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calamityjane831
02-23-2012, 12:12 AM
:floorlaugh:

I have all the cleaning done, but I have given up trying to cook during the trial, I promised Mr. Cammy as soon as this is over, this will be my last *trial.

He has been so patient about it, but I think if he never hears Jason
Young's name again, he won't mind at all.

Luckily, he works long hours during the week, and this is better than me going to the mall , at least that's what I tell him....:wink:

* I am interested in the Michelle Parker case though , do any of you here follow that one?

Every trial is my last trial but my family knows it is not true!! I actually shop on the weekends so I don't have to go to the store during trial time or I at least have stuff to throw in for dinners. Michelle Parker I am all over it.

otto
02-23-2012, 12:14 AM
True, but some friends knew of the affair with MM. People would have talked; it would have gotten back to Michelle eventually. Also, they could have subpoenaed his phone records, and he would have been busted with MM.

The affair with MM became public because of cell phone activity, not because friends knew about the affair.

tarheel8600
02-23-2012, 12:15 AM
If there is another mistrial do you think that the State will refile?

No. Not right away like this time.

If there is a mistrial, the DA's office will wait for whatever length of time for new, compelling evidence before retrying this case.

If there are 2 mistrials, JY will find that getting on with his life will be difficult. He will still be virtually unemployable, a pariah in his own hometown, and he will always be looking over his shoulder wondering if LE has finally found the nail in his coffin. It would be a miserable life to say the least. He may find moments of joy, but he will never know true peace.

gracielee
02-23-2012, 12:15 AM
Good evening JTF,

I have zero knowledge of NC family court procedures.

Do they really award alimony based on affairs?

N.C. has had numerous, extremely high, well into the millions, alienation of affection lawsuit awards. The law is current and used.

Just the Fax
02-23-2012, 12:16 AM
Good wake up fran.
That fiasco in June just has me second guessing every move they make.
I'm sure the PT got good feedback from that jury and has tried hard to correct their many mistakes. One of the biggest issues was being rushed...thankfully, they are taking the time they need this trial. The 2 smoking guns...shoes and shirt should be crystal clear this time.

otto
02-23-2012, 12:18 AM
Which party is entering new evidence ... whatever the defense lawyer was viewing today? I missed that completely.

tarheel8600
02-23-2012, 12:18 AM
The affair with MM became public because of cell phone activity, not because friends knew about the affair.

JY had friends who knew of the affair with MM before the murder.

Some of those friends told their wives about that affair before the murder, and some of those friends told their wives about it after the murder. If there had been divorce proceedings between JY and Michelle, one of those wives would have told Michelle. It's human nature.

3doglady
02-23-2012, 12:18 AM
The affair with MM became public because of cell phone activity, not because friends knew about the affair.

MY knew that JY was having an affair.

johnfear
02-23-2012, 12:22 AM
No. Not right away like this time.

If there is a mistrial, the DA's office will wait for whatever length of time for new, compelling evidence before retrying this case.

If there are 2 mistrials, JY will find that getting on with his life will be difficult. He will still be virtually unemployable, a pariah in his own hometown, and he will always be looking over his shoulder wondering if LE has finally found the nail in his coffin. It would be a miserable life to say the least. He may find moments of joy, but he will never know true peace.

I dunno why this post made me laugh, but reading it, I had a soundtrack and the voice of dateline in my ear. If you guys haven't read the above in that voice, try it. It's dastardly to get joy from it, but it's kind of cool.

Here, I'll start ya off:

"It's a wintery day, in Brevard, North Carolina. But, every day is a wintry day for Jason Young. You seeee, he's been tried nineteen times for the murder of his wife and unborn son, and even though they haven't convicted him yet, they get a step closer every time they let him out on bond. Prosecutors in Raleigh, North Carolina are certain Mr. Young killed his young, pregnant wife, Michelle, in 2006. (Cue Dialogue from Pros in NC: Ummmm, ummmm, we decided the trial, number ummmmm, twenty, was uummmm, too much. So, we just decided. Well, HC, my fellow prosecutor had never actually committed a crime and we decided we'd do a little North Carolina Dexter meets Deliverance on Mr. Young. Cue Sound of owls in trees. Video of HC and BH in tree outside of PY's home in Brevard,NC)"

tarheel8600
02-23-2012, 12:23 AM
If they divorced and Jason had 50/50 custody and 40/60 time with his children, and the married women he committed adultery with remained silent, his child support obligations would have been minimal. We know that Nancy Cooper would have had a lot of difficulty taking the children and moving away ... and it would have been the same situation for Michelle.

Otto,
This just isn't true.
When the children started school, there is no way JY could have had 40/60 time with his children. 50/50 custody only means that both parents have say in major decisions regarding the children like health care, school, etc.

There were friends of JY who knew that he was having an affair with MM. There were friends of his who also knew that he had other brief affairs with other women. The affairs would have come out; they always do. JY would not have come through a divorce unscathed. He would have been beaten down in family court.

otto
02-23-2012, 12:29 AM
Otto,
This just isn't true.
When the children started school, there is no way JY could have had 40/60 time with his children. 50/50 custody only means that both parents have say in major decisions regarding the children like health care, school, etc.

There were friends of JY who knew that he was having an affair with MM. There were friends of his who also knew that he had other brief affairs with other women. The affairs would have come out; they always do. JY would not have come through a divorce unscathed. He would have been beaten down in family court.

Custody arrangements take many forms. Children can reside in the home while the parents cycle out on a weekly basis, children can spend alternating weeks with each parent ... it all depends on many factors ... but it's certainly not impossible for parents to equally share the task of childrearing. Child custody is about what is best for the children ... not about being punitive towards parents.

gracielee
02-23-2012, 12:29 AM
Otto,
This just isn't true.
When the children started school, there is no way JY could have had 40/60 time with his children. 50/50 custody only means that both parents have say in major decisions regarding the children like health care, school, etc.

There were friends of JY who knew that he was having an affair with MM. There were friends of his who also knew that he had other brief affairs with other women. The affairs would have come out; they always do. JY would not have come through a divorce unscathed. He would have been beaten down in family court.

So true. Michelle would have gotten herself an attorney, and that attorney would have initiated an investigation against JLY. And if I were Linda Fisher, I would have advised michelle to sue the crap out of michelle money. And as courts have proven in N.C., Michelle Young could have walked away with millions in an alienation of affection suit.

gracielee
02-23-2012, 12:31 AM
Custody arrangements take many forms. Children can reside in the home while the parents cycle out on a weekly basis, children can spend alternating weeks with each parent ... it all depends on many factors ... but it's certainly not impossible for parents to equally share the task of childrearing. Child custody is about what is best for the children ... not about being punitive towards parents.

Jason Young said 'he could just kill michelle for leaving him alone with CY when she peed on the floor and the power went out. Somehow I don't see him as a co-parent to a toddler and a newborn. :seeya:

tarheel8600
02-23-2012, 12:33 AM
Custody arrangements take many forms. Children can reside in the home while the parents cycle out on a weekly basis, children can spend alternating weeks with each parent ... it all depends on many factors ... but it's certainly not impossible for parents to equally share the task of childrearing. Child custody is about what is best for the children ... not about being punitive towards parents.

That might work if Michelle stayed in NC, but it is doubtful to me that would have happened. I think Michelle would have moved back to NY to be close to family who could help her out.
I don't see every other weekend visits from NY to NC because I don't think JY would have paid for the airline tickets to do that. jmo of course.

otto
02-23-2012, 12:33 AM
Jason Young said 'he could just kill michelle for leaving him alone with CY when she peed on the floor and the power went out. Somehow I don't see him as a co-parent to a toddler and a newborn. :seeya:

Children are only toddlers and newborns for a short time ... and custody is a fluid arrangement. In the big picture, I don't see child support as a major factor or reason for murder ... not in this case.

gracielee
02-23-2012, 12:34 AM
If there is another mistrial do you think that the State will refile?

I think it would depend upon the breakdown of the jury votes. JMO Judge Stephens knows JLY is guilty.

otto
02-23-2012, 12:38 AM
That might work if Michelle stayed in NC, but it is doubtful to me that would have happened. I think Michelle would have moved back to NY to be close to family who could help her out.
I don't see every other weekend visits from NY to NC because I don't think JY would have paid for the airline tickets to do that. jmo of course.

If one parent moving away from the other parent and taking the children was an easy task in NC, Nancy Cooper would have moved away long before she was murdered. Instead, she was stuck because the father of the children lived and worked there.

gracielee
02-23-2012, 12:40 AM
The affair with MM became public because of cell phone activity, not because friends knew about the affair.

Who cares how it became public, once Michelle hired herself an attorney, it would have been discovered.

3doglady
02-23-2012, 12:43 AM
Children are only toddlers and newborns for a short time ... and custody is a fluid arrangement. In the big picture, I don't see child support as a major factor or reason for murder ... not in this case.

One of my family members worked at PE and knew MY. I called him two days after the murder and asked about it. He said that MY told someone at work that JY had affairs. I won't post all the rumors but he also said the people at PE thought JY did it. That was TWO days later, so nothing had been made public at that time.

gracielee
02-23-2012, 12:44 AM
If one parent moving away from the other parent and taking the children was an easy task in NC, Nancy Cooper would have moved away long before she was murdered. Instead, she was stuck because the father of the children lived and worked there.

Nancy Cooper needed her children's passports. One doesn't need a passport to move to New York. :floorlaugh:

enzeder
02-23-2012, 12:47 AM
It looks to me like JY is wearing a hat/beanie at the Cracker Barrel?. Was a hat found in his luggage?.

http://i44.tinypic.com/2hfnt36.jpg http://i42.tinypic.com/w978ty.jpg

crocus
02-23-2012, 12:47 AM
If one parent moving away from the other parent and taking the children was an easy task in NC, Nancy Cooper would have moved away long before she was murdered. Instead, she was stuck because the father of the children lived and worked there.

Wow. Just wow.

gritguy
02-23-2012, 01:13 AM
I don't know for certain if any kind of judicial award of money to MY was a factor in why JY brutally murdered his wife (I have a belief), but the idea he could skate away with little to no liability if they had gotten into litigation for divorce, equitable distribution, and child custody does not comport with any experience I have ever had in the North Carolina legal system.

In fact, I think that would have been the case only if MY conceded it,or hired the worst attorney ever.

One thing I personally didn't like in the BC case was what I thought was an excessive demand by NC's attorney against BC. Frequently, "family lawyers" IMO treat this kind of thing like money is the most important thing and make extremely high initial demands. They frequently try to back this up through the use of private investigators and the use of discovery procedures to gain leverage against the other spouse through use of adultery evidence and threats of suit against 3rd parties. The spouses can become more polarized and the kids can become pawns in the middle. I really hate that.

NC is a goldmine for this sort of litigation. Child custody is one thing that gets negotiated along with money. Yes, a judge can sort it out separately, but initially its part of the package of negotiation.

The idea that he would face little or no liability seems to me to be offered to support the theory he did not have money as a motive rather than what actually goes on in NC in divorce cases. I see this the same as letting him off the hook for not trying to keep his daughter, b/c the Fishers and the system would make it hard on him.

AlwaysShocked
02-23-2012, 02:27 AM
Oh, how I wish my long-ago divorce from my first husband had been in North Carolina instead of Pennsylvania. Here, alimony is not automatically granted and judges seem to require a really good reason for it, such as a disparity in assets and earning power between the parties. Also, the misbehavior of a party does not enter into the alimony decision. BUT behaviors and misbehaviors may be considered during equitable distribution. And in my case they were factored in, so I got a very favorable distribution. I've also heard that alot depends on the individual judge, so maybe I just got lucky.

Jason Young case - Well, folks, I am from the North and yes, the trial is moving slowly. I did not see the first trial, which others have said moved too fast.

But it does not seem to bother me as much as it is bothering those of you who live in the area. Don't know why that is, because you all should be more in tune with the slower pace of things, right?

I thought showing the JY testimony from the first trial was brilliant. The "televising" of the testimony takes a lot of the "heat" and "immediacy" out of his PERFORMANCE. And that's what it was. I did go back and watch his trial testimony from the first trial. I would bet his fakey-ness showed up more when shown up on a screeen than in person.

I thought the testimony of the teachers was so, so powerful. Hope they hold up those dolls and highlight that testimony in closing arguments, because that was powerful stuff.

Prosecution needs to not make the close about JY's infidelities - the jury surely gets that. They must make it about the pieces of the puzzle and about a pregnant mother and her daughter in that bloody bedroom. They need to concentrate on setting the scene as mother and daughter were discovered, with babydoll and child's blanket placed near the dead mother. How glad everyone is that the child is still alive. But the question must be asked, why is this child still alive?

The murderer was obviously in a frenzy of striking the victim. Thirty blows! And here I would like to have the prosecutors actually administer 30 blows - perhaps to a doll. Or even onto a table, if they can't bring themselves to use a doll. But that jury needs to HEAR thirty blows. That is quite some spanking!

The tiny, bloody footprints and the condition of the bathroom actually tell a story. There is blood all over that bathroom floor - on the stool, behind the door, even on the lower portion of the wall. And it appears there are "patterns" of blood in some places, like perhaps a small foot was being rubbed back and forth on the tile floor in order to make that pattern. To a two and a half year old, "making a pattern" with her foot would be fascinating. Sort of like painting. And the child would have no concept that the "paint" was her mother's blood.

Now, how does a small child get to the point of sitting down and placing their feet up against the lowest portion of the wall in the bathroom? Perhaps when they are closed up into that bathroom for some amount of time? A murderer who shuts a bloody child into a bathroom? A murderer who cleans a child? A murderer who discards a child's dirty pull-up?

At closing, the Prosecutors need to pull out all stops. Summon up all the bloody gore of this crime scene along with the horrendous nature of the head injuries that killed this young, pregnant mother. Anatomy of a head injury, indeed.

God, I hope they get him this time!

fran
02-23-2012, 04:20 AM
OMGoodness! AlwaysShocked:

You need to call this pros ASAP and send them your post.

Awesome presentation and tells it like it was and should be presented to the jury.

JMHO
fran

otto
02-23-2012, 04:51 AM
I thought showing the JY testimony from the first trial was brilliant. The "televising" of the testimony takes a lot of the "heat" and "immediacy" out of his PERFORMANCE. And that's what it was. I did go back and watch his trial testimony from the first trial. I would bet his fakey-ness showed up more when shown up on a screeen than in person.

I thought the testimony of the teachers was so, so powerful. Hope they hold up those dolls and highlight that testimony in closing arguments, because that was powerful stuff.
!

<snipped>

I agree that seeing a video of Jason bantering with the prosecutor was more powerful than anything he said. It revealed a clever combativeness that so disarmed the prosecutor that she forgot to ask the important questions. He was so quick on his feet ... but I don't think that means the prosecutors need to retire. Murderers, clever ones especially, have a way with people. He should have been questioned by a male.

I too found the testimony from the daycare employees powerful. Mothers would know what that meant ... and there are 8/4 female on the jury. My only hope is that if this is a turning point, no jury member ever disclose that fact.

janesdean
02-23-2012, 05:09 AM
Not enough, DG.

There was more than enough evidence to get Murder One, imo.

But back to this case, I doubt Judge Stephens will include a lesser charge.

I often thought Jason should take a plea.

If you think Jason is innocent, why would you think he should take a plea ?

otto
02-23-2012, 05:48 AM
Does anyone actually believe that Jason Young is not guilty in the murder of his pregnant wife?
I think the question some people have is whether there is sufficient evidence for a conviction.

otto
02-23-2012, 06:47 AM
New Thread

State vs. Jason Lynn Young 2-23-2012 - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community

BrownRice
02-23-2012, 07:09 AM
I dunno why this post made me laugh, but reading it, I had a soundtrack and the voice of dateline in my ear. If you guys haven't read the above in that voice, try it. It's dastardly to get joy from it, but it's kind of cool.

Here, I'll start ya off:

"It's a wintery day, in Brevard, North Carolina. But, every day is a wintry day for Jason Young. You seeee, he's been tried nineteen times for the murder of his wife and unborn son, and even though they haven't convicted him yet, they get a step closer every time they let him out on bond. Prosecutors in Raleigh, North Carolina are certain Mr. Young killed his young, pregnant wife, Michelle, in 2006. (Cue Dialogue from Pros in NC: Ummmm, ummmm, we decided the trial, number ummmmm, twenty, was uummmm, too much. So, we just decided. Well, HC, my fellow prosecutor had never actually committed a crime and we decided we'd do a little North Carolina Dexter meets Deliverance on Mr. Young. Cue Sound of owls in trees. Video of HC and BH in tree outside of PY's home in Brevard,NC)"

Thanks for my first laugh of the morning and for almost spilling coffee on my new computer.

heidisams
02-23-2012, 08:39 AM
Does anyone actually believe that Jason Young is not guilty in the murder of his pregnant wife?
I think the question some people have is whether there is sufficient evidence for a conviction.

I have no doubt he's guilty.... And I think there's sufficient evidence, whether or not it's being presented to the jury in a clear, effective way is something else. I think many opportunities have been missed by the pros, and I think the dt is taking those missed opportunities and poking holes left and right. However, if the pros is able to clear all that up in closing, then I think they will get a conviction.... The evidence is there...
JMO

nursebeeme
02-23-2012, 09:37 AM
New Thread

State vs. Jason Lynn Young 2-23-2012 - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community (http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=7628905#post7628905)

bumpity bumpity! doors are closing here.... move on over :-)