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mysteriew
04-05-2012, 09:34 AM
California prison officials have released a new photo of serial killer Charles Manson.

The photos show Manson, 77, with long, gray hair and a beard. It released at the request of CNN in advance of an April 11 parole hearing.
http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lanow/2012/04/new-photos-shows-an-aging-charles-manson.html

Kimberlyd125
04-05-2012, 09:39 AM
He still looks as creepy as ever.

oh_gal
04-05-2012, 09:41 AM
Looks like he's got an Abraham-complex. (I would have said "Jesus-complex" except for the grey hair).

What a total waste of a life.

Gozgals
04-05-2012, 09:42 AM
Manson is going before the parole board again this month. An aging
criminal who has never changed. As if he will ever see the outside of a cell.

This is one mad man that will go down in history.

http://www.cnn.com/2012/04/04/justice/california-charles-manson/index.html?npt=NP1

Goz

mysteriew
04-05-2012, 10:14 AM
LOL one of the articles compared him to Father Time

Wise Old Owl
04-05-2012, 10:14 AM
http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnn/dam/assets/120404112631-charles-manson-june-2011-story-top.jpg

http://www.cnn.com/2012/04/04/justice/california-charles-manson/index.html?npt=NP1


Wow - he sure does look different. No mistaking that lovely tattoo between his eyes though.

He will never get out.

Years ago there were a bunch of guys who vowed that IF he was ever granted parole that they would be at the prison gates waiting with their shotguns. For quite a few years they were at the gates when his parole board met. I wonder if they are still showing up?

Besides, he's got his BFF's in his wing with him now - Garrido and Gardener were both placed in Manson's wing after sentencing. I can't imagine those 3 in the same building - spooky stuff. Can you imagine the conversations they must have? (((((shiver))))

May he (and the other 2) rot in prison.




JMHO

Reality Orlando
04-05-2012, 10:27 AM
How did he EVER get the possibility of parole??? He was sentenced to death, then California decided to drop the death penalty, but why wasn't that changed to life with no possible parole? How can that even be a consideration after what he was responsible for? Dear Lord, what that group did to the pregnant Sharon Tate alone qualifies for never being allowed out into society again.

norest4thewicked
04-05-2012, 10:35 AM
I would have never recognized him, save for the swastika. I don't think that Manson would be able to survive outside of prison. Hasn't he only lived about 20 or 30 years of his life outside of some sort of facility? What a wacko!

davehead21
04-05-2012, 10:41 AM
http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnn/dam/assets/120404112631-charles-manson-june-2011-story-top.jpg

http://www.cnn.com/2012/04/04/justice/california-charles-manson/index.html?npt=NP1


Wow - he sure does look different. No mistaking that lovely tattoo between his eyes though.

He will never get out.

Years ago there were a bunch of guys who vowed that IF he was ever granted parole that they would be at the prison gates waiting with their shotguns. For quite a few years they were at the gates when his parole board met. I wonder if they are still showing up?

Besides, he's got his BFF's in his wing with him now - Garrido and Gardener were both placed in Manson's wing after sentencing. I can't imagine those 3 in the same building - spooky stuff. Can you imagine the conversations they must have? (((((shiver))))

May he (and the other 2) rot in prison.

JMHO

I did not know that the three of them are in the same wing. That sends chills up and down my spine.

JenniferTx
04-05-2012, 11:41 AM
Just seeing that man makes my skin crawl.

Lera213
04-05-2012, 11:56 AM
Parole Denied! is my prediction. LOL oh and MOO

MayraMM
04-05-2012, 02:35 PM
I think he did less than 30 years as a free man. He was in his 30s or 40s when arrested for these murders, and had already served more than half his life in institutions, so really, he has no concept of how to survive in the world. What's really odd is that there are so many criminals out there that equal, if not exceed, his atrocities, yet for some reason they don't hold the same interest with the public as Manson and his girls. I wonder why that is.

MayraMM
04-05-2012, 02:37 PM
Looks like he was 34 when arrested for the Tate/LaBianca murders, so he spent less than 15 years of his entire life as a free man, and those were mostly as a child.

SyraKelly
04-05-2012, 02:44 PM
Who is Gardener?

HMSHood
04-05-2012, 02:46 PM
He should stay in prison until he dies.

QueenD
04-05-2012, 02:49 PM
Just as creepy as ever to me!

Nova
04-05-2012, 03:17 PM
How did he EVER get the possibility of parole??? He was sentenced to death, then California decided to drop the death penalty, but why wasn't that changed to life with no possible parole? How can that even be a consideration after what he was responsible for? Dear Lord, what that group did to the pregnant Sharon Tate alone qualifies for never being allowed out into society again.

IANAL, but I don't believe the penalty of life-without-parole existed at the time the Supreme Court overturned the death penalty. So capital cases reverted to whatever sentence would have been the other option at the time of trial.

(ETA: I was wrong here. See Fishee's post below.)

***

With all due respect to my dear friend Gozgals, I think we should take care to avoid putting the words "Charles Manson" and "released" together in a sentence. Might be some sort of unintentional, evil spell.

But, seriously, I don't think we have to worry about Manson ever getting out. In the first place, he shows no remorse. In the second, California doesn't parole murderers casually any more.

Melanie
04-05-2012, 03:25 PM
John Albert Gardner III, serving life in prison for the rapes and murders of two North County teens, is sharing a unit with mass-murderer Charles Manson.

The sex offender pleaded guilty to the rapes and murders of Amber Dubois, 14, of Escondido, and Chelsea King, 17, of Poway.

Both close to my heart, as these cases happened here in San Diego. I find it fitting that Gardner has to spend his days and nights with one of the worst mad-men in history!

Can I get an AMEN!

Mel

Quiche
04-05-2012, 03:27 PM
He's obviously on some sort of drug treatment in some of those photos-- it's amazing that he looked older in 1996 than he did in 2006! His most recent shot has him looking like an old man again.

I've known a few mentally ill people, and the size of their eyes change, a lot, imo. Notice that in some pics his eyes appear larger and brighter, in some years, small and beady? It's the small and beady ones that I'm most cautious around. moo :moo:

BeeBeeOh
04-05-2012, 03:33 PM
I know its inappropriate-- but the thought of Manson being granted a release, posted on the curb with $100 and not a clue what 2012 is like would be the most ridiculously funny reality show ever. He would of course have a mental breakdown... maybe I am just sleepy in the mid afternoon and a bit slap happy, but the thought of Manson having lunch with Kim Kardashian, or the real housewives made me laugh so hard I snorted.

Fishee
04-05-2012, 03:42 PM
How did he EVER get the possibility of parole??? He was sentenced to death, then California decided to drop the death penalty, but why wasn't that changed to life with no possible parole? How can that even be a consideration after what he was responsible for? Dear Lord, what that group did to the pregnant Sharon Tate alone qualifies for never being allowed out into society again.

"[A]ny prisoner now under a sentence of death ... may file a petition for writ of habeas corpus in the superior court inviting that court to modify its judgment to provide for the appropriate alternative punishment of life imprisonment or life imprisonment without possibility of parole specified by statute for the crime for which he was sentenced to death." 1972 - California v. Anderson (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California_v._Anderson)

Doesn't matter - Chuck's not going anywhere and he knows it. He didn't even show up (http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/world/year-old-charles-manson-denied-parole/story-e6frev00-1225758517526?from=public_rss)for his 2007 hearing.

Nova
04-05-2012, 03:51 PM
"[A]ny prisoner now under a sentence of death ... may file a petition for writ of habeas corpus in the superior court inviting that court to modify its judgment to provide for the appropriate alternative punishment of life imprisonment or life imprisonment without possibility of parole specified by statute for the crime for which he was sentenced to death." 1972 - California v. Anderson (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California_v._Anderson)

Doesn't matter - Chuck's not going anywhere and he knows it. He didn't even show up (http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/world/year-old-charles-manson-denied-parole/story-e6frev00-1225758517526?from=public_rss)for his 2007 hearing.

Thank you, Fishee, for the correction. So I assume that the crimes for which Manson was convicted simply didn't carry LWOP as a penalty.

LietKynes
04-05-2012, 04:24 PM
Thinking about Gardener --which I rarely do until I read this post today --- still brings tears to my eyes. What Amber and Cheseas' families went through and still endure gives me chills. Most people cherish their children.
As far as Manson, it's amazing that he could EVER be considered for parole. One sad thing about his case that stood out was that when he was let out before the Tate and LaBianca (sp?) murders; he pleaded NOT to be freed, saying (paraphrased) " Please don't let me out, I wouldn't know how to survive in the real world.." . I think that Manson was quoted saying that in "Helter Skelter' , but I'm not sure. It's been a while since I read that.
I think the pain of the victims' families has not subsided and there would be an outcry if Manson was actually freed. I don't live in the state where he's incarcerated, but might be influenced to write to that prison in oppostion of the release of any of Mansons' followers --if it looked like any of them were to be freed.
Some of his followers have 'found religion' and are supposedly different now.
But their crimes still endure as some of the most heinous ever committed.
jmo

Kat
04-05-2012, 04:59 PM
He's getting that cloudy look in his eyes that I've seen when older people start to fade away.

He might not be around a lot longer. I call it "when the light starts to leave their eyes" look.

A very severely mentally ill and very dangerous man.

HMSHood
04-05-2012, 05:19 PM
John Albert Gardner III, serving life in prison for the rapes and murders of two North County teens, is sharing a unit with mass-murderer Charles Manson.

The sex offender pleaded guilty to the rapes and murders of Amber Dubois, 14, of Escondido, and Chelsea King, 17, of Poway.

Both close to my heart, as these cases happened here in San Diego. I find it fitting that Gardner has to spend his days and nights with one of the worst mad-men in history!

Can I get an AMEN!

Mel

They should duke it out in prison.

LunaticFringe
04-05-2012, 05:45 PM
I think he did less than 30 years as a free man. He was in his 30s or 40s when arrested for these murders, and had already served more than half his life in institutions, so really, he has no concept of how to survive in the world. What's really odd is that there are so many criminals out there that equal, if not exceed, his atrocities, yet for some reason they don't hold the same interest with the public as Manson and his girls. I wonder why that is.

You're correct about the interest.If I am flipping through the Guide and I spy something about Manson I always go to that channel...even if I have seen it 50times before.

Kat
04-06-2012, 02:53 AM
I've posted this before on WS but can't remember which thread.

Back in the early 80's I was in college. I had the opportunity to read a letter that CM had written in response to a letter he received in jail. It was brought into the classroom by another student.

It was about 3 or 4 pages of rambling. With drawings and scribbled words along the margins. The man is what we could label with the legal term insane. Completely out of touch with reality for the most part. I can only imagine he's worse now.

I read a book (I've read quite a few about CM so I can't remember which one ) but it seems IIRC he had been in KY (or some state adjacent possibly) prior to his going out West and he was thieving or some such on farmers land. The farmers shot his backside full of rock salt. IIRC it was said he said he'd never go back to those parts again. I always remember the rock salt thing whenever CM's name comes up in the news for some reason lol. Just sharing.

~n/t~
04-06-2012, 08:59 AM
John Albert Gardner III, serving life in prison for the rapes and murders of two North County teens, is sharing a unit with mass-murderer Charles Manson.

The sex offender pleaded guilty to the rapes and murders of Amber Dubois, 14, of Escondido, and Chelsea King, 17, of Poway.

Both close to my heart, as these cases happened here in San Diego. I find it fitting that Gardner has to spend his days and nights with one of the worst mad-men in history!

Can I get an AMEN!

Mel

A big Amen from me! I followed Amber's case from Day 1 and hold a special and dear place in my heart for her.

I'm suprised Manson is still alive!! Do we know if he has any illnesses...well besides his mental issues?

~n/t~
04-06-2012, 09:06 AM
"[A]ny prisoner now under a sentence of death ... may file a petition for writ of habeas corpus in the superior court inviting that court to modify its judgment to provide for the appropriate alternative punishment of life imprisonment or life imprisonment without possibility of parole specified by statute for the crime for which he was sentenced to death." 1972 - California v. Anderson (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California_v._Anderson)

Doesn't matter - Chuck's not going anywhere and he knows it. He didn't even show up (http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/world/year-old-charles-manson-denied-parole/story-e6frev00-1225758517526?from=public_rss)for his 2007 hearing.

I don't even think he'd want to get out at this point. Where would he go? He spent more than half is life in prison....a place he probably calls home.

On a side note....how did he get a cellphone? Twice? :what:



Could Charles Manson Friend You on Facebook?

http://www.fastcompany.com/1727419/could-charles-manson-friend-you-on-facebook

Fishee
04-06-2012, 12:51 PM
I don't even think he'd want to get out at this point. Where would he go? He spent more than half is life in prison....a place he probably calls home.

He's said as much in the past.

It's the only life he knows.

not_my_kids
04-06-2012, 01:11 PM
In reality, he was and still is, nothing but a man with a talent for finding weak minds and bending them to his will. He didn't have the guts or kill for himself, so he got weaker minds to do it.

If he stays in, he stays in. If he gets out, he gets another group of weak minds, and they commit crimes under his urging that they likely would have eventually committed on their own anyway. He's nothing but a catalyst, and he can do that with letters from prison, just as easily as in person. He's a danger, to some extent, as long as he lives, on the outside or the inside.

I'm more concerned about the people that would flock to him upon his release, if he were ever released.

Hazura Jane
04-06-2012, 01:22 PM
Kat, that cloudy fading-away look is the very first thing I noticed about the picture. Stupid criminal - didn't even correctly commit the revenge murder his minions carried out - all of that Manson "family" was just a bunch of pathetic, violent, sadistic, common losers. And Mr. "Hiding in the Cabinet Under the Bathroom Sink" is the worst of them all. Meh.

MayraMM
04-07-2012, 02:33 PM
In reality, he was and still is, nothing but a man with a talent for finding weak minds and bending them to his will. He didn't have the guts or kill for himself, so he got weaker minds to do it.

If he stays in, he stays in. If he gets out, he gets another group of weak minds, and they commit crimes under his urging that they likely would have eventually committed on their own anyway. He's nothing but a catalyst, and he can do that with letters from prison, just as easily as in person. He's a danger, to some extent, as long as he lives, on the outside or the inside.

I'm more concerned about the people that would flock to him upon his release, if he were ever released.

He did commit murder himself. There are several murders that they think he committed, just can't prove it or find the bodies. I may be wrong, but I thought he did Shorty Shay himself.

It's so weird that Manson is considered the epitome of evil. He was actually a product of institutionalization combined with a sociopathic personality and delusions of grandeur. The people that followed him were the ones to worry about. If not him, it would have been someone else. They were prime for being manipulated and actively looked for it.

The person who I think was much scarier was Kuklinski. Now that man was evil. He wasn't crazy or delusional, which I think makes it even worse. The way he killed people, and the fact that he tested out new methods of killing on innocent people are shocking. He tried out poisoning by walking down the street, pretending to sneeze, and squirting a random person in the face with his concoction; all just to check the effectiveness of his technique. Then go home to his wife and kids like he was a regular Joe on the streets.

Kat
04-07-2012, 06:04 PM
Off topic to Manson but on topic to Mayra's post directly above mine.

Here is a link to watch The Iceman: Confessions of a Mafia Hitman a Documentary of Kuklinski that features him speaking. (Link is to part one, there are two parts to this and you can view it online free).

He gave me freakin' nightmares after I watched this with my Husband.

http://topdocumentaryfilms.com/the-iceman-confessions-of-a-mafia-hitman/

Sorry for the offtopic but wanted to share.

BeeBeeOh
04-07-2012, 06:09 PM
a current episode of First 48: the killers speak... Prospect Place Killer interview blew me away.

http://www.watchseries-online.eu/2012/03/the-first-48-s12-special-the-killer-speaks.html

Danaya
04-08-2012, 01:33 PM
Wow, he looks pretty rough but he's always looked nuts. I remember reading Helter Skelter when I was around 14-great book.

LinasK
04-08-2012, 03:52 PM
Thinking about Gardener --which I rarely do until I read this post today --- still brings tears to my eyes. What Amber and Cheseas' families went through and still endure gives me chills. Most people cherish their children.
As far as Manson, it's amazing that he could EVER be considered for parole. One sad thing about his case that stood out was that when he was let out before the Tate and LaBianca (sp?) murders; he pleaded NOT to be freed, saying (paraphrased) " Please don't let me out, I wouldn't know how to survive in the real world.." . I think that Manson was quoted saying that in "Helter Skelter' , but I'm not sure. It's been a while since I read that.
I think the pain of the victims' families has not subsided and there would be an outcry if Manson was actually freed. I don't live in the state where he's incarcerated, but might be influenced to write to that prison in oppostion of the release of any of Mansons' followers --if it looked like any of them were to be freed.
Some of his followers have 'found religion' and are supposedly different now.
But their crimes still endure as some of the most heinous ever committed.
jmo
They won't be, the outrage that still exists in California is too great. I was a young girl living in L.A. when the murders were committed. I still remember what happened.
Susan Atkins tried to get released based on her breast cancer- she was denied and died in prison!

HMSHood
04-09-2012, 04:56 PM
Charles Manson is no different from Osama bin Laden or Fred Phelps. Megalomaniacs with a god complex. :crazy:

The Farm
04-09-2012, 05:35 PM
Old Charlie will NEVER get out and will die in prison.

Gozgals
04-10-2012, 04:25 PM
I don't want him walking the streets ever.
First off, Old Charlie is a prison boy, forever and foremost.

Second, every loser out here wants to follow some God, (So, they think) like
Charlie. I don't understand but I'm sure his fans are widespread- still.
He has this influence over the lost generation and this will continue even
after he is gone.

Goz

Gozgals
04-10-2012, 04:31 PM
He did commit murder himself. There are several murders that they think he committed, just can't prove it or find the bodies. I may be wrong, but I thought he did Shorty Shay himself.

It's so weird that Manson is considered the epitome of evil. He was actually a product of institutionalization combined with a sociopathic personality and delusions of grandeur. The people that followed him were the ones to worry about. If not him, it would have been someone else. They were prime for being manipulated and actively looked for it.

The person who I think was much scarier was Kuklinski. Now that man was evil. He wasn't crazy or delusional, which I think makes it even worse. The way he killed people, and the fact that he tested out new methods of killing on innocent people are shocking. He tried out poisoning by walking down the street, pretending to sneeze, and squirting a random person in the face with his concoction; all just to check the effectiveness of his technique. Then go home to his wife and kids like he was a regular Joe on the streets.


He may not have done the crimes himself, (yet I'm sure he is responsible for a death or 10 by his own hand) but what is worrisome is that his influence to those that are lost, makes him a dangerous SOB. Sure, there will be others like Charlie, but if we know of them, it is for us to stop them from spreading the sickness and evil. Granted,many exist too that are pure evil like this pig Killinski..


Good day
Goz

The Farm
04-10-2012, 04:57 PM
Kuklinski was one very scary man, plus he was huge and strong. I read the book about him.

Gozgals
04-10-2012, 05:03 PM
http://crime.about.com/od/gangsters/a/kuklinkski.htm

Link on Kiklinkski

One scary man.. He never had a chance when one reads about his childhood, but that does not mean I have any sympathy for the devil. He could have gotten help..

thanks Farm

Goz

Snip
Stanley was a severely abusive alcoholic who beat his wife and children. Anna was also abusive to her children, sometimes beating them with broom handles.
In 1940, Stanley's beatings resulted in the death of Kuklinski's old brother, Florian. Stanley and Anna hid the cause of the child's death from the authorities, saying he had fallen down a flight of steps.
Snip

mysteriew
04-10-2012, 10:15 PM
Charles Manson Parole 2012: At 77, Notorious Criminal Still Has Family Of Supporters

http://www.ibtimes.com/articles/325654/20120409/charles-manson-parole-2012-murders-sharon-tate.htm


*shiver*

This one is a must read

Cazzie
04-11-2012, 08:49 AM
For four decades the sister of murdered actress Sharon Tate has traveled to whatever rural California prison has held the notorious cult leader and his band of murderous followers for hearings she says are too numerous to count.

Even Manson's state-appointed attorney, DeJon Ramone Lewis, said he is unsure of Manson's plan. If Manson does show, it would be the first time the two have met — Manson declined a meeting a month ago when Lewis went to Corcoran State Prison to prepare for the hearing.
Manson, however, is anything but a recluse. He has a steady stream of visitors who submit requests to see him, including college students writing papers about him, said Theresa Cisneros, spokeswoman for Corcoran State Prison.
Manson must approve all requests.
"He has a large interested public," she said, adding that Manson receives more mail than most prisoners.
http://tribune-democrat.com/latestnews/x101443657/Manson-likely-a-no-show-for-his-parole-hearing

mysteriew
04-11-2012, 09:30 AM
Mass murderer Charles Manson set to have parole hearing, but he may not attend
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504083_162-57412305-504083/mass-murderer-charles-manson-set-to-have-parole-hearing-but-he-may-not-attend/

The Farm
04-11-2012, 05:19 PM
I see Old Charlie will live the rest of his days on the CA taxpayers dollars. Parole denied.

mysteriew
04-11-2012, 06:15 PM
Charles Manson's Son: Matthew Roberts Says Serial Killer Conceived Him At Orgy
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/04/11/charles-mansons-son-matthew-roberts_n_1417414.html

DNA tests have been inconclusive

mysteriew
04-11-2012, 06:16 PM
Calif. prison panel denies Manson's bid for parole

Manson, now a gray-bearded, 77-year-old, did not attend the hearing where the parole board ruled he had shown no efforts to rehabilitate himself and would not be eligible for parole for another 15 years.

Read more: http://www.seattlepi.com/news/article/Calif-prison-panel-denies-Manson-s-bid-for-parole-3473275.php#ixzz1rlySI7eG

Fishee
04-11-2012, 08:49 PM
Charles Manson denied parole, with next parole hearing set for 2027

http://www.cnn.com/2012/04/11/justice/california-charles-manson/index.html?hpt=hp_t3

No show again.

bessie
04-12-2012, 02:22 AM
Charles Manson's Son: Matthew Roberts Says Serial Killer Conceived Him At Orgy
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/04/11/charles-mansons-son-matthew-roberts_n_1417414.html

DNA tests have been inconclusive
The resemblance is strong! I detected a similarity to Manson's voice, too. I wasn't looking at the video when he started to speak, and I thought it was CM. I wish we could hear a longer clip.

You have to feel for the guy. Who wants to live with that legacy. He says it's caused him nothing but grief. So I wonder how the story broke. If I were him, I wouldn't have told a soul. He did have to get a DNA sample from CM, so it's possible that prison staff leaked a rumor. Or Manson, himself, during a visit with one of his many followers. Ugh!

mysteriew
04-12-2012, 06:31 AM
Besides the fact that Manson didn't show up for the hearing there were other factors for him being turned down.

He's special, at least in his eyes as he discussed with a psychiatrist


108 serious discipline violations
found to be in possession of an inmate-manufactured weapon (now in isolation)
found to be in a possession of a cell phone
more
http://www.kesq.com/news/30875007/detail.html

kline
04-12-2012, 07:59 AM
Well it is kind of hard to imagine what role Charlie would play in the Great Society in 2012.

Hopeful One
04-12-2012, 09:42 AM
Charlie Manson has always fascinated me. I even wrote to him in prison once when I was really young and REALLY stupid. I don't know what I was thinking. Needless to say, he didn't write back. My letter was even returned. I have no idea why. Probably they could sense I was young and REALLY stupid. :D

He is evil, sick in the head, and I'm so glad he will never get out. Lord only knows what would happen if he did. We are all safer with him locked up.

marauder
04-12-2012, 02:10 PM
...maybe I am just sleepy in the mid afternoon and a bit slap happy, but the thought of Manson having lunch with Kim Kardashian, or the real housewives made me laugh so hard I snorted.

That's funny to my warped sense of humor.

Of all the Manson Family who were convicted of murder, only one, Clem Grogan, was ever released. Grogan went on to become a professional musician in a successful rock band, and has played alongside some of the biggest names in rock n roll. A reality show for him doesn't seem too far-fetched.

Gozgals
04-13-2012, 07:40 AM
Charles Manson denied parole, with next parole hearing set for 2027

http://www.cnn.com/2012/04/11/justice/california-charles-manson/index.html?hpt=hp_t3

No show again.

What a Shock!

Goz

mysteriew
04-13-2012, 05:02 PM
Charles Manson Is Not A Serial Killer, Experts Say
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/04/12/charles-manson-is-not-a-serial-killer_n_1422172.html

I don't know that I totally agree with the article. First Manson is believed to have killed or ordered killed more than what he was convicted of. Did he have the cooling off period though? The article doesn't mention spree killer, and I think that defination might more closely define Manson.