View Full Version : Susan Powell's Blood Was Found In Her Home
Desdemona
03-30-2012, 07:49 PM
http://usnews.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/03/30/10945991-court-documents-susan-powells-blood-hand-written-note-expressing-fear-were-found-in-utah-home
The documents, used as justification to search the home where Josh Powell was staying last year, detail a widespread case that investigators had built against him.
Shortly after Susan Powell disappeared, authorities found blood evidence on a floor next to a sofa and determined that it was Susan Powell's. They found several life insurance policies on Susan Powell that totaled $1.5 million. The documents describe Josh Powell as unwilling to help in the investigation.
A safety deposit box used by Susan Powell had a hand-written letter titled "Last will & testament for Susan Powell," according to the documents. She wrote in that letter that she did not trust her husband and that they'd been having marital troubles for four years.
The letter also said that "if Susan Powell dies it may not be an accident, even if it looks like one," according to the documents.
Jacie Estes
03-30-2012, 07:51 PM
I hope the department is held accountable.
coopzoo
03-30-2012, 07:58 PM
I have no words. :furious:
DomCasual
03-30-2012, 08:04 PM
I hope the department is held accountable.
No kidding. At the very least, people need to be finding new careers. I wouldn't want to be a resident of that city right now.
snupy
03-30-2012, 08:14 PM
Search warrant
http://localtvkstu.files.wordpress.com/2012/03/steven-powell-warrants.pdf
GateKeeper
03-30-2012, 09:00 PM
Im SO p..... off about this!!!
I dont even know where to begin.
JoeFromLB
03-30-2012, 09:17 PM
I still can't fathom why he killed her, and his two little boys and himself.
To try to understand this kind of evil is a hopeless endeavor.
LietKynes
03-30-2012, 09:27 PM
Just came over here after viewing the article that Desdemona linked to.... Excuse me while I go and throw up. Just so angry right now.
If there was blood evidence you'd think they'd have enough to have already put Joshs' rear end in jail.
But that's my opinion and NO, I'm not familiar with the inner workings of our justice system.
About 4 years ago I did jury duty for a B&E. They (cops) had arrested a man walking outside a home at 2am after getting a call about a break in...he ( the perp) could give no good reason as to why why he was out walking around their (victims') home with the ladies' purse and other items that did not belong to him. We the jury --unanimously-- found him entirely responsible for his own actions.
It's too bad LE hadn't found JP guilty based on actual blood in the home.... Being angry now won't bring Susan back ; but it may have saved her boys. I always felt that the two little ones were a great comfort to the Cox's...all they had left to remind them of her !
If there's any other woman in a similar situation , where she's seriously frightened like Susan was --- get your kids as soon as he's away at work or somewhere and get the heck out , don't stop to pack things up, just get out !
I know from reading other posts about Susans' final days that it seems she was incredibly controlled by JP and after deciding (allegedly) to harm her --he may not have let her out of his sight; so I'm not blaming Susan.
Sorry for the long rant.
The death of Charlie and Braden just seems to have been something that didn't have to happen.
It's comforting to know that they are with their mom in a safe, beautiful place ; just sad that they're no longer with us !
nursebeeme
03-30-2012, 09:39 PM
A prosecutor in Washington state who was getting a first look at the files Friday said if it was his case, he would have charged Josh Powell with murder.
"There is direct evidence. There is circumstantial evidence. There is motive," said Pierce County prosecutor Mark Lindquist. "There is everything but the body."
The documents, used as justification to search the home where Josh Powell was staying last year, detail a widespread case that investigators had built against him.
Shortly after Susan Powell disappeared, authorities found blood evidence on a floor next to a sofa and determined that it was Susan Powell's. The sofa appeared to have been recently cleaned, and two fans had been set up to blow on it.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/03/30/josh-powell-susan-powell-missing-utah_n_1392756.html
I always knew this was evidence of a clean up after her murder and not koolaid as Josh said
how horrible.
nursebeeme
03-30-2012, 09:42 PM
Pierce County sheriff's spokesman Ed Troyer said his detectives would have arrested Powell "a long time ago" if this had been their case. He said a detective in Washington state was aware of the details gathered and local authorities had been anticipating that Utah investigators would pursue an arrest.
"Obviously, it's frustrating," Troyer said. "We were always waiting for the phone call to go arrest him."
The documents also describe how Steven Powell had an apparent obsession with his daughter-in-law. A locked cabinet in Steve Powell's bedroom contained multiple images of Susan Powell, including some of her in her underwear. Other images showed nude female bodies with Susan Powell's face copied onto them.
Another image showed Steven Powell masturbating to an image of Susan Powell.
Susan Powell wrote in her personal journals that she did not want Steven Powell involved in her life and wished that Josh Powell would sever ties with him. She described Steven Powell as a pedophile.
___http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/03/30/josh-powell-susan-powell-missing-utah_n_1392756.html
diphi
03-30-2012, 09:47 PM
So, is that the "stain" we've talked so much about? The one with the fan blowing on it? Lordy, they found her blood right next to the sofa, and still they could not take action? And a hand-written will? What does it take? A video tape of the actual deed?
WVPD needs to start looking deep within themselves...how could they take no action on the matter? Wish I could have been a fly on the wall during their various conversations when they made their decisions....I've tried to be supportive, but this news makes if very difficult.
imo
LietKynes
03-30-2012, 09:49 PM
Shortly after Susan Powell disappeared, authorities found blood evidence on a floor next to a sofa and determined that it was Susan Powell's. The sofa appeared to have been recently cleaned, and two fans had been set up to blow on it.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/0...n_1392756.html
Resp. snipped from nursebeeme
When this story first broke; many news articles said the fans were blowing on a wet spot on the floor. The news about a recently cleaned sofa is new to me. There were days I had to stop reading about this because it made me so mad...
It really looks like they had enough on JP to arrest him sooner.
Well, JP's gone now as well and a higher power will deal with him.
mysticrose
03-30-2012, 09:50 PM
:eek: :thud:
diphi
03-30-2012, 09:53 PM
Nursebeeme - It's totally, totally disgusting and so heart-breaking for Susan's family. Really, can it get any worse? Susan's family backed WVPD so strongly...
imo
LietKynes
03-30-2012, 09:59 PM
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/03/30/josh-powell-susan-powell-missing-utah_n_1392756.html
Resp. snipped
That is so creepy !!! Makes it look as though SP was directly involved with the murder and disposal of Susan...to do away with evidence. :maddening:
They should put their toughest, meanest detectives onto SP and make him cringe with fear.
It would be good if the Cox's could get some remains back or at least know what happened that cold night.
Since SP is refusing to talk; that will never be. :banghead:
nursebeeme
03-30-2012, 10:20 PM
http://abcnews.go.com/US/susan-powells-blood-found-josh-powells-utah-home/story?id=16042493
The blood of Susan Powell, the Utah mother of two who went missing in December 2009, was found on a floor tile near a sofa in her family home, court documents unsealed Friday revealed.
The documents also revealed the existence of a letter Powell wrote and placed in a safe-deposit box in which she said that Josh Powell, her husband, had "threatened to destroy her if they get divorced" and that if she were to die, "it may not be accident, even if it looks like one," reported ABC News Seattle affiliate KOMO and The Associated Press.
The new evidence, tied to a criminal case involving Steve Powell, Josh Powell's father, raised questions as to why Josh Powell was never charged in the disappearance of his wife.
According to KOMO, after Susan Powell disappeared, her husband emptied her IRA accounts.
Josh Powell said that his wife had been cleaning the rug before she disappeared. He also told authorities that he had decided take an impromptu midnight camping trip with the boys in the midst of a blizzard, the night his wife vanished. Powell said he returned home to find his wife gone.
Later, he would blame his wife's mental state -- "extremely unstable" -- for her disappearance, while his father maintained she had skipped town with a man who disappeared from a Christmas party the night she vanished.
article also talks about SP's earlier interview talking about his "relationship" with Susan (I will not snip it... it is disgusting)
Dr.Fessel
03-30-2012, 10:34 PM
Pierce County Sheriff says someone in Utah dropped the ball and he is mad about it.
http://www.kirotv.com/videos/news/pierce-county-sheriffs-spokesman-somebody-dropped/vGkBX/
Dr.Fessel
03-30-2012, 10:35 PM
He says they did not let him or other agencies know what was in the sealed warrant.
After reading the search warrant, I want to vomit. Why or why did they let Josh and Stephen have those babies? I am so upset.
Tugela
03-30-2012, 10:50 PM
How much blood evidence? If it is just a few spots it wouldn't be grounds to do anything. If you searched my house you would find blood evidence too, but that wouldnt mean I was dead or that a crime had been committed, it would just mean that I lived there and cut myself at some point.
It is the amount that is important.
Dr.Fessel
03-30-2012, 10:53 PM
These DESPICABLE police in West Valley Utah were encouraging the Cox's to stir up Josh Powell and to seek custody of the kids through the courts while the whole time they had plenty to arrest him on murder charges.
They should all resign and be sent to prison for getting those little boys killed for no reason.
Dr.Fessel
03-30-2012, 10:54 PM
How much blood evidence? If it is just a few spots it wouldn't be grounds to do anything. If you searched my house you would find blood evidence too, but that wouldnt mean I was dead or that a crime had been committed, it would just mean that I lived there and cut myself at some point.
It is the amount that is important.
The blood was just a small part of the evidence, they had an overwhelming amount.
Ransom
03-30-2012, 11:01 PM
After reading the search warrant, I want to vomit. Why or why did they let Josh and Stephen have those babies? I am so upset.
I have no words ... no words. Sitting on my hands :censored:
nurselady
03-30-2012, 11:02 PM
I am speechless !!! These children did not have to die !!! They had enough to arrest him !!!
Ransom
03-30-2012, 11:03 PM
How much blood evidence? If it is just a few spots it wouldn't be grounds to do anything. If you searched my house you would find blood evidence too, but that wouldnt mean I was dead or that a crime had been committed, it would just mean that I lived there and cut myself at some point.
It is the amount that is important.
Not the same thing at all since you still live to post and Susan doesn't. It was waaaaaaaaay more than that. READ to document. :banghead:
Dr.Fessel
03-30-2012, 11:04 PM
WVPD told Cox's to do that honk and wave thing that got Josh all upset.
Dr. Know?
03-30-2012, 11:04 PM
Snipped from the bottom of this article.
http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/mobile/53824340-68/powell-josh-police-warrants.html.csp#.T3Zu83G0B2A.twitter
Other search warrants remain sealed
More than two years ago, The Salt Lake Tribune asked a judge to unseal investigative documents in Susan Powell's disappearance, including search warrants served on Josh and Susan Powell's West Valley City home.
The Tribune recently renewed the motion, arguing that it is highly unlikely any concerns remain about privacy, individual safety or security, or investigation integrity since Josh Powell has killed himself and his sons. The newspaper is in discussions with prosecutors and West Valley City attorneys in an attempt to resolve the dispute outside of court.
dovebar
03-30-2012, 11:05 PM
It was enough that someone felt the need to clean it up. Enough that it took a lot of water, sufficient to need the fans to dry the carpet. That's how much.
How much blood evidence? If it is just a few spots it wouldn't be grounds to do anything. If you searched my house you would find blood evidence too, but that wouldnt mean I was dead or that a crime had been committed, it would just mean that I lived there and cut myself at some point.
It is the amount that is important.
Two fans blowing to dry the 'clean up' area makes me think it was a significant clean up, in which he still left at least trace evidence on the tile floor.
JMO.
Ransom
03-30-2012, 11:12 PM
Snipped from the bottom of this article.
http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/mobile/53824340-68/powell-josh-police-warrants.html.csp#.T3Zu83G0B2A.twitter
Other search warrants remain sealed
More than two years ago, The Salt Lake Tribune asked a judge to unseal investigative documents in Susan Powell's disappearance, including search warrants served on Josh and Susan Powell's West Valley City home.
The Tribune recently renewed the motion, arguing that it is highly unlikely any concerns remain about privacy, individual safety or security, or investigation integrity since Josh Powell has killed himself and his sons. The newspaper is in discussions with prosecutors and West Valley City attorneys in an attempt to resolve the dispute outside of court.
I think you meant this:
More than two years ago, The Salt Lake Tribune asked a judge to unseal investigative documents in Susan Powell's disappearance, including search warrants served on Josh and Susan Powell's West Valley City home.
The Tribune recently renewed the motion, arguing it is unlikely any concerns remain about privacy, individual safety or security, or investigation integrity since Josh Powell has killed himself and his sons.
The newspaper is in discussions with prosecutors and West Valley City attorneys in an attempt to resolve the dispute outside of court.
Ransom
03-30-2012, 11:13 PM
WVPD told Cox's to do that honk and wave thing that got Josh all upset.
:censored:
Dr.Fessel
03-30-2012, 11:16 PM
They knew they had enough evidence to convict Josh, they were just holding off hoping to find evidence his dad was involved. IMO
And no blood in the minivan or tarps? Weird. I wonder what else they have. Josh was a proven liar several times, a very weak alibi. He leaves a VM on Susan's cell asking if he and the boys should pick her up from work, yet LE finds her cell in the minivan he was driving in the OFF position and the sim card removed. How much evidence did they need??? Ridiculous. He removes his own sim card and gives LE his phone.. and on and on and on..
This is so disturbing. Utah needs to fix some serious problems if this is how they routinely handle cases.
Dr.Fessel
03-30-2012, 11:28 PM
This is really kicking the Washington LE in the guts. I bet they are all furious.
Dr. Know?
03-30-2012, 11:29 PM
Chuck Cox talks to Ron and Don about the unsealed search warrant to Steven Powell's home
http://mynorthwest.com/?nid=577&a=40814&p=11&n=
Kiirsi Hellewell @Kiirs
Still reeling from the revelations of the past 3 hours. Wow. #findsusan
thefragile7393
03-30-2012, 11:36 PM
No joke. Both Powell men are/were sick sick people
SuziQ
03-30-2012, 11:45 PM
How much blood evidence? If it is just a few spots it wouldn't be grounds to do anything. If you searched my house you would find blood evidence too, but that wouldnt mean I was dead or that a crime had been committed, it would just mean that I lived there and cut myself at some point.
It is the amount that is important.
It's not just the blood. It's the totality of all the evidence.
SuziQ
03-30-2012, 11:57 PM
This is really kicking the Washington LE in the guts. I bet they are all furious.
Not to mention ending up with two dead little boys on their hands. They had to deal with that in person. WA LE knew the details but could not do anything. This had to be frustrating for them.
Very good 5 page article at the below link:
http://www.deseretnews.com/article/765564678/New-documents-raise-question-Why-werent-charges-filed-against-Josh-Powell.html
(snip)
Pierce County sheriff's spokesman Ed Troyer said his detectives would have arrested Powell "a long time ago" if this had been their case. He said a detective in Washington state was aware of the details gathered and local authorities had been anticipating that Utah investigators would pursue an arrest.
"Obviously, it's frustrating," Troyer said. "We were always waiting for the phone call to go arrest him."
Desdemona
03-31-2012, 12:04 AM
Chuck Cox talks to Ron and Don about the unsealed search warrant to Steven Powell's home
http://mynorthwest.com/?nid=577&a=40814&p=11&n=
Kiirsi Hellewell @Kiirs
Still reeling from the revelations of the past 3 hours. Wow. #findsusan
Mr. Cox (from the podcast linked above):
"I'm shocked at how much information they had."
"It was disturbing to know the things they knew -- that they did have blood evidence -- Why didn't they arrest him?"
---
The Coxes had no idea. They had not been told about the blood or much of the other evidence LE had on Josh. They didn't know about the "Last Will and Testament" in the safe deposit box, either.
:shakehead:
http://mynorthwest.com/?nid=577&a=40814&p=11&n=
Jacie Estes
03-31-2012, 12:07 AM
Those poor people; how much more are the Coxes supposed to endure? Prayers offered for them.
meganx3xo
03-31-2012, 01:19 AM
Completely disgusting. I am so fed up with people being able to kill their wives/children and making their bodies disappear and getting away with it.
I hope the Coxes can sue WVPD for wrongful death or something.
SOMETHING has to change. This cannot continue.
Desdemona
03-31-2012, 01:32 AM
Here is the warrant again:
http://localtvkstu.files.wordpress.com/2012/03/steven-powell-warrants.pdf
Mind-blowing details, and mind-blowing that Josh was not arrested IMO. Like Pierce County LE said, Utah had everything but her body.
Can't begin to comprehend why any of this happened at all. RIP beautiful Susan, and dear little Charlie and Braden. How my heart goes out to the Cox family.
JMO
dovebar
03-31-2012, 01:51 AM
If there was blood on the couch and carpet but not in the van, yet the boys say mommy, (not a rolled up carpet), I am betting that the poisoning theory is correct. She was made to eat something that was meant to incapacitate or kill her. She vomited part of it, vomiting blood. That wasn't part of the plan, so it had to be cleaned up. But by the time she was put in the van, she was either unconscious, immobilized (as with a date rape drug - no will to resist), or dead, and cleaned up. She was not bleeding so there was no blood in the van.
MsFacetious
03-31-2012, 02:43 AM
If WE are this upset... and the family is upset... and Pierce County Sheriff is upset...
Can you imagine how that social worker feels right now?
Or the people who had to remove Charlie and Braden's bodies from that house?
Wow.
ThoughtFox
03-31-2012, 02:58 AM
What is wrong with that police department in Utah?
Why? Why? Why?
Those boys could be alive right now. They should never have been with Josh at all! Why was he walking around free?
Half the misery in the world is from people looking the other way or pretending not to see things, it seems to me.
MsFacetious
03-31-2012, 03:11 AM
"Anything specific to our investigation I'm not going to be able to address," West Valley Police Sgt. Mike Powell said.
"Anything that might impede our investigation will not be discussed."
http://www.deseretnews.com/article/765564678/New-documents-raise-question-Why-werent-charges-filed-against-Josh-Powell.html
That, right there is why Charlie and Braden are dead. That right there, is what matters to everyone.
There is no way around it, there is no way to sugar coat it, there is no way to excuse it.
You protected the integrity of your investigation instead of sharing evidence to save these boys. :tears:
http://img263.imageshack.us/img263/3793/powell10.jpg
tiredblondy
03-31-2012, 03:30 AM
I am sad and furious at the same time! Those two little boys went through so much. I'm glad the Washington LE are telling exactly how they feel.
Maybe that is why S. Powell is locked up because he's in Washington under their jurisdiction.
I hope there are serious repercussions and the attorney general looks at this.
Thorkim
03-31-2012, 03:42 AM
I truly want to throw up after reading this. It was so obvious from the beginning that Josh was guilty and should have been arrested a long time ago. Now not only is Susan gone but those two little boys. I am sick.
AmandaReckonwith
03-31-2012, 04:01 AM
Steve Powell Justice section of the Susan Powell case archive is here:
http://s296.photobucket.com/albums/mm166/crankycrankerson/Susan%20Cox%20Powell%20%20-UT-/Steve%20Powell-%20Crimes-%20Punishment-%20WebRants-%20Susan/
It has all the search warrant pages, and articles, vids, pics from today and from the beginning of charges against the perv.
SuziQ
03-31-2012, 04:12 AM
If WE are this upset... and the family is upset... and Pierce County Sheriff is upset...
Can you imagine how that social worker feels right now?
Or the people who had to remove Charlie and Braden's bodies from that house?
Wow.
This same thing has been running through my head all night. Needless pain and suffering for so many.
Sulamith
03-31-2012, 04:17 AM
How much blood evidence? If it is just a few spots it wouldn't be grounds to do anything. If you searched my house you would find blood evidence too, but that wouldnt mean I was dead or that a crime had been committed, it would just mean that I lived there and cut myself at some point.
It is the amount that is important.
I also think that the amount of blood found is important. Blood was found on the tile. How much blood? I remember reading that LE removed a portion of the carpet that the fans were drying. Was any blood found on the carpet? Vomit residue? Of course I don't know anything about LE but I would think with all the info WVPD found I think it was enough to put the kids in an undisclosed foster family and deny Josh Powell visitation. I am not at all impressed with WVPD having the Cox family do that wave and honk to try to pressure JP. Seeing how JP hated Susan's family, I wonder how wise it was to place the kids with the Cox family.
JMO
MsFacetious
03-31-2012, 04:44 AM
This same thing has been running through my head all night. Needless pain and suffering for so many.
He actually talks about that in the interview... the ones who took care of the kids when they arrested Steve...
His detectives are even struggling.
Because they don't understand... up there this would have been charged.
They don't understand why it wasn't in West Valley.
http://www.kirotv.com/videos/news/pierce-county-sheriffs-spokesman-somebody-dropped/vGkBX/
diphi
03-31-2012, 07:30 AM
I think you meant this:
More than two years ago, The Salt Lake Tribune asked a judge to unseal investigative documents in Susan Powell's disappearance, including search warrants served on Josh and Susan Powell's West Valley City home.
The Tribune recently renewed the motion, arguing it is unlikely any concerns remain about privacy, individual safety or security, or investigation integrity since Josh Powell has killed himself and his sons.
The newspaper is in discussions with prosecutors and West Valley City attorneys in an attempt to resolve the dispute outside of court.
I hope the Trib is successful with this, although I shutter to think what other evidence was available in the remaining sealed search warrants.
imo
CarolinaMoon
03-31-2012, 07:31 AM
:maddening: I'm shaken and furious. I agree with everyone here. The Cox family is devastated by this latest news.
My anger, which rarely rears it's ugly head, is thoroughly aimed at the WVPD.
My heart is with Susan, Charlie, and Braden. I especially am devastated that the WVPD didn't release information to the Cox family to immediately gain full custody of the boys. Josh Powell had years to poison their minds. When Charlie died in the inferno, he was already mentally twisted by his father to the point he was full of hate. He said his brother was dead, drew that awful picture that was discussed at length in another thread. At the time of Susan's murder, he told WVPD his mother was DEAD, in an emotionless voice. He was a damaged child then. What would it have cost WVPD to save him from his monster of a father? Braden, at that point was a toddler and would have been easier to treat. I can't imagine what awful indoctrination he was going through.
I also think that the amount of blood found is important. Blood was found on the tile. How much blood? I remember reading that LE removed a portion of the carpet that the fans were drying. Was any blood found on the carpet? Vomit residue? Of course I don't know anything about LE but I would think with all the info WVPD found I think it was enough to put the kids in an undisclosed foster family and deny Josh Powell visitation. I am not at all impressed with WVPD having the Cox family do that wave and honk to try to pressure JP. Seeing how JP hated Susan's family, I wonder how wise it was to place the kids with the Cox family.
JMO
BBM: Would you have rather have them left with the Powells or maybe complete strangers? The Cox family loved those boys and did everything in their power to get them and keep them safe. The failure here lies with the WVPD not informing the WA authorities and DHHS of exactly what they knew. The Cox family have suffered way more than enough, at least they have the memories of the boys those last few months.
I totally agree Josh should have never been granted visitation supervised or unsupervised. Josh should have been in jail in Utah BEFORE he had the chance to move the boys to Washington to be with his sickening POS father.
I really don't think the amount of blood here matters, there was enough to do DNA. Apparently, there was enough cleaning of the blood to have the fans running to dry certain areas. Along with the blood you have all of the other evidence.
My question is why wasn't Josh arrested for tampering with evidence for removing the SIM cards from both his and Susan's phones? I mean seriously, he committed a crime by doing that.
Josh made it so obvious that he was involved in Susan's murder that Ray Charles and Helen Keller could have seen it!
I am sickened and upset after reading these search warrants. Two innocent boys are dead all to "protect the integrity" of WVPD's investigation.....Hope that whomever made that decision can sleep at night, because I sure didn't last night...
JMO, IMO, MOO, :moo::moo:, and all other disclaimers...
lorann
03-31-2012, 08:14 AM
The only one good thought I get out of this horrible travesty is the short times Charlie and Braden were in the loving arms of their grandparents where they were loved and shown how life was suppose to be - and the short time the grandparents could nurture their grandsons. These short times ended by evilness by Josh and stupidity of inept LE.
:tears::tears::tears:
dog.gone.cute
03-31-2012, 08:37 AM
:maddening: :maddening: :maddening:
OMG ! I just saw this and I am speechless !
:rose::rose: RIP Susan, Charlie and Braden :rose::rose:
:rose::rose::rose::rose::rose::rose::rose::rose:
Donjeta
03-31-2012, 08:38 AM
Just devastating.
After all the new news I always think that this case can't possibly get any worse and then it does.
Jacie Estes
03-31-2012, 08:59 AM
:maddening: I'm shaken and furious. I agree with everyone here. The Cox family is devastated by this latest news.
My anger, which rarely rears it's ugly head, is thoroughly aimed at the WVPD.
My heart is with Susan, Charlie, and Braden. I especially am devastated that the WVPD didn't release information to the Cox family to immediately gain full custody of the boys. Josh Powell had years to poison their minds. When Charlie died in the inferno, he was already mentally twisted by his father to the point he was full of hate. He said his brother was dead, drew that awful picture that was discussed at length in another thread. At the time of Susan's murder, he told WVPD his mother was DEAD, in an emotionless voice. He was a damaged child then. What would it have cost WVPD to save him from his monster of a father? Braden, at that point was a toddler and would have been easier to treat. I can't imagine what awful indoctrination he was going through.
I shudder to think what Charlie went through. josh powell was a severely damaged son by steve powell's hand and josh kept the cycle going by his actions with Charlie. :(
badhorsie
03-31-2012, 09:24 AM
What an unholy mess :furious: Why was he allowed to keep those boys? I would like to hope that heads will roll after this, can Susan's parents sue the Police Dept?
TotallyObsessed
03-31-2012, 09:47 AM
Hi all. I have not kept up with this case much, just know the tragic circumstances of the little boys' deaths....but after reading this:
The documents also describe how Steven Powell had an apparent obsession with his daughter-in-law. A locked cabinet in Steve Powell's bedroom contained multiple images of Susan Powell, including some of her in her underwear. Other images showed nude female bodies with Susan Powell's face copied onto them.
Another image showed Steven Powell masturbating to an image of Susan Powell.
Susan Powell wrote in her personal journals that she did not want Steven Powell involved in her life and wished that Josh Powell would sever ties with him. She described Steven Powell as a pedophile.
Josh Powell said that his wife had been cleaning the rug before she disappeared. He also told authorities that he had decided take an impromptu midnight camping trip with the boys in the midst of a blizzard, the night his wife vanished. Powell said he returned home to find his wife gone.
I am wondering if Josh killed her and then took the boys out of the house that night while Steven Powell disposed of the body.
Mosby
03-31-2012, 10:03 AM
OMG. I'm so angry once again. As other have said, I thought it couldn't get any worse and yet once again it did. This did not have to happen. Shame on those that didn't act when they could have and should have.
Who to blame -- is it the WVPD or the WV prosecutors. Which one made the decision that they didn't have enough to go forward. I really want the answer to that. And I want them held accountable.
FGS, we've all seen cases charged with less evidence haven't we? And we still haven't seen it all -- some of it is still under seal.
My heart aches for the Coxes. More heart break that they should not have.
ohiogirl
03-31-2012, 10:31 AM
This is just unbelievable. Those boys should never have been allowed to live with this sick family. WV LE sacrificed those boys. Of course they didn't know that JP would kill them. But, what about letting them stay with an obviously unstable parent? They need to take responsibility. They won't comment to protect the integrity of their investigation? That's a laugh.
Just K
03-31-2012, 10:45 AM
Why did they unseal these warrants now and why was this information released to the media in the late evening,on a Friday night and two plus years after Susan disappeared? Why now?
hollyblue
03-31-2012, 10:52 AM
He says they did not let him or other agencies know what was in the sealed warrant.
The very last statement he made...to the affect of "trying to get strong case xxxxxxx? Was that last word OFF? What did he say? TYIA
http://www.kirotv.com/videos/news/pierce-county-sheriffs-spokesman-somebody-dropped/vGkBX/ (http://www.kirotv.com/videos/news/pierce-county-sheriffs-spokesman-somebody-dropped/vGkBX/)
hollyblue
03-31-2012, 11:05 AM
How much blood evidence? If it is just a few spots it wouldn't be grounds to do anything. If you searched my house you would find blood evidence too, but that wouldnt mean I was dead or that a crime had been committed, it would just mean that I lived there and cut myself at some point.
It is the amount that is important.
Agree. I'm also confused because the one MSM report says the blood evidence was found on the comforter from the storage unit, and the then the other says on the floor.
There is a lot that does not jive, imo, but I'm going to review all of the MSM reporting before listing. I had asked numerous times-- and even the reporters-- on the descrepancy of what was found on the bed...phone, keys, and purse because the reporting had not be consistant (in many articles).
And if her cell was in the van....why couldn't they track it's pings to where he had been? Did he remove the battery? IMO, upon finding a shovel, a tarp and a gas can in the van, that was enough for any jury to convict with all the other circumtantial evidence, imo. No trace evidence of "crystals" on that shovel...and the tire tracks? No DNA of Susan on that tarp? :banghead:
More later..
ohiogirl
03-31-2012, 11:18 AM
Why did they unseal these warrants now and why was this information released to the media in the late evening,on a Friday night and two plus years after Susan disappeared? Why now?
I believe it came out because SP has filed a motion that the search of his home and computers was illegal. So, they had to release them for the hearing? jmo There is a thread about his hearing yesterday.
Peazzzer
03-31-2012, 11:54 AM
I will never forget that night that she went missing or when it was first reported that she was missing ,etc. It was so dang cold here in Wyoming, I remember thinking who in sam's hill takes their toddlers out camping in this crud? It didn't fly with me then, and in light of everything else over the 2 years, it makes no sense whatsoever.
If they needed a bright red truck to nail josh, a dart could have been thrown at any of the evidence and made it stick!!! OOOOOOoooooooo......:banghead:
concentric
03-31-2012, 11:59 AM
The fans were found inside the living room sofa?:
http://www.cnn.com/2012/03/31/us/utah-powell-disappearance/index.html
In the hours after Susan Powell was reported missing, authorities said they found two fans inside the living room sofa that appeared to have just been cleaned.
Chili Fries
03-31-2012, 12:25 PM
What really gets me is that Susan saw this coming and put the note that said...if something happens to me, it was Josh...in a safety deposit box. And that still wasn't enough. She was denied the opportunity to protect her children from beyond the grave. It's beyond heartbreaking.
We've seen other cases where letters like this were instrumental in getting convictions and where there was less supporting evidence than in this one. I really can't believe this.
Just K
03-31-2012, 01:22 PM
Didn't the recent documents say that Susan kept some of her journals at work? Or did I just imagine that? If so, those might contain more specific concerns, etc.
Jacie Estes
03-31-2012, 01:26 PM
Didn't the recent documents say that Susan kept some of her journals at work? Or did I just imagine that? If so, those might contain more specific concerns, etc.
IIRC The WVCPD went to her worklace and got those but that didn't stop josh from cashing in her 401Ks. It must have chapped his azz that she had those.
Just K
03-31-2012, 01:34 PM
IIRC The WVCPD went to her worklace and got those but that didn't stop josh from cashing in her 401Ks. It must have chapped his azz that she had those.
Too bad she didn't make a video diary, from work and send it to an attorney or post it in an account online. Perhaps any women who is in fear of her spouse, boyfriend, coworker, or stalker should make a video record of her fears and put that in a safety deposit box or send it to a private attorney in case of a questionable death or disappearance.
Then again, LE might have ignored that as well.
concentric
03-31-2012, 01:51 PM
I know that a lot of women in DV situations feel shame and guilt over what the abuser is doing. This is a part of why women don't tell others about what is going on. They know that they will be the one who is blamed and be shamed no matter which way, or to what "professionals" they turn to.
RubyBlu
03-31-2012, 02:28 PM
Before noticing the "Susan's blood" article on CNN today, I had vowed never to search for, or post about, anything relating to this case again. The twists & turns of this UGLY mess of 3 years lead back & pointed to a sick & repulsive pedo. The expletive words that I would like to spit out would not be acceptable on his forum nor would any available "smilie" illustrate the anger I feel.
wenwe4
03-31-2012, 02:40 PM
"Lohra Miller, who was the prosecutor in Salt Lake County at the time of Susan Powell’s disappearance, told the Tribune that police never presented the case for full consideration. In any event, she said, the facts laid out in the search warrants were insufficient -- in her mind -- to bring a case without risk of reasonable doubt."
http://www.latimes.com/news/nation/nationnow/la-na-nn-josh-powell-20120331,0,1105015.story
dog.gone.cute
03-31-2012, 03:42 PM
Pierce County Sheriff says someone in Utah dropped the ball and he is mad about it.
http://www.kirotv.com/videos/news/pierce-county-sheriffs-spokesman-somebody-dropped/vGkBX/
He says they did not let him or other agencies know what was in the sealed warrant.
These DESPICABLE police in West Valley Utah were encouraging the Cox's to stir up Josh Powell and to seek custody of the kids through the courts while the whole time they had plenty to arrest him on murder charges.
They should all resign and be sent to prison for getting those little boys killed for no reason.
Thank You, Dr. Fessel, for the info here !
A question came to mind after reading this ... maybe an attorney will be able to answer this :
Can the U.S. Attorney's Office for the State of Utah -- or maybe the U.S. Attorney's Office for the State of Washington launch a federal investigation into this case and the LE Department in Utah that was handling Susan's "disappearance" ?
The federal agency needs to investigate this immediately and hold those accountable in Utah who did NOT do what they should have done !
Josh was dangerous, and we NOW know HOW extremely dangerous and demented he was for what he did to Susan, and for what Josh did to Charlie and Braden ! I get so upset just thinking about it !
There obviously was enough evidence to charge Josh -- and 'dada' -- for Susan's "disappearance"/"murder"
So WHO dropped the ball and WHY ? The federal U.S. Attorney's Office needs to investigate -- so this NEVER EVER happens to any other innocent person again !
Sorry for the rant ... this is just devastating ... and Prayers for Mr. and Mrs. Cox !
:maddening:
Donjeta
03-31-2012, 03:43 PM
And if her cell was in the van....why couldn't they track it's pings to where he had been? Did he remove the battery? IMO, upon finding a shovel, a tarp and a gas can in the van, that was enough for any jury to convict with all the other circumtantial evidence, imo. No trace evidence of "crystals" on that shovel...and the tire tracks? No DNA of Susan on that tarp? :banghead:
More later..
The phone wouldn't ping without a sim card I think, or if it did they wouldn't have known it was hers.
Investigators later found Susan Cox Powell's cellphone in the center console of Josh Powell's car. The phone did not contain a sim card, detectives said, and Josh Powell said he did not know why the phone was in his car.
http://www.komonews.com/news/Docs-Susan-Powells-blood-found-near-couch-at-her-house-145232305.html?m=y&smobile=y
SmoothOperator
03-31-2012, 03:57 PM
Direct link to 29 page PDF containing all newly released, unsealed court documents re: Powell case..
http://localtvkstu.files.wordpress.com/2012/03/steven-powell-warrants.pdf
**plz just disregard if already linked...my apologies I didn't have time to read through the posts in this thread;)
Dal Gal
03-31-2012, 04:48 PM
"Lohra Miller, who was the prosecutor in Salt Lake County at the time of Susan Powell’s disappearance, told the Tribune that police never presented the case for full consideration. In any event, she said, the facts laid out in the search warrants were insufficient -- in her mind -- to bring a case without risk of reasonable doubt."
http://www.latimes.com/news/nation/nationnow/la-na-nn-josh-powell-20120331,0,1105015.story
Did you read the reader comments at this link? At 12:02pm today (Mar. 31), is a scathing comment about former prosecutor Lohra Miller which begins with: "The former prosecutor of Salt Lake County was probably the most incompetent and corrupt county prosecutor in America."
A search of Susan's forum here shows that the prosecutor's office hasn't been discussed actively (at least when I search Lohra Miller by name), and perhaps it is time to do so! WVCPD is by no means off the hook here, but the final word on prosecution based on this preponderance of evidence produced by LE falls right onto the desk of Miller's office!
meganx3xo
03-31-2012, 05:00 PM
"Lohra Miller, who was the prosecutor in Salt Lake County at the time of Susan Powell’s disappearance, told the Tribune that police never presented the case for full consideration. In any event, she said, the facts laid out in the search warrants were insufficient -- in her mind -- to bring a case without risk of reasonable doubt."
http://www.latimes.com/news/nation/nationnow/la-na-nn-josh-powell-20120331,0,1105015.story
BBM: Shouldn't the grand jury be the one to make those kinds of decisions?
meganx3xo
03-31-2012, 05:01 PM
Did you read the reader comments at this link? At 12:02pm today (Mar. 31), is a scathing comment about former prosecutor Lohra Miller which begins with: "The former prosecutor of Salt Lake County was probably the most incompetent and corrupt county prosecutor in America."
A search of Susan's forum here shows that the prosecutor's office hasn't been discussed actively (at least when I search Lohra Miller by name), and perhaps it is time to do so! WVCPD is by no means off the hook here, but the final word on prosecution based on this preponderance of evidence produced by LE falls right onto the desk of Miller's office!
Are we allowed to sleuth her?
LaLaw2000
03-31-2012, 05:11 PM
What I have to say about this cannot be said here.
I am so sorry for Susan, her innocent boys, and the Cox family. I will never forget any of them.
My prayers go to the Cox family.
Dal Gal
03-31-2012, 05:15 PM
Are we allowed to sleuth her?
Dunno! She held a publicly elected office and is quoted in articles on this case, in addition to other matters of county business.
Here is an interview with current DA Sim Gills, who replaced Miller in 2011, regarding the search warrant documents: http://fox13now.com/2012/03/30/prosecutor-says-josh-powell-would-have-been-arrested-in-washington/
"“There were attorneys from this office when this happened working with the West Valley Police Department saying ‘okay what do you have’ … and looking and going back and forth with that information,” said Gill.
Gill says he understands why family, friends and even the public may be puzzled as to why, given such evidence revealed in Friday unsealed search warrant, that Josh Powell was not charged.""
Unreal. Susan's loved one's must be beyond devastated over this. I have a feeling that there's much more to come out. :maddening:
meganx3xo
03-31-2012, 05:44 PM
Very interesting old reports on KSL when you google Lohra Miller.
http://www.ksl.com/?nid=148&sid=827654
She dropped all charges against a police officer who shot an unarmed man and then accidentally let 3 sustects go because she didn't do the paperwork/whatever fast enough.
http://www.sltrib.com/news/ci_15003556
Desdemona
03-31-2012, 05:44 PM
Bumping the link to the warrants.
http://localtvkstu.files.wordpress.com/2012/03/steven-powell-warrants.pdf
--
From the docs:
LE found two fans had been left on, directed toward a sofa that appeared to have been recently cleaned. When asked about this, Josh explained to LE that Susan had instructed him to clean the sofa.
Blood evidence was collected from a tiled floor area adjacent to the sofa. This blood evidence was found to match Susan.
Reading the documented sequence of events from the time Susan disappeared, and the evasive lies and highly incriminating behavior of Josh in these docs -- it's just unbelievable. Not to mention the incomprehensible perversion of daddy dearest. Ugh.
And Susan's posthumously-revealed words, written when she knew she was in danger and wanted to safeguard the truth; wow, how very tragic this is! All of it.
:notgood:
x_files
03-31-2012, 05:50 PM
Very interesting old reports on KSL when you google Lohra Miller.
http://www.ksl.com/?nid=148&sid=827654
She dropped all charges against a police officer who shot an unarmed man and then accidentally let 3 sustects go because she didn't do the paperwork/whatever fast enough.
http://www.sltrib.com/news/ci_15003556
She needs to be fired. incompetent.
Quiche
03-31-2012, 06:02 PM
This is galling! :furious:
I can only hope there is sufficient backlash from the ineptitude of the WVPD to reverberate through legal systems far and wide to make certain this type of travesty never happens again. :mad:
For the sanity of the Cox family, for the integrity of their love for Susan and her boys, I can only pray that some good comes from these ultimate sacrifices. :(
:cry:
Dal Gal
03-31-2012, 06:13 PM
She needs to be fired. incompetent.
She lost her re-election bid in the 2010 election. I'm not going to link to her personal linkedin and google+ accounts, but on one she describes herself as a "recovering attorney" and the other outlines a period of unemployment following her election loss and she is now employed in the private sector.
epiphany
03-31-2012, 06:16 PM
This is just unbelievable. Those boys should never have been allowed to live with this sick family. WV LE sacrificed those boys. Of course they didn't know that JP would kill them. But, what about letting them stay with an obviously unstable parent? They need to take responsibility. They won't comment to protect the integrity of their investigation? That's a laugh.
Respectfully BBM
Perhaps, Utah LE did know the risk was very high:
She wrote that her husband had "threatened to destroy her if they get divorced and her children will not have a mother and father," the documents said.
http://www.cnn.com/2012/03/31/us/utah-powell-disappearance/?hpt=hp_t2
SuziQ
03-31-2012, 06:19 PM
"Lohra Miller, who was the prosecutor in Salt Lake County at the time of Susan Powell’s disappearance, told the Tribune that police never presented the case for full consideration. In any event, she said, the facts laid out in the search warrants were insufficient -- in her mind -- to bring a case without risk of reasonable doubt."
http://www.latimes.com/news/nation/nationnow/la-na-nn-josh-powell-20120331,0,1105015.story
Oh boy. I thought we got rid of Lohra "My kids can do no wrong" Miller, when she was voted out of office. But that's for another thread.
SuziQ
03-31-2012, 06:22 PM
Did you read the reader comments at this link? At 12:02pm today (Mar. 31), is a scathing comment about former prosecutor Lohra Miller which begins with: "The former prosecutor of Salt Lake County was probably the most incompetent and corrupt county prosecutor in America."
A search of Susan's forum here shows that the prosecutor's office hasn't been discussed actively (at least when I search Lohra Miller by name), and perhaps it is time to do so! WVCPD is by no means off the hook here, but the final word on prosecution based on this preponderance of evidence produced by LE falls right onto the desk of Miller's office!
Yep!!! Oh I don't even know where to start with her.
epiphany
03-31-2012, 06:28 PM
Why did they unseal these warrants now and why was this information released to the media in the late evening,on a Friday night and two plus years after Susan disappeared? Why now?
The pornography, consisting of thousands of photos and videos of women and girls taken without their knowledge, was believed to have belonged to Josh Powell's father, Steven Powell, 61, who is now awaiting trial on charges of voyeurism and possession of sexually-explicit pictures of children.
Steven has filed a challenge seeking to dismiss the charges, which is what led to the release of the search warrant documents on Friday with more details about his son.
http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/03/31/us-powell-wife-blood-idUSBRE82U0G620120331
Cubby
03-31-2012, 06:29 PM
Just devastating.
After all the new news I always think that this case can't possibly get any worse and then it does.
I agree.
I also agree with another poster who mentioned the boys deaths are the responsibility of WVPD and SA's office, who chose to keep information secret to protect the integrity of the case over the safety of two young innocent boys.
WVLE and SA's office screwed up and screwed up big time. We've seen cases with 1st degree no body murder charges with far less evidence than what appears WVPD and the SA's office had in this case.
I still need to catch up on the thread, but WVLE and the SA's office needs to be held responsible for their complete failure in this case. I can't think of any other case where there has been such blatent incompetency.
hollyblue
03-31-2012, 06:45 PM
Respectfully BBM
Perhaps, Utah LE did know the risk was very high:
She wrote that her husband had "threatened to destroy her if they get divorced and her children will not have a mother and father," the documents said.
http://www.cnn.com/2012/03/31/us/utah-powell-disappearance/?hpt=hp_t2
I'm having a little trouble with the letter/will and testament, just because it was dated in the summer of '08...almost a year and a half before she went missing in Dec of 09. Her friends had mentioned how they were getting along alot better in the past year, yet did say they were having difficulties prior...and the bankruptcy was in 2007, iirc. Then you have her seeking counseling just prior to her disappearance and giving JP ultimatums. Also, I'd have to go back and review the insurance policies again, to see how they all fit in with this. Why wouldn't she leave (in 1 1/2 yrs) if she was so afraid of him...and why didn't she tell Kiirsi, Jen or anyone else her deep seated fears of being harmed? If anyone can find info on that, please post.
Anyone know how JP was allowed to get ahold of her 401K...since she was still 'just missing'? Was it a 401K or stock investments that include his name also? TIA
eta: After reading the SW pdf, it states he acquired the monies by way of POA, so I'm 'assuming' Susan must have signed one previously or had it set up if she was ever "incapacitated" he would have the authority to take the reins so to speak. ? Anyone with other thoughts on this?
wenwe4
03-31-2012, 06:52 PM
Utah . . . I hope you have a BIG Checkbook and be ready to write a lot of zero's behind a gazillion dollar figure. I am so very angry and outraged and fed up with the gall of Utah LE. They directly placed these two boys in the path of harm and destruction! Someone needs to have their ____________ in a vice squeezing down HARD! What a travesty of Justice. Their EGO is more important that the safety and welfare of two small children who do not have the capacity to protect themselves. Furious is the best way to describe what I am feeling. I cannot envision what the powers of decision making had in mind when they did not share this info with Washington CPS. These children would have been protected, alive, and safe in their Maternal Grandparents arms with love enveloping their very souls. Instead . . . Utah made sure to give JP the ability to hatchet and burn their little bodies for his own sick and twisted motives. (off to my corner so I don't lose my control) Thanks for letting me vent . . . I really am sick about the level that Utah failed this children!
dovebar
03-31-2012, 07:15 PM
Miller may have been incompetent, but what is Gill Sims' excuse? His office was "going back and forth" and whatever....." Sims is the one who eliminated the domestic violence unit in his office, saying that DV cases should be treated no differently and with no greater priority than any others. Both of them have the blood of two little boys on their hands - who did not need to die.
DLT88
03-31-2012, 08:55 PM
Nursebeeme - It's totally, totally disgusting and so heart-breaking for Susan's family. Really, can it get any worse? Susan's family backed WVPD so strongly...
imo
I don't think this could be any worse for the Cox family. CAN I SCREAM NOW??!!!!!!
WHERE THE HELL IS THE JUSTICE??!!!! What the heck is the matter with the police in this country??!! One bungled case after the next!
RR0004
03-31-2012, 09:01 PM
Bumping the link to the warrants.
http://localtvkstu.files.wordpress.com/2012/03/steven-powell-warrants.pdf
--
From the docs:
LE found two fans had been left on, directed toward a sofa that appeared to have been recently cleaned. When asked about this, Josh explained to LE that Susan had instructed him to clean the sofa.
Blood evidence was collected from a tiled floor area adjacent to the sofa. This blood evidence was found to match Susan.
Reading the documented sequence of events from the time Susan disappeared, and the evasive lies and highly incriminating behavior of Josh in these docs -- it's just unbelievable. Not to mention the incomprehensible perversion of daddy dearest. Ugh.
And Susan's posthumously-revealed words, written when she knew she was in danger and wanted to safeguard the truth; wow, how very tragic this is! All of it.
:notgood:
Didn't the next of kin...in this case I would imagine it could be argued to be the Coxes...have a right to Susan's effects (contents of safety deposit box)? Didn't they have a right to see her Will? Do we know what was in the Will? I would doubt highly that anything belonging to her would have been left to Josh. So, is this the money (retiremant accounts) he gave to his relatives?
dog.gone.cute
03-31-2012, 09:12 PM
Are we allowed to sleuth her?
Dunno! She held a publicly elected office and is quoted in articles on this case, in addition to other matters of county business.
BBM & Snipped :
JMO ... but since she was "elected" to office, she is a 'public figure' ... so absolutely IMO she should be sleuthed !
She is accountable to the people who elected her and the 'taxpayers' who pay her salary !
MOO ...
lonetraveler
03-31-2012, 09:23 PM
So, is that the "stain" we've talked so much about? The one with the fan blowing on it? Lordy, they found her blood right next to the sofa, and still they could not take action? And a hand-written will? What does it take? A video tape of the actual deed?
WVPD needs to start looking deep within themselves...how could they take no action on the matter? Wish I could have been a fly on the wall during their various conversations when they made their decisions....I've tried to be supportive, but this news makes if very difficult.
imo
Wow, I just came home and logged in to read while I ate a piece of Key Lime Pie I brought home from the restaurant and now I don't even want it. I'm literally sick to my stomach reading that this evidence was just sat on and no action was taken to put Josh Powell behind bars. These two innocent little boys would be alive today if the DA had given the "go ahead" on this arrest. I agree with you, "What else did he need, FGS? :banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead: This DA needs to be charged with failure to do his job.
lonetraveler
03-31-2012, 09:29 PM
BBM: Would you have rather have them left with the Powells or maybe complete strangers? The Cox family loved those boys and did everything in their power to get them and keep them safe. The failure here lies with the WVPD not informing the WA authorities and DHHS of exactly what they knew. The Cox family have suffered way more than enough, at least they have the memories of the boys those last few months.
I totally agree Josh should have never been granted visitation supervised or unsupervised. Josh should have been in jail in Utah BEFORE he had the chance to move the boys to Washington to be with his sickening POS father.
I really don't think the amount of blood here matters, there was enough to do DNA. Apparently, there was enough cleaning of the blood to have the fans running to dry certain areas. Along with the blood you have all of the other evidence.
My question is why wasn't Josh arrested for tampering with evidence for removing the SIM cards from both his and Susan's phones? I mean seriously, he committed a crime by doing that.
Josh made it so obvious that he was involved in Susan's murder that Ray Charles and Helen Keller could have seen it!
I am sickened and upset after reading these search warrants. Two innocent boys are dead all to "protect the integrity" of WVPD's investigation.....Hope that whomever made that decision can sleep at night, because I sure didn't last night...
JMO, IMO, MOO, :moo::moo:, and all other disclaimers...
Very well stated. Exactly what I was thinking but you had already stated it.
hollyblue
03-31-2012, 09:47 PM
I wonder if LE checked this storage unit facility. It's 20 miles south of WVC, right off the pony express trail. He drove 20 miles south after talking to JoVonna and telling her he was in WVC. Also, I posted a map on the thread for SP showing it's exactly 400 miles to the border of ID/OR (Ontario). You can key in the destination here to see.
ETA: There is also a retention pond across the hwy (east).
West Valley City, UT to I-15 S - Google Maps
MsFacetious
03-31-2012, 10:26 PM
Okay fine, assume our incompetent people are right and there wasn't enough to convict Josh.
So, there was no arrest in sight in the near future. What should the next focus be?
Two little boys who were with a man you believed killed their mother... and you DID have enough evidence to remove them.
I don't care that they didn't arrest or charge Josh.
I care that they didn't give Washington ANYTHING to take the boys away and/or keep them away completely.
Why they didn't charge Josh, is secondary to me.
The #1 issue is why they didn't save those boys. :twocents:
MsFacetious
03-31-2012, 10:34 PM
The very last statement he made...to the affect of "trying to get strong case xxxxxxx? Was that last word OFF? What did he say? TYIA
http://www.kirotv.com/videos/news/pierce-county-sheriffs-spokesman-somebody-dropped/vGkBX/ (http://www.kirotv.com/videos/news/pierce-county-sheriffs-spokesman-somebody-dropped/vGkBX/)
He said that he believes someone rolled the dice in an effort to get a strong case and lost.
Basically chose to keep the information away from Washington hoping they could get a strong case before anything happened to the boys...
But they lost. Obviously.
teedie2
04-01-2012, 01:02 AM
Remind me not to move to West Valley City, UT ever, ever, ever.
http://www.ksl.com/?nid=148&sid=19814201 (http://www.ksl.com/?nid=148&sid=19814201)
<snip>
"Despite public scrutiny and criticism from Susan's family after Friday's press conference, the Mayor of West Valley City is standing by the police department in its investigation into the disappearance of Susan Cox Powell."
More at link, including video with the mayor speaking.
I could puke.
Vhead
04-01-2012, 01:27 AM
This is all just shameful. Scott peterson was arrested, tried and sentenced to death with no blood of Laci in the house... It's too late for regrets... But dang. Those boys could be alive today if they had acted on the obvious evidence that he murdered the mother of his children. Sad!
Sent from my iPhone
dovebar
04-01-2012, 02:06 AM
Remind me not to move to West Valley City, UT ever, ever, ever.
http://www.ksl.com/?nid=148&sid=19814201 (http://www.ksl.com/?nid=148&sid=19814201)
<snip>
"Despite public scrutiny and criticism from Susan's family after Friday's press conference, the Mayor of West Valley City is standing by the police department in its investigation into the disappearance of Susan Cox Powell."
More at link, including video with the mayor speaking.
I could puke.
Winder is a former PR exec who lost his job for writing phony articles under an assumed name, quoting himself and using a phony picture. A real prince of integrity - with probable gubernatorial ambitions. Old-time Utah family, and note he says, "When you're in the legal community...." I believe he is related to the prominent law firm in SLC by the same name. Someone correct me if I'm wrong. So all these boys need to keep their standing in the "legal community" and that's their priority.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_K._Winder
Desdemona
04-01-2012, 02:39 AM
Agree. I'm also confused because the one MSM report says the blood evidence was found on the comforter from the storage unit, and the then the other says on the floor.
There is a lot that does not jive, imo, but I'm going to review all of the MSM reporting before listing. I had asked numerous times-- and even the reporters-- on the descrepancy of what was found on the bed...phone, keys, and purse because the reporting had not be consistant (in many articles).
And if her cell was in the van....why couldn't they track it's pings to where he had been? Did he remove the battery? IMO, upon finding a shovel, a tarp and a gas can in the van, that was enough for any jury to convict with all the other circumtantial evidence, imo. No trace evidence of "crystals" on that shovel...and the tire tracks? No DNA of Susan on that tarp? :banghead:
More later..I'm not sure if anyone has answered some of these questions... here's what MSM is saying.
1. A comforter found in the Powell's storage unit in Washington after his and the boys' deaths tested positive for blood:
SEATTLE – Police in Washington state who searched a storage unit rented by Josh Powell found a stained comforter that tested positive for blood in initial exams, according to documents filed in court Friday.
Pierce County detectives reported finding a gray-blue comforter with a stain. The search warrant documents say the comforter tested positive for blood. Investigators planned to perform further tests.
Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/02/10/comforter-in-powell-family-storage-unit-tests-positive-for-blood-police-say/#ixzz1qle0c4hu
2. The blood that was identified as Susan's (apparently very early on!) was found by investigators searching the Powell home in Utah, shortly after her disappearance. It was found on the tiled floor near a couch that had been cleaned.
Shortly after Susan Powell disappeared, authorities found blood evidence on a floor next to a sofa and determined that it was Susan Powell's. The sofa appeared to have been recently cleaned, and two fans had been set up to blow on it.
Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/03/31/documents-show-evidence-piled-up-in-utah-disappearance/#ixzz1qlekbYMV
3. As to which of Susan's belongings the Utah LE found in the bedroom upon Susan's disappearance (not sure about them being found on the bed itself):
Susan Powell's purse, keys, credit cards and other belongings were found in the couple's master bedroom.
Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/03/31/documents-show-evidence-piled-up-in-utah-disappearance/#ixzz1qlfEuCwZ
4. Her cell phone was found in the console of the family SUV, switched OFF, and with the Sim card removed.
An investigation of Powell’s vehicle found a generator, blankets, a gas can, tarps and a shovel. Susan Powell’s cell phone was found in the center console of the car in the off position.
“We believe that Josh intentionally removed that SIM card from the cell phone in an effort to thwart investigators,” Sgt. Mike Powell told reporters.
http://fox13now.com/2012/03/30/steven-powell-due-in-court-today/
HTH
gitana1
04-01-2012, 02:48 AM
Frankly, I wish I had not signed on and read this tonight. I was having such a good day.
Remember that ridiculous search in the desert, at the mines when they invited the media along on a wild goose chase? I posted that they seemed like Keystone Cops. ETA: But I also wondered if perhaps I was missing something and they had good reasons for doing what they were doing.
Reading this, it looks like they were just Keystone cops.
This is a disgrace.
rbrnmw2
04-01-2012, 02:58 AM
Saw this on the front page and I'm sick, angry, and heartbroken Poor Susan Josh Powell was evil incarnate and now we find they probably had probable cause to make an arrest and Charlie and Braden would be alive if they had MOO :maddening::banghead::furious:
Desdemona
04-01-2012, 03:00 AM
I'm having a little trouble with the letter/will and testament, just because it was dated in the summer of '08...almost a year and a half before she went missing in Dec of 09. Her friends had mentioned how they were getting along alot better in the past year, yet did say they were having difficulties prior...and the bankruptcy was in 2007, iirc. Then you have her seeking counseling just prior to her disappearance and giving JP ultimatums. Also, I'd have to go back and review the insurance policies again, to see how they all fit in with this. Why wouldn't she leave (in 1 1/2 yrs) if she was so afraid of him...and why didn't she tell Kiirsi, Jen or anyone else her deep seated fears of being harmed? If anyone can find info on that, please post.
<RSBM> BBM
I'll preface my reply with: Please, let us all avoid religious criticism/arguments and LDS bashing. Please. Okay? Okay. Thanks.
However, I would ever so tactfully point out in answer to your query here that as a rule LDS spouses are generally encouraged and counseled by their church advisors to work diligently to sustain their marriages and to consider divorce only as a last-ditch effort.
Many articles at this link:
http://www.lds.org/ldsorg/v/index.jsp?locale=0&sourceId=1d7f0bbce1d98010VgnVCM1000004d82620a____&vgnextoid=bbd508f54922d010VgnVCM1000004d82620aRCRD
Disclaimer:
I bring this up only because it has been reported that Susan sought advice from her church counselor, and that the ultimatum/conditions you mention had to do with Josh returning to regular attendance and participation in the church.
Here is a report from the Deseret News in Salt Lake City, written just a couple of weeks after Susan disappeared in Dec. of 2009:
When Josh and Susan Powell were first married, both were very active in the LDS Church, Petersen said. They were sealed in the temple. But once they moved to Utah, Josh Powell stopped attending church.
Petersen said the Powells' marriage counselor instructed Susan Powell to set specific goals. Susan Powell told her husband that her goal was for him to become active in the church again by the end of 2009 and to have his temple recommend again by their anniversary in the spring. Otherwise, she was going to divorce him and take the children, Petersen said.
http://www.deseretnews.com/article/705353673/Powell-took-his-time-getting-home-neighbor-says.html?pg=2
That could, in part, explain why Susan stuck it out for so long. And IMO Josh's failure to meet the conditions may have been a trigger for what befell poor Susan. JMO
gitana1
04-01-2012, 03:20 AM
I'm having a little trouble with the letter/will and testament, just because it was dated in the summer of '08...almost a year and a half before she went missing in Dec of 09. Her friends had mentioned how they were getting along alot better in the past year, yet did say they were having difficulties prior...and the bankruptcy was in 2007, iirc. Then you have her seeking counseling just prior to her disappearance and giving JP ultimatums. Also, I'd have to go back and review the insurance policies again, to see how they all fit in with this. Why wouldn't she leave (in 1 1/2 yrs) if she was so afraid of him...and why didn't she tell Kiirsi, Jen or anyone else her deep seated fears of being harmed? If anyone can find info on that, please post.
Anyone know how JP was allowed to get ahold of her 401K...since she was still 'just missing'? Was it a 401K or stock investments that include his name also? TIA
eta: After reading the SW pdf, it states he acquired the monies by way of POA, so I'm 'assuming' Susan must have signed one previously or had it set up if she was ever "incapacitated" he would have the authority to take the reins so to speak. ? Anyone with other thoughts on this?
If she had left him, she knew he would get unsupervised visits with the kids, Knowing him the way she did, that was probably enough to keep her there to protect them.
In the end, her fears were justified. She didn't even leave him yet, he "destroyed" her and her sons.
As far as why she didn't tell anyone, IIRC, she did voice some of her fears to her friends and family. Her family urged her to have a secret bank account, also IIRC, as a result.
She knew this monster. She had a gut feeling as to what he was capable of, based on knowing him, and based on her feelings. But telling a court that he said, "If you leave me, I'll destroy and the kids will have no parents" would have been unlikely to restrict his visitation rights to his kids much. He seemed good at hiding his real self from most people. Susan would have had a very difficult time protecting herself or her kids had she tried to leave earlier, based on her feelings and an allegation as to what he stated would happen if she tried to leave. The court would have demanded much more.
CarolinaMoon
04-01-2012, 06:48 AM
Those DA's were looking for the "smoking gun" (Susan's body) to make their case 100% air-tight to just about guarantee a "guilty" notch on their belts. Given the vast wasteland and abandoned mines in their search areas, I have sincere doubts her body would ever be found.
Yet, at that point, they had formidible evidence that Susan was dead, including a 4-year-old witness who told them that she had gone on the camping trip and was dead. Even excluding the last will and hearsay evidence, they could have made a powerful case based on the facts they had at hand.
They could not have asked friends and relatives what Susan said to them, but they could have said what they told Susan to do, such as set up a secret bank account, etc. It was a winnable case, but it would have taken some serious talent on behalf of the prosecution.
Just ask Shakara Dickens, who was recently found guilty of 2nd degree murder and other charges in the death of her infant daughter, Lauryn on much less evidence.
The case is notable because the child’s body has never been found.
http://wreg.com/2012/03/23/verdict-in-shakara-dickens-murder-trial/
I have to wonder if they even considered the plight of Charle and Braden, living with the man who murdered their mother.
All the above is MHO, MOO: my thoughts only.
concentric
04-01-2012, 08:31 AM
If she had left him, she knew he would get unsupervised visits with the kids, Knowing him the way she did, that was probably enough to keep her there to protect them.
In the end, her fears were justified. She didn't even leave him yet, he "destroyed" her and her sons.
As far as why she didn't tell anyone, IIRC, she did voice some of her fears to her friends and family. Her family urged her to have a secret bank account, also IIRC, as a result.
She knew this monster. She had a gut feeling as to what he was capable of, based on knowing him, and based on her feelings. But telling a court that he said, "If you leave me, I'll destroy and the kids will have no parents" would have been unlikely to restrict his visitation rights to his kids much. He seemed good at hiding his real self from most people. Susan would have had a very difficult time protecting herself or her kids had she tried to leave earlier, based on her feelings and an allegation as to what he stated would happen if she tried to leave. The court would have demanded much more.
------------
I agree with you, gitana1. I am pretty sure that Susan "saw the writing on the wall" (figure of speech) so to speak.
I said much the same thing in my post #65, 2-9-12:
IMO, the reason why some mothers stay in marriages where they are abused, is because they want to physically be there to protect their children. They know that the court will probably order visitations with the father (who is abusive to them), and at those times, the mothers will have no way to protect their children.
This could be the reason Susan stayed, even though she recognized that she was in imminent danger for her own life.
Jacie Estes
04-01-2012, 08:47 AM
I'm not sure if anyone has answered some of these questions... here's what MSM is saying.
1. A comforter found in the Powell's storage unit in Washington after his and the boys' deaths tested positive for blood:
SEATTLE – Police in Washington state who searched a storage unit rented by Josh Powell found a stained comforter that tested positive for blood in initial exams, according to documents filed in court Friday.
Pierce County detectives reported finding a gray-blue comforter with a stain. The search warrant documents say the comforter tested positive for blood. Investigators planned to perform further tests.
Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/02/10/comforter-in-powell-family-storage-unit-tests-positive-for-blood-police-say/#ixzz1qle0c4hu
2. The blood that was identified as Susan's (apparently very early on!) was found by investigators searching the Powell home in Utah, shortly after her disappearance. It was found on the tiled floor near a couch that had been cleaned.
Shortly after Susan Powell disappeared, authorities found blood evidence on a floor next to a sofa and determined that it was Susan Powell's. The sofa appeared to have been recently cleaned, and two fans had been set up to blow on it.
Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/03/31/documents-show-evidence-piled-up-in-utah-disappearance/#ixzz1qlekbYMV
3. As to which of Susan's belongings the Utah LE found in the bedroom upon Susan's disappearance (not sure about them being found on the bed itself):
Susan Powell's purse, keys, credit cards and other belongings were found in the couple's master bedroom.
Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/03/31/documents-show-evidence-piled-up-in-utah-disappearance/#ixzz1qlfEuCwZ
4. Her cell phone was found in the console of the family SUV, switched OFF, and with the Sim card removed.
An investigation of Powell’s vehicle found a generator, blankets, a gas can, tarps and a shovel. Susan Powell’s cell phone was found in the center console of the car in the off position.
“We believe that Josh intentionally removed that SIM card from the cell phone in an effort to thwart investigators,” Sgt. Mike Powell told reporters.
http://fox13now.com/2012/03/30/steven-powell-due-in-court-today/
HTH
BBM In the conversation josh had with a neighbour soon after Susan went missing, he said that he had to buy a new comforter. He also had to but a new phone; what else did he get at WalMart? He gave clues, almost as if he were taunting people.
BritsKate
04-01-2012, 08:59 AM
Facts about domestic violence:
- On average a victim leaves their abuser 7 times before they are able to permanently end the relationship.
- Emotional (also known as psychological and/or verbal) abuse is often not only misunderstood but also minimized. I can see many in Susan's immediate circle unknowingly excusing or justifying Josh's abuse.
- There are many reasons a victim stays with her abuser but among the most common are: fear of losing custody; the abuser having unrestricted access to the children; lack of resources such as funds or housing; fear of the abuse escalating even more; condemnation of friends and family, etc.
- 75-80% of victims leaving, or preparing to leave, domestic abuse will die at the hands of their abuser. This is actually the #1 reason victims do stay.
- Because of the nature of emotional abuse it is very easy for even the victims to minimize, justify and excuse their abuser's actions - often doubting their own perceptions in the process. Few realize that emotional abuse can be every bit as deadly as physical abuse.
- Michelle Young was in an emotionally abusive marriage. Michelle had one, just one, counseling session with a therapist who identified her marriage as verbally abusive before her husband battered her to death.
----------
I am honestly convinced if societal and judicial opinions were to change about domestic violence we wouldn't see as many cases like these as we do.
The abusers often have family law statutes on their side. Society still condones victims - e.g. 'If she was so afraid'; 'If he were really that bad' when in reality we should be asking why, if we know there is a 50-60% overlap between domestic violence and child abuse; if we know that emotional abuse can lead to physical abuse and/or murder; and if we know that victims of domestic violence (especially emotional) are often left without any legal recourse against their abuser why our laws aren't changing as well. Unfortunately even when a victim does have access to legal remedies (because his/her abuse was 'bad' enough) domestically violent offenders are still being offered lesser sentences, dropped charges, etc.
MOO and FWIW
Just K
04-01-2012, 09:41 AM
Facts about domestic violence:
- On average a victim leaves their abuser 7 times before they are able to permanently end the relationship.
- Emotional (also known as psychological and/or verbal) abuse is often not only misunderstood but also minimized. I can see many in Susan's immediate circle unknowingly excusing or justifying Josh's abuse.
- There are many reasons a victim stays with her abuser but among the most common are: fear of losing custody; the abuser having unrestricted access to the children; lack of resources such as funds or housing; fear of the abuse escalating even more; condemnation of friends and family, etc.
- 75-80% of victims leaving, or preparing to leave, domestic abuse will die at the hands of their abuser. This is actually the #1 reason victims do stay.
- Because of the nature of emotional abuse it is very easy for even the victims to minimize, justify and excuse their abuser's actions - often doubting their own perceptions in the process. Few realize that emotional abuse can be every bit as deadly as physical abuse.
- Michelle Young was in an emotionally abusive marriage. Michelle had one, just one, counseling session with a therapist who identified her marriage as verbally abusive before her husband battered her to death.
----------
I am honestly convinced if societal and judicial opinions were to change about domestic violence we wouldn't see as many cases like these as we do.
The abusers often have family law statutes on their side. Society still condones victims - e.g. 'If she was so afraid'; 'If he were really that bad' when in reality we should be asking why, if we know there is a 50-60% overlap between domestic violence and child abuse; if we know that emotional abuse can lead to physical abuse and/or murder; and if we know that victims of domestic violence (especially emotional) are often left without any legal recourse against their abuser why our laws aren't changing as well. Unfortunately even when a victim does have access to legal remedies (because his/her abuse was 'bad' enough) domestically violent offenders are still being offered lesser sentences, dropped charges, etc.
MOO and FWIW
Thanks for this info. Just want to clarify the "75-80%" comment:
That number is in reference to the percentage of homicides due to DV. Of those victims of DV that are murdered, approximately 75% were either in the act of leaving or had already left.
There are substantially higher numbers of victims of domestic violence that are not killed by their abusers then those who are. But when a victim of DV is killed by their abuser it is most often when they are in the act of leaving or have already left.
https://www.google.com/search?q=75%25+victims+domestic+violence++killed+w hen+leaving&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a
oceanblueeyes
04-01-2012, 09:42 AM
It isn't uncommon for a woman to keep her torturous life hidden from those she loves. In fact it is more common than a rarity. I imagine Susan had great fear of what would happen to her, her boys and to her parents if she dared breathe a word about what kind of life she was having to endure with Josh Powell.
I have no doubt Josh Powell told Susan if she ever crossed him he would kill her and the boys. Abusers control by fear and intimidation and as sadistic and cruel as JP was it had to be so frightening for Susan.
I have been so outraged by what LE had all this time that I have been unable to even post about it until now.
In the Scott Peterson trial they had less circumstantial evidence than LE had in Susan's case and he sits on death row. To know they sat on this all this time and let these two precious boys be slaughtered by their father is unforgivable.
Imo, LE and the DA has the blood of those two boys on their hands.
And to know they had all this evidence all this time and didnt even go to a family Judge to stop JP from even being around his children is another unforgivable act, imo.
IMO
Kimster
04-01-2012, 10:12 AM
This article broke my heart. The system now has blood on their hands.
Kiirsi will be a guest on Websleuths Radio tonight. I should have the chat room open about a half an hour before the show. You can listen live by following the link on my signature line.
BetteDavisEyes
04-01-2012, 10:47 AM
I heard about the latest developments in the case yesterday on CNN and our local news at 11:00 last night :frown: While it's too late to save Susan and her boys, I think some heads should roll for "protecting the integrity of (the) investigation" :rolleyes: while doing nothing to protect those little guys :cry:
hollyblue
04-01-2012, 11:30 AM
<RSBM> BBM
I'll preface my reply with: Please, let us all avoid religious criticism/arguments and LDS bashing. Please. Okay? Okay. Thanks.
However, I would ever so tactfully point out in answer to your query here that as a rule LDS spouses are generally encouraged and counseled by their church advisors to work diligently to sustain their marriages and to consider divorce only as a last-ditch effort.
Many articles at this link:
http://www.lds.org/ldsorg/v/index.jsp?locale=0&sourceId=1d7f0bbce1d98010VgnVCM1000004d82620a____&vgnextoid=bbd508f54922d010VgnVCM1000004d82620aRCRD
Disclaimer:
I bring this up only because it has been reported that Susan sought advice from her church counselor, and that the ultimatum/conditions you mention had to do with Josh returning to regular attendance and participation in the church.
Here is a report from the Deseret News in Salt Lake City, written just a couple of weeks after Susan disappeared in Dec. of 2009:
When Josh and Susan Powell were first married, both were very active in the LDS Church, Petersen said. They were sealed in the temple. But once they moved to Utah, Josh Powell stopped attending church.
Petersen said the Powells' marriage counselor instructed Susan Powell to set specific goals. Susan Powell told her husband that her goal was for him to become active in the church again by the end of 2009 and to have his temple recommend again by their anniversary in the spring. Otherwise, she was going to divorce him and take the children, Petersen said.
http://www.deseretnews.com/article/705353673/Powell-took-his-time-getting-home-neighbor-says.html?pg=2
That could, in part, explain why Susan stuck it out for so long. And IMO Josh's failure to meet the conditions may have been a trigger for what befell poor Susan. JMO
:what: Whoa, hold on and please read again. I was NOT and DID NOT reference the religion AT ALL! Sorry, your assumption was incorrect. I have followed this case from the beginning, and know she was getting counseling through the church and wanted JP to participate.. he didn't; BUT, this was a full year and a half after she had written the letter of her fears of direct harm from him. I just can't imagine a counselor...LDS or private sector to persuade her to stay in a marriage where she had been verbally threaten by her spouse (if she revealed it). From everything I read and iirc, she was more concerned about JP becoming active again...as in your referenced article. Why wait that time period and not seek help when it first transpired and beyond her fears, she gave him that ultimatum. Who gives ultimatums to some one your deadly afraid of? It just appears her actions were not a congruency. :moo:
hollyblue
04-01-2012, 11:52 AM
If she had left him, she knew he would get unsupervised visits with the kids, Knowing him the way she did, that was probably enough to keep her there to protect them.
In the end, her fears were justified. She didn't even leave him yet, he "destroyed" her and her sons.
As far as why she didn't tell anyone, IIRC, she did voice some of her fears to her friends and family. Her family urged her to have a secret bank account, also IIRC, as a result.
She knew this monster. She had a gut feeling as to what he was capable of, based on knowing him, and based on her feelings. But telling a court that he said, "If you leave me, I'll destroy and the kids will have no parents" would have been unlikely to restrict his visitation rights to his kids much. He seemed good at hiding his real self from most people. Susan would have had a very difficult time protecting herself or her kids had she tried to leave earlier, based on her feelings and an allegation as to what he stated would happen if she tried to leave. The court would have demanded much more.
That certainly makes sense...all be it....sick as it as. Change is a must. I just wish she would have left and sought counsel who would have been adamant in their defense. I'm to the point, I don't think anything besides going completely under the radar would have saved her or the boys...ever. What a sick predatory nature these two Powell's had!! :sigh:
ohiogirl
04-01-2012, 12:56 PM
Frankly, I wish I had not signed on and read this tonight. I was having such a good day.
Remember that ridiculous search in the desert, at the mines when they invited the media along on a wild goose chase? I posted that they seemed like Keystone Cops. ETA: But I also wondered if perhaps I was missing something and they had good reasons for doing what they were doing.
Reading this, it looks like they were just Keystone cops.
This is a disgrace.
All that hoopla about the search. I wonder if that was another attempt to get under JP's skin and force him to do something. They ended up bringing him to the event of murdering his sons! I can't believe that none of this came up in the custody hearings. He never should have been allowed any kind of visitation, and WV LE knew it!
BritsKate
04-01-2012, 12:59 PM
------------
I agree with you, gitana1. I am pretty sure that Susan "saw the writing on the wall" (figure of speech) so to speak.
I said much the same thing in my post #65, 2-9-12:
IMO, the reason why some mothers stay in marriages where they are abused, is because they want to physically be there to protect their children. They know that the court will probably order visitations with the father (who is abusive to them), and at those times, the mothers will have no way to protect their children.
This could be the reason Susan stayed, even though she recognized that she was in imminent danger for her own life.
From experience I couldn't agree more. Most states ensure shared parenting rights by both parties until such time as it is proven to not be in the child's best interests. For me it meant months of allowing my kiddos to be with their father unsupervised. I knew he was dangerous and volatile but to the court it apparently appeared a he said/she said.
The burden of proof is especially high when abuse isn't physical. Despite a restraining order, past evidence of DV and a lengthy psych history for my ex his rights as a parent trumped everything else. It wasn't until he attempted suicide in front of his then 12 year old daughter that the court ordered family supervised visitation. 9 months after that his visitation rights were suspended indefinitely after he plead guilty to drugging and raping his 14 year old niece.
Laws should not be designed to only retroactively protect children. :(
I hate to ask this question, but do killers usually use the same methods? Thinking of the blood and gas can.
I'm sorry, I can't believe I typed that. But I was thinking about how they searched that burnt area not all that long ago.
mysticrose
04-01-2012, 01:05 PM
I still have not been able to comment on this new news, two words : utter disbelief ....
CarolinaMoon
04-01-2012, 02:37 PM
I hate to ask this question, but do killers usually use the same methods? Thinking of the blood and gas can.
I'm sorry, I can't believe I typed that. But I was thinking about how they searched that burnt area not all that long ago.
I've been thinking the same thing. A vivid imagination makes me re-interpret the campfire and s'mores.
Awful to have this come to mind.
mysteriew
04-01-2012, 02:51 PM
I understand that the amount of blood that was found may have been insufficient to charge JP with murder. Even with the totality of the evidence, a small amount of blood and no body may have been felt to be insufficient to prove that Susan was dead.
But Susan's blood being found, and the news sealed. The type and extent of the porn found on JP's computer being sealed. All things that would have been evaluated in considering custody and visitation for the kids.
I can't help but wonder if these facts were known, would that have affected the visitation of the kids? The courts really need to review these facts. They need to reevaluate their procedures in custody/visitation cases. Why couldn't these sealed facts have been submitted to the court, with the juvenile court continuing the seal?
Jacie Estes
04-01-2012, 03:02 PM
I've been thinking the same thing. A vivid imagination makes me re-interpret the campfire and s'mores.
Awful to have this come to mind.
Your post made me think about josh's appearance on video in the beginning. He looked scared in the vid of him leaving the police station clutching Charlie and flat out dumb in the blue cap interview, as he was getting out of the rental car. How much assistance did he have from daddy dearest or is he a 'Sybil'? His demeanor and 'psychopath murderer' are incongruous. IMHO
hollyblue
04-01-2012, 03:15 PM
BBM In the conversation josh had with a neighbour soon after Susan went missing, he said that he had to buy a new comforter. He also had to but a new phone; what else did he get at WalMart? He gave clues, almost as if he were taunting people.
We talked about his gloves and if he had thown them away and purchased new ones back then because of the redness of his hands.
** In the WA search warrant, LE took a pair of gloves from the home.
dovebar
04-01-2012, 03:22 PM
We talked about his gloves and if he had thown them away and purchased new ones back then because of the redness of his hands.
** In the WA search warrant, LE took a pair of gloves from the home.
Given the fire in the house, it now seems safe to assume he got rid of them because they had some kind of accelerant on them, plus probably blood or vomit. It was also probably difficult to do what he was doing wearing them, so his hands faced prolonged exposure. Then he probably scrubbed them at the motel where they went for breakfast, so that no blood or hairs would be transported back, no residue of anything could be found in his home, not even in the drain traps. Most motels have a bathroom accessible in a hall right near the breakfast area.
dovebar
04-01-2012, 03:34 PM
Why wait that time period and not seek help when it first transpired and beyond her fears, she gave him that ultimatum. Who gives ultimatums to some one your deadly afraid of? It just appears her actions were not a congruency. :moo:
I could not agree MORE. I believe Susan got very, very, very bad advice, from what we know about her counseling. This is the central element we still don't dignify in women - the ability to know, and say, that you are in danger and will be leaving now.
Melissa Jenkins: "knew" the Prues were dangerous, had turned down interaction in the past, but "had" to go help them, she felt, because that's what nice women do.
Susan Powell, knew her husband had threatened her and the boys, wrote that down, was encouraged to "work on it," and felt she needed/wanted to do that. What we need to convey to girls is that violence has nothing to do with what you "want" - we all would like our marriages to work out and to be loved back by the people we are loving to. Reality bites. Once you are threatened, THAT IS THE WARNING. Go then, go now, solve the problems down the road from a safe distance. If it was an aggressive dog, if it was a cougar in your back yard, you wouldn't continue to go out into the yard and say, "I'm just going to throw it meat continually and treat it nicely and SURELY, SURELY, it will become more friendly to me."
In Susan's case, she apparently had multiple parties assisting her, encouraging her, to ignore what she knew, in her body.
And here's a big flag to me about the counseling: you don't set goals for other people. You can assist children to set their goals. Adults set their own goals. Josh's goals were obvious; Susan's counselor just didn't want to admit that. You can only set goals for yourself and convey what YOU need - a temple marriage, consistent church attendance. You can only set a deadline for yourself, by which time you will not be able to go forward, in this same arrangement, with this person.
Another big flag: you don't give ultimatums to people who have expressed violence against you. Among the parties who have a lot to answer for, I think her counselor has gotten off very easy, and I would be fascinated to find out who that person was and what their real professional expertise was. No qualified counselor I can think of would recommend these things.
BetteDavisEyes
04-01-2012, 03:38 PM
I still have not been able to comment on this new news, two words : utter disbelief ....
That's exactly how I felt when I heard about the investigative file on the Susan Powell case, and it made me :sick: Integrity of the investigation? Give me a frickin' break :eek: There was more than enough evidence to arrest and charge Josh Powell in his wifes's "disappearance". At the very least, those little boys should have been removed from Josh's home and placed in protective custody. :moo:
wenwe4
04-01-2012, 03:53 PM
WVPD had enough evidence to involve CPS in Utah (IMO) and have the children placed into foster care/relative care at that time. I highly doubt that Utah LE even shared the info (with Utah CPS) about what they found on Josh's computers and in his home at the time of Susan's disappearance. If there was no cooperation between those two agencies, there would be NO cooperation with another State CPS agency from the get go. From the information I have garnered . . . Utah CPS was never involved with these boys at any time following Susan's disappearance which gave more credence to Josh not being involved with CPS in Washington. Washington CPS only became involved because of Grandpa Steve's porn and voyuerism etc. Washington's CPS case was only based upon the threat that Grandpa Steve and his home posed to the boys. Washington was set up to fail these children by Utah LE - from the beginning. I would like to tie up the Utah case failures with a great big Bow and present it to the world! A big bow for their EGO's!
Amster
04-01-2012, 04:03 PM
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/04/01/father-missing-utah-mom-susan-powell-wants-police-to-keep-looking/
:tears:
dovebar
04-01-2012, 04:17 PM
I think both SP and JP show a lot of awareness of corrections and cops, and how to make an investigation complicated in terms of jurisdiction, acing out social workers, etc. To me, it's not intelligence so much as a lot of time spent talking online with other sex offenders, people from organizations who find "man-boy love" all normal and cute. JP didn't need to go into work, he just sent his boss in WA work online, so he had a lot of flexible time to chat online. It's not like he had healthy hobbies like training for a marathon, that would have involved him with normal people.
Given that, I think at least SP and possibly JP or other family members may have other court records we don't know about. Do we know whether SP's work computer in WA has been seized? How about a computer JP might have used as a real estate agent in Utah? Did the motel where he and the kids were seen have a "business center"? Has its computer been searched? How about the public library computers closest to SP's home in WA? Internet cafes nearby? How many 24-hour FedEx Kinko's between WVC and Tremonton and Yakima, any?
Desdemona
04-01-2012, 04:44 PM
:what: Whoa, hold on and please read again. I was NOT and DID NOT reference the religion AT ALL! Sorry, your assumption was incorrect. I have followed this case from the beginning, and know she was getting counseling through the church and wanted JP to participate.. he didn't; BUT, this was a full year and a half after she had written the letter of her fears of direct harm from him. I just can't imagine a counselor...LDS or private sector to persuade her to stay in a marriage where she had been verbally threaten by her spouse (if she revealed it). From everything I read and iirc, she was more concerned about JP becoming active again...as in your referenced article. Why wait that time period and not seek help when it first transpired and beyond her fears, she gave him that ultimatum. Who gives ultimatums to some one your deadly afraid of? It just appears her actions were not a congruency. :moo:I assure you, I did not mean to imply that you had introduced the religion angle! *I* am the one who brought it up! Me. I'm sorry you misunderstood. The "please, let's not" was not directed at you. It was my attempt to preemptively squelch LDS bashing that might ensue (as has happened in the past), because of me bringing it up. My bad for not making that clearer.
I actually read your OP very carefully and in fact noted that you did not refer to the church at all. The wrong assumption I apparently did make was to infer from that, that you might not be aware of (or might have forgotten, because it's been awhile) early reports of the church-related influence which allegedly resulted in Susan's ultimatum to Josh. Which is why I introduced it -- to suggest a possible answer to your question about why she stuck it out for so long; that ultimatum involved a deadline of the end of 2009.
Again, the topic originated with me, not you and I did not mean to imply otherwise. Apologies to you and others for the confusion and the O/T.
(Link to the post hollyblue is referencing)
Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Susan Powell's Blood Was Found In Her Home
Desdemona
04-01-2012, 04:53 PM
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/04/01/father-missing-utah-mom-susan-powell-wants-police-to-keep-looking/
:tears:
Heartbreaking.
From the link:
Chuck Cox acknowledges that his daughter is likely dead, but says he continues to hope that police will recover her body, Fox 13’s Good Day Utah weekend edition reported.
“I want them to keep looking,” Cox told the station. “I want to look around here, I want to look down there (in Utah). I want to look anywhere where Steve or Josh would have access. They’ve had two years to move the body. She could be anywhere.”
Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/04/01/father-missing-utah-mom-susan-powell-wants-police-to-keep-looking/#ixzz1qpAEqhcB
passionflower
04-01-2012, 05:04 PM
I hate to ask this question, but do killers usually use the same methods? Thinking of the blood and gas can.
I'm sorry, I can't believe I typed that. But I was thinking about how they searched that burnt area not all that long ago.
I remember his hands, we thought chapped by snow or something, burning
all night in the cold? Was his hands burnt?
meganx3xo
04-01-2012, 06:13 PM
Execution of a Search Warrant
A search warrant must be executed within ten days from the date of its issuance. The person whose property is seized or searched must be given a copy of the search warrant, including the affidavit, and an inventory of any property taken.
http://www.utcourts.gov/courts/just/onlinelearning/Warrants/requirements.htm
The way I take that is that Josh had to have known what was taken, so he could figure out what they found- blood in the living room, etc. Josh also had to know that the police were going after him for Susan's murder. Other than hiding this information from the public, WHAT were they protecting?? Why couldn't they tell the Judge in Washington about Susan's handwritten will? Why couldn't they tell them about the blood? Why couldn't they tell the judge he was uncooperative?
IMO, Susan's handwritten will could and should have saved her boys lives. I doubt Washington would have leaked it, and if Josh was given a copy of materials/ items seized, as Susan's next of kin (at that time) wouldn't he have at least known the will existed when LE found it?
JMO.
Tugela
04-01-2012, 08:46 PM
The blood was just a small part of the evidence, they had an overwhelming amount.
Apparently not.
Herding Cats
04-01-2012, 10:11 PM
I keep coming here to post something. Anything.
I got nothing.
Best-
Herding Cats
Allusonz
04-02-2012, 01:54 AM
I could not agree MORE. I believe Susan got very, very, very bad advice, from what we know about her counseling. This is the central element we still don't dignify in women - the ability to know, and say, that you are in danger and will be leaving now.
Melissa Jenkins: "knew" the Prues were dangerous, had turned down interaction in the past, but "had" to go help them, she felt, because that's what nice women do.
Susan Powell, knew her husband had threatened her and the boys, wrote that down, was encouraged to "work on it," and felt she needed/wanted to do that. What we need to convey to girls is that violence has nothing to do with what you "want" - we all would like our marriages to work out and to be loved back by the people we are loving to. Reality bites. Once you are threatened, THAT IS THE WARNING. Go then, go now, solve the problems down the road from a safe distance. If it was an aggressive dog, if it was a cougar in your back yard, you wouldn't continue to go out into the yard and say, "I'm just going to throw it meat continually and treat it nicely and SURELY, SURELY, it will become more friendly to me."
In Susan's case, she apparently had multiple parties assisting her, encouraging her, to ignore what she knew, in her body.
And here's a big flag to me about the counseling: you don't set goals for other people. You can assist children to set their goals. Adults set their own goals. Josh's goals were obvious; Susan's counselor just didn't want to admit that. You can only set goals for yourself and convey what YOU need - a temple marriage, consistent church attendance. You can only set a deadline for yourself, by which time you will not be able to go forward, in this same arrangement, with this person.
Another big flag: you don't give ultimatums to people who have expressed violence against you. Among the parties who have a lot to answer for, I think her counselor has gotten off very easy, and I would be fascinated to find out who that person was and what their real professional expertise was. No qualified counselor I can think of would recommend these things.
I would like to add some additional red flags.
The Powell website.
LE announcing remains may of been found.
Threatening to release Susan's journals.
The confrontation after LE encouraged Susan's family to raise awareness regarding Susan missing.
SP being arrested.
There are many more but the pressure could be seen building in JP and SP.
ozazure
04-02-2012, 01:57 AM
Boggles my mind. You'd think that the pile of incriminating facts would tip the scale for an arrest. Alone, maybe nothing is enough and would just be a distracting and confusing fact if a person was indeed innocent, but together, the ridiculous camping trip, missing work "forgetting" what day it was, Susan's phone without her sim in his car, clean up evidence and Susan's written statement ... Oh well, I guess I thought Casey Anthony was going down for sure too.
waltzingmatilda
04-02-2012, 07:58 AM
msnbc.com Video Player
I am heartsick over these new revelations. Mr & Mrs Cox were on TODAY and they stated that Susan 'stayed too long'. :(
wm
ohiogirl
04-02-2012, 08:57 AM
That's exactly how I felt when I heard about the investigative file on the Susan Powell case, and it made me :sick: Integrity of the investigation? Give me a frickin' break :eek: There was more than enough evidence to arrest and charge Josh Powell in his wifes's "disappearance". At the very least, those little boys should have been removed from Josh's home and placed in protective custody. :moo:
There should have been a way to bring this all out at the custody hearing so JP never would have been allowed visitation. Wv LE truly dropped the ball on this one and they really pi@@ me off!
pharmchick
04-02-2012, 10:48 AM
Utah Mayor Defends Police Handling of Susan Powell Case (from komonews.com) (http://www.komonews.com/news/local/Utah-mayor-defends-police-handling-of-Susan-Powell-case--145650535.html)
"But Winder pointed out that Washington State authorities were ultimately responsible for the safety of the two boys."
Yes, because you let their father leave the state and remain a free man with access to them, in spite of all the evidence against him. The "blame someone else" mentality upsets me in individuals, and is just deplorable in public agencies which should be even more accountable, imo. Vomit. This new info is really getting to me.
SurfieTX
04-02-2012, 11:01 AM
http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/video/susan-powell-missing-blood-found-husband-josh-powells-16053482?tab=9482931§ion=1206833
Susan Powell Missing: Blood Found in Husband's Home
Nancy Grace and Dan Abrams on evidence in case of missing Utah woman.
Thorkim
04-02-2012, 02:17 PM
Utah Mayor Defends Police Handling of Susan Powell Case (from komonews.com) (http://www.komonews.com/news/local/Utah-mayor-defends-police-handling-of-Susan-Powell-case--145650535.html)
"But Winder pointed out that Washington State authorities were ultimately responsible for the safety of the two boys."
Yes, because you let their father leave the state and remain a free man with access to them, in spite of all the evidence against him. The "blame someone else" mentality upsets me in individuals, and is just deplorable in public agencies which should be even more accountable, imo. Vomit. This new info is really getting to me.
Same here Pharmchick. These little boys would still be alive if things had been done differently, but it was beyond my control. Makes me furious.
Jacie Estes
04-02-2012, 02:29 PM
msnbc.com Video Player (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21134540/vp/46924024#46924024)
I am heartsick over these new revelations. Mr & Mrs Cox were on TODAY and they stated that Susan 'stayed too long'. :(
wm
Mr. and Mrs. Cox are amazing; they show dignity in the face of horror.
wenwe4
04-02-2012, 02:31 PM
Susan's Sister, Denise made a statement . . .
"They were foolish in keeping it from us," Cox told ABC News. "All the signs were there and the police didn't act on it."
Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/susan-powell-sister-utah-police-responsible-murder-susan-children-article-1.1054414#ixzz1quQqZQrs
Thorkim
04-02-2012, 02:42 PM
Susan's Sister, Denise made a statement . . .
"They were foolish in keeping it from us," Cox told ABC News. "All the signs were there and the police didn't act on it."
Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/susan-powell-sister-utah-police-responsible-murder-susan-children-article-1.1054414#ixzz1quQqZQrs
Horrible. Just keeps getting worse. I don't think I've ever read a more horrifying case. God only knows what he did to poor Susan. Everything was there but her body. I am sick.
DLT88
04-02-2012, 04:00 PM
Horrible. Just keeps getting worse. I don't think I've ever read a more horrifying case. God only knows what he did to poor Susan. Everything was there but her body. I am sick.
Me, too. I can't imagine a police dept being worse than that one was! That whole dept needs an overhaul. This was severe incompetence. Makes me so angry. We were all waiting word on what was found on that carpet. I think most all of us suspected an immediate arrest if it was blood. What the hell is wrong with that police dept???!!! The SECOND it was found that Susan's blood was on the carpet and couch and an obvious attempt was made to clean it up, they should have put Josh's butt in prison!! ALL THIS EVIDENCE and they did nothing! They didn't even attempt to go looking for Susan in mines, etc. until the public decided to go out looking themselves. They all need to turn in their pay for the last 2.5 years for doing nothing.
I have not seen a case handled worse than this either.
SeaEclipse
04-02-2012, 04:06 PM
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/03/30/josh-powell-susan-powell-missing-utah_n_1392756.html
I always knew this was evidence of a clean up after her murder and not koolaid as Josh said
how horrible.
Also from that link:
"One of the children, Charlie, told investigators in an interview shortly after his mom disappeared that she had gone on the camping trip with them but did not come back home and he did not know why, according to the files."
Given the blood in the house, the camping trip and JP's claim that Susan didn't go camping with them, how could this not tell LE exactly what happened... I just don't understand how they could think that they didn't have the evidence to charge him?!
DLT88
04-02-2012, 04:10 PM
I hate to ask this question, but do killers usually use the same methods? Thinking of the blood and gas can.
I'm sorry, I can't believe I typed that. But I was thinking about how they searched that burnt area not all that long ago.
I think he burned Susan, too. Won't we all jump through our roofs if we find out next that the burnt wood chips had Susan's DNA on them. That would make me chew steal to get rid of the anger!
sunflowerchick
04-02-2012, 04:17 PM
Just thinking out loud here... I know that the LE is saying they didn't have enough evidence to charge him. I will NOT defend them for what they didn't do but I wonder if there is an unspoken end to that sentence. "We didn't have enough to charge in a death penalty case". Since Utah is a death penalty state, that could be a factor. I don't know. Still they should have done something to protect those boys!
http://abcnews.go.com/US/susan-powells-blood-found-josh-powells-utah-home/story?id=16042493
article also talks about SP's earlier interview talking about his "relationship" with Susan (I will not snip it... it is disgusting)
Well if Scott emptied her IRA accounts we now know how he was able to live without working. He lived off of Susan's retirement accounts.
This case is so sad, and on so many levels.
Frigga
04-02-2012, 04:46 PM
Well if Scott emptied her IRA accounts we now know how he was able to live without working. He lived off of Susan's retirement accounts.
This case is so sad, and on so many levels.
I think you meant "Josh"... not "Scott"
I think you meant "Josh"... not "Scott"
Opps sorry you are correct. Well in any case Josh and Scott P seem to be cut from the same cloth so perhaps my mind is blending them into one.
The most chilling thing to me in the search warrant is when Jovanna Owings called Josh Powell at 3:03 pm on Dec. 07 and told him Susan had not been at work that day. He said he didn't know that.
THEN, he drives 20 miles out of town and leaves a voicemail on Susan's phone at 3: 34 pm, which is in the vehicle with him, saying he just got back in town and did she want him to pick her up from work.
That certainly makes sense...all be it....sick as it as. Change is a must. I just wish she would have left and sought counsel who would have been adamant in their defense. I'm to the point, I don't think anything besides going completely under the radar would have saved her or the boys...ever. What a sick predatory nature these two Powell's had!! :sigh:
BBM.
I agree. I don't think Susan had many options that would ensure that she and her sons could get out of this alive. And I'm positive that had Susan left and gone underground Josh would have surely killed her parents or other loved ones in retaliation and Susan knew he was capable of doing it. For as sick and twisted Josh and his father were they had equal doses of determination. If Josh wanted Susan dead he was determined to make that a reality. And the same goes to killing his sons out of pure spite.
I don't think Susan and her sons had a chance at all.
x_files
04-02-2012, 07:54 PM
BBM.
I agree. I don't think Susan had many options that would ensure that she and her sons could get out of this alive. And I'm positive that had Susan left and gone underground Josh would have surely killed her parents or other loved ones in retaliation and Susan knew he was capable of doing it. For as sick and twisted Josh and his father were they had equal doses of determination. If Josh wanted Susan dead he was determined to make that a reality. And the same goes to killing his sons out of pure spite.
I don't think Susan and her sons had a chance at all.
Maybe, but we'll never know.
I know some women are scared to death to "kidnap" their own children to save them to be later thrown in jail for that very action leaving the children exposed once again.
Laws need to change.
Allusonz
04-02-2012, 10:47 PM
Just thinking out loud here... I know that the LE is saying they didn't have enough evidence to charge him. I will NOT defend them for what they didn't do but I wonder if there is an unspoken end to that sentence. "We didn't have enough to charge in a death penalty case". Since Utah is a death penalty state, that could be a factor. I don't know. Still they should have done something to protect those boys!
BBM
You bring up a good point here. As well maybe it was we did not have enough to charge JP and SP.
Just my :twocents:
AmandaReckonwith
04-02-2012, 11:02 PM
Susan Powell case archive updated.
The mishandling of the case as revealed by search warrants unsealed...
is here:
http://s296.photobucket.com/albums/mm166/crankycrankerson/Susan%20Cox%20Powell%20%20-UT-/Steve%20Powell-%20Crimes-%20Punishment-%20WebRants-%20Susan/
dovebar
04-02-2012, 11:18 PM
The most chilling thing to me in the search warrant is when Jovanna Owings called Josh Powell at 3:03 pm on Dec. 07 and told him Susan had not been at work that day. He said he didn't know that.
THEN, he drives 20 miles out of town and leaves a voicemail on Susan's phone at 3: 34 pm, which is in the vehicle with him, saying he just got back in town and did she want him to pick her up from work.
This is exactly the kind of lie that should have brought him in for questioning, or allowed them to get a warrant to put a tracker on his car, or something else they didn't do. Jovanna was an adult, not a child, and could have testified to this bizarre lie.
Jacie Estes
04-02-2012, 11:46 PM
Just thinking out loud here... I know that the LE is saying they didn't have enough evidence to charge him. I will NOT defend them for what they didn't do but I wonder if there is an unspoken end to that sentence. "We didn't have enough to charge in a death penalty case". Since Utah is a death penalty state, that could be a factor. I don't know. Still they should have done something to protect those boys!
I think that there was not the legal acumen to see the intricacies of the case and envision the scope of the prosecution necessary; with lesser included offenses, a guilty verdict would have been possible. I am not sure why the prosecutor and LE could not have come up with something, anything to keep him in jail, at least; perhaps just plain incompetence. IMHO
As for the boys, WHY would they sit on information that would have helped keep them away from josh? They had information and evidence that showed them what josh was capable of and still they didn't act on it. IMHO
SuziQ
04-03-2012, 01:09 AM
WTH? I don't buy what this guy is selling. Unless they are talking internet porn. But JC, they haven't even presented a case yet.
WVCPD chief says more than Josh, Steven Powell under investigation
http://www.ksl.com/?nid=148&sid=19841501&title=wvcpd-chief-says-more-than-josh-steven-powell-under-investigation&s_cid=queue-2
Frigga
04-03-2012, 01:21 AM
BBM.
I agree. I don't think Susan had many options that would ensure that she and her sons could get out of this alive. And I'm positive that had Susan left and gone underground Josh would have surely killed her parents or other loved ones in retaliation and Susan knew he was capable of doing it. For as sick and twisted Josh and his father were they had equal doses of determination. If Josh wanted Susan dead he was determined to make that a reality. And the same goes to killing his sons out of pure spite.
I don't think Susan and her sons had a chance at all.\\
Gosh JSR... I never thought of it this way, but I have to say that I think you are exactly right. Poor Susan, may she and her darling babies rest in peace.
Jacie Estes
04-03-2012, 01:30 AM
WTH? I don't buy what this guy is selling. Unless they are talking internet porn. But JC, they haven't even presented a case yet.
WVCPD chief says more than Josh, Steven Powell under investigation
http://www.ksl.com/?nid=148&sid=19841501&title=wvcpd-chief-says-more-than-josh-steven-powell-under-investigation&s_cid=queue-2
I have always believed that there is a porn angle involving josh and, as we now know, steve. It is my belief that when this is all over, there will be a porn ring found, internet or otherwise. A few months after Susan went missing, I was asking on a blog I had and elsewhere if josh had had a pickup truck or had access to a pickup truck. On a mountain road in Tooele, when we were camping there a year and a half before Susan went missing, I saw a man with a young boy, [the man looked exactly like josh in the pictures of him at Kiirsi's house at Thanksgiving and the boy looked like pictures of Charlie at a young age, I don't know where to find the pics this late at night]. Anyway, the man had this boy, just around toddler age standing up riding in the cab of the truck and then walking around a campsite. When we pulled up, he left with the boy. He creeped me out so much that I talked to the ranger who patrols the area and he said he would look for him. I don't know that it was definitely josh but as soon as I saw the pics of him at Kiirsi's it reminded me of that incident.
I vehemently disagree that it is 'not necessary' to find Susan's body; that has been the crux of this case since the beginning.
I took it to mean that they think more members of the Powell family may be involved, not just S and J.
wenwe4
04-03-2012, 03:27 PM
Utah LE feels they did things right . . .
"We represent, really, the victim," Nielsen said. "Our goal is, how do we protect our evidence so we can get a conviction."
http://www.deseretnews.com/article/865553361/WVC-chief-talks-Treyvon-Martin-Josh-Powell-at-community-forum.html
Here it is folks . . . just as we have been saying that Utah LE felt it more important to protect "their case" than protect these two children. Admission of guilt in the purest sense . . . . these two little boys didn't matter to Utah LE. WVPD was only concerned with protecting their case . . . not sharing information with those entities (CPS in Utah & Washington) about how much danger the children were in. Maybe they need to re-visit the terms . . . "to Protect and Serve"!
Well, how well is their case protected now for a conviction? Did they achieve their goal by sacrificing Charlie and Braden? Did they really get what they wanted? While they were off - preparing their "golden parachutes" for retirement . . . . no one in that Dept. cared to keep Susan's boys safe from the very person WVPD was trying to "build a case against".
wenwe4
04-03-2012, 03:50 PM
Here is an audio discussion re: WVPD not bringing charges . . .
Atty. Anne Bremer has been hired by the Cox's to bring a lawsuit against WVPD!
http://mynorthwest.com/11/655994/Attorney-Parents-of-Susan-Cox-Powell-want-change
Listen at the link to Anne on a radio program.
Here is another link to Anne Bremner reprenting the Cox's
http://www.q13fox.com/news/kcpq-susan-cox-powell-family-might-sue-utah-police-over-failure-to-charge-josh-powell-20120402,0,3670427.story
ohiogirl
04-03-2012, 04:18 PM
I think they should sue. By the time this evidence was found, Susan was already gone. But her two boys were not. This definitely should have been used to keep him from leaving the state with them. WV LE and their mayor is just playing CYA. They will not be able to come up with any believable reason that they failed the Powell sons.
jmo
NocturnalLady
04-03-2012, 05:16 PM
"Lohra Miller, who was the prosecutor in Salt Lake County at the time of Susan Powell’s disappearance, told the Tribune that police never presented the case for full consideration. In any event, she said, the facts laid out in the search warrants were insufficient -- in her mind -- to bring a case without risk of reasonable doubt."
http://www.latimes.com/news/nation/nationnow/la-na-nn-josh-powell-20120331,0,1105015.story
Why don't they let a JURY decide what is reasonable doubt??
NocturnalLady
04-03-2012, 05:19 PM
Bumping the link to the warrants.
http://localtvkstu.files.wordpress.com/2012/03/steven-powell-warrants.pdf
--
From the docs:
LE found two fans had been left on, directed toward a sofa that appeared to have been recently cleaned. When asked about this, Josh explained to LE that Susan had instructed him to clean the sofa.
Blood evidence was collected from a tiled floor area adjacent to the sofa. This blood evidence was found to match Susan.
Reading the documented sequence of events from the time Susan disappeared, and the evasive lies and highly incriminating behavior of Josh in these docs -- it's just unbelievable. Not to mention the incomprehensible perversion of daddy dearest. Ugh.
And Susan's posthumously-revealed words, written when she knew she was in danger and wanted to safeguard the truth; wow, how very tragic this is! All of it.
:notgood:
This combined with the 2 foot wide pink stain covered by the sofa that JP's sister saw that morning is more than enough to have arrested him and charged him with murder. Why would the police even pretend to think Susan was just missing with evidence like that in their face?
x_files
04-03-2012, 05:57 PM
This combined with the 2 foot wide pink stain covered by the sofa that JP's sister saw that morning is more than enough to have arrested him and charged him with murder. Why would the police even pretend to think Susan was just missing with evidence like that in their face?
I am starting to think they didn't care or couldn't arrest him. It seems the DA wasn't interested in the evidence that was presented. She said it wasn't sufficient. It was posted earlier on this thread. Let's see if I can dig it. It's i infuriating.
Desdemona
04-03-2012, 06:28 PM
Here is an audio discussion re: WVPD not bringing charges . . .
Atty. Anne Bremer has been hired by the Cox's to bring a lawsuit against WVPD!
http://mynorthwest.com/11/655994/Attorney-Parents-of-Susan-Cox-Powell-want-change
Listen at the link to Anne on a radio program.
Here is another link to Anne Bremner reprenting the Cox's
http://www.q13fox.com/news/kcpq-susan-cox-powell-family-might-sue-utah-police-over-failure-to-charge-josh-powell-20120402,0,3670427.story
Thank you for posting this info.
One thing for certain IMO: This is an amazing family who have endured the worst kind of hell imaginable. According to the article snipped below (same one? updated version?), they are 'considering' a lawsuit at this time.
---
Updated 1 hour, 54 minutes ago.
Attorney: Parents of Susan Cox Powell want change
http://media.bonnint.net/seattle/7/752/75217.jpg
Bremner said if the Cox family pursues action against the department, the claim would likely be for negligent investigation.
She said her clients' main concern is keeping this from happening to another family.
"My clients want change. That can come through legislation that they back. That can come through victim advocacy groups. That can come through litigation," said Bremner. "I'm talking to my clients as to what they want to do to effectuate some change."
http://mynorthwest.com/11/655994/Grieving-grandparents-consider-lawsuit-against-cops
BBM
tiredblondy
04-03-2012, 06:32 PM
I am so glad Pierce County LE is telling it like it is! They would have saved those two boys if they'd have known all this!
Desdemona
04-03-2012, 06:35 PM
KSL has Bremner calling it "premature" but "an option," and Mr. Cox saying they have not decided, remaining supportive of law enforcement for the time being. Excerpts:
Bremmer told KSL Tuesday that Chuck and Judy Cox want change. A lawsuit against West Valley City police for failing to arrest Josh Powell is premature, she says, but one option. Other options could include backing legislation over visitation rights, or advocating for victims' rights.
<snip>
Chuck Cox told KSL Monday he's not ready to file a lawsuit. Bremmer says the Coxes would like to see all the evidence before making a decision and remain supportive of law enforcement.
http://www.ksl.com/?nid=148&sid=19844690&title=report-cox-family-hasnt-ruled-out-lawsuit-against-police&s_cid=queue-3
(MSM has certainly jumped on the lawsuit bandwagon, though... based on a quick Google search.)
tiredblondy
04-03-2012, 06:40 PM
Utah LE feels they did things right . . .
"We represent, really, the victim," Nielsen said. "Our goal is, how do we protect our evidence so we can get a conviction."
http://www.deseretnews.com/article/865553361/WVC-chief-talks-Treyvon-Martin-Josh-Powell-at-community-forum.html
Here it is folks . . . just as we have been saying that Utah LE felt it more important to protect "their case" than protect these two children. Admission of guilt in the purest sense . . . . these two little boys didn't matter to Utah LE. WVPD was only concerned with protecting their case . . . not sharing information with those entities (CPS in Utah & Washington) about how much danger the children were in. Maybe they need to re-visit the terms . . . "to Protect and Serve"!
Well, how well is their case protected now for a conviction? Did they achieve their goal by sacrificing Charlie and Braden? Did they really get what they wanted? While they were off - preparing their "golden parachutes" for retirement . . . . no one in that Dept. cared to keep Susan's boys safe from the very person WVPD was trying to "build a case against".
They could have protected their case and still shared the info with Pierce LE and DCS! You're so right! It was all about their case and I suspect a child porn ring or rings! They could have continued that and still protected the children!
dovebar
04-03-2012, 08:03 PM
Good. WVPD needs to be accountable to someone.
West Valley City seems like a cesspool - prosecutor with a DV past, mayor a public liar.
wenwe4
04-03-2012, 08:55 PM
Utah . . . I hope you have a BIG Checkbook and be ready to write a lot of zero's behind a gazillion dollar figure. I am so very angry and outraged and fed up with the gall of Utah LE. They directly placed these two boys in the path of harm and destruction! Someone needs to have their ____________ in a vice squeezing down HARD! What a travesty of Justice. Their EGO is more important that the safety and welfare of two small children who do not have the capacity to protect themselves. Furious is the best way to describe what I am feeling. I cannot envision what the powers of decision making had in mind when they did not share this info with Washington CPS. These children would have been protected, alive, and safe in their Maternal Grandparents arms with love enveloping their very souls. Instead . . . Utah made sure to give JP the ability to hatchet and burn their little bodies for his own sick and twisted motives. (off to my corner so I don't lose my control) Thanks for letting me vent . . . I really am sick about the level that Utah failed this children!
reposting my post . . . still feelin the same way!
If who they really represent is the victim; I think everyone would agree that the victim would have wanted her children protected above all.
Hold them accountable!
Penelope
04-04-2012, 12:08 AM
They could have protected their case and still shared the info with Pierce LE and DCS! You're so right! It was all about their case and I suspect a child porn ring or rings! They could have continued that and still protected the children!
I am also disgusted by the lack of action by the Utah LE. It is MY OPINION (and I am speculating here) that either there is/was someone higher up in LE or the Attorney General's Office who was involved in a child porn ring connected to Josh and his father or it had something to do with the conservative religious influence in the State of Utah where men have more status/importance than women.
I hope the Cox's sue the butt's off the LE agency involved in this farce -- the two little boys should have been protected as there was, in my opinion, enough evidence to arrest Josh. WHAT INCOMPETENCE!
Desdemona
04-04-2012, 06:01 PM
Susan Powell's Parents: Josh Powell's Dad Knows What Happened To Missing Daughter
Posted: 04/ 4/2012 4:23 pm Updated: 04/ 4/2012 4:38 pm
The parents of missing Utah mom Susan Powell lashed out at her father-in-law in a TV interview, telling Fox, "I'm sure he knows where she is or where his son put her."
Charles and Judy Cox, whose daughter went disappeared in December 2009, appeared on Fox News on Tuesday to discuss new evidence linking Josh Powell to his wife's case. "I'm convinced that his dad knew everything that was going on, if not helping with it," Charles Cox told anchor Martha MacCallum.
(more at link) http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/04/04/susan-powell-josh-powell-charles-judy-cox-steven-utah_n_1403293.html
x_files
04-04-2012, 06:11 PM
I am also disgusted by the lack of action by the Utah LE. It is MY OPINION (and I am speculating here) that either there is/was someone higher up in LE or the Attorney General's Office who was involved in a child porn ring connected to Josh and his father or it had something to do with the conservative religious influence in the State of Utah where men have more status/importance than women.
I hope the Cox's sue the butt's off the LE agency involved in this farce -- the two little boys should have been protected as there was, in my opinion, enough evidence to arrest Josh. WHAT INCOMPETENCE!
I also think this goes much further and deeper than the Powell's or Susan's disappearance.
DLT88
04-04-2012, 07:14 PM
This combined with the 2 foot wide pink stain covered by the sofa that JP's sister saw that morning is more than enough to have arrested him and charged him with murder. Why would the police even pretend to think Susan was just missing with evidence like that in their face?
2 foot?! Wow, she bled a lot then! That b*st*rd. Sickens me that they had ALL this evidence and did absolutely nothing! What do we have police for anyway anymore? Are they just to harrass people? When are they going to go back to solving crimes and putting truly dangerous people behind bars so they can't hurt anyone else? Sorry, a rant just came upon me.
DLT88
04-04-2012, 07:17 PM
Thank you for posting this info.
One thing for certain IMO: This is an amazing family who have endured the worst kind of hell imaginable. According to the article snipped below (same one? updated version?), they are 'considering' a lawsuit at this time.
---
Updated 1 hour, 54 minutes ago.
Attorney: Parents of Susan Cox Powell want change
http://media.bonnint.net/seattle/7/752/75217.jpg
Bremner said if the Cox family pursues action against the department, the claim would likely be for negligent investigation.
She said her clients' main concern is keeping this from happening to another family.
"My clients want change. That can come through legislation that they back. That can come through victim advocacy groups. That can come through litigation," said Bremner. "I'm talking to my clients as to what they want to do to effectuate some change."
http://mynorthwest.com/11/655994/Grieving-grandparents-consider-lawsuit-against-cops
BBM
Sometimes the only way these entities will get on the ball 'next time' is if they get financially punished for screwing up the last time. Sometimes money is all they understand so I hope the Cox's sue and win a very very large sum. It won't bring anyone back, but it will teach 'law enforcement' in that area a much-needed lesson.
Sulamith
04-04-2012, 08:42 PM
This combined with the 2 foot wide pink stain covered by the sofa that JP's sister saw that morning is more than enough to have arrested him and charged him with murder. Why would the police even pretend to think Susan was just missing with evidence like that in their face?
I would love to have WVPD tell the public what their lab found out about the pink stain was and what substance was on the sofa. Was the pink stain old, or new? What was it? IMO, a pink stain is not enough evidence to have JP arrested. It could have been a soft drink or wine. I would like to know about Susan's blood that was found on the tile. Was it fresh, drops, or only found via Luminol?
ohiogirl
04-04-2012, 11:40 PM
It makes me sick to think that this tragedy for these boys couldhave been avoided if the WV LE has just copped to what they knew.
Mustang Sally
04-05-2012, 12:56 AM
From experience I couldn't agree more. Most states ensure shared parenting rights by both parties until such time as it is proven to not be in the child's best interests. For me it meant months of allowing my kiddos to be with their father unsupervised. I knew he was dangerous and volatile but to the court it apparently appeared a he said/she said.
The burden of proof is especially high when abuse isn't physical. Despite a restraining order, past evidence of DV and a lengthy psych history for my ex his rights as a parent trumped everything else. It wasn't until he attempted suicide in front of his then 12 year old daughter that the court ordered family supervised visitation. 9 months after that his visitation rights were suspended indefinitely after he plead guilty to drugging and raping his 14 year old niece.
Laws should not be designed to only retroactively protect children. :(
So saddened by what you had to experience, not to mention the 12 year old daughter and 14 year old niece.
I am a Guardian Ad Litem in the state of Florida. Were any of the children ever serviced by a Guardian Ad Litem? If not, they should have been. WE are advocates of the child and voice their personal wishes to the Judge! This man sounds like a complete basket case. I can not begin to understand how he was given unsupervised visitation! But...some of these cases that I have had in 6 years have left me rattled to my core. I really feel so sorry for the Caseworker who dropped off the boys. She has to be in such mental pain. I hope they are giving her some mental counseling. The guilt alone would be horrible if I ever lost a client..not to mention 2 innocent your boys.
I just got a new case yesterday and the 6 and 10 year old boys are living with the paternal grandmother. She has had them for 4 years. I met her today and she is quite old. She had been on a field trip with one of them this morning...Their Mother is in prison for drugs and has had 5 children. This grandmother's son is a Registered Sex Offender and he has the case reopened because he wants custody. True, he likes young girls...but still I already feel that he might not be a fit parent. He just got out of prison and has been seen in the company of a 15 year old girl. The part that bothers me is the fact that the father may have friends who are Sexual Offenders of young Boys!!! I meet the boys tomorrow and have to send a report before a hearing on 4/9/12...
Makes me wish I had taken the other case with a 14 month old little girl!!
Dear God...Please watch after Susan and her precious boys and give the Cox's and other Family members some closure
Mustang Sally
04-05-2012, 01:07 AM
KSL has Bremner calling it "premature" but "an option," and Mr. Cox saying they have not decided, remaining supportive of law enforcement for the time being. Excerpts:
(MSM has certainly jumped on the lawsuit bandwagon, though... based on a quick Google search.)
The picture that was with that article is one I have never seen of Charlie and Braden...It breaks my heart to see such happy smiles on those boys faces and then to know that they are now Angels!
The anger that I feel against Josh Powell is still something that I have to come to grips with.
Praying that the law that Washington wants to pass in their names may in fact, save other's lives. I guess we can only hope!
Just My Humble Opinion!
Just K
04-05-2012, 09:32 AM
Sadly, I am not sure that this proposed law is constitutional. Being accused/suspected is "legally" much different than being prosecuted and convicted. And, in this case, did WV LE ever "officially" label him a suspect? If so, then couldn't they have prevented him from leaving the state of UT and if so why didn't they?
wenwe4
04-05-2012, 10:36 AM
Jpsh told a friend ...
"The TV report did not name the friend but ABC News has identified him as Scott Hardman.
“He was basically telling me about how the best way to dispose of a body would be down a mineshaft like a vertical one,” Hardman . . ."
http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/headlines/2012/04/josh-powell-friend-says-he-bragged-of-knowing-how-to-dump-a-body/
Video @ link and audio of interview w/Hardman
http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/video/josh-powells-scary-conversation-friend-susan-powells-disapearance-16077181
LietKynes
04-05-2012, 12:43 PM
http://usnews.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/04/05/11026453-susan-powells-father-in-law-skipped-work-at-time-of-disappearance?lite
"Adding yet another wrinkle to the story, the Salt Lake Tribune learned Tuesday that Josh Powell’s father, Steven Powell, called in sick to work for two days a day after his daughter-in-law Susan Powell disappeared in Dec. 2009"
While I realise this isn't irrefutable proof; it looks like SP did have something to do with this. I wish LE would turn up the heat on SP !!
Sorry to have to post what I'm thinking :
It seems more than ever that Susans' remains are scattered in so many pieces that her parents will never have any part of her back.
Hard to imagine that there are such sick freaks as JP and SP out there.
Pookie's Mom
04-05-2012, 04:35 PM
You know, I thought I was past getting emotional over this case, but even now, it still makes me cry. :( so senselss, all of it. I too, hope the Cox's sue with a vengence just to stick it to the ones who screwed up! It won't bring anyone back, but maybe it'll bring change. Prayers for Susan's family, they have been through so much.
I hope and pray that the Coxes can come to some sort of closure about their daughters death. It appears that they will never recover her body. Josh and his father likely made sure they never would. I hope they can come to find some peace about that tragedy.
SilkySifaka
04-05-2012, 05:54 PM
I agree.
I also agree with another poster who mentioned the boys deaths are the responsibility of WVPD and SA's office, who chose to keep information secret to protect the integrity of the case over the safety of two young innocent boys.
WVLE and SA's office screwed up and screwed up big time. We've seen cases with 1st degree no body murder charges with far less evidence than what appears WVPD and the SA's office had in this case.
I still need to catch up on the thread, but WVLE and the SA's office needs to be held responsible for their complete failure in this case. I can't think of any other case where there has been such blatent incompetency.
I am one who holds LE to a very high standard, both cops and prosecutors because I believe that nothing should allow the conviction of an innocent man..I understand many a not guilty verdict when others don't.
Even me..whom I admit is stringent on reasonable doubt is dumbfounded at this incompetency.
This case cried out for a prosecution, not just from what was revealed today but the amount of info we had..this added to it would have made it a slam dunk or as near as can be without a video tape.
They had physical evidence, they had tons of circumstantial evidence, so they didn't have a body..it wasn't needed in this case!
SilkySifaka
04-05-2012, 06:35 PM
WVPD had enough evidence to involve CPS in Utah (IMO) and have the children placed into foster care/relative care at that time. I highly doubt that Utah LE even shared the info (with Utah CPS) about what they found on Josh's computers and in his home at the time of Susan's disappearance. If there was no cooperation between those two agencies, there would be NO cooperation with another State CPS agency from the get go. From the information I have garnered . . . Utah CPS was never involved with these boys at any time following Susan's disappearance which gave more credence to Josh not being involved with CPS in Washington. Washington CPS only became involved because of Grandpa Steve's porn and voyuerism etc. Washington's CPS case was only based upon the threat that Grandpa Steve and his home posed to the boys. Washington was set up to fail these children by Utah LE - from the beginning. I would like to tie up the Utah case failures with a great big Bow and present it to the world! A big bow for their EGO's!
I can't remember the circumstances that made Washington LE search the Powell house...was it mostly on their own initiative? I have a feeling that even if it was officially at the request of Utah the whole thing started from the WA office, the idea at least. Because imo Utah didn't give a hoot about the case coming to trial, they only cared about the secrecy fo their case.
wenwe4
04-06-2012, 02:26 PM
I can't remember the circumstances that made Washington LE search the Powell house...was it mostly on their own initiative? I have a feeling that even if it was officially at the request of Utah the whole thing started from the WA office, the idea at least. Because imo Utah didn't give a hoot about the case coming to trial, they only cared about the secrecy fo their case.
IIRC Josh and SP were bragging that they would publish Susan's diaries which would "outline the abuse" that she "supposedly suffered" during her years growing up at home with her parents. WVPD worked in conjunction with Washington LE to get the search warrants for SP's home looking for clues in Susan's disappearace. Once Washington got involved and found Josh's Brother (Schizophrenic?) answering the door naked, the picture of a woman's torso (stabbed?) and the multitude of porn and evidence of voyeurism that SP had in his possession . . . Washington CPS picked up the children. Josh was then held accountable to "ameloriate the issues that brought the children into foster care" - essentially meaning no contact with Grandpa, no access to Grandpa Steve's house, no access to porn or inappropriate behaviors from other family members, etc. CPS is mandated to use the least restrictive alternatives to ensure child safety. Since the whole CPS case in Washington was based upon the threat that SP presented to the children - there was not a significant case against Josh. If Josh moved to another home, kept Grandpa away, and proved he could provide basic needs for the boys - Washington State was hard pressed to keep the children away from Josh - as those issues were no longer a present danger to the kids. The "door knob disclosure" (ie: very last minute mention) of porn on JOsh's computers in Utah was only brought up just prior to the last hearing in Washington - where the train was well down the track toward reunification of Josh with his boys. Making it even harder was the fact the info from Utah LE was nearly 2 years old and Josh could argue it was no longer a presenting danger to his kids.
Desdemona
04-06-2012, 06:18 PM
Steve Powell Planned Utah Camping Trip Around Time Of Susan Powell's Disappearance, Co-Worker Says
Posted: 04/ 6/2012 9:11 am Updated: 04/ 6/2012 6:13 pm
OLYMPIA, Wash. -- A co-worker of Steve Powell says the father-in-law of Susan Powell planned to travel to Utah for a camping trip shortly before she disappeared in 2009, an attorney said Thursday.
Lawyer Anne Bremner said she has spoken to the co-worker in recent days and reviewed the statement the colleague sent to authorities. In the woman's account, she says Steve Powell talked about leaving around Thanksgiving 2009 for a camping trip in Utah with his son, Josh Powell.
More at link:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/04/06/steve-powell-talked-about-utah-camping-trip_n_1407948.html
Jacie Estes
04-06-2012, 06:59 PM
Steve Powell Planned Utah Camping Trip Around Time Of Susan Powell's Disappearance, Co-Worker Says
Posted: 04/ 6/2012 9:11 am Updated: 04/ 6/2012 6:13 pm
OLYMPIA, Wash. -- A co-worker of Steve Powell says the father-in-law of Susan Powell planned to travel to Utah for a camping trip shortly before she disappeared in 2009, an attorney said Thursday.
Lawyer Anne Bremner said she has spoken to the co-worker in recent days and reviewed the statement the colleague sent to authorities. In the woman's account, she says Steve Powell talked about leaving around Thanksgiving 2009 for a camping trip in Utah with his son, Josh Powell.
More at link:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/04/06/steve-powell-talked-about-utah-camping-trip_n_1407948.html
BBM
Shows planning on the part of j&s powell; exactly what were they planning? I hope there is enough circumstantial evidence to get sp for at least collaborating.
Dr. Know?
04-06-2012, 10:43 PM
IIRC Josh and SP were bragging that they would publish Susan's diaries which would "outline the abuse" that she "supposedly suffered" during her years growing up at home with her parents. WVPD worked in conjunction with Washington LE to get the search warrants for SP's home looking for clues in Susan's disappearace. Once Washington got involved and found Josh's Brother (Schizophrenic?) answering the door naked, the picture of a woman's torso (stabbed?) and the multitude of porn and evidence of voyeurism that SP had in his possession . . . Washington CPS picked up the children. Josh was then held accountable to "ameloriate the issues that brought the children into foster care" - essentially meaning no contact with Grandpa, no access to Grandpa Steve's house, no access to porn or inappropriate behaviors from other family members, etc. CPS is mandated to use the least restrictive alternatives to ensure child safety. Since the whole CPS case in Washington was based upon the threat that SP presented to the children - there was not a significant case against Josh. If Josh moved to another home, kept Grandpa away, and proved he could provide basic needs for the boys - Washington State was hard pressed to keep the children away from Josh - as those issues were no longer a present danger to the kids. The "door knob disclosure" (ie: very last minute mention) of porn on JOsh's computers in Utah was only brought up just prior to the last hearing in Washington - where the train was well down the track toward reunification of Josh with his boys. Making it even harder was the fact the info from Utah LE was nearly 2 years old and Josh could argue it was no longer a presenting danger to his kids.
Wasn't the porn on Josh's computer brought up in Nov. 2011, by WVC PD to WA? The WVC PD didn't send that info until January? I sensed the WA PD were frustrated it took so long to present the evidence.
Jacie Estes
04-07-2012, 12:12 PM
Wasn't the porn on Josh's computer brought up in Nov. 2011, by WVC PD to WA? The WVC PD didn't send that info until January? I sensed the WA PD were frustrated it took so long to present the evidence.
Not to excuse the actions of WVCPD, but how much of the delays was budgetary? How much was the lack of resources of WVCPD?
Jacie Estes
04-09-2012, 06:39 PM
Obstruction of Justice charges were an option but were not used. :(
A spokeswoman for the U.S. Attorney’s Office in Utah on Thursday declined to say what role federal authorities are playing in the Powell case. Previously, federal agents helped interview witnesses in the case and placed a GPS tracking device on Josh Powell’s van in early 2010.
Utah law says an obstruction of justice charge carries a penalty of 1 to 15 years in prison if the crime under investigation is a capital or first-degree felony. If the underlying crime would be a lesser felony, then obstruction of justice carries a penalty of up to five years in prison.
http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/home3/53867471-200/powell-josh-obstruction-case.html.csp
nosylla
04-11-2012, 01:27 AM
Good. WVPD needs to be accountable to someone.
West Valley City seems like a cesspool - prosecutor with a DV past, mayor a public liar.
Interesting about the DV past of the prosecutor. Was that Gill? Or the prior prosecutor? Can you find a link to post? That would be great to see.
Jacie Estes
04-11-2012, 09:02 AM
Interesting about the DV past of the prosecutor. Was that Gill? Or the prior prosecutor? Can you find a link to post? That would be great to see.
Keith Stoney, Utah Ex cop and Judge, Domestic Violence - YouTube
http://www.cityweekly.net/utah/blog-...th-stoney.html
JUDGE KEITH STONEY
Judge Stoney was appointed to the West Valley City Justice Court July 2001. He currently serves as presiding judge. Judge Stoney has a Bachelor of Arts degree in Interpersonal Communication from Brigham Young University and a Juris Doctorate from the J. Reuben Clark School of Law. Prior to taking the bench, he was an Administrative Law Judge. Judge Stoney was the Chief Prosecutor for West Valley City for 17 years and managed a private law practice. He has taught at Brigham Young University and at the J. Reuben Clark School of Law as an adjunct professor. He has been an instructor for Utah Peace Officer Standards and Training, Salt Lake Community College, Utah Department of Corrections, and Western Community Policing Center. In 1983, under his direction, West Valley City established the first coordinated domestic violence program in Utah. Judge Stoney has served as the chairman of the Justice Court Curriculum Subcommittee and currently is a Justice Court judge mentor and serves as a Justice Court representative on the Utah Judicial Council. 2/10
http://www.utcourts.gov/judgesbios/s...st=4&ct_type=U
Keith L. Stoney is a Utah Third Judicial District judge for Salt Lake County and Utah County, Utah for the West Valley Justice Court and the Saratoga Springs.
http://judgepedia.org/index.php/Keith_L._Stoney
Saratoga Springs and West Valley Justice Court Judge Keith Stoney October 27, 2011
http://webster.utahbar.org/news/2011...to_utah_j.html
Dr. Know?
04-11-2012, 01:10 PM
Tribune asks WVC to release Susan Powell documents
West Valley City • Citing public interest in the matter, Salt Lake Tribune reporters on Tuesday night asked the City Council to release records concerning the investigation into Josh Powell and the disappearance of his wife, Susan Powell.
Reporter Aaron Falk noted that the investigation into Susan Powell’s disappearance began two years and four months ago and said people are entitled to a general idea of how taxpayer money was spent. He also said that some records should no longer be protected from disclosure because Josh Powell, the lone person of interest in his wife’s disappearance, is dead.
more
http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/mobile/53879373-68/powell-records-susan-release.html.csp#.T4UNLEK4zgI.twitter
LCoastMom
04-14-2012, 01:58 PM
Not to excuse the actions of WVCPD, but how much of the delays was budgetary? How much was the lack of resources of WVCPD?
I am not interested in excuses either but I believe there's something missing. No way do I believe WVCPD just didn't care enough.
Whatever it is the truth will come out, it's too late to play CYA so let's just unveil the truth and let the chips fall where they may...
Taking responsibility, what a concept.
vBulletin® v3.8.1, Copyright ©2000-2013, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
0