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SoSueMe
04-21-2012, 06:06 AM
Trial Discussion Thread:

reposting a few of the warnings:

Salem's warning from last week:

Okay everybody - LISTEN UP! We are not bashing, accusing or blaming Tori's family here. It won't be allowed.

Children walk home from school every day without incident. Parents are not perfect, it's just not possible. Tori's parents DID NOT do this to her. TLM and an accomplice DID. That is where the blame goes.

We had a lot of family bashing in the early parts of this investigation after Tori went missing and a lot of baseless accusations - NONE OF WHICH PROVED TO BE TRUE. Victim and family bashing will not be allowed during this trial.

Thank you,
Salem

---------------------------------


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Websleuths Co-Owner

------

Please keep discussion focused on what has been presented in testimony and remember to link up as the partial publication ban is still in place

Salem
04-23-2012, 12:50 PM
Short week this week and we are 1/2 way through already.

Salem

SoSueMe
04-26-2012, 05:17 AM
*Bump*

~n/t~
04-26-2012, 06:13 AM
Good Morning!

http://pagansagainstchildabuse.spruz.com/user/371556/images/ToriStafford4.png

~n/t~
04-26-2012, 06:15 AM
Christie Blatchford: Nothing can top horror of McClintic, Rafferty jail visit after Stafford death

LONDON, Ont. – For just a minute, there in the visitors lounge at the Genest Detention Centre on the evening of May 12, 2009, it looked as though Terri-Lynne McClintic and Michael Rafferty were slow dancing.

Their arms were wrapped around one another; their feet shuffled just a bit.

Thirty-four days before, though there has been quibbling over the details ever since, the two had presided at the burial of the little girl named Victoria (Tori) Stafford.

So there they were, now dancing or almost dancing, on that child’s grave.


http://fullcomment.nationalpost.com/2012/04/25/christie-blatchford-nothing-can-top-horror-of-mcclintic-rafferty-jail-visit-after-stafford-death/

~n/t~
04-26-2012, 06:17 AM
Rafferty visited McClintic in detention

http://www.lfpress.com/news/london/raffertytrial/2012/04/25/19680306.html



RAW VIDEO: Rafferty visits McClintic 05/12/09

http://www.lfpress.com/news/london/raffertytrial/2012/04/25/19679806.html

~n/t~
04-26-2012, 06:28 AM
They act like young lovers everywhere, hugging, holding hands, teasing each other, laughing.

He shows off his biceps and caresses her hair. She knocks away a magazine he uses like a telescope to peer at her.

It is all so romantic, so normal.

Except that a month earlier, the young lovers were - at the very least - present when a charming little eight-year-old girl was beaten to death with a hammer, stuffed in garbage bags, and discarded under a pile of rocks.

Except that their acts of young love were caught on surveillance camera at the Genest youth detention centre in London, and the young woman, Terri-Lynne McClintic, would confess a few days later to abducting the girl, Victoria (Tori) Stafford, April 8, 2009.

The lawyer for the man, Michael Rafferty, has suggested that abduction was McClintic's idea and his client was a horrified bystander who didn't see the killing, but agreed to help clean up.

Yet through a timeline of phone calls and showing of Genest surveillance video, the Crown painted a picture Wednesday of Rafferty keen on keeping in touch with McClintic and showing no signs of being horrified with her behaviour.


http://www.lfpress.com/news/london/raffertytrial/2012/04/25/19680036.html

BorgQueen
04-26-2012, 06:50 AM
Rafferty visited McClintic in detention

http://www.lfpress.com/news/london/raffertytrial/2012/04/25/19680306.html



RAW VIDEO: Rafferty visits McClintic 05/12/09

http://www.lfpress.com/news/london/raffertytrial/2012/04/25/19679806.html

The second video, after he lifts her a couple times, she tries and could not lift him. He is physically stronger than her. If I am to believe that he did not know Tori was abducted until later, then he absolutely could have done something about it when he found out. He was strong enough that he could have restrained her and helped Tori. In fact, he could have knocked TLM unconscious if necessary (and to save a child, I would have applauded him for that, JMO).
He did nothing.
Not believing it.

JMO.
Not believing the 'innocent dupe' theory at all.

myzzy
04-26-2012, 07:14 AM
i believe my check is $57 a month for my daughter based on my family's income. i have a hard time believing that she would have gotten almost 6k from the government monthly, that's insane.

from the videos in the detention centre i saw them cracking each others backs, and i felt the affection was one sided and placentae but expected from TLM considering where she is

~n/t~
04-26-2012, 07:16 AM
The second video, after he lifts her a couple times, she tries and could not lift him. He is physically stronger than her. If I am to believe that he did not know Tori was abducted until later, then he absolutely could have done something about it when he found out. He was strong enough that he could have restrained her and helped Tori. In fact, he could have knocked TLM unconscious if necessary (and to save a child, I would have applauded him for that, JMO).
He did nothing.
Not believing it.

JMO.
Not believing the 'innocent dupe' theory at all.

Hope the jury is thinking the same way. I think it's ironic that his defenders speculated that he may have been afraid of the hammer weilding madwoman and in this video he's flexing his biceps and clearly showing how much stronger he is than the convicted child killer. Strong enough to pick up those 100 lb boulders to throw on Tori's little body. :(

Thinkzerz
04-26-2012, 07:30 AM
Does anyone wonder if Derstine is going to provide a different scenario when defence gets their turn? Maybe Derstine just said a small chunk of what (happened) to TLM. As i doubt he wanted to say all of the scenario to her for the jury to see her reaction and not believe the whole scenario that he comes out with in closing argument. Just wondering because the story that MR just walked away isn't working for me. JMO

BorgQueen
04-26-2012, 07:33 AM
Hope the jury is thinking the same way. I think it's ironic that his defenders speculated that he may have been afraid of the hammer weilding madwoman and in this video he's flexing his biceps and clearly showing how much stronger he is than the convicted child killer. Strong enough to pick up those 100 lb boulders to throw on Tori's little body. :(

Indeed. This is NOT a man that was afraid of her. He may not have been interested the way she was (which is obvious between these videos, and that 'date' video), but he was absolutely NOT afraid of her.

In the first one, he appears to be poking at her. She bats his arms away, seemingly annoyed. Didn't she assault her mother because her mother poked at her? Why would somebody who is so afraid of the woman do something annoying that would provoke her? Her fist could have went flying across the table at any time.

Not afraid at all. Not an innocent dupe. Could have saved Tori at ANY TIME after finding out the reason she was in his car, definitely strong enough. Not believing that story at all.

JMO.

SFB73
04-26-2012, 07:34 AM
i believe my check is $57 a month for my daughter based on my family's income. i have a hard time believing that she would have gotten almost 6k from the government monthly, that's insane.

from the videos in the detention centre i saw them cracking each others backs, and i felt the affection was one sided and placentae but expected from TLM considering where she is


I don't think I've ever seen a cheque from the government for any child benefit.... But "if" they are handing out 6000 a month no wonder you see questionable mothers with 4 or 5 kids, it becomes an easy way to earn a guaranteed monthly pay cheque, tax free as well! I'm self employed and 6000 wouldn't cut it for me a month in my current situation but if I packed in my business and only had mortgage and bills I'd have a good little amount left over every month!

I'm all for helping those down on their luck or in hard times, but the system here in Canada sometimes makes things too easy.

Alison
04-26-2012, 07:39 AM
Craziladi and Jezebel, sorry yesterday I did totally have a brain fart. I was using my CTB to calculate and I get $700 for both kids (I get so much as I am a student a the moment). So you can get about $350/per child depending on your income. Sorry everyone for the misinformation :)

BorgQueen
04-26-2012, 07:46 AM
Craziladi and Jezebel, sorry yesterday I did totally have a brain fart. I was using my CTB to calculate and I get $700 for both kids (I get so much as I am a student a the moment). So you can get about $350/per child depending on your income. Sorry everyone for the misinformation :)

That is much better :)
I get about $376 for my child for CTB. The UCCB is $100, but that ends this year due to my child's age.

ETA: I get less than $500 from OW, monthly.

tmhco
04-26-2012, 07:51 AM
Does anyone wonder if Derstine is going to provide a different scenario when defence gets their turn? Maybe Derstine just said a small chunk of what (happened) to TLM. As i doubt he wanted to say all of the scenario to her for the jury to see her reaction and not believe the whole scenario that he comes out with in closing argument. Just wondering because the story that MR just walked away isn't working for me. JMO

I think the defence thought they could break TLM and get her to lose it on the stand. They wanted to show the jury the out of contol beast who was capable of instilling fear in even grown men. By all accounts she seemed to hold her own. If they change the story now, I think the jury will be even less inclined to believe them. Who knows? I have seen stranger things happen. JMO

Wondergirl
04-26-2012, 08:31 AM
Good-morning. Thank-you to those standing watch in the pursuit of Justice for Tori. :(

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=21858&stc=1&d=1335443465

Confusedashell
04-26-2012, 08:31 AM
Indeed. This is NOT a man that was afraid of her. He may not have been interested the way she was (which is obvious between these videos, and that 'date' video), but he was absolutely NOT afraid of her.

In the first one, he appears to be poking at her. She bats his arms away, seemingly annoyed. Didn't she assault her mother because her mother poked at her? Why would somebody who is so afraid of the woman do something annoying that would provoke her? Her fist could have went flying across the table at any time.

Not afraid at all. Not an innocent dupe. Could have saved Tori at ANY TIME after finding out the reason she was in his car, definitely strong enough. Not believing that story at all.

JMO.
AGREED but that being said. If he did indeed rape that little girl (god bless her heart) why is TLM still so smitten with him. Personally I wouldn't want anything to do with him and she had her out by being in detention she didn't need to see him. She could have said she isn't allowed visitors. IMO

~n/t~
04-26-2012, 08:38 AM
Is the defense starting today?

~n/t~
04-26-2012, 08:41 AM
AGREED but that being said. If he did indeed rape that little girl (god bless her heart) why is TLM still so smitten with him. Personally I wouldn't want anything to do with him and she had her out by being in detention she didn't need to see him. She could have said she isn't allowed visitors. IMO

I know you didn't address me in your post but I believe it is because they are two peas in a pod.

Both psychopaths, imo

Jezbel
04-26-2012, 08:45 AM
Craziladi and Jezebel, sorry yesterday I did totally have a brain fart. I was using my CTB to calculate and I get $700 for both kids (I get so much as I am a student a the moment). So you can get about $350/per child depending on your income. Sorry everyone for the misinformation :)

No worries and thanks, I thought maybe I was missing out on something lol

crazyladi
04-26-2012, 08:47 AM
Anyone that could be as calm as those two were after the murder are complete psychopaths. This is how sick people behave.

Jezbel
04-26-2012, 08:50 AM
I think I read yesterday the crown had one more witness and will do a recap of surveillance and close...... Do you think the witness will be an officer doing the surveillance recap or maybe the crown is saving the best witness for last?

~n/t~
04-26-2012, 08:55 AM
I think I read yesterday the crown had one more witness and will do a recap of surveillance and close...... Do you think the witness will be an officer doing the surveillance recap or maybe the crown is saving the best witness for last?

Good question. I'm just wondering if the defense will start immediately or will they request a long weekend break before they start. Derstine already got a sick day so he should get no other free days. LOL

nobodyzgirl
04-26-2012, 09:00 AM
Hope the jury is thinking the same way. I think it's ironic that his defenders speculated that he may have been afraid of the hammer weilding madwoman and in this video he's flexing his biceps and clearly showing how much stronger he is than the convicted child killer. Strong enough to pick up those 100 lb boulders to throw on Tori's little body. :(

I don't think anyone is defending him, some are waiting to hear all evidence from both sides before deciding his guilt on the charges for which he is on trial for.

Sailor Bug
04-26-2012, 09:06 AM
list of "jobs" Rafferty said he had or is believed to have had
Can't wait to hear what he actually did do as a living

Rafferty's real job: was living off the avails of prostitution
Mr. Rafferty essentially pimped out one girlfriend and proceeded to drain her of close to $17,000

-Contractor
-Landscaper
-worked a better beef in Guelph (slaughterhouse)
-Dance Instuctor
-was said to be in college working towards a Veterinary Assistant
-Caretaker (for his Mother) & TLM's Mother
-Possible drug traffic
-As MR stated in the LE interview, he also worked at Glen Abbey.
-And I believe he was a chef, trained at George Brown.
-working under the table
-Dance Instructor
-Had his own Contracting Business
-Snow Plower
-HR-hiring person for construction sites
-worked @ Juvenile Detention Centre(London on Oxford St)
-Teacher Dance Class
-Ballroom Dance Teacher
-working in the home renovation business

~n/t~
04-26-2012, 09:14 AM
GlobalNews.ca ‏ @globaltvnews
#Rafferty trial: http://ow.ly/ax0b7 Crown expected to wrap up case with last witness, a video analyst

Bravo
04-26-2012, 09:16 AM
I know you didn't address me in your post but I believe it is because they are two peas in a pod.

Both psychopaths, imo

Agree. They both had their own sick agendas and after the crime they had a bond between them like no other. MOO

TopTop
04-26-2012, 09:34 AM
Hope the jury is thinking the same way. I think it's ironic that his defenders speculated that he may have been afraid of the hammer weilding madwoman and in this video he's flexing his biceps and clearly showing how much stronger he is than the convicted child killer. Strong enough to pick up those 100 lb boulders to throw on Tori's little body. :(

I'm not a body language expert, but the way he prances around her does not in any stretch of the imagination indicate how I would expect someone who is afraid or horrified of the person in front of him would behave. JMO!!!

~n/t~
04-26-2012, 09:37 AM
9:35
Mike Knoll: Randy Richmond's morning update:

The Crown in the first-degree murder trial of Michael Rafferty plans to finish presenting its evidence in a London courtroom Thursday.

What happens after that remains unknown.

Defence lawyer Dirk Derstine has not said yet if he plans to call any witnesses.

The Crown presented its case in a dozen chapters, with the last expected to wrap up video surveillance evidence.

It was a video from a high school surveillance camera that gave police an early break in the case and fueled public interest.

The tape showed eight-year-old Victoria Stafford walking home after school with an unknown woman on April 8, 2009.

The woman, Terri-Lynne McClintic, confessed in May 2009 to the abduction and later pleaded guilty to first-degree murder.

Her testimony formed the foundation of the case against Rafferty, 31, who has pleaded not guilty to first-degree murder, kidnapping and sexual assault causing bodily harm.

http://www.lfpress.com/news/london/raffertytrial/2012/04/26/19681511.html

Jezbel
04-26-2012, 09:41 AM
Good question. I'm just wondering if the defense will start immediately or will they request a long weekend break before they start. Derstine already got a sick day so he should get no other free days. LOL

I think it will depend on the time the crown finishes at, maybe if they finish around lunch time, the defense will start in the afternoon?

I agree no more free days lol, I hope they don't take an extra long weekend again.

Sailor Bug
04-26-2012, 09:42 AM
AM980 testimony resumes at 10 a.m. with the Crown expecting to wrap its case by the end of today

VIDEO: jury sees Rafferty visiting Terri-Lynne McClintic at detention centre, weeks after Tori Stafford murder http://bit.ly/Jsa1vy

VIDEO) Jurors see video of Rafferty visiting McClintic at youth detention centre at his first degree murder trial. http://bit.ly/JSn4Kq

Sailor Bug
04-26-2012, 09:47 AM
were you guys given the text messages that were shown as evidence? Was the jury able to see the actual messages that went between Rafferty and MC?

Mike Knoll: @guest - no. just the time and date of the messages -- not the content


Can Rafferty be convicted of a lesser charge such as an accessory if the jury finds him not guilty of 1st degree murder?

Mike Knoll: @D - this depends on the judge's instructions to the jury previous to deliberations. It varies from trial to trial.

matou
04-26-2012, 09:48 AM
The Crown in the first-degree murder trial of Ontario schoolgirl Victoria (Tori) Stafford is expected to wrap up its case against 31-year-old Michael Rafferty on Thursday.The high-profile trial, which has heard from dozens of witnesses, is in its eighth week since starting on March 6.


http://www.vancouversun.com/touch/news/story.html?id=6522601

matou
04-26-2012, 09:49 AM
The last witness the Crown will call is related to video surveillance, Crown Attorney Kevin Gowdey told Ontario Superior Justice Thomas Heeney and the 12-member jury.
"The end is near in terms of the Crown's case," he said at the end of the day Wednesday.


http://www.vancouversun.com/touch/news/story.html?id=6522601

Kamille
04-26-2012, 09:50 AM
I don't understand how, in the Canadian Criminal Justice System, that the defence does not have to provide any discovery or witness lists to the Crown prior to the day they take over their presentation. How is it right that the Crown has no idea what is going to be presented and no opportunity to investigate and interview any witnesses the defence may call as to their credibility or expertise? And they just have to "wing it" with their cross? This does not seem like a fair system in determining a person's innocence or guilt to me.

MOO

matou
04-26-2012, 09:50 AM
It's unclear if the defence will call any evidence, or whether Rafferty himself will testify.

http://www.vancouversun.com/touch/news/story.html?id=6522601

~n/t~
04-26-2012, 09:51 AM
9:50
Mike Knoll: Interesting tidbit from colleague Chip Martin - he says that if Rafferty is going to be called to testify, it is required that he testify first, before any other defence witnesses. So we will know soon if Rafferty is going to testify.

bbm

~n/t~
04-26-2012, 09:54 AM
I don't understand how, in the Canadian Criminal Justice System, that the defence does not have to provide any discovery or witness lists to the Crown prior to the day they take over their presentation. How is it right that the Crown has no idea what is going to be presented and no opportunity to investigate and interview any witnesses the defence may call as to their credibility or expertise? And they just have to "wing it" with their cross? This does not seem like a fair system in determining a person's innocence or guilt to me.

MOO

Like I stated in a previous post. The criminals have all the rights. The victims, sadly have none. IMO

~n/t~
04-26-2012, 09:55 AM
9:53
Mike Knoll: @dustin - yes, sir.
9:53
Comment From dustin
Excuse me sir, Will the legal reason be made public once the jury has been sequestered?
9:52
Mike Knoll: @Lev - yes
9:51
Comment From lev
is there a legal reason that the content of the texts has not been disclosed to the jury?
9:51
Mike Knoll: @Carol - he'll still answer questions but he's not doing formal noon pressers anymore.
9:51
Comment From Carol
Is Rodney Stafford not speaking to the media anymore?


Wow so they do have the contents of the texts but they can't be released. I bet the defense objected.

LilyMacBloom
04-26-2012, 09:55 AM
I rewatched the videos this morning and two things jumped out at me.

Seems to me in the May 12 video MTR is "cockier" than he was on his first visit.

You would think, if you were a concerned and caring boyfriend, that when your gfriend entered the room you would stand up and go to her to give her a hug. She seemed to initiate all the affection.

As for the head petting, stroking, that's what I used to do with my daughter when she would lay in bed sick, although I always thought I was a little gentler than he appeared to be.

As an aside, she certainly has a distinguishable gait to the way she walks.

MHO

Sailor Bug
04-26-2012, 09:56 AM
Lmao at Rafferty is going to be called to testify

I hope he does...but I just don't believe he will

~n/t~
04-26-2012, 09:58 AM
9:58
Mike Knoll: @zack - no they won't see it in deliberations. Once both sides have wrapped their cases, no more evidence will be submitted.
9:57
Comment From zack
hi mike i would think the content of messages would plan an important role like maybe a confession will the jury see this content in deliberation?
9:57
Mike Knoll: @Debra - no chance.
9:57
Comment From Debra
Is it possible that Rafferty might take the stand today?
9:57
Mike Knoll: @Fergus - so he can't base his testimony on what the other defence witnesses say.

~n/t~
04-26-2012, 10:03 AM
0:01
Mike Knoll: @mary - yes.
10:00
Comment From mary
will the publication ban be fully lifted from TLM's case after the verdict for Rafferty is out?
10:00
Mike Knoll: @guest - no
10:00
Comment From Guest
Will the public see the content of the text messages?




Argh! I want to see those text messages!

Sailor Bug
04-26-2012, 10:06 AM
RaffertyLFP: Trial resuming jury still out

Sailor Bug
04-26-2012, 10:07 AM
I hope there will be no problems from the two men who tried or took pictures in court yesterday.

Last nights sleep was restless for me with worry

~n/t~
04-26-2012, 10:09 AM
I hope there will be no problems from the two men who tried or took pictures in court yesterday.

Last nights sleep was restless for me with worry

Oh dear. I missed that. What happened? Yikes!

antiquegirl
04-26-2012, 10:12 AM
AGREED but that being said. If he did indeed rape that little girl (god bless her heart) why is TLM still so smitten with him. Personally I wouldn't want anything to do with him and she had her out by being in detention she didn't need to see him. She could have said she isn't allowed visitors. IMO

(BBM)

Not only that, but she specifically requested that he be allowed phone contact and visitors' privileges. This took paperwork and time. Normally, it was only family that would be permitted. I wonder why it took MTR 11 days after the approval to actually go visit her. Guess he was just too busy.

JMO

AM980.ca‏@AM980_Court
Raferty approved for visits on April 27th.


AM980.ca‏@AM980_Court
Usually, only family members are approved.

AM980.ca‏@AM980_Court
McClintic approved list included only her mother, her aunt and Michael Rafferty. Rafferty got special approval.

London Free Press‏@RaffertyLFP
Cushing-Mitchener said Rafferty was allowed to be a contact because her mother was gravely ill and Rafferty was "family friend"

Jezbel
04-26-2012, 10:13 AM
I hope there will be no problems from the two men who tried or took pictures in court yesterday.

Last nights sleep was restless for me with worry

Weird, the story isn't on the 104.7 Heart FM page any longer?????

~n/t~
04-26-2012, 10:14 AM
Busy with his job.

Busy with covering up his crime.

IMO

Sailor Bug
04-26-2012, 10:15 AM
All I heard was that the judge had the two men stand up in court and identify themselves to the jury.

The judge told security to follow them out to their car to get their phones and that the picture from the one man must be deleted

I was frantic that perhaps a mistrial may be an option because of this.

Whomever they are they should be damn ashamed for their behavior jmo

Sailor Bug
04-26-2012, 10:16 AM
The jury is coming in to the courtroom.

RaffertyLFP: Jury in The first witness is Special Constable Gerald Lanna a forensic video analyst His is Crown's final witness

The crown's final witness is Gerald Lanna.

Sailor Bug
04-26-2012, 10:18 AM
RaffertyLFP: Lanna is an OPP civilian employee based in Orilla with certification as a forensic video analyst There are only 32 in the world

Lanna is with the OPP. He's special constable, but also a civilian. He's a forensic video anaylst.

He's been with the OPP since 2001. Going over his credentials, as the crown will be asking him for opinion evidence.

RaffertyLFP: Lanna said he took six years of training and has testified in 26 trials

~n/t~
04-26-2012, 10:19 AM
RaffertyLFP: Lanna is an OPP civilian employee based in Orilla with certification as a forensic video analyst There are only 32 in the world

Lanna is with the OPP. He's special constable, but also a civilian. He's a forensic video anaylst.

He's been with the OPP since 2001. Going over his credentials, as the crown will be asking him for opinion evidence.

RaffertyLFP: Lanna said he took six years of training and has testified in 26 trials

Wow...impressive on 32 in the world!

Sailor Bug
04-26-2012, 10:20 AM
He's one of 33 people with his qualifications world wide.

Police would give Lanna hard drives, for him to look at video footage of suspects.

~n/t~
04-26-2012, 10:20 AM
All I heard was that the judge had the two men stand up in court and identify themselves to the jury.

The judge told security to follow them out to their car to get their phones and that the picture from the one man must be deleted

I was frantic that perhaps a mistrial may be an option because of this.

Whomever they are they should be damn ashamed for their behavior jmo

Me thinks his defenders are getting desperate, moo

TopTop
04-26-2012, 10:21 AM
Busy with his job.

Busy with covering up his crime.

IMO

Busy juggling all those women! JMO

~n/t~
04-26-2012, 10:23 AM
Busy juggling all those women! JMO

Yeah..that's what I meant when I said his job. Maybe even 2 jobs. ;)

Sailor Bug
04-26-2012, 10:24 AM
Before being hired by the OPP, he was with York Regional Police. Also in video anaylsis.

LoyalSleuth
04-26-2012, 10:25 AM
Could this video expert have an image of sweet little Tori in his car? Maybe he is able to do that... Omg.. poor thing, but what an impact/image that would be to close out the crowns case.

CarrieBean
04-26-2012, 10:26 AM
9:50
Mike Knoll: Interesting tidbit from colleague Chip Martin - he says that if Rafferty is going to be called to testify, it is required that he testify first, before any other defence witnesses. So we will know soon if Rafferty is going to testify.

bbm

Wow, have never heard this. I thought the defendant usually testified last. I wonder why they're required to testify first.

~n/t~
04-26-2012, 10:27 AM
Avery Moore ‏ @AveryFreeFMNews
Lanna has given evidence in 18 court proceedings, including a number of homicide trials. He is a certified forensic video analyst. #Rafferty

Avery Moore ‏ @AveryFreeFMNews
The Crown's last witness is Special Const. Gerald Lanna. He is a forensic video expert for the OPP. #Rafferty

Avery Moore ‏ @AveryFreeFMNews
Jury back in the court room. Crown expected to call a Constable who will do a review of surveillance video already seen in court. #Rafferty

Sailor Bug
04-26-2012, 10:27 AM
Heeney permits Lanna to give opinion evidence.

RaffertyLFP: Lanna was called in to analyze videos including the CASS surveillance, gas station and Home Depot videos from April 8 2009

Lanna joined the Tori investigation to examine a series of videos.

Videos were from CASS, Esso and BMO in Woodstock, Petro Canada and Home Depot in Guelph.

He also analyzed pictures of Rafferty and McClintic.

~n/t~
04-26-2012, 10:28 AM
Steven D'Souza ‏ @cbcsteve
Lanna has extensive qualifications, teaches and has testified at more than a dozen trials as a video expert #sl

Steven D'Souza ‏ @cbcsteve
Court resumes at #Rafferty trial. OPP Special Cst. Gerald Lanna, a certified forensic video analyst, is the Crown's final witness #sl

~n/t~
04-26-2012, 10:29 AM
Wow, have never heard this. I thought the defendant usually testified last. I wonder why they're required to testify first.

It was answered in a subsequent question. IMO so they're not influenced by other witness testimony.

Sailor Bug
04-26-2012, 10:31 AM
RaffertyLFP: Lanna explains that security videos are typically recorded on hard drives by different manufacturers - not easily accessible

RaffertyLFP: Lanna said videos are decoded into a universal format that investigating officers can easily use

All video is now digital, not on tape, Lanna says.

nobodyzgirl
04-26-2012, 10:32 AM
Me thinks his defenders are getting desperate, moo

I doubt they were his defenders, no doubt, they were two people who came up with the idea capturing a picture/video that they weren't supposed to have and sell it to the highest bidder. - JMO

Sailor Bug
04-26-2012, 10:33 AM
RaffertyLFP: Lanna explains that most security videos are usually compressed so they can fit on to the hard drive

Lanna explains video compression to the jury.

Lanna crumpled a piece if paper to explain video compression/quality.

RaffertyLFP: Lanna said when the videos are taken out of the compressed format they can lose quality and need analysis from an expert

Thinkzerz
04-26-2012, 10:33 AM
I doubt they were his defenders, no doubt, they were two people who came up with the idea capturing a picture/video that they weren't supposed to have and sell it to the highest bidder. - JMO

Were the two charged for taking photos?

~n/t~
04-26-2012, 10:34 AM
Steven D'Souza ‏ @cbcsteve
Lanna is going through the definition and description of forensic video analysis #sl

Sailor Bug
04-26-2012, 10:36 AM
RaffertyLFP: Lanna explains that the video will be broken down for frame-by-frame analysis

Decoding video is now being explained.

RaffertyLFP: Court will first deal with CASS videos starting with initial "vehicle of interest" Lanna asked to determine if matched Rafferty's Civic

Sailor Bug
04-26-2012, 10:40 AM
Were the two charged for taking photos?

I haven't seen any reports that they were charged with anything

Sailor Bug
04-26-2012, 10:40 AM
RaffertyLFP: Lanna said he removed color from the three videos of subject car because "colour fools the eyes

Lanna doesn't see evidence before analyzing video. Hopes to prove different issues with just video.

He only looked at Rafferty's Honda Civic in black and white to start.

~n/t~
04-26-2012, 10:42 AM
Avery Moore ‏ @AveryFreeFMNews
Lanna says he was asked to compare videos of the vehicles to decide if they were in the same "class" as #Rafferty's 2003 Honda Civic.

Avery Moore ‏ @AveryFreeFMNews
Lanna was asked to compare 3 video segments of a vehicle of interest from cameras near Tori's school. #Rafferty

Sailor Bug
04-26-2012, 10:44 AM
He first looked at the CASS videos. Looked for Rafferty's Honda Civic.

Showing a page of Lanna's report.

There are 33 images of the video, in screen captured frames.

~n/t~
04-26-2012, 10:45 AM
Steven D'Souza ‏ @cbcsteve
Lanna analyzed the CASS security video to determine if the car spotted belonged to Michael #Rafferty. Removed colour from video to help #sl

Sailor Bug
04-26-2012, 10:49 AM
RaffertyLFP: After some long technical explanations court is sees frame-by-frame video of car of interest on Fyfe Avenue April 8 captured by CASS cameras

First frame shows camera six at CASS. A vehicle of interest is on the screen.

RaffertyLFP: The second video car segment was shot at 3:05 pm, the first at 9:04 am Lanna compares the two to establish if it was same car

The same black and white technique was used on other CASS videos of vehicles of interest. "Colour fools the eye", Lanna says.

~n/t~
04-26-2012, 10:55 AM
Avery Moore ‏ @AveryFreeFMNews
A black and white version of the video taken from the high school is being shown in court, as Lanna explains the car's features.


Steven D'Souza ‏ @cbcsteve
Lanna compared 3 separate CASS videos. He's explaining now the technical process involved in analyzing the video #sl

~n/t~
04-26-2012, 10:56 AM
Avery Moore ‏ @AveryFreeFMNews
Lanna is comparing cars seen in the videos. Points out car's dark rims, tone of car to draw connections to #Rafferty's car

Sailor Bug
04-26-2012, 10:56 AM
The vehicle of interest pass through the security camera field of vision slower than other vehicles do, according to Lanna.

The decelerating vehicle goes through the area at 3:50 pm.

The suspicious vehicle was captured in the same place three separate times. Lanna calls that "fortunate".

RaffertyLFP: Lanna said he also used image overlay of three separate videos of car to do a comparison

loveisthemovement
04-26-2012, 10:56 AM
This last witness better make it a good lasting impression. We need that smoking gun type evidence to stick in the jury members heads.

Sailor Bug
04-26-2012, 11:01 AM
RaffertyLFP: Third video segment was at 3:30 pm Lanna asked to determine if vehicle was decelerating in third video.He determines yes from frame count

Lanna showing image overlays, pointing out the same vehicle passed CASS and Oliver Stephens three times on April 8th, 2009.

The frames fade from one to the next.

RaffertyLFP: Court is seeing gradual image overlay of first (9:04) and second (3:05) videos - appear to be same vehicle

~n/t~
04-26-2012, 11:01 AM
Avery Moore ‏ @AveryFreeFMNews
Lanna says he did an image overlay to compare cars. Says he was lucky car was in the same spot in all 3 videos. #Rafferty

Sailor Bug
04-26-2012, 11:03 AM
Lanna says the vehicles on the frames are the same class.

RaffertyLFP: Same result comparing 9:04 and 3:30 videos and 3:05 and 3:30 videos - all appear to be same car

RaffertyLFP: Lanna then compared three CASS videos to photos of Rafferty's car

~n/t~
04-26-2012, 11:04 AM
Avery Moore ‏ @AveryFreeFMNews
After showing image overlay Lanna says it's his opinion that the cars in the videos are of the same class (same make and model).

~n/t~
04-26-2012, 11:09 AM
Avery Moore ‏ @AveryFreeFMNews
The image overlay is a series of video frames that show the car in the same position, with 3 sightings stitched together.

Sailor Bug
04-26-2012, 11:10 AM
Images of the vehicle are captured at 9:05, 3:05, 3:30. Lanna says they are all the same class.

RaffertyLFP: Lanna said the rears spoiler can be seen on both video and still images of car

Now showing images from the CASS video, compared to images of Rafferty's seized car.

Sailor Bug
04-26-2012, 11:14 AM
Lanna says a light reflection on Rafferty's vehicle in the 9:04-05 video could indicate a spoiler.

The colour tones are similar on Rafferty's car is similar to the car in the CASS video The spoiler is also consistent from one to the other

Salem
04-26-2012, 11:15 AM
AGREED but that being said. If he did indeed rape that little girl (god bless her heart) why is TLM still so smitten with him. Personally I wouldn't want anything to do with him and she had her out by being in detention she didn't need to see him. She could have said she isn't allowed visitors. IMO

And vice versa for MR - really tells you something about these two, doesn't it?

Salem

myzzy
04-26-2012, 11:17 AM
I believe the crown has done its job and did great. I hope they start right away but i bet it wont happen till tomorrow or tues

~n/t~
04-26-2012, 11:18 AM
Avery Moore ‏ @AveryFreeFMNews
Lanna says the front end of #Rafferty's car and the cars in the videos are similar. Front headlights could be comparable as well.


Avery Moore ‏ @AveryFreeFMNews
Lanna says he can say the spoiler on the back of #Rafferty's car is similar to the cars seen in the surveillance videos.

Avery Moore ‏ @AveryFreeFMNews
Lanna says he can't compare the tone of the vehicle in the video with #Rafferty's because the sunlight is different in the images.

CarrieBean
04-26-2012, 11:18 AM
It was answered in a subsequent question. IMO so they're not influenced by other witness testimony.

Was it said if he could be recalled later on?

Sailor Bug
04-26-2012, 11:20 AM
The next page shows Rafferty's car, and compares the front end to the suspect vehicle.

Door handles on the vehicles are not comparable in some CASS images. But, in one frame, some shadows may be caused by handles

The air intake on the hood can not be compared to the CASS video car, due to distance.

RaffertyLFP: Lanna said the front hood and headlight area of the video images of car match up with the still photo of Rafferty's car

~n/t~
04-26-2012, 11:22 AM
Was it said if he could be recalled later on?

That question wasn't asked.

tygomuk
04-26-2012, 11:24 AM
Hmm wondering at this point will the defence present or rest? Would it be possible for defence to make an opening statement (outlining their theory) then rest?

Sailor Bug
04-26-2012, 11:26 AM
The vehicle in the CASS video appears to have dark rims in the 9:04 shot, but it's not certain.

Lannan com pated colours/tones of other vehicles to suspect car.

Lannan says the vehicle captured on the CASS camera is similar to Rafferty's, with no major differences.

Rafferty's vehicle can not be excluded as being the one on the CASS video.

On break for 20 minutes.

Mike Knoll: court now on 20 minute recess

maxfactor
04-26-2012, 11:44 AM
Wasn't the cellphone Chapter supposed to include his laptop? Or is that still to come?

Macright
04-26-2012, 11:45 AM
The vehicle of interest pass through the security camera field of vision slower than other vehicles do, according to Lanna.

The decelerating vehicle goes through the area at 3:50 pm.

The suspicious vehicle was captured in the same place three separate times. Lanna calls that "fortunate".

RaffertyLFP: Lanna said he also used image overlay of three separate videos of car to do a comparison



just curious about the 3:50 pm...is this the same day April 8th...why would MR's car be still around that area or is this a different video that it was caught on..

Sailor Bug
04-26-2012, 11:45 AM
Rafferty was circling like a vulture attacks weak prey...lil Tori didn't have a chance jmo

The vehicle of interest pass through the security camera field of vision slower than other vehicles do, according to Lanna.

The suspicious vehicle was captured in the same place three separate times
the same vehicle passed CASS and Oliver Stephens three times on April 8th, 2009.

crystalsleuth
04-26-2012, 11:48 AM
Wasn't the cellphone Chapter supposed to include his laptop? Or is that still to come?

JMO, but I thought the laptop was JW's.

~n/t~
04-26-2012, 11:48 AM
Avery Moore ‏ @AveryFreeFMNews
Court takes morning recess. 20 minutes.

Avery Moore ‏ @AveryFreeFMNews Reply Retweet Favorite · Open
Lanna says there are no features of the car in the videos that could exclude #Rafferty's car as the vehicle travelling by Tori's school.



Steven D'Souza ‏ @cbcsteve
Lanna concluded he could not find any characteristics that would exclude #Rafferty's car. Translated: It was his car in security video #sl

Sailor Bug
04-26-2012, 11:49 AM
just curious about the 3:50 pm...is this the same day April 8th...why would MR's car be still around that area or is this a different video that it was caught on..

same day

Jezbel
04-26-2012, 11:49 AM
just curious about the 3:50 pm...is this the same day April 8th...why would MR's car be still around that area or is this a different video that it was caught on..

I think 3.50 pm was a typo, supposed to be 3.30pm

~n/t~
04-26-2012, 11:49 AM
11:48
Mike Knoll: @bob - a car that was almost certainly Rafferty's was seen near the school earlier in the day.
11:48
Comment From Bob
Did I read your Tweet correctly that Rafferty's car was filmed near Tori's school the morning of her abduction?

~n/t~
04-26-2012, 11:50 AM
11:50
Mike Knoll: @noname - yes, from time to time lawyers object.
11:50
Comment From noname
Mike, is the court case similar to TV where the opposing lawyers can call objection to questions and Judge makes a decision whether it is dismissed or sustained? Or do all objections require the jury to leave for legal arguments?

~n/t~
04-26-2012, 11:51 AM
11:50
Mike Knoll: @guest - I assume we'll send our sketch artist the day of the verdict. Also, depends who the defence calls as witnesses.
11:50
Comment From Guest
Will there be any more court sketches?

Sailor Bug
04-26-2012, 11:53 AM
What is Mr. Rafferty doing today while this testimony is going on

He has papers in his hands. But paying close attention.

Sailor Bug
04-26-2012, 11:55 AM
Final crown witness testifies
UPDATE 11:30
Lanna analysed three security videos of a car travelling on Fyfe Avenue captured by a security camera at College Avenue Secondary School (CASS) on April 8, 2009. The videos of the car taken at 9:04 a.m., 3:05 p.m. and 3:30 p.m

http://www.lfpress.com/news/london/raffertytrial/2012/04/26/19681516.html

Sailor Bug
04-26-2012, 12:01 PM
Jury returns.

RaffertyLFP: Court resuming jury entering - more testimony from Lanna

For those asking, CASS is College Avenue Secondary School in Woodstock. It's near Oliver Stephens Public School.

RaffertyLFP: Next video from Esso gas station on Norwich Ave/Parkinson RD

Sailor Bug
04-26-2012, 12:03 PM
Now looking at the footage from the Esso on Parkinson Road in Woodstock. Taken April 8th, 2009 at 4:24 pm.

RaffertyLFP: Court is now seeing video from Esso stations - shown as 25 sequential still images

Lanna says he believes the vehicle is Rafferty's, and it is Rafferty driving the car.

RaffertyLFP: Court is seen a car entering and exiting the station around 3:20 pm on April 8 2009

LoyalSleuth
04-26-2012, 12:04 PM
Could this video expert have an image of sweet little Tori in his car? Maybe he is able to do that... Omg.. poor thing, but what an impact/image that would be to close out the crowns case.

I have my fingers crossed this will be the last thing the jury see's from the crown...

Macright
04-26-2012, 12:04 PM
were you guys given the text messages that were shown as evidence? Was the jury able to see the actual messages that went between Rafferty and MC?

Mike Knoll: @guest - no. just the time and date of the messages -- not the content


Can Rafferty be convicted of a lesser charge such as an accessory if the jury finds him not guilty of 1st degree murder?

Mike Knoll: @D - this depends on the judge's instructions to the jury previous to deliberations. It varies from trial to trial.



I take the above tweet to mean that the crown does in fact have copies of the actual text that MR sent..I thought it had been posted on here from someone who worked for a large carrier that the carrier does not have on file the actual text just #'s and time etc. that is interesting to know that nothing is private anymore... JMO

~n/t~
04-26-2012, 12:05 PM
Avery Moore ‏ @AveryFreeFMNews
Lanna says he was asked to look at a surveillance video from a Woodstock ESSO and compare a vehicle in it to #Rafferty's and CASS cars.

LoyalSleuth
04-26-2012, 12:08 PM
I take the above tweet to mean that the crown does in fact have copies of the actual text that MR sent..I thought it had been posted on here from someone who worked for a large carrier that the carrier does not have on file the actual text just #'s and time etc. that is interesting to know that nothing is private anymore... JMO

carriers do have access to content of text / sms messages sent through our network. I work at one of the big canadian 3 providers... However - BBM messages are stored with RIM, and we are not able to access them.

Sailor Bug
04-26-2012, 12:09 PM
RaffertyLFP: Lanna did a color analysis of the image of the car and enhanced the blue tint to match it to Rafferty's car

Lanna says the car on the Esso video and Rafferty's are a similar colour.

Lanna comparison goes as far as noting light reflection from the grill on Rafferty's car.

RaffertyLFP: Lanna matched up the features of the car in video and Rafferty's car and matched white dashboard hood scoop, grill lower front spoiler etc

~n/t~
04-26-2012, 12:11 PM
Avery Moore ‏ @AveryFreeFMNews
The car in the ESSO video appears black, Lanna used Photoshop to draw out the blue to compare it to #Rafferty's blue Civic.

~n/t~
04-26-2012, 12:11 PM
RaffertyLFP: Lanna matched up the features of the car in video and Rafferty's car and matched white dashboard hood scoop, grill lower front spoiler etc [via Twitter]


RaffertyLFP: Lanna did a color analysis of the image of the car and enhanced the blue tint to match it to Rafferty's car [via Twitter]

Sailor Bug
04-26-2012, 12:14 PM
The door handles and mirrors are also similar.

RaffertyLFP: Lanna said some of the feature on the vehicle in Esso video such as the white dashboard indicate a unique identification of Rafferty's car

Wondergirl
04-26-2012, 12:16 PM
Hmm wondering at this point will the defence present or rest? Would it be possible for defence to make an opening statement (outlining their theory) then rest?


Possible. I think he will at least play a Necro song or two.

Oh, and I think Rafferty is just itching to get on the stand and talk.

JMO

Sailor Bug
04-26-2012, 12:17 PM
RaffertyLFP: Altogether there were 12 areas of the car in the Esso video that matched Rafferty's car.

Multiple images of clothing in the CASS video match up with the clothing of the person driving the car in the Esso video.

The 2003 Honda Civic was not manufactured with a hood scoop/air intake.

It's not a Honda option, or accessory. The trunk spoiler is similar to a product they have, but not as an option.

Sailor Bug
04-26-2012, 12:22 PM
RaffertyLFP: Lanna checked with Honda The hood scoop not standard or even an option"The hood scoop on vehicle is definitely a unique characteristic"

Lanna says the hood scoop in unique, and the spoiler may be as well.

RaffertyLFP: He said the hood scoop, white dashboard dirt pattern all unique to Rafferty's Civic "To me, I would have to say that that's our vehicle

"I would have to say that that's our vehicle" Lanna says.

~n/t~
04-26-2012, 12:23 PM
Avery Moore ‏ @AveryFreeFMNews
Lanna says a letter from Honda says the hood piece on #Rafferty's car is not a Honda piece, is a very unique characteristic of his car.

crazyladi
04-26-2012, 12:25 PM
I think for sure the defence will be saying he didnt know the girl was kidnapped he never raped her (I think that this is for sure what they are going to argue so MTR isnt charge and listed as a sexual offender) and that he wasnt there when she was alone with Tori and he came back and she was dead. He just helped out because he was terrified for his life. The videos after the fact he will just say that he was afraid he would be charged if she talked because TLM is vindictive and evil and he was playing nice because he didnt want to be charged for something he had nothing at all to do with.

Necro corrupted TLM mind and she acted out in rage and poor little MTR just sat there crying for his mommy to come save him for this horrific women.


NOT!!!!!!

The jury is not stupid.

The only thing the jury is going to have trouble with is the rape. They will either agree that the pants off means rape as well as the mixed DNA but there is nothing else. So to me that is the only thing I worry about. The rest should be in the bag and there is no way the defence can turn this around in his favour. JMO.

The evidence spoke.

matou
04-26-2012, 12:25 PM
Possible. I think he will at least play a Necro song or two.

Oh, and I think Rafferty is just itching to get on the stand and talk.

JMO

and don't forget the crying. JMO

Sailor Bug
04-26-2012, 12:25 PM
RaffertyLFP: Lanna now moves to CASS video of car entering and exiting nursing home parking lot across street

Lanna was asked to review a video of a vehicle pulling into the Caressent Care Retirement Home near Oliver Stephens.

RaffertyLFP: Lanna says the image is a car but it is too small for positive identification

There's not enough information, frames to make an informed judgement though.

~n/t~
04-26-2012, 12:26 PM
Avery Moore ‏ @AveryFreeFMNews
Lanna says in his opinion the car in the ESSO video is #Rafferty's car because of unique markings.

~n/t~
04-26-2012, 12:27 PM
Avery Moore ‏ @AveryFreeFMNews
Lanna says it's not possible to match the car in that video to a specific car. It's too far away from the camera. Can see dark vehicle tho.

Avery Moore ‏ @AveryFreeFMNews
Lanna now moves on to video from the high school looking towards the retirement home where McClintic said #Rafferty picked her and Tori up.

LilyMacBloom
04-26-2012, 12:29 PM
Possible. I think he will at least play a Necro song or two.

Oh, and I think Rafferty is just itching to get on the stand and talk.

JMO



For some unknown reason I think he wants to have his say too, prob his lawyer has advised not to though. I can't imagine there's anything MTR could possibly say other than his regrets.
MHO

Sailor Bug
04-26-2012, 12:29 PM
RaffertyLFP: Moving on to video from Home Depot in Guelph

He also reviewed the Guelph Home Depot external camera footage from April 8th.

RaffertyLFP: Court is seeing a car move through Home Depot parking lot - various matches with photo of Rafferty car including dark rims spoiler dashboard

Vehicle on Home Depot video has dark rims and a spoiler, just like Rafferty's car,

There's also an indication of a hood scoop on the Home Depot video.

matou
04-26-2012, 12:35 PM
Ok we know it's his car.....rolling eyes. JMO

LoyalSleuth
04-26-2012, 12:35 PM
I think for sure the defence will be saying he didnt know the girl was kidnapped he never raped her (I think that this is for sure what they are going to argue so MTR isnt charge and listed as a sexual offender) and that he wasnt there when she was alone with Tori and he came back and she was dead. He just helped out because he was terrified for his life. The videos after the fact he will just say that he was afraid he would be charged if she talked because TLM is vindictive and evil and he was playing nice because he didnt want to be charged for something he had nothing at all to do with.

Necro corrupted TLM mind and she acted out in rage and poor little MTR just sat there crying for his mommy to come save him for this horrific women.


NOT!!!!!!

The jury is not stupid.

The only thing the jury is going to have trouble with is the rape. They will either agree that the pants off means rape as well as the mixed DNA but there is nothing else. So to me that is the only thing I worry about. The rest should be in the bag and there is no way the defence can turn this around in his favour. JMO.

The evidence spoke.

Maybe then he will not be put into Protective Custody and he get some good'ole Jail Justice! IMO

antiquegirl
04-26-2012, 12:38 PM
JMO, but I thought the laptop was JW's.

I don't think so, CS. Here is a picture of the laptop sitting on the passenger seat of MTR's car the day it was seized.

http://storage.canoe.ca/v1/dynamic_resize/?src=http://www.lfpress.com/news/london/raffertytrial/2012/04/05/Raffertyvehicle17.jpg&size=640x480&quality=90

Even if MTR wiped the contents sometime after the abduction, there should have been some data on here. The fact that the Crown did not bring up this laptop during their turn indicates to me that nothing incriminating was found on it. I have to wonder if the defence will bring anything into evidence pertaining to it, but somehow doubt it.

JMO

Sailor Bug
04-26-2012, 12:38 PM
Lanna says Rafferty's Honda Civic can't be excluded as being on the video.

Carnegie asks him about his degree if confidence, Lanna responds, "always 100%".

Moving on to Terri-Lynne McClintic's white coat.

RaffertyLFP: Now moving on to videos that all show an individual wearing white coat in various settings

RaffertyLFP: The first is March 25 showing a woman in a white coat from Galley Cinema in Woodstock - appears to be McClintic

Macright
04-26-2012, 12:38 PM
I think for sure the defence will be saying he didnt know the girl was kidnapped he never raped her (I think that this is for sure what they are going to argue so MTR isnt charge and listed as a sexual offender) and that he wasnt there when she was alone with Tori and he came back and she was dead. He just helped out because he was terrified for his life. The videos after the fact he will just say that he was afraid he would be charged if she talked because TLM is vindictive and evil and he was playing nice because he didnt want to be charged for something he had nothing at all to do with.

Necro corrupted TLM mind and she acted out in rage and poor little MTR just sat there crying for his mommy to come save him for this horrific women.


NOT!!!!!!






The jury is not stupid.

The only thing the jury is going to have trouble with is the rape. They will either agree that the pants off means rape as well as the mixed DNA but there is nothing else. So to me that is the only thing I worry about. The rest should be in the bag and there is no way the defence can turn this around in his favour. JMO.

The evidence spoke.

I agree...one way or the other he will serve a jail term..I don't think anyone whether on this site or others will dispute that...the only question is what charges...I also don't think the type of music TLM listened to corrupted her mind...that was corrupted long ago..the music only enhanced it IMO...and was in line with her evil mind...

~n/t~
04-26-2012, 12:40 PM
Avery Moore ‏ @AveryFreeFMNews
Lanna says the car in the Guelph Home Depot security video is similar to #Rafferty's car, cannot rule out Rafferty's car.

Sailor Bug
04-26-2012, 12:41 PM
She's seen wearing it at Gallery Cinemas, Foodland and on the CASS video.

RaffertyLFP: Moving on to Foodland grocery store video from April 8

Gallery Cinemas video is the best quality Lanna had in this case.

loveisthemovement
04-26-2012, 12:41 PM
If all that needs to be proven for a murder conviction is that they did it TOGETHER (the crowns point from opening statements) then I would say that one is a done deal.

MOO

Macright
04-26-2012, 12:42 PM
RaffertyLFP: Moving on to video from Home Depot in Guelph

He also reviewed the Guelph Home Depot external camera footage from April 8th.

RaffertyLFP: Court is seeing a car move through Home Depot parking lot - various matches with photo of Rafferty car including dark rims spoiler dashboard

Vehicle on Home Depot video has dark rims and a spoiler, just like Rafferty's car,

There's also an indication of a hood scoop on the Home Depot video.


all of this looks like a replay...we all know that the car in the video was MR's.... show us something else that is more convincing...JMO

Sailor Bug
04-26-2012, 12:44 PM
RaffertyLFP: Foodland video of cheese aisle shows a woman in white jacket pushing a cart

RaffertyLFP: Now shifting to CASS video from 3:36 pm - woman in white coat with Tori

Showing the CASS video of McClintic and Tori.

~n/t~
04-26-2012, 12:44 PM
Avery Moore ‏ @AveryFreeFMNews
The Crown is now asking Lanna to share the results of his comparison of McClintic's white coat in different videos.

Sailor Bug
04-26-2012, 12:47 PM
RaffertyLFP: Shifting to interior video shot of Home Depot in Guelph White coated woman at self-serve checkout

RaffertyLFP: Court is now seeing side by side comparison of white coated woman at cinema, Foodland and Home Depot

Lanna compared the coat in all of the videos. The Home Depot video provides "really good shots".

The piping, trim and colouring are all similar on the three videos.

RaffertyLFP: Lannaa said the stripes, hood and other details of the white coat all match in the three fotos, handbags also matches

Other similar areas are pointed out.

Sailor Bug
04-26-2012, 12:53 PM
RaffertyLFP: Court seeing white-coated woman in CASS video, Lanna said the video is so distant that few of the details of the coat can be seen

Now comparing four different frames from the CASS video.

In the exterior Home Depot footage, the piping on the coat isn't visible. It can't be expected to be seen, due to compression and distance.

~n/t~
04-26-2012, 12:53 PM
Avery Moore ‏ @AveryFreeFMNews
Lanna compares white coat in Home Depot, Foodland and Gallery Cinema viedos. Puts 3 stills up next to each other.

~n/t~
04-26-2012, 12:56 PM
Avery Moore ‏ @AveryFreeFMNews
In stills of the woman walking with Tori Stafford, Lanna says the white jacket is too far from camera to see coat in detail. #Rafferty

Sailor Bug
04-26-2012, 12:58 PM
RaffertyLFP: Lanna said compression of video tends to distort details - that may have erased any details on white-coated woman on CASS video

He showed a test image of an unrelated person, on the the inside and outside cameras.

RaffertyLFP: Lanna concluded there were similarities in the white coats in all four videos although less detail in CASS video

Lanna says in each of the four images, McClintic's coat, there are no dissimilarities.

We're going on lunch break until 2:20.

RaffertyLFP: Court is recessed until 2:20 pm

loveisthemovement
04-26-2012, 01:01 PM
Sorry but what is the point of this?? TLM admitted it was her!

crazyladi
04-26-2012, 01:02 PM
Sorry but what is the point of this?? TLM admitted it was her!

To prove he was with her, they were together, acted together etc. I think

crazyladi
04-26-2012, 01:02 PM
Thanks for all the tweets guys :)

LoyalSleuth
04-26-2012, 01:03 PM
Sorry but what is the point of this?? TLM admitted it was her!

I know it's frustrating. I think at this point, IMO, the jury may be getting bored (bad words I know, but couldn't find something better) I think the crown has to go with a BANG and unfortunately this is not it. IMHO.

antiquegirl
04-26-2012, 01:13 PM
There must be something here that hasn't been made public. The witness says TLM is wearing the same white jacket in the Gallery Cinema photo(s). But in the video we saw of her with MTR in the theatre, she is obviously wearing a dark hoodie. Where is this picture coming from?

JMO

http://www.lfpress.com/news/london/raffertytrial/2012/03/14/19503341.html

Sailor Bug
04-26-2012, 01:20 PM
Thanks antiquegirl...nice catch hmmm

Moving on to Terri-Lynne McClintic's white coat.

She's seen wearing it at Gallery Cinemas, Foodland and on the CASS video

RaffertyLFP: Court is now seeing side by side comparison of white coated woman at cinema, Foodland and Home Depot

RaffertyLFP: Foodland video of cheese aisle shows a woman in white jacket pushing a cart

RaffertyLFP: The first is March 25 showing a woman in a white coat from Galley Cinema in Woodstock - appears to be McClintic

fats
04-26-2012, 01:21 PM
i believe my check is $57 a month for my daughter based on my family's income. i have a hard time believing that she would have gotten almost 6k from the government monthly, that's insane.

from the videos in the detention centre i saw them cracking each others backs, and i felt the affection was one sided and placentae but expected from TLM considering where she is

I know many hard working individuals who get much less than $5700!!!! IF OUR GOVERNMENT IS HANDING OUT THAT KIND OF MONEY----our country will head for a great depression---!!! There is a real problem with social assistance if this is true?

AbbeyR
04-26-2012, 01:21 PM
Sorry but what is the point of this?? TLM admitted it was her!

If they did not show this evidence, there would no doubt be people who would repeat again and again that all the crown has to go on are 'the words of a proven liar' (TLM). I have seen this stated here many times.

This (and other) evidence shows, beyond reasonable doubt (IMO), that both TLM and MR participated in kidnapping Tori. I think the evidence clearly shows that each of them played a role (she lured, he drove, she bought the murder weapon, he paid, etc.). Each of them also had time alone with Tori and the opportunity to stop the kidnapping from taking place.

This is all that is needed to show that MR is guilty of murder.

I don't think they need to go out with a bang. The fact that the evidence is tedious can be seen as a good thing. It shows how strong the case against MR is and leaves him very little room for an alternate theory to raise doubt in the minds of the jurors. MOO

sillybilly
04-26-2012, 01:30 PM
There must be something here that hasn't been made public. The witness says TLM is wearing the same white jacket in the Gallery Cinema photo(s). But in the video we saw of her with MTR in the theatre, she is obviously wearing a dark hoodie. Where is this picture coming from?

JMO

http://www.lfpress.com/news/london/raffertytrial/2012/03/14/19503341.html

Good point AG. I wonder if one of the photos shows her getting out of the car and she removed the coat to go into the theatre.

Kamille
04-26-2012, 01:30 PM
I know it's frustrating. I think at this point, IMO, the jury may be getting bored (bad words I know, but couldn't find something better) I think the crown has to go with a BANG and unfortunately this is not it. IMHO.

LE and the Crown have been putting this case together for 3 years. It is their job to show all of the evidence that they were able to gather about the crime. And to bring in the experts who went over this evidence and verified it to be authentic. This testimony would have much more impact if the defendent's lawyer didn't, surprisingly, admit by way of suggestion in the opening days of this trial that his client was actually present during this crime. Imagine how much more impact this video information and all of the other evidence would have if they were claiming that he was nowhere near the area of the school or the HD or the crime scene.

The Crown's case was put together on the assumption that the defendent was pleading not guilty to all of the charges. They can't just take out this or any other evidence and testimony now because of Derstine's suggestion during cross just because it might bore the jury.

They want to present the case in it's entirety, without any room for doubt that it is TLM and MR on all those videos during the commission of this crime. And that TLM's direct witness testimony is lining up to a tee.

MOO

fats
04-26-2012, 01:32 PM
I rewatched the videos this morning and two things jumped out at me.

Seems to me in the May 12 video MTR is "cockier" than he was on his first visit.

You would think, if you were a concerned and caring boyfriend, that when your gfriend entered the room you would stand up and go to her to give her a hug. She seemed to initiate all the affection.

As for the head petting, stroking, that's what I used to do with my daughter when she would lay in bed sick, although I always thought I was a little gentler than he appeared to be.

As an aside, she certainly has a distinguishable gait to the way she walks.

MHO
I noticed that difference in behaviour in MR in both videos also---was not showing warmth toward TM at all. It looked like he was toying with her in a playful yet condescending way. I noticed both have distinguished gaited. TLM toes point outward ie her legs have a natural "turn-out position from her hips so she walks toed-out. His are almost toed in as he walks and he takes short steps and seems to have lots of nervous energy (JMP--Oxy induced) Obviously since that video he has put on a lot of weight and looks 10 years older because weight gain and most likely because he has not been doing so much dancing since he's been under lock and key.....JMO

snoofer
04-26-2012, 01:35 PM
list of "jobs" Rafferty said he had or is believed to have had
Can't wait to hear what he actually did do as a living

Rafferty's real job: was living off the avails of prostitution
Mr. Rafferty essentially pimped out one girlfriend and proceeded to drain her of close to $17,000

-Contractor
-Landscaper
-worked a better beef in Guelph (slaughterhouse)
-Dance Instuctor
-was said to be in college working towards a Veterinary Assistant
-Caretaker (for his Mother) & TLM's Mother
-Possible drug traffic
-As MR stated in the LE interview, he also worked at Glen Abbey.
-And I believe he was a chef, trained at George Brown.
-working under the table
-Dance Instructor
-Had his own Contracting Business
-Snow Plower
-HR-hiring person for construction sites
-worked @ Juvenile Detention Centre(London on Oxford St)
-Teacher Dance Class
-Ballroom Dance Teacher
-working in the home renovation business

he did not finish high school he only got one credit his graduating year. JMO

Macright
04-26-2012, 01:35 PM
If they did not show this evidence, there would no doubt be people who would repeat again and again that all the crown has to go on are 'the words of a proven liar' (TLM). I have seen this stated here many times.

This (and other) evidence shows, beyond reasonable doubt (IMO), that both TLM and MR participated in kidnapping Tori. I think the evidence clearly shows that each of them played a role (she lured, he drove, she bought the murder weapon, he paid, etc.). Each of them also had time alone with Tori and the opportunity to stop the kidnapping from taking place.

This is all that is needed to show that MR is guilty of murder.

I don't think they need to go out with a bang. The fact that the evidence is tedious can be seen as a good thing. It shows how strong the case against MR is and leaves him very little room for an alternate theory to raise doubt in the minds of the jurors. MOO

still can't see how any of this proves that HE knew it was a kidnapping from the get go or that he was involved in the murder...yes he was with them both..yes he did drive, of that there is no doubt..did we actually see him hand the money over to TLM.. besides we have TLM's confession that it was she who actually did the deed...she didn't testify that they both swung the weapon...only her... yes we all agree that he may have helped her clean up the crime scene for reasons that haven't been mentioned to date as we have not heard from the defence..JMO and yes TLM is a liar for many reasons...that has been stated and proven on this site many times so won't go into detail again...
nice one AG on catching the coat scene at the theatre... JMO

BorgQueen
04-26-2012, 01:37 PM
I know many hard working individuals who get much less than $5700!!!! IF OUR GOVERNMENT IS HANDING OUT THAT KIND OF MONEY----our country will head for a great depression---!!! There is a real problem with social assistance if this is true?

Nobody is getting $5700/month.
They said they get $57/month. No extra zeroes. That was also for CTB, not OW.
Not many people are getting $5700/year from social assistance, even. Don't worry, people on social assistance are living in miserable poverty, unless they are doing something on the side that they aren't allowed to do (and would disqualify them for assistance if found out). We will skip dinner for 2 weeks just to buy a new pair of pants for $20 at walmart, due to massive crotch-holes in the one pair we own. THAT is the system at work.

AbbeyR
04-26-2012, 01:38 PM
still can't see how any of this proves that HE knew it was a kidnapping from the get go or that he was involved in the murder...yes he was with them both..yes he did drive of that there is no doubt..did we actually see him hand the money over to TLM.. besides we have TLM's confession that it was she who actually did the deed...she didn't testify that they both swung the weapon...only her... yes we all agree that he may have helped her clean up the crime scene for reasons that haven't been proven to date as we have not heard from the defence..JMO and yes TLM is a liar for many reasons...that has been stated and proven on this site many times so won't go into detail again...
nice one AG on catching the coat scene at the theatre... JMO

It's my understanding that according to Canadian law, if a death happens as the result of a kidnapping or sexual assault, it is first degree murder. That's why it doesn't matter who swung the hammer.

http://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/acts/C-46/page-109.html#h-78

Kamille
04-26-2012, 01:41 PM
he did not finish high school he only got one credit his graduating year. JMO

He got one credit in his grade nine year at that school. No information of any other credits at any other high schools has been found that I know of.

MOO

Allanae
04-26-2012, 01:43 PM
still can't see how any of this proves that HE knew it was a kidnapping from the get go or that he was involved in the murder...yes he was with them both..yes he did drive, of that there is no doubt..did we actually see him hand the money over to TLM.. besides we have TLM's confession that it was she who actually did the deed...she didn't testify that they both swung the weapon...only her... yes we all agree that he may have helped her clean up the crime scene for reasons that haven't been mentioned to date as we have not heard from the defence..JMO and yes TLM is a liar for many reasons...that has been stated and proven on this site many times so won't go into detail again...
nice one AG on catching the coat scene at the theatre... JMO

What 8 year old child would go along with being kidnapped without making a stink? I can not see how he could not know at some point in time that she was being held against her will. It wasn't like it was a 10 minute drive or something, it took hours. Even BA said she didn't see a child in his car, so a child being hidden in the backseat (maybe?) of a vehicle proves to me that he knew she wasn't just being babysat. I don't hide kids I am babysitting from public view in my vehicle. Maybe he didn't initially know it, but at one time he had to have known. He had ample opportunity to stop her murder if he wasn't part of the initial plan IMO.

Tahorn
04-26-2012, 01:44 PM
It's my understanding that according to Canadian law, if a death happens as the result of a kidnapping or sexual assault, it is first degree murder. That's why it doesn't matter who swung the hammer.

http://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/acts/C-46/page-109.html#h-78

I do believe that you need to be aware that you are participating in the kidnapping, sexual assult to be found guilty of 1st degree.

AbbeyR
04-26-2012, 01:54 PM
I do believe that you need to be aware that you are participating in the kidnapping, sexual assult to be found guilt of 1st degree.

Yes, as I stated earlier, I believe that is the point of all of this evidence. It shows, beyond reasonable doubt, that MR was a participant (not unwitting bystander) in Tori's kidnapping.

Conversely, there has been no evidence, as of yet, to support the idea that he thought he was babysitting a child. It is nothing more, IMO, than a preposterous hypothetical suggestion, when held up to the actual evidence in this case. MOO

fats
04-26-2012, 02:01 PM
still can't see how any of this proves that HE knew it was a kidnapping from the get go or that he was involved in the murder...yes he was with them both..yes he did drive, of that there is no doubt..did we actually see him hand the money over to TLM.. besides we have TLM's confession that it was she who actually did the deed...she didn't testify that they both swung the weapon...only her... yes we all agree that he may have helped her clean up the crime scene for reasons that haven't been mentioned to date as we have not heard from the defence..JMO and yes TLM is a liar for many reasons...that has been stated and proven on this site many times so won't go into detail again...
nice one AG on catching the coat scene at the theatre... JMO

No one can PROVE what MR knew HOWEVER his behaviour led to Torie's death---It is not reasonable to take a little girl in his car out of town and to buy drugs....I think the jury has to go on what is reasonable? And did the defense not come up with some lame suggestion that this was a "drug-debt"--so in that case he is a party to the kidnapping. (JMO--It was his idea and he used TLM as his accomplice)And for a while had her convinced to take the cover for him until she found out more about him and his numerous women and lies.

fats
04-26-2012, 02:05 PM
He got one credit in his grade nine year at that school. No information of any other credits at any other high schools has been found that I know of.

MOO

Tell me it wasn't Art Class--his interior car paint job would be a O---It seems he has trouble completing things.....and has trouble making commitments too--I would like to know more about his upbringing...

Tahorn
04-26-2012, 02:07 PM
The people below were Wrongfully Convicted for horrific crimes.

All the evidence presented by the crown also convicted them.
The media stories convicted them.
The public convicted them.

I for one will wait until I hear the entire case before I string anyone up ...

Canada's wrongful convictions
James Driskell
Anthony Hanemaayer
Donald Marshall Jr.
Simon Marshall
David Milgaard
Guy Paul Morin
William Mullins-Johnson
Romeo Phillion
Thomas Sophonow
Steven Truscott
Kyle Unger
Erin Walsh

Oldsoul2
04-26-2012, 02:22 PM
The people below were Wrongfully Convicted for horrific crimes.

All the evidence presented by the crown also convicted them.
The media stories convicted them.
The public convicted them.

I for one will wait until I hear the entire case before I string anyone up ...

Canada's wrongful convictions
James Driskell
Anthony Hanemaayer
Donald Marshall Jr.
Simon Marshall
David Milgaard
Guy Paul Morin
William Mullins-Johnson
Romeo Phillion
Thomas Sophonow
Steven Truscott
Kyle Unger
Erin Walsh


I don't know what evidence was presented in regards to these cases but at some point we have to use some form of logic along with the evidence presented to come to a conclusion. Yes, it is true that people are convicted of crimes they didn't commit but it is also true that some criminals don't get convicted of crimes they DID commit. In which case we can say the same about the defense lawyer letting these monster back out on the street to do it all over again. In this case, IMO it has provided an overwhelming amount of evidence to suggest that MR is guilty especially since it is so rare for the Crown to have a confession to go along it. IMO to suggest that there isn't enough solid evidence that MR at very least, is CAPABLE of this crime, to me simply would suggest a lack or disregard of common sense.

Macright
04-26-2012, 02:25 PM
The people below were Wrongfully Convicted for horrific crimes.

All the evidence presented by the crown also convicted them.
The media stories convicted them.
The public convicted them.

I for one will wait until I hear the entire case before I string anyone up ...

Canada's wrongful convictions
James Driskell
Anthony Hanemaayer
Donald Marshall Jr.
Simon Marshall
David Milgaard
Guy Paul Morin
William Mullins-Johnson
Romeo Phillion
Thomas Sophonow
Steven Truscott
Kyle Unger
Erin Walsh


the name ST jumped out at me..I think he was even sentenced to death at one point...I believe it was an upstanding journalist that went to bat for him...if ever there was a case of keystone cops and bumbling military police..well I don't know what is...and to think he was so young at the time..of course his father was only in the ranks where as her father was an officer... JMO

Sailor Bug
04-26-2012, 02:25 PM
RaffertyLFP: Court resuming jury coming in

Jurors returning to the courtroom.

Jezbel
04-26-2012, 02:25 PM
still can't see how any of this proves that HE knew it was a kidnapping from the get go or that he was involved in the murder...yes he was with them both..yes he did drive, of that there is no doubt..did we actually see him hand the money over to TLM.. besides we have TLM's confession that it was she who actually did the deed...she didn't testify that they both swung the weapon...only her... yes we all agree that he may have helped her clean up the crime scene for reasons that haven't been mentioned to date as we have not heard from the defence..JMO and yes TLM is a liar for many reasons...that has been stated and proven on this site many times so won't go into detail again...
nice one AG on catching the coat scene at the theatre... JMO

RBBM

May have helped her clean up the crime scene, I don't think there is anyway she would be able to carry Tori's body by herself over to the rock pile or lift some rocks that were over $100lbs on her own either, he most definitely helped 'clean up'

JMO

Sailor Bug
04-26-2012, 02:26 PM
Comment From m: ]
was there ever a statement about how many pills TLM and Rafferty would take? Or was it just empty pill bottles that were presented as evidence?


Mike Knoll: @m - "The admission involved what Rafferty said to two undercover police officers placed in police cells with him and taken with him to the Oxford County courthouse May 20, 2009.

Rafferty asked one of the officers for drugs and said he uses “Oxys,” five 80-mg pills or 11 to 12 40-mg pills a day. If he can’t get Oxycontin, he takes 20 to 25 Perocets a day.

Rafferty said several times he wanted some Oxy and added, “It’s going to be a hard few days.”

He’s been in custody since."

source: http://www.lfpress.com/news/london/raffertytrial/2012/04/05/19600266.html

Sailor Bug
04-26-2012, 02:27 PM
RaffertyLFP: Next videos focus on peacoat worn by Michael Rafferty

Carnegie asks Lanna about video footage taken April 8th, 9th, 2009 at a BMO in Woodstock.

Also, compare the peacoat he's wearing to the one seized at his home.

RaffertyLFP: The video was taken at a Bank of Montreal ABM

tygomuk
04-26-2012, 02:27 PM
Tahorn and Oldsoul2 I appreciate both of your points of view. Tahorn-you would make a much better juror than I as I still have a frontier style justice thorn in my butt from the anthony trial.

Sailor Bug
04-26-2012, 02:29 PM
RaffertyLFP: The court is seeing four stills from the ABM which appear to show Rafferty with a mugshot of Rafferty in the middle

Lanna says he does not do facial comparisons, says determining identity is a matter for the courts.

RaffertyLFP: The ABM stills were taken on April 8 Lanna said he will not focus on identifying Rafferty's face, leaving that to jury, will focus on coat

Jurors see four pictures of Rafferty from the BMO footage, wi his mug shot.

Showing the comparison between the coat on the BMO footage and the one police seized.

AbbeyR
04-26-2012, 02:29 PM
The people below were Wrongfully Convicted for horrific crimes.

All the evidence presented by the crown also convicted them.
The media stories convicted them.
The public convicted them.

I for one will wait until I hear the entire case before I string anyone up ...

Canada's wrongful convictions
James Driskell
Anthony Hanemaayer
Donald Marshall Jr.
Simon Marshall
David Milgaard
Guy Paul Morin
William Mullins-Johnson
Romeo Phillion
Thomas Sophonow
Steven Truscott
Kyle Unger
Erin Walsh

Yes, true. On the flip side, many of those high profile cases resulted in public inquiries that ultimately led to the critique and revision of the Canadian justice system. Canada is often used as a positive example in debates about legal reform in the US, for this very reason.

Your post is a reminder that many of the frustrating aspects of this case (publication bans, etc.) are measures taken to ensure that this trial is fair and to prevent wrongful convictions and lengthy appeals. :)

Oldsoul2
04-26-2012, 02:30 PM
Comment From m: ]
was there ever a statement about how many pills TLM and Rafferty would take? Or was it just empty pill bottles that were presented as evidence?


Mike Knoll: @m - "The admission involved what Rafferty said to two undercover police officers placed in police cells with him and taken with him to the Oxford County courthouse May 20, 2009.

Rafferty asked one of the officers for drugs and said he uses “Oxys,” five 80-mg pills or 11 to 12 40-mg pills a day. If he can’t get Oxycontin, he takes 20 to 25 Perocets a day.

Rafferty said several times he wanted some Oxy and added, “It’s going to be a hard few days.”

He’s been in custody since."

source: http://www.lfpress.com/news/london/raffertytrial/2012/04/05/19600266.html


Just want to mention that is a minimum $200 + a day habit or $1400 a week

Sailor Bug
04-26-2012, 02:33 PM
RaffertyLFP: The images show a dark jacket with a wide lapel and large buttons matching Raffety's coat

The coats both have a broad style lapel.

Buttons also arranged in a similar way.

Sailor Bug
04-26-2012, 02:35 PM
Lanna also analyzed Rafferty's hair. He purchased hair dye from Wal Mart after Tori went missing.

RaffertyLFP: After receipt found for hair dye, Lanna asked to analyze images to see if Rafferty had dyed his hair

He was asked to determine if the dye had been used in some of the photos.

Showing filtered images of Michael Rafferty.

~n/t~
04-26-2012, 02:40 PM
Avery Moore ‏ @AveryFreeFMNews
Jury is back after lunch. Special Const. Gerry Lanna still on the stand. Speaking about ATM cameras that caught #Rafferty's image on Apr 8.

Sailor Bug
04-26-2012, 02:43 PM
Showing comparison photos between Rafferty and others with dyed hair.

The court reporter is coughing, asks for a five minute break. Heeney grants it.

RaffertyLFP: Court is recessed for 5 minutes

matou
04-26-2012, 02:48 PM
The Crown is expected to wrap up its case against Michael Rafferty on Thursday, accused of first-degree murder in the death of 8-year-old Victoria ‘Tori’ Stafford, who was abducted on her way home from school in 2009. But what Rafferty’s defence team plans next - and whether they plan to put their client on the stand - is anyone’s guess.
Defence lawyer Dirk Derstine has not said yet if he plans to call any witnesses

http://www.edmontonsun.com/2012/04/26/will-rafferty-take-the-stand

Sailor Bug
04-26-2012, 02:52 PM
RaffertyLFP: Court resuming

Ready to resume.

RaffertyLFP: Lanna says analysis of hair highlights in fotos of Rafferty and McClintic inconclusive

fats
04-26-2012, 02:56 PM
The people below were Wrongfully Convicted for horrific crimes.

All the evidence presented by the crown also convicted them.
The media stories convicted them.
The public convicted them.

I for one will wait until I hear the entire case before I string anyone up ...

Canada's wrongful convictions
James Driskell
Anthony Hanemaayer
Donald Marshall Jr.
Simon Marshall
David Milgaard
Guy Paul Morin
William Mullins-Johnson
Romeo Phillion
Thomas Sophonow
Steven Truscott
Kyle Unger
Erin Walsh

I realize this can and has happened and that's why a fair trial is important. DNA analysis proved a lot of those people were wrongly convicted.
DNA, VIDEO and Cell phone technology are strong evidence in this case. This type of evidence being presented against MR is much stronger than what sent those to jail!

Sailor Bug
04-26-2012, 02:56 PM
The brightness levels of Rafferty's hair in his mug shot do appear heightened, according to Lanna. But "that's as far" as he can go.

RaffertyLFP: Lanna was also asked to examine images of Shaq running shoes worn by McClintic at cinema grocery store and Home Depot

He also looked at McClintic's (supposed) running shoes, and compared them to shots of McClintic wearing them.

Some markings on the shoes appear to be the same.

Sailor Bug
04-26-2012, 03:00 PM
RaffertyLFP: Six feature of the Shaq running shoes in the video match the police fotos of the shoes after they were seized

Showing photos of McClintic at the Woodstock movie theatre, highlighting the shoes. Comparing them to the ones found north of Guelph.

He says there are enough details to compare the shoes.

He can't identify some dark spots on the found shoes, that may not be on the shoes seen in March, 2009.

otto
04-26-2012, 03:01 PM
I don't understand how, in the Canadian Criminal Justice System, that the defence does not have to provide any discovery or witness lists to the Crown prior to the day they take over their presentation. How is it right that the Crown has no idea what is going to be presented and no opportunity to investigate and interview any witnesses the defence may call as to their credibility or expertise? And they just have to "wing it" with their cross? This does not seem like a fair system in determining a person's innocence or guilt to me.

MOO

It's partially true that the defence does not have to disclose a witness list. The defence must disclose a list of any expert witnesses that will testify, and an alibi witness should also be disclosed. If an alibi witness is not disclosed prior to trial, then the prosecution can request a delay during trial to research the alibi witness testimony. Additionally, the weight of the evidence given by the alibi witness may be limited if the witness is not disclosed prior to trial. The reason that the defence does not have to disclose general witnesses is to preserve balance of perceived power in light of the fact that the "little guy" is up against the vast power of the crown.

The prosecution does not have to "wing it" with expert witnesses, and with general witnesses, I can't think of anything beyond what they testify to that would be relevant (no real need to know who they are prior to trial - esp. since character assassination is not an option).

otto
04-26-2012, 03:04 PM
The people below were Wrongfully Convicted for horrific crimes.

All the evidence presented by the crown also convicted them.
The media stories convicted them.
The public convicted them.

I for one will wait until I hear the entire case before I string anyone up ...

Canada's wrongful convictions
James Driskell
Anthony Hanemaayer
Donald Marshall Jr.
Simon Marshall
David Milgaard
Guy Paul Morin
William Mullins-Johnson
Romeo Phillion
Thomas Sophonow
Steven Truscott
Kyle Unger
Erin Walsh

Guy Paul Morin was the poster guy across the country for educating investigators and prosecutors regarding the pitfalls of tunnel vision. Many things changed after the problems with that prosecution came to light.

~n/t~
04-26-2012, 03:06 PM
Avery Moore ‏ @AveryFreeFMNews
Lanna is now trying to place the blue SHAQ shoes found on a side road N of Guelph with shoes worn by McClintic in videos.


Ummm.....trying? LOL!

Sailor Bug
04-26-2012, 03:07 PM
RaffertyLFP: Lanna did similar comparison with shoes seen in Foodland video- more matches

He can't identify some dark spots on the found shoes, that may not be on the shoes seen in March, 2009.

But, he says the shoes can not be excluded as being the ones McClintic is wearing in the video.

Now comparing the shoes to the video of McClintic at Woodstock Foodland, taken April 8th, 2009.

The dark areas of the shoes are visible. There are a series of comparable areas.

BorgQueen
04-26-2012, 03:11 PM
9:53
Mike Knoll: @dustin - yes, sir.
9:53
Comment From dustin
Excuse me sir, Will the legal reason be made public once the jury has been sequestered?
9:52
Mike Knoll: @Lev - yes
9:51
Comment From lev
is there a legal reason that the content of the texts has not been disclosed to the jury?
9:51
Mike Knoll: @Carol - he'll still answer questions but he's not doing formal noon pressers anymore.
9:51
Comment From Carol
Is Rodney Stafford not speaking to the media anymore?


Wow so they do have the contents of the texts but they can't be released. I bet the defense objected.

BBM

So, if they have some text message content, and have not shown these messages, I agree that the defence objected. And in most cases, I agree that they are not necessary; however, the text content between TLM and MR, if available, should have been presented.

makes me wonder how much evidence has been held back at the objection of the defence... and how important this evidence is. *sigh*

JMO

Sailor Bug
04-26-2012, 03:12 PM
His opinion is there is enough to compare the shoes in the video to the ones found north of Guelph.

He says there are enough similarities to say they are the same type of shoe.

RaffertyLFP: Moving to Shaq shoes in Home Depot videos - same matches to police fotos of Shaq shoes also match Foodland and Gallery

The shoes are also similar to the ones McClintic is seen wearing on the Home Depot video.

robynhood
04-26-2012, 03:14 PM
....Question ..just read that the CROWN is expected to conclude their case TODAY....Does anyone know if or when the defense is expected to start their case ....it was mentioned MONDAY April 30 ...Does that mean NOTHING is happening in LONDON Court tomorrow....If so I guess they are giving the DEFENSE time to prepare and make a list of witnesses....? IMO ...wow they certain had enough time ...! this has been 3 YEARS before going to TRial .......It has been said they had 3 years to prepare as the CROWN had to disclose all there evidence ...or do I have this wroing????.anyone agree????...looking forward to others peoples views here too...robynhood

~n/t~
04-26-2012, 03:14 PM
Avery Moore ‏ @AveryFreeFMNews
Lanna says the SHAQ shoes are of the same class. Multiple comparisons made to McClintic's runners.

otto
04-26-2012, 03:14 PM
still can't see how any of this proves that HE knew it was a kidnapping from the get go or that he was involved in the murder...yes he was with them both..yes he did drive, of that there is no doubt..did we actually see him hand the money over to TLM.. besides we have TLM's confession that it was she who actually did the deed...she didn't testify that they both swung the weapon...only her... yes we all agree that he may have helped her clean up the crime scene for reasons that haven't been mentioned to date as we have not heard from the defence..JMO and yes TLM is a liar for many reasons...that has been stated and proven on this site many times so won't go into detail again...
nice one AG on catching the coat scene at the theatre... JMO

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to connect the dots ...

"The trial has seen evidence that Rafferty withdrew $80 from an ATM at a gas station next to a Home Depot in Guelph at 5:03 p.m., then McClintic entered the Home Depot minutes later and purchased a hammer and garbage bags using cash."

http://www.globaltvbc.com/canada/court+sees+video+of+raffertys+visit+to+mcclintic+a t+detention+centre/6442628076/story.html

Shasta
04-26-2012, 03:15 PM
Does anyone think the defence objected to Rodney's pressers? Can they do that?

Wondergirl
04-26-2012, 03:16 PM
The people below were Wrongfully Convicted for horrific crimes.

All the evidence presented by the crown also convicted them.
The media stories convicted them.
The public convicted them.

I for one will wait until I hear the entire case before I string anyone up ...

Canada's wrongful convictions
James Driskell
Anthony Hanemaayer
Donald Marshall Jr.
Simon Marshall
David Milgaard
Guy Paul Morin
William Mullins-Johnson
Romeo Phillion
Thomas Sophonow
Steven Truscott
Kyle Unger
Erin Walsh


To associate Rafferty's name with any of those exonerated, innocent men, is an insult to them.

JMO

SFB73
04-26-2012, 03:18 PM
Nobody is getting $5700/month.
They said they get $57/month. No extra zeroes. That was also for CTB, not OW.
Not many people are getting $5700/year from social assistance, even. Don't worry, people on social assistance are living in miserable poverty, unless they are doing something on the side that they aren't allowed to do (and would disqualify them for assistance if found out). We will skip dinner for 2 weeks just to buy a new pair of pants for $20 at walmart, due to massive crotch-holes in the one pair we own. THAT is the system at work.

Look at the positive side of things, after skipping the dinner for two weeks, you might be down a size in pants!!

Seriously, if that is the case, I really feel badly for you, I guess when you think you've go it tough, there always is someone worse off out there...

otto
04-26-2012, 03:20 PM
....Question ..just read that the CROWN is expected to conclude their case TODAY....Does anyone know if or when the defense is expected to start their case ....it was mentioned MONDAY April 30 ...Does that mean NOTHING is happening in LONDON Court tomorrow....If so I guess they are giving the DEFENSE time to prepare and make a list of witnesses....? IMO ...wow they certain had enough time ...! this has been 3 YEARS before going to TRial .......It has been said they had 3 years to prepare as the CROWN had to disclose all there evidence ...or do I have this wroing????.anyone agree????...looking forward to others peoples views here too...robynhood

The defence already has their witnesses lined up ... if they are introducing witnesses, and the crown does disclose all the evidence and witnesse prior to trial. The defence only discloses an expert witness list and sometimes an alibi witness.

Sailor Bug
04-26-2012, 03:21 PM
Lanna could not exclude the shoes on the Home Depot video as being the ones worn by McClitnic.

RaffertyLFP: Lanna was also asked to check on McClintic white Puma running shoes -checked against Gallery videos

Now comparing white Puma shoes found in McClintic's home to ones worn by Rafferty in Gallery Cinemas video.

The dark colour trim is the same on both shoes.

~n/t~
04-26-2012, 03:21 PM
Does anyone think the defence objected to Rodney's pressers? Can they do that?

Anything is possible but I think he may have realized on his own there is a lot he can't say with the gag order in place. According to a comment this morning on LFP, he still answers questions from reporters when asked.

I pray he and Tara finally get justice for Tori and the accused child killer is put away for a very long time.

BorgQueen
04-26-2012, 03:21 PM
....Question ..just read that the CROWN is expected to conclude their case TODAY....Does anyone know if or when the defense is expected to start their case ....it was mentioned MONDAY April 30 ...Does that mean NOTHING is happening in LONDON Court tomorrow....If so I guess they are giving the DEFENSE time to prepare and make a list of witnesses....? IMO ...wow they certain had enough time ...! this has been 3 YEARS before going to TRial .......It has been said they had 3 years to prepare as the CROWN had to disclose all there evidence ...or do I have this wroing????.anyone agree????...looking forward to others peoples views here too...robynhood

I do think they will resume next week. I disagree that the defence is preparing a list of witnesses. They probably already have one. What the defence will do, in my opinion, is alter their questions a bit now that they know exactly what they are working against when the crown rests its case.


JMO

~n/t~
04-26-2012, 03:21 PM
Avery Moore ‏ @AveryFreeFMNews
Crown is moving on to asking Lanna about a pair of white PUMA soes. A pair of similar PUMAs were found in McClintic's closet.

Wondergirl
04-26-2012, 03:22 PM
Crown calls 61st witness as it prepares to wrap up case against Rafferty

The Crown's case against Michael Rafferty wound down Thursday the same way it began, with a focus on video. Gerald Lanna, a forensic video analyst with Ontario Provincial Police, examined surveillance tapes that the Crown alleges help trace Rafferty's route on April 8, 2009.


http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/canada/crown-to-wrap-up-case-against-rafferty-today-with-last-witness-a-video-analyst-149039625.html

SFB73
04-26-2012, 03:23 PM
To associate Rafferty's name with any of those exonerated, innocent men, is an insult to them.

JMO

I somehow think if Rafferty is convicted, I doubt the James Lockyer's of the world will be lining up to try to get the conviction overturned!

Macright
04-26-2012, 03:24 PM
It doesn't take a rocket scientist to connect the dots ...

"The trial has seen evidence that Rafferty withdrew $80 from an ATM at a gas station next to a Home Depot in Guelph at 5:03 p.m., then McClintic entered the Home Depot minutes later and purchased a hammer and garbage bags using cash."

http://www.globaltvbc.com/canada/court+sees+video+of+raffertys+visit+to+mcclintic+a t+detention+centre/6442628076/story.html


respectfully... Otto would you be able to reword your first sentence when quoting my post...I take it to reflect on my judgement and intelligence as you used it in refence to my post and not in general.. JMO Thank you

Ardy
04-26-2012, 03:24 PM
The defence already has their witnesses lined up ... if they are introducing witnesses, and the crown does disclose all the evidence and witnesse prior to trial. The defence only discloses an expert witness list and sometimes an alibi witness.

Why would the defense not disclose their list of witnesses, since the Crown has the right to request the time to perform due diligence on them before they testify?

JMO..............

Sailor Bug
04-26-2012, 03:25 PM
The size of the shoes makes it difficult to compare minor details like stitch patterns.

RaffertyLFP: Lanna also compared Rafferty's white Puma running shoes shown in Gallery cinema video and found similarities

robynhood
04-26-2012, 03:25 PM
AveryFreeFMNews Crown is moving on to asking Lanna about a pair of white PUMA soes. A pair of similar PUMAs were found in McClintic's closet. #Rafferty...robynhood

otto
04-26-2012, 03:27 PM
respectfully... Otto would you be able to reword your first sentence when quoting my post...I take it to reflect on my judgement and intelligence.. JMO Thank you

Sorry ... didn't mean to offend ... I only meant that it seems abundantly obvious to me that MR provided the money to buy the murder weapon because he withdrew money from the ATM (a deposit he had pre-arranged with his escort friend) minutes before he drove TLM to the store to buy the murder weapon.

Wondergirl
04-26-2012, 03:27 PM
Does anyone else feel that Derstine's line of defense was blown out of the water by TLM's "new" confession in January?

Surely his line of defense all this time, was to show what a liar TLM was, because she said MTR killed Victoria.

Now, he can't try and focus on just how much of a liar TLM is and was, because, he wants the Jury to believe her "moment of truth" about who wielded the hammer on Tori.

Funny enough, the very character assassination that he has so vigorously defended and tried to prevent against for his client, will be the very thing he focuses on in the defense of his client, as he presents the character flaws of TLM.

Do you think the Jury will pick-up on that? Will they think he is grasping at straws?

JMO

Sailor Bug
04-26-2012, 03:28 PM
Also compared Rafferty's shoes to the PetroCanada camera in Guelph.

RaffertyLFP: Lanna also asked to check Puma shoes Rafferty wore in Guelph Petrocan

RaffertyLFP: Only one similarity found in PetroCan video due to angle of camera

There are no dissimilarities between the shoes, Lanna says. He called his testimony "a lot of work".

He touched on eight different areas.

otto
04-26-2012, 03:29 PM
Why would the defense not disclose their list of witnesses, since the Crown has the right to request the time to perform due diligence on them before they testify?

JMO..............

The defence has to disclose a list of expert witnesses prior to trial so that the crown can prepare for cross examination. The defence has the option of disclosing the alibi witness list, and it's in their best interest to do so, but it's not necessary.

Tahorn
04-26-2012, 03:29 PM
To associate Rafferty's name with any of those exonerated, innocent men, is an insult to them.

JMO

I am sure each of those names would want us to keep an open mind to all the evidence, including their defence.

BorgQueen
04-26-2012, 03:30 PM
Look at the positive side of things, after skipping the dinner for two weeks, you might be down a size in pants!!

Seriously, if that is the case, I really feel badly for you, I guess when you think you've go it tough, there always is someone worse off out there...

I can only hope I go down a size, or three! LOL
When eating stuff like cheap hotdogs from walmart, store brand kraft dinner, and store brand mr noodles (to save money to make sure my kid eats properly), weight tends to balloon.

But, I'm fine. This is only temporary. It can get depressing, but as you said, there is always somebody out there worse off.
When my daughter starts school, I can get a job and get off OW (which is a humiliating experience every 3-4 months, and cause for depression in itself... ). Minimum wage is better than what is received on social assistance. Looking forward to eating broccoli again :)
Always light at the end of the tunnel... and my light is green and shaped like tiny little trees (and tastes great with cheese). It also does not have any crotch holes :) (haha)
(and proudly, my daughter never wastes a single bite of her broccoli)

Macright
04-26-2012, 03:31 PM
Sorry ... didn't mean to offend ... I only meant that it seems abundantly obvious to me that MR provided the money to buy the murder weapon because he withdrew money from the ATM (a deposit he had pre-arranged with his escort friend) minutes before he drove TLM to the store to buy the murder weapon.


thank you Otto..appreciate that...I understand what you meant but it quoted my post and it was the opposite of what you posted so I took it as a reflection on my judgement.. JMO thank you again...

robynhood
04-26-2012, 03:31 PM
The defence already has their witnesses lined up ... if they are introducing witnesses, and the crown does disclose all the evidence and witnesse prior to trial. The defence only discloses an expert witness list and sometimes an alibi witness.

....I am asking because I am seriously considering driving to London ...IF Rafferty takes the stand in his defense...this case has me so deeply upset! ....Guess I will have to wait and see....AWho knows what will be happening tomorrow ....another Court day off ...as I read numerous times ...the crown should be finished today ???....very curious and I guess I am feeling anxious about this whole darn thing as I read IMO....seems like ...MAny feel the same here ????..robynhood

tygomuk
04-26-2012, 03:31 PM
As we all know the defence has no obligation to present a defence or even if they do to let the Crown know what their defence might be. They either opt in to a discovery agreement or essentially play poker with their hands. MOO

ETA: One of you will know because I cannot remember was it this trial or TLM's that proceeded without a prelim hearing?

Sailor Bug
04-26-2012, 03:33 PM
We're moving on to a new area. 10 minute break first.

When we return, we'll be watching video of all the surveillance clips we've seen so far.

RaffertyLFP: 10 minute break Court will see wrap up of surveillance videos after that Then I hope we are done

~n/t~
04-26-2012, 03:34 PM
Does anyone else feel that Derstine's line of defense was blown out of the water by TLM's "new" confession in January?

Surely his line of defense all this time, was to show what a liar TLM was, because she said MTR killed Victoria.

Now, he can't try and focus on just how much of a liar TLM is and was, because, he wants the Jury to believe her "moment of truth" about who wielded the hammer on Tori.

Funny enough, the very character assassination that he has so vigorously defended and tried to prevent against for his client, will be the very thing he focuses on in the defense of his client, as he presents the character flaws of TLM.

Do you think the Jury will pick-up on that? Will they think he is grasping at straws?

JMO


I do believe it probably threw both the Crown and Defense for a loop.

Crown thinking they had their slam dunk

Defense thinking they can blame it ALL on TLM


Overall, however, I think the Defense is the one who was damaged the most with this revelation in January.

~n/t~
04-26-2012, 03:34 PM
Avery Moore ‏ @AveryFreeFMNews
Judge calls 10 minute afternoon recess. Shorter than the normal 20 to allow the Crown to finish up with witness in time.

robynhood
04-26-2012, 03:35 PM
...sorry but has anyone seen ANYTHING from the defense yet???...as Otto writes above ..sorry can not find post ...twitters are coming in quickly ...robynhood

Tahorn
04-26-2012, 03:36 PM
Does anyone else feel that Derstine's line of defense was blown out of the water by TLM's "new" confession in January?

Surely his line of defense all this time, was to show what a liar TLM was, because she said MTR killed Victoria.

Now, he can't try and focus on just how much of a liar TLM is and was, because, he wants the Jury to believe her "moment of truth" about who wielded the hammer on Tori.

Funny enough, the very character assassination that he has so vigorously defended and tried to prevent against for his client, will be the very thing he focuses on in the defense of his client, as he presents the character flaws of TLM.

Do you think the Jury will pick-up on that? Will they think he is grasping at straws?

JMO

She changed her story back in January ... I assume the defence was notified.

~n/t~
04-26-2012, 03:36 PM
...sorry but has anyone seen ANYTHING from the defense yet???...as Otto writes above ..sorry can not find post ...twitters are coming in quickly ...robynhood

Not yet. We're on our last witness for the Crown's case.

otto
04-26-2012, 03:38 PM
....I am asking because I am seriously considering driving to London ...IF Rafferty takes the stand in his defense...this case has me so deeply upset! ....Guess I will have to wait and see....AWho knows what will be happening tomorrow ....another Court day off ...as I read numerous times ...the crown should be finished today ???....very curious and I guess I am feeling anxious about this whole darn thing as I read IMO....seems like ...MAny feel the same here ????..robynhood

I tend to have faith in the system and the jury. I can't imagine how MR could be found not guilty of first degree murder given his participation in the kidnapping and murder. He facilitated the event by choosing to drive the victim to the location where she was assaulted and murdered and by providing money for the purchase of the murder weapon. I believe that he sexually assaulted Victoria and that he caused injury that may have resulted in death ... we'll never know for sure, but I don't think it can be ruled out. Eariler on the day of the murder he claimed that "good things were coming his way" and he did everything he could after the murder to hide his participation in the crime. It appears to me that his jail visits to TLM were based on his goal to ensure that she kept her mouth shut. I think that the jury would have to ignore overwhelming circumstantial evidence to find him not guilty of first degree murder.

robynhood
04-26-2012, 03:38 PM
As we all know the defence has no obligation to present a defence or even if they do to let the Crown know what their defence might be. They either opt in to a discovery agreement or essentially play poker with their hands. MOO

ETA: One of you will know because I cannot remember was it this trial or TLM's that proceeded without a prelim hearing?

...No prelim hearing in ths trial...rafferty went striaght to court ...OMg but 3 years after the fact ...robynhood

sillybilly
04-26-2012, 03:39 PM
What 8 year old child would go along with being kidnapped without making a stink? I can not see how he could not know at some point in time that she was being held against her will. It wasn't like it was a 10 minute drive or something, it took hours. Even BA said she didn't see a child in his car, so a child being hidden in the backseat (maybe?) of a vehicle proves to me that he knew she wasn't just being babysat. I don't hide kids I am babysitting from public view in my vehicle. Maybe he didn't initially know it, but at one time he had to have known. He had ample opportunity to stop her murder if he wasn't part of the initial plan IMO.

Not to mention that the same dude that was subsequently buying gifts for JW's kids didn't even bother to bring Tori a treat from Tim Hortons. I don't even come out of Timmies without Timbits for my dogs.

Heartless bas---ds !!

otto
04-26-2012, 03:44 PM
...sorry but has anyone seen ANYTHING from the defense yet???...as Otto writes above ..sorry can not find post ...twitters are coming in quickly ...robynhood

The defence's expert witness list would have been given to the crown, but I doubt it will be released to the public until the witnesses actually testify.

Sailor Bug
04-26-2012, 03:44 PM
The jury is back in the courtroom.

RaffertyLFP: The court is being shown a timeline and synopsis of the video evidence starting with Galley Cinema

He's prepared a video timeline from April 8th, 2009.

Sailor Bug
04-26-2012, 03:47 PM
Video actually begins on March 25th, with Gallery Cinemas clips.

Video shows Rafferty's car passing by Oliver Stephens after 9am, then McClintic at Foodland after 10.

RaffertyLFP: Video moves on to McClintic in grocery store and Rafferty at ABM - these last two on morning of April 8

Then, shows Rafferty at BMO in Woodstock withdrawing cash after 11.

At 11:13, Rafferty withdrew $400 put in his account by Charity Spitzig.

robynhood
04-26-2012, 03:48 PM
Video shows Rafferty's car passing by Oliver Stephens after 9am, then McClintic at Foodland after 10....complete timeline from video evidence on April 8 2009 is now being shown in court....robynhood

Shasta
04-26-2012, 03:49 PM
Nobody is getting $5700/month.
They said they get $57/month. No extra zeroes. That was also for CTB, not OW.
Not many people are getting $5700/year from social assistance, even. Don't worry, people on social assistance are living in miserable poverty, unless they are doing something on the side that they aren't allowed to do (and would disqualify them for assistance if found out). We will skip dinner for 2 weeks just to buy a new pair of pants for $20 at walmart, due to massive crotch-holes in the one pair we own. THAT is the system at work.

I was on social assistance for 3 years when my children were young after my marriage failed and I was attending university. It's a horrible thing. If you're honest and play by the rules, it's desperate, abject poverty. Always robbing Peter to pay Paul--so to speak. I was grateful for this safety net, but it sure is difficult to raise children and live in such deprived conditions.

I felt so ashamed to be receiving benefits. My shoulders slumped and I couldn't look people in the eye. And although I remember many kindnesses from neighbours, friends and family, I also remember terrible things being said to my children and disparaging comments from people who always assumed my uni education was being paid by the public coffers when, in fact, I paid for my education myself through an OSAP loan. I believe anyone who can manage a family on the paltry amounts dished out by this "system" is truly remarkable, resilient and resourceful.

crazyladi
04-26-2012, 03:50 PM
I think that every murder trial or high profile case gets scrutinized on how it could have been done better, The deal with the devil being one of them.No one is perfect and unfortunately wrong people have been convicted.

This case has so much evidence its not even funny. Again the only thing that isnt screaming 100% guilty for some is the rape. I am at a 80/20 but if I was a juror weighing all the evidence I would say he is guilty of the rape because of the following reasons.

1) Tori found without pants
2) Male semen mixed with Tori's blood.
3) TLM's testimony

Although I want to not believe someone is so sick I do believe her testimony as all the evidence has pretty much painted the same picture to what she has said so far. She wasnt privy to the information like MTR was. He knows what he can lie about because he was out a month after the murder.

I wouldnt want someone going to jail for something they did not do but for the rape but the evidence is showing it happened IMO

I probably wouldnt be a good juror

robynhood
04-26-2012, 03:51 PM
...looks like Crown is wrapping up ...OMg...IMo I dread what will happen when derstine starts ...defense ...A post here from reporter did say if Rafferty is to take the stand it is to happen before witnesses start ...I read...Imo I will be surprised if Rafferty does....But IMO ...one never knows in this case what may happen next ....Omg robynhood.

Sailor Bug
04-26-2012, 03:52 PM
In the courtroom, Rafferty watching the video of himself closely.

Next video is from just after 3 pm. Rafferty driving by CASS. Similar video from 3:20.

At 3:25, Rafferty comes to the Esso on Parkinson Road, then leaves soon after.

RaffertyLFP: Video moves on to CASS video of Honda Civic and then Civic at Esso gas station

Sailor Bug
04-26-2012, 03:54 PM
At 3:25, Rafferty comes to the Esso on Parkinson Road, then leaves soon after.

Earlier tweet should say 3:30. Rafferty returns to the school area then. His car is seen on the CASS video.

At 3:32, McClintic and Tori seen on video walking near CASS.

On an alternative, very distant angle, McClintic and Tori suggested to be the 2 people walking near CASS soon after the first video ended.

RaffertyLFP: Video moves on to infamous "white-coated woman" leading Tori away from her school - now know to be McClintic

A vehicle fitting the description of Rafferty's is seen leaving CC Retirement Home a short time later.

Sailor Bug
04-26-2012, 03:58 PM
RaffertyLFP: Video moves on to parking lot of Home Depot in Guelph around 5 pm

Now showing vehicle that matches Rafferty's, highlighted in red, on Home Depot exterior camera.

RaffertyLFP: Video show Rafferty entering Petro Can next to Home Depot to use ABM

A person, suggested to be Rafferty, gets out of the vehicle, and walks towards the PetroCanada.

Sailor Bug
04-26-2012, 04:01 PM
Next clip shows a person, who looks like Rafferty, entering the PetroCanada in Guelph (beside Home Depot) and using the ATM

Rafferty's car then droves towards the Home Depot. A person who looks like McClintic (wearing the white jacket) gets out and goes inside.

RaffertyLFP: Video moves to Home Depot parking lot McClintic gets out and goes inside

McClintic (we now know) purchases a hammer and garbage bags from the Home Depot, self checkout.

RaffertyLFP: Inset video shows McClintic in store shopping

robynhood
04-26-2012, 04:03 PM
RaffertyLFP Video moves on to parking lot of Home Depot in Guelph around 5 pm....so timeline seems right as we know...IMO cofirms TLC telling the truth >>>TIME WISE>>> and confirms time of when the horrible deed was done as cell phone was off ....give accurate timeline ..IMO ..robynhood

Sailor Bug
04-26-2012, 04:07 PM
Showing the entirety of the wait outside at Home Depot. Crown's theory is Rafferty and Tori were in the car together.

Showing a split screen now, the parking lot on one side, McClintic buying the items on the other. Timing is simultaneous.

is this on April 8?

Yes. They said it would all be the 8th, then showed the cinema video.

At 5:12, McClintic leaves Home Depot. Rafferty moves his car towards the door to pick her up.

Video shows the person believed to be McClintic putting items into Rafferty's vehicle's trunk. What's believed to be his car leaves the lot

The video ends.

RaffertyLFP: Video wraps up with McClintic approached Rafferty car in parking lot and putting bag in trunk they drive away

Sailor Bug
04-26-2012, 04:12 PM
No more questions from Carnegie. Derstine now cross examining.

RaffertyLFP: Derstine begins cross examination of Lanna

Derstine asks what makes cars unique in Lanna's eyes.

Derstine suggests putting a sunroof in a car is not a stock option, but not unique. Lanna suggests limited class.

Derstine asks how something becomes unique, when there are multiple unusual items.

Lanna suggests the hood scoop in Rafferty's car wasn't put in with somebody with that level of skill. Derstine suggests he wouldn't know.

robynhood
04-26-2012, 04:13 PM
M980_Court At 5:12, McClintic leaves Home Depot. Rafferty moves his car towards the door to pick her up....IMO >>>>>I guess Crown is doing this to CONFIRM all videos are true images so Defense can NOT deny in any way that RAfferty;s car was there.... ok cross examination begins ...twitter just said...IMo this should be interesting...robynhood

LoyalSleuth
04-26-2012, 04:13 PM
Showing the entirety of the wait outside at Home Depot. Crown's theory is Rafferty and Tori were in the car together.

Showing a split screen now, the parking lot on one side, McClintic buying the items on the other. Timing is simultaneous.

is this on April 8?

Yes. They said it would all be the 8th, then showed the cinema video.

At 5:12, McClintic leaves Home Depot. Rafferty moves his car towards the door to pick her up.

RaffertyLFP: Video wraps up with McClintic approached Rafferty car in parking lot and putting bag in trunk they drive away

I have often wondered if she was conscious during the BA visit and this HD stop... No Movement at all seen in the vehicle... TS seemed so spirited and smart IMO, she would have known the car is not moving - why wouldn't she of peeked out saw they were in public and made a fight for it, scream, something... IMO - she was gone already, passed I mean...

robynhood
04-26-2012, 04:16 PM
I have often wondered if she was conscious during the BA visit and this HD stop... No Movement at all seen in the vehicle... TS seemed so spirited and smart IMO, she would have known the car is not moving - why wouldn't she of peeked out saw they were in public and made a fight for it, scream, something... IMO - she was gone already, passed I mean.......Imo I think they drugged here ...my Strong OPINION ...I think that is why they bought a tea actually...robynhood

Sailor Bug
04-26-2012, 04:16 PM
RaffertyLFP: Derstine questions "unique" characteristics of Rafferty's Civic Lanna said combination of hood scoop spoiler rims together could be unique

Lanna agrees, he isn't familiar with the skill sets of people working in the area.

RaffertyLFP: Derstine questionCs Lanna's conclusion that car seen in three CASS vides likely the same

Derstine asks about the cars seen at 9:04, 3:05 and 3:30. How he decided they were the same car.

Derstine suggests the sun in the morning changes the tone, Lanna agrees, but says not enough to change his conclusion.

LoyalSleuth
04-26-2012, 04:19 PM
....Imo I think they drugged here ...my Strong OPINION ...I think that is why they bought a tea actually...robynhood

I have asked previously if there were toxicology tests done on her remains, I don't recall seeing an answer...
When did they get the tea?

matou
04-26-2012, 04:19 PM
@AM980_Court (https://twitter.com/#%21/AM980_Court)

(https://twitter.com/#%21/AM980_Court/status/195607660782034944)Derstine asks about the cars seen at 9:04, 3:05 and 3:30. How he decided they were the same car.

Here we go...JMO

matou
04-26-2012, 04:20 PM
‏ @AM980_Court (https://twitter.com/#%21/AM980_Court)

(https://twitter.com/#%21/AM980_Court/status/195607840788987904)Derstine suggests the sun in the morning changes the tone, Lanna agrees, but says not enough to change his conclusion.

....and there you go...JMO

robynhood
04-26-2012, 04:21 PM
Derstine suggests the sun in the morning changes the tone, Lanna agrees, but says not enough to change his conclusion.....from twitter ....robynhood .

matou
04-26-2012, 04:21 PM
‏ @AM980_Court (https://twitter.com/#%21/AM980_Court)

(https://twitter.com/#%21/AM980_Court/status/195608422501187586)Lanna getting technical when explaining the comparison. He says vehicles could look the same as the one on the video.