View Full Version : GUILTY OF FIRST DEGREE MURDER**verdict watch** 3-5-2012
nursebeeme
03-05-2012, 07:24 AM
Deliberations started last Friday at 1016 am. Today they continue.
http://www.wral.com/
http://abclocal.go.com/wtvd/livenow?id=8323913 (abc11 link)
eta: this link has a twitter update right on the complete coverage page: http://www.wral.com/specialreports/michelleyoung/?sc_int_cid=2012_02_young_trial_226
http://gothamist.com/attachments/goth_hugh/2007_05_donuts.jpg
http://www.google.com/imgres?q=donut+pictures&hl=en&client=safari&sa=X&rls=en&biw=1910&bih=883&tbm=isch&prmd=imvnse&tbnid=eGyB2HtsHQWe3M:&imgrefurl=http://gothamist.com/2007/05/07/the_donut_revol.php&docid=wOyzbhRMlLbyeM&imgurl=http://www.gothamist.com/attachments/goth_hugh/2007_05_donuts.jpg&w=350&h=262&ei=zrBUT8aDKOXi0QHfgP3VDQ&zoom=1&iact=hc&vpx=639&vpy=143&dur=756&hovh=194&hovw=260&tx=127&ty=100&sig=105464575515762118041&page=2&tbnh=127&tbnw=169&start=55&ndsp=60&ved=1t:429,r:23,s:55
nursebeeme
03-05-2012, 07:29 AM
Rule Reminder as we head to Verdict
Good morning everybody! I'm sure everyone is eagerly waiting for the defense to rest today and the jury to be sent out.
I want to remind everyone of a few basic rules:
First - a difference of opinion is NOT a TOS violation. Cheerleading for EITHER side is not a TOS violation, BUT being snarky and disrespectful about that opinion IS.
Second - if a post offends you, ALERT it. Remember, if you respond, it is on you and you may find yourself suffering the consequences for it.
Third - we are moving toward a zero tolerance policy. That means if you are snarky and rude, you may find yourself on TO.
Fourth - the mods will NOT be taking the time to send you pm's and hash it out. You will just see that you can no longer post.
Snarkyness will include avatars and siggy lines that are being used to convey messages you know you can't outright post.
Please keep in mind that ONE side, and only ONE side is going to win here, unless we end up in another stalemate. Whatever the outcome, we will have to deal with it, whether we think it is good or bad. So please keep in mind, that means one side is going to lose. Be a good sport. Don't gloat if you are on the winning side and don't pout and be mean if you are on the losing side. Brace yourselves now in case things don't go the way you want them to.
If you have questions or concerns, PM a mod - DO NOT post them in the thread. Remember all the TOS and rules, please.
Thank you,
Salem
Just the Fax
03-05-2012, 07:34 AM
Quote:#1031
Originally Posted by LOMom
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=164669&page=42
You have the size 12 hush puppies at the murder scene. That along with motive, means, and opportunity and JY is a guilty man.
How does anybody so easily disregard the hush puppy shoes??? That is very compelling evidence - it's almost as good as a finger print. You're seriously going to believe that a stanger random killer changed shoes (from the Franklins to the hush puppies) into a pair that weren't his size so that we woudn't leave a blood trail, but you can't believe that the man with all the motive wore shoes (Franklins) that weren't his size in order to throw off LE??? On this board just today, we already mentioned two other cases in which the killer tried to throw off LE by having the wrong size shoe show up in the crime scene - it happens, so why can't you believe it happened in this case?? It's not a leap to believe that it happened.
Shame on people throwing out Gracie's testimony based on the DT's attack of her on the stand. She clearly remembers the face of the man who cussed at her and threw a 20 in her face, but only pumped $15 in gas on the morning of 11/3 at about 5:30am.
===============================================
:goodpost:
Yea, we are not talking about a size 12 Nike, were there are a gazillion made. We are talking about a very rare Hushy Puppy Orbital. The entire brand is rare, so using the argument it could have been a Sealy or Belville falls flat.
Gracie did not seek out LE by inserting herself in a murder case.
The defense desperately needed to paint her as some brain damaged imbecile because she held the final nail to his coffin.
People with brain defects aren't trusted to run a store with that much cash and assets, especially alone for 8 hours.
I found her genuine, humble and very believable.
Berry
03-05-2012, 07:49 AM
:rocker::takeabow::yourock:Quote:#1031
Originally Posted by LOMom
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=164669&page=42
You have the size 12 hush puppies at the murder scene. That along with motive, means, and opportunity and JY is a guilty man.
How does anybody so easily disregard the hush puppy shoes??? That is very compelling evidence - it's almost as good as a finger print. You're seriously going to believe that a stanger random killer changed shoes (from the Franklins to the hush puppies) into a pair that weren't his size so that we woudn't leave a blood trail, but you can't believe that the man with all the motive wore shoes (Franklins) that weren't his size in order to throw off LE??? On this board just today, we already mentioned two other cases in which the killer tried to throw off LE by having the wrong size shoe show up in the crime scene - it happens, so why can't you believe it happened in this case?? It's not a leap to believe that it happened.
Shame on people throwing out Gracie's testimony based on the DT's attack of her on the stand. She clearly remembers the face of the man who cussed at her and threw a 20 in her face, but only pumped $15 in gas on the morning of 11/3 at about 5:30am.
===============================================
:goodpost:
Yea, we are not talking about a size 12 Nike, were there are a gazillion made. We are talking about a very rare Hushy Puppy Orbital. The entire brand is rare, so using the argument it could have been a Sealy or Belville falls flat.
Gracie did not seek out LE by inserting herself in a murder case.
The defense desperately needed to paint her as some brain damaged imbecile because she held the final nail to his coffin.
People with brain defects aren't trusted to run a store with that much cash and assets, especially alone for 8 hours.
I found her genuine, humble and very believable.
~n/t~
03-05-2012, 07:51 AM
Good Morning!
http://www.dreamstime.com/breakfast-series-bagels-coffee-and-juice-thumb469823.jpg
Hoping for a verdict today! I'll be jumping back and forth from this forum to Tori's forum. Her accused killer's trial begins today.
Praying both Michelle and Victoria get justice. :rose: :rose:
oceanblueeyes
03-05-2012, 07:58 AM
Good morning Everyone!
I am praying that justice will be rendered this time.
God bless Michelle and all of her family.
May they remain strong. I know the waiting must be excruciating.
Bottle Cap
03-05-2012, 08:05 AM
There seems to be a baffling assumption in some quarters that to wear the wrong sized shoes to a crime would require a brilliant criminal mastermind of the sort that North Carolina has never seen. I don't get it. It's a pretty basic thing to consider - footprints - sort of along the same lines as wearing gloves to avoid leaving fingerprints. (Or sending a card on your anniversary to cover up the reality of your nefarious activities.)
Another take on this I don't get is the insurance money. Some folks say it can't be a motive because look, he didn't even go after it, and you can't get it anyway if you're a suspect. That's 100% hindsight.
People seem to kill for insurance money with alarming frequency. I cannot imagine not even one of them sitting around going "Hey self, lets take this policy out even though I'm gonna get busted and be on trial!" Nuh uh. People do it because they think they're going to pull it off. JY thought Hillsville and 169 miles was going to give him some sort of immunity, and that the good old LE guys were going to bumble round in circles bumping into each other, trying to find a guy wearing size 10 Franklins.
Madeleine74
03-05-2012, 08:18 AM
{snip for space}
and that the good old LE guys were going to bumble round in circles bumping into each other, trying to find a guy wearing size 10 Franklins.
Alas that has mostly only happened on the Internetweb by susceptible followers. JY: 1 Susceptibles: 0
Bottle Cap
03-05-2012, 08:30 AM
Alas that has mostly only happened on the Internetweb by susceptible followers. JY: 1 Susceptibles: 0
One thing about the malignant-narcissist sociopath is they invariably believe themselves smarter than everyone else. It is an unfortunate truth that they are frequently smarter than many people. Its what makes them successful criminals, CEO's, politicians.
I'd be willing to bet one of my cats that BC in prison over yonder is eating up all the support he's getting from the susceptibles. Successful manipulation, whether its done just to your wife or to the multitudes, is crack for these peeps because it reinforces their innate sense of superiority.
Tipstaff
03-05-2012, 08:40 AM
One thing about the malignant-narcissist sociopath is they invariably believe themselves smarter than everyone else. It is an unfortunate truth that they are frequently smarter than many people. Its what makes them successful criminals, CEO's, politicians.
I'd be willing to bet one of my cats that BC in prison over yonder is eating up all the support he's getting from the susceptibles. Successful manipulation, whether its done just to your wife or to the multitudes, is crack for these peeps because it reinforces their innate sense of superiority.
To your point that is why JY had such a reaction to Gracie she challenged him and he reacted - who was a gas station attendant to challenge him - and perhaps screw up what JY thought he had accomplished - the perfect murder.
iucpa
03-05-2012, 08:41 AM
So how will we know when a verdict is in? Is there a particular twitter account everyone is following?
Has the wral camera been on at all during the deliberations? Does it stay on, does it pop up now and then?
tarheel8600
03-05-2012, 08:43 AM
Just a thought.
Do any of you think that it impacts the jury at all (even if it's not supposed to) that JY had very few supporters in the courtroom?
nursebeeme
03-05-2012, 08:50 AM
So how will we know when a verdict is in? Is there a particular twitter account everyone is following?
Has the wral camera been on at all during the deliberations? Does it stay on, does it pop up now and then?
not sure...
wral doesn't even have it listed on their live line up...
here is a link for abc11:
http://abclocal.go.com/wtvd/livenow?id=8323913
(nothing currently on but iirc someone said that they break in if there is news?)
~n/t~
03-05-2012, 08:51 AM
Just a thought.
Do any of you think that it impacts the jury at all (even if it's not supposed to) that JY had very few supporters in the courtroom?
Hope not. Someone's fate can't be impacted by how many supporters the accused has. SP's parents were there every single day and he still got the DP.
Their focus should be on the evidence, imo
With that said, I know jurors in other trials did take the defendant's lack of emotion into consideration when rendering a verdict.
Tipstaff
03-05-2012, 08:54 AM
Just a thought.
Do any of you think that it impacts the jury at all (even if it's not supposed to) that JY had very few supporters in the courtroom?
Possibly but perhaps the jury will balance this by looking at just how few people, other than PY and JY's sister, had very little positive to say about JY.
tarheel8600
03-05-2012, 08:56 AM
Hope not. Someone's fate can't be impacted by how many supporters the accused has. SP's parents were there every single day and he still got the DP.
Their focus should be on the evidence, imo
With that said, I know jurors in other trials did take the defendant's lack of emotion into consideration when rendering a verdict.
Speaking of SP, there was very limited evidence in that case. Just circumstantial. Why do you think the jury in that case had no trouble finding him guilty and giving him the DP?
iucpa
03-05-2012, 08:57 AM
not sure...
wral doesn't even have it listed on their live line up...
here is a link for abc11:
http://abclocal.go.com/wtvd/livenow?id=8323913
(nothing currently on but iirc someone said that they break in if there is news?)
Do they at least put the video up when they start for the day? Is that 9:30 again this AM?
iucpa
03-05-2012, 08:58 AM
I'm thinking there's a 75% chance of another hung jury and a 25% chance of guilty. Anyone else want to hazard a guess? Not what you think, but what you think the jury will come back with.
tarheel8600
03-05-2012, 09:00 AM
Possibly but perhaps the jury will balance this by looking at just how few people, other than PY and JY's sister, had very little positive to say about JY.
I agree. The two non-family members who knew him and testified for the defense said he was a manipulator and a horndog. When Ambrose came out with the description of JY as a manipulator, I bet the DT and JY were thinking, "We are screwed."
nursebeeme
03-05-2012, 09:01 AM
InSession facebook (they are on verdict watch):
https://www.facebook.com/InSession/posts/392194364142523?comment_id=6595847
Talina
03-05-2012, 09:03 AM
Speaking of SP, there was very limited evidence in that case. Just circumstantial. Why do you think the jury in that case had no trouble finding him guilty and giving him the DP?
They took the time to really deliberate and look at all the evidence to piece the puzzle together.
IMO
tarheel8600
03-05-2012, 09:03 AM
I'm thinking there's a 75% chance of another hung jury and a 25% chance of guilty. Anyone else want to hazard a guess? Not what you think, but what you think the jury will come back with.
I'll step on out there with 70% chance of guilty and 30% chance of a hung jury. I think there is 0% chance of acquittal.
Let's see if I have to eat my words.
tarheel8600
03-05-2012, 09:04 AM
They took the time to really deliberate and look at all the evidence to piece the puzzle together.
IMO
I agree. Who else would have wanted Laci dead?
That case reminds me of this case so much.
Skittles
03-05-2012, 09:06 AM
Do they at least put the video up when they start for the day? Is that 9:30 again this AM?
ABC11 (WTVD) usually broadcasts the courtroom events (start of the day, breaks, juror questions) during deliberations.
WRAL tends to send out tweets, but does not broadcast during deliberations until the verdict is in.
Skittles
03-05-2012, 09:08 AM
Do they at least put the video up when they start for the day? Is that 9:30 again this AM?
Missed your second question. 9:30 start today.
Turnadot
03-05-2012, 09:08 AM
I'm praying so hard that the jury puts the pieces of the puzzle together and returns a Guilty verdict. In the First Degree, hopefully.
IMO
Wolfpack
03-05-2012, 09:09 AM
Missed your second question. 9:30 start today.
Good. I was hoping they wouldn't do the normal Monday morning 10am start time.
Madeleine74
03-05-2012, 09:09 AM
ABC11 (WTVD) usually broadcasts the courtroom events (start of the day, breaks, juror questions) during deliberations.
WRAL tends to send out tweets, but does not broadcast during deliberations until the verdict is in.
Interesting since WRAL is the only camera in the courtroom itself. ABC11 has the worst sound, much too low, but they do seem to keep their feed on longer.
Turnadot
03-05-2012, 09:16 AM
I'm so nervous, I can't even work on my SIMpire while I wait.
:-/
Skittles
03-05-2012, 09:25 AM
Interesting since WRAL is the only camera in the courtroom itself. ABC11 has the worst sound, much too low, but they do seem to keep their feed on longer.
Yes, they do. Don't shut down your window too soon, you may miss something! :)
nursebeeme
03-05-2012, 09:26 AM
this link has a twitter update right on the complete coverage page: http://www.wral.com/specialreports/m...oung_trial_226
I also added this to the OP
fromageball
03-05-2012, 09:27 AM
To your point that is why JY had such a reaction to Gracie she challenged him and he reacted - who was a gas station attendant to challenge him - and perhaps screw up what JY thought he had accomplished - the perfect murder.
If JY were really a sociopathic killer, and was indeed at the gas station that morning, I think he either would have been cool as a cucumber and not lost his cool with Gracie, or I think he would have found an opportunity to kill her too. Maybe waited for the other customers to leave or lure her outside or something.
JMO
nursebeeme
03-05-2012, 09:28 AM
http://abclocal.go.com/wtvd/livenow?id=8323913
I have "the rainbow" on this link (and box to the left says the stream is scheduled to be live fwiw)
Turnadot
03-05-2012, 09:30 AM
If JY were really a sociopathic killer, and was indeed at the gas station that morning, I think he either would have been cool as a cucumber and not lost his cool with Gracie, or I think he would have found an opportunity to kill her too. Maybe waited for the other customers to leave or lure her outside or something.
JMO
This is a serious question: How well versed are you wrt sociopaths?
Luna24
03-05-2012, 09:37 AM
Speaking of SP, there was very limited evidence in that case. Just circumstantial. Why do you think the jury in that case had no trouble finding him guilty and giving him the DP?
I really hope this jury takes all this circumstantial evidence in its totality because to me, there's even more evidence in this case than there was in SP's case and I knew he was guilty too.
good morning everyone. :)
fromageball
03-05-2012, 09:38 AM
This is a serious question: How well versed are you wrt sociopaths?
I've just read books, I'm no expert though, but from what I gather since sociopaths have little/no remorse, JY would either not be so wound up that he lashed out at Gracie - since he doesn't have a history of screaming at strangers like that - or he would get very angry and kill her. I don't think there would be any middle ground.
Mainly I just don't think JY is a sociopath at all whether or not he interacted with Gracie, killed Michelle/Rylan, etc.
JMO
Luna24
03-05-2012, 09:39 AM
I'm thinking there's a 75% chance of another hung jury and a 25% chance of guilty. Anyone else want to hazard a guess? Not what you think, but what you think the jury will come back with.
I'm thinking it's about the reverse - 75% guilty and 25% hung...I don't see a NG verdict at all (and that's not just my wishful thinking. ;) )...
Luna24
03-05-2012, 09:42 AM
They took the time to really deliberate and look at all the evidence to piece the puzzle together.
IMO
how long was the SP jury out - do you know Talina? :) I didn't follow that one as closely as this one....
Like tarheel, I do find a lot of similarities in that case to this one as far as the amount and types of evidence (obviously different crime scenes)...
hopefully justice for Rylan and Michelle will come soon like it did for Laci and Conner.
Bottle Cap
03-05-2012, 09:43 AM
If JY were really a sociopathic killer, and was indeed at the gas station that morning, I think he either would have been cool as a cucumber and not lost his cool with Gracie, or I think he would have found an opportunity to kill her too. Maybe waited for the other customers to leave or lure her outside or something.
JMO
I saw something else about this in a previous thread. I'm not sure where this notion that sociopath=automaton came from.
It's conscience they're lacking, not any show of emotion ever, at any time. As someone else said, probably their purest, truest emotion is anger. Whether its a slow simmering rage that leads someone to start planning a murder, or an immediate outburst of rage, that's one thing they have in spades. They tend to get angry when thwarted. Its all good when things are going their way. Its when things do not go their way that bad stuff happens.
iucpa
03-05-2012, 09:45 AM
I have tremendous luck - I just so happened to be in the courtroom both for the BC guilty verdict and also when the JY jury deadlocked in the first trial. I just popped down to the courthouse both of those days to stop in for an hour each time and both times was there for the verdicts. I think I'll pop down to the courthouse just after lunch today if that gives you any hints... ;)
Stella5
03-05-2012, 09:45 AM
Deliberations have started! We're at 5:20 now and the judge said he'll once again let them control the clock of when they want breaks, etc...
Stella5
03-05-2012, 09:48 AM
If JY were really a sociopathic killer, and was indeed at the gas station that morning, I think he either would have been cool as a cucumber and not lost his cool with Gracie, or I think he would have found an opportunity to kill her too. Maybe waited for the other customers to leave or lure her outside or something.
JMO
IMO, no way! He had to get back to that hotel early enough to not be seen by other hotel guests waking & leaving, grab the receipt to prove he was there; and then onto the hospital to try to solidify his alibi of being 169 miles away - 310 miles away. Another dead body on his route would have most certainly pointed to him being involved. MOO
Skittles
03-05-2012, 09:49 AM
I have tremendous luck - I just so happened to be in the courtroom both for the BC guilty verdict and also when the JY jury deadlocked in the first trial. I just popped down to the courthouse both of those days to stop in for an hour each time and both times was there for the verdicts. I think I'll pop down to the courthouse just after lunch today if that gives you any hints... ;)
Don't suppose you could make it 4:30? I'm at a doctor's appointment with my mother most of the afternoon.
nursebeeme
03-05-2012, 09:50 AM
InSession NC v #JasonYoung: Deliberations have begun. Jurors deliberated for a little over five hours Friday.
6 minutes ago · reply · retweet · favorite
NBC17 #jasonyoung Jason Young jury returns, resumes deliberations.
7 minutes ago · reply · retweet · favorite
foxone1 jurors are once again deliberating in #jasonyoung trial..
7 minutes ago · reply · retweet · favorite
http://www.wral.com/specialreports/michelleyoung/?sc_int_cid=2012_02_young_trial_226
Elisaa444
03-05-2012, 09:53 AM
I can see a G verdict ( can't say 1st or 2nd degree tho...tough guess for me.) I actually can't see a hung jury, though obviously that is very possible, it's just that I think the Judge will definitely encourage them to work very hard to make a decision bc of the last go around. If this happens I can see where they could then compromise on a G in the 2nd degree. (which I don't necessarily agree with in this case. But hey who asked me.;)). I like a few others have a very, very difficult time seeing 12 people agree to vote on a NG. I'm very proud of those 4 jurors in the last trial who stood their ground in what they believe and refused to change their vote. There must have been a lot of pressure since 8 others were agreeing and those 4 held out. I'm personally thankful those 4 were not swayed whatsoever even if it meant hung jury. IMO, after watching both trials I think a verdict will happen. I would have voted NG in first trial (pt left me with doubt) though this 2nd trial I'm a firm Guilty. But this is just my lil ole opinion. I thought I had a good read on jury's but CA changed that for sure.
Moo.moo.moo.
I'm thinking there's a 75% chance of another hung jury and a 25% chance of guilty. Anyone else want to hazard a guess? Not what you think, but what you think the jury will come back with.
I'm thinking 50% hung jury, 25% first degree murder, 25% second degree murder...JMO
Talina
03-05-2012, 09:55 AM
how long was the SP jury out - do you know Talina? :) I didn't follow that one as closely as this one....
Like tarheel, I do find a lot of similarities in that case to this one as far as the amount and types of evidence (obviously different crime scenes)...
hopefully justice for Rylan and Michelle will come soon like it did for Laci and Conner.
http://crime.about.com/od/news/a/scott_peterson.htm
Well, IMO not a good comparison since a juror was replaced during deliberations but they came to a verdict on the 7th day of deliberations.
Interestingly, it was 8 hrs (or something like that) after the juror was replaced that a verdict was reached.
I can't remember right now why a juror was replaced.
Luna24
03-05-2012, 09:56 AM
I'm so nervous, I can't even work on my SIMpire while I wait.
:-/
I was good about putting it out of my mind most of the weekend so I wouldn't go nuts..but now that they are deliberating again, I'm a nervous wreck. My first meeting is not until 10:30 today and I have things I could do before then but having trouble concentrating or being productive. :sigh:
Turnadot
03-05-2012, 09:56 AM
I've just read books, I'm no expert though, but from what I gather since sociopaths have little/no remorse, JY would either not be so wound up that he lashed out at Gracie - since he doesn't have a history of screaming at strangers like that - or he would get very angry and kill her. I don't think there would be any middle ground.
Mainly I just don't think JY is a sociopath at all whether or not he interacted with Gracie, killed Michelle/Rylan, etc.
JMO
OK, the above post presents a false dilemma, because:
Yes he very well could have lashed out at Gracie verbally, then split. Anger and fits of rage are part of the profile of sociopaths; it dovetails with their poor behavioral control, and lack of impulse control, especially when something interferes with their goal. They can blend and seem cool, calm, and collected - until they don't.
And I do think he's a sociopath, he fits the profile, hits many, if not all of the markers.
I'm not a doctor, it's just my opinion after interviewing many who have been diagnosed with that specific personality disorder.
JMO
fromageball
03-05-2012, 09:56 AM
I saw something else about this in a previous thread. I'm not sure where this notion that sociopath=automaton came from.
It's conscience they're lacking, not any show of emotion ever, at any time. As someone else said, probably their purest, truest emotion is anger. Whether its a slow simmering rage that leads someone to start planning a murder, or an immediate outburst of rage, that's one thing they have in spades. They tend to get angry when thwarted. Its all good when things are going their way. Its when things do not go their way that bad stuff happens.
Right, but why would he have lashed out at Gracie? That's not his normal behavior and could be explained as him being wound up because he had just committed a murder and was not in his normal state of mind. He wasn't known for lashing out at strangers like that.
If he were a sociopath I don't think he would have been wound up about committing the murder. Regardless he would have known how stupid it would be to call attention to himself like that and would have only lashed out if he lost his cool. Either way there is no other evidence or testimony that JY is a sociopath, but he has been referred to as one several times so I am giving my alternate point of view.
I don't think Gracie actually saw JY in the first place though. I think she encountered some other idiot who couldn't control his temper.
nursebeeme
03-05-2012, 10:00 AM
http://crime.about.com/od/news/a/scott_peterson.htm
Well, IMO not a good comparison since a juror was replaced during deliberations but they came to a verdict on the 7th day of deliberations.
Interestingly, it was 8 hrs (or something like that) after the juror was replaced that a verdict was reached.
I can't remember right now why a juror was replaced.
the trial also lasted four months as well.....
I do have to wonder what effect the weekend had on the jurors (re: personal introspection) it always seems like when a jury goes out over a weekend they come in making decisions (I have no solid facts of this.. just observations from other cases I have followed)
itism3
03-05-2012, 10:03 AM
http://abclocal.go.com/wtvd/livenow?id=8323913
ABC is back up
Requesting to review items; they'll have to locate to make available. Requesting inventory of what was in luggage and picture of JY in Cracker Barrel, the jeans, autopsy report, USA Today, initial master br photos, CY's PJs, pictures of meds from CY's room, picture of HP imprints w/ plastic flap, big map of VA/NC, Hotel 1st floor, photo of back of Explorer showing all luggage...
Lunch at 1230.
Luna24
03-05-2012, 10:05 AM
http://crime.about.com/od/news/a/scott_peterson.htm
Well, IMO not a good comparison since a juror was replaced during deliberations but they came to a verdict on the 7th day of deliberations.
Interestingly, it was 8 hrs (or something like that) after the juror was replaced that a verdict was reached.
I can't remember right now why a juror was replaced.
thanks Talina. :)
I just looked it up and it says 3 of them were replaced. yikes...including the foreman. I wonder if that's common...one of them asked to be replaced and one had done some research on her own apparently...
you are right that it only took about 8 hours after the foreman was replaced to reach a verdict. :)
http://crime.about.com/od/news/a/scott_peterson.htm
fifteen89
03-05-2012, 10:06 AM
I'm liking these jury requests......especially the first one.
ETA: Can anyone tell channel 11 to turn up the volume????
Stella5
03-05-2012, 10:06 AM
Can anyone hear the judge?
dmaxphil
03-05-2012, 10:07 AM
From these requests, sounds like a G lean.
Bottle Cap
03-05-2012, 10:08 AM
Right, but why would he have lashed out at Gracie? That's not his normal behavior and could be explained as him being wound up because he had just committed a murder and was not in his normal state of mind. He wasn't known for lashing out at strangers like that.
If he were a sociopath I don't think he would have been wound up about committing the murder. Regardless he would have known how stupid it would be to call attention to himself like that and would have only lashed out if he lost his cool. Either way there is no other evidence or testimony that JY is a sociopath, but he has been referred to as one several times so I am giving my alternate point of view.
I don't think Gracie actually saw JY in the first place though. I think she encountered some other idiot who couldn't control his temper.
BBM
Didn't he say something wildly innappropriate at the RS/SS wedding? To either the bride or groom's father? And had to be bundled into the car and gotten out of there?
Didn't his friend testify that he'd be all up in provoking some fights, but not actually participating?
Surely he knew how stupid it was to be rude to people's parents at a wedding, but it didn't stop him from doing so did it? Surely he knew it was stupid to pee on a friend's living room floor, but that didn't stop him from doing so. Surely he knew it was stupid to boink CAS on the living room sofa with CY upstairs - didn't stop him.
He lashed out at Gracie because the whole deal had taken longer than he anticipated (CY waking up), he was in a hurry, and she was thwarting him. He needed to get on the road, and her stubborn insistence that he give her a license, credit card or money was holding him up.
No doubt in my mind he's a sociopath/psychopath/narcissist, or some combination thereof. The boundaries aren't always clear, there's overlap.
Madeleine74
03-05-2012, 10:08 AM
Jury is now requesting:
Lunch break @ 12:30pm
inventory of items in JY luggage (judge said this does not exist)
pic of JY in cracker barrel
jeans
autopsy rpt
usa today
initial MBR photos
CY PJs shirt & pants
pics of meds (CY room)
pic of HP imprints w/plastic flap
big map of va/nc
hotel 1st floor diagram
photo of back of explorer showing all luggage
dmaxphil
03-05-2012, 10:08 AM
There IS NO inventory list of all items found in luggage?! Whoa
Stella5
03-05-2012, 10:09 AM
From InSession...
Jury has said they'll break for lunch at 12:30 and they want these items
Inventory of what was in the luggage
Pic from CB
See his jeans
Autopsy report
USA Today
MB photos
Cass pj's
Cass room touched area - tylenol
HP imprints
BIG map of VG & NC
Map of HI first floor
Photo of back of Explorer showing what was in it
Turnadot
03-05-2012, 10:10 AM
Right, but why would he have lashed out at Gracie? That's not his normal behavior and could be explained as him being wound up because he had just committed a murder and was not in his normal state of mind. He wasn't known for lashing out at strangers like that.
If he were a sociopath I don't think he would have been wound up about committing the murder. Regardless he would have known how stupid it would be to call attention to himself like that and would have only lashed out if he lost his cool. Either way there is no other evidence or testimony that JY is a sociopath, but he has been referred to as one several times so I am giving my alternate point of view.
I don't think Gracie actually saw JY in the first place though. I think she encountered some other idiot who couldn't control his temper.
What have you learned about sociopaths that leads you to that conclusion?
Sociopaths get wound up about many things; they have feelings.
IMO
fifteen89
03-05-2012, 10:12 AM
Jury is now requesting:
Lunch break @ 12:30pm
inventory of items in JY luggage (judge said this does not exist)
pic of JY in cracker barrel
jeans
autopsy rpt
usa today
initial MBR photos
CY PJs shirt & pants
pics of meds (CY room)
pic of HP imprints w/plastic flap
big map of va/nc
hotel 1st floor diagram
photo of back of explorer showing all luggage
Also interesting that they said 'no morning break unless needed'. Prayers to the jurors and Michelle's family and friends.
Skittles
03-05-2012, 10:12 AM
http://abclocal.go.com/wtvd/livenow?id=8323913
ABC is back up
Requesting to review items; they'll have to locate to make available. Requesting inventory of what was in luggage and picture of JY in Cracker Barrel, the jeans, autopsy report, USA Today, initial master br photos, CY's PJs, pictures of meds from CY's room, picture of HP imprints w/ plastic flap, big map of VA/NC, Hotel 1st floor, photo of back of Explorer showing all luggage...
Lunch at 1230.
A much more thorough list than the prior jury's.
Grammy Jean
03-05-2012, 10:13 AM
At least it appears this jury is ready to do the work unlike the CA jury who never asked to review even one piece of evidence.
Luna24
03-05-2012, 10:13 AM
the trial also lasted four months as well.....
I do have to wonder what effect the weekend had on the jurors (re: personal introspection) it always seems like when a jury goes out over a weekend they come in making decisions (I have no solid facts of this.. just observations from other cases I have followed)
BBM
great point nursebeeme. :)
From these requests, sounds like a G lean.
Or it could be some G folks trying to persuade the NG folks on the evidence requested!?!?! I wish I was a fly on that jury wall!
Luna24
03-05-2012, 10:14 AM
http://abclocal.go.com/wtvd/livenow?id=8323913
ABC is back up
Requesting to review items; they'll have to locate to make available. Requesting inventory of what was in luggage and picture of JY in Cracker Barrel, the jeans, autopsy report, USA Today, initial master br photos, CY's PJs, pictures of meds from CY's room, picture of HP imprints w/ plastic flap, big map of VA/NC, Hotel 1st floor, photo of back of Explorer showing all luggage...
Lunch at 1230.
Like others, I'm liking these requests too. :)
Boodles
03-05-2012, 10:15 AM
There IS NO inventory list of all items found in luggage?! Whoa
Yeah, too bad there is not an inventory. :banghead: I hope they can figure out what it is they are trying to determine from other evidence/testimony.
Interesting that the inventory is the first item on their list.
nursebeeme
03-05-2012, 10:15 AM
From InSession...
Jury has said they'll break for lunch at 12:30 and they want these items
Inventory of what was in the luggage
Pic from CB
See his jeans
Autopsy report
USA Today
MB photos
Cass pj's
Cass room touched area - tylenol
HP imprints
BIG map of VG & NC
Map of HI first floor
Photo of back of Explorer showing what was in it
wow
anyone else on pins and needles?
iucpa
03-05-2012, 10:16 AM
I think these requests definitely indicate a G lean...
w1df10wr
03-05-2012, 10:16 AM
A much more thorough list than the prior jury's.
I didn't follow the first JY trial. Was just about to ask if that jury had requested any items. Thank you!
Madeleine74
03-05-2012, 10:17 AM
What does it all mean?
Other than the jurors are actually discussing things, who the heck knows.
You'd have better success reading tea leaves with a blindfold.
Grammy Jean
03-05-2012, 10:18 AM
Or it could be some G folks trying to persuade the NG folks on the evidence requested!?!?! I wish I was a fly on that jury wall!
I was in court the day the jury did the PT evidence reviews. Many of the jurors spent time looking at the contents of JY's luggage.
iucpa
03-05-2012, 10:19 AM
I think these requests definitely indicate a G lean...
On second thought, UNLESS they are leaning NG and just wanted to look at a few things to see if they can convince themselves otherwise?
Yeah, too bad there is not an inventory. :banghead: I hope they can figure out what it is they are trying to determine from other evidence/testimony.
If there's no inventory, can they just request the luggage itself and then they can inventory it themselves :please:
iucpa
03-05-2012, 10:20 AM
I will say this - the couple of times I went to the courthouse this time around, the majority of the jury seemed very attentive. Yes, there were a couple of nodders and people not paying as much attention, but I think this jury is taking its job seriously, and I know I'll be happy with whatever they decide knowing they gave it an honest effort.
Stella5
03-05-2012, 10:21 AM
Wow... the jury will be in the courtroom to examine all the evidence in front of everyone... Including the defendant. IMO that is just a stupid rule in NC courts! It won't allow the jurors to privately discuss each point of evidence while they are reviewing it. Dumb, dumb, dumb... MOO
jrb0124
03-05-2012, 10:21 AM
From these requests, sounds like a G lean.
Its tough to read requests like this. Could be they want to see the luggage pics rule something out, rather than in.
iucpa
03-05-2012, 10:21 AM
I saw someone say the foreperson was a young, white female. Does anyone know which one she is? i.e., where she was sitting in the jury box? (Obviously only for those who were ever in the courtroom).
Just curious.
Grammy Jean
03-05-2012, 10:22 AM
If there's no inventory, can they just request the luggage itself and then they can inventory it themselves :please:
I would hope so it was there laid out for them to see the Friday they had the PT evidence view.
Sailor Bug
03-05-2012, 10:22 AM
I think these requests definitely indicate a G lean...
:praying: Justice for Michelle & Rylan
Stella5
03-05-2012, 10:22 AM
I was in court the day the jury did the PT evidence reviews. Many of the jurors spent time looking at the contents of JY's luggage.
So even with the lack of a typed list of what was in that suitcase, they'll be able to see it with their own eyes... that's reassuring! Cause we all know that dark sweater & hp (or round toed shoes, take your pick) are missing!
Shelby1
03-05-2012, 10:22 AM
I'm kind of shocked that there wasn't an inventory done of the luggage. :waitasec:
On second thought, UNLESS they are leaning NG and just wanted to look at a few things to see if they can convince themselves otherwise?
I think it's way too hard to figure out what the requests mean. It could benefit either side depending on how the jury is approaching deliberations and how their initial vote went. Hope the Verdict comes back soon....it's making it very hard for me to get any work done!:doh:
Shelby1
03-05-2012, 10:23 AM
I would hope so it was there laid out for them to see the Friday they had the PT evidence view.
OHHHH, I see. Ok.
So they have the actual luggage and the contents to look at.
Even better than a list on a piece of paper, imo.
Grammy Jean
03-05-2012, 10:24 AM
Can someone clarify was the USA today the weekend edition? I am almost certain it was not the Thursday paper.
Madeleine74
03-05-2012, 10:26 AM
The USA Today was supposedly the Fri/weekend edition that was found in the back of his SUV.
Bottle Cap
03-05-2012, 10:26 AM
If you were an NG trying to convince a G to change their mind, what sorts of things would/could you request, evidence-wise?
itism3
03-05-2012, 10:26 AM
I saw someone say the foreperson was a young, white female. Does anyone know which one she is? i.e., where she was sitting in the jury box? (Obviously only for those who were ever in the courtroom).
Just curious.
I believe JTF said it was Juror #8. It should be in Friday's thread, posted before lunch time I believe. I'm not 100% it's #8 though.
Stella5
03-05-2012, 10:26 AM
We are now at 6 hours! Thank you to the jury for taking the time to actually review the evidence, rather than jumping to a verdict. Your work is much appreciated.
~n/t~
03-05-2012, 10:26 AM
I think these requests definitely indicate a G lean...
Why? Curious.
cody100
03-05-2012, 10:27 AM
This list to me does indicate that they are evaluating the evidence very carefully. That is a good thing. What did they request before in the first trial? And, why isn't there an inventory of the contents of the explorer?
terminatrixator
03-05-2012, 10:27 AM
If JY were really a sociopathic killer, and was indeed at the gas station that morning, I think he either would have been cool as a cucumber and not lost his cool with Gracie, or I think he would have found an opportunity to kill her too. Maybe waited for the other customers to leave or lure her outside or something.
JMO
Since when do sociopath's not lose their cool? Do you think sociopaths walk around all day with a smile on their face :) She interrupted and put a wrench in his cleverly laid out plan.
Of course he was ticked off. You saw him blow up while he was at the gym..."You came here for that". Did you see the pure look of rage and disgust, to where his face twisted and distorted and he became even uglier than he already was...
Luring her outside to kill her too, with what? He got lucky he didn't get caught on tape, if he did he would have had to come up with some excuse. If he got caught again at another gas station, he would have come up with another excuse, if he got caught sneaking back into the hotel he would have come up with another excuse. He wouldn't have killed anyone else that got into his way, because he thought he'd be able to talk his way out of, or make excuses for the stops, or being seen. He's a sociopath, and a salesman, he's talked his way out of so many other things in the past.
fifteen89
03-05-2012, 10:28 AM
So will they end up giving them the testimony about what was in the luggage? (if the jury asks for it)
Boodles
03-05-2012, 10:28 AM
Wow... the jury will be in the courtroom to examine all the evidence in front of everyone... Including the defendant. IMO that is just a stupid rule in NC courts! It won't allow the jurors to privately discuss each point of evidence while they are reviewing it. Dumb, dumb, dumb... MOO
Exactly! Intimidating much to be stared at by the defendant and gallery while observing evidence close up and in detail??? It's difficult to think under pressure - this rule is SO ARCHAIC and bizarre.
Talina
03-05-2012, 10:28 AM
I believe JTF said it was Juror #8. It should be in Friday's thread, posted before lunch time I believe. I'm not 100% it's #8 though.
He later corrected himself to say Juror #11 once he got there. He was repeating what BK said on InSessions about it being Juror #8 and from what I recall, later that evening he said it is in fact juror #11, a female that appears to be in her early 30s.
IMO
terminatrixator
03-05-2012, 10:29 AM
I believe JTF said it was Juror #8. It should be in Friday's thread, posted before lunch time I believe. I'm not 100% it's #8 though.
I think there was an issue as to whether it was Juror #8 or Juror #11.
Madeleine74
03-05-2012, 10:29 AM
I believe JTF said it was Juror #8. It should be in Friday's thread, posted before lunch time I believe. I'm not 100% it's #8 though.
The jury forewoman is juror #11
That info about #8 was incorrect.
~n/t~
03-05-2012, 10:30 AM
Wow... the jury will be in the courtroom to examine all the evidence in front of everyone... Including the defendant. IMO that is just a stupid rule in NC courts! It won't allow the jurors to privately discuss each point of evidence while they are reviewing it. Dumb, dumb, dumb... MOO
:what: Really? That's crazy!
jrb0124
03-05-2012, 10:30 AM
re: hotel-based evidence requested, since they heard JY testify through trial 1 video, IMO if the jury can agree that JY deliberately staged his "overnight" then its a safe bet they return a G. Otherwise - no.
Lori59
03-05-2012, 10:30 AM
If there's no inventory, can they just request the luggage itself and then they can inventory it themselves :please:
I think they did request JY luggage as well. Sure I heard that with my ear laying on my laptop cuz of no volume with ABC!!!
heidisams
03-05-2012, 10:30 AM
What does it all mean?
Other than the jurors are actually discussing things, who the heck knows.
You'd have better success reading tea leaves with a blindfold.
Hard to say what's going on in there, but it does me think, at the very least, we may have some G's in there... or some that are willing to go there! :)
dmaxphil
03-05-2012, 10:31 AM
If you were an NG trying to convince a G to change their mind, what sorts of things would/could you request, evidence-wise?
Timeline info. Distances from point to point on JY's route. A calculator. Print results on medicine dropper, progress papers, ebay papers. Gas station attendants original description of JY. All corroborating witnesses from that King gas station. Cindy Beaver's testimony. Newspaper lady's testimony.
Grammy Jean
03-05-2012, 10:33 AM
Anyone have the Cracker Barrel pic handy?
Stella5
03-05-2012, 10:34 AM
Anyone have the Cracker Barrel pic handy?
http://charlotte.news14.com/content/654096/jury-considers-surveillance-video-of-jason-young
not the pic, but news on it with pictures
Boodles
03-05-2012, 10:35 AM
I think it's weird that they know now that they want to take lunch at 12:45. What if they're involved in a deep debate at that point? And what was with leaving at 4:50 on Friday?
I hope Jason is sweating bullets so they can see his nervousness.
If any of you WS posters are actually in the courtroom when the jurors view the evidence, will you please take note and report back here if any of the jury members make eye contact with JY or MF/LF. THANKS!
:please:
Madeleine74
03-05-2012, 10:35 AM
actually they requested lunch @ 12:30pm, not 12:45pm.
Maybe some jurors get hungry earlier and they compromised on the time.
jrb0124
03-05-2012, 10:36 AM
I think it's weird that they know now that they want to take lunch at 12:45. What if they're involved in a deep debate at that point? And what was with leaving at 4:50 on Friday?
I think it might just be the jury trying to be schedule-considerate so that everyone else involved can plan around their schedule.
Stella5
03-05-2012, 10:37 AM
I think it's weird that they know now that they want to take lunch at 12:45. What if they're involved in a deep debate at that point? And what was with leaving at 4:50 on Friday?
I hope Jason is sweating bullets so they can see his nervousness.
I think that's strange too... if you're involved in a debate over something, you wouldn't want to stop and pick it up after lunch... MOO!
Friday we assumed they wanted to beat feet outta there because the First Lady was in town and traffic was supposed to be a mess.
iucpa
03-05-2012, 10:37 AM
The jury forewoman is juror #11
That info about #8 was incorrect.
Where does juror 11 sit?
~n/t~
03-05-2012, 10:37 AM
actually they requested lunch @ 12:30pm, not 12:45pm.
Maybe some jurors get hungry earlier and they compromised on the time.
If they don't ask for a morning break then it's understandable that they prefer an early lunch. imo
iucpa
03-05-2012, 10:40 AM
Does anyone have a link to WRAL's coverage? I can't hear the ABC11 feed.
jrb0124
03-05-2012, 10:41 AM
Anyone catch 48 hrs last night re: Ernie Scherer?
2 people bludgeoned to death w/undetermined weapon
LE: no forced entry, not a burgurlary, not a robbery, highly likely victims knew perp, staged ransack, valuables out in the open and not taken
Perp (son) faked size 12 bloody shoe prints (perp wears size 10) at crime scene
Everyone (family/friends) eliminated except for perp
$2m dollar inheritence at stake
Perp asked to see will 2 days after murder
Perp says he was asleep 390 miles away
Perp secretly cheating on wife with mutiple concurrent women
Perp made odd comments to family after murder
Perp cell phone goes dead/off for 17 hours night of murder
Surveillance camera at nearby Country club, very similar to perps car spotted night of murder but no definite match can be made - then left 4 hours later.
not enough evidence to arrest perp though he remains the #1 suspect
arrested a year later
Pros admits all evidence is circumstatial: no fingerprints, no witness placing perp at or near the scene, cannot verify car on security camera - but everything points to perp. Defense points to foreign DNA/prints at crime scene.
jury votes G.
The Country Club Murders - 48 Hours - CBS News
tarheel8600
03-05-2012, 10:41 AM
BBM
Didn't he say something wildly innappropriate at the RS/SS wedding? To either the bride or groom's father? And had to be bundled into the car and gotten out of there?
Didn't his friend testify that he'd be all up in provoking some fights, but not actually participating?
Surely he knew how stupid it was to be rude to people's parents at a wedding, but it didn't stop him from doing so did it? Surely he knew it was stupid to pee on a friend's living room floor, but that didn't stop him from doing so. Surely he knew it was stupid to boink CAS on the living room sofa with CY upstairs - didn't stop him.
He lashed out at Gracie because the whole deal had taken longer than he anticipated (CY waking up), he was in a hurry, and she was thwarting him. He needed to get on the road, and her stubborn insistence that he give her a license, credit card or money was holding him up.
No doubt in my mind he's a sociopath/psychopath/narcissist, or some combination thereof. The boundaries aren't always clear, there's overlap.
BBM
It's interesting that you wrote this.
The guy that I work with that went out occasionally with JY and their mutual friends told me the other day that one time they had gone to a bar/restaurant called Magnolia's in Asheville. When they were leaving, JY spotted two guys walking on the sidewalk. These two guys were "different"- not good ole boys, if you know what I mean.
JY started yelling at them, calling them names, bullying them. The rest of the guys were telling Jason to stop it man, and let's just leave. They had to physically get JY in the vehicle to stop his unprovoked, outrageous behavior towards these two guys.
My coworker said JY was just crazy acting that night. He was going to do what he wanted to do no matter what the effect on others around him.
itism3
03-05-2012, 10:41 AM
Where does juror 11 sit?
Courtesy of Wolfpack:
Jury box is set up like this:
A1, A2, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6
A3, A4, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12
nursebeeme
03-05-2012, 10:41 AM
Does anyone have a link to WRAL's coverage? I can't hear the ABC11 feed.
iucpa, wral is not live that I can find
they DO have a twitter update:
http://www.wral.com/specialreports/michelleyoung/?sc_int_cid=2012_02_young_trial_226
Stella5
03-05-2012, 10:42 AM
Does anyone have a link to WRAL's coverage? I can't hear the ABC11 feed.
They don't have it streaming and I can't find any other link... anyone else? Thinking about calling ABC!
ETA I cannot find their contact info on the page, but did post on their facebook wall that they have no sound!
Boodles
03-05-2012, 10:42 AM
I'm gobsmacked out of my mind over the fact they can't take this evidence to review in private. This process is so slanted in favor of the defendant!!
iucpa
03-05-2012, 10:43 AM
I can be to the courthouse in 15 minutes - I should have gone down there when they started introducing all of this...
itism3
03-05-2012, 10:43 AM
iucpa, wral is not live that I can find
they DO have a twitter update:
http://www.wral.com/specialreports/michelleyoung/?sc_int_cid=2012_02_young_trial_226
Try NBC
http://www2.nbc17.com/video/live/
Madeleine74
03-05-2012, 10:44 AM
Forcing the jury to look @ items in the courtroom, without benefit of discussion and comparison and pointing out what area is of interest, might serve to confuse some of them more. They will have to use their memory of what they just observed, and we know from multiple examples some people can't retain anything beyond what they heard or saw all of 10 seconds ago. Some see it and get it wrong or even backwards. I can't stand this rule and I know the judge doesn't like it either.
Talina
03-05-2012, 10:45 AM
http://www2.nbc17.com/video/live/
BritsKate
03-05-2012, 10:46 AM
I've just read books, I'm no expert though, but from what I gather since sociopaths have little/no remorse, JY would either not be so wound up that he lashed out at Gracie - since he doesn't have a history of screaming at strangers like that - or he would get very angry and kill her. I don't think there would be any middle ground.
Mainly I just don't think JY is a sociopath at all whether or not he interacted with Gracie, killed Michelle/Rylan, etc.
JMO
Well some examples of behavior leading away from APD would be appreciated. Other than mimicked emotion for his wife/daughter I have seen far more of his behavior consistent with that of someone afflicted with cluster b personality disorders - possibly co-morbid.
Not a psych expert either but I did live with someone disordered for a long time. It leaves its impression. :)
Right, but why would he have lashed out at Gracie? That's not his normal behavior and could be explained as him being wound up because he had just committed a murder and was not in his normal state of mind. He wasn't known for lashing out at strangers like that.
If he were a sociopath I don't think he would have been wound up about committing the murder. Regardless he would have known how stupid it would be to call attention to himself like that and would have only lashed out if he lost his cool. Either way there is no other evidence or testimony that JY is a sociopath, but he has been referred to as one several times so I am giving my alternate point of view.
I don't think Gracie actually saw JY in the first place though. I think she encountered some other idiot who couldn't control his temper.
Disordered people do not blow up constantly but they are angry constantly - their anger is always just below the surface and it is easily tripped.
IME they are usually passive-aggressive unless provoked (it could be as simple as burning toast or dropping a penny for some) and then they react via explosion.
Trust me when I say disordered people don't murder everyone they come into contact with. ;) But the people they are closest to are usually the targets of their aggression, anger, and mind games.
Talina
03-05-2012, 10:47 AM
Forcing the jury to look @ items in the courtroom, without benefit of discussion and comparison and pointing out what area is of interest, might serve to confuse some of them more. They will have to use their memory of what they just observed and we know from multiple examples some people can't retain anything beyond what they heard or saw 10 seconds ago. Some see it and get it wrong or even backwards.
I think that law really needs to be changed.
At the very least, the court room should be cleared and let the jury look at the items, discuss it then send them back to the jury room without it if need be but to have them look at it under the watchful eye of the defendant and everyone else in the court room is ridiculous and borders on intimidation IMO if the defendant is staring them down.
gracielee
03-05-2012, 10:47 AM
Back to bars on 17? Any place live?
the couger
03-05-2012, 10:47 AM
IMO, not having a list of items from suitcase is going to raise red flags. Makes me wonder WHY??? This would be a common sense thing for LE to do.
iucpa
03-05-2012, 10:48 AM
Courtesy of Wolfpack:
Jury box is set up like this:
A1, A2, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6
A3, A4, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12
Thank you - that helps. 2 of the jurors I observed not paying as much attention were alternates then according to this chart.
Anyone else who attended have thoughts on any of them?
gracielee
03-05-2012, 10:48 AM
As for inventory, can't the jury ask for testimony to be read back to them?
itism3
03-05-2012, 10:48 AM
Back to bars on 17? Any place live?
ABC is bars too. I imagine the Jurors are looking through the evidence right now.
Boodles
03-05-2012, 10:48 AM
Forcing the jury to look @ items in the courtroom, without benefit of discussion and comparison and pointing out what area is of interest, might serve to confuse some of them more. They will have to use their memory of what they just observed, and we know from multiple examples some people can't retain anything beyond what they heard or saw all of 10 seconds ago. Some see it and get it wrong or even backwards. I can't stand this rule and I know the judge doesn't like it either.
No one can ever say that JY did not have every advantage going for him during this process. Best defense under the law? Oh yeah.
What about victims' rights??
Wolfpack
03-05-2012, 10:48 AM
As for inventory, can't the jury ask for testimony to be read back to them?
I doubt any portion of the trial has been transcribed yet. So, they would need to wait for the court reporter to do so, and that takes a long time.
bogeygal
03-05-2012, 10:49 AM
15 minute break per judge
Talina
03-05-2012, 10:49 AM
Back to bars on 17? Any place live?
probably not...the jury is able to get up and look at the items on the table right now. They are not going to show live feed of that if that is what is going on.
Skittles
03-05-2012, 10:49 AM
Does anyone have a link to WRAL's coverage? I can't hear the ABC11 feed.
No WRAL live coverage, only tweets. You can hear ABC better with ear buds/headphones.
Stella5
03-05-2012, 10:49 AM
As for inventory, can't the jury ask for testimony to be read back to them?
yes :) if they request it.
nursebeeme
03-05-2012, 10:51 AM
Forcing the jury to look @ items in the courtroom, without benefit of discussion and comparison and pointing out what area is of interest, might serve to confuse some of them more. They will have to use their memory of what they just observed, and we know from multiple examples some people can't retain anything beyond what they heard or saw all of 10 seconds ago. Some see it and get it wrong or even backwards. I can't stand this rule and I know the judge doesn't like it either.
can the jurors take notes while they are looking at said requested items?
Madeleine74
03-05-2012, 10:51 AM
can the jurors take notes while they are looking at said requested items?
Of course!
nursebeeme
03-05-2012, 10:53 AM
Of course!
that should help with them "forgetting" what they just looked at (!)
Boodles
03-05-2012, 10:53 AM
yes :) if they request it.
And the judge told them the name of the person whose testimony would discuss this.
gracielee
03-05-2012, 10:53 AM
So has anybody called WRAL yet to ask them why they aren't live? :)
luckyme
03-05-2012, 10:54 AM
actually they requested lunch @ 12:30pm, not 12:45pm.
Maybe some jurors get hungry earlier and they compromised on the time.
Some might take meds too. I have to eat befor i take my meds.
~n/t~
03-05-2012, 10:55 AM
15 minute break per judge
LOL..I thought I read no morning break earlier.
the couger
03-05-2012, 10:55 AM
As for inventory, can't the jury ask for testimony to be read back to them?
Can NOT replace a list of everything that was actually in the suitcase. MOO
I believe it will be a big question in all the jurors mind, is LE trying to hide evidence. MOO
Stella5
03-05-2012, 10:55 AM
I doubt any portion of the trial has been transcribed yet. So, they would need to wait for the court reporter to do so, and that takes a long time.
It's transcribed during the trial, in a rough format by the court reporter. The final transcript is what takes time so she can totally clean it up, but juries can certainly request them during deliberations.
Boodles
03-05-2012, 10:56 AM
15 minute break per judge
I am confused...I thought the jury said they did not need a break? So in the middle of reviewing the evidence, the judge calls for a break?
nursebeeme
03-05-2012, 10:57 AM
InSession . NC v #JasonYoung: Jurors are looking over copies of the autopsy report.
39 seconds ago · reply · retweet · favorite
http://www.wral.com/specialreports/michelleyoung/?sc_int_cid=2012_02_young_trial_226
gracielee
03-05-2012, 10:58 AM
I am confused...I thought the jury said they did not need a break? So in the middle of reviewing the evidence, the judge calls for a break?
I think he meant break from video, so the jury can come down and view the evidence.
nursebeeme
03-05-2012, 10:59 AM
I am confused...I thought the jury said they did not need a break? So in the middle of reviewing the evidence, the judge calls for a break?
if people are going from tweets, IS is tweeting two cases at once... NJvsDharunRavi just took a recess... but is tweeting that jason young jury is looking at autopsy report
http://www.wral.com/specialreports/michelleyoung/?sc_int_cid=2012_02_young_trial_226
heidisams
03-05-2012, 10:59 AM
Oh snap... I wonder if baby boy is considering a bus ticket right now! This is getting so real....:jail:
Hoping for justice!!!
the couger
03-05-2012, 10:59 AM
No one can ever say that JY did not have every advantage going for him during this process. Best defense under the law? Oh yeah.
What about victims' rights??
The victim is entitled to the person who murdered them to be, arrested, brought to trial and convicted.. IMO, this defendant did not murder Michelle Young and if I am correct and he is convicted, the victim has NOT received justice. MOO
Can NOT replace a list of everything that was actually in the suitcase. MOO
I believe it will be a big question in all the jurors mind, is LE trying to hide evidence. MOO
The judge made inferences based on their other requested items (including CY's t-shirt, initial MB photos being "before" processing, first floor of hotel meaning diagram, etc...), if they reqested an inventory of the luggage and that wasn't available, shouldn't they have made the inference that the contents of the luggage should be available to be viewed by the jury. :maddening:
I believe it's a good sign they come back on Monday and make a list they want to revisit. It means they are really THINKING about the decision. Unlike the last jury that was ready to call it quits, rather than revisit the evidence.
JMHO
fran
SteelerGirl43
03-05-2012, 11:01 AM
Was wondering does anyone have a link to the photo of him wearing the "shirt" @ CY b-day party... The one that is so called staged..
Thanks
Madeleine74
03-05-2012, 11:02 AM
Here's how the items the jury asked for will be interpreted:
- The NG folks will see this as benefiting the NG position
- The G folks will see this as benefiting the G position
- The hung jury folks will see this as continuing to divide the jury
And the rest of the folks will not know what it all means.
gracielee
03-05-2012, 11:03 AM
I wonder if any of 'our people' are in the courtroom today?
SteelerGirl43
03-05-2012, 11:03 AM
IMO, not having a list of items from suitcase is going to raise red flags. Makes me wonder WHY??? This would be a common sense thing for LE to do.
I was thinking the same very thing.. If I were a juror I would be saying really oh wow!! Whats going on...
Wolfpack
03-05-2012, 11:05 AM
It's transcribed during the trial, in a rough format by the court reporter. The final transcript is what takes time so she can totally clean it up, but juries can certainly request them during deliberations.
I've never seen a Judge agree to give the jurors part of the transcript during deliberations. Have you seen otherwise? In my experience, what is transcribed by the Court Reporter during trial is an odd conjunction of words, so that she knows what she needs to type up later.
~n/t~
03-05-2012, 11:06 AM
Here's how the items the jury asked for will be interpreted:
- The NG folks will see this as benefiting the NG position
- The G folks will see this as benefiting the G position
- The hung jury folks will see this as continuing to divide the jury
And the rest of the folks will not know what it all means.
Put me in the don't know what it all means category. :floorlaugh:
Talina
03-05-2012, 11:08 AM
Put me in the don't know what it all means category. :floorlaugh:
Probably a little bit of everything for guilty,not guilty and on the fence.
the couger
03-05-2012, 11:08 AM
There is a reason someone on that jury wants to see the actual list of items in suitcase.. Why?? Only the person who suggested it, knows.
I don't read into these requests for evidence as G, NG, or Hung. It's a sign they're doing their job. They're being attentive. They have questions and perhaps by revisiting the evidence as it was discovered by LE, they'll be able to decide if it's the one thing that makes them vote any which way.
These 12 people had an entire weekend to contemplate what has been presented to them over the past few weeks. They had a chance on Friday to get, most likely, a first vote and probably enough time for each juror to give their reason for that decision. Their 'hook' if you will, on which item or circumstance means to them, it cannot be any other way, but guilt, innocent, or who knows? Undecided.
JMHO
fran
~n/t~
03-05-2012, 11:12 AM
My :twocents:
I find that is a lot of evidence to be asking to see, imo. Usually a jury may be stuck on one or two pieces of evidence but that's quite a list!!
Wonder if it's one juror or different jurors asking for something different. I noticed CY items are on there as well. The medicine seems to be an important factor for at least one juror.
I've never seen a Judge agree to give the jurors part of the transcript during deliberations. Have you seen otherwise? In my experience, what is transcribed by the Court Reporter during trial is an odd conjunction of words, so that she knows what she needs to type up later.
I've heard the court reporter read from the transcript, back to the jurors.
JMHO
fran
fifteen89
03-05-2012, 11:12 AM
Can NOT replace a list of everything that was actually in the suitcase. MOO
I believe it will be a big question in all the jurors mind, is LE trying to hide evidence. MOO
:what: It's not LE's shirt that's missing from his suitcase, it's Jason's shirt.
nursebeeme
03-05-2012, 11:13 AM
There is a reason someone on that jury wants to see the actual list of items in suitcase.. Why?? Only the person who suggested it, knows.
and the cracker barrel picture and the jeans as well
the couger
03-05-2012, 11:17 AM
I am pondering the idea if the dismissal of a Durham ADA on Friday, plays a role in what they are requesting to review?
Wasn't one of the reasons, with holding exculpatory evidence? Not saying this is the case here but it brings into question the honesty of all involved in a case. MOO
Madeleine74
03-05-2012, 11:18 AM
The items from the suitcase were shown in court and entered into evidence. A list of items in the suitcase was not entered into evidence. Maybe LE has one, I don't know. But that doesn't matter because if a list exists but it wasn't entered into evidence during the trial it's not something the jury will get.
They can look at the items from the suitcase again and make their own list if they want. It would not be a long list, that's for sure.
I will say this - the couple of times I went to the courthouse this time around, the majority of the jury seemed very attentive. Yes, there were a couple of nodders and people not paying as much attention, but I think this jury is taking its job seriously, and I know I'll be happy with whatever they decide knowing they gave it an honest effort.
thank god, the first person who has said something nice about jurors!!!
Stella5
03-05-2012, 11:21 AM
I've never seen a Judge agree to give the jurors part of the transcript during deliberations. Have you seen otherwise? In my experience, what is transcribed by the Court Reporter during trial is an odd conjunction of words, so that she knows what she needs to type up later.
Give and read I've seen both, most recently the Blago trial. It is the right of the jury during deliberations to ask for testimony from one or more witnesses that they can either review or have read back. Also with the advancement of the equipment used in court reporting these days, a lot of transcriptions are actual words instead of the old short-hand machines they used to use. During deliberations while the court reporter is officially off the record, she/he will most likely sit there and work on her transcriptions of the trial as well so the final copy can be made available sooner rather than later. I actually thought about Court Reporting as a career awhile back, but decided against it... Moo
SteelerGirl43
03-05-2012, 11:21 AM
No one has the b-day photo?
Grammy Jean
03-05-2012, 11:23 AM
I have pleaded my case often for the round toed shoes JY wore at CB and never recovered, then there is the evidence that days after the murder before the NTO JY bought round toed casual dress shoes that look just like the ones he on at the CB.The HP expert said those shoes were consistent with the appearance of HP Orbitals. That coupled with the dark colored pullover captured on the pic of JY at midnight and never was recovered. I also think the jeans JY wore were not the jeans seen in the CB and HI pics. Those jeans did not appear to have the back cargo pockets and looked to be more of a dress jean that would go along with the more dressy cream colored pullover JY had on in the HI and CB pics. All of this leaves no room for reasonable doubt for me. The jurors did ask to see those jeans.
gracielee
03-05-2012, 11:24 AM
I've never seen a Judge agree to give the jurors part of the transcript during deliberations. Have you seen otherwise? In my experience, what is transcribed by the Court Reporter during trial is an odd conjunction of words, so that she knows what she needs to type up later.
Yes, I've seen it numerous times, probably before this current age of 'instant' everything. I've seen witness readbacks for juries during deliberations. They usually took a bit of time to set up. And all parties are required back in the courtroom for the readback. In the early days of Court TV.
iucpa
03-05-2012, 11:24 AM
So I gave in and came. Here now.
I think the fact they asked for a 'list' of the contents of the suitcase, vs seeing the actual, was they didn't want to LOOK at the items. They wanted to look at what TYPES of items and how prepared he was to stay at his mom's for part of the weekend.
I doubt they're thinking something sinister is going on because they didn't enter into evidence an actual list. They have the contents. The jury may not have wanted to look at it, just WHAT it was and HOW MUCH.
JMHO
fran
fifteen89
03-05-2012, 11:25 AM
The items from the suitcase were shown in court and entered into evidence. A list of items in the suitcase was not entered into evidence. Maybe LE has one, I don't know. But that doesn't matter because if a list exists but it wasn't entered into evidence during the trial it's not something the jury will get.
They can look at the items from the suitcase again and make their own list if they want. It would not be a long list, that's for sure.
Exactly. I doubt their interest lies in how many condoms are in the suitcase.
SailorMoon
03-05-2012, 11:25 AM
I can be to the courthouse in 15 minutes - I should have gone down there when they started introducing all of this...
What are you waiting on??? ;) j/k (not really).....
Grammy Jean
03-05-2012, 11:26 AM
No one has the b-day photo?
I don't have it but I can tell you there was a huge blown up picture brought in as evidence. I thought Spivey pointed out very clearly it was no way near the same shirt. Of course this trial DT did not even try to suggest this.
Stella5
03-05-2012, 11:27 AM
So I gave in and came. Here now.
You are the best! Thank you!!!:rocker:
Wolfpack
03-05-2012, 11:27 AM
So I gave in and came. Here now.
Well, you of all people know the telltale signs of a verdict coming back. SO, give us plenty of notice!!
iucpa
03-05-2012, 11:27 AM
I wonder if any of 'our people' are in the courtroom today?
I'm here. What do you want to know?
Lori59
03-05-2012, 11:28 AM
Beth Karas face book just said....jurors 8,10,11,12 stepped down to look at CY pajamas and jeans,put on gloves, juror 12 didnt stay to look at jeans.
johnfear
03-05-2012, 11:28 AM
I'm here. What do you want to know?
Can you see them? What's the demeanor? Who's in the room, etc?
gracielee
03-05-2012, 11:28 AM
No one has the b-day photo?
I don't believe the defense disputed the fact that it wasn't the same shirt this time around. The first trial the photo was thrown out there by the defense without notice. This time the prosecution had time to closely examine the photo of the 'birthday shirt' and determined it not to be a match with the HI shirt. This was testified to in court this time and the defense didn't dispute the fact that the shirts don't match. IMO.
luckyme
03-05-2012, 11:30 AM
Beth Karas face book just said....jurors 8,10,11,12 stepped down to look at CY pajamas and jeans,put on gloves, juror 12 didnt stay to look at jeans.
Yes, 3 women 1 man.
Madeleine74
03-05-2012, 11:30 AM
Shoe styles aren't the only evidence that experts call "consistent" as their best and closest description. Also in this list would be:
- hair (unless you can dna test an attached root)
- fibers
- bullets and gun (unless you can get the actual weapon, and match the pattern from a known bullet to one fired from the gun)
- knife (unless you can get the actual weapon and get a DNA match)
lauriej
03-05-2012, 11:30 AM
http://www.facebook.com/BethKarasInsession
Beth Karas InSession (http://www.facebook.com/BethKarasInsession)
Correction: The first jurors to examine the clothes were from the front row. Now three jurors from the back row (jurors 1, 2, and 5) are looking at them. So, 7 of the 12 jurors opted to inspect the clothes; 5 remained in their seats in the jury box.
1 minute ago
Beth Karas InSession (http://www.facebook.com/BethKarasInsession)
Jurors 8, 10, 11, 12 stepped down from the jury box to examine Cassidy's pajamas and Young's jeans. They all put on gloves. Juror 12 returned to her seat after looking at the pjs; she didn't stay to examine the jeans. I wonder if these 4 jurors (3 women and 1 man) are split from the other 8. Not necessarily but maybe...
5 minutes ago
Beth Karas InSession (http://www.facebook.com/BethKarasInsession)
Fifteen minutes into day 2 of deliberations, the jury asked for 12 items in evidence including the map of VA and NC, autopsy report, photos of the master bedroom and little Cassidy's room, photo of Young at Cracker Barrel hours before the murder, photo of the Hush Puppy bloody imprint, photo of luggage in Young's Explorer.
1 hour ago
</H6>
the couger
03-05-2012, 11:31 AM
thank god, the first person who has said something nice about jurors!!!
I would NEVER say anything negative about a jury. They have a very hard job and IMO, we, the public, need to appreciate them instead of criticizing them. That goes even if they return a verdict I disagree with. I am not in the heads of any juror and I sincerely believe they put a lot of thought into their decision and I may not agree with it but I am not going to criticize a one of them. Also, who are we to remark about, what time they start deliberating, when they request a break, or lunch, when to end the day of deliberations...
This decision is one they will live with the rest of their lives,it has to be mind boggling when you think of the responsibility on their shoulders.. AMOO.
iucpa
03-05-2012, 11:31 AM
I have a strong sense a G is coming. I have to say it is surreal to be here in person feet away from all of these people. It's an intense feeling to hear a verdict read that changes so many lives in the most profound way. I honestly almost passed out when the BC verdict was read. Not because it impacted me personally but because of its sheer weight.
Stella5
03-05-2012, 11:32 AM
No one has the b-day photo?
Sorry... was looking for both of them for you so you can compare for yourself.
HI surveillance
http://www.wral.com/specialreports/michelleyoung/image_gallery/9726666/
photo 25 is a good one...
Bday party
http://www.wral.com/specialreports/michelleyoung/image_gallery/9760453/
pic 6 is the "staged" shirt
Wolfpack
03-05-2012, 11:32 AM
Shoe styles aren't the only evidence that experts call "consistent" as their best description. Also in this list would be:
- hair (unless you can dna test an attached root)
- fibers
- bullets and gun (unless you can get the actual weapon, and match the pattern from a known bullet to one fired from the gun)
- knife (unless you can get the actual weapon and get a DNA match)
So is DNA, when there aren't enough alleles to create a perfect match.
Soil samples would be "consistent" as well.
luckyme
03-05-2012, 11:33 AM
I have a strong sense a G is coming. I have to say it is surreal to be here in person feet away from all of these people. It's an intense feeling to hear a verdict read that changes so many lives in the most profound way. I honestly almost passed out when the BC verdict was read. Not because it impacted me personally but because of its sheer weight.
R jurors still in there? R they looking at jason?
Was wondering does anyone have a link to the photo of him wearing the "shirt" @ CY b-day party... The one that is so called staged..
Thanks
http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t189/zed0101/Youngstring.jpg
Boodles
03-05-2012, 11:33 AM
Beth Karas face book just said....jurors 8,10,11,12 stepped down to look at CY pajamas and jeans,put on gloves, juror 12 didnt stay to look at jeans.
I wish that juror diagram was a sticky! I can't find it when I try to scroll back so many pages...
cody100
03-05-2012, 11:33 AM
Here's how the items the jury asked for will be interpreted:
- The NG folks will see this as benefiting the NG position
- The G folks will see this as benefiting the G position
- The hung jury folks will see this as continuing to divide the jury
And the rest of the folks will not know what it all means.
I have no idea what it means either other than they are thinking about the case.
aliciabal
03-05-2012, 11:34 AM
Regardless of the verdict they render, I'm grateful they are actually deliberating amd appear to be putting a lot of care into their decision. I must say, I'm on the edge of my seat.
Madeleine74
03-05-2012, 11:35 AM
iucpa, is it the feeling of 'tension in the air' that is causing your feelings of G?
jrb0124
03-05-2012, 11:40 AM
Jurors 8, 10, 11, 12 stepped down from the jury box to examine Cassidy's pajamas and Young's jeans. They all put on gloves. Juror 12 returned to her seat after looking at the pjs; she didn't stay to examine the jeans. I wonder if these 4 jurors (3 women and 1 man) are split from the other 8. Not necessarily but maybe...
This might indicate a difference of opinion of whther or not CY was removed from the house and returned, the implication being that if so - the G's would likely have to concur there was an accomplice.
tarheellvr
03-05-2012, 11:40 AM
iucpa.....what do JY and his attorneys look like this AM? Is there tension from their perspective?
thanks, by the way, for your reports!
praying for justice for Michelle Marie Fisher Young and her unborn son Rylan.
please God, let there be a guilty verdict today.....please!
iucpa
03-05-2012, 11:41 AM
None of them looke at anybody. Only a couple touched the jeans. They appeared more interested in Cy's pjs. I am convinced juror 6 is a G lock. Thought it from the first time I saw her. She didn't come down and look at anything. The foreperson carries herself with confidence. Jason is very calm, joking. Reading the sports section of the N&O. Said good morning to his mom. I'm surprised he doesn't sit and talk with her while the jury is out. This might be the last time he can ever spend with her as a free man. I'll stick around until 12:30 in case they come back quickly after seeing the evidence.
Boodles
03-05-2012, 11:41 AM
Thinking....
If they are debating some evidence, why wouldn't all jurors be interested in viewing the evidence, if only to confirm their conclusions. How interesting that some jurors did not review the evidence requested. Thinking that if I had a strong opinion about something and it was being questioned I would still look at it with the others...
I know, it doesn't make sense to speculate what they're thinking...
gracielee
03-05-2012, 11:41 AM
iucpa, is it the feeling of 'tension in the air' that is causing your feelings of G?
iucpa, is Beth Karas in the courtroom or is she tweeting from Calif.?
the couger
03-05-2012, 11:42 AM
Was there ever a picture of the toes of the shoes,found in the back of vehicle, showed? I would like to compare the toes of them to pictures.
hindsight2020
03-05-2012, 11:42 AM
Beth Karas InSession
Correction: The first jurors to examine the clothes were from the front row. Now three jurors from the back row (jurors 1, 2, and 5) are looking at them. So, 7 of the 12 jurors opted to inspect the clothes; 5 remained in their seats in the jury box.
iucpa
03-05-2012, 11:42 AM
iucpa.....what do JY and his attorneys look like this AM? Is there tension from their perspective?
thanks, by the way, for your reports!
praying for justice for Michelle Marie Fisher Young and her unborn son Rylan.
please God, let there be a guilty verdict today.....please!
Jason himself appears very relaxed. His attorneys seem indifferent. Not sure that's the right word but it's neither worried or confident. It's very quiet in here.
Wolfpack
03-05-2012, 11:43 AM
Thinking....
If they are debating some evidence, why wouldn't all jurors be interested in viewing the evidence, if only to confirm their conclusions. How interesting that some jurors did not review the evidence requested.
Some are probably of the opinion "I've seen it once, and made up my mind, I don't need to see it again." Dangerous for either side if we want to keep from hanging.
I would NEVER say anything negative about a jury. They have a very hard job and IMO, we, the public, need to appreciate them instead of criticizing them. That goes even if they return a verdict I disagree with. I am not in the heads of any juror and I sincerely believe they put a lot of thought into their decision and I may not agree with it but I am not going to criticize a one of them. Also, who are we to remark about, what time they start deliberating, when they request a break, or lunch, when to end the day of deliberations...
This decision is one they will live with the rest of their lives,it has to be mind boggling when you think of the responsibility on their shoulders.. AMOO.
I agree! I hate when people comment rudely about jurors!!!
aliciabal
03-05-2012, 11:43 AM
This might indicate a difference of opinion of whther or not CY was removed from the house and returned, the implication being that if so - the G's would likely have to concur there was an accomplice.
I'm of the opinion he likely had help. I wonder if the jurors feel that way?
hindsight2020
03-05-2012, 11:43 AM
Beth Karas InSession 11:40am
Jurors just sent out another note, ten minutes after resuming deliberations (after looking at evidence in the courtroom for an hour).
Grammy Jean
03-05-2012, 11:44 AM
Sorry... was looking for both of them for you so you can compare for yourself.
HI surveillance
http://www.wral.com/specialreports/michelleyoung/image_gallery/9726666/
photo 25 is a good one...
Bday party
http://www.wral.com/specialreports/michelleyoung/image_gallery/9760453/
pic 6 is the "staged" shirt
Look at pic #19 from HI pics, no way are they the same jeans with those big cargo pockets on the back that were recovered in JY's vehicle. I wish jury had asked for HI pics in addition to their request for CB pics.
gracielee
03-05-2012, 11:45 AM
Was there ever a picture of the toes of the shoes,found in the back of vehicle, showed? I would like to compare the toes of them to pictures.
PHotos of the shoes were shown. If you are referring to the pointy, squared off, worn lookig shoes. Also brown slip ons, but looking nothing like the rounded toe shoes.
jrb0124
03-05-2012, 11:47 AM
I'm of the opinion he likely had help. I wonder if the jurors feel that way?
I am convinced he had an accomplice(s) - just not sure what they did vs what JY did, and when each event happened.
You'd think at least a few jurors would link the size 10's, CY circumstances, and FH + CB testimony with accomplice(s).
iucpa
03-05-2012, 11:47 AM
iucpa, is Beth Karas in the courtroom or is she tweeting from Calif.?
No idea what she looks like.
nursebeeme
03-05-2012, 11:48 AM
Beth Karas InSession 11:40am
Jurors just sent out another note, ten minutes after resuming deliberations (after looking at evidence in the courtroom for an hour).
just now? (not seeing this tweet on the wral feed)
tia
gracielee
03-05-2012, 11:48 AM
Anybody, Is Beth Karras in the courtroom live, viewing?? Or is she tweeting from Calif.? Please??
Stella5
03-05-2012, 11:48 AM
ANother note has been sent to the judge per IS
SteelerGirl43
03-05-2012, 11:49 AM
Sorry... was looking for both of them for you so you can compare for yourself.
HI surveillance
http://www.wral.com/specialreports/michelleyoung/image_gallery/9726666/
photo 25 is a good one...
Bday party
http://www.wral.com/specialreports/michelleyoung/image_gallery/9760453/
pic 6 is the "staged" shirt
Thank you.... I don't see the photo as being staged.... Looks like a normal b-day party shot....
Now looking @ the shirt at the b-day party and then looking at the ones in the slides of photos IMO the b-day party shot matches 59 & 60.... And that is the shirt he had on after changing, right??
gracielee
03-05-2012, 11:49 AM
No idea what she looks like.
Tiny blond, reports with vinnie on HLN, guest on other programs.
SteelerGirl43
03-05-2012, 11:50 AM
I am convinced he had an accomplice(s) - just not sure what they did vs what JY did, and when each event happened.
You'd think at least a few jurors would link the size 10's, CY circumstances, and FH + CB testimony with accomplice(s).
I would be questioning the size 10 shoes..
nursebeeme
03-05-2012, 11:50 AM
Beth Karas @BethKaras Close
Jurors just sent out another note, ten minutes after resuming deliberations (after looking at evidence in the courtroom for an hour).
http://twitter.com/#!/bethkaras
Stella5
03-05-2012, 11:50 AM
Look at pic #19 from HI pics, no way are they the same jeans with those big cargo pockets on the back that were recovered in JY's vehicle. I wish jury had asked for HI pics in addition to their request for CB pics.
yep i agree! also look at him at the front desk. he has a water bottle in his hand, not a cigar. where's the cigar? i've never none a cigar smoker to shove it in his pocket & risk crushing it. moo
Madeleine74
03-05-2012, 11:50 AM
Beth Karas is live in the courtroom. She is not outside, she is not in CA. She was there on Fri. I spoke to her in person for awhile.
Because in NC a verdict is read fairly quickly (like 15 min at most after announcement a verdict has been reached), she cannot take the chance of missing it due to being outside. Elevators are slow, etc. So she stays in or right around the courtroom during the verdict watch for this trial and then calls in or tweets her updates. She told me this on Friday. During lunch breaks or after court she then goes outside to do her in-person video reports.
Grammy Jean
03-05-2012, 11:51 AM
Was there ever a picture of the toes of the shoes,found in the back of vehicle, showed? I would like to compare the toes of them to pictures.
I saw them in court on the day they displayed evidence to jury they were a definite square toed rather worn pair of shoes. Another pair was a suede tan hiking sort of shoe. None looked like the shoes in CB and HI pics.
iucpa
03-05-2012, 11:51 AM
Det. Spivey is he only one here on the PT side. MF and LF both gone.
aliciabal
03-05-2012, 11:52 AM
I think Beth Karas is reporting live from court.
hindsight2020
03-05-2012, 11:52 AM
just now? (not seeing this tweet on the wral feed)
tia
@11:40am, FB. . . . there is/was no feed from nbc or abc yet
the couger
03-05-2012, 11:53 AM
PHotos of the shoes were shown. If you are referring to the pointy, squared off, worn lookig shoes. Also brown slip ons, but looking nothing like the rounded toe shoes.
I am referring specifically to the shoes in the vehicle on the driver side in the back of the SUV.. I just don't recall a picture of the shoes toes that was stated to be the ones in the back...
luckyme
03-05-2012, 11:53 AM
Anybody, Is Beth Karras in the courtroom live, viewing?? Or is she tweeting from Calif.? Please??
Yes she is there!:seeya:
iucpa
03-05-2012, 11:54 AM
I don't believe Beth is here now. I saw her sitting outside on set the other day.
Stella5
03-05-2012, 11:54 AM
Thank you.... I don't see the photo as being staged.... Looks like a normal b-day party shot....
Now looking @ the shirt at the b-day party and then looking at the ones in the slides of photos IMO the b-day party shot matches 59 & 60.... And that is the shirt he had on after changing, right??
The HI shirt has a collar and what appears to be a zip up front; the bday party shot is a crew neck. Definitely a different shirt. It's a normal bday party picture, but the DT tried to say it was the same shirt once upon a time... it's not.
gracielee
03-05-2012, 11:54 AM
Beth Karas is live in the courtroom. She is not outside, she is not in CA. She was there on Fri. I spoke to her in person for awhile.
Because in NC a verdict is read fairly quickly (like 15 at most after announcement a verdict has been reached), she cannot take the chance of missing it due to being outside. Elevators are slow, etc. So she stays in or right around the courtroom during the verdict watch for this trial and then calls in or tweets her updates. She told me this on Friday.
Okay, I thought perhaps she might have gone home for the weekend. I'd seen you spoke to her on Friday, but heard nothing since. Sometimes she flies back to Calif. Was hoping she'd be here today, but hadn't seen nor heard from her this a.m. Thanks.
Madeleine74
03-05-2012, 11:55 AM
juror #6 is the older black lady, IIRC. My guess is she is in her 60's, though that's because of the gray color of her hair.
luckyme
03-05-2012, 11:56 AM
Okay, I thought perhaps she might have gone home for the weekend. I'd seen you spoke to her on Friday, but heard nothing since. Sometimes she flies back to Calif. Was hoping she'd be here today, but hadn't seen nor heard from her this a.m. Thanks.
She was on IS this morning at nine. she was in front of court house!
Madeleine74
03-05-2012, 11:56 AM
Okay, I thought perhaps she might have gone home for the weekend. I'd seen you spoke to her on Friday, but heard nothing since. Sometimes she flies back to Calif. Was hoping she'd be here today, but hadn't seen nor heard from her this a.m. Thanks.
She's actually out of NYC, which is where her home is. She said she was staying in town this past weekend and I assume she did. TruTV studios (which was known as CourtTV back in the day) are headquartered in NYC.
IlliniFan
03-05-2012, 11:57 AM
Just wanted to thank everyone for their posts/updates. I'm trying to catch up!
It is difficult to keep yourself from reading something into to the jury requests. I agree though, that it is impossible, as it could mean anything. I'm glad they are doing their job.
~n/t~
03-05-2012, 11:58 AM
What was the note from the jurors ?
Grammy Jean
03-05-2012, 11:58 AM
Thank you.... I don't see the photo as being staged.... Looks like a normal b-day party shot....
Now looking @ the shirt at the b-day party and then looking at the ones in the slides of photos IMO the b-day party shot matches 59 & 60.... And that is the shirt he had on after changing, right??
When Spivey testified he had pics of both shirts side by side fro the jury to see this trail and pointed out the very apparent differences in the shirt. DT did not even try to suggest these were pics of the same shirt this trial.
iucpa
03-05-2012, 11:59 AM
There is an increased police presence here. But I saw that as the BC and first JY trial neared a verdict.
SteelerGirl43
03-05-2012, 11:59 AM
The HI shirt has a collar and what appears to be a zip up front; the bday party shot is a crew neck. Definitely a different shirt. It's a normal bday party picture, but the DT tried to say it was the same shirt once upon a time... it's not.
Sorry but it looks the same to me.... I mean what kind of chance would you have finding 2 shirts that have the stripe in the same position... I put the photos in PS and blew them up... Even sent them to some ladies who I design graphics with & they all agree its the same... MOO
~n/t~
03-05-2012, 11:59 AM
I find it interesting they wanted to look at CY's pj's. Any thoughts as to why?:waitasec:
gracielee
03-05-2012, 11:59 AM
Is it as windy in town today as it is out here in the boonies? The wind is howling, windows rattling, extremely windy in Johnston Co. today.
pjcitizen
03-05-2012, 11:59 AM
:gasp:
terminatrixator
03-05-2012, 12:00 PM
The victim is entitled to the person who murdered them to be, arrested, brought to trial and convicted.. IMO, this defendant did not murder Michelle Young and if I am correct and he is convicted, the victim has NOT received justice. MOO
The victim, which includes the family & friends that suffer the loss of their loved ones, which includes Linda, Meredith & Cassidy, continually get revictimized over and over again. There really truly is no justice. If Slayer is found not guilty, there will not be any Justice. If Jason walks, it will show how truly screwed up the CSI syndrome has become and there will need to be reform of our judicial system.
Just because you are a sociopath and kill your significant other and spouse, it shouldn't make it okay to get away with murder.
More and more of these guys are getting away with murder and just because there is no witness, no murder weapon it shouldn't give sociopaths like Jason Young a free pass. <modsnip>
I also think there needs to be jury reform because I don't believe in all certainty that jurors are going home and watching dvd's and not looking at news stories, comments and conducting their own little search and won't happen upon sites news comments <modsnip>
In this day and age where it's better to be against the system than for it, I don't have as much faith in "jury of peers" as I once I did.
This is just my opinion, I wonder if I'm the only person who has such thoughts regarding this and other cases.
jrb0124
03-05-2012, 12:01 PM
I find it interesting they wanted to look at CY's pj's. Any thoughts as to why?:waitasec:
IMO, its to determine/support whether she was taken and then returned to the house i.e. pajamas cleaned/laundered. JY would not have had enough time to do that, so someone else must have (whether an accomplice to JY or not).
gracielee
03-05-2012, 12:01 PM
Sorry but it looks the same to me.... I mean what kind of chance would you have finding 2 shirts that have the stripe in the same position... I put the photos in PS and blew them up... Even sent them to some ladies who I design graphics with & they all agree its the same... MOO
Well the defense didn't dispute the testimony that the shirts were different.
Grammy Jean
03-05-2012, 12:03 PM
Sorry but it looks the same to me.... I mean what kind of chance would you have finding 2 shirts that have the stripe in the same position... I put the photos in PS and blew them up... Even sent them to some ladies who I design graphics with & they all agree its the same... MOO
Look at he neckline obvious different shirt. Again DT did not even go there this trial
iucpa
03-05-2012, 12:03 PM
Is it as windy in town today as it is out here in the boonies? The wind is howling, windows rattling, extremely windy in Johnston Co. today.
Yes. As I walked into the courthouse it was howling and freezing. Very cold inside the courtroom as well.
Wolfpack
03-05-2012, 12:03 PM
I find it interesting they wanted to look at CY's pj's. Any thoughts as to why?:waitasec:
My guess is to see if she was "cleaned up" or something to that nature. Perhaps the amount of time she was up and moving around?
azwildcat
03-05-2012, 12:05 PM
Sorry but it looks the same to me.... I mean what kind of chance would you have finding 2 shirts that have the stripe in the same position... I put the photos in PS and blew them up... Even sent them to some ladies who I design graphics with & they all agree its the same... MOO
The thickness of the stripe is different in the two shirts. That's the only way I can really see the difference, since the hotel image doesn't make it easy for me to see if it's a sweater with a collar, or a shirt with a collar underneath. But the thickness of the stripe seems quite different.
Lori59
03-05-2012, 12:05 PM
Iucpa.....So did the jurors look at any other of the items requested besides CY pajamas and the jeans??
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