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imamaze
04-03-2012, 05:26 PM
Please continue here.

Remember the rules: http://www.websleuths.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=159

Remember the "ignore" feature on your profile page.

Please stick with the facts as reported by LE or MSM, and link them. Link them often if necessary.

Please clearly state when it is your opinion. If you are making an inference please clearly outline and link the facts and evidence that have led you to form that inference. Wild speculation about any case player has no place here.

Please PM a mod with any questions or concerns and alert any TOS violations or offensive posts.

And finally, PLEASE address one another respectfully.

We will no longer allow discussion of Al Sharpton, Jesse Jackson, or the Black Panther protest(s). There are way too many <modsnips> and timeouts to continue this discussion. We will allow MSM links to such protests, but no discussion.

We need to stick to the facts of this case and that's our discussion here. Please, we ask that you do what you do best - SLEUTH THE CASE.

Blogs and Twitter links and discussion of them are allowed only if it's an approved WS link or a link from main stream media (MSM).


Thread #1 (http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=165269&highlight=Trayvon)
Thread #2 (http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=166351&highlight=Trayvon+martin)
Thread #3 (http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=166513&highlight=Trayvon+martin)
Thread #4 (http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=166660&highlight=Trayvon+martin)
Thread #5
Thread #6 (http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=166872&highlight=Trayvon+Martin)
Thread #7 (http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=167001&highlight=Trayvon+Martin)
Thread #8 (http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=167151&highlight=y%2Fo+teen)
Thread #9
Thread #10
Thread #11
Thread #12
Thread #13
Thread #14
Thread #15

Clairfication on WS stance regarding the "victim friendly" issue.

I had a discussion with the owners about how we were to deal with this. This is what I was advised:

At this point in the investigation we don't KNOW exactly who ALL the victims are now. We KNOW that Trayvon is a victim, because he is dead. However, news breaks and new leaks come forth everyday and it is still unclear whether Zimmerman was a victim of any violence. Until more verifiable FACTS are available, WS has chosen to err on the side of treating both the confirmed (Trayvon) AND potential (Zimmerman) victim, both as victims.

Like I said, that may change after we have more verifiable information

Hope that helps clear this up.

Please bump as needed.



WS does not permit links that request or suggest sending donations without the clear permission of the owners . This is to protect our members and for no other reason.
__________________

iluvmua
04-03-2012, 05:32 PM
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/sns-rt-us-usa-florida-shooting-trayvonbre8320uk-20120403,0,2751266.story?page=1

Tracy Martin had been looking for his son Trayvon since the night before.

An attorney herself, she knew whom to call: Benjamin Crump, the state's best-known civil rights attorney, based in Tallahassee. Crump and law partner Daryl Parks had previously gained renown representing the family of a black teenager who died in a boot-camp-style youth detention center in 2006, winning the boy's family $7.2 million in damages from the state of Florida and Bay County.

Now Crump and Jackson needed a media strategy. On March 5, Jackson brought in Ryan Julison, a publicist who had worked with her on a number of high-profile cases. After speaking with Tracy Martin, Julison said he also took the job for free and went to work pitching the story to national media.

Crump knew from his experience on the boot-camp case that publicity could force officials to act, but it would require persuading two people who had never stood before a television camera to withstand the spotlight.

"I got on the phone with Tracy Martin and I told him, ‘It's not going to be any fun, but this is the only way to find justice,'" Julison said. "You are going to have to bare your soul and express your emotions and your inner grief." Martin and Fulton agreed. There was only one problem. At first, the media weren't interested. Julison pitched the story to a long list of media contacts.

Eventually, on March 7, Reuters published a story titled "Family of Florida Boy Killed by Neighborhood Watch Seeks Arrest." The next day, CBS News aired a segment on "This Morning," and by 10 a.m. a crowd of reporters gathered at Natalie Jackson's law office for a news conference with Ben Crump and Tracy Martin. A media firestorm had begun.

The article is three pages long.

LolaMoon08
04-03-2012, 05:32 PM
I'm sure if you would ask Trayvon's parents if they would like their son back or a million dollars... they would pick their son.

ETA: <modsnip> If they just wanted money, they would quietly sue the HOA and Zimmerman. Instead they are reaching out to any and everyone to help them get Justice for their son.

:moo:

songline
04-03-2012, 05:36 PM
I'm sure if you would ask Trayvon's parents if they would like their son back or a million dollars... they would pick their son.

ETA: <modsnip> If they just wanted money, they would quietly sue the HOA and Zimmerman. Instead they are reaching out to any and everyone to help them get Justice for their son.

:moo:
I agree, but now it looks like they will get a few million by the time they are done with this. :(

LambChop
04-03-2012, 05:38 PM
I'm sure if you would ask Trayvon's parents if they would like their son back or a million dollars... they would pick their son.

ETA: <modsnip> If they just wanted money, they would quietly sue the HOA and Zimmerman. Instead they are reaching out to any and everyone to help them get Justice for their son.

:moo:

If they wanted money they would have hired Jose. jmo

LolaMoon08
04-03-2012, 05:40 PM
I agree, but now it looks like they will get a few million by the time they are done with it all.

Yes, I am sure they will do good things with that money too. Their children are going to need counseling. They are going to need counseling. I have a feeling we will hear about Trayvon's parents for years to come doing good things for their community. They seem like lovely people who have had to endure what no parent ever should have to endure. I do not believe they are going to allow Trayvon's death to be in vain.

MOO

LambChop
04-03-2012, 05:41 PM
I agree, but now it looks like they will get a few million by the time they are done with this. :(

Well, people do buy insurance for that very reason. If they want to file a wrongful death suit, I say they are entitled. Or do I have that all wrong because TM was on suspension from school that night???? jmo

songline
04-03-2012, 05:42 PM
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/sns-rt-us-usa-florida-shooting-trayvonbre8320uk-20120403,0,2751266.story?page=1

Tracy Martin had been looking for his son Trayvon since the night before.An attorney herself, she knew whom to call: Benjamin Crump, the state's best-known civil rights attorney, based in Tallahassee. Crump and law partner Daryl Parks had previously gained renown representing the family of a black teenager who died in a boot-camp-style youth detention center in 2006, winning the boy's family $7.2 million in damages from the state of Florida and Bay County.

Now Crump and Jackson needed a media strategy. On March 5, Jackson brought in Ryan Julison, a publicist who had worked with her on a number of high-profile cases. After speaking with Tracy Martin, Julison said he also took the job for free and went to work pitching the story to national media.

Crump knew from his experience on the boot-camp case that publicity could force officials to act, but it would require persuading two people who had never stood before a television camera to withstand the spotlight.

"I got on the phone with Tracy Martin and I told him, ‘It's not going to be any fun, but this is the only way to find justice,'" Julison said. "You are going to have to bare your soul and express your emotions and your inner grief." Martin and Fulton agreed. There was only one problem. At first, the media weren't interested. Julison pitched the story to a long list of media contacts.

Eventually, on March 7, Reuters published a story titled "Family of Florida Boy Killed by Neighborhood Watch Seeks Arrest." The next day, CBS News aired a segment on "This Morning," and by 10 a.m. a crowd of reporters gathered at Natalie Jackson's law office for a news conference with Ben Crump and Tracy Martin. A media firestorm had begun.

The article is three pages long.

BBM
The father said that he thought he went with to the movies with a cousin,
so he did not worry why he was not home, and he fell asleep.
NO he did not look for him that night.

LolaMoon08
04-03-2012, 05:42 PM
Then why do they have a foundation?

Why does Mark Klass have a foundation? Why does Tim Miller have a foundation? Why does anyone who has ever lost a child have a foundation? To take the death of their children and do something in their memory.

MOO

tehcloser
04-03-2012, 05:44 PM
hmmmm...........interesting what this story has brought out in people.

LambChop
04-03-2012, 05:44 PM
Then why do they have a foundation?

Oh, I know this one. Attorneys, attorneys....they get their money regardless. Takes money to get people to listen to you because it's not like TM was missing for 31 days and the media was going to pay attention. jmo

songline
04-03-2012, 05:44 PM
Well, people do buy insurance for that very reason. If they want to file a wrongful death suit, I say they are entitled. Or do I have that all wrong because TM was on suspension from school that night???? jmo


I do not have a clue about insurance for wrongful death.
I just know that given the situation at hand, they will be making a lot of money. I do not blame them, but they will.

Angels_Not_Forgotten
04-03-2012, 05:45 PM
Then why do they have a foundation? it reeks of G &C's foundation.

The same reason a lot of VICTIMS have foundations. I'm confused on how this matters for any other purpose than to victim bash. Unless your suggesting that TMs mom or dad pulled the trugger that night?

Sent from my ADR6300 using Tapatalk

uvamerica
04-03-2012, 05:45 PM
Why would TM use the word "Homie" with George ? As far as I know the word homie is term of endearment , such as "hi homie what's up" ?
my son's friend used homie when he introduced one of his friends to my son, he said "this is so n so he's one of my homie's". (good friends)

I just don't see Trayvon using it with a complete stranger who's stalking him. :moo:

Etilema
04-03-2012, 05:48 PM
I'm sure if you would ask Trayvon's parents if they would like their son back or a million dollars... they would pick their son.

ETA: <modsnip> If they just wanted money, they would quietly sue the HOA and Zimmerman. Instead they are reaching out to any and everyone to help them get Justice for their son.

:moo:

Plus there's no evidence to support that assertion.

(Aren't Trayvon's parents considered victims at this point?)

tehcloser
04-03-2012, 05:48 PM
Why would TM use the word "Homie" with George ? As far as I know the word homie is term of endearment , such as "hi homie what's up" ?
my son's friend used homie when he introduced one of his friends to my son, he said "this is so n so he's one of my homie's". (good friends)

I just don't see Trayvon using it with a complete stranger who's stalking him. :moo:


George didn't know what homie meant...........he thought it was a slam.

TonyGatto
04-03-2012, 05:50 PM
Oh, I know this one. Attorneys, attorneys....they get their money regardless. Takes money to get people to listen to you because it's not like TM was missing for 31 days and the media was going to pay attention. jmo

I applaud the Martins, Mr. Crump and all of Trayvon's supporters for putting together their media plan. Had they not done that, this case would go on the dump-heap of history which so many cases involving people of color do. People cry about the demonstrators and agitators, if it was not for them, this case would be treated exactly the way SPD treated it in the first hours. A dead Black kid, who cares? It's sad, but that's the only way to get justice.

annalia
04-03-2012, 05:51 PM
Why does Mark Klass have a foundation? Why does Tim Miller have a foundation? Why does anyone who has ever lost a child have a foundation? To take the death of their children and do something in their memory.

MOO

Laci Peterson Foundation
The Natalee Holloway Foundation
Carole Sund Foundation
The Jennifer Kesse Trust

Etilema
04-03-2012, 05:51 PM
George didn't know what homie meant...........he thought it was a slam.

Well, I think it can be used negatively. Similarly to "buddy".

LolaMoon08
04-03-2012, 05:56 PM
"Homie" is a much more appropriate "term of endearment" then what Zimmerman's friend considers a "term of endearment."

tlcya
04-03-2012, 05:57 PM
Why would TM use the word "Homie" with George ? As far as I know the word homie is term of endearment , such as "hi homie what's up" ?
my son's friend used homie when he introduced one of his friends to my son, he said "this is so n so he's one of my homie's". (good friends)

I just don't see Trayvon using it with a complete stranger who's stalking him. :moo:

I have heard it reported that TM used the term "homes" to GZ. I make no statement as to the veracity of that claim but simply verify that I have seen it reported as "homes" not "homie"

I have heard this term used (although not recently) among hispanic culture in addition to the "homie" people tend to associate with rap or young AA Culture (also have not heard that term used in a while FWIW).

As a Mexican-American slang word created in Southern California with the early 20th century cholo style generation, the term can be traced back to fact-based films such as Boulevard Nights (dramatizing their culture from 1975–1978), Blood In Blood Out/Bound By Honor (1972-1984 culture), and American Me (1940-50s culture)

Homie - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

LambChop
04-03-2012, 05:57 PM
I do not have a clue about insurance for wrongful death.
I just know that given the situation at hand, they will be making a lot of money. I do not blame them, but they will.

Life insurance is payment for a death. Wrongful death suits are for the victim's family. Insurance policies to cover wrongful death claims would be covered under some type of liability insurance. jmo

TonyGatto
04-03-2012, 05:57 PM
"Homie" is a much more appropriate "term of endearment" then what Zimmerman's friend considers a "term of endearment."

GZ referred to Trayvon as an a**hole in the first seconds he every laid eyes on him.

Gin
04-03-2012, 05:58 PM
Usually foundations are set up to do good things. Not everyone is G&C. jmo


Saying that "not everyone is G&C" is stepping on the soft pedal. Thankfully.

JMO


I applaud the Martins, Mr. Crump and all of Trayvon's supporters for putting together their media plan. Had they not done that, this case would go on the dump-heap of history which so many cases involving people of color do. People cry about the demonstrators and agitators, if it was not for them, this case would be treated exactly the way SPD treated it in the first hours. A dead Black kid, who cares? It's sad, but that's the only way to get justice.


Laci Peterson Foundation
The Natalee Holloway Foundation
Carole Sund Foundation
The Jennifer Kesse Trust

I hope everyday for justice for Trayvon and his family. I totally support the efforts being put forth to remember and honor his life.

LolaMoon08
04-03-2012, 06:01 PM
I applaud the Martins, Mr. Crump and all of Trayvon's supporters for putting together their media plan. Had they not done that, this case would go on the dump-heap of history which so many cases involving people of color do. People cry about the demonstrators and agitators, if it was not for them, this case would be treated exactly the way SPD treated it in the first hours. A dead Black kid, who cares? It's sad, but that's the only way to get justice.

I applaud my fellow American citizens, of all races, who are standing side by side with the Martin Family. I feel a great sense of pride when I see all the rally's and marches and so many people have shown up to support them.

I do think race had a role in this case. I think if Trayvon had been white, there would have been an arrest. If Trayvon would have been the son of a Police Officer, George Zimmerman would have never walked out of that police station that night. It's sad, but true... and a lot of my fellow American's see it too and it is not something that should be ignored.

MOO

tlcya
04-03-2012, 06:01 PM
If the term Homes or Homie was used by TM (which I tend to doubt) I think it was the term "homes" and if so it was said in a derogatory fashion, as I have seen non hispanics refer sarcastically to hispanics in that manner as a sort of baiting technique. Sounds friendly but is really insulting because of the very evident fact that the speaker is not your buddy.

Again

I have not seen it confirmed those words were spoken by TM and I tend not to believe them as IME young people his age do not use that term in either way.

rotterdam
04-03-2012, 06:08 PM
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/sns-rt-us-usa-florida-shooting-trayvonbre8320uk-20120403,0,2751266.story?page=1

Tracy Martin had been looking for his son Trayvon since the night before.

An attorney herself, she knew whom to call: Benjamin Crump, the state's best-known civil rights attorney, based in Tallahassee. Crump and law partner Daryl Parks had previously gained renown representing the family of a black teenager who died in a boot-camp-style youth detention center in 2006, winning the boy's family $7.2 million in damages from the state of Florida and Bay County.

Now Crump and Jackson needed a media strategy. On March 5, Jackson brought in Ryan Julison, a publicist who had worked with her on a number of high-profile cases. After speaking with Tracy Martin, Julison said he also took the job for free and went to work pitching the story to national media.

Crump knew from his experience on the boot-camp case that publicity could force officials to act, but it would require persuading two people who had never stood before a television camera to withstand the spotlight.

"I got on the phone with Tracy Martin and I told him, ‘It's not going to be any fun, but this is the only way to find justice,'" Julison said. "You are going to have to bare your soul and express your emotions and your inner grief." Martin and Fulton agreed. There was only one problem. At first, the media weren't interested. Julison pitched the story to a long list of media contacts.

Eventually, on March 7, Reuters published a story titled "Family of Florida Boy Killed by Neighborhood Watch Seeks Arrest." The next day, CBS News aired a segment on "This Morning," and by 10 a.m. a crowd of reporters gathered at Natalie Jackson's law office for a news conference with Ben Crump and Tracy Martin. A media firestorm had begun.

The article is three pages long.

I find this part very interesting. I presume that the re enactment was post that 8.00 am time on the same day. Wonder why Mr Martin was not invited but GZ's daddy was. Am sure Mr Martin would have been very interested instead of that loaded verbal account from the detective..

"Instead of one squad car with his son in the backseat, three vehicles pulled up: a police cruiser, an unmarked sedan and another official-looking car. Martin would discover the third car belonged to a chaplain.

It was not yet 8 in the morning, barely 12 hours since the shooting that took place about 100 yards away, and Martin was still unaware of the fate of his son."

LambChop
04-03-2012, 06:09 PM
I hope everyday for justice for Trayvon and his family. I totally support the efforts being put forth to remember and honor his life.

Plus these foundations are set up because people do want to help them and that money starts to come in and the Martin's don't want this money rolling through their checkbooks, nor did Tim Miller, so the money goes into an account that is held by a bank or law firm. It's held there until it is determined how the money will be distributed for expenses, charties, etc. I think the last thing on their minds right now is money. I think they want the truth and apparently the truth is very expensive in Sanford these days. jmo

Dr.Fessel
04-03-2012, 06:10 PM
Sadly it takes money to get justice when police lie on their reports.

LambChop
04-03-2012, 06:12 PM
I find this part very interesting. I presume that the re enactment was post that 8.00 am time on the same day. Wonder why Mr Martin was not invited but GZ's daddy was. Am sure Mr Martin would have been very interested instead of that loaded verbal account from the detective..

"Instead of one squad car with his son in the backseat, three vehicles pulled up: a police cruiser, an unmarked sedan and another official-looking car. Martin would discover the third car belonged to a chaplain.

It was not yet 8 in the morning, barely 12 hours since the shooting that took place about 100 yards away, and Martin was still unaware of the fate of his son."

It's possible he called LE first to ask about TM because he heard about there being trouble out in the back the night before. jmo

francie
04-03-2012, 06:12 PM
Trayvon Martin's Girlfriend Interviewed By Prosecutors

"Trayvon's girlfriend was interviewed by the two district attorneys that Special Prosecutor Angela Corey appointed to the case," a source tells RadarOnline.com. "She was interviewed last week and her mother was present throughout. She was very forthcoming and had pertinent information to the investigation because she was the last person that talked to Trayvon before George Zimmerman shot and killed him. It was extremely emotional for her and her mother wanted to make sure it wasn't too much for her. She would be a very compelling witness for the state of Florida if criminal charges are filed against George Zimmmerman."

The Florida State Attorney's Office has issued a subpoena for Trayvon's girlfriend to appear in front of the grand jury when it's impaneled on April 10.

More at link…

http://www.radaronline.com/exclusives/2012/04/trayvon-martin-girlfriend-interviewed-prosecutors

uvamerica
04-03-2012, 06:12 PM
George didn't know what homie meant...........he thought it was a slam.

That is why I believe GZ came up with that word all on his own, thinking it was a slam, he thought it would bolster his story.
Same thing with "you got me" I saw an old western the other day where that phrase was used. I have to say it made me giggle when I heard it :giggle:
JMO

octobermoon
04-03-2012, 06:13 PM
If the term Homes or Homie was used by TM (which I tend to doubt) I think it was the term "homes" and if so it was said in a derogatory fashion, as I have seen non hispanics refer sarcastically to hispanics in that manner as a sort of baiting technique. Sounds friendly but is really insulting because of the very evident fact that the speaker is not your buddy.

Again

I have not seen it confirmed those words were spoken by TM and I tend not to believe them as IME young people his age do not use that term in either way.

me thinks somebody with a gun watched too many movies.

JMO MOO IMO

LolaMoon08
04-03-2012, 06:13 PM
Trayvon Martin's Girlfriend Interviewed By Prosecutors

"Trayvon's girlfriend was interviewed by the two district attorneys that Special Prosecutor Angela Corey appointed to the case," a source tells RadarOnline.com. "She was interviewed last week and her mother was present throughout. She was very forthcoming and had pertinent information to the investigation because she was the last person that talked to Trayvon before George Zimmerman shot and killed him. It was extremely emotional for her and her mother wanted to make sure it wasn't too much for her. She would be a very compelling witness for the state of Florida if criminal charges are filed against George Zimmmerman."

The Florida State Attorney's Office has issued a subpoena for Trayvon's girlfriend to appear in front of the grand jury when it's impaneled on April 10.

More at link…

http://www.radaronline.com/exclusives/2012/04/trayvon-martin-girlfriend-interviewed-prosecutors

Poor kid. I wish she didn't have to go through this. Sending prayers of strength her way. :please::please:

Dr.Fessel
04-03-2012, 06:15 PM
Trayvon Martin's Girlfriend Interviewed By Prosecutors

"Trayvon's girlfriend was interviewed by the two district attorneys that Special Prosecutor Angela Corey appointed to the case," a source tells RadarOnline.com. "She was interviewed last week and her mother was present throughout. She was very forthcoming and had pertinent information to the investigation because she was the last person that talked to Trayvon before George Zimmerman shot and killed him. It was extremely emotional for her and her mother wanted to make sure it wasn't too much for her. She would be a very compelling witness for the state of Florida if criminal charges are filed against George Zimmmerman."

The Florida State Attorney's Office has issued a subpoena for Trayvon's girlfriend to appear in front of the grand jury when it's impaneled on April 10.

More at link…

http://www.radaronline.com/exclusives/2012/04/trayvon-martin-girlfriend-interviewed-prosecutors

Sounds like the SA is having a Grand Jury.

Elley Mae
04-03-2012, 06:21 PM
http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/04/03/us-usa-florida-shooting-trayvon-idUSBRE8320UK20120403

Emeralgem
04-03-2012, 06:22 PM
me thinks somebody with a gun watched too many movies.

JMO MOO IMO

I'll interject "OLD movies at that...JMHO

Boytwnmom
04-03-2012, 06:23 PM
done so much good by being such dignified and respectful representatives of their son. They are not screaming for blood but instead demanding justice, for the system to work as it should have. It is beyond clear to most people of good will that this was a coverup in the making and that absent the public attention the family was able to garner NOTHING more would have ever been heard or said about this case. I applaud them for being smart and savvy enought to call on Mr. Crump-I can't express enough how they did EXACTLY the right thing.

I would like to believe race didn't play a role here. But that wouldn't be true or consistent with the evidence, whether GZ's assumtions about the black boy up to no good or the police on the scene's assumptions about who TM was, certainly not a lawful resident of the complex but just some John Doe with a toe tag in the morgue, shot dead and left to be forgotten.

I hope that this case and the family foundation change things over time so that this type of tragedy is much less likely to happen. How anyone can disparage these poor people is beyond my comprehension. Yet, I continue to read the vilest suggestions about this victim and his family in every forum and I see just how far we have yet to go until justice is color blind in this country.


I applaud my fellow American citizens, of all races, who are standing side by side with the Martin Family. I feel a great sense of pride when I see all the rally's and marches and so many people have shown up to support them.

I do think race had a role in this case. I think if Trayvon had been white, there would have been an arrest. If Trayvon would have been the son of a Police Officer, George Zimmerman would have never walked out of that police station that night. It's sad, but true... and a lot of my fellow American's see it too and it is not something that should be ignored.

MOO

Elley Mae
04-03-2012, 06:25 PM
http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2012/04/03/trayvon-martin-george-zimmerman-and-medias-misleading-rhetoric-on-guns/

http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Justice/2012/0403/George-Zimmerman-head-wound-gives-little-clarity-to-Trayvon-Martin-case

mercuriod
04-03-2012, 06:26 PM
I have heard it reported that TM used the term "homes" to GZ. I make no statement as to the veracity of that claim but simply verify that I have seen it reported as "homes" not "homie"

I have heard this term used (although not recently) among hispanic culture in addition to the "homie" people tend to associate with rap or young AA Culture (also have not heard that term used in a while FWIW).

As a Mexican-American slang word created in Southern California with the early 20th century cholo style generation, the term can be traced back to fact-based films such as Boulevard Nights (dramatizing their culture from 1975–1978), Blood In Blood Out/Bound By Honor (1972-1984 culture), and American Me (1940-50s culture)

Homie - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homie)

So the term "homie" is used among the hispanic culture, hmmmmmm interesting isn't it that Zimmerman Sr. is the FIRST to bring this word up.

Boytwnmom
04-03-2012, 06:27 PM
movie and the copper shot the bad guy and he clutched his stomach and yelled "You got me"-I think it was Edward G Robinson? Well, whichever, we can agree the dialogue is bad and highly unlikely to occur in reality or in most of our reality I guess...




That is why I believe GZ came up with that word all on his own, thinking it was a slam, he thought it would bolster his story.
Same thing with "you got me" I saw an old western the other day where that phrase was used. I have to say it made me giggle when I heard it :giggle:
JMO

LolaMoon08
04-03-2012, 06:28 PM
I understand what you are saying. It makes it easier to understand gz frame of mind. Thats for sure.

I don't believe in censorship. I think everyone should have a right to say what's on their mind? I don't have to agree with it and sometimes I find it to be outright disgusting, but I'd rather know, then not know... know what I'm saying?

LambChop
04-03-2012, 06:35 PM
Im at a loss. How is it ok to say some of the things being said. im so sad. How disappointing

You know, belle3, I'm not sure why this is happening but I guess some feel that when certain information is released, or someone is discussing a certain point, that they have to come back with a negative counteroffer. Now not having much on the deceased victim, ends up as if the family had done something to deserve this....they want money, they're claiming race, they should have been stricter and kept TM in the house, they were uncaring because they failed to keep calling him 20 times that night, they went to bed thinking he was at the movies when he wasn't....and on, and on.

I guess it's a defensive response when you feel that you have to blame someone else when the information is just not to your liking or you really just want to believe your point of view is right.

But you are right, we should not have to make up things about either of the parents/families and present it as a fact because we do not know. The Martin's have lost a child, the Zimmerman's want to protect their's. jmo

uvamerica
04-03-2012, 06:35 PM
movie and the copper shot the bad guy and he clutched his stomach and yelled "You got me"-I think it was Edward G Robinson? Well, whichever, we can agree the dialogue is bad and highly unlikely to occur in reality or in most of our reality I guess...

OT ! LOL ! yes, I've seen that movie with Edward G. Robinson, it was Little Ceasar ! He's one of my fav actors of that time.

Nova
04-03-2012, 06:40 PM
I'm sure if you would ask Trayvon's parents if they would like their son back or a million dollars... they would pick their son.

ETA: <modsnip> If they just wanted money, they would quietly sue the HOA and Zimmerman. Instead they are reaching out to any and everyone to help them get Justice for their son.

:moo:

I agree. Under our system, punitive damages in a civil suit may be the ONLY form of justice available to survivors when there is a wrongful death.

If they choose to sue, TM's family will be obeying the law. That's supposed to be a good thing. The alternative would be buying a gun and going after GZ themselves. Surely we can all agree THAT would be wrong.

Concerned Papa
04-03-2012, 06:42 PM
Looks like the Officers of the Sanford Police Department who were on the scene had a plan for the <MODSNIP>:

http://i941.photobucket.com/albums/ad257/Papa813_bucket/TMPoliceReport2.png

UNNECESSARY KILLING......kinda sums it all up, doesn't it?

mercuriod
04-03-2012, 06:47 PM
Bringing this over from the last thread (not sure I am doing it right):


Beyond Belief Beyond Belief is offline
Registered User

Join Date: May 2005
Location: Florida's Treasure Coast
Posts: 13,484

Originally Posted by mercuriod View Post
BBM I call bullc*ap on that statement. I have worked in schools for over 25 years, as a teacher and an administrator, suspension is a punishment for actions, it is not "for the safety of the school". You are trying to make it look like since Trayvon was suspended from school he was a threat to the school and that is just morally WRONG! jmo, imo and all that jazz

The student’s presence in school presents a physical danger to the student or others;
Your going to have to read the rules yourself.. That line is under Outdoor Suspensions.
http://ehandbooks.dadeschools.net/po...90/csc_sec.pdf

I wouldn't argue with this subject with anyone, I want to know if something was going on with this child. EVERYTHING NEEDS TO BE LOOKED AT. Everyone is innocent until proven guilty.
This child is dead and I want to know WHY!! THE WHOLE WHY, NOT SOMEBODIES OPINIONInteresting that you only quote that ONE line from the Dade County Schools handbook and leave off all the rest:

"A principal may suspend a student from school for one (1) to ten (10) days for
persistent disobedience and/or serious misconduct. Principals take this action
when they have exhausted informal corrective strategies, or when they have at least
considered those alternatives and rejected them as inappropriate in a given
situation.
Outdoor suspension is appropriate under the following conditions:
• The student’s presence in school presents a physical danger to the student or others;
• A “cooling off” period is needed to relieve tensions and relieve pressure; and/or
• The student and/or parent/guardian refuse an alternative to suspension.
A suspended student has the right to request and obtain make-up assignments for
the time he or she was suspended from school. It is the responsibility of the student
to request make-up work for assignments missed due a suspension.
A suspended student is entitled to be notified of the reason for suspension and an
opportunity to be heard. Parents/Guardians must be provided notice within 24
hours by U.S. mail."

jmo, imo and all that jazz

Also have to say that is the first time I have ever heard it called "Outdoor Suspension", always heard it referred to as "Out of School Suspension". Makes it sound like the student is expected to spend the entire suspension on a camping trip or something, LOL. Again jmo, imo and all that jazz

Etilema
04-03-2012, 06:51 PM
Looks like the Officers of the Sanford Police Department who were on the scene had a plan for <modsnip>:

http://i941.photobucket.com/albums/ad257/Papa813_bucket/TMPoliceReport2.png

UNNECESSARY KILLING......kinda sums it all up, doesn't it?

Where is that, on the report? How can I find it? (Sorry to be so lame. I'm having trouble keeping up. . .)

TonyGatto
04-03-2012, 06:51 PM
Looks like the Officers of the Sanford Police Department who were on the scene had a plan for the <MODSNIP>:

http://i941.photobucket.com/albums/ad257/Papa813_bucket/TMPoliceReport2.png

UNNECESSARY KILLING......kinda sums it all up, doesn't it?

Serino.

uvamerica
04-03-2012, 06:53 PM
Looks like the Officers of the Sanford Police Department who were on the scene had a plan for the <MODSNIP>:

http://i941.photobucket.com/albums/ad257/Papa813_bucket/TMPoliceReport2.png

This also caught my eye ! I'm so glad you brought it up, is that a standard form used when there is a shooting ? it looks as though LE was gonna arrest him for manslaughter, until the SA and chief had their say ? I'm confused :waitasec:

LolaMoon08
04-03-2012, 06:54 PM
Since the 15-year-old girlfriend is being called to testify at the Grand Jury, that must mean the phone records matched up and she was telling the truth. I think that can be put to rest now? Right?

ETA: Telling the truth about being on the phone with Trayvon.

LolaMoon08
04-03-2012, 06:55 PM
Looks like the Officers of the Sanford Police Department who were on the scene had a plan for the <MODSNIP>:

http://i941.photobucket.com/albums/ad257/Papa813_bucket/TMPoliceReport2.png

UNNECESSARY KILLING......kinda sums it all up, doesn't it?

I would like to know what "unlawful act" was being prevented though? It's not against the law to walk down the street?

Concerned Papa
04-03-2012, 06:57 PM
Where is that, on the report? How can I find it? (Sorry to be so lame. I'm having trouble keeping up. . .)

Page 1 of 4

http://mit.zenfs.com/102/2012/04/69081607-29132322.pdf

Etilema
04-03-2012, 06:58 PM
I would like to know what "unlawful act" was being prevented though? It's not against the law to walk down the street?

To PREVENT unlawful act. If he's dead, he can't burglarize.
UGH! Infuriating.

Concerned Papa
04-03-2012, 07:02 PM
This also caught my eye ! I'm so glad you brought it up, is that a standard form used when there is a shooting ? it looks as though LE was gonna arrest him for manslaughter, until the SA and chief had their say ? I'm confused :waitasec:

Never seen this particular statute before. I should have cropped the entire line, but it reads: Statute #782.11, UCR 090C, Attempt/Commit - C

(BBM)

flourish
04-03-2012, 07:04 PM
I'm sure if you would ask Trayvon's parents if they would like their son back or a million dollars... they would pick their son.

ETA: <modsnip> If they just wanted money, they would quietly sue the HOA and Zimmerman. Instead they are reaching out to any and everyone to help them get Justice for their son.

:moo:

ITA
<modsnip>

*Sigh*
I remain disgusted at those whose choose to blame and criticize and trash TM's family. It's abhorrent heartless, ignorant, cruel behavior. IMO.

I personally know I'd give anything and everything I had to give to get my murdered child back. I suspect the Martin family feels the same.

I think a huge helping of COMPASSION is in order.

oh_gal
04-03-2012, 07:05 PM
I thought it was against TOS to bash the victimS here? (Note plural)

Etilema
04-03-2012, 07:06 PM
Page 1 of 4

http://mit.zenfs.com/102/2012/04/69081607-29132322.pdf

Thanks so much. Is that section about potential charges that could be brought, pending further investigation? Or was GZ placed under arrest due to that offense, and later released? Or do we really not know?

Emeralgem
04-03-2012, 07:09 PM
Looks like the Officers of the Sanford Police Department who were on the scene had a plan for the <MODSNIP>:

http://i941.photobucket.com/albums/ad257/Papa813_bucket/TMPoliceReport2.png

UNNECESSARY KILLING......kinda sums it all up, doesn't it?

BBM..Yep, for me it does.. BTW.. Where did you find that, Sherlock?

Concerned Papa
04-03-2012, 07:10 PM
Thanks so much. Is that section about potential charges that could be brought, pending further investigation? Or was GZ placed under arrest due to that offense, and later released? Or do we really not know?

IDK, but it seems to me that's what the Officer on the scene thought was appropriate or he wouldn't have typed it in.

Concerned Papa
04-03-2012, 07:11 PM
BBM..Yep, for me it does.. BTW.. Where did you find that, Sherlock?

Page 1 of 4

http://mit.zenfs.com/102/2012/04/69081607-29132322.pdf :floorlaugh:

grammieto5
04-03-2012, 07:12 PM
I don't believe in censorship. I think everyone should have a right to say what's on their mind? I don't have to agree with it and sometimes I find it to be outright disgusting, but I'd rather know, then not know... know what I'm saying?

I know what you mean, and I agree! "I may not agree with what you say but I will defend your right to say it"

Etilema
04-03-2012, 07:12 PM
IDK, but it seems to me that's what the Officer on the scene thought was appropriate or he wouldn't have typed it in.

Right--that would have been the potential offense. It was the reason to take him into custody and take him to the station. But upon further questioning, or whatever, they determined not to make that charge.

2goldfish
04-03-2012, 07:15 PM
<modsnip>


not everyone is the anthony's yall, falling over themselves to get on dr phil and put donation canisters and paypal buttons all over the free world.

Etilema
04-03-2012, 07:15 PM
Feel free to alert questionable posts for the mods to see.

What does that mean? My comment was not in reference to any questionable posts.

rotterdam
04-03-2012, 07:15 PM
Looks like the Officers of the Sanford Police Department who were on the scene had a plan for the <MODSNIP>:

http://i941.photobucket.com/albums/ad257/Papa813_bucket/TMPoliceReport2.png

UNNECESSARY KILLING......kinda sums it all up, doesn't it?


But But what was the unlawful act:waitasec: Trayvon was not breaking in.

flourish
04-03-2012, 07:19 PM
What does that mean? My comment was not in reference to any questionable posts.

I'm sorry, Oops, I thought I was responding to something completely different...

I sincerely apologize, Etilema, I didn't mean to do that. I've deleted my original post.
Again, I apologize! Thank you for asking me about it in such a kind calm manner. I appreciate that:)

2goldfish
04-03-2012, 07:19 PM
But But what was the unlawful act:waitasec: Trayvon was not breaking in.


my guess is at the beginning they didnt know all trayvon had on him were skittles, iced tea, and a phone. they had GZ's tale of heartache and woe and superheroism :sick: but even were his story 100% he still could have had these charges brought.


nice to see SOMEONE brought their brain that day.

Concerned Papa
04-03-2012, 07:21 PM
But But what was the unlawful act:waitasec: Trayvon was not breaking in.

My best guess is that when this report was typed and the potential charge filled in, it was probably before they knew TM was living there.

Etilema
04-03-2012, 07:22 PM
I'm sorry, I thought your post was expressing concerns about victim bashing? I was letting you know you can alert posts that appear to be doing so. I wasn't implying you were doing anything wrong, I was trying to be helpful. I apologize if I misunderstood and/or was not helpful.

:)

No problem. I really DO have concerns about victim bashing and so your comment was not misdirected. It's just that that particular post was not about that.

Isabelle
04-03-2012, 07:22 PM
My best guess is that when this report was typed and the potential charge filled in, it was probably before they knew TM was living there.

They were probably going by GZ's word.

Adrienne37
04-03-2012, 07:23 PM
Best definition I could find...

Unlawful act manslaughter
Under English law, according to R v Creamer,[13] a person is guilty of involuntary manslaughter when he or she intends an unlawful act that is likely to do harm to the person, and death results which was neither foreseen nor intended. The alternative name for this crime is constructive manslaughter. Although the accused did not intend to cause serious harm or foresee the risk of doing so, and although an objective observer would not necessarily have predicted that serious harm would result, the accused's responsibility for causing death is constructed from the fault in committing what might have been a minor criminal act.

flourish
04-03-2012, 07:24 PM
I thought it was against TOS to bash the victimS here? (Note plural)

Oh! This is the post I was looking for:)
If you see a post that appears to be against TOS you can alert the post by clicking the red triangle at the top right of the post. A mod can take a look and edit/delete if they see fit. Hope that helps:)

Etilema
04-03-2012, 07:24 PM
But But what was the unlawful act:waitasec: Trayvon was not breaking in.

I think that "prevent" is the key word. He was not YET doing anything unlawful, so this was an illegal and unnecessary preventive measure. But that is really the sickening point that this whole case hinges on--the assumption that a black teenager in a hoodie is bound to commit an unlawful act unless someone intervenes.

Horace Finklestein
04-03-2012, 07:25 PM
I would like to know what "unlawful act" was being prevented though? It's not against the law to walk down the street?

I'm guessing that was related to him being beaten by TM, as the witness stated.

LambChop
04-03-2012, 07:26 PM
But But what was the unlawful act:waitasec: Trayvon was not breaking in.

I thought it was drugs.....they called a narcotics officer to the scene and we know it wasn't for GZ. jmo

ThoughtFox
04-03-2012, 07:26 PM
OT ! LOL ! yes, I've seen that movie with Edward G. Robinson, it was Little Ceasar ! He's one of my fav actors of that time.

OMG - I was thinking about that movie yesterday when I read the "You got me" line! It sounds like a cross between Edward G. Robinson and Jimmy Cagney in every old gangster movie ever made! Johnny Rocco in Key Largo!

Is this the end of Rico?

suzihawk
04-03-2012, 07:28 PM
ITA
<modsnip>

*Sigh*
I remain disgusted at those whose choose to blame and criticize and trash TM's family. It's abhorrent heartless, ignorant, cruel behavior. IMO.

I personally know I'd give anything and everything I had to give to get my murdered child back. I suspect the Martin family feels the same.

I think a huge helping of COMPASSION is in order.

I'm so very sorry for the loss of your child, flourish. It's a club none of us should belong to. :grouphug: I'd sell my soul to the devil himself just to have five minutes with my daughter.

I have to wonder if those who say such cruel and hate filled things have any idea how deep the knife cuts. May they never find themselves in the position to find out.


RIP Trayvon. Your parents are doing you proud.

rotterdam
04-03-2012, 07:30 PM
My best guess is that when this report was typed and the potential charge filled in, it was probably before they knew TM was living there.

I thought may be they wrote that because GZ stated that Tray will going to kill him which would have been an illegal act unless you were GZ.
But then Tray was also legally standing his ground since he was in fear of his life too. Kind of winner takes all. What a mess Florida created with this very liberal "walking along with you" SYG.

uvamerica
04-03-2012, 07:34 PM
OMG - I was thinking about that movie yesterday when I read the "You got me" line! It sounds like a cross between Edward G. Robinson and Jimmy Cagney in every old gangster movie ever made! Johnny Rocco in Key Largo!

Is this the end of Rico?


:floorlaugh: :floorlaugh:

I'm a TCM fan !
Yep ! "you got me" was used allot in the old gangster movies, and some of the old westerns.

Etilema
04-03-2012, 07:36 PM
I'm guessing that was related to him being beaten by TM, as the witness stated.

That would seem more to be a matter of self-defense, though, which is not the same thing.

Etilema
04-03-2012, 07:38 PM
I thought may be they wrote that because GZ stated that Tray will going to kill him which would have been an illegal act unless you were GZ.
But then Tray was also legally standing his ground since he was in fear of his life too. Kind of winner takes all. What a mess Florida created with this very liberal "walking along with you" SYG.

I think it is not an offense to kill someone who is trying to kill you. That is justified--self-defense.

m00c0w
04-03-2012, 07:38 PM
That would seem more to be a matter of self-defense, though, which is not the same thing.
If he used force that was disproportionate to the threat, that would be the statute he'd be charged under.

thefragile7393
04-03-2012, 07:39 PM
Since the 15-year-old girlfriend is being called to testify at the Grand Jury, that must mean the phone records matched up and she was telling the truth. I think that can be put to rest now? Right?

ETA: Telling the truth about being on the phone with Trayvon.

< mod snip >
Yes this will support what many here have said...that her word is credible. It says a lot when her testimony is found to be useful, should this go to any sort of GJ or charges.

Sent from my SGH-T989 using Tapatalk

Horace Finklestein
04-03-2012, 07:40 PM
That would seem more to be a matter of self-defense, though, which is not the same thing.

I was thinking the preventing unlawful act related to the self defense. I don't know how they classify those things though.

Wise Old Owl
04-03-2012, 07:45 PM
Maybe with LE not knowing who TM was - the unlawful act was trespassing? IDK



JMHO

legalmania
04-03-2012, 07:46 PM
I still don't understand if Zimmerman was a neighborhood watch guy and Martin lived there how come they didn't know each other?

lauriej
04-03-2012, 07:47 PM
--someone had asked for the video interview on the previous tread..

http://video.foxnews.com/v/1543560623001/what-really-happened-the-night-trayvon-martin-died/

Exclusive: 'Geraldo at Large' talks to Trayvon's father's girlfriend and her son at the gated community where he was shot. 4:43

Adrienne37
04-03-2012, 07:48 PM
I still don't understand if Zimmerman was a neighborhood watch guy and Martin lived there how come they didn't know each other?

Because Trayvon and his father were only visiting. Trayvon's father's fiance lives in the complex.



~jmo~

jjenny
04-03-2012, 07:48 PM
I still don't understand if Zimmerman was a neighborhood watch guy and Martin lived there how come they didn't know each other?

Trayvon Martin didn't live there. He was only there with his father visiting father's girlfriend.

legalmania
04-03-2012, 07:50 PM
Because Trayvon and his father were only visiting. Trayvon's father's fiance lives in the complex.



~jmo~

Oh o.k. I'd never heard that before.

iluvmua
04-03-2012, 07:50 PM
I still don't understand if Zimmerman was a neighborhood watch guy and Martin lived there how come they didn't know each other?

Because Tracy Martin & Trayvon lived in Miami. His GF, Brandy Green lived at teh complex.

That is why GZ didn't know who he was.

w1df10wr
04-03-2012, 07:52 PM
I still don't understand if Zimmerman was a neighborhood watch guy and Martin lived there how come they didn't know each other?

There are 260+ condo units in the Retreat at Twin Lakes complex. It would be impossible for GZ to know every owner/renter / family / friends etc, imo.

Bee Happy
04-03-2012, 08:00 PM
Holy camoley. By the time I got to the end of the other thread it was closed. LOL
Question: Has GZ ever shown any remorse?

csziggy
04-03-2012, 08:01 PM
Never seen this particular statute before. I should have cropped the entire line, but it reads: Statute #782.11, UCR 090C, Attempt/Commit - C

(BBM)

Here's the whole thing.


782.11 Unnecessary killing to prevent unlawful act.—Whoever shall unnecessarily kill another, either while resisting an attempt by such other person to commit any felony, or to do any other unlawful act, or after such attempt shall have failed, shall be deemed guilty of manslaughter, a felony of the second degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082, s. 775.083, or s. 775.084.
History.—s. 13, ch. 1637, 1868; RS 2388; GS 3213; RGS 5043; CGL 7145; s. 719, ch. 71-136.
http://www.leg.state.fl.us/Statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&Search_String=&URL=0700-0799/0782/Sections/0782.11.html

Beyond Belief
04-03-2012, 08:01 PM
Are witnesses crossed examined at Grand Jury hearings?

Bee Happy
04-03-2012, 08:02 PM
Also, I don't understand why either side wouldn't want an investigation. Wouldn't it clear GZ's name or bring clarity?

LolaMoon08
04-03-2012, 08:03 PM
ITA
< mod snip >

*Sigh*
I remain disgusted at those whose choose to blame and criticize and trash TM's family. It's abhorrent heartless, ignorant, cruel behavior. IMO.

I personally know I'd give anything and everything I had to give to get my murdered child back. I suspect the Martin family feels the same.

I think a huge helping of COMPASSION is in order.

:hug: (((((((((((Flourish)))))))))))

suzihawk
04-03-2012, 08:04 PM
Holy camoley. By the time I got to the end of the other thread it was closed. LOL
Question: Has GZ ever shown any remorse?

< mod snip >

The only thing I've heard is how that cried for days. But that was from either Oliver, Taafe or his brother. So you can take that for what it's worth.

highflyer
04-03-2012, 08:05 PM
I'd like to know if George Zimmerman and Trayvon Martin had any previous encounters.

LolaMoon08
04-03-2012, 08:05 PM
Are witnesses crossed examined at Grand Jury hearings?

I don't think so? I think it is just the State presenting evidence to show cause for charges to be filed? If I remember correctly, the "other Florida case" defense lawyers weren't present during the Grand Jury hearing?

Adrienne37
04-03-2012, 08:09 PM
Trayvon Martin: George Zimmerman hires Casey Anthony TV analyst

George Zimmerman has hired attorney Hal Uhrig, stations reported tonight. The name will be familiar to people who followed the Casey Anthony coverage, because Uhrig offered analysis for Fox-owned WOFL-Channel 35


http://blogs.orlandosentinel.com/entertainment_tv_tvblog/2012/04/trayvon-martin-george-zimmerman-hires-casey-anthony-tv-analyst.html

legalmania
04-03-2012, 08:09 PM
There are 260+ condo units in the Retreat at Twin Lakes complex. It would be impossible for GZ to know every owner/renter / family / friends etc, imo.

It wouldn't be impossible I lived in a condo where the doorman knew everyone who lived there. If he didn't know you, you would get stopped and asked for I.D. There was about 400 unites there.

Bee Happy
04-03-2012, 08:10 PM
< mod snip >

The only thing I've heard is how that cried for days. But that was from either Oliver, Taafe or his brother. So you can take that for what it's worth.

Thanks!

Maybe it's the type of person I am, but if I killed an unarmed teen, I'd be apologizing my BUTT off. I'd be explaining like crazy how I THOUGHT he was after me, and how I wish I could take it all back. I would feel downright awful.

Beyond Belief
04-03-2012, 08:13 PM
We were jus talking about the "groan" in the 911 tape. i feel like I hear and it was mentioned in one of the other 911 calls. Its in the middle of fight. If a guy is kneed in the private area I know that would cause a groan but would it leave any visible injuries that would be seen at autopsy?
Just some questions.

thanks for the response on the GJ question we had.

LambChop
04-03-2012, 08:14 PM
I was thinking the preventing unlawful act related to the self defense. I don't know how they classify those things though.

There wasn't any unlawful act, only the person who is claiming self defense told LE there was a suspicion of a crime but could not say what the crime would be. What he described was not a crime. Even look suspicious is not a crime. Preventing an unlawful act would be watching him trying to break into a car. jmo

highflyer
04-03-2012, 08:15 PM
When I listen to the tape it's as if Zimmerman is a narrator setting the scene.

...break-ins in neighborhood

...looks like he's up to no good

...or he's on drugs or something

...he looks black

...he was just staring

...he's got his hand in his waistband. And he's a black male.

imamaze
04-03-2012, 08:15 PM
Reminder...

Clairfication on WS stance regarding the "victim friendly" issue.
I had a discussion with the owners about how we were to deal with this. This is what I was advised:
At this point in the investigation we don't KNOW exactly who ALL the victims are now. We KNOW that Trayvon is a victim, because he is dead. However, news breaks and new leaks come forth everyday and it is still unclear whether Zimmerman was a victim of any violence. Until more verifiable FACTS are available, WS has chosen to err on the side of treating both the confirmed (Trayvon) AND potential (Zimmerman) victim, both as victims.
Like I said, that may change after we have more verifiable information
Hope that helps clear this up.
Please bump as needed.

This includes Trayvon's family!

Ima

LolaMoon08
04-03-2012, 08:16 PM
Trayvon Martin: George Zimmerman hires Casey Anthony TV analyst

George Zimmerman has hired attorney Hal Uhrig, stations reported tonight. The name will be familiar to people who followed the Casey Anthony coverage, because Uhrig offered analysis for Fox-owned WOFL-Channel 35


http://blogs.orlandosentinel.com/entertainment_tv_tvblog/2012/04/trayvon-martin-george-zimmerman-hires-casey-anthony-tv-analyst.html


I've never heard that name before? Who is he?

ETA: I followed that case from start to finish (it's not even finished yet) and I have never heard this name?

LambChop
04-03-2012, 08:17 PM
We were jus talking about the "groan" in the 911 tape. i feel like I hear and it was mentioned in one of the other 911 calls. Its in the middle of fight. If a guy is kneed in the private area I know that would cause a groan but would it leave any visible injuries that would be seen at autoposy?
Just some questions.

thanks for the response on the GJ question we had.

Bruises, maybe. Could be the groan was because TM saw the gun and tried to get away. jmo

Etilema
04-03-2012, 08:19 PM
If he used force that was disproportionate to the threat, that would be the statute he'd be charged under.

Still, not PREVENTING the beating by shooting him. Only intervening in it. It would probably help if we could look up the actual wording of the statute.

LolaMoon08
04-03-2012, 08:20 PM
Thanks!

Maybe it's the type of person I am, but if I killed an unarmed teen, I'd be apologizing my BUTT off. I'd be explaining like crazy how I THOUGHT he was after me, and how I wish I could take it all back. I would feel downright awful.

I get upset after I kill ants! All they want is food and shelter, but I don't want them biting my cat! Now spiders, they can all die!!

I couldn't imagine killing another human being? Especially under these circumstances?

Etilema
04-03-2012, 08:20 PM
When I listen to the tape it's as if Zimmerman is a narrator setting the scene.

...break-ins in neighborhood

...looks like he's up to no good

...or he's on drugs or something

...he looks black

...he was just staring

...he's got his hand in his waistband. And he's a black male.

Setting the scene to establish that he will be acting in self-defense.

SuziQ
04-03-2012, 08:21 PM
I agree. Under our system, punitive damages in a civil suit may be the ONLY form of justice available to survivors when there is a wrongful death.

If they choose to sue, TM's family will be obeying the law. That's supposed to be a good thing. The alternative would be buying a gun and going after GZ themselves. Surely we can all agree THAT would be wrong.

BBM. This was the only option for me and my kids. Thank goodness I filed that suit and won. Several things I accomplished by filing that suit. I got the truth. If I did not file the lawsuit, I would never have known why my husband died. Because I filed the lawsuit changes were made and others will not die like my husband did. So anyone who thinks that lawsuits are a bad thing, only about the money, and reflect badly on the plaintiff are flat out wrong. They owe thanks to people who file lawsuits. Their cars are safer, their medicines are safer, houses are safer, etc. You hurt someone in the pocketbook and they pay attention to you and change the way they do things. That's why we have punitive damages. It is for punishment. They can be huge dollar amounts. The deeper the pockets the bigger the award. It sends a message that the bad behavior better stop and better not happen again.

legalmania
04-03-2012, 08:21 PM
According to this Fox News interview it sounds like both Trayvon and his dad stayed there from time to time. With it being Mr. Martins girlfriend I'm sure his dad was there a lot.

http://fox2now.com/2012/03/22/trayvons-father-speaks-about-sons-murder/

Badlands
04-03-2012, 08:22 PM
It wouldn't be impossible I lived in a condo where the doorman knew everyone who lived there. If he didn't know you, you would get stopped and asked for I.D. There was about 400 unites there.

I'm sure you can see the difference between a doorman who sees every person coming and going and a "Neighborhood Watch" guy, who is just driving around.

Etilema
04-03-2012, 08:24 PM
According to this Fox News interview it sounds like both Trayvon and his dad stayed there from time to time. With it being Mr. Martins girlfriend I'm sure his dad was there a lot.

http://fox2now.com/2012/03/22/trayvons-father-speaks-about-sons-murder/

Does Tracy Martin not live with his girlfriend? Does he have a separate residence?

Etilema
04-03-2012, 08:25 PM
I'm sure you can see the difference between a doorman who sees every person coming and going and a "Neighborhood Watch" guy, who is just driving around.

Also, that's, like, part of the doorman's job.

Badlands
04-03-2012, 08:26 PM
Does Tracy Martin not live with his girlfriend? Does he have a separate residence?

He lives in Miami, four hours away.

LolaMoon08
04-03-2012, 08:26 PM
Does Tracy Martin not live with his girlfriend? Does he have a separate residence?

He lives in Miami.

legalmania
04-03-2012, 08:27 PM
I'm sure you can see the difference between a doorman who sees every person coming and going and a "Neighborhood Watch" guy, who is just driving around.

They both should be friendly and courteous and get to know everyone as well as everyone know them. It's just like your bank or your grocery store we know and respect each other.

Adrienne37
04-03-2012, 08:28 PM
I've never heard that name before? Who is he?

ETA: I followed that case from start to finish (it's not even finished yet) and I have never heard this name?

I hadn't heard of him either Lola but that's probably because I was extremely partial to Bill S and always tuned into WFTV first and foremost and WESH occasionally.



~jmo~

Beyond Belief
04-03-2012, 08:28 PM
some of the statues would be great, of course with some explanations if they are hard to understand.
i saw one somewhere that talked about interference with NWP, but I didn't understand if it had any bearing here.

One more question does this community have a pool?

TonyGatto
04-03-2012, 08:29 PM
Are witnesses crossed examined at Grand Jury hearings?

No. Just the prosecutor questions witnesses.

rotterdam
04-03-2012, 08:30 PM
Trayvon Martin: George Zimmerman hires Casey Anthony TV analyst

George Zimmerman has hired attorney Hal Uhrig, stations reported tonight. The name will be familiar to people who followed the Casey Anthony coverage, because Uhrig offered analysis for Fox-owned WOFL-Channel 35


http://blogs.orlandosentinel.com/entertainment_tv_tvblog/2012/04/trayvon-martin-george-zimmerman-hires-casey-anthony-tv-analyst.html

I wonder if we can deduce that an arrest/charge is forthcoming. Otherwise, why would they bother.

Concerned Papa
04-03-2012, 08:30 PM
I'm trying to understand exactly how GZ could shoot TM at 7:16 pm, yet arrive at the Sanford jail 36 minutes later at 7:52 pm, looking fresh as a daisy. I've put 3 thumbnails at the bottom.

The shot that killed Trayvon was fired at a little before 7:17 pm which is also close to the initial arrival times for the first responders for the SPD. Notice where Officer Smith tells us that he parked his squad car and realize it is 176 feet from the car to where the body was found.

On the narrative of 2 different police reports I have underlined in red what I see as the pertinent elements of time in 2 or 3 regards.

-The disarming and cuffing of GZ. Notice on Officer Ayala's report, he notes that Officer Smith is holding GZ at gunpoint. How long do you think was involved in Officer Smith's walking from his car and the disarming, cuffing, and containment of GZ?

-The CPR efforts on TM's body involved the efforts of THREE SPD Officers prior to the arrival of the SFD who attempted to revive him as well and pronounced TM dead at 7:30 pm. If you will notice on Officer Smith's report, he notes his standing there observing all of this activity, and only then took GZ to the rear of his squad car. Sounds like to me that George Zimmerman wasn't placed in the back of that car until AFTER 7:30 pm after being walked approximately 1 minute to where Office Smith has clearly told us his car was parked.

-At this point GZ has had NO noted medical or cleanup attention. According to these reports he couldn't have been placed in that car before 7:31 pm at best.

How did a man who had supposedly been chasing a kid around that development in the rain.....getting his nose broken by the attack of TM.....rolling around on the muddy ground and grass.....bleeding from his head being bashed against the sidewalk.....and pulling a gun and shooting the attacker on top of him in the heart....get medical attention to the point of no visible blood or injury AND get cleaned up to walk into the Sanford Jail clean as a whistle 21 minutes later including a SIXTEEN MINUTE DRIVE?

http://i941.photobucket.com/albums/ad257/Papa813_bucket/TMJail5-2.pnghttp://i941.photobucket.com/albums/ad257/Papa813_bucket/TMJail4.png

Etilema
04-03-2012, 08:31 PM
some of the statues would be great, of course with some explanations if they are hard to understand.
i saw one somewhere that talked about interference with NWP, but I didn't understand if it had any bearing here.

One more question does this community have a pool?

Here we go:

782.11 Unnecessary killing to prevent unlawful act.—Whoever shall unnecessarily kill another, either while resisting an attempt by such other person to commit any felony, or to do any other unlawful act, or after such attempt shall have failed, shall be deemed guilty of manslaughter, a felony of the second degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082, s. 775.083, or s. 775.084.

http://www.flsenate.gov/Laws/Statutes/2011/782.11

legalmania
04-03-2012, 08:33 PM
Does Tracy Martin not live with his girlfriend? Does he have a separate residence?

Yes, he says that, however he said he went to sleep the night of his sons death and his girlfriend woke up saying Trayvon hadn't gotten home yet.

ynotdivein
04-03-2012, 08:34 PM
some of the statues would be great, of course with some explanations if they are hard to understand.
i saw one somewhere that talked about interference with NWP, but I didn't understand if it had any bearing here.

One more question does this community have a pool?

RBBM

It does, BB. If you go to this Google map (http://maps.google.com/maps?q=twin+trees+orlando+fl&oe=utf-8&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a&um=1&ie=UTF-8&ei=85Z7T4nlAYXo0QGL_4mkBg&sa=X&oi=mode_link&ct=mode&cd=3&ved=0CAwQ_AUoAg), you can zoom in on the area where the "A" pushpin is and see the clubhouse, with pool behind, and a small pond behind that.

Adrienne37
04-03-2012, 08:36 PM
I'm trying to understand exactly how GZ could shoot TM at 7:16 pm, yet arrive at the Sanford jail 36 minutes later at 7:52 pm, looking fresh as a daisy. I've put 3 thumbnails at the bottom.

The shot that killed Trayvon was fired at a little before 7:17 pm which is also close to the initial arrival times for the first responders for the SPD. Notice where Officer Smith tells us that he parked his squad car and realize it is 176 feet from the car to where the body was found.

On the narrative of 2 different police reports I have underlined in red what I see as the pertinent elements of time in 2 or 3 regards.

-The disarming and cuffing of GZ. Notice on Officer Ayala's report, he notes that Officer Smith is holding GZ at gunpoint. How long do you think was involved in Officer Smith's walking from his car and the disarming, cuffing, and containment of GZ?

-The CPR efforts on TM's body involved the efforts of THREE SPD Officers prior to the arrival of the SFD who attempted to revive him as well and pronounced TM dead at 7:30 pm. If you will notice on Officer Smith's report, he notes his standing there observing all of this activity, and only then took GZ to the rear of his squad car. Sounds like to me that George Zimmerman wasn't placed in the back of that car until AFTER 7:30 pm after being walked approximately 1 minute to where Office Smith has clearly told us his car was parked.

-At this point GZ has had NO noted medical or cleanup attention. According to these reports he couldn't have been placed in that car before 7:31 pm at best.

How did a man who had supposedly been chasing a kid around that development in the rain.....getting his nose broken by the attack of TM.....rolling around on the muddy ground and grass.....bleeding from his head being bashed against the sidewalk.....and pulling a gun and shooting the attacker on top of him in the heart....get medical attention to the point of no visible blood or injury AND get cleaned up to walk into the Sanford Jail clean as a whistle 21 minutes later including a SIXTEEN MINUTE DRIVE?

http://i941.photobucket.com/albums/ad257/Papa813_bucket/TMJail5-2.pnghttp://i941.photobucket.com/albums/ad257/Papa813_bucket/TMJail4.png

The only way it could happen is if the injuries that Zimmerman says he got were really nothing at all.

Etilema
04-03-2012, 08:37 PM
I *really* do not think that the unlawful act (felony) that is being referenced in that offense (per statute posted above) was supposed to be the alleged beating/attempted killing of GZ. I really think that would be a matter of self-defense, not a matter of killing someone to prevent a felony. Where are our lawyers??

Beyond Belief
04-03-2012, 08:39 PM
http://www.self-defender.net/law2.htm


1998 FLORIDA STATUTES
CHAPTER 776
JUSTIFIABLE USE OF FORCE

I didn't know if these had all changed or not.

Badlands
04-03-2012, 08:40 PM
How did a man who had supposedly been chasing a kid around that development in the rain.....getting his nose broken by the attack of TM.....rolling around on the muddy ground and grass.....bleeding from his head being bashed against the sidewalk.....and pulling a gun and shooting the attacker on top of him in the heart....get medical attention to the point of no visible blood or injury AND get cleaned up to walk into the Sanford Jail clean as a whistle 21 minutes later including a SIXTEEN MINUTE DRIVE?


That question is a brilliant synopsis of why his story seems so implausible.

< mod snip >

gxm
04-03-2012, 08:41 PM
Also, I don't understand why either side wouldn't want an investigation. Wouldn't it clear GZ's name or bring clarity?

At this point, I don't think so. GZ should have been charged, initially, with manslaughter. The self-defense or SYG claim could then have been presented at trial. At this point this case is so muddied, he's been judged and found guilty via national tv and internet. IMO a fair trial and clarity are out of the question. Conversely, jurors may over reach on the reasonable doubt in an effort to not appear "tainted" by the negative publicity GZ has received (which is something IMO that happens with these intensely covered cases where jurors go out of their way to be "fair" and "impartial" and end up with a CA verdict).

JMO, OMO, and :moo:

LambChop
04-03-2012, 08:41 PM
Yes, he says that, however he said he went to sleep the night of his sons death and his girlfriend woke up saying Trayvon hadn't gotten home yet.

Do you have a link for that? I don't think I ever saw it, or are you saying she woke up in the morning and told him Trayvon had not come home.

TonyGatto
04-03-2012, 08:41 PM
I'm trying to understand exactly how GZ could shoot TM at 7:16 pm, yet arrive at the Sanford jail 36 minutes later at 7:52 pm, looking fresh as a daisy. I've put 3 thumbnails at the bottom.

The shot that killed Trayvon was fired at a little before 7:17 pm which is also close to the initial arrival times for the first responders for the SPD. Notice where Officer Smith tells us that he parked his squad car and realize it is 176 feet from the car to where the body was found.

On the narrative of 2 different police reports I have underlined in red what I see as the pertinent elements of time in 2 or 3 regards.

-The disarming and cuffing of GZ. Notice on Officer Ayala's report, he notes that Officer Smith is holding GZ at gunpoint. How long do you think was involved in Officer Smith's walking from his car and the disarming, cuffing, and containment of GZ?

-The CPR efforts on TM's body involved the efforts of THREE SPD Officers prior to the arrival of the SFD who attempted to revive him as well and pronounced TM dead at 7:30 pm. If you will notice on Officer Smith's report, he notes his standing there observing all of this activity, and only then took GZ to the rear of his squad car. Sounds like to me that George Zimmerman wasn't placed in the back of that car until AFTER 7:30 pm after being walked approximately 1 minute to where Office Smith has clearly told us his car was parked.

-At this point GZ has had NO noted medical or cleanup attention. According to these reports he couldn't have been placed in that car before 7:31 pm at best.

How did a man who had supposedly been chasing a kid around that development in the rain.....getting his nose broken by the attack of TM.....rolling around on the muddy ground and grass.....bleeding from his head being bashed against the sidewalk.....and pulling a gun and shooting the attacker on top of him in the heart....get medical attention to the point of no visible blood or injury AND get cleaned up to walk into the Sanford Jail clean as a whistle 21 minutes later including a SIXTEEN MINUTE DRIVE?

http://i941.photobucket.com/albums/ad257/Papa813_bucket/TMJail5-2.pnghttp://i941.photobucket.com/albums/ad257/Papa813_bucket/TMJail4.png

Don't forget a police car will be able to travel faster than a regular car, can pass lights et cetera...so I would cut the 16 minutes considerably. However your point still stands. Things happened real fast. EMS could not have done more than a cursory check on GZ.

legalmania
04-03-2012, 08:42 PM
Here we go:

782.11 Unnecessary killing to prevent unlawful act.—Whoever shall unnecessarily kill another, either while resisting an attempt by such other person to commit any felony, or to do any other unlawful act, or after such attempt shall have failed, shall be deemed guilty of manslaughter, a felony of the second degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082, s. 775.083, or s. 775.084.

http://www.flsenate.gov/Laws/Statutes/2011/782.11

This is the problem, there is such a gray area with the Stand Your Ground Law. This is under Justifiable Homicide.

http://www.flsenate.gov/Laws/Statutes/2011/776.012

legalmania
04-03-2012, 08:46 PM
Do you have a link for that? I don't think I ever saw it, or are you saying she woke up in the morning and told him Trayvon had not come home.

Lamb Chop I think it's on page 5 it's a fox interview with the dad. You might want to listen and see what you think. Post 120.

SondraK
04-03-2012, 08:46 PM
:rocker::rocker:CONCERNED PAPA:rocker::rocker:

ONCE AGAIN, YOU DAZZLE WITH LOGIC

LambChop
04-03-2012, 08:47 PM
I'm trying to understand exactly how GZ could shoot TM at 7:16 pm, yet arrive at the Sanford jail 36 minutes later at 7:52 pm, looking fresh as a daisy. I've put 3 thumbnails at the bottom.

The shot that killed Trayvon was fired at a little before 7:17 pm which is also close to the initial arrival times for the first responders for the SPD. Notice where Officer Smith tells us that he parked his squad car and realize it is 176 feet from the car to where the body was found.

On the narrative of 2 different police reports I have underlined in red what I see as the pertinent elements of time in 2 or 3 regards.

-The disarming and cuffing of GZ. Notice on Officer Ayala's report, he notes that Officer Smith is holding GZ at gunpoint. How long do you think was involved in Officer Smith's walking from his car and the disarming, cuffing, and containment of GZ?

-The CPR efforts on TM's body involved the efforts of THREE SPD Officers prior to the arrival of the SFD who attempted to revive him as well and pronounced TM dead at 7:30 pm. If you will notice on Officer Smith's report, he notes his standing there observing all of this activity, and only then took GZ to the rear of his squad car. Sounds like to me that George Zimmerman wasn't placed in the back of that car until AFTER 7:30 pm after being walked approximately 1 minute to where Office Smith has clearly told us his car was parked.

-At this point GZ has had NO noted medical or cleanup attention. According to these reports he couldn't have been placed in that car before 7:31 pm at best.

How did a man who had supposedly been chasing a kid around that development in the rain.....getting his nose broken by the attack of TM.....rolling around on the muddy ground and grass.....bleeding from his head being bashed against the sidewalk.....and pulling a gun and shooting the attacker on top of him in the heart....get medical attention to the point of no visible blood or injury AND get cleaned up to walk into the Sanford Jail clean as a whistle 21 minutes later including a SIXTEEN MINUTE DRIVE?

http://i941.photobucket.com/albums/ad257/Papa813_bucket/TMJail5-2.pnghttp://i941.photobucket.com/albums/ad257/Papa813_bucket/TMJail4.png

It says "cleared by SFD". Wouldn't it say treated and released by SFD if he had injuries??? Cleared sounds as if the EMT looked him over and didn't find anything significant. jmo

Reader
04-03-2012, 08:50 PM
No. Just the prosecutor questions witnesses.

I believe the grand jurors can also ask questions.

Beyond Belief
04-03-2012, 08:50 PM
http://selfdefenseflorida.com/


This series starts off with this in regards to Florida courts and self defense.

It is impossible for any defendant., black or white, man or woman, to get a fair trial in a self-defense case in Florida.

Boytwnmom
04-03-2012, 08:50 PM
ask questions, although generally they want jurors to submit questions to the prosecutor and have them ensure they are appropriate and then the prosecutor will ask the witness. The GJ can also ask to have witnesses called.




No. Just the prosecutor questions witnesses.

Dr.Fessel
04-03-2012, 08:52 PM
I believe the grand jurors can also ask questions.

I think they can even take over the Grand Jury if they don't like what the SA is doing.

Wise Old Owl
04-03-2012, 08:52 PM
Maybe the blood on GZ was actually TM's and was spatter?

Just thinkin' out loud here.



JMHO

Kimberlyd125
04-03-2012, 08:53 PM
So the term "homie" is used among the hispanic culture, hmmmmmm interesting isn't it that Zimmerman Sr. is the FIRST to bring this word up.

Homie has been used by AAs for years.

Anybody remember the show In Living Color?
The character of the clown was named Homie The Clown.

That was back when I was in high school. Been quite a while.

I still hear it today from a vast variety of people.

JMO

TonyGatto
04-03-2012, 08:53 PM
I believe the grand jurors can also ask questions.
Right. My point is there is no "other side" -- hence the term being able to indict a "ham sandwich".

Concerned Papa
04-03-2012, 08:55 PM
It says "cleared by SFD". Wouldn't it say treated and released by SFD if he had injuries??? Cleared sounds as if the EMT looked him over and didn't find anything significant. jmo

LOL, wondered who would be the one to catch that....that's why I didn't mention it. I think you're EXACTLY right.

suzihawk
04-03-2012, 08:56 PM
Don't forget a police car will be able to travel faster than a regular car, can pass lights et cetera...so I would cut the 16 minutes considerably. However your point still stands. Things happened real fast. EMS could not have done more than a cursory check on GZ.

They don't usually go full throttle with sirens blaring while transporting suspects, do they?

Etilema
04-03-2012, 08:57 PM
Maybe the blood on GZ was actually TM's and was spatter?

Just thinkin' out loud here.



JMHO

Here's a question. What does GZ say were his and Trayvon's relative positions at the time the shot was fired? Were they struggling on the ground? Who was on top? If TM was above GZ when he was shot, I would expect blood to have gotten on GZ from that position, though I'm no expert. On the other hand, in at least one version Trayvon is said to have fallen backwards, which would imply to me that he was standing when he was shot.

Why was TM face down on the ground when police arrived? That position doesn't make sense if he "fell backward". However, if they were struggling on the ground when GZ got his gun out, it might make sense. But then I would also expect to see blood on GZ if they were in that close contact when TM was shot.

So many questions. . .

TonyGatto
04-03-2012, 08:58 PM
LOL, wondered who would be the one to catch that....that's why I didn't mention it. I think you're EXACTLY right.

You know if GZ's brother doesn't give that wacky interview, the injuries stuff would be pretty straight forward. He had some minor injuries with a little blood. It was only the bro who started with the head slamming, being beaten to an inch of his life.

LambChop
04-03-2012, 08:59 PM
Don't forget a police car will be able to travel faster than a regular car, can pass lights et cetera...so I would cut the 16 minutes considerably. However your point still stands. Things happened real fast. EMS could not have done more than a cursory check on GZ.

I don't think they can use their lights with a prisoner and I doubt seriously they would go through a red light either and take a chance on an accident. I could see them traveling faster in the outside lane, though....Good lord, they do it now without any problems. lol

gxm
04-03-2012, 08:59 PM
I'm trying to understand exactly how GZ could shoot TM at 7:16 pm, yet arrive at the Sanford jail 36 minutes later at 7:52 pm, looking fresh as a daisy. I've put 3 thumbnails at the bottom.

The shot that killed Trayvon was fired at a little before 7:17 pm which is also close to the initial arrival times for the first responders for the SPD. Notice where Officer Smith tells us that he parked his squad car and realize it is 176 feet from the car to where the body was found.

On the narrative of 2 different police reports I have underlined in red what I see as the pertinent elements of time in 2 or 3 regards.

-The disarming and cuffing of GZ. Notice on Officer Ayala's report, he notes that Officer Smith is holding GZ at gunpoint. How long do you think was involved in Officer Smith's walking from his car and the disarming, cuffing, and containment of GZ?

-The CPR efforts on TM's body involved the efforts of THREE SPD Officers prior to the arrival of the SFD who attempted to revive him as well and pronounced TM dead at 7:30 pm. If you will notice on Officer Smith's report, he notes his standing there observing all of this activity, and only then took GZ to the rear of his squad car. Sounds like to me that George Zimmerman wasn't placed in the back of that car until AFTER 7:30 pm after being walked approximately 1 minute to where Office Smith has clearly told us his car was parked.

-At this point GZ has had NO noted medical or cleanup attention. According to these reports he couldn't have been placed in that car before 7:31 pm at best.

How did a man who had supposedly been chasing a kid around that development in the rain.....getting his nose broken by the attack of TM.....rolling around on the muddy ground and grass.....bleeding from his head being bashed against the sidewalk.....and pulling a gun and shooting the attacker on top of him in the heart....get medical attention to the point of no visible blood or injury AND get cleaned up to walk into the Sanford Jail clean as a whistle 21 minutes later including a SIXTEEN MINUTE DRIVE?

http://i941.photobucket.com/albums/ad257/Papa813_bucket/TMJail5-2.pnghttp://i941.photobucket.com/albums/ad257/Papa813_bucket/TMJail4.png

Keep in mind that a broken nose can show no outwardly visible signs of being broken. Also, as I've stated before, I had my head repeatedly slammed into a hard surface and I had no cuts or outward signs of the beating my head had taken, so I know for a fact that one can have their head repeatedly slammed and not show marks or bleeding. My face was a mess but it had received quite a beating too. Still, the painful lumps on my scalp were not really visible. No one would know they were there except me. And yet during the assault I had been in extreme fear that the contents of my skull were going to end up spilled out across the floor.

Would it take a cop car with its flashing lights on as long as mapquest says? I'm not sure.

JMO, OMO, and :moo:

TonyGatto
04-03-2012, 09:00 PM
They don't usually go full throttle with sirens blaring while transporting suspects, do they?

No, but you know, swing wide, a little woop woop as they go thru an intersection.

Dr.Fessel
04-03-2012, 09:00 PM
Here's a question. What does GZ say were his and Trayvon's relative positions at the time the shot was fired? Were they struggling on the ground? Who was on top? If TM was above GZ when he was shot, I would expect blood to have gotten on GZ from that position, though I'm no expert. On the other hand, in at least one version Trayvon is said to have fallen backwards, which would imply to me that he was standing when he was shot.

Why was TM face down on the ground when police arrived? That position doesn't make sense if he "fell backward". However, if they were struggling on the ground when GZ got his gun out, it might make sense. But then I would also expect to see blood on GZ if they were in that close contact when TM was shot.

So many questions. . .

I really wonder what their positions were when that shot was fired. You sure hear a loud shot and crack.

Bee Happy
04-03-2012, 09:01 PM
I haven't heard homie used regularly in at least 15 years.

Hispanics say "holmes" more, I think.

Horace Finklestein
04-03-2012, 09:02 PM
It says "cleared by SFD". Wouldn't it say treated and released by SFD if he had injuries??? Cleared sounds as if the EMT looked him over and didn't find anything significant. jmo

The injuries were documented in the police report.

LambChop
04-03-2012, 09:02 PM
LOL, wondered who would be the one to catch that....that's why I didn't mention it. I think you're EXACTLY right.

I cheated. My son is an EMT. lol Not here with me but I remember the term. jmo

Reader
04-03-2012, 09:03 PM
The only way it could happen is if the injuries that Zimmerman says he got were really nothing at all.

I still think at least some of that blood on GZ was from his touching Trayvon when he was standing over him, and then putting his hands to his head, acc. to witnesses.

imamaze
04-03-2012, 09:03 PM
Bashing GZ, TM or TM's family is not allowed. Discussing it is not allowed. If you feel a post is against TOS please alert on it so we can check it out. Thank you.

Ima

grammieto5
04-03-2012, 09:04 PM
There are 260+ condo units in the Retreat at Twin Lakes complex. It would be impossible for GZ to know every owner/renter / family / friends etc, imo.

This is why I'm wondering, if Trayvon was looking around, could he have been lost. I'm thinking all these condos look alike.

Etilema
04-03-2012, 09:05 PM
You know if GZ's brother doesn't give that wacky interview, the injuries stuff would be pretty straight forward. He had some minor injuries with a little blood. It was only the bro who started with the head slamming, being beaten to an inch of his life.

I think that may be right. Because there are multiple witnesses who called 911 and reported seeing the two men "wrestling" or struggling on the ground. It would not surprise me to learn that GZ was injured to *some* degree.

LambChop
04-03-2012, 09:05 PM
No, but you know, swing wide, a little woop woop as they go thru an intersection.

I think they have to be careful at those lights....because you know "some" elderly people can't hear those woop woops. And Florida has a lot of those...elders, not woop woops. jmo

Beyond Belief
04-03-2012, 09:06 PM
This is why I'm wondering, if Trayvon was looking around, could he have been lost. I'm thinking all these condos look alike.
Agree 100%.

gxm
04-03-2012, 09:07 PM
Here's a question. What does GZ say were his and Trayvon's relative positions at the time the shot was fired? Were they struggling on the ground? Who was on top? If TM was above GZ when he was shot, I would expect blood to have gotten on GZ from that position, though I'm no expert. On the other hand, in at least one version Trayvon is said to have fallen backwards, which would imply to me that he was standing when he was shot.

Why was TM face down on the ground when police arrived? That position doesn't make sense if he "fell backward". However, if they were struggling on the ground when GZ got his gun out, it might make sense. But then I would also expect to see blood on GZ if they were in that close contact when TM was shot.

So many questions. . .

BBM.

That is the question I am waiting to have answered. I sure hope they factored distance and documented the bullet trajectory but who knows.

LolaMoon08
04-03-2012, 09:07 PM
I think they have to be careful at those lights....because you know "some" elderly people can't hear those woop woops. And Florida has a lot of those...elders, not woop woops. jmo

I was driving down the road once and out of nowhere a cop car came speeding through the light (I had a green light) and he almost got me. He had no lights on and no siren on... he turned his lights on as soon as he almost hit me though. I don't think they're allowed to run those red lights without at least the lights on?

Etilema
04-03-2012, 09:09 PM
I still think at least some of that blood on GZ was from his touching Trayvon when he was standing over him, and then putting his hands to his head, acc. to witnesses.

Wow. That never occurred to me. She said that he put his hands to his head in the gesture she interpreted as, "What have I done", or something like that. Which struck me as odd in context with the rest of her description.

gxm
04-03-2012, 09:09 PM
This is why I'm wondering, if Trayvon was looking around, could he have been lost. I'm thinking all these condos look alike.

I mentioned that early on. It was dark. TM could have been lost or may have become confused and headed the wrong way. That may be why their paths recrossed.

suzihawk
04-03-2012, 09:10 PM
Keep in mind that a broken nose can show no outwardly visible signs of being broken. Also, as I've stated before, I had my head repeatedly slammed into a hard surface and I had no cuts or outward signs of the beating my head had taken, so I know for a fact that one can have their head repeatedly slammed and not show marks or bleeding. My face was a mess but it had received quite a beating too. Still, the painful lumps on my scalp were not really visible. No one would know they were there except me. And yet during the assault I had been in extreme fear that the contents of my skull were going to end up spilled out across the floor.

Would it take a cop car with its flashing lights on as long as mapquest says? I'm not sure.

JMO, OMO, and :moo:

May I ask if you were taken to the hospital after your ordeal?

uvamerica
04-03-2012, 09:10 PM
LOL, wondered who would be the one to catch that....that's why I didn't mention it. I think you're EXACTLY right.


"cleared" is a term LE uses, emts use release.
kind of makes me think LE didn't think his injuries were that serious :waitasec:

csziggy
04-03-2012, 09:11 PM
Links directly to The Retreat at Twin Lakes HOA newsletters:

Sept 2011: http://www.scribd.com/doc/69888406/RTL-Newsletter-September-2011-FINAL

Neighborhood Watch & Crime in the Community
We have recently experienced an increased incidence of crime within the community including three break-ins in the past month,

<modsnip>

Feb 2012: http://www.scribd.com/doc/84398084/RTL-February-2012-Newsletter

vlpate
04-03-2012, 09:11 PM
Since the 15-year-old girlfriend is being called to testify at the Grand Jury, that must mean the phone records matched up and she was telling the truth. I think that can be put to rest now? Right?

ETA: Telling the truth about being on the phone with Trayvon.

I haven't heard anything about the Prosecutor calling the Grand Jury - it would be unusual for her. Please, where is this information coming from?

When someone is called to testify, it does not mean they have been telling the truth, just saying.

Etilema
04-03-2012, 09:12 PM
BBM.

That is the question I am waiting to have answered. I sure hope they factored distance and documented the bullet trajectory but who knows.

Yes. And, obviously, entry versus exit wound. All of that should tell a story. It may not say exactly what happened, but it should be able to corroborate GZ's story or not.

Chris_Texas
04-03-2012, 09:12 PM
ITA
<modsnip>

*Sigh*
I remain disgusted at those whose choose to blame and criticize and trash TM's family. It's abhorrent heartless, ignorant, cruel behavior. IMO.

I personally know I'd give anything and everything I had to give to get my murdered child back. I suspect the Martin family feels the same.

I think a huge helping of COMPASSION is in order.

This case has been astonishing in that respect. Not to be deliberately crude, but this case has been like peeling back a clean white bandage and discovering a gangrenous hate infected wound. It has been shocking to me, and I find myself sickened by the things I am hearing and seeing.

It is my hope, my prayer, that Trayvon's death will serve to tear that bandage away and bring that infection of hate into the light. We have to stop pretending that it isn't real, and attacking the people who want to expose and discuss it. It is PAST time that the good people of this nation say enough, we are not going to tollerate this evil on our streets, we are not going to tolerate it in our families and friends, and we are not going to welcome it into our hearts.

To be blunt, this &*^% has got to stop.

Adrienne37
04-03-2012, 09:12 PM
I still think at least some of that blood on GZ was from his touching Trayvon when he was standing over him, and then putting his hands to his head, acc. to witnesses.

I had thought about that as well. I think it's a very real possibility that's exactly what he did if he had blood on his head.



~jmo~

Concerned Papa
04-03-2012, 09:13 PM
Keep in mind that a broken nose can show no outwardly visible signs of being broken. Also, as I've stated before, I had my head repeatedly slammed into a hard surface and I had no cuts or outward signs of the beating my head had taken, so I know for a fact that one can have their head repeatedly slammed and not show marks or bleeding. My face was a mess but it had received quite a beating too. Still, the painful lumps on my scalp were not really visible. No one would know they were there except me. And yet during the assault I had been in extreme fear that the contents of my skull were going to end up spilled out across the floor.

Would it take a cop car with its flashing lights on as long as mapquest says? I'm not sure.

JMO, OMO, and :moo:

IDK, I'm just stumbling around trying to understand this deal like the rest of you are. Glad you were able to survive the bad experience of your own with a sidewalk.

I've never had that happen to me, but I don't mind telling you in my younger years, I had my nose broken so many times the doctors would send me Christmas cards every year trying to stay on my good side for the business I gave them, LOL.

The last time was several years ago when I was hit between the eyes with a bat at a softball game. I bled like a stuck hog in my truck and before I could even get to the bar for a stiff drink and an ice pack, both eyes were almost swollen shut.

I know every injury is relative and symptoms vary with circumstance, but I've just got a problem buying off on the supposed reason for Mr Zimmerman's claims of justification.

vlpate
04-03-2012, 09:13 PM
May I ask if you were taken to the hospital after your ordeal?

Doctors recommend waiting a couple of days before being seen with a broken nose. The EMT's may have given Zimmerman the same advice.

csziggy
04-03-2012, 09:13 PM
Still, not PREVENTING the beating by shooting him. Only intervening in it. It would probably help if we could look up the actual wording of the statute.

Posted in previous thread:


782.11 Unnecessary killing to prevent unlawful act.—Whoever shall unnecessarily kill another, either while resisting an attempt by such other person to commit any felony, or to do any other unlawful act, or after such attempt shall have failed, shall be deemed guilty of manslaughter, a felony of the second degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082, s. 775.083, or s. 775.084.
History.—s. 13, ch. 1637, 1868; RS 2388; GS 3213; RGS 5043; CGL 7145; s. 719, ch. 71-136.
http://www.leg.state.fl.us/Statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&Search_String=&URL=0700-0799/0782/Sections/0782.11.html

LolaMoon08
04-03-2012, 09:14 PM
I have a good feeling about the FEDS being out there yesterday. We know they talked with neighbors, but I'm hoping they took Zimmerman's original written statement, his audio interview, and the walk-through he did with LE the next day and did a walk-through of their own.

LambChop
04-03-2012, 09:14 PM
The injuries were documented in the police report.

I don't think that was verified. LE saw blood on his face which they assumed was his nose and blood on the back of his head which they thought was a head injury. Could have been GZ's blood but it could also have been TM's. Theie focus was not on GZ's injuries but on TM's who was shot. The EMT would have known once he cleaned the blood away. If the EMT found no injury they wouldn't continue to clean him up, they would just clear him of any injuries. They clean the area where you would have a wound, not his whole head. So we could have been looking at dried blood on that video. I guess we will have to wait and see. It is interesting that they used the word "cleared". jmo

gxm
04-03-2012, 09:15 PM
I *really* do not think that the unlawful act (felony) that is being referenced in that offense (per statute posted above) was supposed to be the alleged beating/attempted killing of GZ. I really think that would be a matter of self-defense, not a matter of killing someone to prevent a felony. Where are our lawyers??

That's what I'm thinking. But once GZ gave his statement and claimed self-defense (or SYG), the report was changed to reflect that. (Pure speculation.)

JMO, OMO, and :moo:

TonyGatto
04-03-2012, 09:19 PM
This is why I'm wondering, if Trayvon was looking around, could he have been lost. I'm thinking all these condos look alike.

Happens to me all the time when I'm on vacation...trying to find the villa.

Adrienne37
04-03-2012, 09:20 PM
Doctors recommend waiting a couple of days before being seen with a broken nose. The EMT's may have given Zimmerman the same advice.

Not sure which doctor you have seen regarding a broken nose but I've been a medical transcriptionist for 30+ years and I can tell you that we see hundreds of cases of broken noses that were sustained the very same day in the ERs that I work for. A doctor may advise you to see an otolaryngologist in a couple of days but no ER physician that I've had the pleasure of working with would tell a patient to wait a couple of days to come in.



~jmo~

gxm
04-03-2012, 09:20 PM
I don't think that was verified. LE saw blood on his face which they assumed was his nose and blood on the back of his head which they thought was a head injury. Could have been GZ's blood but it could also have been TM's. Theie focus was not on GZ's injuries but on TM's who was shot. The EMT would have known once he cleaned the blood away. If the EMT found no injury they wouldn't continue to clean him up, they would just clear him of any injuries. They clean the area where you would have a wound, not his whole head. So we could have been looking at dried blood on that video. I guess we will have to wait and see. It is interesting that they used the word "cleared". jmo

IMO, it had to be before GZ's statement that his head had been slammed into the sidewalk (if he even stated such, we don't know for sure) because it would seem to me that knowing there had been trauma to his head they would take him to the ER just to be safe.

JMO, OMO, and :moo:

LolaMoon08
04-03-2012, 09:20 PM
I haven't heard anything about the Prosecutor calling the Grand Jury - it would be unusual for her. Please, where is this information coming from?

When someone is called to testify, it does not mean they have been telling the truth, just saying.

http://www.radaronline.com/exclusives/2012/04/trayvon-martin-girlfriend-interviewed-prosecutors

Here's the link from the post I quoted. I said that she must have been telling the truth about being on the phone with Trayvon because they would NOT call her to testify if the phone records didn't match up.

MOO

Dr.Fessel
04-03-2012, 09:20 PM
The Florida State Attorney's Office has issued a subpoena for Trayvon's girlfriend to appear in front of the grand jury when it's impaneled on April 10.

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - FL 17 yo Trayvon Martin Shot to Death by Neighborhood Watch Captain #16

frenchvixen
04-03-2012, 09:21 PM
Right. My point is there is no "other side" -- hence the term being able to indict a "ham sandwich".

Good evening, TG. I was just about to say that. Once you hear a grand jury has been convened you can bet that you're going down. It's very one-sided.

I have a feeling in my heart that the feds will step in mainly because of the Florida statute (SYG). If the feds step in and feel that GZ violated TM's civil rights then that FL statute goes out the door. I feel that if it is found that GZ uttered the words "F**** Coon" then it's over for him and he will be chaged federally (those are not the only determinants but that will definately put a nail in his coffin).

Remember the Abner Louima case where the cop shoved the plunger in the AA man's bum. That was found to be a violation of his civil rights b/c he attacked him and arrested him based on his race. This cop had a black girlfriend mind you. So, the fact that GZ has black friends or is even a mixed person does not mean a thing.

LolaMoon08
04-03-2012, 09:21 PM
Happens to me all the time when I'm on vacation...trying to find the villa.

I've walked into other people's homes before. So embarrassing!

LambChop
04-03-2012, 09:21 PM
Happens to me all the time when I'm on vacation...trying to find the villa.

Is that the one behind George Clooney's?

uvamerica
04-03-2012, 09:22 PM
Doctors recommend waiting a couple of days before being seen with a broken nose. The EMT's may have given Zimmerman the same advice.

Really ? wait for what ? if your nose is broken, it will show up in an xray immediately. I've never heard of such a thing, do you have a link ?

gxm
04-03-2012, 09:25 PM
May I ask if you were taken to the hospital after your ordeal?

Absolutely not. I was told I'd be killed if I went to the authorities.

Emeralgem
04-03-2012, 09:25 PM
The Florida State Attorney's Office has issued a subpoena for Trayvon's girlfriend to appear in front of the grand jury when it's impaneled on April 10.

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - FL 17 yo Trayvon Martin Shot to Death by Neighborhood Watch Captain #16 (http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=7753766&postcount=31)

So does this mean the SA who was appointed to review the case has NOW decided to let the case go to a Grand Jury? Last I heard I thougt she had stated a Grand Jury might not be necessary..JMHO

LolaMoon08
04-03-2012, 09:26 PM
Absolutely not. I was told I'd be killed if I went to the authorities.

Oh my! So sorry! :cry:

LambChop
04-03-2012, 09:27 PM
Not sure which doctor you have seen regarding a broken nose but I've been a medical transcriptionist for 30+ years and I can tell you that we see hundreds of cases of broken noses that were sustained the very same day in the ERs that I work for. A doctor may advise you to see an otolaryngologist in a couple of days but no ER physician that I've had the pleasure of working with would tell a patient to wait a couple of days to come in.



~jmo~

That is what I thought. I'd be getting myself another doctor. jmo

TonyGatto
04-03-2012, 09:27 PM
Is that the one behind George Clooney's?

They call them villas....but you know...it's a townhouse. I don't think Clooney and I have the same timeshare.

frenchvixen
04-03-2012, 09:28 PM
When I listen to the tape it's as if Zimmerman is a narrator setting the scene.

...break-ins in neighborhood

...looks like he's up to no good

...or he's on drugs or something

...he looks black

...he was just staring

...he's got his hand in his waistband. And he's a black male.

Last week I was thinking to myself if only GZ had approached TM respectfully and said, "hi, I'm the neighborhood watchman do you live here". Then this would not have happened. Then I realized there is no way he would have approached him that way b/c based on his mindset and his narration to the police TM was the bad guy. It is unconceivable to me how he came to this conclusion. I myself when I first heard GZ's 911 call I thought that TM was indeed the bad guy b/c I started to wonder, "why is he running". Then I read the other half of the story of TM telling his g/f that someone was following him and I realized that he was running b/c he was afraid.

leanaí
04-03-2012, 09:28 PM
Keep in mind that a broken nose can show no outwardly visible signs of being broken. Also, as I've stated before, I had my head repeatedly slammed into a hard surface and I had no cuts or outward signs of the beating my head had taken, so I know for a fact that one can have their head repeatedly slammed and not show marks or bleeding. My face was a mess but it had received quite a beating too. Still, the painful lumps on my scalp were not really visible. No one would know they were there except me. And yet during the assault I had been in extreme fear that the contents of my skull were going to end up spilled out across the floor.

Would it take a cop car with its flashing lights on as long as mapquest says? I'm not sure.

JMO, OMO, and :moo:

If you can't see it then you must not really be hurt. This is how allot of people think and they don't understand unless it has happened to them.

TonyGatto
04-03-2012, 09:28 PM
So does this mean the SA who was appointed to review the case has NOW decided to let the case go to a Grand Jury? Last I heard I thougt she had stated a Grand Jury might not be necessary..JMHO

GJ has been set for April 10. At any point she can say -- don't need the grand jury here are the charges. We have to wait and see.

LolaMoon08
04-03-2012, 09:29 PM
I feel like going through all the threads, one by one, and collecting all the links and just post them all at once.

I do have a question? When we quote a person's post that has the link in it... do we also have to post the link in our post even though the link will show in the post we quoted?

Thanks.

Dr.Fessel
04-03-2012, 09:30 PM
I've walked into other people's homes before. So embarrassing! My grandpa got in the wrong car at the store and put his key in it and it worked and was driving away when the owner flagged him down. LOL LOL

TonyGatto
04-03-2012, 09:30 PM
Last week I was thinking to myself if only GZ had approached TM respectfully and said, "hi, I'm the neighborhood watchman do you live here". Then this would not have happened. Then I realized there is no way he would have approached him that way b/c based on his mindset and his narration to the police TM was the bad guy. It is unconceivable to me how he came to this conclusion. I myself when I first heard GZ's 911 call I thought that TM was indeed the bad guy b/c I started to wonder, "why is he running". Then I read the other half of the story of TM telling his g/f that someone was following him and I realized that he was running b/c he was afraid.

Which makes me wonder why he hasn't been able to reach that dream of being a cop. I would think he has tried out -- but why hasn't he made the team? While he had a lot of attributes of a good cop -- he didn't have the other side. Responsibility.

Badlands
04-03-2012, 09:31 PM
Doctors recommend waiting a couple of days before being seen with a broken nose. The EMT's may have given Zimmerman the same advice.

Any doctor that recommends waiting a couple days to be seen for a broken nose should have their license revoked.

Dr.Fessel
04-03-2012, 09:31 PM
I feel like going through all the threads, one by one, and collecting all the links and just post them all at once.

I do have a question? When we quote a person's post that has the link in it... do we also have to post the link in our post even though the link will show in the post we quoted?

Thanks.

I don't.

Sensei
04-03-2012, 09:32 PM
Really ? wait for what ? if your nose is broken, it will show up in an xray immediately. I've never heard of such a thing, do you have a link ?

In my experience, they want to try and set and fix a broken nose asap, they do not want to have to rebreak it to make sure that you are going to have nasal passages that you can actually breathe out of, and a relatively straight nose, and of the two the nasal passages that you can breathe out of is the priority.

I have to say, although I have not personally seen it, it is possible to sustain a broken nose without it bleeding, it is actually in the literature.

It is also possible to have a contusion to the head such as is seen in the video, and it not bleed....but I am not sure what the liklihood would be of having both on the same night, and then add in shooting someone who is
on top of or looming over you, and shooting them at very close range directly in the middle of their chest and yet not having so much as a single spot of blood big enough to be visible on the video....well, I am not a statistician, but I think the incidence of all three occurrances in one incident would be exceedingly LOW, IMO JMHO and stuff.

TonyGatto
04-03-2012, 09:33 PM
I feel like going through all the threads, one by one, and collecting all the links and just post them all at once.

I do have a question? When we quote a person's post that has the link in it... do we also have to post the link in our post even though the link will show in the post we quoted?

Thanks.

No. And since I do a lot of research and post a lot of links...I don't repost the link when I make reference to it in a later post -- unless I'm asked. I think mods will agree --common sense prevails.

Yoda
04-03-2012, 09:34 PM
That is what I thought. I'd be getting myself another doctor. jmo
That is so strange. Not arguing, but the two people I know who have broken their noses both had doctors who told them to come back in a couple days when the swelling went down. Tbh I don't know why. I just remember them saying that. I know one ended up having to have surgery the break was so bad.

mercuriod
04-03-2012, 09:36 PM
I haven't heard anything about the Prosecutor calling the Grand Jury - it would be unusual for her. Please, where is this information coming from?

When someone is called to testify, it does not mean they have been telling the truth, just saying.

So you think a 15 year old girl is going to go in front of a Grand Jury and lie? Testifying before a Grand Jury would be very intimidating even for and adult, do you really think a 15 year old girl is going to be able to lie under that type of pressure and nerves?

LambChop
04-03-2012, 09:37 PM
If you can't see it then you must not really be hurt. This is how allot of people think and they don't understand unless it has happened to them.

I do think an EMT could see it and could tell whether or not he was hurt. Ten minutes is not a lot of time to spend on those types of injuries but it is enough time to clean off GZ's nose and the back of his head then check to see how badly he is injured. jmo

suzihawk
04-03-2012, 09:37 PM
Doctors recommend waiting a couple of days before being seen with a broken nose. The EMT's may have given Zimmerman the same advice.

Could be.

The poster I was asking has had their head slammed repeatedly on a hard surface with little visible evidence of the injury very similar to what GZ claims happened to him . I was just interested if the poster was transported to the hospital after the incident or if they were treated on the scene of the incident.

Concerned Papa
04-03-2012, 09:39 PM
Any doctor that recommends waiting a couple days to be seen for a broken nose should have their license revoked.

I'll step in on this as an expert, LOL. I didn't give my doctor's much choice. Either fix it or give me enough drugs that I didn't care.

Funny how they tended to do both....

Yoda
04-03-2012, 09:39 PM
Now I want to know after reading all these posts, what are you supposed to do if your nose is broken?

LolaMoon08
04-03-2012, 09:40 PM
So you think a 15 year old girl is going to go in front of a Grand Jury and lie? Testifying before a Grand Jury would be very intimidating even for and adult, do you really think a 15 year old girl is going to be able to lie under that type of pressure and nerves?

I don't think the State would call her to testify if they thought she was not being truthful. I believe her phone records match her story.

I just feel awful that a 15-year-old has to go through something like this. I hope she has a strong support system. My heart aches for her.

MOO

LambChop
04-03-2012, 09:40 PM
That is so strange. Not arguing, but the two people I know who have broken their noses both had doctors who told them to come back in a couple days when the swelling went down. Tbh I don't know why. I just remember them saying that. I know one ended up having to have surgery the break was so bad.

But they were seen by the doctor and cleared, right. We do not see swelling on GZ's nose at all and since GZ did not go for x-rays we really don't know other than it appears he was treated for a very short time as if any injury he had was minor. Plus with head injuries I believe EMT's usually let an ER doctor decide. Sometimes people going into shock will say no only to drop over later. Depends on how bad the EMT thought the injury was. Looks like it was nothing major. jmo

mercuriod
04-03-2012, 09:41 PM
Doctors recommend waiting a couple of days before being seen with a broken nose. The EMT's may have given Zimmerman the same advice.

What Doctors have you been going to for broken noses? I had to have nasal septum repair surgery because I waited 3 days to be seen after I broke my nose, the surgeon told me if I had been seen immediately they would have been able to set it and I would not have had to have surgery.

animlzrule
04-03-2012, 09:43 PM
It depends on what kind of fracture has been sustained. For an obviously mangled nose, difficulty breathing or profuse bleeding, it is advisable for an individual to be evaluated on an emergent basis. However, for a closed fracture, one in which cartilage and bones have been displaced, one has a window of a couple of weeks before intervention needs to take place. It is advisable for some people to wait at least a few days before going in to the doctor, and certainly they are able to avoid a more costly ER visit, if the main symptoms at the time of the injury are pain, swelling and bleeding which stops after 10-20 minutes application of firm, steady pressure. I advise several people every few months to wait to come in for a few days in order for the swelling to go down. That way the doc can get in there and really see what's going on. X rays aren't usually necessary for fractures. If you wait longer than 2 weeks and it turns out there is a fracture, then repairs typically have to be performed surgically. Not all nose fractures are emergencies.


ETA: Most people do assume broken noses are emergencies, and of course if they present to an ER, they should be evaluated and either treated or advised to follow up with their primary care physician within a few days.

lisalei321
04-03-2012, 09:44 PM
Now I want to know after reading all these posts, what are you supposed to do if your nose is broken?

Mine was broken in a softball game...I was taken to the ER very, very quickly!

Sent from LG Esteem using Tapatalk

LolaMoon08
04-03-2012, 09:44 PM
I am so glad I have never had a broken nose. They sound awful! I have had a sinus infection so bad that I wanted to yank out my entire sinus cavity with a crow bar? Is a broken nose worse than that?

Sensei
04-03-2012, 09:44 PM
Could be.

The poster I was asking has had their head slammed repeatedly on a hard surface with little visible evidence of the injury very similar to what GZ claims happened to him . I was just interested if the poster was transported to the hospital after the incident or if they were treated on the scene of the incident.

Were the contusions and lumps and maybe the redness not visible because she had hair? Perhaps if his/her head was shaved the injury would have been much more apparent.

But the "If you can't see it, you must not really be hurt is entirely moot if we are to now believe the new and enhanced video....since we can see "something" on the video, even if we don't know what it is or was, so it must have been visible that night.

gxm
04-03-2012, 09:44 PM
Now I want to know after reading all these posts, what are you supposed to do if your nose is broken?

IANAD (or nurse) but I would say definitely go to your doctor or the emergency room. Better safe than sorry.

Yoda
04-03-2012, 09:46 PM
It depends on what kind of fracture has been sustained. For an obviously mangled nose, difficulty breathing or profuse bleeding, it is advisable for an individual to be evaluated on an emergent basis. However, for a closed fracture, one in which cartilage and bones have been displaced, one has a window of a couple of weeks before intervention needs to take place. It is advisable for some people to wait at least a few days before going in to the doctor, and certainly they are able to avoid a more costly ER visit, if the main symptoms at the time of the injury are pain, swelling and bleeding which stops after 10-20 minutes application of firm, steady pressure. I advise several people every few months to wait to come in for a few days in order for the swelling to go down. That way the doc can get in there and really see what's going on. X rays aren't usually necessary for fractures. If you wait longer than 2 weeks and it turns out there is a fracture, then repairs typically have to be performed surgically. Not all nose fractures are emergencies.

Animalzrule, are you talking about human noses or animal noses? Jk ;)

Thanks for the info.

LambChop
04-03-2012, 09:46 PM
Now I want to know after reading all these posts, what are you supposed to do if your nose is broken?

Be safe. Call your doctor and let him decide what to do. lol

flourish
04-03-2012, 09:47 PM
I feel like going through all the threads, one by one, and collecting all the links and just post them all at once.

I do have a question? When we quote a person's post that has the link in it... do we also have to post the link in our post even though the link will show in the post we quoted?

Thanks.


I usually put something like "from above link" then put the link at the end of my post. That way when someone quotes me, they can still easily access the link. hth:)

Adrienne37
04-03-2012, 09:47 PM
That is so strange. Not arguing, but the two people I know who have broken their noses both had doctors who told them to come back in a couple days when the swelling went down. Tbh I don't know why. I just remember them saying that. I know one ended up having to have surgery the break was so bad.

You said a doctor told them to come back in a couple of days right? If yes, then what the doctor told them was correct based on his/her assessment of that patient. The original post to which I replied stated that doctors recommended waiting a couple of days before going in.

~jmo~

vlpate
04-03-2012, 09:48 PM
Any doctor that recommends waiting a couple days to be seen for a broken nose should have their license revoked.
Why would that be?

LambChop
04-03-2012, 09:50 PM
Mine was broken in a softball game...I was taken to the ER very, very quickly!

Sent from LG Esteem using Tapatalk

Ouch!!!!

gxm
04-03-2012, 09:50 PM
Were the contusions and lumps and maybe the redness not visible because she had hair? Perhaps if his/her head was shaved the injury would have been much more apparent.

But the "If you can't see it, you must not really be hurt is entirely moot if we are to now believe the new and enhanced video....since we can see "something" on the video, even if we don't know what it is or was, so it must have been visible that night.

Yes. I have a lot more hair than GZ. I don't know whether they would have been more visible if I had shorter hair. I just know that no one noticed them. The face was another thing entirely. Which is why I've asked if GZ had been seen in public after he was released. I would be interested to know if his face showed any signs of swelling or bruising the next day. I know my bruises seemed to last forever, a least several weeks and went through every color of the rainbow.

mfcmom
04-03-2012, 09:51 PM
Could be.

The poster I was asking has had their head slammed repeatedly on a hard surface with little visible evidence of the injury very similar to what GZ claims happened to him . I was just interested if the poster was transported to the hospital after the incident or if they were treated on the scene of the incident. My adopted daughter had her head slammed into a wall by her bmom, she had no initial exterior signs, was found unconscious had mutliple cerebral bleeds and infarcts (strokes) wound up in a coma for 17 days and had multiple brain surgeries after that. She is now 13 and wheelchair bound and has a feeding tube, seizures, etc. Traumatic brain injury can have very different effects, look at some of the soldiers, emotional issues, etc. I just can't swallow his head was "slammed" into anything, the grass but his immediate actions after and on the video he looked so relaxed, leaned back casually against the wall. The is just my impression and means absolutely nothing I suppose.

mercuriod
04-03-2012, 09:51 PM
i am so glad i have never had a broken nose. They sound awful! I have had a sinus infection so bad that i wanted to yank out my entire sinus cavity with a crow bar? Is a broken nose worse than that?

yes!!!!

LambChop
04-03-2012, 09:52 PM
Why would that be?

Could be because they have to see you to make a diagnosis. jmo

vlpate
04-03-2012, 09:52 PM
You said a doctor told them to come back in a couple of days right? If yes, then what the doctor told them was correct based on his/her assessment of that patient. The original post to which I replied stated that doctors recommended waiting a couple of days before going in.

~jmo~

Unless the nose is grossly disfigured, the doctor will tell his patient to wait a couple of days before coming in, or until the swelling goes down enough to take effective tests.

Additionally, Zimmerman was seen by an EMT who would have told him the same thing.

I have four brothers who played sports, just FYI.

Sensei
04-03-2012, 09:53 PM
Yes. I have a lot more hair than GZ. I don't know whether they would have been more visible if I had shorter hair. I just know that no one noticed them. The face was another thing entirely. Which is why I've asked if GZ had been seen in public after he was released. I would be interested to know if his face showed any signs of swelling or bruising the next day. I know my bruises seemed to last forever, a least several weeks and went through every color of the rainbow.

to the best that I know of, no one has laid eyes on George Zimmerman since he was released from the PD that night, at least no one who has come forward to tell about it.

m00c0w
04-03-2012, 09:55 PM
My adopted daughter had her head slammed into a wall by her bmom, she had no initial exterior signs, was found unconscious had mutliple cerebral bleeds and infarcts (strokes) wound up in a coma for 17 days and had multiple brain surgeries after that. She is now 13 and wheelchair bound and has a feeding tube, seizures, etc. Traumatic brain injury can have very different effects, look at some of the soldiers, emotional issues, etc. I just can't swallow his head was "slammed" into anything, the grass but his immediate actions after and on the video he looked so relaxed, leaned back casually against the wall. The is just my impression and means absolutely nothing I suppose.
Children are much more susceptible to traumatic brain injuries that result in disability or death. While I am terribly sorry that happened to your daughter, respectfully, I don't feel that's quite the same.

LolaMoon08
04-03-2012, 09:58 PM
I just had the craziest thought and since I have to get to work soon, I really wanted to share it with all of you.

Next time I'm at Cracker Barrel and my waitress asks me if I want "Links" I'm might seriously lose it? The word "links" will never, ever be the same for me. I don't think I'll ever be able to think about sausage when I hear that word? I might just hand the waitress my phone with a link to sausage? :floorlaugh:

I've had dreams about links. :floorlaugh:

Beyond Belief
04-03-2012, 10:02 PM
Do we have an ideas who else besides the GF will be called by the GJ?

LambChop
04-03-2012, 10:03 PM
Children are much more susceptible to traumatic brain injuries that result in disability or death. While I am terribly sorry that happened to your daughter, respectfully, I don't feel that's quite the same.

I think the point is anyone who is claiming their head was bashed against cement numerous times should have been taken to the ER...unless he didn't tell the EMT that. This was someone with SFD who had nothing to lose by taking him to the hospital for a doctor to check him out even if he couldn't see any damage. That is what bothers me. Ten minutes at the most to look at GZ and off he goes to the SPD. Sounds like GZ was just cleaned up and off he went. jmo

suzihawk
04-03-2012, 10:03 PM
Absolutely not. I was told I'd be killed if I went to the authorities.

I'm so sorry you had to go through that and thanks for answering such a personal question.


As you said in another post, I'm sure they would have insisted on taking GZ to the ER just to be safe based on his statement of having his head repeatedly slammed on the pavement.

mfcmom
04-03-2012, 10:03 PM
Children are much more susceptible to traumatic brain injuries that result in disability or death. While I am terribly sorry that happened to your daughter, respectfully, I don't feel that's quite the same.
I agree, I think my point is ultimately, if the injuries claimed by Mr. Zimmerman were true, and EMT worth his grain in salt would have transported for a CT and or MRI. When he got up, he was walking around and very casual at the PD. As a former police dispatcher, that is routine. Thanks for your repsonse though.

Tulessa
04-03-2012, 10:04 PM
I just had the craziest thought and since I have to get to work soon, I really wanted to share it with all of you.

Next time I'm at Cracker Barrel and my waitress asks me if I want "Links" I'm might seriously lose it? The word "links" will never, ever be the same for me. I don't think I'll ever be able to think about sausage when I hear that word? I might just hand the waitress my phone with a link to sausage? :floorlaugh:

I've had dreams about links. :floorlaugh:

Please pick me up some of their Berry candy! Yum!!

Sensei
04-03-2012, 10:04 PM
Children are much more susceptible to traumatic brain injuries that result in disability or death. While I am terribly sorry that happened to your daughter, respectfully, I don't feel that's quite the same.

I respectfully disagree in the strongest possible terms. That is one of the things that makes this entire "head hit on the concrete" so very impossible to believe. Even what many people consider a minor trauma, to an adult or to a child can result in some very serious complications and there does not have to show ANY visible damage to head or neck. The person can be just fine, and no one will know that they are bleeding into the brain, or between the dura mater and the brain until they suddenly have altered consciousness and at that point it is life threatening and they may in fact lose substatial areas of brain function forever...That is why even minor sports related bumps on the head, and traffic accidents get sent in for testing around here.'

I am not making any of this up, I promise, so here is a link

When an injury occurs, loss of brain function can occur even without visible damage to the head. Force applied to the head may cause the brain to be directly injured or shaken, bouncing against the inner wall of the skull. The trauma can potentially cause bleeding in the spaces surrounding the brain, bruise the brain tissue, or damage the nerve connections within the brain.http://www.emedicinehealth.com/head_injury/article_em.htm

LolaMoon08
04-03-2012, 10:05 PM
Please pick me up some of their Berry candy! Yum!!

Bit-O-Honey is my weakness!

Alright everyone... have to get some work done. Deadline looming! Have a great night.

Justice for Trayvon.

vlpate
04-03-2012, 10:06 PM
So you think a 15 year old girl is going to go in front of a Grand Jury and lie? Testifying before a Grand Jury would be very intimidating even for and adult, do you really think a 15 year old girl is going to be able to lie under that type of pressure and nerves?

Did I say that???

Tulessa
04-03-2012, 10:06 PM
My adopted daughter had her head slammed into a wall by her bmom, she had no initial exterior signs, was found unconscious had mutliple cerebral bleeds and infarcts (strokes) wound up in a coma for 17 days and had multiple brain surgeries after that. She is now 13 and wheelchair bound and has a feeding tube, seizures, etc. Traumatic brain injury can have very different effects, look at some of the soldiers, emotional issues, etc. I just can't swallow his head was "slammed" into anything, the grass but his immediate actions after and on the video he looked so relaxed, leaned back casually against the wall. The is just my impression and means absolutely nothing I suppose.

God bless you sweetheart. Give her a special hug from me. :)

Tulessa
04-03-2012, 10:08 PM
Bit-O-Honey is my weakness!

Alright everyone... have to get some work done. Deadline looming! Have a great night.

Justice for Trayvon.

No No No Cracker barrel Berry!! BOT sorry! :D

m00c0w
04-03-2012, 10:08 PM
I respectfully disagree in the strongest possible terms. That is one of the things that makes this entire "head hit on the concrete" so very impossible to believe. Even what many people consider a minor trauma, to an adult or to a child can result in some very serious complications and there does not have to show ANY visible damage to head or neck. The person can be just fine, and no one will know that they are bleeding into the brain, or between the dura mater and the brain until they suddenly have altered consciousness and at that point it is life threatening and they may in fact lose substatial areas of brain function forever...That is why even minor sports related bumps on the head, and traffic accidents get sent in for testing around here.'

I am not making any of this up, I promise, so here is a link

When an injury occurs, loss of brain function can occur even without visible damage to the head. Force applied to the head may cause the brain to be directly injured or shaken, bouncing against the inner wall of the skull. The trauma can potentially cause bleeding in the spaces surrounding the brain, bruise the brain tissue, or damage the nerve connections within the brain.http://www.emedicinehealth.com/head_injury/article_em.htm

TBI by Age
Children aged 0 to 4 years, older adolescents aged 15 to 19 years, and adults aged 65 years and older are most likely to sustain a TBI.
Almost half a million (473,947) emergency department visits for TBI are made annually by children aged 0 to 14 years.
Adults aged 75 years and older have the highest rates of TBI-related hospitalization and death.
http://www.cdc.gov/traumaticbraininjury/statistics.html#A

What I said is factually correct. Thank you. :)

vlpate
04-03-2012, 10:10 PM
I think the point is anyone who is claiming their head was bashed against cement numerous times should have been taken to the ER...unless he didn't tell the EMT that. This was someone with SFD who had nothing to lose by taking him to the hospital for a doctor to check him out even if he couldn't see any damage. That is what bothers me. Ten minutes at the most to look at GZ and off he goes to the SPD. Sounds like GZ was just cleaned up and off he went. jmo

From what I understand, and it makes sense, Trayvon was not holding George by his ears, picking up and slamming George's head onto the cement. His head hit the cement when Trayvon decked him, and any hit to George's head Trayvon got in after that, smacked GZ's head to the cement. Makes sense to me.

mfcmom
04-03-2012, 10:10 PM
The other reason I believe he would have been transported was because he was allegedly "detained" but not arrested, and I don't think they would have exposed themselves to a lawsuit. It would have been protocol to cover their behinds.

LambChop
04-03-2012, 10:11 PM
I respectfully disagree in the strongest possible terms. That is one of the things that makes this entire "head hit on the concrete" so very impossible to believe. Even what many people consider a minor trauma, to an adult or to a child can result in some very serious complications and there does not have to show ANY visible damage to head or neck. The person can be just fine, and no one will know that they are bleeding into the brain, or between the dura mater and the brain until they suddenly have altered consciousness and at that point it is life threatening and they may in fact lose substatial areas of brain function forever...That is why even minor sports related bumps on the head, and traffic accidents get sent in for testing around here.'

I am not making any of this up, I promise, so here is a link

When an injury occurs, loss of brain function can occur even without visible damage to the head. Force applied to the head may cause the brain to be directly injured or shaken, bouncing against the inner wall of the skull. The trauma can potentially cause bleeding in the spaces surrounding the brain, bruise the brain tissue, or damage the nerve connections within the brain.http://www.emedicinehealth.com/head_injury/article_em.htm

That is why I don't think he told the EMT about his head being bashed. He may have had to "create" a reason after being spoon fed the information that he had to be in fear of his life. It would be interesting to hear from the EMT. jmo

Reader
04-03-2012, 10:11 PM
Any doctor that recommends waiting a couple days to be seen for a broken nose should have their license revoked.

Has there been any information about GZ seeking medical treatment since the incident happened?

frenchvixen
04-03-2012, 10:12 PM
BBM.

That is the question I am waiting to have answered. I sure hope they factored distance and documented the bullet trajectory but who knows.

Two witnesses (eyewitnesses) reported that TM and GZ were wrestling in the grass in between two townhomes. I believe them when they say tht b/c they didn't know each other and they both stated the same thing. One is a 13 y o boy. The other is a grown man who said he was steps away from the fight when GZ screamed out to him "help" and he said, "stop please. I'm calling for help". By the time he got to his window to continue monitoring the fight TM had been shot.

What I don't understand is how did TM ended up facedown in the grass. Both accounts stated that TM was on top and GZ on the bottom. The older eyewitness stated that GZ was yellng for help. Why did the experts say that it was TM yelling for help. Why did the screams stop after the shot. I imagine it should have been even more screaming after you've shot someone b/c now you go into rescue mode and out of defensive mode.

Also, if TM was screaming "help, help". Why was he screaming? If you are fighting with someone as both accounts stated why would you be screaming help? I mean people fight all the time and unless your life is in danger and you know it why would you scream such a desperate "help". Sometimes I think that GZ was waving the gun at TM and TM knew that he was going to be shot and he started screaming but the accounts do not support this.

m00c0w
04-03-2012, 10:13 PM
Two witnesses (eyewitnesses) reported that TM and GZ were wrestling in the grass in between two townhomes. I believe them when they say tht b/c they didn't know each other and they both stated the same thing. One is a 13 y o boy. The other is a grown man who said he was steps away from the fight when GZ screamed out to him "help" and he said, "stop please. I'm calling for help". By the time he got to his window to continue monitoring the fight TM had been shot.

What I don't understand is how did TM ended up facedown in the grass. Both accounts stated that TM was on top and GZ on the bottom. The older eyewitness stated that GZ was yellng for help. Why did the experts say that it was TM yelling for help. Why did the screams stop after the shot. I imagine it should have been even more screaming after you've shot someone b/c now you go into rescue mode and out of defensive mode.

Also, if TM was screaming "help, help". Why was he screaming? If you are fighting with someone as both accounts stated why would you be screaming help? I mean people fight all the time and unless your life is in danger and you know it why would you scream such a desperate "help". Sometimes I think that GZ was waving the gun at TM and TM knew that he was going to be shot and he started screaming but the accounts do not support this.
BBM

They didn't.