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deelytful1
04-05-2012, 10:10 PM
BBM Really???? Hmm I live in Florida and I never dress as if I were on a polar expedition, why it even went down into the 40's last year and I didn't even wear gloves. 60 degress is not considered cold here, cool yes, but cold, get real. jmo, imo (and personal experience) and all that jazz

PLUS GZ was wearing a jacket! How cold could he have been???

uvamerica
04-05-2012, 10:10 PM
Thanks UVamerica and highflyer for posting those links. I thought I remembered reading that Zimmerman Sr. had discussed that letter last night on Hannity.




~jmo~


Your Welcome ! :seeya:

mercuriod
04-05-2012, 10:11 PM
was TM wailing for his life while held at gunpoint I think GZ's story implodes. IMO, that person wailing was not the assailant and was not engaged in any threat to GZ and there was plenty of time for GZ to DECIDE what to do, whether to shoot and kill him or de-escalate the encounter-for whatever reason he decided to shoot.

IMO, TM pissed GZ off. I think GZ grabbed TM, maybe by his arm to ensure he couldn't get away-I think TM may have flailed his other arm, maybe landed a punch...maybe, but not a very good one, just enough to REALLY tick GZ off and he then, if he hadn't already, pulled his gun and pointed it at TM from a very close position and let it sink in to TM that he was going to die and then he pulled the trigger. Or maybe the whole thing was done with the gun drawn and TM trying to get away while GZ hung onto him.

I don't think anyone of the witnesses can really accurately describe what happened-I think the best bet is forensics and the precise timeline that will be established. I just hope it's enough. The description of GZ after the shooting was not of an agitated and distraught individual who was engaged in a battle which makes sense in this context. There was no big fight. The more I think about it the more I feel it was like an execution with GZ feeling justified because TM was one of those a%$holes that had previously gotten away so he wasn't doing anything wrong in eliminating this threat. If GZ had ever just thought or considered that maybe TM was just a regular teenager nothing would have happened. But to GZ, TM was just a type, a prototype thug out of central casting running amok around his pristine kingdom and GZ was going to set things right this time.

WOW, that say so accurately what I think happened! :tyou:

LambChop
04-05-2012, 10:13 PM
BBM Really???? Hmm I live in Florida and I never dress as if I were on a polar expedition, why it even went down into the 40's last year and I didn't even wear gloves. 60 degress is not considered cold here, cool yes, but cold, get real. jmo, imo (and personal experience) and all that jazz

Plus in the summer it's not uncommon in most homes to find the temps down in the 60's with the air on. jmo

csziggy
04-05-2012, 10:15 PM
Didn't the dispatcher ask GZ if he was following TM? Dispatch didn't ask if he was on foot, did he?????? So maybe GZ was following him with the car and the reason he eventually got out of the car may be because he could not find TM and decided to track him where he lost him, then found him behind he buildings. jmo

On my timeline, right after GZ says, "These a$$holes they always get away." there is a sound which I am pretty sure are windshield wipers, but I don't think GZ got out at that point. There there is this sequence:
02:06:65 Sh** he's running.
Dispatcher: He's running? Which way is he running?
02:09:47 (Car door alarm?)
Zimmerman: Down towards the other entrance to the neighborhood. (car door slam)
02:14:18
Dispatcher: Which entrance is that that he's heading towards?
Zimmerman: The back entrance…****ing (unintelligible)
02:22:36
19:11:59 subj now running towards back entrance of complex
Dispatcher: Are you following him?
Zimmerman: Yeah (wind noises)
02:25:20
19:12:00 Trayvon receives call from girlfriend
Dispatcher: Ok, we don't need you to do that.
Zimmerman: Ok
Dispatcher: Alright sir what is your name?
Zimmerman: George…He ran. (wind noises continue)
02:38:14
(Wind noises stop some time in here)

The times in military (19:12:00) are from the dispatcher log in the initial police report. The times in minutes (02:25:20) are my audio program counter of the recording of GZ's call. Since I am not sure I have the times properly synced I have not converted the audio times to actual times. There is also the note of the time TM's gf call connected.

I think GZ got out of his vehicle while on the phone with SPD but that he did not follow very far before the dispatcher called him on it. During the rest of the call, I hear no noises that sound like car doors, wind or anything that would indicate that GZ got back out of the car.

He could have followed in the car either while still on the phone or after he got off the call. That could be why his attempts to give directions to the operator are so disoriented. He was fixated on TM, trying to spot him between the buildings, and not thinking about how to give good directions to a location where he no longer was and had no intention of being when LE arrived.

Or, he could have been getting his gun out of where ever he kept it in the vehicle and checking to make sure he had a bullet in the chamber and a full clip. That could have been the clicking noise I hear on the recording after the above sequence.

JMO, IMO, etc.

mercuriod
04-05-2012, 10:15 PM
I live in TX, so a bit different climate---but 60 degrees and you will still see people with shorts and flip flops here. :twocents::moo:

Yep, I am in shorts an flip flops about 80% of the year (besides work time when I have to be in "professional" clothing, sandals are allowed but no flip flops, "dadgum" it):floorlaugh:

Adrienne37
04-05-2012, 10:16 PM
This was in reference to whether the word C***s was said... The enhanced sound track sounds as if Zimmerman was saying 'Cold'... It was very cool that evening and with the rain it made it feel even colder. You've got to remember that in Florida people start dressing as if they was on a polar expedition once the temps start dropping below 60 degrees...

Really? I was born in Florida and have lived here my entire life and I can assure you that I have never once dressed as if I was on a polar expedition in the winter especially in temperatures around 60. Yea, I might wear a hoodie but I have never donned a snowsuit, hats, gloves, parkas, boots, googles, or anything else that might be required to go on a polar expedition.




~jmo~

mercuriod
04-05-2012, 10:18 PM
Yep, I am in shorts an flip flops about 80% of the year (besides work time when I have to be in "professional" clothing, sandals are allowed but no flip flops, "dadgum" it):floorlaugh:

Going off this, LOL I even have many colored flip flops, gotta have the outfits color coordinated don't ya know!

mercuriod
04-05-2012, 10:19 PM
Really? I was born in Florida and have lived here my entire life and I can assure you that I have never once dressed as if I was on a polar expedition in the winter especially in temperatures around 60. Yea, I might wear a hoodie but I have never donned a snowsuit, hats, gloves, parkas, boots, googles, or anything else that might be required to go on a polar expedition.




~jmo~

LOL, I know I read that and started :floorlaugh: boy someone has obviously never actually been to Florida!

csziggy
04-05-2012, 10:22 PM
not because he was just thinking randomly about burglaries-it's important to know that was his thought sequence-burglaries wasn't the essential element or object of the call, the black kid was-What made him call the police? The black kid who, when he saw him, made him immediately conclude he was a burglar, of course and he was going to get him and not let him get away like the other a%$holes did.

Yes - remember GZ's good buddy, Frank Taaffe:
Also Tuesday, Taaffe told CNN that the neighborhood had experienced a spate of burglaries over 15 months, which he said were committed by black men. But Taaffe said Zimmerman was not a racist.

"Young black men were never the topic of discussion," he said. It was that neighborhood homes had been repeatedly burglarized, he said.

Police records didn't appear to support Taaffe's assertion, describing four incidents involving black men. Taaffe declined further comment to CNN.
http://www.cnn.com/2012/04/03/justice/florida-teen-shooting/index.html

BBM

I wonder if GZ thought the same way as his buddy?

deelytful1
04-05-2012, 10:24 PM
Just because I'm too tired to find it.. didn't GZ refuse to give his address to the dispatcher? Kinda blew her off.. what was up with that? Sorry.. seems to be very relevant considering he had called the non emergency line SOOO many times and this time he doesn't want to divulge his personal info? WT?....

highflyer
04-05-2012, 10:26 PM
Thanks UVamerica and highflyer for posting those links. I thought I remembered reading that Zimmerman Sr. had discussed that letter last night on Hannity.




~jmo~

Thank you. :thumb:

Adrienne37
04-05-2012, 10:29 PM
LOL, I know I read that and started :floorlaugh: boy someone has obviously never actually been to Florida!

I've actually (in my much younger years) been known to put on a bathing suit and lay in the sun at 60 degrees.


~jmo~

legalmania
04-05-2012, 10:31 PM
Did I hear right, I just thought I heard that Zimmerman did not call 911, he was on the non-emergency line, did anyone else hear that?

deelytful1
04-05-2012, 10:35 PM
Did I hear right, I just thought I heard that Zimmerman did not call 911, he was on the non-emergency line, did anyone else hear that?

That was my belief (assumption) from the get-go... Was he on the phone with 911? Makes it even worse since the situation was definitely not an emergency,, or let me correct myself... should NOT have been

mercuriod
04-05-2012, 10:37 PM
I've actually (in my much younger years) been known to put on a bathing suit and lay in the sun at 60 degrees.


~jmo~

LOL, the heck with the younger years, my 67 year old neighbor does that all the time in the back of our units. (OK, so it is really NOT a pretty site, but I give her kudos for doing it)

Steft50
04-05-2012, 10:40 PM
Especially interesting how it wasn't enough to state George was going grocery shopping (that he ALWAYS shops on Sunday) but he needed to back it up by saying George texted his sister? to tell her he was going. A little overkill? (excuse the pun)

I'd like to know how this went from running to Target to get milk (and where did that come from?) to he always does his grocery shopping on Sunday nights at that time.

csziggy
04-05-2012, 10:42 PM
One other thing - the 46 phone calls to LE, in most cases a courtesy officer for a community is a cop, and they just call their buddies to do a drive-by or they take care of it themselves. GZ is not an officer so he couldn't do anything more than call LE. ALL 46 times he did just that.

JMO

Not really - didn't GZ follow in at least one instance?

From the file of GZ's call history (available from the City of Sanford website):

08/12/2004. GZ followed a truck for over five minutes. I'm not sure what he thought the driver had done.

10/20/2004 Followed some guy with a bag out of Blockbusters - again, he followed for about five minutes.

9/22/2009 Followed a speed bike doing wheelies, speeding and cutting in and out of traffic. Followed for a couple of minutes before he lost it.

11/03/2009 Followed a pickup cutting people off. Followed long enough to get license number, over a minute.

Seems GZ liked to follow "suspects".

IMO, JMO, etc.

legalmania
04-05-2012, 10:42 PM
LOL, the heck with the younger years, my 67 year old neighbor does that all the time in the back of our units. (OK, so it is really NOT a pretty site, but I give her kudos for doing it)

Maybe I'm just cold blooded, but when I lived in Fl. 60 to me was cold. People said it was the humidity that made it seem colder. Now I live in Georgia I think 60 is a little warm. I never thought I would feel that way but I do.

legalmania
04-05-2012, 10:44 PM
I'd like to know how this went from running to Target to get milk (and where did that come from?) to he always does his grocery shopping on Sunday nights at that time.

Target sells milk?

suzihawk
04-05-2012, 10:45 PM
Went searching and found the grand jury will likely be called next Tuesday and I was wrong, the letter was from the Zimmerman's.

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-201_162-57410188/martin-shooters-family-goes-on-the-offensive/

From your link:

"Now there is a grand jury scheduled for here for next Tuesday. The special prosecutor in the case, Angela Corrie has three options here: She can present charges to the grand jury; she could decide to file charges herself; or there could be no charges filed at all."

I'm hoping (praying) it's not the third option. Of the other two options, I think she's going to present charges to the grand jury. I don't think she's going to want to bear the burden of filing the charges all on her own shoulders. JMO

vlpate
04-05-2012, 10:46 PM
On one of his earlier interviews FT was arguing with the host or one of the other guests about the f***ing ???? phrase and insisted it was f***ing cold. FT said he KNEW that was what GZ said because he was there.
Seems like the wording may have been confusing. If this is the same interview I saw on the day the enhancement came out - they asked how he knew what was said, he answered that he was there (wherever they did enhancement), and heard it (enhancement), for himself. I remember after the show was over I brought his take on the word here and walked away with only 1/10th of my booty left! :butthead: The media was really pushing the "...on" word - it became a fact and spurred on the ugliest side I've ever seen of our MSM. JMO
<respectfully snipped>

CHICANA
04-05-2012, 10:46 PM
Yes - remember GZ's good buddy, Frank Taaffe:


BBM

I wonder if GZ thought the same way as his buddy?

I was kidnapped and robbed by a black man 13 or 14 years ago. For awhile I was fearful of all black men. I worked with a guy who was attacked, disfigured and left for dead by a homeless white guy who knew he'd just cashed his check and followed him. His lip was almost cut off and no amount of plastic surgery will make him look normal again. For awhile I was fearful of any white, unkempt male that I thought might be homeless. I guess I profiled men that met those criteria. I don't consider myself a racist, but there are some neighborhoods (that are predominantly black) that I avoid and if I have to drive through them I double check my door locks. In those neighborhoods, I'm suspicious of everyone... white, black, Hispanic, Asian. I'd like to see some stats for that area, if the majority of crimes are committed be young, black males, wouldn't it be reasonable to be more suspicious of young, black males ? Especially if they weren't known to live in the area ?

CHICANA
04-05-2012, 10:48 PM
Target sells milk?

Both Target's I go to sell milk.

csziggy
04-05-2012, 10:48 PM
was TM wailing for his life while held at gunpoint I think GZ's story implodes. IMO, that person wailing was not the assailant and was not engaged in any threat to GZ and there was plenty of time for GZ to DECIDE what to do, whether to shoot and kill him or de-escalate the encounter-for whatever reason he decided to shoot.

IMO, TM pissed GZ off. I think GZ grabbed TM, maybe by his arm to ensure he couldn't get away-I think TM may have flailed his other arm, maybe landed a punch...maybe, but not a very good one, just enough to REALLY tick GZ off and he then, if he hadn't already, pulled his gun and pointed it at TM from a very close position and let it sink in to TM that he was going to die and then he pulled the trigger. Or maybe the whole thing was done with the gun drawn and TM trying to get away while GZ hung onto him.

I don't think anyone of the witnesses can really accurately describe what happened-I think the best bet is forensics and the precise timeline that will be established. I just hope it's enough. The description of GZ after the shooting was not of an agitated and distraught individual who was engaged in a battle which makes sense in this context. There was no big fight. The more I think about it the more I feel it was like an execution with GZ feeling justified because TM was one of those a%$holes that had previously gotten away so he wasn't doing anything wrong in eliminating this threat. If GZ had ever just thought or considered that maybe TM was just a regular teenager nothing would have happened. But to GZ, TM was just a type, a prototype thug out of central casting running amok around his pristine kingdom and GZ was going to set things right this time.

I agree, I think that is a more probable scenario than the stories GZ has been telling. TM must have been terrified. I hope those wails haunt GZ for the rest of his life.

IMO, JMO, etc.

Adrienne37
04-05-2012, 10:49 PM
I'd like to know how this went from running to Target to get milk (and where did that come from?) to he always does his grocery shopping on Sunday nights at that time.

Zimmerman Sr. obviously thought it was something that we should know. I guess because Zimmerman does the grocery shopping that somehow makes him not the type of person to gun down an innocent kid.


~jmo~:maddening:

csziggy
04-05-2012, 10:51 PM
Just because I'm too tired to find it.. didn't GZ refuse to give his address to the dispatcher? Kinda blew her off.. what was up with that? Sorry.. seems to be very relevant considering he had called the non emergency line SOOO many times and this time he doesn't want to divulge his personal info? WT?....
Yes, he gave the street number the didn't give the street name. On a previous call he refused to give his address even though he was calling from home. :waitasec:

IMO, JMO, etc.

suzihawk
04-05-2012, 10:53 PM
I don't know, but if he did move the next day, there went his claims of being almost critically injured. IMO

Maybe his father and brother helped him??? ;)

deelytful1
04-05-2012, 10:54 PM
Maybe I'm just cold blooded, but when I lived in Fl. 60 to me was cold. People said it was the humidity that made it seem colder. Now I live in Georgia I think 60 is a little warm. I never thought I would feel that way but I do.

May I ask how old u are and how much you weigh?
i ask because i think the metabolism of a 28 year old, 250 pound man would be very very different..

legalmania
04-05-2012, 10:54 PM
Zimmerman Sr. obviously thought it was something that we should know. I guess because Zimmerman does the grocery shopping that somehow makes him not the type of person to gun down an innocent kid.


~jmo~:maddening:

I think not carrying around a gun would be more impressive.

HiHater
04-05-2012, 10:58 PM
Maybe his father and brother helped him??? ;)

Possibly. But you have the presence of mind to move, and remember the story was not even in the national media at that point.

Adrienne37
04-05-2012, 10:59 PM
I think not carrying around a gun would be more impressive.

I would still love to know he had his gun holstered on his waistband when he went out on Sunday nights to do the grocery shopping. One of those things that mean absolutely nothing but just sort of curious.



~jmo

legalmania
04-05-2012, 11:00 PM
May I ask how old u are and how much you weigh?
i ask because i think the metabolism of a 28 year old, 250 pound man would be very very different..

Well I'll give you this much I'm not 28 and I'm not 250 lbs. When I was 28 I was cold in Fl. never been 250 lbs so don't know. I know that when it was 50 out everyone I remember seeing was dressed for winter. From tiny babies to people who probably weighed more than 250.

JBean
04-05-2012, 11:03 PM
When it is 55-60 here in CA we are f-r-e-e-z-i-n-g. I have to wears gloves and everything . Yet, when I am in Chicago visiting family and it is 60-it seems warm and lovely! Go figure.

I have a question/comment. In my mind I picture Trayvon talking on the phone with earbuds so that I imagine Zimmerman did not necessarily know that he was on the phone. So I see I guy walking around not with any real direction-a general direction- but not a specific one as he kind of dawdled while he walked and talked to his gf-not necessarily paying attention to what was around him until he notices Zimmerman following him.

Does anyone think that because he was on the phone but not holding the phone to his ear that Zimmerman mistook him for someone up to no good?

**disclaimer** that is my understanding of how he was on the phone. if that is inaccurate for the love of God please let me know so I don;t make a further <modsnip> of myself**

Didn't he say "there is something wrong with him"? or words to that affect?Perhaps he was gesturing with the phone call but since he was the only one that could hear the call his movements looked odd? I know when people are in the market with their Bluetooth on and I can't see their Bluetooth and they are yacking away to no one I always go through a minute of thinking they have a loose screw until I realize what is happening.The fact that he was a black youth, in my opinion, possibly confirmed Zimmerman's suspicions that he was some sort of criminal?

The real problem I have is that Zimmerman was armed and looking for criminals and sometimes we see what we want. Trayvon most likely fit Zimmerman's criminal profile,IMO, and by following him it became almost a self-fulfilling prophecy in that Trayvon questioned him and well the rest is history.

I would have more support for Zimmerman if he caught Trayvon in the act of doing something illegal-but pulling out a gun seems so disproportionate to Trayvon's possible reaction to being followed that I still think this rests squarely in Zimmermans lap. I cannot help but feel that he himself created the situation for Trayvon to be killed and if true, for himself to be harmed. I don't know that he had the intent to kill him-but do think he created a situation from nothing and I fault him for that. JMHO as always.

katydid23
04-05-2012, 11:03 PM
I'd like to know how this went from running to Target to get milk (and where did that come from?) to he always does his grocery shopping on Sunday nights at that time.

What a huge discrepancy. How dare they try and change their story from going to Target to get milk to going to Target to get groceries. That must be the smoking gun.

legalmania
04-05-2012, 11:03 PM
I would still love to know he had his gun holstered on his waistband when he went out on Sunday nights to do the grocery shopping. One of those things that mean absolutely nothing but just sort of curious.



~jmo

I heard on the NBC nightly news that Zimmerman was at a class for neighborhood watch and the officer who was teaching the class told everyone not to carry a gun.

CHICANA
04-05-2012, 11:04 PM
May I ask how old u are and how much you weigh?
i ask because i think the metabolism of a 28 year old, 250 pound man would be very very different..

He doesn't weigh 250 anymore. That weight was listed when he was arrested several years ago.

HiHater
04-05-2012, 11:06 PM
What a huge discrepancy. How dare they try and change their story from going to Target to get milk to going to Target to get groceries. That must be the smoking gun.

Obviously, the difference has to do with a routine.

Does he go to the grocery store every Sunday---if so, that backs up his claim that he was not on patrol.

Was he going for milk when he just so happened to see Trayvon? That makes it seem like getting milk is being used as a cover for patrolling.

..JMO MOO IMO

vlpate
04-05-2012, 11:06 PM
Not really - didn't GZ follow in at least one instance?

From the file of GZ's call history (available from the City of Sanford website):

08/12/2004. GZ followed a truck for over five minutes. I'm not sure what he thought the driver had done.

10/20/2004 Followed some guy with a bag out of Blockbusters - again, he followed for about five minutes.

9/22/2009 Followed a speed bike doing wheelies, speeding and cutting in and out of traffic. Followed for a couple of minutes before he lost it.

11/03/2009 Followed a pickup cutting people off. Followed long enough to get license number, over a minute.

Seems GZ liked to follow "suspects".

IMO, JMO, etc.

What is wrong with any of these instances??? A speed bike doing wheelies, putting himself and others in danger - he shouldn't have called LE? Why?

A pickup cutting people off - was the guy drunk? I've called LE at least three or four times in my life on drunk drivers and obtained the license plates on the ones I could see.

Dr.Fessel
04-05-2012, 11:10 PM
I think they chose groceries because it is as far away as you can get from just a beer run.

Steft50
04-05-2012, 11:10 PM
What a huge discrepancy. How dare they try and change their story from going to Target to get milk to going to Target to get groceries. That must be the smoking gun.

<modsnip>

It's a serious question that points out how some of these "little" details keep changing and/or being added to with every interview the Zimmermans do. I also asked where the original reason for being on the street when he decided to follow Trayvon which was to go to Target to get milk.....something that seemed to be very specific in light of what ended up happening.

Beyond Belief
04-05-2012, 11:11 PM
We have discussion here at home about just how cold it is outside. Overweight hubby with high blood pressure thinks 60 is comfortable, me with my normal weight and low blood pressure is freezing my butt off when its 60. I have been an adult Floridian for 42 years.

Chris_Texas
04-05-2012, 11:11 PM
It's been over a month now since Trayvon was killed, I can only imagine how his family must feel. Hopefully the NAACP and other organizations continue to keep pressure on this case -- in my opinion that's the ONLY way this family is going to get even a chance at justice.

How long do you think we'll have to wait before hearing that Zimmerman has a book deal?

csziggy
04-05-2012, 11:14 PM
I was kidnapped and robbed by a black man 13 or 14 years ago. For awhile I was fearful of all black men. I worked with a guy who was attacked, disfigured and left for dead by a homeless white guy who knew he'd just cashed his check and followed him. His lip was almost cut off and no amount of plastic surgery will make him look normal again. For awhile I was fearful of any white, unkempt male that I thought might be homeless. I guess I profiled men that met those criteria. I don't consider myself a racist, but there are some neighborhoods (that are predominantly black) that I avoid and if I have to drive through them I double check my door locks. In those neighborhoods, I'm suspicious of everyone... white, black, Hispanic, Asian. I'd like to see some stats for that area, if the majority of crimes are committed be young, black males, wouldn't it be reasonable to be more suspicious of young, black males ? Especially if they weren't known to live in the area ?
It's one thing for individuals to use personal experiences to try to avoid being victimized the same way again. Personally while I have not had your experience, I have been victimized by Northern European illegal immigrants on more than one occasion and as a result I will not do business with any foreign nationals from those areas.

But when law enforcement or stand ins for law enforcement - such as neighborhood watch - are trying to watch out for crime, they need to keep their eyes open for all possible perpetrators and not allow themselves to put blinders on. If because they have caught some black men for burglaries in a specific neighborhood, they only look for black men as suspects in other burglaries in that neighborhood, there is a very good chance that they will miss other possible burglars.

In philosophy that is known as the "black swan fallacy" - called that because European philosophers used 'logic' to say that since the only swans that had ever been seen were white, so all swans had to be white. Then someone got to Australia and black swans were found, spoiling their entire premise.

I posted a long message about that last thread: Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - FL 17 yo Trayvon Martin Shot to Death by Neighborhood Watch Captain #16

Law enforcement and those acting in the guise of law enforcement need to be careful about this. Aside from the civil rights violations of bad arrests, bad convictions, and mistreatment of innocents, it also leads to missing actual crimes and criminals.

IMO, JMO, etc.

deelytful1
04-05-2012, 11:14 PM
I think not carrying around a gun would be more impressive.

He doesn't weigh 250 anymore. That weight was listed when he was arrested several years ago.

K thanks... I have a son who is 200 lbs and he is always warm,,,
oh AND we live in FL... sigh... i do NOT think GZ was cold...

CHICANA
04-05-2012, 11:16 PM
When it is 55-60 here in CA we are f-r-e-e-z-i-n-g. I have to wears gloves and everything . Yet, when I am in Chicago visiting family and it is 60-it seems warm and lovely! Go figure.

I have a question/comment. In my mind I picture Trayvon talking on the phone with earbuds so that I imagine Zimmerman did not necessarily know that he was on the phone. So I see I guy walking around not with any real direction-a general direction- but not a specific one as he kind of dawdled while he walked and talked to his gf-not necessarily paying attention to what was around him until he notices Zimmerman following him.

Does anyone think that because he was on the phone but not holding the phone to his ear that Zimmerman mistook him for someone up to no good?

**disclaimer** that is my understanding of how he was on the phone. if that is inaccurate for the love of God please let me know so I don;t make a further <modsnip> of myself**

Didn't he say "there is something wrong with him"? or words to that affect?Perhaps he was gesturing with the phone call but since he was the only one that could hear the call his movements looked odd? I know when people are in the market with their Bluetooth on and I can't see their Bluetooth and they are yacking away to no one I always go through a minute of thinking they have a loose screw until I realize what is happening.The fact that he was a black youth, in my opinion, possibly confirmed Zimmerman's suspicions that he was some sort of criminal?

The real problem I have is that Zimmerman was armed and looking for criminals and sometimes we see what we want. Trayvon most likely fit Zimmerman's criminal profile,IMO, and by following him it became almost a self-fulfilling prophecy in that Trayvon questioned him and well the rest is history.

I would have more support for Zimmerman if he caught Trayvon in the act of doing something illegal-but pulling out a gun seems so disproportionate to Trayvon's possible reaction to being followed that I still think this rests squarely in Zimmermans lap. I cannot help but feel that he himself created the situation for Trayvon to be killed and if true, for himself to be harmed. I don't know that he had the intent to kill him-but do think he created a situation from nothing and I fault him for that. JMHO as always.

That's a good point ! I was one of the first in my neighborhood to get a blue-tooth headset. My hair covers my ears and since I was focused on arguing with my husband, it wasn't until I hung up on him to pay that I realized everybody in Quick Trip was staring at me like I was a total psycho. Oh yeah, I was arguing with him in Spanish so they probably thought I was walking through QT yelling in tongues !!

katydid23
04-05-2012, 11:17 PM
<modsnip>

It's a serious question that points out how some of these "little" details keep changing and/or being added to with every interview the Zimmermans do. I also asked where the original reason for being on the street when he decided to follow Trayvon which was to go to Target to get milk.....something that seemed to be very specific in light of what ended up happening.

Sorry for the snark but it is getting kind of silly, imo, the way the people are piling on. I mean if I say I am running to Target to get milk, and than later I say that I am going to Target for groceries, is that really a change in my story? I think it is pretty consistent.

And saying that one is running out for milk may sound too specific, but many many people run out for milk and a few other things on Sunday night to prepare for monday mornings. When someone says they are going out for 'milk' it usually means 'milk+somethingelse+somethingelse.' Or in other words = GROCERIES.

tezi
04-05-2012, 11:19 PM
You know it's funny/odd .... I came into this case late. I had seen blips on the news and just ignored it. The blips that I did see pointed to GZ being innocent so I thought he was. THEN...I started reading. And the more I read the madder I became. I can't for the life of me understand how anyone can think this is acceptable. This is a crime board for peter, paul and mary's sake! We know a thing or two about how a normal investigation shoud go. SPD should be ashamed.....(I have a feeling they are gonna be wishing ashamed was all they were). Trayvon did not deserve this, no one does. It has to be stopped.

RBBM: I can't understand it either teh. It just boggles my mind that anyone thinks that this is in any way acceptable, because it isn't. And after reading some of the posts here, I just want to bang my head on my desk because I don't understand how anyone can defend GZ's actions.

Hitting the "thanks" button wasn't enough for me to do about this post. You have summed up exactly what I've been thinking!

I too, came into the this case late. I saw it on the news, but basically didn't pay much attention to it. Then, for some reason, I started reading the threads here. I really didn't have an opinion about GZ's guilt or anything until I started reading the threads. I quickly realized that GZ was clearly guilty of manslaughter. This shooting was in NO WAY justified, no matter how many ways GZ supporters try to spin it. He should have been arrested that night.

I can't bring myself to listen to the 9-11 call because I will probably end up hysterical myself. This was a clearly avoidable homicide that didn't have to happen. GZ had NO right following TM after the dispatcher told him he didn't need to continue doing "that."

I feel so terrible for TM's family.

GZ family is doing him NO favors by continuing to spin the story about GZ being beat so bad that he was a step away from ending up in a diaper. If he were beaten that bad, he would have been taken to the hospital.

JMO, IMO, :moo:, and all other disclaimers.

HMSHood
04-05-2012, 11:20 PM
Actually, the call logs document that he called in complaints on people he identified as white as well as Hispanic. I totally understand the comment that someone "looks [ethnicity here]" as sometimes at a distance it is hard to tell. I have often said that someone looks to be of one ethnic background but I'm not sure. IMO, there are many AAs who look white or Hispanic. And I myself am often mistaken for Hispanic or Middle Eastern. My own daughter who is not mixed race has been mistaken for biracial.

IMO, if GZ were sure of TM's race initially he would have said so. But he didn't. IMO, he saw a teenager cutting through the property and decided to follow him because of the recent burglaries, not because of the teenager's skin tone (which, IMO, would have been difficult to tell at night anyway).

JMO, OMO, and :moo:

If it was night time, there is no way one can tell. Also, it was a rainy day, so visibility would be worse.

csziggy
04-05-2012, 11:24 PM
What is wrong with any of these instances??? A speed bike doing wheelies, putting himself and others in danger - he shouldn't have called LE? Why?

A pickup cutting people off - was the guy drunk? I've called LE at least three or four times in my life on drunk drivers and obtained the license plates on the ones I could see.

I was responding to your comment:
One other thing - the 46 phone calls to LE, in most cases a courtesy officer for a community is a cop, and they just call their buddies to do a drive-by or they take care of it themselves. GZ is not an officer so he couldn't do anything more than call LE. ALL 46 times he did just that.

BBM

I provided examples where GZ did NOT just "do anything more than call LE" as you claimed. In the examples I gave he followed people for various reasons AFTER he called LE.

IMO, JMO, etc.

highflyer
04-05-2012, 11:24 PM
What is wrong with any of these instances??? A speed bike doing wheelies, putting himself and others in danger - he shouldn't have called LE? Why?

A pickup cutting people off - was the guy drunk? I've called LE at least three or four times in my life on drunk drivers and obtained the license plates on the ones I could see.

I can see calling LE but not following people. If you follow someone you are creating another hazard.

Adrienne37
04-05-2012, 11:27 PM
I heard on the NBC nightly news that Zimmerman was at a class for neighborhood watch and the officer who was teaching the class told everyone not to carry a gun.

This is probably my most favorite article that I found posted earlier in the case because it details exactly what Zimmerman was supposed to do and not supposed to do while being in the neighborhood watch program. Everything Zimmerman did in relation to his neighborhood watch program "captain" went against all the training that he was part of when the community decided to start a program at the complex.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/46830953/#.T35huqs1_TC

Steft50
04-05-2012, 11:27 PM
Sorry for the snark but it is getting kind of silly, imo, the way the people are piling on. I mean if I say I am running to Target to get milk, and than later I say that I am going to Target for groceries, is that really a change in my story? I think it is pretty consistent.

And saying that one is running out for milk may sound too specific, but many many people run out for milk and a few other things on Sunday night to prepare for monday mornings. When someone says they are going out for 'milk' it usually means 'milk+somethingelse+somethingelse.' Or in other words = GROCERIES.

Thank you, and sorry for calling you on it. :)

I understand where your coming from, but for me it's the little details that bring things together. Devils in the details as the saying goes. In my house running out for milk means we are out of milk and that is what we are doing and will be back in a few minutes. Going to do our grocery shopping means we're going grocery shopping and we'll be back later.

When someone is giving a run down on what they were doing isn't it just as easy to say either one? It's how I gauge if someone is being honest and forthright.

Not sure I am explaining that well enough but in my mind it makes sense. :)

Nana46
04-05-2012, 11:28 PM
That's a good point ! I was one of the first in my neighborhood to get a blue-tooth headset. My hair covers my ears and since I was focused on arguing with my husband, it wasn't until I hung up on him to pay that I realized everybody in Quick Trip was staring at me like I was a total psycho. Oh yeah, I was arguing with him in Spanish so they probably thought I was walking through QT yelling in tongues !!

That is soooooooooo funny....I would be the woman in Walmart who ALWAYS turns around to answer the person behind me (whom I am positive is talking to me) to find that they are on a phone attached to their ear....I am always mortified as they look at me like "what is your problem",LOL.
Sorry for the OT.

Adrienne37
04-05-2012, 11:30 PM
I can see calling LE but not following people. If you follow someone you are creating another hazard.

and I have to wonder what would have happened if he had caused a wreck in his pursuit of these people? I guess it would have been okay and that would have been excused as well.



~jmo~

ynotdivein
04-05-2012, 11:31 PM
Bumping notice that for the time being, The Grio is not considered to be MSM.

For the time being, we are not treating The Grio as MSM. We're looking into this and will let you know ASAP if there's a change in this policy.

Adrienne37
04-05-2012, 11:32 PM
Can't find the post to bump up from the mods right at the moment but we are unable to post articles/links from The Grio at this time. They mods are reviewing whether or not they fit the criteria as mainstream media.



~jmo~

Steft50
04-05-2012, 11:33 PM
What is wrong with any of these instances??? A speed bike doing wheelies, putting himself and others in danger - he shouldn't have called LE? Why?

A pickup cutting people off - was the guy drunk? I've called LE at least three or four times in my life on drunk drivers and obtained the license plates on the ones I could see.

I dont think anyone has said he shouldn't have called the police in the instances listed. I think what they are saying is Zimmerman has a history of wanting to be more involved than just reporting problems and in doing so could have put even more people including himself in even more danger.

csziggy
04-05-2012, 11:34 PM
That's a good point ! I was one of the first in my neighborhood to get a blue-tooth headset. My hair covers my ears and since I was focused on arguing with my husband, it wasn't until I hung up on him to pay that I realized everybody in Quick Trip was staring at me like I was a total psycho. Oh yeah, I was arguing with him in Spanish so they probably thought I was walking through QT yelling in tongues !!
:floorlaugh:

I remember the first time I saw someone talking "to themselves" - I saw the thing in their ear but didn't know what it was. The mystery was solved that night when I saw an ad on TV for the ear pieces. I felt like such a dweeb since I'd never heard of that kind of attachment for a cell phone! :blushing:

katydid23
04-05-2012, 11:34 PM
Thank you, and sorry for calling you on it. :)

I understand where your coming from, but for me it's the little details that bring things together. Devils in the details as the saying goes. In my house running out for milk means we are out of milk and that is what we are doing and will be back in a few minutes. Going to do our grocery shopping means we're going grocery shopping and we'll be back later.

When someone is giving a run down on what they were doing isn't it just as easy to say either one? It's how I gauge if someone is being honest and forthright.

Not sure I am explaining that well enough but in my mind it makes sense. :)

I understand what you are saying. They should be more exacting. I guess i was reading between the lines a bit. He said going to Target for milk. I assumed he meant 'milk + bread+cereal' because he was going to Target and not 7/11. If I ONLY need milk I'm not going to go into Target.

I think going to get milk is a way of saying 'groceries.' But maybe that is just me because I do that myself.

frenchvixen
04-05-2012, 11:40 PM
This is probably my most favorite article that I found posted earlier in the case because it details exactly what Zimmerman was supposed to do and not supposed to do while being in the neighborhood watch program. Everything Zimmerman did in relation to his neighborhood watch program "captain" went against all the training that he was part of when the community decided to start a program at the complex.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/46830953/#.T35huqs1_TC

I guess one would call GZ a rogue neighborhood watchman (chuckling to self)

Steft50
04-05-2012, 11:41 PM
I understand what you are saying. They should be more exacting. I guess i was reading between the lines a bit. He said going to Target for milk. I assumed he meant 'milk + bread+cereal' because he was going to Target and not 7/11. If I ONLY need milk I'm not going to go into Target.

I think going to get milk is a way of saying 'groceries.' But maybe that is just me because I do that myself.

Hey I'm with ya on that one. If I just need milk I don't go to well...I use Walmart not Target and I wouldn't go there for one thing. When we just need milk, usually, my daughter and I will go and she'll run into the Safeway to get it. It's way cheaper there than the convience store but it's not nearly as crazy busy as somewhere like Target or Walmart, and for us it's right down the road.

Adrienne37
04-05-2012, 11:43 PM
Great perspective from teenagers who are dealing with the aftermath of Trayvon's murder. Quite an eye opener for me personally.

Teens say their life has changed because of Trayvon Martin...

“It's forced me to look at the world as black versus white, and not people versus people,” shared Orlando teenager IT.

“I'm going to say that, I'm gonna start looking out for this type of thing,” Roberts added.

“I've never really cared about the looks people gave me or anything, but seeing how people look at you, feels like you're being judged now based on the color you are,” shared Altamonte Springs teenager MVB.

“I don't feel safe. I don't feel safe because we're still in the same mindset that we were back in the 1960s when Martin Luther King Jr. gave his speech... 'I have a dream',” T told News 13.

“I don't feel safe as a teenager anymore,” T<modsnip> reiterated.

T<modsnip> continued that he is typical teenager who likes to hang out and spend time at the movies. However, recently his theater attire has changed.

“I have actually refrained from wearing hoods because it's that fear factor that comes into play. You don't know what... well you know what people are capable of nowadays it makes you wanna watch out on the types of things I wear.”

http://www.cfnews13.com/content/news/cfnews13/news/article.html/content/news/articles/cfn/2012/4/5/teens_share_perspect

mercuriod
04-05-2012, 11:46 PM
We have discussion here at home about just how cold it is outside. Overweight hubby with high blood pressure thinks 60 is comfortable, me with my normal weight and low blood pressure is freezing my butt off when its 60. I have been an adult Floridian for 42 years.

Well thank god I am not overweight and don't have high blood pressure, and am under 50 (not saying by how much, LOL), lived in FL off and on most my life to me 60 is "cool", 72 is perfect, 80 better have the air conditioning on at least 72, but I would NEVER classify any of that as dressing for an artic outing.

justplainmetal
04-05-2012, 11:47 PM
A write up on the problem with the police in Sanford and the Zimmerman case.

I thought this one was interesting, "Likewise, Rebecca Wright said at the hearing, her son was killed in 2010, and his killer was allowed to go free because he thought he was being followed, felt threatened and shot her son."

http://orlandoweekly.com/news/trayvon-martin-case-is-a-black-eye-for-sanford-1.1295169

Allusonz
04-05-2012, 11:49 PM
BBM Really???? Hmm I live in Florida and I never dress as if I were on a polar expedition, why it even went down into the 40's last year and I didn't even wear gloves. 60 degress is not considered cold here, cool yes, but cold, get real. jmo, imo (and personal experience) and all that jazz

What I have found throughout my travels is that the humidity levels seem to play a role in the level of cold I feel.

Whethere there is any scientific studies to back this up I have no idea. This is simply my observation during my travels.

JMO MOO

frenchvixen
04-05-2012, 11:51 PM
LE has said they have Trayvon's phone - Crump said the phone was in TM's pocket, with the skittles, 22.00 and the can of tea.

I get so vexed when I read that the police had Trayvon's phone. Then why did they let him sit there in the morgue like an unwanted child after his death? <modsnip> if his skin was white the cops would have sympathized with his parents and made the effort to find them.

mercuriod
04-05-2012, 11:51 PM
RBBM: I can't understand it either teh. It just boggles my mind that anyone thinks that this is in any way acceptable, because it isn't. And after reading some of the posts here, I just want to bang my head on my desk because I don't understand how anyone can defend GZ's actions.

Hitting the "thanks" button wasn't enough for me to do about this post. You have summed up exactly what I've been thinking!

I too, came into the this case late. I saw it on the news, but basically didn't pay much attention to it. Then, for some reason, I started reading the threads here. I really didn't have an opinion about GZ's guilt or anything until I started reading the threads. I quickly realized that GZ was clearly guilty of manslaughter. This shooting was in NO WAY justified, no matter how many ways GZ supporters try to spin it. He should have been arrested that night.

I can't bring myself to listen to the 9-11 call because I will probably end up hysterical myself. This was a clearly avoidable homicide that didn't have to happen. GZ had NO right following TM after the dispatcher told him he didn't need to continue doing "that."

I feel so terrible for TM's family.

GZ family is doing him NO favors by continuing to spin the story about GZ being beat so bad that he was a step away from ending up in a diaper. If he were beaten that bad, he would have been taken to the hospital.

JMO, IMO, :moo:, and all other disclaimers.

Thank you for this post, I feel exactly the same way. At first I was giving GZ the benefit of doubt, I still support the SYG law, just don't feel GZ is in anyway justified in trying to invoke it. Then after reading more news reports and here am absolutely convince that GZ is at the very least guilty of manslaughter and very, very possible 1st degree murder. jmo, imo and all that jazz

mercuriod
04-05-2012, 11:52 PM
I was responding to your comment:

BBM

I provided examples where GZ did NOT just "do anything more than call LE" as you claimed. In the examples I gave he followed people for various reasons AFTER he called LE.

IMO, JMO, etc.

Yes GZ does have a penchant for taking the law into his own hands doesn't he? jmo, imo and all that jazz

Beyond Belief
04-05-2012, 11:53 PM
I am not quite understanding self defense and a fight. Amongst the many things i have read the past couple days on that subject, I am still wrestling with something I read somewhere. Here goes:
A fight is a crime, both participants are considered guilty of that crime.
The one claiming self defense must have tried to end the fight in a peacefully manner before he took a more aggressive step in trying to protect himself/herself.
I hope I said that right.
I was going to add more, but it will just work its way out of context. So I'll stick with just wondering if that is true when your fighting and feel you have the right to claim self defense.

suzihawk
04-05-2012, 11:56 PM
Sorry for the snark but it is getting kind of silly, imo, the way the people are piling on. I mean if I say I am running to Target to get milk, and than later I say that I am going to Target for groceries, is that really a change in my story? I think it is pretty consistent.

And saying that one is running out for milk may sound too specific, but many many people run out for milk and a few other things on Sunday night to prepare for monday mornings. When someone says they are going out for 'milk' it usually means 'milk+somethingelse+somethingelse.' Or in other words = GROCERIES.

I can only defend my reasons for commenting on the milk/Target issue (although I shouldn't have to, IMO).

The reason the comments stick out to me (personally) is that it seems terribly important for the Zimmermans to put this little detail out to the public about going to Target (or wherever he grocery shops or goes to get milk). So important, that it he mentions it twice to Sean Hannity. 1) that he always goes shopping on Sunday evenings and 2) that he texted his sister to let her know he's going grocery shopping just prior to leaving for the store. Which coincidentally - or not - was immediately prior to him shooting Trayvon Martin. That makes me (personally) wonder why this little detail seems so important. I hardly think that falls into the category of 'piling on', IMO.

HTH and MOO

chefmom
04-05-2012, 11:58 PM
I understand what you are saying. They should be more exacting. I guess i was reading between the lines a bit. He said going to Target for milk. I assumed he meant 'milk + bread+cereal' because he was going to Target and not 7/11. If I ONLY need milk I'm not going to go into Target.

I think going to get milk is a way of saying 'groceries.' But maybe that is just me because I do that myself.

I wish I could ever walk in a store for one thing and just walk out with that thing! Lol! A trip to get mlk for me ends up in me spending $60! I am a grocery store addict! I love to cook and DH loves to eat!

legalmania
04-05-2012, 11:59 PM
This is probably my most favorite article that I found posted earlier in the case because it details exactly what Zimmerman was supposed to do and not supposed to do while being in the neighborhood watch program. Everything Zimmerman did in relation to his neighborhood watch program "captain" went against all the training that he was part of when the community decided to start a program at the complex.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/46830953/#.T35huqs1_TC

I always thought the neighborhood watch consisted of the neighborhood grouch, who would call security every time they saw something they didn't like. I remember one neighborhood I lived in this lady would measure your grass and if it was to tall she would call the association. I guess times have changed.

Beyond Belief
04-06-2012, 12:07 AM
Well thank god I am not overweight and don't have high blood pressure, and am under 50 (not saying by how much, LOL), lived in FL off and on most my life to me 60 is "cool", 72 is perfect, 80 better have the air conditioning on at least 72, but I would NEVER classify any of that as dressing for an artic outing.
Do we have link for the proper arctic clothes wear for Floridians?:floorlaugh:

katydid23
04-06-2012, 12:08 AM
I get so vexed when I read that the police had Trayvon's phone. Then why did they let him sit there in the morgue like an unwanted child after his death? <modsnip> if his skin was white the cops would have sympathized with his parents and made the effort to find them.

But didn't they go to his Dad early the next morning? I think that story about the three days in the morgue was incorrect.

My friends son was found dead and they did not get a visit until the following morning and he was a white boy. They found his phone and his car but wanted to run prints to make sure it was really him before the notification.

Just because they found a cell phone that wouldn't mean it was not lost or stolen. And they probably thought that the cell owner lived in Miami. So maybe they thought it wasn't Trayvon until they got the call that he was missing.

legalmania
04-06-2012, 12:08 AM
Hey I'm with ya on that one. If I just need milk I don't go to well...I use Walmart not Target and I wouldn't go there for one thing. When we just need milk, usually, my daughter and I will go and she'll run into the Safeway to get it. It's way cheaper there than the convience store but it's not nearly as crazy busy as somewhere like Target or Walmart, and for us it's right down the road.

I can't get over the fact Target sells groceries, when the heck did this happen? What next Sears selling a pharmaceuticals?

i.b.nora
04-06-2012, 12:09 AM
We know from having seen a picture of the house address signage; smallish numbers by the light by the garage door. I am not sure those numbers can be readily seen from the street, so what difference would it make to relay a house number to the police?

CHICANA
04-06-2012, 12:10 AM
I can only defend my reasons for commenting on the milk/Target issue (although I shouldn't have to, IMO).

The reason the comments stick out to me (personally) is that it seems terribly important for the Zimmermans to put this little detail out to the public about going to Target (or wherever he grocery shops or goes to get milk). So important, that it he mentions it twice to Sean Hannity. 1) that he always goes shopping on Sunday evenings and 2) that he texted his sister to let her know he's going grocery shopping just prior to leaving for the store. Which coincidentally - or not - was immediately prior to him shooting Trayvon Martin. That makes me (personally) wonder why this little detail seems so important. I hardly think that falls into the category of 'piling on', IMO.

HTH and MOO

Except it really doesn't matter, unless it's coming from Zimmerman himself.

Beyond Belief
04-06-2012, 12:12 AM
Did Trayvon go to Target? I didn't see a gas station or little store on the google earth map. It looked all residential with a school across from the complex and a shopping center to the left of the school.

i.b.nora
04-06-2012, 12:13 AM
From what I remember reading, the 'incident' happened Sunday night. The body was identified by the father, via a photograph, on Monday sometime. And, the body was not released to the family from the morgue until Wednesday. Hence, three days.

vlpate
04-06-2012, 12:13 AM
This is an interesting interview with Natalie Jackson, co-counsel for the Martin family. March 30, 2012

Democracy Now - LINK here (Not sure how much credibility this site has, but the interview is legit)
Interesting points brought up by N. Jackson
-Proof Trayvon made a call when this happened
-Family has not been given any information into the investigation of the death of their son. LE is telling them nothing.
-Witness I've not heard before - Natalie doesn't seem comfortable with him
-Even after the parents identified him, he was labeled as a John Doe for three days - she has no explanation for that
-Parents filed a missing persons report (I thought Tracy called 911 at 8:00 a.m., and LE was there shortly thereafter)
-We hired an investigator that went out and got the phone records.
-Once we saw Trayvon's phone records, because he had his phone with him, we saw he was on the phone when this incident "purportedly" happened! (huh?) "We contacted the person he was on the phone with, it was a young girl, and ummm, she told us that she heard Zimmerman approach Trayvon!
Trayvon's twitter and facebook account hacked

So how can Tracy Martin recite what he was told to him by LE about the investigation if there was no investigation and they've told the family nothing at all?
This interview raises a ton of questions for me.

thefragile7393
04-06-2012, 12:14 AM
I can't get over the fact Target sells groceries, when the heck did this happen? What next Sears selling a pharmaceuticals?

Long time actually. Most Targets carry food and Super Targets have a full grocery store

Sent from my SGH-T989 using Tapatalk

suzihawk
04-06-2012, 12:17 AM
Except it really doesn't matter, unless it's coming from Zimmerman himself.

It matters because Mr. Zimmerman Sr. and his brother have a vested interest in providing information, alibis and excuses for George. IMO

mercuriod
04-06-2012, 12:18 AM
I can't get over the fact Target sells groceries, when the heck did this happen? What next Sears selling a pharmaceuticals?

Super Targets, just like Super Walmart's. LOL my husband and I used to say you know you are driving through a "real" town, not just some podunk little township of they had a Super Walmart. One of the criteria for a "potential" move was that a Super Walmart was a "must".

legalmania
04-06-2012, 12:19 AM
Long time actually. Most Targets carry food and Super Targets have a full grocery store

Sent from my SGH-T989 using Tapatalk

So did Trayvon go to the Target to get the skittles, and Ice Tea? All this time I thought he went to a convenient store.

Adrienne37
04-06-2012, 12:21 AM
Did Trayvon go to Target? I didn't see a gas station or little store on the google earth map. It looked all residential with a school across from the complex and a shopping center to the left of the school.

HTH...


http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2012/04/02/us/the-events-leading-to-the-shooting-of-trayvon-martin.html

Isabelle
04-06-2012, 12:22 AM
I can only defend my reasons for commenting on the milk/Target issue (although I shouldn't have to, IMO).

The reason the comments stick out to me (personally) is that it seems terribly important for the Zimmermans to put this little detail out to the public about going to Target (or wherever he grocery shops or goes to get milk). So important, that it he mentions it twice to Sean Hannity. 1) that he always goes shopping on Sunday evenings and 2) that he texted his sister to let her know he's going grocery shopping just prior to leaving for the store. Which coincidentally - or not - was immediately prior to him shooting Trayvon Martin. That makes me (personally) wonder why this little detail seems so important. I hardly think that falls into the category of 'piling on', IMO.

HTH and MOO

To give the impression that he is just a person like anyone else.

legalmania
04-06-2012, 12:23 AM
Super Targets, just like Super Walmart's. LOL my husband and I used to say you know you are driving through a "real" town, not just some podunk little township of they had a Super Walmart. One of the criteria for a "potential" move was that a Super Walmart was a "must".

Well here in small town Georgia we do have a Super Walmart but no Super Target. Does anyone know if Trayvon frequented his father girlfriends house?

Adrienne37
04-06-2012, 12:24 AM
So did Trayvon go to the Target to get the skittles, and Ice Tea? All this time I thought he went to a convenient store.

No Legalmania, Trayvon did just go to the 7-11 store for the Skittles and iced tea. According to Zimmerman Sr., Zimmerman was on his way to Target at the time of the murder to buy milk which then changed to buy groceries because that's what he always does on Sunday nights.



~jmo~

Isabelle
04-06-2012, 12:25 AM
This is an interesting interview with Natalie Jackson, co-counsel for the Martin family. March 30, 2012

Democracy Now - LINK here (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1RaIN_YTsi0) (Not sure how much credibility this site has, but the interview is legit)
Interesting points brought up by N. Jackson
-Proof Trayvon made a call when this happened
-Family has not been given any information into the investigation of the death of their son. LE is telling them nothing.
-Witness I've not heard before - Natalie doesn't seem comfortable with him
-Even after the parents identified him, he was labeled as a John Doe for three days - she has no explanation for that
-Parents filed a missing persons report (I thought Tracy called 911 at 8:00 a.m., and LE was there shortly thereafter)
-We hired an investigator that went out and got the phone records.
-Once we saw Trayvon's phone records, because he had his phone with him, we saw he was on the phone when this incident "purportedly" happened! (huh?) "We contacted the person he was on the phone with, it was a young girl, and ummm, she told us that she heard Zimmerman approach Trayvon!
White supremacist hacked into Trayvon's twitter and facebook account :what:

So how can Tracy Martin recite what he was told to him by LE about the investigation if there was no investigation and they've told the family nothing at all?
This interview raises a ton of questions for me.

Is it possible that no information has been given to the parents with the new investigation? These parents are out of their minds with grief and can't expect to be right on point with every statement they make.

Isabelle
04-06-2012, 12:27 AM
Does anyone think a decision will be made before April 10th?

Beyond Belief
04-06-2012, 12:27 AM
HTH...


http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2012/04/02/us/the-events-leading-to-the-shooting-of-trayvon-martin.html
I don't see a store location marked on that map. I looked at google earth itself and didn't see a convenience store. The target if thats it with all the parking spots left of the school is a long walk.

Adrienne37
04-06-2012, 12:29 AM
I don't see a store location marked on that map. I looked at google earth itself and didn't see a convenience store. The target if thats it with all the parking spots left of the school is a long walk.

On the very right hand side of the map about middle ways down, you will see where it says 7-11. That is the store that Trayvon went to when he purchased the Skittles and the iced tea.

~jmo~

Adrienne37
04-06-2012, 12:31 AM
Does anyone think a decision will be made before April 10th?

I was optimistic based on Angela Corey's first few comments about the case that she might not need to present to the grand jury but the last couple of articles didn't give that impression. I don't care which route she goes as long as he is indicted on manslaughter or possibly second degree murder.



~jmo~

i.b.nora
04-06-2012, 12:34 AM
To give the impression that he is just a person like anyone else.
Also to 'steer' anyone away from the notion that he might have been 'on patrol'.

legalmania
04-06-2012, 12:36 AM
On the very right hand side of the map about middle ways down, you will see where it says 7-11. That is the store that Trayvon went to when he purchased the Skittles and the iced tea.

~jmo~

Did they get Martin on surveillance? They may have gotten him walking up and back and could they have also captured Zimmerman in his car?

i.b.nora
04-06-2012, 12:41 AM
I was optimistic based on Angela Corey's first few comments about the case that she might not need to present to the grand jury but the last couple of articles didn't give that impression. I don't care which route she goes as long as he is indicted on manslaughter or possibly second degree murder.

~jmo~
Remember that it is a brand new Grand Jury, so it might take a day or so to get up and running, and also, they might only meet twice a week. I would have to look at their website to see for sure, and I am NOT going to do that at this time.

TonyGatto
04-06-2012, 12:41 AM
I get so vexed when I read that the police had Trayvon's phone. Then why did they let him sit there in the morgue like an unwanted child after his death? <modsnip> if his skin was white the cops would have sympathized with his parents and made the effort to find them.

He didn't really sit in the morgue. TM's dad found out the next morning.

Steft50
04-06-2012, 12:47 AM
<modsnip>

I have not been convinced that what Zimmerman did was racially motivated. I think the more we've learned about his past behaviour like the multiple times he's apparently followed people he's called the police on, and even the number of times he's called the police over the years should be telling us so much more about him than any racial issues. It tells us he wants to be the hero, the life/property saver thing going on.

Heck, i'm 50 something years old, I've lived in 2 countries and multiple states through out my life, I'm nosey as hell and I sure wouldn't hesitate to call the police if I felt it was needed, and I have on a few occasions...but seriously....46 times and he's not even in his 30's yet? It just feels like it's too much....over the top and I feel this hero need he has, has led him to the situation he's in now.

I feel the racism issue has more to do with some within the local LE and state attorneys office and even possibly a witness or two.

Just my opinions...nothing more and nothing less.

beach
04-06-2012, 12:49 AM
The next person who even thinks about referencing the Klan is gonna be TO'd.

DROP IT RIGHT NOW.

Beyond Belief
04-06-2012, 12:54 AM
On the very right hand side of the map about middle ways down, you will see where it says 7-11. That is the store that Trayvon went to when he purchased the Skittles and the iced tea.

~jmo~
Thanks, no wonder I couldn't find it, that map has north on the bottom. How far does that look to you, maybe half a mile to the store?

Dr.Fessel
04-06-2012, 12:56 AM
He didn't really sit in the morgue. TM's dad found out the next morning. If the person doing the autopsy did not know his name that is a serious thing. They want to know everything they can about the person.

TonyGatto
04-06-2012, 12:57 AM
All that really matters is what happened in the one minute period before the shot was fired.

TonyGatto
04-06-2012, 01:01 AM
If the person doing the autopsy did not know his name that is a serious thing. They want to know everything they can about the person.

They knew who it was about 12 hours after death. I don't see the significance. The main thing in this autopsy is the bullet wound, other wounds on the body -- not whether the person had heart disease or was a longtime drug user.

legalmania
04-06-2012, 01:03 AM
He didn't really sit in the morgue. TM's dad found out the next morning.

His father told fox news in an interview, that when Trayvon didn't return the next morning he called police to see if he was in an accident and wanted to report him missing. The officer said they would send someone out, next thing he knew there were a couple of detectives and an Officer at his door. They showed Martin some pictures of his son and then he knew his son was gone.

http://fox2now.com/2012/03/22/trayvons-father-speaks-about-sons-murder/

highflyer
04-06-2012, 01:08 AM
All that really matters is what happened in the one minute period before the shot was fired.

I disagree. Besides what happened exactly in the death of Trayvon Martin, the very possible cover up by the police department is also important.

Isabelle
04-06-2012, 01:20 AM
We know from having seen a picture of the house address signage; smallish numbers by the light by the garage door. I am not sure those numbers can be readily seen from the street, so what difference would it make to relay a house number to the police?

And those little address numbers or lack of is a real nightmare for home health nurses!

Beyond Belief
04-06-2012, 01:20 AM
All that really matters is what happened in the one minute period before the shot was fired.
i agree with that. If the calls from GZ for help prove he tried to put an end to the confrontation he will probably walk free.

Isabelle
04-06-2012, 01:20 AM
OT: story of Etan Patz on TLC

TonyGatto
04-06-2012, 01:21 AM
I disagree. Besides what happened exactly in the death of Trayvon Martin, the very possible cover up by the police department is also important.

You're right about the possibility of a cover-up. And I know that GZ's following TM is a factor, but, unfortunately, not in the eyes of the law. All this talk about whether GZ was going to Targe for milk or milk + other groceries, is 60 degrees cold, I wonder what any of that will mean in the end. Even whether GZ had a broken nose or not is not really that important. The case will center around what happened in that one minute before the shot went off.

csziggy
04-06-2012, 01:22 AM
Did Trayvon go to Target? I didn't see a gas station or little store on the google earth map. It looked all residential with a school across from the complex and a shopping center to the left of the school.
Trayvon went to a 7-Eleven - the closest one is west of the subdivision, down Rinehart Road in front of the Sam's. Unlike many convenience stores, it does not have gas pumps and it is at the end of a strip of stores. If you want to Google it, it's at 1125 Rinehart Road, Sanford, Florida. The Target GZ was going to is at 1201 WP Ball Boulevard Sanford, FL.

Isabelle
04-06-2012, 01:23 AM
You're right about the possibility of a cover-up. And I know that GZ's following TM is a factor, but, unfortunately, not in the eyes of the law. All this talk about whether GZ was going to Targe for milk or milk + other groceries, is 60 degrees cold, I wonder what any of that will mean in the end. Even whether GZ had a broken nose or not is not really that important. The case will center around what happened in that one minute before the shot went off.

Family, friends and whoever stated GZ was going to Target may have done so believing he was and giving GZ a reason to be in his vehicle at that time.

Beyond Belief
04-06-2012, 01:26 AM
Trayvon went to a 7-Eleven - the closest one is west of the subdivision, down Rinehart Road in front of the Sam's. Unlike many convenience stores, it does not have gas pumps and it is at the end of a strip of stores. If you want to Google it, it's at 1125 Rinehart Road, Sanford, Florida. The Target GZ was going to is at 1201 WP Ball Boulevard Sanford, FL.
Ok, thanks, I thought that was S Oregon.

Dr.Fessel
04-06-2012, 01:30 AM
They knew who it was about 12 hours after death. I don't see the significance. The main thing in this autopsy is the bullet wound, other wounds on the body -- not whether the person had heart disease or was a longtime drug user. From the minute I heard that 911 tape I just hoped the Medical Examiner looked under the skin of his neck for damage that might not have shown up as bruising.

I think most of Trayvon's body should have been checked that way, at least the arms and legs.

If the ME had not been allowed to contact the family they might have not known this was not just a case of some street thug who nobody cared about who attacked a man. They might have looked a little closer then normal.

All IMO.

TonyGatto
04-06-2012, 01:30 AM
Of all the lies and disinformation that have been alleged to have come out of the mouths of GZ's representatives -- there is only one that really matters. And it is only IMO that this is a lie. That is that TM hit GZ, or initiated an assault in any other manner. I believe GZ is making that part up. I believe GZ was the first to initiate a physical confrontation, by grabbing this person who he thought was a bad guy in an attempt to hold him for police. In reality, I think that's when TM popped him and the struggle ensued. Since GZ put his hands on TM first (IMO) is why I think he should be arrested and charged.

Dr.Fessel
04-06-2012, 01:37 AM
You know it is really something in the dark and the rain Zimmerman was able to guess the age of a 6'.3 kid so close. He said he was in his late teens. Wonder what gave that away?

vlpate
04-06-2012, 01:38 AM
I can see calling LE but not following people. If you follow someone you are creating another hazard.

Ok, I read the reports because when it doesn't sound right, investigate. Almost all of these calls are calls a courtesy officer at an apartment community would make. 99% involve apartments, Pebble Creek being one, there is no other explanation - it is doubtful he was driving through apartments looking for people receiving notes on their doors and calling in pool parties. Looking at the records, he's probably been a courtesy officer since 2005. Reporting open garage doors and knocking on resident's doors are definitely things a CO would do. Courtesy Officers go along to do evictions with management in case there's a dispute. Why am I not surprised this wasn't looked into more? What was SPD's reason for releasing these calls in the first place? They are hardly sinister. I just don't get why it is necessary to make a horrible situation worse.

How was he "following" the guy on the dirt bike. Is there a code for "following" on these reports?
Nothing about "following" the guy cutting people off, the call lasted 2 minutes.

One of his calls "constantly different people in 1097 - this is a sign of a dealers apartment. Very common report by courtesy officer and is encouraged by management.

Did anyone notice his call to let LE know a 7-9 year old was walking alone on a busy street?

JMO

csziggy
04-06-2012, 01:39 AM
Thanks, no wonder I couldn't find it, that map has north on the bottom. How far does that look to you, maybe half a mile to the store?
It's right at a mile from the subdivision, one way.

Allusonz
04-06-2012, 01:45 AM
<modsnip>

I have not been convinced that what Zimmerman did was racially motivated. I think the more we've learned about his past behaviour like the multiple times he's apparently followed people he's called the police on, and even the number of times he's called the police over the years should be telling us so much more about him than any racial issues. It tells us he wants to be the hero, the life/property saver thing going on.

Heck, i'm 50 something years old, I've lived in 2 countries and multiple states through out my life, I'm nosey as hell and I sure wouldn't hesitate to call the police if I felt it was needed, and I have on a few occasions...but seriously....46 times and he's not even in his 30's yet? It just feels like it's too much....over the top and I feel this hero need he has, has led him to the situation he's in now.

I feel the racism issue has more to do with some within the local LE and state attorneys office and even possibly a witness or two.

Just my opinions...nothing more and nothing less.

How much information do we have with respect to these incidents?

I simply have to ask as there have been 3 times I have reported a driver either having a medical episode/maybe drunk. I have to state maybe as I have never been privey to what the outcome of the cause of the erratic driving.

Each time I have been on a freeway with no exit for a number of miles with no way to exit. Each time I have been advised to keep a distance and remain on the phone with the 911 operator as there was simply no other place to go.

vlpate
04-06-2012, 01:48 AM
Is it possible that no information has been given to the parents with the new investigation? These parents are out of their minds with grief and can't expect to be right on point with every statement they make.

She makes it clear in the video. My notes were just highlights. It probably goes without saying they aren't getting much info on the present investigation...although I do think there has been some dialogue between attorneys and SP - and I think it has to do with the racial slur not being there.

vlpate
04-06-2012, 01:51 AM
You know it is really something in the dark and the rain Zimmerman was able to guess the age of a 6'.3 kid so close. He said he was in his late teens. Wonder what gave that away?

Remember at one point Trayvon started toward Zimmerman, but I don't remember at which point in the 911 call he says he's a teen, before or after.

LolaMoon08
04-06-2012, 01:51 AM
Early on, I believe it was Zimmerman's father who said that his son was a mentor to young black kids? I think it's great if he was... but no one ever came forward to say he was? There's no pictures that have been released with him mentoring young black kids? What kind of organization did he go through to mentor these kids? I honestly believe if George was ever a mentor to young black kids, there would be some photographs with him and these kids and they would proudly be displayed on all the media stations?

Now we have dad saying George was also an advocate for the black community during the Collison case? I seen the letter, but I didn't see any flyers? Did anyone else see the flyers and is there any way to tell that they were actually made during the time of the Collison case? Anyone can make up a flyer on their computer?

I think it would be wonderful if George did these things... but I'm having a hard time believing it because I don't understand why it's just coming out now about the Collison case? Wouldn't it have been brought up a long time ago when the information about him mentoring young black kids came out?

The timing just seems... off?

Beyond Belief
04-06-2012, 01:53 AM
A mile to buy a drink and some candy is a long way.

highflyer
04-06-2012, 01:55 AM
Ok, I read the reports because when it doesn't sound right, investigate. Almost all of these calls are calls a courtesy officer at an apartment community would make. 99% involve apartments, Pebble Creek being one, there is no other explanation - it is doubtful he was driving through apartments looking for people receiving notes on their doors and calling in pool parties. Looking at the records, he's probably been a courtesy officer since 2005. Reporting open garage doors and knocking on resident's doors are definitely things a CO would do. Courtesy Officers go along to do evictions with management in case there's a dispute. Why am I not surprised this wasn't looked into more? What was SPD's reason for releasing these calls in the first place? They are hardly sinister. I just don't get why it is necessary to make a horrible situation worse.

How was he "following" the guy on the dirt bike. Is there a code for "following" on these reports?
Nothing about "following" the guy cutting people off, the call lasted 2 minutes.

One of his calls "constantly different people in 1097 - this is a sign of a dealers apartment. Very common report by courtesy officer and is encouraged by management.

Did anyone notice his call to let LE know a 7-9 year old was walking alone on a busy street?

JMO

That's great, but the post was referencing Zimmerman specifically FOLLOWING someone in several instances. This is relevant because it appears he may of been following Trayvon. The fact that he was following people he deemed reckless who were in moving vehicles making himself also a possible danger to others shows a disregard for others safety. Goes back to "we don't need you to do that".

HiHater
04-06-2012, 01:56 AM
Ok, I read the reports because when it doesn't sound right, investigate. Almost all of these calls are calls a courtesy officer at an apartment community would make. 99% involve apartments, Pebble Creek being one, there is no other explanation - it is doubtful he was driving through apartments looking for people receiving notes on their doors and calling in pool parties. Looking at the records, he's probably been a courtesy officer since 2005. Reporting open garage doors and knocking on resident's doors are definitely things a CO would do. Courtesy Officers go along to do evictions with management in case there's a dispute. Why am I not surprised this wasn't looked into more? What was SPD's reason for releasing these calls in the first place? They are hardly sinister. I just don't get why it is necessary to make a horrible situation worse.

How was he "following" the guy on the dirt bike. Is there a code for "following" on these reports?
Nothing about "following" the guy cutting people off, the call lasted 2 minutes.

One of his calls "constantly different people in 1097 - this is a sign of a dealers apartment. Very common report by courtesy officer and is encouraged by management.

Did anyone notice his call to let LE know a 7-9 year old was walking alone on a busy street?

JMO

Am I missing something? George Zimmerman was a courtesy officer? Employed by whom?

Kimster
04-06-2012, 01:57 AM
This thread will be closing in about 5 minutes until the morning shifts signs on which is about 4 or 5 hours from now.

Please consider looking in on some Unidentified or Cold Cases. They could use the help of our creative night owls. :grouphug:

:seeya:

rotterdam
04-06-2012, 01:57 AM
Thank you, and sorry for calling you on it. :)

I understand where your coming from, but for me it's the little details that bring things together. Devils in the details as the saying goes. In my house running out for milk means we are out of milk and that is what we are doing and will be back in a few minutes. Going to do our grocery shopping means we're going grocery shopping and we'll be back later.

When someone is giving a run down on what they were doing isn't it just as easy to say either one? It's how I gauge if someone is being honest and forthright.

Not sure I am explaining that well enough but in my mind it makes sense. :)

I agree with you. To me, it looks RZ Sr is trying to emphasize that GZ was on a regular weekly routine and not out there lurking/praying, hoping to ensnare a suspicious (in his mind only)stranger as part of his neighborhood watch routine.
And I strongly suspect the motive for that elaborate embellished info., that even included a phone call to sis, is to torpedo an anticipated HOA litigation suit. One has to take care of their neighbors, like Mr Taaffe and others..
In view that such neighbors could be questioned by the FBI about any unusual behaviors by GZ.
Like you said. The devil is in the details.

HiHater
04-06-2012, 01:58 AM
A mile to buy a drink and some candy is a long way.

Not when you're 17 and in shape. JMO

mikeysmommom
04-06-2012, 02:00 AM
Here is a scenario that IMO agrees with the witnesses, evidence, timeline and police report as we have them at this point. Disclaimer -- This is MOO and speculation only:

A physical fight has begun. TM has the upper hand and is on top. GZ's head hits the sidewalk a couple of times. They are grappling violently on the ground. Both men are vocalizing loudly. GZ sees the bystander (witness) and calls out for him to help. Bystander yells at "him" (who?) "to stop" but keeps his distance from the fighting men. Says he is calling 911 and leaves the scene to do so. GZ and TM are now alone. Struggle continues and escalates to the tipping point. GZ shoots TM at close range, abruptly ending the fight. TM stands or staggers for a moment as GZ scrambles to his feet. TM, mortally wounded, crumples or falls to the ground face down. GZ then straddles TM (perhaps pinning him for his own safety just in case?) and checks TM for a weapon and/or signs of life, etc. Witnesses immediately begin to emerge/gather. LE arrives at the scene almost instantly, as a unit was already on its way due to GZ's earlier call to report a suspicious person.

Not saying I believe that is what happened, and I am not on anyone's "side." IMO, without more factual evidence to consider, none of us can know with any certainty in this climate of heated rhetoric, misinformation and hysteria. Just explaining one example of how TM could end up face down after being shot, with GZ standing over or straddling him in the moments after he went down. JMO

IMO That is exactly the same as what I have put together.IMO GZ will not be arrested nor should he be.Let's see what happens when they show the evidence to prove he should not be arrested.IMO It will be ugly but the National Guard will make sure to be in place before they announce anything to try to protect the citizens JMO.No way will the buses and local black communities believe the decision is the right one even if they have the whole thing on videos from the condo community.JMO but on many boards no matter what some just want to here C@@NS coming from GZ, want this to be a hate crime instead of it being exactly what it was.JMO.We all are speculating but things like premeditated murder IMO is really stretching it to far.No one knows what the police have or have not done.IMO This case will have far reaching effects on us all.JMO

highflyer
04-06-2012, 07:00 AM
IMO That is exactly the same as what I have put together.IMO GZ will not be arrested nor should he be.Let's see what happens when they show the evidence to prove he should not be arrested.IMO It will be ugly but the National Guard will make sure to be in place before they announce anything to try to protect the citizens JMO.No way will the buses and local black communities believe the decision is the right one even if they have the whole thing on videos from the condo community.JMO but on many boards no matter what some just want to here C@@NS coming from GZ, want this to be a hate crime instead of it being exactly what it was.JMO.We all are speculating but things like premeditated murder IMO is really stretching it to far.No one knows what the police have or have not done.IMO This case will have far reaching effects on us all.JMO

I disagree at least with the evidence that we have. Look forward to the grand jury getting a good look at things. Either way may real justice be served.

rotterdam
04-06-2012, 07:06 AM
I find this interesting. The Trayvon Martin case is now on the radar of the U.N./ commission of Human Rights.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/9189884/Trayvon-Martin-killing-UN-human-rights-chief-calls-for-investigation.html

LiveLaughLuv
04-06-2012, 07:13 AM
Breaking: Zimmerman's 911 Call Enhanced Audio..."ITS ****ING COLD" - YouTube

Don't know if you all saw this...another enhanced audio of GZ's alleged racial slur..

Now this one is claiming he's saying it's phucking cold...too bad no one checked the weather for that night before making this absurd assumption...


The weather that night for Sanford was 63 degrees..6:53pm with light rain..
http://www.wunderground.com/history/...q_statename=NA


So, depends on who's ears are listening, I guess....I believe the most important folks who determine GZ's fate will be ACory/DOJ and The Grand Jury...I await their conclusion...

TonyGatto
04-06-2012, 07:29 AM
GZ's lawyers on CBS this morning. When asked about the prosecution's case answered by saying they didn't want to try it in the press. They then went on to present the entire defense case.

annalia
04-06-2012, 07:37 AM
GZ's lawyers on CBS this morning. When asked about the prosecution's case answered by saying they didn't want to try it in the press. They then went on to present the entire defense case.

LOL, they did that same thing the other night on one of the shows, they repeat GZ's claims as if it's proven fact, then when they're questioned further on it they say they're not going to try the case in the media.

JMHO

Emeralgem
04-06-2012, 07:38 AM
No Legalmania, Trayvon did just go to the 7-11 store for the Skittles and iced tea. According to Zimmerman Sr., Zimmerman was on his way to Target at the time of the murder to buy milk which then changed to buy groceries because that's what he always does on Sunday nights.



~jmo~

I don't have a link, but did I read somewhere or hear GZ went to the store after eating dinner that night.. Don't know about anyone else but I usually don't feel the urge to go to the grocery store after I have eaten..JMHO

TonyGatto
04-06-2012, 07:41 AM
City of Sanford prepares for response to George Zimmerman decision

http://www.clickorlando.com/news/City-of-Sanford-prepares-for-response-to-George-Zimmerman-decision/-/1637132/10276020/-/xeilns/-/index.html

gxm
04-06-2012, 07:55 AM
I don't have a link, but did I read somewhere or hear GZ went to the store after eating dinner that night.. Don't know about anyone else but I usually don't feel the urge to go to the grocery store after I have eaten..JMHO

They say it's the best time to go grocery shopping because you don't over spend. Going on an empty stomach = higher bill.

JMO, OMO, and :moo:

Elley Mae
04-06-2012, 07:58 AM
iirc he was on his way to target

Emeralgem
04-06-2012, 08:02 AM
They say it's the best time to go grocery shopping because you don't over spend. Going on an empty stomach = higher bill.

JMO, OMO, and :moo:

I fully realize IF you go to the grocery when you are hungry you are going to spend more money, however for the most part I don't believe too many people make a decision on a Sunday night to go to the grocery store when they have just eaten.JMHOOTS..

Horace Finklestein
04-06-2012, 08:08 AM
I don't have a link, but did I read somewhere or hear GZ went to the store after eating dinner that night.. Don't know about anyone else but I usually don't feel the urge to go to the grocery store after I have eaten..JMHO

Is that incriminating somehow?

Emeralgem
04-06-2012, 08:10 AM
Is that incriminating somehow?

IMHO.. It very well could be..But that JMHOOTS

LiveLaughLuv
04-06-2012, 08:10 AM
Of all the lies and disinformation that have been alleged to have come out of the mouths of GZ's representatives -- there is only one that really matters. And it is only IMO that this is a lie. That is that TM hit GZ, or initiated an assault in any other manner. I believe GZ is making that part up. I believe GZ was the first to initiate a physical confrontation, by grabbing this person who he thought was a bad guy in an attempt to hold him for police. In reality, I think that's when TM popped him and the struggle ensued. Since GZ put his hands on TM first (IMO) is why I think he should be arrested and charged.

I happen to believe GZ pounced on TM, so this A**hole wouldn't get away..which is when the wrestling began..

I saw a map where they showed where TM was shot dead, yards from his doorstep and where GZ lives...but I'd like to see where exactly ZM had his vehicle parked..which is important....he claims TM came to his vehicle...so, how would he get from one end of that complex to where TM was shot dead in under 2 minutes...does anyone have a map to show where the vehicle was parked in relation to where TM died? TIA

Horace Finklestein
04-06-2012, 08:14 AM
IMHO.. It very well could be..But that JMHOOTS

Ok you lost me here...he went to the store after dinner...and that is somehow suspicious or incriminating? Is that something criminals do - I'm not understanding the implication. Would GZ appear in a more favorable light if he had been able to confirm that he planned to eat dinner after going to the store?

Emeralgem
04-06-2012, 08:15 AM
I happen to believe GZ pounced on TM, so this A**hole wouldn't get away..which is when the wrestling began..

I saw a map where they showed where TM was shot dead, yards from his doorstep and where GZ lives...but I'd like to see where exactly ZM had his vehicle parked..which is important....he claims TM came to his vehicle...so, how would he get from one end of that complex to where TM was shot dead in under 2 minutes...does anyone have a map to show where the vehicle was parked in relation to where TM died? TIA

Papa has posted a map several times, but I don't know what threads they are posted on..JMHO

Emeralgem
04-06-2012, 08:18 AM
Ok you lost me here...he went to the store after dinner...and that is somehow suspicious or incriminating? Is that something criminals do - I'm not understanding the implication. Would GZ appear in a more favorable light if he had been able to confirm that he planned to eat dinner after going to the store?

Sorry, I lost you...
IMHO GZ's actions can't be presented in any favorable light..JMHO

imamaze
04-06-2012, 08:21 AM
Working on a new thread, will be closing this one in a few...

Peliman
04-06-2012, 08:24 AM
I am not quite understanding self defense and a fight. Amongst the many things i have read the past couple days on that subject, I am still wrestling with something I read somewhere. Here goes:
A fight is a crime, both participants are considered guilty of that crime.
The one claiming self defense must have tried to end the fight in a peacefully manner before he took a more aggressive step in trying to protect himself/herself.
I hope I said that right.
I was going to add more, but it will just work its way out of context. So I'll stick with just wondering if that is true when your fighting and feel you have the right to claim self defense.

Good question, made me look it up for the state of Fla.

Q. When can I use my handgun to protect myself?

A. Florida law justifies use of deadly force when you are:

Trying to protect yourself or another person from death or serious bodily harm;
Trying to prevent a forcible felony, such as rape, robbery, burglary or kidnapping.
Using or displaying a handgun in any other circumstances could result in your conviction for crimes such as improper exhibition of a firearm, manslaughter, or worse.

Example of the kind of attack that will not justify defending yourself with deadly force: Two neighbors got into a fight, and one of them tried to hit the other by swinging a garden hose. The neighbor who was being attacked with the hose shot the other in the chest. The court upheld his conviction for aggravated battery with a firearm, because an attack with a garden hose is not the kind of violent assault that justifies responding with deadly force.

Q. What if someone uses threatening language to me so that I am afraid for my life or safety?

A. Verbal threats are not enough to justify the use of deadly force. There must be an overt act by the person which indicates that he immediately intends to carry out the threat. The person threatened must reasonably believe that he will be killed or suffer serious bodily harm if he does not immediately take the life of his adversary.

http://licgweb.doacs.state.fl.us/weapons/self_defense.html

imamaze
04-06-2012, 08:24 AM
Ok, closing... Please continue here...

FL 17 yo Trayvon Martin Shot to Death by Neighborhood Watch Captain #18 - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community