PDA

View Full Version : TN - Holly Bobo, 20, Darden, believed abducted 13 April 2011 - #31


Pages : [1] 2 3 4 5

bessie
11-30-2011, 02:29 PM
Please continue here.

Holly Lynn Bobo was last seen early on the morning of April 13, 2011, outside of her home in Darden, Tennessee. She was seen being led away from the carport of her home toward a wooded area by a man described as approximately 5'8" to 6'0" tall and 200 pounds, wearing camouflage clothing.
Holly Lynn Bobo was last seen wearing a pink shirt and light blue jeans.
http://www.fbi.gov/wanted/kidnap (http://www.fbi.gov/wanted/kidnap)

http://www.fbi.gov/wanted/kidnap/holly-bobo/image_thumb http://www.fbi.gov/wanted/kidnap/holly-bobo/bobo_h3.jpg/image_thumb

Thread #1 (http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=133271)
Thread #2 (http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=133444)


Thread #3 (http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=133530)
Thread #4 (http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=6348742#post6348742)


Thread #5 (http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=6350683)
Thread #6 (http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=6353943&posted=1#post6353943)

Thread #7 (http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=133768)
Thread #8 (http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=133833)


Thread #9 (http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=6364838#post6364838)
Thread #10 (http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=133993)


Thread #11 (http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=134074)
Thread #12 (http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=6377579#post6377579)


Thread #13 (http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=6381250#post6381250)
Thread #14 (http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=134281)


Thread #15 (http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=6387922#post6387922)
Thread #16 (http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=6391824#post6391824)


Thread #17 (http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=6398487#post6398487)
Thread #18 (http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=6404278#post6404278)


Thread #19 (http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=134723)
Thread #20 (http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=6416798#post6416798)


Thread #21 (http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=135053)
Thread #22 (http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=6440388#post6440388)


Thread #23 (http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=6455858#post6455858)
Thread #24 (http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=136778)


Thread #25 (http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=140918)

Thread #26 (http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=146345)

Thread #27 (http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=146749)
Thread #28 (http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=148195&page=16)

Thread #29 (http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=149561&page=24)
Thread #30 (http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=151480)

-RUMORS are not allowed and will be removed.

-It's fine to discuss the brother and anyone mentioned in the media and tied to this case. Its not ok to talk about him or anyone as a suspect or POI. No one has been named as such.

-If you are new to us here, please take a moment to review our Terms of Service and Rules, especially the piece regarding social networking sites (Facebook and Twitter):
Rules Etiquette & Information (http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=65798)



Professional Posters & Verified Locals/Insiders (http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=106653)


Holly Bobo Map (http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?msa=0&msid=218199748434644937742.0004a0e4115bf271e54ae&hl=en&ie=UTF8&ll=35.679217,-88.175486&spn=0.007617,0.013057&t=h&z=17)
Created by Hollye Thanks!

Some blog sites are not allowed to be linked to because of so many rumors being posted on them. Please pm a Mod if its not posted below to see if they are allowed.

The following blog sites are allowed to be linked to:
Case Signal (BeanE's site)
Val - The Hinky Meter
Amandareckonwth's case archive site - Crankycrankerson
Patty G's Video Library site

Please continue here!

Wonless
11-30-2011, 03:04 PM
I still can't help thinking that the strangest and least talked about piece of this whole puzzle is the Whitney Duncan connection. I have posted about this before, but to recap, Whitney Duncan posts a 2 part video on youtube some time before Holly's abduction called Right Road Now, and its all about how great Whitney Duncan is, and it includes family interviews and a tour of scott's hill elementary school. Whitney tells all about how her Mom and Her Aunt(Karen Bono) are teachers at the school. Now Whitney, like her or not is just the sort of Women I would picture having obcessed fans/stalkers. Almost exactly one month before Holly was abducted, I think either March 12th or March 17th Whitney tweets a picture of her holding her new handgun she had just bought. Why would you do that unless you want everyone to know you are armed. My conclusion to that is that Whitney felt threated. It a to much of a coincidence for me to ignore.

So IMO this video opens easy access to her family, leads directly to the Bobo's and Holly. We see this kind of thing all the time in Hollywood, take for example Audrina Patridge, or Paris Hilton, or a whole list of others that have had there houses burgaled and been threatened. There is just a certian element of society that is attracted by this kind of thing..and its easy to imagine that they would watch Whitney's video, google scott's hill elementary, go there, follow some of the teachers home hoping to be lead right to Whitney Duncan's house, but instead end up at Holly Bobo's house. I can't help but think that this could happen so easily. I won't trust the whole world knowing where my Mom worked if I was even a semi-famous good looking women.
Again, no proof, just strikes me funny.

wishuwerehere
11-30-2011, 05:48 PM
To expand on the theory that some of Holly’s items were placed by the perp so they could be found: I believe the perp would have done this in order to create a façade of an event which did not actually happen. I believe it is very possible Holly was fatally harmed on her own property. If that is the case, then the perp wanted to make the crime look like an abduction by placing Holly‘s items at various locations so as to create a false exit path. In all likelihood, Holly could be very close to home.

Yes, I know, the theory above is throwing out the eyewitness testimony.
How can I reconcile that?
1) He’s lying.
2) He’s mistaken.

I know many of you don’t believe that this theory is a likely possibility. I’m not saying the above theory is what happened. I am only bringing to light another possibility, that’s it.

The above theory is based on some facts:
1) Some of Holly’s items were found at various locations (fact).
2) The eyewitness was initially mistaken about the identity of camo man (fact).
3) Holly’s blood was found on the premises (fact). This does indicate an injury (was it fatal?).

jmo

Carla Lashelle
11-30-2011, 06:04 PM
I still can't help thinking that the strangest and least talked about piece of this whole puzzle is the Whitney Duncan connection. I have posted about this before, but to recap, Whitney Duncan posts a 2 part video on youtube some time before Holly's abduction called Right Road Now, and its all about how great Whitney Duncan is, and it includes family interviews and a tour of scott's hill elementary school. Whitney tells all about how her Mom and Her Aunt(Karen Bono) are teachers at the school. Now Whitney, like her or not is just the sort of Women I would picture having obcessed fans/stalkers. Almost exactly one month before Holly was abducted, I think either March 12th or March 17th Whitney tweets a picture of her holding her new handgun she had just bought. Why would you do that unless you want everyone to know you are armed. My conclusion to that is that Whitney felt threated. It a to much of a coincidence for me to ignore.

So IMO this video opens easy access to her family, leads directly to the Bobo's and Holly. We see this kind of thing all the time in Hollywood, take for example Audrina Patridge, or Paris Hilton, or a whole list of others that have had there houses burgaled and been threatened. There is just a certian element of society that is attracted by this kind of thing..and its easy to imagine that they would watch Whitney's video, google scott's hill elementary, go there, follow some of the teachers home hoping to be lead right to Whitney Duncan's house, but instead end up at Holly Bobo's house. I can't help but think that this could happen so easily. I won't trust the whole world knowing where my Mom worked if I was even a semi-famous good looking women.
Again, no proof, just strikes me funny.

I guess people take things differently or have different interpretations. I see ZERO connection between Whitney Duncan and Holly's disappearance.

I had never even heard of WD before all this and even with her being on Survivor I rarely if ever hear/heard her name mentioned. Whether you like Paris Hilton or not, WD is certainly not in the same league as she is as far as name recognition and recognizability.

Most obsessed types know all about the focus of their attention. They would know where Whitney lived. These people dont usually appear out of the blue and usually are known to the person that they are stalking. Intially they may not seem dangerous or threatening. They also probably don't just switch their focus from person to person, ie. they are madly fixated on Whitney and then skip over to her cousin which NO ONE outside of their area would have ever heard of.

The fact that WD posted a picture of herself with guns is to me meaningless... this is THE SOUTH and EVERYONE, male and female HAS GUNS. They are a status symbol too. You got your truck, your rims, your guns... I think I have seen photos of Holly, Clint, and Drew all with some sort of gun or weapon (hunting related).

I think one of the reasons to you dont hear much about and from WD is she is not involved other than being somewhat distantly related to Holly. She can't say anthing... its not like she lived in Holly's house. She wasn't a witness to anything. She seemingly has no first hand knowledge of anything.

My stalker came into contact with me at work and followed my sister and I home when he found out where we lived from one of the taxis we regularly took late at nite. Nothing real complicated there looking back at it.

TxLady2
11-30-2011, 06:13 PM
Distantly related??? Aren't they first cousins?? Their moms are sisters, unless I'm mistaken. First cousins are pretty close kin where I come from.

Carla Lashelle
11-30-2011, 06:21 PM
Distantly related??? Aren't they first cousins?? Their moms are sisters, unless I'm mistaken. First cousins are pretty close kin where I come from.

I suppose but what I mean is they didn't grow up together like brother and sister, don't live in the same town, had different parents. I did say SOMEWHAT.... Even if they were sisters I do not think there is any relationship between WD and HB's disappearance.

Wonless
12-01-2011, 12:13 AM
I guess people take things differently or have different interpretations. I see ZERO connection between Whitney Duncan and Holly's disappearance.

I had never even heard of WD before all this and even with her being on Survivor I rarely if ever hear/heard her name mentioned. Whether you like Paris Hilton or not, WD is certainly not in the same league as she is as far as name recognition and recognizability.

Most obsessed types know all about the focus of their attention. They would know where Whitney lived. These people dont usually appear out of the blue and usually are known to the person that they are stalking. Intially they may not seem dangerous or threatening. They also probably don't just switch their focus from person to person, ie. they are madly fixated on Whitney and then skip over to her cousin which NO ONE outside of their area would have ever heard of.

The fact that WD posted a picture of herself with guns is to me meaningless... this is THE SOUTH and EVERYONE, male and female HAS GUNS. They are a status symbol too. You got your truck, your rims, your guns... I think I have seen photos of Holly, Clint, and Drew all with some sort of gun or weapon (hunting related).

I think one of the reasons to you dont hear much about and from WD is she is not involved other than being somewhat distantly related to Holly. She can't say anthing... its not like she lived in Holly's house. She wasn't a witness to anything. She seemingly has no first hand knowledge of anything.

My stalker came into contact with me at work and followed my sister and I home when he found out where we lived from one of the taxis we regularly took late at nite. Nothing real complicated there looking back at it.

IMO you can put WD in any social catagory you want but the fact is that here is her video:
Whitney Duncan - Skinny Dippin' (Video) - YouTube

Can you honestly tell me that there is zero chance of this Lady attracting the attention of a stalker? I disagree, and it really bothers me that she made it so easy to find her family..Coincidence?

Here is the video:
Right Road Now: Home Sweet Home [Part 2] (Music Video) - YouTube

nursebeeme
12-01-2011, 10:14 AM
Distantly related??? Aren't they first cousins?? Their moms are sisters, unless I'm mistaken. First cousins are pretty close kin where I come from.

yes they are family... which means we must be respectful as the family are victims and are not to be sleuthed or bashed. This lands at random

Kimster
12-01-2011, 10:36 AM
yes they are family... which means we must be respectful as the family are victims and are not to be sleuthed or bashed. This lands at random

This happens when cases start to grow cold. It doesn't mean it is allowed, however.

Next time someone wants to bash or accuse those not named in the MSM or by Law Enforcement, there will be consequences.

:tyou:

Wonless
12-01-2011, 11:13 AM
I was only trying to discuss facts surrounding actual events that happened in the community in which the abduction took place. I wasn't trying to bash anyone. I apoligize.

Oriah
12-01-2011, 12:05 PM
Bumping:
http://www.fbi.gov/wanted/kidnap/holly-bobo/view (http://www.fbi.gov/wanted/kidnap/holly-bobo/view)

I hope all hunters and outdoor enthusiasts will take note of their surroundings this season, as we head into colder weather. Maybe it would be a good idea to start another poster campaign surrounding the Parsons/Darden area in places where outdoor and hunting supplies are sold? Can't hurt to remind people to be alert for changes in ground surfaces, bodies of water, interest hunting dogs and wild animals may take in certain areas, etc.

Oriah
12-01-2011, 12:11 PM
I was only trying to discuss facts surrounding actual events that happened in the community in which the abduction took place. I wasn't trying to bash anyone. I apoligize.

I think the thing is, is that Whitney Duncan's personal and professional life choices have no place when investigating Holly's abduction.

This is an extended family that is very close to one another- as many families are- and there is no reason to pass any kind of judgement on any of them, except to extend our sympathy to them for the loss of Holly under extremely traumatic circumstances. And to do our best to try and sleuth victim-friendly leads, that might help bring Holly home to her family.

Holly is out there somewhere. Let's redirect, and see if we can't think out of the box as to where she might be.

OldSteve
12-01-2011, 01:33 PM
Been thinking about the different approach families take in these tragic cases - some are very outspoken and in the media, some are very quite and remain out the spotlight. I'm curious if in the recent cases of this year; has this made any difference?

cluciano63
12-01-2011, 01:39 PM
I think the thing is, is that Whitney Duncan's personal and professional life choices have no place when investigating Holly's abduction.

This is an extended family that is very close to one another- as many families are- and there is no reason to pass any kind of judgement on any of them, except to extend our sympathy to them for the loss of Holly under extremely traumatic circumstances. And to do our best to try and sleuth victim-friendly leads, that might help bring Holly home to her family.

Holly is out there somewhere. Let's redirect, and see if we can't think out of the box as to where she might be.

I took the poster's point as being that perhaps WD was the intended victim, not a suspect or POI. Most families of missing persons do not include a celebrity who have videos on the internet and since this case seems to point away from the more-usual type of perp, i.e. boyfriend or husband, we have no idea what could be important. JMO

Wonless
12-01-2011, 02:05 PM
I took the poster's point as being that perhaps WD was the intended victim, not a suspect or POI. Most families of missing persons do not include a celebrity who have videos on the internet and since this case seems to point away from the more-usual type of perp, i.e. boyfriend or husband, we have no idea what could be important. JMO

That is exactly my point, I can't understand why nobody wants to talk about this..I mean litterally, celebrity stalking happenes all the time. I think it could be a legitimate motive to this crime. I shouldn't have ventured an opinion about anyones personal or professional choices, I get that, it won't happen again..but I think the evidence points to this as something within the realm of possiblity. This is a part of the country where people don't even lock there doors at night, and all of a sudden, bang, Holly Bobo is gone and the headline for months is "Country Singer Whitney Duncan's cousin abducted". What changed, the 20th annual coon hunt? Everyone says think out of the box:banghead:

Oriah
12-01-2011, 02:12 PM
I took the poster's point as being that perhaps WD was the intended victim, not a suspect or POI. Most families of missing persons do not include a celebrity who have videos on the internet and since this case seems to point away from the more-usual type of perp, i.e. boyfriend or husband, we have no idea what could be important. JMO

Yes, I understand that. And this is not directed at you, cluciano- just jumping off.

I meant that I don't think mods want us passing moral judgement on the way family and friends of victims live their lives- they are victims as well by nature of the loss of their cousin, their friend, their sister, their daughter, their aunts and uncles, etc. We have no reason to criticize WD for how she has handled this terrible crime.

I can certainly see how someone being in the 'limelight' so to speak may invite interest into an individual or a family, friends, connections etc. But all sorts of people from all walks of life put videos up on youTube all the time. To judge Whitney for this, or for the media appearances she (or any other victim(s) in this circumstance) seems very judgemental to me- and not very productive in finding out what has happened to Holly and where she is.

Maybe if we want to sleuth that avenue, we could look at public venues that Holly may have attended with Whitney, places where she may have encountered a stalker- or anything like that.

But Whitney, the Bobo family and extended family, and the local community doesn't need to be judged for their personality, or life and/or career choices. Imvhoo, of course.

OldSteve
12-01-2011, 02:14 PM
snipped respectfully:


Holly is out there somewhere. Let's redirect, and see if we can't think out of the box as to where she might be.

I keep coming back to just how little we really have been told in this case. We have a very small timeline of events of that fateful morning. But, we have not been told anything about the days, weeks, months leading up to it. What took place in her life, places she visited, friends she met with, interaction with others. These are all the things LE must have done the gumshoe work of figuring out by now...
I wonder how "political" the decisions being made are at this point - political in the sense that there must be some who feel letting more info out to the public might help solve this case, while whomever is in charge wants to keep everything secret...

cluciano63
12-01-2011, 02:15 PM
Yes, I understand that.

I meant that I don't think mods want us passing moral judgement on the way family and friends of victims live their lives- they are victims as well by nature of the loss of their cousin, their friend, their sister, their daughter, their aunts and uncles, etc. We have no reason to criticize WD for how she has handles this terrible crime.

I can certainly see how someone being in the 'limelight' so to speak may invite interest into an individual or a family, friends, connections etc. But all sorts of people from all walks of life put videos up on youTube all the time. To judge Whitney for this, or for the media appearances she (or any other victim(s) in this circumstance) seems very judgemental to me- and not very productive in finding out what has happened to Holly and where she is.

Maybe if we want to sleuth that avenue, we could look at public venues that Holly may have attended with Whitney, places where she may have encountered a stalker- or anything like that.
But Whitney, the Bobo family and extended family, and the local community doesn't need to be judged for their personality, or life and/or career choices. Imvhoo, of course.

It would be helpful to know what Holly did even the day before she vanished...which we don't, and as far as I know, have no way of learning.

Also, WD was not just a person posting a video, she was, locally at least, a celebrity with name recognition, apparently and resmebles Holly in many ways, JMO.

Oriah
12-01-2011, 02:20 PM
It would be helpful to know what Holly did even the day before she vanished...which we don't, and as far as I know, have no way of learning.

Also, WD was not just a person posting a video, she was, locally at least, a celebrity with name recognition, apparently and resmebles Holly in many ways, JMO.

Trying to understand- are you saying that you think Holly may have been mistaken for Whitney? Or that Holly may have drew interest because of her association with Whitney?

cluciano63
12-01-2011, 02:35 PM
Trying to understand- are you saying that you think Holly may have been mistaken for Whitney? Or that Holly may have drew interest because of her association with Whitney?

I think it is POSSIBLE that Holly was mistaken for Whitney, that's all. Aapparently one of the videos she posted had info about thier homes, etc...or that Holly encountered someone who was after WD and decided to go through Holly to get to her...just an option that cannot be dismissed with what we know.

Oriah
12-01-2011, 02:53 PM
I think it is POSSIBLE that Holly was mistaken for Whitney, that's all. Aapparently one of the videos she posted had info about thier homes, etc...or that Holly encountered someone who was after WD and decided to go through Holly to get to her...just an option that cannot be dismissed with what we know.

I can see how someone may have been drawn to Holly through her close affiliation with Whitney- and it is so easy to 'find' someone these days- you don't have to put yourself on youTube to make that possible, that's for sure. :(

That's why I suggested we look at venues where Whitney and Holly may have connected prior to Holly's abduction. A list of public performances, shows, auditions, recordings, tapings, etc that Holly may have attended? Holiday functions, parties- anything. And locations of those?

These are all things we can sleuth out, I think.

cluciano63
12-01-2011, 03:01 PM
I can see how someone may have been drawn to Holly through her close affiliation with Whitney- and it is so easy to 'find' someone these days- you don't have to put yourself on youTube to make that possible, that's for sure. :(

That's why I suggested we look at venues where Whitney and Holly may have connected prior to Holly's abduction. A list of public performances, shows, auditions, recordings, tapings, etc that Holly may have attended? Holiday functions, parties- anything. And locations of those?

These are all things we can sleuth out, I think.

But how to know or determine where Holly may have gone? Even if we had a list of where WD performed, we wouldn't know if Holly attended, or who they may have seen or encountered...If WD was being "stalked" she may not have even known it.

Oriah
12-01-2011, 03:17 PM
But how to know or determine where Holly may have gone? Even if we had a list of where WD performed, we wouldn't know if Holly attended, or who they may have seen or encountered...If WD was being "stalked" she may not have even known it.

No we wouldn't know necessarily where Holly was- but we could look for photos online, search social media and fan websites- that sort of thing.

Wonless
12-01-2011, 04:10 PM
My original thought was that maybe someone was at the Bobo residence because they where looking for WD, ie they knew that the Mom of WD was a teacher at Scotts hill, and somehow followed KB home on mistake..and then after waiting for KB and husband to leave, started to snoop the Bobo residence thinking it was the Duncan house, and had an unexcepted encounter with HB..its just a though. I have seen the in pictures that there is a sign on the Bobo's mailbox that says "the Bobo's"..but that may not mean anything, its possible it wasn't seen.

wishuwerehere
12-01-2011, 05:52 PM
At the initial press conference, can anyone explain why the Sheriff was crying? Because at that point the public is being told Holly is missing, not deceased. So what up w/ the Sheriff? Is he just very emotional, or does he know (or believe) something we don't?

Wonless
12-01-2011, 08:57 PM
Another thought is that IMO the $75000 reward offered by the Gov. of TN, when compared to the $10000 reward offered in the Karen Johnson Swift case could be explained by the family relation to WD and the albeit brief and short lived National exposure that connection brought. Although most of the articles have disappear now, during the first weeks of the investigation, MSM routinely was printing headlines to the effect "Whitney Duncan's Cousin abducted". To a Govoner, 75k is probably a cheat price for positive national publicity.
I think another interesting aspect to the WD connection is that IMO she is a much more well known name in TN than she is everywhere else...so just by law of large numbers, IMO it would be more likely that an obcessed fan/stalker would be from the local TN area, maybe even the parsons/scotts hill area itself.

Plumeria5
12-01-2011, 09:58 PM
I was just going back over videos to see if anything stood out.
This one with Pat Brown was interesting to listen to but even
more than that, one thing that stood out to me in the video was
seeing the Bobo residence and the surrounding woods. I was expecting
the woods to appear much denser than what I see in video.
Even from an overhead shot and one down lower I would think
you would be able to see Holly and her abductor not just as they
entered the woods but also as they were walking farther into the woods.

Criminal Profiler Pat Brown discusses missing girl Holly Bobo on MSNBC Live - YouTube

Oriah
12-02-2011, 02:25 AM
I was just going back over videos to see if anything stood out.
This one with Pat Brown was interesting to listen to but even
more than that, one thing that stood out to me in the video was
seeing the Bobo residence and the surrounding woods. I was expecting
the woods to appear much denser than what I see in video.
Even from an overhead shot and one down lower I would think
you would be able to see Holly and her abductor not just as they
entered the woods but also as they were walking farther into the woods.

Criminal Profiler Pat Brown discusses missing girl Holly Bobo on MSNBC Live - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3d345Bokc98)

I can see why someone would think that from the shots surrounding the Bobo residence, but once you move slightly farther out, it is very dense with a lot of underbrush. Ditto for off of Swan Johnson. I think it appears that way in part around the residence due to the logging rd that goes around the pond, which is mostly cleared.

I think your point also helps to explain why a vehicle is thought to have been close by, waiting.

Eileen730
12-03-2011, 12:26 PM
I have a question! I hope someone might have an ans cause i cant find the ans anywhere.

when you look up Holly bobo on pplfinders or tennessee publice records she is
no where to be found. No birth records nada clint shows up Karen and Dana never a Holly! Im baffled!
Why would that be?

Carla Lashelle
12-03-2011, 05:09 PM
I have a question! I hope someone might have an ans cause i cant find the ans anywhere.

when you look up Holly bobo on pplfinders or tennessee publice records she is
no where to be found. No birth records nada clint shows up Karen and Dana never a Holly! Im baffled!
Why would that be?

Doesnt a lot of that stuff in public records come from property records, titles etc . that someone of her age would not have?

Carla Lashelle
12-03-2011, 05:15 PM
And yes WD could have her own stalker... I never said she didn't or couldnt.

But I doubt that if she had a stalker that the stalker would be dumb enough to follow the wrong mom home and then kidnap the wrong girl. And stalkers usually fixate on one person in particular. I do not know of any stalker that has fixated on one person then switched over and comitted a crime against someone else because they couldn't get their intended target.

I would think also that stalkers for the most part sort of escalate their stalking. They are rarely if ever just unknown. They contact their target, send them letters, call them, hang out at their house, etc. It is after the initial contacts etc are rebuffed that they become more dangerous.

So if WD ever had a stalker she has apparently never mentioned it to anyone including LE or at least there has been no public mention of it. Same with Holly. If someone was pestering Holly it has not come up.

I think the suspect while maybe similar to a stalker is someone who has targeted Holly. I don't think he had any prior contact with her or direct contact of any meaning or significance.

Eileen730
12-03-2011, 05:56 PM
Doesnt a lot of that stuff in public records come from property records, titles etc . that someone of her age would not have?

No thATS WHAT I THOUGHT TOO but i did it with me and my kids and they come up

Clint comes up
No Holly
she isnt even included in the 2010 census


When ya look up karen dana and clint come u[
when ya look up dana karen and clint come up
when ya look up clint dana and karen come up

there is no Holly bobo.


Its very strange.

Wonless
12-03-2011, 06:42 PM
And yes WD could have her own stalker... I never said she didn't or couldnt.

But I doubt that if she had a stalker that the stalker would be dumb enough to follow the wrong mom home and then kidnap the wrong girl. And stalkers usually fixate on one person in particular. I do not know of any stalker that has fixated on one person then switched over and comitted a crime against someone else because they couldn't get their intended target.

I would think also that stalkers for the most part sort of escalate their stalking. They are rarely if ever just unknown. They contact their target, send them letters, call them, hang out at their house, etc. It is after the initial contacts etc are rebuffed that they become more dangerous.

So if WD ever had a stalker she has apparently never mentioned it to anyone including LE or at least there has been no public mention of it. Same with Holly. If someone was pestering Holly it has not come up.

I think the suspect while maybe similar to a stalker is someone who has targeted Holly. I don't think he had any prior contact with her or direct contact of any meaning or significance.

Actually it wasn't my theory at all that the perp was dumb. I was thinking that, if you don't know exactly which teacher is WD's mom, or you mistake WD's mom for her sister KB, and you follow her home hoping to do some "investigation", but instead while you are on the property, you accidentally encounter HB walking to her car, and all of a sudden your plans change and you need to get rid of a witness..I think thats more likely than the perp targets HB intentionally, but I wouldn't say that possiblity could be totally dismissed either.

Eileen730
12-03-2011, 07:35 PM
All the phone calls that morning could have had something to do with all this. JMO

Wonless
12-04-2011, 02:03 AM
I just keep coming back to the way the crime went down, from the limited facts that we know, that this crime could have been caused by HB happening upon the perp by accident. I mean, assuming that the perp was targeting HB, I just seems like he/she/they would have had to know that Clint was home..and if that was known, why spend so long at the crime scene. The blood and the spilled coke make it seem like HB's encounter with the perp was a suprise. I keep thinking maybe a suprise to both of them. But if this person or people, happen to be there on the property for whatever reason, be it stalking, or robbery, or some other reason, and HB walks into him/her/them, then the evidence seems to make more sense. I don't know..its easy to come up with a million different senerio's that could have happened when there is so little known about what actually happened.

Mr. Noatak
12-04-2011, 05:34 AM
I just keep coming back to the way the crime went down, from the limited facts that we know, that this crime could have been caused by HB happening upon the perp by accident. I mean, assuming that the perp was targeting HB, I just seems like he/she/they would have had to know that Clint was home..and if that was known, why spend so long at the crime scene. The blood and the spilled coke make it seem like HB's encounter with the perp was a suprise. I keep thinking maybe a suprise to both of them. But if this person or people, happen to be there on the property for whatever reason, be it stalking, or robbery, or some other reason, and HB walks into him/her/them, then the evidence seems to make more sense. I don't know..its easy to come up with a million different senerio's that could have happened when there is so little known about what actually happened.

My opinions only, no facts here:

First, to Eileen730. What you say is interesting. When this case first broke, I did my "reverse search" involving Holly Bobo and other names in this case. What I did was, use advanced search on Google in a fashion as to see hits only PRIOR to Holly's disappearance (there are too many hits for this search strategy to work now). What I found, was that this family is much like mine, almost invisible on the internet. If you want to see a few additional crumbs about Holly Bobo, type in her name as an EXACT phrase and search only within PDF files with 2009 and 2010 as an "all these words" phrase. She appears to have been an exceptional high school student, bright and motivated.

To Wonless: I have heard two stories. One story makes it sound like Holly's brother was home for an extended period of time; the other version is that he was only visiting for a few days. Obviously, clearing up which of these versions is reality could help you better analyze what the perpetrator could have known about the presence of people at Holly's house.

Eileen730
12-04-2011, 08:33 AM
My opinions only, no facts here:

First, to Eileen730. What you say is interesting. When this case first broke, I did my "reverse search" involving Holly Bobo and other names in this case. What I did was, use advanced search on Google in a fashion as to see hits only PRIOR to Holly's disappearance (there are too many hits for this search strategy to work now). What I found, was that this family is much like mine, almost invisible on the internet. If you want to see a few additional crumbs about Holly Bobo, type in her name as an EXACT phrase and search only within PDF files with 2009 and 2010 as an "all these words" phrase. She appears to have been an exceptional high school student, bright and motivated.

To Wonless: I have heard two stories. One story makes it sound like Holly's brother was home for an extended period of time; the other version is that he was only visiting for a few days. Obviously, clearing up which of these versions is reality could help you better analyze what the perpetrator could have known about the presence of people at Holly's house.

Thank you for your reply!
I know about the schools all the decaturville tmes articles im just talking about regular public records search...she just dosent show up
clint does Karen and Dana... never Holly
I just find it strange,,,
My kids show up so does my mom and sister among others.
There is no Holly bobo at all.

You cant find info on them but it does tell you the names in the family.
Just very strange!

Hippy Chick
12-04-2011, 10:47 AM
That is exactly my point, I can't understand why nobody wants to talk about this..I mean litterally, celebrity stalking happenes all the time. I think it could be a legitimate motive to this crime. I shouldn't have ventured an opinion about anyones personal or professional choices, I get that, it won't happen again..but I think the evidence points to this as something within the realm of possiblity. This is a part of the country where people don't even lock there doors at night, and all of a sudden, bang, Holly Bobo is gone and the headline for months is "Country Singer Whitney Duncan's cousin abducted". What changed, the 20th annual coon hunt? Everyone says think out of the box:banghead:

I understand your reasoning here and don't think you were bashing anyone. I have thought the same thing about a stalker type. These girls are beautiful girls both of them and either one could easily have wack jobs stalking them. I don't believe she was bashing WD for her home town video, just bringing up a different option, and one that could be painfully real.I live in a similar area as this in Missouri and girls this beautiful are the exception not the norm. I also think its a local that wanted one of these girls and had admired one or both of them from afar not thru any fault of their own. Bottom line HB and WD are the type that alot of stalker type people go after....IMO

Hippy Chick
12-04-2011, 11:03 AM
Another thought is that IMO the $75000 reward offered by the Gov. of TN, when compared to the $10000 reward offered in the Karen Johnson Swift case could be explained by the family relation to WD and the albeit brief and short lived National exposure that connection brought. Although most of the articles have disappear now, during the first weeks of the investigation, MSM routinely was printing headlines to the effect "Whitney Duncan's Cousin abducted". To a Govoner, 75k is probably a cheat price for positive national publicity.
I think another interesting aspect to the WD connection is that IMO she is a much more well known name in TN than she is everywhere else...so just by law of large numbers, IMO it would be more likely that an obcessed fan/stalker would be from the local TN area, maybe even the parsons/scotts hill area itself.

In the area I live in the Queen of the hog calling contest at the local fair might be considered well known, and yes a budding Nashville star would be much more known in the state of TN. Not being a contry music fan i had never heard of WD but my sister and daughter knew who she was but again they are fans of contry music. I think both of these girls more than likely sang at different functions growing up from church, school, local fairs and the like and in this small community were very well known.

Carla Lashelle
12-04-2011, 11:03 AM
Actually it wasn't my theory at all that the perp was dumb. I was thinking that, if you don't know exactly which teacher is WD's mom, or you mistake WD's mom for her sister KB, and you follow her home hoping to do some "investigation", but instead while you are on the property, you accidentally encounter HB walking to her car, and all of a sudden your plans change and you need to get rid of a witness..I think thats more likely than the perp targets HB intentionally, but I wouldn't say that possiblity could be totally dismissed either.

Nothing can be dismissed but it does not seem logical that if you are just trespassing or poking around someones yard to all of a sudden assault, kidnap and probably kill them. That sort of escalation does not seem normal. And why not kill her on the spot rather than have some long winded conversation in the yard, garage, and then walk away

Carla Lashelle
12-04-2011, 11:06 AM
My opinions only, no facts here:


To Wonless: I have heard two stories. One story makes it sound like Holly's brother was home for an extended period of time; the other version is that he was only visiting for a few days. Obviously, clearing up which of these versions is reality could help you better analyze what the perpetrator could have known about the presence of people at Holly's house.

I had assumed based on details and various statements from assorted interviews etc that clint normally lived there, was going to school, etc. in no reports that I ever saw did it specifically say clint did not live at the family house.

TxLady2
12-04-2011, 05:58 PM
Actually it wasn't my theory at all that the perp was dumb. I was thinking that, if you don't know exactly which teacher is WD's mom, or you mistake WD's mom for her sister KB, and you follow her home hoping to do some "investigation", but instead while you are on the property, you accidentally encounter HB walking to her car, and all of a sudden your plans change and you need to get rid of a witness..I think thats more likely than the perp targets HB intentionally, but I wouldn't say that possiblity could be totally dismissed either.

Where does Whitney live? Is she still at home with her parents, or does she have her own place? I had never heard of her before Holly went missing, but I'm not a big country music fan. I know of some of the major celebrities, but not all. How far is Darden from Nashville? Most rising stars prefer to live close to the home of country music. Kind of hard to boost your career if you aren't there, I would think.

If the perp followed Holly's mom home from work, then he would have had to spend the night on the property. School ends around 3:30 or so, teachers leave sometime after that. Holly was abducted after 7:30 the next morning.

I think it's more likely that someone was stalking Holly, I just doubt that it had anything to do with Whitney. Unless he was from around that area, and knew them, he may not have even realized there was a family connection, unless Holly went around bragging about it.

Carla Lashelle
12-04-2011, 06:53 PM
Whitney is from Scotts Hill TN and AFAIK has not lived in Darden. She was married in Gatlinberg TN last year and filed for a divorce this month.

With so much basic info available about pretty much anyone on the internet, I doubt someone somehow followed Holly's mom home thinking they were going to Whitney's house. I could have figured that out within a few minutes myself if I were so inclined.

OldSteve
12-04-2011, 07:23 PM
Nothing can be dismissed but it does not seem logical that if you are just trespassing or poking around someones yard to all of a sudden assault, kidnap and probably kill them. That sort of escalation does not seem normal. And why not kill her on the spot rather than have some long winded conversation in the yard, garage, and then walk away

Agree! Things went much too smoothly for this not to be an well-planned... It seemed IMO that he figured he could get away with it even with Clint being home (as if he knew Clint might still be sleeping)...

Wonless
12-05-2011, 02:09 AM
Where does Whitney live? Is she still at home with her parents, or does she have her own place? I had never heard of her before Holly went missing, but I'm not a big country music fan. I know of some of the major celebrities, but not all. How far is Darden from Nashville? Most rising stars prefer to live close to the home of country music. Kind of hard to boost your career if you aren't there, I would think.

If the perp followed Holly's mom home from work, then he would have had to spend the night on the property. School ends around 3:30 or so, teachers leave sometime after that. Holly was abducted after 7:30 the next morning.

I think it's more likely that someone was stalking Holly, I just doubt that it had anything to do with Whitney. Unless he was from around that area, and knew them, he may not have even realized there was a family connection, unless Holly went around bragging about it.

As far as I know WD lives in Nashville..at least that is my inpression. She was a co-host for a Nashville based country music program for a short time, but I think that was before Holly's abduction.

It seems to me also that if someone had followed KB home, it makes sense they would have had to either say on the property, or have left and come back sometime early in the am. Im sure LE would have checked all the local hotel registary's, so that again would point to somebody who lived close by. The other thing is it might make sense, since Dana Bobo goes to work so early, he would likely be home by 3 if he started at 6. So the possiblity is that KB is followed home, but DB was home, so the prep waited for him to leave, would have been early the next morning.

Wonless
12-05-2011, 02:11 AM
My opinions only, no facts here:

First, to Eileen730. What you say is interesting. When this case first broke, I did my "reverse search" involving Holly Bobo and other names in this case. What I did was, use advanced search on Google in a fashion as to see hits only PRIOR to Holly's disappearance (there are too many hits for this search strategy to work now). What I found, was that this family is much like mine, almost invisible on the internet. If you want to see a few additional crumbs about Holly Bobo, type in her name as an EXACT phrase and search only within PDF files with 2009 and 2010 as an "all these words" phrase. She appears to have been an exceptional high school student, bright and motivated.

To Wonless: I have heard two stories. One story makes it sound like Holly's brother was home for an extended period of time; the other version is that he was only visiting for a few days. Obviously, clearing up which of these versions is reality could help you better analyze what the perpetrator could have known about the presence of people at Holly's house.

Im with you, never has been stated as a fact either way.

Wonless
12-05-2011, 02:18 AM
I understand your reasoning here and don't think you were bashing anyone. I have thought the same thing about a stalker type. These girls are beautiful girls both of them and either one could easily have wack jobs stalking them. I don't believe she was bashing WD for her home town video, just bringing up a different option, and one that could be painfully real.I live in a similar area as this in Missouri and girls this beautiful are the exception not the norm. I also think its a local that wanted one of these girls and had admired one or both of them from afar not thru any fault of their own. Bottom line HB and WD are the type that alot of stalker type people go after....IMO

I totally agree, either one of them could have been the victim of a stalker..
I have to admit that the WD stalker involved in HB abduction is a stretch..but I just think its to much of a coincidence.

Wonless
12-05-2011, 02:32 AM
Nothing can be dismissed but it does not seem logical that if you are just trespassing or poking around someones yard to all of a sudden assault, kidnap and probably kill them. That sort of escalation does not seem normal. And why not kill her on the spot rather than have some long winded conversation in the yard, garage, and then walk away


Because of the blood, my take on this is that very soon after the perp meets Holly in the garage/carport..he has committed two felonies, criminal trespass, and assualt...maybe the question is, what caused the perp to add on kidnapping and possibly murder..was it that Holly would recognize him?

Carla Lashelle
12-05-2011, 09:01 AM
Because of the blood, my take on this is that very soon after the perp meets Holly in the garage/carport..he has committed two felonies, criminal trespass, and assualt...maybe the question is, what caused the perp to add on kidnapping and possibly murder..was it that Holly would recognize him?

well just being on someone's property may/may not be a huge criminal issue. So if Holly opened up the back door and saw some guy in the back yard, and he just ran off... he probably would not be charged with much, or anything.

I do not think things "escalated" just randomly that this was, somehow, planned and thought out (for exactly what purpose I am not sure). I do think the suspect intended to go inside the house (he did to some extent by taking Holly from outside into the garage). And perhaps Clint and the dog spooked him. I think he did not know that Clint was home.

Again if it were to just silence a witness why not kill them on the spot. And since the suspect was dressed head to toe in camo, he could have also had a face mask or cover as to not be identified. After all Clint did not readily identify the suspect and only assumed it was Drew.

All I can do is reconstruct actual events based on the few known details, but we do not have motive, intent, ultimate goal, etc.

1) Holly went outside to her car, parked in the open car port behind the house.

2) Something happened and she screamed and was perhaps struck or hit.

3) Neighbor heard the screams. Dog barking wakes Clint up. Suspect and Holly apparently talked since Clint heard voices outside (in the yard)

4) Suspect and Holly entered the enclosed garage (I assume via the door Holly exited the house to go to her car, or a door near the carport)

5) Clint sees silhouettes in the garage and later finds blood in that spot

6) Clint goes away from garage area of the house, calls his mom

7) Clint sees Holly and suspect walking northward in the yard

8) Clint gets a gun and goes outside

9) Neighbor arrives on the scene and Clint talks to neighbor, does not pursue suspect

10) Law enforcement arrives and reportedly does not immediately pursue suspect

Oriah
12-05-2011, 12:03 PM
Thank you for your reply!
I know about the schools all the decaturville tmes articles im just talking about regular public records search...she just dosent show up
clint does Karen and Dana... never Holly
I just find it strange,,,
My kids show up so does my mom and sister among others.
There is no Holly bobo at all.

You cant find info on them but it does tell you the names in the family.
Just very strange!

Please let's NOT go down the "Holly never existed" train of thought again.

Please, peeps.

Carla Lashelle
12-05-2011, 01:31 PM
There are probably very logical or normal reasons why someone does not show up in a BASIC public record search. Age probably has to do a lot with it, and also not being involved in legal matters, having obtained things like a marriage license, property deed, etc. I finished a bankruptcy lately and my lawyer had some trouble finding some public record things about me that should have been easy to find, and he was using some data bases etc that the average person on the internet doesn't have access to.

Plumeria5
12-05-2011, 06:30 PM
I know this is off topic but I am so angry!

Jorelys Rivera gated community broad daylight savagely beaten, assaulted.
What is wrong with this society?? Little girls can't get drinks for their friends and play at the park. I know she wasn't supervised as she should have been but kids shouldn't have to be looking over their shoulder constantly.

Nursing students can't get their education to fulfill their dreams of helping others.

I really have had it! This guy is probably drinking one of the Cokes watching the tv coverage in that complex somewhere.

Holly's abuctor is going on with his life with the satisfaction he got away with it and will strike again.

I didn't want to ever share this but I have been a victim as a child. My abductor was a very respected member of our community. I know first hand the fear. Lucky for me when he took me in his car, someone followed and he was caught. Jorelys and likely Holly were not so lucky. This makes me so sad...I couldn't keep this to myself anymore.

~n/t~
12-05-2011, 07:02 PM
I know this is off topic but I am so angry!

Jorelys Rivera gated community broad daylight savagely beaten, assaulted.
What is wrong with this society?? Little girls can't get drinks for their friends and play at the park. I know she wasn't supervised as she should have been but kids shouldn't have to be looking over their shoulder constantly.

Nursing students can't get their education to fulfill their dreams of helping others.

I really have had it! This guy is probably drinking one of the Cokes watching the tv coverage in that complex somewhere.

Holly's abuctor is going on with his life with the satisfaction he got away with it and will strike again.

I didn't want to ever share this but I have been a victim as a child. My abductor was a very respected member of our community. I know first hand the fear. Lucky for me when he took me in his car, someone followed and he was caught. Jorelys and likely Holly were not so lucky. This makes me so sad...I couldn't keep this to myself anymore.


:hug:

nosyone
12-05-2011, 08:01 PM
This is a very SMALL detail, but I read that HB's dad left money for gas on the kitchen counter for her. I never read whether she had actually taken that money or if it was still there. I am thinking that if it were still there, that might indicate that she meant to come back into the house before finally leaving.

Wonless
12-05-2011, 11:10 PM
This is a very SMALL detail, but I read that HB's dad left money for gas on the kitchen counter for her. I never read whether she had actually taken that money or if it was still there. I am thinking that if it were still there, that might indicate that she meant to come back into the house before finally leaving.

Its a good thought, It would explain alot of things, but why have the lunch bag and not the money. I was watching the Long Island Serial Killer special on A&E tonight, and I thought it was interesting to hear the family's say that the police won't tell them anything also. I guess that this must be more common than we think.

goldiegirl
12-05-2011, 11:30 PM
Been thinking about the different approach families take in these tragic cases - some are very outspoken and in the media, some are very quite and remain out the spotlight. I'm curious if in the recent cases of this year; has this made any difference?


I just saw a rerun of Disappeared about Morgan Harrington tonight and was thinking about this same thing. You asked for cases within the year, and I know Morgan disappeared in 2009, but it's still relevant.

I don't remember the exact wording, but Morgan's mom made a statement about how they decided to do as much as they could to get the word out, and in this case it did make a difference, maybe not in the resolution, but at least in terms of a sighting; because of all of the press coverage, a woman came forward saying she had seen Morgan that night and recognized her from the coverage.

I do have to say, though, although we haven't seen the Bobos as much as we've seen or heard from other families, I do think the local commnunity has been pretty saturated with flyers of Holly and are familiar with what she looks like. Having said this, of course if she's not close to home this won't be helpful, and I do agree that people nationally probably aren't as familiar with Holly Bobo as they may be with other missing persons.

Mr. Noatak
12-06-2011, 02:00 AM
I had assumed based on details and various statements from assorted interviews etc that clint normally lived there, was going to school, etc. in no reports that I ever saw did it specifically say clint did not live at the family house.

My opinions only, no facts here:

Though I have heard both stories (brother visiting vs. brother home most of the time), I tend to agree with you when the sum of all reports is considered. This is interesting, since if the perpetrator was familiar with the family schedule and waiting nearby, it would be quite bold to kidnap Holly while another family member is unaccounted for (had not left the house for work/school yet).

Carla Lashelle
12-06-2011, 09:56 AM
My opinions only, no facts here:

Though I have heard both stories (brother visiting vs. brother home most of the time), I tend to agree with you when the sum of all reports is considered. This is interesting, since if the perpetrator was familiar with the family schedule and waiting nearby, it would be quite bold to kidnap Holly while another family member is unaccounted for (had not left the house for work/school yet).

I suppose it would depend, perhaps, on these factors:

1) suspect did not know exactly who lived at the house and had, maybe, seen Dana and Karen leave and thought Holly was the only other member at home.

2) suspect did not care or was confident enough he could snatch Holly when she went outside

3) the kidnapping was not the main crime or reason why the suspect was there, ie a home invasion, burglary, etc. and the kidnapping became more of a crime of opportunity (not that I really believe this is what happened)

I somehow have this nagging feeling that MORE happened at the house that morning and that Clint (who has said the most) and LE (who has not said much) are speaking around a lot of details. I really don't think anyone is lying, but I do think that, to hide or protect various details of what did happen, the resulting story presented by Clint is choppy and full of holes.

Really until we get more details or some other new evidence comes up there is not much we can do about this case. All of us have spent 7 months going over every minute detail of the case that has been made public from day one, and with little real headway. I know my basic ideas about what happened were formed within the first few weeks/month.

Eileen730
12-06-2011, 01:41 PM
I just keep coming back to the way the crime went down, from the limited facts that we know, that this crime could have been caused by HB happening upon the perp by accident. I mean, assuming that the perp was targeting HB, I just seems like he/she/they would have had to know that Clint was home..and if that was known, why spend so long at the crime scene. The blood and the spilled coke make it seem like HB's encounter with the perp was a suprise. I keep thinking maybe a suprise to both of them. But if this person or people, happen to be there on the property for whatever reason, be it stalking, or robbery, or some other reason, and HB walks into him/her/them, then the evidence seems to make more sense. I don't know..its easy to come up with a million different senerio's that could have happened when there is so little known about what actually happened.

I have a hard time with anyone going to a home with 2 dogs and
family that could or could not be home...
I cant see it...
Once the dogs start barking the perp would be gone.

this person knows her.
Could be family member or BF JMO

Eileen730
12-06-2011, 01:52 PM
I suppose it would depend, perhaps, on these factors:

1) suspect did not know exactly who lived at the house and had, maybe, seen Dana and Karen leave and thought Holly was the only other member at home.

2) suspect did not care or was confident enough he could snatch Holly when she went outside

3) the kidnapping was not the main crime or reason why the suspect was there, ie a home invasion, burglary, etc. and the kidnapping became more of a crime of opportunity (not that I really believe this is what happened)

I somehow have this nagging feeling that MORE happened at the house that morning and that Clint (who has said the most) and LE (who has not said much) are speaking around a lot of details. I really don't think anyone is lying, but I do think that, to hide or protect various details of what did happen, the resulting story presented by Clint is choppy and full of holes.

Really until we get more details or some other new evidence comes up there is not much we can do about this case. All of us have spent 7 months going over every minute detail of the case that has been made public from day one, and with little real headway. I know my basic ideas about what happened were formed within the first few weeks/month.

If ya go back and listen to clint talk one thing that he has said over and over again is he thought it was DREW. That is one thing that has not changed ..
Could this be true?

We dont really know where he was that morning and the grandothers property
where it was said he was hunting is only 3o or so mins away from Hollys.

There are many things we dont know.
But Karen said she talks to Drew every night! Why?

Why have we heard nothing from him or any of his family.

Food for thought and JMO

Eileen730
12-06-2011, 01:53 PM
My opinions only, no facts here:

Though I have heard both stories (brother visiting vs. brother home most of the time), I tend to agree with you when the sum of all reports is considered. This is interesting, since if the perpetrator was familiar with the family schedule and waiting nearby, it would be quite bold to kidnap Holly while another family member is unaccounted for (had not left the house for work/school yet).



I believe Clint lives at home.

he was not supposed to be home that morning tho! says Karen!

OldSteve
12-06-2011, 02:19 PM
I believe Clint lives at home.

he was not supposed to be home that morning tho! says Karen!

I don't remember hearing that Clint was not supposed to be home... did I miss that in one of the later interviews where more info was given?

Carla Lashelle
12-06-2011, 04:20 PM
If ya go back and listen to clint talk one thing that he has said over and over again is he thought it was DREW. That is one thing that has not changed ..
Could this be true?

We dont really know where he was that morning and the grandothers property
where it was said he was hunting is only 3o or so mins away from Hollys.

There are many things we dont know.
But Karen said she talks to Drew every night! Why?

Why have we heard nothing from him or any of his family.

Food for thought and JMO


Well we have not heard a whole lot from anyone really. The thing is that IF it were Drew... big IF... WHY? What motive? What rationale? There is still the time line with the screams and 911 calls, blood, etc. You would think if her b/f did it he would know who was at home, there would not be some need for an assault, taking her away to the woods, etc. Just doesn't make sense that way (at least to me).

Carla Lashelle
12-06-2011, 04:22 PM
BBM:

Would you mind explaining the source of this characterization of Holly- and any boyfriends she may have/had?
It is the complete opposite of everything I have read in MSM regarding Holly's relationships.

In addition to that not really matching with any legit accounts of Holly, it is known that Holly and Drew have been together for some time... so this alleged supposed mystery ex b/f would have to have been from many years back.

I do agree that this does not seem like the kind of crime a teenager or 20 year old would carry out.

wishuwerehere
12-06-2011, 04:25 PM
Strange coincidence that within a 10 minute timeframe the eyewitness had at least three opportunities to see and/or confront camo man and Holly, however:

1) He first sees camo man and Holly kneeling down in garage, but only sees silhouettes. (Instead of confronting them, he calls his mom.)
2) He sees them again walking into the woods, but only sees the back of camo man’s head.
3) Thirdly, he arms himself with a gun at the behest of his mother and is ready to go into the woods after them, but instead stops to give the neighbor his attention.

I find it interesting to look at this case with the eyewitness testimony thrown out.

jmo

wishuwerehere
12-06-2011, 05:03 PM
cjchoirboy:

Are you a local to Darden or Parsons, TN?

nosyone
12-06-2011, 07:47 PM
Its a good thought, It would explain alot of things, but why have the lunch bag and not the money. I was watching the Long Island Serial Killer special on A&E tonight, and I thought it was interesting to hear the family's say that the police won't tell them anything also. I guess that this must be more common than we think.
I have heard about the lunch bag but haven't heard about a purse. Did she have one that she usually carried?

Carla Lashelle
12-06-2011, 07:50 PM
:twocents:I have heard about the lunch bag but haven't heard about a purse. Did she have one that she usually carried?

No mention of any purse or bag has ever been made by anyone. The only item that is confirmed that she was carrying was the lunch bag. It is assumed that she had her cell phone as Karen said she did not know if it had been found or not. Other than that, no description of anything else she may have had has ever been released.

cluciano63
12-06-2011, 08:51 PM
I can't find a link any longer, but I do recall someone from LE saying something about keeping any eye out for a purse, books and other items...way back when. I remember because I was wondering how she was carrying so many things, if she did not have a knapsack or a book bag...JMO

Plumeria5
12-06-2011, 11:21 PM
I can't find a link any longer, but I do recall someone from LE saying something about keeping any eye out for a purse, books and other items...way back when. I remember because I was wondering how she was carrying so many things, if she did not have a knapsack or a book bag...JMO

She surely had a purse, her lunch bag, and a jacket of some sort. Since she took her lunch, it doesn't appear she was going to be leaving school until after lunch and had more classes than just the one she had the test in. So, she probably did have books. It was cold and damp that morning so why flip-flops? She told her friend she had to put her shoes on. I wouldn't think she would refer to flip-flops as shoes. And she had a Coke. Maybe she was drinking it as she went to her car as she was tired and needed caffeine since she got up so early to study. Sounds like she would need a backpack. Very puzzling why only the lunch bag seems to have been found and why was it allowed to be taken?

Mr. Noatak
12-07-2011, 03:38 AM
She surely had a purse, her lunch bag, and a jacket of some sort. Since she took her lunch, it doesn't appear she was going to be leaving school until after lunch and had more classes than just the one she had the test in. So, she probably did have books. It was cold and damp that morning so why flip-flops? She told her friend she had to put her shoes on. I wouldn't think she would refer to flip-flops as shoes. And she had a Coke. Maybe she was drinking it as she went to her car as she was tired and needed caffeine since she got up so early to study. Sounds like she would need a backpack. Very puzzling why only the lunch bag seems to have been found and why was it allowed to be taken?

My opinions only, no facts here:

I agree about the bag conundrum. Why would the perpetrator also kidnap Holly's lunch bag? And if the bag is so important that it must be taken along, why dump it later? Unwieldy things like her purse and bag would have been discarded right off. Either in the garage, lawn, or nearby woods.

I know that in many, many criminal cases the victim's purse, cell phone, etc. are found miles away. But these cases typically involve a snatch and grab from street-side or a carjacking. Not a ten minute conversation (and possible assault) and then a slow walk into the woods.

Carla Lashelle
12-07-2011, 08:21 AM
Well again about why the lunch bag was taken... it seems probably that 1) the lunch bag was in a larger bag that Holly had slung over her shoulder... so the bag went with her when she walked away or 2) the bag itself had a shoulder strap. Either way seems logical and probable.

I have seen no direct quote from Holly about wearing shoes of flip flops. The original description said white sneakers or tennis shoes but at some point a month or two into the search it just changed to flip flops. I find flip flops rather odd given the weather for that day... cold and rainy, although I wear them here in Florida quite often in various weather.

CocoChanel
12-07-2011, 08:47 AM
Strange coincidence that within a 10 minute timeframe the eyewitness had at least three opportunities to see and/or confront camo man and Holly, however:

1) He first sees camo man and Holly kneeling down in garage, but only sees silhouettes. (Instead of confronting them, he calls his mom.)
2) He sees them again walking into the woods, but only sees the back of camo man’s head.
3) Thirdly, he arms himself with a gun at the behest of his mother and is ready to go into the woods after them, but instead stops to give the neighbor his attention.

I find it interesting to look at this case with the eyewitness testimony thrown out.

jmo

BBM
I like this suggestion. Put aside the things that don't make sense to us and look at this from a changed perspective. Added to the perplexing things I will try to discard is that the eyewitness to the crime is not the one who called 911.

KB made an immediate decision to call 911 from some distance away. She had knowledge that this was an emergency situation. I believe she certainly has disclosed this knowledge to LE, but I don't believe we have been told what that knowledge is, or how it became known to her. I suspect it perhaps came in the flurry of calls and texts that morning PRIOR to the call to 911.

My beliefs and thoughts are MY OPINION ONLY based on the facts that make sense to me from that morning, minus the eyewitness account.

Carla Lashelle
12-07-2011, 09:06 AM
I had not seen any mention of this but the body of Gail Palmgren, also missing in TN was found after a seven month search.

http://www.wrcbtv.com/story/16200033/remains-from-signal-mountain-confirmed

I know some people here speculated her disappearance could be linked to Holly's but it seems she died in a jeep wreck, as her body was found in her wrecked vehicle off the side of a road.

Plumeria5
12-07-2011, 01:10 PM
I had not seen any mention of this but the body of Gail Palmgren, also missing in TN was found after a seven month search.

http://www.wrcbtv.com/story/16200033/remains-from-signal-mountain-confirmed

I know some people here speculated her disappearance could be linked to Holly's but it seems she died in a jeep wreck, as her body was found in her wrecked vehicle off the side of a road.

Thanks for the article. Poor lady. Now it appears there is a controversy over where the $2000 reward money should go. :(
http://www.wrcbtv.com/story/16202545/controversy-over-palmgren-reward-fund

Hippy Chick
12-07-2011, 03:03 PM
I have read everything I can find about this case and have followed here since the abduction, I also saw the JVM interview and this is my take. Holly was a beautiful girl and well known in this community. I think this is a local that wanted her and she had probably rebuffed him or he had never had the nerve to outright ask her, if he had been caught there the guise of turkey hunting would have got him off the hook for trespassing. When she saw him it startled her she dropped her soda the "lunch purse" not sure wht that exatly is but maybe like a tote maybe that she could carry her books, lunch, phone, wallet, etc in was either slung on her shoulder or on like a back pack(hope that makes sence). She probably spoke with him trying to get rid of him, hence the voices that clint heard.He probably had a shot gun (again the guise of turkey hunting) and took her at that time by force, raped and unfortantly killed her. I think the perp thought Holly was home alone thinking parents gone to work, Clint to school or turkey hunting. I also think Clint saw more than he can say and told his mother on the phone the reason KB was immediatley aware something was wrong. As I have said I live in Missouri in a community similar to this one and people out turkey hunting are not given a 2nd thought to and alot of hillbilly (redneck) types would lust after a beautiful young girl like this and think they could go unnoticied enough to take her and that is exactly what has happened. IMO Also the ? of flip flops vs shoes my daughter wears flip flops as soon as she can in the spring so that dosen't strike me as unusual just kinda a young girl thing...

Plumeria5
12-07-2011, 03:54 PM
Whether she was wearing shoes or flip flops isn't that significant I guess, but it seems that flip flops would have been hard to keep on in a struggle or walking through the brush and might have been recovered somewhere.

Bringing up the fact about Clint being home makes me wonder. Was Holly's abductor so close to the family that he knew Drew was going turkey hunting and originally maybe Clint was to go too but for some reason changed his plans. Thus when the abductor saw Clint's car he thought that Drew had picked up Clint and that he wasn't home, leaving Holly all alone at the house.

Chili Fries
12-07-2011, 08:29 PM
Whether she was wearing shoes or flip flops isn't that significant I guess, but it seems that flip flops would have been hard to keep on in a struggle or walking through the brush and might have been recovered somewhere.

Bringing up the fact about Clint being home makes me wonder. Was Holly's abductor so close to the family that he knew Drew was going turkey hunting and originally maybe Clint was to go too but for some reason changed his plans. Thus when the abductor saw Clint's car he thought that Drew had picked up Clint and that he wasn't home, leaving Holly all alone at the house.

Good point about the car. I had thought that he is someone who works with Clint, because I believe Clint was supposed to be at work that morning.

Great summary by Hippy Chick. I think it could very well be that he was someone who noticed her in that way without her realizing it.

nosyone
12-07-2011, 09:32 PM
The only thing that I know about this case is that I don't know what in the heck happened! There are so many things that bother me! One major thing that puzzles me is KB's reaction of immediate terror when she got the call. I feel like she had an idea that there was impending danger, just a gut feeling I have. I don't know whether I want her to still be alive so badly that I imagine a gut feeling that she is, or whether it is truly a gut feeling, but I do think she is still alive. Most importantly, I want this case to be solved for her, her family and all the people who have been interested in her and prayed for her, all deserve it.

OldSteve
12-08-2011, 12:53 PM
The only thing that I know about this case is that I don't know what in the heck happened! There are so many things that bother me! One major thing that puzzles me is KB's reaction of immediate terror when she got the call. I feel like she had an idea that there was impending danger, just a gut feeling I have. I don't know whether I want her to still be alive so badly that I imagine a gut feeling that she is, or whether it is truly a gut feeling, but I do think she is still alive. Most importantly, I want this case to be solved for her, her family and all the people who have been interested in her and prayed for her, all deserve it.

Well said! Like you, I agree that "The only thing that I know about this case is that I don't know what in the heck happened!" - and I'm sure that goes for the rest of us. Just hope, it doesn't go for LE as well.

Carla Lashelle
12-08-2011, 07:26 PM
http://www.wkrn.com/story/16219984/holly-bobo-update

I think the family spokesperson, Mr. B, is a bit optimistic... " we're hoping that we'll have a conclusion, hopefully, by the end of the year"

Note he did not say this year... (I am being sarcastic there). If he means 2011 a whole lot had better happen in the next three weeks.

Carla Lashelle
12-08-2011, 07:36 PM
I also missed this article/clip from last month. I don't recall anyone else posting it.

http://www.wbbjtv.com/news/local/SheriffAsksHuntersForHelpInBoboSearch-133273618.html

If they are still looking for things Holly or the suspect might have dropped that implies they have not found them...

~n/t~
12-08-2011, 07:54 PM
I also missed this article/clip from last month. I don't recall anyone else posting it.

http://www.wbbjtv.com/news/local/SheriffAsksHuntersForHelpInBoboSearch-133273618.html

If they are still looking for things Holly or the suspect might have dropped that implies they have not found them...

"We would just ask them to be aware of their surroundings and if they see any articles such as clothing or articles that a lady might carry within her purse, or something of that nature, something that could have been left behind or dropped," said Sheriff Roy Wyatt.


bbm

Would this imply her purse was found but not the contents or she didn't have a purse? Her wallet? :waitasec:

~n/t~
12-08-2011, 07:56 PM
http://www.wkrn.com/story/16219984/holly-bobo-update

I think the family spokesperson, Mr. B, is a bit optimistic... " we're hoping that we'll have a conclusion, hopefully, by the end of the year"

Note he did not say this year... (I am being sarcastic there). If he means 2011 a whole lot had better happen in the next three weeks.

"The Bobos' are in a wonderful community and there is a lot of support still in Decatur County and in the Parsons area. They are having events periodically for Holly and the ribbons that were there in the beginning are still there [in the community] and they get replaced often," Bromley said



bbm

:waitasec:

wishuwerehere
12-09-2011, 02:19 AM
In the Michelle Parker case info about her cell phone being found has been released to the media. I agree with this tactic by LE. Her phone was found under a bridge at Lake Conway therefore anyone out in the public who may have seen anyone near that bridge or lake acting suspicious, etc. can give a tip to police. I realize this case is very different from Holly's, but by publically releasing the info about finding Michelle's phone it is attracting a lot of attention and will probably produce many tips, which is a good thing.

I know LE has not released info about the item belonging to Holly which was found during Easter. I’m having a hard time wrapping my head around the decision not to release that information. If it is Holly’s phone which was found (or whatever item), why not let the public know?

jmo

CanManEh
12-09-2011, 03:05 AM
The only thing that I know about this case is that I don't know what in the heck happened [/B]There are so many things that bother me! One major thing that puzzles me is KB's reaction of immediate terror when she got the call. I feel like she had an idea that there was impending danger, just a gut feeling I have. I don't know whether I want her to still be alive so badly that I imagine a gut feeling that she is, or whether it is truly a gut feeling, but I do think she is still alive. Most importantly, I want this case to be solved for her, her family and all the people who have been interested in her and prayed for her, all deserve it.

LOL ....Now thats honesty and hillarious . :great:

Mr. Noatak
12-09-2011, 04:56 AM
In the Michelle Parker case info about her cell phone being found has been released to the media. I agree with this tactic by LE. Her phone was found under a bridge at Lake Conway therefore anyone out in the public who may have seen anyone near that bridge or lake acting suspicious, etc. can give a tip to police. I realize this case is very different from Holly's, but by publically releasing the info about finding Michelle's phone it is attracting a lot of attention and will probably produce many tips, which is a good thing.

I know LE has not released info about the item belonging to Holly which was found during Easter. I’m having a hard time wrapping my head around the decision not to release that information. If it is Holly’s phone which was found (or whatever item), why not let the public know?

jmo

My opinions only, no facts here:

I would like to see the State Attorney General press for the release of all PUBLIC information in the Holly Bobo case, but not until early 2012. As I have pointed out in earlier posts, it is possible that the police are waiting to see if the familial DNA bill passes and becomes law at the beginning of 2012. This could help them advance their case.

But, if we find ourselves into March or April, 2012 and still banging our heads against the wall, I would (in my opinion) plead for a release of every detail involving this case. WE paid for the investigation. At some point, I suppose we have the privilege of seeing what we paid for.

Oriah
12-09-2011, 06:14 AM
Respectfully snipped from article, for focus:

"It's by far not a cold case by any means," he said during a phone interview Thursday. "[Investigators are] working, they have a task force that is working specifically on Holly's case and we believe there are things that they are working on and we're hoping that we'll have a conclusion, hopefully, by the end of the year."

~n/t~
12-09-2011, 06:16 AM
My opinions only, no facts here:

I would like to see the State Attorney General press for the release of all PUBLIC information in the Holly Bobo case, but not until early 2012. As I have pointed out in earlier posts, it is possible that the police are waiting to see if the familial DNA bill passes and becomes law at the beginning of 2012. This could help them advance their case.

But, if we find ourselves into March or April, 2012 and still banging our heads against the wall, I would (in my opinion) plead for a release of every detail involving this case. WE paid for the investigation. At some point, I suppose we have the privilege of seeing what we paid for.

In light of what you just posted, I think it interesting that Bromley said this:

"It's by far not a cold case by any means," he said during a phone interview Thursday. "[Investigators are] working, they have a task force that is working specifically on Holly's case and we believe there are things that they are working on and we're hoping that we'll have a conclusion, hopefully, by the end of the year."

Plumeria5
12-09-2011, 09:09 PM
In light of what you just posted, I think it interesting that Bromley said this:

"Hoping and hopefully" Not sure if this is wishful thinking by Bromley or if they really are onto someone.

Everyday is hard for families with missing loved ones, but the holidays must be unbearable.

Mr. Noatak
12-10-2011, 03:47 AM
In light of what you just posted, I think it interesting that Bromley said this:

My opinions only, no facts here:

I have for some time been considering the possibility that officials have gathered (DNA) skin cell or hair evidence from the limited items recovered, but lack a direct match in their database. If they are allowed to look for familial DNA (close, but not identical) matches in their database, then they might be able to back-trace the DNA to a viable suspect who is closely related to the criminal-DNA that they already have on file. I cannot emphasize enough what a powerful tool this can be for law enforcement.

cluciano63
12-10-2011, 12:22 PM
If a law is passed, can it be used for cases that took place prior to it being passed? (re: familial DNA, for example)

Mr. Noatak
12-11-2011, 01:29 AM
If a law is passed, can it be used for cases that took place prior to it being passed? (re: familial DNA, for example)

My opinions only, no facts here:

A good question. The retroactive character of legislation should always be considered. I think such a law would fully apply to previous cases because it does not change the penalties for those already charged and/or convicted. But lawyers will ultimately hash it out.

Oriah
12-11-2011, 05:09 AM
My opinions only, no facts here:

A good question. The retroactive character of legislation should always be considered. I think such a law would fully apply to previous cases because it does not change the penalties for those already charged and/or convicted. But lawyers will ultimately hash it out.

I agree that this law would be a useful tool for LE- but have a hard time with the invasion of privacy, showing cause, and assumption of innocence. It's a big 'ole can of worms to me. But I'll be interested to see what happens in January.

At any rate, I am curious as to why you feel it is so important in Holly's case? Familial DNA could very well have already been taken with consent from the 'owners'. But we would have no way of knowing that at this point.
Why do you think it would have such an impact on Holly's case?

Carla Lashelle
12-11-2011, 08:11 AM
My opinions only, no facts here:

A good question. The retroactive character of legislation should always be considered. I think such a law would fully apply to previous cases because it does not change the penalties for those already charged and/or convicted. But lawyers will ultimately hash it out.

I would assume like current DNA evidence it would be able to applied to old cases. Look at a lot of cold cases going back decades that have been reeopened with the advent of modern DNA testing and analysis

TxLady2
12-11-2011, 08:54 AM
I agree that this law would be a useful tool for LE- but have a hard time with the invasion of privacy, showing cause, and assumption of innocence. It's a big 'ole can of worms to me. But I'll be interested to see what happens in January.

At any rate, I am curious as to why you feel it is so important in Holly's case? Familial DNA could very well have already been taken with consent from the 'owners'. But we would have no way of knowing that at this point.
Why do you think it would have such an impact on Holly's case?

I was wondering the same thing. Since Holly was abducted from her home, and her body has not been found, how would the family's DNA have any impact on the case? Their DNA is going to be all over the place anyway.

~n/t~
12-11-2011, 09:17 AM
I was wondering the same thing. Since Holly was abducted from her home, and her body has not been found, how would the family's DNA have any impact on the case? Their DNA is going to be all over the place anyway.

I don't think familial DNA has anything to do with a family member unless the family member already has a their DNA profile in the database for a crime already committed.

More on Familial DNA

http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/03/30/us-crime-dna-familial-idUSTRE72T2QS20110330

http://news.sciencemag.org/scienceinsider/2010/07/scientists-explain-how-familial.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DNA_profiling#Familial_DNA_searching

Oriah
12-11-2011, 10:43 AM
:waitasec:

Right...but then why the need to match in CODIS?
It's already there. It's just the question of obtaining samples from a crime scene without requiring a warrant, to run against samples already in CODIS. So I guess this would be helpful in Holly's case if, for example, there was DNA- not Holly's, but familial and already in CODIS- intermingled with the crime scene- that was already not ruled out by DNA at the scene?

Idk. It's kind of confusing to me. I'll stick with K9's, lol.


I don't think familial DNA has anything to do with a family member unless the family member already has a their DNA profile in the database for a crime already committed.

More on Familial DNA

http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/03/30/us-crime-dna-familial-idUSTRE72T2QS20110330

http://news.sciencemag.org/scienceinsider/2010/07/scientists-explain-how-familial.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DNA_profiling#Familial_DNA_searching

Carla Lashelle
12-11-2011, 01:36 PM
I was wondering the same thing. Since Holly was abducted from her home, and her body has not been found, how would the family's DNA have any impact on the case? Their DNA is going to be all over the place anyway.

It would be the suspect's family. Perhaps if Jim Bob was the suspect but NOT in the data base, he could be identified or narrowed down because of similar, familiar matches to his Brother Joe Bob, etc.

shefner
12-11-2011, 02:45 PM
I really don't see how investigators do their jobs year after year. I get so frustrated and easily discouraged.

I have followed Holly's case since the day she was abducted...and read those headlines: "Home Invasion, Young Woman Abducted"
I stated earlier (was that 20 threads ago, or 21?) that I rarely read the term "home invasion" in the press. That is why this case really stood out to me in the beginning. I was following the Petit family ordeal at the time and that is what I was thinking in those early days.

We have no firm information about what was found in Holly's case, no release of the 911 calls, and the few facts we know have been twisted and turned every way possible, as we try to figure out what actually happened to Holly that fateful day.

I feel like I am riding a merry-go-round. I get sick to my stomach and dizzy, demanding to get off the ride now and then. During those days, I take a complete break from Websleuths. I let my mind (and heart) rest. But somehow, the merry-go-round looks appealing once again. I hear the music from the distance....and decide to jump back on. Sometimes I select to ride the painted horse, other times the bejeweled elephant....round and round and up and down we go. When I get tired of the up and down, I climb down and sit in one of those benches that seems safe and stable...gazing out into the crowd of bystanders, we are still going around....and still going nowhere.

Holly, its been almost 8 months. We have not forgotten you. We are looking for you.
Rest assured, you are loved.....

OldSteve
12-11-2011, 03:44 PM
Gail Palmgren been found, and now it looks like Karen Swift may have been found,
though most strange in a cemetery.... perhaps a break is next in Holly's case, though how I wish she could be found alive.

Regarding Karen (hate to say this but if it's not Karen, could it be Holly?)
http://www.abc24.com/news/local/story/Body-Found-in-Dyersburg-Could-Be-of-Missing-Mother/7CIst0CCLU-8IlPkBJ_xfQ.cspx

http://www.wreg.com/news/wreg-body-found-in-dyer-county-20111210,0,2631866.story

Nehemiah
12-11-2011, 05:30 PM
Gail Palmgren been found, and now it looks like Karen Swift may have been found,
though most strange in a cemetery.... perhaps a break is next in Holly's case, though how I wish she could be found alive.

Regarding Karen (hate to say this but if it's not Karen, could it be Holly?)
http://www.abc24.com/news/local/story/Body-Found-in-Dyersburg-Could-Be-of-Missing-Mother/7CIst0CCLU-8IlPkBJ_xfQ.cspx

http://www.wreg.com/news/wreg-body-found-in-dyer-county-20111210,0,2631866.story

Off record, LE is certain it's Karen. They won't make a public announcement until the results are back from the crime lab.

I certainly wish Holly could be found soon.

nosyone
12-11-2011, 08:59 PM
There was a missing persons case in Hope Mills, NC from November that ended today after a SAR team from Tennessee was requested, came in and found the person within just a few hours. I keep thinking that if HB were in the area, the SAR teams would have located her. These people are well trained and very, very good at what they do, it just doesn't make sense to me that there hasn't been any trace of her since her personal items were found, which in my opinion were planted. I just do not believe that she is still in the area. JMO!

Patience
12-11-2011, 09:48 PM
Did KB and Cb leave school and work to search for Holly? I believe I read that they have. I wonder then where they have searched because I have not seen one article about their searches. This is hinky to me. Did I miss a full page spread on the family searching?

Mr. Noatak
12-12-2011, 02:30 AM
I agree that this law would be a useful tool for LE- but have a hard time with the invasion of privacy, showing cause, and assumption of innocence. It's a big 'ole can of worms to me. But I'll be interested to see what happens in January.

At any rate, I am curious as to why you feel it is so important in Holly's case? Familial DNA could very well have already been taken with consent from the 'owners'. But we would have no way of knowing that at this point.
Why do you think it would have such an impact on Holly's case?

My opinions only, no facts here:

Because with an exact DNA match, you are looking for one, and only one unique person. With familial DNA, you are looking for hundreds of relatives of the the suspect, who either have previously committed a felony or voluntarily submitted their DNA. Familial DNA is very broad-brush, but can go a long way towards narrowing the search to just one family line.

Plumeria5
12-12-2011, 02:39 AM
Did KB and Cb leave school and work to search for Holly? I believe I read that they have. I wonder then where they have searched because I have not seen one article about their searches. This is hinky to me. Did I miss a full page spread on the family searching?

Patience, this is one of the articles which discusses the family searching. I don't remember that any specific areas were disclosed, just neighboring towns and out of state.

http://www.wmctv.com/story/15336333/search-for-holly-bobo-now-a-full-time-job-for-her-family

cluciano63
12-12-2011, 07:44 AM
Do we have reason to be believe that LE has any DNA to compare against anyone or anything?

Carla Lashelle
12-12-2011, 10:56 AM
Did KB and Cb leave school and work to search for Holly? I believe I read that they have. I wonder then where they have searched because I have not seen one article about their searches. This is hinky to me. Did I miss a full page spread on the family searching?

Karen quit her job at school and Clint dropped out of College. Dana had been searching local woods, etc when he got off work in the evening.

Carla Lashelle
12-12-2011, 11:00 AM
Do we have reason to be believe that LE has any DNA to compare against anyone or anything?

Hard to say. We don't know what real evidence LE has or does not have. Perhaps unknown DNA was found somewhere and if the suspect was not already in the database based on prior arrests then it would be of little help right now.

Again, this reminds me (if they do have unknown DNA) of the Anne Pressly murder. The suspect's DNA was not in the system and just came back as "unknown". However, a man was questioned by cops regarding seeminly unrelated crimes and he voluntarily submitted a DNA sample. Only at that time did his DNA come back as a match not only for Anne's assault and murder but also an unsolved rape in a nearby town. In that case too it took seven months to fully process some of the DNA evidence so its not this 5 minute job like it is on TV.

OldSteve
12-12-2011, 12:15 PM
My opinions only, no facts here:

Because with an exact DNA match, you are looking for one, and only one unique person. With familial DNA, you are looking for hundreds of relatives of the the suspect, who either have previously committed a felony or voluntarily submitted their DNA. Familial DNA is very broad-brush, but can go a long way towards narrowing the search to just one family line.

Wonder how this works - does the present CODIS system only search for exact matches?
If so, wonder how much software mod'ing would be needed to expand searching to familial matches?
How far back, relative wise could this go?
Could the system handle the increased processing?

Under current law is it legal to simply have the system do familial searching?
Okay, I'm wondering too much :sleuth:

wishuwerehere
12-12-2011, 02:56 PM
Wonder how this works - does the present CODIS system only search for exact matches?
If so, wonder how much software mod'ing would be needed to expand searching to familial matches?
How far back, relative wise could this go?
Could the system handle the increased processing?

Under current law is it legal to simply have the system do familial searching?
Okay, I'm wondering too much :sleuth:

Old Steve:

Here's an interesting article on familial DNA: http://www.sciencemag.org/content/329/5989/262.full?sid=3e8b039d-f162-47ae-8e58-bedd775eb20d

Sims and Myers explained that the lab's software uses this information to generate a ranked list of the convicted felons in the DNA database who are most likely to be first-order relatives—parents, children, or full siblings—of the person a DNA sample came from. (They say the statistics aren't strong enough to identify more distant relatives, who share a quarter or less of their DNA.) When both individuals in question are male, the lab also looks at a similar number of short tandem repeats on the Y chromosome, which should be an exact match between fathers and sons and between full brothers.

BBM

Mr. Noatak
12-12-2011, 11:14 PM
Wonder how this works - does the present CODIS system only search for exact matches?
If so, wonder how much software mod'ing would be needed to expand searching to familial matches?
How far back, relative wise could this go?
Could the system handle the increased processing?

Under current law is it legal to simply have the system do familial searching?
Okay, I'm wondering too much :sleuth:

My opinions only, no facts here:

I believe only some states allow law enforcement to conduct familial DNA searches, or at least to act upon the results of such searches. Part of the problem is the difficulty in crafting a bill that is constitutional.

Oriah
12-13-2011, 09:14 AM
An interesting read re: familial DNA and criminal investigations.
http://news.sciencemag.org/scienceinsider/2010/07/scientists-explain-how-familial.html

http://www.hks.harvard.edu/var/ezp_site/storage/fckeditor/file/pdfs/centers-programs/centers/rappaport/powerpoints/lazer_dna.pdf

(ETA- oops, sorry wishuwerehere- didn't mean to repeat your post)

officer'swife 2010
12-13-2011, 01:51 PM
Ive been trying to wrap my mind around the whole disapperance of Holly Bobo, reading every article I can find been on forums.....so long and nothing really has been told to the public. Being married to a cop, I've seen him really get involved in cases esp. when it has to do with kids. Most cops have a no sense of feeling towards anybody well at least the ones I know but after working hours upon hours and putting your everything into a case I can bet he's invovled emitonally.....he would have to be right? maybe i'm wrong...

Carla Lashelle
12-13-2011, 04:15 PM
the Paragliders are back...

http://www.newschannel5.com/story/16312654/paragliders-offer-services-in-holly-bobo-search

This seems to be a different paraglider group...

TxLady2
12-13-2011, 05:08 PM
It would be the suspect's family. Perhaps if Jim Bob was the suspect but NOT in the data base, he could be identified or narrowed down because of similar, familiar matches to his Brother Joe Bob, etc.

AFAIK, there is no suspect. So what you're saying is, if they find DNA from someone other than Holly's family around the property, they can check that against DNA they have on file.
Lord help the mailman, deliverymen, repairmen... anyone that came onto the property in the recent past, if they have a relative who is in the correctional system somewhere.
I just don't see how any of this familial DNA is going to help without a body. She could have been taken to Timbuktu and is chained to a pole in someone's basement somewhere.
Unless a body turns up, I think this may be one case that is never going to be solved or at least not any time soon. They got nothing. We don't even know whose blood was found, or if it was 2 or 3 drops or a whole quart. We don't know what items were found that belonged to her other than the lunch bag. Nobody can agree on whether Clint saw them in the garage, the carport, or wherever it was. We don't know much of anything for sure. And neither does TBI, the FBI, Sheriff's Dept., the CIA, Homeland Security, Secret Service, nor any of the other Alphabet agencies, looks like.
I'm just frustrated.

cluciano63
12-13-2011, 05:12 PM
Actually, Holly's parents did say the blood belonged to Holly, on the Jane Velez Mitchell show...FWIW.

TxLady2
12-13-2011, 05:23 PM
Ive been trying to wrap my mind around the whole disapperance of Holly Bobo, reading every article I can find been on forums.....so long and nothing really has been told to the public. Being married to a cop, I've seen him really get involved in cases esp. when it has to do with kids. Most cops have a no sense of feeling towards anybody well at least the ones I know but after working hours upon hours and putting your everything into a case I can bet he's invovled emitonally.....he would have to be right? maybe i'm wrong...

I'm a little confused by the part I bolded... who is the 'he' you are referring to? Or do you mean your hubby?
My son is also in LE and they usually try not to get too emotionally involved in these cases, but sometimes they can't help it. Small town LE often know just about everybody in the area, and it makes it hard when it's someone you know and like.
Several years ago, my son helped in a case of a mother killing her children, and it about did him in, he got very, very upset. When it's a young child, it's very hard to remain detached and not get emotional. Most agencies offer counseling, too.

mountainguy777
12-13-2011, 07:05 PM
Actually, Holly's parents did say the blood belonged to Holly, on the Jane Velez Mitchell show...FWIW.



Yeah, Dana said it, then was quickly replaced on the show by the family pastor.

Carla Lashelle
12-13-2011, 08:10 PM
AFAIK, there is no suspect. So what you're saying is, if they find DNA from someone other than Holly's family around the property, they can check that against DNA they have on file.
Lord help the mailman, deliverymen, repairmen... anyone that came onto the property in the recent past, if they have a relative who is in the correctional system somewhere.
I just don't see how any of this familial DNA is going to help without a body. She could have been taken to Timbuktu and is chained to a pole in someone's basement somewhere.
Unless a body turns up, I think this may be one case that is never going to be solved or at least not any time soon. They got nothing. We don't even know whose blood was found, or if it was 2 or 3 drops or a whole quart. We don't know what items were found that belonged to her other than the lunch bag. Nobody can agree on whether Clint saw them in the garage, the carport, or wherever it was. We don't know much of anything for sure. And neither does TBI, the FBI, Sheriff's Dept., the CIA, Homeland Security, Secret Service, nor any of the other Alphabet agencies, looks like.
I'm just frustrated.

Well much of my comment is meant to be in general and not necessarily referring to Holly.

We do NOT KNOW if any other DNA was found. We know blood was found and it was Holly's, but was another unknown DNA found anywhere? That is not uncommon when suspects get scratched, cut themself, etc. Perhaps a hair was found somewhere. Thats how they convicted Anne Pressly's killer... one single hair. Yes you might find the mailman's DNA (in theory) but if you found say, his semen in the garage, that would be odd. You do not have to have a known suspect to have DNA or to try to narrow the focus down by using such DNA

officer'swife 2010
12-14-2011, 05:25 AM
Ive been trying to wrap my mind around the whole disapperance of Holly Bobo, reading every article I can find been on forums.....so long and nothing really has been told to the public. Being married to a cop, I've seen him really get involved in cases esp. when it has to do with kids. Most cops have a no sense of feeling towards anybody well at least the ones I know but after working hours upon hours and putting your everything into a case I can bet he's invovled emitonally.....he would have to be right? maybe i'm wrong...

I'm a little confused by the part I bolded... who is the 'he' you are referring to? Or do you mean your hubby?
My son is also in LE and they usually try not to get too emotionally involved in these cases, but sometimes they can't help it. Small town LE often know just about everybody in the area, and it makes it hard when it's someone you know and like.
Several years ago, my son helped in a case of a mother killing her children, and it about did him in, he got very, very upset. When it's a young child, it's very hard to remain detached and not get emotional. Most agencies offer counseling, too.



I'm sorry, I'm just now learning how to use this site...I was actually referring to the post somebody said that the Sheriff was crying on an interview, I can totally seeing the Sheriff getting emitonally attached to this case, not crying because he knows something but crying because of emitions.....

mountainguy777
12-14-2011, 11:31 AM
I was hoping we would not get to a point in this case where there was no new news, no new theories, and no new pleas. But here we are.

*crickets* *crickets*

Carla Lashelle
12-14-2011, 01:31 PM
I was hoping we would not get to a point in this case where there was no new news, no new theories, and no new pleas. But here we are.

*crickets* *crickets*

Thats just it... we have had no real info since the first couple of weeks. Everything "else" learned since then has actually just muddled the case up more. Now, eight months later everyone has pretty much worked through every scenario from the reasonable and logical to the absurd and inane. Its been beat to death... There really is not anything much more that can be said that has not been said in the last 8 months.

Oriah
12-14-2011, 02:51 PM
Website for the parasearchers:
http://www.davedubin.com/parasearchers/default.asp

mountainguy777
12-14-2011, 02:52 PM
Thats just it... we have had no real info since the first couple of weeks. Everything "else" learned since then has actually just muddled the case up more. Now, eight months later everyone has pretty much worked through every scenario from the reasonable and logical to the absurd and inane. Its been beat to death... There really is not anything much more that can be said that has not been said in the last 8 months.




I agree. I dont know of any case quite like this one. So little info. Not the panic you would think. Almost a "hurry up and wait" attutide. Frankly i cant see the point in not sharing any and all info at this point.

Plumeria5
12-14-2011, 06:08 PM
I agree. I dont know of any case quite like this one. So little info. Not the panic you would think. Almost a "hurry up and wait" attutide. Frankly i cant see the point in not sharing any and all info at this point.

I agree. Really makes no sense to me. I would guess that a very high percentage of the time it is the public that gives the tip or solves the case with information or even finding the body. In Joselys's case one of the residents had spoken to the killer and called the police about what he had said. The public can't help if they don't know what clues to look for. If not for anything else there is power in numbers. Millions in the public versus how many on the case in LE or the TBI? :banghead: Seriously...what is the point???

nosyone
12-14-2011, 09:15 PM
I agree. I dont know of any case quite like this one. So little info. Not the panic you would think. Almost a "hurry up and wait" attutide. Frankly i cant see the point in not sharing any and all info at this point.

You are so right, I don't understand anything in this case. If it were my daughter, I would be standing on the courthouse steps trying to get her case in the public eye everyday! Her parents are not acting like any normal parents of a missing child that I've ever seen and Law Enforcement isn't acting like any agencies that I've ever heard of. Why the silence? I can't imagine any reason not to release the 911 tapes! It has been 8 months and anything said on those tapes is old news, how can it effect the investigation now? Is withholding them helping the investigation, if so, how? I have followed this case from Day 1 and I don't know anymore today than I did on April 13th. Very frustrating!
:banghead:

wfgodot
12-14-2011, 09:22 PM
With such a dearth of information given to the public, we're far enough along in this case to entertain "law enforcement protecting someone, or protecting its own" scenarios.

And Mrs. B. did ask for more help, once - she asked for President Obama, which was basically, I think, a plea for federal intervention in this case. The family seems almost afraid to speak out further.

The silence is deafening.

nosyone
12-14-2011, 09:48 PM
With such a dearth of information given to the public, we're far enough along in this case to entertain "law enforcement protecting someone, or protecting its own" scenarios.

And Mrs. B. did ask for more help, once - she asked for President Obama, which was basically, I think, a plea for federal intervention in this case. The family seems almost afraid to speak out further.

The silence is deafening.

I cannot help but think that KB's plea for help from President Obama was to scare someone into thinking that the big guns were coming. I read in the news release yesterday about the Paragliders that Karen asked them to search an area that had not been searched. Now I ask you, why would KB be asking them to search that area and not LE? Do you think that she suspects her body is up there? I KNOW something is wrong, wrong, wrong with this whole scenario from day 1!

wfgodot
12-14-2011, 09:55 PM
I cannot help but think that KB's plea for help from President Obama was to scare someone into thinking that the big guns were coming. I read in the news release yesterday about the Paragliders that Karen asked them to search an area that had not been searched. Now I ask you, why would KB be asking them to search that area and not LE? Do you think that she suspects her body is up there? I KNOW something is wrong, wrong, wrong with this whole scenario from day 1!
Me too on the "hinky since day one" thing. The current TBI director was spokesperson back in the bad old days maybe ten years ago when TBI was under attack for being inept (had a large amount of cocaine stolen from their new "tamper free" evidence vault, for one thing, if memory serves), so it didn't sound like they'd cleaned much house between now and then; plus, the lead agent working this case did not impress me a bit. I am not nor have I ever been with those who think that "LE has much more info than we know about, but they're just keeping quiet till the right time." Usually, what it means is, I think, that they don't know much more than the general public, or else they would use what they know to gain more information from the general public.

cluciano63
12-15-2011, 03:54 AM
I do agree that LE is way behind in this case, probably too much so to ever catch up and I don't believe for a second that they know lots of things we don't know. Too much time has passed with no action for that to be true. I think Holly was taken away from the immediate area even before LE arrived on the scene, and that the location of items that may have been found have little value at this point. What does it matter now where a lunch bag was found, if Holly is still missing and no other clues were gleaned from it? Especially with the passage of time and the weakened memories of anyone who may have had something to contribute at one point, but with LE saying so very little and only coming out with feeble requests for the public to keep their eyes open from time to time, I think they've pretty much lost any good info from the day in question, if it was ever available. Holly may be only 10 or 20 miles away from home, who knows, but that is still too far unless someone happens upon her by accident. But she could be anywhere...

~n/t~
12-15-2011, 05:47 AM
What area are the paragliders searching and why do you all think KB decided to use paragliders again rather than the usual ground searches?

From what I understand, this is another team? Is that right? Did the first ones find anything?

~n/t~
12-15-2011, 05:58 AM
After 8 months, if Holly is dead, all that would be found would be her skeletal remains. Paragliders makes no sense to me.

TxLady2
12-15-2011, 09:21 AM
Well much of my comment is meant to be in general and not necessarily referring to Holly.

We do NOT KNOW if any other DNA was found. We know blood was found and it was Holly's, but was another unknown DNA found anywhere? That is not uncommon when suspects get scratched, cut themself, etc. Perhaps a hair was found somewhere. Thats how they convicted Anne Pressly's killer... one single hair. Yes you might find the mailman's DNA (in theory) but if you found say, his semen in the garage, that would be odd. You do not have to have a known suspect to have DNA or to try to narrow the focus down by using such DNA

Ok, got it.
But I don't think they would have found semen in the garage, if this all took place within a few minutes. Just guessing, but I figure he didn't rape her and THEN lead her off into the woods.

Carla Lashelle
12-15-2011, 09:21 AM
After 8 months, if Holly is dead, all that would be found would be her skeletal remains. Paragliders makes no sense to me.

No exact area was given but it has been said there is a lot of private property where ground searchers have not been alowed to go onto.

Clothing and bones could be spotted in a field that has died back with the onset of winter.

TxLady2
12-15-2011, 09:29 AM
[quote=TxLady2;7435497]



I'm sorry, I'm just now learning how to use this site...I was actually referring to the post somebody said that the Sheriff was crying on an interview, I can totally seeing the Sheriff getting emitonally attached to this case, not crying because he knows something but crying because of emitions.....

No problem... I just wasn't clear on who you meant.
I could never be in LE, just from seeing things they have to see. I have seen them get emotional in a press conference, though, and sometimes break down, especially if it's a little child. A lot of these cops have kids, too, and it gets personal for them, I imagine.
The job is rewarding in some ways, though, as your hubby will probably tell you. When they catch the bad guys and get to help put a murderer away, it makes them proud of the job they do. Give your hubby a pat on the back from me!!

TxLady2
12-15-2011, 09:39 AM
After 8 months, if Holly is dead, all that would be found would be her skeletal remains. Paragliders makes no sense to me.

Me, either, but I guess it does to them. Maybe they hope they can spot some clothing articles from above the ground. Something out of place that wouldn't normally be there.

As to somebody's comment about being at the courthouse every day demanding answers, IMO, what good would that do? Either LE is doing their jobs or they're not. At this point, it's going to take some luck to find her body, just some hunter stumbling across it, or some guy out checking his property. Whoever took her is probably miles away somewhere, OR he's sitting comfortably in his easy chair knowing they haven't connected the dots yet.

~n/t~
12-15-2011, 09:43 AM
No exact area was given but it has been said there is a lot of private property where ground searchers have not been alowed to go onto.

Clothing and bones could be spotted in a field that has died back with the onset of winter.

I don't get that. Who's private property and why would they refuse LE to go on to the property to look for a missing person? I thought Darden was a tight knit community (per the Sheriff). Why in the world would anyone not allow the searches? And if that's the case, LE should do whatever necessary to get a search warrant.

It sounds like the Bobos want a particular area searched so they have suspicion as to why that area.

~n/t~
12-15-2011, 09:44 AM
Me, either, but I guess it does to them. Maybe they hope they can spot some clothing articles from above the ground. Something out of place that wouldn't normally be there.

As to somebody's comment about being at the courthouse every day demanding answers, IMO, what good would that do? Either LE is doing their jobs or they're not. At this point, it's going to take some luck to find her body, just some hunter stumbling across it, or some guy out checking his property. Whoever took her is probably miles away somewhere, OR he's sitting comfortably in his easy chair knowing they haven't connected the dots yet.


IMO, ground searches would be more effective than someone gliding in the sky hundreds of feet up.

Oriah
12-15-2011, 11:39 AM
IMO, ground searches would be more effective than someone gliding in the sky hundreds of feet up.

I agree that ground searches would be more effective- but they are very challenging when it comes to grids that are so dense. Sometimes air searches can provide a tighter grid, and a possible search area can be narrowed down for future ground search efforts.

I think maybe the parasearch folk were just planning on being up in the air anyway, and thought to offer to keep an eye out for anything unusual?

mountainguy777
12-15-2011, 03:50 PM
Paragliders? Again.....its like doing something to say "hey, we are trying", yet not really trying to find holly. If its a tough area, how about dropping searchers via helicopter?

OldSteve
12-15-2011, 04:43 PM
I agree that ground searches would be more effective- but they are very challenging when it comes to grids that are so dense. Sometimes air searches can provide a tighter grid, and a possible search area can be narrowed down for future ground search efforts.

I think maybe the parasearch folk were just planning on being up in the air anyway, and thought to offer to keep an eye out for anything unusual?

I think use of para gliders is a good idea, especially after Karen Swift was found in kudzu vines ...

Oriah
12-15-2011, 05:13 PM
I think use of para gliders is a good idea, especially after Karen Swift was found in kudzu vines ...

Here is an article on paragliders, and why they may be useful in the search for a missing person like Holly:

http://abcnews.go.com/Travel/story?id=7492914&page=1

ThoughtFox
12-15-2011, 05:26 PM
Here is an article on paragliders, and why they may be useful in the search for a missing person like Holly:

http://abcnews.go.com/Travel/story?id=7492914&page=1

I think this is the pertinent passage from that article:

The gliders have the ability to fly at low altitudes and controlled, low speeds, which may be useful in search-and-rescue operations and some types of surveillance.

I have seen gliders here in Tennessee many times and they can go right over the trees very low, and this time of year they can see all the way to the ground. So if some clothing was dumped in the woods they could see it.

My only problem is that any clothing discarded before the leaf dump would be covered by leaves right now. A body/skeleton too, for that matter. It wouldn't take much work to hide a body from the air.

Karen Swift was found by two people in the cemetery on foot, by the way, and not from the air. It was Gail Palmgren who was found from the air but only with infrared sensors that found her rather large Jeep. I doubt that her body was visible from the air because at first they couldn't find it since she was thrown out of the Jeep.

nosyone
12-15-2011, 06:24 PM
The Bobo's have been more quiet than I would be. My statement about the courthouse steps was a southern expression, but too much time is elapsing between statements or any information from the Bobo's. The squeakiest wheel gets the most grease and if they would be on some sort of media outlet every week, I believe they would be getting more LE attention. Just my opinion.

cluciano63
12-15-2011, 07:09 PM
The Bobo's have been more quiet than I would be. My statement about the courthouse steps was a southern expression, but too much time is elapsing between statements or any information from the Bobo's. The squeakiest wheel gets the most grease and if they would be on some sort of media outlet every week, I believe they would be getting more LE attention. Just my opinion.

I agree, I can't see what harm it could do for the family to try to put pressure on LE; they have been very patient for a very long time, and in other cases, vocal families have had cases jumpstarted, etc...I think they have been far more patient than most would be in the same circumstances. TBI might not like it, but so what?

Carla Lashelle
12-15-2011, 07:42 PM
Ok, got it.
But I don't think they would have found semen in the garage, if this all took place within a few minutes. Just guessing, but I figure he didn't rape her and THEN lead her off into the woods.

The thing is this did not take just a few minutes... Holly and the suspect may have been wandering around the garage and back yard for 15-20 minutes. My example with semen in the garage is just an example. I was trying to explain (to you) how this MIGHT be useful in this case or in similar circumstances. Again, perhaps other physical evidence has been found and not disclosed to the public?

I really am not sure what the suspect and Holly did the whole time they were walking around chatting, "looking at a turkey" etc.

Carla Lashelle
12-15-2011, 07:43 PM
I think this is the pertinent passage from that article:

The gliders have the ability to fly at low altitudes and controlled, low speeds, which may be useful in search-and-rescue operations and some types of surveillance.

I have seen gliders here in Tennessee many times and they can go right over the trees very low, and this time of year they can see all the way to the ground. So if some clothing was dumped in the woods they could see it.

My only problem is that any clothing discarded before the leaf dump would be covered by leaves right now. A body/skeleton too, for that matter. It wouldn't take much work to hide a body from the air.

Karen Swift was found by two people in the cemetery on foot, by the way, and not from the air. It was Gail Palmgren who was found from the air but only with infrared sensors that found her rather large Jeep. I doubt that her body was visible from the air because at first they couldn't find it since she was thrown out of the Jeep.

According the the news I saw yesterday Karen Swift was found based on a called in tip and she was not just accidentally found by passers by

Carla Lashelle
12-15-2011, 07:45 PM
I don't get that. Who's private property and why would they refuse LE to go on to the property to look for a missing person? I thought Darden was a tight knit community (per the Sheriff). Why in the world would anyone not allow the searches? And if that's the case, LE should do whatever necessary to get a search warrant.

It sounds like the Bobos want a particular area searched so they have suspicion as to why that area.

I personally would not let anyone on any property I own, and I do not do anything illegal. Its just my right. There are probably a good many other people around who, for whatever reason do not want Cletus and Willie, the Feds or Barney Fife poking around their property either. I would not.

cluciano63
12-15-2011, 08:22 PM
According the the news I saw yesterday Karen Swift was found based on a called in tip and she was not just accidentally found by passers by

I think that has been corrected...she was found by the pastor and another man who were going to look at a grave, or something like that...he was interviewed in an article, it is on her thread someplace yesterday or today...they found her by chance.

~n/t~
12-15-2011, 08:35 PM
I personally would not let anyone on any property I own, and I do not do anything illegal. Its just my right. There are probably a good many other people around who, for whatever reason do not want Cletus and Willie, the Feds or Barney Fife poking around their property either. I would not.

I can't think of any reason why anyone would not but I respect your right not to. You don't have to answer if you don't want to but I'm just curious as to why you wouldn't.

I would if it was a missing person and I had nothing to hide. I guess the only reason I wouldn't is if I didn't trust LE and thought they may plant evidence in a desperate attempt to solve a crime and arrest me or a family member for a crime I didn't commit.

cluciano63
12-15-2011, 08:36 PM
I wouldn't have any problem letting LE onto my property, or even into my house, if someone was missing. Maybe I would want to be there and watch them search, or have someone I trust with them, but I certainly would never refuse access. JMO

JustALaxBro
12-16-2011, 01:44 AM
I think using paragliders would be a great way to see if someone has a hidden shed or building deep on their property.

JeannieC
12-16-2011, 01:59 AM
With such a dearth of information given to the public, we're far enough along in this case to entertain "law enforcement protecting someone, or protecting its own" scenarios.

And Mrs. B. did ask for more help, once - she asked for President Obama, which was basically, I think, a plea for federal intervention in this case. The family seems almost afraid to speak out further.

The silence is deafening.

Mrs B calls LE everday and they tell her the same thing. No new news. This was in an interview previously posted on WS.

Plumeria5
12-16-2011, 02:46 AM
i personally would not let anyone on any property i own, and i do not do anything illegal. Its just my right. There are probably a good many other people around who, for whatever reason do not want cletus and willie, the feds or barney fife poking around their property either. I would not.

20169

Oh come on, Carla! Barney would be a big help!! :) He was a classic! I wonder if any police departments give out Barney Fife awards?

Through another forum (a medical one) I talked to someone that lives in the area.
I asked them what they knew about the Holly Bobo case but am still waiting
for a reply. I will let you know what I hear if they respond.

JustALaxBro
12-16-2011, 03:28 AM
I was rereading through a lot of the old posts and saw that discussion of a significant item being found, and that it may be a phone (another poster later mentioning an iphone?).This is just my opinion, but If this is the case why not look at the application location data stored on the phone along with the carrier IQ? The carrier IQ (from my understanding) stores a lot of information and records location when you do things on your phone. Both App Location Data and Carrier IQ are both easily accessible. I bring this up because Carrier IQ is a recently discovered thing (last couple of months) and may be something that LE/investigators haven't looked at yet.

Carla Lashelle
12-16-2011, 08:37 AM
I think that has been corrected...she was found by the pastor and another man who were going to look at a grave, or something like that...he was interviewed in an article, it is on her thread someplace yesterday or today...they found her by chance.

eh ok thanks I had seen the sheriff (?) on tv giving an interview saying how they were found and how according to him it was based on a tip and not random. So IDK there.

Carla Lashelle
12-16-2011, 08:41 AM
I can't think of any reason why anyone would not but I respect your right not to. You don't have to answer if you don't want to but I'm just curious as to why you wouldn't.

I would if it was a missing person and I had nothing to hide. I guess the only reason I wouldn't is if I didn't trust LE and thought they may plant evidence in a desperate attempt to solve a crime and arrest me or a family member for a crime I didn't commit.

Having said that... I would search myself. I would want to make sure no one was doing anything on my property without my knowledge. I have no prob with helping in that regard.

But as to just letting anyone else do it, I have had direct experiences with police etc where they have lied, set me up, etc. I have a friend who was framed and railroaded as being a child molester (he was fully acquitted in court). Basically cops jumped the gun, made up this big story and stuck it on him to have a suspect and to make themselves look good. They are always looking for someone to take the fall and to cover up for either their ineptness or their own involvment in crimes

Carla Lashelle
12-16-2011, 08:42 AM
Ok the serial killer theory makes it to mainstream media.

http://www.wlwt.com/r/30007285/detail.html

Interesting idea but myself I do not see many similarities here except that the missing people are women. Most of these cases do have some sort of person of interest or suspect or at least suspicious person. Ex husband, shady friends, etc.

TxLady2
12-16-2011, 08:50 AM
The Bobo's have been more quiet than I would be. My statement about the courthouse steps was a southern expression, but too much time is elapsing between statements or any information from the Bobo's. The squeakiest wheel gets the most grease and if they would be on some sort of media outlet every week, I believe they would be getting more LE attention. Just my opinion.

Oh, I agree completely, they should be begging for help but how do we know they're not? They could be in touch with the investigators every day, we just don't hear about it.
I just meant that parking oneself on the courthouse steps and demanding answers is not a great way to deal with LE, it tends to make them upset. The best way to handle it is to cooperate, keep the lines of communication open and let LE handle the investigation.

TxLady2
12-16-2011, 09:07 AM
The thing is this did not take just a few minutes... Holly and the suspect may have been wandering around the garage and back yard for 15-20 minutes. My example with semen in the garage is just an example. I was trying to explain (to you) how this MIGHT be useful in this case or in similar circumstances. Again, perhaps other physical evidence has been found and not disclosed to the public?

I really am not sure what the suspect and Holly did the whole time they were walking around chatting, "looking at a turkey" etc.

I realize what you are saying. I think the problem is, you were generalizing and I was speaking about this specific case. What might be useful in another case may not have any impact on this one, IMO.

TxLady2
12-16-2011, 09:12 AM
I think that has been corrected...she was found by the pastor and another man who were going to look at a grave, or something like that...he was interviewed in an article, it is on her thread someplace yesterday or today...they found her by chance.

Actually, it's probably both. I would assume that the two men saw what looked like a body and then called it in. LE would consider that a tip, assuming that the men didn't try to ID the body.

~n/t~
12-16-2011, 09:22 AM
Ok the serial killer theory makes it to mainstream media.

http://www.wlwt.com/r/30007285/detail.html

Interesting idea but myself I do not see many similarities here except that the missing people are women. Most of these cases do have some sort of person of interest or suspect or at least suspicious person. Ex husband, shady friends, etc.

Neither do I and I agree with Paige's mom:

Johnson's mother is skeptical, however.
"This serial killer stuff, it's a bunch of bull," Donna Johnson said. "It's not true. It's not true in Paige's case."

~n/t~
12-16-2011, 09:23 AM
Having said that... I would search myself. I would want to make sure no one was doing anything on my property without my knowledge. I have no prob with helping in that regard.

But as to just letting anyone else do it, I have had direct experiences with police etc where they have lied, set me up, etc. I have a friend who was framed and railroaded as being a child molester (he was fully acquitted in court). Basically cops jumped the gun, made up this big story and stuck it on him to have a suspect and to make themselves look good. They are always looking for someone to take the fall and to cover up for either their ineptness or their own involvment in crimes

I hear you.

TxLady2
12-16-2011, 09:30 AM
Having said that... I would search myself. I would want to make sure no one was doing anything on my property without my knowledge. I have no prob with helping in that regard.

But as to just letting anyone else do it, I have had direct experiences with police etc where they have lied, set me up, etc. I have a friend who was framed and railroaded as being a child molester (he was fully acquitted in court). Basically cops jumped the gun, made up this big story and stuck it on him to have a suspect and to make themselves look good. They are always looking for someone to take the fall and to cover up for either their ineptness or their own involvment in crimes

That does happen, but it isn't the norm in most cases. And I disagree with your "always looking for someone to take the fall." SOME cops are corrupt, true, and they like to solve cases, but they are not ALL out to pin it on just anybody and they are not ALL inept.
Our justice system is not perfect by any means but the blame can often be equally attributed to corrupt lawyers, DA's, even judges, and everybody in between. It's not always the cops' fault, sometimes the corruption goes clear to the top of the chain.

Oriah
12-16-2011, 09:47 AM
That does happen, but it isn't the norm in most cases. And I disagree with your "always looking for someone to take the fall." SOME cops are corrupt, true, and they like to solve cases, but they are not ALL out to pin it on just anybody and they are not ALL inept.
Our justice system is not perfect by any means but the blame can often be equally attributed to corrupt lawyers, DA's, even judges, and everybody in between. It's not always the cops' fault, sometimes the corruption goes clear to the top of the chain.

I agree.

Sometimes it seems like when one is good, honest, ethical, responsible in any chosen profession in this world these days- they can't 'win' public support no matter what. A cop, a judge, a victim, a jury. Everyone gets called into question. Then the lack of public support hinders investigations even more than already hindered, by nature of the fact that LE is not psychic... and walks into cases blind- just like we all do.
So why is that the mentality of so many?

Where is the evidence that LE has been anything other than honorable and diligent in Holly's case?

Carla Lashelle
12-16-2011, 10:44 AM
Where is the evidence that LE has been anything other than honorable and diligent in Holly's case?

well the parents said that the cops seemed to waste time and do nothing just sitting around in their front yard for hours before even starting to search the woods. Thats pretty less than diligent IMHO

shefner
12-16-2011, 11:05 AM
Why do I feel in my heart that the person/s who did this are known....perhaps by LE, or even the Bobo family?

OldSteve
12-16-2011, 11:57 AM
I can't think of any reason why anyone would not but I respect your right not to. You don't have to answer if you don't want to but I'm just curious as to why you wouldn't.

I would if it was a missing person and I had nothing to hide. I guess the only reason I wouldn't is if I didn't trust LE and thought they may plant evidence in a desperate attempt to solve a crime and arrest me or a family member for a crime I didn't commit.

OT: but what if someone unknown to you dropped or left something illegal on your property - then the burden of explaining is upon you -
(not arguing, just saying)

~n/t~
12-16-2011, 12:05 PM
Why do I feel in my heart that the person/s who did this are known....perhaps by LE, or even the Bobo family?

You're not alone.

~n/t~
12-16-2011, 12:09 PM
OT: but what if someone unknown to you dropped or left something illegal on your property - then the burden of explaining is upon you -
(not arguing, just saying)

I would have to be absolutely certain that I wasn't the focus of their investigation nor any of my family members and the only reason they wanted to search my property would be to help find the missing person. We've seen many cases where LE have gone door to door and some even allowed LE inside their homes and to search their land (without search warrants). I see nothing wrong with it as long as there is a mutual trust as I've explained earlier.

Oriah
12-16-2011, 12:30 PM
well the parents said that the cops seemed to waste time and do nothing just sitting around in their front yard for hours before even starting to search the woods. Thats pretty less than diligent IMHO

I thought LE searched the immediate area within 20 minutes of arrival, and then wanted the community to stay back because the scene was uncontrolled- and also while they waited for a dog team to arrive and while they processed the scene fully? Am I misunderstanding initial reports completely?

What source is the 'sitting in their front yard for hours' from? TIA.

Carla Lashelle
12-16-2011, 01:32 PM
I thought LE searched the immediate area within 20 minutes of arrival, and then wanted the community to stay back because the scene was uncontrolled- and also while they waited for a dog team to arrive and while they processed the scene fully? Am I misunderstanding initial reports completely?

What source is the 'sitting in their front yard for hours' from? TIA.

Dana or Karen said it. Again its been discussed here and there were some news articles where LE rebutted the Bobo's statements.

There is apparently some controversy over what happened or didn't happen that morning and how quickly it happened or didn't happen.

Carla Lashelle
12-16-2011, 01:46 PM
I thought LE searched the immediate area within 20 minutes of arrival, and then wanted the community to stay back because the scene was uncontrolled- and also while they waited for a dog team to arrive and while they processed the scene fully? Am I misunderstanding initial reports completely?

What source is the 'sitting in their front yard for hours' from? TIA.

Ok here is again...

But Holly’s father said no one was allowed into the woods to search until the canine units and helicopter had arrived.

“It just seemed like everybody sat in the yard and in the driveway. And they didn't set out to put road blocks at a distance, to stop people driving. And just everybody stayed here,” said Dana Bobo, Holly’s father.

The family gets frustrated sometimes, thinking of what could have been done to find Holly within those first crucial hours.


http://www.wreg.com/news/wreg-holly-bobos-family-recounts-the-day-she-vanished-20110722,0,6800717.story

Oriah
12-16-2011, 02:18 PM
Ok here is again...

But Holly’s father said no one was allowed into the woods to search until the canine units and helicopter had arrived.

“It just seemed like everybody sat in the yard and in the driveway. And they didn't set out to put road blocks at a distance, to stop people driving. And just everybody stayed here,” said Dana Bobo, Holly’s father.

The family gets frustrated sometimes, thinking of what could have been done to find Holly within those first crucial hours.


http://www.wreg.com/news/wreg-holly-bobos-family-recounts-the-day-she-vanished-20110722,0,6800717.story

I see.
But that sounds like LE was trying to control the scene- which is quite common, and not necessarily a bad idea? But probably very frustrating for the family.

I don't know that it means that LE was necessarily negligent?

cluciano63
12-16-2011, 02:19 PM
With the kind of delay that Holly's parent indicate in the above statement, Holly was already up or more than an hour away, or could have been...and not setting up roadblocks was, IMO, a major fail...of course it is all hindsight, but by the time LE all got there, it must have been pretty clear that Holly was not going to reappear from the woods on her own and was unlikely to still be a few steps into the woods...stopping traffic on the various roads in the area would have been a good start...

OldSteve
12-16-2011, 02:26 PM
Yes - the roadblocks would have been a good idea - even if search is not thorough, using a car or spotter to see who tries to avoid the block would be helpful.
But a quick decision would have to have been made about allocating resources to the blocks versus showing up at the home...

shefner
12-16-2011, 03:07 PM
I understand that at the moment of an abduction, family members go into shock and disbelief. None of us knows how we would respond.

However, knowing my husband, hell and all its demons wouldn't stop him from going into the woods if one of our children was taken....

~n/t~
12-16-2011, 03:23 PM
Ok here is again...

But Holly’s father said no one was allowed into the woods to search until the canine units and helicopter had arrived.

“It just seemed like everybody sat in the yard and in the driveway. And they didn't set out to put road blocks at a distance, to stop people driving. And just everybody stayed here,” said Dana Bobo, Holly’s father.

The family gets frustrated sometimes, thinking of what could have been done to find Holly within those first crucial hours.


http://www.wreg.com/news/wreg-holly-bobos-family-recounts-the-day-she-vanished-20110722,0,6800717.story


Well, doesn't this totally contradict the other article <Jackson Sun> where Clint Bobo said the cops allowed everyone to go into the woods and he was the one who had to stop them because he was concerned about possible evidence contamination? I'll have to locate the article if it's still available, of course. :sigh:

cluciano63
12-16-2011, 03:26 PM
http://www.wmctv.com/story/16326970/men-who-found-karen-swifts-body-recount-story

Here is story from the men who found Karen Swift's body...they were inspecting the cemetery due to some overturned headstones...and saw an arm protruding from behind some wilting vegetation...if LE calls that a "tip" they are being a bit coy, IMO...just hoping that if Holly is out there to be found, it may happen in a similar way, and soon.

~n/t~
12-16-2011, 03:30 PM
It looks like you have to purchase the article? :waitasec:

Holly Bobo's family questions early handling of investigation

http://pqasb.pqarchiver.com/jacksonsun/access/2484768651.html?FMT=ABS&FMTS=ABS:FT&date=Oct+13%2C+2011&author=Jordan+Buie&pub=The+Jackson+Sun&edition=&startpage=A.1&desc=Holly+Bobo%27s+family+questions+early+handlin g+of+investigation

wishuwerehere
12-16-2011, 03:31 PM
Did LE even know what they were dealing with when they arrived on the scene?

Why did Holly’s mom believe Holly was abducted?

The neighbor heard a scream. Okay. IMO this is the biggest clue that something was wrong.

But Karen Bobo didn’t actually know the perp was with Holly until she spoke to Clint. So did Karen Bobo call 911 before or after she spoke to Clint?

According to Clint, he did not know Holly was abducted until after the fact and he witnessed the latter part of the crime.

Those 911 tapes hold clues. (I also believe the “flurry of calls” mean more than what we are being told, but that’s another discussion.)

I’m beginning to believe those initial reports about Holly being “dragged” are accurate. It just makes sense when you apply it to Karen Bobo’s reaction.

jmo

cluciano63
12-16-2011, 03:40 PM
I went back to thread #30 and that article link was posted by several people on or about 10/13 but all of the links are now broken...not found. There are bits and pieces of quotes from the article in the first part of Thread #30, which starts on that date, 10/13, for anyone interested.

~n/t~
12-16-2011, 03:43 PM
"As I was writing my statement, I guess I kind of had a feeling that we might not get Holly back right away," Clint said. "So I was trying to preserve the crime scene and keep it from being disrupted because I knew the only thing we might have would be footprints, and I knew if someone stepped on them, then that's ruined.
"After I had stopped Mom and a few people and said, 'Don't walk up the trail and in the woods,' people started walking up there, so I just sat down in the car and continued writing my statement out," he said. "I wasn't going to be able to stop everyone who was coming up here from walking where they had been."


Thread #30

cluciano63
12-16-2011, 03:52 PM
"As I was writing my statement, I guess I kind of had a feeling that we might not get Holly back right away," Clint said. "So I was trying to preserve the crime scene and keep it from being disrupted because I knew the only thing we might have would be footprints, and I knew if someone stepped on them, then that's ruined.
"After I had stopped Mom and a few people and said, 'Don't walk up the trail and in the woods,' people started walking up there, so I just sat down in the car and continued writing my statement out," he said. "I wasn't going to be able to stop everyone who was coming up here from walking where they had been."


Thread #30

No offense to Clint, but unless he is training to be LE, I don't get this reaction AT ALL. I can think of a thousand things one might automatically think during such a crisis and this reaction would never have made the list...just very strange. NOT a guilty reaction, per se, but can anyone say it is not unusual to say the least?

Carla Lashelle
12-16-2011, 03:56 PM
I see.
But that sounds like LE was trying to control the scene- which is quite common, and not necessarily a bad idea? But probably very frustrating for the family.

I don't know that it means that LE was necessarily negligent?

Well they imply LE sat on their asses in the front yard instead of going into the woods after the suspect. There is a subsequent article by LE refuting the family's claims

Eileen730
12-16-2011, 06:34 PM
I dont think LE was sure they were dealing with an abduction.
The witness says she walked off into the woods. Clint said he did not say she was dragged. Now i think the 911 calls from Karen maybe said her daughter was dragged into the woods ....

I do believe it took quite a while to get to the one true story here and i really dont think LE was wrong. Holly is 20 yrs old she could have walked off on her own. Clint said she walked off with who he thought was her BF...Im sure LE had to find DREw and verify his whereabouts and that holly was not with him....
This is a very confusing case and has been since day one ....
JMO

wishuwerehere
12-16-2011, 06:49 PM
I dont think LE was sure they were dealing with an abduction.
The witness says she walked off into the woods. Clint said he did not say she was dragged. Now i think the 911 calls from Karen maybe said her daughter was dragged into the woods ....

I do believe it took quite a while to get to the one true story here and i really dont think LE was wrong. Holly is 20 yrs old she could have walked off on her own. Clint said she walked off with who he thought was her BF...Im sure LE had to find DREw and verify his whereabouts and that holly was not with him....
This is a very confusing case and has been since day one ....
JMO

BBM
Good point!

cluciano63
12-16-2011, 06:51 PM
Well, there was the blood...that should have alerted LE that something could be wrong...JMO

Eileen730
12-16-2011, 07:13 PM
Well, there was the blood...that should have alerted LE that something could be wrong...JMO

They said it was not alot....flecks of blood? droplets?
clint never mentioned a sign of them struggling...
but she must have if the neighbor heard the scream why didnt her brother he was standing right there.
He said he heard them.

Its all very confusing! JMO

cluciano63
12-16-2011, 07:19 PM
I think that any blood at all should be significant...if she just went for a walk in the woods with a man, why should there be blood, even drops or flecks of it? And with Mom by now insisting that this could not be Clint...and LE felt the call was serious enough to respond at once, then it seems like they took it seriously as a crime. I don't think LE would usually come out in force if someone called and said their sister walked into the woods with a man instead of going to school. The 911 call is probably very interesting...

Eileen730
12-16-2011, 07:27 PM
I think that any blood at all should be significant...if she just went for a walk in the woods with a man, why should there be blood, even drops or flecks of it? And with Mom by now insisting that this could not be Clint...and LE felt the call was serious enough to respond at once, then it seems like they took it seriously as a crime. I don't think LE would usually come out in force if someone called and said their sister walked into the woods with a man instead of going to school. The 911 call is probably very interesting...

I think the 911 calls are probably very interesting too!
But the call was made by her mom and not the eye witness.
what she may have said maybe does not match what Clint said.
Who added in she was in fear for her life?


Im sure the blood raised red flags

Morag
12-16-2011, 07:27 PM
Here's a really interesting article about using familial DNA to solve crimes:

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,2100112,00.html

"The Grim Sleeper" has been charged with about 10 murders in LA over a several decades period.

Plumeria5
12-16-2011, 07:56 PM
No offense to Clint, but unless he is training to be LE, I don't get this reaction AT ALL. I can think of a thousand things one might automatically think during such a crisis and this reaction would never have made the list...just very strange. NOT a guilty reaction, per se, but can anyone say it is not unusual to say the least?

Oh yeah. Strange and unusual is an understatement. Instinct is to take off running after them... not preserve footprints or a trail. That would be the last thing on most people's mind.

cluciano63
12-16-2011, 08:00 PM
I think the 911 calls are probably very interesting too!
But the call was made by her mom and not the eye witness.
what she may have said maybe does not match what Clint said.
Who added in she was in fear for her life?


Im sure the blood raised red flags


I thought Clint said he finally called 911 himself once the neighbor showed up and told him about the scream...so we have a scream and blood and still maybe LE thinks she went for a walk? And a brother worrying about preserving a crime scene? :waitasec:

wishuwerehere
12-16-2011, 08:13 PM
I think the 911 calls are probably very interesting too!
But the call was made by her mom and not the eye witness.
what she may have said maybe does not match what Clint said.
Who added in she was in fear for her life?


Im sure the blood raised red flags

BBM
This may be why there is a "conflict of interest" between LE and the Bobo’s in this case.

ETA: I believe Clint stated that he found out later Holly "was in fear for her life." Has never been explained AFAIK.

cluciano63
12-16-2011, 08:38 PM
BBM
This may be why there is a "conflict of interest" between LE and the Bobo’s in this case.

ETA: I believe Clint stated that he found out later Holly "was in fear for her life." Has never been explained AFAIK.


Does he mean "Later" as in when neighbor showed up to report the scream, vs. when he spoke to his mom on the phone? Who knows...

nosyone
12-16-2011, 08:46 PM
"As I was writing my statement, I guess I kind of had a feeling that we might not get Holly back right away," Clint said. "So I was trying to preserve the crime scene and keep it from being disrupted because I knew the only thing we might have would be footprints, and I knew if someone stepped on them, then that's ruined.
"After I had stopped Mom and a few people and said, 'Don't walk up the trail and in the woods,' people started walking up there, so I just sat down in the car and continued writing my statement out," he said. "I wasn't going to be able to stop everyone who was coming up here from walking where they had been."


Thread #30
After reading CB's quote, the first thing that came to my mind was that he knew who had her and why. You would think that her brother would be beside himself with worry and terror, not saying "he had a feeling that we might not get Holly back right away", implying, in my opinion, that he thought she would be coming back. I would think he would have said more like, "Oh God, someone has my sister, I am afraid I will never see her again". I realize that everyone is different in their reactions to crisis, but if a person witnesses a loved one being taken, and then finding out she has been kidnapped, would this be a normal reaction? I somehow don't think so.

Plumeria5
12-16-2011, 08:49 PM
Does he mean "Later" as in when neighbor showed up to report the scream, vs. when he spoke to his mom on the phone? Who knows...

When mom was calling Clint she must have been hysterical at the time. Not sure at what point she fell to the ground but Clint surely had to have known how upset his mother was during the call but he didn't try to catch up with them? They were walking not running, right?

cluciano63
12-16-2011, 08:53 PM
When mom was calling Clint she must have been hysterical at the time. Not sure at what point she fell to the ground but Clint surely had to have known how upset his mother was during the call but he didn't try to catch up with them? They were walking not running, right?

He said in one interview that even when his mom called again he still thought she was with the boyfriend...and that they had killed a turkey or something...and that he only began to panic when the neighbor came by...it does not sound like he reacted much to mom's panic at all, JMO...

Plumeria5
12-16-2011, 09:03 PM
He said in one interview that even when his mom called again he still thought she was with the boyfriend...and that they had killed a turkey or something...and that he only began to panic when the neighbor came by...it does not sound like he reacted much to mom's panic at all, JMO...

Wonder if she overreacted about something before and so he just thought it was a false alarm?

cluciano63
12-16-2011, 09:06 PM
Wonder if she overreacted about something before and so he just thought it was a false alarm?

That would be somewhat of a normal reaction, IMO, for a 25-year old man, to think his mom was getting hysterical over nothing. But the whole business of wanting to protect the scene is really odd...if he now believed Holly was in danger, due to the scream, how did he refrain from going after her? No matter what anyone said or adivsed? That, I don't understand.

Plumeria5
12-16-2011, 09:12 PM
That would be somewhat of a normal reaction, IMO, for a 25-year old man, to think his mom was getting hysterical over nothing. But the whole business of wanting to protect the scene is really odd...if he now believed Holly was in danger, due to the scream, how did he refrain from going after her? No matter what anyone said or adivsed? That, I don't understand.

Just sittin' in a car/truck filling out a statement with a gun at his side telling people not to go in those woods? :banghead:

cluciano63
12-16-2011, 09:19 PM
Just sittin' in a car/truck filling out a statement with a gun at his side telling people not to go in those woods? :banghead:

Talk about second-guessing one's self...I would imagine there is a lot of that going on...

~n/t~
12-16-2011, 09:34 PM
That would be somewhat of a normal reaction, IMO, for a 25-year old man, to think his mom was getting hysterical over nothing. But the whole business of wanting to protect the scene is really odd...if he now believed Holly was in danger, due to the scream, how did he refrain from going after her? No matter what anyone said or adivsed? That, I don't understand.

Well if we go with the latest timeline, he had approximately 5 minutes between the time the neighbour showed up, LE got there and the entire town of Darden was on their lawn.

We all thought he was awake way earlier only discover later that he woke at 7:50 and by 8:00 everyone was on the property.

If he was convinced it was Drew, he didn't believe his mom even after she told him it wasn't and that is the biggest piece of the puzzle missing besides where Holly is.

Why was he so convinced it was Drew?

shefner
12-16-2011, 11:52 PM
One of the biggest problems I have with this case is that I don't even believe the things they've told us....so how much value can I put in my guess work about the things they haven't told us?!

~n/t~
12-17-2011, 07:18 AM
One of the biggest problems I have with this case is that I don't even believe the things they've told us....so how much value can I put in my guess work about the things they haven't told us?!

And apparently we don't know all the facts (per KB) which to me implies there is more going on here than we are aware of and the family won't share the facts for whatever reason. They may have good reason not to. IDK

One thing is for sure. Clint was convinced up until the cops arrived that the guy walking with Holly was Drew. Enough so that even after loading a gun, he didn't go after the perp which imo speaks volumes.

Eileen730
12-17-2011, 08:11 AM
I thought Clint said he finally called 911 himself once the neighbor showed up and told him about the scream...so we have a scream and blood and still maybe LE thinks she went for a walk? And a brother worrying about preserving a crime scene? :waitasec:

I dont believe clint ever spoke to 911 in that jackson sun article it said the neighbor showed up and i think Clint was dialing 911 but he head them comming up the road...Very suspicious if ya ask me! All the phone calls between mom and clint and he never calls 911. Even the neighbor showed up because of the screams Clint never heard and he was there watching everything.
Something is very wrong here and its not LE...

Eileen730
12-17-2011, 08:17 AM
Well if we go with the latest timeline, he had approximately 5 minutes between the time the neighbour showed up, LE got there and the entire town of Darden was on their lawn.

We all thought he was awake way earlier only discover later that he woke at 7:50 and by 8:00 everyone was on the property.

If he was convinced it was Drew, he didn't believe his mom even after she told him it wasn't and that is the biggest piece of the puzzle missing besides where Holly is.

Why was he so convinced it was Drew?

Because maybe it was Drew! JMO


Just because Mom spoke to drew earlier it does not mean Drew could not have driven to Hollys.

We dont know what time Mom spoke to drew... From the grandmothers place its only 30 min ride to hollys could be shorter going back roads.

Thos phone calls karen had with her mom holly and drew had to be pretty early in the am

So my guess it could have been Drew S. why is it no one has heard anything about this young man?

Eileen730
12-17-2011, 08:22 AM
And apparently we don't know all the facts (per KB) which to me implies there is more going on here than we are aware of and the family won't share the facts for whatever reason. They may have good reason not to. IDK

One thing is for sure. Clint was convinced up until the cops arrived that the guy walking with Holly was Drew. Enough so that even after loading a gun, he didn't go after the perp which imo speaks volumes.

It also depends on if you believe Clints story or stories!
JMO

Id love to know if Clint and Drew passed a poly!
Even Mom and dad!

Carla Lashelle
12-17-2011, 09:17 AM
Because maybe it was Drew! JMO


Just because Mom spoke to drew earlier it does not mean Drew could not have driven to Hollys.

We dont know what time Mom spoke to drew... From the grandmothers place its only 30 min ride to hollys could be shorter going back roads.

Thos phone calls karen had with her mom holly and drew had to be pretty early in the am

So my guess it could have been Drew S. why is it no one has heard anything about this young man?



I do not know of any reason to suspect Drew. There have been no indications of any problems in his relationship with Holly and/or the Bobo family before her disappearance. There seemingly is not a rift between him and the family now. And for practical purposes and just to be logical about things, if he was known to be hunting on property some distance away, and seemingly that is borne out by the calls to police and between the families, then why all of a sudden leave that area, drive to Hollys, sneak around and assault her, lead her away, etc. And then be back where ever he was quickly enough to keep his alibi. That just doesn't make sense in any way. Especially with no motive. So even though I do not suspect him, if you look at the events of that morning it does not seem like he could have done it anyway. And again if it were Drew then why search around Holly's school, etc. It is unlikely that someone as close to her as a b/f would be stalking her since he would know her routine etc anyway.

~n/t~
12-17-2011, 10:27 AM
I do not know of any reason to suspect Drew. There have been no indications of any problems in his relationship with Holly and/or the Bobo family before her disappearance. There seemingly is not a rift between him and the family now. And for practical purposes and just to be logical about things, if he was known to be hunting on property some distance away, and seemingly that is borne out by the calls to police and between the families, then why all of a sudden leave that area, drive to Hollys, sneak around and assault her, lead her away, etc. And then be back where ever he was quickly enough to keep his alibi. That just doesn't make sense in any way. Especially with no motive. So even though I do not suspect him, if you look at the events of that morning it does not seem like he could have done it anyway. And again if it were Drew then why search around Holly's school, etc. It is unlikely that someone as close to her as a b/f would be stalking her since he would know her routine etc anyway.

One of the problems is we don't know much about the days leading up to Holly's disapperance. Yes, from the outside, it does sound like they had a great relationship but as with any young couples sometimes there are lovers quarrels and they do break up. Not saying that's the case here but from the little facts we do know about the flurry of phone calls, it does make one question why there were so many.

I have to disagree with you about BF's stalking their girlfriends. I've known a few of my gf's who had their bf's following them because they suspected them of cheating. Stupid but it happens.

So if we remove Drew from the scenario, it had to be someone who is close in age to Drew, similar features, young voice (per Clint). An ex boyfriend, perhaps? Someone she went to school with? A guy she may have met at a party or elsewhere?

Did Holly work? If so, where? I don't remember.

shefner
12-17-2011, 10:29 AM
One of the hangups that gets me is how did Karen arrive on the scene so soon? Her school is about 20-30 minutes away from her home.

Carla Lashelle
12-17-2011, 01:51 PM
The statements made by Drew's family do not indicate any issue between Holly and Drew. Clint's behavior did not indicate anything being amiss either. If anything his suspicions were calmed becuase he thought the suspect was Drew, rather than being a stranger. There is zero evidence that they were not happy in their relationship, which is interesting because in a lot of other cases all kinds of dirt comes out about the people involved. Likewise it seems Hollys family and his family still are in contact. I can't see Drew doing this and then the families still being all buddy buddy and Holly's family wasting 8 months with fliers and magnets if they knew Drew did it. It just does not make sense that way.

I don't mean ex's don't stalk ex girlfriends, or that abusive or controlling b/fs may not watch to see what their g/f is up to, but since there is no indication of any of that here, that is why I can't see Drew hanging out by the driveway leading to Holly's school. No reason to.

I asked about Holly working and never got an answer. Most kids start to work around 16 or 17 or when they are about done with High School. You would think by her age she would have had some sort of job somewhere.

Removing Drew from the equation to me makes more sense. I do not see him fitting in as a suspect given the few details we do have. And we do know already that morning he was some distance away hunting so I can't see him just instantly packing it up, driving some distance to Holly's house to be there at 7:30, wandering around the yard and garage with Holly for up to half an hour, and then just vanishing (probably to be back where he was supposed to be when the inevitable police check happened).

I really do not know why Clint thought the suspect was Drew except for perhaps the type or color of the camo clothing he wore. Clint already said he heard "stranger voices" outside. So that was obviously not Drew. He didn't say he heard Drew. His physical description does not really match Drew per se. And although the description of the suspect is vague, the full camo part could be interpreted to include a face mask or cover. Giving Clint the benefit of the doubt, I think he got up, was not expecting to see an unknown person, and assumed the suspect (which he seemingly did not pay much attention to in the garage) was Drew. I wonder more why though after the call to his mom when Clint learned it should not be Drew, he did not do more, faster?!?


One of the problems is we don't know much about the days leading up to Holly's disapperance. Yes, from the outside, it does sound like they had a great relationship but as with any young couples sometimes there are lovers quarrels and they do break up. Not saying that's the case here but from the little facts we do know about the flurry of phone calls, it does make one question why there were so many.

I have to disagree with you about BF's stalking their girlfriends. I've known a few of my gf's who had their bf's following them because they suspected them of cheating. Stupid but it happens.

So if we remove Drew from the scenario, it had to be someone who is close in age to Drew, similar features, young voice (per Clint). An ex boyfriend, perhaps? Someone she went to school with? A guy she may have met at a party or elsewhere?

Did Holly work? If so, where? I don't remember.

Carla Lashelle
12-17-2011, 01:57 PM
It also depends on if you believe Clints story or stories!
JMO

Id love to know if Clint and Drew passed a poly!
Even Mom and dad!

To be fair to Clint his story, that we have heard from his mouth directly, has not changed overall. It has been told piecemeal and bit by bit, but I have not heard him contradict himself over any major details. He has actually gone to some effort to clarify some parts of his story over what has been reported in the media by others. Unfortunately he has not (or has not been given the opportunity to) sit down and tell the whole, unedited, uninterrupted, unredacted story from start to finish, in his own words.

cluciano63
12-17-2011, 01:57 PM
Why he STILL thought this was Drew, even after Mom told him otherwise, is mystifying to me...can't remember when he heard the voices in relation to Mom's calls...but I recall him saying he only began to panic when the neighbor came and told him about the scream...so he was STILL not believing Holly was in any danger, even after hearing how hysterical his Mom was...very confusing to me.

We've never heard if Holly had any kind of job.

Carla Lashelle
12-17-2011, 02:49 PM
Why he STILL thought this was Drew, even after Mom told him otherwise, is mystifying to me...can't remember when he heard the voices in relation to Mom's calls...but I recall him saying he only began to panic when the neighbor came and told him about the scream...so he was STILL not believing Holly was in any danger, even after hearing how hysterical his Mom was...very confusing to me.

We've never heard if Holly had any kind of job.

And if that didn't get him going he did see the blood...

~n/t~
12-17-2011, 04:04 PM
I don't recall any statements made by Drew's family except for his grandma who said it was the first night they would be apart and Drew was devestated <paraphrasing>.

Were there any others? I don't recall his family or Drew ever being interviewed. I may have missed it though.

I guess it really doesn't matter because without knowing any facts I'm left with a 100 page list of questions that will never get answered anyway and 99 of those don't even involve Drew.

Plumeria5
12-17-2011, 04:18 PM
I don't have the exact quote but another thing that really puzzles me is when Clint stated his opinion that Holly wouldn't be home anytime soon or something to that effect. Why did he think that???

Eileen730
12-17-2011, 07:08 PM
I do not know of any reason to suspect Drew. There have been no indications of any problems in his relationship with Holly and/or the Bobo family before her disappearance. There seemingly is not a rift between him and the family now. And for practical purposes and just to be logical about things, if he was known to be hunting on property some distance away, and seemingly that is borne out by the calls to police and between the families, then why all of a sudden leave that area, drive to Hollys, sneak around and assault her, lead her away, etc. And then be back where ever he was quickly enough to keep his alibi. That just doesn't make sense in any way. Especially with no motive. So even though I do not suspect him, if you look at the events of that morning it does not seem like he could have done it anyway. And again if it were Drew then why search around Holly's school, etc. It is unlikely that someone as close to her as a b/f would be stalking her since he would know her routine etc anyway.

What if they had broken up?

Eileen730
12-17-2011, 07:11 PM
I don't recall any statements made by Drew's family except for his grandma who said it was the first night they would be apart and Drew was devestated <paraphrasing>.

Were there any others? I don't recall his family or Drew ever being interviewed. I may have missed it though.

I guess it really doesn't matter because without knowing any facts I'm left with a 100 page list of questions that will never get answered anyway and 99 of those don't even involve Drew.

Never said a word,,,not him or his family...
strange if ya ask me when grandmother says they were gonna get married.

This entire case is just strange!
jmo

tiredblondy
12-17-2011, 07:30 PM
Never said a word,,,not him or his family...
strange if ya ask me when grandmother says they were gonna get married.

This entire case is just strange!
jmo


Eileen thought that was worth quoting and adding Very Strange!

OldSteve
12-17-2011, 07:37 PM
Might be a good time for a mod to close this thread for the Christmas Holidays, or at least till there is some real news.
It's got to be a very sad time for the family, and unless you've experienced what it's like to have a love one missing at Christmas, you can't imagine what it's like.
We've rehashed (and I include myself in saying this) the same things over and over again.

cluciano63
12-17-2011, 08:22 PM
Might be a good time for a mod to close this thread for the Christmas Holidays, or at least till there is some real news.
It's got to be a very sad time for the family, and unless you've experienced what it's like to have a love one missing at Christmas, you can't imagine what it's like.
We've rehashed (and I include myself in saying this) the same things over and over again.

Why would they close the thread? There are some threads where people have been missing for years and years, and members still discuss ideas and go over the known facts. Holly has only been gone 8 months, which is short, sadly, in the scheme of things are far as missing people go.

nosyone
12-17-2011, 09:34 PM
Why would they close the thread? There are some threads where people have been missing for years and years, and members still discuss ideas and go over the known facts. Holly has only been gone 8 months, which is short, sadly, in the scheme of things are far as missing people go.


I really enjoy reading all of the Websleuth's members post and mull over your ideas and thoughts when I can't sleep at night. On several points, you have changed my mind completely and have me thinking in a new direction.:waitasec:

cluciano63
12-17-2011, 09:39 PM
I really enjoy reading all of the Websleuth's members post and mull over your ideas and thoughts when I can't sleep at night. On several points, you have changed my mind completely and have me thinking in a new direction.:waitasec:

Yes, me too. These cases are ongoing until (if) solved and there is no reason, IMO, to stop thinking about the victims and the cirucmstances just because of a lack of news. Someone might have a really good brainstorm one day, who knows...

Plumeria5
12-18-2011, 02:04 AM
Yes, me too. These cases are ongoing until (if) solved and there is no reason, IMO, to stop thinking about the victims and the cirucmstances just because of a lack of news. Someone might have a really good brainstorm one day, who knows...

I'm sure Holly would appreciate the fact that there are forums like Websleuths with people, albeit total strangers, that care enough to spend hours upon hours brainstorming in hopes of helping to solve her disappearance. We shouldn't give up on Holly. She is out there somewhere.

Carla Lashelle
12-18-2011, 09:11 AM
What if they had broken up?

There is no evidence of that so to believe that suddenly they broke up and the next day Drew decided to abduct and kill her just does not make logical sense.

Carla Lashelle
12-18-2011, 09:17 AM
I can't imagine a professional organization putting more brain power into the case than we have collectively using just the scant information we have had to work with. I don't think between all of us we have left much unturned.

Whatever key there is to solving what happened, i don't think we have it. I am not sure LE has it either.

TxLady2
12-18-2011, 09:29 AM
Ok here is again...

But Holly’s father said no one was allowed into the woods to search until the canine units and helicopter had arrived.

“It just seemed like everybody sat in the yard and in the driveway. And they didn't set out to put road blocks at a distance, to stop people driving. And just everybody stayed here,” said Dana Bobo, Holly’s father.

The family gets frustrated sometimes, thinking of what could have been done to find Holly within those first crucial hours.


http://www.wreg.com/news/wreg-holly-bobos-family-recounts-the-day-she-vanished-20110722,0,6800717.story

They didn't need a lot of people stomping around in the woods obliterating possible evidence or a trail that the dogs might have been able to follow.
As far as putting up road blocks, how did Dana know they didn't put up a few on the main roads? That takes extra manpower and vehicles, which may not have been readily available right then, and I'm sure most officers had been called to the scene, they can't be two places at the same time. A few officers standing around in the yard might mean they were on the phone calling in extra manpower, coordinating the search, calling the dog handlers, any number of things. Doesn't mean nothing was being done.
It's pretty common for families to complain that LE wasn't doing enough or not doing it right but they need to remember, they're not in charge of the investigation, they don't call the shots.
Besides, they were in shock and frightened that morning... how could they possibly know the details of everything LE was doing or NOT doing?

OldSteve
12-18-2011, 11:15 AM
Why would they close the thread? There are some threads where people have been missing for years and years, and members still discuss ideas and go over the known facts. Holly has only been gone 8 months, which is short, sadly, in the scheme of things are far as missing people go.

I should have clarified, so:

Just saying give this thread a rest for the holidays when it comes to questioning family member actions - respect for the family at this time of years.

Hearing mention of Clint's actions on that fateful morning seem best IMO not to bring up at this time...

Carla Lashelle
12-18-2011, 01:37 PM
They didn't need a lot of people stomping around in the woods obliterating possible evidence or a trail that the dogs might have been able to follow.
As far as putting up road blocks, how did Dana know they didn't put up a few on the main roads? That takes extra manpower and vehicles, which may not have been readily available right then, and I'm sure most officers had been called to the scene, they can't be two places at the same time. A few officers standing around in the yard might mean they were on the phone calling in extra manpower, coordinating the search, calling the dog handlers, any number of things. Doesn't mean nothing was being done.
It's pretty common for families to complain that LE wasn't doing enough or not doing it right but they need to remember, they're not in charge of the investigation, they don't call the shots.
Besides, they were in shock and frightened that morning... how could they possibly know the details of everything LE was doing or NOT doing?

No but after the fact we do know that road blocks were not set up until oddly two or three days into the search. thats just stupid IMHO. I think post people here would agree that LE perhaps could have done better.

R.U.Kidding!
12-18-2011, 04:40 PM
No but after the fact we do know that road blocks were not set up until oddly two or three days into the search. thats just stupid IMHO. I think post people here would agree that LE perhaps could have done better.

Well I for one sure would agree. Here it is 8 months out and we are no closer to finding this poor young women.
She was taken in broad daylight, at her own home, with her brother as a witness.

The police arrive within 10 minutes of her disappearance into the woods, it had rained the night before for tracking" purposes,half the town shows up within 30 minutes, she had just spoken to her mother , girlfriend, and boyfriend 5 minutes before the time she was taken going to her car.

Really!!! Most LE agencies would of thought they died and went to heaven to have all of this info at their disposal.When you look at this you must realize she just disappeared in a matter of 5 /10 minutes at most.

Clint last sees her around 8am, by 8:05 LE was on the scene. Where could she have possibly gone (without a trace) in 5 minutes.:shakehead:

shefner
12-19-2011, 10:27 AM
Well I for one sure would agree. Here it is 8 months out and we are no closer to finding this poor young women.
She was taken in broad daylight, at her own home, with her brother as a witness.

The police arrive within 10 minutes of her disappearance into the woods, it had rained the night before for tracking" purposes,half the town shows up within 30 minutes, she had just spoken to her mother , girlfriend, and boyfriend 5 minutes before the time she was taken going to her car.

Really!!! Most LE agencies would of thought they died and went to heaven to have all of this info at their disposal.When you look at this you must realize she just disappeared in a matter of 5 /10 minutes at most.

Clint last sees her around 8am, by 8:05 LE was on the scene. Where could she have possibly gone (without a trace) in 5 minutes.:shakehead:


In addition to all you have mentioned, we feel sure that the abductor was there for about 20 minutes or so. If I recall correctly, the scream was heard around 7:40, which was shortly after Holly's friend ended her phone call with Holly. We also know that the abductor was witnessed in the carport area, was heard speaking, and was seen walking away with Holly. We know that the abductor was there while Karen Bobo was still on the phone with Clint.

Now I have been following true crimes for years....read hundreds, if not thousands, of cases. I don't think I have ever read about an abduction that takes 20 minutes to carry out. Abductions are lightening fast...not casual affairs. There has to be much more to this story than we have been told....and I, for one, am ready to hear it.

Frogzilla
12-19-2011, 02:28 PM
For the sake of conversation, if we assume LE roughly did what they were suppose to do and we don't point the finger at them (can complain about lack of roadblocks all we want, but honestly was there enough LE manpower in those first 10-20 minutes to setup a solid perimeter and keep a solid LE presence at the Bobo home? Also, why did everyone that had shown up stand in the driveway and not patrol the local area?- maybe some did. Why did all these people showing up not recognize any vehicles out of the ordinary? Did that sudden influx of worried/curious people confuse the situation? Did this help the abductor blend back into the scene or to create enough traffic to skate on through? Much, much, much more to figure than just roadblocks and not sending everybody there into the woods after a dangerous and more than likely armed suspect with a victim in tow.) HB was abducted and LE can't change that, all they can do is make the best of it. If I was going to criticize LE, using what we know as fact for anything in this case, IMO it is clearly their media relations. They are abysmal to non-existent. The door was left wide open for tons of crazy to get packed in with all the rumors and odd characters surrounding this case. I am not sure that LE in this case had any idea how to handle ANY kind of media scrutiny, especially on a national level, so they just shut them out completely.
I know it has been hammered in, by all of us, but just focusing on possible mistakes LE made or CB made or anyone involved in this case is pointless at this time without looking at them as a whole. As an example, CB has certainly confused us all with his stories, but is it possible his original statements were just as confusing, if not more so, and that may have effected the way LE handled the situation early on? Maybe something much more sinister happened there than we have been lead to believe? Also, lets not lose focus on what do we know as fact, or more accurately what we think we know as fact.
Let's exclude some parts of the story we know and see how we feel about it then, trying to stay as true to the accepted timeline. Please excuse the 10,000th post about the most likely series of events, doing it to make my point. CB hears voices and sees his sister and what seems to be her boyfriend arguing in the garage and possibly looking at a turkey. CB talks to his mother at work because he hears voices and now knows HB should be leaving for school by this time. The mother hangs up, calls 911 and then this is when she possibly has a very public panic attack (if not here, then she had it right before her coworker drove her back home.) CB then observes his sister and a man in camo casually walking away towards the woods and apparently did not think much of it. CB tries to call HB and then her boyfriend phone, both ring 5 times then go to voicemail. He talks to his mother again who tells him that her boyfriend couldn't be the man at the home, to grab a gun and go look for them and to call 911. CB has said he still was not concerned at this time, but he grabs a phone and a gun and goes into the garage where he saw them "looking at a turkey." He sees X amount of blood on the garage floor where they were at. He then pokes around the area where he last saw his sister walking away but is then standing in the driveway dialing 911 as the neighbor pulls into the driveway. This all happens in a 10-15 minute span. LE shows up at the home and it apparently did not take them long to call in all the additional man power and any LE agencies they could. That is quite a response from the eye witness seeing the victim casually walk away and motherly instinct knowing that something is wrong.
CB gives them his story and then writes it down on paper in a truck, tries to preserve possible evidence, prevents others from going into the woods and makes statements like he did not think his sister would be back anytime soon.
I don't know about all of you, but that story has no continuity as a whole, much less the individual sequences. I do not say this to try and bash this family, I say it because it is what it is. It could be due to circumstances out of their control or it could be the way they are comfortable telling the story, I don't have the foggiest.
The only part that really seems credible is possibly a man in camo came to their home and abducted HB, everything else does not go together at all. It's like on the show Sesame Street, one of these things isn't like the other, one of these things just doesn't belong. Most of the narrative plays out that way. As in CB being the oblivious eye witness while the mother has motherly instinct to KNOW what is happening and all the while it is the oblivious witness who is supplying her the information. It just does not work for me. If we were to tweak the story and say CB witnessed something bad/dangerous/questionable in the garage sequence and then called his mother, who then had a very public panic attack, now that would fit together.
Bottom line is we do not know even half of this story, we probably do not even know 10%. You could take everything that seems off in this case, have X amount of people pick the one aspect that seems strange to them and I bet in the end you will have alot of even splits. Plenty of strange to go around.

Morag
12-19-2011, 03:46 PM
Some don't find it noteworthy that CB didn't run into the woods looking for his sister, instead concentrating on 'preserving the crime scene'.
But what if his sister were 10 years old? Wouldn't we all be horrified that he had allowed a child to be dragged/walked away?

Carla Lashelle
12-19-2011, 04:31 PM
What really is baffling to me is that EVERYTHING that EVERYONE has done here is not necessarily what "normal" people do in situations all the time. And its not just like one person did something out of the norm, but EVERYONE. Thats what makes this case so frustrating.

I am not blaming anyone for anything really, but its so odd that so many people did what, in most cases, are probably the exact opposite of what you or I (well at least I) would do. And its not like I am making this up... its what happened...

Clint hears strange voices outside, doesn't go to look

Clint sees unidentifable silhouettes in the garage, doesn't go in to look

Clint calls his mom to see who is in the garage

Mom instantly freaks out and begins calling 911 and speeding home. She does tell Clint to get a gun...

Clint sees his sister and the stranger walking away but seemingly is not hurried even after talking to his mom, having a gun, and finding blood

Clint goes outside but does not pursue his sister, nor does he call 911 he stops to talk to a neighbor who heard screams. Clint says he thinks his sister is not coming home soon...

Law enforcement arrives and according to some accounts cordons off the woods but does not enter

Law enforcement waits for other members of law enforcement to arrive

Some sort of search dogs may/may not have been used quickly or effectively.

Road blocks were not set up quickly or even for a day or two, and only in one direction

Family makes no immediate public statement

Law enforcement makes a few rather vague and contradictory statements that later are contradicted by Clint on a TV interview

Media make contradictory and confusing reports

Family still makes no live pleas on TV. After some time releases a hand written note of appreciation via their pastor.

After about Easter LE makes no further statements. No real useful info had been released after just the first couple of days or week into the investigation.

Several months into the case, the family appears, finally, on the Jane Velez Mitchell show, and the story told first hand contradicts the second and third hand LE and media accounts in some ways. It also confuses things.

The family makes one or two more interviews for local TV and newspaper but really ads nothing new to what has been stated.

Holly's Cousin makes the odd statement that she doesnt want to know what happened. And it was either she or Holly's mom that had said people wouldn't question the family if they really knew what happened.

LE has yet to provide any more info about anything.

Family spokesperson says he hopes for a resolution by the end of the year. (not that anyone has any idea what is happening)

cluciano63
12-19-2011, 04:46 PM
Another thing I, at least, find odd, is that the searches seem to have been halted fairly early on, considering that the one thing LE has said from the start is that they believe Holly to still be in the area. If they are still doing fullscale large searches, they must be doing those in secret too. JMO

wishuwerehere
12-19-2011, 05:25 PM
One of the issues I’m confused about is this: Did the neighbor call Karen Bobo re the scream before or after Clint called Karen Bobo re strangers in the garage?

When did Karen Bobo relay to Clint that screams were heard? If Clint was aware that screams were heard, wouldn’t he be reacting in a more urgent manner?

Can anyone shed any light on this? TIA

cluciano63
12-19-2011, 05:29 PM
One of the issues I’m confused about is this: Did the neighbor call Karen Bobo re the scream before or after Clint called Karen Bobo re strangers in the garage?

When did Karen Bobo relay to Clint that screams were heard? If Clint was aware that screams were heard, wouldn’t he be reacting in a more urgent manner?

Can anyone shed any light on this? TIA

Clint said the neighbor told him about the scream when he drove up onto the property...which would mean Mom did not tell him? Clint said that was what convinced him she was in trouble, finally..IIRC.

wishuwerehere
12-19-2011, 05:33 PM
Clint said the neighbor told him about the scream when he drove up onto the property...which would mean Mom did not tell him? Clint said that was what convinced him she was in trouble, finally..IIRC.

Are you saying that KB told Clint to grab a gun and go after them, but didn't tell him about the scream being heard? Maybe at this point KB did not know about the scream?

cluciano63
12-19-2011, 05:37 PM
Are you saying that KB told Clint to grab a gun and go after them, but didn't tell him about the scream being heard? Maybe at this point KB did not know about the scream?

I thought the reason the neighbor called mom was to report the scream...so I really don't know...if mom was in such a panic she may have neglected to tell Clint about the scream, thinking that telling him to get a gun and go would be good enough...JMO

wishuwerehere
12-19-2011, 05:42 PM
I thought the reason the neighbor called mom was to report the scream...so I really don't know...if mom was in such a panic she may have neglected to tell Clint about the scream, thinking that telling him to get a gun and go would be good enough...JMO

IDK. I can't fathom KB forgetting to mention the scream to Clint. The knowledge of the scream is what seemed to put KB in a panic. It's very confusing because of the way story has been laid out IMO.

Carla Lashelle
12-19-2011, 06:18 PM
IDK. I can't fathom KB forgetting to mention the scream to Clint. The knowledge of the scream is what seemed to put KB in a panic. It's very confusing because of the way story has been laid out IMO.

Like I said no one does/says things the way you or I or most people would do. I have not heard or read where Karen told Clint about the screams per se. I know the neighbor called Karen about them. And karen said Clint did not hear them becuase he was sleeping...

Its kind of like the story about a group of blind men describing an elephant - the one that touches the tusk says an elephant is like a spear. The one that touches the tail says the elephant is like a rope. The man that touches his leg says an elephant is like a tree... We get little bits of the story from various people that (aside from Clint) were not even there...

wishuwerehere
12-19-2011, 06:50 PM
Like I said no one does/says things the way you or I or most people would do. I have not heard or read where Karen told Clint about the screams per se. I know the neighbor called Karen about them. And karen said Clint did not hear them becuase he was sleeping...

Its kind of like the story about a group of blind men describing an elephant - the one that touches the tusk says an elephant is like a spear. The one that touches the tail says the elephant is like a rope. The man that touches his leg says an elephant is like a tree... We get little bits of the story from various people that (aside from Clint) were not even there...

I’ve never read about KB relaying the knowledge of the scream to Clint either. I want to know whether KB found out about the scream before she heard from Clint. (I don’t know if KB and Clint spoke more than once on the phone.)

Was Clint told about the screams from his mother? This info has been left out of the narrative. For my own sleuthing purposes I find it to be an important question. However, I realize it may never be answered.

jmo

R.U.Kidding!
12-19-2011, 10:49 PM
I’ve never read about KB relaying the knowledge of the scream to Clint either. I want to know whether KB found out about the scream before she heard from Clint. (I don’t know if KB and Clint spoke more than once on the phone.)

Was Clint told about the screams from his mother? This info has been left out of the narrative. For my own sleuthing purposes I find it to be an important question. However, I realize it may never be answered.

jmo

From what I have pieced together from the "ever changing" story...here it goes:

Neighbor son hears cream tells mom

Mom calls Karen at school
(now in here someplace Clint tries to get Karen) but she is in library so mom does not answer

Mom calls home and gets Clint (never mentions scream), Apparently she must ask Clint where is Holly--this is when

Clint tells mom "yea, just saw her go in woods with Drew"

Karen says "that's not Drew --Get the Gun"

Then all hell breaks lose, Neighbor pulls up, Clint with gun,Police arrive---and Oh yea, everybody (including half the town) just stands around in the driveway.

Well I think that's the way it went:waitasec:

katydid23
12-19-2011, 11:04 PM
What really is baffling to me is that EVERYTHING that EVERYONE has done here is not necessarily what "normal" people do in situations all the time. And its not just like one person did something out of the norm, but EVERYONE. Thats what makes this case so frustrating.

I am not blaming anyone for anything really, but its so odd that so many people did what, in most cases, are probably the exact opposite of what you or I (well at least I) would do. And its not like I am making this up... its what happened...

Clint hears strange voices outside, doesn't go to look

Clint sees unidentifable silhouettes in the garage, doesn't go in to look

Clint calls his mom to see who is in the garage

Mom instantly freaks out and begins calling 911 and speeding home. She does tell Clint to get a gun...

Clint sees his sister and the stranger walking away but seemingly is not hurried even after talking to his mom, having a gun, and finding blood

Clint goes outside but does not pursue his sister, nor does he call 911 he stops to talk to a neighbor who heard screams. Clint says he thinks his sister is not coming home soon...

Law enforcement arrives and according to some accounts cordons off the woods but does not enter

Law enforcement waits for other members of law enforcement to arrive

Some sort of search dogs may/may not have been used quickly or effectively.

Road blocks were not set up quickly or even for a day or two, and only in one direction

Family makes no immediate public statement

Law enforcement makes a few rather vague and contradictory statements that later are contradicted by Clint on a TV interview

Media make contradictory and confusing reports

Family still makes no live pleas on TV. After some time releases a hand written note of appreciation via their pastor.

After about Easter LE makes no further statements. No real useful info had been released after just the first couple of days or week into the investigation.

Several months into the case, the family appears, finally, on the Jane Velez Mitchell show, and the story told first hand contradicts the second and third hand LE and media accounts in some ways. It also confuses things.

The family makes one or two more interviews for local TV and newspaper but really ads nothing new to what has been stated.

Holly's Cousin makes the odd statement that she doesnt want to know what happened. And it was either she or Holly's mom that had said people wouldn't question the family if they really knew what happened.

LE has yet to provide any more info about anything.

Family spokesperson says he hopes for a resolution by the end of the year. (not that anyone has any idea what is happening)

THANK YOU. :yesss::bow::aktion::bowdown:

You said exactly what I have been trying to say but could not explain it. :tyou:

katydid23
12-19-2011, 11:08 PM
My son is 23 and my daughter 20. I cannot even imagine a scenario, in which he hears her speaking in the garage, with strange muffled voices, and his response would be to call me at work and ask ME what's up. He would have called out to the garage, or looked for himself. We too have weapons and ammo. If he was concerned about the situation then would have loaded up a weapon and called for help AS HE WENT OUTSIDE TO LOOK FOR HIS SISTER. This whole story just seems so out of whack to me.

shefner
12-20-2011, 12:11 AM
My son is 23 and my daughter 20. I cannot even imagine a scenario, in which he hears her speaking in the garage, with strange muffled voices, and his response would be to call me at work and ask ME what's up. He would have called out to the garage, or looked for himself. We too have weapons and ammo. If he was concerned about the situation then would have loaded up a weapon and called for help AS HE WENT OUTSIDE TO LOOK FOR HIS SISTER. This whole story just seems so out of whack to me.

I would consider it even MORE likely that a brother would call out into the carport if he and his sister's boyfriend were friends who had been hunting and fishing together. Think about it....why not just open the door and say, "Hey guys, whatcha doin'?"

If Clint truly thought this camo-man was Drew, then none of this makes sense....he would not be afraid to call out to Drew in the carport or even as his sister went across the yard and into the woods. If he considered the individual as a dangerous or threatening stranger, then it would stand to reason that he knew it wasn't Drew.

I don't think we will ever figure this out until more information is released. How sad.

wishuwerehere
12-20-2011, 01:32 AM
From what I have pieced together from the "ever changing" story...here it goes:

Neighbor son hears cream tells mom

Mom calls Karen at school
(now in here someplace Clint tries to get Karen) but she is in library so mom does not answer

Mom calls home and gets Clint (never mentions scream), Apparently she must ask Clint where is Holly--this is when

Clint tells mom "yea, just saw her go in woods with Drew"

Karen says "that's not Drew --Get the Gun"

Then all hell breaks lose, Neighbor pulls up, Clint with gun,Police arrive---and Oh yea, everybody (including half the town) just stands around in the driveway.

Well I think that's the way it went:waitasec:

BBM
If this is true, I find it very troubling.
However, I am having a hard time buying it. I just can't accept KB not telling Clint about screams being heard. The neighbor calling KB at school is the "alarm going off" that something is wrong at the house. For KB not to mention it to Clint does not make any sense.

This case makes me feel like I am the only crazy person in a crowded nut house.

jmo