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nursebeeme
03-26-2012, 09:07 AM
New thread for a new day. Please remember the rules

:tos:



When posting an opinion please remember to use IMO or JMO.

:moo: :moo: :moo:

the crown will present its case in chapters:

Chapter 1: The day of the kidnapping. The surveillance video showing Rafferty driving up the street outside Tori's school and McClintic walking Tori up the street. Witnesses from and around Oliver Stephens public school will talk about seeing Tori.
An identification officer will use photographs and maps to show the route from Woodstock to Guelph.
Tori's mother, Tara McDonald, will testify about the frantic hours the family spent looking for Tori.

Chapter 2: Terri-Lynne McClintic. "She was an essential part of all that happened," Gowdey said. "I expect her credibility will be a major issue in this case."

Chapter 3: Guelph -- video surveillance and bank records detailing the events there.

Chapter 4: the Mount Forest death scene, which the jury will visit. "It will be difficult to go to the very place where this happened, I know that, but understanding the crime scene is crucial to understanding the crime," Gowdey said. Photographs, some of them graphic, will be used to explain "exactly how the killing happened."
"Unfortunately it is only through them that you can fully understand (the) evidence," Gowdey said.

Chapter 5: Police interaction with Rafferty.

Chapter 6: The searches of Rafferty and McClintic's residences and the evidence found.

Chapter 7: The Honda Civic. What was found inside.

Chapter 8: Rafferty's connection to the Mount Forest area.

Chapter 9: Comments Rafferty made to friends after April 8. "He had some interesting things to say to other people about Terri-Lynne McClintic and about the kidnapping itself," Gowdey said.

Chapter 10: The May 15 weekend and Rafferty's actions.

Chapter 11: The BlackBerry. The BlackBerry allowed police to track his movements April 8 and after.

Chapter 12: A recap of the surveillance video.
http://www.lfpress.com/news/london/r.../19463111.html

Salem's warning from last week:
Okay everybody - LISTEN UP! We are not bashing, accusing or blaming Tori's family here. It won't be allowed.
Children walk home from school every day without incident. Parents are not perfect, it's just not possible. Tori's parents DID NOT do this to her. TLM and an accomplice DID. That is where the blame goes.
We had a lot of family bashing in the early parts of this investigation after Tori went missing and a lot of baseless accusations - NONE OF WHICH PROVED TO BE TRUE. Victim and family bashing will not be allowed during this trial.
Thank you,
Salem
---------------------------------
and reposting SoSueMe's warning:
As some of you may have noticed, the members following this case are dropping in numbers. It's disheartening to us because we need and welcome discussion of both sides of every issue on Websleuths.
Zero tolerance means ZERO tolerance. Please discuss this case with respect to your fellow members. Subtle and veiled harassment and/or talking in code about other members will not be tolerated.
A word of caution on the Alerts in this forum. If you alert a post, make sure it is a clear violation of our Terms of Service. A difference of opinion is not a violation of TOS.
Please note that everything discussed in court and printed/tweeted is now within the realm of discussion. WS has never and does not now have a policy of "innocent until proven guilty." That is for the court room. Here, we discuss, speculate, theorize and judge according to the opinions we develop from following the case.
Keeping that in mind, abuse of our alert system is a good way to find yourself in timeout or worse. Abuse of the alert systems includes, but is not limited to:
Alerting repeatedly on the same poster;
Demanding a specific outcome;
Alerting on the same post more than once.
Once you have alerted a post, move on and don't question the decisions of our Administrators, Moderators or Owners.
Following this trial is very important to our members and we're going to see that they have their day in court. The "zero tolerance" policy in this forum will continue and it will be enforced.
Thank you and please carry on.
Sue aka SoSueMe
Websleuths Co-Owner

~n/t~
03-27-2012, 08:26 AM
Good Morning!

http://media.citytv.topscms.com/images/ee/ed/95c5ec3c458183d0a27c3526a465.jpg

~n/t~
03-27-2012, 08:29 AM
Tori's Law - we're up to over 7000 signatures!!! :)

http://www.change.org/petitions/tori-s-law

matou
03-27-2012, 08:31 AM
Chapter 3: Video surveillance and bank records today? JMO

nursebeeme
03-27-2012, 08:32 AM
morning peeps! (hey n/t I had a lot of coffee this morning so the thread is open bright and early!)

crazyladi
03-27-2012, 08:34 AM
Did they already go to Mount Forest yesterday? Are we on chapter 5 now?

~n/t~
03-27-2012, 08:37 AM
morning peeps! (hey n/t I had a lot of coffee this morning so the thread is open bright and early!)

:rocker:

Did you see the coffee and cake I left you on the other thread?

~n/t~
03-27-2012, 08:40 AM
Did they already go to Mount Forest yesterday? Are we on chapter 5 now?

Good question. Not sure if they went yesterday or not. It appears they skipped over chapter 4 for now. It probably has to do with arrangements and weather?

Hopefully we'll find out today when it's scheduled.

giantalkinghead
03-27-2012, 08:47 AM
Good Morning!

http://media.citytv.topscms.com/images/ee/ed/95c5ec3c458183d0a27c3526a465.jpg


She certainly was a beautiful little girl.... thanks for reminding us what this trial is all about. RIP little one

~n/t~
03-27-2012, 08:47 AM
Rafferty trial shifts focus

The first-degree murder trial of Michael Rafferty, 31, is set to resume Tuesday, with the Crown's case focusing now on the events in Guelph the day Victoria 'Tori' Stafford went missing.

http://www.lfpress.com/news/london/raffertytrial/2012/03/27/19554161.html

nursebeeme
03-27-2012, 08:49 AM
I **think** we are only on chapter 3? (refer to opening post.... I color coded it for easy reference)

~n/t~
03-27-2012, 08:59 AM
I **think** we are only on chapter 3? (refer to opening post.... I color coded it for easy reference)

You could be right but we did have some of Chapter 5 already. Rafferty's interview with police. Maybe there is more to come (??).

nobodyzgirl
03-27-2012, 09:03 AM
A London, Ont., jury is expected to hear testimony today from a woman who sold drugs to Michael Rafferty, who is on trial for murder in the death of Woodstock girl Victoria Stafford.

Last week, the defence sought to paint Rafferty as a horrified spectator to his former girlfriend's plan to kidnap the eight-year-old Victoria, also known as Tori, over a drug debt.

Terri-Lynne McClintic, who has completed her testimony, denied the defence allegations, saying Rafferty urged her to kidnap the girl.

Rafferty, 31, has pleaded not guilty to first-degree murder, sexual assault causing bodily harm and kidnapping.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/story/2012/03/27/stafford-rafferty-trial-tuesday.html

snoofer
03-27-2012, 09:19 AM
She certainly was a beautiful little girl.... thanks for reminding us what this trial is all about. RIP little one

Yes, she is beautiful. There is one picture I saw that really captures both of her parents in her face....you see her mother in her eyes and jaw and her father in her cheeks, nose and smile. I can't wait til this trial is over so they can get to the healing (I hope all the family members are in to long term counselling.) I also wonder if RS is in contact with any people like Mark Klaas and others. I think advocation and staying involved in Missing Kids is crucial for RS. I love the photo of TM and her mother hugging her at the trial. She seems to have a good support in Tori's grandmother.

Even in the darkest of hours and days there are rays of sunshine and hope. You see this with the families. God Bless them and Tori.:twocents:

snoofer
03-27-2012, 09:32 AM
Can't help but to be in awe of the strength of character, committment and skills of the LE and Corrections personel who dedicate their lives every day to dealing with those in society the rest of us do not have the fortitude to deal with. I only have ever met one Correction officer who moonlighted as security officer at another place. I must say I was in awe of how sharp, strong and skilled he was (and I assume most would be like that). I was left with the impression that this corrections officer provided the perfect balance of respect for others and strength and skill that you KNEW he was perfect for the job. Almost like a perfect counter balance to those that he dealt with but on the side of good. These jobs must take a personal toll but yet they do it. IMO they really are heroes. It is sometimes easy to forget our first line people who do these jobs on a daily basis and to imagine what their days must be like. Let's be sure and pay them well and be sure and let our politicians know we expect them to be paid well.

~n/t~
03-27-2012, 09:36 AM
Yes, she is beautiful. There is one picture I saw that really captures both of her parents in her face....you see her mother in her eyes and jaw and her father in her cheeks, nose and smile. I can't wait til this trial is over so they can get to the healing (I hope all the family members are in to long term counselling.) I also wonder if RS is in contact with any people like Mark Klaas and others. I think advocation and staying involved in Missing Kids is crucial for RS. I love the photo of TM and her mother hugging her at the trial. She seems to have a good support in Tori's grandmother.

Even in the darkest of hours and days there are rays of sunshine and hope. You see this with the families. God Bless them and Tori.:twocents:

Rodney was very much involved with Child Find Ontario and rode his bike across Canada to raise funds. He raised over $50,000


Stafford's cycling raises funds for Child Find
http://www.brantfordexpositor.ca/ArticleDisplay.aspx?archive=true&e=2177183


http://www.baytoday.ca/uploads/content/toristafford0.JPG


He then did one with D called Kilometers for Kids - "A Sibling Story".

http://lloydminstersource.com/Portals/0/News%20Photos/10June/Tori%20Stafford%20bike%20ride.JPG

http://lloydminstersource.com/News/tabid/68/entryid/468/Default.aspx




I hope they continue. Who better to raise awareness than family members of murdered children?

God Bless them. :rose:

~n/t~
03-27-2012, 09:38 AM
9:37
Mike Knoll: @mctj - scheduled for 3 months.
9:37
Comment From mctj
how long is the trial expected to last?
9:25
Mike Knoll: Right now, we are in Chapter 3.
9:24
Mike Knoll: full article can be found here: http://www.lfpress.com/news/london/raffertytrial/2012/03/05/19463111.html
9:24
Mike Knoll: Here is a breakdown of how the trial will play out according to Crown attorney Kevin Gowdey from Randy Richmond's day 1 article:

Chapter 1: The day of the kidnapping. The surveillance video showing Rafferty driving up the street outside Tori's school and McClintic walking Tori up the street. Witnesses from and around Oliver Stephens public school will talk about seeing Tori.

An identification officer will use photographs and maps to show the route from Woodstock to Guelph.

Tori's mother, Tara McDonald, will testify about the frantic hours the family spent looking for Tori.

Chapter 2: Terri-Lynne McClintic. "She was an essential part of all that happened," Gowdey said. "I expect her credibility will be a major issue in this case."

Chapter 3: Guelph -- video surveillance and bank records detailing the events there.

Chapter 4: the Mount Forest death scene, which the jury will visit. "It will be difficult to go to the very place where this happened, I know that, but understanding the crime scene is crucial to understanding the crime," Gowdey said. Photographs, some of them graphic, will be used to explain "exactly how the killing happened."

"Unfortunately it is only through them that you can fully understand (the) evidence," Gowdey said.

Chapter 5: Police interaction with Rafferty.

Chapter 6: The searches of Rafferty and McClintic's residences and the evidence found.

Chapter 7: The Honda Civic. What was found inside.

Chapter 8: Rafferty's connection to the Mount Forest area.

Chapter 9: Comments Rafferty made to friends after April 8. "He had some interesting things to say to other people about Terri-Lynne McClintic and about the kidnapping itself," Gowdey said.

Chapter 10: The May 15 weekend and Rafferty's actions.

Chapter 11: The BlackBerry. The BlackBerry allowed police to track his movements April 8 and after.

Chapter 12: A recap of the surveillance video.
9:23
Mike Knoll: Trial is set to resume at 10AM.
Tuesday March 27, 2012


http://www.lfpress.com/news/london/raffertytrial/2012/03/27/19554161.html#/news/london/raffertytrial/2012/03/27/pf-19554166.html

snoofer
03-27-2012, 09:40 AM
Rodney was very much involved with Child Find Ontario and rode his bike across Canada to raise funds. He raised over $50,000


Stafford's cycling raises funds for Child Find
http://www.brantfordexpositor.ca/ArticleDisplay.aspx?archive=true&e=2177183


http://www.baytoday.ca/uploads/content/toristafford0.JPG


He then did one with D called Kilometers for Kids - "A Sibling Story".

http://lloydminstersource.com/Portals/0/News%20Photos/10June/Tori%20Stafford%20bike%20ride.JPG

http://lloydminstersource.com/News/tabid/68/entryid/468/Default.aspx




I hope they continue. Who better to raise awareness than family members of murdered children?

God Bless them. :rose:

Yes I saw that...and I hope he continues as part of a life long quest as I think RS needs it and I also think he has a way of reaching the masses...which truly is a unique gift. He is doing Tori proud. It is amazing how some triumphs can come out of such tragedy's..yet there it is. I think when you see such evil and depravity...it opens the door to see the rising above and the other side of the coin and to see the richness of soul of other human beings.

~n/t~
03-27-2012, 09:42 AM
Poor Mike Knoll. He gets asked this question all the time :floorlaugh:

9:40
Mike Knoll: @guest - I'm just going to answer this one now as it will be asked 100 more times today: It's unknown if Rafferty will take the stand.

9:39
Comment From Guest
dose rafferty go on the stand at some time

~n/t~
03-27-2012, 09:46 AM
RaffertyLFP: The media contingent is much smaller today now that McClintic finished testimony on Friday [via Twitter]


RaffertyLFP: Waiting for the Rafferty trial to resume at 10 a.m. [via Twitter]

myzzy
03-27-2012, 09:48 AM
Good moring all, all caught up for the start of the day :)

JayFriend
03-27-2012, 09:50 AM
Poor Mike Knoll. He gets asked this question all the time :floorlaugh:

9:40
Mike Knoll: @guest - I'm just going to answer this one now as it will be asked 100 more times today: It's unknown if Rafferty will take the stand.

9:39
Comment From Guest
dose rafferty go on the stand at some time

Judging from the strategy the defence is taking, there's a lot of speculation the jury would have to believe to get MR off or reduce his sentence. Unless MR takes the stand, his defence is all conjecture and speculation by his lawyer. If he's really not guilty, he has to take the stand.

Sailor Bug
03-27-2012, 09:50 AM
Guelph

-Tori was first taken to Guelph where Raffferty used to live -went to house of Barbara A bought Percosets

-The pair then went to a Petro Canada gas station in the north end of Guelph, where a video camera caught Rafferty heading to the ATM machine. He took out cash, got back in the car and drove closer to a nearby Home Depot

-Car went to Home Depot in Guelph, McClintic bought garbage bags and hammer paid cash put stuff in trunk

-Civic went north of Guelph on Hwy 6

jmo

snoofer
03-27-2012, 09:53 AM
Judging from the strategy the defence is taking, there's a lot of speculation the jury would have to believe to get MR off or reduce his sentence. Unless MR takes the stand, his defence is all conjecture and speculation by his lawyer. If he's really not guilty, he has to take the stand.

Yes and I am curious if this defense is more about what prison rating level he will get based on outcome ie what kind of prisoner status level he will receive. Depending on what level he rates will determine what kind of day he will have in prison..whether it will be in a cell 23 hours a day or will he have more freedoms IMO. I am under the impression there are different levels of doing time...AND...also it determins what type of facility he will be housed in. IMO

LilyMacBloom
03-27-2012, 10:01 AM
Chapter 4: the Mount Forest death scene, which the jury will visit. "It will be difficult to go to the very place where this happened, I know that, but understanding the crime scene is crucial to understanding the crime," Gowdey said. Photographs, some of them graphic, will be used to explain "exactly how the killing happened


Photographs??? does this mean MR took pics with his phone???

Sailor Bug
03-27-2012, 10:02 AM
The media contingent is much smaller today now that McClintic finished testimony on Friday

~n/t~
03-27-2012, 10:04 AM
Chapter 4: the Mount Forest death scene, which the jury will visit. "It will be difficult to go to the very place where this happened, I know that, but understanding the crime scene is crucial to understanding the crime," Gowdey said. Photographs, some of them graphic, will be used to explain "exactly how the killing happened


Photographs??? does this mean MR took pics with his phone???

Also, I remember way way back that MRs sexual deviance or some such behaviour was well known to peeps who work with his mom that she had missed work etc. Do we know for sure he doesn't have a record as a young offender? or maybe the situation resolved without charges or something.

I'll have to go back in my own posts and see if I can find that.

I think he means photographs taken by LE. They will be used to explain how the killing happened. Putting the pieces of the puzzle together for this jury. IMO

~n/t~
03-27-2012, 10:04 AM
RaffertyLFP: Trial is resuming - waiting for jury to come in [via Twitter]

Sailor Bug
03-27-2012, 10:05 AM
Trial is resuming - waiting for jury to come in

RaffertyLFP: First witness is Barbara Armstrong from Guelph

Crown calls Barbara Armstrong as next witness. She is the friend of #Rafferty's who allegedly sold him Percocet in Guelph Apr. 8th, 2009

RaffertyLFP: Armstrong says she is 44 and from Guelph - has two children Worked at Better Beef now Cargill as packager

Armstrong said she met Rafferty at work - at Better Beef - says he was soon laid off

~n/t~
03-27-2012, 10:06 AM
Steven D'Souza ‏ @cbcsteve
Barbara Armstrong is the first witness today as #Rafferty trial resumes this morning

~n/t~
03-27-2012, 10:07 AM
RaffertyLFP: Armstrong says she is 44 and from Guelph - has two children Worked at Better Beef now Cargill as packager [via Twitter]

nobodyzgirl
03-27-2012, 10:08 AM
Barbara Armstrong is the first witness today as #Rafferty trial resumes this morning

~n/t~
03-27-2012, 10:08 AM
RaffertyLFP: Armstrong said she met Rafferty at work - at Better Beef - says he was soon laid off [via Twitter]

RaffertyLFP: Armstrong says Rafferty worked as a butcher in plant - says they dated for a while but continues to be friends [via Twitter]

nobodyzgirl
03-27-2012, 10:08 AM
Crown calls Barbara Armstrong as next witness. She is the friend of #Rafferty's who allegedly sold him Percocet in Guelph Apr. 8th, 2009.

Sailor Bug
03-27-2012, 10:08 AM
Armstrong is 44. Explaining her work history. Lived in Guelph in 2009

Armstrong has known Rafferty for six years. He worked at a meatpacking plant with her.

Armstrong says Rafferty worked as a butcher in plant - says they dated for a while but continues to be friends

RaffertyLFP: Armstrong said they frequently sent text message to each other

Rafferty and Armstrong dated for about two months. Remained friends afterwards.

~n/t~
03-27-2012, 10:09 AM
RaffertyLFP: Armstrong said they frequently sent text message to each other. [via Twitter]

nobodyzgirl
03-27-2012, 10:09 AM
Barbara Armstrong dated #Rafferty briefly. Became friends afterwards. Were "confidantes".

~n/t~
03-27-2012, 10:10 AM
Avery Moore ‏ @AveryFreeFMNews
Barbara Armstrong dated #Rafferty briefly. Became friends afterwards. Were "confidantes".

Sailor Bug
03-27-2012, 10:10 AM
RaffertyLFP: On April 8, 2009 Armstrong worked day shift at Better Beef - got text message from Rafferty

Barbara Armstrong dated #Rafferty briefly. Became friends afterwards. Were "confidantes".

Armstrong says she would text back and forth with Rafferty 10 times a month.

RaffertyLFP: Armstrong got back from work around 4:30 p.m that day to find Rafferty parked outside her home - car was blue Honda Civic

Armstrong and #Rafferty were texting on Apr. 8, 2009. Planned to see each other that day.

~n/t~
03-27-2012, 10:11 AM
RaffertyLFP: On April 8, 2009 Armstrong worked day shift at Better Beef - got text message from Rafferty [via Twitter]

nobodyzgirl
03-27-2012, 10:12 AM
Armstrong and #Rafferty were texting on Apr. 8, 2009. Planned to see each other that day.

Armstrong says she came home from work to find #Rafferty parked outside her house in a blue Honda Civic.

Sailor Bug
03-27-2012, 10:12 AM
Armstrong says, based on text messages, she expected to see Rafferty on April 8th, 2009. After work. She got home at 4:30.

Rafferty was there, waiting for her, she says.

Armstrong got back from work around 4:30 p.m that day to find Rafferty parked outside her home - car was blue Honda Civic

Armstrong identifies photos of school near her home and the duplex where she lives Identifies exactly where Rafferty parked

Armstrong says she came home from work to find #Rafferty parked outside her house in a blue Honda Civic

Showing the jury Armstrong's home. She says Rafferty's car was parked in front of a tree in her yard.

nobodyzgirl
03-27-2012, 10:14 AM
Armstrong says, based on text messages, she expected to see Rafferty on April 8th, 2009. After work. She got home at 4:30

Rafferty was there, waiting for her, she says.

Showing the jury Armstrong's home. She says Rafferty's car was parked in front of a tree in her yard.

Sailor Bug
03-27-2012, 10:14 AM
Armstrong said Rafferty got out of his car and went inside with her. She says she saw brown-haired young woman in Rafferty's car

Says the woman stayed in the car. Armstrong says she sold Rafferty percacets.

Armstrong says #Rafferty met her in the driveway. She saw a woman in the passenger seat. Armstrong sold him Percocets.

RaffertyLFP: Armstrong said she sold Percocets pills to Rafferty Said she sold him the pills about twice a month

Sailor Bug
03-27-2012, 10:17 AM
Rafferty told Armstrong percacets were for his mother, who had a sore back. She can't remember how many pills she sold him.

RaffertyLFP: Armstrong said Rafferty was in house about 10 minutes then he left - no further contact that day

Armstrong heard about Rafferty's arrest on television, the day it happened.

Armstrong said the next time she saw Rafferty he looked haggard - had cold sores told her he was stressed out and not eating or sleeping

~n/t~
03-27-2012, 10:19 AM
Avery Moore ‏ @AveryFreeFMNews
Armstrong says #Rafferty met her in the driveway. She saw a woman in the passenger seat. Armstrong sold him Percocets.


Steven D'Souza ‏
Armstrong says #Rafferty texted her morning of Apr. 8/09. She got home from work at 4:30 p.m., he was parked in front of her house

Avery Moore ‏
Armstrong says she came home from work to find #Rafferty parked outside her house in a blue Honda Civic.

~n/t~
03-27-2012, 10:20 AM
Steven D'Souza ‏ @cbcsteve
Armstrong says she'd been selling #Rafferty pills for about a year. She testifies he initially told her that pills were for his mother

nettie_82
03-27-2012, 10:20 AM
RaffertyLFP: Armstrong said the next time she saw Rafferty he looked haggard - had cold sores told her he was stressed out and not eating or sleeping

robynhood
03-27-2012, 10:21 AM
..just thought I would copy this tweet directly from a reporter @ the trial....hopefully this will work and I have done it properly as I know everyone wants to know this....9:40

Mike Knoll: @guest - I'm just going to answer this one now as it will be asked 100 more times today: It's unknown if Rafferty will take the stand.
Trailis to reume any moment and the are on chapter 3 ... GUELPH .banks statements & survillence

Sailor Bug
03-27-2012, 10:21 AM
Armstrong says #Rafferty visited her home in Guelph about a dozen times between Apr. 8th and his arrest on May 19th. Also texted.

RaffertyLFP: Armstrong said Rafferty told her that "a friend of a friends daughter was missing" and that he going to help look for her

Armstrong saw Rafferty after April 8th. He was "stressed out". Looked worn down. He said a friend of a friend's daughter had gone missing

Armstrongs says #Rafferty told her on one visit that a friend of a friends daughter went missing and he was going to help look for her

Sailor Bug
03-27-2012, 10:22 AM
Armstrong said Rafferty told her Tori's abduction was drug-related- that the mom owed money

Armstrong said Rafferty was "going to go look for her." He said he heard disappearance was drug related. Tori's mom "owed a lot of money"

RaffertyLFP: Armstrong said Rafferty told her that he knew the girl (McClintic) that had been taken in for questioning

Armstrong said Rafferty told her that police were waking up McClintic in middle of night, spitting in her face

Sailor Bug
03-27-2012, 10:25 AM
Armstrong said she sent Rafferty a text in middle of May asking for his help in opening swimming pool

Rafferty says the suspect in the case was being woken up in the night, yelled at, and had her face spit in by police.

The next thing that Armstrong heard was Rafferty arrest on TV

Armstrong says #Rafferty told her he thought he recognized the woman in the white jacket in the surveillance videos.

nettie_82
03-27-2012, 10:26 AM
I feel TERRIBLE for Rodney, I hope everyone is open and honest on the stand, he really deserves that. When you hear all these statements saying her abduction was drug related it makes you really wonder what the truth is. I CANNOT imagine how he must be feeling, let alone how Tara must be feeling if these are simply untrue things being said. Rodney hit the nail on the head when saying we will never know the complete truth.

Sailor Bug
03-27-2012, 10:26 AM
Rafferty's last contact with Armstrong was between the 14th and 17th of May. She asked for help with her pool.

That's all the questions Crockett has. Derstine now cross examining

Crowns has no more questions for Barbara Armstong. Cross Examination begins

Derstine asks how long Rafferty was in her home. About ten minutes. They chatted, like they usually do.

Derstine starts cross-examination He asks how much they chatted when she sold him the Percocets. She said nothing unusual that day

Derstine suggests Rafferty wasn't in a rush to leave. She agrees. All the questions he has.

Defence asks Armstrong about #Rafferty's composure on Apr. 8. She agrees he wasn't a "man in a hurry". Armstrong excused

RaffertyLFP: Derstine wraps up questions

RaffertyLFP: Det.Constable David Vittie is next witness

Sailor Bug
03-27-2012, 10:30 AM
Det.Constable David Vittie is next witness

RaffertyLFP: Vittie is actually Det. Sgt

Vittie has been with the OPP since 2001. Working as an officer for 22 years.

RaffertyLFP: Vittie worked with Con. Kelly from Woodstock and helped to gather witness statements

Vittie was told on May 19th the investigation was now a murder case. Met with Detective-Inspector Renton that night.

Det. Const. David Vittee Followed up on tips in the #ToriStafford case

Vittie was assigned to go to the Guelph Home Depot and look through their security video from April 8th.

Sailor Bug
03-27-2012, 10:36 AM
Arrived at the Home Depot before 6 on the morning of May 20th. Met with loss prevention officer.

Vittie, who is from Burlington, went to the Home Depot in Guelph and picked up the security tape

RaffertyLFP: Vittie reviewed Home Depot security video and saw images of Rafferty car in parking lot at 5 p.m.

Vittie says he and Detective Cobstable Kelly were looking for a 2003, black Honda Civic in the parking lot. One arrived at 5 pm.

Sailor Bug
03-27-2012, 10:38 AM
Vittie said he saw a male exiting the car and enter another building, He gets back in car a short time later

On the video, a man left the Civic, then walked back to the car. Was walking towards another building. Then drove towards the Home Depot

Vittie said he saw car pul in front of Home Depot- a woman gets out, puts on white coat and runs toward the door of store

A woman got out of the car, ran towards the front door.

Photo shows the jury a Petro Canada just meters away from the Home Depot parking lot.

~n/t~
03-27-2012, 10:39 AM
RaffertyLFP: Vittie said he saw a male exiting the car and enter another building, He gets back in car a short time later [via Twitter]

Sailor Bug
03-27-2012, 10:44 AM
Police went to the Petro Canada, spoke to the manager. Asked if monitoring equipment was working. It was not hooked up.

Vittie said he talked to clerk at service station near the Home Depot - video equipment there was not working but adjacent Tim Horton's was

The Petro Canada also has a Tim Horton's, which has a camera. Police didnt see the man in the white shirt at 1st, time stamp was off 37 mins

Vittie said he could not initially find the male he was looking on video for but realized timer was incorrect -switched time and found him

~n/t~
03-27-2012, 10:44 AM
LFP seems to be the only one on the ball today. Others are slow with their tweets! Many aren't even there tweeting and will only give updates at the end of the day. :sigh:

Sailor Bug
03-27-2012, 10:47 AM
Vitties asked store owner for receipts from the ATM in store - located a receipt from April 8 at 5 p.m. for $80

Eventually saw the man in the white shirt entering the store. Also asked for ATM records. Man attempted to withdraw $100, was denied.

The person was eventually was able to take out 80 dollars, with a $1.50 fee.

Det. Const. Vittie is taking the court through slides of the Guelph gas station where it's alleged #Rafferty used an ATM Apr. 8th.

Slides showing photos from the Petro Canada. Now viewing video.

Video shows a man in a white shirt entering the store. Then heading towards the ATM. Then leaving just over a minute later.

nobodyzgirl
03-27-2012, 10:49 AM
Eventually saw the man in the white shirt entering the store. Also asked for ATM records. Man attempted to withdraw $100, was denied.

The person was eventually was able to take out 80 dollars, with a $1.50 fee.

~n/t~
03-27-2012, 10:50 AM
Avery Moore ‏ @AveryFreeFMNews
Det. Const. Vittie is taking the court through slides of the Guelph gas station where it's alleged #Rafferty used an ATM Apr. 8th.

Kamille
03-27-2012, 10:53 AM
Imagine how the employees of those businesses felt about learning that their video surveillance equipment wasn't working and that the employees are sitting ducks, especially at night, for robberies. If you've got a camera, especially in a service station where so many robberies do occur, then make sure it's working!! :banghead:

MOO

Sailor Bug
03-27-2012, 10:54 AM
The video time stamp was 37 minutes off, Vittie reminds the just. Time stamp showed 4:27 pm.

Court is being shown video of man entering variety store. Vittie says the video shows a man in white shirt + jeans entering and going to ATM

Showing the jury the two receipts from thte ATM. One, at 4:59, the transition did not go through. 32 seconds later, an $80 withdrawal did.

Court sees image of ATM receipts from that day

~n/t~
03-27-2012, 10:55 AM
Avery Moore ‏
Jury is now viewing a surveillance video from the Guelph gas station. #Rafferty

RaffertyLFP: Court is being shown video of man entering variety store. Vittie says the video shows a man in white shirt + jeans entering and going to ATM [via Twitter]

Kamille
03-27-2012, 11:00 AM
Avery Moore ‏
Jury is now viewing a surveillance video from the Guelph gas station. #Rafferty

RaffertyLFP: Court is being shown video of man entering variety store. Vittie says the video shows a man in white shirt + jeans entering and going to ATM [via Twitter]

I wonder if they ever found that white shirt? :waitasec:

And I guess it answers the question of who was driving the car at the Esso station in Woodstock before the abduction.

MOO

~n/t~
03-27-2012, 11:02 AM
I wonder if they ever found that white shirt? :waitasec:

Hope so!

Sailor Bug
03-27-2012, 11:04 AM
Court sees Rafferty's bank records from April 8th that confirm the ATM withdrawal

Showing Rafferty's banking records. Shows a withdrawal on $81.50 on April 8th. Rafferty had $114 dollars in his account at the time.

Det. Const. Vittie describes a document with two listed transactions from ATM. Same account. 1 attempt denied. Other went through.

Showing the Rafferty bank statement to the jury. Has the ATM withdrawal.

Transaction and account numbers on the receipt and bank statement link up.

Kamille
03-27-2012, 11:04 AM
Hope so!

It was supposed to have been put in the bag and disposed of, according to TLM. But I'm not sure how clear that video is going to be. MR likely had a lot of white shirts. It seems as though he only wore white, red and black from his photos. :waitasec:

MOO

Kamille
03-27-2012, 11:05 AM
Court sees Rafferty's bank records from April 8th that confirm the ATM withdrawal

Showing Rafferty's banking records. Shows a withdrawal on $81.50 on April 8th. Rafferty had $114 dollars in his account at the time.

I hope his Mom was paying him back for those percocets then. Was she a drug addict too? Because he was TLM's friend who didn't do drugs remember?

ETA: Or was that another lie? :wink:

MOO

~n/t~
03-27-2012, 11:06 AM
It was supposed to have been put in the bag and disposed of, according to TLM. But I'm not sure how clear that video is going to be. MR likely had a lot of white shirts. It seems as though he only wore white, red and black from his photos. :waitasec:

MOO

The one in red (blood) stains would be the one, if they found it. :moo:

~n/t~
03-27-2012, 11:06 AM
Avery Moore ‏
Det. Const. Vittie describes a document with two listed transactions from ATM. Same account. 1 attempt denied. Other went through. #Rafferty

Peekaboo10
03-27-2012, 11:15 AM
Tweets have slowed right down eh? Wonder why?

Sailor Bug
03-27-2012, 11:16 AM
Photo shows a man, who looks like Rafferty using an ABM on April 9th, 2009.

Court is seeing video surveillance from an ATM machine on April 9th in Woodstock Appears to be Rafferty

Video shows the same man sending a text message while making a withdrawal at a BMO in Woodstock. Matches Rafferty's bank statement.

Det. Const. Vittie identifies video surveillance from the morning of April 8th from a bank in Woodstock.

2nd video is of an ATM on Apr. 9th, 2009. Day after Tori disappeared. Time on video matches withdrawal on #Rafferty's transaction list.

2nd video is of an ATM on Apr. 9th, 2009. Day after Tori disappeared. Time on video matches withdrawal on #Rafferty's transaction list.

Showing a series of clips of a man using ABM on April 9th. Rafferty used a machine in Woodstock at 4:30, according to his statement

Morning break. Back in 20 minutes.

TopTop
03-27-2012, 11:19 AM
AM980.ca ‏ @AM980_Court

Video shows the same man sending a text message while making a withdrawal at a BMO in Woodstock. Matches Rafferty's bank statement.

antiquegirl
03-27-2012, 11:20 AM
Photo shows a man, who looks like Rafferty using an ABM on April 9th, 2009.

Court is seeing video surveillance from an ATM machine on April 9th in Woodstock Appears to be Rafferty

Video shows the same man sending a text message while making a withdrawal at a BMO in Woodstock. Matches Rafferty's bank statement.

WTH? Tori was abducted on the 8th! ABM used on the 9th????

ETA: Never mind. Tweets now cleared up that this was a different ABM in Woodstock the next day.

Sailor Bug
03-27-2012, 11:28 AM
Yes tweets are very slow which sometimes makes them repetative and confusing

I was confused with the dates as well antiquegirl

TopTop
03-27-2012, 11:30 AM
Morning break. Back in 20 minutes.

Kamille
03-27-2012, 11:36 AM
Where did the rest of his 80 dollars go? Maybe he needed some gas and a car wash the night before? And how much did he get out the next day? Did he get some money deposited? :waitasec:

MOO

antiquegirl
03-27-2012, 11:40 AM
You don't go for a drug buy without knowing how much it will cost. I wonder how much was spent on the Percocets at BA's. He obviously must have had enough cash to pay for them, but not enough for the Home Depot purchase. Thus, the need for the ABM after the visit to BA. So, they weren't prepared to buy that hammer and the garbage bags before they set out for Guelph, but there was enough money for the drugs.

JMO

robynhood
03-27-2012, 11:41 AM
....hmm I am wondering how much he paid for thos Percocet pills from BA?....anyone know?...interesting that he has been buying pills for a YEAR!!!!!...robynhood ....must have a very sick MOM...hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm!

antiquegirl
03-27-2012, 11:41 AM
Why wasn't BA asked by either the Crown or the defence if she saw or heard anything from the back seat of MTR's car? I find that pretty odd.

JMO

antiquegirl
03-27-2012, 11:43 AM
....hmm I am wondering how much he paid for thos oxy pills?....anyone know?...interesting that he has been buying pills for a YEAR!!!!!...robynhood ....must have a very sick MOM...hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm!

Percocets, not Oxys. If BA wasn't asked how much she was paid, there's no way to know.

JMO

paris_paris
03-27-2012, 11:45 AM
He had $114 in the bank, but he couldn't take out $100, he could only take out $80. Had he maxed his limit for the day?

April 10th is when GST cheques come out, but usually arrive earlier, and when direct deposited even earlier than that. (James had gone to pick up his GST cheque on April 8th).

Kamille
03-27-2012, 11:49 AM
So he was "dating" this BA woman, whom he met at work and was 12 years his senior. And she had a never ending supply of percocets too. How convenient.

Are we going to hear from anyone who knew him who wasn't involved in the illegal sale of prescription pain medication that he didn't "date"? :waitasec:


MOO

Sailor Bug
03-27-2012, 11:49 AM
Why wasn't BA asked by either the Crown or the defence if she saw or heard anything from the back seat of MTR's car? I find that pretty odd.

JMO

I was waiting for that question.
TLM stated Tori was under Rafferty's coat...I guess that's why Barbara only saw TLM...it was daytime, no reason for Barbara not to see a lil 8 year old abducted girl

...unless she was hidden

Kamille
03-27-2012, 11:51 AM
Why wasn't BA asked by either the Crown or the defence if she saw or heard anything from the back seat of MTR's car? I find that pretty odd.

JMO

The Crown's position is that Victoria was being hidden in the car, on the floor under a coat. Now why the defence wouldn't have tried to establish that she was just sitting in there, right up on the backseat as happy as a lark I have no idea. :waitasec:

MOO

Sailor Bug
03-27-2012, 11:51 AM
The jury is returning.

Court resumes with more testimony from Det.-Sgt. Vittie

Now showing the jury a photo of the Home Depot, taken from the Petro Canada.

Vittie describing where the black Honda was parked on April 8th. Showing the video

Video shows a car matching the description of Rafferty's pulling into the parking lot. Jury has seen this before. At 5:01:34, a man gets out

Court is seeing video of parking lot from Home Depot showing man getting out of dark car - walking toward gas station-variety store

Oldsoul2
03-27-2012, 11:53 AM
You don't go for a drug buy without knowing how much it will cost. I wonder how much was spent on the Percocets at BA's. He obviously must have had enough cash to pay for them, but not enough for the Home Depot purchase. Thus, the need for the ABM after the visit to BA. So, they weren't prepared to buy that hammer and the garbage bags before they set out for Guelph, but there was enough money for the drugs.

JMO

He knows how much it costs, he's bought from her before

Oldsoul2
03-27-2012, 11:55 AM
So he was "dating" this BA woman, whom he met at work and was 12 years his senior. And she had a never ending supply of percocets too. How convenient.

Are we going to hear from anyone who knew him who wasn't involved in the illegal sale of prescription pain medication that he didn't "date"? :waitasec:


MOO

Didn't he deny that he did drugs in the first place, I like the comment to LE about "bad people and drugs" what a joke

Alice Ramnit
03-27-2012, 11:56 AM
You don't go for a drug buy without knowing how much it will cost. I wonder how much was spent on the Percocets at BA's. He obviously must have had enough cash to pay for them, but not enough for the Home Depot purchase. Thus, the need for the ABM after the visit to BA. So, they weren't prepared to buy that hammer and the garbage bags before they set out for Guelph, but there was enough money for the drugs.

JMO

Unless they had discussed who was paying for what ahead of time?

Kamille
03-27-2012, 11:56 AM
AM980.ca

Now showing the jury a photo of the Home Depot, taken from the Petro Canada

AM980.ca

Vittie describing where the black Honda was parked on April 8th. Showing the video.

AM980.ca

Video shows a car matching the description of Rafferty's pulling into the parking lot. Jury has seen this before. At 5:01:34, a man gets out

AM980.ca

The man went towards the Tim Horton's/Ptero Canada location. Returns at 5:04:14. Gets back in the car.

~n/t~
03-27-2012, 11:57 AM
RaffertyLFP: Court resumes with more testimony from Det.-Sgt. Vittie [via Twitter]

~n/t~
03-27-2012, 11:58 AM
RaffertyLFP: Court is seeing video of parking lot from Home Depot showing man getting out of dark car - walking toward gas station-variety store [via Twitter]

Sailor Bug
03-27-2012, 11:59 AM
The Home Depot video shows the man getting back into his car about 4 minutes later

The man went towards the Tim Horton's/Ptero Canada location. Returns at 5:04:14. Gets back in the car.

The video next shows the car parking in the Home Depot lot - person exits passenger side and dons white jacket - hurries to store entrance

The car moves towards the entrance of the Home Depot. A woman gets out, puts on a white jacket, walks into the Home Depot.

At 5:05:39, the woman enters the Home Depot. At 5:13:13, the woman emerges, crashing a Home Depot bag. Vehicle moves towards her.

matou
03-27-2012, 12:00 PM
@AM980_Court (https://twitter.com/#%21/AM980_Court)

(https://twitter.com/#%21/AM980_Court/status/184670348921405440)Video shows a car matching the description of Rafferty's pulling into the parking lot. Jury has seen this before. At 5:01:34, a man gets out

@AM980_Court (https://twitter.com/#%21/AM980_Court)


(https://twitter.com/#%21/AM980_Court/status/184670736693198848)The man went towards the Tim Horton's/Ptero Canada location. Returns at 5:04:14. Gets back in the car.

matou
03-27-2012, 12:00 PM
‏ @RaffertyLFP (https://twitter.com/#%21/RaffertyLFP)

(https://twitter.com/#%21/RaffertyLFP/status/184670828586213376)The Home Depot video shows the man getting back into his car about 4 minutes later

matou
03-27-2012, 12:01 PM
@AM980_Court (https://twitter.com/#%21/AM980_Court)

(https://twitter.com/#%21/AM980_Court/status/184671279398400000)The car moves towards the entrance of the Home Depot. A woman gets out, puts on a white jacket, walks into the Home Depot.

matou
03-27-2012, 12:04 PM
@RaffertyLFP (https://twitter.com/#%21/RaffertyLFP)

(https://twitter.com/#%21/RaffertyLFP/status/184671513960660993)The video next shows the car parking in the Home Depot lot - person exits passenger side and dons white jacket - hurries to store entrance

matou
03-27-2012, 12:05 PM
@AM980_Court (https://twitter.com/#%21/AM980_Court)

(https://twitter.com/#%21/AM980_Court/status/184672007215005696)At 5:05:39, the woman enters the Home Depot. At 5:13:13, the woman emerges, crashing a Home Depot bag. Vehicle moves towards her.

*carrying a bag. JMO

Sailor Bug
03-27-2012, 12:06 PM
Seven minutes later a female in white coat exits Home Depot carrying baf she puts bag on trunk

The woman puts the items in the trunk, which gets opened remotely, then gets in the car. Car leaves the parking lot at 5:14:20.

The car went east bound, onto Woodlawn Road, after leaving the parking lot.

Vittie says Det-Cst Kelly was certain he spotted Terri-Lynne McClintic on the Home Depot security camera when they reviewed the tape

matou
03-27-2012, 12:07 PM
@AM980_Court (https://twitter.com/#%21/AM980_Court)

(https://twitter.com/#%21/AM980_Court/status/184672693629624320)The woman puts the items in the trunk, which gets opened remotely, then gets in the car. Car leaves the parking lot at 5:14:20.

matou
03-27-2012, 12:08 PM
‏ @AM980_Court (https://twitter.com/#%21/AM980_Court)

(https://twitter.com/#%21/AM980_Court/status/184672908793217024)The car went east bound, onto Woodlawn Road, after leaving the parking lot.

matou
03-27-2012, 12:11 PM
@AM980_Court (https://twitter.com/#%21/AM980_Court)

(https://twitter.com/#%21/AM980_Court/status/184673771767087104)Vittie says Det-Cst Kelly was certain he spotted Terri-Lynne McClintic on the Home Depot security camera when they reviewed the tape.

antiquegirl
03-27-2012, 12:12 PM
He knows how much it costs, he's bought from her before

Probably. My point was that if they knew they'd be making further purchases, he would have brought enough money with him to buy both the drugs and the Home Depot items.

JMO

Sailor Bug
03-27-2012, 12:13 PM
Court sees interior video of Home Depot appearing to show Terri-Lynne McClintic entering store

Vittie says when watching video Det. Con. Kelly (already testified) pointed out a woman and said he was sure it was McClintic

Showing the video from inside the Home Depot. Entering at 5:05:45 pm is McClintic.

Court sees McClintic walking down aisle of Home Depot then goes to self-checkout area at 5:11 p.m.

Kelly was certain it was McClintic at the 5:11:25 mark of the video, Vittie says.

Wondergirl
03-27-2012, 12:13 PM
The Crown's position is that Victoria was being hidden in the car, on the floor under a coat. Now why the defence wouldn't have tried to establish that she was just sitting in there, right up on the backseat as happy as a lark I have no idea. :waitasec:

MOO

BBM: Good point.

matou
03-27-2012, 12:14 PM
@AM980_Court (https://twitter.com/#%21/AM980_Court)

(https://twitter.com/#%21/AM980_Court/status/184674248491675648)Showing the video from inside the Home Depot. Entering at 5:05:45 pm is McClintic.

matou
03-27-2012, 12:15 PM
‏ @AM980_Court (https://twitter.com/#%21/AM980_Court)

(https://twitter.com/#%21/AM980_Court/status/184674856686731265)Kelly was certain it was McClintic at the 5:11:25 mark of the video, Vittie says.

Wondergirl
03-27-2012, 12:16 PM
Probably. My point was that if they knew they'd be making further purchases, he would have brought enough money with him to buy both the drugs and the Home Depot items.

JMO

Or perhaps BA upped the price, or MTR thought TLM had money, but, she did not, or one of them was going to use debit, but, decided against it (traceable).

Sailor Bug
03-27-2012, 12:16 PM
Home Depot video shows the woman Det. Con. Kelly said was McClintic clearly walking towards camera. Moves to self-checkout.

Court sees video of McClintic buying hammer at self-checkout - pays with cash

McClintic is shown buying a hammer and garbage bags at 5:11:48. She paid cash.

McClintic leaves at 5:12:39, with the items.

Vittie obtained receipt from Home Depot records showing purchase of garbage bags and hammer at that self-checkout

Police got a purchase receipt from the self check out McClintic used. Vittie got a box of the same garbage bags. Hammer was out of stock

matou
03-27-2012, 12:17 PM
‏ @AM980_Court (https://twitter.com/#%21/AM980_Court)

(https://twitter.com/#%21/AM980_Court/status/184675152661987332)McClintic is shown buying a hammer and garbage bags at 5:11:48. She paid cash.

@RaffertyLFP (https://twitter.com/#%21/RaffertyLFP)


(https://twitter.com/#%21/RaffertyLFP/status/184675138380369920)Court sees video of McClintic buying hammer at self-checkout - pays with cash

matou
03-27-2012, 12:18 PM
@AM980_Court (https://twitter.com/#%21/AM980_Court)

(https://twitter.com/#%21/AM980_Court/status/184675728686718976)McClintic leaves at 5:12:39, with the items.

Wondergirl
03-27-2012, 12:20 PM
So, did MTR "search" for "that little girl", as he told BA he was going to?


Armstrong says Rafferty looked "haggard" when he visited her a few days later, and told her he was going to help in the search for the missing girl.


Read more: http://www.ctv.ca/CTVNews/Canada/20120327/michael-rafferty-tori-stafford-murder-trial-continues-120327/#ixzz1qKo5yDIM

matou
03-27-2012, 12:21 PM
@RaffertyLFP (https://twitter.com/#%21/RaffertyLFP)

(https://twitter.com/#%21/RaffertyLFP/status/184676285535105024)Vittie obtained receipt from Home Depot records showing purchase of garbage bags and hammer at that self-checkout

matou
03-27-2012, 12:22 PM
@AM980_Court (https://twitter.com/#%21/AM980_Court)

(https://twitter.com/#%21/AM980_Court/status/184676420344225794)Police got a purchase receipt from the self check out McClintic used. Vittie got a box of the same garbage bags. Hammer was out of stock

Wondergirl
03-27-2012, 12:22 PM
Court hears from Rafferty's drug dealer


A friend of Michael Rafferty told his murder trial about selling him drugs on the day Victoria Stafford disappeared.

http://www.lfpress.com/news/london/raffertytrial/2012/03/27/19555111.html

Sailor Bug
03-27-2012, 12:23 PM
Showing the jury the aisle the bags were purchased from.

Court is show photos of shelf where McClintic picked up garbage bags

Vittie says after watching the videos he bought the same garbage bags purchased and called another store to reserve the same kind of hammer.

RaffertyLFP: Court sees replica of receipt given to McClintic at Home Depot cost for hammer and garbage bags $27.54 - paid for with $40

Showing the jury the transaction record from McClintic's purchase. Garbage bags cost $5.39, hammer cost $18.98.

McClintic paid $40 in cash. Got $12.96 in change.

matou
03-27-2012, 12:23 PM
[/URL][URL="https://twitter.com/#%21/AM980_Court"]@AM980_Court (https://twitter.com/#%21/AM980_Court)

(https://twitter.com/#%21/AM980_Court/status/184676605908619264)Showing the jury the aisle the bags were purchased from.

Wondergirl
03-27-2012, 12:25 PM
Rafferty appeared ‘super stressed’

Armstrong met with Rafferty again several days and he appeared to be “haggard.” She also said he had a cold sore, which she said was an indication he was “super stressed.”

“He said that he hadn’t been eating, he hadn’t been sleeping,” she said.
Rafferty discussed Tori’s disappearance with her and said he was going to help look for the girl.

Armstrong also testified that Rafferty told her had seen the surveillance video and recognized the woman in the video, though she had since been arrested.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/story/2012/03/27/stafford-rafferty-trial-tuesday.html

matou
03-27-2012, 12:26 PM
@AM980_Court (https://twitter.com/#%21/AM980_Court)

(https://twitter.com/#%21/AM980_Court/status/184677424787755010)Showing the jury the transaction record from McClintic's purchase. Garbage bags cost $5.39, hammer cost $18.98.

matou
03-27-2012, 12:27 PM
Cheap garbage bags. JMO

matou
03-27-2012, 12:27 PM
@RaffertyLFP (https://twitter.com/#%21/RaffertyLFP)

(https://twitter.com/#%21/RaffertyLFP/status/184677593344245760)Court sees replica of receipt given to McClintic at Home Depot cost for hammer and garbage bags $27.54 - paid for with $40 cash

Sailor Bug
03-27-2012, 12:28 PM
pretty expensive hammer and bags

jmo

matou
03-27-2012, 12:28 PM
@AM980_Court (https://twitter.com/#%21/AM980_Court)

(https://twitter.com/#%21/AM980_Court/status/184677652651708416)McClintic paid $40 in cash. Got $12.96 in change.

Oldsoul2
03-27-2012, 12:28 PM
Probably. My point was that if they knew they'd be making further purchases, he would have brought enough money with him to buy both the drugs and the Home Depot items.

JMO

Who stops for drugs, money, home depot, tea etc in the middle of an abduction? Don't think he's too much of a planner

matou
03-27-2012, 12:29 PM
AM980_Court (https://twitter.com/#%21/AM980_Court)

(https://twitter.com/#%21/AM980_Court/status/184678233277607937)Vittie showing the garbage bags he purchased on May 20th, 2009. Reference number is identical. Price went up 30 cents.

Sailor Bug
03-27-2012, 12:29 PM
Vittie showing the garbage bags he purchased on May 20th, 2009. Reference number is identical. Price went up 30 cents.

Vittie matches SKU for the garbage bags he bought to the one he says McClintic purchased. Photo of Husky green "Recycling Bags

Court shown same type of hammer that McClintic bought, Vittie said he bought it at another store because Guelph Home Depot out of stock

Showing the hammer. Vittie had to get the exact same one from the Cambridge Home Depot. Guelph was sold out. Skew number the same for both.

Rafferty with little reaction so far this morning. Watching closely.

Wondergirl
03-27-2012, 12:29 PM
Linda Nguyen ‏

Armstrong sold #Rafferty (https://twitter.com/#!/search/%23Rafferty) a dozen more pills after April 8. He told her he was going to help look for #ToriStafford (https://twitter.com/#!/search/%23ToriStafford) and McC had been arrested

crazyladi
03-27-2012, 12:31 PM
pretty expensive hammer and bags

jmo

I dont think she thought about the prices that much just grabbed them, paid and threw them in the car.

matou
03-27-2012, 12:31 PM
Where did the rest of his 80 dollars go? Maybe he needed some gas and a car wash the night before? And how much did he get out the next day? Did he get some money deposited? :waitasec:

MOO

Car wash? JMO

Wondergirl
03-27-2012, 12:32 PM
Steven D'Souza ‏ @cbcsteve

Describing their relationship, Armstrong says of #Rafferty (https://twitter.com/#!/search/%23Rafferty): “I could pretty much tell him anything, it was like girl talk” #sl (https://twitter.com/#!/search/%23sl)

matou
03-27-2012, 12:33 PM
@RaffertyLFP (https://twitter.com/#%21/RaffertyLFP)

(https://twitter.com/#%21/RaffertyLFP/status/184679319682039810)Court shown same type of hammer that McClintic bought, Vittie said he bought it at another store because Guelph Home Depot out of stock

Wondergirl
03-27-2012, 12:33 PM
Steven D'Souza ‏ @cbcsteve

Back in London for the #Rafferty (https://twitter.com/#!/search/%23Rafferty) trial. Significantly smaller media/public presence this week. Just 3 people in overflow room #sl (https://twitter.com/#!/search/%23sl)

matou
03-27-2012, 12:33 PM
‏ @AM980_Court (https://twitter.com/#%21/AM980_Court)

(https://twitter.com/#%21/AM980_Court/status/184679471977201664)Rafferty with little reaction so far this morning. Watching closely.

Kittymama
03-27-2012, 12:34 PM
Does it make me a terrible person if hearing that he was "super-stressed" and haggard makes me feel almost unspeakably happy?

Sailor Bug
03-27-2012, 12:36 PM
Steven D'Souza ‏ @cbcsteve

Describing their relationship, Armstrong says of #Rafferty (https://twitter.com/#!/search/%23Rafferty): “I could pretty much tell him anything, it was like girl talk” #sl (https://twitter.com/#!/search/%23sl)

:floorlaugh: why am I not surprised :what:

Sailor Bug
03-27-2012, 12:36 PM
Carnegie finished with his questions. Derstine now cross examining

RaffertyLFP: Derstine begins cross-examination of Vittie

Derstine asks for the interior video to be played again.

RaffertyLFP: Derstine suggest that McClintic does not look upset or hesitant as she walks thru store - Vittie agrees

matou
03-27-2012, 12:37 PM
@AM980_Court (https://twitter.com/#%21/AM980_Court)

(https://twitter.com/#%21/AM980_Court/status/184680149797715968)Carnegie finished with his questions. Derstine now cross examining.

matou
03-27-2012, 12:38 PM
@AM980_Court (https://twitter.com/#%21/AM980_Court)

(https://twitter.com/#%21/AM980_Court/status/184680364491546624)Derstine asks for the interior video to be played again.

matou
03-27-2012, 12:38 PM
The TLM video?? Pffttttt....JMO

matou
03-27-2012, 12:39 PM
@RaffertyLFP (https://twitter.com/#%21/RaffertyLFP)

(https://twitter.com/#%21/RaffertyLFP/status/184680856793780224)Derstine suggest that McClintic does not look upset or hesitant as she walks thru store - Vittie agrees

Wondergirl
03-27-2012, 12:40 PM
So, if Barbara Armstrong had been selling MTR drugs a "couple times a month" for a year, and she "met with him several days later" after April 8, 2009, was that the day that she sold him "a dozen more pills"?

If so, did that follow his "usual" pattern of purchases (if there was a pattern?)

Would MTR "normally" be back for more drugs within a few days of his last purchase, or was that an abnormality?

ETA: Here is the answer.

Woaaa.

He totally broke his pattern.

A dozen more times????

Is it a dozen pills and/or a dozen more occasions??? Either way, woaa.



Armstrong testified she sold Rafferty more painkillers a few days later and met with him on a dozen more occasions until his arrest on May 19, 2009.


Read more: http://www.canada.com/news/Stafford+Trial+Michael+Rafferty+told+drug+dealer+p lanned+search+Tori/6365316/story.html#ixzz1qKtZq3qK

crazyladi
03-27-2012, 12:40 PM
He is just trying to put it all on TLM. That's fine, he will have to come up with something else the further we get into this. TLM cant be blamed for everything.

matou
03-27-2012, 12:40 PM
‏ @AM980_Court (https://twitter.com/#%21/AM980_Court)

(https://twitter.com/#%21/AM980_Court/status/184681112168169472)No more questions for Vittie. We're on break until 2:10.

Bye Bye till later. xo

matou
03-27-2012, 12:42 PM
Rafferty KNEW who was on the video with Tori and DIDN'T call police? WHY? JMO

Sailor Bug
03-27-2012, 12:42 PM
Derstine asks if there are obvious signs of hesitation on McClintic's part. Vittie says no. Also agrees she's not upset emotionally.



court recess until 2:10 pm

Kittymama
03-27-2012, 12:43 PM
Geez they take a lot of breaks! :waiting:

And just because we have time... I hate this smiley with every fibre of my being: :rocker:

I love this one, though. It's adorable: :offtobed:

Wondergirl
03-27-2012, 12:46 PM
12:42
http://www.coveritlive.com/templates/coveritlive/images/spacer.gifMike Knoll:

@Guest - Friday he said he wouldn't be talking to reporters today so we won't be staffing it.
Tuesday March 27, 2012 12:42 Mike Knoll

12:41
http://www.coveritlive.com/templates/coveritlive/images/spacer.gif[Comment From Guest Guest : ]

is Rodney talking to reporters today

Sailor Bug
03-27-2012, 12:46 PM
Makes for a loooong day when we're not getting alot of varied tweets

~n/t~
03-27-2012, 12:46 PM
Derstine asks if there are obvious signs of hesitation on McClintic's part. Vittie says no. Also agrees she's not upset emotionally.



court recess until 2:10 pm

Why would she be upset? :waitasec:

Wondergirl
03-27-2012, 12:48 PM
It's like Linda is reading here at Websleuths. :)

Thanks, Linda!

Linda Nguyen ‏ @LindaNguyenPN



Correction: Armstrong sold #Rafferty (https://twitter.com/#!/search/%23Rafferty) pills on a a dozen other occasions. It's unclear how many pills were actually sold.



Comment: It sure sounds like Rafferty broke his "pattern" of purchases.

~n/t~
03-27-2012, 12:49 PM
Makes for a loooong day when we're not getting alot of varied tweets

I was following a few but they were so behind, I gave up.

Adrian Morrow from the Globe & Mail isn't there today. His colleague is but admits he hasn't been tweeting long.

~n/t~
03-27-2012, 12:51 PM
12:43
Mike Knoll: @Steve and Jessica - it is unknown if Rafferty will testify.
12:43
Comment From Steve
Will Rafferty take the stand??
12:43
Comment From Jessica Hoover
is Michael Rafferty gonna testify yet?



Poor Mike :floorlaugh:

antiquegirl
03-27-2012, 12:51 PM
The Crown's position is that Victoria was being hidden in the car, on the floor under a coat. Now why the defence wouldn't have tried to establish that she was just sitting in there, right up on the backseat as happy as a lark I have no idea. :waitasec:

MOO

Now, this is something I've had a problem with ever since the trial began. By all accounts from her own family, Tori was feisty, energetic, restless, and somewhat rebellious. No matter how scared she was, I just can't imagine her meekly lying there under a coat during all those stops they made. Her personality suggests that she should have been squirming, crying, protesting, etc. Yet, no one noticed anything - not BA, not anyone near the car at Home Depot, nor any other drivers passing them on the road during the 2 1/2 hours she was supposed to be in that car. I still can't believe that she wasn't drugged at some point before they reached their destination in Mt. Forest.

JMO

~n/t~
03-27-2012, 12:54 PM
What did MR think TLM was going to do with a hammer and garbage bags?

I have to admit when it was testified that MR was a butcher, I felt sick.

crazyladi
03-27-2012, 12:54 PM
Now, this is something I've had a problem with ever since the trial began. By all accounts from her own family, Tori was feisty, energetic, restless, and somewhat rebellious. No matter how scared she was, I just can't imagine her meekly lying there under a coat during all those stops they made. Her personality suggests that she should have been squirming, crying, protesting, etc. Yet, no one noticed anything - not BA, not anyone near the car at Home Depot, nor any other drivers passing them on the road during the 2 1/2 hours she was supposed to be in that car. I still can't believe that she wasn't drugged at some point before they reached their destination in Mt. Forest.

JMO

I am just throwing this out there because I was thinking the same thing. Was she even in the car at this time?????? If so what made her so quite and still?

Alice Ramnit
03-27-2012, 12:54 PM
You don't go for a drug buy without knowing how much it will cost. I wonder how much was spent on the Percocets at BA's. He obviously must have had enough cash to pay for them, but not enough for the Home Depot purchase. Thus, the need for the ABM after the visit to BA. So, they weren't prepared to buy that hammer and the garbage bags before they set out for Guelph, but there was enough money for the drugs.

JMO

According to this document Percocets are about $5 a pill. If he only bought 2 pills that would have left pleanty left over for items at the Home Depot and some gas.

crazyladi
03-27-2012, 12:55 PM
Its like they were doing all this running around and carrying on and what we have heard it just sounds like she wasnt even in the car. Is there proof that she was 100% in the car when they went to home depot, tim hortons etc?

Alethea Dice
03-27-2012, 12:56 PM
Why would she be upset? :waitasec:

Because, according to her, she's being forced to buy the tools to murder the child she was forced to kidnap.

~n/t~
03-27-2012, 12:57 PM
Maybe she was unconscious or already dead! Is that why he had to get rid of the backseat? Was decomp smell seeping through that back seat?

Ugh.

~n/t~
03-27-2012, 12:58 PM
Because, according to her, she's being forced to buy the tools to murder the child she was forced to kidnap.

Nobody was putting a gun to her head. Besides, wasn't Tori a "gift"?

~n/t~
03-27-2012, 12:59 PM
Why isn't the drug dealer in jail? Or is she?:waitasec:

~n/t~
03-27-2012, 01:00 PM
Its like they were doing all this running around and carrying on and what we have heard it just sounds like she wasnt even in the car. Is there proof that she was 100% in the car when they went to home depot, tim hortons etc?

TLM said she was.

swedie
03-27-2012, 01:02 PM
Showing the jury the aisle the bags were purchased from.

Court is show photos of shelf where McClintic picked up garbage bags

Vittie says after watching the videos he bought the same garbage bags purchased and called another store to reserve the same kind of hammer.

RaffertyLFP: Court sees replica of receipt given to McClintic at Home Depot cost for hammer and garbage bags $27.54 - paid for with $40

Showing the jury the transaction record from McClintic's purchase. Garbage bags cost $5.39, hammer cost $18.98.

McClintic paid $40 in cash. Got $12.96 in change.

I think we can surmise who paid for what, but in the big picture, Tori was murdered and they acted together. Both caught on video in Guelph. Besides who knows how much money TLM or MR had on their person before visiting ATM. Just a thought and MOO

Alethea Dice
03-27-2012, 01:04 PM
Nobody was putting a gun to her head. Besides, wasn't Tori a "gift"?

I think that's what they're trying to show. That she wasn't forced, but instead had offered VS as a "gift".

Sailor Bug
03-27-2012, 01:05 PM
So, if Barbara Armstrong had been selling MTR drugs a "couple times a month" for a year, and she "met with him several days later" after April 8, 2009, was that the day that she sold him "a dozen more pills"?

If so, did that follow his "usual" pattern of purchases (if there was a pattern?)

Would MTR "normally" be back for more drugs within a few days of his last purchase, or was that an abnormality?

ETA: Here is the answer.

Woaaa.

He totally broke his pattern.


A dozen more times????

Is it a dozen pills and/or a dozen more occasions??? Either way, woaa.

You are totally right Wondergirl!! :what:
Barbara went from selling Rafferty pills a few times a month
to a dozen more occasions until his arrest on May 19, 2009
so from June 8th to May 19th Rafferty purchased pills from her more than 12 times

WOW!!!

Why the heck didn't the Crown make Rafferty's drug use escalation glaringly clear to the jury

http://www.canada.com/news/Stafford+Trial+Michael+Rafferty+told+drug+dealer+p lanned+search+Tori/6365316/story.html#ixzz1qKtZq3qK

Armstrong considered Rafferty, 31, a "confidante" and sold him pills a few times a month for more than a year

Armstrong testified she sold Rafferty more painkillers a few days later and met with him on a dozen more occasions until his arrest on May 19, 2009.

Oldsoul2
03-27-2012, 01:05 PM
I am just throwing this out there because I was thinking the same thing. Was she even in the car at this time?????? If so what made her so quite and still?

My guess is they gave her a percocet, I had an impacted wisdom tooth and this is what the dentist gave me, knocked me out. BTW, if the mother had back problems that required pain killers her doctor could have prescribed those, in Canada, we have medicare, you don't need to buy them off the street at 5 times the price unless there for recreational use. Also, really don't think a petrified child is going to start screaming, we don't know what he/she said to her in that car.

swedie
03-27-2012, 01:06 PM
Who stops for drugs, money, home depot, tea etc in the middle of an abduction? Don't think he's too much of a planner

MR and TLM. Moreso MR, he was the engine, I mean driver. :moo:

Oldsoul2
03-27-2012, 01:12 PM
You are totally right Wondergirl!! :what:
Barbara went from selling Rafferty pills a few times a month
to a dozen more occasions until his arrest on May 19, 2009
so from June 8th to May 19th Rafferty purchased pills fro her more than 12 times

Why the heck didn't the Crown make Rafferty's drug use escalation glaringly clear to the jury

http://www.canada.com/news/Stafford+Trial+Michael+Rafferty+told+drug+dealer+p lanned+search+Tori/6365316/story.html#ixzz1qKtZq3qK

Armstrong considered Rafferty, 31, a "confidante" and sold him pills a few times a month for more than a year

Armstrong testified she sold Rafferty more painkillers a few days later and met with him on a dozen more occasions until his arrest on May 19, 2009.


He needed alot of drugs to push that conscience back in. Still don't get where the defense is going with this. The jury sees a girl who microwaved her dog, beat her mother, listened to thoughts of violent killing etc...per say WHY WOULD SHE BE NERVOUS exactly??

swedie
03-27-2012, 01:12 PM
‏ @AM980_Court (https://twitter.com/#%21/AM980_Court)

(https://twitter.com/#%21/AM980_Court/status/184679471977201664)Rafferty with little reaction so far this morning. Watching closely.


The heat is on! Wonder if he's about to cave and plead guilty. Probably not. The trial gets him out of prison for a bit. I don't think he's footing the bill so what the heck. Just :moo:

Juris_Prudence
03-27-2012, 01:13 PM
You don't go for a drug buy without knowing how much it will cost. I wonder how much was spent on the Percocets at BA's. He obviously must have had enough cash to pay for them, but not enough for the Home Depot purchase. Thus, the need for the ABM after the visit to BA. So, they weren't prepared to buy that hammer and the garbage bags before they set out for Guelph, but there was enough money for the drugs.

JMO

I thought I heard on the radio this morning (was it 680 news?) that he paid 2$ a pill? Not sure now. Does anyone happen to know? Sorry if this was addressed already. You know how it is when you're trying to catch up on the fly. :twocents:

Kamille
03-27-2012, 01:15 PM
Probably. My point was that if they knew they'd be making further purchases, he would have brought enough money with him to buy both the drugs and the Home Depot items.

JMO

Since this was a random abduction IMO, while they may have had a plan to try this, they could not have known for sure that they would be successful in abducting a child on that day. This may not have been the first time that they tried. If it was, they were both probably surprised how easy it was on the first try. And I doubt the plan was ever thought through as to what to do with the victim once she was sexually assaulted. That part of the plan was developed on the way out of town to the secluded area not far from where MR had lived at one point in his teen years IMO.

If it was a planned abduction to take Victoria for a drug debt that day then TLM would likely have had a weapon with her because she would have known that her plan was to abduct her and kill her....for revenge.

On a drug debt that didn't exist IMO.

MOO

Sailor Bug
03-27-2012, 01:16 PM
My guess is they gave her a percocet, I had an impacted wisdom tooth and this is what the dentist gave me, knocked me out. BTW, if the mother had back problems that required pain killers her doctor could have prescribed those, in Canada, we have medicare, you don't need to buy them off the street at 5 times the price unless there for recreational use. Also, really don't think a petrified child is going to start screaming, we don't know what he/she said to her in that car.

It will certainly be interesting if Rafferty's Mother gets on the stand and clears this drug part up.

I don't believe Rafferty purchased drugs ----->for her{his Mother}

He appears such a coward blaming his Mother for the pills for his own drug habit

jmo

swedie
03-27-2012, 01:16 PM
So, if Barbara Armstrong had been selling MTR drugs a "couple times a month" for a year, and she "met with him several days later" after April 8, 2009, was that the day that she sold him "a dozen more pills"?

If so, did that follow his "usual" pattern of purchases (if there was a pattern?)

Would MTR "normally" be back for more drugs within a few days of his last purchase, or was that an abnormality?

ETA: Here is the answer.

Woaaa.

He totally broke his pattern.

A dozen more times????

Is it a dozen pills and/or a dozen more occasions??? Either way, woaa.

Maybe MR's momma was real sick during this period and needed more percs? ;)

Kamille
03-27-2012, 01:18 PM
Who stops for drugs, money, home depot, tea etc in the middle of an abduction? Don't think he's too much of a planner

Someone who's trying to establish an alibi with his girlfriend for where they were the day a little girl from Woodstock went missing? Well not the Home Depot part. That was a necessary stop apparently. :(

MOO

kmclaren
03-27-2012, 01:21 PM
Its like they were doing all this running around and carrying on and what we have heard it just sounds like she wasnt even in the car. Is there proof that she was 100% in the car when they went to home depot, tim hortons etc?

I don't know if there's any "proof" but where else could Tori have been? This is why I partly believe TLM's claims that she be-friended Tori and that helped keep Tori from screaming, etc. Plus I think a few nasty, loud words from MR would be scary and she may have just hidden under the coat from fear. Also, TLM testified that once they were on the highway, Tori was sitting up in the back... jmo but based on my own daughter (exact same age as Tori) I can see her being afraid and once confined in the car, perhaps not screaming, trying to escape, etc. and trying to be "good" until it was over :(

Kamille
03-27-2012, 01:23 PM
It's like Linda is reading here at Websleuths. :)

Thanks, Linda!

Linda Nguyen ‏ @LindaNguyenPN



Correction: Armstrong sold #Rafferty (https://twitter.com/#!/search/%23Rafferty) pills on a a dozen other occasions. It's unclear how many pills were actually sold.



Comment: It sure sounds like Rafferty broke his "pattern" of purchases.

Well he didn't have TLM around to supply him at that point. His mother must have been in a lot of pain. :wink:

MOO

Oldsoul2
03-27-2012, 01:24 PM
The alibi he's trying to established includes a drug run? I would have liked to hear him say to LE, I have no idea, I wasn't around, shooting around town with my girlfriend, getting tea, and buying drugs.

tygomuk
03-27-2012, 01:24 PM
Ya'll think MTR will put on a defense or just rest when prosecution is done? MOO I think they'll rest.

Kamille
03-27-2012, 01:26 PM
Now, this is something I've had a problem with ever since the trial began. By all accounts from her own family, Tori was feisty, energetic, restless, and somewhat rebellious. No matter how scared she was, I just can't imagine her meekly lying there under a coat during all those stops they made. Her personality suggests that she should have been squirming, crying, protesting, etc. Yet, no one noticed anything - not BA, not anyone near the car at Home Depot, nor any other drivers passing them on the road during the 2 1/2 hours she was supposed to be in that car. I still can't believe that she wasn't drugged at some point before they reached their destination in Mt. Forest.

JMO

Or maybe when you've got a strange man yelling at you and threatening you to stay down and stay quiet, as an 8 yr old child you comply? Because you are scared? And these are adults, well one adult anyway, telling you what you have to do..or else?

MOO

Oldsoul2
03-27-2012, 01:27 PM
Ya'll think MTR will put on a defense or just rest when prosecution is done? MOO I think they'll rest.

He's more cowardly than TLM, my guess is he isn't testifying.

kmclaren
03-27-2012, 01:30 PM
Armstrong says #Rafferty visited her home in Guelph about a dozen times between Apr. 8th and his arrest on May 19th. Also texted.

RaffertyLFP: Armstrong said Rafferty told her that "a friend of a friends daughter was missing" and that he going to help look for her

Armstrong saw Rafferty after April 8th. He was "stressed out". Looked worn down. He said a friend of a friend's daughter had gone missing

Armstrongs says #Rafferty told her on one visit that a friend of a friends daughter went missing and he was going to help look for her

That 1st tweet bbm, is worrisome. So he went out to that area every 3 or 4 days? How far is her house from the crime scene? Plenty of time to retrieve his shoes or other incriminating evidence, jmo...

swedie
03-27-2012, 01:30 PM
Now, this is something I've had a problem with ever since the trial began. By all accounts from her own family, Tori was feisty, energetic, restless, and somewhat rebellious. No matter how scared she was, I just can't imagine her meekly lying there under a coat during all those stops they made. Her personality suggests that she should have been squirming, crying, protesting, etc. Yet, no one noticed anything - not BA, not anyone near the car at Home Depot, nor any other drivers passing them on the road during the 2 1/2 hours she was supposed to be in that car. I still can't believe that she wasn't drugged at some point before they reached their destination in Mt. Forest.

JMO

Maybe she was drugged. Something we may never know. Marie F C and Jessica L were also feisty. Did that stop RW from torturing them for hours and no one heard anything? Not even RW's next door neighbour Larry. When your an innocent eight year old and you have someone promising you they are going to take you home soon, there was hope for Tori. Who knows what they did to her along the drive to Guelph to silence her. The odd hit maybe, lots of threats? Did MR show her his blue knife? Not hard to imagine or believe in my honest opinion. I don't believe anyone knows how they would react in a situation where you're taken hostage. These where two grown adults over a tiny eight year old. HTH. And :moo:

Kamille
03-27-2012, 01:31 PM
My guess is they gave her a percocet, I had an impacted wisdom tooth and this is what the dentist gave me, knocked me out. BTW, if the mother had back problems that required pain killers her doctor could have prescribed those, in Canada, we have medicare, you don't need to buy them off the street at 5 times the price unless there for recreational use. Also, really don't think a petrified child is going to start screaming, we don't know what he/she said to her in that car.

I think they could at least have gotten some toxicology reports from the remains so I guess we'll find out if there were any drugs in Victoria's system?

MOO

Sailor Bug
03-27-2012, 01:32 PM
He needed alot of drugs to push that conscience back in. Still don't get where the defense is going with this. The jury sees a girl who microwaved her dog, beat her mother, listened to thoughts of violent killing etc...per say WHY WOULD SHE BE NERVOUS exactly??

bbm
:floorlaugh:

Juris_Prudence
03-27-2012, 01:33 PM
Why would she be upset? :waitasec:

Well I would think that given TLM's testimony last week that it was MR's idea to kidnap a child, and given she testified that he told her in the car that they couldn't send her home and could not keep her that she might be hesitant or upset or otherwise emotional because she would be walking through the store, making these purchases, knowing she had been directed to buy the murder weapon and concealment items, and knowing she was following through in doing so.

At the same time though, she might not have been at all upset or emotional because as we heard last week, she had written the graphic letters well before this day, which outlined her apparent desire to take, torture and murder someone.

If it had been truly all his idea, if she truly was thinking she was going to protect that child, then I imagine she'd have been somewhat distressed. I think that might be what Mr. Derstine was alluding to.

:moo:

Oldsoul2
03-27-2012, 01:35 PM
I think they could at least have gotten some toxicology reports from the remains so I guess we'll find out if there were any drugs in Victoria's system?

MOO

Good point Kamille! Along with whether they found semen or not too. Can't wait for the forensics.

Sailor Bug
03-27-2012, 01:36 PM
That 1st tweet bbm, is worrisome. So he went out to that area every 3 or days? How far is her house from the crime scene? Plenty of time to retrieve his shoes or other incriminating evidence, jmo...

kmclaren THANK YOU!!!! BRILLIANT!!!

Oh my gosh...this opens up what some of us believe

that Rafferty was back in the area after the murder of lil Tori

that Rafferty went back and removed items of evidence

HE was back in the area more than 12 times buying drugs from Barbara

WOW!!!

Oldsoul2
03-27-2012, 01:38 PM
Well I would think that given TLM's testimony last week that it was MR's idea to kidnap a child, and given she testified that he told her in the car that they couldn't send her home and could not keep her that she might be hesitant or upset or otherwise emotional because she would be walking through the store, making these purchases, knowing she had been directed to buy the murder weapon and concealment items, and knowing she was following through in doing so.

At the same time though, she might not have been at all upset or emotional because as we heard last week, she had written the graphic letters well before this day, which outlined her apparent desire to take, torture and murder someone.

If it had been truly all his idea, if she truly was thinking she was going to protect that child, then I imagine she'd have been somewhat distressed. I think that might be what Mr. Derstine was alluding to.

:moo:

She was high as a kite? She also testified to that. I'm surprised considering how many pills she popped she knew she was in Home Depot.

Kamille
03-27-2012, 01:39 PM
The alibi he's trying to established includes a drug run? I would have liked to hear him say to LE, I have no idea, I wasn't around, shooting around town with my girlfriend, getting tea, and buying drugs.

No BA was an old friend from work remember? He just dropped in to say hello would have been his story if anyone had asked him where he was that day. It's not like she was going to mention the drugs either if this wasn't as serious as it became. Where he ran into the problem was that he established this alibi for the two of them. And then TLM had to go mess it up by being caught on that video from CASS and getting picked up on a probation violation.

So when LE did come around to ask what he was doing that day, he was just zipping around in his car according to him. He knew he couldn't tell them at that point he was in Guelph with the person on the video seen leading Victoria away.

MOO

swedie
03-27-2012, 01:40 PM
Since this was a random abduction IMO, while they may have had a plan to try this, they could not have known for sure that they would be successful in abducting a child on that day. This may not have been the first time that they tried. If it was, they were both probably surprised how easy it was on the first try. And I doubt the plan was ever thought through as to what to do with the victim once she was sexually assaulted. That part of the plan was developed on the way out of town to the secluded area not far from where MR had lived at one point in his teen years IMO.

If it was a planned abduction to take Victoria for a drug debt that day then TLM would likely have had a weapon with her because she would have known that her plan was to abduct her and kill her....for revenge.

On a drug debt that didn't exist IMO.

MOO

:tyou::clap:

antiquegirl
03-27-2012, 01:41 PM
Since this was a random abduction IMO, while they may have had a plan to try this, they could not have known for sure that they would be successful in abducting a child on that day. This may not have been the first time that they tried. If it was, they were both probably surprised how easy it was on the first try. And I doubt the plan was ever thought through as to what to do with the victim once she was sexually assaulted. That part of the plan was developed on the way out of town to the secluded area not far from where MR had lived at one point in his teen years IMO.

If it was a planned abduction to take Victoria for a drug debt that day then TLM would likely have had a weapon with her because she would have known that her plan was to abduct her and kill her....for revenge.

On a drug debt that didn't exist IMO.

MOO

(BBM)

I'm not saying I believe that the motive was a drug debt, but if it was, it didn't necessarily have to be for revenge. It could equally have been for ransom - a ransom that could not be collected for one reason or another. Say, Tori's mother couldn't be reached via phone or text. The murder could have become necessary because Tori was making a fuss, TLM got impatient, lost her temper, and was no longer willing to wait to get hold of TM. She would have two choices - (1) drive around aimlessly for several more hours with a restless, crying child in the car, or (2) just put an end to the whole thing. TLM does not strike me as the patient type and her anger issues (to put it mildly) are well-established.

JMO

Alethea Dice
03-27-2012, 01:46 PM
That 1st tweet bbm, is worrisome. So he went out to that area every 3 or 4 days? How far is her house from the crime scene? Plenty of time to retrieve his shoes or other incriminating evidence, jmo...

I believe her house is still about 1 hour away from the crime scene.

Oldsoul2
03-27-2012, 01:48 PM
No BA was an old friend from work remember? He just dropped in to say hello would have been his story if anyone had asked him where he was that day. It's not like she was going to mention the drugs either if this wasn't as serious as it became. Where he ran into the problem was that he established this alibi for the two of them. And then TLM had to go mess it up by being caught on that video from CASS and getting picked up on a probation violation.

So when LE did come around to ask what he was doing that day, he was just zipping around in his car according to him. He knew he couldn't tell them at that point he was in Guelph with the person on the video seen leading Victoria away.

MOO

They would have checked her out throughly and known why he went there, sure he's not the only person she sells to

antiquegirl
03-27-2012, 01:52 PM
Another question: Why didn't BA contact LE immediately after hearing of MTR's arrest? She knew he'd been right there in Guelph on the day of the abduction, knew he appeared stressed in subsequent visits, so why not? Surely, a small-time dealer in Percs would put finding that child ahead of fear of trafficking charges. And yet, she couldn't have. If she had, TLM wouldn't have had to help LE try to find her house.

I'm not implying anything more here than that this case is full of one reprehensible player after another.

London Free Press‏@RaffertyLFP
Another reporter sez Barbara Armstrong changed clothes to evade photogs waiting for her to exit courthouse

JMO

swedie
03-27-2012, 01:56 PM
No BA was an old friend from work remember? He just dropped in to say hello would have been his story if anyone had asked him where he was that day. It's not like she was going to mention the drugs either if this wasn't as serious as it became. Where he ran into the problem was that he established this alibi for the two of them. And then TLM had to go mess it up by being caught on that video from CASS and getting picked up on a probation violation.

So when LE did come around to ask what he was doing that day, he was just zipping around in his car according to him. He knew he couldn't tell them at that point he was in Guelph with the person on the video seen leading Victoria away.

MOO

MR didn't seem to be in a hurry to leave BA's house. He was probably discussing with BA the "pretty little number" he picked up at the pizza shop, sitting in the passenger seat of his car. A lot of "girlie talk" I bet. Too bad BA didn't walk with MR out to the car to meet that "pretty little number". Tori would probably still been alive today.:moo:

Kamille
03-27-2012, 01:59 PM
(BBM)

I'm not saying I believe that the motive was a drug debt, but if it was, it didn't necessarily have to be for revenge. It could equally have been for ransom - a ransom that could not be collected for one reason or another. Say, Tori's mother couldn't be reached via phone or text. The murder could have become necessary because Tori was making a fuss, TLM got impatient, lost her temper, and was no longer willing to wait to get hold of TM. She would have two choices - (1) drive around aimlessly for several more hours with a restless, crying child in the car, or (2) just put an end to the whole thing. TLM does not strike me as the patient type and her anger issues (to put it mildly) are well-established.

JMO

If anyone had tried to get a hold of TM that day, LE would have known about it. It would be a part of her phone records. I don't think we're going to hear about that.

And the drug debt rumour that was floating around was for at least a 5 figure amount. MR himself stated to BA that he heard that TM (not JG) had a large drug debt. I don't think that two people living in squalor were selling drugs to one person in those amounts. And letting the debt run up to a 5 figure amount before cutting off her supply and kidnapping her child for ransom.

MOO

sillybilly
03-27-2012, 02:00 PM
The Crown's position is that Victoria was being hidden in the car, on the floor under a coat. Now why the defence wouldn't have tried to establish that she was just sitting in there, right up on the backseat as happy as a lark I have no idea. :waitasec:

MOO

Because they know not to ask a question that they don't already know the answer to. Had they asked BA that question, it seems her answer would have been that she did not see Tori sitting there, happy as a lark.

JMO

swedie
03-27-2012, 02:01 PM
(BBM)

I'm not saying I believe that the motive was a drug debt, but if it was, it didn't necessarily have to be for revenge. It could equally have been for ransom - a ransom that could not be collected for one reason or another. Say, Tori's mother couldn't be reached via phone or text. The murder could have become necessary because Tori was making a fuss, TLM got impatient, lost her temper, and was no longer willing to wait to get hold of TM. She would have two choices - (1) drive around aimlessly for several more hours with a restless, crying child in the car, or (2) just put an end to the whole thing. TLM does not strike me as the patient type and her anger issues (to put it mildly) are well-established.

JMO

Respectfully
:what: When is any murder necessary? It's a good think it's not the norm for people to murder crying, screaming children. Lord help us all. :what: JMO

Kamille
03-27-2012, 02:03 PM
They would have checked her out throughly and known why he went there, sure he's not the only person she sells to

Not unless they had reason to suspect that MR and TLM were involved. Which I'm sure MR thought he had covered. But if they had asked on a random house check then that alibi would have panned out. No need for LE to investigate why he was visiting his friend. Without the video, neither of them would have ever been on the radar IMO.

Because TM would never have suspected TLM without that video. Because there was no drug debt to her IMO.

MOO

Kamille
03-27-2012, 02:04 PM
I believe her house is still about 1 hour away from the crime scene.

Yes but how close is it to a car wash?

MOO

Kamille
03-27-2012, 02:06 PM
Another question: Why didn't BA contact LE immediately after hearing of MTR's arrest? She knew he'd been right there in Guelph on the day of the abduction, knew he appeared stressed in subsequent visits, so why not? Surely, a small-time dealer in Percs would put finding that child ahead of fear of trafficking charges. And yet, she couldn't have. If she had, TLM wouldn't have had to help LE try to find her house.

I'm not implying anything more here than that this case is full of one reprehensible player after another.



JMO

Was there something in the tweets that suggested that she didn't? I must have missed that.

antiquegirl
03-27-2012, 02:07 PM
If anyone had tried to get a hold of TM that day, LE would have known about it. It would be a part of her phone records. I don't think we're going to hear about that.

Whose phone records? TM's? I thought I heard that she didn't have her cell that day - that it was in the pawn shop. Could be wrong, but that's how I remember it. I don't think TLM had a phone at all; MTR's phone would have had to have been used. Presumably, we'll find out who he called, or tried to call, on April 8.

And the drug debt rumour that was floating around was for at least a 5 figure amount. MR himself stated to BA that he heard that TM (not JG) had a large drug debt. I don't think that two people living in squalor were selling drugs to one person in those amounts. And letting the debt run up to a 5 figure amount before cutting off her supply and kidnapping her child for ransom.

MOO

Oh, I never believed that ridiculous 5 figure amount for the same reason you wrote. I did believe that it could have been a much lower amount, but now I'm just not sure. Just putting an alternate theory out there.

JMO

Alice Ramnit
03-27-2012, 02:09 PM
Respectfully
:what: When is any murder necessary? It's a good think it's not the norm for people to murder crying, screaming children. Lord help us all. :what: JMO

I don't think Antiquegirl was implying that at all.....just attempting to think like TLM may have

Alethea Dice
03-27-2012, 02:14 PM
Yes but how close is it to a car wash?

MOO

We don't know. TLM couldn't find the car wash.

Sailor Bug
03-27-2012, 02:15 PM
The jury is returning. Almost ready to resume.

Michael Carnegie, a crown lawyer, has called Identification Comstable Gary Scoyne. He testified earlier in the trial.

Crown calls identification officer Constable Gary Scoyne to the stand for the 2nd time. Will appear many times

RaffertyLFP: Crown says Scoyne's testimony will finish off the "Guelph chapter" of the prosecution's case

RaffertyLFP: Scoyne will go through a series of photos of of the Home Depot area and other sites in Guelph

sillybilly
03-27-2012, 02:18 PM
They would have checked her out throughly and known why he went there, sure he's not the only person she sells to

And probably not the only dealer he buys from? Why drive all the way to BA's house when there are probably lots of dealers in Woodstock?

~n/t~
03-27-2012, 02:18 PM
RaffertyLFP: Identification officer Gary Scoyne taking the stand [via Twitter]



So cross of the other officer is done? He asked if TLM looked upset and that's it?

matou
03-27-2012, 02:19 PM
@AM980_Court (https://twitter.com/#%21/AM980_Court)

(https://twitter.com/#%21/AM980_Court/status/184704779145068545)The jury is returning. Almost ready to resume.

@AM980_Court (https://twitter.com/#%21/AM980_Court)


(https://twitter.com/#%21/AM980_Court/status/184705701568970753)Michael Carnegie, a crown lawyer, has called Identification Constable Gary Scoyne. He testified earlier in the trial.

matou
03-27-2012, 02:20 PM
‏ @AM980_Court (https://twitter.com/#%21/AM980_Court)

(https://twitter.com/#%21/AM980_Court/status/184706111381848064)Carnegie tells Justice Heeney and the jury this will wrap up the Guelph chapter of their case.

antiquegirl
03-27-2012, 02:20 PM
Was there something in the tweets that suggested that she didn't? I must have missed that.

No, but TLM had to help LE find her house during the drive-by searches in Guelph and surrounding areas. If BA had called in her connection after MTR was arrested, this wouldn't have been necessary; LE would have had her name and address as soon as she called.

Now Det. Const. Darmon is describing photos of areas in Guelph, including the home McClintic says Rafferty stopped at on the day Tori disappeared so he could purchase drugs. The officer tells the court officers had to drive around Guelph with McClintic "for a little while" until they located the home.
by Jon Hembrey March 23 at 3:09 PM

JMO

matou
03-27-2012, 02:21 PM
@RaffertyLFP (https://twitter.com/#%21/RaffertyLFP)

(https://twitter.com/#%21/RaffertyLFP/status/184706164783710210)Scoyne will go through a series of photos of of the Home Depot area and other sites in Guelph

Sailor Bug
03-27-2012, 02:21 PM
what is raffertys demeaner like today?

Rafferty appears somewhat tired today. He is still pretty emotionless while the witnesses are on the stand

Carnegie tells Justice Heeney and the jury this will wrap up the Guelph chapter of their case.

RaffertyLFP: Scoyne points where exterior security camera is located at Home Depot in Guelph

Scoyne has a slide show. Has an overhead shot of the Home Depot, as well as exterior shots. Shows security camera location.

Ardy
03-27-2012, 02:21 PM
As BA has known MR for a long time, used to date him, and had maintained regular contact with him..............and she said they shared kind of a "girl talk" relationship, I am surprised the Crown did not ask questions about MR's sexual preferences, habits, or interests.

Sometimes I feel like there is more left un-said in this trial than is being said.

matou
03-27-2012, 02:22 PM
‏ @RaffertyLFP (https://twitter.com/#%21/RaffertyLFP)

(https://twitter.com/#%21/RaffertyLFP/status/184706685695311872)Scoyne points where exterior security camera is located at Home Depot in Guelph

@AM980_Court (https://twitter.com/#%21/AM980_Court)


(https://twitter.com/#%21/AM980_Court/status/184706495827554304)Scoyne has a slide show. Has an overhead shot of the Home Depot, as well as exterior shots. Shows security camera location.

Sailor Bug
03-27-2012, 02:22 PM
Const. Scoyne to help lay out the 'Guelph scene' with photos. Just as he did for the "Woodstock scene".

Scoyne points where exterior security camera is located at Home Depot in Guelph

Marked photo shows the jury spots the suspect car stopped in the parking lot.

matou
03-27-2012, 02:23 PM
@AM980_Court (https://twitter.com/#%21/AM980_Court)

(https://twitter.com/#%21/AM980_Court/status/184706851240288256)Marked photo shows the jury spots the suspect car stopped in the parking lot.

sillybilly
03-27-2012, 02:25 PM
I don't think TLM had a phone at all; MTR's phone would have had to have been used. Presumably, we'll find out who he called, or tried to call, on April 8.<rsbm>

IIRC, there was something TLM had texted to a friend that she didn't have any cell time on her phone.

matou
03-27-2012, 02:26 PM
@AM980_Court (https://twitter.com/#%21/AM980_Court)

(https://twitter.com/#%21/AM980_Court/status/184707584874393600)Now pointing out the video cameras in the Guelph Petro Canada/Tim Horton's.

Sailor Bug
03-27-2012, 02:26 PM
RaffertyLFP: Scoyne points out video cameras in photo of gasbar/store near Home Depot

Now pointing out the video cameras in the Guelph Petro Canada/Tim Horton's.

Court sees still image from video from inside of store - appears to be Rafferty

Showing the jury still shots from the security cameras, with a man who lookin like Rafferty walking towards the ATM.

matou
03-27-2012, 02:28 PM
@AM980_Court (https://twitter.com/#%21/AM980_Court)

(https://twitter.com/#%21/AM980_Court/status/184708146726576128)Showing the jury still shots from the security cameras, with a man who lookin like Rafferty walking towards the ATM.

matou
03-27-2012, 02:29 PM
@RaffertyLFP (https://twitter.com/#%21/RaffertyLFP)

(https://twitter.com/#%21/RaffertyLFP/status/184708277869871105)Court sees still image from video from inside of store - appears to be Rafferty

captaincanada
03-27-2012, 02:29 PM
Who stops for drugs, money, home depot, tea etc in the middle of an abduction? Don't think he's too much of a planner

These actions suggest the defence is plausible.

If MR really had planned the abduction:

(1) He would have already had the garbage bags and hammer with him. To suggest he made TLM get these items to cover for himself is too risky. If he was that smart he would have known he would be caught on tape.
(2) He would not have stopped for drugs.
(3) He would not have gone to Tim Horton's and risk getting caught.

Now, if TLM had taken Tori with her and told MR that she was babysitting Tori perhaps and/or did not give MR any intentions of what SHE planned, then:

(1) She would have stopped to get tea at Tim Horton's.
(2) She would be okay with MR stopping to get drugs.
(3) She could have lied to MR about Home Depot and said she had to pick something up.

Sailor Bug
03-27-2012, 02:31 PM
Showing the jury still shots from the security cameras, with a man who looks like Rafferty walking towards the ATM

Court sees ATM receipts and Rafferty's bank records confirming cash withdrawal from ATM

Jury shown still images of the Guelph gas station surveillance video we saw this morning

swedie
03-27-2012, 02:31 PM
Another question: Why didn't BA contact LE immediately after hearing of MTR's arrest? She knew he'd been right there in Guelph on the day of the abduction, knew he appeared stressed in subsequent visits, so why not? Surely, a small-time dealer in Percs would put finding that child ahead of fear of trafficking charges. And yet, she couldn't have. If she had, TLM wouldn't have had to help LE try to find her house.

I'm not implying anything more here than that this case is full of one reprehensible player after another.



JMO

Did I miss something or do we know for fact BA didn't contact LE or is that your speculation? I think I may have missed something. Drug dealers IMO don't have good morals or else they wouldn't be doing something against the law that could harm other people. JMHO. Drug dealers can serve long sentence also. Also LE wanted TLM to show them BA's house to make sure TLM was actually there with MR. Not necessarily LE didn't know where she lived, just dotting all their i's and crossing their t's. MOO

Drug policy of Canada - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Sailor Bug
03-27-2012, 02:32 PM
Scoyne points out still images from video showing car in Home Video parking lot

A new slide has a dotted arrow showing the suspect vehicle's movements at the Home Depot parking lot.

Scoyne going through more still shots of interior of Home Depot

Scoyne has a photo of the security camera. Pointing out where it is to the jury.

matou
03-27-2012, 02:32 PM
‏ @RaffertyLFP (https://twitter.com/#%21/RaffertyLFP)

(https://twitter.com/#%21/RaffertyLFP/status/184709162205315072)Court sees ATM receipts and Rafferty's bank records confirming cash withdrawal from ATM

matou
03-27-2012, 02:33 PM
@AM980_Court (https://twitter.com/#%21/AM980_Court)

(https://twitter.com/#%21/AM980_Court/status/184709431903268864)A new slide has a dotted arrow showing the suspect vehicle's movements at the Home Depot parking lot.

antiquegirl
03-27-2012, 02:35 PM
These actions suggest the defence is plausible.

If MR really had planned the abduction:

(1) He would have already had the garbage bags and hammer with him. To suggest he made TLM get these items to cover for himself is too risky. If he was that smart he would have known he would be caught on tape.
(2) He would not have stopped for drugs.
(3) He would not have gone to Tim Horton's and risk getting caught.

Now, if TLM had taken Tori with her and told MR that she was babysitting Tori perhaps and/or did not give MR any intentions of what SHE planned, then:

(1) She would have stopped to get tea at Tim Horton's.
(2) She would be okay with MR stopping to get drugs.
(3) She could have lied to MR about Home Depot and said she had to pick something up.

(BBM)

We only have TLM's word that MTR even knew what was purchased at Home Depot. She put the bag directly into the trunk.

JMO

~n/t~
03-27-2012, 02:35 PM
Thank goodness criminals are stupid especially these two!!

matou
03-27-2012, 02:36 PM
@RaffertyLFP (https://twitter.com/#%21/RaffertyLFP)

(https://twitter.com/#%21/RaffertyLFP/status/184710086944501761)Scoyne going through more still shots of interior of Home Depot

matou
03-27-2012, 02:37 PM
Thank goodness criminals are stupid especially these two!!

True, but I'm still waiting to hear about where "Mike Reynolds" came from and whether he used other names. JMO

matou
03-27-2012, 02:38 PM
@AM980_Court (https://twitter.com/#%21/AM980_Court)

(https://twitter.com/#%21/AM980_Court/status/184710372496916481)Scoyne has a photo of the security camera. Pointing out where it is to the jury.

Sailor Bug
03-27-2012, 02:38 PM
Also reviewing the transaction record from McClintic's purchase of the hammer and garbage bags.

RaffertyLFP: More images from video of McClintic walking though home video

Next slide shows purchase receipts combined with the OPP purchases of the same item.

matou
03-27-2012, 02:39 PM
@AM980_Court (https://twitter.com/#%21/AM980_Court)

(https://twitter.com/#%21/AM980_Court/status/184710827700531200)Also reviewing the transaction record from McClintic's purchase of the hammer and garbage bags.

Juris_Prudence
03-27-2012, 02:40 PM
Another question: Why didn't BA contact LE immediately after hearing of MTR's arrest? She knew he'd been right there in Guelph on the day of the abduction, knew he appeared stressed in subsequent visits, so why not? Surely, a small-time dealer in Percs would put finding that child ahead of fear of trafficking charges. And yet, she couldn't have. If she had, TLM wouldn't have had to help LE try to find her house.

I'm not implying anything more here than that this case is full of one reprehensible player after another.



JMO

We don't know how big or small time a dealer she is/was. She might have been dealing small stuff to MR, but who knows what else she *might* have been dealing to anyone else *if anything / to anyone else*. She was probably crapping bricks when she realized that MR was at her house on the date of the abduction, and probably scared out of her wits knowing she had sold drugs to him that very evening! She testified she has two kids but I do not know how old they are. Its possible she was afraid of the police finding out about her drug dealing, and/or afraid of the impact that possible criminal charges for dealing might have over her kids (particularly if they are / were minor children at the time). She testified MR was a confidante and so I'm also wondering if maybe he told her about the concerns regarding TLM's involvement with "scary people" from Woodstock and maybe of her possible gang affiliations? :moo:

matou
03-27-2012, 02:40 PM
@AM980_Court (https://twitter.com/#%21/AM980_Court)

(https://twitter.com/#%21/AM980_Court/status/184711195440324608)Next slide shows purchase receipts combined with the OPP purchases of the same item.

matou
03-27-2012, 02:41 PM
‏ @RaffertyLFP (https://twitter.com/#%21/RaffertyLFP)

(https://twitter.com/#%21/RaffertyLFP/status/184711299970772992)More images from video of McClintic walking though home video

Sailor Bug
03-27-2012, 02:41 PM
Now showing outdoor security camera shots again. Shows McClintic getting into the suspect vehicle.

During Const. Scoyne's Testimony #Rafferty seems tired. Rubs eyes, leans back. Seems to drift off once in a while.

RaffertyLFP: Crown going over photo board with all the key Guelph video evidence

Const. Scoyne is helping the court move through this morning's evidence in chronological order. Last witness in Guelph chapter.

matou
03-27-2012, 02:42 PM
@AM980_Court (https://twitter.com/#%21/AM980_Court)

(https://twitter.com/#%21/AM980_Court/status/184711626186964992)Now showing outdoor security camera shots again. Shows McClintic getting into the suspect vehicle.

crazyladi
03-27-2012, 02:42 PM
What else is near Home Depot. What exactly did MTR think she was getting there? Its a "manly" store IMO. I would have no reason to go there unless I needed to pick up hardware stuff. Did he think she was getting maxi pads?? LOL so kidding but really, it seemed like when he rolled up and she threw it in the already opened trunk and jumped in the car that they already had a plan in place. JMO

~n/t~
03-27-2012, 02:42 PM
True, but I'm still waiting to hear about where "Mike Reynolds" came from and whether he used other names. JMO

And if he did, why? Why need aliases?

paris_paris
03-27-2012, 02:42 PM
True, but I'm still waiting to hear about where "Mike Reynolds" came from and whether he used other names. JMO

That's the name TLM's neighbours gave to LE. They only sort of remembered what his last name was.

matou
03-27-2012, 02:43 PM
‏ @AM980_Court (https://twitter.com/#%21/AM980_Court)

(https://twitter.com/#%21/AM980_Court/status/184712131172765696)Carnegie has no more questions for Scoyne. Derstine now cross examining.

~n/t~
03-27-2012, 02:44 PM
What else is near Home Depot. What exactly did MTR think she was getting there? Its a "manly" store IMO. I would have no reason to go there unless I needed to pick up hardware stuff. Did he think she was getting maxi pads?? LOL so kidding but really, it seemed like when he rolled up and she threw it in the already opened trunk and jumped in the car that they already had a plan in place. JMO

Home decorating stuff. Maybe plants. The ones Rafferty and his mom gave her died unexpectedly.

matou
03-27-2012, 02:45 PM
@AM980_Court (https://twitter.com/#%21/AM980_Court)

(https://twitter.com/#%21/AM980_Court/status/184712452221575168)Derstine asks if it appears people are walking faster than they normally would in the video. Scoyne isn't sure if the video is sped up.

matou
03-27-2012, 02:45 PM
@RaffertyLFP (https://twitter.com/#%21/RaffertyLFP)

(https://twitter.com/#%21/RaffertyLFP/status/184712453324668928)Derstine suggests that jerky video may make people seem to be walking faster than they are

Sailor Bug
03-27-2012, 02:46 PM
Computer problems please keep tweeting xo

WOW they are done for the day