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wfgodot
12-19-2011, 03:41 PM
Please continue discussion here on the Penn State/Sandusky/Second Mile case.

Links of interest:

Thread #1

Thread #2

Thread #3

Thread #4

Thread #5

Thread #6


Grand jury presentment (http://www.wgal.com/pdf/29737452/detail.html) (.pdf)

Remember to show respect for others when engaging in thread dialogue; when replying to the
posts of others - attack the content of the post if need be, but never get personal and attack the poster.

Happy Holidays!
Merry Christmas Happy Hanukkah Blessed Kwanzaa

ohiogirl
12-19-2011, 04:05 PM
How wonderful of all of these men that in all the testimony to the Grand Jury and at Friday's hearing, not one of them were asked about the boys involved.
Not Paterno, not Schultz, not Curley, did anyone ask them "What about the boys? Did you see if they were all right?" Sickening.

Pensfan
12-19-2011, 05:24 PM
Someone on the last thread posted that Sarge was an elementary school teacher, but I can't find any more info on this. The only info that I can find on Sarge working outside her home is that she had a job on campus when she and Jerry were first married. Sandusky's putrid book stated this, but it didn't appear that she had a job teaching. Has anyone else found anything about Sarge's occupation (if she had one)? TIA (I am really hoping she didn't bring little boys to their home even if it was only for class picnics.)

Pensfan
12-19-2011, 06:25 PM
"Not one thing was said to us," said Bradley P. Lunsford, a Centre County judge (a former prosecutor) who served on the Second Mile board between 2001 and 2005. "Not a damn thing.

Informed of Lunsford's comments, Dr. Raykovitz said, "He can feel anything he wants to feel."
http://www.boston.com/news/education/higher/articles/2011/12/19/former_2nd_mile_board_members_we_needed_to_know/

Disturbingly, Dr. Raykovitz, CEO of The Second Mile for 28 years, likely applied that same strategy to Sandusky.

InTheGarden
12-19-2011, 09:31 PM
"Vsganim Sara Ganim
Joe Amendola told me Dottie and Jerry #Sandusky want to talk to Oprah, 60min, Rock Center or Barbara Walters after Jan.1
https://twitter.com/#!/sganim "

I would much rather have the both of them talk to Dr. Phil. I would love to hear that exchange. "It's butt to the curb kicking time."

Reader
12-19-2011, 09:57 PM
Not to belabor the point from yesterday :) but if you re-read these 2 articles you can pick up the conflicts of what the detective and child abuse worker say:

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/11352/1197680-454.stm#ixzz1gtqFEiWe

http://www.pennlive.com/midstate/index.ssf/2011/11/who_knew_what_about_jerry_sand.html


The detective says he and possibly Mr. Gricar decided not to prosecute the case because the child abuse worker said it didn't meet the definition of child abuse.

The child abuse worker says the detective didn't give him all the details of what he knew, so he closed his case when the DA closed theirs.

However both interviewed JS together on June 1 after the detective had the 2 sessions with the mother questioning JS at her house in May, with him listening.

There is no way I can believe these 2 men investigating this case did not discuss what they each knew about the case before that joint interview. It would be necessary to know what to ask JS. It is normal procedure to share all information in an investigation to know how to proceed correctly.

No need to get into a back and forth about the details on this again, just to explain why this decision in 1998 disturbs me so.

Sara Ganim says a mouth full here in her excellent summary of the case above:

These dates spanning 13 years share two common threads that run through the entire grand jury presentment. At each stage, boys voiced concern or pain or alarm at the conduct of Jerry Sandusky — or adults witnessed behavior they found troubling or alarming.

And at each stage, other adults dismissed, minimized or failed to act upon those concerns.

It remains to be seen whether any of these actions, or the statements behind them, are a matter for the courts. For now, only two things are certain:

Many of the accounts in this tragic and tangled history conflict with one another.

And everyone cannot be telling the truth.

At what cost was all this dodging and feinting to avoid facing the truth about JS done?

To the cost of a number of boys named in the GJ reports, and more I believe we may never know about...to their mental, physical and emotional cost.

I can only hope that through the tortuous proceedings of the GJ and trial to come, these victims can find some vindication and healing...

ThoughtFox
12-19-2011, 10:45 PM
Reader: It's like a circular firing squad with all of them blaming the others or hoping to push the responsibility onto someone else.

Unbelievable. :maddening:

ETA: And we talk about "power" in this case and who had it, well the police, the DA, and the social workers had the "power" to stop Sandusky and they made a conscious choice not to do it. I for one am happy to see them screeching and pointing and one another while on the hot seat. They could have helped all these children and they just didn't. Lame excuses just don't cut it - they have ruined lives.

J. J. in Phila
12-19-2011, 11:01 PM
Not to belabor the point from yesterday :) but if you re-read these 2 articles you can pick up the conflicts of what the detective and child abuse worker say:

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/11352/1197680-454.stm#ixzz1gtqFEiWe

http://www.pennlive.com/midstate/index.ssf/2011/11/who_knew_what_about_jerry_sand.html


The detective says he and possibly Mr. Gricar decided not to prosecute the case because the child abuse worker said it didn't meet the definition of child abuse.

The child abuse worker says the detective didn't give him all the details of what he knew, so he closed his case when the DA closed theirs.

However both interviewed JS together on June 1 after the detective had the 2 sessions with the mother questioning JS at her house in May, with him listening.


Well, the detective, never indicated that he told Lauro what Sandusky said, and I can understand that. Lauro was a potential witness in a criminal case, and it would be unlikely for the detective to tell one potential witness what another potential witness said. That actually seems like good criminal investigation.

According to Lauro, Gricar made his decision first, so it wasn't influenced by Lauro's decision. I'd like to see the actual grand jury testimony from the detective.

Lauro has already said that his decision was not based of Gricar's decision. It is entirely possible that Lauro and Gricar made exceedingly bad decisions. I would like to know which did it first. Lauro says it was Gricar, but he also said that his decision was not influenced by it.

Reader
12-19-2011, 11:31 PM
Reader: It's like a circular firing squad with all of them blaming the others or hoping to push the responsibility onto someone else.

Unbelievable. :maddening:

ETA: And we talk about "power" in this case and who had it, well the police, the DA, and the social workers had the "power" to stop Sandusky and they made a conscious choice not to do it. I for one am happy to see them screeching and pointing and one another while on the hot seat. They could have helped all these children and they just didn't. Lame excuses just don't cut it - they have ruined lives.


Exactly...thank you!

Tipstaff
12-20-2011, 09:44 AM
Last night AOL reporting the Joe Paterno is out of the hospital.

Dr.Fessel
12-20-2011, 02:38 PM
Jerry Sandusky Case NBC Correspondent Arrested Courting Exclusive Interview

An NBC Correspondent was arrested last week after allegedly getting wasted at a party thrown by Jerry Sandusky's lawyer ... TMZ has learned.

The Correspondent -- Jay Gray -- was invited by attorney Joe Amendola to watch the New York Giants game at his house on December 11. Amendola invited reporters from other media outlets as well, all of whom were vying for an exclusive interview with Sandusky.

One source familiar with the party tells TMZ ... Gray got "really drunk" during the game. Sometime after midnight, Gray left the party and began driving. He was stopped by a Pennsylvania State Police officer for a traffic violation, which quickly turned into a DUI stop.

According to police records obtained by TMZ, "He [Gray] had been drinking and was arrested for DUI." The time of arrest was 1:45 AM on December 12.

We left messages for Gray but did not hear back. Ditto Amendola.

NBC had no comment.

http://www.tmz.com/2011/12/20/jerry-sandusky-nbc-correspondent-arrested-dui/#.TvDVVHrAODc

wfgodot
12-20-2011, 03:13 PM
In some respects, this case went from tragedy to farce very quickly.

Tipstaff
12-20-2011, 03:17 PM
Jerry Sandusky Case NBC Correspondent Arrested Courting Exclusive Interview

An NBC Correspondent was arrested last week after allegedly getting wasted at a party thrown by Jerry Sandusky's lawyer ... TMZ has learned.

The Correspondent -- Jay Gray -- was invited by attorney Joe Amendola to watch the New York Giants game at his house on December 11. Amendola invited reporters from other media outlets as well, all of whom were vying for an exclusive interview with Sandusky.

One source familiar with the party tells TMZ ... Gray got "really drunk" during the game. Sometime after midnight, Gray left the party and began driving. He was stopped by a Pennsylvania State Police officer for a traffic violation, which quickly turned into a DUI stop.


According to police records obtained by TMZ, "He [Gray] had been drinking and was arrested for DUI." The time of arrest was 1:45 AM on December 12.

We left messages for Gray but did not hear back. Ditto Amendola.

NBC had no comment.

http://www.tmz.com/2011/12/20/jerry-sandusky-nbc-correspondent-arrested-dui/#.TvDVVHrAODc


Appears Mr. Amendola is trying to curry favor with the press. Strange ways Sandusky's lawyer operates. He creeps me out as much as Sandusky!

Dr.Fessel
12-20-2011, 04:26 PM
Legendary Columnist Bill Conlin Resigns Over Forthcoming Philly Inquirer Bombshell

The Philadelphia Inquirer's top investigative reporter, Nancy Phillips, has written a story containing what we're told are allegations of child molestation against sportswriter Bill Conlin, a longtime columnist at the rival Daily News. Conlin resigned just moments ago, according to a source at the Daily News.

Conlin, who turns 78 this May, won the Ford C. Frick J.G. Taylor Spink Award last May. The story supposedly will drop soon (the newspapers are published by the same company, sharing some resources and a website but otherwise competing for a number of the same readers). Conlin has hired an attorney to defend himself against the piece. We'll have more details on this. For now, we can tell you that Conlin is at his condo in Largo, Fla.


http://deadspin.com/5869737/legendary-columnist-bill-conlin-resigns-over-forthcoming-philly-inquirer-bombshell

J. J. in Phila
12-20-2011, 04:38 PM
Legendary Columnist Bill Conlin Resigns Over Forthcoming Philly Inquirer Bombshell

The Philadelphia Inquirer's top investigative reporter, Nancy Phillips, has written a story containing what we're told are allegations of child molestation against sportswriter Bill Conlin, a longtime columnist at the rival Daily News. Conlin resigned just moments ago, according to a source at the Daily News.

Conlin, who turns 78 this May, won the Ford C. Frick J.G. Taylor Spink Award last May. The story supposedly will drop soon (the newspapers are published by the same company, sharing some resources and a website but otherwise competing for a number of the same readers). Conlin has hired an attorney to defend himself against the piece. We'll have more details on this. For now, we can tell you that Conlin is at his condo in Largo, Fla.


http://deadspin.com/5869737/legendary-columnist-bill-conlin-resigns-over-forthcoming-philly-inquirer-bombshell


Somebody else I have never heard of. :)

wfgodot
12-20-2011, 04:39 PM
Just did a new thread: PA - Top baseball writer resigns after child molestation accusations

Bad year for sports in PA.

ETA
The rumored Philadelphia Inquirer story has just been published online, and it's a must-read - great journalism. I posted the link to it at the thread linked above.

Reader
12-20-2011, 06:22 PM
McQueary story says a lot about us
Jason Whitlock

http://msn.foxsports.com/collegefootball/story/mike-mcqueary-what-angers-most-is-they-see-themselves-when-they-consider-his-actions-in-penn-state-sex-abuse-scandal-111711

...........I bring all this up because I think I understand the situation Mike McQueary faced when he walked in on Jerry Sandusky allegedly raping a 10-year-old boy in 2002. I bring it up because I believe many of the people loudly and quietly crucifying McQueary for apparently doing next to nothing to stop Sandusky would make the same choice as McQueary.

David Brooks, the New York Times columnist, brilliantly argued this point in a column earlier this week. Citing the Holocaust, the Rwandan genocide and random American street violence, Brooks wrote that people "suffer from Motivated Blindness."

Not that I disagree with Brooks, but I believe he would’ve strengthened his column by referencing Motivated Blindne$$, America’s most powerful force when it comes to willfully ignoring lapses in ethics and adherence to law, common decency and morality.

Had McQueary walked in on Sandusky raping a child inside a YMCA locker room, the then-28-year-old McQueary very well may have beaten the then-58-year-old, weaponless Sandusky within inches of his life and rescued the young boy.

It was the workplace environment that ignited McQueary’s Motivated Blindne$$.

People, Americans in particular, are most cowardly when at work. For good reason.


More at link....

Reader
12-20-2011, 06:41 PM
In some respects, this case went from tragedy to farce very quickly.


Well, may I disagree to an extent?

Some of the people associated with the case are farcical but the case concerning the abuse of the boys is not, to me...it is still a tragedy for them and how it has affected their lives.

wfgodot
12-20-2011, 06:52 PM
Well, may I disagree to an extent?

Some of the people associated with the case are farcical but the case concerning the abuse of the boys is not, to me...it is still a tragedy for them and how it has affected their lives.

I agree. That's why I used the phrase "In some respects...." The case specifically is about those allegedly raped by Sandusky and will always be tragic, but its cultural presence has sadly spread out from there, first to the Penn State cover-up and now to many other aspects. One is reminded of the circles of Hell in Dante.

wfgodot
12-20-2011, 06:58 PM
Detective Who Investigated Jerry Sandusky In 1998 Says "There Was Enough Evidence" To Press Charges (http://deadspin.com/5869502/detective-who-investigated-jerry-sandusky-in-1998-says-now+missing-da-never-said-why-he-didnt-file-charges) (Deadspin)

Steely Dan
12-20-2011, 07:03 PM
Jerry Sandusky Case NBC Correspondent Arrested Courting Exclusive Interview

An NBC Correspondent was arrested last week after allegedly getting wasted at a party thrown by Jerry Sandusky's lawyer ... TMZ has learned.

The Correspondent -- Jay Gray -- was invited by attorney Joe Amendola to watch the New York Giants game at his house on December 11. Amendola invited reporters from other media outlets as well, all of whom were vying for an exclusive interview with Sandusky.

One source familiar with the party tells TMZ ... Gray got "really drunk" during the game. Sometime after midnight, Gray left the party and began driving. He was stopped by a Pennsylvania State Police officer for a traffic violation, which quickly turned into a DUI stop.

According to police records obtained by TMZ, "He [Gray] had been drinking and was arrested for DUI." The time of arrest was 1:45 AM on December 12.

We left messages for Gray but did not hear back. Ditto Amendola.

NBC had no comment.

http://www.tmz.com/2011/12/20/jerry-sandusky-nbc-correspondent-arrested-dui/#.TvDVVHrAODc


Legendary Columnist Bill Conlin Resigns Over Forthcoming Philly Inquirer Bombshell

The Philadelphia Inquirer's top investigative reporter, Nancy Phillips, has written a story containing what we're told are allegations of child molestation against sportswriter Bill Conlin, a longtime columnist at the rival Daily News. Conlin resigned just moments ago, according to a source at the Daily News.

Conlin, who turns 78 this May, won the Ford C. Frick J.G. Taylor Spink Award last May. The story supposedly will drop soon (the newspapers are published by the same company, sharing some resources and a website but otherwise competing for a number of the same readers). Conlin has hired an attorney to defend himself against the piece. We'll have more details on this. For now, we can tell you that Conlin is at his condo in Largo, Fla.


http://deadspin.com/5869737/legendary-columnist-bill-conlin-resigns-over-forthcoming-philly-inquirer-bombshell

I know we shouldn't blame parents but those parents were foolish. JMO I'll cut them some slack in that it was the seventies and things are a lot different now but when you have three girls and a boy talking to their parents about it then at least one of you should call the cops.

StellarsJay
12-21-2011, 02:07 AM
Pennsfan said: "Someone on the last thread posted that Sarge was an elementary school teacher, but I can't find any more info on this."
You are right. What I posted was a quote of a quote that had changed quite a bit- I've found the original and the student teacher was Dorothy's daughter and it wasn't a yearly event.
Here's a url and excerpt of the story:

Ben Jones: A Not So Happy Valley. Understanding State College's Shock
Nov 8
http://www.statecollege.com/news/columns/ben-jones-a-not-so-happy-valley-understanding-state-colleges-shock-955865/
Ben Jones covers Penn State football and basketball for StateCollege.com.
Excerpt:
In 1994 I was in kindergarten... During that school year, Jerry Sandusky’s daughter was my class’ student teacher. Sometime during the middle of the school year, the idea came up that we would have picnic at the Sanduskys' house. They lived just on the other side of the chainlink fence that surrounded the playground. It was perhaps only 100 yards from the school, separated only by a few trees and bushes.
Given that the Sanduskys' daughter was our student teacher, we all thought it was pretty awesome that we got to meet her dad and see where she lived. On top of that, we would be the only class that got to visit. It was a one-time deal, which made it all the more exciting.
Once our permission slips were signed, we made the short walk to the Sanduskys' house. Jerry and his wife, Dottie, welcomed us in and we made our way to their basement, where cookies and milk were laid out for us to eat. After we ate our food, Jerry talked to us about football, we watched a little film from the last game and then we headed back to the school.

ThoughtFox
12-21-2011, 03:46 AM
Pennsfan said: "Someone on the last thread posted that Sarge was an elementary school teacher, but I can't find any more info on this."
You are right. What I posted was a quote of a quote that had changed quite a bit- I've found the original and the student teacher was Dorothy's daughter and it wasn't a yearly event.
Here's a url and excerpt of the story:

Ben Jones: A Not So Happy Valley. Understanding State College's Shock
Nov 8
http://www.statecollege.com/news/columns/ben-jones-a-not-so-happy-valley-understanding-state-colleges-shock-955865/
Ben Jones covers Penn State football and basketball for StateCollege.com.
Excerpt:
In 1994 I was in kindergarten... During that school year, Jerry Sandusky’s daughter was my class’ student teacher. Sometime during the middle of the school year, the idea came up that we would have picnic at the Sanduskys' house. They lived just on the other side of the chainlink fence that surrounded the playground. It was perhaps only 100 yards from the school, separated only by a few trees and bushes.
Given that the Sanduskys' daughter was our student teacher, we all thought it was pretty awesome that we got to meet her dad and see where she lived. On top of that, we would be the only class that got to visit. It was a one-time deal, which made it all the more exciting.
Once our permission slips were signed, we made the short walk to the Sanduskys' house. Jerry and his wife, Dottie, welcomed us in and we made our way to their basement, where cookies and milk were laid out for us to eat. After we ate our food, Jerry talked to us about football, we watched a little film from the last game and then we headed back to the school.

I wonder if the daughter is still a teacher? Seems as if we would have heard more about it if she was.

What that story confirms is the idea of kids eating in the basement, which one of the victims swore was true, but which Dottie denied the other day. Why feed them in the basement? I'm pretty sure that was Jerry's idea - I bet he was on cloud nine that day.

"No child who ever visited our home was ever forced to stay in our basement and fed there," she said. "All the kids who visited us ate with us and our kids and other guests when they were at our home."

http://abcnews.go.com/US/jerry-sanduskys-wife-denies-sex-abuse/story?id=15114113

BigCat
12-21-2011, 08:44 AM
The below opinion piece is completely outrageous. Yet, at the same time, it kind of makes sense. :confused:


What this shows is that people’s reactions to a brand name are tied to complex responses related to the brand and themselves. As a result, at certain point “Penn State” will have -- if it hasn’t already—become toxic, meaning that people will automatically, and involuntarily, experience a negative reaction whenever they encounter it.

That’s the science. Here’s an anecdote to illustrate how this plays out in the real world. Last week, a colleague of mine related how he had seen someone at Rockefeller Center wearing a Penn State jacket. The name made him angry –angry enough to seriously consider approaching the man and giving him a piece of his mind about the school.

Yes, the name has to go, along with the “We are Penn State” cheer heard at every game, the jackets, banners, logos and other references to this damaged identifier.


Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2011/12/20/why-penn-state-needs-to-change-its-namenow/#ixzz1hAl24AK0

waltzingmatilda
12-21-2011, 09:07 AM
Jerry Sandusky Case NBC Correspondent Arrested Courting Exclusive Interview

An NBC Correspondent was arrested last week after allegedly getting wasted at a party thrown by Jerry Sandusky's lawyer ... TMZ has learned.

The Correspondent -- Jay Gray -- was invited by attorney Joe Amendola to watch the New York Giants game at his house on December 11. Amendola invited reporters from other media outlets as well, all of whom were vying for an exclusive interview with Sandusky.

One source familiar with the party tells TMZ ... Gray got "really drunk" during the game. Sometime after midnight, Gray left the party and began driving. He was stopped by a Pennsylvania State Police officer for a traffic violation, which quickly turned into a DUI stop.

According to police records obtained by TMZ, "He [Gray] had been drinking and was arrested for DUI." The time of arrest was 1:45 AM on December 12.

We left messages for Gray but did not hear back. Ditto Amendola.

NBC had no comment.

http://www.tmz.com/2011/12/20/jerry-sandusky-nbc-correspondent-arrested-dui/#.TvDVVHrAODc

I wonder why the host didn't arrange for a cab to transport his intoxicated guest? It sounds like Gray was visibly drunk at the party. Moo

ThoughtFox
12-21-2011, 10:25 AM
My husband and I watched a Frontline special on PBS last night about Bernie Madoff the Wall Street scammer who bilked thousands out of their life savings before finally being arrested.

What does this have to do with Sandusky? Because Madoff was protected by the same type of "look the other way" protection from colleagues who just wanted the money to keep flowing to them. It was selfish and greedy and narrow-minded, but no one wanted to rock the boat, even if it meant that innocent victims had their finances destroyed.

To me that is what happened at Penn State - Wall Street is just another version, and also mainly a "good old boys club" where they cover for one another.

The SEC just took Madoff's word that everything was fine, and that nothing was going on, even though there were whistleblowers with 600 page reports and people trying to figure out how someone could get so rich while the Stock Market was crashing. It took years before he was finally arrested, and only after the eyes of the world turned to what was going on.

It just goes to show that when there's money, prestige and power involved, people will see whatever they want to see, and denial can keep a problem from coming to light for years. But what gives me hope is that Madoff eventually went to jail and the victims got some restitution - and it would be sweet justice if the same thing happened for the victims of Sandusky.

ohiogirl
12-21-2011, 02:52 PM
Raykovitz defended himself in a telephone interview, saying he acted appropriately at all times. “There have always been steps in place to protect kids,’’ he said. Obviously not!http://articles.boston.com/2011-12-19/sports/30534966_1_sexual-abuse-second-mile-joe-paterno

ohiogirl
12-21-2011, 03:02 PM
David Woodle, acting CEO, refused to address concerns raised by board members about Raykovitz’s handling of information regarding the 2002 shower incident, saying to do so would be a distraction from the goal of helping serve children.

Also from the above link. Really, what did he mean by that? Serving children up to pedophiles? jk

ThoughtFox
12-21-2011, 03:24 PM
David Woodle, acting CEO, refused to address concerns raised by board members about Raykovitz’s handling of information regarding the 2002 shower incident, saying to do so would be a distraction from the goal of helping serve children.

Also from the above link. Really, what did he mean by that? Serving children up to pedophiles? jk

OMG ~ really bad choice of words on his part!

wfgodot
12-21-2011, 03:44 PM
David Woodle, acting CEO, refused to address concerns raised by board members about Raykovitz’s handling of information regarding the 2002 shower incident, saying to do so would be a distraction from the goal of helping serve children.

Also from the above link. Really, what did he mean by that? Serving children up to pedophiles? jk
Still chuckling guiltily on that one.

ohiogirl
12-21-2011, 05:04 PM
Merry Christmas all!

Reader
12-22-2011, 12:06 AM
"Vsganim Sara Ganim
Joe Amendola told me Dottie and Jerry #Sandusky want to talk to Oprah, 60min, Rock Center or Barbara Walters after Jan.1
https://twitter.com/#!/sganim "

I would much rather have the both of them talk to Dr. Phil. I would love to hear that exchange. "It's butt to the curb kicking time."

Remembering how JS incriminated and revealed himself in his previous interviews....perhaps Dottie will now incriminate herself and reveal more than she means to...

I can just hear Amendola reminding her...'all the children ate with the family, never in the basement!'...LOL

Reader
12-22-2011, 12:22 AM
http://msn.foxsports.com/collegefootball/story/Joe-Paterno-85th-birthday-no-celebration-Penn-State-Nittany-Lions-scandal-122111

Wednesday marked Joe Paterno's 85th birthday, a milestone moment for a legendary sports figure. Seven weeks ago, this would have been a big day. People would have been talking about his great accomplishments throughout the years.

Instead?

Crickets. It’s hard to know what to do, or how to take it, really. Someone at USA Today wrote, "For one day, we can forget about how it all ended. . . ."

No, we can't.
------

"To me, college football and being around kids and trying to make them as good as they can be, and having a good competitive football team with the kind of support we get . . . it is an ego trip, I am sure. I am sure it is part ego, but it is fun, and I am enjoying it."

How did that quote make you feel? Sad for a guy who has lost all of that, or angry because he was saying how much he loved helping kids?

You can take one side or the other of that, or even both sides at the same time. That’s the awkwardness of the moment in the air.

HMSHood
12-22-2011, 12:58 AM
My husband and I watched a Frontline special on PBS last night about Bernie Madoff the Wall Street scammer who bilked thousands out of their life savings before finally being arrested.

What does this have to do with Sandusky? Because Madoff was protected by the same type of "look the other way" protection from colleagues who just wanted the money to keep flowing to them. It was selfish and greedy and narrow-minded, but no one wanted to rock the boat, even if it meant that innocent victims had their finances destroyed.

To me that is what happened at Penn State - Wall Street is just another version, and also mainly a "good old boys club" where they cover for one another.

The SEC just took Madoff's word that everything was fine, and that nothing was going on, even though there were whistleblowers with 600 page reports and people trying to figure out how someone could get so rich while the Stock Market was crashing. It took years before he was finally arrested, and only after the eyes of the world turned to what was going on.

It just goes to show that when there's money, prestige and power involved, people will see whatever they want to see, and denial can keep a problem from coming to light for years. But what gives me hope is that Madoff eventually went to jail and the victims got some restitution - and it would be sweet justice if the same thing happened for the victims of Sandusky.

Jerry Sandusky and Bernie Madoff have a lot in common when I think about it. They are both highly narcissistic and think they are the center of the universe. It is reinforced by the "look the other way" mentality.

StellarsJay
12-22-2011, 01:39 PM
Good article by psychologist on child abuse:
http://blogs.phillymag.com/the_philly_post/2011/12/22/96-percent-children-report-sexual-abuse-telling-truth/

Dr.Fessel
12-22-2011, 01:56 PM
Good article by psychologist on child abuse:
http://blogs.phillymag.com/the_philly_post/2011/12/22/96-percent-children-report-sexual-abuse-telling-truth/ TY! There is lots of good stuff here.

Also, we should be cautious of someone who encourages silence from children or enlists them in secret-keeping. Children do keep secrets—with other children. Not with 45-year-old men or women. Another might be an adult referring to a child as their “friend.” Relationships between adults and children aren’t normally “friend” relationships. So if you have an adult expressing these sorts of sentiments in a way that seems inappropriate, that’s something you should pay attention to.

Tipstaff
12-22-2011, 02:21 PM
Looks like Joe Paterno is getting better legal advice than Jerry Sandusky. At least Paterno is not speaking publicly and is maintaining a very low profile.

stilettos
12-22-2011, 02:36 PM
TY! There is lots of good stuff here.

Also, we should be cautious of someone who encourages silence from children or enlists them in secret-keeping. Children do keep secrets—with other children. Not with 45-year-old men or women. Another might be an adult referring to a child as their “friend.” Relationships between adults and children aren’t normally “friend” relationships. So if you have an adult expressing these sorts of sentiments in a way that seems inappropriate, that’s something you should pay attention to.

Yes, yes, yes!! Secrets are bad...and adults are not your friends. They are examples, advisors, teachers, pastors, counselors, mentors, family, trusted elders, community resources, babysitters, authority figures, cautionary tales...but they are not friends to little children.

Reader
12-22-2011, 05:34 PM
Good article by psychologist on child abuse:
http://blogs.phillymag.com/the_philly_post/2011/12/22/96-percent-children-report-sexual-abuse-telling-truth/

Very good article...I think this part fits JS to a T:

"When we’re talking about actual pedophiles, then we’re talking about people, often, who go seeking victims. And they can be very difficult to treat because to them their behavior is not strange. It’s part of the way they live, the way they behave, and peer pressure—other people thinking it’s wrong, society declaring it wrong—has less effect on them."

JS set up an entire organization in order to have access to little boys, and convinced most everyone he was just a great guy helping kids!

Dr.Fessel
12-22-2011, 06:16 PM
Transcript of Curley and Schultz hearing.

http://media.pennlive.com/midstate_impact/other/Curley-Schultz-Hearing-Transcript.pdf

Tipstaff
12-22-2011, 08:18 PM
After reading through the transcript of Curley and Schutz's testimony it is laughable that these two were in Administrative positions at a major university.

Their understanding of what sexual assault is appears to be grade school level at best. Or that is what they wanted the court to believe. Thankfully, they didn't fool anyone and they will go to trial. It is shocking they never tried to find the boy or investigate any further.

As for Paterno, he got off easy IMO.

Disgusting.

McCreary stood up far better as a witness but it is appalling how long Sandusky remained free to rape and assault these young boys because these men refused to act other than slap good old "Jer" on the wrist. Sickening.

Dr.Fessel
12-22-2011, 08:30 PM
After reading through the transcript of Curley and Schutz's testimony it is laughable that these two were in Administrative positions at a major university.

Their understanding of what sexual assault is appears to be grade school level at best. Or that is what they wanted the court to believe. Thankfully, they didn't fool anyone and they will go to trial. It is shocking they never tried to find the boy or investigate any further.

As for Paterno, he got off easy IMO.

Disgusting.

McCreary stood up far better as a witness but it is appalling how long Sandusky remained free to rape and assault these young boys because these men refused to act other than slap good old "Jer" on the wrist. Sickening.

Disgusting cowards. Grown men afraid to use words of a sexual nature. BS

Steely Dan
12-22-2011, 08:45 PM
After reading through the transcript of Curley and Schutz's testimony it is laughable that these two were in Administrative positions at a major university.

Their understanding of what sexual assault is appears to be grade school level at best. Or that is what they wanted the court to believe. Thankfully, they didn't fool anyone and they will go to trial. It is shocking they never tried to find the boy or investigate any further.

As for Paterno, he got off easy IMO.

Disgusting.

McCreary stood up far better as a witness but it is appalling how long Sandusky remained free to rape and assault these young boys because these men refused to act other than slap good old "Jer" on the wrist. Sickening.

BBM

Paterno got off, and most likely will get off, way to easy. He lost a job he probably would have retired from within a couple of years anyway and he was paid A LOT of money in the time he was there. He should see some time for helping to cover this up.

J. J. in Phila
12-22-2011, 09:05 PM
McCreary stood up far better as a witness but it is appalling how long Sandusky remained free to rape and assault these young boys because these men refused to act other than slap good old "Jer" on the wrist. Sickening.

I actually thought he did quite well. Not a hero, but not a villain either.

Reader
12-23-2011, 02:54 AM
There were no heroes for that child or the other children...

What a sad commentary on human frailty and cowardice that document is.

And nothing explains to me why the police or CPS was not called by one of these men in authority who all knew that a crime had been committed.

Why did that boy did not cry out or try to ask for help from McQueary when he had a chance?

Was it because he was used to the abuse? Had he been convinced HE would be in trouble if it was found out?

TobyWong*
12-23-2011, 07:40 AM
There were no heroes for that child or the other children...

What a sad commentary on human frailty and cowardice that document is.

And nothing explains to me why the police or CPS was not called by one of these men in authority who all knew that a crime had been committed.

Why did that boy did not cry out or try to ask for help from McQueary when he had a chance?
Was it because he was used to the abuse? Had he been convinced HE would be in trouble if it was found out?

BBM
I suspect that poor boy was threatened with his life. I can only imagine what the growl that suredly came from sandusky sounded like, once they knew McQueary had seen them, must have been a nasty, low guttural growl of "dont say a word". Can't imagine how much physical pain this child was in, much less the physical imtimidation of the very large naked man, literally on his back. imo Those bear hugs sandusky gives are not love. They are hard reminders of who is stronger, who can take who down. IMO

Tipstaff
12-23-2011, 08:24 AM
BBM
I suspect that poor boy was threatened with his life. I can only imagine what the growl that suredly came from sandusky sounded like, once they knew McQueary had seen them, must have been a nasty, low guttural growl of "dont say a word". Can't imagine how much physical pain this child was in, much less the physical imtimidation of the very large naked man, literally on his back. imo Those bear hugs sandusky gives are not love. They are hard reminders of who is stronger, who can take who down. IMO

To your point I believe your post clarifies to me that this was NOT the FIRST time this young boy, age 10 to 12, per McCreary, had been in this situation with sandusky.

Good post TobyWong.

ThoughtFox
12-23-2011, 08:49 AM
There were no heroes for that child or the other children...

What a sad commentary on human frailty and cowardice that document is.

And nothing explains to me why the police or CPS was not called by one of these men in authority who all knew that a crime had been committed.

Why did that boy did not cry out or try to ask for help from McQueary when he had a chance?

Was it because he was used to the abuse? Had he been convinced HE would be in trouble if it was found out?

Not only was the boy in no position to fight back, but for all he knew McQueary was there in the shower for the same reason. He was probably scared out of his wits by that point. He probably didn't trust anyone, and as it turned out, he was right because no one really saved him, did they?

And let's recall that other boy who cried out for help in Sandusky's own home but no one came, not even Sandusky's wife. I think all the victims felt isolated and probably wondered why all the adults thought Jerry was such a wonderful man when really he was the moral equivalent of a werewolf.

InTheGarden
12-23-2011, 10:25 AM
It is difficult for people who came from loving homes and have parents who are there for them to understand how these children do not ask for help.

My ex-husband was molested as a child. His molester was a person who his highly-educated and professional job level mother paid big $$$$$ to take him for the summer on hiking/camping/adventure trips to the Teton Mountains in Wyoming. This man molested many young boys over the years.

Pedophiles seek out victims that are needy and that they can control. My ex's mother was on her fourth husband during the time of the assaults. His step-dad showed little interest in him, in fact, barely tolerated him. His birth father had bowed out of the picture years earlier while he was a toddler.

These young men become voiceless victims because they are desperate for the attention, guidance, protection, and love of a father-figure.

wfgodot
12-23-2011, 12:09 PM
Transcript: Joe Paterno’s Grand Jury Testimony (http://www.sportsbybrooks.com/transcript-joe-paterno-grand-jury-testimony-29933) (sportsbybrooks.com)

Dr.Fessel
12-23-2011, 01:08 PM
Transcript: Joe Paterno’s Grand Jury Testimony (http://www.sportsbybrooks.com/transcript-joe-paterno-grand-jury-testimony-29933) (sportsbybrooks.com)

Paterno was told Sandusky was doing something sexual with the boy, in a shower on the school grounds late at night, fondling the boy, and 28 year old McQueary was so upset from what he saw Paterno did not want to question him further.

But what the hell let's just sit on this because it is the weekend and let's not mess it up for anyone.

I guess the police take the weekend off there.

Dr.Fessel
12-23-2011, 01:13 PM
I actually thought he did quite well. Not a hero, but not a villain either.

Waiting 10 years to report the rape of a little boy to police and then only when they approached him and said they knew he had saw something did he come clean about it is pretty much a villain in my book.

strawberry
12-23-2011, 03:31 PM
Preliminary Hearing transcript:

http://www.hlntv.com/article/2011/12/23/penn-state-sandusky-sexual-abuse-case-gary-schultz-tim-curley-preliminary-hearing

ETA: Oops should have known Doc Fessel already posted. And should have known Pennlive would have it before HLN

BigCat
12-23-2011, 03:40 PM
Transcript: Joe Paterno’s Grand Jury Testimony (http://www.sportsbybrooks.com/transcript-joe-paterno-grand-jury-testimony-29933) (sportsbybrooks.com)

SPORTSbyBROOKS is hit or miss at times in his reporting; however, I'll give him credit for making an observation I haven't seen elsewhere.



By manner of questioning, it could not be more clear that the Grand Jury was protecting Paterno. 7 minutes. Asking for 'no graphic detail'?

http://twitter.com/#!/SPORTSbyBROOKS/status/150247031573712896

It's like a cover up of the cover up going on. Why aren't more people asking how come this scandal broke the week after Paterno won his 409th game, making him the all-time winningest division 1 football coach? Or questioning what exactly Paterno said to Tim Curley?

I need to not think about this case until after Christmas. :furious:

Reader
12-23-2011, 04:14 PM
SPORTSbyBROOKS is hit or miss at times in his reporting; however, I'll give him credit for making an observation I haven't seen elsewhere.




It's like a cover up of the cover up going on. Why aren't more people asking how come this scandal broke the week after Paterno won his 409th game, making him the all-time winningest division 1 football coach? Or questioning what exactly Paterno said to Tim Curley?

I need to not think about this case until after Christmas. :furious:

That still doesn't excuse Curley because according to the transcript of that hearing posted yesterday, Mike McQueary met with both Curley and Schultz and told them in person what he saw, describing it as a 'severe sexual' event.

As for the timing, that is my question, why at the time or for the next 8 or 9 years no one who knew about this cared enough to check on who that child was or to call the police/CYS to investigate a crime. It was only when another mother got involved to protect her child that this came to light. And why did the GJ investigation take so long?

Dr.Fessel
12-23-2011, 04:21 PM
SPORTSbyBROOKS is hit or miss at times in his reporting; however, I'll give him credit for making an observation I haven't seen elsewhere.




It's like a cover up of the cover up going on. Why aren't more people asking how come this scandal broke the week after Paterno won his 409th game, making him the all-time winningest division 1 football coach? Or questioning what exactly Paterno said to Tim Curley?

I need to not think about this case until after Christmas. :furious: They never even asked him if he knew the little boys name. They never asked him why he did not call 911.

Dr.Fessel
12-23-2011, 04:44 PM
All of them knew who that little boy was. There is no way they did not find that out or attempt to. That is such a small community it could have been anyone's son.

BigCat
12-23-2011, 04:53 PM
That still doesn't excuse Curley because according to the transcript of that hearing posted yesterday, Mike McQueary met with both Curley and Schultz and told them in person what he saw, describing it as a 'severe sexual' event.

As for the timing, that is my question, why at the time or for the next 8 or 9 years no one who knew about this cared enough to check on who that child was or to call the police/CYS to investigate a crime. It was only when another mother got involved to protect her child that this came to light. And why did the GJ investigation take so long?

I definitely don't excuse Curley and Schultz. I'm just struggling to better understand what Paterno did or did not do.


They never even asked him if he knew the little boys name. They never asked him why he did not call 911.

When you wrote "him," are you referring to Paterno or McQueary? I'm guessing you mean McQueary since, I don't believe, Paterno ever met with Curley and Schultz.

Dr.Fessel
12-23-2011, 05:02 PM
I definitely don't excuse Curley and Schultz. I'm just struggling to better understand what Paterno did or did not do.



When you wrote "him," are you referring to Paterno or McQueary? I'm guessing you mean McQueary since, I don't believe, Paterno ever met with Curley and Schultz.

I was referring to this.

By manner of questioning, it could not be more clear that the Grand Jury was protecting Paterno. 7 minutes. Asking for 'no graphic detail'?

http://twitter.com/#!/SPORTSbyBROOKS...47031573712896

I meant Paterno. The grand jury never asked him why he did not call 911 when he heard a boy was molested in the showers. They never asked him if he knew the boys name either.

MagnoliaMom
12-23-2011, 05:12 PM
http://communities.washingtontimes.com/neighborhood/media-migraine/2011/dec/23/ethical-gray-area-gray-area-reporter-arrested-dui-/


NBC News reporter Jay Gray was reportedly arrested for driving under the influence after leaving the home of the attorney representing former Penn State football defensive coordinator Jerry Sandusky, charged with child sex abuse.


Amendola’s objective was apparently to "allow” reporters access to lobby him to get an exclusive interview with the alleged child molester.

J. J. in Phila
12-23-2011, 08:46 PM
Waiting 10 years to report the rape of a little boy to police and then only when they approached him and said they knew he had saw something did he come clean about it is pretty much a villain in my book.

He did report it to his supervisor, and then to the effective chief of police.

Tipstaff
12-24-2011, 08:43 AM
I was referring to this.

By manner of questioning, it could not be more clear that the Grand Jury was protecting Paterno. 7 minutes. Asking for 'no graphic detail'?

http://twitter.com/#!/SPORTSbyBROOKS...47031573712896

I meant Paterno. The grand jury never asked him why he did not call 911 when he heard a boy was molested in the showers. They never asked him if he knew the boys name either.

Paterno was disingenuous in his testimony. The only point he even attempted to make was that Sandusky wasn't a coach, had been a coach briefly and he wasn't associated with Sandusky.

We all know this isn't true. There was a point in time that certain people thought Sandusky was heading toward being the head coach at Penn State.

Joe Paterno has been the "Power" at Penn State and the way he passed this off to his 'boss' is simply his own CYA.

The questioning of Paterno was so poor it could have been completed by a 5th grader.

This grand jury questioning of Paterno shows the reverential treatment he received in and around Penn State.

Paterno looks even worse after reading his testimony - HE WAITED before bringing this to the attention of his boss because it was the weekend. Wonder if JoPA would have waited if this were his kids or grandkids.

Dr.Fessel
12-24-2011, 09:33 AM
He did report it to his supervisor, and then to the effective chief of police. I don't think he did report it. I think he just told some people about what he saw and became a willing participant in the coverup of it and knew he would benefit in the long run from it by keeping his mouth shut.

He knew what he saw was a horrible crime and instead of calling his dad he could have called 911 and they would have caught them in the shower.

Mike was 28 years old, and after his meetings with Paterno then Curley and Schultz and none of them asked him to write out a statement to what he saw he knew the coverup was going on and he was fine with it. When he saw there were no secretary's taking notes at any of these meetings, when he saw he was not going through offices where a secretary would note a visit he knew.

He knew a little boy getting raped was a serious criminal charge that warranted more then telling someone not to bring kids into the showers anymore. But he knew he would be paid good for his silence and he was for 8 or 9 years.

J. J. in Phila
12-24-2011, 10:32 AM
I don't think he did report it. I think he just told some people about what he saw and became a willing participant in the coverup of it and knew he would benefit in the long run from it by keeping his mouth shut.


He reported it to his supervisor, Paterno, which was the legal requirement in 2002. Paterno reported it Curley. Then Curley and Schultz spoke with McQueary. Schultz was head of the police force. All the parties agree that these things happened.



He knew what he saw was a horrible crime and instead of calling his dad he could have called 911 and they would have caught them in the shower.


They had stopped as soon as they saw McQueary. I can easily understand McQueary being stunned.

Now, should Paterno, considering his influence, have done some follow-up. Yes. McQueary was not in the position to really do follow-up in 2002.

Dr.Fessel
12-24-2011, 11:23 AM
He reported it to his supervisor, Paterno, which was the legal requirement in 2002. Paterno reported it Curley. Then Curley and Schultz spoke with McQueary. Schultz was head of the police force. All the parties agree that these things happened.



They had stopped as soon as they saw McQueary. I can easily understand McQueary being stunned.

Now, should Paterno, considering his influence, have done some follow-up. Yes. McQueary was not in the position to really do follow-up in 2002.

To me the mandatory reporting means nothing in this case. I am not a mandatory reporter and never have been. Most of the people in the US are not. I can watch a rape or murder and never get in any kind of trouble for not calling the cops or telling anyone about it.

I believe McQueary and I would have stood on the same footing seeing the rape of that little boy in the shower. Both of us would know a rape was taking place and it was a felony and 911 should be called. We then diverge when he goes in to his office and calls his dad instead of calling the police.

Really we diverge earlier when Mike seeing the rape does not say a word or goes and pulls Jerry off the little boy, he instead goes in and slams his locker then goes back and looks in the shower and they are apart. At that point in time Jerry does not know if Mike saw anything. As far as he knew for sure Mike did not see anything and the locker shutting was just the reason they stopped before caught.

I don't believe for a minute what the least you had to do when faced with the rape of a child under the mandatory reporting law played into his decision to not call 911. I believe the things that played into his decisions were absolutely self serving. He knew bringing out this great shame of a little boy being raped in a Penn State Locker Room by a famous previous coach of Penn State would destroy his career. The messenger is shot in real life. I also believe it clicked in his mind going along with a coverup would further his career.

StellarsJay
12-24-2011, 03:26 PM
The moment that Dr.Fessell is talking about brings together some things for me- being fascinated as a kid by a book on building magician's boxes and once seeing a magician help the pretty girl he had just sliced to bits step out of the box unharmed; as a young woman helping set up one of the first rape crisis centers (win!); as a retiree trying to write a novel on ancient Greece (fail!)
The last is why I think this was intercrural intercourse- no penetration. Probably requires penetration to constitute rape. McQueary lacked vocabulary and to some extent if there are no words for it a thing cannot be.

I've tried to understand McQueary. Woulda, coulda, shoulda.

He did go back a third time.

He hasn't said what his intent was in that moment- it seems likely that if Sandusky had still been on the kid, he intended to get him off. Instead, he confronts an apparently unhurt kid and a blank Sandusky. The magician's assistant has been produced from the box, a final disorienting thing.
As a rape counsellor, I would have tried not to further traumatize the kid. A fight might have, a stranger trying to take him away would have. Woulda backed off from a fight since they were separated. As a woman I can't really imagine triggering a fight so can't go there.

Coulda talked- said hello, asked the kid his name, if he was OK. Getting the kids name would have been great protection agains him disappearing. That's the best suggestion.
Coulda waited around. Assertive presence.
Instead headed for a phone. Sandusky would wonder how much was seen, if he might call cops. Wouldn't continue.

Shoulda phoned the cops. Might have intended to? Would they have believed him? If they did, and were next door and took the kid away to a shelter etc- maybe worse trauma?
Phoned his father, who he probably thinks of as a kind of doctor. Former medical corps.
Got talked out of it by Dranov, his dad's boss. (Who later did a CYA by meeting with Schultz.)
Maybe at this point everyone genuinely thought someone else would do something wonderful. Probably only Mike and maybe Joe were naive enough to hope for this.

When it was evident that was all--
Mike shoulda, shoulda, shoulda shoulda called Child Protection, or real cops, or both.
Or sent an anonymous letter or....

The present investigation found McQueary because of a posting on a forum about something once seen at Penn State- and someone else has implied that that poster might have been McQueary.

I expect that Curley and Spanier have hated Paterno for years, watching the tiger's teeth fall out, waiting for him to get out of their way. In 1998 he was 71, still powerful, but not sharp enough to know how much they were hiding from him. In 2002, at 74, they knew he would let it slide.

Tiki
12-24-2011, 05:54 PM
He reported it to his supervisor, Paterno, which was the legal requirement in 2002. Paterno reported it Curley. Then Curley and Schultz spoke with McQueary. Schultz was head of the police force. All the parties agree that these things happened.



They had stopped as soon as they saw McQueary. I can easily understand McQueary being stunned.

Now, should Paterno, considering his influence, have done some follow-up. Yes. McQueary was not in the position to really do follow-up in 2002.

BBM
They stopped?
I think you mean JS stopped - I doubt the boy was participating.
moo
.

Reader
12-24-2011, 08:16 PM
All of them knew who that little boy was. There is no way they did not find that out or attempt to. That is such a small community it could have been anyone's son.


What happened to the suggestion from JS's lawyer that JS gave Curley the boy's name and phone#?

I did not find this stated anywhere in reading Curley's testimony...just that JS told him at first that he had not been at the showers that day, and then came back later and said he might have been there that day.

Was this just a lie put out by Amendola to try to make JS look better, that he had cooperated with the so-called inquiry Curley was making, which really didn't exist?

Oh to be a fly on the wall at the JS/Curley meeting! Wonder what kind of deal they made to keep it all quiet?

al66pine
12-24-2011, 08:45 PM
I don't know how I got to this website w. link below, and except for a clip of Tyler Perry & Oprah, I've never seen a movie or TV show w. him.
But, God bless'im for writing an open letter to the Penn State/Sandusky victims.

http://collegecandy.com/2011/12/03/tyler-perry-writes-letter-to-penn-state-11-year-old/

excerpt:
I was a very poor young black boy (http://collegecandy.com/2008/06/25/jd-cannibal-family-was-just-following-their-religion) in New Orleans, just a face without a name, swimming in a sea of poverty trying to survive. Forget about living, I was just trying to exist. I was enduring a lot of the same things that you’ve come forward and said happened to you, and it was awful. I felt so powerless. I knew what was happening to me, but unlike you, I couldn’t speak about it because no one saw me. I was invisible and my voice was inaudible.


So to think that you, when you were only 11 years old, spoke up—you are my hero! I’m so proud of you. You have nothing to be ashamed of. I want you to know you didn’t do anything wrong. It’s not your fault. Please know that you were chosen by a monster. You didn’t choose him. You didn’t ask for it and, most of all, you didn’t deserve it. What a huge lesson that was for me to learn. Your 11-year-old self was no match for wicked, evil tactics of this kind. You were hunted like prey. A pedophile looks for the young boys he thinks he can manipulate. The ones who have daddy or mommy issues, the ones who are broken, and the ones who are in need. But this wasn’t you.

Thank you, Mr. Perry.

(P.S. Mods-- I do not know how to remove the "inner link" re young black boy in the quote, and do not know why it is there.
If you can remove, pls do)

Reader
12-24-2011, 09:05 PM
I definitely don't excuse Curley and Schultz. I'm just struggling to better understand what Paterno did or did not do.


When you wrote "him," are you referring to Paterno or McQueary? I'm guessing you mean McQueary since, I don't believe, Paterno ever met with Curley and Schultz.

BBM

Oh no, I didn't mean to imply that you were excusing Curley...I was just saying that even if Paterno didn't tell all he knew from McQueary, Curley still got it directly from MM later, so HE had no excuse for not reporting to the police/CYS since MM flat out told him and Schultz it was a severe sexual assault. And Schultz had no excuse for not referring it to the campus police dept. which he supervised.

WHY these 2 men didn't do what they were required by law to do is the question to me. Why was this considered differently than the 1998 episode which had been investigated? Was it because Sandusky no longer worked for the school and they didn't want it known they were still letting him bring children to the facilities?

How would an investigation have affected Paterno and the football program? He was not a witness of the incident and he reported it to his boss as required, the minimum, but he didn't try to hide it, he just passed it on and stepped aside. JS wasn't even working for Paterno anymore so how would that stop Paterno trying to reach his record of wins?

How would it have negatively affected the school as a whole? It would/could have been seen as a good thing for these men to stop a sexual abuser and protect a child and other children once the rest came out as it has now.

Could it really be because of the deal on building the Village, posted about previously? Was it because of the school's involvement with the Second Mile?

The fact that they did not report this has had the most negative effect of all...costing all of them their jobs, charges against Curley and Schultz, putting the football team in limbo and causing questions about the reputation of the entire school, costing jobs and funding at the Second Mile.

I just don't understand the purpose of the cover up or why they thought this would work? They knew about 1998 and now in 2002, did they really think JS would stop? They admitted they could not force him to stop bringing children to the school. What did they achieve with this stupid decision that has only resulted in a big ol FAIL for everybody, most of all the additional children JS abused?

Reader
12-24-2011, 10:15 PM
He reported it to his supervisor, Paterno, which was the legal requirement in 2002. Paterno reported it Curley. Then Curley and Schultz spoke with McQueary. Schultz was head of the police force. All the parties agree that these things happened.



They had stopped as soon as they saw McQueary. I can easily understand McQueary being stunned.

Now, should Paterno, considering his influence, have done some follow-up. Yes. McQueary was not in the position to really do follow-up in 2002.

BBM

If McQueary was afraid of following up because of his job, he could do what thousands of abuse reporters do every day: pick up the phone and make an anonymous report to the CYS or police.

I will say that even though MM apparently went along with the program (whatever that was) for a long time, once he was identified as a witness, he did testify (I think) strongly and truthfully about what he saw. He showed no fear of Curley or Schultz in telling the grand jury and testifying in the perjury preliminary hearing. In fact, it was noted that he stared pointedly at Curley when speaking. I'm glad at least that he has come thru in the end and these men have to go to trial for their cover up. I think one reason JS/Amendola were afraid of their preliminary hearing is they didn't want MM to be heard testifying so strongly about what he saw. Some doubts have been professed (not here) about the boys' motives for coming forward and waiting so long to do so, but no one could doubt what MM says he saw.

Tipstaff
12-25-2011, 08:37 AM
The moment that Dr.Fessell is talking about brings together some things for me- being fascinated as a kid by a book on building magician's boxes and once seeing a magician help the pretty girl he had just sliced to bits step out of the box unharmed; as a young woman helping set up one of the first rape crisis centers (win!); as a retiree trying to write a novel on ancient Greece (fail!)
The last is why I think this was intercrural intercourse- no penetration. Probably requires penetration to constitute rape. McQueary lacked vocabulary and to some extent if there are no words for it a thing cannot be.

I've tried to understand McQueary. Woulda, coulda, shoulda.

He did go back a third time.

He hasn't said what his intent was in that moment- it seems likely that if Sandusky had still been on the kid, he intended to get him off. Instead, he confronts an apparently unhurt kid and a blank Sandusky. The magician's assistant has been produced from the box, a final disorienting thing.
As a rape counsellor, I would have tried not to further traumatize the kid. A fight might have, a stranger trying to take him away would have. Woulda backed off from a fight since they were separated. As a woman I can't really imagine triggering a fight so can't go there.

Coulda talked- said hello, asked the kid his name, if he was OK. Getting the kids name would have been great protection agains him disappearing. That's the best suggestion.
Coulda waited around. Assertive presence.
Instead headed for a phone. Sandusky would wonder how much was seen, if he might call cops. Wouldn't continue.

Shoulda phoned the cops. Might have intended to? Would they have believed him? If they did, and were next door and took the kid away to a shelter etc- maybe worse trauma?
Phoned his father, who he probably thinks of as a kind of doctor. Former medical corps.
Got talked out of it by Dranov, his dad's boss. (Who later did a CYA by meeting with Schultz.)
Maybe at this point everyone genuinely thought someone else would do something wonderful. Probably only Mike and maybe Joe were naive enough to hope for this.

When it was evident that was all--
Mike shoulda, shoulda, shoulda shoulda called Child Protection, or real cops, or both.
Or sent an anonymous letter or....

The present investigation found McQueary because of a posting on a forum about something once seen at Penn State- and someone else has implied that that poster might have been McQueary.

I expect that Curley and Spanier have hated Paterno for years, watching the tiger's teeth fall out, waiting for him to get out of their way. In 1998 he was 71, still powerful, but not sharp enough to know how much they were hiding from him. In 2002, at 74, they knew he would let it slide.


Excellent post. Thank you. The dynamics you present here, at least to me, reveal the turmoil that went on in this situation.

Way more thoughts, way more discussion, way more ways to manage the Sandusky problem went on in Penn State than has been presented to date in this case.


I hope it all comes out at trial but I don't believe it will get that far. I believe Sandusky will get many visits from the powers that be to take a plea and SAVE Penn State.

Again, terrific post.

Rlaub44
12-25-2011, 07:36 PM
All of them knew who that little boy was. There is no way they did not find that out or attempt to. That is such a small community it could have been anyone's son.

I'm not so sure that would have been so simple a task. The Second Mile served kids from several counties in Central PA, and from everything I've read, the Penn State staff apparently just looked at those children as "Jerry's Kids". The boy would not have been readily known to Paterno, Curley or Schultz.

Should they have attempted to determine his identity? Absolutely, but I doubt anyone ever did.

BigCat
12-25-2011, 11:55 PM
I'm not so sure that would have been so simple a task. The Second Mile served kids from several counties in Central PA, and from everything I've read, the Penn State staff apparently just looked at those children as "Jerry's Kids". The boy would not have been readily known to Paterno, Curley or Schultz.

Should they have attempted to determine his identity? Absolutely, but I doubt anyone ever did.

We know for a fact that Schultz and Curley never attempted to find out the boy's identity. They were specifically, and repeatedly, asked that question in their grand jury testimony.

Rlaub44
12-26-2011, 12:18 AM
We know for a fact that Schultz and Curley never attempted to find out the boy's identity. They were specifically, and repeatedly, asked that question in their grand jury testimony.

Exactly. The post I was replying to suggested that all of them knew who the boy was, but IMO nobody cared to try to find out. McQueary and Paterno didn't seem to feel it was their place to, and Curley and Schultz didn't care to.

al66pine
12-26-2011, 01:32 AM
Perjury prelim hearing transcript has excerpts from Jan.2011 Gr.Jury transcript, in which both Curley and Schultz introduce Cynthia Baldwin, accompanying them as "counsel" to each of them.

She is Vice President and General Counsel for Penn State University and a former Justice of the Penn Supreme Court.

The perjury transcript shows, at Dec. 2011 prelim hearing, Curley was rep'ed by his own counsel, Ms Roberto, and
Schultz is rep'ed by Mr Farrell.

No more U. counsel for them.

I wonder who is paying their tabs now.

azwriter
12-26-2011, 02:21 AM
Paterno was disingenuous in his testimony. The only point he even attempted to make was that Sandusky wasn't a coach, had been a coach briefly and he wasn't associated with Sandusky.

We all know this isn't true. There was a point in time that certain people thought Sandusky was heading toward being the head coach at Penn State. Joe Paterno has been the "Power" at Penn State and the way he passed this off to his 'boss' is simply his own CYA.

The questioning of Paterno was so poor it could have been completed by a 5th grader.

This grand jury questioning of Paterno shows the reverential treatment he received in and around Penn State.

Paterno looks even worse after reading his testimony - HE WAITED before bringing this to the attention of his boss because it was the weekend. Wonder if JoPA would have waited if this were his kids or grandkids.

Can I pick out one sentence (BBM) in your post and add this: Jerry's entire hometown and former high school classmates expected he was to take over for Joe as head coach. There was a great disappointment and rumors that mean old Joe took back his promise when we all learned Jerry had retired because he found out he wasn't going to be head coach at PSU. That's the story we all heard.

So, it was more than certain people, it was a hell of a lot of people in Washington, PA who were counting on Jerry to be next in line. I know, I was a classmate of his. And Jerry's retirement was a shock and Joe was labled a louse. But, now, sadly we have a better idea of what really happened. just my O.

Reader
12-26-2011, 02:36 AM
One section of the perjury preliminary hearing transcript was very interesting to me...the testimony of Agent Sassano of the AG's office.

For one thing, he stated they didn't learn about the 2002 incident until Nov. 2010. It seems as the AG's office began their investigation they learned of one child from another child, except for this case which has been indicated came from an anonymous source.

Another statement he made was about how the CYS and police department worked together, as I had thought and as has been my personal experience. He stated:

A. Well, CYS, as you know, cannot file charges. They do an investigation. They cannot actually file charges, so they work in conjunction with the police department.

Q. So, by what you just said, you don't know if there was any sort of investigation by CYS independent of a police department?

A. Independent of a police department, no. They do them with the police department. It's a joint venture....It's one and the same essentially.

I will add that not all CYS cases are worked with the police dept. Most of the time, it's a situation that can be handled by CYS, such as working with the family with the children in the home, placing the child in a relative's home with the agreement of the parent, removing the child to emergency shelter and filing for state custody with the juvenile court. However, if CYS feels a crime such as sexual abuse has been committed, they refer to either the police department (or in my state the State's Attorney); at times the police dept. has the case first and calls CYS in to handle the children and their placement. But information is shared in order to have the best placement and to prepare for court. Very seldom does the CYS worker have to actually testify (altho I've testified before a GJ) but the police dept./SA's office gathers their evidence from actual witnesses of the abuse, parents, doctors, hospital records, and the child/children.

Reader
12-26-2011, 05:52 PM
Second Mile’s Insurance Company Wants Nothing To Do With Jerry Sandusky

http://deadspin.com/jerry-sandusky/

You know you are having a bad year when even an insurance company looks at you with that "yeeesh" look. Well, that is essentially what attorneys for Federal Insurance—the company that insures Second Mile—did in their recently filed lawsuit in federal court in Williamsport. The complaint argues that Federal Insurance should not have to pay legal expenses or fees for Sandusky because it "would be wrong...because he is accused of conduct that did not involve his position as an executive or employee of The Second Mile, a charity for at-risk youth he founded in 1977."

Perhaps Federal Insurance has not read the grand jury presentment in its entirety—one could argue that coach Sandusky is accused of conduct that is at the very heart, and possibly the sole purpose, of the "charity for at-risk youth he founded in 1977."


Amendola has his usual face-palm inducing response....geesh!


More at link...

Tipstaff
12-26-2011, 06:08 PM
Second Mile’s Insurance Company Wants Nothing To Do With Jerry Sandusky

http://deadspin.com/jerry-sandusky/

You know you are having a bad year when even an insurance company looks at you with that "yeeesh" look. Well, that is essentially what attorneys for Federal Insurance—the company that insures Second Mile—did in their recently filed lawsuit in federal court in Williamsport. The complaint argues that Federal Insurance should not have to pay legal expenses or fees for Sandusky because it "would be wrong...because he is accused of conduct that did not involve his position as an executive or employee of The Second Mile, a charity for at-risk youth he founded in 1977."

Perhaps Federal Insurance has not read the grand jury presentment in its entirety—one could argue that coach Sandusky is accused of conduct that is at the very heart, and possibly the sole purpose, of the "charity for at-risk youth he founded in 1977."


Amendola has his usual face-palm inducing response....geesh!


More at link...

Well Jerry is 'repugnant'.

More likely the insurance company is seeing the writing on the wall - so many children 'allegedly' abused by Sandusky and so many charges he needs to be defended from. If Sandusky is found guilty or takes a plea just imagine the money.

Looks like a preemptive strike by the insurance company.

Who is paying Amendola at this point Sandysky or this Insurance Company? And further if it is the insurance company does prevail does Amendola quit if Sandusky can't pay?

This begs the question does the State of Pennsylvania have to give Sandusky a Public Defender? IIRC isn't the house up as part of Sandusky's bond?

al66pine
12-27-2011, 12:16 AM
The quote below is from abovethelaw.com, from a poster responding to http://abovethelaw.com/2011/11/joe-paterno-better-lawyer-up/#disqus_thread a Nov, 10th article. Maybe most everyone else saw this back then, but I missed it.

Take a
look at the attorney/general counsel for Second Mile. Who was the
attorney for Penn State at the time of the first Sandusky incident in
1999. That attorney - Wendall Courtney - he left Penn
State to be counsel for Second Mile. I want to be clear that he left a
nationally ranked university to become general counsel for the charity
of a guy (Sandusky) that Courtney knew was alleged to have raped a 10
year old. BBM

I cannot vouch for truth of the stmt.
But if true, once he was at 2d Mile, what did Wendall do, what steps did he take, who did he notify -- the Bd/Tee's, the ED, etc. re what he knew about Jer?
Wonder what the ethics rules say, about what, if anything, he could lawfully disclose?

Who are Mandated Reporters re suspected child abuse in PA?

A possible clash btwn atty Ethics rules and mandated reporters reqmts?

TobyWong*
12-27-2011, 08:55 AM
I just saw a blurb on HLN about a family friend that said sandusky's wife was concerned someone would take jerry the wrong way. I searched the HLN site but couldn't find anything. Did anyone catch it? So hard to search on phone. TIA

Tipstaff
12-27-2011, 09:05 AM
I just saw a blurb on HLN about a family friend that said sandusky's wife was concerned someone would take jerry the wrong way. I searched the HLN site but couldn't find anything. Did anyone catch it? So hard to search on phone. TIA

Just did a google search and the last statements from Mrs. Sandusky are Dec. 10. Nothing currently.

Tipstaff
12-27-2011, 09:17 AM
Per the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette today another Civil Law Suit has been filed against Sandusky. This information is part of the article in which the Insurance Company files an action to NOT pay for Sandusky's legal costs. Link follows.
.

"The insurance lawsuit was filed Friday, the day after notice of the second civil suit was filed by a man who claimed Mr. Sandusky had sexually abused him.

The man was identified in court filings as "C. Miller." He filed notice Thursday in Philadelphia of an impending lawsuit against the retired coach. The lawsuit also names Penn State and The Second Mile as defendants.

Mr. Sandusky has denied all criminal and civil charges against him."



Read more: http://postgazette.com/pg/11361/1199523-454.stm#ixzz1hjySB28S

BennyProfane
12-27-2011, 11:12 AM
I just saw a blurb on HLN about a family friend that said sandusky's wife was concerned someone would take jerry the wrong way. I searched the HLN site but couldn't find anything. Did anyone catch it? So hard to search on phone. TIA

I didn't see the HLN story, but it sounds like they're basing their story on this article from pennlive.com that came out last night:

http://www.pennlive.com/midstate/index.ssf/2011/12/jerry_sanduskys_wife_dottie.html

Concerned Papa
12-27-2011, 12:39 PM
The quote below is from abovethelaw.com, from a poster responding to http://abovethelaw.com/2011/11/joe-paterno-better-lawyer-up/#disqus_thread a Nov, 10th article. Maybe most everyone else saw this back then, but I missed it.

Take a
look at the attorney/general counsel for Second Mile. Who was the
attorney for Penn State at the time of the first Sandusky incident in
1999. That attorney - Wendall Courtney - he left Penn
State to be counsel for Second Mile. I want to be clear that he left a
nationally ranked university to become general counsel for the charity
of a guy (Sandusky) that Courtney knew was alleged to have raped a 10
year old. BBM

I cannot vouch for truth of the stmt.
But if true, once he was at 2d Mile, what did Wendall do, what steps did he take, who did he notify -- the Bd/Tee's, the ED, etc. re what he knew about Jer? Wonder what the ethics rules say, about what, if anything, he could lawfully disclose?

Who are Mandated Reporters re suspected child abuse in PA?

A possible clash btwn atty Ethics rules and mandated reporters reqmts?

In answer to your question, I suppose it boils down to a choice as to who or what to believe. Do you believe all of these CYA statements from various board members and officials of TSM?


Former board members of Jerry Sandusky’s charity say its CEO never told them about a 2002 shower incident that is the focus of child sexual abuse charges against the retired Penn State assistant coach. If they knew Sandusky had been banned from bringing kids on campus, they say they could have taken steps to better protect children a decade ago.

“Not one thing was said to us,’’ said Bradley P. Lunsford, a Centre County judge who served on the Second Mile board between 2001 and 2005. “Not a damn thing.’’

http://articles.boston.com/2011-12-19/sports/30534966_1_sexual-abuse-second-mile-joe-paterno

Or do you believe as I do, that a board member would have to be brain dead to escape any awareness of this freak's actions?

TobyWong*
12-27-2011, 02:21 PM
I didn't see the HLN story, but it sounds like they're basing their story on this article from pennlive.com that came out last night:

http://www.pennlive.com/midstate/index.ssf/2011/12/jerry_sanduskys_wife_dottie.html

Yes, this is it. Thank you.


from article:
“She did talk to Jerry. She had concerns just that — I think she was concerned that people could perceive things the wrong way,” he said. “Not child rape, that’s a whole different category. But I think she generally had some concern that someone could falsely accuse him. He had problems with the boundary issue.”

She knew enough to have a talk w/ him. It was on her mind. She knew he went to far. IMO. "problems w/ the boundary issue" yeah that's a given. imo

StellarsJay
12-27-2011, 04:03 PM
Compared with other Penn State characters, the Sanduskys may have very little income- pension of about $60K (which he may lose), $57K as a contract from Second Mile until recently. An early story said he took out a $25K mortgage on his house last year that might have been Amendola's retainer.
So, could Dottie afford a housekeeper or did she clean that basement bedoom herself? Who did the laundry?
To be oblivious, I think Dottie had to be sedated- booze? Pills? Religion? Battered?

al66pine
12-27-2011, 05:43 PM
Several posts upthread re 2d Mile, Concerned Papa [Thank you, Papa] said:

"...Or do you believe as I do, that a board member would have to be brain dead to escape any awareness of this freak's actions?"

I think even brain dead bd members wd be aware, as long as they had not yet bn put six feet under.

al66pine
12-27-2011, 06:22 PM
The punch line:
Which version makes U sound less culpable re coming civil trials re allowing JerSan to (…um, allegedly…er) commit and cont. committing ChSexAb acts on its campus for years? ---
--- Jer accepted U's offer of 'enhanced ret. package' and retired in 1999 with no other motivation, which is what came out in GrJury proceeding.
--- After being made aware in 1998 of evidence of Jer’s perversion, U asked him to leave quietly, which is widely circulated rumor, at least now.

The lead-in:
Jan 2011 GrJury, both Curley and Schultz said they were accompanied by Cynthia Baldwin, as counsel, U VP and gen counsel, who was also former Justice of Pa Supreme Court.
Atty from AG’s ofc. questioned Schultz about JerSan's departure from the U, eliciting this ---in 1998 for a certain time only, JerSan was eligible for an enhanced ret. Package, a ret. incentive, and he ret’ed. He also asked if there were other reasons JerSan retired then. Schultz said no.

Why the questions? Are these answers, Just the Facts, Ma'am, or something more?

Does anyone detect the hand of U counsel, before the GrJury proceeding, prompting Schultz to squeeze into his answers that ’ret. incentive’ bit and to deny any other motivations for JerSan ret. then.

BTW, anyone know if U offered ret. w. incentives in 1998-99?

Was this to draw attention away from actual reason for JerSan's retirement at that time?

The back story, thru MSM:
After 1998 JerSan & boy 'sharing shower' (and maybe after CYS & LE investigation of same),
did JoePa tell JerSan he thought is “best to make a coaching change” quoting Schultz, p. 209.
Is that when (~June 1998) & how JerSan learned he wd never be head coach & 'decided' to retire?

Again:
Which version makes U sound less culpable re coming civil trials re allowing JerSan to (…um, allegedly…er) commit and cont. committing ChSexAb acts on its campus for years? ---
--- JerSan accepted U's offer of 'enhanced ret. package' and retired in 1999 with no other motivation.
--- After being made aware in 1998 of evidence of JerSan’s shower sharing w boys and other ChSexAb on campus, U asked him to leave quietly.

Yeah, enhanced ret. package, that's the ticket. Yeah, that's why JerSan left when he did.

al66pine
12-27-2011, 07:09 PM
From the organization's website, with my bolding *& color added to text:

http://www.thesecondmile.org/images/titles/programsAndServices.gifPrevention

"Effective prevention programs provide strategies that significantly influence children's behavior and skills through hands-on education, positive role models, and skill-building activities. The philosophy of The Second Mile prevention programs is that "it is easier to develop a child than to rehabilitate an adult." These programs are designed to help large numbers of students acquire the coping skills and positive values they need for healthy development."

Concerned Papa
12-27-2011, 07:35 PM
Not sure how I missed this little gem of an article:


Second Mile Camp Had Cross Dressing

A former Berks County camp operator speaks about summer camp programs run by the Second Mile, the foundation started by former Penn State coach Jerry Sandusky.

"Camp counselors cross dressing for one of the evening events with children. The following year now they [had] some of the boys cross dressing," he says.

Lehr also said shower curtains would be taken down when Second Mile was at the camp.

"In hindsight you kind of look back and give it a second thought now," he says.

http://www.myfoxphilly.com/dpp/sports/penn_state/second-mile-camp-had-cross-dressing-111411

Looks like this camp operator dude can get in that "I didn't know nothing" line with all the other board members and officials who are claiming they were "shocked, I tell ya, shocked" when the chit hit the fan on this freak. Cross dressing and shower curtains off and this genius is trying to claim it took hindsight for him to figure out something was wrong?

http://i941.photobucket.com/albums/ad257/Papa813_bucket/n21074049356_632247_2332-1.jpg

I've got a feeling a jury or two is going to have the opportunity to consider whether this kind of ignorance claim is logical or actionable.

Reader
12-27-2011, 07:39 PM
Dottie Sandusky Maintains Her Husband’s Innocence, May Go On Oprah With Him

http://deadspin.com/jerry-sandusky/

Dottie Sandusky, who publicly defended her husband's innocence for the first time earlier this month, may join Jerry for another televised interview after the new year. Jerry Sandusky's lawyer, Joe Amendola, told the Harrisburg Patriot-News this week that the two may sit down with Oprah, Barbara Walters, or even return to Brian Williams's Rock Center—since the first visit went so very well.
-----

Sandusky's attorney, Joe Amendola, said Dottie Sandusky doesn't have an attorney and sees no need for one.


More at link....

ThoughtFox
12-27-2011, 07:45 PM
Yes, this is it. Thank you.


from article:
“She did talk to Jerry. She had concerns just that — I think she was concerned that people could perceive things the wrong way,” he said. “Not child rape, that’s a whole different category. But I think she generally had some concern that someone could falsely accuse him. He had problems with the boundary issue.”

She knew enough to have a talk w/ him. It was on her mind. She knew he went to far. IMO. "problems w/ the boundary issue" yeah that's a given. imo

OMG ~ and that wins my prize for Understatement of the Year! :maddening:

ThoughtFox
12-27-2011, 07:46 PM
Dottie Sandusky Maintains Her Husband’s Innocence, May Go On Oprah With Him

http://deadspin.com/jerry-sandusky/

Dottie Sandusky, who publicly defended her husband's innocence for the first time earlier this month, may join Jerry for another televised interview after the new year. Jerry Sandusky's lawyer, Joe Amendola, told the Harrisburg Patriot-News this week that the two may sit down with Oprah, Barbara Walters, or even return to Brian Williams's Rock Center—since the first visit went so very well.
-----

Sandusky's attorney, Joe Amendola, said Dottie Sandusky doesn't have an attorney and sees no need for one.


More at link....

Their lawyer must be insane to let them talk with Oprah or anybody else!

Don't they know that Oprah is a child-abuse survivor herself? And she'll probably have Dr. Phil or someone on there with her asking questions too.

Steely Dan
12-27-2011, 08:05 PM
Their lawyer must be insane to let them talk with Oprah or anybody else!

Don't they know that Oprah is a child-abuse survivor herself? And she'll probably have Dr. Phil or someone on there with her asking questions too.

Their lawyer hasn't proven to be a mensa candidate so far. JMO

StellarsJay
12-27-2011, 09:05 PM
http://www.pennlive.com/midstate/index.ssf/2011/12/hear_no_evil_new_book_about_th.html

The Patriot News has cobbled together an e-book called "Hear No Evil"- for sale through Amazon's Kindle for $2.99. I've just finished reading it and am disappointed- the news part ends November 19th with Paterno's cancer announcement and the entire text is mostly football and sentimental social comment-I hoped for some new hard news but didn't notice anything new about the criminal case and the account ends before either perliminary hearing.

So this makes me a vulture? Maybe.
I'd rather have donated the entire $3 to a victims charity.

Reader
12-27-2011, 09:10 PM
Sandusky Adding New Lawyer For Suits

http://www.myfoxphilly.com/dpp/sports/penn_state/sandusky-adding-new-lawyer-for-suits

.......His criminal defense lawyer, Joe Amendola, said Friday he had not seen the complaint, filed in federal court in Williamsport. Amendola said Sandusky was served Wednesday with a lawsuit filed in Philadelphia by one alleged victim and was getting a different lawyer to represent him in civil cases.

Rlaub44
12-27-2011, 09:39 PM
In answer to your question, I suppose it boils down to a choice as to who or what to believe. Do you believe all of these CYA statements from various board members and officials of TSM?



Or do you believe as I do, that a board member would have to be brain dead to escape any awareness of this freak's actions?

I don't know. To me, it's easier to believe that Raykovitz kept all of his knowledge to himself than to suggest all of the board members are lying.

Having served on a board for a local social service agency, I knew nothing about the day-to-day operations, nor would I have been aware of any rumors or scuttlebutt.

Judge Lunsford was a respected jurist in the area - would he really have been so committed to protecting Sandusky or the Second Mile that he would have placed himself in such a position? Again, in my opinion, it is more likely that Sandusky's actions weren't widely shared with the board members, even if only out of concern that one rogue member might have taken action.

There may have been an inner circle with whom information was shared, but I doubt it was known among the rank-and-file. Most of them just weren't invested enough to have purposefully looked the other way.

Concerned Papa
12-27-2011, 11:10 PM
I don't know. To me, it's easier to believe that Raykovitz kept all of his knowledge to himself than to suggest all of the board members are lying.

Having served on a board for a local social service agency, I knew nothing about the day-to-day operations, nor would I have been aware of any rumors or scuttlebutt.

Judge Lunsford was a respected jurist in the area - would he really have been so committed to protecting Sandusky or the Second Mile that he would have placed himself in such a position? Again, in my opinion, it is more likely that Sandusky's actions weren't widely shared with the board members, even if only out of concern that one rogue member might have taken action.

There may have been an inner circle with whom information was shared, but I doubt it was known among the rank-and-file. Most of them just weren't invested enough to have purposefully looked the other way.

I suppose anything's possible, but I've got a problem in buying into the notion of an abundance of ignorance on the part of these TSM board members and officials.

Take this Judge for example.

In a place no bigger than his circuit or area, do you really think it's likely or even logical that more than one child rape investigation of the public figurehead of an organization he is a board member of would escape his awareness? Do you really think he doesn't have a friend in LE, CPS or the SA's office who wouldn't make him aware of what was being looked into for his own reputation's sake?

How about TSM's CEO, Dr. Jack Raykovitz? According to the grand jury report, he knew about the investigations into this freak's actions. Are you really suggesting that he wouldn't and didn't make any of the other board members aware of the issue? Do you think he at least told his wife, the longest term employee in the organization?

Last, but certainly not least, we have Attorney Wendall Courtney who was aware of the whole enchilada regarding TSM's public figurehead. He's supposed to have come on board as their counsel and not made the board aware of these investigations? Aside from the basic moral obligations at play, I'm of the opinion that there were certain fiduciary responsibilities on his part in making the organization aware of what had been/was being investigated. How likely or logical is it that an attorney would have been so committed to protecting Sandusky that he would have placed himself in such a position of not telling ANYONE?

The FACTS that have been coming out have shown us that aside from MANY VICTIMS and their families, janitors, coaches, high school principals, and teachers knew about this freak. Members of LE, District Attorneys, State Attorneys, and even a Gubernatorial candidate knew about this freak.

Yet somehow, these wealthy captains of industry, jurists, and intellectual scholars who made up TSM's board of directors and trustees were supposed to have been in blissful ignorance of what this animal was doing to the children of The Second Mile? I'll even give them the benefit of the doubt that possibly they believed in "the greater good" of the organization or something of that sort, but there's no way I can believe the Judge Lunsford's of this mess who are singing loud and strong that “Not one thing was said to us, Not a damn thing.’’

I can't buy it.

StellarsJay
12-28-2011, 12:07 AM
Lawyer Courtnay is claiming not to have known anything in 1998-9 0r 2002:
“I was never made aware of the alleged incidents of sexual misconduct regarding Sandusky until I read about them in the AG’s presentment,” Courtney said. When pressed, however, he said he became aware in 2009 that a report of possible misconduct by Sandusky with a boy had been made to Clinton County authorities and was being investigated.

http://www.centredaily.com/2011/11/17/2989371/courtney-denies-knowledge-of-acts.html

Concerned Papa
12-28-2011, 08:00 AM
Lawyer Courtnay is claiming not to have known anything in 1998-9 0r 2002:

“I was never made aware of the alleged incidents of sexual misconduct regarding Sandusky until I read about them in the AG’s presentment,” Courtney said. When pressed, however, he said he became aware in 2009 that a report of possible misconduct by Sandusky with a boy had been made to Clinton County authorities and was being investigated.

http://www.centredaily.com/2011/11/17/2989371/courtney-denies-knowledge-of-acts.html

Why does this not surprise me?

In similiar fashion to Judge Bradley P. Lunsford's statement of “Not one thing was said to us,’’ “Not a damn thing’’, here's another player, completely immersed in both the judicial system and the inbred comingled affairs of a University and this freak's play pen, attempting to claim ignorance despite DIRECT grand jury testimony to the contrary.

I'm not buying it for one second.

wfgodot
12-28-2011, 12:32 PM
Lengthy, interesting look at the new boy:

Penn State President Rodney Erickson has reputation of being practical, personable (http://www.pennlive.com/midstate/index.ssf/2011/12/rodney_erickson_penn_state_san.html)

---
He spent his first news conference talking about the past and the two men who had dominated the school until the very moment they had been forced aside not 48 hours earlier, Graham Spanier and Joe Paterno.

He filmed a YouTube video talking directly to the camera, hostage-like, in a clipped monotone about one of the saddest weeks in the history of Penn State.

When he has appeared since — in halftime commercials, email blasts, town hall meetings with students and faculty — he has offered few new specifics or rhetorical flair. Instead, he repeats the same themes: The terrible nature of the allegations against Jerry Sandusky, Tim Curley and Gary Schultz. Tragedy. Support for alleged victims. Commitment to transparency. Core values. Five promises. Moving forward.

For the moment, those talking points have been his whole message. But how much longer can that work?
---
much more at pennlive.com link above

StellarsJay
12-28-2011, 01:08 PM
Good article on Second Mile insurer's fight not to pay Sandusky's bills:

"But at the same time, it is incorrect and downright specious for Federal to argue that Sandusky's actions were not committed in his capacity as an official at Second Mile. Yes, none of the alleged crimes actually took place at Second Mile, but it was because of his stewardship of the program that Sanduksy had access to the youngsters against whom he is alleged to have committed these heinous crimes. And Sandusky met all eight alleged victims mentioned in the grand jury report at Second Mile."http://www.realclearsports.com/articles/2011/12/27/firms_attempt_to_disown_sandusky_is_specious_97543 .html

BTW, is Amendola implying that if Dorothy did need a lawyer she shouldn't have the same one as Jerry?

Steely Dan
12-28-2011, 02:05 PM
I suppose anything's possible, but I've got a problem in buying into the notion of an abundance of ignorance on the part of these TSM board members and officials.

Take this Judge for example.

In a place no bigger than his circuit or area, do you really think it's likely or even logical that more than one child rape investigation of the public figurehead of an organization he is a board member of would escape his awareness? Do you really think he doesn't have a friend in LE, CPS or the SA's office who wouldn't make him aware of what was being looked into for his own reputation's sake?

How about TSM's CEO, Dr. Jack Raykovitz? According to the grand jury report, he knew about the investigations into this freak's actions. Are you really suggesting that he wouldn't and didn't make any of the other board members aware of the issue? Do you think he at least told his wife, the longest term employee in the organization?

Last, but certainly not least, we have Attorney Wendall Courtney who was aware of the whole enchilada regarding TSM's public figurehead. He's supposed to have come on board as their counsel and not made the board aware of these investigations? Aside from the basic moral obligations at play, I'm of the opinion that there were certain fiduciary responsibilities on his part in making the organization aware of what had been/was being investigated. How likely or logical is it that an attorney would have been so committed to protecting Sandusky that he would have placed himself in such a position of not telling ANYONE?

The FACTS that have been coming out have shown us that aside from MANY VICTIMS and their families, janitors, coaches, high school principals, and teachers knew about this freak. Members of LE, District Attorneys, State Attorneys, and even a Gubernatorial candidate knew about this freak.

Yet somehow, these wealthy captains of industry, jurists, and intellectual scholars who made up TSM's board of directors and trustees were supposed to have been in blissful ignorance of what this animal was doing to the children of The Second Mile? I'll even give them the benefit of the doubt that possibly they believed in "the greater good" of the organization or something of that sort, but there's no way I can believe the Judge Lunsford's of this mess who are singing loud and strong that “Not one thing was said to us, Not a damn thing.’’

I can't buy it.


I don't know. To me, it's easier to believe that Raykovitz kept all of his knowledge to himself than to suggest all of the board members are lying.

Having served on a board for a local social service agency, I knew nothing about the day-to-day operations, nor would I have been aware of any rumors or scuttlebutt.

Judge Lunsford was a respected jurist in the area - would he really have been so committed to protecting Sandusky or the Second Mile that he would have placed himself in such a position? Again, in my opinion, it is more likely that Sandusky's actions weren't widely shared with the board members, even if only out of concern that one rogue member might have taken action.

There may have been an inner circle with whom information was shared, but I doubt it was known among the rank-and-file. Most of them just weren't invested enough to have purposefully looked the other way.

I think both of you make good points. I think it is possible that they wanted to keep it out of the boardroom altogether. However, I also find it hard to believe that someone on the board didn't know anything about it.

Rlaub44
12-28-2011, 07:09 PM
I suppose anything's possible, but I've got a problem in buying into the notion of an abundance of ignorance on the part of these TSM board members and officials.

Take this Judge for example.

In a place no bigger than his circuit or area, do you really think it's likely or even logical that more than one child rape investigation of the public figurehead of an organization he is a board member of would escape his awareness? Do you really think he doesn't have a friend in LE, CPS or the SA's office who wouldn't make him aware of what was being looked into for his own reputation's sake?

How about TSM's CEO, Dr. Jack Raykovitz? According to the grand jury report, he knew about the investigations into this freak's actions. Are you really suggesting that he wouldn't and didn't make any of the other board members aware of the issue? Do you think he at least told his wife, the longest term employee in the organization?

Last, but certainly not least, we have Attorney Wendall Courtney who was aware of the whole enchilada regarding TSM's public figurehead. He's supposed to have come on board as their counsel and not made the board aware of these investigations? Aside from the basic moral obligations at play, I'm of the opinion that there were certain fiduciary responsibilities on his part in making the organization aware of what had been/was being investigated. How likely or logical is it that an attorney would have been so committed to protecting Sandusky that he would have placed himself in such a position of not telling ANYONE?

The FACTS that have been coming out have shown us that aside from MANY VICTIMS and their families, janitors, coaches, high school principals, and teachers knew about this freak. Members of LE, District Attorneys, State Attorneys, and even a Gubernatorial candidate knew about this freak.

Yet somehow, these wealthy captains of industry, jurists, and intellectual scholars who made up TSM's board of directors and trustees were supposed to have been in blissful ignorance of what this animal was doing to the children of The Second Mile? I'll even give them the benefit of the doubt that possibly they believed in "the greater good" of the organization or something of that sort, but there's no way I can believe the Judge Lunsford's of this mess who are singing loud and strong that “Not one thing was said to us, Not a damn thing.’’

I can't buy it.


You pretty much named the small, inner circle I referred to. What would Raykovitz gain by sharing the warnings he received from Curley, as well as any other knowledge he may have had, with the full board? If you want to keep things secret, and effect the cover-up people are suggesting, you have to be extremely sure of the people you include.

I don't know Judge Lunsford, but if you were the CEO of the Second Mile, and you learned that very bad acts were being perpetrated by the charity's founder and public face, would you be likely to tell a retired judge?

I know you feel strongly about this Papa, but I just don't think it is very likely. We will probably never know for certain exactly who knew what, but we already have plenty of people that we can be sure were in a position to do something, but didn't.

Concerned Papa
12-28-2011, 07:58 PM
You pretty much named the small, inner circle I referred to. What would Raykovitz gain by sharing the warnings he received from Curley, as well as any other knowledge he may have had, with the full board? If you want to keep things secret, and effect the cover-up people are suggesting, you have to be extremely sure of the people you include.

I don't know Judge Lunsford, but if you were the CEO of the Second Mile, and you learned that very bad acts were being perpetrated by the charity's founder and public face, would you be likely to tell a retired judge?

I know you feel strongly about this Papa, but I just don't think it is very likely. We will probably never know for certain exactly who knew what, but we already have plenty of people that we can be sure were in a position to do something, but didn't.

Thank You for your reply.

I don't know any of these players either but, particularly in the case of Judge Lunsford, irregardless of what the CEO may or may not have told him, wouldn't you think it would be prudent for any other member of the judicial system who was privy to the information to be certain a Judge who was also a TSM board member was made aware for his own reputation's sake?

If you KNEW about this freak and DIDN'T tell the Judge,

-How would you like to be a member of LE needing this judge to sign off on a future search warrant?

-How about if you were an attorney and KNEW but DIDN'T tell this judge, could you really look forward to trying a case in his courtroom?

-What about a CPS worker needing this Judge to sign off on an order to remove a child from one parent and give to the other parent?

-How would you like to be the District Attorney in charge of this freak's investigation if you DIDN'T tell a Judge who was also on TSM's board? Wouldn't you be concerned that this Judge could develop a problem with some of your future motions and pleadings?

I don't necessarily believe that everyone knew about Sandusky's actions, but I do believe that some of the ones claiming ignorance the loudest very likely did.

Reader
12-28-2011, 09:10 PM
Good article on Second Mile insurer's fight not to pay Sandusky's bills:

"But at the same time, it is incorrect and downright specious for Federal to argue that Sandusky's actions were not committed in his capacity as an official at Second Mile. Yes, none of the alleged crimes actually took place at Second Mile, but it was because of his stewardship of the program that Sanduksy had access to the youngsters against whom he is alleged to have committed these heinous crimes. And Sandusky met all eight alleged victims mentioned in the grand jury report at Second Mile."http://www.realclearsports.com/articles/2011/12/27/firms_attempt_to_disown_sandusky_is_specious_97543 .html

BTW, is Amendola implying that if Dorothy did need a lawyer she shouldn't have the same one as Jerry?

From your link this is interesting:

For Federal to try to avoid association with an alleged child molester is entirely understandable. It's not as if the company had known all along about the Sandusky rumors and was just now starting to flee the scene.

But if Sandusky's "secret" was whispered about in the cloistered community, as some say it was, could Federal have possibly known about it?

More to the point, this case shows that there must be a heightened degree of due diligence with insurance companies. As soon as rumblings of problems with Sandusky emerged at Penn State, especially when he was let go so quickly by the school, everyone involved with Second Mile should have been paying greater attention.

BigCat
12-28-2011, 09:31 PM
You pretty much named the small, inner circle I referred to. What would Raykovitz gain by sharing the warnings he received from Curley, as well as any other knowledge he may have had, with the full board? If you want to keep things secret, and effect the cover-up people are suggesting, you have to be extremely sure of the people you include.

I don't know Judge Lunsford, but if you were the CEO of the Second Mile, and you learned that very bad acts were being perpetrated by the charity's founder and public face, would you be likely to tell a retired judge?

I know you feel strongly about this Papa, but I just don't think it is very likely. We will probably never know for certain exactly who knew what, but we already have plenty of people that we can be sure were in a position to do something, but didn't.

But Curley never warned Raykovitz about any "very bad acts" involving Sandusky. In fact, the opposite happened: Curley told Raykovitz that an investigation cleared Sandusky of any wrongdoing.

azwriter
12-29-2011, 03:32 AM
From your link this is interesting:

For Federal to try to avoid association with an alleged child molester is entirely understandable. It's not as if the company had known all along about the Sandusky rumors and was just now starting to flee the scene.

But if Sandusky's "secret" was whispered about in the cloistered community, as some say it was, could Federal have possibly known about it?

More to the point, this case shows that there must be a heightened degree of due diligence with insurance companies. As soon as rumblings of problems with Sandusky emerged at Penn State, especially when he was let go so quickly by the school, everyone involved with Second Mile should have been paying greater attention.

Reader, your point is so well stated that the retirement should have raised some questions. I would guess that Jerry had an answer and reason for his retirement at the ready, if he were asked. But a part of me says, maybe some of these people did not want to know the reason, the real reason. I'm always amazed at intelligent, highly regarded people who often shy away from anything that may render them "involved" in case something illegal comes along.

When I was on the board of directors for a local Boys & Girls Club, if the director even spit on the sidewalk, I wanted to know about it. But then, I was working as a newspaper reporter then so my curosity was always on point.

But sadly there are people who make it a point of not knowing the exact story. And often tell themselves it's just a rumor and they want no parts of it. Great Post Reader.
Just my O

Quiche
12-29-2011, 01:29 PM
Imo, no one associated with TSM or Penn State wanted to know anything about Sandusky abusing children-- each and every time there was a whiff of impropriety, they collectively, and intentionally, buried their heads in the sand as to avoid the fall of the house of cards we've witness in this past month. The only real question I have is was there a conspiracy to bury the facts???? That insurance company should sit down and shut up before they're sued for everything they have going, if you ask me.

Ultimately, we're talking about Penn State, JoePa, and all the revenue/business that entails for the entire region. Sandusky, though a bit player, had them ALL by the b*lls... He got to do what he desired right under their noses, out in the open, in front of them, in well lit public spaces. He flaunted it, lived within reach of a schoolyard, pulled kids from public schools for his own gratification, all the rules were broken. Routinely. He, himself, was untouchable! Audacious as the devil himself.

Until Mike McQueary needed to clear his conscience-- or maybe, he was making a grab for the ring, who knows. (but with JoePa's sudden health decline, I wonder if Mike knew that time was short for Paterno no matter what).

In short, that entire region wished this away-- that's why he got away with it for so long. MOO

BigCat
12-29-2011, 02:21 PM
Imo, no one associated with TSM or Penn State wanted to know anything about Sandusky abusing children-- each and every time there was a whiff of impropriety, they collectively, and intentionally, buried their heads in the sand as to avoid the fall of the house of cards we've witness in this past month. The only real question I have is was there a conspiracy to bury the facts???? That insurance company should sit down and shut up before they're sued for everything they have going, if you ask me.

Ultimately, we're talking about Penn State, JoePa, and all the revenue/business that entails for the entire region. Sandusky, though a bit player, had them ALL by the b*lls... He got to do what he desired right under their noses, out in the open, in front of them, in well lit public spaces. He flaunted it, lived within reach of a schoolyard, pulled kids from public schools for his own gratification, all the rules were broken. Routinely. He, himself, was untouchable! Audacious as the devil himself.

Until Mike McQueary needed to clear his conscience-- or maybe, he was making a grab for the ring, who knows. (but with JoePa's sudden health decline, I wonder if Mike knew that time was short for Paterno no matter what).

In short, that entire region wished this away-- that's why he got away with it for so long. MOO

Excellent assessment, Quiche. My only point of difference is that I believe you're giving McQueary too much credit. If it wasn't for the mother of victim one reporting Sandusky to authorities, McQueary may have remained silent.

Concerned Papa
12-29-2011, 02:33 PM
Imo, no one associated with TSM or Penn State wanted to know anything about Sandusky abusing children-- each and every time there was a whiff of impropriety, they collectively, and intentionally, buried their heads in the sand as to avoid the fall of the house of cards we've witness in this past month. The only real question I have is was there a conspiracy to bury the facts???? That insurance company should sit down and shut up before they're sued for everything they have going, if you ask me.

Ultimately, we're talking about Penn State, JoePa, and all the revenue/business that entails for the entire region. Sandusky, though a bit player, had them ALL by the b*lls... He got to do what he desired right under their noses, out in the open, in front of them, in well lit public spaces. He flaunted it, lived within reach of a schoolyard, pulled kids from public schools for his own gratification, all the rules were broken. Routinely. He, himself, was untouchable! Audacious as the devil himself.

Until Mike McQueary needed to clear his conscience-- or maybe, he was making a grab for the ring, who knows. (but with JoePa's sudden health decline, I wonder if Mike knew that time was short for Paterno no matter what).

In short, that entire region wished this away-- that's why he got away with it for so long. MOO

I tend to agree with what you are saying and, frankly, it leaves me dumbfounded. How did this freak have them by the b*lls? Your descriptive term of "bit player" certainly sums up all that I can see about him, so what was his drawing card that caused people not to see or care about what he was flaunting right in their faces? His nonprofit TSM certainly wasn't an income center for a 4.6 BILLION dollar per year University, but something made an awful lot of people stick their heads deep in the sand. I can readily believe the TSM officials fearing a loss of revenue, but what in the hell was the big concern for Spainer, Schultz, Curley, and Paterno? Were they really just sweating some kind of rah, rah, go team go, we are Penn State BS because they had presented this chump as a larger than life defensive guru? I hate to break it to em, but I could go into a few NCAA record books and find any number of defensive coaches whose team statistics made ole Jer's defenses pale in comparison. The complete apathy for this animal's victims is something I've grasped at understanding since he was exposed.

I wish I could ask these captains of industry and intellectual scholars who are now claiming they didn't know or notice a thing, one question. What if it wasn't little boys that tripped this freak's trigger, but instead it was five dollar crack ho's. Would they have noticed him parading that kind of lil darlin to team functions, parties, and the like? Wonder if the missus would still be proclaiming his innocence and her outrage at the besmirching of his hallowed character if he had drug a steady string of crack ho's down to her basement over the past couple of decades?

StellarsJay
12-29-2011, 03:36 PM
If this donation was irrevocable, Lunsford will stay p'd off the rest of his life.

"Judge Bradley P. Lunsford has donated parts of his estate through a living trust to the Second Mile, according to the organization's 2010 annual report. He also recently made a $500 donation to the charity on behalf of the State College Elks Club."
http://athleticbusiness.com/articles/lexisnexis.aspx?lnarticleid=1547918160&lntopicid=136030023

I was picturing Lunsford as an old guy so I looked him up. He's about 50?
http://centrecountygazette.com/brad-lunsford-p611-103.htm

I was wondering if there was much age stratification in this cast of characters in how they might have made up their circles, picturing a young Raykovitz not talking to an old Lunsford- but not so, they are contemporaries.

StellarsJay
12-29-2011, 03:51 PM
Quiche sums up:
"Sandusky, though a bit player, had them ALL by the b*lls... He got to do what he desired right under their noses, out in the open, in front of them, in well lit public spaces. He flaunted it, lived within reach of a schoolyard, pulled kids from public schools for his own gratification, all the rules were broken. Routinely. He, himself, was untouchable! Audacious as the devil himself."

Home confinement (with Dottie) must be making him crazier- a big TV interview would break the monotony. Any bets on how long before he is caught breaching his GPS boundaries or blowing up in some other instinctive way?

ThoughtFox
12-29-2011, 03:55 PM
Quiche sums up:
"Sandusky, though a bit player, had them ALL by the b*lls... He got to do what he desired right under their noses, out in the open, in front of them, in well lit public spaces. He flaunted it, lived within reach of a schoolyard, pulled kids from public schools for his own gratification, all the rules were broken. Routinely. He, himself, was untouchable! Audacious as the devil himself."

Home confinement (with Dottie) must be making him crazier- a big TV interview would break the monotony. Any bets on how long before he is caught breaching his GPS boundaries or blowing up in some other instinctive way?

I've been wondering that myself, StellarsJay. This is not a guy who knows how to control himself too well, as his interviews display.

I think as the pressure gets more intense, he will either incriminate himself with some outlandish statement, or will start lashing out at others involved in this, from the victims to the other guys from Penn State. When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro, as they say.

angelmom
12-29-2011, 03:58 PM
I tend to agree with what you are saying and, frankly, it leaves me dumbfounded. How did this freak have them by the b*lls? Your descriptive term of "bit player" certainly sums up all that I can see about him, so what was his drawing card that caused people not to see or care about what he was flaunting right in their faces? His nonprofit TSM certainly wasn't an income center for a 4.6 BILLION dollar per year University, but something made an awful lot of people stick their heads deep in the sand. I can readily believe the TSM officials fearing a loss of revenue, but what in the hell was the big concern for Spainer, Schultz, Curley, and Paterno? Were they really just sweating some kind of rah, rah, go team go, we are Penn State BS because they had presented this chump as a larger than life defensive guru? I hate to break it to em, but I could go into a few NCAA record books and find any number of defensive coaches whose team statistics made ole Jer's defenses pale in comparison. The complete apathy for this animal's victims is something I've grasped at understanding since he was exposed.

I wish I could ask these captains of industry and intellectual scholars who are now claiming they didn't know or notice a thing, one question. What if it wasn't little boys that tripped this freak's trigger, but instead it was five dollar crack ho's. Would they have noticed him parading that kind of lil darlin to team functions, parties, and the like? Wonder if the missus would still be proclaiming his innocence and her outrage at the besmirching of his hallowed character if he had drug a steady string of crack ho's down to her basement over the past couple of decades?

I don't know, but my personal suspicion is that after the first time they all gave him the benefit of the doubt (and we may not even know about that yet, or it may be the shower incident with McQueary), every other time after that Jerry may have mentioned the trouble they and the school would be in for not turning him in back then.

I cannot even begin to imagine what else he could have on so many people to keep them quiet. The brain drifts off to thinking maybe they were all in some horrible pedo ring, but I have to believe that victims of at least one of them would have spoken up by now, or that one of the current victims would name another perp if that were true.

I am routinely astonished by the lengths some people will go to in order to cover up a crime - sometimes even committing a greater crime than they are covering up.

al66pine
12-29-2011, 06:41 PM
Spheres of influence, circles of trust, one big happy family, RICO ties, whatever you want to call it---->

Judge Lunsford, a member of 2d Mile bd/tt'ees, was quoted in http://centrecountygazette.com/brad-lunsford-p611-103.htm

“The first award I ever received was the State College Police Department’s O.F. Brown Memorial Award for good citizenship,” he said. “That meant a lot to me as well.” [emphasis added]


Thanks to Stellars Jay for linking that article, several posts upthread.

al66pine
12-29-2011, 08:52 PM
Interesting to see the nitty gritty on what theoretically might happened if, on seeing shower 'incident' w. JerSan and boy in 2002, grad asst MMcQ had followed what appears to be SOP (at least in locations other than the Lasch Bldg).

http://guru.psu.edu/policies/SY05.html#C
Policy SY05 PERSONS, OTHER THAN STUDENTS OR EMPLOYEES, WHO ARE INJURED OR BECOME ILL ON UNIVERSITY PROPERTY

PURPOSE:

To outline the University's policy regarding accidents or sudden illnesses occurring on University property and involving persons other than students or employees and to provide mechanisms to document such occurrences for appropriate handling.
EMERGENCY ASSISTANCE:

It is the policy and intent of the University to render emergency assistance to anyone who is injured or stricken with sudden illness while on University property. The University has an Emergency Medical Services system in place to respond to medical emergencies. The EMS system is activated by calling the local emergency number, such as 911. This EMS system also includes assistance that may be provided at the work unit through treatment at the medical care facility and includes trained and professional staff.
REPORTING ACCIDENTS OR ILLNESSES:

After the necessary initial assistance has been given to an injured or suddenly ill person, an immediate report of the circumstances should be made as specified below.
--------------------------------------------------------------------
(Details follow, along w. effective dates, revision dates, etc.)

================================================== ===

If then-grad asst MMcQ had followed above proc in 2002, w/out checking further up the chain, would further assaults, rapes, etc. on campus still have transpired?

HMSHood
12-29-2011, 09:11 PM
Imo, no one associated with TSM or Penn State wanted to know anything about Sandusky abusing children-- each and every time there was a whiff of impropriety, they collectively, and intentionally, buried their heads in the sand as to avoid the fall of the house of cards we've witness in this past month. The only real question I have is was there a conspiracy to bury the facts???? That insurance company should sit down and shut up before they're sued for everything they have going, if you ask me.

Ultimately, we're talking about Penn State, JoePa, and all the revenue/business that entails for the entire region. Sandusky, though a bit player, had them ALL by the b*lls... He got to do what he desired right under their noses, out in the open, in front of them, in well lit public spaces. He flaunted it, lived within reach of a schoolyard, pulled kids from public schools for his own gratification, all the rules were broken. Routinely. He, himself, was untouchable! Audacious as the devil himself.

Until Mike McQueary needed to clear his conscience-- or maybe, he was making a grab for the ring, who knows. (but with JoePa's sudden health decline, I wonder if Mike knew that time was short for Paterno no matter what).

In short, that entire region wished this away-- that's why he got away with it for so long. MOO

Good assessment. That inner circle is very closed minded.

Dr.Fessel
12-29-2011, 09:26 PM
I put some trust in Freeh that he will come out in his report and tell what a sham the Second Mile is.

I see charts in the future with arrows showing money going in from Penn State and money coming back from Second Mile to people like Paterno and the football team.

I think we are going to find out they were selling some of the most expensive decks of cards and videos ever sold on the market.

They quit getting grants for a reason back in the 80's and imo the reason they did that is so there was no oversight of what they were really up too.

Steely Dan
12-29-2011, 09:56 PM
I tend to agree with what you are saying and, frankly, it leaves me dumbfounded. How did this freak have them by the b*lls? Your descriptive term of "bit player" certainly sums up all that I can see about him, so what was his drawing card that caused people not to see or care about what he was flaunting right in their faces? His nonprofit TSM certainly wasn't an income center for a 4.6 BILLION dollar per year University, but something made an awful lot of people stick their heads deep in the sand. I can readily believe the TSM officials fearing a loss of revenue, but what in the hell was the big concern for Spainer, Schultz, Curley, and Paterno? Were they really just sweating some kind of rah, rah, go team go, we are Penn State BS because they had presented this chump as a larger than life defensive guru? I hate to break it to em, but I could go into a few NCAA record books and find any number of defensive coaches whose team statistics made ole Jer's defenses pale in comparison. The complete apathy for this animal's victims is something I've grasped at understanding since he was exposed.

I wish I could ask these captains of industry and intellectual scholars who are now claiming they didn't know or notice a thing, one question. What if it wasn't little boys that tripped this freak's trigger, but instead it was five dollar crack ho's. Would they have noticed him parading that kind of lil darlin to team functions, parties, and the like? Wonder if the missus would still be proclaiming his innocence and her outrage at the besmirching of his hallowed character if he had drug a steady string of crack ho's down to her basement over the past couple of decades?

I believe somewhere upthread (one of the threads about this) someone posted an article about the black players being threatened. A black student tells a reporter that during the threats against black players, that occurred several years ago, a group of black students met with JoePa in his office and wanted to know why he wouldn't publicize the threats. IIRC, his answer was something like he'd never do anything that would put the university in a bad light. Other things may have come up in the past that Sandusky saw covered up and when the situation with McQueary occurred it just assured him that something would never be done about it and he could continue on without any fear. The universities reputation was the most important thing in happy valley.

al66pine
12-29-2011, 10:26 PM
“Discrimination or harassment against faculty, staff, or students will not be tolerated…”
[emphasis added]
Penn St’s Affirmative Action Office’s Sexual Harassment brochure, p. 4
http://student (http://student) affairs.psu.edu/women center/AA-SH.pdf

“Examples of Sexual Harassment:
“…unwelcome patting, hugging, or touching of a person’s body, hair, or clothing.”
The U. must really mean it because (ex) President Graham B. Spanier’s name & siggy are on referenced brochure.
After all, the U policy AD-41 states: “Prompt corrective measures will be taken to stop sexual harassment whenever and wherever it occurs.”

Whoops, forgot to ban harassment and sexual assaults against little (non-student, non-faculty) boys
by faculty who like to share U. showers and assault them.
Maybe bans little boys from harassing and making sexual assaults against faculty or staff in U. showers?
Ok, I’ll dial down the snark/sarc. for now.

Not much help for a boy assaulted by faculty or a grad asst. witness on what to do,
if grad asst wanted to do the right thing for the victim.

Maybe other U. pub’s offers guidance.

al66pine
12-29-2011, 10:55 PM
http://ucr.psp.state.pa.us/UCR/Reporting/RptMain.asp

I linked to this, clicked Centre County, clicked year 2010, clicked Pennsylvania State Univ, then got this:
http://ucr.psp.state.pa.us/ibi_apps/WFServlet?IBIF_ex=RUREP01&MAPAREA=14

Help me interp this correctly.

Last yr,
U had 21 Sex Rel. Off's; Co. had 129 Sex Rel. Off's, or 87.2 per 100,000 pop. Correct?
The County’s 129 figure included the U’s 21 rapes. Correct?

U had 55 assaults; Co had 739, or 499.3 per 100,000 pop. Correct?

Is ANYONE familiar w. these reports?

Thx in Adv.

J. J. in Phila
12-29-2011, 11:31 PM
I

I was picturing Lunsford as an old guy so I looked him up. He's about 50?
http://centrecountygazette.com/brad-lunsford-p611-103.htm



47-49, he graduated after me.

Reader
12-30-2011, 01:56 AM
[/B]

Reader, your point is so well stated that the retirement should have raised some questions. I would guess that Jerry had an answer and reason for his retirement at the ready, if he were asked. But a part of me says, maybe some of these people did not want to know the reason, the real reason. I'm always amazed at intelligent, highly regarded people who often shy away from anything that may render them "involved" in case something illegal comes along.

When I was on the board of directors for a local Boys & Girls Club, if the director even spit on the sidewalk, I wanted to know about it. But then, I was working as a newspaper reporter then so my curosity was always on point.

But sadly there are people who make it a point of not knowing the exact story. And often tell themselves it's just a rumor and they want no parts of it. Great Post Reader.
Just my O

Thanks, azwriter, but that quote came from this link that StellarsJay posted above:

http://www.realclearsports.com/articles/2011/12/27/firms_attempt_to_disown_sandusky_is_specious_97543 .html

One excuse that JS and others have given for his early retirement were the 'enhanced benefits' that supposedly were available for a limited time.

BBM in your post

I've come to accept that people are just like that most of the time. There are very few heroes for children who need them. Even when child abuse is right in front of their faces they won't report until the child is traumatized, injured or dead. Then they can tell all about the bruises they saw and the screams they heard. I think they are afraid to get involved until someone in authority is there and then they feel somewhat protected from the parents' wrath.

In JS's case, what he was doing was so sordid and unacceptable that even if some had suspicions, people were reluctant to make these accusations against such a prominent person in Penn St. and Second Mile without absolute proof. If they were wrong or it could not be proven then their own reputation would be ruined. The only one who did actually witness an assault by JS on a little boy and reported it, saw it passed around by his superiors without much result and was reluctant to buck the system without their backing.

These crimes thrive on being secret; abuse of children, women, men and animals grows in the darkness of fear of contagion and retribution.

Reader
12-30-2011, 02:22 AM
PSU case highlights stakes for programs

Read more here: http://www.centredaily.com/2011/12/28/3032935/psu-case-highlights-stakes-for.html#storylink=cpy

Mike McQueary’s words couldn’t have come at a worse time. Paterno was trying to fix the Nittany Lions’ money-making football program he built on a motto of “Success with Honor,” after the low point of his coaching career. The university was near the end of a $1.4 billion fundraising campaign, six years removed from the opening of a $55 million basketball arena and had just expanded the football stadium to the nation’s second biggest.
-----

The dependence of universities on sports to help fund everything including money-losing gymnastics teams and general scholarships has created a system where the needs of coaches and their programs supersede the educational values of their institutions, said Robin Harris, executive director of the Ivy League, whose schools don’t give athletic scholarships.It also creates an environment where a coach like Paterno had the power to tell the university’s president that he wouldn’t help raise another penny if the school’s top disciplinarian wasn’t fired for being too strict with his players.
-----

Penn State football generated $63.3 million in fiscal 2010, about 60 percent of the athletic department’s revenue.Coaches like Paterno are the most powerful people at their universities, including the presidents, said Lewis Katz, a former owner of the NBA’s New Jersey Nets who donated $15 million to Penn State and whose name appears on the campus law school building.“Football trumps everything at Penn State,” Katz said. “There’s nothing that comes close to second.”
------

John Lahey, president of Quinnipiac University, said the biggest headaches in college sports seem to come from the more visible and valuable teams.“When any part of the university, in this case athletics, becomes so important to the university, to the university’s brand, image, resources, as certainly is the case with the Penn State football program, it can cloud the better judgment of people with high intelligence and integrity,” Lahey said at the IMG Intercollegiate Athletics Forum in New York this month.


More at link....

Concerned Papa
12-30-2011, 09:37 AM
I think the article in Reader's post above does a great job of offering an explanation for why good people turned a blind eye to this animal's actions:


Coaches like Paterno are the most powerful people at their universities, including the presidents, said Lewis Katz, a former owner of the NBA’s New Jersey Nets who donated $15 million to Penn State and whose name appears on the campus law school building.

“Football trumps everything at Penn State,” Katz said. “There’s nothing that comes close to second.”

“There is so much money tied into big-time college athletics that it forces some people to make bad decisions,” Harris said. “They may be people affiliated with a program, or coaches and administrators who do things purposely wrong, or turn a blind eye, because they are focused on generating revenue and not necessarily the integrity of the enterprise.”

“When any part of the university, in this case athletics, becomes so important to the university, to the university’s brand, image, resources, as certainly is the case with the Penn State football program, it can cloud the better judgment of people with high intelligence and integrity,” Lahey said at the IMG Intercollegiate Athletics Forum in New York this month.

http://www.centredaily.com/2011/12/28/3032935/psu-case-highlights-stakes-for.html#storylink=cpy#storylink=cpy

It's difficult to find humor in this tragic situation, but the President of Ohio State University comes pretty close with what likely was a similiar position that Spainer, Curley, and Schultz found themselves in:


Ohio State’s football program had an operating profit of about $18.2 million last year. It hired Urban Meyer, a two-time national title winner at the University of Florida, as coach last month at $4 million a year, more than triple the $1.3 million paid in the fiscal year ending June 2010 to Gordon Gee, the Columbus, Ohio, university’s president.

Meyer, 47, succeeded Jim Tressel, who quit in May in a memorabilia-selling scandal involving top players. Tressel produced a national championship at Ohio State before the NCAA said he kept information about rule-breaking from school administrators for more than nine months. Asked early in the case if he was going to fire Tressel, Gee, 67, responded, “I hope he doesn’t fire me.”

SuziQ
12-30-2011, 09:19 PM
A teenager says he was raped by Jerry Sandusky inside his office in Penn State University’s football building in 2004 — two years after the ex-football coach was said to have had his campus keys taken away and was banned from bringing children into the building, the boy’s lawyer told FoxNews.com.

Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/us/2011/12/30/teen-accuses-ex-penn-state-coach-sandusky-raping-him-on-campus/#ixzz1i4SZ7w2j

angelmom
12-30-2011, 10:09 PM
A teenager says he was raped by Jerry Sandusky inside his office in Penn State University’s football building in 2004 — two years after the ex-football coach was said to have had his campus keys taken away and was banned from bringing children into the building, the boy’s lawyer told FoxNews.com.

Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/us/2011/12/30/teen-accuses-ex-penn-state-coach-sandusky-raping-him-on-campus/#ixzz1i4SZ7w2j


Nauseating:


Sandusky’s attorney Joe Amendola said the ban never happened.

“He wasn't banned from using Penn State facilities until November 2011," after criminal charges were filed in the broader case, Amendola told FoxNews.com. "Jerry was using Penn State facilities right up until the week before charges were filed."

Maybe Amendola thinks he's helping Jerry, but in actuality he's just hurting the Penn State crew AND Jerry. If he denied that Jerry had access it might have cast a shadow of doubt on this boy's allegations. Instead they are giving it even more credibility, and Penn State's plausible deniability is slipping even further away.

These people do NOT know when to shut up. I'm glad. It will make it easier to put them all in jail.

willow
12-30-2011, 10:21 PM
You know, I'm truly surprised that there haven't been more victims coming forward to press charges against this POS.

You KNOW this just didn't happen over night. What about the '70's, and the
'80's, etc.? I'd like to know about those years, too.:furious:

Quiche
01-02-2012, 10:06 PM
I think more victims will be coming forward in the near future-- this article would certainly draw more than a few out of silence. mo


Penn State scandal spurs liability coverage examination

January 1, 2012 - 6:00am

...Penn State President Rodney Erickson said the school's liability insurance will cover financial obligations arising from civil suits.

much more at link

http://www.businessinsurance.com/article/20120101/NEWS06/301019984?tags=|338|75|302

ThoughtFox
01-02-2012, 10:13 PM
You know, I'm truly surprised that there haven't been more victims coming forward to press charges against this POS.

You KNOW this just didn't happen over night. What about the '70's, and the
'80's, etc.? I'd like to know about those years, too.:furious:

I wouldn't be surprised if you went back to Jerry's late childhood and teenage years to find out that he had victims then who were younger than he was.

Predators just don't change over the years, although obviously he became more and more confident as he learned out to manipulate everyone around him to get what he wanted. :(

wfgodot
01-02-2012, 10:16 PM
Interesting attendee at PSU bowl game:

"Pedobear" Showed Up At The Houston-Penn State Game Today (http://deadspin.com/5872516/pedobear-showed-up-at-the-houston+penn-state-game-today) (Deadspin)

ThoughtFox
01-02-2012, 10:18 PM
A teenager says he was raped by Jerry Sandusky inside his office in Penn State University’s football building in 2004 — two years after the ex-football coach was said to have had his campus keys taken away and was banned from bringing children into the building, the boy’s lawyer told FoxNews.com.

Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/us/2011/12/30/teen-accuses-ex-penn-state-coach-sandusky-raping-him-on-campus/#ixzz1i4SZ7w2j

Just unreal ~ they ought to drag Curley back into a Grand Jury room and grill him again because someone is lying about what Jerry was "allowed" to do on campus. :maddening:

The incident allegedly occurred two years after ex-athletic director Tim Curley says Sandusky was banned from bringing Second Mile boys into the football building and had his keys taken away.

*snip* . . .

Schmidt said the university dropped the ball.

“They informed the Second Mile, told him he couldn’t bring boys around the locker room, took away keys to office building, but two years later he’s using the Lasch building as his office for the Second Mile program,” Schmidt said. “They were using part of the Lasch building for Second Mile activities… This is the same office he wasn’t supposed to have keys to—in the Lasch Building.”

Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/us/2011/12/30/teen-accuses-ex-penn-state-coach-sandusky-raping-him-on-campus/#ixzz1iMEQFGz4

Tipstaff
01-03-2012, 09:50 AM
It seems indicative of bigger and more public problems yet to come at Penn State that the search committee is having a difficult time hiring a football coach.

Possibly the potential candidates are being made aware or have their own vision of just how bad things are and will be for quite a long time at Penn State.

Watching this process with great interest.

Steely Dan
01-03-2012, 02:53 PM
Interesting attendee at PSU bowl game:

"Pedobear" Showed Up At The Houston-Penn State Game Today (http://deadspin.com/5872516/pedobear-showed-up-at-the-houston+penn-state-game-today) (Deadspin)


:laughcry:

Concerned Papa
01-03-2012, 05:02 PM
This <modsnip> might be better off just stepping into a cell and shutting the door on himself, at least, saving the expense of the caliber of legal eagles he's hired for his defense.

Jer's newest counselor, Karl Rominger, recently whined :boohoo::


“Even if this person is a perpetrator, now that this is national news it seems to be that people are coming forward suddenly remembering things… anyone coming forward in this matter—you have to question their motivation. Everyone knows about how much money’s involved here.”

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2011/12/30/teen-accuses-ex-penn-state-coach-sandusky-raping-him-on-campus/#ixzz1iQhNeiif

In other words, "Even if Jerry Sandusky IS a child rapist, it doesn't mean he raped any of these new people coming forward."

Somehow, I just can't imagine Johnny Cochran ever saying "Even if O.J. Simpson DID murder his wife and Ron Goldman, it doesn't mean he killed anyone else." :gasp:

StellarsJay
01-03-2012, 05:32 PM
Interesting article about teachers proposing clearer reporting requirements in Pennsylvania:
http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/12003/1200918-298.stm

"Stuart Knade, chief counsel for the Pennsylvania School Boards Association, said one suggestion calls for a new type of conduct subject to discipline, sexual misconduct, which would include attempts to develop romantic relationships with students. That would cover, for example, the case of a teacher sending romantic or sexual text messages to a student without having to show that any physical activity took place.

Another suggestion would make it mandatory to report if an employee resigns to avoid being terminated. In this case, "you can't let somebody scurry off to another job and not be reported," Mr. Knade said.

Also being considered is wording that makes more clear which misdeeds must be reported and language that covers any uncertified teachers at charter schools."

Tipstaff
01-04-2012, 01:13 PM
Interesting article about teachers proposing clearer reporting requirements in Pennsylvania:
http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/12003/1200918-298.stm

"Stuart Knade, chief counsel for the Pennsylvania School Boards Association, said one suggestion calls for a new type of conduct subject to discipline, sexual misconduct, which would include attempts to develop romantic relationships with students. That would cover, for example, the case of a teacher sending romantic or sexual text messages to a student without having to show that any physical activity took place.

Another suggestion would make it mandatory to report if an employee resigns to avoid being terminated. In this case, "you can't let somebody scurry off to another job and not be reported," Mr. Knade said.

Also being considered is wording that makes more clear which misdeeds must be reported and language that covers any uncertified teachers at charter schools."

Having lived the past 10 years in S. Florida I can remember at least 4 cases where a teacher's past has caught up with them after they were permitted to resign prior to being fired for "misconduct with a student" in another state.

They came to Florida and got jobs as teachers!!! But they were found out by inquiring minds - usually parents of students.

One benefit of the internet and the search tools are these people cannot hide from their past if there was any type of reporting in public forum.

Tipstaff
01-04-2012, 01:17 PM
Interesting Update in the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette


PSU president to discuss scandal with alums

Wednesday, January 04, 2012

By Bill Schackner, Pittsburgh Post-Gazette


Penn State University President Rodney Erickson will be in Pittsburgh next week to take questions from alumni concerned about the child sex abuse scandal during the first of three town hall-style meetings.

Next Wednesday's 7 p.m. session planned for the Doubletree by Hilton, One Bigelow Square, Downtown, is the first of three gatherings for alums scheduled for consecutive nights in Pittsburgh, Greater Philadelphia and New York City.

Mr. Erickson will be at the Radisson Hotel Valley Forge, 1160 First Ave., King of Prussia, on Jan. 12 and at the Marriott Downtown, 85 West St. at Albany St., in Manhattan on Jan. 13, university officials said Tuesday.



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


THE SANDUSKY CASE

» See the PG's coverage


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Those wishing to attend must register in advance given seating constraints, and walk-ins will be allowed only if space permits, the officials said. Each session is sponsored by the Penn State Alumni Association.

Mr. Erickson, in office for two months, has vowed open communication with faculty, staff, students and other university constituencies as Penn State attempts to repair its image. He and a panel of Penn State administrators attended an emotional town hall-style session with students on the main University Park campus on Nov. 30, nearly a month after the arrest of former assistant football coach Jerry Sandusky on child sex abuse charges.

"Alumni have justifiable concerns and questions about the crisis that Penn State is facing," Roger L. Williams, executive director of the Penn State Alumni Association, said in a prepared statement. "While we have heard from and responded to thousands of alumni e-mails and phone calls, we thought alumni would welcome the opportunity to have their questions answered face-to-face by our new president. And President Erickson is eager to talk with alumni."

The scandal led to the firing of Penn State's famed football coach Joe Paterno and the resignation of the school's president Graham Spanier. Both faced criticism over the university's failure to report to law enforcement allegations that Mr. Sandusky sexually assaulted a boy in a campus shower in 2002.

In all, Mr. Sandusky faces 52 counts of sexual abuse involving 10 children over more than a decade.

Two other Penn State administrators were charged with perjury and failing to report allegations of child sex abuse.

Each of the 90-minute alumni sessions starts at 7 p.m. Penn State said those wishing to attend can register at www.alumni.psu.edu/events, and can have questions addressed by e-mail at alumni-events@psu.edu or by calling the Alumni Association at 800-548-LION.



Read more: http://www.postgazette.com/pg/12004/1201053-100.stm#ixzz1iVjDOqJm

Reader
01-04-2012, 03:23 PM
County fears trial may strain courts

Read more here: http://www.centredaily.com/2012/01/04/3039681/county-fears-trial-may-strain.html#storylink=cpy

BELLEFONTE — If and when Jerry Sandusky stands trial on charges of sexual abuse against boys, local and county officials need to come up with a plan for managing the case that’s attracting international attention. That’s according to Steve Dershem, chairman of the Centre County Board of Commissioners.

Dershem said Tuesday he’s concerned about the impact a protracted trial could have on Bellefonte, the county’s seat. “You’re looking at a major disruption to downtown Bellefonte, and a major disruption to our organization,” Dershem said.
------

Sandusky is scheduled for a pretrial conference in March.


More at link...

wfgodot
01-04-2012, 05:11 PM
And today from Deadspin....

Other Non-Profit Groups Want Nothing To Do With Jerry Sandusky’s Charity (http://deadspin.com/5873010/other-non+profit-groups-want-nothing-to-do-with-jerry-sanduskys-charity?tag=pennstatescandal)

al66pine
01-04-2012, 07:20 PM
And today from Deadspin....

Other Non-Profit Groups Want Nothing To Do With Jerry Sandusky’s Charity (http://deadspin.com/5873010/other-non+profit-groups-want-nothing-to-do-with-jerry-sanduskys-charity?tag=pennstatescandal)


Anybody remember small back & white TV screen Gomer Pyle, USMC?
As he used to say to Sgt. Carter, "Surprise, surprise."
.................................................. .................................................. ...................

200,000 youths served last year? (per article)

Within a few days of JerSan story originally breaking, I recall reading an article stating -
a huuuuuggge percent of kids reported as 'served' by 2d Mile
watched a video or rcvd a brochure, or trading cards, w. edu or inspirational tips from athletes.


ETA: from 2d Mile annual report, page 5, number of youths served
--- 201,xxx* were served thru Nittany Lions Tips Program (trading cards)
--- 280,xxx* were served thru Peak videos
* numbers estimated based upon info provided by counselors

---other programs, see rpt p. 5
.
http://www.thesecondmile.org/pdf/AnnualReport2010.pdf (http://www.thesecondmile.org/pdf/AnnualReport2010/pdf)
(if link does not work, enter thesecondmile.org then click on about us, click annual report)

Tipstaff
01-04-2012, 08:48 PM
County fears trial may strain courts

Read more here: http://www.centredaily.com/2012/01/04/3039681/county-fears-trial-may-strain.html#storylink=cpy

BELLEFONTE — If and when Jerry Sandusky stands trial on charges of sexual abuse against boys, local and county officials need to come up with a plan for managing the case that’s attracting international attention. That’s according to Steve Dershem, chairman of the Centre County Board of Commissioners.

Dershem said Tuesday he’s concerned about the impact a protracted trial could have on Bellefonte, the county’s seat. “You’re looking at a major disruption to downtown Bellefonte, and a major disruption to our organization,” Dershem said.
------

Sandusky is scheduled for a pretrial conference in March.


More at link...


Pennsylvania is a big state. There is both Westmoreland (3rd largest County) and Allegheny County (2nd Largest County) to the west and Philadelphia (the largest County in PA) to the east. All have adequate court facilities.

I am sure that the Judges and the Governor can work this out to better serve the citizens of Pennsylvania, the Victims, the defendant and our fellow citizens across the USA.

al66pine
01-05-2012, 02:37 AM
Some sleuthers have prob'ly already looked at this site, but I just peeked today.
http://www.thesecondmile.org/pdf/AnnualReport2010.pdf (http://www.thesecondmile.org/pdf/AnnualReport2010.pdf)
(if link does not work, enter thesecondmile.org then click on about us, click annual report)

FIRST
The Pres/CEO & Bd Chair’s cover letter states:
“…our mantra always has been, ’No broken promises ever.’ We need to be the family they can count on.” [ed: BBM, hmmm.]
.

SECOND
page 3
Rev = $2,659,xxx
Exp = $2,844,xxx inc. ..
................................Nittany Lion Tips………………. $ 131,xxx
.................................PEAK video & related………..….$ 31,xxx
................................(PEAK = Preventn: Educatn & Awareness for Kids)
Looks like a lotta bang for the buck on these 2 categories: relatively low exp’s and many ’served’ as I noted a few posts back.
.

THIRD 
Net Assets, ending = $8,974,xxx
I wonder if the org has incurred any significant legal services exp yet re proceedings stemming from JerSan‘s role.
Will be interesting to see developments on this.
A legal meter running at $300-$500 per hour can burn into assets, even this size.

Did I read something about a court order prohibiting substantial transfers of assets?
What is/wd. be the 'typical' procedure for a non-profit 503(c) org terminating operations?
Is this governed by Penn. state law re non-profit corps. at least to some extent?

Concerned Papa
01-05-2012, 11:27 AM
http://i941.photobucket.com/albums/ad257/Papa813_bucket/BobJack.png

Despite Board Chairman Bob ponying up $100,000 between himself, his wife, foundation, and construction business, CEO Jack says they lost money and must do better.

http://i941.photobucket.com/albums/ad257/Papa813_bucket/AngelSociety.png

Unlike the rest of the country, construction must be booming in Happy Valley! Wonder how charitable Bob will be this year?

http://www.thesecondmile.org/pdf/AnnualReport2010.pdf

StellarsJay
01-05-2012, 03:00 PM
Al66pine found the $131K Second Mile expense for Nittany Tips. So, did some of this payment go back to Penn State- or did someone have a nice private business producing new cards each season?
Sheesh! I just searched for the value of trading cards- it's a whole expensive new world!

wfgodot
01-05-2012, 08:28 PM
"We Are Taking Control Of The Narrative," Said PSU President In Stupidly Triumphant Sandusky Memo (http://deadspin.com/5873489/) (Deadspin)

The AP got its claws on four internal memos circulated among Penn State's board of trustees and the school's new president Rodney Erickson mere days after charges were filed against accused child rapist Jerry Sandusky last November. More face. More egg. The memos are about damage control, money, and little else. What'd you expect at this point?
---
the rest at link above

Jeesh. These people.

Tipstaff
01-05-2012, 09:38 PM
"We Are Taking Control Of The Narrative," Said PSU President In Stupidly Triumphant Sandusky Memo (http://deadspin.com/5873489/) (Deadspin)

the rest at link above

Jeesh. These people.

The New President looks to be an insider..........can't say this leads anyone to believe that Penn State wants to head in a new and 'moral' direction.

Next thing you know one of the Paterno son's will be named head coach.

BigCat
01-06-2012, 12:23 AM
According to ESPN, Penn State has selected its next head football coach.


New England Patriots offensive coordinator Bill O'Brien has agreed to become the coach at Penn State, according to sources.

http://espn.go.com/college-football/story/_/id/7430206/bill-obrien-agrees-penn-state-nittany-lions-coach-sources-say

J. J. in Phila
01-06-2012, 02:04 AM
The cover of the Penn Stater, the alumni magazine, is black.

http://pennstatermag.files.wordpress.com/2012/01/pennstaterjf12_cover.jpg

Tipstaff
01-06-2012, 09:12 AM
From this morning's Post-Gazette - A new coach for Penn State (maybe)



Penn State hiring Patriots assistant
Friday, January 06, 2012
By Ron Musselman, Pittsburgh Post-Gazette

Bill O'Brien
UNIVERSITY PARK, Pa. -- The coach who recently had a heated sideline spat with New England quarterback Tom Brady is the same guy who will become Penn State University's new head football coach.

Patriots offensive coordinator Bill O'Brien -- a hard-nosed, old-school coach -- interviewed for the Nittany Lions' vacancy Thursday and later accepted the job, a source told the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette.

Terms of the deal are not known, but Mr. O'Brien is expected to remain with the Patriots for the NFL playoffs.

Penn State fired Hall of Fame coach Joe Paterno Nov. 9 in the wake of a child sexual abuse scandal involving former defensive coordinator Jerry Sandusky.

Mr. Paterno was replaced by interim coach Tom Bradley, who guided the Lions to a 1-3 finish. As of late Thursday night, no Penn State coaches or players had been informed of the hiring.

"Coach O'Brien is very intense," said Cleveland Browns third-string quarterback Thaddeus Lewis, who started as a freshman at Duke in 2006 in Mr. O'Brien's second and final season as offensive coordinator there. "He demands the heck out of you, but he's going to give you everything he has. He loves the game of football.

"There was tough love, tough coaching, but it actually helped me out, helped me to get to where I am today."



Read more: http://postgazette.com/pg/12006/1201702-143.stm#ixzz1igQdgbAB

wfgodot
01-06-2012, 06:29 PM
Well, they might have a new coach:

sganim Sara Ganim
Source just told me that as of 4pm #PSU told current coaching staff that no decision has been made.
2 minutes ago
But they probably do have one hired. It's just PSU administrators lying again.

#comesnaturally

Tipstaff
01-06-2012, 07:04 PM
Even the potential hire at Penn State if filled with problems. Wonder if this will actually come to a signed contract with O'Brien.

Joyner as referred to in the article is the acting Athletic Director.

What a mess IMO.

http://espn.go.com/college-football/story/_/id/7430206/bill-obrien-agrees-penn-state-nittany-lions-coach-sources-say

"Former Penn State All-American linebacker Brandon Short told ESPN.com senior writer
Don Van Natta Jr. that members of the influential Lettermen's Club have a meeting scheduled with Joyner for 1 p.m. ET Friday.

"It's unfortunate that Coach O'Brien ... has not been made aware of the implications of him being in this position," said Short, an investment banker. "I don't envy him at all. He doesn't have support of the vast majority of former Penn State players and the vast majority of the student body and the faculty won't support him. I feel sorry for him."

Short said some members of the group were considering a range of options to express their displeasure, including asking current players to transfer and recruits to de-commit.

Short told USA Today they were mulling a lawsuit in an effort to bar Penn State from using their likenesses or images for marketing purposes.

"It appears as if it is Dave Joyner's intent to disassociate himself with everything related Penn State," Short told ESPN.com. "Then a group of former players will now disassociate ourselves from everything related to Penn State."

Former Penn State running back D.J. Dozier also said he was upset to hear about O'Brien's hiring, but also tempered his comments because of the high praise coming from Brady.

"I don't know much about O'Brien -- when you read quotes like the one from Tom Brady about what kind of coach he is, that's a pretty strong endorsement from one of the best quarterbacks in football, or the best quarterback in football," Dozier told ESPN.com's Van Natta Jr.

Defensive line coach Larry Johnson also interviewed with Penn State. Two people with knowledge of the search confirmed earlier reports that Paterno's son, quarterbacks coach Jay Paterno, interviewed as well. The two requested anonymity because no one was authorized to speak about the search.

The Patriots are third in the NFL overall in scoring (32.1 points per game), and second in total offense (428 yards) and passing (317.8 yards).

Penn State finished a 9-4 campaign with a 30-14 loss in the TicketCity Bowl to Houston on Jan. 2. The Nittany Lions relied on defense much of the year after the offense struggled with a two-quarterback system."

Information from ESPN senior NFL analyst Chris Mortensen, ESPN NFL Insider Adam Schefter, ESPN.com senior writer Don Van Natta Jr. and The Associated Press was used in this report.

Link above.

BigCat
01-06-2012, 07:06 PM
Well, they might have a new coach:

But they probably do have one hired. It's just PSU administrators lying again.

#comesnaturally

Here's a short clip of Jay Paterno leaving the meeting: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lDi9lE5CW5o&feature=youtube_gdata_player

Sounds like he's about to cry.

Tipstaff
01-06-2012, 07:27 PM
wfgodot - what meeting?

Sorry I mean BigCat.

wfgodot
01-06-2012, 08:13 PM
sganim Sara Ganim
O'Brien and family arrive in State College http://yfrog.com/nxuivznj
5 minutes ago
Would appear they've hired a coach.

Steely Dan
01-06-2012, 08:22 PM
Would appear they've hired a coach.

He goes from one disgraced team to another.

Tipstaff
01-06-2012, 08:54 PM
He goes from one disgraced team to another.

I beg for a LAUGH OUT LOUD button!!!:floorlaugh::floorlaugh::floorlaugh:

Ada
01-06-2012, 09:05 PM
"We Are Taking Control Of The Narrative," Said PSU President In Stupidly Triumphant Sandusky Memo (http://deadspin.com/5873489/) (Deadspin)

the rest at link above

Jeesh. These people.

...

Well I was trying to post a reply but I can't even think of a response to this. Unbelievable. Seriously wtf is wrong with people.

Reader
01-06-2012, 09:42 PM
Even the potential hire at Penn State if filled with problems. Wonder if this will actually come to a signed contract with O'Brien.

Joyner as referred to in the article is the acting Athletic Director.

What a mess IMO.

http://espn.go.com/college-football/story/_/id/7430206/bill-obrien-agrees-penn-state-nittany-lions-coach-sources-say

"Former Penn State All-American linebacker Brandon Short told ESPN.com senior writer
Don Van Natta Jr. that members of the influential Lettermen's Club have a meeting scheduled with Joyner for 1 p.m. ET Friday.

"It's unfortunate that Coach O'Brien ... has not been made aware of the implications of him being in this position," said Short, an investment banker. "I don't envy him at all. He doesn't have support of the vast majority of former Penn State players and the vast majority of the student body and the faculty won't support him. I feel sorry for him."

Short said some members of the group were considering a range of options to express their displeasure, including asking current players to transfer and recruits to de-commit.

Short told USA Today they were mulling a lawsuit in an effort to bar Penn State from using their likenesses or images for marketing purposes.

"It appears as if it is Dave Joyner's intent to disassociate himself with everything related Penn State," Short told ESPN.com. "Then a group of former players will now disassociate ourselves from everything related to Penn State."

Former Penn State running back D.J. Dozier also said he was upset to hear about O'Brien's hiring, but also tempered his comments because of the high praise coming from Brady.

"I don't know much about O'Brien -- when you read quotes like the one from Tom Brady about what kind of coach he is, that's a pretty strong endorsement from one of the best quarterbacks in football, or the best quarterback in football," Dozier told ESPN.com's Van Natta Jr.

Defensive line coach Larry Johnson also interviewed with Penn State. Two people with knowledge of the search confirmed earlier reports that Paterno's son, quarterbacks coach Jay Paterno, interviewed as well. The two requested anonymity because no one was authorized to speak about the search.

The Patriots are third in the NFL overall in scoring (32.1 points per game), and second in total offense (428 yards) and passing (317.8 yards).

Penn State finished a 9-4 campaign with a 30-14 loss in the TicketCity Bowl to Houston on Jan. 2. The Nittany Lions relied on defense much of the year after the offense struggled with a two-quarterback system."

Information from ESPN senior NFL analyst Chris Mortensen, ESPN NFL Insider Adam Schefter, ESPN.com senior writer Don Van Natta Jr. and The Associated Press was used in this report.

Link above.

It appears that these players don't understand yet that the football program doesn't run Penn St. anymore....what a childish, selfish reaction on their part...contrary to what they are saying their (threatened) actions say they really only support themselves, not what is best for the school's future as a whole....I'm glad they picked a coach from the outside who won't be part of the old football leadership circle and should be smart enough not to start another one....

Reader
01-06-2012, 10:12 PM
Was Ron Jaworski The Puppetmaster Behind Penn State’s Odd Coaching Hire?

http://deadspin.com/5873774/was-ron-jaworski-the-puppetmaster-behind-penn-states-odd-coaching-hire

Excerpts:

Several football insiders insist Penn State could have hired a proven college coach. For reasons which have not been publicly articulated, the search instead veered toward largely anonymous NFL assistants. Word from some is that "Monday Night Football" analyst Ron Jaworski is a friend of one of the search committee members and became involved in the search, helping steer it that way.
------

His connection—his "friend" on the search committee—is Ira Lubert, a venture capitalist in Philly and a Penn State alum. He is an investor in many of Jaworski's businesses, including his golf courses and a Holiday Inn in Philadelphia. ........ They make a nice pair: Jaworski's the respected ex-jock with the high-profile ESPN gig, and Lubert's the ex-Penn State wrestler with all the money.

The Patriot-News wrote in November that Lubert was the only member of the search committee who mattered, the only one with any wealth. Two years ago, Lubert handpicked a new wrestling coach from Iowa State and paid some of his salary. The Patriot-News suggests that Lubert might do the same for the head coaching gig:
-------

Bear with my conspiracy theory for a moment: Lubert sees an opening—he can seize control of Penn State's football program because, without his money, they can't hire anyone worthwhile. But presumably he wants someone who will kowtow even more than usual. .......
------

Or maybe Ron Jaworski just knows football and wants Penn State to succeed. Who knows?

BigCat
01-06-2012, 11:02 PM
wfgodot - what meeting?

Sorry I mean BigCat.

The athletic director met with the football staff to notify them that O'Brien has been hired.

BigCat
01-06-2012, 11:11 PM
Joe Paterno issues statement:


“I understand Bill O’Brien has been named head coach and I want to congratulate him on his appointment,” Paterno said in a statement to the AP provided by his family. “I don’t know Bill, but I respect his coaching record, and I am particularly pleased we share a connection to my alma mater, Brown.”

“Despite recent commentary to the contrary, Penn State football has always been about more than winning,” Paterno added, citing what he said was the program’s commitment to education and community service. “I am hopeful this tradition will continue.”

http://blog.pennlive.com/patriotnewssports/2012/01/joe_paterno_issues_statement_o.html

Quiche
01-07-2012, 12:28 AM
Penn State’s Choice of Coach Displeases Former Players

STATE COLLEGE, Pa. — The news that Bill O’Brien would become Penn State’s first new football coach in almost a half century upset some former Nittany Lions players, left some observers wondering why the search took nearly eight weeks, and moved fans here and afar to ask: “Who?”

much more at link

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/01/07/sports/ncaafootball/former-penn-state-players-unhappy-with-choice-of-bill-obrien-as-coach.html?smid=tw-nytimes&seid=auto

StellarsJay
01-07-2012, 01:07 PM
Sandusky says McQueary got the year and month wrong, his shower was February 2001 and of course totally innocent.
http://www.sacbee.com/2012/01/06/4167287/sanduskys-lawyer-questions-mcquearys.html

Concerned Papa
01-07-2012, 04:13 PM
Sandusky says McQueary got the year and month wrong, his shower was February 2001 and of course totally innocent.
http://www.sacbee.com/2012/01/06/4167287/sanduskys-lawyer-questions-mcquearys.html

They're gonna write books about this lawyer's statements to the media:


Jerry Sandusky’s attorney is insisting that the shower incident that Penn State assistant coach Mike McQueary testified he witnessed in 2002 actually happened in 2001.

http://www.sacbee.com/2012/01/06/4167287/sanduskys-lawyer-questions-mcquearys.html#storylink=cpy

Soooo.....What Mike McQueary said he witnessed, actually happened, eh?

ThoughtFox
01-07-2012, 04:46 PM
Sandusky says McQueary got the year and month wrong, his shower was February 2001 and of course totally innocent.
http://www.sacbee.com/2012/01/06/4167287/sanduskys-lawyer-questions-mcquearys.html

OMG - that's just incredible. :maddening:

al66pine
01-07-2012, 07:34 PM
Football Fan Sleuthers. Atty Tries to Bolster JerSan’s Credibility à FAIL?

Does atty’s stmt ring true to you, in light of McCreary’s grand jury testimony about
JerSan & boy’s shower room incident which McC said happened in March 2002?

http://www.sacbee.com/2012 (http://www.sacbee.com/2012)/01/06/4167287/sanduskys-lawyer-questions-mcquearys.html
Atty said JerSan “is adamant that the time frame involved was really 2001...probably February of 2001.” [emph added]
Atty supports this month and date by saying:
“Most importantly he said he had just interviewed for the Virginia head coaching job.” [emph added]

Virginia Cavaliers football - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Wikipedia on “Virginia Cavaliers Football” states, re head coaches:
“…Welsh announced his retirement… December 11, 2000...”
“…On December 30, 2000, Virginia hired New York Jets (http://websleuths.com/wiki/New_York_Jets) … Al Groh (http://websleuths.com/wiki/Al_Groh). …”
“…The 2009 team (http://websleuths.com/wiki/2009_Virginia_Cavaliers_football_team) ended 3 -9 …and Groh was fired following the last game of the season…”
“…Mike London (http://websleuths.com/wiki/Mike_London) was named head coach of the Cavaliers on December 7, 2009...” [all, BBM]

I don’t see any Dec. 2001 period, as logical for head coach interviews.

Did U of Va conduct any head coach interviews in December 2001, the month of JerSan‘s purported interview?

Wiki could bave bungled the dates or could have omitted head coaches
Or did JerSan misspeak to atty re interview date?
Or did atty misspeak to reporter re interview date?
If none of the above, I wonder if U/Va interviewed JerSan for less-than-head coach position, but JerSan would not admit to that?

If U of Va had no head coach opening in Dec 2001, looks like -
---JerSan’s stmt re Dec 2001 interview & shower timeframe is flimsy if not bogus, and
---Atty’s attempt to bolster client’s credibility built on that premise also fails.

So whatdya think? What am I missing or misintepreting? Thanks in advance.

Quiche
01-07-2012, 09:22 PM
Football Fan Sleuthers. Atty Tries to Bolster JerSan’s Credibility à FAIL?

Does atty’s stmt ring true to you, in light of McCreary’s grand jury testimony about
JerSan & boy’s shower room incident which McC said happened in March 2002?

http://www.sacbee.com/2012 (http://www.sacbee.com/2012)/01/06/4167287/sanduskys-lawyer-questions-mcquearys.html
Atty said JerSan “is adamant that the time frame involved was really 2001...probably February of 2001.” [emph added]
Atty supports this month and date by saying:
“Most importantly he said he had just interviewed for the Virginia head coaching job.” [emph added]

Virginia Cavaliers football - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virginia_Cavaliers_football)
Wikipedia on “Virginia Cavaliers Football” states, re head coaches:
“…Welsh announced his retirement… December 11, 2000...”
“…On December 30, 2000, Virginia hired New York Jets (http://websleuths.com/wiki/New_York_Jets) … Al Groh (http://websleuths.com/wiki/Al_Groh). …”
“…The 2009 team (http://websleuths.com/wiki/2009_Virginia_Cavaliers_football_team) ended 3 -9 …and Groh was fired following the last game of the season…”
“…Mike London (http://websleuths.com/wiki/Mike_London) was named head coach of the Cavaliers on December 7, 2009...” [all, BBM]

I don’t see any Dec. 2001 period, as logical for head coach interviews.

Did U of Va conduct any head coach interviews in December 2001, the month of JerSan‘s purported interview?

Wiki could bave bungled the dates or could have omitted head coaches
Or did JerSan misspeak to atty re interview date?
Or did atty misspeak to reporter re interview date?
If none of the above, I wonder if U/Va interviewed JerSan for less-than-head coach position, but JerSan would not admit to that?

If U of Va had no head coach opening in Dec 2001, looks like -
---JerSan’s stmt re Dec 2001 interview & shower timeframe is flimsy if not bogus, and
---Atty’s attempt to bolster client’s credibility built on that premise also fails.

So whatdya think? What am I missing or misintepreting? Thanks in advance.

Fail!!!

WTH are they doing, making these kinds of statements without doing their own investigations? The only thing I take away from Amendola's assertion that Jerry is "adamant" about the dates being inaccurate is that Jerry had so many different kids in that shower he can't keep it all straight!

I hope the Prosecutors are pouncing on this with both feet and are able to identify who was the victim d'jour at the close of 2000/early months of 2001! I think the waving of the preliminary trial is going to come back and bite them ITA and HARD! It's obvious, to me, the defense doesn't know who's who in Jerry's own victims. (Jerry may pride himself on remembering all of them, because he "loved them," but I think there are quite a few surprise witnesses in store for him.

This is beyond crazy!

MOO

Concerned Papa
01-07-2012, 09:46 PM
Sandusky, apparently did interview for the VA job in December, 2000 as confirmed by the Centre Times Daily:


Centre Daily Times archives show that Sandusky interviewed for the job on Dec. 20, 2000.

http://www.sacbee.com/2012/01/06/4167287/sanduskys-lawyer-questions-mcquearys.html#storylink=cpy#storylink=cpy

Welsh announced his retirement on December 11, 2000 and interviews were conducted until hiring Al Groh on December 30, 2000.

As the post from al66pine points out, Sandusky could not, and did not interview in January, 2001 as stated by his attorney unless it was for some type of assistant position. The head coach's job was already filled.


Amendola said Sandusky said he interviewed for the football job at the University of Virginia in January 2001.

http://www.sacbee.com/2012/01/06/4167287/sanduskys-lawyer-questions-mcquearys.html#storylink=cpy#storylink=cpy

It's gonna be kinda hard for Jer and mr. lawyer to make this fairy tale fly.

StellarsJay
01-07-2012, 09:51 PM
they're gonna write books about this lawyer's statements to the media:

Soooo.....what mike mcqueary said he witnessed, actually happened, eh?

Funny!

Reader
01-08-2012, 01:19 AM
Sandusky, apparently did interview for the VA job in December, 2000 as confirmed by the Centre Times Daily:



Welsh announced his retirement on December 11, 2000 and interviews were conducted until hiring Al Groh on December 30, 2000.

As the post from al66pine points out, Sandusky could not, and did not interview in January, 2001 as stated by his attorney unless it was for some type of assistant position. The head coach's job was already filled.



It's gonna be kinda hard for Jer and mr. lawyer to make this fairy tale fly.


Well they all say JS is like a 'boy'....maybe he thinks he's Peter Pan!

If they can't get their stories together any better than this, Amendola better be saying a few 'amens' before trial...

Reader
01-08-2012, 01:34 AM
Once again, Penn St. shows it's clueless
Bill Reiter

http://msn.foxsports.com/collegefootball/story/Penn-State-Nittany-Lions-Bill-OBrien-flap-shows-Jerry-Sandusky-Joe-Paterno-scandal-has-not-taught-Happy-Valley-a-thing-010612

What we know now — as emotions run hot in Happy Valley and among those still stuck in its sphere of influence and absurd thinking — is sad, stupid and all too familiar.

The same forces are at it again: Nittany Lions apologists, sports fanatics and otherwise right-thinking fans who have lost track of themselves and those things that matter in the clutter and cloud of misplaced loyalty when the Jerry Sandusky scandal first broke.
-----

Note that Arrington and those like him didn’t decide to be done with Penn State when the Sandusky child sexual-abuse scandal first broke. Notice he and those like him — as detailed allegations of evil and horror spread, made possible in part because of football and Penn State — did not suddenly decide it was time to take their loyalties elsewhere.

But now — now that a longtime Paterno assistant, Penn State insider and one-time Sandusky friend gets passed over — now’s the time for moral self-righteousness, threats of separation and “change-or-I’m-going” hand wringing?

Are these guys serious?
------


More at link....

al66pine
01-08-2012, 01:51 AM
Let’s slice & dice the atty’s stmt about corroboration of date a bit differently.
http://www.sacbee.com/2012/01/06/4167287/sanduskys-lawyer-questions-mcquearys.html

Atty said JerSan is adamant:
shower incident was after he had just interviewed for U/Va head football coach in Feb 2001.

BUT, BUT, BUT
FIRST, evidence of interview date would logically be from U/Va employees who interviewed him.
Per wiki, U/Va had no reason to conduct Feb. 2001 interviews for head coach, imo.
Virginia Cavaliers football - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
SECOND, Center Times Daily archives show he interviewed for U/Va job Dec. 20, 2000, not Feb 2001.


IOW, two independent sources reflect JerSan did not tell truth about head coach interview timing.

The wrong people corroborate (unless PennSt has JerSan’s written request for a couple days leave for job hunt in Feb 2001).

Atty stmt that PennSt people corroborate JerSan’s stmt, so show McC is not credible on dates, seems rather lame, imo.
If anything JerSan's stmt re timing throws his credibility (further) into question.

ohiogirl
01-08-2012, 08:54 AM
Why would former players think that they should be consulted about the coaching job anyway?

Tipstaff
01-08-2012, 09:30 AM
Why would former players think that they should be consulted about the coaching job anyway?

Because they have BIG and UNCHECKED EGO'S?

BigCat
01-08-2012, 11:05 AM
I'm not surprised to learn that Sandusky's autobiography played a major part in helping police find several of his victims. The book is very bizarre. I'm not sure what psychological need compelled him to publish such a potentially incriminating book. I'm beginning to believe there's a possibility that Sandusky's not consciously aware of his crimes.


The investigation of Jerry Sandusky took three years.

And it took Sandusky himself — through the pages of his autobiography, “Touched” — to help police find Victims 3, 4, 5 and 7.

At the end of 2009, police had spent almost a year trying to corroborate claims by a single boy — a 17-year-old Clinton County teen later known as Victim 1 — who had alleged years of sexual abuse by Penn State’s legendary defensive coach. Only one state police investigator had been tasked to handle the case.

Finally, they discovered a campus police report from 1998, in which a boy had said he was forced to take a naked shower with Sandusky in the Penn State locker room and was inappropriately touched. With that, investigators learned the key had been right in front of them.

The 1998 boy was called Victim 6 by the grand jury. After police found him, the man’s mother told them about Sandusky’s autobiography, which was sitting on the shelves of the Penn State bookstore

http://www.pennlive.com/midstate/index.ssf/2012/01/jerry_sanduskys_book_touched_h.html

Quiche
01-08-2012, 12:38 PM
Because they have BIG and UNCHECKED EGO'S?

Or, big big Check Writing egos. Penn State loves its alumni...

Waupalani St.
01-08-2012, 01:00 PM
I found this entry, and have no idea who theauthor is, or what book they are writing..."More realistic is that with the possibility of all the media attention, etc., that Sandusky's trial ends in a mistrial. Commonwealth v. Haefner, a trial also involving a Penn Stater and alleged pedophile, is the hornbook law in PA regarding double jeopardy and a mistrial. Defining a mistrial as a legitimate end to a prosecution would also allow Sandusky to sue everyone, and would prevent future prosecutions of his past alleged molestation incidents. Commonwealth v. Haefner effectively ended a second case that was pending against Richard Haefner in 1976, leading to the Lancaster County DA's office "nolle prossing" the charges, or refusing to prosecute. There was a similar media circus around Commonwealth v. Haefner, but little has survived because the case was sealed and expunged in 1979. I have many of the original documents including the transcript and have studied the case intensively for my book."
Posted on Jerry Sandusky has hired a private investigator to study sex-abuse claims, his attorney says on November 29, 2011, 9:35AM
http://connect.mlive.com/user/social_user_413/index.html

“Have you seen the papers?” Richard Haefner asked breathlessly, emerging from the blustery darkness short of breath. (Although the Centre Daily Times was an evening paper then, the story didn’t make the late edition, and first appeared on Nov. 29th.) When Wright said no, Haefner told him that Betsy Aardsma, a young girl he knew, had been killed in Pattee Library."
http://www.statecollegemagazine.com/single/?tx_ttnews%5Bpointer%5D=1&tx_ttnews%5Btt_news%5D=50&tx_ttnews%5BbackPid%5D=2&cHash=fe3b6029e7

InTheGarden
01-08-2012, 01:00 PM
I'm not surprised to learn that Sandusky's autobiography played a major part in helping police find several of his victims. The book is very bizarre. I'm not sure what psychological need compelled him to publish such a potentially incriminating book. I'm beginning to believe there's a possibility that Sandusky's not consciously aware of his crimes.

Sandusky was very conscious of his crimes. He had pictures of his victims in the book, part of his control and power tactics over them.

Quiche
01-08-2012, 01:26 PM
More realistic is that with the possibility of all the media attention, etc., that Sandusky's trial ends in a mistrial. Commonwealth v. Haefner, a trial also involving a Penn Stater and alleged pedophile, is the hornbook law in PA regarding double jeopardy and a mistrial. Defining a mistrial as a legitimate end to a prosecution would also allow Sandusky to sue everyone, and would prevent future prosecutions of his past alleged molestation incidents. Commonwealth v. Haefner effectively ended a second case that was pending against Richard Haefner in 1976, leading to the Lancaster County DA's office "nolle prossing" the charges, or refusing to prosecute. There was a similar media circus around Commonwealth v. Haefner, but little has survived because the case was sealed and expunged in 1979. I have many of the original documents including the transcript and have studied the case intensively for my book.

Posted on Jerry Sandusky has hired a private investigator to study sex-abuse claims, his attorney says on November 29, 2011, 9:35AM
http://connect.mlive.com/user/social_user_413/index.html

Well, this case is already going to trial-- and with a lot of victims and a grand jury report that has inflamed the public AT LARGE (not just their cozy corner of the world). I don't think sealing everything up is an option at this point, right? Sandusky is finally the one who's in the the screwing. IMO

A lot of interesting comments over there, though. Read around quite a bit!

Tipstaff
01-08-2012, 01:36 PM
Or, big big Check Writing egos. Penn State loves its alumni...

So right............and THEY also have big unchecked egos which is why Sandusky was able to continue his behavior. IMO

Tipstaff
01-08-2012, 02:03 PM
Well, this case is already going to trial-- and with a lot of victims and a grand jury report that has inflamed the public AT LARGE (not just their cozy corner of the world). I don't think sealing everything up is an option at this point, right? Sandusky is finally the one who's in the the screwing. IMO

A lot of interesting comments over there, though. Read around quite a bit!

Great heads up on those links!

Quiche
01-08-2012, 02:54 PM
Why is this distancing necessary? :waitasec: Civil suits, I'd guess...

Penn State president never read the news reports about Sandusky investigation

Penn State President Rodney Erickson denied knowing anything about an investigation into Jerry Sandusky before the grand jury presentment was released in November and charges were filed against Sandusky and two top university officials.

and

“It seemed you were caught off guard by something when there was months and months of warning,” a reporter asked him.

“There were, I would think nearly all individuals at the university, including me, were not aware of any this until we read it in the grand jury presentment, so how would we have known?”

http://www.pennlive.com/midstate/index.ssf/2012/01/penn_state_president_never_rea.html


For an institution of higher learning, there's a lot of stupidity coming from their leadership. Why can't they see that they're beat, and STHU? Simply amazing to me.

Tipstaff
01-08-2012, 02:59 PM
Why is this distancing necessary? :waitasec: Civil suits, I'd guess...

Penn State president never read the news reports about Sandusky investigation

Penn State President Rodney Erickson denied knowing anything about an investigation into Jerry Sandusky before the grand jury presentment was released in November and charges were filed against Sandusky and two top university officials.

and

“It seemed you were caught off guard by something when there was months and months of warning,” a reporter asked him.

“There were, I would think nearly all individuals at the university, including me, were not aware of any this until we read it in the grand jury presentment, so how would we have known?”

http://www.pennlive.com/midstate/index.ssf/2012/01/penn_state_president_never_rea.html


For an institution of higher learning, there's a lot of stupidity coming from their leadership. Why can't they see that they're beat, and STHU? Simply amazing to me.


:maddening: Plausible deniability.

ThoughtFox
01-08-2012, 03:57 PM
Why is this distancing necessary? :waitasec: Civil suits, I'd guess...

Penn State president never read the news reports about Sandusky investigation

Penn State President Rodney Erickson denied knowing anything about an investigation into Jerry Sandusky before the grand jury presentment was released in November and charges were filed against Sandusky and two top university officials.

and

“It seemed you were caught off guard by something when there was months and months of warning,” a reporter asked him.

“There were, I would think nearly all individuals at the university, including me, were not aware of any this until we read it in the grand jury presentment, so how would we have known?”

http://www.pennlive.com/midstate/index.ssf/2012/01/penn_state_president_never_rea.html


For an institution of higher learning, there's a lot of stupidity coming from their leadership. Why can't they see that they're beat, and STHU? Simply amazing to me.

Yes, we can feel the stupid emanating from that. Total head-in-the-sand behavior and magical thinking. If they don't read it, then it doesn't exist. Denial and more Denial. The more things change, the more they stay the same.

wfgodot
01-08-2012, 04:41 PM
Succinct commentary highlights Deadspin's synopsis of the "cops found victims via Sandusky bio" story; first and last paragraphs:


In Greek mythology, many apparent protagonists are later forced to face the wrath of the gods for showing excessive pride, arrogance or just losing touch with reality in general. Welcome back to State College, where hubris isn't so much a trait as it is a way of life.
---
Around the same time investigators were contacting Victim 6's mother, they also decided to check in on some rumors circulating about assistant coach Mike McQueary having witnessed something in the Penn State showers. The rest, as they say, is The Jerry Sandusky Story.
Jerry Sandusky’s Autobiography Helped Police Track Down Additional Victims (http://deadspin.com/5874052/)

al66pine
01-08-2012, 04:53 PM
JerSan prob'ly thought he was not writing a tell-all book,
but looks like it's gonna help nail him.

http://deadspin.com/5874052/ (http://deadspin.com/5874052/)

LE used book to help find other victims.
Copyright date is 2000, so it is not helpful in locating later victims, unfortunately.

to wfgodot: THANKS for linking this.

Amazon prices for this book, new and used are still -----> up there.
Amazon.com: Touched: The Jerry Sandusky Story (9781582613574): Jerry Sandusky: Books@@AMEPARAM@@http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41SRnoJKLLL.@@AMEPARAM@@41SRnoJKLLL

wfgodot
01-09-2012, 12:07 AM
Another Deadspin synopsis:

Penn State’s New President Is Being Less Than Candid About What He Knew About Jerry Sandusky (http://deadspin.com/5874170/)

The pennlive.com article by Sara Ganim:

Penn State president's denial of knowledge of Sandusky reports is flimsy, PR expert says (http://www.pennlive.com/midstate/index.ssf/2012/01/penn_state_presidents_denial_o.html)

al66pine
01-09-2012, 01:12 AM
Thanks again, wfgodot, for your links to deadspin & other sites.

wfgodot
01-09-2012, 01:15 AM
After the total crap that has been the PSU response, I'd like to see the institution devolve back to operating under its original name (in 1855, and through 1862): Farmers High School. At this point, that name has much more class.

al66pine
01-09-2012, 01:18 AM
Thanks again. wfgodot, for your informative links, in your post just above.

PennSt Pres Rodney 'Transparency' Erickson.

Didn't he or one of his sub-ord's email - We're Taking Charge of the Dialogue.

Tipstaff
01-09-2012, 11:10 AM
Jay Sandusky did an interview in the past day or so and it was on TV (GMA I think) where he said Joe Paterno can't wait to tell his side of the story.

Jay also went on to say that at 85 his dad is fighting cancer and that is taking all his energy and leaves little time for him to contemplate anything else going on right now.

IMO if Joe Paterno is seriously ill I think this is the beginning of repairing his image because they know he will NOT be available to testify in the Sandusky trial.

Salem
01-09-2012, 11:31 AM
Good morning everyone :seeya:

Please remember that if you post a link and it comes up with asteriks (*****.com) it means the link is not allowed at WS. That means that information at that site cannot be verified and maybe unreliable.

If you have any questions, please pm me or any other mod and we will give you hand.

Thanks,

Salem

Steely Dan
01-09-2012, 02:52 PM
Jay Sandusky did an interview in the past day or so and it was on TV (GMA I think) where he said Joe Paterno can't wait to tell his side of the story.

Jay also went on to say that at 85 his dad is fighting cancer and that is taking all his energy and leaves little time for him to contemplate anything else going on right now.

IMO if Joe Paterno is seriously ill I think this is the beginning of repairing his image because they know he will NOT be available to testify in the Sandusky trial.

I think you mean Jay Paterno and not Jay Sandusky.

Tipstaff
01-09-2012, 03:40 PM
Jay Sandusky did an interview in the past day or so and it was on TV (GMA I think) where he said Joe Paterno can't wait to tell his side of the story.

Jay also went on to say that at 85 his dad is fighting cancer and that is taking all his energy and leaves little time for him to contemplate anything else going on right now.

IMO if Joe Paterno is seriously ill I think this is the beginning of repairing his image because they know he will NOT be available to testify in the Sandusky trial.

Darn I meant to type Jay Paterno - some reason eidt button is gone. :waitasec:

Steely Dan
01-09-2012, 03:48 PM
Darn I meant to type Jay Paterno - some reason eidt button is gone. :waitasec:

You only have a certain amount of time to go back and edit your post.

Waupalani St.
01-10-2012, 11:25 AM
the 'Murder in the Stacks' of Betsy Aardsma, an innocent grad student, may have been because she witnessed illicit activity? Are these circumstances urban legend, or is there something to this??



http://www.statecollegemagazine.com/single/?tx_ttnews%5Btt_news%5D=351&tx_ttnews%5BbackPid%5D=2&cHash=2dd074a930


http://www.defrostingcoldcases.com/forensics/pennstate-remembers-betsy-aardsma-1969

Wondergirl
01-10-2012, 01:31 PM
I am horrified by this case, and, am trying to catch up on everything. :(






.

Reader
01-10-2012, 08:02 PM
New PSU staff takes shape without Jay Paterno

Read more here: http://www.centredaily.com/2012/01/10/3047828/new-psu-staff-takes-shape-without.html#storylink=cpy

STATE COLLEGE, Pa. — Jay Paterno is leaving Penn State's coaching staff after spending 17 years as an assistant under his father, Hall of Fame coach Joe Paterno........."I wish the program the best of luck in carrying on the academic and athletic excellence that have been a hallmark of this university for decades," Jay Paterno said in a statement.

Jay Paterno said he and O'Brien spoke this week and the two "reached the conclusion" he would not be part of the new staff. He planned to take the next few weeks to consult his wife and family about options both inside and outside of football.
------

Defensive coordinator Tom Bradley, who applied for the head-coaching job while serving as Paterno's interim replacement, is among other assistants from Paterno's staff not expected to return. Secondary coach Kermit Buggs posted Tuesday on Twitter that he had been let go.


More at link...

Waupalani St.
01-10-2012, 09:54 PM
the 'Murder in the Stacks' of Betsy Aardsma, an innocent grad student, may have been because she witnessed illicit activity? Are these circumstances urban legend, or is there something to this??



http://www.statecollegemagazine.com/single/?tx_ttnews%5Btt_news%5D=351&tx_ttnews%5BbackPid%5D=2&cHash=2dd074a930


http://www.defrostingcoldcases.com/forensics/pennstate-remembers-betsy-aardsma-1969

but maybe Haeffner and Sundusky were partaking of something illict in the stacks when happened upon by Betsy....as I said...it's a leap....but so much of this is unbelievable...

BigCat
01-11-2012, 08:36 PM
Report: Sandusky in President’s Box 2 Mos. Ago


Former Penn State linebacker Brandon Short reported on ESPN Wednesday - via “two independent sources” cited by the ex-Nittany Lion linebacker - that Jerry Sandusky watched the Oct. 29, 2011, football game between Penn State and Illinois at Beaver Stadium from the luxury box of then-Penn State President Graham Spanier.

http://www.sportsbybrooks.com/report-sandusky-in-psu-presidents-box-2-mos-ago-29952

Reader
01-11-2012, 08:52 PM
Penn State president to face alumni in Pittsburgh

http://www.centurylink.net/news/read.php?id=18778308&ps=1011&cat=&cps=0&lang=en

PITTSBURGH (AP) — Penn State University President Rodney Erickson is facing a crowd of alumni Wednesday in Pittsburgh, some of whom aren't happy about how the school handled the Jerry Sandusky child sex abuse scandal, the firing of football coach Joe Paterno and a lack of transparency over the case.

Erickson is attempting to repair the school's image with alumni, faculty, staff and students, more than two months since Sandusky's arrest brought controversy, criticism and contemplation to the school.
------

The alumni meeting comes as investigators re-interview current and former employees of Penn State's athletic department as part of the case against the 67-year-old Sandusky, a longtime football assistant who's charged with sexually abusing 10 boys over a 15-year period. He has denied the charges and remains out on $250,000 bail while awaiting trial.

The alumni meeting in Pittsburgh is the first of three; the others are planned in coming days in suburban Philadelphia and New York. They are being sponsored by the Penn State Alumni Association, which has received thousands of emails and phone calls about the scandal, association president Roger Williams said.
------

"I hope that they come in with an open mind and actually listen to what the students and alumni have to say and truly hear why we are so upset. It has nothing to do with football — it has to do with the veil of secrecy that's been operated under for what appears to be numerous years."


More at link...

wfgodot
01-11-2012, 10:29 PM
Hope alums bring torches and pitchforks.

Concerned Papa
01-12-2012, 12:04 AM
From BigCat's link:

http://i941.photobucket.com/albums/ad257/Papa813_bucket/TrusteeMtg.jpg

I know Poole is not an uncommon name but with this bunch, you've at least got to wonder if it was the TSM head honcho.

http://www.sportsbybrooks.com/report-sandusky-in-psu-presidents-box-2-mos-ago-29952

Reader
01-12-2012, 03:05 AM
Former Penn State athletic director has cancer

http://news.yahoo.com/former-penn-state-athletic-director-cancer-004319204--spt.html

PITTSBURGH (Reuters) - Former Penn State University Athletic Director Tim Curley, who faces perjury charges stemming from the child sex abuse scandal that has rocked the school, is suffering from lung cancer, his family said on Wednesday.

A malignant cancerous tumor was discovered in June 2010 and half of Curley's lung was removed, his family said in a statement. The statement said he had not undergone chemotherapy or radiation, but did not elaborate.


More at link...

Reader
01-12-2012, 02:44 PM
For alumni, few answers from Penn State president

http://news.yahoo.com/alumni-few-answers-penn-state-president-085126248--spt.html

PITTSBURGH (AP) — Penn State University President Rodney Erickson had comforting words but few answers to tough questions at a town hall meeting with alumni in Pittsburgh in the wake of the school's child sex abuse scandal.
------

Dave Hrinak, a 1980 graduate who lives near Pittsburgh, said before the meeting that he has one main message for Erickson.

"Never again let anybody get as much power as Joe Paterno had," Hrinak said, adding that he feels that way even though he respects Paterno and is a season ticket holder at football games.

The most sustained and passionate applause of the evening came from a questioner who suggested that the entire board of trustees step down, but Erickson failed to build on the emotion.

"I think the board will have to make those decisions," said Erickson, who is also scheduled to speak to alumni in New York City on Friday.


More at link...

Tipstaff
01-12-2012, 03:16 PM
For alumni, few answers from Penn State president

http://news.yahoo.com/alumni-few-answers-penn-state-president-085126248--spt.html

PITTSBURGH (AP) — Penn State University President Rodney Erickson had comforting words but few answers to tough questions at a town hall meeting with alumni in Pittsburgh in the wake of the school's child sex abuse scandal.
------

Dave Hrinak, a 1980 graduate who lives near Pittsburgh, said before the meeting that he has one main message for Erickson.

"Never again let anybody get as much power as Joe Paterno had," Hrinak said, adding that he feels that way even though he respects Paterno and is a season ticket holder at football games.

The most sustained and passionate applause of the evening came from a questioner who suggested that the entire board of trustees step down, but Erickson failed to build on the emotion.

"I think the board will have to make those decisions," said Erickson, who is also scheduled to speak to alumni in New York City on Friday.


More at link...


Erickson is only staying at Penn State until 2014 per an article I read in Sporting News. That is the length of his contract.

Seems like Erickson is going to be the out front guy taking all the grenades tossed by disgusted alumni, fans and media, etc. and hopefully get this Sandusky situation under control and behind them.

This was something I thought they would do with the hiring of the football coach but not sure how O'Brien will fit into the program. Maybe this is the plan for him as well. Time will tell.

Steely Dan
01-12-2012, 03:46 PM
For alumni, few answers from Penn State president

http://news.yahoo.com/alumni-few-answers-penn-state-president-085126248--spt.html

PITTSBURGH (AP) — Penn State University President Rodney Erickson had comforting words but few answers to tough questions at a town hall meeting with alumni in Pittsburgh in the wake of the school's child sex abuse scandal.
------

Dave Hrinak, a 1980 graduate who lives near Pittsburgh, said before the meeting that he has one main message for Erickson.

"Never again let anybody get as much power as Joe Paterno had," Hrinak said, adding that he feels that way even though he respects Paterno and is a season ticket holder at football games.

The most sustained and passionate applause of the evening came from a questioner who suggested that the entire board of trustees step down, but Erickson failed to build on the emotion.

"I think the board will have to make those decisions," said Erickson, who is also scheduled to speak to alumni in New York City on Friday.


More at link...

I'm glad to see the alumni holding these people's feet to the fire. :thumb:

wfgodot
01-12-2012, 04:19 PM
What's the over/under number on days until the next Second Mile/Penn State "pedophiles involved with Sandusky in the same group" rumor gets floated? Because it surely will. And with the way this case has gone already - well, who's to say, who's to say.

StellarsJay
01-12-2012, 11:05 PM
If the new coach has filled all his assistant slots what does this mean for McQueary?

Tipstaff
01-13-2012, 08:38 AM
If the new coach has filled all his assistant slots what does this mean for McQueary?

Paid Administrative Leave so he doesn't file suit against Penn State as in a whistle blower action?

Tipstaff
01-14-2012, 09:23 AM
From the Pittsburgh Post Gazette this morning 1/14/12


Franco Harris: 'Bad leadership at Penn State'
Friday, January 13, 2012

By Frank Fitzpatrick, The Philadelphia Inquirer
Thursday night's fog delayed Franco Harris' flight to Philadelphia so long that he missed Penn State president Rodney Erickson's question-and-answer session with 600 agitated Nittany Lions alumni at the Radisson Valley Forge.

But the former all-American running back from Mount Holly said he'd heard more than enough from university leadership in the aftermath of the child sex-abuse scandal that led to the dismissal of his old coach, Joe Paterno.

"There's been a lack of leadership at Penn State," Harris told a group of reporters and fellow Nittany Lions graduates who had gathered in a conference room just below the hall where Erickson was speaking. "There's been bad leadership at Penn State. This leadership does not represent me."

Harris and disgruntled Penn State graduate Anthony Lubrano, a major athletic donor from Chester County, hastily scheduled the session because they were frustrated with the answers Erickson had given at a Wednesday night Q&A in Pittsburgh.

Since Jerry Sandusky's early November arrest triggered the crisis at his alma mater, Harris, 61, has been an outspoken critic of the board of trustees' decision to dismiss Paterno.

"Nobody has done more for Penn State than Joe Paterno," he said.

For Harris, that discontent with Erickson and the trustees intensified Thursday when he read a fresh board statement on Paterno's firing. In it, the trustees said that "given the serious allegations ... Coach Paterno could not be expected to continue to effectively perform his duties."

"Serious allegations? Those were serious allegations," Harris noted. "But those serious allegations weren't against Joe Paterno."

Harris called for the replacement of the entire 32-member board, but, in response to a question, said he would not be a candidate.

"My running days," he said, "are over."

Ron Musselman's Penn State blog and videos are featured exclusively on PG+, a members-only web site from the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette. Our introduction to PG+ gives you all the details.
First published on January 13, 2012 at 11:38 am



Read more: http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/12013/1203301-143.stm?cmpid=MOSTEMAILEDBOX#ixzz1jRFFCpHB

Tipstaff
01-14-2012, 02:30 PM
According to CBS Chicago Sports today - we have been mislead by Penn State Officials - Paterno was never fired.

To read more go to chicago.cbslocal.com

Following is a brief portion of the report

“The Board of Trustees and Graham Spanier have decided that, effective immediately, Dr. Spanier is no longer president of the University. Additionally, the board determined that it is in the best interest of the University for Joe Paterno to no longer serve as head football coach, effective immediately.”

The fans in the room gasped. Some reporters did too. The headlines were immediately written: “PATERNO FIRED”. The students rioted.

Article written by Adam Hodge at CBSChichago.com

After 61 years at Penn State, the unthinkable had happened. Joe Paterno did not leave Penn State on his own terms. He had been fired.

Or so we thought.

As if no one would notice – and oddly, no one did – the Board of Trustees released their statement Thursday revealing that Paterno was still being paid as a faculty member and that the university intended to “honor the terms of his employment contract and is treating him financially as if he had retired at the end of the 2011 football season.”

In other words, Penn State didn’t fire him. They suspended him with pay for the rest of the season and now that the season is over, Paterno is willfully retiring.

Written by Adam Hodge CBSChicago.com

al66pine
01-14-2012, 04:38 PM
to Tipstaff, thanks for article excerpts above.

"...Board of Trustees released their statement Thursday revealing that Paterno was still being paid as a faculty member and that the university intended to “honor the terms of his employment contract and is treating him financially as if he had retired at the end of the 2011 football season.”

Per Tipstaff "In other words, Penn State didn’t fire him. They suspended him with pay for the rest of the season and now that the season is over, Paterno is willfully retiring."

If I follow correctly, another way to express it (respectfully, Tipstaff) =

Starting in early Nov---
--- employer PennSt cont'd paying e'ee for services under contract, thru (?);
--- employee JoePa did not perform services, per bd/t'ee's action.
Neither party negotiated for new contract.

wfgodot
01-14-2012, 05:27 PM
Paterno: the Sally Jenkins interview, Washington Post:

Joe Paterno’s first interview since the Penn State-Sandusky scandal (http://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/colleges/joe-paternos-first-interview-since-the-penn-state-sandusky-scandal/2012/01/13/gIQA08e4yP_story.html)

Lengthy piece. Judging by the first page (of six pages), the general tone seems to be one we've heard sounded before:

“I didn’t know exactly how to handle it and I was afraid to do something that might jeopardize what the university procedure was,” [Paterno] said. “So I backed away and turned it over to some other people, people I thought would have a little more expertise than I did. It didn’t work out that way.”
Remember, this is in response to being told a child was being molested in your athletic building's shower. Sheer bullsh-t: "I didn't know the procedure" - uh, how 'bout calling 911.

I haven't read the whole thing. Maybe interesting, maybe not. But it is the first full interview with disgraced JoePa since this all came down. The rest of it's at the Washington Post link up top.

Tipstaff
01-14-2012, 05:34 PM
to Tipstaff, thanks for article excerpts above.

"...Board of Trustees released their statement Thursday revealing that Paterno was still being paid as a faculty member and that the university intended to “honor the terms of his employment contract and is treating him financially as if he had retired at the end of the 2011 football season.”

Per Tipstaff "In other words, Penn State didn’t fire him. They suspended him with pay for the rest of the season and now that the season is over, Paterno is willfully retiring."

If I follow correctly, another way to express it (respectfully, Tipstaff) =

Starting in early Nov---
--- employer PennSt cont'd paying e'ee for services under contract, thru (?);

--- employee JoePa did not perform services, per bd/t'ee's action.
Neither party negotiated for new contract.


Alpine those were the words of the CBS sportswriter Hodge - but it does seem to me that Penn State allowed the misrepresentation of Paterno's tenure and ending to continue.

In some twisted way the fact that Paterno was permitted by the University to retire will play big in favor of Sandusky and his attorney at trial. IMO

wfgodot
01-14-2012, 09:45 PM
This pretty well sums up critical thinking re: the Paterno Washington Post "interview" piece (linked above):

Joe Paterno’s First Interview Since The Sandusky Scandal Is A Five Page Waste Of Time (http://deadspin.com/5876169/joe-paternos-first-interview-since-the-sandusky-scandal-is-a-five-page-waste-of-time?tag=pennstatescandal) (Deadspin)

On things that may make other people throw up their hands in disgust and say "are you kidding me?": "'You know, he didn't want to get specific,' Paterno said. 'And to be frank with you I don't know that it would have done any good, because I never heard of, of, rape and a man. So I just did what I thought was best. I talked to people that I thought would be, if there was a problem, that would be following up on it.'"
Other highlights (lowlights?) of interview at link (and also another link to Washington Post interview itself)

al66pine
01-14-2012, 10:02 PM
Tipstaff,
Sorry for misattributing the quotation to you.
Not a reflection on you. My bad.

Non-pursuit of contract renewal negotiations btwn a U. & 84 y/o is a "firing?"

Apparently yes, per those who think JoePa walks on water.
.................................................. .................................................. ....
ETA
Not to diminish JoePa's accomplishments at PennSt.

From his reported action of listening to Mike McQ's narration in 2002. and then passng it up the line,
JoePa seemed to have met his obligation, per U. policy.
I don't know that an employee in his position was obligated to get details from McQ.
The criminal failing seems to fall more on the shouldrs of Curley, Schultz, and perhaps Spanier.

And that pesky little matter of alleged perjury by Curley & Schultz.

Rlaub44
01-15-2012, 12:02 AM
Tipstaff,
Sorry for misattributing the quotation to you.
Not a reflection on you. My bad.

Non-pursuit of contract renewal negotiations btwn a U. & 84 y/o is a "firing?"

Apparently yes, per those who think JoePa walks on water.
.................................................. .................................................. ....
ETA
Not to diminish JoePa's accomplishments at PennSt.

From his reported action of listening to Mike McQ's narration in 2002. and then passng it up the line,
JoePa seemed to have met his obligation, per U. policy.
I don't know that an employee in his position was obligated to get details from McQ.
The criminal failing seems to fall more on the shouldrs of Curley, Schultz, and perhaps Spanier.

And that pesky little matter of alleged perjury by Curley & Schultz.

Bold by me:

According to Paterno's interview, the term used in his brief phone conversation with Trustee Surma was "terminated". That and the fact that he was not allowed to return to coach the remaining games of the season definitely validates the fact that he was indeed fired as the head football coach. If it was a simple non-renewal of his contract, he would certainly have completed the remainder of the season

Some confusion persists because he is still considered employed as a tenured faculty member at the university, although he clearly no longer has any teaching responsibilities.

Reader
01-16-2012, 02:11 AM
Criminal cases against Jerry Sandusky may be combined

Read more here: http://www.centredaily.com/2012/01/14/3052178/criminal-cases-may-be-combined.html#storylink=cpy

Prosecutors have consolidated the two criminal cases against Jerry Sandusky and will try them as one, according to documents filed by the Attorney General’s Office on Friday.

Senior Deputy Attorney General Jonelle Eshbach filed a notice of consolidation in Centre County Court on Friday for the two cases that represent two separate arrests — one on Nov. 5 and the other on Dec. 7.

Eshbach also filed a motion to amend some of the indecent assault charges, but she wrote that the changes don’t involve new evidence.

The motion involves changing the subsection of five indecent assault charges under Pennsylvania criminal code.

Sandusky’s attorney, Joe Amendola, has until Tuesday to respond to the motion.
-------


Former Penn State Athletic Director Tim Curley and retired administrator Gary Schultz have entered not guilty pleas and will waive their formal arraignment on perjury and failure to [report] abuse charges in Dauphin County Court next week, their lawyers said Friday.


More at link...

Reader
01-16-2012, 02:17 AM
New Second Mile facility site for sale

Read more here: http://www.centredaily.com/2012/01/14/3052177/new-facility-site-for-sale.html#storylink=cpy

The Second Mile will sell the Patton Township property where two months ago it stopped construction on what was going to be its Center for Excellence, the organization announced Friday.

Construction on the 45,000- square-foot facility, at 2400 Bernel Road, was stopped in November after the charity’s founder, Jerry Sandusky, was charged with sexually abusing boys he met through the organization. The state froze a $3 million grant that had been given for the $9 million project.

More at link...

Steely Dan
01-16-2012, 05:22 AM
This pretty well sums up critical thinking re: the Paterno Washington Post "interview" piece (linked above):

Joe Paterno’s First Interview Since The Sandusky Scandal Is A Five Page Waste Of Time (http://deadspin.com/5876169/joe-paternos-first-interview-since-the-sandusky-scandal-is-a-five-page-waste-of-time?tag=pennstatescandal) (Deadspin)

Other highlights (lowlights?) of interview at link (and also another link to Washington Post interview itself)

:puke: Does he really expect any reasonable person to believe that or the other garbage he spews in that summary of the article?

Tipstaff
01-16-2012, 09:41 AM
For 50+ years families entrusted their sons to Joe Paterno and Staff. Paterno sat in the homes of these young men and promised their families they would get a great education, play football and mature into successful young men....his staff made these same promises.

Now he wants the public to believe HE DIDN'T KNOW WHAT TO DO when these allegations against Sandusky were presented to him. How long has 911 been around Jo.....three little numbers on your telephone key pad.

Not buying the pathetic interview because honestly it was all about poor Joe!

This interview was all about making him a sympathetic figure with his illness etc.

J. J. in Phila
01-16-2012, 11:38 AM
This will no doubt be unpopular here, but Paterno did the right thing initially, He took the report, and turned it over to the head of the law enforcement agency for that jurisdiction. He couldn't fire Sandusky, because Sandusky didn't work for him.

I think you can ask if Paterno had a legal obligation to follow up; he did not. The question is, did he do enough as a highly influential member of the faculty. Now, I think he might even answer yes to that. Joe Paterno failed to live up to the standard he set for himself; he failed at living up to the legend of being Joe Paterno.

All that said, there were others substantially more culpable in this case than Joe Paterno.

Chili Fries
01-16-2012, 12:34 PM
Paterno proves that living a long life and gaining wisdom are two different things.

StellarsJay
01-16-2012, 02:34 PM
The only thing that rang true for me in Paterno's ramble was that he thought he was so powerful that any calls he made to ask questions might affect Sandusky's outcome and he didn't want any responsiblity for that. But if this part of his "ethics" is unchanged, then he may be picking his words to avoid affecting McQueary, Curley and Schmidt. Saying he bumbled shields them, and this time it's true.

Staying out of it was also a big fu to the University after they tried to tell him he couldn't discipline his own players.
Lived his life among locker room jokes and the Church scandals and still couldn't understand? Piffle.
He understood, but he still doesn't get it- either the magnitude or that it was on his watch.
Sue gets it to some extent, does the motherly horror and threatens to kill, but to her it's still black and white, lives destroyed, get personal vengeance, not do what it would take to provide public protection. Maybe she would get to that if she had said more.

Joe would keep it private with his buddies, and it's worth a mere punch in the nose? Not a matter for police? The code of Omerta lives.

I now see why Jay couldn't stay at Penn- lots of reasons, some nothing to do with football.

Tipstaff
01-16-2012, 05:04 PM
This will no doubt be unpopular here, but Paterno did the right thing initially, He took the report, and turned it over to the head of the law enforcement agency for that jurisdiction. He couldn't fire Sandusky, because Sandusky didn't work for him.

I think you can ask if Paterno had a legal obligation to follow up; he did not. The question is, did he do enough as a highly influential member of the faculty. Now, I think he might even answer yes to that. Joe Paterno failed to live up to the standard he set for himself; he failed at living up to the legend of being Joe Paterno.

All that said, there were others substantially more culpable in this case than Joe Paterno.

Agree with everything but the last line - and to that I would say Joe Paterno was THE POWER at Penn State.

To say he waited because it was Saturday or the weekend - his biggest days of the week were Saturday. Game Day. All in all he failed morally - legally he skates. But he is a sick old man with an * by his name in the history books!

Enjoy your posts here and on Gricar!

J. J. in Phila
01-16-2012, 11:53 PM
Agree with everything but the last line - and to that I would say Joe Paterno was THE POWER at Penn State.

To say he waited because it was Saturday or the weekend - his biggest days of the week were Saturday. Game Day. All in all he failed morally - legally he skates. But he is a sick old man with an * by his name in the history books!



Paterno's power, such as it was, was based on his prestige, not on anything formal. He could not have fired Sandusky, because Sandusky didn't work for him. He couldn't ban Sandusky from campus, because Sandusky was a tenured professor. He could call 911, but what could he report? He didn't see anything. 911 would have transferred him to someone below Schultz.

If this were Professor Paterno, Chair of the English Department, and he had a report from a TA about a retired English professor doing the same thing, the process would have been the same. The difference is that the Chair of the English Department would not have the prestige Coach Paterno would have had.

Paterno had the prestige to press Schultz or walk into the President's Office and be heard; he should have asked what was determined by Schultz. Yes, he could, and should, have done that. That was his failing.

Steely Dan
01-16-2012, 11:59 PM
Paterno's power, such as it was, was based on his prestige, not on anything formal. He could not have fired Sandusky, because Sandusky didn't work for him. He couldn't ban Sandusky from campus, because Sandusky was a tenured professor. He could call 911, but what could he report? He didn't see anything. 911 would have transferred him to someone below Schultz.

If this were Professor Paterno, Chair of the English Department, and he had a report from a TA about a retired English professor doing the same thing, the process would have been the same. The difference is that the Chair of the English Department would not have the prestige Coach Paterno would have had.

Paterno had the prestige to press Schultz or walk into the President's Office and be heard; he should have asked what was determined by Schultz. Yes, he could, and should, have done that. That was his failing.

With all due respect, I don't buy that for a second. Paterno could have fired Sandusky if he wanted and nobody would have said boo to him about it. As for getting him banned from campus he could have done that by simply requesting it of the President. IMO, nobody would ever say no to Paterno. JMO

Tiki
01-17-2012, 12:02 AM
If Paterno felt he couldn't call 911 because he was not a witness, then he should have had McQueary - the witness - call LE. I don't give anyone any slack because of the college's procedures.
JMO

.

Reader
01-17-2012, 01:04 AM
With all due respect, I don't buy that for a second. Paterno could have fired Sandusky if he wanted and nobody would have said boo to him about it. As for getting him banned from campus he could have done that by simply requesting it of the President. IMO, nobody would ever say no to Paterno. JMO

I agree with you but remember in 2002 Sandusky was already retired with his 'special benefits' since 1999. That's when Paterno basically fired him when he told him he would never be head coach, conveniently after the 1998 investigation of JS.

Yes, with everything I've read so far it seems that Paterno was THE power at Penn. State and could have had the AD, police and Pres. do whatever he wanted them to. I don't buy this 'I didn't know what to do' boo hoo mess', or 'I was just following procedure'...he MADE the procedures...

ThoughtFox
01-17-2012, 01:28 AM
Paterno's power, such as it was, was based on his prestige, not on anything formal. He could not have fired Sandusky, because Sandusky didn't work for him. He couldn't ban Sandusky from campus, because Sandusky was a tenured professor. He could call 911, but what could he report? He didn't see anything. 911 would have transferred him to someone below Schultz.

If this were Professor Paterno, Chair of the English Department, and he had a report from a TA about a retired English professor doing the same thing, the process would have been the same. The difference is that the Chair of the English Department would not have the prestige Coach Paterno would have had.

Paterno had the prestige to press Schultz or walk into the President's Office and be heard; he should have asked what was determined by Schultz. Yes, he could, and should, have done that. That was his failing.

:cow:

Prestige = Power

He had the power to get rid of Sandusky and he knew it.

The great "unsaid" is that Sandusky was too tied up in the business deals and partnerships that were earning Paterno and his friends some sweet moolah. Nearly everyone was connected in some way to Second Mile, including Penn State itself. It's been well-documented by several people here on the threads and in the MSM.

Whatever happened to Second Mile also happened to Penn State, and that's exactly what has happened - Paterno's real fears were realized when this thing blew up in their faces. So that's why he didn't pull strings and get rid of Sandusky - the same strings would tangle all of them up in it, which is what happened. :twocents:

J. J. in Phila
01-17-2012, 02:41 AM
:cow:

Prestige = Power

He had the power to get rid of Sandusky and he knew it.


There I disagree with you. Paterno clearly had the influence to press the matter with the administration, but beyond that point, he had no additional power. He did not press it.

He, wrongly, believed that by reporting it, proper action was taken. He didn't follow up, and he, unlike some of the parties was in a position to follow up. I don't, for example, blame the investigator, who was not in a position to follow up, once the prosecutor said he wouldn't prosecute.



The great "unsaid" is that Sandusky was too tied up in the business deals and partnerships that were earning Paterno and his friends some sweet moolah. Nearly everyone was connected in some way to Second Mile, including Penn State itself. It's been well-documented by several people here on the threads and in the MSM.

Whatever happened to Second Mile also happened to Penn State, and that's exactly what has happened - Paterno's real fears were realized when this thing blew up in their faces. So that's why he didn't pull strings and get rid of Sandusky - the same strings would tangle all of them up in it, which is what happened. :twocents:

I don't disagree that there was a monetary motive and that the incestuous relationship between the Board and SM was there, but that wasn't Paterno.

Quiche
01-17-2012, 11:17 AM
They all failed those boys, all of them. The men of Penn State, their wives, the men and women of TSM, all of them. imo

When all is said and done, the reputation of Penn State, in reality, has nothing to do with these children being raped repeatedly-- the failure of the adults in the know to act on their behalf and STOP the crime is the gauge of culpability I'm going to use, and I dare say that courtroom will too. The jury will have a rather cut and dry issue to debate after all is said and done.

If Erickson really wanted to "take control" of the dialogue, he'd start admitting some failures now, and mending as much as he can before this trial eviscerates (completely) the reputation of his institution. TSM is sunk, and it should be. imo

StellarsJay
01-17-2012, 02:17 PM
If Paterno felt he couldn't call 911 because he was not a witness, then he should have had McQueary - the witness - call LE. I don't give anyone any slack because of the college's procedures.
JMO

.

Yes. Tiki.
Mike McQueary told all those senior men: Paterno, Curley, Schultz, Dranov, and to some extent I include his father John in this- and they all in effect said, "No, you don't need to call the police directly, leave it alone now and we'll take care of it." Instead any or all of them could have said, "If this can possibly be true, we'll all work together to stop it."

costalpilot
01-17-2012, 03:13 PM
....For an institution of higher learning, there's a lot of stupidity coming from their leadership. Why can't they see that they're beat, and STHU? Simply amazing to me.

imo because they live in an insular world which was DOMINATED by penn state football, and joe paterno. Power is an alluring and seductive drug.

consider the (controlled) jenkins "interview". if anyone wants to believe those were true statements coming out of joepa's (cute name isn't it) mouth, be my guest. but it is obvious to me that a Catholic man in America knows about adult men raping boys. OBVIOUS. but joe pa's atty's and advisors decided it is OK to have joepa say, "I never heard of such a thing."

how could they?

reminds me of bill clinton: depends on the definition of "is"? I never had sex with that woman.

how could handlers of an old man have him say that. how could they?

insular power.

costalpilot
01-17-2012, 03:32 PM
[QUOTE=J. J. in Phila;7520997]....There I disagree with you. Paterno clearly had the influence to press the matter with the administration, but beyond that point, he had no additional power. He did not press it.

He, wrongly, believed that by reporting it, proper action was taken.....QUOTE]

(my bold)

with respect, i do not believe that joepa believed "proper" action was taken, although i might, depending on your and joepa's definition of the word.

"proper" in the sense, "will this action protect the powerbase", yes. i agree.

it did that. he probably believed that, to a degree. but i'm sure that sometimes, just every now and then, dark images intruded into the king's thoughts. and he knew, if only for a second (before he pushed them away for a time), that evil had creeped into his house, and that he was responsible for allowing it to grow and fester and thrive.

J. J. in Phila
01-17-2012, 05:59 PM
with respect, i do not believe that joepa believed "proper" action was taken, although i might, depending on your and joepa's definition of the word.

"proper" in the sense, "will this action protect the powerbase", yes. i agree.

it did that. he probably believed that, to a degree. but i'm sure that sometimes, just every now and then, dark images intruded into the king's thoughts. and he knew, if only for a second (before he pushed them away for a time), that evil had creeped into his house, and that he was responsible for allowing it to grow and fester and thrive.

Legally, there was nothing more that Paterno could do. Point blank.

What authority he did have, was walking into the Curley's or Schultz's office and demanding that, if something did happen, the authorities, generally the DA's Office, be notified. If that failed, he could talk to Spanier. Now, should he have done those things? Yes. Would they have said that there was nothing wrong or that LE found nothing? Maybe. Maybe that would have made a difference.

That isn't a lot. Paterno was not the de facto head of Penn State, or Centre County. His formal authority over Sandusky didn't exist and even his prestige, great as it was, would not carry the day in the absence of any direct evidence on his part. He couldn't ban Sandusky from the campus because Sandusky was a tenured professor. He couldn't arrest Sandusky because he wasn't a cop. He could prosecute Sandusky, because he wasn't the DA.

I can fault Paterno for doing everything he could, but I can't fault him for doing nothing.

Concerned Papa
01-17-2012, 06:00 PM
There I disagree with you. Paterno clearly had the influence to press the matter with the administration, but beyond that point, he had no additional power. He did not press it.

He, wrongly, believed that by reporting it, proper action was taken. He didn't follow up, and he, unlike some of the parties was in a position to follow up. I don't, for example, blame the investigator, who was not in a position to follow up, once the prosecutor said he wouldn't prosecute.



I don't disagree that there was a monetary motive and that the incestuous relationship between the Board and SM was there, but that wasn't Paterno.

Paterno wasn't part of any monetary motive or incestuous relationship? Did you perhaps miss this picture?

http://i941.photobucket.com/albums/ad257/Papa813_bucket/120511-news-paterno-business-2-ss-6.jpg

The partners of Pinnacle Development, builders of the failed multi million dollar Villages at Penn State.

-William Schreyer, Trustee for Penn State University

-Robert Poole, Chairman of The Second Mile Board of Directors

-Joe Paterno, Head Coach of Penn State University

Concerned Papa
01-17-2012, 06:07 PM
Legally, there was nothing more that Paterno could do. Point blank.

What authority he did have, was walking into the Curley's or Schultz's office and demanding that, if something did happen, the authorities, generally the DA's Office, be notified. If that failed, he could talk to Spanier. Now, should he have done those things? Yes. Would they have said that there was nothing wrong or that LE found nothing? Maybe. Maybe that would have made a difference.

That isn't a lot. Paterno was not the de facto head of Penn State, or Centre County. His formal authority over Sandusky didn't exist and even his prestige, great as it was, would not carry the day in the absence of any direct evidence on his part. He couldn't ban Sandusky from the campus because Sandusky was a tenured professor. He couldn't arrest Sandusky because he wasn't a cop. He could prosecute Sandusky, because he wasn't the DA.

I can fault Paterno for doing everything he could, but I can't fault him for doing nothing.

I respectfully submit that there was MUCH more that Joe Paterno could have, and should have done to protect these children. Starting with calling the local police and working his way all the way to calling the President of The United States, if that's what it took.

I'm betting he had their phone numbers.

costalpilot
01-17-2012, 07:07 PM
[QUOTE=J. J. in Phila;7522461]Legally, there was nothing more that Paterno could do. Point blank.

..... Paterno was not the de facto head of Penn State.....QUOTE]


funny (kind of) that you put it that way, because many commentators believe that he WAS the "defacto" head of penn state. they believe this in part because when the AD and the President went to his house to fire him a number of years ago, he laughed at them and kicked them out the door.

that kind of reality is exactly what "de facto" means to me.

furthermore I don't for a minute believe that the bod actually had the nerve to fire joepa when they finally did. it was not lost on me (althou it seems to have been missed by the media entirely) that the Governor of Pennsylavnia gave a press conference with a very pointed and unsympathetic statement about the situation the day of the firing from State College.

i'm sure you recall joepa's statement to the board when they were considering action (once the grand jury report was released). i could look it up, but bascially it was this: "don't spend your time talking about me. I've made up my mind about me." that told me everything I needed to know about who was in charge in Sate College. Only Joepa didn't count on the governor.





The bod fired joepa only after the governor of Pennsylvania forced them to do it .How the media could completly overlook the obvious is a mystery to me.

thats my opinion.

its also the opinion of a lot of observors that joepa was in fact the defacto president of penn state---- whenever he cared to be, of course.

StellarsJay
01-17-2012, 10:30 PM
This is gossip from another board and I can't find through a Google a way to get a look at the annual reports of the Vermont based Nittany Insurance Company which provides "captive" liability insurance to Penn State. Apparently Schultz is a Director of this company and someone named Allan Anderson who was associated with Hershey Medical Center is another. Nittany would be covering Schultz and Curley?

costalpilot
01-17-2012, 10:37 PM
I'm glad to see the alumni holding these people's feet to the fire. :thumb:

according to the article they clapped loudest at the proposal that the folks responsible for joepa's firing step down.

the board knew what would happen to them if they fired the old man. which was why they didn't do it until they realized they had NO choice.

and that didn't happen until they literally had No choice, when the governor forced their hand. imo.

J. J. in Phila
01-17-2012, 11:01 PM
I respectfully submit that there was MUCH more that Joe Paterno could have, and should have done to protect these children. Starting with calling the local police and working his way all the way to calling the President of The United States, if that's what it took.

I'm betting he had their phone numbers.

The President is neither a policeman nor a prosecutor. Neither was Paterno.

I'm sorry, but Paterno exhausted his legal powers in 2002. He did not use up all his prestige to pursue this, and everyone would have been better off if he had. That I fault him for.

There were people, however, that had a simple duty to pursue this, without a need for expending prestige, Schultz, Lauro, and yes, Gricar (though neither of the latter two in 2002). I do fault Paterno, but no where near to the extent of the others.

costalpilot
01-18-2012, 01:10 AM
these penn STATERS are mad. they apparently aren't even paying attention to the talking points the University is pushing. They want action.

who are they mad at? the folks that canned their hero, JoePa, of course.

unbelievable.

http://www.philly.com/philly/insights/137362138.html?cmpid=15585797

J. J. in Phila
01-18-2012, 01:35 AM
these penn STATERS are mad. they apparently aren't even paying attention to the talking points the University is pushing. They want action.

who are they mad at? the folks that canned their hero, JoePa, of course.

unbelievable.

http://www.philly.com/philly/insights/137362138.html?cmpid=15585797

Quite believable, unfortunately.

While I think some of the comments here are more than a bit unfair, I don't disagree with the board position, either. Paterno made a mistake and should have done more, but on the scale of things he was not the main enabler. A lot of alumni think not being as bad as someone else is the same as being good.

BigCat
01-18-2012, 01:38 AM
according to the article they clapped loudest at the proposal that the folks responsible for joepa's firing step down.

the board knew what would happen to them if they fired the old man. which was why they didn't do it until they realized they had NO choice.

and that didn't happen until they literally had No choice, when the governor forced their hand. imo.

Here's a link to a clip from ESPN radio in which Cory Giger, a radio host in State College, describes the mood of the townhall crowd: http://espn.go.com/espnradio/play?id=7458475. He confirms what you suggest: the crowd's anger was directed at the BOT for how Paterno was treated. It's all about JoePa to them. His supporters are almost cult-like in their devotion. JMO.