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View Full Version : Australia - Allison Baden-Clay, 43, Brisbane QLD, 19 April 2012



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revampz
04-30-2012, 07:15 PM
hi guys ninemsn has just reported that there are no visible signs of foul play.........

dont know if you have already discussed that or what it might mean.

what about suffocation, does that show signs???

http://news.ninemsn.com.au/world/8459849/no-signs-of-foul-play-on-dead-womans-body

angel1
04-30-2012, 07:15 PM
Sorry for being a pain... I was just wondering what they mean by no signs of foul play. I just searched google and it says foul play means some sort of criminal activity-not an accident, or, in the case of a death, not suicide. If the victim has been murdered, it is "foul play. I can't seem to find anything on google about what no foul play means.

Raskolnikov
04-30-2012, 07:19 PM
They say visible, does that mean just looking at the body in its present state without having autopsy information?

Mrs G Norris
04-30-2012, 07:20 PM
hi guys ninemsn has just reported that there are no visible signs of foul play.........

dont know if you have already discussed that or what it might mean.

what about suffocation, does that show signs???

http://news.ninemsn.com.au/world/8459849/no-signs-of-foul-play-on-dead-womans-body

Depending on the amount of decomp a strangulation may still be possible. But usually there are tell-tale signs if that was the case. Suffocation seems unusual doesn't it? However I had a suffocation vibe here for no particular reason.

Liadan
04-30-2012, 07:23 PM
I am amazed that people are able to tell occupations based simply on a post, (mimi2456) but lets just take the post on face value as often being the 'devil's advocate' is actually a very salient way to piece together a scenario.

A) I'm covered in scratches and bites and a hurt foot from boating on the weekend.
B) we have some neighbors that like to have loud domestic fights and a lot of dogs that bark.
C) if he went missing I would be so beside myself I would have to be heavily sedated which might impair my ability to drive let alone my effectiveness as a searcher (even though people might think I'm stoic)
D) as partners are generally the first suspect and considering many friends and family have personal insight that might throw some questionable light upon me which is no different to many relationships (this is hypothetical) I *hired a lawyer to advise me as to the most appropriate actions .


From this post the list provide and the tiny amount of information that has been presented to the public about this case.

The scratch is suspect - I don't think in any domestic situation happy or otherwise would the police discount such observations especially in what has become a homicide.

The screams are for me a maybe - I think this crime was committed at home way before 10pm and then the body moved. So the screams next door or 2 to 4km at 10pm are quite pointless. There was no walk for Allison that night. The barking dogs - were these even in the correct time frame - maybe it was when he returned home.


I personally don't think much of the car accident as I think most people here have expressed the same - odd behaviour but doesn't point to anything sinister. And is not really related to a homicide investigation. If he was sedated then he shouldn't have been driving. Perhaps he was on a mobile phone or reaching for a water bottle and ran off the road. His discussion of the accident is more relieving - 'little bit hurt' give me a break!

The information from the police in the conferences - is very telling. Yes they are keeping the facts very close-but reading between the lines it is not hard to see that they think the facts are telling a completely different story to what they have initially been told on Friday Morning when Allison was reported missing.

The BC have closed ranks around themselves which would be normal. But the Dickies have had no major contact with the BCs and I am assuming from my observations of this estrangement that the BC's would be thinking of the Dickies almost as the enemy. I will be keen to see if a larger separations between the two parties occurs from here on in.

Liadan
04-30-2012, 07:28 PM
hi guys ninemsn has just reported that there are no visible signs of foul play.........

dont know if you have already discussed that or what it might mean.

what about suffocation, does that show signs???

http://news.ninemsn.com.au/world/845...ad-womans-body (http://news.ninemsn.com.au/world/845...ad-womans-body)


just thinking they probably wont release that information to the press yet - they have been very close lipped about all the info to date so it is more likely that they don't want any leaks at this stage rather than us getting a true story.

Raskolnikov
04-30-2012, 07:28 PM
I thought it might be strangulation. It seems a lash out kind of thing to do in the heat of a argument. Suffication would mean having an implement to suffocate which would imply a bit of premeditation. Obviously suffocation can be done while someone is sleeping and the person might not struggle so much and leave less injuries.

Keyboredom
04-30-2012, 07:35 PM
I'd be amazed if it is found this was premeditated. The way events unfolded was so messy with so much confusion, you'd have to be a complete idiot to execute things the way it's happened. Much more likely whoever has done Allison harm has done it accidentally and unexpectedly, hence disposal of the poor lady's body so close to her home.

There would be a million better ways to plan a mysterious death or disappearance, you'd think.

angel1
04-30-2012, 07:35 PM
Have the police been deleting posts and banning people from their facebook page from day 1 in this case or have they just started? If they have just started, perhaps they are preparing to charge somebody and any comments they display on their facebook page may soon be sub judice and could be seen to influence the trial.

It's so weird that (a) someone in this forum nailed the spot (you spooky thing, Alicat, if I ever go missing I want you on the case) and (b) a Scout camp might be involved for crying out loud. If it's implicated as a crime scene either Mr Baden-Clay is being deliberately fitted up or he is giving his esteemed heritage one hell of a slap in the face. Maybe he could never quite live up to their idea of what a Baden-Powell/Clay man should be.


The police have been deleting comments and banning people from the time they put the first message up

crissyz
04-30-2012, 07:38 PM
Possible that she was drowned?

angel1
04-30-2012, 07:46 PM
Possible that she was drowned?

That could probably be right. But i did see on some of the police reports that numerous persons of interest have been interviewed. Would it take more than one person to drown someone???

Keyboredom
04-30-2012, 07:49 PM
It's a shame the way Allison has been found means that when her poor parents identify her, she will look nothing like the way they would want to remember her. I feel so sick for her kids. What sort of a world would you possibly think you live in when you're 5-10 and have to be told someone has taken your mum forever.

marlywings
04-30-2012, 07:51 PM
I'll go back to the thought I had yesterday, could she have been pushed off a bridge & subsequently drowned?? Something about earlier in the search when thoughts were she may have been still alive....

crissyz
04-30-2012, 07:55 PM
I thought perhaps thrown off the bridge too, however with all the rain, its quite possible that she has 'floated' down the river... so maybe was thrown off another bridge.... which is something they will have difficulty proving. Perhaps as she has fallen the long distance and died on impact. But then there would have to be signs on the body from the impact. Drowning won't show signs, unless marks on her body from the force in holding her down.... and because she was submerged in water for many days, that will lose the trace of being able to use water in the lungs etc, as a point.

indogwetrust
04-30-2012, 07:56 PM
I'll go back to the thought I had yesterday, could she have been pushed off a bridge & subsequently drowned?? Something about earlier in the search when thoughts were she may have been still alive....

I thought about this too marlywings but I get the feeling whatever happened to her happened prior to being either thrown off that bridge or put into the water. But this isn't based in anything than just a feeling. I think what you're positing is possible.

marlywings
04-30-2012, 07:57 PM
It's a shame the way Allison has been found means that when her poor parents identify her, she will look nothing like the way they would want to remember her. I feel so sick for her kids. What sort of a world would you possibly think you live in when you're 5-10 and have to be told someone has taken your mum forever.

Yes it's just heartbreaking for those poor kids. A horrible thought I know but it will be even worse for them if their father is found to be the one who killed her. They will have lost both their parents.

indogwetrust
04-30-2012, 08:01 PM
It's a shame the way Allison has been found means that when her poor parents identify her, she will look nothing like the way they would want to remember her. I feel so sick for her kids. What sort of a world would you possibly think you live in when you're 5-10 and have to be told someone has taken your mum forever.

Their whole world and that of Allison's parents and family has been shattered.

I dropped into B'field store yesterday and later it dawned on me, all of this Allison knew, the store, showgrounds, produce, the general hum and vibe of Brookfield - as we all know it. And it has all been snatched away from her, stolen. Everything she loved, most especially her three babes, was taken from her in the blink of an eye.

Raskolnikov
04-30-2012, 08:07 PM
I thought about this too marlywings but I get the feeling whatever happened to her happened prior to being either thrown off that bridge or put into the water. But this isn't based in anything than just a feeling. I think what you're positing is possible.

Pushing someone of the bridge wouldn't mean they would definitely drown unless they were sedated in some way. I just thought if someone did that then there would always be a chance that they survived and could identify the perpetrator.

alicat
04-30-2012, 08:14 PM
C) if he went missing I would be so beside myself I would have to be heavily sedated which might impair my ability to drive


Well, you shouldn't be driving in the first place, should you? He had people around him who could have driven but I bet he demanded he drive himself.

I hope he gets done for reckless driving too. It's a bus terminal - someone could have been hit.

Sprinter
04-30-2012, 08:16 PM
If the time frame was from 8pm, then would the children not have been still awake, or at least the 10 year old daughter. There has not been any mention really of the children at the house that night. Perhaps they were not there, or maybe one of the girls said something to the first attending police and that is what gave them cause to start a search.

alicat
04-30-2012, 08:16 PM
I thought perhaps thrown off the bridge too, however with all the rain, its quite possible that she has 'floated' down the river... so maybe was thrown off another bridge.... which is something they will have difficulty proving. Perhaps as she has fallen the long distance and died on impact. But then there would have to be signs on the body from the impact. Drowning won't show signs, unless marks on her body from the force in holding her down.... and because she was submerged in water for many days, that will lose the trace of being able to use water in the lungs etc, as a point.

Drowning won't show signs, but there would be signs of the fall. It's quite a long way up and her body would have been bruised.

I think he put her upstream and when the rain hit us it has brought her body down to the bridge.

marlywings
04-30-2012, 08:17 PM
Police are hopeful of finding her mobile phone after narrowing the location of the key missing item to an area spanning 150m.

http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/queensland/hope-turns-to-heartbreak-for-allison-baden-clays-family-after-body-found-at-kholo-creek/story-e6freoof-1226343136675

I hope they find that phone although what if it's down one of those septic tanks?? Can information still be extracted from it??

mountainhigh
04-30-2012, 08:17 PM
just so traggic in every sense. The Police will build a case, they always do, whether its in a week or a month or a year, they will get their man..or woman.

I would just love to know once and for all when was the last time he was claiming to see her!! was it going to bed at 10pm while she was watching the footy show? was it at 10pm as she headed for a nightly walk? was it in the morning before she went for a walk? I have heard all 3 and none confirmed to be 100% consistent or accurate. Just when was it! Can somebody please enlighten me of this, in case I am missing something here..

We were also told that he had sent numberous text messages and made phone calls that night to obtain info about her whereabouts!

So I can only assume if that report is 100% correct then the last he saw her was heading off for a walk

crissyz
04-30-2012, 08:22 PM
Drowning won't show signs, but there would be signs of the fall. It's quite a long way up and her body would have been bruised.

I think he put her upstream and when the rain hit us it has brought her body down to the bridge.

Definitely, especially from such a height, even if she had of hit directly on the water, that would have to have caused bruising/marking on the body.

I hate the thought of thinking what state the body would be in, how badly decomposed would it be now after 11 days, whether she would be recognisable, and how awful for her parents who will probably have to be the ones to identify her :(

marlywings
04-30-2012, 08:25 PM
just so traggic in every sense. The Police will build a case, they always do, whether its in a week or a month or a year, they will get their man..or woman.

I would just love to know once and for all when was the last time he was claiming to see her!! was it going to bed at 10pm while she was watching the footy show? was it at 10pm as she headed for a nightly walk? was it in the morning before she went for a walk? I have heard all 3 and none confirmed to be 100% consistent or accurate. Just when was it! Can somebody please enlighten me of this, in case I am missing something here..

We were also told that he had sent numberous text messages and made phone calls that night to obtain info about her whereabouts!

So I can only assume if that report is 100% correct then the last he saw her was heading off for a walk

April 30, 2012

It was previously reported Mr Baden-Clay last saw his wife leave their rural Brookfield home, in Brisbane's west, to go for a walk late on April 19.

But police confirmed today Mr Baden-Clay has maintained he last saw his wife watching television at their home about 10pm that Thursday night.

He has told police he woke the next morning to find her missing and raised the alarm about 7.30am.


http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/queensland/search-for-missing-mum-enters-11th-day-20120430-1xtka.html

alicat
04-30-2012, 08:26 PM
hi guys ninemsn has just reported that there are no visible signs of foul play.........

dont know if you have already discussed that or what it might mean.

what about suffocation, does that show signs???

http://news.ninemsn.com.au/world/845...ad-womans-body (http://news.ninemsn.com.au/world/845...ad-womans-body)


just thinking they probably wont release that information to the press yet - they have been very close lipped about all the info to date so it is more likely that they don't want any leaks at this stage rather than us getting a true story.

You could use something like chloroform to knock her out and then drown her. Sounds horrible I know :(

I think the car accident was to cover up the car. I think the car was involved in an accident regarding the murder and he's trying to get rid of the damage.

indogwetrust
04-30-2012, 08:26 PM
Well, you shouldn't be driving in the first place, should you? He had people around him who could have driven but I bet he demanded he drive himself.

I hope he gets done for reckless driving too. It's a bus terminal - someone could have been hit.

If my partner went missing I wouldn't be heavily sedated - I would be out there searching for him relentlessly!!

The only time I would require sedation is if they found him, as Allison had been found, days later, knowing someone had done this to him, I'd be out of control. I imagine they'd be having to restrain me with sedation.

indogwetrust
04-30-2012, 08:30 PM
You could use something like chloroform to knock her out and then drown her. Sounds horrible I know :(

I think the car accident was to cover up the car. I think the car was involved in an accident regarding the murder and he's trying to get rid of the damage.

I don't know alicat - don't you get the feeling that this wasn't pre-meditated. That it was all done so clumsily and hurriedly?

I don't think he was trying to get rid of damage. It was his 'friend's' car and the police would have already checked it out(?). I think that little 'accident on purpose' was to avoid meeting with the police, to get admitted into hospital. It sounds all drama to me.

alicat
04-30-2012, 08:38 PM
I just don't know... I agree, I think he had limited time. The papers are saying it's a 20 minute drive. At that time of night.... mmm you could do it in 10-12 minutes I reckon.

What about the sister? I get this weird Riff Raff/Magenta (RHPC) kind of feeling between them both. My husband pointed out someone mentioned the sister did it. I don't know about this, but perhaps she had involvement?

Maybe she looked after the kids when G went to dispose of the body? Because if his kids did wake up they wouldn't think it was strange that Aunty was there. Thoughts?

mountainhigh
04-30-2012, 08:39 PM
April 30, 2012

It was previously reported Mr Baden-Clay last saw his wife leave their rural Brookfield home, in Brisbane's west, to go for a walk late on April 19.

But police confirmed today Mr Baden-Clay has maintained he last saw his wife watching television at their home about 10pm that Thursday night.

He has told police he woke the next morning to find her missing and raised the alarm about 7.30am.


http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/queensland/search-for-missing-mum-enters-11th-day-20120430-1xtka.html

OK thanks Marlywings, then if this is the case then the recent reports on Sunday I think it was (and there were many) the story of him running around on thursday night texting people and ringin people to see if they had seen her are rubbish! ????

marlywings
04-30-2012, 08:43 PM
THE place where a body - believed to be Allison Baden-Clay's - was found yesterday is in the vicinity of two popular Scouting camp sites.
Allawah Campground and Tyamolum Scout Camp are both just kilometres from Kholo Creek crossing and are frequented by the Scouting community, of which husband Gerard Baden-Clay is a member.
Mr Lightbody said there was a significant distance between where the body was found and the camp sites.
However, it is thought that torrential rain over the weekend could have moved the body downstream, along with other debris, meaning the body could have been dumped well away from where it was discovered yesterday
Ms Read said the area was secluded and much of it could only be accessed by four-wheel drive vehicle
http://www.news.com.au/national/horrific-end-hope-turns-to-heartbreak-as-search-for-killer-begins/story-e6frfkvr-1226343136055

indogwetrust
04-30-2012, 08:46 PM
I just don't know... I agree, I think he had limited time. The papers are saying it's a 20 minute drive. At that time of night.... mmm you could do it in 10-12 minutes I reckon.

What about the sister? I get this weird Riff Raff/Magenta (RHPC) kind of feeling between them both. My husband pointed out someone mentioned the sister did it. I don't know about this, but perhaps she had involvement?

Maybe she looked after the kids when G went to dispose of the body? Because if his kids did wake up they wouldn't think it was strange that Aunty was there. Thoughts?

I don't think the sister has anything to do with it whatsoever. When I watched that interview with him and she was standing next to him, if anything I thought I saw suspicion in her eyes.

And then, a couple of days later, she fronts the media and says 'well, we still haven't found Allison ...' like duh, we know! That's the issue, tell us something we don't know. She didn't strike me as overly bright, just a hapless victim in the circus. Different to her parents who seem to be more ... can't find the word ... different, strategic ...

But wow - what do you mean by Riff Raff/ magenta (RHPC)??? Has that something to do with siblings that are particularly, as in intimately close? Sorry that one went right over my head.

Raskolnikov
04-30-2012, 08:56 PM
I don't think the sister has anything to do with it whatsoever. When I watched that interview with him and she was standing next to him, if anything I thought I saw suspicion in her eyes.

And then, a couple of days later, she fronts the media and says 'well, we still haven't found Allison ...' like duh, we know! That's the issue, tell us something we don't know. She didn't strike me as overly bright, just a hapless victim in the circus. Different to her parents who seem to be more ... can't find the word ... different, strategic ...

But wow - what do you mean by Riff Raff/ magenta (RHPC)??? Has that something to do with siblings that are particularly, as in intimately close? Sorry that one went right over my head.

I think the sister was just replying to the incessant questions from reporters to the same old questions. Looking at the interview where she was standing next to her brother I thought that her response to the situation was more normal. She stayed there, I'm pretty sure, when the brother went off back into the house looking like he didn't want to answer any awkward questions.

Mrs G Norris
04-30-2012, 08:58 PM
I am positive that he acted completely on his own, has told nobody, and his friends and family are just as suspicious as we are, but are caught in this awkward position where they can't really say that - perhaps even to each other .. some family stay in denial forever sadly .. Look at Cindy Anthony.

marlywings
04-30-2012, 09:00 PM
OK thanks Marlywings, then if this is the case then the recent reports on Sunday I think it was (and there were many) the story of him running around on thursday night texting people and ringin people to see if they had seen her are rubbish! ????

He could have been texting/calling people...in an effort to cover his own backside.

alicat
04-30-2012, 09:03 PM
But wow - what do you mean by Riff Raff/ magenta (RHPC)??? Has that something to do with siblings that are particularly, as in intimately close? Sorry that one went right over my head.

Yeah it does (Rocky Horror Picture Show). I don't know, they just seem strange... the whole family does. And they don't seem bright.

alicat
04-30-2012, 09:04 PM
He could have been texting/calling people...in an effort to cover his own backside.

If he was so worried, why did he go to bed without her?

**Ok, I'll stop whoring the thread now**

kenmorian
04-30-2012, 09:05 PM
I keep reading that GBC was not seen leaving the Century 21 offices yesterday after he entered around 11. The police were seen leaving however, is he in custody?

truthseeker12
04-30-2012, 09:16 PM
Perhaps he wasn't seen leaving Century 21, because all the Journo's raced to Brookfield and Anstead, failing to catch him leaving!

Liadan
04-30-2012, 09:17 PM
If he was so worried, why did he go to bed without her?

**Ok, I'll stop whoring the thread now**


So True Alicat- but he apparently went to sleep with a big secret he wasn't ready to tell the world! I wonder what the so called people he rang frantically on Thurs night told him? To go out looking or to call the police or wait and let her come home?

kenmorian
04-30-2012, 09:18 PM
Just seems like a strange thing to mention, why bother

Mrs G Norris
04-30-2012, 09:35 PM
They're saying on twitter there has been a sim card found on Mt Crosby Road .. strange.

Liadan
04-30-2012, 09:36 PM
on twitter police have found a simcard.....

marlywings
04-30-2012, 09:39 PM
I keep reading that GBC was not seen leaving the Century 21 offices yesterday after he entered around 11. The police were seen leaving however, is he in custody?


Detectives delivered the news to Mr Baden-Clay at his Century 21 real estate office in Taringa, where he spent much of the day with his father

http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/queensland/a-family-waits-for-answers-20120430-1xut4.html#ixzz1tZtGiaze

crissyz
04-30-2012, 09:40 PM
If he had of done it... then surely thur night he would not have gotten any sleep, surely the adrenaline would be pumping in his body, along with the feelings of panic if he was to get caught etc, to make sure he had covered all his tracks etc.
I wonder how he looked on Friday morning...

indogwetrust
04-30-2012, 09:42 PM
They're saying on twitter there has been a sim card found on Mt Crosby Road .. strange.

A sneaky person would discard the sim knowing it held a lot of info, so it makes sense.

Whoever did this would have been savvy enough to do that.

alicat
04-30-2012, 09:42 PM
Ohhhh the sim may have FINGERPRINTS! (Although being married he might have his all over them... but no-one elses.... ) Ohhh... what secrets will it tell us?

mountainhigh
04-30-2012, 09:42 PM
He could have been texting/calling people...in an effort to cover his own backside.

I get what you are saying here but can't you see the contradiction...
HE WOKE NEXT MORNING AND RAISED THE ALARM THAT SHE WAS MISSING....

If it wasn't until he woke next moring to raise the alarm then why an earth was he running around texting people and phoning people on Thursday night when allegedly he went to bed while she was watching TV.

That makes absolute no sense at all. therefore the media reports of thursday night texting and phone calling are probably rubbish

you cant go to bed and run around around texting people at the same time!

crissyz
04-30-2012, 09:43 PM
Just saw a pic on twitter searching for tyre marks (probably washed away now sadly :( ) - good chance he used his friends car and then crashed it to disguise any possible evidence, as we have discussed already throughout the thread :(

indogwetrust
04-30-2012, 09:44 PM
If he had of done it... then surely thur night he would not have gotten any sleep, surely the adrenaline would be pumping in his body, along with the feelings of panic if he was to get caught etc, to make sure he had covered all his tracks etc.
I wonder how he looked on Friday morning...

Apparently how he looked and acted Fri morning was enough to send the police force and SES into action, they swooped down on B'field like eagles, so quickly.

It was in a news report too - some comment justifying the quick reaction, based on 'information' they'd been given, but it was a bit more than that.

Mrs G will remember it and probably has the link.

Mrs G Norris
04-30-2012, 09:45 PM
A sneaky person would discard the sim knowing it held a lot of info, so it makes sense.

Whoever did this would have been savvy enough to do that.

Not savvy enough to discard it waaaay away from the body though .. I mean a tiny sim card, that could have been flicked off anywhere. I'm thinking it's either unrelated or was accidentally dropped here - or of course, he is actually incredibly stupid.

alicat
04-30-2012, 09:46 PM
In a supermarket bin etc... anywhere. Mt Crosby Road inbound has now been closed.

nursebeeme
04-30-2012, 09:49 PM
Hi friends from Australia!:seeya:

Here was what I was thinking (re: no visible signs of foul play)...: this can be a soft kill like strangulation that has to be confirmed via autopsy. I think LE possibly meant there were no obvious signs of COD for example: gun shot or blunt force trauma, etc...

Very good news they may have found the SIM card.. I am glad that the perp didn't know enough about cell phones to know that the phone was still pinging when he pulled it out:jail:

Further thought: what was saved to the SIM card that the perp did not want to be found if and when LE found the phone? If the perp is the husband and there was an altercation at the house why even bother taking the phone with?

Also: have the children been forensically interviewed to see if they witnessed anything that night and/or their take on the events of the evening?

angel1
04-30-2012, 09:53 PM
They are still saying on the news here that there were numerous persons of interest interviewed. My friend who used to be a detective just told me to take notice of what the police themselves have said. He said alot of media stories get twisted and aren't always the truth. I know that for a fact anyway because last year my youngest brothers fiancee was killed. The media kept saying the accident was at windsor nsw and the driver was a teenager. The accident actually happened at a place called schofields and the driver was 33 not a teenager. They also said it was caused by alcohol and drugs but all that was cleared by the investigation. So that's one example of the media getting things wrong. I'm also wondering if the body found is Allison whether there is going to be a way we can donate money/items for the children.

Raskolnikov
04-30-2012, 09:54 PM
I think the police said she had a iPhone and to remove a sim from one of those is quite difficult without the right implement. Also I thought the police had picked up on the signal of Allison's phone which I presume means the sim would be with the phone. Could this be Gerald's sim?

Herding Cats
04-30-2012, 09:58 PM
I have been following this, and send my most sincere condolences to all who have been impacted by Alison's death...

(Fair warning: this may be graphic)

Someone asked upthread about "signs of foul play" and there not being any obvious indication of foul play.

What can happen to a body once it's been submerged or exposed to the elements is that you have nature going at it...meaning, scavengers may take bites, or fish and/or rocks and/or branches underwater may have snagged the body, and left marks which may have obscured original lethal wounds.

Also, when someone is submerged, they tend to swell and possibly rupture (sorry), and body parts become damaged simply from immersion.

When LE says "no signs of foul play", what they're meaning is nothing obvious; all body parts are accounted for, other sources of wounds are present (as in scavengers), or nothing is obviously wrong (e.g. the head is still attached [again, sorry]).

Further, immersion in water, if for a brief time, may obscure an obvious bleeding spot - there may be stab wounds, but they weren't visible because of the immersion, and blood was "washed" off.

A lot of times, trauma (such as cranial strikes) cannot be seen, even without immersion or scavenger activity. One can have a cracked skull, for example, and have a lot of internal bleeding, but nothing shows outwardly (except for loss of consciousness and/or death).

Last comment, is that bruising/hematomas, even when from a fall-from-heights, requires a beating heart to pump blood to the site of the damaged tissue and to leak from the broken blood vessels. It can be difficult to distinguish pre-, ante-, and post- mortem injuries in the best of times, but in a submerged body it's very hard. The cold water will slow the heart rate and pressure, or consciousness (or lack thereof) will change heart rate and pressure, and so can shock. All of those combined may reduce the body's ability to send blood to the site of damage/injury, and thus no bruising/hematoma will form. And if the body has gone through rigor, and blood has settled, it can be close to impossible to tell outside of an autopsy if there were bruises prior to death.

Autopsy will tell a whole lot more about what's happened. Under a microscope, it can be determined if a cut is a stab wound or a branch snag. It's not always distinguishable, but a lot of times it can be. Same between a scavenger bite and a wound.

Once the autopsy is complete, hopefully there will be an answer to all of this. Until then, we only can wait.

Hope this helps in some small way. Prayers for everyone impacted...

Best-
Herding Cats

indogwetrust
04-30-2012, 10:04 PM
Not savvy enough to discard it waaaay away from the body though .. I mean a tiny sim card, that could have been flicked off anywhere. I'm thinking it's either unrelated or was accidentally dropped here - or of course, he is actually incredibly stupid.

Good point, but what if they took it out there, because this is all happening so quickly, then put it in their pocket hastily and it falls out?

But this all falls to pieces if you do need some kind of special tool to take it out?

marlywings
04-30-2012, 10:07 PM
I get what you are saying here but can't you see the contradiction...
HE WOKE NEXT MORNING AND RAISED THE ALARM THAT SHE WAS MISSING....

If it wasn't until he woke next moring to raise the alarm then why an earth was he running around texting people and phoning people on Thursday night when allegedly he went to bed while she was watching TV.

That makes absolute no sense at all. therefore the media reports of thursday night texting and phone calling are probably rubbish

you cant go to bed and run around around texting people at the same time!

I think what I was meaning is that perhaps he tried to make out he woke through the night, found her missing then texted/called people. I'm not sure if it's been mentioned what time he was supposed to have woken up that morning, whatever time it was he didn't report her missing until 7.30am.

Mrs G Norris
04-30-2012, 10:16 PM
Good point, but what if they took it out there, because this is all happening so quickly, then put it in their pocket hastily and it falls out?

But this all falls to pieces if you do need some kind of special tool to take it out?

Yeah there's no way he took the sim card out out there .. you can use a pin with an iphone too but it's a royal pain in the butt .. prob impossible in the dark. I'm wondering if he took it out at home with the intention of dumping it on the trip and it just fell out of his pocket somehow.

Such bad luck for him if it's hers ...

Mrs G Norris
04-30-2012, 10:17 PM
I am smelling a profiler in these little tit-bits that are being leaked.

somebodysdarling
04-30-2012, 10:21 PM
Good point, but what if they took it out there, because this is all happening so quickly, then put it in their pocket hastily and it falls out?

But this all falls to pieces if you do need some kind of special tool to take it out?

I had to help my MIL to get the sim card into her new i-phone a couple of days ago, it took 30 seconds with a needle so it's not a big deal.

crissyz
04-30-2012, 10:24 PM
Ok - another thought I had - they found the sim card.... from an iphone...
Those with an iphone know that you have to use that little metal prong thingy to release the Sim card...... surely any random perpetraitor wouldn't have one lying around...... just a thought....

crissyz
04-30-2012, 10:26 PM
Sorry, just got back from lunch & refreshed but the other posts didn't come up - so my genius thought wasn't so genius lol ;-)

Raskolnikov
04-30-2012, 10:29 PM
I had to help my MIL to get the sim card into her new i-phone a couple of days ago, it took 30 seconds with a needle so it's not a big deal.


It would mean that if it is her SIM it would be hard remove it in the dark and that the person would need something like a needle or paperclip. It's more involved than a normal mobile where you just slide the back off. Not saying that it can't be done, it's just that it would probably have to be done at home where you could find those sort of things, and that takes a bit of planning or organisation

Keyboredom
04-30-2012, 10:31 PM
In a supermarket bin etc... anywhere. Mt Crosby Road inbound has now been closed.

But pretty unlikely a person involved in this disappearance at that time of night would go anywhere near lights or security/red light cameras. My bet would be everything has been discarded in unlit non-residential areas between the place Allison was found and her place of disappearance, unless the person responsible headed further away from Kholo Creek after discarding Allison's body.

Sprinter
04-30-2012, 10:36 PM
The sim card is probably from a stolen phone and they have thrown it out. Could'nt be that lucky to have found Allisons sim.
But then police could be lucky.

Keyboredom
04-30-2012, 10:38 PM
I think the car accident was to cover up the car. I think the car was involved in an accident regarding the murder and he's trying to get rid of the damage.

It's very unlikely that vehicle in the accident had anything to do with Allison's disappearance. There are numerous other reasons why the accident might have occurred, but if it was involved in a crime and someone has gone to the trouble to retrieve and then crash it, would be one of the more ridiculous acts imaginable. Regardless, the police had impounded the family cars, so for the guy to be able to travel he had to be in someone else's car.

indogwetrust
04-30-2012, 10:38 PM
But pretty unlikely a person involved in this disappearance at that time of night would go anywhere near lights or security/red light cameras. My bet would be everything has been discarded in unlit non-residential areas between the place Allison was found and her place of disappearance, unless the person responsible headed further away from Kholo Creek after discarding Allison's body.

Yes, but discarded hastily leaving much room for error.

Someone who has just committed such a heinous act could not be thinking completely rationally, calmly and cooly.

They would have had to discard quickly. A car stopped on the side of the ride would have arosed suspicion. A car going off track too, they probably wouldn't have done that as it also is makes them too conspicuos at night.

You'd be panicked, freaked out that at any moment someone was going to stumble on what you were doing.

alicat
04-30-2012, 10:38 PM
I can't believe someone on here has implicated Gerard Baden-Clay's poor sister.

Yes, this was me. I was just saying what my husband had heard (all is speculation at the moment). Understandable SHE may not be involved, but then again Gerard may not be involved either.

indogwetrust
04-30-2012, 10:45 PM
Yes, this was me. I was just saying what my husband had heard (all is speculation at the moment). Understandable SHE may not be involved, but then again Gerard may not be involved either.

In defence of alicat - and I was involved too - it was only that ... hypothesising.

And as his sister was so visible and (naturally) ready to defend (what some believe is indefensible bc they believe he did it), it's only natural to speculate.

perth1
04-30-2012, 11:53 PM
Hi All, I have been intrigued with this and have enjoyed reading everyone's posts. From the very first moment I thought the Husband had done it. When I saw his first interview with his sister he looked like he was trying to say what he thought people would be expecting him to say, he looked very guilty. His sister on the other hand seemed very supportive and had a very strong positive body language and seemed 100% behind her brother, she seems to me like a very good person and I think she will be devastated if her brother killed Allison. But this all brings me to an interesting theory..

If you are living with your partner and your relationship is over and has been for a long time you may stay together for the kids and other reasons, but you need to live a different life. No reason not to be friends, you just drift away. Living with a person who is depressed can be very difficult in my opinion and can be harder than the person that has depression or a personality disorder. You would always get blamed for her depression even if it is unrelated to you. For instance, you just are unable to satisfy her unreasonable needs so you end up looking like the bad guy. You get all the blame and all you can do is be submissive. This is a no win situation for you, you are strong and you keep moving forward in difficult conditions. I know ďpoor depressed girlĒ but poor guy who may have had years of difficulty, feeling of being unloved or underappreciated for the efforts that he has put in, all he has is a gloomy future. So you have a relationship outside of the marriage, it brings you a bit of sanity, a bit of affection, something that helps you deal with the pressures of life. You don't want to leave your wife, who would want to walk away from their 3 children. Your children would want you to be together at almost any cost. So you grin and bear it and have that alternative life that brings a bit of joy to a sombre home. Your wife stopped making love to you a long time ago and you find it difficult to sleep in the same bed, just longing for some kind words or affection so you move into a different bedroom for some sanity and to stop the constant reminder. Conflict is part of your life and has been for ages, your wife maybe angry with you for sleeping in a different room and you would like to sleep next to her but you canít, itís too taxing too draining. A couple of years go by, your wife finds out about your second life and it just adds to the problems, she is even more difficult to live with, but she doesnít want you to leave and for yourself, itís the best you can hope for in a difficult situation. You feel that she is at least partially responsible for the situation or perhaps is the cause of the situation you are both in. So it keeps popping up its head and you keep having conflict, nothing that you are not used to, it just is and has always been difficult one way or another. You donít love your wife and in reality you could quite happily live without her. Only problem is you know what she is like and if you part ways she will be very vindictive and cause a lot of issues with your children and yourself. So you take the best option of the bad choices you have. And life goes on. Perhaps on that night she was fighting with him, perhaps she was aggressive with him and he just went to bed. Shut his bedroom door and hoped she would stop. She is in a very bad place, she feels her life is falling down by the way side, her husband is cheating on her and many people know about it, she feels ashamed, yet she canít leave him. In desperation she leaves the house, her life is not worth living and in a point of desperation and confusion she commits suicide. Meanwhile Gerard who is used to living in this situation, cares for the situation but is not at all emotionally attached to her is suddenly in a situation where 1. He has been fighting with her, 2. She has disappeared 3. He was cheating on her 4. He has a scratch on his face from her attacking him 5. Being her husband he knows he would be the most obvious person of interest 6. He has been having financial problems. It all looks bad and he has to show some interest in her missing but in a sense is relieved that she has left. So he looks as guilty as sin, canít sleep, knows everyone thinks he killed her. Smashes a car due to being overwhelmed from lack of sleep and pressure, short of money so he still has to work. Making poor choices due to his situation. Feels angry with her for killing herself, being selfish from taking herself away from their children.

Now if he did kill her, he would have to have driven a car with her body in it. He would have struggled carrying her and there would be evidence of this. There would be evidence of a struggle in the house. The kids would have heard something. Someone would have seen his car or her car on the road which would immediately implicate him. There would most likely have been some evidence on her body that she was murdered. None of which we have heard of yet. All we are seeing is his guilty appearance from either murdering her or his situation that makes him feel that everyone things he has murdered her, and to top it off he doesnít really like her. I would think in this situation I would be saying grab the polygraph, on the same account he might be afraid of his feeling of guilt would skew it and his lawyer advised him against the test. If he didnít kill her he would be in a world of panic, same as if he did kill her. I think if he didnít kill her, this will drag on for ages and the police would likely charge him at a much later time. If he has killed her it will be over quite quickly and the police will charge him soon. I donít think itís possible that someone else killed her, no motive and no sexual abuse (she was clothed). Hmm, actually if she did kill herself I think her phone would have gone with her, unless it fell from her pocket as she was in a very unstable mood and was walking quickly/erratically. It could explain a sim on the sidewalk, someone found her phone and removed the sim and kept the phone, this happened days later. Anyway this is a no win situation for the families involved. Everyone suffers. I hope the kids donít lose both their mum and dad, I hope he is innocent for their sake. Oh, I didnít see Gerardís parents french kiss thank god, gees how gross. The things you do in times of pressure. I canít believe it could be anything else.

willough
04-30-2012, 11:55 PM
I get what you are saying here but can't you see the contradiction...
HE WOKE NEXT MORNING AND RAISED THE ALARM THAT SHE WAS MISSING....

If it wasn't until he woke next moring to raise the alarm then why an earth was he running around texting people and phoning people on Thursday night when allegedly he went to bed while she was watching TV.

That makes absolute no sense at all. therefore the media reports of thursday night texting and phone calling are probably rubbish

you cant go to bed and run around around texting people at the same time!

I wonder if during all this, he was also trying to call Allison (during such franticness)......After all if he was innocent, he would not have presumed her dead and would have been trying to to get hold of her to make sure she was ok.

indogwetrust
04-30-2012, 11:58 PM
the way I read it is that he 'apparently' went into panic mode that night, couldn't find her, frantically texted etc. But, given his efforts were fruitless, probably exhausted by all that texting (it can be arduous you know), he gave up and went to bed, then, next morning he called.

bikerchick
04-30-2012, 11:59 PM
Many of my friends knew her very well and told me that she was one of the most level headed and consistent people she'd met and that hadn't changed in all the years (10) that she'd known her.. thus whilst perhaps understandably depressed, was certainly not suicidal.

Mrs G Norris
05-01-2012, 12:03 AM
I wonder if during all this, he was also trying to call Allison (during such franticness)......After all if he was innocent, he would not have presumed her dead and would have been trying to to get hold of her to make sure she was ok.

Oooh yeah, he'd have wanted to that's for sure .. although it wont really make any difference, I'm sure he made PLENTY of mistakes.

perth1
05-01-2012, 12:05 AM
Many of my friends knew her very well and told me that she was one of the most level headed and consistent people she'd met and that hadn't changed in all the years (10) that she'd known her.. thus whilst perhaps understandably depressed, was certainly not suicidal.

I don't think it maybe that apparent. See the following link.

http://www.who.int/mental_health/management/depression/definition/en/

What is depression?
Depression is a common mental disorder that presents with depressed mood, loss of interest or pleasure, feelings of guilt or low self-worth, disturbed sleep or appetite, low energy, and poor concentration. These problems can become chronic or recurrent and lead to substantial impairments in an individual's ability to take care of his or her everyday responsibilities. At its worst, depression can lead to suicide, a tragic fatality associated with the loss of about 850 000 lives every year.

alicat
05-01-2012, 12:09 AM
I don't think it maybe that apparent. See the following link.

http://www.who.int/mental_health/management/depression/definition/en/

What is depression?
Depression is a common mental disorder that presents with depressed mood, loss of interest or pleasure, feelings of guilt or low self-worth, disturbed sleep or appetite, low energy, and poor concentration. These problems can become chronic or recurrent and lead to substantial impairments in an individual's ability to take care of his or her everyday responsibilities. At its worst, depression can lead to suicide, a tragic fatality associated with the loss of about 850 000 lives every year.

Well if it's suicide someone had to get her there. It's a long walk and a main road. Someone would have seen a person walking along that road at night.

indogwetrust
05-01-2012, 12:09 AM
Oooh yeah, he'd have wanted to that's for sure .. although it wont really make any difference, I'm sure he made PLENTY of mistakes.

emphasis on the speculating here ... speculating that he did do it, wouldn't he, afterwards have started to make calls to the mobile which by now was nowhere in earshot of anyone, to make it look like he had legitimately tried to find her?

bikerchick
05-01-2012, 12:10 AM
I don't think it maybe that apparent. See the following link.

http://www.who.int/mental_health/management/depression/definition/en/

What is depression?
Depression is a common mental disorder that presents with depressed mood, loss of interest or pleasure, feelings of guilt or low self-worth, disturbed sleep or appetite, low energy, and poor concentration. These problems can become chronic or recurrent and lead to substantial impairments in an individual's ability to take care of his or her everyday responsibilities. At its worst, depression can lead to suicide, a tragic fatality associated with the loss of about 850 000 lives every year.

Sorry Perth1,
I have very good reasons to strongly suggest with nearly every fibre of my being that this is not the case in this situation.

BobSuruncle
05-01-2012, 12:13 AM
Adding to the hypothesis, we have assumed her mobile was intact when the SIM was removed (if it was hers at all). In a panic, not being able to open it quickly, the phone may simply have been smashed to get the SIM out.

indogwetrust
05-01-2012, 12:13 AM
Re: depression.

Heaps of people are walking around and living with depression and they are stable.

I understand it may introduce an element of uncertainty but not where someone has no history of behaving erratically or irresponsibly or plenty of other indicators.

Mrs G Norris
05-01-2012, 12:13 AM
emphasis on the speculating here ... speculating that he did do it, wouldn't he, afterwards have started to make calls to the mobile which by now was nowhere in earshot of anyone, to make it look like he had legitimately tried to find her?

He'd have wanted to yes, likely the first question police asked.

willough
05-01-2012, 12:17 AM
Her depression was probably more a lack of self esteem because the man she loved put other women before her. He did have a 2 year affair. That surely gives a woman reason to be depressed.....................and yes, that is of HIS doing. People dont just find out their husband is having an affair and move forward happily as though nothing happened.

Not because of some massive disorder.

alicat
05-01-2012, 12:19 AM
I just read this on twitter - @renaehenry10 Baden-Clay investigation: it's understood Allison's husband Gerard is meeting with his lawyer in the city @tennewsqld

indogwetrust
05-01-2012, 12:20 AM
What about that recent case where the brother was accused of killing his brother and his parents (can't remember the name or the details, an Aus case).

He had admitted to killing his brother but not the parents - yet all the victims had stab wounds?

The accused had apparently planted seeds of doubt about his brother's mental stability for weeks before the murder, to make it look like his brother had killed his parents, not him. That was clear to the first trial judge.

It's too easy to plant seeds of doubt just based on depression alone. We don't know to what extent Allison suffered it but we can see that she lived a stable life, she mothered and cared for her children.

And I can't help but take a look at her parents and how they have conducted themselves in stark contrast to his parents.

Keyboredom
05-01-2012, 12:23 AM
Meanwhile Gerard who is used to living in this situation, cares for the situation but is not at all emotionally attached to her is suddenly in a situation where 1. He has been fighting with her, 2. She has disappeared 3. He was cheating on her 4. He has a scratch on his face from her attacking him 5. Being her husband he knows he would be the most obvious person of interest 6. He has been having financial problems. It all looks bad and he has to show some interest in her missing but in a sense is relieved that she has left. So he looks as guilty as sin, canít sleep, knows everyone thinks he killed her. Smashes a car due to being overwhelmed from lack of sleep and pressure, short of money so he still has to work. Making poor choices due to his situation.

I agree with that part of your post in particular that a detached partner would show minimal care or emotion. Just his behaviour in that interview doesn't make the husband guilty. I totally disagree there is even the remotest possibility of suicide. I think Allison was probably dealing with same level of depression many wives would experience with what she'd been dealing with. She was a loved mother of 3 girls, the local dance teacher, and a lot of people who loved her outside her marriage, even if that was in trouble as suggested.

ozazure
05-01-2012, 12:31 AM
indogwetrust, I believe you're talking about Jeff Gilham. I took quite a different story away from that case, Jeff made no attempt to cover up a crime, there was physical evidence support his story and it was when extended family had trouble over inheritance that his truthfulness was brought into question. He has recently been released to prison after an appeal although I believe there may be more legal proceedings down the road.

I haven't been following the media very closely, who bought up Allison's depression? I agree that most "normally" depressed people would not be considered suicidal so that going off for a walk and not returning, a family member fears they are at risk from themselves. It smacks of alibi building and disparaging the victim.

alicat
05-01-2012, 12:35 AM
I haven't been following the media very closely, who bought up Allison's depression?

It states 'friends's brought it up.

http://www.perthnow.com.au/daughters-pray-for-missing-mum-allison-baden-clay/story-fn6cmyjj-1226341362442

indogwetrust
05-01-2012, 12:35 AM
Have to admit, I'm feeling a bit defensive about these suicide intimations. No offence Perth1, I know you're just putting it out there.

But you also have to follow such a hypothesis to its logical conclusion - Allison was upset, left then what ... trudged all the way over to Kholo creek and chose that bridge to throw herself off?

If you were intent on ending your life you'd do it much more expeditiously. It makes no sense what you are suggesting on a number of levels.

You'd also expect to clear your head on such a journey and would be rather exhausted by the time you got there.

indogwetrust
05-01-2012, 12:38 AM
indogwetrust, I believe you're talking about Jeff Gilham. I took quite a different story away from that case, Jeff made no attempt to cover up a crime, there was physical evidence support his story and it was when extended family had trouble over inheritance that his truthfulness was brought into question. He has recently been released to prison after an appeal although I believe there may be more legal proceedings down the road.

I haven't been following the media very closely, who bought up Allison's depression? I agree that most "normally" depressed people would not be considered suicidal so that going off for a walk and not returning, a family member fears they are at risk from themselves. It smacks of alibi building and disparaging the victim.

This is why I raised that case as an example - not on the circumstances re: admission of guilt but the way he sowed seeds of doubt about his brother's mental capacity weeks beforehand.

I don't know if Gerard has done his but he must have reported Allison's depression and offered it as a possibility in the beginning to add substance to his claim that it was she who left the house.

alicat
05-01-2012, 12:42 AM
Another article does say Allison's 'sister-in-law said the normally well-balanced woman had suffered from depression'

He has not spoken to the media much so she was the main speaker of the house.

crissyz
05-01-2012, 12:42 AM
I actually expected the husband and his family to push more along the lines of her depression and unstable-ness.....

Regardless, I don't think no matter how depressed, she would commit suicide and leave those beautiful children with a man she doens't love or probably respect. her girls are probably one of the things that keep her going if she was that depressed.

marlywings
05-01-2012, 12:43 AM
Have to admit, I'm feeling a bit defensive about these suicide intimations. No offence Perth1, I know you're just putting it out there.

But you also have to follow such a hypothesis to its logical conclusion - Allison was upset, left then what ... trudged all the way over to Kholo creek and chose that bridge to throw herself off?

If you were intent on ending your life you'd do it much more expeditiously. It makes no sense what you are suggesting on a number of levels.

You'd also expect to clear your head on such a journey and would be rather exhausted by the time you got there.

Or she would have driven off into the night with the car found somewhere the next day?? I don't go at all with the "poor poor guy was living a life of hell with a depressed wife".

willough
05-01-2012, 12:46 AM
Could she have hitchhiked to Kholo Creek?....I know she couldnt walk it.

I agree indogwetrust about feeling almost offended at the thought that Allison may have taken her own life. I just cant think anyone with an ounce of logic would want to leave their children......But, yep perth1 is just putting it out there. Just like Alicat was putting her thoughts about the sister out there.

Oh heck, the other day I went overboard (in my head) thinking this was something more...............ie political.....With all the Libs visiting, Campbell Newman throwing himself into the blend, stating he would help the police commissioner to leave no stone unturned. I know now it was just them being supportive, but I was wondering a) How close knit is GBC with the Libs? b) With the Libs just being elected, did she perhaps know something that could compromise something? and they needed her dead........................we all run rampant with our theories....and I know I am a major conspiracy theorist. It was just the Libs being supportive.

Cccclllaareb
05-01-2012, 12:47 AM
"Living with a person who is depressed can be very difficult in my opinion and can be harder than the person that has depression or a personality disorder. You would always get blamed for her depression even if it is unrelated to you. For instance, you just are unable to satisfy her unreasonable needs so you end up looking like the bad guy"

Perth1, I think that's quite a harsh view of people with depression! Sure it may be hard to live with someone who is depressed, but believe me-being depressed is harder. To say you would always get blamed and look like a bad guy when you can't 'satisfy her unreasonable needs'- I really disagree with that. I'm talking about depressed people in general- not Allison. And sorry, yes I just got a little sidetracked :-p I just don't like to see stigma around mental illness being perpetuated.

ANYWAY! As others have said, she was doing a great job mothering her 3 girls and those who knew her did not believe her to be suicidal. I think it's quite obvious this wasn't a suicide (why would she be down in the creek if that was the case anyway). Just because someone is depressed doesn't mean they are unstable and about to kill themselves. Not to mention, the police have made it quite clear this is a homicide investigation.

I hope finding the sim card proves to be helpful! It would be great to get a hold of her iPhone as well. I really hope for her family's sake there is a swift resolution, and for the little girls I hope it isn't Gerard. It would be dreadful for them to lose both parents :-(

Stick
05-01-2012, 12:53 AM
Do any of the locals posting in this forum know of any traffic monitoring cameras or CCTV located between the Baden-Clay house and the location of the body at Kholo Creek? (e.g. Mogill Road, Mt Crosby Road, Rafting Ground Road)

itsthevibe
05-01-2012, 12:55 AM
Perth1 - I understand the concepts behind your hypothesis but I find many aspects of what you say objectionable, almost indicating it is OK to cheat in certain circumstances and blaming the wife. This sort of attitude is what is wrong with so many marriages where there is infidelity. Blame your partner for not being good enough, or being 'a problem' if they get upset at some of your bad behaviour. Then say the partner is difficult, she suffers from depression, and consider it a burden! This version sounds like the way a man uses to justify his infidelity. Many men are brought up not to be emotionally available and GBC has been raised in a family which might have been like that - a bit weird (the kiss is an example) and proud hunters of a range of animals which they truly show off, not even on a den wall in the house - but in a very visible front entry of the house which can be seen through glass even if doors are not open.

It is also quite possible the story happened in reverse in almost every aspect of what you say. What if Allison eventually realised that her husband had anger problems, was psychologically abusive, and a massive flirt with other women? Perhaps he wasnt emotionally available or very caring in certain situations. Then eventually she discovered he was having an affair. They slept in separate rooms for the sake of the children but she was hopeful he would end the affair and they could patch things together. Someone who knows members of her circle of friends well said she found out about the affair sometime ago and he told her he had ended it, but recently she found out he had not. Remember also there was a man who posted about halfway through this thread who described property dealings he and his wife had with GBC. He said GBC flirted with the wife on several occasions, once blatantly in front of him, the husband.

So maybe they had an argument about the affair, he basically didnt want to end it and didnt like her being upset about it, and lost it and hurt her and it went from there.

As for covering up her suicide, I really dont believe an innocent man would do it this way. He could have still given a story that covered his own back but gave police the true version so they would know where the body was. An innocent person in my opinion wouldnt have allowed hundreds of police and emergency workers to work for 10 days straight in the rain and cold to try to find a body, and go through all this when they didnt actually kill her.

It's good to read other opinions of different aspects of this on here, but some posts seem very much having a motive of defending him whereas most of us are exploring the most likely possibilities. Despite the fact that most comments are leaning towards GBC being the perpetrator, I dont think anyone has been against him per se, its just that there are too many things that can't be explained away in his case, even when trying to look at it from different angles.

alicat
05-01-2012, 12:56 AM
Could she have hitchhiked to Kholo Creek?....I know she couldnt walk it.


I drove past that night at around 8.30 and I honestly can't tell you if or not I saw a car. I can't be 100% sure because there have been random cars on that road lately.

But if she did hitch who drove her? Someone would have called the police by now for sure, you'd hope?

If someone asked me to drop them off there I wouldn't! No way! I couldn't :(

alicat
05-01-2012, 12:59 AM
Do any of the locals posting in this forum know of any traffic monitoring cameras or CCTV located between the Baden-Clay house and the location of the body at Kholo Creek? (e.g. Mogill Road, Mt Crosby Road, Rafting Ground Road)

I don't believe there are any. I can't picture any out at Mount Crosby but is there one near the new Fire Station intersection - Pullenvale Road?

Thinking
05-01-2012, 01:03 AM
I live locally too - I have been very touched by this case and my heart is aching for Allison and her family. I just wanted to say that this forum has been so therapeutic for me Ė Iíve been reading it from the very beginning and I feel like we have all been through the shock, anticipation, frustration, bewilderment and grief of Allisonís disappearance together, if that makes sense.


I must admit I do have the same questions as Nursebeeme about the sim card, and the actual phone for that matter. If this altercation happened with GBC at home, I canít imagine what would be on her phone that would incriminate him at that time. Why wouldnít he have just left it at home with her handbag and personal belongings etc Ė can someone help me out?


For those of you who know her (or who have friends who know her) - I wonder if there is any chance at all, that she might have gone out to meet someone that night? I'm certainly not trying to cast her in any type of light by this question - just wondering if there is any possibility of this at all? God knows, if my husband had been having an affair under my nose for two years I would feel more than entitled to find some pleasure in my personal life - but of course I'm not suggesting this as likely, just wondering if there is possibly another scenario. If Allison was going out to meet someone that night, this would shed a whole different light on the circumstances, do you think?


It has been mentioned here that the couple were sleeping in separate bedrooms. So really, it is feasible that he could say goodnight to her as she watched telly, then go to bed and not expect to see her again until the morning. I think the GBC texting and ringing friends story is a furphy as it has only been mentioned once in the press and not repeated, as far as I know. What if she then went out to meet someone, after he went to bed? In her car? She would likely text message the person, then take her phone with her in that case. An earlier post here said that apparently her car was left at the Bífield Showgrounds that night which seemed very bizarre Ė but what if she met this person, they hurt her and left her (near the scout camp to implicate hubby), got rid of the phone and card then drove her car back to the showgrounds so as not to wake anyone by driving it back to her house? I guess there would need to be a third party involved to get the driver away after that - unless this other person lived locally too I guess.

And what if the police are happy for us to all be thinking it is GBC so that this other person gets relaxed and too confident, and perhaps slip up? GBC himself might even know this person?

Maybe this is totally far fetched and I hope I havenít offended anyone by this speculation. I just donít want to face the fact that a man could hurt the beautiful mother of his children, a woman he once loved and cherished and created a family with. It is too hard to accept :(

Keyboredom
05-01-2012, 01:03 AM
I don't believe there are any. I can't picture any out at Mount Crosby but is there one near the new Fire Station intersection - Pullenvale Road?

Maybe that big brick house with gates near Grandview Road bus stop? Looks like it might have security camera type setup (clutching at straws).

Keyboredom
05-01-2012, 01:05 AM
I still firmly believe one individual was responsible for Allison's murder, most likely from an unexpected or accidental escalation of an initial fight/attack. They have probably then panicked, and had a limited window of time to dispose of her body, maybe just trying to do this before daylight.

If she was attacked in the Brookfield area, there are only 4 ways to leave Brookfield which aren't densely populated - and Moggill / Mt Crosby Road is one of those. Having chosen to head that direction, driving along Mt Crosby the area where Allison has been found is one of the first very sparsely populated sections - if you were in a hurry this would be a potential first place to get off the road and try to hide her body.

Sighting of vehicles that moved between where Allison was last seen and where she was found is going to be key - I believe there is not a chance on earth she walked there or did herself harm.

On the depression angle, she was looking after herself, taking regular walks for exercise, maintaining a healthy and busy schedule with her children - not the signs of anyone having major problems with the black dog.

---

On a separate note, I don't understand the situation when she was reported missing. It appears now reliably reported (maybe, info on news channels haven't been too accurate throughout) her husband was the last person to see her, watching TV, at 10pm, before he went to bed. This tallies with people questionong how he could sleep if she was missing - according to the current info he didn't know she had gone missing.

So, when he awoke, Allison was gone, and the information so far indicates he assumed she had gone for her regular morning walk. When she 'failed to return' he called police. If I understand correctly, she would be due to arrive home at around 7am. So why would her being only 30 mins late be seen as important enough to call police at 7.30 am? Would it not be more likely she had stopped for a chat? Or be walking slower than usual, or left a bit late? To me, calling police is the ultimate escalation of an issue, and having gone to that extent - posters, driving the neighbourhood etc would be the next thing to do. There was apparently calls or text messages to friends and parents - but when? After reporting her missing on Fri morning or before ? Because again seems weird to worry people around 7am if Allison is due home any minute? The texts and calls most likely didn't happen after 0730 as the police were onsite interviewing / impounding cars / declaring crime scene.

Perhaps the whole thing makes sense if more is known about what other information was given to police as to why the husband would be so concerned so early in the day.

itsthevibe
05-01-2012, 01:07 AM
Just a couple of thoughts after reading the last few pages of posts since I was last here.

Is the sim confirmed as being from her phone? It may be a total coincidence and just a sim someone threw out from an old phone, and nothing to do with the Baden-Clay case at all.

As for the Baden-Clay sister, my impression of her expressions and reaction was someone quite scared, trying to support her brother but possibly deep down worrying that he might have been involved. I don't think she would know anything or have anything to do with it. I feel for her - what would you do if you thought your brother may have been responsible, it would be pretty hard to bring it up and would eat away at you. Or, you would go into denial and just focus on helping out at home and caring for the kids, and pray for everyone to leave you all alone.

alicat
05-01-2012, 01:12 AM
Maybe that big brick house with gates near Grandview Road bus stop? Looks like it might have security camera type setup (clutching at straws).

Oh yeah I know the one. Perhaps. I was wondering if CSIRO would have anything?

itsthevibe
05-01-2012, 01:20 AM
Some very good points Keyboredom. Giving GBC the benefit of the doubt to some extent, as you say if he last saw her watching TV that night, and they were in separate rooms, it would be quite normal to go to bed to sleep, then wake up the next morning and not worry if she wasnt there - if it coincided with her normal morning walk. So that covers him if you believe this aspect. But as you say if she still hadnt returned half an hour later than usual, it would seem a bit early to call police. She could have stopped to chat to people along the way - plenty of people have early morning walks.

This does make me think it happened differently, otherwise why would he have reported it when he did? Makes me think he already knew something was wrong because it had happened the previous night - caused by him. Or possibly another explanation but i dont know what. So far any alternative ideas dont really add up and seem to have more flaws in them.

The police obviously know much, much more and observing and listening to their comments and implications, what they say and what they dont say, is going to be the most helpful.

SomTum
05-01-2012, 01:24 AM
Hi - long time lurker, first time poster :)

This is a really sad case and I hope that justice for Allison comes quickly. Those poor children :( so tragic for them especially.

I have another theory that I thought I would bring to light, in addition to Thinking's theory. I wonder if GBC's parents are involved somehow? Maybe they have more to do with her disappearance and death than they are letting on....and that pash on tv was a coverup (yuck!).

Perhaps, as Thinking said, they were both seeing other people - his affair and she had met someone to comfort her due to GBC's infidelity? Not sure how plausable this is though.... Maybe that night Allison and GBC have a fight (their relationship couldn't be perfect, thats for sure), he goes to his room, fuming and she had gone out to meet her "friend" to get comfort. GBC calls his parents to vent and they are cross. Perhaps GBC's parents disliked Allison and resented the situation (probably without fully understanding it) and went to "talk" to her... they don't live that far away and they could be angry/enraged. Maybe they hit her with their car accidentally...and then panicked?

Perhaps my theory is ridiculously far fetched and I have been watching too many crime shows on tv hahah. or maybe they are more involved than we are thinking. Even without the theory of Allison having a special someone on the side, they could still be involved...?

Feel free to shoot holes in my idea! ha!

willough
05-01-2012, 01:26 AM
Maybe when he was calling people frantically, it wasnt out of concern......He just wanted her home to take over the kids, so he could leave for work......Still doesn't warrant the police call (as you lovelies state). Things that come into play with this thought, is the time he normally leaves for work. Lets say, he is the only one with a key to the office, he may have been upset that she hadn't come home......he needed to leave to open the office for the employees.................god knows.

BobSuruncle
05-01-2012, 01:26 AM
Do any of the locals posting in this forum know of any traffic monitoring cameras or CCTV located between the Baden-Clay house and the location of the body at Kholo Creek? (e.g. Mogill Road, Mt Crosby Road, Rafting Ground Road)

RSL Fairview retirement village on Moggill Rd has security cameras, but they are angled at their driveway. May still have better I was using Google Streetview to check all the major buildings. That stretch of road (Moggile) is well lit at night, so all cars could be id'd providing resolution is good.

Didn't see any on CSIRO, but that doesn't mean they dont have any.

Couldn't see anything obvious on the shops along Mt Crosby Rd

willough
05-01-2012, 01:30 AM
SomTum....Im not about to shoot holes in anyones theories (including yours)......We are all just putting it out there......Anything is possible. This is just so bizarre, with what appears so many twists and turns. I cant wait to hear more from the police (I feel a bit guilty about feeling I want to know about this poor lady that has passed on). SOOOO Intriguing.

itsthevibe
05-01-2012, 01:33 AM
Maybe when he was calling people frantically, it wasnt out of concern......He just wanted her home to take over the kids, so he could leave for work......Still doesn't warrant the police call (as you lovelies state). Things that come into play with this thought, is the time he normally leaves for work. Lets say, he is the only one with a key to the office, he may have been upset that she hadn't come home......he needed to leave to open the office for the employees.................god knows.

Yes, understand, but why call the police, why not just call her and if she was alive as he (purportedly) innocently thought, then she would just answer her phone? I dont think youd call the police if you just thought your wife was being a bit tardy in getting back so you could go to work - if you actually thought everything else was fine.

Maybe we just dont know enough about it - we are trying to surmise in some areas where we have very little to go on.

alicat
05-01-2012, 01:34 AM
Didn't see any on CSIRO, but that doesn't mean they dont have any.


The front building is Aerospace Engineering so they may have something. Might not want to let people steal their ideas!

crissyz
05-01-2012, 01:37 AM
Also, it hasn't been confirmed that they sleep in separate rooms (to my knowledge) - so as far as everyone knows, they could still be sharing a room and not be 'separated' as such... which would def make his story very strange.
I def agree with the calling the police straight away very odd...especially after such a short time.....
As my experience as working in real estate... the principals often came to the office later.... receptionists would usually open.... so not sure if he was in a rush to get to work that morning, unless of course he had a listing or house viewing etc.

willough
05-01-2012, 01:38 AM
Yes, understand, but why call the police, why not just call her and if she was alive as he (purportedly) innocently thought, then she would just answer her phone? I dont think youd call the police if you just thought your wife was being a bit tardy in getting back so you could go to work - if you actually thought everything else was fine.

Maybe we just dont know enough about it - we are trying to surmise in some areas where we have very little to go on.

Agree completely.....So many things that would have been considered normal morning routine, were thrown way out the window. I cant help but think his head wasnt screwed on right that morning and we all know why......because he knew his wife had met with foul play.

crissyz
05-01-2012, 01:39 AM
He was probably waiting and waiting for this time, all night while he wasnt sleeping after doing the deed.... and then thought as soon as the time came when she didn't come home (half an hour after 7 for example) he called...

God I hope we are wrong and its not him.

alicat
05-01-2012, 01:41 AM
The front building is Aerospace Engineering so they may have something. Might not want to let people steal their ideas!

Just spoke to a friend and nope. Nothing facing the road.

Caviar
05-01-2012, 01:41 AM
For the sake of the 3 children, I hope the majority on this forum is wrong and GBC is not guilty. Losing 1 parent is bad enough.

marlywings
05-01-2012, 01:54 AM
I don't think any of the reports have mentioned what time he supposedly woke up & found her missing??, only that he reported her missing at 7.30

Hillsdon
05-01-2012, 02:00 AM
So sad about Allison. Lets hope that the police make a hasty arrest.

Can someone please post the link with the Baden-Clay parents kiss please, everyone keeps talking about it and somehow I missed it!

Keyboredom
05-01-2012, 02:02 AM
Someone said listen for what police say - one other thing that stood out :

http://www.news.com.au/national/body-found-as-search-for-missing-woman-allison-baden-clay-enters-11th-day/story-e6frfkvr-1226342637603

Inspector's statement :
"Families of Allison Baden-Clay, including the husband's family and Allison's parents Mr and Mrs Dickie, have been advised,'' he said.

Referring to "the husband" sounds pretty impersonal in the circumstances, almost like a pointed lack of respect / acknowledgement. Maybe I'm reading too much into it.

marlywings
05-01-2012, 02:07 AM
So sad about Allison. Lets hope that the police make a hasty arrest.

Can someone please post the link with the Baden-Clay parents kiss please, everyone keeps talking about it and somehow I missed it!


http://video.au.msn.com/watch/video/...mother/xp1r8ud

Keyboredom
05-01-2012, 02:15 AM
I don't think any of the reports have mentioned what time he supposedly woke up & found her missing??, only that he reported her missing at 7.30

This old link says she walked into the night and a neighbour said she left the house and didn't return :
http://www.news.com.au/national/allison-baden-clays-mysterious-disappearance-had-queensland-police-mobilising-a-substantial-force-to-brookfield-within-hours-of-gerard-baden-clays-call/story-e6frfkvr-1226341287303

More recent story :
http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/queensland/missing-mum-wasnt-upset-husband-20120424-1xj28.html
says "...reported his wife Allison Baden-Clay missing on Friday morning after she failed to return to her Brookfield home in Brisbane's west, following an early morning walk."

Then :
http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/national/womans-screams-heard-the-night-brisbane-mum-disappeared/story-e6freuzr-1226341571937 saying
"Previous reports suggested Mr Baden-Clay saw his wife go for a walk on Thursday night, but it is understood he told police he last saw his wife watching the Footy Show on television."

and

http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/queensland/police-launch-unlawful-homicide-investigation-after-womans-body-found-20120430-1xu2l.html#ixzz1tb12JUNW

"... police confirmed today Mr Baden-Clay has maintained he last saw his wife watching television at their home about 10pm that Thursday.

He has told police he woke the next morning to find her missing and raised the alarm about 7.30am."

The awaking next morning seems to be the most recent and widely-reported scenario. Doesn't mean it's right I 'spose.

perth1
05-01-2012, 02:22 AM
Perth1 -
It is also quite possible the story happened in reverse in almost every aspect of what you say.

I agree. I would think you would normally have a history of violence though. I can't imagine someone suddenly breaking to an extremity like murder when there have been no previous incidences.

alicat
05-01-2012, 02:23 AM
Police have confirmed it is Allison's body. I wonder if Gerard will now visit the place she was found.

couriermail.com.au ‏ @couriermail Close
CONFIRMATION that body found yesterday at Kohlo Creek IS that of Allison Baden-Clay

marlywings
05-01-2012, 02:24 AM
He has told police he woke the next morning to find her missing and raised the alarm about 7.30am."

The awaking next morning seems to be the most recent and widely-reported scenario. Doesn't mean it's right I 'spose.

Yes & there's nothing to say what time of morning he woke up & found her missing. So many questions surrounding the whole time frame...did he even go to bed, who knows.

marlywings
05-01-2012, 02:26 AM
I agree. I would think you would normally have a history of violence though. I can't imagine someone suddenly breaking to an extremity like murder when there have been no previous incidences.

Someone on here last night mentioned he had an AVO on him,.. gossip??, again, who really knows.

Liadan
05-01-2012, 02:28 AM
I would say half of Brookfield mothers are taking anti-depressants. And experience some form of depression. Their husbands work long hours and are typically 'absent' from the kids life. This is not meant to be a red rag to a bul l but it is a demographic that can afford to seek help for medical depression and they do. It is not a stigma. Anyway my point is - check out how loving and helpful her parents are - can you imagine they would EVER desert their daughter if she needed help. NO WAY!!! They would be incredibly supportive and doing their utmost to help their 'loving daughter'! JMHO

Keyboredom
05-01-2012, 02:28 AM
Someone on here last night mentioned he had an AVO on him,.. gossip??, again, who really knows.

Maybe gossip, but existence of an AVO would be one reason for police to respond quicker than normal in a missing persons scenario.

bikerchick
05-01-2012, 02:29 AM
BadenClay parents - "lowered their Australian flag in their garden to half mast" according to the Courier Mail.
There's something quite odd about the family...

alicat
05-01-2012, 02:29 AM
Someone on here last night mentioned he had an AVO on him,.. gossip??, again, who really knows.

I didn't think you'd be allowed to live with someone if you had an AVO against them?

Liadan
05-01-2012, 02:29 AM
the way I read it is that he 'apparently' went into panic mode that night, couldn't find her, frantically texted etc. But, given his efforts were fruitless, probably exhausted by all that texting (it can be arduous you know), he gave up and went to bed, then, next morning he called.
He probably flattened her battery!!!

alicat
05-01-2012, 02:30 AM
BadenClay parents - "lowered their Australian flag in their garden to half mast" according to the Courier Mail.
There's something quite odd about the family...

According to the Courier Mail the Police have just confirmed the body found was Allison's.

alicat
05-01-2012, 02:33 AM
RIP Allison. I hope they find the answers to lock away your killer.

indogwetrust
05-01-2012, 02:34 AM
BadenClay parents - "lowered their Australian flag in their garden to half mast" according to the Courier Mail.
There's something quite odd about the family...

I mean really ... it's all so drama. Symbolic and empty gestures which are indeed odd and confounding.

indogwetrust
05-01-2012, 02:35 AM
RIP Allison. I hope they find the answers to lock away your killer.

And to do it quickly, to rob them of any liberty they have. To put them through the hell of a trial, all of which is nothing compared to what Allison may have suffered, what she has lost.

marlywings
05-01-2012, 02:36 AM
I didn't think you'd be allowed to live with someone if you had an AVO against them?

Then I guess there'd be another angle, were they even living together??

willough
05-01-2012, 02:36 AM
BadenClay parents - "lowered their Australian flag in their garden to half mast" according to the Courier Mail.
There's something quite odd about the family...

But patriotism to the country at this time is so important....scoff...scoff. Maybe they are more into regimented respect....mind you that kiss (that has mortified me into having bad dreams) would mean otherwise.

willough
05-01-2012, 02:37 AM
PS : Thanks for bringing in that info Alicat x

marlywings
05-01-2012, 02:38 AM
BadenClay parents - "lowered their Australian flag in their garden to half mast" according to the Courier Mail.
There's something quite odd about the family...

Yes I agree, very weird to be even thinking about a flag of all things at such a time!!!

Liadan
05-01-2012, 02:43 AM
Interesting that the body was 'found' in her walking clothes? Maybe she had been for a walk that evening? Or was planning a walk which would mean she left wayyyyyyyy before 10pm and her footy show episode was sadly missed! I wonder what part of the footy show Gerard watched and if the police were able to determine that he didn't watch it.

marlywings
05-01-2012, 02:45 AM
Maybe they are more into regimented respect....mind you that kiss (that has mortified me into having bad dreams) would mean otherwise.

Regimented scouts no doubt. I watched "that kiss" again when posting the vid link, wish I hadn't, disgusting!!!

Keyboredom
05-01-2012, 02:47 AM
I didn't think you'd be allowed to live with someone if you had an AVO against them?

Not wanting to stretch out the point of it's just gossip but according to http://www.aussiedivorce.com.au/familylawinformation/apprehended-violence-orders-avo.html - an AVO can apply to :

- a person who lives or formerly lived in the same house of (excluding tenant or boarder),
- a person who is or was in an intimate personal relationship with the Offender.

itsthevibe
05-01-2012, 02:54 AM
I agree. I would think you would normally have a history of violence though. I can't imagine someone suddenly breaking to an extremity like murder when there have been no previous incidences.

Not necessarily. There's always a first time isn't there? And you don't know if there were any previous incidences do you? Most domestic violence goes unreported, and some perpetrators psychologically abuse their partners for years, using threatening, twisted nasty language which is quite scary but of course shows no wounds or injuries. Or they physically hurt them in small ways that are hard to detect, such as pushing and shoving, pressing fingers into the skin really hard, twisting the arm a bit, hard enough to really hurt but not to injure visibly etc.

I have experienced this myself and eventually my partner did physically hurt me more dramatically when I said something he didnt like about a woman he seemed to constantly obsess over. In retrospect I have no doubt if the right set of circumstances arose he could have killed me. And at the time I put everything into trying to calm things down so that didnt happen. But people can be very unpredictable, I was just lucky. Some are not so lucky.

marlywings
05-01-2012, 02:55 AM
Just went back to find that post re AVO...says from 3mths ago. IF there was an AVO, what's the bet he came crawling back "a changed man". How often do we hear of that type of thing.

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Australia Australia - Alison Baden-Clay, 43, Brisbane QLD, 19 April 2012

Bobbie Elliott
05-01-2012, 02:56 AM
Irrespective of just about everything (screams, SIM cards, walking conditions etc etc), it seems clear that G B-C has been telling lies (walk times, which car he used etc etc). Even a god-fearing married man having a lengthy extramarital affair is a living lie. Bottom line is that if he didn't hurt/kill Allison, he doesn't need to lie about any aspect of Thurs PM / Friday AM. However, if he did kill her, then .....

Just as an aside: Does anyone really believe that Allison watched The Footy Show (presumably NRL) ???????

Based on many years working in mental health, I'm 99.9% sure that Allison did not comit suicide. She had at least 3 very good reasons to live for. From what all have said about her, she was a clever intelligent woman who would have wanted to hang around to raise her girls, and would certainly not want to leave them in the sole custody of G B-C

I agree with a previous poster, most clinically depressed people are not suicidal or irrational, and no one has said anything to suggest that Allison was, or would ever get anywhere near that point.

Keyboredom
05-01-2012, 03:03 AM
I mean really ... it's all so drama. Symbolic and empty gestures which are indeed odd and confounding.

It might be completely unreasonable but I've come to really dislike everything about that family and their response to this tragedy. Hopefully their behaviour just stems from grief and pressure of media. But "Bwana" numberplates and animal skulls, the granny tongue, and most other things about them now make my skin crawl. Hopefully this is just surface bluff - they had better be looking after those poor little girls.

marlywings
05-01-2012, 03:08 AM
It might be completely unreasonable but I've come to really dislike everything about that family and their response to this tragedy. Hopefully their behaviour just stems from grief and pressure of media. But "Bwana" numberplates and animal skulls, the granny tongue, and most other things about them now make my skin crawl. Hopefully this is just surface bluff - they had better be looking after those poor little girls.

I completely agree with all you've said. I meant to ask when you posted about the numberplates, that wouldn't stand for Botswana do you think??

Keyboredom
05-01-2012, 03:15 AM
I completely agree with all you've said. I meant to ask when you posted about the numberplates, that wouldn't stand for Botswana do you think??

I guess - maybe. His mannerisms look more like he thinks of himself as Bwana (indignant 'excuse me' at reporters at Indooroopilly Police - then again it would be pretty stressful and annoying with cameras in your face) ... and maybe it's completely unreasonable I dislike someone I have never met. The emotion of the situation is getting away with me...

willough
05-01-2012, 03:17 AM
Bwana is a term given to men as respect.....ie Sir, Master, Mister, Lord. It means, he is the lord of his world. PUKE!!!

marlywings
05-01-2012, 03:18 AM
I went googling Baden-Clay, would have to be a brother of Gerard?? very much alike!!

http://scout.org/en/around_the_world/africa/information_events/news/2009/baden_powell_s_great_grandson_winds_up_a_tour_of_k enya

Keyboredom
05-01-2012, 03:25 AM
I went googling Baden-Clay, would have to be a brother of Gerard??

There's some of the family tree at the base of :
http://www.spanglefish.com/bettyclay/index.asp?pageid=166222

including

Gerard and Allison Baden-Clay (grandson); (poor Allison)
Ian and Olivia Walton (grand-daughter); (the poor sister)
Adam Baden-Clay (grandson)

marlywings
05-01-2012, 03:25 AM
The real estate expert sure likes to talk on his blog...

http://www.blogger.com/profile/07907839226403813399

Interests Spending as much time as possible with my family, camping, travelling, Scouting

angel1
05-01-2012, 03:33 AM
They just said on the news here that the police still have no suspects. Yet on the newspaper sites they say that numerous persons of interest were questioned. I'm not going to say anymore about it though because when i just went to the QLD police service page on facebook someone has put a link to this page about the comments. R.I.P. Allison

Caviar
05-01-2012, 03:39 AM
I hope this is resolved soon

Raskolnikov
05-01-2012, 03:45 AM
Maybe Allison was put in her walking clothes to look like she had been for a walk?

If that was the case you think she would have been dumped closer to where she lives so it looks like she went for a local walk.

indogwetrust
05-01-2012, 03:48 AM
It might be completely unreasonable but I've come to really dislike everything about that family and their response to this tragedy. Hopefully their behaviour just stems from grief and pressure of media. But "Bwana" numberplates and animal skulls, the granny tongue, and most other things about them now make my skin crawl. Hopefully this is just surface bluff - they had better be looking after those poor little girls.

Completely agree with you Keyboredom.

I find them irksome, to say the least.

And the thing is, if he is found guilty or in some way connected, his parents' behaviour will be assumed to be more understandable, it will make sense, in the context of being the parents of someone who could such a thing. They'll be lumped in with him when they've had nothing to do with what happened.

Stab in the dark, but I get the feeling they've all relied heavily on the Baden-Powell relationship/name, making them think they are 'special', giving them an element of teflon coating. Somehow, I don't think the pressure has prompted them to act this way. What people do under pressure speaks volumes, we see some people respond with true integrity and character which shines through. I haven't seen any of this from them.

Their behaviour through all of this has been so undignified. You'd think that at the very least they could have shown more respect for Allison.

truthseeker12
05-01-2012, 04:05 AM
Well Angel1 I am sure this website has a disclaimer and police have no power or control over what is said in this forum.

I can understand in their own forum they have protocol and they must conduct themselves
in the manner to uphold that. This is just another form of media and it can't be any worse than the garbage being spat out by the Journo's

The person that posted this link to QPS is probably a little granny with nothing better to do than complain! Seriously they obviously haven't had much exposure to the web

marlywings
05-01-2012, 04:09 AM
Yes I agree with all you've said too indogwetrust. The beautiful people, Denise & Bruce Morcombe come to mind, they showed incredible integrity & character all through the years when Daniel was missing. True heroes that couple!!

marlywings
05-01-2012, 04:13 AM
Yes, I think the police have much better things to do than worry about who's saying what on any one of the gazillion online forums which are currently discussing this case.

indogwetrust
05-01-2012, 04:17 AM
It makes sense that the police have put the kibosh on speculating on their facebook page, because they are ... the police.

They can't be seen condoning speculation or more importantly, facilitating it.

marlywings
05-01-2012, 04:33 AM
Mrs Baden-Clay's husband, Gerard, is devastated his lawyer Darren Mahony said in a statement.

"My client is devastated by the loss of his wife. His family is devastated," Mr Mahony said.

"His primary concern is the welfare of his three very young daughters and attempting to provide some stability and normality to them given the tragic news and despite the unrelenting media barrage."

http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/queensland/confirmed-body-found-in-creek-identified-as-allison-baden-clay/story-e6freoof-1226343926997

marlywings
05-01-2012, 04:38 AM
The photo of Gerard on Courier Mail front page is def not a good look, especially with "pie face" in background.

http://www.couriermail.com.au/

Berry
05-01-2012, 04:42 AM
Mrs Baden-Clay's husband, Gerard, is devastated his lawyer Darren Mahony said in a statement.

"My client is devastated by the loss of his wife. His family is devastated," Mr Mahony said.

"His primary concern is the welfare of his three very young daughters and attempting to provide some stability and normality to them given the tragic news and despite the unrelenting media barrage."

http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/queensland/confirmed-body-found-in-creek-identified-as-allison-baden-clay/story-e6freoof-1226343926997

Yeah right, oh notice the tragic phrase, "his VERY YOUNG daughters", again his focus which really says "back off leave me alone, I am playing this out for a longggggggggggg time"

RIP Allison and sweet hugs and understanding for those blessed girls, they need it now :( Daddy will be very busy dodging bullets for a long time too.

Liadan
05-01-2012, 05:01 AM
Mrs Baden-Clay's husband, Gerard, is devastated his lawyer Darren Mahony said in a statement.

"My client is devastated by the loss of his wife. His family is devastated," Mr Mahony said.

"His primary concern is the welfare of his three very young daughters and attempting to provide some stability and normality to them given the tragic news and despite the unrelenting media barrage."

http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/queensland/confirmed-body-found-in-creek-identified-as-allison-baden-clay/story-e6freoof-1226343926997


Media Barrage - what a load of crap! Everyone including the police has been giving them the space they need. They seem to be indulging themselves in their poor circumstances.

dreambella
05-01-2012, 05:02 AM
That was really funny marly wings...i think we are all a little frustrated with the husband...
on another note..i know when someone looks particularly stressed about things and he is definitely that..no doubt about it..and i have this to say..
regardless of who did it..he is not helping his cause..by his actions or nonactions..it is normal behaviour to look for someone if they are missing..thats just normal. He hasnt done that. He hired a lawyer instead. It is normal behaviour to provide police with a formal statement presumably to help them in their quest to find that person. He didnt do that either. Most people would be distraught if someone close to them was missing. He goes to work. The list goes on and on..very peculiar behaviour. Even if they were splitting up ..going their separate ways.you dont treat that person like they didnt exist and that would seem what he has done....very sad.

indogwetrust
05-01-2012, 05:04 AM
Yeah right, oh notice the tragic phrase, "his VERY YOUNG daughters", again his focus which really says "back off leave me alone, I am playing this out for a longggggggggggg time"

RIP Allison and sweet hugs and understanding for those blessed girls, they need it now :( Daddy will be very busy dodging bullets for a long time too.


This is the second time I've heard a reference to and a plead for 'normality'. The other time was from his sister.

Normality?? Their mother has been found dead, murdered, after 'missing' for eleven days. Their mother. What is 'normal' in circumstances such as these??

Normality should be about allowing them to grieve, to be surrounded by love, to be allowed room to express themselves in whatever form they need to deal with the heartbreak that can't even be put into words.

This push for 'normality' in the face of such pain, grief and horror is unpalatable.

Thinking
05-01-2012, 05:22 AM
He looks like a totally different man from the one in those real estate infomercial thingies...

He looks like he hasn't slept in about 12 days......

Gosh if he is innocent though what a nightmare he would be living right now. I hope they get to the bottom of this soon.

marlywings
05-01-2012, 05:25 AM
Police had searched an area within a 500m radius from where Mrs Baden-Clay's body was found, he said, and had recovered items including a SIM card, gloves and a drink bottle.

However the area is frequented by the public and it was yet to be determined whether those items were connected to Mrs Baden-Clay.

Detective Superintendent Ainsworth said police were not yet able to release information on a possible cause of death.

''A pathologist is still making forensic examinations of the body,'' he said, however he reiterated that police were regarding the death as ''unlawful homicide''.

He said a number of people had been interviewed more than once by police.

http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/queensland/police-confirm-body-as-allison-badenclay-20120501-1xwsw.html

crissyz
05-01-2012, 05:31 AM
G b-c has now engaged a barrister...... hmmmmm....

What do you make of this?

SomTum
05-01-2012, 05:34 AM
Its hard to know what is the right way to behave under tragic circumstances....I mean look at Madeleine McCann's parents and how much they have been dragged through the wringer over the years and yet nothing has been found to implicate them in her dissapearance. Perhaps GBC has been advised by police to stay out of the search, as others have said he might also not be able to afford to not go to work or is trying to keep a "normal" profile for the sake of his children. There really are so many questions that hopefully get answered soon and whoever did this is brought to justice.

indogwetrust
05-01-2012, 05:34 AM
Crissyz, if this is true, wouldn't it only be on advice by his lawyer?

And aren't barristers engaged only when there is an action against you?

Cccclllaareb
05-01-2012, 05:35 AM
Yes news flash: gbc has now appointed a barrister! Omg

marlywings
05-01-2012, 05:44 AM
Twitter post of Steele Tallon
Gerard Baden-Clay says "prudent people" would understand him seeking legal help with the "intense public interest" over his wife

crissyz
05-01-2012, 05:47 AM
I have no idea indogswetrust..... was hoping someone might be able to shed some light.

MysteriousWorld
05-01-2012, 05:48 AM
pru∑dent
   [prood-nt] Show IPA
adjective
1.
wise or judicious in practical affairs; sagacious; discreet or circumspect; sober.
2.
careful in providing for the future; provident: a prudent decision.

Hmmm. Interesting...

marlywings
05-01-2012, 05:53 AM
Barristers are usually only used in courts I would have thought.

indogwetrust
05-01-2012, 05:56 AM
Barristers are usually only used in courts I would have thought.

Yes, that's what I'm thinking, they are advocates/representatives of their clients in court.

I wonder if there's any truth to this? Has someone confused lawyer with barrister?

MysteriousWorld
05-01-2012, 05:59 AM
Wikipedia re Australian Barristers

A barrister is a member of one of the two classes of lawyer found in many common law jurisdictions with split legal professions. Barristers specialise in courtroom advocacy, drafting legal pleadings and giving expert legal opinions. They can be contrasted with solicitors – the other class of lawyer in split professions – who have more direct access with clients, and may do transactional-type legal work. Barristers are rarely hired by clients directly but instead are retained (or instructed) by solicitors to act on behalf of clients.

crissyz
05-01-2012, 05:59 AM
They said on the news.... and in one of the later articles also. will post if i find.

Barristers are hired for difficult cases, and generally only deal with the lawyer/solicitor etc and not direct with the suspect.

marlywings
05-01-2012, 06:01 AM
Yes, that's what I'm thinking, they are advocates/representatives of their clients in court.

I wonder if there's any truth to this? Has someone confused lawyer with barrister?

Could be a bit of confusion. crissyz & Cccclllaareb, where did you hear about a barrister??

Thanks crissyz, answers my question.

laserdisc10
05-01-2012, 06:03 AM
Willough - Agreed! You would just want to grab those 3 little girls of your daughters and hug them and not let them go. I guess being the father he still has right of way...for the time being.
But to answer your query, in last nights news report they stated that GBC and his father (isn't he a strange one too) dropped the 3 girls off to Allisons parents at a park somewhere..while he was at indooro police station i believe..

Oh yes as for the politicians visiting GBC and family...bad taste given what info was floating around. Just don't think its their job to do this. surely his $5,000 donation or whatever minimal amount it may have been doesn't justify a visit under these cloudy circumstances..



If (as has been suggested online) he and they are members of a certain 'men's organisation' they'd publicly (and privately) be doing all in their power on his behalf - including showing public support

The guy who claimed that he and a neighbour heard muffled screams has raised a few eyebrows, particularly in light on information which has been revealed since. So ... another attempting to assist Brother Gerard ?

truthseeker12
05-01-2012, 06:03 AM
Question:

Why is the media saying that the killer could have taken her to the area as early as 8pm? Did the police give out this information?

If the police gave this information over, are they not contradicting Mr Baden Clays version of events? He stated he last saw her at 10pm...Are the police implying that the killer is Mr Baden Clay.

All this conflicting information is driving me bananas!

Cccclllaareb
05-01-2012, 06:04 AM
I heard it as a newsflash, I'm not sure which channel. But you know what the news is like! They may have worded it incorrectly. I'm going to try to find out

crissyz
05-01-2012, 06:08 AM
http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/queensland/confirmed-body-found-in-creek-identified-as-allison-baden-clay/story-e6freoof-1226343926997

marlywings
05-01-2012, 06:11 AM
Question:

Why is the media saying that the killer could have taken her to the area as early as 8pm? Did the police give out this information?

If the police gave this information over, are they not contradicting Mr Baden Clays version of events? He stated he last saw her at 10pm...Are the police implying that the killer is Mr Baden Clay.

All this conflicting information is driving me bananas!


Police said the movements of the Baden-Clay's vehicles Ė a white Toyota Prado and a silver Holden Captiva Ė between 8pm on April 19 and 6am on April 20 are now key in the investigation.

Superintendent Ainsworth has called for anyone with information about the movements of the vehicles to contact police.

http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/queensland/a-family-waits-for-answers-20120430-1xut4.html

truthseeker12
05-01-2012, 06:13 AM
"Police believe the killer could have taken Mrs Baden-Clay's body to the area as early as 8pm on Thursday April 19."

Retrieved: http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/queensland/confirmed-body-found-in-creek-identified-as-allison-baden-clay/story-e6freoof-1226343926997

itsthevibe
05-01-2012, 06:14 AM
If (as has been suggested online) he and they are members of a certain 'men's organisation' they'd publicly (and privately) be doing all in their power on his behalf - including showing public support

The guy who claimed that he and a neighbour heard muffled screams has raised a few eyebrows, particularly in light on information which has been revealed since. So ... another attempting to assist Brother Gerard ?

I'm not sure what men's organisation you mean - can you enlighten what you are getting at here? (No criticism meant, just that a few different types of organisations come to mind).

willough
05-01-2012, 06:16 AM
Question:
All this conflicting information is driving me bananas!

Like many of us I daresay. Information wise, this almost seems like a three ring circus. :what:

marlywings
05-01-2012, 06:17 AM
'men's organisation' = scouts?? that's the first thought that came to mind.

willough
05-01-2012, 06:20 AM
I thought laserdisc10 meant the masonics or something like that.

itsthevibe
05-01-2012, 06:22 AM
Yes, I should have realised it's scouts, but then Laserdisc said something about 'Brother Gerard" and I started thinking about the Masons or Order of the Buffalo or something, then i was thinking something to do with the church.

willough
05-01-2012, 06:24 AM
'Order of the Buffalo'?...............Sounds very South African!!!! (now im clutching at straws.

indogwetrust
05-01-2012, 06:29 AM
Apologies if someone else has already covered this today.

It seems more likely that Allison would have been left at the scout camp, not from over the bridge.

When we had that rain out here a few days ago, the creeks came up so quickly as there's still a lot of water around. Normally it takes more rain to get them to come up that fast. I remember thinking that if she is in water, this rain will move her and I took a closer look at a number of creeks out here from the road.

It was a lot of water, she was found on the bank, after the water had receded. The bridge is also very visible and a lot of people travel on that road at that time of night.

It's not feasible. So it must be the camp.

But in saying that, the link to him is too obvious, he wouldn't have been that stupid.

Could this have been a set up as someone else has suggested, to implicate him?

marlywings
05-01-2012, 06:29 AM
If (as has been suggested online) he and they are members of a certain 'men's organisation' they'd publicly (and privately) be doing all in their power on his behalf - including showing public support

The guy who claimed that he and a neighbour heard muffled screams has raised a few eyebrows, particularly in light on information which has been revealed since. So ... another attempting to assist Brother Gerard ?

How far do you think this "assistance" could go??

itsthevibe
05-01-2012, 06:34 AM
I do think the Barrister being involved at this stage is a bit unusual, as you usually only engage one once you've been charged and know you are going to court.

But the article on one of those links indicates his lawyer said the Barrister was being engaged to help him with various things including dealing with the media. That is one thing Barristers do for a court case, they coach their witness so they present the best possible face to the jury and media. So maybe we are going to see Gerard start to speak more publicly after his Barrister prepares him? The start of presenting a more positive image because they actually think he is going to be charged at some point in time?

Honestly while some people might think this is all understandable under the cirumstances, when I think about anyone I know who is honest and innocent, or myself, I dont think any of this would be an issue. My own feelings and emotions would show through to anyone who saw or heard me, while I was speaking to the public, media etc during the long period of time I would have been helping with the search. And also when I was being questioned by the police.

Maybe I am judging him harshly and if I turn out to be wrong I'll be eating humble pie and apologising, but this is a guy who has done numerous videos in his work and is no stranger to speaking in public. If whatever you say comes from the heart it eventually shows through, even when you are upset. Why would you need a Barrister to coach you unless you were guilty and struggling to fake concern and ensure you don't slip up?

I guess if you were innocent and you really thought things were going to look bad for you no matter what, you might get scared and go down that track, so maybe I am judging too harshly here.

alicat
05-01-2012, 06:39 AM
Mmm yes, maybe he's about to talk or confess?

Raskolnikov
05-01-2012, 06:40 AM
Wouldn't you wait to be charged before you hired literally a legal defence team?

truthseeker12
05-01-2012, 06:41 AM
I have lived out here for years and I can say I still don't know much about the area, in terms of bushland, creeks etc.

I have looked at the map of our area and looked for possible entry points and all I can see as a plausible entry point is the rafting ground reservoir (someone correct me if I am wrong). Without having to go to the effort of dragging a body through dense bushland. Not sure of the likelihood of a body washing from Brookfield to Anstead in 11 days, and of all the places, to come to rest not far from a scout camp.

What is everybody else thinking in terms of entry and exit points?

indogwetrust
05-01-2012, 06:43 AM
But I don't think your lawyer engages a barrister to be a 'coach'. There are plenty of spin-doctors out there who specialise in that, they coach people before they do interviews for 60mins etc.

A barrister knows the law, that's what they will be advising in.

But I still don't think this implies guilt.

As I've said before, any of us by now whether guilty or innocent would have done the same.

indogwetrust
05-01-2012, 06:45 AM
I have lived out here for years and I can say I still don't know much about the area, in terms of bushland, creeks etc.

I have looked at the map of our area and looked for possible entry points and all I can see as a plausible entry point is the rafting ground reservoir (someone correct me if I am wrong). Without having to go to the effort of dragging a body through dense bushland. Not sure of the likelihood of a body washing from Brookfield to Anstead in 11 days, and of all the places, to come to rest not far from a scout camp.

What is everybody else thinking in terms of entry and exit points?

I meant that they drove to the scout camp, or nearby, that's where they left her and she has been washed down with all the water to under the bridge.

laserdisc10
05-01-2012, 06:46 AM
I thought laserdisc10 meant the masonics or something like that.

Uh huh. Yep

crissyz
05-01-2012, 06:46 AM
Will be interested to see if G b-c attends her funeral..... or if he will continue to hide out at his parents place......
...unless he is charged by then..... but he'll prob get day release and get chapperoned to the service. Hoping she gets the funeral she deserves and that, as difficult as it will be, is planned by her loving and respectful parents.

silver01
05-01-2012, 06:46 AM
I was certain this guy was guilty from the time i heard the details of wife going for walk at 10pm and never returning.
It was confirmed 100% when i watched his first and only public comments.
What a poor showing, no pleas to the public, diverting the topic.
Rather than having a mortified look on his face and pleaing with the public for information.
Not one bit genuine and the fake cry (no tears of course) was a compete giveaway.
There were so many major red flags.

His parents too creep me out on many levels, the deliberate, disrespectful, untimely arrogant repulsive kiss.

The big animals skulls outside there front door, the flag at half mast.
The coward bunkered down to weather the storm for a week then off to work, and school for the kids.
All this even before his wife had been found.
Th face scratches, blatantly crashing his car at low speed.
The perfect gentle family man who loved and adroed his wife.
Who was proven to be CHEATING, MANIPULATING & LYING.

You can guarantee Allisons parents have not been anywhere near the Bayden-Clays and by all reports they haven't.
That's for a very good reason.

I guess now it comes down to the mistress, holes in his story, what the kids have to say, the phone and other evidence.

bikerchick
05-01-2012, 06:47 AM
Apologies if someone else has already covered this today.

It seems more likely that Allison would have been left at the scout camp, not from over the bridge.

When we had that rain out here a few days ago, the creeks came up so quickly as there's still a lot of water around. Normally it takes more rain to get them to come up that fast. I remember thinking that if she is in water, this rain will move her and I took a closer look at a number of creeks out here from the road.

It was a lot of water, she was found on the bank, after the water had receded. The bridge is also very visible and a lot of people travel on that road at that time of night.

It's not feasible. So it must be the camp.

But in saying that, the link to him is too obvious, he wouldn't have been that stupid.

Could this have been a set up as someone else has suggested, to implicate him?

Indog, that makes a lot of sense to me. If he did it, maybe he didn't think it through, thought he knew the area so well that she'd be impossible to find. I'd really hope that it wasn't him as then the kids will lose both parents but the peculiar behaviour and not being on the front line with her parents for the last 11 days just looks so terribly suss.

willough
05-01-2012, 06:47 AM
I think regarding the searching, we may all be behaving a twee harsh...not just you itsthevibe, all of us.

I was rabbiting to hubby last night about how he hasnt been searching....and hubby thought I was crazy. He said, the police would never let him search. Particularly if they have an ounce of thought he was involved. He could pick up evidence and pocket it......he could hinder the investigation by searching. ie Imagine, he accidently dropped the sim card in the night.......then was allowed to search...........he could pick it up and pocket it. Noone knowing of its existence.

Hubby feels though that it was highly unusual of GBC to not be in attendance at the showgrounds, waiting there for info, rather than having the police come to them.....Irrespective of the relationship with the Dickie's.....this was a time for him to consider Allison a priority..............even over those lovely little girls (which my heart goes out to). Allison at this time, was the priority. God, there must be times where a wife is a priority....and surely her being missing should be that time. :(

alicat
05-01-2012, 06:50 AM
I just realised Allison's name is spelt incorrectly in the title. Can that be changed for respect to Allison and her loved ones? Thanks.

truthseeker12
05-01-2012, 06:51 AM
How is the scout camp accessed?

willough
05-01-2012, 06:52 AM
Hubby also feels that GBC could easily dump Allison at the camp, then claim the good ole reverse psychology... "As if I would dump my wife....somewhere i'm so familiar with".....Hubby says it's common for the perpetrator to claim "as if I would put her somewhere so obvious"...when they actually do it, in an effort to make it seem SOOOOO obvious, that people would think otherwise (he was framed). Thankfully, the police of today are entirely too savvy to not see through such utter CRAP.

Juno64
05-01-2012, 06:54 AM
Apologies if someone else has already covered this today.

It seems more likely that Allison would have been left at the scout camp, not from over the bridge.

When we had that rain out here a few days ago, the creeks came up so quickly as there's still a lot of water around. Normally it takes more rain to get them to come up that fast. I remember thinking that if she is in water, this rain will move her and I took a closer look at a number of creeks out here from the road.

It was a lot of water, she was found on the bank, after the water had receded. The bridge is also very visible and a lot of people travel on that road at that time of night.

It's not feasible. So it must be the camp.

But in saying that, the link to him is too obvious, he wouldn't have been that stupid.

Could this have been a set up as someone else has suggested, to implicate him?


Living at Mt Crosby and driving over the bridge the last few days I have been giving this alot of thought. As I mentioned in an earlier post however, once you get up the creek away from the river, Kholo creek is small with many obstructions. The rain over the weekend was steady but not heavy out here, I really don't think there would have been enough water to wash a body all that way, and if there was I think it would be unlikely that it would come so close to making it into the river but stop 30m short, coincidentally directly under the overpass. Even though many cars drive over the bridge, there is no pedestrian traffic and visits by people fishing are very irregular. I wouldn't surprise me at all if the body lay on the bank undiscovered for some time. Also, the mud on the river bank is very dense and sticky. I would think a body falling into it with some force could become pretty well stuck in place.

I also think that this murder wasn't premeditated, it's just all too messy. If GBC or someone else needed to dispose of a body in a hurry, they would not have time to drag a body a long way through the bush. If they did, they would have been better off burying it rather than dumping it. It seems to me that the perpetrator has panicked, left Broofield driving away from town which by default led them onto Mt Crosby Rd. Although there is regular traffic over the bridge in the evening, you can see headlights coming from a fair distance and it would only take a few seconds to pull up on the bridge and shove a body over the edge. There certainly are other possibilities, but given all the known circumstances this just seems the most likely.

Juno64
05-01-2012, 06:57 AM
How is the scout camp accessed?

The entrance to the Scout camp is at the end of Bunya street, the first turnoff after the bridge. From memory it has a gate and no entry sign. It is a gravel dead end street with several houses before the gate. I would imagine if someone drive in there in the early hours of the evening it is possible that someone would notice, although the houses are set back from the road. You would have to drag the body a fair distance down a hill to the the creek.

indogwetrust
05-01-2012, 06:58 AM
Hubby also feels that GBC could easily dump Allison at the camp, then claim the good ole reverse psychology... "As if I would dump my wife....somewhere i'm so familiar with".....Hubby says it's common for the perpetrator to claim "as if I would put her somewhere so obvious"...when they actually do it, in an effort to make it seem SOOOOO obvious, that people would think otherwise (he was framed). Thankfully, the police of today are entirely too savvy to not see through such utter CRAP.

Or this willough, if you were so panicked, freaking out, not knowing where to go from B'field, as I think Keyboredom (apologies if I've got this wrong) said days ago, clearly they would turn right onto Moggill rd (at the junction coming from rafting ground) not left which leads to the city. But once on that road, if you're in a panic you would instinctively seek something known to you and perhaps in such a state of panic you can't help but go to a known place rather than unknown?

p.s your hubby is pretty switched on!

crissyz
05-01-2012, 07:07 AM
Just some reading on missing persons.... no time frame re reporting a missing person...

http://www.police.qld.gov.au/News+and+Alerts/missingPersons/

willough
05-01-2012, 07:13 AM
Or this willough, if you were so panicked, freaking out, not knowing where to go from B'field, as I think Keyboredom (apologies if I've got this wrong) said days ago, clearly they would turn right onto Moggill rd (at the junction coming from rafting ground) not left which leads to the city. But once on that road, if you're in a panic you would instinctively seek something known to you and perhaps in such a state of panic you can't help but go to a known place rather than unknown?

p.s your hubby is pretty switched on!

Agree.....When one is in such a state of panic, one wants an easy, sort it out now solution.....I daresay whoever it was wanted to frantically get rid of Allison's body.

Juno64
05-01-2012, 07:22 AM
Or this willough, if you were so panicked, freaking out, not knowing where to go from B'field, as I think Keyboredom (apologies if I've got this wrong) said days ago, clearly they would turn right onto Moggill rd (at the junction coming from rafting ground) not left which leads to the city. But once on that road, if you're in a panic you would instinctively seek something known to you and perhaps in such a state of panic you can't help but go to a known place rather than unknown?

p.s your hubby is pretty switched on!



I wonder if people aren't reading a little too much into this scout connection. Sure, he has the family connection, but it seems to me that he was the sort of guy that was only interested in using this to bolster his image. He doesn't really strike me as the sort of guy who actually spent time visiting or exploring any of these camps. Is there anything to suggest he was involved in the scouting movement in any hands-on capacity?

indogwetrust
05-01-2012, 07:25 AM
I wonder if people aren't reading a little too much into this scout connection. Sure, he has the family connection, but it seems to me that he was the sort of guy that was only interested in using this to bolster his image. He doesn't really strike me as the sort of guy who actually spent time visiting or exploring any of these camps. Is there anything to suggest he was involved in the scouting movement in any hands-on capacity?

Am pretty sure both he and Allison were involved in the scouting movement (?).

There was a beautiful picture I saw the other day, his three girls all dressed in pink, clinging onto their daddy. GBC was in a scout uniform, at least it looked like one.

alicat
05-01-2012, 07:26 AM
Or this willough, if you were so panicked, freaking out, not knowing where to go from B'field, as I think Keyboredom (apologies if I've got this wrong) said days ago, clearly they would turn right onto Moggill rd (at the junction coming from rafting ground) not left which leads to the city. But once on that road, if you're in a panic you would instinctively seek something known to you and perhaps in such a state of panic you can't help but go to a known place rather than unknown?

p.s your hubby is pretty switched on!

There's also a lot more cameras down towards the city. There's a traffic monitor camera at the roundabout in Kenmore which takes shots every 60 seconds (I believe) then there are red light cameras - a lot more traffic especially as it was a Thursday night (late night shopping at Indro). Turning right seemed the better option for the killer.

alicat
05-01-2012, 07:29 AM
Am pretty sure both he and Allison were involved in the scouting movement (?).

There was a beautiful picture I saw the other day, his three girls all dressed in pink, clinging onto their daddy. GBC was in a scout uniform, at least it looked like one.

I posted that one today - from a Perth newspaper. It should be a few pages back.

marlywings
05-01-2012, 07:31 AM
On his blog he says...

http://www.blogger.com/profile/07907839226403813399

Interests Spending as much time as possible with my family, camping, travelling, Scouting

Juno64
05-01-2012, 07:36 AM
Am pretty sure both he and Allison were involved in the scouting movement (?).

There was a beautiful picture I saw the other day, his three girls all dressed in pink, clinging onto their daddy. GBC was in a scout uniform, at least it looked like one.

I saw the same photo, but that's exactly what I mean. It all seems like it was just for show, especially since he didn't have any sons. Just found this in a recent article:

Scouts Queensland general manager Ian Lightbody ... said he did not personally know Mr Baden-Clay, who is the great grandson of the worldwide Scout movement's founder, Lord Robert Baden-Powell.

However, other groups remember Mr Baden-Clay talking to them and he was listed in 2008 on The Scout Association of Australia Queensland Branch for Oxley Scout Group.

I just doubt that he knew these areas in any detail. A walk down the hill from the entrance to the camp to the creek would be quite treacherous, especially while carrying a body.

indogwetrust
05-01-2012, 07:40 AM
Scouts are for boys and girls these days.

alicat
05-01-2012, 07:42 AM
These back paths are also used by mountain bikers on a regular basis. My husband was actually up near the scout camp on Sunday.

Here's a map of one of the tracks the guys take - http://www.mtbdirt.com.au/file/mt_crosby_map_0_465.jpg

marlywings
05-01-2012, 07:43 AM
There's also a lot more cameras down towards the city. There's a traffic monitor camera at the roundabout in Kenmore which takes shots every 60 seconds (I believe)

Run by Qld transport

http://www.tmr.qld.gov.au/Traffic-cameras-by-location/Traffic-cameras.aspx?name=Kenmore - Moggill Road - Kenmore Road (East)

Juno64
05-01-2012, 07:45 AM
Scouts are for boys and girls these days.

Sorry, my mistake. I could of course be completely wrong. Having a look at Google Earth I just noticed a number of vehicle parked right next to the creek at the camp, so maybe it would be quite easy to access the creek if you knew where you were going and it would be a much less conspicuous place to offload a body if no-one was around than the overpass.

indogwetrust
05-01-2012, 07:48 AM
Sorry, my mistake. I could of course be completely wrong. Having a look at Google Earth I just noticed a number of vehicle parked right next to the creek at the camp, so maybe it would be quite easy to access the creek if you knew where you were going and it would be a much less conspicuous place to offload a body if no-one was around than the overpass.

I think the police are focussing their search for clues etc around the two scout camps in that area.

Juno64
05-01-2012, 07:49 AM
These back paths are also used by mountain bikers on a regular basis. My husband was actually up near the scout camp on Sunday.

Here's a map of one of the tracks the guys take - http://www.mtbdirt.com.au/file/mt_crosby_map_0_465.jpg

There are miles of interconnecting fire trails between Mt Crosby, Pullenvale and Brookfield, I used to walk them regularly, but they are not accessible by vehicle. It would be way too far to drag a body from the nearest entry to the creek. If you were going this route, you would be better off just going a ways of the path and hiding the body there.

Juno64
05-01-2012, 07:53 AM
I think the police are focussing their search for clues etc around the two scout camps in that area.

The other scout camp, Allawah, is a good 10kms further out by road through Karana Downs, past a police station and across Colleges Crossing. It would take another 15min to get there and I doubt very much that there will be anything related found out there.

indogwetrust
05-01-2012, 07:57 AM
The other scout camp, Allawah, is a good 10kms further out by road through Karana Downs, past a police station and across Colleges Crossing. It would take another 15min to get there and I doubt very much that there will be anything related found out there.

Yeah, I think Tyamolum scout camp is the more likely.

perth1
05-01-2012, 08:02 AM
If GBC dragged and dropped Allison on the creek bed I would say it is likely that mud would be in the car, stuck on his shoes or boots. If GBC did it, I think the case will be closed very soon. Too many things to go wrong for him to cover up. Especially if her body was dumped on the creek bed rather than over a bridge and into the river. Plus just need proof one of the cars was on the road before 10pm and after 7-8pm. If it was before 8pm the kids should know what is going on. Gets ugly. I wonder if he is missing any shoes/clothing. Be good to get verification about blood being found in the car mentions by a previous poster.

dreambella
05-01-2012, 08:03 AM
I was thinking does anyone know Allisons parents address so I could put some flowers there and a note..they seem like the darlingest people and no doubt their daughter was the light of their lives ...nothing can help them with their devastation i am sure..however at least they will know people do care...

Cccclllaareb
05-01-2012, 08:08 AM
I was thinking the same thing dreambella- I wish there was something we could do for her parents, and daughters.

Yes good point about the mud being transferred into the car. Hmmm and about the blood- hadn't heard that before. I was under the impression the cars have since been returned so I thought nothing too suspect could have been in/on them?

marlywings
05-01-2012, 08:22 AM
A lot of talk was about a scratch on his face, when he crashed that car was it perhaps an attempt to cover up some other injury??

Juno64
05-01-2012, 08:23 AM
I really don't mean to foster unsubstantiated rumours, but I was told by a reliable owner of a local business that Allison frequented that she periodically came in with bruising that may suggest some domestic abuse.

willough
05-01-2012, 08:24 AM
A person on facebook just wrote "Sky news has just said that part of the land where they found Allison is owned by her husband's great grandfather.... Just stating what the news said.... No speculation here"

HMMMMMMMMM!!!!

dreambella
05-01-2012, 08:26 AM
omg..if thats true about the land being owned by the family..that is really sick...

nursebeeme
05-01-2012, 08:29 AM
peeps: please do not link to topix or other forums. Thank you.

Juno64
05-01-2012, 08:30 AM
A person on facebook just wrote "Sky news has just said that part of the land where they found Allison is owned by her husband's great grandfather.... Just stating what the news said.... No speculation here"

HMMMMMMMMM!!!!


As the body was found under an overpass I would be pretty certain it was not on privately owned property. The main water supply pipes that run from the Mt Crosby water treatment plant into town run parallel to the road, so most of the area near the road govt controlled. Again, it sounds like the scout connection is being taken a little out of context.

alicat
05-01-2012, 08:34 AM
Going outbound, the pipes are on the left hand side. If she was left near the scout hall it would be on the right hand side where I believe there is no pipe?

dreambella
05-01-2012, 08:36 AM
Dear Allison,

May God bless you and rest in peace..and may many angels flutter around you..

indogwetrust
05-01-2012, 08:38 AM
As the body was found under an overpass I would be pretty certain it was not on privately owned property. The main water supply pipes that run from the Mt Crosby water treatment plant into town run parallel to the road, so most of the area near the road govt controlled. Again, it sounds like the scout connection is being taken a little out of context.

So are you saying Juno that it's all a coincidence, where Allison was found, the proximity and possible relationship to the scout camp and GBC's association with scouting (both historically and his own personal involvement)?

Just a minor point re: the news - his great grandfather is dead, he can't own the land, so either he used to own it or it has been passed down to someone else in the family,

kiwijayne
05-01-2012, 08:42 AM
A person on facebook just wrote "Sky news has just said that part of the land where they found Allison is owned by her husband's great grandfather.... Just stating what the news said.... No speculation here"

HMMMMMMMMM!!!!

Small problem with that his family came to Australia from South Africa. Not sure that he would have owned land here.

willough
05-01-2012, 08:42 AM
Those homes along Wirrabara Road seem privately owned.................Now, im really speculating.... :/

Juno64
05-01-2012, 08:48 AM
So are you saying Juno that it's all a coincidence, where Allison was found, the proximity and possible relationship to the scout camp and GBC's association with scouting (both historically and his own personal involvement)?

Just a minor point re: the news - his great grandfather is dead, he can't own the land, so either he used to own it or it has been passed down to someone else in the family,

Of course I'm just speculating, but I just think people tend to overthink things a little. As has been discussed earlier, leaving Brookfield heading away from civilisation would lead you onto Moggill rd, then Mt Crosby rd as Moggill leads back into suburbia at Bellbowrie. If the GBC was in a hurry to get back to his sleeping kids he would be frantically looking for a quick place to unload the body. The stretch before the bridge is the first area where there are no houses nearby and if there was no visible traffic it would be easy to quickly drop the body without having to take time to disguise it. As I also mentioned earlier, I used to live in a property that backs onto the creek a few hundred meters up from the camp and unless it is really pouring with rain, it is more like a gully with a few small waterholes with alot of rocky outcrops and debris. The area at the camp where the creek is accessible is better part of 1km upstream. I honestly don't believe that we have had the sort of rain in the last week that would wash a body that far without getting stuck, just to have it settle on a bank 30m from the river [I]directly[I] below the overpass. Coincidences are everywhere if you look hard enough, but usually the simplest explanation is the most likely one.

possumheart
05-01-2012, 08:49 AM
I heard about the AVO from a reliable source!

possumheart
05-01-2012, 08:54 AM
And the local forensic pathologist is family so I am watching closely.

BrisbaneGirl
05-01-2012, 08:55 AM
I actually expected the husband and his family to push more along the lines of her depression and unstable-ness.....

Regardless, I don't think no matter how depressed, she would commit suicide and leave those beautiful children with a man she doens't love or probably respect. her girls are probably one of the things that keep her going if she was that depressed.
As he lawyered up from day one he would have had the benefit of legal advice so as to avoid making mistakes like focusing on her depression, how obvious that would look, he is obviously not as dumb as some people think otherwise he would of been arrested by now.Think about it everyone, what is his job? He lies for a living, agents are experts in telling people what they want to hear,how many stories over the years do you know of agents telling people they will get so much more only to then hassle you to drop the price while telling the buyer there are multiple offers in? also, he was having an affair as well!! Lies at work everyday of his life in a job that perfects your body language skills and then lies to his family but somehow posts a video about how "honest" he is!!
Only the naive would believe a wordhe had to say which is why the police have probably stopped talking to him as they know with legal representation they will need a strong case so why waste time talking to a liar? Also another abvious point I thought of, if there is a murderer running around killing mothers in wealthy suburbs in the night, where are the police warnings to "lock up and watch your daughters" the reason there has been none of this is obviously because they know who it is and now all they need is enough proof. I just hope he doesnt go one step further and do a murder suicide as there is that danger, it has happened many times before when people feel pushed into the corner. Where are his children and who is staying with them?

alicat
05-01-2012, 08:59 AM
I saw this on another site (I don't know if it's already been posted). Was written by someone else - After speaking to police officers who went to the Baden-clay house first, apparently, they noted that he had scratches down his face and chest

itsthevibe
05-01-2012, 09:02 AM
I am just keen to hear more facts and information now - the forensic investigations including autopsy are going to be crucial but might take a while. I hope they can find some conclusive information that helps them identify the killer. What worries me is she was in the water for so long and that will make it so much harder. I said very early on that I think it is possible they won't be able to find enough evidence to convict someone. I still think that's possible.

But then we don't know what else they already know - such as what they found in the cars. They could have had quite a few other very useful pieces of evidence from the beginning which theyve been holding onto as they build their case. There are the other things they took away from their searches at the Baden-Clay homes. At the time they said they did a thorough search of the parents shed but nothing has been mentioned about that since.

BrisbaneGirl
05-01-2012, 09:06 AM
They don't let murderer's out of jail on day release to go to their victims funerals, can you imagine what the family and friends of a victim would do if the killer rocked up to the funeral, there would be an extra body to be buried.

willough
05-01-2012, 09:06 AM
I agree itsthevibe....The police are still coming out really strenuously stating that information posts are still open, they still wants anything they can grab at, which to me, indicates they dont have enough.....I enjoy all our theories, thoughts etc on here......But as much as this has been wonderful and morbidly entertaining...............I want the person who killed that poor lady, caught. (im sure like most of you).

I hope they can ping the mongrel who did this to her.....GBC or not, I want them caught

BrisbaneGirl
05-01-2012, 09:07 AM
That was a response to CRISSYZ, forgot to add the quoted comment in, rest assured if he did it he will not be let out.

silver01
05-01-2012, 09:08 AM
As he lawyered up from day one he would have had the benefit of legal advice so as to avoid making mistakes like focusing on her depression, how obvious that would look, he is obviously not as dumb as some people think otherwise he would of been arrested by now.Think about it everyone, what is his job? He lies for a living, agents are experts in telling people what they want to hear,how many stories over the years do you know of agents telling people they will get so much more only to then hassle you to drop the price while telling the buyer there are multiple offers in? also, he was having an affair as well!! Lies at work everyday of his life in a job that perfects your body language skills and then lies to his family but somehow posts a video about how "honest" he is!!
Only the naive would believe a wordhe had to say which is why the police have probably stopped talking to him as they know with legal representation they will need a strong case so why waste time talking to a liar? Also another abvious point I thought of, if there is a murderer running around killing mothers in wealthy suburbs in the night, where are the police warnings to "lock up and watch your daughters" the reason there has been none of this is obviously because they know who it is and now all they need is enough proof. I just hope he doesnt go one step further and do a murder suicide as there is that danger, it has happened many times before when people feel pushed into the corner. Where are his children and who is staying with them?

1) His sister jumped in to the first interview and was quick to point out Allison had depression.
2) Good point, no public warnings about a murderer on the loose killing innocent victims, that's because the police know he did it.
3) Maybe, less than 10% chance
4) The kids are probably with the creepy grandparents.