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ThoughtFox
04-10-2012, 11:01 PM
Doing an investigation? Why does the three day window upset you?
I'll be honest because they have had weeks to get something done and people are sick of waiting. This also makes the prosecutor appear weak because George is playing hide and go seek with her! Who is in charge here? This is turning into even more of a sideshow carnival.

I can see that she might be giving George a chance to come back home and turn himself in, but it's really irritating that we have to go through three more days of waiting on a guy who believes he is totally innocent. If he will be exonerated, fine - let him prove it in court.

All anyone ever wanted in this case is for the system to work for George the way it works for everyone else in the country. He made a choice and he has to put on his big boy pants, stop hiding behind Daddy and Frank Taaffe, and pull himself together.

Adrienne37
04-10-2012, 11:04 PM
Okay... so the SA can't charge him if he isn't in Florida? Can they put out a warrant for his arrest?

If he fled... there are people kicking themselves hard right now, IMO.

It doesn't matter where he's at because she can charge him but if he didn't turn himself in, he would be considered a fugitive from justice.



~jmo~

songline
04-10-2012, 11:04 PM
If she holds the news conference in Sanford, it's good news... if she holds the press conference in Jacksonville, it's bad news.

MOO
WHY? curious

Beyond Belief
04-10-2012, 11:04 PM
It sound more like, I think u call it "good faith'' type of call. Like I want to cooperate. Whether its sincere Idk. mooo

Gin
04-10-2012, 11:04 PM
Why would he tell the State Attorney that he was planning to flee? I would think that would be that last thing he would do. Unless he was looking for an insanity defense. :crazy:

I'm probably dipping my toe into the bizzaro world, but here goes:

It just occured to me that maybe on last week GZ's attorneys got a reliable hint from the SA's office that an indictment is coming. Maybe they were told to make sure their guy was in the local area this week. The attorneys get on the batphone to Z. By Sunday, Z's heard enough. He's not going to be ordered around. He does the mature thing, quits answering the phone.

The only thing I'm missing is when did GZ decide to call the SA for a chat. Maybe that happened last week, his attempt to "convince" them that they are wasting their time...move along...nothing to see here.
Of course, the SA's office passed on this crazy show.

Boytwnmom
04-10-2012, 11:04 PM
I can't ever see "aiding and abetting" without picturing the scene where the sheriff is talking about "aidin and abettin" being a big deal and the kid still thinks he was arrested for aidin and abettin the theft of a can of tuna.

Seriously, I doubt the SA would go after individual donors. I have wondered what the attorneys knew or should have known and what they have communicated to the SA. Did they get scared when they realized they didn't know where GZ was and if he needed to turn himself in they couldn't find him. Normally, the attorney makes representations to the SA that they will surrender within _ hours after they let him know so as to prevent a public arrest and scene and everyone takes that pretty seriously and it's a big deal if the attorney can't produce the suspect. Did the attorneys really ever know where GZ was to did they just take his or someone else's word for it? Were they not quite as careful as they should have been because they wanted the big juicy case and then had to quickly and publicly jump ship to try and avoid being blamed? I don't know either obviously but these people do make you think...




IF GZ goes on the run and people continue to give money too him via the website, can that be considered aiding and abetting?

annalia
04-10-2012, 11:05 PM
No, I think he said something on that written statement he shouldn't have and they want the statement thrown by claiming PTSD and head injury and stuff. IMO

Ahhh, makes sense, thanks.

JMHO

legalmania
04-10-2012, 11:06 PM
I don't think I understand your question. Let me try again.

George cannot take pay-pal donations under false pretenses. Saying he has a "defense fund" doesn't mean whatever George wants it to mean. It's a type of contract between himself and whoever gives the money that it's used for legitimate purposes.

Light bill, water bill, food at home for family, court fees, legal pads - Legitimate.

Airline tickets out of state? Not legit.

Food on the run? Not legit.

See what I mean? He can't just take money and run and call it "defense" when he doesn't even acknowledge his defense attorneys, it seems to me.

These guys set up a fund with George's father's name on it. Why? Because let's be realisitic ~ George may be going to jail.

I think they didn't put his wife's name on the account because they may all ready be having money troubles and they don't want it seized. OR, the father is just a control freak - who knows?

Bottom line - attorneys cannot set up bank accounts and take donations and not itemize where the money is going. That is not legal in any way, and it's unethical.

This prosecutor probably wants to charge with him something - manslaughter most likely.
But if he isn't in state, he can't be charged.

So I think this 72 hour thing means that she is giving him 72 hours to get back to Florida and be ready to turn himself in to authorities.

If George doesn't return to Florida, he cannot charged, right?

And if he cannot be charged and isn't talking to attorneys, then there is no "defense" going on. That was the point of the press conference today. He is gone, and his lawyers can't reach him. They can't defend him and they can't guarantee he will cooperate with authorities, so they cut off ties with him.

If people give him money for "defense" that means to pay his attorneys and for living expenses for his family. That's my understanding at least.

If George then takes that money and goes to another state or to Canada or Peru or wherever, then the money is being used to aid and abet a fugitive.

JMOO :cow: :moo:

He can be charged if he is not in the state, he just becomes a fugitive from justice. BBM

http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/Fugitive+from+Justice

Steft50
04-10-2012, 11:07 PM
Do we have any information that ANYBODY has seen GZ since the night of the killing? This story that he is hiding because of death threats is wearing kinda thin.

IIRC GZ packed up and left his condo the day after the shooting, I just can't remember where I read or heard this. IF that is the case, then didn't he leave way before there were any threats to his person?

daisy7
04-10-2012, 11:07 PM
Which doesn't apply here because they never filed, and there is a question as to whether there was any contract, was there a meeting of the minds?

There is no case, so I'm not sure why they would have had to file anything??

LolaMoon08
04-10-2012, 11:08 PM
WHY? curious

If she holds the conference in Sanford, I believe she will be announcing an arrest. If she holds the conference in Jacksonville, either there will be no arrest or NOW she may have to announce charges will be pressed, but they don't have him there to arrest him?

MOO

Peliman
04-10-2012, 11:10 PM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extradition_law_in_the_United_States#International _extradition

Yes, the heading under the page you linked is: Countries with diplomatic relations but no extradition treaty

The United States does not have formal diplomatic relations with Cuba and has maintained an embargo which makes it illegal for U.S. corporations to do business with Cuba.

Cuba–United States relations - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Despite Venezuela's stated desire for improved relations with the U.S. and its appeals for mutual respect, tensions between both nations are still high as of 2012 due to continuity in U.S. foreign policy under Bush and Obama[1].

{me}Venezuela does have diplomatic relations but some extraditions are denied, guess it depends.

United States–Venezuela relations - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

vlpate
04-10-2012, 11:11 PM
George is not going crazy. This is George and how he has always been. He called the cops on his landlord because the landlord wanted rent and George did not feel it was right because the house was being foreclosed on.

I've seen this before but I couldn't find the post when I looked for it. Just FYI, that call was George calling for a tenant at the community, not for himself. Someone posted the reports earlier, if you look you will see this on them :)

LolaMoon08
04-10-2012, 11:11 PM
If your man enough to carry a gun and shoot someone... you should be man enough to go sit in jail for a day or two until the Judge announces your bond and you get out of jail until a trial. It's not like he's going to be put in Gen. Pop!

Dr. Know?
04-10-2012, 11:13 PM
Wasn't it Chile that pushed Joran across the border to Peru to avoid the extridition process. Joran was scared too. Thought he'd be shot walking across. That was the coolest thing two countries could have done at the time, imo.

JSV
04-10-2012, 11:14 PM
Yeah right! What has she done so far? PLEASE!!

I was just posting the link . :)

legalmania
04-10-2012, 11:14 PM
I'll be honest because they have had weeks to get something done and people are sick of waiting. This also makes the prosecutor appear weak because George is playing hide and go seek with her! Who is in charge here? This is turning into even more of a sideshow carnival.

I can see that she might be giving George a chance to come back home and turn himself in, but it's really irritating that we have to go through three more days of waiting on a guy who believes he is totally innocent. If he will be exonerated, fine - let him prove it in court.

All anyone ever wanted in this case is for the system to work for George the way it works for everyone else in the country. He made a choice and he has to put on his big boy pants, stop hiding behind Daddy and Frank Taaffe, and pull himself together.


Most cases take time though. Sometimes it's years before someone is indicted. It's better that they have all the evidence and facts straight, instead of back peddling.

vlpate
04-10-2012, 11:15 PM
Which doesn't apply here because they never filed, and there is a question as to whether there was any contract, was there a meeting of the minds?
One of the talking heads said that Zimmerman was sent paperwork to sign the lawyer or lawyers on, but he never signed and mailed them back. JMO

annalia
04-10-2012, 11:15 PM
Wasn't it Chile that pushed Joran across the border to Peru to avoid the extridition process. Joran was scared too. Thought he'd be shot walking across. That was the coolest thing two countries could have done at the time, imo.

Yes, he was expelled from Chile, great move on their part and all within the law.

JMHO

grandmaj
04-10-2012, 11:16 PM
OK so what if the Prosecutor had taken his calls? Which we know she didn't. But she knowing he is(was at that point) represented no matter how loosely by Counsel. That would have put a great big cog in the wheel of the investigation right? Because she can't talk to him without his attorney present. So maybe he was trying to trip her up and cause the investigation to be challenged???? MOO

songline
04-10-2012, 11:16 PM
If she holds the conference in Sanford, I believe she will be announcing an arrest. If she holds the conference in Jacksonville, either there will be no arrest or NOW she may have to announce charges will be pressed, but they don't have him there to arrest him?

MOO

Thanks for the reply. Interesting.

Not so sure they dont have him, I think it is just for security because of the helicopter scene earlier last week.

LolaMoon08
04-10-2012, 11:19 PM
OK so what if the Prosecutor had taken his calls? Which we know she didn't. But she knowing he is(was at that point) represented no matter how loosely by Counsel. That would have put a great big cog in the wheel of the investigation right? Because she can't talk to him without his attorney present. So maybe he was trying to trip her up and cause the investigation to be challenged???? MOO

Yes! Great thought!

Beyond Belief
04-10-2012, 11:20 PM
Don't you usually sign the paper and give an attorney a retainer?

Beyond Belief
04-10-2012, 11:23 PM
OK so what if the Prosecutor had taken his calls? Which we know she didn't. But she knowing he is(was at that point) represented no matter how loosely by Counsel. That would have put a great big cog in the wheel of the investigation right? Because she can't talk to him without his attorney present. So maybe he was trying to trip her up and cause the investigation to be challenged???? MOO
You are one smart lady!!!

LolaMoon08
04-10-2012, 11:23 PM
There are 45 members here right now and no one is talking....

Is Everyone OKAY?? I think the Dr. Fessel put all our members into shock!

Velouria
04-10-2012, 11:24 PM
OK so what if the Prosecutor had taken his calls? Which we know she didn't. But she knowing he is(was at that point) represented no matter how loosely by Counsel. That would have put a great big cog in the wheel of the investigation right? Because she can't talk to him without his attorney present. So maybe he was trying to trip her up and cause the investigation to be challenged???? MOO

You know, before I read the content of his website, I would have thought "nah, even he wouldn't be so arrogant as to think he could outsmart the Special Prosecutor", but now I'm not so sure. There's something truly off about the way GZ is handling himself through all this.

Dr. Know?
04-10-2012, 11:25 PM
OK so what if the Prosecutor had taken his calls? Which we know she didn't. But she knowing he is(was at that point) represented no matter how loosely by Counsel. That would have put a great big cog in the wheel of the investigation right? Because she can't talk to him without his attorney present. So maybe he was trying to trip her up and cause the investigation to be challenged???? MOO

Could have been but think someone with more law expertise would advise him of that. I don't know GZ but just from what I've read, don't think he would think of that on his own. Tripping her up would mean someone new possibly? Just guessing.

HB Day Gmaj! xoxo

gitana1
04-10-2012, 11:25 PM
Can't wait til Hannity is subpoenaed.\

He will cite the journalist shield laws and refuse to give up any info.


JMO/IMO etc
I think it might go down like this: GZ/Daddy sue attorneys for saying "Bad stuff 'bout us." Attorneys counter sue for unpaid services rendered to the tune of at least $25,000.00. They will be able to account for every penny. It will be settled out of court, we will never hear about it again. Probably a draw.

So my websleuth friends know, I in no way justify the behavior of the attorneys today, I just see a situation where two wrongs equal they both quietly settle their differences.
GZ will have far more problems, the (I believe) coming indictment, trial, the likely civil suits....if they gave frequent flyer miles for court appearances he'll probably be at least platinum by the time this is over.

And...I guess it's possible the Fla bar may give the attorneys a slap on the wrist, but that will be about it, IMO. It's kinda an old boys club..and most of the old boys probably realize Z is a pain in the patootie.

Unless they had a signed retainer agreement prior to the representation, they cannot sue him for services rendered.


Only for a short time because in order to become someones attorney legally you have to file with the court. Notice of Representation.

There is no open case so they can't file a notice of representation. Also, a lawyer does not have to unless there has already been a court appearance and someone else has already appeared. So a lawyer can appear at the beginning of a case, and not file any kind of notice. They just have to appear.

Emeralgem
04-10-2012, 11:27 PM
If your man enough to carry a gun and shoot someone... you should be man enough to go sit in jail for a day or two until the Judge announces your bond and you get out of jail until a trial. It's not like he's going to be put in Gen. Pop!

As I see it a "real" man would not have stalked and killed an unarmed 17 year old so it stands to reason he is not man enough to accept any responsibility for his actions.. Why would anyone think he is man enough to accept going to jail even IF it is just for a few days until he is bonded out? JMHO

Reader
04-10-2012, 11:31 PM
He can be charged if he is not in the state, he just becomes a fugitive from justice. BBM

http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/Fugitive+from+Justice

Right, and usually what they do in Fl. is turn it over to the U.S. Marshalls to track him down and bring him in.

Since he's using a computer or phone for emails, texts, and these donation sites, it should be fairly easy to find him.

highflyer
04-10-2012, 11:32 PM
I'll be honest because they have had weeks to get something done and people are sick of waiting. This also makes the prosecutor appear weak because George is playing hide and go seek with her! Who is in charge here? This is turning into even more of a sideshow carnival.

I can see that she might be giving George a chance to come back home and turn himself in, but it's really irritating that we have to go through three more days of waiting on a guy who believes he is totally innocent. If he will be exonerated, fine - let him prove it in court.

All anyone ever wanted in this case is for the system to work for George the way it works for everyone else in the country. He made a choice and he has to put on his big boy pants, stop hiding behind Daddy and Frank Taaffe, and pull himself together.

People are sick of waiting? If they are going to charge him I'd like them to take as much time as they need to get things in order. Same way if they are not going to charge Zimmerman. This case will be torn apart either way.

csziggy
04-10-2012, 11:33 PM
I think I would rather be tried!
:floorlaugh:
I might visit some of those places but I wouldn't want to LIVE in any of them!

tehcloser
04-10-2012, 11:33 PM
There are 45 members here right now and no one is talking....

Is Everyone OKAY?? I think the Dr. Fessel put all our members into shock!

Well since you asked......no. My bird is screaming at the top of her lungs, my great dane is chasing my cat around the living room, and my husband just got new drum heads and is banging away so hard the windows are shaking....which come to think of it might be why the bird is screaming. :banghead: But Thanks for asking.

Gin
04-10-2012, 11:39 PM
\




Unless they had a signed retainer agreement prior to the representation, they cannot sue him for services rendered.

JMO/IMO, etc...
I think they certainly "can" sue him. I don't know whether they will choose to, or whether they will prevail. GZ never kept up his end of their verbal contract. The Attorneys sort of threw one last pitch today, when they stressed GZ never sent back paperwork per their verbal agreement. The attorneys feel they held up their end of the verbal contract, and whether they decide to drop it or go after him, time will tell.
They accumulated expenses during the "pro bono" portion of their representation. The agreement was I think, free until indictment. Meaning, they would continue to represent, start billing GZ the minute he is indicted. GZ sort of sneakily "fired" them, in essence denying them their agreed up pay that was probably coming soon.

And I'm not a fan of any of the three, just to go on record.

gitana1
04-10-2012, 11:40 PM
I think you have can have an attorney of record just to have one. Or I could be wrong but my stepfather has one for financial affairs. In Oregon.

Attorney of record means that the attorney's status as the legal representative of a person in a specific case, is on record with the court. They have to withdraw or substitute out to no longer be the attorney or the case has to be closed, with no chance of reopening it. So your stepdad's attorney may just be his personal attorney and not "of record" on a specific case.


Why would they lose their license if GZ left the country? What they did today was a heck of a lot worse than a client skipping town, IMO.

I agree. They have no liability if their client flees.


Okay... so the SA can't charge him if he isn't in Florida? Can they put out a warrant for his arrest?

If he fled... there are people kicking themselves hard right now, IMO.

Why can't they charge him? People are charged all the time, in absentia.

BTW, I believe there will definitely be charges. That's why the SA said she did not need a grand jury. I think a grand jury may have failed to indict, especially given the area. Then, she'd have problems charging him. This way, she controls the situation.

I also think she knew early on she would be charging him but wanted a solid case with a good investigation backing the charges.

I predict manslaughter charges. I also predict he will either walk or get a slap on the wrist or the charges will be dismissed. But I think one of the first two is more probable. I truly doubt this guy would do any real time for Trayvon's death, which saddens me.

Yoda
04-10-2012, 11:41 PM
Please delete if not allowed- I was searching for up to the minute information and noticed the tone of the results that were coming up seemed to be all about preparing for 'pandemonium' (TM's attorney) that will happen if GZ is not arrested. I then searched trayvon and riot on a social media search engine. Lots of People are openly saying they are planning to riot if they don't like the outcome. Can they get in trouble for this like those who announced beforehand in the London riots? And do you think LE is monitoring this? And is it time to head out of Florida?!!!!!
Tia

curl_in_progress
04-10-2012, 11:42 PM
I knew something was up when GZ's lawyers abruptly skipped out on that interview for CNN on Sunday.

I now think they were going to announce that GZ had been scheduled to meet/speak with the SP this week and say that a decision would be made about whether charges would be filed. But then he dropped off the radar, so they couldn't confidently go into an interview with CNN and answer questions. I think GZ panicked because he has to know at this point that his story just doesn't sound right. He's watching the news. He knows all the questions people have. And he knows the Feds and Angela Corey are investigating every little detail. So he knows he better have some damn good answers to their questions. I think he's so paranoid that he took advantage of the fact that he hasn't been charged and took off while he could legally do so. He probably thought that the interview was a ruse to get him to place where he could be taken into custody.

Prediction: We get the press conference from the SP tomorrow with an announcement that GZ will be arrested or he will not. It can't be anything else. AC has already said she wouldn't say anything more about the case, so I doubt it's just some little piece of information she wants to tell the public.

MOO

gitana1
04-10-2012, 11:44 PM
People are sick of waiting? If they are going to charge him I'd like them to take as much time as they need to get things in order. Same way if they are not going to charge Zimmerman. This case will be torn apart either way.

You're right. With such scrutiny, they need to take their time and make a rock solid decision.


JMO/IMO, etc...
I think they certainly "can" sue him. I don't know whether they will choose to, or whether they will prevail. GZ never kept up his end of their verbal contract. The Attorneys sort of threw one last pitch today, when they stressed GZ never sent back paperwork per their verbal agreement. The attorneys feel they held up their end of the verbal contract, and whether they decide to drop it or go after him, time will tell.
They accumulated expenses during the "pro bono" portion of their representation. The agreement was I think, free until indictment. Meaning, they would continue to represent, start billing GZ the minute he is indicted. GZ sort of sneakily "fired" them, in essence denying them their agreed up pay that was probably coming soon.

And I'm not a fan of any of the three, just to go on record.

You are right as well. I shouldn't have said they can't sue him. What I should have said is they won't win. Without a signed retainer agreement, they don't have a snowball's chance.

4Jacy
04-10-2012, 11:45 PM
Doing an investigation? Why does the three day window upset you?

Once again, too little, too late. What say you?

Adrienne37
04-10-2012, 11:47 PM
Attorney of record means that the attorney's status as the legal representative of a person in a specific case, is on record with the court. They have to withdraw or substitute out to no longer be the attorney or the case has to be closed, with no chance of reopening it. So your stepdad's attorney may just be his personal attorney and not "of record" on a specific case.



I agree. They have no liability if their client flees.



Why can't they charge him? People are charged all the time, in absentia.

BTW, I believe there will definitely be charges. That's why the SA said she did not need a grand jury. I think a grand jury may have failed to indict, especially given the area. Then, she'd have problems charging him. This way, she controls the situation.

I also think she knew early on she would be charging him but wanted a solid case with a good investigation backing the charges.

I predict manslaughter charges. I also predict he will either walk or get a slap on the wrist or the charges will be dismissed. But I think one of the first two is more probable. I truly doubt this guy would do any real time for Trayvon's death, which saddens me.

Thanks as always Gitana for your helpfulness. It's great having good lawyers on board!!!



~jmo~

grandmaj
04-10-2012, 11:56 PM
A little subpoena to PayPal will show where those funds are being pulled to. When you have money in a PayPal account you have to transfer it to another account to access it. Bank records will generally be a good trace. If he is indicted they could use that tool to find him if he doesn't surrender himself.

uvamerica
04-10-2012, 11:57 PM
I'll be honest because they have had weeks to get something done and people are sick of waiting. This also makes the prosecutor appear weak because George is playing hide and go seek with her! Who is in charge here? This is turning into even more of a sideshow carnival.

I can see that she might be giving George a chance to come back home and turn himself in, but it's really irritating that we have to go through three more days of waiting on a guy who believes he is totally innocent. If he will be exonerated, fine - let him prove it in court.

All anyone ever wanted in this case is for the system to work for George the way it works for everyone else in the country. He made a choice and he has to put on his big boy pants, stop hiding behind Daddy and Frank Taaffe, and pull himself together.



I agree, its been nearly 8 weeks since the shooting, the SA has been on the case for about 3 weeks.
It's not as though they have a case where the victim is unidentified, or they have to go out and find the shooter. They know the victim, the shooter, where, when, time, place etc. the crime occurred.
The reason I think its taken so long is the part of the investigation into SPD. That could be another case in itself . :moo:

legalmania
04-11-2012, 12:02 AM
\

He will cite the journalist shield laws and refuse to give up any info.



Unless they had a signed retainer agreement prior to the representation, they cannot sue him for services rendered.



There is no open case so they can't file a notice of representation. Also, a lawyer does not have to unless there has already been a court appearance and someone else has already appeared. So a lawyer can appear at the beginning of a case, and not file any kind of notice. They just have to appear.

Actually it's a Notice of Appearance a Notice of Representation is for a partial representation.

(e) Appearance of Attorney. An attorney may appear in a proceeding in any of the following ways:

(1) By serving and filing, on behalf of a party, the partys first pleading or paper in the proceeding.

(2) By substitution of counsel, but only by order of court and with written consent of the client, filed with the court. The court may condition substitution upon payment of, or security for, the substituted attorneys fees and expenses, or upon such other terms as may be just.

(3) By filing with the court and serving upon all parties a notice of appearance as counsel for a party that has already appeared in a proceeding pro se or as co-counsel for a party that has already appeared in a proceeding by non-withdrawing counsel.

http://www.joffelaw.com/state-rules/2-505.html

Isabelle
04-11-2012, 12:05 AM
Well since you asked......no. My bird is screaming at the top of her lungs, my great dane is chasing my cat around the living room, and my husband just got new drum heads and is banging away so hard the windows are shaking....which come to think of it might be why the bird is screaming. :banghead: But Thanks for asking.

Sounds like fun! A few minutes ago we had to shoo a very large unhappy possum from the orphan kitties food bowl (kitties were laying around watching the possum), then had to rescue my older cat from a neighbor's boat. Never a dull moment!

Wise Old Owl
04-11-2012, 12:05 AM
A little subpoena to PayPal will show where those funds are being pulled to. When you have money in a PayPal account you have to transfer it to another account to access it. Bank records will generally be a good trace. If he is indicted they could use that tool to find him if he doesn't surrender himself.
I read somewhere tonight (don't remember so I don't have a link - therefore - JMHO) that GZ Sr. setup the paypal stuff for the website. So, if dad is controlling the money - it would be his bank and stuff. Still wouldn't be able to find out where he is that way. But, the FBI don't play. They will find him - if they don't already know. If GZ went out of the country he would have had to use his passport - very easy for the feds to track. Not much they can do though - he is a free man and therefore free to travel.


JMHO

grandmaj
04-11-2012, 12:06 AM
Once again, too little, too late. What say you?

Maybe and this is just my opinion, there are a few loose ends to tie up, they want to quietly maybe make an arrest, to avoid someone else getting hurt. And/or they want to be sure that they have protective measures in place to protect the general public in the case of unrest?

I'm OK with waiting this prosecutor seems to think she needs this time for whatever reason. I think what I read was not 72 more hours, but within 72 hours. :)

curl_in_progress
04-11-2012, 12:06 AM
I hate that I've been to the site GZ set up, but when I looked at the page views counter, it was at less than 100. I'm sure the majority of those visitors were just the press, curious supporters of Tray and Frank Taafe.

No wonder he can claim that he will personally respond to each supporter. It will take him all of 30 seconds to complete.

MOO

Isabelle
04-11-2012, 12:07 AM
Please delete if not allowed- I was searching for up to the minute information and noticed the tone of the results that were coming up seemed to be all about preparing for 'pandemonium' (TM's attorney) that will happen if GZ is not arrested. I then searched trayvon and riot on a social media search engine. Lots of People are openly saying they are planning to riot if they don't like the outcome. Can they get in trouble for this like those who announced beforehand in the London riots? And do you think LE is monitoring this? And is it time to head out of Florida?!!!!!
Tia

I wouldn't plan a vacation in Florida anytime in the near future.

legalmania
04-11-2012, 12:08 AM
One of the talking heads said that Zimmerman was sent paperwork to sign the lawyer or lawyers on, but he never signed and mailed them back. JMO

Yes I heard the same thing, so did they have an agreement?

Isabelle
04-11-2012, 12:09 AM
I agree, its been nearly 8 weeks since the shooting, the SA has been on the case for about 3 weeks.
It's not as though they have a case where the victim is unidentified, or they have to go out and find the shooter. They know the victim, the shooter, where, when, time, place etc. the crime occurred.
The reason I think its taken so long is the part of the investigation into SPD. That could be another case in itself . :moo:

And trying to wade through whatever mess SPD made of the original investigation!

Desdemona
04-11-2012, 12:09 AM
IMO it is an unspeakable shame that the reaction to Trayvon's tragic death has come to this. In the absence of confirmed facts or accurate information, the media's handling and the public reaction to the issues surrounding Trayvon's death have spawned a wild morass of hype and rabid speculation IMO. The current state of public discourse, despite good intentions on the part of many, and disgustingly impure ones on the part of some, in my view does little to honor the life and memory of the young man who has died. I feel sick over it. JMO

I hope the public will finally see some real evidence and facts about what actually took place on that terrible night. It will be such a relief if the answers can fill in at least most of the blanks. My wish would be that the information revealed may satisfactorily justify whichever decision the Prosecutor makes in this case, in the interest of justice. As for gearing up to disrupt the public peace (riots) if the decision doesn't go a certain way, even in the absence of any proof that LE have acted in bad faith? Wow.

In the meantime, talking heads, attention junkies and inciters alike continue to be "unleashed" in the media to exploit Trayvon's case for their own ends. IMO this will continue no matter what, and most of it has very little to do with seeking the truth about what happened on Trayvon's last night on this earth. Sadly (IMO), even among truly caring and good people, it seems to me as if misinformation and rumor continue to proliferate, even on this forum to some degree. This is my opinion only, and I mean no offense or disrespect to anyone here. JMO

I am heartsick, but will await the Prosecutor's announcement with hope for some semblance of a dignified resolution. Here's to everyone who cares so much, and here's to the truth, whatever it is. No matter what happens, may Trayvon be remembered with love by his friends and family, and may he rest in peace.

JMO
:tears:
bfn

P.S. Lola, I for one was quiet because it took me forever to write this post.

highflyer
04-11-2012, 12:09 AM
Once again, too little, too late. What say you?


I posted this above.....

People are sick of waiting? If they are going to charge him I'd like them to take as much time as they need to get things in order. Same way if they are not going to charge Zimmerman. This case will be torn apart either way.

Yoda
04-11-2012, 12:13 AM
IMO it is an unspeakable shame that the reaction to Trayvon's tragic death has come to this. In the absence of confirmed facts or accurate information, the media's handling and the public reaction to the issues surrounding Trayvon's death have spawned a wild morass of hype and rabid speculation IMO. The current state of public discourse, despite good intentions on the part of many, and disgustingly impure ones on the part of some, in my view does little to honor the life and memory of the young man who has died. I feel sick over it. JMO

I hope the public will finally see some real evidence and facts about what actually took place on that terrible night. It will be such a relief if the answers can fill in at least most of the blanks. My wish would be that the information revealed may satisfactorily justify whichever decision the Prosecutor makes in this case, in the interest of justice. As for gearing up to disrupt the public peace (riots) if the decision doesn't go a certain way, even in the absence of any proof that LE have acted in bad faith? Wow.

In the meantime, talking heads, attention junkies and inciters alike continue to be "unleashed" in the media to exploit Trayvon's case for their own ends. IMO this will continue no matter what, and most of it has very little to do with seeking the truth about what happened on Trayvon's last night on this earth. Sadly (IMO), even among truly caring and good people, it seems to me as if misinformation and rumor continue to proliferate, even on this forum to some degree. This is my opinion only, and I mean no offense or disrespect to anyone here. JMO

I am heartsick, but will await the Prosecutor's announcement with hope for some semblance of a dignified resolution. Here's to everyone who cares so much, and here's to the truth, whatever it is. No matter what happens, may Trayvon be remembered with love by his friends and family, and may he rest in peace.

JMO
:tears:
bfn

P.S. Lola, I for one was quiet because it took me forever to write this post.

Your post needed much more then a like. Thank you.

itsreenw
04-11-2012, 12:15 AM
I've seen this before but I couldn't find the post when I looked for it. Just FYI, that call was George calling for a tenant at the community, not for himself. Someone posted the reports earlier, if you look you will see this on them :)
http://s3.documentcloud.org/documents/327330/pages/george-zimmerrman-911-call-history-p20-large.gif
I'm not familiar with FL police reports or codes, but I can't see where it says he's calling for a neighbor. It looks like he was at Kohl's when he called, not in his complex.

In any case, that is not a police matter, it's a civil matter...and if what you are saying is true, it's none of his business.

Karmady
04-11-2012, 12:17 AM
IMO it is an unspeakable shame that the reaction to Trayvon's tragic death has come to this. In the absence of confirmed facts or accurate information, the media's handling and the public reaction to the issues surrounding Trayvon's death have spawned a wild morass of hype and rabid speculation IMO. The current state of public discourse, despite good intentions on the part of many, and disgustingly impure ones on the part of some, in my view does little to honor the life and memory of the young man who has died. I feel sick over it. JMO

I hope the public will finally see some real evidence and facts about what actually took place on that terrible night. It will be such a relief if the answers can fill in at least most of the blanks. My wish would be that the information revealed may satisfactorily justify whichever decision the Prosecutor makes in this case, in the interest of justice. As for gearing up to disrupt the public peace (riots) if the decision doesn't go a certain way, even in the absence of any proof that LE have acted in bad faith? Wow.

In the meantime, talking heads, attention junkies and inciters alike continue to be "unleashed" in the media to exploit Trayvon's case for their own ends. IMO this will continue no matter what, and most of it has very little to do with seeking the truth about what happened on Trayvon's last night on this earth. Sadly (IMO), even among truly caring and good people, it seems to me as if misinformation and rumor continue to proliferate, even on this forum to some degree. This is my opinion only, and I mean no offense or disrespect to anyone here. JMO

I am heartsick, but will await the Prosecutor's announcement with hope for some semblance of a dignified resolution. Here's to everyone who cares so much, and here's to the truth, whatever it is. No matter what happens, may Trayvon be remembered with love by his friends and family, and may he rest in peace.

JMO
:tears:
bfn

P.S. Lola, I for one was quiet because it took me forever to write this post.

I could not agree more. I am trying to keep a cool head, reminding myself that I have a lot more information about this then the general public due to following it so closely so maybe I'm overeacting, and wondering whether or not that is a good or bad thing, or even healthy. I am dismayed in the extreme and also a little frightened of the long-term implications of this case. Very, very sad, divisive and about 10 million steps in the wrong direction for those who are not directly involved in the situation. Also, all jmoo

codecracker
04-11-2012, 12:18 AM
I hate that I've been to the site GZ set up, but when I looked at the page views counter, it was at less than 100. I'm sure the majority of those visitors were just the press, curious supporters of Tray and Frank Taafe.

No wonder he can claim that he will personally respond to each supporter. It will take him all of 30 seconds to complete.

MOO

don't think that counter works right....it said a 100 earlier looked around the site came back to the page it said 593 then I refreshed it and it went up to 700.

HMSHood
04-11-2012, 12:26 AM
Please delete if not allowed- I was searching for up to the minute information and noticed the tone of the results that were coming up seemed to be all about preparing for 'pandemonium' (TM's attorney) that will happen if GZ is not arrested. I then searched trayvon and riot on a social media search engine. Lots of People are openly saying they are planning to riot if they don't like the outcome. Can they get in trouble for this like those who announced beforehand in the London riots? And do you think LE is monitoring this? And is it time to head out of Florida?!!!!!
Tia

I am concerned that riots could happen, especially in Florida. To make matters worse, it is warmer than usual.

Los Angeles area in April 1992 had their second warmest April on record going back to 1895. The warmest April for that area was in 1989.

April 1992 Temperature
63.30F

Temperature and Precipitation Rankings
http://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/temp-and-precip/ranks.php

Climate Division
http://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/temp-and-precip/us-climate-divisions.php

legalmania
04-11-2012, 12:28 AM
Right, and usually what they do in Fl. is turn it over to the U.S. Marshalls to track him down and bring him in.

Since he's using a computer or phone for emails, texts, and these donation sites, it should be fairly easy to find him.

I don't think Zimmerman has what it takes to stay on the lam for a long time. I could be wrong but I just don't see it.

flourish
04-11-2012, 12:31 AM
Whew, finally able to watch the presser from today and my goodness wasn't that something?!?!
My thoughts as of right now and I am so not even caught up with the thread so I apologize in advance if this is...oddly placed in the thread:



I am offended by the lawyer's portrayal of TM as "slinking along" the backside of the buildings when in his next sentence refers to their being a sidewalk there and indicates (imo) that TM was walking on said sidewalk. And again, I'm asking, "Wth is so suspicious about walking on the back sidewalk?"
So twisted-- the "okay" from GZ re: the "we don't need you to do that" but some sort of indication that "was cut off from the 911 tape" that seems to imply that the 911 operator was like "well if you're not gonna follow him can you tell 'em where he went?" and then that's when he got out to get the address...still baffling me that we're supposed to believe that GZ, this overly-vigilant, volunteer neighborhood watch person, who lived in a community with less than a handful of street names in it, had to get out of the truck to get an address and then just somehow ended up back behind the buildings. It appears to me that the lawyer is implying that GZ was essentially doing the police department's job at the request of the 911 operator. But that got cut off of the 911 tape? :what: Oh, please.
Lawyer tries to tell the scenario about the "you gotta problem" and goes so far as to say he'd guess that GZ had grass stains on the bottom of his clothing (pants?) and TM wouldn't....wth? Yet he doesn't manage to mention the apparent lack of blood on GZ, except to tell us all to just forget the police department video.
And, he just alienated me in a non-case-related sense by saying that on that February Sunday, "most of us sat in church..." :sigh:
I'll repeat something I've said before: to me, "no justice, no peace" means that until this case is rightly processed through the justice system, there is no peace for young men to just walk down a sidewalk. That's how I've chosen to take it, because I do have a choice--I can choose to not be...incited to violence, but still hope for, and expect, a true and reasonable investigation here. *shrug*

legalmania
04-11-2012, 12:31 AM
I am concerned that riots could happen, especially in Florida.

I'm hoping as Americans we have moved passed that mentality. A lot of people didn't like the Anthony decision but we moved on, I hope they can do that with this case.

HMSHood
04-11-2012, 12:36 AM
I'm hoping as Americans we have moved passed that mentality. A lot of people didn't like the Anthony decision but we moved on, I hope they can do that with this case.

We can hope for it, but at the same time you cannot predict human behavior. Anything can trigger it. Also, the economy is really bad, even worse than in 1992 or 1965.

No one did riot when Crystal Mangum made rape accusations against Duke Lacrosse team in 2006. Of course, that case was weak from day one.

grandmaj
04-11-2012, 12:37 AM
http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2012-04-10/news/os-trayvon-martin-zimmerman-press-conference-20120410_1_press-conference-attorney-cnn

The family is deeply concerned that George Zimmerman is unaccounted for," he said. "They worry he may be a flight risk if he does, indeed, face charges."

Crump said the situation could have been avoided had police "just simply arrested him."

He has been in hiding. Uhrig and Sonner would not say Tuesday where he is but suggested that it is outside Florida.

Sonner and Uhrig said Zimmerman called Corey's office most likely because he wants to tell prosecutors his story.

Corey's office would not comment on Zimmerman's call, but a news release late Tuesday said Corey, the state attorney in Jacksonville, would hold a news conference about the case within 72 hours.

I don't know, anyone else think we won't hear about a possible arrest until after it has happened if it does?

Aedrys
04-11-2012, 12:37 AM
I'm waiting for Dog the Bounty Hunter to announce that he's going after GZ. I mean why not add him to this circus?

And did I read right? JB was talking about rational thought and tearing down the two attorneys who had the press conference today? I don't know whether to laugh or cry. How bad do you have to be when JB is calling you a bad lawyer?

Man, this is crazy. And we have to wait 72 more hours to hear from the special prosecutor! Craziness. But I have to stay strong and keep waiting. It's worth it if there's justice for Trayvon!

Rhyme & Reason
04-11-2012, 12:40 AM
I don't think I understand your question. Let me try again.

George cannot take pay-pal donations under false pretenses. Saying he has a "defense fund" doesn't mean whatever George wants it to mean. It's a type of contract between himself and whoever gives the money that it's used for legitimate purposes.

Light bill, water bill, food at home for family, court fees, legal pads - Legitimate.

Airline tickets out of state? Not legit.

Food on the run? Not legit.

See what I mean? He can't just take money and run and call it "defense" when he doesn't even acknowledge his defense attorneys, it seems to me.

These guys set up a fund with George's father's name on it. Why? Because let's be realisitic ~ George may be going to jail.

I think they didn't put his wife's name on the account because they may all ready be having money troubles and they don't want it seized. OR, the father is just a control freak - who knows?

Bottom line - attorneys cannot set up bank accounts and take donations and not itemize where the money is going. That is not legal in any way, and it's unethical.

This prosecutor probably wants to charge with him something - manslaughter most likely.
But if he isn't in state, he can't be charged.

So I think this 72 hour thing means that she is giving him 72 hours to get back to Florida and be ready to turn himself in to authorities.

If George doesn't return to Florida, he cannot charged, right?

And if he cannot be charged and isn't talking to attorneys, then there is no "defense" going on. That was the point of the press conference today. He is gone, and his lawyers can't reach him. They can't defend him and they can't guarantee he will cooperate with authorities, so they cut off ties with him.

If people give him money for "defense" that means to pay his attorneys and for living expenses for his family. That's my understanding at least.

If George then takes that money and goes to another state or to Canada or Peru or wherever, then the money is being used to aid and abet a fugitive.

JMOO :cow: :moo:

RE my bold above - Here in California they formally charged Ryan Jenkins with Jasmine Fiore's murder, while he was on the run (and before they found him dead in the motel room in Canada).

Link: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Jasmine_Fiore

Beyond Belief
04-11-2012, 12:41 AM
There may be riots in Florida, but I think they will be in isolated areas that are already plagued with an out of control society. The gangs will use any reason to murder and assault people.

tehcloser
04-11-2012, 12:41 AM
Grandma, I don't think we will hear until after he is arrested, unless.....he really is missing and it goes into a manhunt type thing. Which....I pray it does not, that would be a horrible mess.

legalmania
04-11-2012, 12:43 AM
I'm waiting for Dog the Bounty Hunter to announce that he's going after GZ. I mean why not add him to this circus?

And did I read right? JB was talking about rational thought and tearing down the two attorneys who had the press conference today? I don't know whether to laugh or cry. How bad do you have to be when JB is calling you a bad lawyer?

Man, this is crazy. And we have to wait 72 more hours to hear from the special prosecutor! Craziness. But I have to stay strong and keep waiting. It's worth it if there's justice for Trayvon!

The last time Dog went after someone he didn't have as a client he ended up in jail in Mexico, remember? I wonder from what time the 72hrs started? It should be down to about 65hrs by now right?

Rhyme & Reason
04-11-2012, 12:45 AM
Maybe she's only going to share some information, like information about the autopsy or some evidence tht she is able to share to help the public understand a little more clearly.

Although I'm hoping for an arrest, I'm kind of thinking this ^^^ is what's actually going to happen.

ThoughtFox
04-11-2012, 12:47 AM
There may be riots in Florida, but I think they will be in isolated areas that are already plagued with an out of control society. The gangs will use any reason to murder and assault people.

Seriously? I don't think it will only be gangs in an uproar. Lots of uproar to go around, and we had two upper middle class attorneys stirring the pot of confusion and making some outrageous remarks this afternoon. This is on them, too. :twocents:

Wise Old Owl
04-11-2012, 12:49 AM
There may be riots in Florida, but I think they will be in isolated areas that are already plagued with an out of control society. The gangs will use any reason to murder and assault people.
ITA - it will be sporadic and there will be pockets of violence - but I don't think it will be contained in Florida. There are economic factors all over this country and other big urban areas will see incidents - like some that have already been reported. But, most definitely the east coast of Florida will be the hardest hit

HMSHood
04-11-2012, 12:50 AM
ITA - it will be sporadic and there will be pockets of violence - but I don't think it will be contained in Florida. There are economic factors all over this country and other big urban areas will see incidents - like some that have already been reported. But, most definitely the east coast of Florida will be the hardest hit

Exactly. That is what I am thinking too. Like what happened in 1992.

SmoothOperator
04-11-2012, 01:08 AM
Moo.. but I see him committing suicide if/when charges come..

vlpate
04-11-2012, 01:11 AM
http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2012-04-10/news/os-trayvon-martin-zimmerman-press-conference-20120410_1_press-conference-attorney-cnn

The family is deeply concerned that George Zimmerman is unaccounted for," he said. "They worry he may be a flight risk if he does, indeed, face charges."

Crump said the situation could have been avoided had police "just simply arrested him."

He has been in hiding. Uhrig and Sonner would not say Tuesday where he is but suggested that it is outside Florida.

Sonner and Uhrig said Zimmerman called Corey's office most likely because he wants to tell prosecutors his story.

Corey's office would not comment on Zimmerman's call, but a news release late Tuesday said Corey, the state attorney in Jacksonville, would hold a news conference about the case within 72 hours.

I don't know, anyone else think we won't hear about a possible arrest until after it has happened if it does?
"Like two worried parents with a wayward child, George Zimmerman's lawyers stood puzzled in front of the Seminole County Courthouse on Tuesday and admitted they'd lost control."
They lost control? Clearly they never had control. The Martins and Crump have no need to know where Zimmerman is, as long as the SA and LE know where he is, that's all that matters. It's no wonder GZ isn't returning the calls of these two guys - with those kind of attorneys, who needs enemies. JMO

http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2012-04-10/news/os-trayvon-martin-zimmerman-press-conference-20120410_1_press-conference-attorney-cnn

AngelWings444
04-11-2012, 01:23 AM
Off topic - I thought I was going to die. Signed off of WS and couldn't figure out my password to here, and my email for two days. Have been able to read, but couldn't "like" or comment. :panic:

Today, this case just got crazy! Those attorney's are going to be in deep you know what.. Did they actually reference the Anthony's? :maddening: So much more to say but need to catch up. :seeya:

grandmaj
04-11-2012, 01:26 AM
Off topic - I thought I was going to die. Signed off of WS and couldn't figure out my password to here, and my email for two days. Have been able to read, but couldn't "like" or comment. :panic:

Today, this case just got crazy! Those attorney's are going to be in deep you know what.. Did they actually reference the Anthony's? :maddening: So much more to say but need to catch up. :seeya:

Oh you poor thing. At the bottom of the screen there is a Contact Us link. It may take a little while until an Admin who does registrations is on, but they can get you back in if you just provide them with an email address to
contact you. :)

claudicici
04-11-2012, 01:27 AM
I don't understand why people keep saying we don't have enough information,enough facts.IMO we have more than enough,more than in most cases.We have 911 calls,we have eye witnesses,we have a dead body !!! The only thing missing is TWO MINUTES.
IMO it doesn't take a genius to determine what happened in those minutes.All I know is IMO if Trayvon attacked GZ in those 2 minutes,if he initiated the physical confrontation it was because HE feared for his life.What other reason could there have been? GZ was following him for no reason,of course he was afraid,if he did attack him it would be his SYG right wouldn't it?

AngelWings444
04-11-2012, 01:31 AM
Oh you poor thing. At the bottom of the screen there is a Contact Us link. It may take a little while until an Admin who does registrations is on, but they can get you back in if you just provide them with an email address to
contact you. :)
I couldn't remember my email. It's one that I only use for here. :blushing:

I feel back at home. You all rock! Seriously. I love the debates and different opinions. It was weird looking from the outside in. :jail:

vlpate
04-11-2012, 01:33 AM
<snipped>

I'm not familiar with FL police reports or codes, but I can't see where it says he's calling for a neighbor. It looks like he was at Kohl's when he called, not in his complex.

In any case, that is not a police matter, it's a civil matter...and if what you are saying is true, it's none of his business.

Thank you for finding this. Whether or not this address belongs to Zimmerman was the question - whether or not it was his business is another matter. I'm perplexed myself why he is calling form a department store to report this. Nevertheless, it's not his house. Oddly, the address is very near the house where Traci Martin's girlfriend lives.

BEM: I looked at the address - 2621 Retreat View Circle - I am not familiar either, just deducing.

Dr. Know?
04-11-2012, 01:38 AM
I think with JB, JT, SG, MJ all coming out today via HLN, twitter, fb, other news sources, it's been overly sensationalized today and ambulance chasers are coming out of the woodwork. I'm with everyone that this just doesn't seem right and agree, a young man died due to someone being over zealous. I hope it's brought together correctly, factually & for the family of Trayvon & GZ's, asap.

Anyone have better links to dockets, warrants, arrests, than I do? I'm not finding much. Thanks!

itsreenw
04-11-2012, 01:59 AM
Does any of this sound familiar???

8/12/04 he called 911 because there was an old green truck carrying kids w/no car seats. He is following in a black Jetta. He gives a partial plate. Officer SO22 advises dispatch that he cannot catch up. GZ is still following the truck, giving directions to dispatch. He finally tells dispatch he is no longer following the vehicle. It appears to be a 4 minute phone call.

I believe it's because of actions like this that went unaddressed by LE, that GZ was disillusioned to feel like part of the force. He should've been told to stop following the vehicle.

08/20/04 at 4:50pm he called 911 to report a WM walking in the road carrying a bag. (another suspicious person walking from the store??) Subject was last seen by Blockbuster.

11/4/06 he called to report a red Toyota driving around the neighborhood real slow for 5 minutes looking at all the cars. (Just as TM was walking 'looking at all the houses'... if he knew the truck had been driving around for 5 minutes, was he following this person, too?)

mikeysmommom
04-11-2012, 02:02 AM
Just released by SP: announcement to come within next 72 hours!



They know where GZ is and IMO they are having the 72 hr announcement to say he will not be charged.Most likely giving the police and National Guard time to set up to control the out burst they expect and the violence that usually follows when cases like these happen.JMO

claudicici
04-11-2012, 02:10 AM
I am confident he will be charged.
I think it's a good sign that the prosecutor refused to speak to him,as she should have.

itsreenw
04-11-2012, 02:12 AM
<snipped>


Thank you for finding this. Whether or not this address belongs to Zimmerman was the question - whether or not it was his business is another matter. I'm perplexed myself why he is calling form a department store to report this. Nevertheless, it's not his house. Oddly, the address is very near the house where Traci Martin's girlfriend lives.

BEM: I looked at the address - 2621 Retreat View Circle - I am not familiar either, just deducing.Ya know, as much as I've been following this case, I don't know GZ's address. I don't know why I haven't researched that. It sure would help when I'm looking at maps.

Anyway, I perceived from the report that his landlord may have called him about the rent while he was out and about and he called the police to file a complaint about it. If IIRC, it said GZ would be there in 10 min. But why give that address??

I assumed it was regarding he and his landlord because nobody else was referenced in the comments.

Concerned Papa
04-11-2012, 02:13 AM
The nature of what little specific reference to the facts of this case made today by these attorneys speaks to either a remarkable lack of knowledge or a concentrated effort to manipulate public perception of what actually happened.

For example, in response to a question, one of these legal eagles started in on the 911 call, essentially saying words to the effect of "George was just going to the store and here's this guy slinking along behind the houses, so he called 911".

What a load of BS! Anyone who can listen or read knows that TM was walking down the street for the first 50% of a 4:07 long 911 call. He didn't set foot behind any town home in that development until he started "running" down the back sidewalk leading directly home at the 2:08 mark of the call.

He reiterated the ridiculous and completely false version of events relayed by GZ's father on the Hannity interview also.

If this deal were to go to court tomorrow, a first year law student could demolish whatever credibility in the legal profession he's supposed to have. I think these attorney's have been way more interested in getting face time in the media and being the mouthpiece for Zimmerman than they are in learning a fraction of this case that any WS member has cared enough to learn.

AngelWings444
04-11-2012, 02:14 AM
IMO - the State's Prosecutor gave GZ 72 hour notice to turn himself in. According to his former attorney's, he is not in the state of Florida. Pretty sure the FBI has GZ on their radar. This all started with the announcement there would not be a grand jury. Seems like some test results might be in. Don't DNA and toxicology test results usually take about 6 weeks?

I feel sorry for the state of Florida, another circus has arrived, and I think they are there to stay. The cast of character's are just so, well...unusual. Just when I got back into shape after the Anthony debacle. :popcorn: :drink:

JMO, MOO, and IMO

Wise Old Owl
04-11-2012, 02:14 AM
I can't for the life of me figure out just what he was going to say to her? What kind of mood was he in? Was he going to be beligerent? Defiant? Sorry? Accept the responsibility? Just what did he have planned to tell her? Boy would I love to hear THAT tape.


JMHO


ETA: I was thinking about GZ calling Corey - it was in my brain - just didn't come out through my fingers. lol

claudicici
04-11-2012, 02:19 AM
oh,just read the e-mail he wrote to apply for his citizen watch position or whatever it was.IMO his conversation with her would have been a lot like that.No way he feels remorse or guilt.

Storm
04-11-2012, 02:23 AM
I am concerned that riots could happen, especially in Florida. To make matters worse, it is warmer than usual.

Los Angeles area in April 1992 had their second warmest April on record going back to 1895. The warmest April for that area was in 1989.

April 1992 Temperature
63.30F

Temperature and Precipitation Rankings
http://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/temp-and-precip/ranks.php

Climate Division
http://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/temp-and-precip/us-climate-divisions.php

Then Cincinnati will riot ...we riot (as a city) way too often and unfortunately, it's often about police brutality..let's pray that cool heads prevail ^i^

mdana
04-11-2012, 02:24 AM
Although I'm hoping for an arrest, I'm kind of thinking this ^^^ is what's actually going to happen.

Isn't the toxicology report due this week? I have thought this is more likely, unless it will not be made public.

TorisMom003
04-11-2012, 02:26 AM
I can't for the life of me figure out just what he was going to say to her? What kind of mood was he in? Was he going to be beligerent? Defiant? Sorry? Accept the responsibility? Just what did he have planned to tell her? Boy would I love to hear THAT tape.


JMHO


ETA: I was thinking about GZ calling Corey - it was in my brain - just didn't come out through my fingers. lol

WOO, I personally feel that he was going to try and BS his way out of the situation. Tell her all of the things that he has been going over in his mind that sounds resonable and plausible for a self-defense claim. Heck, it worked with the majority of the SPD, why not try it on the special prosecutor as well. I doubt very seriously that sorry has ever crossed his mind. From his previous actions he is always without fault. So why would he be sorry?

MOO

frenchvixen
04-11-2012, 02:34 AM
It's funny that FT keeps reverting back to the police reports when he is asked questions. Yet, he confidently states how he believed TM ended up on his face after being shot. What he said made absolutely no sense and now I am sure that GZ shot TM while TM was standing. First of all, if TM was on top of GZ his screams would not have been so clear. He probably broke free of the fight and stood up to scream loudly for help and then GZ shot him.. TM supposedly said to GZ, "you got me" or "you shot me".. held his chest in disbelief (this is my input now) and then fell to the ground face down with his hands underneath him. There is no way that TM would be on top of GZ get shot in the chest and then end up on his face. I don't care how FT or GZ's attorneys or GZ spins it it is not possible.

I keep having a recurring thought that TM's mom dreams about him and the dream he tells her exactly what happened :-(

Rhyme & Reason
04-11-2012, 02:34 AM
Isn't the toxicology report due this week? I have thought this is more likely, unless it will not be made public.

It seems in other cases anyway, the toxicology report comes back in about 6 weeks. So that would be about right.

mdana
04-11-2012, 02:35 AM
I don't understand why people keep saying we don't have enough information,enough facts.IMO we have more than enough,more than in most cases.We have 911 calls,we have eye witnesses,we have a dead body !!! The only thing missing is TWO MINUTES.
IMO it doesn't take a genius to determine what happened in those minutes.All I know is IMO if Trayvon attacked GZ in those 2 minutes,if he initiated the physical confrontation it was because HE feared for his life.What other reason could there have been? GZ was following him for no reason,of course he was afraid,if he did attack him it would be his SYG right wouldn't it?

Due to SYG there is a higher threshold to arrest, and if the prosecution loses they are liable for all costs incurred by the defendant. The only cases I know of in Florida that have been brought to trial almost always have an eyewitness or video of the killing that contradicts the accused's statements. Even in many of those cases the accused was not convicted.

Since its passage in 2005, the "stand your ground'' law has protected people who have pursued another, initiated a confrontation and then used deadly force to defend themselves. Citing the law, judges have granted immunity to killers who put themselves in danger, so long as their pursuit was not criminal, so long as the person using force had a right to be there, and so long as he could convince the judge he was in fear of great danger or death.

http://www.tampabay.com/news/publicsafety/stand-your-ground-law-protects-those-who-go-far-beyond-that-point/1222930

mdana
04-11-2012, 02:48 AM
It seems in other cases anyway, the toxicology report comes back in about 6 weeks. So that would be about right.

I remember reading or hearing they expected results by April 14th, unless I am confusing that with some other deadline.

mdana
04-11-2012, 03:01 AM
WOO, I personally feel that he was going to try and BS his way out of the situation. Tell her all of the things that he has been going over in his mind that sounds resonable and plausible for a self-defense claim. Heck, it worked with the majority of the SPD, why not try it on the special prosecutor as well. I doubt very seriously that sorry has ever crossed his mind. From his previous actions he is always without fault. So why would he be sorry?

MOO

Did it?

I find it very odd reporting by the media to state the lead investigator wanted to press charges, when it was SPD that wanted to file charges, but they were overuled by the prosecutor's office. They don't state that Harry Reid wanted a certain bill that was vetoed by the President when a majority of Democrats supported it.

itsreenw
04-11-2012, 03:04 AM
There may be riots in Florida, but I think they will be in isolated areas that are already plagued with an out of control society. The gangs will use any reason to murder and assault people.

Apparently, so does GZ. So did these upstanding citizens...
http://www.cnn.com/2012/04/10/us/oklahoma-shootings/index.html?hpt=hp_bn1

Perhaps this discussion should be carried over to the Trayvon Martin Forum where 'anything goes'.

gitana1
04-11-2012, 03:05 AM
Please delete if not allowed- I was searching for up to the minute information and noticed the tone of the results that were coming up seemed to be all about preparing for 'pandemonium' (TM's attorney) that will happen if GZ is not arrested. I then searched trayvon and riot on a social media search engine. Lots of People are openly saying they are planning to riot if they don't like the outcome. Can they get in trouble for this like those who announced beforehand in the London riots? And do you think LE is monitoring this? And is it time to head out of Florida?!!!!!
Tia

I'm hoping this does not happen. People have been worried about riots in this case from day one, yet we have had several, large protests with no hint of violence.

Nevertheless, HMShood mentioned the heat and the connection to riots, plus someone mentioned the economy and that is a bad combo.


Actually it's a Notice of Appearance a Notice of Representation is for a partial representation.

(e) Appearance of Attorney. An attorney may appear in a proceeding in any of the following ways:

(1) By serving and filing, on behalf of a party, the partys first pleading or paper in the proceeding.

(2) By substitution of counsel, but only by order of court and with written consent of the client, filed with the court. The court may condition substitution upon payment of, or security for, the substituted attorneys fees and expenses, or upon such other terms as may be just.

(3) By filing with the court and serving upon all parties a notice of appearance as counsel for a party that has already appeared in a proceeding pro se or as co-counsel for a party that has already appeared in a proceeding by non-withdrawing counsel.

http://www.joffelaw.com/state-rules/2-505.html

Got ya'. In California, the new attorney can just show up in a criminal case. That's their appearance. But, in any state, no notice of any kind can be filed until their is a case that has been opened.


I am confident he will be charged.
I think it's a good sign that the prosecutor refused to speak to him,as she should have.

he wanted to talk to her? What have I missed?


Then Cincinnati will riot ...we riot (as a city) way too often and unfortunately, it's often about police brutality..let's pray that cool heads prevail ^i^

Man, I think we've had more riots over sports than over racial issues, in our country!

AngelWings444
04-11-2012, 03:07 AM
I thought it was a bit beyond the pale too, but then I noticed halfway through the mocking thing he pulled himself back in and did the rest of the quoting in normal voice.

But I actually thought it was quite funny. It's refreshing when people don't act all completely PC and in control all the time.

Like GZ not being in control right now, nor the night Trayvon was killed. I find nothing funny about this press conference, the attorney's lack of regard for the law, violating attorney client confidentiality, mocking the victim's family, mocking anyone supporting justice for Trayvon, mocking the congresswoman etc..

An unarmed 17 year old is dead, there is nothing funny or amusing. I believe these "lawyers" are about to find out the extent of their lack of professionalism very soon. Then, I remember JB and his cohorts, all getting away with similar unethical behavior. It's appalling to our justice system.

Justice should be served in a court of law, not by Yoo Hoo lawyers making arses out of themselves. As far as I know, since the beginning, the Martin family has only asked for a reasonable investigation into the death of their unarmed child.

JMO, MOO and way, past my bedtime.

frenchvixen
04-11-2012, 03:17 AM
I don't understand why people keep saying we don't have enough information,enough facts.IMO we have more than enough,more than in most cases.We have 911 calls,we have eye witnesses,we have a dead body !!! The only thing missing is TWO MINUTES.
IMO it doesn't take a genius to determine what happened in those minutes.All I know is IMO if Trayvon attacked GZ in those 2 minutes,if he initiated the physical confrontation it was because HE feared for his life.What other reason could there have been? GZ was following him for no reason,of course he was afraid,if he did attack him it would be his SYG right wouldn't it?

Very well said, madam. I think many of us have lost track of the matter at hand. I feel in my heart that Trayvon was done an injustice when he lost his life. I feel he should be alive today. It just crossed my mind that if I see GZ in Florida I can kill him b/c I know that he has killed before and I feel threatened by his presence. I believe this falls under SYG, doesn't it?

fran
04-11-2012, 03:19 AM
Gonna lock up for the night. See you all tomorrow.

fran

:seeya:

Rhyme & Reason
04-11-2012, 03:19 AM
I remember reading or hearing they expected results by April 14th, unless I am confusing that with some other deadline.

It doesn't ring a bell with me, but I certainly haven't read or heard everything in this case.

LaLaw2000
04-11-2012, 05:58 AM
Good morning!

Well, I wonder what today will bring.

suzihawk
04-11-2012, 06:15 AM
Sonner and Uhrig live on CNN this morning. They sure are making a lot of media appearances considering they no longer represent GZ. Still trying the case.

mysteriew
04-11-2012, 06:30 AM
I haven't been following this case, but just occasionally reading the highlights. Imagine my surprise to learn that "Mr. Stand Your Ground" has left the state.

I guess that is what happens when you learn armed men are out there looking for you.

waltzingmatilda
04-11-2012, 06:54 AM
The 'dynamic duo' (gz's former attys) will be on TODAY this morning I just heard.

Good Morning All!

Elley Mae
04-11-2012, 07:00 AM
http://miami.cbslocal.com/2012/04/10/george-zimmermans-attorneys-withdraw-from-case/

Uhrig said that they had been trying to set up a meeting between Zimmerman and the special prosecutor’s office investigating the shooting of Trayvon Martin.

When special prosecutors asked Zimmerman if he had lawyers, he said he only had legal advisers, not a lawyer, according to Uhrig and Sonner.

“I’m not sure what the distinction is, but in his mind there’s a distinction,” Uhrig said.

Wonder why he is confused about that, seems as a lawyer he would know the difference between legal advise and retaining a lawyer. jmo

Elley Mae
04-11-2012, 07:10 AM
I do like that she is not driven by emotion but by Law.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2011/10/19/boy-12-charged-with-murder-as-adult-in-florida/

Yes, I have compassion for Cristian Fernandez, but it's not my job to forgive,” State Attorney Angela Corey said. “It's my job to follow the law."

suzihawk
04-11-2012, 07:12 AM
I am confident he will be charged.
I think it's a good sign that the prosecutor refused to speak to him,as she should have.

I sure hope you're right. I'd like to have the same confidence but I'm still reeling from the let down from another certain case in Florida. I'm keeping my fingers crossed, though.

Justice for Trayvon.

waltzingmatilda
04-11-2012, 07:16 AM
The only thing in the TODAY interview that was new to me was the attys said that originally when AC wanted to speak to GZ, he exercized his right to remain silent. Then he went rogue and called her behind their backs.(paraphrased)

I'll post a link once it is posted on the TODAY site.

wm

ETA There is a really cute pic of Tray that I've never seen before at this link. He is wearing a flight suit and standing next to an airplane inside an airplane hangar. A vid of yesterday's presser is included too.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2127934/Trayvon-Martin-shooting-George-Zimmermans-legal-team-drops-losing-contact-him.html

LiveLaughLuv
04-11-2012, 07:30 AM
Prosecutor announces 72 hour timeline for announcement in Trayvon Martin case
more:
http://www.thegrio.com/news/prosecut...artin-case.php


Sean Hannity Spoke To George Zimmerman Off The Record, Former Lawyers Say
The Huffington Post | By Jack Mirkinson Posted: 04/10/2012 4:47 pm Updated: 04/10/2012 6:04 pm

Trayvon Martin shooter George Zimmerman spoke to Fox News' Sean Hannity off the record, his now-former attorneys alleged in a remarkable press conference on Tuesday. (Watch video of the statement above; Hannity comments begin at 3:12.)

Zimmerman has made no public appearances and given no interviews, and has lost so much contact with his lawyers that they gathered the media in Florida on Sunday to announce that they were dropping him as a client.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/0...n_1416080.html

This is another reason the attorney's dropped GZ as a client...

LiveLaughLuv
04-11-2012, 07:34 AM
http://miami.cbslocal.com/2012/04/10/george-zimmermans-attorneys-withdraw-from-case/

Uhrig said that they had been trying to set up a meeting between Zimmerman and the special prosecutors office investigating the shooting of Trayvon Martin.

When special prosecutors asked Zimmerman if he had lawyers, he said he only had legal advisers, not a lawyer, according to Uhrig and Sonner.

Im not sure what the distinction is, but in his mind theres a distinction, Uhrig said.

Wonder why he is confused about that, seems as a lawyer he would know the difference between legal advise and retaining a lawyer. jmo

Could be the old adage, only guilty people hire attorneys....:what:

Also, never meeting in person, no papers signed...

It also appears the attorney's claim GZ is not following their advice. They have been trying to set up a meeting with ACory...he invoked his right to remain silent, then went behind their backs and contacted the Special Prosecutor..GZ just doesn't like to follow directions, it appears he beats to his own drum...

ACory has given a 72 hour deadline to announce whether to charge or not...

CarolinaMoon
04-11-2012, 07:44 AM
:moo:I'll admit I fell asleep on the thread last night. Too much going on here. The fact that the ex-attorneys are still speaking out means they haven't received a call from GZ yet. I have a sneaking suspicion there may already be a warrant and the plan to meet was really meant that GZ would be turning himself in. MHO

Marshmallow
04-11-2012, 07:51 AM
it makes no sense that Mr Zimmerman's not-my-attys are still all over my tv and still stirring things up. In some ways it seems to me that they want a riot type situation

waltzingmatilda
04-11-2012, 07:55 AM
:moo:I'll admit I fell asleep on the thread last night. Too much going on here. The fact that the ex-attorneys are still speaking out means they haven't received a call from GZ yet. I have a sneaking suspicion there may already be a warrant and the plan to meet was really meant that GZ would be turning himself in. MHO

GZ's attys sent him a message during the TODAY interview that went something like this...

'George, if you need us, call us. If you don't need us, call us and let us know that too.'

So I guess they haven't heard from him.

moo

wm

LambChop
04-11-2012, 07:57 AM
I can't for the life of me figure out just what he was going to say to her? What kind of mood was he in? Was he going to be beligerent? Defiant? Sorry? Accept the responsibility? Just what did he have planned to tell her? Boy would I love to hear THAT tape.


JMHO


ETA: I was thinking about GZ calling Corey - it was in my brain - just didn't come out through my fingers. lol

BBM: I don't know. Maybe he got some "pointers" from Taaffe??? :floorlaugh::floorlaugh:

LiveLaughLuv
04-11-2012, 08:05 AM
I don't think Zimmerman has what it takes to stay on the lam for a long time. I could be wrong but I just don't see it.


http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2012-04-10/news/os-trayvon-martin-zimmerman-press-conference-20120410_1_press-conference-attorney-cnn

The family is deeply concerned that George Zimmerman is unaccounted for," he said. "They worry he may be a flight risk if he does, indeed, face charges."

Crump said the situation could have been avoided had police "just simply arrested him."

He has been in hiding. Uhrig and Sonner would not say Tuesday where he is but suggested that it is outside Florida.

Sonner and Uhrig said Zimmerman called Corey's office most likely because he wants to tell prosecutors his story.

Corey's office would not comment on Zimmerman's call, but a news release late Tuesday said Corey, the state attorney in Jacksonville, would hold a news conference about the case within 72 hours.

I don't know, anyone else think we won't hear about a possible arrest until after it has happened if it does?


Grandma, I don't think we will hear until after he is arrested, unless.....he really is missing and it goes into a manhunt type thing. Which....I pray it does not, that would be a horrible mess.

Last night his former attorney's alluded to the fact that he is in the United States but wouldn't say where. Then I think, how would they really know? GZ is not returning their phone calls or texts messages. They also had said, if there would be charges brought against GZ, there would be no manhunt, that he would turn himself in but does anyone know where he is?

I also wonder if the SPD told him they were still investigating and to not leave the state of Florida...but I don't think it would matter to GZ for it appears he doesn't follow directions. He was told not to speak with anyone, as most defense attorney's would tell their clients but he contacted Sean Hannity off the record and calls the Special Prosecutors office as they said, behind their backs and also this website...I don't believe he had their permission to do that...



Sean Hannity Spoke To George Zimmerman Off The Record, Former Lawyers Say
The Huffington Post | By Jack Mirkinson Posted: 04/10/2012 4:47 pm Updated: 04/10/2012 6:04 pm

Trayvon Martin shooter George Zimmerman spoke to Fox News' Sean Hannity off the record, his now-former attorneys alleged in a remarkable press conference on Tuesday. (Watch video of the statement above; Hannity comments begin at 3:12.)

Zimmerman has made no public appearances and given no interviews, and has lost so much contact with his lawyers that they gathered the media in Florida on Sunday to announce that they were dropping him as a client.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/0...n_1416080.html


Since he's lost contact with his lawyers, how can they truly know his whereabouts?

I must say Wise Old Owl had insight that this might come to be..yesterday this thought came to his mind..

I truly wonder if he flew the coup...

I only pray that LE know where he is and can find him at a moments notice...:please:

waltzingmatilda
04-11-2012, 08:11 AM
Today video.

msnbc.com Video Player

Sorry, this is Cary Sanders peice which led up to the attys interview. The attys interview hasn't been posted yet. Will add link when available.

LiveLaughLuv
04-11-2012, 08:26 AM
“I assure you, the facts will come to light,” he wrote on www.therealgeorgezimmerman.XXX

Under a section titled “My Race,” he quoted Thomas Paine: “The world is my country, all mankind are my brethren, and to do good is my religion.”

He also paraphrased a famous quotation from philosopher Edmund Burke: “The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men to do nothing.”

The site went up hours after special prosecutor Angela Corey revealed she would not bring the racially charged case before a grand jury.

That means Zimmerman will not face a first-degree murder rap for shooting the unarmed Martin on Feb. 26. The top charge requires grand jury action and is reserved for premeditated crimes.

Zimmerman could face lesser charges such as second-degree murder and manslaughter.

Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/trayvon-martin-case-special-prosecutor-call-grand-jury-article-1.1058605#ixzz1rjYhnhTU


So, he's the good man who is triumphing over evil....:maddening:

There is his mentality...he truly believes he is doing good by eliminating the ones he perceives as evil...this dude is scary...if he's not arrested he can keep his CWP, no one will be safe...:what:

I believe GZ is the problem not the solution as he might believe himself to be..He is one dangerous guy with a violent streak that will not simply go away after this...I believe it might worsen if he's allowed to keep his weapon and that CWP..I would love to see a psychological done on this guy..he's a danger to anyone near or around him...:moo:

JennyMominRI
04-11-2012, 08:27 AM
It's funny that FT keeps reverting back to the police reports when he is asked questions. Yet, he confidently states how he believed TM ended up on his face after being shot. What he said made absolutely no sense and now I am sure that GZ shot TM while TM was standing. First of all, if TM was on top of GZ his screams would not have been so clear. He probably broke free of the fight and stood up to scream loudly for help and then GZ shot him.. TM supposedly said to GZ, "you got me" or "you shot me".. held his chest in disbelief (this is my input now) and then fell to the ground face down with his hands underneath him. There is no way that TM would be on top of GZ get shot in the chest and then end up on his face. I don't care how FT or GZ's attorneys or GZ spins it it is not possible.

I keep having a recurring thought that TM's mom dreams about him and the dream he tells her exactly what happened :-(

IF TM was shot, while on top of GZ ,as the attorneys said yesterday I would think that GZ would have a lot of blood on him

LiveLaughLuv
04-11-2012, 08:31 AM
George Zimmermans lawyers withdraw from case, saying client out of contact
He contacted special prosecutor without consulting attorneys, they say
Comments (19)

By Lisa Lucas AND Bill Hutchinson / NEW YORK DAILY NEWS
Tuesday, April 10, 2012, 6:48 PM

George Zimmermans attorneys withdrew from his case Tuesday saying the neighborhood watchman has bolted from Florida and wont pick up his phone.

In a stunning news conference, defense lawyers Hal Uhrig and Craig Sonner revealed theyve lost contact with Zimmerman, who fatally shot unarmed teenager Trayvon Martin.

You can stop looking in Florida, you can look much further away from that, said Uhrig when asked about Zimmermans whereabouts. The lawyers said their former client is still in the country.


Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/george-zimmerman-lawyers-withdraw-case-client-contact-article-1.1059438#ixzz1rjakEsHi


:what:

OH MY....he flew out of Florida, after his website was launched...does that mean he took the money and ran??? Oh, oooooo not looking good...:jail:

waltzingmatilda
04-11-2012, 08:43 AM
Attys interview on TODAY.

http://video.today.msnbc.msn.com/today/47014313#47014313

BetteDavisEyes
04-11-2012, 08:47 AM
Detroit clergy, activists rally over Trayvon case

Clergy, activists hold rally at Detroit church over Trayvon Martin killing, teacher's firing

Published On: Apr 10 2012 07:55:03 PM EDT Updated On: Apr 10 2012 07:57:31 PM EDT

http://www.clickondetroit.com/news/Detroit-clergy-activists-rally-over-Trayvon-case/-/1719418/10450416/-/q23qrs/-/index.html

Good morning, peeps. I had to get away from the case after Nancy Grace last night and have not seen any of this morning's shows with the ex-lawyers for GZ. I skimmed the overnight posts and will check in throughout the day.

LambChop
04-11-2012, 08:47 AM
I do think the attorney's attempts yesterday were to get GZ to call them. To show him they still believe in him and want him to contact them. WE, don't like what they had to say but GZ might realize he needs to contact them and that they do support him. Although I think the 7-11 and Coke thing was a little much. jmo

Concerned Papa
04-11-2012, 08:49 AM
This entire deal with yesterday's press conference is mentally insulting.

Haven't talked to your poor, downtrodden, unjustly accused client in a day and a half........so you drop him?

There's something else at play here. You can count on it.

Marshmallow
04-11-2012, 08:57 AM
I just went and checked out Mr Zimmerman's web site and in my nonprofessional opinion he stopped talking to his attys because they were setting up a donation acct and were going to control it. He sounds almost childishy about it. I think he sees himself as a hero andcan't get that only a handful agree. I think he's dangerous, I see him losing it again and harming another wrongdoer(in his eyes). I still think he thinks himself smarter than LE and can't understand why they never saw it too.

grammieto5
04-11-2012, 09:01 AM
IF TM was shot, while on top of GZ ,as the attorneys said yesterday I would think that GZ would have a lot of blood on him

I thought the same thing when I saw how clean he and his clothes looked when he was being escorted by the police.


Jenny I read your blog. What an inspiration you are :-)

Sensei
04-11-2012, 09:06 AM
Why the 72 hours? That's what I want to know? What do they need in the next 72 hours that they don't have now? George?

perhpas she is going to be a bit more compassionate and will let Trayvons family know the entire results of her investigation so that they do not have to hear it all on the spot, Just a thought IMO JMHO and stuff.

At least that is what I would hope.

passionflower
04-11-2012, 09:07 AM
very interesting indeed, very strict and 'negative' ????
I don't even want to think about what is happening.
Is she expecting allot of trouble?
Where is GZ????

LynnM
04-11-2012, 09:08 AM
This entire deal with yesterday's press conference is mentally insulting.

Haven't talked to your poor, downtrodden, unjustly accused client in a day and a half........so you drop him?

There's something else at play here. You can count on it.

At first I thought it must be a desperate attempt at CYA because they didn't want to be blamed if George talked to the prosecutor and caused damage to his defense and/or because they couldn't produce George in the event of an imminent arrest since they don't know exactly where he is. Their talk about his instability seemed to support that.

Now, however, it seems like they are still trying to woo him back so I wonder if George isn't in talks with a very high profile attorney and they are upset because he didn't sign the contract with them.

annalia
04-11-2012, 09:10 AM
GZ's attys sent him a message during the TODAY interview that went something like this...

'George, if you need us, call us. If you don't need us, call us and let us know that too.'
So I guess they haven't heard from him.

moo

wm

BBM

And they need to do this on national tv? They couldn't just leave him a voicemail? Send him an email? Use his new website to send him a message?

It's just too odd that they claimed they haven't heard from GZ when they said the last time they spoke to him was on Sunday, they had their big media extravaganza on Tuesday, so it was one day that they didn't hear from him?

They were trying to distance themselves and CYA for a reason.
Seems like the biggest compliant last night, among people on the various shows, was that they threw their client under the bus. Attorneys should never divulge things that they divulged about GZ, makes one think that they needed to protect themselves from something.

Or they just needed the media spotlight one more time so they can get more future media gigs.


JMHO

cityslick
04-11-2012, 09:11 AM
I will agree with Gregaros that the lawyers talking about GZ's mental state is very poor form. For two people that are seemingly supposed to defend him, they did more harm to his case yesterday than anything. Like Toobin on CNN said, why would they even need to call a presser, they could of just called the SP discretely and said they are off the case.

It begs the question, how much were they ever 'his' lawyers? Did GZ actually retain them? When they were going on these talk shows, were they speaking what he wanted them to say or were they just going off what they read in the media, similar to if one of us got up there, said we were his lawyer and started talking?

Something is not right, and this goes for the website too. I'm beginning to trust less and less what these two lawyers say, to the point where I'm starting to question how connected they ever were to GZ. Is the website truly GZ? We've only heard from them that it is.

passionflower
04-11-2012, 09:12 AM
http://latino.foxnews.com/latino/news/2012/04/11/george-zimmerman-is-isolated-and-stressed-attorneys-say/
last part talks about the 72 hours

imamaze
04-11-2012, 09:15 AM
Just a reminder...

We are allowing MSM links only, some blogs and social links but only with approval from Admins. Thank you.

Ima

mysteriew
04-11-2012, 09:17 AM
it makes no sense that Mr Zimmerman's not-my-attys are still all over my tv and still stirring things up. In some ways it seems to me that they want a riot type situation

IMO it sounds like the attorneys are trying to bring him in line. It sounds like they are still willing to rep him. But they want guarentees from him.... no more contacting media, no more online contacts. Be available to the attorneys.

His erratic behaviors, his leaving the state, his not taking legal advise seriously, being out of contact..... I'm wondering if perhaps there isn't some fear of him being suicidal. Announcing that he is 'out of contact' I think they are hoping someone will turn him in.

Anybody know if anyone is 'out of state' with him?

LambChop
04-11-2012, 09:19 AM
I will agree with Gregaros that the lawyers talking about GZ's mental state is very poor form. For two people that are seemingly supposed to defend him, they did more harm to his case yesterday than anything. Like Toobin on CNN said, why would they even need to call a presser, they could of just called the SP discretely and said they are off the case.

It begs the question, how much were they ever 'his' lawyers? Did GZ actually retain them? When they were going on these talk shows, were they speaking what he wanted them to say or were they just going off what they read in the media, similar to if one of us got up there, said we were his lawyer and started talking?

Something is not right, and this goes for the website too. I'm beginning to trust less and less what these two lawyers say, to the point where I'm starting to question how connected they ever were to GZ. Is the website truly GZ? We've only heard from them that it is.

Guessing here, but I'm thinking RZ hired them and RZ did most of the talking so since they had no "formal" agreement with GZ they feel they are free to talk. jmo

LambChop
04-11-2012, 09:23 AM
I meant it in terms of someone asking if it could be considered aiding and abetting. I don't see how it could if they were giving the money to help with his defense, that is what his website says its for legal defense and living expenses.

Ima

I don't think SA would go after anyone. Only proof they would have that someone sent him money to get away is if GZ emailed them and said he was trying to get out of the country and needed an airline ticket and some ID. jmo

Sensei
04-11-2012, 09:26 AM
This entire deal with yesterday's press conference is mentally insulting.

Haven't talked to your poor, downtrodden, unjustly accused client in a day and a half........so you drop him?

There's something else at play here. You can count on it.

I agree, first I think that GZ did not want his Father to be the one in charge of the money, since the Attorneys made it pretty clear that when they set up the website that Mr. Z senior was the person who had to bank account that the paypal would funnel into, not them. GZ set up one that he would be able to get the money himself. I also do think that they are setting up to be sure that if this does go to an arrest they can make an argument that GZ was too injured, concussion or too mentally impaired and confused due to having his head hit hard to give a reliable statemtent on the night of the incident, and suffering from PTSD in any subsequent statements, in the event that the two don't match.

I still say there is something wrong with the location of the supposed gashes, contusions or whatever on the video we have seen. How do you get damage there if someone is hitting your head against the ground or floor?

The only way you get damage there is if they are holding you by your feet IMO JMHO and stuff.

HiHater
04-11-2012, 09:31 AM
GZ made statements to the prosecutor that he wants to handle the case himself...according to Craig Sonner at the Today Show video link...

Wow.

It seems like the attorneys are pretty desperate to keep him as a client. I wonder why, if not for self-serving reasons...

BetteDavisEyes
04-11-2012, 09:34 AM
...Now, however, it seems like they are still trying to woo him back so I wonder if George isn't in talks with a very high profile attorney and they are upset because he didn't sign the contract with them.

Respectfully edited. GZ knows that this is a high-profile case that will garner tremendous media coverage. He has very likely been contacted by or has contacted several media-savvy lawyers and is weighing his options. Mark NeJames little "earphone fell out" ploy when he was asked if GZ had contacted him was laughable as I feel certain that he has already considered getting involved in the case. And, of course, it was no big surprise that Mark Garagos and Jose Baez were also front and center last night on CNN. Methinks the ex-lawyers are pizzed that they aren't getting the nod. :moo:

tlcya
04-11-2012, 09:35 AM
"Oh, my God. This is just a train wreck of proportions I don't even know where to begin," said Mark Geragos, a prominent defense attorney "Who are you to be diagnosing your client's mental state when you haven't talked to him? This is inexplicable. ... I don't like to second-guess other lawyers in the eye of the storm. But this is frankly one of the most outrageous things I've witnessed."
http://www.cnn.com/2012/04/11/justice/florida-teen-shooting/index.html?hpt=ju_c2

cityslick
04-11-2012, 09:38 AM
GZ made statements to the prosecutor that he wants to handle the case himself...according to Craig Sonner at the Today Show video link...

Wow.

It seems like the attorneys are pretty desperate to keep him as a client. I wonder why, if not for self-serving reasons...

How would he even know that though? The prosecutor is leaking information from conversations with GZ? That's disturbing as well.

LambChop
04-11-2012, 09:39 AM
I agree, first I think that GZ did not want his Father to be the one in charge of the money, since the Attorneys made it pretty clear that when they set up the website that Mr. Z senior was the person who had to bank account that the paypal would funnel into, not them. GZ set up one that he would be able to get the money himself. I also do think that they are setting up to be sure that if this does go to an arrest they can make an argument that GZ was too injured, concussion or too mentally impaired and confused due to having his head hit hard to give a reliable statemtent on the night of the incident, and suffering from PTSD in any subsequent statements, in the event that the two don't match.

I still say there is something wrong with the location of the supposed gashes, contusions or whatever on the video we have seen. How do you get damage there if someone is hitting your head against the ground or floor?

The only way you get damage there is if they are holding you by your feet IMO JMHO and stuff.

Plus Mr. Taaffe claims that GZ slid out from underneath TM (not sure how TM's hands managed to stay under him one hand in the other). But Tracy Martin said the body was found in the grass with TM's feet facing the payment so how could TM be slamming GZ's head into the cement when he was no where near the cement?????

There also seems to be a question as to whether or not LE collected GZ's jacket. I had to laugh because Mr. Taaffe said GZ's jacket was zipped up and blood from GZ's nose was on the jacket we just can't see it BUT both police officers were searching his jacket, pants without gloves????? If there had been the slightest hint of blood they would have had gloves on.

When it's the truth there is no need to remember little details like this one. Mr. Taaffe needs to "Zip it Rosebud." jmo

waltzingmatilda
04-11-2012, 09:39 AM
Respectfully edited. GZ knows that this is a high-profile case that will garner tremendous media coverage. He has very likely been contacted by or has contacted several media-savvy lawyers and is weighing his options. Mark NeJames little "earphone fell out" ploy when he was asked if GZ had contacted him was laughable as I feel certain that he has already considered getting involved in the case. And, of course, it was no big surprise that Mark Garagos and Jose Baez were also front and center last night on CNN. Methinks the ex-lawyers are pizzed that they aren't getting the nod. :moo:

LOL, did you hear Ulrich's dig at their colleagues' criticism in this interview?

http://video.today.msnbc.msn.com/today/47014313#47014313

They're not on his list.:floorlaugh:

wm

suzihawk
04-11-2012, 09:43 AM
"Oh, my God. This is just a train wreck of proportions I don't even know where to begin," said Mark Geragos, a prominent defense attorney "Who are you to be diagnosing your client's mental state when you haven't talked to him? This is inexplicable. ... I don't like to second-guess other lawyers in the eye of the storm. But this is frankly one of the most outrageous things I've witnessed."
http://www.cnn.com/2012/04/11/justice/florida-teen-shooting/index.html?hpt=ju_c2

I really love the footage from this video of these so called attorneys strutting all Hollywood like as if they're walking the red carpet or something. :floorlaugh: Such arrogance.

Velouria
04-11-2012, 09:43 AM
This entire deal with yesterday's press conference is mentally insulting.

Haven't talked to your poor, downtrodden, unjustly accused client in a day and a half........so you drop him?

There's something else at play here. You can count on it.

I'm with you 200% on this one, Papa...

That so-called press conference was a monumental embarrassment. If anyone should be in hiding it's those two "attorneys" - hiding out of shame, that is. Blustering on for 45 minutes about a client you claim to no longer represent? Opining on said ex-clients mental state? Going on and on about his reputation and his account of that night, and you've never even met the guy? Mocking and accusing others of race-baiting while you proceed to paint the victim as a violent, wanna-be thug? And that's just for starters.

IMO, GZ isn't the only one who's "gone rogue" here. I don't know what those two were up to, but they should hire themselves a couple of good attorneys and let them do the talking from now on.

LambChop
04-11-2012, 09:44 AM
How would he even know that though? The prosecutor is leaking information from conversations with GZ? That's disturbing as well.

I would think it came from the attorneys. SA had to call them and notify them that GZ had gotten in touch with her and that she advised him she could not talk to him without representation. The attorneys have claimed on TV to represent him and he said himself to her they were his "Legal Advisors" so she was within her rights to contact them. jmo

rbrnmw2
04-11-2012, 09:44 AM
Didn't someone on this thread post that same thing?

Is JB still reading here? :floorlaugh:

I think a lot of talking heads read here. I have heard many of the posts I read earlier repeated by TH.
JB needs to climb back in the clown car he's so irritating MOO

JeannaT
04-11-2012, 09:45 AM
How would he even know that though? The prosecutor is leaking information from conversations with GZ? That's disturbing as well.

I think the attorneys said that yesterday in the PC, didn't they? That he characterized the two lawyers as his "legal advisors" rather than his lawyers, which they didn't understand, and that he wanted to speak to the prosecutor in person without representation?

Adrienne37
04-11-2012, 09:46 AM
Plus Mr. Taaffe claims that GZ slid out from underneath TM (not sure how TM's hands managed to stay under him one hand in the other). But Tracy Martin said the body was found in the grass with TM's feet facing the payment so how could TM be slamming GZ's head into the cement when he was no where near the cement?????

There also seems to be a question as to whether or not LE collected GZ's jacket. I had to laugh because Mr. Taaffe said GZ's jacket was zipped up and blood from GZ's nose was on the jacket we just can't see it BUT both police officers were searching his jacket, pants without gloves????? If there had been the slightest hint of blood they would have had gloves on.

When it's the truth there is no need to remember little details like this one. Mr. Taaffe needs to "Zip it Rosebud." jmo

Mr. T went into great detail to explain how Zimmerman shot Trayvon and how Trayvon fell without getting blood all over him. I was ready to barf while I was watching it. I really wish Mr. T would go on Lawrence O'Donnell's program and spew the garbage he was spewing.



~jmo~

LambChop
04-11-2012, 09:47 AM
I'm with you 200% on this one, Papa...

That so-called press conference was a monumental embarrassment. If anyone should be in hiding it's those two "attorneys" - hiding out of shame, that is. Blustering on for 45 minutes about a client you claim to no longer represent? Opining on said ex-clients mental state? Going on and on about his reputation and his account of that night, and you've never even met the guy? Mocking and accusing others of race-baiting while you proceed to paint the victim as a violent, wanna-be thug? And that's just for starters.

IMO, GZ isn't the only one who's "gone rogue" here. I don't know what those two were up to, but they should hire themselves a couple of good attorneys and let them do the talking from now on.

They're visualizing what their press conference would sound like in the next made for TV movie. lol

mysteriew
04-11-2012, 09:51 AM
How would he even know that though? The prosecutor is leaking information from conversations with GZ? That's disturbing as well.

What are the chances?

This isn't going to be popular but bear me out.

GZ contacts the special prosecutor and she refuses to talk to him without his reps. So he denys the reps. She talks to him. Then the special prosecutor announces she will make an announcement in 72 hours.

Has he made a confession to the prosecutor, asked for 72 hours to 'get his affairs in order'?

Since he denied the his attorneys, and since they don't know what is going on they are stepping back, but they probably have real concern about the mental status of GZ. Esp if he has confessed. They are hoping someone will step forward to give up his whereabouts.

Karmady
04-11-2012, 09:54 AM
How would he even know that though? The prosecutor is leaking information from conversations with GZ? That's disturbing as well.


I imagine it went something like this...

GZ called the special prosecutor's office and got reception or her assistant. I think it's very unlikely that he got through on her direct line unless he misrepresented who he was. He would then and immediately have been advised that no one in the prosecutor's office could speak to him unless he was represented. He responded that he was representing himself. Whoever he was talking to inquired about the status of Uhrig and Sonner and were told by GZ that they were not representing him, but were merely consulting. The call was terminated by the prosecutor's office and GZ's "counsel" was contacted directly and asked to verify the representation or lack thereof. It would be SOP for adverse counsel to advise GZ's counsel that their "client" had contacted them directly.

Upon being contacted with this information by the prosecutor's office, Sonner and Uhrig went on national television to make it publicly crystal clear that they are not holding themselves out as GZ's counsel without his consent, etc. which would subject them to disciplinary action and could cause other repercussions wrt GZ's defense.

I believe the decision to do this so publicly is related to the extremely high profile of the case and so they can say they did everything in their power to convey their position regarding the representation to their client. Since he wasn't returning calls or answering e-mail, but is almost certainly watching national television and following other media coverage, they can tell the court or the bar that they felt this was the most effective way to communicate with him under the circumstances. IOW, they did everything they could to ensure he got their message. I'm sure they also sent him e-mails and texts and left vm's, but they decided to take the belt and suspenders approach due to all that could potentially be at stake.

jmo.

annalia
04-11-2012, 09:54 AM
Mr. T went into great detail to explain how Zimmerman shot Trayvon and how Trayvon fell without getting blood all over him. I was ready to barf while I was watching it. I really wish Mr. T would go on Lawrence O'Donnell's program and spew the garbage he was spewing.



~jmo~

Yep, it was pathetic, made no sense, and once again he tried to come across as being real knowledgable about that as if it was first hand inside knowledge, and then NG asks if GZ told him that and he says no it was just what he gathered from the police report. Then NG says something about finding out that he gets his info from the Orlando Sentinel. :floorlaugh:

I don't see him ever going on O'Donnell.

JMHO

Velouria
04-11-2012, 09:57 AM
Mr. T went into great detail to explain how Zimmerman shot Trayvon and how Trayvon fell without getting blood all over him. I was ready to barf while I was watching it. I really wish Mr. T would go on Lawrence O'Donnell's program and spew the garbage he was spewing.



~jmo~


Oh my. Did FT get that nugget from the police report, too?

I have to admit, I enjoyed seeing NG :whip: him last night. And the funny thing is, he keeps coming back. We'll probably hear him ask about her twins tomorrow, that is if Mr. Zimmerman's ex-attorneys don't elbow him out of the camera's view.

Why isn't anyone who claims to represent GZ coming forward with some facts we can use, like the medical evidence?

Rob774
04-11-2012, 09:58 AM
What you say???

Zimmerman not listening to advise from people who know better than him...

Surely this can't be!!!

waltzingmatilda
04-11-2012, 09:58 AM
I don't have a link for this so consider it RUMOR.

There is an interview out there somewhere where one of the attys states that he is not GZ's atty but his legal advisor because no charges have been filed and he can't represent him until/unless charges are filed. It was a TODAY interview and IIRC it was when Sonner was flying solo, before Ulrich, but I can't be sure. Does anyone else remember this?

moo

wm

Sensei
04-11-2012, 09:59 AM
Mr. T went into great detail to explain how Zimmerman shot Trayvon and how Trayvon fell without getting blood all over him. I was ready to barf while I was watching it. I really wish Mr. T would go on Lawrence O'Donnell's program and spew the garbage he was spewing.



~jmo~

Meanwhile he's telling how GZ's jacket was zipped up that is why there was no blood on his shirt, but he is not explaining how there was no blood on the jacket either....color not withstanding, if there had been blood even on the red jacket there would have been dark areas, showing that it was wet, and it would not have looked as if it just came out of the dryer.

I just can't get a grip on what GZ or his "former Attorneys" are attempting to acomplish here except to make them all look like total boobs, this is just
weird and bizarre IMO JMHO and stuff.

Adrienne37
04-11-2012, 10:01 AM
AG vows thorough review in Trayvon Martin case
Justice Dept. launched investigation 3 weeks ago

WASHINGTON (AP) — Attorney General Eric Holder said Wednesday that the Justice Department will take appropriate action in the killing of Trayvon Martin if it finds evidence that a federal criminal civil rights crime has been committed.

http://www.wthitv.com/dpps/news/national/south/ag-vows-thorough-review-in-trayvon-martin-case-nt12-jgr_4136163

Adrienne37
04-11-2012, 10:02 AM
Yep, it was pathetic, made no sense, and once again he tried to come across as being real knowledgable about that as if it was first hand inside knowledge, and then NG asks if GZ told him that and he says no it was just what he gathered from the police report. Then NG says something about finding out that he gets his info from the Orlando Sentinel. :floorlaugh:

I don't see him ever going on O'Donnell.

JMHO

I know darn it, that's just wishful thinking!!



~jmo~

tehcloser
04-11-2012, 10:02 AM
How would he even know that though? The prosecutor is leaking information from conversations with GZ? That's disturbing as well.

It not a leak from the prosecutor, they thought they were talking to GZ's attorneys. They had no idea they would flip out at a presser..........

Adrienne37
04-11-2012, 10:03 AM
Oh my. Did FT get that nugget from the police report, too?

I have to admit, I enjoyed seeing NG :whip: him last night. And the funny thing is, he keeps coming back. We'll probably hear him ask about her twins tomorrow, that is if Mr. Zimmerman's ex-attorneys don't elbow him out of the camera's view.

Why isn't anyone who claims to represent GZ coming forward with some facts we can use, like the medical evidence?

Could be because there is no medical evidence? :seeya:

Elley Mae
04-11-2012, 10:04 AM
http://www.clickorlando.com/news/Corey-to-present-new-information/-/1637132/10452410/-/gx69ei/-/index.html

In a memo from her office, Corey said she will release new information regarding the investigation into Martin's death, but no specifics were provided.

BBM
what could it be?

Velouria
04-11-2012, 10:06 AM
I don't have a link for this so consider it RUMOR.

There is an interview out there somewhere where one of the attys states that he is not GZ's atty but his legal advisor because no charges have been filed and he can't represent him until/unless charges are filed. It was a TODAY interview and IIRC it was when Sonner was flying solo, before Ulrich, but I can't be sure. Does anyone else remember this?

moo

wm

BBM

Understanding this is just rumor, mind you....:)

That sounds like something Sonner would say. I've never heard of an attorney not being able to represent someone because no charges have been filed. What about people who request an attorney during a police interview? Do they say "Mind you officer, this is only my legal counsel, not my attorney."

GMAB

Isabelle
04-11-2012, 10:06 AM
I agree, first I think that GZ did not want his Father to be the one in charge of the money, since the Attorneys made it pretty clear that when they set up the website that Mr. Z senior was the person who had to bank account that the paypal would funnel into, not them. GZ set up one that he would be able to get the money himself. I also do think that they are setting up to be sure that if this does go to an arrest they can make an argument that GZ was too injured, concussion or too mentally impaired and confused due to having his head hit hard to give a reliable statemtent on the night of the incident, and suffering from PTSD in any subsequent statements, in the event that the two don't match.

I still say there is something wrong with the location of the supposed gashes, contusions or whatever on the video we have seen. How do you get damage there if someone is hitting your head against the ground or floor?

The only way you get damage there is if they are holding you by your feet IMO JMHO and stuff.


Agree completely on the 'gashes' on his head. The gun GZ used is known for having a bad kick. I imagined him pulling the trigger, recoil causing his hands and butt of the gun hitting his nose and causing him to fall backwards striking the top of his head on a tree, trash receptacle or other object. A green painted receptacle is shown along the walkway, but I don't know how far from this the shooting occurred or how far GZ actually was from TM when he fired.

suzihawk
04-11-2012, 10:07 AM
I imagine it went something like this...

GZ called the special prosecutor's office and got reception or her assistant. I think it's very unlikely that he got through on her direct line unless he misrepresented who he was. He would then and immediately have been advised that no one in the prosecutor's office could speak to him unless he was represented. He responded that he was representing himself. Whoever he was talking to inquired about the status of Uhrig and Sonner and were told by GZ that they were not representing him, but were merely consulting. The call was terminated by the prosecutor's office and GZ's "counsel" was contacted directly and asked to verify the representation or lack thereof. It would be SOP for adverse counsel to advise GZ's counsel that their "client" had contacted them directly.

Upon being contacted with this information by the prosecutor's office, Sonner and Uhrig went on national television to make it publicly crystal clear that they are not holding themselves out as GZ's counsel without his consent, etc. which would subject them to disciplinary action and could cause other repercussions wrt GZ's defense.

I believe the decision to do this so publicly is related to the extremely high profile of the case and so they can say they did everything in their power to convey their position regarding the representation to their client. Since he wasn't returning calls or answering e-mail, but is almost certainly watching national television and following other media coverage, they can tell the court or the bar that they felt this was the most effective way to communicate with him under the circumstances. IOW, they did everything they could to ensure he got their message. I'm sure they also sent him e-mails and texts and left vm's, but they decided to take the belt and suspenders approach due to all that could potentially be at stake.

jmo.

That's all fine and dandy. I don't blame them for trying to cover their arses nine ways to Sunday.

But why continue to grandstand for 45 solid minutes regurgitating every minute detail of the case as they know it according to George Zimmerman?

This presser (or media event) should have lasted five minutes, tops. A simple, "We have decided to step down because..." would have been sufficient.

Velouria
04-11-2012, 10:09 AM
It not a leak from the prosecutor, they thought they were talking to GZ's attorneys. They had no idea they would flip out at a presser..........

That was the sort of press conference you call when you decide to retire from the practice of law and want to ensure that you are no longer bothered by pesky potential clients. :)

Sensei
04-11-2012, 10:09 AM
Could be because there is no medical evidence? :seeya:

That would be my guess, after all think of all the flak and rally's and everything else that could have been totally avoided if they had simply come out with some solid proof that shows that GZ was actually in a fight for his life when he shot....I believe that if that proof existed it would have been out there and we could have avoided a lot of carp..IMO JMHO and stuff.

JeannaT
04-11-2012, 10:09 AM
Oh my. Did FT get that nugget from the police report, too?

I have to admit, I enjoyed seeing NG :whip: him last night. And the funny thing is, he keeps coming back. We'll probably hear him ask about her twins tomorrow, that is if Mr. Zimmerman's ex-attorneys don't elbow him out of the camera's view.

Why isn't anyone who claims to represent GZ coming forward with some facts we can use, like the medical evidence?

Since he hasn't been charged with a crime, lawyers don't have access to the police reports and any medical evidence they may have.

Phoenixfla
04-11-2012, 10:09 AM
This is my theory I know most of you will disagree, and thats ok.

Yesterday the SP contacted GZs attys and said We are not filing charges, but we want to talk to GZ to make sure that he is safe once the announcement is made. GZs lawyers call and leave a voicemail for GZ with the news, but instead of calling his lawyers, he calls SP. SP probably either tells him to leave the state, or offers some kind of protection.

Once he knows that he is not going to be charged, he calls Sean Hannity because he wants to present his side of the story and needs a show to go on. (Not going to go on NBC now is he?) Why else would anybody call the media??

GZs attys fire him because they were not part of the conversation with the SP, and understand that once GZ goes public they will no longer be in the spotlight.

The 72 hours is for police across the country to make preparations for the potential onslaught of riots. Also, it will get us to Friday placing the beginning of the riots over the weekend when businesses are less likely to be affected.

So I predict that sometime mid-friday the SP will announce no charges are supported by the evidence.

Once again, only my theory. Well know by Saturday if it is accurate or not.

ohiogirl
04-11-2012, 10:10 AM
http://miami.cbslocal.com/2012/04/10/george-zimmermans-attorneys-withdraw-from-case/

Uhrig said that they had been trying to set up a meeting between Zimmerman and the special prosecutor’s office investigating the shooting of Trayvon Martin.

When special prosecutors asked Zimmerman if he had lawyers, he said he only had legal advisers, not a lawyer, according to Uhrig and Sonner.

“I’m not sure what the distinction is, but in his mind there’s a distinction,” Uhrig said.

Wonder why he is confused about that, seems as a lawyer he would know the difference between legal advise and retaining a lawyer. jmo
I don't think the lawyer is confused, it is GZ who is confused, imo.

Velouria
04-11-2012, 10:12 AM
Since he hasn't been charged with a crime, lawyers don't have access to the police reports and any medical evidence they may have.

They DID have access to the police reports, as well as the medical records of their client. In particular, I'm speaking of the medical records relating to the treatment Mr. Zimmerman claims he received the day after the shooting. Why would their own client deny them access to those?

Phoenixfla
04-11-2012, 10:12 AM
Agree completely on the 'gashes' on his head. The gun GZ used is known for having a bad kick. I imagined him pulling the trigger, recoil causing his hands and butt of the gun hitting his nose and causing him to fall backwards striking the top of his head on a tree, trash receptacle or other object. A green painted receptacle is shown along the walkway, but I don't know how far from this the shooting occurred or how far GZ actually was from TM when he fired.

I can assure you that a 9mm does not have anywhere near that amount of recoil. Only in the movies.

Sensei
04-11-2012, 10:12 AM
That was the sort of press conference you call when you decide to retire from the practice of law and want to ensure that you are no longer bothered by pesky potential clients. :)

If that was the intention it worked for me....If I ever found myself in legal trouble I believe I would proceed pro se before I would hire them, who wants their attorney to hold a press conference to tell the nation that their client is a whack job...I may be, but I don't want my attorney telling the media that.
IMO JMHO and stuff

raeann
04-11-2012, 10:14 AM
That was the sort of press conference you call when you decide to retire from the practice of law and want to ensure that you are no longer bothered by pesky potential clients. :)

EXACTLY my thoughts....who in the world would ever hire either of these clowns to ever represent them again.....they will be lucky to get appointed as public defender attorneys if the general public in Florida was listening to that fiasco!

jmo

JeannaT
04-11-2012, 10:14 AM
They DID have access to the police reports, as well as the medical records of their client. In particular, I'm speaking of the medical records relating to the treatment Mr. Zimmerman claims he received the day after the shooting. Why would their own client deny them access to those?

They were adamant that he had a broken nose. My guess is they did have access to what GZ had, but not the physical evidence held by LE.

mikeysmommom
04-11-2012, 10:14 AM
it makes no sense that Mr Zimmerman's not-my-attys are still all over my tv and still stirring things up. In some ways it seems to me that they want a riot type situation

If there are riots IMO MR.Crump and the revs are the ones who riled the mobs,and the news for slanting this case as a youngster choir boy with his ice tea an skittles skipping home was gun downed by a fat crazed gunman.IMO These lawyers are sick and tired of the circus and are speaking out because they know GZ is covered under the law.It is incredible that nothing has been done to anyone who is calling for the capture of a man alive or dead and no one was arrested for putting out a hit.If a White man or group did that he would be jailed IMO.The race card has no place in this case IMO.

Concerned Papa
04-11-2012, 10:15 AM
Oh my. Did FT get that nugget from the police report, too?

I have to admit, I enjoyed seeing NG :whip: him last night. And the funny thing is, he keeps coming back. We'll probably hear him ask about her twins tomorrow, that is if Mr. Zimmerman's ex-attorneys don't elbow him out of the camera's view.

Why isn't anyone who claims to represent GZ coming forward with some facts we can use, like the medical evidence? BBM

Cause they're talkers, NOT magicians. :rocker:

BetteDavisEyes
04-11-2012, 10:15 AM
Pontiac Teacher Fired For Trayvon Fundraiser Says Im Confused

April 11, 2012 9:18 AM

Reporting Charlie Langton

PONTIAC (Talk Radio 1270) She says shes still confused, but the teacher who was fired after trying to create a fundraiser for Trayvon Martins family isnt just moving on.

Brooke Harris is fighting back.

Harris and supporter Rev. Charles Williams are planning a rally outside the school next Monday if the superintendent doesnt hire her back by Friday. About 200 people attended a similar rally Tuesday...

http://detroit.cbslocal.com/2012/04/11/pontiac-teacher-fired-for-trayvon-fundraiser-says-im-confused/

Karmady
04-11-2012, 10:16 AM
That's all fine and dandy. I don't blame them for trying to cover their arses nine ways to Sunday.

But why continue to grandstand for 45 solid minutes regurgitating every minute detail of the case as they know it according to George Zimmerman?
This presser (or media event) should have lasted five minutes, tops. A simple, "We have decided to step down because..." would have been sufficient.

bbm

That I don't know. For the sake of my sanity and because I think it's the right thing to do, I'm trying to stay away from speculating about that which I don't know or at least have a very well-founded basis to speculate about.

Steft50
04-11-2012, 10:17 AM
I haven't been following this case, but just occasionally reading the highlights. Imagine my surprise to learn that "Mr. Stand Your Ground" has left the state.

I guess that is what happens when you learn armed men are out there looking for you.

I mentioned yesterday, if my memory is correct, that GZ disappeared well before there were threats against him, he left before the bounty was put out, he left before this whole thing was even a blip in the local media, much less the national media.

If he had nothing to hide then why go into hiding before his safety was even an issue?

suzihawk
04-11-2012, 10:17 AM
Since he hasn't been charged with a crime, lawyers don't have access to the police reports and any medical evidence they may have.

Well, both Nancy and Taaffe were waving around what they claimed to be the police report, so... :waitasec:

Sensei
04-11-2012, 10:18 AM
They were adamant that he had a broken nose. My guess is they did have access to what GZ had, but not the physical evidence held by LE.

The problem with that is that there was not a xray machine in the back of the police car....If GZ did in fact have a broken nose, he should have some x-rays to prove it, the Attorney stated that he went to a private doctor the day after, and if he does not, then a bloody nose does not equal a broken nose and the statement that it was broken carries as much weight as JB statement about George Anthony and sexual abuse...IOW none at all...
Just because you can say it does not mean that it's so.

Isabelle
04-11-2012, 10:19 AM
http://www.clickorlando.com/news/Corey-to-present-new-information/-/1637132/10452410/-/gx69ei/-/index.html

In a memo from her office, Corey said she will release new information regarding the investigation into Martin's death, but no specifics were provided.

BBM
what could it be?

The new information about the investigation will probably be that the investigation is ongoing.

ohiogirl
04-11-2012, 10:19 AM
Last night his former attorney's alluded to the fact that he is in the United States but wouldn't say where. Then I think, how would they really know? GZ is not returning their phone calls or texts messages. They also had said, if there would be charges brought against GZ, there would be no manhunt, that he would turn himself in but does anyone know where he is?

I also wonder if the SPD told him they were still investigating and to not leave the state of Florida...but I don't think it would matter to GZ for it appears he doesn't follow directions. He was told not to speak with anyone, as most defense attorney's would tell their clients but he contacted Sean Hannity off the record and calls the Special Prosecutors office as they said, behind their backs and also this website...I don't believe he had their permission to do that...






http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/0...n_1416080.html


Since he's lost contact with his lawyers, how can they truly know his whereabouts?

I must say Wise Old Owl had insight that this might come to be..yesterday this thought came to his mind..

I truly wonder if he flew the coup...

I only pray that LE know where he is and can find him at a moments notice...:please:

The attorneys have probably been in touch with GZ's family. imo

mikeysmommom
04-11-2012, 10:20 AM
If that was the intention it worked for me....If I ever found myself in legal trouble I believe I would proceed pro se before I would hire them, who wants their attorney to hold a press conference to tell the nation that their client is a whack job...I may be, but I don't want my attorney telling the media that.
IMO JMHO and stuff

IMO They did not portray him as a whack job,just as someone who has had their world turned upside down due to having to defend himself. I would imagine only someone like a gang member who has killed for sport would not be affected by having to shoot a 17yr old.JMO

Velouria
04-11-2012, 10:20 AM
They were adamant that he had a broken nose. My guess is they did have access to what GZ had, but not the physical evidence held by LE.

Well, seeing as how they've never even met their client, I'll have to take their assurances with a big ol' grain of salt. :)

BetteDavisEyes
04-11-2012, 10:21 AM
Jane Velez-Mitchell:
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1204/10/ijvm.01.html

Nancy Grace:
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1204/10/ng.01.html

Elley Mae
04-11-2012, 10:21 AM
http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/04/11/us-usa-florida-shooting-idUSBRE83A0QX20120411

The day before, Uhrig and Sonner announced they could no longer claim to act as Zimmerman's lawyers because he failed to take their phone calls or respond to emails for days.

Isabelle
04-11-2012, 10:22 AM
I think these attorneys will hear from the Fla. Disciplinary Board.

mikeysmommom
04-11-2012, 10:22 AM
The problem with that is that there was not a xray machine in the back of the police car....If GZ did in fact have a broken nose, he should have some x-rays to prove it, the Attorney stated that he went to a private doctor the day after, and if he does not, then a bloody nose does not equal a broken nose and the statement that it was broken carries as much weight as JB statement about George Anthony and sexual abuse...IOW none at all...
Just because you can say it does not mean that it's so.

Do you know for a fact he did not have xrays?My doctor has an xray machine in his office perhaps GZ doctor does as well.

HiHater
04-11-2012, 10:22 AM
How would he even know that though? The prosecutor is leaking information from conversations with GZ? That's disturbing as well.

That's not disturbing to me. I see nothing wrong with the prosecutor telling a person's "attorneys" that the person doesn't acknowledge them in that role?

The attorneys wouldn't have known otherwise...

Dr.Fessel
04-11-2012, 10:23 AM
I imagine it went something like this...

GZ called the special prosecutor's office and got reception or her assistant. I think it's very unlikely that he got through on her direct line unless he misrepresented who he was. He would then and immediately have been advised that no one in the prosecutor's office could speak to him unless he was represented. He responded that he was representing himself. Whoever he was talking to inquired about the status of Uhrig and Sonner and were told by GZ that they were not representing him, but were merely consulting. The call was terminated by the prosecutor's office and GZ's "counsel" was contacted directly and asked to verify the representation or lack thereof. It would be SOP for adverse counsel to advise GZ's counsel that their "client" had contacted them directly.

Upon being contacted with this information by the prosecutor's office, Sonner and Uhrig went on national television to make it publicly crystal clear that they are not holding themselves out as GZ's counsel without his consent, etc. which would subject them to disciplinary action and could cause other repercussions wrt GZ's defense.

I believe the decision to do this so publicly is related to the extremely high profile of the case and so they can say they did everything in their power to convey their position regarding the representation to their client. Since he wasn't returning calls or answering e-mail, but is almost certainly watching national television and following other media coverage, they can tell the court or the bar that they felt this was the most effective way to communicate with him under the circumstances. IOW, they did everything they could to ensure he got their message. I'm sure they also sent him e-mails and texts and left vm's, but they decided to take the belt and suspenders approach due to all that could potentially be at stake.

jmo.


Ok all of that makes sense but why did Lou Grant show up at the news conference and start yelling at everybody and was that Mary in the crowd he told to shut up and just leave?:waitasec:

Sensei
04-11-2012, 10:24 AM
IMO They did not portray him as a whack job,just as someone who has had their world turned upside down due to having to defend himself. I would imagine only someone like a gang member who has killed for sport would not be affected by having to shoot a 17yr old.JMO

I guess we will have to disagree, since IMO they not only portrayed GZ as a whack job, they didn't do themselves any favors either. They came off sounding about as nutty as they made him sound....and all this and yet they never spoke to him face to face, nope sorry the whole clutch and cluster of them sound like they are a few fries short of a happy meal. IMO JMHO and stuff.

Isabelle
04-11-2012, 10:26 AM
I can assure you that a 9mm does not have anywhere near that amount of recoil. Only in the movies.

Do a look up on the gun GZ used. I didn't make it up and I don't like movies with guns. Thanks.

Concerned Papa
04-11-2012, 10:29 AM
Well, both Nancy and Taaffe were waving around what they claimed to be the police report, so... :waitasec:

I hardly ever watch NG, but I saw that part last night. Ole Frank was all proud of himself, waving his report around sayin he believed in jurisprudence. :floorlaugh:

Got Mz Nancee so hot she started flopping her own around in the camera's face sayin "Well whoop de do Taaffee, I got one of those too!" :floorlaugh:

Ole Frank can't win for loosing. Wore a new tie for her last time, learned a big new word this time. She just ain't cuttin Frank a drop of slack. :floorlaugh:

Sensei
04-11-2012, 10:29 AM
Do you know for a fact he did not have xrays?My doctor has an xray machine in his office perhaps GZ doctor does as well.

Then we circle back to the original question which IS IF there is actual evidence that exists, that shows definitively that GZ was actually in a severe life and death struggle when he shot, WHY would you not avoid the media and the rally's and all the other bruha, and simply show it so that all of this could be avoided and life could go on? Why would anyone deliberatly subject themselves to this if they have the evidence and proof?

I don't believe that they would, I believe that if that proof actually existed that it would have been front and center while everyone in GZ's family and friend circle and their dog was out trying to clear his name and convince everyone of his innocence..IMO JMHO and stuff.

Velouria
04-11-2012, 10:30 AM
Ok all of that makes sense but why did Lou Grant show up at the news conference and start yelling at everybody and was that Mary in the crowd he told to shut up and just leave?:waitasec:

Well thanks for my first coffee-spew of the day, Doc! :silly: Was that the craziest presser or what?

Elley Mae
04-11-2012, 10:30 AM
http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/04/11/us-usa-florida-shooting-idUSBRE83A0QX20120411

Uhrig also told Reuters that Zimmerman had said by phone that he would sign a written agreement acknowledging Uhrig was his attorney and was scheduled to do so last weekend but never did. Florida does not require a signed agreement between attorney and client, although it is "better practice" and nearly every case includes one, Uhrig said.

It seems that the Reuters reporter did inquire as to their (contract) w/GZ. So then the lawyers in Fl can jump on any bandwagon w/o a signed contract.

cityslick
04-11-2012, 10:30 AM
That's not disturbing to me. I see nothing wrong with the prosecutor telling a person's "attorneys" that the person doesn't acknowledge them in that role?

The attorneys wouldn't have known otherwise...

They did not say this yesterday though. They said they were off the case because they cannot contact him, he is not responding to them for 2 days and they can't represent him if they cannot talk to him.

Aedrys
04-11-2012, 10:30 AM
I worry about this 72 hours thing. That is a long time. He could be long gone at that point, or take his life by that point. The SA is taking a huge gamble by waiting 72 more hours. Or maybe she knows something we don't know and it will all be okay, I don't know. I just hope he didn't promise to turn himself in and then doesn't turn around and kill himself instead.

Thinking about it, why would they trust anything he says to them anyway? As a show of good faith? This whole thing doesn't make any sense.

And I seriously think these two lawyers took a page from Cheney Mason's book. What is it with lawyers near retirement age acting like this? You'd think they'd want to go out with a good reputation, not destroy their reputation. Or maybe it's just lawyers near retirement in Florida.

Steft50
04-11-2012, 10:30 AM
This entire deal with yesterday's press conference is mentally insulting.

Haven't talked to your poor, downtrodden, unjustly accused client in a day and a half........so you drop him?

There's something else at play here. You can count on it.


I had a thought this morning that I just can't shake. Defense attorneys need to be ab le to have some control over they're clients behavior and these attorneys have done a lot in the name of GZ for literally nothing and in return he does what he seems to do well....whatever he wants to do. Could this be a public spanking from his attorneys for not listening to them or following they're instruction?

suzihawk
04-11-2012, 10:33 AM
If there are riots IMO MR.Crump and the revs are the ones who riled the mobs,and the news for slanting this case as a youngster choir boy with his ice tea an skittles skipping home was gun downed by a fat crazed gunman.IMO These lawyers are sick and tired of the circus and are speaking out because they know GZ is covered under the law.It is incredible that nothing has been done to anyone who is calling for the capture of a man alive or dead and no one was arrested for putting out a hit.If a White man or group did that he would be jailed IMO.The race card has no place in this case IMO.

Perhaps this line of discusiion would be better suited for the thread set up for the purpose of discussing protests, civil rights leaders, political, religious and racial issues surrounding the Trayvon Martin case.

JMO

Adrienne37
04-11-2012, 10:33 AM
Trayvon Martin's coach breaks silence

http://nancygrace.blogs.cnn.com/2012/04/11/trayvon-martins-coach-breaks-silence/?hpt=ng_mid

Dr.Fessel
04-11-2012, 10:33 AM
I can assure you that a 9mm does not have anywhere near that amount of recoil. Only in the movies. I think that ejector slide might have come back and whacked him in the side of the nose.

Gin
04-11-2012, 10:34 AM
JMO/IMO
I keep thinking of Trayvon's screams and wails.. His last few moments on this earth were pure terror, thanks to the condo's armed patrol volunteer.

Just 40 minutes after snuffing out a life, GZ looks clean, comfortable, cool as a cucumber as he easily walks through the police station. You'd think he was being taken in for forgetting to pay a stack of parking tickets.

GZ must have been 100% convinced that as long as he carefully invoked the magic words Stand Your Ground, there would be no consequences. IMO, he made sure to come up with a quick story that fit his need to be able to easily justify a kill. He wanted to make certain he got a SYG get out of jail free card.

And you know what, his little plan almost worked.

Now we have a clearer picture of what kind of guy GZ is....demanding, entitled, manipulative,rogue...take your pick.

frenchvixen
04-11-2012, 10:34 AM
I hardly ever watch NG, but I saw that part last night. Ole Frank was all proud of himself, waving his report around sayin he believed in jurisprudence. :floorlaugh:

Got Mz Nancee so hot she started flopping her own around in the camera's face sayin "Well whoop de do Taaffee, I got one of those too!" :floorlaugh:

Ole Frank can't win for loosing. Wore a new tie for her last time, learned a big new word this time. She just ain't cuttin Frank a drop of slack. :floorlaugh:

My favorite part of the show was when he matter-of-factory said"I missed you Nancy" and she half rolled her eyes. Priceless.

annalia
04-11-2012, 10:34 AM
They did not say this yesterday though. They said they were off the case because they cannot contact him, he is not responding to them for 2 days and they can't represent him if they cannot talk to him.

BBM

Yes they did. They were the ones that said in the presser that GZ had contacted the SA on his own as well as the part about just being legal advisors.

JMHO

Isabelle
04-11-2012, 10:35 AM
Not sure a broken nose would show up on an x-ray, unless the part of the skull that is attached to the cartilage forming the bridge of the nose is also broken. In reality a broken nose isn't really 'broken', but is a case where the cartilage is torn/ separated. A look at the front of a skull would tell more in terms of how the cartilage is attached to the skull.

Adrienne37
04-11-2012, 10:35 AM
I worry about this 72 hours thing. That is a long time. He could be long gone at that point, or take his life by that point. The SA is taking a huge gamble by waiting 72 more hours. Or maybe she knows something we don't know and it will all be okay, I don't know. I just hope he didn't promise to turn himself in and then doesn't turn around and kill himself instead.

Thinking about it, why would they trust anything he says to them anyway? As a show of good faith? This whole thing doesn't make any sense.

And I seriously think these two lawyers took a page from Cheney Mason's book. What is it with lawyers near retirement age acting like this? You'd think they'd want to go out with a good reputation, not destroy their reputation. Or maybe it's just lawyers near retirement in Florida.

For what it's worth Aedrys, we have no way of knowing that he didn't leave the country on 02/27/2012.



~jmo~

HiHater
04-11-2012, 10:35 AM
http://www.clickorlando.com/news/Corey-to-present-new-information/-/1637132/10452410/-/gx69ei/-/index.html

In a memo from her office, Corey said she will release new information regarding the investigation into Martin's death, but no specifics were provided.

BBM
what could it be?

Pure speculation: Trayvon was either shot in the back or from a further distance than we have been led to believe.

JMO IMO MOO

mikeysmommom
04-11-2012, 10:35 AM
I guess we will have to disagree, since IMO they not only portrayed GZ as a whack job, they didn't do themselves any favors either. They came off sounding about as nutty as they made him sound....and all this and yet they never spoke to him face to face, nope sorry the whole clutch and cluster of them sound like they are a few fries short of a happy meal. IMO JMHO and stuff.

IMO They were speaking out in defense of GZ and it seems anyone who does that people take issue with.This is a victims forum and until I see evidence from a real source(AD)GZ is as much a victim as TM is.The media and others have been playing on the emotional aspects of this case IMO Emotion have nothing to do with the law.

Aedrys
04-11-2012, 10:36 AM
I had a thought this morning that I just can't shake. Defense attorneys need to be ab le to have some control over they're clients behavior and these attorneys have done a lot in the name of GZ for literally nothing and in return he does what he seems to do well....whatever he wants to do. Could this be a public spanking from his attorneys for not listening to them or following they're instruction?

I've wondered about that myself. No lawyer is going to go down for a bad client. I think that press conference yesterday was their way of flipping him off, just not actually doing that. They CYA'd by saying he could contact them, but like he would really contact them now? They seem like sore losers to me, and apparently are childish enough to make fools of themselves just to send GZ a message, if that is what they were doing. Maybe they wanted to show him what he passed up and how it's his loss now. Who knows.

mikeysmommom
04-11-2012, 10:36 AM
Pure speculation: Trayvon was either shot in the back or from a further distance than we have been led to believe.

JMO IMO MOO

If that were the case he would have been arrested by now.JMO,IMO and all that jazz.

HiHater
04-11-2012, 10:37 AM
I worry about this 72 hours thing. That is a long time. He could be long gone at that point, or take his life by that point. The SA is taking a huge gamble by waiting 72 more hours. Or maybe she knows something we don't know and it will all be okay, I don't know. I just hope he didn't promise to turn himself in and then doesn't turn around and kill himself instead.

Thinking about it, why would they trust anything he says to them anyway? As a show of good faith? This whole thing doesn't make any sense.

And I seriously think these two lawyers took a page from Cheney Mason's book. What is it with lawyers near retirement age acting like this? You'd think they'd want to go out with a good reputation, not destroy their reputation. Or maybe it's just lawyers near retirement in Florida.

Maybe the 72 hours is to allow him time to get back to Florida? JMO

rotterdam
04-11-2012, 10:37 AM
I will agree with Gregaros that the lawyers talking about GZ's mental state is very poor form. For two people that are seemingly supposed to defend him, they did more harm to his case yesterday than anything. Like Toobin on CNN said, why would they even need to call a presser, they could of just called the SP discretely and said they are off the case.

It begs the question, how much were they ever 'his' lawyers? Did GZ actually retain them? When they were going on these talk shows, were they speaking what he wanted them to say or were they just going off what they read in the media, similar to if one of us got up there, said we were his lawyer and started talking?

Something is not right, and this goes for the website too. I'm beginning to trust less and less what these two lawyers say, to the point where I'm starting to question how connected they ever were to GZ. Is the website truly GZ? We've only heard from them that it is.

I just wonder if those two lawyers worked more with RZ Sr than with GZ.
And GZ had a fall out with daddy.

Sensei
04-11-2012, 10:38 AM
I'd guarantee that Zimmerman hasn't stepped into a doctor's office any time between 02/26/2012 and today. If there were medical documentation supporting his injuries, you can bet your bottom dollar that these two "lawyers" would have already put it out there in the media. That's all it would take to quieten the crowds.


~jmo~

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
This is exactly what I'm sayin, but you said it better.

The vast majority of people would just Shut up, if it became apparent that there was proof of GZ's claims....IMO JMHO and stuff.

Aedrys
04-11-2012, 10:38 AM
For what it's worth Aedrys, we have no way of knowing that he didn't leave the country on 02/27/2012.



~jmo~

True, but then why give him 72 more hours if he's already out of the country? How could the SA trust he would come back in that time period? She can't trust him at all. I'm just really baffled at what is going on here. You don't give a mentally unstable person who might have already fled the country 72 more hours before you make an announcement. I really wish I could be a fly on the wall behind the scenes!

frenchvixen
04-11-2012, 10:39 AM
I worry about this 72 hours thing. That is a long time. He could be long gone at that point, or take his life by that point. The SA is taking a huge gamble by waiting 72 more hours. Or maybe she knows something we don't know and it will all be okay, I don't know. I just hope he didn't promise to turn himself in and then doesn't turn around and kill himself instead.

Thinking about it, why would they trust anything he says to them anyway? As a show of good faith? This whole thing doesn't make any sense.

And I seriously think these two lawyers took a page from Cheney Mason's book. What is it with lawyers near retirement age acting like this? You'd think they'd want to go out with a good reputation, not destroy their reputation. Or maybe it's just lawyers near retirement in Florida.

Yuck, it was so gross to watch the older attorney mocking the congresswoman and his voice was screeching. Didn't Howard Deen lose his bid for president a few years ago for doing that same type of screechy noise with his voice? It's so ugly. I think piers used a word last night to describe these attorneys but I can't remember it. It was just ugly and tacky.

JeannaT
04-11-2012, 10:41 AM
The attorneys have probably been in touch with GZ's family. imo

I believe they did say they spoke to Ron 10 minutes before the Press conference.

rotterdam
04-11-2012, 10:42 AM
I really love the footage from this video of these so called attorneys strutting all Hollywood like as if they're walking the red carpet or something. :floorlaugh: Such arrogance.

They kind of remind me of "Men in black" with that strut. And they acted like they lost their favorite extraterrestrial.

cityslick
04-11-2012, 10:42 AM
My favorite part of the show was when he matter-of-factory said"I missed you Nancy" and she half rolled her eyes. Priceless.

Everyone by now knows NG's schtick. I'm surprised more of her 'guests' doesn't call her out on it.

cityslick
04-11-2012, 10:43 AM
BBM

Yes they did. They were the ones that said in the presser that GZ had contacted the SA on his own as well as the part about just being legal advisors.

JMHO

They did not say that the prosecutors office told them that they are no longer his lawyers.

Adrienne37
04-11-2012, 10:44 AM
Yuck, it was so gross to watch the older attorney mocking the congresswoman and his voice was screeching. Didn't Howard Deen lose his bid for president a few years ago for doing that same type of screechy noise with his voice? It's so ugly. I think piers used a word last night to describe these attorneys but I can't remember it. It was just ugly and tacky.

The whole thing was utterly disgusting.

Velouria
04-11-2012, 10:44 AM
IMO They were speaking out in defense of GZ and it seems anyone who does that people take issue with.This is a victims forum and until I see evidence from a real source(AD)GZ is as much a victim as TM is.The media and others have been playing on the emotional aspects of this case IMO Emotion have nothing to do with the law.

How is GZ as much a victim as TM? TM is dead. GZ is not.

I believe that a defense attorney has every right to defend his client, but what those two attorneys did yesterday was extremely unprofessional.

I agree that there is are emotional aspects of the case, and they're being played up on both sides. That was evident yesterday afternoon.

frenchvixen
04-11-2012, 10:45 AM
IMO They were speaking out in defense of GZ and it seems anyone who does that people take issue with.This is a victims forum and until I see evidence from a real source(AD)GZ is as much a victim as TM is.The media and others have been playing on the emotional aspects of this case IMO Emotion have nothing to do with the law.

GZ is a victim of his delusions. So, this would explain why many on this board side with the real victim(s). I don't remember who said this on TV last night but "if GZ had stayed in his car as he was ordered to do so we would not be talking about this".

cityslick
04-11-2012, 10:45 AM
I've wondered about that myself. No lawyer is going to go down for a bad client. I think that press conference yesterday was their way of flipping him off, just not actually doing that. They CYA'd by saying he could contact them, but like he would really contact them now? They seem like sore losers to me, and apparently are childish enough to make fools of themselves just to send GZ a message, if that is what they were doing. Maybe they wanted to show him what he passed up and how it's his loss now. Who knows.

Perhaps, but yet still are touting his 'defense' even today on talk shows. They are sending him a message, yet still presenting his side of the story?

Adrienne37
04-11-2012, 10:46 AM
They did not say that the prosecutors office told them that they are no longer his lawyers.

He told the SA that they were only his legal advisors.



~jmo~

cityslick
04-11-2012, 10:48 AM
He told the SA that they were only his legal advisors.



~jmo~

And they did not know this already? They were the ones who made the comment that they (paraphrasing) weren't really his lawyers because a) nobody's paying them and b) he hasn't been charged with anything.

You can't be a defense lawyer to a client if said client hasn't needed defense yet.

Karmady
04-11-2012, 10:50 AM
They did not say that the prosecutors office told them that they are no longer his lawyers.

I listened to the first part of the conference and, imo, it goes without saying that that is exactly what happened. The prosecutor's office would have called Sonner and Uhrig immediately and would have said something like, "hey, your guy just called us and when we said we couldn't talk to him w/o you, he said you're not representing him any more. Is that true?" At which point Sonner and Uhrig would have become very confused, tried to get in touch with GZ, failed, and formally announced that they are no longer representing him based on his statements to the prosecutor and their inability to confirm or refute the prosecutor's recounting of events with GZ.

Maybe I'm misunderstanding what you are trying to say, though.

Isabelle
04-11-2012, 10:51 AM
I think that ejector slide might have come back and whacked him in the side of the nose.

And considering GZ's 'story' that TM was on top of him, the gun's butt end would have been is close proximity to GZ's face. He could have whacked his head on a bookcase at home or other, for all we know.

rotterdam
04-11-2012, 10:52 AM
http://www.clickorlando.com/news/Corey-to-present-new-information/-/1637132/10452410/-/gx69ei/-/index.html

In a memo from her office, Corey said she will release new information regarding the investigation into Martin's death, but no specifics were provided.

BBM
what could it be?

Let me guess and hope. The investigation has been expanded beyond only GZ.:woohoo:

annalia
04-11-2012, 10:52 AM
They did not say that the prosecutors office told them that they are no longer his lawyers.

And? What exactly is the point, is this to say that prosecutors leaked this information and the leaked information somehow got back to the attorneys? :waitasec:

Then where is any evidence that the prosecutor leaked the information? If the SA leaked this, who did they leak it to and how did the attorneys get the info?

Just because the attorneys didn't go into specific detail doesn't mean that the SA leaked any info.

IT would make more sense that, given that it's highly unusual that anyone would personally contact the SA office and not go through their attorney, that the SA office would let someone know. That isn't a leak.

But that's JMHO and I'm not really all the interested in going round and round about something like this or get hung up on semantics. The point is that GZ contacted the SA on his own, and that his former attorneys were the ones to publicly say so.

JMHO

Isabelle
04-11-2012, 10:53 AM
This presser absolutely cannot be shown all day long today. Please get out the duct tape!

Concerned Papa
04-11-2012, 10:53 AM
Do a look up on the gun GZ used. I didn't make it up and I don't like movies with guns. Thanks.

This is the model used to kill Trayvon:

DonFiringKelTecPF9.AVI - YouTube

Sensei
04-11-2012, 10:54 AM
He told the SA that they were only his legal advisors.



~jmo~

I am pretty sure that the SA's office was required to contact his Attorney's since they were of the understanding that he was represente,d since it is a violation to speak to him without his Attorneys present, they HAD to let the Attorneys know that he had contacted them even if all they did was say Hello, and I am sure that before they would talk with GZ they would require that he sign a form waiving his right to have an Attorney, and he can't do that over the phone, anything less and they are exposed for denying him his rights under Miranda....this is just such a mess, from the word go....I thought other cases were a bit screwy but this thing just takes the prize here. IMO JMHO and stuff.

jaded cat
04-11-2012, 10:55 AM
IMO They did not portray him as a whack job,just as someone who has had their world turned upside down due to having to defend himself. I would imagine only someone like a gang member who has killed for sport would not be affected by having to shoot a 17yr old.JMO

I've seen no evidence that GZ had to shoot TM. His word alone doesn't cut it for me.

Sensei
04-11-2012, 10:58 AM
I listened to the first part of the conference and, imo, it goes without saying that that is exactly what happened. The prosecutor's office would have called Sonner and Uhrig immediately and would have said something like, "hey, your guy just called us and when we said we couldn't talk to him w/o you, he said you're not representing him any more. Is that true?" At which point Sonner and Uhrig would have become very confused, tried to get in touch with GZ, failed, and formally announced that they are no longer representing him based on his statements to the prosecutor and their inability to confirm or refute the prosecutor's recounting of events with GZ.

Maybe I'm misunderstanding what you are trying to say, though.

Even if he is unrepresented, the SA's office cannot speak to him unless he executes a specific waiver of his right to Councel, otherwise that is denying him his Miranda rights

You have a right to remain silent
You have a right to an Attorney ect..

They can't get around that, he has to legally waive that right before they can speak to him without an Attorney.

LiveLaughLuv
04-11-2012, 11:00 AM
They did not say that the prosecutors office told them that they are no longer his lawyers.

They were only his 'legal' advisors....that is what I believe GZ had told ACory...she asked if he had representation, he said only legal advisors..

Elley Mae
04-11-2012, 11:01 AM
http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/04/11/us-usa-florida-shooting-idUSBRE83A0QX20120411

Both Uhrig and Sonner said they had never met face-to-face with Zimmerman but had received emails and spoken by phone with him before Sunday, when they lost contact with him.

So, they tried calling GZ again sunday, seems he didn't answer.

Uhrig also told Reuters that Zimmerman had said by phone that he would sign a written agreement acknowledging Uhrig was his attorney and was scheduled to do so last weekend but never did. Florida does not require a signed agreement between attorney and client, although it is "better practice" and nearly every case includes one, Uhrig said.



bbm

Phoenixfla
04-11-2012, 11:01 AM
I've seen no evidence that GZ had to shoot TM. His word alone doesn't cut it for me.

Thankfully the justice system is not set up where one has to prove their innocence.

Phoenixfla
04-11-2012, 11:03 AM
They can't get around that, he has to legally waive that right before they can speak to him without an Attorney.

Unless he is no longer facing charges.

Karmady
04-11-2012, 11:04 AM
Even if he is unrepresented, the SA's office cannot speak to him unless he executes a specific waiver of his right to Councel, otherwise that is denying him his Miranda rights

You have a right to remain silent
You have a right to an Attorney ect..

They can't get around that, he has to legally waive that right before they can speak to him without an Attorney.

Of course. I was addressing Cityslick's issue about leaks from the prosecutor's office. I believe that the scope of their conversation with GZ was "you are represented, we can't talk to you" and "No, I am not"

mikeysmommom
04-11-2012, 11:05 AM
Then we circle back to the original question which IS IF there is actual evidence that exists, that shows definitively that GZ was actually in a severe life and death struggle when he shot, WHY would you not avoid the media and the rally's and all the other bruha, and simply show it so that all of this could be avoided and life could go on? Why would anyone deliberatly subject themselves to this if they have the evidence and proof?

I don't believe that they would, I believe that if that proof actually existed that it would have been front and center while everyone in GZ's family and friend circle and their dog was out trying to clear his name and convince everyone of his innocence..IMO JMHO and stuff.

I have never seen anyone come out to defend themselves while a case is still under investigation.Any actual evidence that exists is in the hands of investigation where it should be,not the front page of a newspaper just so those in the public whose questions have not been answered are satisfied.In most investigations parents are not told all of whats going on until the investigation is over.JMO

Elley Mae
04-11-2012, 11:07 AM
Maybe he called the SA office to tell them that the two whacko lawyers do not represent him. idk

Sensei
04-11-2012, 11:07 AM
Thankfully the justice system is not set up where one has to prove their innocence.

The justice system does not require him to prove that he is innocent, but in this case he fully admits that he IS the person who shot Trayvon Martin.

What everyone wants him to show, at least by a proponderance of the evidence is that the amount of force he used, in this case deadly force was in fact appropriate to the circumstances. That a reasonable person would have been in fear of their life in similar circumstances, and that his use of force was reasonable.....IOW the family and the public just want to see some evidence that explains why an unarmed teenager is dead of a gunshot to the chest.

LiveLaughLuv
04-11-2012, 11:08 AM
Even if he is unrepresented, the SA's office cannot speak to him unless he executes a specific waiver of his right to Councel, otherwise that is denying him his Miranda rights

You have a right to remain silent
You have a right to an Attorney ect..

They can't get around that, he has to legally waive that right before they can speak to him without an Attorney.


ITA...all this took place over the phone. GZ's hiding, has been since day two probably...can he waive his legal rights over the phone? I'm guessing he can as long as the SA has it recorded or else there's no proof...and a good attorney will get that thrown out...under a technicality...

I'm truly wondering if this 72 hour wait has to do with ACory giving GZ time to turn himself in peacefully...

I believe ACory has access to the autopsy report and can't wait to see that myself. That will be the driving force to charge GZ or not..along with the alleged racial slur..if that is heard, his charge would be elevated...and his account of things must match the evidence she uncovers..if its found he did not follow the dispatchers instructions to not follow, that turns his defense in the opposite direction..then the rest would be gravy...

Sensei
04-11-2012, 11:09 AM
I have never seen anyone come out to defend themselves while a case is still under investigation.Any actual evidence that exists is in the hands of investigation where it should be,not the front page of a newspaper just so those in the public whose questions have not been answered are satisfied.In most investigations parents are not told all of whats going on until the investigation is over.JMO

Until the rally's and the media coverage, the investigation WAS over.

Dr.Fessel
04-11-2012, 11:09 AM
Does this make any sense?

If the Special Prosecutor was not planning on charging George Zimmerman she could have talked to him all he wanted to.

I think because she refused to talk to him it means charges are coming.

jaded cat
04-11-2012, 11:11 AM
Thankfully the justice system is not set up where one has to prove their innocence.

He shot someone. That is a fact, not speculation. The facts and evidence surrounding his use of a gun that night are not known to the public. That is what remains to be proven.

Phoenixfla
04-11-2012, 11:11 AM
What everyone wants him to show, at least by a proponderance of the evidence is that the amount of force he used, in this case deadly force was in fact appropriate to the circumstances.

But the burden of proof is not on him. It is on the state to show that he DID use excessive force. Since charges have not been filed, we have to assume that they have not yet reached that conclusion.