View Full Version : GUILTY OF FIRST DEGREE MURDER**verdict watch** 3-5-2012
nursebeeme
03-05-2012, 12:06 PM
There is an increased police presence here. But I saw that as the BC and first JY trial neared a verdict.
like more since you have gotten there?
tia for the updates!
gracielee
03-05-2012, 12:07 PM
So was there a second note from the jurors or not? What ever became of that?
dmaxphil
03-05-2012, 12:07 PM
My guess is to see if she was "cleaned up" or something to that nature. Perhaps the amount of time she was up and moving around?
One thing I've always wondered about that never gets mentioned... Didn't MF say she washed the pajamas once they got back to MF's house (before being confiscated by LE)? Or did I miss hear?
Lucky89
03-05-2012, 12:08 PM
Well the defense didn't dispute the testimony that the shirts were different.
Also, Spivey talked about the color too.
iucpa
03-05-2012, 12:08 PM
Iucpa.....So did the jurors look at any other of the items requested besides CY pajamas and the jeans??
Yes. They had some of the poster boards etc with them in the jury box.
SteelerGirl43
03-05-2012, 12:08 PM
IMO, its to determine/support whether she was taken and then returned to the house i.e. pajamas cleaned/laundered. JY would not have had enough time to do that, so someone else must have (whether an accomplice to JY or not).
I thought I read some where on here they had been washed.. Something about blood being on the butt on the pj's, but not visible to the naked eye... Maybe I dreamed it.....
I do know I have been having weird dreams since watching this case....
Wolfpack
03-05-2012, 12:09 PM
I have a hunch, and this is just a hunch and not based on anything other than my own head... But I think the bailiffs have a way of knowing when a verdict is coming. I think they can either tell by the jurors reactions, or perhaps they hear things through the door they stand guard near. I don't know. But I suspect they know when a verdict is near, and start putting feelers out for people to come to the courtroom.
For the BC verdict, the courtroom was packed that afternoon. And as soon as the foreman knocked on the door, it spread through the courtroom like wildfire that a verdict as in.
Madeleine74
03-05-2012, 12:09 PM
Look at how much we hang on people's perceptions and feelings of what they see in the courtroom. And I do not mean to pick on anyone, let alone iucpa, who is giving us updates, for which I am grateful. I only mention this to highlight the intuitive gift.
iucpa is using her impressions and feelings of what is going on around her and what it means. She 'feels' a verdict coming. That is her intuition and she is paying attention to what it's telling her. A certain feeling in the air, subtle body language of folks around her, etc, etc.
Right or wrong, that's the tool she is using. And that's the same sense that witnesses like SS in this case and JA and DLopez in BC were experiencing. Intuition. Something's up. Something's wrong. Something's different. Nothing anyone said specifically, but something they could feel in their gut and it got their attention, made them feel different, perhaps uneasy, perhaps scared.
I've seen people make fun of it and call it crazy but humans have it and some are tuned into it.
iucpa
03-05-2012, 12:09 PM
A few more people coming in now. Sitting in the audience.
Elisaa444
03-05-2012, 12:09 PM
*sitting on hands* know what I mean
Moo moo moo
gracielee
03-05-2012, 12:09 PM
One thing I've always wondered about that never gets mentioned... Didn't MF say she washed the pajamas once they got back to MF's house (before being confiscated by LE)? Or did I miss hear?
LE accompanied MF to Target where new clothes was purchased for CY and the clothes, except for her under shirt, were given to LE. MF said 'the undershirt was clean, and she didn't think of taking it off CY in Target, but she did give it to LE at a later date, IIRC
iucpa
03-05-2012, 12:10 PM
So was there a second note from the jurors or not? What ever became of that?
I have no idea. I was sitting here and didn't see or hear anything like that.
Wolfpack
03-05-2012, 12:11 PM
LE accompanied MF to Target where new clothes was purchased for CY and the clothes, except for her under shirt, were given to LE. MF said 'the undershirt was clean, and she didn't think of taking it off CY in Target, but she did give it to LE at a later date, IIRC
Not having kids, I don't know the answer to this. Is it odd for a 2 year old to have an undershirt with her pajamas?
SteelerGirl43
03-05-2012, 12:11 PM
Look at he neckline obvious different shirt. Again DT did not even go there this trial
I did and to me they are the same... Maybe if he were standing up in the b-day pic it would show that....
As I said its IMO and a few of my friends.. You guys say its not... Thats cool... Im not going to sit here & fight about it... You say its different & I say its not.. Lets move on instead of arguing... Thanks for the photo links...
Lucky89
03-05-2012, 12:11 PM
One thing I've always wondered about that never gets mentioned... Didn't MF say she washed the pajamas once they got back to MF's house (before being confiscated by LE)? Or did I miss hear?
The undershirt was left on CY at Target. The deputy took the pj's when MF changed CY.
twirlygurl
03-05-2012, 12:12 PM
Not having kids, I don't know the answer to this. Is it odd for a 2 year old to have an undershirt with her pajamas?
Not if it's cold. Apparently it was cold in the house.
calamityjane831
03-05-2012, 12:12 PM
Not having kids, I don't know the answer to this. Is it odd for a 2 year old to have an undershirt with her pajamas?
No it is not odd at all and especially not odd when the house was so cold.
Anybody, Is Beth Karras in the courtroom live, viewing?? Or is she tweeting from Calif.? Please??
It was stated earlier on In Session that she was in Raleigh! I saw a live feed of her outside the courthouse and her blond hair was blowing all over the place. We have TERRIBLE winds here in NC today.....35 mph!
Lori59
03-05-2012, 12:13 PM
Not having kids, I don't know the answer to this. Is it odd for a 2 year old to have an undershirt with her pajamas?
Heat was broken...maybe that is why.
aliciabal
03-05-2012, 12:13 PM
Not having kids, I don't know the answer to this. Is it odd for a 2 year old to have an undershirt with her pajamas?
It depends. Remember that the heat was out so I imagine that it would be necessary to layer in order to stay warm. On very cold nights, I would layer my kids since they ended up kicking the blanket away during the night.
iucpa
03-05-2012, 12:13 PM
Not having kids, I don't know the answer to this. Is it odd for a 2 year old to have an undershirt with her pajamas?
Not at all.
gracielee
03-05-2012, 12:13 PM
Not having kids, I don't know the answer to this. Is it odd for a 2 year old to have an undershirt with her pajamas?
The Young home did not have any heat. SS testifed 'she left her coat on the entire evening when she was there with Michelle.' The night of the murder.
Wolfpack
03-05-2012, 12:14 PM
I love that you all gave me the same exact answer. That must be a Mom common sense thing!
azwildcat
03-05-2012, 12:15 PM
Not having kids, I don't know the answer to this. Is it odd for a 2 year old to have an undershirt with her pajamas?
I don't think so, especially if it was a colder night. My daughter wears ones if the jammies have buttons, or some sort of stitching on the front.
Turnadot
03-05-2012, 12:15 PM
Not having kids, I don't know the answer to this. Is it odd for a 2 year old to have an undershirt with her pajamas?
Not when it's cold, and IIRC, their heat was out.
octobermoon
03-05-2012, 12:15 PM
*sitting on hands* know what I mean
Moo moo moo
LOL I just logged on to say that :D
SteelerGirl43
03-05-2012, 12:15 PM
Not having kids, I don't know the answer to this. Is it odd for a 2 year old to have an undershirt with her pajamas?
No, its normal....
Thank you.... I don't see the photo as being staged.... Looks like a normal b-day party shot....
Now looking @ the shirt at the b-day party and then looking at the ones in the slides of photos IMO the b-day party shot matches 59 & 60.... And that is the shirt he had on after changing, right??
One shirt is a crew neck with no collar and the other is a V-neck with bottons and collar. Although the shirt around the chest and body look similar, the neck area is completely different. NOT the same shirt. Direct evidence supports that. Unless of course he can produce a receipt from an alterations store that he had the shirt altered :what:.
Madeleine74
03-05-2012, 12:17 PM
Jurors will be going to lunch in about 13 min.
Two people can look at the same item, and their perception of the value/interpretation of the evidence may be entirely opposite. It doesn't mean either is right or wrong, just different.
So, let's agree to disagree on some items and move to the next item.
TIA
fran
tarheellvr
03-05-2012, 12:17 PM
Not having kids, I don't know the answer to this. Is it odd for a 2 year old to have an undershirt with her pajamas?
not odd at all....my children wore undershirts under everything.
Grammy Jean
03-05-2012, 12:18 PM
I thought I read some where on here they had been washed.. Something about blood being on the butt on the pj's, but not visible to the naked eye... Maybe I dreamed it.....
I do know I have been having weird dreams since watching this case....
That is what I recall about the pj's as well. I remember gracielee once posting and I agree these could be different pj's than what CY actually had on that night. My grandgirlies have several pj's that are pink and exactly alike. I believe it would be reasonable to assume when JY took off CY's diaper and cleaned her up he trashed her PJ's along with his shirt, jeans and shoes, and dressed her in clean Pj's looking like the ones she had on. That could account for only a slight amount of blood.
BrownRice
03-05-2012, 12:18 PM
Not having kids, I don't know the answer to this. Is it odd for a 2 year old to have an undershirt with her pajamas?
Not if it's cold and they need to be bundled.
Sorry for all the multiple responses! All the moms chimed in.
iucpa
03-05-2012, 12:18 PM
I hate to beat a dead horse but it is overwhelming to think how vastly different two families will feel at any moment. Sitting mere feet from them is more than I can take I cannot begin to imagine how they feel.
iucpa
03-05-2012, 12:19 PM
Judge has been out quite awhile. Same with the PT.
Stella5
03-05-2012, 12:19 PM
Not having kids, I don't know the answer to this. Is it odd for a 2 year old to have an undershirt with her pajamas?
IME it depends on how cold is it outside & inside. IIRC their heatpump was broken, so i'd definitely put a little undershirt on them to keep them warm and socks. Heck in power outages I've even put socks on with footie jammies with undershirts and/or long underwear. My guess is it was cold in that house based on how MY was dressed too... in a hoodie, long sweat pants and a tshirt. When you're preggo you're generally warmer, that was a lot of clothes to wear to bed normally IMO. One thing I do know as a mom, NO WAY would I ever give Cass adult strength tylenol rapid blast... way too risky of an overdose. That's not just your basic tylenol, but cold meds that can make you sleepy/lethargic.
iucpa
03-05-2012, 12:19 PM
As soon as I say that BH is back. Still no JS or HC.
BrownRice
03-05-2012, 12:20 PM
Jurors will be going to lunch in about 13 min.
So most likely (if a verdict today) it will be after lunch?
aliciabal
03-05-2012, 12:20 PM
I hate to beat a dead horse but it is overwhelming to think how vastly different two families will feel at any moment. Sitting mere feet from them is more than I can take I cannot begin to imagine how they feel.
Certainly both families are victims too. I can't imagine trying to wrap my mind around the knowledge that a loved one could commit murder.
Stella5
03-05-2012, 12:21 PM
It was stated earlier on In Session that she was in Raleigh! I saw a live feed of her outside the courthouse and her blond hair was blowing all over the place. We have TERRIBLE winds here in NC today.....35 mph!
You should probably go outside & smoke a cigar then... I hear it's the in thing to do :floorlaugh: sorry couldn't resist :angel:
Cammy
03-05-2012, 12:21 PM
Could someone fill me please as to what is going on?
Have we heard anything today?
I checked at WRAL and can't find a word.!
Thank you.
In Sessions has the Rutgers trial on.
Wolfpack
03-05-2012, 12:21 PM
So most likely (if a verdict today) it will be after lunch?
Likely yes. And if you remember the day of the BC verdict, the foreman dressed up, and they took a 2 hour lunch before returning with a verdict.
Madeleine74
03-05-2012, 12:21 PM
So most likely (if a verdict today) it will be after lunch?
That would be my guess since it's 12:21pm right now. But then again, I could be wrong. :waitasec:
pjcitizen
03-05-2012, 12:22 PM
Going to pick up a kiddo from pre-k... hoping the verdict comes after lunch if it's any time soon.
Wolfpack
03-05-2012, 12:22 PM
Could someone fill me please as to what is going on?
Have we heard anything today?
I checked at WRAL and can't find a word.!
Most of the jury came out and viewed evidence. The list of requested evidence was posted by Madeline around page 4. They are taking lunch at 12:30.
I hate to beat a dead horse but it is overwhelming to think how vastly different two families will feel at any moment. Sitting mere feet from them is more than I can take I cannot begin to imagine how they feel.
It's really a no win situation. Even if he's found guilty, MY's family is going to be devastated. Because even though they MAY get the verdict they want, the realization that it's a hollow victory hits full force as that verdict is read. They may have won the battle, but the suspect won the war. Michelle and Rylan are gone forever.
Heartbreaking moment, no matter what the verdict.
fran
Pocono Sleuther
03-05-2012, 12:23 PM
I'm getting very impatient. I know there's a lot of evidence to consider but each hour that ticks by makes me more and more nervous. Michelle and Rylan deserve justice.
luckyme
03-05-2012, 12:23 PM
Are the jurors dressed up?
BrownRice
03-05-2012, 12:23 PM
For purely selfish reasons, I need a verdict before 1:30!!!
w1df10wr
03-05-2012, 12:24 PM
So was there a second note from the jurors or not? What ever became of that?
I haven't seen an update about that. Anyone else?
azwildcat
03-05-2012, 12:24 PM
IME it depends on how cold is it outside & inside. IIRC their heatpump was broken, so i'd definitely put a little undershirt on them to keep them warm and socks. Heck in power outages I've even put socks on with footie jammies with undershirts and/or long underwear. My guess is it was cold in that house based on how MY was dressed too... in a hoodie, long sweat pants and a tshirt. When you're preggo you're generally warmer, that was a lot of clothes to wear to bed normally IMO. One thing I do know as a mom, NO WAY would I ever give Cass adult strength tylenol rapid blast... way too risky of an overdose. That's not just your basic tylenol, but cold meds that can make you sleepy/lethargic.
BBM (this does mean bolded by me, right? that's what I'm using it for at this moment anyway!) I have to fully agree with this. I usually run cold, especially in the winters here, and all winter I've been wearing a tank and the lightest, typically worn in summer, jammy pants and I'm still warm. So it must have been chilly in the house.
Judge has been out quite awhile. Same with the PT.
Oh, I don't know if this has been asked and answered.
How is the jury dressed today? Same type of clothing you've seen them in before? Or a little more dressed up?
tia
fran
Grammy Jean
03-05-2012, 12:26 PM
Jury is now requesting:
Lunch break @ 12:30pm
inventory of items in JY luggage (judge said this does not exist)
pic of JY in cracker barrel
jeans
autopsy rpt
usa today
initial MBR photos
CY PJs shirt & pants
pics of meds (CY room)
pic of HP imprints w/plastic flap
big map of va/nc
hotel 1st floor diagram
photo of back of explorer showing all luggage
Cammy, this what jury requested and then they were brought back into court to view this.
iucpa
03-05-2012, 12:27 PM
Are the jurors dressed up?
No. Which is a good point. I remember too the BC foreman being dressed up. You'd think if thy were that close Friday they'd do that today.
Side note - Jason just left with Collins.
Madeleine74
03-05-2012, 12:28 PM
I saw this in the BC case. While there's justice for the family and friends of the victim (in the case of a guilty verdict), there can never be closure. Their loved one remains dead. The reality of getting back to life...a life that no longer includes their murdered loved one must feel hollow and there is no longer any external distraction.
Relief, yes. Happiness, no. Closure, no. But hopefully justice.
Cammy
03-05-2012, 12:28 PM
Most of the jury came out and viewed evidence. The list of requested evidence was posted by Madeline around page 4. They are taking lunch at 12:30.
Thanks Wolfpack,
Ok, I will go back and look for items asked.
:eek:
rockin10
03-05-2012, 12:28 PM
I can't believe how much THIS case has captivated me. I have a nervous stomach awaiting this verdict. Hoping and praying that some measure of justice is delivered to the Fisher family and of course Michelle and Rylan.
SteelerGirl43
03-05-2012, 12:29 PM
That is what I recall about the pj's as well. I remember gracielee once posting and I agree these could be different pj's than what CY actually had on that night. My grandgirlies have several pj's that are pink and exactly alike. I believe it would be reasonable to assume when JY took off CY's diaper and cleaned her up he trashed her PJ's along with his shirt, jeans and shoes, and dressed her in clean Pj's looking like the ones she had on. That could account for only a slight amount of blood.
No, I took it as the pj's had been washed & put back on her... That you couldn't see the blood with the naked eye... As I said maybe I dreamed it.. I've been having weird dreams... Last wk I dreamed of someone being murdered, but couldn't tell who or how... Then I dreamed of my teeth falling out & when some fell out the roots came with it & they were very long.. LOL!!! Weird!!
Wolfpack
03-05-2012, 12:29 PM
Thanks Wolfpack,
Ok, I will go back and look for items asked.
:eek:
Grammy Jean just posted it on this page. Should save you time!
Cammy
03-05-2012, 12:30 PM
Cammy, this what jury requested and then they were brought back into court to view this.
Oh my gosh, thank you, Grammy Jean.
Wow, they sure are working!!
OMG, there was never a list of inventory taken from Jason's lugagge?
Pocono Sleuther
03-05-2012, 12:30 PM
As soon as I say that BH is back. Still no JS or HC.
Are you there iucpa? I assume so from your posts. Wow. How are the Fishers holding up?
gracielee
03-05-2012, 12:30 PM
That is what I recall about the pj's as well. I remember gracielee once posting and I agree these could be different pj's than what CY actually had on that night. My grandgirlies have several pj's that are pink and exactly alike. I believe it would be reasonable to assume when JY took off CY's diaper and cleaned her up he trashed her PJ's along with his shirt, jeans and shoes, and dressed her in clean Pj's looking like the ones she had on. That could account for only a slight amount of blood.
That's what I've always thought too grammy. With three girls, we had lots of pairs of pink & white jammies. And pink is my granddaughters favorite color, so all her jammies are pink. In fact I especially look for everything I purchase for her to be pink. Happens to be my favorite color too, we compare our pink toenail polish. :) First thing she did when she was here on Saturday was to pull off her shoes and socks to show me her pink toenails.
azwildcat
03-05-2012, 12:31 PM
No, I took it as the pj's had been washed & put back on her... That you couldn't see the blood with the naked eye... As I said maybe I dreamed it.. I've been having weird dreams... Last wk I dreamed of someone being murdered, but couldn't tell who or how... Then I dreamed of my teeth falling out & when some fell out the roots came with it & they were very long.. LOL!!! Weird!!
For what it's worth, this sounds very familiar to me! The first part, not your teeth dream! ;) But I don't know if that's from the actual trial, or reading on here, I haven't kept close enough tabs on it this time around.
Pocono Sleuther
03-05-2012, 12:31 PM
Are the jurors dressed up?
Great question. Lord I hope so!
Cammy
03-05-2012, 12:31 PM
Do you guys know this is a lot like the stuff the Juors from the first trial requested?
:eek:
That is what I recall about the pj's as well. I remember gracielee once posting and I agree these could be different pj's than what CY actually had on that night. My grandgirlies have several pj's that are pink and exactly alike. I believe it would be reasonable to assume when JY took off CY's diaper and cleaned her up he trashed her PJ's along with his shirt, jeans and shoes, and dressed her in clean Pj's looking like the ones she had on. That could account for only a slight amount of blood.
I agree! I don't know how closely SS paid attention to those jammies on 11/2/06 beyond just their basic color and if they were short sleeved, long sleeved or a nightgown. My girls have tons of pink jammies.
aliciabal
03-05-2012, 12:32 PM
Jurors should be taking lunch now. I wonder if we will get a verdict today. Any thoughts from those who are in court?
Pocono Sleuther
03-05-2012, 12:33 PM
I can't believe how much THIS case has captivated me. I have a nervous stomach awaiting this verdict. Hoping and praying that some measure of justice is delivered to the Fisher family and of course Michelle and Rylan.
I'm always nervous when I become so invested in a case. My first was Laci Peterson. My God how I cried during that trial. The hell these families go through! I'm a wreck right with you.
Lori59
03-05-2012, 12:34 PM
No. Which is a good point. I remember too the BC foreman being dressed up. You'd think if thy were that close Friday they'd do that today.
Side note - Jason just left with Collins.
My mind is all over the place sitting here.....No word about note from jury.. all attorneys not in room and now JY leaves with Collins..Any chance of a plea?
Luna24
03-05-2012, 12:36 PM
I hate to beat a dead horse but it is overwhelming to think how vastly different two families will feel at any moment. Sitting mere feet from them is more than I can take I cannot begin to imagine how they feel.
I can only imagine iucpa...one family's life will be changed greatly after that verdict is read unless it's a hung jury. I would feel the same way you do...
thanks for your updates!! they are great! :)
luckyme
03-05-2012, 12:37 PM
My mind is all over the place sitting here.....No word about note from jury.. all attorneys not in room and now JY leaves with Collins..Any chance of a plea?
I think they all r eating! I dont think there would be a plea this late in the game. moo
fromageball
03-05-2012, 12:37 PM
What have you learned about sociopaths that leads you to that conclusion?
Sociopaths get wound up about many things; they have feelings.
IMO
My conclusion is that Gracie didn't interact with JY at all.
The person Gracie interacted with doesn't fit what we know of JY's personality/behavior from testimony, so I have doubts that she interacted with Jason Young when there is nothing else to corroborate her testimony.
Cammy
03-05-2012, 12:37 PM
Wait, I can't get over this one thing.
There was never an inventory list of items found in Jason's luggage?
How can that be?
So, the shirt/sweater could HAVE been there?
:confused:
Oh my gosh, thank you, Grammy Jean.
Wow, they sure are working!!
OMG, there was never a list of inventory taken from Jason's lugagge?
There was no list of luggage inventory entered into evidence....doesn't mean there wasn't one. But the luggage itself is in evidence, so a list isn't really necessary if the jury wants to know what was in the luggage. They can just request to view his luggage! IMO
Grammy Jean
03-05-2012, 12:38 PM
Do they have to bring the jury back in to open court to go on the record that they are taking their lunch break?
Turnadot
03-05-2012, 12:38 PM
My conclusion is that Gracie didn't interact with JY at all.
The person Gracie interacted with doesn't fit what we know of JY's personality/behavior from testimony, so I have doubts that she interacted with Jason Young when there is nothing else to corroborate her testimony.
Fair enough.
fifteen89
03-05-2012, 12:39 PM
*sitting on hands* know what I mean
Moo moo moo
Yes, I do. ;)
iucpa
03-05-2012, 12:41 PM
Not sure why the delay. JS still absent. Everyone else is here. All attorneys, families, etc.
Wonder if this means the jury is close if they expected to lunch at 12:30?
Grammy Jean
03-05-2012, 12:41 PM
Wait, I can't get over this one thing.
There was never an inventory list of items found in Jason's luggage?
How can that be?
So, the shirt/sweater could HAVE been there?
:confused:
They had testimony and the actual items from the luggage laid out for the jury to see the contents of that luggage. I was in court the day the PT had an evidence view for the jury. Many of the jurors spent a lot of time viewing the luggage contents that were on display.
the couger
03-05-2012, 12:41 PM
Oh my gosh, thank you, Grammy Jean.
Wow, they sure are working!!
OMG, there was never a list of inventory taken from Jason's luggage?Glad to see you Cammy.. My thoughts exactely... BIG red flag went up for me, I still can not believe a written list was not taken of everything in his luggage. How important is that, much to me...I also think maybe the jury was looking for a TOD on the autopsy report, but that is only my opinion. :banghead:
I wonder if that 2nd note suggested that the jury was having a hard time coming up with a unanimous verdict???
Wait, I can't get over this one thing.
There was never an inventory list of items found in Jason's luggage?
How can that be?
So, the shirt/sweater could HAVE been there?
:confused:
I'm wondering if there's a sceptic in the jury room that doubts clothes are missing. An inventory list would have cleared that up.
gracielee
03-05-2012, 12:44 PM
Beth Karas just mentioned the second knock on the door, but nothing more came of it.
Boodles
03-05-2012, 12:44 PM
So most likely (if a verdict today) it will be after lunch?
All weekend I had a feeling that they had already made up their mind on Friday (that 4:50 thing seemed weird to me). I felt they would come back, spend some time in the morning, and then come back after lunch with a verdict. And I felt this would not be favorable for the State.
I hope I'm wrong. I'm really trying to have faith in the system. I was cautiously heartened by their request for evidence.
iucpa
03-05-2012, 12:44 PM
The one juror I felt was a NG base on appearance and behavior turned out to be an alternate. So was the girl go couldn't have been 21.
rockin10
03-05-2012, 12:44 PM
I LOVE Beth Karas! Listening to her on In Session right now.
Cammy
03-05-2012, 12:45 PM
IN SESSIONS is reporting that the Jurors DID NOT go to lunch, they are still in the deliberations room at this time.
Beth is talking about the jeans.
nursebeeme
03-05-2012, 12:45 PM
Not sure why the delay. JS still absent. Everyone else is here. All attorneys, families, etc.
Wonder if this means the jury is close if they expected to lunch at 12:30?
does it seem like something is afoot?
(yes, they requested 1230 lunch)
iucpa
03-05-2012, 12:45 PM
I can't decide if the cougher is coughing, sneezing, clearing her throat, or some combo of te above.
MyBelle
03-05-2012, 12:45 PM
Wait, I can't get over this one thing.
There was never an inventory list of items found in Jason's luggage?
How can that be?
So, the shirt/sweater could HAVE been there?
:confused:
No inventory list of every other piece of luggage and items in the car, either. So, yes the sweater could have been there. I think the more intelligent jurors will have a difficult time concluding something is missing if they didn't inventory and waited over a year--and after he moved--to look for it.
JMO
Turnadot
03-05-2012, 12:46 PM
Maybe they are close to a verdict and want to work through lunch...?
w1df10wr
03-05-2012, 12:46 PM
The one juror I felt was a NG base on appearance and behavior turned out to be an alternate. So was the girl go couldn't have been 21.
Thank you for the updates!
hindsight2020
03-05-2012, 12:46 PM
Even if luggage evidence is available, lack of a Luggage Inventory sheet bugs me.
aliciabal
03-05-2012, 12:46 PM
I wonder if that 2nd note suggested that the jury was having a hard time coming up with a unanimous verdict???
If its hung again, I hope the prosecutors don't retry for awhile. Maybe JY will do something or reveal something incriminating in the meantime. That's been known to happen. The case wasn't strong enough at first but over time, relationships changed and the truth was revealed by some scorned person.
the couger
03-05-2012, 12:46 PM
They had testimony and the actual items from the luggage laid out for the jury to see the contents of that luggage. I was in court the day the PT had an evidence view for the jury. Many of the jurors spent a lot of time viewing the luggage contents that were on display.
To request a list, maybe the jurors wanted to make a comparison to see if all was presented to them. MOO
Stella5
03-05-2012, 12:46 PM
So the note was they didn't want to break for lunch yet... awesome! Hopefully they're getting closer. Many, many, many kudos to them for giving their juror duties the seriousness they deserve. Many prayers are with them as they go through this process.
Boodles
03-05-2012, 12:47 PM
Glad to see you Cammy.. My thoughts exactely... BIG red flag went up for me, I still can not believe a written list was not taken of everything in his luggage. How important is that, much to me...I also think maybe the jury was looking for a TOD on the autopsy report, but that is only my opinion. :banghead:
There is not an inventory ENTERED INTO EVIDENCE. That is not to say it does not exist. The testimony about the items is on record.
Cammy
03-05-2012, 12:48 PM
All weekend I had a feeling that they had already made up their mind on Friday (that 4:50 thing seemed weird to me). I felt they would come back, spend some time in the morning, and then come back after lunch with a verdict. And I felt this would not be favorable for the State.
I hope I'm wrong. I'm really trying to have faith in the system. I was cautiously heartened by their request for evidence.
I think the 4:50 dismissal time may have only been because of either traffic and or some bad weather that was coming in.
Pocono Sleuther
03-05-2012, 12:48 PM
Maybe they are close to a verdict and want to work through lunch...?
I hope so. I can't take one more day of this!
gracielee
03-05-2012, 12:48 PM
No inventory list of every other piece of luggage and items in the car, either. So, yes the sweater could have been there. I think the more intelligent jurors will have a difficult time concluding something is missing if they didn't inventory and waited over a year--and after he moved--to look for it.
JMO
Beth said the jury spent 3 hours during the trial examing the contents of the car. Though no actual written inventory was entered into evidence at the trial, there was testimony about it, and the jurors came down from the jury box to examine all of it.
the couger
03-05-2012, 12:48 PM
I can't decide if the cougher is coughing, sneezing, clearing her throat, or some combo of te above.
Why, why, why??? But all of the above...LOL
fifteen89
03-05-2012, 12:49 PM
Do they have to bring the jury back in to open court to go on the record that they are taking their lunch break?
Yeah, are they at lunch yet?
SteelerGirl43
03-05-2012, 12:49 PM
They had testimony and the actual items from the luggage laid out for the jury to see the contents of that luggage. I was in court the day the PT had an evidence view for the jury. Many of the jurors spent a lot of time viewing the luggage contents that were on display.
I really should be doing work for the fundraisers, but this is way more exciting... I think what she means is & correct me if I'm wrong Cammy.... There should have been an IL of what was found in the luggage when LE started looking at it.... Thats a normal thing for LE to do.... I'm sorry but no IL raises a red flag to me.....
Nana46
03-05-2012, 12:51 PM
That light color shirt at the hotel looks like a Henley shirt to me...we have several and they have like three buttons down the front.
MyBelle
03-05-2012, 12:51 PM
Beth said the jury spent 3 hours during the trial examing the contents of the car. Though no actual written inventory was entered into evidence at the trial, there was testimony about it, and the jurors came down from the jury box to examine all of it.
There should have been an inventory of everything IN the car. There was a variety of owners and some items were returned. Without an inventory, testimony was at best from memory from almost 6 years ago. I sure wouldn't find such sloppiness conclusive something is still missing or was ever missing.
JMO
iucpa
03-05-2012, 12:52 PM
Holy delay Batman! Don't they know I'm hungry?
nursebeeme
03-05-2012, 12:52 PM
So the note was they didn't want to break for lunch yet... awesome! Hopefully they're getting closer. Many, many, many kudos to them for giving their juror duties the seriousness they deserve. Many prayers are with them as they go through this process.
did Beth K. say this on InSession?
Boodles
03-05-2012, 12:52 PM
If its hung again, I hope the prosecutors don't retry for awhile. Maybe JY will do something or reveal something incriminating in the meantime. That's been known to happen. The case wasn't strong enough at first but over time, relationships changed and the truth was revealed by some scorned person.
Thanks for this. I agree. But that raises a legal Q, doesn't it? The defendant has the right to a speedy trial. BUT I know the DA/State reviewed whether or not to retry JY after the last trial, and they decided yes.
For a legal person, can they decide NOT to retry him (if it's a hung verdict) for now and leave it hanging like that? Because if they leave it hanging, doesn't it violate right to speedy trial? What would his status be if not acquitted AND not re-tried at this time?
SteelerGirl43
03-05-2012, 12:54 PM
If its hung again, I hope the prosecutors don't retry for awhile. Maybe JY will do something or reveal something incriminating in the meantime. That's been known to happen. The case wasn't strong enough at first but over time, relationships changed and the truth was revealed by some scorned person.
True.... Eventually a person will mess up again... Just watch CA will do something & be caught ...
Cammy
03-05-2012, 12:54 PM
I really should be doing work for the fundraisers, but this is way more exciting... I think what she means is & correct me if I'm wrong Cammy.... There should have been an IL of what was found in the luggage when LE started looking at it.... Thats a normal thing for LE to do.... I'm sorry but no IL raises a red flag to me.....
Morning SG43 !
I am more than shocked.
I don't know what to think.
How could they not make an itemized list?
Cammy
03-05-2012, 12:55 PM
did Beth K. say this on InSession?
The only thing that Beth said was that the Jurors were still in the deliberations room talking, and had not left for lunch YET.
luckyme
03-05-2012, 12:55 PM
did Beth K. say this on InSession?
ryan said they havent had a break for lunch yet.:eek::eek:
Stella5
03-05-2012, 12:56 PM
did Beth K. say this on InSession?
Beth & Ryan guessing that's what it was about since they haven't broken for lunch. I'd say they're probably right.
iucpa
03-05-2012, 12:56 PM
Putting evidence back into bags. I'd swear I can hear the jury deliberating. Unless its officers talking in the hallway.
aliciabal
03-05-2012, 12:56 PM
Thanks for this. I agree. But that raises a legal Q, doesn't it? The defendant has the right to a speedy trial. BUT I know the DA/State reviewed whether or not to retry JY after the last trial, and they decided yes.
For a legal person, can they decide NOT to retry him (if it's a hung verdict) for now and leave it hanging like that? Because if they leave it hanging, doesn't it violate right to speedy trial? What would his status be if not acquitted AND not re-tried at this time?
The state can avoid this by not filing charges again until they are ready to try him. Since he isn't charged and there is no statute of limitations on murder, his rights wouldn't be violated. At least, with my Yahoo.com law degree I think this is how it works :)
fifteen89
03-05-2012, 12:56 PM
Ryan just said "they're supposedly on lunch break right now....' So which is it?
And so did Vinnie after the break.
Cammy
03-05-2012, 12:56 PM
In Sessions is now reporting that the Jurors HAVE gone to lunch,
SteelerGirl43
03-05-2012, 12:56 PM
I'm wondering if there's a sceptic in the jury room that doubts clothes are missing. An inventory list would have cleared that up.
ME ME ME!! {raising hand}
iucpa
03-05-2012, 12:57 PM
Activity. I think we're about to break.
distracted 1976
03-05-2012, 12:57 PM
Activity. I think we're about to break.
So thankful to have your first hand account! Thanks button just wasn't enough!
nursebeeme
03-05-2012, 12:58 PM
Reply Retweet Favorite · Open
The note was simply that they would break for lunch at 1 pm. This morning they requested a 12:30 lunch but that..http://twitter.com/#!/bethkaras
gracielee
03-05-2012, 12:58 PM
Yea! Vinnie is back, thank goodness.
Cammy
03-05-2012, 12:59 PM
I'm wondering if there's a sceptic in the jury room that doubts clothes are missing. An inventory list would have cleared that up.
Exactly...............hold on tight skeptical juror !!
Grammy Jean
03-05-2012, 12:59 PM
abc live feed up
octobermoon
03-05-2012, 12:59 PM
I can't decide if the cougher is coughing, sneezing, clearing her throat, or some combo of te above.
Tell her/him to cough in her/his elbow ;) I caught it all the way out here in the west!
Me=:what: achoo
iucpa
03-05-2012, 12:59 PM
JS back. We're on.
Lori59
03-05-2012, 12:59 PM
Beth now sayin on Face book that the note said they would take lunch at 1:00
nursebeeme
03-05-2012, 12:59 PM
https://www.facebook.com/BethKarasInsession/posts/10150564400416813
Pocono Sleuther
03-05-2012, 12:59 PM
Someone remind me how long the deliberations went before coming back hung in the first trial. Please.
luckyme
03-05-2012, 01:00 PM
I think there is gonna be a verdict today!!! probally when i have to take my dog to the vet!! :seeya:
Stella5
03-05-2012, 01:00 PM
Ryan just said "they're supposedly on lunch break right now....' So which is it?
:dunno: I don't think Ryan even knows... where's Beth? Vinnie is up next & we have sound on NBC
lauriej
03-05-2012, 01:00 PM
http://www.facebook.com/BethKarasInsession
Beth Karas InSession (http://www.facebook.com/BethKarasInsession)
The note was simply that they would break for lunch at 1 pm. This morning they requested a 12:30 lunch but that changed after they spent an hour in the courtroom looking at evidence. 3 minutes ago.
Cammy
03-05-2012, 01:00 PM
Reply Retweet Favorite · Open
The note was simply that they would break for lunch at 1 pm. This morning they requested a 12:30 lunch but that..http://twitter.com/#!/bethkaras
Thanks, see how confusing things can get just over lunch !!
I am glad the Jurors are working so hard and being thorough unlike another Jury :cough: in Florida.
Jurors are definitely going on lunch break now, they need to be dismissed by the Judge officially though.
Verdict watch clock is 8:35:12
Lori59
03-05-2012, 01:00 PM
Live...
gracielee
03-05-2012, 01:00 PM
Jurors going to lunch at 1:00
SteelerGirl43
03-05-2012, 01:00 PM
Morning SG43 !
I am more than shocked.
I don't know what to think.
How could they not make an itemized list?
Hey Cammy...
Yea Im shocked also..... WTH is going on???
Not sure but I thought it was pretty normal to inventory everything...
Stella5
03-05-2012, 01:01 PM
Jurors sent a note altering their schedule saying take lunch at 1
the couger
03-05-2012, 01:01 PM
Activity. I think we're about to break.
Thank you very much for your updates. Nice to hear from someone inside the courtroom.
BTW, I just took my allergy pill.
distracted 1976
03-05-2012, 01:01 PM
While the lull... I would like to invite all you guests to come and join us! We see you dipping your toes in the water and let me tell you it is just fine! Jump on in! :seeya:
:party::balloons:
iucpa
03-05-2012, 01:01 PM
Jury just said 3-5 more minutes.
fifteen89
03-05-2012, 01:01 PM
Putting evidence back into bags. I'd swear I can hear the jury deliberating. Unless its officers talking in the hallway.
So........what are they saying?!!!!! Just kidding! Glad you're there!
Boodles
03-05-2012, 01:02 PM
Yea! Vinnie is back, thank goodness.
I love him. His dad passed away which is why he has been gone. :(
nursebeeme
03-05-2012, 01:02 PM
Hey Cammy...
Yea Im shocked also..... WTH is going on???
Not sure but I thought it was pretty normal to inventory everything...
return receipt for the warrant for the vehicle would have all of this listed I believe
not to mention all of it was entered into trial, just not in a list format.
no biggie to me...:twocents:
BrownRice
03-05-2012, 01:02 PM
Jury just said 3-5 more minutes.
3-5 mins for what?
iucpa
03-05-2012, 01:03 PM
Here we go
Stella5
03-05-2012, 01:03 PM
Judge sent Mr. Bailiff to go knock on the jury door to see if they're ready to go grab some lunch...
I kinda hope so, I need to clean the kitchen from the breakfast mess so I don't get in big trouble from the hubs for "not doing anything but watching that trial again".
aliciabal
03-05-2012, 01:03 PM
Jury just said 3-5 more minutes.
Might we have a verdict?
BrownRice
03-05-2012, 01:04 PM
Here we go
He we go for what? lunch?
the couger
03-05-2012, 01:04 PM
Hey Cammy...
Yea Im shocked also..... WTH is going on???
Not sure but I thought it was pretty normal to inventory everything...
SOP, it should have been entered into evidence with the luggage. How did the DT miss this?
Cammy
03-05-2012, 01:04 PM
Beth is going over the list of 12 things requested, and 1 was not available.
Turnadot
03-05-2012, 01:05 PM
Judge sent Mr. Bailiff to go knock on the jury door to see if they're ready to go grab some lunch...
I kinda hope so, I need to clean the kitchen from the breakfast mess so I don't get in big trouble from the hubs for "not doing anything but watching that trial again".
Well you obviously made breakfast!
:D
BrownRice
03-05-2012, 01:05 PM
URGHHHHH. Lunch break. 1 hr
Cammy
03-05-2012, 01:05 PM
He we go for what? lunch?
Yes, a 1 hour lunch break .
gitana1
03-05-2012, 01:06 PM
Cammy, this what jury requested and then they were brought back into court to view this.
Seeing that list made me hopeful until Cammy or someone else said that was the same type of stuff requested at the first trial. But it does appear they are taking it seriously.
I hope so. I can't take one more day of this!
I don't know. I think in this case, if they come back too quick, it could be an acquittal.
Thanks for this. I agree. But that raises a legal Q, doesn't it? The defendant has the right to a speedy trial. BUT I know the DA/State reviewed whether or not to retry JY after the last trial, and they decided yes.
For a legal person, can they decide NOT to retry him (if it's a hung verdict) for now and leave it hanging like that? Because if they leave it hanging, doesn't it violate right to speedy trial? What would his status be if not acquitted AND not re-tried at this time?
I'm a legal person but I don't know the answer to this (I don't do crim law except minor hearings). I think that by the time they get to trial, speedy trial rights have likely been waived. I've never heard of anyone in a major murder trial not waiving their rights. Which would mean, I think, that speedy trial rights don't kick back in or come into play again and they have time to decide whether to retry. But I can't imagine that that would be for an indefinite period. My law partner is in trial right now or I would ask. Sorry!
Cammy
03-05-2012, 01:06 PM
SOP, it should have been entered into evidence with the luggage. How did the DT miss this?
This could be big.........
Strange how the list resembles almost the same things the first Jurors were hung up on and wanted to see.
The map makes me think they are looking at all the ground he would have had to cover and all
the driving he would have has to do.
510 miles worth.
aliciabal
03-05-2012, 01:06 PM
K, that means I can catch a quick nap. I stayed up watching Grease 2 of all things. Not my best idea.
Stella5
03-05-2012, 01:07 PM
Well you obviously made breakfast!
:D
Very true! I did do one thing today, hahaha! Okay kids... I'm off to go clean that mess, throw in some laundry and maybe move the vacuum cleaner so it looks like I vacuumed, LOL! See ya in an hour!
gitana1
03-05-2012, 01:09 PM
Someone remind me how long the deliberations went before coming back hung in the first trial. Please.
Excellent question. Anybody?
BrownRice
03-05-2012, 01:09 PM
I wonder if the attorneys tell their client that based on juror evidence request this isn't looking too good, or are they always upbeat and positive regardless if they mean it?
nursebeeme
03-05-2012, 01:10 PM
Excellent question. Anybody?
10 hours at 6 and 6
2.5 more hours and hung at 8 and 4
12.5 total hours
Boodles
03-05-2012, 01:11 PM
The state can avoid this by not filing charges again until they are ready to try him. Since he isn't charged and there is no statute of limitations on murder, his rights wouldn't be violated. At least, with my Yahoo.com law degree I think this is how it works :)
But he is charged already? After the last trial, he had to post bond to get out of jail. I don't believe the charges are dismissed due to a hung jury outcome. Maybe I am making this too complicated! ;)
Wolfpack
03-05-2012, 01:12 PM
I wonder if the attorneys tell their client that based on juror evidence request this isn't looking too good, or are they always upbeat and positive regardless if they mean it?
I think most don't read into evidence requests, because it's almost always impossible to determine meaning behind them.
aliciabal
03-05-2012, 01:13 PM
But he is charged already? After the last trial, he had to post bond to get out of jail. I don't believe the charges are dismissed due to a hung jury outcome. Maybe I am making this too complicated! ;)
Good point! Perhaps the prosecutors could drop the charges and bring them again later? Perhaps gritguy could weigh in or some other legal expert?
the couger
03-05-2012, 01:14 PM
This could be big.........
Strange how the list resembles almost the same things the first Jurors were hung up on and wanted to see.
The map makes me think they are looking at all the ground he would have had to cover and all
the driving he would have has to do.
510 miles worth.Yes, very big, considering the problems that the citizens in NC have seen in their judicial system.
Wasn't withholding exculpatory evidence one of the big reasons, the ADA, was dismissed in Durham County, just Friday?
I am thinking a calculator was ask for in the request from jury. I could be wrong on that one..
Cammy
03-05-2012, 01:16 PM
I think most don't read into evidence requests, because it's almost always impossible to determine meaning behind them.
I agree.
It could very well come down to the Cracker Barrel photos too, and not just the shoes, but his demeanor, imo.
Does a man who plans on killing his wife in just hours stop at a Cracker Barrel?
Same with the hotel photos, Jason looks like someone laid back checking in and walking through the hallways.
He does not look angry, anxious or in a hurry...
JMO
LaMer
03-05-2012, 01:18 PM
I wonder if the attorneys tell their client that based on juror evidence request this isn't looking too good, or are they always upbeat and positive regardless if they mean it?
I do not know the answer to your question,
but the shot of JY on IS, he appeared very
nervous and up-tight!
imo
terminatrixator
03-05-2012, 01:19 PM
Yes, very big, considering the problems that the citizens in NC have seen in their judicial system.
Wasn't withholding exculpatory evidence one of the big reasons, the ADA, was dismissed in Durham County, just Friday?
I am thinking a calculator was ask for in the request from jury. I could be wrong on that one..
Tracey Cline is of Durham, this is in Raleigh, NC. The reason Tracey Cline lost her job in Durham was a problem she had with Judge Orlando Hudson.
fromageball
03-05-2012, 01:20 PM
Seeing that list made me hopeful until Cammy or someone else said that was the same type of stuff requested at the first trial. But it does appear they are taking it seriously.
<snip>
So the jurors requested the same list of stuff, including luggage inventory, in the first trial?
I'm really surprised the DT didn't jump all over that.
Lori59
03-05-2012, 01:20 PM
I think a lot of the items the jurors wanted to review go to JY alibi...either way..... believing him or not, seem to be focused on his alibi.
the couger
03-05-2012, 01:24 PM
Tracey Cline is of Durham, this is in Raleigh, NC. The reason Tracey Cline lost her job in Durham was a problem she had with Judge Orlando Hudson.
Thank you, but I think there were other charges against her to. I really didn't read up to much on her, because I am not from NC, but it just adds to the long list of problems, the state of NC has, over a period of years with honesty in NC judicial system. MOO
Stella5
03-05-2012, 01:25 PM
This could be big.........
Strange how the list resembles almost the same things the first Jurors were hung up on and wanted to see.
The map makes me think they are looking at all the ground he would have had to cover and all
the driving he would have has to do.
510 miles worth.
Cammy, that's kind of misleading. You cannot count his drive from Raleigh to Hillsville in the amount of miles having to be driven during the time of Midnight to 6:35 a.m. when the PT says he made it back to the HI. You have to count the drive starting at Hillsville back to Raleigh and then back to Hillsville. That's only 340 miles... very doable in 6 1/2 hours, even allowing him time to beat his wife. MOO
gracielee
03-05-2012, 01:27 PM
So the jurors requested the same list of stuff, including luggage inventory, in the first trial?
I'm really surprised the DT didn't jump all over that.
I don't recall the jurors requesting the autopsy report nor the photos of the crime scene prior to processing during the first trial. Can anyone who was here for that trial enlighten me?
Grammy Jean
03-05-2012, 01:30 PM
I agree.
It could very well come down to the Cracker Barrel photos too, and not just the shoes, but his demeanor, imo.
Does a man who plans on killing his wife in just hours stop at a Cracker Barrel?
Same with the hotel photos, Jason looks like someone laid back checking in and walking through the hallways.
He does not look angry, anxious or in a hurry...
JMO
I do not think Ted Bundy looked like he was ready to murder his victims minutes before he did, that is how he was able to lure his victims with his laid back apparent harmless demeanor.
hindsight2020
03-05-2012, 01:31 PM
Items jurors requested in the first trial.
Before going to lunch Friday, the jury sent out 9 requests.
•Surveillance video from a Cracker Barrel restaurant showing Jason's shoes the day before Michelle was killed.
•Surveillance video from the Hampton Inn where Young said he was sleeping the night Michelle died
•Photos of the clothes Jason was wearing at Cassidy's third birthday party
•Crime scene photos of Cassidy's bathroom
•A photo of an emergency exit at the Hampton Inn
•A transcript of the 911 call Michelle's sister made when she found the body
•An e-mail Jason sent to his former fiancé
CB is the only one both juries requested at the onset
gracielee
03-05-2012, 01:32 PM
Thank you, but I think there were other charges against her to. I really didn't read up to much on her, because I am not from NC, but it just adds to the long list of problems, the state of NC has, over a period of years with honesty in NC judicial system. MOO
IMO that's a pretty broad statement to make. Tracy Cline was in Durham Co. whereas this trial is in Wake Co.
IIRC, this is addressed to locals here, didn't Tracy Clines problems begin when Hudson ordered her to not retry, something on that order, a child sex offender with priors? I can't recall how all this started, but I *thought* it began with that guy who molested or raped a toddler? Does anyone remember that case? I don't follow Durham Co. very closely, moreso Wake and Johnston Co's. It appeared to me, she had the support of her fellow ADA's???
Lori59
03-05-2012, 01:34 PM
Items jurors requested in the first trial.
Before going to lunch Friday, the jury sent out 9 requests.
•Surveillance video from a Cracker Barrel restaurant showing Jason's shoes the day before Michelle was killed.
•Surveillance video from the Hampton Inn where Young said he was sleeping the night Michelle died
•Photos of the clothes Jason was wearing at Cassidy's third birthday party
•Crime scene photos of Cassidy's bathroom
•A photo of an emergency exit at the Hampton Inn
•A transcript of the 911 call Michelle's sister made when she found the body
•An e-mail Jason sent to his former fiancé
CB is the only one both juries requested at the onset
Thanks! Let me stress JMO but that list is all over the place..the list of this jurors seems more organized and focused. Again. JMO
Cammy
03-05-2012, 01:35 PM
The victim is entitled to the person who murdered them to be, arrested, brought to trial and convicted.. IMO, this defendant did not murder Michelle Young and if I am correct and he is convicted, the victim has NOT received justice. MOO
:goodpost:
johnfear
03-05-2012, 01:36 PM
IMO that's a pretty broad statement to make. Tracy Cline was in Durham Co. whereas this trial is in Wake Co.
IIRC, this is addressed to locals here, didn't Tracy Clines problems begin when Hudson ordered her to not retry, something on that order, a child sex offender with priors? I can't recall how all this started, but I *thought* it began with that guy who molested or raped a toddler? Does anyone remember that case? I don't follow Durham Co. very closely, moreso Wake and Johnston Co's. It appeared to me, she had the support of her fellow ADA's???
It did. There was a simultaneous issue with a mebane man who was carrying remains in a backpack. The remains were destroyed in a way that didn't ride the statutes. The other gentleman, I don't remember the case, but I believe it involved his step-child. I'll hunt up some details for you. I keep tabs on most of the durham news.
Wolfpack
03-05-2012, 01:37 PM
IMO that's a pretty broad statement to make. Tracy Cline was in Durham Co. whereas this trial is in Wake Co.
IIRC, this is addressed to locals here, didn't Tracy Clines problems begin when Hudson ordered her to not retry, something on that order, a child sex offender with priors? I can't recall how all this started, but I *thought* it began with that guy who molested or raped a toddler? Does anyone remember that case? I don't follow Durham Co. very closely, moreso Wake and Johnston Co's. It appeared to me, she had the support of her fellow ADA's???
Tracey Cline has had a pattern of behavior not befitting her station as District Attorney (she is not an ADA). She withheld exculpatory evidence in trials, which Judge Hudson wrote into his opinion on the case he dismissed. She did not follow protocol in a case where the defendant was found with the bones of the victim in his backpack (she allowed the remains to be cremated without testing), and she waged a public war against Judge Hudson. All of this went into her removal. It also came out that she played a part in the Duke Lacrosse fiasco. However, it likely would not have been as swift had she not publicly denounced the decisions of Judge Hudson.
Here is a great article on Cline: http://www.newsobserver.com/2012/03/04/1902895/for-cline-recent-attack-is-in.html
indicat
03-05-2012, 01:37 PM
Items jurors requested in the first trial.
Before going to lunch Friday, the jury sent out 9 requests.
•Surveillance video from a Cracker Barrel restaurant showing Jason's shoes the day before Michelle was killed.
•Surveillance video from the Hampton Inn where Young said he was sleeping the night Michelle died
•Photos of the clothes Jason was wearing at Cassidy's third birthday party
•Crime scene photos of Cassidy's bathroom
•A photo of an emergency exit at the Hampton Inn
•A transcript of the 911 call Michelle's sister made when she found the body
•An e-mail Jason sent to his former fiancé
CB is the only one both juries requested at the onset
Not exactly the same list as today :rolleyes:
MD MOMMY
03-05-2012, 01:38 PM
I'm beginning to get impatient and nervous all at the same time. I think I need a Calgon moment!
hindsight2020
03-05-2012, 01:38 PM
Thanks! Let me stress JMO but that list is all over the place..the list of this jurors seems more organized and focused. Again. JMO
I agree, just that I am reading erroneous information posted on this board stating that that both lists were similar, when in fact they were not, only one item request was the same on the list, namely, Cracker Barrel photo.
Not that one can interpret anything from it, but just setting the record straight.
Bottle Cap
03-05-2012, 01:38 PM
I do not think Ted Bundy looked like he was ready to murder his victims minutes before he did, that is how he was able to lure his victims with his laid back apparent harmless demeanor.
I think Ted Bundy also probably ate.
gracielee
03-05-2012, 01:40 PM
It did. There was a simultaneous issue with a mebane man who was carrying remains in a backpack. The remains were destroyed in a way that didn't ride the statutes. The other gentleman, I don't remember the case, but I believe it involved his step-child. I'll hunt up some details for you. I keep tabs on most of the durham news.
That's right, I remember the guy riding around with body parts in his back-pack! IIRC, he was never charged with a murder, was he? And yes, I didn't want to say 'step-child', but that was the way I remembered it too. Some guy with perhaps a two year old little girl?
Bottle Cap
03-05-2012, 01:40 PM
I agree, just that I am reading erroneous information posted on this board stating that that both lists were similar, when in fact they were not, only one item request was the same on the list, namely, Cracker Barrel photo.
Not that one can interpret anything from it, but just setting the record straight.
Thank you. "Same type of stuff" turned into "same list of stuff" somewhere along the way, and needed correcting.
johnfear
03-05-2012, 01:41 PM
That's right, I remember the guy riding around with body parts in his back-pack! IIRC, he was never charged with a murder, was he? And yes, I didn't want to say 'step-child', but that was the way I remembered it too. Some guy with perhaps a two year old little girl?
http://www.wral.com/news/local/story/10004288/
dmaxphil
03-05-2012, 01:41 PM
I think Ted Bundy also probably ate.
Not at Cracker Barrel. :)
Paige SC
03-05-2012, 01:43 PM
can someone post the list of requested items from the jury in the first trial AND the items requested today from the current jury (in the same post)? Please?
oakayfine
03-05-2012, 01:43 PM
Do you guys know this is a lot like the stuff the Juors from the first trial requested?
:eek:
The current list request is much different than the 1st trial. There are a couple of things that are similar but many are not even close.
Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Verdict Watch
Cammy
03-05-2012, 01:43 PM
I agree! I hate when people comment rudely about jurors!!!
Agree too.
The jurors in the last trial had some very unkind comments made about them, especially the foreperson.
The comments that he was a bully and strongarmed and coerced the other jurors were very upsetting.
:(
Luna24
03-05-2012, 01:44 PM
Items jurors requested in the first trial.
Before going to lunch Friday, the jury sent out 9 requests.
•Surveillance video from a Cracker Barrel restaurant showing Jason's shoes the day before Michelle was killed.
•Surveillance video from the Hampton Inn where Young said he was sleeping the night Michelle died
•Photos of the clothes Jason was wearing at Cassidy's third birthday party
•Crime scene photos of Cassidy's bathroom
•A photo of an emergency exit at the Hampton Inn
•A transcript of the 911 call Michelle's sister made when she found the body
•An e-mail Jason sent to his former fiancé
CB is the only one both juries requested at the onset
thanks hindsight - I was just checking back in the old thread for that info myself. :) they had only requested a white board and markers before that request...
for anyone who wants to see that old thread where jury requests started coming in, it's here:
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=141579&page=5
the couger
03-05-2012, 01:45 PM
That's right, I remember the guy riding around with body parts in his back-pack! IIRC, he was never charged with a murder, was he? And yes, I didn't want to say 'step-child', but that was the way I remembered it too. Some guy with perhaps a two year old little girl?
How horrible and this guy gets away with this, due to a DA? How sad, sounds like the evidence was there, why would she not follow the guide lines to the T?
Glad for society and NC, she is gone...
SteelerGirl43
03-05-2012, 01:45 PM
Judge sent Mr. Bailiff to go knock on the jury door to see if they're ready to go grab some lunch...
I kinda hope so, I need to clean the kitchen from the breakfast mess so I don't get in big trouble from the hubs for "not doing anything but watching that trial again".
Hehehe!! Just say you were watching ur form of football.. Works for me .. Hubby just walks away...
Stella5
03-05-2012, 01:46 PM
Jury is now requesting:
Lunch break @ 12:30pm
inventory of items in JY luggage (judge said this does not exist)
pic of JY in cracker barrel
jeans
autopsy rpt
usa today
initial MBR photos
CY PJs shirt & pants
pics of meds (CY room)
pic of HP imprints w/plastic flap
big map of va/nc
hotel 1st floor diagram
photo of back of explorer showing all luggage
Bumping today's list of requested evidence & last trials request...
Jury requests:
still-frame photo or frozen video of JLY at Cracker Barrel as he leaves counter, clearly showing shoes.
still-frame photo of JLY in HI
photo of clothes defendant was wearing during CY 3rd birthday party
crime scene photos of CY bathroom
photos of Hampton Inn emergency exit from a distance
911 transcript
LabCorp reports
Ebay and MapQuest documents
Email to GC
Cammy
03-05-2012, 01:46 PM
Last time CY's pj's were not included for the jury to look at.
I found that strange and I see this as positive for Jason.
SteelerGirl43
03-05-2012, 01:47 PM
SOP, it should have been entered into evidence with the luggage. How did the DT miss this?
Inventory. An officer must prepare and verify an inventory of any property seized. The officer must do so in the presence of another officer and the person from whom, or from whose premises, the property was taken. If either one is not present, the officer must prepare and verify the inventory in the presence of at least one other credible person. In a case involving the seizure of electronic storage media or the seizure or copying of electronically stored information, the inventory may be limited to describing the physical storage media that were seized or copied. The officer may retain a copy of the electronically stored information that was seized or copied.
(C) Receipt. The officer must give a copy of the warrant and a receipt for the property taken to the person from whom, or from whose premises, the property was taken or leave a copy of the receipt at the place where the officer took the property.
Wolfpack
03-05-2012, 01:47 PM
How horrible and this guy gets away with this, due to a DA? How sad, sounds like the evidence was there, why would she not follow the guide lines to the T?
Glad for society and NC, she is gone...
Exactly. That is the problem with prosecutors like Tracey Cline. When you break the rules of professional conduct, and criminal procedure, innocent people are convicted, and guilty people walk free with a bag of bones on their back (alright, that may be a bit of hyperbole, but the point stands).
oakayfine
03-05-2012, 01:49 PM
I agree, just that I am reading erroneous information posted on this board stating that that both lists were similar, when in fact they were not, only one item request was the same on the list, namely, Cracker Barrel photo.
Not that one can interpret anything from it, but just setting the record straight.
I agree and posted a link to the first trial list request too - before I came across yours. It is frustrating to read the stuff since many take it as gospel.
Stella5
03-05-2012, 01:51 PM
Hehehe!! Just say you were watching ur form of football.. Works for me .. Hubby just walks away...
That wouldn't work for me... I'm a die-hard Saints fan & a Rams fan (even though they stink!) Luckily we both love football and he knows from August - Superbowl nothing gets done in this house on a Sunday (or Monday Nights, and the occasional Thursday night). He has never understood my interest in true crime, just like I'll never understand how he can watch golf on TV.
gracielee
03-05-2012, 01:51 PM
http://www.wral.com/news/local/story/10004288/
So if I read this correctly, it was State Law that required remains to be released to the family after autopsy. Not Tracy Clines decision. And a murder indictment had already been obtained?
Cammy
03-05-2012, 01:53 PM
One thing I've always wondered about that never gets mentioned... Didn't MF say she washed the pajamas once they got back to MF's house (before being confiscated by LE)? Or did I miss hear?
Yes, she did, but blood still showed up.
Luna24
03-05-2012, 01:53 PM
I agree, just that I am reading erroneous information posted on this board stating that that both lists were similar, when in fact they were not, only one item request was the same on the list, namely, Cracker Barrel photo.
Not that one can interpret anything from it, but just setting the record straight.
I agree as well which is why I went searching for the info too..it's a little frustrating because people are in and out while they are at work, etc and people can take that as a fact when it's not true. Also, people repeating over and over the outrage at their not being an inventory of luggage taken, when others have stressed in multiple posts that just because something wasn't entered in as evidence, does not mean there wasn't one made. :(
It would be nice if people clarified that they weren't sure but they think ....blah blah blah..just MHO..
johnfear
03-05-2012, 01:54 PM
So if I read this correctly, it was State Law that required remains to be released to the family after autopsy. Not Tracy Clines decision. And a murder indictment had already been obtained?
I am not sure. I was showing you so A) you could see how crazy stuff gets 'round here and B) the accusations that were flying were a little bit :what: and
that I am not so sure they should have let that guy go. (He may still be on a psych hold, even now)
gracielee
03-05-2012, 01:54 PM
How horrible and this guy gets away with this, due to a DA? How sad, sounds like the evidence was there, why would she not follow the guide lines to the T?
Glad for society and NC, she is gone...
She did follow the law. State Law requires the remains be returned to the family *after* the autopsy.
nursebeeme
03-05-2012, 01:54 PM
Yes, she did, but blood still showed up.
wait... are you saying that MF washed the pajamas? I don't recall that. I thought the officer went with them to target and took the pajamas into evidence after she bought the new set of clothing:waitasec:
Cammy
03-05-2012, 01:55 PM
I did and to me they are the same... Maybe if he were standing up in the b-day pic it would show that....
As I said its IMO and a few of my friends.. You guys say its not... Thats cool... Im not going to sit here & fight about it... You say its different & I say its not.. Lets move on instead of arguing... Thanks for the photo links...
The defense never tried to say they were either the same or different shirts.
They showed some photos and that was that.
Cammy
03-05-2012, 01:56 PM
wait... are you saying that MF washed the pajamas? I don't recall that. I thought the officer went with them to target and took the pajamas into evidence after she bought the new set of clothing:waitasec:
Yes , Nurse, she testifed she took home either the bottoms or the tops and washed them, she later gave them to LE.
Luminol would still find blood even after the washing.
MyBelle
03-05-2012, 01:57 PM
Yes, she did, but blood still showed up.
If she had blood on her bottoms, it would have transferred onto the bed and also been noticeable. The fact that it did not means her clothes were washed before, not after, LE was called. Very astute for a juror to notice.
JMO
SteelerGirl43
03-05-2012, 01:58 PM
That wouldn't work for me... I'm a die-hard Saints fan & a Rams fan (even though they stink!) Luckily we both love football and he knows from August - Superbowl nothing gets done in this house on a Sunday (or Monday Nights, and the occasional Thursday night). He has never understood my interest in true crime, just like I'll never understand how he can watch golf on TV.
Same here except we are huge Steeler fans... When the Steelers are on nothing is done.. I dont even answer the phone..LOL!!!
Wolfpack
03-05-2012, 01:58 PM
She did follow the law. State Law requires the remains be returned to the family *after* the autopsy.
Here is the Judge's ruling:
Hudson ruled that Cline delayed presenting Dorman's case to the grand jury long enough so that the remains could be cremated before a judge could order that evidence in the case be preserved. Cline then misled Dorman's attorney for months, the judge ruled, making him believe that the State Medical Examiner's Office still had a portion of the remains and that the rest had been buried...
"The state and its agents intentionally facilitated, assisted and enabled the permanent destruction of material and favorable evidence in Mr. Dorman's cases," the judge wrote in his ruling.
terminatrixator
03-05-2012, 01:58 PM
How horrible and this guy gets away with this, due to a DA? How sad, sounds like the evidence was there, why would she not follow the guide lines to the T?
Glad for society and NC, she is gone...
It was not because of the DA! The woman's remains were eventually returned to her family for burial. The family decided to cremate those remains. It was because LE released the remaining bones for burial and defense was not afforded the opportunity to examine said remains.
This is my problem with information that consistently gets passed around.
SteelerGirl43
03-05-2012, 01:59 PM
Yes , Nurse, she testifed she took home either the bottoms or the tops and washed them, she later gave them to LE.
Luminol would still find blood even after the washing.
So did they not notice blood on the pj before they took them???
Wolfpack
03-05-2012, 02:00 PM
It was not because of the DA! The woman's remains were eventually returned to her family for burial. The family decided to cremate those remains. It was because LE released the remaining bones for burial and defense was not afforded the opportunity to examine said remains.
This is my problem with information that consistently gets passed around.
Please read the Judge's ruling. He ruled the DA was at fault for not affording the defense an opportunity to examine the remains. The reasoning is included in an above post.
gracielee
03-05-2012, 02:00 PM
Yes , Nurse, she testifed she took home either the bottoms or the tops and washed them, she later gave them to LE.
Luminol would still find blood even after the washing.
No she didn't testify to that. MF testified that she turned the pajama tops and bottoms over to LE in the Target women's room after purchasing new clothes to put on CY. She testifed that she left the childs undershirt on because it appeared to be clean, was under the pajama top, and they didn't see anyting on the undershirt. Because she couldn't go back into the house to obtain other garments for CY to wear, a member of LE accompanied her to Target to purchase new clothes for the child, and took possession of the pajamas in the Target store restroom, where MF put the newly purchased clothes on CY.
Cammy
03-05-2012, 02:01 PM
It's really a no win situation. Even if he's found guilty, MY's family is going to be devastated. Because even though they MAY get the verdict they want, the realization that it's a hollow victory hits full force as that verdict is read. They may have won the battle, but the suspect won the war. Michelle and Rylan are gone forever.
Heartbreaking moment, no matter what the verdict.
fran
That is the one of the best posts I have ever read.
:heart:
Cammy
03-05-2012, 02:02 PM
So did they not notice blood on the pj before they took them???
Apparently not........it was very light .
I know she said she took them home and washed them, she said that in the first trial.
gracielee
03-05-2012, 02:03 PM
I am not sure. I was showing you so A) you could see how crazy stuff gets 'round here and B) the accusations that were flying were a little bit :what: and
that I am not so sure they should have let that guy go. (He may still be on a psych hold, even now)
It's extremely aggravating the way rumors get spread on this forum. And then taken to be facts.
indicat
03-05-2012, 02:04 PM
No she didn't testify to that. MF testified that she turned the pajama tops and bottoms over to LE in the Target women's room after purchasing new clothes to put on CY. She testifed that she left the childs undershirt on because it appeared to be clean, was under the pajama top, and they didn't see anyting on the undershirt. Because she couldn't go back into the house to obtain other garments for CY to wear, a member of LE accompanied her to Target to purchase new clothes for the child, and took possession of the pajamas in the Target store restroom, where MF put the newly purchased clothes on CY.
Thank you, having some trouble following posts with misinformation in them, especially when following this trial for the first time. This is what I thought I remembered.
pjcitizen
03-05-2012, 02:05 PM
wait... are you saying that MF washed the pajamas? I don't recall that. I thought the officer went with them to target and took the pajamas into evidence after she bought the new set of clothing:waitasec:
You are correct. MF did NOT wash the pjs. I think she may have washed the undershirt.
the couger
03-05-2012, 02:06 PM
Yes , Nurse, she testified she took home either the bottoms or the tops and washed them, she later gave them to LE.
Luminol would still find blood even after the washing.
I also thought I remembered her testifying in the first trial she took CY clothes home and washed them and turned them over to LE afterward. I was shocked when I heard her testify this time she had changed her in the BR at Target and turn them over to LE, all except, her under shirt. I was afraid to bring it up due to it being thought I was posting negative about the victims sister.. I am glad it has been brought out and maybe someone can post the two links in same post of the testimony...
nursebeeme
03-05-2012, 02:06 PM
Apparently not........it was very light .
I know she said she took them home and washed them, she said that in the first trial.
I was referring to this trial... the one that this jury is deliberating
Grammy Jean
03-05-2012, 02:08 PM
Apparently not........it was very light .
I know she said she took them home and washed them, she said that in the first trial.
No MF said she washed the undershirt. LE took PJ's from her in the bathroom of Target where new clothes had been purchased for CY
pjcitizen
03-05-2012, 02:09 PM
I agree as well which is why I went searching for the info too..it's a little frustrating because people are in and out while they are at work, etc and people can take that as a fact when it's not true. Also, people repeating over and over the outrage at their not being an inventory of luggage taken, when others have stressed in multiple posts that just because something wasn't entered in as evidence, does not mean there wasn't one made. :(
It would be nice if people clarified that they weren't sure but they think ....blah blah blah..just MHO..
"Thanks" is not enough. I'd like to give an Amen!
terminatrixator
03-05-2012, 02:09 PM
Please read the Judge's ruling. He ruled the DA was at fault for not affording the defense an opportunity to examine the remains.
I thought LE was in possession of the bones and released them, in the end it comes down to the DA. From what I know Judge Orlando Hudson had a habit of ruling against Tracey Cline and a lot of Tracey's cases ended up this way, with a murderer walking around free. Thanks for the correction :)
This doesn't negate the fact that this wasn't a conspiracy by the DA's office to cover up something or hide evidence, it was a mistake and now a murderer is walking around free, who will most likely kill again.
Mama-cita
03-05-2012, 02:09 PM
If there is a link to Meredith ever testifying anywhere that she washed CY pajamas I sure would appreciate it being posted. Not sure why Law enforcement would allow potential evidence to be destroyed. Especially when said evidence would have come off a living witness of the crime. This forum is getting so filled with information and it's very frustrating!!!
SteelerGirl43
03-05-2012, 02:10 PM
I also thought I remembered her testifying in the first trial she took CY clothes home and washed them and turned them over to LE afterward. I was shocked when I heard her testify this time she had changed her in the BR at Target and turn them over to LE, all except, her under shirt. I was afraid to bring it up due to it being thought I was posting negative about the victims sister.. I am glad it has been brought out and maybe someone can post the two links in same post of the testimony...
I hope someone post the links to MF testimony from the 1st trial..
MyBelle
03-05-2012, 02:10 PM
Apparently not........it was very light .
I know she said she took them home and washed them, she said that in the first trial.
yes, I do recall that she said at the first trial that she washed the pjs
hindsight2020
03-05-2012, 02:10 PM
I agree as well which is why I went searching for the info too..it's a little frustrating because people are in and out while they are at work, etc and people can take that as a fact when it's not true. Also, people repeating over and over the outrage at their not being an inventory of luggage taken, when others have stressed in multiple posts that just because something wasn't entered in as evidence, does not mean there wasn't one made. :(
It would be nice if people clarified that they weren't sure but they think ....blah blah blah..just MHO..
I concur. . . I too, took note of the some posts stating that an 'inventory list was not taken', although it was not introduced as evidence, no one here has any direct knowledge if it was in fact done or not. Posting information like this borders on irresponsible.
gracielee
03-05-2012, 02:11 PM
johnfear, did you find anythihg about the child rapist. His was the case that really PO'd me.
Cammy
03-05-2012, 02:14 PM
yes, I do recall that she said at the first trial that she washed the pjs
I know, I have it in my notes.
gracielee
03-05-2012, 02:14 PM
She did follow the law. State Law requires the remains be returned to the family *after* the autopsy.
If anyone is interested in reading the entire article, it is in johnfears post #436. Thank you, jf.
SteelerGirl43
03-05-2012, 02:15 PM
I concur. . . I too, took note of the some posts stating that an 'inventory list was not taken', although it was not introduced as evidence, no one here has any direct knowledge if it was in fact done or not. Posting information like this borders on irresponsible.
Not really.... Its no different when the G side people speculate also...
MyBelle
03-05-2012, 02:15 PM
I concur. . . I too, took note of the some posts stating that an 'inventory list was not taken', although it was not introduced as evidence, no one here has any direct knowledge if it was in fact done or not. Posting information like this borders on irresponsible.
An inventory list would be part of the chain of custody. If it isn't available it is because it was never done.
JMO
indicat
03-05-2012, 02:16 PM
May I ask why if this was testimony from the first trial the defense did not jump all over this change in testimony? Would this not be significant? As far as I know they did not so Im going with what was testified to in this trial.
Grammy Jean
03-05-2012, 02:16 PM
Will the judge bring the jury back in to announce on the record that lunch is over and they are to go back to deliberate?
MyBelle
03-05-2012, 02:17 PM
I know, I have it in my notes.
Did any LE testify at either the first or second trial that they seized CY's clothes at Target? Thanks!
oakayfine
03-05-2012, 02:17 PM
You are correct. MF did NOT wash the pjs. I think she may have washed the undershirt.
Yes, officer went with MF and her roommate to Target. She testified to this in THIS Trial. I do not recall what she testified to in the last trial but in this one, this is what she said. She washed the undershirt when she got home.
If need be, I will go back and listen to her testimony in the 1st trial too, to prove that it was never said that she washed those PJ's. If she had, the DT would have been on her like white on rice for changing testimony.
jrb0124
03-05-2012, 02:17 PM
yes, I do recall that she said at the first trial that she washed the pjs
I don't think so. Her account from the first trial appears to be the same:
http://www.wral.com/specialreports/michelleyoung/video/9703223/#/vid9703223
(53:00 mark)
Cammy
03-05-2012, 02:18 PM
Cammy, that's kind of misleading. You cannot count his drive from Raleigh to Hillsville in the amount of miles having to be driven during the time of Midnight to 6:35 a.m. when the PT says he made it back to the HI. You have to count the drive starting at Hillsville back to Raleigh and then back to Hillsville. That's only 340 miles... very doable in 6 1/2 hours, even allowing him time to beat his wife. MOO
Not really, he still had to drive 170 miles to the hotel to get there.
Then, 170 back to Raleigh and 170 back to the hotel.
aliciabal
03-05-2012, 02:18 PM
According to insession twitter, jurors are back and deliberating.
Mama-cita
03-05-2012, 02:19 PM
May I ask why if this was testimony from the first trial the defense did not jump all over this change in testimony? Would this not be significant? As far as I know they did not so Im going with what was testified to in this trial.
Defies logic doesn't it??
Madeleine74
03-05-2012, 02:19 PM
And for those confused about an INVENTORY LIST of items in JY's suitcase:
1. An inventory list of items seized from the vehicle and the suitcase was written on the search warrant returned by WCSO.
2. This paperwork (the search warrant) was not entered into evidence as part of the trial. I've never seen any search warrant entered into evidence in this or any trial I've followed.
3. JY's suitcase was opened up in front of the jury and each item found was held up and shown. The jury had ample opportunity to take notes and list each of the items as they were held up. The jury is responsible for taking notes.
4. It is not typical for 'lists' of items to be entered into evidence if those lists are not part of the state's case or the defense's case. Items are shown and discussed. The jury is free to make notes.
5. The jury can (and did) request to see the suitcase again during deliberations and look at the items that were found in the suitcase. Once again they can take notes of those items if they are so inclined.
In the Cooper trial the jury asked for a list of all witnesses. That request was denied because some witnesses were not called. They had to rely on their notes from evidence shown in court.
knicksgal1
03-05-2012, 02:20 PM
It's really a no win situation. Even if he's found guilty, MY's family is going to be devastated. Because even though they MAY get the verdict they want, the realization that it's a hollow victory hits full force as that verdict is read. They may have won the battle, but the suspect won the war. Michelle and Rylan are gone forever.
Heartbreaking moment, no matter what the verdict.
fran
I saw this in the BC case. While there's justice for the family and friends of the victim (in the case of a guilty verdict), there can never be closure. Their loved one remains dead. The reality of getting back to life...a life that no longer includes their murdered loved one must feel hollow and there is no longer any external distraction.
Relief, yes. Happiness, no. Closure, no. But hopefully justice.
I can't believe how much THIS case has captivated me. I have a nervous stomach awaiting this verdict. Hoping and praying that some measure of justice is delivered to the Fisher family and of course Michelle and Rylan.
These posts so perfectly state how I feel about most cases I follow. My heart breaks each and every case for the victim's family and friends. Their loved one is out of pain but their pain must last all their lives. The ache and just the missing of the their loved one. You hear so often a survivor talk about reaching to pick up the phone to call the one who is missing only to remember that they are gone. Just one of the small reminders that part of their heart is gone until they meet again. I am a person of faith and one of my questions one day for my Maker is why evil exists like what was done to Michelle, Laci, and all the others.
That's what I've always thought too grammy. With three girls, we had lots of pairs of pink & white jammies. And pink is my granddaughters favorite color, so all her jammies are pink. In fact I especially look for everything I purchase for her to be pink. Happens to be my favorite color too, we compare our pink toenail polish. :) First thing she did when she was here on Saturday was to pull off her shoes and socks to show me her pink toenails.
No she didn't testify to that. MF testified that she turned the pajama tops and bottoms over to LE in the Target women's room after purchasing new clothes to put on CY. She testifed that she left the childs undershirt on because it appeared to be clean, was under the pajama top, and they didn't see anyting on the undershirt. Because she couldn't go back into the house to obtain other garments for CY to wear, a member of LE accompanied her to Target to purchase new clothes for the child, and took possession of the pajamas in the Target store restroom, where MF put the newly purchased clothes on CY.
I think quite possible JY did put a similar pair of pjs on CY when he took the original ones off to take the diaper off. Thank you, gracielee, for pointing out the chain of custody on the pair that CY was wearing when MY was found.
Please dear God, let there be a verdict today and may JY never experience a moment of freedom again. It's the only justice that the Fishers and CY can receive but it does not come close to true justice.
Bottle Cap
03-05-2012, 02:20 PM
I don't think so. Her account from the first trial appears to be the same:
http://www.wral.com/specialreports/michelleyoung/video/9703223/#/vid9703223
(53:00 mark)
Thanks for that, saved a lot of people a lot of digging.
MyBelle
03-05-2012, 02:20 PM
Not really, he still had to drive 170 miles to the hotel to get there.
Then, 170 back to Raleigh and 170 back to the hotel.
if the jury is considering purchases of gas and related mileage, they have to consider the entire trip.
JMO
gracielee
03-05-2012, 02:22 PM
I don't think so. Her account from the first trial appears to be the same:
http://www.wral.com/specialreports/michelleyoung/video/9703223/#/vid9703223
(53:00 mark)
And yet the rumors continue. It's enough to make ones head spin, continually having to correct misinformation for those who are newcomers. <modsnip>
MyBelle
03-05-2012, 02:24 PM
I know, I have it in my notes.
Either MF said it or one of the cops said it. I do find it interesting that a juror wanted to see those pjs.
JMO
Stella5
03-05-2012, 02:25 PM
Not really, he still had to drive 170 miles to the hotel to get there.
Then, 170 back to Raleigh and 170 back to the hotel.
During midnight to 6:35 a.m. it is definitely not correct.
He drove from Raleigh to Hillsville, even stopping at Cracker Barrel and made it to Hillsville in a little over 3 hours. The drive to Hillsville from when he left Raleigh at 7:30 p.m. does NOT count in the number of miles he'd have to drive from Hillsville to Raleigh to murder Michelle, and then from Raleigh to Hillsville to try to solidify his alibi. I'd say MOO, but it's a fact.
MD MOMMY
03-05-2012, 02:29 PM
Last time CY's pj's were not included for the jury to look at.
I found that strange and I see this as positive for Jason.
How do you see this as a positive, in what way?
MyBelle
03-05-2012, 02:29 PM
During midnight to 6:35 a.m. it is definitely not correct.
He drove from Raleigh to Hillsville, even stopping at Cracker Barrel and made it to Hillsville in a little over 3 hours. The drive to Hillsville from when he left Raleigh at 7:30 p.m. does NOT count in the number of miles he'd have to drive from Hillsville to Raleigh to murder Michelle, and then from Raleigh to Hillsville to try to solidify his alibi. I'd say MOO, but it's a fact.
I disagree that # miles doesn't count in a trial that has gas purchases as such a critical component.
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