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View Full Version : State vs. Jason Lynn Young 2-22-2012


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whic
02-22-2012, 11:40 AM
It's smart not to talk if you don't have a lawyer to make sure your rights are fully protected. But to never talk...to not even listen? To never inquire? I don't consider that smart so much as... strange.

However, if someone has murdered their wife and is doing everything they can to not get arrested, it's the perfect strategy, isn't it?


Whats strange is he never looked for her murder, but not talking is smart.

gracielee
02-22-2012, 11:42 AM
Whats strange is he never looked for her murder, but not talking is smart.

At least O.J. proclaimed 'he was going to find the real killer.' :what: And proceeded to do so across every golf course in the U.S. :woohoo:

Boodles
02-22-2012, 11:42 AM
These *friends*, supposedly friends of michelle also, thought he did it. 'Ryan Schaad's first words, god I hope jason didn't do it'.

Then why is Shelly the only one testifying in this trial? I don't understand this. Are the others in hiding or something? What's Ryan Schaad's story? That's what I want to hear.

dmaxphil
02-22-2012, 11:42 AM
dmaxphil,

"Told him not to talk until he had an attorney"

Key word being "until".

So why didn't he talk to LE with his attorney?

I'm not defending JY. But yes, he was told by friends not to talk until he had an attorney. Then he got an attorney. I assume he received some new, more official instructions at that point and stopped relying on his friend's advise.

Like I said earlier. They're are ways to protect your rights, have an attorney present and ask LE those important questions showing that care about the murder of your wife and unborn child. They fact that he did not does not look good for him, period.

Grammy Jean
02-22-2012, 11:43 AM
So is Jason watching his previous testimony like he's in a trance ala Casey? Just fascinated to see himself on screen?

A reporter on IS that was in the courtroom just reported that JY had his head down and appeared not to be engaged in the video. The jury, however he said were very attentive and taking a lot of notes.

Boodles
02-22-2012, 11:45 AM
At least O.J. proclaimed 'he was going to find the real killer.' :what: And proceeded to do so across every golf course in the U.S. :woohoo:

Good point. JY is even more arrogant than OJ by not even pretending that the "real killer is at large." Such audacity...And if he "wins" by using this strategy, then some kind of reform is needed. I'm not smart enough to know what kind, whether jury instructions, rules of evidence, or whatever, but something's really wrong when known killers walk.

trigger
02-22-2012, 11:45 AM
You know, there was just an episode on one of those non-fiction crime shows about an art student who was stabbed to death in her apartment. The evidence pointed overwhelmingly to her boyfriend, including the presence of some sort of bloodied item (I forget the details) in his bathroom. During questioning, he requested an attorney when it became obvious that the detectives suspected him. HOWEVER, he later came back with his attorney and the two of them assisted the detectives in investigating his roommate, who turned out to be the real killer. That's how it's done if you're innocent and have an attorney! You don't just clam up 100%.


OT Yup I saw that show. He murdered his roomates gf because he was jealous of their relationship.

But you are right, that is how it should be done.

Kimmer
02-22-2012, 11:45 AM
Not only did he not help look for the murdere of is wife, but the person who killed his son, and the person who left his daughter in that horrendous scene to walk around in blood and as I can only imagine tried to wake up her mommy..So you are not going to help the police try and find the person who did all of that to your family, well if you see the murderer everyday when you look in the mirror is the only answer I can come up with.

gracielee
02-22-2012, 11:48 AM
Then why is Shelly the only one testifying in this trial? I don't understand this. Are the others in hiding or something? What's Ryan Schaad's story? That's what I want to hear.

Shelly said something about *herself* having no more contact with JLY. But it appeared that perhaps her husband *still* was in his corner, regardless. I wonder what effect that has on a marriage? When one spouse is sure jason is a murderer, but her husband, jason's best friend, continues to support him. I couldn't live with a man who supported a murderer. It would be something we'd fight about all the time. "You know he did it, you know he killed his wife, yet that's *okay* with you?

No wonder poor michelle never felt like a part of the group. :( Even after her murder, the killer was more important to them then she was. :maddening:

Grammy Jean
02-22-2012, 11:48 AM
At least O.J. proclaimed 'he was going to find the real killer.' :what: And proceeded to do so across every golf course in the U.S. :woohoo:

Gracielee, you have given me quite a few good laughs during the past days. I thank you:)

PoppyMcTwist
02-22-2012, 11:49 AM
These *friends*, supposedly friends of michelle also, thought he did it. 'Ryan Schaad's first words, god I hope jason didn't do it'.


I thought the friends advised JY to get an attorney because after speaking with LE themselves, they got the distinct impression LE was focusing on JY as a possible suspect.

But yes, Ryan Schaad hoped jason didn't do it.

IMO

octobermoon
02-22-2012, 11:51 AM
Back on, getting the jury

Skittles
02-22-2012, 11:51 AM
What were they saying? What new piece of evidence?

Grammy Jean
02-22-2012, 11:52 AM
I thought the friends advised JY to get an attorney because after speaking with LE themselves, they got the distinct impression LE was focusing on JY as a possible suspect.

But yes, Ryan Schaad hoped jason didn't do it.

IMO Any ideas why Ryan Schadd was never called to testify?

Skittles
02-22-2012, 11:54 AM
Something about Klinkosum is off somewhere reviewing a new piece of evidence?

Leilei
02-22-2012, 11:54 AM
Have been watching/listening this morning, and this is what really stands out to me. When the prosecutor was trying to hammer the whole "were you working on your marriage when..." thing home, he kept repeating "that was detrimental to the marriage". No "I'm sorry I did those things". No "I was wrong". No remorse at all.

If I were cheating on my spouse, and they died (no matter how), I would be wracked with guilt for the rest of my days. And I sure as heck wouldn't use the rather cold, impersonal phrase "detrimental to the marriage". This guy is just ice-cold. JMO. Also, I don't remember him referring the their marriage as "ours", only "the", but I may have missed it.

Turnadot
02-22-2012, 11:54 AM
A reporter on IS that was in the courtroom just reported that JY had his head down and appeared not to be engaged in the video. The jury, however he said were very attentive and taking a lot of notes.
They could have well been writing: prosecution brings the lulz. I <3 my new hair cut. Tee Hee.

Sorry, I'm jaded after the Anthony trial.

gracielee
02-22-2012, 11:55 AM
Any ideas why Ryan Schadd was never called to testify?

"Birds of a feather?" Perhaps through his questioning, the prosecution discovered he was going to be as big a liar as the defendant? MOO

otto
02-22-2012, 11:57 AM
Spivey seems confident that he has Jason in a "gotcha" moment because the type of gift that Jason viewed on ebay, for which he sought opinions from Michelle's friend, was the exact gift that he intended to purchase. Have we heard that? I understood, even from the friend that testified, that opinions were still be sought regarding the type of gift he would purchase.

Turnadot
02-22-2012, 11:57 AM
Have been watching/listening this morning, and this is what really stands out to me. When the prosecutor was trying to hammer the whole "were you working on your marriage when..." thing home, he kept repeating "that was detrimental to the marriage". No "I'm sorry I did those things". No "I was wrong". No remorse at all.

If I were cheating on my spouse, and they died (no matter how), I would be wracked with guilt for the rest of my days. And I sure as heck wouldn't use the rather cold, impersonal phrase "detrimental to the marriage". This guy is just ice-cold. JMO. Also, I don't remember him referring the their marriage as "ours", only "the", but I may have missed it.
Yes, yes, yes!! This is exactly what I meant when I referred to his testimony as too slick and polished. Fake. Made me sick.

I hope this jury agrees.

IMO

heidisams
02-22-2012, 11:57 AM
OT
You know, since jy keeps declaring his love for Michelle, even though he had multiple affairs, I'm a little surprised they didn't go with sexual addiction as a defense. Defense attorneys love to pawn off their clients bad behaviours with some sort of illness, addiction, childhood trauma, etc... Just wondering????

Skittles
02-22-2012, 11:58 AM
Why does the feed come back in the middle of the important conferences? We miss stuff!

octobermoon
02-22-2012, 11:58 AM
I wish the pros case "flowed" more. IYKWIM

otto
02-22-2012, 11:59 AM
Something about Klinkosum is off somewhere reviewing a new piece of evidence?

Is that the latest tactic from this prosecutor's office ... last minute new evidence? That happened in the Cooper trial too.

Boodles
02-22-2012, 11:59 AM
who's diana gerardi?

luckyme
02-22-2012, 12:00 PM
who's diana gerardi?

Isnt that the lady he was supposed to meet at hospital?

fran
02-22-2012, 12:00 PM
OH, they're showing he LIED when he said he was talking to an ex fellow employee during the anniversary dinner. He made a FLURRY of calls and texts.

:mad:
JMHO
fran

ETA, LOTS of MM! :eek:

Tipstaff
02-22-2012, 12:01 PM
OT
You know, since jy keeps declaring his love for Michelle, even though he had multiple affairs, I'm a little surprised they didn't go with sexual addiction as a defense. Defense attorneys love to pawn off their clients bad behaviours with some sort of illness, addiction, childhood trauma, etc... Just wondering????

Oh my think of the corroborating witnesses that be marched to the stand. A parade of women since he was in his teens for sure.:maddening:

fifteen89
02-22-2012, 12:01 PM
A reporter on IS that was in the courtroom just reported that JY had his head down and appeared not to be engaged in the video. The jury, however he said were very attentive and taking a lot of notes.

Those notes will be very helpful if he takes the stand again. :shakes head:

luckyme
02-22-2012, 12:01 PM
Yes! here it comes. He lied about phone calls!

Grammy Jean
02-22-2012, 12:01 PM
Spivey seems confident that he has Jason in a "gotcha" moment because the type of gift that Jason viewed on ebay, for which he sought opinions from Michelle's friend, was the exact gift that he intended to purchase. Have we heard that? I understood, even from the friend that testified, that opinions were still be sought regarding the type of gift he would purchase.

What friend??? Don't you mean MF, MY's sister???

Wolfpack
02-22-2012, 12:01 PM
OH, they're showing he LIED when he said he was talking to an ex fellow employee during the anniversary dinner. He made a FLURRY of calls and texts.

:mad:
JMHO
fran

What's the significance in relation to the murder? I'm not able to watch, so I'm not sure I understand what you're saying.

fran
02-22-2012, 12:03 PM
Yes! here it comes. He lied about phone calls!

Yeah! Right! He was working on his marriage? :liar:

just sayin'
fran

gracielee
02-22-2012, 12:04 PM
OH, they're showing he LIED when he said he was talking to an ex fellow employee during the anniversary dinner. He made a FLURRY of calls and texts.

:mad:
JMHO
fran

ETA, LOTS of MM! :eek:

What a lovely, romantic, attentive anniversary dinner michelle had. :(

fran
02-22-2012, 12:04 PM
What's the significance in relation to the murder? I'm not able to watch, so I'm not sure I understand what you're saying.

JY was on the phone all the way to the anniversary dinner and much of the anniversary dinner. He said he was talking to a former or ex employer.

This shows how he lied on the stand. Flat out lie.

JMHO
fran

Skittles
02-22-2012, 12:04 PM
OH, they're showing he LIED when he said he was talking to an ex fellow employee during the anniversary dinner. He made a FLURRY of calls and texts.

:mad:
JMHO
fran

ETA, LOTS of MM! :eek:

What a guy!

dmaxphil
02-22-2012, 12:05 PM
I hope they have more than this.

luckyme
02-22-2012, 12:05 PM
Yeah! Right! He was working on his marriage? :liar:

just sayin'
fran

Didnt he tell michelle he was on phone for business while along he was talking to money??

octobermoon
02-22-2012, 12:06 PM
JY was on the phone all the way to the anniversary dinner and much of the anniversary dinner. He said he was talking to a former or ex employer.

This shows how he lied on the stand. Flat out lie.

JMHO
fran

Yep, with that much back and forth with MM, no way could he have forgotten.

luckyme
02-22-2012, 12:06 PM
I hope they have more than this.

Dont worry! :please:

Turnadot
02-22-2012, 12:07 PM
*mock juror*

He lied on the stand about phone calls. He's an unfaithful, lying scumbag who continued to lie about his affairs, even on the stand.

And? I expected nothing less.

I hope the PT expose more than this.

IMO

gracielee
02-22-2012, 12:07 PM
He was frantically working with michelle money 'on his marriage'?? She was giving him *pointers*?

Boodles
02-22-2012, 12:08 PM
What's the significance in relation to the murder? I'm not able to watch, so I'm not sure I understand what you're saying.

Yeah, I get it, too, about his lying...but don't see a murder connection.

gritguy
02-22-2012, 12:08 PM
JY was on the phone all the way to the anniversary dinner and much of the anniversary dinner. He said he was talking to a former or ex employer.

This shows how he lied on the stand. Flat out lie.

JMHO
fran

It's so hard to believe when he's told reasonable stories like propping his hotel room door open to avoid bugging other people by closing it and leaving it that way so he can smoke downstairs. :floorlaugh:

I'm in shock right now. :what: JY lie to the jury? :what: I mean, yeah he was willing to lie to everyone else in his life to satisfy whatever whim of the moment had seized his impulses, but the jury? It's like he's trying to keep the truth from coming out! :waitasec:

fran
02-22-2012, 12:08 PM
I don't know now, the exact wording, but one time I looked the situation up.

IF one side of the def or pros can show that a witness lied on the stand, then the jury is instructed that they can then THROW OUT all of the testimony of that witness, forgetaboutit, or whatever, because he's been proven a liar so anything he says to point towards his innocents, cannot be relied on as being truthful statements.

In other words, once a liar, always a liar, imho.

I'm innocent I tell ya'! Innocent, NOT!

JMHO
fran

NCEast
02-22-2012, 12:09 PM
They are still doing this in a manner that gives me NO sense of security. Can the jury follow? Neither HC or Sp. appear to have a command of this part of the testimony. Gosh, they just drive me crazy. I am still a type A personality, thought I would have outgrown it by now. Impatient, I want to get to the good stuff.... and the prosecution better bring it this time.

Prancy
02-22-2012, 12:09 PM
I hope they have more than this.

I agree. He may be the worst husband in the world, but if he wasn't in the house when his wife was killed, I'm not sure how much it will help.

Also, if being married with a child really didn't hamper JY from doing exactly as he pleased, then what's the point of getting rid of your wife? It's a big risk when you already do anything you want anyway. Yes, the insurance money is speculated at, but that isn't really proven either. Was it? I know they don't have to prove motive, but they seem to be trying to.

luckyme
02-22-2012, 12:09 PM
Michelles mom testified that michelle was upset about that. He was on business call from the time he picked her up and until the time dinner arrived at table. Right?

Wolfpack
02-22-2012, 12:10 PM
I don't know now, the exact wording, but one time I looked the situation up.

IF one side of the def or pros can show that a witness lied on the stand, then the jury is instructed that they can then THROW OUT all of the testimony of that witness, forgetaboutit, or whatever, because he's been proven a liar so anything he says to point towards his innocents, cannot be relied on as being truthful statements.

In other words, once a liar, always a liar, imho.

I'm innocent I tell ya'! Innocent, NOT!

JMHO
fran

It goes to weighing the credibility of the witness. If the jurors find that he is not credible as a witness, they don't have to believe anything he's said. They can rely on it if they choose, but they do not have to.

gritguy
02-22-2012, 12:10 PM
Yeah, I get it, too, about his lying...but don't see a murder connection.

I'm not watching it but I suppose the idea is to demonstrate he is fulling willing to lie to the jury and is doing so. Why would he do that? How can you give any credence to his stories on the hotel, clothes, and charity shoes?

:twocents:

tarheellvr
02-22-2012, 12:10 PM
Come on now....get his sorry azz....please God let this be his downfall!!!

Boodles
02-22-2012, 12:11 PM
I don't know now, the exact wording, but one time I looked the situation up.

IF one side of the def or pros can show that a witness lied on the stand, then the jury is instructed that they can then THROW OUT all of the testimony of that witness, forgetaboutit, or whatever, because he's been proven a liar so anything he says to point towards his innocents, cannot be relied on as being truthful statements.

In other words, once a liar, always a liar, imho.

I'm innocent I tell ya'! Innocent, NOT!

JMHO
fran

JY's pants are on fire.

Turnadot
02-22-2012, 12:12 PM
I don't know now, the exact wording, but one time I looked the situation up.

IF one side of the def or pros can show that a witness lied on the stand, then the jury is instructed that they can then THROW OUT all of the testimony of that witness, forgetaboutit, or whatever, because he's been proven a liar so anything he says to point towards his innocents, cannot be relied on as being truthful statements.

In other words, once a liar, always a liar, imho.

I'm innocent I tell ya'! Innocent, NOT!

JMHO
fran
BBM

While this is true, they can, as a mock juror, I need more than the PT exposing his lies - I know he's a POS liar; Ive seen prior testimony from the mistress and ex-gf. My opinion of JY is quite low already, and I would disregard anything he has to say.

So for me, this is a waste of my time.

That said, juries these days may need to be spoon fed, IMO. This is probably a good move on the PT's part.

Cammy
02-22-2012, 12:13 PM
:seeya: everyone!
Spivey on the stand still, huh?
How's it going?

Being asked about going out to his car to get his charger....
and now the cigar.......watching some football and wanting to pick up a USA paper.

dmaxphil
02-22-2012, 12:13 PM
Will be interesting to see how they prove that lies are indeed lies.

gritguy
02-22-2012, 12:13 PM
This joker couldn't stand to even be at his anniversary dinner with his wife without disregarding her for a mistress. Yet he expects people to believe he was worried about her not being surprised about a purse he might by?

Good grief, he should have gotten out of pharma sales and gone into selling bridges.

luckyme
02-22-2012, 12:14 PM
uh oh! They r prepared this time!

Prancy
02-22-2012, 12:14 PM
Does anyone know how many more witnesses the state has to call?

Just the Fax
02-22-2012, 12:14 PM
Glad they are using the transcript vs video clips for impeachment

gritguy
02-22-2012, 12:15 PM
BBM

While this is true, they can, as a mock juror, I need more than the PT exposing his lies - I know he's a POS liar; Ive seen prior testimony from the mistress and ex-gf. My opinion of JY is quite low already, and I would disregard anything he has to say.

So for me, this is a waste of my time.

That said, juries these days may need to be spoon fed, IMO. This is probably a good move on the PT's part.

Incredibly, some don't think he's a serial liar, and buy his stories with no salt required.

I get not believing the state's evidence, but rebutting any sort of evidence at all with a statement by JY is simply amazing to me. :what:

luckyme
02-22-2012, 12:16 PM
I want to see jasons face!!!!

gritguy
02-22-2012, 12:19 PM
I want to see jasons face!!!!

me too, peering out from behind bars.

Cammy
02-22-2012, 12:19 PM
What, if any, discrepancies have they shown?

NCEast
02-22-2012, 12:19 PM
I want to see jasons face!!!!

I don't--until they pronounce a 'guilty' verdict.

fran
02-22-2012, 12:20 PM
Here's an example of how a video, in this case previous testimony, can be used against you.

In the Scott Peterson case, about a month into the case when the affair he was having came out. SP made the rounds of media outlets. The investigating detectives were in a squad room or whatever when they saw SP on Diane Sawyer and he said, "I told LE of the affair."

The investigators all :eek: and slapped their desks and were astonished at his public statement. It was a flat out lie! He did NOT tell them, Amber came forward, unbeknown to the suspect.

Now the jury is seeing up close and up front, how JY manipulates and lies, on the stand no less!

JMHO
fran

fredwomble
02-22-2012, 12:20 PM
Glad they are using the transcript vs video clips for impeachment

I was going to post just the opposite. Show how easy it is for this guy to lie through his teeth, with his own video. Reading takes a lot out of it in my opinion. This is not especially compelling yet. Again, you show the clip and then ask the question of the sergeant. They do not seem wholly organized right now and that irritates me to no end.

Turnadot
02-22-2012, 12:20 PM
Incredibly, some don't think he's a serial liar, and buy his stories with no salt required.

I get not believing the state's evidence, but rebutting any sort of evidence at all with a statement by JY is simply amazing to me. :what:
Oh I hear you. If those not even in the jury box don't believe he's a liar, I can bet there's jurors in the box who might believe that, too.

While I believe he's a liar, after the Anthony verdict, if I were a prosecutor, I would hand-hold the jury the entire step of the way.

Grammy Jean
02-22-2012, 12:21 PM
:seeya: everyone!
Spivey on the stand still, huh?
How's it going?

Being asked about going out to his car to get his charger....
and now the cigar.......watching some football and wanting to pick up a USA paper.

We have a lie now proven as to JY's testimony about who JY talked to on phone the night of his anniversary dinner with MY. He said he was talking to co worker but cell phone records show lots of conversation with MM during that dinner.

Pocono Sleuther
02-22-2012, 12:22 PM
Is this new? I don't remember this still and questioning from the first trial.

Turnadot
02-22-2012, 12:22 PM
What, if any, discrepancies have they shown?
During his anniversary dinner with MY, he was talking to his mistress, not a co-worker as he claimed.

Just the Fax
02-22-2012, 12:22 PM
http://wwwcache.wral.com/asset/specialreports/michelleyoung/2011/06/14/9727010/187267-Image40e-640x480.jpg

http://wwwcache.wral.com/asset/specialreports/michelleyoung/2011/06/14/9726962/187259-Image41-640x480.jpg

What was in his hand besides the water bottle at the front desk?

Pocono Sleuther
02-22-2012, 12:23 PM
I feel MUCH more confident in the prosecutions case presentation this trial. They really seem to be nailing the most important pieces of evidence hard.

fifteen89
02-22-2012, 12:24 PM
Is it just me or do neither of these Prosecutors have anything in their voices that keeps you awake? No inflection, no sparkle, no passion.....they come across as very dull. And very hard to listen to for any length of time. jmt


ETA: poor jurors

Turnadot
02-22-2012, 12:24 PM
Well, showing Casey Anthony was a serial liar and POS didn't phase the jury in the least wrt to guilt, so I'm feeling antsy right now about this tactic.

IMO

Pocono Sleuther
02-22-2012, 12:24 PM
http://wwwcache.wral.com/asset/specialreports/michelleyoung/2011/06/14/9727010/187267-Image40e-640x480.jpg

http://wwwcache.wral.com/asset/specialreports/michelleyoung/2011/06/14/9726962/187259-Image41-640x480.jpg

What was in his hand besides the water bottle at the front desk?

Magazine? Paper?

Just the Fax
02-22-2012, 12:25 PM
Howard is having too many senior moments...short term memory failures.

twirlygurl
02-22-2012, 12:25 PM
You can hear the Pros whispering. Funny.

dgfred
02-22-2012, 12:26 PM
Sheet with hotel layout and cameras present... I still can't believe his luck/skill with the cameras both there and elsewhere.

Cammy
02-22-2012, 12:26 PM
We have a lie now proven as to JY's testimony about who JY talked to on phone the night of his anniversary dinner with MY. He said he was talking to co worker but cell phone records show lots of conversation with MM during that dinner.

Thank you, Grammy Jean...!

gritguy
02-22-2012, 12:26 PM
JTF, could it be a copy of a book he was working on?

"Men are from Mars; Women are Objects for My Personal Gratification to be Berated, Beaten, or Butchered Depending on How They Impede My Desires"

Just a working title I think.

NCEast
02-22-2012, 12:26 PM
I was going to post just the opposite. Show how easy it is for this guy to lie through his teeth, with his own video. Reading takes a lot out of it in my opinion. This is not especially compelling yet. Again, you show the clip and then ask the question of the sergeant. They do not seem wholly organized right now and that irritates me to no end.

It will never be compelling until they speed it up. I honestly do not know how they think they can hold a jury's attention.
I think I may need to walk away for a few minutes. I'm wanting to slap HC into the moment......he's too slow.

pjcitizen
02-22-2012, 12:26 PM
WTH? Just spit out the point geez! I can't take this.

Pocono Sleuther
02-22-2012, 12:27 PM
They could kick it up a notch...a bit more emotion??? Presentations good but needs a bit of the ol southern jazz.

NCEast
02-22-2012, 12:27 PM
Howard is having too many senior moments...short term memory failures.


And Howard is causing me to have an emotional collapse. Seriously.

Leilei
02-22-2012, 12:27 PM
Good grief, JY, over-explain much? Shades of Casey (as others have mentioned). He actually remembers lighting his cigar that vividly?

Boodles
02-22-2012, 12:27 PM
Thanks JY for the Cigar lighting/Boy scouts 101 lesson. However, why can't you remember your last conversation with your wife the night before she died?

Cammy
02-22-2012, 12:27 PM
During his anniversary dinner with MY, he was talking to his mistress, not a co-worker as he claimed.

Thanks Turnadot!

fifteen89
02-22-2012, 12:28 PM
Will be interesting to see how they prove that lies are indeed lies.

Yeah....how will the defense handle this on cross? Will they ask Spivey questions about Jason's lies during the video testimony? This might be entertaining!!!

Pocono Sleuther
02-22-2012, 12:28 PM
It will never be compelling until they speed it up. I honestly do not know how they think they can hold a jury's attention.
I think I may need to walk away for a few minutes. I'm wanting to slap HC into the moment......he's too slow.

Lol. I'm asking the questions FOR him. Join me in yelling at the laptop, iPad, and tv (streaming, watching on trutv, and voice rec it on iPad) won't u?? Lol.

dmaxphil
02-22-2012, 12:28 PM
Hammering home point of missing clothes. Good so far.

Just the Fax
02-22-2012, 12:28 PM
Suit jacket was the only outerwear found in his suitcase or SUV.....write it down jury

Boodles
02-22-2012, 12:29 PM
And Howard is causing me to have an emotional collapse. Seriously.


Hang in there, NCEast, we'll catch you when you fall! B-R-E-A-T-H-E!

Pocono Sleuther
02-22-2012, 12:29 PM
Good grief, JY, over-explain much? Shades of Casey (as others have mentioned). He actually remembers lighting his cigar that vividly?

Exaggeration of pointless details and descriptions...Lying 101. Gotta love it!!!

Madeleine74
02-22-2012, 12:30 PM
Yeah, Howard's bumbling senior moments are one of the biggest handicaps this team has. When he's in these phases (which seem to be at least 65% of the time), it is excruciating. Combine that with the "ummm...uhhh...ummm" from BH and it should be a crime.

I am literally yelling at my computer screen, "Spit it out Howard! For Gawd's sake spit it out!"

Turnadot
02-22-2012, 12:30 PM
*mock juror*

I feel like the prosecution is losing me. It's supposed to be compelling, but it's not to me at all. I'm bored.

ETA: never mind. The clothes!! Awake NOW!

Cammy
02-22-2012, 12:30 PM
Weather report.

We did this, and it was very windy.

34 degrees......and the wind speed 21 miles........gusts up to 30 miles.

Okay, they got it right.

octobermoon
02-22-2012, 12:30 PM
Thanks JY for the Cigar lighting/Boy scouts 101 lesson. However, why can't you remember your last conversation with your wife the night before she died?

Great point

otto
02-22-2012, 12:30 PM
Wind gusts??? What the point ... that people can't light a cigar in a sheltered doorway in the wind?

gracielee
02-22-2012, 12:31 PM
By this time, were I the prosecutor, I'd have made myself a complete outline, step by step, of my concerns/questions/pointing out the lies, and gone through them BING BANG BOOM. :(

dgfred
02-22-2012, 12:31 PM
Exaggeration of pointless details and descriptions...Lying 101. Gotta love it!!!

Exactly... but doesn't remember anything when asked a pertinant detail. Where have we seen that before??? Might be Murder 101 too.

Boodles
02-22-2012, 12:31 PM
Lol. I'm asking the questions FOR him. Join me in yelling at the laptop, iPad, and tv (streaming, watching on trutv, and voice rec it on iPad) won't u?? Lol.

I know, and you can just see Spivey wanting to ask the questions to himself!

Can you IMAGINE how the northerners feel watching this trial? At least those of us here are somewhat accustomed to this...

otto
02-22-2012, 12:31 PM
:seeya: everyone!
Spivey on the stand still, huh?
How's it going?

Being asked about going out to his car to get his charger....
and now the cigar.......watching some football and wanting to pick up a USA paper.

And the latest "gotcha" moment .. it was windy.

NCB
02-22-2012, 12:32 PM
Freezing temps and gusty winds--perfect cigar smoking ambiance...

Leilei
02-22-2012, 12:33 PM
Exaggeration of pointless details and descriptions...Lying 101. Gotta love it!!!

And that may just be how they get him. I hope.

Boodles
02-22-2012, 12:34 PM
Don't they know we can hear them whisper?

Grammy Jean
02-22-2012, 12:34 PM
Something about Klinkosum is off somewhere reviewing a new piece of evidence?

Anyone care to speculate as to what new evidence Klink had to review during break?

otto
02-22-2012, 12:34 PM
So ... there was a tropical storm (30 mph winds) that night and the wind was in Jason's face ... what is that about? Jason isn't a statue ... he could put his back to the wind ... presumably.

dmaxphil
02-22-2012, 12:34 PM
OMG. He touches on the missing clothes for 2 sec and then spends next 10 mins on the wind and weather.

Just the Fax
02-22-2012, 12:34 PM
20 MPH wind at 30 degrees.....was smoking a cigar believable?

seattlechiquita
02-22-2012, 12:35 PM
Dear God... the voices of the Pros are the most boring and non-engaging thing ever. Gag me with a spoon.

otto
02-22-2012, 12:35 PM
What would happen if someone on the jury burst out laughing?

Turnadot
02-22-2012, 12:35 PM
Freezing temps and gusty winds--perfect cigar smoking ambiance...
Not perfect, but I can see someone actually doing it.

That said, I think the deeper issue is that he can remember the cigar so vividly, but a conversation with his wife has already slipped his mind.

IMO

Just the Fax
02-22-2012, 12:36 PM
He lied about being at breakfast...could not avoid the camera in the west hall.

Pocono Sleuther
02-22-2012, 12:36 PM
I know, and you can just see Spivey wanting to ask the questions to himself!

Can you IMAGINE how the northerners feel watching this trial? At least those of us here are somewhat accustomed to this...

Between my divorce, this trial, and life in general, I have very little patience as it is...Howard is pushing his luck right now! Lol. Poor Spivey. He just wants to make the points and move on. Too many pauses and too much pointless verbage loses the jury. You need to focus it in for them with a few questions and then go on to the next point.

otto
02-22-2012, 12:36 PM
20 MPH wind at 30 degrees.....was smoking a cigar believable?

One does wonder how anyone that fought in WW1 or WW2 managed to be a smoker at the end of the war ... I find this line of reasoning absolutely bizarre and speculative.

seattlechiquita
02-22-2012, 12:37 PM
What would happen if someone on the jury burst out laughing?

omg that would help ME wake up! :woohoo:

Turnadot
02-22-2012, 12:37 PM
20 MPH wind at 30 degrees.....was smoking a cigar believable?
Yes, to me, because my husband and brother-in-law have done this in such conditions near the balcony alcove after family dinners.

Grammy Jean
02-22-2012, 12:37 PM
Ok I found it interesting just now to listen to Q & A about HI breakfast. When asked where did you have breakfast. JY answers they have a continental breakfast in the lobby. In a way he did not really say he ate there. Just something that stuck out just now.

dmaxphil
02-22-2012, 12:37 PM
I've lit cigars and cigarettes in worse. Jumping from subject to subject and making no points is what is most frustrating right now.

Pocono Sleuther
02-22-2012, 12:37 PM
20 MPH wind at 30 degrees.....was smoking a cigar believable?

I've seen men try to smoke a cigar in worse conditions. Just hard to believe a man alone in a warm hotel room chooses to head outside to smoke a cigar. It's not as if he was a regular smoker. Kwim.

Cammy
02-22-2012, 12:37 PM
Wind gusts??? What the point ... that people can't light a cigar in a sheltered doorway in the wind?

d....e......s.......p.......e..........r........a. ......t.........e

comes to mind.

This is just nitpicking.......we could do this to anyone who testified and find little things like this.

dgfred
02-22-2012, 12:37 PM
The only problems I have at this point with the State's case:

The trip back and forth... and the gas purchases. It is confusing. I would have been terrified of getting in an accident, vehicle breakdown, being seen, etc. Lucky???

The camera manipulations. How did he do it without getting on video at any point? How did he pick out gas stations with no/non-working cameras? Lucky @%$&*%# IMO.

Can't really think of anything else that worries me... besides the jurors.

Madeleine74
02-22-2012, 12:38 PM
I'm a yankee and even though I haven't lived there for a very long time... HC's pace drives me freakin' crazeeeee. During the Cooper trial I had to skip him sometimes, it was that irritating.

otto
02-22-2012, 12:38 PM
He lied about being at breakfast...could not avoid the camera in the west hall.

Let's see the breakfast camera footage ... it's pretty much obvious to me that anything further than 10 feet from the camera is somewhat out of focus ... "no detail and depth" ... exactly.

cityslick
02-22-2012, 12:38 PM
I would hope he brought up the weather based on lack of outerwear packed and not the cigar, but IMO that's a weak argument.

fredwomble
02-22-2012, 12:39 PM
20 MPH wind at 30 degrees.....was smoking a cigar believable?

Maybe not, but way too much time on what is really not going to impeach Jason's testimony. He himself testified it was windy. "I turned my back to the wind, lit my cigar inside the doorway and puffed...it wasn't windy the whole time and when I lit my stogie, it wasn't too bad....Cold? Well, I'm from the mountains so 30 degrees isn't that bad to me." Unbelievable? Maybe. Easy enough to dismiss as really relevant? Yes.

Edit to add...the quote I offered obviously is not prior testimony. It is what he could say and sell and people might buy it.

Turnadot
02-22-2012, 12:39 PM
I've seen men try to smoke a cigar in worse conditions. Just hard to believe a man alone in a warm hotel room chooses to head outside to smoke a cigar. It's not as if he was a regular smoker. Kwim.
Even though it's believable to me that a person would, I doubt the cigar story from JY.

Just the Fax
02-22-2012, 12:39 PM
Yes, to me, because my husband and brother-in-law have done this in such conditions near the balcony alcove after family dinners.

The point is Jay did not smoke cigars.

otto
02-22-2012, 12:40 PM
d....e......s.......p.......e..........r........a. ......t.........e

comes to mind.

This is just nitpicking.......we could do this to anyone who testified and find little things like this.

This isn't any better than the cross of Jason.

Boodles
02-22-2012, 12:40 PM
Suit jacket was the only outerwear found in his suitcase or SUV.....write it down jury

What's your point? Is there a piece of outerwear missing? Sorry I can't go this slow and retain...

And...so what's their point about breakfast??

Cammy
02-22-2012, 12:40 PM
What would happen if someone on the jury burst out laughing?

This is awful..

They have had since last June to go over his testimony.....

otto
02-22-2012, 12:40 PM
Now about the photo from the birthday ... with the stripe.

Pocono Sleuther
02-22-2012, 12:40 PM
I'm a yankee and even though I haven't lived there for a very long time... HC's pace drives me freakin' crazeeeee.

Idc WHERE a person is from, if you are sitting on a jury and the pace becomes slow and seems pointlessly drawn out...you zone. It's human nature. ESP at this time of day...nearing lunch after a full morning. Hit it and move ON!

Leilei
02-22-2012, 12:42 PM
Not perfect, but I can see someone actually doing it.

That said, I think the deeper issue is that he can remember the cigar so vividly, but a conversation with his wife has already slipped his mind.

IMO

Are there any pictures of him after the cigar-smoking/paper reading? If it were that windy, I would imagine that his hair would be pretty disheveled and the newspaper would not be all neat and folded up. How long was he supposed to have been out there?

My mind is wandering... trying to find that "gotcha" moment lol.

Turnadot
02-22-2012, 12:42 PM
The point is Jay did not smoke cigars.
Which is why I don't find JY's cigar story believable.

Actually, I find it half true. I think he smoked one after beating his wife and unborn child to death.

sureLocke
02-22-2012, 12:42 PM
What lies???

Just the Fax
02-22-2012, 12:42 PM
http://wwwcache.wral.com/asset/specialreports/michelleyoung/2011/06/21/9760489/188437-young06-600x450.jpg

http://wwwcache.wral.com/asset/specialreports/michelleyoung/2011/06/14/9726962/187259-Image41-640x480.jpg

Pocono Sleuther
02-22-2012, 12:42 PM
The point is Jay did not smoke cigars.

Jay HATED smoke. With a group of buddies, golfing and drinking? Maybe. Heading out to smoke in this situation? Not buying it.

Grammy Jean
02-22-2012, 12:43 PM
OMG Where is BOZ!!!! He could have made these points so effective!!!

MrsWendy
02-22-2012, 12:43 PM
I've seen men try to smoke a cigar in worse conditions. Just hard to believe a man alone in a warm hotel room chooses to head outside to smoke a cigar. It's not as if he was a regular smoker. Kwim.

I agree. If he was a regular smoker I would be more likely to believe that he went outside in those conditions. Since he was only an occasional smoker, it seems less likely that he would smoke it that night.

But most of us have seen people smoking in pretty nasty weather so it's not entirely unbelievable that he would go outside to smoke that night. I think the prosecution wasted everyone's time by suggesting that his claim of smoking a cigar was a lie. It may very well have been a lie, but the less than ideal weather is not enough proof.

fran
02-22-2012, 12:43 PM
This isn't a Perry Mason episode. We out on the internet are looking for drama. They're not entertaining us, they're trying to convict someone of murder. They're interested in facts.

They're slowly, maticulously, proving JY is a liar.

Now for the shirt!

JMHO
fran

Madeleine74
02-22-2012, 12:43 PM
Poster board with the 2 different sweaters side by side! With Spivey pointing out each difference!

Exactly what we wanted them to do.

{GoRealtors you seeing this??}

Praise the Lord!

Cammy
02-22-2012, 12:44 PM
This isn't any better than the cross of Jason.

Unless there is one big LIE, one thing that stands out that can not be explained, this is going nowhere.

Jason starting smoking cigars back when he worked at Black & Decker, he hated cigarette smoke, and even with this cigar, he is smoking it outside.

All the defense has to do is find someone who ever saw him or known him to smoke a cigar.

fran
02-22-2012, 12:44 PM
They fooled the first jury with the photo and the bday photo.

This time, they're pointing it out. No drama, just the facts.

JMHO
fran

gracielee
02-22-2012, 12:44 PM
For the life of me, I can't understand CW NOT replacing at least one of these attorney's with someone who still shows at least *some* signs of LIFE. :(

cody100
02-22-2012, 12:44 PM
I think the owl from MP case and the missing ducks from BC trial have the missing pieces. LOL

luckyme
02-22-2012, 12:44 PM
Cant they put some fire and brimstone in this case????? :innocent: Get the jurys attention for pete sakes. moo

dmaxphil
02-22-2012, 12:45 PM
Should be focusing on color here. No way the picture at front desk could be a black sweater. Instead they will focus on collar I bet.

Nevermind! Discussing color now. Compared to black tray. Boom goes the dynamite!

Cammy
02-22-2012, 12:46 PM
Now about the photo from the birthday ... with the stripe.

But even this, we knew about.

This isn't new.......this is something the state could have pointed out last time........

I bet the defense has the shirt or another explanation..:wink:

dgfred
02-22-2012, 12:46 PM
Maybe if they bought a new one.

Cammy
02-22-2012, 12:47 PM
Should be focusing on color here. No way the picture at front desk could be a black sweater. Instead they will focus on collar I bet.

Nevermind! Discussing color now. Compared to black tray. Boom goes the dynamite!

The defense never said it was the same shirt.
They showed some pics of Jason and Cassidy and in one of them he had on a lighter striped shirt.
No one has ever said they were the same shirts.

Pocono Sleuther
02-22-2012, 12:47 PM
OT side note: in this line of questioning alone, I have organized a closet. (benefit of aforementioned divorce...more closet space)

fran
02-22-2012, 12:48 PM
But even this, we knew about.

This isn't new.......this is something the state could have pointed out last time........

I bet the defense has the shirt or another explanation..:wink:

Ahh, but then they'd need to explain why it wasn't in JY's luggage.

Sorry, IMHO, jury won't buy any excuse this time!

JMHO
fran

seattlechiquita
02-22-2012, 12:48 PM
Going to get some coffee.... I need it to not fall asleep.

Cammy
02-22-2012, 12:48 PM
OT side note: in this line of questioning alone, I have organized a closet. (benefit of aforementioned divorce...more closet space)

:floorlaugh:

NCEast
02-22-2012, 12:49 PM
This isn't a Perry Mason episode. We out on the internet are looking for drama. They're not entertaining us, they're trying to convict someone of murder. They're interested in facts.

They're slowly, maticulously, proving JY is a liar.

Now for the shirt!

JMHO
fran

I know you are right Fran but I'm worried about the jury. If this is killing me, is it killing them as well? Can they even understand what dots are being connected through all of this slow and drawn out testimony and when even the tone and modulation of HC's voice never changes? I am worried--especially if this is the supposed 'good stuff'.

Turnadot
02-22-2012, 12:49 PM
This isn't a Perry Mason episode. We out on the internet are looking for drama. They're not entertaining us, they're trying to convict someone of murder. They're interested in facts.

They're slowly, maticulously, proving JY is a liar.

Now for the shirt!

JMHO
fran
BBM

With all due respect, a woman and her unborn child were beaten to death. I'm not looking for drama or entertainment; I'm looking for a compelling prosecution case.

cityslick
02-22-2012, 12:49 PM
http://wwwcache.wral.com/asset/specialreports/michelleyoung/2011/06/21/9760489/188437-young06-600x450.jpg

http://wwwcache.wral.com/asset/specialreports/michelleyoung/2011/06/14/9726962/187259-Image41-640x480.jpg

Not the same shirt, the collar is different.

otto
02-22-2012, 12:49 PM
Going to look at Jason's finances at the time that custody was signed over. Jason said that it cost $!0,000 just for the agreement and that he couldn't afford the legal battle.

Cammy
02-22-2012, 12:50 PM
Ahh, but then they'd need to explain why it wasn't in JY's luggage.

Sorry, IMHO, jury won't buy any excuse this time!

JMHO
fran

The defense did not try and sell it as the shirt he had on closer to midnite, though.

The Pros needs 2 trials to point it out it was different?

:confused:

otto
02-22-2012, 12:52 PM
Jason had a line of equity ... was that supposed to be used for personal legal costs?

nursebeeme
02-22-2012, 12:52 PM
Unless there is one big LIE, one thing that stands out that can not be explained, this is going nowhere.

Jason starting smoking cigars back when he worked at Black & Decker, he hated cigarette smoke, and even with this cigar, he is smoking it outside.

All the defense has to do is find someone who ever saw him or known him to smoke a cigar.

it is pretty big imhoo to lie on the stand about phone calls that he made/to whom he made them when both sides had the phone records in discovery, etc.


lie about one thing (esp after you admit you suck as a husband) well, I am not so sure I believe anything else he is telling me.

:twocents:

it is big lie to me... as any lie on the stand would be to me:twocents:

otto
02-22-2012, 12:53 PM
He had 12,000 available in one account.

luckyme
02-22-2012, 12:53 PM
He gave sister 6,000.00 to his sister. :waitasec:

Madeleine74
02-22-2012, 12:54 PM
Can someone run in there and please shock HC with some paddles? Heinz ketchup oozes out faster.

fran
02-22-2012, 12:54 PM
The defense did not try and sell it as the shirt he had on closer to midnite, though.

The Pros needs 2 trials to point it out it was different?

:confused:


Apparently they did need two trials.

Now they proved it, among other things.

I doubt this jury will make the same mistake the first jury did. I believe they'll convict this time.

JMHO
fran

PS....of course, I could be wrong. :( because I do believe JY murdered his wife. But then, I'm not on the jury so what I think doesn't matter. fran

Cammy
02-22-2012, 12:54 PM
This looks like the pension check, IRA for $17, 000

luckyme
02-22-2012, 12:54 PM
He taking from IRA acct. available 20,000.00 This is interesting.

octobermoon
02-22-2012, 12:54 PM
He had the money to keep custody of his daughter. No doubt about that.

twirlygurl
02-22-2012, 12:55 PM
He had the money. BUSTED!! He doesn't love Cassidy anymore than he loves his late wife.

dmaxphil
02-22-2012, 12:55 PM
The defense never said it was the same shirt.
They showed some pics of Jason and Cassidy and in one of them he had on a lighter striped shirt.
No one has ever said they were the same shirts.

Wait a sec.. Why else would the defense show this picture except to imply that it was the same shirt. May not be an outright lie, but it does show deception.

Turnadot
02-22-2012, 12:55 PM
it is pretty big imhoo to lie on the stand about phone calls that he made/to whom he made them when both sides had the phone records in discovery, etc.


lie about one thing (esp after you admit you suck as a husband) well, I am not so sure I believe anything else he is telling me.

:twocents:

it is big lie to me... as any lie on the stand would be to me:twocents:
I agree that Jason is a lying liar who tells lie after lie and can't be believed about anything. The prosecution has proven that, IMO.

But many of us know how well that worked for the PT down in Florida.

I hope this jury is smarter than that one.

IMO

otto
02-22-2012, 12:55 PM
IRA account ... money in account ... $20,000.

I guess he should have liquidated that ...

fifteen89
02-22-2012, 12:55 PM
ok, this $ part is kinda pointless because one month's worth of lawyer fees would've used the money up..... just thinking out loud.

Just the Fax
02-22-2012, 12:55 PM
Jason had a line of equity ... was that supposed to be used for personal legal costs?

I guess keeping his daughter or not is "personal" :waitasec:

Shelby1
02-22-2012, 12:55 PM
Love it.

I guess little Mr. Jason DID have the money to fight for CY if he had wanted to.

fran
02-22-2012, 12:55 PM
I know you are right Fran but I'm worried about the jury. If this is killing me, is it killing them as well? Can they even understand what dots are being connected through all of this slow and drawn out testimony and when even the tone and modulation of HC's voice never changes? I am worried--especially if this is the supposed 'good stuff'.

I attended the Samantha Runnion murder trial. I too was at first taken aback by how undramatic the pros and def lawyers appeared. But the jury isn't there for drama and they're soaking up every word. They look on it differently than we do, in the comfort of our own home or whatever. They watching every move, very closely.

JMHO
fran

Grammy Jean
02-22-2012, 12:56 PM
JY testified he did not have money to fight the custody battle.Good job of showing JY did have such money for custody.

otto
02-22-2012, 12:56 PM
401K for Jason ... $32000 transferred into that account.
Balance when closed $24000

Cammy
02-22-2012, 12:56 PM
Apparently they did need two trials.

Now they proved it, among other things.

I doubt this jury will make the same mistake the first jury did. I believe they'll convict this time.

JMHO
fran

PS....of course, I could be wrong. :( because I do believe JY murdered his wife. But then, I'm not on the jury so what I think doesn't matter. fran

These are little things, though.
We know the anniversary dinner did not go well.
LF testified that MY came home upset, and then went back out to look for Jason.....

otto
02-22-2012, 12:57 PM
ok, this $ part is kinda pointless because one month's worth of lawyer fees would've used the money up..... just thinking out loud.

I agree ... legal fees eat up all the money available, no matter how much there is to start.

luckyme
02-22-2012, 12:57 PM
oh crap he had liquid assets. He could of easily got his daughter. 60,000.00:seeya:

gracielee
02-22-2012, 12:57 PM
JLY draining the line of equity on a monthly basis, sounds like. Chaz Schwabb account for JLY $20,000.00. Poor JLY 'couldn't afford' a custody fight. 401K JLY, $24,173.89. Man, he's a pauper. How come he's not paying off the wrongful death suit? Money available to JLY, $60,000.00.

NCEast
02-22-2012, 12:57 PM
He had the money to keep custody of his daughter. No doubt about that.

I'm praying the jury caught that too.

fran
02-22-2012, 12:58 PM
Now they're showing the JY's excuse for not fighting for custody of his daughter, was NOT because of lack of money as he claimed.

This is all going to be tied up into a little finely distinct package in closing. The picture will be there.

This was murder, preplanned, just a vicious murder of a mother and unborn child. :(

JMHO
fran

Madeleine74
02-22-2012, 12:58 PM
JY had close to $60K CASH in an account. Yet he could not afford to answer a legal filing.

octobermoon
02-22-2012, 12:58 PM
To me that proves he was more worried about the depot, than Cassidy. IMO

Turnadot
02-22-2012, 12:58 PM
These are little things, though.
We know the anniversary dinner did not go well.
LF testified that MY came home upset, and then went back out to look for Jason.....
*mock juror hat*

Well, IMO, it's not a little thing that he had the money to fight for his daughter, but instead gave her away like a puppy he was tired of.

his concern was about saving his own azz!

JMHO

Cammy
02-22-2012, 12:58 PM
401K for Jason ... $32000 transferred into that account.
Balance when closed $24000


Well, no one ever said they were having financial difficulties.....and that has always been a possible motive.

Maybe by this time, the house had sold.......and we know the other money was his pension check.

This means crap, I am sorry.

I reserve the right to retract this if something big happens........:)

otto
02-22-2012, 12:59 PM
I don't know many people that cash in all their investments, retirement funds, etc for a custody battle ... just saying. It's never ending, so people usually put forth what is available in a savings and current earnings.

luckyme
02-22-2012, 12:59 PM
I agree ... legal fees eat up all the money available, no matter how much there is to start.

If he really wanted his daughter he could have gotten her. Doesnt he have a public defender. He must of known he was going to jail. moo

gracielee
02-22-2012, 12:59 PM
Can someone run in there and please shock HC with some paddles? Heinz ketchup oozes out faster.

Need a cattle prod! :floorlaugh:

Madeleine74
02-22-2012, 12:59 PM
Now who was it who kept insisting JY could not possibly afford a lawyer? And that he had no choice but to give up custody?

Madeleine74
02-22-2012, 01:00 PM
He's lost everything... but his wife.

Cammy
02-22-2012, 01:01 PM
To me that proves he was more worried about the depot, than Cassidy. IMO

Jason also said that the one of the reasons he agreed to the custody agreement was because he was told an arrest was pending.

He was also told the custody agreement could be altered or changed.

However, I have to be honest, this did not go well for me when he did not fight for CY.....

Turnadot
02-22-2012, 01:01 PM
I don't know many people that cash in all their investments, retirement funds, etc for a custody battle ... just saying. It's never ending, so people usually put forth what is available in a savings and current earnings.
I would. My son is everything to me!!

luckyme
02-22-2012, 01:01 PM
Need a cattle prod! :floorlaugh:


We need a train in the background!!! :floorlaugh:

Boodles
02-22-2012, 01:01 PM
Cant they put some fire and brimstone in this case????? :innocent: Get the jurys attention for pete sakes. moo

I feel like spiking their lunch beverages with a double shot of Red Bull! :scream:

fran
02-22-2012, 01:01 PM
They aren't missing a beat! Pointing out how he 'lost everything' but not one word about Michelle.

Now the phone conversation about how he doesn't remember what he talked to MY about that last night, now they're going over phone records of that night.

Oh, this is good!

JMHO
fran

cityslick
02-22-2012, 01:02 PM
If he really wanted his daughter he could have gotten her. Doesnt he have a public defender. He must of known he was going to jail. moo

I understand the argument and I don't even really disagree with it, but then you are using the reverse argument as to why he didn't kill her. He didn't want her, but he wanted her enough not to kill her (a potential eyewitness)?

whic
02-22-2012, 01:02 PM
At least O.J. proclaimed 'he was going to find the real killer.' :what: And proceeded to do so across every golf course in the U.S. :woohoo:

and then write a book about it, CA probably slapped OJ's hand too. These days its not about if you did it, its about how you can prove it.

fifteen89
02-22-2012, 01:02 PM
The jury isn't in for this? IS just had across the screen the lawyers were arguing outside the presence of the jury ????

NCEast
02-22-2012, 01:02 PM
I attended the Samantha Runnion murder trial. I too was at first taken aback by how undramatic the pros and def lawyers appeared. But the jury isn't there for drama and they're soaking up every word. They look on it differently than we do, in the comfort of our own home or whatever. They watching every move, very closely.

JMHO
fran

Again, I agree with you but with one small difference. You have been trained to 'listen' to trials by way of this forum and it's easy for you to grab the inconsistencies, lies, trains of thought, etc. A typical jury doesn't have the experience to automatically note the same issues or differences in testimony, or lies. If it's not projected to them in a manner in which says 'this is important jury--pay attention' either by tone or repetition they may not grab the importance of various aspects as easily as some of us. That's what's worrying me.

pjcitizen
02-22-2012, 01:02 PM
I would. My son is everything to me!!

I don't know many parents that wouldn't!

Tipstaff
02-22-2012, 01:03 PM
JY had close to $60K CASH in an account. Yet he could not afford to answer a legal filing.

Also think this proves motive for murder and not divorce. He didn't want to split the $$$$ with MY.

ohiogirl
02-22-2012, 01:03 PM
Well, no one ever said they were having financial difficulties.....and that has always been a possible motive.

Maybe by this time, the house had sold.......and we know the other money was his pension check.

This means crap, I am sorry.

I reserve the right to retract this if something big happens........:)

I don't see this part as crap at all. It was his own testimony that he couldn't afford to contest the custody case. Obviously, he did. And, yes, if you want your child, you will spend every last dime to make that happen.
jmo and all that jazz

Grammy Jean
02-22-2012, 01:03 PM
"That is to Michelle Young" good one HC

nursebeeme
02-22-2012, 01:03 PM
These are little things, though.
We know the anniversary dinner did not go well.
LF testified that MY came home upset, and then went back out to look for Jason.....

bbm...

but now we have the lies exposed so really, considering their relationship and the establishment of a possible motive... these are no little things imhoo

Boodles
02-22-2012, 01:04 PM
JLY draining the line of equity on a monthly basis, sounds like. Chaz Schwabb account for JLY $20,000.00. Poor JLY 'couldn't afford' a custody fight. 401K JLY, $24,173.89. Man, he's a pauper. How come he's not paying off the wrongful death suit? Money available to JLY, $60,000.00.

Mama and Kimbo help him do his "laundry"...

ohiogirl
02-22-2012, 01:04 PM
lunch
see you all after

gracielee
02-22-2012, 01:05 PM
I don't know many people that cash in all their investments, retirement funds, etc for a custody battle ... just saying. It's never ending, so people usually put forth what is available in a savings and current earnings.

I know people who have gone into heavy debt 'for their children'.

fredwomble
02-22-2012, 01:05 PM
What people feel they can afford will vary greatly regardless of how much money they have in the bank or otherwise have access. Does it come across as cold and not quite believable? Yes, to me it does. But that is not a gotcha moment either that proves anything beyond a reasonable doubt to me.

Terribly disappointed in this testimony. It's slow, hard to follow and Cummings seems very uncertain of himself. Really, really poorly presented and again we risk a mistrial (I do not think a jury of 12 will ever acquit Jason Young).

Cammy
02-22-2012, 01:05 PM
I attended the Samantha Runnion murder trial. I too was at first taken aback by how undramatic the pros and def lawyers appeared. But the jury isn't there for drama and they're soaking up every word. They look on it differently than we do, in the comfort of our own home or whatever. They watching every move, very closely.

JMHO
fran


That was a heartbreaking case,such a beautiful little girl.

That guy should have never been out of jail from a prior charge.

The Judge who let him out should also feel guilty every single day.

:(

Shelby1
02-22-2012, 01:05 PM
:maddening::maddening::maddening:

I do NOT need to see Lindsay Lohan in court! Switch it back!

fran
02-22-2012, 01:05 PM
I have a feeling JY is going to have a VERY light lunch today. I would imagine he has a little indigestion after hearing this testimony this morning.

Good! About time he started sweating it! :mad:

JMHO
fran

Cammy
02-22-2012, 01:06 PM
LUNCHTIME........or breakfast for me.:biggrin:

octobermoon
02-22-2012, 01:06 PM
I think it also shows that JY cares only about himself. JMO

Madeleine74
02-22-2012, 01:07 PM
If a defendant will LIE on the stand about little things, s/he will LIE about the big things too. How many lies will he be given a pass for? At what point does his version of a story become unbelievable? After 5 lies? 10 lies? 20 lies? At what point will you wonder why he is lying at all?

Just the Fax
02-22-2012, 01:08 PM
Terribly disappointed in this testimony. It's slow, hard to follow and Cummings seems very uncertain of himself. Really, really poorly presented and again we risk a mistrial (I do not think a jury of 12 will ever acquit Jason Young).

Klink would be organized, articulate and crystal clear if he was doing this.
It's sad the state has such a weak team seeking justice for Michelle.

otto
02-22-2012, 01:08 PM
He's lost everything... but his wife.

Didn't he say he lost his family? Weren't his wife and daughter his family?

luckyme
02-22-2012, 01:08 PM
Why did he not have the heat pump fixed????? did he not care because he was never home?? He had to have some of that money when michelle was alive! moo :maddening:

fran
02-22-2012, 01:08 PM
I know people who have gone into heavy debt 'for their children'.

Me too! My poor mom refinanced her paid off home to help my little sis get her daughter back. She was taken by the noncustodial father to South America. It was very expensive, but that didn't stop them from trying. Unfortunately, she was unsuccessful. :(

fran

PS, fyi, she's now reunited with her daughter and sees her regularly. :)

dmaxphil
02-22-2012, 01:10 PM
Not sure the money proves what he could afford. I agree with someone else here that legal fees could eat through this amount pretty quickly. He also had no way to produce new income, so he may have been considering that as well.

I also don't see how it really impacts motive. Depends on if the jury thinks $24,000 - $60,000 is a lot of money.

gracielee
02-22-2012, 01:10 PM
That was a heartbreaking case,such a beautiful little girl.

That guy should have never been out of jail from a prior charge.

The Judge who let him out should also feel guilty every single day.

:(

He was found 'not guilty' in the previous case IIRC. The two little girls he molested were NOT believed at trial.

fran
02-22-2012, 01:10 PM
Why did he not have the heat pump fixed????? did he not care because he was never home?? He had to have some of that money when michelle was alive! moo :maddening:

Well, it MAY have been because he lost HIS money on his online gambling. But, he didn't loose more than he had.

While MY and CY sat at home freezing. :mad:

just sayin'
fran

Cammy
02-22-2012, 01:11 PM
I don't see this part as crap at all. It was his own testimony that he couldn't afford to contest the custody case. Obviously, he did. And, yes, if you want your child, you will spend every last dime to make that happen.
jmo and all that jazz



For years we were told, it was because MY was not going to be able to work full time, after the baby came,
and that would hurt their income greatly.

Then her boss testifies that they were agreeing on a plan Michelle worked out, where she could still work 30 hours a week,
and be reached on her days off and receive full time benefits...It was ready to be submitted to see if it would be okay.

But, its that one BIG thing that has always been missing, and it still is.
Like a MOTIVE.

Why did Jason kill Michelle?

Doesn't look like money......

Freedom?

This guy was out of town 1-2 x a month.

Michelle Money?

Were they were going to kill MM's husband, Steve. too?

He hated MY so much.

For what?

Because they argued, and he didn't like her Mom ?

So?
And?

Turnadot
02-22-2012, 01:11 PM
If a defendant will LIE on the stand about little things, s/he will LIE about the big things too. How many lies will he be given a pass for? At what point does his version of a story become unbelievable? After 5 lies? 10 lies? 20 lies? At what point will you wonder why he is lying at all?
I quite agree.

Unfortunately, it's possible the jury could not care less about the lies.

Tipstaff
02-22-2012, 01:11 PM
Didn't he say he lost his family? Weren't his wife and daughter his family?

think he said 'some family' and it didn't come across as "my wife and daughter".

otto
02-22-2012, 01:11 PM
I would. My son is everything to me!!

I understood that the Fisher's wanted visitation and that visitation was proceeding. After that, the Fisher's continued to pursue Jason ... most likely with the objective of forcing him to testify so he could be nailed for the murder. It sounds like it was going to be a never ending battle and that even if he put forth all the money he had available through an equity line or retirement fund, it would have continued until he was broke and then he would have lost custody

Wolfpack
02-22-2012, 01:12 PM
Yeah, Howard's bumbling senior moments are one of the biggest handicaps this team has. When he's in these phases (which seem to be at least 65% of the time), it is excruciating. Combine that with the "ummm...uhhh...ummm" from BH and it should be a crime.

I am literally yelling at my computer screen, "Spit it out Howard! For Gawd's sake spit it out!"

Many, many years ago, I had a family member on the jury for one of HC's capital cases. They thought he had some sort of impairment, based on his manner of speaking. Then they realized it was partly an act, and they really disliked his performance from that point on. Still thought he was a powerful attorney, and voted guilty, but found the manner of presentation distasteful.

Madeleine74
02-22-2012, 01:12 PM
There is no excuse for HC not to be better organized. It's not like this is his first rodeo. He should have had everything ready to go...he should have highlighted his own copy so he could get to it quickly.

He doesn't appear to ever learn anything. He is unable or unwilling to alter his style to better present evidence. There are simple things he could do that would help him...little tricks... but case after case he just bumbles along like a little old man out of steam who loses his place often.

cityslick
02-22-2012, 01:12 PM
I dunno, I'm wishy washy on the whole money thing. Did he lie about not having money to fight for custody? Yea, pretty much but then again it's not like he someone that puts that much importance in things (I don't think I heard him testify over and over about how he would do anything for CY). I think the jury fully understands he's a horrible human being by now.

Lori59
02-22-2012, 01:12 PM
It is very clear to me what they are doing and I guess I am in the minority about the pace at which they are doing it. I don't expect bombs and firecrackers in a murder trial. They are showing HE LIED. Not only did he lie but he lied about silly things such as smoking a cigar, where he went in the hotel etc...all of which come back to ...where were you the night your wife was murdered. Why LIE?

gritguy
02-22-2012, 01:13 PM
Holy Mother of God it is simple why he didn't fight custody.

He wanted his daughter. He had the money. He DID NOT want to testify.

Whether guilty or innocent it is blindingly obvious his motivation. The money issue was another lie. His honest statement would have been, "I did not want to break my silence." But JY rarely does honest.

heidisams
02-22-2012, 01:14 PM
I'm sitting here still brewing over the way he questioned Spivey about the breakfast.... He could've made it past that camera in the lobby in 14 seconds, it doesn't take 14 seconds to walk through a small lobby, grab a bag off of the table as you're walking through, then find your way to a seat back where the camera can't make you out... Why didn't he ask Spivey if he was seen in a hall, or on a camera, etc. as he was going to breakfast? Just to make it solid and clear....I wanted more, please tell me I missed something there, because the way I heard it, there could be some doubt.

fran
02-22-2012, 01:15 PM
He was found 'not guilty' in the previous case IIRC. The two little girls he molested were NOT believed at trial.

One, or was it both? Previous victims testified at the Runnion trial. I understand the jury from the previous trial, or at least some, apologized publicly to the girls for not believing their previous testimony. :(

With regard to this case, we need to remember or realize, CY was a complete innocent. We have to believe there's a LOT of truth as to what her statements were, especially just after her mom and brother's murder!

"Out of the mouths of babes,"

JMHO
fran

Turnadot
02-22-2012, 01:15 PM
I understood that the Fisher's wanted visitation and that visitation was proceeding. After that, the Fisher's continued to pursue Jason ... most likely with the objective of forcing him to testify so he could be nailed for the murder. It sounds like it was going to be a never ending battle and that even if he put forth all the money he had available through an equity line or retirement fund, it would have continued until he was broke and then he would have lost custody
So what's JY's thinking here? I'm going to lose anyway, so why bother fighting for her?

That's completely alien to me. I would fight for my son until the bitter end, no matter what I would fight to keep him, because he's my world!

JY did not fight for CY because he didn't want to testify; it was about saving his own skin.

IMO

cityslick
02-22-2012, 01:16 PM
It is very clear to me what they are doing and I guess I am in the minority about the pace at which they are doing it. I don't expect bombs and firecrackers in a murder trial. They are showing HE LIED. Not only did he lie but he lied about silly things such as smoking a cigar, where he went in the hotel etc...all of which come back to ...where were you the night your wife was murdered. Why LIE?

BBM

IMO though, I don't think the PT effectively proved those as lies. They of course are lies, but with the way the PT presented that testimony, it didn't fully nullify it.

dmaxphil
02-22-2012, 01:16 PM
think he said 'some family' and it didn't come across as "my wife and daughter".


"I've lost everything. I've lost family, friends, jobs. I've lost everything. "

Grammy Jean
02-22-2012, 01:16 PM
For years we were told, it was because MY was not going to be able to work full time, after the baby came,
and that would hurt their income greatly.

Then her boss testifies that they were agreeing on a plan Michelle worked out, where she could still work 30 hours a week,
and be reached on her days off and receive full time benefits...It was ready to be submitted to see if it would be okay.

But, its that one BIG thing that has always been missing, and it still is.
Like a MOTIVE.

Why did Jason kill Michelle?

Doesn't look like money......

Freedom?

This guy was out of town 1-2 x a month.

Michelle Money?

Were they were going to kill MM's husband, Steve. too?

He hated MY so much.

For what?

Because they argued, and he didn't like her Mom ?

So?
And?

Because as JY told a friend the only thing worse than being married to MY would be being divorced. MY told MF she was done, had probably told JY that when he threw the remote at her.

Lori59
02-22-2012, 01:16 PM
And the "money" evidence....come on, people that have NO money fight for their kids. A man that just lost a wife and unborn son should want to hold on and fight for all that was left of his family! It is beyond common sense he let that beautiful child go..and the fact that he had so much money YET lied that he didn't have money to fight for custody...doesn't add up in anyway.

Just the Fax
02-22-2012, 01:17 PM
Wonder if Howard was serious when he said "sorry, I've got some short term memory loss"?

I think he was dead serious.

Cammy
02-22-2012, 01:17 PM
Didn't he say he lost his family? Weren't his wife and daughter his family?

Of course.

CeeKer
02-22-2012, 01:18 PM
I've been sitting in the corner here reading/watching this trial and I've gone back and watched most of the original trial videos. My gut tells me he did it, but there are some things that don't sit right for me. The sweater is one of them. If you're thinking ahead far enough to physically disable cameras, why would you wear a sweater you later murder your wife in, in an obvious place with cameras where you're trying to establish your alibi (i.e., the front desk)?

Another thing that doesn't square with me is the tylenol/pancor left out so obviously on the dresser. If you're a salesman of pancor, and you're thinking ahead to plan this murder, would you leave such an oozing, incriminating piece of evidence out in such an obvious place?

On the flip side, a person not taking a key card and risk being locked out of their room in the middle of the night doesn't make sense either, esp. when his computer was in the room. And the shoe evidence is pretty strong IMO. And the Ebay stuff on the computer seems pretty contrived if you ask me. But still I'd like something solid for the jury to hang their hat on.

This case is maddening at the very least. I find myself playing devil's advocate with myself on all the evidence, even though I think, in my gut, he did it.

gritguy
02-22-2012, 01:18 PM
The idea that JY didn't fight custody because the battle would never be over is complete and utter speculation and is also not factual.

What is clear is that he wanted to remain silent, and fighting custody would not have allowed for that.

The motive is clear.

Is there nothing this man did wrong?? :waitasec:

cityslick
02-22-2012, 01:21 PM
The idea that JY didn't fight custody because the battle would never be over is complete and utter speculation and is also not factual.

What is clear is that he wanted to remain silent, and fighting custody would not have allowed for that.

The motive is clear.

Is there nothing this man did wrong?? :waitasec:

Of course, but do you believe the PT effectively got that point across to the jury? For some reason I don't, maybe because the delivery.

nursebeeme
02-22-2012, 01:23 PM
But, its that one BIG thing that has always been missing, and it still is.
Like a MOTIVE.

Why did Jason kill Michelle?

Doesn't look like money......

Freedom?

This guy was out of town 1-2 x a month.

Michelle Money?

Were they were going to kill MM's husband, Steve. too?

He hated MY so much.

For what?

Because they argued, and he didn't like her Mom ?

So?
And?

rsabbm,
all the things that I bolded I can see as his motives to kill his wife seeing what I have watched so far in this trial.

as for MM I believe the motive was to have freedom to have sex with whomever he wanted whenever he wanted (much like he was currently doing) but out from under the auspices of marriage.

I further believe he wanted to be free of MY but without divorce... because he needed her money... he tried to stage the crime to not only garner sympathy for himself but also to be able to have access to the money, life insurance if there was any to be had, etc.

I am still in shock that he did not use his "money" to get custody of his daughter. Why didn't his mother put up her house at that time so he could pursue custody? Makes absolutely no common or earthly sense to me.....

but yes, I can see lots of motive developing...especially the things I bolded :twocents:

Talina
02-22-2012, 01:24 PM
I understood that the Fisher's wanted visitation and that visitation was proceeding. After that, the Fisher's continued to pursue Jason ... most likely with the objective of forcing him to testify so he could be nailed for the murder. It sounds like it was going to be a never ending battle and that even if he put forth all the money he had available through an equity line or retirement fund, it would have continued until he was broke and then he would have lost custody

From what I recall of the testimony, that is not exactly what was happening.

MF said that they wanted the visitation schedule in writing and JY refused to do that. He wanted it to just be a friendly verbal agreement. Given the past refusal and holding out, making conditions on their visits, changing his mind, etc, I can fully see why they wanted it in writing - to be a legal binding document that he couldn't just on a whim change due to his mood.

It was when they persisted on it being a written document that he all of the sudden acquiesced and sent over from his attorney a scheduled transition for CY to permanently live with MF. MF testified that came out of the blue and was not at all what they had been pushing for, but instead were just trying to get visitation down in writing.

He DID NOT have to offer over CY to permanently live with MF. All he had to do was agree to the visitation in writing. Once it got heated up and was going to be litigated when he refused to do this is when he signed his daughter over.

At least those are my recollections of the testimony during this trial.

ohiogirl
02-22-2012, 01:24 PM
"I've lost everything. I've lost family, friends, jobs. I've lost everything. "

"I've lost everything, I've lost family," He had an opportunity to fight for his daughter and did not. It is very obvious to me why he didn't.
jmo:seeya:

Wolfpack
02-22-2012, 01:25 PM
To me, it's clear that with this rehash of JY's testimony, the defense will have to put him back on the stand if they have any hope of clearing this up.