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View Full Version : KY KY - Katie Gray, 10 months, West Paducah, 29 Nov 2004



LovelyPigeon
12-02-2004, 06:09 PM
Baby girl swept away by flood near Paducah
Father lost his grip on car seat in creek
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
By James Malone
jmalone@courier-journal.com
The Courier-Journal
WEST PADUCAH, Ky. — Rescue teams searched five miles of a rain-swollen creek yesterday for a 10-month-old whose father said she was swept from his arms after his vehicle stalled in the water.

By midmorning, searchers two miles downstream on Massac Creek found only the diaper bag and blanket belonging to Katie Michelle Gray, said Mitchell Covington, a McCracken County Rescue Squad member.

Her father, Johnnie Gray, 37, a mechanic, told investigators that he had been test-driving a sport-utility vehicle to check repairs, county Chief Deputy Terry Long said.

Gray and his wife, Sandy Gray, 32, also said they occasionally took the baby on drives at night to help her to fall asleep, Long said.

About midnight they drove on a remote gravel road off Mayfield-Metropolis Road, crossed the creek and turned around in a nearby gravel pit, Long said the father told investigators. The family waited about 15 minutes before attempting to return, Long said.

But the water had risen, the vehicle stalled, and Gray and his wife attempted to get out, Long said.

Sandy Gray said she was swept away by the current, but she was able to get out of the water, Long said.

Johnnie Gray said he grabbed his daughter's car seat with her in it and attempted to get to the bank but lost his footing and his grip on the seat, Long said.

Long said it took the couple about an hour to report what happened because Johnnie Gray said he tried to find the baby and then had to walk to the closest house to call authorities. --->>

http://www.courier-journal.com/localnews/2004/12/01ky/B4-drown12010-3123.html

Katie is missing in Paducah, KY, where I live. There seems to be no way Katie can still be alive. Local SAR teams and other volunteers have been out night and day searching but nothing found yet except a baby blanket and diaper bag.

The circumstances are tragic and questions do arise about the situation, timing, location, etc

Casshew
12-02-2004, 06:38 PM
This sounds highly suspect.

Jeana (DP)
12-02-2004, 06:39 PM
Dear God how horrible. I pray that it was an accident and there was no foul play. We've had way TOO much of that!!

LovelyPigeon
12-02-2004, 07:10 PM
I also hope the parents were just behaving foolishly--and not criminally-- Monday night regarding their own and their daughter's safety.

Police did the right thing immediately searching near the couple's apartment (it's 8 miles from the creek site by my calculation) and innocent parents also have the right to be upset for being suspected. That's just part of investigating a tragedy.

Johnnie Gray is angry that police searched the woods and dumpster behind his apartment instead of searching the creek. "We've been up all night dealing with the police, and last night the police shows up ... and cleans out every dumpster in the apartment, and put the dogs in the woods, looking for our baby.

Police say it's part of their investigation and they do not suspect foul play at this time. - http://www.wave3.com/Global/story.asp?S=2638635&nav=0RZFTkAV

MrPigeon is a volunteer fireman and we heard the call Monday night for rescue assistance on his radio (next fire district over, so he didn't respond). Of course it's front page news here but our local newspaper (The Paducah Sun) although online can't be read without paid subscription so the news available on the internet is from other sources in the state.

LovelyPigeon
12-04-2004, 06:45 PM
from the Associated Press today:

Paducah (AP) The father of a 10-month-old missing since Monday in flooded Massac Creek took a polygraph test.

Johnnie Gray claimed he lost his grip of his daughter's car seat the creek.

Gray says he voluntarily took the test to prove his innocence in the disappearance of Katie Michelle Gray.

McCracken County Sheriff Frank Augustus confirmed that Gray took the test but would not discuss the results.

Crews were working to build a makeshift earthen dam and pump water out of the creek. That came after two cadaver dogs indicated a body may be in an area just downstream from where the incident happened.

Drove by the site this afternoon and not a soul there. Nothing on the local news and nothing new on the internet, either. From the looks of things--actually the lack of -- at the creek the search has been suspended.

alpharee
12-04-2004, 06:49 PM
thanks LP for the updates. I really hope this was an accident. To many babbies are dying at the hands of someone they trust.

LovelyPigeon
12-05-2004, 05:53 PM
The search has been suspended. Sheriff Augustus says other leads are being pursued. The Ohio is rising and that causes water to back up into the creeks that empty into the river, so that could be one reason to suspend the search.

Another is that the area of the creek where cadaver dogs indicated interest has been searched and dug out and nothing found.

The car seat with the body inside could have been swept into the river while the creek waters were first high. Or searches of the creek have just failed to find the body. Or, the car seat and Katie were never in the creek at all.

I think cadaver scent on the baby blanket would indicate that the blanket was in contact with a dead child but I'm not absolutely positive whether the cadaver dog indicated a firm alert on the blanket or on the creek bank or at all. I know interest was shown at the same area by both cadaver dogs brought in, but I don't know if the dogs actually were given the blanket to scent after the blanket was found.

Juliana
12-05-2004, 06:47 PM
Thanks for the updates, LP.

BeeBee
12-05-2004, 06:59 PM
This sounds highly suspect.

I'm with you on this one Cass.

They are out at midnight with him supposedly checking repairs that were done on an S-10 Blazer.

They cross the creek, turn around in a gravel pit and then.... 15 minutes later try to cross the creek again. What were they doing in that 15 minutes? Was he under the hood checking something that sounded funny since they were apparently driving the vehicle for that reason? Couldn't see or hear the creek rising?

And did they grab the diaper bag when trying to save their lives and the life of their baby? Or leave the vehicle doors open and it floated out?

Nope, this just doesn't sound right to me. Wish I knew more.

Casshew
12-05-2004, 10:43 PM
Interesting that the Dad took the Polygraph and not the Mom. I hope this is just a freak tragedy and that no one murdered this infant :(

I know all families are different but driving around at midnight with an baby to check car repairs just sounds all wrong. Can't blame the police for checking out the dumpster etc... and can't blame innocent parents for being upset that they are suspected on top of dealing with thier grief and guilt.

Waiting to hear more on this one.. thanks LP

Fran Bancroft
12-05-2004, 11:31 PM
Why is this suspect to you? Are you familiar with the flooding in this area? I am very familiar with this area. The rivers and creeks. Unless you are in downtown Paducah, you have to walk a ways anywhere. This is sad, but sounds to me to simply be a tragedy. I am very sorry for the greiving parents. It is always sad to me when people try to make the greiving loved ones out to be villians.
This sounds highly suspect.

Fran Bancroft
12-05-2004, 11:32 PM
I'm with you on this one Cass.

They are out at midnight with him supposedly checking repairs that were done on an S-10 Blazer.

They cross the creek, turn around in a gravel pit and then.... 15 minutes later try to cross the creek again. What were they doing in that 15 minutes? Was he under the hood checking something that sounded funny since they were apparently driving the vehicle for that reason? Couldn't see or hear the creek rising?

And did they grab the diaper bag when trying to save their lives and the life of their baby? Or leave the vehicle doors open and it floated out?

Nope, this just doesn't sound right to me. Wish I knew more.Actually, this IS exactly the type of thing I would expect to see in Paducah.

No, you very likely wouldn't see or hear the creek rising, either.

Fran Bancroft
12-05-2004, 11:35 PM
If you've been to this area, you could see how very easily this type of accident could occur. There were parks in the Paducah area that I specifically didn't go to with my children because of the rivers.

Very Sad. I hope WS's will simply pray for the greiving family and not falsely accuse them.


thanks LP for the updates. I really hope this was an accident. To many babbies are dying at the hands of someone they trust.

LovelyPigeon
12-05-2004, 11:53 PM
Fran, I live in Paducah, or more specifically in Lone Oak. The area where this happened is out in McCracken county and not in town. You have to turn off of Massac Metropolis road onto a gravel road that runs alongside a soybean field that's private property. It's 8 miles by Mapquest from their apartment to that location.

The creek was full, rising, and it was still raining when the Grays drove out there last Monday night. It could be an accident that the car was caught in rising creek water but it's not as if the creek were dry then suddenly flooded. There had been lots of rain before that night and creeks were full and still rising on Monday.

BeeBee, the dad told police early on that they drove across, sat for a few minutes listening to the water in the creek, then attempted to drive back across. Listening to the water is what he told police they were doing in that 15 minutes or so.

Casshew, the mother was checked into the psychiatric ward of one local hospital just a few hours after this happened. Police haven't been able to talk to her at all.

Fran Bancroft
12-06-2004, 12:08 AM
I'm glad you live there. It is a wonderful place. Surely you can understand how this could be an accident. Unfortunately, many people die each year not realizing the danger of rising water.

I am very sorry for the parents and what they are going through.

(OT, Last time I was in Paducah they were putting up the lovely murals downtown along the water. They had many done. How does it look now?)

Fran, I live in Paducah, or more specifically in Lone Oak. The area where this happened is out in McCracken county and not in town. You have to turn off of Massac Metropolis road onto a gravel road that runs alongside a soybean field that's private property. It's 8 miles by Mapquest from their apartment to that location.

The creek was full, rising, and it was still raining when the Grays drove out there last Monday night. It could be an accident that the car was caught in rising creek water but it's not as if the creek were dry then suddenly flooded. There had been lots of rain before that night and creeks were full and still rising on Monday.

BeeBee, the dad told police early on that they drove across, sat for a few minutes listening to the water in the creek, then attempted to drive back across. Listening to the water is what he told police they were doing in that 15 minutes or so.

Casshew, the mother was checked into the psychiatric ward of one local hospital just a few hours after this happened. Police haven't been able to talk to her at all.

LovelyPigeon
12-06-2004, 12:25 AM
Check under Museums/Attractions at http://www.paducah-tourism.org/ for info on the flood wall murals.

Yes, this could have been an accident. It could have happened just as Gray tells it. But there are some suspicious circumstances and the story he tells could be concocted. I don't know which. I do know that local law enforcement suspects that Katie was never in that creek but died and was disposed of elsewhere.

I much prefer it was just an accident, however stupid and preventable an accident. To be falsely suspected and/or accused is a horrible sitation, and I think that's where the Grays find themselves now.

Mr Gray appears to be a very unsophisticated, perhaps even illiterate man. He also appears to relatively unemotional. His public presentation makes one wonder if he could be capable of concocting and sticking with a lie in the face of repeated interrogation.

Fran Bancroft
12-06-2004, 01:48 AM
Thanks for the link.

I would tend to support the family before I accused them in this situation.

Further, the police in Kentucky can vary from being very warm and hospitable to having a reputation for being harsh and accusatory depending on the town/county.

I hope this couple is supported unless firm evidence supports the contrary.

Arielle
12-06-2004, 09:14 AM
I can definately see how this was a stupid accident. Although I'm not familiar with this area at all, there is a similar spot in San Antonio, TX. It is called Salado Creek and it floods practically every time it rains. And yet, someone is always caught in it at a low water crossing. Everyone knows that it floods and is dangerous, yet people are constantly dying in the thing. Bottom line, many people are stupid and take stupid risks because that sort of thing "just can't happen to them. They are good drivers, their cars are better able to handle the deep water, etc etc etc"

The story of driving around with the baby in the car to get her to go to sleep makes perfect sense to me. Many people do it. Checking out the repairs made to a car earlier in the day also makes sense to me. If you are going to have to drive around, why not do something useful while you are at it. Stopping for 15 minute in a dark spot, leaving the car running and listening to the water would be very soothing to an upset child I would think. I don't really find the story to be all that suspicious. It is not something I would do, but I can certainly see it happening.

But then, I also remember seeing one of the forensic shows where a man killed his wife and then disposed of her in a flooded creek hoping that this would not be considered homicide. I think we are just naturally suspicious people and I think that it is sad that we are so.

LovelyPigeon
12-06-2004, 01:55 PM
This creek crossing is not on a paved road. It's on private farm property, 1/4 mile off the paved road, down a dirt/gravel lane. It seems an odd place to drive to late at night and especially during falling rain.

I understand LE having suspicions around this case, and particularly after not finding Katie following extensive searching of the creek and surrounding area.

Of course, everyone in the county is talking about it and I haven't yet run into a person not expressing suspicions of their own about the circumstances. It may have been an accident but local public opinion doesn't seem to be leaning that way.

Meanwhile, Katie is still missing, presumed dead.

LovelyPigeon
12-06-2004, 02:01 PM
From Paducah's News Channel 6:

Sunday, December 05, 2004

Search crews did not rest Sunday. They are still hard at work, trying to find Katie Gray. The 10-month-old baby disappeared nearly one week ago when her parents tried to cross the rain swollen Massac Creek in Paducah, KY.

Sunday a new detective joined the scene. Grim, a bloodhound from Missouri, has experience recovering human remains from fast moving water. Even though K-9 detectives have looked all week for Gray, handlers say now is the best time for them to find her. Coroner Dan Sims tells News Channel 6's Lisa Ripley, "Basically, the body is going to be putting off gases, fumes, and odors that the dogs are trained to detect." - http://www.wpsdtv.com/articles/stories/public/200412/05/010u_local_news.html

lisag
12-06-2004, 03:58 PM
How very sad... I refuse to make any accusations at this time...
It is very normal for parents to take their children out for a drive to get them to sleep. I used to do it with my oldest daughter all the time.. That was one of the only ways Icould get her to sleep for awhile..
I have NO IDEA what the creek area is like and will not speculate.

I cant imagine losing hold of the car seat though... If it were me, I would hang on to it with dear life and we would go down together... But again, I was not there and have not been in that situation (thank God) and I don't know if it was physically possible to hang on to it or not...

Right now, all I can think about is this poor little girl.. I hope they find her soon, so she can be put to rest properly... I hate to think of the creek being her eternal resting place.

LovelyPigeon
12-06-2004, 08:13 PM
" I KILLED MY BABY... ", REPORTS WITNESS
DAY 7 OF THE SEARCH
Anna Prendergast
Monday, December 06, 2004
In an exclusive interview with NewsChannel 6, a couple that knew Johnny and Sandy Gray say the couple showed up at their doorstep the night their daughter, Katie, was lost in a rain-swollen Massac Creek acting suspiciously.

The couple, who only agreed to an interview if their identities could be protected, say they told their story to authorities. --->>

a couple that lives near Massac Creek, and claims to be friends of the Grays, says the story the public is hearing is not the entire story, "There was too much of a time lapse from when they got to our house and the time the baby supposedly dissapeared".

In his report to police and in interviews with NewsChannel 6, Johnny Gray said his Blazer (actually a vehicle he was working on for a former employer) in Massac Creek near Mayfield-Metropolis Road around 10pm November 29th.--->>

Gray says he then lost his footing and let go of the car seat.

He says he then walked down this road for about a 1/2 mile before stopping at a friend's house for help.

The couple that has come forward says they were those friends, but that Gray and his wife claimed their car had broken down and they needed a ride home.

"I asked them where Katie is they said she's at the babysitters".

Later, the Gray's returned to the house with a different story, said one witness, "the second time they came back they said we got to tell you the truth. Katie is down there in the creek".

That was about 1AM. The 911 call came into police at 1:08AM.

That's when, according to our source, Sandy Gray, sobbing, said,

"She said I killed my baby....I killed my baby...I know i killed my baby!"--->>
http://www.wpsdtv.com/articles/stories/public/200412/06/010A_local_news.html

I had heard this story already but this is the first time I've seen it reported.

Another detail I have heard, but isn't reported here, is that the mother said she had the car seat first, dropped it, then the dad was able to recover it, then dad also dropped it.

All this could still be a tragic accident. It could also be that the parents were afraid they'd be suspected of harming their child on purpose and were just trying to avoid that. I don't want to think the worse of this couple, and I sure hope it turns out to be accidental.

As of this afternoon, Katie still hasn't been found.

Casshew
12-06-2004, 09:10 PM
The 'witnesses' being unnamed is also suspect.. this could be true, this could be nonsense. I guess there is nothing to do but wait.

Katy's Mom still in the hospital?

LovelyPigeon
12-06-2004, 09:25 PM
No local news about the mom being released as yet. It could happen and not be reported on, though.

I think it's very possible the mother would still feel supreme guilt over accidently losing her grip on the car seat, if that's what happened. If so, that could account for her statement to the witnesses.

The witnesses are real, and live where they say they live. Local LE didn't want them to talk to media and when media persuaded them to talk they wanted to remain anonymous. I don't think that will pacify Sheriff Augustus but there's no gag order in place so there's really nothing he can do about it.

I haven't heard or read when Katie was last seen by anyone other than her parents, and don't know if when will impact on the case or not, but I can't help but wonder.

Casshew
12-06-2004, 09:46 PM
You have to wonder how the media persuaded the witnesses to speak if local police told them not to. $$$

As soon as I heard the Father took the Polygraph, I immediately wondered about the Mom, perhaps she has done something and her husband is covering for her with the flood story?

Poor little baby, they need to find her ASAP. Thanks for the updates, this is a tragic loss however it happened.

Maybe So
12-06-2004, 10:18 PM
Could just be a tragic accident and a couple of not too bright parents who were terrified that they would be suspect.

Also, if they had killed the baby and only took her there to dump her body wouldn't the cadaver dogs have hit on the vehicle?

Or if she was alive during the ride but they tossed her in the creek to kill her on purpose...then why would the mom be crying about it out loud in front of people like she did?

Strange case. I hope they didn't murder the baby. I do agree something sounds odd about the whole thing.

Another thing that strikes me as odd is the fact that they can't find this child especially since the child is strapped into a car seat. How can a child and a car seat dissapear like that?

LovelyPigeon
12-06-2004, 10:26 PM
Casshew there's no $$ from local media for granting interviews, anonymous or not. You might be thinking of tabloids which offer money. The witnesses told their story to others at the search scene, which is how the local media found out about them.

MaybeSo, the baby is a she--Katie Gray, 10 months old.

I don't know for certain that cadaver dogs showed more than just "interest". I haven't read or heard of any definite alerts given by the dogs. I think the rushing water could remove the cadaver scent from the vehicle. It had been engulfed in the creek for hours when the tow truck pulled it out.

I'd like to know if either or both cadaver dogs actually alerted on the blanket that had been removed from the creek's bank by the time dogs arrived but I haven't been able to find that out yet.

Casshew
12-06-2004, 10:29 PM
Why do you think they would talk to the press when told not to? maybe they were just being hounded? Information such as they have leaked is dangerous, anyone could read it the wrong way inferring the parents are involved and try some vigilante justice. It was really not the brightest thing to do... talking to the press.

Maybe So
12-06-2004, 10:38 PM
Casshew there's no $$ from local media for granting interviews, anonymous or not. You might be thinking of tabloids which offer money. The witnesses told their story to others at the search scene, which is how the local media found out about them.

MaybeSo, the baby is a she--Katie Gray, 10 months old.

I don't know for certain that cadaver dogs showed more than just "interest". I haven't read or heard of any definite alerts given by the dogs. I think the rushing water could remove the cadaver scent from the vehicle. It had been engulfed in the creek for hours when the tow truck pulled it out.

I'd like to know if either or both cadaver dogs actually alerted on the blanket that had been removed from the creek's bank by the time dogs arrived but I haven't been able to find that out yet.

Yep, I knew it was a girl but for some reason used "him" throughout my entire post....LOL....I must have been mentally picturing my son in the baby seat while I was trying to think about whether I would have taken the car seat out of the vehicle with a child in it or if I would have taken the child out in my arms. I think I would have gotten by baby out and left the car seat behind in the vehicle.

LovelyPigeon
12-06-2004, 10:44 PM
MS, others have also questioned to me about taking the time to unstrap the car seat. I thought maybe the baby was strapped in the seat but the seat wasn't strapped in the car with a seat belt.

Casshew, I don't know the motivation of the witnesses to speak to local tv. Maybe they felt pressured, or maybe they are angry if they think the parents guilty of a crime.

LovelyPigeon
12-07-2004, 06:28 PM
I'll have to summarize what the Paducah Sun article contains today because I can't find the same info online anywhere to link to.

Two reporters from the Sun interviewed Katie's parents Sandy and Johnnie Gray, and also the witnesses/friends, Peggy and Harold Wallace, whose comments were on Channel 6 news.

This is the order of events for that night, given by JGray and HWallace:

The Grays became stuck in the creek after 10pm, lost Katie about 10:30pm, looked for her a while, then walked to the Wallace home 1/2 mile away arriving about 11:00. The Grays told the Wallaces that Katie was at a babysitter, that they had been at a party but left the party without a ride home after getting into an argument. The Grays asked Wallace to take them home, and he did, stopping on the way to buy cigarettes for the Grays at a gas station. The receipt for the cigarettes has the time as 11:37pm.

After the Grays got home, they decided they had to tell the truth so they went back to the Wallace home and JGray told them "Katie's down there in the creek." PWallace then jumped up and asked if LE had been called. LE had not been called. A 911 call was made from the Wallace house about 1am.

It was when the Grays returned to the Wallace house that KGray became hysterical and made the comments about killing her daughter. KGray told the Sun reporters that she was hysterical, and they quote her as explaining: "we didn't have our baby when we left the creek. If I ever made any comment that I killed my baby, it's because we had just lost her...It's because I knew she was gone and because I was hysterical...I wanted to run after it happened. But I didn't kill my baby; she was just gone. It was so dark I couldn't see anything."

LovelyPigeon
12-07-2004, 06:34 PM
Also, JGray said he would not attempt to take any more polygraphs--he tried 4 times on Friday to take one--because he is getting a lawyer. LE only says that a polygraph was inconclusive because Gray was so upset at the time.

LE says that SGray may also be asked to take a polygraph. She has not talked to LE since Nov 30, shortly after the incident. LE was not able to talk to her while she was hospitalized.

Sheriff Augustus was quoted as saying that even if the Grays' account is true, they may still be charged with negligence.

The search for Katie is continuing.

Casshew
12-07-2004, 07:14 PM
Okay

I am trying to put myself in their place... say I was out and got caught in the rain swollen river and my baby was washed away... I think I would be hysterical and try to get help or search myself... you know, run to the closest house and call the police, fire dept.. have everyone come help search.

The part about them lying that Katie was at the babysitter just throws such a wrench in everything. It means they were concious of appearances and conspired between the two of them to tell their friends this untruth.. valuble time was wasted in the search for little katie.. hours lost on that lie.

Then the stopping for cigarettes thing ~ seriously where are their priorities at this point?

I would like to understand a little more about these people and where they are from.. LP, do you know what they do for a living? are they educated? other family members?

The Mom spoke to the newspaper yet she has not spoken to the Police since Nov 30th.. none of this is making any sense to me. :snooty:

BeeBee
12-07-2004, 08:20 PM
The Mom spoke to the newspaper yet she has not spoken to the Police since Nov 30th.. none of this is making any sense to me. :snooty:

I'm sorry to say that's it's making sense to me.

The "stopping" for cigarettes just bring the words "cold blooded" to mind.

Juliana
12-07-2004, 08:24 PM
I don't know - it is just not ringing true to me. I mean would you ever leave that creek willingly knowing your child was in it? And walk half a mile to your friend's house? I can see one of the parents staying to search and the other one going to the friend's house for help, but that is not what happened.

imo

LovelyPigeon
12-07-2004, 08:30 PM
As far as I know, Casshew, both parents are from around here. His appearance on television earlier gave the impression of someone who is uneducated and not well-spoken. Friends of the families whose photos I've seen in the paper look more sophisticated than Gray.

He has worked as a mechanic. I don't remember reading whether the mother is employed.

Lying about where Katie was after they'd lost her in the waters of the creek, then delaying notifying LE to conduct a search sure does put a wrench into things. It makes it harder, though not impossible, to believe that the loss of Katie was accidental.

LovelyPigeon
12-07-2004, 08:42 PM
I'm aghast that the parents weren't hysterical 30 minutes after they'd lost Katie into the creek, when they first arrived at the Wallace house. How to be able to calmly pretend Katie was at a sitter's and they'd just left a party?

Maybe shock and grief could cause that reaction...I just don't know.

lisag
12-07-2004, 08:42 PM
Okay
The part about them lying that Katie was at the babysitter just throws such a wrench in everything. It means they were concious of appearances and conspired between the two of them to tell their friends this untruth.. valuble time was wasted in the search for little katie.. hours lost on that lie.

Then the stopping for cigarettes thing ~ seriously where are their priorities at this point? :

My thoughts exactly !!

LovelyPigeon
12-07-2004, 08:50 PM
Obviously, the story they first told would never be confirmable. They weren't at a party and Katie wasn't at a sitter's. The most superficial investigation would quickly reveal that as a lie.

I wonder if some elements of the truth are in there. Maybe they had been "partying" earlier, maybe they fought about something either before or after the car stalled in the creek, maybe they even fought over carrying Katie's car seat which caused them both to lose their grip on it. Would drugs dull their initial reaction to the tragedy?

Maybe So
12-07-2004, 10:33 PM
I'm aghast that the parents weren't hysterical 30 minutes after they'd lost Katie into the creek, when they first arrived at the Wallace house. How to be able to calmly pretend Katie was at a sitter's and they'd just left a party?

Maybe shock and grief could cause that reaction...I just don't know.

Also, how could they lie and say they were at a party. Shouldn't they have been soaking wet, covered in mud, and disheveled looking from wading out of and/or searching the creek for their child?

LovelyPigeon
12-07-2004, 11:04 PM
They were wet and muddy, according to the Wallaces...but it was raining and muddy outside and they said they'd walked there from the party house.

How they could calmly lie and pretend their child hadn't just been lost to drown in the creek is beyond me, though.

LovelyPigeon
12-07-2004, 11:07 PM
I did find out tonight that she has worked at our local Cracker Barrel, but I don't know in what capacity.

I also heard rumor about recent domestic violence in the Gray household, but don't know if that's rumor only or factual.

Casshew
12-07-2004, 11:17 PM
Okay so perhaps they had a prior encounter with the police and maybe they were warned that they could lose their child if they didn't smarten up.

If the story is true about losing katie accidently in the flood it could make me understand a little better why they were afraid to call the police - thinking they would be suspected, so they came up with that lie and then later when it all hit them they told the truth to their friends who called the Polce.

I still can't grasp how they would be calm enough to think of themselves before their child though... unless they were drunk or on drugs.

Anything could have happened to Katie, I wonder if they used tracking dogs?

LovelyPigeon
12-07-2004, 11:30 PM
Trailing dogs and cadaver dogs have been used. A fresh crew of dogs will be used tomorrow but I don't know what kind of dogs they are. The river is rising toward flood stage and that backs up water into the creek again.

I don't know that the domestic violence was handled by police.

The calmness displayed in front of their friends immediately following their child's loss is what really blows my mind. And the concocted story about Katie at a babysitter.

tennessee
12-07-2004, 11:36 PM
When I first saw this news story I was so saddened and felt so bad for the parents. Flash floods do happen and I could just see them losing the grip on her seat. However, the more that I read here, the madder I am getting. This story just doesn't add up.

My local station hasn't had any updates and I really appreciate you keeping us up to date.

Amore68
12-08-2004, 09:55 AM
Something tells me that the father did most of the talking to the "friends". I have a feeling that he might have done something and was forcing her to cover it up. I would feel tremendous guilt if something happened to one of my children and I didn't or couldn't do anything about it. It sounds like there was probably domestic violence whether the police were called or not.

WasBlind
12-08-2004, 10:46 AM
I would like for everyone who reads this to stop and say a prayer for Katie.

Prayer is SO powerful!

I know, I was healed of blindness. You only have to be healed of blindness once to know the power of prayer.

None of us knows what happened, but we should not assume anything.
Let's pray for the child, that she is found, and soon.

With love and HOPE for Katie, Lanie

KOOL LOOK
12-08-2004, 11:12 AM
More likely than not, Katie is probably in the care and comfort of our Heavenly Father. Reading the details given in these threads, causes one to imagine the worst case scenerios.

I pray for Katie, that her body will be found and placed in a permanent honorable resting place. I pray the Lord will take this situation and have his will in the lives of those involved.

This is so heart breaking. I honor Katie this day.

LovelyPigeon
12-08-2004, 01:31 PM
McCracken Commonwealth Attorney Tim Kaltenback says no body and no contradictory evidence means he has to assume the parents are telling the truth. No case has yet been presented to the district attorney by LE for consideration to file charges.

The search continues for 2 reasons, according to Sheriff Augustus: to be able to give Katie "a proper burial", and because he believes Katie's body "is going to tell the story".

Sandy Gray has talked to police twice--right after the 911 call and yesterday. Sheriff Augustus says her statements were "mostly consistent". Gray indicated yesterday that she does not want to talk to LE anymore.

Six cadaver dogs are searching today for 10-month old Katie, with divers standing by if a scent is found.

--summarized from the Paducah Sun "No body means no charges for infant's disappearance" 12/8/04

Hundreds of manhours-- and doghours-- have already been put forth in searches, and it looks like searching will continue for a while yet.

LovelyPigeon
12-09-2004, 12:17 PM
Finding Body Key to Katie Gray Answers
DAY 9 OF THE SEARCH
Anna Prendergast
Thursday, December 09, 2004

Thursday will be Day 9 in the investigation of what happened to the Lone Oak infant missing and presumed to be dead, although the McCracken County Sheriff's Department continues to call it a missing person case.

Dogs specially trained to find bodies, boats and four-wheelers could be seen combing the banks of Massac Creek.

Sources say investigators have little evidence and prosecutors are moving slowly, fearful they might charge the parents with a lesser offense like Reckless Negligence and then be precluded from increasing the charges if, ultimately the parents are found to have a larger role in the case then they have suggested to police. --- >>

http://www.wpsdtv.com/articles/stories/public/200412/09/010A_local_news.html

The search goes on.

amandab
12-09-2004, 01:51 PM
LP - thanks so much for keeping this updated. :)

-Amanda

Casshew
12-09-2004, 07:44 PM
They really need a break in the case soon... at least they are not giving up and are still out there looking every day.

Anyword on the parents situation? I wonder how the community is embracing them or treating them since the news came out about their odd behavior the night Katie was lost.

LovelyPigeon
12-10-2004, 07:39 PM
The search is again suspended because of high and rising water. It may be January before the search can continue in and beside the creek.

I don't know how the community is embracing or treating the Grays. Everyone in the area that I've talked to about Katie's disappearance thinks the situation and circumstances are highly suspicious.

LE is seeking medical records for both Katie and her mother Sandy.

LovelyPigeon
12-11-2004, 12:21 PM
Katie Gray's Mother Speaks Out
Written by: Anna Prendergast
Friday, December 10, 2004

For the first time Katie Gray's mother, Sandy talks with News Channel Six. She says she checked into Lourdes Hospital the night Katie disappeared because she says, " I wanted to kill myself after Katie fell into the creek." Sandy also said she had no comment when asked why she didn't call 911 right after Katie disappeared.

Today McCracken County Commonwealth attorney, Tim Kaltenbach presented the Grand Jury with both Katie and Sandy's medical files. He says in past cases medical files have been used to identify a body, and to find out what patients have said to doctors. --->>

http://www.wpsdtv.com/articles/stories/public/200412/10/00yD_local_news.html

I don't understand about the medical files and the grand jury. The DA presented the files to the jurors so surely he knew what the files contain...or were only the jurors allowed to actually see the contents because of confidentiality rules? The article makes it sound as if confidentiality of doctor/patient can be gotten around by using a grand jury.

Sandy Gray's comments, unless there are much more to her comments than reported, sound more concerned with herself than with her baby. What good reason can there be not to call 911 immediately?

LovelyPigeon
12-13-2004, 06:43 PM
Katie's mother was arrested at 1am Sunday morning for DUI, after driving her car into a stop sign.

This is Gray's third D-U-I offense and she is being held on a $2,600 dollar bond. Her arraignment is set for December 21st. - http://www.wpsdtv.com/articles/stories/public/200412/12/00yO_local_news.html

Can't help now but wonder if alcohol wasn't a factor in Katie's disappearance.

dannyodie
12-13-2004, 07:00 PM
with the recent history of her dui It wouldn't surprise me that maybe she was driving while under the influence of alcohol and drove into the rising creek water either way what a tradegy a young life was lost because of irresponsible adults, so many families are effected by there careless actions...

Casshew
12-13-2004, 07:06 PM
There is already a grand jury? isn't this all moving very quickly?

LovelyPigeon
12-14-2004, 02:06 AM
There is always a grand jury in Kentucky. This grand jury wasn't called just for the Gray case. The standing general grand jury may be asked to consider whether charges more serious than negligence could be filed against either or both parents.

There've been no media reports about alcohol use on the night that Katie is supposed to have been lost in the creek waters, but several hours went by between the time the Grays say Katie was swept away in the creek and the time the 911 call went out. Time to sober up?

My heart breaks for Katie, who is out there somewhere, and for her grandparents who are in great emotional pain over her loss.

lisag
12-14-2004, 09:17 AM
I really hope they find this little angel soon.
I too wonder if alcohol wasn't a factor in her disappearance.

The fact that they didn't call 911, that they lied to their friends about where Katie was and that they stopped for cigarettes is all highly suspicious to me.
This doesn't sound liek your run of the mill accident here.. Something happened out there, more than the parents are saying.

Arielle
12-14-2004, 05:11 PM
Yep, I knew it was a girl but for some reason used "him" throughout my entire post....LOL....I must have been mentally picturing my son in the baby seat while I was trying to think about whether I would have taken the car seat out of the vehicle with a child in it or if I would have taken the child out in my arms. I think I would have gotten by baby out and left the car seat behind in the vehicle.


I haven't read through this entire thread yet, but I did have a comment here. The baby is only 10 months old and therefore still in an infant car seat. Many of these are designed to be easily removed and used as a carrier for the baby. Mine was that way. It would have been much faster for me to remove the whole seat (push only one button and it pops right out) than to try to remove the baby. To me, this is entirely plausible.

Mare
12-16-2004, 11:41 AM
bump...I keep checking and hoping for some news...

lisag
12-16-2004, 12:34 PM
I haven't read through this entire thread yet, but I did have a comment here. The baby is only 10 months old and therefore still in an infant car seat. Many of these are designed to be easily removed and used as a carrier for the baby. Mine was that way. It would have been much faster for me to remove the whole seat (push only one button and it pops right out) than to try to remove the baby. To me, this is entirely plausible.

Not all 10month old babies would still be in the infant carrier/car seat. I took my little guy out of the carrier and used a rear facing car seat (the type that is later used as a front facing car seat) at about 7 months old. It was just getting to dang difficult to carry him in the carrier.

LovelyPigeon
12-16-2004, 06:33 PM
Kentucky - The Search for Katie Gray Still on Hold
Staff Report
Wednesday, December 15, 2004

The search for ten month old Katie Gray is still on hold. Katie disappeared more than two weeks ago when her parents' SUV stalled in Massac Creek in West Paducah.

Katie's father says the baby was in her car seat and slipped out of his hands as he was trying to get out of the creek. Detective Tom Emory from the McCracken County Sheriff's Department says the search for Katie will most likely resume next week. It was originally put on hold because of the high water levels in the Massac Creek. Katie's mother, Sandy Gray, is still in the McCracken County Jail with her third driving under the influence charge. - http://www.wpsdtv.com/articles/stories/public/200412/15/0ytt_local_news.html

LovelyPigeon
12-16-2004, 06:41 PM
I have not read the exact kind of car seat Katie was supposed to be in. I haven't read whether the Grays said the seat was strapped in with a car seat, either.

I do know the vehicle didn't belong to them--they were allegedly taking it for a late night "test drive"-- so the arrangement mightn't have been the same as if it had been their own car, one regularly driven with Katie in the car seat. The seat might have just been sitting on the seat, or even held in mother's lap, rather than strapped in the back seat with the adult seat belt.

The weather has been mild this fall, but the last week it's been cold and falling colder. Sunday's high is only predicted at 27 degrees. Miserable conditions for searching, but there will be searchers, regardless.

TisHerself
12-16-2004, 10:48 PM
They were probably drunk when it happened and needed time to sober up before calling police.

LovelyPigeon
12-16-2004, 11:05 PM
The Grays showed up at their friends' house 30-45 minutes after they say Katie was lost in the creek, but I've not read anything about whether alcohol was smelled on them or not. It was 2 1/2 hours later that the Grays were first confronted face-to-face by police, and again, no mention of alcohol.

Sandy Gray's 3rd DUI does make it more likely IMO that alcohol was a factor, though.

LovelyPigeon
12-18-2004, 09:56 PM
From News Channel 6, Paducah, hurry up and wait:

Kentucky - Search Still on Hold For Missing Baby Katie Gray
Staff Report
Friday, December 17, 2004
The McCracken County Sheriff's Department says it hopes to resume the search for ten-month-old Katie Gray next week. Katie Gray is the baby that allegedly washed away in Massac Creek in West Paducah over two weeks ago. Her parents say they accidentally let go of the baby when their S.U.V. stalled in the middle of the creek. The search has been suspended because of the high water levels. Friday the Sheriff's Department said the water level is going down. Katie's mother, Sandy Gray, is still in the McCracken County Jail awaiting her preliminary hearing on December 21st for her third D.U.I. charge.

Rag Doll 02
12-19-2004, 04:55 AM
Please keep us posted on this.....

Fran Bancroft
12-19-2004, 05:09 AM
There is always a grand jury in Kentucky. Yep! That's the truth...and they don't tend to be very compassionate.

Maybe So
12-20-2004, 10:41 AM
I haven't read through this entire thread yet, but I did have a comment here. The baby is only 10 months old and therefore still in an infant car seat. Many of these are designed to be easily removed and used as a carrier for the baby. Mine was that way. It would have been much faster for me to remove the whole seat (push only one button and it pops right out) than to try to remove the baby. To me, this is entirely plausible.

10 months old is sort of old for being in an infant carrier with handles any more...and any other kind of car seat would be pretty cumbersome to carry. Much easier to hold the child in my arms or on my hip at that point.

I don't think I have ever seen a child as large as a 10 month old fit into an infant carrier....

tybee204
12-20-2004, 10:49 AM
This is an insane amount of time to wait to look for this baby. It just dosent make sense to me. Im begining to think that authorities dont really think the baby was in the creek.

Arielle
12-20-2004, 11:32 AM
10 months old is sort of old for being in an infant carrier with handles any more...and any other kind of car seat would be pretty cumbersome to carry. Much easier to hold the child in my arms or on my hip at that point.

I don't think I have ever seen a child as large as a 10 month old fit into an infant carrier....

Mine stayed in her infant carrier until 10months old and she is/was large for her age. At that point, her little legs were scrunched up into the carrier because she was too big for it so we switched to a regular car seat. But based on my personal experience, Katie could have still been in one. Yes, its heavy and cumbersome to carry, but for a sleeping child, much easier than trying to pick her up out of the seat and keep her asleep. Supposedly the whole point of the drive was to get Katie to go to sleep.

LovelyPigeon
12-20-2004, 08:42 PM
tybee, the police and volunteers have searched since that first night. Only flooded creek and surrounding areas have prevented further searching. Searches will resume when conditions make it possible. We're expecting 6-8 inches of snow Wednesday, so that will add to wet conditions.

But from what I hear locally, you're right that most LE think the baby was never in the creek. Nevertheless, the search at and around the creek will continue until all hope is lost of finding Katie thereabouts.

Arielle, the reason stated by the Grays for going "for a ride" on that night was to "test drive" the vehicle Gray said he'd done repairs on. He just happened to take Katie and her mother along--into a low area, off road, in the pouring rain, across an already swollen and still rising creek.

CaliKid
12-22-2004, 08:12 PM
I've read all the posts and this just seems really suspicious. I'm wondering if LE has the clothes the parents were wearing that night and have checked out the vehicle for bloodstains.

LovelyPigeon
12-22-2004, 09:09 PM
CaliKid, the police were waiting for the car to dry out before checking it forensically. It had been 3/4 underwater when towed from the stream and the interior was soaked. I haven't heard any results from the examination, though, which has surely taken place by now.

There's also been no information in the media about whether the parents turned over the clothes they had been wearing when the car stalled in the creek. I'm sure they had changed clothes when they returned to their friends' house 2 hours later and the friends called 911.

LovelyPigeon
12-22-2004, 09:16 PM
Kentucky: Missing Baby's Mother Pleads Guilty to DUI Charge
Staff Report
Tuesday, December 21, 2004

The mother of missing ten month old Katie Gray in court Tuesday, pleading guilty on her third driving under the influence charge. McCracken County Judge Bard Brian is verifying Gray's employment this afternoon and will decide if Gray can serve her six months in jail on the weekends. Gray was arrested December 12th, after she drove off the road and hit a stop sign. Paducah Police say she failed three field sobriety tests before she was arrested.

The McCracken County Sheriff's Department is not searching for Baby Katie this week. - http://www.wpsdtv.com/articles/stories/public/200412/21/00zA_local_news.html

Casshew
12-23-2004, 07:36 PM
Poor little baby has not been found yet :( out there alone in the cold.

TisHerself
12-23-2004, 07:54 PM
LP big city gal here so not familiar with creeks. Was there no water when he first went across and then when police went back it was 3/4 submerged because of the rain? I,m not understanding why he would drive in a creek with water in it in the first place. Unless that is something you do where you live I don't know.

LovelyPigeon
12-23-2004, 11:19 PM
This creek, like others around here, is wide with a sandy bottom and is very shallow during periods when there isn't heavy rain. Creeks run across farm land in some areas and since there're wide and shallow, farmers and hunters regularly cross them on vehicles (trucks, tractors, 4-wheelers) in the same spots. When it's wet weather fall and winter the creeks fill with water and even flood out of the banks when there's lot of rain.

There was water flowing in the creek when the Grays first went across it that night. They said they parked for 15 minutes or so and listened to the water of the creek rushing along. They also said they didn't realize the water was rising as fast as it was when they attempted to re-cross.

What they did was either terribly dumb or criminal.

Hours went by before the police/fire departments were called and arrived at the scene. The Grays said they lost Katie about 10:30 but 911 wasn't called until 1 a.m. I don't know how much the creek rose during those hours but it was several feet deep in rushing water by midnight.

TisHerself
12-24-2004, 12:51 AM
Thank you LP that helps me understand better. Thier whole story sounds way off to me, even if they did wait 15mins the water would have to be moving really fast for Riley to get swept away. I can tell you if it were me and my child were in that creek I would no doubt have drowned too. I would not have left till I found her. I don't believe she is in the creek either poor baby.

MERRY CHRISTMAS

LovelyPigeon
12-30-2004, 11:49 AM
Dec 30
Police suspended the search two weeks ago because of high water levels. Wednesday police said they would resume the search soon as long as the weather permits.

Both of Katie's parents were arrested recently. Johnnie Gray was released from jail Tuesday after being charged for driving on a DUI suspended license. Sandy Gray is still in the McCracken County Jail on her third DUI offense. - http://www.wpsdtv.com/articles/stories/public/200412/29/0ztt_local_news.html

LovelyPigeon
12-30-2004, 11:59 AM
I don't know when Johnnie Gray was arrested before being released on Tuesday--he may have been arrested and released the same day. I don't know when his license was suspended for DUI, either.

It looks more and more as if alcohol was a contributing factor to Katie's disappearance.

Our 14-inch snowfall is melting in 50 degree weather, which doesn't make wet conditions any better yet but it is warming up for a weeklong stretch. Rain is predicted for the weekend so the search may still not be resumed until next week.

lisag
12-30-2004, 12:04 PM
I really hope they find this little girl. This is so sad.

NewMom2003
12-30-2004, 12:28 PM
Thanks for all the updates LP. I pray that they find this little girl so that she can have a proper burial. What a horrible tragedy.

englishleigh
12-30-2004, 12:31 PM
I wonder if these parents were drunk that night, which is why they drove into a flood zone and why they weren't able to hold onto their child??? They sound like alcoholics....just horrible!!

TisHerself
12-30-2004, 04:32 PM
Thank you for the updates LP, I'm pretty sure alcohol was involved however this baby died.

Fran Bancroft
12-30-2004, 04:56 PM
I wonder if these parents were drunk that night, which is why they drove into a flood zone and why they weren't able to hold onto their child??? They sound like alcoholics....just horrible!!My thought is that you've hit the nail on the head. Alcoholism and being drunk would explain all of it, sadly.

People just don't realize how horrible the effects of alcohol can be.

LovelyPigeon
12-30-2004, 10:17 PM
The friends that the Grays went to that night said that Johnnie Gray said there were reasons why the Grays hestitated telling the truth about Katie being in the creek and hestitated about calling the police. Maybe alcohol use is the reason. It's no excuse, but it may have been their reason--both had DUI convictions.

englishleigh
12-30-2004, 11:05 PM
The friends that the Grays went to that night said that Johnnie Gray said there were reasons why the Grays hestitated telling the truth about Katie being in the creek and hestitated about calling the police. Maybe alcohol use is the reason. It's no excuse, but it may have been their reason--both had DUI convictions.

If my baby was missing and in a friggin' swollen creek, I wouldn't care about getting into trouble for being drunk...I would be screaming and jumping up and down to tell LE so that they could find her!!!!

LovelyPigeon
12-31-2004, 06:06 PM
Today's Paducah Sun has an article about Johnnie Gray taking a 2nd police polygraph recently (the first was deemed inconclusive), which Gray says shows he has told the truth to police about what happened, that Katie is in the creek, and that nothing was staged.

The sheriff had no comment about the polygraph or results.

LovelyPigeon
12-31-2004, 06:09 PM
englishleigh, I think the same way you do. I can't imagine leaving the creek, lying to friends, going home, then coming back to friends although afraid to call police for my own protection (or that of my spouse). It looks from the information we have as though the parents' own wellbeing was more important to them than their baby daughter's.

TisHerself
12-31-2004, 06:36 PM
Ok so these two losers after thier baby slips out of his hand into the creek. They are both too drunk to save her, but they have enough wits about them to know they have to get sober first before they call police. So they must have discussed this, they go to thier friend's house and neither one mentions thier baby is in the creek. They go the store buy cigs then go home, when did they decide they had better come up with a reason why they would have a missing child?:waitasec:

Love_Mama
12-31-2004, 08:25 PM
I'm coming into this thread real late but it looks to me..that after having read all the posts that both parents are alcholics......they drink every single day and they drink alot. Anyone who's had 3 DUI's......is a serious 'drunk' However, don't think this mean's that they meant to kill their daughter......which makes this so tragic! I'm thinking they can't even remember much of what happened. What a horrible story.
Thanks for posting LP. I guess this is why people say how many lives are affected by alcholics. It's horrible. What a beautiful child.

xxxxxxxxoooooooo
Happy New Year Everyone.......
mama

TisHerself
01-01-2005, 06:14 PM
These two were probably drinking but they know exactly what happened to Katie. There is no way two people in an alcoholic blackout ( they don't remember what happened) can stick to the same story. Before they got to thier friends house they both agreed on a story,they did not mention she was in the creek. They were not that drunk, and something is very wrong here with the way that baby died.

LovelyPigeon
01-01-2005, 08:46 PM
I'm no believer in polygraphs, and I don't think Gray is off the hook by reason of passing one (if he actually did "pass" in the judgement of the administrator) but meantime it makes it difficult for LE to do anything else but search the creek area below where the car became stuck.

Maybe these parents were intoxicated and irresponsible which resulted in their child's death. That won't make them innocent but it might make them responsible for an avoidable death rather than for a murder.

It's so wet and muddy here now, with water standing everywhere. The weather was warm today--up to almost 70 degrees as opposed to -1 a week ago!--but I don't conditions are yet where the search can continue.

Katie is out there somewhere, and it breaks my heart that she isn't found-- no matter how she became lost or how she died. Until she's found it seems unlikely any charges will be filed relating to her death.

TisHerself
01-02-2005, 12:36 AM
I just keep praying they will find her. I hope the weather breaks for them.

Casshew
01-07-2005, 09:11 AM
Any updates on katie?

LovelyPigeon
01-12-2005, 09:47 AM
Winter here is very wet--it either rains or it snows. The river is presently at flood stage, due to rain and melting snow upstream, north of Kentucky. Some creeks are flooded and some farmland is under water. It won't be "dry" for several months if typical weather patterns hold.

The search is suspended until weather conditions allow, and that could be late spring.

LovelyPigeon
01-24-2005, 10:30 PM
Memorial service held for baby Katie:

http://www.wpsdtv.com/articles/stories/public/200501/23/00Cl_local_news.html

Casshew
01-24-2005, 10:33 PM
Her father, Johnnie Gray, wrote a poem for his daughter that was read at the memorial. Pastor Mike Moynahan recited,

"One day this nightmare will be in the past and reunite us together at last."

alpharee
01-26-2005, 10:02 AM
Her father, Johnnie Gray, wrote a poem for his daughter that was read at the memorial. Pastor Mike Moynahan recited,

"One day this nightmare will be in the past and reunite us together at last."



I see he's very talented..... :rolleyes:
I just can't but think they either by neglect due to alcohol or criminally did something to Katie.

LovelyPigeon
02-15-2005, 05:08 PM
Today's Paducah Sun and Channel 6 News report that the search for Katie may resume this weekend, if conditions in the creek are favorable. Sandbars, new and old, in the vicinity of where Katie was said to have been dropped in the water, will be dug up when the water level drops enough to make the sandbars accessible. (It's supposed to rain, beginning tomorrow, through the weekend, so the search may have to be postponed once again.)

McCracken County Coroner Dan Sims says conditions are getting better for a search -- Sims also says not a day goes by that he doesn't think about Katie Gray. "She doesn't deserve to be out there, even though we know it's just a shell that's there. She doesn't deserve it. She deserves proper burial, and not to be in a creek bed" --->>

http://www.wpsdtv.com/articles/stories/public/200502/15/00EM_local_news.html

Coroner Sims seems to be the person directing further searches.

To date neither the McCracken County sheriff or DA have commented on the Grays' claims that they have taken and *passed* polygraphs.

amandab
02-15-2005, 05:10 PM
Thanks for the update LP; I pray Katie is found soon....

LovelyPigeon
02-20-2005, 02:15 AM
Today I drove by the Massac Creek area where Katie was reported lost and saw that searchers are out in force, even a mile or more down creek. The predicted rains didn't happen so far this weekend--just misty and cold--so the creek water level remains down. So sad to think of Katie's body still strapped in that car seat and buried in a sad bar, somewhere...and still not found as yet.

The water level is low now so the dogs searched the sand bars and banks, but they didn't have any luck. McCracken County Coroner Dan Sims says, "We have not recovered anything yet but our cadaver dogs are still showing interest in this area. So it leads us to believe hopefully we're in the right area." Sims also says search crews will return to the waters early next week, if the weather permits. - http://www.wpsdtv.com/articles/stories/public/200502/19/0EOO_local_news.html

partyuv5
02-20-2005, 05:59 AM
God love her. That's all I can say. One day we will all know the truth.

LovelyPigeon
02-20-2005, 11:53 PM
The rains didn't come although it's been misty and damp. I don't know how many hours went into searches this weekend, but searchers were out and heavy equipment was out near the main search site.

There've been no reports of progress on local broadcast news or newspaper. It appears obvious that Katie has not yet been found.

Lady Sleuth
02-21-2005, 12:12 AM
I am beginning to have doubts that Katie was swept away in that creek.

tezi
02-22-2005, 01:31 AM
I am beginning to have doubts that Katie was swept away in that creek.

Lady Sleuth, that thought has crossed my mind many times too. This is so sad.

Prayers for Katie.

Chrystal Newman
02-22-2005, 03:28 AM
This is so sad. This same thing happened down here in Greenup Co. Kentucky not long before this poor baby disappeared. The family drove through a swollen creek and everyone got out the child was older than this baby though i do believe the child was still in a car seat the father got her out and lost her in the water. The fire Dept. we are on as well as all other local dept.s and l.E. searched for days after the water went down a few days the poor baby was found miles down the creek wrapped in a barbed wire fence. She had been swept down the creek and where there was a large bend in the creek she went straight instead of flowing with the creek so she went through a field and the fence stopped. Bles her heart. And alcohol was a factor here her father was intoxicated and he went to the hospital along with other family members because of being wet and weather conditions their body temp. had dropped and the dad had hurt his back (boohoo). Needless to say the mmother returnrd to the search and the dad went to jail.

LovelyPigeon
02-25-2005, 08:44 PM
Hi Chrystal. I'm in Paducah and didn't hear about the child in Greenup County creek. I'd like to read more about that case, especially the recovery. Do you have the child's name so I can find information on line?

LovelyPigeon
02-26-2005, 11:22 AM
Cadaver dogs were used last weekend to search in the creek bed area where Katie supposedly disappeared but obviously Katie is still not found. Today is a beautiful day and as far as I know the search at the creek continues today. The general consensus seems to be that Katie's body must have been buried in the creek bed by the swift water which moved sand and created shifting sandbars.

Chrystal Newman
02-28-2005, 03:53 PM
Hi Chrystal. I'm in Paducah and didn't hear about the child in Greenup County creek. I'd like to read more about that case, especially the recovery. Do you have the child's name so I can find information on line?
LP my p.c. crashed and i have just been back online a couple of days now. I am trying to catch up everything I will contact our Fire Dept. and get information on this little girl. I do know that she went in on route 7 and was found several miles down stream.

jaeger
02-28-2005, 04:45 PM
10 months old is sort of old for being in an infant carrier with handles any more...and any other kind of car seat would be pretty cumbersome to carry. Much easier to hold the child in my arms or on my hip at that point.

I don't think I have ever seen a child as large as a 10 month old fit into an infant carrier....
It's not unheard of. Also, many parents put off buying a larger seat, and continue to use the infant seat long after the child has outgrown it. These people sound like they didn't have a lot of money, so I could see them doing that. If I were trying to escape a flood, and my child were in an infant carrier, I would probably leave her in it. If she were tightly strapped in, I think I'd have a better chance of holding onto the handle of the carrier than holding onto a wet, squirmy baby. So that doesn't strike me odd. But their changing story does - especially the cigarette stop.

Casshew
03-18-2005, 08:59 AM
Any news on the search for Katie?

Maybe So
03-18-2005, 01:08 PM
It's not unheard of. Also, many parents put off buying a larger seat, and continue to use the infant seat long after the child has outgrown it. These people sound like they didn't have a lot of money, so I could see them doing that. If I were trying to escape a flood, and my child were in an infant carrier, I would probably leave her in it. If she were tightly strapped in, I think I'd have a better chance of holding onto the handle of the carrier than holding onto a wet, squirmy baby. So that doesn't strike me odd. But their changing story does - especially the cigarette stop.


It is odd to me though that they can't find Katie. Especially since she was supposedly in a car seat. I can see a body dissapearing but a body in a car seat seems like it would be easier to find. Of course she could have slipped out of the seat....but then wouldn't they still find the car seat somewhere by now?

LovelyPigeon
03-18-2005, 11:39 PM
from http://www.wpsdtv.com/articles/stories/public/200503/08/00GC_local_news.html
Dan Simms, the McCracken County Coroner says the search for Katie will not continue on a regular basis. Instead a scaled down version of the search will take place periodically.

Katie's mother, Sandy Gray is sitting in Ballard county jail tonight on her second driving under the influence charge.

Tom Emory, the lead investigator on the case says Sandy Gray told him she is pregnant with her second child.

I don't know why neither the car seat nor Katie's body have been found. There has been some speculation around here that the seat with her strapped in it could have made it's way down stream all the way to the Ohio River that first night she was reported missing.

CaliKid
03-20-2005, 07:41 AM
I read in our local news that wth all the rain and snow the country has had this winter, they're expecting a lot of flooding in the spring and early summer. That will impede the search and make it that much harder to find Katie.

Casshew
03-20-2005, 10:23 AM
She is pregnant again :rolleyes:

poor katie, I hope they find her remains soon so she can be buried and have a service.

VespaElf
03-20-2005, 11:13 AM
She is pregnant again :rolleyes:


Pregnant and clearly still DRINKING Cass!!


I still find this whole think "hinky"!!!

I too pray the find katie and the TRUTH!

Casshew
03-20-2005, 02:02 PM
If my baby was missing, I don't think I'd be partying and having sex. :silenced: :silenced: :silenced:

Lesleegp
04-12-2005, 01:13 PM
Any news on this case?

Kymistry35
04-25-2005, 08:40 AM
Has there been any new developements in this case?

LovelyPigeon
04-25-2005, 07:56 PM
No news.

LovelyPigeon
05-05-2005, 11:15 AM
Article on the front page of today's Paducah Sun informs that Katie Gray's father, Johnnie, attempted but survived suicide yesterday by setting off 2 "bug bombs" in his apartment. He composed 2 handwritten notes and a video file on his computer, none of which included admission of wrong-doing in Katie's disappearance in Massac Creek. According to police quoted in the paper, the communications described Katie's situation as accidental.

Katie's mother Sandy Gray was not at the apartment because she is in a neighboring county jail serving 100 days for violating a 2002 parole (DUI conviction).

Quoting the Sun quoting county attorney Tim Kaltenbach: "When it becomes clear that they are not going to find the child's body, then we'll take it to a grand jury."

No indication of when or how it will "become clear".

Kymistry35
05-06-2005, 09:20 AM
When I saw that something had been posted, I was hoping that they had found the little angels body and could put her to rest. I hope that they find her soon.

sharon25
05-06-2005, 01:29 PM
out of curiousity, why would you bring a diaper bag with you on a midnight drive to get a baby to sleep?

I've done the driving at night thing with my daughter, but I never brought her diaper bag along with us.

I suppose it could've already been in the car. It just seems like those things were just thrown into the river.

I hope and pray that I am wrong.

and for what it's worth, the woman could've been pregnant during the "accident" right??

LovelyPigeon
05-07-2005, 02:22 PM
Today's Paducah Sun describes a day-long search yesterday in wooded areas adjoining and near the Grays' apartment. There was one cadaver dog and searchers on all-terrain vehicles. Nothing was found, apparently.

The article states that Sheriff Augustus and county coroner Dan Sims say that because there's been no trace of the baby & car seat in the creek that they both "aren't eliminating the possibility that something else happened to her and that her body may be elsewhere".

More from Augustus, quoted in the Sun:
"With all of the debris in the creek, I don't see any way that the car seat could have floated all the way to the Ohio River. We couldn't get through it (the creek) in a boat, so I don't see how the car seat could have gotten through."

Sims is quoted as saying the car seat and body together would have weighed more than 25 pounds, which should have caused the seat to sink very near to where the car seat entered the water.

The creek has been excavated with heavy equipment, though, and no sign of the car seat or the body.

Maybe this is part of the process of "not finding the body" that will lead to a grand jury presentation.

sharon25
05-07-2005, 06:40 PM
Oh god, poor baby.
I hope that if they did do it, and it wasn't an accident
they will tell them where to find her little body.
horrible!
I swear it makes me want to just move away to a secluded island with my little girl!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

TisHerself
05-08-2005, 01:15 AM
LP thanks for the update I keep checking in to see if there is any news on Katie. This is really sad, kinda had my doubts from the beginning that they were telling the truth. I am just praying they find her little body.

mysteriew
05-08-2005, 01:35 AM
out of curiousity, why would you bring a diaper bag with you on a midnight drive to get a baby to sleep?

I've done the driving at night thing with my daughter, but I never brought her diaper bag along with us.

I suppose it could've already been in the car. It just seems like those things were just thrown into the river.

I hope and pray that I am wrong.

and for what it's worth, the woman could've been pregnant during the "accident" right??

I would have taken the diaper bag and probably even a bottle with me, even on a midnight drive to put the baby to sleep.
I was one of those people who worried about being out with the baby and being involved in an accident or the car breaking down so I felt I had to be prepared, just in case. I always took the diaper bag and a bottle with me, when I just had to run to the grocery to pick up one item.

sharon25
05-08-2005, 02:41 AM
I would have taken the diaper bag and probably even a bottle with me, even on a midnight drive to put the baby to sleep.
I was one of those people who worried about being out with the baby and being involved in an accident or the car breaking down so I felt I had to be prepared, just in case. I always took the diaper bag and a bottle with me, when I just had to run to the grocery to pick up one item.
yea, I can see your point.
Whenever I would drive my daughter
around I would really just drive around
the block a few times *lol*.

I think the biggest factor in this case
is the fact that the baby has not been found.
I think that speaks volumes.

CaliKid
06-03-2005, 06:39 AM
I just wish they'd find her, poor little thing. What are the suspicions of LE, or do we know? Do they really believe the parents' story?

LovelyPigeon
06-09-2005, 11:31 AM
Today's paper reports that there is a $2500 reward offered to anyone finding Katie's body.

Also that Katie's mom finished her 100 days in jail for DUI conviction and has just been released.

sharon25
06-09-2005, 12:22 PM
Today's paper reports that there is a $2500 reward offered to anyone finding Katie's body.

Also that Katie's mom finished her 100 days in jail for DUI conviction and has just been released.if they find the body in the river- will we ever know what really happened?
Prayers for this little angel.

Casshew
07-29-2005, 05:48 PM
Has anyone seen any updates on Katie?

pardilia
09-22-2005, 10:44 AM
Any new information?

The only article I found required a paid subscription and the title was:

"Prosecutor gets Katie Gray's file for a review"

fourboys
10-24-2005, 08:38 PM
Katie Gray Case Headed to Grand Jury

Monday, October 24, 2005
By Anna Prendergast

Subpeonas were served on two key investigators in the disappearance of Katie Gray in Massac Creek on Novermber 30, 2004.

Sources tell NewsChannel 6 the Lead Investigator, McCracken County Detective Tom Emery and County Coroner Dan Sims were served with Grand Jury subpeonas on Monday. Commonwealth Attorney Tim Kaltenbach has been reviewing materials from the case for several weeks now.

Katie Gray disappeared 11 months ago. The 10-month-old's parents say she was swept away after their SUV stalled in a rain swollen Massac Creek just west of Paducah. Numerous searches in and along the creek have turned up nothing.

In May, 2004, crews built two levees to hold back the water. They used water pumps to reroute water away from the area where Katie's parents say they dropped her. McCracken County Coroner, Dan Sims, "The first searches there's always been a lot of water in there and we couldn't see the bottom. So, it's not to say we weren't missing something."

http://www.wpsdtv.com/articles/stories/public/200510/24/0aaT_local_news.html

LovelyPigeon
10-25-2005, 03:22 PM
Folks around here are expecting the DA to ask the grand jury for an indictment for some kind of wrongful death charge.

Since extensive searches have turned up no sign of Katie or the car seat, LE is expected to make the case that the Grays have lied about what happened to Katie and where she was last in their possession. If that's the case, the argument will be that because Katie hasn't been found it is evidence that something happened to her other than what the parents have said happened, and that it happened elsewhere than Massac Creek.

Casshew
10-25-2005, 03:29 PM
I was thinking about katie the other day and wondering if there were updates.... thanks for the information.

Jeana (DP)
10-25-2005, 03:35 PM
In May, 2004, crews built two levees to hold back the water. They used water pumps to reroute water away from the area where Katie's parents say they dropped her. McCracken County Coroner, Dan Sims, "The first searches there's always been a lot of water in there and we couldn't see the bottom. So, it's not to say we weren't missing something."

http://www.wpsdtv.com/articles/stories/public/200510/24/0aaT_local_news.html

There's your reasonable doubt. I'd like to hear what else they have on the parents.

LovelyPigeon
10-26-2005, 06:36 PM
Jeana, read back at #22 to see what else police have. The parents initally lied to their friends about what happened, and waited hours to seek help for Katie.

I don't know what else LE might have in the way of evidence.

What I'm thinking is that some tough charges like murder or manslaughter might be filed, then plea bargain offered if the parents cooperate and confess.

These parents aren't stellar quality but I don't know if what happened was an accident they tried to cover up or something else.

fourboys
10-29-2005, 01:36 PM
PADUCAH, Ky. - The parents of a 10-month-old girl who has been missing for 11 months have been charged with the infant's death.

A McCracken County grand jury indicted Johnny and Sandy Gray on charges of second-degree manslaughter in the death of Katie Michelle Gray, who disappeared Nov. 29. The Grays have said they lost their daughter when Johnny Gray could not hang on to the child's baby seat as it was removed from a car that stalled in a flooded Massac Creek.

Investigators have not found Katie's body nor a car seat after searching the creek and the wooded area near the Gray's former apartment.

The Grays also face charges of possession on marijuana, tampering with evidence and leaving the scene of an accident. McCracken Commonwealth Attorney Tim Kaltenbach said arrest warrants have been issued for the Grays, who now live in Tennessee.

According to the manslaughter indictment, the Grays either "wantonly caused the death of Katie Gray or wantonly failed to make a proper effort to prevent the death of Katie Gray."

"It's an awful case that stays with you day and night," McCracken County sheriff's Detective Tom Emery said.

The Grays are scheduled to be arraigned on Dec. 16.

Continued:

http://www.kentucky.com/mld/kentucky/news/state/13030967.htm

Marie
10-29-2005, 06:11 PM
out of curiousity, why would you bring a diaper bag with you on a midnight drive to get a baby to sleep?

I've done the driving at night thing with my daughter, but I never brought her diaper bag along with us.

I suppose it could've already been in the car. It just seems like those things were just thrown into the river.

I hope and pray that I am wrong.

and for what it's worth, the woman could've been pregnant during the "accident" right?? We keep our diaper bag in the car permanently. We only take it out to restock it.

If this wasn't an accident... I wonder what they did do with the carseat? Pretty strange that it also hasn't turned up in the water, something that big.

Casshew
10-29-2005, 06:21 PM
It is strange that the car seat has not shown up somewhere :waitasec:

LovelyPigeon
10-31-2005, 12:56 AM
I'm just back from a football weekend at Auburn, and reading the local paper. As expected by the general public, the Grays were indicted on manslaughter charges.

I don't know how this case will proceed, since general consensus around here is that the sheriff's office has never believed that Katie was dropped in the creek. Will there be plea offerings for lesser charges if the Grays confess and tell LE where the body is?

Otherwise, it would seem that the prosecutor will be pressing in court for charges that aren't generally believed by LE: that Katie was dropped in Massac Creek because her parents were drunk/stoned at the time.

It may get a little complicated unless the parents confess that something happened to Katie, her body inside the car seat was disposed of, and the Massac Creek story hatched to cover the actual circumstances of her death and the location of her body.

Meanwhile, local SAR have no leads on further areas to search. People I know that have been involved in searches in and around the creek say that the car seat could not have traveled downstream into the Ohio River because there is too much obstruction by fallen trees, limbs, brush, and other trash in the creek bed.

LovelyPigeon
11-08-2005, 08:39 PM
According to today's paper, searches have begun again in the Massac Creek area, and some searching in an adjoining county where the mother of Katie has family that has some acreage.

There's a little controversy over who's in charge of searching for Katie now. The sheriff's wife has taken over, or maybe the detective in charge is still in charge.

Right now is the first time since last November that Massac Creek has been dry enough to walk its length to the Ohio River. Searchers have been doing just that, as well as searching the area around the home of the friends where the Grays first went to tell that Katie was missing.

There's been no trace of Katie or the car seat found anywhere.

Casshew
11-08-2005, 08:48 PM
searching in an adjoining county where the mother of Katie has family that has some acreage.

Well thats interesting :waitasec:

Chrystal Newman
11-25-2005, 05:38 AM
Are there anynew updates on this baby? I can't help but sit here and think about all these poor little babies are out there in the cold winter air. I just can't imagine living or not. It's so cols and dark so sad.

LovelyPigeon
12-11-2005, 09:57 PM
There are no updates, but the case will probably go to trial without a confession and plea deal. It will be a first in this county in the past decade that a case goes to trial without a body. Katie is still not found, and no sign of her, either. No body and no car seat...and it's more than a year now.

"In the 8 years I've been here, we've never tried a case without a body" said Chris Hollowell, Assistant McCracken County Commonwealth Attorney.

It will be up to the prosecution to prove that the Gray's knowingly put Katie at risk that night at Massac Creek...and engaged in behavior that ultimately caused their child's death.

LovelyPigeon
01-02-2006, 10:18 PM
Update today is only that no trial date has yet been set.

2nd-degree manslaughter and tampering with physical evidence in the presumed death of baby Katie Gray are the charges.

I still hope for a confession that leads to the recovery of Katie's remains.

Angels_Not_Forgotten
01-02-2006, 11:29 PM
I feel so utterly disguested and outraged at SO many things that have happened. Accidents happen, but what disgusting filthy parents would NOT report their child missing when it happened?! HOW do you stop and buy ciggs? WHY would you have ANOTHER child? WHY are you DRINKING still?

Chrystal Newman
02-07-2006, 10:47 PM
Has any one heard anything about little Katie or her dimwitted parents?

Bobbisangel
02-07-2006, 11:44 PM
Are the parents in jail?

LovelyPigeon
02-08-2006, 11:02 AM
Today's Paducah Sun says there is a pre-trial conference today at 1:30. The Grays' attorney, Mike Ward, will meet with Assistant Commonwealth Attorney Chris Hollowell before that conference to discuss "a possible plea agreement". At the conference there will either be a guilty plea resulting in no trial, or an innocent plea to a trial date set.

In a court document (bill of particulars) filed yesterday, there is an new assertion that the parents returned to their house to smoke marijuana before telling friends that Katie had been swept down the creek hours before. Both parents had marijuana and other drugs in their blood tests done by police after Katie was reported missing by friends of the Grays.

Both parents are in jail awaiting trial, and have been there since early November.

aussiegran
02-08-2006, 06:30 PM
:furious: I dont believe she was swept away in the river .IMO they buried her somewhere and I hope LE gets one of them to turn against the other one.

LovelyPigeon
02-08-2006, 07:41 PM
If she was put somewhere else, I hope one or both parents will admit where so her remains can be located. It just seems impossible that Katie, strapped into a car seat, could not have been found in Massac Creek.

LovelyPigeon
02-08-2006, 08:04 PM
Here's a link to the story on a local tv show's website:
http://www.wpsdtv.com/articles/stories/public/200602/08/0iin_local_news.html

petra
02-08-2006, 08:23 PM
http://www.wpsdtv.com/articles/stories/public/200602/08/0iiq_local_news.html


no plea deal...so case is continued

ETA-they did not plead guilty, so case will go to trial and be moved to different venue. attorney needs more time to review evidence..no date set for trial

LovelyPigeon
02-09-2006, 12:30 PM
The hearing was continued, without a plea or a deal arrived at. The Grays' attorney wants more time to go over the evidence presented by the prosecution before advising either a plea deal or a not-guilty plea. The pre-trial conference was rescheduled for March 31.

The Grays will be in court on Monday, Feb 13, for a bond hearing, asking for a bond reduction. They've been in McCracken county jail since Nov 2.

From today's Paducah Sun:

"The manslaughter charge carries up to 10 years in prison. A second felony charge, tampering with physical evidence, carries up to five years. The couple also faces misdemeanor charges of possession of marijuana and leaving the scene of an accident. Johnnie Gray has a third misdemeanor charge of driving on a suspended license.

But it's Sandy Gray who the potential of spending the most time in prison if convicted. added to her charges was a perisistent felony offender indictment, which carries up to a 20 years in prison. She had a prior drug conviction and probation violation."

If the case goes to trial, Ward says he will ask for a change of venue.

LovelyPigeon
02-14-2006, 04:36 PM
On Monday, Judge Hines refused to reduce bail for Johnnie and Sandy Gray, and would not change the cash bond to a property or surety bond.

Maybe So
02-15-2006, 10:08 AM
Poor baby.

I wonder if they did any inquiries to find out the brand of car seat and then strapped an appropriate size dummy into a duplicate seat and then did tests to see where the car seat would travel to? If they attached a fine line to retrieve it then dropped it from various places near that crossing they could find out if it would simply sink or if it would float and drift for a while. Of course if the creek isn't as strong or as high as it was that night then that might only be of limited help.

Either way something isn't right. A car seat is not going to decompose so it should still be able to be found somewhere, someway, somehow. My guess at this point is that they took her someplace in a totally oposite direction and the creek story was to guide the investigation away from where the body actually is.

LovelyPigeon
04-27-2006, 05:53 PM
Wednesday, April 26, 2006

NewsChannel Six has learned that Katie's parents Johnnie and Sandy Gray have reached a plea agreement.

The Gray's attorney, Mike Ward says Johnnie and Sandy plan on pleading guilty in court Friday.

Katie Gray disappeared more than a year ago when her parents say they accidentally dropped her into Massac Creek. The Gray's were arrested last November and charged with manslaughter.

Mike Ward says the agreement includes a guilty plea to a lesser charge of wreckless homicide, and five years in jail. This is a surprise because originally Ward said his clients had no intention of pleading guilty, he said they were going to trial. -

http://www.wpsdtv.com/articles/stories/public/200604/26/ppll_local_news.html

I was hoping for a full confession by way of plea agreement. It's not clear yet if that will be the case.

Marie
04-27-2006, 05:58 PM
Just 5 years huh? Meanwhile they let Katie's body rot wherever they tossed it. I don't believe for a moment that they accidently dropped her into the river and I doubt LE does either.

LovelyPigeon
05-05-2006, 04:01 PM
Some interesting information in this May 1 article: Grays Plead Guilty to Reckless Homicide
By: Erica Byfield

Here’s the evidence the Commonwealth says could have held up in court against the Grays...First, both Sandy and Johnnie Gray lied to detectives at the beginning of the investigation. Second, the Grays were reckless in the care of Katie, by not notifying authorities of her disappearance until after one in the morning, when the incident happened around ten pm. I also learned each of the Grays did under go a polygraph test and quote "passed with flying colors."

Emery adds after the initial interviews the Grays started to tell a consistent story. "After we found out when this actually did occur after that they were consistent with me their interviews, they didn't change their story, they stayed the same," said Emery.

To prove it investigators did call in experts from across the country. And in the end Kaltenback, Emery and Coroner Dan Sims say it's "likely" Katie gray and her car seat ended up in the Ohio river, about 4 miles away from where she original fell into the water.

Their findings also state with the weather conditions that evening it could have taken somewhere between 44 (minutes) and almost two hours for the her and the car seat to reach the river, just about the time her parents reported her missing. Although they've yet to find Katie, Coroner Dan Sims says he won't stop searching.

The Grays will go before Judge Robert Hines on August 3rd at 1:30 PM for sentencing. If Judges Hines does not impose a stronger sentence they each face five years in jail. - http://www.kfvs12.com/Global/story.asp?S=4836237&nav=8H3x

Sounds as if at least some investigators are convinced that the car seat with Katie strapped into it went downstream Massac Creek, into the Ohio River.

Jeana (DP)
05-05-2006, 04:37 PM
Too bad they won't be able to charge them with anything else when they find her little body.

LovelyPigeon
05-05-2006, 09:37 PM
Too bad they won't be able to charge them with anything else when they find her little body.

And here I thought you were a big believer in polygraphs!

IMO it will be miraculous if her body strapped into the car seat is found in the Ohio River.

kidzndogznme
05-27-2006, 11:19 PM
Anything new with this case?????

LovelyPigeon
08-03-2006, 09:11 AM
I think they'll receive the maximum sentence, and will be out in half the time.

Baby Katie Gray's Parents to Be Sentenced Thursday
Wednesday, August 02, 2006

Nearly two years ago, Sandy and Johnnie Gray told police their SUV stalled in flooded Massac Creek. Johnnie Gray says his daughter, ten-month-old Katie, was swept away in the rushing water.

The Army Corps of Engineers says the night baby Katie's parents say they dropped her in Massac Creek, the water was moving eight feet per second, and Katie could have made it to the Ohio river very quickly.

Crews tirelessly searched the creek, by land using ATVs and cadaver dogs; by water using boats and dive teams. They even used heavy machinery to try and dig up answers, but no sign of Katie was ever found. --->>

Lead Detective, Tom Emery says he's heard all kinds of theories. But, he never could find any hard evidence to discount the Gray's story. "I couldn't find anything. They stuck with their story. All I can do is go by fact, not emotion." --->>

Johnnie and Sandy Gray were initially charged with manslaughter. Sandy faced up to twenty years in prison and Johnnie, fifteen. But, they took a deal and pleaded guilty to reckless homicide, a charge that carries up to five years in prison. --->>

http://www.wpsdtv.com/articles/stories/public/200608/02/BBKK_local_news.html

Mygirlsadie
08-03-2006, 09:30 AM
5 years is all a beautiful innocent little tiny life is worth now-a-days huh? :( I guess if its any consulation at least we know they will get life in HELL :furious:

Bobbisangel
08-04-2006, 08:56 AM
I think they'll receive the maximum sentence, and will be out in half the time.

Baby Katie Gray's Parents to Be Sentenced Thursday
Wednesday, August 02, 2006

Nearly two years ago, Sandy and Johnnie Gray told police their SUV stalled in flooded Massac Creek. Johnnie Gray says his daughter, ten-month-old Katie, was swept away in the rushing water.

The Army Corps of Engineers says the night baby Katie's parents say they dropped her in Massac Creek, the water was moving eight feet per second, and Katie could have made it to the Ohio river very quickly.

Crews tirelessly searched the creek, by land using ATVs and cadaver dogs; by water using boats and dive teams. They even used heavy machinery to try and dig up answers, but no sign of Katie was ever found. --->>

Lead Detective, Tom Emery says he's heard all kinds of theories. But, he never could find any hard evidence to discount the Gray's story. "I couldn't find anything. They stuck with their story. All I can do is go by fact, not emotion." --->>

Johnnie and Sandy Gray were initially charged with manslaughter. Sandy faced up to twenty years in prison and Johnnie, fifteen. But, they took a deal and pleaded guilty to reckless homicide, a charge that carries up to five years in prison. --->>

http://www.wpsdtv.com/articles/stories/public/200608/02/BBKK_local_news.html



I really hate this. Why do these azzholes always offer plea deals so that people will plead guilty so there will be no TRIAL!!! There is no reason that anyone who murders another person regardless of the age should get a deal and serve a handful of years in prison. It just isn't right. I get so angry that I scare myself :sick: The punishment should fit the crime and there shouldn't be any darn "time off for good behavior" either. We wonder why our crime rate is so darn high...it's because people are just tapped on the hand and let go. Crime will never slow down until we stop pussy footing around with these criminals. Other countrys have strict laws and they don't have near the crime that we do. When are the darn big wigs going to GET IT!!! If we need more prisons to hold these animals for a longer period of time then build the darn things. It might help if they would build one prison for the perverts and house them all together...forever...on some island. Build one strictly for murderers and keep them all together. Make sure they serve ALL of their time and make it LONG sentences. It doesn't take a genius to figure some of this stuff out.
Sorry for the rant but dam this is just so wrong.

kidzndogznme
08-04-2006, 11:57 AM
Didn't I read somewhere that the mother was pregnant again when she was arrested? Whatever happened with that????
Does anyone from the area where this crime happened know the parents at all? I have read the thread concerning how the river runs, etc. but I wonder what the parents are really like. I don't know what it is but something about the friends who turned the parents in just doesn't set well with me. I don't mean the friends are guilty but they just seem to have their own motives for coming forward. I just got a greasy feeling when I read about the friends.

LovelyPigeon
08-04-2006, 02:10 PM
The parents were both sentenced to 5 years in prison for reckless homicide. No probation.

http://www.wpsdtv.com/articles/stories/public/200608/03/BBYY_local_news.html

LovelyPigeon
08-04-2006, 02:20 PM
I don't mean the friends are guilty but they just seem to have their own motives for coming forward. I just got a greasy feeling when I read about the friends.

I think you could do better to reserve your greasy feelings for the parents. They are the ones who were using drugs and alcohol, who dropped Katie in the creek (or whatever else may have happened), who then failed to report that she was missing for several hours.

As soon as the Grays admitted to the friends that Katie was missing in the flooded creek waters, the friends called 911. The friends (or probably more accurately, former friends) have no involvement whatsoever with Katie missing.

I don't know anyone here who knows either of the Grays but I know some of the SAR and firefighters who were called out that night to search for Katie, and who continued to search for weeks.

Family members have been caring for the Grays' youngest child, born after Katie disappeared.

Bobbisangel
08-05-2006, 05:03 AM
I can't imagine my baby falling into the water and my not being able to find her and my not screaming for LE right away. Personally I don't think that is what happened to Katy or if it was maybe the parents were so high that they didn't want any contact with LE until they came down.

The friends did the right thing by calling 911. I would have done the same exact thing. I would have been horrified to know that the baby had disappeared a long time before they came to my house and they hadn't called 911. I think I would have had a hard time beliving what I was hearing.

I wonder what really happened to sweet baby Katie? When people use drugs it is hard to tell what might have happened and they might not have even realized it at the time. Later they may have realized that the baby was dead and paniced and had to come up with a story...like her falling into the water.

Regardless, the value of that baby's life is way over 5 lousy years. What a darn shame. Will they get the child that was born after Katie died when they get out of prison?

Mygirlsadie
08-05-2006, 07:38 AM
Bobbisangel I agree with you I don't understand why someone who murders someone else has any rights at all. I feel that once you commit a crime so heinous you just forfeited all your rights. There is no plea deal no trial no nothing, its death penalty ...an eye for an eye!




I really hate this. Why do these azzholes always offer plea deals so that people will plead guilty so there will be no TRIAL!!! There is no reason that anyone who murders another person regardless of the age should get a deal and serve a handful of years in prison. It just isn't right. I get so angry that I scare myself :sick: The punishment should fit the crime and there shouldn't be any darn "time off for good behavior" either. We wonder why our crime rate is so darn high...it's because people are just tapped on the hand and let go. Crime will never slow down until we stop pussy footing around with these criminals. Other countrys have strict laws and they don't have near the crime that we do. When are the darn big wigs going to GET IT!!! If we need more prisons to hold these animals for a longer period of time then build the darn things. It might help if they would build one prison for the perverts and house them all together...forever...on some island. Build one strictly for murderers and keep them all together. Make sure they serve ALL of their time and make it LONG sentences. It doesn't take a genius to figure some of this stuff out.
Sorry for the rant but dam this is just so wrong.

LovelyPigeon
08-05-2006, 11:21 AM
I don't understand why someone who murders someone else has any rights at all.

There was no finding of murder in this case. There was no evidence except for the words of the parents. If you're a believer in polygraphs, you'll be interested to know that both parents 'passed' on their story of accidentally dropping Katie into the creek.

None of it spells justice for Katie, but the situation legally worked out in the only way possible it seems to me.

kidzndogznme
08-06-2006, 11:24 AM
I didn't mean to sound as though I think the "friends" had any part in Katie's disappearance. I don't think they did at all. Just that they didn't strike me as reliable witnesses. The fact that the father passed his polygraph test makes me think he actually believes his own story. Whether that is because it is really the truth or because he was so high at the time of the "accident" that he can't recall what may have happened may never be known. But you are all right in that if one of my kids fell into a river, I would have gone hoarse screaming for help. Probably my husband would have stayed to search for the child as he is a much stronger swimmer than I am and I would have raced for the nearest phone/house for help. There is no way in hell we would have straggled our way to a friend's house to report the incident 3 hours later and then stopped for smokes, yada yada. Forget any further pregnancies because if I believed my child had died, I would have hung myself from the nearest tree. I just don't understand this case. Weird people, strange circumstances. I don't understand the lack of a body and carseat. A little tiny body that isn't found is one thing. But why can't they find the carseat. Let's just say the parents were sick of having a kid. They decide to fake an accident and drive out to the swollen creek with the intention of getting rid of their "wet blanket". They kill and bury the body on the land that is past the creek that belongs/belonged to a member of the family. Wouldn't they at least be smart enough to go drop the carseat into the creek to make their story believable? And if that is what happened, how come the carseat hasn't shown up? Even if it floated into the Ohio, wouldn't it have shown up by now? At least part of the material????
How old is their surviving child?

Mygirlsadie
08-06-2006, 02:56 PM
I'm not really sure where I stand on polygraphs. I think if you truely are in denial and make yourself believe something to be true then you can outsmart the polygraphs. There may have been no finding of murder but i'm sure these parents know exactly what happened to their baby and by the way they acted after the incident before the 911 call, it just screams guilty as sin to me.




There was no finding of murder in this case. There was no evidence except for the words of the parents. If you're a believer in polygraphs, you'll be interested to know that both parents 'passed' on their story of accidentally dropping Katie into the creek.

None of it spells justice for Katie, but the situation legally worked out in the only way possible it seems to me.

LovelyPigeon
08-08-2006, 12:35 AM
Even if it floated into the Ohio, wouldn't it have shown up by now? At least part of the material????
The car seat wouldn't haven't floated. It would have tumbled on the bottom of the creek, pushed by the current. The corps of engineers believes a car seat with a child strapped in would have been rolled and tumbled downsteam and into the Ohio River in just a few minutes. Searchers, though, think that debris in the creek (tree limbs and trunks, etc) would have impeded the car seat and probably kept it from getting all the way downstream and into the river.


How old is their surviving child?

Katie's mother, Sandy Gray, has a son now 19, by a previous marriage. The youngest child of Sandy and Johnnie Gray was born in mid-October 2005, so she'd be 10 months old now. She was placed in the care of child services after their arrest last November. I think she was subsequently placed with family of the Grays.

I had hoped that a plea agreement would result in a confession from the parents that Katie could be found elsewhere than the creek. That didn't happen, though. Local law enforcement seems to be divided on whether they believe the Grays have told the truth about what happened to Katie, or whether they've continued to conceal the truth.

LovelyPigeon
01-28-2007, 04:21 PM
Board turns down parole for missing infant's mother
The mother of an infant swept away in a creek in 2004 has been denied parole and ordered to serve the rest of her sentence.

The Kentucky Parole Board, without a hearing on Friday, turned down Sandy Gray's request for early release from a five-year prison sentence.

Ten-month-old Katie Gray was swept away after the family drove across Massac Creek, which was swollen due to heavy rains on Nov. 29, 2004. Katie's body has never been found.

Sandy Gray and her husband, Johnnie, pleaded guilty in April to reckless homicide, possession of marijuana, tampering with physical evidence and leaving the scene of an accident.

Johnnie Gray told investigators he lost his grip on Katie's car seat while removing her from the vehicle stalled in the creek. He is eligible for parole next month. -
http://www.courier-journal.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070128/NEWS01/701280489/1008/NEWS01