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Salem
05-01-2012, 10:44 AM
(((how can you put on a case in chief with only one witness?????)))

that is just bizarre!

And for the one witness that is going to tell us she drove her car past the school???? Does she have one of those things on her hood also? For this, Derstine gave up the opportunity to close last? Wow.

Wow.

Salem

~n/t~
05-01-2012, 10:44 AM
Avery Moore ‏ @AveryFreeFMNews
She says she noticed the woman because it was a warm Spring day, was odd that she was wearing a winter coat.

sillybilly
05-01-2012, 10:44 AM
hmmm saw TLM waiting for tori i bet is where this going

And wow one witness and no opening... what a way to start their side hehe

LOL ... maybe Derstine doesn't want to go down in the annals of history as "the great lawyer who got the guilty guy off".

JK ;)

Bravo
05-01-2012, 10:44 AM
If I was on the jury I would be more interested in who is not testifying on his behalf such as his mom etc. I think that is pretty telling in and of itself.

Post of the day!!!!

Sailor Bug
05-01-2012, 10:44 AM
Parents and busses "take turns" leaving the parking lot, it takes time, not unusual.

RaffertyLFP: She said white-coat woman was walking up the sidewalk stern-faced Tori was happy skipping

Wondergirl
05-01-2012, 10:44 AM
10:43
http://a0.twimg.com/profile_images/1862937618/trialavatar_normal.jpg (http://twitter.com/RaffertyLFP)RaffertyLFP:

The woman did not see the white coat woman come out of the school They started to drive away down Fyfe Avenue moving north [via Twitter]

CarrieBean
05-01-2012, 10:44 AM
I sure hope the Crown has looked into this witness's background.

nursebeeme
05-01-2012, 10:45 AM
omgosh... we could actually hear closing arguments today if he only has one witness

Wondergirl
05-01-2012, 10:45 AM
10:44
http://a0.twimg.com/profile_images/1862937618/trialavatar_normal.jpg (http://twitter.com/RaffertyLFP)RaffertyLFP:

She said white-coat woman was walking up the sidewalk stern-faced Tori was happy skipping [via Twitter]

crazyladi
05-01-2012, 10:45 AM
well I am going to say it could have been anyone that walked in with a white coat. no??

roseofsharon
05-01-2012, 10:45 AM
Just MOO, Derstine trying to convince jury that because TLM was so brazen to enter school (if that's true??), that this is why MR thought TLM was babysitting TS.

Flowercb
05-01-2012, 10:45 AM
AveryFreeFMNews McClintic testified she waited by a tree near the road. Witness now saying woman in white jacket went into the school. #Rafferty...robynhood

Maybe the Crown will have an optometrist come in and a psychiatrist to try to disprove poor granny, lol. MOO

Sailor Bug
05-01-2012, 10:46 AM
RaffertyLFP: Woman said white-coated woman was walking briskly = appeared to be on a mission Tor i seemed like normal child

On April 8th, as usual, she went north on fyfe. Saw the woman in white walking on the side walk. Little girl with her was "happy, skipping"

She says the woman in white was "on a mission", little girl was "talking a mile a minute".

The woman was walking briskly. The child "seemed to be happy". Witness assumed they were mother and daughter.

Wondergirl
05-01-2012, 10:46 AM
10:45
http://a0.twimg.com/profile_images/1862937618/trialavatar_normal.jpg (http://twitter.com/RaffertyLFP)RaffertyLFP:

Woman said white-coated woman was walking briskly = appeared to be on a mission. Tori seemed like normal child [via Twitter] http://cdnsl.coveritlive.com/templates/coveritlive/images/icons/fb_share2.png

tmhco
05-01-2012, 10:46 AM
And only Granny saw TLM and Tori? Sad

And a little far fetched, IMO

myzzy
05-01-2012, 10:46 AM
I cant believe there is no video of inside the school with this unless they have it as evidence for the defence. I think in today's techs age we should have all of our schools equipped from every entrance ect

Thinkzerz
05-01-2012, 10:46 AM
I believed from the beginning TS knew TLM. And they way TLM killed TS was like revenge JMO MR knows more and these two need the death penalty. No reason is good enough for me to kill an innocent child!

Sailor Bug
05-01-2012, 10:46 AM
RaffertyLFP: The woman is indicating on aerial photo where she saw the white-coated woman

RaffertyLFP: Woman said white-coated woman was walking briskly = appeared to be on a mission Tor i seemed like normal child

Kamille
05-01-2012, 10:46 AM
Avery Moore ‏ @AveryFreeFMNews
Witness says the kids she was picking up then came out of the school. She drove away.

Steven D'Souza ‏ @cbcsteve
Witness says she did not see woman come out of the school.

And why wasn't this woman a Crown witness? Why wasn't she the one who helped them draw a composite sketch and give a detailed description of the clothing? She claims to have seen her enough.



Not sure this elderly woman's testimony means anything. *scratching head

MOO

Bravo
05-01-2012, 10:47 AM
So this one witness. Grandmama is to prove TLM a Liar????

~n/t~
05-01-2012, 10:47 AM
well I am going to say it could have been anyone that walked in with a white coat. no??

Even if it was TLM, why does it matter? I'm confused????

Sailor Bug
05-01-2012, 10:47 AM
The woman in white had a stern look on her face.

She draws a circle around the area she saw them on a map. North of OSPS, near CCRH.

RaffertyLFP: The grandmother said she was driving slowly when she was the white coat woman on Fyfe very confident it was same woman [via Twitter]

Wondergirl
05-01-2012, 10:47 AM
Cristina Tenaglia‏@cristina_CHCHTV (Tenaglia‏@cristina_CHCHTV)

Witness says she thought woman in white coat was 'Tori's Mom.' #Rafferty (https://twitter.com/#!/search/%23Rafferty)

Dmman
05-01-2012, 10:47 AM
And for the one witness that is going to tell us she drove her car past the school???? Does she have one of those things on her hood also? For this, Derstine gave up the opportunity to close last? Wow.

Wow.

Salem

I so totally agree!!! We'll never know if who she saw was ever TLM!!

myzzy
05-01-2012, 10:48 AM
I have to tell you when I go into my daughters school they stop any visitor no matter who you are and no matter at what time. This is strange.

I would have thought that also but i am never ID'd to get my daughter who is a bus rider normally so picking her up is abnormal. I dont know if they have a good memory as my daughter is outgoing and they know her hehe

Wondergirl
05-01-2012, 10:48 AM
.James Armstrong‏@jamesarmstrong7

Witness says girl was "like any school child coming out f school. Just talking and smiling and laughing" #rafferty (https://twitter.com/#!/search/%23rafferty)

~n/t~
05-01-2012, 10:48 AM
So this one witness. Grandmama is to prove TLM a Liar????

Exactly my thought. Whoa Bombshell! TLM lies.

Wondergirl
05-01-2012, 10:48 AM
Nil Köksal‏@nilkoksalcbc (Köksal‏@nilkoksalcbc)

Witness says #ToriStafford (https://twitter.com/#!/search/%23ToriStafford) seemed happy.talking,smiling like any child after school.thought woman w/her was mother.

(https://twitter.com/#)

~n/t~
05-01-2012, 10:49 AM
Nil Köksal ‏ @nilkoksalcbc
Witness says #ToriStafford seemed happy.talking,smiling like any child after school.thought woman w/her was mother



Avery Moore ‏ @AveryFreeFMNews
Witness says she saw the same woman walking with a girl up the street. She said she was stern-faced, little girl was skipping.

crazyladi
05-01-2012, 10:49 AM
So why would Tori be Skipping and smiling if she didnt know this person?

Wondergirl
05-01-2012, 10:49 AM
Linda Nguyen‏@LindaNguyenPN (Nguyen‏@LindaNguyenPN)

She says the woman looked stern. She was walking briskly and the girl was trying to keep up #toristafford (https://twitter.com/#!/search/%23toristafford) #rafferty (https://twitter.com/#!/search/%23rafferty)

(https://twitter.com/#)

~n/t~
05-01-2012, 10:49 AM
Steven D'Souza ‏ @cbcsteve
Witness describes student walking with woman as “just talking and smiling and laughing, like a normal child after school….” #sl

Steven D'Souza ‏ @cbcsteve
Witness says she saw woman in white jacket leaving school with a student. Woman had stern face "seemed like she was on a mission" #sl


Poor Tori :tears:

roseofsharon
05-01-2012, 10:49 AM
Well so far my ears are fine, so I guess no bombshells have gone off!!!

I can't believe this.

MOO

CarrieBean
05-01-2012, 10:49 AM
So this one witness. Grandmama is to prove TLM a Liar????

Of course, now all the evidence that has supported TLM's story means nothing. (insert sarcastic smiley here)

Dmman
05-01-2012, 10:49 AM
Did the witness hear the conversation between TLM & Tori?!?! I just can't believe this weak witness Derstine called!

Wondergirl
05-01-2012, 10:50 AM
10:48
http://a0.twimg.com/profile_images/1862937618/trialavatar_normal.jpg (http://twitter.com/RaffertyLFP)RaffertyLFP:

The grandmother said she was driving slowly when she was the white coat woman on Fyfe very confident it was same woman [via Twitter]


Tuesday May 1, 2012 10:48 RaffertyLFP

10:46
http://a0.twimg.com/profile_images/1862937618/trialavatar_normal.jpg (http://twitter.com/RaffertyLFP)RaffertyLFP:

The woman is indicating on aerial photo where she saw the white-coated woman [via Twitter

Sailor Bug
05-01-2012, 10:50 AM
Witness was "driving slowly" when she saw woman in white. Woman was across the street.

Witness "very confidant" the woman in white at the school and on the sidewalk were the same person.

She noticed the hair. She is a hair dresser.

~n/t~
05-01-2012, 10:50 AM
So why would Tori be Skipping and smiling if she didnt know this person?

TLM told her they were going to go look at puppies. :(

Flowercb
05-01-2012, 10:50 AM
AveryFreeFMNews McClintic testified she waited by a tree near the road. Witness now saying woman in white jacket went into the school. #Rafferty...robynhood

How come I can't see TLM taking that chance. Don't teacher's ask who you are if you are picking up children. And, didn't Tori go back in to get her earings?

roseofsharon
05-01-2012, 10:50 AM
If woman was so stern, why would TS be smiling/skipping?

MOO

Sailor Bug
05-01-2012, 10:51 AM
RaffertyLFP: The grandmom heard about Tori's disappearance on news She watched CASS video and recognized white coat woman She went to police

Witness heard a little girl was missing on the news. There were police at the front door of the school the next day

She saw the CASS video, recognized the woman in white, and notified the police.

She says she spoke to police "within a week".

sillybilly
05-01-2012, 10:51 AM
Tori was wearing a warm jacket, so what! Sorry for the rant...MOO MOO

And Rafferty was wearing his pea coat.

~n/t~
05-01-2012, 10:51 AM
Avery Moore ‏ @AveryFreeFMNews
She says she is sure it was the same woman she saw go into the school. Same jacket, hair pulled back.

I still don't get where he's going with this.

Thinkzerz
05-01-2012, 10:51 AM
And why wasn't this woman a Crown witness? Why wasn't she the one who helped them draw a composite sketch and give a detailed description of the clothing? She claims to have seen her enough.



Not sure this elderly woman's testimony means anything. *scratching head

MOO

Maybe she did or she didn't know about the video of woman in white coat until her car was showing up as police wanted to know information on the car which might have been after the sketch was drawn? JMO

Wondergirl
05-01-2012, 10:51 AM
10:50
http://a0.twimg.com/profile_images/1862937618/trialavatar_normal.jpg (http://twitter.com/RaffertyLFP)RaffertyLFP:
The grandmom heard about Tori's disappearance on news She watched CASS video and recognized white coat woman She went to police [via Twitter]

greenthumb
05-01-2012, 10:51 AM
.James Armstrong‏@jamesarmstrong7

Witness says girl was "like any school child coming out f school. Just talking and smiling and laughing" #rafferty (https://twitter.com/#!/search/%23rafferty)

So, Tori was smiling and talking... so this is to lead us to believe that Tori would not have been resistant to getting into the car, or afraid, or asking to go home... so therefore we should believe that MR truly thought that TLM was 'babysitting' and MR was just an innocent dupe? Yeah, right.

Tink
05-01-2012, 10:52 AM
So why would Tori be Skipping and smiling if she didnt know this person?

Because she thought the person was going to take her to see a puppy? Or whatever else TLM had offered? Or that she was going to give her a ride home? Really, why wouldn't she be smiling?

Doesn't this contradict the teacher's evidence that Tori came back to get her earrings and so was late leaving the school?

Tink

tmhco
05-01-2012, 10:52 AM
This has got to be the weakest defence I have ever witnessed. JMO

Sailor Bug
05-01-2012, 10:52 AM
RaffertyLFP: The grandmom said the woman has dark hair pulled back - dark pants - wasn't carrying anything

RaffertyLFP: The woman said she did not know Rafferty and is "not happy" testifying for the defense

Wondergirl
05-01-2012, 10:52 AM
If woman was so stern, why would TS be smiling/skipping?

MOO


Because TORI was the one who was DUPED.

*angry*

Bravo
05-01-2012, 10:52 AM
Dear gawd the Crown is going to have a hay day with Grandmama. ROFLMAO. This is disappointing. I expected so much from the Defense.

Wondergirl
05-01-2012, 10:53 AM
No doubt, lady, no doubt.

Have no fear, the public is on YOUR side.


10:52
http://a0.twimg.com/profile_images/1862937618/trialavatar_normal.jpg (http://twitter.com/RaffertyLFP)RaffertyLFP:

The woman said she did not know Rafferty and is "not happy" testifying for the defense [via Twitter]

Sailor Bug
05-01-2012, 10:53 AM
She describes the woman as dark haired, wearing a white jacket and dark pants. She wasn't carrying anything. Again notes "stern face".

The woman dormant know Michael Rafferty and is "not happy" to testify for the defense.

RaffertyLFP: Crown begins cross-examination

crazyladi
05-01-2012, 10:53 AM
Also just because she didnt mention she went in the school she really didnt lie if the question was not asked. There was a lot of missing pieces to her testimony like how she got her to come with her, what she was behaving like in the car etc etc. Sorry this does nothing to change my judgement at all. I really hope there is more to his defence.

~n/t~
05-01-2012, 10:53 AM
Avery Moore ‏ @AveryFreeFMNews
Witness says next day she heard about the missing girl. Saw surveillance video of abduction. Decided to talk to police.

Steven D'Souza ‏ @cbcsteve
Witness says she told her story to police after finding out Tori was missing #sl

Steven D'Souza ‏ @cbcsteve
Witness says she noticed her as she was driving away, hair pulled back "... was on the move". #sl

Steven D'Souza ‏ @cbcsteve
Witness says woman looked stern, was walking briskly, not talking to little girl with her #sl

SideKick
05-01-2012, 10:53 AM
OMG help us all!

Sailor Bug
05-01-2012, 10:54 AM
No more questions from Derstine. Carnegie cross examining.

RaffertyLFP: The woman agrees she spoke to police on April 11 spoke to a female officer

Carnegie notes she spoke to police twice. First was on April 11th.

RaffertyLFP: Parents were asked at school to watch video the day after

Kamille
05-01-2012, 10:54 AM
So she saw a white coated woman stalking around the school and actually entering at some point.

She did not see the woman exit.

Victoria's teacher testified that she was in her line up with the other students. Victoria's teacher did not see this woman, nor did she see her talking with Victoria inside the school.

The witness could not see how Victoria and TLM ended up together because the school buses were blocking her view.

She saw them walking up the street when she finally exited the parking lot.

So how does this prove anything?

MOO

Wondergirl
05-01-2012, 10:55 AM
So, the lone witness for Rafferty, is able to state, on the stand, that basically, she is a hostile witness, and is not happy she is testifying for the defense?

OMG, Derstine, I expected SO MUCH MORE from you. Really, I did.

This is just bizarre.

JMO

Sailor Bug
05-01-2012, 10:55 AM
RaffertyLFP: The grandmom is asked about other statements she made to police around the date

She remembered some circumstances after seeing the video. In May, she spoke to police again.

She agrees that memories are clearer closer to events than three years later.

Confusedashell
05-01-2012, 10:56 AM
Didn't Tori's teacher testify that Tori went back into the school to get her ear rings?? wouldn't the teacher have seen TLM at this point??

~n/t~
05-01-2012, 10:56 AM
Steven D'Souza ‏ @cbcsteve
Derstine's questioning wraps. Michael Carnegie for Crown cross-examining witness now #sl

Steven D'Souza ‏ @cbcsteve
Derstine wraps with witness saying she doesn't know #Rafferty. Asked how she feels about testifying for defence, "I'm not happy" #sl



OMG! hahahahaha

nettie_82
05-01-2012, 10:56 AM
So, the lone witness for Rafferty, is able to state, on the stand, that basically, she is a hostile witness, and is not happy she is testifying for the defense?

OMG, Derstine, I expected SO MUCH MORE from you. Really, I did.

This is just bizarre.

JMO

I couldn't agree more!!! ONLY ONE witness, and a hostile one at that!!!!!!!

myzzy
05-01-2012, 10:56 AM
My take is that he is going to be implying that

Tori knew TLM and willingly got into the vehical. Which if according to this witness is accurate would imply no kidnapping by MR???

Thinkzerz
05-01-2012, 10:56 AM
No doubt, lady, no doubt.

Have no fear, the public is on YOUR side.

No doubt. I wouldn't want to testify for the defence either. Or the crown this case should never have happened and it makes me angry that TS had to go through what she did. IMO

crazyladi
05-01-2012, 10:57 AM
This is bad for the defence.. I just dont get it at all.... WTF

Wondergirl
05-01-2012, 10:57 AM
Linda Nguyen‏@LindaNguyenPN

Derstine is finished w his witness. Crown Michael Carnegie has now begun cross-examination of grandmother.

(https://twitter.com/#)

crazyladi
05-01-2012, 10:57 AM
This is bad for the defence.. I just dont get it at all.... WTF

Sailor Bug
05-01-2012, 10:57 AM
Carnegie says she was asked if she was certain if the woman in white was the same both sightings. Then she just said the jacket stuck out.

Wondergirl
05-01-2012, 10:57 AM
Linda Nguyen‏@LindaNguyenPN

Derstine is finished w his witness. Crown Michael Carnegie has now begun cross-examination of grandmother.

(https://twitter.com/#)

Sailor Bug
05-01-2012, 10:58 AM
Carnegie says she was asked if she was certain if the woman in white was the same both sightings. Then she just said the jacket stuck out.

RaffertyLFP: The Crown asks about her police statement she made May 26 that she identified woman thru her jacket

~n/t~
05-01-2012, 10:58 AM
So she saw a white coated woman stalking around the school and actually entering at some point.

She did not see the woman exit.

Victoria's teacher testified that she was in her line up with the other students. Victoria's teacher did not see this woman, nor did she see her talking with Victoria inside the school.

The witness could not see how Victoria and TLM ended up together because the school buses were blocking her view.

She saw them walking up the street when she finally exited the parking lot.

So how does this prove anything?

MOO


It doesn't prove anything. To me, it actually helps the Crown. She was stalking...looking for the "perfect" little girl for MR.

Sailor Bug
05-01-2012, 10:59 AM
Carnegie says she was asked if she was certain if the woman in white was the same both sightings. Then she just said the jacket stuck out.

RaffertyLFP: The Crown asks about her police statement she made May 26 that she identified woman thru her jacket

Oldsoul2
05-01-2012, 10:59 AM
RaffertyLFP: The woman is indicating on aerial photo where she saw the white-coated woman

RaffertyLFP: Woman said white-coated woman was walking briskly = appeared to be on a mission Tor i seemed like normal child

Ok we have video for that, what's the point here????

Sailor Bug
05-01-2012, 11:01 AM
Carnegie says she was asked if she was certain if the woman in white was the same both sightings. Then she just said the jacket stuck out.

RaffertyLFP: The Crown asks about her police statement she made May 26 that she identified woman thru her jacket

Now she says the whole person was the same. Carnegie notes she was trying to be as helpful as possible.

Now she says she's sure the woman was the same. Notes now police "didn't ask" about the woman at the school in 2009.

She was one bus length away from the woman in white, she says.

RaffertyLFP: The Grandmom said she was one bus length away when she first saw white coat woman

Sailor Bug
05-01-2012, 11:02 AM
Carnegie reading from her police statement.

RaffertyLFP: Crown reads police statement from May 26 from Grandmom that she was two bus lengths away

Flowercb
05-01-2012, 11:02 AM
No doubt, lady, no doubt.

Have no fear, the public is on YOUR side.

No kidding. Even his own mother didn't come to his defense--that speaks volumes....MOO

~n/t~
05-01-2012, 11:03 AM
Steven D'Souza ‏ @cbcsteve
Crown now questioning witness about how far she was from front door of school when she saw white-coated woman walk in to school #sl


Steven D'Souza ‏ @cbcsteve
Witness being asked about identifying woman in white coat. Says she's sure it was same person who entered school #sl

Steven D'Souza ‏ @cbcsteve
Crown asks witness about CASS surveillance video and her statement to police in 2009 #sl




Avery Moore ‏ @AveryFreeFMNews
Carnegie reads from transcript of 2nd interview with police where witness tells the police about the woman going into the school.

Avery Moore ‏ @AveryFreeFMNews
Crown Attorney Carnegie cross examining the witness. Asks her why she didn't tell police about the woman going into the school.

Wondergirl
05-01-2012, 11:03 AM
So, Derstine wanted it on record the Grandmother was not happy to testifying for the defense?

Obviously, he feels that it proves his point, that it goes against the Crown's theory.


Linda Nguyen‏@LindaNguyenPN

Last questions defence asked was if she knew #Rafferty (https://twitter.com/#!/search/%23Rafferty), she says no. How does she feel about testifying for defence? "Not happy," she says

(https://twitter.com/#)

Sailor Bug
05-01-2012, 11:03 AM
She was asked about the woman going in to the school. She notes there were two bus lengths between her and the woman (in 2009).

Carnegie notes it was less than two bus lengths, according to her. She says it was less.

RaffertyLFP: Grandmom said it was sunny and warm on April 8 too warm for ski jacket collar on jacket was up

Salem
05-01-2012, 11:03 AM
10:44
http://a0.twimg.com/profile_images/1862937618/trialavatar_normal.jpg (http://twitter.com/RaffertyLFP)RaffertyLFP:

She said white-coat woman was walking up the sidewalk stern-faced Tori was happy skipping [via Twitter]

So... she saw TLM go into school and not come out. Then as she drives away, she sees TLM and Tori walking up the street. Okay - but unless she has something about the parking lot, how does this help? There is video of them walking up the street?

I'm confused. Patience is not one of my virtures.....

Salem

Thinkzerz
05-01-2012, 11:04 AM
Bet granny never saw a person with Puffy white jacket before or after April 8th. I believe her. VS knew TLM. JMO

Wondergirl
05-01-2012, 11:04 AM
Did Grandma withold evidence, forget or ???


Avery Moore‏@AveryFreeFMNews

Crown Attorney Carnegie cross examining the witness. Asks her why she didn't tell police about the woman going into the school. #Rafferty (https://twitter.com/#!/search/%23Rafferty)

(https://twitter.com/#)

Wondergirl
05-01-2012, 11:05 AM
Avery Moore‏@AveryFreeFMNews (Moore‏@AveryFreeFMNews)

Carnegie reads from transcript of 2nd interview with police where witness tells the police about the woman going into the school. #Rafferty (https://twitter.com/#!/search/%23Rafferty)

crazyladi
05-01-2012, 11:06 AM
Poor old lady. Gawd. The lives that these people ruined makes me sick.. No one should have to be brought into this crap. I feel bad for each and every one of them.

And if that is all the defence has I am shocked, it makes no sense and Rafferty should have taken the stand but I know why he didnt, because he is GUILTY!!!

sillybilly
05-01-2012, 11:06 AM
IIRC, the person in the video who was waiting for their child was also wearing a coat, as was the child.

Sailor Bug
05-01-2012, 11:06 AM
She notes it was too warm to be wearing a ski jacket on April 8th, 2009.

RaffertyLFP: The grandmom said it was a three tier puffy ski jacket too warm for the weather

RaffertyLFP: Grandmom said she remembers dark pants on the woman

She describes the jacket to the court.

Flowercb
05-01-2012, 11:06 AM
Steven D'Souza ‏ @cbcsteve
Derstine's questioning wraps. Michael Carnegie for Crown cross-examining witness now #sl

Steven D'Souza ‏ @cbcsteve
Derstine wraps with witness saying she doesn't know #Rafferty. Asked how she feels about testifying for defence, "I'm not happy" #sl



OMG! hahahahaha

Derstine is just trying to prove that the women wouldn't have made this "stuff" up because she is not pro-Rafferty. MOO

robynhood
05-01-2012, 11:06 AM
AM980_Court The woman was walking briskly. The child "seemed to be happy". Witness assumed they were mother and daughter...robynhood another tweet said It seemed like the woman in white coat was on a MISSION ...walking briskly ...while chils walk slowly taking a mile a minute ...sorry all tweets could not be copied exactly ...I am sure other tweeters may post soon ...just got all that...robynhood

Wondergirl
05-01-2012, 11:06 AM
.James Armstrong‏@jamesarmstrong7 (Armstrong‏@jamesarmstrong7)


Crown calls the jacket "a Michelin man" jacket. "not that puffy" says witness.



1m (https://twitter.com/#!/jamesarmstrong7/status/197340567947067393).James Armstrong‏@jamesarmstrong7 (https://twitter.com/#!/jamesarmstrong7)


Witness says coat was "puffy" .



2m (https://twitter.com/#!/jamesarmstrong7/status/197340416864038912).James Armstrong‏@jamesarmstrong7 (https://twitter.com/#!/jamesarmstrong7)


Witness says collar of jacket was up. #rafferty (https://twitter.com/#!/search/%23rafferty)

Sailor Bug
05-01-2012, 11:07 AM
RaffertyLFP: Crown goes to April 11 statement where grandmom asked about clothing Said she didn't remember color

On April 11th, she was asked detailed questions. She was asked about clothing. Said she couldn't tell what colour the woman's pants were.

~n/t~
05-01-2012, 11:07 AM
Avery Moore ‏ @AveryFreeFMNews
Witness agrees that jacket was white and puffy without stripes. Had three tiers. "A Michelan man jacket," Carnegie explains.

Steven D'Souza ‏ @cbcsteve
Crown questioning witness about specific details she remembered like clothing and distance #sl

Wondergirl
05-01-2012, 11:07 AM
11:06
http://a0.twimg.com/profile_images/1862937618/trialavatar_normal.jpg (http://twitter.com/RaffertyLFP)RaffertyLFP:

Crown goes to April 11 statement where grandmom asked about clothing Said she didn't remember color [via Twitter]

Tuesday May 1, 2012 11:06 RaffertyLFP

11:05
http://a0.twimg.com/profile_images/1862937618/trialavatar_normal.jpg (http://twitter.com/RaffertyLFP)RaffertyLFP:

Grandmom said she remembers dark pants on the woman [via Twitter]

Tuesday May 1, 2012 11:05 RaffertyLFP


11:04
http://a0.twimg.com/profile_images/1862937618/trialavatar_normal.jpg (http://twitter.com/RaffertyLFP)RaffertyLFP:

The grandmom said it was a three tier puffy ski jacket too warm for the weather [via Twitter]

Tuesday May 1, 2012 11:04 RaffertyLFP


11:03
http://a0.twimg.com/profile_images/1862937618/trialavatar_normal.jpg (http://twitter.com/RaffertyLFP)RaffertyLFP:

Grandmom said it was sunny and warm on April 8 too warm for ski jacket collar on jacket was up

~n/t~
05-01-2012, 11:08 AM
Rafferty is probably thinking.......**** I should've taken the stand. :LOL:

Flowercb
05-01-2012, 11:08 AM
So... she saw TLM go into school and not come out. Then as she drives away, she sees TLM and Tori walking up the street. Okay - but unless she has something about the parking lot, how does this help? There is video of them walking up the street?

I'm confused. Patience is not one of my virtures.....

Salem

If this lady was leaving as TLM was going in and Tori went back to get her earings, this lady should have been long gone out of that parking lot before these two were walking up the road. MOO!!!!

~n/t~
05-01-2012, 11:08 AM
Avery Moore ‏ @AveryFreeFMNews
Witness said woman was wearing dark pants. Carnegie points out she told police in '09 she couldn't say what colour the pants were.

Jezbel
05-01-2012, 11:08 AM
Well I don't see an 'ah-ha' moment by the defense, IMO they really had nothing to discredit TLM's testimony. The one witness they called, well we all know about eyewitness accounts, in her police statement in 2009 she was 2 bus lengths away, and now she was one, hmm not the most reliable witness. Obviously there was no-one else fro him to call, says a lit when none of MR's family have been there in court and we come to find out it's not because they were going to be testifying, if I thought my son/brother/cousin etc was innocent I would be there to support them.

So what if it was TLM that walked into the school, we know she didn't take Tori at that point or the teacher would have seen. The defense has nothing and this shows. JMO

Sailor Bug
05-01-2012, 11:08 AM
RaffertyLFP: Grandmom said she did not see white-coat woman walk to Fyfe

Carnegie asks if the dark pants in the video are effecting her memory. She says no. Carnegie asks if she's sure. She says yes.

Witness agrees she never saw the person leave the school. She agrees primary students leave through another door.

~n/t~
05-01-2012, 11:09 AM
Steven D'Souza ‏ @cbcsteve
Crown asks witness if her memory is being affected by watching the surveillance video over and over again. Witness says no #sl

Steven D'Souza ‏ @cbcsteve
Crown seems to be pointing out that witness has better memory now than she did 3 days after Tori's disappearance #sl



BINGO!!

Flowercb
05-01-2012, 11:09 AM
Avery Moore ‏ @AveryFreeFMNews
Witness agrees that jacket was white and puffy without stripes. Had three tiers. "A Michelan man jacket," Carnegie explains.

Steven D'Souza ‏ @cbcsteve
Crown questioning witness about specific details she remembered like clothing and distance #sl

Coat did not have strips--witness excused, lol!! MOO!

robynhood
05-01-2012, 11:10 AM
got it from tweeter now....AM980_Court She says the woman in white was "on a mission", little girl was "talking a mile a minute".

Sailor Bug
05-01-2012, 11:10 AM
RaffertyLFP: Grandmom said she got more than a "fleeting look" at white coat woman - said she thought it was Tori's mom

One of her grandchildren mentioned the little girl walking with the woman. She only got a "side profile" Carnegie suggested.

She says she was driving slow. She got a good look.

Salem
05-01-2012, 11:10 AM
So why would Tori be Skipping and smiling if she didnt know this person?

To me, if this is true, it only hurts MR more - if Tori knew TLM, Tori's mother did not know that. That means that TLM was sneaking around TM's back to get to her daughter and to me that means planning. It doesn't mean babysitting. It means they (MR and TLM) were planning this way before it happened and they were working on setting it up.

I'll wait for more - but so far, this is much more harmful than helpful.

Salem

Flowercb
05-01-2012, 11:10 AM
Steven D'Souza ‏ @cbcsteve
Crown asks witness if her memory is being affected by watching the surveillance video over and over again. Witness says no #sl

Steven D'Souza ‏ @cbcsteve
Crown seems to be pointing out that witness has better memory now than she did 3 days after Tori's disappearance #sl



BINGO!!

Memory problems...well that explains it. MOO

Wondergirl
05-01-2012, 11:11 AM
Avery Moore‏@AveryFreeFMNews (Moore‏@AveryFreeFMNews)

Carnegie asks witness if watching the surveillance video over and over may have changed her memory. She says no. #Rafferty (https://twitter.com/#!/search/%23Rafferty)



Avery Moore‏@AveryFreeFMNews

Witness said woman was wearing dark pants. Carnegie points out she told police in '09 she couldn't say what colour the pants were. #Rafferty (https://twitter.com/#!/search/%23Rafferty)

nursebeeme
05-01-2012, 11:11 AM
RaffertyLFP: Crown goes to April 11 statement where grandmom asked about clothing Said she didn't remember color

On April 11th, she was asked detailed questions. She was asked about clothing. Said she couldn't tell what colour the woman's pants were.

proving her unreliability due to memory

crazyladi
05-01-2012, 11:11 AM
She had all three years to watch that video over and over again too adding things to her mind knowing that she would have to testify. This witness proved nothing at all.

Flowercb
05-01-2012, 11:12 AM
RaffertyLFP: Grandmom said she got more than a "fleeting look" at white coat woman - said she thought it was Tori's mom

Now I know why the police thought TM was involved in her daughter's disappearance way back at the beginning. Just because of granny and the drugs.

JayFriend
05-01-2012, 11:12 AM
Also just because she didnt mention she went in the school she really didnt lie if the question was not asked. There was a lot of missing pieces to her testimony like how she got her to come with her, what she was behaving like in the car etc etc. Sorry this does nothing to change my judgement at all. I really hope there is more to his defence.

All we know so far is what we saw on the TLM interviews and what she said on the stand at this trial. We don't know all she said in court before she was convicted because of the publication ban. One has to believe that the Crown was quite aware of this witness's story. In the end it still does not exonerate MTR as a participant.

~n/t~
05-01-2012, 11:12 AM
Steven D'Souza ‏ @cbcsteve
Crown reminds witness of statements to police where she says it could have been the mom in the white coat #sl

Sailor Bug
05-01-2012, 11:12 AM
Carnegie again notes the white coat was the important feature she saw. She agrees.

RaffertyLFP: Crown asks about grandmom's "on a mission" comment - the woman was just in a hurry

Wondergirl
05-01-2012, 11:13 AM
11:12
http://a0.twimg.com/profile_images/1862937618/trialavatar_normal.jpg (http://twitter.com/RaffertyLFP)RaffertyLFP:
Crown asks about grandmom's "on a mission" comment - the woman was just in a hurry [via Twitter] http://cdnsl.coveritlive.com/templates/coveritlive/images/icons/fb_share2.png
Tuesday May 1, 2012 11:12 RaffertyLFP

11:10
http://a0.twimg.com/profile_images/1862937618/trialavatar_normal.jpg (http://twitter.com/RaffertyLFP)RaffertyLFP:
Grandmom said she got more than a "fleeting look" at white coat woman - said she thought it was Tori's mom [via Twitter] http://cdnsl.coveritlive.com/templates/coveritlive/images/icons/fb_share2.png
Tuesday May 1, 2012 11:10 RaffertyLFP


11:08
http://a0.twimg.com/profile_images/1862937618/trialavatar_normal.jpg (http://twitter.com/RaffertyLFP)RaffertyLFP:
Grandmom said she did not see white-coat woman walk to Fyfe [via Twitter]

~n/t~
05-01-2012, 11:13 AM
RaffertyLFP: Crown asks about grandmom's "on a mission" comment - the woman was just in a hurry [via Twitter]



Touchdown!

Sailor Bug
05-01-2012, 11:15 AM
RaffertyLFP: The grandmom said she was the woman only in profile looked stern looking straight ahead did not talk to child

One of her grandchildren mentioned the little girl walking with the woman. She only got a "side profile" Carnegie suggested.

She says she was driving slow. She got a good look.

Carnegie again notes the white coat was the important feature she saw. She agrees.

She clarifies the woman seemed to be "on a mission" and walking quickly.

Carnegie asks if she knows what the choked on the street was saying. She doesn't know.

She was able to determine the stern look from a side profile, the witness says.

~n/t~
05-01-2012, 11:15 AM
Steven D'Souza ‏ @cbcsteve
Crown clarifies "on a mission" statement from witness. She says woman was in a hurry, didn't think anything bad was happening #sl



Avery Moore ‏ @AveryFreeFMNews
Carnegie questions why witness says the woman in the white jacket had a stern look on her face. #Rafferty

roseofsharon
05-01-2012, 11:15 AM
Because TORI was the one who was DUPED.

*angry*

But remember even TM (Tori's Mom) said TS was not herself, she was not doing all the hopping, skipping, jumping, in video. MOO

Sailor Bug
05-01-2012, 11:15 AM
RaffertyLFP: The grandmom said she saw the woman only in profile could not really see her expression she looked straight ahead

The woman in white wasn't carrying anything, she says. Carnegie confirms that.

RaffertyLFP: Cross is finished Derstine begins reexamination. He asks for brief recess without jury

robynhood
05-01-2012, 11:16 AM
AM980_Court The woman in white wasn't carrying anything, she says. Carnegie confirms that....robynhood

Wondergirl
05-01-2012, 11:16 AM
.James Armstrong‏@jamesarmstrong7 (Armstrong‏@jamesarmstrong7)

Crown has finished cross examination. #rafferty (https://twitter.com/#!/search/%23rafferty)

Oldsoul2
05-01-2012, 11:16 AM
Like I said....nothing substancial....they based their whole defense on TLM because MR based his whole excuse on blaming TLM because she said she would take the fall. They have nothing.

roseofsharon
05-01-2012, 11:16 AM
In school video, TLM's hair did not look pulled back, looking like it was down and straight and that's why TM got put under the microscope at the time?? MOO

~n/t~
05-01-2012, 11:17 AM
Steven D'Souza ‏ @cbcsteve
Crown says it was 8 degrees on Apr. 8/09 so wearing a white coat isn't out of ordinary, witness agrees #sl



FWIW It's 8 degrees here today where I am and I'm wearing my coat!!!

Hello_Kitty
05-01-2012, 11:17 AM
Goodness that witness was very confused.

Sailor Bug
05-01-2012, 11:17 AM
The woman says 8 degrees was on the cooler side. Carnegie suggests to her that was the temperature in Woodstock that day. No more questions.

Derstine has some reexamination, but "wants to run something by" Heeney first. Jury excused.

robynhood
05-01-2012, 11:17 AM
AM980_Court Derstine has some reexamination, but "wants to run something by" Heeney first. Jury excused....IMO...here we go again...recess..jury leaves..robynhood

~n/t~
05-01-2012, 11:17 AM
Avery Moore ‏ @AveryFreeFMNews
Crown is finished with cross exam. Derstine says he has more to address. Says he wants to run something by judge. Jury excused.

Avery Moore ‏ @AveryFreeFMNews
"She was walking like she had somewhere to go and she was rushed to get there." Witness, on the woman in the white jacket w/ girl.


Steven D'Souza ‏ @cbcsteve
Crown finishes its questioning. The witness has not been excused yet #sl

Wondergirl
05-01-2012, 11:18 AM
Finish your re-examination, Derstine.

My lord, I just can't believe with 10 million zillion pieces of evidence, witnesses, all the gang, drugs, blah blah blah, THAT is the best the defense could come up with, to prove his clients innocence?

Good-bye, Rafferty.

JMO

Flowercb
05-01-2012, 11:18 AM
RaffertyLFP: The grandmom said she was the woman only in profile looked stern looking straight ahead did not talk to child

One of her grandchildren mentioned the little girl walking with the woman. She only got a "side profile" Carnegie suggested.

She says she was driving slow. She got a good look.

Carnegie again notes the white coat was the important feature she saw. She agrees.

She clarifies the woman seemed to be "on a mission" and walking quickly.

Carnegie asks if she knows what the choked on the street was saying. She doesn't know.

She was able to determine the stern look from a side profile, the witness says.

I believe the granny saw her on the street. I don't believe she saw TLM going into the school though. I think she created a story in her head and started connecting dots after the fact. The timeline doesn't fit and Tori went back in to get her earings.

~n/t~
05-01-2012, 11:18 AM
RaffertyLFP: Cross is finished Derstine begins reexamination. He asks for brief recess without jury [via Twitter]



hahahaha!

Kamille
05-01-2012, 11:18 AM
She didn't tell LE about the very visible stripes on the coat.

She didn't know the colour of pants.

She didn't see the person exit the school with Victoria.

She didn't notice MR's funky painted car either in front of or behind her on the road.

Her view of everything was blocked by school buses until she was able to get out of the parking lot line up and onto the road at which point she saw them together.She has no idea how they ended up together.

She claims Victoria was chatting to TLM. The other witness further up the sidewalk says they weren't talking at all.

They've got nothing.

MOO

sillybilly
05-01-2012, 11:18 AM
got it from tweeter now....AM980_Court She says the woman in white was "on a mission", little girl was "talking a mile a minute".

And what was the little girl saying? Hey TLM, howz life in the EOA these days?

If she knew Tori was talking a mile a minute, then she had to have heard her. Seems not. JMO

Bravo
05-01-2012, 11:19 AM
I think Myzzy nailed the defense theory a few pages back. That Tori knew TLM so no kidnapping as far as MR was concerned. TLM planned the murder and carried it out. All MR was guilty of was helping clean up the crime scene. Gag me LOL

~n/t~
05-01-2012, 11:19 AM
Steven D'Souza ‏ @cbcsteve
Jury excused as lawyers argue a point of law #sl

Sailor Bug
05-01-2012, 11:19 AM
I think Derstine's going for ineffective council------------>on appeal

jmo

Wondergirl
05-01-2012, 11:19 AM
Run something by the Judge?

How about, "run away!!!"

JMO

Avery Moore‏@AveryFreeFMNews

Crown is finished with cross exam. Derstine says he has more to address. Says he wants to run something by judge. Jury excused. #Rafferty (https://twitter.com/#!/search/%23Rafferty)

Thinkzerz
05-01-2012, 11:20 AM
Goodness that witness was very confused.

Confused about what? The length of the buses between her and TLM?

Flowercb
05-01-2012, 11:21 AM
I think Mzzy nailed the defense theory a few pages back. That Tori knew TLM so no kidnapping as far as MR was concerned. TLM planned the murder and carried it out. All MR was guilty of was helping clean up the crime scene. Gag me LOL

yeah, and sexual assault. Poor Tori!! Justice for you little one!

Thinkzerz
05-01-2012, 11:21 AM
What was the point of having VS in his car all the way from Woodstock to Mount Forest. He will be found guilty. JMO

Flowercb
05-01-2012, 11:21 AM
Confused about what? The length of the buses between her and TLM?

Confused about everything...MOO

CarrieBean
05-01-2012, 11:21 AM
I think Derstine's going for ineffective council------------>on appeal

jmo

Oh no! He better not!

Flowercb
05-01-2012, 11:23 AM
Run something by the Judge?

How about, "run away!!!"

JMO

Avery Moore‏@AveryFreeFMNews

Crown is finished with cross exam. Derstine says he has more to address. Says he wants to run something by judge. Jury excused. #Rafferty (https://twitter.com/#!/search/%23Rafferty)

I doubt Derstine will have people flocking to his door for defense. But then again, it is difficult to defend a guilty person. MOO!

~n/t~
05-01-2012, 11:23 AM
I think Derstine's going for ineffective council------------>on appeal

jmo

Good Luck, imo. He had 3 attornies. 2 women attornies helping Derstine!

JayFriend
05-01-2012, 11:24 AM
Rafferty is probably thinking.......**** I should've taken the stand. :LOL:
Curious if he could still go against his lawyer's advice and take the stand before the jury goes into deliberation.

Bravo
05-01-2012, 11:24 AM
yeah, and sexual assault. Poor Tori!! Justice for you little one!

I think Tori did get to tell. Her story came thru loud and clear.

jenniferleia
05-01-2012, 11:24 AM
I think Derstine's going for ineffective council------------>on appeal

jmo


Can he do that? Can that happen? Would Derstine acutally do that on purpose??????

Dmman
05-01-2012, 11:25 AM
Finish your re-examination, Derstine.

My lord, I just can't believe with 10 million zillion pieces of evidence, witnesses, all the gang, drugs, blah blah blah, THAT is the best the defense could come up with, to prove his clients innocence?

Good-bye, Rafferty.

JMO

All but standing on my chair applauding this!!!!!

sillybilly
05-01-2012, 11:26 AM
Confused about what? The length of the buses between her and TLM?

Umm ... everything?

Wondergirl
05-01-2012, 11:26 AM
She didn't tell LE about the very visible stripes on the coat.

She didn't know the colour of pants.

She didn't see the person exit the school with Victoria.

She didn't notice MR's funky painted car either in front of or behind her on the road.

Her view of everything was blocked by school buses until she was able to get out of the parking lot line up and onto the road at which point she saw them together.She has no idea how they ended up together.

She claims Victoria was chatting to TLM. The other witness further up the sidewalk says they weren't talking at all.

They've got nothing.

MOO

BBM: They've got nothing, and the jury must be sitting there scratching their heads, IMO. WTH? That's IT??

JMO

Sailor Bug
05-01-2012, 11:26 AM
I cannot believe Derstine had 4 day's to prepare...and he gave us Grandma

Guess they couldn't pry Rafferty's fingers off the jail bars to testify how horrified he was

jmo

Wondergirl
05-01-2012, 11:26 AM
11:24
Mike Knoll:
@Sally - in my opinion, this witness makes it seem as if TLM was more involved in the abduction than previous testimony would indicate.

Tuesday May 1, 2012 11:24 Mike Knoll

11:23
http://cdnsl.coveritlive.com/templates/coveritlive/images/spacer.gif[Comment From Sally Sally : ]

It doesn;t seem like the defense gave any new information from their witness. Am I missing something? I don't know what they have gained by presening her, and why the prosecution did not use her?

Bravo
05-01-2012, 11:27 AM
MOO but this testimony was to show why would MTR ever think this was a kidnapping when a bold TLM actually entered the school to snatch a child. Since most child snatchers do it outside of the school. This was purely a case of babysitting as far as MTR was concerned.

Flowercb
05-01-2012, 11:27 AM
Has anyone tweeted whether MTR family is in the court room today? If they are not calling any more witnesses, they should be allowed to be there if they want to be. MOO

tmhco
05-01-2012, 11:27 AM
I wonder if MR jotted all this down? WTH was all that note taking about? Am I the only one completely baffled as to why this went to trial? JMO

KMouse
05-01-2012, 11:28 AM
AM980_Court Derstine has some reexamination, but "wants to run something by" Heeney first. Jury excused....IMO...here we go again...recess..jury leaves..robynhood

Oh no, not another "pop tart" jury.

JayFriend
05-01-2012, 11:28 AM
Avery Moore ‏ @AveryFreeFMNews
Witness said woman was wearing dark pants. Carnegie points out she told police in '09 she couldn't say what colour the pants were.

I see where the Crown is going with this. The witness had far more details on what "the woman" was wearing in her second interview. The "puffy white coat woman" video must have been show on TV a zillion times after Tori disappeared. Was it shown before the witness's second police interview?

jenniferleia
05-01-2012, 11:28 AM
I cant believe this is all he had?!?!? It just makes me so angry!!! This poor lady was probably the last one (normal person) to see Tori alive....skipping and happy...my heart hurts so bad. What a rotton witness. Raffertys grave has been dug. JMO

nettie_82
05-01-2012, 11:28 AM
If TLM was more involved in the actually kidnapping then first thought, it doesn't make the murder any less his fault. Remember the opening when the Crown stated about them acting together? He was still there with TLM and did nothing. Still a murder charge, still life in prision IMO.

Bravo
05-01-2012, 11:29 AM
Can he do that? Can that happen? Would Derstine acutally do that on purpose??????

NO unless he wants to end his career.

Wondergirl
05-01-2012, 11:30 AM
Mike Drolet‏@MDroletGlobalTV

Defence witness saw McClintic walk into school. Was tori targeted ? Not random?

LoyalSleuth
05-01-2012, 11:31 AM
Will we ever know the Defence's story of what happened that day? They didn't give opening statement, will they make a closing statement? Or is that option gone now because they put grandma up on the stand?

sillybilly
05-01-2012, 11:31 AM
MOO but this testimony was to show why would MTR ever think this was a kidnapping when a bold TLM actually entered the school to snatch a child. Since most child snatchers do it outside of the school. This was purely a case of babysitting as far as MTR was concerned.

MTR wouldn't have known IF she went into the school ... he was up the street waiting.

Salem
05-01-2012, 11:32 AM
So, the lone witness for Rafferty, is able to state, on the stand, that basically, she is a hostile witness, and is not happy she is testifying for the defense?

OMG, Derstine, I expected SO MUCH MORE from you. Really, I did.

This is just bizarre.

JMO

There wasn't anything more, though. Anything Derstine did could have been used against his client - and apparently Derstine didn't dare go there. Very interesting!

Salem

Wondergirl
05-01-2012, 11:32 AM
Curious if he could still go against his lawyer's advice and take the stand before the jury goes into deliberation.


No. My understanding is that if Rafferty is testifying, he has to do so first.

Rafferty will not be taking the stand.

JMO

nettie_82
05-01-2012, 11:32 AM
Will we ever know the Defence's story of what happened that day? They didn't give opening statement, will they make a closing statement? Or is that option gone now because they put grandma up on the stand?

They can make closing statements, their closing statement will come before the Crown's closing. If Derstine didn't make a closing statement I have to believe this defence would definitely go down in history as the WORST DEFENCE EVER.

Kamille
05-01-2012, 11:32 AM
MOO but this testimony was to show why would MTR ever think this was a kidnapping when a bold TLM actually entered the school to snatch a child. Since most child snatchers do it outside of the school. This was purely a case of babysitting as far as MTR was concerned.

How would MR know that TLM entered the school? He was hiding at a local gas station waiting for the right time to approach the school so his car would have minimal impact in the area.

MOO

nursebeeme
05-01-2012, 11:33 AM
does it really matter if they planted the possibility that Tori was targeted or not? All the prosecution has to prove is that MR had a part in what happened to Tori. And I believe they did.

I still don't think this witness can be considered reliable: re: TLM walked into the school. The rest of it: Tori skipping, etc.. of course she was skipping.. she was going to see the puppies.. and had no idea of what evil was coming for her.

moo

nursebeeme
05-01-2012, 11:34 AM
There wasn't anything more, though. Anything Derstine did could have been used against his client - and apparently Derstine didn't dare go there. Very interesting!

Salem

that is what I am thinking too Salem.. he didn't want to open any doors for cross by the Crown.

And what he had that he felt comfortable with cross was nothing..

Flowercb
05-01-2012, 11:35 AM
In school video, TLM's hair did not look pulled back, looking like it was down and straight and that's why TM got put under the microscope at the time?? MOO

Wow. Looks like this witness caused more harm than good. They could have closed this case sooner and found Tori sooner if the police were not zeroing in on TM. MOO!

Wondergirl
05-01-2012, 11:35 AM
11:34
Mike Knoll:
@Louise - yes, things are moving along faster than anticipated.

Tuesday May 1, 2012 11:34 Mike Knoll

11:34
http://cdnsl.coveritlive.com/templates/coveritlive/images/spacer.gif[Comment From Louise Louise : ]

Is the proceedings progressing faster than anticipated? I know that it was given an approx. 3 month duration, however the Crown rested in less than 30 days.

Tuesday May 1, 2012 11:34 Louise


11:34
Mike Knoll:

@Woodstockguest - an application for a pub ban must be submitted to court. this costs money and time and takes some acumen and organization. The g-friends who were named simply didn't go through this process. I can understand why a woman testifying for the defence wouldn't want her name out there.

Tuesday May 1, 2012 11:34 Mike Knoll


11:32
http://cdnsl.coveritlive.com/templates/coveritlive/images/spacer.gif[Comment From WoodstockGuest WoodstockGuest : ]

there can be a publication ban on a grandmother's name but not 17 or 18 girlfriends?

Tuesday May 1, 2012 11:32 WoodstockGuest


11:32
Mike Knoll:
@guest - supposed to be 20 minutes.

Tuesday May 1, 2012 11:32 Mike Knoll


11:32
http://cdnsl.coveritlive.com/templates/coveritlive/images/spacer.gif[Comment From Guest Guest : ]

How long is break

Hello_Kitty
05-01-2012, 11:35 AM
Sorry SB, I couldn't find the original quote.

What is innefective council?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Sailor Bug
I think Derstine's going for ineffective council------------>on appeal

jmo

JayFriend
05-01-2012, 11:36 AM
Coat did not have strips--witness excused, lol!! MOO!

There was a lot of debate here whether the white coat woman in the CASS video might have been carrying a black yoga mat case over her shoulder. It's a shame the Crown's "video analysis expert" didn't have anything on that. We see in the HD video Gallery Cinemas videos TLM's white coat had black piping down the sleeves, but that could not have been caught in the fuzzy CASS video. Maybe she did have two white coats. I remember something about dying a puffy white coat pinnk and then getting rid of it.

Jezbel
05-01-2012, 11:36 AM
I re-watched the video of the green car, it doesn't actually look as if she is going that slow she could have gotten that good a look at TLM. Also re-watched the surveillance video, to me it looks like TLM's hair is down (like in the HD) video and also that her jacket is undone, not unusual to wear a ski jacket and have to undone if it is a little warmer out.

~n/t~
05-01-2012, 11:36 AM
I cant believe this is all he had?!?!? It just makes me so angry!!! This poor lady was probably the last one (normal person) to see Tori alive....skipping and happy...my heart hurts so bad. What a rotton witness. Raffertys grave has been dug. JMO

Why does it make you angry? I'm rejoicing. It confirms they have no defense. Period.

Wondergirl
05-01-2012, 11:37 AM
Francis D'Souza‏@cityfrancis

Def declined opening statement. Remember onus is on crown to prove guilt. Def doesn't have to present anything

(https://twitter.com/#)

nettie_82
05-01-2012, 11:37 AM
Mike Knoll: @Matt - keeping in mind that I think it is all interesting, yes, there will be a slew of info released.

Flowercb
05-01-2012, 11:38 AM
NO unless he wants to end his career.

And I doubt Derstine would do that for MTR. MOO

KMouse
05-01-2012, 11:39 AM
I don't understand the purpose of putting an unreliable witness on the stand.
This is the only witness that has said that TLM went inside the school. Nobody else anywhere has stated the same. What's the point?

Ardy
05-01-2012, 11:39 AM
Interesting that this information came out now.

In 2009, TM made comments about the school's responsibility towards making sure kids are picked up by parents or authorized people.

It didn't make a lot of sense until now, because TM had said VS was supposed to walk home alone, and the school wouldn't be responsible for that.

But now...........we know that TLM went into the school and got VS out.

Why did TLM lie about that?

Was it because she hiding the fact that she told MR she was looking after VS? Was it because it didn't fit her story of a random abduction? Was VS taken as revenge for something?

Lots of questions opened up with this witness testimony.

JMO..............

Sailor Bug
05-01-2012, 11:40 AM
Sorry SB, I couldn't find the original quote.

What is innefective council?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Sailor Bug
I think Derstine's going for ineffective council------------>on appeal

jmo

defendant claims before trial that counsel was ineffective in investigation, preparation, or for some other substantial reason, the trial court has a constitutional duty to conduct an inquiry sufficient to determine the truth and scope of the defendant’s allegations
jmo

Flowercb
05-01-2012, 11:40 AM
I wonder if MR jotted all this down? WTH was all that note taking about? Am I the only one completely baffled as to why this went to trial? JMO

He may have wanted to take notes in case he took the stand. Derstine may have advised him that it was too risky and he took Derstine's advise. Purely speculation and MOO.

nursebeeme
05-01-2012, 11:40 AM
Interesting that this information came out now.

In 2009, TM made comments about the school's responsibility towards making sure kids are picked up by parents or authorized people.

It didn't make a lot of sense until now, because TM had said VS was supposed to walk home alone, and the school wouldn't be responsible for that.

But now...........we know that TLM went into the school and got VS out.

Why did TLM lie about that?

Was it because she hiding the fact that she told MR she was looking after VS? Was it because it didn't fit her story of a random abduction? Was VS taken as revenge for something?

Lots of questions opened up with this witness testimony.

JMO..............
I still don't exactly believe the witness

(re: TLM went inside the school)

Kamille
05-01-2012, 11:41 AM
Not one other person saw TLM enter the school...or in the school? Not one other child that was lined up waiting to leave? Children always notice strangers. So do teachers and other school administrators.

Okay so let's say TLM did enter the school. What does that prove? It proves why MR needed a teenage girl to help him abduct a child. Because obviously no one thought anything about it. So much so that not one other person noticed her.

And of course the witness got such a good look at that "puffy white jacket" that she didn't notice the very prominent black stripes down both arms and across the back. Didn't notice them when they were walking up the street either. Funny how those stripes didn't show in the CASS video at all. But they were very prominent in all other videos that were kept under wraps until the trial.

And of course this witness has no idea if the woman in the white puffy jacket left the school empty handed and was walking back towards the designated parking spot when a happy little girl came skipping out of the school towards where she was walking.

MOO

Dmman
05-01-2012, 11:41 AM
Interesting that this information came out now.

In 2009, TM made comments about the school's responsibility towards making sure kids are picked up by parents or authorized people.

It didn't make a lot of sense until now, because TM had said VS was supposed to walk home alone, and the school wouldn't be responsible for that.

But now...........we know that TLM went into the school and got VS out.

Why did TLM lie about that?

Was it because she hiding the fact that she told MR she was looking after VS? Was it because it didn't fit her story of a random abduction? Was VS taken as revenge for something?

Lots of questions opened up with this witness testimony.

JMO..............

We don't know if that was TLM entering the school, that could've been a staff member for all we know. She didn't see her exit the school either.

Wondergirl
05-01-2012, 11:42 AM
11:40
Mike Knoll:
@Alison - 6,586

Tuesday May 1, 2012 11:40 Mike Knoll

11:40
http://cdnsl.coveritlive.com/templates/coveritlive/images/spacer.gif[Comment From Alison Alison : ]

How many online are following your tweets now?

nettie_82
05-01-2012, 11:42 AM
I don't understand Grandma's testimony at all. TLM marched right into the school only seen by ONE person, this happens to be the same day Tori forgets her earrings and has to go back in to get them, then TLM and Tori march right back outside again and walk up the street? I REALLY DON'T GET IT.

Sailor Bug
05-01-2012, 11:42 AM
http://www.simcoereformer.ca/2012/03/06/tori-staffords-mother-to-take-stand
Tori Stafford's teacher breaks down in court

A couple of minutes before the dismissal bell rang, Victoria asked if she could go back in the class to get the butterfly earrings her mother had loaned her that day. Victoria came back after the bell had rung and the other children left, about a minute later.

Tori wasn’t wearing the earrings, so Murrell asked the girl if she had them.

Tori said “yep,” so the teacher assumed she had them in her backpack or pocket.

“OK, hon, we’ll see you tomorrow,” Murrell said.

“And then she went out the door,” she told the jury, her voice cracking with sorrow.

Oldsoul2
05-01-2012, 11:43 AM
What could the defense possibly do to prove that MR was actually duped in the first place. It is all hearsay, she said he said but the evidence presented by the Crown of the actual events is solid. I knew from the get go there was no possible way this defense was going to have anything when they opened with were not denying he was there theory.

~n/t~
05-01-2012, 11:43 AM
Derstine requested a break.....without the jury.

Does he want a do over? bwahahaha

Wondergirl
05-01-2012, 11:43 AM
Francis D'Souza‏@cityfrancis

#ToriStafford (https://twitter.com/#!/search/%23ToriStafford) murder trial about to resume, going back in.

(https://twitter.com/#)

JayFriend
05-01-2012, 11:44 AM
Steven D'Souza ‏ @cbcsteve
Crown says it was 8 degrees on Apr. 8/09 so wearing a white coat isn't out of ordinary, witness agrees #sl



FWIW It's 8 degrees here today where I am and I'm wearing my coat!!!

The witness was adamant about a ski jacket being a bit warm for the spring weather, but she was sitting inside a minivan with the heater going, no doubt. Okay, maybe the "spring" weather this year has been a bit crazier than then, but so far I've worn a ski jacket or a t-shirt at various times.

Bravo
05-01-2012, 11:44 AM
MTR wouldn't have known IF she went into the school ... he was up the street waiting.

True but i think the defense hopes to show that since TLM did enter the school it was to convince MTR this was all on the up and up. He could have pulled out of that parking lot at anytime to pick up Tori and the babysitter.

brighidin
05-01-2012, 11:46 AM
Interesting that this information came out now.

In 2009, TM made comments about the school's responsibility towards making sure kids are picked up by parents or authorized people.

It didn't make a lot of sense until now, because TM had said VS was supposed to walk home alone, and the school wouldn't be responsible for that.

But now...........we know that TLM went into the school and got VS out.

Why did TLM lie about that?

Was it because she hiding the fact that she told MR she was looking after VS? Was it because it didn't fit her story of a random abduction? Was VS taken as revenge for something?

Lots of questions opened up with this witness testimony.

JMO..............

We don't know that for a fact. In any case, this poor lady's testimony doesn't negate anything that has been presented by the crown, and the Crown seems to have done a good job making her testimony less credible by inferring that her information became more detailed after viewing the tape.

The only questions this opens up for me are:
WTH is Derstine thinking?
and
Which jail are they going to put MR in since Kingston is closing?
imo

~n/t~
05-01-2012, 11:46 AM
Does Tara own a white coat? Maybe grandma is confused with the day she saw TLM.

KMouse
05-01-2012, 11:47 AM
Interesting that this information came out now.

In 2009, TM made comments about the school's responsibility towards making sure kids are picked up by parents or authorized people.

It didn't make a lot of sense until now, because TM had said VS was supposed to walk home alone, and the school wouldn't be responsible for that.

But now...........we know that TLM went into the school and got VS out.

Why did TLM lie about that?

Was it because she hiding the fact that she told MR she was looking after VS? Was it because it didn't fit her story of a random abduction? Was VS taken as revenge for something?

Lots of questions opened up with this witness testimony.

JMO..............

I disagree with you.
How come nobody else has ever come forward placing TLM inside the school?

Even if it were true that Tori was targeted and not chosen at random it does not change the outcome or any of the other circumstances.

CarrieBean
05-01-2012, 11:47 AM
Interesting that this information came out now.

In 2009, TM made comments about the school's responsibility towards making sure kids are picked up by parents or authorized people.

It didn't make a lot of sense until now, because TM had said VS was supposed to walk home alone, and the school wouldn't be responsible for that.

But now...........we know that TLM went into the school and got VS out.

Why did TLM lie about that?

Was it because she hiding the fact that she told MR she was looking after VS? Was it because it didn't fit her story of a random abduction? Was VS taken as revenge for something?

Lots of questions opened up with this witness testimony.

JMO..............

We don't know that TLM went into the school. One person out of many, in the midst of the teachers and all the other parents/students, who were at the school noticed TLM go into the school? I have doubts that this woman's memory is accurate.

Dmman
05-01-2012, 11:48 AM
I think this defense team will be picked apart for years to come!

Sailor Bug
05-01-2012, 11:48 AM
Won't be long before the publication ban is over

KMouse
05-01-2012, 11:48 AM
I think this defense team will be picked apart for years to come!

You can only work with what you've got and in MR's case there is nothing.

brighidin
05-01-2012, 11:49 AM
I feel Tori's teacher's testimony is far more credible and representative of what happened at dismissal than this woman's recollection.

Thinkzerz
05-01-2012, 11:49 AM
Granny messed up. TLM is seen in video carrying a purse.

SideKick
05-01-2012, 11:50 AM
Well, for one thing after this, I think Ontario should proceed with installing video camera's in ALL schools, public as well as private and secondary schools. Geesh. It is 2012 isn't it?

tmhco
05-01-2012, 11:50 AM
What could the defense possibly do to prove that MR was actually duped in the first place. It is all hearsay, she said he said but the evidence presented by the Crown of the actual events is solid. I knew from the get go there was no possible way this defense was going to have anything when they opened with were not denying he was there theory.

I believe it cannot even be considered by the jury because TLM did not adopt it as true. They got nothing. JMO

SideKick
05-01-2012, 11:51 AM
They obviously have nothing to defend except 'hope' they can plant reasonable doubt.... but how? MR was at the scene. Period.

Flowercb
05-01-2012, 11:52 AM
Mike Knoll: @Matt - keeping in mind that I think it is all interesting, yes, there will be a slew of info released.

We will be discussing this long after the trial is over. MOO!

crazyladi
05-01-2012, 11:52 AM
Interesting that this information came out now.

In 2009, TM made comments about the school's responsibility towards making sure kids are picked up by parents or authorized people.

It didn't make a lot of sense until now, because TM had said VS was supposed to walk home alone, and the school wouldn't be responsible for that.

But now...........we know that TLM went into the school and got VS out.

Why did TLM lie about that?

Was it because she hiding the fact that she told MR she was looking after VS? Was it because it didn't fit her story of a random abduction? Was VS taken as revenge for something?

Lots of questions opened up with this witness testimony.

JMO..............


She didnt lie about it. She was never asked the question.

jenniferleia
05-01-2012, 11:53 AM
Why does it make you angry? I'm rejoicing. It confirms they have no defense. Period.

Dont get me wrong...I am rejoicing too, but feel like there will be more to this then meets the eye....like an appeal for example or some kind of mistrial or something technical like that coming and that makes me sad.

I half expected a story so riduculous that we would laugh and roll our eyes.

Desdemona
05-01-2012, 11:53 AM
Can't believe that's all he had. Fizzle.

Necro isn't gonna connect the dots, dude. Sorry.

If I were a juror, it would be clear to me why the Crown chose not to put this confused grandma on the stand in their case.

And it would also be clear to me why Derstine chose not to put his client on the stand.

He's sunk, IMO.

Justice for sweet Tori. <3

:praying:

Kamille
05-01-2012, 11:53 AM
Granny messed up. TLM is seen in video carrying a purse.

TLM also testified that she was carrying a purse because it got caught in the door when she was jumping in the front seat after pushing Victoria in the back seat because "Mike" was yelling at her to "hurry up".

MOO

nettie_82
05-01-2012, 11:53 AM
Well, for one thing after this, I think Ontario should proceed with installing video camera's in ALL schools, public as well as private and secondary schools. Geesh. It is 2012 isn't it?

I couldn't agree more! If it is a money problem that they don't, I know I personally would do away with a lot of the other fundraising they do and give a whole lot more to this type of thing where I know children for years and years to come would be kept safe!!!!!! Maybe this should be another law passed in Tori's name.

Sailor Bug
05-01-2012, 11:54 AM
They went to break @11:16...that's alot of running Derstine

Derstine has some reexamination, but "wants to run something by" Heeney first. Jury excused.

myzzy
05-01-2012, 11:54 AM
i think if we look at the defence doing their case in chapters as did the crown. They feel they are able to show either evidence or reasonable doubt without the need for any further witness ( hence the few more months expected to take )

I think today is the only witness and they are addressing the kidnapping charge, and as i take the defences questioning, i see where reasonable doubt could come in to play and or that MR did not kidnap Tori because it was TLM who did it without his knowledge (Editted to add, Does not mean he did not know)

because if it is to be believed by this witness, Tori was not with a stranger it would appear, because if TLM went into that school then it could be assumed Tori was a target (*Whatever reason for the kidnapping) and known by TLM

Ardy
05-01-2012, 11:54 AM
We don't know if that was TLM entering the school, that could've been a staff member for all we know. She didn't see her exit the school either.

Were staff members walking with VS down the sidewalk........in an identical coat?

What I am wondering about now is the VS teacher's testimony.

If she saw VS going out and then back to the classroom for her earrings, and then out again...............why didn't she see TLM?

There is no reason to disbelieve this witness. She has no credibility issues and no reason to hide anything or lie.

She was at the school often picking up her own grand kids.

Posters are making derogatory remarks about her......and don't even know anything about her........including her age.

If she says she saw TLM walking in the front door of the school...........TLM walked in the front door of the school.........IMO.

Believe the witness or TLM?...........................JMO.

SideKick
05-01-2012, 11:55 AM
On the vid we see a woman outside standing alone with a white coat, Tori approaches and off they walk together, rather a quick pace to boot off the school property and down the street towards the other ugly person .... Dear God.....

Wondergirl
05-01-2012, 11:56 AM
We don't know that for a fact. In any case, this poor lady's testimony doesn't negate anything that has been presented by the crown, and the Crown seems to have done a good job making her testimony less credible by inferring that her information became more detailed after viewing the tape.

The only questions this opens up for me are:
WTH is Derstine thinking?
and
Which jail are they going to put MR in since Kingston is closing?
imo


I vote these two for best questions of the day!

Alison
05-01-2012, 11:56 AM
They obviously have nothing to defend except 'hope' they can plant reasonable doubt.... but how? MR was at the scene. Period.

Especially since us up here in Northern Ontario have videos in all schools, and you have to be buzzed into the schools as well. So I do not understand why Southern Ontario has not adopted this policy as well. Or perhaps they do have it???

Sailor Bug
05-01-2012, 11:56 AM
Close
Rafferty trial day 30 (05/01/2012)

11:56 Mike Knoll: Hank Daniszewski's morning update:

A Woodstock grandma said she got a clear look at a dark-haired woman who leading Tori Stafford away on April 8, 2009.

"She walked briskly and looked straight ahead like she was on a mission,"

said the woman who was Oliver Stephens School picking up her grandchildren. She said Tori was skipping along behind looking happy but trying to keep up.

The woman was the first and only witness for defense lawyer Dirk Derstine.

He has suggested that Terri-Lynne McClintic -- identified as the woman in the white coat -- masterminded the abduction.

The grandmom said she got a good look at the woman in front of the school, entering the school and later on Fyfe Avenue.

She caught her attention because she was wearing a puffy ski jacket on a hot day.

Under cross-examination the Crown pointed out that the grandmom's memory conflicted with some earlier statements she made to police in April and May of 2009.

Dmman
05-01-2012, 11:57 AM
The more time I have to digest what happened this morning, the more relaxed I am about the outcome. I think the only reason MR plead not guilty was in hopes of bring released per-trail. I'm happy this is coming to a swift end for Tori's family. Thinking of them all today for sure!

Bravo
05-01-2012, 11:57 AM
Yes Cameras would be a good idea. It seems since this is Canada most think we are immune to the many crimes we read of. Well guess what Canada it is happening here. There are several laws that need to change.

sillybilly
05-01-2012, 11:58 AM
I half expected a story so riduculous that we would laugh and roll our eyes.<rsbm>

We'll probably have that opportunity when the defence does their closing argument ;) JK

I'm sure Derstine is doing the best with what he had to work with, and will do the biggest spin he can in closing.

JMO

SideKick
05-01-2012, 11:58 AM
I couldn't agree more! If it is a money problem that they don't, I know I personally would do away with a lot of the other fundraising they do and give a whole lot more to this type of thing where I know children for years and years to come would be kept safe!!!!!! Maybe this should be another law passed in Tori's name.

Yes netti_82, I totally so agree, that this has to happen. Mariam in Toronto who disappeared apparently went to school with her brother, took him to one door and then was to go into the front door herself but unfortunately, there was no camera's in or outside of the school. Forest Hill Colleigiate to boot!! Where are there tax $ going? Save the children!

Wondergirl
05-01-2012, 11:59 AM
Steven D'Souza‏@cbcsteve (D'Souza‏@cbcsteve)

Court has resumed with legal arguments. Jury not present.

(https://twitter.com/#)

nursebeeme
05-01-2012, 11:59 AM
Were staff members walking with VS down the sidewalk........in an identical coat?

What I am wondering about now is the VS teacher's testimony.

If she saw VS going out and then back to the classroom for her earrings, and then out again...............why didn't she see TLM?

There is no reason to disbelieve this witness. She has no credibility issues and no reason to hide anything or lie.

She was at the school often picking up her own grand kids.

Posters are making derogatory remarks about her......and don't even know anything about her........including her age.

If she says she saw TLM walking in the front door of the school...........TLM walked in the front door of the school.........IMO.

Believe the witness or TLM?...........................JMO. eyewitnesses can be unreliable. It has nothing to do with their personal credibility.. it has to do with seeing something with your eyes and being able to recall details.

I have not seen derogatory comments. If there have been please alert. It has been stated that she is a grandmother.


Just because she says she saw TLM walk in the school does not mean that 100% TLM walked into the school. The witness also said she was not carrying anything but in the video TLM was carrying a purse.

moo

Flowercb
05-01-2012, 11:59 AM
i think if we look at the defence doing their case in chapters as did the crown. They feel they are able to show either evidence or reasonable doubt without the need for any further witness ( hence the few more months expected to take )

I think today is the only witness and they are addressing the kidnapping charge, and as i take the defences questioning, i see where reasonable doubt could come in to play and or that MR did not kidnap Tori because it was TLM who did it without his knowledge (Editted to add, Does not mean he did not know)

because if it is to be believed by this witness, Tori was not with a stranger it would appear, because if TLM went into that school then it could be assumed Tori was a target (*Whatever reason for the kidnapping) and known by TLM

This witness cannot be believed..Can't remember things and noone else saw TLM going in the school...timeline of women seeing TLM going in and seeing them walking on the street doesn't fit either.MOO.

Sailor Bug
05-01-2012, 11:59 AM
Jurors still not in the courtroom.

Oldsoul2
05-01-2012, 11:59 AM
On top of this Derstine claimed publicly before the trial that there was alot we don't know and will be shocked about or something like that. I'm shocked, definitely shocked at the total lack of defense.

Salem
05-01-2012, 12:00 PM
NO unless he wants to end his career.

There is no ineffective counsel here. Derstine is doing his best. What that tells us is there there is nothing, except one witness' statement, that indirectly conflicts with Tori's teacher's statement, to help.

Derstine cannot present character witnesses, because if he does, the Crown can rebut and I have a feeling that wouldn't be pretty.

All the other evidence corroborates what TLM said -- the videos, the BB, the women.

Certainly I don't have a reasonable doubt at this point.

Salem

Ardy
05-01-2012, 12:00 PM
She didnt lie about it. She was never asked the question.

TLM said she was outside and took a child at random.

She lied..............about the abduction and the murder.

JMO.

Alison
05-01-2012, 12:01 PM
Were staff members walking with VS down the sidewalk........in an identical coat?

What I am wondering about now is the VS teacher's testimony.

If she saw VS going out and then back to the classroom for her earrings, and then out again...............why didn't she see TLM?

There is no reason to disbelieve this witness. She has no credibility issues and no reason to hide anything or lie.

She was at the school often picking up her own grand kids.

Posters are making derogatory remarks about her......and don't even know anything about her........including her age.

If she says she saw TLM walking in the front door of the school...........TLM walked in the front door of the school.........IMO.

Believe the witness or TLM?...........................JMO.



What exactly are you implying? That the teacher lied? I am not sure I understand what it is you are saying. I agree we should not make fun of the gramma. However I believe if the teacher says that TS left the school alone that she left the school alone. I believe that the Gramma's memories have been altered as she has watched the video over and over and read information in the paper. I believe an expert witness in this field would testify that her memories are warped due to the conditions imposed on her. I also believe there would be some sort of surveilence of her entering the school IMO.

Wondergirl
05-01-2012, 12:01 PM
This is interesting.

Randy Richmond might be hosting a chat regarding the information that is going to be released out from under the Publication Ban.


11:55
Mike Knoll:

@kATIA - as a series of news stories. We are trying to organize a chat with Randy Richmond who is the absolute expert on this case.
Tuesday May 1, 2012 11:55 Mike Knoll

11:54
http://cdnsl.coveritlive.com/templates/coveritlive/images/spacer.gif[Comment From kATIA kATIA : ]

Will the additional information be posted in this forum or as a LFP news story

11:54
Mike Knoll:
@Lisa - I assume so.

Tuesday May 1, 2012 11:54 Mike Knoll

11:54
http://cdnsl.coveritlive.com/templates/coveritlive/images/spacer.gif[Comment From Lisa Lisa : ]

Will we find out info on TLM when the trial is over for MR. Will the ban be lifted from what happened with TLM?

myzzy
05-01-2012, 12:01 PM
Well, for one thing after this, I think Ontario should proceed with installing video camera's in ALL schools, public as well as private and secondary schools. Geesh. It is 2012 isn't it?

I couldnt agree more, these are our kids we are entrusting to our system. Keep them safe and falcalty safe also. I seriously doubt it would cost that much to enstall cameras in our schools, a one day drive could equip a single child school and if every school did it hmmmm...

Our goverment is starting to come around finally... Its a start
Harper Government announces new income support program for parents of victims of crime
http://http://merrifieldmp.com/?p=742

robynhood
05-01-2012, 12:01 PM
London Free Press
‏ @RaffertyLFP Follow
Cancel Court resuming, jury not in.

11:55 AM - 1 May 12 via Twitter for iPad · Embed this Tweet

jenniferleia
05-01-2012, 12:01 PM
The only thing....if she picked Tori right out from the inside of the school how did she know that Tori did not have a parent waiting outside. Did she just chance it?

Dmman
05-01-2012, 12:02 PM
Were staff members walking with VS down the sidewalk........in an identical coat?

What I am wondering about now is the VS teacher's testimony.

If she saw VS going out and then back to the classroom for her earrings, and then out again...............why didn't she see TLM?

There is no reason to disbelieve this witness. She has no credibility issues and no reason to hide anything or lie.

She was at the school often picking up her own grand kids.

Posters are making derogatory remarks about her......and don't even know anything about her........including her age.

If she says she saw TLM walking in the front door of the school...........TLM walked in the front door of the school.........IMO.

Believe the witness or TLM?...........................JMO.

You are absolutely right. But Grandmom wasn't too sure on some things as the crown has pointed out. I was implying that maybe she was mistaken about who she thought entered the school as opposed to who she saw walking with Tori.

~n/t~
05-01-2012, 12:04 PM
I didn't see any derogatory remarks being made about this witness. Some are questioning her memory which is what the Crown is doing.

Next.....


Is it over? Closing statements this afternoon, perhaps? We could be on verdict watch by tomorrow!!

Justice is coming Tori. Hope you're smiling down from heaven!! http://th1037.photobucket.com/albums/a454/redwine-n-strawberries/Roses%20Of%20All%20Colors/Purple%20Roses/th_purplerose5.gif

robynhood
05-01-2012, 12:04 PM
...looks like ready to start again soon....IMO...the circus will begin again...Hold on to your hats my friends..robynhood....not liking this IMO....what is DENFENSE trying to prove...????....IMo..seems ridiculious ...we shall see..I presume ...OMG..robynhood

Bravo
05-01-2012, 12:05 PM
There is no ineffective counsel here. Derstine is doing his best. What that tells us is there there is nothing, except one witness' statement, that indirectly conflicts with Tori's teacher's statement, to help.

Derstine cannot present character witnesses, because if he does, the Crown can rebut and I have a feeling that wouldn't be pretty.

All the other evidence corroborates what TLM said -- the videos, the BB, the women.

Certainly I don't have a reasonable doubt at this point.

Salem

Agree. He is doing his best with what he has to work with.

Wondergirl
05-01-2012, 12:05 PM
I cannot believe Derstine had 4 day's to prepare...and he gave us Grandma

Guess they couldn't pry Rafferty's fingers off the jail bars to testify how horrified he was

jmo


4 Days??!!

He had 3 years! ;-)

Sailor Bug
05-01-2012, 12:06 PM
where can I find the evidence files on the LFP website -

you'll have to sift through these galleries: http://www.lfpress.com/news/london/raffertytrial/2012/04/18/19651801.html

Kamille
05-01-2012, 12:06 PM
TLM said she was outside and took a child at random.

She lied..............about the abduction and the murder.

JMO.

Victoria's teacher testified that she left the school...out the doors and outside...alone.

The grandmother saw a woman in a white coat (with no distinctive stripes) enter the school. She did not see her leave. There is no proof that she saw TLM enter the school. Random witness testimony is notoriously inaccurate.

So wherever Victoria met up with TLM, it was outside.

No proof that TLM lied about anything.

MOO

crazyladi
05-01-2012, 12:07 PM
TLM said she was outside and took a child at random.

She lied..............about the abduction and the murder.

JMO.

How do you know that isnt true? We are taking information from a citizen that couldnt remember details from one interview to another. Sorry she didnt lie in my eyes.

myzzy
05-01-2012, 12:08 PM
TLM jacket - is it a full winter jacket or could it be used in the spring normally anyone happen to know, I believe it was a winter jacket ( snow jacket). just would like clarification if possible?

Wondergirl
05-01-2012, 12:09 PM
I can't really believe all Derstine has is Grandma!

What about the experts, to refute the hard physical evidence, placing MTR at all the different scenes? TLM being a liar doesn't refute THAT.

At the very least I expected an expert to refute the blood and video evidence.

Nada.

paris_paris
05-01-2012, 12:11 PM
I don't think TLM ever went inside the school. The grandmom has a faulty memory MOO. She even admitted she thought TLM was Tori's Mom.

I remember when the video first came out... and then the sketch. We all thought the sketch looked like Tara, and Tara's friend. Tara even made a point of wearing her white coat to one of the early PC's. As we saw more video of the searches, we saw more and more women who had white coats and had long dark hair pulled back so tight it raised their eyebrows.

nursebeeme
05-01-2012, 12:11 PM
I can't really believe all Derstine has is Grandma!

What about the experts, to refute the hard physical evidence, placing MTR at all the different scenes?

at this point I am just surprised he didn't go with a plea deal vs sitting thru three months of testimony.

If that is all the reasonable doubt the defense team has to throw at the wall.. well, I just am not sure anything is sticking (but then again usually to get something to stick you need to throw more than one thing at the wall)

just saying.

SideKick
05-01-2012, 12:12 PM
I can't believe there wasn't any other parents or teachers who saw McCL out there.. or if they did perhaps people generally think oh... no biggie, a babysitter for the day.
I think I am agreeing that we have no worries so to speak. We want MR looked after. Put away.. this will indeed happen if things con't to go this way.... shaking head for the millionth time.

Wondergirl
05-01-2012, 12:13 PM
Stafford trial: Rafferty won't testify in own defence


Choosing to not make an opening statement, defence lawyer Dirk Derstine declared he would be calling just one witness.

Read it on Global News: Global News | Stafford trial: Rafferty won't testify in own defence (http://www.globalnews.ca/stafford+trial+rafferty+wont+testify+in+own+defenc e/6442631898/story.html#ixzz1tdRN36pQ)

myzzy
05-01-2012, 12:13 PM
What if its all true, the teachers version and the witness today?

Possible scenario but probably did not happen this way but the defence could spin it.

TLM walks into the school just as Tori is going back for her earnings, TLM spots Tori and tells Tori she will meet her outside as she is picking her up as Tori darts past to get her earrings but the teacher did not see TLM because the bell rang, TLM then walks outside and Tori spots her, and the teacher see's Tori leave the school alone, Tori is walking hastly and catches up to TLM and then are seen by the other witness

Salem
05-01-2012, 12:14 PM
http://www.simcoereformer.ca/2012/03/06/tori-staffords-mother-to-take-stand
Tori Stafford's teacher breaks down in court

A couple of minutes before the dismissal bell rang, Victoria asked if she could go back in the class to get the butterfly earrings her mother had loaned her that day. Victoria came back after the bell had rung and the other children left, about a minute later.

Tori wasn’t wearing the earrings, so Murrell asked the girl if she had them.

Tori said “yep,” so the teacher assumed she had them in her backpack or pocket.

“OK, hon, we’ll see you tomorrow,” Murrell said.

“And then she went out the door,” she told the jury, her voice cracking with sorrow.

Which is much more believable than a woman's, busy with picking up her own grandchildren, somewhat confused and inconsistent testimony about seeing TLM go into the school. And even if she saw TLM go into the school, she did not see TLM come out. When putting the two testimonies side by side, it would be logical to conclude that TLM did NOT pick Tori up inside the school. Maybe because Tori was talking to her teacher?

Salem

snoofer
05-01-2012, 12:14 PM
She is on the stand to put further doubt in TLM's testimony!! For ME it will never change what I believe are hard facts of this case. Neither of these adults returned Tori Stafford home to her parents on April 8,2009!!!!!!!!

that is the only defense witness???? Sorry, behind here. Not seeing the point or what it changes... MOO

SideKick
05-01-2012, 12:15 PM
What if its all true, the teachers version and the witness today?

Possible scenario but probably did not happen this way but the defence could spin it.

TLM walks into the school just as Tori is going back for her earnings, TLM spots Tori and tells Tori she will meet her outside as she is picking her up as Tori darts past to get her earrings but the teacher did not see TLM because the bell rang, TLM then walks outside and Tori spots her, and the teacher see's Tori leave the school alone, Tori is walking hastly and catches up to TLM and then are seen by the other witness

..... If Tori was targeted. How would TLM know a mother or guardian wasn't outside waiting for her?