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View Full Version : Powell's Graham house a 'fake,' investigators say



SuziQ
02-14-2012, 11:04 PM
I wasn't sure where to put this info. If there is a better place please merge. TIA.

Powell's Graham house a 'fake,' investigators say

http://www.ksl.com/?nid=148&sid=19227399&title=powells-graham-house-a-fake-investigators-say&s_cid=featured-1

Investigators in Pierce County, Wash., are calling home that Josh Powell set fire to on Feb. 5 an elaborate "ruse."

At a recent town hall-style meeting with the former neighbors in Graham, authorities said Powell did not live in that house.
More at link.

GreenTeam
02-14-2012, 11:22 PM
Stunning...So where was he really living? At SP's house?

gwenabob
02-14-2012, 11:32 PM
Stunning...So where was he really living? At SP's house?

That's what I read in another article. That way he would have Alina to cook and clean for him.

Sulamith
02-14-2012, 11:35 PM
It is really too bad that LE did not figure out that Josh's house was a ruse before he blew up that house and murdered his kids. If he was still living at his father's house...why oh why, did LE not know that? I am beginning to think that LE in Utah and WA are throwing anything out there now to try to CYA.

Kimster
02-14-2012, 11:47 PM
I think they may have known he wasn't staying there very much and using it as a ruse, but I'm sure they had NO IDEA he would use it to murder his boys.

AngelWings444
02-14-2012, 11:53 PM
LE can't follow him around 24/7, nor can they be a fly on the wall in the house to see if he is actually "living" there.

I wonder if CPS knew he wasn't really living there? Different ball game if they did? Or I wonder if they wouldn't care and would just consider it a place to have supervised visits, knowing the kids wouldn't live there?

Some rules/laws need to change and better communication between all parties needs to happen in the future.

JMO

dovebar
02-15-2012, 12:10 AM
It is really too bad that LE did not figure out that Josh's house was a ruse before he blew up that house and murdered his kids. If he was still living at his father's house...why oh why, did LE not know that? I am beginning to think that LE in Utah and WA are throwing anything out there now to try to CYA.

We are told that DFS "checked the house" before visits were allowed. How closely did they check? Open closets and cabinets in the kitchen? Was the place furnished? Details sure will be interesting.

gwenabob
02-15-2012, 12:12 AM
We are told that DFS "checked the house" before visits were allowed. How closely did they check? Open closets and cabinets in the kitchen? Was the place furnished? Details sure will be interesting.

Probably stuffed it with all the furnishings from his Utah house. I heard he hung pictures of Susan all around as well. Then burned it down.

LCoastMom
02-15-2012, 12:15 AM
Did JP tell the courts he had moved into his own place after SP's arrest or was he told he had to move out in order to see his kids?

I thought I remembered this from an early custody hearing, but I could be remembering wrong. :( Either way I still believe JP is responsible for the murder of Charlie and Braden, I feel that he would have done this no matter where he saw the kids, no matter what obstacles he faced. Those were HIS KIDS and no one was going to tell him he couldn't have them.

karen7868
02-15-2012, 12:22 AM
So, the Saturday night prior to the fire, Josh stayed with Alina at SP's house?

If so, how could she not pick up on something was about to happen and that he definitely WAS supposed to have visitation with the kids that Sunday; therefore, she knew the kids WERE INDEED there when she made her 911 call.

I think I read somewhere that these were bi-weekly visits and that Sunday would have made the 24th visit.

<modsnip>

Knowledge is power. If Alina had the knowledge, she could have changed the situation and prevented this from happening. She should be held accountable for anything she knew and she didn't prevent.

I WANT CONFIRMATION THAT IT WAS INDEED JOSH POWELL'S CORPSE IN THAT HOUSE.

GreenTeam
02-15-2012, 12:23 AM
http://www.komonews.com/news/local/130654258.html

"He told a judge he'd be moving out of the house and that his family would not be posting bail for Steve Powell, who remains in the Pierce County Jail. "

GreenTeam
02-15-2012, 12:26 AM
Here it sounds like a condition he had to meet for custody:

http://www.thenewstribune.com/2012/02/05/2014102/powell-discussed-hope-frustrations.html

"State officials told Judge Kathryn Nelson during Wednesday’s hearing that Powell had been abiding by the conditions necessary to regain custody of his sons, including moving out of his father’s house."

dovebar
02-15-2012, 12:30 AM
Probably stuffed it with all the furnishings from his Utah house. I heard he hung pictures of Susan all around as well. Then burned it down.

That seems possible. But why could firefighters see so easily that it was staged - and DFS couldn't? That is what I am wondering.

bessie
02-15-2012, 12:43 AM
People who live across the street, up the street and behind the house’s backyard said Monday they thought the place was abandoned. They had never seen Powell or the boys there.

Detectives believe Powell created a fake home to use for supervised visits with the boys.

"He set it up like a rental place, with pictures of the family," Wood said. "I think it was staged so when CPS (Child Protective Services) came, it would look like a loving family."http://www.thenewstribune.com/2012/02/14/2026058/investigators-josh-powell-used.html?storylink=twt#storylink=cpy

He had just moved into a new place and was living alone. No one would expect his cupboards and closets to be overstuffed. He was probably clever enough to leave just enough clutter around to make the place look lived in.

mrsu
02-15-2012, 03:30 AM
This was reported on Dateline or 20/20. They said he had hung up stuff on the walls and had stuff in the living room, toys for the boys, to make it appear that he lived there, but he only went there for the visitation. They had also mentioned they spoke with the landlady and said she rented to Josh because she believed people deserved second chances.

Yellow Rose
02-15-2012, 09:38 AM
Wow, this just gets more disturbing and more bizarre every day. I would absolutely like to see what is in the paperwork they found at the landfill. Hopefully SOMETHING will tie back to Susan. I so want her to rest with her sons....for the sake of her parents and dearest friends. Though I never met her, I feel like I could have been one of her closest friends.

Irish_Eyes
02-15-2012, 09:59 AM
I think this is exactly JP's personality. They told him he had to move out if he wanted his kids, and this was just another way of saying "I do it MY way....I don't have to play by your rules."

TallCoolOne
02-15-2012, 10:22 AM
This was reported on Dateline or 20/20. They said he had hung up stuff on the walls and had stuff in the living room, toys for the boys, to make it appear that he lived there, but he only went there for the visitation. They had also mentioned they spoke with the landlady and said she rented to Josh because she believed people deserved second chances.
Humph. I have to wonder how that's working out for her.......

I'm just sayin'...

ThoughtFox
02-15-2012, 10:53 AM
This was reported on Dateline or 20/20. They said he had hung up stuff on the walls and had stuff in the living room, toys for the boys, to make it appear that he lived there, but he only went there for the visitation. They had also mentioned they spoke with the landlady and said she rented to Josh because she believed people deserved second chances.

I think that's called making a decision without enough information. :websleuther:

And now - no tenants, and even no house left to rent.

I wonder why so many people underestimated this guy. Yet it has been all over the news for years that he managed to make his wife disappear and basically got away with it. Why would anyone trust him? :waitasec:

lillygator
02-15-2012, 11:05 AM
every day this gets more and more disturbing. how nothing was picked up on prior to him doing this.

Isabelle
02-15-2012, 11:08 AM
I take it if Josh wasn't living in the house, LE was to keeping tabs on him. He had not committed a crime in Washington State (that is a lame excuse).

amandab
02-15-2012, 11:18 AM
That seems possible. But why could firefighters see so easily that it was staged - and DFS couldn't? That is what I am wondering.

Through the clarity of hindsight, I would think.

AnaTeresa
02-15-2012, 11:25 AM
This was reported on Dateline or 20/20. They said he had hung up stuff on the walls and had stuff in the living room, toys for the boys, to make it appear that he lived there, but he only went there for the visitation. They had also mentioned they spoke with the landlady and said she rented to Josh because she believed people deserved second chances.

BBM. Poor lady. I'm sure she feels just as horrified by all of this - what a way to pay her back for trying to be a nice person.

Kimster
02-15-2012, 11:29 AM
I think that's called making a decision without enough information. :websleuther:

And now - no tenants, and even no house left to rent.

I wonder why so many people underestimated this guy. Yet it has been all over the news for years that he managed to make his wife disappear and basically got away with it. Why would anyone trust him? :waitasec:

Most of the people in my life don't know the ins and outs of any of these cases, even Kyron Horman who went missing less than two hours away. I've become their true crime reporter for those-who-want-the-facts.

And quite honestly, before Caylee's case, I only knew bits and pieces of cases and had no idea if the media was wrongly putting people in the spotlight.

Now, if I'd only use this learned lesson in other aspects of my life, I could make better decisions all the way around. :kimsterwink:

krimekat
02-15-2012, 11:45 AM
It is really too bad that LE did not figure out that Josh's house was a ruse before he blew up that house and murdered his kids. If he was still living at his father's house...why oh why, did LE not know that? I am beginning to think that LE in Utah and WA are throwing anything out there now to try to CYA.

wouldn't there have been a home visit with Children & Family Services to ensure his living space? wow -- I'm thinking CYA, too, but knowing the kind hearts of the Coxes, there really is no need . . . mhoo

dovebar
02-15-2012, 11:48 AM
Through the clarity of hindsight, I would think.

I am guessing it's more than that. A couch but no lamps or anything else. No clothes in the closets, nothing in the cabinets, no toothbrushes in the bathroom. A very bare stage set. I wonder if we will find that DFS, in fact, never did check the home but simply began to drop the kids off there in a bare living room. I would like to know what the social worker sat on, and where, on prior visits to this house. Were the kids ever given food or a glass of water? Something is really fishy here for this info to break very soon after the fire was put out.

gwenabob
02-15-2012, 11:52 AM
Through the clarity of hindsight, I would think.

They could no doubt tell by what debris was left in a fire. They know what a fully stocked, lived-in house looks like after burning down. This probably had an empty garage, empty cupboards and closets and dressers. No linen in the linen closet. No shampoo or shaving supplies, etc. There was probably very little debris beyond basic furnishings.

dovebar
02-15-2012, 11:55 AM
They could no doubt tell by what debris was left in a fire. They know what a fully stocked, lived-in house looks like after burning down. This probably had an empty garage, empty cupboards and closets and dressers. No linen in the linen closet. No shampoo or shaving supplies, etc. There was probably very little debris beyond basic furnishings.

That is what I think too. There might be more of the house left than is normal because there wasn't as much to burn as in an ordinary house.

It just raises the question for me, what is DFS' idea of a "home check"?

AnaTeresa
02-15-2012, 12:00 PM
It's always possible he set things up for the home check and then moved back out what he wanted back at his real home, leaving bits of the "set" there.

dovebar
02-15-2012, 12:04 PM
It's always possible he set things up for the home check and then moved back out what he wanted back at his real home, leaving bits of the "set" there.

True. That raises the question of family complicity. Obviously, people like Alina knew he didn't live there but was lying to the court.

pip
02-15-2012, 12:07 PM
True. That raises the question of family complicity. Obviously, people like Alina knew he didn't live there but was lying to the court.

Let's hope we see charges as such against her for lying for him. It would be well-deserved.

mck16
02-15-2012, 12:08 PM
True. That raises the question of family complicity. Obviously, people like Alina knew he didn't live there but was lying to the court.

I also thought that FBI, investigators were watching him and were close to making an arrest. It doesn't sound like they were watching him too closely. jmo

TexasCharm
02-15-2012, 12:27 PM
I rented an apt once for 6 months .. had one recliner, two beds and a phone. I got my mail there and sometimes ate there. I spent most of that 6 months at my fiancee's house .. I'm sure there were folks that didn't think I "lived there" ..

I'm sure he got the house because he HAD TO. And to a point, it was a ruse. But I'm also sure JP had a hard time being by himself .. so he spent most of his time elsewhere..

They couldn't very well tell him that he had to spend X% of time at the house or it isnt' officially where he lives. Nor did they have the manpower to follow him 24/7 ....

I DO think JP had nepharious intentions.

I'm tired of hearing everyone else in the world getting the blame. People that obey the law are bound by the law ..

imo

karen7868
02-15-2012, 12:51 PM
It's always possible he set things up for the home check and then moved back out what he wanted back at his real home, leaving bits of the "set" there.

BBM. I think it also may be possible.

Sorry for this long post. I wish they would set up a rant thread.

First, we know these supervised visits were for 3 hours. During that 3 hours, the SW had to have needed to use the restroom, how did no one notice he had no toothbrush, shampoo, hand towels, towels, etc. that you would normally see in a bathroom (BTW, I do not in any way blame the SW..just wondering if the house was still set up the last time she visited).

Second, if he did have this set up and then moved the things out after the hearing, THEN ALINA KNEW. There is no possible way she did not notice this, and I would not put it past her to have helped him stage the house.

Josh seemed to me to be lazy. I can see him getting Alina, at the least, help him set up/stage the house. Hanging pics, stocking kitchen, bathroom, and giving it that womanly touch, if you will.

Lastly, since LE now knows and suspected from the very beginning after the fire, WHY HAVE THEY NO ISSUED ANOTHER SEARCH WARRANT FOR SP'S HOUSE?

We know he was supposedly working from home; therefore, I am willing to bet his computer is at SP's home. WHY HAVE THEY NOT CONFISCATED THAT COMPUTER YET?

Remember how Scott Peterson did searches on his computer for the tidal waves for the bay he dumped Laci's body in?

How many criminals/murderers have they now caught by computer searches?

I have always felt if they had JP's computer, they would find clues to where Susan is. I had lost hope thinking it burned up in the fire. Now I am not so sure with this new information. The computer is the first thing I thought of.

I was wondering why the ONLY thing I could make out in the fire that resembled furniture was a kitchen chair. In the photos, on the back right side of the house, that was the kitchen. You can tell where the french doors had been and it looked like a metal kitchen chair in the pics.

I don't mean to sound like a not it all and appear to have and agenda against Alina, but I can't help for feeling that she knows so much more than she is letting on and it makes me angry.

Stripehaven
02-15-2012, 01:09 PM
THIS IS NOT CONFIRMED INFO: I may be getting this totally wrong, and I have no links...BUT I heard various discussions on the local news here (Seattle) which made me think that Josh had been having the supervised visits at his pastor's house (after complaining that prior visits, held somewhere where other families were as well, were not private enough). And that the fatal visit was somehow finagled so it could be at the rental house - like, the pastor thought that had been approved but it wasn't? Or something like that. In any case, I was left with the impression that the visits had not been occurring at the rental home. AGAIN, this may be my faulty understanding or a misconception. There was so much coverage here and, like everyone, I was in shock so maybe I got it wrong. But if it's correct, that would explain why CPS never had a chance to see that the house was staged. (I'm left wondering why he would bother to stage it if he had his horrible plans in place...but maybe he didn't plan too far in advance....shudder. Who can understand this??)

Also, if Alina did help him stage it, I would think that means only that she was doing usual Powell stuff: putting one over on The Man. I'm sure it never would have occurred to her that anything horrible was going to happen to the boys. But the Powells clearly don't like following rules or being told what to do. IMO!

TexasCharm
02-15-2012, 01:11 PM
I'm sure Alina knows a LOT more than she is letting on.

At the time, though, she was probably just "helping out her poor persecuted brother". In hindsight she is probably covering her aaaaaaaaa.... because it looks more like she was an enabler.

She's in survival mode and with the warped training these siblings had their whole life, I wouldn't bet on her giving it up until she, also, is backed into a corner.

imo

Ransom
02-15-2012, 01:17 PM
THIS IS NOT CONFIRMED INFO: I may be getting this totally wrong, and I have no links...BUT I heard various discussions on the local news here (Seattle) which made me think that Josh had been having the supervised visits at his pastor's house (after complaining that prior visits, held somewhere where other families were as well, were not private enough). And that the fatal visit was somehow finagled so it could be at the rental house - like, the pastor thought that had been approved but it wasn't? Or something like that. In any case, I was left with the impression that the visits had not been occurring at the rental home. AGAIN, this may be my faulty understanding or a misconception. There was so much coverage here and, like everyone, I was in shock so maybe I got it wrong. But if it's correct, that would explain why CPS never had a chance to see that the house was staged. (I'm left wondering why he would bother to stage it if he had his horrible plans in place...but maybe he didn't plan too far in advance....shudder. Who can understand this??)

Also, if Alina did help him stage it, I would think that means only that she was doing usual Powell stuff: putting one over on The Man. I'm sure it never would have occurred to her that anything horrible was going to happen to the boys. But the Powells clearly don't like following rules or being told what to do. IMO!

http://www.fox13now.com/news/kstu-josh-powell-pastor-josh-powells-pastor-shares-thoughts-on-murdersuicide-20120208,0,2152397.story


In October 2011, I helped Josh move from our neighborhood into the house in Graham. In November 2011, Josh asked us to assist him with child visitation by supervising visits with his sons. We were supervising weekly visits in our home for The Department of Social and Health Services between Josh, Charlie and Braden. Our children would play together during these visits.

DLT88
02-15-2012, 01:18 PM
I think that's called making a decision without enough information. :websleuther:

And now - no tenants, and even no house left to rent.

I wonder why so many people underestimated this guy. Yet it has been all over the news for years that he managed to make his wife disappear and basically got away with it. Why would anyone trust him? :waitasec:

I just get so boggled thinking that JP could possibly rent an entire house from anyone since the guy has no employment. I work all the time but don't make enough to rent a whole house by myself and no one would rent me one -- but this guy gets a house rental? I have to show employment, bank account records, etc. and I don't get one. But a murderer gets one.

Ransom
02-15-2012, 01:25 PM
I just get so boggled thinking that JP could possibly rent an entire house from anyone since the guy has no employment. I work all the time but don't make enough to rent a whole house by myself and no one would rent me one -- but this guy gets a house rental? I have to show employment, bank account records, etc. and I don't get one. But a murderer gets one.

He was employed:
http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/news/53474647-78/wadagnolo-powell-business-josh.html.csp

karen7868
02-15-2012, 01:31 PM
http://www.fox13now.com/news/kstu-josh-powell-pastor-josh-powells-pastor-shares-thoughts-on-murdersuicide-20120208,0,2152397.story


In October 2011, I helped Josh move from our neighborhood into the house in Graham. In November 2011, Josh asked us to assist him with child visitation by supervising visits with his sons. We were supervising weekly visits in our home for The Department of Social and Health Services between Josh, Charlie and Braden. Our children would play together during these visits.

I remember reading this and wondering why the SW did not elaborate and say this in her interview that these visits were typically done at the pastor's house instead of the rental house.

I would like more info. about this. I do recall something about the pastor had made arrangements to meet JP after the last visit.

This would lead to even more questions of the condition of the rental house when the SW visited.

jmarple
02-15-2012, 01:37 PM
http://www.thenewstribune.com/2012/02/14/2026058/investigators-josh-powell-used.html

Story from our local news paper (Tacoma, WA). It does state that there was an "explosion" at the house due to the gasoline.

TexasCharm
02-15-2012, 01:54 PM
http://www.thenewstribune.com/2012/02/14/2026058/investigators-josh-powell-used.html

Story from our local news paper (Tacoma, WA). It does state that there was an "explosion" at the house due to the gasoline.

"He committed the most evil act," Sanders said. "And he gave them the greatest gift, which is to be in their mother’s arms."

karen7868
02-15-2012, 02:13 PM
Let's hope we see charges as such against her for lying for him. It would be well-deserved.


THIS IS NOT CONFIRMED INFO: I may be getting this totally wrong, and I have no links...BUT I heard various discussions on the local news here (Seattle) which made me think that Josh had been having the supervised visits at his pastor's house (after complaining that prior visits, held somewhere where other families were as well, were not private enough). And that the fatal visit was somehow finagled so it could be at the rental house - like, the pastor thought that had been approved but it wasn't? Or something like that. In any case, I was left with the impression that the visits had not been occurring at the rental home. AGAIN, this may be my faulty understanding or a misconception. There was so much coverage here and, like everyone, I was in shock so maybe I got it wrong. But if it's correct, that would explain why CPS never had a chance to see that the house was staged. (I'm left wondering why he would bother to stage it if he had his horrible plans in place...but maybe he didn't plan too far in advance....shudder. Who can understand this??)

Also, if Alina did help him stage it, I would think that means only that she was doing usual Powell stuff: putting one over on The Man. I'm sure it never would have occurred to her that anything horrible was going to happen to the boys. But the Powells clearly don't like following rules or being told what to do. IMO!

BBM. I respectfully disagree. With as much violence that went on in the SP home, Alina definitely knew the violence Josh was capable of. She even stated in the 911 call that "he's never hurt HER".

I found that an odd comment. If JP had just staged this house, the only other place he could have been living is with her. These visits were biweekly and this was like the 24th visit (probably 12th Sunday visit). She knew those boys were there every Sunday for 3 hours.

She should be charged as an accessory and inhindering an investigation. She was in court with him during that last hearing. She had knowledge that he did not live in that house. She refused to turn over her cell phone and the emails to LE until they had to get a search warrant.

lillygator
02-15-2012, 02:27 PM
I hope they shake Alina down....

do we know that there weren't toiletries and such in the house? or is that speculation?

princesspjs
02-15-2012, 03:10 PM
Josh Powell set up sham residence to mislead authorities before killing sons, self, officials say (http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/02/15/josh-powell-did-not-live-at-home-where-sons-died-in-gas-fueled-explosion/)

Authorities said Josh Powell was not living at the house he rigged as a bomb and blew up, killing himself and his two young sons, the Tacoma News Tribune reported Tuesday.

Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/02/15/josh-powell-did-not-live-at-home-where-sons-died-in-gas-fueled-explosion

matou
02-15-2012, 03:45 PM
It makes me think he meticulously planned everything. From Susan's death and disposal to the steps he took before killing his children. The trip to the storage locker and to the dump could be a red herring IMO. He's that devious. Why would he dispose of anything in the landfill when he knew he would completely destroy everything in the house? He knew he would be linked to being at the storage locker that day, so why bother? KWIM?

itsreenw
02-15-2012, 05:33 PM
Detectives said they believe Powell passed the abandoned home off as his so that he could be granted supervised visits with his sons, Charlie, 7, and Braden, 5.
"He set it up like a rental place, with pictures of the family," Sgt. Denny Wood said at the meeting, the newspaper reports.


Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/02/15/josh-powell-did-not-live-at-home-where-sons-died-in-gas-fueled-explosion/#ixzz1mUI7kWyl (http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/02/15/josh-powell-did-not-live-at-home-where-sons-died-in-gas-fueled-explosion/#ixzz1mUI7kWyl[/QUOTE)

BBM...I'm confused. Did he rent the place or was it just an abandoned property? I'm reading posts with quotes from the landlord but the post above sounds like he saw an empty house and squatted there solely for the purpose of getting the kids alone and doing what he did.

If he was really renting the house, why would he, being a grown man, rather pay rent for his own place but stay at his father's house? IMO, SP had a cult-like hold on JP and Alina.

DLT88
02-15-2012, 05:34 PM
BBM. I think it also may be possible.


Lastly, since LE now knows and suspected from the very beginning after the fire, WHY HAVE THEY NO ISSUED ANOTHER SEARCH WARRANT FOR SP'S HOUSE?

We know he was supposedly working from home; therefore, I am willing to bet his computer is at SP's home. WHY HAVE THEY NOT CONFISCATED THAT COMPUTER YET?

Remember how Scott Peterson did searches on his computer for the tidal waves for the bay he dumped Laci's body in?

How many criminals/murderers have they now caught by computer searches?

I have always felt if they had JP's computer, they would find clues to where Susan is. I had lost hope thinking it burned up in the fire. Now I am not so sure with this new information. The computer is the first thing I thought of.

I was wondering why the ONLY thing I could make out in the fire that resembled furniture was a kitchen chair. In the photos, on the back right side of the house, that was the kitchen. You can tell where the french doors had been and it looked like a metal kitchen chair in the pics.

I don't mean to sound like a not it all and appear to have and agenda against Alina, but I can't help for feeling that she knows so much more than she is letting on and it makes me angry.


They are now saying they have JP's computers and thinks there may be clues to Susan's death on the hard drives. But sneaky JP used encryption, so the cops are goingi to have a hard time getting through the encryption if they can at all. It depends on the level of encryption that JP used. High level would be almost impossible to get through, I was told by a technician. Lower levels might be possible. So I hope they can hire some hackers to do the work.

http://www.kirotv.com/news/news/crime-law/secret-computer-files-may-hold-clues-about-susan-p/nHdGb/

gngr~snap
02-15-2012, 05:48 PM
They are now saying they have JP's computers and thinks there may be clues to Susan's death on the hard drives. But sneaky JP used encryption, so the cops are goingi to have a hard time getting through the encryption if they can at all. It depends on the level of encryption that JP used. High level would be almost impossible to get through, I was told by a technician. Lower levels might be possible. So I hope they can hire some hackers to do the work.

http://www.kirotv.com/news/news/crime-law/secret-computer-files-may-hold-clues-about-susan-p/nHdGb/

Get the people who trained Josh to assist the police then. He had to learn from SOMEONE. Surely there is someone left in the US that's is more technologically advanced (smarter) than JP!

DLT88
02-15-2012, 05:49 PM
http://www.thenewstribune.com/2012/02/14/2026058/investigators-josh-powell-used.html

Story from our local news paper (Tacoma, WA). It does state that there was an "explosion" at the house due to the gasoline.

Wow, it talks about the stuff in the storage unit -- dried foods and water as if JP thought he'd have to survive hidden somewhere for a long time. And the boxes and boxes of receipts in JP's bedroom at SP's House of Craziness really showed how demented JP was. People who are that meticulous about such small things and never throw out any receipt are usually one step away from cracking up.

"He doesn't deal on emotion". Exactly. He was a sociopath.

HotLavaJavas
02-15-2012, 05:55 PM
They are now saying they have JP's computers and thinks there may be clues to Susan's death on the hard drives. But sneaky JP used encryption, so the cops are goingi to have a hard time getting through the encryption if they can at all. It depends on the level of encryption that JP used. High level would be almost impossible to get through, I was told by a technician. Lower levels might be possible. So I hope they can hire some hackers to do the work.

http://www.kirotv.com/news/news/crime-law/secret-computer-files-may-hold-clues-about-susan-p/nHdGb/

I'm confident they'll be able to crack his encryption. I imagine there's a lot of computer experts who wouldn't mind helping out in this case, and they're a lot more talented than Josh was.

matou
02-15-2012, 05:58 PM
There was soot in their windpipes, Wood said, which meant they were still breathing at the time of the explosion. But he believes they were unconscious after their father hit them, and did not suffer.

Read more here: http://www.thenewstribune.com/2012/02/14/2026058/investigators-josh-powell-used.html#storylink=cpy

gngr~snap
02-15-2012, 05:59 PM
Wow, it talks about the stuff in the storage unit -- dried foods and water as if JP thought he'd have to survive hidden somewhere for a long time. And the boxes and boxes of receipts in JP's bedroom at SP's House of Craziness really showed how demented JP was. People who are that meticulous about such small things and never throw out any receipt are usually one step away from cracking up.

"He doesn't deal on emotion". Exactly. He was a sociopath.

I hope he HAD planned to go on the run/into hiding and mistimed everything! BOOM!!!
bye bye - dummy!

Was his computer in storage? If so I'm not sure he meant to killl himself or it would have burned up to.

gngr~snap
02-15-2012, 06:02 PM
I'm confident they'll be able to crack his encryption. I imagine there's a lot of computer experts who wouldn't mind helping out in this case, and they're a lot more talented than Josh was.

I know a kid that could. can't pass his driver's test but the boy in unfeaking-believeable at what he can do. We had to ban him from using our computers cause we got scared that he might get us in trouble.

HEY they have some great HACKERS in prison... just saying...

tiredblondy
02-15-2012, 06:05 PM
Yep this sounds like a good job for those Annonymous Hackers that wear those masks. They need to be doing more stuff like this and finding out about these husbands of all these missing women.

HotLavaJavas
02-15-2012, 06:06 PM
I know a kid that could. can't pass his driver's test but the boy in unfeaking-believeable at what he can do. We had to ban him from using our computers cause we got scared that he might get us in trouble.

HEY they have some great HACKERS in prison... just saying...

Exactly. There's many levels of encryption, and I can see Josh thinking he's pulling one over on the PD. I have much more faith in the PD than that.

Interestingly, though, the KIRO article struck me as the PD intentionally making it seem like they weren't capable of handling the encryption.

Stripehaven
02-15-2012, 06:09 PM
BBM. I respectfully disagree. With as much violence that went on in the SP home, Alina definitely knew the violence Josh was capable of. She even stated in the 911 call that "he's never hurt HER".


I see what you mean. I was thinking strictly that I doubt she helped stage the home knowing that he had specific plans...but of course I don't really know - and plenty of evil signs were there.

DLT88
02-15-2012, 07:00 PM
I hope he HAD planned to go on the run/into hiding and mistimed everything! BOOM!!!
bye bye - dummy!

Was his computer in storage? If so I'm not sure he meant to killl himself or it would have burned up to.

I think the computer was at SP's house that they are talking about but that would mean they've had it for quite a while. I agree with what someone suggested -- get a young smart kid and they'll get past that encryption after awhile.

DLT88
02-15-2012, 07:03 PM
There was soot in their windpipes, Wood said, which meant they were still breathing at the time of the explosion. But he believes they were unconscious after their father hit them, and did not suffer.

Read more here: http://www.thenewstribune.com/2012/02/14/2026058/investigators-josh-powell-used.html#storylink=cpy

I was hoping the suddenly loss in blood pressure would have made them faint immediately and lose consciousness. Let's hope they didn't know what happened after that. It must have been that way since JP then could freely walk around dousing everything with gas while they were unconscious.

Jacie Estes
02-15-2012, 07:31 PM
Exactly. There's many levels of encryption, and I can see Josh thinking he's pulling one over on the PD. I have much more faith in the PD than that.

Interestingly, though, the KIRO article struck me as the PD intentionally making it seem like they weren't capable of handling the encryption.

BBM They may want to give that impression because of steve's 'interests'. If there are more people involved in a porn ring then they will smugly think LE can't affect them and their actions; a 'wider net' thing.

Jacie Estes
02-15-2012, 07:34 PM
I have a question, there was a burned car and a van in the driveway of the rental. Was there someone else living/staying there?

jmarple
02-15-2012, 07:37 PM
Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/02/15/josh-powell-did-not-live-at-home-where-sons-died-in-gas-fueled-explosion/#ixzz1mUI7kWyl (http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/02/15/josh-powell-did-not-live-at-home-where-sons-died-in-gas-fueled-explosion/#ixzz1mUI7kWyl[/QUOTE)

BBM...I'm confused. Did he rent the place or was it just an abandoned property? I'm reading posts with quotes from the landlord but the post above sounds like he saw an empty house and squatted there solely for the purpose of getting the kids alone and doing what he did.

If he was really renting the house, why would he, being a grown man, rather pay rent for his own place but stay at his father's house? IMO, SP had a cult-like hold on JP and Alina.

He really was renting the house through a rental agency. An older couple owned the home. They had another home they were living in. The house was empty but not abandoned when it was rented.

HotLavaJavas
02-15-2012, 07:38 PM
BBM They may want to give that impression because of steve's 'interests'. If there are more people involved in a porn ring then they will smugly think LE can't affect them and their actions; a 'wider net' thing.

We think alike Jacie! I think they're divulging information very carefully.

Jacie Estes
02-15-2012, 08:10 PM
We think alike Jacie! I think they're divulging information very carefully.

I haven't had the opportunity to say to you how sorry I am that, after losing your friend, her sons are taken so tragically. We all had hoped for a better outcome.

I will not be surprised to find that this was a money making thing for jp/sp.

GrainneDhu
02-15-2012, 08:16 PM
That seems possible. But why could firefighters see so easily that it was staged - and DFS couldn't? That is what I am wondering.

I may be wrong but my impression from the article was that they searched SP's house again and found most of Josh's stuff there.

It wouldn't be that difficult or expensive to put some clothes in a bedroom and food in the kitchen, make it look like a single person was living there. People do have variable levels of belongings and there are people who "live light."

The only way to know for sure would be to know that he was keeping more stuff somewhere else... say at his father's house.

GrainneDhu
02-15-2012, 08:25 PM
I think that's called making a decision without enough information. :websleuther:

And now - no tenants, and even no house left to rent.

I wonder why so many people underestimated this guy. Yet it has been all over the news for years that he managed to make his wife disappear and basically got away with it. Why would anyone trust him? :waitasec:

I know that in my state, laws intended to prevent discrimination in renting make it really difficult to turn down a qualified tenant.

The only way to stay on the sunny side of the discrimination laws is to keep track of when you get applications. You can get references from employers (past and present) and previous landlords. You can get confirmation of income. The first applicant who meets the criteria of good references, employment and income level is the only safe applicant to offer the rental to.

When I was a child, my parents had great difficulty in finding a place to rent because mixed-race marriages were so unacceptable. It wasn't until my mom started showing up alone that a landlord was willing to rent to her.

I'm not willing to go back to those days.

But I can see how a landlord could feel they had to rent to Powell, depending on the anti-discrimination laws in his area. After all, he had no criminal record, he had a job and could apparently pay the rent.

DLT88
02-15-2012, 08:56 PM
I know that in my state, laws intended to prevent discrimination in renting make it really difficult to turn down a qualified tenant.



But I can see how a landlord could feel they had to rent to Powell, depending on the anti-discrimination laws in his area. After all, he had no criminal record, he had a job and could apparently pay the rent.

JP had a job? Do you know where or what he was doing for a job?

sherbetjello
02-15-2012, 09:08 PM
You can almost crack any encryption, however the amount of time that takes depends.

Could be days, or could be years.

It's easier with a key, of course, but what's also important to know how many bits were used to encrypt. It could take a while to crack it, tbh.

Its crazy that the computers actually made it IF something is on them.

GrainneDhu
02-15-2012, 09:52 PM
JP had a job? Do you know where or what he was doing for a job?

I can't find the link but I remember it was a software company. I was surprised because my impression had been that he was unemployed.

GrainneDhu
02-15-2012, 09:59 PM
You can almost crack any encryption, however the amount of time that takes depends.

Could be days, or could be years.

It's easier with a key, of course, but what's also important to know how many bits were used to encrypt. It could take a while to crack it, tbh.

Its crazy that the computers actually made it IF something is on them.

Hard drives (which is what the majority of computers have) are platters made of glass. If LE is willing to invest the time and huge expense, not even shattering the platter will reliably destroy the data--they can take the pieces, put each piece into a shaped platter and pull off the bits of data from each piece.

It's not a full recovery but it can be enough to make some pretty close guesses as to what was on the drive.

Again, this is hugely expensive (upwards of $100K) for a single hard disk but if someone wants it done badly enough and is willing to pony up the cash, it can be done.

I know the Air Force has concluded that the only truly secure way to dispose of used hard drive platters is to use a bench grinder to literally grind the magnetic media off them. Once it's powdered, it's gone... but until it is powdered, there is a risk it can be recovered.

LinasK
02-15-2012, 10:17 PM
They are now saying they have JP's computers and thinks there may be clues to Susan's death on the hard drives. But sneaky JP used encryption, so the cops are goingi to have a hard time getting through the encryption if they can at all. It depends on the level of encryption that JP used. High level would be almost impossible to get through, I was told by a technician. Lower levels might be possible. So I hope they can hire some hackers to do the work.

http://www.kirotv.com/news/news/crime-law/secret-computer-files-may-hold-clues-about-susan-p/nHdGb/


Get the people who trained Josh to assist the police then. He had to learn from SOMEONE. Surely there is someone left in the US that's is more technologically advanced (smarter) than JP!


I'm confident they'll be able to crack his encryption. I imagine there's a lot of computer experts who wouldn't mind helping out in this case, and they're a lot more talented than Josh was.
The F.B.I. has a whole cyber-crimes division. I believe they are fully capable of cracking high-level sophisticated encryption, without hiring prison hackers. I know someone who works in this division...

Ransom
02-15-2012, 10:26 PM
JP had a job? Do you know where or what he was doing for a job?

I answered in post#39

http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/news/53474647-78/wadagnolo-powell-business-josh.html.csp

gwenabob
02-15-2012, 10:27 PM
http://www.fox13now.com/news/kstu-josh-powell-pastor-josh-powells-pastor-shares-thoughts-on-murdersuicide-20120208,0,2152397.story


In October 2011, I helped Josh move from our neighborhood into the house in Graham. In November 2011, Josh asked us to assist him with child visitation by supervising visits with his sons. We were supervising weekly visits in our home for The Department of Social and Health Services between Josh, Charlie and Braden. Our children would play together during these visits.

Interesting letter. It would be nice if the good pastor could make a home visit over to the Powells and explain how their current actions are just hurting everyone, even their own family. It would be nice if he would ask them to find another cemetery to bury Josh in. That might be a very useful thing for that pastor to do.

Allusonz
02-16-2012, 01:44 AM
BBM They may want to give that impression because of steve's 'interests'. If there are more people involved in a porn ring then they will smugly think LE can't affect them and their actions; a 'wider net' thing.

I agree. I have thought that a wider net was being cast for some time now.

twall
02-16-2012, 05:10 AM
I have a question, there was a burned car and a van in the driveway of the rental. Was there someone else living/staying there?

I'm not seeing a burned car in the driveway...just a burned van in the burned garage. :waitasec:

jmarple
04-11-2012, 10:22 PM
http://www.theolympian.com/2012/04/11/v-print/2065997/powells-house-demolished-to-neighbors.html?storylink=fb

The rental house was demolished today. Everything was removed including the driveway.

Jacie Estes
04-11-2012, 11:08 PM
http://www.theolympian.com/2012/04/11/v-print/2065997/powells-house-demolished-to-neighbors.html?storylink=fb

The rental house was demolished today. Everything was removed including the driveway.

I hope Mr. Small sues the 'heirs' of josh's estate to recoup some or all of the 60K he lost by renting to josh.

gwenabob
04-12-2012, 02:34 AM
I hope Mr. Small sues the 'heirs' of josh's estate to recoup some or all of the 60K he lost by renting to josh.

Well, to be fair, I think the land itself is worth more than $60,000. If he waits a little while, I would think it would be safe to build a new house. It is one thing to live in a house where such a terrible tragedy occurred, but it is a different thing to live in a completely new house built on the same spot.

If he does end up donating the land, then I think the estate should be sued for the loss. I also think the Coxes should sue the estate for Susan's retirement money he STOLE before he moved from Utah.

Jacie Estes
04-12-2012, 09:29 AM
Well, to be fair, I think the land itself is worth more than $60,000. If he waits a little while, I would think it would be safe to build a new house. It is one thing to live in a house where such a terrible tragedy occurred, but it is a different thing to live in a completely new house built on the same spot.

If he does end up donating the land, then I think the estate should be sued for the loss. I also think the Coxes should sue the estate for Susan's retirement money he STOLE before he moved from Utah.

BBM

They absolutely should be sued. How was he able to take the money in the first place? IIRC wasn't he there at the bank after Susan went missing and LE was called?

It seems the neighbors are interested in doing what was done in the Megan Kanka case. The house/property where Megan was murdered was bought, torn down and a park made on the site.
http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1955&dat=19941221&id=RpckAAAAIBAJ&sjid=eqIFAAAAIBAJ&pg=3699,3729354

wenwe4
04-12-2012, 10:25 AM
Here is another article on the house demolition

http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/mobile/53895164-68/powell-josh-graham-pelland.html.csp

LCoastMom
04-13-2012, 07:36 PM
I'm glad for all concerned that the remains of the house are gone. There would never be enough time for the house to be refurbished and rented/sold. It would be a blemish on the neighborhood and a horrific reminder of a tragedy every time the neighbors had to look at the burned out shell. Now, given time a new little cottage could be put on the spot and sold or rented, a house used by social services, better yet a small neighborhood park dedicated to children lost in senseless acts of depravity.

Mr Small and family I hope you recoup every cent and I hope you recover from this trauma that Powell inflicted on your life. Good bless.

Sulamith
04-13-2012, 09:57 PM
Well, to be fair, I think the land itself is worth more than $60,000. If he waits a little while, I would think it would be safe to build a new house. It is one thing to live in a house where such a terrible tragedy occurred, but it is a different thing to live in a completely new house built on the same spot.

If he does end up donating the land, then I think the estate should be sued for the loss. I also think the Coxes should sue the estate for Susan's retirement money he STOLE before he moved from Utah.

I don't know the laws of Utah, but I don't see how the Coxes could sue JP's estate. JP had POW over Susan's retirement money. When my husband went to Afghanistan I had him sign over his POA to me. His parents had no claim to any money/assests of his. The Coxes could sue, but I don't think they could win and the lawyers would get a good chunk of the estate.

gwenabob
04-14-2012, 03:37 AM
I don't know the laws of Utah, but I don't see how the Coxes could sue JP's estate. JP had POW over Susan's retirement money. When my husband went to Afghanistan I had him sign over his POA to me. His parents had no claim to any money/assests of his. The Coxes could sue, but I don't think they could win and the lawyers would get a good chunk of the estate.

I am not a lawyer, but it seems to me he used that POA under fraudulant circumstances. He killed her and he knew it, and used that circumstance in order to clean out money that belonged to the woman he killed. It is wrong for someone to profit from a spouse's death. Since he killed her, anything she had should skip him as an heir. JMO.

meganx3xo
04-14-2012, 08:24 PM
TLC is currently airing a new episode of 20/20 on TLC. It is called 'Desperate Dads' - and is focusing on Josh Powell and another dad from Arkansas.

Sulamith
04-16-2012, 07:37 PM
I am not a lawyer, but it seems to me he used that POA under fraudulant circumstances. He killed her and he knew it, and used that circumstance in order to clean out money that belonged to the woman he killed. It is wrong for someone to profit from a spouse's death. Since he killed her, anything she had should skip him as an heir. JMO.

I agree with you. Of course it it wrong to profit from a spouse's death, but WVPD never said she was dead, only a missing person. I am looking at this from a legal issue. It is most unfortunate that WVPD did not charge JP. But since they did not, I really do not see how JP used SP POW under fraudulant circumstanses.

Allusonz
04-17-2012, 10:22 PM
I as well hope that the owners recoup their losses.

I do as well believe that the Cox's will receive most if not all of the life insurance money.

By bringing a civil suit, I would hope that documents would then be released as I am certain there is much we are not aware of as of yet.

Sulamith brings up a valid point although most believe she is no longer alive, she has not been declared legally deceased.

Just K
04-18-2012, 04:00 PM
It seems like the will & testament of JP would hinge on state/civil/marital laws and the fact that SP has not been declared dead. Perhaps all will have to go into probate until SP is declared dead. None of the Powell's should be entitled to any of the monies and or properties until such time that their rightful owner SP (JP's wife) is declared dead. Especially since, a good portion of his assets were likely derived via the theft of SP's 401K.