PDA

View Full Version : IN - Aliahna Maroney Lemmon, 9, Fort Wayne, 23 Dec 2011 - #5


Pages : [1] 2 3

beach
12-31-2011, 05:38 PM
Please continue here.

Please remember that discussion of how this young girl ended up in that trailer is relevent to this case. The family is discussable to that end - but there is to be NO BASHING or TRASHING. We still do not know all the circumstances about why Aliahna was with this <modsnip>.

Also remember there is NO NAME CALLING, not even of the perp. I know that is difficult sometimes but we can do it.

Prayers for this little one, may she rest in peace and may her sisters find safety and be allowed to grow up. :(


MEDIA REFERENCE THREAD


Thread 1

Thread 2 (http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=7468775&posted=1#post7468775)
Thread 3

Thread 4

mysteriew
12-31-2011, 05:51 PM
I'm just starting to read on this one but I am curious. In this article:

The woman said Plumadore, 39, was endangering her daughter by “stalking her, sending her explicit sexual text messages and photographs,” according to the documents. She said Plumadore sent pictures of exposed genitalia and messages telling the girl he “wanted to get her pregnant.”
http://www.news-sentinel.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20111231/NEWS/111239935

The court excused itself for not filing a restraining order because the living arrangements didn't meet the criteria. (Don't know but just guessing, if there was a court order ordering the girl into a weekend visitation situation at her father's then I don't know why that wouldn't count as a part time residence.)

Why didn't the court order that a criminal investigation be done? The girl was 13. There were allegations that he had sent porn to the kid. In most states that is illegal. And surely they could have found some other charges.... importuning, solicitation or something!
__________________

Bravo
12-31-2011, 05:55 PM
My heart breaks for Aliahna and all the other children I will come to know or never know who endure such unspeakable acts. I am in awe of the posters who have spoken to their own childhood abuse. Thank You for breaking the cycle :rose:

jjenny
12-31-2011, 05:56 PM
I don't know why there weren't criminal charges either. What is alleged to have been done to a 13 year old certainly doesn't sound legal.

beach
12-31-2011, 05:58 PM
Attention please. :)

I love the reference lists. Thank you! All these people seem so intertwined - ex's, currents, formers, step, biological... yikes.

This is the thing - we can't use FULL NAMES of anyone not named in the MSM, released by LE or come forward on their own. HOWEVER, I agree that a lot of these characters with records, particularly the RSOs, could prove to be relevant.

So here is the deal -

Identify then by using acronyms. Use initials. When there are duplicate first/last name initials, add another letter. (e.g., KK, KtK, KsK) and cross-reference the intials identifying them as to their relationship to the the perp or to Aliahana - (e.g., former brother-in-law, ex-stepdad, etc...)

That is as far as we need to go until we have further evidence or statements. Keep in mind some of these people may be completely innocent. I would rather err on the side of protecting the innocent. It would be irresponsible of us to permit someone's name be dragged into this ugly, horrid mess who has turned their life around, kwim?


Please bump this post as needed for those who might miss it. :tyou:

beach
12-31-2011, 06:04 PM
Bringing over Amanda's Case Archive link. :)

Case archive for Aliahna Lemmon, with pics, vids and articles saved:

http://s296.photobucket.com/albums/mm166/crankycrankerson/Aliahna%20Lemmon%20%20-IN-/

Cubby
12-31-2011, 06:13 PM
Carried over from the previous thread.


Originally posted by CharlestonGal:

It doesn't surprise me at all that a retired AF member would behave this way. I'm retired AF myself and for 3 years of my career I worked in a federal prison with incarcerated sex offenders - ALL of them active duty military at the time they committed their sex offense; most of them child molesters. Hundreds of them. Active duty child molesters.

It doesn't surprise me even a little bit that stepdad is retired AF and allowed his children and/or stepchildren to be exposed to this lifestyle. We (Americans) like to think our military and military veterans are somehow above all the lowlifes found in situations like Aliahna's, but they simply aren't. They aren't much different than the population in general - some good, some bad, some monsters.

In my 22 year active duty career (in social services) I worked thousands of cases of spouse abuse, child abuse, rape, child molestation, drug abuse, you name it, all perpetrated by active duty military people.

Many military people and veterans ARE heroes. Probably even most. Retired stepdad in this case is obviously not one of them.


thank you for bringing this up and posting your experience CharlstonGal.

The following is SPECULATION only. I have feared the possibility that Step Dad may have been a liason between civilian and military sicko's. I simply can't find any other explanation to explain his actions, or lack of.

JMO

concentric
12-31-2011, 06:23 PM
Plumadore's online stalking of the 13-yr. old is the same thing that the "To Catch a Predator" program with Chris Hansen documents all of the time. And, there are plenty of "military" types in the mix.

TexasCharm
12-31-2011, 06:44 PM
Just hopping over to the new digs...

sherryk
12-31-2011, 06:45 PM
This poor little Angel never stood a chance... the entire family, step family, God mothers, fathers, x husbands, molestors, they are all embedded in each other it is pathetic. Who in the world could she even had gone to that she trust.

It was mentioned in a previous post somthing to the extent of a porn ring.. I am thinking that poster may very well be onto somthing... Mom moving everything to storage.. what is she hiding.. maybe computer disc, child porn movies somthing to that extent.

There has got to be way more to this as far as who knew what, others that were involved or had knowlege of previous abuse, abuse of the siblings.. there is way, way, way more to it this... what sick people in this world.

concentric
12-31-2011, 06:49 PM
This poor little Angel never stood a chance... the entire family, step family, God mothers, fathers, x husbands, molestors, they are all embedded in each other it is pathetic. Who in the world could she even had gone to that she trust.

It was mentioned in a previous post somthing to the extent of a porn ring.. I am thinking that poster may very well be onto somthing... Mom moving everything to storage.. what is she hiding.. maybe computer disc, child porn movies somthing to that extent.

There has got to be way more to this as far as who knew what, others that were involved or had knowlege of previous abuse, abuse of the siblings.. there is way, way, way more to it this... what sick people in this world.
----------
That is why I questioned what Plumadore and the grandfather would discuss/watch during all of those hours of "care."

yllek
12-31-2011, 06:58 PM
One thing that always dismays and angers me is when couples in bitter divorce and custody battles falsely accuse the spouse of sexual abuse of the child(ren). It seems to have become more of a trend, imo. It's among the worst things that could happen to a child and among the worst things that an adult can be accused of doing. Imo, it hampers the progress that has been made in making victims more aware that it's okay to speak out and assuring them that they bear no shame in the eyes of society; their victimizers do.

I don't know the nature of the relationship between the mother and father of the 13 year old stalked by MP, but I do wonder if authorities had to consider that this could be yet another case of one ex-spouse trying to hurt the other in the worst way possible and keep the child from visitation. In this case, it appears that the claim was fully investigated. I wonder if the mother decided not to push and pursue it at a criminal level because visitation was cut off, or if MP convinced one or both parents that he was not a threat.

IDK, it's just frustrating. I think society has done a reasonable job in the last decade or more of better understanding the volume and depth of sexual abuse, child abuse and rape. A message has been sent loudly and clearly that "it's not your fault!". Many victims have stopped feeling like they are hiding a dark shameful secret and instead realized they are brave survivors who can help others. Then, as it becomes less taboo to admit that you were a victim, we suddenly see a growing segment of the population who is willing to make false claims in order to hurt someone, get what they want at all costs, or bilk money from someone. It's a real disservice to all of the true victims who, imo, sometimes have to fight harder to prove their case because others are so willing to make false claims.

Just venting... I am thankful that the 13 year old is alive today and wish it was more clear why a criminal investigation wasn't launched. I wish Ali had survived MP as well. I am thankful that her sisters did; possibly due to Ali's sacrifice. I hope the loss of Ali changes how some of these cases are pursued and tracked. The custodial parent of a child who authorities have concluded has been sexually abused twice before reaching the age of 10 should be monitored by CPS. If they cross state lines, the case should follow them. I know CPS is overloaded and it would involve infrastructure improvements to make it a reality, but there is no investment more critical than that of our children, imo.

ALL JMO...

ssa
12-31-2011, 07:05 PM
I'm just starting to read on this one but I am curious. In this article:



The court excused itself for not filing a restraining order because the living arrangements didn't meet the criteria. (Don't know but just guessing, if there was a court order ordering the girl into a weekend visitation situation at her father's then I don't know why that wouldn't count as a part time residence.)

Why didn't the court order that a criminal investigation be done? The girl was 13. There were allegations that he had sent porn to the kid. In most states that is illegal. And surely they could have found some other charges.... importuning, solicitation or something!
__________________


I share your frustration and your questions.

Iowa law provides for “civil protection orders” only when the alleged perp and victim have a pre-existing intimate relationship, such as past or present marriage, domestic partnership, etc. In essence, civil protective orders are available in Iowa only in cases of “domestic violence.”

See www.iowacasa.org/aspx/legislativeinformationandlaws/legislativepriorities.aspx, which says:

"Iowa law currently does not provide for a civil protective order for victims of sexual assault. Unless a victim of sexual assault has some type of relationship with the perpetrator that falls within the domestic relations definitions for purposes of establishing domestic violence, that victim cannot get a protective order in the civil law system. If a sexual assault perpetrator has been arrested and charged the victim is eligible for a criminal protective order.

Iowa CASA would like to see a civil protective order in Iowa law for victims of sexual assault, regardless of who the perpetrator is. Additionally, we hear repeatedly from clients that the Department of Human Services will require a parent or legal guardian to get a protective order against an offender who has perpetrated on a child. But unless that parent’s relationship to the offender falls within the domestic relations definitions the parent cannot go to court and get this. This in turn places that parent in fear of having a DHS founded report against him or her for not doing what DHS required."

So under Iowa law, the 13 year old girl's mom could not get a civil protective order because she did not have the requisite relationship with MP.

An article posted at the end of the previous thread says that the judge who dismissed the mother's application for a civil protective order told her to take the case to the police or to an attorney, which Mom apparently did not do. Given the facts in this case (MP sending the girl photos of his genitals, etc.), I am really surprised that the judge did not personally refer this matter to the police. The facts alleged by the mother present a prima facie case for assault charges against MP - under Iowa law, "assault" is defined as any action that leads a person to believe that she is at risk of unwanted touching, bodily injury, death, etc. No actual touching or bodily injury is required. If the judge or the mother had taken this case to the police, MP's assaults on the 13 year old would have been stopped and Ali might still be alive.

I wonder if Iowa has "mandated reporters" for child abuse and if judges are among the mandated reporters? I hope so, and I hope this judge will face some consequences for not referring such an egregious case of sexual assault against a child to the police.

menmo
12-31-2011, 07:06 PM
As for AS being retired military is there any proof of such or just his claim on FB? As for me for some reason I'm just not buying it.

MOO

ssa
12-31-2011, 07:15 PM
See www.iowacasa.org/aspx/legislativeinformationandlaws/legislativepriorities.aspx, which says:

The link to the CASA website looks good when I preview this, but shows up with missing pieces in the actual post. Let me try again:

www.iowacasa.org/aspx/legislativeinformationandlaws/legislativepriorities.aspx

If it still isn't right, then please go to www.iowacasa.org and search for "protective orders" in the website's "legislative priorities" subheading.

ssa
12-31-2011, 07:21 PM
See www.iowacasa.org/aspx/legislativeinformationandlaws/legislativepriorities.aspx, which says:

The link to the CASA website looks good when I preview this, but shows up with missing pieces in the actual post. Let me try again:

www.iowacasa.org/aspx/legislativeinformationandlaws/legislativepriorities.aspx

If it still isn't right, then please go to www.iowacasa.org and search for "protective orders" in the website's "legislative priorities" subheading.

tiff07
12-31-2011, 07:26 PM
As for AS being retired military is there any proof of such or just his claim on FB? As for me for some reason I'm just not buying it.

MOO

Neither am I. If you google it there is an AS who really did serve, he is 74 years old. I can't find this AS as having served except by his own assertion.

hkhart
12-31-2011, 07:26 PM
There are pictures of his retirement on his myspace page.

carole
12-31-2011, 07:27 PM
As for AS being retired military is there any proof of such or just his claim on FB? As for me for some reason I'm just not buying it.

MOO

BBM

He is retired military. His myspace has pictures of his retirement ceremony.

Dr.Fessel
12-31-2011, 07:29 PM
There are pictures of his retirement on his myspace page.

Welcome HKHART! :woohoo::woohoo:

carole
12-31-2011, 07:30 PM
Neither am I. If you google it there is an AS who really did serve, he is 74 years old. I can't find this AS as having served except by his own assertion.

Google doesn't have every piece of information on everybody or everything.

mysteriew
12-31-2011, 07:30 PM
Details of the previous sexual assault
http://www.indianasnewscenter.com/news/local/Aliahna-Sexually-Assaulted-in-Iowa-136476378.html


http://www.examiner.com/crime-in-national/report-slain-girl-aliahna-lemmon-sexually-assaulted-at-age-of-7-iowa

tiff07
12-31-2011, 07:32 PM
There are pictures of his retirement on his myspace page.

Welcome! And a huge thank you for clearing that up. Facts are great.

tiff07
12-31-2011, 07:34 PM
Google doesn't have every piece of information on everybody or everything.

Very true Carole. I stand corrected. AS did serve in the military as was kindly pointed out to me by another poster here.

hkhart
12-31-2011, 07:35 PM
And to remember, per DS (step-grandfather), Aliahna was abused on two separate occasions... "Story said the people who were responsible were caught by police, but he had no other details."

bam
12-31-2011, 07:39 PM
Oh my goodness! LM just sent me a request to play Bingo Bash! Then a K.S. ,who was friend of Tarah's ,sent me a request because I posted on Justice for Aliahna. Says Tarah set her that FB page up because of the move to keep their daughter's in touch.She lives in Hagerstown, Maryland.

twall
12-31-2011, 07:43 PM
Last updated: December 31, 2011 6:59 p.m.

Face to face with Michael Plumadore

On Christmas Day – before Plumadore had told investigators they could find Aliahna's body parts in his freezer and in the trash bin of a nearby business – I sat down with him in an aging but well-kept mobile home, where Aliahna's deceased grandfather used to live.

"I have a real massive and bad temper, but I've kept it in check because of Ailey," he said, using Aliahna's nickname.

However, he acknowledged losing his cool while investigators were interviewing him.

"When the FBI and stuff like that did an investigation, they tried that good cop, bad cop. They tried to put me in the category of an evil person," he said with his Southern drawl. "I kind of snapped and went off and jumped out my chair and had words."

Plumadore said he eventually calmed down and offered to let investigators sample his DNA and administer a polygraph test. He said he also gave them his cellphone without hesitation.

much more at link

http://www.journalgazette.net/article/20111231/LOCAL/111239903

SuziQ
12-31-2011, 07:47 PM
One thing that always dismays and angers me is when couples in bitter divorce and custody battles falsely accuse the spouse of sexual abuse of the child(ren). It seems to have become more of a trend, imo. It's among the worst things that could happen to a child and among the worst things that an adult can be accused of doing. Imo, it hampers the progress that has been made in making victims more aware that it's okay to speak out and assuring them that they bear no shame in the eyes of society; their victimizers do.

I don't know the nature of the relationship between the mother and father of the 13 year old stalked by MP, but I do wonder if authorities had to consider that this could be yet another case of one ex-spouse trying to hurt the other in the worst way possible and keep the child from visitation. In this case, it appears that the claim was fully investigated. I wonder if the mother decided not to push and pursue it at a criminal level because visitation was cut off, or if MP convinced one or both parents that he was not a threat.

IDK, it's just frustrating. I think society has done a reasonable job in the last decade or more of better understanding the volume and depth of sexual abuse, child abuse and rape. A message has been sent loudly and clearly that "it's not your fault!". Many victims have stopped feeling like they are hiding a dark shameful secret and instead realized they are brave survivors who can help others. Then, as it becomes less taboo to admit that you were a victim, we suddenly see a growing segment of the population who is willing to make false claims in order to hurt someone, get what they want at all costs, or bilk money from someone. It's a real disservice to all of the true victims who, imo, sometimes have to fight harder to prove their case because others are so willing to make false claims.

Just venting... I am thankful that the 13 year old is alive today and wish it was more clear why a criminal investigation wasn't launched. I wish Ali had survived MP as well. I am thankful that her sisters did; possibly due to Ali's sacrifice. I hope the loss of Ali changes how some of these cases are pursued and tracked. The custodial parent of a child who authorities have concluded has been sexually abused twice before reaching the age of 10 should be monitored by CPS. If they cross state lines, the case should follow them. I know CPS is overloaded and it would involve infrastructure improvements to make it a reality, but there is no investment more critical than that of our children, imo.

ALL JMO...

Well there should have been proof of a crime in the sexting pics.

matou
12-31-2011, 07:51 PM
Last updated: December 31, 2011 6:59 p.m.

Face to face with Michael Plumadore

On Christmas Day – before Plumadore had told investigators they could find Aliahna's body parts in his freezer and in the trash bin of a nearby business – I sat down with him in an aging but well-kept mobile home, where Aliahna's deceased grandfather used to live.

"I have a real massive and bad temper, but I've kept it in check because of Ailey," he said, using Aliahna's nickname.

However, he acknowledged losing his cool while investigators were interviewing him.

"When the FBI and stuff like that did an investigation, they tried that good cop, bad cop. They tried to put me in the category of an evil person," he said with his Southern drawl. "I kind of snapped and went off and jumped out my chair and had words."

Plumadore said he eventually calmed down and offered to let investigators sample his DNA and administer a polygraph test. He said he also gave them his cellphone without hesitation.

much more at link

http://www.journalgazette.net/article/20111231/LOCAL/111239903

Are you flipping kidding??? This article has me enraged. I hate this man.

concentric
12-31-2011, 07:53 PM
I've read where Plumadore said the grandfather was like a father figure to him. Wonder what that means? Some kind of mentor?

Helenstreet
12-31-2011, 07:54 PM
As for AS being retired military is there any proof of such or just his claim on FB? As for me for some reason I'm just not buying it.

MOO

There are pictures posted on his MySpace page of his retirement party from the Air Force.

twall
12-31-2011, 07:55 PM
Are you flipping kidding??? This article has me enraged. I hate this man.

Me too, especially this-He said, "It would take a coward to do something to a child."

I should have put a warning in my post to have a barf bag handy! :sick:

Donjeta
12-31-2011, 07:57 PM
Plumadore, 39, showed me a small drawing Aliahna had made on a scrap of paper. It was a heart, and inside was written, "I love u Miek."

"That's one way I spell your name," Plumadore said Aliahna told him. He said this with a smile, the way a proud uncle would.
http://www.journalgazette.net/article/20111231/LOCAL/111239903

What a sick, sick, sick and evil [unusual person]! JMO

It makes me nauseous to think that he would proudly display a drawing like that knowing that he had her head in the freezer.

passionflower
12-31-2011, 07:58 PM
He said Aliahna's sisters were asleep on the floor, and Aliahna was sleeping in her grandfather's recliner.

"I brushed the hair back off her forehead and gave her a kiss and sat down and smoked my cigar, and I went to sleep about 6:30," he said. "I sleep on the couch. You know, they're not my kids. I'm not gonna sleep in the same bed as someone else's kids. And they all want to sleep together, so we all just sleep in the livingroom and watch tv together
http://www.journalgazette.net/article/20111231/LOCAL/111239903
you must read all!

matou
12-31-2011, 07:59 PM
I'm going to have to beleive that everything MP stated in that interview is a bunch of BS. JMO

concentric
12-31-2011, 08:00 PM
Other posters here said that the cigar was probably "celebratory."

And I think that is the case. I think it was celebratory on many levels for this perp.

Sparklin
12-31-2011, 08:00 PM
Bringing over Amanda's Case Archive link. :)

http://s296.photobucket.com/albums/mm166/crankycrankerson/Aliahna%20Lemmon%20%20-IN-/

There is a picture in here...#112 with LM and TS -- TS looks so much like KKM, DM's exe wife.

passionflower
12-31-2011, 08:01 PM
Just wondering who and how MP got that big scar down his head and face!

Charlie09
12-31-2011, 08:03 PM
How many children has he taken to another state in the time it was discovered they were missing? He is evil to the core...
My concern...if there is military people involved, if this is as large as it appears it could be, we may never know about it - I would think the accused will end up dead before secrets are exposed.

Madilu
12-31-2011, 08:03 PM
I have only seen 2 pics in media of TS. It was one in a wheelchair at the vigil, and one on a couch smoking a cigarette. I had the impression from those two pics that she was in her forties -also it appears she has had a full mouth extraction judging from the shape of the oral/maxillofacial region.

Then I was looking today at pics from LyleM spaceface profile and saw pics of her preggers ---hot sure what year...but...maybe about 5 years ago?

That's a pretty dramatic decline in physical status in such a short time -I wonder if she does meth or something. Also, her spaceface profile says she is 28? How can that be possible? Recent media pics, she looks in her 40's. Just so confusing...

Noway
12-31-2011, 08:03 PM
Knowing what he did, it's hard to read those articles and accept the things he said without being creeped out. JMO

passionflower
12-31-2011, 08:03 PM
Plumadore even admitted to crimes in his own past. "I'm not an angel by any means," he said but added: "I don't hurt children. I don't hurt animals."

[unbelieveable liar!

Donjeta
12-31-2011, 08:06 PM
http://s296.photobucket.com/albums/m...mon%20%20-IN-/

There is a picture in here...#112 with LM and TS -- TS looks so much like KKM, DM's exe wife.


The link just takes me to the photobucket starting page.

Melanie
12-31-2011, 08:07 PM
oh my goodness! Lm just sent me a request to play bingo bash! Then a k.s. ,who was friend of tarah's ,sent me a request because i posted on justice for aliahna. Says tarah set her that fb page up because of the move to keep their daughter's in touch.she lives in hagerstown, maryland.

wth??? Omg!!!

passionflower
12-31-2011, 08:08 PM
http://s296.photobucket.com/albums/m...mon%20%20-IN-/

There is a picture in here...#112 with LM and TS -- TS looks so much like KKM, DM's exe wife.

how do I see it? just took me to a main page, TIA

Helenstreet
12-31-2011, 08:09 PM
Last updated: December 31, 2011 6:59 p.m.

Face to face with Michael Plumadore

On Christmas Day – before Plumadore had told investigators they could find Aliahna's body parts in his freezer and in the trash bin of a nearby business – I sat down with him in an aging but well-kept mobile home, where Aliahna's deceased grandfather used to live.

"I have a real massive and bad temper, but I've kept it in check because of Ailey," he said, using Aliahna's nickname.

However, he acknowledged losing his cool while investigators were interviewing him.

"When the FBI and stuff like that did an investigation, they tried that good cop, bad cop. They tried to put me in the category of an evil person," he said with his Southern drawl. "I kind of snapped and went off and jumped out my chair and had words."

Plumadore said he eventually calmed down and offered to let investigators sample his DNA and administer a polygraph test. He said he also gave them his cellphone without hesitation.

much more at link

http://www.journalgazette.net/article/20111231/LOCAL/111239903

We have just heard from the face of evil. What a sick, cold, and calculating monster. May his soul rot in hell for eternity.

Noway
12-31-2011, 08:10 PM
How many children has he taken to another state in the time it was discovered they were missing? He is evil to the core...
My concern...if there is military people involved, if this is as large as it appears it could be, we may never know about it - I would think the accused will end up dead before secrets are exposed.

Maybe the things he said while not true in Aliahna's case, were true for other victims of his massive temper. (eta: except the part about tears; I don't believe that he ever cried tears for Aliahna or anyone else.)



fyi for Amanda's case file for various cases
http://s296.photobucket.com/albums/mm166/crankycrankerson/

For Aliahna
http://s296.photobucket.com/albums/mm166/crankycrankerson/Aliahna%20Lemmon%20%20-IN-/

Caligram
12-31-2011, 08:11 PM
Gutsy creep, wasn't he. Well, I hope he loses that confident pose quickly. I hope he becomes fearful when he realizes that not many people admire him, with the exception of Aliahna's family members. I hope that when he has to show up in court next week he will be so afraid that he will wet his pants. I hope that fear remains with him, forever.

Pugnolia
12-31-2011, 08:11 PM
~also from the article~

He told about how on Christmas Eve a police dog seemed to follow Aliahna's scent to the school bus stop. "That's why I got my hopes up, and when it wound up being nothing, I mean, it just crushed me again," he said. "It seems like every time you hear something that might be positive, you think you've cried all your tears and then more show up."

So. Very. Disgusting.

Noway
12-31-2011, 08:12 PM
how do I see it? just took me to a main page, TIA

http://s296.photobucket.com/albums/mm166/crankycrankerson/

beach
12-31-2011, 08:14 PM
The link just takes me to the photobucket starting page.

how do I see it? just took me to a main page, TIA


I fixed the link in Sparkin's post.

Here is the direct link. (http://s296.photobucket.com/albums/mm166/crankycrankerson/Aliahna%20Lemmon%20%20-IN-/)

Melanie
12-31-2011, 08:17 PM
Are you flipping kidding??? This article has me enraged. I hate this man.

Me too! Especially with mommy and grandmammy sitting there while he said:

"I brushed the hair back off her forehead and gave her a kiss and sat down and smoked my cigar, and I went to sleep about 6:30," he said. "I sleep on the couch. You know, they're not my kids. I'm not gonna sleep in the same bed as someone else's kids. And they all want to sleep together, so we all just sleep in the living room and watch TV together."

:furious:

If you listen to what he says, the exact opposite probably happened! Meaning he more than likely slept in bed with one or more of the children!!!

yllek
12-31-2011, 08:24 PM
Well there should have been proof of a crime in the sexting pics.

I totally agree SuziQ, that's what's frustrating to me. For some reason a criminal case wasn't pursued, though a crime was clearly committed. I don't know if the sexting pics were kept or not. I don't know if the mom was advised that it would be a hard case to prove and a difficult situation to put her daughter through, or if mom reached some kind of agreement in terms of limited visitation or assurance that MP would not be there, or exactly what. I just wish it hadn't stopped there.

For some reason, family/civil court advised mom to pursue a criminal case and something deterred her from following through. I wish the civil court saw fewer false complaints so that they could focus more on encouraging and helping parents in these circumstances to pursue criminal recourse.

concentric
12-31-2011, 08:25 PM
Plumadore is probably revelling in his ability to be deceptive. That is the very heart of evil.

Noway
12-31-2011, 08:25 PM
Such an experienced liar -- able to convince them all with the right touches of distress -- it really makes me wonder about other victims.

sherryk
12-31-2011, 08:29 PM
Other posters here said that the cigar was probably "celebratory."

And I think that is the case. I think it was celebratory on many levels for this perp.

I think it most certainly was a "celebratory" cigar. If he needed an excuse to go to the store to prove where he was for that brief few moments.. then why not buy a soda, snack or somthing to that extent.. but to buy and smoke a cigar.. if I am correct in the timeline, the cigar would of been after he dismembered her body a few hours after.. yes I think it was to celebrate.


Does anyone know anything about where MP comes from or family he has? I have read very little about him other than he seems to be a drifter of some sorts and a child killer.

bam
12-31-2011, 08:29 PM
I suggest to all to look at myspace accounts for those who are involved to see there is many interlocking relationships. Wonder how Tarah got involved with current husband for he was with someone else in retirement pics. Also, big change of appearance for T.S. Suggest people look at Faces of Meth to see how this drug affects appearance of people quickly. I'm not saying Tarah is on Meth but just looking at filthiness is most of friends appearances and homes I'm not discounting it either.

Filly
12-31-2011, 08:30 PM
wth??? Omg!!!

Mel, I said the same exact thing out loud.

Naw, best not to be playing Bingo with strangers. bam stay safe.

Noway
12-31-2011, 08:30 PM
He did say one thing I agreed with when he called himself a coward.

twall
12-31-2011, 08:35 PM
I suggest to all to look at myspace accounts for those who are involved to see there is many interlocking relationships. Wonder how Tarah got involved with current husband for he was with someone else in retirement pics. Also, big change of appearance for T.S. Suggest people look at Faces of Meth to see how this drug affects appearance of people quickly. I'm not saying Tarah is on Meth but just looking at filthiness is most of friends appearances and homes I'm not discounting it either.

That is Tarah with AS in the retirement photos. I didn't think it was her when I first looked at them but compare the tats to other photos of her on his page.

bam
12-31-2011, 08:37 PM
Lol! I don't play online games!
Mel, I said the same exact thing out loud.

Naw, best not to be playing Bingo with strangers. bam stay safe.

bam
12-31-2011, 08:45 PM
So I see A.S. retired from AirForce. Do we have timelines when Tarah was with L.M. , D.M. and A.S. Thought this would help to see where their are links with people.

concentric
12-31-2011, 08:46 PM
I think it most certainly was a "celebratory" cigar. If he needed an excuse to go to the store to prove where he was for that brief few moments.. then why not buy a soda, snack or somthing to that extent.. but to buy and smoke a cigar.. if I am correct in the timeline, the cigar would of been after he dismembered her body a few hours after.. yes I think it was to celebrate.


Does anyone know anything about where MP comes from or family he has? I have read very little about him other than he seems to be a drifter of some sorts and a child killer.
-----------
The word celebrity seems to be derived from the word celebration.

Other posters here have said that it may be a bid for that, in addition to other reasons.

jjenny
12-31-2011, 08:47 PM
That interview is very creepy, because I presume at the time of the interview the child's head was in his freezer, while he was telling reporter how he gave her a kiss on the forehead. I don't think it can get much creepier than that.
Yikes.

melissasmom
12-31-2011, 08:52 PM
I suggest to all to look at myspace accounts for those who are involved to see there is many interlocking relationships. Wonder how Tarah got involved with current husband for he was with someone else in retirement pics. Also, big change of appearance for T.S. Suggest people look at Faces of Meth to see how this drug affects appearance of people quickly. I'm not saying Tarah is on Meth but just looking at filthiness is most of friends appearances and homes I'm not discounting it either.

Well, bam, I have to say that was my first thought also when I saw the older picture of Tarah. There is SOMETHING going on there, and I think Faces of Meth shows that decline quite well.

Slightly O/T, but not really: I work with a girl who has been using meth for about, oh, I would say 6 months or so, from what I can tell. The teeth are one of the first things to show the effects. Her teeth were not great to start with, but now I truly can't even look at her when she talks to me. Her teeth are literally crumbling away, it is disgusting. She is 23 yrs old, and when I first met her she looked that age. Now she looks about 35, at least.

octobermoon
12-31-2011, 09:01 PM
I have no words left for this "mother"

from the article


Aliahna's mother, her grandmother and her grandmother's husband were with us, too.

passionflower
12-31-2011, 09:06 PM
After viewing many photos of the mother, she sure did let herself go.
Something is terribly wrong here. What was her marriage like also.
How long does it take to loose your teeth?
Can drugs (meth) make you paralized? say in withdrawal?

twall
12-31-2011, 09:09 PM
Just wondering who and how MP got that big scar down his head and face!

I wonder that too. I keep thinking he is going to claim he has a brain injury and go for a insanity defense. Here is a Ft. Wayne case from 7 yrs. ago that went that route. It will really tick you off, it makes my blood boil every time I think about what this woman did to her children and how little punishment she received. IMO she was not having a brief psychotic episode, she was a spiteful #$^*! just like you know who! And CPS was involved in the case before Brieana's death. They knew how she treated her children but did nothing about it! She even had the nerve to fight Brieana's father on where Brieana would be laid to rest. Thankfully the judge ruled in favor of her father.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1336621/posts

Here is her sentence for the reckless homicide conviction. After her release from prison she kept violating her probation. The same prosecutors handled this case that are in charge of MP's case. And Karen Richards' website says she is such a strong advocate for children-HA! I have never been impressed with her.

COUNT 01: DEFENDANT SENTENCED TO THE INDIANA DEPARTMENT OF CORRECTION FOR A PERIOD OF 8 YEARS; 3 YEARS SUSPENDED. PROBATION 3YEARS. DEFENDANT ASSESSED COURT COSTS. DEFENDANT IS GRANTED CREDIT FOR 265 DAYS SERVED IN JAIL.

Sorry for the rant, I just do not want to see another case go the way Brieana's did! It makes me :furious: !! I am going to step away now and go make dessert for a family dinner tomorrow.

bam
12-31-2011, 09:12 PM
I have a relative was on Meth> Spent 4 years in prison. He detoxed off the stuff in my home after hitting rock bottom. It does affect your teeth. He had to get dentures. Also, your skin dehydrates from the chemicals> Not a pretty picture. He has been clean from Meth for 7 years and works full time as well as school.

Dr.Fessel
12-31-2011, 09:13 PM
That is one of the most disturbing things I have ever read. I am heading over to hug my granddaughters right now.

Etilema
12-31-2011, 09:31 PM
~also from the article~

He told about how on Christmas Eve a police dog seemed to follow Aliahna's scent to the school bus stop. "That's why I got my hopes up, and when it wound up being nothing, I mean, it just crushed me again," he said. "It seems like every time you hear something that might be positive, you think you've cried all your tears and then more show up."

So. Very. Disgusting.

Got his hopes up that something would lead the investigation away from him.

bam
12-31-2011, 09:44 PM
Has anyone found Usernames or email addresses for Plumadore? Would be curious to see what forums or websites he has posted on.

TorisMom003
12-31-2011, 09:48 PM
Has anyone noticed that in picture 14 of the case archive that there appears to be alot of home made VHS tapes behind Aliahna? I'm not sure who's home the picture was taken in but I sure hope that LE and/or FBI has looked at all of the photos and are trying to find all of those videos.

http://s296.photobucket.com/albums/mm166/crankycrankerson/Aliahna%20Lemmon%20%20-IN-/?action=view&current=a5.jpg

billisbobby
12-31-2011, 09:55 PM
Has anyone noticed that in picture 14 of the case archive that there appears to be alot of home made VHS tapes behind Aliahna? I'm not sure who's home the picture was taken in but I sure hope that LE and/or FBI has looked at all of the photos and are trying to find all of those videos.

http://s296.photobucket.com/albums/mm166/crankycrankerson/Aliahna%20Lemmon%20%20-IN-/?action=view&current=a5.jpg
Good eyes TorisMom003! Does Aliahna look like she had her eye brows shaped? Is she wearing blue eye shadow? I can't tell but it looks that way to me. imoo

JustJax
12-31-2011, 09:56 PM
Has anyone noticed that in picture 14 of the case archive that there appears to be alot of home made VHS tapes behind Aliahna? I'm not sure who's home the picture was taken in but I sure hope that LE and/or FBI has looked at all of the photos and are trying to find all of those videos.

http://s296.photobucket.com/albums/mm166/crankycrankerson/Aliahna%20Lemmon%20%20-IN-/?action=view&current=a5.jpg
Hopefully the FBI has possession of everything that was packed up and carted out of Tarah's. They all belong behind bars...JMOFWIW.

ClaireNC
12-31-2011, 10:02 PM
One thing that always dismays and angers me is when couples in bitter divorce and custody battles falsely accuse the spouse of sexual abuse of the child(ren). It seems to have become more of a trend, imo. It's among the worst things that could happen to a child and among the worst things that an adult can be accused of doing. Imo, it hampers the progress that has been made in making victims more aware that it's okay to speak out and assuring them that they bear no shame in the eyes of society; their victimizers do.

I don't know the nature of the relationship between the mother and father of the 13 year old stalked by MP, but I do wonder if authorities had to consider that this could be yet another case of one ex-spouse trying to hurt the other in the worst way possible and keep the child from visitation. In this case, it appears that the claim was fully investigated. I wonder if the mother decided not to push and pursue it at a criminal level because visitation was cut off, or if MP convinced one or both parents that he was not a threat.

IDK, it's just frustrating. I think society has done a reasonable job in the last decade or more of better understanding the volume and depth of sexual abuse, child abuse and rape. A message has been sent loudly and clearly that "it's not your fault!". Many victims have stopped feeling like they are hiding a dark shameful secret and instead realized they are brave survivors who can help others. Then, as it becomes less taboo to admit that you were a victim, we suddenly see a growing segment of the population who is willing to make false claims in order to hurt someone, get what they want at all costs, or bilk money from someone. It's a real disservice to all of the true victims who, imo, sometimes have to fight harder to prove their case because others are so willing to make false claims.

Just venting... I am thankful that the 13 year old is alive today and wish it was more clear why a criminal investigation wasn't launched. (respectfully snipped)

ALL JMO...

Really? The 13 year old was the daughter of a woman the Plumadore was living with. There were no custody issues. MP was not the father but just a live-in boyfriend of the mother.

Melanie
12-31-2011, 10:04 PM
That interview is very creepy, because I presume at the time of the interview the child's head was in his freezer, while he was telling reporter how he gave her a kiss on the forehead. I don't think it can get much creepier than that.
Yikes.

My first thought was that his statement was probably true. As much as he is a monster, he most likely kissed her forehead after he cut it off.

Sorry to sound so morbid, but it wouldn't suprise me in the least.

MOO

Mel

Pedophobe
12-31-2011, 10:05 PM
Hi, first post here though I've been lurking here and there for about a year. I don't have cable so am not able to follow this case anywhere except online.

I have a few random thoughts/questions to throw out there. My apologies if they have already been brought up.

- I'm reading conflicting reports of MP's account of the night. In the newspaper report recently posted MP says he came in after going to the store and kissed her on the forehead. I seem to recall in a previous report that he said he walked in and assumed she was sleeping on the chair but it turned out to be a ple of clothes instead. I know it doesnt matter now because he has confessed. Just wanted to point that out.

- One report quoted a neighbor saying they were beginning to wonder how MP was going to pay the rent/bills since the grandfather was deceased and MP didnt have a job. He had about a week to go before the first of the month...rent due? Did he get deperate and take advantage of the high concentration of RSOs by taking photos to sell or perhaps invite someone in for a hands on experience. She may have been wearing her nice clothes at MP's suggestion...not knowing it was so she'd look good for the encounter (shudder).

-the young man arrested for touching AL's bottom...why the heck is he still on her dad's friends list? How did he get sentenced to only 10yrs of registering as a Sex offender? Or did i read that wrong? (link posted in #4 discussion). Why does he even have an online profile? Arent RSO's banned from social media?

-If TS set up a facebook account for Aliahna to keep in touch with her friends, why are there GROWN MEN on her friends list?! (from the photo in the photobucket pics someone posted)...and how/why does a 9yr old have 54 friends?!

-Were grandpa's victims male or female? I'm wonderin if MP didnt have a romantic involvement with grandpa in exchange for a place to live. Did TS maybe think he should earn his stay in the trailer by babysitting now that grandpa passed away? It was mentioned that he'd babysit the girls...why? mom is unemployed.

I apologize for the long post. I wanted to post yesterday but had to wait for my account to get cleared.

my_tee_mouse
12-31-2011, 10:10 PM
Last updated: December 31, 2011 6:59 p.m.

Face to face with Michael Plumadore

On Christmas Day – before Plumadore had told investigators they could find Aliahna's body parts in his freezer and in the trash bin of a nearby business – I sat down with him in an aging but well-kept mobile home, where Aliahna's deceased grandfather used to live.

"I have a real massive and bad temper, but I've kept it in check because of Ailey," he said, using Aliahna's nickname.

However, he acknowledged losing his cool while investigators were interviewing him.

"When the FBI and stuff like that did an investigation, they tried that good cop, bad cop. They tried to put me in the category of an evil person," he said with his Southern drawl. "I kind of snapped and went off and jumped out my chair and had words."

Plumadore said he eventually calmed down and offered to let investigators sample his DNA and administer a polygraph test. He said he also gave them his cellphone without hesitation.

much more at link

http://www.journalgazette.net/article/20111231/LOCAL/111239903

It's been my experience that when someone confesses "a little," they really have done something "a lot." So for this guy to confess to a really bad temper, kept in check for Aliahna's benefit...well...red alert!red alert! And as we now know, well... (which also tells me that whatever "little" he confesses to, there's "a lot" more to be found.)

I've also learned that when someone feels it necessary to point out they would "never" "do" something, chances are they've done it in spades...such a hurting animals...and children (insert sobbing emoticon here).

ETA: He admits to kissing her on the forehead...admitted to a little....shudder.

katydid23
12-31-2011, 10:20 PM
Hi, first post here though I've been lurking here and there for about a year. I don't have cable so am not able to follow this case anywhere except online.

I have a few random thoughts/questions to throw out there. My apologies if they have already been brought up.

- I'm reading conflicting reports of MP's account of the night. In the newspaper report recently posted MP says he came in after going to the store and kissed her on the forehead. I seem to recall in a previous report that he said he walked in and assumed she was sleeping on the chair but it turned out to be a ple of clothes instead. I know it doesnt matter now because he has confessed. Just wanted to point that out.

- One report quoted a neighbor saying they were beginning to wonder how MP was going to pay the rent/bills since the grandfather was deceased and MP didnt have a job. He had about a week to go before the first of the month...rent due? Did he get deperate and take advantage of the high concentration of RSOs by taking photos to sell or perhaps invite someone in for a hands on experience. She may have been wearing her nice clothes at MP's suggestion...not knowing it was so she'd look good for the encounter (shudder).

-the young man arrested for touching AL's bottom...why the heck is he still on her dad's friends list? How did he get sentenced to only 10yrs of registering as a Sex offender? Or did i read that wrong? (link posted in #4 discussion). Why does he even have an online profile? Arent RSO's banned from social media?

-If TS set up a facebook account for Aliahna to keep in touch with her friends, why are there GROWN MEN on her friends list?! (from the photo in the photobucket pics someone posted)...and how/why does a 9yr old have 54 friends?!

-Were grandpa's victims male or female? I'm wonderin if MP didnt have a romantic involvement with grandpa in exchange for a place to live. Did TS maybe think he should earn his stay in the trailer by babysitting now that grandpa passed away? It was mentioned that he'd babysit the girls...why? mom is unemployed.

I apologize for the long post. I wanted to post yesterday but had to wait for my account to get cleared.

Good points that you brought up. I am going to reread them and comment, but first Happy New Year and :welcome:

my_tee_mouse
12-31-2011, 10:22 PM
He said Aliahna's sisters were asleep on the floor, and Aliahna was sleeping in her grandfather's recliner.

"I brushed the hair back off her forehead and gave her a kiss and sat down and smoked my cigar, and I went to sleep about 6:30," he said. "I sleep on the couch. You know, they're not my kids. I'm not gonna sleep in the same bed as someone else's kids. And they all want to sleep together, so we all just sleep in the livingroom and watch tv together
http://www.journalgazette.net/article/20111231/LOCAL/111239903
you must read all!

Confess to a little....

Gag.

Can we get a group rate on barf bags?

my_tee_mouse
12-31-2011, 10:29 PM
Such an experienced liar -- able to convince them all with the right touches of distress -- it really makes me wonder about other victims.

This is one of the reasons I am balking when folks come down so hard on the family members. This person is quite accomplished at lying. I can see where even people who've been used and abused would listen to his soothing words and actually think, "What a breath of fresh air! Finally, someone kind and generous and caring."

I see the term "sociopath" thrown around on this site freely when it really doesn't apply. But this, my friends...this guy is the poster child for sociopath, in my humble opinion.

yllek
12-31-2011, 10:32 PM
Really? The 13 year old was the daughter of a woman the Plumadore was living with. There were no custody issues. MP was not the father but just a live-in boyfriend of the mother.

I understand. My point was only in speculation of why the mom did not pursue criminal action. I hope it wasn't because the girl's parents had a contentuous relationship and the civil court suspected the mom might be accusing dad's friend in order to limit or stop visitation. The civil courts get bogged down with lots of bogus claims and false accusations and it angers me because I think valid claims sometimes don't get enough focus. I don't for one minute think that the claim was false in this case, just wondering what deterred the mom from filing a criminal case and why the civil court didn't push it harder if they couldn't take any action to address her claim in family court.

BTW, Plumadore wasn't a live-in boyfriend of the mother. He was a friend (roommate)of the girl's father. I would think the family court would keep the girl from visiting her father unsupervised or without at least issuing a mandate that Plumadore not have any access or interface with the girl. Instead, it seems they told mom to take it to the police. It stopped there, as far as we know. Maybe there's more to the story than was published. In any case, we know what Plumadore did to another little girl not long afterwards. Trying to make some sense of how Ali ended up in the hands of predators at least 3 times and why Plumadore wasn't pursued when he was accused of stalking a child. Terrible chain of events...

Ladylub
12-31-2011, 10:37 PM
What did he find so special about Aliahna that he would keep himself in check for her?
That comment really bugs me. But makes me really think she was his "special little girl".

Jayarre
12-31-2011, 10:40 PM
What did he find so special about Aliahna that he would keep himself in check for her?
That comment really bugs me. But makes me really think she was his "special little girl".

Maybe she was his money maker.:furious:

Noway
12-31-2011, 10:54 PM
This is one of the reasons I am balking when folks come down so hard on the family members. This person is quite accomplished at lying. I can see where even people who've been used and abused would listen to his soothing words and actually think, "What a breath of fresh air! Finally, someone kind and generous and caring."

I see the term "sociopath" thrown around on this site freely when it really doesn't apply. But this, my friends...this guy is the poster child for sociopath, in my humble opinion.

I am sitting on my hands when it comes to saying anything about the family. It will earn me a one way ticket to you-know-where.

The living situation the mom put her kids in -- IIRC 15 of 24 trailers there housed registered sexual offenders (how many of those violators involved victims who were children? and how many of those "other" RSOs had friends ("registered" or not) who had a liking for children?

I don't know any adults with kids in that trailer park sleep at night. It's a snake pit. IMO

Noway
12-31-2011, 11:01 PM
Let those who need to join Cubby and Madilu in their mutual hand-sitting mouth covering ...

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Found Deceased IN - Aliahna Maroney Lemmon, 9, Fort Wayne, 23 Dec 2011, #4


Wish I could have quoted this to put it here. It brought much-needed smile to my face as I tried to picture this Websleuths version of Twister.

Pedophobe
12-31-2011, 11:06 PM
I hope your all sitting down!

... Ick...it's like one huge orgy.

I'm beginning to think so

Sparklin
12-31-2011, 11:08 PM
Really? The 13 year old was the daughter of a woman the Plumadore was living with. There were no custody issues. MP was not the father but just a live-in boyfriend of the mother.

MP was not a boyfriend to the mother. MP lived with the FATHER of the child and it is unknown how he knew the father.

Pedophobe
12-31-2011, 11:10 PM
http://s296.photobucket.com/albums/mm166/crankycrankerson/Aliahna%20Lemmon%20%20-IN-/?action=view&current=Aliahnaglasses.jpg#!oZZ29QQcurrentZZhttp%3 A%2F%2Fs296.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fmm166%2Fcra nkycrankerson%2FAliahna%2520Lemmon%2520%2520-IN-%2F%3Faction%3Dview%26current%3D123011CentervilleI A-ties.jpg

"photo" 29, 2nd to last paragrah says TS was petitioning the city council (Iowa) to allow her to have a dangerous dog "for her handicapped daughter". Grrrrr

SuziQ
12-31-2011, 11:13 PM
I totally agree SuziQ, that's what's frustrating to me. For some reason a criminal case wasn't pursued, though a crime was clearly committed. I don't know if the sexting pics were kept or not. I don't know if the mom was advised that it would be a hard case to prove and a difficult situation to put her daughter through, or if mom reached some kind of agreement in terms of limited visitation or assurance that MP would not be there, or exactly what. I just wish it hadn't stopped there.

For some reason, family/civil court advised mom to pursue a criminal case and something deterred her from following through. I wish the civil court saw fewer false complaints so that they could focus more on encouraging and helping parents in these circumstances to pursue criminal recourse.

There are definitely questions that need to be answered.

JourneyRain
12-31-2011, 11:14 PM
I know families like this one. I've worked in conjunction with CPS for many years. Each jurisdiction has their own rules, guidelines and belief system IMO.

I've worked with many families who run from state to state (or city to city) because well CPS won't do anything or can't. And sometimes it's the judge will side with the parent because they've "made improvements." I get so frustrated with the system but I try to instill in each child/teen I work with that someone out there cares for them and will fight for them even if there is legally nothing I can do. The system is broken but the good social workers are out there.

Ali has really affected me. I just bet Mom ran from Iowa and CPS couldn't prevent it or they did it in the middle of the night. I pray her sisters are with a good foster family.

JMO

my_tee_mouse
12-31-2011, 11:22 PM
I am sitting on my hands when it comes to saying anything about the family. It will earn me a one way ticket to you-know-where.

The living situation the mom put her kids in -- IIRC 15 of 24 trailers there housed registered sexual offenders (how many of those violators involved victims who were children? and how many of those "other" RSOs had friends ("registered" or not) who had a liking for children?

I don't know any adults with kids in that trailer park sleep at night. It's a snake pit. IMO

There's the thing...we look at little girls and get so angry when we see that they've been groomed. But when those groomed little girls grow up and have absolutely no concept of what is right and wrong...we condemn them? At what moment does the magic wand get waved over these "groomed little girls" that turns them into mothers who have any sense about how to protect their own? And no, it is not necessarily waved when we groomed little girls become mothers. And yes, I said we.

Unless and until someone presents proof that this mother...whose father was a RSO...whose mother herself is obviously easily snookered...offered up her daughter...unless and until someone can show me that this mother at some point got that this person who obviously knows what to say and when to say it to sway people his way...and turned her daughter over anyway...unless and until someone can show me that this mother does not have bona fide medical issues that added to the eddy of incidents that led to this horrible, deplorable conclusion...then I absolutely refuse to condemn this woman.

Sparklin
12-31-2011, 11:31 PM
http://s296.photobucket.com/albums/mm166/crankycrankerson/Aliahna%20Lemmon%20%20-IN-/?action=view&current=Aliahnaglasses.jpg#!oZZ29QQcurrentZZhttp%3 A%2F%2Fs296.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fmm166%2Fcra nkycrankerson%2FAliahna%2520Lemmon%2520%2520-IN-%2F%3Faction%3Dview%26current%3D123011CentervilleI A-ties.jpg

"photo" 29, 2nd to last paragrah says TS was petitioning the city council (Iowa) to allow her to have a dangerous dog "for her handicapped daughter". Grrrrr

but never bothered to show up...

yllek
12-31-2011, 11:36 PM
During the initial hearing, a not guilty plea will likely be entered on Plumadore's behalf until an attorney is able to review the case with him.

Plumadore will also be advised of his rights to representation at that time. He'll be able to retain a private attorney if financially able. If not, a public offender will be appointed to his case.

http://www.indianasnewscenter.com/news/local/Whats-Next-For-Michael-Plumadore-136435843.html

BBM

Freudian slip by the writer of the article?

Note: just kidding; I found the mis-wording amusing. I believe all defendants deserve legal representation and hope Plumadore's counsel is adequate; no appeals on the basis of incomptetent counsel if he is found guilty.

SuziQ
12-31-2011, 11:37 PM
There's the thing...we look at little girls and get so angry when we see that they've been groomed. But when those groomed little girls grow up and have absolutely no concept of what is right and wrong...we condemn them? At what moment does the magic wand get waved over these "groomed little girls" that turns them into mothers who have any sense about how to protect their own? And no, it is not necessarily waved when we groomed little girls become mothers. And yes, I said we.

Unless and until someone presents proof that this mother...whose father was a RSO...whose mother herself is obviously easily snookered...offered up her daughter...unless and until someone can show me that this mother at some point got that this person who obviously knows what to say and when to say it to sway people his way...and turned her daughter over anyway...unless and until someone can show me that this mother does not have bona fide medical issues that added to the eddy of incidents that led to this horrible, deplorable conclusion...then I absolutely refuse to condemn this woman.

Most survivors know what happened to them is wrong and not only that they refuse to allow their children to be exposed to the horrors they were. It's a myth that everyone who is abused will go on to abuse. I am an example that that is not true. In fac,t my experience has made me more aware and able to spot sociopaths and other creeps easier. Mom has no excuse. None.

SuziQ
12-31-2011, 11:39 PM
FWIW and my MOO, a victim stops being a victim the moment they become a perp.

katydid23
12-31-2011, 11:43 PM
Most survivors know what happened to them is wrong and not only that they refuse to allow their children to be exposed to the horrors they were. It's a myth that everyone who is abused will go on to abuse. I am an example that that is not true. In fac,t my experience has made me more aware and able to spot sociopaths and other creeps easier. Mom has no excuse. None.

I agree with you about MOST survivors. And in my case I was very protective of my kids. But I only had one abuser in my environment. And it was top secret, a toxic secret, because no one else in my family would have allowed ti to continue. In fact one of the reasons I never told on him was because I knew my father would have killed my uncle if he had found out about it. At least it seemed possible in my young mind.

But there are some girls who grow up in an entire family of abusers and in a web of sickness and deceit, where it is condoned. Not only condoned, but highly valued. And IF Ali's mother grew up that way, then I will give her some sympathy because if so, she is truly damaged.

mysteriew
12-31-2011, 11:46 PM
Last updated: December 31, 2011 6:59 p.m.

Face to face with Michael Plumadore

On Christmas Day – before Plumadore had told investigators they could find Aliahna's body parts in his freezer and in the trash bin of a nearby business – I sat down with him in an aging but well-kept mobile home, where Aliahna's deceased grandfather used to live.

"I have a real massive and bad temper, but I've kept it in check because of Ailey," he said, using Aliahna's nickname.

However, he acknowledged losing his cool while investigators were interviewing him.

"When the FBI and stuff like that did an investigation, they tried that good cop, bad cop. They tried to put me in the category of an evil person," he said with his Southern drawl. "I kind of snapped and went off and jumped out my chair and had words."

Plumadore said he eventually calmed down and offered to let investigators sample his DNA and administer a polygraph test. He said he also gave them his cellphone without hesitation.

much more at link

http://www.journalgazette.net/article/20111231/LOCAL/111239903

Very interesting.

So he says all of them were sleeping in the living room. Why would he make a point of saying that he wouldn't sleep in the same bed as kids who weren't his?

He says that Ali was up at 2-2:30 am and wanting her mother. Ok I can actually see this happening. But he has supposedly had the kids for a week. But she suddenly in the middle of the night wants her Mommy? What suddenly made her homesick? What suddenly made her want her Mommy?

He says nothing about what was happening for the next 4 hours. But he allegedly was up all night. At 6 am, he is headed for the store for a cigar? Was that a post coital smoke?

I was trying to think of the reactions/responses of a 9 year old girl. This wouldn't be your typical 9 year old in some ways. Previously molested, with the perp now in jail. So she knew about the justice system, she knew if she complained that he could be arrested. I'm thinking at some point she may have told him she would tell, and that he would go to jail.

She was allegedly killed outside on the steps. Did he tell her she could go home in order to get her outside and keep from waking the 6 year olds? Did he drag her out there? Or did she attempt to run away from him? If so why didn't she try to run while he was at the store? Or was she still really alive by that time?

Perps often give little bits of truths in telling their 'revised' stories. They hope that will help them to remember the details of what they tell, by keeping it as true as possible and only changing incriminating details.

The most interesting thing to me was that it was his idea to tell the 'perp' to send a letter telling what happened or where she was. I think if he hadn't been arrested, hadn't been found out he might actually have done that. Might have later sent a letter, though it is hard to say what he would have written to them.

'Ailina
12-31-2011, 11:48 PM
If meth were TS's poison of choice, wouldn't she have shown dramatic weight loss?

Bittiness39
12-31-2011, 11:49 PM
I wonder if any of them worked at/lived near Fort Bragg, NC? Does anyone know? And if so, would it have been around 2005?

mysteriew
12-31-2011, 11:56 PM
Really? The 13 year old was the daughter of a woman the Plumadore was living with. There were no custody issues. MP was not the father but just a live-in boyfriend of the mother.

IIRC Plumadore was living with the father of the 13 year old. He had never lived with the mother and that is why they couldn't give a restraining order to the child. In Iowa the restraining orders are connected to the domestic violence laws and the couple needed to have resided together at some point.

Noway
12-31-2011, 11:56 PM
Was TS groomed by someone and a victim? I'm sorry that I didn't realize that.
Sad but maybe not strange that she moved away then and was drawn back.

Did taking care of her father fall to her because her siblings would have nothing to do with him, or did they also help?

Did her bro move to Fort Wayne after she did or before? If before, why did he not care for his sick dad? And how does MP fit in since it was also reported that he had moved in with JL to care for him.

Article Link (http://open.salon.com/blog/laura_wilkerson/2011/12/28/15_out_of_24_homes_have_sex_offenders_living_in_th em)

Obit that mentions siblings.
http://www.legacy.com/obituaries/fortwayne/obituary.aspx?n=james-e-lemmon&pid=154914940

katydid23
12-31-2011, 11:57 PM
Very interesting.

So he says all of them were sleeping in the living room. Why would he make a point of saying that he wouldn't sleep in the same bed as kids who weren't his?

He says that Ali was up at 2-2:30 am and wanting her mother. Ok I can actually see this happening. But he has supposedly had the kids for a week. But she suddenly in the middle of the night wants her Mommy? What suddenly made her homesick? What suddenly made her want her Mommy?

He says nothing about what was happening for the next 4 hours. But he allegedly was up all night. At 6 am, he is headed for the store for a cigar? Was that a post coital smoke?

I was trying to think of the reactions/responses of a 9 year old girl. This wouldn't be your typical 9 year old in some ways. Previously molested, with the perp now in jail. So she knew about the justice system, she knew if she complained that he could be arrested. I'm thinking at some point she may have told him she would tell, and that he would go to jail.

She was allegedly killed outside on the steps. Did he tell her she could go home in order to get her outside and keep from waking the 6 year olds? Did he drag her out there? Or did she attempt to run away from him? If so why didn't she try to run while he was at the store? Or was she still really alive by that time?

Perps often give little bits of truths in telling their 'revised' stories. They hope that will help them to remember the details of what they tell, by keeping it as true as possible and only changing incriminating details.

The most interesting thing to me was that it was his idea to tell the 'perp' to send a letter telling what happened or where she was. I think if he hadn't been arrested, hadn't been found out he might actually have done that. Might have later sent a letter, though it is hard to say what he would have written to them.

I think she was gone long before he went to the market. I think they may have found some of her remains in the dumpster there. So imo, she was killed earlier in the evening. I think she may have been trying to protect her little sisters. She may have put up a fuss when she saw him doing something and then said she was going to go home and tell on him. He may have followed her outside and restrained her but i wonder how much her sisters saw.

Noway
01-01-2012, 12:00 AM
According to one article, MP said Aliahna was having nightmares, woke at 2:30 and wanted her mom.

eta link

http://www.journalgazette.net/article/20111231/LOCAL/111239903

Plumadore said he had stayed up all night because Aliahna had been having nightmares. At one point, she told him she missed her mother and wanted to leave. "But I said, 'Honey, you know, it's 2, 2:30 in the morning. We'll get with Mommy in the morning,' " he said.

FrayedKnot
01-01-2012, 12:03 AM
There's the thing...we look at little girls and get so angry when we see that they've been groomed. But when those groomed little girls grow up and have absolutely no concept of what is right and wrong...we condemn them? At what moment does the magic wand get waved over these "groomed little girls" that turns them into mothers who have any sense about how to protect their own? And no, it is not necessarily waved when we groomed little girls become mothers. And yes, I said we.

Unless and until someone presents proof that this mother...whose father was a RSO...whose mother herself is obviously easily snookered...offered up her daughter...unless and until someone can show me that this mother at some point got that this person who obviously knows what to say and when to say it to sway people his way...and turned her daughter over anyway...unless and until someone can show me that this mother does not have bona fide medical issues that added to the eddy of incidents that led to this horrible, deplorable conclusion...then I absolutely refuse to condemn this woman.

Respectfully, it isn't a magic wand, but what is commonly called the "age of reason". It is why voting, driving licenses, marriage, etc. are not permitted legally until an individual reaches a certain age.

The assumption being that by the time an individual reaches that particular age, they are capable of making informed decisions and bearing responsibility for those decisions.

We have posters on this forum who have been victims of the worst kinds of abuse. The difference between them and a horror of a mother like TS (assuming she even WAS a victim of abuse), is that at some point they STOPPED being victims. They became SURVIVORS.

These people broke the cycles into which they were born. They became loving, caring and VIGILANT parents, and by virtue of their even being active in this forum, advocates for these children who HAVE no voice.

Regardless of what we have endured as children, when we become adults, we are responsible for the choices we make and when it comes to making choices for our children, we should be held to an even HIGHER standard.

I am not one of these survivors, but I do think I have a good understanding of how hard it is to rise above your upbringing and make decent, responsible life choices.

If we keep lowering the bar and excusing horrific neglect and abuse based on the perps (or complicit parents') own childhoods, then we effectively enable and excuse the continuation of the cycle.

I can only give as an example what I tell my ADHD daughter; "ADHD may be the REASON you want to act a certain way, but it isn't an EXCUSE". Yes, she has to work a little harder than most kids to exercise self control, but there it is.

I am still catching up on the excellent sleuthing over the last day. I had to take a break, as I was getting way too angry, upset and depressed by this whole stinking cesspool of a case. But you guys rock! Awesome finds and developments!

Happy New Year!

Wild@Heart
01-01-2012, 12:03 AM
Very interesting.

So he says all of them were sleeping in the living room. Why would he make a point of saying that he wouldn't sleep in the same bed as kids who weren't his?

He says that Ali was up at 2-2:30 am and wanting her mother. Ok I can actually see this happening. But he has supposedly had the kids for a week. But she suddenly in the middle of the night wants her Mommy? What suddenly made her homesick? What suddenly made her want her Mommy?

He says nothing about what was happening for the next 4 hours. But he allegedly was up all night. At 6 am, he is headed for the store for a cigar? Was that a post coital smoke?

I was trying to think of the reactions/responses of a 9 year old girl. This wouldn't be your typical 9 year old in some ways. Previously molested, with the perp now in jail. So she knew about the justice system, she knew if she complained that he could be arrested. I'm thinking at some point she may have told him she would tell, and that he would go to jail.

She was allegedly killed outside on the steps. Did he tell her she could go home in order to get her outside and keep from waking the 6 year olds? Did he drag her out there? Or did she attempt to run away from him? If so why didn't she try to run while he was at the store? Or was she still really alive by that time?

Perps often give little bits of truths in telling their 'revised' stories. They hope that will help them to remember the details of what they tell, by keeping it as true as possible and only changing incriminating details.

The most interesting thing to me was that it was his idea to tell the 'perp' to send a letter telling what happened or where she was. I think if he hadn't been arrested, hadn't been found out he might actually have done that. Might have later sent a letter, though it is hard to say what he would have written to them.

...and mommy was at home on the computer!

Noway
01-01-2012, 12:06 AM
Oh ... so it has not been verified that mom was groomed, was a victim, etc.

jjenny
01-01-2012, 12:09 AM
According to one article, MP said Aliahna was having nightmares, woke at 2:30 and wanted her mom.

eta link

http://www.journalgazette.net/article/20111231/LOCAL/111239903

Plumadore said he had stayed up all night because Aliahna had been having nightmares. At one point, she told him she missed her mother and wanted to leave. "But I said, 'Honey, you know, it's 2, 2:30 in the morning. We'll get with Mommy in the morning,' " he said.

At that time she was already dead and in the freezer. In the police affidavit, she was killed early hours on Thursday. So she would not be asking for her mother at 2:30 am on Friday.

Noway
01-01-2012, 12:14 AM
I have come up with one horrific scenario after another in my mind, but I can't bring myself to type them out. I'm sure most of you have done the same. As if what we do know isn't bad enough, I fear the whole story.

FrayedKnot
01-01-2012, 12:15 AM
@my-tee-mouse:

I re-read your post and see that you are also a survivor. (((hugs))))

I wasn't attacking you, the caps were because I am using tapatalk and can't figure out how to bold for emphasis!

grumpybear19802001
01-01-2012, 12:15 AM
Hi everyone.. I live in Northeastern Indiana (about 30min North of Fort Wayne). And I have to tell you I've been following this forum/thread along (just got approved today) and reporting your findings to my friends :) I would like to say thank you for all your guys hard work and efforts.

jjenny
01-01-2012, 12:16 AM
Very interesting.

So he says all of them were sleeping in the living room. Why would he make a point of saying that he wouldn't sleep in the same bed as kids who weren't his?

He says that Ali was up at 2-2:30 am and wanting her mother. Ok I can actually see this happening. But he has supposedly had the kids for a week. But she suddenly in the middle of the night wants her Mommy? What suddenly made her homesick? What suddenly made her want her Mommy?


...

According to police affidavit, at the time he claimed she was asking for her mommy, she was already dead. According to police affidavit she was killed early Thursday morning, and he is describing what she was supposedly doing on Friday morning. Well if she were dead and in the freezer she clearly couldn't have been asking for her mommy.

mysteriew
01-01-2012, 12:17 AM
I agree with you about MOST survivors. And in my case I was very protective of my kids. But I only had one abuser in my environment. And it was top secret, a toxic secret, because no one else in my family would have allowed ti to continue. In fact one of the reasons I never told on him was because I knew my father would have killed my uncle if he had found out about it. At least it seemed possible in my young mind.

But there are some girls who grow up in an entire family of abusers and in a web of sickness and deceit, where it is condoned. Not only condoned, but highly valued. And IF Ali's mother grew up that way, then I will give her some sympathy because if so, she is truly damaged.

To a great extent I will agree with you. But in this case somehow the previous molester got prosecuted. I don't know how it came to the attention of authorities, but it did. And if Mom didn't cooperate in that prosecution then likely she wouldn't have kepr custody of the kids. And she did keep them.
So at least one point she did stand up for her child.

So at this point I think it is a little early to assume that Mom was involved or was ignoring a bad situation. The father said he knew the guy and he thought the guy was ok. So maybe neither of the parents knew about the 13 year old or maybe they were told some story about a vindictive ex wife or something. None of the family seems to have believed this guy would have harmed any of the kids. Somehow I believe that.

Noway
01-01-2012, 12:19 AM
At that time she was already dead and in the freezer. In the police affidavit, she was killed early hours on Thursday. So she would not be asking for her mother at 2:30 am on Friday.

Maybe that is what happened on Thursday, and he bumped it a day in order to establish some sort of alibi, initially?

Would the 6 year olds be able to say when they last saw her with any certainty? My daughter is almost 6 but gets mixed up about yesterdays and tomorrows sometimes (and that is on normal every day activities, not when she last saw her sister).

eta
The reports on when she was reported missing are confusing. I've read Friday (http://www.globalpost.com/dispatch/news/regions/americas/united-states/111227/aliahna-lemmon-babysitter-dismember-michael-plumadore-fort-wayne-indiana) and this article says Thursday (http://www.websleuths.com/forums/He was awakened realized she was gone when Aliahna's mother called him at 10am, he claimed. He told police he thought that she had left with her mother so she wasn't reported missing until almost 9pm Thursday.).

Probable cause document (http://abcnews.go.com/US/page/affidavit--15240767)indicates December 23.

She was reported missing December 23 (Friday) around 8:30. But the girls (6 yos) must have noticed she was gone -- he says they told him she went over to her mother's but I am guessing it was the other way around, and he told them that is where their sister had gone. JMO

neese
01-01-2012, 12:20 AM
Well it's a New Year here on the East Coast and when I come back to this thread, it reminds me, the New Year is just as crappy as the one a few minutes ago and will be until all the child molestors and abusers meet their fate. :(

FrayedKnot
01-01-2012, 12:21 AM
I have come up with one horrific scenario after another in my mind, but I can't bring myself to type them out. I'm sure most of you have done the same. As if what we do know isn't bad enough, I fear the whole story.

I began fearing what I can only hope is the worst once gma began blaming Aliahna and praising MP. That made me want to smack her ( sorry but I did). But more than that, I the worst suspicions of some evil network in which the family was complicit if not actively involved. I won't say anymore cuz I don't want to spend 2012 in Coventry, lol

mysteriew
01-01-2012, 12:23 AM
According to police affidavit, at the time he claimed she was asking for her mommy, she was already dead. According to police affidavit she was killed early Thursday morning, and he is describing what she was supposedly doing on Friday morning. Well if she were dead and in the freezer she clearly couldn't have been asking for her mommy.

So is it possible that some of the events he was describing as happening on Fri am actually happened on Thurs. am?

my_tee_mouse
01-01-2012, 12:26 AM
Most survivors know what happened to them is wrong and not only that they refuse to allow their children to be exposed to the horrors they were. It's a myth that everyone who is abused will go on to abuse. I am an example that that is not true. In fac,t my experience has made me more aware and able to spot sociopaths and other creeps easier. Mom has no excuse. None.


I beg to differ, and most of the clients I've dealt with would also. Victims might be totally confused, and some little voice deep inside tells them that something isn't right, but no, it has not been my experience that victims know that what happened to them is wrong, because in many cases, the very people that are abusing them are the ones that are supposed to be teaching them right and wrong.

No one said one word about someone who is abused going on to abuse. I have been abused. Thrice over...babysitter, Bible-thumping grandfather, older friend of older friend. I have never abused anyone. However...have I trusted sociopaths and others who offer a kind hand and word? Yep. You betcha. Because during my "formative years," those people who were supposed to be the paragon of virtue did unspeakable things to me, so the people who said the "right things" must be right, right?

Where has it been shown that this mother did anything to participate in drugs or child porn or prostitution? Where? Where has it been shown that she is guilty of anything other than trusting someone who worked hard at being trusted? Show me. Anybody. Show me. And yet she's been accused of everything and anything. Where are the links, folks? Where's the proof that this woman is engaged in all the awful things she's been accused of?

FrayedKnot
01-01-2012, 12:33 AM
Well it's a New Year here on the East Coast and when I come back to this thread, it reminds me, the New Year is just as crappy as the one a few minutes ago and will be until all the child molestors and abusers meet their fate. :(

We still have a few minutes of 2011 here, but I hear you. Neese, I know taking yesterday off from WS and focusing on my own family made a world of difference and lifted my despairing mood.

This world no doubt has it's sh**ty elements, and while it's the responsibility of us all to try to make it better, we have to also take care of "us". ((((hugs))))

Take care of you and let's be hopeful that THIS new year will be the one to finally change things for the smallest victims. It's not one-size-fits-all investigating. Missing children need to be looked for as alive AND dead.

matou
01-01-2012, 12:34 AM
The guy smokes a cigar in the early hours of the morning in a trailer with three sleeping kids???? That's not screwed up or suspicious enough??? The interviewer must have been shifting around and shaking his or her head in complete disgust and disbelief...only to look at the members of Aliahna's family sitting there and backing him up. WTH? BARF

my_tee_mouse
01-01-2012, 12:35 AM
Respectfully, it isn't a magic wand, but what is commonly called the "age of reason". It is why voting, driving licenses, marriage, etc. are not permitted legally until an individual reaches a certain age.

The assumption being that by the time an individual reaches that particular age, they are capable of making informed decisions and bearing responsibility for those decisions.

We have posters on this forum who have been victims of the worst kinds of abuse. The difference between them and a horror of a mother like TS (assuming she even WAS a victim of abuse), is that at some point they STOPPED being victims. They became SURVIVORS.

These people broke the cycles into which they were born. They became loving, caring and VIGILANT parents, and by virtue of their even being active in this forum, advocates for these children who HAVE no voice.

Regardless of what we have endured as children, when we become adults, we are responsible for the choices we make and when it comes to making choices for our children, we should be held to an even HIGHER standard.

I am not one of these survivors, but I do think I have a good understanding of how hard it is to rise above your upbringing and make decent, responsible life choices.

If we keep lowering the bar and excusing horrific neglect and abuse based on the perps (or complicit parents') own childhoods, then we effectively enable and excuse the continuation of the cycle.

I can only give as an example what I tell my ADHD daughter; "ADHD may be the REASON you want to act a certain way, but it isn't an EXCUSE". Yes, she has to work a little harder than most kids to exercise self control, but there it is.

I am still catching up on the excellent sleuthing over the last day. I had to take a break, as I was getting way too angry, upset and depressed by this whole stinking cesspool of a case. But you guys rock! Awesome finds and developments!

Happy New Year!
And I am one of those survivors...nope...I'm a victor. And I absolutely refuse to sit back and watch someone who has not had the blessed resources and mentors in their life that got me through hell and beyond be crucified. And I am speaking from two perspectives here...having been there, done that and having dealt with so so many women in prison and in the homeless shelters who never had anyone help them understand that the muddy, murky, drowning waters of what they went through is not what most people live through.

For anyone on this board who has survived...good for you! But do not judge everyone based on your ability to get through it. You survived because something went right. There are many many people out there who have lived lots of years without that privilege.

my_tee_mouse
01-01-2012, 12:37 AM
@my-tee-mouse:

I re-read your post and see that you are also a survivor. (((hugs))))

I wasn't attacking you, the caps were because I am using tapatalk and can't figure out how to bold for emphasis!

No worries, Frayed. I know you are a wise and thoughtful poster.

joshiesmom
01-01-2012, 12:41 AM
But there are some girls who grow up in an entire family of abusers and in a web of sickness and deceit, where it is condoned. Not only condoned, but highly valued. And IF Ali's mother grew up that way, then I will give her some sympathy because if so, she is truly damaged.

I was molested by my oldest brother for 7 years. When I finally told a teacher, who alerted authorities, my brother was arrested at his college & my parents were called to come to my school, where they were told what was going on. In front of the principal, my mom was solicitous & nice to me, but as soon as we were in the car to go home, she turned on me & wanted to know why I'd made up such lies about my brother. He admitted that he'd abused me & my mother STILL refused to believe it. To this day, my entire family protects my brother & maintains he's a great guy. Even one of my sisters who was also abused by him (he molested both her & me on our parents' bed). The story that my family maintains is that I lied about my brother for attention. The fact that he was convicted of a class A felony means nothing except that I was horribly malicious in trying to wreck his life.

What's my point? I'm not horribly damaged even though I spent my life in an environment where molestation was an "okay" thing & the victim was blamed & demeaned & treated like crap once the truth came out. I grew up pretty screwed up, but counseling & choosing to cut my biological family out of my life so that the cycle of abuse could be broken & my own children could be spared the crap I went through was the route I chose.

I know it's not an easy road for survivors of incest, but dang it, TS didn't have to choose to give her children to a convicted felon!!! I don't care HOW bad her childhood was! I DON'T CARE how challenging her life has been. There's no good excuse in my book for not taking care of your kids. Absolutely zero. As such, I am so thoroughly disgusted by the adults involved in this case that I want to.... well, I can't say 'cuz it would get me a T.O. :mad:

FrayedKnot
01-01-2012, 12:45 AM
I beg to differ, and most of the clients I've dealt with would also. Victims might be totally confused, and some little voice deep inside tells them that something isn't right, but no, it has not been my experience that victims know that what happened to them is wrong, because in many cases, the very people that are abusing them are the ones that are supposed to be teaching them right and wrong.

No one said one word about someone who is abused going on to abuse. I have been abused. Thrice over...babysitter, Bible-thumping grandfather, older friend of older friend. I have never abused anyone. However...have I trusted sociopaths and others who offer a kind hand and word? Yep. You betcha. Because during my "formative years," those people who were supposed to be the paragon of virtue did unspeakable things to me, so the people who said the "right things" must be right, right?

Where has it been shown that this mother did anything to participate in drugs or child porn or prostitution? Where? Where has it been shown that she is guilty of anything other than trusting someone who worked hard at being trusted? Show me. Anybody. Show me. And yet she's been accused of everything and anything. Where are the links, folks? Where's the proof that this woman is engaged in all the awful things she's been accused of?

I trust my sister with my life and with even more precious child. But even if I were deathly ill, I would SPEAK TO my child every single day and if she a few feet away, I'd lay my eyes on her. This is my sweet sissy, not some convicted felon who lived with perv daddy in child raper heaven.

If I were well enough to play Farmville, then my baby wouldn't even BE at my sister's in the first place right before Christmas.

Maybe there is no proof of drugs or child porn, but there is no doubt she is a negligent, narcissistic person. And I do believe that we WILL see proof of some thing that are even worse.

But I do agree with not actually accusing TS of drug use or pimping out her kids. Until those suspicions are confirmed. Some people are just theorizing and speculating though.

I don't think the negligence accusations is really debatable, IMHO. She FAILED her child horribly.

beach
01-01-2012, 12:54 AM
Attention please. :)

I love the reference lists. Thank you! All these people seem so intertwined - ex's, currents, formers, step, biological... yikes.

This is the thing - we can't use FULL NAMES of anyone not named in the MSM, released by LE or come forward on their own. HOWEVER, I agree that a lot of these characters with records, particularly the RSOs, could prove to be relevant.

So here is the deal -

Identify them by using acronyms. Use initials. When there are duplicate first/last name initials, add another letter. (e.g., KK, KtK, KsK) and cross-reference the intials identifying them as to their relationship to the the perp or to Aliahana - (e.g., former brother-in-law, ex-stepdad, etc...)

That is as far as we need to go until we have further evidence or statements. Keep in mind some of these people may be completely innocent. I would rather err on the side of protecting the innocent. It would be irresponsible of us to permit someone's name be dragged into this ugly, horrid mess who has turned their life around, kwim?


Please bump this post as needed for those who might miss it. :tyou:


Bumping this for those who might not have read the first page of this thread.


Please remember - we can't sleuth anyone and everyone. I've had to remove several references to stuff found on MySpace and FB's of non-players. Please do not bring over comments or refer to pages that can't be linked. Bookmark them or take a screenshot if you want. Maybe it can be linked later as evidence unfolds and LE releases more info.

Thanks y'all.

my_tee_mouse
01-01-2012, 01:00 AM
This case hits lots of nerves, and there are lots of old old hurts and pains that are being spit out. And that's good. That's really good. In sharing, we cleanse ourselves. For some of us, it's washing off the first layer. For others, it's the 35th.

I'm 55 years old. My abuse started at age 3...one year younger than my oldest grandchild. One year older than my oldest granddaughter. If someone were to touch one hair on their heads, I would tear them apart with my bare hands. But it took me a lot of those 55 minus three years to get to this stage.

Please please please, folks. We have a lot of "victims" on this site. It's why a lot of people are here. But instead of sitting here and making post after post sitting in judgment, please please pleeeeese get out and do something to make things different. Or if you can't get out, write letters. Change the stupid laws that allow molesters to walk or to tread lightly. Become mentors and help show folks that this is not the way most folks live. For every "survivor" (I prefer "victor") on this site, I guar-on-teee you there was at least one positive mentor who made them understand that this is not the life they have to accept...and their kids don't have to accept it either.

It's one minute until a new year where I'm sitting up here in WallyWorldLand. We have tons of good-hearted folks here at WS. Let's make a commitment to help make things right for the Aliahnas of the world.

Bittiness39
01-01-2012, 01:07 AM
Happy New Year fellow WS'ers! I personally want to thank each and every poster and mod (though you are posters too...just with more privileges ;) ) for all of the tireless work, finding links, FB pages, information about perps...trying to find where they lived, if they are connected to other cases. Many of us have been victims of violent crime, or lost loved ones to violent crime. But you are all heroes to me! :) Happy New Year! Maybe we can't stop them all. Maybe we can't prevent all of these terrible crimes from happening. But we can try to Sleuth them out the best we can.

My friend's murderer was caught because of posts on a forum like this one. Posters can make a difference. I know this. Because I lived it. Had it not been for forums like this one, the profile of my friend's killer may have continued to remain...and it was wrong. But someone came on our forum with relevant and as it turns out CRITICAL information that helped to sway the FBI and task force away from their profile...and led them to my friend's killer.

Don't give up. Don't give in. I don't have the answers. I just know that it is necessary that we are many...and the evil are few. Maybe there will be enough of us one day for our light to shine through the shadows...maybe.

RIP sweet Aliahna. You paid the ultimate price. But your life and light has now possibly put your siblings out of danger. Put a spotlight on MP and possibly other horrid people connected to him. You can rest now. You've done good. Your siblings are safe now. You are a hero. :) I am so sorry that you are gone too soon.

my_tee_mouse
01-01-2012, 01:22 AM
I trust my sister with my life and with even more precious child. But even if I were deathly ill, I would SPEAK TO my child every single day and if she a few feet away, I'd lay my eyes on her. This is my sweet sissy, not some convicted felon who lived with perv daddy in child raper heaven.

If I were well enough to play Farmville, then my baby wouldn't even BE at my sister's in the first place right before Christmas.

Maybe there is no proof of drugs or child porn, but there is no doubt she is a negligent, narcissistic person. And I do believe that we WILL see proof of some thing that are even worse.

But I do agree with not actually accusing TS of drug use or pimping out her kids. Until those suspicions are confirmed. Some people are just theorizing and speculating though.

I don't think the negligence accusations is really debatable, IMHO. She FAILED her child horribly.
And we, as a society, have failed her child...and her...horribly!

jjenny
01-01-2012, 01:34 AM
And we, as a society, have failed her child...and her...horribly!

Why exactly are we, as society, responsible for this adult woman?

MaraSleuth
01-01-2012, 01:36 AM
Maybe that is what happened on Thursday, and he bumped it a day in order to establish some sort of alibi, initially?

Would the 6 year olds be able to say when they last saw her with any certainty? My daughter is almost 6 but gets mixed up about yesterdays and tomorrows sometimes (and that is on normal every day activities, not when she last saw her sister).



My son is turning 6 and he gets pretty mixed up too. Very possible IMO to get days confused.

Melanie
01-01-2012, 01:42 AM
And we, as a society, have failed her child...and her...horribly!

I'm not quite sure how we as a society failed the mother (or the step-father for that mater). I've seen no evidence of abuse, crimes, or a plethora of things that would cause the behaviour of sending her child to live with someone else for a week while she played on her computer. Quite frankly, I know very little about her.

All I've heard is she had the flu. Is this a reason to send her children away for a week? IMVHO - hardly. Step daddy worked at night, but did he sleep all day as well? Most people (like me) live on 5-8 hours of sleep. Add 8 hours of work, that leaves another 8 hours of "adult time". I've yet to hear what step-daddy did during those hours. I can't imagine he slept 16 hours a day.

As parent/step-parents BOTH had an obligation to protect A. Maybe even check on her. I haven't heard where she was ever checked on, or even called (but perhaps that will come out later).

I won't put all the burden on the mother -- I believe that should be shared with the step-father as well.

Just my opinion - thanks.

Mel

my_tee_mouse
01-01-2012, 01:47 AM
Why exactly are we, as society, responsible for this adult woman?

Frankly, we are all responsible for the rest of us. It is what we do not do that paves the way for poverty, despair, bigotry, hatred, perversion...feel free to add any and all other conditions that apply.

Wild@Heart
01-01-2012, 01:48 AM
I was molested by my oldest brother for 7 years. When I finally told a teacher, who alerted authorities, my brother was arrested at his college & my parents were called to come to my school, where they were told what was going on. In front of the principal, my mom was solicitous & nice to me, but as soon as we were in the car to go home, she turned on me & wanted to know why I'd made up such lies about my brother. He admitted that he'd abused me & my mother STILL refused to believe it. To this day, my entire family protects my brother & maintains he's a great guy. Even one of my sisters who was also abused by him (he molested both her & me on our parents' bed). The story that my family maintains is that I lied about my brother for attention. The fact that he was convicted of a class A felony means nothing except that I was horribly malicious in trying to wreck his life.

What's my point? I'm not horribly damaged even though I spent my life in an environment where molestation was an "okay" thing & the victim was blamed & demeaned & treated like crap once the truth came out. I grew up pretty screwed up, but counseling & choosing to cut my biological family out of my life so that the cycle of abuse could be broken & my own children could be spared the crap I went through was the route I chose.

I know it's not an easy road for survivors of incest, but dang it, TS didn't have to choose to give her children to a convicted felon!!! I don't care HOW bad her childhood was! I DON'T CARE how challenging her life has been. There's no good excuse in my book for not taking care of your kids. Absolutely zero. As such, I am so thoroughly disgusted by the adults involved in this case that I want to.... well, I can't say 'cuz it would get me a T.O. :mad:

You just told my story! I'm sitting here holding my 8 month old grand-daughter in my arms as she sleeps. I can't help but think about beautiful Aliahna. My grand-daughter name is Lilianna. If anyone ever hurt this baby or any of my other 3 grand-children, I will judge them myself! Without a desire to overcome sexual abuse from the age of 3 and to be a victor, I don't know what my life would look like today. My abusers are protected by lies as I am the lying black sheep. I give thanks to Jesus Christ for being my Lord and Savior on the beginning of this New Year. May God Bless ALL of you and keep all these victims and their loved one safe!!

carole
01-01-2012, 01:53 AM
The guy smokes a cigar in the early hours of the morning in a trailer with three sleeping kids???? That's not screwed up or suspicious enough??? The interviewer must have been shifting around and shaking his or her head in complete disgust and disbelief...only to look at the members of Aliahna's family sitting there and backing him up. WTH? BARF

BBM

The sheriff said on Nancy Grace last week that the cigar was one of the things that made them stop and really look at MP. Going out in the middle of the night/early morning to buy a cigar while babysitting for 3 little girls didn't make any sense.

I think it was a case of MP saying too much, liars are known to say too much, thinking to head off any questions that might be asked later.

Also when he said he would never hurt a child, or an animal. Why add animal - there weren't any missing. But molesters are known to start with animals. Oops said too much again.

twall
01-01-2012, 01:54 AM
This report may be a few days old (can't find a date on it) but I have not seen it posted here yet. Thought it may come in handy if anyone wants to sleuth cold cases. MP has ties to Juptier, FL.

http://www.cbs12.com/video/c/1143359274/local-news/1349445034001/wpec-localnews

Dee10
01-01-2012, 01:54 AM
This case hits lots of nerves, and there are lots of old old hurts and pains that are being spit out. And that's good. That's really good. In sharing, we cleanse ourselves. For some of us, it's washing off the first layer. For others, it's the 35th.

I'm 55 years old. My abuse started at age 3...one year younger than my oldest grandchild. One year older than my oldest granddaughter. If someone were to touch one hair on their heads, I would tear them apart with my bare hands. But it took me a lot of those 55 minus three years to get to this stage.

Please please please, folks. We have a lot of "victims" on this site. It's why a lot of people are here. But instead of sitting here and making post after post sitting in judgment, please please pleeeeese get out and do something to make things different. Or if you can't get out, write letters. Change the stupid laws that allow molesters to walk or to tread lightly. Become mentors and help show folks that this is not the way most folks live. For every "survivor" (I prefer "victor") on this site, I guar-on-teee you there was at least one positive mentor who made them understand that this is not the life they have to accept...and their kids don't have to accept it either.

It's one minute until a new year where I'm sitting up here in WallyWorldLand. We have tons of good-hearted folks here at WS. Let's make a commitment to help make things right for the Aliahnas of the world.

I can agree with that particular post above post & I can try to understand where you are coming from in your others; one of my friends said something similar...after I was talking about buying a pitch-fork :crazy: My DH is from a large family, dirt poor, his gym shoes were made from a bicycle tire on the bottom sown to socks; yeah he got beat up a lot. He was sexually abused for a short period around 5 or 6 from an uncle when he stayed at Grandmas but physically abused by Dad the rest of the time. The kids all started working when they were 6-7 years old it was horrible & have cried over some of the stories. They are sorry CPS didn't take them away, which wasn't really available then & Ma had a shot-gun by the door.

Now 6 out of the 8 are well-off (due to the old work-ethic, even though they didn't finish high school), great parents (a little strict maybe), very close to their children, good citizens, well respected in the community, etc. I asked a number of them, how did you break the cycle, what made the difference for you? Most of them said, "we watched other families & learned from them". Only one has had counseling, but I think it also helped watching the older sibling break-out & my parents became like Big Brother/Sisters took them places. We didn't know about the abuse until much later; they all buried it. I only found out about my hubby about 5 years ago, so after about 22 years of marriage he tells me & now he feels so free, he feels comfortable telling others.

DH has been following this story from me & NG. I asked him what he thought about the mother/step-father. He feels she probably was abused, the family connections, etc. but that is no excuse for not seeing the HUGE RED flags all over the place & allowing your children to be in this guys 'care'. Because of the family connections she had to know about MP & the 13 yr. old & yet she willingly let him babysit. He believes A. was groomed to be quiet, because she was taught "it's wrong", therefore they know the difference. He thinks she & her hubby should be facing some kind of charges, breaking the cycle that it is not OK to be negligent. Personally, I wish prisons had really good counseling & education systems, because of most of the prisoners are going to be out walking among us sooner than we think it should be :crazy:.

Sorry for such a long post & Happy New Year to you!

Filly
01-01-2012, 02:12 AM
I was molested by my oldest brother for 7 years. When I finally told a teacher, who alerted authorities, my brother was arrested at his college & my parents were called to come to my school, where they were told what was going on. In front of the principal, my mom was solicitous & nice to me, but as soon as we were in the car to go home, she turned on me & wanted to know why I'd made up such lies about my brother. He admitted that he'd abused me & my mother STILL refused to believe it. To this day, my entire family protects my brother & maintains he's a great guy. Even one of my sisters who was also abused by him (he molested both her & me on our parents' bed). The story that my family maintains is that I lied about my brother for attention. The fact that he was convicted of a class A felony means nothing except that I was horribly malicious in trying to wreck his life.

What's my point? I'm not horribly damaged even though I spent my life in an environment where molestation was an "okay" thing & the victim was blamed & demeaned & treated like crap once the truth came out. I grew up pretty screwed up, but counseling & choosing to cut my biological family out of my life so that the cycle of abuse could be broken & my own children could be spared the crap I went through was the route I chose.

I know it's not an easy road for survivors of incest, but dang it, TS didn't have to choose to give her children to a convicted felon!!! I don't care HOW bad her childhood was! I DON'T CARE how challenging her life has been. There's no good excuse in my book for not taking care of your kids. Absolutely zero. As such, I am so thoroughly disgusted by the adults involved in this case that I want to.... well, I can't say 'cuz it would get me a T.O. :mad:




Please know I am sorry for the pain you have suffered. Myte and KimB as well.

my_tee_mouse
01-01-2012, 02:15 AM
I can agree with your above post & can understand where you are coming from in your others; one of my friends said something similar...after I was talking about buying a pitch-fork :crazy: My DH is from a large family, dirt poor, his gym shoes were made from a bicycle tire on the bottom sown to socks; yeah he got beat up a lot. He was sexually abused for a short period around 5 or 6 from an uncle when he stayed at Grandmas but physically abused by Dad the rest of the time. The kids all started working when they were 6-7 years old it was horrible & have cried over some of the stories. They are sorry CPS didn't take them away, which wasn't really available then & Ma had a shot-gun by the door.

Now 6 out of the 8 are well-off (due to the old work-ethic, even though they didn't finish high school), great parents (a little strict maybe), very close to their children, good citizens, well respected in the community, etc. I asked a number of them, how did you break the cycle, what made the difference for you? Most of them said, "we watched other families & learned from them". Only one has had counseling, but I think it also helped watching the older sibling break-out & my parents became like Big Brother/Sisters took them places. We didn't know about the abuse until much later; they all buried it. I only found out about my hubby about 5 years ago, so after about 22 years of marriage he tells me & now he feels so free, he feels comfortable telling others.

DH has been following this story from me & NG. I asked him what he thought about the mother/step-father. He feels she probably was abused, the family connections, etc. but that is no excuse for not seeing the HUGE RED flags all over the place & allowing your children to be in this guys 'care'. Because of the family connections she had to know about MP & the 13 yr. old & yet she willingly let him babysit. He believes A. was groomed to be quiet, because she was taught "it's wrong", therefore they know the difference. He thinks she & her hubby should be facing some kind of charges, breaking the cycle that it is not OK to be negligent. Personally, I wish prisons had really good counseling & education systems, because of most of the prisoners are going to be out walking among us sooner than we think it should be :crazy:.

Sorry for such a long post & Happy New Year to you!
Take heart in knowing that there are some prisons that have really good counseling and education systems! And from them come many of the success stories that give me hope, passion, and compassion!

We need to make folks do the time...yep...and go through the programs. I've seen many a folk that started a program announcing that they were just going through the motions, only to realize that others were doing the work the programs allowed and were better off for it. And then suddenly the "going through the motions" person starting working the program.

That being said...not everyone will get the benefits of programs. So we don't just rubber stamp people who have gone through the program. They should have to prove they've done the work. And for Gawd sakes....we don't let abusers plead down!!!

mikeysmommom
01-01-2012, 02:18 AM
I began fearing what I can only hope is the worst once gma began blaming Aliahna and praising MP. That made me want to smack her ( sorry but I did). But more than that, I the worst suspicions of some evil network in which the family was complicit if not actively involved. I won't say anymore cuz I don't want to spend 2012 in Coventry, lol

Evil network is my thinking also................Sickening:furious: I am almost afraid of just how horrible her life was :furious:

SuziQ
01-01-2012, 02:27 AM
I was molested by my oldest brother for 7 years. When I finally told a teacher, who alerted authorities, my brother was arrested at his college & my parents were called to come to my school, where they were told what was going on. In front of the principal, my mom was solicitous & nice to me, but as soon as we were in the car to go home, she turned on me & wanted to know why I'd made up such lies about my brother. He admitted that he'd abused me & my mother STILL refused to believe it. To this day, my entire family protects my brother & maintains he's a great guy. Even one of my sisters who was also abused by him (he molested both her & me on our parents' bed). The story that my family maintains is that I lied about my brother for attention. The fact that he was convicted of a class A felony means nothing except that I was horribly malicious in trying to wreck his life.

What's my point? I'm not horribly damaged even though I spent my life in an environment where molestation was an "okay" thing & the victim was blamed & demeaned & treated like crap once the truth came out. I grew up pretty screwed up, but counseling & choosing to cut my biological family out of my life so that the cycle of abuse could be broken & my own children could be spared the crap I went through was the route I chose.

I know it's not an easy road for survivors of incest, but dang it, TS didn't have to choose to give her children to a convicted felon!!! I don't care HOW bad her childhood was! I DON'T CARE how challenging her life has been. There's no good excuse in my book for not taking care of your kids. Absolutely zero. As such, I am so thoroughly disgusted by the adults involved in this case that I want to.... well, I can't say 'cuz it would get me a T.O. :mad:

BBM. Thank you! The myth that abusers go on to abuse is probably the only shame I carry as an adult abuse victim and makes me hesitant to share my history. It's a myth that is simply not true. The few that choose to inflict the same pain they receive....they no longer are victims, they are perps.

zoomom
01-01-2012, 02:27 AM
The guy smokes a cigar in the early hours of the morning in a trailer with three sleeping kids???? That's not screwed up or suspicious enough??? The interviewer must have been shifting around and shaking his or her head in complete disgust and disbelief...only to look at the members of Aliahna's family sitting there and backing him up. WTH? BARF


My hubby's first comment was that he went to buy a cigar to turn it into a blunt.

Dee10
01-01-2012, 02:31 AM
MP is a con-man, he had gotten through life that way. You would have thought though when he went to the 7-ll to dump the bags & get on tape in case he needed a back-up alibi, he would have at least gotten a jug of milk that he could have said was for "cereal for the girls", but I don't think MP could help himself to buy that cigar, I really think he was pleased & proud somehow; he deserved it & why that is why he gave that particular detail to the press along with kissing the top of her head. http://www.websleuths.com/forums/images/smilies/ffj/too%20much%20info.gif

Filly
01-01-2012, 02:32 AM
There's the thing...we look at little girls and get so angry when we see that they've been groomed. But when those groomed little girls grow up and have absolutely no concept of what is right and wrong...we condemn them? At what moment does the magic wand get waved over these "groomed little girls" that turns them into mothers who have any sense about how to protect their own? And no, it is not necessarily waved when we groomed little girls become mothers. And yes, I said we.

Unless and until someone presents proof that this mother...whose father was a RSO...whose mother herself is obviously easily snookered...offered up her daughter...unless and until someone can show me that this mother at some point got that this person who obviously knows what to say and when to say it to sway people his way...and turned her daughter over anyway...unless and until someone can show me that this mother does not have bona fide medical issues that added to the eddy of incidents that led to this horrible, deplorable conclusion...then I absolutely refuse to condemn this woman.

This post speaks volumes and I wanted to thank you for it, Myte.

Your "magic wand" about smacked me in the head. I know someone exactly that would fit this profile. Abandoned by mom at age 3 and left in a house alone with almost as young brothers and as far as she can recall without turning into a basket case a dead infant. Sexual abuse by biological dad and yeah even that young she remembers. It comes in sort of streams.

Sent to an orphanage. Seperated from her brothers. Never got adopted, but sure enoug spend time enough foster homes. One being where she was sexually abused daily.

When I look at her I see a 3 year old sometimes. Certainly she had a wand waved over her as she trusted not a soul with her girls. She's an all around mom's mom. A phenomenal mother and more given the fact the only one she knew abandoned her. Her girls are her life, and people know this.

Hmmmmm what people don't know is she has a son. A son who was sexually abused by her current husband as a kid. To her he's a liar. Never happened. She knows my journey so she knows how I feel about this, but sticks to her guns. It saddens me, but this is when I see that strong, nobody will ever hurt my girls or grandgirls, I'm nurturer personified turn into the 3 year old. If that makes sense?

Do I believe her son? 100%. Does she? I think she does. He never touched her girls. If she were to say she did believe him I somehow think she'll finally do herself in.

Again thank you for that reality.

billisbobby
01-01-2012, 02:33 AM
Hi, first post here though I've been lurking here and there for about a year. I don't have cable so am not able to follow this case anywhere except online.

I have a few random thoughts/questions to throw out there. My apologies if they have already been brought up.

- I'm reading conflicting reports of MP's account of the night. In the newspaper report recently posted MP says he came in after going to the store and kissed her on the forehead. I seem to recall in a previous report that he said he walked in and assumed she was sleeping on the chair but it turned out to be a ple of clothes instead. I know it doesnt matter now because he has confessed. Just wanted to point that out.
snip


Nice to meet you! Great post and great questions.
Many of the news reports pop up on you tube. You may be able to view cable news shows there.

(Does your nic mean you have a fear of children? lol :crazy:)

billisbobby
01-01-2012, 02:37 AM
I think Alihana would be in second grade right? I'd like to know if any of her teachers sensed that something was going on. Also did she see a dr. regularly for check ups, sick visits or vaccines? imoo

mikeysmommom
01-01-2012, 02:38 AM
Ignorance of the law is never an excuse.................Ignorance of protecting your child should never be excused............I personally pray 2 Sisters never live with those 2 adults again.Mother bears responsibility in this child's death,she deserves a jail cell IMO.Only victim here is Aliahna................She should have NEVER brought her child any near a child molester.............he deserved to die alone instead a precious child died.MOM was it worth it?A daughters life for free rent?IMO no excuse for leaving your children with scum.Sick to death of stupidity or extreme neglect of children where is personal accountability ,responsibility..........Sorry but mom gets no sympathy from me if anything she makes me ill.

Filly
01-01-2012, 02:39 AM
My hubby's first comment was that he went to buy a cigar to turn it into a blunt.

Oh I bet he's right. I didn't think of that. I wonder if they found the wrapper? Philly Blunt flavored. The young folks always are buying them at the gas station.

mysteriew
01-01-2012, 02:40 AM
One thing that points me away from the mother setting up her child is that all three of the kids were with him. Usually if a mother is pimping a kid, she will only send that kid.

But keeping the kids together, that is usually a protective measure. I know for myself I tended to be more leinent with what my kids were allowed to do, if there was more than one of them.

Somehow I can see how this was arranged. Mom having the flu, being ill. MP being 'nice' offering assistance. Maybe the kids even sensed that it would be 'party time' with staying up late and watching TV at his house, they may have wanted to go with him for all I know. Kids are like that sometimes.

Yes he had a criminal record. But his criminal record wasn't against kids. And believe me, in some areas a criminal record isn't all that uncommon. So since they felt they knew him well, probably felt he wouldn't hurt the kids or disrespect her she let them go.

I have noticed several people have commented on her appearance changing and theorizing that she was on drugs, probably meth. But I haven't seen where she has ever been charged with any drug offenses. Am I wrong about that? What I haven't seen is anyone theorizing that Mom could have some chronic or debilitating illness. She could even be in the early stages of that. I did notice that some media mentioned Mom going to court in a wheelchair?

Oh another thing I noted. There were some comments about the fact that Mom went to authorities to get permission to bring a dog (possibly dangerous) into the city limits for her daughter. Many times in mental health situations, and even in sex abuse situations esp if the child is fearful, a therapy dog will be recommended. Now most cities have certain breeds that have been classified as possibly dangerous, whether the dog itself is known to be dangerous or not. I'm kinda thinking that is what was happening there. Again, not the actions of an uncaring parent since she did go to some trouble to try to get the permissions that were needed.

my_tee_mouse
01-01-2012, 02:40 AM
A (sometimes not-so-subtle) theme permeating through this case's threads is anger at (somebody's) momma for not protecting (them). I submit that in doing so, we are diverting the blame from the perpetrator, which is in fact perpetrating grooming behavior. It's not "his" fault. It's "momma's" fault for not protecting "us." How about we get back to being pizzed at the person who cut this child into bits? And then we can figure out what the heck went wrong with a human being to bring him to this point?

billisbobby
01-01-2012, 02:42 AM
Ignorance of the law is never an excuse.................Ignorance of protecting your child should never be excused............I personally pray 2 Sisters never live with those 2 adults again.Mother bears responsibility in this child's death,she deserves a jail cell IMO.Only victim here is Aliahna................She should have NEVER brought her child any near a child molester.............he deserved to die alone instead a precious child died.MOM was it worth it?A daughters life for free rent?IMO no excuse for leaving your children with scum.Sick to death of stupidity or extreme neglect of children where is personal accountability ,responsibility..........Sorry but mom gets no sympathy from me if anything she makes me ill.
mikeysmommom,
I'm right beside you. The mom knew Alihana was abused by 2 males. Two-- She should have bent over backwards to protect her child. :banghead:
Instead it seems she moved into the middle of pedophile haven trailer court. :furious:
bbm
imoo

billisbobby
01-01-2012, 02:44 AM
A (sometimes not-so-subtle) theme permeating through this case's threads is anger at (somebody's) momma for not protecting (them). I submit that in doing so, we are diverting the blame from the perpetrator, which is in fact perpetrating grooming behavior. It's not "his" fault. It's "momma's" fault for not protecting "us." How about we get back to being pizzed at the person who cut this child into bits? And then we can figure out what the heck went wrong with a human being to bring him to this point?
Respectfully, I'm pizzed at the person who probably raped, killed and cut her little body up. I'm pizzed that this abuse even happened to this child AGAIN.
Imoo her mom had a duty to protect her little girl.

I'm sorry mtm but this mom gets no pass from me either. She allowed a SO to babysit her children.

my_tee_mouse
01-01-2012, 02:49 AM
I'm pizzed at the person who probably raped, killed and cut her little body up. I'm pizzed that this abuse even happened to this child AGAIN.
Imoo her mom had a duty to protect her little girl.

I'm sorry mtm but this mom gets no pass from me either. She allowed a RSO to babysit her children.

Hold on, now. Did she know he was an RSO? Through all the "this person knew this person knew this person" stuff we've seen...did this mother actually know he was an RSO?

mysteriew
01-01-2012, 02:51 AM
Hold on, now. Did she know he was an RSO? Through all the "this person knew this person knew this person" stuff we've seen...did this mother actually know he was an RSO?

Was he an RSO? I know there were allegations against him with the 13 yo, but I thought that it never went through court? Thus he wouldn't be an RSO.

billisbobby
01-01-2012, 02:53 AM
There are more than a few articles here and on the net that reference this ****s harming children and sending pics of his genitals to a 13 year old.


If need be I can DROP the R in RSO and post sex offender.
imoo

billisbobby
01-01-2012, 02:56 AM
http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/...57f0defb9074d5

Slain Ind. girl's grandfather was sex offender

By TOM COYNE 27 Dec

FORT WAYNE, Ind. (AP) — To assist her dying father, Tarah Souders made a choice: She moved her three young girls to a run-down trailer park in rural Indiana to help take care of him as his lungs rotted from emphysema.

She knew it could be dangerous. The park of about two dozen homes was teeming with convicted sex offenders, with one living at nearly every address. She worried about neighbors with sex offense records who had been helping her father get by, according to trailer park residents. And before she arrived, she even asked her father if her children could be at risk for abuse from two specific men — in

Filly
01-01-2012, 02:58 AM
A (sometimes not-so-subtle) theme permeating through this case's threads is anger at (somebody's) momma for not protecting (them). I submit that in doing so, we are diverting the blame from the perpetrator, which is in fact perpetrating grooming behavior. It's not "his" fault. It's "momma's" fault for not protecting "us." How about we get back to being pizzed at the person who cut this child into bits? And then we can figure out what the heck went wrong with a human being to bring him to this point?

Another good point. However as a society and as mother's in particular I think it calls out to that most basic understanding that mother is the protector.

Case in point I'll quote my own mother "They're sick those perverts. They can't help themselves. It's a mother's job to protect her children from that". I absolutely get that. In contrast then isn't it a father's as well?

My mom blurted that out recently about the Sandusky case and I told her she was taking the blame from the abuser. She'd have none of it. Sadly I had to say "Mom was it your fault I was raped as a kid? Could you have known?" She was silent. Of course it wasn't her fault. She allowed me to accompany her best friend and her kids. How could she have known?

In all honesty in my heart I don't believe a woman should have allowed three little girls to share a trailer with a grown man. This especially when her child was already assaulted. Then again it's obvious this "family" isn't Beaver Clevers.

Hippy Chick
01-01-2012, 02:58 AM
I don't know if he was a RSO but anyone with any brains wouldn't leave 3 little girls or little boys for that matter with a 40 year old, single, felon that lived among and was friends with numerous sex offenders, no way no how.... IMO

billisbobby
01-01-2012, 03:02 AM
Plumadore accused of sending explicit messages to 13 year old girl, Aliahna was sexually abused in Centerville

By Kyle Ocker - Daily Iowegian Daily Iowegian

CENTERVILLE —

The family of a slain Indiana girl has significant ties to the Centerville area. The Daily Iowegian has learned that Michael Plumadore, who was charged with killing Aliahna Lemmon Friday, was accused of sending inappropriate text messages to a 13-year-old girl in 2010.

http://dailyiowegian.com/local/x1477...n-Indiana-girl


Thank you krimekat for the links posted in the links thread. :takeabow:

my_tee_mouse
01-01-2012, 03:03 AM
There are more than a few articles here and on the net that reference this ****s harming children and sending pics of his genitals to a 13 year old.


If need be I can DROP the R in RSO and post sex offender.
imoo
Oh I think we can all agree he was that! So...a mother is supposed to know someone is a sex offender?

Is there any evidence that anyone knew any of the (pretty much established) SOs were indeed SOs?

Melanie
01-01-2012, 03:05 AM
There are more than a few articles here and on the net that reference this ****s harming children and sending pics of his genitals to a 13 year old.


If need be I can DROP the R in RSO and post sex offender.
imoo

Aside from the sexual crimes he committed against the 13 year old, TS would have known about his other crimes, right? He seemed to have lived in some of the same places, and Ali's own God-Mother was his "very good friend".

I'd say there's a snowball chance in he11 that she didn't know this guy was a criminal on some level.

With that said, would you let any good family male friend babysit your three girls with a criminal past?

And I'm not even asking her to run a background check! The bio-dad knew him, the grandpappy knew him, the god-mother knew him, and bio-mommy said she'd known him for years. Ya can't tell me not a single one of em didn't know he was a criminal. I'd find that a very difficult pill to swallow.

MOO

Mel

billisbobby
01-01-2012, 03:07 AM
Oh I think we can all agree he was that! So...a mother is supposed to know someone is a sex offender?

Is there any evidence that anyone knew any of the (pretty much established) SOs were indeed SOs?

Here's a snippet from an article I referenced above. The mother WORRIED about moving her children there due to the RSO's.

Here you go--------
she worried about neighbors with sex offense records who had been helping her father get by, according to trailer park residents. And before she arrived, she even asked her father if her children could be at risk for abuse from two specific men

billisbobby
01-01-2012, 03:13 AM
Aside from the sexual crimes he committed against the 13 year old, TS would have known about his other crimes, right? He seemed to have lived in some of the same places, and Ali's own God-Mother was his "very good friend".

I'd say there's a snowball chance in he11 that she didn't know this guy was a criminal on some level.

With that said, would you let any good family male friend babysit your three girls with a criminal past?

And I'm not even asking her to run a background check! The bio-dad knew him, the grandpappy knew him, the god-mother knew him, and bio-mommy said she'd known him for years. Ya can't tell me not a single one of em didn't know he was a criminal. I'd find that a very difficult pill to swallow.

MOO

Mel

Exactly on all points Mel!

Norwegian
01-01-2012, 03:14 AM
Happy New Year!

Look at this gorgeous girl. I agree with Nany Grace that she could be on the cover of a kids magazine. Aliahna, I'm so happy you are in a better place! Too good for this earth you are!

I highly doubt that Aliahna had all the medical problems they are claiming. I think it was psychosomatically and I think the mental labels put on the child was simply her acting out and reacting to her situation.

BTW; do anyone know MP had any kids of his own? I haven't heard of any girlfriends or kids, but would be interesting to know.

mysteriew
01-01-2012, 03:14 AM
I am seeing some assumtions here that so far I don't think we really know.

First Mom's appearance apparently has changed quite a bit according to several comments. And that is being attributed to drugs. That's entirely possible. But I don't see where she has ever been charged with any drug related offenses, or did I miss something? I'd like to point out that chronic or debilitating illnesses can have the same affect. And that could also explain why with a case of the flu she may have felt the need to accept the assistance of care for the kids for a week, because with some illnesses it takes longer to recooperate even over something like flu. Wasn't it in the media that Mom went to court in a wheelchair?

Another thing I am seeing is implications that Mom may have set the child up. She sent all three of the kids with him. That isn't usually the action of someone who is pimping the kid. They usually only send the kid that is involved. They don't want extra witnesses. Also I don't know about other parents, but when mine were little I was always a little more confident that they would be ok if both of my kids were doing an activity. I don't know why I felt that, but I did. She sent all three kids.

I've seen comments about the Mom going to authorities to get permission to bring a dog (possibly a dangerous dog) into the city limits for her disabled daughter. Sometimes in mental health situations, even with sexually abused kids it will be recommended that they get a therapy dog. And some cities ban certain breeds of dogs as being possibly dangerous. I suspect that is what was happening here. She possibly had a therapy dog and it happened to be one of the banned breeds. And if that is what was happening, she went through a lot of effort to make sure her daughter got to keep that dog. Not the actions of an uncaring parent.

He had a criminal record. In some areas a criminal record isn't all that unusual. And from what I have seen his criminal record wasn't for harming kids. (I myself actually know several people with criminal records, with drug/drug related crimes so common it isn't as rare as it used to be) She had evidently known the guy for some time. Family and even the kids father said they thought he was ok. So even though he had a record, I would guess that he had been good at hiding any potential for harm.

Since the allegations on the 13 yo weren't criminally charged it is hard to tell if the family was even aware of them. But if they were I suspect that he probably had a cover story for it.

jjenny
01-01-2012, 03:16 AM
Her two other children are six year old. They are not going to be much or any protection for an 8 year old.

mysteriew
01-01-2012, 03:20 AM
http://www.journalgazette.net/article/20111228/LOCAL07/312289939/1002/LOCAL

n 2005, Lemmon was charged with three counts of child molestation, according to Journal Gazette archives.

According to a probable cause affidavit, Lemmon had performed various sexual acts on a young girl from 1996 to 2003.

Ok this is new to me. Do you know if he was convicted? The article wasn't really clear on that. Was he registered? Was that in Fla. as it appears that he was living in Fla. during at least part of that time period.

mikeysmommom
01-01-2012, 03:21 AM
A (sometimes not-so-subtle) theme permeating through this case's threads is anger at (somebody's) momma for not protecting (them). I submit that in doing so, we are diverting the blame from the perpetrator, which is in fact perpetrating grooming behavior. It's not "his" fault. It's "momma's" fault for not protecting "us." How about we get back to being pizzed at the person whos cut this child into bits? And then we can figure out what the heck went wrong with a human being to bring him to this point?

I will never stop being pizzzed at a mom who s out right neglect and IMO if your child is abused by 2 different men and finally she is cut into bits by a third some thing really wrong is going on within her household.As far the monster who cut this child into bits? I do not care to figure out what the heck went wrong with him to bring him to this point.He needs to be put to death as soon has possible,he is not human in my eyes.I do not care about his excuses.I am sick to death of so called parents:banghead: harming directly or indirectly CAUSE or ALLOW the death of their child:furious:maybe figuring them out might help us understand how in the hell to stop it from happening to other children.:furious:

billisbobby
01-01-2012, 03:25 AM
Ok this is new to me. Do you know if he was convicted? The article wasn't really clear on that. Was he registered? Was that in Fla. as it appears that he was living in Fla. during at least part of that time period.

I don't know mysteriew but I'll see if I can find out.
imoo

Melanie
01-01-2012, 03:29 AM
I will never stop being pizzzed at a mom who s out right neglect and IMO if your child is abused by 2 different men and finally she is cut into bits by a third some thing really wrong is going on within her household.As far the monster who cut this child into bits? I do not care to figure out what the heck went wrong with him to bring him to this point.He needs to be put to death as soon has possible,he is not human in my eyes.I do not care about his excuses.I am sick to death of so called parents:banghead: harming directly or indirectly CAUSE or ALLOW the death of their child:furious:maybe figuring them out might help us understand how in the hell to stop it from happening to other children.:furious:

You'll get no argument from me MM.

:banghead::furious:

my_tee_mouse
01-01-2012, 03:29 AM
Here's a snippet from an article I referenced above. The mother WORRIED about moving her children there due to the RSO's.

Here you go--------

I knew that! Good grief, I guess that reminds me how late it is. Facts are starting to go around in circles. I was actually wondering if there was a way for the mother to know this particular "person" was an SO. I think.

I want to thank everyone who has shared their personal stories and given their opinions. IMO, this is the way we all learn and grow.

And for 2012, I wish this:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jNXocCzNq8Y&feature=fvst

billisbobby
01-01-2012, 03:32 AM
Ok this is new to me. Do you know if he was convicted? The article wasn't really clear on that. Was he registered? Was that in Fla. as it appears that he was living in Fla. during at least part of that time period.

I deleted my post. I humbly apologize. That name and reference is for the grandfather...not the perp.

:blushing: Sorry mysterview.

Melanie
01-01-2012, 03:34 AM
Thank you my_tee_mouse for sharing such a sweet video (my first view for 2012)! Dang it if that didn't make me cry!

Mel

billisbobby
01-01-2012, 03:37 AM
I want to know how this judge feels now.
Court records obtained by the newspaper state that Plumadore was allegedly "stalking her, sending her explicit sexual text messages and photographs." Plumadore faced a petition for relief of domestic abuse in that case, but an Iowa judge later dismissed that petition.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/chi-ap-in-indiana-girlsdea,0,7111398.story

Melanie
01-01-2012, 03:39 AM
From what I understand, the mother of the 13 year old didn't file a criminal complaint against MP - only a civil request for a protection order. I haven't seen any evidence that the mother followed up with the police/or made a report.

MOO

Mel

Plumadore was accused of sexually harassing Iowa girl
13-year-old's mom asked for protective order; request was dismissed

In Appanoose County, Plumadore didn't face criminal charges, and the woman's petition on behalf of her daughter was the only complaint on record, according to the clerk's office. A judge told the woman she should take her complaints to police or an attorney, according to court documents.

Source: http://www.news-sentinel.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20111231/NEWS/111239935

Melanie
01-01-2012, 03:42 AM
I want to know how this judge feels now.


http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/chi-ap-in-indiana-girlsdea,0,7111398.story

I would think without a criminal complaint the judge had his hands tied, as I've never heard of getting a protective order without a call to the police first. I believe the mother was told to go to the police or an attorney first -- which kinda makes sense and makes me wonder why she didn't do so (that I know of).

MOO

Mel

billisbobby
01-01-2012, 03:44 AM
I agree Mel. What could be the reason the mother of the 13 year old didn't go to police?

Lori_TX
01-01-2012, 03:47 AM
I am going to start out 2012 with my 100th post!! :)

I just want to say that following these cases here on WS, I find myself losing hope in humanity. As if there is nothing but despair for so many people, and this case in particular is an extremely difficult one for me (as I am sure it is for all of you). How can these things happen to such innocent souls? It's pure evil IMO. Anyway, since this case began, I have caught myself feeling very hopeless. But after being so emotional all day about the start of a new year, and for the first time feeling no hope for something better, I realized something. I realized that the good in the world and the hope for a better tomorrow was staring me in the face! All of you that are here on WS, all of you that care about the victims and give them a voice. You are what is good in the world! The compassion and kindness that emanates throughout these threads is amazing, and I just want to say that I am grateful to be a part of it!

Norwegian - you are so right - Ali was too good for this earth. I have to believe that she is looking down and knows there are so many people who have been touched by her, and who love her and will fight for justice for her.

So thank you everyone for being amazingly kind and compassionate and BRILLIANT when it comes to these cases that are at times unfathomable! Thank you for reminding me that there IS good and that hope still exists!

Happy New Year! :)

mikeysmommom
01-01-2012, 03:49 AM
Did Michael Plumadore have FB friends in Weston?On Aliayah Lunsford thread it was posted he did.Does anyone know?

Hippy Chick
01-01-2012, 04:07 AM
You'll get no argument from me MM.

:banghead::furious:

No arguments here either, in fact I couldn't agree more

Donjeta
01-01-2012, 07:22 AM
http://www.cbs12.com/video/c/1143359274/local-news/1349445034001/wpec-localnews

Life seems to have goe downhill since MP became a fugitive from justice. MP went from owning a home (which he may not have lived in though) to being a transient with no income, more or less.

If he didn't live in the home he owned, the question is, where did he live? He does not appear to be the hermit type who wouldn't be seen by his neighbors.

SilkySifaka
01-01-2012, 07:44 AM
To a great extent I will agree with you. But in this case somehow the previous molester got prosecuted. I don't know how it came to the attention of authorities, but it did. And if Mom didn't cooperate in that prosecution then likely she wouldn't have kepr custody of the kids. And she did keep them.
So at least one point she did stand up for her child.

So at this point I think it is a little early to assume that Mom was involved or was ignoring a bad situation. The father said he knew the guy and he thought the guy was ok. So maybe neither of the parents knew about the 13 year old or maybe they were told some story about a vindictive ex wife or something. None of the family seems to have believed this guy would have harmed any of the kids. Somehow I believe that.

I think some things have taken on a life of their own here. I see the mom and family as having horrific deplorable judgement in where to live and in sending the girls to be babysat by Plumadore but I have seen no evidence they are involved in child porn or sending the girls to be abused on purpose as seems to be the accusations on the forum.

The fact we know Ali was abused two times before and the abusers caught tells us that somehow her mom allowed/pursued a criminal case and we have heard nothing to suggest it was uncooperative as you said.

I understand the anger at her for moving into pedo park to be near her dad and also at her letting someone she knew for a few years and trusted look after the girls. I am angry as well at that.

I just don't see it as any more than lousy parenting skills -which is a lot but then if it was a crime they couldn't build enough jails fast enough.

MP conned her and her family and psychopaths do that. I think Occams Razor says that is the most likely reason the girls were with him, not a nefarious purpose on the part of mom and family.

You add ignorance and bad judgement together and you end up with a mom who made choices that in themselves led to the horrific death of her daughter. Not criminal choices. She sure hasn't done the sleuthing we have (she should have done some but who imagines the nice guy who looked after granddad is a child killer if you are a gullible type)

I don't think she is a monster, until someone shows me evidence I have to believe she is grieving (and yes some people can't stand to look at reminders especially when they feel guilty because some action of theirs allowed the situation to develop) and horror struck.

Parents OFTEN stand up and defend the murderer of their child before evidence is found that they did it when it is someone close to the family. I think it is natural, to contemplate that you made that sort of terrible mistake in judgement is to much for most to handle unless they have to. I don't hold it against Gma or mom that they didn't believe he could do it until he confessed.

jmo

Etilema
01-01-2012, 07:49 AM
I was molested by my oldest brother for 7 years. When I finally told a teacher, who alerted authorities, my brother was arrested at his college & my parents were called to come to my school, where they were told what was going on. In front of the principal, my mom was solicitous & nice to me, but as soon as we were in the car to go home, she turned on me & wanted to know why I'd made up such lies about my brother. He admitted that he'd abused me & my mother STILL refused to believe it. To this day, my entire family protects my brother & maintains he's a great guy. Even one of my sisters who was also abused by him (he molested both her & me on our parents' bed). The story that my family maintains is that I lied about my brother for attention. The fact that he was convicted of a class A felony means nothing except that I was horribly malicious in trying to wreck his life.

What's my point? I'm not horribly damaged even though I spent my life in an environment where molestation was an "okay" thing & the victim was blamed & demeaned & treated like crap once the truth came out. I grew up pretty screwed up, but counseling & choosing to cut my biological family out of my life so that the cycle of abuse could be broken & my own children could be spared the crap I went through was the route I chose.

I know it's not an easy road for survivors of incest, but dang it, TS didn't have to choose to give her children to a convicted felon!!! I don't care HOW bad her childhood was! I DON'T CARE how challenging her life has been. There's no good excuse in my book for not taking care of your kids. Absolutely zero. As such, I am so thoroughly disgusted by the adults involved in this case that I want to.... well, I can't say 'cuz it would get me a T.O. :mad:

May I ask, why did you not go to your parents with this info before going to teachers--did you already sense that your parents would not be supportive?

SilkySifaka
01-01-2012, 07:49 AM
I beg to differ, and most of the clients I've dealt with would also. Victims might be totally confused, and some little voice deep inside tells them that something isn't right, but no, it has not been my experience that victims know that what happened to them is wrong, because in many cases, the very people that are abusing them are the ones that are supposed to be teaching them right and wrong.

No one said one word about someone who is abused going on to abuse. I have been abused. Thrice over...babysitter, Bible-thumping grandfather, older friend of older friend. I have never abused anyone. However...have I trusted sociopaths and others who offer a kind hand and word? Yep. You betcha. Because during my "formative years," those people who were supposed to be the paragon of virtue did unspeakable things to me, so the people who said the "right things" must be right, right?

Where has it been shown that this mother did anything to participate in drugs or child porn or prostitution? Where? Where has it been shown that she is guilty of anything other than trusting someone who worked hard at being trusted? Show me. Anybody. Show me. And yet she's been accused of everything and anything. Where are the links, folks? Where's the proof that this woman is engaged in all the awful things she's been accused of?

I would like to see the evidence as well.

IMO

p.s. In no way am I defending her choices as a parent..I think they were deplorable. That is a far cry from child porn, meth and prostitution

Etilema
01-01-2012, 07:52 AM
I think some things have taken on a life of their own here. I see the mom and family as having horrific deplorable judgement in where to live and in sending the girls to be babysat by Plumadore but I have seen no evidence they are involved in child porn or sending the girls to be abused on purpose as seems to be the accusations on the forum.

The fact we know Ali was abused two times before and the abusers caught tells us that somehow her mom allowed/pursued a criminal case and we have heard nothing to suggest it was uncooperative as you said.

I understand the anger at her for moving into pedo park to be near her dad and also at her letting someone she knew for a few years and trusted look after the girls. I am angry as well at that.

I just don't see it as any more than lousy parenting skills -which is a lot but then if it was a crime they couldn't build enough jails fast enough.

MP conned her and her family and psychopaths do that. I think Occams Razor says that is the most likely reason the girls were with him, not a nefarious purpose on the part of mom and family.

You add ignorance and bad judgement together and you end up with a mom who made choices that in themselves led to the horrific death of her daughter. Not criminal choices. She sure hasn't done the sleuthing we have (she should have done some but who imagines the nice guy who looked after granddad is a child killer if you are a gullible type)

I don't think she is a monster, until someone shows me evidence I have to believe she is grieving (and yes some people can't stand to look at reminders especially when they feel guilty because some action of theirs allowed the situation to develop) and horror struck.

Parents OFTEN stand up and defend the murderer of their child before evidence is found that they did it when it is someone close to the family. I think it is natural, to contemplate that you made that sort of terrible mistake in judgement is to much for most to handle unless they have to. I don't hold it against Gma or mom that they didn't believe he could do it until he confessed.

jmo

But, if I am not mistaken, Grandma continued to defend this guy AFTER he confessed! That's what blows *me* away.

madge
01-01-2012, 07:56 AM
Since she was quite adept on the internet, Facebook and such it should not have been hard for her to search Mike P and find out about his background.

Poor parenting, poor judgement, whatever. Her child is DEAD due to her judgement. Mike P killed her but mommy was sitting at home on the Facebook when she should have been taking care of her.

The buck has to stop somewhere

SilkySifaka
01-01-2012, 08:07 AM
But, if I am not mistaken, Grandma continued to defend this guy AFTER he confessed! That's what blows *me* away.

IIRC there was a clip on NG showing gma defending him but other posters pointed out it was from before he confessed.

Which makes sense to me because i highly highly doubt that gma or anyone else was ready to be interviewed on camera after discovering their grand daughters head was found in a freezer with other body parts and a torso in a dumpster. And you can't say it wasn't his freezer so i believe the posts that suggested it was an earlier clip played the day of the confession announcement.

Whatever they may have thought before his arrest, whether they thought she ran away (with an ODD label it isn't so hard to understand it ran through their mind-i hate kids being labeled with that since its the precurser to sociopathy which isn't diagnosed before 18 and seems she acted out at times..no wonder with her abuse history imo and PTSD in top of it) or someone else took her, I don't think any of them were prepared for a cut up body in baggies.

I have to say imo because I read those posts back on earlier thread but they are there if anyone knows how to find them.

SilkySifaka
01-01-2012, 08:13 AM
Another good point. However as a society and as mother's in particular I think it calls out to that most basic understanding that mother is the protector.

Case in point I'll quote my own mother "They're sick those perverts. They can't help themselves. It's a mother's job to protect her children from that". I absolutely get that. In contrast then isn't it a father's as well?

My mom blurted that out recently about the Sandusky case and I told her she was taking the blame from the abuser. She'd have none of it. Sadly I had to say "Mom was it your fault I was raped as a kid? Could you have known?" She was silent. Of course it wasn't her fault. She allowed me to accompany her best friend and her kids. How could she have known?

In all honesty in my heart I don't believe a woman should have allowed three little girls to share a trailer with a grown man. This especially when her child was already assaulted. Then again it's obvious this "family" isn't Beaver Clevers.

I don't think she should have either but it bothers me when I say that because most men are perfectly decent people who would never dream of hurting a child and there are SO women as well..i mean who would imagine the daughter of a pastor and sunday school teacher would kidnap and rape Sandra Cantu?

However society's mores as they are, it was a really bad idea..yet if you think the person is a wonderful and trusted family friend, are at the end of your rope due to illness etc. (no she shouldn't be but as you said, not the cleavers) then from her point of view there was never any danger. That can be called a lot of things, including horrible judgement, stupid and more but it is not complicit in her childs abuse and murder

IMO

Etilema
01-01-2012, 08:16 AM
But, if I am not mistaken, Grandma continued to defend this guy AFTER he confessed! That's what blows *me* away.

Yes, here it is:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2079419/Aliahna-Lemmon-murder-Killer-babysitter-Michael-Plumadore-poses-cameras.html

"Despite the confession, the little girl's grandmother, Amber Story, stood by Plumadore.

'I don't care what anybody says. Mike did nothing to her. He loves those girls,' she told the News-Sentinel."

Patty G
01-01-2012, 08:22 AM
Yes, here it is:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2079419/Aliahna-Lemmon-murder-Killer-babysitter-Michael-Plumadore-poses-cameras.html

"Despite the confession, the little girl's grandmother, Amber Story, stood by Plumadore.

'I don't care what anybody says. Mike did nothing to her. He loves those girls,' she told the News-Sentinel."

This website is out of the UK and sometimes they pull together things that were said before and mix it in with the present. The statements that the grandmother stated were on Nancy Grace, of which, that show aired only hours before MP was arrested.

IMO, I highly doubt that the grandmother would be supporting MP especially AFTER MP confessed to the police that he killed Ali.

Donjeta
01-01-2012, 08:30 AM
I don't think she should have either but it bothers me when I say that because most men are perfectly decent people who would never dream of hurting a child and there are SO women as well..i mean who would imagine the daughter of a pastor and sunday school teacher would kidnap and rape Sandra Cantu?

However society's mores as they are, it was a really bad idea..yet if you think the person is a wonderful and trusted family friend, are at the end of your rope due to illness etc. (no she shouldn't be but as you said, not the cleavers) then from her point of view there was never any danger. That can be called a lot of things, including horrible judgement, stupid and more but it is not complicit in her childs abuse and murder

IMO


FORT WAYNE, Ind. - To assist her dying father, Tarah Souders made a choice: She moved her three young girls to a run-down trailer park in rural Indiana to help take care of him as his lungs rotted from emphysema.

She knew it could be dangerous. The park of about two dozen homes was teeming with convicted sex offenders, with one living at nearly every address. She worried about neighbors with sex offense records who had been helping her father get by, according to trailer park residents. And before she arrived, she even asked her father if her children could be at risk for abuse from two specific men - including a suspect now accused in her daughter's death.

Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/mother-slain-9-year-old-girl-aliahna-lemmon-asked-children-risk-murder-suspect-article-1.997669#ixzz1iDGVaSw6
'

If this article is accurate it doesn't seem like that there was never any danger from her point of view. It seems like she saw the same warning signs we do and chose to ignore them because her child molester father said it was perfectly all right.

Etilema
01-01-2012, 08:31 AM
So, we have talked about the idea that parts of MP's story could be true (though not necessarily). I wonder what he told LE was the reason he decided to haul off and murder Aliahna on his front steps. Because piecing things together, I can imagine that on Wednesday night/early Thursday he might have been molesting her and/or her sisters and she decided to go get her mother (wanted her Mommy), and he was trying to stop her and finally caught her on her way out the door and killed her (because he was at the end of the hall, as we say). Have we established that Wednesday was the girls' first night there? (Perhaps someone else has already suggested this scenario?)

CharlestonGal
01-01-2012, 08:36 AM
Since she was quite adept on the internet, Facebook and such it should not have been hard for her to search Mike P and find out about his background.

Poor parenting, poor judgement, whatever. Her child is DEAD due to her judgement. Mike P killed her but mommy was sitting at home on the Facebook when she should have been taking care of her.

The buck has to stop somewhere

IMHO, there was no reason whatsoever for mom to have sleuthed POS before leaving her children with him. The only information she needed to know was right in front of her nose. Mom DID know that her father was a convicted, registered child molester. Mom DID know that POS was just peachy fine moving in with and taking care of this convicted, registered child molester. Mom DID know that POS actively CHOSE to live in a viper's den of RSO's. He didn't have to live there. He wasn't a RSO himself; but voluntarily chose to live with them and associate with them. POS didn't move to the sex offender park to take care of child molester grandpa; he already lived there by choice. That should have told mom all she needed to know about the values and perspective of POS.

Mom didn't need to sleuth anything. Anyone with an ounce of protective instinct for their children would never allow their children to be anywhere near this convicted, registered child molester or his live-in sidekick, much less given them free 24/7 unsupervised access for a week.

I ask you this - would ANY of you allow your children anywhere near this convicted, registered child molester and his side-kick? Or give your children to either of them for even 5 seconds? I don't think so.

There is no excuse on God's green earth for that. None. Mom knew everything she needed to know about this POS and the danger he and child molester grandpa both posed to her children and she brought them like a lamb to the slaughter nonetheless. She gets no pass from me.

Donjeta
01-01-2012, 08:39 AM
So, we have talked about the idea that parts of MP's story could be true (though not necessarily). I wonder what he told LE was the reason he decided to haul off and murder Aliahna on his front steps. Because piecing things together, I can imagine that on Wednesday night/early Thursday he might have been molesting her and/or her sisters and she decided to go get her mother (wanted her Mommy), and he was trying to stop her and finally caught her on her way out the door and killed her (because he was at the end of the hall, as we say). Have we established that Wednesday was the girls' first night there? (Perhaps someone else has already suggested this scenario?)

BBM IIRC their mother had last seen them on Tuesday when they got off the bus.

Donjeta
01-01-2012, 08:42 AM
IMHO, there was no reason whatsoever for mom to have sleuthed POS before leaving her children with him. The only information she needed to know was right in front of her nose. Mom DID know that her father was a convicted, registered child molester. Mom DID know that POS was just peachy fine moving in with and taking care of this convicted, registered child molester. Mom DID know that POS actively CHOSE to live in a viper's den of RSO's. He didn't have to live there. He wasn't a RSO himself; but voluntarily chose to live with them and associate with them. POS didn't move to the sex offender park to take care of child molester grandpa; he already lived there by choice. That should have told mom all she needed to know about the values and perspective of POS.

Mom didn't need to sleuth anything. Anyone with an ounce of protective instinct for their children would never allow their children to be anywhere near this convicted, registered child molester or his live-in sidekick, much less given them free 24/7 unsupervised access for a week.

I ask you this - would ANY of you allow your children anywhere near this convicted, registered child molester and his side-kick? Or give your children to either of them for even 5 seconds? I don't think so.

There is no excuse on God's green earth for that. None. Mom knew everything she needed to know about this POS and the danger he and child molester grandpa both posed to her children and she brought them like a lamb to the slaughter nonetheless. She gets no pass from me.

Even if you have some steel hard, sound proof and absolutely valid evidence that the grandfather and his sidekick would never hurt these children there is no reason whatsoever to trust any of the other [unusual persons that are not unusual in this trailer park] they are friendly with.

mysteriew
01-01-2012, 09:15 AM
I will never stop being pizzzed at a mom who s out right neglect and IMO if your child is abused by 2 different men and finally she is cut into bits by a third some thing really wrong is going on within her household.As far the monster who cut this child into bits? I do not care to figure out what the heck went wrong with him to bring him to this point.He needs to be put to death as soon has possible,he is not human in my eyes.I do not care about his excuses.I am sick to death of so called parents:banghead: harming directly or indirectly CAUSE or ALLOW the death of their child:furious:maybe figuring them out might help us understand how in the hell to stop it from happening to other children.:furious:

It is easy to blame the parent when the child gets molested or raped. But the truth is, it only takes an instant. And I don't care how good a parent you are, at some point every parent has to take their eyes off a child.

When my gf molested me we were in his home. It happened in the bathroom. And my GM and both parents were in the living room. Even I don't blame my parents and don't believe they knew. And my Dad never knew, my Mom only found out a few years ago. Because I never told.

So it is possible that the child was molested and didn't tell until after she was molested the second time.

Maybe the parent should have never trusted them with their child. But at some points in your life you have to trust someone. And it could have been a very trusted person. After all child predators are some doctors, teachers, preachers, youth leaders, grandparents, brothers, sisters, nephews, etc. Maybe the parent never knew their tendencies, or maybe naively felt this person would never violate their trust by molesting their child.

Knowing those things I hesitate to blame the mother until more circumstances are known.

mysteriew
01-01-2012, 09:24 AM
I would think without a criminal complaint the judge had his hands tied, as I've never heard of getting a protective order without a call to the police first. I believe the mother was told to go to the police or an attorney first -- which kinda makes sense and makes me wonder why she didn't do so (that I know of).

MOO

Mel

But the key is that he left it up to the mother to get LE involved. If he was a hospital worker, Dr. or teacher he could have been prosecuted for not reporting it to LE. Because they are mandated to report when they are aware that child abuse is happening. Yet the judge after hearing allegations that child abuse was happening didn't make a report and get things started.

Instead he told the mother to go to LE or an attorney (what was an attorney supposed to do for the child.)

If the judge had made a report MP might have been in jail.

yllek
01-01-2012, 09:28 AM
We know that Aliahna is dead and dismembered and that Plumadore did it.

We know that Plumadore has a violent temper based on his past assault charges.
We don't know yet if he sexually assaulted Ali or her sisters. Based on his alleged stalking of a 13 year old last year and based on his association with RSOs, I think it's highly likely, but we don't know yet for sure. I hope the ME is able to make a determination.

We don't know if TS was conned by MP or if she and her husband were simply apathetic about leaving their girls with a violent felon for a week. Could it be even worse; could they have actually known that one or more of the girls would be abused and somehow benefitted from turning them over to Plumadore? Yep, it's possible. But, right now, we don't know if the girls ended up in the care of Plumadore, with not parental supervision whatsoever, because of ingorance, apathy, or mailicious intent. LE is investigating all of these possibilities, imo.

We don't know (at least I don't) that the family was living in poverty or whether TS or her husband were ever sexually abused as children. There are molesters (and rapists and killers) who keep it very separate from their own family life. It wouldn't surprise me at all if TS had been sexually abused as a child given Gramps RSO status and the company he kept, but we don't know that's the case yet. For me, if she was abused as a child, it is no excuse for not keeping her chidren close at hand (or at least checked-in on a few doors down) and protected after at least two previous incidents of sexual abuse against one of her children. But, at this point, we don't whether TS was a childhood abuse victim or not.

We don't know if Plumadore really bludgeoned Ali on the steps as he says, or if he killed her elsewhere. We don't know if Ali did something that set the psycho's violent temper into overdrive, or if he killed her to keep her from revealing crimes he was committing against her and/or her sisters, or if he just effin felt like it and enjoyed it. Whatever his motive, Plumadore is twisted, evil and robbed the world of an innocent. He is a deplorable human being. My opinion of Plumadore will not change if it is confirmed that he was poverty-stricken and/or he was abused as a child. These conditions won't excuse or mitigate doing what he did to Ali any more than these conditions would excuse or mitigate Ali's parents IF they had any knowledge that Plumadore would hurt their child(ren) in any way whatsoever when they handed the little girls over to Plumadore's control (whether they suspected he would kill one of them or not).

I hope we learn more about the circumstances leading to Ali's demise. But, even if we don't, I am confident that LE is looking at everything and will take appropriate action if anyone else committed crimes against Ali or her siblings (negligence, exploitation, etc).

Happy New Year all...

Donjeta
01-01-2012, 09:37 AM
It is easy to blame the parent when the child gets molested or raped. But the truth is, it only takes an instant. And I don't care how good a parent you are, at some point every parent has to take their eyes off a child.

When my gf molested me we were in his home. It happened in the bathroom. And my GM and both parents were in the living room. Even I don't blame my parents and don't believe they knew. And my Dad never knew, my Mom only found out a few years ago. Because I never told.

So it is possible that the child was molested and didn't tell until after she was molested the second time.

Maybe the parent should have never trusted them with their child. But at some points in your life you have to trust someone. And it could have been a very trusted person. After all child predators are some doctors, teachers, preachers, youth leaders, grandparents, brothers, sisters, nephews, etc. Maybe the parent never knew their tendencies, or maybe naively felt this person would never violate their trust by molesting their child.

Knowing those things I hesitate to blame the mother until more circumstances are known.

JMO but there is a world of difference between letting your child out of your sight for a few minutes to go to the bathroom and letting your children live for days with a man hanging out with pedophiles in Pedo Park. There is a world of difference between trusting a doctor, a teacher or a minister and trusting a known associate of known child molesters.

Yes, we have to trust someone at some points of our lives but it does not follow that we should ever trust a transient felon who is known to have sexually harassed a 13 year old.

CJMAJORGIRL24
01-01-2012, 09:37 AM
Did Michael Plumadore have FB friends in Weston?On Aliayah Lunsford thread it was posted he did.Does anyone know?

Not that I have found. Although these two cases are VERY similar. I compared MP to LL :)...and someone thought he had friends there!

bam
01-01-2012, 09:42 AM
What is best investigative tool to do search on people tat give best reports?

mysteriew
01-01-2012, 09:44 AM
I agree Mel. What could be the reason the mother of the 13 year old didn't go to police?

I am guessing that after it became known what he was doing the father probably kicked him out, and after the court case he may have stopped trying to contact the girl.

If he was leaving their girl alone, many parents would then hesitate to start an investigation.

When a child is approached by someone most parents are concerned about one thing. Their child. Many parents don't look ahead at the fact that if he would attempt with their child then he will attempt with other children.

So if they get the action stopped with their child and no harm was done, then they won't want to have their child go through the pain, embarrassment and trouble of an investigation.

madge
01-01-2012, 09:51 AM
not.giving.mom.a.pass! Sorry folks. I checked out the lady I chose to do my pet sitting while my husband was in the hospital for 42 days. This woman chose to move her kids in a snakepit. She had options and it seems she NEVER took care of good ole dad herself anyway. I' venture to say she was running from something shady IMHO.

I hope state does not return those children to her. She says she is very ill so she should be happy they are in foster care and NOT being in the care of someone that is a rapist.

mysteriew
01-01-2012, 10:12 AM
JMO but there is a world of difference between letting your child out of your sight for a few minutes to go to the bathroom and letting your children live for days with a man hanging out with pedophiles in Pedo Park. There is a world of difference between trusting a doctor, a teacher or a minister and trusting a known associate of known child molesters.

Yes, we have to trust someone at some points of our lives but it does not follow that we should ever trust a transient felon who is known to have sexually harassed a 13 year old.

BBM

Devil's advocate here

Ahhh but did he really sexually harass the 13 year old? If the judge really thought that he had harassed the child wouldn't you think the judge would have taken some action? But the judge didn't so that puts it in the realm of he said/she said. I believe he harassed the child. But when the judge fails to take action on it, it decreases the believability of the accusation.

Also the girl was 13. There are various types of 13 year olds, but sometimes they are a mixture of acting like a naive 5 year old and a mature 19 year old. If she saw the 13 year old as being more like the 19 yo acting child, she may not have associated that child with her 9 year old or the 6 year olds. In many cases she may have "blamed the victim" and felt that the child egged him on. Legally it didn't matter what the kid did or if she "egged him on" and for many of us there is the belief that he shouldn't have taken advantage of the child no matter what. But in the outside word, many times that will be included in the judgement.

I don't agree with her decisions and choices in regards to her kids, and some maybe I don't think were very bright. But I know I am more leary of trusting strangers or even friends because of my association here and the things I have seen. But I am also aware that outside of this board, I see these same type of thought processes by otherwise good parents. Because they don't see so much bad stuff happening over and over in other cases they find it hard to believe that a trusted friend could harm one of their own.

badhorsie
01-01-2012, 10:34 AM
On MP's FB page when it was still up, in his albums he had a lot of photos of a girl with darkish hair, in one she was playing a violin. She looked to be aged preteen or early teens. Does anyone know who this was. I don't means names obv. but I am wondering if this was the 13 yo???

Donjeta
01-01-2012, 10:39 AM
BBM

Devil's advocate here

Ahhh but did he really sexually harass the 13 year old? If the judge really thought that he had harassed the child wouldn't you think the judge would have taken some action? But the judge didn't so that puts it in the realm of he said/she said. I believe he harassed the child. But when the judge fails to take action on it, it decreases the believability of the accusation.

Also the girl was 13. There are various types of 13 year olds, but sometimes they are a mixture of acting like a naive 5 year old and a mature 19 year old. If she saw the 13 year old as being more like the 19 yo acting child, she may not have associated that child with her 9 year old or the 6 year olds. In many cases she may have "blamed the victim" and felt that the child egged him on. Legally it didn't matter what the kid did or if she "egged him on" and for many of us there is the belief that he shouldn't have taken advantage of the child no matter what. But in the outside word, many times that will be included in the judgement.

I don't agree with her decisions and choices in regards to her kids, and some maybe I don't think were very bright. But I know I am more leary of trusting strangers or even friends because of my association here and the things I have seen. But I am also aware that outside of this board, I see these same type of thought processes by otherwise good parents. Because they don't see so much bad stuff happening over and over in other cases they find it hard to believe that a trusted friend could harm one of their own.

I think text messages and photos would be verifiable and not just he said she said.

It is quite possible that they blamed the victim, there was some apparent victim blaming even with Aliahna... she's got ADHD, she's got a conduct disorder, she sleepwalked...

JMO but even if it's just he said she said it's enough to keep the suspect from babysitting my children, ever. Better safe than sorry.

CharlestonGal
01-01-2012, 10:43 AM
JMO but there is a world of difference between letting your child out of your sight for a few minutes to go to the bathroom and letting your children live for days with a man hanging out with pedophiles in Pedo Park. There is a world of difference between trusting a doctor, a teacher or a minister and trusting a known associate of known child molesters.

Yes, we have to trust someone at some points of our lives but it does not follow that we should ever trust a transient felon who is known to have sexually harassed a 13 year old.

I think text messages and photos would be verifiable and not just he said she said.

It is quite possible that they blamed the victim, there was some apparent victim blaming even with Aliahna... she's got ADHD, she's got a conduct disorder, she sleepwalked...

JMO but even if it's just he said she said it's enough to keep the suspect from babysitting my children, ever. Better safe than sorry.

My guess would be that mom didn't pursue it because the molester got the heck out of dodge and left town to pursue a new victim when the heat came down.

tiff07
01-01-2012, 10:50 AM
This little girl was 9 years old. She wasn't capable of making judgement calls about people, or decisions about where she should live. She was incapable of protecting herself and she shouldn't have been expected to. It was up to an adult to ensure she was educated about people like MP, it was up to an adult to ensure she lived in a safe stable environment. RIP Aliahna, you are in a lot better place now. There's a different place for people like MP and various 'Uncles' of members of the board here who have been brave enough to share their pain. I only come here, read a blogger who has a site, aside from news, eBay etc on the net, no Facebook, other crime sites or anything. I love WS and wish we had something like this in Australia. I'm having an increasingly hard time reading any defense of anybody outside of Aliahna in this case, she to me is the only real victim, it's best I give myself a TO from any further comment so I will finish by saying I hope justice is served for Aliahna and that everybody affected by abuse on these boards has my utmost empathy and good wishes.

TexasCharm
01-01-2012, 11:01 AM
I think text messages and photos would be verifiable and not just he said she said.
.

I've thought about this. What if the images were deleted? I know they could retrieve texts, but can they retrieve images?

Seems there had to be a question of some kind in the judge's mind.

This whole situation is messed up. At the end of the day, MP is the bad guy - wrapped up with a seemingly dysfunctional (at best) group of people.

Was he just able to take advantage of these not-so-bright folks for all these years?

Are they all connected in some other nefarious way?

I can't help but wonder what day to day life was like for Aliahna and her siblings ... Or for her mom 20 years ago.

I can't help but wonder if Ali were not dead, and continued to live in this scum-infested environment until she was having children of her own - and one of her children became a victim of their environment - we would be screaming for Ali's head on a platter.

Quite the paradox.

This is bigger than "the mom" that we all want to slap around or hang. There is a segment of society that we don't want to believe are out there living like this every single day.

It didn't stop with our own abuse,
It doesn't stop with gpop Lemmon,
And it won't stop with Ali.

I feel so blessed, and inadequate every day.

What am I doing to make someone else's life better?
What more can I do?

Does hatred SOLVE anything??

Sorry for the long post .. Just thinking out loud.

And as usual ... All imo.

mysteriew
01-01-2012, 11:03 AM
When someone, esp a child dies we want to blame someone. Anyone. And in this case there are so many to blame. But the truth is that Plumadore is the one who offered/arranged/agreed to babysit the kids and got access to them. It is Plumadore who killed Aliahna, it is Plumadore who dismembered her. There may have been bad judgement calls by others, but it is Plumadore who killed her. It is Plumadore who actually took the actions.

And it is Plumadore that I will blame.

Ladylub
01-01-2012, 11:17 AM
A (sometimes not-so-subtle) theme permeating through this case's threads is anger at (somebody's) momma for not protecting (them). I submit that in doing so, we are diverting the blame from the perpetrator, which is in fact perpetrating grooming behavior. It's not "his" fault. It's "momma's" fault for not protecting "us." How about we get back to being pizzed at the person who cut this child into bits? And then we can figure out what the heck went wrong with a human being to bring him to this point?

I agree the main person to blame for Aliahna being killed is MP. No doubt about that. I want him to die a horrible death for killing Aliahna. But does mom hold some responsibility for not protecting her children? Yes she does in my opinion. Yes she may have had a hard life herself and if it is right about grandma that saw somewhere else then grandma had a hard life also. But Grandma is responsible for protecting TS and TS is responsible for protecting Aliahna. She knowing took her to a trailer park with known SOs she allowed her daughter to be near her father who is a known SO. She seemed to not care about who her children associated with.
TS may not have been given the mental support she needed to make a better life for her children and one that did not include her making poor decisions in who her children hung around. But where does it stop? We are not supposed to hold mom accountable for her poor choices in life b/c she had a hard life well what if it turns out MP had an even worst life then TS should he be partly excused for his crime b/c he was damaged at a young age also? Many of those who commit crimes are damaged at young ages by poor choices of their families but they should all still be held accountable for their choices.

I do not blame TS for Aliahna's murder but I do fault her for her poor decision making.

concentric
01-01-2012, 11:26 AM
JMO but there is a world of difference between letting your child out of your sight for a few minutes to go to the bathroom and letting your children live for days with a man hanging out with pedophiles in Pedo Park. There is a world of difference between trusting a doctor, a teacher or a minister and trusting a known associate of known child molesters.

Yes, we have to trust someone at some points of our lives but it does not follow that we should ever trust a transient felon who is known to have sexually harassed a 13 year old.
---------

I agree with your post.

Just wanted to remind people, though, that Pedo Parks not only exist amongst those who live in trailer parks, or in poorer communities. They exist amongst the most moneyed and outwardly respected institutions in our society. Power and wealth have been used for decades to hide child molesters, who are as evil as Plumadore, if not more so.

Donjeta
01-01-2012, 11:29 AM
Can a judge judging a civil case start the process of pressing criminal charges against one of the participants in the civil case? Isn't it a conflict of interest?

Lori_TX
01-01-2012, 11:38 AM
Can a judge judging a civil case start the process of pressing criminal charges against one of the participants in the civil case? Isn't it a conflict of interest?

If you are referring to the situation with the 13 year old and Plumadore, I would be interested to know as well. I am pretty sure since the judge could not issue the order at the time, he told the mother to either get in touch with LE or a lawyer to start the correct process. I am also curious to know why that never happened. Maybe it is because he left town after that. He seems to have been pretty successful at evading authorities from all over for quite a while. MOO

passionflower
01-01-2012, 11:43 AM
Last night while reading articles in paper it said 2 girls slept on floor, Ali in recliner (yuck)
and MP on sofa, they watched TV together...........what channels?
Disney or porn?
Also what did these dear children do all day?
Did they go out and play?
Visit friends or were they all captive to that livingroom in front of a TV?
Did he take them any where?
Did they have toys, play dolls..........
that is no life for them while mom is almost next door.
What man wants to have 3 little girls under foot day and night under the age of 9???

mysteriew
01-01-2012, 11:44 AM
Can a judge judging a civil case start the process of pressing criminal charges against one of the participants in the civil case? Isn't it a conflict of interest?

Wouldn't the conflict have ended when he made the decision not to issue the restraining order? At that point there would have been nothing to sit judgement on.

And he wouldn't have been making a judgement on either side. He would have been making a referral to LE or CPS for investigation. And that I know judges can do.

mysteriew
01-01-2012, 11:52 AM
Last night while reading articles in paper it said 2 girls slept on floor, Ali in recliner (yuck)
and MP on sofa, they watched TV together...........what channels?
Disney or porn?
Also what did these dear children do all day?
Did they go out and play?
Visit friends or were they all captive to that livingroom in front of a TV?
Did he take them any where?
Did they have toys, play dolls..........
that is no life for them while mom is almost next door.
What man wants to have 3 little girls under foot day and night under the age of 9???

Personally I get suspicious whenever a man offers to care for children. Esp. when a single never married man or a male teen offers to care for children. But I know that much of that is because of the time I spend here. I know that make me more suspicious.

But I also know that other people don't always see it that way. They see a nice guy who is offering to help them out. Or a guy who likes kids, it is too bad he never found someone to marry and have his own. Or a guy who treats their kids like his nieces and nephews. Or a teen who is a responsible caring person who likes their kids. And to be honest, I think (maybe) there may be some of those out there. Somewhere. But because of my time here I can't get past the ones who are looking for a way to get to kids.

concentric
01-01-2012, 11:56 AM
What man wants to have 3 little girls under foot day and night under the age of 9???

Yep. Someone who has ulterior motives.

katydid23
01-01-2012, 11:57 AM
Personally I get suspicious whenever a man offers to care for children. Esp. when a single never married man or a male teen offers to care for children. But I know that much of that is because of the time I spend here. I know that make me more suspicious.

But I also know that other people don't always see it that way. They see a nice guy who is offering to help them out. Or a guy who likes kids, it is too bad he never found someone to marry and have his own. Or a guy who treats their kids like his nieces and nephews. Or a teen who is a responsible caring person who likes their kids. And to be honest, I think (maybe) there may be some of those out there. Somewhere. But because of my time here I can't get past the ones who are looking for a way to get to kids.

And I think in this case both mom and grandma saw a 'caretaker.' They saw this guy as the one who took care of their dying father/ex-husband. And apparently the girls spent a lot of time in that trailer during that time. So maybe in their minds this was a safe place for them to be. imoo

FrayedKnot
01-01-2012, 11:59 AM
My son is turning 6 and he gets pretty mixed up too. Very possible IMO to get days confused.

I was thinking that, too. Two other things occurred to me, too;

Do we know for certain that the girls actually said they saw Ailie leave, or do we only have MP's statement to that "fact"?

Perhaps, as someone suggested a while back, they were given Benadryl or something even stronger to keep them sleeping or out of it while MP did his evil work and clean up. :(

sherryk
01-01-2012, 12:01 PM
Ok so Mom possibly asked the father "if there were RSO in the trailor park" lets just say he did say no no no everyone here is safe and wouldnt touch a child...

OK with that being said.. hmmmm was the 19 year old who molested AL previous was not a RSO BEFORE he molested her... meaning that they are only RSO AFTER they are caught/prosecuted... therefore Mom should of had one ounce of common sence.. and thought.. hey this has happened before.. but no she practically served her little one on a plate to this guy.

Why did it matter if RSO in area..She allready had this happen to her with the 19 year old.. he wasnt a RSO UNTIL AL.. not before.

This woman due to the circumstances previous with her daughter, the father being a RSO, and letting her little ones stay with a man for a week IMO is no way to be forgiven.. this is beyond bad parenting.

FrayedKnot
01-01-2012, 12:06 PM
This post speaks volumes and I wanted to thank you for it, Myte.

Your "magic wand" about smacked me in the head. I know someone exactly that would fit this profile. Abandoned by mom at age 3 and left in a house alone with almost as young brothers and as far as she can recall without turning into a basket case a dead infant. Sexual abuse by biological dad and yeah even that young she remembers. It comes in sort of streams.

Sent to an orphanage. Seperated from her brothers. Never got adopted, but sure enoug spend time enough foster homes. One being where she was sexually abused daily.

When I look at her I see a 3 year old sometimes. Certainly she had a wand waved over her as she trusted not a soul with her girls. She's an all around mom's mom. A phenomenal mother and more given the fact the only one she knew abandoned her. Her girls are her life, and people know this.

Hmmmmm what people don't know is she has a son. A son who was sexually abused by her current husband as a kid. To her he's a liar. Never happened. She knows my journey so she knows how I feel about this, but sticks to her guns. It saddens me, but this is when I see that strong, nobody will ever hurt my girls or grandgirls, I'm nurturer personified turn into the 3 year old. If that makes sense?

Do I believe her son? 100%. Does she? I think she does. He never touched her girls. If she were to say she did believe him I somehow think she'll finally do herself in.

Again thank you for that reality.

Please please please call the police of CPS today! I am sorry for your friend, but if she still has children in that home and she refuses to help her son then you HAVE to.

Please call ASAP. This man belongs in prison.

Sparklin
01-01-2012, 12:07 PM
To a great extent I will agree with you. But in this case somehow the previous molester got prosecuted. I don't know how it came to the attention of authorities, but it did. And if Mom didn't cooperate in that prosecution then likely she wouldn't have kepr custody of the kids. And she did keep them.
So at least one point she did stand up for her child.

So at this point I think it is a little early to assume that Mom was involved or was ignoring a bad situation. The father said he knew the guy and he thought the guy was ok. So maybe neither of the parents knew about the 13 year old or maybe they were told some story about a vindictive ex wife or something. None of the family seems to have believed this guy would have harmed any of the kids. Somehow I believe that.

bbm - That was my initial thought too. However, when 'investigating' further, and discovering the friendships, interaction, relationships and interchange (for lack of a better word) of 'partners'...it seems highly unlikely that they weren't aware of it. This 13 year old was the niece of Ali's godmother...who still has/had a pic of 'good friend Mike' on her fb. Even ONE of he previous abusers of Ali was still on friends list of bio dad!! Granted, his MS did not seem to have been accessed since 2009 but his facebook has KK as 'friend'...

The number of children that were exposed to MP and KK is heart stopping. 'Good friend' 'Step dad' 'Trusted Uncle'...ugh! I hope all those mommys are having discussions with their little ones!

Dr.Fessel
01-01-2012, 12:09 PM
From what I understand, the mother of the 13 year old didn't file a criminal complaint against MP - only a civil request for a protection order. I haven't seen any evidence that the mother followed up with the police/or made a report.

MOO

Mel

Plumadore was accused of sexually harassing Iowa girl
13-year-old's mom asked for protective order; request was dismissed

In Appanoose County, Plumadore didn't face criminal charges, and the woman's petition on behalf of her daughter was the only complaint on record, according to the clerk's office. A judge told the woman she should take her complaints to police or an attorney, according to court documents.

Source: http://www.news-sentinel.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20111231/NEWS/111239935

You know you would think a judge would be a mandatory reporter.

passionflower
01-01-2012, 12:11 PM
Have we heard any thing FROM Al's stepdad that she lived with?
Has he said anything about this murder at all?
Was he at the vigil?
Did he pack up her belongings?
What was the marriage like?
Was it hm that convinced mom to get the kids ot of
the house so he could sleep?

concentric
01-01-2012, 12:15 PM
And I think in this case both mom and grandma saw a 'caretaker.' They saw this guy as the one who took care of their dying father/ex-husband. And apparently the girls spent a lot of time in that trailer during that time. So maybe in their minds this was a safe place for them to be. imoo
-----------

JMO: I think the perp. thought the mother and grandma were stupid and easily manipulated, so he could get to the child.

And, I hate to say this, and it makes his depravity even more so, I think he targeted this child because of what he learned:

He thought she would be weak-willed, in other words, because she had PTSD from being previously sexually abused, because she had some visual, hearing impairments, because there was poverty and lax parental supervision, etc.

tlcya
01-01-2012, 12:15 PM
I was thinking that, too. Two other things occurred to me, too;

Do we know for certain that the girls actually said they saw Ailie leave, or do we only have MP's statement to that "fact"?

Perhaps, as someone suggested a while back, they were given Benadryl or something even stronger to keep them sleeping or out of it while MP did his evil work and clean up. :(

My question is how did this dismemberment happen without being witnesses by sisters. Your post supplies a possible answer. I wonder where exactly the deed was done. I assume somewhere in that trailer, hence its removal in entirety.

I can't get past the image of Ali' sisters in the living room watching cartoons having been told by uncle Mike not to disturb him in the back bedroom. Shudder. Sheer imagination on my part but I can't shake it. :sick:

concentric
01-01-2012, 12:24 PM
My question is how did this dismemberment happen without being witnesses by sisters. Your post supplies a possible answer. I wonder where exactly the deed was done. I assume somewhere in that trailer, hence its removal in entirety.

I can't get past the image of Ali' sisters in the living room watching cartoons having been told by uncle Mike not to disturb him in the back bedroom. Shudder. Sheer imagination on my part but I can't shake it. :sick:
---------

When, in the timeline, did he go to the convenience store? I thought eariler, before, we knew of the body parts in the freezer, that perhaps he lured her into his vehicle to go to the convenience store, and strangled her in the vehicle?

passionflower
01-01-2012, 12:25 PM
My question is how did this dismemberment happen without being witnesses by sisters. Your post supplies a possible answer. I wonder where exactly the deed was done. I assume somewhere in that trailer, hence its removal in entirety.

I can't get past the image of Ali' sisters in the living room watching cartoons having been told by uncle Mike not to disturb him in the back bedroom. Shudder. Sheer imagination on my part but I can't shake it. :sick:

Yes, those 2 little darlings, what happened to them? What did they endure?
What did they see, hear or were bullied?
This creep MP has a temper, what kind of abuse (even verbal) did they take?
Of course the family 'idolized MP' so the children could say nothing and had no support from so called family.
These 2 little gils are all alone, look at the family enviroment.

also, poor? Well step dad works.......mom quit a good job in PA to move.
Look at the tats in pix..........money in them.
They chose to live in a poor trailer park, but are they poor?
Mom has internet etc.
When I was single, and poor. I did without 'luxuries' in order to provide my children with a decent clean place to live. JMOO

Donjeta
01-01-2012, 12:26 PM
http://www.dhs.state.ia.us/policyanalysis/PolicyManualPages/Manual_Documents/Master/comm164.pdf

The link contains the list of people who are mandatory reporters of child abuse in Iowa.

katydid23
01-01-2012, 12:27 PM
---------

When, in the timeline, did he go to the convenience store? I thought eariler, before, we knew of the body parts in the freezer, that perhaps he lured her into his vehicle to go to the convenience store, and strangled her in the vehicle?

From what I understand, there were body parts found in the dumpster at the mini-mart. At least I think that is what they found. Is that right?

If so, she was long gone when he went to buy his celebratory cigar.

hoppy
01-01-2012, 12:28 PM
I don't see how he was able to do all of this in the trailer and clean up so meticulously that LE wasn't able to notice ANYTHING when they were in that trailer?

>>warning - graphic stuff written below<<

Cringing as I write this but:

Even if he froze her for 24 hours - as she was out in the temperature of the house she would have begun to thaw. It's not easy cutting up the bones of a frozen chicken - it takes TIME and will begin to thaw - so by the time you're nearing the end you are getting fluids ---it's a bit messy. I can't imagine the mess from this. Hacksaw?

I just can't imagine there not being signs of what he did????????

>>my stomach is totally turned from just typing this<<

:insert crying icon here:

FrayedKnot
01-01-2012, 12:30 PM
BBM

Devil's advocate here

Ahhh but did he really sexually harass the 13 year old? If the judge really thought that he had harassed the child wouldn't you think the judge would have taken some action? But the judge didn't so that puts it in the realm of he said/she said. I believe he harassed the child. But when the judge fails to take action on it, it decreases the believability of the accusation.

Also the girl was 13. There are various types of 13 year olds, but sometimes they are a mixture of acting like a naive 5 year old and a mature 19 year old. If she saw the 13 year old as being more like the 19 yo acting child, she may not have associated that child with her 9 year old or the 6 year olds. In many cases she may have "blamed the victim" and felt that the child egged him on. Legally it didn't matter what the kid did or if she "egged him on" and for many of us there is the belief that he shouldn't have taken advantage of the child no matter what. But in the outside word, many times that will be included in the judgement.

I don't agree with her decisions and choices in regards to her kids, and some maybe I don't think were very bright. But I know I am more leary of trusting strangers or even friends because of my association here and the things I have seen. But I am also aware that outside of this board, I see these same type of thought processes by otherwise good parents. Because they don't see so much bad stuff happening over and over in other cases they find it hard to believe that a trusted friend could harm one of their own.

I'm sorry, but the idea that this 13 year old CHILD may have egged MP on by being sexually provocative and perhaps had it coming is absolute rubbish.

I don't care how mature she appeared, she was effin 13!!!!!

That's taking "blaming the victim" to a whole new level.

ETA: I meant this in terms of what you hypothesized about TS's possible mindset. I know YOU weren't blaming the child!

passionflower
01-01-2012, 12:30 PM
My question is how did this dismemberment happen without being witnesses by sisters. Your post supplies a possible answer. I wonder where exactly the deed was done. I assume somewhere in that trailer, hence its removal in entirety.

I can't get past the image of Ali' sisters in the living room watching cartoons having been told by uncle Mike not to disturb him in the back bedroom. Shudder. Sheer imagination on my part but I can't shake it. :sick:

yes and I think I and that he first froze Ali before dismemberment.
How long was she in the freezer? A refridg freezer or another freezer?
Then took her out. I am thinking of time frame.
I also wonder if the cigar run is when he took her to the dumpster???
He left those 2 little ones alone more than is being said.
IMO, he doped them up or they were scard to death of him.
After cigar, he went to bed??? (sofa??)
How long did sisters sleep in?

mysteriew
01-01-2012, 12:30 PM
bbm - That was my initial thought too. However, when 'investigating' further, and discovering the friendships, interaction, relationships and interchange (for lack of a better word) of 'partners'...it seems highly unlikely that they weren't aware of it. This 13 year old was the niece of Ali's godmother...who still has/had a pic of 'good friend Mike' on her fb. Even ONE of he previous abusers of Ali was still on friends list of bio dad!! Granted, his MS did not seem to have been accessed since 2009 but his facebook has KK as 'friend'...

The number of children that were exposed to MP and KK is heart stopping. 'Good friend' 'Step dad' 'Trusted Uncle'...ugh! I hope all those mommys are having discussions with their little ones!

I don't have a facebook but was just wondering. Does everyone on FB have regular heart to heart talks with everyone else about what is going on in their lives? The impression I get is that FB is somewhat like life. Where some 'friends' are close with regular contact, with behind the scenes talks. And some 'friends' are more like aquaintances, where you approve their friend requests and maybe you email them or comment on them a little, or maybe you don't.

By which I mean just because they are friends on FB doesn't mean they actually know what is going on in each other's daily lives. Or that they discuss sensitive issues like a predator turning his attention to their child. Or even if they do discuss it, that they might not have alternate opinions on the fact. This is going to PO people, but some people do still blame the victims because of the way the kid dresses or acts, trying to be older. And if they knew that the mother took it to court, with the judge dismissing it with no action, that kinda takes away from theappearance of the legitimacy of the mother's claim too.

So at this point I don't see enough proof of what was in Aliahna's mother's mind. If she knew, if she knew and didn't believe or if she actually didn't know. The info just isn't there.

mysteriew
01-01-2012, 12:33 PM
I'm sorry, but the idea that this 13 year old CHILD may have egged MP on by being sexually provocative and perhaps had it coming is absolute rubbish.

I don't care how mature she appeared, she was effin 13!!!!!

That's taking "blaming the victim" to a whole new level.

I'm not saying I believe it. But I am saying that a lot of people do believe it. A lot. Sometimes the parents will be blamed when teens are like that. But sometimes the kids will be.

hoppy
01-01-2012, 12:35 PM
Yes, those 2 little darlings, what happened to them? What did they endure?
What did they see, hear or were bullied?
This creep MP has a temper, what kind of abuse (even verbal) did they take?
Of course the family 'idolized MP' so the children could say nothing and had no support from so called family.
These 2 little gils are all alone, look at the family enviroment.

also, poor? Well step dad works.......mom quit a good job in PA to move.
Look at the tats in pix..........money in them.
They chose to live in a poor trailer park, but are they poor?
Mom has internet etc.
When I was single, and poor. I did without 'luxuries' in order to provide my children with a decent clean place to live. JMOO

You can look up military retirement calculators online and read more here (http://www.military.com/benefits/content/military-pay/military-retired-pay-overview.html):

I did a quick 'guessing' with the calculator (based on the info dh and I were able to get from the pics on MS) - and he was probably receiving at least $1500 a month in AF retirement pay.

mysteriew
01-01-2012, 12:36 PM
I don't see how he was able to do all of this in the trailer and clean up so meticulously that LE wasn't able to notice ANYTHING when they were in that trailer?

>>warning - graphic stuff written below<<

Cringing as I write this but:

Even if he froze her for 24 hours - as she was out in the temperature of the house she would have begun to thaw. It's not easy cutting up the bones of a frozen chicken - it takes TIME and will begin to thaw - so by the time you're nearing the end you are getting fluids ---it's a bit messy. I can't imagine the mess from this. Hacksaw?

I just can't imagine there not being signs of what he did????????

>>my stomach is totally turned from just typing this<<

:insert crying icon here:

Judging from other cases, dismemberment is usually done in the bathtub. And the bathroom usually has solid surfaces which are easier to clean.

MBK
01-01-2012, 12:38 PM
Has anyone read that Aliahna was on any medications, such as an anti-depressant, for her PTSD? In connection with that, have you read anything about her seeing a therapist or doctor for this or her other conditions?

Do I remember reading that she had ADHD, or am I imagining things?

Ladylub
01-01-2012, 12:38 PM
---------

When, in the timeline, did he go to the convenience store? I thought eariler, before, we knew of the body parts in the freezer, that perhaps he lured her into his vehicle to go to the convenience store, and strangled her in the vehicle?

She was killed early Thursday morning. He then placed her in his freezer. Late night Thursday early Friday morning he dismembered her body. Then Friday morning he went to the convenience store for his cigar ( Im guessing that is when he placed part of her body in the dumpster.) It has not been confirmed though and if the convenience store cameras picked up the police removing the dumpster on Monday then I sure they had proof of him throwing something in the dumpster.

Though my question is if they suspected him from the moment he told them about the early morning cigar run and they checked out the stores camera did they see him place something in the dumpster? And if they did why did they not look in the dumpster then? Or did they think nothing of him throwing something away b/c the bag/s were not large enough to have concerned them at that time.

Sparklin
01-01-2012, 12:39 PM
One thing that points me away from the mother setting up her child is that all three of the kids were with him. Usually if a mother is pimping a kid, she will only send that kid.

But keeping the kids together, that is usually a protective measure. I know for myself I tended to be more leinent with what my kids were allowed to do, if there was more than one of them.

Somehow I can see how this was arranged. Mom having the flu, being ill. MP being 'nice' offering assistance. Maybe the kids even sensed that it would be 'party time' with staying up late and watching TV at his house, they may have wanted to go with him for all I know. Kids are like that sometimes.

Yes he had a criminal record. But his criminal record wasn't against kids. And believe me, in some areas a criminal record isn't all that uncommon. So since they felt they knew him well, probably felt he wouldn't hurt the kids or disrespect her she let them go.

I have noticed several people have commented on her appearance changing and theorizing that she was on drugs, probably meth. But I haven't seen where she has ever been charged with any drug offenses. Am I wrong about that? What I haven't seen is anyone theorizing that Mom could have some chronic or debilitating illness. She could even be in the early stages of that. I did notice that some media mentioned Mom going to court in a wheelchair?

Oh another thing I noted. There were some comments about the fact that Mom went to authorities to get permission to bring a dog (possibly dangerous) into the city limits for her daughter. Many times in mental health situations, and even in sex abuse situations esp if the child is fearful, a therapy dog will be recommended. Now most cities have certain breeds that have been classified as possibly dangerous, whether the dog itself is known to be dangerous or not. I'm kinda thinking that is what was happening there. Again, not the actions of an uncaring parent since she did go to some trouble to try to get the permissions that were needed.

bbm = She made the request and was on the agenda...but failed to show up!

mysteriew
01-01-2012, 12:43 PM
bbm = She made the request and was on the agenda...but failed to show up!

Thanks Sparklin I hadn't seen that she didn't show up.

Sparklin
01-01-2012, 12:43 PM
Hold on, now. Did she know he was an RSO? Through all the "this person knew this person knew this person" stuff we've seen...did this mother actually know he was an RSO?

It was Ali's godmothers niece that this happened to. Now it's all very confusing since we don't know for sure when MP was introduced to TS for absolute, but you would think that the Godmother would have mentioned it to her! The problem I have is that these people were all intermingled and although it is coming across as TS had just recently met MP -- there seems to be a whole lot more history with, at least her friends/family.

passionflower
01-01-2012, 12:51 PM
Are therapy dogs dangerous? NOT.......
and why would you want a dangerous dog around children?
I don't get that part of ringing a dangerous dog into the city thing.............

concentric
01-01-2012, 12:53 PM
I don't see how he was able to do all of this in the trailer and clean up so meticulously that LE wasn't able to notice ANYTHING when they were in that trailer?

>>warning - graphic stuff written below<<

Cringing as I write this but:

Even if he froze her for 24 hours - as she was out in the temperature of the house she would have begun to thaw. It's not easy cutting up the bones of a frozen chicken - it takes TIME and will begin to thaw - so by the time you're nearing the end you are getting fluids ---it's a bit messy. I can't imagine the mess from this. Hacksaw?

I just can't imagine there not being signs of what he did????????

>>my stomach is totally turned from just typing this<<

:insert crying icon here:
----------------

Well, first I have to commend you (everyone who does) for having the courage to confront what happened to this child, all children who are brutalized like this. There are so many people out there who never even listen to the news, because they don't want to believe it. IMO, It is those types of people that perps. rely on to allow all of this to go on unimpeded.

Yes, exactly where did he do the dissecting and bagging?

katydid23
01-01-2012, 12:53 PM
Are therapy dogs dangerous? NOT.......
and why would you want a dangerous dog around children?
I don't get that part of ringing a dangerous dog into the city thing.............

There is a picture of Ali holding a german Shepherd puppy. Maybe they needed a special permit for her 'dangerous' dog to attend school with her or something like that.

passionflower
01-01-2012, 12:53 PM
Was the theray dog just a story for wanting a dangerous dog to
ALERT family and scare others away? Like if you are into something bad?

Montana
01-01-2012, 12:56 PM
Last night while reading articles in paper it said 2 girls slept on floor, Ali in recliner (yuck)
and MP on sofa, they watched TV together...........what channels?
Disney or porn?
Also what did these dear children do all day?
Did they go out and play?
Visit friends or were they all captive to that livingroom in front of a TV?
Did he take them any where?
Did they have toys, play dolls..........
that is no life for them while mom is almost next door.
What man wants to have 3 little girls under foot day and night under the age of 9???

Why was he really sleeping on the sofa? Was he guarding them so that they could not leave?

passionflower
01-01-2012, 12:57 PM
so a german shepherd puppy is a dangerous dog.........

I had one then for 16 years and my children adored her.
named ANGEL.

FrayedKnot
01-01-2012, 12:59 PM
You know, this is driving me batty:

I have read that possibly police didn't discover Ailie's remains in the dumpster because they weren't looking for a dead child but an alive child.

If this really is true then protocol for missing children's cases needs to be changed. It should automatically be considered a possibility that missing child has met with foul play.

In the Jorelys Rivera case, blood stains were overlooked in an abandoned apartment because they were only looking for a missing girl.

Sadly, it would seem that nowadays a dumpster is a very logical place to look for a missing child. I cannot believe that if they had MP under suspicion almost immediately, that they only gave that dumpster a cursory glance until MP confessed.

Makes no sense.