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borndem
02-22-2012, 07:03 AM
State vs. Jason Lynn Young 2-22-2012
Good Morning, Sleuthers!

http://www.wral.com/news/video/10690077/#/vid10690077

Lucky89
02-22-2012, 07:56 AM
Good Morning ... went to bed early so I could get up on time and would not miss the first part of the trial!!

dmaxphil
02-22-2012, 08:34 AM
Missed all of yesterday's discussion. Pasting a response here from previous thread.


It is true that not all adulterers commit murder;


Yes, I would imagine it is a very small percentage. Way less than 1%.



It has been said that the security camera didn't show JY unplugging it or shoving it up; however, the security camera didn't show anyone unplugging it or shoving it up. That leaves the question, who was staying in the HI on Nov. 2, 2006 who needed the security camera unplugged at 11:20 pm and shoved up towards the ceiling at 6:35am the next morning?


Where are you getting these times? 6:35? 11:20?


Why was JY's shirt that he was seen wearing on the security camera at the front desk at midnight not in his luggage or in his vehicle the next evening? Clothing does not just disappear without a reason, and I cannot think of a logical reason for the shirt to be missing other than he threw it away.


I agree


How did a pair of Hush Puppy shoes with a unique sole just happen to be found in blood at the crime scene? A pair of HP with a unique sole that JY just happened to have owned.


How unique are these soles? I've seen no data to back this up. How many shoes were sold in the US that had this sole?


Why would a man staying at the HI on the 4th floor leave his valuables unsecured twice to go downstairs because he worried about disturbing his neighbors by shutting his room door? Why would a man go downstairs twice and prop open an exit door because that was more convenient than carrying his keycard with him?


Great question. I didn't buy JY's testimony that he didn't want to wake up neighbors. He admitted that there was no force/spring in the door and it actually stayed open without using anything to keep it from closing. Why leave your keycard in room for a trip downstairs to smoke.



Why was there no forced entry into the home?


Maybe someone rushed MY while she was outside. Got in through garage?


Why was a pregnant woman beaten 30 times to her and her unborn son's death, yet her 2 1/2 year old daughter who witnessed part of the crime was cleaned up, cared for, and left alive?


Many murderers draw the line at kids. Speaking of cleaned up.... If, JY cleaned up CY, she would have been left alone in house from 3-3:30am to 1:30pm. Give me a reason for anyone to clean up kid. I assume whomever killed MY assumed kid would just get dirty again being left at crime scene. There must be another explanation for her cleanliness.


Why was Michelle's purse that was sitting out in the open not stolen, but a wallet with $500 in it that was hidden in JY's closet was stolen? Why was JY's closet gone through, but Michelle's was left untouched?


I thought both were found to be not in their normal condition. Where is this testimony?


Why was the house not ransacked?


No idea. If it was, would this help JY??? If he was the master murder planner, wouldn't he try to make the scene look like a robbery?


Why didn't the dog that stayed in the house go after the "stranger" who murdered Michelle?


Some dogs are not wired this way.


Why does the timeline of JY stopping at Four Brothers in King fit perfectly?


Good question


Why did no cameras record JY going towards the breakfast area on Friday morning?


Why does this matter? If you believe JY is guilty, you must believe he made it back to the hotel to push up camera.


Why was the last person JY talked to before the murder and the second person (behind trying to reach his mom) he talked to after the murder MM?


Not sure why this is relevant. He spoke to MM what, 400 times in this timeframe?? Chance were good that he spoke to her before and after murder.


Why did JY print off the MapQuest directions and the Coach purse from Ebay at around the same time and remembered to get one but forgot the other?


No idea. Not sure this helps pros in any way though.


Why was JY so persistent about getting MF over to his house to pick up the Coach purse printout? He called twice and left messages, and he had his mom call once and leave a message.


Well if you believe JY its because he wanted to surprise his wife with the bag. In one of the messages he mentioned that if MF couldn't get over it was not a huge deal. If you think he's guilty its because he loved his daughter enough to get her out of there, but not much as if this were the case wouldn't he try to get his daughter out of there before noon-1:30?


Why didn't JY answer his MIL's 4 phone calls within the space of an hour when cell phone records show that he retrieved the two messages she left him? Why didn't he return those calls?


No idea.


When JY arrived at his mother's home and his stepfather gave him the news about Michelle's death, why did JY fall "plumb to his knees?" No surprise, no denial, no insisting that they must have gotten the news wrong. Just immediate acceptance. Remember that when LF found out, she was so shocked she couldn't even cry because she couldn't accept it yet.


Sure, because we all react exactly the same to news of our spouse's death.


Why didn't JY help LE at all even with his lawyer present?


No one knows. Was he advised?


Why didn't JY take a polygraph exam to clear himself with LE? MF did.


No one knows, was he advised? Have you ever taken a polygraph? Do you even know what it measures? How easy it is to cheat? Get false readings?


Why didn't JY keep custody of his daughter and allow MF and LF visitation?


No idea. Was he advised to wait to pursue custody after criminal trial?


Why didn't JY ever offer an award leading to the arrest of conviction of Michelle's killer(s)? Her place of employment did 9 months later; I guess they figured JY wasn't ever going to.


Good question


Why did JY testify that he was working on his marriage when in fact he was having two affairs?

Because he was a pig?


This is an open and shut case for me. JY has done everything in his power to make himself look guilty.

Just not seeing it. There are definitely some points here that make it very possible JY did it and is guilty.. There is also some evidence that makes it very possible he is innocent.

Dkny
02-22-2012, 08:35 AM
Good morning !

Just the Fax
02-22-2012, 08:39 AM
Where are you getting these times? 6:35? 11:20?

Testimony

I thought both were found to be not in their normal condition. Where is this testimony?

The $500 cash in a new wallet was missing, per Pat Young 5/2007 SW.
MY's purse was untouched, per testimony

enzeder
02-22-2012, 08:40 AM
Another screen cap - Cracker Barrel. Not very clear I know but it shows both feet.

http://i43.tinypic.com/14701w.jpg

heidisams
02-22-2012, 08:41 AM
Good Morning ... went to bed early so I could get up on time and would not miss the first part of the trial!!

Good morning! I wanted to get to bed early, but unfortunately with the kiddos afternoon and evening schedules, nighttime is when I can get caught up on this case! Soooo much info to go over.... I was a Caylee follower, so came in late on this one. But, this case is definitely one of the addicting ones.

kljohnson0458
02-22-2012, 08:44 AM
Good morning. I think if they are still showing JY's prior testimony I'll rely on you experts to post the dish on it because I can't stand to look at or hear him talk. Like I said yesterday after watching him for 5 minutes, I believe the man isn't quite sure of his sexuality. JMO

nursebeeme
02-22-2012, 08:46 AM
some of my rambling thoughts (didn't want to quote that big post above and take up space):

there were only around 190-some pairs of that size shoe made (very rare)

I believe JY did make it look like a crime scene: re: missing jewelry box drawers and missing rings from Michelle's hands

Forensic experts testified that Michelle's body was moved so the perp could open the door to JY's closet: so it looks like the perp was for sure in there (and wallet with the cash is missing... not to mention it just happened to be the accused's closet and some of his clothing has been unaccounted for)

.... this is just from the best of my recollection of following the trial

Oh one other thing: The dog was Jason's before he married Michelle... (testimony from yesterday... from JY's last stint on the stand)... this is also logical as to why the dog would not bark (but I do agree that some dogs can be 'wired' that way)

oh... also... good morning everybody! :cheer:

nursebeeme
02-22-2012, 08:53 AM
further musing about the closet:

jmhoo but it is very possible that JY (assuming he is the perp) did not plan to move MY and open the closet but rather forgot the wallet with the cash in it... (the fact that the perp only went into his closet... and only his hidden wallet with cash was missing is a big hink to me esp with Michelle's purse sitting right out there in the open and obvious)

it seems more glaring to me day by day that this was no stranger at all! (I am new to the case so am finding out everything as the trial progresses...)

Just the Fax
02-22-2012, 08:53 AM
Check this TV clip out...interesting insight into Jay's and his mistresses heads.
...Jay is sporting some new shades, LOL

HLN - Jason Young murder trial - Patrick Wanis PhD - YouTube!

cityslick
02-22-2012, 08:55 AM
IMO, I don't think the shoes (and the rarity) of them can convict him alone. As I think more about it, I think the fact that they were sold in DSW (a retail store) and not a custom order/ebay thing lessens it a little. I think if the jury buys into that yes, it was JY that tampered with the HI cameras (and to be honest, there is no evidence to show that he did not), then that combined with the shoes should be enough to remove reasonable doubt. Because then to me you are explaining away two somewhat hard to come by coincidences.

He can get a NG (or mistrial) with explaining away one of those 'hard' coincidences, but not two. IMO

luckyme
02-22-2012, 09:00 AM
further musing about the closet:

jmhoo but it is very possible that JY (assuming he is the perp) did not plan to move MY and open the closet but rather forgot the wallet with the cash in it... (the fact that the perp only went into his closet... and only his hidden wallet with cash was missing is a big hink to me esp with Michelle's purse sitting right out there in the open and obvious)

it seems more glaring to me day by day that this was no stranger at all! (I am new to the case so am finding out everything as the trial progresses...)

If the perp found a wallet in JY closet with 500.00 wouldnt he think he hit the jackpot and tear up the house looking for more? Purse seemed pretty much in tact. moo

Bottle Cap
02-22-2012, 09:04 AM
Many murderers draw the line at kids. Speaking of cleaned up.... If, JY cleaned up CY, she would have been left alone in house from 3-3:30am to 1:30pm. Give me a reason for anyone to clean up kid. I assume whomever killed MY assumed kid would just get dirty again being left at crime scene. There must be another explanation for her cleanliness.






Snipped all over the place for brevity.

I think JY had to clean CY up. CY was the only bloody item allowed out of that bedroom. Everything else was bagged up, cleaned up, removed. Because CY was bloody then, anything relating to her would be like big traffic arrows pointing at the killer's movements - just like the bathroom was. And the downstairs doorknob - if CY was taken outside to have her feet cleaned, her little foot would have been right at doorknob height.

So - the killer had every reason to clean her feet. If he'd taken off her wet diaper, rocked her in a chair, and then tucked her into her bed, all those movements would have been patently obvious. And they'd all have pointed right to a parent.

dmaxphil
02-22-2012, 09:05 AM
Where are you getting these times? 6:35? 11:20?

Testimony



Must have missed this somewhere. So he unplugged camera before his trip to front desk to get paper?

I thought the hotel people testified that camera was spotted unplugged at 3-4:30. Immediately plugged back in. Then they noticed it was pushed up 10-30 mins later?



The $500 cash in a new wallet was missing, per Pat Young 5/2007 SW.
MY's purse was untouched, per testimony

Was referring to closets. I thought both were found to have been "not the way they normally are."

fifteen89
02-22-2012, 09:08 AM
All the talk about why the Prosecution played the video of Jason's testimony from the previous trial, that there MUST be something big he said that they can prove to be untrue - isn't it just as likely that they wouldn't know until it's too late whether or not Jason will testify in this second trial? If they don't put in the tape in their case in chief and he doesn't take the stand, they're screwed.

heidisams
02-22-2012, 09:08 AM
further musing about the closet:

jmhoo but it is very possible that JY (assuming he is the perp) did not plan to move MY and open the closet but rather forgot the wallet with the cash in it... (the fact that the perp only went into his closet... and only his hidden wallet with cash was missing is a big hink to me esp with Michelle's purse sitting right out there in the open and obvious)

it seems more glaring to me day by day that this was no stranger at all! (I am new to the case so am finding out everything as the trial progresses...)

The fact that the perp moved Michelle's body to get into the closet, his closet, is just one more check mark to add to the jy is guilty column for me! Who would've needed to get into that closet? I have also thought he probably had a "murder kit" waiting in their for him... Clothes, shoes, garbage bags, etc... With their being no evidence found outside of that confined space, I think he had planned ahead of time a way to cover his tracks.

Talina
02-22-2012, 09:13 AM
Must have missed this somewhere. So he unplugged camera before his trip to front desk to get paper?

I thought the hotel people testified that camera was spotted unplugged at 3-4:30. Immediately plugged back in. Then they noticed it was pushed up 10-30 mins later?



Was referring to closets. I thought both were found to have been "not the way they normally are."

I agree with what you say about the camera being spotted unplugged at that time; however, I do not think it was immediately plugged back in. The night clerk auditor testified that the told Elmer about it when he go there shortly after 5am and Elmer testified he plugged it back in later (I think it was between 5:30 and 6am or thereabouts). Then about 30 minutes later, the camera was pushed upwards filming the ceiling.


I recall the testimony about the closets being that MY's door was closed and didn't appear to have been entered into.

dmaxphil
02-22-2012, 09:16 AM
Snipped all over the place for brevity.

I think JY had to clean CY up. CY was the only bloody item allowed out of that bedroom. Everything else was bagged up, cleaned up, removed. Because CY was bloody then, anything relating to her would be like big traffic arrows pointing at the killer's movements - just like the bathroom was.

This is a very good point.

Off topic but ... anyone else find it odd that these parents didn't utilize safety/child gates upstairs? We have a two story and our 2.5 yo daughter's bedroom is upstairs. We have 2 gates between her and the stairs just in case.

cityslick
02-22-2012, 09:20 AM
I agree with what you say about the camera being spotted unplugged at that time; however, I do not think it was immediately plugged back in. The night clerk auditor testified that the told Elmer about it when he go there shortly after 5am and Elmer testified he plugged it back in later (I think it was between 5:30 and 6am or thereabouts). Then about 30 minutes later, the camera was pushed upwards filming the ceiling.


I recall the testimony about the closets being that MY's door was closed and didn't appear to have been entered into.

Can you clarify, when did they find out it was unplugged? How long had it been unplugged before they realized it?

TigerBalm
02-22-2012, 09:23 AM
Originally Posted by tarheel8600
Why did no cameras record JY going towards the breakfast area on Friday morning?


Why does this matter? If you believe JY is guilty, you must believe he made it back to the hotel to push up camera.


<snipped>

It matters because the defendant testified to it, if he lied about this fact what other facts did he lie about.

dmaxphil
02-22-2012, 09:27 AM
<snipped>

It matters because the defendant testified to it, if he lied about this fact what other facts did he lie about.

Well, in that case.. Wasn't it testified that most areas of lobby near breakfast area were not visible from camera. No way to prove he was or wasn't in this area.

Just the Fax
02-22-2012, 09:29 AM
Can you clarify, when did they find out it was unplugged? How long had it been unplugged before they realized it?

Reviewing the tape later by LE, the camera went black at 11:20PM.
The staff noticed it when he saw the monitor cycling through and one of the cameras was black....he said after he found rock in door during rounds, between 3-5AM.

Wolfpack
02-22-2012, 09:30 AM
Alright, I was speaking with someone about this yesterday, and they stated that during the testimony yesterday it was revealed that the same sole was also used in (2) other "cheaper" models of shoes Hushpuppy produced and that he could not testify to how many of those were available.

Is this accurate? I have not gotten a chance to watch yesterday's testimony, but this may lessen the impact of the 195 figure we've been bandying about.

Just the Fax
02-22-2012, 09:31 AM
Well, in that case.. Wasn't it testified that most areas of lobby near breakfast area were not visible from camera. No way to prove he was or wasn't in this area.

The west hall from the breakfast area would catch anyone leaving that area and walking out the west exit (where his car was)...impossible to avoid even the 14 second camera delay.

otto
02-22-2012, 09:31 AM
Must have missed this somewhere. So he unplugged camera before his trip to front desk to get paper?

I thought the hotel people testified that camera was spotted unplugged at 3-4:30. Immediately plugged back in. Then they noticed it was pushed up 10-30 mins later?



Was referring to closets. I thought both were found to have been "not the way they normally are."

There was testimony in the last trial that the camera was unplugged at 11:20 - don't recall it from this trial. This trial we heard that the camera timestamps were often wrong. The camera was noticed unplugged by the night audit clerk when he came down the stairs after delivering papers between 3:30 and 4:30. It was plugged in at around 5:30 AM. It was noticed tilted again at 6:35.

Talina
02-22-2012, 09:31 AM
Can you clarify, when did they find out it was unplugged? How long had it been unplugged before they realized it?

The night auditor testified he found it unplugged on one of his rounds either delivering the quick checkout forms under the doors or when he was delivery the USA today papers to the doors. He said he does them in separate rounds, starts at 3:30 am and finishes in about an hr. He testified he could not recall which time he noticed but it was during that hour.

I am going on memory of his testimony. (just to point out where my info is coming from)

cityslick
02-22-2012, 09:32 AM
Reviewing the tape later by LE, the camera went black at 11:20PM.
The staff noticed it when he saw the monitor cycling through and one of the cameras was black....he said after he found rock in door during rounds, between 3-5AM.

Interesting. Cell records have him on the phone past 11:20pm, correct? Did he unplug it and then go back to his room?

Shelby1
02-22-2012, 09:33 AM
Good morning, everyone :)


Shoe testimony from yesterday was so big to me. Just want to remind everyone that only 195 pairs of brown Hush Puppy Orbital size 12s were made. I think it's such a huge point.

I'm still trying to keep my "mock juror hat" on.

otto
02-22-2012, 09:34 AM
Reviewing the tape later by LE, the camera went black at 11:20PM.
The staff noticed it when he saw the monitor cycling through and one of the cameras was black....he said after he found rock in door during rounds, between 3-5AM.

In the first trial, the night audit clerk claimed he noticed the camera monitor for that camera went black and so he checked on it. In this trial he said that he was coming down the stairs and noticed the rock and then the camera.

He changed his testimony.

cityslick
02-22-2012, 09:35 AM
Did staff not have monitors to see what the cameras were doing?

heidisams
02-22-2012, 09:35 AM
All the talk about why the Prosecution played the video of Jason's testimony from the previous trial, that there MUST be something big he said that they can prove to be untrue - isn't it just as likely that they wouldn't know until it's too late whether or not Jason will testify in this second trial? If they don't put in the tape in their case in chief and he doesn't take the stand, they're screwed.

I thought it was pretty smart to play his testimony in its entirety. If they showed only snippets and not all of it, it looks like the other stuff is harmful to them and that they don't want the jurors to hear it. And you can bet the defense will show it, if not. Get it all out there, so the jurors think that the prosecution isn't afraid of it. Since his testimony was a big reason for hanging the jury last time, I think it's pretty smart to present it and try to take some of the dt's power away...

Just the Fax
02-22-2012, 09:36 AM
Alright, I was speaking with someone about this yesterday, and they stated that during the testimony yesterday it was revealed that the same sole was also used in (2) other "cheaper" models of shoes Hushpuppy produced and that he could not testify to how many of those were available.

Is this accurate? I have not gotten a chance to watch yesterday's testimony, but this may lessen the impact of the 195 figure we've been bandying about.

The Sealy and Belville...

The HP rep said these shoes are not widely sold. The Raleigh area has 2 boutique shops as well as DSW (Orbital only)selling the brand.

It is a fact, that any men's HP shoe is rare in the Raleigh area.

otto
02-22-2012, 09:37 AM
The west hall from the breakfast area would catch anyone leaving that area and walking out the west exit (where his car was)...impossible to avoid even the 14 second camera delay.

No cameras recorded him leaving that morning, but we know he was there and that he left that morning.

Wolfpack
02-22-2012, 09:37 AM
The Sealy and Belville...

The HP rep said these shoes are not widely sold. The Raleigh area has 2 boutique shops as well as DSW (Orbital only)selling the brand.

It is a fact, that any men's HP shoe is rare in the Raleigh area.

Thanks. That clears it up.

Just the Fax
02-22-2012, 09:38 AM
In the first trial, the night audit clerk claimed he noticed the camera monitor for that camera went black and so he checked on it. In this trial he said that he was coming down the stairs and noticed the rock and then the camera.

He changed his testimony.

He looked at the monitor after he saw the rock...checking for what happened....makes sense.

TigerBalm
02-22-2012, 09:38 AM
Interesting. Cell records have him on the phone past 11:20pm, correct? Did he unplug it and then go back to his room?

Yes, the defendant testified he left his room to get a charger for his computer and then went out again to smoke a cigar and read the paper, using a twig both times.

Speaking of twigs, why were LE able to find the rock that was in the door but not those the twigs???

Wolfpack
02-22-2012, 09:39 AM
Yes, the defendant testified he left his room to get a charger for his computer and then went out again to smoke a cigar and read the paper, using a twig both times.

Speaking of twigs, why were LE able to find the rock that was in the door but not those the twigs???

I doubt LE was looking for twigs, since the first they heard of it was this summer.

otto
02-22-2012, 09:40 AM
Interesting. Cell records have him on the phone past 11:20pm, correct? Did he unplug it and then go back to his room?

That's the theory ... he went down, unplugged the camera, went back up to his room, went down again, stopped at the front desk in full view of cameras at midnight, then walked straight toward another camera at midnight (exit door camera).

luckyme
02-22-2012, 09:42 AM
All jurors present!!! Lets get going!

octobermoon
02-22-2012, 09:42 AM
Yikes camera guy got a shot of the jury. :eek:

(Good morning)

TigerBalm
02-22-2012, 09:42 AM
I doubt LE was looking for twigs, since the first they heard of it was this summer.

True but according to the defendant the twig fell on the ground when he opened the door, meaning the twig(s) should have been seen when the rock was found.

Talina
02-22-2012, 09:42 AM
Alright, I was speaking with someone about this yesterday, and they stated that during the testimony yesterday it was revealed that the same sole was also used in (2) other "cheaper" models of shoes Hushpuppy produced and that he could not testify to how many of those were available.

Is this accurate? I have not gotten a chance to watch yesterday's testimony, but this may lessen the impact of the 195 figure we've been bandying about.

Actually, I recall the testimony being exactly the opposite. The HP rep said that the original shoes used this sole (a slip on and a lace up version) were more expensive and DSW asked them to make a lower price point design of this shoe. They removed some of the gel pieces of the sole and then named it Orbital, discontinued the other two and just made this one slip on of the other version with out the gel in the sole.

waltzingmatilda
02-22-2012, 09:44 AM
Good morning everyone!

I'm following along with you all today. I appreciate all the awesome updates:)

wm

luckyme
02-22-2012, 09:45 AM
" as a salesman sometimes u have to guilt people into doing things " UHM!!! words of jason young!

cityslick
02-22-2012, 09:47 AM
Does anyone know the answer to this? Thanks in advance.

Did staff not have monitors to see what the cameras were doing?

Just the Fax
02-22-2012, 09:48 AM
This part of his testimony will last about 1 hour.
The cross was another hour

octobermoon
02-22-2012, 09:48 AM
I have to admit his attrny's prepared him well. I wonder how many times they practiced this testimony. (I am cynical, can't help it.)

Shelby1
02-22-2012, 09:50 AM
Did I hear that right?

JY stopped at Applebee's on his way home after knowing Michelle was killed?

fredwomble
02-22-2012, 09:50 AM
Did I understand correctly? When he "first learned" his wife was dead, he started sobbing and crying? He did not ask, "what the h*ll happened?", "where is Cassidy?" Hmmm...

Talina
02-22-2012, 09:50 AM
Does anyone know the answer to this? Thanks in advance.

The night clerk testified that there was a monitor that showed each camera's view as it cycled through their shots. He said the monitor is in the back office behind the front desk. So, sounds to me like someone has to be sitting there staring at the monitor to catch a specific camera not being part of the cycle, as in a black screen, etc. For example, I believe the clerk said that is how they discovered the camera had been pushed up. The video showed that camera was taking pictures of the ceiling as it was cycling through the monitor.

(my memory of the testimony)

Just the Fax
02-22-2012, 09:54 AM
I have to admit his attrny's prepared him well. I wonder how many times they practiced this testimony. (I am cynical, can't help it.)

Read what his FIL said....Jay probably read the script once and could recite it word for word.

http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s216/alive695/Capture-20.jpg

fredwomble
02-22-2012, 09:54 AM
"I will not speak to police until I have an attorney." Completely reasonable and smart. And I understand his silence cannot legally be held against him. But it stretches the bounds of common sense to never say a word and then testify 5 years later.

Roger Smith dropped this client for some reason...perhaps there was a disagreement as to whether Jason would speak with police, even in Smith's presence.

luckyme
02-22-2012, 09:54 AM
Did he go to applebees and eat on the way back to Raleigh???? Really!!!! :hills:

dmaxphil
02-22-2012, 09:55 AM
IMO, those most damning part of this camera stuff is that they hadn't been tampered with for the previous 9 years Elmer worked at the Hampton.

Now if I could just be convinced that JY was stupid enough to make "Stealing gas in King, NC" part of his plan I'd be off the fence.

At this point, most signs are pointing to JY having a part in it. I think though, if he did it, he likely had assistance.

twirlygurl
02-22-2012, 09:55 AM
Have you noticed how animated JY is? I don't think anyone else on the stand has moved so much while talking.

cityslick
02-22-2012, 09:56 AM
See, right here, Spivey needs to start breaking this up, testifying to the discrepancies.

Tipstaff
02-22-2012, 09:57 AM
JY talks way to much. For those following the BC trial and his depo...words had to be elicited from him and this guy just can't stop talking - on the stand at least.

Can't honestly see who could stand to be around him let alone have an affair/sex with him. JMO

Wolfpack
02-22-2012, 09:59 AM
I have to admit his attrny's prepared him well. I wonder how many times they practiced this testimony. (I am cynical, can't help it.)

My guess is they brought in other attorneys to practice crossing him in the jail, so he could get a different style than Klink and Collins. Probably 2-3 times I would think.

octobermoon
02-22-2012, 10:00 AM
Did he go to applebees and eat on the way back to Raleigh???? Really!!!! :hills:

mind boggling

Wolfpack
02-22-2012, 10:00 AM
"I will not speak to police until I have an attorney." Completely reasonable and smart. And I understand his silence cannot legally be held against him. But it stretches the bounds of common sense to never say a word and then testify 5 years later.

Roger Smith dropped this client for some reason...perhaps there was a disagreement as to whether Jason would speak with police, even in Smith's presence.

I think it was money, wasn't it?

Turnadot
02-22-2012, 10:01 AM
JY talks way to much. For those following the BC trial and his depo...words had to be elicited from him and this guy just can't stop talking - on the stand at least.

Can't honestly see who could stand to be around him let alone have an affair/sex with him. JMO
BBM

Maybe the jury in the first trial liked that, because it might give the impression that JY is "open" and not trying to hide anything.

Me? I think he's too polished, rehearsed, slick, and full of s--t.

cityslick
02-22-2012, 10:01 AM
mind boggling

I know that Applebees, ate there a few times.

octobermoon
02-22-2012, 10:01 AM
Oh poor JY. GRRR

OT my MIL planned my DH's memorial service and I will be forever grateful for her strength.

cityslick
02-22-2012, 10:02 AM
BBM

Maybe the jury in the first trial liked that, because it might give the impression that JY is "open" and not trying to hide anything.

Me? I think he's too polished, rehearsed, slick, and full of s--t.

This jury is to his advantage than. Isn't a lot of them younger (30ish) women?

Just the Fax
02-22-2012, 10:03 AM
IMO, those most damning part of this camera stuff is that they hadn't been tampered with for the previous 9 years Elmer worked at the Hampton.

Now if I could just be convinced that JY was stupid enough to make "Stealing gas in King, NC" part of his plan I'd be off the fence.

At this point, most signs are pointing to JY having a part in it. I think though, if he did it, he likely had assistance.

He parked on the very far side of the gas island.
Knowing they would be paying cash , most customers would park at the pump closest to the store since you have to go in to pay at some point.

Do the actions of this man in the white SUV make sense?
Nope. He parked as far away as possible because he was planning to do a pump and a quick run behind McDonalds.
Risky? Of course. At the same time it was the only way to get the needed gas w/o a credit card or showing his face to the clerk. Turns out Gracie busted him.

Madeleine74
02-22-2012, 10:03 AM
Jason obviously is employing the sales technique "the more you tell, the more you sell."

Works for manure. Maybe for software. But for a murder trial?

Grammy Jean
02-22-2012, 10:03 AM
No Oscar for JY. He's trying for that best actor award but not buying it.

twirlygurl
02-22-2012, 10:03 AM
I feel nauseous.

heidisams
02-22-2012, 10:04 AM
Actually, I recall the testimony being exactly the opposite. The HP rep said that the original shoes used this sole (a slip on and a lace up version) were more expensive and DSW asked them to make a lower price point design of this shoe. They removed some of the gel pieces of the sole and then named it Orbital, discontinued the other two and just made this one slip on of the other version with out the gel in the sole.

These are some of the "details" the prosecution needs to reiterate and make very clear in their closing.... Because the defense is going to put whatever spin they can in an effort to show reasonable doubt related to these shoes. Squeaky wheel gets the grease! I think whether he walks or not, is going to come down to the prosecutions closing...

Boodles
02-22-2012, 10:04 AM
Well that was a quick recovery, Jason. Where's the barf icon?

ncsu95
02-22-2012, 10:04 AM
those tears disappeared very quickly when he lifted his head. It's like they were never there.

Shelby1
02-22-2012, 10:04 AM
Faker.

Tipstaff
02-22-2012, 10:05 AM
This just doesn't have a ring of truth ....gut check on this testimony ..nope see the swift recovery. He doesn't even need a minute he shifts gears.

Grammy Jean
02-22-2012, 10:05 AM
Anyone see a real tear or even red eyes when he looks back up?

Turnadot
02-22-2012, 10:05 AM
This jury is to his advantage than. Isn't a lot of them younger (30ish) women?
IDK, I'm a 30ish woman, and his polished, fake charm testimony creeps me the heck out. JY was probably a decent salesman.
*smirk*

But....I'm not buying his BS.

octobermoon
02-22-2012, 10:05 AM
That was a quick recovery.

waltzingmatilda
02-22-2012, 10:05 AM
JLY is doing the FCA move pressing the bridge of his nose and eyes trying to work up tears....but I don't really see any.

MOO

wm

dmaxphil
02-22-2012, 10:06 AM
Today could get good if the prosecution has anything. This will be their best opportunity.

NCB
02-22-2012, 10:06 AM
If he gouges his eyes enough he might eek out a tear...

Wolfpack
02-22-2012, 10:06 AM
I was doubting this move yesterday, but I actually think this was a great thing by the prosecution to play his testimony. The first jury obviously bought some of his testimony, and he came off as "real" to them (I'm assuming). But by replaying a video, it's cold and detached. He's not sitting three feet from them, reacting to their faces. It's going to take away from any human element the jurors could have gotten from his testimony in person.

Just the Fax
02-22-2012, 10:06 AM
I think it was money, wasn't it?

Klink decided the $85 / hr from the state was good enough.
Little Roger could have gotten the same deal.
I'm thinking it was more that he knew Jay was guilty and felt he could not offer the defense he deserved. MOO

cityslick
02-22-2012, 10:07 AM
I don't think this is an effective way to play this back to the jury. They should be breaking it up with testimony from Spivey IMO.

Boodles
02-22-2012, 10:07 AM
Did I miss it? Did it get covered where he stayed between Nov 3 and when he returned to Brevard? Was he at Meredith's the entire time? I can't imagine.

cityslick
02-22-2012, 10:08 AM
IDK, I'm a 30ish woman, and his polished, fake charm testimony creeps me the heck out. JY was probably a decent salesman.
*smirk*

But....I'm not buying his BS.

Yes but it's not a fair comparison, you know his back story.

parasol
02-22-2012, 10:08 AM
Ugh, he has such an obvious "lying demeanor", for lack of a better expression. It's immediately repellant to anyone not receptive to it.

octobermoon
02-22-2012, 10:08 AM
I missed the date of the PR trip with CY. TIA if anyone heard.

dmaxphil
02-22-2012, 10:09 AM
Did I miss it? Did it get covered where he stayed between Nov 3 and when he returned to Brevard? Was he at Meredith's the entire time? I can't imagine.

Josh, I think, mentioned a hotel that week.

Tipstaff
02-22-2012, 10:09 AM
I don't think this is an effective way to play this back to the jury. They should be breaking it up with testimony from Spivey IMO.

Absolutely - is there some agreement by the PT that they would play this without interruption?

It makes no sense the PT is giving him this free pass in this way.

luckyme
02-22-2012, 10:10 AM
I don't think this is an effective way to play this back to the jury. They should be breaking it up with testimony from Spivey IMO.

Maybe they r gonna let this play through first. Brad coopers trial was so long and drawn out with that depo. moo

cityslick
02-22-2012, 10:10 AM
JLY is doing the FCA move pressing the bridge of his nose and eyes trying to work up tears....but I don't really see any.

MOO

wm

If you want to see true emotion on the stand, I present (if you can believe it), Cindy Anthony.

fifteen89
02-22-2012, 10:11 AM
those tears disappeared very quickly when he lifted his head. It's like they were never there.

Sure did, didn't they. No need for a flood alert, warning or call to the insurance guy.

Madeleine74
02-22-2012, 10:11 AM
I can't believe anyone, let alone a jury, would buy this act of his. It's just so transparent to me, even if I didn't know anything about this case I'd still see through this guy's obvious B.S.

Tipstaff
02-22-2012, 10:11 AM
Websleuths = vigilantes? LOL

Bottle Cap
02-22-2012, 10:12 AM
Appreciate the running commentary that validates my decision not to watch due to overwhelming revulsion!

:lurk:

Just the Fax
02-22-2012, 10:12 AM
I don't think this is an effective way to play this back to the jury. They should be breaking it up with testimony from Spivey IMO.
Be patient....
They must play his entire testimony in full context first.
Spivey will then take the stand and each clip showing lies and deception will be picked apart.
Jay will soon be fully exposed as a lying murderer.

Shelby1
02-22-2012, 10:12 AM
Internet vigilante group????

fifteen89
02-22-2012, 10:13 AM
So he lost two jobs because of the internet vigilantes after him? Couldn't have possibly been because these two companies, oh, I don't know, didn't want to employ a cold-blooded killer? Nah, you're probably right Jason, that couldn't be part of their reasons.

Tipstaff
02-22-2012, 10:14 AM
Notice he doesn't say he LOST his wife and family? It is all about him.

Boodles
02-22-2012, 10:14 AM
I can't believe anyone, let alone a jury, would buy this act of his. It's just so transparent to me, even if I didn't know anything about this case I'd still see through this guy's obvious B.S.

So stilted, down to the rehearsed stuttering. I agree Mad, it's not convincing at all. And this "woe is me" act is starting to piss me off.

fifteen89
02-22-2012, 10:14 AM
"I've lost family, friends, jobs, I've lost everything......"
Couldn't mention Michelle's name in there??? Unborn son???

twirlygurl
02-22-2012, 10:14 AM
"I've lost family, friends, job....I've lost everything." Anyone notice something that's missing??? How about his wife??? Very strange. Strange indeed!

dmaxphil
02-22-2012, 10:14 AM
Be patient....
They must play his entire testimony in full context first.
Spivey will then take the stand and each clip showing lies and deception will be picked apart.
Jay will soon be fully exposed as a lying murderer.

All today you think? Or do you think this will span multiple days?

NCB
02-22-2012, 10:15 AM
It's interesting he remembers things from the past so clearly, so definitely, but when it comes to events surrounding the murder, his demeanor takes on an almost ethereal, dreamy quality--I can't put my finger on it. He (feigns IMO) confusion, vulnerability, a victim state. It's so strange. "I don't, I don't...I don't remember..."

Boodles
02-22-2012, 10:15 AM
His 'last normal conversation' with Michelle, (the wife), right before he called Michelle (his mistress).

Madeleine74
02-22-2012, 10:17 AM
Classic sociopath in his best performance. Blatantly and obviously rehearsed. Then again, he snookered lots of people and has done so his whole life.

Pocono Sleuther
02-22-2012, 10:17 AM
Memo to JY: You look like a bumbling fool and an uncaring arse when you detail what YOU have lost and do not include your WIFE AND UNBORN SON! Also, stumbling over words does not make you appear upset (as you are trying your best to appear...shaken and emotional), it makes your LIES even more obvious.

gorealtors
02-22-2012, 10:18 AM
I missed the date of the PR trip with CY. TIA if anyone heard.


It was early Nov 2007, the first anniversary of MY's death. While LF and her family were at home grieving, JY and his clan were living it up in PR, likely paid for with funds from MY's 401K.

gracielee
02-22-2012, 10:18 AM
He remembered calling his mistress, numerous times. He's such a jerk, I can hardly think of anything else to say. :( One lie after another. Hope the questions about whether he owned those shoes are answered now, and what became of them.

octobermoon
02-22-2012, 10:19 AM
Yesterday, he did well (on the recorded testimony), but wow this morning he really comes off badly in my opinion.

Boodles
02-22-2012, 10:21 AM
What boggles my mind is: how can PY possibly love this POS? Can love really be that blind? The guy has absolutely no remorse.

Pocono Sleuther
02-22-2012, 10:21 AM
Classic sociopath in his best performance. Blatantly and obviously rehearsed. Then again, he snookered lots of people and has done so his whole life.

But he's not even very good at the act. Casey Anthony was confident in her words. Of course they were lies but she made a better appearance. JY can't even mimic the proper emotional expressions well.

Boodles
02-22-2012, 10:22 AM
"I've lost family, friends, job....I've lost everything." Anyone notice something that's missing??? How about his wife??? Very strange. Strange indeed!

I'm surprised he didn't throw in his mournfulness about being unable to attend State games!

gracielee
02-22-2012, 10:22 AM
I don't think I have the stomach for a third JLY trial. :(

Mama-cita
02-22-2012, 10:23 AM
I missed the date of the PR trip with CY. TIA if anyone heard.

It was November a year after the murder.

Pocono Sleuther
02-22-2012, 10:23 AM
It's interesting he remembers things from the past so clearly, so definitely, but when it comes to events surrounding the murder, his demeanor takes on an almost ethereal, dreamy quality--I can't put my finger on it. He (feigns IMO) confusion, vulnerability, a victim state. It's so strange. "I don't, I don't...I don't remember..."

Yeah, I noticed that too. That's when his 'I'm too upset to remember' act starts to come into play. I don't believe he ever formed an emotional attachment to MY.

Turnadot
02-22-2012, 10:23 AM
Yes but it's not a fair comparison, you know his back story.
Not when I first watched his testimony. I was brand spanking new to the case.

octobermoon
02-22-2012, 10:23 AM
Cameraman needs to be more careful!! Just saw a glimpse of the Jury again.

octobermoon
02-22-2012, 10:25 AM
Another one? JT?

gracielee
02-22-2012, 10:25 AM
Julie Tyndall on the side. I wonder why she was never called to the stand. I would have loved to hear from her. I know who she is, and I bet her southern family is just horrified by all this.

waltzingmatilda
02-22-2012, 10:26 AM
This mock juror dies not find JLY believable. He is a salesman who reminds me so much of first hubby who was in sales and lied just for the sport of it.

MOO

wm

ETA I am not insinuating that all persons in sales are narcissitic liars. I just see alot of familiar traits which is giving me flashbacks.

twirlygurl
02-22-2012, 10:27 AM
I know how much money my husband makes. My husband knows how much money I make.

Just the Fax
02-22-2012, 10:29 AM
BH really botched this golden opportunity.
She was obviously unprepared and it showed.
This could have been a slam dunk.

cityslick
02-22-2012, 10:30 AM
This cross is horrible BTW.

luckyme
02-22-2012, 10:31 AM
This cross is horrible BTW.

Yes i agree!!!! I dont care for this lady! This time will be different i bet. moo

cityslick
02-22-2012, 10:32 AM
Yes i agree!!!! I dont care for this lady! This time will be different i bet. moo

It's almost like if they get a guilty verdict this time, it will be despite her, not because of her.

Velouria
02-22-2012, 10:34 AM
This mock juror dies not find JLY believable. He is a salesman who reminds me so much of first hubby who was in sales and lied just for the sport of it.

MOO

wm

ETA I am not insinuating that all persons in sales are narcissitic liars. I just see alot of familiar traits which is giving me flashbacks.

Nailed it, matilda!

JY seems the epitome of the used car salesman, IMO. He may be able to sell icewater to Eskimos, but I ain't buying his performance. :snooty:

heidisams
02-22-2012, 10:34 AM
Oh geesh... I see what you guys have been saying about the prosecutions cross!!!! And I've only seen a few minutes.... No wonder the jury hung, this is horrible!

cityslick
02-22-2012, 10:37 AM
This is ridiculous, all she's doing is having him repeat testimony during direct.

ohiogirl
02-22-2012, 10:38 AM
Yes but it's not a fair comparison, you know his back story.

but, they do. they have seen the mistresses' testimony. jmo

Madeleine74
02-22-2012, 10:39 AM
BH should have been spanked by CW after this terrible job. Then forced to write on a white board 500 times, "I will learn how to do a proper cross exam," then forced to watch hours of video of great female prosecutors doing cross exams (Linda Drane Burdick, Kelly Siegler, etc), then sent to a speech therapist/coach to learn not to say ''ummm...ummm..uhh.."

PoppyMcTwist
02-22-2012, 10:39 AM
Alright, I was speaking with someone about this yesterday, and they stated that during the testimony yesterday it was revealed that the same sole was also used in (2) other "cheaper" models of shoes Hushpuppy produced and that he could not testify to how many of those were available.

Is this accurate? I have not gotten a chance to watch yesterday's testimony, but this may lessen the impact of the 195 figure we've been bandying about.

The number 195 was brown leather orbitals only. This does not include:

any and all black leather & black suede orbitals.

knock-off shoes (outsole was not patented)

a short boot with same outsole, sold for 1 year, but not sold at DSW

any and all Sealy's

any and all Belleville's

The outsole was sold to their wholesale division, Internationally and in US, but Riha did not have information regarding which big retail outlets sold Sealy's. He said most are sold from smaller, independent, neighborhood type stores.

when asked if HP made more Sealy's than Orbitals, Riha again did not have that information.

As global director of HP, Riha could not positively identify JY's shoes in CB video as the Orbitals. He said they had similar characteristics and were not inconsistent with Orbitals.

ohiogirl
02-22-2012, 10:40 AM
So he lost two jobs because of the internet vigilantes after him? Couldn't have possibly been because these two companies, oh, I don't know, didn't want to employ a cold-blooded killer? Nah, you're probably right Jason, that couldn't be part of their reasons.

because it is never his fault

heidisams
02-22-2012, 10:40 AM
This is ridiculous, all she's doing is having him repeat testimony during direct.

I know right? She's not challenging him on anything!

luckyme
02-22-2012, 10:42 AM
This is ridiculous, all she's doing is having him repeat testimony during direct.


Im sure they have watched this cross over and over! I wonder if they will let her do it again if he takes the stand. I wouldnt!!! moo

Just the Fax
02-22-2012, 10:42 AM
BH must be embarrassed sitting through this right now.

Madeleine74
02-22-2012, 10:43 AM
Oh and given a thesaurus to learn different phrases than "in regards to" {drink!}

She should be embarrassed at this. I'm embarrassed for her.

dgfred
02-22-2012, 10:43 AM
I know right? She's not challenging him on anything!

They seemed to me to be in shock that he testified. :maddening:

gracielee
02-22-2012, 10:43 AM
It's always been *okay* for him to be a momma's boy. But he sure didn't want Michelle to have a close relationship with her mom. Yet it was Michelle who needed her mom more and more *because* her husband was such a jerk to her. Michelle's words to her therapist will haunt me, 'when I have sex with my husband it always feels like a rape.'

Turnadot
02-22-2012, 10:43 AM
I can only imagine how you guys felt watching this appalling cross in the first trial: confused and ticked off!! That's how I would have felt.

Boodles
02-22-2012, 10:44 AM
This is so painful. Couldn't they have just played the direct testimony, omitting the cross? This hurts Becky's credibility to this jury.

waltzingmatilda
02-22-2012, 10:44 AM
Nailed it, matilda!

JY seems the epitome of the used car salesman, IMO. He may be able to sell icewater to Eskimos, but I ain't buying his performance. :snooty:

:floorlaugh:

cityslick
02-22-2012, 10:44 AM
They seemed to me to be in shock that he testified. :maddening:

That's no excuse. As a prosecutor you should always be prepared for the defendant to testify.

Grammy Jean
02-22-2012, 10:45 AM
This is ridiculous, all she's doing is having him repeat testimony during direct.

From what I recall she only has one effective line of questioning when she prefaces with "Were you working on your marriage when" Coming soon

cityslick
02-22-2012, 10:45 AM
This is so painful. Couldn't they have just played the direct testimony, omitting the cross? This hurts Becky's credibility to this jury.

I agree, playing this part does nothing to help the PT here. Maybe they are forced to play the thing in it's entirety.

gracielee
02-22-2012, 10:45 AM
Im sure they have watched this cross over and over! I wonder if they will let her do it again if he takes the stand. I wouldnt!!! moo

I think this cross is probably used by law schools across the nation as to how NOT TO cross examine an alleged murderer. :maddening:

waltzingmatilda
02-22-2012, 10:45 AM
PT asked 'do you remember being at your apt in charlotte?

JLY No maam.

PT You don't remember ever being at your apt in Charlotte?

JLY I'm sorry, I answered before you finished your question, please continue. (paraphrased)

dgfred
02-22-2012, 10:46 AM
That's no excuse. As a prosecutor you should always be prepared for the defendant to testify.

I wasn't making an excuse... just my observation.

Just the Fax
02-22-2012, 10:46 AM
Based on this pathetic cross performance alone, BH should have been pulled from the retrial.

fifteen89
02-22-2012, 10:47 AM
BH should have been spanked by CW after this terrible job. Then forced to write on a white board 500 times, "I will learn how to do a proper cross exam," then forced to watch hours of video of great female prosecutors doing cross exams (Linda Drane Burdick, Kelly Siegler, etc), then sent to a speech therapist/coach to learn not to say ''ummm...ummm..uhh.."

Maybe she shouldn't have been chosen for the first trial and/or the re-trial. It sure is hard to listen to her. Give me LDB any day over this one.

DrDigger
02-22-2012, 10:48 AM
Long time following this case...Oh my, this is like watching Legally Blond... no ill regard to R. Witherspoon!

Grammy Jean
02-22-2012, 10:48 AM
That's no excuse. As a prosecutor you should always be prepared for the defendant to testify.

To be fair no one had heard anything from JY about anything. SO BH had exactly one lunch break to prepare to cross examine. I still wish the judge had called an early close to court that day and let BH do her cross the next morning.

NCEast
02-22-2012, 10:48 AM
JY appears to have had the upper hand throughout this entire cross examination. He is the force, he has the last word about everything BH asks, he corrects her, she isn't bearing down on him whatsoever or following through with her line of questioning. I think listening and watching this time makes me more angry than it did the first time. Last year I continued to think there will be a big bang coming--and it never did. Sure hope the prosecution has worked out all the kinks and will kick his butt regarding his testimony this go round.

luckyme
02-22-2012, 10:49 AM
Hes walking all over her!!! moo :waitasec::waitasec:

twirlygurl
02-22-2012, 10:49 AM
If my spouse had been murdered by some unknown assailant...and if I were on the stand talking about fights that we had. I would be mortified testifying how angry I was with him. I would be heart broken that the love of my life was gone forever and the memories that I have are arguments. I see that JY still blames her for all of these arguments.

Turnadot
02-22-2012, 10:50 AM
I wonder what this jury is thinking right now! I pray the PT has something really good up their sleeves, IMO.

fifteen89
02-22-2012, 10:50 AM
Ya know, regardless of how "badly" we think she's doing, Jason's lies are still his lies. He makes it sooooooooo hard to believe him. jmt

Boodles
02-22-2012, 10:50 AM
Notice the difference between direct and cross. During direct, Jason's speech was stilted. In cross, he is not regurgitating rehearsed fake responses, and so his speech flows like a normal person's.

And notice how he's subtly getting agitated with Becky, you can hear the veiled snarl in his responses from time to time. And he's STILL ANGRY WITH MICHELLE over stupid crap like who rode with who and she lied about a message! This is so insane.

NCEast
02-22-2012, 10:50 AM
Based on this pathetic cross performance alone, BH should have been pulled from the retrial.


I agree. She must have a previous track record that is brilliant, otherwise I can't understand why/how she was ever put on this case to begin with. She is very, very weak.

Just the Fax
02-22-2012, 10:51 AM
Hindsight being 20-20, David Saacks should have handled this cross.
A man to man encounter would have been much been more effective.
Jay is a pro at dominating and controlling women...including BH.

octobermoon
02-22-2012, 10:51 AM
What a guy. NOT

cityslick
02-22-2012, 10:51 AM
Hes walking all over her!!! moo :waitasec::waitasec:

Exactly. He's got forceful, firm answers and there is no followup, like she throws a questions at him, he answers it with conviction and she slinks back into her box of questions.

Turnadot
02-22-2012, 10:53 AM
To be fair no one had heard anything from JY about anything. SO BH had exactly one lunch break to prepare to cross examine. I still wish the judge had called an early close to court that day and let BH do her cross the next morning.
OTOH, she heard a lot during the trial, and still this cross was pathetic; he pretty much owned her. There's no valid reason for that. I'm appalled.

That said, sitting through the humiliation of this being replayed shows her dedication to nailing this SOB.

IMO

Tipstaff
02-22-2012, 10:53 AM
JY is smart. He doesn't contradict anything he knows there has been testimony regarding.

His not speaking to the police was so beneficial to him and very detrimental to the prosecution.

Amazing

snowshuze
02-22-2012, 10:53 AM
Notice the difference between direct and cross. During direct, Jason's speech was stilted. In cross, he is not regurgitating rehearsed fake responses, and so his speech flows like a normal person's.

And notice how he's subtly getting agitated with Becky, you can hear the veiled snarl in his responses from time to time. And he's STILL ANGRY WITH MICHELLE over stupid crap like who rode with who and she lied about a message! This is so insane.
Yep. You can hear it.

Wolfpack
02-22-2012, 10:53 AM
Long time following this case...Oh my, this is like watching Legally Blond... no ill regard to R. Witherspoon!

Elle Woods was effective ;)

fran
02-22-2012, 10:55 AM
Did he just deny having sex with that other woman at their home?

fran

NCB
02-22-2012, 10:56 AM
He's disrespectful and obnoxious.

octobermoon
02-22-2012, 10:56 AM
Another woman????

snowshuze
02-22-2012, 10:56 AM
Gettin' snippy. Back and forth.

Madeleine74
02-22-2012, 10:56 AM
True, his lies don't change even if the questions being asked are weak.

As to the excuse they (the state) didn't know he would take the stand I say "no excuses." They should have had a dream list of 500+ questions they wanted to ask. They should have had a couple ADAs going through the questions as he testified, to find and check off the questions that would relate to his direct testimony.

Linda Drane Burdick had such a list ready in case Casey Anthony took the stand! She's also able to think quickly on her feet, which I think is absolutely essential.

Tipstaff
02-22-2012, 10:57 AM
Did he just deny having sex with that other woman at their home?

fran

He took the DA's question to be 'the other woman's house' not MY's or his house.

otto
02-22-2012, 10:57 AM
I think the prosecution has made an excellent case for adultery.

fifteen89
02-22-2012, 10:57 AM
JY is smart. He doesn't contradict anything he knows there has been testimony regarding.

His not speaking to the police was so beneficial to him and very detrimental to the prosecution.

Amazing

And he knows that, doesn't he? He thinks he's played/playing the perfect chess match. I sure hope not.....I'm holding out for a surprise ending just for Jason.

PoppyMcTwist
02-22-2012, 10:58 AM
JY appears to have had the upper hand throughout this entire cross examination. He is the force, he has the last word about everything BH asks, he corrects her, she isn't bearing down on him whatsoever or following through with her line of questioning. I think listening and watching this time makes me more angry than it did the first time. Last year I continued to think there will be a big bang coming--and it never did. Sure hope the prosecution has worked out all the kinks and will kick his butt regarding his testimony this go round.

But on the bright side, BH gave the jury the chance to see how JY acts when questioned or confronted. As you said...he is the force, he has the last word. He takes the upper hand very quickly.
It could not have been easy for Michelle.

IMO

luckyme
02-22-2012, 10:58 AM
Where in the heck was brooke and julie????

Turnadot
02-22-2012, 10:58 AM
True, his lies don't change even if the questions being asked are weak.

As to the excuse they (the state) didn't know he would take the stand I say "no excuses." They should have had a dream list of 500+ questions they wanted to ask. They should have had a couple ADAs going through the questions as he testified, to find and check off the questions that would relate to his direct testimony.

Linda Drane Burdick had such a list ready in case Casey Anthony took the stand! She's also able to think quickly on her feet, which I think is absolutely essential.
God how I would pay big money to watch Kelly Siegler cross this POS.

twirlygurl
02-22-2012, 10:59 AM
Liar, liar, pants on fire.

fran
02-22-2012, 11:00 AM
He has an answer for everything. Everyone else is wrong or lying. It' didn't happen.

What a guy.

NOT!
fran

heidisams
02-22-2012, 11:00 AM
[/CODE]Notice the difference between direct and cross. During direct, Jason's speech was stilted. In cross, he is not regurgitating rehearsed fake responses, and so his speech flows like a normal person's.

And notice how he's subtly getting agitated with Becky, you can hear the veiled snarl in his responses from time to time. And he's STILL ANGRY WITH MICHELLE over stupid crap like who rode with who and she lied about a message! This is so insane.

ITA... You are exactly right!!!! Well said.

Turnadot
02-22-2012, 11:02 AM
I've seen Kelly Siegler in action (on TV) and there's no way he would have dominated her during cross. Just no way.

fran
02-22-2012, 11:02 AM
He didn't fight for custody of CY because of money.

Yeah, COA was more important than having custody of his daughter, is the bottom line.

JMHO
fran

Madeleine74
02-22-2012, 11:03 AM
BIG LIE: "didn't have the financial resources to fight the legal custody issue"

Ummm nope. Mom was able to put up $900K worth of property. He had a 401K fund. There was plenty of money!

How much does it cost to show up and do a depo? A few thousand at most?

fifteen89
02-22-2012, 11:03 AM
I'm wondering how many times he needed to take a drink of water during cross vs direct. As badly as some think she's doing, she's still bothering Jason.

janesdean
02-22-2012, 11:03 AM
He has an answer for everything. Everyone else is wrong or lying. It' didn't happen.

What a guy.

NOT!
fran

Or he can't remember !

evelyn24
02-22-2012, 11:03 AM
Hindsight being 20-20, David Saacks should have handled this cross.
A man to man encounter would have been much been more effective.
Jay is a pro at dominating and controlling women...including BH.

Please tell me you all are watching the first trial on video and re-discussing the first time BH cross examined JY.
Please tell me this isn't happening again.

Boodles
02-22-2012, 11:04 AM
JY is smart. He doesn't contradict anything he knows there has been testimony regarding.

His not speaking to the police was so beneficial to him and very detrimental to the prosecution.

Amazing

He is very smart. He sits in court taking constant notes - he shows no emotion but is paying extreme diligent attention to everything. There is no doubt in my mind he knows this case word for word, and every bit of evidence to the nth degree, better than his attorneys.

I would not be surprised if he testifies again. I think he has comebacks for everything. I bet he wants to, but I wonder if the defense will let him. Although it's ultimately his choice...

Grammy Jean
02-22-2012, 11:04 AM
True, his lies don't change even if the questions being asked are weak.

As to the excuse they (the state) didn't know he would take the stand I say "no excuses." They should have had a dream list of 500+ questions they wanted to ask. They should have had a couple ADAs going through the questions as he testified, to find and check off the questions that would relate to his direct testimony.

Linda Drane Burdick had such a list ready in case Casey Anthony took the stand! She's also able to think quickly on her feet, which I think is absolutely essential.

I love love love Linda, and I am not at all a fan of BH in this case but to be fair look at all the ammunition LDB had collected over the years to prepare for the chance that CA would take the stand. JY had said nothing to anyone before he testified. BH heard it that morning and had to do her cross after lunch. A lot to digest. I just hope and pray PT are armed and ready this time with their lists power points etc. to get justice for MY, RY and the Fishers.

gracielee
02-22-2012, 11:05 AM
BIG LIE: "didn't have the financial resources to fight the legal custody issue"

Ummm nope. Mom was able to put up $900K worth of property. He had a 401K fund. There was plenty of money!

How much does it cost to show up and do a depo? A few thousand at most?

He & momma had plenty of money for all those trips/vacations they took, though.

evelyn24
02-22-2012, 11:06 AM
Gah. I've been so busy and missed the start of the retrial. Let me back read.

fifteen89
02-22-2012, 11:06 AM
I bet he called her a b-word or other choice name every single time he reached for that cup or took a drink.

Turnadot
02-22-2012, 11:06 AM
Please tell me you all are watching the first trial on video and re-discussing the first time BH cross examined JY.
Please tell me this isn't happening again.
First trial video

waltzingmatilda
02-22-2012, 11:06 AM
JY appears to have had the upper hand throughout this entire cross examination. He is the force, he has the last word about everything BH asks, he corrects her, she isn't bearing down on him whatsoever or following through with her line of questioning. I think listening and watching this time makes me more angry than it did the first time. Last year I continued to think there will be a big bang coming--and it never did. Sure hope the prosecution has worked out all the kinks and will kick his butt regarding his testimony this go round.

This is surreal for me because of similarities between JLY and ex. TMI to deflect, last word, correcting her, etc. It makes me plumb dizzy to listen to him!

I can relate to this female prosecutor. I'll bet she was mentally exhausted afterwards.

I am watching for the first time and feeling angry myself.

MOO

wm

luckyme
02-22-2012, 11:07 AM
I've seen Kelly Siegler in action (on TV) and there's no way he would have dominated her during cross. Just no way.

Isnt she the texas lawyer???

MrsWendy
02-22-2012, 11:08 AM
Hindsight being 20-20, David Saacks should have handled this cross.
A man to man encounter would have been much been more effective.
Jay is a pro at dominating and controlling women...including BH.

I don't think the problem is that JY was able to dominate BH. The problem is that BH kept trying to catch JY in a lie, he would answer with a seemingly reasonable explanation, and then she would move on to another question without challenging any of his responses.

heidisams
02-22-2012, 11:09 AM
His body language is even different in cross than it was in direct. He's leaned forward, right up to the microphone, like fire away baby... and he's throwing it right back at her... She needs to slow down, breathe, and get control of this cross....He's cunning....scarey how smooth and effortless these lies are flowing!

Turnadot
02-22-2012, 11:09 AM
Isnt she the texas lawyer???
She worked for the State of Texas, yes, IIRC. She does consulting now too, and IMO, the PT should have hired her to show them how to cross like her - a barracuda. She's amazing.

IMO

Boodles
02-22-2012, 11:09 AM
"Yes maam, as has already been testified...." - he is disrespectful toward Becky. This is his real personality.

Velouria
02-22-2012, 11:10 AM
It's not just her umms and uhhs and weak questioning - it's her seeming lack of emotion and those loooong pauses that leave the jury with time to study the ceiling tiles in-between questions. Makes her seem unprepared and inexperienced.

Madeleine74
02-22-2012, 11:10 AM
Isnt she the texas lawyer???

She's an ex-prosecutor from TX, now in private practice. You can see videos of her in action on YouTube. Also, 48 hours profiled her and one of her infamous cases (the Susan Wright trial) and that full episode is online as well. She was a no-holds barred, fearless prosecutor. I personally think her videos should be required viewing for learning direct and cross.

luckyme
02-22-2012, 11:10 AM
I hope they dont put her up with the spivey guy after this. i might have to leave. :innocent: moo

tarheellvr
02-22-2012, 11:10 AM
Where do all of you think the PT is going with this? What do you think they are going to do with Slayer's testimony from first trial?

I just can't watch him.....the first go-round was bad enough.

Turnadot
02-22-2012, 11:11 AM
"Yes maam, as has already been testified...." - he is disrespectful toward Becky. This is his real personality.
What really jumps out at me, no matter how weak Holt's cross is, is that JY hates women and having to answer to one makes him see red.

IMO

luckyme
02-22-2012, 11:11 AM
Where do all of you think the PT is going with this? What do you think they are going to do with Slayer's testimony from first trial?

I just can't watch him.....the first go-round was bad enough.

They r gonna catch him!!! moo

Tipstaff
02-22-2012, 11:12 AM
He is a master at hiding behind his lawyer. I don't believe that is the intention of the law. Hide out until you sit on the witness stand.

Why wouldn't an innocent person want to help the police and duck and weave if innocent. An attorney could hold your hand as you sit with the police.

Don't think any of his lawyers' believed him.

fran
02-22-2012, 11:12 AM
So he told everyone when he arrived back that night, his attorney told him not to talk.

Now today, or in this testimony, he said he didn't get an attorney until Monday or Tuesday.

So which is it?

IMHO, HE decided not to talk. He thought he'd blow back in town and be considered a victim. It didn't go exactly as he planned, I guess. He was suspected from the get go.

JMHO
fran

janesdean
02-22-2012, 11:14 AM
that's all i have, thank you !!!!!!

luckyme
02-22-2012, 11:14 AM
She should have hammered so hard at him that he got rattled and showed his true contempt, but she didnt! moo

Just the Fax
02-22-2012, 11:14 AM
Can you believe she ended on that note???????

twirlygurl
02-22-2012, 11:14 AM
I really hope they go to break soon. I need to get some work done. :)

Boodles
02-22-2012, 11:15 AM
So he told everyone when he arrived back that night, his attorney told him not to talk.

Now today, or in this testimony, he said he didn't get an attorney until Monday or Tuesday.

So which is it?

IMHO, HE decided not to talk. He thought he'd blow back in town and be considered a victim. It didn't go exactly as he planned, I guess. He was suspected from the get go.

JMHO
fran

Yeah, it's called cowardice.

parasol
02-22-2012, 11:15 AM
This cross is like this:
"Did you kill your wife?"
"No."
"You didn't?"
"No, I didn't."
"Hmmm...[shuffles paper] Okay."
[30-second pause while consulting notes]

ncsu95
02-22-2012, 11:15 AM
To be fair no one had heard anything from JY about anything. SO BH had exactly one lunch break to prepare to cross examine. I still wish the judge had called an early close to court that day and let BH do her cross the next morning.

It's no excuse. They should have had a list of questions prepared well ahead of time on the chance that he would testify. There is absolutely no excuse for being caught off-guard the way they were.

Madeleine74
02-22-2012, 11:16 AM
Lawyers are to make sure your rights are protected. They don't say "you can never talk to anyone at anytime about anything." That's a lie, IMHO. They tell you what your legal rights are and what you do and don't have to do. They advise.

Just the Fax
02-22-2012, 11:17 AM
Jay is now in his element....salesman role.

dmaxphil
02-22-2012, 11:17 AM
So he told everyone when he arrived back that night, his attorney told him not to talk.

Now today, or in this testimony, he said he didn't get an attorney until Monday or Tuesday.

So which is it?

IMHO, HE decided not to talk. He thought he'd blow back in town and be considered a victim. It didn't go exactly as he planned, I guess. He was suspected from the get go.

JMHO
fran

No. Story has always been that friends told him of the LE's questions and that he was a suspect. Told him not to talk until he had an attorney.

This is video from 1st trial.

Maybe he watched a video like this.. ttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6wXkI4t7nuc

Turnadot
02-22-2012, 11:18 AM
There's no excuse for JY refusing to cooperate with LE. None. Take a lawyer along by all means, but don't just sit doing nothing to help after your spouse and unborn baby were brutally murdered!

IMO

heidisams
02-22-2012, 11:19 AM
He is a master at hiding behind his lawyer. I don't believe that is the intention of the law. Hide out until you sit on the witness stand.

Why wouldn't an innocent person want to help the police and duck and weave if innocent. An attorney could hold your hand as you sit with the police.

Don't think any of his lawyers' believed him.

Yep. He sat back and waited to see what evidence they came up with against him, and then got his story straight!

Madeleine74
02-22-2012, 11:19 AM
Can you believe she ended on that note???????

That was the very point I wanted to race down to the DA's office, grab BZ by the ear, drag him into the courtroom and make him do the cross exam. At least he would have done an effective cross (or at least an aggressive one).

Then, to save the taxpayers of Wake County, I would have put myself in contempt of court, gotten my own restraining order, marched up to the bailiff and hauled myself off to jail.

Boodles
02-22-2012, 11:19 AM
No. Story has always been that friends told him of the LE's questions and that he was a suspect. Told him not to talk until he had an attorney.

This is video from 1st trial.

Maybe he watched a video like this.. ttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6wXkI4t7nuc

His friends telling him to get a lawyer is NOT the same as saying your lawyer advised you not to speak.

fifteen89
02-22-2012, 11:19 AM
I don't think the problem is that JY was able to dominate BH. The problem is that BH kept trying to catch JY in a lie, he would answer with a seemingly reasonable explanation, and then she would move on to another question without challenging any of his responses.

There's still that pesky problem of that humongous pile of 'seemingly reasonable explanations' that the jurors have to wade through and believe in order to discount the more likely, more direct route (imo) to get to 'he might seem slick, but he's guilty'. No matter how bad she might be, he's just not credible. jmt

gorealtors
02-22-2012, 11:19 AM
Jay is now in his element....salesman role.


Just wowing the jury with all his knowledge. Taking the focus off the real subject at hand.

Just the Fax
02-22-2012, 11:19 AM
dmaxphil,

"Told him not to talk until he had an attorney"

Key word being "until".

So why didn't he talk to LE with his attorney?

Boodles
02-22-2012, 11:20 AM
Yeah, and ambien gives me a paradoxical reaction, but for 99% of people, they crash within minutes of taking it. So BS for the rx paradoxical reaction defense.

luckyme
02-22-2012, 11:21 AM
break time

Turnadot
02-22-2012, 11:21 AM
No. Story has always been that friends told him of the LE's questions and that he was a suspect. Told him not to talk until he had an attorney.

This is video from 1st trial.

Maybe he watched a video like this.. ttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6wXkI4t7nuc
BBM

And he still didn't talk after he got one.

I understand protecting ones own rights, and TBH, I would not tell a cop the time of a day without an attorney present, but JY had legal representation, yet he still didn't help LE find the killer. I can't wrap my head around that fact.

Grammy Jean
02-22-2012, 11:21 AM
[QUOTE=dmaxphil;7626032]No. Story has always been that friends told him of the LE's questions and that he was a suspect. Told him not to talk until he had an attorney.

IMO I bet those friends wish they had never told him that, I think(MO) most of them now believe JY did it.

dmaxphil
02-22-2012, 11:21 AM
There's no excuse for JY refusing to cooperate with LE. None. Take a lawyer along by all means, but don't just sit doing nothing to help after your spouse and unborn baby were brutally murdered!

IMO

I agree. It is most definitely possible to show concern and ask LE for answers/information while protecting your rights with an attorney present.

Just the Fax
02-22-2012, 11:21 AM
"That's all I have"

:banghead:

Tipstaff
02-22-2012, 11:23 AM
His friends telling him to get a lawyer is NOT the same as saying your lawyer advised you not to speak.

What did these 'friends' suspect or know or believe?

luckyme
02-22-2012, 11:23 AM
"That's all I have"

:banghead:

Awful wasnt it!!! :back:

luckyme
02-22-2012, 11:24 AM
I think they have something though! stay tuned for after break!

Turnadot
02-22-2012, 11:24 AM
What did these 'friends' suspect or know or believe?
That LE saw JY as a suspect, I imagine.

Innocent or guilty, JY would have been a fool not to lawyer up ASAP.

IMO

dmaxphil
02-22-2012, 11:24 AM
IMO I bet those friends wish they had never told him that, I think(MO) most of them now believe JY did it.

I have a feeling you are correct. Maybe not all friends, but I think the Shaads for sure think he did it along with that other guy (Josh?) that grew up in Brevard and never really became friends til college.

Madeleine74
02-22-2012, 11:28 AM
Seeing her cross exam just made me mad all over again. Like it wasn't bad enough seeing that once already. Ay Yi Yi.

It's enough to make me turn in my fake JD from Google University in protest! harrumph!

Boodles
02-22-2012, 11:29 AM
[QUOTE=dmaxphil;7626032]No. Story has always been that friends told him of the LE's questions and that he was a suspect. Told him not to talk until he had an attorney.

IMO I bet those friends wish they had never told him that, I think(MO) most of them now believe JY did it.

Part of me wonders whether they would be standing in line waiting to tailgate with him if he is found not guilty. Except then I realize they are all grown adults with businesses now....and they wouldn't want to impact their personal economic situations by being caught associating with him. Because the stigma will remain with him if he is acquitted. It's like CA, everybody (ok 95% of us) KNOWS she did it.

I mean, Dalton didn't validate Genevieve when she ran to their room after Jason assaulted her. And Michelle is murdered and they say "hey man, get a lawyer." What kind of people were Jason's friends?

P.S. I realize this isn't fair, I don't know anything about the friends except what was gleaned from this trial.

fifteen89
02-22-2012, 11:29 AM
No. Story has always been that friends told him of the LE's questions and that he was a suspect. Told him not to talk until he had an attorney.

This is video from 1st trial.

Maybe he watched a video like this.. ttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6wXkI4t7nuc

Correcting fran? lol. I'm pretty sure she's aware.....

whic
02-22-2012, 11:30 AM
thats no sign of guilt, its smart not to talk even if you're innocent...
even though he is guilty just sayin.

Paige SC
02-22-2012, 11:32 AM
No wonder the first jury was hung. WEAK prosecution. Shamefully so.

fifteen89
02-22-2012, 11:32 AM
What did these 'friends' suspect or know or believe?

Could've been based on the questions LE was asking them....but they should know their friend, Jason. Did the friends know of his affairs?

trigger
02-22-2012, 11:32 AM
Geez....What a joke that was. Terrible just terrible. IMO

ncsu95
02-22-2012, 11:33 AM
That was the very point I wanted to race down to the DA's office, grab BZ by the ear, drag him into the courtroom and make him do the cross exam. At least he would have done an effective cross (or at least an aggressive one).

Then, to save the taxpayers of Wake County, I would have put myself in contempt of court, gotten my own restraining order, marched up to the bailiff and hauled myself off to jail.

At a minimum, he would have hammered him on his facebook or myspace page.

octobermoon
02-22-2012, 11:33 AM
I have a feeling you are correct. Maybe not all friends, but I think the Shaads for sure think he did it along with that other guy (Josh?) that grew up in Brevard and never really became friends til college.

I have only watched SS's testimony from this trial, and got the impression she really dislikes him now.

Madeleine74
02-22-2012, 11:34 AM
thats no sign of guilt, its smart not to talk even if you're innocent...
even though he is guilty just sayin.
It's smart not to talk if you don't have a lawyer to make sure your rights are fully protected. But to never talk...to not even listen? To never inquire? I don't consider that smart so much as... strange.

However, if someone has murdered their wife and is doing everything they can to not get arrested, it's the perfect strategy, isn't it?

fifteen89
02-22-2012, 11:35 AM
So is Jason watching his previous testimony like he's in a trance ala Casey? Just fascinated to see himself on screen?

Madeleine74
02-22-2012, 11:35 AM
At a minimum, he would have hammered him on his facebook or myspace page.

And even that would have been more effective than BH. Just sayin'!

parasol
02-22-2012, 11:35 AM
You know, there was just an episode on one of those non-fiction crime shows about an art student who was stabbed to death in her apartment. The evidence pointed overwhelmingly to her boyfriend, including the presence of some sort of bloodied item (I forget the details) in his bathroom. During questioning, he requested an attorney when it became obvious that the detectives suspected him. HOWEVER, he later came back with his attorney and the two of them assisted the detectives in investigating his roommate, who turned out to be the real killer. That's how it's done if you're innocent and have an attorney! You don't just clam up 100%.

gracielee
02-22-2012, 11:37 AM
What did these 'friends' suspect or know or believe?

These *friends*, supposedly friends of michelle also, thought he did it. 'Ryan Schaad's first words, god I hope jason didn't do it'.

ncsu95
02-22-2012, 11:38 AM
And even that would have been more effective than BH. Just sayin'!

Very very true.

NCB
02-22-2012, 11:38 AM
TruTv guy says jurors were taking lots if notes.