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beach
12-29-2011, 04:29 PM
Please continue here.

Please remember that discussion of how this young girl ended up in that trailer is relevent to this case. The family is discussable to that end - but there is to be NO BASHING or TRASHING. We still do not know all the circumstances about why Aliahna was with this <modsnip>.

Also remember there is NO NAME CALLING, not even of the perp. I know that is difficult sometimes but we can do it.

Prayers for this little one, may she rest in peace and may her sisters find safety and be allowed to grow up. :(

MEDIA REFERENCE THREAD

Thread 1
Thread 2 (http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=7468775&posted=1#post7468775) Thread 3

Jayarre
12-29-2011, 04:35 PM
http://www.news-sentinel.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20111229/NEWS/111229627

Plumadore's court date changed to next week

Maybe a plea agreement.

matou
12-29-2011, 04:36 PM
Plumadore's court date changed to next week

http://www.news-sentinel.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20111229/NEWS/111229627

matou
12-29-2011, 04:37 PM
I'm thinking plea agreement and/or more charges if others are involved.

Minette
12-29-2011, 04:44 PM
Wouldn't it be awfully quick on the part of the DA to go to a plea agreement at this point??? The investigation could hardly be finished yet. I am thinking more charges and/or psychiatric evaluation.

Cher352
12-29-2011, 04:45 PM
Plumadore's court date changed to next week

http://www.news-sentinel.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20111229/NEWS/111229627
(bringing my questions from the closing thread)

Wonder what the reason is for the delay? Additional autopsy reports? Other charges? Accomplices? or just court backups?

Forgive me if I am wrong as I was sick at the beginning of the week but I thought at MP's first hearing that it was determined only that there was enough to hold him but he was not actually charged with A's death. Not sure how all this works but don't they only have so long to hold him without charging him? Anyone know?

I just hope there are no problems with the way anything was handled.

SunnyinMO
12-29-2011, 04:48 PM
http://www.news-sentinel.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20111229/NEWS/111229627

Plumadore's court date changed to next week

Maybe a plea agreement.

A plea agreement?? I sure hope not....I hope they are preparing additional charges!

AmandaReckonwith
12-29-2011, 04:48 PM
Case archive:

http://s296.photobucket.com/albums/mm166/crankycrankerson/Aliahna%20Lemmon%20%20-IN-/

Ladylub
12-29-2011, 04:49 PM
Wouldn't it be awfully quick on the part of the DA to go to a plea agreement at this point??? The investigation could hardly be finished yet. I am thinking more charges and/or psychiatric evaluation.

A plea deal might be made if he tells them about others being involved and he has proof. I hope they would not just jump to a plea deal to get him to tell what he did.

SunnyinMO
12-29-2011, 04:51 PM
Does he have a paid attorney or a PD? I can't believe a plea deal is in the making.....perhaps something to do with a PD and/or change of attorney.

TexasCharm
12-29-2011, 04:51 PM
Subbing. I'm at home sick, but checking WS regularly for updates.

I hope her murder was not in vain ... Praying those other children will have better lives now and grow up to be counselors, LE, or prosecutors!

SurfieTX
12-29-2011, 04:52 PM
(bringing my questions from the closing thread)

Wonder what the reason is for the delay? Additional autopsy reports? Other charges? Accomplices? or just court backups?

Forgive me if I am wrong as I was sick at the beginning of the week but I thought at MP's first hearing that it was determined only that there was enough to hold him but he was not actually charged with A's death. Not sure how all this works but don't they only have so long to hold him without charging him? Anyone know?

I just hope there are no problems with the way anything was handled.

Has the Grand Jury heard his case yet? When do they normally meet?

billisbobby
12-29-2011, 04:54 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by billisbobby View Post
No joke. Did the female who gave birth to Alihana sacrifice her daughter? I don't mean that in reference to Wiccans.,...........................but I think that's an angle that needs to be checked out by LE.

Even with all the evil in this world, what mother moves her little girls to a tp full of RSO......a trailer park her daughter was killed in?

I think there is something most sinister going on here. imoo


tlcox-
your post confused me but after rereading, I think I may have gotten the gist of it. You mean sacrifice as in hand her over knowingly to a bad person as his victim, correct? Not like sacrifice as in some sort of ritual (wiccan reference? We don't do human sacrifices btw, that is rumored to be satanists area).

I honestly don't know what caused these girls to be in "uncle Mike"'s care but I sure as he// hope someone in authority is asking these kinds of questions of mom.
__________________
Websleuths Lingo [url]http://www.websleuths.com/forums


BBM/ color red bm

My post is pretty clear. I plainly stated -bolded and highlighted in red-----that I DONT MEAN THAT IN REFERENCE TO WICCANS.

On the other page (thread) it was posted that the mother is Wiccan. Prehaps reading that again will help. :seeya:
imoo

MsFacetious
12-29-2011, 04:57 PM
I can't help myself from forming an opinion when I see a news headline reading what he communicated to press, "Father of slain girl says he's overcome with grief" -then see FB basic information saying:

About me: "i have 2 great girls"
Activities: "Taking Care of Daughters" (listed as only activity)

Really? Don't you kinda have 3 daughters, man? You taking good care of em, are ya?

That's all I have to say about that. It just gets my goat big time.

There are two daughters.

Ali and B*****

There are two daughters on his myspace.

On his my space the pictures themselves are actually labeled, Ali and B*****.

There are two daughters on his facebook, though all the pictures are not labeled with names, he lists them as family.

B****** Maroney
Daughter
2 years

Aliahna Maroney Lemmon
Daughter
9 years

Now on the fiance/wife situation, I have no idea. But the daughter situation... I have figured that out.

They ARE older pictures of Ali. It appears he probably hasn't seen Ali since they moved out of the state. :twocents:

AmandaReckonwith
12-29-2011, 05:01 PM
It's a blended family, his hers ours.

Ali is his (Dawayne) daughter with Tarah.

officer'swife 2010
12-29-2011, 05:04 PM
I myself have wondered if the other children knew what was going on? And I'm not sure if there was a pediophile ring going on or not, but the grandmother was very defensive of this man....

those poor children, i just cant imagaine.....I wonder if they have took them to the dr to see if anything went on with them as well? Ugh reading this makes me want to throw up its the most disturbing thing i've ever read in my life all 26 years....

bam
12-29-2011, 05:09 PM
I think how Plumadore was met James Shorty Lemmon is a farce by Shumaker to get feds off how the family really know Plumadore to keep from investigating all of them. Too many coincidences in my opinion!

matou
12-29-2011, 05:10 PM
I want to know if the girls were in school up until the Wednesday of that week (21st)?

Cher352
12-29-2011, 05:10 PM
Has the Grand Jury heard his case yet? When do they normally meet?

Correct me if I am wrong but a Grand Jury doesn't hear every case only the ones where if is questionable on whether to charge or not, right?

billisbobby
12-29-2011, 05:10 PM
I myself have wondered if the other children knew what was going on? And I'm not sure if there was a pediophile ring going on or not, but the grandmother was very defensive of this man....

those poor children, i just cant imagaine.....I wonder if they have took them to the dr to see if anything went on with them as well? Ugh reading this makes me want to throw up its the most disturbing thing i've ever read in my life all 26 years....

I can't even think about other children being hurt. My heart hurts............

tlcya
12-29-2011, 05:14 PM
BBM/ color red bm

My post is pretty clear. I plainly stated -bolded and highlighted in red-----that I DONT MEAN THAT IN REFERENCE TO WICCANS.

On the other page (thread) it was posted that the mother is Wiccan. Prehaps reading that again will help. :seeya:
imoo

thank you for clarifying. While I try to read all posts that is not always possible when I am simply popping in during a break in my workday to check for new developments.

Again, thanks for clarifying. :seeya:

Boss 302
12-29-2011, 05:16 PM
The 21st was the last day of school

billisbobby
12-29-2011, 05:17 PM
thank you for clarifying. While I try to read all posts that is not always possible when I am simply popping in during a break in my workday to check for new developments.

Again, thanks for clarifying. :seeya:

I'm at work too, I know how it is. :seeya:

AmandaReckonwith
12-29-2011, 05:18 PM
I asked elsewhere but cannot remember where I saw this or if it related to this case...
Is there a picture of Tarah with tattoos and does her husband have a picture of that on a fb... and... is it some kind of evil symbol or is it like a tribal tattoo... or a band logo or what?

matou
12-29-2011, 05:18 PM
Heartbreaking info from a little school friend and her mom: http://www.herald-mail.com/news/hm-girl-brutally-slain-in-indiana-had-lived-in-hagerstown-20111229,0,2373850.story

lauriej
12-29-2011, 05:18 PM
http://www.journalgazette.net/article/20111229/LOCAL07/312299982/1043



A small Iowa community pulled together to raise money to send the father of 9-year-old Aliahna Marie Maroney Lemmon to Fort Wayne to bury his daughter.

The sheriff said he gave money out of his pocket, and reserve deputies also donated money, to help get Maroney to Indiana. Other donations from the community came in to provide Maroney with money to eat and for other expenses while in Fort Wayne, the sheriff said.

“It’s the right thing to do,” Anderson said. “He needs to be with his daughter. As tragic as it is, he just needs to have some final closure.”

Boss 302
12-29-2011, 05:19 PM
I want to know if the girls were in school up until the Wednesday of that week (21st)?

That is a good ? Because I believe they said the last time TS saw her was Tues. afternoon when they got off the bus.

neese
12-29-2011, 05:19 PM
(bringing my questions from the closing thread)

Wonder what the reason is for the delay? Additional autopsy reports? Other charges? Accomplices? or just court backups?

Forgive me if I am wrong as I was sick at the beginning of the week but I thought at MP's first hearing that it was determined only that there was enough to hold him but he was not actually charged with A's death. Not sure how all this works but don't they only have so long to hold him without charging him? Anyone know?

I just hope there are no problems with the way anything was handled.

I know. It originally said he was being held on a 72 hour hold??

not_my_kids
12-29-2011, 05:20 PM
So, let me see...The other con (GS) introduced grandfather Lemmon and Plumadore, presumably grandfather Lemmon introduced Plumadore to Tarah, and the girls, and Tarah then introduced Plumadore to Ali's bio father.
That is what I get from the media articles.

However, what I get from other articles, facebook, and general discussion is that although Lemmon and Plumadore didn't begin their arrangement until 8/2011, somehow, Ali's father, who has had very little contact with her lately, according to his statements, knew Plumadore, even though he allegedly didn't meet the rest of the family until August or possibly even September of 2011...

Something just isn't working out here, but it's likely something that I am missing. What am I doing wrong, reading wrong, or misinterpreting?

OneLove
12-29-2011, 05:21 PM
I can't even think about other children being hurt. My heart hurts............

Since there is often a tiny grain of truth to the lies of sociopaths, I'm concerned that the reported cries of nightmares could actually have been the sisters the night after A's death. There is nooooo telling what went on in that house of horrors. :(

matou
12-29-2011, 05:26 PM
That is a good ? Because I believe they said the last time TS saw her was Tues. afternoon when they got off the bus.

I saw the school sign too and it says holidays start on the 22nd (Thursday) so the last day of school was Wednesday the 21st. I thought MP was taking care of the girls for a week so what was the first day that he was 'babysitting?' If Aliahna's mom saw her on Tuesday getting off the bus (I didn't know this part), did she see her from her trailer or did she meet her there? Aliahna was dead on the Wed/Thurs boundary. I'm confused by this now.

Ladylub
12-29-2011, 05:26 PM
So, let me see...The other con (GS) introduced grandfather Lemmon and Plumadore, presumably grandfather Lemmon introduced Plumadore to Tarah, and the girls, and Tarah then introduced Plumadore to Ali's bio father.
That is what I get from the media articles.

However, what I get from other articles, facebook, and general discussion is that although Lemmon and Plumadore didn't begin their arrangement until 8/2011, somehow, Ali's father, who has had very little contact with her lately, according to his statements, knew Plumadore, even though he allegedly didn't meet the rest of the family until August or possibly even September of 2011...

Something just isn't working out here, but it's likely something that I am missing. What am I doing wrong, reading wrong, or misinterpreting?

You are not doing anything wrong. Im not understanding all this either. I asked that same question earlier today. It is said that TS and MP lived in Iowa around the same time so maybe they meet in Iowa if they lived near each other.

Evan's Mom
12-29-2011, 05:29 PM
Heartbreaking info from a little school friend and her mom: http://www.herald-mail.com/news/hm-girl-brutally-slain-in-indiana-had-lived-in-hagerstown-20111229,0,2373850.story

From that article, I'm assuming the friend either lives in the trailer park or very close to it since the girls rode bikes after school together.
What I'd like to know is, just how many kids live that close all of those RSOs in the trailer park?

officer'swife 2010
12-29-2011, 05:31 PM
This is all so confusing....maybe the cops will release something soon? This poor sweet baby had so many problems. And you're probably right, the nightmares were probably from the sisters after what they saw happen.....:( God what is wrong with this world?

Kat
12-29-2011, 05:32 PM
IMHO even though media is reporting he has been charged with murder (some are, some are just saying he's being held for murder) I'm not sure he's been formally charged as of yet.

I'm under the impression that the first hearing is where he went before a judge and the judge told him that there was probable cause to go forward with a charge of murder and that he will either be held or not held.

Looks like he's being held. I don't know what the judge said, I haven't seen that a reporter was in the courtroom (I might have missed that).

So I don't know if he was even offered a PD yet. That sometimes doesn't happen until the 2nd appearance.

Just following along. Now that they've arrested him we all know that this is going to take a while. They are still investigating and waiting for autopsy results (tox tests can take weeks sometimes depending on what they are screening for, and there is no way to hurry up those tests that do take weeks for results, they just take that amount of time to complete)

This is the part that makes me antsy. Waiting...

all JMHO

MsFacetious
12-29-2011, 05:32 PM
http://www.journalgazette.net/article/20111229/LOCAL07/312299982/1043

The sheriff said he gave money out of his pocket, and reserve deputies also donated money, to help get Maroney to Indiana.

“It’s the right thing to do,” Anderson said. “He needs to be with his daughter. As tragic as it is, he just needs to have some final closure.”


I can't think of a way to say this without it coming across as offensive...
In my experience, where I am... this likely wouldn't have happened.

Example: Elizabeth Smart and Destiny Norton.
Which one are you more familiar with?

So this is interesting to me, because here this family would not get much help. :banghead:

I wonder if the Sheriff knows him personally? Knows that he is a good guy who is just having a hard time?
Regardless of why... I am very thankful that this Sheriff and his Deputies pulled together.
I wish that my area was more willing to help people who are "less fortunate" than they are. :twocents:

smittles
12-29-2011, 05:35 PM
http://www.wane.com/dpp/news/local/family-moves-aliahnas-belongings

"Aliahna Lemmon's stepfather, Allen Souders, tells The News-Sentinel ( http://bit.ly/t8ArVc (http://bit.ly/t8ArVc) ) that his wife couldn't bear to look at her daughter's possessions after what happened so he was moving them to a storage facility."

Don't know if this was posted yet, probably was....I'm always behind. I am from Fort Wayne. I moved away about 10 yrs ago but go up almost yearly as I still have family and friends up there. Anyways, I've heard from several close friends that the memorial was taken down by TS. This case is just beyond sad.

Kat
12-29-2011, 05:39 PM
I racked my brain last night, and I can't come up with any way for this to be a plea deal.

He admitted to killing her. So even if they don't determine the COD (just theorizing about that I'm sure they probably will) he already stated in a interview that he killed her and dismembered her.

For being a prior felon that was a pretty stupid move on his part. JMHO. Kind of surprising too. That's why I don't trust what he said is really what happened prior to the dismemberment. JMHO

Dr. Know?
12-29-2011, 05:41 PM
He hasn't been formally charged. That was to happen Friday. I'm glad that they have pushed the formal charges back so they can add to them next week.

http://www.herald-mail.com/news/hm-girl-brutally-slain-in-indiana-had-lived-in-hagerstown-20111229,0,2373850.story

The classmate in this article posted above lives in Ali's old town. Not where she was murdered. There are other children living in the pedo park though. Hope they get the children out!!!

smittles
12-29-2011, 05:41 PM
I can't think of a way to say this without it coming across as offensive...
In my experience, where I am... this likely wouldn't have happened.

Example: Elizabeth Smart and Destiny Norton.
Which one are you more familiar with?

So this is interesting to me, because here this family would not get much help. :banghead:

I wonder if the Sheriff knows him personally? Knows that he is a good guy who is just having a hard time?
Regardless of why... I am very thankful that this Sheriff and his Deputies pulled together.
I wish that my area was more willing to help people who are "less fortunate" than they are. :twocents:

I am from Fort Wayne and I can honestly say people up there are just like that. I am in Dallas/Fort Worth area now and although people here are very nice, I don't get the sense of community here that I did there. Don't get me wrong, I LOVE DFW. When my car would break down and leave me on the side of the road up there, I would have 5-10 cars stop and want to help. Here, I'm lucky if one person pulls over.

Kat
12-29-2011, 05:45 PM
He hasn't been formally charged. That was to happen today. I'm glad that they have pushed the formal charges back so they can add to them next week.

http://www.herald-mail.com/news/hm-girl-brutally-slain-in-indiana-had-lived-in-hagerstown-20111229,0,2373850.story

The classmate in this article posted above lives in Ali's old town. Not where she was murdered. There are other children living in the pedo park though. Hope they get the children out!!!

Thanks Dr. K!

Also just a note to those that don't follow the trial phase of crimes closely.

Any charge initially brought forth can be ammended before start of trial. Meaning if they only charge him with murder next week, as the test results come back and as the investigation unfolds and comes to a close if there are other crimes found they can and usually will ammend to add those. JMHO :)

menmo
12-29-2011, 05:47 PM
Okay I understand we're not to sleuth the victims. Even though I don't consider TS or AS as victims, I'll accept and obey the rules but..........

I would love to know more about the background not only of MP, but also TS.
Was TS the only child that was available and wanted or would help her SO father? Where are her siblings? Do they have any relationship with her, her husband, and children? Did they have a relationship with their father? Do they have one with their mother?
Just curious because maybe the others have distanced themselves from this man, and possibly TS and her lifestyle.
Just not hearing from any of them, except AS (TS mom) when she was saying how much she trusted MP, makes me question if they all walked away from their bio family to save themselves and their kids, and if so why didn't TS?

MOO

ETA~Not sleuthing...just pondering

Donjeta
12-29-2011, 05:50 PM
So, let me see...The other con (GS) introduced grandfather Lemmon and Plumadore, presumably grandfather Lemmon introduced Plumadore to Tarah, and the girls, and Tarah then introduced Plumadore to Ali's bio father.
That is what I get from the media articles.

However, what I get from other articles, facebook, and general discussion is that although Lemmon and Plumadore didn't begin their arrangement until 8/2011, somehow, Ali's father, who has had very little contact with her lately, according to his statements, knew Plumadore, even though he allegedly didn't meet the rest of the family until August or possibly even September of 2011...

Something just isn't working out here, but it's likely something that I am missing. What am I doing wrong, reading wrong, or misinterpreting?

An article said that MP and JL lived together off and on for four years.

Donjeta
12-29-2011, 05:55 PM
Forensic psychologist Stephen Ross said understanding how someone can commit that crime can be done. In the profession for 20 years, Ross has participated in more than 300 court cases through evaluation of defendants and testifying.

According to Ross it is possible that upon evaluation, a person like Lemmon’s murderer could ultimately be described as a psychopath; one who lacks remorse or conscience when acting criminally.

http://www.wane.com/dpp/news/doctor-says-a-murderer-can-be-understood-dbl



"You saw how powerful social media can be in driving the story, driving awareness of a disappearance," social media expert Kevin Erb said.

People filled pages with pictures of Lemmon in hopes someone would recognize her and return Lemmon back home.

Once news broke they found her dead the mood online drastically changed.

"People really came together identifying with the mother, identifying with the emotional issues she must have been feeling, you know the sense of empathy that comes with that."

http://www.wane.com/dpp/news/social-medias-role-in-helping-to-find-missing-people

officer'swife 2010
12-29-2011, 05:58 PM
If he has confessed and they have proof of the body, why they haven't charged him yet. the sheriff said night before last on NG that the autoposy reports are back but they couldnt release any info......does he have to wait until his hearing? I will say this, I think cops handled this really well.....let's hope he gets the max sentence...

MsFacetious
12-29-2011, 05:59 PM
I am from Fort Wayne and I can honestly say people up there are just like that. I am in Dallas/Fort Worth area now and although people here are very nice, I don't get the sense of community here that I did there. Don't get me wrong, I LOVE DFW. When my car would break down and leave me on the side of the road up there, I would have 5-10 cars stop and want to help. Here, I'm lucky if one person pulls over.

I guess that Ali should have stayed there then? Maybe someone would have helped her? :(
I really need to move. I've never lived somewhere with people who treat everyone like that, equally.

Even after a hit and run accident I was in my car bleeding for over an hour, watched at least 3 ambulances and 4 officers drive by me.
Not to mention the regular citizens. My family was an hour away and they got to me before anyone else stopped.

There is a reason I take a week's worth of food, water and gear when we go into the canyons or mountains.
Even if you simply got stuck in the snow... you could be there until someone you know happens to drive by. :banghead:

concentric
12-29-2011, 06:02 PM
Okay I understand we're not to sleuth the victims. Even though I don't consider TS or AS as victims, I'll accept and obey the rules but..........

I would love to know more about the background not only of MP, but also TS.
Was TS the only child that was available and wanted or would help her SO father? Where are her siblings? Do they have any relationship with her, her husband, and children? Did they have a relationship with their father? Do they have one with their mother?
Just curious because maybe the others have distanced themselves from this man, and possibly TS and her lifestyle.
Just not hearing from any of them, except the AS (TS mom) when she was saying how much she trusted MP, makes me question if they all walked away from their bio family to save themselves and their kids, and if so why didn't TS?
MOO

ETA~Not sleuthing...just pondering

Why/when did the SO grandfather and MP summon TS and children to help? Apparently for four years SO grandfather and MP did OK?

not_my_kids
12-29-2011, 06:03 PM
An article said that MP and JL lived together off and on for four years.

Ok, so how could this ex con, GS, have introduced MP and grandfather Lemmon? It would have been Tarah introducing him to everyone, if he was living with her off and on for several years.

So what, we have some sources that are saying MP really was a trusted friend, and that he had been friends with Tarah for years, and others that are saying MP was introduced to grandfather Lemmon in August...

My head is going to explode...

not_my_kids
12-29-2011, 06:06 PM
I guess that Ali should have stayed there then? Maybe someone would have helped her? :(
I really need to move. I've never lived somewhere with people who treat everyone like that, equally.

Even after a hit and run accident I was in my car bleeding for over an hour, watched at least 3 ambulances and 4 officers drive by me.
Not to mention the regular citizens. My family was an hour away and they got to me before anyone else stopped.

There is a reason I take a week's worth of food, water and gear when we go into the canyons or mountains.
Even if you simply got stuck in the snow... you could be there until someone you know happens to drive by. :banghead:

I know how you feel, I read an article for class a little while ago, about a homeless man that tried to stop a pursesnatcher. The thug stabbed him four times, and he bled to death on the sidewalk because the people walking by just stepped over him...there were at least a dozen witnesses to the stabbing and many more that walked past without even looking at him.

And I remember wondering if it happened in my city because that's how people are here.

not_my_kids
12-29-2011, 06:08 PM
Why/when did the SO grandfather and MP summon TS and children to help? Apparently for four years SO grandfather and MP did OK?

depending on who you believe, MP had only been at the trailer since August, which would be after TS and Co. arrived in July...

I'm going to go gather some links and make sure no info has been changed, because the only thing I can think of is that someone is reporting bad info, or someone is lying.

stunned again
12-29-2011, 06:11 PM
Had to jump in here finally!! When my husband died of a Heart attack at the ripe old age of 38, his family cleaned me out of everthing. EXCEPT his favorite black and red flannel shirt, which I was wearing. This past year, parts ( quilt pieces) have gone to his 1st granddaughter and his gerat niece and his 2nd grand daugterr both due in Feb!!! ( How glad I was that I was wearing it that day!!!!

officer'swife 2010
12-29-2011, 06:13 PM
Did the tralier belong to the family? Because the grandmother said the little girl wanted to sleep in the chair that her grandfather died in, and she was wearing the outfit she wore when she went to his funeral, right?

al66pine
12-29-2011, 06:14 PM
NOISE
Some posts asked: how could perp have carried out murder and dismemberment inside (or outside) his trailer?
Wouldn’t Ali fight back, raise a ruckus little sisters or neighbors could have heard?
Wouldn’t little sisters have heard the attack and raised a ruckus?
Wouldn’t neighbors have heard and called 911?

A: possibly perp was forcing Ali and little sisters to take sedating drugs (Benedryl, or Rx, or street drug) to keep them from hearing perp’s attack, Ali fending off his attack, and little sisters from hearing, and neighbors from hearing, if the tlr pk ‘white noise’ did not cover it.
Perp may have given/forced drugs prior to this, as well.
Also poss that residents there might have heard but not called 911, to keep their contacts w. LE as ltd as poss.


VISUALS
Same is possible re his self-reported action of using brick on her head on the stairs.
BTW, in video clips of what I understand is perp’s/G’pa’s trailer, there is a looooong ramp and no stairs? Is this Ali’s mom’s place instead?
Or is there another exit w. stairs, no ramp?
If it is perp’s trailer, looks like ramp faces neighbor’s trailer w. a homemade extension on side, and like neighbor has no window opposite/facing perp’s ramp (imo).

So next door neighbor might not have bn able to see action he described. Others, maybe.
Or if perp used brick on Ali’s head, was he in fact on stairs elsewhere, not ramp-- so a slip of tongue?

Just thinkin'.

Jacie Estes
12-29-2011, 06:15 PM
I asked elsewhere but cannot remember where I saw this or if it related to this case...
Is there a picture of Tarah with tattoos and does her husband have a picture of that on a fb... and... is it some kind of evil symbol or is it like a tribal tattoo... or a band logo or what?

It is on AS's myspace. It's not tribal, it is actually a nicely done tat of a pentagram. I have a dream-catcher and a feather, more my taste. The info was on thread #3

matou
12-29-2011, 06:18 PM
http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2011/12/27/article-2078733-0F47708B00000578-2_634x465.jpg

Is this MP's trailer? I can't see how he could have hit her in the head multiple times with a brick and there not be blood splatter everywhere. Did he place a bag on her head first before he bludgeoned her? I'm sure she screamed (i.e the night terrors) and if she was outside, then the neighbors would have heard. I'm at a loss here. I'm starting to think like someone else who posted that people do not snitch on others in this particular trailer park community.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2079419/Aliahna-Lemmon-murder-Killer-babysitter-Michael-Plumadore-poses-cameras.html

Kat
12-29-2011, 06:19 PM
If he has confessed and they have proof of the body, why they haven't charged him yet. the sheriff said night before last on NG that the autoposy reports are back but they couldnt release any info......does he have to wait until his hearing? I will say this, I think cops handled this really well.....let's hope he gets the max sentence...

Answers off the top of my head:

1. First and foremost, just because he said he did "this and that" to Aliahna doesn't mean he's telling the truth about it. They still are investigating.

2. This portion is legal. There are formal steps in the judicial process that must be followed. If they aren't followed then that opens the door for all kinds of issues for the State in prosecuting a case.

3. LE has given info and evidence to the State already. They are still giving info and evidence to the State, and will probably continue to do so for quite some time. The State will then bring forth charges based on info and evidence.

This takes time. The trial may happen in 2012 or it may take longer than that. JMHO :)

matou
12-29-2011, 06:20 PM
Is there a drug that paralyzes people from the waist down? I seem to remember something awful from the Zahra Baker case.

Jacie Estes
12-29-2011, 06:22 PM
http://www.journalgazette.net/article/20111229/LOCAL07/312299982/1043

It's good that DM is going to Aliahna's funeral; he is her daddy and he should be there. Despite any past history or problems, her funeral is the place where all of that should be put away, out of respect for her. I truly hope it doesn't turn into one of those 'youtube' moments.

concentric
12-29-2011, 06:23 PM
NOISE
Some posts asked: how could perp have carried out murder and dismemberment inside (or outside) his trailer?
Wouldn’t Ali fight back, raise a ruckus little sisters or neighbors could have heard?
Wouldn’t little sisters have heard the attack and raised a ruckus?
Wouldn’t neighbors have heard and called 911?

A: possibly perp was forcing Ali and little sisters to take sedating drugs (Benedryl, or Rx, or street drug) to keep them from hearing perp’s attack, Ali fending off his attack, and little sisters from hearing, and neighbors from hearing, if the tlr pk ‘white noise’ did not cover it.
Perp may have given/forced drugs prior to this, as well.
Also poss that residents there might have heard but not called 911, to keep their contacts w. LE as ltd as poss.


VISUALS
Same is possible re his self-reported action of using brick on her head on the stairs.
BTW, in video clips of what I understand is perp’s/G’pa’s trailer, there is a looooong ramp and no stairs? Is this Ali’s mom’s place instead?
Or is there another exit w. stairs, no ramp?
If it is perp’s trailer, looks like ramp faces neighbor’s trailer w. a homemade extension on side, and like neighbor has no window opposite/facing perp’s ramp (imo).

So next door neighbor might not have bn able to see action he described. Others, maybe.
Or if perp used brick on Ali’s head, was he in fact on stairs elsewhere, not ramp-- so a slip of tongue?

Just thinkin'.
-----------

I've thought about the noise factor myself from the beginning.

That is why I had my doubts this is what truly happened.

I suggested the vehicle, or was it another location?

not_my_kids
12-29-2011, 06:26 PM
"He kind of kept to himself," Tulley said, adding James Lemmon had occasionally admitted to him that he would have to put Plumamdore "in his place."

Tulley said these infrequent conflicts stemmed from James Lemmon wanting to do too much – such as run errands himself – as his health deteriorated and Plumamdore interfering, telling the man he should rest instead.

"Everybody's personality's different," Tulley said. "I knew that they had some tiffs before because Michael tried to control him. … Jimmy always put him back in his place. 'This is my trailer. If you don't like it, there's the door.' "

However, Tulley added he only heard of those accounts secondhand and does not believe they were frequent or severe enough to prompt a serious crime.
http://www.journalgazette.net/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20111227/LOCAL07/111229617

There's his trigger...the old man kept him in line. But then the old man died...

ETA: And this article says that MP and grandfather Lemmon would often do laundry together at a different trailer, and that answers the question of whether the old man was bedridden or not.

Jacie Estes
12-29-2011, 06:27 PM
http://www.journalgazette.net/article/20111229/LOCAL07/312299982/1043


http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2011/12/27/article-2078733-0F47708B00000578-2_634x465.jpg

Is this MP's trailer? I can't see how he could have hit her in the head multiple times with a brick and there not be blood splatter everywhere. Did he place a bag on her head first before he bludgeoned her? I'm sure she screamed (i.e the night terrors) and if she was outside, then the neighbors would have heard. I'm at a loss here. I'm starting to think like someone else who posted that people do not snitch on others in this particular trailer park community.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2079419/Aliahna-Lemmon-murder-Killer-babysitter-Michael-Plumadore-poses-cameras.html

I see the propane grill to the left of the door but what is in between the grill and the door? I hope it isn't a portable composter. :(

Minette
12-29-2011, 06:27 PM
Answers off the top of my head:

1. First and foremost, just because he said he did "this and that" to Aliahna doesn't mean he's telling the truth about it. They still are investigating.

2. This portion is legal. There are formal steps in the judicial process that must be followed. If they aren't followed then that opens the door for all kinds of issues for the State in prosecuting a case.

3. LE has given info and evidence to the State already. They are still giving info and evidence to the State, and will probably continue to do so for quite some time. The State will then bring forth charges based on info and evidence.

This takes time. The trial may happen in 2012 or it may take longer than that. JMHO :)

This is SUCH a good post! I had to bold that one part because it is so very true--he may very well have said those things, but the evidence may not bear out that it happened that way. In the mind of someone who is capable of doing such things to a child, the version of bashing her in the head with a brick may seem 'nicer' than what actually happened. In fact, IMO it is quite likely that bashing her in the head with a brick WOULD be nicer than what actually happened. :(

Minette
12-29-2011, 06:28 PM
I see the propane grill to the left of the door but what is in between the grill and the door? I hope it isn't a portable composter. :(

It might be a smoker grill.

tiff07
12-29-2011, 06:29 PM
This case tears me up inside. It's awful. Coming here and seeing hundreds of posters who care, who say it's not ok what happened to this little girl, that is the upside. It means that evil monsters of this world don't dominate. Fundamental decency still exists.

not_my_kids
12-29-2011, 06:29 PM
It might be a smoker grill.

That is exactly what it is. I haul scrap metal, and I get many of them a year. I can recognize that shape from anywhere, LOL.

Bittiness39
12-29-2011, 06:33 PM
So the family boxed up all of Ali's stuff to take to a storage facility? I guess the paralysis is over. Plus, I'd bet that is not all they are packing...probably gearing up for yet another move. JMO.

I find it a bit odd that all of her stuff was boxed up so quickly...especially, when the mom has all of these "health issues"

Donjeta
12-29-2011, 06:36 PM
If I've got this right (and if all these RSOs are telling the truth) MP had lived with JL and known the family three or four years, shortly moved away but then moved back a few months ago (August) when TS asked him to.

Source: J. Smead (RSO):

Michael Plumadore had been back in the Northway mobile home park just months when he was arrested Monday on a murder charge.

Plumadore lived with the late James "Shorty" Lemmon off and on for four years at the mobile home park at North Clinton Street and Diebold Road, neighbor Jerry Smead said. Plumadore also had at least seven known residences in the past decade – including in Florida and North Carolina.

http://www.journalgazette.net/article/20111228/LOCAL07/312289939/1002/LOCAL

Source: M. Tulley (RSO)


Mike Tulley, a neighbor, said James Lemmon had a number of health issues including emphysema, and Plumadore had cared for the ailing man since August. Plumadore considered Lemmon a father figure, Tulley says.

Not clear who the source for the following is:

When Plumadore first moved to Northway, he had lived with residents who were not connected to the Lemmons. When the two men met, they hit it off. Lemmon asked Plumadore if he could cook and was clean, and Plumadore moved in.

Source: M. Plumadore (felon):


He eventually moved back South, but when he heard Lemmon was ill, he moved back in with the man and cared for him as he was dying, Plumadore said in an interview Sunday.

Source: G. Shumaker (RSO)

Shumaker said he introduced Plumadore to Lemmon shortly after Plumadore moved into the trailer park, and Plumadore moved in with Lemmon a few days later. Shumaker said he knew Lemmon because they were both sex offenders and were in jail together.

...

Shumaker said Plumadore briefly moved away, but returned when Souders asked him to care for her father.

http://www.bsudailynews.com/mobile/suspect-in-ind-girl-s-death-cared-for-her-grandpa-1.2683103

Source: R. Patee (RSO)

Richard Patee, 58, whose trailer is next to where Plumadore was living, said he didn't think it was odd that Aliahna's mother had him watching the girls for an extended period.

"They had known each other for somewhere of three to four years, I know that, and he took care of their grandfather," Patee said. "I didn't see any reason to question it at all."

jjenny
12-29-2011, 06:40 PM
Wouldn't it be awfully quick on the part of the DA to go to a plea agreement at this point??? The investigation could hardly be finished yet. I am thinking more charges and/or psychiatric evaluation.

Wouldn't be the first time. Remember the guy who killed Amber Dubios and Chelsea King? That was quick plea agreement.

billisbobby
12-29-2011, 06:41 PM
Since there is often a tiny grain of truth to the lies of sociopaths, I'm concerned that the reported cries of nightmares could actually have been the sisters the night after A's death. There is nooooo telling what went on in that house of horrors. :(

OneLove, This is a hard case to follow. I will for Aliahna.

AmandaReckonwith
12-29-2011, 06:50 PM
http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2011/12/27/article-2078733-0F47708B00000578-2_634x465.jpg

Is this MP's trailer? I can't see how he could have hit her in the head multiple times with a brick and there not be blood splatter everywhere. Did he place a bag on her head first before he bludgeoned her? I'm sure she screamed (i.e the night terrors) and if she was outside, then the neighbors would have heard. I'm at a loss here. I'm starting to think like someone else who posted that people do not snitch on others in this particular trailer park community.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2079419/Aliahna-Lemmon-murder-Killer-babysitter-Michael-Plumadore-poses-cameras.html

I don't think this is Plumadore/JE Lemmon home.

This is, and based on the side with the door, it isn't the one.
No shutters:

http://i296.photobucket.com/albums/mm166/crankycrankerson/Aliahna%20Lemmon%20%20-IN-/122711deathhouse1.jpg

not_my_kids
12-29-2011, 06:51 PM
Wouldn't be the first time. Remember the guy who killed Amber Dubios and Chelsea King? That was quick plea agreement.

He hasn't been formally charged yet has he? I don't think that they can offer him a plea deal before formal charges have been filed. They file charges, and then they try to offer the deal in order to spare the victims or get the trial over with faster, or to make the prosecutors conviction rate look better. IMO.

OneLove
12-29-2011, 06:52 PM
"He kind of kept to himself," Tulley said, adding James Lemmon had occasionally admitted to him that he would have to put Plumamdore "in his place."

Tulley said these infrequent conflicts stemmed from James Lemmon wanting to do too much

Wise Old Owl
12-29-2011, 06:55 PM
Wouldn't be the first time. Remember the guy who killed Amber Dubios and Chelsea King? That was quick plea agreement.

that was John Gardner. They already had him for the killing of Chelsea. The plea came in that they took the DP off the table in return for the location of Amber's body. They even took him on a lil field trip (unbeknownst to media and everyone) so he could show them exactly where she was.

I don't think there's any plea here yet. They pushed it back because there are going to be so so so many more charges. I'll bet the house on that.



JMHO

sherryk
12-29-2011, 06:55 PM
As a post previous.. in every lie there is a grain of truth...

It tears my heart that MP reported that Aliahna woke up in middle of the night and wanted her mother... I am sickened to think of this little angel crying for her mother while a horrific crime was being committed on her...

This is a tough one to handle.. very tough and I am very, very angry that any child is ever allowed to spend time .. much less the night with a male.. sex offender or not a grown man, single, no kids, no real home.. etc.. should never ever not in a million years have children staying with him. PERIOD !

OneLove
12-29-2011, 06:56 PM
"He kind of kept to himself," Tulley said, adding James Lemmon had occasionally admitted to him that he would have to put Plumamdore "in his place."

Tulley said these infrequent conflicts stemmed from James Lemmon wanting to do too much

Sorry for bumping, but off and on my phone is not showing the post I included with a quote. Is this bump showing my post I added to the quote? I don't understand this glitch.

Evan's Mom
12-29-2011, 06:57 PM
He hasn't been formally charged. That was to happen Friday. I'm glad that they have pushed the formal charges back so they can add to them next week.

http://www.herald-mail.com/news/hm-girl-brutally-slain-in-indiana-had-lived-in-hagerstown-20111229,0,2373850.story

The classmate in this article posted above lives in Ali's old town. Not where she was murdered. There are other children living in the pedo park though. Hope they get the children out!!!

How is that even legal?
Is it not a law that registered sex offenders can't live or work near children?

Donjeta
12-29-2011, 06:59 PM
I didn't notice this before:


They said the only unusual change in Plumadore's behavior was an increase in laundry. Shumaker said they washed his laundry for him, but on Friday he showed up with an extra load. Otherwise, he seemed fine.

Shumaker remembered Plumadore saying to him as he got into his truck: “I just want her back, I just want her back.”

http://www.news-sentinel.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20111228/NEWS/111229713

I wonder how much these guys know about what happened. If he was talking about wanting Aliahna back, what else did they talk about?

SunnyinMO
12-29-2011, 07:03 PM
I see the propane grill to the left of the door but what is in between the grill and the door? I hope it isn't a portable composter. :(


it is a smoker (we had one like it)...it is not a composter

AmandaReckonwith
12-29-2011, 07:04 PM
that was John Gardner. They already had him for the killing of Chelsea. The plea came in that they took the DP off the table in return for the location of Amber's body. They even took him on a lil field trip (unbeknownst to media and everyone) so he could show them exactly where she was.

I don't think there's any plea here yet. They pushed it back because there are going to be so so so many more charges. I'll bet the house on that.



JMHO

Just as an aside (and since the thread is slow at the moment) there are case archives for both Amber Dubois and Chelsea King on crankycrankerson. Link in my siggy.

OneLove
12-29-2011, 07:05 PM
"He kind of kept to himself," Tulley said, adding James Lemmon had occasionally admitted to him that he would have to put Plumamdore "in his place."

Tulley said these infrequent conflicts stemmed from James Lemmon wanting to do too much

Donjeta
12-29-2011, 07:06 PM
There seems to be disagreement who was the father figure


In July or August, Plumadore quit his job in North Carolina to return to Fort Wayne at the request of the Lemmon family, Snead said. Other residents confirmed the Lemmons at the time viewed Plumadore as a father figure who could help out as James Lemmon's health worsened.

http://www.journalgazette.net/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20111227/LOCAL07/111229617


Mike Tulley, a neighbor, said James Lemmon had a number of health issues including emphysema, and Plumadore had cared for the ailing man since August. Plumadore considered Lemmon a father figure, Tulley says.
http://www.journalgazette.net/article/20111228/LOCAL07/312289939/1002/LOCAL

Just a guess but maybe no one was very fatherly in the conventional sense in this set up.

jjenny
12-29-2011, 07:06 PM
that was John Gardner. They already had him for the killing of Chelsea. The plea came in that they took the DP off the table in return for the location of Amber's body. They even took him on a lil field trip (unbeknownst to media and everyone) so he could show them exactly where she was.

I don't think there's any plea here yet. They pushed it back because there are going to be so so so many more charges. I'll bet the house on that.



JMHO

I know that. My point, the plea deal for John Gardner was really quick. I sure wasn't expecting it that soon. If prosecution drops the death penalty it could be a quick plea deal here as well.

not_my_kids
12-29-2011, 07:08 PM
How is that even legal?
Is it not a law that registered sex offenders can't live or work near children?

I am not sure of each state's version of the law, but my father (RSO) has the restrictions that he may not live within a thousand feet of schools or day care centers, and he may not live within 500 feet of places that children congregate. He also cannot associate with known felons, and he cannot associate with persons under 18, or engage in any relationship with a custodial parent of a child under 18. In other words, he can live near kids, as long as he is not living near a place where they congregate or attend school, and as long as he has no contact with the children or families with children that live around him.

That is MI's interpretation of Megan's Law, but I am not sure what IN's interpretation is.

SuziQ
12-29-2011, 07:09 PM
http://www.wane.com/dpp/news/local/family-moves-aliahnas-belongings

"Aliahna Lemmon's stepfather, Allen Souders, tells The News-Sentinel ( http://bit.ly/t8ArVc (http://bit.ly/t8ArVc) ) that his wife couldn't bear to look at her daughter's possessions after what happened so he was moving them to a storage facility."

Don't know if this was posted yet, probably was....I'm always behind. I am from Fort Wayne. I moved away about 10 yrs ago but go up almost yearly as I still have family and friends up there. Anyways, I've heard from several close friends that the memorial was taken down by TS. This case is just beyond sad.

There is something way off with TS.

lauriej
12-29-2011, 07:09 PM
I didn't notice this before:



http://www.news-sentinel.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20111228/NEWS/111229713

I wonder how much these guys know about what happened. If he was talking about wanting Aliahna back, what else did they talk about?

--and what was this "extra load of laundry" that he had on friday?

--and when did he come by with it?

--b/c of the "mis-communication" between mikeP and tarah, she wasn't reported until later that NIGHT. ( 8:40 p.m. i believe.)

--if he brought the extra laundry over in the DAYTIME , after his cigar & "nap"-----why would he be saying then "i want her back". ??? ( she wasn't missing yet ).

--did he bring the other 2 little girls with him to do laundry---or leave them alone back @ RSO grandpa's trailer ??

Donjeta
12-29-2011, 07:10 PM
Sorry for bumping, but off and on my phone is not showing the post I included with a quote. Is this bump showing my post I added to the quote? I don't understand this glitch.

There should be an equal number of quote tags beginning and ending the quote and you have some extras here.

concentric
12-29-2011, 07:13 PM
There seems to be disagreement who was the father figure

In July or August, Plumadore quit his job in North Carolina to return to Fort Wayne at the request of the Lemmon family, Snead said. Other residents confirmed the Lemmons at the time viewed Plumadore as a father figure who could help out as James Lemmon's health worsened.

http://www.journalgazette.net/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20111227/LOCAL07/111229617


http://www.journalgazette.net/article/20111228/LOCAL07/312289939/1002/LOCAL

Just a guess but maybe no one was very fatherly in the conventional sense in this set up.
------------
If JL and Plumadore were so close, then what did they discuss in conversation, and what did they do for entertainment--for example, did they like to watch movies/videos, etc.?

OneLove
12-29-2011, 07:17 PM
Hard to imagine that extra load of laundry wasn't nasty beyond belief. At the least, he had to have put two and two together.

lauriej
12-29-2011, 07:17 PM
http://www.wane.com/dpp/news/local/family-moves-aliahnas-belongings

"Aliahna Lemmon's stepfather, Allen Souders, tells The News-Sentinel ( http://bit.ly/t8ArVc (http://bit.ly/t8ArVc) ) that his wife couldn't bear to look at her daughter's possessions after what happened so he was moving them to a storage facility."

Don't know if this was posted yet, probably was....I'm always behind. I am from Fort Wayne. I moved away about 10 yrs ago but go up almost yearly as I still have family and friends up there. Anyways, I've heard from several close friends that the memorial was taken down by TS. This case is just beyond sad.

--UN believable!

--1st they pack up her belongings and erase all traces of her in their trailer, and now to take the memorial , done by people who actually CARE down?

--your friends-----did they say that TS took this down herself?? any 1st hand info on how her temporary paralysis is ??

Dr.Fessel
12-29-2011, 07:21 PM
Just as an aside (and since the thread is slow at the moment) there are case archives for both Amber Dubois and Chelsea King on crankycrankerson. Link in my siggy.
Well Thank You Amanda!:rocker:

You are fantastic!!!:woohoo:

taagean
12-29-2011, 07:22 PM
http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2011/12/27/article-2078733-0F47708B00000578-2_634x465.jpg

Is this MP's trailer? I can't see how he could have hit her in the head multiple times with a brick and there not be blood splatter everywhere. Did he place a bag on her head first before he bludgeoned her? I'm sure she screamed (i.e the night terrors) and if she was outside, then the neighbors would have heard. I'm at a loss here. I'm starting to think like someone else who posted that people do not snitch on others in this particular trailer park community.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2079419/Aliahna-Lemmon-murder-Killer-babysitter-Michael-Plumadore-poses-cameras.html

I don't believe that is acutally MP's trailer. Somewhere I saw two pictures of his with the crime scene tape around and it was quite a bit older than that, with the old-
style curved roof and dark skirting at the bottom. I'll try and find them.

ETA: Don't have to search, I see the picture has already been posted - thanks!

OneLove
12-29-2011, 07:23 PM
If TS took her daughter's memorial down, I am guessing she was very resentful toward her own daughter. Maybe she even blames her for the mess she is in right now.

OneLove
12-29-2011, 07:25 PM
There should be an equal number of quote tags beginning and ending the quote and you have some extras here.

Thanks Donjeta. I don't know why my phone is doing this. I have not deleted any quote tags or added/done anything different than always. I may have to just quit including quotes. :(

CharlestonGal
12-29-2011, 07:26 PM
Somebody please, PLEASE tell me the other children have been removed from the care of this <unusual> mother. I can't bear to think of the remaining children being left in the care of this <unusual> family for one second longer.

NO child should have to grow up like this. Ever. It's unconscionable.

Bravo
12-29-2011, 07:27 PM
Thanks for the updates all. Glad to see they are taking their time with this case.

hoppy
12-29-2011, 07:27 PM
Let's not forget that this trailer is the one the grandfather died in just a couple of weeks before. Didnt mom bother to think THAT might freak the girls out???
Sorry but when I read the grandfathers obit and it said he died at home this all hit me and just another thing making me :furious:!!!

CharlestonGal
12-29-2011, 07:36 PM
Let's not forget that this trailer is the one the grandfather died in just a couple of weeks before. Didnt mom bother to think THAT might freak the girls out???
Sorry but when I read the grandfathers obit and it said he died at home this all hit me and just another thing making me :furious:!!!

I don't believe mom cares one way or the other how the children felt about anything. She's not that type, apparently.

menmo
12-29-2011, 07:39 PM
There is something way off with TS.


If TS took her daughter's memorial down, I am guessing she was very resentful toward her own daughter. Maybe she even blames her for the mess she is in right now.

I agree. I'm betting that in TS mind, and maybe more in that dysfunctional family, it's all Aliahana's fault, even though we know that it's not! :maddening:

Wondering if the family will move out of that TP now or if they'll stay and still try to continue to blend in. sigh

MOO

OneLove
12-29-2011, 07:40 PM
There is something way off with TS.

Amen to THAT!

not_my_kids
12-29-2011, 07:42 PM
The removal of the other kids is one of "those" things.
CPS has to prove clear and present danger in most situations before they can remove a child. Remember, we may question her decisions, but there are still guidelines to follow, and when you come right down to who actually killed this child, it wasn't either one of her parents.
The kids are no longer in contact with MP, he's in jail.
If the kids were molested or otherwise abused, it was not in the care of their parents directly.
CPS usually respects the rights of the parents to choose their own child care provider. Since he is not findable on any SO registry, it might be the opinion of the state that there was no way that TS could have known she was placing her children in mortal danger.
We can tell from her facebook postings that the kids do go to see doctor's, therefore there is little to no medical neglect, we don't know what the inside of her home looks like, but if it's not absolutely disgusting, there's no environmental neglect...

Unless the state can prove that the other children are at "significant or eminent risk of harm or death", they won't be going anywhere.

It's up to the worker that catches the case, essentially.

Kat
12-29-2011, 07:43 PM
I don't have any opinion about Mom removing Aliahna's belongings from the home so quickly because unfortunately given where I currently live and have lived for the past 10 years I've seen grief up close, way too up close, and way to personal. (military family).

Grief will make us do strange things sometimes and I've seen people act completely out of character. I've seen them do or say things that the rational mind or logical mind of those listening or viewing are completely stunned and taken aback.

Not taking up for her, I'm not accepting of her life choices that lead to Aliahna being in that home that night where she was killed. But just specifically her actions afterwards can be viewed as someone who might be functioning while in the state of grief.

As an aside, I've always said that we all know love, we experience that in a similar way as humans, we know hatred and anger and all the other emotions and have all experienced them so when we see someone expressing those emotions we can relate in some way most of the time (not talking about commiting criminal acts because of those emotions) but grief, it's a whole 'nother animal and each and every person experiences it differently. It's the only emotion I've seen that we do that.

Just my humble opinion and ramblings.

jjenny
12-29-2011, 07:48 PM
They still expect to file formal charges tomorrow. He doesn't have to go to court but the charges are going to be filed tomorrow.
"Michael Plumadore, 39, is expected to remain in his jail cell when the formal charges are filed, said Danielle Edenfield, the Allen County prosecutor's office chief investigator. A warrant listing the charges will be read to him, she said."
http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/formal-charges-expected-filed-man-15256137#.Tvzt0lbZWSo

menmo
12-29-2011, 07:48 PM
Can you imagine being linked to this mess, by genetics, or married into it? I feel for all the children, the ones who were kin to Aliahana, the ones that mom's boyfriends and husbands brought in, and those who were friends with this precious child.

Some of this family simply may have not chosen to share with others that they had a convicted sex offender in their family, I can't help but feel for them. Especially the children.

MOO

CharlestonGal
12-29-2011, 07:48 PM
If TS took her daughter's memorial down, I am guessing she was very resentful toward her own daughter. Maybe she even blames her for the mess she is in right now.

Perhaps. Or, perhaps she prefer that all that attention come her way instead - after all, she is "paralyzed" from all that she has endured the past week. What about HER, ya know? She's the one all suffering and paralyzed. People should be paying attention to HER at this awful time; why is all the attention going to a memorial for her murdered and dismembered daughter? It just ain't right, I tell ya.:furious:

Dee10
12-29-2011, 07:50 PM
I agree. I'm betting that in TS mind, and maybe more in that dysfunctional family, it's all Aliahana's fault, even though we know that it's not! . :maddening:

Wondering if the family will move out of that TP now or if they'll stay and still try to continue to blend in. sigh

MOO

I just can't get over that they are still living 2 doors down from the trailer of unspeakable horrors! Maybe the parents don't care, but my God it must be hard for the kids, but it is more important to get rid of anything to do (supposedly) of Aliahana's? I am really dreading to hear what is going to come next to the point of pitch-forks are swirling in my mind & I don't like that, but I am feeling so frustrated & scared for the other children. :banghead:

OneLove
12-29-2011, 07:54 PM
Perhaps. Or, perhaps she prefer that all that attention come her way instead - after all, she is "paralyzed" from all that she has endured the past week. What about HER, ya know? She's the one all suffering and paralyzed. People should be paying attention to HER at this awful time; why is all the attention going to a memorial for her murdered and dismembered daughter? It just ain't right, I tell ya.:furious:

:(. :(. :(

madge
12-29-2011, 07:55 PM
Unless the state can prove that the other children are at "significant or eminent risk of harm or death", they won't be going anywhere.



I would think the "environment" OF RSO's in the are is significant risk.

This woman states she is too "ill" to take care of her kids, she says she is paralyzaed.

How she gonna take care of them from a wheelchair, she said she couldn't take care of them while she had the flu but there is proof of how she was spending her time. Playing games online and God only knows what her computer would show if the LE ever got a chance to look at it. IMHO she probably was doing more than gaming.

I used to play MW heavily and if you wanted to have more than "game" time it was easy, open up your chat, the peope who "play" like to do more than play games if you are open to it.

OneLove
12-29-2011, 07:56 PM
I just can't get over that they are still living 2 doors down from the trailer of unspeakable horrors! Maybe the parents don't care, but my God it must be hard for the kids, but it is more important to get rid of anything to do (supposedly) of Aliahana's. I am really dreading to hear what is going to come next to the point of pitch-forks are swirling in my mind & I don't like that, but I am feeling so frustrated & scared for the other children. :banghead:

Uh, yeah, and if there is ANYTHING that ANYONE should not want to have to look at ever again, it should be that trailer. Oh, and the face of MP.

smittles
12-29-2011, 07:57 PM
--UN believable!

--1st they pack up her belongings and erase all traces of her in their trailer, and now to take the memorial , done by people who actually CARE down?

--your friends-----did they say that TS took this down herself?? any 1st hand info on how her temporary paralysis is ??

Sorry I am just responding to this. Yes, they said she took it down with her husband. Now, I don't know how they would know for sure. But several friends said it has been taken down and are upset because they left stuff there.

Jacie Estes
12-29-2011, 07:59 PM
Did the tralier belong to the family? Because the grandmother said the little girl wanted to sleep in the chair that her grandfather died in, and she was wearing the outfit she wore when she went to his funeral, right?

BBM This is one of the things I have wondered. Did Aliahna's family move there so that they could move into the trailer, a 'possession is 9/10ths of the law' thing? Is there a will from gpa or did they think that they would just take over the house? By letting the girls go there, they were reminding MP that it was their trailer and not his? I hope it isn't a case of wanting a trailer so they wouldn't have to pay rent, other than lot rent.

Do we know how long Aliahna's family was in the trailer park? Perhaps they got an organization or agency to rent the other trailer for them as a 'family hardship' case.

OneLove
12-29-2011, 08:01 PM
Sorry I am just responding to this. Yes, they said she took it down with her husband. Now, I don't know how they would know for sure. But several friends said it has been taken down and are upset because they left stuff there.

Incredible.

Is it possible that they are STILL spreading out into the extra space the g'pa's trailer gave them? I would have expected it to be sealed off.

smittles
12-29-2011, 08:12 PM
Incredible.

Is it possible that they are STILL spreading out into the extra space the g'pa's trailer gave them? I would have expected it to be sealed off.

Not sure what the reason is. Some are saying it's because it upset her (TS) too much to see Ali's stuff and the memorial. I am trying to get one of my friends to drive by and take a picture to prove to me that the memorial was removed. I wonder if it rained or snowed up there and maybe that is why it was removed. IDK. Everyting about the actions of those involved in this have me scratching my head.

Adrienne37
12-29-2011, 08:13 PM
Did I read correctly that the family took down the memorial?

OneLove
12-29-2011, 08:14 PM
I think Billie Dunn has her beat so far because we KNOW that Billie was into horror as erotica, did illegal drugs, neglected her children, and put her worthless scumbag boy toy ahead of her own children.

But we don't know everything there is to know yet in this case. :(

GobBluth
12-29-2011, 08:17 PM
They still expect to file formal charges tomorrow. He doesn't have to go to court but the charges are going to be filed tomorrow.
"Michael Plumadore, 39, is expected to remain in his jail cell when the formal charges are filed, said Danielle Edenfield, the Allen County prosecutor's office chief investigator. A warrant listing the charges will be read to him, she said."
http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/formal-charges-expected-filed-man-15256137#.Tvzt0lbZWSo

I wonder if this is due to death threats by the public.

In looking at the Allen County Sheriff's activity log last night, I noticed a 911 call hang-up and a report of telephone threats being received at residences in Pedo Park, possibly TS's or MP's (they don't list the whole address in the log.)

Kat
12-29-2011, 08:18 PM
Thread is going offtopic enough that a mod might come by and either remove posts or close the thread down. Just a heads up. I'm not a mod and I don't want to be one. But the first post says Mom is a victim and we are getting off the topic of Aliahna's murder by discussing Mom's actions after....Not chastising anyone just redirecting :D So please don't get mad!

not_my_kids
12-29-2011, 08:24 PM
I would think the "environment" OF RSO's in the are is significant risk.

This woman states she is too "ill" to take care of her kids, she says she is paralyzaed.

How she gonna take care of them from a wheelchair, she said she couldn't take care of them while she had the flu but there is proof of how she was spending her time. Playing games online and God only knows what her computer would show if the LE ever got a chance to look at it. IMHO she probably was doing more than gaming.

I used to play MW heavily and if you wanted to have more than "game" time it was easy, open up your chat, the peope who "play" like to do more than play games if you are open to it.

Being low income and therefore residing in a low income and RSO infested area is not imminent risk of harm. Not even close.

The same with being paralyzed. They do not remove kids from a home because the mother is disabled, especially when there is another parent in the home.

Hey, don't get me wrong, don't think I'm advocating for the mother, or that I think she should have the right to care for minor children, because I'm not and I don't. I'm just pointing out that there are standards to be met, and they might not be met here. I don't want her to retain custody of the kids, there were rumors that they had been removed, and honestly, I hope it's true.

twall
12-29-2011, 08:25 PM
Plumadore's court appearance delayed

Allen County Prosecutor's Office said formal charges will still be filed Friday.

Jeremy Tinkle with the Allen County Sheriff’s Department said Plumadore will not be set free.

The county has 72 hours to file formal charges. When they are filed Friday, a warrant will be sent to the jail and read to Plumadore, where he will continue to be detained.

Plumadore is expected to be in court by Wednesday at the latest.

http://www.wane.com/dpp/news/local/plumadores-initial-hearing-delayed

Cubby
12-29-2011, 08:30 PM
It's good that DM is going to Aliahna's funeral; he is her daddy and he should be there. Despite any past history or problems, her funeral is the place where all of that should be put away, out of respect for her. I truly hope it doesn't turn into one of those 'youtube' moments.



I'm glad he is going. I went through his MS photo's last night and he still had belly pics up from when TS was expecting Aliahna. Clearly he cared about his daughter and his daughters mother if he still had pictures of both on his MS page. If there was any animosity surrounding their break up I doubt he would have kept such precious pictures when he and T were expecting Aliahna.

I don't think he had any idea his childs mother and the thing she lives with weren't properly caring for his daughter.

JMO

Cubby
12-29-2011, 08:40 PM
There seems to be disagreement who was the father figure


http://www.journalgazette.net/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20111227/LOCAL07/111229617


http://www.journalgazette.net/article/20111228/LOCAL07/312289939/1002/LOCAL

Just a guess but maybe no one was very fatherly in the conventional sense in this set up.


In the first link, I think they are talking about Tarah viewing Pulmadore as a father figure (good old "uncle Mike") and in the second Pulmadore viewing grandpa Lemmon as a father figure. At least that is how I interpreted the articles.

jmo

Cubby
12-29-2011, 08:42 PM
--UN believable!

--1st they pack up her belongings and erase all traces of her in their trailer, and now to take the memorial , done by people who actually CARE down?

--your friends-----did they say that TS took this down herself?? any 1st hand info on how her temporary paralysis is ??


She's apparently planning and staying put. If she were moving she would have left that memorial up.

I sure hope CPS doesn't allow those minor children that were in the care of TS and AS back in that trailer park if TS and AS plan to stay firmly planted there.

JMO

passionflower
12-29-2011, 08:42 PM
This horrible story actually had 1/2 page of the Pittsburgh Post Gazette page 5A.
I loved the way it was worded and described grandpa.
I wish I could bring it here. I read it while waiting on my car to get serviced.

Cubby
12-29-2011, 08:44 PM
If TS took her daughter's memorial down, I am guessing she was very resentful toward her own daughter. Maybe she even blames her for the mess she is in right now.



That's a thought I hadn't considered. Though, I think you're right. :(

GobBluth
12-29-2011, 08:49 PM
I'm glad he is going. I went through his MS photo's last night and he still had belly pics up from when TS was expecting Aliahna. Clearly he cared about his daughter and his daughters mother if he still had pictures of both on his MS page. If there was any animosity surrounding their break up I doubt he would have kept such precious pictures when he and T were expecting Aliahna.

I don't think he had any idea his childs mother and the thing she lives with weren't properly caring for his daughter.

JMO

The "belly pics" that I saw of the bio dad (DM) on his myspace were of his current wife/baby mama. And, I think those pics were after she had his second child.

The pics of the stepmom in Iowa w/Ali a few years back were very sweet. You could see the smile start to spread in Ali's face as her stepmom took silly time-lapse photos, then they started laughing. What an adorable little girl, and a beautiful captured moment for the father/stepmom in Iowa.

So sad and senseless, all of this.

Darcyline
12-29-2011, 08:57 PM
Was it confirmed that Aliahna was sexually abused two different times before in a previous state and that was the cause of her PTSD?

matou
12-29-2011, 08:59 PM
According to the mother of a school friend, Aliahna went to stay with MP on the Tuesday. This is not a whole week as has been reported. So he has her over on Tuesday and then Wednesday night he becomes the bogeyman?????

Mckee's daughter, A, says Aliahna told her about her winter break plans. "She told me she was going to a friend's house the last day of school before Christmas break."

http://www.indianasnewscenter.com/home/Missing-Juvenile-136180558.html

gitana1
12-29-2011, 09:03 PM
http://www.wane.com/dpp/news/local/family-moves-aliahnas-belongings

"Aliahna Lemmon's stepfather, Allen Souders, tells The News-Sentinel ( http://bit.ly/t8ArVc (http://bit.ly/t8ArVc) ) that his wife couldn't bear to look at her daughter's possessions after what happened so he was moving them to a storage facility."

Don't know if this was posted yet, probably was....I'm always behind. I am from Fort Wayne. I moved away about 10 yrs ago but go up almost yearly as I still have family and friends up there. Anyways, I've heard from several close friends that the memorial was taken down by TS. This case is just beyond sad.


So the family boxed up all of Ali's stuff to take to a storage facility? I guess the paralysis is over. Plus, I'd bet that is not all they are packing...probably gearing up for yet another move. JMO.

I find it a bit odd that all of her stuff was boxed up so quickly...especially, when the mom has all of these "health issues"

When my dad died, I could not bear to look at his things at first, especially not photos of him. I kept away from all of that. It was like a punch in the gut to see his face in a photo.

But, nothing was removed. In fact, 3 years later, I have refused to allow my mom to paint his den, even though she has painted everything else in the house. My mom eventually did give away some of his clothes to the poor, but most if it, I insisted be kept. I organized all his papers, work stuff, his writings, the most mundane things. They are all labeled and boxed and I can't bear to get rid of even the unimportant stuff.

Now I look at his photos every day and talk to him, smile at him, tell him I love him.

Perhaps the mother can't bear it right now. I do understand that. However, to want to remove it all, well, many people do do that. (My mom wanted to burn down the house when my dad died). Still, it seems odd. But maybe everything reminding her of her daughter acts like a monstrously huge, accusing finger, pointing right at her, reminding her that she is the person who gave her child to the demon who murdered and dismembered her.

Can you imagine that feeling?

smittles
12-29-2011, 09:05 PM
With all this talk about living amongst RSO's I would like to share a little tidbit. We joined lifelock because we've had some issuses with ppl getting ahold of our banking acount infor and just wanted to make sure nothing else happens with our credit or accounts. Anyways, last month I got a notification from them saying that a RSO had moved into my zip code. I had no idea life lock did that also.

On another note. When we bought our house 5 yrs ago, I checked with Watchdog site to make sure there wasn't any RSO's in this neighborhood and there were none. I was pleasantly surprised that there weren't in surrounding neighborhoods either. About 1 1/2 yrs ago I was out walking with my kids and 1 street over I see a sign in this front yard that read, "Person at this residences is a RSO. Has been convicted or a crime against a minor". It is a huge sign, not that it matters. I am disgusted that he lives so close and it seems he likes girls my daughters age. Of course, I don't let her walk to school or her friends house because of it. We live in a very nice neighborhood, beautiful homes, parks, schools. They live everywhere,not just dumpy trailer parks.

GobBluth
12-29-2011, 09:07 PM
Was it confirmed that Aliahna was sexually abused two different times before in a previous state and that was the cause of her PTSD?

IIRC, this info was given by the step-grandpa, DS, to the media. I don't think anyone has discovered who these 2 people are, or confirmed any of this. I do know that bio-dad is not a RSO in Iowa, or anywhere that I can find.

ETA: When DS released this info, he added that these two people were arrested.

tlcya
12-29-2011, 09:14 PM
As to the abuse by two men prior

I dont think he abuse was confirmed. At this point i think that is still speculation that the type of abuse was sexual in natue. I think it likely was but dont think that is a confirmed fact yet

twall
12-29-2011, 09:20 PM
I am from Fort Wayne and I can honestly say people up there are just like that. I am in Dallas/Fort Worth area now and although people here are very nice, I don't get the sense of community here that I did there. Don't get me wrong, I LOVE DFW. When my car would break down and leave me on the side of the road up there, I would have 5-10 cars stop and want to help. Here, I'm lucky if one person pulls over.

Are you inferring Allen Co. Sheriff Ken Fries & deputies gave $$ to DM to come to Indiana? If so, that is not the case. The article is referring to the sheriff in Iowa.

And yes, the kindness here is called Hoosier Hospitality. I am proud to be a part of it.

twall
12-29-2011, 09:26 PM
I don't think this is Plumadore/JE Lemmon home.

This is, and based on the side with the door, it isn't the one.
No shutters:

http://i296.photobucket.com/albums/mm166/crankycrankerson/Aliahna%20Lemmon%20%20-IN-/122711deathhouse1.jpg

My husband just looked at this photo and said the wheelchair ramp is worth more $$ than the trailer. :floorlaugh:

smittles
12-29-2011, 09:29 PM
Are you inferring Allen Co. Sheriff Ken Fries & deputies gave $$ to DM to come to Indiana? If so, that is not the case. The article is referring to the sheriff in Iowa.

And yes, the kindness here is called Hoosier Hospitality. I am proud to be a part of it.

Twall, ugh, I read the article wrong. I thought it said the Fries did. Either way....it is such a kind gesture. I miss the Hoosier Hospitality but not the winters. It was almost 70 here today!

hoppy
12-29-2011, 09:39 PM
Another precious little girl who lives in Pedo Park (http://s296.photobucket.com/albums/mm166/crankycrankerson/Aliahna%20Lemmon%20%20-IN-/?action=view&current=northway.jpg#!oZZ162QQcurrentZZhttp%3A%2F% 2Fs296.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fmm166%2Fcrankycr ankerson%2FAliahna%2520Lemmon%2520%2520-IN-%2F%3Faction%3Dview%26current%3D122611kathleenamel ia.jpg)

I was going through this time link that was posted (well done btw!) and I can't get this other little girls' face out of my head - it's the neighbors who knew ali -- and it's breaking my heart that THIS little girl is gonna be continuing to live in this trailer park! Can you IMAGINE how terrifying it must be to ANY child to live there right now?? They're friend was not only MURDERED but cut up and mutilated.......how absolutely horrible this must be for them.

Jacie Estes
12-29-2011, 09:41 PM
My husband just looked at this photo and said the wheelchair ramp is worth more $$ than the trailer. :floorlaugh:

IKR :D

At least MP had satellite/Dish TV. :mad:

passionflower
12-29-2011, 09:47 PM
Do we have a pic of where little Ali lived?

Jacie Estes
12-29-2011, 09:47 PM
The look on this FBI agent's face says a lot. Those poor people who had to go in there to investigate with Aliahna's remains in there. This isn't gpa's house but it is the day she was discovered.

http://s296.photobucket.com/albums/mm166/crankycrankerson/Aliahna%20Lemmon%20%20-IN-/?action=view&current=122611kathleenamelia.jpg#!oZZ164QQcurrentZ Zhttp%3A%2F%2Fs296.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fmm16 6%2Fcrankycrankerson%2FAliahna%2520Lemmon%2520%252 0-IN-%2F%3Faction%3Dview%26current%3D122611s22.jpg

passionflower
12-29-2011, 09:56 PM
The look on this FBI agent's face says a lot. Those poor people who had to go in there to investigate with Aliahna's remains in there. This isn't gpa's house but it is the day she was discovered.

http://s296.photobucket.com/albums/mm166/crankycrankerson/Aliahna%20Lemmon%20%20-IN-/?action=view&current=122611kathleenamelia.jpg#!oZZ164QQcurrentZ Zhttp%3A%2F%2Fs296.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fmm16 6%2Fcrankycrankerson%2FAliahna%2520Lemmon%2520%252 0-IN-%2F%3Faction%3Dview%26current%3D122611s22.jpg

Bless their hearts, the hardest job is handling a little ones remains.
Kudos to all that deal with this horror.

passionflower
12-29-2011, 09:58 PM
IKR :D

At least MP had satellite/Dish TV. :mad:

direct TV and internet runs me about $80 a month at camp....
where does he get the money???

sherryk
12-29-2011, 10:00 PM
As to the abuse by two men prior

I dont think he abuse was confirmed. At this point i think that is still speculation that the type of abuse was sexual in natue. I think it likely was but dont think that is a confirmed fact yet
********

I can tell you that sexual abuse does not really need to be "confirmed and very often of the time it is not "confirmed" as in the sence that their is evidence.. the crimes of sexual abuse on the news.. yes they are proven due to stranger abduction etc.. but that is normally when it goes to the level of extreme horrific acts to the child and/or murder... in rare cases a life is spared.

ON THE OTHER HAND.. sexual molestation by a family friend/aquaintence/parent/step parent/coach/mentor/older sibling.. those types of sexual abuse is very RARE to have confirmed.. due to what... DUE TO IT IS A DIRTY SECRET THAT THE PERPATRATOR HAS GROOMED THE CHILD INTO KEEPING THEIR MOUTH SHUT... when the child.. when the brave speak up.. it is down to their word against their word... many prosecutors know this happened to the child, they believe the child, they see the mental signs of PTSD,

The two prior men most likley will never be prosecuted... you have a little girl with PSTD, ADHD, hearing issues, vision issues.. scared and not the best witness.. she admitt she is scared of police..

State Attorney will not prosecute unless air tight case.. for instance.. if the forensic interview (meaning the interview by child specialist in finding out fact of the abuse wtihout asking or pushing for answers) if there are any inconsistant statements.. which by kids there could be at time.. their memory releases slowly the abuse.. it is not alll just blurted out at once... the manner in which the child is questioned and how many times they can be questioned is limited in each state to PROTECT the child from too many interviews and trauma from it... so lets just say that somewhere in the justice system that I do believe from my own experience IS TRYING TO HELP THE CHILDREN... but INCEST and FAMILY sexual abuse, abuse from a friend of the family.. there isnt a lot to go on.. a he said she said... sad but true.. I am familiar with this due to my own child being molested.. and her brother was a witness... that didnt matter to state attorney and detectives.. .basically needed a confession from the person... there was no acutal intercourse.. however the slightest penetration is considered sexual battery and child under 11.. felony and punishable by life up to death.... so the prosecutors need to have air tight case.... so these sneaky men and/or women they know this.. they molest, scare, threaten, make the child trust him, appear to be a good loving person, gain trust then abuse it.

My story is with a fathers visitation... I had no clue what so ever what was going on.. in this case showers together, sleeping in same bed, checking my daughters private parts. My little one told me 4 years ago and it has been a constant battle ever since.. this man still shows his face at events he know she will be at to intimadate us.. I have and in process of his parerental rights terminated... not an easy thing to do.... recommended supervised visitation... NO WAY.. I will take my chances and be in contempt of court because there is no way.. over my dead body will he ever touch or see my children again... no i am not low income trash.. well educated, mother, kids with straight A's, private schools, sports, friends.. but there are monsters in all shapes and forms.. can not trust even a father with kids...

I know this is a long post.. but molestation goes on so much.. very very rarely the children speak up.. they are basically brain washed NOT to speak up... can u imagine being a child and being molested and some pervert in your ear telling you this is our secret and if anyone knows somthing real bad could happen to mommy.... the fear the kid lives with day in and out....

THERE HAS GOT TO BE A CAMPAIGN TO MAKE IT KNOWN, HIT THE MEDIA, TALK AND MAKE EVEN THE POOREST EXCUSES OF MOTHERS KNOW WHAT TO LOOK FOR.. WHAT IS NORMAL, WHAT IS NOT.. TELL YOUR KIDS IT IS OK TO ALWAYS GO WITH GUT FEELING... NEVER BE ASHAMED TO TELL YOUR MOMMY NO MATTER WHAT....



Thank God my daughter is in therapy each week.. a really good therapist.. I am there to hold her at night when she cries for me, when she says no no no... I am there for her when she clings to me when she see's a man who looks like her father.. i am there for her when she says mommy I am scared he is gonna kill me and you cause i told on him.. i am there for her when she looks in mirror and says she is ugly.. i am there.. i am there .. i am there...
The person I am mad at... no not me.. it is not my fault . .it is HIS fault.. to take my trust, my babies and DEMAND visitation.. refuse to let me speak to my kids when they were there... 4 years and we are doing good.. the earlier these things are brought out the percentage of healing qoes up quite a bit.. however PSTD will exist most likley for many many years to come.. incidentally this entire experience has also given me nightmares on a nightly basis, PSTD on my part also... this has turned my life upside down... but the good news..MY DAUGHTER WAS BRAVE.. SHE DID IT.. CONGRATS TO HER FOR SPEAKING UP AND DETERMINATION TO STOP THE MONSTER FROM GETTING FURTHER THAN HE DID..SO TO MY GIRL LOVE YOU

*MEANT IN ABOVE PARAGRAPH.. HE demamded visitation even though the kids did NOT want to go... he would constantly say he will envoke his parental rights..... no more of that... he may rot in hell before he ever see's MY kids again

Cher352
12-29-2011, 10:14 PM
When my dad died, I could not bear to look at his things at first, especially not photos of him. I kept away from all of that. It was like a punch in the gut to see his face in a photo.

But, nothing was removed. In fact, 3 years later, I have refused to allow my mom to paint his den, even though she has painted everything else in the house. My mom eventually did give away some of his clothes to the poor, but most if it, I insisted be kept. I organized all his papers, work stuff, his writings, the most mundane things. They are all labeled and boxed and I can't bear to get rid of even the unimportant stuff.

Now I look at his photos every day and talk to him, smile at him, tell him I love him.

Perhaps the mother can't bear it right now. I do understand that. However, to want to remove it all, well, many people do do that. (My mom wanted to burn down the house when my dad died). Still, it seems odd. But maybe everything reminding her of her daughter acts like a monstrously huge, accusing finger, pointing right at her, reminding her that she is the person who gave her child to the demon who murdered and dismembered her.

Can you imagine that feeling?

Yes I can.

My father in-law died a few months back. We arrived in town the night before the funeral. When I asked his wife of 57 yrs if she had a belt her son could borrow as he forgot his she replied she had already given all his stuff away. She was a basket case and yes we saw the cleaned out closets, she had spent all her time since his death cleaning out all his stuff.

Cher352
12-29-2011, 10:19 PM
Was it confirmed that Aliahna was sexually abused two different times before in a previous state and that was the cause of her PTSD?

Not sure, last I saw here was that it had not be confirmed to be "sexual" as of yet just abuse of some type.

Filly
12-29-2011, 10:23 PM
They live everywhere,not just dumpy trailer parks.

Amen.

All RSO's do not comply.

Some don't get convicted.

Some were convicted prior to the registry going into effect.

Some have not offended yet.

They have vehicles and two feet so they can go visit their friend two blocks down or across town.

Each State is different. People are often surprised that in some States depending on their parole RSO's are allowed to use the internet.

Since we're on them though the convicted who speak with reporters. That Shumaker guy lived in three different places in Florida prior to moving to Indiana. Plumadore lived in Florida. Did they know eachother fromd down there?:waitasec:

jjenny
12-29-2011, 10:25 PM
With all this talk about living amongst RSO's I would like to share a little tidbit. We joined lifelock because we've had some issuses with ppl getting ahold of our banking acount infor and just wanted to make sure nothing else happens with our credit or accounts. Anyways, last month I got a notification from them saying that a RSO had moved into my zip code. I had no idea life lock did that also.

On another note. When we bought our house 5 yrs ago, I checked with Watchdog site to make sure there wasn't any RSO's in this neighborhood and there were none. I was pleasantly surprised that there weren't in surrounding neighborhoods either. About 1 1/2 yrs ago I was out walking with my kids and 1 street over I see a sign in this front yard that read, "Person at this residences is a RSO. Has been convicted or a crime against a minor". It is a huge sign, not that it matters. I am disgusted that he lives so close and it seems he likes girls my daughters age. Of course, I don't let her walk to school or her friends house because of it. We live in a very nice neighborhood, beautiful homes, parks, schools. They live everywhere,not just dumpy trailer parks.

They might live everywhere but that trailer park had them at a very high concentration compared to the rest of the state:
"In other words, three-fifths of the occupied units house a registered sex offender. That's an extraordinary concentration in Indiana, which has only 137 registered sex offenders per 100,000 population — the third-lowest ratio among all 50 states, according to data compiled by the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children."
http://usnews.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2011/12/27/9747130-scene-of-9-year-old-girls-killing-a-haven-for-sex-offenders

neese
12-29-2011, 10:25 PM
http://www.childwelfare.gov/can/statistics/stat_sexAbuse.cfm

don't know if this link will post but it's childwelfare.gov

octobermoon
12-29-2011, 10:28 PM
The only word we have of the two other abuses is the step-grandpa. Who said it/they were caught, but he had no other details. I call BS on the caught and charged by police. I think (IMO<JMO) this family tells lies to cover up. ALL MY SPECULATION, IMO

ETA

Sorry if that sounds harsh. But it seems to me the stories change as each day passes.

neese
12-29-2011, 10:31 PM
O/T My town's population is approx. 305,000. Just checked RSO's and found this info. Not sure if this is good or bad. I suck at math.

According to our research of the Virginia and other state lists there were 153 registered sex offenders living in Roanoke in August 2011.
The ratio of number of residents in Roanoke to the number of sex offenders is 618 to 1.

Read more: http://www.city-data.com/so/so-Roanoke-Virginia.html#ixzz1hytuyJoh

Helenstreet
12-29-2011, 10:33 PM
I know how you feel, I read an article for class a little while ago, about a homeless man that tried to stop a pursesnatcher. The thug stabbed him four times, and he bled to death on the sidewalk because the people walking by just stepped over him...there were at least a dozen witnesses to the stabbing and many more that walked past without even looking at him.

And I remember wondering if it happened in my city because that's how people are here.

Hmmm.... sounds like where I grew up in Michigan. I am happy to say that where I live now--Portland, Oregon--people are extremely friendly and helpful.

FrayedKnot
12-29-2011, 10:37 PM
I see the propane grill to the left of the door but what is in between the grill and the door? I hope it isn't a portable composter. :(

Sorry if this has been answered- I am still catching up. I believe it is a smoker. For smoking meats.

simlyme
12-29-2011, 10:43 PM
From that article, I'm assuming the friend either lives in the trailer park or very close to it since the girls rode bikes after school together.
What I'd like to know is, just how many kids live that close all of those RSOs in the trailer park?

Jumping in on this one,
http://www.herald-mail.com/news/hm-girl-brutally-slain-in-indiana-had-lived-in-hagerstown-20111229,0,2373850.story
Article says.
"Aliahna was a student at Winter Street school from January to June 2011, said Richard Wright, a spokesman for Washington County Public Schools."
This is a town, Hagerstown Maryland.

I lived about 100 yards from this school some years back, It is one of the worse "hoods" anyone can live in. It took us 18 months to sell our house at a very "low" selling price.
I cannot figure out why they lived there for 6 months. I have tried tracing all names but come up empty handed.Also, T worked in Chambersburg Penn. at the time and that is about a 30 mile drive one way from Hagerstown, perhaps she carpooled? I cant see her driving all that way to work at a rental store.
Im dying to know about this 6 month situation, this year :waitasec:

Dee10
12-29-2011, 10:43 PM
They might live everywhere but that trailer park had them at a very high concentration compared to the rest of the state:
"In other words, three-fifths of the occupied units house a registered sex offender. That's an extraordinary concentration in Indiana, which has only 137 registered sex offenders per 100,000 population — the third-lowest ratio among all 50 states, according to data compiled by the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children."
http://usnews.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2011/12/27/9747130-scene-of-9-year-old-girls-killing-a-haven-for-sex-offenders

I was thinking about this last night & wondered WHY & what factors are at play that made this happen??

A huge problem for them is once you are labelled on the RSO list, your jobs are limited. There are so many places that check these days (even some McDonalds I have heard ck). So they tend to have fewer & lower job opportunities, so of course they will go to the poor area of town. Warmer parts of the country, where it is cheaper to live like Florida for example that have a high average. But...we are talking about the ones who HAVE been caught, prosecuted & who MADE the list.

octobermoon
12-29-2011, 10:44 PM
I forget who said earlier on the threads, but the constant moving from town to town, state to state... These children had no chance to bond with trusted adults outside of family and so-called friends of the family. HINKY IMO

Filly
12-29-2011, 10:48 PM
O/T My town's population is approx. 305,000. Just checked RSO's and found this info. Not sure if this is good or bad. I suck at math.

According to our research of the Virginia and other state lists there were 153 registered sex offenders living in Roanoke in August 2011.
The ratio of number of residents in Roanoke to the number of sex offenders is 618 to 1.

Read more: http://www.city-data.com/so/so-Roanoke-Virginia.html#ixzz1hytuyJoh

Math? Can't do it either. Roanoke is lovely.:)

Here's my math. At least when my child was little. Everybody is a flippin pedophile. The whole block. If they ain't then all the shifty folks that visit them are. That's how it added up to me. If they weren't yet and were gonna offend my kid wasn't being the one they hurt.

Figure in all the non compliant ones and people in the country without documentation who may have offended in another country and beat it out of there and live in the basement of my neighbors I don't do math.

We had a beautiful little girl murdered in Philly years ago. A guy from Honduras murdered her. Took her right from her own block with her sister there. The Detectives never gave up. Thanks to Arizona and them taking DNA for even bad check writing they found their match. Where is that guy? Nobody knows???????????? He certainly didn't live in a Philly zipcode. Drifter.

IHAVENOCLUE
12-29-2011, 10:54 PM
Why/when did the SO grandfather and MP summon TS and children to help? Apparently for four years SO grandfather and MP did OK?

Did TS want to Butter up her dad so that she could get inheritance money?
Just an idea.
:waitasec:

octobermoon
12-29-2011, 10:55 PM
Math? Can't do it either. Roanoke is lovely.:)

Here's my math. At least when my child was little. Everybody is a flippin pedophile. The whole block. If they ain't then all the shifty folks that visit them are. That's how it added up to me. If they weren't yet and were gonna offend my kid wasn't being the one they hurt.

Figure in all the non compliant ones and people in the country without documentation who may have offended in another country and beat it out of there and live in the basement of my neighbors I don't do math.

We had a beautiful little girl murdered in Philly years ago. A guy from Honduras murdered her. Took her right from her own block with her sister there. The Detectives never gave up. Thanks to Arizona and them taking DNA for even bad check writing they found their match. Where is that guy? Nobody knows???????????? He certainly didn't live in a Philly zipcode. Drifter.

Filly
I so agree and felt/feel the same. As a survivor I am jaded, but too bad. And I let anyone who felt slighted know why I did what I did to protect my boy. None objected, none complained. none. And not a damn one would expect less for their own children. That is how it should be. :(

Cubby
12-29-2011, 11:00 PM
The only word we have of the two other abuses is the step-grandpa. Who said it/they were caught, but he had no other details. I call BS on the caught and charged by police. I think (IMO<JMO) this family tells lies to cover up. ALL MY SPECULATION, IMO

ETA

Sorry if that sounds harsh. But it seems to me the stories change as each day passes.


Good point. Step grandpa may have been told the two offenders were caught and these incidents were reported to police, but his being told is no confirmation. Not with the information we've learnt about this family.

I hope LE confirms alleged previous abuse was actually reported.

I almost can't read much more about this case, because, imo, the actions, choices and decisions leading up to Aliahna's murder seem about as logical to me as leaving a toddler in the middle of a 6 lane hwy with traffic moving at 70 mph. It's just mind boggling. All I can do now is pray Aliahna gets justice and her siblings are placed where they will not be subjected to further potential abuse.

JMO

FrayedKnot
12-29-2011, 11:01 PM
I forget who said earlier on the threads, but the constant moving from town to town, state to state... These children had no chance to bond with trusted adults outside of family and so-called friends of the family. HINKY IMO

If I am not mistaken, it is a common MO is any type of domestic abuse, whether it be spousal, child, or domestic sexual abuse, to keep the victims isolated. Make sure they do not form bonds with schoolmates, neighbors.

If people get too close, they might begin to ask questions.

LydiaDeetz
12-29-2011, 11:02 PM
This horrible story actually had 1/2 page of the Pittsburgh Post Gazette page 5A.
I loved the way it was worded and described grandpa.
I wish I could bring it here. I read it while waiting on my car to get serviced.

Is this the one? Even if not, I do like the tone of it.

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/11362/1199647-84-0.stm

Dee10
12-29-2011, 11:03 PM
The stats I read last are 1 in 4 girls & 1 in 7 boys are abused. If true these are terrible odds!

SuziQ
12-29-2011, 11:09 PM
If I am not mistaken, it is a common MO is any type of domestic abuse, whether it be spousal, child, or domestic sexual abuse, to keep the victims isolated. Make sure they do not form bonds with schoolmates, neighbors.

If people get too close, they might begin to ask questions.

You just described my mom perfectly. People always thought she was overprotective. She was, but not for the reason they thought.

octobermoon
12-29-2011, 11:13 PM
If I am not mistaken, it is a common MO is any type of domestic abuse, whether it be spousal, child, or domestic sexual abuse, to keep the victims isolated. Make sure they do not form bonds with schoolmates, neighbors.

If people get too close, they might begin to ask questions.

Kinda O/T but the ex of mine slowly started that with me. And I am too old for that crap. Couldn't talk to my friends because he didn't like them. Did I tell my mom this or that?.. Trivial in the beginning and more serious in the end. Run people run if your gut tells you to. I am happy to say he is long gone.

PS Even tho I was head over heals at the start- he never spent one minute baby sitting my grandson. Was never left alone with him.

neese
12-29-2011, 11:13 PM
Is this the one? Even if not, I do like the tone of it.

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/11362/1199647-84-0.stm

But that's from Associated Press. I've read the same thing in just about every article where the local paper printed what A/P wrote. Am I right in thinking that it was not written by a pittsburgh reporter??? Just straight from A/P???

FrayedKnot
12-29-2011, 11:16 PM
The stats I read last are 1 in 4 girls & 1 in 7 boys are abused. If true these are terrible odds!

Today, with this heavy on my mind, I had to go to Walmart.

I swear to you, every man (sorry, I know women are SO's, too) I saw had me wondering "What nasty secret is HE hiding?"

I knew it was wrong and I do not want to raise my daughter in a world where everyone is suspect and she has to be afraid.

On the other hand, it only takes once. One innocent "big boy" walk home from summer school all by himself, one sleepover at a BFFs house, one rushed morning that you drop them off at school but don't actually see them all the way into the building.

Once.

How do we parent? How can we raise our children to be brave and confident and loving and giving when the putrid mess that poses as humanity is out there, just waiting for a chance to hurt them?

Is there a balanced place? A place where we can still teach them life skills and encourage them to grow wings, and not effectively abandon them to evil? Right now it doesn't seem like it.

It seems then, that the solution is to clean up the mess rather than worry about our babies becoming mired in it. Otherwise, they rob us no matter what.

Sorry for the O/T. My heart is just so very heavy tonight.

LydiaDeetz
12-29-2011, 11:18 PM
But that's from Associated Press. I've read the same thing in just about every article where the local paper printed what A/P wrote. Am I right in thinking that it was not written by a pittsburgh reporter??? Just straight from A/P???

Ah, you are correct. I didn't notice the AP byline, just saw that it was the only lengthy article about this case in the online version of the Pittsburgh Post Gazette. Perhaps there was a different article only published in the print edition.

I do like that this article points out which neighbors being interviewed are RSOs.

Filly
12-29-2011, 11:19 PM
Did TS want to Butter up her dad so that she could get inheritance money?
Just an idea.
:waitasec:

How much loot could this guy have had?;)

Filly
12-29-2011, 11:23 PM
Jumping in on this one,
http://www.herald-mail.com/news/hm-girl-brutally-slain-in-indiana-had-lived-in-hagerstown-20111229,0,2373850.story
Article says.
"Aliahna was a student at Winter Street school from January to June 2011, said Richard Wright, a spokesman for Washington County Public Schools."
This is a town, Hagerstown Maryland.

I lived about 100 yards from this school some years back, It is one of the worse "hoods" anyone can live in. It took us 18 months to sell our house at a very "low" selling price.
I cannot figure out why they lived there for 6 months. I have tried tracing all names but come up empty handed.Also, T worked in Chambersburg Penn. at the time and that is about a 30 mile drive one way from Hagerstown, perhaps she carpooled? I cant see her driving all that way to work at a rental store.
Im dying to know about this 6 month situation, this year :waitasec:

What's up with that?

Do you know where Orefield, PA is? I found TS coming up in an Orefield.

tlcya
12-29-2011, 11:24 PM
If I am not mistaken, it is a common MO is any type of domestic abuse, whether it be spousal, child, or domestic sexual abuse, to keep the victims isolated. Make sure they do not form bonds with schoolmates, neighbors.

If people get too close, they might begin to ask questions.

I agree, this is common in abuse situations and pleae dont take my next comment as condoning the IMO aplorable decision making that placed these girls inthat trailer
But
Poverty is also a reason a large number of families move frequently. Many folks live a gypsy sort of life, moving ffom eviction to eviction.. it can take a landlord several months to get non payin tenants out. Many families living in poverty fall into this lifestyle:(

missy_g
12-29-2011, 11:27 PM
Jumping in on this one,
http://www.herald-mail.com/news/hm-girl-brutally-slain-in-indiana-had-lived-in-hagerstown-20111229,0,2373850.story
Article says.
"Aliahna was a student at Winter Street school from January to June 2011, said Richard Wright, a spokesman for Washington County Public Schools."
This is a town, Hagerstown Maryland.

I lived about 100 yards from this school some years back, It is one of the worse "hoods" anyone can live in. It took us 18 months to sell our house at a very "low" selling price.
I cannot figure out why they lived there for 6 months. I have tried tracing all names but come up empty handed.Also, T worked in Chambersburg Penn. at the time and that is about a 30 mile drive one way from Hagerstown, perhaps she carpooled? I cant see her driving all that way to work at a rental store.
Im dying to know about this 6 month situation, this year :waitasec:

I live in this town now and I wouldn't exactly call it the worst "hood". It is very poor and there is A LOT of welfare. If this family lived in that area then, they were probably on welfare, or their income was very low that they couldn't afford better housing. Hagerstown isn't nearly as bad as lets say Baltimore or Detroit, it's just poor and run down (well this area anyway). The major crimes are drugs and there aren't too many violent crimes (well there have been a few lately). The poorer families usually live around the down town area while families with more money live further away from down town. I guess it's opposite compared to most cities.
Maybe she did drive? Chambersburg can offer better jobs/money.

Like I said in the other thread, if anyone has any questions about Hagerstown or the areas around it, let me know. You might have to PM me so it doesn't get lost in this thread.

neese
12-29-2011, 11:31 PM
Wow, here's a chart that actually gives numbers and percentages by state regarding, neglect, sex abuse etc. You need a pdf viewer like adobe to be able to open it. I was shocked at Vermont's percentage of child sex abuse. For some reason Oregon is the only state I found that had nothing reported, as in, they don't have the stats for Oregon for some reason. Shocking to read when you scroll through. Shows child fatalities per state, abuse, mal-treatment, sexual abuse, neglect etc etc. You just have to keep scrolling and each page has a different topic of what type of abuse. Unbelievable.

http://www.acf.hhs.gov/programs/cb/pubs/cm10/cm10.pdf#page=61

octobermoon
12-29-2011, 11:32 PM
Today, with this heavy on my mind, I had to go to Walmart.

I swear to you, every man (sorry, I know women are SO's, too) I saw had me wondering "What nasty secret is HE hiding?"

I knew it was wrong and I do not want to raise my daughter in a world where everyone is suspect and she has to be afraid.

On the other hand, it only takes once. One innocent "big boy" walk home from summer school all by himself, one sleepover at a BFFs house, one rushed morning that you drop them off at school but don't actually see them all the way into the building.

Once.

How do we parent? How can we raise our children to be brave and confident and loving and giving when the putrid mess that poses as humanity is out there, just waiting for a chance to hurt them?

Is there a balanced place? A place where we can still teach them life skills and encourage them to grow wings, and not effectively abandon them to evil? Right now it doesn't seem like it.

It seems then, that the solution is to clean up the mess rather than worry about our babies becoming mired in it. Otherwise, they rob us no matter what.

Sorry for the O/T. My heart is just so very heavy tonight.

As I said I am jaded. Give them wings when they are able to fly, but within the limits of their skills to protect themselves. Give them trusted adults and books and knowledge. We do let them fly when they are older.

We talk, talk, and talk till they are rolling their eyes at us. And talk till they know that they can tell.

Let them know they can tell and trust us enough to believe them.

But most of all parents must be responsible.

OneLove
12-29-2011, 11:33 PM
I agree, this is common in abuse situations and pleae dont take my next comment as condoning the IMO aplorable decision making that placed these girls inthat trailer
But
Poverty is also a reason a large number of families move frequently. Many folks live a gypsy sort of life, moving ffom eviction to eviction.. it can take a landlord several months to get non payin tenants out. Many families living in poverty fall into this lifestyle:(

True. I lived in a state once that takes 6 months of legal procedures to get a nonpaying renter out. So if they pay one months rent and one months deposit and quit paying, they can usually get 9-10 months residence for only 2 months rent. Oftentimes a landlord would let a month or so go by trying to "work with" a renter before starting eviction process.

Tenant laws in Vermont are tough on owners also. Years ago my ex-husband knew someone who built a new house across the street and rented out their old house. They watched the renters take a chainsaw and cut the entire floor out of a bedroom and keep PIGS under the house in that room. They just opened the door to that bedroom to "slop the hogs" with leftover food garbage. It took SIX MONTHS to follow the process to get those people out of the house. I can't even begin to imagine.

smittles
12-29-2011, 11:34 PM
They might live everywhere but that trailer park had them at a very high concentration compared to the rest of the state:
"In other words, three-fifths of the occupied units house a registered sex offender. That's an extraordinary concentration in Indiana, which has only 137 registered sex offenders per 100,000 population — the third-lowest ratio among all 50 states, according to data compiled by the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children."
http://usnews.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2011/12/27/9747130-scene-of-9-year-old-girls-killing-a-haven-for-sex-offenders

jjenny, trust me I know this trailer park well. I am from Fort Wayne and I wouldn't let my cat walk through there. I really wasn't trying to make any point, I was just saying that I had thought we were pretty safe but you just never know. I also realize that there are 15 rso's in this trailer park and 1 in my neighborhood (which is huge).

simlyme
12-29-2011, 11:37 PM
I live in this town now and I wouldn't exactly call it the worst "hood". It is very poor and there is A LOT of welfare. If this family lived in that area then, they were probably on welfare, or their income was very low that they couldn't afford better housing. Hagerstown isn't nearly as bad as lets say Baltimore or Detroit, it's just poor and run down (well this area anyway). The major crimes are drugs and there aren't too many violent crimes (well there have been a few lately). The poorer families usually live around the down town area while families with more money live further away from down town. I guess it's opposite compared to most cities.
Maybe she did drive? Chambersburg can offer better jobs/money.

Like I said in the other thread, if anyone has any questions about Hagerstown or the areas around it, let me know. You might have to PM me so it doesn't get lost in this thread.

I totally agree with you about Hagerstown in general, BUT, we lived in the WEST end for 1 year, I have 20+ years in Hagerstown and my husband had 48 years there,(born and raised) no matter which way one looks at it ,the west end is the "hood". I LOVE hagerstown, I want to be back in Hagerstown, but FAR from the west end. No offense, but MHO

Filly
12-29-2011, 11:43 PM
Today, with this heavy on my mind, I had to go to Walmart.

I swear to you, every man (sorry, I know women are SO's, too) I saw had me wondering "What nasty secret is HE hiding?"

I knew it was wrong and I do not want to raise my daughter in a world where everyone is suspect and she has to be afraid.

On the other hand, it only takes once. One innocent "big boy" walk home from summer school all by himself, one sleepover at a BFFs house, one rushed morning that you drop them off at school but don't actually see them all the way into the building.

Once.

How do we parent? How can we raise our children to be brave and confident and loving and giving when the putrid mess that poses as humanity is out there, just waiting for a chance to hurt them?

Is there a balanced place? A place where we can still teach them life skills and encourage them to grow wings, and not effectively abandon them to evil? Right now it doesn't seem like it.

It seems then, that the solution is to clean up the mess rather than worry about our babies becoming mired in it. Otherwise, they rob us no matter what.

Sorry for the O/T. My heart is just so very heavy tonight.


Excellent post.

First don't look at "crimes against children" because I posted about a Wal-Mart in MN where a guy groped a child within inches of her mom. They have it on video. Day after Christmas.

There does have to be a balance. I was raised up on "Better scared than dead" as my dad was a Detective. Still I was sexually assaulted at eight years old. Times are changing and we're empowering our kids. I wouldn't have told my mom a guy groped me in a Wal-Mart. Today that little girl told. Told right away. We need to educate the right way. Back in my day it was just fear of the unknown scarry man and not the creeper grandpop of our friends.

Like Octobermom I didn't trust anyone. My DD will tell you today I kept her in a bubble. I say "That was my job". It shouldn't have been. It also backfires as I didn't teach her skills to protect herself and in her early 20's now she has absolutely no fear. None. Not even after being robbed at gunpoint.

Empower your children with as much knowledge as they need. IMO as you go along. You're doing well.

Sorry for the O/T too. Sending love and light to fellow survivors, and prayers our kids can live in a safer world and know they are cherished.

Dee10
12-29-2011, 11:45 PM
I live in this town now and I wouldn't exactly call it the worst "hood". It is very poor and there is A LOT of welfare. If this family lived in that area then, they were probably on welfare, or their income was very low that they couldn't afford better housing. Hagerstown isn't nearly as bad as lets say Baltimore or Detroit, it's just poor and run down (well this area anyway). The major crimes are drugs and there aren't too many violent crimes (well there have been a few lately). The poorer families usually live around the down town area while families with more money live further away from down town. I guess it's opposite compared to most cities.
Maybe she did drive? Chambersburg can offer better jobs/money.

Like I said in the other thread, if anyone has any questions about Hagerstown or the areas around it, let me know. You might have to PM me so it doesn't get lost in this thread.

I have only been to the mall there a couple times many moons ago though, spent weekends in W. Vir., & lived outside Balt. so I didn't see the area as bad...more WHY did they suddenly move THERE from of Iowa & although the school year ended they move to Indi. because of the father, but I am suspect right now to everything. I wonder if it was to avoid the abuse problem in Iowa, I would bet they have a friend or contact in Hagerstown. I have terrible thoughts of why they moved, where they moved, etc. I think it is going to be important to this case. I think it could be something teachers should be aware of new students, maybe to keep an extra eye on this pupil. I could certainly see how a family could fall under the radar of CPS unfortunately.

neese
12-29-2011, 11:45 PM
Today, with this heavy on my mind, I had to go to Walmart.

I swear to you, every man (sorry, I know women are SO's, too) I saw had me wondering "What nasty secret is HE hiding?"

I knew it was wrong and I do not want to raise my daughter in a world where everyone is suspect and she has to be afraid.

On the other hand, it only takes once. One innocent "big boy" walk home from summer school all by himself, one sleepover at a BFFs house, one rushed morning that you drop them off at school but don't actually see them all the way into the building.

Once.

How do we parent? How can we raise our children to be brave and confident and loving and giving when the putrid mess that poses as humanity is out there, just waiting for a chance to hurt them?

Is there a balanced place? A place where we can still teach them life skills and encourage them to grow wings, and not effectively abandon them to evil? Right now it doesn't seem like it.

It seems then, that the solution is to clean up the mess rather than worry about our babies becoming mired in it. Otherwise, they rob us no matter what.

Sorry for the O/T. My heart is just so very heavy tonight.

Well I do worry about this a lot with the four year old boy I babysit at my home. When we are outside, I have told him we are going to play "stranger danger" so he will know exactly what to do if anyone he doesn't know ever comes up to him. I've told him that someone could come to the fence and say, "hey you're babysitter said for you to come with me" or someone could see him in a grocery store and say, "your mom said to come with me so she can buy you a surprise without you seeing the surprise" I have went over every possible scenario I can think of. I've even role played and played the stranger and told him to pretend he does not know me, and I'll go hide and then appear and say things a stranger would and he immediately runs inside the house. I never leave him outside alone, but if I do tell him, I'm going to be right here in the garage, he'll say, "and neese, I know, don't go with any strangers and yell and scream and throw myself on the ground if they try to pick me up" I've even taught him how to call 911 from a cell phone and told him never do it to play around with the phone. Others have gotten on me and said a four year old shouldn't be shown to call 911 or he may do it just for fun. Well, I'd rather he do it just for fun and learn not to, rather than be afraid to use it when he needed to. So far, he is still outgoing and friendly but he always has in the back of his little mind that anyone could be someone that wants to do something bad to him and he should always tell someone. And now that I've looked up the RSO's I just now find that one is living on the street behind me and I can view his house from my backyard. Now I'm extra glad I've been teaching the little one, "stranger danger." His gma and gpa have custody of him b/c his mother is in jail and they just blow everything off and think I'm being paranoid. They don't even lock their doors at night. FREAKS me out!!!

Dee10
12-29-2011, 11:49 PM
Just remember, it is NOT AWALYS stranger-danger; it could be a scout-leader, daycare teacher, babysitter, uncle, family friend, the friendly neighbor...it is most OFTEN someone the child knows & they have to be taught that as well.

I was late to the bus stop & my son had accepted a ride from a friend of my husband. We read him the riot act...just because we know him...etc. He didn't really understand for a long time, but he never forgot it.

missy_g
12-29-2011, 11:50 PM
I totally agree with you about Hagerstown in general, BUT, we lived in the WEST end for 1 year, I have 20+ years in Hagerstown and my husband had 48 years there,(born and raised) no matter which way one looks at it ,the west end is the "hood". I LOVE hagerstown, I want to be back in Hagerstown, but FAR from the west end. No offense, but MHO

I don't think you see my point exactly.

I know the West End. I have known many people in the West End.

What my point is, is it's not the "worst hood". Maybe in Hagerstown but in comparison to other "hoods" it's not that bad. I don't want people to think that where she lived in Hagerstown is like Baltimore City. You don't have to worry about drive bys and getting shot if you walk out of your house and wear the wrong colors. IMO there are WAY worse cities in the USA. I just don't want to give people the wrong idea about where she lived. It's poor and rundown YES but it's not like Detroit or areas of Washington DC.

I was born and raised here too.

octobermoon
12-29-2011, 11:57 PM
Just remember, it is NOT AWALYS stranger-danger; it could be a scout-leader, daycare teacher, babysitter, uncle, family friend, the friendly neighbor...it is most OFTEN someone the child knows & they have to be taught that as well.



BBM

Sadly this is true

:(

passionflower
12-30-2011, 12:04 AM
Was MP ever married? Does he have children of his own?
What do we know about his personal life other than born and raised in Gastonia.
FLA wanted him for parole violations, but what else?
Any relatives of his come forward?
Does he have anymental problems?
We know about assault and anger management.......
Did he EVER work at a REAL job?

neese
12-30-2011, 12:04 AM
Just remember, it is NOT AWALYS stranger-danger; it could be a scout-leader, daycare teacher, babysitter, uncle, family friend, the friendly neighbor...it is most OFTEN someone the child knows & they have to be taught that as well.

I was late to the bus stop & my son had accepted a ride from a friend of my husband. We read him the riot act...just because we know him...etc. He didn't really understand for a long time, but he never forgot it.

Yes very true. I also always tell him how it's not right for anyone to touch or want to see his private parts and that if that was to ever happen that he can tell me or anyone so that we can make sure nobody ever does anything wrong to him. What worries me is that his mom just got out of jail a few days before Christmas and is running with the same crowd, drugs basically, and I worry that one of her chums could try to come over and get him to go with them by saying, I'm here to take you to see your mommy. He loves his mommy and was so happy to see her on Christmas Day, but gma and gpa will not allow her to be a part of his life except on their terms which is short supervised visits at their home only and with them always there. She has offered to keep him at their house for them to have a night out, pssht, she's already robbed them blind and they said she must think they are stupid to ever think they would allow her alone with the little one or alone in their home at all.

IHAVENOCLUE
12-30-2011, 12:07 AM
How much loot could this guy have had?;)

Maybe enough to buy a new keyboard when the old one wears out from FarmVille or whatever that game is?:seeya:

passionflower
12-30-2011, 12:09 AM
Is this the one? Even if not, I do like the tone of it.

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/11362/1199647-84-0.stm

YES thankyou so much.....worded at a tone I liked also...........

neese
12-30-2011, 12:10 AM
Maybe enough to buy a new keyboard when the old one wears out from FarmVille or whatever that game is?:seeya:

One article said he was a postal carrier at one time. I wonder if he retired from the post office. If so, he may be getting a gov't pension. There was a flag on his casket. Do gov't employees get the flag for funerals or is it just military? There was a flag for some reason draped over the casket and I'm sure it wasn't for his RSO status with the gov't. I bet there's a pension to be had. JMO.

simlyme
12-30-2011, 12:10 AM
I don't think you see my point exactly.

I know the West End. I have known many people in the West End.

What my point is, is it's not the "worst hood". Maybe in Hagerstown but in comparison to other "hoods" it's not that bad. I don't want people to think that where she lived in Hagerstown is like Baltimore City. You don't have to worry about drive bys and getting shot if you walk out of your house and wear the wrong colors. IMO there are WAY worse cities in the USA. I just don't want to give people the wrong idea about where she lived. It's poor and rundown YES but it's not like Detroit or areas of Washington DC.

I was born and raised here too.

OK, I think Im on the same page with you now, :crazy: I should have said"one of the worse hoods in Hagerstown". I never implied it was anything like a massive city like Baltimore City,or Detroit, BTW, Baltimore and Detroit do have neighborhoods that have safer areas than Hagerstown (west end).
All I know is that where Ali lived in Hagerstown, the Winter Street School area is not a "safe" place for children.

Bodhi
12-30-2011, 12:31 AM
Okay I understand we're not to sleuth the victims. Even though I don't consider TS or AS as victims, I'll accept and obey the rules but..........

I would love to know more about the background not only of MP, but also TS.
Was TS the only child that was available and wanted or would help her SO father? Where are her siblings? Do they have any relationship with her, her husband, and children? Did they have a relationship with their father? Do they have one with their mother?
Just curious because maybe the others have distanced themselves from this man, and possibly TS and her lifestyle.
Just not hearing from any of them, except AS (TS mom) when she was saying how much she trusted MP, makes me question if they all walked away from their bio family to save themselves and their kids, and if so why didn't TS?

MOO

ETA~Not sleuthing...just pondering

JL's obituary lists 3 children. The oldest two are from a marriage to someone else, not Amber S. They may not have had much to do with JL. My speculation only: perhaps their mother had higher standards in childrearing and was a better judge of character than Amber.

menmo
12-30-2011, 12:32 AM
How much loot could this guy have had?;)

Has anyone found out if Grandpa L owned his trailer and just paid lot rent? Maybe that was the draw for TS and AS to move closer?
If Grandpa did own it I wonder how long MP would have been allowed to live there. Was there a time frame set with him and Grandpa?

ETA Someone mentioned maybe Grandpa was getting a pension. Would that pension transfer to anyone else if he wasn't married? Military or government??

missy_g
12-30-2011, 12:32 AM
OK, I think Im on the same page with you now, :crazy: I should have said"one of the worse hoods in Hagerstown". I never implied it was anything like a massive city like Baltimore City,or Detroit, BTW, Baltimore and Detroit do have neighborhoods that have safer areas than Hagerstown (west end).
All I know is that where Ali lived in Hagerstown, the Winter Street School area is not a "safe" place for children.

Not necessarily but random acts of violence aren't a big thing here so typically kids aren't going to be grabbed or whatever unless it's by someone they know.

My biggest problem with Winter Street School is that 95% of the kids walk since there is no bus system for that school and people drive like idiots and it's on a busy street.

IMO Ali was WAY worse off in that trailer park then she was here.

missy_g
12-30-2011, 12:33 AM
Has anyone found out if Grandpa L owned his trailer and just paid lot rent? Maybe that was the draw for TS and AS to move closer?
If Grandpa did own it I wonder how long MP would have been allowed to live there. Was there a time frame set with him and Grandpa?

If there was a flag on his casket, I wonder if he was getting some kind of payments from the military or postal service?

Dee10
12-30-2011, 12:34 AM
I don't know where they were in Iowa so a quick estimation from a map of Iowa(?) to Hagerstown give or take I calculated at 900 miles. That is a big move; they had to know someone / reason / or job to decide to land there. I hope the reporters are digging.

sreshowtime
12-30-2011, 12:34 AM
Just remember, it is NOT AWALYS stranger-danger; it could be a scout-leader, daycare teacher, babysitter, uncle, family friend, the friendly neighbor...it is most OFTEN someone the child knows & they have to be taught that as well.

I was late to the bus stop & my son had accepted a ride from a friend of my husband. We read him the riot act...just because we know him...etc. He didn't really understand for a long time, but he never forgot it.

it can also be the youth minister at your church

sreshowtime
12-30-2011, 12:40 AM
JL's obituary lists 3 children. The oldest two are from a marriage to someone else, not Amber S. They may not have had much to do with JL. My speculation only: perhaps their mother had higher standards in childrearing and was a better judge of character than Amber.


I figured as much as there isn't much FB friending going on there between the sibs at least
I agree

passionflower
12-30-2011, 12:41 AM
I thought it was odd that Ali's picture was taken in the funeral home.
and not a group pic. Wonder who took it? MP?

Sparklin
12-30-2011, 12:41 AM
From that article, I'm assuming the friend either lives in the trailer park or very close to it since the girls rode bikes after school together.
What I'd like to know is, just how many kids live that close all of those RSOs in the trailer park?

I thought this was a friend from her old school, before they moved to FW?

sreshowtime
12-30-2011, 12:43 AM
Has anyone found out if Grandpa L owned his trailer and just paid lot rent? Maybe that was the draw for TS and AS to move closer?
If Grandpa did own it I wonder how long MP would have been allowed to live there. Was there a time frame set with him and Grandpa?

ETA Someone mentioned maybe Grandpa was getting a pension. Would that pension transfer to anyone else if he wasn't married? Military or government??

Vietnam vet ( is there veterean's hospital in Ft Wayne by chance?)
per- http://www.legacy.com/obituaries/fortwayne/obituary.aspx?n=james-e-lemmon&pid=154914940

and retired w/disability

OH yes, TS husband is retired military, he should be getting retirement and still get military benefits like medical, even for the new wife & kids...unless the rules have changed

menmo
12-30-2011, 12:44 AM
JL's obituary lists 3 children. The oldest two are from a marriage to someone else, not Amber S. They may not have had much to do with JL. My speculation only: perhaps their mother had higher standards in childrearing and was a better judge of character than Amber.
Thank you, I didn't know that TS was from a different marriage. Makes so much more sense now.


If there was a flag on his casket, I wonder if he was getting some kind of payments from the military or postal service?
I thought I read that he was a Vietnam veteran. I'm fairly new here and can't find the links like you all can, but I know I read it somewhere.

MOO

Sparklin
12-30-2011, 12:46 AM
So, let me see...The other con (GS) introduced grandfather Lemmon and Plumadore, presumably grandfather Lemmon introduced Plumadore to Tarah, and the girls, and Tarah then introduced Plumadore to Ali's bio father.
That is what I get from the media articles.

However, what I get from other articles, facebook, and general discussion is that although Lemmon and Plumadore didn't begin their arrangement until 8/2011, somehow, Ali's father, who has had very little contact with her lately, according to his statements, knew Plumadore, even though he allegedly didn't meet the rest of the family until August or possibly even September of 2011...

Something just isn't working out here, but it's likely something that I am missing. What am I doing wrong, reading wrong, or misinterpreting?

Believe me, previous thread I had all these 'wonders' and some....

I believe though (could be very wrong) that Plumadore was taking care of or at least living in the trailer park BEFORE 8/2011 but moved to ?? and then the family asked him to come back and take care of him again...something about asking him to quit his job and come back to look after grandpa.
There was an MSM comment from dad somewhere about him knowing MP with no reason not to trust him and that he met him through TS...so I don't know anymore - it's one big cluster.....

passionflower
12-30-2011, 12:46 AM
Vietnam vet ( is there veterean's hospital in Ft Wayne by chance?)
per- http://www.legacy.com/obituaries/fortwayne/obituary.aspx?n=james-e-lemmon&pid=154914940

there is, my BIL goes to it

menmo
12-30-2011, 12:47 AM
Vietnam vet ( is there veterean's hospital in Ft Wayne by chance?)
per- http://www.legacy.com/obituaries/fortwayne/obituary.aspx?n=james-e-lemmon&pid=154914940

Thank you! Do you know if that military pension would transfer to his children or ex-wife? Of course that doesn't mean he didn't sock some away somewhere I guess. Just have a hard time looking at this family and believing it.

MOO

passionflower
12-30-2011, 12:50 AM
Thank you! Do you know if that military pension would transfer to his children or ex-wife? Of course that doesn't mean he didn't sock some away somewhere I guess. Just have a hard time looking at this family and believing it.

MOO

Disability no, but military pension has a beneficiary and they do not have to be related anymore since the don't ask don't tell thing

Helenstreet
12-30-2011, 12:51 AM
I don't think you see my point exactly.

I know the West End. I have known many people in the West End.

What my point is, is it's not the "worst hood". Maybe in Hagerstown but in comparison to other "hoods" it's not that bad. I don't want people to think that where she lived in Hagerstown is like Baltimore City. You don't have to worry about drive bys and getting shot if you walk out of your house and wear the wrong colors. IMO there are WAY worse cities in the USA. I just don't want to give people the wrong idea about where she lived. It's poor and rundown YES but it's not like Detroit or areas of Washington DC.

I was born and raised here too.

I understand that Detroit usually gets a bad rap, but there are some very nice areas of Detroit as well. Although I was born and raised in western Michigan, I am very familiar with metro Detroit. Personally, I find Flint, Michigan to be a scarier place in general than Detroit, and Flint has its nice areas as well. Also, some of the suburbs of Detroit are amongst the most affluent in the nation. Places like Plymouth, Northville, Bloomfield Hills, etc. come readily to mind. I couldn't help but respond; it is the second time that you mentioned Detroit. Just my perspective....

Dee10
12-30-2011, 12:52 AM
One article said he was a postal carrier at one time. I wonder if he retired from the post office. If so, he may be getting a gov't pension. There was a flag on his casket. Do gov't employees get the flag for funerals or is it just military? There was a flag for some reason draped over the casket and I'm sure it wasn't for his RSO status with the gov't. I bet there's a pension to be had. JMO.

OMG...Grandfather may possibly have been a postal worker at one time?...add mailman to the list the unlimited list of professions.:tos: SEE anyone can be a MOLESTER!

ClaireNC
12-30-2011, 12:52 AM
So, let me see...The other con (GS) introduced grandfather Lemmon and Plumadore, presumably grandfather Lemmon introduced Plumadore to Tarah, and the girls, and Tarah then introduced Plumadore to Ali's bio father.
That is what I get from the media articles.

However, what I get from other articles, facebook, and general discussion is that although Lemmon and Plumadore didn't begin their arrangement until 8/2011, somehow, Ali's father, who has had very little contact with her lately, according to his statements, knew Plumadore, even though he allegedly didn't meet the rest of the family until August or possibly even September of 2011...

Something just isn't working out here, but it's likely something that I am missing. What am I doing wrong, reading wrong, or misinterpreting?

This has probably already been answered, but I'm just catching up. There is an article in the media section that says Plumadore was introduced to the grandfather, James Lemmon, about 4 years ago. Fellow RSO, Greg Shumaker made the introduction and Plumadore moved in with Lemmon a few days later. It sounds like Plumadore was there for a few years and went back to NC in the spring of 2011. He returned to the trailer park a few months later, (in the summer of 2011), to help care for the old pedophile because his (Lemmon's) health was quickly deteriorating.

What we don't know is how Shumaker met Plumadore to begin with. For reference here is the link to Greg/Gregory Herbert Shumaker in the Indiana Sex Offender Registry. http://www.icrimewatch.net/offenderdetails.php?OfndrID=579799&AgencyID=54663

sreshowtime
12-30-2011, 12:55 AM
When my father passed 2 yrs ago, retired Army, his VA death benefit was left to my daughter and I , my mother predeceased and he changed it to us. I am not certain that benefit goes only to retirees, or all vets. If anything, I would think his first wife was entitled first, then his children.
moo, I would venture to guess that JL made other bad choices besides molesting and may have died near penniless....

twall
12-30-2011, 12:58 AM
Vietnam vet ( is there veterean's hospital in Ft Wayne by chance?)
per- http://www.legacy.com/obituaries/fortwayne/obituary.aspx?n=james-e-lemmon&pid=154914940

and retired w/disability

OH yes, TS husband is retired military, he should be getting retirement and still get military benefits like medical, even for the new wife & kids...unless the rules have changed

yes, there is a VA hospital in Ft. Wayne.

http://www.northernindiana.va.gov/visitors/Fort_Wayne_Indiana.asp

IHAVENOCLUE
12-30-2011, 01:03 AM
Hi Fellow Sleuthers!
DH and DD gave me a new iPad for Christmas, and I am using it to try to keep up with this thread. I can read well, but my Thanks and Quote buttons are a little stubborn (or I might not have the right touch, yet :crazy: ), so I have not been responding as I would like.

However, I applaud all of you for your dedication in sleuthing through this horrific case.
Every time a new piece of info. emerges, I think, "It can't get any worse than this!", and then.....IT DOES!

I have so many questions, many of which I have seen posted. And my mind keeps drifting to very dark places when I try to come up with answers. But something tells me, the true answers are even darker than the ones I can think of!

Thank you all for keeping us updated on MSM, insider observations, etc.
And thank you for your own heart wrenching personal stories. Thank you for being so brave to share, and I am glad you feel safe in sharing with us.
I am truly keeping little A in my prayers. I know she is in a place where none of these people can ever hurt or scare her again.:prayer:

twall
12-30-2011, 01:04 AM
But that's from Associated Press. I've read the same thing in just about every article where the local paper printed what A/P wrote. Am I right in thinking that it was not written by a pittsburgh reporter??? Just straight from A/P???

I have read it several places also but the byline on this one contradicts the last part. :crazy:

Slain Ind. girl lived among sex offenders

Including the man accused of killing her as well as her grandfather


Mr. Plumadore is not on Indiana's registered sex-offenders list.

Read more: http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/11362/1199647-84-0.stm#ixzz1hzWRf3MW

mahoolin
12-30-2011, 01:04 AM
I asked elsewhere but cannot remember where I saw this or if it related to this case...
Is there a picture of Tarah with tattoos and does her husband have a picture of that on a fb... and... is it some kind of evil symbol or is it like a tribal tattoo... or a band logo or what?

It's on hubby's my space pages. pic of pentagram tattoo. Dad lists as being a wiccan, and if I remember right the pentagram symbol is connected in some way. (I wondered if it was really mom even in the pics- dramatic change in her appearance since they were taken). pics of dad's retirement and other misc shots.

(I hope I'm allowed to say where - MODS - if not, delete this one - I did learn I can't post the link though from my last post)
:)

twall
12-30-2011, 01:11 AM
Has anyone found out if Grandpa L owned his trailer and just paid lot rent? Maybe that was the draw for TS and AS to move closer?
If Grandpa did own it I wonder how long MP would have been allowed to live there. Was there a time frame set with him and Grandpa?

ETA Someone mentioned maybe Grandpa was getting a pension. Would that pension transfer to anyone else if he wasn't married? Military or government??

I looked into the trailer ownership and could not find an answer because mobile homes are not considered real property if not on a permanent foundation so they are not on the appraiser's site. They are considered personal property so if you own a mh you are taxed at the personal property rate. I have no idea if any of those homes are privately owned or the mhp owner owns them. I can't access the personal property tax records.

smittles
12-30-2011, 01:11 AM
Okay, I had asked this in another thread but it was moving so fast my ? didn't get answered.

Are there other children besides the Ali's sister and stepsister living at the house?

Are TS and husband the only adults living at the house?

passionflower
12-30-2011, 01:11 AM
had to look it up........

http://www.angelfire.com/id/robpurvis/pentagram.html

Bodhi
12-30-2011, 01:13 AM
I figured as much as there isn't much FB friending going on there between the sibs at least
I agree

And JL's other children seem to have strong, loving families of their own.

neese
12-30-2011, 01:14 AM
I'm not allowed to post a link to an Iowa court website, online court records, regarding a victim in this case having a case opened where he's being taken to court for paternity and child support for a descedent? Am I? Is that considered sleuthing a victim? TIA.

neese
12-30-2011, 01:19 AM
OMG...Grandfather may possibly have been a postal worker at one time?...add mailman to the list the unlimited list of professions.:tos: SEE anyone can be a MOLESTER!


Newspaper carrier also was listed. I need Krimekat here for the links. Some people were thinking he could link up to the girl that was killed where there were notes left on a barn and in little girl's bicycle baskets etc. Cannot remember her name. Somebody help?

Dee10
12-30-2011, 01:22 AM
:tyou:Earlier today, I cried to my BF...that this case has really broken me; I have been nauseated since it came out Boxing Day Night; she suggested to go back to mystery fiction and she knows I follow a number of cases. I was ready to call it quits but until I hear the charges & find out more? I also have some semi & cold cases that I dearly care about I could not just forget about, but I could just ck in. But the thing that helped me tonight, that made me feel BETTER, is being chatty-cathy (which I usually am not). I have to say typing left-right & center this afternoon have made a huge difference to express what I am feeling with all of you that are processing your emotions over the last few days is seeming to help some how.:blowkiss::blowkiss:

Bodhi
12-30-2011, 01:22 AM
Okay, I had asked this in another thread but it was moving so fast my ? didn't get answered.

Are there other children besides the Ali's sister and stepsister living at the house?

Are TS and husband the only adults living at the house?

I posed the question about possible other kids in the last thread too, smittles, and I am still confused. I've read contradictory things. Some posts mentioned a 4th child, a younger boy. And JL's obituary looks like TS may be the mother of grandson K. The ages and relationship of the other 2 girls at MP's varies in MSM reports and posts here too.

If there is a MSM link or a clarification in a post here, I'd appreciate it. I've tried to read through all the threads, but with things moving quickly I may not have seen it. Thanks in advance!

I haven't seen anything about another adult living with TS and AS, smittles. That would be interesting, given the explanation that TS was too sick and AS was at work or sleeping to have the 3 girls at home.

Amster
12-30-2011, 01:22 AM
IMO, the fact that "mom" has to be treated as a victim is one of the reasons that her daughter was put in danger.

twall
12-30-2011, 01:24 AM
Newspaper carrier also was listed. I need Krimekat here for the links. Some people were thinking he could link up to the girl that was killed where there were notes left on a barn and in little girl's bicycle baskets etc. Cannot remember her name. Somebody help?

Newspaper carrier is in JL's obit.

April Tinsley-murdered in Ft. Wayne in 1988, body found in a ditch in Dekalb Co., case is unsolved.

Bodhi
12-30-2011, 01:26 AM
I'm not allowed to post a link to an Iowa court website, online court records, regarding a victim in this case having a case opened where he's being taken to court for paternity and child support for a descedent? Am I? Is that considered sleuthing a victim? TIA.

I saw that too and was surprised by the date, but I do not know whether you can link to it, neese.

Darcyline
12-30-2011, 01:27 AM
IIRC, this info was given by the step-grandpa, DS, to the media. I don't think anyone has discovered who these 2 people are, or confirmed any of this. I do know that bio-dad is not a RSO in Iowa, or anywhere that I can find.

ETA: When DS released this info, he added that these two people were arrested.

Thank you for this response-I did not see it earlier. I would type why this point seems so important to me, but I will respect the mods desire to keep the Mom and family as complete victims in everything that happened.

All I will say is it deeply saddens me that an innocent child had to live through multiple instances of abuse and the last one led to her horrific death.

Sparklin
12-30-2011, 01:28 AM
IIRC, this info was given by the step-grandpa, DS, to the media. I don't think anyone has discovered who these 2 people are, or confirmed any of this. I do know that bio-dad is not a RSO in Iowa, or anywhere that I can find.

ETA: When DS released this info, he added that these two people were arrested.

...and it was NOT stated as 'sexual' abuse, just to be clear??

mrsu
12-30-2011, 01:29 AM
I believe Tarah's husband's family is from the PA/MD area. So I'm speculating that is what took them in that direction. And they moved back to IN late 2011 to care for her father?

passionflower
12-30-2011, 01:30 AM
Newspaper carrier is in JL's obit.

April Tinsley-murdered in Ft. Wayne in 1988, body found in a ditch in Dekalb Co., case is unsolved.

How long did RSO grandpa live in FT. W? Where was he a postal worker?
Did he have a route? Who would ever (untl now) ever exect a mailman?
Could he of told stories to MP and get him into experimenting?
What do RSO talk about? their conquets?
Ok I admit my imagination is carried away with all kind of thoughts.
There has to be connecting the dots here somewhere.

passionflower
12-30-2011, 01:34 AM
Can the mom and SF be arrested for neglect?

tlcya
12-30-2011, 01:34 AM
...and it was NOT stated as 'sexual' abuse, just to be clear??

Correct

mahoolin
12-30-2011, 01:36 AM
depending on who you believe, MP had only been at the trailer since August, which would be after TS and Co. arrived in July...

I'm going to go gather some links and make sure no info has been changed, because the only thing I can think of is that someone is reporting bad info, or someone is lying.

BBM
I'd call it lazy and/or sloppy reporting. I had a reporter friend of mine make up a story and quote me in it - it wasn't a story of any significance, but it made me furious. A few more lines to fill out the story to meet deadline and there I was - only I wasn't. :poke:

Also, years ago three different papers reported the death of one of my family members in three TOTALLY different ways. Time of day, manner death, location, weather etc... - all were different. :waitasec:

I think reporters talk to people who "know" what happened, their reporter friends and also strangers; only each person tells the story as they think they understand it, and it changes with each version.

So, it does happen. :whoosh:

passionflower
12-30-2011, 01:39 AM
I believe Tarah's husband's family is from the PA/MD area. So I'm speculating that is what took them in that direction. And they moved back to IN late 2011 to care for her father?

late 2011 and the death of TS father, maybe al those cardboard boxes
going to storage is still stuff she never unpacked from the move.
It took me months to unpack everything from my move. Boxes lined up against the wall til I got bookcases to unload it all. Just a thought.
But she is so busy now (funeral, murder and her children to think about such stuff????

Bodhi
12-30-2011, 01:40 AM
This has probably already been answered, but I'm just catching up. There is an article in the media section that says Plumadore was introduced to the grandfather, James Lemmon, about 4 years ago. Fellow RSO, Greg Shumaker made the introduction and Plumadore moved in with Lemmon a few days later. It sounds like Plumadore was there for a few years and went back to NC in the spring of 2011. He returned to the trailer park a few months later, (in the summer of 2011), to help care for the old pedophile because his (Lemmon's) health was quickly deteriorating.

What we don't know is how Shumaker met Plumadore to begin with. For reference here is the link to Greg/Gregory Herbert Shumaker in the Indiana Sex Offender Registry. http://www.icrimewatch.net/offenderdetails.php?OfndrID=579799&AgencyID=54663

Thanks, ClaireNC. Posters, including me, are questioning whether what's been reported in MSM (the quote from GS) is accurate. AL's biological father in Iowa knew and trusted MP and he said he hadn't had much contact with AL recently because TS changed phone numbers often. Amber Story, TS's mother, trusted MP. David Story, Amber's new husband, trusted the man who was taking care of his wife's ex, JL. MP and TS lived in Iowa at the same time. There just seems to a more complex connection between MP and AL's family than what's been reported, and one that goes back further than last summer.

twall
12-30-2011, 01:41 AM
How long did RSO grandpa live in FT. W? Where was he a postal worker?
Did he have a route? Who would ever (untl now) ever exect a mailman?
Could he of told stories to MP and get him into experimenting?
What do RSO talk about? their conquets?
Ok I admit my imagination is carried away with all kind of thoughts.
There has to be connecting the dots here somewhere.

From the obit-
He had been a mail carrier in Des Moines, Iowa for 12 years.

As I was reading his obit again and thinking about the April Tinsley case a thought crossed my mind. Obit says "He worked as a shift supervisor for Kautex, Avilla, retiring in 1997 due to a disability." I know where Kautex is, it is a mfg. plant. The plant is in Noble Co. but very close to the Dekalb Co. line where April's body was discarded. The obit says he was a newspaper carrier for the FT. Wayne Jounal Gazette but doesn't list the years. His route could have also been in the area, I live 30 miles from Ft. Wayne and can have the paper delivered to me if I subscribed. IIRC on a previous thread a poster said they called in to April's tipline and gave the information on MP, saying he should be looked into, they do have DNA samples collected from April for comparison, I think they should look into JL too.

eta-sorry for the April o/t, from now on I will go to her thread

Marnie4
12-30-2011, 01:43 AM
It's on hubby's my space pages. pic of pentagram tattoo. Dad lists as being a wiccan, and if I remember right the pentagram symbol is connected in some way. (I wondered if it was really mom even in the pics- dramatic change in her appearance since they were taken). pics of dad's retirement and other misc shots.

(I hope I'm allowed to say where - MODS - if not, delete this one - I did learn I can't post the link though from my last post)
:)

Just when I though I couldnt get anymore creeped out...I scoped his FB page...IMO the pentagram tattoo is the LEAST of the red flags.

octobermoon
12-30-2011, 01:43 AM
Why????????

passionflower
12-30-2011, 01:44 AM
From the obit-
He had been a mail carrier in Des Moines, Iowa for 12 years.

As I was reading his obit again and thinking about the April Tinsley case a thought crossed my mind. Obit says "He worked as a shift supervisor for Kautex, Avilla, retiring in 1997 due to a disability." I know where Kautex is, it is a mfg. plant. The plant is in Noble Co. but very close to the Dekalb Co. line where April's body was discarded. The obit says he was a newspaper carrier for the FT. Wayne Jounal Gazette but doesn't list the years. His route could have also been in the area, I live 30 miles from Ft. Wayne and can have the paper delivered to me if I subscribed. IIRC on a previous thread a poster said they called in to April's tipline and gave the information on MP, saying he should be looked into, they do have DNA samples collected from April for comparison, I think they should look into JL too.

maybe another reason for delay in the charges........unsolved crimes in areas they were in???

passionflower
12-30-2011, 01:46 AM
Just when I though I couldnt get anymore creeped out...I scoped his FB page...IMO the pentagram tattoo is the LEAST of the red flags.

real dad or step dad?

Marnie4
12-30-2011, 01:47 AM
[QUOTE=octobermoon;7472863]Why????????[/QUOTE

Trying desperately to avoid "bashing" as requested...have you seen the photos on his page?

gitana1
12-30-2011, 01:47 AM
Filly
I so agree and felt/feel the same. As a survivor I am jaded, but too bad. And I let anyone who felt slighted know why I did what I did to protect my boy. None objected, none complained. none. And not a damn one would expect less for their own children. That is how it should be. :(

It is how it should be. Yet for some reason, many parents do not share this instinct to protect. Let me start a story illustrating that with another story, about me and my mom. Now my mom is not the suspicious type, but her instincts are intense. For example, in the 70's, when I was 4, she watched me walk the short way to the corner house to go play with one of the 7 girls who lived there. She saw me go up the drive but then the house blocked the door, so she couldn't see if I went inside the door. She waited a few moments, and when I didn't reemerge, she believed I was inside, playing.

Well, I wasn't. I still remember that day. I sat on the stoop, thinking that Nancy would surely come home soon. I sat waiting for what seemed like forever, before I gave up. When I walked back onto the sidewalk, there was a man, balding, in his fifties, eyeglasses, in a light colored station wagon with wood panels (yes, I remember ALL of that), idling on the street in front of the house. He looked at me, said nothing, but backed up as I walked down the street.

Then, he pulled his car in the drive in front of me, blocking my path, and just stared. I started to feel weird. He pulled back out and I kept walking. He kept backing his car down the street, keeping pace with me. When we got to the next drive, he pulled in again and again, blocked my path. Never said a word. Finally, when I was right at the line between my house and the house next door, he paused in the street, held up an empty jar and said, "Hey little girl, you want some candy? Come here. I'll give you some." I didn't know what the heck was going on but I knew something was wrong because his jar was empty, for one, and he had been acting strange.

In the meantime, my mom was inside doing laundry, whistling away. Until suddenly, her head whipped up fast, her heart stopped and she gasped, "Anna." (That's me). She came running out of the house and saw me standing there, the man in the car idling at the curb and me looking scared. She yelled, "Anna! Get in the house!" I came running up. Man, she threw me in front of the t.v., and took off. She chased that guy in her little VW Bug for miles. Got his license plate before he lost her. They caught him but he said he only asked me to lift my skirt and so they let him go. (I guess you could do that in California in the 70's). He had priors for child molestation. I have no doubt that if it wasn't for my mom's instinct, I wouldn't have been allowed to live to tell a thing.

In any event, my mom has had dozens of incidents proving her strong instinct. I think it is the gift given to most mothers who love their kids.

But not all. So here's the story:

Years ago, my parents had these neighbors. Nice, middle class family with a gorgeous little baby girl. Well, they had this "friend", a single man, who they adored. They kept wanting my parents to meet him, especially my mom, who everyone loves.

So, my mom met him one day, as they were all sitting outside on the grass with the baby on a blanket. My mom sat down and chatted. The baby kept trying to crawl off the blanket. The "friend" was watching her intently and kept "grabbing" her back, and dragging her back to the middle of the blanket. He did this by grabbing in between her legs, in her crotch area. Over and over again, laughing and staring. My mom got a horrible bad vibe form him and felt immediately that something was wrong.

Later, my mom talked with the baby's mother. But when she voiced her fears that something was wrong with this guy and not to ever leave him alone with the baby, the mother was stunned and did not believe it. "No way. He's the nicest guy. I would trust him completely!" In fact, the mother was upset, kind of insulted.

See, I don't get that. If someone told me something they felt that had to do with the safety of my baby, I would not be angry. I would thank them and keep an eye out.

Anyhow, I don't know if he ever did anything to the baby or not. I do know that at some point, the "friend" wasn't coming over anymore and the neighbors never spoke of him again. I wonder if they wised up.

I guess the point of my long-winded story is that some parents do not have the instinct for danger. And poverty or youth aren't always the deciding factors in the lack of instinct. I don't know the cause, but I wish there was a class every would-be parent could take to grow that instinct. Kids are too precious to be raised without parents who can protect them from serious harm.

FrayedKnot
12-30-2011, 01:47 AM
OOOOOOkaaaayyyy...

So, in my list of stuff we still have to figure out, not including the obvious questions of poor judgement:rolleyes::silenced:


1. Does MP have a former spouse, domestic partner, baby momma, children?

2. Is there any way to sleuth the names of the men allegedly "caught" for the abuse of Aliahna in IA in 2010? (I haven't found one)

3. Is it possible that the dismissed case involving MP as the defendant in November of 2010, and in the same county in IA where the Souders/Lemmon family lived, is in any way related to what happened to Aliahna?

4. If so, was it dismissed because her parents refused to press charges?

5. If not, is there any way to find out the specifics of a case that was dismissed?

6. I now have heard that the surviving children have, in fact, NOT been removed from the home. Is this confirmed? Or is it simply that the rumors of their REMOVAL were never confirmed?

7. Under the law, do the police have to name the parents as either co-conspirators or POI's in order to keep them from skipping town? Are they free to escape jurisdiction? (Although with a case this high profile, it would be hard to really hide this time.)

8. Since LE made a statement confirming that the two other girls had NOT been examined for signs of sexual abuse, can that set both the Sherrif's Dept. and CPS up for a negligence suit brought on the the parents? (oh the effing irony:furious:)

That's all I got for now that can be asked within TOS and the realm of possibility. TIA.

Bodhi
12-30-2011, 01:48 AM
Thank you, I didn't know that TS was from a different marriage. Makes so much more sense now.


I thought I read that he was a Vietnam veteran. I'm fairly new here and can't find the links like you all can, but I know I read it somewhere.

MOO

Hi Menmo, I just want to make it clear that I don't know if JL and Amber were ever married. But JL was married, had 2 children, and divorced. Somewhere after the first 2 kids, he got divorced and had a child with Amber. I don't know which of those (divorce, 3rd child) came first.

Marnie4
12-30-2011, 01:48 AM
real dad or step dad?

Stepdad

Chris_Texas
12-30-2011, 01:49 AM
When my dad died, I could not bear to look at his things at first, especially not photos of him. I kept away from all of that. It was like a punch in the gut to see his face in a photo.

But, nothing was removed. In fact, 3 years later, I have refused to allow my mom to paint his den, even though she has painted everything else in the house. My mom eventually did give away some of his clothes to the poor, but most if it, I insisted be kept. I organized all his papers, work stuff, his writings, the most mundane things. They are all labeled and boxed and I can't bear to get rid of even the unimportant stuff.

Now I look at his photos every day and talk to him, smile at him, tell him I love him.

Perhaps the mother can't bear it right now. I do understand that. However, to want to remove it all, well, many people do do that. (My mom wanted to burn down the house when my dad died). Still, it seems odd. But maybe everything reminding her of her daughter acts like a monstrously huge, accusing finger, pointing right at her, reminding her that she is the person who gave her child to the demon who murdered and dismembered her.

Can you imagine that feeling?

This was my thought as well, or one possibility I consider plausible at any rate. The same applies to the shrine that she theoretically removed. Everyone responds to death and horror in their own way, some of us even make jokes about it occassionally, I dont think it means much.

In my opinion there is more than enough here to cause a reasonable person to question this family and even their potential involvement in this crime without this stuff.

officer'swife 2010
12-30-2011, 01:53 AM
People deal with greif differently....I have no idea how I would act if this happened to my child-God forbid it ever does, but I will say this, I could not stay close to where it happened....I'm not judging the mother whatsoever....more of this story will come out, esp about MP....

However, what the grandma said really rubbed me the wrong way...i know i've said it time and time again, but i just can't shake it......

passionflower
12-30-2011, 01:54 AM
OOOOOOkaaaayyyy...

So, in my list of stuff we still have to figure out, not including the obvious questions of poor judgement:rolleyes::silenced:


1. Does MP have a former spouse, domestic partner, baby momma, children?

2. Is there any way to sleuth the names of the men allegedly "caught" for the abuse of Aliahna in IA in 2010? (I haven't found one)

3. Is it possible that the dismissed case involving MP as the defendant in November of 2010, and in the same county in IA where the Souders/Lemmon family lived, is in any way related to what happened to Aliahna?

4. If so, was it dismissed because her parents refused to press charges?

5. If not, is there any way to find out the specifics of a case that was dismissed?

6. I now have heard that the surviving children have, in fact, NOT been removed from the home. Is this confirmed? Or is it simply that the rumors of their REMOVAL were never confirmed?

7. Under the law, do the police have to name the parents as either co-conspirators or POI's in order to keep them from skipping town? Are they free to escape jurisdiction? (Although with a case this high profile, it would be hard to really hide this time.)

8. Since LE made a statement confirming that the two other girls had NOT been examined for signs of sexual abuse, can that set both the Sherrif's Dept. and CPS up for a negligence suit brought on the the parents? (oh the effing irony:furious:)

That's all I got for now that can be asked within TOS and the realm of possibility. TIA.

Thanks this is a good list!

mahoolin
12-30-2011, 01:55 AM
So the family boxed up all of Ali's stuff to take to a storage facility? I guess the paralysis is over. Plus, I'd bet that is not all they are packing...probably gearing up for yet another move. JMO.

I find it a bit odd that all of her stuff was boxed up so quickly...especially, when the mom has all of these "health issues"

BBM
Been wondering if mom could have MS - don't they have flare-ups and sometimes take strong infusions of steroids to get back to their prior level of functioning? I knew a lady once who could walk sometimes really well, and others not at all.

Thinking back to the pic of mom with g-mom on the couch and mom has coat on just her arms - wonder if that was covering up an IV or something?

I'm a firm believer in people's privacy concerning their health, but in cases like this, it's hard not to be suspicious. It could be nothing - I think I'd need if not a wheelchair at least a very strong pair of arms to help support me at a devastating time like this. I think for suspicion to be diverted from mom though, it'd be in her best interest to explain - IMHOO

I hope they move out of that horrible place, but IMO, it's much too soon for so much activity around the house. I do hope LE "has someone" on the house and the storage unit for comings and goings. Could fill in some missing pieces about this whole strange situation.

Did we ever hear if all the children are still there, or are there current pics or video of them at the house?

neese
12-30-2011, 01:56 AM
http://www.soc.iastate.edu/soc130sec1/ChildAbuse4.pdf

snipped: Centerville, about an hour and a half drive south of Des Moines, had 1,247 children under age 18 in
2009. More than four in every 100 were subjected to abuse that year, according to a Des Moines
Register analysis of state child-welfare statistics. The city is the seat of Appanoose County.

WOW!!

passionflower
12-30-2011, 02:01 AM
My family is very sentimental, in my possession is 100 years old rocker tahn belonged to my great great uncle who died of diptheria age 20 months.
A framed drawing from school, of another great great uncle who was killed violantly by a drunk driver in 1932 at the age of 9.
My dear grandma made sure we all KNEW them. Kept their memory alive generation after generation.
My grandchildren have my father's WWII, rations, Eisenhower jacket.
Some things are heirlooms and priceless.
Not costly just love for a deceased love one.
How can things just be discarded even before a funeral?

Dr.Fessel
12-30-2011, 02:04 AM
FORT WAYNE, Ind. -- Police are trying to determine if a man suspected of killing a Fort Wayne girl could be linked to similar crimes around the country.

Investigators said they are concerned about Michael Plumadore’s past because of his apparent lack of remorse when he described 9-year-old Aliahna Lemmon’s slaying to detectives.

Plumadore was baby-sitting Lemmon and her two younger sisters at a Fort Wayne mobile home park days before she disappeared, RTV6’s Chris Proffitt reported.

http://www.theindychannel.com/news/30100727/detail.html

passionflower
12-30-2011, 02:04 AM
mom just claimed the flu. IMO if she had MS or something serious she would of used her excuse better,,,,,,,,,,JMOO

twall
12-30-2011, 02:05 AM
Can the mom and SF be arrested for neglect?

If there is proof of it. Don't worry, if LE finds enough proof for the state to charge them they will be charged. It may take a while but it will happen.

I posted this in the other thread as an example.

Jada Justice, a NW Indiana case. Jada's mother left her with her cousin and cousin's bf who she knew were drug users/dealers. Cousin killed Jada while bf held her down and watched. Then they tried to burn her body. When that didn't work they encased her in cement and threw her is a swamp.
The boyfriend took a plea deal and testified against Jada's killer. She was found guilty and sent off to prison. Jada's mother was then charged with neglect. I bet she didn't see that one coming since 2 years had passed since Jada's death.

http://abclocal.go.com/wls/story?sec...cal&id=8269644

gitana1
12-30-2011, 02:05 AM
My family is very sentimental, in my possession is 100 years old rocker tahn belonged to my great great uncle who died of diptheria age 20 months.
A framed drawing from school, of another great great uncle who was killed violantly by a drunk driver in 1932 at the age of 9.
My dear grandma made sure we all KNEW them. Kept their memory alive generation after generation.
My grandchildren have my father's WWII, rations, Eisenhower jacket.
Some things are heirlooms and priceless.
Not costly just love for a deceased love one.
How can things just be discarded even before a funeral?

Well, the article didn't say they were being discarded and there was a quote from someone stating they were putting the things in storage.

I hope they are not being discarded. The mother may really regret that if she did, as time went on.

Kat
12-30-2011, 02:05 AM
In reference to flag on coffin at funeral for JEL.

I looked at the obit. It doesn't say he was retired military. It says he served in the AF during the Vietnam War.

He could have done one tour, he could have done 5. But it only says he served not that he retired.

He may also have never served overseas during the Vietnam War, my own FIL was stateside during the whole war....no biggie. He's still a vet.

That is why he had the flag IMHO, because he was a vet. The rules recently changed and they can be found here:


http://www.military.com/benefits/content/burial-and-memorial/military-funeral-honors.html

The VA hospital would have provided him with medical care but he probably had a co-pay (depends on if he sustained a lifelong injury while serving that required him to have ongoing medical treatment for that injury (including agent orange exposure) for life, if he did---no copay for that).

He more than likely got the reimbursement benefit for burial costs (up to 2 grand) and a headstone (up to 3 hundred dollars). Flag.

When you talk about the Dependency and Indemnity Compensation that is a benefit for the current spouse of a vet and their minor children (I'm not sure if it goes above the age of 18, some benefits do). But---the caveat of that is that the vet has to have died a service connected death. Leading us back to was his cause of death caused by his service in the Vietnam war.

We just don't have that info. But IMHO he got the burial, headstone and flag and that's probably it.

This post is so far off topic I hope a mod doesn't delete it. JMHO

passionflower
12-30-2011, 02:06 AM
FORT WAYNE, Ind. -- Police are trying to determine if a man suspected of killing a Fort Wayne girl could be linked to similar crimes around the country.

Investigators said they are concerned about Michael Plumadore’s past because of his apparent lack of remorse when he described 9-year-old Aliahna Lemmon’s slaying to detectives.

Plumadore was baby-sitting Lemmon and her two younger sisters at a Fort Wayne mobile home park days before she disappeared, RTV6’s Chris Proffitt reported.

http://www.theindychannel.com/news/30100727/detail.html

I have a feeling and it is very bad at the moment.............BBM