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View Full Version : 20/20 - Josh Powell Told Sons He Had 'Surprise' For Them, Social Worker



annalia
02-09-2012, 06:44 PM
I hope it's ok to start a new thread, I didn't know where this should go.


http://abcnews.go.com/US/josh-powell-told-sons-surprise/story?id=15549745

20/20 interview with the SW. Video from part of the interview also at the link.


Watch "Sins of the Father" on "20/20" Friday at 9 p.m. ET for more on the Powell story. A preview of the report, including more with social worker Elizabeth Griffin Hall, will air on tonight's "World News with Diane Sawyer" and Friday's "Good Morning America" at 7 a.m. ET.

21merc7
02-09-2012, 06:55 PM
"As Hall banged on the door, "I heard him say, 'Charlie, I've got a big surprise for you'... And then I heard Braden cry out."

Oh geesh. And he had a sheepish look and a shrug as he closed the door. It just keeps getting worse!

It sounds like the lady is trying hard to maintain. That is a positive sign for her, but for most of the article you can tell she is struggling with that. I wish her well, once the shock wears off it may get even harder. She said he did not look like a monster, poor thing. No one ever does.

concentric
02-09-2012, 06:56 PM
This is what I said earlier in another thread. I think that if there were 2 social workers, they might have tried to break down the door. Would have, should have, could have, I guess. From the article above:


"I wanted to get to the kids," she said. "I wanted to get to the kids. I would have broken in if I could."

Spice
02-09-2012, 07:10 PM
This just keeps getting worse and I am nauseated at the thought of those boys excited to see their father and running toward him with love in their hearts only to be lured to their deaths. Josh Powell was extremely sadistic. I cannot even get my head around it.

theBritster
02-09-2012, 07:10 PM
Why do I even keep reading the articles? I just keep getting more and more horrified. Those poor boys. I can't imagine how scared they must have been.

JDB
02-09-2012, 07:19 PM
I love the part where she says "I will not be a victim. I will keep working with children" She also said she will never forget the kids.

DLT88
02-09-2012, 07:24 PM
Why do I even keep reading the articles? I just keep getting more and more horrified. Those poor boys. I can't imagine how scared they must have been.

Yes, and the sw hearing Braden crying out thinking he had stubbed his foot again because it was the same sound he made 'last time' or before that when he hurt his foot. The police believe that to be the time Braden was first hit with the axe. The poor little child. Yes, the poor little things so manipulated and fooled by their father (who acted more like a brother if you ask me).

This is the part I don't get. Chuck and Judy said the boys did not want to visit their father that day and, actually, the last couple times they were showing less and less interest in seeing him. So WHEN did Steven make the comment to the SW that he wanted to go live with his daddy and have his own frog pond. Was that lately --- or how long ago was that?

DLT88
02-09-2012, 07:26 PM
I love the part where she says "I will not be a victim. I will keep working with children" She also said she will never forget the kids.

She has such a kind face and heart, doesn't she? And the boys loved her so much! Everyone loved those boys except JP and his family (except sister Jennifer).

Paige SC
02-09-2012, 07:33 PM
I wonder why she thought it was an accident when he slammed the door in her face and locked her out?

"Hall said the children loved being with their father. "One of them said what he wanted to do was go home and live with his daddy," she said.
And during visits with Powell, "I would see them light up."

http://abcnews.go.com/US/josh-powell-told-sons-surprise/story?id=15549745#.TzRWkvk3Esw


It's just so pathetic and sad I don't know what to say..

Etilema
02-09-2012, 07:48 PM
I wonder why she thought it was an accident when he slammed the door in her face and locked her out?

"Hall said the children loved being with their father. "One of them said what he wanted to do was go home and live with his daddy," she said.
And during visits with Powell, "I would see them light up."

http://abcnews.go.com/US/josh-powell-told-sons-surprise/story?id=15549745#.TzRWkvk3Esw


It's just so pathetic and sad I don't know what to say..

BBM
I think it was cognitive dissonance. She saw him with what seemed to be a friendly face, and he looked her right in the eye, and she didn't expect there would be any reason for him to *deliberately* lock her out. So her mind couldn't immediately jump to the idea that there was something sinister going on. Then, when he ignored her knocking and calls to be let in, the reality that something was very wrong must have sunk in.

When she said that she had the idea of taking the boys back to the Coxes if Braden had hurt his foot, I think that was her panicking, realizing she had to do something, and thinking that that would be a good pretext for getting the boys out of there.

ThoughtFox
02-09-2012, 08:00 PM
I wonder why she thought it was an accident when he slammed the door in her face and locked her out?

"Hall said the children loved being with their father. "One of them said what he wanted to do was go home and live with his daddy," she said.
And during visits with Powell, "I would see them light up."

http://abcnews.go.com/US/josh-powell-told-sons-surprise/story?id=15549745#.TzRWkvk3Esw


It's just so pathetic and sad I don't know what to say..

To me, it sounds as if this poor woman wasn't very well-informed about JP. Sure the kids wanted to live with Daddy. They probably had wishes about living with Mommy too, but that wasn't going to happen either.

I understand a social worker wanting to help these kids, but projecting their innocent wish for a family onto JP and trusting him obviously didn't work.

The fact he promised them a "surprise" is just evil, and no amount of wishful thinking can change that. Hello, reality!

SilkySifaka
02-09-2012, 08:00 PM
This man was a monster. The closest who competes is John Couey or Joseph Duncan (Lunsford and Groene murders). Most who kill loved ones especially children at least regret it in a way and they don't seem to take sadistic pleasure in it "I have a surprise for you" ..my lord.

SmoothOperator
02-09-2012, 08:06 PM
This just cannot be real.. Can it?? I mean we are talking Hollywood movies now.. Literally!!!! The words are the words of Hollywood actors in the horror genre industry but they really are coming from this *fathers* mouth as he is speaking to his precious little boys!!! How can this be??. How can this man have done it *this way*???. It's one thing to be able to attempt to wrap your mind around the fact that a father chose to take his young sons in death with him.. That is way hard enough to process in my mind where that alone is truly UNcomprehendable... But this... This is more than I can even grasp in my wildest of imaginations... It's tough to watch these type "scripted scenarios" playout on the screen of a Hollywood horror movie and makes one's heart race with anxiety as you turn your head away from watching it... and that's full well knowing that it's a MOVIE... These are actors who are laughing and playing after the "scene" is over... It's not real and the words are nothing more than an over imaginative horror script writers make believe...

So.. How on earth can I even begin to grasp the fact that these precious boys last moments here on this earth were the horrors of EVERY human beings worst nightmares... How to cope with the fact that these little boys ran anxiously, excidedly, and full of love to their daddy.. Their father.. Their greatest protector on earth.. And hear their daddy say "Charlie, I've got a big surprise for you! " as he wields an ax straight at Charlies neck????.. And precious Braden.. God that precious, poor baby and what he was witnessing as he cried out with the social worker hearing him and helpless to do anything to save him...

It now makes sense why Charlie only had the one wound to the neck and Braden had suffered more... It's due to the fact that precious Charlie was caught totally off guard with his father striking him first as Braden's little eyes saw the gruesome, terrifying horror that was inflicted on his big brother by their very own *daddy*... God bless him those next moments are more than I can bear and now it's clear why he was struck more than once.. He struggled!! He fought his *daddy* for his life after witnessing the horror done to Charlie!!

God**** this monster!! Damn him to the hottest pits of hell!! How... How.. How.. Could any member of his family even have the gall to defend this monster or attempt to portray him as a victim!!!! What he has done is THE ABSOLUTE UNIMAGINABLE!

I must seek solace and peace in knowing that these boys are with their momma and are whole.. Full of nothing but joy, happiness, and contentment beyond what our minds can even think of... I must take solace in that and I must keep that forefront in my mind for without my knowing this I certainly would not be able to cope with what is the truth of what happened in that house in those minutes of sheer and utter hell on earth brought down upon these precious boys by the evil who was Josh Powell.. WHO was their *daddy*!

My prayers continue for the Cox family and all of those that knew and loved Susan and her precious sons, Charlie and Braden..

Adrienne37
02-09-2012, 08:08 PM
I think I have to quit reading and watching things about this case now. Each time I click a link, it gets worse and worse. I just can't imagine.

Mosby
02-09-2012, 08:09 PM
I really thought we had heard all of the horror there was to hear. Have read the posts here but can't bring myself to read the entire article yet. Maybe tomorrow. I'm just still so sad and so angry.

I will never be able to come to grips with how this monster could do this.

My thoughts and prayers are with this woman and hope that she will be able to find a way to heal, although I really don't know how I would. There is nothing more she could have done to save Charlie and Braden from this monster.

indicat
02-09-2012, 08:09 PM
Yes, and the sw hearing Braden crying out thinking he had stubbed his foot again because it was the same sound he made 'last time' or before that when he hurt his foot. The police believe that to be the time Braden was first hit with the axe. The poor little child. Yes, the poor little things so manipulated and fooled by their father (who acted more like a brother if you ask me).

This is the part I don't get. Chuck and Judy said the boys did not want to visit their father that day and, actually, the last couple times they were showing less and less interest in seeing him. So WHEN did Steven make the comment to the SW that he wanted to go live with his daddy and have his own frog pond. Was that lately --- or how long ago was that?

I know its hard to put together their not wanting to go with what she is saying but I see this with my own grandson who lives with us. He is 2 and when its time to go spend time with his mom he cries, but after he has been with her a few days his dad says he cries when its time to come back. I think its the disruption of their surroundings, they want to stay where they are at and are enjoying what they are doing at the time and dont want the disruption, does that make sence?

Ninja Bunny
02-09-2012, 08:19 PM
I think it was cognitive dissonance. She saw him with what seemed to be a friendly face, and he looked her right in the eye, and she didn't expect there would be any reason for him to *deliberately* lock her out.

I don't know how long she's worked with Josh and the kids* but she observed previous interactions that seemed to go well, she probably thought this wouldn't be any different and being locked out didn't register as being deliberate at first. I don't know what her instructions were regarding situations like this in general (how to deal with strange parental behavior) or how much she knew about the upcoming psychosexual/lie detector tests or other things that could further "stress" Josh.

* Just read in another thread that she had worked with them for a considerable amount of time and she had no fear of Josh.

gitana1
02-09-2012, 08:20 PM
Yes, and the sw hearing Braden crying out thinking he had stubbed his foot again because it was the same sound he made 'last time' or before that when he hurt his foot. The police believe that to be the time Braden was first hit with the axe. The poor little child. Yes, the poor little things so manipulated and fooled by their father (who acted more like a brother if you ask me).

This is the part I don't get. Chuck and Judy said the boys did not want to visit their father that day and, actually, the last couple times they were showing less and less interest in seeing him. So WHEN did Steven make the comment to the SW that he wanted to go live with his daddy and have his own frog pond. Was that lately --- or how long ago was that?

Kids can be conflicted. And they may have not wanted to interrupt play for a visit at that moment. They also may have felt torn between the dad they loved and the new peace they felt at their grandparents, where they were able to speak and think about mommy.


To me, it sounds as if this poor woman wasn't very well-informed about JP. Sure the kids wanted to live with Daddy. They probably had wishes about living with Mommy too, but that wasn't going to happen either.

I understand a social worker wanting to help these kids, but projecting their innocent wish for a family onto JP and trusting him obviously didn't work.

The fact he promised them a "surprise" is just evil, and no amount of wishful thinking can change that. Hello, reality!

Yeah, well DSHS and the psychologist who worked this case weren't well informed either. I heard this lady say that she never thought he would hurt the kids. Psych said he was odd but not a risk to the children. DSHS echoed that.

People involved in the welfare of children need to be better educated and the system needs to pull its head out of you know where. People who commit domestic violence against a spouse are a danger of abusing their kids, even killing them, no matter how sweet they seem to be with those kids. People who MURDER their spouses are at high risk of murdering their kids, too. That's a fact. LE knows it, the family courts in my state seem to know it, now everyone should know it.

Oh, but the coward hadn't been arrested. He hadn't been publicly named a suspect. So, how could safety protocols, custody and visitation decisions be based on violence on his part towards his wife? Give me a break. Family courts and juvenile dependency courts make court orders every day, based on a finding that abuse or some sort of act occurred, in the absence of an arrest.

It was clear that this man murdered his wife two years ago. She disappeared in the middle of the night after he cooked her food and she fell ill and went to bed at 5:30 p.m.. Later that night, a Sunday, he took two toddlers into freezing weather at midnight, to go camping, even though he had work and they had school the next day. He refused to cooperate with his wife's investigation. A giant wet spot was found on the rug with fans drying it when the empty house was broken into after LE could not get a hold of the family and did a welfare check. The coward failed to answer his phone for hours. Before she went missing, Susan had indicated he was controlling and she feared him.

Yeah, it may not be enough for a conviction or even maybe an arrest. But it certainly was enough to indicate he killed his wife or was involved in her death which means he was an extreme danger to the lives of his kids from the get go. CPS and the court could have acted accordingly on those facts alone, no arrest necessary, as they do every day.

Until everyone in our nation who is involved in child welfare understand that people who hurt their intimate partners are just a hop and a skip away from hurting their kids, we will have more such cases. I hope the judge in Michelle Parker's case is taking note.

Paige SC
02-09-2012, 08:22 PM
I know its hard to put together their not wanting to go with what she is saying but I see this with my own grandson who lives with us. He is 2 and when its time to go spend time with his mom he cries, but after he has been with her a few days his dad says he cries when its time to come back. I think its the disruption of their surroundings, they want to stay where they are at and are enjoying what they are doing at the time and dont want the disruption, does that make sence?

I do hope she was able to communicate the details to Chuck and Judy before going public with the exclusive interview, just so they could be a little prepared for it. Those details have to be beyond devastating for them.

ThoughtFox
02-09-2012, 08:25 PM
I know its hard to put together their not wanting to go with what she is saying but I see this with my own grandson who lives with us. He is 2 and when its time to go spend time with his mom he cries, but after he has been with her a few days his dad says he cries when its time to come back. I think its the disruption of their surroundings, they want to stay where they are at and are enjoying what they are doing at the time and dont want the disruption, does that make sence?

Yes, because little children just want everyone to be nice and happy and together all the time. Children want things to be boringly normal and stable. But they also have magical thinking and believe all kinds of things that have nothing to do with reality.

I think this social worker was kind and sweet to the kids, and that's awesome. But she was out of her depth with JP because he somehow has the ability to fool people into thinking he is Mr. Nice Guy. Appearances are deceiving.

"When I close my eyes I see him and he was so normal. He did not look like a monster."
http://abcnews.go.com/US/josh-powell-told-sons-surprise/story?id=15549745

~n/t~
02-09-2012, 08:31 PM
I'm speechless.

karen7868
02-09-2012, 08:33 PM
I know its hard to put together their not wanting to go with what she is saying but I see this with my own grandson who lives with us. He is 2 and when its time to go spend time with his mom he cries, but after he has been with her a few days his dad says he cries when its time to come back. I think its the disruption of their surroundings, they want to stay where they are at and are enjoying what they are doing at the time and dont want the disruption, does that make sence?


Yeah, the Coxes said they had a 2 yr. old cousin they were playing with that had been visiting and was set to leave the next day. So I think they were having too much fun and didn't want to be interrupted.

God, this breaks my heart.

This was his own flesh and blood. I was hoping and praying they had died quickly (possibly gun shot as bad as it sounds), but to actually have to witness your own brother being hit with an axe by your own father is just too much to bare.

The details just keep getting worse just when you think it's not possible.

RIP Susan, Charlie and Braden

Mgorules
02-09-2012, 08:39 PM
Kids can be conflicted. And they may have not wanted to interrupt play for a visit at that moment. They also may have felt torn between the dad they loved and the new peace they felt at their grandparents, where they were able to speak and think about mommy.



Yeah, well DSHS and the psychologist who worked this case weren't well informed either. I heard this lady say that she never thought he would hurt the kids. Psych said he was odd but not a risk to the children. DSHS echoed that.

People involved in the welfare of children need to be better educated and the system needs to pull its head out of you know where. People who commit domestic violence against a spouse are a danger of abusing their kids, even killing them, no matter how sweet they seem to be with those kids. People who MURDER their spouses are at high risk of murdering their kids, too. That's a fact. LE knows it, the family courts in my state seem to know it, now everyone should know it.

Oh, but the coward hadn't been arrested. He hadn't been publicly named a suspect. So, how could safety protocols, custody and visitation decisions be based on violence on his part towards his wife? Give me a break. Family courts and juvenile dependency courts make court orders every day, based on a finding that abuse or some sort of act occurred, in the absence of an arrest.

It was clear that this man murdered his wife two years ago. She disappeared in the middle of the night after he cooked her food and she fell ill and went to bed at 5:30 p.m.. Later that night, a Sunday, he took two toddlers into freezing weather at midnight, to go camping, even though he had work and they had school the next day. He refused to cooperate with his wife's investigation. A giant wet spot was found on the rug with fans drying it when the empty house was broken into after LE could not get a hold of the family and did a welfare check. The coward failed to answer his phone for hours. Before she went missing, Susan had indicated he was controlling and she feared him.

Yeah, it may not be enough for a conviction or even maybe an arrest. But it certainly was enough to indicate he killed his wife or was involved in her death which means he was an extreme danger to the lives of his kids from the get go. CPS and the court could have acted accordingly on those facts alone, no arrest necessary, as they do every day.

Until everyone in our nation who is involved in child welfare understand that people who hurt their intimate partners are just a hop and a skip away from hurting their kids, we will have more such cases. I hope the judge in Michelle Parker's case is taking note.

You always say it so well, gitana. Thank you. And I agree with you re: Michelle Parker's kids. I hope the people involved in her kids' welfare are on high alert and overly cautious.

FrayedKnot
02-09-2012, 08:44 PM
I am just so sick. And numb.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Nixie
02-09-2012, 08:50 PM
Just when i thought we had heard the worst every day new details that break the heart and boggle the mind. My heart breaks for these boys and their family. My heart breaks for everyone involved and their families also. It is just the saddest case I think I have ever followed and it keeps getting worse. Bless those involved and I hope somehow they find peace.

ThoughtFox
02-09-2012, 08:56 PM
Really this should become a new "textbook case" that is studied at the University Level. They should write a seminar about it for anyone in Child Protective Services.

Because obviously everything that could go wrong, went wrong.

karen7868
02-09-2012, 08:59 PM
And knowing little Braden already had a sore foot that was painful and probably couldn't run from him.

God, JP was an evil monster.

mrsu
02-09-2012, 09:05 PM
I agree that CPS failed these boys, but I think it's unfair to blame the social worker. Obviously Josh had her fooled, like he did so many, including some of his very own family members. I'm sure he acted like Dad of the Year when the social worker was present in order to get her to trust him. If he gained the trust of the social worker he probably thought she would put a good word in for him and he had a better chance to gain back custody of the boys. After the most recent court date which required the psycho sexual eval. and lie detector, I think this was his ultimate plan. Had the social worker suspected anything sooner, he wouldn't have been able to carry out his devious plan, therefore he needed to fleece the social worker. Unfortunately it worked.

DLT88
02-09-2012, 09:08 PM
I know its hard to put together their not wanting to go with what she is saying but I see this with my own grandson who lives with us. He is 2 and when its time to go spend time with his mom he cries, but after he has been with her a few days his dad says he cries when its time to come back. I think its the disruption of their surroundings, they want to stay where they are at and are enjoying what they are doing at the time and dont want the disruption, does that make sence?

It really did! Thank you for explaining that!

Cherry Baby
02-09-2012, 09:14 PM
I can't even imagine...I am without words. He was pure evil, which he obviously learned from his father. I can't say much more, it's all words that aren't allowed here that I would use to describe those two.

katydid23
02-09-2012, 09:18 PM
I am not at all surprised that the boys loved their father. He obviously 'comforted them' when they lost their mom. That was what he wanted all along, to be the only parent. So he loved and nurtured them through that painful experience. He made them dependent upon him.

Dr.Fessel
02-09-2012, 09:22 PM
OT but please take a minute. http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=162362&page=2

Peliman
02-09-2012, 09:40 PM
Josh was a lying first degree murderer who planned the murder/suicide of his two sons and himself, I also believe he murdered Susan. He more than likely knew his sons were talking some about their mom and he saw this as his only way out. That he murdered his two sons shows the kind of person Josh was. No words can describe the contempt I feel for Josh. I'm not through working through this one yet.

No way could the social worker do any more than she did.

Magdalyn
02-09-2012, 09:43 PM
This just cannot be real.. Can it?? I mean we are talking Hollywood movies now.. Literally!!!!

Respectfully snipped:

After I caught my breath from reading this new horrendous piece of information, the whole "I've got a surprise for you!" .... the first thing I thought was Jack Nicholson in The Shining.

Those poor, sweet, beautiful children were utterly terrorized in their last moments by the one person left on Earth that was supposed to love them the most.

He never loved them. They were objects, possessions to control and discard as he pleased, just like their books and toys. You can't love someone as a parent loves a child and inflict such horror, fear and pain on them.

I hope his special place in Hell includes perpetual fear, pain, victimization, and torture 10 times worse than anything he ever did to Susan and the boys.

Thinker Belle
02-09-2012, 10:00 PM
I hope Josh Powell was surprised when he arrived at the gates of Hell.

gwenabob
02-09-2012, 10:40 PM
I hope Josh Powell was surprised when he arrived at the gates of Hell.

I'm sure Satan himself was there to greet him. "Hey Josh! I've got a big surprise for you!"

gwenabob
02-09-2012, 10:41 PM
OT but please take a minute. http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=162362&page=2

I don't know if it is just me, but this link just brings me back to this page.

TallCoolOne
02-09-2012, 11:04 PM
I don't know if it is just me, but this link just brings me back to this page.Nope, it isn't just you, did the same for me. I was a tad confused!

AnonymousD
02-09-2012, 11:12 PM
Same for me as well.....

gitana1
02-10-2012, 01:13 AM
Same for me as well.....

Me too.

But on another note, I want to say how thankful I am for all of you. I really am. This place has become like a second family of friends coming together to share our outrage, despair, grief and hope.

I have never encountered a site with so many caring, wonderful individuals, all fighting hard for justice and caring, hoping, praying for the innocent. You guys rock. You keep me sane. Thank you.

indicat
02-10-2012, 01:20 AM
Me too.

But on another note, I want to say how thankful I am for all of you. I really am. This place has become like a second family of friends coming together to share our outrage, despair, grief and hope.

I have never encountered a site with so many caring, wonderful individuals, all fighting hard for justice and caring, hoping, praying for the innocent. You guys rock. You keep me sane. Thank you.

I feel the way!

Aqua
02-10-2012, 03:45 AM
No words...

CHERIE.T
02-10-2012, 04:03 AM
J told the boys he had a surprise.:banghead: I see this as he coaxed the boys to come visit............made sure the boys hung onto the word surprise. I've never heard of such an evil person.
( I think the family was sick. Personally I have no doubt that J's dad knew about Susan and what happened to her. :( )

It's Not the Nanny
02-10-2012, 09:27 AM
I'm so disturbed. Do you think he said he had a surprise for him to get him to the room/area they found the bodies in??

Poor sweet boys!

Irish_Eyes
02-10-2012, 10:03 AM
This makes me more sad for Susan too. Makes you wonder what he said to her.

Etilema
02-10-2012, 10:27 AM
I'm so disturbed. Do you think he said he had a surprise for him to get him to the room/area they found the bodies in??

Poor sweet boys!

I don't think so, because it appears he did this pretty much right inside the front door, and it sounds like he began the attack immediately after saying that (since the social worker reported hearing Braden cry out right away after that, and this all happened in a very short space of time, before she called anyone).

french75
02-10-2012, 11:19 AM
This really does get worse and worse.

I am really surprised that he spared the case worker from being a victim too. Even though there wasn't really anything anyone could have done, I'm surprised that someone who seems like as much of a control freak as JP would leave anything to chance. And if he can kill his own children and presumably his wife, why would he even care if she lived or died?

ami
02-10-2012, 11:37 AM
Omg, so sickening and terrifying. The Shining came to mind for me, too. I was terrified when I read that book, everyone was, and for just the reason this is even more horrifying than most: because "Daddy" is the person who protects you and loves you and gives you nice surprises like toys and games and books. To think they expected a surprise from Daddy and got the worst pain and fear imaginable! From the person they'd just run to in excitement. And the only other adult they knew banging frantically on the door and crying out for them. Horrifying. Horrifying. I hate that they left the Earth with such pain and fear and betrayal.

strawberry
02-10-2012, 12:43 PM
Haven't read this whole thread..came here for exactly this revelation..that he said he had a big surprise for them. That detail just sent me over the top when I thought I was already at the summit. He ranks right up there with Most Evil.

carole
02-10-2012, 12:52 PM
This really does get worse and worse.

I am really surprised that he spared the case worker from being a victim too. Even though there wasn't really anything anyone could have done, I'm surprised that someone who seems like as much of a control freak as JP would leave anything to chance. And if he can kill his own children and presumably his wife, why would he even care if she lived or died?

BBM

I don't think he spared her for any altruistic reason. He simply wanted to keep her out because she would have fought him and tried to keep the boys safe.

annalia
02-10-2012, 01:03 PM
I agree with everything being said, there are no words, and it seems to just get worse as time goes on, it's just truly, truly horrifying.

One the the things we all at least hoped for when we first heard was that it was quick and the boys didn't suffer. Now we see that wasn't the case, these two sweet innocent boys, who were too young to be able to even comprehend that their father was responsible for what happened to their mother, and who loved him unconditionally, met a painful and horrifying death at his hands.

It's too much to even bear for those of us that don't even personally know them, it must be a million times worse for the Cox and Graves families to first lose them and then to know how they suffered. We can only imagine their unbearable grief. God Bless them all.
:cry:


JMHO

passionflower
02-10-2012, 01:11 PM
WTAE.com/news
just announced on TV that jp tried to kill his children one time BEFORE this happened!
I do not know to make a new hread for this or not.........if anyone wants to.
I will add more info, waiting on news!

epiphany
02-10-2012, 01:18 PM
I heard report at this link:

http://www.wtae.com/video/19208094/detail.html

But this referred to Josh's trying to kill the boys with the ax before he set the home on fire.

Magdalyn
02-10-2012, 01:19 PM
WTAE.com/news
just announced on TV that jp tried to kill his children one time BEFORE this happened!
I do not know to make a new hread for this or not.........if anyone wants to.
I will add more info, waiting on news!

What the ffff.....heck? :eek:

passionflower
02-10-2012, 01:19 PM
okay the WTAE news was BS........they never mentioned the BEFORE........all they mentioned was the axe being used before fire....media hype once again.......sorry I thought jp
had a trial run, but does not seem so.

passionflower
02-10-2012, 01:20 PM
Heard report at this link:

http://www.wtae.com/video/19208094/detail.html

Believe this referred to Josh's trying to kill the boys with a hatchet before setting home on fire.

yes you are right, the way it was announced, I was waiting for another
crying session..............media hype!

passionflower
02-10-2012, 01:21 PM
I have a love/hate with certain media

Magdalyn
02-10-2012, 01:23 PM
Probably not the right thread but I just saw this--a released photo of JP at the bank doing his 7000 withdrawal.


http://www.ksl.com/?nid=148&sid=19183339&s_cid=article-popular-2

x_files
02-10-2012, 01:24 PM
WTAE.com/news
just announced on TV that jp tried to kill his children one time BEFORE this happened!
I do not know to make a new hread for this or not.........if anyone wants to.
I will add more info, waiting on news!

Seriously? Who knew?
WOW

michmi
02-10-2012, 01:39 PM
Just when i thought we had heard the worst every day new details that break the heart and boggle the mind. My heart breaks for these boys and their family. My heart breaks for everyone involved and their families also. It is just the saddest case I think I have ever followed and it keeps getting worse. Bless those involved and I hope somehow they find peace.

I feel the same way. Every day, more horrifying. I do keep reading because it reminds me exactly how evil a supposed "human" being can be, and to always be aware that they walk amongst us every day.

karen7868
02-10-2012, 01:49 PM
Probably not the right thread but I just saw this--a released photo of JP at the bank doing his 7000 withdrawal.


http://www.ksl.com/?nid=148&sid=19183339&s_cid=article-popular-2

Thanks for posting this. I've been waiting for the bank info.

Boy, he sure had some dark circles under those evil eyes. He had them during the court hearing also.

I bet he did not sleep a wink before the hearing until this heinous act.

He had probably just been sitting up days and nights planning this out.

He makes me sick. His <mod snip> family is supposed to be on Dr. Phil today.
I need to get busy and put away all throwable items to keep my TV safe.

<mod snip>

Openmyeyes
02-10-2012, 03:47 PM
okay the WTAE news was BS........they never mentioned the BEFORE........all they mentioned was the axe being used before fire....media hype once again.......sorry I thought jp
had a trial run, but does not seem so.

Ya know, none of us would doubt he was capable of that now....

epiphany
02-10-2012, 04:12 PM
Troyer (via satellite) on Dr. Phil now.

Ed Troyer: pre-meditated; we're setting up timeline now; we backed up 24-36 hrs (purchase of gas).

Magdalyn
02-10-2012, 05:23 PM
Thanks for posting this. I've been waiting for the bank info.

Boy, he sure had some dark circles under those evil eyes. He had them during the court hearing also.

I bet he did not sleep a wink before the hearing until this heinous act.

He had probably just been sitting up days and nights planning this out.

He makes me sick. His psycho family is supposed to be on Dr. Phil today.
I need to get busy and put away all throwable items to keep my TV safe.

I am enraged his side of the family (aside from Jennifer Graves) is probably going to be paid for all these interviews and make some serious money; possibly enough to bail SP out of jail.

I was reading too fast and read the above bolded phrase as 'my throwable tv'--meaning a disposable one you could throw across the room when frustrated. :doh: I was going to ask you where you got it--I could have used it during the Casey Anthony trial.

karen7868
02-10-2012, 05:33 PM
I was reading too fast and read the above bolded phrase as 'my throwable tv'--meaning a disposable one you could throw across the room when frustrated. :doh: I was going to ask you where you got it--I could have used it during the Casey Anthony trial.

I probably could throw it. It' pretty light. LOL.

Luckily, it's Susan's side of the famil on Dr. Phil right now. But I will keep things away or restrain myself during the 20/20 & Dateline shows tonight.

DLT88
02-10-2012, 05:38 PM
I'm so disturbed. Do you think he said he had a surprise for him to get him to the room/area they found the bodies in??

Poor sweet boys!

Either that or I am so afraid he said that to make Charlie turn around so he could wield the axe on him. I prefer to think it did not happen like that, though.

karen7868
02-10-2012, 05:44 PM
Either that or I am so afraid he said that to make Charlie turn around so he could wield the axe on him. I prefer to think it did not happen like that, though.

BBM. Unfortunately, that is what I think due to the social worker hearing Braden cry out.

Charlie was biggest of the 2 boys and Braden had a sore/healing foot, so Braden could not have fought back like Charlie.

Sadly, that leaves a picture in my head that is quite disturbing for me, so I can only imagine how the poor social worker feels.

She will have the sounds of the boys, the smell of gasoline, the feeling of the house exploding, and the sight of the fire. I don't know how you would get over something like that. Honestly.

strawberry
02-10-2012, 05:54 PM
I just caught the end of Dr. Phil. Ann Bremner looks like a truck ran over her. I mean she really looks devastated.

karen7868
02-10-2012, 06:04 PM
I don't know where to post this, but did anyone watch Dr. Phil and see the video of one of the explosions of the house.

WOW! Just Wow!

I still wonder how many gallons of gasoline was in the mini-van? I wondered why he didn't park the vehicle outside of the garage in order to let someone have it.

The only conclusions are he purposefully filled the van up for the added fuel and also to keep from them from searching the van.

Does anyone know if LE searched the vehicle for any blood?

21merc7
02-10-2012, 06:15 PM
I

Does anyone know if LE searched the vehicle for any blood?

RS

LE took the van when Susan first went missing, IDK what they tested for, but would think they looked for blood. That is when JP rented the car and put hundreds of miles on it in 24 hours.

Niner
02-10-2012, 07:20 PM
I'm sure Satan himself was there to greet him. "Hey Josh! I've got a big surprise for you!"

O.M.G. :what: wouldn't that be a karma moment for him...

Perodicticus potto
02-10-2012, 07:33 PM
When I heard about JP's words to his son, my first thought was, "Sounds like he saw The Shining one too many times." I have a feeling that to him, in a way, this was all play-acting. Taking his family's lives was a big game.

(Edit: I see a couple of people already mentioned The Shining - apologies, I'm posting from my phone. But that makes me more sure than ever that that's where JP got it.)

Niner
02-10-2012, 07:39 PM
Either that or I am so afraid he said that to make Charlie turn around so he could wield the axe on him. I prefer to think it did not happen like that, though.

don't want to sound cruel, but on another thread I read that both boys were hit on the BACK of their necks... :maddening:

Marah
02-12-2012, 12:52 PM
I had not heard about the hatchet until this show. I am so disgusted. Poor babies.

FLmom777
02-12-2012, 01:24 PM
RS

LE took the van when Susan first went missing, IDK what they tested for, but would think they looked for blood. That is when JP rented the car and put hundreds of miles on it in 24 hours.

They also took it when they did the search of sp's house just before his arrest. I remember discussing it here and thinking they may.have put a gps tracker on it at that time.

dovebar
02-12-2012, 02:14 PM
What the hatchet also shows to me is that JP didn't just kill in "passive" ways - like starting a fire or leaving someone to freeze in the snow. He was willing to hit someone with just one blow, sufficient to incapacitate them. That takes a reasonable amount of intent and force, and means he didn't have a problem with blood either.

gwenabob
02-12-2012, 02:44 PM
What the hatchet also shows to me is that JP didn't just kill in "passive" ways - like starting a fire or leaving someone to freeze in the snow. He was willing to hit someone with just one blow, sufficient to incapacitate them. That takes a reasonable amount of intent and force, and means he didn't have a problem with blood either.

Good point. He may have had a "big surprise" for Susan out in the desert that dark, cold night.

Marah
02-12-2012, 03:11 PM
Did they report in the media about the hatchet besides 20/20?

ThoughtFox
02-12-2012, 03:44 PM
Did they report in the media about the hatchet besides 20/20?

Yes, that detail came out before 20/20 announced their special.

Feb. 6th:

Powell and his sons died of smoke inhalation, Pierce County Medical Examiner's Office investigator Melissa Baker said Monday. However, the Powell boys also suffered "chop injuries" that contributed to their deaths. Charles, 7, was struck on his neck and while Braden, 5, had injuries to both his head and neck, Baker said.

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504083_162-57372394-504083/authorities-powell-planned-fire-dead-boys-found-with-chop-injuries/

Feb. 7th:

The sons of Josh Powell, who were just 7 and 5, suffered what police described as "chop wounds" to their heads and necks before the Graham, Wash., home went up in flames as a helpless social worker looked on Sunday. The cause of death for all three is believed to be smoke inhalation.

The grisly new details emerged as investigators combed through the charred rubble of the home Monday and released new details about the horrifying climax to a long, bizarre saga.

"This was definitely a deliberate, planned-out event," Pierce County Sheriff's Detective Ed Troyer said.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/02/06/husband-missing-utah-mom-spent-some-time-planning-fire-that-killed-him-sons/

momtective
02-12-2012, 07:58 PM
I guess this is as good a place as any to put this excellent article since it does mention the 20/20 interview.

Powell story was test for newspaper

Our coverage in today’s paper of the memorial for Charlie and Braden Powell marks the end of an emotional week for our community and one that tested the newsroom as we tried to be thorough but sensitive on a story that drew national coverage.

We debated many times how to cover the agonizing details that seeped out day after day.

Shortly after the killings, we requested an interview with the social worker who took the Powell boys to their father’s house last Sunday. She declined our request, saying she was too upset, and asked that we not use her name. We honored her wishes, trying to give some space to this woman who obviously was suffering. She didn’t speak with Seattle broadcasters, either, although some named her right away.

Suddenly midweek, ABC’s “20/20” announced its exclusive interview with Elizabeth Griffin-Hall that aired in full Friday night. The way it came about left some wondering how the network got the interview.

Read more here: http://www.thenewstribune.com/2012/02/12/2023026/powell-story-was-test-for-newspaper.html#storylink=omni_popular#storylink=cp y

dovebar
02-12-2012, 10:29 PM
Don't read the new People magazine story unless you have a strong stomach - it's very sympathetic to JP. Not only is his photo on the cover, and an enormous photo as "loving family" inside. Not only does it include an entire sidebar column of a day the reporter spent with loving father JP who just wanted for people to get to know him....it accepts without any evidence his allegation that Mormons had ganged up on him and made his life impossible! In other words, poor JP he was a loving father, just as pictured in the photos and as he "seemed" to the reporter (hello, social worker) but he was tragically pushed over the edge by those Mormons.

momtective
02-12-2012, 11:08 PM
Don't read the new People magazine story unless you have a strong stomach - it's very sympathetic to JP. Not only is his photo on the cover, and an enormous photo as "loving family" inside. Not only does it include an entire sidebar column of a day the reporter spent with loving father JP who just wanted for people to get to know him....it accepts without any evidence his allegation that Mormons had ganged up on him and made his life impossible! In other words, poor JP he was a loving father, just as pictured in the photos and as he "seemed" to the reporter (hello, social worker) but he was tragically pushed over the edge by those Mormons.

Funny, we haven't heard a word about funeral arraignments for Josh have we? Such a well respected family man and all, one would think he'd have a proper burial. :doh: NOT!

Perodicticus potto
02-13-2012, 05:18 AM
Don't read the new People magazine story unless you have a strong stomach - it's very sympathetic to JP. Not only is his photo on the cover, and an enormous photo as "loving family" inside. Not only does it include an entire sidebar column of a day the reporter spent with loving father JP who just wanted for people to get to know him....it accepts without any evidence his allegation that Mormons had ganged up on him and made his life impossible! In other words, poor JP he was a loving father, just as pictured in the photos and as he "seemed" to the reporter (hello, social worker) but he was tragically pushed over the edge by those Mormons.

What the ...? Did they write the story before he killed the kids and then not want to waste the copy?

dovebar
02-14-2012, 01:43 AM
What the ...? Did they write the story before he killed the kids and then not want to waste the copy?

To me, it showed how adept SP and JP are/were at pulling the wool over people's eyes (no pun intended).

mysteriew
02-14-2012, 12:51 PM
Funny, we haven't heard a word about funeral arraignments for Josh have we? Such a well respected family man and all, one would think he'd have a proper burial. :doh: NOT!

My guess is that his service will be very quiet and very private.