View Full Version : Trial Thread 4/17/2012
Salem
04-17-2012, 03:51 AM
New thread for a new day. Please remember the rules
:tos:
When posting an opinion please remember to use IMO or JMO.
the crown will present its case in chapters:
Chapter 1: The day of the kidnapping. The surveillance video showing Rafferty driving up the street outside Tori's school and McClintic walking Tori up the street. Witnesses from and around Oliver Stephens public school will talk about seeing Tori.
An identification officer will use photographs and maps to show the route from Woodstock to Guelph.
Tori's mother, Tara McDonald, will testify about the frantic hours the family spent looking for Tori.
Chapter 2: Terri-Lynne McClintic. "She was an essential part of all that happened," Gowdey said. "I expect her credibility will be a major issue in this case."
Chapter 3: Guelph -- video surveillance and bank records detailing the events there.
Chapter 4: the Mount Forest death scene, which the jury will visit. "It will be difficult to go to the very place where this happened, I know that, but understanding the crime scene is crucial to understanding the crime," Gowdey said. Photographs, some of them graphic, will be used to explain "exactly how the killing happened."
"Unfortunately it is only through them that you can fully understand (the) evidence," Gowdey said.
Chapter 5: Police interaction with Rafferty.
Chapter 6: The searches of Rafferty and McClintic's residences and the evidence found.
Chapter 7: The Honda Civic. What was found inside.
Chapter 8: Rafferty's connection to the Mount Forest area.
Chapter 9: Comments Rafferty made to friends after April 8. "He had some interesting things to say to other people about Terri-Lynne McClintic and about the kidnapping itself," Gowdey said.
Chapter 10: The May 15 weekend and Rafferty's actions.
Chapter 11: The BlackBerry. The BlackBerry allowed police to track his movements April 8 and after.
Chapter 12: A recap of the surveillance video.
http://www.lfpress.com/news/london/r.../19463111.html
Salem's warning from last week:
Okay everybody - LISTEN UP! We are not bashing, accusing or blaming Tori's family here. It won't be allowed.
Children walk home from school every day without incident. Parents are not perfect, it's just not possible. Tori's parents DID NOT do this to her. TLM and an accomplice DID. That is where the blame goes.
We had a lot of family bashing in the early parts of this investigation after Tori went missing and a lot of baseless accusations - NONE OF WHICH PROVED TO BE TRUE. Victim and family bashing will not be allowed during this trial.
Thank you,
Salem
---------------------------------
and reposting SoSueMe's warning:
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matou
04-17-2012, 07:17 AM
Rafferty jury to hear about links to area where Tori killed
The trial of a man accused of killing Victoria Stafford is expected to hear more evidence today about his ties to the area where the eight-year-old girl's remains were found.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/story/2012/04/17/stafford-tori-trial.html
~n/t~
04-17-2012, 07:52 AM
Good Morning!
http://victoria-elizabeth-marie-stafford.gonetoosoon.org/file/scale__600x500/da94487e56f2088341f40c2bae8b2f69/492173_1332474877.jpg
matou
04-17-2012, 08:22 AM
Rafferty Trial to Hear About Accused's Ties to Area Where Tori Was Killed
Court has heard that Rafferty went to middle school in the area and worked as a landscaper at a landfill less than five kilometres away from where Tori was killed.
http://www.am980.ca/channels/news/local/Story.aspx?ID=1687754
~n/t~
04-17-2012, 08:23 AM
The day after eight-year-old Victoria (Tori) Stafford disappeared, a sympathetic-sounding Michael Rafferty told one woman he was searching for the little girl near his Woodstock home.
Two days after, he comforted that woman by joking he’d tackle “the girl in the white coat” seen in a surveillance video with Tori, adding, “I’m sure she’ll return safe.”
That day he posted on his MSN site in bold letters “Bring Tori home” and commented to a different woman on MSN, “We’re all praying for her.”
Three days after, he told yet another woman they couldn’t go out that weekend because he was looking for a missing little girl.
Eleven days after, Rafferty met that woman and repeated he was still looking for the girl and worried about her.
About three weeks after Tori disappeared, he comforted yet another woman about the “traumatic” incident.
http://www.lfpress.com/news/london/raffertytrial/2012/04/13/19631571.html
He knew all along she was dead, her little body decomposing underneath a pile of rocks. Sickening.
matou
04-17-2012, 08:24 AM
Rafferty’s former boss was the last witness to testify Friday.
John Cruickshank, Owner of the landscaping company ‘Outdoor Services’, said Rafferty worked for him in April 2006.
He told the jury Rafferty worked with a small team of employees installing mulch, cutting perennials and removing bush near land fill sites north of Guelph in the communities of Rothsay, Harriston and Riverstown.
http://www.1047.ca/local-news/michael-rafferty-trial
nobodyzgirl
04-17-2012, 09:15 AM
I found this article to be a good recap and timeline of the trial so far.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/story/2012/03/24/f-stafford-trial-timeline.html
LilyMacBloom
04-17-2012, 09:17 AM
NT
Thank you for taking the time every day to post a diff pic.
Thank you to the friends and family who took and made available to the public said photos that capture your many private moments.
~n/t~
04-17-2012, 09:21 AM
Mike Knoll: Randy Richmond's morning update:
The Crown in the Michael Rafferty murder trial is expected to show evidence Tuesday of the accused's connection to the area where the body of Victoria 'Tori' Stafford was found July 19, 2009.
The eight-year-old girl went missing April 8, 2009 while walking home from her Woodstock school, and her body was found covered in rocks and under trees beside a farmer's field near Mount Forest, north of Guelph.
Rafferty has pleaded not guilty to first-degree murder, kidnapping and sexual assault causing bodily harm.
http://www.lfpress.com/news/london/raffertytrial/2012/04/17/19642201.html
o/t were the smilies on the right removed or is it my computer?
mkozub
04-17-2012, 09:34 AM
no smilies here either :( MOO
Smilie's are not to be seen for me as well!
Thinkzerz
04-17-2012, 09:36 AM
Some things that TLM has said that makes no sense to me. She says that she blamed MR for the one whom used the hammer on Tori because she didn't want to believe that she was capable of doing that herself. But then she says that she would do it again. The only regret is that the person was a child.
Her first story MR killed Tori
So what would TLM be wanting to do again? Kidnap someone for a man to have his way and then he kill the person? This makes no sense to me as what sick pleasure would TLM get from this?
I believe her second story that she killed Tori. She would do it again because for some sick reason she got a thrill out of hammering an innocent person.
Which leaves her story to me unbelievable as she also said that MR and her used a car wash to wash out the car and change clothes but there is no evidence of this happening.
However for MR not to report what he "saw" makes me believe his was totally involved. With a rape or not this man knew all along where Tori's body was and did nothing to help police and her family. He didn't stop anything therefore he deserves to rot in jail for 25 years or heck more if it is possible. JMO
~n/t~
04-17-2012, 09:37 AM
Some Q&A from LFP
9:38
Mike Knoll: @Karin - the local landfill was searched for many items of interest, the car seat among them.
9:37
Comment From karin from BC
And was the local landfill not searched for the missing car seat?
9:37
Mike Knoll: @karin - the trial was scheduled to run 3 months; it began March 4.
9:36
Comment From karin from BC
How long is this trial expected to run before the jury deliberates?
9:33
Mike Knoll: @mo - the jury doesn't know who will testify until the witnesses take the stand.
9:33
Comment From Mo
Any word on who is testifying today?
9:26
Mike Knoll: @Jane - Rafferty's connections to the area must run deeper.
9:25
Comment From Jane
Thought we already heard evidence from rafferty's former landscaping boss about his connection to the mt forest area, he worked at a landfill site 3 km from where Tori's body was found. We still have more to hear?
9:25
Mike Knoll: @RICE - the hammer didn't match the one purchased at Home Depot so it wasn't tested.
9:25
Comment From RICE
is it known if the hammer that was found in the closet of michael raffertys home was ever tested for dna
~n/t~
04-17-2012, 09:44 AM
9:43
Mike Knoll: @Debbie - I would say his general expression is closer to a smirk than a pout. That's just the way his face is shaped though. I highly suggest you visit the London courthouse to draw you own conclusions.
9:42
Comment From Debbie
In all his pictures he seems to have a smirk on his face. Is he like this in court?
~n/t~
04-17-2012, 09:46 AM
9:45
Mike Knoll: @guest - from time to time his lawyers will walk over to his dock and speak with him.
9:45
Comment From Guest
Is Rafferty seen speaking to his Lawyer quite a bit, or just sits and listens with no interaction with his lawyer?
~n/t~
04-17-2012, 09:47 AM
RaffertyLFP: Rafferty trial about to resume [via Twitter]
~n/t~
04-17-2012, 09:48 AM
Steven D'Souza @cbcsteve
Back in London as week 7 of the #Rafferty trial gets set to start
bbm
~n/t~
04-17-2012, 09:56 AM
9:54
Mike Knoll: @monique - then the defense makes their case. They will call evidence, if they see fit.
9:54
Comment From Monique
What happens once the Crown completes all their Chapters of evidence and witnesses?
9:53
Mike Knoll: @Sue - he does appear much more stout than the photos we are seeing of him from the time of his arrest.
9:53
Comment From Sue
Has Rafferty gained weight during this trial? It appears to look as if he has.
Sailor Bug
04-17-2012, 09:56 AM
Tori Stafford trial: Jury to hear more about accused's knowledge of area where body was found http://bit.ly/HPytKR #ToriStafford #Rafferty
jury at the Tori Stafford murder trial will hear more today about Michael Rafferty's past ties to the Mount Forest-area http://bit.ly/IDzL63
~n/t~
04-17-2012, 09:57 AM
9:56
Mike Knoll: @Marlene - also keep in mind he was an admitted Oxy addict - which would have certainly suppressed his appetite when he was a free man.
9:56
Comment From Marlene
Naturally Rafferty will be getting stout. Probably getting better food in jail than when he was out . Not bread and water anymore.
Kamille
04-17-2012, 09:57 AM
Some things that TLM has said that makes no sense to me. She says that she blamed MR for the one whom used the hammer on Tori because she didn't want to believe that she was capable of doing that herself. But then she says that she would do it again. The only regret is that the person was a child.
Her first story MR killed Tori
So what would TLM be wanting to do again? Kidnap someone for a man to have his way and then he kill the person? This makes no sense to me as what sick pleasure would TLM get from this?
I believe her second story that she killed Tori. She would do it again because for some sick reason she got a thrill out of hammering an innocent person.
Which leaves her story to me unbelievable as she also said that MR and her used a car wash to wash out the car and change clothes but there is no evidence of this happening.
However for MR not to report what he "saw" makes me believe his was totally involved. With a rape or not this man knew all along where Tori's body was and did nothing to help police and her family. He didn't stop anything therefore he deserves to rot in jail for 25 years or heck more if it is possible. JMO
BBM
This is a "suggestion" by MR's lawyer and it has not been proven that TLM ever said that or if she did say something of the sort, there is no context because it's hearsay. That could have been a revelation that she made to a counsellor and since TLM was not too shy about letting people know that she was dealing with these violent feelings, it could have been her way of letting the counselor know that she was still dealing with these demons and still needing help with the issue. Perhaps she was passing on information from a counselling session to her godmother, who, for whatever reason, chose to tell the defense about it. Was she contacted or did she contact them? Will she be called as a witness for the defense? Possibly. Just goes to show that TLM had no one in her corner to confide in, that's for sure.
I wonder how many of MR's relatives are going to tell the truth about him both regarding the time frame around this crime and over the years as he was growing up?
MOO
Peekaboo10
04-17-2012, 10:01 AM
Good morning everyone... here we go for another day.
~n/t~
04-17-2012, 10:03 AM
10:02
Mike Knoll: @guest - there seems to be a great amount of interest in the trial. As a random example, the Day 18 feed had 12,099 live readers and has now been replayed 7,789 times.
10:01
Comment From Guest
Wow 7k. Thats alot of viewers
9:59
Mike Knoll: @Don - right now 2,010 - it grows over the course of the day. Usually peaks at 7K.
9:58
Comment From Don
How many viewers today Mike?
Thinkzerz
04-17-2012, 10:03 AM
BBM
This is a "suggestion" by MR's lawyer and it has not been proven that TLM ever said that or if she did say something of the sort, there is no context because it's hearsay. That could have been a revelation that she made to a counsellor and since TLM was not too shy about letting people know that she was dealing with these violent feelings, it could have been her way of letting the counselor know that she was still dealing with these demons and still needing help with the issue. Perhaps she was passing on information from a counselling session to her godmother, who, for whatever reason, chose to tell the defense about it. Was she contacted or did she contact them? Will she be called as a witness for the defense? Possibly. Just goes to show that TLM had no one in her corner to confide in, that's for sure.
I wonder how many of MR's relatives are going to tell the truth about him both regarding the time frame around this crime and over the years as he was growing up?
MOO
I was pretty sure that TLM told her Grandma and that MR lawyer mentioned it to TLM on the stand and she didn't deny it. Not 100% sure though.
Yes it would be great if the family members on both sides are honest. Justice needs to be served.
Sailor Bug
04-17-2012, 10:04 AM
Mike Knoll:- Tori's parents are present more than 90% of the time. Someone from Tori's family is always at the courthouse during the trial.
RaffertyLFP: Trial is resuming Waiting for jury to come in
RaffertyLFP: Ann Tweedie is the next witness
RaffertyLFP: Tweedie is a Waterloo resident but lived in Guelph and Drayton
We're started. The crown has called Ann Tweedie.
Thinkzerz
04-17-2012, 10:04 AM
Good morning everyone... here we go for another day.
Good morning
~n/t~
04-17-2012, 10:06 AM
10:03
Mike Knoll: @guest - Tori's parents are present more than 90% of the time. Someone from Tori's family is always at the courthouse during the trial.
10:03
Comment From Guest
Toris parents continue to come everyday?
RaffertyLFP: Ann Tweedie is the next witness [via Twitter]
Sailor Bug
04-17-2012, 10:08 AM
RaffertyLFP: Tweedie met Rafferty when she was 11 years old in Grade 6 Rafferty was a neighbour and lived with aunt and uncle
RaffertyLFP: Tweedie said she and Rafferty were friends and walked to school together
She currently lives in Waterloo. Met Rafferty at age 11 in Dratyon.
She and Rafferty lived on the same block in Drayton. They were close friends. They walked to school together.
~n/t~
04-17-2012, 10:08 AM
RaffertyLFP: Tweedie is a Waterloo resident but lived in Guelph and Drayton [via Twitter]
RaffertyLFP: Tweedie met Rafferty when she was 11 years old in Grade 6 Rafferty was a neighbour and lived with aunt and uncle [via Twitter]
RaffertyLFP: Tweedie said she and Rafferty were friends and walked to school together [via Twitter]
Sailor Bug
04-17-2012, 10:10 AM
RaffertyLFP: Tweedie said Rafferty moved to Toronto shortly after - believed he was originally from there. He would come back to visit once in a while
AM980.ca @AM980_Court
In grade 7, Rafferty moved to Toronto. She would visit with Rafferty on holidays after that.
RaffertyLFP: Rafferty is smiling during Tweedie's testimony -looks pleased
The visits stopped in 2004. She started emailing him.
~n/t~
04-17-2012, 10:10 AM
Steven D'Souza @cbcsteve
Tweedie says #Rafferty would return annually to visit on special occasions after leaving Drayton in Grade 7. #sl
Steven D'Souza @cbcsteve
Ann Tweedie is on stand. She knew #Rafferty in grade 6. They walked to school together #sl
Steven D'Souza @cbcsteve
Court resumes focusing on #Rafferty's connection to Mt. Forest area where Tori Stafford's remains were found. #sl
Juris_Prudence
04-17-2012, 10:11 AM
Some things that TLM has said that makes no sense to me. She says that she blamed MR for the one whom used the hammer on Tori because she didn't want to believe that she was capable of doing that herself. But then she says that she would do it again. The only regret is that the person was a child.
Her first story MR killed Tori
So what would TLM be wanting to do again? Kidnap someone for a man to have his way and then he kill the person? This makes no sense to me as what sick pleasure would TLM get from this?
I believe her second story that she killed Tori. She would do it again because for some sick reason she got a thrill out of hammering an innocent person.
Which leaves her story to me unbelievable as she also said that MR and her used a car wash to wash out the car and change clothes but there is no evidence of this happening.
However for MR not to report what he "saw" makes me believe his was totally involved. With a rape or not this man knew all along where Tori's body was and did nothing to help police and her family. He didn't stop anything therefore he deserves to rot in jail for 25 years or heck more if it is possible. JMO
I loved this post! Particularly the part I bolded above! You just put into words something I have been thinking for weeks - how does one say they will "do it again" if they did not do it in the first place? I too believe that TLM was the one who killed Tori.
~n/t~
04-17-2012, 10:11 AM
RaffertyLFP: Rafferty is smiling during Tweedie's testimony -looks pleased [via Twitter]
Sailor Bug
04-17-2012, 10:12 AM
RaffertyLFP: Tweedie said she started e-mailing Rafferty in 2000- they also visited in Drayton
RaffertyLFP: Tweedie last saw Rafferty in Christmas 2004 He told her he was living in Guelph and working in restaurant and was teaching dance
The emails were not frequent. She hasn't seen him since Christmas, 2004.
Rafferty told her he was teaching dance.
RaffertyLFP: In 2006 Rafferty spotted Tweedie's profile on Plenty of Fish also connected on Facebook and MSN messenger
Sailor Bug
04-17-2012, 10:14 AM
RaffertyLFP: Tweedie said Rafferty appeared to by living in Guelph in 2007
They reconnected on Plenty of Fish in 2006. They became Facebook friends,
RaffertyLFP: In March 4 2009 Rafferty sent message on MSN messenger Said he was dating girl from Drayton Seemed happy and wanted to marry her
Rafferty was living in Guelph at the time. The last online communication was in March, 2009. Over MSN.
Rafferty told her he was dating Alexis Lane. He said he thought he would marry her.
~n/t~
04-17-2012, 10:15 AM
Steven D'Souza @cbcsteve
Tweedie says last time she saw Rafferty was Christmas 2004 in Drayton, ON. Kept in touch online afterwards #sl
Flowercb
04-17-2012, 10:16 AM
BBM
This is a "suggestion" by MR's lawyer and it has not been proven that TLM ever said that or if she did say something of the sort, there is no context because it's hearsay. That could have been a revelation that she made to a counsellor and since TLM was not too shy about letting people know that she was dealing with these violent feelings, it could have been her way of letting the counselor know that she was still dealing with these demons and still needing help with the issue. Perhaps she was passing on information from a counselling session to her godmother, who, for whatever reason, chose to tell the defense about it. Was she contacted or did she contact them? Will she be called as a witness for the defense? Possibly. Just goes to show that TLM had no one in her corner to confide in, that's for sure.
I wonder how many of MR's relatives are going to tell the truth about him both regarding the time frame around this crime and over the years as he was growing up?
MOO
Does anyone know if MTR's relatives are going to testify. I wonder if they are standing behind him/feel he is innocent.
Sailor Bug
04-17-2012, 10:17 AM
RaffertyLFP: Tweedie said Rafferty never mentioned Tor Stafford or McClinitic - she is excused
Tweedie and Lane were Facebook friends, but not close.
She says Drayton is about 25 minutes from Mount Forest. He never mentioned McClintic or Tori to her. No more questions.
Sailor Bug
04-17-2012, 10:19 AM
RaffertyLFP: Next witness is Jennifer Etsell
The crown has called Jennifer Etsell. Stephanie Venne will be asking the questions.
RaffertyLFP: Etsell is 30 and a medical secretary who lives in Hanover
RaffertyLFP: Etsell lives with her two children She met Rafferty in March 2006 on Plenty of Fish
She's a medical secretary. Lives in Hanover, and has for 28 years. Lives with her two children and grandmother
Kamille
04-17-2012, 10:19 AM
I was pretty sure that TLM told her Grandma and that MR lawyer mentioned it to TLM on the stand and she didn't deny it. Not 100% sure though.
Yes it would be great if the family members on both sides are honest. Justice needs to be served.
It was actually her godmother. I have no idea what kind of person CM would have chosen for a godmother to TLM but you are correct, she did not deny saying that. What is missing is when she said it and the context. Was she upset that she felt that way or was she revelling in what she had done? Was she reaching out for help or bragging? It needs context IMO.
MOO
Jezbel
04-17-2012, 10:20 AM
RaffertyLFP: Next witness is Jennifer Etsell
The crown has called Jennifer Etsell. Stephanie Venne will be asking the questions.
RaffertyLFP: Etsell is 30 and a medical secretary who lives in Hanover
Oh isn't this the one that said he was into bondage or something?
Sailor Bug
04-17-2012, 10:21 AM
RaffertyLFP: They exchanged message and phone numbers. Rafferty profile said he "was looking for Christian girls" and "wore his heart on his sleeve
RaffertyLFP: Etsell said she first met Rafferty in mid-April She waited 45 minutes for him to come out of his apartment and they drove to Guelph
She met Rafferty on Plenty of Fish in 2006. His profile said he was looking for Christian girls.
Oldsoul2
04-17-2012, 10:21 AM
Has anyone thought why he would not just have filled his tank prior to the abduction since he knew from the morning what he was going to do or why he didn't have the garbage bags and hammer already in the car since everyone knows that Home Depot has cameras all over the place and so do gas stations, BECAUSE HE KNEW HE WAS GOING TO MAKE IT LOOK like exactly what he is claiming it to be right now. This is not only murder IMO it is premeditated
Peekaboo10
04-17-2012, 10:22 AM
Plenty of Fish is getting a lot of free advertising... I know if I was single I would NOT be using that site after following this trial JMO
Sailor Bug
04-17-2012, 10:23 AM
RaffertyLFP: Etsell said they went to tattoo parlor but it was booked up and they went to dinner Said his licence was suspended
She worked in Mount Forest. She drove to Guelph to pick him up. He tried to get a tattoo, but parlor was booked up.
Etsell believed they were dating. Lasted about 5 months. Ended August, 2006.
~n/t~
04-17-2012, 10:24 AM
Steven D'Souza @cbcsteve
Jennifer Etsell on stand. Met #Rafferty on Plenty of Fish. Says Rafferty's said was looking for christian girls, wore heart on sleeve #sl
Sailor Bug
04-17-2012, 10:24 AM
RaffertyLFP: Etsell said they dated for about four months. Rafferty claimed he wanted to be a paramedic but was teaching dance and working landscape
He said he was trying to be a paramedic, but was working in landscaping. Also said he was a dance teacher.
RaffertyLFP: Etsell said she would typically pick him up Friday nights driving down Hwy 6 from Hanover to Guelph
She said she had to drive him around, his license was suspended. She would take highway six between the two places.
daisy.faithfull
04-17-2012, 10:24 AM
Probably not relevant, but I wish Tweedie would have been asked about why MTR wasn't living with his parents.
~n/t~
04-17-2012, 10:25 AM
I wonder how many of these women had young children.
Kamille
04-17-2012, 10:25 AM
RaffertyLFP: Tweedie said Rafferty appeared to by living in Guelph in 2007
They reconnected on Plenty of Fish in 2006. They became Facebook friends,
RaffertyLFP: In March 4 2009 Rafferty sent message on MSN messenger Said he was dating girl from Drayton Seemed happy and wanted to marry her
Rafferty was living in Guelph at the time. The last online communication was in March, 2009. Over MSN.
Rafferty told her he was dating Alexis Lane. He said he thought he would marry her.
BBM
While simultaneously stringing TLM along for sex and drugs. Nice guy.
MOO
Sailor Bug
04-17-2012, 10:27 AM
RaffertyLFP: Etsell is pointing out route from Hanover to Guelph that she usually took along Hwy 6 thru Fergus Arthur Mount Forest
She said she had to drive him around, his license was suspended. She would take highway six between the two places.
Bravo
04-17-2012, 10:28 AM
I wish we were privy to the why and the how every single one of these relationships ended.
~n/t~
04-17-2012, 10:29 AM
Steven D'Souza @cbcsteve
The route Etsell took is significant, because it would take the two of them near to site where Tori's remains were found #sl
Steven D'Souza @cbcsteve
Etsell says she would pick up #Rafferty from Guelph and drive him to her home in Hanover. Would take Hwy 6 #sl
Kamille
04-17-2012, 10:30 AM
Has anyone thought why he would not just have filled his tank prior to the abduction since he knew from the morning what he was going to do or why he didn't have the garbage bags and hammer already in the car since everyone knows that Home Depot has cameras all over the place and so do gas stations, BECAUSE HE KNEW HE WAS GOING TO MAKE IT LOOK like exactly what he is claiming it to be right now. This is not only murder IMO it is premeditated
I don't think there is evidence that he was filling his car at the Esso, just cutting through. And how would he know that they would be successful in finding a child THAT day? That's why he wasn't prepared IMO. It was an attempt at an abduction that just happened to work out. That's also why he had to keep his "appointment" with his drug dealer. It was already pre-planned but also provided him with an alibi as to where he was. Which is why he chose that day to attempt the abduction IMO. Would have worked perfectly too if not for that CASS video.
MOO
Sailor Bug
04-17-2012, 10:30 AM
They went to Niagara Falls as their only out of town trip. Mount Forest to Guelph took them about an hour each time.
No more questions from Venne.
RaffertyLFP: No more questions for Etsell Derstine's cross - He asks if they ever strayed off Hwy 6 She says no
Derstine asks if they went on "frolics on country roads, or just stayed on highway six.". She said just on highway six. No more questions.
The jury has been excused so lawyers can discuss a legal matter. No tweets until they return.
RaffertyLFP: Jury is excused while a legal matter is discussed
CarrieBean
04-17-2012, 10:30 AM
Plenty of Fish is getting a lot of free advertising... I know if I was single I would NOT be using that site after following this trial JMO
If I was single before this trial I wouldn't have used an online dating site. This is pretty much why. These sites have always creeped me out. You never know what you'll meet up with. People can be whoever they want online.
Flossie JMO
04-17-2012, 10:31 AM
I loved this post! Particularly the part I bolded above! You just put into words something I have been thinking for weeks - how does one say they will "do it again" if they did not do it in the first place? I too believe that TLM was the one who killed Tori.
I believe she did as well. I had wondered if either Tori may have had an accident which sent TLM into rage and she started the attack, or if it started as a sexual assault by TLM. I think the suddenly being on the ground, and walking Tori to go to the bathroom are lies. JMO
~n/t~
04-17-2012, 10:32 AM
RaffertyLFP: Jury is excused while a legal matter is discussed [via Twitter]
~n/t~
04-17-2012, 10:32 AM
Why was his license suspended or is that another lie?
~n/t~
04-17-2012, 10:33 AM
Steven D'Souza @cbcsteve
Derstine asks a couple quick questions about whether she strayed off Hwy 6 and how well she knew area. #sl
~n/t~
04-17-2012, 10:34 AM
I believe she did as well. I had wondered if either Tori may have had an accident which sent TLM into rage and she started the attack, or if it started as a sexual assault by TLM. I think the suddenly being on the ground, and walking Tori to go to the bathroom are lies. JMO
An accident?
Hello_Kitty
04-17-2012, 10:35 AM
Has anyone thought why he would not just have filled his tank prior to the abduction since he knew from the morning what he was going to do or why he didn't have the garbage bags and hammer already in the car since everyone knows that Home Depot has cameras all over the place and so do gas stations, BECAUSE HE KNEW HE WAS GOING TO MAKE IT LOOK like exactly what he is claiming it to be right now. This is not only murder IMO it is premeditated
Well TLM did say that 'she didn't wake up that morning thinking she was going to abduct a little girl'. So maybe it wasn't planned that day, but it was discussed about previously.
Sailor Bug
04-17-2012, 10:35 AM
Mike Knoll: @Cynthia - http://www.lfpress.com/news/london/raffertytrial/2012/03/23/19539806.html
Is there a way to re-read days #1 to #22 of the trial?
Flossie JMO
04-17-2012, 10:36 AM
An accident?
Sorry I wasn't clear, I mean like a "bathroom accident"
~n/t~
04-17-2012, 10:36 AM
Mike Knoll: @UWO - in general, legal matters can pertain to what and how the jury will hear evidence in the future.
Comment From UWO
Can you give us any general info re: what legal matter is being discussed? OR absolutely not even a general idea due to jury being out?
Sailor Bug
04-17-2012, 10:40 AM
RaffertyLFP: Court has gone into morning recess
~n/t~
04-17-2012, 10:43 AM
Sorry I wasn't clear, I mean like a "bathroom accident"
IMO, that is reaching. The convicted murderer and the accused murderer didn't murder her because she had a bathroom accident.
This was a planned kidnap/rape/murder.
~n/t~
04-17-2012, 10:45 AM
Well TLM did say that 'she didn't wake up that morning thinking she was going to abduct a little girl'. So maybe it wasn't planned that day, but it was discussed about previously.
Yes it was discussed and IIRC, this was a dare! It only takes a split second to plan something (premeditation).
crazyladi
04-17-2012, 10:51 AM
Recess already?? ARGH
Thinkzerz
04-17-2012, 10:54 AM
I wonder if MR dated anyone from Conn area or if he knew people there? Conn is just as close if not closer to the murder site than Mount Forest. It is a small town of say 50 homes.
jenniferleia
04-17-2012, 10:59 AM
Does anyone have a guess on who the girl from Drayton was that he was happy with and wanted to Marry in April 2009? I have lost track LOL!
Thinkzerz
04-17-2012, 11:00 AM
What was the point of having MR's ex Tweedie to testify? I bet that is why MR was smiling because she had nothing on him. Because to me the only link was MR saw her on POF. JMO
Thinkzerz
04-17-2012, 11:03 AM
Does anyone have a guess on who the girl from Drayton was that he was happy with and wanted to Marry in April 2009? I have lost track LOL!
I think it was Lane the one he showed emotion over when she was testifying. I could be wrong.
Hello_Kitty
04-17-2012, 11:03 AM
RaffertyLFP: They exchanged message and phone numbers. Rafferty profile said he "was looking for Christian girls" and "wore his heart on his sleeve
RaffertyLFP: Etsell said she first met Rafferty in mid-April She waited 45 minutes for him to come out of his apartment and they drove to Guelph
She met Rafferty on Plenty of Fish in 2006. His profile said he was looking for Christian girls.
I knew I'd heard somewhere about a christian girl!!
~n/t~
04-17-2012, 11:04 AM
What was the point of having MR's ex Tweedie to testify? I bet that is why MR was smiling because she had nothing on him. Because to me the only link was MR saw her on POF. JMO
This is the Mt. Forest chapter.
Latole
04-17-2012, 11:06 AM
Why was his license suspended or is that another lie?
Did he own a car at this time?
Hello_Kitty
04-17-2012, 11:06 AM
I think it was Lane the one he showed emotion over when she was testifying. I could be wrong.
I think he was with Joy Woods when he was arrested.
~n/t~
04-17-2012, 11:07 AM
Did he own a car at this time?
Yes I believe so but I'll say IMO because I don't have the time to go searching now.
Sailor Bug
04-17-2012, 11:08 AM
Does he have hand cuffs on or is it only on his feet?
no cuffs while in the prisoner's dock.
Any idea what Rafferty's defense is? Is he gonna claim a crazy lady named TLM made him do everything or is he simply gonna say "I wasn't there"
- in Dirk Derstine's cross-examination of TLM he suggested that she abducted Tori to provide her to Rafferty, Rafferty rejected the offer and TLM killed her. TLM denied this was true. One would assume this is the defense.
Has any of Rafferty's family been at trial at all?
we have been told by Rafferty's lawyer that no family members are present.
Flossie JMO
04-17-2012, 11:10 AM
IMO, that is reaching. The convicted murderer and the accused murderer didn't murder her because she had a bathroom accident.
This was a planned kidnap/rape/murder.
I realize it's all speculation. None of us know if this was planned, if there was a rape, who did what etc. I am hoping we will find out the truth.
~n/t~
04-17-2012, 11:10 AM
Does he have hand cuffs on or is it only on his feet?
no cuffs while in the prisoner's dock.
Any idea what Rafferty's defense is? Is he gonna claim a crazy lady named TLM made him do everything or is he simply gonna say "I wasn't there"
- in Dirk Derstine's cross-examination of TLM he suggested that she abducted Tori to provide her to Rafferty, Rafferty rejected the offer and TLM killed her. TLM denied this was true. One would assume this is the defense.
Has any of Rafferty's family been at trial at all?
we have been told by Rafferty's lawyer that no family members are present.
I believe it was decided that he use a prisoner's box for safety purposes, imo
~n/t~
04-17-2012, 11:11 AM
I realize it's all speculation. None of us know if this was planned, if there was a rape etc. I am hoping we will find out the truth.
I know it was based on the evidence presented.
Sailor Bug
04-17-2012, 11:12 AM
Mike Knoll: reporter Hank Daniszewski's morning update:
As the murder trial of Michael Rafferty resumed on Tuesday, the court heard from more of his former friends and girlfriends.
Ann Tweedie was a childhood friend of Rafferty and went to school with him in Grade 6 in Drayton.
Rafferty moved away but he visited once in a while and they stayed in touch online.
In March 2009 he sent Tweedie a message saying he was dating Alexis Lane - a former schoolmate from Drayton and hoped to marry her.
The court also heard from Jennifer Etsell, another former Rafferty girlfriend who connected with him through dating website Plenty of Fish.
Etsell, a 30 year old medical secretary from Hangover, said she and Rafferty dated for about five months beginning April 2006.
She said they always used her car and they frequently drove down Hwy 6 between Hanover and Guelph where Rafferty was living. Tori Stafford's body was found off a rural side road close to Hey 6 north of Guelph.
Rafferty told Etsell he wanted to be a paramedic but was working as a dance instructor and landscaper.
Sorry I wasn't clear, I mean like a "bathroom accident"
I have thought the same thing.
It certainly wouldn't have taken much to set TLM off. Given what we know about her, just about anything would do it. She was/is completely unstable.
Little by little, her testimony is breaking down under scrutiny.
On the weekend, Snoofer spotted where her journal writings where it possibly revealed she knew VS before the abduction, and we are reminded again today that she told her godmother she would do it again......Do what again? Kidnap and murder someone.....perhaps a little older?
I think TLM gave up enough information to intertwine it with the truth and make her story credible. But she slipped up here and there, and it is starting to show.
She supplied an accurate map of the actual crime scene, but claims foggy memory for some details about her story. LE couldn't find the carwash?
Hogwash........LE gave up looking for it because they knew it wasn't there.
I am wondering what her angle was for the lies and bits of truth?
She got the max sentence.............but look at where she is residing.
I have been wondering why they would put such a violent person as TLM in a setting that was obviously designed for women with lighter sentences and a chance at rehabilitation. Over half of the inmates are serving sentences of less than 40 months. Only 18% of the inmates are lifers.
It sounds more like a retirement village than a prison.
About the Institution
Grand Valley Institution (GVI) is a multi level facility located in Kitchener, Ontario. GVI opened in 1997 and can accommodate up to 129 inmates.
Inmates are housed in buildings (houses) arranged in campus style (clusters), one structured living environment house and one secure unit.
The Institution provides a positive and supportive environment focused mainly on women’s timely and safe reintegration.
Facility Characteristics
Institution for women offenders
Security level: multi-level
Date opened: 1997
Number of inmates: 123
Average length of sentences:
Less than 40 months: 51 per cent of inmates
40 months and over: 31 per cent of inmates
Life sentences: 18 per cent of inmates
Number of employees: 176
JMO
Thinkzerz
04-17-2012, 11:12 AM
I think he was with Joy Woods when he was arrested.
"They re-connected, she said, in February of 2009, through the ubiquitous auspices of Facebook."
http://fullcomment.nationalpost.com/2012/04/11/christie-blatchford-accused-michael-rafferty-finally-shows-emotion-at-sight-of-ex-girlfriend/
Flossie JMO
04-17-2012, 11:13 AM
I know it was based on the evidence presented.
We can agree to disagree. We simply have different opinions. JMO the only two people alive that know exactly what happened are TLM and MR.
Kamille
04-17-2012, 11:14 AM
Why was his license suspended or is that another lie?
That was also testified to by his previous boss at the landscaping company. I guess the jury will not be privy to that information as it does not apply to the time frame around this abduction.
That's the thing about trials. Nothing from the defendent's past can be brought in to "predjudice" the jury against him. But any witness who testifies either for or against him is open game regarding credibility. Which is likely why you won't have the crown asking any of these girls about what MR was like as a boyfriend or sexual partner. They would be devastated in cross.
So the jury never really has a total picture of what the defendent might be like based on past actions or other people's opinions. Unless they directly apply to the charge they are facing now. They only have the evidence and actions around the time frame of the crime to consider.
That's what keeps the emotional element out of it.
MOO
~n/t~
04-17-2012, 11:15 AM
Steven D'Souza @cbcsteve
Long break at #Rafferty trial. Lawyers are about to discuss matters without jury present. #sl
~n/t~
04-17-2012, 11:16 AM
We can agree to disagree. We simply have different opinions. JMO the only two people alive that know exactly what happened are TLM and MR.
That's fine but don't state that "nobody knows". That is why I replied that I know based on evidence presented.
What was the point of having MR's ex Tweedie to testify? I bet that is why MR was smiling because she had nothing on him. Because to me the only link was MR saw her on POF. JMO
I think the Crown was trying to show that MR was in the area of the crime scene, but Derstine pretty well mitigated that by asking the witness if they ever left Highway 6, and she said "no".
JMO
~n/t~
04-17-2012, 11:17 AM
That was also testified to by his previous boss at the landscaping company. I guess the jury will not be privy to that information as it does not apply to the time frame around this abduction.
That's the thing about trials. Nothing from the defendent's past can be brought in to "predjudice" the jury against him. But any witness who testifies either for or against him is open game regarding credibility. Which is likely why you won't have the crown asking any of these girls about what MR was like as a boyfriend or sexual partner. They would be devasted in cross.
So the jury never really has a total picture of what the defendent might be like based on past actions or other people's opinions. Unless they directly apply to the charge they are facing now. They only have the evidence and actions around the time frame of the crime to consider.
That's what keeps the emotional element out of it.
MOO
Ahhh got it!! Thanks
Sailor Bug
04-17-2012, 11:21 AM
RaffertyLFP: Court is resuming jury is still out
Hello_Kitty
04-17-2012, 11:21 AM
Mike Knoll: reporter Hank Daniszewski's morning update:
As the murder trial of Michael Rafferty resumed on Tuesday, the court heard from more of his former friends and girlfriends.
Ann Tweedie was a childhood friend of Rafferty and went to school with him in Grade 6 in Drayton.
Rafferty moved away but he visited once in a while and they stayed in touch online.
In March 2009 he sent Tweedie a message saying he was dating Alexis Lane - a former schoolmate from Drayton and hoped to marry her.
The court also heard from Jennifer Etsell, another former Rafferty girlfriend who connected with him through dating website Plenty of Fish.
Etsell, a 30 year old medical secretary from Hangover, said she and Rafferty dated for about five months beginning April 2006.
She said they always used her car and they frequently drove down Hwy 6 between Hanover and Guelph where Rafferty was living. Tori Stafford's body was found off a rural side road close to Hey 6 north of Guelph.
Rafferty told Etsell he wanted to be a paramedic but was working as a dance instructor and landscaper.
Does anyone know how many miles highwat 6 extends and if there are many rural lanes running off of it? I'm getting more and more convinced that MTR would know about that lane on his many travels down that road, i can't accept that it was just a lane chosen at random.
Macright
04-17-2012, 11:23 AM
What was the point of having MR's ex Tweedie to testify? I bet that is why MR was smiling because she had nothing on him. Because to me the only link was MR saw her on POF. JMO
so far with this parade of women that the crown is presenting..it reminds me of the TV show "This is your Life"..not sure what the purpose is but I guess they need a filler..one would think that the employer's evidence of the work he was contracted to do in the area would be enough to establish that MR did indeed know the area... JMO
~n/t~
04-17-2012, 11:26 AM
so far with this parade of women that the crown is presenting..it reminds me of the TV show "This is your Life"..not sure what the purpose is but I guess they need a filler..one would think that the employer's evidence of the work the was contracted to do in the area would be enough to establish that MR did indeed know the area... JMO
We will have 11 witnesses (IIRC) testifying that he knew the area where Tori's remains were disposed of. I think that is overwhelming evidence to the fact that he knew where he was going which corroborates TLM's testimony.
IMO
tmhco
04-17-2012, 11:26 AM
Avery Moore (@AveryFreeFMNews)
4/17/12 9:28 AM
Etsell would take #Rafferty back to Hanover via Highway 6 through Fergus, Arthur and Mount Forest. Right past con. 6 where Tori's body found
Sailor Bug
04-17-2012, 11:27 AM
Does anyone know how many miles highwat 6 extends and if there are many rural lanes running off of it? I'm getting more and more convinced that MTR would know about that lane on his many travels down that road, i can't accept that it was just a lane chosen at random.
bbm
Yes It crosses a distance of 480 km (300 mi)
There are alot of roads that run off hiway 6
Ontario Highway 6 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
~n/t~
04-17-2012, 11:28 AM
I think the Crown was trying to show that MR was in the area of the crime scene, but Derstine pretty well mitigated that by asking the witness if they ever left Highway 6, and she said "no".
JMO
Which is hogwash because he admitted his client helped dispose the body. So we know he was there and now we know he knew where he was going and why.
Hello_Kitty
04-17-2012, 11:30 AM
"They re-connected, she said, in February of 2009, through the ubiquitous auspices of Facebook."
http://fullcomment.nationalpost.com/2012/04/11/christie-blatchford-accused-michael-rafferty-finally-shows-emotion-at-sight-of-ex-girlfriend/
Still, when he was arrested in the parking lot of the Goodlife, he was with JW.
Macright
04-17-2012, 11:33 AM
Which is hogwash because he admitted his client helped dispose the body. So we know he was there and now we know he knew where he was going and why.
my understanding is Dirk "suggested his client helped dispose of the body" not admitted...JMO major difference...IMO
Flossie JMO
04-17-2012, 11:36 AM
I have thought the same thing.
It certainly wouldn't have taken much to set TLM off. Given what we know about her, just about anything would do it. She was/is completely unstable.
Little by little, her testimony is breaking down under scrutiny.
On the weekend, Snoofer spotted where her journal writings where it possibly revealed she knew VS before the abduction, and we are reminded again today that she told her godmother she would do it again......Do what again? Kidnap and murder someone.....perhaps a little older?
I think TLM gave up enough information to intertwine it with the truth and make her story credible. But she slipped up here and there, and it is starting to show.
She supplied an accurate map of the actual crime scene, but claims foggy memory for some details about her story. LE couldn't find the carwash?
Hogwash........LE gave up looking for it because they knew it wasn't there.
I am wondering what her angle was for the lies and bits of truth?
She got the max sentence.............but look at where she is residing.
I have been wondering why they would put such a violent person as TLM in a setting that was obviously designed for women with lighter sentences and a chance at rehabilitation. Over half of the inmates are serving sentences of less than 40 months. Only 18% of the inmates are lifers.
It sounds more like a retirement village than a prison.
About the Institution
Grand Valley Institution (GVI) is a multi level facility located in Kitchener, Ontario. GVI opened in 1997 and can accommodate up to 129 inmates.
Inmates are housed in buildings (houses) arranged in campus style (clusters), one structured living environment house and one secure unit.
The Institution provides a positive and supportive environment focused mainly on women’s timely and safe reintegration.
Facility Characteristics
Institution for women offenders
Security level: multi-level
Date opened: 1997
Number of inmates: 123
Average length of sentences:
Less than 40 months: 51 per cent of inmates
40 months and over: 31 per cent of inmates
Life sentences: 18 per cent of inmates
Number of employees: 176
JMO
I have had similar thoughts running through my head, and ITA re the carwash, and breaking down.
Hello_Kitty
04-17-2012, 11:36 AM
bbm
Yes It crosses a distance of 480 km (300 mi)
There are alot of roads that run off hiway 6
Ontario Highway 6 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ontario_Highway_6)
I see that Port Dover part of highway 6. I was at a motorbike rally there once, december 13 (which happened to be a friday). Drove down from London.
Sailor Bug
04-17-2012, 11:40 AM
Mike Knoll: @all - legal arguments continue. (based on the many comments coming in, nothing is broken and we're still waiting to update once the jury returns.)
~n/t~
04-17-2012, 11:40 AM
my understanding is Dirk "suggested his client helped dispose of the body" not admitted...JMO major difference...IMO
That's good enough for me. A defense attorney "suggesting" such a scenario is a bomb shell in itself.
so far with this parade of women that the crown is presenting..it reminds me of the TV show "This is your Life"..not sure what the purpose is but I guess they need a filler..one would think that the employer's evidence of the work the was contracted to do in the area would be enough to establish that MR did indeed know the area... JMO
He would certainly have known the area in general, but it is very rural and there are a lot of concession roads and farmer lanes of all of those.
I have lived in London and the surrounding rural area all my life, and know a few concession roads in some areas...........but there would be thousands I am completely unaware of.
If.......it can be shown that MR knew the farm lane, because he dumped rocks there..........or picked up rocks from the farmer for landscaping work.....then we are getting somewhere.
Maybe that IS one farm lane that he DID know........
Not sure even then, if it proves much, other than he wanted to stop there and think about his situation or have everyone take a bathroom break.....or had chosen the place to commit the crimes.
It doesn't sound like anyone in the car had a bathroom stop for several hours, unless I missed something.....and nobody seems to be asking about it in court yet.
I am surprised it hasn't been asked........because it might answer some questions about VS not having her pants on.........or why they went into that country lane........
I would have thought the Crown would want to disclose anything they could learn about it...........to head the defense off at the pass...........so to speak.
JMO...........
JMO............
Kamille
04-17-2012, 11:41 AM
so far with this parade of women that the crown is presenting..it reminds me of the TV show "This is your Life"..not sure what the purpose is but I guess they need a filler..one would think that the employer's evidence of the work the was contracted to do in the area would be enough to establish that MR did indeed know the area... JMO
If the jury is paying close attention, this "parade of women" is showing that the defendent had a less than stellar moral code. And each one of them provides a little tidbit into what he is like as a person without really having to testify to it. The jury now knows that MR was familiar with the area, dated multiple women at the same time...even though there was one in particular that he claimed he wanted to marry that he was dating at the same time as TLM, and that for some reason his driver's license was suspended. They also know that for some reason he was living with relatives and not with either his mother or father as a pre-teen. They will likely never be privy to the reasons but it can give them cause for concern.
While they can't just bring in his past history, they can get around it in other ways. Which they have.
MOO
Sailor Bug
04-17-2012, 11:41 AM
I see that Port Dover part of highway 6. I was at a motorbike rally there once, december 13 (which happened to be a friday). Drove down from London.
we heard evidence from rafferty's former landscaping boss about his connection to the mt forest area, he worked at a landfill site 3 km from where Tori's body was found.
Rafferty KNEW the area very well.
jmo
Jezbel
04-17-2012, 11:42 AM
Does anyone have a guess on who the girl from Drayton was that he was happy with and wanted to Marry in April 2009? I have lost track LOL!
Alexis Lane was the girl. They dated from Feb 22 - April 1, 2009 I believe.
Hello_Kitty
04-17-2012, 11:43 AM
That's good enough for me. A defense attorney "suggesting" such a scenario is a bomb shell in itself.
Exactly nt - he could have suggested the accused wasn't there at all and only came back after TLM buried the body herself.
lightlady
04-17-2012, 11:44 AM
MOO
One thing that speaks to me of MR's guilt is his feelings toward TLM AFTER the murder as expressed to other people. He seemed almost fond of her, worrying about her getting woken by police in the night, talkign to someone about a girl turning her life around, he seemed to refer to her obliquely to others whenever he could.
This is in addition to him bringing her mom furniture, visiting her in detention, etc. (which could possibly be explained by him sucking up so she didn't rat him out, but not the others).
I somehow feel that MR was attracted in a bad way to the evil he saw in MTR. Possibly even empowered by feeling that he could have her use that evil as a show of affection for him. He just doesn't express the right feelings for someone that was surprised by someone that showed a terrible evil side they had never seen before.
Please excuse me if I remember any of this wrong, but overall this makes me believe that he was NOT surprised and he was fond of her in an odd way after the murder happened.
Sailor Bug
04-17-2012, 11:44 AM
Mike Knoll: Rafferty's connections to the area must run deeper.
Is Rafferty expected to testify?
No indication either way at this point
paris_paris
04-17-2012, 11:45 AM
Highway 6
Concession 6
Sideroad 6
666
Thinkzerz
04-17-2012, 11:47 AM
Alexis Lane was the girl. They dated from Feb 22 - April 1, 2009 I believe.
He also got emotional when she was on the stand.
Thinkzerz
04-17-2012, 11:47 AM
Is it correct that Tori's blood was only found on the area where the car door opens and closes?
Which is hogwash because he admitted his client helped dispose the body. So we know he was there and now we know he knew where he was going and why.
I was referring to the testimony of today's witness.
IMO.......the Crown was trying to show that MR "was there" as in knew that specific lane existed......before the day of the crime.
The witness testified they never left Highway 6........and as I understand it, the farmer lane is off a concession road.........not directly on Highway 6.
JMO........
Hello_Kitty
04-17-2012, 11:50 AM
Highway 6
Concession 6
Sideroad 6
666
Whoa! Creepy.
Kamille
04-17-2012, 11:52 AM
Highway 6
Concession 6
Sideroad 6
666
Interesting thought but it was sideroad 5E that they would have had to turn on to get to Concession Rd 6N. The same sideroad that he worked on. But the crime definitely pitted two evils together with one innocent child.
MOO
flipflop
04-17-2012, 11:52 AM
Does anyone know how many miles highwat 6 extends and if there are many rural lanes running off of it? I'm getting more and more convinced that MTR would know about that lane on his many travels down that road, i can't accept that it was just a lane chosen at random.
There are many sideroads that meet up with hwy 6. This lane is not one of them. This lane is off of SIDEROAD 6, sideroad 6 meets up with Highway 6. HTH
Macright
04-17-2012, 11:53 AM
He would certainly have known the area in general, but it is very rural and there are a lot of concession roads and farmer lanes of all of those.
I have lived in London and the surrounding rural area all my life, and know a few concession roads in some areas...........but there would be thousands I am completely unaware of.
If.......it can be shown that MR knew the farm lane, because he dumped rocks there..........or picked up rocks from the farmer for landscaping work.....then we are getting somewhere.
Maybe that IS one farm lane that he DID know........
Not sure even then, if it proves much, other than he wanted to stop there and think about his situation or have everyone take a bathroom break.....or had chosen the place to commit the crimes.
It doesn't sound like anyone in the car had a bathroom stop for several hours, unless I missed something.....and nobody seems to be asking about it in court yet.
I am surprised it hasn't been asked........because it might answer some questions about VS not having her pants on.........or why they went into that country lane........
I would have thought the Crown would want to disclose anything they could learn about it...........to head the defense off at the pass...........so to speak.
JMO...........
JMO............
to me it doesn't matter if he knew the lane previously because he was there whether by chance or previous knowledge... I think the witness (employer) established that on Friday that MR had worked in the general area... what I don't understand is why the crown is putting all his friends/GF's etc. on the stand..none of them to date has mentioned anything worthwhile other than the same old....:met on POF...had coffee/sex etc.) the fact that some have children doesn't make me go...OMG...that would be expected from most of these women as they all seem to be single parents... I did get a chuckle about the "Christian preference".. not sure if TLM would fit that description though...JMO
Jezbel
04-17-2012, 11:54 AM
I was referring to the testimony of today's witness.
IMO.......the Crown was trying to show that MR "was there" as in knew that specific lane existed......before the day of the crime.
The witness testified they never left Highway 6........and as I understand it, the farmer lane is off a concession road.........not directly on Highway 6.
JMO........
I see what you're saying but today's testimony isn't over yet, the crown isn't done.... there may be more testimony as to his knowledge of the area to come :)
Sailor Bug
04-17-2012, 11:54 AM
I was referring to the testimony of today's witness.
IMO.......the Crown was trying to show that MR "was there" as in knew that specific lane existed......before the day of the crime.
The witness testified they never left Highway 6........and as I understand it, the farmer lane is off a concession road.........not directly on Highway 6.
JMO........
Several of Rafferty's "girlfriends/dates" testified that he drove around the back roads and rafferty's former landscaping boss about his connection to the mt forest area, he worked at a landfill site 3 km from where Tori's body was found.
coincidence...I think not.
jmo
flipflop
04-17-2012, 11:54 AM
Interesting thought but it was sideroad 5E that they would have had to turn on to get to Concession Rd 6N. The same sideroad that he worked on. But the crime definitely pitted two evils together with one innocent child.
MOO
It is sideroad 5 which the landfill site is on. This is the otherside of hwy 6. Sideroad 5 turns into sideroad 6 after the bend on this road.
Jezbel
04-17-2012, 11:55 AM
Is it correct that Tori's blood was only found on the area where the car door opens and closes?
Also found on MR's gym bag, deep in the material, naked to the visible eye.
Kamille
04-17-2012, 11:55 AM
Is it correct that Tori's blood was only found on the area where the car door opens and closes?
Yes, one drop on the door frame right beside the back passenger seat of the car. Which in turn likely transferred to the rubber door moulding when the door was closed. Mixed with sperm cells from an unknown male. Unknown because the sperm cells were two minute to test for DNA identification. And one drop in the gym bag.
MOO
Macright
04-17-2012, 11:56 AM
Is it correct that Tori's blood was only found on the area where the car door opens and closes?
I believe that is correct...it could have splattered when she was thrown from the car..stomped on by TLM (she has admitted to that under oath) and then struck numerous times with the hammer that TLM purchased at the HD..JMO
Highway 6
Concession 6
Sideroad 6
666
Wow...........that is weird.........JMO
Salem
04-17-2012, 11:58 AM
STOP BICKERING NOW! This thread will be locked and important testimony will be lost.
STOP! IT IS NOT NECESSARY. MOVE PAST ANY POST YOU CANNOT RESPOND TO RESPECTFULLY.
Salem
flipflop
04-17-2012, 11:59 AM
Wow...........that is weird.........JMO
and weirder yet....if they left Home Depot in Guelph shortly after 5, they would have arrive at this lane around.....6
Sailor Bug
04-17-2012, 12:00 PM
<modsnip>
Mike Knoll: we have no confirmation one way or the other. I was thinking that it would be a silly thing to lie about as, if you're dating someone, I'd assume you'd end up dancing at some point.
<modsnip>
Mike Knoll: for everyone curious about transcripts, you can request certain sections or days or witnesses rather than the entire trial.
Kamille
04-17-2012, 12:01 PM
Several of Rafferty's "girlfriends/dates" testified that he drove around the back roads and rafferty's former landscaping boss about his connection to the mt forest area, he worked at a landfill site 3 km from where Tori's body was found.
coincidence...I think not.
jmo
Not to mention that TLM spent the majority of her life in Northern Ontario, doesn't appear to have ever driven a vehicle and has absolutely no connections to or knowledge of the area. So the suggestion that she directed him to drive there does not ring true to me at all.
MOO
to me it doesn't matter if he knew the lane previously because he was there whether by chance or previous knowledge... I think the witness (employer) established that on Friday that MR had worked in the general area... what I don't understand is why the crown is putting all his friends/GF's etc. on the stand..none of them to date has mentioned anything worthwhile other than the same old....:met on POF...had coffee/sex etc.) the fact that some have children doesn't make me go...OMG...that would be expected from most of these women as they all seem to be single parents... I did get a chuckle about the "Christian preference".. not sure if TLM would fit that description though...JMO
You're right...........and I am not even sure MR knowing about the lane is even going to be contested by the defense. They have already put the alternative theory of him being at the crime scene, albeit unknowingly, before the jury. I don't think it would be a good plan to change to another theory now.
As to the witnesses presented by the Crown..........I agree.
The last one sounded like a witness for the defense.
JMO........
Salem
04-17-2012, 12:03 PM
EVERYBODY - chill out and follow the tweets. I will review the thread after I take care of some other things.
If your post is argumentative in nature - don't post it. There is a zero tolerance policy here and I will be issuing TOs like passing out candy at a child's birthday party.
So don't go there. Any arguing found on this thread after this post will get the poster a TO. NO EXCUSES, NO EXPLANATIONS and no pm's from the mods.
Salem
Sailor Bug
04-17-2012, 12:04 PM
I think I saw you post earlier Mike that it is against the law in canada to try and speak with the jurors after the trial?
Mike Knoll: just to clarify - it's not illegal to try to speak with them but it is illegal for them to speak about it.
For those asking, jurors still not back in the courtroom.
Will court resume today with further witnesses? Or will it be a day for legal arguments?
Mike Knoll: we won't know until it happens.
Thinkzerz
04-17-2012, 12:04 PM
Not to mention that TLM spent the majority of her life in Northern Ontario, doesn't appear to have ever driven a vehicle and has absolutely no connections to or knowledge of the area. So the suggestion that she directed him to drive there does not ring true to me at all.
MOO
This is what makes me believe he is guilty of rape. JMO
Kamille
04-17-2012, 12:04 PM
RaffertyLFP: Tweedie met Rafferty when she was 11 years old in Grade 6 Rafferty was a neighbour and lived with aunt and uncle
RaffertyLFP: Tweedie said she and Rafferty were friends and walked to school together
She currently lives in Waterloo. Met Rafferty at age 11 in Dratyon.
She and Rafferty lived on the same block in Drayton. They were close friends. They walked to school together.
What happened to his story about growing up in a rural farmhouse outside of Kitchener that he told one of the women?
Sailor Bug
04-17-2012, 12:08 PM
What happened to his story about growing up in a rural farmhouse outside of Kitchener that he told one of the women?
Not sure. Rafferty did live with his Aunt and Uncle for a period of time.
jmo
Hello_Kitty
04-17-2012, 12:09 PM
Yes, one drop on the door frame right beside the back passenger seat of the car. Which in turn likely transferred to the rubber door moulding when the door was closed. Mixed with sperm cells from an unknown male. Unknown because the sperm cells were two minute to test for DNA identification. And one drop in the gym bag.
MOO
Againt, it's kind of telling that blood/semen (even if there wasn't enough dna to tell whose it was) would be found in that precise spot and not in the car where it would be most expected to be found(which it wasn't because car seat is gone so). What are the chances of that happening.
Jezbel
04-17-2012, 12:15 PM
Son they were at HD around 5pm, would have got to their location around 6pm ish, what time did the his cell phone ping at, do we know? Wasn't it around 7.30pm or so.
My questions is what were they doing in that area for so long?
Say if MR went for a walk, TLM killed Tori, stripped her half naked, then MR came back not long after and help cover and bury the body.... how long do you think that would take 1/2 - 45 mins max
Why then would they still be there another 1/2 hr - 45 mins after? I think that they would get the h*ll out of there in case the owner came along.
Say we go with TLM's testimony, they get there around 6pm, the assault begins, with a small break in between. So maybe 45 mins, TLM walks back, kills Tori. move and bury her body, maybe another 1/2 hour or so. Then they both go back to the car, MR washed himself with water from the bottles and gets dressed again, they chat about eating and covering up the tire tracks etc, so maybe another 15 mins which takes us to approx 7.30pm
I know what option I think...
tmhco
04-17-2012, 12:18 PM
Exactly nt - he could have suggested the accused wasn't there at all and only came back after TLM buried the body herself.
The defence knew they could never explain the heaviest rocks. They had to place him at the buriel. JMO
JayFriend
04-17-2012, 12:18 PM
If.......it can be shown that MR knew the farm lane, because he dumped rocks there..........or picked up rocks from the farmer for landscaping work.....then we are getting somewhere.
Maybe that IS one farm lane that he DID know........
Remember he did landscaping at the Rivertown land fill site, HWY 6 and Sideroad 5E, which leads to Concession 6N, the crime scene. It was mentioned here earlier that landscapers were allowed to gather rocks from farmers' rock piles.
~n/t~
04-17-2012, 12:19 PM
12:18
Mike Knoll: @noname - the law is in place to prevent that.
12:18
Comment From noname
What is stopping a rafferty supporter (if such exists) goes to the trial to deliberatly cause a mistrial by talking about what the jury does not hear?
12:18
Mike Knoll: @Guest - I assume so.
12:17
Comment From Guest
Will that information become available once this trial is done?
12:17
Mike Knoll: @guest - because the events of that trial could affect the jury's perception of this trial.
12:17
Comment From Guest
why would TLM trial still be publication ban, but not this one
12:16
Mike Knoll: @guest - what happened at that trial remains under publication ban.
12:15
Comment From guest
is there any where to read the tweets from TLM trial?
12:12
Mike Knoll: @Guest - contempt charges and a possible mistrial.
12:12
Comment From Guest
What would happen if you or someone in the court observing posted what the legal arguments are?
12:11
Mike Knoll: @Jo - we can only report on what the jury hears. It is assumed that the people in the courtroom hearing the arguments won't tell the jury what is being said. Media has a louder 'voice' than your average observer,
12:10
Comment From Jo
Why can't you report on the legal issue discussions? What is the reasoning since people in the court room can hear them.
12:09
Mike Knoll: @Guest - yes.
12:09
Comment From Guest
Are they still taking legal. Issues?
Hello_Kitty
04-17-2012, 12:19 PM
Son they were at HD around 5pm, would have got to their location around 6pm ish, what time did the his cell phone ping at, do we know? Wasn't it around 7.30pm or so.
7:47pm
Hello_Kitty
04-17-2012, 12:20 PM
The defence knew they could never explain the heaviest rocks. They had to place him at the buriel. JMO
Precisely, so even tho it was just a suggestion by Derstine, it sounds like that is what they are going with or he wouldn't have brought it up at all. So it's fine for us to think that this is what happened and discuss it.
~n/t~
04-17-2012, 12:20 PM
12:20
Mike Knoll: @Guest - yes. sorry if I misused the word 'trial' - also, for all those asking, TLM stands for Terri-Lynne McClintic.
12:19
Comment From Guest
didnt tlm skip trial and just plead and go to sentencing?
~n/t~
04-17-2012, 12:21 PM
*sigh* - It'll be almost lunch time and the jury is still out.
Jezbel
04-17-2012, 12:22 PM
7:47pm
Excellent, thanks HK :)
robynhood
04-17-2012, 12:22 PM
...hmm anyone near the court in London have any idea what the Crown and Defense are discussing or are they on LUNCH already???....OMG ..? royhood
myzzy
04-17-2012, 12:23 PM
Good afternoon everyone, thank you again for the tweet updates,, without you guys I for one would not know what was happening.
Since i have yet to hear about MR close family and friends one way or another i do think they will be testifying for the defence or did i miss any of the family and close friends?
Jezbel
04-17-2012, 12:25 PM
...hmm anyone near the court in London have any idea what the Crown and Defense are discussing or are they on LUNCH already???....OMG ..? royhood
They are discussing legal issues. The media nor members of the public are allowed to report on what is being said when the jury is not present.
They will probably break for lunch soon.
HTH
Sailor Bug
04-17-2012, 12:26 PM
For almost two years, Michael Rafferty worked at a landscaping company located just north of Guelph, Ont.
in 2006, Rafferty was on a three-person team that did work at the Riverstown Waste Facility, five kilometres from where the young girl's body was found.
Much of the work involved him travelling on backroads of these surrounding communities, said Cruickshank
Rachel Diwell told the court Friday she dated Rafferty for several months in 2006-2007 when she lived in Guelph. Their relationship often involved going on long drives.
"He always seemed to know where he was going or had a map of where we were going," she said. "We travelled on a lot of backroads to get to places."
http://www2.canada.com/nanaimodailynews/news/story.html?id=6453549
matou
04-17-2012, 12:26 PM
@AM980_Court (https://twitter.com/#%21/AM980_Court)
(https://twitter.com/#%21/AM980_Court/status/192287521001058304)The jury is now coming back to the courtroom.
matou
04-17-2012, 12:27 PM
@RaffertyLFP (https://twitter.com/#%21/RaffertyLFP)
(https://twitter.com/#%21/RaffertyLFP/status/192287906482749441)Justice Heeney tells jury the court was discussing legal issues Court is recessed for lunch until 1:45 p.m. More witnesses this afternoon
Sailor Bug
04-17-2012, 12:27 PM
RaffertyLFP: Jury is coming back in
The jury is now coming back to the courtroom.
RaffertyLFP: Justice Heeney tells jury the court was discussing legal issues Court is recessed for lunch until 1:45 p.m. More witnesses this afternoon
Heeney tells the jury they aren't finished with the legal issue they have been discussing. The jury has been excused until 1:45 for lunch.
Hello_Kitty
04-17-2012, 12:27 PM
...hmm anyone near the court in London have any idea what the Crown and Defense are discussing or are they on LUNCH already???....OMG ..? royhood
No one is allowed to discuss what they are discussing because the jury is not present.
~n/t~
04-17-2012, 12:27 PM
RaffertyLFP: Justice Heeney tells jury the court was discussing legal issues Court is recessed for lunch until 1:45 p.m. More witnesses this afternoon [via Twitter]
Steven D'Souza @cbcsteve
Jury being brought back in. Judge telling them legal issues haven't been sorted out, but will hear witnesses after lunch at 1:45 #sl
Flowercb
04-17-2012, 12:30 PM
Againt, it's kind of telling that blood/semen (even if there wasn't enough dna to tell whose it was) would be found in that precise spot and not in the car where it would be most expected to be found(which it wasn't because car seat is gone so). What are the chances of that happening.
He probably cleaned up the car, got rid of the car seat and didn't think to really scrub that area as it is a hidden area. This tells alot that this area was the only place where blood and sperm were found. As well as the fact that she was found with no bottoms on and TLM's story fits. It is only logical to review all the details even TLM's testimony to see if there is a connection. To disregard anything TLM said would be a grave mistake. MOO MOO
nursebeeme
04-17-2012, 12:31 PM
bumping up SoSueMe's warning: (everyone please re-read)
reposting SoSueMe's warning:
As some of you may have noticed, the members following this case are dropping in numbers. It's disheartening to us because we need and welcome discussion of both sides of every issue on Websleuths.
Zero tolerance means ZERO tolerance. Please discuss this case with respect to your fellow members. Subtle and veiled harassment and/or talking in code about other members will not be tolerated.
A word of caution on the Alerts in this forum. If you alert a post, make sure it is a clear violation of our Terms of Service. A difference of opinion is not a violation of TOS.
Please note that everything discussed in court and printed/tweeted is now within the realm of discussion. WS has never and does not now have a policy of "innocent until proven guilty." That is for the court room. Here, we discuss, speculate, theorize and judge according to the opinions we develop from following the case.
Keeping that in mind, abuse of our alert system is a good way to find yourself in timeout or worse. Abuse of the alert systems includes, but is not limited to:
Alerting repeatedly on the same poster;
Demanding a specific outcome;
Alerting on the same post more than once.
Once you have alerted a post, move on and don't question the decisions of our Administrators, Moderators or Owners.
Following this trial is very important to our members and we're going to see that they have their day in court. The "zero tolerance" policy in this forum will continue and it will be enforced.
Thank you and please carry on.
Sue aka SoSueMe
Websleuths Co-Owner
Flowercb
04-17-2012, 12:31 PM
RaffertyLFP: Justice Heeney tells jury the court was discussing legal issues Court is recessed for lunch until 1:45 p.m. More witnesses this afternoon [via Twitter]
Steven D'Souza @cbcsteve
Jury being brought back in. Judge telling them legal issues haven't been sorted out, but will hear witnesses after lunch at 1:45 #sl
I wish they had settled the Legal issues yesterday. This is moving so slowly. It is like throwing us a tid bit at a time and making us sit up "pretty". lol.
I wish I had some of the fun smiles and animated stuff back.
daisy.faithfull
04-17-2012, 12:54 PM
I wish they had settled the Legal issues yesterday. This is moving so slowly. It is like throwing us a tid bit at a time and making us sit up "pretty". lol.
I wish I had some of the fun smiles and animated stuff back.
So the lawyers are going to discuss whatever it is that needs to be discussed so the trial will actually resume when the jury returns from lunch?
Bravo
04-17-2012, 12:54 PM
A big Thank You to those posting the tweets
Bravo
04-17-2012, 12:56 PM
So the lawyers are going to discuss whatever it is that needs to be discussed so the trial will actually resume when the jury returns from lunch?
Assume such since the tweet states more witnesses this afternoon. Never know what can change last minute.
Hello_Kitty
04-17-2012, 01:01 PM
AM980.ca@AM980_Court
When the jury returns, we'll hear more testimony. Legal issues will be settled later.
~n/t~
04-17-2012, 01:04 PM
12:33
Mike Knoll: @guest - quite different in the US. they also have cameras in many courtrooms.
12:33
Comment From Guest
I have seen jurors from other major american cases interviewed on TV. Is that legal in the US but not here?
12:32
Mike Knoll: @Guest - no.
12:32
Comment From Guest
is rafferty cuffed while in his dock.
12:32
Mike Knoll: @Amanda - 9 women, 3 men.
12:31
Comment From Amanda
Sorry if I have missed it, but what does the jury consist of? How many females/males?
12:30
Mike Knoll: @GUEST - yes, that would be illegal.
12:30
Comment From GUEST
Im glad that they will not post the jury because they would probably get hounded! So lets say the trial is over whatever the outcome is, Is it illegal for them to go to the media or write a book?
12:30
Mike Knoll: @Edmund - no. Rafferty and TLM (when she was a witness) are put in a vehicle underground and driven out. No chance for yeliing.
12:29
Comment From Edmund
Has anyone during course of the trial yelled comments towards TLM or Rafferty in or outside of the courtroom?
12:26
Mike Knoll: @guest - no!
12:26
Comment From Guest
will they post who the jury is after the trial
http://www.lfpress.com/news/london/raffertytrial/2012/04/17/19642201.html
I love his Q&A sessions. I learn so much. :)
Wondergirl
04-17-2012, 01:07 PM
12:18
Comment From noname
What is stopping a rafferty supporter (if such exists) goes to the trial to deliberatly cause a mistrial by talking about what the jury does not hear?
12:18
Mike Knoll:
@noname - the law is in place to prevent that.
swedie
04-17-2012, 01:12 PM
I was pretty sure that TLM told her Grandma and that MR lawyer mentioned it to TLM on the stand and she didn't deny it. Not 100% sure though.
Yes it would be great if the family members on both sides are honest. Justice needs to be served.
According to TLM's grandmother, she hasn't seen TLM since around the age of eight.
http://www.thewhig.com/PrintArticle.aspx?e=1576637
Terri-Lynne was eight -- the same age as the girl she's now charged with abducting -- when her grandmother
last saw her. The memories of that little girl remain vivid.
"She was a sweet little girl," Nancy said. "She was sweet and special."
Upon returning with her mom to Woodstock, though, Terri-Lynne was "getting into trouble, hanging out with
the wrong people," McClintic says her family was told.
Hello_Kitty
04-17-2012, 01:16 PM
According to TLM's grandmother, she hasn't seen TLM since around the age of eight.
http://www.thewhig.com/PrintArticle.aspx?e=1576637
Terri-Lynne was eight -- the same age as the girl she's now charged with abducting -- when her grandmother
last saw her. The memories of that little girl remain vivid.
"She was a sweet little girl," Nancy said. "She was sweet and special."
Upon returning with her mom to Woodstock, though, Terri-Lynne was "getting into trouble, hanging out with
the wrong people," McClintic says her family was told.
Obviously the life with her mother didn't do her too good. I have a feeling that TLM was sexually abused more than once and CM didn't do much to stop it, even tho she says she says she did.
dilbert
04-17-2012, 01:24 PM
I love Mike Knoll's Q&A's too.
Comment From Guest
Is there any evidence that Rafferty raped Tori? Besides TLM. I know that Tori's body was decomposed....
Mike Knoll:
@Guest - there is no DNA evidence suggesting such. TLM's testimony and the fact she was found with only a shirt on and the remote location of where her remains were found may suggest this.
MOO
captaincanada
04-17-2012, 01:26 PM
So I had to go to Woodstock yesterday for business. First time I've been in the city. I was a passenger in the car. On the way out of town we stopped at a red light, I look to my right and see this dumpy blue complex. I look at the address and it says "74". Sure enough, 74 Wilson street. It gave me the creeps!!
Hopeful One
04-17-2012, 01:29 PM
According to TLM's grandmother, she hasn't seen TLM since around the age of eight.
http://www.thewhig.com/PrintArticle.aspx?e=1576637
Terri-Lynne was eight -- the same age as the girl she's now charged with abducting -- when her grandmother
last saw her. The memories of that little girl remain vivid.
"She was a sweet little girl," Nancy said. "She was sweet and special."
Upon returning with her mom to Woodstock, though, Terri-Lynne was "getting into trouble, hanging out with
the wrong people," McClintic says her family was told.
That article is really messed up! Someone didn't proofread before publishing, apparently. ;)
nursebeeme
04-17-2012, 01:39 PM
the subtle back and forth is quite easy to see so please do not say you have not been fairly warned.
this lands at random
Jezbel
04-17-2012, 01:43 PM
I love Mike Knoll's Q&A's too.
MOO
Me too :D
I lol'd at this one:
Comment From Interested
there are many references to Rafferty claiming to be a dance instructor - do you recall if there has there been a confirmation of this claim ? Also, thank you for the ongoing updates
Mike Knoll: @Interested - we have no confirmation one way or the other. I was thinking that it would be a silly thing to lie about as, if you're dating someone, I'd assume you'd end up dancing at some point.
Sailor Bug
04-17-2012, 01:45 PM
Wondergirl
I LOVE your avatar...so precious
Wondergirl
04-17-2012, 01:47 PM
Wondergirl
I LOVE your avatar...so precious
Thanks, Sailor Bug, I thought so too.
I found it on Tori's Memorial Thread here at Websleuths last night. Sillybilly posted it there.
Sailor Bug
04-17-2012, 01:47 PM
When the jury returns, we'll hear more testimony. Legal issues will be settled later.
RaffertyLFP: court is resuming jury is coming in
The jury is returning to the courtroom.
Jezbel
04-17-2012, 01:54 PM
Thanks, Sailor Bug, I thought so too.
I found it on Tori's Memorial Thread here at Websleuths last night. Sillybilly posted it there.
There is a memorial thread?
~n/t~
04-17-2012, 01:54 PM
RaffertyLFP: court is resuming jury is coming in [via Twitter]
Sailor Bug
04-17-2012, 01:54 PM
RaffertyLFP: Next witness is coming in. Joy Woods Crown is moving on to next chapter - the weekend of May 15th
The next witness is Joy Woods. Kevin Gowdey says the case has moved on to it's next chapter, the weekend of May 15th (2009),
Joy Woods lives in Woodstock. She has three children.
RaffertyLFP: Woods is 39, Woodstock resident, mother of 3 In 2009 she was taking university sociology classes
~n/t~
04-17-2012, 01:56 PM
RaffertyLFP: Next witness is coming in. Joy Woods Crown is moving on to next chapter - the weekend of May 15th [via Twitter]
Well, I guess we can assume the unresolved legal issues had to do with the Mt. Forest Chapter if they're moving on to the next one. IMO
Sailor Bug
04-17-2012, 01:56 PM
RaffertyLFP: Woods also met Rafferty on Plenty of Fish on April 11- later exchanged numbers
In 2009, she was finishing university courses. She met Rafferty on Plenty of Fish on April 11th.
RaffertyLFP: Woods says Rafferty visited her at home -when out a few times for dinner. He claimed he was construction contractor and dance instructor
She met Rafferty at her home on April 16th. They went our a few times for dinner. He said he was in contracting and a dance instructor.
RaffertyLFP: Rafferty told her he had a degree in kiniesiology and culinary arts, They went to dinners in London and Oakville
~n/t~
04-17-2012, 01:57 PM
Steven D'Souza @cbcsteve
Back from lunch. Joy Woods on stand now. She was there the night #Rafferty was arrested #sl
RaffertyLFP: Woods also met Rafferty on Plenty of Fish on April 11- later exchanged numbers [via Twitter]
RaffertyLFP: Woods is 39, Woodstock resident, mother of 3 In 2009 she was taking university sociology classes [via Twitter]
mkozub
04-17-2012, 01:57 PM
So I had to go to Woodstock yesterday for business. First time I've been in the city. I was a passenger in the car. On the way out of town we stopped at a red light, I look to my right and see this dumpy blue complex. I look at the address and it says "74". Sure enough, 74 Wilson street. It gave me the creeps!!
I lived there for about 12 years and my family still lives there....every time I see that house it gives me the heebie jeebies.
~n/t~
04-17-2012, 01:57 PM
Steven D'Souza @cbcsteve
Woods met Rafferty on dating web site Plenty of Fish on Apr. 11/09 (three days after Tori's disappearance) #sl
Wondergirl
04-17-2012, 01:59 PM
1:54
http://a0.twimg.com/profile_images/1862937618/trialavatar_normal.jpg (http://twitter.com/RaffertyLFP)RaffertyLFP:
Next witness is coming in. Joy Woods Crown is moving on to next chapter - the weekend of May 15th [via T
Sailor Bug
04-17-2012, 02:01 PM
Also told her he had a masters in culinary.
RaffertyLFP: Woods said they always took her car on trips
RaffertyLFP: Woods recalls hearing of Tori's disappearance on April 9. She posted a pic of her on Facebook, Rafferty seemed very concerned
dilbert
04-17-2012, 02:02 PM
Me too :D
I lol'd at this one:
Comment From Interested
there are many references to Rafferty claiming to be a dance instructor - do you recall if there has there been a confirmation of this claim ? Also, thank you for the ongoing updates
Mike Knoll: @Interested - we have no confirmation one way or the other. I was thinking that it would be a silly thing to lie about as, if you're dating someone, I'd assume you'd end up dancing at some point.
LOL I laughed a that one too. Whenever they talk about him saying he was a dance instructor, I think of him having two left feet when it comes to actually dancing. Then I think of Eugene Levy in that movie, Best in Show, his character actually had two left feet!
~n/t~
04-17-2012, 02:05 PM
Steven D'Souza @cbcsteve
Woods says they talked about Tori Stafford in small talk. Says he shared her concern about little girl and both hoped she would be found #sl
Sailor Bug
04-17-2012, 02:05 PM
RaffertyLFP: Woods said they continued to socialize for a month They planned trip to US on May 15
RaffertyLFP: Woods said Rafferty showed up hour late for US trip, Explained he had been to a court appearance for an 18 year old female friend
RaffertyLFP: Rafferty said he was concerned about the teenager Her mother had cancer and was on drugs he said
She and Rafferty planned to go to the States on May 15th, were to leave in the morning around 9. He arrived at 10:35.
~n/t~
04-17-2012, 02:06 PM
Woods said they went to several shoe stores but Rafferty could not find the shoes he wanted [via Twitter]
2:04
RaffertyLFP: Rafferty said he was concerned about the teenager Her mother had cancer and was on drugs he said [via Twitter]
2:03
RaffertyLFP: Woods said Rafferty showed up hour late for US trip, Explained he had been to a court appearance for an 18 year old female friend [via Twitter]
2:02
RaffertyLFP: Woods said they continued to socialize for a month They planned trip to US on May 15 [via Twitter]
2:01
RaffertyLFP: Woods said Rafferty told her a daughter of a friend of his played with Tori [via Twitter]
2:00
RaffertyLFP: Woods recalls hearing of Tori's disappearance on April 9. She posted a pic of her on Facebook, Rafferty seemed very concerned [via Twitter]
1:59
RaffertyLFP: Woods said they always took her car on trips. [via Twitter]
1:59
RaffertyLFP: Rafferty told her he had a degree in kiniesiology and culinary arts, They went to dinners in London and Oakville [via Twitter]
1:58
RaffertyLFP: Woods says Rafferty visited her at home -when out a few times for dinner. He claimed he was construction contractor and dance instructor [via Twitter]
1:56
RaffertyLFP: Woods also met Rafferty on Plenty of Fish on April 11- later exchanged numbers [via Twitter]
1:55
RaffertyLFP: Woods is 39, Woodstock resident, mother of 3 In 2009 she was taking university sociology classes [via Twitter]
Sailor Bug
04-17-2012, 02:06 PM
RaffertyLFP: Woods said they went to several shoe stores but Rafferty could not find the shoes he wanted
Woods said he mentioned being upset about a 18 year old girl he knew who was in court. Also said he was upset about her mother.
The court date was why he was late. They crossed the border at Port Huron. He was looking for a specific style of Puna shoes.
Sailor Bug
04-17-2012, 02:07 PM
RaffertyLFP: Woods said they were separated at the mall for about 20 minutes. Rafferty went to look for the Pumas but did not find them
RaffertyLFP: Woods said they went to several shoe stores but Rafferty could not find the shoes he wanted
They shopped at Lakeside Mall. Rafferty was "adamant" about finding the shoes he wanted. He never described what he wanted, of bought any.
RaffertyLFP: They got back from the US around 5:30 p.m. next day Woods got call from Rafferty that police at his door asking about Tori
~n/t~
04-17-2012, 02:07 PM
Steven D'Souza @cbcsteve
on May 15/09, Woods says she and #Rafferty went shopping to U.S. Says Rafferty looking for Puma shoes #sl
Steven D'Souza @cbcsteve
Woods says #Rafferty had been concerned about a woman in jail and her mother #sl
Wondergirl
04-17-2012, 02:07 PM
2:02
http://a0.twimg.com/profile_images/1862937618/trialavatar_normal.jpg (http://twitter.com/RaffertyLFP)RaffertyLFP:
Woods said they continued to socialize for a month They planned trip to US on May 15 [via Twitter] http://cdnsl.coveritlive.com/templates/coveritlive/images/icons/fb_share2.png
2:01
http://a0.twimg.com/profile_images/1862937618/trialavatar_normal.jpg (http://twitter.com/RaffertyLFP)RaffertyLFP:
Woods said Rafferty told her a daughter of a friend of his played with Tori [via Twitter] http://cdnsl.coveritlive.com/templates/coveritlive/images/icons/fb_share2.png
2:00
http://a0.twimg.com/profile_images/1862937618/trialavatar_normal.jpg (http://twitter.com/RaffertyLFP)RaffertyLFP:
Woods recalls hearing of Tori's disappearance on April 9. She posted a pic of her on Facebook, Rafferty seemed very concerned [via Twitter] http://cdnsl.coveritlive.com/templates/coveritlive/images/icons/fb_share2.png
1:59
http://a0.twimg.com/profile_images/1862937618/trialavatar_normal.jpg (http://twitter.com/RaffertyLFP)RaffertyLFP:
Woods said they always took her car on trips. [via Twitter]
Wondergirl
04-17-2012, 02:08 PM
Avery Moore @AveryFreeFMNews (https://twitter.com/#%21/AveryFreeFMNews)
Woods says they went out for dinners. Says she and Rafferty talked about Tori's disappearance. He came to watch daughters gymnastics.
Wondergirl
04-17-2012, 02:09 PM
2:07
http://a0.twimg.com/profile_images/1862937618/trialavatar_normal.jpg (http://twitter.com/RaffertyLFP)RaffertyLFP:
They got back from the US around 5:30 p.m. next day Woods got call from Rafferty that police at his door asking about Tori [via Twitter]
:08http://a0.twimg.com/profile_images/1862937618/trialavatar_normal.jpg (http://twitter.com/RaffertyLFP)RaffertyLFP:
Woods said Rafferty was upset that police questioned him about Tori, He seemed to feel police suspected him, Woods told him not to worry [via Twitter]
Sailor Bug
04-17-2012, 02:09 PM
RaffertyLFP: Woods said Rafferty was upset that police questioned him about Tori, He seemed to feel police suspected him, Woods told him not to worry
They got back at 5:30 that night. They discussed getting together on the weekend. No concrete plans.
Rafferty called her on May 16th (the next day). He said the police asked him about Tori. He was upset. He felt he was being blamed.
Sailor Bug
04-17-2012, 02:10 PM
RaffertyLFP: Woods met Rafferty at Williams coffee pub in London on Sunday 17th
He couldn't figure out why he was being blamed. He was upset. She assured him they were asking lots of people.
Sailor Bug
04-17-2012, 02:11 PM
RaffertyLFP: Rafferty wanted to go back to States on Monday 18th Woods had Rafferty's birth certificate.Woods was planning trip to Las Vegas
They met the next day. At a Williams in London. Rafferty said he needed his birth certificate back (she had it from prior trip).
He was going to the US on the 18th. She planned on leaving on the 20th for Vegas.
RaffertyLFP: On following day Rafferty called her from White Oaks Mall saying he had bought clothes for Woods for her Vegas trip
~n/t~
04-17-2012, 02:12 PM
Steven D'Souza @cbcsteve
Woods: "He seemed to feel the police were blaming him for taking Tori.” I assured him that if he hadn’t he had nothing to worry about. #sl
Steven D'Souza @cbcsteve
Upon return from U.S., Woods says #Rafferty called her upset that police had come to question him about #Tori Stafford's disappearance #sl
Sailor Bug
04-17-2012, 02:12 PM
RaffertyLFP: He later called to drop off stuff for her Vegas trip and they arranged to meet in Goodlife parking lot
He called her from White Oaks Mall, said he would buy her things for Vegas. She wasn't comfortable with it. He also bought her kids things.
Rafferty called her around 7 on May 19th. Said he wanted to give her the stuff. She offered to meet at GoodLife parking lot.
RaffertyLFP: Woods said Rafferty that he needed a new Blackberry because his had got wet and was damaged
Wondergirl
04-17-2012, 02:13 PM
Avery Moore @AveryFreeFMNews (https://twitter.com/#%21/AveryFreeFMNews)
Woods says #Rafferty (https://twitter.com/#%21/search/%23Rafferty) said he was planning on going to the States.
(https://twitter.com/#)
Wondergirl
04-17-2012, 02:13 PM
Avery Moore @AveryFreeFMNews (https://twitter.com/#%21/AveryFreeFMNews)
Woods says on May 19th #Rafferty (https://twitter.com/#%21/search/%23Rafferty) called her from White Oaks Mall to ask her sizes, wanted to buy her clothes for a Vegas trip.
(https://twitter.com/#)
Sailor Bug
04-17-2012, 02:14 PM
RaffertyLFP: They met at Goodlife parking lot in Wooodstock on Hwy 59 about 7:30 p.m
Rafferty also said he was at white oaks to buy a new blackberry, told her his had gotten wet.
They met 7:30ish. He pulled in beside her in the parking lot.
RaffertyLFP: Woods said she got there first. Rafferty arrived and put Vegas gift in her car
Wondergirl
04-17-2012, 02:14 PM
2:11
http://a0.twimg.com/profile_images/1862937618/trialavatar_normal.jpg (http://twitter.com/RaffertyLFP)RaffertyLFP:
Rafferty wanted to go back to States on Monday 18th Woods had Rafferty's birth certificate.Woods was planning trip to Las Vegas [via Twitter]
2:13
http://a0.twimg.com/profile_images/1862937618/trialavatar_normal.jpg (http://twitter.com/RaffertyLFP)RaffertyLFP:
Woods said Rafferty that he needed a new Blackberry because his had got wet and was damaged [via Twitter]
Wondergirl
04-17-2012, 02:15 PM
I am confused.
Did Rafferty go to the US with JW, say he was going to the US, or actually go to the US that weekend?
Steven D'Souza @cbcsteve (https://twitter.com/#%21/cbcsteve)
Upon return from U.S., Woods says #Rafferty (https://twitter.com/#%21/search/%23Rafferty) called her upset that police had come to question him about #Tori (https://twitter.com/#%21/search/%23Tori) Stafford's disappearance #sl (https://twitter.com/#%21/search/%23sl)
Sailor Bug
04-17-2012, 02:16 PM
RaffertyLFP: A police officer came and arrested Rafferty at that point. Police asked for her ID and questioned her. They confiscated her car
(Gowdey mistakenly bounced around in the questions, now back to May 19th)
Rafferty put the bags in her car. Police then arrested Rafferty. 20 officers were there.
RaffertyLFP: Woods said police also wanted her laptop. She said she had no idea what was going on
Sailor Bug
04-17-2012, 02:17 PM
RaffertyLFP: Court is shown slide of Woods car with bags that Rafferty brought to her inside
Rafferty went with the police. She also went to the station with the officer. asked for Woods car/lap top. didn't know why he was arrested
Showing photos of Woods car. There are shopping bags in the passenger area.
~n/t~
04-17-2012, 02:18 PM
I am confused.
Did Rafferty go to the US with JW, say he was going to the US, or actually go to the US that weekend?
The way I understand it, they went the first time on May 15th. and then she told him she was going to Vegas and he told her he wanted to go (May 19th). IMO
Sailor Bug
04-17-2012, 02:19 PM
RaffertyLFP: Court is shown slide of Woods car with bags that Rafferty brought to her inside
RaffertyLFP: Cross-examination of Woods begins Derstine asks about farmland north of Woodstock for some reason
JayFriend
04-17-2012, 02:19 PM
Me too :D
I lol'd at this one:
Comment From Interested
there are many references to Rafferty claiming to be a dance instructor - do you recall if there has there been a confirmation of this claim ? Also, thank you for the ongoing updates
Mike Knoll: @Interested - we have no confirmation one way or the other. I was thinking that it would be a silly thing to lie about as, if you're dating someone, I'd assume you'd end up dancing at some point.
It looks like on most of his dates he skipped the dancing part.
~n/t~
04-17-2012, 02:19 PM
Steven D'Souza @cbcsteve
Three days later Woods says Rafferty called her from White Oaks mall, said he was buying clothes for her for trip to Vegas #sl
Sailor Bug
04-17-2012, 02:20 PM
No more questions from Gowdey. Derstine asking about driving north of Woodstock
He suggests there are lots of different farmlands and paths that are secluded just north of Woodstock. She agrees. No more questions.
RaffertyLFP: Woods said there is a lot of farmland norht of Woodstock no further questions
The crown has called Constable James Brady.
RaffertyLFP: Brady is OPP officer 27 year veteran of policing Former Det.Constable with Woodstock Police
dilbert
04-17-2012, 02:21 PM
Derstine asks the most obscure questions.
AM980.ca @AM980_Court
He suggests there are lots of different farmlands and paths that are secluded just north of Woodstock. She agrees. No more questions.
MOO
Sailor Bug
04-17-2012, 02:22 PM
RaffertyLFP: Brady was involved in Stafford case - had job of enhancing surveillance video and interviewed witnesses
Brady is with the OPP. He's been an officer for 27 years. Worked with Oxford Community Police in 2009. In drug unit.
RaffertyLFP: Brady interviewed employees of Bell store in London about Rafferty buying a Blackberry
He interviewed various associates of the accused in the Stafford case.
Brady also obtained evidence from Bell employees at Masonville Mall in London. Investigators were told Rafferty had a blackberry
~n/t~
04-17-2012, 02:22 PM
RaffertyLFP: Woods said there is a lot of farmland norht of Woodstock no further questions [via Twitter]
RaffertyLFP: Cross-examination of Woods begins Derstine asks about farmland north of Woodstock for some reason [via Twitter]
lol
Hello_Kitty
04-17-2012, 02:25 PM
Mind this starts at the bottom:
AM980.ca@AM980_Court
The crown has called Constable James Brady.
AM980.ca@AM980_Court
He suggests there are lots of different farmlands and paths that are secluded just north of Woodstock. She agrees. No more questions.
AM980.ca@AM980_Court
No more questions from Gowdey. Derstine asking about driving north of Woodstock.
AM980.ca@AM980_Court
Showing photos of Woods car. There are shopping bags in the passenger area.
AM980.ca@AM980_Court
Rafferty put the bags in her car. Police then arrested Rafferty. 20 officers were there.
AM980.ca@AM980_Court
(Gowdey mistakenly bounced around in the questions, now back to May 19th)
AM980.ca@AM980_Court
They met 7:30ish. He pulled in beside her in the parking lot.
AM980.ca@AM980_Court
Rafferty also said he was at white oaks to buy a new blackberry, told her his had gotten wet.
AM980.ca@AM980_Court
Rafferty called her around 7 on May 19th. Said he wanted to give her the stuff. She offered to meet at GoodLife parking lot.
AM980.ca@AM980_Court
He called her from White Oaks Mall, said he would buy her things for Vegas. She wasn't comfortable with it. He also bought her kids things.
AM980.ca@AM980_Court
He was going to the US on the 18th. She planned on leaving on the 20th for Vegas.
AM980.ca@AM980_Court
He was going to the US on the 18th. She planned on leaving on the 20th for Vegas.
AM980.ca@AM980_Court
They met the next day. At a Williams in London. Rafferty said he needed his birth certificate back (she had it from prior trip).
AM980.ca@AM980_Court
He couldn't figure out why he was being blamed. He was upset. She assured him they were asking lots of people.
AM980.ca@AM980_Court
Rafferty called her on May 16th (the next day). He said the police asked him about Tori. He was upset. He felt he was being blamed.
AM980.ca@AM980_Court
They got back at 5:30 that night. They discussed getting together on the weekend. No concrete plans.
AM980.ca@AM980_Court
They shopped at Lakeside Mall. Rafferty was "adamant" about finding the shoes he wanted. He never described what he wanted, of bought any.
AM980.ca@AM980_Court
The court date was why he was late. They crossed the border at Port Huron. He was looking for a specific style of Puna shoes.
AM980.ca@AM980_Court
Woods said he mentioned being upset about a 18 year old girl he knew who was in court. Also said he was upset about her mother.
AM980.ca@AM980_Court
She and Rafferty planned to go to the States on May 15th, were to leave in the morning around 9. He arrived at 10:35.
AM980.ca@AM980_Court
Woods says it was a horrible act and she and Rafferty both hoped Tori was found.
AM980.ca@AM980_Court
Rafferty "seemed very concerned", mentioned a friend who's daughter knew Tori. It came up in "small talk" quite a bit afterwards.
AM980.ca@AM980_Court
Woods usually drove when they met. She was "very aware" of Tori case. Heard about it April 9th.
AM980.ca@AM980_Court
Also told her he had a masters in culinary.
AM980.ca@AM980_Court
She met Rafferty at her home on April 16th. They went our a few times for dinner. He said he was in contracting and a dance instructor.
AM980.ca@AM980_Court
In 2009, she was finishing university courses. She met Rafferty on Plenty of Fish on April 11th.
AM980.ca@AM980_Court
Joy Woods lives in Woodstock. She has three children.
1:55 PM - 17 Apr
AM980.ca@AM980_Court
is Joy Woods. Kevin Gowdey says the case has moved on to it's next chapter, the weekend of May 15th (2009),
Sailor Bug
04-17-2012, 02:25 PM
RaffertyLFP: On June 1 Brady started tracking Rafferty's Blackberry account, Started with Rogers in Woodstock - they suggested Bell at White Oaks London
Rafferty was not a client at Rogers in Woodstock. Data pointed investigators at Bell's London location.
RaffertyLFP: Bell employees in White Oaks provided Brady with info on Rafferty's cellphone
Bell employees gave Brady Rafferty's cell phone information.
crazyladi
04-17-2012, 02:26 PM
2:11
http://a0.twimg.com/profile_images/1862937618/trialavatar_normal.jpg (http://twitter.com/RaffertyLFP)RaffertyLFP:
Rafferty wanted to go back to States on Monday 18th Woods had Rafferty's birth certificate.Woods was planning trip to Las Vegas [I][via Twitter]
Thank God they caught him before he fled....I stated before why didnt he take off and I think I got my answer. He was going to but the LE arrested him before he got the chance. JMO
Oldsoul2
04-17-2012, 02:27 PM
And he tries to use another women. Does this man ever drive his own car?
Sailor Bug
04-17-2012, 02:27 PM
RaffertyLFP: Brady said Bell employees told him that Rafferty was customer at Masonville store on May 14th
RaffertyLFP: Bell employees gave Brady an address and e-mail for Rafferty
Bell employees gave Brady Rafferty's cell phone information.
Bravo
04-17-2012, 02:28 PM
Is it just me or does Rafferty appear to have an obsession with shoes? How unusual.
Wondergirl
04-17-2012, 02:28 PM
2:27
http://a0.twimg.com/profile_images/1862937618/trialavatar_normal.jpg (http://twitter.com/RaffertyLFP)RaffertyLFP:
Brady said Bell employees told him that Rafferty was customer at Masonville store on May 14th [via Twitter] http://cdnsl.coveritlive.com/templates/coveritlive/images/icons/fb_share2.png
2:26
http://a0.twimg.com/profile_images/1862937618/trialavatar_normal.jpg (http://twitter.com/RaffertyLFP)RaffertyLFP:
Bell employees in White Oaks provided Brady with info on Rafferty's cellphone [via Twitter] http://cdnsl.coveritlive.com/templates/coveritlive/images/icons/fb_share2.png
2:25
http://a0.twimg.com/profile_images/1862937618/trialavatar_normal.jpg (http://twitter.com/RaffertyLFP)RaffertyLFP:
On June 1 Brady started tracking Rafferty's Blackberry account, Started with Rogers in Woodstock - they suggested Bell at White Oaks London [via Twitter]
Wondergirl
04-17-2012, 02:28 PM
2:28
http://a0.twimg.com/profile_images/1862937618/trialavatar_normal.jpg (http://twitter.com/RaffertyLFP)RaffertyLFP:
Bell employees gave Brady an address and e-mail for Rafferty [via Twitter]
Bravo
04-17-2012, 02:29 PM
I was thinking same. Was he planning to run State side.
Sailor Bug
04-17-2012, 02:29 PM
RaffertyLFP: Brady also got a cellphone number and date of purchase for Rafferty's phone - Jan 11 2007 he bought Blackberry Curve 8830 with GPS
Bell provided Rafferty's email address and postal address.
Brady was given a date of purchase for Rafferty's blackberry. In January 2007. It was a curve 8830. He asked for extended warranty and GPS.
Sailor Bug
04-17-2012, 02:30 PM
RaffertyLFP: Brady said the GPS capability caught his attention [via Twitter]
Brady was given a date of purchase for Rafferty's blackberry. In January 2007. It was a curve 8830. He asked for extended warranty and GPS.
Brady "felt that was important". Derstine objects when Carnegie asks him why. Now content.
RaffertyLFP: He got Rafferty's number <modsnip>
crazyladi
04-17-2012, 02:31 PM
Is it just me or does Rafferty appear to have an obsession with shoes? How unusual.
Or he was trying to replace the shoes he had thown away with blood on it?? Just a thought, not concrete evidence :)
Sailor Bug
04-17-2012, 02:32 PM
RaffertyLFP: Brady was also told there was a new phone for Rafferty recently bought from Masonville store
Brady says the GPS add on was just somethingn that caught his eye. No particular reason.
Rafferty also had a new phone, Brady was told.
RaffertyLFP: Brady talked to Masonville employee who sold Rafferty a phone on May 14 2009. Employee said Rafferty complained, wanted new one
~n/t~
04-17-2012, 02:34 PM
Or he was trying to replace the shoes he had thown away with blood on it?? Just a thought, not concrete evidence :)
The Puma shoes he was seen in the surveillance videos. IMO
Hello_Kitty
04-17-2012, 02:34 PM
Avery Moore @AveryFreeFMNews (https://twitter.com/#%21/AveryFreeFMNews)
Woods says they went out for dinners. Says she and Rafferty talked about Tori's disappearance. He came to watch daughters gymnastics.
For a guy that had just met this women, why would he go watch her at gymnastics. I think it took at least 6 months before I met my BF's two daughters.
Sailor Bug
04-17-2012, 02:34 PM
Brady spoke to the sales person who dealt with Rafferty on May 14th. Rafferty had a list of complaints and wanted a replacement.
Sales person also told Brady Rafferty had 20 free calls to one person on his account. It was an option.
RaffertyLFP: Brady said Rafferty traded in his old phone - Rafferty claimed the battery wasn't holding charge and headsets didn't work
daisy.faithfull
04-17-2012, 02:35 PM
I love Mike Knoll's Q&A's too.
Comment From Guest
Is there any evidence that Rafferty raped Tori? Besides TLM. I know that Tori's body was decomposed....
Mike Knoll:
@Guest - there is no DNA evidence suggesting such. TLM's testimony and the fact she was found with only a shirt on and the remote location of where her remains were found may suggest this.
MOO
:moo: Thereis a big difference between entering something into evidence that actually exists and making a suggestion that something happened, not because you are saying it actually did happen, but just because it's a possibility.
Of course it is because the Crown bears the burden of proof. All evidence is a suggestion of what may or may not have occurred that the jury looks at in order to determine their verdict. There is a huge difference between evidence that suggests something did or did not take place depending upon the individual juror evaluating the evidence and Derstine's alternate scenario suggestions.
Bravo
04-17-2012, 02:36 PM
Or he was trying to replace the shoes he had thown away with blood on it?? Just a thought, not concrete evidence :)
Likely reason he was looking for an exact Puma style while shopping in Port Huron. Seems other references to shoes peaked my curiosity aside from your very valid point. I don't have a link just going on memory.
Sailor Bug
04-17-2012, 02:36 PM
RaffertyLFP: The Bell employee offered loaner phone and Rafferty's original phone may be repaired
RaffertyLFP: Brady said police tracked down original Rafferty phone at RIM and police sought warrant to get it along with phone records
Rafferty's original phone was exchanged. The phone was sent in to Bell, to be fixed, if possible.
Police got a warrant for Rafferty's phone records. His original phone was tracked down by police.
The phone was located at RIM.
Now showing Rafferty's account summary to the court. Log of his usage.
RaffertyLFP: Brady said police tracked down original Rafferty phone at RIM and police sought warrant to get it along with phone records
~n/t~
04-17-2012, 02:38 PM
We're starting to see his attempt at covering his tracks now.
1) Not using his car
2) Puma Shoes
3) New Cellphone
He was starting to get paranoid. Perhaps something TLM told him? IMO
matou
04-17-2012, 02:40 PM
@AM980_Court (https://twitter.com/#%21/AM980_Court)
(https://twitter.com/#%21/AM980_Court/status/192320848215027714)Police got a warrant for Rafferty's phone records. His original phone was tracked down by police.
@AM980_Court (https://twitter.com/#%21/AM980_Court)
The phone was located at RIM.
Sailor Bug
04-17-2012, 02:40 PM
Now showing Rafferty's account summary to the court. Log of his usage.
Bill was sent May 19th, 2009.
RaffertyLFP: Court is looking at Rafferty's cellphone records from April 18 - May 18 total bill about $239 - dozens of billed calls
There are itemized calls on pages 5-16 of the phone bill.
Last call shown was May 18th on original bill. Next bill has May 19th info.
RaffertyLFP: Court is looking at Rafferty phone bill April 18-May 19 dozens of billed calls - total bill over $300
matou
04-17-2012, 02:41 PM
@AM980_Court (https://twitter.com/#%21/AM980_Court)
(https://twitter.com/#%21/AM980_Court/status/192321248544563201)Now showing Rafferty's account summary to the court. Log of his usage.
@AM980_Court (https://twitter.com/#%21/AM980_Court)
(https://twitter.com/#%21/AM980_Court/status/192321427624570883)Bill was sent May 19th, 2009.
matou
04-17-2012, 02:41 PM
@AM980_Court (https://twitter.com/#%21/AM980_Court)
(https://twitter.com/#%21/AM980_Court/status/192320590999322624)Rafferty's original phone was exchanged. The phone was sent in to Bell, to be fixed, if possible.
Earlier tweet: this tells me MR told others lies about not giving in his phone. JMO
JayFriend
04-17-2012, 02:41 PM
Or he was trying to replace the shoes he had thown away with blood on it?? Just a thought, not concrete evidence :)
Maybe that's why he was looking for one particular type of shoe because he'd bought the originals in Port Huron and couldn't find exact replacements locally.
matou
04-17-2012, 02:42 PM
@AM980_Court (https://twitter.com/#%21/AM980_Court)
(https://twitter.com/#%21/AM980_Court/status/192321701672005633)There are itemized calls on pages 5-16 of the phone bill.
@AM980_Court (https://twitter.com/#%21/AM980_Court)[/URL]
(https://twitter.com/#%21/AM980_Court/status/192321933654757376)
[URL="https://twitter.com/#%21/AM980_Court/status/192321933654757376"]Last call shown was May 18th on original bill. Next bill has May 19th info.
Sailor Bug
04-17-2012, 02:43 PM
Showing call information from April 8th.
Some calls made from Mount Forest, others from Guelph.
Showing the jury e original receipt of the blackberry purchase in 2007. Was bought at Stoneroad Mall in Guelph.
RaffertyLFP: Court reviewing another Bell bill from Guelph store - obtained by police June 2 -2009
RaffertyLFP: The Guelph bill covered the first Blackberry Rafferty bought in 2007
matou
04-17-2012, 02:44 PM
@AM980_Court (https://twitter.com/#%21/AM980_Court)
(https://twitter.com/#%21/AM980_Court/status/192322132078899204)Showing call information from April 8th.
@AM980_Court (https://twitter.com/#%21/AM980_Court)
(https://twitter.com/#%21/AM980_Court/status/192322296164265984)Some calls made from Mount Forest, others from Guelph.
ynotdivein
04-17-2012, 02:44 PM
(Sorry, peeps, had to snip the phone number out of respect for whoever might have that number now.)
~n/t~
04-17-2012, 02:44 PM
Steven D'Souza @cbcsteve
court now seeing Rafferty's phone bill dated Apr. 19/09. Seeing call logs from Apr 8/09, the day Tori Stafford was taken #sl
Steven D'Souza @cbcsteve
Court now seeing Rafferty's cellphone bill, dated May 19, 2009 A log of his cell use to other users #sl
Steven D'Souza @cbcsteve
Bell offered to fix Rafferty's phone and gave him loaner phone. Police tracked Rafferty's phone to RIM where they got warrant to get it #sl
Steven D'Souza @cbcsteve
Brady spoke to Bell employee who says on May 14th #Rafferty came in complaining about blackberry, said he needed a new one #sl
Steven D'Souza @cbcsteve
Det-Cst. James Brady on the stand now. He tracked Rafferty's cell phone and its use #sl
matou
04-17-2012, 02:46 PM
@RaffertyLFP (https://twitter.com/#%21/RaffertyLFP)
(https://twitter.com/#%21/RaffertyLFP/status/192322726734725121)Court reviewing another Bell bill from Guelph store - obtained by police June 2 -2009
@RaffertyLFP (https://twitter.com/#%21/RaffertyLFP)
(https://twitter.com/#%21/RaffertyLFP/status/192322884394434560)The Guelph bill covered the first Blackberry Rafferty bought in 2007
@AM980_Court (https://twitter.com/#%21/AM980_Court)
(https://twitter.com/#%21/AM980_Court/status/192322742090080256)Showing the jury e original receipt of the blackberry purchase in 2007. Was bought at Stoneroad Mall in Guelph.
captaincanada
04-17-2012, 02:48 PM
Showing call information from April 8th.
Some calls made from Mount Forest, others from Guelph.
I wonder what time the calls were made and WHO he called from Mount Forest?
~n/t~
04-17-2012, 02:48 PM
Steven D'Souza @cbcsteve
Court sees bill from Bell showing #Rafferty's original purchase of a Blackberry on June 11/07 #sl
matou
04-17-2012, 02:49 PM
@AM980_Court (https://twitter.com/#%21/AM980_Court)
(https://twitter.com/#%21/AM980_Court/status/192323788493426690)Showing Brady a letter sent from Bell. Letter says a replacement order was created for Rafferty's blackberry on May 14th.
Sailor Bug
04-17-2012, 02:49 PM
Showing Brady a letter sent from Bell. Letter says a replacement order was created for Rafferty's blackberry on May 14th.
Document says Rafferty got his new blackberry at Masonville Mall on May 20th. It's a typo, Brady says. It was May 19th.
RaffertyLFP: Court is seeing document from Bell saying Rafferty was in May 14 asking for replacement Blackberry. He got his replacement on May 19
matou
04-17-2012, 02:51 PM
@AM980_Court (https://twitter.com/#%21/AM980_Court)
(https://twitter.com/#%21/AM980_Court/status/192324099354279937)Document says Rafferty got his new blackberry at Masonville Mall on May 20th. It's a typo, Brady says. It was May 19th.
Hello_Kitty
04-17-2012, 02:51 PM
We're starting to see his attempt at covering his tracks now.
1) Not using his car
2) Puma Shoes
3) New Cellphone
He was starting to get paranoid. Perhaps something TLM told him? IMO
That, and also him telling JW he felt he was being blamed for her disappearance. If he had nothing to hide, he wouldn't have said that IMO
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