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Jupiter812
08-07-2012, 09:56 AM
Based on the latest article provided by jupiter, Im thinking this could be her. The Sr Deputy Coroners use of the word "new" tests, suggest there has already preliminary tests. The deputy coroner used the word "subsequence" which also suggests to me that there's been a preliminary test. Assuming we are not dealing a power struggle within the Marion County Coroners office, im thinking that the preliminary tests ,at least, could not eliminate Lauren. .They could also, had recieved only a phone call from the patholigist and are waiting for the official paper report. I do think the Sr Deputy Coroner taking over with the Media is telling that the skull is from a young female.

I think some of what's going on is bureaucratic. That is, they must abide by proper procedure--they can't go forward without the official paperwork.

The fact that the senior coroner said "in deference to the Spierer family" could be telling too. To say this publicly she risks great criticism by those who feel Lauren has been getting too much attention.

But prior to that she implies they don't even know the gender or race; however, again she may be referring to "in writing."

jjenny
08-07-2012, 10:11 AM
I think some of what's going on is bureaucratic. That is, they must abide by proper procedure--they can't go forward without the official paperwork.

The fact that the senior coroner said "in deference to the Spierer family" could be telling too. To say this publicly she risks great criticism by those who feel Lauren has been getting too much attention.

But prior to that she implies they don't even know the gender or race; however, again she may be referring to "in writing."

I can't make heads or tails of what they are doing, so I am just going to wait. Dental records don't take weeks to compare. And the skull supposedly had its teeth. And normally its enough to do a dental record comparison without then going for DNA testing. So, I am clueless as to what is going on with this comparison.

Jacobite
08-07-2012, 10:12 AM
I hope that skull has not been gathering dust while humans are on a sit and spin. Too many cooks ruin the soup. Humans must establish a pecking order before they can get to work.
It was a dog that gave me any clue concerning this case at all. Maybe, it will be a dog that solves the case. There are trained water dogs that can find you underwater more than a year later.

jjenny
08-07-2012, 10:15 AM
I hope that skull has not been gathering dust while humans are on a sit and spin. Too many cooks ruin the soup.

I guess that is another option. That they haven't been actually testing it yet.

akh
08-07-2012, 10:19 AM
I guess that is another option. That they haven't been actually testing it yet.


I guess that is now a real possibility- The case is truly a cold case and there's no longer any urgency or priority.

Snapfade
08-07-2012, 10:42 AM
Based on the latest article provided by jupiter, Im thinking this could be her. The Sr Deputy Coroners use of the word "new" tests, suggest there has already preliminary tests. The deputy coroner used the word "subsequence" which also suggests to me that there's been a preliminary test. Assuming we are not dealing a power struggle within the Marion County Coroners office, im thinking that the preliminary tests ,at least, could not eliminate Lauren. .They could also, had recieved only a phone call from the patholigist and are waiting for the official paper report. I do think the Sr Deputy Coroner taking over with the Media is telling that the skull is from a young female.

cluciano63
08-07-2012, 11:11 AM
If the teeth did not match Lauren, or anyone else they have on file, they may need DNA to see if there is anyone with DNA on file that is a match...I don't know. Somehow, I do not believe this will turn out to be Lauren.

British
08-07-2012, 11:11 AM
Based on the latest article provided by jupiter, Im thinking this could be her. The Sr Deputy Coroners use of the word "new" tests, suggest there has already preliminary tests. The deputy coroner used the word "subsequence" which also suggests to me that there's been a preliminary test. Assuming we are not dealing a power struggle within the Marion County Coroners office, im thinking that the preliminary tests ,at least, could not eliminate Lauren. .They could also, had recieved only a phone call from the patholigist and are waiting for the official paper report. I do think the Sr Deputy Coroner taking over with the Media is telling that the skull is from a young female.

I really dont get it with them. It takes a couple of days at most to do the PCR that would establish whether there is a DNA match or not. Why are they so slow? Too much bureaucracy. If that is how slow they operate on everything, it figures why the case has not been solved yet.

Jacobite
08-07-2012, 11:11 AM
This may be the most publicized missing person case in history since Helen and Troy.
Millions want answers now and we want to believe someone is going to work looking for those answers.

jjenny
08-07-2012, 11:17 AM
If the teeth did not match Lauren, or anyone else they have on file, they may need DNA to see if there is anyone with DNA on file that is a match...I don't know. Somehow, I do not believe this will turn out to be Lauren.

If she is ruled out by dental comparison they don't need to wait for DNA results at all to say it's not her.
And dental comparison doesn't take 8 weeks. You take x-rays of the skull, you compare to x-rays from the victim-how long can that possibly take? A day at the most?

cluciano63
08-07-2012, 11:31 AM
If she is ruled out by dental comparison they don't need to wait for DNA results at all to say it's not her.
And dental comparison doesn't take 8 weeks. You take x-rays of the skull, you compare to x-rays from the victim-how long can that possibly take? A day at the most?

I know...I am just frustrated. I hope they don't mess this up in some way that ends up helping a defense for some killer down the line...no matter who this is.

Ros
08-07-2012, 11:38 AM
I disagree with this as I lived at Lake Clearwater apartments for the past two years (just recently moved out of state) . Our apartment was right on the back end of the lake and most nights was eerily quiet. Yes during the day the bridge that runs along 82nd and 86th by the fashion mall is heavily travelled. But at night is very quiet and easily accessible with little possibility of being noticed. Also with the closing of the UNOs on the corner last year it would make it even easier . I often drove by the area late at night on my way home from the gym and would see a random car or two parked just off the lake and never really thought twice.

I hope that this is her in fact, I have followed the case since day one and this family deserves closure and I hope that day occurs soon for them

You're right. I had forgotten about UNO's closing.

Ros
08-07-2012, 11:40 AM
This may be the most publicized missing person case in history since Helen and Troy.
Millions want answers now and we want to believe someone is going to work looking for those answers.

Probably not the most publicized - remember Jimmy Hoffa and Ambrose Bierce?

Jupiter812
08-07-2012, 01:31 PM
The other night I had an awesome dream about guardians who are watching over and protecting Lauren and this case. They are heavily armored but not with guns. They are not going to allow the baddies in. Maybe the guardians represent the coroner officials, lab personnel, detectives.

Darcyline
08-07-2012, 03:55 PM
The head definitely could have separated naturally. I am confused by what is going on too, but if the preliminary tests were negative they would have ruled her out. They were either positive or inconclusive. Part of me doesn't want this to be her so I am biased toward inconclusive which, sometimes, comparing dentals IS inconclusive.
However, part of me also feels like they think it is her and are just making 100% sure now :(

jjenny
08-07-2012, 04:19 PM
The head definitely could have separated naturally. I am confused by what is going on too, but if the preliminary tests were negative they would have ruled her out. They were either positive or inconclusive. Part of me doesn't want this to be her so I am biased toward inconclusive which, sometimes, comparing dentals IS inconclusive.
However, part of me also feels like they think it is her and are just making 100% sure now :(

What would be the reason for inconclusive dental comparison? Perfect teeth with no fillings?

Jupiter812
08-07-2012, 04:29 PM
This is enlightening. It's referring to teeth marks on a victim, so on the victim herself it would be even easier to ID:

"Forensic odontology works on the principle that no two people have exactly the same dental imprints. Extractions, fillings, chipped, gapped, or closely spaced teeth can all be used to identify who the teeth marks are from. Some teeth may even be twisted or tilted. Even with individuals who have had their teeth straightened through the use of braces, there will be some distinctive features that can be used to identify them based on their dental work."

http://www.wisegeek.com/what-is-forensic-odontology.htm

raeann
08-07-2012, 04:33 PM
This may be the most publicized missing person case in history since Helen and Troy.
Millions want answers now and we want to believe someone is going to work looking for those answers.

I may have missed some info somewhere, but who are Helen and Troy? Does this refer to Helen OF Troy.....the mythical character?

Lauren's case is really very LOW on the publicized list...no where NEAR the coverage of cases like Natalie Holloway, or Elizabeth Smart, or the younger children like Caylee. Unfortunately, outside of forums such as this, hardly any attention is given to this case other than perhaps some small amount of lingering local interest. Even the university barely acknowledges it anymore. That doesn't mean many people aren't anxious for a resolution, but honestly, outside of this forum, I have heard not even one mention of the case on cable news for over a YEAR.

jmo

jjenny
08-07-2012, 04:38 PM
This is enlightening. It's referring to teeth marks on a victim, so on the victim herself it would be even easier to ID:

"Forensic odontology works on the principle that no two people have exactly the same dental imprints. Extractions, fillings, chipped, gapped, or closely spaced teeth can all be used to identify who the teeth marks are from. Some teeth may even be twisted or tilted. Even with individuals who have had their teeth straightened through the use of braces, there will be some distinctive features that can be used to identify them based on their dental work."

http://www.wisegeek.com/what-is-forensic-odontology.htm

Which is why you wouldn't remove one tooth from the skull for dental comparison. You don't just want to have a tooth away from the skull. You want to see the combination of teeth in the skull to see how they are spaced, tilted, twisted, etc. What was reported on tooth being removed for dental comparison makes no sense.

raeann
08-07-2012, 04:38 PM
What would be the reason for inconclusive dental comparison? Perfect teeth with no fillings?

Perhaps damage from a blow to the jaw which broke some teeth and bone or maybe caused a tooth or two to be missing, or a gunshot to the mouth area, etc.?

jmo

sweet_blush
08-07-2012, 06:31 PM
Hello Websleuths.

I would like to introduce myself, I am sweet_blush (an anagram of websleuths).

I joined WS to discuss LS specifically.

I have paid close attention to this situation from the very beginning, on many forums including Gatto's blog, and I can most likely answer any questions concerning PT.

I would like to see closure for the Spierer family, as well as the communities, both online and IRL... that have been impacted by this tragedy.

Hello my new WS friends...

cluciano63
08-07-2012, 06:35 PM
Hello Websleuths.

I would like to introduce myself, I am sweet_blush (an anagram of websleuths).

I joined WS to discuss LS specifically.

I have paid close attention to this situation from the very beginning, on many forums including Gatto's blog, and I can most likely answer any questions concerning PT.

I would like to see closure for the Spierer family, as well as the communities, both online and IRL... that have been impacted by this tragedy.

Hello my new WS friends...

Welcome to WS...
I have to ask, what is PT? I probably should know by now, but can't think what that stands for.

Hope you post often and enjoy WS; we take missing persons very seriously and Lauren is special to a lot of us.

Igor
08-07-2012, 06:49 PM
Welcome to WS...
I have to ask, what is PT? I probably should know by now, but can't think what that stands for.

Hope you post often and enjoy WS; we take missing persons very seriously and Lauren is special to a lot of us.

It's short for 'PhantasyTour.com' -- a Phish message board where some people who were close to those involved in the case posted pretty candid remarks when LS first disappeared. I'm pretty sure JW's brother made some pretty charged statements about JR on there.

If you do go there, please know that some of the dregs that troll there are not indicative of the phish community as a whole! Overall we're decent people, the less desirables just seem to gather there.

Jacobite
08-07-2012, 06:51 PM
I may have missed some info somewhere, but who are Helen and Troy? Does this refer to Helen OF Troy.....the mythical character?

Lauren's case is really very LOW on the publicized list...no where NEAR the coverage of cases like Natalie Holloway, or Elizabeth Smart, or the younger children like Caylee. Unfortunately, outside of forums such as this, hardly any attention is given to this case other than perhaps some small amount of lingering local interest. Even the university barely acknowledges it anymore. That doesn't mean many people aren't anxious for a resolution, but honestly, outside of this forum, I have heard not even one mention of the case on cable news for over a YEAR.

jmo

Now, Helen was not of Troy. She was Greek and kidnapped by Troy. And, many would argue that she was a real person who lived more than three thousand years ago.

Lauren's story has made the British press more than a dozen times. She has hit the American networks several times this summer. She's far more than a Indiana story and this is because her supporters have worked very hard to get the word out. They've done good work.

Darcyline
08-07-2012, 07:05 PM
What would be the reason for inconclusive dental comparison? Perfect teeth with no fillings?

You know, I am honestly not sure. I have seen it fairly frequently in the Unidentified forum though. Sometimes I think inconclusive means positive except we are making sure, but I have actually seen inconclusive turn out to be negative once they do DNA tests.
Maybe condition of teeth? Or "generic" teeth issues? Like, lets say the last X-Ray Lauren had was clean, but she was developing a cavity or two when she disappeared. So, if they were looking for totally clean teeth and found one with some cavities they shouldn't immediately rule out or in. I know that isn't all they look for, but I think it is the easiest and fastest way to make an initial match or rule out. I guess it just depends on how recent the X-rays are, the type of issues, how unique the issues or work on the teeth performed are, etc.

Jacobite
08-07-2012, 07:22 PM
The other night I had an awesome dream about guardians who are watching over and protecting Lauren and this case. They are heavily armored but not with guns. They are not going to allow the baddies in. Maybe the guardians represent the coroner officials, lab personnel, detectives.

Perhaps this dream can be interpreted. Lauren will be returned to her family.
The truth will come out. The bad boy will be caught. Justice will be served.

Jupiter812
08-07-2012, 07:51 PM
Perhaps damage from a blow to the jaw which broke some teeth and bone or maybe caused a tooth or two to be missing, or a gunshot to the mouth area, etc.?

jmo

It was reported that there was no injury to the skull.

Jupiter812
08-07-2012, 07:59 PM
Perhaps this dream can be interpreted. Lauren will be returned to her family.
The truth will come out. The bad boy will be caught. Justice will be served.

Yes, hopefully the 4' 11" girl will be returned to the Empire State where she belongs and where dreams are made.

Jupiter812
08-07-2012, 08:10 PM
Hello Websleuths.

I would like to introduce myself, I am sweet_blush (an anagram of websleuths).

I joined WS to discuss LS specifically.

I have paid close attention to this situation from the very beginning, on many forums including Gatto's blog, and I can most likely answer any questions concerning PT.

I would like to see closure for the Spierer family, as well as the communities, both online and IRL... that have been impacted by this tragedy.

Hello my new WS friends...

Welcome, that's a great anagram! Is there anything you would like us to know about PT?

The questions I have are not about PT generally but about the veracity of postings such as those by JW's roommates, the drug rumors, and bits about ZO. I take it you cannot confirm or deny the postings but perhaps based on your experience there you can provide supplementary info.

Do you know any of the first- or second-tier POI?

What's your theory about what happened?

raeann
08-07-2012, 08:39 PM
Now, Helen was not of Troy. She was Greek and kidnapped by Troy. And, many would argue that she was a real person who lived more than three thousand years ago.

Lauren's story has made the British press more than a dozen times. She has hit the American networks several times this summer. She's far more than a Indiana story and this is because her supporters have worked very hard to get the word out. They've done good work.


Regarding the reference to Helen of Troy:

Kidnapped by THESEUS according to the story....Troy, however, is a city/place/location....as involved in the TROJAN war. The story of Helen comes from The Iliad by Homer. While archaeological evidence supports the existence of Troy and of a war or series of wars involving that area, the actual existence of Helen is not documented and may very well be a creation of the author. One of a vast number of references discussing this legend is provided at National Geographic link below.

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2004/05/0514_040514_troy_2.html


Regarding Lauren:

Lauren's story WAS well covered for a few weeks nationally, but no where even remotely as much as Natalie or Elizabeth or many others have been. Her supporters have concentrated on getting the word out in the proper areas. The possibility that she is anywhere other than the Indiana area is remote at best.

jmo

sweet_blush
08-07-2012, 09:05 PM
Welcome, that's a great anagram! Is there anything you would like us to know about PT?

The questions I have are not about PT generally but about the veracity of postings such as those by JW's roommates, the drug rumors, and bits about ZO. I take it you cannot confirm or deny the postings but perhaps based on your experience there you can provide supplementary info.

Do you know any of the first- or second-tier POI?

What's your theory about what happened?hello, yes. Jupiter, I post (or posted ') as 'doreatha' on PT before I was banned.

Jupiter, your, amongst others here, tenacity and dedication is partly why I joined WS.

.... (just figuring out WS functions, will be back)

sweet_blush
08-07-2012, 09:23 PM
"The questions I have are not about PT generally but about the veracity of postings such as those by JW's roommates, the drug rumors, and bits about ZO. I take it you cannot confirm or deny the postings but perhaps based on your experience there you can provide supplementary info."

JW's roomMATE, Aaronwg... is definitely legitimately JW's roommate. What he said on PT is debatable, I got into a small debate with Elmomom, who joined PT to challenge my assertions that I believe that JW is completely uninvolved with Lauren's disappearance.

I still believe that JW should be dropped from the POI list. Bo Dietl's latest statement about JW lawyering up too quickly has me wondering, but I feel like Bo Dietl is beating the bushes for rabbits LONG after the fact.....

British
08-07-2012, 09:35 PM
"The questions I have are not about PT generally but about the veracity of postings such as those by JW's roommates, the drug rumors, and bits about ZO. I take it you cannot confirm or deny the postings but perhaps based on your experience there you can provide supplementary info."

JW's roomMATE, Aaronwg... is definitely legitimately JW's roommate. What he said on PT is debatable, I got into a small debate with Elmomom, who joined PT to challenge my assertions that I believe that JW is completely uninvolved with Lauren's disappearance.

I still believe that JW should be dropped from the POI list. Bo Dietl's latest statement about JW lawyering up too quickly has me wondering, but I feel like Bo Dietl is beating the bushes for rabbits LONG after the fact.....

Or maybe Bo Dietl is playing a game with the real POIs. I also dont believe that JW was involved. His actions the next days were consistent with someone who was innocent. Hiring a lawyer was odd, but my guess is that his parents insisted that he should get one as he could become a target for being the bf.

Snapfade
08-07-2012, 09:37 PM
The media attention or a preliminary test that didnt rule out Lauren may have caught the coroners office off guard a bit. .......The Sr. Deputy Coroner takes the lead with media. The Coroners office begins to follow step by step procedures,to insure a defense attorney doesnt embarrass their office in a high profile trial......just a possibility....

sweet_blush
08-07-2012, 09:45 PM
PT is a strange and mysterious place. Like a Rose, it has a lot of thorns, intended to keep the uninitiated away from the beauty within ;)

Here is one of PT's biggest contributions to this unfortunate situation...

Chickjustin sleuthed the FB concerning the poster known as Ray_Anastasio, who synchronitically went to HS with MB.... AND, is close friends with all FOUR of JR's roommates from NJ.

Long story, but my point is that ChickJustin sleuthed the DB tweet from the Runcible Spoon, from stalking Ray_Anastasio's FB.

cluciano63
08-07-2012, 09:47 PM
If Lauren's parents, at least, do not know by now whether or not this is Lauren, that is a disgrace. This is not the 1800's; there is no way it should take a month to identify remains.

elmomom
08-07-2012, 10:03 PM
"The questions I have are not about PT generally but about the veracity of postings such as those by JW's roommates, the drug rumors, and bits about ZO. I take it you cannot confirm or deny the postings but perhaps based on your experience there you can provide supplementary info."

JW's roomMATE, Aaronwg... is definitely legitimately JW's roommate. What he said on PT is debatable, I got into a small debate with Elmomom, who joined PT to challenge my assertions that I believe that JW is completely uninvolved with Lauren's disappearance.

I still believe that JW should be dropped from the POI list. Bo Dietl's latest statement about JW lawyering up too quickly has me wondering, but I feel like Bo Dietl is beating the bushes for rabbits LONG after the fact.....

First, :welcome:

Second, I never once said that I believed JW was guilty. I just cannot agree that he is innocent. He is still a POI, and statistically, the most likely suspect.

Snapfade
08-07-2012, 10:09 PM
I wonder if bo dietl interviewed chickjustin.....if he did , I bet his head was doing circles afterwards.

jjenny
08-07-2012, 10:11 PM
It was reported that there was no injury to the skull.

Then I am really confused as to what they are doing with it all this time. I can't imagine why it would take more than a day to do a dental comparison. At the very least shouldn't they know by now if this was a young Caucasian female?

Jupiter812
08-07-2012, 10:14 PM
I wonder if bo dietl interviewed chickjustin.....if he did , I bet his head was doing circles afterwards.

Indeed! :floorlaugh:

This laugh is at good 'ole Bo, not Chickjustin.

Jupiter812
08-07-2012, 10:22 PM
PT is a strange and mysterious place. Like a Rose, it has a lot of thorns, intended to keep the uninitiated away from the beauty within ;)

Here is one of PT's biggest contributions to this unfortunate situation...

Chickjustin sleuthed the FB concerning the poster known as Ray_Anastasio, who synchronitically went to HS with MB.... AND, is close friends with all FOUR of JR's roommates from NJ.

Long story, but my point is that ChickJustin sleuthed the DB tweet from the Runcible Spoon, from stalking Ray_Anastasio's FB.

I remember reading Ray's posts. But Ray is not DB, correct? I'm still and always have been fairly comfortable that DB was JR's guest that night, and quite possibly the missing puzzle piece. Two unknowns resulting in a known, if that makes sense. My brain has to be able to settle on something at times.

Blythe
08-07-2012, 10:28 PM
About JW...

He slept soundly the night of June 3, apparently unconcerned that he had lost cellphone contact and been stood up and was unaware that LS was in poor shape and had negative contact with a group of his acquaintances. But by early morning June 4, JW is not angry but is panicked and "intuitively" suspects the worst so much so that he interrupts a roommate who is in class and eventually calls LS's parents. I have always wanted to know what he said and how he said it. The fact that he hasn't been standing by the Spierer's side also concerns me. (Save the replies about the attorney's advice... I am a humanities major)

Just a curiosity, not an accusation, and as always just a humble opinion.

Ros
08-07-2012, 10:57 PM
PT is a strange and mysterious place. Like a Rose, it has a lot of thorns, intended to keep the uninitiated away from the beauty within ;)

Here is one of PT's biggest contributions to this unfortunate situation...

Chickjustin sleuthed the FB concerning the poster known as Ray_Anastasio, who synchronitically went to HS with MB.... AND, is close friends with all FOUR of JR's roommates from NJ.

Long story, but my point is that ChickJustin sleuthed the DB tweet from the Runcible Spoon, from stalking Ray_Anastasio's FB.

How did ChickJustin connect Ray_Anastasio (a pseudonym) to his FB page, which is supposed to use his real name?

Jupiter812
08-07-2012, 11:05 PM
I remember reading Ray's posts. But Ray is not DB, correct? I'm still and always have been fairly comfortable that DB was JR's guest that night, and quite possibly the missing puzzle piece. Two unknowns resulting in a known, if that makes sense. My brain has to be able to settle on something at times.

Doh. Of course Ray is not DB. Okay, onto my next thought.

Reasons to support DB's possible involvement

Salzmann said there were three or four others that saw Lauren after CR.
It was said JR had a houseguest.
It was said JR had access to a vehicle that night.
The Detroit - Bloomington drug connection is real. He could have brought the party favors.
JR might be the only one to know DB's involvement, therefore there is no group conspiracy, the others just don't know; whereas JR, given his history and friendship with DB, might keep mum for him. Imagine if his parents are friends with DB's parents?! This is the stuff that Dominick Dunne used to write about.
The Tweet.
The IU boys could return to school unabashed because they didn't do the final deed.

Night, night...

Ros
08-07-2012, 11:16 PM
Doh. Of course Ray is not DB. Okay, onto my next thought.

Reasons to support DB's possible involvement

Salzmann said there were three or four others that saw Lauren after CR.
It was said JR had a houseguest.
It was said JR had access to a vehicle that night.
The Detroit - Bloomington drug connection is real. He could have brought the party favors.
JR might be the only one to know DB's involvement, therefore there is no group conspiracy, the others just don't know; whereas JR, given his history and friendship with DB, might keep mum for him. Imagine if his parents are friends with DB's parents?! This is the stuff that Dominick Dunne used to write about.
The Tweet.
The IU boys could return to school unabashed because they didn't do the final deed.

Night, night...

The only problem is how would CS know about DB if CR and MB did not know about DB? The only ones that had to have known about DB would be JR (who hosted DB) and HT (who told the news media that JR had a guest).

Also, early on, CS told the media that he had theories about the case and that he hoped LE acted on them. Wonder if DB was part of those theories.

Blythe
08-07-2012, 11:25 PM
Doh. Of course Ray is not DB. Okay, onto my next thought.

Reasons to support DB's possible involvement

Salzmann said there were three or four others that saw Lauren after CR.
It was said JR had a houseguest.
It was said JR had access to a vehicle that night.
The Detroit - Bloomington drug connection is real. He could have brought the party favors.
JR might be the only one to know DB's involvement, therefore there is no group conspiracy, the others just don't know; whereas JR, given his history and friendship with DB, might keep mum for him. Imagine if his parents are friends with DB's parents?! This is the stuff that Dominick Dunne used to write about.
The Tweet.
The IU boys could return to school unabashed because they didn't do the final deed.

Night, night...

As I recall, DB had very influential parents and a highly crafted resume; consequently, it is no accident that his name was never published by the media. I often wondered if he high tailed it out of town or if he had the hubris to get involved. It is another curiosity.

Snapfade
08-08-2012, 12:23 AM
As I recall, DB had very influential parents and a highly crafted resume; consequently, it is no accident that his name was never published by the media. I often wondered if he high tailed it out of town or if he had the hubris to get involved. It is another curiosity.
Thinking about DB has given me random thought. I assume that being a houseguest that he didnt have a bedroom to sleep in. He most likely slept on a couch in the living room . He would have been wittness to LS and JR coversation. LS may not have had anywhere to sleep. If she stayed, her choices were ,Share a couch or living room with DB. Or a bedroom with JR..neither looked appealing , so she walked home.....JR could have witnessed LS walking around the corner just like he said..and headed back to bed.. DB seen how messed up Lauren was and she looked like his last chance to "hook up" before leaving town..Talking about a potential crime of opportunity. He gets his car and offers her a ride home.
LS having no shoes and having just seen him on JR.s couch, accepts and away they go to michigan. He could have been eating cornbeef hash with Lauren in his trunk...He also could have planned on giving her a ride home and when it was obvious to him that nobody seen her get in his car, he changed his plans.... Just a plausible theory..

bx2
08-08-2012, 12:43 AM
How did ChickJustin connect Ray_Anastasio (a pseudonym) to his FB page, which is supposed to use his real name?

He used his real name elsewhere on that board. Not hard to find from there if you knew he was friends with roommates.

The only problem is how would CS know about DB if CR and MB did not know about DB? The only ones that had to have known about DB would be JR (who hosted DB) and HT (who told the news media that JR had a guest).


I don't think it would be a big leap to suggest that if DB was staying there, that he'd have been present at the pregame where both MB and CR were at.

bx2
08-08-2012, 12:55 AM
Thinking about DB has given me random thought. I assume that being a houseguest that he didnt have a bedroom to sleep in. He most likely slept on a couch in the living room . He would have been wittness to LS and JR coversation. LS may not have had anywhere to sleep. If she stayed, her choices were ,Share a couch or living room with DB. Or a bedroom with JR..neither looked appealing , so she walked home.....JR could have witnessed LS walking around the corner just like he said..and headed back to bed.. DB seen how messed up Lauren was and she looked like his last chance to "hook up" before leaving town..Talking about a potential crime of opportunity. He gets his car and offers her a ride home.
LS having no shoes and having just seen him on JR.s couch, accepts and away they go to michigan. He could have been eating cornbeef hash with Lauren in his trunk...He also could have planned on giving her a ride home and when it was obvious to him that nobody seen her get in his car, he changed his plans.... Just a plausible theory..

There were 4 open bedrooms at JR's place, so not sure how likely the couch stay would be. But, that doesn't take away much from this theory. Theoretically it didn't even have to be an opportunity, he could have just volunteered to give her a ride or walk her home and then something went bad. JR may even be telling the truth about the last time he saw her was her rounding the corner at 11th and College, while at the same time covering for his friend.

sweet_blush
08-08-2012, 01:32 AM
How did ChickJustin connect Ray_Anastasio (a pseudonym) to his FB page, which is supposed to use his real name?Because Ray really upset me, and in a moment of emotion, I posted his real name, and FB page on PT. Chick was lurking PT at the time and just happened to catch the post before it got modded.

ChickJustin for all that has been said about her... is a genius, I will give her that much ;)

sweet_blush
08-08-2012, 01:58 AM
Welcome, that's a great anagram! Is there anything you would like us to know about PT?

The questions I have are not about PT generally but about the veracity of postings such as those by JW's roommates, the drug rumors, and bits about ZO.The drug rumors are SOLID, from my perspective. If there is anything PT is good for, it is good for clarifying drug rumors/usage.

ALLEGEDLY... Lauren had 2 and a half 'xannie bars' (xanax) when she would normally have taken only half a bar and maybe some wine.

She also had consumed at least a line of cocaine BEFORE she even left Smallwood.

This is all indeed heresay, but from my PT experience, almost everything JW's roommate said on PT is just true. I have a very fine-tuned PT filter, and I really put Aaronwg through it....

sweet_blush
08-08-2012, 02:05 AM
as far as ZO goes...

yep, he is definitelely a major component of the evening.

When the situation first came to PT, I kept suggesting to 'follow the drug trail'.

A student from IU joined PT and told me that ZO was the biggest drug dealer on campus (not weed) and that he had been busted by the DEA.

AB was/is ZO's roommate, and I have a lot more to say about this...

sweet_blush
08-08-2012, 02:11 AM
First, :welcome:

Second, I never once said that I believed JW was guilty. I just cannot agree that he is innocent. He is still a POI, and statistically, the most likely suspect.

I appreciate that you came on over to PT with your convictions, Elmomom.

It had the effect of me fine-tuning my criticism towards JW and his 'alleged' roommate'.

I have much respect for you, Elmomom, you ask the right questions...

:)

sweet_blush
08-08-2012, 02:28 AM
Am I allowed to post specific PT posts on here?

I am still learning the rules and etiquette here.

My time will perhaps be be brief here, so I appreciate you, WS, I feel like I know you all well.

I appreciate if you allow me to come and get right to my points that I want to share here~

cluciano63
08-08-2012, 02:31 AM
Am I allowed to post specific PT posts on here?

I am still learning the rules and etiquette here.

My time will perhaps be be brief here, so I appreciate you, WS, I feel like I know you all well.

I appreciate if you allow me to come and get right to my points that I want to share here~

No I don't think we can link to that site or copy posts from there. We can only link to mainstream media articles, or facebook pages of actual named persons of interest and victims.

bessie
08-08-2012, 02:38 AM
Am I allowed to post specific PT posts on here?

I am still learning the rules and etiquette here.

My time will perhaps be be brief here, so I appreciate you, WS, I feel like I know you all well.

I appreciate if you allow me to come and get right to my points that I want to share here~

You can't copy and paste posts, but we did allow linking to PT for awhile early on. Reference posts with date/time or a post number. If it causes a problem I'll let you know.

ETA: Thanks for asking before you posted.

sweet_blush
08-08-2012, 02:38 AM
What's your theory about what happened?I think somehow drugs are the tie-in between JR and ZO. I always thought that AB and HT knew each other, which was confirmed here, after a WS member saw them together in Indy.

Which means that AB and ZO were most likely at HT and Lauren's place, and I am faily confident in my mind that ZO punched CR out for drug related reasons, OR because he was attracted to Lauren himself.

ZO did NOT punch CR to look out for JW, ZO is a member of Acacia, NOT AEPi...

I also suspect that DB may have been in Bloomington to procure drugs for the Phish show the next night in Detroit....

sweet_blush
08-08-2012, 02:49 AM
You can't copy and paste posts, but we did allow linking to PT for awhile early on. Reference posts with date/time or a post number. If it causes a problem I'll let you know.

Thanks, Bessie.

A lot of the PT threads got modded, but there are some very specific, pertinent posts that are controversial.

Most of the ZO material was modded quickly fwiw...

bessie
08-08-2012, 02:58 AM
So I've heard.

sweet_blush
08-08-2012, 03:06 AM
As far as the DB tweet...

Straight up... I have friends in B'Town who know the owner/s of the Runcible Spoon.

I suggested early on to them to check up on any possible DB credit card receipts.

I hope that happened ;)

Seagull
08-08-2012, 03:18 AM
sweet_blush, do you have a theory on what happened to lauren?

sweet_blush
08-08-2012, 03:35 AM
correction:

Phish played in Detroit on June 3.

One more thing about Ray_Anastasio.

He was a HS friend of MB (CR's roommate), BUT... he is also best friends with all four of JR's roommates from NJ. He is connected with the Jewish camp in the Hudson Valley. Think about this, it is important.

Ray_Anastasio is also the reason several WS members migrated to PT.

Snapfade
08-08-2012, 03:47 AM
The heck with sleep ..sweetblush going to keep me awake all night.
And
I couldnt agree more that ChickJustin is a genius..

sweet_blush
08-08-2012, 03:51 AM
sweet_blush, do you have a theory on what happened to lauren?I can only speculate.

I don't think she was able to leave JR's on her own accord.

I don't trust JR, he allegedly is 'a great liar' and has 'no soul' according to those that know him closest.

Combine the fact that between JR's and DB's parents... well, I won't go there, yet :)


These guys are ALL lying IMO.

Snapfade
08-08-2012, 04:16 AM
I can only speculate.

I don't think she was able to leave JR's on her own accord.

I don't trust JR, he allegedly is 'a great liar' and has 'no soul' according to those that know him closest.

Combine the fact that between JR's and DB's parents... well, I won't go there, yet :)


These guys are ALL lying IMO.
Knowing he is older than most of the poi's , have you heard if JW is involved with this drug circle? Did arron ever say anyting about a bloodhound at his house?

sweet_blush
08-08-2012, 04:57 AM
Igor, I don't know how to PM yet.

http://phantasytour.com/bands/1/topics/2726003/posts

^start on page 9 (very last post of page 8, actually), and please mod and forgive me if this is against TOS...

Igor
08-08-2012, 05:26 AM
thanks -- reading through now.

Ros
08-08-2012, 05:41 AM
I think somehow drugs are the tie-in between JR and ZO. I always thought that AB and HT knew each other, which was confirmed here, after a WS member saw them together in Indy.

Which means that AB and ZO were most likely at HT and Lauren's place, and I am faily confident in my mind that ZO punched CR out for drug related reasons, OR because he was attracted to Lauren himself.

ZO did NOT punch CR to look out for JW, ZO is a member of Acacia, NOT AEPi...

I also suspect that DB may have been in Bloomington to procure drugs for the Phish show the next night in Detroit....

IU's Acacia chapter lost its charter this year.
http://www.idsnews.com/news/story.aspx?id=87533
Drug dealing, drug use, and hazing were given as the reasons. The rumors on campus are that the drug use had gotten so bad that the house was being called "cocacia."
https://www.facebook.com/idsnews/posts/396918727012199

TobyWong*
08-08-2012, 06:04 AM
Igor, I don't know how to PM yet.

http://phantasytour.com/bands/1/topics/2726003/posts

^start on page 9 (very last post of page 8, actually), and please mod and forgive me if this is against TOS...

and WS gets a lil shout out on page 14.

I'm so glad there is some activity and talk of Lauren. I hope her family gets some answers soon.

Ros
08-08-2012, 08:21 AM
correction:

Phish played in Detroit on June 3.

One more thing about Ray_Anastasio.

He was a HS friend of MB (CR's roommate), BUT... he is also best friends with all four of JR's roommates from NJ. He is connected with the Jewish camp in the Hudson Valley. Think about this, it is important.

Ray_Anastasio is also the reason several WS members migrated to PT.
I thought that this group all went to camps in NE Pennsylvania...
http://www.lohud.com/article/20110619/NEWS02/106190365/Lauren-Spierer-search-Closest-friends-school-reflect-missing-college-student

Jupiter812
08-08-2012, 09:54 AM
The media attention or a preliminary test that didnt rule out Lauren may have caught the coroners office off guard a bit. .......The Sr. Deputy Coroner takes the lead with media. The Coroners office begins to follow step by step procedures,to insure a defense attorney doesnt embarrass their office in a high profile trial......just a possibility....

While trying to get to sleep last night, this post and Jacobite's post about the skull gathering dust bothered me more than any other posts of the evening. I wouldn't be surprised.

cluciano63
08-08-2012, 10:08 AM
I hate thinking that if the remains are NOT Lauren...it is back to square one.

Jacobite
08-08-2012, 10:50 AM
While trying to get to sleep last night, this post and Jacobite's post about the skull gathering dust bothered me more than any other posts of the evening. I wouldn't be surprised.

The 1800's have been portrayed in an unfair way in an earlier post. Back then, we had a strong work ethic and went the extra mile in our professions. In 1886, the New York Times reported about a girl who was kidnapped, murdered and thrown in the Wabash River in Indiana. Her remains were found several months later. A dentist was called to examine her skull and gave her family an answer right away. The father then gave the kidnapper a speedy trial after kidnapping him from the jail with a crowd of 200 Hoosiers.

I know someone who was a crime victim in Indiana. The evidence was sent to the State Crime Lab. He was told about a 1.5 year backup. So, in the case of this skull, they actually believe they are expediting the case. The Spierer's would have gotten an answer sooner back in the 1800's We have come a long way with technology and taken several steps backwards with efficiency.

cspring
08-08-2012, 11:55 AM
I've not posted in a while (family issues) but i just went to search Lauren spierer & the first thing to pop up as i was typing was Lauren Spierer found-my whole body got hot. So I've read thru everything here & see that we still don't know! If it makes me this ill i can't even imagine how her parents feel.....i hope we hear something soon.
Glad to see the new posters. The more people like all of u here on this case the better.

elmorejames
08-08-2012, 11:56 AM
http://spotcrime.com/crime/14630916-6fd1add6bb768955e3f87af2985d6334


There is a list of all JR's roommates...

elmorejames
08-08-2012, 12:21 PM
I've followed this case since day 1... Are here is a long list of things I've uncovered. In no random order.

-JR's alleged houseguest DB comes from big time money... They apparently met at Cranbook Kingswood (Yeah the same school that Clarence who's parents had a real good marriage from the movie 8 mile went to)

-DB's family is big into commercial real estate, billions. Apparently, their management company rented an apartment to a Michigan football player that was known for raping girls in their sleep.

-Both JR and DB have younger sisters, and I'd like to think they would never want something like this to happen to LR and JB. JB being a Freshman at Boston U and former keynote speaker at Cranbook Class of 2012 Graduation.

-ChickJustin is part genius part evil. The evil being she is her own worst enemy. An amazing sleuther, (we've had convo's via email about this case). She even managed to have plain clothed state troopers arrive at her door questioning her. She was even smart enough to video tape the entire encounter.

-Carl Salzmann CR's defense attorney was at one time on the other side of the fence. A former prosecutor who most think botched the Jill Behrman case. Many think the man in prison (John Myers) serving time for the murder isn't even the prime suspect. Seems this deparment has a history of botching things.

-If the Kennedy guy can be found guilty of murder 20 odd years later any one with any name or money can be found guilty in a court of law.

That's all I have on the top of my head for now!

Jupiter812
08-08-2012, 12:39 PM
I've followed this case since day 1... Are here is a long list of things I've uncovered. In no random order.

-JR's alleged houseguest DB comes from big time money... They apparently met at Cranbook Kingswood (Yeah the same school that Clarence who's parents had a real good marriage from the movie 8 mile went to)

-DB's family is big into commercial real estate, billions. Apparently, their management company rented an apartment to a Michigan football player that was known for raping girls in their sleep.

-Both JR and DB have younger sisters, and I'd like to think they would never want something like this to happen to LR and JB. JB being a Freshman at Boston U and former keynote speaker at Cranbook Class of 2012 Graduation.

-ChickJustin is part genius part evil. The evil being she is her own worst enemy. An amazing sleuther, (we've had convo's via email about this case). She even managed to have plain clothed state troopers arrive at her door questioning her. She was even smart enough to video tape the entire encounter.

-Carl Salzmann CR's defense attorney was at one time on the other side of the fence. A former prosecutor who most think botched the Jill Behrman case. Many think the man in prison (John Myers) serving time for the murder isn't even the prime suspect. Seems this deparment has a history of botching things.

-If the Kennedy guy can be found guilty of murder 20 odd years later any one with any name or money can be found guilty in a court of law.

That's all I have on the top of my head for now!

I like the last one best but I hope we don't have to wait even 2 years.

Regarding DB's family rental apartments, I think it's a stretch to connect DB by way of that rapist.

CR has a sister too close in age to him, not sure if she's younger. But I've seen a pic of her posted on FB. She should hope a potential employer never sees it.

My favorite YouTube video of this case is that one of ChickJustin. She owned them.

Salzmann (re: your use of "this department) is not part of LE. He was county prosecutor then and is in private practice. Sketchy dude.

Jacobite
08-08-2012, 12:40 PM
I find reason to believe that Lauren may have been taken from Corey Rossman on the way to 5 North or that he handed her over to someone else on the way there. Refreshing his memory
seems to be important to the case.

doubtingthomas
08-08-2012, 12:48 PM
I find reason to believe that Lauren may have been taken from Corey Rossman on the way to 5 North or that he handed her over to someone else on the way there.

I have been following on here from almost the beginning since LS disappeared. The pictures posted by Btown have been a great help. On Aug 1I was in Bloomington. I decided to trace the steps taken that night by LS. I started out at Kilroy’s and walked the path she took to 5 North. Having done that helped put it in more perspective. Having read most of the post here and watching the video from the PI helped me form a major conclusion. Due to the amount of drugs and alcohol LS was suppose to have taken, there is no way she could have walked up the ally to 5 North under her own power. This ally is an up hill climb. I walked this ally and was winded by the time I reached 5 North. Now I know I am older but under her condition I don’t feel she could have done this. Maybe the camera shows someone carrying her up this ally but I have not heard this. I think Jacobite's theory is very possible.

doubtingthomas
08-08-2012, 12:56 PM
Another question I have been wondering about is, when did the POI's contact their lawyers. I would find it very interesting if lawyers were contacted before she was reported missing. I am assuming that once JW reported LS missing word from friends would have gotten back to JR, CR and MB. Does anyone know how long after LS was reported missing did LE contact JR, CR and MB?

jjll
08-08-2012, 01:10 PM
Interesting article about a guy with guns across from Sports. He spoke of Lauren. Eerie

http://www.theindychannel.com/news/31340905/detail.html

bx2
08-08-2012, 01:34 PM
Interesting article about a guy with guns across from Sports. He spoke of Lauren. Eerie

http://www.theindychannel.com/news/31340905/detail.html

This case is certainly not lacking for the amount of crazies it has brought out. People may even be calling this guy a genius next year.

Igor
08-08-2012, 02:48 PM
This case is certainly not lacking for the amount of crazies it has brought out. People may even be calling this guy a genius next year.

In what regard would anyone consider this man a genius?

Jacobite
08-08-2012, 02:48 PM
This case is certainly not lacking for the amount of crazies it has brought out. People may even be calling this guy a genius next year.

It all started with the creepy crazy man who took Lauren Spierer. And, by now, those who love Lauren must feel like they are going crazy after following the case going in circles for more than a year. Now, it's time that we all pull together and solve this case assuming that is everyone's intention. And, I thank you for pointing out the lack of cameras on College Avenue. No one else got that. I was told where the tracking dog lost Lauren's scent by Carl Saltzman and Rob Spierer who got the info from BPD. For me, this might be important.

Jacobite
08-08-2012, 02:57 PM
In what regard would anyone consider this man a genius?

You know, he is only joking about that. AND, also saying armchair detectives here are going crazy or are crazy. In my case, not there yet. Everyone else here is free to disagree of course.

holly2325
08-08-2012, 03:36 PM
It all started with the creepy crazy man who took Lauren Spierer. And, by now, those who love Lauren must feel like they are going crazy after following the case going in circles for more than a year. Now, it's time that we all pull together and solve this case assuming that is everyone's intention. And, I thank you for pointing out the lack of cameras on College Avenue. No one else got that. I was told where the tracking dog lost Lauren's scent by Carl Saltzman and Rob Spierer who got the info from BPD. For me, this might be important.

Where do your sources say the dogs lost LS live scent? Sorry to ask again< I looked back but could not find your original post.

bx2
08-08-2012, 04:04 PM
In what regard would anyone consider this man a genius?

No idea, but it was equally unfathomable to me last year that such a designation would be showered upon a <modsnip> as it has been in the last few pages.

Jupiter812
08-08-2012, 04:44 PM
Yesterday I decided against posting about the gun wielder who is likely mentally ill. We were having a good and important discussion imo and I questioned what was the point in sharing because it would only distract, make more crazy. I see my hesitation was not unfounded.

I don't know ChickJustin personally, and as far as I know I've never talked to her nor exchanged emails with her. But I take offense at your description of her BX2 and at your judgement of those who have positive things to say about her. She may not be the most stable among us, but she participated in this case as a concerned individual and she made contributions, just as many people with mental disorders in our society make contributions. Who are you to judge otherwise?

bx2
08-08-2012, 04:57 PM
I think she wielded outrageous conspiracies with no basis in reality, and was merely providing an opposing view to those that consider her a genius. Providing a counter to what other people have to say isn't judging them.

Snapfade
08-08-2012, 11:07 PM
fair enough..... my use of the word genius was because blush used it....Genius is probably not the right word to describe her....but i dont know her and should not had posted.... I do find her depth of internet knowledge very intriguing.

Murakami
08-08-2012, 11:18 PM
I have a feeling something is gonna break soon. Big. In the next couple of days. Yes, there have been false alarms before in this case about bodies found or the like, but none have taken this long to dismiss...

Snapfade
08-08-2012, 11:48 PM
You know, he is only joking about that. AND, also saying armchair detectives here are going crazy or are crazy. In my case, not there yet. Everyone else here is free to disagree of course.
can you expand upon your theory here... there are several reasons I could believe this.
Got tired and got ride, fight continued, HT told Z O and gang to go seperate them before a drunk LS spent alone time with CR, LS went down and MB assisted in getting to aprtment...

thesaint
08-09-2012, 02:07 AM
1. I seem to recall some mention in earler threads of phone records indicating that phone calls were made between POIs and/or friends/relatives of POIs and a lawyer in Chicago that morning. The lawyer in Chicago being associated with the defrocked fraternity?

2. JR's visitor from Michigan being in town to procure drugs and the DEA having busted someone on the periphery of the group potentially refocuses things a bit.

3. I doubt anyone would travel from Michigan to Southern Indiana to buy personal use quantities for a night out--Detroit and Phish shows are prime places to procure small quantities of whatever you want.

4. If DB (JR's visitor) was in Southern Indiana to purchase major quantity, and the DEA is hanging around on the edges of this group....who knows what the DEA would do to protect a turned out dealer/informant.

5. From the beginning I've thought that the 3 primary POIs (JR, MB and CR) are basically telling the truth--a big reason, I think, they've not been caught up or called out on telling conflicting or untrue stories. I've always thought that it was a simple OD that happened/terminated at JR's and JR bugged out of B-town with no longer living LS in tow and left her in some body of water.

6. Bring in the DEA and potential for a major drug transaction to have been scheduled for that night...who knows? Maybe Lauren OD's to an extent, and JR/MB/CR would've called an ambulance, cept all the drug drama going on around them intervened and either the good guys or bad guys took care of the LS situation so as to not spoil their on going enterprise(s). The DEA's network of informants or the dealer's network of regional wholesalers.


Most likely not, but given the lack of progress and information, who knows. In which case I wouldn't expect anyone to have shown up on the scene, but rather to have directed the boys to meet them with LS somewhere, and they'd take LS and the situation from there.

SeeingForThe1stTime
08-09-2012, 05:23 AM
I was just sitting and thinking and I suddenly had a thought and I'd like to put it out there and get some feedback. I haven't really thought it through myself but I was thinking about how I've had a difficult time, like a lot a people I believe, in letting go of the white truck. I know the subject has been covered and the official word is that it was not related, that the driver of the truck was a business owner and he was out picking up employees to start their early day. I know this has been stated as fact, so I was trying to look a little deeper below the surface and try to understand WHY I've had such a problem letting it go and then I just all of sudden think that maybe that truck didn't circle the block twice, maybe since these contractors white trucks are so common, literally a dime a dozen, that maybe there was another one. A nearly identical one that just made it appear that the same truck passed the security camera twice. I'm sure I'm reaching a little, or a lot, but I've just never been able to accept the OD/panic situation. Not with these boys. All these boys are poster children of entitlement. I have a feeling none of them have ever experienced the real consequences of their bad behaviors and rather than being afraid or in a panic over an o.d.'d girl, on the contrary my instincts tell me these boys wouldn't be all that concerned, not for L.S. and certainly not about being in some sort of trouble that Daddy couldn't get them out of. Of course, I could be wrong and they could each and everyone of them be the epitome of compassion and humility. It's possible, I guess. I just feel like I'm looking at all these loose threads, threads for Z.O. and A.B. and D.B. Threads for "A" white truck even if not "THE" white truck, threads for the White River and construction companies connected to it, threads for Kelly Wold and her roommate walking down 11th and passing by outside of 5 North at 3:45 a.m. and 4:20 a.m. but NOT seeing L.S. or hearing a thing, and more threads for rape and murder, and it's like all these threads are just missing one connecting knot and once it's added, all of these other random threads are just going to pull together into a perfect lace of truth.

British
08-09-2012, 07:47 AM
I was just sitting and thinking and I suddenly had a thought and I'd like to put it out there and get some feedback. I haven't really thought it through myself but I was thinking about how I've had a difficult time, like a lot a people I believe, in letting go of the white truck. I know the subject has been covered and the official word is that it was not related, that the driver of the truck was a business owner and he was out picking up employees to start their early day. I know this has been stated as fact, so I was trying to look a little deeper below the surface and try to understand WHY I've had such a problem letting it go and then I just all of sudden think that maybe that truck didn't circle the block twice, maybe since these contractors white trucks are so common, literally a dime a dozen, that maybe there was another one. A nearly identical one that just made it appear that the same truck passed the security camera twice. I'm sure I'm reaching a little, or a lot, but I've just never been able to accept the OD/panic situation. Not with these boys. All these boys are poster children of entitlement. I have a feeling none of them have ever experienced the real consequences of their bad behaviors and rather than being afraid or in a panic over an o.d.'d girl, on the contrary my instincts tell me these boys wouldn't be all that concerned, not for L.S. and certainly not about being in some sort of trouble that Daddy couldn't get them out of. Of course, I could be wrong and they could each and everyone of them be the epitome of compassion and humility. It's possible, I guess. I just feel like I'm looking at all these loose threads, threads for Z.O. and A.B. and D.B. Threads for "A" white truck even if not "THE" white truck, threads for the White River and construction companies connected to it, threads for Kelly Wold and her roommate walking down 11th and passing by outside of 5 North at 3:45 a.m. and 4:20 a.m. but NOT seeing L.S. or hearing a thing, and more threads for rape and murder, and it's like all these threads are just missing one connecting knot and once it's added, all of these other random threads are just going to pull together into a perfect lace of truth.

Good point, but unlikely. If 2 different white trucks were there, the modern technology would have allowed police to distinguish between the pictures. A more likely scenario is simply that she was transferred out through an area that the cameras did not pick.

I think the statement of the father of LS regarding one of the POIs, "I think he's a liar and a coward," http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/04/25/lauren-spierer-missing_n_1452865.html

summarizes the case and where the suspicions really are (at least by the family). The fact that her personal items were found at the alley also raises the possibility that she passed out there and maybe when (and if) she was taken to the building of the POIs, she was no longer conscious or alive.

British
08-09-2012, 08:02 AM
It all started with the creepy crazy man who took Lauren Spierer. And, by now, those who love Lauren must feel like they are going crazy after following the case going in circles for more than a year. Now, it's time that we all pull together and solve this case assuming that is everyone's intention. And, I thank you for pointing out the lack of cameras on College Avenue. No one else got that. I was told where the tracking dog lost Lauren's scent by Carl Saltzman and Rob Spierer who got the info from BPD. For me, this might be important.


It may or may not. Based on this, one would have to consider seriously the random abduction theory, which is very unlikely based on the facts of the case. I guess an alternative explanation may be that she left at 4.30 AM and one of the POIs followed her up with a car and picked her up at this point. But other possibilities seem more likely.

Jacobite
08-09-2012, 09:13 AM
British, I think we are on the same page. We spent a lot of time studying College Avenue cameras. However, they don't seem so important because I'm told, the dog lost her scent in the location you suggest in the alley area towards Morton Street. I think the dog trail is from Smallwood and this indicates the problem occurred before 5 North which explains the Spierer family having doubts about Corey Rossman.
In another note, a poster on Tony Gatto attempts to provide an alibi for the Indiana POI.
The comment says they went to Indianapolis and spent that whole weekend there.

Ros
08-09-2012, 09:50 AM
British, I think we are on the same page. We spent a lot of time studying College Avenue cameras. However, they don't seem so important because I'm told, the dog lost her scent in the location you suggest in the alley area towards Morton Street. I think the dog trail is from Smallwood and this indicates the problem occurred before 5 North which explains the Spierer family having doubts about Corey Rossman.
In another note, a poster on Tony Gatto attempts to provide an alibi for the Indiana POI.
The comment says they went to Indianapolis and spent that whole weekend there.
I am puzzled.
Which POI allegedly went to Indy? CR, ZO, and AB are all from Indiana. CR and ZO were both seen on video with LS that evening. How could claiming they went to Indianapolis provide an alibi?

Jacobite
08-09-2012, 09:57 AM
The first dog was brought out Saturday, 4 June, 2011 in the afternoon. The next dog comes into play after Jesse goes back to New York. This dog was taken to 9th Street and also to 5 North. I believe the purpose of the 2nd dog was to determine if Lauren had died at either building. Had the dog found such a discovery, we would have a suspect not just POI. Therefore, I don't believe she died at either location.

Jacobite
08-09-2012, 10:04 AM
I am puzzled.
Which POI allegedly went to Indy? CR, ZO, and AB are all from Indiana. CR and ZO were both seen on video with LS that evening. How could claiming they went to Indianapolis provide an alibi?

Corey Rossman is from Massachusetts. ZO and AB are from Indiana. The posters point was that Indiana POI went to Indianapolis. However, we know they had been in Bloomington around 3 AM, 3 June.

I also think BO tracked down Tony Gatto's mystery woman witness and Corey becomes the Mystery Man, not AB.

Ros
08-09-2012, 10:13 AM
Corey Rossman is from Massachusetts. ZO and AB are from Indiana. The posters point was that they went to Indianapolis. However, we know they had been in Bloomington around 3 AM, 3 June.

I also think BO tracked down Tony Gatto's mystery woman witness and Corey becomes the Mystery Man, not AB.

The bar manager specifically said that "she does not believe Rossman is the man who she saw with Spierer that night."

You are right. CR is from MA.

Jacobite
08-09-2012, 10:33 AM
The bar manager specifically said that "she does not believe Rossman is the man who she saw with Spierer that night.aaa'

Let's suppose you are right and Tony's witness is a different person than BO's witness. This fits better in a way. The accounts are not consistent anyway.
AB grabs her at 3:38 AM after she falls again at 10th and College.

But? But? But? The dog should have found this trail.

sweet_blush
08-09-2012, 11:26 AM
fair enough..... my use of the word genius was because blush used it....Genius is probably not the right word to describe her....but i dont know her and should not had posted.... I do find her depth of internet knowledge very intriguing.
I'm not saying CJ doesn't have certain (documented) mental health issues.

I am saying that I know the incredible about of cross-referencing (triangulating) and inexhaustable research she did on several social media sites, to track down the DB tweet alone is quite impressive.

Her credibility as far as a LE cover-up is completely in question, but her research abilities are truly genius, IMO.

Jacobite
08-09-2012, 11:55 AM
Everyone and anyone who wants to make a guess or theory on this case publicly risks playing the hero or playing the clown. That's how it is for everyone. Anyway, I think a video stating that the BPD came from the Waffle House with lights out and got Lauren was out there.
That being said, I will not side with those who would try to bully or hurt someone trying to solve the case.
The main thing though is to keep the focus on Lauren. We aren't in this for personal glory. Many of us know someone who loved Lauren. I really don't want my story told along with Lauren's. Head down! This is Lauren's story.

monkey222
08-09-2012, 12:33 PM
The salient image of LS stumbling on street with NO purse, NO shoes, NO phone, dangling hands, long blonde hair had to be dishelved from over the shoulder slinging, and bloodied brusied face from face breaking falls would be an image anyone driving or otherwise viewing her on the street would not forget. Most would stop to help. Did she really leave 5 North on foot....

Jacobite
08-09-2012, 12:41 PM
The salient image of LS stumbling on street with NO purse, NO shoes, NO phone, dangling hands, long blonde hair had to be dishelved from over the shoulder slinging, and bloodied brusied face from face breaking falls would be an image anyone driving or otherwise viewing her on the street would not forget. Most would stop to help. Did she really leave 5 North on foot....

Did she really make it back to 5 North at all?

British
08-09-2012, 01:48 PM
British, I think we are on the same page. We spent a lot of time studying College Avenue cameras. However, they don't seem so important because I'm told, the dog lost her scent in the location you suggest in the alley area towards Morton Street. I think the dog trail is from Smallwood and this indicates the problem occurred before 5 North which explains the Spierer family having doubts about Corey Rossman.
In another note, a poster on Tony Gatto attempts to provide an alibi for the Indiana POI.
The comment says they went to Indianapolis and spent that whole weekend there.


All along I thought that JR and MB might have simply decided to cover up for someone else (another POI), taking the word of that POI as true. So, in their minds they might have thought they were doing the right thing to protect a friend who did "nothing wrong".

In my opinion there 2 keys pieces of the story among the many:

1. The fact that her personal items were found in the alley. This suggests that something serious happened there. The police have never disclosed what the "activity" recorded in the cameras was. I would not be surprised at all if LS died there and then. Or that an assault against her started there and was completed somewhere else.

2. The fact that one POI claimed "memory loss". Although theoretically possible, that strongly suggests some sort of wrongdoing. Taken together with the fact that this POI never agreed to talk to police (that is my understanding from what I read), this creates huge questions and doubts.

sweet_blush
08-09-2012, 02:16 PM
Are any of the Bloomington residents here familiar with the 'House Bar'?

I read in one of the LS threads that previously undiscussed theories are welcome here.

House Bar is now closed down, as of just recently, but it is less than a five minute walk from JR's. If Lauren were to walk the opposite way across College Street (opposite the direction back to SW) she could enter an alley that leads to a fenced patio gate which accesses the House Bar yard.

The House Bar, I was told, had a history of after-hour get togethers, and in fact, there was an electronica show there on June, 2...

bx2
08-09-2012, 02:58 PM
Are any of the Bloomington residents here familiar with the 'House Bar'?

I read in one of the LS threads that previously undiscussed theories are welcome here.

House Bar is now closed down, as of just recently, but it is less than a five minute walk from JR's. If Lauren were to walk the opposite way across College Street (opposite the direction back to SW) she could enter an alley that leads to a fenced patio gate which accesses the House Bar yard.

The House Bar, I was told, had a history of after-hour get togethers, and in fact, there was an electronica show there on June, 2...

I just know it as a hipster/dive type place, didn't know about the after hours stuff. There's nothing impossible about the scenario, but a tiny blonde girl lacking shoes would seem to stick out a bit. You'd think someone would recall seeing her.

Ros
08-09-2012, 03:11 PM
Did she really make it back to 5 North at all?

I wonder how closely the stories of JR and MB fit. CR (allegedly) does not have a story to tell. I also wonder if LE has ever followed up on DB to find out if he was 1) in town that early on June 3 and if 2) his story fits with those of JR and MB and if LE ever searched DB's car.

CR's car was searched, so apparently LE did not find significant evidence in his Jeep, or else they did not find enough to make an arrest.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2011-06-09-missing-indiana-student_n.htm

sweet_blush
08-09-2012, 03:20 PM
I just know it as a hipster/dive type place, didn't know about the after hours stuff. There's nothing impossible about the scenario, but a tiny blonde girl lacking shoes would seem to stick out a bit. You'd think someone would recall seeing her.The thing is, NOBODY recalls seeing her, not at that crucial moment, anyways.

I got to talking with a lot of really caring people during the whole PT saga, some of you from here on Sleuths.

Anyway, I'm not entirely sure how WS policy is concerning the posting of rumors, BUT...

I was told that JW sometimes would hang out at HB, and there is a possibility that LS went looking for him there after she left JR's.

British
08-09-2012, 03:34 PM
The thing is, NOBODY recalls seeing her, not at that crucial moment, anyways.

I got to talking with a lot of really caring people during the whole PT saga, some of you from here on Sleuths.

Anyway, I'm not entirely sure how WS policy is concerning the posting of rumors, BUT...

I was told that JW sometimes would hang out at HB, and there is a possibility that LS went looking for him there after she left JR's.

What is HB?

British
08-09-2012, 03:36 PM
What is HB?

Ok, I found it above. I dont believe this rumor. And it does not seem to fit the story of JR and MB anyways.

sweet_blush
08-09-2012, 03:39 PM
eh.

British, I wouldn't be here now if ANY story fit with JR or MB.

I think they are BOTH lying, for the record.

elmomom
08-09-2012, 03:45 PM
Is HB in the area known as the Hill or somesuch (this is all so far back in my head, it is hard to recall the things I once knew about this case)

British
08-09-2012, 03:48 PM
eh.

British, I wouldn't be here now if ANY story fit with JR or MB.

I think they are BOTH lying, for the record.


True.

Anyway, I think this story is much simpler and straight forward than we think. It sounds very complicated and unclear because we simply dont have all the facts. But for the police it may be much simpler, except that they may not have enough evidence to make an arrest. Maybe the inexplicable delay in releasing a (potential) match of the skull is that they are searching areas along the direction of the river for other evidence, such clothes and/or other bones. Anything that could link forensically a killer to a victim. JMO.

elmorejames
08-09-2012, 04:02 PM
Is HB in the area known as the Hill or somesuch (this is all so far back in my head, it is hard to recall the things I once knew about this case)

Is this where near Tallboy heard the scream? Allegedly heard the scream? He's no longer alive to confirm or deny this scream!

Jupiter812
08-09-2012, 05:29 PM
I'm not holding my breath any more. I called the Marion County coroner's office to ask about their timeline for reporting results. The receptionist said the ONLY person who can speak about this case is Chief Deputy Ballew and Ballew is out of the office until Aug 21. "Even to the media?" I asked. She said yes.

"Until Aug 21" sounds like a vacation, not a professional conference, so all bets are off as to whether we'll even hear results of the preliminary testing "this week."

sweet_blush
08-09-2012, 05:33 PM
Is this where near Tallboy heard the scream? Allegedly heard the scream? He's no longer alive to confirm or deny this scream!

House Bar LLC
813 North Walnut Street, Bloomington, IN
(812) 339-5646 ()

http://maps.google.com/

sweet_blush
08-09-2012, 05:45 PM
I'm not holding my breath any more. I called the Marion County coroner's office to ask about their timeline for reporting results. The receptionist said the ONLY person who can speak about this case is Chief Deputy Ballew and Ballew is out of the office until Aug 21. "Even to the media?" I asked. She said yes.

"Until Aug 21" sounds like a vacation, not a professional conference, so all bets are off as to whether we'll even hear results of the preliminary testing "this week."

No, I don't believe that at all, that is a LE rouse if I've ever heard one.

No way are the authorities going to tell the Spierer family that test results are going to be returned by the week's end, and then say that the only person who can speak on this is on vacation.

No way!!

(good job on the phone call ;)

jjenny
08-09-2012, 05:48 PM
So its the end of the week and they still haven't said anything? On a skull with intact teeth should have taken a day or two to compare dental records and rule her in or out.
Are they not telling parents anything either?
It's mind boggling to me.

British
08-09-2012, 06:22 PM
No, I don't believe that at all, that is a LE rouse if I've ever heard one.

No way are the authorities going to tell the Spierer family that test results are going to be returned by the week's end, and then say that the only person who can speak on this is on vacation.

No way!!

(good job on the phone call ;)


They did not say the results will be returned this week. All they said was that the coroner will evaluate the pathology report this week and DNA test to follow.

https://twitter.com/@NewsOnLaurenS


It sounds that it will take some time until DNA results are known.

My guess is that the dental records were a match and that the news release process may be delayed, to allow for additional searches and investigations. No other way to explain this delay.

Jacobite
08-09-2012, 06:36 PM
I wonder how closely the stories of JR and MB fit. CR (allegedly) does not have a story to tell. I also wonder if LE has ever followed up on DB to find out if he was 1) in town that early on June 3 and if 2) his story fits with those of JR and MB and if LE ever searched DB's car.

CR's car was searched, so apparently LE did not find significant evidence in his Jeep, or else they did not find enough to make an arrest.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2011-06-09-missing-indiana-student_n.htm

The only thing they have to agree about is the arrival time at JR's. Agree on the time and they are done.

cluciano63
08-09-2012, 06:36 PM
They did not say the results will be returned this week. All they said was that the coroner will evaluate the pathology report this week and DNA test to follow.

https://twitter.com/@NewsOnLaurenS


It sounds that it will take some time until DNA results are known.

My guess is that the dental records were a match and that the news release process may be delayed, to allow for additional searches and investigations. No other way to explain this delay.

The family would be told. The identity of a victim would not be withheld for that reason, IMO.

Jacobite
08-09-2012, 06:45 PM
All along I thought that JR and MB might have simply decided to cover up for someone else (another POI), taking the word of that POI as true. So, in their minds they might have thought they were doing the right thing to protect a friend who did "nothing wrong".

In my opinion there 2 keys pieces of the story among the many:

1. The fact that her personal items were found in the alley. This suggests that something serious happened there. The police have never disclosed what the "activity" recorded in the cameras was. I would not be surprised at all if LS died there and then. Or that an assault against her started there and was completed somewhere else.

2. The fact that one POI claimed "memory loss". Although theoretically possible, that strongly suggests some sort of wrongdoing. Taken together with the fact that this POI never agreed to talk to police (that is my understanding from what I read), this creates huge questions and doubts.

I should have read about tracking dogs much sooner. Then, I would have understood her parents position and opinion earlier. It may be a dog that solves this case. Water dogs can find you underwater more than a year later.
Robotic cameras and divers follow after them.

sweet_blush
08-09-2012, 06:49 PM
They did not say the results will be returned this week. All they said was that the coroner will evaluate the pathology report this week and DNA test to follow.


http://www.lohud.com/article/BH/20120807/NEWS/308070037/Lauren-Spierer-disappearance-Family-awaits-coroner-report?odyssey=nav%7Chead

Jacobite
08-09-2012, 06:51 PM
Is this where near Tallboy heard the scream? Allegedly heard the scream? He's no longer alive to confirm or deny this scream!

Who is Tallboy? Or, do you only know him by his handle? Where was he when he heard a scream? Does the hill mean Pigeon Hill which is about a mile west of Rosenbaum's.

sweet_blush
08-09-2012, 06:56 PM
Who is Tallboy? Or, do you only know him by his handle?

http://www.heraldtimesonline.com/stories/comments/cmt.php?cmtus=chickjustin

sweet_blush
08-09-2012, 07:36 PM
http://www.lohud.com/article/BH/20120807/NEWS/308070037/Lauren-Spierer-disappearance-Family-awaits-coroner-report?odyssey=nav%7Chead

"Lauren Spierer’s parents’ quest for answers may end this week as new tests shed light on the gender, ethnicity and age of a skull found last month in Indianapolis, the Marion County, Ind., Coroner’s Office told The Journal News.

The information should be included in a pathologist’s report that the Coroner’s Office is expected to receive this week, Senior Deputy Coroner Michelle Willis said.
“Hopefully we can at least know some preliminary findings, like race and gender,” she said."

akh
08-09-2012, 08:28 PM
I'm starting to suspect they were so sure it WASN'T her that they did NO testing at all until someone lit a fire under their ---es. Hopefully, I'm wrong about that.

Jacobite
08-09-2012, 08:41 PM
I'm starting to suspect they were so sure it WASN'T her that they did NO testing at all until someone lit a fire under their ---es. Hopefully, I'm wrong about that.

Most people never expected her to be taken to Indianapolis. I hope her family gets an answer very soon.

holly2325
08-09-2012, 08:47 PM
I'm starting to suspect they were so sure it WASN'T her that they did NO testing at all until someone lit a fire under their ---es. Hopefully, I'm wrong about that.

I think one of these must be true

1. The Spierers have been told it is likely not or definitely not LS but no one is telling the news media.

2. There must not be anything about the size, sex or tooth order that rules out LS.

British
08-09-2012, 09:04 PM
I think one of these must be true

2. There must not be anything about the size, sex or tooth order that rules out LS.



Very wrong. Dental records are easily accessible. I am sure LS had a dentist and they have x-rays on record. If the teeth on the skull are intact (as the articles mentioned), all it would take would be to x-ray the teeth and compare them to a copy of the LS's x-rays that can be send overnight from NY. The whole thing can be done in 2-3 days.

If there is a match in the dental records, it would be almost certainly LS. But to be 100% unequivocally sure, one would need DNA (done using PCR with material taken from the tooth). And it has been mentioned in the press that DNA analysis will be done. There would be no reason to do a DNA test, unless there are strong indications that the dental records match. Just my opinion and guess.

Jacobite
08-09-2012, 09:05 PM
I think one of these must be true

1. The Spierers have been told it is likely not or definitely not LS but no one is telling the news media.

2. There must not be anything about the size, sex or tooth order that rules out LS.

1. They would not feature the story on the family Facebook if they knew it was false.

2. True, and hopefully they get more answers soon.

Jacobite
08-09-2012, 09:45 PM
Very wrong. Dental records are easily accessible. I am sure LS had a dentist and they have x-rays on record. If the teeth on the skull are intact (as the articles mentioned), all it would take would be to x-ray the teeth and compare them to a copy of the LS's x-rays that can be send overnight from NY. The whole thing can be done in 2-3 days.

If there is a match in the dental records, it would be almost certainly LS. But to be 100% unequivocally sure, one would need DNA (done using PCR with material taken from the tooth). And it has been mentioned in the press that DNA analysis will be done. There would be no reason to do a DNA test, unless there are strong indications that the dental records match. Just my opinion and guess.

I think taking so long to get the testing done is a very cruel torture to Lauren's family and friends. The government should be ashamed of themselves for this.

Ros
08-09-2012, 11:01 PM
And it is interesting that the media is not mentioning any of the other persons who have disappeared in the central Indiana area during the past several years. Delays in identifying remains must be difficult for their families too.

friendsara
08-09-2012, 11:10 PM
The thing is, NOBODY recalls seeing her, not at that crucial moment, anyways.

I got to talking with a lot of really caring people during the whole PT saga, some of you from here on Sleuths.

Anyway, I'm not entirely sure how WS policy is concerning the posting of rumors, BUT...

I was told that JW sometimes would hang out at HB, and there is a possibility that LS went looking for him there after she left JR's.

I am familiar with HB - went there several times in undergrad and had friends who were friends with the owners. Either one of the two owners was always bartending when I was there. It's a small place and I think they would have absolutely remembered if LS was there that night. There were also definitely a crowd of regulars...I just can't imagine she would have gone unnoticed. But I respect putting this out there as a theory so much. WS has (very earnestly) gone over the same facts and theories again and again.

friendsara
08-09-2012, 11:31 PM
And it is interesting that the media is not mentioning any of the other persons who have disappeared in the central Indiana area during the past several years. Delays in identifying remains must be difficult for their families too.

In my (somewhat limited) experience with remains found in the Midwest, identification happens pretty quickly. I really doubt a bureaucratic issue is the cause for the delay here but I am definitely open to being totally wrong about that. I have called about every single body found in the area that we had speculated here might be LS for fear it might be my missing friend, and I have always found out really quickly that it's not. And the people I spoke with - coroners or detectives assigned to the case, etc - were totally open to giving me info about the body even as a random friend of a missing person. Jupiter, the fact that no one would talk to you about the details when you called makes me wonder if they're being quiet for a reason.

This is MAJOR guessing based on zero evidence, but what if August 21 is, for instance, after the private memorial service and burial of the remains which have already been positively identified but the ne not released to the public?

Snapfade
08-09-2012, 11:37 PM
If the skull turns out to be lauren.....IF...my theory has DB had opportinity and the location of the skull very close to the route he would have driven on his way back home to Michigan.

Snapfade
08-09-2012, 11:40 PM
Wow.... Good thinking sara.

Mophebius
08-09-2012, 11:45 PM
http://*****************/viewArticle.action?articleId=281474981532183

It may be nothing at all, but I saw this article and figured it may be worth posting.

Blythe
08-09-2012, 11:59 PM
80,640 hours - perhaps they are having the PsOI wait, keeping them off balance, seeing who will crack or make a deal....

bx2
08-10-2012, 12:30 AM
For comparison sake, it took about 3.5 weeks for LS to be eliminated (publicly at least) as a possibility for the remains found in Newton, IL last March. I still don't think they've found an identity there, but were able to determine the sex was male.

Sidenote-
Another skull discovery was made last week in Springville (20 miles south of Bloomington). No real reason to suspect it ties in to this case, but figured it can't hurt to throw it out there as something else to keep an eye on.

http://www.wbiw.com/local/archives/2012/08/two_partcial_skulls_found_in_b.php

cluciano63
08-10-2012, 01:40 AM
LE would not keep an identity secret in order to taunt perps, or to do more searches. That just does not make any sense.

Blythe
08-10-2012, 07:27 AM
LE would not keep an identity secret in order to taunt perps, or to do more searches. That just does not make any sense.

From the media? From the public? From websleuths? From Cluciano? Who said anything about the identity being kept from people who matter?

CS seemed to emphasize in hours, even, how agonizing that is, as if the perps would identify. I think this is more likely than waiting for a memorial service. Seems to me memorials usually require people to know about the find.

British
08-10-2012, 08:23 AM
I was reading an old timeline of events http://legalpublication.blogspot.com/2011/06/lauren-spierer-disappearance-puzzles.html

and I ve seen something that is remarkable when someone thinks about it in light of what came out later. From that link:

Around 3:10, the couple should have arrived at Cory Rossman's apartment. Rossman's roommate, Mike Beth, claims he put Rossman to bed. Beth says he was sober and up late working on a paper. Spierer allegedly wanted to keep on partying so she apparently left Rossman's apartment to visit Jay Rosenbaum. Rosenbaum lived two doors down.

So, based on this, LS who was in worse condition than CR when they left Smallwood (based on later reports and video) and who had lost her keys in the alley a little earlier, could continue partying, while CR was put to bed by his roomate. Hello? Something does not make sense here?

Ros
08-10-2012, 08:44 AM
http://*****************/viewArticle.action?articleId=281474981532183

It may be nothing at all, but I saw this article and figured it may be worth posting.

The link does not work.

Ros
08-10-2012, 09:12 AM
I was reading an old timeline of events http://legalpublication.blogspot.com/2011/06/lauren-spierer-disappearance-puzzles.html

and I ve seen something that is remarkable when someone thinks about it in light of what came out later. From that link:

Around 3:10, the couple should have arrived at Cory Rossman's apartment. Rossman's roommate, Mike Beth, claims he put Rossman to bed. Beth says he was sober and up late working on a paper. Spierer allegedly wanted to keep on partying so she apparently left Rossman's apartment to visit Jay Rosenbaum. Rosenbaum lived two doors down.

So, based on this, LS who was in worse condition than CR when they left Smallwood (based on later reports and video) and who had lost her keys in the alley a little earlier, could continue partying, while CR was put to bed by his roommate. Hello? Something does not make sense here?

Perhaps that's why Bo said “A lot of those stories don’t line up, and there’s a lot of conflicting statements.”

http://www.lohud.com/article/20120603/NEWS02/306030045/Lauren-Spierer-mystery-New-accounts-say-she-staggered-away-after-night-heavy-drinking-drug-use

I wonder if the PsOI were given immunity from drug charges. It seems that several of them have admitted using that night. I also wonder if the possibility of drug charges was the reason so many of them hired lawyers.

jjenny
08-10-2012, 09:21 AM
Perhaps that's why Bo said “A lot of those stories don’t line up, and there’s a lot of conflicting statements.”

http://www.lohud.com/article/20120603/NEWS02/306030045/Lauren-Spierer-mystery-New-accounts-say-she-staggered-away-after-night-heavy-drinking-drug-use

I wonder if the PsOI were given immunity from drug charges. It seems that several of them have admitted using that night. I also wonder if the possibility of drug charges was the reason so many of them hired lawyers.
They pretty much have to be caught using drugs to be charged.

Blythe
08-10-2012, 09:41 AM
If this is Lauren, what do you think LE does next? What will we hear next that we hadn't known prior?

And if it is not Lauren, then what? The 80,640 hours is extended...?

doubtingthomas
08-10-2012, 09:43 AM
Here are a couple things I found interesting from the article: http://www.lohud.com/article/20120603/NEWS02/306030045/Lauren-Spierer-mystery-New-accounts-say-she-staggered-away-after-night-heavy-drinking-drug-use


On the night she vanished, Lauren Spierer’s eye was starting to blacken, she had smacked her skull, lost her keys, her shoes, her cellphone and her ID, and had to be carried up the street on the back of a guy she had met just a week earlier who told friends he had designs on her.

He refused, and Rosenbaum said he let her walk out, barefoot, alone and incoherent.

-The part I made bold has CR carrying her up the street(I assume the ally) to 5 North yet a short time later JR says she walks out.
-The article also states LS's eye is starting to blacken. Yet another report stated CR was seen the next day without any indication of a black eye. So, in a short period of time LS gets a black eye, yet CR gets punched and the next day and no black eye.

Jupiter812
08-10-2012, 09:49 AM
Interesting first sentence in the article Ros linked to above: "On the night she vanished, Lauren Spierer’s eye was starting to blacken, she had smacked her skull..."

I presume the writer doesn't know to what extent she "smacked her skull" but I wonder if it was impact enough to leave an observable dent. Quite possibly, but would it be considered an "injury" to the experts?

The other thing about the skull is supposedly one can often tell right away by the sutures whether the age of the victim is under or over age 30.

Jupiter812
08-10-2012, 09:58 AM
I'm not holding my breath any more. I called the Marion County coroner's office to ask about their timeline for reporting results. The receptionist said the ONLY person who can speak about this case is Chief Deputy Ballew and Ballew is out of the office until Aug 21. "Even to the media?" I asked. She said yes.

"Until Aug 21" sounds like a vacation, not a professional conference, so all bets are off as to whether we'll even hear results of the preliminary testing "this week."

FWIW to clarify what the receptionist said the other day, and because she sounded so adamant, I asked if the senior deputy could speak on behalf of Ballew since she would be out and she said no, ONLY (again) Ballew. Willis is one of her deputies and is the one who was quoted in the most recent Lohud article, which referred to her as "senior deputy." Independent of the more important issues we've all been talking about about results of the skull, it may be that Willis spoke out of turn and there was an internal smackdown.

concernedmother
08-10-2012, 10:36 AM
http://tristatehomepage.com/fulltext?nxd_id=535362&utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=facebook

Man Questioned in Missing IU Student Case

Jacobite
08-10-2012, 11:20 AM
If this is Lauren, what do you think LE does next? What will we hear next that we hadn't known prior?

And if it is not Lauren, then what? The 80,640 hours is extended...?

It depends on what crime they believe and can try to prove was committed.
Do they believe it was murder? Was it rape? Was she alive when taken away?
If she was alive? That is abduction.

On the other hand, you have a friend over and she dies from a drug OD.
You put her in your car, take her to Indianapolis and dump her in the White River. This is not a Federal Crime. But, there is a State Crime called Abuse Of a Corpse. It is a minor felony if you can prove someone had sex with a dead body or mutilated the corpse. But, if you have dumped an intact body, I'm not sure you will face a criminal penalty in Indiana. At least, not much of one.

But now I must argue that drug OD does not make sense. So, now let's play you are a drug dealer. You must hide the girl because you don't want them to determine there are drugs in the body that you gave her. So, you hide her, yet leave a bag full of white powder in her room. This just does not make sense because you could have access to that room to clean up because all POI are friends of the roommate. One would not hide Lauren because of a drug OD, yet leave the drugs they supplied in her possession.

I'd bet the bag was planted because friends of Lauren insist she was not into hard drugs just a few weeks before she disappeared. And, one does not start with coke by buying by the bag full.

This story contains a great lie which we must disprove to get justice for Lauren. Someone must believe a crime was committed.

Ros
08-10-2012, 11:32 AM
It depends on what crime they believe and can try to prove was committed.
Do they believe it was murder? Was it rape? Was she alive when taken away?
If she was alive? That is abduction.

On the other hand, you have a friend over and she dies from a drug OD.
You put her in your car, take her to Indianapolis and dump her in the White River. This is not a Federal Crime. But, there is a State Crime called Abuse Of a Corpse. It is a minor felony if you can prove someone had sex with a dead body or mutilated the corpse. But, if you have dumped an intact body, I'm not sure you will face a criminal penalty in Indiana. At least, not much of one.

But now I must argue that drug OD does not make sense. So, now let's play you are a drug dealer. You must hide the girl because you don't want them to determine there are drugs in the body that you gave her. So, you hide her, yet leave a bag full of white powder in her room. This just does not make sense because you could have access to that room to clean up because all POI are friends of the roommate. One would not hide Lauren because of a drug OD, yet leave the drugs they supplied in her possession.

I'd bet the bag was planted because friends of Lauren insist she was not into hard drugs just a few weeks before she disappeared. And, one does not start with coke by buying by the bag full.

This story contains a great lie which we must disprove to get justice for Lauren. Someone must believe a crime was committed.

According to Indiana law, if someone dies of a drug overdose, if certain drugs were involved (including cocaine), the person(s) who provided those drugs could be charged with murder.

Jacobite
08-10-2012, 11:38 AM
According to Indiana law, if someone dies of a drug overdose, if certain drugs were involved (including cocaine), the person(s) who provided those drugs could be charged with murder.

OK, but if we hide the girl, we also do cleanup in the apartment. I was born at night. But, not last night.

Under Indiana Law, an intoxicated person cannot consent to anything legally. So, if they persuaded her to try drugs after drinking, we may have murder.

elmomom
08-10-2012, 11:44 AM
OK, but if we hide the girl, we also do cleanup in the apartment. I was born at night. But, not last night.

If you hide the evidence (dead body) long enough that cause of death cannot be determined, then there is no proof that she died of an OD on the drugs that were found in her room. So, no need to clean up her room.

Moreover, no way to link drugs found in her room with any particular person. Not like they sat there with a credit card receipt. Again, no need to clean up her room.

sweet_blush
08-10-2012, 11:46 AM
I am familiar with HB - went there several times in undergrad and had friends who were friends with the owners. Either one of the two owners was always bartending when I was there. It's a small place and I think they would have absolutely remembered if LS was there that night. There were also definitely a crowd of regulars...I just can't imagine she would have gone unnoticed. But I respect putting this out there as a theory so much. WS has (very earnestly) gone over the same facts and theories again and again.Yeah, again just running a theory across.

If you google the House Bar, there is an alleyway that leads to the backyard of House Bar, where I have heard students would sometimes cut through to avoid LE (or such). If LS went to the corner of College and 11th, as JR said he watched her do... she could have gone the OPPOSITE way across
College and been in that alleyway, about a twenty or so yard walk.

sweet_blush
08-10-2012, 11:49 AM
I was told that House Bar would occassionally have after hour get togethers, and the informal atmosphere of the bar was appealing to certain regulars.

The House Bar is closed down now, and whether LS and her crowd ever frequented the place, I still don't know.

But one theory is that perhaps LS wandered in that direction, and encountered someone before ever being seen by the bartenders, or anyone who may remember?

http://www.idsnews.com/news/story.aspx?id=73431

Blythe
08-10-2012, 11:59 AM
It depends on what crime they believe and can try to prove was committed.
Do they believe it was murder? Was it rape? Was she alive when taken away?
If she was alive? That is abduction.

On the other hand, you have a friend over and she dies from a drug OD.
You put her in your car, take her to Indianapolis and dump her in the White River. This is not a Federal Crime. But, there is a State Crime called Abuse Of a Corpse. It is a minor felony if you can prove someone had sex with a dead body or mutilated the corpse. But, if you have dumped an intact body, I'm not sure you will face a criminal penalty in Indiana. At least, not much of one.

But now I must argue that drug OD does not make sense. So, now let's play you are a drug dealer. You must hide the girl because you don't want them to determine there are drugs in the body that you gave her. So, you hide her, yet leave a bag full of white powder in her room. This just does not make sense because you could have access to that room to clean up because all POI are friends of the roommate. One would not hide Lauren because of a drug OD, yet leave the drugs they supplied in her possession.

I'd bet the bag was planted because friends of Lauren insist she was not into hard drugs just a few weeks before she disappeared. And, one does not start with coke by buying by the bag full.

This story contains a great lie which we must disprove to get justice for Lauren. Someone must believe a crime was committed.

What evidence do they have, indeed? And I agree with your last line. The next step is unraveling the 'big lie". Now, what do you think the biggest lie is?

British
08-10-2012, 12:13 PM
Yeah, again just running a theory across.

If you google the House Bar, there is an alleyway that leads to the backyard of House Bar, where I have heard students would sometimes cut through to avoid LE (or such). If LS went to the corner of College and 11th, as JR said he watched her do... she could have gone the OPPOSITE way across
College and been in that alleyway, about a twenty or so yard walk.

The way she was, there is no way on earth she could walk alone at 4.30 AM without keys to go to her apartment. This theory makes no sense, because it never made sense that she left at 4.30 AM alone. That account is essentially impossible.

British
08-10-2012, 12:14 PM
I'd bet the bag was planted because friends of Lauren insist she was not into hard drugs just a few weeks before she disappeared. And, one does not start with coke by buying by the bag full.

This story contains a great lie which we must disprove to get justice for Lauren. Someone must believe a crime was committed.


What bag are you referring to? I never heard about a bag before. That's interesting.

Jacobite
08-10-2012, 12:23 PM
What evidence do they have, indeed? And I agree with your last line. The next step is unraveling the 'big lie". Now, what do you think the biggest lie is?

More people who knew Lauren need to defend her. And, coke fits in more with the gangsta thug subculture than what she was into.

Blythe
08-10-2012, 12:26 PM
I was told that House Bar would occassionally have after hour get togethers, and the informal atmosphere of the bar was appealing to certain regulars.

The House Bar is closed down now, and whether LS and her crowd ever frequented the place, I still don't know.

But one theory is that perhaps LS wandered in that direction, and encountered someone before ever being seen by the bartenders, or anyone who may remember?

http://www.idsnews.com/news/story.aspx?id=73431

So LS was headed over for a chess match, perhaps? Sounds like a hip place and not what they claim she was seeking.

Blythe
08-10-2012, 12:30 PM
More people who knew Lauren need to defend her. And, coke fits in more with the gangsta thug subculture than what she was into.

It is the misogynistic culture. IMHO The Spierers' did an excellent job of presenting her multi dimensional personality and character. It is a shame that her associates have neither responded to that nor do they seem to care.

sweet_blush
08-10-2012, 12:32 PM
The way she was, there is no way on earth she could walk alone at 4.30 AM without keys to go to her apartment. This theory makes no sense, because it never made sense that she left at 4.30 AM alone. That account is essentially impossible.
You are quick to dismiss new theories. Why would it be impossible for her to walk the opposite way across College? What "state" was she in?

Some people confuse 'blacked-out' with 'passed out', she may very have well walked out of JR's like he says.

Or are you just entirely convinced Lauren never left JR's, period?

sweet_blush
08-10-2012, 12:35 PM
So LS was headed over for a chess match, perhaps? Sounds like a hip place and not what they claim she was seeking.

I will cease with the rumors.

Once again, I was told that JW may have had a history of ending up there late night and that Lauren may have gone that way looking for him.

Just a theory, that's all :)

akh
08-10-2012, 12:48 PM
I'm not following the planted evidence line of thinking. Who, realistically besides the boyfriend, would have had the opportunity to plant the drugs? And to what end?

Maybe if someone was desperate to throw the police off track someone might do that I guess... But that would mean drugs weren't directly involved with what happened but you want the police to think she was mixed up in drugs and her disappearance was somehow drug related.

But if her disappearance WAS drug related in any way who'd want to risk planting evidence that might even be traceable? ...Let alone now connect you to the disappearance?

Ros
08-10-2012, 12:59 PM
What bag are you referring to? I never heard about a bag before. That's interesting.

The bag of coke was mentioned in this article:
http://www.lohud.com/article/20120603/NEWS02/306030045/Lauren-Spierer-mystery-New-accounts-say-she-staggered-away-after-night-heavy-drinking-drug-use?nclick_check=1

From my admittedly limited observation of drug users,

1. People from all social classes use many different types of drugs, including cocaine.
2. Persons who are addicted to cocaine (and cocaine is VERY addicting) find it almost impossible to have cocaine available and not use it all up.

Jacobite
08-10-2012, 01:17 PM
The bag of coke was mentioned in this article:
http://www.lohud.com/article/20120603/NEWS02/306030045/Lauren-Spierer-mystery-New-accounts-say-she-staggered-away-after-night-heavy-drinking-drug-use?nclick_check=1

From my admittedly limited observation of drug users,

1. People from all social classes use many different types of drugs, including cocaine.
2. Persons who are addicted to cocaine (and cocaine is VERY addicting) find it almost impossible to have cocaine available and not use it all up.

But, you don't start out as a beginner, buying it by the bag. There were numerous people over who could have left it there.

Jupiter812
08-10-2012, 01:24 PM
Maybe the bag is what Lauren and CR were going back to Smallwood for.

Blythe
08-10-2012, 01:32 PM
What is it going to take to solve this case?

British
08-10-2012, 02:04 PM
You are quick to dismiss new theories. Why would it be impossible for her to walk the opposite way across College? What "state" was she in?

Some people confuse 'blacked-out' with 'passed out', she may very have well walked out of JR's like he says.

Or are you just entirely convinced Lauren never left JR's, period?



Yes, theoretically she could have walked out, but I think that was essentially impossible. Why? Because if CR who was in much better shape than her could not continue partying and had to be "put to bed" by his roomate, there is no way that she could.

I am convinced that LS never left JR's. I am not convinced she ever made it there.

sweet_blush
08-10-2012, 02:31 PM
I am convinced that LS never left JR's. I am not convinced she ever made it there.I personally agree with this, but there is a missing piece of the puzzle that is eluding LE somehow.

Ros
08-10-2012, 03:11 PM
But, you don't start out as a beginner, buying it by the bag. There were numerous people over who could have left it there.

IMHO, if a person has a bag of it in their apartment, it is more likely to indicate that the person plans to sell it than that the person plans to use it. Yes, some users are also dealers who sell to support their own habit, but they usually try to sell it quickly before they use it all themselves.

Also, the report did not state the quantity in the bag. Sometimes a bag may contain just enough for one day's supply.

Blythe
08-10-2012, 03:52 PM
80,640 hours - perhaps they are having the PsOI wait, keeping them off balance, seeing who will crack or make a deal....

To rephrase this, I hope LE is able to make effective use of this delay. It seems CS was hinting at that.

Ros
08-10-2012, 04:48 PM
http://m.theindychannel.com/w/news-top/story/70215619/
See link for details

British
08-10-2012, 04:56 PM
http://m.theindychannel.com/w/news-top/story/70215619/
See link for details

Wow. I am stunned by the bureaucracy and incompetence of the office in Indiana who worked on this. It took them all this time to conclude it was an Asian male's skull? And left her family hanging out there all this time? Unbelievable.

sweet_blush
08-10-2012, 05:32 PM
What is it going to take to solve this case?

Faith. Dedication. Persistence. Resilience. Love.

Just one tiny break along the way, a drunken conversatio at a bar...

A hunter's or fisherman's random encounter...

A chance memory by someone who was close to the situation...:heartbeat:

Most of all... LOVE for LAUREN.

:heartbeat:

sweet_blush
08-10-2012, 06:11 PM
Let's get right back on that horse, WS... it's GO TIME!!!

I joined this site because you all, (WE ALL, I am honored to join you ;) are good at what you do.

GAME ON bizitches (as we say on PT ;)

Back to the drawing board....

Blythe
08-10-2012, 06:55 PM
omd, (oh my dog) so much for dental analysis, and my compassion to the
asian man's family. What was that all about?

Where are you Lauren? We're looking. We care.

cluciano63
08-10-2012, 07:18 PM
Wow. I hope I never disappear in Indiana...

Blythe
08-10-2012, 07:23 PM
Wow. I hope I never disappear in Indiana...

So do we. We'd be looking for you, too.

cluciano63
08-10-2012, 08:07 PM
This is just shocking to me...and sad for Lauren and her family. The extended drawn-out time it took them to conclude this was an ASIAN MALE led many to believe that against the odds, this could be Lauren.

Now, back to the beginning, with nothing more to go on than ever...

sweet_blush
08-10-2012, 08:37 PM
Now, back to the beginning, with nothing more to go on than ever...We have love for Lauren, and love for the POIs, and love for all of the communities, both IRL and on-line that pray, desire, and will not quit until there is closure here.

So... back to the drawing board, my new WS friends:newhere:

Jacobite
08-10-2012, 08:53 PM
I do know a friend of Lauren's who is not unhappy with the results. She wants her friend to be found alive.

cluciano63
08-10-2012, 08:54 PM
I do know a friend of Lauren's who is not unhappy with the results. She wants her friend to be found alive.

Everyone wants that...but not even her parents believe it to be the case.

Jupiter812
08-10-2012, 09:14 PM
I'd like to know who this "forensic anthropologist" is because there is no such position in the Marion County staff directory. I wonder if they contracted this out.

I'd say yes, the dept as a whole is incompetent, but look at the dept's forensic pathologist and her controversial and troubled history of high-profile cases.

http://advanceindiana.blogspot.com/2006/11/more-trouble-ahead-for-coroners-office.html

British
08-10-2012, 09:30 PM
I'd like to know who this "forensic anthropologist" is because there is no such position in the Marion County staff directory. I wonder if they contracted this out.



It has to be a contract.

concernedmother
08-10-2012, 09:32 PM
Wow. I hope I never disappear in Indiana...

Me too. I live here. :rocker:

concernedmother
08-10-2012, 09:38 PM
The 56-year-old man told police he had been in the parking garage watching the Bloomington bar where Lauren Spierer (SPEER'-ur) partied with friends before she disappeared in June 2011.Police say the man made bizarre comments about Spierer's disappearance and claimed he met her once at a shooting range.
From the link on the previous page.
I think I would at least do some serious interrogation with this dude.

sweet_blush
08-10-2012, 09:53 PM
I do know a friend of Lauren's who is not unhappy with the results. She wants her friend to be found alive.

I agree. I think many of us including the Spierer family have resigned ourselves to the worst probable outcome.

BUT...despite overwhelming odds, until proven otherwise, I am going to continue to believe that Lauren is still breathing as we speak, and wants to come home to her family.

I believe in miracles, and I also believe in the power of LOVE to help bring the answers, and the closure we all are praying for...

:heartbeat:

bx2
08-10-2012, 09:59 PM
I'd like to know who this "forensic anthropologist" is because there is no such position in the Marion County staff directory. I wonder if they contracted this out.

I'd say yes, the dept as a whole is incompetent, but look at the dept's forensic pathologist and her controversial and troubled history of high-profile cases.

http://advanceindiana.blogspot.com/2006/11/more-trouble-ahead-for-coroners-office.html

Pretty sure this is the guy-

http://archlab.uindy.edu/faculty_nawrockibio.php

bx2
08-10-2012, 10:11 PM
The 56-year-old man told police he had been in the parking garage watching the Bloomington bar where Lauren Spierer (SPEER'-ur) partied with friends before she disappeared in June 2011.Police say the man made bizarre comments about Spierer's disappearance and claimed he met her once at a shooting range.
From the link on the previous page.
I think I would at least do some serious interrogation with this dude.

He was interviewed. Detectives took him to the station for questioning.

"One thing to make clear," Qualters said, "he did not have any additional information other than what had been released to the media previously, so he is not considered a suspect and was essentially eliminated as having any involvement in that case." (http://www.wthr.com/story/19243465/guns-found-after-man-arrested-near-iu-campus?clienttype=printable)

I'm trying to take that quote as the police have more info that hasn't been released in order to verify any potential confessions.

Darcyline
08-10-2012, 11:00 PM
Well, good to know it isn't her. I am starting to think they hadn't been testing the skull at all and then were like oh crap! when more momentum started to get behind thinking it was Lauren.
I am pretty sure Lauren is no longer with us on Earth. However, I would like to believe she isn't just a skull floating in water right now. I have mixed feelings. I want her to be found for her family and for possible justice against the person/people who hurt her. However, as long as she isn't found there is always that ability to pretend she isn't dead. I realized I was doing that with Mickey Shunick in the back of my mind and her body being found shook me a lot more than I expected it would. Ultimately, a good thing, but so sad that Mickey and Lauren and so many others have their lives cut short.

Snapfade
08-10-2012, 11:00 PM
I'm not following the planted evidence line of thinking. Who, realistically besides the boyfriend, would have had the opportunity to plant the drugs? And to what end?

Maybe if someone was desperate to throw the police off track someone might do that I guess... But that would mean drugs weren't directly involved with what happened but you want the police to think she was mixed up in drugs and her disappearance was somehow drug related.

But if her disappearance WAS drug related in any way who'd want to risk planting evidence that might even be traceable? ...Let alone now connect you to the disappearance?

Im pretty comfortable in saying there is very good chance that DR stashed the drugs for LS (or corey)before she was attempting her fake ID entrance into kilroys

Jupiter812
08-10-2012, 11:10 PM
Classes begin Aug 20. Supposedly CR and DR will be returning as seniors.

Jupiter812
08-10-2012, 11:16 PM
Im pretty comfortable in saying there is very good chance that DR stashed the drugs for LS (or corey)before she was attempting her fake ID entrance into kilroys

What do you mean by "stash?" Set aside? Save for later? With or without their knowledge?

Interesting phrasing about Lauren "attempting her fake ID entrance." I'm curious why you include that. Not nit-picking, just interested. Hers was more than an attempt, wasn't it, because she was successful. Or are you saying she attempted and failed but they let her in anyway?

cluciano63
08-10-2012, 11:18 PM
If she is deceased, as I believe she must be, I hope she was buried in such a way as to contain and preserve evidence. That may be best-case scenario at this point.

Snapfade
08-10-2012, 11:33 PM
Allow me to brainstorm down this path,,,,,rohn takes drugs up to lauren room 1. Drugs were obtained at JRs? BD said they snorted kolodipin before leaving smallwood which seems would not be the choice before going out for the night, so assume coke not availavle til obtained at JRs... DR would certainly know who the aupplier was and who stands to get in the most trouble......i cant help but think DR has a theory and his would more likely than any of mine so far.

Jupiter812
08-10-2012, 11:40 PM
Whatever DR knows, the FBI knows.

Chapman said he talked to Rohn briefly about six months ago. He said Rohn met with the Spierers’ private investigators for more than two hours and “extensively” answered all of their questions and that he passed a polygraph examination administered by the FBI in New York City.


The results of that interview is probably where Dietl and his guys got the info Lohud included in their video.

http://www.heraldtimesonline.com/stories/2012/06/03/news.whos-who-in-the-lauren-spierer-case-then-and-now.sto

Snapfade
08-10-2012, 11:53 PM
What do you mean by "stash?" Set aside? Save for later? With or without their knowledge?

Interesting phrasing about Lauren "attempting her fake ID entrance." I'm curious why you include that. Not nit-picking, just interested. Hers was more than an attempt, wasn't it, because she was successful. Or are you saying she attempted and failed but they let her in anyway?

stash,,,yes set aside for later ..attempt , meaning she is not 21, the ID is fake,,,,what happens if cop at door carding and lauren shows id pictured is a brunette weight:174
Height: 5'9" ......this may have worked at kilroys that night but LS is not For Sure she can get in and doesnt want coke on her if there is any trouble,,,,,she has DR take up to her room... At this point ,,this could reason behind fight ,,,, DR may have given to another to take to her room?
Just brainstorming

Snapfade
08-10-2012, 11:57 PM
Whatever DR knows, the FBI knows.

Chapman said he talked to Rohn briefly about six months ago. He said Rohn met with the Spierers’ private investigators for more than two hours and “extensively” answered all of their questions and that he passed a polygraph examination administered by the FBI in New York City.


The results of that interview is probably where Dietl and his guys got the info Lohud included in their video.

http://www.heraldtimesonline.com/stories/2012/06/03/news.whos-who-in-the-lauren-spierer-case-then-and-now.sto

not laying any blame on DR , out of all POI's
He is The Only one
ThaT Ive Eliminated..

Snapfade
08-11-2012, 12:00 AM
What do you mean by "stash?" Set aside? Save for later? With or without their knowledge?

Interesting phrasing about Lauren "attempting her fake ID entrance." I'm curious why you include that. Not nit-picking, just interested. Hers was more than an attempt, wasn't it, because she was successful. Or are you saying she attempted and failed but they let her in anyway?

stash,,,yes set aside for later ..attempt , meaning she is not 21, the ID is fake,,,,what happens if cop at door carding and lauren shows id pictured is a brunette weight:174
Height: 5'9" ......this may have worked at kilroys that night but LS is not For Sure she can get in and doesnt want coke on her if there is any trouble,,,,,she has DR take up to her room... At this point ,,this could reason behind fight ,,,, DR may have given to another to take to her room?
Just brainstorming

Snapfade
08-11-2012, 12:43 AM
The partying at smallwood was at Lauren's appt.? I dont remeber hearing, but fight on 5th floor........

And would like to say that I've never met lauren and for that matter , I dont even know anyone that knows her. But after 14 months of research, my opinion is , this type of drug use was out of character for her,,,,and even tho I believe she used coke that night and potentially had some put away for another day, I think LS drug use was mostly limited to alcohol and smoke,,,,,JMO

kdblaisdell
08-11-2012, 01:04 AM
http://www.wave3.com/story/19251986/results-of-skull

doubtingthomas
08-11-2012, 10:27 AM
Classes begin Aug 20. Supposedly CR and DR will be returning as seniors.

What about the status of others involved? JR, MB, ZO, AB, HT. Any of them returning also?

sweet_blush
08-11-2012, 10:47 AM
What about the status of others involved? JR, MB, ZO, AB, HT. Any of them returning also?JR, MB, and I believe HT have graduated. There was speculation that ZO, and even moreso, AB... did not register for classes this PAST year...


This was from PT thread #3, I have thought about it occassionally and thought to share it here:


Tue Jun 21, 2011 12:36 AM

<modsnip>

sweet_blush
08-11-2012, 11:45 AM
MB must have been (and be) extremely annoyed with the whole situation.

At the point he 'put CR to bed', he must have been terrified about how things could appear: he is now alone with a reportedly incoherent, as well as battered-up (bleeding?) young lady...

I can imagine, especially since MB was the only one of the group that had been working on school papers, that he wanted to march LS down to JR's immediately, and distance himself asap from the situation.

BUT... at the same time, because JR was drinking hard liquor amongst other substances all night, MB was the most sober person around. Did he stay at JR's to help oversee the situation (assuming he is telling the truth about taking LS there in the first place)?

Or did he drop LS off and get out of there immediately? We know he had school papers to turn in the next morning...

British
08-11-2012, 12:09 PM
In my opinion, the most likely scenario is that LS never made it to 5 North. I believe she disappeared before. And the disappearance might have happened around the time one of the POIs "lost his memory". The story of her going back to 5 North and walking out of there might have been fabricated much later, if the POI with the lost memory asked others to cover for him because something "happened" to LS. That type of scenario also explains why no suspect car was seen around 4.30 AM leaving the building.

On another note, I am really wondering how competent the investigation for LS in the state of Indiana has been. It took over a month for the authorities there to conclude that a skull found was most likely an Asian man. They had LS's family waiting all that time. I recently watched a documentary on the case of Morgan Harrington in Virginia. Within 2 days after a decomposed body was found, the police had a match of the dental records with a positive identification.

sweet_blush
08-11-2012, 01:00 PM
I have thought a lot about the origin of the firsthand accounts that Ray_A. was reporting on PT (he, rather coincidentally, went to HS w/ MB, but is close friends with all four of JR's roommates).

My conclusion is that the info HAD to be coming from MB, whether it was told to one of JR's roommates, who had already returned to NJ first, or directly from MB to Ray, I don't know.

Several of the things stated turned out to be innaccurate, such as the statement that it was LS that tried to make the two calls from JR's phone--which JR admitted to making. Lauren reportedly mistook the I-pod for a phone, because she was so inebriated. Also, this particular user on PT stated that JR took a lie detector test, but apparently it turned out that it was NOT administered by LE, but by a private co?

One thing this person did say is that LE was at JR's apt. on June 4, where they KICKED his door open, I haven't seen that mentioned on WS.

Other things turned out apparently to be true, such as JR not having access to his car that night...

British
08-11-2012, 01:22 PM
Several of the things stated turned out to be innaccurate, such as the statement that it was LS that tried to make the two calls from JR's phone--which JR admitted to making.



Where did you get that from? That's not the case. From what is written all over news JR said that LS used his phone to make the calls. Never admitted making those calls. Not true.

sweet_blush
08-11-2012, 04:37 PM
Where did you get that from? That's not the case. From what is written all over news JR said that LS used his phone to make the calls. Never admitted making those calls. Not true.Yes, I may have mispoken by saying that JR admitted to making those call, I apologize if so, I am re-acclimating myself with the facts in this case.

From my recollection, HT originally stated that JR made the 4:15 call FOR Lauren to DR.

Ray_ came on PT saying that:

Fri Jun 24, 2011 01:26 PM


<modsnip>

sweet_blush
08-11-2012, 04:41 PM
When pressed to clarify exactly who made the call, Ray_A. could not specify.

However, when the new info came out near the one year disappearance mark, and I will have to dig this up, I think this is where I read this... it was stated that LS was so inebriated that she mistook an i-pod for a cellphone.

I may have made the mistaken assumption that JR said he made the call, but he did say that he had 8 or so shots of whiskey, and a keg at his place....

jjenny
08-11-2012, 04:42 PM
Well if somebody asked me to cover for somebody else and claim I saw a person that I didn't see-what would I say? Big No.
You'd have to be an absolute idiot to agree to cover for someone like that.
What would be the motive for JR to agree to cover for someone else and claim he saw LS that night if he didn't see her? As far as I can tell, JR and CR weren't even close friends.

sweet_blush
08-11-2012, 04:49 PM
Where I was trying to go with this all, is trying to figure out, as you mentioned, how, and why MB, CR, and JR would all make up a story about LS returning to 5 North.

And also, what was the chain of information that Ray_Anastasio was receiving? I just read that he says he is BEST friends with JR's roommates since he was 10 years old. But JR had split town and lawyered up by this point, so I highly doubt this info was coming from him. I guess I need to clarify my thoughts here, but I am particularly searching for the connection between MB and JR.

It seems to me that MB may be more close to JR's roommates?

Like I said, some of the info wasn't entirely correct, but close. It was information from someone very close to the events...

April02
08-11-2012, 05:02 PM
While what Ray A. has to say is of interest, he says that he is getting his information from JR's roommates who were back East at their parents' homes, and those roommates in the NE were getting the information from someone close to the POIs and Lauren in Indiana; it is not solid information. It is too removed to be reliable as to specifics re: who dialed, who was called, or anything else, really. I have trouble thinking of Ray A. as being "very close to the events..." as sweet_blush states.

sweet_blush
08-11-2012, 05:09 PM
Ray never said where he was getting his info.

Again, Ray also went to HS with MB, and played on the same HS baseball team, I think.

It is an interesting connection, which may mean not a single thing. But if you believe that the DB tweet is real and pertinent, then there is definitely some importance to what I am trying to say (still struggling about how to say it ;)

holly2325
08-11-2012, 05:16 PM
stash,,,yes set aside for later ..attempt , meaning she is not 21, the ID is fake,,,,what happens if cop at door carding and lauren shows id pictured is a brunette weight:174
Height: 5'9" ......this may have worked at kilroys that night but LS is not For Sure she can get in and doesnt want coke on her if there is any trouble,,,,,she has DR take up to her room... At this point ,,this could reason behind fight ,,,, DR may have given to another to take to her room?
Just brainstorming

1. I think her ID was probs made with her real photo and stats but a fake name. I think she would have the motivation and the means to get a good quality fake ID.
2. If DR and LS snorted klonopin to chill (opposite of coke) and drink she may plan to circle back to the coke later as a pick me up.
3. Though she may have had it before, interesting idea that LS may have bought the coke at JR's. I can see asking DR to drop it at her apt. I sometimes wonder why DR didn't go along to Sports or if he walked with CR/LS part way.

sweet_blush
08-11-2012, 05:23 PM
<modsnip>

^^ that is all Ray ever says in regards to where he was getting his info.

sweet_blush
08-11-2012, 05:26 PM
1. I think her ID was probs made with her real photo and stats but a fake name. I think she would have the motivation and the means to get a good quality fake ID. .

If I am not mistaken, I believe it was reported that Lauren was using one of her older sisters IDs.

April02
08-11-2012, 05:36 PM
<modsnip>

^^ that is all Ray ever says in regards to where he was getting his info.

Right. Thank you. You had linked to the PT conversation earlier, and that was useful.

I wish you could just say it, your thoughts, as I can't figure it, where you are going...roommates and Ray A. Are friends, and MB and roommates are friends and maybe MB is the source for Ray A. The guest of JR wasn't necessarily a friend of the roommates and MB...and...? Or I am all wrong :-)...

British
08-11-2012, 05:45 PM
Well if somebody asked me to cover for somebody else and claim I saw a person that I didn't see-what would I say? Big No.
You'd have to be an absolute idiot to agree to cover for someone like that.
What would be the motive for JR to agree to cover for someone else and claim he saw LS that night if he didn't see her? As far as I can tell, JR and CR weren't even close friends.


These are good questions that do not have good answers. There are clearly missing links here and it is not easy to make sense.

Nevertheless, when someone claims "memory loss" something is wrong with the story.

British
08-11-2012, 05:46 PM
Yes, I may have mispoken by saying that JR admitted to making those call, I apologize if so, I am re-acclimating myself with the facts in this case.

From my recollection, HT originally stated that JR made the 4:15 call FOR Lauren to DR.

Ray_ came on PT saying that:

Fri Jun 24, 2011 01:26 PM
<modsnip>


Interesting. #2 suggests different stories.

holly2325
08-11-2012, 05:47 PM
If I am not mistaken, I believe it was reported that Lauren was using one of her older sisters IDs.


The male poster claiming to be a family friend on PT said that it was her sisters id. I think he even admitted to some speculation on his part.

No official report on this. Even though this poster seemed genuine, you never know who is behind a post. If I was betting I would say she had a fake ID from the same place everyone else at IU has them made.

holly2325
08-11-2012, 05:53 PM
Yes, I may have mispoken by saying that JR admitted to making those call, I apologize if so, I am re-acclimating myself with the facts in this case.

From my recollection, HT originally stated that JR made the 4:15 call FOR Lauren to DR.

Ray_ came on PT saying that:

Fri Jun 24, 2011 01:26 PM

"just got some info last night... so this is for everyone who thinks she OD'd and jay rosenbaum ditched the body.. and it also answers some questions that people had earlier in the thread that i did not know at the time.

1. He did not have his car that night, nor did he have access to someone else's car

2. The outgoing call that HE made at ~4-430 in the morning was made to a friend with a car, trying to get him to come pick up Lauren and drive her back to smallwood

3. He was not planning on spending the summer in Bloomington, even before this happened. was just up there for a few weeks partying

4. For those of you saying he is not cooperating or answering questions...he has already taken and passed a polygraph test


that is all."


This is a very sweeping statement and so broad that is sounds like a lie whether it implies involvement or not.

sweet_blush
08-11-2012, 05:56 PM
The male poster claiming to be a family friend on PT said that it was her sisters id. I think he even admitted to some speculation on his part.

No official report on this. Even though this poster seemed genuine, you never know who is behind a post. If I was betting I would say she had a fake ID from the same place everyone else at IU has them made.

Ah, indeed. His user name was Treyton_Manning, and he said that his sister was a very good friend of RS.

He was actually helping with the initial search, with his family who came to B'town (he says).

sweet_blush
08-11-2012, 06:00 PM
This is a very sweeping statement and so broad that is sounds like a lie whether it implies involvement or not.Yeah, Ray was doing a lot of defending of the POIs.

That was when the PTer who claimed to be one of JW's roommates (I personally believe him, that he was JW's roommate) came in and really took Ray_A to task about a lot of the particular details.

Ray mentioned that he and aaronwg, JW's alleged roommate PTer, got into a pretty heated PM discussion.

bessie
08-11-2012, 08:30 PM
:bump:
You can't copy and paste posts, but we did allow linking to PT for awhile early on. Reference posts with date/time or a post number. If it causes a problem I'll let you know.

ETA: Thanks for asking before you posted.

Thanks, Bessie.

A lot of the PT threads got modded, but there are some very specific, pertinent posts that are controversial.

Most of the ZO material was modded quickly fwiw...

sweet_blush
08-11-2012, 09:13 PM
I'm not exactly sure what you are saying, Bessie. That you don't allow linking to PT now?

PT doesn't number its posts, so it is difficult to clarify specific postings, except by time and date. If you'd prefer, I will refrain entirely from referencing PT.

Also, I don't understand your comment referring to ZO?

tia.

VeryVeritas
08-11-2012, 11:24 PM
I find reason to believe that Lauren may have been taken from Corey Rossman on the way to 5 North or that he handed her over to someone else on the way there. Refreshing his memory
seems to be important to the case.

The PI's said she was seen on his back over there. They didn't elaborate on who saw this. But who do you think she was handed off to? Are you suggesting that she never made it to CR's or to JR's? If you are, why would CR, MB and JR make the rest of their stories up? Didn't you think she was put into that Lake by the local dude? Why would CR/MB/JR all cover for him?

VeryVeritas
08-11-2012, 11:48 PM
I've followed this case since day 1... Are here is a long list of things I've uncovered. In no random order.

-JR's alleged houseguest DB comes from big time money... They apparently met at Cranbook Kingswood (Yeah the same school that Clarence who's parents had a real good marriage from the movie 8 mile went to)

-DB's family is big into commercial real estate, billions. Apparently, their management company rented an apartment to a Michigan football player that was known for raping girls in their sleep.

-Both JR and DB have younger sisters, and I'd like to think they would never want something like this to happen to LR and JB. JB being a Freshman at Boston U and former keynote speaker at Cranbook Class of 2012 Graduation.

-ChickJustin is part genius part evil. The evil being she is her own worst enemy. An amazing sleuther, (we've had convo's via email about this case). She even managed to have plain clothed state troopers arrive at her door questioning her. She was even smart enough to video tape the entire encounter.

-Carl Salzmann CR's defense attorney was at one time on the other side of the fence. A former prosecutor who most think botched the Jill Behrman case. Many think the man in prison (John Myers) serving time for the murder isn't even the prime suspect. Seems this deparment has a history of botching things.

-If the Kennedy guy can be found guilty of murder 20 odd years later any one with any name or money can be found guilty in a court of law.

That's all I have on the top of my head for now!


If these people are this wealthy, you can count on this:
1) LS will never be found.
2) No one will ever be prosecuted.
3) The truth will never be public.

Early on, there were discussions about how JR was connected to LS and out of respect she may have been given a proper burial. I would lean towards doubling her up in a Jewish Mausoleum or grave, which would never be discovered. It all depends if these people are totally void of any conscience.

I think expecting her to be dumped in a river, like the Asian guy's skull, would be more consistent with kidnapper/rapist/serial killer scenarios. If CR/MB/JR were directly involved in her disappearance, then I would reason they would do something more civilized with her body. Yet, I do leave room for POI's or mystery person(s) to have taken her to Cover some A$$'s.
In that scenario, a more professional disposal situation. Either way, I do not think her remains will ever be found, unless someone directly involved comes clean.

I also doubt that the DEA / FBI is going to go after Rich spoiled brats who let their partying or guests get out of control. They work for the Rich and spoiled. There are strange deaths every day all over the country WITH a body that they don't bother to investigate thoroughly. They have different objectives in mind, too much to do, and no one in government LE is going to go up against billionaires.

VeryVeritas
08-11-2012, 11:53 PM
Did she really make it back to 5 North at all?

Did the PI's not say that after LS fell flat on her face without blocking with her hands after exiting the alley (at the entry to the gravel lot that goes to 5N from SW) that she was seen on CR's back and was conscious AT 5N?
They said "was seen" that could be camera (but there is no acknowledged footage of that) but it sounds more like an eyewitness account.

VeryVeritas
08-12-2012, 12:01 AM
All along I thought that JR and MB might have simply decided to cover up for someone else (another POI), taking the word of that POI as true. So, in their minds they might have thought they were doing the right thing to protect a friend who did "nothing wrong".

In my opinion there 2 keys pieces of the story among the many:

1. The fact that her personal items were found in the alley. This suggests that something serious happened there. The police have never disclosed what the "activity" recorded in the cameras was. I would not be surprised at all if LS died there and then. Or that an assault against her started there and was completed somewhere else.

2. The fact that one POI claimed "memory loss". Although theoretically possible, that strongly suggests some sort of wrongdoing. Taken together with the fact that this POI never agreed to talk to police (that is my understanding from what I read), this creates huge questions and doubts.

The "Activity" has not been confirmed, however the PI's said that she fell face down into the gravel without blocking with her hands. Since CR was right there, it would be reasonable that he tried to get her up. This is the location where her wallet was found within a few minutes later and placed on the ledge. I have always had a problem with the fact that this guy picked up the wallet just minutes after she was laying there, but claimed not to see anything else. How could he miss CR trying to get her up? Or CR carrying her on his back? CR moved very quickly... but then someone saw CR carrying her at 5N just after that, correct?

ared684
08-12-2012, 12:06 AM
Did the PI's not say that after LS fell flat on her face without blocking with her hands after exiting the alley (at the entry to the gravel lot that goes to 5N from SW) that she was seen on CR's back and was conscious AT 5N?
They said "was seen" that could be camera (but there is no acknowledged footage of that) but it sounds more like an eyewitness account.

If I remember correctly, they mention that just after CR and LS visit 10th and College Apartments which has multiple cameras in multiple angles. From the way the PI's described it in the LoHud video, CR slings LS on his back just after they leave the 10th & College Apts and that she was conscious at the time. It would be a minute or so after that, that they would reach the gravel lot and if i'm correct, no longer be captured on camera.

VeryVeritas
08-12-2012, 12:08 AM
House Bar LLC
813 North Walnut Street, Bloomington, IN
(812) 339-5646 ()

http://maps.google.com/

Ok, She fell over from a sitting position and slams her head on the concrete, then a few minutes later she blacks out and falls face down into gravel and doens't block with her hands. She then apparently gets carried to CR/MB's The she goes through the supposed (in my view lies) stuff at CR/MB's and then to JR's and then perks right up and goes not home, while barefoot and phoneless, but over to House Bar??? Nope.

Ros
08-12-2012, 12:11 AM
JR, MB, and I believe HT have graduated. There was speculation that ZO, and even moreso, AB... did not register for classes this PAST year...


This was from PT thread #3, I have thought about it occasionally and thought to share it here:


Tue Jun 21, 2011 12:36 AM

<modsnip>

ZO is listed as a student at the Bloomington and Indianapolis (IUPUI) campuses. AB, MB, and JR are not listed. HT is listed.
http://www.iu.edu/people/

VeryVeritas
08-12-2012, 12:20 AM
I was reading an old timeline of events http://legalpublication.blogspot.com/2011/06/lauren-spierer-disappearance-puzzles.html

and I ve seen something that is remarkable when someone thinks about it in light of what came out later. From that link:

Around 3:10, the couple should have arrived at Cory Rossman's apartment. Rossman's roommate, Mike Beth, claims he put Rossman to bed. Beth says he was sober and up late working on a paper. Spierer allegedly wanted to keep on partying so she apparently left Rossman's apartment to visit Jay Rosenbaum. Rosenbaum lived two doors down.

So, based on this, LS who was in worse condition than CR when they left Smallwood (based on later reports and video) and who had lost her keys in the alley a little earlier, could continue partying, while CR was put to bed by his roomate. Hello? Something does not make sense here?

And when you say worse condition, remember there are people reading this thread that may not know what the PI's revealed in June, that she fell over sideways from a sitting position on some stairs hitting the concrete with an audible "thump" (we don't know from what distance, but slamming your head like that on concrete is NOT going stimulate more partying) then a few minutes later she is blacking out falling face down, not even blocking with hands, into the gravel after exiting the alley. These are serious impacts, and besides being more FU'd than CR, she was also getting serious head injuries. So, MB IS LYING! And CR's memory loss seems also like a convenient curtain to pretend he knows nothing. These being Lies, means that JR's statements are also Lies because he has not disputed MB's statements when JR would have witnessed some of it. JR is said to have saw black eyes forming on LS, indicating she had suffered serious blows to the face. He doesn't ask how this happened??? He doesn't think this merits some sort of action? No instead he gives her a 'if you can walk to the door you can leave" test? Absurd!

Ros
08-12-2012, 12:20 AM
JR, MB, and I believe HT have graduated. There was speculation that ZO, and even moreso, AB... did not register for classes this PAST year...


This was from PT thread #3, I have thought about it occasionally and thought to share it here:


Tue Jun 21, 2011 12:36 AM

<modsnip>

That was a post by Atty.. how did Atty know about MB being the original source of JR's story?

ared684
08-12-2012, 12:33 AM
After a little FB sleuthing, I found a few interesting things to note that perhaps links the relationships between some of the names involved. Not sure if this has been mentioned before and may not hold a lot of weight but still interesting...

DR is not friends with JR, CR, or MB on FB (I actually was not able to find MB on the site). JR is however friends with LS's roommates at the time. Just makes me curious about the phone call to DR. While not being friends on FB doesn't necessarily mean JR wouldn't have DR's number, it is curious how the phone call was made. Perhaps LS did make the call and knew DR's number by heart? Or perhaps DR and JR strictly had a drug connection?

Another note about JR: he did "like" the Official Lauren Spierer page. To me, it seems if she did OD and they freaked out and hid the body, the last thing a guilty conscious like that would want to see are the updates on LS and the letters from her mom. Just interesting to note...

Also, ZO is not friends with JW on FB. To me, this rules out the confrontation at Smallwood as having anything to do with JW. If you are going to punch someone in the face because they are with your friend's girlfriend, I would assume you'd be close enough to be friends on FB. ZO is friends with HT, but his friend AB is not.

Also, from what it seems CR does not seem to have any linkage through FB to anyone. I cannot see who he is friends with or who JR's friend list is to confirm if they are.

ared684
08-12-2012, 12:49 AM
Nevertheless, when someone claims "memory loss" something is wrong with the story.

I absolutely agree it's convenient for CR to claim memory loss after being punched but I don't think it automatically shows a red flag, IMO.

If the rumors are true, that drugs were involved (Klonopin, Xanax, and Cocaine have all been mentioned), and if CR took either of the first two, drinking can ABSOLUTELY cause memory loss. I know of someone who mixed xanax and alcohol, broke into an occupied house, and woke up in jail with burglary charges and not a single memory of what he had done. The tenancy to "black out" when mixing those with alcohol is VERY high.

Again, there are no confirmed reports of CR using any drugs. However, we do know it is likely that several different drugs were involved with LS or the POI's that night.

One more note with CR: A lot of people are questioning him carrying LS as a sign he was in better shape than her. I've had a personal account of my boyfriend carrying me home and up a flight a stairs and he woke up not remembering a thing either. Just because you're functioning, does not mean you are not in a "blacked out" state.

Just trying to put a college student perspective on this.
I really hope something turns up soon. Prayers for Lauren.

sweet_blush
08-12-2012, 01:45 AM
Ok, She fell over from a sitting position and slams her head on the concrete, then a few minutes later she blacks out and falls face down into gravel and doens't block with her hands. She then apparently gets carried to CR/MB's The she goes through the supposed (in my view lies) stuff at CR/MB's and then to JR's and then perks right up and goes not home, while barefoot and phoneless, but over to House Bar??? Nope.

My bad.

I won't bring up the 'HB' theory again.

fwiw, I agree that Lauren was too unconscious to make ANY decisions....

sweet_blush
08-12-2012, 01:50 AM
That was a post by Atty.. how did Atty know about MB being the original source of JR's story?I would like to hear a response from Bessie before I reply to this.

<3

sweet_blush
08-12-2012, 03:15 AM
Thanks, Bessie.

A lot of the PT threads got modded, but there are some very specific, pertinent posts that are controversial.

Most of the ZO material was modded quickly fwiw...So I've heard.What exactly did you hear, may I ask:newhere:

;)

British
08-12-2012, 09:31 AM
I absolutely agree it's convenient for CR to claim memory loss after being punched but I don't think it automatically shows a red flag, IMO.

If the rumors are true, that drugs were involved (Klonopin, Xanax, and Cocaine have all been mentioned), and if CR took either of the first two, drinking can ABSOLUTELY cause memory loss. I know of someone who mixed xanax and alcohol, broke into an occupied house, and woke up in jail with burglary charges and not a single memory of what he had done. The tenancy to "black out" when mixing those with alcohol is VERY high.

Again, there are no confirmed reports of CR using any drugs. However, we do know it is likely that several different drugs were involved with LS or the POI's that night.

One more note with CR: A lot of people are questioning him carrying LS as a sign he was in better shape than her. I've had a personal account of my boyfriend carrying me home and up a flight a stairs and he woke up not remembering a thing either. Just because you're functioning, does not mean you are not in a "blacked out" state.

Just trying to put a college student perspective on this.
I really hope something turns up soon. Prayers for Lauren.


I understand, but there is other evidence here suggesting differently. The video in Smallwood showed LS being worse than CR and by all accounts she fell again and hit her head later, while CR did not. In other words, LS was objectively in a much worse condition than CR. So, even if CR had really a "memory loss", he was still in a better condition than LS. So, if he had to be "put to bed" by his roomate, how could LS feel so great that she wanted to keep partying?

There is a major disconnect there. This story does not fit.

British
08-12-2012, 09:34 AM
CR moved very quickly... but then someone saw CR carrying her at 5N just after that, correct?

Is that true?

Ros
08-12-2012, 09:35 AM
After a little FB sleuthing, I found a few interesting things to note that perhaps links the relationships between some of the names involved. Not sure if this has been mentioned before and may not hold a lot of weight but still interesting...

DR is not friends with JR, CR, or MB on FB (I actually was not able to find MB on the site). JR is however friends with LS's roommates at the time. Just makes me curious about the phone call to DR. While not being friends on FB doesn't necessarily mean JR wouldn't have DR's number, it is curious how the phone call was made. Perhaps LS did make the call and knew DR's number by heart? Or perhaps DR and JR strictly had a drug connection?

Another note about JR: he did "like" the Official Lauren Spierer page. To me, it seems if she did OD and they freaked out and hid the body, the last thing a guilty conscious like that would want to see are the updates on LS and the letters from her mom. Just interesting to note...

Also, ZO is not friends with JW on FB. To me, this rules out the confrontation at Smallwood as having anything to do with JW. If you are going to punch someone in the face because they are with your friend's girlfriend, I would assume you'd be close enough to be friends on FB. ZO is friends with HT, but his friend AB is not.

Also, from what it seems CR does not seem to have any linkage through FB to anyone. I cannot see who he is friends with or who JR's friend list is to confirm if they are.

Are you sure you were looking at the right FB pages? I can see JR on DR's friends list. I do not see HT on ZO's friends list.

It appears that MB took his FB account down completely. HT, JR and CR made theirs extremely private. Understandable, considering the amount of publicity they've gotten. ZO and AB still have open FB pages, but neither of them have a FB friend called Teddy (although I think that there was such a person at the time the tweet about the flashlight and Adderall was reported on the TG web site.)

Not sure a link to TG is permitted. Moderator, please delete this link if it is not.
http://tonygatto.wordpress.com/2011/07/04/man-who-confronted-lauren-spierers-friend-at-smallwood-identified-as-zachary-oakes/

British
08-12-2012, 09:42 AM
Early on, there were discussions about how JR was connected to LS and out of respect she may have been given a proper burial. I would lean towards doubling her up in a Jewish Mausoleum or grave, which would never be discovered. It all depends if these people are totally void of any conscience.



I think that's totally unrealistic. There was no time to do that, but even if there were, the risk would be far too high. It would have been discovered by now.

If she died from an OD, a 4th person MUST be involved. A drug dealer who was called to evaluate and "professionally" disposed the body. But I dont believe this theory. Why? Because the police would (or should) have discovered any such link and that 4th person would be known and arrested by now.

Jupiter812
08-12-2012, 09:56 AM
The "Activity" has not been confirmed, however the PI's said that she fell face down into the gravel without blocking with her hands. Since CR was right there, it would be reasonable that he tried to get her up. This is the location where her wallet was found within a few minutes later and placed on the ledge. I have always had a problem with the fact that this guy picked up the wallet just minutes after she was laying there, but claimed not to see anything else. How could he miss CR trying to get her up? Or CR carrying her on his back? CR moved very quickly... but then someone saw CR carrying her at 5N just after that, correct?

Where do you get that CR moved "very quickly?" That is not consistent with the amount of time it took them to "make their way" from Smallwood up the street and alley. Plus they stopped a few times and even tried to enter a friend's apartment. No, I see this more as stop and go movements.

I know of no account of anyone seeing him carry her at 5N.