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SoSueMe
04-21-2012, 06:06 AM
Trial Discussion Thread:

reposting a few of the warnings:

Okay everybody - LISTEN UP! We are not bashing, accusing or blaming Tori's family here. It won't be allowed.

Children walk home from school every day without incident. Parents are not perfect, it's just not possible. Tori's parents DID NOT do this to her. TLM and an accomplice DID. That is where the blame goes.

We had a lot of family bashing in the early parts of this investigation after Tori went missing and a lot of baseless accusations - NONE OF WHICH PROVED TO BE TRUE. Victim and family bashing will not be allowed during this trial.

Thank you,
Salem

---------------------------------


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Sue aka SoSueMe
Websleuths Co-Owner

------

Please keep discussion focused on what has been presented in testimony and remember to link up as the partial publication ban is still in place


the crown's closing will take more than one day and will be presented in chapters:


the crown will present its case in chapters:

Chapter 1: The day of the kidnapping. The surveillance video showing Rafferty driving up the street outside Tori's school and McClintic walking Tori up the street. Witnesses from and around Oliver Stephens public school will talk about seeing Tori.
An identification officer will use photographs and maps to show the route from Woodstock to Guelph.
Tori's mother, Tara McDonald, will testify about the frantic hours the family spent looking for Tori.

Chapter 2: Terri-Lynne McClintic. "She was an essential part of all that happened," Gowdey said. "I expect her credibility will be a major issue in this case."

Chapter 3: Guelph -- video surveillance and bank records detailing the events there.

Chapter 4: the Mount Forest death scene, which the jury will visit. "It will be difficult to go to the very place where this happened, I know that, but understanding the crime scene is crucial to understanding the crime," Gowdey said. Photographs, some of them graphic, will be used to explain "exactly how the killing happened."
"Unfortunately it is only through them that you can fully understand (the) evidence," Gowdey said.

Chapter 5: Police interaction with Rafferty.

Chapter 6: The searches of Rafferty and McClintic's residences and the evidence found.

Chapter 7: The Honda Civic. What was found inside.

Chapter 8: Rafferty's connection to the Mount Forest area.

Chapter 9: Comments Rafferty made to friends after April 8. "He had some interesting things to say to other people about Terri-Lynne McClintic and about the kidnapping itself," Gowdey said.

Chapter 10: The May 15 weekend and Rafferty's actions.

Chapter 11: The BlackBerry. The BlackBerry allowed police to track his movements April 8 and after.

Chapter 12: A recap of the surveillance video.
http://www.lfpress.com/news/london/r.../19463111.html

Salem
05-06-2012, 09:55 PM
The Crown should finish today, according to the schedule. Maybe, just maybe, the judge will begin the jury instructions, also? One can hope, right?

Salem

SoSueMe
05-08-2012, 05:47 AM
*Bump*

~n/t~
05-08-2012, 06:12 AM
Good Morning!

http://www.sunnewsnetwork.ca/archives/sunnews/canada/media/2012/04/20120407-095456-g.jpg

http://victoria-stafford.gonetoosoon.org/file/scale__600x500/a913f7313095ed3e336ae5553d41a044/403638_1243057189.jpg





Sending butterfly kisses up in heaven, Victoria. Today, the Province of Ontario and all of Canada and the world will be by your side. Shine beautiful angel. We will never forget you. xoxo

~n/t~
05-08-2012, 06:18 AM
Crown begins closing argument at Rafferty trial


On Tuesday, Crown Attorney Kevin Gowdey will turn the podium toward the jury and address them with his closing argument, which is expected to be significantly longer than Derstine's.

http://www.newstalk1010.com/News/localnews/blogentry.aspx?BlogEntryID=10380818

snoofer
05-08-2012, 06:21 AM
Good Morning!

http://www.sunnewsnetwork.ca/archives/sunnews/canada/media/2012/04/20120407-095456-g.jpg

http://victoria-stafford.gonetoosoon.org/file/scale__600x500/a913f7313095ed3e336ae5553d41a044/403638_1243057189.jpg





Sending butterfly kisses up in heaven, Victoria. Today, the Province of Ontario and all of Canada and the world will be by your side. Shine beautiful angel. We will never forget you. xoxo

what a blessing TS was to her parents. The love just shines through in every photo of Tori with her mom and dad. MOO She was so loved. Very heavy heart this morning. Praying for justice for Tori and this family; Tori's mom and dad, brother, grandma's, aunts and uncles....

snoofer
05-08-2012, 07:00 AM
prays for justice with a resounding "thud" this week. MOO

IF the crown closing is longer than the defense closing it might not finish their closing today. JMO

matou
05-08-2012, 07:23 AM
Tori’s Father Rodney Stafford spoke with several Reporters during a court recess and says he sees the case much differently

"I'm not worried whatsoever. I'm actually pretty positive in what the Crown had to present. I think they have a pretty solid case".

http://www.1047.ca/local-news/michael-rafferty-trial

tmhco
05-08-2012, 08:04 AM
"And if that poor child wasn’t kidnapped as part of some male rape fantasy, why is it that Tori’s broken body was discovered buried in those garbage bags, her pants and underwear nowhere to be found?"


http://m.torontosun.com/2012/05/07/raffertys-mom-stands-by-her-son

greenthumb
05-08-2012, 08:19 AM
from article linked by tmhco above - http://m.torontosun.com/2012/05/07/raffertys-mom-stands-by-her-son


It was an excellent job of smoke and mirrors. But blaming McClintic hardly absolves his client.

Even if she was the director of the whole horrific plan, all of the exact same questions could be asked of Rafferty: If he was truly the innocent dupe, why didn’t he set Tori free when he realized she was being held against her will? If he wasn’t an active participant, why didn’t he throw the twisted McClintic out of his car and run back home to his mama?

This is exactly my thinking on the defence put forward yesterday. Every finger Derstine pointed at TLM served only to highlight all the other fingers pointing back at MR, IMO.

Yes, I know TLM is a liar... but the evidence corroborates her story. The only arguments I have read absolving MR of guilt seem to conveniently dismiss the corroborating evidence. There is no one peice of evidence that overwhelmingly proves his guilt, IMO - but all the evidence, taken together as a whole, including TLM's account of that day and the motive for kidnapping Tori, paint a very convincing picture of what transpired that day.

Just MOO.

I am trusting that justice will be served, and praying for the Stafford & McDonald families today.

Thanks to all those here who have kept us updated daily throughout the trial, I appreciate your efforts.

Ardy
05-08-2012, 08:43 AM
I think it is a pretty sad indictment of our media, when on the day of closing arguments by the defense, the headline and first couple of sentences in their stories, seek to trash the mother of the accused.

Verbally assailed because she doesn't come to trial, as if her presence in the courtroom would prove to increase or decrease her son's guilt in the crimes for which he is charged, and trashed by the media if she appears in support of her son, the media had already determined they are going to trash the woman regardless of what she does.

And then, in her own piece of forgettable literary flotsam, Christie Blatchford uses the word "scapegoat" to describe TLM.

A lot of words could be used to describe TLM...........but scapegoat wouldn't be one of them.

Deborah Murphy, Mr. Rafferty’s mother, was responding to a crush of cameras and reporters who twice swarmed her as she left the courthouse.

They shared a scapegoat, the 21-year-old who is already convicted for her role in the April 8, 2009, slaying of Woodstock’s Victoria (Tori) Stafford.

But where McClintic two years ago pleaded guilty to first-degree murder and is now serving a life sentence, Mr. Rafferty is pleading not guilty to that charge, and to kidnapping and sexual assault causing bodily harm.

http://fullcomment.nationalpost.com/2012/05/07/christie-blatchford-raffertys-lawyer-attacks-mcclintics-credibility-in-closing-argument-at-stafford-murder-trial/

If there is an concrete, unrefuted, undeniable evidence of anything in this trial..........it is that the press should not be trusted.

JMO

Ardy
05-08-2012, 08:57 AM
If a relative of mine was on trial for such hideous charges, and maintained their innocence, I would support them until the jury decided otherwise.

I would express my deep sorrow to the family of the victim directly and in person, if that was acceptable to them, but I certainly would not hold a press conference to satisfy the press hunger for a sensational headline for their evening news roundup or newspaper coverage.

JMO................

greenthumb
05-08-2012, 08:57 AM
I think it is a pretty sad indictment of our media, when on the day of closing arguments by the defense, the headline and first couple of sentences in their stories, seek to trash the mother of the accused.

Verbally assailed because she doesn't come to trial, as if her presence in the courtroom would prove to increase or decrease her son's guilt in the crimes for which he is charged, and trashed by the media if she appears in support of her son, the media had already determined they are going to trash the woman regardless of what she does.

I'm sorry but I don't know which articles you are referring to that 'trashed' MR's mother?

The headline from the one you linked is "Christie Blatchford: Rafferty’s lawyer attacks McClintic’s credibility in closing argument at Stafford murder trial" and the first sentence is "As it was outside the courthouse here, where Michael Rafferty’s mother was proclaiming the innocence of her son and blaming Terri-Lynne McClintic for “ruining our lives,” so it was inside it, where Mr. Rafferty’s lawyer, Dirk Derstine, was warning jurors not to believe a word McClintic said."

That is not 'trashing' her, it is stating facts, IMO.

From the Toronto Sun - http://m.torontosun.com/2012/05/07/raffertys-mom-stands-by-her-son

The headline is "Mandel: Rafferty's mom stands by her son" and the first few sentences are -


As this sad case finally draws to a close, there is at least one woman certain that the smirking man in the prisoner’s box did not abduct, rape and kill Tori Stafford.

But then she is Michael Rafferty’s mom.

In the trial’s nine weeks, Deborah Murphy hadn’t been spotted by the media until she quietly arrived Monday for the defence’s day-long closing argument. Her cane at her side, the well-dressed woman sat at the back of the courtroom, smiling at her son and closely listening to Dirk Derstine’s final efforts to convince jurors that the 31-year-old is not guilty of first-degree murder, sexual assault or kidnapping.

But then, his steadfast mother has never needed convincing.

Again, I don't see this as trashing her. It is a testament to a mother's love - to stand by him regardless. The adjectives used in the story are complimentary even - 'well dressed', 'smiling', 'steadfast'.

The only trashing I detect is trashing of MR himself. And IMO, he earned that.

All just MOO.

Were you referring to some other articles?

Thinkzerz
05-08-2012, 09:05 AM
“My son is innocent,” Murphy insisted before a crush of reporters who waited for her outside the courthouse. “And this could happen to any man walking around right now. Terri-Lynne McClintic has wrecked our lives and I just hope that justice is served and he is free.”

http://m.torontosun.com/2012/05/07/raffertys-mom-stands-by-her-son

Wow you don't hear her say anything about Tori and what her family has been through and their justice. Also we keep hearing the true story will come out. But i have yet to hear it. JMO And she says "And this could happen to any man walking around right now". Most men would have reported it. What was she meaning by this? Is she trying to say MR was blackmailed or something?

Flowercb
05-08-2012, 09:11 AM
"And if that poor child wasn’t kidnapped as part of some male rape fantasy, why is it that Tori’s broken body was discovered buried in those garbage bags, her pants and underwear nowhere to be found?"


http://m.torontosun.com/2012/05/07/raffertys-mom-stands-by-her-son

From this article:

"It was an excellent job of smoke and mirrors. But blaming McClintic hardly absolves his client."

This says it all! MOO!!!

Ardy
05-08-2012, 09:11 AM
What was the purpose of reporting she was there?

What does it matter if she was there or not?

What difference does it make if she walks with a cane?

Why post pictures of her?

I rest my case.............

JMO..............

Alison
05-08-2012, 09:17 AM
What was the purpose of reporting she was there?

What does it matter if she was there or not?

What difference does it make if she walks with a cane?

Why post pictures of her?

I rest my case.............

JMO..............

MR can be blamed for putting his mother in this position. JMO

nursebeeme
05-08-2012, 09:19 AM
well, she WAS there... as were a throng of media... She also put herself out there by making a statement to the media.

I guess it is what it is.

moo

Ardy
05-08-2012, 09:20 AM
As this sad case finally draws to a close, there is at least one woman certain that the smirking man in the prisoner’s box did not abduct, rape and kill Tori Stafford.

But then she is Michael Rafferty’s mom.

In the trial’s nine weeks, Deborah Murphy hadn’t been spotted by the media until she quietly arrived Monday for the defence’s day-long closing argument. Her cane at her side, the well-dressed woman sat at the back of the courtroom, smiling at her son and closely listening to Dirk Derstine’s final efforts to convince jurors that the 31-year-old is not guilty of first-degree murder, sexual assault or kidnapping.
But then, his steadfast mother has never needed convincing.

http://m.torontosun.com/2012/05/07/raffertys-mom-stands-by-her-son

The smirking man?...........But then she IS his mother?

Snide, smirky..............just plain weak journalism, pandering to societies seamiest emotions.

JMO........

JMO.........

myzzy
05-08-2012, 09:21 AM
Good morning everyone

I was reading through yesterdays threads trying to catch up and all I kept thinking was sometimes we show our age.

It is quite interesting when hearing views and opinions and without a doubt I think I can picture who is older and who is from a younger generation. Especially when it comes to MR sleeping around, It shows that the generation gap is quite large at least to me

I got into a conversation with my mother about sexual partners a year or two ago and could see the same reaction from my mother as so many here when it comes to sex..

So we took the conversation to 5 generations of adult females ( My GG is from hearsay but believed to be accurate) and my mother couldn't pick her mouth off the floor because she couldn't believe that having multiple sexual partners is more and more common

To hear in todays society that someone is very sexually active is normal especially to the younger generations but go back 50+ years and it would have been very well hidden if you had more then 1 or 2 sexual partners, it was frowned upon back in those days i believe

My Great Grandmother - 1 Lifelong Sexual Partner ( 1890? - 1974 ) Hearsay
My Grandmother - 2 lifelong sexual Partner ( 1932 - 2009)
My Mother - 4-5 lifelong sexual partners ( 1947 - 2012)
Me - 12+ lifelong sexual partners ( 1971 - 2012)
Daughter - 7 lifelong sexual partners ( 1993 -2012)

The reason i posted this was because of all the negative reactions to a very sexual lifestyle. I believe it is common.

greenthumb
05-08-2012, 09:28 AM
What was the purpose of reporting she was there?

What does it matter if she was there or not?

What difference does it make if she walks with a cane?

Why post pictures of her?

I rest my case.............

JMO..............

She is a player in this tragedy, in the same way that Tori's mom and dad and grandmother and aunt, etc. etc. are... and she has her son and his actions, or lack thereof, to thank for that. She is in the spotlight by a result of his involvement and that cannot be blamed on the media, IMO.

There have been pictures posted of many of Tori's family, so why is this any different? Did you also express outrage over their pictures being posted in the media?

Sorry, I don't get it.

In fact, I have sympathy for MR's mother. At the very least, when all is said and done, if she has followed this case at all, she will have learned (if she was previously unaware) that her son is a cad, a pimp, a liar and has such a faulty moral compass that, by his own lawyer's admission, covering up the murder of a child was not only ok by him, but he continued in a romantic relationship with the murderer.

That is knowledge that I would not wish on any mother.

But my sympathy for Tori's family runs deeper... Tori was the innocent in all of this.

All JMO.

Flowercb
05-08-2012, 09:31 AM
well, she WAS there... as were a throng of media... She also put herself out there by making a statement to the media.

I guess it is what it is.

moo

Absolutely, by making a statement, she was making a statement. So she will have to take the good with the bad. Mom was trying to make her son look good, with that brings forth other opinions.

Why didn't she take the stand? MOO.

JayFriend
05-08-2012, 09:37 AM
What was the purpose of reporting she was there?

What does it matter if she was there or not?

What difference does it make if she walks with a cane?

Why post pictures of her?

I rest my case.............

JMO..............

For weeks people have been asking, "Is anyone from MR's family in the courtroom?" and the answer has always been "No". So when his mother and her guy show finally show up, it isn't news?

Ardy
05-08-2012, 09:38 AM
People imply that MR's mother could in some way be responsible for the murder of TS, as a result of her actions or non actions... ..and at the same time claim immunity for the actions or non actions of others?

That is a double standard........by any other name.

JMO...............

Wondergirl
05-08-2012, 09:39 AM
Good-morning.

jenniferleia
05-08-2012, 09:39 AM
Good morning everyone

I was reading through yesterdays threads trying to catch up and all I kept thinking was sometimes we show our age.

It is quite interesting when hearing views and opinions and without a doubt I think I can picture who is older and who is from a younger generation. Especially when it comes to MR sleeping around, It shows that the generation gap is quite large at least to me

I got into a conversation with my mother about sexual partners a year or two ago and could see the same reaction from my mother as so many here when it comes to sex..

So we took the conversation to 5 generations of adult females ( My GG is from hearsay but believed to be accurate) and my mother couldn't pick her mouth off the floor because she couldn't believe that having multiple sexual partners is more and more common

To hear in todays society that someone is very sexually active is normal especially to the younger generations but go back 50+ years and it would have been very well hidden if you had more then 1 or 2 sexual partners, it was frowned upon back in those days i believe

My Great Grandmother - 1 Lifelong Sexual Partner ( 1890? - 1974 ) Hearsay
My Grandmother - 2 lifelong sexual Partner ( 1932 - 2009)
My Mother - 4-5 lifelong sexual partners ( 1947 - 2012)
Me - 12+ lifelong sexual partners ( 1971 - 2012)
Daughter - 7 lifelong sexual partners ( 1993 -2012)

The reason i posted this was because of all the negative reactions to a very sexual lifestyle. I believe it is common.

It is not just about the NUMBER of sexual partners you have, it is they way you TREAT them. His morals were not that of a normal person. He treated his women like puppets (and worse). JMO His sexuallity seemed devillish.

Wondergirl
05-08-2012, 09:43 AM
Absolutely, by making a statement, she was making a statement. So she will have to take the good with the bad. Mom was trying to make her son look good, with that brings forth other opinions.

Why didn't she take the stand? MOO.

BBM: She didn't take the stand, because in all likelihood, what she would have had to say, would have implicated her son.

That is the biggest issue the Jury will have, I believe.

The silence rings loud and clear, and attests to the cowardice and corroborates the guilt through the evidence, and it's undeniable fact.

There is no innuendo, smoke or mirrors with the hard physical evidence.

It is very strong, IMO.

JMO

Alison
05-08-2012, 09:44 AM
Good morning everyone

I was reading through yesterdays threads trying to catch up and all I kept thinking was sometimes we show our age.

It is quite interesting when hearing views and opinions and without a doubt I think I can picture who is older and who is from a younger generation. Especially when it comes to MR sleeping around, It shows that the generation gap is quite large at least to me

I got into a conversation with my mother about sexual partners a year or two ago and could see the same reaction from my mother as so many here when it comes to sex..

So we took the conversation to 5 generations of adult females ( My GG is from hearsay but believed to be accurate) and my mother couldn't pick her mouth off the floor because she couldn't believe that having multiple sexual partners is more and more common

To hear in todays society that someone is very sexually active is normal especially to the younger generations but go back 50+ years and it would have been very well hidden if you had more then 1 or 2 sexual partners, it was frowned upon back in those days i believe

My Great Grandmother - 1 Lifelong Sexual Partner ( 1890? - 1974 ) Hearsay
My Grandmother - 2 lifelong sexual Partner ( 1932 - 2009)
My Mother - 4-5 lifelong sexual partners ( 1947 - 2012)
Me - 12+ lifelong sexual partners ( 1971 - 2012)
Daughter - 7 lifelong sexual partners ( 1993 -2012)

The reason i posted this was because of all the negative reactions to a very sexual lifestyle. I believe it is common.

You have had as many partners in your whole life as he had going at once! There is a HUGE difference JMO
Also my friends range from about 26-34 and I can tell you I have never,ever witnessed someone having 12+ people on the go. I have seen 3-4 but not 12! Also the 3-4 were never girlfriends it was just casual seeing eachother.

maxfactor
05-08-2012, 09:46 AM
Absolutely, by making a statement, she was making a statement. So she will have to take the good with the bad. Mom was trying to make her son look good, with that brings forth other opinions.

Why didn't she take the stand? MOO.

That's a very good question!!!! IMO the defense didn't call anyone to the stand as character witnesses because they knew they had better not open that door!!! It's going to be very interesting in the days ahead to see what wasn't allowed as evidence because Derstine objected to it. I am sincerely hoping the jury can see through all of it, for justice for Tori but also to get MR off the streets. IMO he could do this again to another child if he is found not guilty. But that's just MOO and my biggest fear.

maxfactor
05-08-2012, 09:48 AM
People imply that MR's mother could in some way be responsible for the murder of TS, as a result of her actions or non actions... ..and at the same time claim immunity for the actions or non actions of others?

That is a double standard........by any other name.

JMO...............

I haven't seen anyone implying that MR's mother was in any way responsible for what happened. Did you read that somewhere?

nursebeeme
05-08-2012, 09:52 AM
Absolutely, by making a statement, she was making a statement. So she will have to take the good with the bad. Mom was trying to make her son look good, with that brings forth other opinions.

Why didn't she take the stand? MOO.

bbm: it is my "guess" (and opinion) that she didn't have anything to add to the Crown's case. She is a victim in this like all other family members surrounding both the victim and the perp(s) ((and alleged perp))

Sailor Bug
05-08-2012, 09:53 AM
Why will the judge's charge take so long? You said it could possibly take more than a day - what generally takes place that will take so long?

RaffertyLFP: Given the amount of ground they will cover it could take a full two days


Mike Knoll: - here is a definition I just found online: The judge's instructions to the jury concerning the law that applies to the facts of the case on trial.

The opinion expressed by the court to the jury, on the law arising out of a case before them.

It should contain a clear and explicit exposition of the law, when the points of the law in dispute arise out of the facts proved on the trial of the cause but the court ought at no time to undertake to decide the facts, for these are to be decided by the jury.

source: http://www.lectlaw.com/def/c163.htm



RaffertyLFP: Waiting for Rafferty trial to resume Crown will begin final arguments

~n/t~
05-08-2012, 09:55 AM
RaffertyLFP: Given the amount of ground they will cover it could take a full two days [via Twitter]

~n/t~
05-08-2012, 09:55 AM
Mike Knoll: @Alison - here is a definition I just found online: The judge's instructions to the jury concerning the law that applies to the facts of the case on trial.

The opinion expressed by the court to the jury, on the law arising out of a case before them.

It should contain a clear and explicit exposition of the law, when the points of the law in dispute arise out of the facts proved on the trial of the cause but the court ought at no time to undertake to decide the facts, for these are to be decided by the jury.

source: http://www.lectlaw.com/def/c163.htm

~n/t~
05-08-2012, 09:58 AM
bbm: it is my "guess" (and opinion) that she didn't have anything to add to the Crown's case. She is a victim in this like all other family members surrounding both the victim and the perp(s) ((and alleged perp))

I agree. Also, IMO, there was the risk of mom perjuring herself on the stand furthermore becoming a hostile witness for the Crown. They did not want to take that risk, imo. Her testimony wasn't needed.

TopTop
05-08-2012, 09:59 AM
9:57 [Comment From Marlene Marlene : ]
Beings as no court on the weekend, if Jury came to a decision would they have to wait until Monday morning.
9:58 Mike Knoll: @Marlene - in that case, the verdict would be delivered more or less immediately - not on the Monday. Tuesday May 8, 2012 9:58 Mike Knoll

Wondergirl
05-08-2012, 09:59 AM
RaffertyLFP: Given the amount of ground they will cover it could take a full two days [via Twitter]

The Crown have ALOT of evidence. There is no denying it.

It makes the Defense's silence absurd, that no defense was offered except to blame the partner in crime for everything.

It's like, "If I don't say anything, maybe it will all just go away".

The Defense should NEVER have given up their chance to go last in their closing arguments.

JMO

snoofer
05-08-2012, 10:00 AM
If a relative of mine was on trial for such hideous charges, and maintained their innocence, I would support them until the jury decided otherwise.

I would express my deep sorrow to the family of the victim directly and in person, if that was acceptable to them, but I certainly would not hold a press conference to satisfy the press hunger for a sensational headline for their evening news roundup or newspaper coverage.
JMO................

and in red is what makes you a decent person. JMO

nursebeeme
05-08-2012, 10:01 AM
wow... so they won't even let the jury work on the weekend or on monday yet they will still be sequestered...

with the instructions taking two days (possibly) this is going to most likely go well into next week

moo

nobodyzgirl
05-08-2012, 10:02 AM
What was the purpose of reporting she was there?

What does it matter if she was there or not?

What difference does it make if she walks with a cane?

Why post pictures of her?

I rest my case.............

JMO..............

I completely agree with you Ardy, it's no wonder she has stayed under the radar when her son was first arrested, no doubt because she knew she would have media camped at her door trying to take her picture and ask her tons of questions. She's not the one on trial, her son is, and as soon as the media realized who she was, they couldn't wait to get their hooks into her, so they could sensationalize anything she had to say. JMO

Ardy
05-08-2012, 10:02 AM
That's a very good question!!!! IMO the defense didn't call anyone to the stand as character witnesses because they knew they had better not open that door!!! It's going to be very interesting in the days ahead to see what wasn't allowed as evidence because Derstine objected to it. I am sincerely hoping the jury can see through all of it, for justice for Tori but also to get MR off the streets. IMO he could do this again to another child if he is found not guilty. But that's just MOO and my biggest fear.

If a long list of character witnesses would prove innocence, I think that Canadian Colonel could have presented hundreds, perhaps thousands, of witnesses to testify to his outstanding character, instead of pleading guilty. The list could have included the Minister of Defense and Prime Minister of Canada themselves..........but would it have made him innocent?

Character witnesses have no bearing on proof of guilt or innocence on specific criminal charges.

JMO............

Sailor Bug
05-08-2012, 10:03 AM
RaffertyLFP: Court resuming Jury coming in

Jurors arriving in the courtroom now.

~n/t~
05-08-2012, 10:04 AM
Here we go......


RaffertyLFP: Court resuming Jury coming in [via Twitter]

Jezbel
05-08-2012, 10:04 AM
What was the purpose of reporting she was there?

What does it matter if she was there or not?

What difference does it make if she walks with a cane?

Why post pictures of her?

I rest my case.............

JMO..............

Well in that case why report that RS is there, or TM, or any of the others, why say if they are wearing purple ribbons or bows.... etc etc.

His mother chose to speak, therefore it is going to be reported and pictures posted, if she didn't want to be seen she would not have said anything.

MOO

Alison
05-08-2012, 10:04 AM
wow... so they won't even let the jury work on the weekend or on monday yet they will still be sequestered...

with the instructions taking two days (possibly) this is going to most likely go well into next week

moo

Correct me if I am wrong Mike Knoll said they will work through the weekend and a verdict would be delivered immediatly as opposed to waiting for the Monday. moo

TopTop
05-08-2012, 10:05 AM
10:02 [Comment From Marlene Marlene : ]
So if a verdict is reached on ther weekend, then the Crown, Defence and Rafferty would have to come to the court room
10:03 Mike Knoll: @marlene - yes.

snoofer
05-08-2012, 10:06 AM
Good morning everyone

I was reading through yesterdays threads trying to catch up and all I kept thinking was sometimes we show our age.

It is quite interesting when hearing views and opinions and without a doubt I think I can picture who is older and who is from a younger generation. Especially when it comes to MR sleeping around, It shows that the generation gap is quite large at least to me

I got into a conversation with my mother about sexual partners a year or two ago and could see the same reaction from my mother as so many here when it comes to sex..

So we took the conversation to 5 generations of adult females ( My GG is from hearsay but believed to be accurate) and my mother couldn't pick her mouth off the floor because she couldn't believe that having multiple sexual partners is more and more common

To hear in todays society that someone is very sexually active is normal especially to the younger generations but go back 50+ years and it would have been very well hidden if you had more then 1 or 2 sexual partners, it was frowned upon back in those days i believe

My Great Grandmother - 1 Lifelong Sexual Partner ( 1890? - 1974 ) Hearsay
My Grandmother - 2 lifelong sexual Partner ( 1932 - 2009)
My Mother - 4-5 lifelong sexual partners ( 1947 - 2012)
Me - 12+ lifelong sexual partners ( 1971 - 2012)
Daughter - 7 lifelong sexual partners ( 1993 -2012)

The reason i posted this was because of all the negative reactions to a very sexual lifestyle. I believe it is common.

think weekly.....think weekly... MOO

Sailor Bug
05-08-2012, 10:06 AM
RaffertyLFP: Gowdey begins his final argument He says Rafferty and McClintic "were in this together, together they are guilty"

RaffertyLFP: Gowdey goes back to April 8 2009 when Tara MacDonald wondered where Tori was Gowdey said she was in Rafferty's car

TopTop
05-08-2012, 10:07 AM
RaffertyLFP: Gowdey begins his final argument He says Rafferty and McClintic "were in this together, together they are guilty" [via Twitter]

Sailor Bug
05-08-2012, 10:08 AM
Gowdey starts with "Michael Rafferty and Terri-Lynne McClintic were in this together"

Gowdey explains the events of April 8th, 2009. From Tara McDonald's perspective.

RaffertyLFP: Gowdey said Rafferty drove to a field 130 kilometres away and Tori is killed He says none of that is in question

impatientredhead
05-08-2012, 10:08 AM
Let me say I think he is guilty and will be found guilty of all charges. It makes zero difference to me whether he planned to kill the child he raped or not. He was there and he didn't do anything to prevent it. The story isn't that MR violently beat her to death with a hammer while a terrified woman, out weighed and out muscled and in fear for her own life in the middle of the woods with a hammer weilding lunatic. MR was physically incapable of stopping TLM? Give me a break.

BUT I do think MR's fantasy was the kidnap and rape and the murder was an adaptation to the situation, not planned. TLM says that he told her about his rape fantasies, that he showed her where single moms lived and which windows belonged to the kids (was probably going to try to talk her into a home invasion kidnapping instead of the brazen school abduction), TLM says that when they got to the car he was mad about how old Tori was, that younger ones are easier to manipulate. That certainly seems to imply that he has been molesting younger children, maybe nonverbal ages (any single mom that dated him has to be having nightmares).

I also think previous molestations make sense because most predators groom and escalate up to their true "fantasy". I doubt MR and his fixation on raping a child went from zero to a hundred in one afternoon. I think the age comment, the "you know I am going to ......", and the we can't keep her and we can't bring her back all indicate to me he had a younger victim in mind, one that couldn't testify or wouldn't be a good witness. If he has younger victims in his past that would support that idea.

They also had to stop for a murder weapon. They had no clue the missing person report hadn't been filed by then, that the car hadn't been spotted, his license plate recorded. That was a trip out of new born necessity.

He also turned his phone off and took the battery out so he was well aware of how that technology could be used BUT he turned it on to make a call during that timeframe anyway. Because he was late for whatever encounter he had lined up. His plan that day did not include enough time for a drug run, a weapon purchase, a drive to the final crime scene, repeat rape, murder and clean up. He probably didn't think TLM would actually kidnap a child in broad daylight in front of dozens of witnesses, and even if she was willing to do it what are the odds of her succeeding on her first time out.

As I said, I still think he is every bit as guilty as she is, but I do believe she is the one that killed Tori. He has the keen ability to target damaged women. He talked some woman in to being a paid whore and sending him the money! 16k. Then he finds TLM and her criminal/violent past and tells her if she loves him she will help him kidnap a child. Basically dares her like a third grader, I knew you wouldn't go through with it, you're all talk.

And TLM can try to paint this picture of her being a source of comfort and apologizing for his angry outbursts in the car, holding her hand while she pees blood between rapes but I think the scenario makes much more sense when you frame it as TLMs "gift" being met with hostility and criticism about her age, more angry outburst at the home depot, and then the overkill and brutality of the murder screams of jealousy to me.

I am torn between being shocked they got the car as clean as they did and dumbfounded that he still had the thing. He can turn a girl out, collect the cash, orchestrate a kidnapping and rape but it never occured to him to have someone buy him a car and sink or burn that one? Really?

nursebeeme
05-08-2012, 10:09 AM
Correct me if I am wrong Mike Knoll said they will work through the weekend and a verdict would be delivered immediatly as opposed to waiting for the Monday. moo

ahhh! thank you :-) I misread that portion...

I am glad that they are allowed to work thru the weekend

Sailor Bug
05-08-2012, 10:09 AM
RaffertyLFP: Gowdey thanks the jury for its service Says it will take more than a day to present his closing argument

As Tara worried, Tori was on the floor of this man's car (points to Rafferty).

Gowdey now thanking jurors for their attention during the trial. "You've served your community very well".

Gowdey notes his closing will be long for the jury, and himself.

greenthumb
05-08-2012, 10:10 AM
I completely agree with you Ardy, it's no wonder she has stayed under the radar when her son was first arrested, no doubt because she knew she would have media camped at her door trying to take her picture and ask her tons of questions. She's not the one on trial, her son is, and as soon as the media realized who she was, they couldn't wait to get their hooks into her, so they could sensationalize anything she had to say. JMO

But the media did not camp at her door or track her down. To all appearances, the media has been quite respectful of her privacy. I have seen very little in the media about her, until she appeared in court yesterday. But she was there, she did make a statement, and it was reported... just as it was reported when Tori's grandma and aunt were in court. She is part of this and it is the media's job to report. I have not read anywhere that any blame has been assigned to MR's mother, but if I did, THEN I would feel it was irresponsible, unfair and harrassing reporting.

All MOO

Sailor Bug
05-08-2012, 10:10 AM
RaffertyLFP: Gowdey says he will present all the evidence methodically presented in "chapters"

Gowdey promises not to be as methodical as the evidence was in the trial.

RaffertyLFP: Gowdey said there is no question Tori was kidnapped and murdered Gowdey said Rafferty is guilty of murder, sexual assault and kidnapping

nursebeeme
05-08-2012, 10:10 AM
so more than a day for the Crown's closing...

TopTop
05-08-2012, 10:10 AM
RaffertyLFP: Gowdey thanks the jury for its service Says it will take more than a day to present his closing argument [via Twitter]

nursebeeme
05-08-2012, 10:11 AM
bringing forward the chapters again for reference:


the crown will present its case in chapters:

Chapter 1: The day of the kidnapping. The surveillance video showing Rafferty driving up the street outside Tori's school and McClintic walking Tori up the street. Witnesses from and around Oliver Stephens public school will talk about seeing Tori.
An identification officer will use photographs and maps to show the route from Woodstock to Guelph.
Tori's mother, Tara McDonald, will testify about the frantic hours the family spent looking for Tori.

Chapter 2: Terri-Lynne McClintic. "She was an essential part of all that happened," Gowdey said. "I expect her credibility will be a major issue in this case."

Chapter 3: Guelph -- video surveillance and bank records detailing the events there.

Chapter 4: the Mount Forest death scene, which the jury will visit. "It will be difficult to go to the very place where this happened, I know that, but understanding the crime scene is crucial to understanding the crime," Gowdey said. Photographs, some of them graphic, will be used to explain "exactly how the killing happened."
"Unfortunately it is only through them that you can fully understand (the) evidence," Gowdey said.

Chapter 5: Police interaction with Rafferty.

Chapter 6: The searches of Rafferty and McClintic's residences and the evidence found.

Chapter 7: The Honda Civic. What was found inside.

Chapter 8: Rafferty's connection to the Mount Forest area.

Chapter 9: Comments Rafferty made to friends after April 8. "He had some interesting things to say to other people about Terri-Lynne McClintic and about the kidnapping itself," Gowdey said.

Chapter 10: The May 15 weekend and Rafferty's actions.

Chapter 11: The BlackBerry. The BlackBerry allowed police to track his movements April 8 and after.

Chapter 12: A recap of the surveillance video.
http://www.lfpress.com/news/london/r.../19463111.html

Sailor Bug
05-08-2012, 10:12 AM
RaffertyLFP: Gowdey explains that any kidnapping or sexual assault that leads to the death of the victim is 1st degree murder even it was not deliberate

"There can be three routes to first degree murder". He says killing during a kidnapping and/or sexual assault both qualify.

Wondergirl
05-08-2012, 10:12 AM
If a long list of character witnesses would prove innocence, I think that Canadian Colonel could have presented hundreds, perhaps thousands, of witnesses to testify to his outstanding character, instead of pleading guilty. The list could have included the Minister of Defense and Prime Minister of Canada themselves..........but would it have made him innocent?

Character witnesses have no bearing on proof of guilt or innocence on specific criminal charges.

JMO............

100% agree with what you say about the character witnesses for the disgraced former Colonel.

Even the despicable, disgraced former Colonel had the smallest, most minute shred of decency, to "man-up" when he had been caught, and tell LE where Jessica Lloyd's remains were, so, she could be brought home to rest peacefully, in a necklace around her dear Mother's neck, and bracelet around her dear Brother's arm.

AT LEAST HE DID THAT.

Many fine, upstanding citizens, were duped by the psychopathic, disgraced former Colonel, and many fine citizens were duped by Rafferty, as we have only just had a glimpse of thus far, IMO.

In my opinion, Rafferty had not a shred, not the most minute shred of decency to "man-up" when he had been caught, and tell LE where Victoria Stafford's remains were, so the sweet, innocent child could be brought home to rest beneath her angel gravestone.

JMO

~n/t~
05-08-2012, 10:13 AM
Steven D'Souza ‏ @cbcsteve
Crown Kevin Gowdey on the evidence in #Rafferty trial: "None of it is in issue in this trial. None of it."

Steven D'Souza ‏ @cbcsteve
Crown begins their closing: On #Rafferty and McClintic: Together they did this to Tori Stafford” “Together they are guilty”


Avery Moore ‏ @AveryFreeFMNews
Jury back in the court room. Gowdey begins his statement with, "Michael #Rafferty and Terri-Lynne McClintic were in this together."

~n/t~
05-08-2012, 10:13 AM
Steven D'Souza ‏ @cbcsteve
Gowdey: "No question Tori Stafford was kidnapped. No question Tori Stafford was murdered"

~n/t~
05-08-2012, 10:15 AM
Avery Moore ‏ @AveryFreeFMNews
"It's my turn now," Crown Attorney Kevin Gowdey says, before thanking jurors for their time. Says he will take more than a day.

Sailor Bug
05-08-2012, 10:15 AM
Gowdey says if they acted together to kill Tori, it doesn't matter who struck her with a hammer.

RaffertyLFP: Gowdey says it doesn't matter who actually killed Tori If Rafferty and McClintic worked together they are both guilty

myzzy
05-08-2012, 10:15 AM
It is not just about the NUMBER of sexual partners you have, it is they way you TREAT them. His morals were not that of a normal person. He treated his women like puppets (and worse). JMO His sexuallity seemed devillish.




You have had as many partners in your whole life as he had going at once! There is a HUGE difference JMO
Also my friends range from about 26-34 and I can tell you I have never,ever witnessed someone having 12+ people on the go. I have seen 3-4 but not 12! Also the 3-4 were never girlfriends it was just casual seeing eachother.

I agree he treated the women in his life not as he should have, most women would have walked away if treated like poooop. As much as this is going to sound like i'm blaming the women ( please don't think I am)but those who choose to be in any type of relationship with MR, knew how he was treating them and felt it was acceptable, because they choose to stay with him and let him do as he pleases. Not knowing your "guy" is in other relationships doesn't make him devilish it makes them a cheater.

My daughter has been with these type of men and while i see the wrong in it and most people would, She didn't, she could never see the wrong in how the guys in her life were treating her, even though she seen from my relationship with her dad on how someone is suppose to be treated when in a relationship.



Thank heaven, I'm in a loving relationship and will never be in a revolving door relationship

KMouse
05-08-2012, 10:16 AM
People imply that MR's mother could in some way be responsible for the murder of TS, as a result of her actions or non actions... ..and at the same time claim immunity for the actions or non actions of others?

That is a double standard........by any other name.

JMO...............

I haven't read anything to that effect.

Sailor Bug
05-08-2012, 10:16 AM
Rafferty trial closing arguments

10:16 RaffertyLFP: Gowdey admits that McClintic probably lied in her testimony but not about the key elements of what happened

Gowdey told the jury McClintic's credibility would be questioned. Notes her actual evidence wasn't attacked in a significant way.

Sailor Bug
05-08-2012, 10:17 AM
RaffertyLFP: Gowdey said there is independent evidence that confirms key details of McClintic's testimony

~n/t~
05-08-2012, 10:17 AM
Steven D'Souza ‏ @cbcsteve
Gowdey says no matter who struck Tori: "... if all of you believe that they acted in planning and deliberating that's enough to convict"

Wondergirl
05-08-2012, 10:17 AM
Cristina Tenaglia ‏ @cristina_CHCHTV (https://twitter.com/#%21/cristina_CHCHTV)

(https://twitter.com/#%21/cristina_CHCHTV) #Rafferty (https://twitter.com/#%21/search/%23Rafferty) Crown Kevin Gowdey was also the Crown for the Bandidos murder trial. #London (https://twitter.com/#%21/search/%23London)

Sailor Bug
05-08-2012, 10:18 AM
McClintic's life style was attacked. Not her version of April 8th, 2009, Gowdey tells the jury.

Gowdey did say there is "no question" the jury will find McClintic lied during some parts of her testimony.

Wondergirl
05-08-2012, 10:18 AM
.James Armstrong ‏ @jamesarmstrong7 (https://twitter.com/#%21/jamesarmstrong7)

(https://twitter.com/#%21/jamesarmstrong7) "what they [defence] did not do is attack [McClintic's] story about what happened." crown #rafferty (https://twitter.com/#%21/search/%23rafferty)

Wondergirl
05-08-2012, 10:19 AM
Cristina Tenaglia ‏ @cristina_CHCHTV (https://twitter.com/#%21/cristina_CHCHTV)

(https://twitter.com/#%21/cristina_CHCHTV) "If they acted together...it doesn't matter who physically brought her death.". #Rafferty (https://twitter.com/#%21/search/%23Rafferty) crown

Wondergirl
05-08-2012, 10:19 AM
Laura Carney ‏ @TheLC_75 (https://twitter.com/#%21/TheLC_75)

(https://twitter.com/#%21/TheLC_75) Gowdey says he'd warned the jury from the start McClintic's credibility would be called into question. #Rafferty (https://twitter.com/#%21/search/%23Rafferty)

~n/t~
05-08-2012, 10:19 AM
Steven D'Souza ‏ @cbcsteve
Crown: Defence spoke a lot about McClintic's character, but about who did what and who was where? There was not a lot.

Steven D'Souza ‏ @cbcsteve
On Defence attacking McClintic's credibility: "What they did not do is attack her evidence of what happened in any significant way."


Avery Moore ‏ @AveryFreeFMNews
A murder is 1st degree if it's 1) planned and deliberate, or 2) during a kidnapping, or 3) during a sexual assault, Gowdey says.

Wondergirl
05-08-2012, 10:20 AM
Avery Moore ‏ @AveryFreeFMNews (https://twitter.com/#%21/AveryFreeFMNews)

(https://twitter.com/#%21/AveryFreeFMNews) A murder is 1st degree if it's



1) planned and deliberate, or



2) during a kidnapping, or



3) during a sexual assault,


Gowdey says. #Rafferty (https://twitter.com/#%21/search/%23Rafferty)

Sailor Bug
05-08-2012, 10:20 AM
RaffertyLFP: Gowdey says Rafferty knew what was going to happen to Tori Stafford He was leading the events of April 8 2009

"Even if you accept Terri-Lynne McClintic was the one with the hammer, it doesn't matter"

Gowdey says it is unrealistic to believe Rafferty didn't know what would happen on April 8th. He destroyed evidence.

RaffertyLFP: Gowdey said Rafferty engineered all the cover up the crime. He said the events are not the actions of McClintic alone

Sailor Bug
05-08-2012, 10:22 AM
RaffertyLFP: Gowdey said McClintic was a"violent pawn" used by Rafferty. He was not an innocent bystander but an active paricipant

Those are not the actions of a homicidal girl acting alive, Gowdey says. "She was the violent pawn Michael Rafferty used"

Wondergirl
05-08-2012, 10:22 AM
Steven D'Souza ‏ @cbcsteve
Crown: Defence spoke a lot about McClintic's character, but about who did what and who was where? There was not a lot.

Steven D'Souza ‏ @cbcsteve
On Defence attacking McClintic's credibility: "What they did not do is attack her evidence of what happened in any significant way."


Avery Moore ‏ @AveryFreeFMNews
A murder is 1st degree if it's 1) planned and deliberate, or 2) during a kidnapping, or 3) during a sexual assault, Gowdey says.

BBM: Proponents for Rafferty would have us believe that Rafferty's terrible character, does not impact whether he is guilty of the crimes or not, but yet, Rafferty's entire case is built around McClintic's terrible character.

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

JMO

Wondergirl
05-08-2012, 10:23 AM
Steven D'Souza ‏ @cbcsteve (https://twitter.com/#%21/cbcsteve)

(https://twitter.com/#%21/cbcsteve) Crown on #Rafferty (https://twitter.com/#%21/search/%23Rafferty): We ask you to consider how completely unrealistic it is that MR was unaware of what was happening to Victoria #sl (https://twitter.com/#%21/search/%23sl)

Wondergirl
05-08-2012, 10:24 AM
Right out of the gate, the Crown is quashing the entire defense.

Go, Crown, go!!!!!





JMO

Sailor Bug
05-08-2012, 10:24 AM
Gowdey tells the jury Rafferty drove by OSPS three times on April 8th. Describes frantic search.

RaffertyLFP: Gowdey begins Chapter 1 the abduction At 3:20 Tori leaves school Court is shown picture of Tori

~n/t~
05-08-2012, 10:26 AM
Steven D'Souza ‏ @cbcsteve
Crown on McClintic: "She was the violent pawn that Michael Rafferty used to make this happen for himself"

Steven D'Souza ‏ @cbcsteve
Crown on #Rafferty: We ask you to consider how completely unrealistic it is that MR was unaware of what was happening to Victoria


Avery Moore ‏ @AveryFreeFMNews
"...McClintic did not do this by herself," Gowdey says. "She was the violent pawn that Mr. #Rafferty used to make this happen for himself."

Sailor Bug
05-08-2012, 10:26 AM
RaffertyLFP: Gowdey says McClintic was captured on CASS camera walking Tori to Rafferty's car Court sees the video

Describing what Tori did on April 8th. Her teacher told her "we'll see you tomorrow". Photo of Tori shown to the jury.

RaffertyLFP: Court is seeing a video of a car exiting the nursing home parking lot

snoofer
05-08-2012, 10:26 AM
Gowdey tells the jury Rafferty drove by OSPS three times on April 8th. Describes frantic search.

RaffertyLFP: Gowdey begins Chapter 1 the abduction At 3:20 Tori leaves school Court is shown picture of Tori

i wish i knew which beautiful picture of tori it is they are showing MOO

Sailor Bug
05-08-2012, 10:27 AM
Jury now seeing the CASS video. Now, video of Rafferty's car driving by.

Now, camera shows the shots from the Parkinson Road Esso.

RaffertyLFP: Gowdey said the cameras captured Rafferty's car near CASS several times and at the gas station

~n/t~
05-08-2012, 10:28 AM
Steven D'Souza ‏ @cbcsteve
Crown now taking jury through timeline of Apr. 8/09, the day Tori was taken. Showing stills and video around school

maxfactor
05-08-2012, 10:28 AM
If a long list of character witnesses would prove innocence, I think that Canadian Colonel could have presented hundreds, perhaps thousands, of witnesses to testify to his outstanding character, instead of pleading guilty. The list could have included the Minister of Defense and Prime Minister of Canada themselves..........but would it have made him innocent?

Character witnesses have no bearing on proof of guilt or innocence on specific criminal charges.

JMO............

No I realize that but my point was that it's MOO there were things that couldn't be introduced at trial because they led to his character, if Derstine called any character witnesses he would have opened the door for those things to be presented to the jury. That's MOO.

Sailor Bug
05-08-2012, 10:29 AM
RaffertyLFP: Gowdey said Rafferty's got gas for the long trip to Mount Forest

Rafferty had an "obvious plan to leave town" and got gas before Tori was in the car.

RaffertyLFP: Gowdey said there is no evidence that McClintic knew Tori that is backed up by Tara MacDonald

Salem
05-08-2012, 10:30 AM
People imply that MR's mother could in some way be responsible for the murder of TS, as a result of her actions or non actions... ..and at the same time claim immunity for the actions or non actions of others?

That is a double standard........by any other name.

JMO...............

Where did anyone imply this? Please alert the post if such things are being implied.

The rule is the families - all of them - are victims in this case and are not to bash, trashed or otherwise. Including subtle hints and implications. So if you see such posts - alert them. Don't respond to them.

Salem

Sailor Bug
05-08-2012, 10:31 AM
RaffertyLFP: Gowdey said McClintic was able to manipulate Tori Gowdey asks if McClintic's plan - what was the plan?

The defense suggestion Tori knew McClintic was not in evidence, Gowdey says. "Some children are street smart, some are not".

RaffertyLFP: Gowdey asks why Rafferty parked at the nursing home it it was an innocent pickup of a child

snoofer
05-08-2012, 10:32 AM
RS wondered if MTR was joking around and smiling so much yesterday that he truly believe he would be going home soon. Wonders if later today MTR will still be laughing and joking in his belief he might be going home..... MOO

Sailor Bug
05-08-2012, 10:33 AM
Gowdey says if this was all innocent, what could McClintic have possibly told Rafferty about what the plan was for Tori?

Gowdey asks if it was innocent, why would Rafferty park down the street at the retirement home? In a parking lot concealed by trees?

RaffertyLFP: Gowdey points out that Rafferty's house was not far from Oliver Stephens and he drove around the neighborhood

Oldsoul2
05-08-2012, 10:33 AM
Holy Moly if they were even to stop right now he is toast..

myzzy
05-08-2012, 10:34 AM
i wish i knew which beautiful picture of tori it is they are showing MOO

I Would assume it was her last school photo that was taken around the time of the murder ( week or two i cant remember when it was taken) It was a great picture and it being her last one makes it even more precious.

~n/t~
05-08-2012, 10:34 AM
Avery Moore ‏ @AveryFreeFMNews
The Crown questions why #Rafferty wouldn't have pulled up next to the school if he thought McClintic was picking up a family friend?

Sailor Bug
05-08-2012, 10:35 AM
RaffertyLFP: Gowdey points out that Rafferty's house was not far from Oliver Stephens and he drove around the neighborhood

RaffertyLFP: Gowdey said Oliver Stephens was good for a quick getaway because of access to 401

Derstine suggests McClintic picked that school and picked Tori. McClintic said he was "scoping out" schools.

OSPS is "well suited" for the plan devised for the kidnapping, Gowdey says. Long hill, close to 401.

Sailor Bug
05-08-2012, 10:36 AM
RaffertyLFP: Gowdey said McClintic was used for abduction because she would attract less suspicion

RaffertyLFP: Gowdey said Rafferty could always drive away if things went wrong

Yody04
05-08-2012, 10:36 AM
go Gowdey go !!!!


I am having the chills :-)




JUSTICE FOR TORI

~n/t~
05-08-2012, 10:36 AM
Steven D'Souza ‏ @cbcsteve
Crown on Defence saying McClintic targetted Tori: “There is no evidence that she did, no evidence at all”

Sailor Bug
05-08-2012, 10:36 AM
McClintic was much less likely to attract suspicion. She was a pawn. What if something went wrong? He had an easy escape route.

Rafferty had escape routes the whole day. "He had the keys. It was his car."

RaffertyLFP: Gowdey said Rafferty chose nursing home parking lot was secluded and gave him a good escape route if something went wrong

~n/t~
05-08-2012, 10:37 AM
Steven D'Souza ‏ @cbcsteve
Crown: Oliver Stephens Public school was well suited for a plan devised for a kidnapping. Close to 401

Sailor Bug
05-08-2012, 10:38 AM
Gowdey suggested Rafferty would have asked more questions, and not waited up the street, if he thought it was a school pick up.

If this was all innocent, is it realistic he wouldn't ask questions? Gowdey wonders.

RaffertyLFP: Gowdey asks why Rafferty did not ask questions Who is this girl? Why are picking her up? Where is the mother?

Sailor Bug
05-08-2012, 10:39 AM
RaffertyLFP: Gowdey said McClintic had no connections to children

The only time the two discussed children was Rafferty saying how easy it would be to grab a child.

RaffertyLFP: Gowdey deals with testimony that McClintic went into school He says she wouldn't know where to go

Sailor Bug
05-08-2012, 10:40 AM
RaffertyLFP: Gowdey said Tori's teacher did not see McClintic nor did anyone else

Gowdey says it would be difficult to target Tori. How would she find Tori?

Gowdey suggests the evidence given by the grandmother called for the defense may have been wrong.

~n/t~
05-08-2012, 10:41 AM
Avery Moore ‏ @AveryFreeFMNews
Gowdey asks the jury why #Rafferty didn't see red flags about the pick-up plan. Didn't ask any questions, if he didn't know who Tori was.

~n/t~
05-08-2012, 10:42 AM
Steven D'Souza ‏ @cbcsteve
Gowdey says Rafferty ready if things went wrong “All he had to do if things were not right was drive away, he had the keys, it was his car”

brighidin
05-08-2012, 10:42 AM
[I]As this sad case finally draws to a close, there is at least one woman certain that the smirking man in the prisoner’s box did not abduct, rape and kill Tori Stafford.

But then she is Michael Rafferty’s mom.


http://m.torontosun.com/2012/05/07/raffertys-mom-stands-by-her-son

The smirking man?...........But then she IS his mother?

Snide, smirky..............just plain weak journalism, pandering to societies seamiest emotions.

JMO........

JMO.........

SBM
Do you know anything about the history of journalism? Not being snide, but if you did, you wouldn't be surprised. Besides, you are quoting from the Sun and the NP. What do you expect? The Sun is a tabloid, and the Post pays CB to write polarizing opinionated columns.

tmhco
05-08-2012, 10:42 AM
AM980.ca (@AM980_Court)
5/8/12 9:33 AM
Gowdey asks if it was innocent, why would Rafferty park down the street at the retirement home? In a parking lot concealed by trees?


BINGO!

Sailor Bug
05-08-2012, 10:42 AM
She only got a "fleeting glimpse" of Tori and McClintic. But her perceptions may be wrong, due to "flood of publicity".

RaffertyLFP: Gowdey said the Woodstock witness only got a "fleeting glimpse" of McClintic and Tori and her memory may have been affected by coverage

JayFriend
05-08-2012, 10:43 AM
RaffertyLFP: Gowdey said McClintic was able to manipulate Tori Gowdey asks if McClintic's plan - what was the plan?

The defense suggestion Tori knew McClintic was not in evidence, Gowdey says. "Some children are street smart, some are not".

RaffertyLFP: Gowdey asks why Rafferty parked at the nursing home it it was an innocent pickup of a child

BBM

While it may not have been in evidence, I still believe Tori and TLM remembered each other from meeting at TLM's house. Tara said TLM was high and "out of it" and didn't know what was going on, but I doubt it. Children remember a lot more than their parents are aware of. It's not inconceivable that Tori was targeted, but it still makes no difference to the Crown's case. JOM

~n/t~
05-08-2012, 10:43 AM
Steven D'Souza ‏ @cbcsteve
Crown says Grandma who testified she saw McClintic walk in to school had her memory affected media coverage

Steven D'Souza ‏ @cbcsteve
Gowdey lists nearly a dozen questions #Rafferty should have asked, but didn't, if it was McClintic's plot to take Tori


Avery Moore ‏ @AveryFreeFMNews
Crown trying to shoot down the defence's argument that McClintic knew Tori Stafford. Says teacher didn't see McC leave with Tori.

TopTop
05-08-2012, 10:43 AM
So far I really like the way the Crown is presenting their closing arguments. Very methodical, going step by step and extremely clear. Works well with the way my mind works.

Sailor Bug
05-08-2012, 10:45 AM
Her description of McClibtic's jacket different from how it actually looked, Gowdey says. Seems like she remembers video from the news.

RaffertyLFP: Gowdey said the Woodstock witness memory of McClintic's coat was faulty

sillybilly
05-08-2012, 10:45 AM
BBM

While it may not have been in evidence, I still believe Tori and TLM remembered each other from meeting at TLM's house. Tara said TLM was high and "out of it" and didn't know what was going on, but I doubt it. Children remember a lot more than their parents are aware of. It's not inconceivable that Tori was targeted, but it still makes no difference to the Crown's case. JOM

Tara was at CM's .. Tori was NOT.

AbbeyR
05-08-2012, 10:47 AM
So far I really like the way the Crown is presenting their closing arguments. Very methodical, going step by step and extremely clear. Works well with the way my mind works.

Yes - the chapters were a brilliant idea. Now the whole story is just falling into place. I'm so relieved that closing arguments are so clear and powerful. What a change from yesterday!!

Sailor Bug
05-08-2012, 10:47 AM
The grandmother said the child was talking a mile a minute, but her windows were up, caught a quick glance.

RaffertyLFP: Gowdey questions the "stern look " on McClintic's face during abduction say the evidence is not reliable

Oldsoul2
05-08-2012, 10:47 AM
So far I really like the way the Crown is presenting their closing arguments. Very methodical, going step by step and extremely clear. Works well with the way my mind works.

I agree totally....It's called logical reasoning which we didnt get from the defense

Sailor Bug
05-08-2012, 10:48 AM
Grandmother said McClintic looked stern. But, that wouldn't fit with her knowing Tori, according to Derstine's theory from yesterday.

RaffertyLFP: Gowdey said Raffery's car drove by CASS at 9:04 am when McClintic was at a grocery store

~n/t~
05-08-2012, 10:49 AM
Avery Moore ‏ @AveryFreeFMNews
McClintic was not the one masterminding the abduction of a child around 9:00 am that morning, Gowdey tell the jury.

Avery Moore ‏ @AveryFreeFMNews
Gowdey says at 9:04 am, #Rafferty was the one driving by the school. McClintic was picking up a food voucher and grocery shopping.


Avery Moore ‏ @AveryFreeFMNews
Gowdey continues to question story of defence's only witness, who said she saw a woman in a white jacket go into the school.

Sailor Bug
05-08-2012, 10:50 AM
RaffertyLFP: Gowdey said the forensic evidence gives a strong indication that the videos captured Rafferty's car at several times

Now going over McClintic's testimony. She, it has been proven, was shopping at 9:04, not driving by Oliver Stephens with Rafferty.

"In my, lay person's language, it sure looked like the same car," Gowdey says of 9:94 video.

Sailor Bug
05-08-2012, 10:50 AM
RaffertyLFP: Gowdey said Rafferty was "scoping out" Oliver Stephens at 9:04 pm

"Isn't it most likely Rafferty was scoping out" the area of the school, where he could drop off McClintic, hide.

Car spotted again at 3:30. McClibtic dropped off near the school, but walked to retirement home with Tori.

~n/t~
05-08-2012, 10:51 AM
Steven D'Souza ‏ @cbcsteve
Gowdey goes after Defence's only witness: says she didn't see enough, memory mistaken, her testimony doesn't add up

~n/t~
05-08-2012, 10:52 AM
Steven D'Souza ‏ @cbcsteve
Gowdey asks if it's a coincidence that #Rafferty drove by school twice if he didn't know McClintic was planning kidnapping

~n/t~
05-08-2012, 10:53 AM
Avery Moore ‏ @AveryFreeFMNews
"After dropping Terri-Lynne McClintic nearer to the school, why not stay there if your intentions are innocent?" Gowdey asks

Sailor Bug
05-08-2012, 10:54 AM
RaffertyLFP: Gowdey said Tori was not targeted by McClinitic How did she knew it was her first day walking home alone and not with brother?

Derstine suggests this was all innocent. He suggested Tori was targeted. His logic and mathematics "may have some initial appeal" they don't

...work out. How could McClintic have known Tori was walking alone? If Tori left willingly, why park down the street? Unless his...

...intentions were not innocent.

"He minimized his exposure and maximized her exposure whenever possible"

Sailor Bug
05-08-2012, 10:56 AM
RaffertyLFP: Gowdey said Rafferty was always in control and stayed in familiar places Court is recessed for morning break

Break. 20 minutes.

~n/t~
05-08-2012, 10:58 AM
Avery Moore ‏ @AveryFreeFMNews
20 minute break called.

1m Avery Moore ‏ @AveryFreeFMNews
"If Terri-Lynne McClintic left willingly with Tori why park down the street? Unless his intentions were not innocent at all?"

nursebeeme
05-08-2012, 10:58 AM
thanks to everyone for posting the tweets!

The Crown is doing a beautiful job so far in re-covering their meticulous timeline. I am sure the jury appreciates such a cogent presentation.

moo

nettie_82
05-08-2012, 10:58 AM
I have not seen any tweets of Rafferty's expression today.

nursebeeme
05-08-2012, 10:59 AM
one of the best points made (from SB's tweet above):

"He minimized his exposure and maximized her exposure whenever possible"

Sailor Bug
05-08-2012, 11:05 AM
Is Rafferty's mother in court today?

Mike Knoll: - she hasn't been seen by our photographer.

robynhood
05-08-2012, 11:06 AM
..just got home and I am turning on tweeter to help out here again today...robynhood!...Go Crown go ...Imo you are doing an excellent Job to date ...:) robynhood

Confusedashell
05-08-2012, 11:06 AM
Are his mom and her partner in the court room today??

brighidin
05-08-2012, 11:07 AM
Is Rafferty's mother in court today?

Mike Knoll: - she hasn't been seen by our photographer.


Are his mom and her partner in the court room today??

Doesn't seem to be.

Oldsoul2
05-08-2012, 11:07 AM
Is Rafferty's mother in court today?

Mike Knoll: - she hasn't been seen by our photographer.

Strange that she is spotted when the defense was up but not when the Crown is speaking.

Yody04
05-08-2012, 11:09 AM
Strange that she is spotted when the defense was up but not when the Crown is speaking.

I feel bad for her. This must be so hard to exept....

Confusedashell
05-08-2012, 11:14 AM
I feel bad for her. This must be so hard to exept....
Yes I am sure it is but not once while she was speaking yesterday did she give the McDonalds or the Staffords family her condolences or ask for justice for Tori. It was all about her son. She seems like a sweet lady and don't get my wrong I am not attacking in any ways but really MR and his Mother seem to be one of the same in many ways. Always concerned about themselves and family no one else might possible hurting. JMO

tmhco
05-08-2012, 11:15 AM
Anyone else feel like the universe is back in alignment? The Crown has this in the bag. Amen. JMO

robynhood
05-08-2012, 11:16 AM
RaffertyLFP Correction on earlier tweet Rafferty's car seen on video at 9:04 AM not pm

~n/t~
05-08-2012, 11:16 AM
RaffertyLFP: Correction on earlier tweet Rafferty's car seen on video at 9:04 AM not pm [via Twitter]


RaffertyLFP: Gowdey continues final arguments [via Twitter]

robynhood
05-08-2012, 11:16 AM
AveryFreeFMNews "If Terri-Lynne McClintic left willingly with Tori why park down the street? Unless his intentions were not innocent at all?" #Rafferty

robynhood
05-08-2012, 11:18 AM
...they are back form recess ..20 min break over But hang on fellow sleuthers as tweets are coming in slow at the moment...robynhood

~n/t~
05-08-2012, 11:18 AM
I always worry when there is a pause in the tweets. LFP said they were back and now it's been 5 minutes without a tweet.

JayFriend
05-08-2012, 11:19 AM
Strange that she is spotted when the defense was up but not when the Crown is speaking.
Clearly, the Defence's arguments were something she wanted to hear, but the Crown's closing arguments would be too hard for her to bear.

~n/t~
05-08-2012, 11:20 AM
Steven D'Souza ‏ @cbcsteve
before break Crown:"If Victoria left willingly with TLM, why park down the street, unless his intentions were not innocent at all?"

LoyalSleuth
05-08-2012, 11:20 AM
I saw yesterday on twitter that Derstine mentioned a "decision tree" or something like that, it will be given to the jury... Is anyone familiar with this?

I would love to see a sample... Also, does anyone know if this will be provided to the media as was all the evidence?

many thanks,
LS

robynhood
05-08-2012, 11:21 AM
AM980_Court "He minimized his exposure and maximized her exposure whenever possible"..tweeter .before BREAK

..something else came in on tweeter after break but NOt Posted yet to copy...real slow at the moment ...NOt sure ...why???

LilyMacBloom
05-08-2012, 11:23 AM
TMHO....I was thinking EXACTLY the same thing!
Yesterday morning I got up so early feeling apprehension and just plain upset and that feeling stayed with me all through reading Def.

Somehow, today, I'm feeling pretty calm. (not that it matters how I feel)

I'll like Mr. Gowdy!!! he gives me the same feeling Det Smyth does. Very competent.

nd

~n/t~
05-08-2012, 11:24 AM
Steven D'Souza ‏ @cbcsteve
Crown attacking theory of McClintic as mastermind: "how could she target Tori on the very first day she would be walking home alone?

Sailor Bug
05-08-2012, 11:24 AM
RaffertyLFP: Court is resumed jury still out

~n/t~
05-08-2012, 11:24 AM
RaffertyLFP: Court is resumed jury still out [via Twitter]



*sigh*

robynhood
05-08-2012, 11:25 AM
RaffertyLFP Court is resumed jury still out...just a few sec ago....

Sailor Bug
05-08-2012, 11:27 AM
Mike Knoll: Here's Hank Daniszewski's morning update:
After years of investigation and more than two months of testimony, Crown Attorney Kevin Gowdey began his final argument Tuesday for convicting Michael Rafferty for the 2009 murder of eight-year-old Victoria (Tori) Stafford.
Gowdey told the jury that Rafferty and his former girlfriend Terri-LynneMcClintic "were in this together, together they are guilty."
Rafferty, 31, has pleaded not guilty to first-degree murder, sexual assault and kidnapping in the death of the eight-year-old Woodstock school girl.
At the start of what is expected to be two days of argument, Gowdey told the jury that any kidnapping or sexual assault that leads to the death of the victim requires a conviction of first degree murder and Rafferty and McClintic collaborated.
"Even if Terri-Lynne McClintic was the one with the hammer, it doesn't matter," he said.
Rafferty drove around Oliver Stephens school and got gas for the long trip to Mount Forest. He parked at a nursing home parking lot because it was secluded and had easy access to Hwy 401, Gowdey said.
Gowdey said Rafferty "scoped out" Oliver Stephens school when his car was captured by a video camera at 9:04 a.m. on April 8, 2009.
Gowdey dismissed defense evidence of a Woodstock woman who said she saw McClintic enter the school and walk "sternly" up the hill with Tori.
It is unlikely that no one saw McClintic in the school and the woman had a faulty memory of McClintic's coat, he said.
Gowdey said it was unlikely that McClintic knew and targeted Tori because she had no way of knowing that it was Tori's first day walking home alone.
There was no evidence that Rafferty asked McClintic who Tori was and why she was in the car, he said.


court back in
RaffertyLFP: Gowdey resumes his final statement He says Rafferty was waiting for a "gift" and McClintic delivered it

robynhood
05-08-2012, 11:28 AM
AM980_Court "He minimized his exposure and maximized her exposure whenever possible"

said before break around 30 mins ago....Imo this is extremely TRUE....Rafferty set TLM up to be seen many times on camra...IMO again.

CarrieBean
05-08-2012, 11:28 AM
I saw yesterday on twitter that Derstine mentioned a "decision tree" or something like that, it will be given to the jury... Is anyone familiar with this?

I would love to see a sample... Also, does anyone know if this will be provided to the media as was all the evidence?

many thanks,
LS

I think it's just like a flow chart. It lays everything down in front of them so they can see the whole picture. Helps with deliberations, I think.

Sailor Bug
05-08-2012, 11:28 AM
Jury back.
Derstine suggested Tori was sexual a gift Rafferty refused. Gowdey disagrees.

RaffertyLFP: Gowdey questions why Tori was pushed into the car and hidden in the back seat Why wasn't Rafferty asking questions?

Yody04
05-08-2012, 11:28 AM
Yes I am sure it is but not once while she was speaking yesterday did she give the McDonalds or the Staffords family her condolences or ask for justice for Tori. It was all about her son. She seems like a sweet lady and don't get my wrong I am not attacking in any ways but really MR and his Mother seem to be one of the same in many ways. Always concerned about themselves and family no one else might possible hurting. JMO

Yes I felt the same thing and was missing some something, anything towards the Stafford family yesterday.
But none of us knows (and hopefully never will) how the situations feels where she is in. She will have to say good bye to her son for a very long time (probably her lifetime) and from her point of view is everybody an enemy.
It makes me sick to my stomach how many people this two crazies hurt and ruined. As always jmoo

Thinkzerz
05-08-2012, 11:29 AM
AM980_Court "He minimized his exposure and maximized her exposure whenever possible"..tweeter .before BREAK

..something else came in on tweeter after break but NOt Posted yet to copy...real slow at the moment ...NOt sure ...why???

I disagree with the crown. MR was on cam also that day. If MR was the master mind in this don't you think he would have been prepared? It was TLM that bought the hammer and bags. She needed his money to buy them and this is why she wasn't prepared. JMO

He is still guilty IMO because he helped clean up the crime and he isn't denying that.

Sailor Bug
05-08-2012, 11:29 AM
RaffertyLFP: Gowdey asked why they took Hwy 59 route of town Because it would avoid going by Oliver Stephens school?

Gowdey notes Rafferty drove further to avoid driving past Oliver Stephens after Tori was kidnapped. Why do that?

RaffertyLFP: Gowdey asks How long would it take Rafferty to realize that Tori was in car against her will? When did the light go on?

RaffertyLFP: Gowdey said Rafferty didn't ask because he was the mastermind.

Ardy
05-08-2012, 11:29 AM
From the tweets, it sounds like the Crown have accepted that TLM did the murder and will try to prove the murder charge against MR through the other two charges.

Gowdey says if they acted together to kill Tori, it doesn't matter who struck her with a hammer.

RaffertyLFP: Gowdey says it doesn't matter who actually killed Tori If Rafferty and McClintic worked together they are both guilty

From the tweets, it sounds like the Crown said there was no one who saw TLM at the school, and then challenged one witness who did testify observing TLM at the school......the grandmother.

I think the jury is going to believe the grandmother did see TLM at the school...........because she saw the exact same woman and TS walking up the street a few minutes later, so it wasn't a different day. Saying it was a different puffy white jacket insults the juries intelligence......IMO.

From the tweets, it sounds like the Crown admitted that TLM lied to the jury while on the witness stand in this trial, realize they have huge honesty issues with TLM's testimony, and are trying to resurrect her credibility as best they can.

10:16 RaffertyLFP: Gowdey admits that McClintic probably lied in her testimony but not about the key elements of what happened

Gowdey told the jury McClintic's credibility would be questioned. Notes her actual evidence wasn't attacked in a significant way.

Looking forward to more from the Crown...........

JMO......

CarrieBean
05-08-2012, 11:29 AM
AM980_Court "He minimized his exposure and maximized her exposure whenever possible"

said before break around 30 mins ago....Imo this is extremely TRUE....Rafferty set TLM up to be seen many times on camra...IMO again.

I think Rafferty had been planning this long before he even met TLM

robynhood
05-08-2012, 11:30 AM
RaffertyLFP Gowdey asks How long would it take Rafferty to realize that Tori was in car against her will? When did the light go on?

Sailor Bug
05-08-2012, 11:30 AM
RaffertyLFP: Gowdey said Rafferty didn't ask because he was the mastermind.

He says that means Rafferty knew driving past the school would be dangerous.

Rafferty shakes his head and rolls his eyes as Gowdey speaks.

RaffertyLFP: Gowdey says when Rafferty realized it was a kidnapping he became equally guilty in crime Why not turn the car around?

Juris_Prudence
05-08-2012, 11:30 AM
Well, I waited through the whole trial, and gave the accused the benefit of my doubt more times than I care to admit. I read as much as I could about what was presented by both sides and I refrained as best I could from forming an opinion throughout the presentation of the case. But with that said, having now read the tweets, and considered all info presented from both sides, I've reached my own personal verdict of the accused.

I believe the guy is guilty as sin! Derstine didn't do much to present a defense in my view, because there IS no defense for what MR is accused of! I don't believe everything TLM said, but I believe there was just enough evidence to corroborate the bulk of what she said happened. I don't care which of these two swung the fatal blows, or kicked and stomped Tori to death. MR was clearly there, and clearly had a major role and responsibility in what happened to Tori under his watch! Even if he thought TLM was babysitting, surely he would have realized at some point along the way that this was not the case. Perhaps it was when TLM shoved Tori into the car so frantically she apparently lost a tassel off her purse? Perhaps it was later somewhere along the route - does it matter when the bottom line he found out at some point, and then failed at every turn to protect her?

Is his defense then just that he was an idiot? Seriously because who allows a child to ride in a car - on the highway no less, when there is no seat for her to sit on? I don't think it was the first of his epic failures to protect Tori, but it was definitely one of them if his defense is he was an innocent dupe!

How likely is it that someone's **** bit (his or someone else's) would happen to be in the exact same spot where a bit of Tori's blood was spilled? I think that is far fetched at best. Particularly when the child was found without her skirt, leotards and panties etc. Even if Tori was killed as she peed as Dirk suggested, why would her killers take the time to bother to re-dress her, or remove the items? If they had done anything, I'd expect the clothes to have just been tossed in the bag with the remains either dangling from the body, or loose in the bag. The clothes were taken from the scene though and disposed of. Why is that? Because someone knew they'd hold more evidence and it was dangerous to leave them lying about! Incidentally, Dirk said that she was found without her shirt!! Has he even READ the case file? Sheesh!!

The phone records. I don't care if he was gabbing away on the phone or playing Words With Friends while this was going down. Whatever he was doing, he was clearly in the area, and he should have used that device to call for help!!

He had every opportunity to help Tori escape alive! He had all the power and control since he was the driver - he failed Tori in every imaginable way, and frankly, I hope he gets all those "good things comming my way" that he was so excited about, right where he belongs, in jail. Daily. From all sorts of big friendly men who so adore pedophiles!

I am anxious to hear the judge's statement to the jury, and more anxious for a verdict. I don't see this guy walking away from this one. I know there are those who do, and I respect their opinions, however, I think he had a fair trial, and the Crown has proved their case against him. I hope the jury will agree with me and so many of us here!

~n/t~
05-08-2012, 11:31 AM
Avery Moore ‏ @AveryFreeFMNews
"Mr. #Rafferty was sitting in the parking lot when Miss McClintic brought him his gift." Gowdey tells the jury.

Sailor Bug
05-08-2012, 11:31 AM
RaffertyLFP: Gowdey said Rafferty already had a plan to buy drugs in Guelph Why bring Tori

The defense says Rafferty eventually found out why Tori was in the car. That means he's still guilty.

"Why would he not just turn the car around? Unless he had evil intentions"

robynhood
05-08-2012, 11:32 AM
...when my last tweet was said...twitter reports Rafferty is rolling his eyes!!!

Sailor Bug
05-08-2012, 11:32 AM
RaffertyLFP: Gowdey says Rafferty had prearranged meeting to buy drugs from Barb Armstrong in Guelph - that from phone records

Rafferty had a plan to meet Armstrong. He got percocets from her. She saw McClintic, not Tori.

Derstine pointed out Rafferty was not in a hurry, Gowdey says that sounds like a "man in control".

RaffertyLFP: Gowdey said Rafferty was relaxed at Armstrong's because he was in control. Why bring Tori along?

~n/t~
05-08-2012, 11:33 AM
Steven D'Souza ‏ @cbcsteve
Crown asks when #Rafferty knew what was going on :"He knew from the very beginning because he was the leader of the operation."

Steven D'Souza ‏ @cbcsteve
Crown says #Rafferty didn't drive past school after taking Tori to avoid more witnesses


Avery Moore ‏ @AveryFreeFMNews
"Would [Tori] not be asking questions that would betray the fact that this was not innocent?" On Defence's claim that #Rafferty was unaware.

~n/t~
05-08-2012, 11:34 AM
Avery Moore ‏ @AveryFreeFMNews
"Why would [Tori] not become scared and want to go home and express that to them?" Gowdey asks the jury on #Rafferty's claimed innocence.

robynhood
05-08-2012, 11:34 AM
AM980_Court "Why would he not just turn the car around? Unless he had evil intentions"...tweeter is coming in fast now ....

Sailor Bug
05-08-2012, 11:35 AM
Rafferty paid for drugs in cash. He got the money from Charity Spitzig. She thought it was to fix his car.

RaffertyLFP: Gowdey said Rafferty had cash from Sptizig to pay for drugs and gas

He withdrew $400. Then $80 later on in Guelph.

daisy.faithfull
05-08-2012, 11:36 AM
McClintic was much less likely to attract suspicion. She was a pawn. What if something went wrong? He had an easy escape route.

Rafferty had escape routes the whole day. "He had the keys. It was his car."

RaffertyLFP: Gowdey said Rafferty chose nursing home parking lot was secluded and gave him a good escape route if something went wrong


Grandmother said McClintic looked stern. But, that wouldn't fit with her knowing Tori, according to Derstine's theory from yesterday.

RaffertyLFP: Gowdey said Raffery's car drove by CASS at 9:04 am when McClintic was at a grocery store


Avery Moore ‏ @AveryFreeFMNews
"After dropping Terri-Lynne McClintic nearer to the school, why not stay there if your intentions are innocent?" Gowdey asks

Choice, planning, intention ---> mens rea

Sailor Bug
05-08-2012, 11:36 AM
RaffertyLFP: Gowdey said Rafferty took $80 from ATM in Guelph to give to McClintic to pay for hammer

Gowdey says that money was spent on the hammer and garbage bags.

McClintic or Rafferty could have taken off with Tori, gone for help. Neither did. They were in it together, Gowdey says.

~n/t~
05-08-2012, 11:36 AM
Steven D'Souza ‏ @cbcsteve
Crown: #Rafferty continued to make it worse by driving away. As a thinking rational person why not turn the car around?

Steven D'Souza ‏ @cbcsteve
Crown attacks Defence theory that #Rafferty was unaware by asking dozens of questions that an innocent person would ask.

Sailor Bug
05-08-2012, 11:37 AM
RaffertyLFP: Gowdey said McClinitc or Rafferty could have taken off at any time with Tori that day but they didn't because they were in it together

RaffertyLFP: Court is seeing video of Rafferty walking in to use ATM in Guelph

Showing images from Home Depot, Peteo Canada in Guelph.

robynhood
05-08-2012, 11:38 AM
AM980_Court Derstine pointed out Rafferty was not in a hurry, Gowdey says that sounds like a "man in control".....

referring to when he went to buy perks....at Bm home in guelph...

sillybilly
05-08-2012, 11:39 AM
RaffertyLFP: Gowdey said Rafferty already had a plan to buy drugs in Guelph Why bring Tori

For that matter, why even bring TLM? He knew much earlier that he was going to Guelph, then he was with TLM but didn't bother asking her to go to Guelph with him. But, for some reason he showed back up at TLM's house around 2:00pm ish to ask her to go to Guelph with him?

robynhood
05-08-2012, 11:39 AM
M980_Court Rafferty paid for drugs in cash. He got the money from Charity Spitzig. She thought it was to fix his car.

Sailor Bug
05-08-2012, 11:40 AM
She left the car to get the hammer, at Rafferty's instruction, Gowdey says.

RaffertyLFP: Gowdey said McClintic left Tori with Rafferty while she shopped at Home Depot - court is seeing video of same

RaffertyLFP: Rafferty popped the trunk to allow McClintic to put hammer and garbage bags inside

sillybilly
05-08-2012, 11:40 AM
...when my last tweet was said...twitter reports Rafferty is rolling his eyes!!!

Seems this guy isn't controlled by his own lawyer even

JMO

robynhood
05-08-2012, 11:40 AM
AM980_Court She left the car to get the hammer, at Rafferty's instruction, Gowdey says.

~n/t~
05-08-2012, 11:42 AM
Steven D'Souza ‏ @cbcsteve
#Rafferty has rolled his eyes and is subtly shaking his head at various points in Crown's closing arguments

Sailor Bug
05-08-2012, 11:42 AM
RaffertyLFP: Gowdey said Rafferty drove north on Hwy 6 to murder site Court sees receipt from Home Depot

Home Depot was last video sighting of either Rafferty and McClintic before Tori died.

CarrieBean
05-08-2012, 11:44 AM
I know this is kind of OT for the moment, but it's been bugging me because I just noticed a few days ago. In the Home Depot video, Rafferty's car pulls to the far side of the parking lot first and it appears he gets out and walks away for a moment. He gets back in and drives closer to the store and parks, where TLM gets out. Has it ever been said what he may have been doing when he pulled into the first parking space? Wondering if they needed a couple of minutes to make sure Tori wasn't going to put up a fuss in the parking lot.

Doh. I just realized. Is this where he used the ATM?

Sailor Bug
05-08-2012, 11:45 AM
The hammer, Gowdey reminds the jury, matched the damage to Tori's skull.

Of course, the hammer used was disposed of by Rafferty and McClintic and never found.

RaffertyLFP: Gowdey agrees with defense that McClintic was purposeful in buying tools at Home Dept He agrees- she was part of it

LoyalSleuth
05-08-2012, 11:45 AM
I think it's just like a flow chart. It lays everything down in front of them so they can see the whole picture. Helps with deliberations, I think.
Thanks CB...

I hope it will be posted.

~n/t~
05-08-2012, 11:45 AM
Avery Moore ‏ @AveryFreeFMNews
Gowdey suggesting that McClintic bought the hammer and garbage bags with #Rafferty's cash. Says she was faithfully fulfilling her tasks.

Sailor Bug
05-08-2012, 11:46 AM
RaffertyLFP: Gowdey said Tori was not taken into store and left with Rafferty Why would she stay with him if it was innocent?

RaffertyLFP: Gowdey asks why Rafferty chose to drive to northern Wellington County? Why did he not know something was wrong?

Rafferty would have known what McClintic was buying, Gowdey suggests. He would have asked why she wanted to stop there.

If, as defense suggests, Tori was afraid of Rafferty but not McClintic, why would she stay in the car? Why drive north of Guelph?

Gowdey keeps repeating Rafferty had the keys to the car.

~n/t~
05-08-2012, 11:46 AM
Steven D'Souza ‏ @cbcsteve
Gowdey on McClintic in Home Depot: She was faithfully carrying out her part, she knew what she was doing and she did it

~n/t~
05-08-2012, 11:47 AM
Avery Moore ‏ @AveryFreeFMNews
"Did he not ask what she was buying [at Home Depot], if not, why not?" Gowdey on defence claim that #Rafferty didn't know about murder plot.

nursebeeme
05-08-2012, 11:47 AM
Seems this guy isn't controlled by his own lawyer even

JMO

not much they can do about eye rolling and other behavior... you should have seen the Casey Anthony trial... they had to give her a pen and paper for her fidgeting hands...

robynhood
05-08-2012, 11:49 AM
RaffertyLFP Gowdey asks why Rafferty chose to drive to northern Wellington County? Why did he not know something was wrong?

nursebeeme
05-08-2012, 11:49 AM
basic info on decision trees (we use the same sort of thing in nursing diagnoses)

Decision tree - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Sailor Bug
05-08-2012, 11:49 AM
RaffertyLFP: Gowdey asks why Rafferty chose to drive to northern Wellington County? Why did he not know something was wrong?

McClintic said Rafferty scared Tori. Rafferty had been mean to her. Would she not be more terrified seeing the hammer?

RaffertyLFP: Gowdey said Rafferty has similar hammer at home

Kamille
05-08-2012, 11:49 AM
I know this is kind of OT for the moment, but it's been bugging me because I just noticed a few days ago. In the Home Depot video, Rafferty's car pulls to the far side of the parking lot first and it appears he gets out and walks away for a moment. He gets back in and drives closer to the store and parks, where TLM gets out. Has it ever been said what he may have been doing when he pulled into the first parking space? Wondering if they needed a couple of minutes to make sure Tori wasn't going to put up a fuss in the parking lot.

Doh. I just realized. Is this where he used the ATM?

Yes I think that is where he went into the Petro Station next door to use the ATM.

MOO

robynhood
05-08-2012, 11:49 AM
AveryFreeFMNews Can you accept that #Rafferty would be completely oblivious?, Gowdey asks. It’s hours after school let out, the child hadn’t eaten anything.

~n/t~
05-08-2012, 11:49 AM
Avery Moore ‏ @AveryFreeFMNews
Can you accept that #Rafferty would be completely oblivious?, Gowdey asks. It’s hours after school let out, the child hadn’t eaten anything.

Flowercb
05-08-2012, 11:50 AM
RaffertyLFP: Gowdey said Rafferty didn't ask because he was the mastermind.

He says that means Rafferty knew driving past the school would be dangerous.

Rafferty shakes his head and rolls his eyes as Gowdey speaks.

RaffertyLFP: Gowdey says when Rafferty realized it was a kidnapping he became equally guilty in crime Why not turn the car around?

Rafferty is a real piece of work. MOO

Ardy
05-08-2012, 11:50 AM
M980_Court Rafferty paid for drugs in cash. He got the money from Charity Spitzig. She thought it was to fix his car.

The Crown now contends that MR bummed the money from CS?

Wasn't her testimony that she gave him all the money she earned?

CS thought it was to fix his car........sure she did.

She knew what he was doing with the money........MOO.

It is the Crown's turn to spin the tires of speculation now

JMO............

~n/t~
05-08-2012, 11:50 AM
Avery Moore ‏ @AveryFreeFMNews
"Don’t let either of them fool you that they weren’t in it together or that one of them didn’t know the whole story." - Gowdey

Sailor Bug
05-08-2012, 11:51 AM
That's why he popped the trunk and didn't check the bag's contents.

He would normally use his debit card at a Home Depot, McClintic said. He was trying to cover his tracks and pay with cash.

RaffertyLFP: Gowdey said McClintic's testimony was that Rafferty told her to buy the hammer, Why would she say that if she admitted to murder?

robynhood
05-08-2012, 11:51 AM
AveryFreeFMNews "Don’t let either of them fool you that they weren’t in it together or that one of them didn’t know the whole story." - Gowdey #Rafferty

tweeter before said that is whay Rafferty popped the trunk as he KNEW what was in the bag!

Sailor Bug
05-08-2012, 11:52 AM
Why invent the detail about Rafferty telling her to buy the hammer when she implicated herself for murder? Why fabricate the sexual assault?

RaffertyLFP: Gowdey said Rafferty was a heavy user of drugs based on testimony from his girlfriends - jibes with McClintic testimony

~n/t~
05-08-2012, 11:52 AM
Steven D'Souza ‏ @cbcsteve
Gowdey: “Don’t let either of them fool you in to thinking that they weren’t in this together”

Steven D'Souza ‏ @cbcsteve
Crown says #Rafferrty put hammer and garbage bags in trunk of car b/c he knew why they were bought at Home Depot


Avery Moore ‏ @AveryFreeFMNews
Gowdey says #Rafferty and McClintic were in on buying the murder tools together.

Kamille
05-08-2012, 11:52 AM
not much they can do about eye rolling and other behavior... you should have seen the Casey Anthony trial... they had to give her a pen and paper for her fidgeting hands...

To me it's like trying to testify without getting up on the stand. It should not be allowed. Although I don't know that a contempt charge would scare the defendent right now.

MOO

robynhood
05-08-2012, 11:53 AM
AveryFreeFMNews Gowdey asks why would McClintic fabricate the story about the sexual assault, what's the point? "Why make that part up?" - Gowdey

KMouse
05-08-2012, 11:53 AM
not much they can do about eye rolling and other behavior... you should have seen the Casey Anthony trial... they had to give her a pen and paper for her fidgeting hands...

and hugs....

at least nobody is in there hugging MR

~n/t~
05-08-2012, 11:53 AM
Avery Moore ‏ @AveryFreeFMNews
Gowdey asks why would McClintic fabricate the story about the sexual assault, what's the point? "Why make that part up?" - Gowdey

Sailor Bug
05-08-2012, 11:53 AM
Rafferty told undercover police it would be a hard few days in jail, without drugs. Drug evidence confirms portions of McClintic testimony.

RaffertyLFP: Gowdey said Rafferty sent McClintic into Home Depot to shield him from buying murder weapon He parked far away

He went to a great effort to avoid attention, Gowdey says. Even at Home Depot.

LoyalSleuth
05-08-2012, 11:54 AM
Steven D'Souza ‏ @cbcsteve
#Rafferty has rolled his eyes and is subtly shaking his head at various points in Crown's closing arguments

if he is so "against" what is being said, he shoudl have taken the stand and told us all his side of that tragic day... But he chose not too, so stop the shaking of your head!

daisy.faithfull
05-08-2012, 11:54 AM
M980_Court Rafferty paid for drugs in cash. He got the money from Charity Spitzig. She thought it was to fix his car.

The Crown now contends that MR bummed the money from CS?

Wasn't her testimony that she gave him all the money she earned?

CS thought it was to fix his car........sure she did.

She knew what he was doing with the money........MOO.

It is the Crown's turn to spin the tires of speculation now

JMO............

How would she know if she wasn't involved in the planning?

~n/t~
05-08-2012, 11:55 AM
Steven D'Souza ‏ @cbcsteve
Crown: #Rafferty was willing to do what it took to shield himself from the purchase of that hammer


Avery Moore ‏ @AveryFreeFMNews
Gowdey says #Rafferty tried to shield himself from suspicion. "He was not about to risk himself purchasing the murder weapon."

robynhood
05-08-2012, 11:55 AM
RaffertyLFP Gowdey said Rafferty sent McClintic into Home Depot to shield him from buying murder weapon He parked far away

AbbeyR
05-08-2012, 11:55 AM
RaffertyLFP:
The defense says Rafferty eventually found out why Tori was in the car. That means he's still guilty.

"Why would he not just turn the car around? Unless he had evil intentions"

This is the point that should seal the deal for anyone who believes the kidnapping was initially TLM's plan. There's just no way around it.

Sailor Bug
05-08-2012, 11:55 AM
RaffertyLFP: "He was trying to avoid the glaring eye of surveillance video" says Gowdey. He says McClintic was great partner who could be trusted

RaffertyLFP: The Home Depot video "shows the depth of their partnership" says Gowdey

robynhood
05-08-2012, 11:56 AM
RaffertyLFP "He was trying to avoid the glaring eye of surveillance video" says Gowdey. He says McClintic was great partner who could be trusted

CarrieBean
05-08-2012, 11:56 AM
Thanks CB...

I hope it will be posted.

I'd like to see it too, but not holding my breath on that.

robynhood
05-08-2012, 11:57 AM
AveryFreeFMNews #Rafferty was limiting his exposure, Gowdey tells the jury, "That’s why he had his partner, and what a partner she turned out to be."

Sailor Bug
05-08-2012, 11:57 AM
If garbage vats were the only thing on her list, why give McClintic $40? Gowdey asks.

Home Depot shows depth of the partnership McClintic and Rafferty had.

Gowdey wonders what Tori could have been thinking about during that time in the car at Home Depot.

RaffertyLFP: Gowdey said if McClintic was mastermind why go all the way to Guelph and Mount Forest?

Sailor Bug
05-08-2012, 11:57 AM
RaffertyLFP: Gowdey said Stafford did not go to Home Depot so she could not be seen or escape

If McClintic was the engine, why go to Home Depot? Why not just turn around and go back to Woodstock if they were just babysitting.

The crown says it's obvious why Tori didn't go to the store. So nobody would see her.

Ardy
05-08-2012, 11:57 AM
Steven D'Souza ‏ @cbcsteve
Crown says #Rafferrty put hammer and garbage bags in trunk of car b/c he knew why they were bought at Home Depot

The more the Crown continues, the more I realize how much their case depends on the testimony of TLM.

JMO...................

robynhood
05-08-2012, 11:58 AM
RaffertyLFP Gowdey said if McClintic was mastermind why go all the way to Guelph and Mount Forest?

SAID PREVIOUS TO MY LAST TWEET...

~n/t~
05-08-2012, 11:58 AM
Avery Moore ‏ @AveryFreeFMNews
#Rafferty was limiting his exposure, Gowdey tells the jury, "That’s why he had his partner, and what a partner she turned out to be.

Sailor Bug
05-08-2012, 11:59 AM
RaffertyLFP: Gowdey said hammer went into the trunk so Tori would not see it and be more afraid

If McClintic was asking just for money, wouldn't it be natural to ask how much and what for? Gowdey says.

If Rafferty didn't know, why pop the trunk without prompting? He didn't want Tori to see.

RaffertyLFP: "Don't let anyone fool you into thinking they did not do this together" says Gowdey

~n/t~
05-08-2012, 11:59 AM
Steven D'Souza ‏ @cbcsteve
Crown says #Rafferty trusted McClintic to buy the murder tools. Trusted her to kidnap Tori. Trusted her to be alone with Tori


Avery Moore ‏ @AveryFreeFMNews
"The video at the Home Depot shows more than anything else the depth of their partnership." -Gowdey on #Rafferty and McClintic

sillybilly
05-08-2012, 12:00 PM
not much they can do about eye rolling and other behavior... you should have seen the Casey Anthony trial... they had to give her a pen and paper for her fidgeting hands...

I agree nurse ... it was more tongue-in-cheek about his overall personality ... nobody (whether his lawyer or TLM) controls what MTR does ... he does what he wants.

JMO

robynhood
05-08-2012, 12:00 PM
AM980_Court If Rafferty didn't know, why pop the trunk without prompting? He didn't want Tori to see.

puppyraiser
05-08-2012, 12:00 PM
Why didn't MR use the drive thru at Tim Horton's?...............oh wait- he had a kidnapped child in his car who could have yelled for help or been seen.

Didn't know she was kidnapped, I call that a load of BS. IMO, MOO JMO

Sailor Bug
05-08-2012, 12:01 PM
"Don't let anyone fool you into thinking they didn't do this together" Gowdey says.

Rafferty rolls his eyes again. At least the third time I've seen him do that.

Just because Rafferty wasn't on camera, doesn't mean he isn't controlling the events.

10 minute break.

RaffertyLFP: Court takes 10 minute break

robynhood
05-08-2012, 12:02 PM
M980_Court Rafferty rolls his eyes again. At least the third time I've seen him do that.

rAFFERTY SEEMS VERY REACTIVE NOW...iMO ..CROWN IS TURNING UP THE HEAT & rafferty does not like it...sorry about caps ...I am working fast to get you the tweets coming in real fast now...

~n/t~
05-08-2012, 12:02 PM
Steven D'Souza ‏ @cbcsteve
Crown: The video from the Home Depot, shows more than anything else the depth of their partnership

Ardy
05-08-2012, 12:02 PM
RaffertyLFP "He was trying to avoid the glaring eye of surveillance video" says Gowdey. He says McClintic was great partner who could be trusted

A partner who could be trusted?

This has got to be a misquote.

Even to MR..........TLM couldn't be trusted.

The Crown is hurting their case more than helping today.

This kind of nonsense insults the intelligence of the jury.

JMO.........

CarrieBean
05-08-2012, 12:02 PM
Steven D'Souza ‏ @cbcsteve
Crown says #Rafferrty put hammer and garbage bags in trunk of car b/c he knew why they were bought at Home Depot

The more the Crown continues, the more I realize how much their case depends on the testimony of TLM.

JMO...................

...and circumstantial evidence
...and video surveillance
...and DNA
...Cell phone records

anyone else care to add?

OhSoCurious
05-08-2012, 12:03 PM
Steven D'Souza ‏ @cbcsteve
Crown says #Rafferrty put hammer and garbage bags in trunk of car b/c he knew why they were bought at Home Depot

The more the Crown continues, the more I realize how much their case depends on the testimony of TLM.

JMO...................

Yes ... a "prolific liar". The judge will make sure the jury is well grounded again, after the Crown repeats their show ... blah blah blah ... he should have/could have/might have ... says TLM.

JMO/IMO/MOO

~n/t~
05-08-2012, 12:04 PM
"Don't let anyone fool you into thinking they didn't do this together" Gowdey says.

Rafferty rolls his eyes again. At least the third time I've seen him do that.

Just because Rafferty wasn't on camera, doesn't mean he isn't controlling the events.

10 minute break.

Hope the Judge puts a stop to it!

~n/t~
05-08-2012, 12:04 PM
Steven D'Souza ‏ @cbcsteve
Crown on Rafferty: Just because he’s staying safely behind (at Home Depot) That doesn’t mean he’s not controlling what’s going on.

nursebeeme
05-08-2012, 12:04 PM
To me it's like trying to testify without getting up on the stand. It should not be allowed. Although I don't know that a contempt charge would scare the defendent right now.

MOO

actually if the judge calls him out on it (he could do that in the US not sure about Canada) it would not look good for MR imhoo..

iirc he is not sitting right next to his lawyers so it is very difficult for them to be able to pass him a note telling him to cut it out, etc etc...

He would do well to be aware of what the jury is able to see of his reactions...he is not doing himself any favors whatsoever

moo

robynhood
05-08-2012, 12:05 PM
AM980_Court Just because Rafferty wasn't on camera, doesn't mean he isn't controlling the events.

they just announced a 10 min break....Imo if I was the defense lawyer I would be talking to Rafferty about all his eyes rolling and lots of reactions...but thk God I am NOT a defense lawyer....everyone go get a DRINK ...break time ..10 mins...

daisy.faithfull
05-08-2012, 12:05 PM
RaffertyLFP "He was trying to avoid the glaring eye of surveillance video" says Gowdey. He says McClintic was great partner who could be trusted

A partner who could be trusted?

This has got to be a misquote.

Even to MR..........TLM couldn't be trusted.

The Crown is hurting their case more than helping today.

This kind of nonsense insults the intelligence of the jury.

JMO.........

:Moo: then do y really think it is likely that he trusted CS, that she knew the plan, that she knew what the money was for?

KMouse
05-08-2012, 12:06 PM
RaffertyLFP "He was trying to avoid the glaring eye of surveillance video" says Gowdey. He says McClintic was great partner who could be trusted

A partner who could be trusted?

This has got to be a misquote.

Even to MR..........TLM couldn't be trusted.

The Crown is hurting their case more than helping today.

This kind of nonsense insults the intelligence of the jury.

JMO.........

TLM was a great partner who could be trusted. How many other people can you find to go along with your plan to abduct and rape a child? TLM wasn't the brightest crayon in the box and was very easily manipulated. MR manipulated TLM with his "little bit of love". Remember the jail house visits and the motel videos? It was obvious she had the goo-goo eyes for MR.

robynhood
05-08-2012, 12:06 PM
AM980_Court If McClintic was asking just for money, wouldn't it be natural to ask how much and what for? Gowdey says.

..said earlier

Sailor Bug
05-08-2012, 12:06 PM
The Crown is doing an AMAZING job...all in the name of JUSTICE for Tori

TopTop
05-08-2012, 12:07 PM
RaffertyLFP "He was trying to avoid the glaring eye of surveillance video" says Gowdey. He says McClintic was great partner who could be trusted

A partner who could be trusted?

This has got to be a misquote.

Even to MR..........TLM couldn't be trusted.

The Crown is hurting their case more than helping today.

This kind of nonsense insults the intelligence of the jury.

JMO.........

I think MR trusted her completely. You don't kidnap and murder a child with someone you don't trust...MOO

Ever after she was arrested he did not seem worried that she would implicate him in the murder. I think he trusted her 100% ....MOO

robynhood
05-08-2012, 12:07 PM
veryFreeFMNews #Rafferty shakes his head while Gowdey presents closing arguments. He rolls his eyes while the Crown accuses him of being in charge.

sillybilly
05-08-2012, 12:08 PM
...and circumstantial evidence
...and video surveillance
...and DNA
...Cell phone records

anyone else care to add?

Maybe .. if they were stopped with the hammer and bags and Tori in the car, that would look more suspicious than the just purchased items being in the trunk along with his other junk.

robynhood
05-08-2012, 12:08 PM
.AveryFreeFMNews 10 minute break called. Then Gowdey will continue to argue until the 1 o'clock lunch break. #Rafferty

nursebeeme
05-08-2012, 12:09 PM
RaffertyLFP "He was trying to avoid the glaring eye of surveillance video" says Gowdey. He says McClintic was great partner who could be trusted

A partner who could be trusted?

This has got to be a misquote.

Even to MR..........TLM couldn't be trusted.

The Crown is hurting their case more than helping today.

This kind of nonsense insults the intelligence of the jury.

JMO......... I think they are doing a marvelous job.

imhoo he is trying to say that he chose TLM as a partner because he could trust her.. he knew she would be "in" with him and would do what he asked.

moo

~n/t~
05-08-2012, 12:10 PM
Steven D'Souza ‏ @cbcsteve
Court takes quick 10 minute break. Pacing is vital for lawyers to make sure their points are absorbed by Jury


Avery Moore ‏ @AveryFreeFMNews
10 minute break called. Then Gowdey will continue to argue until the 1 o'clock lunch break. #Rafferty

Avery Moore ‏ @AveryFreeFMNews
#Rafferty shakes his head while Gowdey presents closing arguments. He rolls his eyes while the Crown accuses him of being in charge.