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wfgodot
12-09-2011, 07:06 PM
Please continue discussion here on the Penn State/Sandusky/Second Mile case.

Links of interest:

Thread #1

Thread #2

Thread #3

Thread #4

Thread #5


Grand jury presentment (http://www.wgal.com/pdf/29737452/detail.html) (.pdf)

Remember to show respect for others when engaging in thread dialogue; when replying to the
posts of others - attack the content of the post if need be, but never get personal and attack the poster.

Dr.Fessel
12-09-2011, 08:40 PM
A school spokeswoman said Friday the university sent notices this week to licensees that Paterno's daughter, Mary Kay Hort, will now handle the licensing program for JVP Properties. Penn State previously assisted with licensing.

http://www.pennlive.com/midstate/index.ssf/2011/12/penn_state_cuts_licensing_ties.html

Reader
12-09-2011, 09:17 PM
http://www.pennlive.com/midstate/index.ssf/2011/12/the_second_miles_structure_man.html

STATE COLLEGE, Pa. — A second top executive at The Second Mile is leaving, as the charity founded by former Penn State assistant football coach Jerry Sandusky gets more scrutiny about how it was structured and run.

Katherine Genevose, the foundation's executive vice president and wife of recently departed CEO Jack Raykovitz, is no longer listed as a staff member on the charity's website.
-------

Michael L. Wyland, who advises nonprofits as a partner in the firm Sumption & Wyland, recently analyzed the charity in an essay that appeared online in The Nonprofit Quarterly.

Wyland said he'd never seen bylaws that identify the "founder" as a corporate officer and member of the board's executive committee. The arrangement meant that Jerry Sandusky's duties conflicted with the powers of the board's chairman.

While it's not unusual for a founder to be the public face of an organization, Wyland said that board members have a legal responsibility to the charity, not the founder. Sandusky's extensive powers in the bylaws could have hindered such oversight.

More at link...

Kimster
12-09-2011, 09:19 PM
TRICIA AND LEVI PAGE ARE ON FOX LIVE LA TONIGHT!!!!!!

Don't miss this show! Seriously!!!

:great::great::great:

9PM PACIFIC TIME!!

Here's the live link: http://media.myfoxla.com/live/2/

Pensfan
12-09-2011, 10:05 PM
Reading through the link that Reader posted above, you find that Jerry is full of more bull. In his book (you can read many pages free on Amazon), he failed to mention that The Second Mile’s bylaws identify him as a LIFETIME corporate officer and a LIFETIME member of the board's executive committee. He tried to spin his story that he started The Second Mile (as a directive from God) and then wonderful people took over its leadership.

Wyland said the tendency to blame Second Mile board members may be excessive.
"There's this temptation to say, they should have known. Well, not always," Wyland added, especially when someone involved with an organization is making extensive efforts to hide the details of their wrongdoing. He noted that Raykovitz is married to Genovese who was the executive vice president. Wyland said that's a management conflict-of-interest. He noted that Raykovitz and Genovese also had formal oversight of all contributions, solicitations and financial records

http://www.courierpostonline.com/article/20111209/SPORTS/112090317/Expert-questions-makeup-charity-Penn-State-case?odyssey=mod|newswell|text|FRONTPAGE|p

This not-for-profit has missing financial records. Why is the Pennsylvania State Police not all over this?

Reader
12-09-2011, 10:47 PM
Poll: Pa. voters approve of PSU decision to fire Paterno, Spanier

http://www.centredaily.com/2011/12/09/3014385/poll-pa-voters-approve-of-psu.html#storylink=omni_popular#wgt=pop


By a slim 52 – 43 percent majority, Pennsylvania voters support the decision to fire Penn State football coach Joe Paterno, according to a Quinnipiac University poll released today. By a much larger 74 – 13 percent margin, voters support the firing of University President Graham Spanier.

And 65 percent of respondents also said they believe football has too much influence at Penn State, while only 25 percent said it had about the right amount of influence. However, 67 percent agreed that it would be a “bad idea” for Penn State to decline a bowl bid.


More at link....

Concerned Papa
12-09-2011, 10:51 PM
Reading through the link that Reader posted above, you find that Jerry is full of more bull. In his book (you can read many pages free on Amazon), he failed to mention that The Second Mile’s bylaws identify him as a LIFETIME corporate officer and a LIFETIME member of the board's executive committee. He tried to spin his story that he started The Second Mile (as a directive from God) and then wonderful people took over its leadership.

Wyland said the tendency to blame Second Mile board members may be excessive.
"There's this temptation to say, they should have known. Well, not always," Wyland added, especially when someone involved with an organization is making extensive efforts to hide the details of their wrongdoing. He noted that Raykovitz is married to Genovese who was the executive vice president. Wyland said that's a management conflict-of-interest. He noted that Raykovitz and Genovese also had formal oversight of all contributions, solicitations and financial records

http://www.courierpostonline.com/article/20111209/SPORTS/112090317/Expert-questions-makeup-charity-Penn-State-case?odyssey=mod|newswell|text|FRONTPAGE|p

This not-for-profit has missing financial records. Why is the Pennsylvania State Police not all over this?

Pensfan, I have come to realize that about the only area our opinions differ substantially is in who likely knew about this monster. I don't, for a minute, think that everyone in Penn State University or the community knew, but I do think that the knowledge was more widespread, particularly within TSM, than you seem to believe.

I read an article a few days ago and snipped these statements out because they support what, I believe, logic dictates as to awareness of this monster's actions.

Several former Second Mile board members told The Daily that if anyone on the board knew about the 2002 incident, it would have been Poole, who also was close to the charity’s former CEO, Jack Raykovitz.

http://www.thedaily.com/page/2011/12/05/120511-news-paterno-business-1-5/

“If you think about it from a logical standpoint, how do you have this group of people that are so intertwined with each other, and then have something like this come up, and then they not talk about it?”

http://www.thedaily.com/page/2011/12/05/120511-news-paterno-business-1-5/

It seems one former board member thinks as I do as to why silence was maintained for so long:

One former board member said “To be honest, I think people were worried about what would happen to Penn State and The Second Mile if Jerry Sandusky was found out.”

http://www.thedaily.com/page/2011/12/05/120511-news-paterno-business-1-5/

Pensfan
12-10-2011, 12:46 AM
I had a career where I had to frequently and repeatedly tell family members that their loved one had an (incurable) mental illness. Although most of the family members had the capacity to understand what they were told, many could not grasp what they were told until much later.

I know one individual who forced his family to drive to Roswell, NM (3/4 of the way across the continent of North America) for every summer vacation for years, so he could receive special messages from aliens. Shockingly, his family was not ready to grasp that he had schizophrenia until one psychotic episode when he became dangerous. I feel most people who heard a pedo story about "great guy Jerry" could not grasp the thought that this nice man was a child rapist. What they experienced was different than denial. These people lacked the knowledge base on pedophiles to make the correct judgement on "great guy Jerry". They couldn't grasp that he was a pedo because they didn't know much about pedophiles except that they are "bad" men and great guy Jerry presented himself as a wonderful man.

Because the 1998 molestation was explained by a need for a shower and a hug, those who heard the story and didn't have a knowledge base of pedophilia thought it was only dumb of great guy Jerry to have showered with a kid. Raykovitz clearly had the knowledge base to know differently, but I don't think he shared his knowledge.

Concerned Papa
12-10-2011, 05:43 AM
I had a career where I had to frequently and repeatedly tell family members that their loved one had an (incurable) mental illness. Although most of the family members had the capacity to understand what they were told, many could not grasp what they were told until much later.

I know one individual who forced his family to drive to Roswell, NM (3/4 of the way across the continent of North America) for every summer vacation for years, so he could receive special messages from aliens. Shockingly, his family was not ready to grasp that he had schizophrenia until one psychotic episode when he became dangerous. I feel most people who heard a pedo story about "great guy Jerry" could not grasp the thought that this nice man was a child rapist. What they experienced was different than denial. These people lacked the knowledge base on pedophiles to make the correct judgement on "great guy Jerry". They couldn't grasp that he was a pedo because they didn't know much about pedophiles except that they are "bad" men and great guy Jerry presented himself as a wonderful man.

Because the 1998 molestation was explained by a need for a shower and a hug, those who heard the story and didn't have a knowledge base of pedophilia thought it was only dumb of great guy Jerry to have showered with a kid. Raykovitz clearly had the knowledge base to know differently, but I don't think he shared his knowledge.

We're talking about highly successful people who were intellectual scholars and captains of industry, and they couldn't grasp the concept of this monster being a child rapist due to some lack of a knowledge base on pedophilia? And that's why they didn't do anything to stop him and protect these children?

Wow. I guess someone just needs to go ahead and get that IGNORANT brush out and paint me from head to toe because I'll NEVER be able to wrap my country bumpkin mind around that theory.

I didn't know it required special training to recognize the reprehensible acts of a child rapist.

Dr.Fessel
12-10-2011, 09:31 AM
I had a career where I had to frequently and repeatedly tell family members that their loved one had an (incurable) mental illness. Although most of the family members had the capacity to understand what they were told, many could not grasp what they were told until much later.

I know one individual who forced his family to drive to Roswell, NM (3/4 of the way across the continent of North America) for every summer vacation for years, so he could receive special messages from aliens. Shockingly, his family was not ready to grasp that he had schizophrenia until one psychotic episode when he became dangerous. I feel most people who heard a pedo story about "great guy Jerry" could not grasp the thought that this nice man was a child rapist. What they experienced was different than denial. These people lacked the knowledge base on pedophiles to make the correct judgement on "great guy Jerry". They couldn't grasp that he was a pedo because they didn't know much about pedophiles except that they are "bad" men and great guy Jerry presented himself as a wonderful man.

Because the 1998 molestation was explained by a need for a shower and a hug, those who heard the story and didn't have a knowledge base of pedophilia thought it was only dumb of great guy Jerry to have showered with a kid. Raykovitz clearly had the knowledge base to know differently, but I don't think he shared his knowledge.

I don't think there lack of knowledge about anything had to do with how these men reacted when faced with McQuearys presentation of the shower rape.

There is a test that proves without a doubt to me they knew what was going on and how serious it was.

Simply ask these supposed "men" if McQueary had come to you and simply said Jerry Sandusky was in the shower with your 10 year old boy all alone and soaped up and hugging and playing would you have asked your son if Jerry had done anything to them? Would you have asked your son about the story or would you just take Jerry's word and go about your life.

They all knew it was really, really bad and that is why they claim now not to know the name of the little boy. They all heard the rape story and yet they tell a Grand Jury they never asked the name of the little boy.

Dr.Fessel
12-10-2011, 09:41 AM
I had a career where I had to frequently and repeatedly tell family members that their loved one had an (incurable) mental illness. Although most of the family members had the capacity to understand what they were told, many could not grasp what they were told until much later.

I know one individual who forced his family to drive to Roswell, NM (3/4 of the way across the continent of North America) for every summer vacation for years, so he could receive special messages from aliens. Shockingly, his family was not ready to grasp that he had schizophrenia until one psychotic episode when he became dangerous. I feel most people who heard a pedo story about "great guy Jerry" could not grasp the thought that this nice man was a child rapist. What they experienced was different than denial. These people lacked the knowledge base on pedophiles to make the correct judgement on "great guy Jerry". They couldn't grasp that he was a pedo because they didn't know much about pedophiles except that they are "bad" men and great guy Jerry presented himself as a wonderful man.

Because the 1998 molestation was explained by a need for a shower and a hug, those who heard the story and didn't have a knowledge base of pedophilia thought it was only dumb of great guy Jerry to have showered with a kid. Raykovitz clearly had the knowledge base to know differently, but I don't think he shared his knowledge.

The city, campus LE and SA investigated the 98 shower molestation case. The mother of the child sure knew it was wrong and the detectives knew it was wrong and I am sure the SA knew all about how pedophiles worked. For some reason he decided not to press charges.

It had nothing to do with family denial.

Dr.Fessel
12-10-2011, 09:53 AM
I had a career where I had to frequently and repeatedly tell family members that their loved one had an (incurable) mental illness. Although most of the family members had the capacity to understand what they were told, many could not grasp what they were told until much later.

I know one individual who forced his family to drive to Roswell, NM (3/4 of the way across the continent of North America) for every summer vacation for years, so he could receive special messages from aliens. Shockingly, his family was not ready to grasp that he had schizophrenia until one psychotic episode when he became dangerous. I feel most people who heard a pedo story about "great guy Jerry" could not grasp the thought that this nice man was a child rapist. What they experienced was different than denial. These people lacked the knowledge base on pedophiles to make the correct judgement on "great guy Jerry". They couldn't grasp that he was a pedo because they didn't know much about pedophiles except that they are "bad" men and great guy Jerry presented himself as a wonderful man.

Because the 1998 molestation was explained by a need for a shower and a hug, those who heard the story and didn't have a knowledge base of pedophilia thought it was only dumb of great guy Jerry to have showered with a kid. Raykovitz clearly had the knowledge base to know differently, but I don't think he shared his knowledge.

BBM

Before I ever heard the term pedophile I was very familiar with the terms child molesters and perverts and the knowledge of child rape and the men that do it has been around a long, long time.

1&2&3
12-10-2011, 10:12 AM
The city, campus LE and SA investigated the 98 shower molestation case. The mother of the child sure knew it was wrong and the detectives knew it was wrong and I am sure the SA knew all about how pedophiles worked. For some reason he decided not to press charges.

It had nothing to do with family denial.

Was this case the one where the child's school told the mom "to go home and think about it" in regards to nice Mr. Sandusky? If so, she met with resistance and no one wanted to take on the powerful Penn State!

From Pennsfan statement, in 1998 the explanation as the need for a shower and a hug, did not set off alarms of pedophile as it does today! Dumb, stupid, should have known better, all kinds of monikers would have been thrown out, but pedophile not at that time in history.

Yoda
12-10-2011, 10:19 AM
Thank you drf, pensfan, concernpa, for keeping us informed and updated. I haven't been to this thread in a week or so and the amount of new information and discovered possible connections is overwhelming. I guess that is to be expected. Its like an unassuming weed in your garden. You start to pull it out and only to find the roots keep going and branching off. And the more you pull, the more the other plants start to become disturbed- because their roots have become entangled with the weed. (I tend to see situations visually and this is what is pictured in my head whenever I hear about this case.). I would be interested in seeing a chart of how all the main players are connected. Would it look like a tree or massive spider web?
Again, thank you for keeping us informed.

BigCat
12-10-2011, 10:31 AM
Was this case the one where the child's school told the mom "to go home and think about it" in regards to nice Mr. Sandusky? If so, she met with resistance and no one wanted to take on the powerful Penn State!

From Pennsfan statement, in 1998 the explanation as the need for a shower and a hug, did not set off alarms of pedophile as it does today! Dumb, stupid, should have known better, all kinds of monikers would have been thrown out, but pedophile not at that time in history.

I believe you are referring to the exchange at Central Mountain High School between school officials and victim one's mother. If I remember correctly, that incident occurred in 2007.

Dr.Fessel
12-10-2011, 10:50 AM
Was this case the one where the child's school told the mom "to go home and think about it" in regards to nice Mr. Sandusky? If so, she met with resistance and no one wanted to take on the powerful Penn State!

From Pennsfan statement, in 1998 the explanation as the need for a shower and a hug, did not set off alarms of pedophile as it does today! Dumb, stupid, should have known better, all kinds of monikers would have been thrown out, but pedophile not at that time in history.


The 1998 investigation involved two detectives, the State of Penn welfare office and the SA. There was a 100 page report made up about it. This is victim 6.

They knew what a pedophile was and they knew the child said Jerry soaped him up in the shower then picked him up with his genitials touching the boys butt to rinse him off in the shower head.

They knew what Jerry was and did not press charges.

Victim 6 story starts on page 18 here.

http://www.freep.com/assets/freep/pdf/C4181508116.PDF

Oh and the best part is at the conclusion of this "investigation" Jerry was just told don't take anymore little boys in the shower.

Mamabear1963
12-10-2011, 11:08 AM
Coming in late, with a lot of emotion...what's the deal...if the victims had been girls would he be being treated differently.

This man needs help...from what I have read so does his wife...and they both need to be kept far from children and young people.


This makes me ill...so very ill

Mamabear1963
12-10-2011, 11:09 AM
Oh and did anyone see where he is out of jail again....

Dr.Fessel
12-10-2011, 11:45 AM
I believe you are referring to the exchange at Central Mountain High School between school officials and victim one's mother. If I remember correctly, that incident occurred in 2007. Yes, the investigation of that one led to the Grand Jury.

concentric
12-10-2011, 11:53 AM
By now, after all of these years of news reports, people should be sufficiently awake to realize that this, what I call "holocaust of children" isn't just confined to one case of massive numbers of victims. It is all over the country, world.

I am aware that there are investigative groups who are uncovering the perpetrators who have/are sexually exploiting children. I have to hope that, under the "radar," they are now connecting the dots with this case and others.

It is terrifying to confront the reality; however, people continuing to ignore the problem is only allowing the perps. to get away with atrocities that are so heinous that your mind cannot go there. Within the last few months, other "leaders" of very prominent organizations across the country, supposedly "mentoring and providing counseling services" to children, have been arrested for raping children.

This I know, just from researching and cross-referencing news reports.

Pensfan
12-10-2011, 12:27 PM
We're talking about highly successful people who were intellectual scholars and captains of industry, and they couldn't grasp the concept of this monster being a child rapist due to some lack of a knowledge base on pedophilia? And that's why they didn't do anything to stop him and protect these children?

Wow. I guess someone just needs to go ahead and get that IGNORANT brush out and paint me from head to toe because I'll NEVER be able to wrap my country bumpkin mind around that theory.

I didn't know it required special training to recognize the reprehensible acts of a child rapist.

From your previous quote:
Quote:
“If you think about it from a logical standpoint, how do you have this group of people that are so intertwined with each other, and then have something like this come up, and then they not talk about it?”

http://www.thedaily.com/page/2011/12...-business-1-5/


Notice that I said the 1998 incident and not the 2002 rape. I believe the people that knew of the 1998 incident (but not Raykovitz andn probably not the DA) didn't have the knowledge base to add together all of Sandusky's behaviors and realize that he was a pedo. Sandusky had the "savior of children image" which also prevented those who knew from accurately realizing that he was a child predator.

I believe very few were told about the 2002 incident too. None of these men would tell others that they knew of an old man that raped a little boy in the shower and they did nothing which protected the child rapist. None.

StellarsJay
12-10-2011, 12:36 PM
Friday Dec 16- at Harrisburg- the Curley and Shultz preliminary hearing begins. What is Penn's responsibility/strategy to defend these men? I think I read that Spanier promised to defend them just before he was fired.
Penn has just hired a a former Clinton lawyer- will this be his first job?

Concerned Papa
12-10-2011, 12:47 PM
http://i941.photobucket.com/albums/ad257/Papa813_bucket/g-tdy-111208-sandusky-530a-1-1.jpg

For his second arrest, it's nice to see they cuffed his hands behind his back like any other common criminal.

http://i941.photobucket.com/albums/ad257/Papa813_bucket/1phkOx-1.jpg

A child rapist deserves no dignity or respect.

Pensfan
12-10-2011, 01:04 PM
Friday Dec 16- at Harrisburg- the Curley and Shultz preliminary hearing begins. What is Penn's responsibility/strategy to defend these men? I think I read that Spanier promised to defend them just before he was fired.
Penn has just hired a a former Clinton lawyer- will this be his first job?
No. It will be Penn State's liability insurance carrier that has the responsibility of defending Curley and Shutlz unless the charge of perjury is not covered under their director's liability insurance because it is a criminal action. Hopefully an attorney on Websleuths will be kind enough to explain this.

Lanny Davis, Clinton's previous attorney, may have the function of "spin doctor" as well as advisor.
Lanny Davis - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Concerned Papa
12-10-2011, 01:05 PM
From your previous quote:
Quote:
“If you think about it from a logical standpoint, how do you have this group of people that are so intertwined with each other, and then have something like this come up, and then they not talk about it?”

http://www.thedaily.com/page/2011/12...-business-1-5/


Notice that I said the 1998 incident and not the 2002 rape. I believe the people that knew of the 1998 incident (but not Raykovitz andn probably not the DA) didn't have the knowledge base to add together all of Sandusky's behaviors and realize that he was a pedo. Sandusky had the "savior of children image" which also prevented those who knew from accurately realizing that he was a child predator.

I believe very few were told about the 2002 incident too. None of these men would tell others that they knew of an old man that raped a little boy in the shower and they did nothing which protected the child rapist. None.

The point being, fundamental logic dictates they DID talk about it.

Remember what one former board member of TSM said:

Some have questioned whether certain people within the charity knew before 2008, given Paterno’s close business and personal relationships — including dinners and a Bahamas vacation — with Poole and several other past and present board members.

“I honestly think there was a conversation. I can’t believe there wasn’t one,” fumed one former board member. “To be honest, I think people were worried about what would happen to Penn State and The Second Mile if Jerry Sandusky was found out.”

http://www.thedaily.com/page/2011/12/05/120511-news-paterno-business-1-5/

For that matter, consider what Barry Switzer said:

“This was a secret that was kept secret. Everyone on that had to have known, the ones that had been around a long time,”

“You think that a 13-year assistant ... hasn’t told someone else?

His wife?

His father?

People knew. The community knew,”

http://aol.sportingnews.com/ncaa-football/story/2011-11-10/barry-switzer-on-penn-state-scandal-everyone-on-that-staff-had-to-have-known#ixzz1g68IX7PK

IMO, plenty of people knew.

wfgodot
12-10-2011, 01:23 PM
Some other clients of lawyer Lanny Davis, hired to provide legal advice and counsel to PSU President Rodney Erickson:
• Now-deposed Ivory Coast "strongman" Laurent Gbagbo
• Brutal Equatorial Guinea President Teodoro Obiang Nguema Mbasogo
• The business-backed leaders of the 2009 military coup against Honduran President Manuel Zelaya
• The Pakistani military
• The fanatically right-wing Israel Project
Thanks for the promised transparency, Penn State!

http://deadspin.com/5866796/penn-state-hires-evil-dictator+loving-monster-lawyer?tag=pennstatescandal

Concerned Papa
12-10-2011, 01:32 PM
I wonder if the ones who lacked the knowledge base to add together all of Sandusky's behaviors would have been aided by buying JoePa's video?

Jerry Sandusky's Method - YouTube

I played organized football from the time I was 8 years old through an injury during my junior year of college. Oddly enough, I was a middle linebacker, the same position Sandusky coached. I will assure you that NO coach EVER touched or caressed my posterior with his hands as this monster does in this video,

wfgodot
12-10-2011, 01:37 PM
Off (our) topic a bit, but, with the Fine case at Syracuse, evidence of a pattern forming: pedophiles rife in American amateur sports:

Former Players say AAU's ex-CEO Bobby Dodd sexually abused them (http://espn.go.com/espn/otl/story/_/id/7332846/ex-players-say-aau-bobby-dodd-sexually-abused-youths?ex_cid=Twitter_espn_7332846) (espn.com)
Amateur Athletic Union announces investigation, contacts police about allegations

concentric
12-10-2011, 01:54 PM
From my understanding, sports are considered by many men to be the most manly of manly provinces. I think that is why these pervs. chose sports to commit their crimes--they could hide under that mantle of disguise.

concentric
12-10-2011, 02:06 PM
and to add onto my last post:

sports would provide the pervs. with the largest pool of male children to sexually exploit.

Pensfan
12-10-2011, 02:07 PM
@Concerned Papa
Barry's word is not golden. We previously discussed how Joe Pa made a very incendiary comment about Barry's moral character in the past. Barry is known for "stretching the truth". Read about Barry's truthfulness. He just luckily overheard useful stock information that provided him with a cartload of cash and how the SEC charged him for insider trading.

Place yourself here: If you heard about a child's rape and then protected the rapist, would go around town talking about it? No, you wouldn't. You wouldn't because it is very likely that someone would report you to the police in addition to despising you.

BigCat
12-10-2011, 02:15 PM
I believe I read that LE learned that Mike McQueary saw a sexual assault by reading an anonymous post on a Penn State football message board. How many people must have known that something inappropriate happened between Sandusky and a boy before it ended up on the internet? Also, we know from Mike Francesa interview with Kim Jones that attendence at the Second Mile golf tournament declined rapidly in the 2000's. Jones suggested that old acquaintances of Sandusky's were attempting to distance themselves from him.

IMO, if anyone talked about the incident, it was McQueary. If he told his father, JoePa, Curley and Schultz that he saw a child being raped, in his mind, he was not protecting a rapist.

Pensfan
12-10-2011, 02:15 PM
and to add onto my last post:

sports would provide the pervs. with the largest pool of male children to sexually exploit.
Yep, and there is disproportionate amount in male sports, Boy Scouts, priesthood in RC Church, and ect... because these professions are filled by males and pedophiles are usually male. Only a small fraction are females.

Pensfan
12-10-2011, 02:22 PM
I believe I read that LE learned that Mike McQueary saw a sexual assault by reading an anonymous post on a Penn State football message board. How many people must have known that something inappropriate happened between Sandusky and a boy before it ended up on the internet? Also, we know from Mike Francesa interview with Kim Jones that attendence at the Second Mile golf tournament declined rapidly in the 2000's. Jones suggested that old acquaintances of Sandusky's were attempting to distance themselves from him.
,
IMO, if anyone talked about the incident, it was McQueary. If he told his father, JoePa, Curley and Schultz that he saw a child being raped, in his mind, he was not protecting a rapist.
That statement was on some male weightlifting/training forum, not a Penn State forum. I recently found that forum on the internet. I'll see if I can find it again and post the link. The comment was removed, but the thread was still open and posters were bashing the other posters that had not called the police much earlier when they first read the comment.

Pensfan
12-10-2011, 02:44 PM
I can't find that forum where the "McQueary saw Sandusky rape a child" comment was first posted. You guys would find it interesting because it appeared that the comment about Sandusky's rape had been posted for a long time? before someone finally notified the police or the police took any action. I will keep looking because maybe we can figure out the year it was posted. It was on some independent bodybuilding/fitness/sports forum.

J. J. in Phila
12-10-2011, 03:03 PM
I can't find that forum where the "McQueary saw Sandusky rape a child" comment was first posted. You guys would find it interesting because it appeared that the comment about Sandusky's rape had been posted for a long time? before someone finally notified the police or the police took any action. I will keep looking because maybe we can figure out the year it was posted. It was on some independent bodybuilding/fitness/sports forum.


I think it was "somebody saw something horrible" or something along those lines.

BigCat
12-10-2011, 03:18 PM
I can't find that forum where the "McQueary saw Sandusky rape a child" comment was first posted. You guys would find it interesting because it appeared that the comment about Sandusky's rape had been posted for a long time? before someone finally notified the police or the police took any action. I will keep looking because maybe we can figure out the year it was posted. It was on some independent bodybuilding/fitness/sports forum.

You can see a screen capture of the comments here: http://infiniteturbo.files.wordpress.com/2011/11/psumessageboard.jpg.

I got the impression it was a forum for discussing Penn State athletics based on the comments. I've read previously that the website was named nittanyfootball.com. However, I haven't been there to check out if the thread is still active or not.

Reader
12-10-2011, 03:47 PM
You can see a screen capture of the comments here: http://infiniteturbo.files.wordpress.com/2011/11/psumessageboard.jpg.

I got the impression it was a forum for discussing Penn State athletics based on the comments. I've read previously that the website was named nittanyfootball.com. However, I haven't been there to check out if the thread is still active or not.

Thanks for that information, BigCat!

Here is an early NYT article that also states:

A critical break in the investigation of Jerry Sandusky came via a posting on the Internet: a random mention that a Penn State football coach, years before, might have seen something ugly, but kept silent.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/11/17/sports/ncaafootball/internet-posting-helped-sandusky-investigators.html?_r=3&pagewanted=all

Pensfan
12-10-2011, 03:58 PM
You can see a screen capture of the comments here: http://infiniteturbo.files.wordpress.com/2011/11/psumessageboard.jpg.

I got the impression it was a forum for discussing Penn State athletics based on the comments. I've read previously that the website was named nittanyfootball.com. However, I haven't been there to check out if the thread is still active or not.

It was a fitness forum or weightlifting forum and it had a Penn State thread on it. It had some other threads involving nutrition and other guy stuff. I am still looking for it because I want to see if we can guess how long the comment sat there before the comment was reported to LE.


Bummer. According to below article, court proceedings aren’t televised in Pennsylvania,

There was a lottery in recent weeks to determine who will be allowed in the courtroom as Sandusky may face some of the alleged sexual-abuse victims in the case. Extra reporters will sit in an overflow room in the courthouse to watch a private video feed from the courtroom. Almost 1,400 people applied for 100 available courtroom seats.

There is a public lottery for 80 seats at the December 16 hearing for former Penn State administrators Tim Curley and Gary Schultz in Harrisburg, Pa.
Court proceedings aren’t televised in Pennsylvania, so the hearing won’t be a repeat of nationally broadcast trials that have become a cable news staple.
http://www.myfoxphilly.com/dpp/sports/penn_state/sandusky-circus-to-hit-small-town-121011

Pensfan
12-10-2011, 04:00 PM
You can see a screen capture of the comments here: http://infiniteturbo.files.wordpress.com/2011/11/psumessageboard.jpg.

I got the impression it was a forum for discussing Penn State athletics based on the comments. I've read previously that the website was named nittanyfootball.com. However, I haven't been there to check out if the thread is still active or not.
What is FOS forum? Maybe that is where it was posted first.

Reader
12-10-2011, 04:17 PM
Coming in late, with a lot of emotion...what's the deal...if the victims had been girls would he be being treated differently.

This man needs help...from what I have read so does his wife...and they both need to be kept far from children and young people.


This makes me ill...so very ill

BBM

Yes, agree with your feelings, and that if JS had been charged with assaulting girls/women it would have been handled more openly. There is an ugly, taboo side to pedophilia that makes people not want to 'stare it in the face' or think that someone they thought they knew very well could be guilty of this crime.

However, there is no help to be found...it has been proven there is no cure to this inclination. In fact in my state, pedophiles and other serial sexual offenders are held in confinement after they have served their prison sentences for the protection of the community. I think there was a suit about this recently but haven't heard the outcome as yet.

BigCat
12-10-2011, 04:18 PM
What is FOS forum? Maybe that is where it was posted first.

FOS is "Fight On State", the Penn State forum associated with Scout.com. http://pennstate.scout.com/2/1127880.html

Pensfan
12-10-2011, 04:18 PM
Here is something interesting. The post on that forum didn’t specify that a child was raped. The hinting post only stated that a coach had witnessed Sandusky do something “ugly” and that this coach had not reported it. LE investigators were working on the Sandusky case with the Central Mountain HS boy in 2010 and then they became interested in finding out info on that forum post.

“Working off the brief mention on an Internet forum where people chatted about Penn State athletics, according to the two people with knowledge of the case, investigators narrowed their list of coaches likely to have seen something to Mike McQueary, then an assistant coach and the football program’s recruiting coordinator."

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/nyt-critical-break-in-penn-st-scandal-came-from-a-comment-posted-on-the-internet/



FOS is "Fight On State", the Penn State forum associated with Scout.com. http://pennstate.scout.com/2/1127880.html
Thanks for finding that. I checked and that isn't it, but I'll keep looking.

Pensfan
12-10-2011, 04:27 PM
I think the hinting statement was on this forum somewhere, but I can't find the exact thread. Dozens of responses were deleted from the thread posted below since I read it two weeks ago.:( I only found it earlier because a news article linked to the exact site.
http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=139767583&highlight=sandusky

Reader
12-10-2011, 04:30 PM
Off (our) topic a bit, but, with the Fine case at Syracuse, evidence of a pattern forming: pedophiles rife in American amateur sports:

Former Players say AAU's ex-CEO Bobby Dodd sexually abused them (http://espn.go.com/espn/otl/story/_/id/7332846/ex-players-say-aau-bobby-dodd-sexually-abused-youths?ex_cid=Twitter_espn_7332846) (espn.com)
Amateur Athletic Union announces investigation, contacts police about allegations


I was reading about this case this morning...at least the Penn St. case seems to have given more boys/men the courage to tell what happened to them, and to open this subject to the public.

Mamabear1963
12-10-2011, 04:41 PM
Reader~

By help I guess I meant working through so that he sees he has a problem...I don't believe in reform or that he should ever be allowed close to children ever.


What state...I wish we had a law like that here...my dear friends husband molested her oldest daughter...and is in jail for 10-20...i wish they had thrown away the key...

Reader
12-10-2011, 04:55 PM
Reader~

By help I guess I meant working through so that he sees he has a problem...I don't believe in reform or that he should ever be allowed close to children ever.


What state...I wish we had a law like that here...my dear friends husband molested her oldest daughter...and is in jail for 10-20...i wish they had thrown away the key...

Thanks for the further explanation, Mamabear, and so sorry that happened to your friend's daughter.

I'm in Florida...let me check on the status of that law and get back with you.

Reader
12-10-2011, 05:17 PM
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/12/11/sports/culture-of-sports-works-against-children-especially-boys-reporting-abuse.html?ref=pennsylvaniastateuniversity

.............But sports as an environment for sexual abuse is hardly new. Experts say it has all the significant ingredients that can lead to such abuse: coaches have close relationships with children and unsupervised access to them, while holding a position of trust and authority that can often keep children from reporting the problems to their parents or other authority figures.

“It’s not new, but in sports it seems we are doomed to be shocked and appalled all over again,” said Dr. Sandra Kirby, an associate vice president for research at the University of Winnipeg, who led a study in the 1990s that found widespread instances of sexual misconduct involving coaches of the Canadian national team in various sports.
--------

Chris Gavagan, a filmmaker who is making a documentary on sexual abuse in sports called “Coached Into Silence,” based largely on abuse he said he endured from a youth hockey coach starting when he was 14, is among those who believe the problems for boys in sports are much larger than suspected. Not only does it happen more than people want to think, he said, but the culture of sports works against a child trying to report it.

“Sexually abused boys are going to be the most silent group,” Gavagan said, adding that the allegations involving Sandusky, if true, fit a familiar pattern.

“With the whole macho atmosphere of sports, it seems to be the perfect storm of circumstances,” he said. “There’s the culture of personality that keep these guys the kings of their little kingdoms, the sense of hero worship. The kinds of things Sandusky was offering those boys is every boy’s dream — trips to bowl games, going down on the field. It allows these things to go on for a long time. And when you don’t tell someone the first time it happens, you already feel complicit.”

Much more in this interesting article!

1&2&3
12-10-2011, 05:53 PM
Thanks for setting me straight on the two different cases I had mixed up ;). 100 pages and no charges were filed! To me, that is a crime in its self. There are so many people in the know, and the numbers have just multiplied with each passing year. I am not a young person so am bewildered that in the circles the Sanduskys ran, and as open as he was with his "new" friends, that the higher ups did not tell him to stop appearing in public with them. Also, I would have thought the women would have grown very suspicious that Sandusky always had a boy child with him and his wife was not included.

On Sirius Radio HLN station today, I heard the strongest cases against Sandusky are either victim #1 or 2 and victim 9. The reason for these are because they had told someone else (even though Dottie says she did not know about victim #9 or hear his screams).

Just thought of something - I've read different reports of Dottie contacting several victims prior to this blowup. If she did, would that be counted as "prior knowledge" even if she was just following Jerry's directions to call and what to say? Jerry would have had to tell her what the boy was saying Jerry did to him. For Dottie to make the call, that would be an awkward encounter, right? And to make such a call more than once, well, Dottie would have to be suspicious!

Reader
12-10-2011, 06:09 PM
Mamabear (and others interested), here are links to a 2007 article about the after-prison committment program, and one showing the Supreme Court upheld those laws in 2010:

"Still, political leaders, like those in New York, are vastly expanding such programs to keep large numbers of rapists and pedophiles off the streets after their prison terms in a response to public fury over grisly sex crimes.

In Coalinga, Calif., a $388 million facility will allow the state to greatly expand the offenders it holds to 1,500. Florida, Minnesota, Nebraska, Virginia and Wisconsin are also adding beds.

At the federal level, President Bush has signed a law offering money to states that commit sex offenders beyond their prison terms, and the Justice Department is creating a civil commitment program for federal prisoners."

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/03/04/us/04civil.html?pagewanted=print
-------

"Congress did not exceed its constitutional authority when it passed a 2006 law permitting the civil detention of certain violent sexual offenders after they have served their full prison terms, the Supreme Court ruled Monday.

In a 7 to 2 ruling, the high court upheld Section 4248 of the Adam Walsh Child Protection and Safety Act. The law establishes a civil commitment procedure to keep behind bars any federal inmate deemed by the government to be sexually dangerous."

http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Justice/2010/0517/Supreme-Court-upholds-federal-sex-offender-law

Concerned Papa
12-10-2011, 06:19 PM
http://i941.photobucket.com/albums/ad257/Papa813_bucket/SosSecondMile043-1-1.jpg+ I'm gonna call this group the initial inductees into my "Happy Valley Hall of Shame". We KNOW that each of these men knew about a child rapist in their midst. They knew, but did NOTHING to protect these children. As a direct result, MORE children were allowed to suffer at the hands of a monster.+ Aside from the obvious question of WHY? there's an equally compelling question of WHO ELSE KNEW?. Starting with this core group, who else did these people tell? Is it logical to believe they told their wives? family members?, friends?, neighbors?, business associates? + An attorney for one of the victims recently said:
“If you think about it from a logical standpoint, how do you have this group of people that are so intertwined with each other, and then have something like this come up, and then they not talk about it?”-
http://www.thedaily.com/page/2011/12/05/120511-news-paterno-business-1-5/
+
http://www.thedaily.com/page/2011/12/05/120511-news-paterno-business-1-5/ [/quote]
A former board member of The Second Mile has also said:
Some have questioned whether certain people within the charity knew before 2008, given Paterno’s close business and personal relationships — including dinners and a Bahamas vacation — with Poole and several other past and present board members.+ “I honestly think there was a conversation. I can’t believe there wasn’t one,” fumed one former board member. “To be honest, I think people were worried about what would happen to Penn State and The Second Mile if Jerry Sandusky was found out.”-
http://www.thedaily.com/page/2011/12/05/120511-news-paterno-business-1-5/
+
http://www.thedaily.com/page/2011/12/05/120511-news-paterno-business-1-5/ [/quote]
Notice there's a couple of empty spots in this group? I think there's going to be more rows added as this situation unfolds, but towards that end, I have three more nominees that I believe logic dictates should join this group.-
http://i941.photobucket.com/albums/ad257/Papa813_bucket/SosSecondMile147-2.jpg
+
From left to right:+ Robert (Bob) Poole, Chairman of the Board of Trustees for The Second Mile, a partner in Pinnacle Development, and CEO of Poole Anderson Construction. As far as I'm concerned, he had to have known.
Several former Second Mile board members told The Daily that if anyone on the board knew about the 2002 incident, it would have been Poole, who also was close to the charity’s former CEO, Jack Raykovitz.-
http://www.thedaily.com/page/2011/12/05/120511-news-paterno-business-1-5/

William Schreyer A partner in Pinnacle Development, and a Penn State trustee. His daughter is a longtime board member of The Second Mile. How could he not have known?

Katherine Genovese, the second-highest paid Second Mile employee and the wife of ex-CEO Jack Raykovitz. She has been with The Second Mile since it started in 1977. What are the chances she didn't know or that her husband didn't tell her?+
http://www.thedaily.com/page/2011/12/05/120511-news-paterno-business-1-5/ [/quote]


Katherine Genovese, Executive Vice President and second-highest paid Second Mile employee, and the wife of ex-CEO Jack Raykovitz. She has been with The Second Mile since it started in 1977. What are the chances she didn't know or that her husband didn't tell her? Genovese, an executive with the organization, told a person in authority in 2008 she had concerns about Sandusky, according to a source close to the investigation.-
http://www.pennlive.com/midstate/index.ssf/2011/12/second_mile_exec_who_expressed.html
+
http://www.pennlive.com/midstate/index.ssf/2011/12/second_mile_exec_who_expressed.html[/quote]
For me the saddest part of this tragedy is, regardless of who or how many actually knew about Sandusky, it only took one to find the strength and moral conviction to stop the suffering of these children.

Dr.Fessel
12-10-2011, 06:53 PM
The Second Mile has repeatedly asserted that it served more than 100,000 children across the state last year, but the number who received sustained or ongoing attention is much smaller, according to its reports.

For example, the organization counts as "children served" those who received a set of trading cards featuring photos of Penn State University athletes and inspirational messages. It also counts students who watched anti-bullying videos it distributed and foster children who got free tickets to amusement parks or baseball games. A leading child welfare expert described those activities as "low-dose" services of questionable value.

Although The Second Mile holds state licenses as a foster care and private children and youth services provider, annual inspection reports by the Department of Public Welfare going back to 1998 have repeatedly said The Second Mile served no children pursuant to those licenses.

The most recent report says "the mission of the agency has changed from directly providing foster care placement services to an intensive foster family support program" with 69 events "including amusement park outings, theatrical performances, puppet shows, minor league baseball games, snow tubing and holiday parties."
THE SANDUSKY CASE
» See the PG's coverage

Anne Bale, spokeswoman for the welfare department, said the records show that the organization stopped providing foster care sometime in the 1980s but maintained its license "to help them fundraise."..........................................


The Second Mile has derived its income from corporate and individual donations and fundraising events, including golf outings each year. According to The Second Mile's federal filings as a tax-exempt organization, total revenue for the year ended Aug. 31, 2010, was $2.2 million, down from $3.3 million the prior year.

The organization paid $1.6 mill- ion in salaries and benefits to employees, including $132,923 to Mr. Raykovitz, who resigned after charges against Mr. Sandusky were filed, and $100,580 to Ms. Genovese, who has kept her post.

Dr. Gelles said the case generated a "teachable moment" for would-be donors: He recommended that they examine IRS Form 990s that nonprofits are required to file documenting their revenues and expenditures.

"Remember that their annual report is a publicity document," he said.

Read more: http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/11331/1192859-143.stm#ixzz1gB8haBx9


Second Mile was a sham promoted by Penn State. Half of he money raised was paying salaries. I would love to know who holds the license agreement to those decks of cards of Penn State Athletes and who produced them and sold them to Second Mile. My guess would be Penn State or Joe Paterno.

Reader
12-10-2011, 06:54 PM
Gov. Tom Corbett's team defends handling of Jerry Sandusky case, campaign contributions from Second Mile board members

http://www.pennlive.com/midstate/index.ssf/2011/12/gov_tom_corbetts_team_defends.html

Excerpts:

Corbett accepted more than $25,000 from state board members of Sandusky’s charity, The Second Mile, during his gubernatorial campaign last year. On top of that, he accepted thousands more from the charity’s regional board members, according to Pennsylvania Department of State campaign contributions website.

His openness to the charity’s board members’ contributions to his campaign didn’t stop there. Corbett also allowed S&A Homes president and CEO Robert Poole, who chaired Second Mile’s board, to hold a small fundraiser for him at Poole’s home in January 2010.
-------

Furthermore, Harley said, “Nobody was aware, other than the governor and people in the attorney general’s office, of the investigation.”

Poole, however, said he did know about it.

In his email, Poole said that “to the best of my recollection, I first learned in 2008 or 2009 that authorities were investigating Mr. Sandusky.”

An earlier statement from the state confirmed that Sandusky volunteered to tell Second Mile officials about the investigation in November 2008.
-------

It’s clear the attorney general’s investigation did not heat up until late 2010.

That’s when a 1998 report of similar conduct by Sandusky was discovered. It’s also when investigators learned assistant coach Mike McQueary had witnessed something in the Penn State locker room showers in 2002.

The seven additional victims outlined in the initial grand jury report weren’t found until 2011. Joe Paterno and other Penn State officials — including the two who were eventually charged with perjury — didn’t testify until January 2011.

More at link....

Dr.Fessel
12-10-2011, 07:01 PM
http://i941.photobucket.com/albums/ad257/Papa813_bucket/SosSecondMile043-1-1.jpg

I'm gonna call this group the initial inductees into my "Happy Valley Hall of Shame". We KNOW that each of these men knew about a child rapist in their midst. They knew, but did NOTHING to protect these children. As a direct result, MORE children were allowed to suffer at the hands of a monster.

Aside from the obvious question of WHY? there's an equally compelling question of WHO ELSE KNEW?. Starting with this core group, who else did these people tell? Is it logical to believe they told their wives? family members?, friends?, neighbors?, business associates?

An attorney for one of the victims recently said:


A former board member of The Second Mile has also said:


Notice there's a couple of empty spots in this group? I think there's going to be more rows added as this situation unfolds, but towards that end, I have three more nominees that I believe logic dictates should join this group.



<modsnip>

For me the saddest part of this tragedy is, regardless of who or how many actually knew about Sandusky, it only took one to find the strength and moral conviction to stop the suffering of these children.

I think whoever at the Pennsylvania Department of Public Welfare rubber stamped that investigation of victim number 6 in 1998 should be added to your list.

I would also like to know what kept victim number 6th mother from talking about it to friends or relatives. Was she told not to?

BigCat
12-10-2011, 07:31 PM
Concerned Papa, I nominate Joe Amendola. He's more than just Sandusky's defense attorney. He and his teen bride were hobnobbing with many of the major players at Second Mile before this scandal became public.

Concerned Papa
12-10-2011, 07:35 PM
I think whoever at the Pennsylvania Department of Public Welfare rubber stamped that investigation of victim number 6 in 1998 should be added to your list.

I would also like to know what kept victim number 6th mother from talking about it to friends or relatives. Was she told not to?

The list goes on and on.

-The janitorial staff at the Lasch building

-The principal at Centre High School

-What about the desk clerks at all these motels victims are saying he took them to?

-How many investigators with the local LE knew but whitewashed over it?

-Wouldn't there logically be some kind of security guard(s) at the Lasch building? Surely anyone just couldn't waltz in? Were they blind?

Then you have to consider who all of these people did or didn't tell about what they saw or knew.

Concerned Papa
12-10-2011, 07:39 PM
Concerned Papa, I nominate Joe Amendola. He's more than just Sandusky's defense attorney. He and his teen bride were hobnobbing with many of the major players at Second Mile before this scandal became public.

I agree. A lot of confidences are often exchanged over a few cocktails. After all an attorney can be somewhat like a priest in certain regards, can't they?

Dr.Fessel
12-10-2011, 07:45 PM
The Chronicle of Philanthropy

http://philanthropy.com/article/Avoiding-Trouble-What/129920/



Make sure compensation to insiders is justifiable. Because the charges of abuse are so heinous, less attention has been given to financial matters involving Mr. Sandusky and the charity’s board. But those also are of concern.

Second Mile reportedly paid $57,000 each year from 2001 to 2007 to Mr. Sandusky as a consultant. Such payments raise questions about whether it violated federal rules on excessive compensation to charity insiders. If the payments cannot be justified, it’s not just Mr. Sandusky who could be in trouble but also any board member who approved the transaction.

Another questionable relationship involved Robert Poole, chairman of the charity’s board. Mr. Poole is chief executive of Poole Anderson Construction, which had been selected to manage Second Mile’s $11.5-million “Center for Excellence” building project, an effort that was shelved as a result of the scandal.

Some people now wonder whether Mr. Poole had an interest in playing down reports of Mr. Sandusky’s misconduct because it would have jeopardized the project.

Boards need policies for approving insider transactions that do more than just follow the law. Favoritism endangers the public’s trust in a charity.

Concerned Papa
12-10-2011, 07:54 PM
The Chronicle of Philanthropy

http://philanthropy.com/article/Avoiding-Trouble-What/129920/



Make sure compensation to insiders is justifiable. Because the charges of abuse are so heinous, less attention has been given to financial matters involving Mr. Sandusky and the charity’s board. But those also are of concern.

Second Mile reportedly paid $57,000 each year from 2001 to 2007 to Mr. Sandusky as a consultant. Such payments raise questions about whether it violated federal rules on excessive compensation to charity insiders. If the payments cannot be justified, it’s not just Mr. Sandusky who could be in trouble but also any board member who approved the transaction.

Another questionable relationship involved Robert Poole, chairman of the charity’s board. Mr. Poole is chief executive of Poole Anderson Construction, which had been selected to manage Second Mile’s $11.5-million “Center for Excellence” building project, an effort that was shelved as a result of the scandal.

Some people now wonder whether Mr. Poole had an interest in playing down reports of Mr. Sandusky’s misconduct because it would have jeopardized the project.

Boards need policies for approving insider transactions that do more than just follow the law. Favoritism endangers the public’s trust in a charity.

Yep, I'd say Mr. Poole had quite a bit at play and subject to risk by Sandusky being exposed. Aside from the TSM project, his construction company had done approximately $100M as a contractor on Penn State projects. Not to mention the $125M development he was a partner in with JoePa and Schreyer, a Penn State trustee.

It'll be interesting to see just how many of those choice construction projects he gets from Penn State, NOW.

Dr.Fessel
12-10-2011, 09:19 PM
Here is the Second Mile Tax filling for 2110

On the first page you see the expenses claimed for fundraising is 409,000 dollars for the year..............say what? LOL LOL

http://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q=cache:TeuYC8kmXuwJ:www.whptv.com/media/lib/8/9/7/2/972c17e2-ce3c-407a-a374-2214f279dcee/Second_Mile_Return_of_Organization_Exempt_from_Inc ome_Tax_form.pdf+Second+Mile+IRS+Form+990&hl=en&gl=us&pid=bl&srcid=ADGEESgDx5c1Xd_oocsOX8_wm32CyWj2CdtNp1Ohv3ab j9hnpC0tYxVkgLpK9-lZMW93WgLfHUA2tag3NWiCN3t61RwBxrRiIY0LVahVEJ-utpkeYRWx_uqOob3vSNlZrXFPTZjYCTqW&sig=AHIEtbSeRoJ_B5m-FwYr19P2L1MGQTtoJw

I wonder how much of that bill was from catering from the kitchen of Paterno's retirement village?

Mamabear1963
12-10-2011, 10:35 PM
http://lancasteronline.com/article/local/548486_Sandusky-s-defender---Method-to-my-madness-.html

article is about the lawyer...I feel sick and:banghead::furious:

no other words

Dum-Dum Sucker
12-10-2011, 11:49 PM
No. It will be Penn State's liability insurance carrier that has the responsibility of defending Curley and Shutlz unless the charge of perjury is not covered under their director's liability insurance because it is a criminal action. Hopefully an attorney on Websleuths will be kind enough to explain this.

Lanny Davis, Clinton's previous attorney, may have the function of "spin doctor" as well as advisor.
Lanny Davis - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lanny_Davis)


Lanny Davis :silenced:

StellarsJay
12-11-2011, 12:18 AM
This article says Sandusky's home was searched in the summer of 2011.
http://www.pennlive.com/midstate/index.ssf/2011/12/gov_tom_corbetts_team_defends.html

Concerned Papa
12-11-2011, 12:54 AM
http://i941.photobucket.com/albums/ad257/Papa813_bucket/Hallofshame1.jpg

I think I'm gonna go ahead and nominate this Governor as an inductee into our Hall of Shame.

I'm not completely buying his story about the $3,000,000 he gave TSM and then took back after this monster was exposed. Sounds like a CYA story if ever I heard one.

That's only part of the reason I think he should be an inductee. I'm not going for this bs of dragging out the investigation for so long when he was AG by placing only ONE Highway Patrol Trooper on the case as an investigator. It seems to me that could just as easily be planning on burying the matter and hoping time made it go away.

On top of all of this, wasn't there around $600,000 +/- donated to his campaign by TSM and/or it's officials?

Yep, he needs to be up there with the rest of them.

ThoughtFox
12-11-2011, 02:21 AM
The Chronicle of Philanthropy

http://philanthropy.com/article/Avoiding-Trouble-What/129920/

Make sure compensation to insiders is justifiable. Because the charges of abuse are so heinous, less attention has been given to financial matters involving Mr. Sandusky and the charity’s board. But those also are of concern.

Second Mile reportedly paid $57,000 each year from 2001 to 2007 to Mr. Sandusky as a consultant. Such payments raise questions about whether it violated federal rules on excessive compensation to charity insiders. If the payments cannot be justified, it’s not just Mr. Sandusky who could be in trouble but also any board member who approved the transaction.

Another questionable relationship involved Robert Poole, chairman of the charity’s board. Mr. Poole is chief executive of Poole Anderson Construction, which had been selected to manage Second Mile’s $11.5-million “Center for Excellence” building project, an effort that was shelved as a result of the scandal.

Some people now wonder whether Mr. Poole had an interest in playing down reports of Mr. Sandusky’s misconduct because it would have jeopardized the project.

Boards need policies for approving insider transactions that do more than just follow the law. Favoritism endangers the public’s trust in a charity.

Here's the problem I have with all of this - there are quid pro quos going on in a circular arrangement.

Sandusky got a salary, but since was the founder he also gave those people jobs and promoted the charity through Penn State.

Then I assume Sandusky got some sort of tax write-off when he would donate money back to the charity. He was giving money and getting it back on a regular basis. And really all of that was to fund and also camouflage his own private sex addiction.

Paterno and Company come into it because for years the charity aspect with the trading cards and all was good publicity for Penn State, but also because those guys made all these business deals from which various entities profited. I've been reading all these reports of insider deals until my head is spinning and I surely couldn't draw a flow chart of how everyone is connected, but it's pretty dang obvious there were some illegal deals made with the University and that Second Mile wasn't acting completely as a legitimate non-profit.

This is like a game of 6 degrees of separation, only it goes beyond that to 10, 11, 12 degrees of separation.

Concerned Papa
12-11-2011, 12:48 PM
This morning, I ran across an article dated November 21, 2011 that contains an NBC interview with a young man who, clearly, seems to have been following the exact script of grooming the victims that several others have told about. At the time of this interview, this young man is denying any sexual attack by Sandusky, but does express feelings of aprehension regarding their relationship.

I might be wrong, but I've got a feeling the denying has stopped and this may be one of these newest victims coming forward. In the interview his denials seem, at best, somewhat half hearted to me and possibly he has decided to confront his reality.

Watch the video. It's very much like watching the movie of a book you've read. I snipped some of the images out to illustrate what I mean. They are a disturbing look at a monster grooming his victim.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/11/22/jerry-sandusky-second-mile-frankie-probst-penn-state-scandal_n_1107163.html



<modsnip -- removed pictures of minor and others who are innocent at this time>

I think I'm gonna be sick.

BTW, I've counted FIVE men in these images who will head STRAIGHT to my "Hall of Shame" just as soon as I can figure out who they are.

Rlaub44
12-11-2011, 02:26 PM
This explains why the 1998 case may have been prematurely dropped: the Police Chief overseeing the case was once Sandusky's neighbor!

http://www.centredaily.com/2011/12/11/3016384/psu-chief-was-sanduskys-neighbor.html

Curiouser and curiouser. :banghead:

Rlaub44
12-11-2011, 02:47 PM
This article indicates that there is a new version of McQueary's story, including that another physician who spoke with McQueary the night of the shower incident followed up with Schultz later to see what was done.

http://www.pennlive.com/midstate/index.ssf/2011/12/another_version_of_mike_mcquea.html

stilettos
12-11-2011, 03:08 PM
http://lancasteronline.com/article/local/548486_Sandusky-s-defender---Method-to-my-madness-.html

article is about the lawyer...I feel sick and:banghead::furious:

no other words

This man appears to have an affiliation with an underage person. Could it be that he thinks sexual contact with minors should not be illegal? :banghead:

BigCat
12-11-2011, 03:17 PM
JoePa falls and fractures pelvis. http://espn.go.com/college-football/story/_/id/7341515/penn-state-nittany-lions-joe-paterno-re-fractures-pelvis-fall-report-says

ThoughtFox
12-11-2011, 04:30 PM
This explains why the 1998 case may have been prematurely dropped: the Police Chief overseeing the case was once Sandusky's neighbor!

http://www.centredaily.com/2011/12/11/3016384/psu-chief-was-sanduskys-neighbor.html

Curiouser and curiouser. :banghead:

OMG!!!! :furious:

The personal connection between the chief and the architect of “Linebacker U” now has lawyers for Sandusky’s alleged victims questioning what role those ties may have played in closing the 1998 investigation, which they argue was a missed opportunity to stop Sandusky from assaulting more children.

“It reflects how incestuous the cast of characters are,” said Michael Boni, who represents the person identified as Victim 1 in the grand jury report. “It’s circular. The fact that they were neighbors ought to be investigated. Did Harmon think ‘I shouldn’t pursue this matter’ because he’s a friend or neighbor? These things have to be looked at.”


Read more: http://www.centredaily.com/2011/12/11/3016384/psu-chief-was-sanduskys-neighbor.html#ixzz1gGQJrVCY

ThoughtFox
12-11-2011, 04:31 PM
And this quote from the article makes my hair stand on end!!! :thud:


According to the grand jury report, Harmon ordered his detective, Ronald Schreffler, to close the Sandusky case after then-District Attorney Ray Gricar decided not to file criminal charges. :ohoh:

In 1977, Harmon moved onto Norle Street, a small tight-knit community where residents described neighborhood kids playing together, including Sandusky’s and Harmon’s children. They rode bikes together in a cul-de-sac on Yardal Road. Sandusky also hosted kickball games in his backyard. Several neighbors said they were shocked by the allegations and described the Sanduskys as a loving family and great neighbors.

Colleagues said the two families attended the same church, St. Paul’s United Methodist Church in State College.

Read more: http://www.centredaily.com/2011/12/11/3016384/psu-chief-was-sanduskys-neighbor.html#ixzz1gGQtarU1

HMSHood
12-11-2011, 04:47 PM
Sounds like Jerry Sandusky's perversion was an open secret from Penn State to State College.

HMSHood
12-11-2011, 04:49 PM
This morning, I ran across an article dated November 21, 2011 that contains an NBC interview with a young man who, clearly, seems to have been following the exact script of grooming the victims that several others have told about. At the time of this interview, this young man is denying any sexual attack by Sandusky, but does express feelings of aprehension regarding their relationship.

I might be wrong, but I've got a feeling the denying has stopped and this may be one of these newest victims coming forward. In the interview his denials seem, at best, somewhat half hearted to me and possibly he has decided to confront his reality.

Watch the video. It's very much like watching the movie of a book you've read. I snipped some of the images out to illustrate what I mean. They are a disturbing look at a monster grooming his victim.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/11/22/jerry-sandusky-second-mile-frankie-probst-penn-state-scandal_n_1107163.html

http://i941.photobucket.com/albums/ad257/Papa813_bucket/Monster4.jpg[/IMG]http://i941.photobucket.com/albums/ad257/Papa813_bucket/Monster2.jpg
http://i941.photobucket.com/albums/ad257/Papa813_bucket/Monster1.jpghttp://i941.photobucket.com/albums/ad257/Papa813_bucket/Monster5.jpg
http://i941.photobucket.com/albums/ad257/Papa813_bucket/Monster6.jpg[IMG]http://i941.photobucket.com/albums/ad257/Papa813_bucket/Monster7.jpg

I think I'm gonna be sick.

BTW, I've counted FIVE men in these images who will head STRAIGHT to my "Hall of Shame" just as soon as I can figure out who they are.

Those photos are really disturbing.

Reader
12-11-2011, 04:59 PM
Abuse images database bigger scandal for state

http://www.centredaily.com/2011/12/11/3016401/abuse-images-database-bigger-scandal.html

.........Pennsylvania’s governor and attorney general know where thousands more Jerry Sanduskys are, and they have failed to report them to law enforcement.

Gov. Tom Corbett has been on notice about Pennsylvania’s unreported child predator suspects since at least 2009, when the National Association to Protect Children and Pennsylvania child abduction survivor Alicia Kozakiewicz briefed him on it and asked him to take action.
----------

Make no mistake, the material being called “child pornography” today has nothing to do with snapshots of babies in the bathtub. These are brutal crime scene recordings of children— many very young—being raped and hurt.

Which brings us back to what Corbett and Kelly know. Each day across America, law enforcement investigators log online using a national system called RoundUp. They locate thousands of criminals trafficking in child abuse images online. These suspects are geo-located, evidence is collected on their activities and they are logged into a central law enforcement database.

That database is hosted on servers at the Pennsylvania State Police.

The RoundUp database contains evidence on as many as 20,000 suspects in Pennsylvania alone. The vast majority are never investigated or referred to local law enforcement agencies.

So if Pennsylvania really cares about arresting predatory criminals who target children, it’s easy to stop them. They’re sitting in the RoundUp database.

Reader
12-11-2011, 06:16 PM
http://i941.photobucket.com/albums/ad257/Papa813_bucket/Hallofshame1.jpg

I think I'm gonna go ahead and nominate this Governor as an inductee into our Hall of Shame.

I'm not completely buying his story about the $3,000,000 he gave TSM and then took back after this monster was exposed. Sounds like a CYA story if ever I heard one.

That's only part of the reason I think he should be an inductee. I'm not going for this bs of dragging out the investigation for so long when he was AG by placing only ONE Highway Patrol Trooper on the case as an investigator. It seems to me that could just as easily be planning on burying the matter and hoping time made it go away.

On top of all of this, wasn't there around $600,000 +/- donated to his campaign by TSM and/or it's officials?

Yep, he needs to be up there with the rest of them.

......this post:

Rlaub44 This explains why the 1998 case may have been prematurely dropped: the Police Chief overseeing the case was once Sandusky's neighbor!

http://www.centredaily.com/2011/12/1...-neighbor.html

....I nominate the former police chief, the children's protection worker and former DA Gricar, even tho he's deceased, as 3 that stopped the investigation in 1998 which would have prevented more of JS's abuse of little disadvantaged boys. Though they declined to file charges and the social worker even said no abuse law was broken, we now know this was not true. Just being naked in the shower with a minor was indecent exposure and if they had really investigated, the cases back to 1994 would have come out also.

And the fact of his picking on the disadvantaged kids from his org. created for that purpose, it seems, is especially maddening to me...he knew these kids would be starving for a father figure and feel so blessed to be chosen by him for all the attention, going to games, etc. that he used to groom them.

There's a name for him but I can't say it here.....

Pensfan
12-11-2011, 06:25 PM
Abuse images database bigger scandal for state

http://www.centredaily.com/2011/12/11/3016401/abuse-images-database-bigger-scandal.html

.........Pennsylvania’s governor and attorney general know where thousands more Jerry Sanduskys are, and they have failed to report them to law enforcement.

Gov. Tom Corbett has been on notice about Pennsylvania’s unreported child predator suspects since at least 2009, when the National Association to Protect Children and Pennsylvania child abduction survivor Alicia Kozakiewicz briefed him on it and asked him to take action.
----------

Make no mistake, the material being called “child pornography” today has nothing to do with snapshots of babies in the bathtub. These are brutal crime scene recordings of children— many very young—being raped and hurt.

Which brings us back to what Corbett and Kelly know. Each day across America, law enforcement investigators log online using a national system called RoundUp. They locate thousands of criminals trafficking in child abuse images online. These suspects are geo-located, evidence is collected on their activities and they are logged into a central law enforcement database.

That database is hosted on servers at the Pennsylvania State Police.

The RoundUp database contains evidence on as many as 20,000 suspects in Pennsylvania alone. The vast majority are never investigated or referred to local law enforcement agencies.

So if Pennsylvania really cares about arresting predatory criminals who target children, it’s easy to stop them. They’re sitting in the RoundUp database.
bbm

This article is bs. What has occurred is that sleazy politicians are jumping on the bandwagon to make themselves and their political party look like child saviors by falsely insinuating that the Attorney General’s office supports child porn pervs.

What that article forgot to mention is very important and shows the creepiness of politicians. Here is what was left out:

Any national resources available to the Attorney General’s Office regarding internet trafficking of child pornography are already accessible by Pennsylvania State Police, county District Attorneys, and local police department who participate in the national Internet Crimes Against Children (ICAC) Task Force program. Any local departments who are not part of the ICAC Task Force program can become trained for this program and while in training they can always utilize the child porn data obtained from trained departments.

Since its fairly recent inception, The Attorney General’s Child Predator Unit has arrested 298 predators and has a 100% conviction rate. It is a national leader in child predator prosecutions.
http://www.attorneygeneral.gov/crime.aspx?id=56
http://www.whptv.com/news/local/story/Child-Predator-Unit-makes-298th-arrest-of-an/zPIyn7_oYE2aG1MOBoAbVw.cspx?rss=50

Concerned Papa
12-11-2011, 06:30 PM
......this post:

Rlaub44 This explains why the 1998 case may have been prematurely dropped: the Police Chief overseeing the case was once Sandusky's neighbor!

http://www.centredaily.com/2011/12/1...-neighbor.html

....I nominate the former police chief, the children's protection worker and former DA Gricar, even tho he's deceased, as 3 that stopped the investigation in 1998 which would have prevented more of JS's abuse of little disadvantaged boys. Though they declined to file charges and the social worker even said no abuse law was broken, we now know this was not true. Just being naked in the shower with a minor was indecent exposure and if they had really investigated, the cases back to 1994 would have come out also.

And the fact of his picking on the disadvantaged kids from his org. created for that purpose, it seems, is especially maddening to me...he knew these kids would be starving for a father figure and feel so blessed to be chosen by him for all the attention, going to games, etc. that he used to groom them.

There's a name for him but I can't say it here.....

I agree with all three selections. As I said in the initial Hall of Shame post, there's gonna have to be several more rows added. Every person being nominated and/or inducted KNEW about a child rapist in their community, yet did NOTHING to protect these children.

There were many who knew.

Dr.Fessel
12-11-2011, 06:40 PM
This article indicates that there is a new version of McQueary's story, including that another physician who spoke with McQueary the night of the shower incident followed up with Schultz later to see what was done.

http://www.pennlive.com/midstate/index.ssf/2011/12/another_version_of_mike_mcquea.html

"According to the source with knowledge of Dranov’s testimony before the grand jury, it went like this:

McQueary heard "sex sounds" and the shower running, and a young boy stuck his head around the corner of the shower stall, peering at McQueary as an adult arm reached around his waist and pulled him back out of view.".......


There is a whole lot more about this testimony that is not being said. As soon as a Grand Juror heard that they would have asked if a boy just poked his head around the corner how did he see an arm around the boys waist pull him back in?

IMO this guy lied to the Grand Jury and the Grand Jury ferreted it out. Remember they would have McQueary's father telling the same story as the son.

This Dr. was a mandatory reporter and is just playing CYA. The SA is not worried about this so called Dr.'s testimony. They already chewed him up in front of the Grand Jury. IMO

Reader
12-11-2011, 07:46 PM
bbm

This article is bs. What has occurred is that sleazy politicians are jumping on the bandwagon to make themselves and their political party look like child saviors by falsely insinuating that the Attorney General’s office supports child porn pervs.

What that article forgot to mention is very important and shows the creepiness of politicians. Here is what was left out:

Any national resources available to the Attorney General’s Office regarding internet trafficking of child pornography are already accessible by Pennsylvania State Police, county District Attorneys, and local police department who participate in the national Internet Crimes Against Children (ICAC) Task Force program. Any local departments who are not part of the ICAC Task Force program can become trained for this program and while in training they can always utilize the child porn data obtained from trained departments.

Since its fairly recent inception, The Attorney General’s Child Predator Unit has arrested 298 predators and has a 100% conviction rate. It is a national leader in child predator prosecutions.
http://www.attorneygeneral.gov/crime.aspx?id=56
http://www.whptv.com/news/local/story/Child-Predator-Unit-makes-298th-arrest-of-an/zPIyn7_oYE2aG1MOBoAbVw.cspx?rss=50

Why thanks, Pensfan, glad you enjoyed the article, LOL!

Politics aside, I checked those 2 articles linked above and found the child predator unit was created in 2005 and has made the 298 arrests; nothing was mentioned that I saw about 100% convictions. This is about 50 cases per year, or a little over 5 per month, not very impressive when they are catching these people by computer, and nothing compared to the 20,000 that are sitting out there as unworked cases.

Geez, when I worked in CPS waaaay back, I got 4-5 cases per DAY which had to be investigated in the field (home visits, school visits, contacts with neighbors and other witnesses), decisions made, court reports written by hand, no computers available then, attend and testify at court hearings, transport and check on kids at shelters, take them to doctors, counseling parents, on and on. Then we were on call one weekend each month; I always got the full moon weekend and sometimes worked over 30 hours in 2 days and nights, but had to come to work Monday morning.

These guys got it easy as far as I'm concerned!

Pensfan
12-11-2011, 08:09 PM
Why thanks, Pensfan, glad you enjoyed the article, LOL!

Politics aside, I checked those 2 articles linked above and found the child predator unit was created in 2005 and has made the 298 arrests; nothing was mentioned that I saw about 100% convictions. This is about 50 cases per year, or a little over 5 per month, not very impressive when they are catching these people by computer, and nothing compared to the 20,000 that are sitting out there as unworked cases.

Geez, when I worked in CPS waaaay back, I got 4-5 cases per DAY which had to be investigated in the field (home visits, school visits, contacts with neighbors and other witnesses), decisions made, court reports written by hand, no computers available then, attend and testify at court hearings, transport and check on kids at shelters, take them to doctors, counseling parents, on and on. Then we were on call one weekend each month; I always got the full moon weekend and sometimes worked over 30 hours in 2 days and nights, but had to come to work Monday morning.

These guys got it easy as far as I'm concerned!

Are you going to run for that easy job of Attorney General of PA?

Pensfan
12-11-2011, 08:19 PM
Why thanks, Pensfan, glad you enjoyed the article, LOL!

Politics aside, I checked those 2 articles linked above and found the child predator unit was created in 2005 and has made the 298 arrests; nothing was mentioned that I saw about 100% convictions.


bbm
http://www.whptv.com/news/local/story/Lawmakers-say-government-officials-should-be/Kmst2IVCFkGkJ3A4zfG79Q.cspx

mahmoo
12-11-2011, 08:54 PM
Snipped:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/11/22/jerry-sandusky-second-mile-frankie-probst-penn-state-scandal_n_1107163.html (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/11/22/jerry-sandusky-second-mile-frankie-probst-penn-state-scandal_n_1107163.html)

What really gave me the heebie geebies from the video is that scrapbook Jer put together for Probst. Wonder if he gave it to him before the young man had started to try to distance himself from Sandusky or after. I also wonder if Dottie helped put the scrapbook together.....or even knew about it. It seems to have some 'soft, feminine' touches and reference in it. Here's a poem/quote from the scrapbook:
Happiness is like a butterfly, the more you chase it, the more it will elude you, but if you turn your attention to other things, it will come sit softly on your shoulder Seems like a strange quote for a grown man to be giving to a teen/pre-teen boy. I grabbed a few screen shots of the scrapbook shown in the video.
http://oi41.tinypic.com/zlazhv.jpg

http://oi39.tinypic.com/so3ev5.jpg

http://oi44.tinypic.com/1kaz9.jpg

http://oi39.tinypic.com/2euo0sy.jpg

http://oi39.tinypic.com/1puvsj.jpg


Also from interview with Probst (http://rockcenter.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2011/11/21/8935748-jerry-sandusky-clingy-says-man-mentored-by-former-penn-state-asst-coach):
Probst eventually began to pull away from Sandusky when Sandusky began to demand more and more of his time. Sandusky was also volunteering as a football coach at Probst’s high school, so Probst was seeing Sandusky nearly every day.

“I wasn’t seeing my friends as much, wasn’t doing as teenagers do,” Probst said.

When Probst began to distance himself, Sandusky would pull him out of class to chat with him. The chats eventually turned into arguments, Probst said.
This is the 2nd guy that we know of that Sandusky was pulling out of class.....the other is victim 1. Wonder what was so important he couldn't wait til after the boys got out of class to speak with them? It almost seems like he was desperate.....like a scorned lover would act.

Concerned Papa
12-11-2011, 09:15 PM
No doubt that album is bizarre. I particularly noticed one of the last lines:

http://i941.photobucket.com/albums/ad257/Papa813_bucket/Monster3-1.jpg

Remain loyal? Wonder what that admonition is all about?

I found this article while searching for information on Karen Probst, the principal of Central Mountain High School. IDK if it means anything, but I couldn't help but notice the same last name with this young man. Maybe it's a common name in that part of the country, IDK, but it struck me as odd nonetheless.

Reader
12-11-2011, 09:18 PM
Prelim Primer: What Tuesday's Sandusky Hearing Will Hold

http://www.statecollege.com/news/local-news/prelim-primer-what-tuesdays-sandusky-hearing-will-hold-958127/

Excerpt:

•Q: Can I see the hearing on TV or read a transcript?

•A: Pennsylvania law prohibits broadcasting inside from its courtrooms. News reporters allowed to attend the hearing have been ordered to halt all electronic communication while they're inside the main courtroom and a secondary courtroom during the event. Mainstream media are expected to have extensive coverage of the proceedings as soon as they're able to distribute information, likely during recesses or breaks at the hearing. An official court transcript from the hearing will be posted on the Centre County government website once it's approved by involved parties. That transcript may not appear for some days after the hearing, court officials have said.

As for the mainstream media, as many as 200 journalists are expected to cover the proceedings directly. They'll be split between the courtroom where the hearing will be held -- Courtroom No. 1 in the Centre County Courthouse -- and an adjacent satellite courtroom where a live, closed-circuit feed will be available. About 100 members of the public are expected to attend, as well; they were chosen through a lottery process. A virtual tour of Courtroom No. 1 is available via StateCollege.com.

ThoughtFox
12-11-2011, 09:25 PM
Margins completely blown again!

Do we have a code here for hiding large
pictures under a spoiler tag or something?

Or maybe just post the link?

Dr.Fessel
12-11-2011, 09:27 PM
No doubt that album is bizarre. I particularly noticed one of the last lines:

http://i941.photobucket.com/albums/ad257/Papa813_bucket/Monster3-1.jpg

Remain loyal? Wonder what that admonition is all about?

I found this article while searching for information on Karen Probst, the principal of Central Mountain High School. IDK if it means anything, but I couldn't help but notice the same last name with this young man. Maybe it's a common name in that part of the country, IDK, but it struck me as odd nonetheless.

You know I bet these books were presented at that little Victims Dinner Sandusky had after the investigation started.

Dr.Fessel
12-11-2011, 09:28 PM
Margins completely blown again!

Do we have a code here for hiding large
pictures under a spoiler tag or something?

Or maybe just post the link? They did not blow for me. That is strange.

Reader
12-11-2011, 09:31 PM
The margins are way out of whack for me also...

Dr.Fessel
12-11-2011, 09:38 PM
The margins are way out of whack for me also... I wonder why mine aren't? I am running windows xp.:waitasec: The other day a picture did blow them out.

Concerned Papa
12-11-2011, 09:46 PM
I wonder why mine aren't? I am running windows xp.:waitasec: The other day a picture did blow them out.

What's weird is I've heard this margin complaint for years and I have no idea what anyone's talking about. Mine are always the same.

Dr.Fessel
12-11-2011, 09:49 PM
What's weird is I've heard this margin complaint for years and I have no idea what anyone's talking about. Mine are always the same.

That is strange. I have had them so big there was a slider under the post you had to move to read it. Not today though.

mahmoo
12-11-2011, 09:54 PM
The margins are way out of whack for me also...
:dunno: my margins are fine.

Reader
12-11-2011, 09:59 PM
That's what I've got now...the page is actually 2 pages wide. I'm using windows XP also.

Dr.Fessel
12-11-2011, 10:00 PM
:dunno: my margins are fine. Maybe the reasons mine are ok is I am running firefox for a browser?

1&2&3
12-11-2011, 10:26 PM
After viewing those pictures and seeing that scrapbook, it seems there ought to be enough evidence that Sandusky would do one thing right - admit he's guilty and give his victims the gift of freedom from testifying! I am dreaming! I am so sickened by this evil monster!!

Guess he figures he is going to spend the rest of his life in prison, so the longer he can stay out the better! Why grow a heart now?

Quiche
12-11-2011, 11:02 PM
Omg, I'm actually caught up! Only took me all week, lol.

Thanks for all the wonderful sleuthing, guys-- it's going to be a fascinating week in Happy Valley.

mahmoo
12-11-2011, 11:19 PM
Wonder if Jer has given scrapbooks to other boys? Wonder if he made scrapbooks for his own boys/daughter?

Rlaub44
12-11-2011, 11:26 PM
This article indicates that there is a new version of McQueary's story, including that another physician who spoke with McQueary the night of the shower incident followed up with Schultz later to see what was done.

http://www.pennlive.com/midstate/index.ssf/2011/12/another_version_of_mike_mcquea.html

"According to the source with knowledge of Dranov’s testimony before the grand jury, it went like this:

McQueary heard "sex sounds" and the shower running, and a young boy stuck his head around the corner of the shower stall, peering at McQueary as an adult arm reached around his waist and pulled him back out of view.".......


There is a whole lot more about this testimony that is not being said. As soon as a Grand Juror heard that they would have asked if a boy just poked his head around the corner how did he see an arm around the boys waist pull him back in?

IMO this guy lied to the Grand Jury and the Grand Jury ferreted it out. Remember they would have McQueary's father telling the same story as the son.

This Dr. was a mandatory reporter and is just playing CYA. The SA is not worried about this so called Dr.'s testimony. They already chewed him up in front of the Grand Jury. IMO

You may be right. Although, Schultz is the one charged with perjury, not Dr. Dranov or McQueary, so I wonder if the Grand Jurors gave more credence to the Dr's testimony.

There are so many pieces of the puzzle we just haven't seen yet; hopefully the upcoming hearings will shed more light on who really said and did what. Wouldn't it be great to read the actual transcripts of the grand jury testimony, instead of just the summary? Wishful thinking, I know.

Pensfan
12-11-2011, 11:40 PM
"According to the source with knowledge of Dranov’s testimony before the grand jury, it went like this:

McQueary heard "sex sounds" and the shower running, and a young boy stuck his head around the corner of the shower stall, peering at McQueary as an adult arm reached around his waist and pulled him back out of view.".......


There is a whole lot more about this testimony that is not being said. As soon as a Grand Juror heard that they would have asked if a boy just poked his head around the corner how did he see an arm around the boys waist pull him back in?

IMO this guy lied to the Grand Jury and the Grand Jury ferreted it out. Remember they would have McQueary's father telling the same story as the son.

This Dr. was a mandatory reporter and is just playing CYA. The SA is not worried about this so called Dr.'s testimony. They already chewed him up in front of the Grand Jury. IMO
I think Sara Ganim has a unreliable unnamed source or McQueary changed his story after he told the family friend that he didn't see penetration.

"Dranov told grand jurors that he asked McQueary three times if he saw anything sexual, and three times McQueary said no, according to the source."

The nephrologist wouldn't have a reason to protect Sandusky and fail to report a rape. This could cause him to lose his medical license (8 years of college + 4 years of internal medicine residency + 2 years of nephrology fellowship training. That is 14 years of college and specialized training that could be lost and he appears to be under retirement age. Nope. Didn't happen.)

Also remember that this physician is a family friend and colleague of McQueary's dad, but he testified against McQueary if Sara's unnamed source is correct.

Pensfan
12-11-2011, 11:49 PM
You may be right. Although, Schultz is the one charged with perjury, not Dr. Dranov or McQueary, so I wonder if the Grand Jurors gave more credence to the Dr's testimony.

There are so many pieces of the puzzle we just haven't seen yet; hopefully the upcoming hearings will shed more light on who really said and did what. Wouldn't it be great to read the actual transcripts of the grand jury testimony, instead of just the summary? Wishful thinking, I know.
Shultz and Curley are charged with perjury because they lied and said that McQueary didn't suggest that anything sexual was occurring in the shower. They told the grand jury that McQueary only reported horseplay in the shower and that it made him (McQueary) feel uncomfortable. It now appears that several people testified that McQueary told them that he thought something perverse was happening because he sexual heard noises in the shower, not that he witnessed a rape. (This is based on Sara's unnamed source which might not be credible.)

ThoughtFox
12-12-2011, 12:30 AM
I think Sara Ganim has a unreliable unnamed source or McQueary changed his story after he told the family friend that he didn't see penetration.

"Dranov told grand jurors that he asked McQueary three times if he saw anything sexual, and three times McQueary said no, according to the source."

The nephrologist wouldn't have a reason to protect Sandusky and fail to report a rape. This could cause him to lose his medical license (8 years of college + 4 years of internal medicine residency + 2 years of nephrology fellowship training. That is 14 years of college and specialized training that could be lost and he appears to be under retirement age. Nope. Didn't happen.)

Also remember that this physician is a family friend and colleague of McQueary's dad, but he testified against McQueary if Sara's unnamed source is correct.

I actually think it's a lot of mincing words about what McQueary saw or what people were told he saw. If that doctor testified against McQueary, then I would look into that guy's connection to Second Mile.

He knew that Jerry was in the shower alone with a naked boy - that should be damning enough all by itself, and enough for any medical doctor to contact authorities.

And McQueary knew they were in there because of sexual sounds he was hearing, not between two adults, but an adult and a child. Any doctor worth his salt, whether McQueary's father or Dr. Dranov should have been worried about the child and not their reputations or that of Penn State.

But you know, as we have seen every day in this case, human nature and fear kick in and people forget every oath they ever took, including "first do no harm," that little promise doctors make called the Hippocratic Oath. *sarcasm*

"Playing" with a young naked boy in a shower can't be misconstrued too many ways, but if that Dr. wants to play word games about it he can. I don't think it will change Jerry's fate one iota.

BigCat
12-12-2011, 12:53 AM
I think Sara Ganim has a unreliable unnamed source or McQueary changed his story after he told the family friend that he didn't see penetration.

"Dranov told grand jurors that he asked McQueary three times if he saw anything sexual, and three times McQueary said no, according to the source."

The nephrologist wouldn't have a reason to protect Sandusky and fail to report a rape. This could cause him to lose his medical license (8 years of college + 4 years of internal medicine residency + 2 years of nephrology fellowship training. That is 14 years of college and specialized training that could be lost and he appears to be under retirement age. Nope. Didn't happen.)

Also remember that this physician is a family friend and colleague of McQueary's dad, but he testified against McQueary if Sara's unnamed source is correct.

Well, if the doctor lied, and I'm not saying he did, his motivation wouldn't have been to protect Sandusky. His reason would have been a desire to avoid living in infamy as the man who brought down Joe Paterno and Penn State football. I know reasonable people would say that it was Sandusky who brought down Paterno; however, McQueary is staying in whereabouts unknown for his own protection and victim one was bullied out of his school. There are alot of unreasonable people out there. And it should be pointed that those two individuals are reluctant martyrs. If it hadn't been for the stubborn insistence of victim one's mother to report Sandusky, he may have never been charged.

I would go so far as to say that the more credentialed, the more respectable, the more wealthy people involved in the drama were less likely to take any action that could potentially damage the Penn State/Second Mile Combine than were the baser sorts, e.g., a graduate assistant, a janitor, or a single mom. JMO.

Pensfan
12-12-2011, 01:11 AM
I actually think it's a lot of mincing words about what McQueary saw or what people were told he saw. If that doctor testified against McQueary, then I would look into that guy's connection to Second Mile.

He knew that Jerry was in the shower alone with a naked boy - that should be damning enough all by itself, and enough for any medical doctor to contact authorities.

And McQueary knew they were in there because of sexual sounds he was hearing, not between two adults, but an adult and a child. Any doctor worth his salt, whether McQueary's father or Dr. Dranov should have been worried about the child and not their reputations or that of Penn State.

But you know, as we have seen every day in this case, human nature and fear kick in and people forget every oath they ever took, including "first do no harm," that little promise doctors make called the Hippocratic Oath. *sarcasm*

"Playing" with a young naked boy in a shower can't be misconstrued too many ways, but if that Dr. wants to play word games about it he can. I don't think it will change Jerry's fate one iota.

I don't think that doctor has any reason to risk fourteen years of college and training to help a child rapist. I think he told what he remembered and it likely will match with McQueary's dad's statement because they were listening to the account together. Here is how his testimony differs from what McQueary provided (if Sara's unnamed witness is accurate).

The physician said:
"McQueary heard "sex sounds" and the shower running, and a young boy stuck his head around the corner of the shower stall, peering at McQueary as an adult arm reached around his waist and pulled him back out of view.
Seconds later, Sandusky left the shower in a towel.

That account is different from the hand-written statement obtained by The Patriot-News that McQueary provided for investigators when he was interviewed in 2010.

It’s also different than the summary of his grand jury testimony in the 23-page initial grand jury presentment.

In both of those accounts, McQueary says he witnessed Sandusky sodomizing a boy as he stood with his hands against a shower wall.
McQueary says the pair turned and looked at him before he left.

However, Dranov told grand jurors that he asked McQueary three times if he saw anything sexual, and three times McQueary said no, according to the source.
http://www.pennlive.com/midstate/index.ssf/2011/12/another_version_of_mike_mcquea.html


This discrepancy isn't going to allow Jerry to go free, but he might not be charged with this one act of involuntary deviant sexual contact.

Pensfan
12-12-2011, 01:26 AM
Well, if the doctor lied, and I'm not saying he did, his motivation wouldn't have been to protect Sandusky. His reason would have been a desire to avoid living in infamy as the man who brought down Joe Paterno and Penn State football. I know reasonable people would say that it was Sandusky who brought down Paterno; however, McQueary is staying in whereabouts unknown for his own protection and victim one was bullied out of his school. There are alot of unreasonable people out there. And it should be pointed that those two individuals are reluctant martyrs. If it hadn't been for the stubborn insistence of victim one's mother to report Sandusky, he may have never been charged.

I would go so far as to say that the more credentialed, the more respectable, the more wealthy people involved in the drama were less likely to take any action that could potentially damage the Penn State/Second Mile Combine than were the baser sorts, e.g., a graduate assistant, a janitor, or a single mom. JMO.
BBM
That was a dumb rumor. McQueary's dad stated that Mike was out of town for one week on a recruiting trip (that is his job and it is high school football playoff time). He was interviewed briefly on his home's porch on Nov. 15 or 16.
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/942452-mike-mcqueary-cbs-interview-video-watch-the-most-overhyped-event-in-tv-history
http://espn.go.com/college-football/story/_/id/7238963/penn-state-nittany-lions-scandal-mike-mcqueary-stopped-alleged-assault-source-says

ThoughtFox
12-12-2011, 03:02 AM
I don't think that doctor has any reason to risk fourteen years of college and training to help a child rapist.

I agree with BigCat - it's actually the opposite.

Men with so much to lose - a respected career in medicine - just didn't want the heat that came with pointing at someone with close ties to Penn State and Paterno.

The reason why is obvious - just watch the video of the riots when Paterno was fired. Then imagine all that anger directed straight at you.

A respected doctor with all that education might be scared of losing his patients for one thing. He might be afraid that people would shun him, or threaten his family. He might be afriad he would have no social life.

Or maybe he was just a football fan and wanted to do old Jerry a favor. I don't know. However, I don't see doctors as having higher morals or standards than any other people involved in this sad story. They could be just as flawed as anybody else.

ETA: You could fill in the blank with anyone's name - Paterno, Schultz, Curley, anyone from Second Mile, etc...

Why would _______, a well-respected _______, want to risk his higher education and his career as a _______ for the sake of Jerry Sanddusky?

Concerned Papa
12-12-2011, 03:08 AM
I don't think that doctor has any reason to risk fourteen years of college and training to help a child rapist. I think he told what he remembered and it likely will match with McQueary's dad's statement because they were listening to the account together. Here is how his testimony differs from what McQueary provided (if Sara's unnamed witness is accurate).

The physician said:
"McQueary heard "sex sounds" and the shower running, and a young boy stuck his head around the corner of the shower stall, peering at McQueary as an adult arm reached around his waist and pulled him back out of view.
Seconds later, Sandusky left the shower in a towel.

That account is different from the hand-written statement obtained by The Patriot-News that McQueary provided for investigators when he was interviewed in 2010.

It’s also different than the summary of his grand jury testimony in the 23-page initial grand jury presentment.

In both of those accounts, McQueary says he witnessed Sandusky sodomizing a boy as he stood with his hands against a shower wall.
McQueary says the pair turned and looked at him before he left.

However, Dranov told grand jurors that he asked McQueary three times if he saw anything sexual, and three times McQueary said no, according to the source.
http://www.pennlive.com/midstate/index.ssf/2011/12/another_version_of_mike_mcquea.html


This discrepancy isn't going to allow Jerry to go free, but he might not be charged with this one act of involuntary deviant sexual contact.

IF this doctor really did, in fact, testify this to the grand jury:

Dranov told grand jurors that he asked McQueary three times if he saw anything sexual, and three times McQueary said no.

while McQueary testified to this:

He witnessed Sandusky sodomizing a boy as he stood with his hands against a shower wall.

McQueary says the pair turned and looked at him before he left.

How could the grand jury say THIS regarding McQueary's testimony?:

http://i941.photobucket.com/albums/ad257/Papa813_bucket/McQuearyCredible.jpg

IDK what this doctor is up to, and I have no idea why he would "risk fourteen years of college and training to help a child rapist", but I don't see how what he's saying is going to help anyone other than Sandusky.

It's certainly not gonna help Victim #2 find justice for being raped in the shower.

ThoughtFox
12-12-2011, 03:32 AM
Seriously, if this Doctor is only speaking up to discredit McQueary at the present time, he should be careful. They might suddenly want to look at his bank account because they think he's a paid-off witness. LE knows that Jerry has been reaching out to people - why not this guy?

Either that or Jerry has some dirt on him and is blackmailing him with it (which wouldn't surprise me at all).

Pensfan
12-12-2011, 07:42 AM
I agree with BigCat - it's actually the opposite.

Men with so much to lose - a respected career in medicine - just didn't want the heat that came with pointing at someone with close ties to Penn State and Paterno.

The reason why is obvious - just watch the video of the riots when Paterno was fired. Then imagine all that anger directed straight at you.

A respected doctor with all that education might be scared of losing his patients for one thing. He might be afraid that people would shun him, or threaten his family. He might be afriad he would have no social life.

Or maybe he was just a football fan and wanted to do old Jerry a favor. I don't know. However, I don't see doctors as having higher morals or standards than any other people involved in this sad story. They could be just as flawed as anybody else.

ETA: You could fill in the blank with anyone's name - Paterno, Schultz, Curley, anyone from Second Mile, etc...

Why would _______, a well-respected _______, want to risk his higher education and his career as a _______ for the sake of Jerry Sanddusky?

That is a strawman, but I'll respond. Shultz, Curley, Spanier will all find other jobs with their education and Paterno is 84 and doesn't need a job. If a doctor becomes a felon, he can never find another "doctor" job because he will never have a medical license again.

Notice that none of my posts stated that because this colleague of Mike McQueary's dad was a physician that he had higher morals. My argument states that he didn't lie because he had everything to lose (14 years of college and training).




Go back and watch and this supposedly frightening "riot" which was 30 bad kids who overturned one new truck and pulled down a street sign/light post and approx. 2000 "Sunday drivers" (gawkers) watching the mostly obnoxious shenanigans.

My husband and I nervously followed the twitters because one son lives very close to College Ave. After we started reading the twitters, we became bored and went to sleep. One seasoned newsman on the scene posted:

Doyel: But I’ll say this. Nicest rioters ever. They keep bumping me – and apologizing.
http://generationysports.com/?p=11959
http://twitter.com/?photo_id=1#!/Ben_Jones88/status/134123872894189568

Here is a group of really scary Penn State "rioters" planking during the "riot".
http://www.buzzfeed.com/jpmoore/penn-state-students-plank-amidst-their-riot


Don't forget to mention that on the following night there were 10,000 kids who went to a candlelight vigil for the victims and began to collect funds to help the victims.
http://www.sbnation.com/ncaa-football/2011/11/11/2555836/penn-state-candlelight-vigil-photos

Pensfan
12-12-2011, 07:54 AM
Seriously, if this Doctor is only speaking up to discredit McQueary at the present time, he should be careful. They might suddenly want to look at his bank account because they think he's a paid-off witness. LE knows that Jerry has been reaching out to people - why not this guy?

Either that or Jerry has some dirt on him and is blackmailing him with it (which wouldn't surprise me at all).
Nephrologists are in extremely short supply and earning over $400,000/year. This physician very likely doesn't need money. He likely needs vacation time and two other nephrologists to share night and weekend call with him. These not items that Sandusky can provided for him, but believe what you want.

Dr.Fessel
12-12-2011, 09:50 AM
Nephrologists are in extremely short supply and earning over $400,000/year. This physician very likely doesn't need money. He likely needs vacation time and two other nephrologists to share night and weekend call with him. These not items that Sandusky can provided for him, but believe what you want.

I wonder why this dr. was called in to consult about this matter? Wasn't like it was some rare brain surgery you had to get opinions on.

Quiche
12-12-2011, 10:00 AM
Sandusky "dreading" court date: lawyer

CBS News)

At least five alleged victims in the Penn State sex abuse scandal are set to tell their stories in court for the first time Tuesday.

Former assistant football coach Jerry Sandusky will be there, too, to hear their testimony -- and his lawyer, Joe Amendola, says Sandusky is "dreading" the court date.

"And I'm sure, you can imagine, he's going to have to sit in a court room with a couple hundred people -- I understand it's going to be filled to capacity, including members of his family, and friends -- who are going to listen to these young men say horrific things occurred between them and Jerry," Amendola said.

more at link

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-500202_162-57341173/sandusky-dreading-court-date-lawyer/

Well, good old Jer seemed to enjoy sex in public places-- he ought to do just fine, right? Nah, I don't think this particular foray is in his chosen repertoire. Too bad, so sad. :violin:

Dr.Fessel
12-12-2011, 10:17 AM
Sandusky "dreading" court date: lawyer

CBS News)

At least five alleged victims in the Penn State sex abuse scandal are set to tell their stories in court for the first time Tuesday.

Former assistant football coach Jerry Sandusky will be there, too, to hear their testimony -- and his lawyer, Joe Amendola, says Sandusky is "dreading" the court date.

"And I'm sure, you can imagine, he's going to have to sit in a court room with a couple hundred people -- I understand it's going to be filled to capacity, including members of his family, and friends -- who are going to listen to these young men say horrific things occurred between them and Jerry," Amendola said.

more at link

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-500202_162-57341173/sandusky-dreading-court-date-lawyer/

Well, good old Jer seemed to enjoy sex in public places-- he ought to do just fine, right? Nah, I don't think this particular foray is in his chosen repertoire. Too bad, so sad. :violin:

I really think Jerry is the kind of monster who will get excited hearing the boys tell what he did. He will have a hard time not smiling. I hope a victim points it out.

Concerned Papa
12-12-2011, 10:55 AM
That is a strawman, but I'll respond. Shultz, Curley, Spanier will all find other jobs with their education and Paterno is 84 and doesn't need a job. If a doctor becomes a felon, he can never find another "doctor" job because he will never have a medical license again.

Notice that none of my posts stated that because this colleague of Mike McQueary's dad was a physician that he had higher morals. My argument states that he didn't lie because he had everything to lose (14 years of college and training).




Go back and watch and this supposedly frightening "riot" which was 30 bad kids who overturned one new truck and pulled down a street sign/light post and approx. 2000 "Sunday drivers" (gawkers) watching the mostly obnoxious shenanigans.

My husband and I nervously followed the twitters because one son lives very close to College Ave. After we started reading the twitters, we became bored and went to sleep. One seasoned newsman on the scene posted:

Doyel: But I’ll say this. Nicest rioters ever. They keep bumping me – and apologizing.
http://generationysports.com/?p=11959
http://twitter.com/?photo_id=1#!/Ben_Jones88/status/134123872894189568

Here is a group of really scary Penn State "rioters" planking during the "riot".
http://www.buzzfeed.com/jpmoore/penn-state-students-plank-amidst-their-riot


Don't forget to mention that on the following night there were 10,000 kids who went to a candlelight vigil for the victims and began to collect funds to help the victims.
http://www.sbnation.com/ncaa-football/2011/11/11/2555836/penn-state-candlelight-vigil-photos

Pen, I agree that the "riot" was blown out of proportion. I also don't want anyone to think that any of my comments are meant to be derrogotory in any manner to Penn State or it's students or alumni in general. If I understand correctly, you seem to be offering the premise that this doctor wouldn't lie because of all he has to lose. I don't know what this doctor did or didn't say to the grand jury, but I do know what the grand jury said in their report.

They didn't even mention this doctor!

Doesn't it stand to reason that a grand jury would place considerable weight in a medical doctor's testimony that drastically impeached a grad student's testimony?

If this doctor testified that he asked McQueary three times if he saw anything sexual, and three times McQueary said no, why did the grand jury give such a glowing endorsement of the veracity of McQueary's testimony?

If this doctor testified to the grand jury that, three times, he asked McQueary and, three times, McQueary said he saw NO RAPE and NOTHING SEXUAL, how and why did they bring criminal charges against Schultz and Curley?

Wise Old Owl
12-12-2011, 11:02 AM
Sandusky "dreading" court date: lawyer

CBS News)

At least five alleged victims in the Penn State sex abuse scandal are set to tell their stories in court for the first time Tuesday.

Former assistant football coach Jerry Sandusky will be there, too, to hear their testimony -- and his lawyer, Joe Amendola, says Sandusky is "dreading" the court date.

"And I'm sure, you can imagine, he's going to have to sit in a court room with a couple hundred people -- I understand it's going to be filled to capacity, including members of his family, and friends -- who are going to listen to these young men say horrific things occurred between them and Jerry," Amendola said.

more at link

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-500202_162-57341173/sandusky-dreading-court-date-lawyer/

Well, good old Jer seemed to enjoy sex in public places-- he ought to do just fine, right? Nah, I don't think this particular foray is in his chosen repertoire. Too bad, so sad. :violin:


Any word if there will be cameras? Will it be live streamed anywhere?

concentric
12-12-2011, 11:23 AM
Any word if there will be cameras? Will it be live streamed anywhere?

Good questions. We really have to question who would benefit from keeping this a courtroom closed to public view. I would be willing to bet that the victims who have been silenced for so long by shame and mental anguish might want to be heard. Whereas, the perpetrator(s) and their defenders would want to maintain control of what is said by the victims.

Perhaps the media should find out.

Oftentimes, those who are seeking to cover up the crimes, will use "protecting the victims" as an excuse.

Any opinions?

Mamabear1963
12-12-2011, 11:27 AM
Any word if there will be cameras? Will it be live streamed anywhere?

Cameras are not allowed in PA courts...reporters will be able to report during breaks.

Wise Old Owl
12-12-2011, 11:30 AM
I think that just the "subject matter" alone would be enough to close the courtroom to cameras. As it should be. I know if one of my kids were a victim that was going to testify - I would fight tooth and nail to "shut off" any cameras in there.

JMHO

Reader
12-12-2011, 11:52 AM
Shultz and Curley are charged with perjury because they lied and said that McQueary didn't suggest that anything sexual was occurring in the shower. They told the grand jury that McQueary only reported horseplay in the shower and that it made him (McQueary) feel uncomfortable. It now appears that several people testified that McQueary told them that he thought something perverse was happening because he sexual heard noises in the shower, not that he witnessed a rape. (This is based on Sara's unnamed source which might not be credible.)


The time is coming to find out the truth of it all...tomorrow!

J. J. in Phila
12-12-2011, 11:55 AM
Cameras are not allowed in PA courts...reporters will be able to report during breaks.

Thank God! I hate seeing this happen live. No, I don't mean that Sandusky should not be tried or that he's innocent. I just hate seeing what has happened to Centre County and Penn State (and yes, the latter was brought on by itself).

This was a place where I went to school, once called one of the most beautiful places in Pennsylvania. Now it's Central Pennsylvania Gothic. :(

My pain is nowhere near the victims, but my childhood, adolescence, and young adulthood are tainted in my memory by this.

Reader
12-12-2011, 12:06 PM
I actually think it's a lot of mincing words about what McQueary saw or what people were told he saw. If that doctor testified against McQueary, then I would look into that guy's connection to Second Mile.

He knew that Jerry was in the shower alone with a naked boy - that should be damning enough all by itself, and enough for any medical doctor to contact authorities.

And McQueary knew they were in there because of sexual sounds he was hearing, not between two adults, but an adult and a child. Any doctor worth his salt, whether McQueary's father or Dr. Dranov should have been worried about the child and not their reputations or that of Penn State.

But you know, as we have seen every day in this case, human nature and fear kick in and people forget every oath they ever took, including "first do no harm," that little promise doctors make called the Hippocratic Oath. *sarcasm*

"Playing" with a young naked boy in a shower can't be misconstrued too many ways, but if that Dr. wants to play word games about it he can. I don't think it will change Jerry's fate one iota.


Exactly!!! Totally agree....even if there is some doubt cast upon McQueary's testimony, it won't matter, he only got the ball rolling.

There are now too many actual VICTIMS that will testify for JS to wiggle out of these charges like he has been able to do before, with the help of the ones who covered up.

He forgot about the fact the boys would grow up, living in his dream, and now they are coming back to haunt him!

Reader
12-12-2011, 12:19 PM
Thank God! I hate seeing this happen live. No, I don't mean that Sandusky should not be tried or that he's innocent. I just hate seeing what has happened to Centre County and Penn State (and yes, the latter was brought on by itself).

This was a place where I went to school, once called one of the most beautiful places in Pennsylvania. Now it's Central Pennsylvania Gothic. :(

My pain is nowhere near the victims, but my childhood, adolescence, and young adulthood are tainted in my memory by this.

I have read about a lot of the people who went to Penn St. or grew up in the area, even the people from JS's hometown, expressing these same feelings.

That is understandable but you and others are not to blame for what one person did and a few others covered up.

Also, please check back to post #86 that explains what is allowed in court and says a full court transcript will be posted on the county link as soon as possible.

Reader
12-12-2011, 12:44 PM
AP IMPACT: PSU culture explained away Sandusky

http://centurylink.net/news/read.php?rip_id=%3CD9RIRA380%40news.ap.org%3E&ps=1013

STATE COLLEGE, Pa. (AP) — The warning signs were there for more than a decade, disturbing indicators that Penn State assistant football coach Jerry Sandusky was breaching boundaries with young boys — or maybe worse.

Yet the university's top administrators kept allowing, even encouraging, Sandusky to invite some of those boys into campus sports buildings — locker rooms, showers, a sauna and a swimming pool — where prosecutors now say he fondled, molested and sexually assaulted some of the most vulnerable in the place known as Happy Valley.

Too many, from the university president to department heads to janitors, knew of troubling behavior by this revered, longtime coach who founded a charity for children with hardscrabble backgrounds. But at this school whose sports programs vow "success with honor," the circle of knowledge was kept very limited and very private.

Year after year, Penn State missed opportunity after opportunity to stop Sandusky. Secrecy ruled, and reaction to complaints of improper sexual behavior was to remain silent, minimize or explain away — all part of a deep-rooted reflex to protect the sacred football program.
--------

Prosecutors say the only thing that stopped Sandusky, who retired a year after a 1998 allegation was not prosecuted, was when he was accused elsewhere, a decade later, of sexually abusing a freshman at a local high school where Sandusky had volunteered to help coach the football team.


Much more at link...11 pages.....

Pensfan
12-12-2011, 12:50 PM
Pen, I agree that the "riot" was blown out of proportion. I also don't want anyone to think that any of my comments are meant to be derrogotory in any manner to Penn State or it's students or alumni in general. If I understand correctly, you seem to be offering the premise that this doctor wouldn't lie because of all he has to lose. I don't know what this doctor did or didn't say to the grand jury, but I do know what the grand jury said in their report.

They didn't even mention this doctor!

Doesn't it stand to reason that a grand jury would place considerable weight in a medical doctor's testimony that drastically impeached a grad student's testimony?

If this doctor testified that he asked McQueary three times if he saw anything sexual, and three times McQueary said no, why did the grand jury give such a glowing endorsement of the veracity of McQueary's testimony?

If this doctor testified to the grand jury that, three times, he asked McQueary and, three times, McQueary said he saw NO RAPE and NOTHING SEXUAL, how and why did they bring criminal charges against Schultz and Curley?

I really feel that the only logical conclusion is that Sara's secret unnamed source is likely wrong again (like the Sue Pa swimming story). :)

ThoughtFox
12-12-2011, 01:36 PM
That is a strawman, but I'll respond. Shultz, Curley, Spanier will all find other jobs with their education

Maybe - I wouldn't put money on that. Their resumes aren't what they once were.

Notice that none of my posts stated that because this colleague of Mike McQueary's dad was a physician that he had higher morals. My argument states that he didn't lie because he had everything to lose (14 years of college and training).

How many collective years did Paterno, Curley, and Spanier have between them? Alot more than fourteen! And they remained silent why? Because they had so much to lose. What's sauce for them is sauce for the doctor.

Go back and watch and this supposedly frightening "riot" which was 30 bad kids who overturned one new truck and pulled down a street sign/light post and approx. 2000 "Sunday drivers" (gawkers) watching the mostly obnoxious shenanigans.

We were talking about why people stay silent or why a doctor would lie for Jerry. I think fear of overreactions such as that might be one reason.

wfgodot
12-12-2011, 01:57 PM
A trio of SportsbyBrooks tweets just now of the "I told you so" variety:
SPORTSbyBROOKS SPORTSbyBROOKS
SbB 11/15 Tweet: Source close to current PSU Trustee told me they may have to keep Bradley (as coach) b/c 'he knows where bodies are buried'
5 minutes ago
---
SPORTSbyBROOKS SPORTSbyBROOKS
After I Tweeted that, I was mocked & ridiculed, ppl saying PSU would NEVER DREAM of doing that. Whose laughing now? http://bit.ly/upM6oZ
2 minutes ago
---
SPORTSbyBROOKS SPORTSbyBROOKS
The current PSU AD is a well-known cog in Paterno's rusted-out crony machine, and he wants to hire Bradley as permanent coach - right now.
1 minute ago
http://twitter.com/#!/SPORTSbyBROOKS

Reader
12-12-2011, 02:35 PM
How a Broward reporter beat journalism’s giants
BY ADAM H. BEASLEY The Miami Herald

http://www.miamiherald.com/2011/11/11/2498104/how-a-broward-reporter-beat-journalisms.html


.........Throughout, Ganim has consistently beaten her more experienced (and better funded) peers in the national media, earning their respect and praise.

• Sports Illustrated soccer writer Grant Wahl wrote on Twitter: “No journalist has done a better job covering the Penn State story.”

• Said Dan Wetzel of Yahoo Sports: “Tremendous reporting on missed opportunities and conflicting stories at Penn St.”


She's also being recommended for a Pulitzer Prize and those are not given lightly.

wfgodot
12-12-2011, 02:51 PM
Lawyer: No plea talks on eve of Sandusky hearing (http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/US_PENN_STATE_ABUSE?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT) (AP)
PHILADELPHIA (AP) -- On the eve of a key court hearing, Jerry Sandusky's lawyer said that no plea negotiations have been held and that the former Penn State assistant football coach is looking forward to facing his accusers in the child sex-abuse case.

As many as 10 young men could testify in public for the first time at the hearing, which is expected to last at least a full day Tuesday and perhaps spill into a second day.
---
full article at link above

Pensfan
12-12-2011, 03:31 PM
I don't understand why a judge is needed to determine if a case should go to trial after a grand jury heard the victims and decided that the case should go to trial. In sexual assault cases, this is cruel to the victims. Does this same procedure occur in other states? TIA

Reader
12-12-2011, 04:20 PM
I don't understand why a judge is needed to determine if a case should go to trial after a grand jury heard the victims and decided that the case should go to trial. In sexual assault cases, this is cruel to the victims. Does this same procedure occur in other states? TIA


Yes, it does.

Reader
12-12-2011, 05:12 PM
Judge rules to let reporters tweet, text and email from Jerry Sandusky preliminary hearing

http://www.pennlive.com/midstate/index.ssf/2011/12/judge_rules_to_let_reporters_t.html


.........The judge who first ruled to ban all transmission from the courtroom changed his mind this afternoon and decided to allow credentialed media to use the Internet.

Dr.Fessel
12-12-2011, 05:24 PM
Here is another thing I would like to know about this Dr. who became part of this story with McQueary and his Dad for some strange reason.

Why didn't he go to the cops when he heard there was a naked 50 year old man in the shower late at night with his hands on a naked little boy?

Can't wait to hear his explanation for that.

Dr.Fessel
12-12-2011, 05:27 PM
I thought it was really really strange when McQueary ran to his Dad instead of calling the police. I think it is really strange too this Dr. got involved in it. What was his purpose or mission for hearing the story?

Pensfan
12-12-2011, 05:57 PM
I thought it was really really strange when McQueary ran to his Dad instead of calling the police. I think it is really strange too this Dr. got involved in it. What was his purpose or mission for hearing the story?
Good point. I can only come up with these possibilities. What do you think?

1. The doc is an extremely close friend and was at McQueary's dad home when Mike arrived to ask for guidance.
2. Mike gave his dad a preview of what he needed to discuss. The dad sensed the enormity of the situation and called a non-family member to corroborate his son's "testimony" just in case it was ever called into question.
3. Sara's secret unnamed source is wrong.

There are many possibility for why McQueary's dad thought his son's "testimony" might need a corroborating witness. Maybe there is some reason people might not believe McQueary's accusation was accurate (besides the fact that Sandusky was viewed a "great guy who supposedly helped lots of children)?

Mamabear1963
12-12-2011, 06:07 PM
Can someone post the links for tweets for tomorrows hearing

BigCat
12-12-2011, 06:38 PM
Another possibility is that McQueary and the doctor's testimony matched. McQueary could have admitted telling the doctor only the partial truth and given a reason for it. Perhaps the grand jury found McQueary forthcoming and credible as a witness. The bottom line is that neither the doctor nor the McQueary are charged with perjury. Curley and Schultz have been. There's a missing puzzle piece somewhere. Ganim's source may have been someone on Curley's and Schultz's defense. Of course it would make sense that they would only want information released that's favorable to their clients.

wfgodot
12-12-2011, 06:48 PM
SportsbyBrooks, interesting and provocative as ever:

SPORTSbyBROOKS SPORTSbyBROOKS
Son of current Chairman of Penn St Board of Trustees was longtime Second Mile active Board Member. Honored donor. bit.ly/ts9xGU
3 minutes ago
Here's SbB's linked story:

Incestuous Penn State Still Endangering Children (http://www.sportsbybrooks.com/incestuous-penn-state-still-endangers-children-29926) (sportsbybrooks.com)

1&2&3
12-12-2011, 09:53 PM
Some thing does not smell right in this story the doctor told. Personally, I could see the doctor telling a lie as he was asked for advice and did not want to put himself too close to knowing the real story in testifying. It is his word against the McQueary father and son and in this huge case, the grand jury has more to deal with than doctor friend's perjury. Can you imagine how the McQueary's feel as they hear the story coming out as to what the doctor said? Given it is the truth, if the reporter has it correct that is. Of course, it will be interesting to see what happens if the doctor has to testify at trial.

Concerned Papa
12-12-2011, 09:53 PM
Here is another thing I would like to know about this Dr. who became part of this story with McQueary and his Dad for some strange reason.

Why didn't he go to the cops when he heard there was a naked 50 year old man in the shower late at night with his hands on a naked little boy?

Can't wait to hear his explanation for that.

I just think the timing of this story is extremely odd.

I doubt there would be much disagreement that the most damning part of the grand jury report was the testimony of Mike McQueary. Without that testimony, Spainer would likely still be President of Penn State, JoePa would still be head coach, Shultz and Curley would have never been arrested and would still have their jobs. McQueary's testimony of witnessing a child being anally raped was the catalyst for their demise.

After all of the half baked interviews by Sandusky and his lawyer apparently blew up in their faces, SHAZAM!, less than 48 hrs before this monster is due in front of a judge, this doctor deal comes crawling out of the woodwork claiming the State's star witness lied to the grand jury! Talk about trying to create doubt!

Wonder where he's been since November 7th?

J. J. in Phila
12-12-2011, 10:03 PM
I just think the timing of this story is extremely odd.

I doubt there would be much disagreement that the most damning part of the grand jury report was the testimony of Mike McQueary. Without that testimony, Spainer would likely still be President of Penn State, JoePa would still be head coach, Shultz and Curley would have never been arrested and would still have their jobs. McQueary's testimony of witnessing a child being anally raped was the catalyst for their demise.

After all of the half baked interviews by Sandusky and his lawyer apparently blew up in their faces, SHAZAM!, less than 48 hrs before this monster is due in front of a judge, this doctor deal comes crawling out of the woodwork claiming the State's star witness lied to the grand jury! Talk about trying to create doubt!

Wonder where he's been since November 7th?

Paterno backed up McQueary's story in the grand jury. Further, it affects Shultz and Curley more than Sandusky.

Reader
12-12-2011, 10:16 PM
I don't understand why a judge is needed to determine if a case should go to trial after a grand jury heard the victims and decided that the case should go to trial. In sexual assault cases, this is cruel to the victims. Does this same procedure occur in other states? TIA

BUT actually, this grand jury decided, after questioning the witnesses, that JS should be charged and what the charges are.

The judge in the prelim hearing will decide if the prosecutors/DA have enough evidence on the charges to take the case to trial.

Concerned Papa
12-12-2011, 10:23 PM
Paterno backed up McQueary's story in the grand jury. Further, it affects Shultz and Curley more than Sandusky.

Each of them would have a greatly improved defensive position with McQueary's testimony being cast in doubt.

Reader
12-12-2011, 10:33 PM
Good point. I can only come up with these possibilities. What do you think?

1. The doc is an extremely close friend and was at McQueary's dad home when Mike arrived to ask for guidance.
2. Mike gave his dad a preview of what he needed to discuss. The dad sensed the enormity of the situation and called a non-family member to corroborate his son's "testimony" just in case it was ever called into question.
3. Sara's secret unnamed source is wrong.

There are many possibility for why McQueary's dad thought his son's "testimony" might need a corroborating witness. Maybe there is some reason people might not believe McQueary's accusation was accurate (besides the fact that Sandusky was viewed a "great guy who supposedly helped lots of children)?

OR

4. The unnamed source is lying to help Sandusky at his or his lawyer's request.

Pensfan
12-12-2011, 10:38 PM
I just think the timing of this story is extremely odd.

I doubt there would be much disagreement that the most damning part of the grand jury report was the testimony of Mike McQueary. Without that testimony, Spainer would likely still be President of Penn State, JoePa would still be head coach, Shultz and Curley would have never been arrested and would still have their jobs. McQueary's testimony of witnessing a child being anally raped was the catalyst for their demise.

After all of the half baked interviews by Sandusky and his lawyer apparently blew up in their faces, SHAZAM!, less than 48 hrs before this monster is due in front of a judge, this doctor deal comes crawling out of the woodwork claiming the State's star witness lied to the grand jury! Talk about trying to create doubt!

Wonder where he's been since November 7th?
Exactly! If this doc was part of the giant Penn State conspiracy (and had a giant glioma in his frontal lobe causing him to risk 14 years of college/training/medical license), he would have leaked this info immediately after the grand jury indictment to try to save Joe Pa's job/Sandusky/Penn State.

If the doc was inclined to support his friend's son, he would not have contradicted McQueary's statement that no rape was witnessed.

I think Sara needs to find new unnamed sources because she may have been played by Sandusky's defense.

Reader
12-12-2011, 11:21 PM
A legal spectacle takes shape in Happy Valley

http://www.philly.com/philly/news/breaking/20111212_A_legal_spectacle_takes_shape_in_Happy_Va lley.html?cmpid=124488469


BELLEFONTE – The circus came to town Monday.

Hundreds of reporters from news outlets from across the country, dozens of interested attorneys, and run-of-the-mill gawkers descended on this small Victorian hamlet for one of the most highly anticipated legal spectacles the community has ever hosted.


More at link...

J. J. in Phila
12-12-2011, 11:32 PM
A legal spectacle takes shape in Happy Valley

http://www.philly.com/philly/news/breaking/20111212_A_legal_spectacle_takes_shape_in_Happy_Va lley.html?cmpid=124488469


BELLEFONTE – The circus came to town Monday.

Hundreds of reporters from news outlets from across the country, dozens of interested attorneys, and run-of-the-mill gawkers descended on this small Victorian hamlet for one of the most highly anticipated legal spectacles the community has ever hosted.


More at link...

Sad, because it such a beautiful place, the idyllic small town. :(

mahmoo
12-12-2011, 11:50 PM
Sad, because it such a beautiful place, the idyllic small town. :(
Let is be a lesson to all of us.....you NEVER really know what's going on behind closed doors....anywhere at any time. And, as my sig line reflects.....even though you THINK you know someone.....often times, you don't really.

J. J. in Phila
12-12-2011, 11:56 PM
Let is be a lesson to all of us.....you NEVER really know what's going on behind closed doors....anywhere at any time. And, as my sig line reflects.....even though you THINK you know someone.....often times, you don't really.


True. I use to like in the general area; I went to school there. I blog about the missing district attorney. This really has me shaken.

HMSHood
12-12-2011, 11:57 PM
Let is be a lesson to all of us.....you NEVER really know what's going on behind closed doors....anywhere at any time. And, as my sig line reflects.....even though you THINK you know someone.....often times, you don't really.

Exactly. We just see the person as he or she present themselves as.

Pensfan
12-13-2011, 12:03 AM
Sad, because it such a beautiful place, the idyllic small town. :(
This is very disturbing. I had hoped that this little town, that has nothing to do with Sandusky, would get some positive press. The articles describing where Sandusky’s hearing will occur gives a purposefully wretched description.

“In a cavernous old courtroom with creaky wooden pews for seats and a floor that slopes downhill”

The reporter conveniently forgot to mention that the Bellefonte courthouse was constructed in 1805 and that is why it has magnificent wooden floors that have sloped (over 206 years).



Bellefonte is a tiny, beautiful town with 360 RESTORED Victorian homes/buildings on the National Historic Registry including the courthouse with the creaking, sloping floor.

Beautiful Victorian homes here:
http://www.galenfrysinger.com/victorian_houses_bellefonte_pa.htm
http://www.galenfrysinger.com/bellefonte.htm

Two-hundred-year old courthouse:
http://www.bellefontearts.org/images/Fred_Smith/Fred_Smith_diamond/courthouse2.GIF

http://victorianbellefonte.com/
http://www.ksbw.com/sports/29980846/detail.html#ixzz1gO0RC8mQ

mahmoo
12-13-2011, 12:41 AM
True. I use to like in the general area; I went to school there. I blog about the missing district attorney. This really has me shaken.
I've quietly followed Gricar's case......I understand why you're shaken. It IS odd how this Sandusky/Penn State case coincides so very closely to the Gricar case. Would you have ever in a million years thought Gricar's case would be tied to a case like this and a scandal this large? These types of cases are difficult to follow for so many reasons but to have such close ties makes them even more difficult.

Pensfan
12-13-2011, 12:46 AM
I've quietly followed Gricar's case......I understand why you're shaken. It IS odd how this Sandusky/Penn State case coincides so very closely to the Gricar case. Would you have ever in a million years thought Gricar's case would be tied to a case like this and a scandal this large? These types of cases are difficult to follow for so many reasons but to have such close ties makes them even more difficult.
Many, including JJ, who has spent years studying Gricar's disappearance, believe Gricar may have walked away from his life.

I personally will cringe witnessing outsiders write disparaging comments about a nice little city, Bellefonte. I hope it snows buckets on all the reporters if they can't mentally separate lovely Bellefonte, PA from the Sandusky putridness.

http://media.centredaily.com/smedia/2011/12/06/08/33/wC9Eg.AuSt.42.jpeg

mahmoo
12-13-2011, 01:03 AM
Many, including JJ, who has spent years studying Gricar's disappearance, believe Gricar may have away from his life.

I personally will cringe witnessing outsiders write disparaging comments about a nice little city, Bellefonte. I hope it snows buckets on reporters if they can't separate lovely Bellefonte, PA from the Sandusky putridness.

Mmmm......a word was missing from your quote. Can I fill in the blank? "Gricar may have ran away from his life?..... It's hard to not wonder now isn't it?

Personally.....I don't have one disparaging remark about anyone/anything from that seemingly beautiful, quaint area other than Sandusky. I bet the snow is beautiful. fun and smells great.

J. J. in Phila
12-13-2011, 01:14 AM
Many, including JJ, who has spent years studying Gricar's disappearance, believe Gricar may have walked away from his life.


I've never been too sure that Mr. Gricar (RFG) walked away, though I still think it is more likely than not. Murder is still looming large.

I do know this. Up until November 4, 2011, everyone except me, was asking what possible motive RFG could have for walking away, especially those people who thought it was murder. Now, no one is.

I never wanted an answer to that question. Now, I fear that it will be answered.


I personally will cringe witnessing outsiders write disparaging comments about a nice little city, Bellefonte. I hope it snows buckets on all the reporters if they can't mentally separate lovely Bellefonte, PA from the Sandusky putridness.

http://media.centredaily.com/smedia/2011/12/06/08/33/wC9Eg.AuSt.42.jpeg

A beautiful, historic, small, and friendly town. The darkness spreads an engulfs it. Central Pennsylvania Gothic. :(

katydid23
12-13-2011, 01:24 AM
I've never been too sure that Mr. Gricar (RFG) walked away, though I still think it is more likely than not. Murder is still looming large.

I do know this. Up until November 4, 2011, everyone except me, was asking what possible motive RFG could have for walking away, especially those people who thought it was murder. Now, no one is.

I never wanted an answer to that question. Now, I fear that it will be answered.



A beautiful, historic, small, and friendly town. The darkness spreads an engulfs it. Central Pennsylvania Gothic. :(

I am not too familiar with the timeline of the Gricar case. How much time between the problems with Sandusky in Penn state and the time Gricar goes missing?

J. J. in Phila
12-13-2011, 01:30 AM
I am not too familiar with the timeline of the Gricar case. How much time between the problems with Sandusky in Penn state and the time Gricar goes missing?

A bit under seven years. RFG was planning to retire, however, at the end of 2005, and had announced it in January of 2004. He disappeared on 4/15/05.

epiphany
12-13-2011, 01:44 AM
I don't understand why a judge is needed to determine if a case should go to trial after a grand jury heard the victims and decided that the case should go to trial. In sexual assault cases, this is cruel to the victims. Does this same procedure occur in other states? TIA

Pennsylvania, unlike most states, doesn’t allow grand juries to directly indict suspects. Prosecutors must persuade a judge to allow the case to proceed to trial...

“The judge must accept as true the testimony of the prosecution witnesses,” he said. “It’s a bare minimum standard. They are overwhelmingly approved to go forward.”

Defense attorneys usually waive preliminary trials in order to avoid a surge in pre-trial press coverage. But Sandusky’s attorney, Joe Amendola — who has been criticized for allowing his client to sit for what turned out to be rambling and uncomfortable interviews with NBC and The New York Times — has insisted on the preliminary trial.

“It’s basically a chance for the defense to ask open-ended questions and get witnesses to lock into statements,” Harvey said. “It’s an opportunity for the defense to get discovery.”


http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/college/jerry-sandusky-accusers-ready-confront-hearing-child-sex-abuse-charges-article-1.990597#ixzz1gOVxI8Z9

katydid23
12-13-2011, 01:46 AM
A bit under seven years. RFG was planning to retire, however, at the end of 2005, and had announced it in January of 2004. He disappeared on 4/15/05.

That seems weird. Wouldn't he get a nice pension upon retirement? Why not just wait out the final year and get the pension, and then disappear somewhere and have the checks sent to a po box in paradise somewhere?

J. J. in Phila
12-13-2011, 01:57 AM
That seems weird. Wouldn't he get a nice pension upon retirement? Why not just wait out the final year and get the pension, and then disappear somewhere and have the checks sent to a po box in paradise somewhere?

Well, financially, his daughter got a lump sum that include both his contributions and the county contribution. If he had died, or disappeared, after retirement, she wouldn't get the county share.

We do have a Gricar thread, if you are interested in the specifics of the case.

BigCat
12-13-2011, 03:05 AM
Apparently Sandusky unofficially coached football at a college last year despite failing a background check:

HUNTINGDON, Pa. -- Jerry Sandusky continued to coach football at Juniata College despite being denied an official coaching position there, CBS 21 News Sports Director Jason Bristol has learned.

Two Juniata College football players tell CBS 21 News that Sandusky was actively involved with the Eagles program in 2010, even though his volunteer coaching application was rejected because a background check revealed he was being investigated at a Clinton County High School.

http://www.whptv.com/news/local/story/Sandusky-still-coaches-Juniata-College/GemajxS3mkGwHLfChNsgtw.cspx

Concerned Papa
12-13-2011, 04:33 AM
Apparently Sandusky unofficially coached football at a college last year despite failing a background check:

WTH?

"How do you not know he's here?" asked the second player in amazement. "It's not like the press box is some closed-off area. You just turn your head (around) and look up (into the windows)...you see all the coaches in the press box."

The players say Sandusky would wait in the press box until after the game and would leave once the stadium had cleared.

This is precisely why this animal does not need to be out on bail! I hope the judge at this morning's hearing is aware of this. It is in his discretion to revoke his bond and lock his azz up where he belongs.

Dr.Fessel
12-13-2011, 05:26 AM
Apparently Sandusky unofficially coached football at a college last year despite failing a background check:
Another College where football trumps all.

Dr.Fessel
12-13-2011, 05:44 AM
I just think the timing of this story is extremely odd.

I doubt there would be much disagreement that the most damning part of the grand jury report was the testimony of Mike McQueary. Without that testimony, Spainer would likely still be President of Penn State, JoePa would still be head coach, Shultz and Curley would have never been arrested and would still have their jobs. McQueary's testimony of witnessing a child being anally raped was the catalyst for their demise.

After all of the half baked interviews by Sandusky and his lawyer apparently blew up in their faces, SHAZAM!, less than 48 hrs before this monster is due in front of a judge, this doctor deal comes crawling out of the woodwork claiming the State's star witness lied to the grand jury! Talk about trying to create doubt!

Wonder where he's been since November 7th?

Just throwing this out there. I think the Dr. story broke after the tweets by the sports guy that Paterno is in really bad shape.

Dr.Fessel
12-13-2011, 06:06 AM
Good point. I can only come up with these possibilities. What do you think?

1. The doc is an extremely close friend and was at McQueary's dad home when Mike arrived to ask for guidance.
2. Mike gave his dad a preview of what he needed to discuss. The dad sensed the enormity of the situation and called a non-family member to corroborate his son's "testimony" just in case it was ever called into question.
3. Sara's secret unnamed source is wrong.

There are many possibility for why McQueary's dad thought his son's "testimony" might need a corroborating witness. Maybe there is some reason people might not believe McQueary's accusation was accurate (besides the fact that Sandusky was viewed a "great guy who supposedly helped lots of children)?

If they were planning on doing the right thing then there would be no reason to have a witness to his testimony. You simply call 911. If you have a legal question about what to do you call a lawyer.

The only time a witness to your testimony would mean anything to LE would be like in a criminal case where a lot of time past and LE doesn't know if you are telling the truth or not so they ask you did you tell anyone else this story?

It is like they knew this was going to be buried and wanted someone else to hear the story in case it every became unburied.

I tend to believe the story that they involved this DR. in it and McQueary told him something. The main reason I believe it is because the Dr. has had plenty of time to deny it and he has not. It has been all over the airwaves on every news station and not a peep out of him. The other reason I tend to believe it's true is there is only one person who can talk about what this Dr. said in the Grand Jury without the threat of jail and that is the Dr. or anyone he told the story too outside of the Grand Jury. If he told anyone that would leak this then it was probably the defense.

TobyWong*
12-13-2011, 06:14 AM
Just want to throw out some good karma to the victims testifying today! I'm nervous & proud of them. I cannot imagine how they are feeling today. I hope they feel strong and know we are all backing them.

Concerned Papa
12-13-2011, 06:31 AM
Just throwing this out there. I think the Dr. story broke after the tweets by the sports guy that Paterno is in really bad shape.

That's true, the tweets by Brooks were on December 7:

SPORTSbyBROOKS
I was told by Penn St athletic dept official tonight that Joe Paterno's health is in rapid decline.

SPORTSbyBROOKS
Penn St. source said, "Joe is a lot closer to dying soon than the public is aware. It is very bad."

SPORTSbyBROOKS
Penn State official said tonight Paterno is getting daily cancer treatments but those close to him fear "this may be his last Christmas."

The doctor story came out on this past Sunday, December 11.

As if having cancer with his health in rapid decline wasn't enough to keep JoePa far removed from these criminal proceedings, it was also reported Sunday that he fell and broke his pelvis! They won't let him out of the hospital!

Paterno, 84, was admitted to an undisclosed Pennsylvania hospital on Sunday morning and was in stable condition later in the day, the source said.

The fracture does not require surgery but Paterno will remain hospitalized to undergo a regimen of radiation and chemotherapy treatments for his previously diagnosed lung cancer, the source said.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/12/12/us-joepaterno-pelvis-idUSTRE7BA0VP20111212

That's some rotten luck for you. Now Sandusky's lawyer, who's chomping at the bit to go, won't be able to tear him up with his blistering narrative in cross examination!

Dr.Fessel
12-13-2011, 07:40 AM
When I first heard McQueary had to call his Dad the Physician Assitant to find out what to do it made me think there was something more to the story, maybe an injury . Now if the new story is true a Dr. was called in.

Where the heck is this victim? There should have been a trail the investigators could find.

Did McQueary tell the Grand Jury he did not see the boys face and this Dr. is saying he did see his face?

Tipstaff
12-13-2011, 07:43 AM
Seems the folks in Bellfonte are taking the trial and media event in stride and making the best of their fame. In this mornings TRIBUNE REVIEW locals are talking about their small town and their take on the trial,

'Jay Montgomery, owner and pharmacist at century-old Parrish Drugs, said he hopes people notice more than the courtroom. He pointed out the community's old, well-kept mansions and architecture as well as the natural spring that accounts for the town's name.

"I imagine a whole lot of people will come in town," said Montgomery, who has owned the drugstore for 45 years. "It should help the restaurants. And I bet all the bed-and-breakfasts are booked, the hotels and motels, too.'



Read more: Media crush hits small town for Sandusky hearing - Pittsburgh Tribune-Review http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/news/specialreports/pennstate/s_771714.html#ixzz1gPy56BTi

Dr.Fessel
12-13-2011, 08:16 AM
Live coverage outside the courthouse. Streaming live now. http://abclocal.go.com/wpvi/livenow?id=8465022

Dr.Fessel
12-13-2011, 08:16 AM
LOL the police on that video were swaying in sync. I keep waiting for them to break out in a dance.

Dr.Fessel
12-13-2011, 08:21 AM
Supposed to be reporter updates here. http://abclocal.go.com/wpvi/feature?section=news&id=8464166

Dr.Fessel
12-13-2011, 08:24 AM
PeterAlexander Peter Alexander
#BREAKING #Sandusky defense team adds "special legal advisor," Karl Rominger, PA-based attorney. #PSUCharges https://twitter.com/#!/PeterAlexander

Tipstaff
12-13-2011, 08:32 AM
LOL the police on that video were swaying in sync. I keep waiting for them to break out in a dance.

had to stop watching as I was getting seasick! :great:

momtective
12-13-2011, 08:32 AM
Just heard on HLN he waived his right to a preliminary hearing.

Dr.Fessel
12-13-2011, 08:38 AM
WoW something just happened. Sandusky just walked out of court, no hearing?

SuziQ
12-13-2011, 08:39 AM
Front page banner

http://www.foxnews.com/

Sandusky Waives Hearing Where Accusers Were to Testify, Advances Case Toward Trial

octobermoon
12-13-2011, 08:39 AM
What a chicken. Guess his lawyer was just blowing smoke. He should have to pay for all the expenses this town has put out for security. GRRRRR

momtective
12-13-2011, 08:40 AM
Hearing on HLN...one of two things going on here, either a plea deal in the works or just going straight to trial.

SuziQ
12-13-2011, 08:41 AM
I think Sandusky and his legal team figured the victim testimony would really hurt the case.

I really wonder if there is going to be a plea deal. I don't think Sandusky wants the world to hear what he did straight from the vics.

Tipstaff
12-13-2011, 08:42 AM
Sandusky and his lawyer blinked today!

Dr.Fessel
12-13-2011, 08:43 AM
I have a feeling he saw a witness there he did not think would be. I have a feeling there is one he thought was on his side but has been wearing a wire. IMO

SuziQ
12-13-2011, 08:43 AM
What a chicken. Guess his lawyer was just blowing smoke. He should have to pay for all the expenses this town has put out for security. GRRRRR

Alot of smoke. I thought he was supposed to clarify what really happened for those of us who prematurely convicted his client.

I am glad the vics didn't have to testify. But I bet their anxiety level was horrible though.

octobermoon
12-13-2011, 08:46 AM
Alot of smoke. I thought he was supposed to clarify what really happened for those of us who prematurely convicted his client.

I am glad the vics didn't have to testify. But I bet their anxiety level was horrible though.

Thank god for these brave men. I can't imagine the pressure they have been under. I think it stinks that old Jer waited until the last moment to waive this hearing. Ugh.

Dr.Fessel
12-13-2011, 08:52 AM
Sandusky and his lawyer said something when they came out like they were not allowed to........

Not sure what they said.

SuziQ
12-13-2011, 09:03 AM
What was the laughter about?

Former Penn State football coach Jerry Sandusky, who is accused of sexually abusing young boys, surprised a packed courtroom Tuesday by waiving his right to a preliminary hearing.
After Magistrate Judge Robert Scott asked Sandusky if he understood he was waiving certain rights, the former coach said yes, and the courtroom erupted in conversation and laughter. The judge admonished the crowd, and Sandusky and his attorney, Joe Amendola, left shortly afterward.
His arraignment is set for January 11

More at link

http://www.cnn.com/2011/12/13/justice/sandusky-preliminary-hearing/index.html?hpt=hp_t1

SuziQ
12-13-2011, 09:13 AM
http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/mc-penn-state-sandusky-scandal-trial-20111213,0,1448474.story

(snip)
Wes Oliver, an associate professor at Widener Law School in Harrisburg said Sandusky's decision to waive is a clear signal that "a plea is in the works."

If the case was headed to trial, "there is no strategic advantage" to waiving the preliminary hearing, Oliver said.

"If you were going to trial, you would want any opportunity you could get to get witnesses on the stand and learn all you could about what the prosecution is coming at you with," he said.

Tipstaff
12-13-2011, 09:15 AM
Sandusky and his lawyer said something when they came out like they were not allowed to........

Not sure what they said.

I had the link up you provided and it sounded like Sandysky's lawyer said something along the lines of 'we wanted it to be fair and it wasn't going to be that way today'.

wfgodot
12-13-2011, 09:17 AM
If there's a plea deal the punishment needs to be severe or the term "Pennsylvania justice" is an oxymoron.

Tipstaff
12-13-2011, 09:23 AM
If there's a plea deal the punishment needs to be severe or the term "Pennsylvania justice" is an oxymoron.

Gut feeling is if Sandusky takes a plea deal - it makes me wonder who is he protecting? I realize he is 67 and taking the plea saves his family a lot of money but feel there is a lot more he is hiding in taking a plea.

Mamabear1963
12-13-2011, 09:27 AM
Gut feeling is if Sandusky takes a plea deal - it makes me wonder who is he protecting? I realize he is 67 and taking the plea saves his family a lot of money but feel there is a lot more he is hiding in taking a plea.

I just hope it is prison time and not a light deal. I don't care how old he is...if he is guilty, he needs to be kept away from all children and youth.

J. J. in Phila
12-13-2011, 09:42 AM
What a chicken. Guess his lawyer was just blowing smoke. He should have to pay for all the expenses this town has put out for security. GRRRRR

I am listening to Mr. Amendola. He is scared and he realized that his strategy just made matters worse.

Concerned Papa
12-13-2011, 09:45 AM
Sandusky, in a dark suit, entered the county courthouse through the back door Tuesday with his wife, Dottie, at his side. He looked straight ahead, ignoring questions from reporters. Defense attorney Joseph Amendola followed him into the courthouse

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2011/12/13/former-penn-state-coach-sandusky-waives-preliminary-hearing/#ixzz1gQTRTD00

http://i941.photobucket.com/albums/ad257/Papa813_bucket/Dottie.png

Mamabear1963
12-13-2011, 09:49 AM
PeterAlexander Peter Alexander
#BREAKING #Sandusky lawyer says many of alleged victims may be falsely accusing Sandusky for money. Won't discuss plea deal.


Um...sure...

Mamabear1963
12-13-2011, 09:52 AM
http://i941.photobucket.com/albums/ad257/Papa813_bucket/Dottie.png

IF Dottie is as deceived as I think she may be...I feel for her. My friend had no idea her very conservative Christian dh was molesting their oldest dd...as soon as the dd told her we called the authorities...but the healing for her after living in a home with that much deception has been a long haul....


IF she knew...well better keep my mouth shut..

ETA: this grin of his gives me the creeps (can I say that here)

Emeralgem
12-13-2011, 09:52 AM
Who is the guy standing next to Sandusky's attorney? Is it a PI? Why is it all these defense attorneys seem to have PI's attached to their hips as of late? JMHO

J. J. in Phila
12-13-2011, 09:56 AM
Alot of smoke. I thought he was supposed to clarify what really happened for those of us who prematurely convicted his client.

I am glad the vics didn't have to testify. But I bet their anxiety level was horrible though.

If I was a victim, I wouldn't be feeling anxiety. I would be p****d off.

Mamabear1963
12-13-2011, 09:59 AM
sganim Sara Ganim
Amendola said mcqueary is the centerpiece of the prosecution case
1 minute ago Favorite Retweet Reply

sganim Sara Ganim
We're going to fight like hell, Amendola said
2 minutes ago

sganim Sara Ganim
#sandusky said he intends to fight but today wasnt the right day
1 hour ago

sara is a Crime reporter for The Patriot-News in Harrisburg

Quiche
12-13-2011, 10:00 AM
Heh, woke up at 5:30 am Pacific time, switched on the TV just in time to see Sandusky and Amendola ( and entourage) walk out of the door to stop and claim they couldn't have their say today, so it's off. Bullsh!!

FLINCH! (deep sock on the arm-- oops, did I miss and hit your side moob? my bad! :floorlaugh: ) Coward!

But, I think this will be painted as a gesture to his wife. We all know they don't need to hear the victim's statements-- the GJP gave us the gist of it, but of course, the details coming straight from these young men would be a zillion times more devastating. Many gasps, tears, perhaps even sobs from a gallery of Sandusky neighbors and "friends," as well as seasoned reporters and professionals. I think they did the right thing for their case, and it was probably the work of the new consultant.


I want to extend my heartfelt appreciation to the victims in that courtroom this morning-- please don't view this day as a waste of your time and energy. You have succeeded greatly by being there, en force, to stand as ready as soldiers to face a common enemy. I applaud your courage, resolve, and ability to make sure there is never another young boy hurt by this wolf in sheep's clothing. :heartbeat:

octobermoon
12-13-2011, 10:08 AM
Heh, woke up at 5:30 am Pacific time, switched on the TV just in time to see Sandusky and Amendola ( and entourage) walk out of the door to stop and claim they couldn't have their say today, so it's off. Bullsh!!

FLINCH! (deep sock on the arm-- oops, did I miss and hit your side moob? my bad! :floorlaugh: ) Coward!

But, I think this will be painted as a gesture to his wife. We all know they don't need to hear the victim's statements-- the GJP gave us the gist of it, but of course, the details coming straight from these young men would be a zillion times more devastating. Many gasps, tears, perhaps even sobs from a gallery of Sandusky neighbors and "friends," as well as seasoned reporters and professionals. I think they did the right thing for their case, and it was probably the work of the new consultant.


I want to extend my heartfelt appreciation to the victims in that courtroom this morning-- please don't view this day as a waste of your time and energy. You have succeeded greatly by being there, en force, to stand as ready as soldiers to face a common enemy. I applaud your courage, resolve, and ability to make sure there is never another young boy hurt by this wolf in sheep's clothing. :heartbeat:

BBM
Beautifully said. Thank you.

:clap::clap::clap:

octobermoon
12-13-2011, 10:12 AM
I am listening to Mr. Amendola. He is scared and he realized that his strategy just made matters worse.

I missed his little presser, (my son was hankering for breakfast burritos) but I hope it will be online later. I have to say Mr. A. kind of creeps me out too.

But his strategy was off putting for sure.

Mamabear1963
12-13-2011, 10:14 AM
Another defense attorney giving the rest of them a bad name.

I wish I could transcribe this presser....um...incredible...just incredible

Concerned Papa
12-13-2011, 10:15 AM
FINALLY, mr lawyer has said something I feel is 100% correct.

Amendola said the case against Sandusky will largely come down to a question of credibility -- who is more believable

http://www.centredaily.com/2011/12/13/3018542/sandusky-arrives-at-courthouse.html#ixzz1gQYD9aYi

I do, however, suspect a diffirence of opinion as to who will like it and who won't. :floorlaugh:

Mamabear1963
12-13-2011, 10:17 AM
:banghead::banghead::banghead:

nuff said! I am going to back away.

Praying for all those victims with the courage to stand up to this man, who is said to have been playful with the boys, water balloon fights..."you can see his love for them"

I am praying that the truth comes out!!!

Tipstaff
12-13-2011, 10:17 AM
Heh, woke up at 5:30 am Pacific time, switched on the TV just in time to see Sandusky and Amendola ( and entourage) walk out of the door to stop and claim they couldn't have their say today, so it's off. Bullsh!!

FLINCH! (deep sock on the arm-- oops, did I miss and hit your side moob? my bad! :floorlaugh: ) Coward!

But, I think this will be painted as a gesture to his wife. We all know they don't need to hear the victim's statements-- the GJP gave us the gist of it, but of course, the details coming straight from these young men would be a zillion times more devastating. Many gasps, tears, perhaps even sobs from a gallery of Sandusky neighbors and "friends," as well as seasoned reporters and professionals. I think they did the right thing for their case, and it was probably the work of the new consultant.


I want to extend my heartfelt appreciation to the victims in that courtroom this morning-- please don't view this day as a waste of your time and energy. You have succeeded greatly by being there, en force, to stand as ready as soldiers to face a common enemy. I applaud your courage, resolve, and ability to make sure there is never another young boy hurt by this wolf in sheep's clothing. :heartbeat:



Victim #1's attorney spoke after prelim ended. He said that he was at dinner last night with Victim #1 and that Victim #1 was prepared to testify and that he was nervous. The attorney then went on to say he received a phone call that Victim #1 did not have to be in the Courtroom when court opened this morning.

Victim #1's attorney was in the courtroom this AM and was not aware himself that Sandusky was going to waive the hearing.

davehead21
12-13-2011, 10:18 AM
ETA: this grin of his gives me the creeps (can I say that here)

SBM--

I completely agree. It looks like he's getting read to run onto the field for a big game. :waitasec:

octobermoon
12-13-2011, 10:25 AM
OH MY, Mr. A. is still talking? Or is this taped? I am watching In Session.

Concerned Papa
12-13-2011, 10:39 AM
I'm sorry, but I can't help it. This image of his leaving the courthouse this morning reminds me of an old Johnny Cash song:

http://i941.photobucket.com/albums/ad257/Papa813_bucket/TrainComing.png

♫ I hear that train a coming, It's coming round the bend ♫

Mamabear1963
12-13-2011, 10:40 AM
OH MY, Mr. A. is still talking? Or is this taped? I am watching In Session.

I couldn't tell what was live, what was taped...but it seems he had a whole lot to say...

lisalei321
12-13-2011, 10:41 AM
Prayers :prayers: that the victims know that they are very brave, and that they are aware of they support they have.

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy using Tapatalk.

InTheGarden
12-13-2011, 10:47 AM
Sandusky paused outside the courthouse to say, "We fully intend to put together the best possible defense that we can do, to stay the course, to fight for four quarters... We want the opportunity to present our side."

This man is delusional, he still thinks this is a game.

octobermoon
12-13-2011, 10:54 AM
The letter from victim 4 is heartbreaking, but a very strong statement against JS.
His lawyer read it on In Session.

Mamabear1963
12-13-2011, 10:56 AM
Sandusky paused outside the courthouse to say, "We fully intend to put together the best possible defense that we can do, to stay the course, to fight for four quarters... We want the opportunity to present our side."

This man is delusional, he still thinks this is a game.

Exactly...to him it is a game...seriously...if he were innocent I don't think he would be smirking...he would be crushed that the boys he worked with would accuse him like this.

It isn't a game to the victims and I pray JS finds the end of the hall really soon.

On a different note...it bothers me that he can be out! Because he is a big name...because he has money...I know this is a free country...innocent until "proven" guilty...but it bothers me.

Mamabear1963
12-13-2011, 10:57 AM
The letter from victim 4 is heartbreaking, but a very strong statement against JS.
His lawyer read it on In Session.

Is there a transcript? off to look

octobermoon
12-13-2011, 11:02 AM
Is there a transcript? off to look

Not that I can find. But I still can't figure out if what is on TV is live or not. More coffee for me today.

Mamabear1963
12-13-2011, 11:07 AM
Not that I can find. But I still can't figure out if what is on TV is live or not. More coffee for me today.

I was up all night with a sick little one...I definitely need coffee...

This is so sad that these young men even have to testify...that we have a grown man in the place of trust that destroyed that trust...and then can say that the victims just want money.

I think I am feeling a might frustrated this morning...

TobyWong*
12-13-2011, 11:08 AM
Sandusky paused outside the courthouse to say, "We fully intend to put together the best possible defense that we can do, to stay the course, to fight for four quarters... We want the opportunity to present our side."

This man is delusional, he still thinks this is a game.

It's amazing how ignorant he sounds.imo. Did he really say that? Like he can't think of words that are not football related. In my head he says "uh wait a second what were we talking about..." just.. duh! imo

His attrny is so off-putting (if that's a word). He's so forward, in a bully sort of way, imo. When he walks away from the podium to get closer to the reporter asking the question, just to much, cause I think he could hear her, i pretty much could, it was more of a "look at me, paying attention and answering all questions" type of move. imo

Dr.Fessel
12-13-2011, 11:14 AM
Exactly...to him it is a game...seriously...if he were innocent I don't think he would be smirking...he would be crushed that the boys he worked with would accuse him like this.

It isn't a game to the victims and I pray JS finds the end of the hall really soon.

On a different note...it bothers me that he can be out! Because he is a big name...because he has money...I know this is a free country...innocent until "proven" guilty...but it bothers me. It bothers me he is out because justice will not be served if someone kills him or he kills himself.

It also scares me that they will go with a plea bargain. I saw victims one's attorney say if it was the right sentence they would be happy with a plea deal. I am sure all the attorneys who are going to sue would be happy to seen Sandusky not have to spend the money on defense.

I want a full trial with all the evidence layed out. If there is a deal all the testimony so far and even the 1998 100 page report will remain sealed.

stilettos
12-13-2011, 11:17 AM
I'm sorry, but I can't help it. This image of his leaving the courthouse this morning reminds me of an old Johnny Cash song:

http://i941.photobucket.com/albums/ad257/Papa813_bucket/TrainComing.png

♫ I hear that train a coming, It's coming round the bend ♫

I'd like him to be stuck in Folsom Prison.

Mamabear1963
12-13-2011, 11:32 AM
Um..no...someone that watched the presser please tell me this is NOT true:


PeterAlexander Peter Alexander
The 1-800-REALITY number #Sandusky's lawyer jokingly referenced in presser actually exists. It rings thru to a sex line.
1 minute ago Favorite Retweet Reply

Dr.Fessel
12-13-2011, 11:33 AM
It's called Karma




Sandusky’s Lawyer: If You Believe McQueary, "I Suggest You Dial 1-800-REALITY." That’s A Gay Phone Sex Line.


Joe Amendola, the attorney for Jerry Sandusky who thus far has been lawyerin' like a man who got his J.D. from the bottom of a cereal box, did some more lawyerin' in front of the cameras this morning. The choicest moment: At one point, Amendola discussed the possibility that Mike McQueary witnessed a rape, told Joe Paterno and two university administrators, and no one did anything except tell Sandusky to stay out of the locker room with kids. To anyone who believes that version of events, Amendola said, "I suggest you dial 1-800-REALITY." I did. Here's what I got:


Hey guys, welcome to the hottest place for triple-X action. Get ready for bulging, bursting pleasure with horny gay, bi, and bi-curious studs. Just 99 cents per minute.
http://deadspin.com/5867633/

Concerned Papa
12-13-2011, 11:34 AM
It bothers me he is out because justice will not be served if someone kills him or he kills himself.

It also scares me that they will go with a plea bargain. I saw victims one's attorney say if it was the right sentence they would be happy with a plea deal. I am sure all the attorneys who are going to sue would be happy to seen Sandusky not have to spend the money on defense.

I want a full trial with all the evidence layed out. If there is a deal all the testimony so far and even the 1998 100 page report will remain sealed.

What's it gonna take for the powers that be to realize this monster needs to be locked up NOW? Are they actually under the delusion that he is gonna be a good boy while out on these ridiculous bonds? Does the Governor think, for a moment, that no children were molested by this freak during the TWO YEARS he only had one trooper "investigating" while he was AG? How many more victims will it take to get theiir attention?

What more proof of this animal's obsession and devious methods do they need than this newest article?

Two Juniata College football players tell CBS 21 News that Sandusky was actively involved with the Eagles program in 2010, even though his volunteer coaching application was rejected because a background check revealed he was being investigated at a Clinton County High School.

The players say he was there during every game of the season -- even at home games, despite the school's former athletic director reiterating to the head coach that Sandusky was to have no connection with the team.

"How do you not know he's here?" asked the second player in amazement. "It's not like the press box is some closed-off area. You just turn your head (around) and look up (into the windows)...you see all the coaches in the press box."

The players say Sandusky would wait in the press box until after the game and would leave once the stadium had cleared.

http://www.whptv.com/news/local/story/Sandusky-still-coaches-Juniata-College/GemajxS3mkGwHLfChNsgtw.cspx

:banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead:

octobermoon
12-13-2011, 11:35 AM
Um..no...someone that watched the presser please tell me this is NOT true:

Ick! :maddening::furious:

J. J. in Phila
12-13-2011, 11:37 AM
FINALLY, mr lawyer has said something I feel is 100% correct.



I do, however, suspect a diffirence of opinion as to who will like it and who won't. :floorlaugh:

Actually, no. In the case of Victim 6, it is Sandusky's comments that he's going have to defend against. As I've said, he's going to have a problem with Victim 1 and Victim 6.

Mr. Amendola is an exceptionally good defense attorney; he might be my second or third choice if I wanted one in Centre County (and my first choice can't do it because she's the DA). I have to say it, though. I think he's in over his head.

JoeFromLB
12-13-2011, 11:41 AM
Sandusky paused outside the courthouse to say, "We fully intend to put together the best possible defense that we can do, to stay the course, to fight for four quarters... We want the opportunity to present our side."

This man is delusional, he still thinks this is a game.

To him, it's probably like using a time-out to make your opponent nervous before he kicks the game-winning field goal. This is a common football strategy employed late in games to put more pressure on an opponent.

These young men would have been nervous in today's preliminary hearing, of course, but the burden of proof is far lower for the prosecution, so a witness could stumble a bit from nerves and it wouldn't hurt the case.
Now they have to endure a long wait until trial, and the Sandusky side can go all-out in their publicity quest to paint them as liars. The nervousness level will double at least by the time the trial starts.

I expect another big "interview" with Sandusky soon. His wife will probably be sitting there holding his hand and saying she doesn't understand why these men would want to persecute such a wonderful man.

Concerned Papa
12-13-2011, 11:43 AM
By Tommy Craggs and Dom Cosentino

Joe Amendola, the attorney for Jerry Sandusky who thus far has been lawyerin' like a man who got his J.D. from the bottom of a cereal box, did some more lawyerin' in front of the cameras this morning.

http://deadspin.com/5867633/

I'm REALLY liking these guy's thought process! :floorlaugh::floorlaugh::floorlaugh::floorlaugh:

Dr.Fessel
12-13-2011, 11:50 AM
To him, it's probably like using a time-out to make your opponent nervous before he kicks the game-winning field goal. This is a common football strategy employed late in games to put more pressure on an opponent.

These young men would have been nervous in today's preliminary hearing, of course, but the burden of proof is far lower for the prosecution, so a witness could stumble a bit from nerves and it wouldn't hurt the case.
Now they have to endure a long wait until trial, and the Sandusky side can go all-out in their publicity quest to paint them as liars. The nervousness level will double at least by the time the trial starts.

I expect another big "interview" with Sandusky soon. His wife will probably be sitting there holding his hand and saying she doesn't understand why these men would want to persecute such a wonderful man.

I think we are going to start hearing stuff from some of the victims now.

Dr.Fessel
12-13-2011, 11:54 AM
PeterAlexanderPeter Alexander





#Sandusky Victim 4: "I can't believe they put us through this until the last second only to waive the hearing."

https://twitter.com/#!/PeterAlexander

Teach him a lesson Victim 4.

Mamabear1963
12-13-2011, 12:06 PM
I think we are going to start hearing stuff from some of the victims now.

I am really hoping the victims gain some confidence...I have a feeling that JS is going to come out swinging at them.

You know, he had control over them before and he things he can regain that control...it is time for that control to end!!!

Mamabear1963
12-13-2011, 12:08 PM
InSession In Session
#Sandusky will not be attending the arraignment that was scheduled for January 2012. He entered a plea of #notguilty today. #PennState
2 minutes ago Favorite Retweet Reply

Can someone explain why he won't be attending? Lack of sleep or lack of coffee but I am confused...

Tipstaff
12-13-2011, 12:35 PM
Earlier this morning after Sandusky waived his right to the preliminary hearing someone from the DA's office spoke. He stated that Sandusky's bond WOULD NOT BE CHANGED.

Could this be the simple motive for Sandusky and his attorney waiver at the last moment? After the details of the hearing went on for a day or two would it have been possible for him to be held on a higher bond?

And if any other victims come forward could Sandusky be rearrested and the bond be raised yet again?

Could this all have happened so that Sandusky could remain free on the $250,000 bond for Christmas and through the New Year?

mahmoo
12-13-2011, 12:37 PM
Sandusky paused outside the courthouse to say, "We fully intend to put together the best possible defense that we can do, to stay the course, to fight for four quarters... We want the opportunity to present our side."

This man is delusional, he still thinks this is a game.
His choice of words is interesting. Particularly when he says "our side". Shouldn't that be "my side" instead since he's the only person being charged?

I listened to Amendola's reasoning for waiving the hearing BUT.....what I don't understand is WHY they waited til the nth hour to do it after considerable time, money and resources went into preparing for the hearing. Why didn't they waive his right two weeks ago?

BigCat
12-13-2011, 12:40 PM
Sara Ganim on HLN said one of the reasons Sandusky waived his right to the preliminary hearing was his attorney feared additional charges. I don't understand how that's possible, but that's what she said.

Dr.Fessel
12-13-2011, 12:40 PM
His choice of words is interesting. Particularly when he says "our side". Shouldn't that be "my side" instead since he's the only person being charged?

I listened to Amendola's reasoning for waiving the hearing BUT.....what I don't understand is WHY they waited til the nth hour to do it after considerable time, money and resources went into preparing for the hearing. Why didn't they waive his right two weeks ago? I think Amendola loves to get on TV.

Tipstaff
12-13-2011, 12:51 PM
The Pittsburgh Post Gazette on-line is reporting that Schultz and Curley will not waive their right to a preliminary hearing which is scheduled for Friday, Dec. 16, 2011.

mahmoo
12-13-2011, 12:53 PM
Jerry Sandusky is 'just a very naive guy,' lawyer says (http://www.pennlive.com/midstate/index.ssf/2011/12/jerry_sandusky_is_just_a_very.html)

Jerry Sandusky's lawyer, Joe Amendola, said his client is "just a very naive guy" whose relationships with children have been misunderstood.

Sandusky has said that he's showered with and was affectionate with children, but says his actions have been misconstrued.

"I grew up in an Italian family where we all hugged and kissed everybody. Grandparents patted our butts. It wasn't about sex," Amendola said today.Did you shower with your aunts, uncles, grandparents, etc. when you were 13 years old Amendola??? Guess you wouldn't have a problem with your kids showering with Sandusky would you Joe?

stilettos
12-13-2011, 12:55 PM
PeterAlexanderPeter Alexander





#Sandusky Victim 4: "I can't believe they put us through this until the last second only to waive the hearing."

https://twitter.com/#!/PeterAlexander

Teach him a lesson Victim 4.

That's right Buddy...get mad...and take your power back. Blast the man.

stilettos
12-13-2011, 12:57 PM
Jerry Sandusky is 'just a very naive guy,' lawyer says (http://www.pennlive.com/midstate/index.ssf/2011/12/jerry_sandusky_is_just_a_very.html)

Did you shower with your aunts, uncles, grandparents, etc. when you were 13 years old Amendola??? Guess you wouldn't have a problem with your kids showering with Sandusky would you Joe?

Not for nothing but my Grandpa didn't pat my butt and neither did my Grandma. Maybe when I was an infant. NOT when I was 9 or ten. There was also no naked showering...though I was taught that things like that were inappropriate. Where do they get these flipping people?

Dr.Fessel
12-13-2011, 01:01 PM
Jerry Sandusky is 'just a very naive guy,' lawyer says (http://www.pennlive.com/midstate/index.ssf/2011/12/jerry_sandusky_is_just_a_very.html)

Did you shower with your aunts, uncles, grandparents, etc. when you were 13 years old Amendola??? Guess you wouldn't have a problem with your kids showering with Sandusky would you Joe?

It just burns me that no reporter has asked Sandusky if he showered with his own sons and daughter. They just let him say anything he wants. Pure cowards.

Dr.Fessel
12-13-2011, 01:06 PM
I am watching Nancy Grace on HLN, she is nailing exactly what is going on. Called BS on people saying McQuearys testimony is in question now. She said it was story put out by defense.

Pensfan
12-13-2011, 02:13 PM
Sandusky and his defense managed to abuse the victims again by forcing them to appear in a tiny town full of reporters believing that they would testify today. :furious:

It is very possible that the prosecution would have asked for Sandusky to be held without bail after the many victims testified to this judge. This could be another reason why Amendola waived the hearing.

Pensfan
12-13-2011, 02:46 PM
Did anyone mention how soon it will be before the date for his trial is set? TIA

Amendola stated in this article that he believes the trial will be moved to Philadelphia.
http://www.nbcphiladelphia.com/news/local/Sandusky-Hires-Private-Investigator-Attorney-134623048.html
I don't know if that is Amendola's wishful thinking or if he believes this for a specific reason. Clearly it won't stay in Centre County, but it could be moved into one of Pennsylvania's many other rural counties.

stilettos
12-13-2011, 02:52 PM
Honestly, the longer I review the circumstances of the "naked showering" the more ludicrous it becomes. I know I am not extremely prudish...but my own daughter has never seen me naked. Good Lord...why would a person seeing this man in the shower with a young boy not call 911 immediately. I firmly believe that everyone and anyone who saw it, knew about it and did nothing should be up for charges. This is beyond the pale. Jerry needs to be in jail.

For accuracy, I must state that my children have seen me in very teeny bikini's.

Mamabear1963
12-13-2011, 03:00 PM
Did anyone mention how soon it will be before the date for his trial is set? TIA

Amendola stated in this article that he believes the trial will be moved to Philadelphia.
http://www.nbcphiladelphia.com/news/local/Sandusky-Hires-Private-Investigator-Attorney-134623048.html
I don't know if that is Amendola's wishful thinking or if he believes this for a specific reason. Clearly it won't stay in Centre County, but it could be moved into one of Pennsylvania's many other rural counties.

Bring it here to Lancaster!!!

Wise Old Owl
12-13-2011, 03:06 PM
Oh Emm Gee!!!!!!! Really? I mean, c'mon......

Wow just wow.

HLN is covering this and they just showed a clip from Amendola outside the courthouse this morning.

I swear - Amendola actually said "but I'm just a poor, country lawyer..." :eek: :waitasec:

Really?

I didn't even hear the question - didn't need to. A poor, country lawyer? Yea, right. Who just happened to get GWB as a client?

Just makes me wanna :puke:


JMHO

Pensfan
12-13-2011, 03:18 PM
Philadelphia is almost a four hour drive from State College. Traveling to Philadelphia and waiting for a day or so in a hotel for their turn to testify will make testifying against Sandusky even more unpleasant for the victims. It will become problematic for the prosecution to manage all the victims if the trial is long and hours away from the victims’ residences. :(

J. J. in Phila
12-13-2011, 03:25 PM
Did anyone mention how soon it will be before the date for his trial is set? TIA

Amendola stated in this article that he believes the trial will be moved to Philadelphia.
http://www.nbcphiladelphia.com/news/local/Sandusky-Hires-Private-Investigator-Attorney-134623048.html
I don't know if that is Amendola's wishful thinking or if he believes this for a specific reason. Clearly it won't stay in Centre County, but it could be moved into one of Pennsylvania's many other rural counties.

If it is a Philadelphia jury, we'll skin Sandusky alive.

A crowd in North Philadelphia saw a man suspected in a child rape, "restrained" him, using a board at one point, and turned him over to the police.

J. J. in Phila
12-13-2011, 03:26 PM
Oh Emm Gee!!!!!!! Really? I mean, c'mon......

Wow just wow.

HLN is covering this and they just showed a clip from Amendola outside the courthouse this morning.

I swear - Amendola actually said "but I'm just a poor, country lawyer..." :eek: :waitasec:

Really?

I didn't even hear the question - didn't need to. A poor, country lawyer? Yea, right. Who just happened to get GWB as a client?

Just makes me wanna :puke:


JMHO

And who went to Georgetown Law School. :waitasec:

Mamabear1963
12-13-2011, 03:28 PM
SPORTSbyBROOKS SPORTSbyBROOKS
Is there a DIFFERENCE between publicly standing behind friend AND calling friend's accusers, repeatedly in the media, 'liars out for money'?
7 minutes ago

angelainwi
12-13-2011, 03:53 PM
2 Questions 1.) Whats is the predicted time line for this trial to begin and 2.) Will it be televised?

Mamabear1963
12-13-2011, 04:05 PM
2 Questions 1.) Whats is the predicted time line for this trial to begin and 2.) Will it be televised?

Not sure of the time line for the trial...but PA does not allow camera's in the court room...