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wfgodot
11-29-2011, 02:52 PM
Please continue discussion here on the Penn State/Sandusky/Second Mile case.

Links of interest:

Thread #1

Thread #2

Thread #3

Thread #4


Grand jury presentment (http://www.wgal.com/pdf/29737452/detail.html) (.pdf)

Timeline: Sandusky's double life - in public, a saint; in private, an alleged monster (http://citizensvoice.com/news/timeline-sandusky-s-double-life-in-public-a-saint-in-private-an-alleged-monster-1.1234866#axzz1eHXtpyUN) (citizensvoice.com)

Who knew what about Jerry Sandusky? There were many missed chances to investigate as early as 1995 (http://www.pennlive.com/midstate/index.ssf/2011/11/who_knew_what_about_jerry_sand.html) (pennlive.com)

Remember to show respect for others when engaging in thread dialogue; when replying to the
posts of others - attack the content of the post if need be, but never get personal and attack the poster.

ThoughtFox
11-29-2011, 03:13 PM
Here is a good chart of the victims in the GJ report with a sumary of information for each child:


http://media.mcclatchydc.com/smedia/2011/11/09/11/01/orIvb.La.91.jpg


Click to enlarge.

Bringing over this important document that Reader posted which lists all the victims.

ThoughtFox
11-29-2011, 03:17 PM
Attorney General of PA Press Release:
http://www.attorneygeneral.gov/press.aspx?id=6270

Transcript of Bob Costas Interview:
http://www.newsday.com/sports/media/transcript-jerry-sandusky-s-interview-with-bob-costas-1.3322457

Background on Second Mile:
http://www.centredaily.com/2011/11/21/2994033/charity-ties-widespread.html#storylink=omni_popular#wgt=pop

Jerry's Book "Touched" on Amazon (you can read excerpts):
Amazon.com: Touched: The Jerry Sandusky Story (9781582613574): Jerry Sandusky: Books@@AMEPARAM@@http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41SRnoJKLLL.@@AMEPARAM@@41SRnoJKLLL

Reader
11-29-2011, 03:26 PM
Those witnesses, unfortunately, only saw the act happening to themselves, and a good defense attorney could discredit them. Victim 1 and Victim 6 have the least problems, because there are independent witnesses; it is not the victim's word alone against Sandusky's.

It is a bit like a victim, Mary, saying "Sam punched me in the eye." That was a few years ago, Mary didn't medical treatment, nobody saw her with a black eye, and nobody saw Sam punch Mary. That is a hard case to prove.

Now, if Sam says, at the time, in front of several witnesses, including two police officers, "I punched Mary in the eye," Mary's story suddenly gets a lot stronger. It becomes a question of if the witnesses are telling the truth and if the punch in the eye was a criminal act, and what criminal act it was.

BBM

Right, I think most of us here understand the difference in there being evidence vs. no evidence in these cases and others we've followed.

But how do you know there is no evidence/witness in the additional cases that have been brought forward?

I've read the articles about these new cases, cited as from up to 20 total now to 10 new ones, plus the 2 new cases from the family. Surely the relative/parent of those children would not bring those cases forward without some evidence. As far as I've found the authorities state these new cases for adult victims are still being investigated by the grand jury, and the 2 relative cases by children's protective services. Here are a few of the articles I found on this, nothing new in the last few days:

http://www.newser.com/story/133365/10-new-victims-come-forward-in-penn-state-scandal.html

http://www.myfoxphilly.com/dpp/sports/local_sports/exclusive:-victims-double-in-penn-state-case-110811

http://global.christianpost.com/news/report-10-more-victims-to-come-forward-with-sex-abuse-allegations-against-jerry-sandusky-61965/

Is there a link to verify that there are no witnesses or other evidence in these 10 new adult cases and the 2 new children's cases?

Reader
11-29-2011, 03:34 PM
Attorney General of PA Press Release:
http://www.attorneygeneral.gov/press.aspx?id=6270

Transcript of Bob Costas Interview:
http://www.newsday.com/sports/media/transcript-jerry-sandusky-s-interview-with-bob-costas-1.3322457

Background on Second Mile:
http://www.centredaily.com/2011/11/21/2994033/charity-ties-widespread.html#storylink=omni_popular#wgt=pop

Jerry's Book "Touched" on Amazon (you can read excerpts):
Amazon.com: Touched: The Jerry Sandusky Story (9781582613574): Jerry Sandusky: Books (http://www.amazon.com/Touched-Jerry-Sandusky-Story/dp/1582613575)

Thanks for bringing over these links, ThoughtFox!

I see that one used book by Sandusky is selling for over $249! Reading the few first pages, I could only cringe for the people who wrote all those glowing endorsements for him.

J. J. in Phila
11-29-2011, 03:50 PM
BBM

Right, I think most of us here understand the difference in there being evidence vs. no evidence in these cases and others we've followed.

But how do you know there is no evidence/witness in the additional cases that have been brought forward?





We don't, but we don't know if there are any other witnesses either. These have been "vetted," as it were. They have testified under oath to what they heard or saw. Each witness is also corroborated by other witnesses.

epiphany
11-29-2011, 03:53 PM
One question: Is Sandusky ankle-monitored yet? If not, why not? You can rest-assured, those without power and connections, would be ankle-monitored. Two systems of treatment and justice alive and thriving.

Pensfan
11-29-2011, 05:07 PM
Some states have a mandatory 25 year sentence for child sexual assault. Other states don’t have any mandatory sentence for child sexual assaults. Pennsylvania has a mandatory sentence of 10 years for sexual assault of a child under 16, 25 years for a second offense, and life imprisonment for a 3rd offense.
http://ebookbrowse.com/ncsls-jessicas-law-summary-pdf-d20221302

Pensfan
11-29-2011, 05:15 PM
Thanks for bringing over these links, ThoughtFox!

I see that one used book by Sandusky is selling for over $249! Reading the few first pages, I could only cringe for the people who wrote all those glowing endorsements for him.
Shocking! Blech. I checked elsewhere and found that it is for sale for $16.95. The comments under that used book for $249 on Amazon are scorching.
http://search.barnesandnoble.com/w/touched-jerry-sandusky/1003980854

Reader
11-29-2011, 05:25 PM
One question: Is Sandusky ankle-monitored yet? If not, why not? You can rest-assured, those without power and connections, would be ankle-monitored. Two systems of treatment and justice alive and thriving.

True that...but even his own lawyer admits it may change soon:

Sandusky lawyer: High bail would be tough to make [dated 11/22]

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-201_162-57329809/sandusky-lawyer-high-bail-would-be-tough-to-make/?tag=cbsnewsMainColumnArea

EXcerpts:

His attorney, Joe Amendola, told ABC's "Good Morning America" on Tuesday that he was worried there may soon be new criminal allegations against his client.

"My concern is, if they bring new charges based upon new people coming forward, that bail's going to be set and he's going to wind up in jail," said Amendola, who has not returned multiple phone messages from The Associated Press seeking comment.
-------

Prosecutors "don't have to start all over," said veteran Lemoyne defense attorney Bill Costopoulos, who's not involved in the case. "The additional counts would result in another arrest, another bail piece, another preliminary hearing date being set."
------

Also Tuesday, Sandusky's preliminary hearing was rescheduled for Dec. 13 at the Centre County Courthouse in Bellefonte. It will be handled by an out-of-county jurist, Westmoreland County Senior District Judge Robert E. Scott.
--------

"The more charges, the more serious it becomes, and of course I've heard public outcry that his bail is unsecured and it's too low," said Tunkhannock defense attorney Gerald Grimaud, who isn't involved in the case. "Any new judge or district magistrate is not tone deaf. I'm sure they're reading things in the news media and watching things on TV like everybody else."

SuziQ
11-30-2011, 01:16 AM
All Six Victims ID'd in Child Sex Abuse Case Expected to Testify Against Ex-Penn State Coach

Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/us/2011/11/29/all-identified-sandusky-victims-to-testify-lawyer-says/#ixzz1fA9cfUhP

(snip)
All of the alleged victims identified in the child sex charges against disgraced ex-Penn State coach Jerry Sandusky are expected to testify next month in open court, a lawyer for one of the victims told FoxNews.com, despite claims by Sandusky's defense team that some of the victims would recant.

Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/us/2011/11/29/all-identified-sandusky-victims-to-testify-lawyer-says/#ixzz1fA9nXq1S

J. J. in Phila
11-30-2011, 01:27 AM
All Six Victims ID'd in Child Sex Abuse Case Expected to Testify Against Ex-Penn State Coach

Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/us/2011/11/29/all-identified-sandusky-victims-to-testify-lawyer-says/#ixzz1fA9cfUhP

(snip)
All of the alleged victims identified in the child sex charges against disgraced ex-Penn State coach Jerry Sandusky are expected to testify next month in open court, a lawyer for one of the victims told FoxNews.com, despite claims by Sandusky's defense team that some of the victims would recant.

Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/us/2011/11/29/all-identified-sandusky-victims-to-testify-lawyer-says/#ixzz1fA9nXq1S

I'm thinking plea bargain, and Sandusky doesn't have a lot of wiggle room.

azwriter
11-30-2011, 02:00 AM
One question: Is Sandusky ankle-monitored yet? If not, why not? You can rest-assured, those without power and connections, would be ankle-monitored. Two systems of treatment and justice alive and thriving.

epiphany, thanks for this post and your observation. The real problem is that this has been the case concerning Jerry Sandusky behavior and the officials at Penn State for years. Above all, this fact makes me so angry. How many boys could have been "saved" from this coach if only someone stepped up ?
just my O

BigCat
11-30-2011, 02:03 AM
I'm thinking plea bargain, and Sandusky doesn't have a lot of wiggle room.

Do you have a guess on the length of the sentence?

Concerned Papa
11-30-2011, 02:15 AM
Do you have a guess on the length of the sentence?

One minute less than the rest of his natural life would be an injustice.

J. J. in Phila
11-30-2011, 02:28 AM
Do you have a guess on the length of the sentence?

Probably not life, technically. I'd guess at least one felony.

If the case falls apart, 5-9 years, out in 3-5. If it doesn't 20 years, out in 9-12.

That is just a guess. As I've said, unless Victim 8 steps forward, with evidence he is Victim 8, that charge might be dropped.

Concerned Papa
11-30-2011, 02:39 AM
I'm thinking plea bargain, and Sandusky doesn't have a lot of wiggle room.

IMO, there's more than a few hoping for a quick plea bargain.


Barry Switzer on Penn State scandal: 'Everyone on that staff had to have known'

“Having been in this profession a long time and knowing how close coaching staffs are, I knew that this was a secret that was kept secret. Everyone on that staff had to have known”

Switzer added that others outside the Penn State program had to have known as well.

“You think that a 13-year assistant ... hasn’t told someone else? His wife? His father? People knew. The community knew” Switzer said.

http://aol.sportingnews.com/ncaa-football/story/2011-11-10/barry-switzer-on-penn-state-scandal-everyone-on-that-staff-had-to-have-known

Pensfan
11-30-2011, 02:49 AM
Joe Pa hated Barry and Barry hated Joe Pa. The war between them started in 1985 when Joe Paterno said he would never leave the NCAA to coaches like Barry Switzer.
http://www.newson6.com/global/story.asp?s=10550339

Montjoy
11-30-2011, 04:26 AM
Joe Pa hated Barry and Barry hated Joe Pa.


I guess I'm not sure about how Joe Pa's capacity for hatred changes anything here.

eta: I am also unsure about whether the awfulness of other non-PSU coaches matters.

ThoughtFox
11-30-2011, 04:33 AM
One question: Is Sandusky ankle-monitored yet? If not, why not? You can rest-assured, those without power and connections, would be ankle-monitored. Two systems of treatment and justice alive and thriving.

For the new charges and victims he will have a different judge, and then he will get a real bail and maybe even some jail time.

Concerned Papa
11-30-2011, 06:37 AM
I guess I'm not sure about how Joe Pa's capacity for hatred changes anything here.

eta: I am also unsure about whether the awfulness of other non-PSU coaches matters.

It changes nothing.

It has no bearing on the present situation involving a child rapist and those who knew, yet failed to protect the children. IMO, it has no more relevance than when the National Championship game rolled around that same 1985 season, Switzer's Oklahoma Sooners won their sixth national title, beating Penn State, 25-10.


Yes, those were ugly, awful times in Norman that forced Switzer out the door and embarrassed an entire state. But the details of what happened then don't make your skin crawl like the never ending news stream flowing these days from Happy Valley.

Ironically, it was Paterno who took aim at Switzer nearly three decades ago. He proclaimed that he wouldn't retire and “leave college football to the Jackie Sherrills and Barry Switzers of the world.” He quickly apologized to Switzer, and the two became friends in the years that followed.

http://newsok.com/penn-state-tragedy-barry-switzer-says-joe-paterno-had-to-go/article/3621872

woodville
11-30-2011, 08:46 AM
Paterno wrote the forward in Switzer's Book Bootlegger's Boy published in 1990.

ohiogirl
11-30-2011, 09:29 AM
You know, some of the new victims that have come forth may be the unidentified victims from the GJ report. Just sayin..

J. J. in Phila
11-30-2011, 09:47 AM
You know, some of the new victims that have come forth may be the unidentified victims from the GJ report. Just sayin..

Possibly, but they have not indicated that a specific victim came forward.

waltzingmatilda
11-30-2011, 11:08 AM
I guess if anything good is to become of JS's alleged crimes, creating awareness and open dialogue about pedophiles, child molesters, etc. would be it!

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2067929/Mommy-babysitter-doing-How-Penn-State-abuse-scandal-led-arrest-alleged-serial-paedophile.html

I cannot express enough admiration for JS's victims for speaking out. Their being proactive has positively made parents more aware about discussing a formerly taboo subject with their children. JMO

wm

Concerned Papa
11-30-2011, 11:31 AM
Joe Pa hated Barry and Barry hated Joe Pa. The war between them started in 1985 when Joe Paterno said he would never leave the NCAA to coaches like Barry Switzer.

http://www.newson6.com/global/story.asp?s=10550339

I don't know about a "war", but Paterno certainly did say that:


Ironically, it was Paterno who took aim at Switzer nearly three decades ago. He proclaimed that he wouldn't retire and “leave college football to the Jackie Sherrills and Barry Switzers of the world.”

http://newsok.com/penn-state-tragedy-barry-switzer-says-joe-paterno-had-to-go/article/3621872

It would seem to be the height of irony that 14 years later, Joe Paterno appears to have said more or less the same thing to his OWN Defensive Cooridinator:


Sandusky spurned opportunities for head coaching positions, including one with the University of Maryland in 1991, in the hope of succeeding Paterno as head coach at Penn State.

http://www.enotes.com/topic/Jerry_Sandusky


According to the grand jury report, one of the victims testified that Paterno summoned Sandusky to his office in May 1999 and "told Sandusky he would not be the next head coach at Penn State."

http://www.cnn.com/2011/11/12/us/penn-state-scandal/index.html

MaryNo
11-30-2011, 11:46 AM
You're not alone in your concerns!

The news agencies aren't letting us know where he is, either. But if Casey Anthony, Lindsay Lohan, etc. pass gas it's "Breaking News".

It seems Dec. 13th is the earliest date that we can hope for regarding his being remanded/monitored. It can't come soon enough.


One question: Is Sandusky ankle-monitored yet? If not, why not? You can rest-assured, those without power and connections, would be ankle-monitored. Two systems of treatment and justice alive and thriving.

concentric
11-30-2011, 12:23 PM
I guess if anything good is to become of JS's alleged crimes, creating awareness and open dialogue about pedophiles, child molesters, etc. would be it!

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2067929/Mommy-babysitter-doing-How-Penn-State-abuse-scandal-led-arrest-alleged-serial-paedophile.html

I cannot express enough admiration for JS's victims for speaking out. Their being proactive has positively made parents more aware about discussing a formerly taboo subject with their children. JMO

wm
-------------
Thank you for that post. My experience has been that few persons want to talk these matters. If you attempt to talk about it, they shut you down.

And, this is what the pervs. want. They want people to dismiss it, which will allow them to continue their deception.

Dr.Fessel
11-30-2011, 12:52 PM
Alleged sex abuse victim files suit against Jerry Sandusky, Penn State and Second Mile


A civil lawsuit is being filed on behalf of a man who claims to be a victim of sexual assault by Jerry Sandusky, a former Penn State assistant football coach. Identified in the suite as John Doe, the man's alleged abuse was not included in the report from the grand jury that investigated Sandusky, who was charged with assaulting eight boys over 15 years.



The complaint, to be filed today in Philadelphia County Court of Common Pleas, names Penn State University, The Second Mile and Sandusky as defendants. The man's attorneys are Jeff Anderson and Marci Hamilton.......................


The man released this statement:

"I am the man in this lawsuit and I’m writing this statement and taking this action because I don’t want other kids to be hurt and abused by Jerry Sandusky or anybody like Penn State to allow people like him to do it—rape kids! I never told anybody what he did to me over 100 times at all kinds of places until the newspapers reported that he had abused other kids and the people at Penn State and Second Mile didn’t do the things they should have to protect me and the other kids. I am hurting and have been for a long time because of what happened but feel now even more tormented that I have learned of so many other kids were abused after me. Now that I have told and done something about it I am feeling better and going to get help and work with the police. I want other people who have been hurt to know they can come forward and get help and help protect others in the future."

In the suit, the man claims that Sandusky threatened to harm him and his family if he told authorities about the assaults.


http://www.pennlive.com/midstate/index.ssf/2011/11/alleged_sex_abuse_victim_files.html

Pensfan
11-30-2011, 12:55 PM
It changes nothing.

It has no bearing on the present situation involving a child rapist and those who knew, yet failed to protect the children. IMO, it has no more relevance than when the National Championship game rolled around that same 1985 season, Switzer's Oklahoma Sooners won their sixth national title, beating Penn State, 25-10.
I will spell out what was in the last article I posted.

There were many females that were raped in the Bud Wilkerson football building on OU's main campus by OU football players when Switzer was coach. One of the women I read about was under 16. Some rapes were prosecuted. Some were not. Some women never reported the rapes because they thought nothing would happen and they were very afraid. Please look it up.

Using Barry Switzer's quote to try to prove that everyone must have known about that pedo ex-employee of Penn State is like using John Dillinger to implicate everyone with an association to Jesse James.

In addition, there are hundreds of extremely serious crimes that were committed in the football program when Switzer was coach. To those who have read anything about Switzer, he makes Joe Pa look like Santa Claus. His word is not believable on anything, IMO. (One of my degrees is from OU and I graduated at the time when OU won many national championships.)

SuziQ
11-30-2011, 12:59 PM
Read the complaint (John Doe A)
http://media.pennlive.com/midstate_impact/other/John%20Doe%20A%20Complaint.pdf

ThoughtFox
11-30-2011, 01:07 PM
The abuse alleged in the lawsuit began two years before the earliest incident alleged in a state grand jury presentment charging Sandusky with 40 counts of child sexual abuse and focuses on institutional concealment that led to the abuse. It alleges negligence, negligent misrepresentation, intentional misrepresentation and conspiracy to endanger children.

The suit also describes how Sandusky groomed the victim, who he met through The Second Mile, by telling him he was a promising athlete and buying him athletic equipment and taking him to sporting events, a pattern similar to that described in the grand jury presentment.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/breaking/mc-sandusky-penn-state-lawsuit-20111130,0,6509988.story

Pensfan
11-30-2011, 01:24 PM
In the suit, the man claims that Sandusky threatened to harm him and his family if he told authorities about the assaults.
http://www.pennlive.com/midstate/index.ssf/2011/11/alleged_sex_abuse_victim_files.html
respectfully shortened
.......and Sandusky just hired a private investigator to locate and prove these (now) men were not raped. :shiver:

Dr.Fessel
11-30-2011, 01:33 PM
respectfully shortened
.......and Sandusky just hired a private investigator to locate and prove these (now) men were not raped. :shiver:
You can bet Penn State and Second Mile have done the same thing.IMO

Pensfan
11-30-2011, 01:39 PM
You can bet Penn State and Second Mile have done the same thing.IMO
Yes, but Sandusky physically threatened them.

Concerned Papa
11-30-2011, 01:53 PM
Alleged sex abuse victim files suit against Jerry Sandusky, Penn State and Second Mile


A civil lawsuit is being filed on behalf of a man who claims to be a victim of sexual assault by Jerry Sandusky, a former Penn State assistant football coach. Identified in the suite as John Doe, the man's alleged abuse was not included in the report from the grand jury that investigated Sandusky, who was charged with assaulting eight boys over 15 years.



The complaint, to be filed today in Philadelphia County Court of Common Pleas, names Penn State University, The Second Mile and Sandusky as defendants. The man's attorneys are Jeff Anderson and Marci Hamilton.......................


The man released this statement:

"I am the man in this lawsuit and I’m writing this statement and taking this action because I don’t want other kids to be hurt and abused by Jerry Sandusky or anybody like Penn State to allow people like him to do it—rape kids! I never told anybody what he did to me over 100 times at all kinds of places until the newspapers reported that he had abused other kids and the people at Penn State and Second Mile didn’t do the things they should have to protect me and the other kids. I am hurting and have been for a long time because of what happened but feel now even more tormented that I have learned of so many other kids were abused after me. Now that I have told and done something about it I am feeling better and going to get help and work with the police. I want other people who have been hurt to know they can come forward and get help and help protect others in the future."

In the suit, the man claims that Sandusky threatened to harm him and his family if he told authorities about the assaults.


http://www.pennlive.com/midstate/index.ssf/2011/11/alleged_sex_abuse_victim_files.html

That is a chilling document to read, and is likely to be only the first of many.

Sandusky's lawyer can no longer make this claim:


Sandusky's lawyer also claims, "They have other people who are saying they saw something, but they don't have actual people saying, ‘This is what Jerry did to me.'"

http://jezebel.com/5860425/alleged-victim-says-sanduskys-denial-made-him-more-determined-to-testify

This victim is demanding to be able to tell a jury "This is what Jerry did to me".

Emeralgem
11-30-2011, 01:59 PM
Read the complaint (John Doe A)
http://media.pennlive.com/midstate_impact/other/John%20Doe%20A%20Complaint.pdf

So the molestation of this young man started in 1992... am I correct?


I'm somewhat confused as to WHY the law suit is claiming Sandusky was molesting young boys back in the 70's.. Not that I don't believe that to be the case, but are there any other victims claiming he molested them back in the 70's...

Also, IF this young man was not part of the GJ's list of victims and there are eight listed will he be added to the GJ list? How does that work?

ETA.. BBM..Listed under... FACTS # 17- Page 6.

Pensfan
11-30-2011, 02:18 PM
Here is a creepy thought. Sandusky may have personal assets to make even a huge bail. One article stated that Sandusky had lived in the same house/neighborhood for decades. The mortgage is likely paid except for the recent $25,000 note he took out when this year likely for his attorney's retainer. Although his home appears modest in its photo, mapquest shows that it sits approx. 8-9 blocks from the State College campus which has thousands of employees and students. Its location dramatically raises its value.

Sandusky also has retirement income coming in from Penn State and perhaps his jobs before Penn State. In addition, after he retired by coaching, he was paid by Second Mile almost $500,000. (I can't find what he made from Second Mile before this time.) With these new charges, hopefully he will be jailed and held without bond because he may have the assets to pay a large one.
http://www.businessinsider.com/jerry-sandusky-salary-2011-11

Pensfan
11-30-2011, 02:29 PM
So the molestation of this young man started in 1992... am I correct?
I'm somewhat confused as to WHY the law suit is claiming Sandusky was molesting young boys back in the 70's.. Not that I don't believe that to be the case, but are their any other victims claiming he molested them back in the
70's...

Also, IF this young man was not part of the GJ's list of victims and there are eight listed will he be added to the GJ list? How does that work?
The article below states there is one victim that says the abuse started back in the 1970s. Other articles state there may be abuse that started in the 1970s.
http://www.politicaljack.com/forums/showthread.php?7296-Jerry-Sandusky-interview-prompts-long-ago-victims-to-contact-lawyer

The Patriot News was the first to report that victims went back to the 1970s.
"One of them is a man in his 30s who talked to police earlier this week. He will probably end up testifying before the grand jury, Andreozzi said. At least one has alleged abuse dating back to the 1970s."
The victim in his 30s clearly can't be the victim from the 1970s. I think this post shows that Andreozzi knows of a victim who was molested in the 1970s.
http://www.pennlive.com/midstate/index.ssf/2011/11/jerry_sanduskys_victim_four_te.html

Emeralgem
11-30-2011, 02:48 PM
The article below states there is one victim that says the abuse started back in the 1970s. Other articles state there may be abuse that started in the 1970s.
http://www.politicaljack.com/forums/showthread.php?7296-Jerry-Sandusky-interview-prompts-long-ago-victims-to-contact-lawyer

The Patriot News was the first to report that victims went back to the 1970s.
"One of them is a man in his 30s who talked to police earlier this week. He will probably end up testifying before the grand jury, Andreozzi said. At least one has alleged abuse dating back to the 1970s."
The victim in his 30s clearly can't be the victim from the 1970s. I think this post shows that Andreozzi knows of a victim who was molested in the 1970s.
http://www.pennlive.com/midstate/index.ssf/2011/11/jerry_sanduskys_victim_four_te.html

Thanks Pensfan.. Apparently I missed that tidbit of information.. Again, thanks for the link and for answering my question.

MaryNo
11-30-2011, 03:13 PM
Thank you!

He had a pretty good thing going for himself, didn't he? And in an instant it's all going to be gone. What an amazingly destructive human being he is. Everything he "touched" ... wow, just wow!

Hopefully, this bail will be a "no bail", as he's just too dangerous to be wandering around.


Here is a creepy thought. Sandusky may have personal assets to make even a huge bail. One article stated that Sandusky had lived in the same house/neighborhood for decades. The mortgage is likely paid except for the recent $25,000 note he took out when this year likely for his attorney's retainer. Although his home appears modest in its photo, mapquest shows that it sits approx. 8-9 blocks from the State College campus which has thousands of employees and students. Its location dramatically raises its value.

Sandusky also has retirement income coming in from Penn State and perhaps his jobs before Penn State. In addition, after he retired by coaching, he was paid by Second Mile almost $500,000. (I can't find what he made from Second Mile before this time.) With these new charges, hopefully he will be jailed and held without bond because he may have the assets to pay a large one.
http://www.businessinsider.com/jerry-sandusky-salary-2011-11

BigCat
11-30-2011, 05:50 PM
Paterno wrote the forward in Switzer's Book Bootlegger's Boy published in 1990.

Thanks for point that out. Here's an excerpt from Paterno's foreward:


You might wonder why I am writing a foreward to a book written by Barry Switzer because you might believe that Barry and I have different, contrary perceptions as to what college football should be, what position it should occupy in university life and in the education of the people who play at Division IA schools. To a degree, the query is germane. I do disagree with Barry about many things. Our life-styles and values are dramatically different, which will become understandable after you learn of his experiences growing up as a bootlegger's son.

So why am I doing this for Barry Switzer? Because Barry has many qualities I admire: loyalty, lack of hypocrisy, a warmth for young people and friends, a deep and honest concern for black athletes, a zest for life, and, most of all, a devotion to his children and unswerving appreciation and respect for their mother. As a coach, I admire his competence, hard work, and his competitive fire. Basically, above all, I'm doing this because Barry is a friend.

So, unsurprisingly, Paterno places friendship and loyalty above ethical behavior in his hierarchy of values.

Later on Paterno writes:


This is an important book because it shows a side of big-time college football that, to be frank with you, I naively didn't really believe existed.

I don't know what to make of that statement. Perhaps Paterno created a narcissistic "false self", a holier-than-thou image of himself that he truly believed existed. The need to maintain that false persona would be another incentive to cover-up anything that could tarnish that image and expose his true self, JMO. It's hard for me to believe that the Brooklyn born and raised Paterno is as naive as he portrays himself.

Concerned Papa
11-30-2011, 06:29 PM
The terminology of "not presently named as defendants" is likely causing more than a small amount of concern among certain individuals within these organizations, both past and present.

http://i941.photobucket.com/albums/ad257/Papa813_bucket/LawsuitA.jpg

http://i941.photobucket.com/albums/ad257/Papa813_bucket/LawsuitB.jpg

ynotdivein
11-30-2011, 06:40 PM
"The collective silence of various individuals in addition to the Defendants were (sic) overt acts committed in pursuance of the common purpose to endanger the welfare of children."

Wow.

FloatingStar
11-30-2011, 08:32 PM
The terminology of "not presently named as defendants" is likely causing more than a small amount of concern among certain individuals within these organizations, both past and present.

Yes and the recent civil suit (see OCR'd attachment) indicates just who some of those "not presently named" might be:

"Second Mile’s strong links to Penn State, its fans and alumni, have allowed it to grow into the most visible non-profit for at-risk youth in central Pennsylvania. Penn State voluntarily entered into a social and financial relationship with Defendant Second Mile and its founder, Defendant Sandusky. Head football coach Joe Paterno actively participated in fundraising for the organization. Second Mile board members have been top donors to the charity and to Perm State. Second Mile Board members have received lucrative contracts from Penn State University for building projects. Penn State has benefited from its affiliation with the Second Mile by reaping the public relations rewards of close ties to and participation, such as internships for Penn State football players, with a local charitable organization."

Concerned Papa
11-30-2011, 09:22 PM
What does this make now, 3 victims saying he took them across state lines to bowl games?

http://i941.photobucket.com/albums/ad257/Papa813_bucket/LawsuitC.jpg

I don't see how the Feds can stay out of this.

J. J. in Phila
11-30-2011, 09:31 PM
What does this make now, 3 victims saying he took them across state lines to bowl games?

http://i941.photobucket.com/albums/ad257/Papa813_bucket/LawsuitC.jpg

I don't see how the Feds can stay out of this.

They might let the locals handle it, which could lead to harsher penalties.

Concerned Papa
11-30-2011, 09:38 PM
I don't know what to make of this, but it's hard to read it and not remember that a District Attorney involved with an investigation of the maker of this threat, vanished from the face of this earth.

http://i941.photobucket.com/albums/ad257/Papa813_bucket/LawsuitC-1.jpg

BigCat
11-30-2011, 10:07 PM
They might let the locals handle it, which could lead to harsher penalties.

Penn State played in the Fiesta Bowl during the mid '90s (Tempe, AZ is Joe Arpaio country). Penn State made a trip to California for the Rose Bowl after the 1994 season. Mostly, though, Penn State traveled to bowls in Florida. I'm not so sure local officials in Florida bowl cities would would want to do anything that would potentially alienate Penn State football fans.

Reader
11-30-2011, 10:30 PM
http://www.myfoxtampabay.com/dpps/news/sandusky-had-dinner-with-alleged-victims-dpgonc-20111130-to-_16180511

(NewsCore) - The attorney for accused child molester Jerry Sandusky said Wednesday that four of the alleged victims in the case have had voluntary contact with the former Penn State defensive coordinator in recent years, The Patriot-News reported.

Attorney Joe Amendola told the paper that Victim 2 -- who according to the grand jury report was raped in a Penn State locker room shower by Sandusky in 2002 -- had dinner with Sandusky and his wife, Dottie, last summer.

Amendola claimed that a male identified as Victim 6 in the grand jury report was also at the dinner.

Amendola, as he has said previously, maintained that Victim 2 will defend Sandusky against the allegations.

"He sat here with his mother and brother and said he was not a victim," Amendola said.
----------

Amendola told The Patriot-News that there have been no plea negotiations to this point and that Sandusky still wishes to defend himself against all of the accusations.

"People who maintain innocence sometimes plead guilty because of the overwhelming evidence against them," he said. "So there's a lot of reasons why people decide to do certain things. He wants to defend [himself], and I'm trying to give him that opportunity."

J. J. in Phila
11-30-2011, 10:50 PM
http://www.myfoxtampabay.com/dpps/news/sandusky-had-dinner-with-alleged-victims-dpgonc-20111130-to-_16180511

(NewsCore) - The attorney for accused child molester Jerry Sandusky said Wednesday that four of the alleged victims in the case have had voluntary contact with the former Penn State defensive coordinator in recent years, The Patriot-News reported.

Attorney Joe Amendola told the paper that Victim 2 -- who according to the grand jury report was raped in a Penn State locker room shower by Sandusky in 2002 -- had dinner with Sandusky and his wife, Dottie, last summer.

Amendola claimed that a male identified as Victim 6 in the grand jury report was also at the dinner.

Amendola, as he has said previously, maintained that Victim 2 will defend Sandusky against the allegations.

"He sat here with his mother and brother and said he was not a victim," Amendola said.
----------

Amendola told The Patriot-News that there have been no plea negotiations to this point and that Sandusky still wishes to defend himself against all of the accusations.

"People who maintain innocence sometimes plead guilty because of the overwhelming evidence against them," he said. "So there's a lot of reasons why people decide to do certain things. He wants to defend [himself], and I'm trying to give him that opportunity."

In the case of Victim 6, he does not have to be a victim, if it is the "Open Lewdness" section. :) Victim 6 never claimed rape.

Amendola will have to prove that really was Victim 2.

Salem
11-30-2011, 11:30 PM
http://www.myfoxtampabay.com/dpps/news/sandusky-had-dinner-with-alleged-victims-dpgonc-20111130-to-_16180511

Amendola, as he has said previously, maintained that Victim 2 will defend Sandusky against the allegations.
"He sat here with his mother and brother and said he was not a victim," Amendola said.

Okay -- if this is true, I want to see charges against Sandusky and his lawyer for tampering with witnesses and victims.

How dare they have these boys to the Sandusky house and then quiz them about what happened?????:furious::furious::furious: How dare they!

I hope the DA sees this article and acts accordingly and that Sandusky's bail or own recognize or whatever is pulled and he has to sit in jail until trial. He is a danger to these kids and all kids.

:furious::furious::furious::furious::furious:

Reader
11-30-2011, 11:38 PM
In the case of Victim 6, he does not have to be a victim, if it is the "Open Lewdness" section. :) Victim 6 never claimed rape.

Amendola will have to prove that really was Victim 2.

Thanks, and remember Victim 6 is the one whose mother reported and Sandusky was interviewed by the university and state officials and admitted what he'd done and said he wouldn't do it again.

The lawyer only knows what he is being told right now. I think with the new filing today and what comes out on Dec.13 will change things a bit. Amemdola didn't really sound too confident to me.

Reader
11-30-2011, 11:47 PM
http://www.myfoxtampabay.com/dpps/news/sandusky-had-dinner-with-alleged-victims-dpgonc-20111130-to-_16180511

Amendola, as he has said previously, maintained that Victim 2 will defend Sandusky against the allegations.
"He sat here with his mother and brother and said he was not a victim," Amendola said.

Okay -- if this is true, I want to see charges against Sandusky and his lawyer for tampering with witnesses and victims.

How dare they have these boys to the Sandusky house and then quiz them about what happened?????:furious::furious::furious: How dare they!

I hope the DA sees this article and acts accordingly and that Sandusky's bail or own recognize or whatever is pulled and he has to sit in jail until trial. He is a danger to these kids and all kids.

:furious::furious::furious::furious::furious:

Exactly, Salem! I was wondering about witness tampering also...although it says the dinner was last summer with JS and his wife, it would still have been during the grand jury proceedings and they were obviously trying to get the victims to recant.

Reader
12-01-2011, 01:02 AM
http://www.usatoday.com/sports/college/football/bigten/story/2011-11-30/penn-state-officials-hear-students-concerns/51517248/1

STATE COLLEGE, Pa. – About an hour into a special town hall meeting with Penn State students and administrators Wednesday night, a woman stood up with tears in her eyes.

She didn't want to know about the financial or institutional impacts of the sex abuse scandal that rocked the school. She had a question for President Rodney Erickson about dealing with the aftermath.

"I feel shame. What do I do with these feelings?" she said.

A few moments of silence in the room was quickly followed by applause before Vice President for Commonwealth Campuses, Madlyn Hanes offered her advice.
-------

"We're here to listen and reassure members of the Penn State community that we will not let the actions of one individual determine who we are," Erickson said. "We're here to talk about going forward, how we go forward to learn from where we've been, how to be a better university and a stronger university."

Erickson confirmed that fired football coach Joe Paterno's name would not be removed from the library and his statue next to Beaver Stadium would not be taken down.

More at link...

J. J. in Phila
12-01-2011, 01:12 AM
Thanks, and remember Victim 6 is the one whose mother reported and Sandusky was interviewed by the university and state officials and admitted what he'd done and said he wouldn't do it again.

The lawyer only knows what he is being told right now. I think with the new filing today and what comes out on Dec.13 will change things a bit. Amemdola didn't really sound too confident to me.

With Victim 6, the judge will basically say (and I'm paraphrasing, obviously):

You don't have to prove arousal. You don't have to prove a sexual purpose. You don't have to prove there were genitals touching. You just have to prove that at some point in the encounter, the defendant committed an act "likely to be observed by others who would be affronted or alarmed." You don't even have to prove anyone else actually saw it.

http://law.onecle.com/pennsylvania/crimes-and-offenses/00.059.001.000.html

There is a lot of case law on it, even at the appellate level, and the definition is quite broad. There were arrests for skinny dipping, acting like you were, er, enjoying yourself, even if they couldn't prove you were.

Civilly, though not criminally, there is even a finding that men in thongs in a human period would meet that definition. http://www.aclu.org/free-speech/aclu-defends-six-men-arrested-during-protest-president-bush-rally

Pensfan
12-01-2011, 01:17 AM
http://www.myfoxtampabay.com/dpps/news/sandusky-had-dinner-with-alleged-victims-dpgonc-20111130-to-_16180511

(NewsCore) - The attorney for accused child molester Jerry Sandusky said Wednesday that four of the alleged victims in the case have had voluntary contact with the former Penn State defensive coordinator in recent years, The Patriot-News reported.

Attorney Joe Amendola told the paper that Victim 2 -- who according to the grand jury report was raped in a Penn State locker room shower by Sandusky in 2002 -- had dinner with Sandusky and his wife, Dottie, last summer.

Amendola claimed that a male identified as Victim 6 in the grand jury report was also at the dinner.

Amendola, as he has said previously, maintained that Victim 2 will defend Sandusky against the allegations.

"He sat here with his mother and brother and said he was not a victim," Amendola said.
----------

Amendola told The Patriot-News that there have been no plea negotiations to this point and that Sandusky still wishes to defend himself against all of the accusations.

"People who maintain innocence sometimes plead guilty because of the overwhelming evidence against them," he said. "So there's a lot of reasons why people decide to do certain things. He wants to defend [himself], and I'm trying to give him that opportunity."
Holy crap! He had them at his house during the grand jury investigation?

This is a class C felony. What could that get him in PA?
http://law.justia.com/codes/connecticut/2005/title53a/sec53a-151.html

Pensfan
12-01-2011, 01:35 AM
The Class C felony definition of the Unites States says that a person charged with Class C felony can have prison sentence of more than one year. But the sentence cannot exceed more than 10 years.

The Class C felony punishment is not as serious as its counterparts. The Class C felony penalty can be quite ruthless if the offender has already had prior charges of Class C felony. The Class C felony includes punishment for crimes such as drunk driving, robbery, second degree sexual assault, arson, vehicular homicide, intoxication, second degree rape and sexual offense, assault with deadly weapon with intent to kill inflicting serious injury, adulterated food, drugs, intent to cause serious injury or death, kidnapping in the first degree, embezzlements, etc.
http://www.courtregistry.org/criminal_court_records/felonies/felony_class/class_c_felony_records.html

Reader
12-01-2011, 01:36 AM
With Victim 6, the judge will basically say (and I'm paraphrasing, obviously):

You don't have to prove arousal. You don't have to prove a sexual purpose. You don't have to prove there were genitals touching. You just have to prove that at some point in the encounter, the defendant committed an act "likely to be observed by others who would be affronted or alarmed." You don't even have to prove anyone else actually saw it.

http://law.onecle.com/pennsylvania/crimes-and-offenses/00.059.001.000.html

There is a lot of case law on it, even at the appellate level, and the definition is quite broad. There were arrests for skinny dipping, acting like you were, er, enjoying yourself, even if they couldn't prove you were.

Civilly, though not criminally, there is even a finding that men in thongs in a human period would meet that definition. http://www.aclu.org/free-speech/aclu-defends-six-men-arrested-during-protest-president-bush-rally

That's good to know about victim 6 and it's even on record that he already admitted it!

On the ACLU case, did you mean "pyramid"? lol ....I remember when that happened...wonder if they won that case?

(JK with ya)

J. J. in Phila
12-01-2011, 01:41 AM
And Amendola says "Let's Make a Deal," maybe.

http://www.pennlive.com/midstate/index.ssf/2011/11/patriot-news_exclusive_jerry_s.html

J. J. in Phila
12-01-2011, 01:45 AM
That's good to know about victim 6 and it's even on record that he already admitted it!

On the ACLU case, did you mean "pyramid"? lol ....I remember when that happened...wonder if they won that case?

(JK with ya)

The DA dropped the charges, but they sued civilly, in Federal Court. The judge ruled against them, saying that they were properly arrested for open lewdness.

Reader
12-01-2011, 01:50 AM
Holy crap! He had them at his house during the grand jury investigation?

This is a class C felony. What could that get him in PA?
http://law.justia.com/codes/connecticut/2005/title53a/sec53a-151.html

It was in the GJ report that JS and his wife both tried to contact at least one victim and now the lawyer is openly talking about them having two of the victims to dinner during the GJ to discuss their cases, so why wasn't he charged with tampering?

Is a GJ treated differently than a trial, regarding witness contacts?

Reader
12-01-2011, 02:04 AM
And Amendola says "Let's Make a Deal," maybe.

http://www.pennlive.com/midstate/index.ssf/2011/11/patriot-news_exclusive_jerry_s.html

We can only hope this happens and these victims are not re-abused...from your link:

Justine Andronici, a victims’ rights attorney working with Shubin on the case, said, "These statements play on the victims’ worst fears: that if they stand up and tell the truth they will be called liars and victimized again. Pedophiles seek to silence their victims with the threat that no one will believe them if they come forward. Perpetrators of sexual abuse also maintain manipulative, long-term contact with their victims for the very purpose of continuing to silence them."

Talina
12-01-2011, 02:17 AM
Defense lawyer Joseph Amendola told CNN contributor Sara Ganim that the young man, who was described in a grand jury report as being about 10 years old in March 2002, was in Amendola's office several weeks ago and said he believed he was the boy called "Victim 2."

http://www.cnn.com/2011/11/30/justice/pennsylvania-sandusky-attorney/index.html


Well, color me confused but just what exactly makes this particular person think that it is him being described as Victim #2 but yet says what they say happened, didn't happen? If it's him, what exactly is being described that makes it think they are talking about him but that the sex allegation didn't happen?

If it is him, this didn't happen, what exactly makes him think they are talking about him?

That doesn't even make sense to me. :waitasec:

ETA: something said regarding Victim #2 must make this person supposedly talking to the attorney think they are talking about him but to say, "hey I think that might be me they refer to as Victim #2 but what they say happened, didn't happen". What on earth in the indictment makes him think it is him if what is being described didn't happen to him?

J. J. in Phila
12-01-2011, 02:18 AM
We can only hope this happens and these victims are not re-abused...from your link:



Attorneys like to posture; it is best to ignore them when they do. :)

Amendola is not an idiot; he's actually quite good. He knows that there will be likely a conviction on some of the charges. It is the time that they start engaging in the dance.

Pensfan
12-01-2011, 02:29 AM
If this statement by Amendola is true, then these victims might be like battered women who keep returning to their abusive husband. Stockholm Syndrome is thought to cause paradoxical/opposite responses in some rape victims just like it does in many hostages. Although perverse, Sandusky formed emotional bonds with his victims. This was easy for him to do since he had a lot of practice at ingratiating himself into boys' lives by meeting unmet needs and providing gifts. This warped bond may make it difficult for some of his victims to turn against him (in addition to his threats of physical violence).

Pensfan
12-01-2011, 02:41 AM
Defense lawyer Joseph Amendola told CNN contributor Sara Ganim that the young man, who was described in a grand jury report as being about 10 years old in March 2002, was in Amendola's office several weeks ago and said he believed he was the boy called "Victim 2."

http://www.cnn.com/2011/11/30/justice/pennsylvania-sandusky-attorney/index.html


Well, color me confused but just what exactly makes this particular person think that it is him being described as Victim #2 but yet says what they say happened, didn't happen? If it's him, what exactly is being described that makes it think they are talking about him but that the sex allegation didn't happen?

If it is him, this didn't happen, what exactly makes him think they are talking about him?

That doesn't even make sense to me. :waitasec:

ETA: something said regarding Victim #2 must make this person supposedly talking to the attorney think they are talking about him but to say, "hey I think that might be me they refer to as Victim #2 but what they say happened, didn't happen". What on earth in the indictment makes him think it is him if what is being described didn't happen to him?
In one Patriot-News articles where Amendola is interviewed, he stated that one of the boys was contacted by Penn State authorities for his name and number, but then he was never contacted again. Sandusky also gave his name and number to Curley. This might be why that victim believes that he is Victim #2. Here is where I read this.


"Amendola says both Victim Two and Sandusky deny seeing McQueary. Sandusky says he only found out there was a problem a few days later when Curley called him and said someone had witnessed horsing around that made them uncomfortable.
Sandusky said he gave Curley the boy’s name and phone number, saying he was sure he’d help to clear up the misunderstanding.
Sandusky contacted him and said, ‘You may get a call from someone from Penn State who is going to ask you about what’s going on in the shower, and if you do, it’s OK to tell them what was going on,’ " Amendola said. (This boy was supposedly never contacted again by the DA's office or Penn State officials.)
http://www.pennlive.com/midstate/index.ssf/2011/11/patriot-news_exclusive_jerry_s.html

Pensfan
12-01-2011, 02:55 AM
Huh? Victim #2 WILL defend Jer, but he WON'T testify at his hearing? Why not? It sounds like some of the other Victims may testify, why not #2?

Respectfully shortened-
The prosecutor brings his/her witnesses to testify at the preliminary hearing to convince the judge that there is enough evidence to take the case to trial. If Victim #2 is a hostile witness (towards the prosecution), he won't be called to testify by the prosecutor at the preliminary hearing.

Pensfan
12-01-2011, 03:18 AM
In felony cases in states where the Grand Jury indictment is used to start a criminal proceeding, defendants often waive the preliminary hearing, because the grand jury will make the probable cause determination. However, some defendants request a preliminary hearing because it allows them to gain information about the basis of the prosecution's case.
http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/Preliminary+Hearing


In a case like the one against Mr. Sandusky, which was laid out in a 23-page grand jury presentment, it is likely a preliminary hearing will include testimony from at least some of the eight people identified as victims by the state attorney general's office.
That, Mr. Difenderfer said, is essential to figuring out the defense of the case.
"If they're going to be dynamite witnesses(for the prosecution), I want to know now," he said. "If they're going to crumble, I want to know now."
The idea, Mr. Difenderfer continued, is to have full and thorough cross-examination and try to get the victims to say something inconsistent.
"I'd much rather them be under oath and screw up," he said. "Then we crush them. Even innocent mistakes are points in our favor."
Read more: http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/11327/1191952-454-0.stm?cmpid=psu.xml#ixzz1fGUNfHsF

Pensfan
12-01-2011, 03:37 AM
The new allegations are from TWO of Sandusky's grandchildren.

Sandusky had a private detective investigating the allegations from Victim #1 for 3 years. (Hang in there, Victim #1. Every day Sandusky gets a little closer to prison.)

Reports state that Sandusky recently had his house appraised so he can use it for bail. (I wonder how Sarge feels about living in a cardboard box in her golden years. Jerry's evil will eventually cause her to lose her home.)
http://www.wjactv.com/news/news/sanduskys-attorney-reacts-lawsuit/nFqnT/

Concerned Papa
12-01-2011, 09:49 AM
Respectfully shortened-
The prosecutor brings his/her witnesses to testify at the preliminary hearing to convince the judge that there is enough evidence to take the case to trial. If Victim #2 is a hostile witness (towards the prosecution), he won't be called to testify by the prosecutor at the preliminary hearing.

OK, Thanks for that information. I took the post down.

At the very least, it would seem that if this newest victim testifies, possibly new charges could be added thereby changing this absurd bond that has Sandusky still roaming the streets.

Reader
12-01-2011, 11:02 AM
http://abcnews.go.com/Sports/wireStory/give-penn-st-coach-charity-donors-15044956

A newly hired lawyer for a high school student [victim 1] described by prosecutors as a sexual abuse victim of former Penn State assistant coach Jerry Sandusky said Tuesday that he has been distressed to hear Sandusky's attorney dispute the charges.

Slade McLaughlin said his client stands by the allegations and sees the strategy by defense attorney Joe Amendola as putting victims on trial instead of Sandusky.
--------

"The proof is going to come out strong and hard, and these people are going to eat their words," McLaughlin said.

He said that Amendola's comments were not appropriate and that they may be an effort to influence potential jurors in favor of Sandusky.

"I frankly think a lot of his comments have been incendiary," McLaughlin said. "I think they have been harmful and hurtful to a lot of the victims."


More at link....

Reader
12-01-2011, 11:21 AM
In one Patriot-News articles where Amendola is interviewed, he stated that one of the boys was contacted by Penn State authorities for his name and number, but then he was never contacted again. Sandusky also gave his name and number to Curley. This might be why that victim believes that he is Victim #2. Here is where I read this.


"Amendola says both Victim Two and Sandusky deny seeing McQueary. Sandusky says he only found out there was a problem a few days later when Curley called him and said someone had witnessed horsing around that made them uncomfortable.
Sandusky said he gave Curley the boy’s name and phone number, saying he was sure he’d help to clear up the misunderstanding.
Sandusky contacted him and said, ‘You may get a call from someone from Penn State who is going to ask you about what’s going on in the shower, and if you do, it’s OK to tell them what was going on,’ " Amendola said. (This boy was supposedly never contacted again by the DA's office or Penn State officials.)
http://www.pennlive.com/midstate/index.ssf/2011/11/patriot-news_exclusive_jerry_s.html

BBM

All of these contacts were improper, not even considering that Curley should have been calling the police instead of the alleged abuser! He was giving JS a chance to cover himself.

Notice the subtle threat in JS's call to the child: 'it’s OK to tell them what was going on,’.....and I'm pretty sure he 'reminded' the victim about what 'it's OK' for him to say....

This man had no boundaries whatsoever and was so sure he could cover everything up with his influence [threats?] over the witnesses....

I really hope that the GJ/police end up charging him with tampering/improper contacts with witnesses during an investigation....

Concerned Papa
12-01-2011, 11:56 AM
As critical as I've been about Joe Paterno's failure to act on behalf of these children, I don't believe any of this bs:


Costas: "Did Joe Paterno at any time ever speak to you directly about your behavior?"

Sandusky: "No."

Costas: "Never?"

Sandusky: "No."

Costas: "He never asked you about what you might have done. He never asked you if you needed help, if you need counseling."

http://articles.businessinsider.com/2011-11-15/sports/30400488_1_joe-paterno-grand-jury-young-boy#ixzz1fIZPAia1

Pensfan
12-01-2011, 01:48 PM
BBM

All of these contacts were improper, not even considering that Curley should have been calling the police instead of the alleged abuser! He was giving JS a chance to cover himself.

Notice the subtle threat in JS's call to the child: 'it’s OK to tell them what was going on,’.....and I'm pretty sure he 'reminded' the victim about what 'it's OK' for him to say....

This man had no boundaries whatsoever and was so sure he could cover everything up with his influence [threats?] over the witnesses....

I really hope that the GJ/police end up charging him with tampering/improper contacts with witnesses during an investigation....
Curley, Shultz, Joe Pa, and Spanier likely testified to the grand jury that they never knew the name of that child therefore, the allegations from Victim 2 had to come from McQueary's statements. This is logical because the current man stating that he is Victim2 states (through Amendola) that he will not testify to being raped, so he didn't testify he was raped in front of the grand jury. Amendola has made statements that the prosecution has no victims and only has supposed eyewitnesses. This also shows that the shower rape allegations all came from McQueary's statements.

The man (who states he was that boy) and Sandusky stated that they never saw McQueary the night the child was raped. Therefore, Victim2 only knows that he is Victim 2 because Sandusky told him that info.

When pedos have access to many children, they are known to groom several at a time. Sandusky may have showered with another boy on a different night that week and the man who now says he is Victim 2 was intentionally misinformed by Sandusky that he was Victim 2. It is also possible that the man who states that he is Victim 2 is just dishonest. How is Sandusky going to prove that Victim2 was the actual boy McQueary saw in the shower? I don't see how he can prove this. ???

Dr.Fessel
12-01-2011, 01:51 PM
As critical as I've been about Joe Paterno's failure to act on behalf of these children, I don't believe any of this bs:

I agree with you 100%.Paterno made a fully informed decision when he promoted McQueary.

BennyProfane
12-01-2011, 01:57 PM
Defense lawyer Joseph Amendola told CNN contributor Sara Ganim that the young man, who was described in a grand jury report as being about 10 years old in March 2002, was in Amendola's office several weeks ago and said he believed he was the boy called "Victim 2."

http://www.cnn.com/2011/11/30/justice/pennsylvania-sandusky-attorney/index.html


Well, color me confused but just what exactly makes this particular person think that it is him being described as Victim #2 but yet says what they say happened, didn't happen? If it's him, what exactly is being described that makes it think they are talking about him but that the sex allegation didn't happen?

If it is him, this didn't happen, what exactly makes him think they are talking about him?

That doesn't even make sense to me. :waitasec:

ETA: something said regarding Victim #2 must make this person supposedly talking to the attorney think they are talking about him but to say, "hey I think that might be me they refer to as Victim #2 but what they say happened, didn't happen". What on earth in the indictment makes him think it is him if what is being described didn't happen to him?

I'm thinking Sandusky went through his rolodex of shower buddies and picked one out that he could rely on -- maybe a kid with whom nothing happened. He says to the kid something like 'You're not gonna believe this, but some investigators think...'

But Amendola's claim of a defense witness has this problem:
If in 2002 Sandusky really gave to Curley the contact info for a kid who would exonerate him, why wouldn't Curley provide that info to the GJ?
If Curley lost the info in the ten years gone by, wouldn't he at least tell the GJ that Sandusky had identified that kid during the initial investigation?
Even though the GJ doesn't have to include ALL info in the presentment, they would have had three years to try tracking down that info, and I just can't see excluding any mention of it.

The upside of "today's" Victim Two is that if he were to take the stand in any trial, could McQueary believably look at a twenty-year-old and say No, that's not the ten-year-old I saw pinned against the wall ten years ago.
A verbal description provided by McQueary ten years ago wouldn't include much more than hair and skin colour, one that could be matched by a kid of about the same age that Sandusky didn't assault.

Pensfan
12-01-2011, 02:04 PM
I'm thinking Sandusky went through his rolodex of shower buddies and picked one out that he could rely on -- maybe a kid with whom nothing happened. He says to the kid something like 'You're not gonna believe this, but some investigators think...'

But Amendola's claim of a defense witness has this problem:
If in 2002 Sandusky really gave to Curley the contact info for a kid who would exonerate him, why wouldn't Curley provide that info to the GJ?
If Curley lost the info in the ten years gone by, wouldn't he at least tell the GJ that Sandusky had identified that kid during the initial investigation?
Even though the GJ doesn't have to include ALL info in the presentment, they would have had three years to try tracking down that info, and I just can't see excluding any mention of it.

The upside of "today's" Victim Two is that if he were to take the stand in any trial, could McQueary believably look at a twenty-year-old and say No, that's not the ten-year-old I saw pinned against the wall ten years ago.
A verbal description provided by McQueary ten years ago wouldn't include much more than hair and skin colour, one that could be matched by a kid of about the same age that Sandusky didn't assault.
Welcome to Websleuths, Benny. Great post!

concentric
12-01-2011, 03:05 PM
What does this make now, 3 victims saying he took them across state lines to bowl games?

http://i941.photobucket.com/albums/ad257/Papa813_bucket/LawsuitC.jpg

I don't see how the Feds can stay out of this.
-----

Waiting to hear if it has been determined that there are any persons at these game destinations/conferences/charity events who might also have shared the same perverse interests as JS.

(There was an article or document posted in either this thread, or the one about Syracuse - B. Fine where at one incident, two other men were active participants in the assault. Either I will find that info. or someone else here recognizes what I am referring to.)

We may find out that the Sandusky or Fine investigations will lead to the truth regarding coverups that happened in other states, countries, etc.

Keeping in mind that there have been massive international internet child pornography busts over the last several years--there must be some investigators who are keeping tabs on communications.

ScorpRising
12-01-2011, 03:59 PM
I agree with you 100%.Paterno made a fully informed decision when he promoted McQueary.

Interesting. I have a call in to my football guy as I have no interest in looking at the stat crap...

For now, I leave you with this... The "house that Joe built", the dominant football mentality, say it however you like that created the cover-up is now going to put their streak or whatever in jeapordy in 2004 to buy some guy's silence? The immoral, narcissitc, self-serving football god I've been reading about the past few weeks would never put anything in front of his record. Why not just pay him off if he didn't deserve the spot?

Can someone point me to the ESPN cover-up thread? I apparently need to vent some frustration at the hypocritical media in it's own thread.

ETA: A search for "ESPN cover up" routed me back to this thread.

Concerned Papa
12-01-2011, 06:18 PM
Interesting. I have a call in to my football guy as I have no interest in looking at the stat crap...

For now, I leave you with this... The "house that Joe built", the dominant football mentality, say it however you like that created the cover-up is now going to put their streak or whatever in jeapordy in 2004 to buy some guy's silence? The immoral, narcissitc, self-serving football god I've been reading about the past few weeks would never put anything in front of his record. Why not just pay him off if he didn't deserve the spot?

Can someone point me to the ESPN cover-up thread? I apparently need to vent some frustration at the hypocritical media in it's own thread.

ETA: A search for "ESPN cover up" routed me back to this thread.

I'm going to ask you to take a look at this "streak", as you called it, in 2004 for the "house that Joe built". For the previous five years, Joe Paterno's Penn State football teams had losing records in four of those years. The combined win/loss record for those five years was 26 wins with 33 loses. That's about as bad as it gets in big time college football.

The program needed help. Joe needed help just to keep his job. As bad as it may sound, loyalty in sports in general, but college football in particular, often boils down to "what have ya done for me lately"? The facts of "the house that Joe built" in 2004 were the program was losing and he needed help.

NOW........suit up and place yourself in Joe Paterno's shoes. Given a choice, why would you EVER consider hiring someone in the critical role of Receiver's Coach who had never been a coach ANYWHERE? Given a choice, why would you EVER consider hiring someone as a Receiver's Coach who, not only had zero coaching experience but, had NEVER PLAYED THE POSITION OF A RECEIVER?

Is it just me, or does that seem a little bit like a corporate executive hiring someone as pilot of the company plane who had never flown before? I'm not trying to knock McQueary. If there is a good guy in this mess, it may very well be him, but I see nothing that indicates he "deserved the spot".

http://i941.photobucket.com/albums/ad257/Papa813_bucket/PSU20002001.png

http://i941.photobucket.com/albums/ad257/Papa813_bucket/PennState20023-1.jpg

http://i941.photobucket.com/albums/ad257/Papa813_bucket/PennState2004-1.jpg

J. J. in Phila
12-01-2011, 06:29 PM
Now flipping on the plea deal: http://www.pennlive.com/midstate/index.ssf/2011/12/jerry_sanduskys_lawyer_clarifi.html

FloatingStar
12-01-2011, 06:32 PM
Below excerpts are from:

Coach may have whistle-blower status - ESPN.com (https://www.google.com/search?gcx=c&ix=c2&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8&q=mcquery+espn#hl=en&sa=X&ei=U_3XTr6nJYqnsAKr-839DQ&ved=0CBcQBSgA&q=mcqueary's+promotion+espn&spell=1&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_cp.,cf.osb&fp=287565c675b09baa&biw=1271&bih=679)

"How is McQueary hanging on? One theory is that the Penn State receivers coach and recruiting coordinator may hold whistle-blower protection status under Pennsylvania state law. McQueary was a 28-year-old graduate assistant in 2002 when, according to his grand jury testimony, he witnessed Jerry Sandusky committing sexual assault on a young boy in the showers of the Lasch Football Building..."

"McQueary, a former Penn State quarterback, has faced immense criticism this week for not calling police, interrupting the act or, in the nine years since he was an eyewitness, demanding answers about why Sandusky was never charged. But Stephen Kohn, the executive director of the National Whistleblowers Center in Washington, D.C., believes reporting the incident to Paterno alone could be enough to protect McQueary under the state's whistle-blower law."

"If they were to fire him because he made the disclosure and reported it, then he would be protected," Kohn said. "Just because he's unpopular, just because people blame him for having the head coach dismissed, he can't be fired for any of that."

"That might help explain why Paterno spent Thursday on a couch in his home and McQueary was still at the practice facility helping players prepare for Nebraska. As Kohn explained it, even though McQueary was the actual witness, the level of reporting responsibility for a then-28-year-old graduate assistant and a legendary head coach is far different."

"You have to look at where the employee is on the totem pole," Kohn said. "There are different expectations at different levels. A manager versus an employee. A student versus a teacher. It's just how it goes. The last thing you want to do is create an environment where people don't even tell the supervisor."

"Joe Paterno, 10-11 years ago, was an incredibly powerful guy," Dannin said. "What would have happened to him if he would have taken it further? If he would have insisted on answers? Nothing. It would have been resolved. What did [Paterno] have to lose versus what did [McQueary] have to lose? There's no comparison. [Paterno] could have safely ended this."

"Of course, there are those who will say that McQueary could have ended it as well, by stopping Sandusky in the act or by calling the police, either anonymously or not. But at this point, it isn't believed that that happened.

"If [McQueary] is a low-level person, you can understand why he might be stunned in that moment," she said. "And people don't act their best when they're taken by surprise."

Pensfan
12-01-2011, 07:39 PM
I'm going to ask you to take a look at this "streak", as you called it, in 2004 for the "house that Joe built". For the previous five years, Joe Paterno's Penn State football teams had losing records in four of those years. The combined win/loss record for those five years was 26 wins with 33 loses. That's about as bad as it gets in big time college football.

The program needed help. Joe needed help just to keep his job. As bad as it may sound, loyalty in sports in general, but college football in particular, often boils down to "what have ya done for me lately"? The facts of "the house that Joe built" in 2004 were the program was losing and he needed help.

NOW........suit up and place yourself in Joe Paterno's shoes. Given a choice, why would you EVER consider hiring someone in the critical role of Receiver's Coach who had never been a coach ANYWHERE? Given a choice, why would you EVER consider hiring someone as a Receiver's Coach who, not only had zero coaching experience but, had NEVER PLAYED THE POSITION OF A RECEIVER?

Is it just me, or does that seem a little bit like a corporate executive hiring someone as pilot of the company plane who had never flown before? I'm not trying to knock McQueary. If there is a good guy in this mess, it may very well be him, but I see nothing that indicates he "deserved the spot".
Was he first hired as a recruiter after being considered a graduate assistant?

Insiders knew him as a key player in helping Penn State's resurgence in the mid- to late 2000s, when the Nittany Lions won 11 games three times and played in two BCS bowl games.
http://espn.go.com/espn/otl/story/_/id/7237700/in-penn-state-child-sexual-abuse-scandal-there-no-easy-answers-assistant-mike-mcqueary

McQueary's efforts as recruiting coordinator have yielded six of the fastest and most athletic classes in Penn State history.
http://www.gopsusports.com/sports/m-footbl/mtt/mcqueary_mike00.html

Those quotes above may be "fluff". I seriously don't know. What is a graduate assistant in the football department? Is this someone working on their graduate degree like in other departments or does this have some other meaning?

Concerned Papa
12-01-2011, 08:02 PM
Was he first hired as a recruiter after being considered a graduate assistant?

Insiders knew him as a key player in helping Penn State's resurgence in the mid- to late 2000s, when the Nittany Lions won 11 games three times and played in two BCS bowl games.
http://espn.go.com/espn/otl/story/_/id/7237700/in-penn-state-child-sexual-abuse-scandal-there-no-easy-answers-assistant-mike-mcqueary

McQueary's efforts as recruiting coordinator have yielded six of the fastest and most athletic classes in Penn State history.
http://www.gopsusports.com/sports/m-footbl/mtt/mcqueary_mike00.html

Those quotes above may be "fluff". I seriously don't know. What is a graduate assistant in the football department? Is this someone working on their graduate degree like in other departments or does this have some other meaning?

IDK regarding the role of a graduate assistant. I played at the University of Georgia many eons ago and we had student assistants who did a lot of the "grunt" work associated with all of the equipment, etc. I don't know McQueary's actual duties prior to being installed as an assistant coach in 2004. Like I said, McQueary may very well be one of the good guys in all of this and I'm NOT trying to knock him. My only point is that in 2004, Paterno's team had problems winning football games and it makes no sense to me that he would have hired such an inexperienced person as his Receiver's Coach. I've made no effort to look into how well McQueary did or didn'r do as coach. I just want to understand whey he was hired to such an important position with absolutely zero experience as a coach or player in that position.

I don't see how it could not, at least, be considered as a reward or payment for something else.

Pensfan
12-01-2011, 08:32 PM
IDK regarding the role of a graduate assistant. I played at the University of Georgia many eons ago and we had student assistants who did a lot of the "grunt" work associated with all of the equipment, etc. I don't know McQueary's actual duties prior to being installed as an assistant coach in 2004. Like I said, McQueary may very well be one of the good guys in all of this and I'm NOT trying to knock him. My only point is that in 2004, Paterno's team had problems winning football games and it makes no sense to me that he would have hired such an inexperienced person as his Receiver's Coach. I've made no effort to look into how well McQueary did or didn'r do as coach. I just want to understand whey he was hired to such an important position with absolutely zero experience as a coach or player in that position.

I don't see how it could not, at least, be considered as a reward or payment for something else.
Yeah, it could be. My last thought is that maybe McQueary's dad and Joe Pa were old friends. How many receivers' coaches are employed for a college football team? Is this a place where wealthy teams can easily put their friends and relatives on the payroll?

Concerned Papa
12-01-2011, 08:50 PM
Yeah, it could be. My last thought is that maybe McQueary's dad and Joe Pa were old friends. How many receivers' coaches are employed for a college football team? Is this a place where wealthy teams can easily put their friends and relatives on the payroll?

I have no idea regarding his Dad and JoePa. There's typically only one receivers coach. The number of receivers on any football team is only going to be around 8-10, but is a key role. A receivers coach, in part, is the one that trains these players in the many complex routes to be run in any play that's executed by the offense. As much as any coaches role, a complete understanding of a host of intricate player moves has to be fully understood with the ability to instill this knowledge in the players. It's a tough spot for a rookie coach.

I just think hiring such an unknown/unproven factor in the situation Paterno was in is not at all logical and was a heck of a risk. It makes no sense in the normal flow of college football.

J. J. in Phila
12-01-2011, 09:26 PM
I have no idea regarding his Dad and JoePa. There's typically only one receivers coach. The number of receivers on any football team is only going to be around 8-10, but is a key role. A receivers coach, in part, is the one that trains these players in the many complex routes to be run in any play that's executed by the offense. As much as any coaches role, a complete understanding of a host of intricate player moves has to be fully understood with the ability to instill this knowledge in the players. It's a tough spot for a rookie coach.

I just think hiring such an unknown/unproven factor in the situation Paterno was in is not at all logical and was a heck of a risk. It makes no sense in the normal flow of college football.

They hired Sandusky from within, and he was a GA as well. There were a few others, according to Wikipedia, Dick Anderson and Fran Ganter.

Reader
12-01-2011, 09:31 PM
I'm thinking Sandusky went through his rolodex of shower buddies and picked one out that he could rely on -- maybe a kid with whom nothing happened. He says to the kid something like 'You're not gonna believe this, but some investigators think...'

But Amendola's claim of a defense witness has this problem:
If in 2002 Sandusky really gave to Curley the contact info for a kid who would exonerate him, why wouldn't Curley provide that info to the GJ?
If Curley lost the info in the ten years gone by, wouldn't he at least tell the GJ that Sandusky had identified that kid during the initial investigation?
Even though the GJ doesn't have to include ALL info in the presentment, they would have had three years to try tracking down that info, and I just can't see excluding any mention of it.

The upside of "today's" Victim Two is that if he were to take the stand in any trial, could McQueary believably look at a twenty-year-old and say No, that's not the ten-year-old I saw pinned against the wall ten years ago.
A verbal description provided by McQueary ten years ago wouldn't include much more than hair and skin colour, one that could be matched by a kid of about the same age that Sandusky didn't assault.

Welcome to WS and excellent questions!

BBM

It may be that our Mr. Curley lied about more than the reporting issues and this will come from JS himself, if there is a trial: that he gave Curley the name and phone # of this child, contacted him about what he could/should say and then Curley never followed up and apparently did not share this info with anyone else at the time or with the GJ.

OR, it may be that the GJ has kept any info/contacts they have had with victim 2 out of the limelight, since this is the most serious charge. Their proceedings are supposed to be secret after all...

Maybe JS and his lawyer have a little surprise coming in the preliminary hearing...sweet revenge for victim 2....how I wish it was so!

Reader
12-01-2011, 09:37 PM
Now flipping on the plea deal: http://www.pennlive.com/midstate/index.ssf/2011/12/jerry_sanduskys_lawyer_clarifi.html


The dance begins.....


testing...testing...testing....

FloatingStar
12-01-2011, 09:40 PM
I just think hiring such an unknown/unproven factor in the situation Paterno was in is not at all logical and was a heck of a risk. It makes no sense in the normal flow of college football.

This letter from McQueary to Paterno seems genuine. I suspect that McQueary's fawning loyalty and admiration, even if somewhat feigned, would get a promotion in many academic as well as sports contexts.

Mike McQueary’s Letter to Joe Paterno (http://rumbunter.com/2011/12/01/mike-mcquearys-letter-to-joe-paterno/)

Just thought it was a possibility.

FloatingStar
12-01-2011, 10:03 PM
This question does knaw at my thinking a bit:

"Apparently, Mr. McQueary golfed and socialized with Mr. Sandusky after March 1, 2002, conduct that is inconsistent with Mr. McQueary's testimony: Most people do not socialize with individuals they believe to be child-rapists," Farrell and fellow attorney Caroline Roberto wrote."

If true, it makes me sort of queasy about McQueary. I've been fired from jobs when I stood up for a principle a lot less serious than witnessing a child rape.

from
Former Penn State administrators' lawyers target McQueary's credibility (http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/news/specialreports/pennstate/s_769626.html)

Reader
12-01-2011, 10:21 PM
This letter from McQueary to Paterno seems genuine. I suspect that McQueary's fawning loyalty and admiration, even if somewhat feigned, would get a promotion in many academic as well as sports contexts.

Mike McQueary’s Letter to Joe Paterno (http://rumbunter.com/2011/12/01/mike-mcquearys-letter-to-joe-paterno/)

Just thought it was a possibility.

He surely played to Paterno's ego, but it also seems sincere to me.

Not knowing much about his background, I found this article with some good info on McQueary:


http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/11313/1188543-298.stm

Reader
12-01-2011, 10:33 PM
http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/news/specialreports/pennstate/s_769809.html

The Penn State child sexual abuse scandal that began with a mother's call to her son's high school in 2008 has spawned at least eight overlapping investigations.

State Attorney General Linda Kelly is overseeing the 2 1/2-year grand jury investigation that led to an explosive Nov. 5 abuse complaint against retired assistant football coach Jerry Sandusky, and felony charges against two top university officials who prosecutors say lied under oath. Until it released the grand jury's report, Kelly's office was the sole investigating agency.

Now it has company.

Rep. Pat Meehan, R-Delaware County, a former federal prosecutor who asked the U.S. Department of Education to investigate Penn State's compliance with the Clery Act on crime reporting, predicts the university will have trouble keeping up with subpoenas and requests for documents.

"It will overwhelm the Penn State administration," Meehan said.
----------

That's not necessarily bad, said John Burkoff, a professor at the University of Pittsburgh School of Law.

"The more investigations ... and the more publicity these investigations spawn, the greater the chance that additional pieces of evidence will turn up," Burkoff said. "That includes more victims or witnesses, assuming that there are any more out there."

Pittsburgh attorney Howard Messer isn't optimistic that multiple investigations will lead to substantive change at Penn State.

"It all depends upon the motivations of the people who control the investigations," said Messer, who represented miners trapped in the 2002 Quecreek Mine disaster that spawned four investigations. "The political and economic considerations that go into funding these investigations often control the outcome. If investigators are left alone, they tend to reach much better conclusions."

Reader
12-01-2011, 10:38 PM
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-12-01/sandusky-s-second-mile-charity-settles-suit-by-alleged-victim-lawyer-says.html

The Second Mile, a charity run by former Pennsylvania State University football coach Jerry Sandusky, settled a lawsuit filed by an alleged sexual abuse victim seeking to freeze its assets, according to a lawyer.

The charity agreed to obtain court approval prior to transferring assets or closing down and provide notice to the plaintiff before any distribution of funds, attorney Ben Andreozzi said today in an e-mailed statement. Andreozzi represents a man identified as John Doe #4 in the complaint, filed Nov. 23 in Pennsylvania state court in Philadelphia.

More at link....

Reader
12-01-2011, 10:51 PM
http://www.mcclatchydc.com/2011/12/01/131880/penn-state-fundraisers-quietly.html

STATE COLLEGE, Pa. — Penn State Nation has a stealth army of alumni, a half-million strong stretching from the Florida Keys to Alaska.

They always have given their alma mater their loyalty, gratitude and money — lots of it.

But after the appalling revelations of the past month, some Penn State benefactors big and small are snapping shut their checkbooks. It's a critical problem for a school that already is reeling and doubtless faces more bruising headlines in the months to come.

In response, the school in recent days has launched a quiet outreach effort to deep-pocketed alumni, aimed at ensuring the university's most important donors remain on board.

Much more at link...good info on the fundraising and budget at Penn St.

FloatingStar
12-02-2011, 12:23 AM
He surely played to Paterno's ego, but it also seems sincere to me. Not knowing much about his background, I found this article with some good info on McQueary:
http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/11313/1188543-298.stm

That article brought up an angle I was unaware of. The role of McQueary's father:

"According to the grand jury report, Mr. McQueary first told his father of the incident and they went together to tell Mr. Paterno the day after the assault."

"[Mike McQuery's father] John McQueary said he could not make any other comments because he is a witness in the Sandusky case."

For one thing, if BOTH McQueary and his father went to Paterno it seems like it would be harder for Paterno to shuffle and jive about exactly what he was told. Secondly, the reported strategy of attacking the credibility of McQueary by lawyers for athletic director Tim Curley and university VP Gary Schultz would seem to be weak if McQueary's father was right there alongside him directly talking to Paterno.

Pensfan
12-02-2011, 01:04 AM
On page184 in Sandusky’s book, he describes how he scammed his friends, neighbors and the IRS r/t the initial tax exemption for Second Mile. He told his friends and neighbors, “Just in case you are ever asked, you ARE on the board of Second Mile. (I wonder if you used a similar phrase to the man now stating the he is Victim2.)

He also states that he got the name for Second Mile..............in church. (Yep, a holy directive) He describes his actions of visiting the wealthy benefactors and begging for money. He MADE THE UNDERPRIVILEGED KIDS GO DOOR TO DOOR at one time and beg for donations for his pedo palace.

He rants about how he had a tough ethical decision to make on whether to take a donation to Second Mile from a fraternity on campus that drank alcohol. He brags about how he turned down an applicant to be houseparent in his “Second Mile foster care dream home” because one man smoked.

He describes how in the beginning of Second Mile that middle class individuals would fund the payroll out of their own pocket when Second Mile was in the red. (An earlier internet article stated that Sandusky only gave a $1000 as a donation to Second Mile yearly. He likely had a higher salary than the people he scammed to keep Second Mile afloat with their own money.)

On page 191, one board member early in Second Mile's history said if they drained Second Mile like a farmer would drain a huge container of sour milk, they would find a RAT!!!!! An executive director stood up and immediately took all the blame. Then the organization went on without this rat according to Sandusky the King Rat.

On the left side of this Amazon page, there is a space where you can type in the page number that you want to read.

Amazon.com: Touched: The Jerry Sandusky Story (9781582613574): Jerry Sandusky: Books@@AMEPARAM@@http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41SRnoJKLLL.@@AMEPARAM@@41SRnoJKLLL

HMSHood
12-02-2011, 01:17 AM
Jerry Sandusky’s Voice and Speech Content Show Signals of Deception Guilt In Costas Interview
http://drlillianglassbodylanguageblog.wordpress.com/2011/11/15/jerry-sanduskys-voice-and-speech-content-show-signals-of-deception-guilt-in-costas-interview/

She nails it right on. Sandusky is full of lies and deception.

Pensfan
12-02-2011, 01:30 AM
That article brought up an angle I was unaware of. The role of McQueary's father:

"According to the grand jury report, Mr. McQueary first told his father of the incident and they went together to tell Mr. Paterno the day after the assault."

"[Mike McQuery's father] John McQueary said he could not make any other comments because he is a witness in the Sandusky case."

For one thing, if BOTH McQueary and his father went to Paterno it seems like it would be harder for Paterno to shuffle and jive about exactly what he was told. Secondly, the reported strategy of attacking the credibility of McQueary by lawyers for athletic director Tim Curley and university VP Gary Schultz would seem to be weak if McQueary's father was right there alongside him directly talking to Paterno.
I don't think McQueary's dad went.

Grand Jury Findings:
"The graduate assistant and his father decided that the graduate assistant had to promptly report what he had seen to Coach Joe Paterno. The graduate assistant telephoned Paterno and went to Paterno’s home, where he reported what he had seen." (pg 7)
http://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q=cache:TG8UHALvAnQJ:www.freep.com/assets/freep/pdf/C4181508116.PDF+sandusky+grand+jury+report&hl=en&gl=us&pid=bl&srcid=ADGEEShMhKT8upRmcUzqYI-Xe9-1hKvL1EkGlD9927LUfoWxFBKczhF_bUYkgLs2uaLHvoL1GfPrp e_y6heYIX8tgMmmXqT-LfqMoLyDxhh7cYyJEmvY0dOWwAgJL722dFj7GrRwmBuW&sig=AHIEtbTBUceIh0JMq3aYW7ai3OF9aAkXgA

azwriter
12-02-2011, 02:04 AM
Jerry Sandusky’s Voice and Speech Content Show Signals of Deception Guilt In Costas Interview
http://drlillianglassbodylanguageblog.wordpress.com/2011/11/15/jerry-sanduskys-voice-and-speech-content-show-signals-of-deception-guilt-in-costas-interview/

She nails it right on. Sandusky is full of lies and deception.

I really appreciate you posting this HMSHood. It was an interesting read. But, I've got to make an acception to one part of the doctor's comments about Sandusky's voice.

Since Sandusky and I are from the same home town, I am quite familiar with raising your voice at the end of a sentence. It does make it sound as if he is unassure and is asking a question. But people from the southwestern part of Penna normally sound that way. It's an accent I worked at losing for years as I moved across the country. Which of course I can easily take back once I visit my home town of Washington, Penna for a period of time.

I know the accent is almost hick sounding. But the raising of the voice at the end of a sentence is quite common for people of that area. You hear it in the voices of those from Pittsburgh too. They call it speaking Pittsburghenese.

Knowing he moved and lived a major part of his life in the Happy Valley area, Sandusky could still retain that accent and that method of speaking; maybe in stressful situations. I know it happens often to me. I can pick out that accent in a crowd and all I have to say is who here is from Pittsburgh and someone will come forward and ask "how did you know?"

I just wanted to point out that the doctor
might just be mixing a simple territory accent in with her list of disclosure that he sounds guilty.

However, I do think he is.

just my O

Reader
12-02-2011, 02:17 AM
I don't think McQueary's dad went.

Grand Jury Findings:
"The graduate assistant and his father decided that the graduate assistant had to promptly report what he had seen to Coach Joe Paterno. The graduate assistant telephoned Paterno and went to Paterno’s home, where he reported what he had seen." (pg 7)
http://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q=cache:TG8UHALvAnQJ:www.freep.com/assets/freep/pdf/C4181508116.PDF+sandusky+grand+jury+report&hl=en&gl=us&pid=bl&srcid=ADGEEShMhKT8upRmcUzqYI-Xe9-1hKvL1EkGlD9927LUfoWxFBKczhF_bUYkgLs2uaLHvoL1GfPrp e_y6heYIX8tgMmmXqT-LfqMoLyDxhh7cYyJEmvY0dOWwAgJL722dFj7GrRwmBuW&sig=AHIEtbTBUceIh0JMq3aYW7ai3OF9aAkXgA

That's correct...just rechecked it too....the GJ report does not say his father went with him to tell Paterno...

I'm sorry, FloatingStar, that is an error in the article I posted...it would have been great if there had been a witness to the conversation....

It was too late for me to edit the post for a note to explain.

I hope the rest of the article is OK....

Concerned Papa
12-02-2011, 03:13 AM
They hired Sandusky from within, and he was a GA as well. There were a few others, according to Wikipedia, Dick Anderson and Fran Ganter.

Thanks J J, but Ive made no reference to being hired from within. But, since you mention Sandusky, he is a perfect comparison to McQueary for the point I am making.

Both played at Penn State:


Sandusky played for Paterno at Penn State, starting at defensive end from 1963 to 1965

McQueary was a record setting former quarterback for Penn State. He led the team for two seasons, 1996 and 1997

Both were graduate assistants:


Sandusky served as a graduate assistant under Paterno at Penn State in 1966

McQueary was a graduate assistant under Paterno from 2000-2002

The similarity between their histories end at this point in their respective carriers. After serving as a graduate assistant:


Sandusky was assistant basketball and track coach at Juniata College in 1967

Sandusky was offensive line coach at Boston University in 1968.

McQueary?.....after witnessing the shower rape incident in 2002?


McQueary spent the 2003 season as an administrative assistant with the football program

Sandusky became the defensive line coach for Penn State in 1969, having been a defensive player for Penn State, and having TWO prior coaching positions on his resume.

McQueary became the receivers coach for Penn State in 2004, having been a quarterback for Penn State, and having ZERO prior coaching positions on his resume.

I haven't even looked into the other aspect of the post you referenced which is the win/loss record of Paterno's team prior to McQueary being named as a coach in comparison to Sandusky. I'm willing to bet there wasn't nearly the pressure on Paterno for results improvement in 1969 that there was in 2004 which makes hiring a non experienced coach with no player's position experience very hard for me to understand.

Unless there was another reason.

Jerry Sandusky - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Mike McQueary - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

FloatingStar
12-02-2011, 08:37 AM
That's correct...just rechecked it too...that is an error in the article I posted...

Yes, I should have checked the Grand Jury presentment (GJP) - didn't think an article would have such a blatant misstatement. I wonder if that reporter had some other source saying they both went to Paterno. More likely it was the general description in the GJP that led the reporter to phrase it that way.

I realize this has probably been hashed over enough already, but reviewing the GJP there ARE a couple of things that seem quite odd (see excerpt below). McQueary allegedly witnessed the locker room rape on a Friday (March 1, 2002). He went to his office and called his father, who told him to LEAVE THE BUILDING AND COME TO HIS FATHER'S HOME. Come on, this is very weird. It sounds almost like the father thought McQuery was in danger or something. Leave the building, quick, we need to talk this over and figure out what to to do. We need to strategize on the best way to proceed. I read somewhere that the father was the type whose life was sort of integrated with Penn State as a religion, maybe with football on the high alter. It seems that the father may have been the key starting point of the cover-up, participated in by so many with the same tinted Penn-State-first lens for viewing everything.

The second weird thing is the testimony that McQueary and father decided they should "promptly" report what he had seen to Coach Joe Paterno. WHAT? PROMPTLY report? So after making the momentous decision to "promptly" report the incident, McQueary waits until the NEXT DAY to call Paterno? Wow, that puts everyone hot on the trail of the CHILD RAPIST. Using the word "promptly" makes me think a lawyer or someone similar put words into the speaker's mouth. Unless other evidence emerges my judgment is that McQueary and father were more concerned about McQueary's place within Penn State royalty than they were about a child being raped. Investigators who first interviewed McQueary found him eager to unload his guilty conscience. McQueary's saga may turn out to be good symbolism that represents the whole Penn State bureaucracy. But wait, a bureaucracy is likely never eager to unload it's guilt.

From Grand Jury presentment:

"On March l, 2002, a Penn State graduate assistant (‘“graduate assistant"`) who was then 28 years old, entered the locker room...The graduate assistant was shocked but noticed that both Victim 2 and Sandusky saw him. The graduate assistant left immediately, distraught.

The graduate assistant went to his office and called his father, reporting to him what he had seen. His father told the graduate assistant to leave the building and come to his home. The graduate assistant and his father decided that the graduate assistant had to promptly report what he had seen to Coach Joe Paterno ("Paterno"), head football coach of Penn State. The next morning, a Saturday, the graduate assistant telephoned Paterno and went to Paterno’s home, where he reported what he had seen.

Joseph V. Paterno testified to receiving the graduate assistant’s report at his home on a Saturday morning. Paterno testified that the graduate assistant was very upset."

truecrimejunkie
12-02-2011, 09:05 AM
I really appreciate you posting this HMSHood. It was an interesting read. But, I've got to make an acception to one part of the doctor's comments about Sandusky's voice.

Since Sandusky and I are from the same home town, I am quite familiar with raising your voice at the end of a sentence. It does make it sound as if he is unassure and is asking a question. But people from the southwestern part of Penna normally sound that way. It's an accent I worked at losing for years as I moved across the country. Which of course I can easily take back once I visit my home town of Washington, Penna for a period of time.

I know the accent is almost hick sounding. But the raising of the voice at the end of a sentence is quite common for people of that area. You hear it in the voices of those from Pittsburgh too. They call it speaking Pittsburghenese.

Knowing he moved and lived a major part of his life in the Happy Valley area, Sandusky could still retain that accent and that method of speaking; maybe in stressful situations. I know it happens often to me. I can pick out that accent in a crowd and all I have to say is who here is from Pittsburgh and someone will come forward and ask "how did you know?"

I just wanted to point out that the doctor
might just be mixing a simple territory accent in with her list of disclosure that he sounds guilty.

However, I do think he is.

just my O

Sorry this is O/T but here is a link to a good (if not a bit exaggerated and hilarious) example of the pittsburgh accent. Pittsburghers always sound defensive to me
http://yappinyinzers.com/home.php
But I think Lillian Glass was spot on in her analysis.

J. J. in Phila
12-02-2011, 10:25 AM
Thanks J J, but Ive made no reference to being hired from within. But, since you mention Sandusky, he is a perfect comparison to McQueary for the point I am making.

Both played at Penn State:



Both were graduate assistants:



The similarity between their histories end at this point in their respective carriers. After serving as a graduate assistant:



McQueary?.....after witnessing the shower rape incident in 2002?



Sandusky became the defensive line coach for Penn State in 1969, having been a defensive player for Penn State, and having TWO prior coaching positions on his resume.



Football is not my strength, but Sandusky might have been was the first assistant coach. Wikipedia does list any before that (which could mean Wikipedia is incomplete as well).

One of those was as a basketball coach.


McQueary became the receivers coach for Penn State in 2004, having been a quarterback for Penn State, and having ZERO prior coaching positions on his resume.


He was playing, in the NFL, so that might have given him broader experience.

From what I can tell from Ganter, he went into the program the fall after graduation. http://www.gopsusports.com/genrel/ganter_fran00.html

I'm not thrilled with the practice, but a lot of groups hire from within. The employer thinks they are a known quality (though Sandusky obviously wasn't).



I haven't even looked into the other aspect of the post you referenced which is the win/loss record of Paterno's team prior to McQueary being named as a coach in comparison to Sandusky. I'm willing to bet there wasn't nearly the pressure on Paterno for results improvement in 1969 that there was in 2004 which makes hiring a non experienced coach with no player's position experience very hard for me to understand.



From what I'm gathering McQueary's position is somewhat inferior to what Sandusky's was. Also Sandusky started out at a "lower" position and was eventually promoted in 1977 to defensive coordinator.

I'm not seeing anything too suspicious in McQueary's naming.

FloatingStar
12-02-2011, 01:34 PM
Article: Sandusky accuser, charity settle legal dispute (http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/sports/2016915190_apuspennstateabuse.html)

"Andreozzi and Fritz said that under terms of the settlement, The Second Mile has agreed to obtain court approval before transferring assets or closing and give their client the ability to weigh in before a judge regarding any distribution of assets."

Pensfan
12-02-2011, 01:57 PM
I really appreciate you posting this HMSHood. It was an interesting read. But, I've got to make an acception to one part of the doctor's comments about Sandusky's voice.

Since Sandusky and I are from the same home town, I am quite familiar with raising your voice at the end of a sentence. It does make it sound as if he is unassure and is asking a question. But people from the southwestern part of Penna normally sound that way. It's an accent I worked at losing for years as I moved across the country. Which of course I can easily take back once I visit my home town of Washington, Penna for a period of time.

I know the accent is almost hick sounding. But the raising of the voice at the end of a sentence is quite common for people of that area. You hear it in the voices of those from Pittsburgh too. They call it speaking Pittsburghenese.

Knowing he moved and lived a major part of his life in the Happy Valley area, Sandusky could still retain that accent and that method of speaking; maybe in stressful situations. I know it happens often to me. I can pick out that accent in a crowd and all I have to say is who here is from Pittsburgh and someone will come forward and ask "how did you know?"

I just wanted to point out that the doctor
might just be mixing a simple territory accent in with her list of disclosure that he sounds guilty.

However, I do think he is.

just my O

ITA. There were a lot of Eastern European immigrants who moved to W. Pa to work in the coal mines and steel mills. Raising the pitch at the end of every sentence (like English people do when asking a question) is how Russians/Ukrainians normally speak. If one scans the phone book, he/she can see the many Russian/Ukrainian names ending in a "ov", "ova", "ich", or "ko" (Matko, Simko, and etc...). In Pittsburgh, which is near Washington, Pa, there are 7 Russian Orthodox Churches and 2 Ukrainian Orthodox Churches.

Pensfan
12-02-2011, 02:02 PM
Football is not my strength, but Sandusky might have been was the first assistant coach. Wikipedia does list any before that (which could mean Wikipedia is incomplete as well).

One of those was as a basketball coach.



He was playing, in the NFL, so that might have given him broader experience.

From what I can tell from Ganter, he went into the program the fall after graduation. http://www.gopsusports.com/genrel/ganter_fran00.html

I'm not thrilled with the practice, but a lot of groups hire from within. The employer thinks they are a known quality (though Sandusky obviously wasn't).



From what I'm gathering McQueary's position is somewhat inferior to what Sandusky's was. Also Sandusky started out at a "lower" position and was eventually promoted in 1977 to defensive coordinator.

I'm not seeing anything too suspicious in McQueary's naming.
IIRC, his dad was also was a Penn State football player. McQueary's family lives in that city (State College, Pa). He was a hometown boy and graduated from high school there.

BigCat
12-02-2011, 02:44 PM
On the subject of Penn State fooball hiring practices: the current interim head coach, Tom Bradley, played defensive back at Penn State from 1977-78, which were the first two years of Sandusky's tenure as defensive coordinator. Bradley became a graduate assistant in '79, at the age of 23, and then an assistant on the defensive staff in '80. He worked under Jerry Sandusky for 19 seasons and then took over Sandusky's job as defensive coordinator in 2000 after Sandusky's retirement in '99.

Bradley is a candidate for the permanent head coaching job and he's actively pursuing the position (http://www.usatoday.com/sports/college/football/bigten/story/2011-11-30/tom-bradley-sells-penn-state-to-recruits/51517254/1). There was does seem to be some sentiment in his favor. However, I'll be surprised if he gets the job. My guess is that the hiring committee would want someone for the position who neither played nor coached under Paterno. Fair or not, recruiting will be challenge for Bradley since parents are going to wonder how he worked closely with a pedophile for 20 plus years and didn't have a clue what was going on, at best.

So, there is precedent for Paterno hiring young graduate assistants who played for him. If there is a difference, Penn State's defense is much better than the offense and has been for many years. The receivers McQueary coached have never played at a high level. If, however, McQueary is a good recruiter, as another poster has suggested, then that could explain his position on the staff. Recruiting is very important in college football. :twocents:

ScorpRising
12-02-2011, 03:03 PM
Interesting. I have a call in to my football guy as I have no interest in looking at the stat crap...

For now, I leave you with this... The "house that Joe built", the dominant football mentality, say it however you like that created the cover-up is now going to put their streak or whatever in jeapordy in 2004 to buy some guy's silence? The immoral, narcissitc, self-serving football god I've been reading about the past few weeks would never put anything in front of his record. Why not just pay him off if he didn't deserve the spot?





I'm going to ask you to take a look at this "streak", as you called it, in 2004 for the "house that Joe built". For the previous five years, Joe Paterno's Penn State football teams had losing records in four of those years. The combined win/loss record for those five years was 26 wins with 33 loses. That's about as bad as it gets in big time college football.

The program needed help. Joe needed help just to keep his job. As bad as it may sound, loyalty in sports in general, but college football in particular, often boils down to "what have ya done for me lately"? The facts of "the house that Joe built" in 2004 were the program was losing and he needed help.

NOW........suit up and place yourself in Joe Paterno's shoes. Given a choice, why would you EVER consider hiring someone in the critical role of Receiver's Coach who had never been a coach ANYWHERE? Given a choice, why would you EVER consider hiring someone as a Receiver's Coach who, not only had zero coaching experience but, had NEVER PLAYED THE POSITION OF A RECEIVER?

Is it just me, or does that seem a little bit like a corporate executive hiring someone as pilot of the company plane who had never flown before? I'm not trying to knock McQueary. If there is a good guy in this mess, it may very well be him, but I see nothing that indicates he "deserved the spot".


I apologize, my post was dripping with sarcasm that's lost in print. The overall point is: You can't have it both ways. The figurehead vs. the god has already been discussed. The godliness portrayal does not leave room for an unqualified individual coaching such a key part of your offense. The record of the team prior to 2004 holds no bearing on McQ's coaching ability. The support of his hiring can only come from the team record going forward. The overall record from 2004 through 10/29/11 is 70-26, with the only losiing season being 2004 (4-7) and the worst winning season being 2010 (7-5). I also don't see it being overly odd to have a qb as a receiver's coach. It's offense to offense, it's not like he was QB and coached defense.

As for a crumbling empire hiring a n00b, that'd be how I got my start here. I didn't deserve the position. I had no experience in this field, or any field for that matter. 4 weeks after I started, a takeover was announced. Of the 15 that started with me that regretful day, only 1 besides me wasn't "let go" over the years. So McQ's 4 years as a member of a coaching staff prior to promotion is not out of my realm of possibilities. I live it, I'm with my company as long as he was a member of the coaching staff. My salary has doubled in those 11 years. I quit and they asked me to come back. I've had several more promotions than he did in that time frame and I'm not here as part of a cover-up.

Dr.Fessel
12-02-2011, 04:39 PM
It is offical, they fired Paterno again.

http://www.pennlive.com/midstate/index.ssf/2011/12/executive_penn_state_board_mem.html

The Penn State Board of Trustees met this morning and officially ratified the firing of head football coach Joe Paterno and stepping down of university president Graham Spanier in the wake of the Jerry Sandusky child sex abuse scandal.

The meeting lasted four minutes, and was essentially a formality and part of the process following an emergency meeting.

The votes were unanimous. “Due to extraordinary circumstances, the board needed to act swiftly and decisively Nov. 9. We believe that immediate action was necessary and we stand by those decisions," board president Steve Garban said.

Dr.Fessel
12-02-2011, 04:40 PM
I apologize, my post was dripping with sarcasm that's lost in print. The overall point is: You can't have it both ways. The figurehead vs. the god has already been discussed. The godliness portrayal does not leave room for an unqualified individual coaching such a key part of your offense. The record of the team prior to 2004 holds no bearing on McQ's coaching ability. The support of his hiring can only come from the team record going forward. The overall record from 2004 through 10/29/11 is 70-26, with the only losiing season being 2004 (4-7) and the worst winning season being 2010 (7-5). I also don't see it being overly odd to have a qb as a receiver's coach. It's offense to offense, it's not like he was QB and coached defense.

As for a crumbling empire hiring a n00b, that'd be how I got my start here. I didn't deserve the position. I had no experience in this field, or any field for that matter. 4 weeks after I started, a takeover was announced. Of the 15 that started with me that regretful day, only 1 besides me wasn't "let go" over the years. So McQ's 4 years as a member of a coaching staff prior to promotion is not out of my realm of possibilities. I live it, I'm with my company as long as he was a member of the coaching staff. My salary has doubled in those 11 years. I quit and they asked me to come back. I've had several more promotions than he did in that time frame and I'm not here as part of a cover-up.

Did you report the rape of a little boy to your boss and nothing was done about it?

Pensfan
12-02-2011, 04:57 PM
The article below suggests that former FBI Director Freeh may be overextended which means the investigation into Penn State might take "forever".

“....four days after Freeh was named to head the PSU investigation, he was picked to be the trustee for MF Global's Chapter 11 bankruptcy case.
This, too, would seem to be a time-consuming task. The Associated Press reports that as trustee, Freeh will assist the company in securing financing to maintain operations as well as oversee reorganization or liquidation of MF Global's assets.
In addition to decisions that led to MF Global's bankruptcy, there are allegations that up to $1.2 billion may be missing from customer accounts.”
http://www.lewistownsentinel.com/page/content.detail/id/532241/Is-Freeh-taking-on-too-much-.html?nav=5003

Additionally, his company was retained to review security for the SAT college-admissions test, according to the Educational Testing Service of Princeton, New Jersey, and the New York-based College Board.
http://www.businessweek.com/news/2011-11-27/mf-global-s-bankruptcy-trustee-set-to-be-ex-fbi-director-freeh.html

Dr.Fessel
12-02-2011, 05:00 PM
The article below suggests that former FBI Director Freeh may be overextended which means the investigation into Penn State might take "forever".

“....four days after Freeh was named to head the PSU investigation, he was picked to be the trustee for MF Global's Chapter 11 bankruptcy case.
This, too, would seem to be a time-consuming task. The Associated Press reports that as trustee, Freeh will assist the company in securing financing to maintain operations as well as oversee reorganization or liquidation of MF Global's assets.
In addition to decisions that led to MF Global's bankruptcy, there are allegations that up to $1.2 billion may be missing from customer accounts.”
http://www.lewistownsentinel.com/page/content.detail/id/532241/Is-Freeh-taking-on-too-much-.html?nav=5003
http://www.businessweek.com/news/2011-11-27/mf-global-s-bankruptcy-trustee-set-to-be-ex-fbi-director-freeh.html

A few days ago I read about another big investigation he is doing. Let me see if I can find it.

Dr.Fessel
12-02-2011, 05:07 PM
Cheating Scandal on SAT test. Freeh was hired.

SAT Officials Vow More Security After Cheating Arrests on Long Island
New York Times
Published: Oct. 25, 2011

FARMINGDALE, N.Y. — Stung by the arrest of seven Long Island teenagers accused of cheating on the SAT, the College Board said Tuesday that it was hiring a former F.B.I. director to review its security procedures, and that by the next exams, Nov. 5, it would begin analyzing more test scores for irregularities and increase training for test-center supervisors.

Gaston Caperton, president of the College Board and a former governor of West Virginia, said that in addition to bringing in the former F.B.I. chief, Louis J. Freeh, as a consultant, the College Board was also considering additional safeguards over the next year, including bolstering identification requirements for students taking the SAT and taking digital photographs to ensure they are who they say they are.

http://www.freehsporkinsullivan.com/news/13

Dr.Fessel
12-02-2011, 05:14 PM
An Agent for Change in Online Gaming
National Journal Daily
Published: Oct. 11, 2011

Former FBI Director Louis Freeh is upping the ante in the fight against illegal Internet gambling. He has joined the advisory board of FairPlayUSA, a new coalition of law-enforcement officials, consumer-protection experts, and other groups concerned about the need to regulate Internet gambling.

Although Freeh has held numerous positions over his extensive career, including FBI director, U.S. attorney, and professor, he actually got his start working to eradicate illegal gambling. Freeh joined the FBI as a young agent in New York City in 1975, where he was assigned to an organized-crime squad in Manhattan that focused primarily on illegal gambling activities. He wondered at the time why the FBI was spending so much time working on that kind of case‹most people they caught were released on bail, and back in another wire room within 24 hours.

http://www.freehsporkinsullivan.com/news/10

Dr.Fessel
12-02-2011, 05:17 PM
...the Go-To Guy for High-Profile Corruption Investigations is Louis J. Freeh
FCPA Blog
Published: Aug. 18, 2011

His name hasn't come up yet in the News Corp case. But these days the go-to guy for high-profile corruption investigations is Louis J. Freeh.

He's a former FBI director, federal prosecutor, and U.S. district court judge. Now he's a private citizen, running Freeh Group International Solutions, LLC, "an independent global risk management firm," and partnering at the law firm Freeh Sporkin & Sullivan, LLP (with two other former federal judges including Stanley Sporkin, the 'father of the FCPA').

FIFA -- soccer's international governing body -- hired Freeh in June to investigate allegations of bribery within the organization.

When Jack Warner, FIFA's vice president from Trinidad and Tobago, found out Freeh was on his way there to interview him, Warner quit. He said he'd rather “die first” than meet with Freeh.

Freeh then went to FIFA's headquarters in Zurich, reportedly "with a team of ex-Federal agents to start the inquiry."

http://www.freehsporkinsullivan.com/news/2


LOL LOL LOL That is funny!

J. J. in Phila
12-02-2011, 05:37 PM
On the subject of Penn State fooball hiring practices: the current interim head coach, Tom Bradley, played defensive back at Penn State from 1977-78, which were the first two years of Sandusky's tenure as defensive coordinator. Bradley became a graduate assistant in '79, at the age of 23, and then an assistant on the defensive staff in '80. He worked under Jerry Sandusky for 19 seasons and then took over Sandusky's job as defensive coordinator in 2000 after Sandusky's retirement in '99.


I have the impression that this was fairly widespread, though there were exceptions, in PSU program.




So, there is precedent for Paterno hiring young graduate assistants who played for him. If there is a difference, Penn State's defense is much better than the offense and has been for many years. The receivers McQueary coached have never played at a high level. If, however, McQueary is a good recruiter, as another poster has suggested, then that could explain his position on the staff. Recruiting is very important in college football. :twocents:

Some of McQueary's picks were listed on his bio: http://www.gopsusports.com/sports/m-footbl/mtt/mcqueary_mike00.html

I bluntly have no idea who these people are. :)

Pensfan
12-02-2011, 05:45 PM
...the Go-To Guy for High-Profile Corruption Investigations is Louis J. Freeh
FCPA Blog
Published: Aug. 18, 2011

His name hasn't come up yet in the News Corp case. But these days the go-to guy for high-profile corruption investigations is Louis J. Freeh.

He's a former FBI director, federal prosecutor, and U.S. district court judge. Now he's a private citizen, running Freeh Group International Solutions, LLC, "an independent global risk management firm," and partnering at the law firm Freeh Sporkin & Sullivan, LLP (with two other former federal judges including Stanley Sporkin, the 'father of the FCPA').

FIFA -- soccer's international governing body -- hired Freeh in June to investigate allegations of bribery within the organization.

When Jack Warner, FIFA's vice president from Trinidad and Tobago, found out Freeh was on his way there to interview him, Warner quit. He said he'd rather “die first” than meet with Freeh.

Freeh then went to FIFA's headquarters in Zurich, reportedly "with a team of ex-Federal agents to start the inquiry."

http://www.freehsporkinsullivan.com/news/2


LOL LOL LOL That is funny!
^Wow.

I hope his busy company has hundreds of investigators or they start hiring quickly. Although Second Mile hasn't hired anyone to do an outside investigation, Freeh's employees might find criminal information on it while working around State College and Penn State.

J. J. in Phila
12-02-2011, 05:58 PM
ITA. There were a lot of Eastern European immigrants who moved to W. Pa to work in the coal mines and steel mills. Raising the pitch at the end of every sentence (like English people do when asking a question) is how Russians/Ukrainians normally speak. If one scans the phone book, he/she can see the many Russian/Ukrainian names ending in a "ov", "ova", "ich", or "ko" (Matko, Simko, and etc...). In Pittsburgh, which is near Washington, Pa, there are 7 Russian Orthodox Churches and 2 Ukrainian Orthodox Churches.

The seat of the Carpatho-Russian Orthodox Church in America is in Johnstown, PA. :)

http://www.acrod.org/diocese/about

It is exactly as you said.

BigCat
12-02-2011, 06:00 PM
New article from PennLive:


The attorney for Victim Six -- the now-24-year-old who reported indecent contact with Jerry Sandusky in 1998 when no charges were filed -- says police knew beforehand that he was invited to dine with Sandusky and his wife last summer and reported the experience back to authorities.

http://www.pennlive.com/midstate/index.ssf/2011/12/attorney_for_victim_six_says_d.html

Dr.Fessel
12-02-2011, 06:02 PM
http://www.thenation.com/blog/164862/syracuse-penn-state-and-problem-sun-kings

If that sounds like a horrible echo of the happenings at Penn State University, the similarities don’t end there—and not only because Fine is accused of using his position as coach to find his alleged victims. (Two of his three accusers are former Syracuse ball boys.) It runs deeper: another example in our culture of athletic complicity.

Like the football at Penn State, the basketball program at Syracuse is the cultural, social, and even economic hub of the region. The Syracuse hoops program brings in $19 million in revenue per year, fifth most among basketball programs in the United States and more than storied programs like Kentucky and Indiana.






Like Penn State’s Joe Paterno, Boeheim is more than a coach: he’s an institution. The Syracuse hoops program resembles a kingdom overseen by a benevolent dictator, who, as one source said to me, “tends to see what he wants to see.”.......................







One thing is certain: we need coaches, educators and teachers at our universities. We don’t need benevolent dictators with clipboards. We don’t need collegiate Sun Kings. We don’t need coaches who look across their expansive campuses and say “L’école c’est moi.”

Concerned Papa
12-02-2011, 07:03 PM
New article from PennLive:

Thanks BigCat.


Howard A. Janet, the attorney recently hired to represent Victim Six and his family, issued a statement to The Patriot-News today in response to something Sandusky's attorney, Joe Amendola, said in an interview this week.

“It is grotesque that Sandusky or his lawyer would suggest that a victim of molestation attending a dinner Sandusky invited him to is somehow a defense to the indefensible actions of which Sandusky has been accused.”

http://www.pennlive.com/midstate/index.ssf/2011/12/attorney_for_victim_six_says_d.html

I like that word “grotesque”. Seems to fit rather well, doesn’t it?

I also like the questions this newly hired attorney is asking:


“Why was he arranging to meet with victims while under investigation?”

“Was he trying to tamper with or improperly influence potential witnesses?”

“Was trying to use the victims’ attendance at dinner to discredit their accusations against him part of a devious strategic plan of defense?”

Sounds like ANOTHER attorney’s been reading here at Websleuths! :floorlaugh:

FloatingStar
12-02-2011, 07:54 PM
An impassioned article of someone who benefited from Second Mile:

My Second Mile: How I Grew Up With The Now-Doomed Organization (http://deadspin.com/5863865/my-second-mile-how-i-grew-up-with-the-now+doomed-organization)

"...the Wall Street Journal added another layer to the Penn State scandal: According to a front-page report, Joe Paterno and then-Vice President of Student Affairs Vicky Triponey, Penn State's top disciplinarian, clashed repeatedly over punishing football players for off-the-field crimes. The disputes eventually led to Triponey's resignation in 2007.

Few close observers of the Penn State football program could have been surprised by the report. I doubt even Joe Paterno would deny that, when it came to disciplining his football players, he viewed his law as supreme. If power breeds arrogance, and Joe Paterno built his power over the course of a half a century, we can pretty much guess how he viewed the authority of a career administrator—one without a statue built on campus in her honor.

That didn't mean, however, that Paterno granted blanket immunity to misbehaving football players. Joe's Law often sentenced offenders to community service, and that community service most frequently involved The Second Mile.

The Second Mile is but an extension of the Penn State football program. The former cannot function without the support of the latter."

concentric
12-02-2011, 08:04 PM
This question does knaw at my thinking a bit:

"Apparently, Mr. McQueary golfed and socialized with Mr. Sandusky after March 1, 2002, conduct that is inconsistent with Mr. McQueary's testimony: Most people do not socialize with individuals they believe to be child-rapists," Farrell and fellow attorney Caroline Roberto wrote."

If true, it makes me sort of queasy about McQueary. I've been fired from jobs when I stood up for a principle a lot less serious than witnessing a child rape.

from
Former Penn State administrators' lawyers target McQueary's credibility (http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/news/specialreports/pennstate/s_769626.html)
----------

Prefacing this by saying I don't know McQueary, I don't know his family, Penn State, nor am I interested in football.

Could be wrong, but my feeling is that in golfing and socializing with Sandusky, McQueary could have been acting on his own, or as requested by investigators to act as if nothing was wrong, in order to obtain more information on Sandusky, and buy more time to make sure all of the victims were accounted for, and sufficient evidence was gathered.

I was blasted in the beginning thread, for thinking that McQueary's actions, inactions could be for the greater good. If McQueary had rushed into that shower, pummeled Sandusky bloody in an immediate action to save this child--McQueary could have been seen as the victimizer of Sandusky. Sandusky, in his position of power, explaining all of this away. END OF INVESTIGATION. Especially, if the head of campus police was also complicit in covering up.

Maybe McQueary knew that is the course his immediate intervention would take. Don't you think that these scenarios were running through McQueary's mind? McQueary would most definitely be in shock, major shock. What was McQueary doing? Picture this: McQueary, enters the building with the intent of putting some shoes in a locker. Then, he turns and sees this surreal, sickening scene played out before him. From what I've read, McQueary did not know of the 1998 assault the janitor witnessed (correct me if I'm wrong.)

(So, don't blast me again. I am a rape victim, a stalking victim, a sexual harassment victim, and I know others like myself who never saw any justice, any acknowledgement or understanding for what they suffered, being victimized or betrayed by corrupt or ignorant officials.)

Surely, the fact that McQueary also wanted to preserve his job played into this. However, I wonder if he was so base an individual.

I guess we will see what McQueary's intentions were/are as this disgusting drama plays out.

And, from my general research over the years, I have knowledge of other institutions that have never been thoroughly investigated for their coverup of similar crimes.

FloatingStar
12-02-2011, 08:27 PM
...Could be wrong, but my feeling is that in golfing and socializing with Sandusky, McQueary could have been acting on his own, or as requested by investigators...

Hadn't thought of that - it would be great if true.


...McQueary's actions, inactions could be for the greater good. If McQueary had rushed into that shower, pummeled Sandusky bloody in an immediate action to save this child--McQueary could have been seen as the victimizer of Sandusky. Sandusky, in his position of power, explaining all of this away. END OF INVESTIGATION. Especially, if the head of campus police was also complicit in covering up. Maybe McQueary knew that is the course his immediate intervention would take. Don't you think that these scenarios were running through McQueary's mind? McQueary would most definitely be in shock, major shock.

Yes McQueary's reaction at the scene can't be summarily judged.



From what I've read, McQueary did not know of the 1998 assault the janitor witnessed (correct me if I'm wrong.)

I think you have hit on a key point that if known would greatly play into judgment of McQueary's actions. But what about his father? His father's role is disturbing. Thanks for your critical thinking about McQueary's role.

Pensfan
12-02-2011, 08:31 PM
----------

Prefacing this by saying I don't know McQueary, I don't know his family, Penn State, nor am I interested in football.

Could be wrong, but my feeling is that in golfing and socializing with Sandusky, McQueary could have been acting on his own, or as requested by investigators to act as if nothing was wrong, in order to obtain more information on Sandusky, and buy more time to make sure all of the victims were accounted for, and sufficient evidence was gathered.

I was blasted in the beginning thread, for thinking that McQueary's actions, inactions could be for the greater good. If McQueary had rushed into that shower, pummeled Sandusky bloody in an immediate action to save this child--McQueary could have been seen as the victimizer of Sandusky. Sandusky, in his position of power, explaining all of this away. END OF INVESTIGATION. Especially, if the head of campus police was also complicit in covering up.

Maybe McQueary knew that is the course his immediate intervention would take. Don't you think that these scenarios were running through McQueary's mind? McQueary would most definitely be in shock, major shock. What was McQueary doing? Picture this: McQueary, enters the building with the intent of putting some shoes in a locker. Then, he turns and sees this surreal, sickening scene played out before him. From what I've read, McQueary did not know of the 1998 assault the janitor witnessed (correct me if I'm wrong.)

(So, don't blast me again. I am a rape victim, a stalking victim, a sexual harassment victim, and I know others like myself who never saw any justice, any acknowledgement or understanding for what they suffered, being victimized or betrayed by corrupt or ignorant officials.)

Surely, the fact that McQueary also wanted to preserve his job played into this. However, I wonder if he was so base an individual.

I guess we will see what McQueary's intentions were/are as this disgusting drama plays out.

And, from my general research over the years, I have knowledge of other institutions that have never been thoroughly investigated for their coverup of similar crimes.
Second Mile held their HUGE celebrity gold tournament every summer at the golf courses at Penn State. People showed up just to take pictures of the famous people. For example, Bob Hope was there one year. Sandusky mentioned this in his book. The golf tournament was one of their most successful fundraisers. I wonder if it was stated that McQueary golfed with Sandusky, but actually McQueary only participated in this huge golf tournament with Sandusky and many other people.
http://www.pennlive.com/midstate/index.ssf/2011/11/mcqueary_attended_sandusky_fun.html
http://standardspeaker.com/news/ex-coach-led-two-lives-that-often-intersected-1.1234946#axzz1fQYvNpTt

BigCat
12-02-2011, 08:38 PM
Second Mile held their HUGE celebrity gold tournament every summer at the golf courses at Penn State. People showed up just to take pictures of the famous people. For example, Bob Hope was there one year. Sandusky mentioned this in his book. The golf tournament was one of there most successful fundraisers. I wonder it was stated that McQueary golfed with Sandusky, but actually McQueary only participated in this huge golf tournament with Sandusky and many other people.
http://www.pennlive.com/midstate/index.ssf/2011/11/mcqueary_attended_sandusky_fun.html

I'm thinking he participated in the golf tournament. Just a guess.

ynotdivein
12-02-2011, 08:45 PM
Please remember that WS is a victim-friendly forum. Jokes or making light of serious allegations of abuse are not in keeping with our TOS. You can review the TOS and rules of etiquette here: http://www.websleuths.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=160

Where this post falls is random.

Reader
12-02-2011, 11:34 PM
'Too much has gone into' Jerry Sandusky's preliminary hearing to delay it, local police say

http://www.pennlive.com/midstate/index.ssf/2011/12/too_much_has_gone_into_jerry_s.html#incart_hbx

.........A horde of media is expected to descend on the courthouse in picturesque downtown Bellefonte for the former Nittany Lion assistant football coach’s Dec. 13 hearing.

Borough Police Chief Shawn Weaver and Centre County Sheriff Denny Nau both said Thursday that they’ve been assured by Judge Robert E. Scott, a senior judge from Westmoreland County, that the date will not be moved.

The only way it won’t happen is if Sandusky waives the hearing, they said. Sandusky’s attorney, Joe Amendola, has said that is not a possibility he is entertaining.

“If we get three feet of snow, we’re still having the hearing,” Nau said. “Because too much has gone into this, the seating, this lottery, the parking, the security.”


More at link....

Reader
12-02-2011, 11:50 PM
Victim preparing to testify at Jerry Sandusky hearing, attorney says

http://www.pennlive.com/midstate/index.ssf/2011/11/victim_one_preparing_to_testif.html

Victim One has been notified by police that he most likely will have to testify at a preliminary hearing scheduled for mid December in the Jerry Sandusky sex-abuse case.

One of the newly hired Philadelphia-area attorneys now representing the 17-year-old boy -- who was the first to come forward and the last of eight chronological victims outlined in a grand jury presentment against former Penn State assistant football coach Sandusky -- says one of the first tasks as the boy's attorney is making sure that testimony goes as smoothly as possible.

"First and foremost, we have been around the clock, literally, deflecting attention away," said Michael Boni. Boni and Slade H. McLaughlin were hired Monday by Victim One's family.
---------

........Boni said a state police corporal told Victim One that Sandusky's attorney, Joe Amendola, does not plan to waive the hearing.

Amendola confirmed that Tuesday morning, saying, "We're defending against the charges."

More at link...

Reader
12-03-2011, 12:37 AM
http://www.poconorecord.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20111130/SPORTS90/111300315

STATE COLLEGE — All of the alleged victims identified in the child sex charges against former Penn State assistant coach Jerry Sandusky are expected to testify next month in open court, a lawyer for one of the victims told FOXNews.com, despite claims by Sandusky's defense team that some of the victims would recant.

Slade McLaughlin, one of two Philadelphia-area attorneys representing "Victim One," suggested there was little doubt about the testimony.
--------

The grand jury report notes that two of the victims have not been identified despite eyewitness accounts.

The other six are expected to take the stand at the upcoming hearing set for Dec. 13, including the Clinton County youth known so far only as Victim One. The alleged victim kickstarted the investigation by telling authorities he was being abused by Sandusky, a former defensive coordinator under legendary football coach Joe Paterno.
------

Amendola downplayed the upcoming testimony in an email Tuesday to FOXNews.com......

"We believe there's a significant possibility at least one and perhaps two of the alleged victims may testify no sexual contact occurred between them and Jerry Sandusky," he said, ........

More at link...

Pensfan
12-03-2011, 12:52 AM
A Penn State accuser who dined with Jerry Sandusky this summer did so only after getting permission from police, the man's lawyer said Friday as he blasted suggestions that alleged victims remained friendly with the former Penn State coach.
"Police gave their seal of approval for him to attend. They even wanted him to wear an electronic listening device," attorney Howard Janet said Friday. He also called into question Sandusky's motives for inviting the man to dinner while the ex-coach knew he was under investigation.
He would not say if the investigation came up in conversation that night, or detail what his client later reported back to police. The client didn't wear a wire because he was nervous, Janet said.

Read more: http://www.newsobserver.com/2011/12/02/1685956/sandusky-accuser-says-police-knew.html#ixzz1fRbvDBiO
http://www.newsobserver.com/2011/12/02/1685956/sandusky-accuser-says-police-knew.html#ixzz1fRb3ejFK

Where are the witness tampering charges? Can they not charge him because the boy/man didn't wear a wire?

J. J. in Phila
12-03-2011, 01:09 AM
A Penn State accuser who dined with Jerry Sandusky this summer did so only after getting permission from police, the man's lawyer said Friday as he blasted suggestions that alleged victims remained friendly with the former Penn State coach.
"Police gave their seal of approval for him to attend. They even wanted him to wear an electronic listening device," attorney Howard Janet said Friday. He also called into question Sandusky's motives for inviting the man to dinner while the ex-coach knew he was under investigation.
He would not say if the investigation came up in conversation that night, or detail what his client later reported back to police. The client didn't wear a wire because he was nervous, Janet said.

Read more: http://www.newsobserver.com/2011/12/02/1685956/sandusky-accuser-says-police-knew.html#ixzz1fRbvDBiO
http://www.newsobserver.com/2011/12/02/1685956/sandusky-accuser-says-police-knew.html#ixzz1fRb3ejFK

Where are the witness tampering charges? Can they not charge him because the boy/man didn't wear a wire?

I think Mr. Amendola just got a taste of how bad this is for his client. He opened Sandusky up on this, with very little doubt that Sandusky said, **Go ahead, the kid will back me up.**

As I've said before, Mr. Amendola is a good defense attorney. He wouldn't have tried to deflect this unless Sandusky told him about the dinner.

Pensfan
12-03-2011, 01:11 AM
Why is there not a federal or state investigation into the business, The Second Mile, that Sandusky started and then used to find his victims for possibly 34 years?

Reader
12-03-2011, 01:55 AM
I think Mr. Amendola just got a taste of how bad this is for his client. He opened Sandusky up on this, with very little doubt that Sandusky said, **Go ahead, the kid will back me up.**

As I've said before, Mr. Amendola is a good defense attorney. He wouldn't have tried to deflect this unless Sandusky told him about the dinner.


I wonder if they are waiting for victim 1, and any others who were contacted by Sandusky during the investigation, to testify under oath at the preliminary hearing about what was discussed...then maybe there will be solid grounds to charge him with witness tampering.

Pensfan
12-03-2011, 02:12 AM
Why have the principal at Central Valley High School and the athletic director/coach not been fired or charged with failure to report? They refused to call the police or CPS after a student reported Sandusky's sexual abuse to them.

Reader
12-03-2011, 02:25 AM
Why is there not a federal or state investigation into the business, The Second Mile, that Sandusky started and then used to find his victims for possibly 34 years?

I just searched and didn't find anything about an outside investigation, but at the time the CEO left, the school said they would do an internal investigation "to assess internal policies, procedures and processes; and make recommendations regarding the organization's future operations. They hope to have findings of that investigation by the end of December", and will cooperate with the AG office.....they also pointed out that although JS is charged with abusing Second Mile children, none of the alleged acts took place in their facilities or events.

I imagine that in the LE investigation of JS they are including all his involvement at Second Mile, so it's kind of indirectly looking at them.

Previous article:

http://www.fox43.com/news/wpmt-second-mile-ceo-steps-down,0,3584061.story

Reader
12-03-2011, 02:29 AM
Why have the principal at Central Valley High School and the athletic director/coach not been fired or charged with failure to report? They refused to call the police or CPS after a student reported Sandusky's sexual abuse to them.

No idea! But it's not over yet...

LRinCA
12-03-2011, 03:36 AM
Why is there not a federal or state investigation into the business, The Second Mile, that Sandusky started and then used to find his victims for possibly 34 years?

And why didn't they raid the business so as to freeze the assets, records, etc.? As it is, they gave them two years to tidy things up/move things around.

LRinCA
12-03-2011, 03:51 AM
Now flipping on the plea deal: http://www.pennlive.com/midstate/index.ssf/2011/12/jerry_sanduskys_lawyer_clarifi.html


From the link:

And Joe Amendola, the lawyer lambasted by some for his strategy in defending the former Nittany Lions assistant football coach, can see what might lie ahead. At some point, Amendola says, he may need to have a conversation with Sandusky about pleading guilty.


I've been out of the loop on this for about a week but if I wanted to be conspiracy-minded about this I would wonder if Sandusky isn't taking the fall for something much, much bigger. I'm not saying I think he's innocent. I don't think he is. I keep going back to the line about some kids not taking to his special program or method (or however it was worded).

Concerned Papa
12-03-2011, 04:55 AM
I don’t think it’s any coincidence that during the same time frame of "last summer" vs "several weeks ago", Sandusky was having dinner with these victims AND attorney Amendola was seeing one of the same victims and his family in his office, WHILE A GRAND JURY INVESTIGATION WAS UNDERWAY.


Amendola, as part of an outline of his defense, said Victims Six and Two had dinner with the Sandusky family last summer.

http://www.pennlive.com/midstate/index.ssf/2011/12/attorney_for_victim_six_says_d.html


Attorney Joe Amendola also said that, several weeks ago, a man who says he is Victim Two came to his office. "He sat here with his mother and brother and said he was not a victim," Amendola said.

http://www.pennlive.com/midstate/index.ssf/2011/11/sanduskys_attorney_says_severa.html

I hope at some point attorney Amendola is faced with having to answer these three questions posed by Victim #6’s new attorney, Howard A. Janet.


“Why was he arranging to meet with victims while under investigation?”

“Was he trying to tamper with or improperly influence potential witnesses?”

“Was trying to use the victims’ attendance at dinner to discredit their accusations against him part of a devious strategic plan of defense?”

http://www.pennlive.com/midstate/index.ssf/2011/12/attorney_for_victim_six_says_d.html

It seems obvious to me that this was indeed a “devious strategic plan of defense” which I believe can be more accurately described as witness tampering.

Concerned Papa
12-03-2011, 04:58 AM
Amendola, in response to Janet's statements, said the dinner was a friendly get-together that included Sandusky's wife, Dottie, "who knew both men well," he said. "Dottie thought it was a pleasant evening among friends."

http://www.pennlive.com/midstate/index.ssf/2011/12/attorney_for_victim_six_says_d.html

Wonder how that lovely little dinner is sittin with Miss Dottie NOW?

wfgodot
12-03-2011, 05:30 AM
He's still talking. And talking. Results of four-hour interview with NYT's Jo Becker:

Center of Penn State Scandal, Sandusky Tells His Own Story (http://www.nytimes.com/2011/12/03/sports/ncaafootball/at-center-of-penn-state-scandal-sandusky-tells-his-own-story.html?_r=1&pagewanted=all?src=tp) (New York Times, 03 December 2011)

Concerned Papa
12-03-2011, 06:48 AM
He's still talking. And talking. Results of four-hour interview with NYT's Jo Becker:

Center of Penn State Scandal, Sandusky Tells His Own Story (http://www.nytimes.com/2011/12/03/sports/ncaafootball/at-center-of-penn-state-scandal-sandusky-tells-his-own-story.html?_r=1&pagewanted=all?src=tp) (New York Times, 03 December 2011)

Prosecutors have gotta love these interviews this freak's attorney keeps allowing him to give:


In the grand jury report, prosecutors cited Mr. Sandusky’s attempts to reach some of his accusers. He acknowledged that he reached out to at least one, but said he thought the young man might be a character witness on his behalf, and was unaware that prosecutors had listed him as a victim.

Unaware he was listed as a victim?


Joe Amendola declined comment saying he has not read the entire lawsuit, but he confirmed when they got word of the Attorney General’s investigation of Sandusky they hired a private investigator.

“Starting with the first allegation as set forth in the presentment regarding alleged Victim 1, yes we had a private investigator check in on that about three years ago.”

http://www.wjactv.com/news/news/sanduskys-attorney-reacts-lawsuit/nFqnT/

For crying out loud, three years ago they hired a private investigator to "check in on that", starting with Victim #1, and this clown is trying to claim he didn't know who the prosecutors had listed as victims?

Keep on talking :floorlaugh:

ynotdivein
12-03-2011, 08:45 AM
He's still talking. And talking. Results of four-hour interview with NYT's Jo Becker:

Center of Penn State Scandal, Sandusky Tells His Own Story (http://www.nytimes.com/2011/12/03/sports/ncaafootball/at-center-of-penn-state-scandal-sandusky-tells-his-own-story.html?_r=1&pagewanted=all?src=tp) (New York Times, 03 December 2011)

I spent some time yesterday revisiting the PA clergy sex abuse thread, especially some of the "case studies" of these predators. The parallels between the behaviors of the clergy perps and Sandusky's behavior are shocking (and I might add, revolting). The grooming, the denials, the half-admissions, the complete failure to change the behaviors even when it was apparent that others had suspicions at the least and full knowledge at best...

Am only three paragraphs into this article (thanks WF!) and I just can't stop thinking about that. :banghead:

ynotdivein
12-03-2011, 09:00 AM
From http://www.nytimes.com/2011/12/03/sports/ncaafootball/at-center-of-penn-state-scandal-sandusky-tells-his-own-story.html?pagewanted=3&_r=2

"“I used to have a lot of contact with a lot of people and so that circle is diminished, and as it diminished, you know Bo is still there,” he said of his dog. “And I swear he understands. I swear he knows. And you know I love him dearly for that.”"

:shocked2:

Not Dottie, Jerry? Wow.

Concerned Papa
12-03-2011, 10:12 AM
From http://www.nytimes.com/2011/12/03/sports/ncaafootball/at-center-of-penn-state-scandal-sandusky-tells-his-own-story.html?pagewanted=3&_r=2

"“I used to have a lot of contact with a lot of people and so that circle is diminished, and as it diminished, you know Bo is still there,” he said of his dog. “And I swear he understands. I swear he knows. And you know I love him dearly for that.”"

:shocked2:

Not Dottie, Jerry? Wow.

Poor dog......

stilettos
12-03-2011, 10:13 AM
From http://www.nytimes.com/2011/12/03/sports/ncaafootball/at-center-of-penn-state-scandal-sandusky-tells-his-own-story.html?pagewanted=3&_r=2

"“I used to have a lot of contact with a lot of people and so that circle is diminished, and as it diminished, you know Bo is still there,” he said of his dog. “And I swear he understands. I swear he knows. And you know I love him dearly for that.”"

:shocked2:

Not Dottie, Jerry? Wow.

I am kinda worried about the dog.

Filly
12-03-2011, 10:59 AM
I am kinda worried about the dog.

Man, I thought the same thing when I saw part of that interview.

Creep factor off the charts.

He uses the phrase "Good grief". I think "Who are you, Charlie Brown?"

On an aside I wondered whose house that was where he was interviewed.

Basically this dude seriously believes himself IMO. If he don't he's doing a good job of "acting".

Once again the "Are you sexually attracted to young boys?" comes into question. This dude trips up and looks to his lawyer who finally butts in.

Tipstaff
12-03-2011, 11:20 AM
From http://www.nytimes.com/2011/12/03/sports/ncaafootball/at-center-of-penn-state-scandal-sandusky-tells-his-own-story.html?pagewanted=3&_r=2

"“I used to have a lot of contact with a lot of people and so that circle is diminished, and as it diminished, you know Bo is still there,” he said of his dog. “And I swear he understands. I swear he knows. And you know I love him dearly for that.”"

:shocked2:

Not Dottie, Jerry? Wow.


Sandusky's comments ring like a backward or subconscious admissions. He sends my hinky meter way off the chart.

Concerned Papa
12-03-2011, 11:47 AM
Man, I thought the same thing when I saw part of that interview.

Creep factor off the charts.

He uses the phrase "Good grief". I think "Who are you, Charlie Brown?"

On an aside I wondered whose house that was where he was interviewed.

Basically this dude seriously believes himself IMO. If he don't he's doing a good job of "acting".

Once again the "Are you sexually attracted to young boys?" comes into question. This dude trips up and looks to his lawyer who finally butts in.BBM

First sentence, second page of the article;


During the interview, conducted at the home of his lawyer....

Filly
12-03-2011, 12:04 PM
BBM

First sentence, second page of the article;

Thanks CP. I saw it on TV, and haven't read it yet. Will do.

Steely Dan
12-03-2011, 12:44 PM
You can listen to the interview here; http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2011/12/03/sports/ncaafootball/20111202-sandusky-audio.html?ref=ncaafootball

Steely Dan
12-03-2011, 12:56 PM
Why is there not a federal or state investigation into the business, The Second Mile, that Sandusky started and then used to find his victims for possibly 34 years?

There is an investigation into second mile going on, but I agree a Federal investigation is needed; http://www.nytimes.com/2011/12/03/sports/ncaafootball/at-center-of-penn-state-scandal-sandusky-tells-his-own-story.html?_r=1&pagewanted=2


...It is unclear whether the supervisors or directors of the charity knew of Mr. Sandusky’s setting up bank accounts or giving away donated gifts. Investigators with the Pennsylvania attorney general’s office have subpoenaed the financial records of the charity, but say they have been alarmed to learn that some records from some years are missing....

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/11/19/sports/ncaafootball/charity-founded-by-sandusky-plans-to-fold.html?_r=1

...On Sunday, the charity’s board of directors authorized the hiring of Lynne M. Abraham and the law firm Archer & Greiner to conduct an independent investigation into the Second Mile. The investigation will seek to discover the extent of contact Sandusky had with children who went through the program, when the program learned about various allegations against Sandusky, and how it handled them....

BennyProfane
12-03-2011, 02:30 PM
This looks like another peculiarity in Amendola's narrative on the dinner with Victim Six:

http://usnews.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2011/12/02/9174552-sandusky-accuser-says-police-knew-of-recent-dinner
He told The Associated Press on Friday that another dinner guest that night was the man identified in the grand jury report as Victim No. 2, who Sandusky is accused of sodomizing in a Penn State shower.
Janet said another man identified as a victim in the grand jury report attended, but he did not specify who that was.

If Howard Janet is representing Victim Six, and if Victims Two & Six allegedly don't know each other, how did Victim Six know that his dinner companion that night was any victim at all, specifically Victim Two? According to the GJP, the only two victims who knew each other were Victims Six & Five.


From the same article. Seems like Amendola is taking a passive-aggressive approach to outing victims(?):
The grand jury report said the boy had not been located. Amendola has said he believes the alleged victim is being represented by a State College attorney who did not respond to messages left by the AP late Friday.

Maybe Amendola isn't willing to take the fall for outing the kid individually, so instead he outs the kid's lawyer. Knowing the tabloids (and AP) and how they behave, it figures that they'll dog the lawyer until he/she meets with someone who fits the profile of a Sandusky victim -- white male, early twenties. Right now, it's only phone tag, but how long will that last?
If the guy's name & photograph are splashed across the cover of a tabloid (don't be too shocked, TMZ has done it), that would serve as a thinly-veiled threat to other victims who have not yet approached LE to keep quiet.

concentric
12-03-2011, 02:37 PM
I noticed that "reached out to" has been used as a descriptive term in several different ways by JS in news interviews. Odd, and disturbing IMO. Sorry, I haven't been able to put together a list of all of the ways he has used this term. Search it in connection with him, and you will begin to see.

ynotdivein
12-03-2011, 02:41 PM
Interesting points, Benny. And by the way, :welcome: to WS!

I've been scratching my head over Amendola's approach to this ever since he allowed the Costas interview. The man has a plan, no doubt about that. IMO, it seems to involve:

1 - Get Jerry out there in the media to tell "his story"/counteract the claims in the GJ presentment & do image rehabilitation--look, he's just this big loveable misunderstood lug of a guy (though this may seem insane to those of us who follow these things closely, think about all the potential jurors and just regular citizens who don't, and who are only reading whatever story pops up on the top of MSM websites?); and

2 - Attempt to discredit the victims, by any means necessary.

concentric
12-03-2011, 03:12 PM
I know there are people in this world who still choose to ignore, lessen, distract from, pass the blame or outright deny that children are sexually abused, despite the overwhelming evidence from years of hearing about these cases in the news.

They simply do not want to confront the truth. So, these types of persons might choose to latch onto the interviews by JS in the media, as reinforcing their denial.

However, I think there are enough of us who have either been victims, or who have known victims, who have not been afraid of confronting the truth, no matter how assaultive that is on our minds, no matter what memories these crimes dredge up. We know what it is like to live in hell on earth, and we are for the victims.

Talina
12-03-2011, 03:29 PM
These interviews Sandusky keeps giving, and this latest one with his attorney there just astound me.

Look for his attorney to be the first to scream too much media and he can't get a fair trial due to jury pool knowing too much about the case. Typical.

concentric
12-03-2011, 04:02 PM
I'm sick of these "defense attorneys" being allowed to determine what goes on in the courts, and in our media.

It seems there are always a majority of defense attorneys spouting their opinions on the media.

BigCat
12-03-2011, 04:11 PM
SuePa is not happy:


Sue Paterno tells NBC "You all (press) made him (Joe) guilty before anything came out, and it started with the Times (NY Times)."

http://twitter.com/#!/johnclarknbc10/status/143009447709638656

J. J. in Phila
12-03-2011, 04:23 PM
This looks like another peculiarity in Amendola's narrative on the dinner with Victim Six:

http://usnews.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2011/12/02/9174552-sandusky-accuser-says-police-knew-of-recent-dinner
He told The Associated Press on Friday that another dinner guest that night was the man identified in the grand jury report as Victim No. 2, who Sandusky is accused of sodomizing in a Penn State shower.
Janet said another man identified as a victim in the grand jury report attended, but he did not specify who that was.

If Howard Janet is representing Victim Six, and if Victims Two & Six allegedly don't know each other, how did Victim Six know that his dinner companion that night was any victim at all, specifically Victim Two? According to the GJP, the only two victims who knew each other were Victims Six & Five.


LE knows who they are. They might have known and told.

concentric
12-03-2011, 04:24 PM
I think that what pains me the most, is the fact that JS initially presented himself as "a hero" to these children. Then he betrayed them, in the most evil, diabolical way possible.

Dr.Fessel
12-03-2011, 04:28 PM
SuePa is not happy: I wonder what she is talking about? His failure to protect a rape victim and the Grand Jury presentment did him in.

octobermoon
12-03-2011, 04:50 PM
Just damn. Listening to this and wondering how in the world the people around him, including HIS wife didn't, couldn't, or wouldn't see what he was doing.

:(

Oh and I will throw in his mother who had to push him into a relationship with Dottie.

Can't tell me they didn't suspect or flat out know.

Rant/off

octobermoon
12-03-2011, 05:09 PM
One more thing, he misses his grandchildren??? GMAFB (sorry mods)

One of those grandchildren has accused him.

:puke:

HMSHood
12-03-2011, 05:30 PM
You can listen to the interview here; http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2011/12/03/sports/ncaafootball/20111202-sandusky-audio.html?ref=ncaafootball

The interview is disturbing. He clearly cannot keep a straight face. What a pervert! :furious:

Concerned Papa
12-03-2011, 05:44 PM
I’m starting to think the Prosecution may be serving as this clown’s press agents and are setting up these interviews. I’ve never seen anything like this before:


Mr. Sandusky, in the interview, confirmed aspects of what prosecutors have said was a manipulative scheme.

“They’ve taken everything that I ever did for any young person and twisted it to say that my motives were sexual or whatever,” Mr. Sandusky said. He added: “I had kid after kid after kid......”

The physical aspect of the relationships “just happened that way.”

Mr. Sandusky worried that having some of the children with him at hotels before games, or on the sideline during games, risked being seen......

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/12/03/sports/ncaafootball/at-center-of-penn-state-scandal-sandusky-tells-his-own-story.html?pagewanted=1&_r=2

His own lawyer is steadily tightening the noose around his neck as well:


Mr. Amendola said, speaking to his client, “the people who are painting you as a monster are saying, ‘Well, they’re the types of things that people who are pedophiles exhibit.’ ”

ThoughtFox
12-03-2011, 05:49 PM
From http://www.nytimes.com/2011/12/03/sports/ncaafootball/at-center-of-penn-state-scandal-sandusky-tells-his-own-story.html?pagewanted=3&_r=2

"“I used to have a lot of contact with a lot of people and so that circle is diminished, and as it diminished, you know Bo is still there,” he said of his dog. “And I swear he understands. I swear he knows. And you know I love him dearly for that.”"

:shocked2:

Not Dottie, Jerry? Wow.

Yeah, the dog knows that his master used to like to play out in the yard while staring at the elementary school playground behind the house.

And I wish the dog could tell us what he knows about the boys who stayed with Sandusky in that house.

Maybe Jerry is being realistic for a change. His loyal dog is probably the only friend he has left.

ynotdivein
12-03-2011, 06:26 PM
http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2011/12/03/sports/ncaafootball/20111202-sandusky-audio.html?ref=ncaafootball

Second audio clip down on this page, about one minute in, after JS talks about his youth... He's talking about growing up in a rec center.

JS: "I remember playing with the handicapped people, we would play cards and... and and there were, you know I mean even some of them were mentally handicapped, they were dear friends of mine, I did a lot of, a lot of things with them, uh and I got married it was like a divorce... (laughs) they were, the one was upset with me because he wasn't going to see me anymore so, um, and ya know I got into trouble for throwing water balloons and things like (unclear) school (unclear) did mischievious things also..."

(snip)

"My mother actually asked her out..." ("her" being Dottie) "My mother was the first one... think she asked her to go to the softball game I was playing in.... and then I took her home from the game... I mean, I was a 'big bopper' (chuckles). [Interviewer: Was that your first girlfriend, did you marry your first love?] (Chuckling) Well, that wasn't my first love, (laugh) I didn't have that many girlfriends or anything like that, that wasn't, that wasn't my style.

Pensfan
12-03-2011, 06:56 PM
If McQueary told Gary Schultz, the head of the Penn State campus police/vice president for business at Penn State, then he told the “correct” police department. (Could he have immediately called the FBI and the PA State Police? Yes. I am not being apologetic for him. I'm just stating the facts.)

"He didn't come to State College police," State College Police Chief Thomas King told ABC News. "The crime happened on campus and we don't have jurisdiction on campus."
http://news.yahoo.com/jerry-sandusky-im-not-monster-everyone-made-130407999.html

Supporting this is the fact that the campus police were the police that worked with the DA on the 1998 molestation. It was the Penn State campus police that hid in the room and listened to the mom confront Sandusky in 1998.

Penn State's main campus police department has 56 police officers. The main campus has almost 50,000 students and 40,000 employees, but some employees are also students. (I can't find statistics on how many students and employees are on that campus during the daytime.) The population of the city of State College without the students is 42,000. Logically, the campus police force is larger or equivalent to the size of the city’s police department.

Pensfan
12-03-2011, 07:07 PM
One more thing, he misses his grandchildren??? GMAFB (sorry mods)

One of those grandchildren has accused him.

:puke:
In one article, Amendola is quoted saying that two grandchildren have accused Sandusky. :puke: :puke:

Pensfan
12-03-2011, 07:13 PM
Yeah, the dog knows that his master used to like to play out in the yard while staring at the elementary school playground behind the house.

And I wish the dog could tell us what he knows about the boys who stayed with Sandusky in that house.

Maybe Jerry is being realistic for a change. His loyal dog is probably the only friend he has left.
Pedophiles frequently have other paraphilias. Beastiality is a paraphilia....just saying. :innocent: I hope doggy digs a hole under the fence and escapes.

Linda7NJ
12-03-2011, 07:21 PM
Interesting points, Benny. And by the way, :welcome: to WS!

I've been scratching my head over Amendola's approach to this ever since he allowed the Costas interview. The man has a plan, no doubt about that. IMO, it seems to involve:

1 - Get Jerry out there in the media to tell "his story"/counteract the claims in the GJ presentment & do image rehabilitation--look, he's just this big loveable misunderstood lug of a guy (though this may seem insane to those of us who follow these things closely, think about all the potential jurors and just regular citizens who don't, and who are only reading whatever story pops up on the top of MSM websites?); and

2 - Attempt to discredit the victims, by any means necessary.
. and the victims parents, and witnesses etc...

We've seen this all before............. Nothing wrong with being "attracted" to young boys & sharing a shower. Sounds all too much like " Nothing wrong with sharing a bed" we all heard & saw a famous, now deceased celebrity say on national tv. EVERYONE learned of all the grooming that went on. The SAME sick twisted smile erupting from his lips & glazed over eyes when talking about his attraction to children.

We saw the defense smear the mother of one victim, learned of multiple pay off others and we saw the machine that knew and never said a word cause they were making money. The people that saw & told were also smeared and defamed.

I get the same sick feeling in the pit of my stomach & like crying with this case. So many people failed all the victims.

Hopefully, this sicko won't get away with it. I will not be surprised if he does.

IMO

ThoughtFox
12-03-2011, 07:35 PM
I hear you, Linda7NJ! :blowkiss:

And what bothers me about that dinner to which the victims were invited is that now they want us to believe it was just a couple of "buddies" sitting down for a friendly meal, as if they wouldn't be intimidated just being with Sandusky again. And the idea of his wife sitting there like just another enabler makes my skin crawl.

Same thing for JoePa's wife. :furious: She wants to pitch Paterno and herself as victims, which just shows how little empathy they have with these children who are scarred for life physically, mentally, and emotionally.

Things are just coming home to roost for people who ignored evil in their midst. :cow:

Dr.Fessel
12-03-2011, 07:41 PM
Bill would permit experts to testify about sex abuse victim behavior






Pennsylvania is the only state that does not allow expert witness testimony about victim behavior to be offered during sexual assault criminal trials, such as the upcoming proceedings against former Penn State football defensive coordinator Jerry Sandusky.

A bill in the state Senate Judiciary Committee would change that, and the Pennsylvania Coalition Against Rape wants to see the measure expedited into law.

House Bill 1264, sponsored by state Rep. Cherelle Parker, D-Philadelphia, and co-sponsored by Rep. Kate Harper, R-Montgomery County, would allow experts to address questions about victim behavior in sex assault cases, including why a person abused in childhood might wait for decades to report the assaults.

"If victims finally get the courage to come forward and report the abuse, they should not be further victimized by having the very normal behaviors and reactions of a sex assault victim looked upon as abnormal by a court or a jury who simply isn't educated in these things," Parker said on Friday

Read more: Bill would permit experts to testify about sex abuse victim behavior - Pittsburgh Tribune-Review http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/news/regional/s_770237.html#ixzz1fWB9mDzl

MaryNo
12-03-2011, 07:42 PM
This looks like another peculiarity in Amendola's narrative on the dinner with Victim Six:

http://usnews.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2011/12/02/9174552-sandusky-accuser-says-police-knew-of-recent-dinner
He told The Associated Press on Friday that another dinner guest that night was the man identified in the grand jury report as Victim No. 2, who Sandusky is accused of sodomizing in a Penn State shower.
Janet said another man identified as a victim in the grand jury report attended, but he did not specify who that was.

If Howard Janet is representing Victim Six, and if Victims Two & Six allegedly don't know each other, how did Victim Six know that his dinner companion that night was any victim at all, specifically Victim Two? According to the GJP, the only two victims who knew each other were Victims Six & Five.


Respectfully snipped and bolded by me ...

Earlier on when they started "stumping" in the media, Amendola stated that they'd met with the victim they believed to be Victim #2, and he was stating that he hadn't been raped. If true, Amendola/defense team knows whether or not Victim #2 was at the dinner.

I apologize for not having a link handy.

All of this is just my opinion. I am grateful for the opportunity to express it.

Linda7NJ
12-03-2011, 07:43 PM
If this one starts talking about how he didn't have a childhood & thinks he's Peter Pan my head is going to explode!

The only hope I have is that now a whole nother genre of people "sports people" will learn how grooming works, whose vulnerable and how adapt these freaks are at selecting their victims. All the while appearing to most to be fine upstanding (charitable sometimes)...but usually respected citizens. Face it.... if behaved like total jerks and wore a dirty trench coat and tried to lure kids on the corner...children wouldn't fall prey at the rate they do.

Pensfan
12-03-2011, 07:44 PM
. and the victims parents, and witnesses etc...

We've seen this all before............. Nothing wrong with being "attracted" to young boys & sharing a shower. Sounds all too much like " Nothing wrong with sharing a bed" we all heard & saw a famous, now deceased celebrity say on national tv. EVERYONE learned of all the grooming that went on. The SAME sick twisted smile erupting from his lips & glazed over eyes when talking about his attraction to children.

We saw the defense smear the mother of one victim, learned of multiple pay off others and we saw the machine that knew and never said a word cause they were making money. The people that saw & told were also smeared and defamed.

I get the same sick feeling in the pit of my stomach & like crying with this case. So many people failed all the victims.

Hopefully, this sicko won't get away with it. I will not be surprised if he does.

IMO
Hopefully the independent investigation into The Second Mile will be completely truthful. Even if it isn't and the jurors don't believe all the kids' statements, Sandusky could be hung by bank records. In Pennsylvania an adult has sign on a child's account. It is beyond suspicious that he was setting up bank accounts for the same kids that state he molested/raped them.

Linda7NJ
12-03-2011, 08:07 PM
Hopefully the independent investigation into The Second Mile will be completely truthful. Even if it isn't and the jurors don't believe all the kids' statements, Sandusky could be hung by bank records. In Pennsylvania an adult has sign on a child's account. It is beyond suspicious that he was setting up bank accounts for the same kids that state he molested/raped them.

Don't count on it.

The other famous one, that will remain nameless, paid millions to atleast two accusers...made no difference. A good defense lawyer can lie and lie and spin the crap out of it.

we're already hearing shades of how Jerry is just a big kid..:banghead:

Dr.Fessel
12-03-2011, 08:10 PM
The interviews Sandusky is doing now are starting to make a little sense to me now that I have learned the State of Pennsylvania does not allow experts to "to address questions about victim behavior in sex assault cases, including why a person abused in childhood might wait for decades to report the assaults."

The more they can get out now about the victims not coming out sooner, the weirdness of the victims going to dinners and stuff is a plus since the state will not be able to explain that behavior during trial.

Quote came from:
Pittsburgh Tribune-Review http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/news/specialreports/pennstate/s_770237.html#ixzz1fWH0l5D4

Pensfan
12-03-2011, 08:14 PM
If this one starts talking about how he didn't have a childhood & thinks he's Peter Pan my head is going to explode!

The only hope I have is that now a whole nother genre of people "sports people" will learn how grooming works, whose vulnerable and how adapt these freaks are at selecting their victims. All the while appearing to most to be fine upstanding (charitable sometimes)...but usually respected citizens. Face it.... if behaved like total jerks and wore a dirty trench coat and tried to lure kids on the corner...children wouldn't fall prey at the rate they do.
I hope everyone that is involved in any type of organization that involves children is learning about how pedophiles try to enter organizations to gain legitimate access to children. Sadly, Sandusky established The Second Mile in the 1970s when pedophilia was not a topic that was discussed or even researched.

The Stranger Danger program is very important, but fixated pedophiles are not strangers. There should be a national campaign to educate parents that it is not just strangers that prey on children. Mr. Overly Helpful could also be dangerous.

Pensfan
12-03-2011, 08:21 PM
The interviews Sandusky is doing now are starting to make a little sense to me now that I have learned the State of Pennsylvania does not allow experts to "to address questions about victim behavior in sex assault cases, including why a person abused in childhood might wait for decades to report the assaults."

The more they can get out now about the victims not coming out sooner, the weirdness of the victims going to dinners and stuff is a plus since the state will not be able to explain that behavior during trial.

Quote came from:
Pittsburgh Tribune-Review http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/news/specialreports/pennstate/s_770237.html#ixzz1fWH0l5D4
I agree. Hopefully House Bill 1264 will be passed before the trial starts.

Did anyone read anything about what gifts Sandusky and Sarge gave the boys at that dinner? I wonder what Sandusky used to try to bribe the victims to come to their house for dinner. I hope it was something tangible since that one victim did not wear a wire. Was it stated anywhere if the other victim that went to dinner agreed to wear a wire?

List of PA representatives to contact about supporting House Bill 1264:
http://www.legis.state.pa.us/cfdocs/legis/home/findyourlegislator/index.cfm?CFID=92294808&CFTOKEN=19815659
http://www.legis.state.pa.us/cfdocs/legis/home/member_information/representatives_alpha.cfm

ThoughtFox
12-03-2011, 08:27 PM
Through the centuries people have instinctively known that "nice" adults in authority are often just waiting to pounce on innocent children.

Read Jane Eyre or David Copperfield for examples.

Older stories include the "Big Bad Wolf" from Little Red Riding Hood, and the Pied Piper of Hamelin who led the children away from the village with his bright clothing and merry whistle but then closed them up in a mountain away from their parents.

Modern day cautionary tales include the Child Catcher from Chitty-Chitty Bang Bang and Dolores Umbridge (with her little-girl voice and love of cats) & Gilderoy Lockhart (handsome teacher heart-throb who leaves children to die in the Chamber of Secrets) in the Harry Potter Books.

And yet it's always a shock when these happen, and people always talk about what a nice, kind, honorable person this was. Like Norman Bates in Psycho, he wouldn't hurt a fly. :furious:

MaryNo
12-03-2011, 08:32 PM
:noooo: :noooo: I did not know this!

How have cases like this been prosecuted successfully in the past???? There have to be some really amazing prosecutors in PA.

It really opens my eyes as to why the specific investigations have taken so long. It's the rare victim who doesn't behave sideways in "keeping the secret" when they haven't received coping skills in therapy. I'm sure it raises the unlearned juror's eyebrows a bit when this behavior is thrown out there in relationship to the victim's credibility.

Here's to praying they rush this legislation through, so the victims will get a fair shot in court




Bill would permit experts to testify about sex abuse victim behavior






Pennsylvania is the only state that does not allow expert witness testimony about victim behavior to be offered during sexual assault criminal trials, such as the upcoming proceedings against former Penn State football defensive coordinator Jerry Sandusky.

A bill in the state Senate Judiciary Committee would change that, and the Pennsylvania Coalition Against Rape wants to see the measure expedited into law.

House Bill 1264, sponsored by state Rep. Cherelle Parker, D-Philadelphia, and co-sponsored by Rep. Kate Harper, R-Montgomery County, would allow experts to address questions about victim behavior in sex assault cases, including why a person abused in childhood might wait for decades to report the assaults.

"If victims finally get the courage to come forward and report the abuse, they should not be further victimized by having the very normal behaviors and reactions of a sex assault victim looked upon as abnormal by a court or a jury who simply isn't educated in these things," Parker said on Friday

Read more: Bill would permit experts to testify about sex abuse victim behavior - Pittsburgh Tribune-Review http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/news/regional/s_770237.html#ixzz1fWB9mDzl

Dr.Fessel
12-03-2011, 08:36 PM
I agree. Hopefully House Bill 1264 will be passed before the trial starts.

Did anyone read anything about what gifts Sandusky and Sarge gave the boys at that dinner? I wonder what Sandusky used to try to bribe the victims to come to their house for dinner. I hope it was something tangible since that one victim did not wear a wire. Was it stated anywhere if the other victim that went to dinner agreed to wear a wire?

List of PA representatives to contact about supporting House Bill 1264:
http://www.legis.state.pa.us/cfdocs/legis/home/findyourlegislator/index.cfm?CFID=92294808&CFTOKEN=19815659
http://www.legis.state.pa.us/cfdocs/legis/home/member_information/representatives_alpha.cfm I am not sure they will be able to use that law retroactive if it is passed before the trial. Wish they would have addressed that in the article.

Pensfan
12-03-2011, 08:41 PM
Through the centuries people have instinctively known that "nice" adults in authority are often just waiting to pounce on innocent children.

Read Jane Eyre or David Copperfield for examples.

Older stories include the "Big Bad Wolf" from Little Red Riding Hood, and the Pied Piper of Hamelin who led the children away from the village with his bright clothing and merry whistle but then closed them up in a mountain away from their parents.

Modern day cautionary tales include the Child Catcher from Chitty-Chitty Bang Bang and Dolores Umbridge (with her little-girl voice and love of cats) & Gilderoy Lockhart (handsome teacher heart-throb who leaves children to die in the Chamber of Secrets) in the Harry Potter Books.

And yet it's always a shock when these happen, and people always talk about what a nice, kind, honorable person this was. Like Norman Bates in Psycho, he wouldn't hurt a fly. :furious:
Yeah, but IMO most adults assumed that the above characters were psychopaths who would use children to meet their sadist desires rather than pedophiles who want to use them for sex.

Pensfan
12-03-2011, 08:56 PM
I am not sure they will be able to use that law retroactive if it is passed before the trial. Wish they would have addressed that in the article.

When the New Law Disadvantages the Defendant

To determine whether the new law may disadvantage the defendant, one must first determine whether the legislature intended the law to further punitive goals or to deter future offenses. If the legislative intent is not punitive, the defendant must show that the law is punitive in nature.

If the law creates a new crime or broadens the definition of an existing one, the law is punitive. Furthermore, if a new law creates an enhanced penalty for an existing offense, the new law may not be retroactively applied to the defendant. If a new law creates a mandatory minimum sentence, that law may not be applied to the defendant.
http://www.brunnabend.com/Publications/CriminalLawNewsletter.aspx?NewsItemid=3

The legislation (House Bill 1264) does not enhance a penalty or create a mandatory minimum sentence. IMO, it is stretching to consider it punitive towards Sandusky, but I don't know. What do you think?

Salem
12-03-2011, 09:00 PM
Yeah, but IMO most adults assumed that the above characters were psychopaths who would use children to meet their sadist desires rather than pedophiles who want to use them for sex.

Is there a difference?

Salem

ynotdivein
12-03-2011, 09:26 PM
http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2011/12/03/sports/ncaafootball/20111202-sandusky-audio.html?ref=ncaafootball

Fifth link, subtitle "Sandusky's Extended Family"

(at 3:10 on that link)

Interviewer: And how did you meet them?

JS: OK I'd have to tell you my role at at the camp. Pretty much I had budgeted late afternoon to evening that I would spend time.... So I'd go, lotta times I went swimming with them, horsed around threw 'em, they loved getting thrown... and I would throw them... um...

Concerned Papa
12-03-2011, 09:35 PM
Interesting points, Benny. And by the way, :welcome: to WS!

I've been scratching my head over Amendola's approach to this ever since he allowed the Costas interview. The man has a plan, no doubt about that. IMO, it seems to involve:

1 - Get Jerry out there in the media to tell "his story"/counteract the claims in the GJ presentment & do image rehabilitation--look, he's just this big loveable misunderstood lug of a guy (though this may seem insane to those of us who follow these things closely, think about all the potential jurors and just regular citizens who don't, and who are only reading whatever story pops up on the top of MSM websites?); and

2 - Attempt to discredit the victims, by any means necessary.

Jer says they reached out to HIM for all his "hugging":


Wrestling, hugging — “I think a lot of the kids really reached out for that,” he said.

Concerned Papa
12-03-2011, 09:45 PM
I hope to see these two tangle in their respective narrative of events:


Mr. Sandusky, in the interview, said word of an episode with a young boy in the shower reached Mr. Raykovitz. He said he talked with Mr. Raykovitz, and identified the boy he thought Penn State was concerned about. Mr. Sandusky, though, said Mr. Raykovitz did not see fit to limit his interaction with youths, in part because he was aware of the nature of Mr. Sandusky’s mentoring relationship with the boy, and in part because he knew Mr. Sandusky had undergone repeated background checks clearing him to work with children.

Mr. Raykovitz’s lawyer, Kevin L. Hand, called Mr. Sandusky’s account inaccurate, but refused to say more.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/12/03/sports/ncaafootball/at-center-of-penn-state-scandal-sandusky-tells-his-own-story.html?pagewanted=2&_r=2

No telling what kind of truths would shake out of that tree.

Pensfan
12-03-2011, 09:47 PM
Is there a difference?

Salem
Answering your rhetorical question.....
Yes, psychopaths and pedos can have overlapping personal characteristics. Both can be conscienceless/amoral sexual offenders.

Psychopaths are versatile, aggressive criminals and rape is only one of the many violent crimes that they may commit. Pedophiles are specialized sexual offenders. Because they must "fly under the radar", they typically avoid participating in other crimes where their "great guy/gal" facade could be removed.

Violent non-psychopaths are motivated by feelings of jealousy, anger, or sexual arousal. Violent psychopaths are motivated by retribution against specific people or retribution against society. They are also motivated by money or power.

Big Bad Wold, Pied Piper, Dolores Umbridge, Gilderoy Lockhart, and The Child Catcher do not have pedo characteristics except that some worked around children and chose children as their victims. Therefore, they fall under the category of conscienceless psychopath.
http://crime.about.com/od/sex/p/pedophile.htm

Pensfan
12-03-2011, 09:54 PM
http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2011/12/03/sports/ncaafootball/20111202-sandusky-audio.html?ref=ncaafootball

Fifth link, subtitle "Sandusky's Extended Family"

(at 3:10 on that link)

Interviewer: And how did you meet them?

JS: OK I'd have to tell you my role at at the camp. Pretty much I had budgeted late afternoon to evening that I would spend time.... So I'd go, lotta times I went swimming with them, horsed around threw 'em, they loved getting thrown... and I would throw them... um...
To throw them, he likely put one hand around their chest and one between their legs/under their bum. I'd bet they didn't like being thrown and little girls weren't thrown as often as boys.

ynotdivein
12-03-2011, 10:09 PM
To throw them, he likely put one hand around their chest and one between their legs/under their bum. I'd bet they didn't like being thrown and little girls weren't thrown as often as boys.

Pens, I think you're right about how these boys were "thrown" in the pool.

And lets also remember JS talking about Dottie being concerned about having the 'Second Mile boys' in the house after a football game--JS said he went downstairs and 'there's a boy flying over the couch, and then there's the dog flying over the couch'... this from http://www.nytimes.com/2011/12/03/sports/ncaafootball/at-center-of-penn-state-scandal-sandusky-tells-his-own-story.html?pagewanted=all

No good way to phrase this--but I don't think Sandusky preyed on little girls at all.

ynotdivein
12-03-2011, 10:48 PM
http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2011/12/03/sports/ncaafootball/20111202-sandusky-audio.html?ref=ncaafootball

Sorry to relentlessly post links to this interview, but I do believe it provides a very important insight not only into the mind of JS, but also into his relationship with his lawyer JA...

Please click on link #12 titled "Bob Costas Interview" starting at 17 seconds:

JS: ... <snipped> If say no, I'm not attracted to boys, that's not the truth, because I'm attracted to young people, boys, girls [Amendola shouts from somewhere else in the room, "Even not sexually... you're attracted because you enjoy spending time with them..."] JS then amends to say, "I enjoy, that's what I was tryin' to say, I [Amendola: "Answer that"] enjoy spending time with young people, I enjoy spending time with people. My two favorite groups are the elderly and the young. The young because they don't think about what they say, and the old because they don't care.... I love being around both groups, both those groups of people, and neither one of the are going anywhere, they're not caught up like all of us in trying to make a living and trying to impress people... they are who they are, and that's why I love... those groups."

ynotdivein
12-03-2011, 11:12 PM
http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2011/12/03/sports/ncaafootball/20111202-sandusky-audio.html?ref=ncaafootball

At beginning of "Bob Costas interview" segment:

JS: Wow, I would have said things differently

[Amendola: Well you have the chance now... to say things differently... this is your open mike!]

You know I don't know how different I would have said things you know when they said... when they said, um i don't know how exactly they said it, are you attracted to boys, i was sitting there saying what in the world is this question, what is it what, um if I say no, I'm not attracted to boys that's not the truth...

Pensfan
12-03-2011, 11:19 PM
http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2011/12/03/sports/ncaafootball/20111202-sandusky-audio.html?ref=ncaafootball

Sorry to relentlessly post links to this interview, but I do believe it provides a very important insight not only into the mind of JS, but also into his relationship with his lawyer JA...

Please click on link #12 titled "Bob Costas Interview" starting at 17 seconds:

JS: ... <snipped> If say no, I'm not attracted to boys, that's not the truth, because I'm attracted to young people, boys, girls [Amendola shouts from somewhere else in the room, "Even not sexually... you're attracted because you enjoy spending time with them..."] JS then amends to say, "I enjoy, that's what I was tryin' to say, I [Amendola: "Answer that"] enjoy spending time with young people, I enjoy spending time with people. My two favorite groups are the elderly and the young. The young because they don't think about what they say, and the old because they don't care.... I love being around both groups, both those groups of people, and neither one of the are going anywhere, they're not caught up like all of us in trying to make a living and trying to impress people... they are who they are, and that's why I love... those groups."
bbm

The pedophile needs the feeling of power and elderly people are vulnerable and easy to control just like little children.

J. J. in Phila
12-03-2011, 11:26 PM
http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2011/12/03/sports/ncaafootball/20111202-sandusky-audio.html?ref=ncaafootball

Sorry to relentlessly post links to this interview, but I do believe it provides a very important insight not only into the mind of JS, but also into his relationship with his lawyer JA...

Please click on link #12 titled "Bob Costas Interview" starting at 17 seconds:

JS: ... <snipped> If say no, I'm not attracted to boys, that's not the truth, because I'm attracted to young people, boys, girls [Amendola shouts from somewhere else in the room, "Even not sexually... you're attracted because you enjoy spending time with them..."] JS then amends to say, "I enjoy, that's what I was tryin' to say, I [Amendola: "Answer that"] enjoy spending time with young people, I enjoy spending time with people. My two favorite groups are the elderly and the young. The young because they don't think about what they say, and the old because they don't care.... I love being around both groups, both those groups of people, and neither one of the are going anywhere, they're not caught up like all of us in trying to make a living and trying to impress people... they are who they are, and that's why I love... those groups."

Mr. Amendola is a bright guy and has a fairly good track record as a defense attorney, but I cannot for the life of me figure out why he is letting his client talk to the press. It is like watching a slow suicide.

Maybe they are working on an insanity defense?

Pensfan
12-03-2011, 11:37 PM
I hope to see these two tangle in their respective narrative of events:

Quote:
Mr. Sandusky, in the interview, said word of an episode with a young boy in the shower reached Mr. Raykovitz. He said he talked with Mr. Raykovitz, and identified the boy he thought Penn State was concerned about. Mr. Sandusky, though, said Mr. Raykovitz did not see fit to limit his interaction with youths, in part because he was aware of the nature of Mr. Sandusky’s mentoring relationship with the boy, and in part because he knew Mr. Sandusky had undergone repeated background checks clearing him to work with children.

Mr. Raykovitz’s lawyer, Kevin L. Hand, called Mr. Sandusky’s account inaccurate, but refused to say more.
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/12/03/sports/ncaafootball/at-center-of-penn-state-scandal-sandusky-tells-his-own-story.html?pagewanted=2&_r=2



No telling what kind of truths would shake out of that tree.
Dr. Raykovitz, child psychologist and CEO of Second mile for 28 years, is having his lawyer answer his questions. (Swell.) Does anyone know if this is Raykovitz's personal attorney or the attorney for the board of control at Second Mile? The only name I can find associated with Kevin Hand is Raykovitz.

Reader
12-03-2011, 11:40 PM
I am not sure they will be able to use that law retroactive if it is passed before the trial. Wish they would have addressed that in the article.

If I'm reading this correctly, the bill will not be retroactive:

"Section 2. The addition of 42 Pa.C.S. § 5920 shall apply to


actions initiated on or after the effective date of this


section.


Section 3. This act shall take effect in 60 days.

http://www.legis.state.pa.us/CFDOCS/Legis/PN/Public/btCheck.cfm?txtType=HTM&sessYr=2011&sessInd=0&billBody=H&billTyp=B&billNbr=1264&pn=1387

--------

It was referred to the Pa. Senate Judiciary Committee on 6/26/11

http://www.legis.state.pa.us/cfdocs/billinfo/billinfo.cfm?syear=2011&sind=0&body=H&type=B&BN=1264

BennyProfane
12-03-2011, 11:42 PM
Canadian hero Sheldon Kennedy to appear before Senate hearings on the scandal:

http://www.cbc.ca/albertaatnoon/episode/2011/11/22/sheldon-kennedy-to-help-us-deal-with-scandal-at-penn-state/

This is some background for people who haven't heard of him. Things are very different up here because of what he accomplished in the mid-90's.
http://www.thestar.com/sports/college/article/1085544--penn-state-scandal-opportunity-to-create-awareness-kennedy-says

ALSO, if you're at all curious about the mentality of victims from the athletic field, buy his book. It's still available on Amazon:
Amazon.com: Why I Didn&#39;t Say Anything (9781897178072): Sheldon Kennedy: Books@@AMEPARAM@@http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51lrPmgojhL.@@AMEPARAM@@51lrPmgojhL

Reader
12-03-2011, 11:47 PM
Mr. Amendola is a bright guy and has a fairly good track record as a defense attorney, but I cannot for the life of me figure out why he is letting his client talk to the press. It is like watching a slow suicide.

Maybe they are working on an insanity defense?

The lawyer might have this in mind, but I don't think JS would EVER agree to an insanity defense...he thinks he's just a misunderstood good guy, all those underage kids were just 'reaching out' to him, ya know?

ETA that I agree with you, it's hard to figure out what kind of defense this is when Amendola is putting JS out there revealing himself so openly. The only thing I can imagine (someone here mentioned before) is trying to influence a potential jury.

ThoughtFox
12-03-2011, 11:49 PM
Answering your rhetorical question.....

Big Bad Wold, Pied Piper, Dolores Umbridge, Gilderoy Lockhart, and The Child Catcher do not have pedo characteristics except that some worked around children and chose children as their victims. Therefore, they fall under the category of conscienceless psychopath.
http://crime.about.com/od/sex/p/pedophile.htm

Look, I'm speaking metaphorically and my point was that throughout history no one wanted to believe that adults would abuse children sexually. But they used these types of cautionary tales to show that adults were often not what they seemed and they could even fool other adults. That was my point - not that Harry Potter is a pedophile treatise (I originally had Fenrir Greyback the werewolf down on the list, but he is also a cannibal that preys on children and he's not attractive. Voldemort is the same type of psycho, but he does attack children and was more attractive in his own youth.)

Anyway, Jerry was not what he seemed, and most other pedophiles know how to lure children into things by acting as if they love children. They don't go around like snarling psychopaths. ETA: However, it's on the record that Jerry did threaten kids who wanted to stop meeting with him, and that's pretty cold and violent.

What if some of us see Pedophiles as a type of Sociopath? I don't know what other conclusion to draw, since they are inflicting control and evil on the most innocent part of society and all they ever say in their own defense is that they were "helping" children. OMG.

Reader
12-03-2011, 11:59 PM
Canadian hero Sheldon Kennedy to appear before Senate hearings on the scandal:

http://www.cbc.ca/albertaatnoon/episode/2011/11/22/sheldon-kennedy-to-help-us-deal-with-scandal-at-penn-state/

This is some background for people who haven't heard of him. Things are very different up here because of what he accomplished in the mid-90's.
http://www.thestar.com/sports/college/article/1085544--penn-state-scandal-opportunity-to-create-awareness-kennedy-says

ALSO, if you're at all curious about the mentality of victims from the athletic field, buy his book. It's still available on Amazon:
Amazon.com: Why I Didn't Say Anything (9781897178072): Sheldon Kennedy: Books (http://www.amazon.com/Why-I-Didnt-Say-Anything/dp/1897178077/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1322970094&sr=1-1)

Thanks for that information and link:

"But in the notoriety — and widespread public disgust at the alleged abuser, former assistant coach Jerry Sandusky, and university brass for not stopping it — Kennedy sees “a great opportunity” to create more awareness of the issue.

“When there’s a crisis, that creates a platform for change to happen,” said Kennedy, 42, who is co-founder of Respect Group Inc., an organization which aims to educate coaches and activity leaders about abuse, bullying, harassment and neglect. “They’ve got a great opportunity.

http://www.thestar.com/sports/college/article/1085544--penn-state-scandal-opportunity-to-create-awareness-kennedy-says

We need an organization like that, not only in Pa. but nationally, and it should be a requirement for all sports leaders and coaches.

Pensfan
12-04-2011, 12:51 AM
Look, I'm speaking metaphorically and my point was that throughout history no one wanted to believe that adults would abuse children sexually. But they used these types of cautionary tales to show that adults were often not what they seemed and they could even fool other adults. That was my point - not that Harry Potter is a pedophile treatise (I originally had Fenrir Greyback the werewolf down on the list, but he is also a cannibal that preys on children and he's not attractive. Voldemort is the same type of psycho, but he does attack children and was more attractive in his own youth.)

Anyway, Jerry was not what he seemed, and most other pedophiles know how to lure children into things by acting as if they love children. They don't go around like snarling psychopaths. ETA: However, it's on the record that Jerry did threaten kids who wanted to stop meeting with him, and that's pretty cold and violent.

What if some of us see Pedophiles as a type of Sociopath? I don't know what other conclusion to draw, since they are inflicting control and evil on the most innocent part of society and all they ever say in their own defense is that they were "helping" children. OMG.
My post was not being snarky. It listed facts that I thought were interesting. Like just about everyone, I also view many of the behaviors of pedophiles as sociopathic.

Pensfan
----------
verified psychiatric mental health nurse

LRinCA
12-04-2011, 12:55 AM
I noticed that "reached out to" has been used as a descriptive term in several different ways by JS in news interviews. Odd, and disturbing IMO. Sorry, I haven't been able to put together a list of all of the ways he has used this term. Search it in connection with him, and you will begin to see.

And taking the title of his book into consideration...

(Someone has probably already mentioned this - I should read the entire thread before commenting)


I saw a just a short snippet of the Sandusky interview this afternoon and my take is this:

There's something seriously wrong with the guy! Even without the pedophile charges there's something off about the guy. (I hope it's okay to say something like this on the board).

For some reason the movie Of Mice and Men comes to mind. I don't really recall anything about the movie (or book) other than the very end but Jerry Sandusky is reminding me of a mash-up between Lennie Small and the little girl in The Bad Seed.

Pensfan
12-04-2011, 12:59 AM
Thanks for that information and link:

"But in the notoriety — and widespread public disgust at the alleged abuser, former assistant coach Jerry Sandusky, and university brass for not stopping it — Kennedy sees “a great opportunity” to create more awareness of the issue.

“When there’s a crisis, that creates a platform for change to happen,” said Kennedy, 42, who is co-founder of Respect Group Inc., an organization which aims to educate coaches and activity leaders about abuse, bullying, harassment and neglect. “They’ve got a great opportunity.

http://www.thestar.com/sports/college/article/1085544--penn-state-scandal-opportunity-to-create-awareness-kennedy-says

We need an organization like that, not only in Pa. but nationally, and it should be a requirement for all sports leaders and coaches.
last sentence bbm
...........and all other organizations that serve children. I have wondered how many pedophiles are in the ranks of the largest organization that serves children in the USA (Big Brothers Big Sisters) and if they have a anti-pedophile program to block pedophiles from volunteering.

MaryNo
12-04-2011, 01:03 AM
http://www.pennlive.com/midstate/index.ssf/2011/12/jerry_sanduskys_willingness_to.html

Half the attorneys general in the United States were at a national meeting with former Pennsylvania Attorney General Walter Cohen.

Cohen said, “These guys come up to me and say, ‘What’s going on here?’ They’re all news junkies. ... They’re all saying, ‘What is this guy doing? He’s destroying his client.’ ”

“You could talk to 100 lawyers who’ve represented criminal defendants in high-profile cases,” Cohen said, “and I don’t think you’ll find any who’d say they’d have their client submit to the kind of interviews this lawyer is soliciting for his client.”

Sandusky recently talked to a New York Times reporter for four hours.

Amendola sat nearby in a rocking chair, checking his cell phone.

More at the link above ...

katydid23
12-04-2011, 01:06 AM
And taking the title of his book into consideration...

(Someone has probably already mentioned this - I should read the entire thread before commenting)


I saw a just a short snippet of the Sanduskey interview this afternoon and my take is this:

There's something seriously wrong with the guy! Even without the pedophile charges there's something off about the guy. (I hope it's okay to say something like this on the board).

For some reason the movie Of Mice and Men comes to mind. I don't really recall anything about the movie (or book) other than the very end but Jerry Sanduskey is reminding me of a mash-up between Lennie Small and the little girl in The Bad Seed.

I agree. He came off as so creepy, but it was like he didn't even realize how sick he sounded. And he had this really crazy big smile while he was talking about how attracted he was to kids---'not sexually though. 'His lawyer reminded him to point that out.

MaryNo
12-04-2011, 01:16 AM
Bolded by me ...

You're in my head - I can't tell you how many times over the years this thought has crossed my mind when hearing of other scandals such as this.

It's a chilling thought.
last sentence bbm
...........and all other organizations that serve children. I have wondered how many pedophiles are in the ranks of the largest organization that serves children in the USA (Big Brothers Big Sisters) and if they have a anti-pedophile program to block pedophiles from volunteering.

LRinCA
12-04-2011, 01:16 AM
katydid23 - I just now saw the part you mentioned:


Today Show - re: Sandusky uploaded 12/3/2011 (In case it hasn't been posted already)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OP-s_QCIoM0





I keep going back to the line in his book about all the games the older men taught him to play when he was a kid...

ynotdivein
12-04-2011, 01:20 AM
See, this is it exactly. If Amendola advised Sandusky to just hide until his first court appearance, that would give his accusers and the media that much time to make hay.

Think about it from Amendola's point of view--either your client makes NO media comment, in which case the other side gets an open field between now and the court date during which time they will annihilate your client in the MSM--OR, you do your best to get your client's mug out there in some kind of "normal" setting, and you try to normalize him as much as possible (even if you have to occasionally scream reminders to him from the sidelines in order to prevent him from admitting that he is, in fact, sexually attracted to young boys and whatnot).

‘Second guessing’

Cohen can’t help wondering if Amendola isn’t more sly fox than Wile E. Coyote.

“He may be out-smarting us all,” Cohen said.

Sandusky is facing a preliminary hearing on the charges against him this month.

Cohen said that since prosecutors don’t have to present extensive evidence at the proceeding, conventional wisdom says Amendola should waive the hearing “and wait to see to what extent you can punch holes in the testimony at trial.”

But he said Amendola “may be trying to force the prosecutors to come forward with actual evidence from all the victims to counter this publicity he’s putting out there. ... He may feel he’s forcing the attorney general to put on live witnesses at the preliminary hearing, who will then be questioned about events 10 or 12 years ago and may testify at the hearing differently on some details than they did to the grand jury, and he’ll have two prior inconsistent statements when they testify at trial.

“It’s the only thing I can think of that he’s trying to accomplish from a legal standpoint,” Cohen said.

And in the court of public opinion, even though Sandusky’s performance has been “bizarre,” Amendola’s strategy may be to “send up this cloud of floating question marks” and get people to wondering “If the guy really did this, how could he be talking? Any of us, we’d be lying under the covers in a fetal position,” Cohen said.

LRinCA
12-04-2011, 01:21 AM
BBM

(CNN) -- Attorneys for alleged victims of Jerry Sandusky lashed out Saturday at a new interview with the former Penn State football coach, with one calling it "another failed attempt to manipulate the public."

Howard Janet, who represents the person identified as Victim 6 in the grand jury report that led to Sandusky's indictment, said Sandusky also attempted -- unsuccessfully -- to "manipulate the future jury pool."


http://www.cnn.com/2011/12/04/us/penn-state-scandal/

Pensfan
12-04-2011, 01:24 AM
It is impossible to believe that Second Mile told Sandusky to not have contact with children after 2002 as Dr. Raykovitz’s attorney (who now speaks for that child psychologist) stated. Sandusky took an annual $57,000 consulting fee from the Second Mile, between 2000 until 2008, according to the organization’s tax forms.
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2011/11/11/sandusky-made-457g-after-pennsylvania-charity-learned-allegations-tax-records/

LRinCA
12-04-2011, 01:27 AM
What?!?!?!?

What kind of strange wording is this? (BBM)

"he didn't want me to bring kids (into university facilities) and work them out anymore," according to the interview. From the CNN article: http://www.cnn.com/2011/12/04/us/penn-state-scandal/


I'm immediately reminded of this (November 15, 2011 NY Times:

Jerry Sandusky: “many more young people who would come forward and say that my methods, and what I had done for them made a very positive impact on their life. - Sandusky

Pensfan
12-04-2011, 01:30 AM
katydid23 - I just now saw the part you mentioned:


Today Show - re: Sandusky uploaded 12/3/2011 (In case it hasn't been posted already)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OP-s_QCIoM0





I keep going back to the line in his book about all the games the older men taught him to play when he was a kid...
Don't miss what his dad chose as his profession and how they lived above an underprivileged youth center and that this job did not pay much money according to Sandusky. Understand that unemployment did not rise in W. Pennsylvania until the mid 1970s. Other jobs were available.

LRinCA
12-04-2011, 01:31 AM
Amendola sounds like he's speaking to a child:


“All those good things that you were doing have been turned around,” Mr. Amendola said, speaking to his client, “and the people who are painting you as a monster are saying, ‘Well, they’re the types of things that people who are pedophiles exhibit.’ ”

J. J. in Phila
12-04-2011, 01:32 AM
The lawyer might have this in mind, but I don't think JS would EVER agree to an insanity defense...he thinks he's just a misunderstood good guy, all those underage kids were just 'reaching out' to him, ya know?

ETA that I agree with you, it's hard to figure out what kind of defense this is when Amendola is putting JS out there revealing himself so openly. The only thing I can imagine (someone here mentioned before) is trying to influence a potential jury.

At the rate Mr. Amendola is going on influencing the jury pool, Sandusky will get live in front a firing squad!

Sandusky, if proven insane, he might not have a choice.

Here is the Pennsylvania definition:

For purposes of this section, the phrase
"legally insane" means that, at the time of the commission of
the offense, the actor was laboring under such a defect of
reason, from disease of the mind, as not to know the nature and
quality of the act he was doing or, if the actor did know the
quality of the act, that he did not know that what he was doing
was wrong.

http://law.onecle.com/pennsylvania/crimes-and-offenses/00.003.015.000.html

Concerned Papa
12-04-2011, 01:33 AM
They’re all saying, ‘What is this guy doing? He’s destroying his client.’ ”

“You could talk to 100 lawyers who’ve represented criminal defendants in high-profile cases,” Cohen said, “and I don’t think you’ll find any who’d say they’d have their client submit to the kind of interviews this lawyer is soliciting for his client.”

http://www.pennlive.com/midstate/index.ssf/2011/12/jerry_sanduskys_willingness_to.html

I think all these folks need to hush. He's doing a fine, fine job.

Wile E. Coyote......:floorlaugh::floorlaugh::floorlaugh:

LRinCA
12-04-2011, 01:36 AM
Don't miss what his dad chose as his profession and how they lived above an underprivileged youth center and that this job did not pay much money according to Sandusky. Understand that unemployment did not rise in W. Pennsylvania until the mid 1970s. Other jobs were available.


Yep, like father like son??

AND . . . one of the men in the book - the attorney who appointed Sandusky to one of his company's board member seats - was a graduate of the well known orphanage for young men - Girard College - and represented that institution's interests in trying to maintain the young white male status as set up by Stephen Girard.

The photo of Sandusky and those other two men (one was the man mentioned above) with their arms wrapped around those three boys is an image I can't get out of my mind. In fact, it was soon after seeing that that I had to take a mental break from this case.

Reader
12-04-2011, 01:49 AM
To learn some more about pedophiles, I started with good ol' wiki:

Pedophilia - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Then went to the Mayo Clinic which is quite extensive:

http://www.mayoclinicproceedings.com/content/82/4/457.full

*An estimated 1 in 20 cases of child sexual abuse is reported or identified.

*The NIBRS data indicate that an arrest was made in only 29% of reported juvenile sexual assaults. Factors most likely to lead to an arrest, listed in order of greatest likelihood of arrest, were (1) presence of more than 1 child, (2) 1 offender involved, (3) juvenile child involved, and (4) female child involved. Additional factors that significantly determined whether an arrest was made included whether the offender was known to the child, if the offense took place in a residence, and, almost paradoxically, if the child was not physically injured during the assault.

*It is difficult to present a classic personality pattern for pedophilia because of the various subgroups that exist. Some individuals who have pedophilia are able to present themselves as psychologically normal during examination or superficial encounters, even though they have severe underlying personality disorders. Studies have shown that people with pedophilia generally experience feelings of inferiority, isolation or loneliness, low self-esteem, internal dysphoria, and emotional immaturity. They have difficulty with mature age-appropriate interpersonal interactions, particularly because of their reduced assertiveness, elevated levels of passive-aggressivity, and increased anger or hostility. These traits lead to difficulty dealing with painful affect, which results in the excessive use of the major defense mechanisms of intellectualization, denial, cognitive distortion (eg, manipulation of fact), and rationalization. Even though pedophiles often have difficulty with interpersonal relationships, 50% or more will marry at some point in their lives.

*It is common for people who are diagnosed as having pedophilia to also experience another major psychiatric disorder (affective illness in 60%-80%, anxiety disorder in 50%-60%) and/or a diagnosable personality disorder (70%-80%) at some time in their life. An estimated 43% of pedophiles have cluster C personality disorders, 33% have cluster B personality disorders, and 18% have cluster A personality disorders.


Then this simpler link has some good points:

http://www.mental-health-matters.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=519

*Are usually family men, have no criminal record, and deny that they abuse children, even after caught, convicted, incarcerated, and court-ordered into a sex offender program. The marriage is often troubled by sexual dysfunction, and serves as a smokescreen for the pedophile's true preferences and practices.

*A pedophile will not stop on his own, and will not turn himself in, because he does not take responsibility for his behavior and denies that he's doing anything harmful. He will abuse until he's caught.

*A child not always recognizes when he or she is being abused, manipulated, or groomed by a pedophile. Unless the pedophile is a sexual sadist, he does not have to threaten a child into silence. The trust, gifts, secrecy, and "relationship" are enough. In some cases, the abuser will coerce the child into silence by saying that if anyone finds out, he would go to jail, or the child would, and maybe the child's parents. In other cases, threats to harm the child, pets, and family are used.


Even About.com had some good points:
http://crime.about.com/od/sex/p/pedophile.htm

*Single or with few friends in his age group.
If married, the relationship is more "companion" based with no sexual relations.

*It is not unusual for the child to develop feelings for the predator and desire their approval and continued acceptance. They will compromise their innate ability to decipher good and bad behavior, ultimately justifying the criminal's bad behavior out of sympathy and concern for the adults welfare. This is often compared to Stockholm Syndrome - when victims become attached emotionally to their captors.

*Pedophiles work hard at stalking their targets and will patiently work to develop relationships with them. It is not uncommon for them to be developing a long list of potential victims at any one time. Many of them believe that what they are doing is not wrong and that having sex with a child is actually "healthy" for the child.

* Almost all pedophiles have a collection of pornography, which they protect at all costs. Many of them also collect "souvenirs" from their victims. They rarely discard either their porn or collections for any reason.

*One factor that works against the pedophile is that eventually the children will grow up and recall the events that occurred. Often pedophiles are not brought to justice until such time occurs and victims are angered by being victimized and want to protect other children from the same consequences.

The BBM leads me to a question:

Has the Sandusky home been searched yet for any of these souvenirs that JS may have kept from his victims? Or porn?

LRinCA
12-04-2011, 01:51 AM
Amazing...

"he knew Mr. Sandusky had undergone repeated background checks clearing him to work with children."

(from the NY Times article)

Pensfan
12-04-2011, 01:59 AM
* Almost all pedophiles have a collection of pornography, which they protect at all costs. Many of them also collect "souvenirs" from their victims. They rarely discard either their porn or collections for any reason.

Has the Sandusky home been searched yet for any of these souvenirs that JS may have kept from his victims? Or porn?
Respectfully shortened


November 18, 2011
Agents with the Attorney General's Office are now looking into child pornography at the university.

“A spokesman for the Attorney General’s Office refused to comment, citing an ongoing Grand Jury investigation.”

“Earle also asked the attorney general spokesman if investigators confiscated a computer from Jerry Sandusky. The spokesman would not comment.”
http://www.wpxi.com/news/29804499/detail.html

There were 3 IPs with child porn in the city and four IPs with child porn downloads at the university.

Sadly, an IP address isn’t an “entity” and it doesn’t identify who downloaded those. 48,000 students and 40,000 employee (there will be overlap) might have access to these IP numbers.




Everyone who uses the Internet access services at Penn State has two choices: to connect by a backbone connection or to connect by a modem and phone line.
Traveling Penn State faculty and staff can use the Penn State Travel Calling Card to connect to University Park modems from anywhere within the continental United States at a low rate (see http://css.its.psu.edu/es/phone/cards/travel.html). Contact your ITS Consultant for more information (see http://css.its.psu.edu/cs/)
At University Park, ITS provides over 1,344 high speed 56Kbps (V.90) or 128Kbps (ISDN) modems.
The Web site "downloads.its.psu.edu" provides consolidated access to a variety of up-to-date software packages and updates, and is available to Penn State faculty, students, and staff. The site also integrates the Web version of PAC-ITS and provides easy access to ITS open source software mirror at http://carroll.aset.psu.edu/. For more information and to begin downloading, visit https://downloads.its.psu.edu/. The software products listed are available only to Penn State faculty, staff and students.
http://www.psu.edu/dept/itscss/internet/connections.html
• To access Penn State resources that are restricted to Penn State IP addresses. When you use a VPN, you are assigned a Penn State IP address, which allows you to connect to certain Penn State services and resources. Some Penn State services and resources, such as library services, require you to connect with a Penn State IP address. In a manner of speaking, a VPN lets you make a connection via a third-party ISP cable modem, dial-up, or DSL as if you were “on campus.”

Reader
12-04-2011, 02:12 AM
Amazing...

"he knew Mr. Sandusky had undergone repeated background checks clearing him to work with children."

(from the NY Times article)

That whole interview was nothing but an exercise in denial, denial, denial...

I think Amendola is letting his client pre-testify before the trial, then he will use the trial to attack the victims' credibility...

BigCat
12-04-2011, 03:46 AM
Could someone please tell me what's the earliest date of a sexual abuse allegation against Sandusky? (I mean the date the abuse was alleged to have happened, not when the allegation was made.) I don't recall one early than '94.

J. J. in Phila
12-04-2011, 07:01 AM
Yep, like father like son??

AND . . . one of the men in the book - the attorney who appointed Sandusky to one of his company's board member seats - was a graduate of the well known orphanage for young men - Girard College - and represented that institution's interests in trying to maintain the young white male status as set up by Stephen Girard.


Girard College was integrated in 1968. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Girard_College#History_of_Girard_College

A lot of the problems were trying to break a 130 year old will. There were similar problems with the Barnes Foundation.

concentric
12-04-2011, 02:39 PM
Canadian hero Sheldon Kennedy to appear before Senate hearings on the scandal:

http://www.cbc.ca/albertaatnoon/episode/2011/11/22/sheldon-kennedy-to-help-us-deal-with-scandal-at-penn-state/

This is some background for people who haven't heard of him. Things are very different up here because of what he accomplished in the mid-90's.
http://www.thestar.com/sports/college/article/1085544--penn-state-scandal-opportunity-to-create-awareness-kennedy-says

ALSO, if you're at all curious about the mentality of victims from the athletic field, buy his book. It's still available on Amazon:
Amazon.com: Why I Didn't Say Anything (9781897178072): Sheldon Kennedy: Books (http://www.amazon.com/Why-I-Didnt-Say-Anything/dp/1897178077/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1322970094&sr=1-1)
------------
Thank you. I found out about the book only a few weeks ago. I think I will buy it to be supportive of the men who were victims in that hockey program. I have recently read much about this case and another victim online.

Before I read about it, I had developed a theory based upon my knowledge of other cases over the years, which I call "the buffer zone"--the perpetrators set things up so that there are some children surrounding them who are never sexually abused, and only see their good side. The perp. does this to protect himself, continue his abuse, provide defense, discount the victims' accounts of what happened, and cause the victims to be ridiculed and shamed by their teammates, families, the public etc. should they report the crimes or speak out.

I am fairly certain that this is the case with JS as well.

concentric
12-04-2011, 02:52 PM
Respectfully shortened


November 18, 2011
Agents with the Attorney General's Office are now looking into child pornography at the university.

“A spokesman for the Attorney General’s Office refused to comment, citing an ongoing Grand Jury investigation.”

“Earle also asked the attorney general spokesman if investigators confiscated a computer from Jerry Sandusky. The spokesman would not comment.”
http://www.wpxi.com/news/29804499/detail.html

There were 3 IPs with child porn in the city and four IPs with child porn downloads at the university.

Sadly, an IP address isn’t an “entity” and it doesn’t identify who downloaded those. 48,000 students and 40,000 employee (there will be overlap) might have access to these IP numbers.




Everyone who uses the Internet access services at Penn State has two choices: to connect by a backbone connection or to connect by a modem and phone line.
Traveling Penn State faculty and staff can use the Penn State Travel Calling Card to connect to University Park modems from anywhere within the continental United States at a low rate (see http://css.its.psu.edu/es/phone/cards/travel.html). Contact your ITS Consultant for more information (see http://css.its.psu.edu/cs/)
At University Park, ITS provides over 1,344 high speed 56Kbps (V.90) or 128Kbps (ISDN) modems.
The Web site "downloads.its.psu.edu" provides consolidated access to a variety of up-to-date software packages and updates, and is available to Penn State faculty, students, and staff. The site also integrates the Web version of PAC-ITS and provides easy access to ITS open source software mirror at http://carroll.aset.psu.edu/. For more information and to begin downloading, visit https://downloads.its.psu.edu/. The software products listed are available only to Penn State faculty, staff and students.
http://www.psu.edu/dept/itscss/internet/connections.html
• To access Penn State resources that are restricted to Penn State IP addresses. When you use a VPN, you are assigned a Penn State IP address, which allows you to connect to certain Penn State services and resources. Some Penn State services and resources, such as library services, require you to connect with a Penn State IP address. In a manner of speaking, a VPN lets you make a connection via a third-party ISP cable modem, dial-up, or DSL as if you were “on campus.”
----------
Thanks for that. I have repeatedly asked from the beginning: What about the computer forensics? Generally perps. like to share.

As I said, lots of international child pornography busts in the last few years.

Hope investigators can connect the dots and derive some evidence of this.

concentric
12-04-2011, 03:44 PM
Hope that all of the sports-related cases of missing children, raped children are re-investigated as a result.

Just one sports example: There are cases of children who played hockey who seemingly vanished into thin air...or were raped. Hint.

Dr.Fessel
12-04-2011, 06:31 PM
Here is a story of sex abuse and the coverup of it by some very powerful groups. Lots of similar stuff.

Judith Stowell had considerable pull with the Grand Teton Council, too. A Cub Scout leader since 1979, she was on the board of directors of the Grand Teton Council by the time Brad Stowell was a teenager.

Efforts to reach Judith Stowell at her Pocatello phone number for comment were unsuccessful.

In summer 1988, she allowed her son to take a job teaching first aid at Camp Little Lemhi. Grand Teton Council troops from Idaho, Wyoming and Montana brought about 300 boys per week to learn outdoor skills.

Brad Stowell molested his first Scout camp victim that summer.

He has testified that he continued to prey on boys right up until he was arrested nine years later. He admitted under sworn court testimony to molesting 24 boys.

Toward the end of his camp career, Brad Stowell has said in court-ordered apologies to his victims, he felt invincible. Although admonished not to, he showered attention on a few boys, giving them gifts and back rubs. The back rubs progressed to massages that ended with him fondling boys' private parts while Stowell pleasured himself. Wrestling and piggyback rides were chances for more groping. In the dark, he snuck into tents and forced sex acts on sleeping boys. On weekends, he flouted the rule against leaders being alone with boys by giving them rides home, which also led to molestations off camp premises.

When Brad Stowell was arrested in 1997, Judith Stowell was on the Grand Teton Council executive committee. Today, she is listed as a Hall of Fame honoree on the Grand Teton Council's Web site.

http://www.postregister.com/scouts_honor/part2.php

Dr.Fessel
12-04-2011, 07:13 PM
In the interview this week, Sandusky talked for the first time about his dealings with Curley in 2002. Sandusky described Curley as “concerned” about what he had been told. He said Curley told him that someone had told him about “inappropriate behavior in the shower.” Sandusky said he provided Curley with the name of the child he thought was in question, but that Curley never acted on that information.

Sandusky said Curley did inform him that he could no longer bring children to the university’s locker room facilities. But Sandusky said the idea that Curley had taken away his keys to the locker room — the graduate assistant testified that Curley told him he had done so to punish Sandusky — was not true.

“I still have my keys,” Sandusky said. “And I still went in there and worked out.”

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/12/03/sports/ncaafootball/sandusky-offers-his-view-on-pennsylvania-attorney-generals-investigation-of-him.html?_r=2

Pensfan
12-04-2011, 07:37 PM
In the interview this week, Sandusky talked for the first time about his dealings with Curley in 2002. Sandusky described Curley as “concerned” about what he had been told. He said Curley told him that someone had told him about “inappropriate behavior in the shower.” Sandusky said he provided Curley with the name of the child he thought was in question, but that Curley never acted on that information.

Sandusky said Curley did inform him that he could no longer bring children to the university’s locker room facilities. But Sandusky said the idea that Curley had taken away his keys to the locker room — the graduate assistant testified that Curley told him he had done so to punish Sandusky — was not true.

“I still have my keys,” Sandusky said. “And I still went in there and worked out.”

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/12/03/sports/ncaafootball/sandusky-offers-his-view-on-pennsylvania-attorney-generals-investigation-of-him.html?_r=2
Sandusky may possess some old key, but Penn State has used an electronic card access lock system and not keys for many years. The system utilizes the Penn State ID+ card which authorizes users to unlock doors. (Yes, Curley or someone should have taken his keys after the first report of molestation/rape.)
http://live.psu.edu/story/50455

Dr.Fessel
12-04-2011, 07:57 PM
Sounds like a very smart man.

BY ROBERT L. HORST

The recent revelations at Penn State have had serious repercussions leading to the removal of the president and head football coach and charges against two key administrators. The under-the-radar culture that many talk about as a problem at the university has its genesis at the trustee level.

I served on the Penn State board of trustees from 1992 to 1995, having been elected by the alumni. The real power on the university board lies with the “moneyed” trustees. This will not surprise anyone.

It took me the better part of a year as a new trustee to begin to figure out the power structure. I was named to the executive committee and wondered how I could be on that committee when other trustees had served much longer and some were multimillion dollar benefactors. ...............................................






Then board chairman Junker (an industrial trustee) appointed a committee to study and recommend changes to the process for electing industrial trustees. The outcome of the 1997 study was a name change to “business and industry” trustees, and the election was eliminated. Industrial trustees are now appointed. Not surprisingly, some are the largest financial contributors reported by the university. These trustees birthed and facilitated the Spanier regime.

A fresh start would include eliminating the appointed six-member business and industry group and replacing them with six additional alumni trustees, openly and democratically elected. Their removal would be a giant step toward restoring openness and sunshine, replacing the silence and haze that have been so pervasive.

ROBERT L. HORST is a 1958 Penn State graduate and former university trustee (1992-95). He is a retired engineer from Armstrong World Industries and founder of the technical consultancy, Peak Productivity USA.

http://www.pennlive.com/editorials/index.ssf/2011/12/former_penn_state_trustee_chan.html

Reader
12-04-2011, 08:01 PM
The Associated Press
Sunday, December 4, 2011 12:08 AM EST

http://www.centurylink.net/news/read.php?rip_id=%3CD9RDA89O2%40news.ap.org%3E&ps=1013&page=1

Three attorneys representing one of the alleged victims released a statement Saturday, with attorney Andrew Shubin calling Sandusky's comments "an entirely unconvincing denial and a series of bizarre explanations."
------

But Saturday's statement from one accuser's attorneys called such comments a "delusional rationalization."

"Pedophiles often horribly mischaracterize the abuse they perpetrate as something that their victims sought or benefited from," said Justine Andronici, who represents the same accuser as Shubin.

A third attorney, David Marshall, added that Sandusky's interview "goes a long way toward corroborating the victims' accounts" because Sandusky acknowledges "he `wrestled' and showered alone with boys, gave them gifts and money, and travelled with them."

Talk about shooting yourself in the foot! Anybody who is smart enough to get thru the jury selection process and is not a pedophile themselves, will know that his actions with these children was not normal as he and his lawyer are trying to say.

Reader
12-04-2011, 08:10 PM
It is impossible to believe that Second Mile told Sandusky to not have contact with children after 2002 as Dr. Raykovitz’s attorney (who now speaks for that child psychologist) stated. Sandusky took an annual $57,000 consulting fee from the Second Mile, between 2000 until 2008, according to the organization’s tax forms.
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2011/11/11/sandusky-made-457g-after-pennsylvania-charity-learned-allegations-tax-records/

According to his NYT interview JS's restriction to Second Mile children was not in 2002:

"Sandusky is accused of mining the ranks of Second Mile to find underprivileged boys to abuse, which he says is false. He said that the charity never restricted his access to children until he became the subject of a criminal investigation in 2008."

http://www.centurylink.net/news/read.php?rip_id=%3CD9RDA89O2%40news.ap.org%3E&ps=1013&page=3

Reader
12-04-2011, 08:27 PM
http://www.centurylink.net/news/read.php?rip_id=%3CD9RDA89O2%40news.ap.org%3E&ps=1013&page=1


"During a lengthy interview with The Times at his lawyer's home, Sandusky painted a picture of chaotic but friendly scenes involving children he described as extended family at his State College, Pa., home. There were sleepovers, wrestling matches, and children playing with dogs at the house after football games."

To me, that tells you something: why do you need to set up an 'extended family' of boys from the outside, when you already have a family of 5 boys and 1 girl (some of whom would have still been in the home in the early
90's). Did he ever spend any time with them after work or on the weekends, even if they had moved out? He had stated that he planned his activities with the Second Mile children for the afternoons and weekends. What about time spent with his wife, who is the unknown element in this situation...was she just the house manager? How did she feel about having all these extra children around? Was she aware of his going down to the basement to visit with a child at night? Seems after so long you would as a wife have questions....

Concerned Papa
12-04-2011, 08:57 PM
A third attorney, David Marshall, added that Sandusky's interview "goes a long way toward corroborating the victims' accounts" because Sandusky acknowledges "he `wrestled' and showered alone with boys, gave them gifts and money, and travelled with them."

http://www.centurylink.net/news/read.php?rip_id=%3CD9RDA89O2%40news.ap.org%3E&ps=1013&page=3

Yep, his own attorney has even said:


Amendola said Sandusky once spent a night alone in a hotel room with the boy during a trip sponsored by Second Mile.

“He would hug kids, he kissed kids”

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/11/23/sports/ncaafootball/for-victim-1-in-penn-states-sandusky-scandal-a-search-for-trust.html?_r=2&pagewanted=all


“They’re the types of things that people who are pedophiles exhibit.”

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/12/03/sports/ncaafootball/at-center-of-penn-state-scandal-sandusky-tells-his-own-story.html?_r=3&pagewanted=1

If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck.................

Pensfan
12-04-2011, 09:13 PM
According to his NYT interview JS's restriction to Second Mile children was not in 2002:

"Sandusky is accused of mining the ranks of Second Mile to find underprivileged boys to abuse, which he says is false. He said that the charity never restricted his access to children until he became the subject of a criminal investigation in 2008."

http://www.centurylink.net/news/read.php?rip_id=%3CD9RDA89O2%40news.ap.org%3E&ps=1013&page=3
Sorry, I should have posted the article for which I was referring. In that NYT article posted yesterday, Dr. Raykovitz's attorney disputed Sandusky's statement that he (Sandusky) was not prohibited from "mining' children at Second Mile until 2008. Neither Dr. Raykovitz or his attorney have given any other statements about who at Second Mile told Sandusky to stay away from little boys and when this discussion occurred. Yesterday's statement by Raykovitz's attorney was the first one I've read that disputes Sandusky claim that no one from Second Mile told him to stay away from little boys (at Second Mile until 2008).

Pensfan
12-04-2011, 09:21 PM
The Associated Press
Sunday, December 4, 2011 12:08 AM EST

http://www.centurylink.net/news/read.php?rip_id=%3CD9RDA89O2%40news.ap.org%3E&ps=1013&page=1

Three attorneys representing one of the alleged victims released a statement Saturday, with attorney Andrew Shubin calling Sandusky's comments "an entirely unconvincing denial and a series of bizarre explanations."
------

But Saturday's statement from one accuser's attorneys called such comments a "delusional rationalization."

"Pedophiles often horribly mischaracterize the abuse they perpetrate as something that their victims sought or benefited from," said Justine Andronici, who represents the same accuser as Shubin.

A third attorney, David Marshall, added that Sandusky's interview "goes a long way toward corroborating the victims' accounts" because Sandusky acknowledges "he `wrestled' and showered alone with boys, gave them gifts and money, and travelled with them."

Talk about shooting yourself in the foot! Anybody who is smart enough to get thru the jury selection process and is not a pedophile themselves, will know that his actions with these children was not normal as he and his lawyer are trying to say.
Read this pedo’s comments about sexually assaulting a very young child (under age 4): Gaub claimed that the little girl knew what she was doing and what was going on, suggesting that if the little girl had not been so promiscuous he would not have abused her. Gaub wrote in a statement that "I only touched the girl in a wrong way and did not physically, hurt, abuse or harm her at all."
http://missoulian.com/news/local/missoula-day-care-owner-loses-bid-for-reclassification-as-low/article_4ddc603a-05a8-11e1-ab77-001cc4c002e0.html#ixzz1fcJfJdO9

Sandusky has repeatedly stated that boys also "wanted” him. Boys wanted him to hug them, throw them (likely by putting one hand between their legs and another around their chest), wrestle with him, give them back rubs in bed, and etc... Sandusky stated, “In my mind, there wasn't inappropriate behavior." He characterized his experiences with children as close and "precious times.”

Reader
12-04-2011, 10:01 PM
Could someone please tell me what's the earliest date of a sexual abuse allegation against Sandusky? (I mean the date the abuse was alleged to have happened, not when the allegation was made.) I don't recall one early than '94.

I think around '94 is correct per this timeline for the GJ investigation:

http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2011/11/11/sports/ncaafootball/sandusky.html?ref=ncaafootball

Of course, who knows what happened in the years before that?

HTH

Reader
12-04-2011, 10:06 PM
Read this pedo’s comments about sexually assaulting a very young child (under age 4): Gaub claimed that the little girl knew what she was doing and what was going on, suggesting that if the little girl had not been so promiscuous he would not have abused her. Gaub wrote in a statement that "I only touched the girl in a wrong way and did not physically, hurt, abuse or harm her at all."
http://missoulian.com/news/local/missoula-day-care-owner-loses-bid-for-reclassification-as-low/article_4ddc603a-05a8-11e1-ab77-001cc4c002e0.html#ixzz1fcJfJdO9

Sandusky has repeatedly stated that boys also "wanted” him. Boys wanted him to hug them, throw them (likely by putting one hand between their legs and another around their chest), wrestle with him, give them back rubs in bed, and etc... Sandusky stated, “In my mind, there wasn't inappropriate behavior." He characterized his experiences with children as close and "precious times.”

Classic pedophile rationalizations...blame the children because they 'wanted' him to do those things so therefore it wasn't 'inappropriate'.

Reader
12-04-2011, 10:27 PM
The interviews Sandusky is doing now are starting to make a little sense to me now that I have learned the State of Pennsylvania does not allow experts to "to address questions about victim behavior in sex assault cases, including why a person abused in childhood might wait for decades to report the assaults."

The more they can get out now about the victims not coming out sooner, the weirdness of the victims going to dinners and stuff is a plus since the state will not be able to explain that behavior during trial.

Quote came from:
Pittsburgh Tribune-Review http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/news/specialreports/pennstate/s_770237.html#ixzz1fWH0l5D4

After reading some of the victims attorney's reponses today to the NYT interview by Sandusky, I've started thinking maybe they can overcome this in the trial, even tho having the experts would be great.

These attorneys seem pretty knowledgeable about the behaviors exibited by JS and what they mean and why the children did not report abuse at the time. Hopefully they will be allowed to bring this out during the children's testimony, especially from the one who was threatened by JS. We don't know all the details of what the victims have told their attorneys and it may be that others were threatened, directly or subtlely. They can also tell about their fears of their peers knowing what happened, how they were groomed by JS with gifts, trips, etc. How they did not have both parents in the home and at first looked up to JS as a father figure; he was a college football coach and to them a powerful figure, how they didn't think anyone would believe them vs JS. How when they found out the abuse of others was still going on, they wanted to try to stop it.

BigCat
12-04-2011, 10:46 PM
I think around '94 is correct per this timeline for the GJ investigation:

http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2011/11/11/sports/ncaafootball/sandusky.html?ref=ncaafootball

Of course, who knows what happened in the years before that?

HTH

I believe in the civil suit filed last week the complainant, who was not one of the victims involved in the GJ investigation, also claims Sandusky began to sexually abuse him in '94. I just needed someone else to verify it as the earilest date that we are aware of. Thanks.

BigCat
12-04-2011, 11:42 PM
I came across this lengthy piece in an obscure weekly paper. It has some interesting details I haven't seen elsewhere.


As a quarterback, Smith remembers having Mike McQueary as his coach at the camp. “He ran the show for the quarterbacks and wide receivers,” said Smith. “I watched him throw so hard he broke a kid's nose.” (McQueary's presence at the Behrend football camp in 2004 meant that the assistant coach worked with Sandusky two years after the 2002 incident, in which allegedly he witnessed his employer raping a boy.)

http://www.eriereader.com/scene/feature/sad-days-happy-valley-penn-state-scandal-hits-home

ThoughtFox
12-05-2011, 12:07 AM
http://www.centurylink.net/news/read.php?rip_id=%3CD9RDA89O2%40news.ap.org%3E&ps=1013&page=1


"During a lengthy interview with The Times at his lawyer's home, Sandusky painted a picture of chaotic but friendly scenes involving children he described as extended family at his State College, Pa., home. There were sleepovers, wrestling matches, and children playing with dogs at the house after football games."

To me, that tells you something: why do you need to set up an 'extended family' of boys from the outside, when you already have a family of 5 boys and 1 girl (some of whom would have still been in the home in the early
90's). Did he ever spend any time with them after work or on the weekends, even if they had moved out? He had stated that he planned his activities with the Second Mile children for the afternoons and weekends. What about time spent with his wife, who is the unknown element in this situation...was she just the house manager? How did she feel about having all these extra children around? Was she aware of his going down to the basement to visit with a child at night? Seems after so long you would as a wife have questions....

One word comes to mind: Enabler.

They must have had the perfect marriage for Sandusky. They had no children of their own (small wonder) and then she was willing to adopt all those boys, plus have these sleepovers without any suspicians apparently.

Lots of unanswered questions and while she would be a hostile witness, I would love to hear some testimony from her.

Reader
12-05-2011, 12:36 AM
I came across this lengthy piece in an obscure weekly paper. It has some interesting details I haven't seen elsewhere.

Thanks for the link...very interesting with all the history about the college and Paterno, and info on the football camp that JS was still able to run outside of the main campus until 2008.

It also brings out how this football program was a closed society, very self-protective.

McQueary's role in all this and his continued contacts with JS after the investigation in 2002 are puzzling...

Concerned Papa
12-05-2011, 04:14 AM
I don't understand why this freak is still walking around on this chump change bond that didn't cost him a dime.

At what point are the powers that be going to recognize the possibility that he may see the reality of the rest of his life in a prison existence and simply vanish?

At what point will the powers that be recognize that every day he is out on the streets is another day of danger to the children he preys on?