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bessie
03-10-2012, 04:08 PM
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Bloomington Police search for missing 20 year old woman (http://www.idsnews.com/news/story.aspx?id=81821)
Lauren Spierer, age 20.
She is a white female, 4 feet 11 inches tall, slender build, has blue eyes and long blonde hair. She is listed as a student according to IU Bloomington's website.
Spierer was last seen walking south on College Avenue from 11th Street on her way back to her apartment in Smallwood Plaza, located on College Avenue.
She did not arrive to her apartment and video footage does not show her entering the apartment complex.
Spierer was wearing a white tank top with a loose, light colored button shirt over it and full length black stretch pants. She was not wearing shoes.

Photos and Maps

Media Links


Who's Who in the Lauren Spierer Case, Updated 06-30-11 (http://www.heraldtimesonline.com/stories/2011/06/30/news.qp-0075723.sto) (by the Herald Times Online)

[URL]http://www.lohud.com/article/20110615/NEWS02/106150373

Re: the photo released Wednesday, 06-15-2011, of Lauren leaving Smallwood Apartments the evening of June 2, 2011.

http://www.idsnews.com/news/story.aspx?id=81929

http://media.trb.com/media/alternatethumbnails/story/2011-06/257055720-08091055.jpg

http://www.fox59.com/news/wxin-laure...,1261306.story (http://www.fox59.com/news/wxin-lauren-spierer-search-expands-beyond-bloomington-for-missing-iu-student-20110608,0,1261306.story)
__________________________________________________ _________
Thread #1

Thread #2 (http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=139717&page=11)
Thread #3 (http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=139988&page=13)
Thread #4 (http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=140144&page=11)
Thread #5 (http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=140346&page=11)
Thread #6 (http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=140457&page=11)
Thread #7

Thread #8 (http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=140989&page=13)
Thread #9 (http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=141129&page=16)
Thread #10 (http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=141354&page=17)
Thread #11 (http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=141567&page=15)
Thread #12

Thread #13 (http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=6801089&posted=1#post6801089)
Thread #14 (http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=6822501&posted=1#post6822501)
Thread #15 (http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=6850497&posted=1#post6850497)
Thread #16 (http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=143223&page=13)
Thread #17 (http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=144172&page=14)
Thread #18

Thread #19 (http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=145292&page=14)
Thread #20 (http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=145575&page=13)
Thread #21

Thread #22

Thread #23 (http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=148128&page=17)
Thread #24 (http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=148611&page=17)
Thread #25

Thread #26 (http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=153109&page=16)


(http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=140294)

bessie
03-10-2012, 04:16 PM
Jupiter812's post copied from the previous thread

:praying:
Hoping today is THE day.

Anything you've heard...a rumor, a theory....at a party, on a message board... call it in. They need to know what that something is. They can piece it together.


Bloomington Police Tip line– 812-339-4477

Beau Dietl Associates– 800-777-9366, www.investigations.com (http://www.investigations.com/)

Find Lauren– PO Box 1226, Bloomington, IN 47402

helpfindlauren@gmail.com

:heartbeat:


Lauren Spierer - End the silence. #FindLauren - YouTube

Mophebius
03-12-2012, 02:18 AM
Does anybody happen to know if the alleged cell phone ping of JR's cell phone between 3 and 4 am june 3rd on a Martinsville cell tower tower is legit? Or is it just a rumor that has become quasi-fact? I have heard it from very early on in this case, including this forum and PT/HT/TG comments section. I just never heard if there was an actual coroboration or if that was just some pie in the sky fact-less rumor that people have ran with? I'm sure most of you have heard about that and we have covered cell phone ping's etc. several times. I just never got a straight answer on the JR cell ping info that has been flying around for the past 9 months. Any info is appreciated, thanks.

cluciano63
03-12-2012, 02:33 AM
Does anybody happen to know if the alleged cell phone ping of JR's cell phone between 3 and 4 am june 3rd on a Martinsville cell tower tower is legit? Or is it just a rumor that has become quasi-fact? I have heard it from very early on in this case, including this forum and PT/HT/TG comments section. I just never heard if there was an actual coroboration or if that was just some pie in the sky fact-less rumor that people have ran with? I'm sure most of you have heard about that and we have covered cell phone ping's etc. several times. I just never got a straight answer on the JR cell ping info that has been flying around for the past 9 months. Any info is appreciated, thanks.

As far as I know, no cell phone info has been made public by any reliable source, i.e. LE or the media via LE. I think that a reporter or two may have posted something on a blog about pings, but again, as far as I know, nothing official has ever been said about any pings, from any phones.

Mophebius
03-12-2012, 02:42 AM
Have we ever determined what vehicles JR or his guest may have had access to June 2nd 3rd and 4th? I know JR's vehicle was searched etc, but that is the last vehicle I would expect him to use to commit a major crime in. I dont think that he lacked common sense, but he cant have covered all his bases and I'm looking for where he may have slipped! The cell ping info is obviously a huge tool for LE and I am hoping there is more than that. I still believe that LE actually has alot to work with in this case, but obviously lacks a body and enough tangible cork-board type evidence to really turn the heat up. It's my opinion that if LE didn't have alot of info in this case they would be making more overtures and public pleas for information as they did in the infancy of this case.

Ros
03-12-2012, 10:11 AM
Have we ever determined what vehicles JR or his guest may have had access to June 2nd 3rd and 4th? I know JR's vehicle was searched etc, but that is the last vehicle I would expect him to use to commit a major crime in. I don't think that he lacked common sense, but he cant have covered all his bases and I'm looking for where he may have slipped! The cell ping info is obviously a huge tool for LE and I am hoping there is more than that. I still believe that LE actually has a lot to work with in this case, but obviously lacks a body and enough tangible cork-board type evidence to really turn the heat up. It's my opinion that if LE didn't have alot of info in this case they would be making more overtures and public pleas for information as they did in the infancy of this case.
I agree. The pleas for information are only from the Spierer's to the person(s) responsible.
There was a rumor that JR's car was not available (in the shop?) that night, but I've never seen that information in the mainstream media. There are so many questions about this case that a reporter at the IDS or HT could address. The fact that those questions have NOT been answered in the MSM makes me think that 1) LE is not releasing ANY information that could prejudice a jury and 2) LE may have asked the local media to stop investigating.

AbbeyR
03-12-2012, 10:40 AM
Does anybody happen to know if the alleged cell phone ping of JR's cell phone between 3 and 4 am june 3rd on a Martinsville cell tower tower is legit? Or is it just a rumor that has become quasi-fact?
I'm pretty sure the rumor came from here, in a post that has since been removed. I can't remember who posted it though. I believe the poster claimed they heard it from someone involved in the search, but that was never verified..? I don't think I ever read this in an MSM article. Maybe someone else can correct me if I'm wrong.

akh
03-12-2012, 11:29 AM
Jacobite also posted about the ping with the added caveat that weather conditions IIRC could've caused a ping from that tower. IOW it was inconclusive.

But I have no idea where Jacobite got that info. I don't know exactly how the technology works but I'm skeptical that weather conditions would force a Martinsville ping if the Bloomington tower(s) were working properly considering JR should be in downtown Bloomington at that time and not just in the Bloomington area.

Unless something official is said then I remain skeptical of the whole idea of a Martinsville ping being anything but rumors. Only if something like Jacobite said about weather conditions actually making it inconclusive would I see a scenario where LE would have a ping that discredits a POI's alibi and them not use it like a jackhammer. And then I wonder about how likely weather conditions could cause something like that considering JR is supposed to have been downtown.... an area that I assume is very well covered with cell service.

I'd like to hear more on the technical end of how possible that is.

doubtingthomas
03-12-2012, 12:27 PM
Jacobite also posted about the ping with the added caveat that weather conditions IIRC could've caused a ping from that tower. IOW it was inconclusive.

But I have no idea where Jacobite got that info. I don't know exactly how the technology works but I'm skeptical that weather conditions would force a Martinsville ping if the Bloomington tower(s) were working properly considering JR should be in downtown Bloomington at that time and not just in the Bloomington area.

Unless something official is said then I remain skeptical of the whole idea of a Martinsville ping being anything but rumors. Only if something like Jacobite said about weather conditions actually making it inconclusive would I see a scenario where LE would have a ping that discredits a POI's alibi and them not use it like a jackhammer. And then I wonder about how likely weather conditions could cause something like that considering JR is supposed to have been downtown.... an area that I assume is very well covered with cell service.

I'd like to hear more on the technical end of how possible that is.

I found this site to show cell phone towers that are registered with FCC. Put in city and state and it will show where they are located.

http://www.cellreception.com/towers/

Without knowing who JR's cell service is with, don't know how we would know which tower was used. I have read that not all cell services share towers.

Jupiter812
03-12-2012, 01:38 PM
I heard about the ping and so did another person on this forum. We think our source was the same but the person was not willing to talk about it again. It could be because it is indeed a rumor or the person was asked not to speak about it again. The source is in a position to be privy to information, so I believed it for a while. But I have long since closed that file and now believe it to be a rumor.

Jupiter812
03-12-2012, 01:57 PM
I came across this video several days and learned something extremely interesting. Blair says she never met CR. The news woman asks Blair if she ever heard Lauren mention CR before. Blair answers, "No." Blair was Lauren's roommate (not sure if past or at the time) and childhood friend since they were 9 years of age!

I believe without much hesitation that if Lauren had any designs on CR she would have shared this with Blair. For me, this clears Lauren of having any romantic interest in CR and makes her motivation for being with him as a source of party favors. This is a huge shift for me.

Friends of Missing College Student Lauren Spierer Share About Close Relationship - YouTube

elmorejames
03-12-2012, 02:46 PM
Thanks so much for posting that link. Though I've seen it before I found some really interesting information from that video. While the video itself, didn't shed any new light for me the comments did!!! Page 3 of comments by rokinuplate 39.202371, -86.391399.

After doing research it became apparent that these are coordinates. For example, the coordinates for the city of Bloomington, IN are 39°9′44″N 86°31′45″W. While I'm not sure how his #'s related to the degrees, feet, inches, but I tried a formula and my results were a bit astonishing.

North Moon Road about 20 miles North of Bloomington, very close to Van Buskirk Cemetery, but also, located near what looks like a body of water, river to be exact.

Here are map directions via google.

http://maps.google.com/maps?oe=utf-8&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a&q=39%C2%B020%E2%80%B223%E2%80%B3N+86%C2%B039%E2%80 %B213%E2%80%B3W&um=1&ie=UTF-8&hq=&hnear=0x886cf4183c6de777:0x9421819c084fdeaa,%2B39% C2%B0+20%27+22.20%22,+-86%C2%B0+39%27+7.30%22&gl=us&ei=uzteT7yTN8uM0QHo3qyWDw&sa=X&oi=geocode_result&ct=title&resnum=1&ved=0CCAQ8gEwAA

Jupiter812
03-12-2012, 04:04 PM
Thanks so much for posting that link. Though I've seen it before I found some really interesting information from that video. While the video itself, didn't shed any new light for me the comments did!!! Page 3 of comments by rokinuplate 39.202371, -86.391399.

After doing research it became apparent that these are coordinates. For example, the coordinates for the city of Bloomington, IN are 39°9′44″N 86°31′45″W. While I'm not sure how his #'s related to the degrees, feet, inches, but I tried a formula and my results were a bit astonishing.

North Moon Road about 20 miles North of Bloomington, very close to Van Buskirk Cemetery, but also, located near what looks like a body of water, river to be exact.

Here are map directions via google.

http://maps.google.com/maps?oe=utf-8&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a&q=39%C2%B020%E2%80%B223%E2%80%B3N+86%C2%B039%E2%80 %B213%E2%80%B3W&um=1&ie=UTF-8&hq=&hnear=0x886cf4183c6de777:0x9421819c084fdeaa,%2B39% C2%B0+20%27+22.20%22,+-86%C2%B0+39%27+7.30%22&gl=us&ei=uzteT7yTN8uM0QHo3qyWDw&sa=X&oi=geocode_result&ct=title&resnum=1&ved=0CCAQ8gEwAA

Call and report it.

FrostByte
03-12-2012, 04:10 PM
This is such a sad case. Hope they find her to give her family some peace.

Sent From My Android Using Tapatalk

doubtingthomas
03-12-2012, 04:30 PM
Thanks so much for posting that link. Though I've seen it before I found some really interesting information from that video. While the video itself, didn't shed any new light for me the comments did!!! Page 3 of comments by rokinuplate 39.202371, -86.391399.

After doing research it became apparent that these are coordinates. For example, the coordinates for the city of Bloomington, IN are 39°9′44″N 86°31′45″W. While I'm not sure how his #'s related to the degrees, feet, inches, but I tried a formula and my results were a bit astonishing.

North Moon Road about 20 miles North of Bloomington, very close to Van Buskirk Cemetery, but also, located near what looks like a body of water, river to be exact.

Here are map directions via google.

http://maps.google.com/maps?oe=utf-8&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a&q=39%C2%B020%E2%80%B223%E2%80%B3N+86%C2%B039%E2%80 %B213%E2%80%B3W&um=1&ie=UTF-8&hq=&hnear=0x886cf4183c6de777:0x9421819c084fdeaa,%2B39% C2%B0+20%27+22.20%22,+-86%C2%B0+39%27+7.30%22&gl=us&ei=uzteT7yTN8uM0QHo3qyWDw&sa=X&oi=geocode_result&ct=title&resnum=1&ved=0CCAQ8gEwAA

I went to googlemaps.com and put in the coordinates from rokinuplate minus the comma and this is what I got:

9474-9540 E Baby Creek Rd
Bloomington, IN 47408 0.4 mi NW

It appears to go around a body of water.

After looking at a different map up close I am not sure there is any body of water along this road. Maybe someone can verify if there is water along this road.

Jupiter812
03-12-2012, 04:55 PM
I went to googlemaps.com and put in the coordinates from rokinuplate minus the comma and this is what I got:

9474-9540 E Baby Creek Rd
Bloomington, IN 47408 0.4 mi NW

It appears to go around a body of water.

Interesting. That is a fairly remote area and it floods annually. The body of water is likely Brummetts Creek.

jjenny
03-12-2012, 04:58 PM
I came across this video several days and learned something extremely interesting. Blair says she never met CR. The news woman asks Blair if she ever heard Lauren mention CR before. Blair answers, "No." Blair was Lauren's roommate (not sure if past or at the time) and childhood friend since they were 9 years of age!

I believe without much hesitation that if Lauren had any designs on CR she would have shared this with Blair. For me, this clears Lauren of having any romantic interest in CR and makes her motivation for being with him as a source of party favors. This is a huge shift for me.

Friends of Missing College Student Lauren Spierer Share About Close Relationship - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tuE5RZfMeQE)
Considering LS had a boyfriend (who appear to be well liked by her friends), she might have not wanted to tell her friends about her design on other men.

JeannieC
03-12-2012, 11:28 PM
Remains Found Near Newton, IL at State Crime Lab
By: Tom McClanahan
Updated: March 12, 2012


Human remains were found over the weekend near Newton, Illinois.



Local police were alerted by someone walking in a remote area who discovered a human skull.

The remains were found less than a half mile east of Illinois 130 just northeast of Newton.


http://mywabashvalley.com/fulltext?nxd_id=236762

Jupiter812
03-12-2012, 11:36 PM
Considering LS had a boyfriend (who appear to be well liked by her friends), she might have not wanted to tell her friends about her design on other men.

That is what I've figured all along, until now. Gals that age who are that close don't keep guy stuff secret . I can see that she would keep drug experimentation secret though.

jjenny
03-12-2012, 11:50 PM
The fact that one of her girlfriends didn't know CR-I don't read anything into it at all. She met him quite recently, she had a boyfriend, and that in itself could rule out her telling everybody about CR regardless of her age.

imkeylime
03-13-2012, 08:17 AM
That is what I've figured all along, until now. Gals that age who are that close don't keep guy stuff secret . I can see that she would keep drug experimentation secret though.

IDK, I think she might have kept guy stuff secret if she knew her friend(s) wouldn't approve of the guy (maybe because of drugs, even). I've seen it happen with girls who have more than one friend group, as a way to avoid drama (which usually backfires).

I don't think LS was interested in CR, necessarily ... just that she might not have shared it if she was. But she must have considered him a friend to follow him out of SW after the attack, unless there was a different motivation. Did she follow him because she was worried about him or angry about the attack ... or because they had other plans? ???

bessie
03-13-2012, 09:43 AM
Just an FYI:

Remains Found Near Newton, IL at State Crime Lab

[Sheriff Ed Francis] has received inquiries from a few communities who are investigating missing persons.

They include Bloomington, Indiana police who continue their search for missing IU coed Lauren Spierer.
http://mywabashvalley.com/fulltext?nxd_id=236762

The skeletal remains were located a half mile east of Illinois 130 northeast of Newton.

Ros
03-13-2012, 09:50 AM
The fact that one of her girlfriends didn't know CR-I don't read anything into it at all. She met him quite recently, she had a boyfriend, and that in itself could rule out her telling everybody about CR regardless of her age.

According to this article, CR was also a friend of HT's.
http://www.examiner.com/criminal-profiles-in-national/lauren-spierer-update-landfill-search-iu-fall-semester-starting

I don't think LS had anything prearranged with CR, but I do think that the evening started getting strange when CR came into the picture. And I still have far more questions than answers.

LS left Smallwood with DR to go to JR's about 12:30. Those guys would have been known to BW as well as HT. While she was at JR's, CR came over. Then CR and LS went to Kilroy's. This is where things start getting strange. CR and LS both had priors for illegal consumption. I don't know CR's age at the time, but LS was under 21. But they took the risk of going to the bar even when they could have partied privately at JR's. Then they stay at Kilroy's about 45 minutes, and LS (who allegedly never went anywhere without her cell phone) leaves without her shoes and cell phone. Why the hasty exit??? Or did they leave without the shoes and cell phone because someone moved them? My guess is that someone they wanted to avoid came in (excise police, probation officer, friend of JW, etc.).

Then they go back to Smallwood and get as far as the 5th floor when CR gets punched. There have been allegations that the person who punched CR was a friend of JW's and there have been allegations that this person was ZO, but I don't think anyone has found a connection between JW and ZO.

By this time Lauren is allegedly in bad shape. How many drinks was she served at Kilroy's in 45 minutes??? Or was she under the influence of something else as well?

Hillside
03-13-2012, 11:44 AM
I went to googlemaps.com and put in the coordinates from rokinuplate minus the comma and this is what I got:

9474-9540 E Baby Creek Rd
Bloomington, IN 47408 0.4 mi NW

It appears to go around a body of water.

After looking at a different map up close I am not sure there is any body of water along this road. Maybe someone can verify if there is water along this road.


The location of the coordinates from rokinuplate (Australian?) is in a ravine about 2000 feet east northeast of a farm identified on Google maps as 2602 North Brummetts Creek Road or nearby. A street view is available for that address.

Jupiter812
03-13-2012, 12:13 PM
You can enter that address ^ into the Monroe County GIS in the address field and see if you recognize the owners' names. Closest property address is 2650 owned by two different people. Photo of one house is shown; the other parcel may be land only.

http://monroein.egis.39dn.com/#

AbbeyR
03-13-2012, 12:33 PM
http://mywabashvalley.com/fulltext?nxd_id=236762

The skeletal remains were located a half mile east of Illinois 130 northeast of Newton.

I wonder why that article mentions Lauren specifically. It looks close to Bloomington, but not that close... I have no idea how many (if any) other missing people are in the area, but this makes me feel a lot more uneasy than the random (albeit creepy) post by some Australian guy on Youtube!

Jupiter812
03-13-2012, 01:45 PM
I wonder why that article mentions Lauren specifically. It looks close to Bloomington, but not that close... I have no idea how many (if any) other missing people are in the area, but this makes me feel a lot more uneasy than the random (albeit creepy) post by some Australian guy on Youtube!

Maybe LE has info that points to the area as a possible direction... The Wabash Valley extends into Indiana, so in that sense it is a shared area. It's proximity to I-70 is of note too--easy off, easy on. Lastly, and most creepily is the possibility of scattered remains in different areas.

Australia--musical credit for this video (Jacobite has linked to several times) is by a person who lives in Australia. (Lauren Spierer) Lauren Dear Lauren.wmv - YouTube

elmorejames
03-13-2012, 03:05 PM
OK that is really creepy, being that the guy is a semi-famous musician. What seems stranger is that the song was performed by him but written by Catherine Rothschild, who may or may not have been friends with LS. Even creepier is Rothschild's public rant with/ against Gabe Rivera....

http://privateinvesigations.blogspot.com/2011/10/lauren-spierer-is-it-hate-crime-case.html

<modsnip>

LET'S CHECK THAT FIELD WITH THE GPS COORDINATES PEOPLE.

Hillside
03-13-2012, 04:06 PM
You can enter that address ^ into the Monroe County GIS in the address field and see if you recognize the owners' names. Closest property address is 2650 owned by two different people. Photo of one house is shown; the other parcel may be land only.

http://monroein.egis.39dn.com/#
The tract on which the point in question is located (53-06-22-400-03.000-003) was purchased by non-resident lumber men from the nearby farmer (53-06-22-100-003.000-003) in April last year. It is private property, in case anyone gets the notion to go exploring.

Darcyline
03-13-2012, 04:49 PM
It is difficult for me to say what exactly happened with CR. I didn't tell my close girlfriends about some men depending on the situation. It is frustrating because a bunch of college students can be so unpredictable or sometimes act in strange ways that may or may not mean something. I don't think I will ever feel comfortable making firm conclusions as to the exact nature of all of the relationships in this group.

I hope we get quick resolution whether this is her or not.

Janeumayer
03-14-2012, 12:04 AM
Maybe we should contact the parents with these coordinates? I think they would push LE into searching... JMO

Also, I rounded out the last digits and came out to the other side of the road from the cemetery: 39°20′24″N 86°39′14″W

Do not know how to do a link to the map. Just use google maps.

shotgunhomicide
03-14-2012, 04:33 AM
Hi guys! I'm a first time poster to the LS board and a relatively new member of WS, but a LONG time lurker. I usually don't get insanely interested in missing persons cases. Mainly because there's often times no promises of new information after a certain time and sometimes no resolution. However, Lauren's disappearance is captivating in the worse sense of the term between the perfect set of bad circumstances and the eerie silence that's not very prevalent among the public whereas they usually want to do what they can to help. I'm only older than LS by a year and I can't imagine how terrible it would feel to be in her (or her family's) position and not have a single friend who would be willing to put themselves through the ringer to ensure my safe return. It's heartbreaking in more ways than one, but that bothers me the most.

Anyways, I don't have much to offer to the discussion that could possibly bring some new insight on this case. I just hope she's found soon (alive and well, preferably) for the sake of everyone that's involved.

shotgunhomicide
03-14-2012, 04:35 AM
While i'm thinking of it, does any of the locals know if the coordinates to that area near the water has been searched for evidence? It seems like an awfully strange (and specific) comment to make if the commenter didn't have some kind of information that we do not.

Hillside
03-14-2012, 09:11 AM
Maybe we should contact the parents with these coordinates? I think they would push LE into searching... JMO

Also, I rounded out the last digits and came out to the other side of the road from the cemetery: 39°20′24″N 86°39′14″W

Do not know how to do a link to the map. Just use google maps.
The coordinates were given by rokinuplate in decimal degrees. Converting to degrees, minutes, seconds requires conversion.

http://transition.fcc.gov/mb/audio/bickel/DDDMMSS-decimal.html

The decimal degree coordinates given are for the location in the ravine shown on the previous page, assuming a NAD83/WGS84 projection. If you look closely on Google Earth, you'll see a private road going part of the way up the ravine from North Brummetts Creek Road ending near some structures less than 1/4 mile from the point in question.

imkeylime
03-14-2012, 09:14 AM
Hi guys! I'm a first time poster to the LS board and a relatively new member of WS, but a LONG time lurker. I usually don't get insanely interested in missing persons cases. Mainly because there's often times no promises of new information after a certain time and sometimes no resolution. However, Lauren's disappearance is captivating in the worse sense of the term between the perfect set of bad circumstances and the eerie silence that's not very prevalent among the public whereas they usually want to do what they can to help. I'm only older than LS by a year and I can't imagine how terrible it would feel to be in her (or her family's) position and not have a single friend who would be willing to put themselves through the ringer to ensure my safe return. It's heartbreaking in more ways than one, but that bothers me the most.

Anyways, I don't have much to offer to the discussion that could possibly bring some new insight on this case. I just hope she's found soon (alive and well, preferably) for the sake of everyone that's involved.

Welcome! I agree, it's definitely disturbing how the people with LS that night haven't stepped up. My daughter is younger than LS (high school sophomore), and it's changed the way we discuss who she hangs out with and where. "Will they have your back?" is a big question for me. I like to think most will, but I realize that's not always the case.

The set of circumstances here (a "perfect storm," as you note) could have been altered at so many points: if Sports hadn't kicked LS out (which they allegedly did), if someone had stopped her from following CR out of SW, if JR hadn't let her leave alone so late and w/o a phone (which he claims he did). I guess that one bothers me the most ... and makes me wonder.

Jupiter812
03-14-2012, 11:00 AM
What do you all think about the fact that a commenter posted those coordinates?

Does "rokinuplate" mean anything? Is it an anagram?

Hillside
03-14-2012, 11:14 AM
What do you all think about the fact that a commenter posted those coordinates?

Does "rokinuplate" mean anything? Is it an anagram?
We may be following a lead that could originate from a bored Australian trying to start a wild goose chase. Rokinuplate hides his identity well. He appears to live in Sydney and have an interest in fashion, cologne, body building, music, and tattoos. I wouldn't be pursuing this lead if not for the following post on June 2, 2011:

http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Discuss:What_is_better_us_army_delta_force_or_brit ish_sas

imkeylime
03-14-2012, 12:41 PM
What do you all think about the fact that a commenter posted those coordinates?

Does "rokinuplate" mean anything? Is it an anagram?

IDK, maybe it's straightforward ... rokin up late, i.e., rocking, up late. I'd say he's young, based on youtube stuff, and likes to mess around on-line, i.e., he called a blue-eyed blonde in a youtube video "sexually arousing." I found that kind of creepy ... though he might have been going for humor, based on the context.

elmorejames
03-14-2012, 01:03 PM
Just to clear the air, I am the one who started the Rokinuplate talk. I noticed his comment, or lack of comment, posted on that video. It just stood out to me that there were no words, just numbers.

Even if he's in Australia, the fact that those coordinates are 20 miles from Bloomington, I cannot and will not let that go. You don't just pick a spot on a map and make that comment on on of millions of videos on YouTube.

I can't find any ties between rokinuplate to anything or anyone regarding that case. But the bottom line is, it's just too close not rule out. Find answers now, ask questions later.

bessie
03-14-2012, 01:31 PM
bumping from the beginning of the thread.


Anything you've heard...a rumor, a theory....at a party, on a message board... call it in. They need to know what that something is. They can piece it together.


Bloomington Police Tip line– 812-339-4477

Beau Dietl Associates– 800-777-9366, www.investigations.com (http://www.investigations.com/)

Find Lauren– PO Box 1226, Bloomington, IN 47402

helpfindlauren@gmail.com

:heartbeat:



You've got a good eye, Elmore James.

I don't recall that area as one that was previously searched, unless it was done privately.

imkeylime
03-14-2012, 01:48 PM
Just to clear the air, I am the one who started the Rokinuplate talk. I noticed his comment, or lack of comment, posted on that video. It just stood out to me that there were no words, just numbers.

Even if he's in Australia, the fact that those coordinates are 20 miles from Bloomington, I cannot and will not let that go. You don't just pick a spot on a map and make that comment on on of millions of videos on YouTube.

I can't find any ties between rokinuplate to anything or anyone regarding that case. But the bottom line is, it's just too close not rule out. Find answers now, ask questions later.

He doesn't seem to show up on the phish board, but I did find an on-line post where he calls cocaine "a hell of a drug," for whatever that's worth. IDK if it's even the same guy, but the user name was the same. It's definitely a weird thing ...

bessie
03-14-2012, 02:02 PM
We may be following a lead that could originate from a bored Australian trying to start a wild goose chase. Rokinuplate hides his identity well. He appears to live in Sydney and have an interest in fashion, cologne, body building, music, and tattoos. I wouldn't be pursuing this lead if not for the following post on June 2, 2011:

http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Discuss:What_is_better_us_army_delta_force_or_brit ish_sas
Hi, Hillside. It's nice to have you posting with us. Welcome.

I read all of the new posts late last night, and did some searching around, myself. The poster who left the comment has a good bit of exposure on the web, as you've noted, and I think could be ID'd rather easily by anyone with the right capabilities IF it's the same person using that handle. That leaves me with some reservations about the post because it's not exactly "anonymous". I don't think it should be dismissed, however, just find that part odd.

Jupiter812
03-14-2012, 02:13 PM
Just to clear the air, I am the one who started the Rokinuplate talk. I noticed his comment, or lack of comment, posted on that video. It just stood out to me that there were no words, just numbers.

Even if he's in Australia, the fact that those coordinates are 20 miles from Bloomington, I cannot and will not let that go. You don't just pick a spot on a map and make that comment on on of millions of videos on YouTube.

I can't find any ties between rokinuplate to anything or anyone regarding that case. But the bottom line is, it's just too close not rule out. Find answers now, ask questions later.

I thought of some possible ties over lunch but only in terms of a few posters' names here that relate to former rule of Australia.

The location is a good one. Easy drive out of Bloomington on SR 45 or SR 46 but easy to get lost once you're there and need to drive on a side road, like Hash Rd for example.

If you use the street view and click the Google arrow and continue north or south from the coordinates you can see what a vehicle would drive through. The foliage in June would be the same too--lots of it. It's only 10-12 miles from Bloomington though.

Hillside
03-14-2012, 02:29 PM
Hi, Hillside. It's nice to have you posting with us. Welcome.

I read all of the new posts late last night, and did some searching around, myself. The poster who left the comment has a good bit of exposure on the web, as you've noted, and I think could be ID'd rather easily by anyone with the right capabilities IF it's the same person using that handle. That leaves me with some reservations about the post because it's not exactly "anonymous". I don't think it should be dismissed, however, just find that part odd.
Thank you, Bessie. I've started posting because I do a lot of mapping professionally and hope to be able to contribute something to the search even though I no longer live in Bloomington.

If you convert the decimal degree coordinates to degrees, minutes, seconds you get 39° 12' 8.535" -86° 23' 29.0364". The Monroe County assessor's records show the address of the farm on the west side of the road across from where the ravine ends on the east side as 3333 Brummetts Creek Road. Here's an aerial of the ravine and a photo of the house across the road at that address. As I mentioned earlier, a private drive goes up the ravine a ways. It's a plausible location that would have taken a sadly misguided effort to dream up if it's a hoax.

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/24963956/Ravine.jpg

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/24963956/3333%20North%20Brummetts%20Creek%20Road.jpg

elmomom
03-14-2012, 02:44 PM
Has anyone considered trying to contact the rockin up late person and asking about the info...?

elmorejames
03-14-2012, 02:59 PM
I sent an email to findlauren address and BD the PI's email address..

Not sure how to reach out to rokinuplate, but not sure if that will get us anywhere, being that we are not LE, or if there is any jurisdiction.

I did realize, that Rokin is an area of Amsterdam, so he could be a Aussie transplant. Ironic that many college kids do visit Amsterdam and Australia.

Or, rokinuplate could be a handle because rockinuplate was already used an he kept the rokinuplate from one site to the next.

bx2
03-14-2012, 04:45 PM
I sent an email to findlauren address and BD the PI's email address..

Thanks for sending it along, but can I ask if you sent them the exact decimal coordinates from the YouTube comment?

To clarify, I believe the coordinates that some people in this thread are using in reference to "North Moon Road about 20 miles North of Bloomington, very close to Van Buskirk Cemetery" is incorrect and is causing a bit of confusion.

edit- 2nd comment here (https://www.youtube.com/all_comments?v=2RVX2Jlbdp0) indicates that it was reported also.

JeannieC
03-14-2012, 05:38 PM
I sent an email to findlauren address and BD the PI's email address..

Not sure how to reach out to rokinuplate, but not sure if that will get us anywhere, being that we are not LE, or if there is any jurisdiction.

I did realize, that Rokin is an area of Amsterdam, so he could be a Aussie transplant. Ironic that many college kids do visit Amsterdam and Australia.

Or, rokinuplate could be a handle because rockinuplate was already used an he kept the rokinuplate from one site to the next.


The handle "Rockinuplate" could just refer to communicating rather than a location. moo

Rocking Plates is a voice-output communication device offering two plates each with a ten second message.

http://assistivetech.sf.k12.sd.us/rocking_plate.htm

Jacobite
03-14-2012, 07:59 PM
Thank you, Bessie. I've started posting because I do a lot of mapping professionally and hope to be able to contribute something to the search even though I no longer live in Bloomington.

If you convert the decimal degree coordinates to degrees, minutes, seconds you get 39° 12' 8.535" -86° 23' 29.0364". The Monroe County assessor's records show the address of the farm on the west side of the road across from where the ravine ends on the east side as 3333 Brummetts Creek Road. Here's an aerial of the ravine and a photo of the house across the road at that address. As I mentioned earlier, a private drive goes up the ravine a ways. It's a plausible location that would have taken a sadly misguided effort to dream up if it's a hoax.

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/24963956/Ravine.jpg

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/24963956/3333%20North%20Brummetts%20Creek%20Road.jpg

A psychic was claiming a location in Yellow Wood several months ago. So,
it is likely the Aussie simply clicked on a USGS topographic map and came up
with these coordinates. You wouldn't think the bad boy would be dumb enough to tell on himself? Well, maybe better check it out because the guy who committed this crime is an idiot.

Jacobite
03-14-2012, 08:16 PM
OK that is really creepy, being that the guy is a semi-famous musician. What seems stranger is that the song was performed by him but written by Catherine Rothschild, who may or may not have been friends with LS. Even creepier is Rothschild's public rant with/ against Gabe Rivera....

http://privateinvesigations.blogspot.com/2011/10/lauren-spierer-is-it-hate-crime-case.html

<modsnip>

LET'S CHECK THAT FIELD WITH THE GPS COORDINATES PEOPLE.

Malcohm Battersby, the man who recoded the song is a different Australian.
He's not the guy who posted the coordinates in NE Monroe County.
Catherine Rothschild focused on Gabe Rivera for awhile because he told her he was the Mystery Man. We do not believe him. However, I doubt Catherine has ever been called such foul names before in her life.

cluciano63
03-14-2012, 08:18 PM
A psychic was claiming a location in Yellow Wood several months ago. So,
it is likely the Aussie simply clicked on a USGS topographic map and came up
with these coordinates. You wouldn't think the bad boy would be dumb enough to tell on himself? Well, maybe better check it out because the guy who committed this crime is an idiot.

An idiot who seems to have gotten away with it, thus far...hope he gets caught, but not feeling a whole lot of hope right now.

Jacobite
03-14-2012, 08:26 PM
Does anybody happen to know if the alleged cell phone ping of JR's cell phone between 3 and 4 am june 3rd on a Martinsville cell tower tower is legit? Or is it just a rumor that has become quasi-fact? I have heard it from very early on in this case, including this forum and PT/HT/TG comments section. I just never heard if there was an actual coroboration or if that was just some pie in the sky fact-less rumor that people have ran with? I'm sure most of you have heard about that and we have covered cell phone ping's etc. several times. I just never got a straight answer on the JR cell ping info that has been flying around for the past 9 months. Any info is appreciated, thanks.

There was a search in the Martinsville area early on that prompted this rumor. I don't know if it was a GPS ping though. More likely a record from the billing department. There is a huge difference between the GPS coordinate of a cellphone and tower usage.
June 3 was a 90 degree day. It was 64 degrees when Lauren went missing.
This weather causes temperature inversions which cause tropospheric
ducting on cellphone frequencies. So, we need the cellphones GPS to determine where Jay Rosenbaum was.

Jacobite
03-14-2012, 08:33 PM
An idiot who seems to have gotten away with it, thus far...hope he gets caught, but not feeling a whole lot of hope right now.

He thinks he's clever and I'd bet he's making some of the nastiest posts you've read. He will be caught though and before this thread hits 30 pages.

cluciano63
03-14-2012, 08:36 PM
He thinks he's clever and I'd bet he's making some of the nastiest posts you've read. He will be caught though and before this thread hits 30 pages.

??? I'd love to think so...but are you aware of any movement in the case?

elmorejames
03-14-2012, 08:43 PM
Malcohm Battersby, the man who recoded the song is a different Australian.
He's not the guy who posted the coordinates in NE Monroe County.
Catherine Rothschild focused on Gabe Rivera for awhile because he told her he was the Mystery Man. We do not believe him. However, I doubt Catherine has ever been called such foul names before in her life.

Who exactly is we? How do you know Malcohm wasn't the poster? That means, you either know Malcohm, or you know the poster, but not both? Also, how are you involved with Catherine to know what names she's been called?

Also, how was does one such as Catherine write lyrics to a song and get a man in Australia to perform her lyrics as a song?

Jacobite, you seem to ever some info that your present, that sometimes seems off, or too good to be true. JMO

Jupiter812
03-14-2012, 10:11 PM
Thanks for sending it along, but can I ask if you sent them the exact decimal coordinates from the YouTube comment?

To clarify, I believe the coordinates that some people in this thread are using in reference to "North Moon Road about 20 miles North of Bloomington, very close to Van Buskirk Cemetery" is incorrect and is causing a bit of confusion.

edit- 2nd comment here (https://www.youtube.com/all_comments?v=2RVX2Jlbdp0) indicates that it was reported also.

I'm missing something...Which comment on the link you posted indicates what was reported?

bessie
03-14-2012, 10:21 PM
I'm missing something...Which comment on the link you posted indicates what was reported?
The one that was flagged as spam. Click on "show".

shotgunhomicide
03-14-2012, 11:47 PM
I'm probably going to regret asking this since it seems silly, but i've been reading some older articles related to Lauren's disappearance and i've been seeing a LOT of comments that are supposedly from fellow Bloomington residents that claim the police killer Lauren, or covered her death up.. Can any of the locals clear this up for me. What are the whispers?

AbbeyR
03-15-2012, 10:41 AM
I'm probably going to regret asking this since it seems silly, but i've been reading some older articles related to Lauren's disappearance and i've been seeing a LOT of comments that are supposedly from fellow Bloomington residents that claim the police killer Lauren, or covered her death up.. Can any of the locals clear this up for me. What are the whispers?

I'm not a local but as far as I know, there were two people (Gabe Rivera and "Chickjustin") who posted various conspiracy theories about the police somehow being involved with Lauren's disappearance. I don't believe either of them were taken very seriously as both theories seemed far fetched and mostly incoherent (MOO).

SeeingForThe1stTime
03-15-2012, 03:25 PM
I'm not a local but as far as I know, there were two people (Gabe Rivera and "Chickjustin") who posted various conspiracy theories about the police somehow being involved with Lauren's disappearance. I don't believe either of them were taken very seriously as both theories seemed far fetched and mostly incoherent (MOO).

Those two names are the only ones I remember talking about that theory as well. Interestingly, from what I've pieced together just from comments I've read online (mostly on twitter) "Chickjustin" is bi-polar and was in a manic state at the time she was making all of those statements and at some point it appears she was hospitalized and once she was stabilized, released and was back online again she sounded much more coherent and it looks like she has deleted most of the statements she had made regarding all of that. I'm not sure if she ever directly states that she officially retracts those statements but that seems to be the case.

I haven't had a chance to review the latest threads so I apologize if this has already been posted and discussed but, does anyone have any updates or thoughts about the likelihood of this being Lauren:

http://tristatehomepage.com/fulltext-news?nxd_id=497332

Skigirl
03-15-2012, 08:30 PM
OK that is really creepy, being that the guy is a semi-famous musician. What seems stranger is that the song was performed by him but written by Catherine Rothschild, who may or may not have been friends with LS. Even creepier is Rothschild's public rant with/ against Gabe Rivera....

http://privateinvesigations.blogspot.com/2011/10/lauren-spierer-is-it-hate-crime-case.html

<modsnip>

LET'S CHECK THAT FIELD WITH THE GPS COORDINATES PEOPLE.

I don't think she wrote the song, he wrote a song that featured her poem as lyrics.

imkeylime
03-16-2012, 02:37 PM
I haven't had a chance to review the latest threads so I apologize if this has already been posted and discussed but, does anyone have any updates or thoughts about the likelihood of this being Lauren:

http://tristatehomepage.com/fulltext-news?nxd_id=497332

Snipped by me. I haven't found much about this on-line, except that an anthropologist has been called in to assist the coroner and that Jasper County itself has no missing persons. (http://www.pressmentor.com/news/x872942206/Skeletal-Remains-turned-over-to-anthropologist.)

I wonder if the need for an anthropologist suggests the skeleton has been there awhile? That's makes me think it not be LS. But that's just a guess on my part ... maybe there's a lot of decomposition based on environmental factors?

:+:MrTT:+:
03-17-2012, 08:21 AM
Spring has started early in Indiana. Anyone hears about any new searches coming up please post in a new thread so it does not get lost.
Thank-you.

Ros
03-17-2012, 05:11 PM
Snipped by me. I haven't found much about this on-line, except that an anthropologist has been called in to assist the coroner and that Jasper County itself has no missing persons. (http://www.pressmentor.com/news/x872942206/Skeletal-Remains-turned-over-to-anthropologist.)

I wonder if the need for an anthropologist suggests the skeleton has been there awhile? That's makes me think it not be LS. But that's just a guess on my part ... maybe there's a lot of decomposition based on environmental factors?

In warm weather, a body exposed to air and insect life decomposes to a skeletal stage quite rapidly, in a few weeks to a few months.

Were there any reports of people who disappeared near the Embarras (pronounced AM-braw) River around Champaign or Mattoon? I am not sure the Embarras is large enough to carry away a body at Champaign. Anyone else know?

Jacobite
03-18-2012, 06:03 PM
In warm weather, a body exposed to air and insect life decomposes to a skeletal stage quite rapidly, in a few weeks to a few months.

Were there any reports of people who disappeared near the Embarras (pronounced AM-braw) River around Champaign or Mattoon? I am not sure the Embarras is large enough to carry away a body at Champaign. Anyone else know?
There was flooding in southern IL in June of last year. So a location upstream is possible.
The roads are poor from Bloomington to Newton so, it doesn't make sense for this to be Lauren. The chances are this is a murder victim from the Chicago area who was dumped. Newton is just a short drive off the interstate highway that goes south from Chicago.
Besides, we still have a flicker of hope that Lauren will be found alive. I give this 15 percent odds of being Lauren, 85 that it's someone else. Why can't they give us a clue in less than 30 days? That's hard on families and there are dental records and height to go on as well.

Ros
03-18-2012, 07:54 PM
There was flooding in southern IL in June of last year. So a location upstream is possible.
The roads are poor from Bloomington to Newton so, it doesn't make sense for this to be Lauren. The chances are this is a murder victim from the Chicago area who was dumped. Newton is just a short drive off the interstate highway that goes south from Chicago.
Besides, we still have a flicker of hope that Lauren will be found alive. I give this 15 percent odds of being Lauren, 85 that it's someone else. Why can't they give us a clue in less than 30 days? That's hard on families and there are dental records and height to go on as well.

The roads aren't that bad from Bloomington to Newton. You'd take 46 out of town to Terre Haute, then I-70 to Effingham, then get off the Interstate and start looking for a secluded area.

Jacobite
03-18-2012, 08:40 PM
You'd think, if they thought this was Lauren, we'd be getting more info from the media.
Let's just hope they can ID ASAP.

Skigirl
03-20-2012, 08:42 PM
In warm weather, a body exposed to air and insect life decomposes to a skeletal stage quite rapidly, in a few weeks to a few months.

Were there any reports of people who disappeared near the Embarras (pronounced AM-braw) River around Champaign or Mattoon? I am not sure the Embarras is large enough to carry away a body at Champaign. Anyone else know?

I hate to even say this because it's so icky, but around where I live, a dead deer can be reduced to a skeleton literally overnight, as long as the buzzards see it.

DanInOz
03-20-2012, 11:49 PM
Everytime I wear my pink ballet flats I think of Lauren

Hoping we get some answers soon

PlainJaneDoe
03-23-2012, 07:15 PM
You'd think, if they thought this was Lauren, we'd be getting more info from the media.
Let's just hope they can ID ASAP.

I share your hope, but I don't know that lack of info from media means anything one way or another. Just my opinion, of course, and heavily influenced by what just happened in Hailey Dunn's case...lots of very strong hints (moo) that her remains had been found, but apparently this wasn't the case at all. But as always I am hoping right along with you...and, like Dan, thinking of Lauren each time I put on my ballet flats.

msam2108
03-24-2012, 11:42 PM
Hello, I have been reading websleuth threads for some time now, but this is my first to post. I have been reading different articles regarding the LS case, and came across a strange comment to an article from June 18, 2011 describing an area from someone's dream. It just struck me as strange that she mentions a valley, while the coordinates being discussed in this thread mention a ravine. Seems so strange to post something so detailed on a news article for kicks. Just thought it was interesting... and that she claims to be one of her friends?

http://www.theindychannel.com/news/28230008/detail.html

:+:MrTT:+:
03-25-2012, 03:21 PM
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-4eWP0mvkIhg/TqeHOlvYC2I/AAAAAAAAJfI/ohE_eHxtshM/s400/1025116.jpg

Those things on her wrist. The one in the middle by itself.
Last year on the 4th of July I found one of those while taking photos in the gravel area. It was laying on one of those bricks you park your car against as you park. I still have it and it looks like the one on her wrist.

I posted a picture of it on here somewhere exactly where it was laying before I picked it up. But I cannot find that picture now.

PlainJaneDoe
03-25-2012, 06:23 PM
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-4eWP0mvkIhg/TqeHOlvYC2I/AAAAAAAAJfI/ohE_eHxtshM/s400/1025116.jpg

Those things on her wrist. The one in the middle by itself.
Last year on the 4th of July I found one of those while taking photos in the gravel area. It was laying on one of those bricks you park your car against as you park. I still have it and it looks like the one on her wrist.

I posted a picture of it on here somewhere exactly where it was laying before I picked it up. But I cannot find that picture now.


Actually I can picture this post in my head because I've wondered a lot about how likely a ponytail holder would be to stay at or near the place it was dropped. I would assume not likely, but since I've been thinking about it I've noticed a number of small items, eg a tube of Chapstick on the ground outside the university fitness center, that have been in the same spot for months, through all kinds of weather. I know it is litter and I should pick it up, but my curiosity is getting the better of me. :waitasec:

You want me to look for the post?

PlainJaneDoe
03-25-2012, 06:27 PM
Hello, I have been reading websleuth threads for some time now, but this is my first to post. I have been reading different articles regarding the LS case, and came across a strange comment to an article from June 18, 2011 describing an area from someone's dream. It just struck me as strange that she mentions a valley, while the coordinates being discussed in this thread mention a ravine. Seems so strange to post something so detailed on a news article for kicks. Just thought it was interesting... and that she claims to be one of her friends?

http://www.theindychannel.com/news/28230008/detail.html

Did you notice the poll on this page about media coverage of Lauren's case? 52% of respondents voted that it had been covered too much.

:+:MrTT:+:
03-25-2012, 07:46 PM
Actually I can picture this post in my head because I've wondered a lot about how likely a ponytail holder would be to stay at or near the place it was dropped. I would assume not likely, but since I've been thinking about it I've noticed a number of small items, eg a tube of Chapstick on the ground outside the university fitness center, that have been in the same spot for months, through all kinds of weather. I know it is litter and I should pick it up, but my curiosity is getting the better of me. :waitasec:

You want me to look for the post?

Thank-you. I have the photo somewhere around here on a CD. But cannot locate it. I think not long after I sent the image to BPD and they never responded back, though I am not 100 percent sure I sent it, I believe I did. I agree the chances it was Lauren is remote, but at the time I found it I did-not know she wore those things until later when I started looking at her photos when I got back home. I was just speculating after being there and if it was hers, it may had been left like a trail. After she came out the alley and dropped her stuff there by the handrail that were found minutes later by another person, that perhaps if she was being taken to a waiting vehicle parked there by the gravel pit maybe she dropped it also to let someone know she was there in that spot also. I agree with you that its a low probability it is hers, but the fact is she did wear those, and I found one in the area where she went missing or was last seen anyways.

I never been a believer she was last seen walking down college from 11th street around 415 am. Because she had been arrested before for public intoxication I believe the charge was. So she would have went back home down the alley and not down college. Though all MOO and speculation on my part. If she is on tape walking home at that time from 11th and college than show it to us. I wont believe it until i see the video tape.

Cazzie
03-25-2012, 07:54 PM
I remember you posting the photo of that bracelet, MrTT.

Is the clasp (or bracelet) broken or missing, or is the bracelet intact and just not fastened? I don't recall.

Cazzie
03-25-2012, 07:59 PM
I found your post, MrTT:

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - IN - Lauren Spierer, 20, Bloomington, 03 June 2011 - #16

:+:MrTT:+:
03-25-2012, 08:23 PM
I remember you posting the photo of that bracelet, MrTT.

Is the clasp (or bracelet) broken or missing, or is the bracelet intact and just not fastened? I don't recall.

Its whole and intact like the one around her wrist. Sorry for responding late, I did-not notice the page had turn

Its like a ponytail holder, but worn around the wrist instead of the hair. I say wrist because I did not see any long blonde hair in it, though my vision is not what it used to be, But there could be wrist hair on it. Very fine and hard to see with the naked eye though just guessing from looking at it

:+:MrTT:+:
03-25-2012, 08:31 PM
I found your post, MrTT:

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - IN - Lauren Spierer, 20, Bloomington, 03 June 2011 - #16 (http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=6885874&postcount=538)


That is it, THANK YOU. but it appears more blue in the photo than it actually is. Could have been because I took it in the bright sunlight. But it looks similar to the one she is wearing in the picture in post 72

Cazzie
03-25-2012, 08:39 PM
That is it, THANK YOU. but it appears more blue in the photo than it actually is. Could have been because I took it in the bright sunlight. But it looks similar to the one she is wearing in the picture in post 72

It does look similar.

Especially since you found it fairly soon after Lauren went missing, it's probably a good idea to turn the bracelet and photo in to LE, along with a description of exactly where you found it.

Altho I suppose it could belong to anybody. :)

It might be identifiable by her parents (more likely, her roommates and friends). Even if LE can't get her DNA from it, if it's hers, her parents would most likely want to have it. JMO.

:+:MrTT:+:
03-25-2012, 08:49 PM
It does look similar.

Especially since you found it fairly soon after Lauren went missing, it's probably a good idea to turn the bracelet and photo in to LE, along with a description of exactly where you found it.

Altho I suppose it could belong to anybody. :)

It might be identifiable by her parents (more likely, her roommates and friends). Even if LE can't get her DNA from it, if it's hers, her parents would most likely want to have it. JMO.

I sent BPD the picture and story behind it last year. They never responded back so I let it go and forgot about it. Because I to thought the chances it was hers almost 31 days later were slim to none. But then i found that photo today in post 72, and it looks like she is setting there posing and showing that thing on her wrist. That is why I brought it back up today. But I agree it could be anyone's and just coincidental.

Its not a bracelet. But a hair holder worn in the hair or around the wrist.

Janeumayer
03-26-2012, 12:43 AM
Its whole and intact like the one around her wrist. Sorry for responding late, I did-not notice the page had turn

Its like a ponytail holder, but worn around the wrist instead of the hair. I say wrist because I did not see any long blonde hair in it, though my vision is not what it used to be, But there could be wrist hair on it. Very fine and hard to see with the naked eye though just guessing from looking at it

Hi, just wanted to say that I keep a couple of ponytail holders on my wrist. I wear them everyday so that I can put my hair into a ponytail whenever I want. I am sure that Lauren did the same.

Ros
03-26-2012, 09:56 PM
http://www.idsnews.com/news/mobile/story.aspx?section=home&id=86292

Another missing 19 year old student, but he may be missing voluntarily.

imkeylime
03-27-2012, 09:27 PM
Hi, just wanted to say that I keep a couple of ponytail holders on my wrist. I wear them everyday so that I can put my hair into a ponytail whenever I want. I am sure that Lauren did the same.

My daughter does this as well. An elastic ponytail holder wouldn't fall off easily ... even if stretched out a bit. I think LS' wristlet was found near the gravel lot as well. Perhaps both came off during some altercation? Total speculation ... but it wouldn't just fall off a wrist, IMO (no matter who it belongs to).

Chris007
03-28-2012, 01:23 PM
Thanks so much for posting that link. Though I've seen it before I found some really interesting information from that video. While the video itself, didn't shed any new light for me the comments did!!! Page 3 of comments by rokinuplate 39.202371, -86.391399.

After doing research it became apparent that these are coordinates. For example, the coordinates for the city of Bloomington, IN are 39°9′44″N 86°31′45″W. While I'm not sure how his #'s related to the degrees, feet, inches, but I tried a formula and my results were a bit astonishing.

North Moon Road about 20 miles North of Bloomington, very close to Van Buskirk Cemetery, but also, located near what looks like a body of water, river to be exact.

Here are map directions via google.

http://maps.google.com/maps?oe=utf-8&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a&q=39%C2%B020%E2%80%B223%E2%80%B3N+86%C2%B039%E2%80 %B213%E2%80%B3W&um=1&ie=UTF-8&hq=&hnear=0x886cf4183c6de777:0x9421819c084fdeaa,%2B39% C2%B0+20%27+22.20%22,+-86%C2%B0+39%27+7.30%22&gl=us&ei=uzteT7yTN8uM0QHo3qyWDw&sa=X&oi=geocode_result&ct=title&resnum=1&ved=0CCAQ8gEwAA

This area here would bring a Martinsville ping. I remember a psychic telling me she saw it by a cemetery with water running by it. Moon road is way out in the country and has a wildlife area out close to it. This is very interesting.

Chris007
03-28-2012, 01:28 PM
The location of the coordinates from rokinuplate (Australian?) is in a ravine about 2000 feet east northeast of a farm identified on Google maps as 2602 North Brummetts Creek Road or nearby. A street view is available for that address.

This land here on Brummetts Creek road is out near Unionville, headed toward Brown County. Like Jupiter said it doesn't have water on it but it does flood alot. I had some Aunts & Uncles who lived on Brummetts Creek road growing up. Lots of woods and maybe a creek or too. Just not sure a college student would know about this area but locals would.

Chris007
03-28-2012, 03:05 PM
There was a body found in the White river today in Spencer, just outside of Bloomington. More than likely the body of the 19 year old boy who went missing a couple of days ago, but the corner wouldn't say if it was a boy or girl.

bx2
03-28-2012, 05:05 PM
There was a body found in the White river today in Spencer, just outside of Bloomington. More than likely the body of the 19 year old boy who went missing a couple of days ago, but the corner wouldn't say if it was a boy or girl.

Story updated to reflect it being a male.

http://www.heraldtimesonline.com/stories/2012/03/28/news.qp-7585517.sto

Ros
03-29-2012, 08:52 AM
http://www.idsnews.com/news/mobile/story.aspx?section=home&id=86292

Another missing 19 year old student, but he may be missing voluntarily.

He came to the Bloomington police station the next day. The IDS did not report that, as far as I know, so all I can provide is the snippet from the Herald Times.

http://www.heraldtimesonline.com/stories/2012/03/27/news.qp-0553209.sto

Btown
03-29-2012, 01:55 PM
Women’s lacrosse club plays for missing student Lauren Spierer (http://www.idsnews.com/news/story.aspx?id=86366)

Lauren Spierer was chosen to play for her high school varsity lacrosse team as a freshman, but she had to quit when she was diagnosed with a heart condition.

When she went missing, the players on the IU women’s lacrosse club said they felt a connection to the female IU student with a passion for the sport they play, and they knew they had to get involved.

“Lauren is a part of the Hoosier family, and we want to help out,” sophomore and club Vice President Holly Morrow said in an email. “She could have easily been one of our teammates, sisters, or friends, and we know we would want someone doing the same thing for us.”

Tr.
04-01-2012, 09:55 PM
This land here on Brummetts Creek road is out near Unionville, headed toward Brown County. Like Jupiter said it doesn't have water on it but it does flood alot. I had some Aunts & Uncles who lived on Brummetts Creek road growing up. Lots of woods and maybe a creek or too. Just not sure a college student would know about this area but locals would.

This is an area that had been searched early on. I'm not certain anyone actually searched the ravine that's been mentioned but vacant properties, bridges, ditches, etc.. have been searched.
It couldn't hurt to track down the land owner and get permission to walk his property if there was a cell ping out that way.

If I remember correctly there is a synagogue in this area.

Tr.
04-01-2012, 10:23 PM
Thanks so much for posting that link. Though I've seen it before I found some really interesting information from that video. While the video itself, didn't shed any new light for me the comments did!!! Page 3 of comments by rokinuplate 39.202371, -86.391399.

After doing research it became apparent that these are coordinates. For example, the coordinates for the city of Bloomington, IN are 39°9′44″N 86°31′45″W. While I'm not sure how his #'s related to the degrees, feet, inches, but I tried a formula and my results were a bit astonishing.

North Moon Road about 20 miles North of Bloomington, very close to Van Buskirk Cemetery, but also, located near what looks like a body of water, river to be exact.

Here are map directions via google.

http://maps.google.com/maps?oe=utf-8&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a&q=39%C2%B020%E2%80%B223%E2%80%B3N+86%C2%B039%E2%80 %B213%E2%80%B3W&um=1&ie=UTF-8&hq=&hnear=0x886cf4183c6de777:0x9421819c084fdeaa,%2B39% C2%B0+20%27+22.20%22,+-86%C2%B0+39%27+7.30%22&gl=us&ei=uzteT7yTN8uM0QHo3qyWDw&sa=X&oi=geocode_result&ct=title&resnum=1&ved=0CCAQ8gEwAA

For Other Searchers:

- North out of Stinesville on Rail Road St (turns in to Moon Rd.) approximately 3 mi. to the alleged ping coordinate.
- Continue north 1/2 mi and road dead ends at the river.
- If going back to the river you'll need about 18 inches of absolute clearance to navigate the ruts and washed out place in the road.
- This is a popular fishing and off-roading area with locals.
- This area was heavily flooded just after LS's disappearance last year.

Again, not sure how legit the cell ping rumors are but this location is in the general area that I've focused on the most anyway.
Debris piles are plentiful along the last 1/2 mile of Moon Rd. and throughout the river bottom at the end of the road.
Soil displacement from the flooding measures as much as 2 ft - 3 ft. depth in places.
If there is any fact behind the cell ping rumor then I would think a river search would have been the way to go early on.
I'm not sure how feasible such a search would be at this point given the degree of flooding last year...however, if the state will provide the equipment..I'll gladly do the search.

Jupiter812
04-02-2012, 01:51 PM
The remains in Illinois (we discussed before) still haven't been identified.

Btown Police await DNA results of bones: http://www.wishtv.com/dpp/news/indiana/btown-police-await-dna-results-of-bones

Jupiter812
04-02-2012, 02:04 PM
Excerpt from one of the original news articles, The Herald & Review

Monday, March 12, 2012

NEWTON —

The human remains were discovered Saturday near Newton by a local person walking in an area close by the Embarras River. The area is described as a brush thicket, and the walker immediately called his grisly find into the county sheriff’s office.

Police, crime scene technicians and Coroner Jason Meyer arrived, and the work of solving the puzzle of the bones began. Meyer said he doesn’t know yet whether the bones belong to a man or a woman.

Jacobite
04-02-2012, 03:36 PM
So sad! So very sorry for Lauren's family. Such a loss for our world. I know we all want closure. But, I hope this is not Lauren. I'm not confident that any of us have a theory or a clue that would take her to IL.

Jupiter812
04-02-2012, 04:52 PM
So sad! So very sorry for Lauren's family. Such a loss for our world. I know we all want closure. But, I hope this is not Lauren. I'm not confident that any of us have a theory or a clue that would take her to IL.

Apparently the Bloomington PD have reason enough to believe that it could be her else they wouldn't have made their waiting public. OTOH maybe this is a way to signal to the public that they haven't forgotten her.

I've always said that from 5 North the most inconspicuous route would be heading west out of town. And in this case, the proximity to I-70 (easy off/easy on) is convenient, sadly.

PlainJaneDoe
04-02-2012, 05:16 PM
Excerpt from one of the original news articles, The Herald & Review

Monday, March 12, 2012

NEWTON —

The human remains were discovered Saturday near Newton by a local person walking in an area close by the Embarras River. The area is described as a brush thicket, and the walker immediately called his grisly find into the county sheriff’s office.

Police, crime scene technicians and Coroner Jason Meyer arrived, and the work of solving the puzzle of the bones began. Meyer said he doesn’t know yet whether the bones belong to a man or a woman.

He still doesn't know, or when they were found he couldn't tell? It seems like a long time to still not know?

Jupiter812
04-02-2012, 07:45 PM
He still doesn't know, or when they were found he couldn't tell? It seems like a long time to still not know?

No one has said since then whether it is male or female, that I am aware of.

Janeumayer
04-02-2012, 07:51 PM
Is the location of the unidentified body on the way to Indianapolis?

Jacobite
04-02-2012, 08:21 PM
Is the location of the unidentified body on the way to Indianapolis?

Newton is about 100 miles by crow west of Bloomington. If you go by way of Terre Haute add 50 miles each way.

PlainJaneDoe
04-02-2012, 08:31 PM
Is the location of the unidentified body on the way to Indianapolis?

I think it might be in the opposite direction as Indianapolis.

Jupiter812
04-02-2012, 08:50 PM
Is the location of the unidentified body on the way to Indianapolis?

No. The location is west of Btown and Indy is north. The location is en route to St. Louis though; it's about halfway between Indy and St. Louis which may be of interest to those who have been following regional disappearances.

I wonder if the bones are decomposed badly or if the state of Illinois is backlogged with ID cases or other? I know nothing about this.

Jupiter812
04-03-2012, 10:17 AM
Just a wee bit more to add this morning...

The entity that is doing the DNA testing is state of Illinois Crime Lab http://www.whas11.com/news/local/DNA-results-may-help-missing-IU-student-case-145859735.html.

And, the Spierer family posted on their FB page of "official updates" today, which they do only occasionally:

"Always in our hearts. Always in our thoughts. NEVER giving up. We love you, Lauren. Mom, Dad and Rebecca"

I believe this is the first time that testing for Lauren's DNA has been announced, so I can't help speculating even though the remains could be any one of hundreds of missing persons. Given the location and proximity to I-70, I'm inclined to give abduction a higher probability. OTOH any drug dealer or friend/associate of a drug dealer could know of this location, and for that matter, so could any "friend." Thoughts?

akh
04-03-2012, 02:59 PM
Could be the media speculating a little too much. It is interesting though if the remains couldn't be more quickly excluded as belonging to LS. Could only be a partial find I guess because you'd think dental records would quickly come into play. As well as size. Apparently, for whatever reason, they can't exclude the remains as not being LS though.

Did any of the known PsOI have the means to have driven that far and returned in their known timeframes? Do any of them have connections with that area or that stretch of interstate?

I'm just guessing, and I have no idea what the statistics say, but I'd think for the known PsOI they wouldn't want to drive that far to dispose of a body because they wouldn't want that long of a gap in their whereabouts. Not only would they be exposing themselves to a wide stretch of road and any number of unexpected occurrences that could involve the authorities (speeding, accident, other ticket...) but they'd create a large hole in their schedule they'd potentially need an alibi for. Let alone being seen out and about when they returned to town that morning. And lastly, you'd think cell pings would've immediately set off redflags if any of them had ventured that far from Bloomington that morning. I have my doubts any of them would've intentionally left without their phone or thought to remove the battery.

So... yeah... If the remains are LS then random abduction would go higher up the list unless there's something the authorities have with pings and the PsOI (and their circle) we don't know about.

Jupiter812
04-03-2012, 04:26 PM
Oh dear. I was starting to look at close-up maps when I came across this article from March 12 about the find. It includes some details I've not read before. So heartbreaking to consider no matter who it is.

http://mywabashvalley.com/fulltext?nxd_id=236762

Darcyline
04-03-2012, 07:04 PM
I just cannot believe this would be her, but that is probably the part of me speaking who really doesn't want this to be her. I am also interested that they are having to wait for DNA to prove it either way. Usually some clothing or the general size/hair left/gender or dentals seal the deal a lot faster. I wonder if it was a partial find or if it really is a smallish female and that is why they cannot rule her out immediately.
Not sure what I believe this means for the investigation if it is her. Would depend on pings, previous history, schedules, etc. I know some of the potential POIs left very soon after her abduction and I have always thought that more people were involved than just one person so it doesn't rule out someone she knows being involved at all for me.
I also wonder what the "other evidence" is-hopefully some sort of nice little DNA from the suspect wrapped up somehow.
If it isn't Lauren it is someone though :( Sad.

Jacobite
04-03-2012, 07:43 PM
Oh dear. I was starting to look at close-up maps when I came across this article from March 12 about the find. It includes some details I've not read before. So heartbreaking to consider no matter who it is.

http://mywabashvalley.com/fulltext?nxd_id=236762

If this is Lauren? I think the BPD had the wrong POIs.
If they have the right POIs? This is not Lauren.

This was a gruesome murder.

Alliecog
04-03-2012, 11:11 PM
I don't know, I feel like it could be Lauren and the POIs could have been involved somehow. We're not too far from the location, relatively speaking. Heading west 100 miles doesn't seem like it's too far out of the realm of possibility if a body needed to be disposed of. I hope it's Lauren, we're coming up on Passover this week which is a major Jewish family holiday. I hate being away from home, but at least I have the option to be with my family for Passover.

Darcyline
04-03-2012, 11:49 PM
100 miles round trip could take 3 hours. It is further than I imagined, but not out of the realm of possibility. Let's say she is gone by 4 and then a trip would have someone back by 7-8. Is it impossible that they wouldn't be seen? No cameras would catch them. People?
It would take some luck, but I won't dismiss it outright especially since I am not sure what we know about the POIs. Technically, we don't even know the majority of the POIs known to LE. I have heard conflicting reports on who had guests, how many, alibis, travel schedules, and whether certain individuals had cars or not for the POIs we have named.
If this is her I am praying someone was dumb enough to leave some sort of evidence that was somehow maintained over the last year. Like, DNA left behind from someone who has a record of some sort and is already in the system would be nice. That, or LE knows something we don't that would implicate someone.

I guess we wait for official results now. Someone's family should get closure from this though.

akh
04-04-2012, 01:43 AM
This was a gruesome murder.

What are you basing that on?

cluciano63
04-04-2012, 09:55 AM
The fact that they state they did find additional evidence, and are still considering that Lauren cannot be ruled out is kind of scary...not sure if it is telling or not, but it is a more serious possibility, IMO...

akh
04-04-2012, 11:07 AM
http://www.wthr.com/story/17322804/bloomington-pd-awaits-test-results-on-il-body

It is not LS according to the above...

Jupiter812
04-04-2012, 08:12 PM
The condition in which a loved one or a loved one's remains is found...how horrific it would be for the kin. I'm glad the Spierer's didn't have to get this news, but so, so sad for the family. I hope it wasn't a child.

Ros
04-05-2012, 05:19 AM
The remains are those of a male. BPD could still be interested since Joey Giza might have been in that area.
http://projectjason.org/forums/index.php?topic=10467.0

Jacobite
04-05-2012, 05:26 PM
The remains are those of a male. BPD could still be interested since Joey Giza might have been in that area.
http://projectjason.org/forums/index.php?topic=10467.0

Wow! I must admit that I found your post difficult to believe at first. But, this
guy was hitch hiking to Illinois from Bloomington. So, it is quite possible.
Also, interesting, he was into the Moe, Leftover, Dead, Phish scene. Wonder
who were his friends in Bloomington? He went missing almost exactly 2 years before Lauren Spierer.

Darcyline
04-06-2012, 03:09 AM
Good to have confirmation. Hope they identify who it is so someone can have closure soon.

imkeylime
04-07-2012, 06:23 PM
Thinking of Lauren as another holiday passes and hoping for some closure for her family and friends. IDK what I wished for in terms of the unidentified body, TBH. At this point, I guess I just wish for a solid lead. PS: Hello to all!

Jupiter812
04-07-2012, 09:02 PM
Thinking of Lauren as another holiday passes and hoping for some closure for her family and friends. IDK what I wished for in terms of the unidentified body, TBH. At this point, I guess I just wish for a solid lead. PS: Hello to all!

Another holiday passes and the next milestone is the end of the semester and graduation for some. Doesn't it seem like just yesterday that we were all abuzz about all the boys returning in fall?!

:seeya: Hi back to you...hope you're having a fine springtime.

Jupiter812
04-07-2012, 09:04 PM
Wow! I must admit that I found your post difficult to believe at first. But, this
guy was hitch hiking to Illinois from Bloomington. So, it is quite possible.
Also, interesting, he was into the Moe, Leftover, Dead, Phish scene. Wonder
who were his friends in Bloomington? He went missing almost exactly 2 years before Lauren Spierer.

FWIW I went back and read the original IDS article and they do not name his friends. I didn't find him here on WS either.

OldSteve
04-07-2012, 10:34 PM
Snipped:
Another holiday passes and the next milestone is the end of the semester and graduation for some. Doesn't it seem like just yesterday that we were all abuzz about all the boys returning in fall?!


Yes! Times flies by. I would have thought if any of the POI's were involved something would have been picked up by the PI's by now... but maybe it was a case of extreme luck for them, otherwise I'm thinking something random, or crime of opportunity... (Doesn't leave much else, unless you believe in alien abduction :beamup: )

Mophebius
04-08-2012, 04:41 AM
Snipped:


Yes! Times flies by. I would have thought if any of the POI's were involved something would have been picked up by the PI's by now... but maybe it was a case of extreme luck for them, otherwise I'm thinking something random, or crime of opportunity... (Doesn't leave much else, unless you believe in alien abduction :beamup: )

I respectfully disagree with this likely being a random abduction or crime of opportunity. I have posted several times about this on here. I believe that LE has the right POI's, in all likelyhood there's probably more likely 2 or 3 unamed suspects that BPD have been zeroed in on for quite sometime now. I believe that the fact that we haven't had an arrest or arrests in this case as of yet has vastly more to do with a lack of body (tangible forensic evidence), motive and or issues of provability without a body in the case, than it has to do with a complete lack of direction by investigator's. Pretty hard to derive new information though from people who are stone-walling behind high priced legal council.


Now I am not a detective, nor a prosecutor, or any kind of expert when it comes to such things, but based on what we know of the nights events, timing, circumstances, unique variables and probability. I would say that there is a very very slim chance that this was done by a complete stanger/ random abduction senario, maybe about a 1 percent chance that the perp/perps isn't already known to LE and investigators, but as with any case of this nature they are notoriously difficult to solve without a body or clear tangible evidence.

Regardless of any of this, lets hope for a break in the case and closure for the friends and family soon!

Happy Easter Lauren!

OldSteve
04-08-2012, 12:59 PM
snipped:
I respectfully disagree with this likely being a random abduction or crime of opportunity.....
Enjoyed reading your thoughts on this!
Problem I have with the POI's is motive, though something accidental could have happened.
The majority of abductions involve sex, especially when there is no husband involved in a divorce, control freak boyfriend, etc....

Jacobite
04-08-2012, 04:13 PM
I really wanted to believe the POI's were innocent. But, they refused to sit down with Lauren's parents. This was so cruel that it has made them look suspicious. And, yes they do have motive. Lauren Spierer was moving on with her life and was telling a whole group of people good-bye. JEALOUSY, Lauren had some real connections. She was majoring in fashion for a reason. It was no joke. I promise she was not going to be working in the women's clothing department at Walmart. She was reaching for the top and was going to make it. Now, I can't say for sure that all the fighting and drama that went on the last 2 weeks before June 3 has anything to do with her disappearance? But, it just might.
I hope her family finds the answers very soon and that Lauren gets to go home and those responsible for this go to prison for a long time.

Darcyline
04-08-2012, 04:21 PM
Motive is a tricky thing for me. We don't know everything that was happening behind closed doors and there is also no way to know if one of them is a closet psycho. Not every person with violent or sadistic tendencies shows it especially since all the POIs (at least that we know of) are really young. This isn't a 55 year old that may have suddenly snapped, but 18-22 year olds.
But, of course, there could be some other circumstances that may have led to this happening without the person necessarily being a sadistic psychopath. We just don't know and both types of cases have happened before.

Mildly graphic content in this next part so skip if you want
I think most people have eliminated this as a possibility, but I still think it is possible she ODed and the perp didn't speak up because he gave her drugs, he roofied her, and/or they had sex so he knew it was or would look like rape. I think most people think a man would just call the cops or an ambulance in that situation, but it may look differently to a young 20 something guy who has just sold cocaine, roofied someone, and/or had sex with her right before she died. I would actually LOVE to eliminate this possibility because it literally makes me that angry to think about, but I still think it is one possibility among many.

imkeylime
04-08-2012, 06:39 PM
Motive is a tricky thing for me. We don't know everything that was happening behind closed doors and there is also no way to know if one of them is a closet psycho. Not every person with violent or sadistic tendencies shows it especially since all the POIs (at least that we know of) are really young. This isn't a 55 year old that may have suddenly snapped, but 18-22 year olds.
But, of course, there could be some other circumstances that may have led to this happening without the person necessarily being a sadistic psychopath. We just don't know and both types of cases have happened before.

Mildly graphic content in this next part so skip if you want
I think most people have eliminated this as a possibility, but I still think it is possible she ODed and the perp didn't speak up because he gave her drugs, he roofied her, and/or they had sex so he knew it was or would look like rape. I think most people think a man would just call the cops or an ambulance in that situation, but it may look differently to a young 20 something guy who has just sold cocaine, roofied someone, and/or had sex with her right before she died. I would actually LOVE to eliminate this possibility because it literally makes me that angry to think about, but I still think it is one possibility among many.

Sometimes (including now) I wonder if the perp here isn't someone once removed, i.e., someone who knew the primary POIs but isn't one. For example, maybe someone in the group who accosted CR at SW wasn't doing it on JW's behalf, but because he himself was interested in LS. If that was the case, that person might have ended up at 5 North, wondering what LS was doing with CR, and waited. I realize this is speculative, but I still wonder what the motivation behind the fight at SW was all about. Did someone dislike CR because he cheated someone out of $$$, for example, or because he was hitting on LS? I've heard rumors of the latter, but why not just call JW if it was about LS and him?

imkeylime
04-08-2012, 07:21 PM
Another holiday passes and the next milestone is the end of the semester and graduation for some. Doesn't it seem like just yesterday that we were all abuzz about all the boys returning in fall?!

:seeya: Hi back to you...hope you're having a fine springtime.

Thanks, Jupiter! The same to you! I can't believe the semester is almost over. I just got back from visiting my son at college. We took him an Easter bunny, LOL. There was a flyer in the dorm lobby about an upcoming program on violence against women. He said his campus is pretty safe. And for a guy, it probably is.

I struggle with the thought that this was a random abduction. It seems like too much luck for a perv just passing through, unless hanging out at the Waffle House was a pastime or something. Wish I knew ...

Darcyline
04-08-2012, 07:33 PM
keylime-I think that is a strong possibility. I even think LE may know about some of those people even if we don't.

MonroeRes
04-08-2012, 08:11 PM
Hi everyone,
This is my first post, just been reading along. I live in Blmgton and think about LS and this case all the time. I keep going back to is CR. Early on there was a report that he asked a friend the morning of June 4 if he had "seen a little blonde girl" But JW didn't report her missing until later that afternoon, had he been contacted by someone already looking for her? If not, how did he know she was missing, and doesn't this contradict his having memory loss, if she walked him home after the hit, how did he remember that she was around his place? Another thing, the cell phone has always bugged me. Did he offer to "hold" it for her, she kept getting texts that she didn't reply to, it would seem logical that he did something with her phone to keep her from texting her bf. I just keep going back to him, I don't think this is random, I think one of the POI's knows where she is. I hope with the amount of people mushroom hunting in the woods right now in Indiana that someone comes across something of use. Praying for LS, her family, and for everyone still thinking about her.

PlainJaneDoe
04-08-2012, 08:23 PM
Motive is a tricky thing for me. We don't know everything that was happening behind closed doors and there is also no way to know if one of them is a closet psycho. Not every person with violent or sadistic tendencies shows it especially since all the POIs (at least that we know of) are really young. This isn't a 55 year old that may have suddenly snapped, but 18-22 year olds.
But, of course, there could be some other circumstances that may have led to this happening without the person necessarily being a sadistic psychopath. We just don't know and both types of cases have happened before.

Mildly graphic content in this next part so skip if you want
I think most people have eliminated this as a possibility, but I still think it is possible she ODed and the perp didn't speak up because he gave her drugs, he roofied her, and/or they had sex so he knew it was or would look like rape. I think most people think a man would just call the cops or an ambulance in that situation, but it may look differently to a young 20 something guy who has just sold cocaine, roofied someone, and/or had sex with her right before she died. I would actually LOVE to eliminate this possibility because it literally makes me that angry to think about, but I still think it is one possibility among many.

Re: your second paragraph, I definitely still think it is possible.

" Hi" to all the new people as well as those who have been here since Lauren disappeared. I cannot believe so much time has gone by and we are still asking some of the same questions we had last summer.

imkeylime
04-08-2012, 08:58 PM
Hi everyone,
This is my first post, just been reading along. I live in Blmgton and think about LS and this case all the time. I keep going back to is CR. Early on there was a report that he asked a friend the morning of June 4 if he had "seen a little blonde girl" But JW didn't report her missing until later that afternoon, had he been contacted by someone already looking for her? If not, how did he know she was missing, and doesn't this contradict his having memory loss, if she walked him home after the hit, how did he remember that she was around his place? Another thing, the cell phone has always bugged me. Did he offer to "hold" it for her, she kept getting texts that she didn't reply to, it would seem logical that he did something with her phone to keep her from texting her bf. I just keep going back to him, I don't think this is random, I think one of the POI's knows where she is. I hope with the amount of people mushroom hunting in the woods right now in Indiana that someone comes across something of use. Praying for LS, her family, and for everyone still thinking about her.

Welcome, MonroeRes! I know the feeling (thinking about LS). I may be wrong, and if I am, please forgive me. But I think that since LS went missing early on June 3, she was reported missing later that same day, so when CR said that, it was actually the morning after (June 4) she went missing, so perhaps someone filled him in? I hope that makes sense. I keep thinking that CR knows something, though, so I understand your questioning.

It's interesting that you bring up mushroom hunting. I really thought the fall deer hunting season would yield something, at least a clue. But when mushroom hunting, one is much closer to the ground, I'm sure. So perhaps there's hope in that.

Darcyline
04-08-2012, 09:01 PM
Welcome MonroeRes! Very happy to see new posters here especially since the thread has died down a bit!

I think the explanation for the him asking about the blonde girl was that he somehow vaguely remembered that Lauren came home with him so he expected her to be at his place in the morning. You are correct that that complicates the memory loss claim. I would give anything to be able to interview him personally. I am still not sure if LE has ever been able to interview him effectively given him getting a lawyer right away.
Of course, I know that is a legal right and doesn't indicate guilt, but it is frustrating sometimes.

AbbeyR
04-08-2012, 09:11 PM
Hi everyone,
This is my first post, just been reading along. I live in Blmgton and think about LS and this case all the time. I keep going back to is CR. Early on there was a report that he asked a friend the morning of June 4 if he had "seen a little blonde girl" But JW didn't report her missing until later that afternoon, had he been contacted by someone already looking for her? If not, how did he know she was missing, and doesn't this contradict his having memory loss, if she walked him home after the hit, how did he remember that she was around his place? <snipped for space>

Hi MonroeRes, welcome!

That question has come up here before as many of us had similar questions. It can be hard to remember/ find these posts after all this time, so here's one discussion, if you're interested:

Bessie quotes some of the articles with statements from friends and neighbours of CR/JR here: Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - IN - Lauren Spierer, 20, Bloomington, 03 June 2011 #26 and then it is discussed in the next couple of pages.

Unfortunately, I don't think there's a clear answer. To summarize, yes: statements are odd. But, it seems that there was some sloppy reporting so it's hard to tell whether inconsistencies come from the POI or the journalists.

I have leaned toward sloppy reporting being the case for the 'little blond girl' comment (It was actually reported as FEB 4th, likely meaning JUNE 4th, but that still would have been the day after LS went missing, after people had started looking for her) It does strike me as weird either way though -- The comment seems suspicious if it occurred prior to him knowing she went missing, and flippant if it occurred after (IMO).

Another inconsistency in those 3rd hand accounts is about where CR and LS went after being recorded in the alley. Some claimed they heard that both went back to JR's. CR's official story (via MB due to the 'memory loss') is that they went to his apartment, MB put CR to bed, and then Lauren left to go to JR's alone. But even if we give MB the benefit of the doubt and assume it's a truthful and complete account: Was he up all night working on his papers, or did he go to bed? Would he have known/ heard if CR went out again? As far as I know, CR's story jumps from MB's recollection of 'putting him to bed' to waking up in the morning not remembering anything...

Since JR's account doesn't seem to include CR (at least as far as we know?) the focus turned to him quite quickly, but the Spierers' recent(ish) return to CR as a focus of interest made me wonder...

*sigh*... I was happy to see Lauren's thread bumped to the top of the page again. Still, it's discouraging that we still only have these scraps of information to turn over and over again.

OldSteve
04-08-2012, 09:15 PM
Hi everyone,
This is my first post, just been reading along. I live in Blmgton and think about LS and this case all the time. I keep going back to is CR. Early on there was a report that he asked a friend the morning of June 4 if he had "seen a little blonde girl" But JW didn't report her missing until later that afternoon, had he been contacted by someone already looking for her? If not, how did he know she was missing, and doesn't this contradict his having memory loss, if she walked him home after the hit, how did he remember that she was around his place? Another thing, the cell phone has always bugged me. Did he offer to "hold" it for her, she kept getting texts that she didn't reply to, it would seem logical that he did something with her phone to keep her from texting her bf. I just keep going back to him, I don't think this is random, I think one of the POI's knows where she is. I hope with the amount of people mushroom hunting in the woods right now in Indiana that someone comes across something of use. Praying for LS, her family, and for everyone still thinking about her.

:welcome: MonroeRes Good point about the memory loss!

ellehill
04-09-2012, 12:54 AM
I really wanted to believe the POI's were innocent. But, they refused to sit down with Lauren's parents. This was so cruel that it has made them look suspicious. And, yes they do have motive. Lauren Spierer was moving on with her life and was telling a whole group of people good-bye. JEALOUSY, Lauren had some real connections. She was majoring in fashion for a reason. It was no joke. I promise she was not going to be working in the women's clothing department at Walmart. She was reaching for the top and was going to make it. Now, I can't say for sure that all the fighting and drama that went on the last 2 weeks before June 3 has anything to do with her disappearance? But, it just might.
I hope her family finds the answers very soon and that Lauren gets to go home and those responsible for this go to prison for a long time.

Curious, what fighting & drama are you aware of went on the last 2 weeks BEFORE she went missing? I haven't heard much other than she went to the Indy 500 w/o JW, but a lot of college kids do things like that.

akh
04-09-2012, 02:54 AM
Why does it seem that most here don't seem to consider JW a higher level POI? Is there something known about JW that would seemingly confirm he couldn't be involved?

Whether he had means or opportunity is in question but as for motive it doesn't take speculation to make a motive connection (jealousy). For the other known PsOI it does take speculation to come up with a theory for a motive.

shotgunhomicide
04-09-2012, 03:15 AM
Why does it seem that most here don't seem to consider JW a higher level POI? Is there something known about JW that would seemingly confirm he couldn't be involved?

It seems as if JW has escaped most of the suspicion the other POI's has (rightfully) had thrown their way. I firmly believe that he's a viable candidate that needs to be closely examined. As you said, the motive is certainly there and the means is unknowable without a body and a infallible cause of death. Currently we can't confidently say that he didn't have opportunity seeing as how we don't know LS's exact route that she would have taken after leaving JR's apartment building. Nor do we know JW's whereabouts during the window of opportunity for Lauren to be kidnapped or otherwise taken off the street without any of the numerous cameras that were running at the time. Even then, that's still assuming she left JR/CR/MB's apartment complex while she was still breathing.

I'm not saying I think he's the killer or a part of a coverup, but I still think he warrants close inspection by LE. Either way, he could probably provide LE with information about LS's encounters with her friends and enemies in the days and weeks leading up to her disappearance.

Jupiter812
04-09-2012, 11:57 AM
I think JW is under the radar for a variety of reasons. The Spierer's have never mentioned him publicly with a grain of suspicion; in fact, if anything they seem to have support for him. If my memory is correct they said he was "suffering" (?) and I know Robert Spierer said he rec'd a Father's Day greeting from him. The video produced for Lauren's Shine Concert did not mention him either, whereas the other key POI were named and mugshots of DR, CR, JR but not MB.

Of course since there is no videotape or evidence (that we know of) of Lauren with JW that night, he manages to escape suspicion. With the motley group of guys she was with that night, there is enough drama to run circles of suspicion around them.

I agree there is no reason to get him off the hook and every reason to keep him on it. As I mentioned a while ago when the Spierer's made a signifcant public comment, they said they had not heard from JW in a long time which I find that interesting. Yes, I'm sure he's being advised to have no contact, but even no holiday greeting? That's harsh.

Darcyline
04-09-2012, 04:32 PM
JW definitely missed out on a lot of the suspicion. I think there are several reasons for that-the Spierers' support of him while basically pointing fingers at the other POIs, the other POIs being much more dramatic (drug arrests, alcohol use, reputations), and JW being the one that actually started the ball rolling for her being reported missing. Of course, on the other side he technically does not have an firm alibi, he has a clearer source of motive, and at one point (I will try to find the link :( ) a local said that it was possible to walk from JR and CR's complex to JW's place and not be seen on cameras.

I feel like CR (it depends-the direction of suspicion has changed course a few times) has received the most suspicion, but oddly enough he has one of the strongest alibis on paper. By strongest I just mean cameras corroborate *supposedly* parts of the timeline and story and he has at least two other people who are corroborating as well or claiming to have interacted with Lauren AFTER CR supposedly drops out of the picture for the night.

I guess I am rambling, but it seems like there are so many puzzle pieces and some make sense, some don't, and I am frustrated because I doubt we will ever know the exact set of circumstances that led to her disappearance.

monkey222
04-10-2012, 12:17 PM
I thought CR asked someone at a nearby convenience store in the am, if anyone had seen a blonde girl. I do not recall if being a "friend" that he asked. I think CR knew there was a hard night of partying going on, and was trying to put together the pieces, possibly knowing that if she started walking home in a clouded condition, it wouldn't be the best move, on all of their parts.

AbbeyR
04-10-2012, 05:16 PM
From the link I posted above:

USA Today, 6/13/2011

Several students who saw Rossman in the period after Spierer vanished questioned the "memory loss," saying he had no bruising or redness to his face that would support the claim.

"Supposedly he had that big altercation, but he didn't look like anything happened to him," said senior Chris Malone, who saw Corey the next morning, Feb. 4.

Rossman was outside his apartment, asking Malone if he'd seen Spierer.

"What's up boys?" Malone quoted Rossman as telling him. "Did you happen to see a little blond girl?"

Malone, who hadn't seen her, said he knows Rossman and roommate Mike Beth because they played in his Fantasy Football League and would sometimes grill together.

"They like to party," he said.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/...-missing_n.htm

Barry
04-10-2012, 09:28 PM
Why does it seem that most here don't seem to consider JW a higher level POI? Is there something known about JW that would seemingly confirm he couldn't be involved?

Whether he had means or opportunity is in question but as for motive it doesn't take speculation to make a motive connection (jealousy). For the other known PsOI it does take speculation to come up with a theory for a motive.

IMO, I've seen nothing to this point that excludes him.

Darcyline
04-10-2012, 09:39 PM
CR was arrested for pot at one point. I usually hear "party" to mean harder drugs or lots of liquor in addition to just pot though. I guess it depends on the person and group though. I remember a discussion here a long time ago when people were saying that party has absolutely no drug connotation and they just meant getting together with friends. For me and my friends, party always meant getting really wasted with alcohol/drugs. I have a feeling for some of them party did mean getting very intoxicated through various means.

shotgunhomicide
04-11-2012, 02:47 AM
The "memory loss" does seem convenient, but I REALLY wish we knew how much alcohol he had consumed prior to heading back to his apartment with LS. I've personally been *that* wasted before to the point of not being able to put together concise bits of jumbled pieces of the night before together. However, he seems to put the fight as the primary cause of his amnesia, which oddly enough allows him to not be able to account for the moments leading up to getting punched. That's why I strongly suspect he remembers every darn thing that happened that night and he's just too cowardly to do the right thing.

As for JW, if he isn't on the Spierer's radar and he apparently doesn't know about the events on the night in question, why would he be told to not have any communication with the Spierers? I know lawyers are tricky sons of *****es, but that seems suspect to me if he genuinely doesn't have anything to hide. I don't know.. I just can't pretend to understand the motivations of ANY the kids involved in all of this. They act so far from what good and normal people would do that it would almost be comical if there wasn't a beautiful girl that remains missing due to their apathy and incompetence.

monkey222
04-11-2012, 02:49 PM
Thanks for info. I also recall a news report that stated that one of the guys asked someone at or outside a convenience store near their apts. So it seems that the players certainly had an inkling that the hard night of partying , at least at this point, may have lead up to a missing girl.

AbbeyR
04-11-2012, 04:40 PM
Thanks for info. I also recall a news report that stated that one of the guys asked someone at or outside a convenience store near their apts. So it seems that the players certainly had an inkling that the hard night of partying , at least at this point, may have lead up to a missing girl.

She was reported missing the afternoon of June 3rd, right?

So either, the friend in the article above meant to say the morning of June 3rd (not 4th), before she was reported missing -- but then, if their story is she had gone over to JR's and then walked home towards her apartment, why would CR wake up and start canvassing his neighbourhood for her? Wouldn't he just assume she made it home? If not, what gave him reason to worry?

If it was June 4th, then he would know she had already been reported missing. But at least from this snippet, it seems like a pretty casual question, if that was the case.

If there is another article about him asking about a little blond girl at a convenience store, that would help to clarify when CR was looking for her. I don't remember one though... if anyone does, please post!

monkey222
04-12-2012, 01:18 PM
The query at the convenience store was before she was reported missing, to the best of my recollection. The query was somewhere in the timeframe between 10am and 2pmish. This was in interviews/news reports. I recalled that it was reported that there was an altercation of some sort between JW and one of the boys at their apt where she was last seen. This was before she was reported missing. To me, this was logical for the boyfriend to go looking for her at their apts, and likewise, for the boys to inquire around their neighborhood as to a drunken girl's whereabouts

akh
04-12-2012, 02:46 PM
I would be careful in putting too much importance on discussions when the 5 north occupants started inquiring about LS. Between sloppy and bad reporting and people misremembering some things discussed months ago I doubt there's anything definitive (in the public realm) that can point to whether these reported comments were made June 3rd or June 4th.

In fact, if they were actually made June 3rd I would've expected a whole lot more discussion about them at the time and continuing on to this day. Not popping back up months later as if they were something that was missed.

Since they faded quickly at the time it tends to seem like the consensus was they were actually from June 4th. Otherwise, people would still be talking about the discrepancy as part of a continued thread from the start and more would've been made of it at the time.

...IMHO...

elmomom
04-12-2012, 07:00 PM
The query at the convenience store was before she was reported missing, to the best of my recollection. The query was somewhere in the timeframe between 10am and 2pmish. This was in interviews/news reports. I recalled that it was reported that there was an altercation of some sort between JW and one of the boys at their apt where she was last seen. This was before she was reported missing. To me, this was logical for the boyfriend to go looking for her at their apts, and likewise, for the boys to inquire around their neighborhood as to a drunken girl's whereabouts

The confrontation was said to be JW and his father confronting CR. This never made it to MSM, but that was what was the rumor on other unverified sites. That being the case, it most certainly happened AFTER LS was reported missing as JW's father was already in town.

PlainJaneDoe
04-12-2012, 07:48 PM
Just noticed that there are 2 guests reading here with me. Please consider joining us. :wave:

concernedmother
04-12-2012, 09:31 PM
Never even hear about this case any more and Im just a couple hrs from there if even that far and alot of kids from this area go to Bloomington to school.Would love to know if much is ever said on the news there.

Jupiter812
04-13-2012, 08:58 AM
The query at the convenience store was before she was reported missing, to the best of my recollection. The query was somewhere in the timeframe between 10am and 2pmish. This was in interviews/news reports. I recalled that it was reported that there was an altercation of some sort between JW and one of the boys at their apt where she was last seen. This was before she was reported missing. To me, this was logical for the boyfriend to go looking for her at their apts, and likewise, for the boys to inquire around their neighborhood as to a drunken girl's whereabouts

I think what you're calling the "convenience store" is actually the CVS. There are no convenience stores (e.g., 7-11 or Big Foot) in his neighborhood. It makes sense that it was June 3, not the 4th. He probably went to CVS to get a hair of the dog, some pain killers, and fill a script for anxiety. :what:

Also, surely someone called him to ask Lauren's whereabouts before she was officially reported missing. Your timeframe approximates that and then it makes sense that he would ask neighbors if they saw her that same day of June 3.

Jupiter812
04-13-2012, 02:10 PM
The query at the convenience store was before she was reported missing, to the best of my recollection. The query was somewhere in the timeframe between 10am and 2pmish. This was in interviews/news reports. I recalled that it was reported that there was an altercation of some sort between JW and one of the boys at their apt where she was last seen. This was before she was reported missing. To me, this was logical for the boyfriend to go looking for her at their apts, and likewise, for the boys to inquire around their neighborhood as to a drunken girl's whereabouts

I recall hearing about a confrontation that morning too but not in MSM. I didn't search but for a minute and found a comment about it on blog http://legalpublication.blogspot.com/2011/06/lauren-spierer-disappearance-puzzles.html

There certainly was reason enough for more than one altercation to occur at 5 North after what happened that night, that's for sure!

Jupiter812
04-13-2012, 02:29 PM
If there is another article about him asking about a little blond girl at a convenience store, that would help to clarify when CR was looking for her. I don't remember one though... if anyone does, please post!

I have always remembered the CVS account because of how the friend describes the relationship between CR and MB. For me, it is meaningful because it puts CR as the alpha male in the relationship and MB as someone who might do something special for him.

Though it doesn't specifically say the asked about a "little blonde girl" I think it's safe to say that it was the jest of the discussion. This report was in the IDS and LoHud News, possibly Herald Times, as well other sources. It's not archived on their sites, but here is an excerpt ( from Victim's Heartland online):

"A friend of Rossman's told The Journal News on Friday that Rossman looked groggy but OK several hours afterward and was aware that Spierer was missing. The friend, a male Indiana University student who lives in Spierer's building, said he ran into Rossman at a CVS pharmacy the afternoon of June 3 and saw no redness or bruising on his face.

He said Rossman was with Beth and told him that Spierer had been in their apartment early that morning.

The friend spoke on the condition his name not be used because he did not want to anger Rossman and did not want police to know he was speaking about the case with a reporter.

He said Rossman recalled having a lot to drink the previous night and said he went home and passed out. Beth told the friend he put Rossman to bed and that Spierer wanted to leave. Beth told the friend he watched her walk out the door and down the street on her way home, the friend said.

According to the friend, Beth and Rossman are not just roommates, but also close friends; he described Rossman as "cool and sometimes cocky" and Beth as his slightly younger buddy who looked up to Rossman."

monkey222
04-13-2012, 07:54 PM
Thanks Jupiter,

That article that you found re: CVS account is definitely a new, news account than the news account that I recall. Perhaps it was a video interview that I saw. I actually thought it was before she was reported missing. I just attributed the query to hungover students trying to put the pieces together from a foggy night.

bessie
04-14-2012, 02:15 AM
I have always remembered the CVS account because of how the friend describes the relationship between CR and MB. For me, it is meaningful because it puts CR as the alpha male in the relationship and MB as someone who might do something special for him.

Though it doesn't specifically say the asked about a "little blonde girl" I think it's safe to say that it was the jest of the discussion. This report was in the IDS and LoHud News, possibly Herald Times, as well other sources. It's not archived on their sites, but here is an excerpt ( from Victim's Heartland online):

"A friend of Rossman's told The Journal News on Friday that Rossman looked groggy but OK several hours afterward and was aware that Spierer was missing. The friend, a male Indiana University student who lives in Spierer's building, said he ran into Rossman at a CVS pharmacy the afternoon of June 3 and saw no redness or bruising on his face.

He said Rossman was with Beth and told him that Spierer had been in their apartment early that morning.

The friend spoke on the condition his name not be used because he did not want to anger Rossman and did not want police to know he was speaking about the case with a reporter.

He said Rossman recalled having a lot to drink the previous night and said he went home and passed out. Beth told the friend he put Rossman to bed and that Spierer wanted to leave. Beth told the friend he watched her walk out the door and down the street on her way home, the friend said.

According to the friend, Beth and Rossman are not just roommates, but also close friends; he described Rossman as "cool and sometimes cocky" and Beth as his slightly younger buddy who looked up to Rossman."
I remember that well, Jupiter. But, the "little blonde girl" query was a separate incident. Note the huge discrepancy in the date.

"Supposedly he had that big altercation, but he didn't look like anything happened to him," said senior Chris Malone, who saw Corey the next morning, Feb. 4.
http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2011-06-12-lauren-spierer-missin (http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2011-06-12-lauren-spierer-missing_n.htm)g_n.htm (http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2011-06-12-lauren-spierer-missing_n.htm)

**See snips of the articles at post #217 here

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=7444401&highlight=malone#post7444401

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=6757297&highlight=malone#post6757297

We also discussed it in this thread beginning at post #455 (06/12/2011, 2:59 pm).
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=6663993&highlight=malone#post6663993


If you find my post #459 you'll see that the discrepancy about the date struck me immediately. lol

Don't feel alone, Monkey222, because the whole issue had many of us confused. :)

Jupiter812
04-14-2012, 11:49 PM
I remember that well, Jupiter. But, the "little blonde girl" query was a separate incident. Note the huge discrepancy in the date.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2011-06-12-lauren-spierer-missin (http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2011-06-12-lauren-spierer-missing_n.htm)g_n.htm (http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2011-06-12-lauren-spierer-missing_n.htm)

**See snips of the articles at post #217 here

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=7444401&highlight=malone#post7444401

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=6757297&highlight=malone#post6757297

We also discussed it in this thread beginning at post #455 (06/12/2011, 2:59 pm).
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=6663993&highlight=malone#post6663993


If you find my post #459 you'll see that the discrepancy about the date struck me immediately. lol

Don't feel alone, Monkey222, because the whole issue had many of us confused. :)

Yes, I shared the CVS because Abby was curious when CR started looking for her. According to this article he knew she was missing the day of June 3, so I figure this is when he started looking.

bessie
04-15-2012, 01:56 AM
Yes, I shared the CVS because Abby was curious when CR started looking for her. According to this article he knew she was missing the day of June 3, so I figure this is when he started looking.
That's right. The CVS encounter clearly took place the afternoon of June 3rd. The unnamed person talks about CR and MB, and says MB looks up to CR, or whatever. No problem with that article. By the afternoon of the 3rd many people were looking for LS. So CR could have found out when the other friends did.

It's the timing of the other incident -- "have you seen a little blonde girl?" -- that isn't clear.

"Supposedly he had that big altercation, but he didn't look like anything happened to him," said senior Chris Malone, who saw Corey the next morning, Feb. 4

Rossman was outside his apartment, asking Malone if he'd seen Spierer.


"What's up boys?" Malone quoted Rossman as telling him. "Did you happen to see a little blond girl?"http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2011-06-12-lauren-spierer-missing_n.htm

The "next morning" following the "big altercation" would have been June 3rd. If everyone is telling the truth, CR wouldn't have known LS was missing at that point. As Abbey said, why would CR wake up and start canvassing the neighborhood before the word went out that LS was missing?

Since the month was so obviously incorrect, it leaves doubt about the day. Was the 4 supposed to be a 3? The article was eventually updated to read June 3, but the seed of doubt had already been planted. If June 4 is correct, then the "next morning" is an error because the morning after the altercation would have been June 3. Even though technically, the altercation occurred after midnight on June 3, the average reader would still consider the hours between sunrise and noon as "the next morning".

Hope that makes sense. :)

Jupiter812
04-15-2012, 08:30 AM
That's right. The CVS encounter clearly took place the afternoon of June 3rd. The unnamed person talks about CR and MB, and says MB looks up to CR, or whatever. No problem with that article. By the afternoon of the 3rd many people were looking for LS. So CR could have found out when the other friends did.

It's the timing of the other incident -- "have you seen a little blonde girl?" -- that isn't clear.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2011-06-12-lauren-spierer-missing_n.htm

The "next morning" following the "big altercation" would have been June 3rd. If everyone is telling the truth, CR wouldn't have known LS was missing at that point. As Abbey said, why would CR wake up and start canvassing the neighborhood before the word went out that LS was missing?

Since the month was so obviously incorrect, it leaves doubt about the day. Was the 4 supposed to be a 3? The article was eventually updated to read June 3, but the seed of doubt had already been planted. If June 4 is correct, then the "next morning" is an error because the morning after the altercation would have been June 3. Even though technically, the altercation occurred after midnight on June 3, the average reader would still consider the hours between sunrise and noon as "the next morning".

Hope that makes sense. :)

Thanks, Bessie! Now it (the doubt) makes sense. Interesting! But there is yet another huge error in that USA article which leads me to believe the 4th is really the 3rd because of this:

"Qualters said investigators have received new surveillance video from at least one downtown Bloomington business, and he hopes for more in pinning down Spierer's whereabouts around the time of her disappearance early June 4."

Couple of thoughts...I think the definition of "morning" is relative. Students who party, sleep late, and wake up at 1:00 p.m. may consider that "morning" time, Malone included.

Even if it was 11 or 11:30 a.m. I can't imagine that JW had not already started calling around by that hour. (Of course one wonders if passed out partiers would answer their phone that early.)

One would think if Malone saw CR on the 4th Malone would say he saw him asking about the little blonde girl "the next day."

Lastly, if CR already knew she was missing because of his own involvement, that's pretty darn brazen of him to be out on the street pretending to be looking for her. Ugh

PlainJaneDoe
04-16-2012, 08:53 PM
:candle: for Lauren

Jacobite
04-18-2012, 11:49 AM
Time to bump Lauren back to the top. I see a PI is stating that BPD thinks Lauren was kidnapped. If this is so? There is hope of getting her back alive. http://www.billwarnerpi.com/2012/04/sex-offenders-bloomington-police-say.html However, I find the behavior of the POIs most strange if this is an abduction. Why get lawyers and not help find Lauren? Where are their positive comments for Lauren? Where are her friends? She had a large circle of friends.
But only a few come to defend her name publicly.

OldSteve
04-18-2012, 12:21 PM
Time to bump Lauren back to the top. I see a PI is stating that BPD thinks Lauren was kidnapped. If this is so? There is hope of getting her back alive. http://www.billwarnerpi.com/2012/04/sex-offenders-bloomington-police-say.html However, I find the behavior of the POIs most strange if this is an abduction. Why get lawyers and not help find Lauren? Where are their positive comments for Lauren? Where are her friends? She had a large circle of friends.
But only a few come to defend her name publicly.

When I saw this I thought it was from the PI(s) working for the family, but I don't think this PI is working for the family, and is thus just expressing an opinion..

Mophebius
04-18-2012, 10:51 PM
I dont mean to discredit this Bill Warner character, but having myself read some of his blogging, it's my opinion that he is a space-case type who makes theories based in generalities and speaks very sensationally. Bottom line is this BLOGGER who evidently claims to be a Private investigator is just trolling for viewership on his respective blog. I significantly doubt that Bill Warner has even had contact with BPD about this case.

anthropos
04-19-2012, 12:45 AM
hi all. first time commenter, long time (sporadic) lurker.

i am an indiana native, and just graduated from iu bloomington in 2010. i'm super interested in this case given my close connection to bloomington.

i've read and re-read so much about this case that i've recently wondered if the following is probable. given that the spierers have recently put a lot of pressure on CR and informally cleared JR, i wonder if LS left JR's house in a reasonable state of mind, but realized she didn't have her keys and returned to CR's so she could get back into her apartment. i've always been bothered about LS leaving if she didn't have anything with her-- where the heck was she planning on going? is it a possibility that she did in fact leave, and then turned around and headed towards CR's as she was en route to her apartment?

secondly, i know MB had a paper due that day. part of me wonders if he would have left to go to the library to finish it after all the commotion, or even left briefly to print it off. the IUB library is open 24/7, and this is common. i don't want to sound like a conspiracy theorist (especially on my first post), but it seems possible that he's covering up where he might have been so as not to unintentionally place any blame on CR by showing he had an open window.

any thoughts on this scenario?

sammi89
04-19-2012, 03:16 AM
Hi, I've only posted a few times but check up often. Sad to see nothing new has really been happening.

I think that is plausible and would explain a lot of the recent pressure back on CR. I know girls on my campus that get so wasted that they have to have someone else read their texts to them and often ask others to hold onto their things if they do not have pockets or a purse. I wouldn't be surprised if LS had asked CR to hold onto them earlier in the night and returned to get them.

Another scenario: what if CR had supplied her with something or put something into her drink? Maybe he really did pass out, and something happened with MB? He was certainly lucid enough to think straight and CR would have reason to assist/keep quiet. Although, I still think CR's lawyering up and choice of lawyer is interesting, especially since most attention was not on him initially.

I really would be shocked if she really did leave JR's and did not return to CR's at some point.

Jupiter812
04-19-2012, 08:49 AM
I dont mean to discredit this Bill Warner character, but having myself read some of his blogging, it's my opinion that he is a space-case type who makes theories based in generalities and speaks very sensationally. Bottom line is this BLOGGER who evidently claims to be a Private investigator is just trolling for viewership on his respective blog. I significantly doubt that Bill Warner has even had contact with BPD about this case.

My sentiments exactly.

Jupiter812
04-19-2012, 08:55 AM
Welcome, Anthropos! It's certainly possible that Lauren returned to CR's apartment. That's an interesting thought--one I don't recall any discussion here on WS.

As for MB going to the library in the middle of the night, I doubt it. The 5 North apartments have multiple floors with a bedroom on each floor so it offers privacy. If he did go to the library there would be a cyber trail of it and LE would know.

Sammi, very good input about how gals need assistance when they become "wasted."

Thanks to both of you and please post more often!

AbbeyR
04-19-2012, 09:08 AM
Welcome Anthropos and Sammi!

given that the spierers have recently put a lot of pressure on CR and informally cleared JR,

(Respectfully snipped and BBM) They did? When?

I thought there was some controversy a while back where they 'informally cleared JW' and LE replied that they don't actually have the power to clear anyone... I may have missed something though...

AbbeyR
04-19-2012, 12:26 PM
This is what I was thinking of: http://www.heraldtimesonline.com/stories/2012/01/20/news.speierers-parents-no-persons-of-interest-in-disappearance-case-cleared.sto


The parents of missing Indiana University student Lauren Spierer told The Herald-Times Friday they are in no position of authority to clear or rule out persons of interest in their daughter’s missing persons case, despite another news report’s claims....

The Spierers told The Herald-Times Friday they cannot “clear” persons of interest from their daughter’s case, as they are not police officers or investigators. Charlene Spierer said the couple voiced their opinion in the Fox interview. “The police have never listed, given a list of people of interest ... we have no right to clear anybody.”...

Robert Spierer interjected: “We didn’t, we didn’t clear anybody.” ...
“No one’s cleared. It’s still an active case,”

akh
04-19-2012, 01:18 PM
Welcome Anthropos and Sammi!



(Respectfully snipped and BBM) They did? When?

I thought there was some controversy a while back where they 'informally cleared JW' and LE replied that they don't actually have the power to clear anyone... I may have missed something though...



I believe I know what is being talked about and it's most likely from some more sloppy reporting. The parents were interviewed and the reporter either directly or indirectly implied that the parents were comfortable with JR's story. But reading closely, they never said that (as quoted) and it was probably the reporter misinterpreting the flow of the interview and interjecting his/her own thoughts on that.

The parents seemed to have some venom toward CR in the interview and the reporter seemed to run with that angle. IIRC the parents confirmed JR had met with them and I think that caused the reporter to think JR was now off their list. Something that probably could've been cleared up with a question or two "Do you still think JR should be a high level POI? ...As high as CR?"... But instead the reporter assumed an answer and let that opinion flow into the reporting... IMHO...

Darcyline
04-19-2012, 01:44 PM
I had a brief moment of excitement when I thought Lauren left JR's and went straight back to CR's. But, JR clearly says he saw her walking at least a block away heading back to her home. However, going one step further there is absolutely nothing stopping her from turning around and walking that block back once figuring out she didn't have her keys. The biggest obstacle there is MB who I still cannot figure out why he would cover for CR. I guess stranger things have happened though especially if CR was the alpha male friend.

I think her parents direct most of their venom and suspicion toward CR for various reasons-he was the most unfamiliar to them, was a strange man who did (or did not do) several things that could have changed the entire course of the night for Lauren, and has the incredibly suspicious "I have amnesia" story to cap it all off. Understandable, but I still think there is a chance CR is a convenient choice who may be lying about some stuff, but isn't ultimately the culprit. I still think his "amnesia" could be he got insanely wasted and really doesn't remember most of the night rather than him flat out lying about it.

If it was CR can you imagine his relief when JR basically admitted to seeing her last and seeing her walk away and then no witnesses have come forward to place her back with him? Some sort of evil is on his side if it worked out that way for him. Or just insane "good luck" (for him obviously).

Jacobite
04-19-2012, 06:11 PM
I don't think Corey Rossman is our best candidate for the dirty deed. After all, I hear he's never changed a tire in his life. Not too good at fighting either. I doubt Lauren appreciated the Indiana hillbilly violence that night. Well bred girls like her aren't used to seeing people behaving like beasts.
So, now am I to believe that a guy who just got his clock cleaned did this crime?
No, but he should have done a much better job watching out for and protecting her that night. And, under the law, Lauren could not give consent for him to take her home with him in her condition. Loss of love and affection is the name of a lawsuit that could force him to talk. But, I don't think he did it. His home and car were searched with dogs.

anthropos
04-19-2012, 10:04 PM
thanks for the warm welcome, everyone.

yes, i was referring to the article about more pressure being put on CR. i can't remember where i read it, but it sounded like JR had talked to the spierers and they seemed more comfortable with his story (but that was AFTER a lot of lack of cooperation). i hope i'm not misremembering this, it has been a while since i read the article. granted, i'm paraphrasing and probably oversimplifying, but that's the jist i got. anyone have the link to the article?

about MB going to the library-- i agree it was a bit of a longshot. still, i don't think any reports have recounted his actions that night, aside from putting CR to bed and working on his paper. the gap in the timeline that goes beyond that seems like quite a crucial piece of information. why wouldn't he want to clear his own name by providing that info? interesting.

i don't understand how LS wouldn't catch the fact that she didn't have her keys. she realized she didn't have her phone, since she used JR's (or so he says--btw, did he ever say who she was calling and why?). maybe she did realize it, and tried to recount the places where her keys could be and attempted to retrace her steps as she left? so many questions left unanswered (and perhaps unasked?).

anyways, just thinking out loud here. i'm glad this has started a new conversational perspective.

PlainJaneDoe
04-19-2012, 10:37 PM
thanks for the warm welcome, everyone.

yes, i was referring to the article about more pressure being put on CR. i can't remember where i read it, but it sounded like JR had talked to the spierers and they seemed more comfortable with his story (but that was AFTER a lot of lack of cooperation). i hope i'm not misremembering this, it has been a while since i read the article. granted, i'm paraphrasing and probably oversimplifying, but that's the jist i got. anyone have the link to the article?

about MB going to the library-- i agree it was a bit of a longshot. still, i don't think any reports have recounted his actions that night, aside from putting CR to bed and working on his paper. the gap in the timeline that goes beyond that seems like quite a crucial piece of information. why wouldn't he want to clear his own name by providing that info? interesting.

i don't understand how LS wouldn't catch the fact that she didn't have her keys. she realized she didn't have her phone, since she used JR's (or so he says--btw, did he ever say who she was calling and why?). maybe she did realize it, and tried to recount the places where her keys could be and attempted to retrace her steps as she left? so many questions left unanswered (and perhaps unasked?).

anyways, just thinking out loud here. i'm glad this has started a new conversational perspective.

Agreed. And it seems IMO like it has been many months since we got actual news of Lauren's case.

akh
04-19-2012, 10:48 PM
Loss of love and affection is the name of a lawsuit that could force him to talk.

And absolutely no known evidence that would connect him with that crime/accusation, an alibi witness that has not been impeached, and another person entirely who claims to have seen her after CR last seen her are some of the things that would get the lawsuit dismissed and an admonishment from the judge.

If there was anything along those lines available for a civil lawsuit IMHO LE would've been using them as leverage in some type of criminal proceedings.

A civil lawsuit with no basis could actually backfire on some fronts, let alone squander and focus resources in a fruitless direction with nothing but a deadend at the end of the road.

Jacobite
04-20-2012, 09:25 AM
And absolutely no known evidence that would connect him with that crime/accusation, an alibi witness that has not been impeached, and another person entirely who claims to have seen her after CR last seen her are some of the things that would get the lawsuit dismissed and an admonishment from the judge.

If there was anything along those lines available for a civil lawsuit IMHO LE would've been using them as leverage in some type of criminal proceedings.

A civil lawsuit with no basis could actually backfire on some fronts, let alone squander and focus resources in a fruitless direction with nothing but a deadend at the end of the road.

Lauren's family wants Corey to speak to them and this would be a means to accomplish that. Depositions are taken before a judge rules on anything.
I don't think CR is the bad guy. But, perhaps he can help them catch the
criminals by providing information.

imkeylime
04-20-2012, 10:37 AM
hi all. first time commenter, long time (sporadic) lurker.

i am an indiana native, and just graduated from iu bloomington in 2010. i'm super interested in this case given my close connection to bloomington.

i've read and re-read so much about this case that i've recently wondered if the following is probable. given that the spierers have recently put a lot of pressure on CR and informally cleared JR, i wonder if LS left JR's house in a reasonable state of mind, but realized she didn't have her keys and returned to CR's so she could get back into her apartment. i've always been bothered about LS leaving if she didn't have anything with her-- where the heck was she planning on going? is it a possibility that she did in fact leave, and then turned around and headed towards CR's as she was en route to her apartment?

secondly, i know MB had a paper due that day. part of me wonders if he would have left to go to the library to finish it after all the commotion, or even left briefly to print it off. the IUB library is open 24/7, and this is common. i don't want to sound like a conspiracy theorist (especially on my first post), but it seems possible that he's covering up where he might have been so as not to unintentionally place any blame on CR by showing he had an open window.

any thoughts on this scenario?

Welcome, anthropos! I do wonder whether JR actually saw LS leave, but then she turned around and returned to 5 North after the fact. Maybe to find her keys or maybe because she decided to crash there after all. While I don't get why she went with him to 5 North in the first place, she might have even decided to go and check on CR. That opens up different scenarios ... her going back to CR/MB's place, being intercepted by someone else along the way, or being taken by someone else in the building even.

IMO, MB's "paper alibi" doesn't seem that solid. Who knows how far along he was on the paper, to begin with. CR/MB could be tag-teaming here, based on that ... MB says CR crashed; CR doesn't see MB because he did so.

That said, IDK how CR/MB could have disposed of LS in the given timeframe, especially if CR was indeed wasted or injured.

imkeylime
04-20-2012, 10:50 AM
Hi, I've only posted a few times but check up often. Sad to see nothing new has really been happening.

I think that is plausible and would explain a lot of the recent pressure back on CR. I know girls on my campus that get so wasted that they have to have someone else read their texts to them and often ask others to hold onto their things if they do not have pockets or a purse. I wouldn't be surprised if LS had asked CR to hold onto them earlier in the night and returned to get them.

Another scenario: what if CR had supplied her with something or put something into her drink? Maybe he really did pass out, and something happened with MB? He was certainly lucid enough to think straight and CR would have reason to assist/keep quiet. Although, I still think CR's lawyering up and choice of lawyer is interesting, especially since most attention was not on him initially.

I really would be shocked if she really did leave JR's and did not return to CR's at some point.

One thing that has always bothered me about JR's story is why JR would let LS call DR from his phone, allegedly looking for her own, and then let her leave without lending her his phone. Actually, what difference would it have made it DR had her phone? She would have still had to walk alone to get it. She supposedly had a "friendship" with JR ... and I just don't get why he'd let her leave so defenseless. I guess that's the difference between a friend who has your back and one who doesn't.

It would make more sense that she called DR because she didn't have her keys, thinking he could let her in. And then maybe because she couldn't reach him, she backtracked her steps to find her keys? Although I'm still more inclined to think that JR made the call ...

anthropos
04-20-2012, 12:16 PM
One thing that has always bothered me about JR's story is why JR would let LS call DR from his phone, allegedly looking for her own, and then let her leave without lending her his phone. Actually, what difference would it have made it DR had her phone? She would have still had to walk alone to get it. She supposedly had a "friendship" with JR ... and I just don't get why he'd let her leave so defenseless. I guess that's the difference between a friend who has your back and one who doesn't.

It would make more sense that she called DR because she didn't have her keys, thinking he could let her in. And then maybe because she couldn't reach him, she backtracked her steps to find her keys? Although I'm still more inclined to think that JR made the call ...

i agree about calling DR about keys or getting inside, rather than her phone. if she was coherent enough to realize she had neither, she probably would have remembered texting JW while at the bar, thus ruling out leaving her phone at DR's. I question whether security was actually there at night-- after all, security never intervened with the initial altercation at smallwood, nor did they approach CR and LS stumbling in and out of the building. i can't remember what i've read about how people can access smallwood after hours without a key. but if she called DR to get in, i would also think she would call HT if DR didn't answer. if JR knew HT well enough, i would suspect he would have her phone number, but this may not be the case. maybe he didn't have it.

again, lots of unanswered questions. having even a few answers could help piece the puzzle together. i suspect the spierers and LE know more than we do, though.

Jacobite
04-20-2012, 01:00 PM
i agree about calling DR about keys or getting inside, rather than her phone. if she was coherent enough to realize she had neither, she probably would have remembered texting JW while at the bar, thus ruling out leaving her phone at DR's. I question whether security was actually there at night-- after all, security never intervened with the initial altercation at smallwood, nor did they approach CR and LS stumbling in and out of the building. i can't remember what i've read about how people can access smallwood after hours without a key. but if she called DR to get in, i would also think she would call HT if DR didn't answer. if JR knew HT well enough, i would suspect he would have her phone number, but this may not be the case. maybe he didn't have it.

again, lots of unanswered questions. having even a few answers could help piece the puzzle together. i suspect the spierers and LE know more than we do, though.

Lauren last used her cell at 12:16 AM. She was with Hadar and David and
was still at Smallwood. The account of her being alone at Sports is not true either. She was with Corey.

Jacobite
04-20-2012, 01:18 PM
You would think security would be on duty at night because that's when you need them most. But, there are so many cameras. It is difficult for one guy to monitor all at once. Some motion detectors could have alerted one to the fight.
Or, was security closed down?

imkeylime
04-22-2012, 09:38 AM
Reading about new developments in the Etan Patz case reminds me of the construction going on by 5 North last summer. I grapple with how LS could have left Bloomington the morning of June 3 with a POI. I wonder if there's any possibility she was hid in a construction zone and somehow moved later? Wasn't there other construction going on in town during that time as well? If so, what type of equipment was around? Cement mixers? Steel drums? Anything?

(http://www.cnn.com/2012/04/22/justice/new-york-patz-probe/index.html?hpt=hp_t1)

imkeylime
04-22-2012, 09:47 AM
i agree about calling DR about keys or getting inside, rather than her phone. if she was coherent enough to realize she had neither, she probably would have remembered texting JW while at the bar, thus ruling out leaving her phone at DR's. I question whether security was actually there at night-- after all, security never intervened with the initial altercation at smallwood, nor did they approach CR and LS stumbling in and out of the building. i can't remember what i've read about how people can access smallwood after hours without a key. but if she called DR to get in, i would also think she would call HT if DR didn't answer. if JR knew HT well enough, i would suspect he would have her phone number, but this may not be the case. maybe he didn't have it.

again, lots of unanswered questions. having even a few answers could help piece the puzzle together. i suspect the spierers and LE know more than we do, though.

I've always thought that JR made the call, perhaps to tell DR that LS was leaving or something. I've also wondered if she could have left 5 North earlier than reported, with intentions of coming back for some reason, and when she didn't, JR called DR.

I agree that security didn't seem so resourceful that night. Was a security guard supposed to be there but was absent for a time, i.e., on an early coffee/donut run? I'm sure that was thoroughly checked out, though ...

IMO, LS could have turned around to look for her keys/wristlet on the way back to SW. OTOH, we really don't know if she habitually lost things or left them behind. I've noticed that one of my daughter's friends repeatedly does this, under no special circumstances.

AbbeyR
04-22-2012, 10:38 PM
I've always thought that JR made the call, perhaps to tell DR that LS was leaving or something. I've also wondered if she could have left 5 North earlier than reported, with intentions of coming back for some reason, and when she didn't, JR called DR.

I've wondered this too.

This reminded me of my very first reaction to those early rumors about possible overdose and unnamed drug dealers... My earliest thoughts about what happened, and the phone call to DR were:

1) Lauren was in some kind of distress at this point. They knew she had either gotten drugs/ done drugs with DR earlier in the night, and called him to find out what she had done, or what to do... (Or possibly Lauren herself called, for the same reason)

2) Lauren had left with the intention of coming back, and when she didn't, they called him to see if he knew what happened or if she had ended up back at Smallwood. One thing that comes to mind, given the rumors, is meeting someone to pick up drugs. In my experience at parties in university, drug dealers did not come and drop off the party supplies at the door. Someone would have to go meet them, or drive around the block with them to make the exchange. Girls often did this, even by themselves. (Seems crazy now, but it was assumed at the time that the person was someone that people knew so it was okay) I wondered, early on, if it was possible that Lauren went to meet someone in that parking lot/ alley and never made it back... But then, it seems that if something like that happened, there would have been phone records leading to someone else, and possibly more cooperation from the POI. It also assumes she was in the condition to not only leave by herself but that she wanted to continue partying, which seems doubtful based on the other evidence. And that doubt brings me right back to questioning the stories of the POI... more thinking in circles.

(I have to add that I don't really like speculating about drugs because I see that her parents have been upset by these rumors and that they have caused some negative backlash against Lauren. At the same time, I've always felt that the early rumors were detailed enough and consistent enough that there may be at least a grain of truth in there somewhere... )

Jupiter812
04-23-2012, 05:21 PM
Charlene Spierer believes her daughter is no longer alive

http://www.lohud.com/article/20120423/NEWS/304230114/Lauren-Spierer-case-Charlene-Spierer-believes-her-daughter-no-longer-alive

Excerpt:

Some of the people she hung out with that night remain persons of interest in the ongoing criminal investigation, and the young woman’s parents continue to question their truthfulness — even after their private investigator interviewed a couple of them.

“I feel if she never met Corey Rossman, she’d be alive today,” Robert Spierer said of one of the students she was with that night. I believe that too.

Jupiter812
04-23-2012, 05:29 PM
Reading about new developments in the Etan Patz case reminds me of the construction going on by 5 North last summer. I grapple with how LS could have left Bloomington the morning of June 3 with a POI. I wonder if there's any possibility she was hid in a construction zone and somehow moved later? Wasn't there other construction going on in town during that time as well? If so, what type of equipment was around? Cement mixers? Steel drums? Anything?

(http://www.cnn.com/2012/04/22/justice/new-york-patz-probe/index.html?hpt=hp_t1)

Keylime, this is no exaggeration: I have lived here a long time and I have never seen the amount of heavy construction in Bloomington as there was last summer: Bypass highway around Btown, city streets, huge university buildings, and then all the various apartment projects. Just mindboggling. Deep ditches, fallen trees, bulldozers and other heavy machinery...

Friday night I drove home via the new bypass for the first time. Nicely paved and quiet, streamlined traffic and I shuddered at the thought.

imkeylime
04-23-2012, 06:34 PM
Keylime, this is no exaggeration: I have lived here a long time and I have never seen the amount of heavy construction in Bloomington as there was last summer: Bypass highway around Btown, city streets, huge university buildings, and then all the various apartment projects. Just mindboggling. Deep ditches, fallen trees, bulldozers and other heavy machinery...

Friday night I drove home via the new bypass for the first time. Nicely paved and quiet, streamlined traffic and I shuddered at the thought.

That spooks me, Jupiter! I always wonder about such places ... and given there were so many at the time, something could have been overlooked.

Last summer, I drove around West Bloomfield, MI (JR and DR's stomping ground). There was also a lot of construction going on there. Having never been to Bloomington, IDK how the lay of the land compares. But I did see chaotic areas that I could imagine a body lost in. That spooked me, too, though I realize it's a long shot.

I guess we take LS with us, in some respects ...

Jacobite
04-23-2012, 06:51 PM
I'd bet Lauren Spierer is not in Bloomington. She will be found though and the bad boys will face justice. That's a promise.

Jupiter812
04-23-2012, 07:41 PM
That spooks me, Jupiter! I always wonder about such places ... and given there were so many at the time, something could have been overlooked.

Last summer, I drove around West Bloomfield, MI (JR and DR's stomping ground). There was also a lot of construction going on there. Having never been to Bloomington, IDK how the lay of the land compares. But I did see chaotic areas that I could imagine a body lost in. That spooked me, too, though I realize it's a long shot.

I guess we take LS with us, in some respects ...

I remember when you made that trip. That we take her with us...that's a good way of putting it. I still do double takes when I'm in a woodsy, natural area...if I see an object that isn't supposed to be there.

That said, I agree with Jacobite. I think it's more likely that she's not in this area.

Jupiter812
04-23-2012, 11:28 PM
A new article on www.fox59.com. This is the local channel. Rob says there are new leads but still wants boys to talk.

Rob Spierer: "I hope their failures haunt them for the rest of their lives."

bessie
04-23-2012, 11:51 PM
I'm pretty sure all of us here share Mr. Spierer's sentiments:

Rob Spierer responded, "I hope that they think about Lauren everyday like we do and I hope that they think about how their failure to act on her behalf had an impact on the circumstances of today. Whether it was a failure to call 911, whether it was a failure to take her to the hospital, whether it was a failure to walk her home, they're all failures.emphasis added by me


http://www.fox59.com/news/wxin-lauren-spierers-parents-call-out-those-who-last-saw-her-20120423,0,396300.column

Mergatroid
04-24-2012, 12:18 AM
I just read Jupiter's post from today(3:21pm)...that's the first time I recall ever reading that JR met up with LS and CR at Kilroys. Makes me wonder if CR and JR were in on something together... This could explain why they might have created a story that gets them both off the hook.

Lovejac
04-24-2012, 12:23 AM
Charlene Spierer believes her daughter is no longer alive

http://www.lohud.com/article/20120423/NEWS/304230114/Lauren-Spierer-case-Charlene-Spierer-believes-her-daughter-no-longer-alive

Excerpt:

Some of the people she hung out with that night remain persons of interest in the ongoing criminal investigation, and the young woman’s parents continue to question their truthfulness — even after their private investigator interviewed a couple of them.

“I feel if she never met Corey Rossman, she’d be alive today,” Robert Spierer said of one of the students she was with that night. I believe that too.

Wow, what a powerful article.

Jupiter812
04-24-2012, 08:39 AM
I just read Jupiter's post from today(3:21pm)...that's the first time I recall ever reading that JR met up with LS and CR at Kilroys. Makes me wonder if CR and JR were in on something together... This could explain why they might have created a story that gets them both off the hook.

Thank you for calling that out. That was not in the piece when I read it originally. I see it was updated late last night; the story also now includes this:

Rossman said he was punched so hard he lost memory of the night, though video surveillance shows he helped her out of her building.

This is the first time I've heard of video evidence. All this time the report was that a "friend" helped her out. No name was given.

Jacobite
04-24-2012, 09:52 AM
I'm thinking we may be calling checkmate on the bad boy real soon. Maybe we did not
look in the right place because we couldn't believe anyone could make such a stupid move.

AbbeyR
04-24-2012, 12:36 PM
I just read Jupiter's post from today(3:21pm)...that's the first time I recall ever reading that JR met up with LS and CR at Kilroys. Makes me wonder if CR and JR were in on something together... This could explain why they might have created a story that gets them both off the hook.

You're right! That changes the story quite a bit, IMO.

It also makes me think back to the fact that the 'unofficial' account from JR's roommate's friend (on the Phish board) was that they all went back to JR's after Kilroys. Hmmm.

AbbeyR
04-24-2012, 12:39 PM
Rossman said he was punched so hard he lost memory of the night, though video surveillance shows he helped her out of her building.

This is the first time I've heard of video evidence. All this time the report was that a "friend" helped her out. No name was given.

Wouldn't this be the video that was described earlier of Lauren stumbling out of the elevator and CR helping her up and out of the building? This story was the one that challenged CR's first account that LS was helping him.

monkey222
04-24-2012, 12:42 PM
Thank you for calling that out. That was not in the piece when I read it originally. I see it was updated late last night; the story also now includes this:

Rossman said he was punched so hard he lost memory of the night, though video surveillance shows he helped her out of her building.

This is the first time I've heard of video evidence. All this time the report was that a "friend" helped her out. No name was given.


Can someone clarify.."what building"...Kilroys? North? Smallwood? confused. Thx,

imkeylime
04-24-2012, 12:52 PM
Can someone clarify.."what building"...Kilroys? North? Smallwood? confused. Thx,

Smallwood ... after the fight. It was initially reported that LS helped CR home afterward. A video report later surfaced that described LS stumbling out of the SW elevator and falling to her knees. LE said at one point that they "made their way" toward 5 North, so who was helping who has always seemed fuzzy, IMO.

imkeylime
04-24-2012, 01:17 PM
I've wondered this too.

This reminded me of my very first reaction to those early rumors about possible overdose and unnamed drug dealers... My earliest thoughts about what happened, and the phone call to DR were:

1) Lauren was in some kind of distress at this point. They knew she had either gotten drugs/ done drugs with DR earlier in the night, and called him to find out what she had done, or what to do... (Or possibly Lauren herself called, for the same reason)

2) Lauren had left with the intention of coming back, and when she didn't, they called him to see if he knew what happened or if she had ended up back at Smallwood. One thing that comes to mind, given the rumors, is meeting someone to pick up drugs. In my experience at parties in university, drug dealers did not come and drop off the party supplies at the door. Someone would have to go meet them, or drive around the block with them to make the exchange. Girls often did this, even by themselves. (Seems crazy now, but it was assumed at the time that the person was someone that people knew so it was okay) I wondered, early on, if it was possible that Lauren went to meet someone in that parking lot/ alley and never made it back... But then, it seems that if something like that happened, there would have been phone records leading to someone else, and possibly more cooperation from the POI. It also assumes she was in the condition to not only leave by herself but that she wanted to continue partying, which seems doubtful based on the other evidence. And that doubt brings me right back to questioning the stories of the POI... more thinking in circles.

(I have to add that I don't really like speculating about drugs because I see that her parents have been upset by these rumors and that they have caused some negative backlash against Lauren. At the same time, I've always felt that the early rumors were detailed enough and consistent enough that there may be at least a grain of truth in there somewhere... )

I've had similar thoughts, Abbey. Due to LS' petite size and heart condition, a small amount of anything with alcohol could have been dangerous—even the fight at SW could have triggered her long QT syndrome, I believe. And of course we've discussed someone slipping her something at Sports or before, which could have had the same effect.

My biggest fear is that she had a heart-related issue and the POIs thought she was ODing. That would make this tragic story even more tragic.

Re: girls going to meet DD, etc. IMO, a lot of girls don't think that people their own age would harm them, regardless of the circumstances. And I suppose we inadvertently support that by warning them about "dirty old men," etc.

Jupiter812
04-24-2012, 04:26 PM
Wouldn't this be the video that was described earlier of Lauren stumbling out of the elevator and CR helping her up and out of the building? This story was the one that challenged CR's first account that LS was helping him.

I don't know of any account that named CR as the one who helped her up and out. This is the report I'm referring to:

“She comes stumbling out of the elevator, trips several times toward the corner of the lobby, where she comes to rest in the corner of the lobby, falls to her knees and leans against the wall for support until a male companion comes to her aid, gathers her under his arm and escorts out of the front of the building,” a source who has viewed the video tells the Journal News.

I've always wondered if one of the boys from the altercation or a Smallwood resident helped her up and out and then she and CR met up outside.

Jacobite
04-24-2012, 06:48 PM
I don't know of any account that named CR as the one who helped her up and out. This is the report I'm referring to:

“She comes stumbling out of the elevator, trips several times toward the corner of the lobby, where she comes to rest in the corner of the lobby, falls to her knees and leans against the wall for support until a male companion comes to her aid, gathers her under his arm and escorts out of the front of the building,” a source who has viewed the video tells the Journal News.

I've always wondered if one of the boys from the altercation or a Smallwood resident helped her up and out and then she and CR met up outside.

Disgusting! She could not consent to anything at this point and may have needed medical attention for a Long QT episode. Why would a decent guy take a girl home with him in this condition? Lame! And, asking for trouble.
However, despite his poor judgement, I don't think he hid her body. Maybe, he was slipped a roofie too. That would explain his memory loss.
Corey needs to talk with Rob, man to man.

AbbeyR
04-24-2012, 08:03 PM
I don't know of any account that named CR as the one who helped her up and out.... <snipped>

Here's one. I thought the original article was in Lohud though. I remember it because of the discussion here last summer about the 'unnamed source'...

July 24: Video disputes claim Lauren Spierer helped a friend home

http://www.examiner.com/article/video-disputes-claim-lauren-spierer-helped-a-friend-home

An unnamed witness has come forward stating that a security camera video showing Ms. Spierer leaving the elevator of her Bloomington, IN apartment building, Smallwood Plaza, with a friend, Corey Rossman, conflicts with a statement that Rossman made to police that the 95 pound, 4 feet 11 inch woman was helping him home, after he was punched in the face during a fight, according to reports published on Friday, July 22, 2011 by WRTV 6News Indianapolis, WXIN-TV Fox59, ABC News, and other information sources.

AbbeyR
04-24-2012, 08:17 PM
IMO, a lot of girls don't think that people their own age would harm them, regardless of the circumstances. And I suppose we inadvertently support that by warning them about "dirty old men," etc.

So true.

Someone here (maybe you!) once said that because of Lauren's case, they talked to their kids to make sure they think about whether they can trust that the friends they are out with have their backs, in case they ever get into any kind of trouble. Living in a student and frat-house filled neighborhood where I see drunk girls stumbling home alone all the time, I often think of this. It's a good conversation to have.

Jupiter812
04-24-2012, 09:20 PM
Here's one. I thought the original article was in Lohud though. I remember it because of the discussion here last summer about the 'unnamed source'...


Yes, that is the same article I was thinking of. The quote I posted above is from the original article in the Journal News on LoHud.com. Maybe they couldn't tell for sure when viewing the video whether it was CR.

cluciano63
04-24-2012, 09:55 PM
I just find it kind of sickening that every friend of Lauren's hasn't spent time her parents and allow them to ask them anything they want about that night, about Lauren, about any new friends she had made, anything they feel they need to know. I would hand myself over to her parents if I had been with Lauren that night and had done nothing more than the usual drinking and possibly drugging that so many do...as long I had not harmed her, I would ignore any advice not to talk to them, if it would help her parents in any way.

I do not think of people in their early 20's as kids, personally...so it is hard for me to make that excuse. I guess because I was married at this age and working full time as well as going to college, my mom was married and teaching at 21, and I felt that in every way I was an adult once I graduated from high school. I know it is very different with these pampered kids...but don't they still have feelings??

JMO

akh
04-25-2012, 12:06 PM
It's easy to sit on the outside and say anyone and everyone should do whatever the parents want to help them find their daughter while ignoring legal advice. But for one thing, why would you seek legal advice and then ignore it? Number two, there are civil and criminal penalties to consider that might have nothing to do with her disappearance but certain statements could lead to someone deciding that is the piece they need to use as a hammer to get 'more' info. But if more info doesn't exist, and you had nothing to do with her disappearance, fighting that charge or some other trumped up charge being used as leverage to get you to confess would be a terrible price to pay just because you wanted to be helpful and ignored legal advice.

imkeylime
04-25-2012, 12:23 PM
So true.

Someone here (maybe you!) once said that because of Lauren's case, they talked to their kids to make sure they think about whether they can trust that the friends they are out with have their backs, in case they ever get into any kind of trouble. Living in a student and frat-house filled neighborhood where I see drunk girls stumbling home alone all the time, I often think of this. It's a good conversation to have.

Probably was ... LS definitely influences what I tell my kids. As RS recently pointed out, the "failure" to act seems significant here, on many levels. I hate to think that's a common response, but it seems likely that people you don't well have less interest in your safety.

Slightly OT, we have major police presence at our HS due to a student threatening to shoot up the school in an essay. While that's frightening, it's also frightening that many knew this student (now on house arrest) had been bullied for years. So "failure to act" was an issue there, too.

I do hate seeing girls walking alone, drunk or otherwise, so I hear you!

KaylynnCouture
04-25-2012, 02:25 PM
Father Of Missing Indiana College Student Calls Classmate A 'Liar And Coward'

As the one-year anniversary of their daughter's disappearance approaches, the parents of missing Indiana University student Lauren Spierer is making a personal appeal for help.

"We need compassion, we need caring, we need humanity," Spierer's father, Robert Spierer, told The Journal News. "We just need a shred of feeling to help us find our daughter and get closure."

Robert Spierer said he is frustrated with answering the same question over and over again. Instead, he made it clear he has reached a conclusion about Corey Rossman, a fellow college student at the university who was the last person to see Lauren Spierer.

"I think he's a liar and a coward," Robert Spierer told The Journal News.

Snipped: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/04/25/lauren-spierer-missing_n_1452865.html
(video at link)

Jupiter812
04-25-2012, 05:27 PM
Father Of Missing Indiana College Student Calls Classmate A 'Liar And Coward'



Snipped: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/04/25/lauren-spierer-missing_n_1452865.html
(video at link)

That video is touching beyond words. They are such dear, dear people. How can anyone deny them? You can just tell they raised their daughters to be the kind of persons who would always do for others what they are asking for themselves: Help find their daughter.

OldSteve
04-25-2012, 05:41 PM
I just find it kind of sickening that every friend of Lauren's hasn't spent time her parents and allow them to ask them anything they want about that night, about Lauren, about any new friends she had made, anything they feel they need to know. I would hand myself over to her parents if I had been with Lauren that night and had done nothing more than the usual drinking and possibly drugging that so many do...as long I had not harmed her, I would ignore any advice not to talk to them, if it would help her parents in any way.

I do not think of people in their early 20's as kids, personally...so it is hard for me to make that excuse. I guess because I was married at this age and working full time as well as going to college, my mom was married and teaching at 21, and I felt that in every way I was an adult once I graduated from high school. I know it is very different with these pampered kids...but don't they still have feelings??

JMO

It's too bad there is no such thing as offering immunity to civil litigation...
Perhaps if both criminal immunity and civil suit immunity could be offered, someone would speak!

Jacobite
04-25-2012, 06:30 PM
I don't believe Lauren knowingly or willfully took any drugs that caused her to disappear. She did not kill herself. The person who did this is a sociopath.
We will find this girl and I believe the location will betray the identity of the creep who committed the crime.

cluciano63
04-25-2012, 07:37 PM
I hope these "kids" who won't sit down with Lauren's parents never need help from their children's friends some day...or maybe I hope they do, so they will understand what pain they contributed to the Spierers. JMO

MonroeRes
04-25-2012, 09:02 PM
Hi again everyone, thanks for the warm welcome! It seems like the Spierer's are pretty sure that these guys are the culprits, I wonder if they have new information or are just tired of being diplomatic after LS's friends have been so unresponsive for so long. I was surprised to hear that they did not feel satisfied by JR's statement, this makes me feel like somehow JR, MB and CR all had some hand in this. One of the first times a reporter questioned CR he made the comment "I wasn't the last one to see her" and that is when the public found out about JR. That has always made me feel they weren't in it together, but now I'm thinking about why he would have said that and about possible scenarios that involve them all, any thoughts on that?

akh
04-26-2012, 12:16 AM
His atty said he wasn't the last to see her. Did CR ever publicly say that?

Jupiter812
04-26-2012, 07:16 AM
Hi again everyone, thanks for the warm welcome! It seems like the Spierer's are pretty sure that these guys are the culprits, I wonder if they have new information or are just tired of being diplomatic after LS's friends have been so unresponsive for so long. I was surprised to hear that they did not feel satisfied by JR's statement, this makes me feel like somehow JR, MB and CR all had some hand in this. One of the first times a reporter questioned CR he made the comment "I wasn't the last one to see her" and that is when the public found out about JR. That has always made me feel they weren't in it together, but now I'm thinking about why he would have said that and about possible scenarios that involve them all, any thoughts on that?

Excellent point. I remember that. He was leaving the police station after giving dna and wearing a purple shirt. It makes a lot of sense that they could be in this together by, for example being culpable of slipping roofie or providing coke and not calling 911. One could have obtained, one administered, etc.

Jupiter812
04-26-2012, 08:58 AM
Here is CR on tv news. His statement is at the very beginning. The part where he says it is partially cut. Also, it sounds like he says, "I didn't saw anything. I'm sorry." Eek. Yeah, he was probably nervous being approached on-camera by a reporter, but still..."saw?"

Search for Spierer: Police collect DNA - YouTube

AbbeyR
04-26-2012, 10:57 AM
Here is CR on tv news. His statement is at the very beginning. The part where he says it is partially cut. Also, it sounds like he says, "I didn't saw anything. I'm sorry." Eek. Yeah, he was probably nervous being approached on-camera by a reporter, but still..."saw?"

Search for Spierer: Police collect DNA - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-mW_ySvDPnw)

It's hard to understand because he's cut off, but I heard [I wasn't?] "..the last person with her. This is all I can say, I'm sorry"

Darcyline
04-26-2012, 05:17 PM
Her parents are very inspirational to me. They are probably stronger than they even know and I hope that wherever Lauren is she feels their love right now. It is absolutely tragic to me that she most likely died that night and now if they do get her back she wouldn't even be recognizable as Lauren. I am sorry that is a bit graphic.

I feel like multiple people failed Lauren that night even if they didn't outright murder her. I wonder if they do regret not protecting her. Or, if they grow older how they will feel sending their own daughters off to college and if they hope the boys/men that surround those daughters will do better than they did.

It doesn't seen like her parents will ever move on or get over it or anything. I wonder if that will eventually crack the case. Some cases seem to slip through the cracks, but I doubt that will ever happen with Lauren.

imkeylime
04-26-2012, 09:51 PM
Her parents are very inspirational to me. They are probably stronger than they even know and I hope that wherever Lauren is she feels their love right now. It is absolutely tragic to me that she most likely died that night and now if they do get her back she wouldn't even be recognizable as Lauren. I am sorry that is a bit graphic.

I feel like multiple people failed Lauren that night even if they didn't outright murder her. I wonder if they do regret not protecting her. Or, if they grow older how they will feel sending their own daughters off to college and if they hope the boys/men that surround those daughters will do better than they did.

It doesn't seen like her parents will ever move on or get over it or anything. I wonder if that will eventually crack the case. Some cases seem to slip through the cracks, but I doubt that will ever happen with Lauren.

I pray we're not sitting here when I'm old and gray discussing this case (though you're all good company!). But ... I do believe the Spierers have staying power, as they should.

I've only been invested in one case before (Oakland County Child Killer), and it's taught me that grieving parents who lack closure can be relentless. In that case, a mother just filed a $100M lawsuit against the county I grew up in. A father once paid $11,000 to have records photocopied. Having followed the case for all of my adult life, I understand why. (http://detroit.cbslocal.com/2012/04/24/mother-of-oakland-county-child-killer-victim-files-100m-lawsuit/)

Perhaps as the POIs age one or more will regret their silence and make things right. Hopefully sooner versus later.

Jacobite
04-27-2012, 01:46 PM
Time to put Lauren back to the top because we can't quit until she is found. Does anyone have info if we can clear any of the 10 POIs and why?

Jacobite
04-27-2012, 01:52 PM
It's too bad there is no such thing as offering immunity to civil litigation...
Perhaps if both criminal immunity and civil suit immunity could be offered, someone would speak!

If it was an accident? OK by me. Rape-Murder or Kidnapping equals no quarter,
no mercy. And, he will be caught. Lauren will be found.

shotgunhomicide
04-27-2012, 11:16 PM
The window of opportunity for forgiveness is over, in my opinion. If this was an accident that spiraled out of control (which I suspect), it doesn't negate everything they've put Lauren's family through. LS had her fair share of problems like we all do, but if her death was her own undoing, she still didn't deserve getting dumped like a sack of trash. NO ONE deserves that, and I hope there are still penalties for the person(s) involved if this is the case. It might not get anyone to speak up about what they know, but they deserve to know part of the torment the people that were the closest to Lauren have felt since her disappearance. Ultimately, that's why i'm starting to doubt this case will ever get resolved. Again, that's just the feeling I have, but i'm not privy to all of the evidence and information the Spierer's have.

In any event, I hope Lauren is at peace and I hope her family can eventually be at peace too. To the person(s) involved, there is no rest for the wicked.

cluciano63
04-28-2012, 12:49 AM
If it was an accident? OK by me. Rape-Murder or Kidnapping equals no quarter,
no mercy. And, he will be caught. Lauren will be found.

I don't know why you are so certain.
Many, many cases are not solved, people not found.
It doesn't mean that LE did not try, or that the family does not care...it just doesn't happen sometimes. In fact, lots of the time, unfortunately.
JMO

Jupiter812
04-28-2012, 09:26 AM
For the first time that I'm aware of, the Indiana Daily Student (IDS), IU's student newspaper, did not publish an article about the Spierer's recent interview. This is extremely sad. I understand they may have guidelines about publishing the parts about CR, as he is currently a student and not a suspect, but they printed nothing. The IDS is all student-run and they have an editorial board who votes on issues including what to print. They do have an advisor but as far as I know they are free from interference of IU administration.

AbbeyR
04-28-2012, 11:43 AM
I noticed that too, Jupiter.

I'm still thinking about how one of the last articles said that according to the Spierers, JR met up with LS at the bar. If JR and CR's stories were true, why on earth would these details not be out in the open. Why would it have ever been in question whether Lauren was by herself at the bar? Or whether she got kicked out? Why didn't her friends ever correct the rumors when they were speaking to the media early on? Instead, the only information that has ever been made public by the POI has been information that would defer any responsibility for Lauren, and Lauren's friends seem to have only appeared to speak for the POI: "JR didn't have any alcohol left at his house" "She asked MB if he wanted to party" "He watched her walk to the corner without stumbling".

I wonder if the JR info was told to the police/ Spierers or uncovered by the PI... I can sure understand the Spierers' frustration at the claims of cooperation from Lauren's friends/ POI, given the selective memory at work here.

Edited to add: This new detail, if true, also makes me rethink the whole out of town visitor component. From the beginning I have argued that the most likely scenario was that JR's supposed out-of-town guest wasn't even with them that night, because I couldn't understand how he would have been able to keep such a low profile and prevent this detail from getting to the media. Now I'm not so sure.

British
04-28-2012, 01:40 PM
That video is touching beyond words. They are such dear, dear people. How can anyone deny them? You can just tell they raised their daughters to be the kind of persons who would always do for others what they are asking for themselves: Help find their daughter.


I have started thinking that this case may be much simpler than the various scenarios and possibilities. Based on the news info, the POI who was with her most of the evening has refused to talk to the police and her parents and claims "memory loss". Is that right? That is my understanding at least. If so, that is suspicious. If e there was really "memory loss" why would n't he talk to her parents and/or the police? There would be nothing to be afraid of, as he supposedly suffers from memory loss about the incident. The combination of the claim of memory loss AND the refusal to talk is suspicious.

An alternative scenario may be that LS never made it back to 5 North. Is it possible that LS "disappeared" before she made it back to the 5 North apartments? Is it possible that the POI with the "memory loss" returned alone to that building after LS "disappeared" and his roommate and the neighbor POI offered to help him and cover up for him not knowing what exactly might have happened? I have not read anywhere any evidence from cameras documenting that LS really made it to 5 North.

Queen_City
04-28-2012, 01:48 PM
http://newsandtribune.com/breakingnews/x157474431/Human-remains-found

At least one set of human remains found on the property of a man that has been charged with murder... but the remains aren't from either woman that they have charged him with. Obviously this is just speculation, but it's scary to think that it could be Lauren, or anyone that has gone missing from Indiana for that matter.

imkeylime
04-28-2012, 02:54 PM
http://newsandtribune.com/breakingnews/x157474431/Human-remains-found

At least one set of human remains found on the property of a man that has been charged with murder... but the remains aren't from either woman that they have charged him with. Obviously this is just speculation, but it's scary to think that it could be Lauren, or anyone that has gone missing from Indiana for that matter.

Wow, that is scary, especially given the statement that the "remains appear to be weeks to months old — at the most." The poor Spierers, having to go through this every time a gruesome discovery is made.

I'm on my way out (and running late), but where is this property in relation to Bloomington, if I may ask ...

Jacobite
04-28-2012, 03:32 PM
New Albany is just across the Ohio River from Louisville, KY. Don't think this is Lauren. More likely a nearby 35 year old Charleston woman who went missing in March. Likely, Stephanie Marie Kirk.

Jupiter812
04-28-2012, 03:47 PM
I noticed that too, Jupiter.

I'm still thinking about how one of the last articles said that according to the Spierers, JR met up with LS at the bar. If JR and CR's stories were true, why on earth would these details not be out in the open. Why would it have ever been in question whether Lauren was by herself at the bar? Or whether she got kicked out? Why didn't her friends ever correct the rumors when they were speaking to the media early on? Instead, the only information that has ever been made public by the POI has been information that would defer any responsibility for Lauren, and Lauren's friends seem to have only appeared to speak for the POI: "JR didn't have any alcohol left at his house" "She asked MB if he wanted to party" "He watched her walk to the corner without stumbling".

I wonder if the JR info was told to the police/ Spierers or uncovered by the PI... I can sure understand the Spierers' frustration at the claims of cooperation from Lauren's friends/ POI, given the selective memory at work here.

Edited to add: This new detail, if true, also makes me rethink the whole out of town visitor component. From the beginning I have argued that the most likely scenario was that JR's supposed out-of-town guest wasn't even with them that night, because I couldn't understand how he would have been able to keep such a low profile and prevent this detail from getting to the media. Now I'm not so sure.

AnalyticalExaminer posted once or twice here about JR being at Sports that night.

Seems that her friends have reason to make her the guilty one, to point the finger at her and distance themselves. I recall when HT and perhaps it was BW were on camera early in the first few days and they very eagerly chimed "We weren't there that night!" or We didn't go out! something like that.

Maybe some witnesses from Sports told LE early on but those witnesses are not part of the immediate circle who may have a pact to keep things hushed.

Jupiter812
04-28-2012, 03:52 PM
I have started thinking that this case may be much simpler than the various scenarios and possibilities. Based on the news info, the POI who was with her most of the evening has refused to talk to the police and her parents and claims "memory loss". Is that right? That is my understanding at least. If so, that is suspicious. If e there was really "memory loss" why would n't he talk to her parents and/or the police? There would be nothing to be afraid of, as he supposedly suffers from memory loss about the incident. The combination of the claim of memory loss AND the refusal to talk is suspicious.

An alternative scenario may be that LS never made it back to 5 North. Is it possible that LS "disappeared" before she made it back to the 5 North apartments? Is it possible that the POI with the "memory loss" returned alone to that building after LS "disappeared" and his roommate and the neighbor POI offered to help him and cover up for him not knowing what exactly might have happened? I have not read anywhere any evidence from cameras documenting that LS really made it to 5 North.

Nope, no cameras beyond the gravel lot which is where her key/card thingy was found by a neighbor.

British
04-28-2012, 05:30 PM
Nope, no cameras beyond the gravel lot which is where her key/card thingy was found by a neighbor.

That means that this theory is possible. She might have never made it to 5 North. And after her "disappearance", the PI with the "memory loss" might have returned back to his place alone and his friends decided to make up a story that would keep him out of trouble.

AbbeyR
04-28-2012, 06:13 PM
That means that this theory is possible. She might have never made it to 5 North. And after her "disappearance", the PI with the "memory loss" might have returned back to his place alone and his friends decided to make up a story that would keep him out of trouble.

Possible, but I wonder how far friends would be willing to go with a made up story. Would you be willing to have your name and face in the media as a POI just to keep a friend out of trouble? Would you avoid talking to LE or taking an official polygraph? Would you hire a high profile defense attorney all to cover for a friend? I don't think so, personally.

I do think it's possible that she didn't make it to 5 north conscious or without help though (given her things dropped in the gravel lot).

AbbeyR
04-28-2012, 07:04 PM
More rehashing of old stuff... but I just tried to find that article that had JR's account of the night, as told by HT. It's not online anymore at the original link, but is cited in full by commenter AK (June 26, 11:41 am) under this article: http://tonygatto.com/2011/06/26/missing-students-friends-continue-to-stonewall-leave-hadar-and-i-out-of-this/

It's kind of interesting to read it again, in retrospect, since IIRC, it's the first time the info from JR was made public -- If JR filled in the blanks for HT, note the info that is conveyed (and what isn't: i.e. him going to the bar)

* 12:30 am, LS and DR go to JR's. JR has out of town guest. They are joined by CR and MB.

* Rosenbaum had already run out of alcohol by the time Spierer and Rohn got to the apartment

* Rohn asked Spierer to go back to Smallwood at about 1:30 a.m.; but she said she was going to Kilroy’s Sports Bar. Spierer and Rossman went to Kilroy’s. Rohn went back to Smallwood

* Rossman left the bar around 2:30 a.m. — and Spierer walked out without her cellphone and without her shoes.They walked back to Spierer’s building where Rossman had an altercation with other students.[article inserts lawyer confirmation about CR's fight/ memory loss]

* Spierer and Rossman left Smallwood at about 2:45 a.m. and headed to his apartment [ article confirms last time LS seen on tape is in alley, then cites MB lawyer that MB put CR to bed, LS went to JR's.]

Back to Hadar;

* Rosenbaum told her he tried to stop Spierer from leaving, that he wanted her to sleep on the couch. Using Rosenbaum’s phone, Spierer called Rohn to find out if he knew where her cell phone was.... [article cites DR lawyer, phone not answered]

Also note, the whole story under which this is quoted is about how HT doesn't want to speak to Gatto about Lauren. And yet, she's willing to speak to the media as JR's voice (the last person to see LS) about aspects of the night that she would have no way of knowing about, while lawyers speak up for the other 3 POI.

British
04-28-2012, 07:51 PM
Possible, but I wonder how far friends would be willing to go with a made up story. Would you be willing to have your name and face in the media as a POI just to keep a friend out of trouble? Would you avoid talking to LE or taking an official polygraph? Would you hire a high profile defense attorney all to cover for a friend? I don't think so, personally.

I do think it's possible that she didn't make it to 5 north conscious or without help though (given her things dropped in the gravel lot).


It is possible that if they agreed to do that they were not expecting it would take such publicity or LE involvement. They might have assumed that police would buy their story quickly. If they lied initially, then they might have been afraid to change their stories. Lets not forget that they quickly hired lawyers who seemed to have advised them not to talk, at least in their absence.

The whole story starts with the "memory loss". That fact alone strongly suggests involvement in some way of one of the POIs. And if the POI with the memory loss was somehow responsible, the only way to explain the rest is that the other 2 (or at the very least one of the 2) covered up.

imkeylime
04-28-2012, 09:03 PM
Possible, but I wonder how far friends would be willing to go with a made up story. Would you be willing to have your name and face in the media as a POI just to keep a friend out of trouble? Would you avoid talking to LE or taking an official polygraph? Would you hire a high profile defense attorney all to cover for a friend? I don't think so, personally.

I do think it's possible that she didn't make it to 5 north conscious or without help though (given her things dropped in the gravel lot).

IDK ... perhaps one would do this only if the friend had something on you as well, i.e., the reason LS was in danger (or worse) had as much to do with one POI as another. While I don't believe CR's memory loss is legitimate, he might have been pretty messed up that night. Perhaps how he got that way is what he doesn't want to share, since LS might have been worse.

It does seem that JR and CR were close, as were CR and MB. I suppose there could be some unholy trinity between the three. Then you have DR, who was at JR's at the start. If something went down at JR's, DR might know. There's also the call to DR, which he never got. It seems the Spierers consider DR a friend, but I still wonder what that was all about.

Jacobite
04-28-2012, 09:22 PM
I recall Corey had a big smile when he defied a reporter on TV. That seemed strange.
I don't believe I'd be smiling if I was in his shoes.

Jupiter812
04-28-2012, 09:46 PM
More rehashing of old stuff... but I just tried to find that article that had JR's account of the night, as told by HT. It's not online anymore at the original link, but is cited in full by commenter AK (June 26, 11:41 am) under this article: http://tonygatto.com/2011/06/26/missing-students-friends-continue-to-stonewall-leave-hadar-and-i-out-of-this/

It's kind of interesting to read it again, in retrospect, since IIRC, it's the first time the info from JR was made public -- If JR filled in the blanks for HT, note the info that is conveyed (and what isn't: i.e. him going to the bar)

* 12:30 am, LS and DR go to JR's. JR has out of town guest. They are joined by CR and MB.

* Rosenbaum had already run out of alcohol by the time Spierer and Rohn got to the apartment

* Rohn asked Spierer to go back to Smallwood at about 1:30 a.m.; but she said she was going to Kilroy’s Sports Bar. Spierer and Rossman went to Kilroy’s. Rohn went back to Smallwood

* Rossman left the bar around 2:30 a.m. — and Spierer walked out without her cellphone and without her shoes.They walked back to Spierer’s building where Rossman had an altercation with other students.[article inserts lawyer confirmation about CR's fight/ memory loss]

* Spierer and Rossman left Smallwood at about 2:45 a.m. and headed to his apartment [ article confirms last time LS seen on tape is in alley, then cites MB lawyer that MB put CR to bed, LS went to JR's.]

Back to Hadar;

* Rosenbaum told her he tried to stop Spierer from leaving, that he wanted her to sleep on the couch. Using Rosenbaum’s phone, Spierer called Rohn to find out if he knew where her cell phone was.... [article cites DR lawyer, phone not answered]

Also note, the whole story under which this is quoted is about how HT doesn't want to speak to Gatto about Lauren. And yet, she's willing to speak to the media as JR's voice (the last person to see LS) about aspects of the night that she would have no way of knowing about, while lawyers speak up for the other 3 POI.

Rehashing old stuff is good to do. New or never-before noticed details can surface. For example, out of curiosity I was just searching to see what age JR was last June to see if could drink legally. I'll put it in its on post.

I'd wager that HT said JR ran out of alcohol by the time Lauren and DR arrived because this gets him off the hook for any alcohol she might have consumed there or to deflect any appearance of possible alcohol use. Also, it gives a good reason for the group to leave when it fact it could have gone like this: LS and DR go to JR's for party favors and he says "We have to go to Sports to get it."

12:30 a.m. is early to run out of alcohol on a Thurs night and with an out-of-town guest no less.

You make all good, valid points about HT. I think Gatto was onto her and she knew he wold ask the hard questions while the local media just let her talk and answer base questions.

JeannieC
04-28-2012, 09:48 PM
April 28, 2012
Remains found in New Albany backyard identified as missing woman

By TARA SCHMELZ tara.schmelz@newsandtribune.com


NEW ALBANY — Police have identified human remains found in the backyard of a New Albany home on Friday as those of 35-year-old Stephanie Marie Kirk, a Charlestown woman who has been missing since March.


http://newsandtribune.com/clarkcounty/x1378303512/Remains-identified-as-missing-woman

Jupiter812
04-28-2012, 09:52 PM
This is the detail I just found by looking at this map. See note on #3: It says Lauren generally used the Morton St. route. I never read or heard this before(!) We've always wondered about this.

http://www.heraldtimesonline.com/stories/2011/06/09/news.635642.sto

Ros
04-28-2012, 10:35 PM
Rehashing old stuff is good to do. New or never-before noticed details can surface. For example, out of curiosity I was just searching to see what age JR was last June to see if could drink legally. I'll put it in its on post.

I'd wager that HT said JR ran out of alcohol by the time Lauren and DR arrived because this gets him off the hook for any alcohol she might have consumed there or to deflect any appearance of possible alcohol use. Also, it gives a good reason for the group to leave when it fact it could have gone like this: LS and DR go to JR's for party favors and he says "We have to go to Sports to get it."

12:30 a.m. is early to run out of alcohol on a Thurs night and with an out-of-town guest no less.

You make all good, valid points about HT. I think Gatto was onto her and she knew he wold ask the hard questions while the local media just let her talk and answer base questions.

I have wondered whether or not HT knew more than she said publicly. It is odd that she was the one who told JR's version of the story to the press, when JR himself was keeping quiet and hiring a very good lawyer. Also, while several of LS's friends quickly put out Tweets about her disappearance, HT did not tweet anything until Monday. See Tony Gatto blog at link below. Also, HT said something (in an article that is now gone but partly quoted in a comment on Tony Gatto's site: "She [LS] is just a fun and smart girl who loves hanging out and partying. Unfortunately, it just went too far this time. I just think she was at the wrong place at the wrong time."

I wonder what she meant by "it just went too far this time."

http://tonygatto.com/2011/06/28/friends-urged-calls-to-other-friends-in-panicked-effort-to-find-lauren/

Darcyline
04-29-2012, 09:19 PM
I still believe HT had nothing really to do with what happened and doesn't know anymore than she has already spouted off. I really think she is someone who adores attention and ran her mouth to cameras for that reason. Slightly obnoxious, but not really involved or a key to solving the case. I know I differ from many here in that regard though.

I have played with the idea that JR/MB/?? were lying for CR, but it is difficult for me to imagine why multiple boys would lie for another one and ESPECIALLY JR putting himself out there as the one who saw her last and, therefore, making himself the traditional prime suspect. I don't know though-I guess some circumstances would make it possible especially if they were all involved somehow?

Jacobite
04-30-2012, 08:27 PM
I have wondered whether or not HT knew more than she said publicly. It is odd that she was the one who told JR's version of the story to the press, when JR himself was keeping quiet and hiring a very good lawyer. Also, while several of LS's friends quickly put out Tweets about her disappearance, HT did not tweet anything until Monday. See Tony Gatto blog at link below. Also, HT said something (in an article that is now gone but partly quoted in a comment on Tony Gatto's site: "She [LS] is just a fun and smart girl who loves hanging out and partying. Unfortunately, it just went too far this time. I just think she was at the wrong place at the wrong time."

I wonder what she meant by "it just went too far this time."

http://tonygatto.com/2011/06/28/friends-urged-calls-to-other-friends-in-panicked-effort-to-find-lauren/

When you play the whole interview in context, it appears she is saying Lauren got herself kidnapped by being out too late. Of course she also heard the same rumors we have heard. http://www.myfoxhouston.com/dpp/news/national/110608-search-for-missing-student

Jupiter812
04-30-2012, 09:49 PM
When you play the whole interview in context, it appears she is saying Lauren got herself kidnapped by being out too late. Of course she also heard the same rumors we have heard. http://www.myfoxhouston.com/dpp/news/national/110608-search-for-missing-student

Hard to know if HT said it the way the Fox article reads. If she did, and I wouldn't put it past her, she knew what she was saying but just why would she say it? She hints at...suggests....infers..

Jacobite
05-01-2012, 10:26 AM
Most who knew Lauren speak of the excellent student, the girl who spent evenings at
the libraries, the girl who was always volunteering, the girl who would jump into a bullying situation and stop it even when the bullies were bigger than her.
HT is friend of the POIs, one and all and perhaps she does not want to believe her friends may have committed such an awful crime and she says this is really a kidnapping. I want to believe that too. However, the unusual behavior of the POIs after the crime is poking holes in my kidnapping Stockholm theory. I wish they would stand up and clear their names if they can because they look so guilty in the eyes of the world.

akh
05-01-2012, 01:25 PM
Most who knew Lauren speak of the excellent student, the girl who spent evenings at
the libraries, the girl who was always volunteering, the girl who would jump into a bullying situation and stop it even when the bullies were bigger than her.
HT is friend of the POIs, one and all and perhaps she does not want to believe her friends may have committed such an awful crime and she says this is really a kidnapping. I want to believe that too. However, the unusual behavior of the POIs after the crime is poking holes in my kidnapping Stockholm theory. I wish they would stand up and clear their names if they can because they look so guilty in the eyes of the world.

Yes, but part of the reason they look so guilty is because all the focus is on them since they are the last ones to admit seeing her and this is the only info the authorities have released. ...and/or all that the media has really pushed for.

The boyfriend doesn't seem to be getting the scrutiny he otherwise would (or probably should), nor do the people involved in the altercation at Smallwood. There are many details there lacking from the public record. Without some word on why they shouldn't be considered it makes it hard to solely focus on anyone if you try to maintain an open mind. There's every chance that if we knew the reason for the altercation at Smallwood it could change everything. It could add several variables to the narrative that are sorely lacking. It could bring cause for a wider net, or it could totally be a non factor and actually shrink the net. I find it odd how that info has never really seen the light of day. I'm not sure if there's some good reason it should be secret or if it's a combination of LE being quiet to a fault and just bad investigative journalism to leave that part of the story un-mined.

cluciano63
05-01-2012, 01:31 PM
Yet whatever the reason for the altercation...LE probably knows the details and seemingly, it has not helped them...JMO

Jacobite
05-01-2012, 01:40 PM
Yes, but part of the reason they look so guilty is because all the focus is on them since they are the last ones to admit seeing her and this is the only info the authorities have released. ...and/or all that the media has really pushed for.

The boyfriend doesn't seem to be getting the scrutiny he otherwise would (or probably should), nor do the people involved in the altercation at Smallwood. There are many details there lacking from the public record. Without some word on why they shouldn't be considered it makes it hard to solely focus on anyone if you try to maintain an open mind. There's every chance that if we knew the reason for the altercation at Smallwood it could change everything. It could add several variables to the narrative that are sorely lacking. It could bring cause for a wider net, or it could totally be a non factor and actually shrink the net. I find it odd how that info has never really seen the light of day. I'm not sure if there's some good reason it should be secret or if it's a combination of LE being quiet to a fault and just bad investigative journalism to leave that part of the story un-mined.

I can't disagree with you. But, I must ask. Are you sure that anyone is investigating or looking for Lauren today besides us. This girl needs some help to go home.

akh
05-01-2012, 02:16 PM
I can't disagree with you. But, I must ask. Are you sure that anyone is investigating or looking for Lauren today besides us. This girl needs some help to go home.


The PI's might be doing something. OTOH, I imagine LE is just waiting on the phone to rang but actively doing nothing.

The counter argument to that might be they've done all they can do. Of course they haven't actually done any kind of information dissemination to see if getting more info to the public could shake something loose. But the argument against that is they don't want to jeopardize their case. And at some point you have to ask: What case (do they have)?

Jacobite
05-02-2012, 11:31 AM
Yet whatever the reason for the altercation...LE probably knows the details and seemingly, it has not helped them...JMO

I think even Deputies Barney and Gomer would have seen this as a red flag
because action speaks louder than words. However, it's not surprise surprise
surprise or shaaaaazzzzzzzaaaaaaaaam yet.