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View Full Version : TN - Holly Bobo, 20, Darden; believed abducted 13 April 2011 - #33


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wfgodot
05-07-2012, 04:20 PM
Earlier Holly Bobo threads:

Thread #1
Thread #2
Thread #3
Thread #4
Thread #5
Thread #6 (http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=6353943&posted=1#post6353943)Thread #7
Thread #8
Thread #9
Thread #10
Thread #11
Thread #12
Thread #13
Thread #14
Thread #15
Thread #16
Thread #17
Thread #18
Thread #19
Thread #20
Thread #21
Thread #22
Thread #23
Thread #24
Thread #25
Thread #26
Thread #27
Thread #28
Thread #29
Thread #30
Thread #31
Thread #32


-RUMORS are not allowed and will be removed.

-It's fine to discuss the brother and anyone mentioned in the media and tied to this case. Its not ok to talk about him or anyone as a suspect or POI. No one has been named as such.

If you are new to us here, please take a moment to review our Terms of Service and Rules, especially the piece regarding social networking sites (Facebook and Twitter): Rules Etiquette & Information


Professional Posters & Verified Locals/Insiders


Holly Bobo map (http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?msa=0&msid=218199748434644937742.0004a0e4115bf271e54ae&hl=en&ie=UTF8&ll=35.679217,-88.175486&spn=0.007617,0.013057&t=h&z=17) (created by Hollye)

SEPARATE WEBSLEUTHS HOLLY BOBO THREADS

Holly Bobo information & support thread (http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=133246&highlight=holly+bobo+facebook)

Holly Bobo Facebook thread


Some blog sites are not allowed to be linked to because of so many rumors being posted on them. Please pm a Mod if its not posted below to see if they are allowed.

The following blog sites are allowed to be linked to:
Case Signal (BeanE's site)
Val - The Hinky Meter
Amandareckonwth's case archive site - Crankycrankerson
Patty G's Video Library site

Please continue here:

houndstooth
05-07-2012, 04:39 PM
Thanks Waiting For!

I think.
I got chopped in the crossover!

:)

Now you're gonna have to wait for me, until I feel like retyping it.
HA!

wfgodot
05-07-2012, 04:41 PM
When I typed in the new thread title, I left "believed abducted" in there, more for the sake of parallelism with the first 32 threads than for anything else, btw. I kept us in "Hot Cases" too, which sounds much classier than the droopy alternative.

houndstooth
05-07-2012, 04:42 PM
It was really fun too, cause it was all about my fantasy of having Judge Judy convene a grand jury with Nancy Grace as the grand inquisitor.

wfgodot
05-07-2012, 04:43 PM
Thanks Waiting For!

I think.
I got chopped in the crossover!

:)

Now you're gonna have to wait for me, until I feel like retyping it.
HA!
I left about a five minute carryover for posting on Thread #32 after I already had posted this one.

Next time I'll go for ten minutes. Sorry!

Hatfield
05-07-2012, 04:49 PM
Yes, thanks WFGODOT for the new thread. I don't want to see this case ever become an unsolved case. I hold out hope that answers can be found as to what happened to Holly. I am kind of thinking that LE will have to release some new info like the 911 calls to help out though. Since that large reward hasn't helped, I think they need to release everything they can to help out.

wfgodot
05-07-2012, 05:22 PM
I had an odd dream last night - odd in that I never dream about WS stuff - in which I overheard the Bobo-related 911 calls, and also learned the solution to the Joann Bain-and-three-daughters TN evident-kidnapping mystery. OF COURSE I forgot everything about them other than their basic subject matter by the time I woke up, a couple minutes later. Drat!

liltexans
05-07-2012, 05:25 PM
Is it time for another missing in TN report? The list is getting longer...

wfgodot
05-07-2012, 05:34 PM
Is it time for another missing in TN report? The list is getting longer...
It certainly is! Will have to locate one of the former lists to see the "went missing" dates. They did find one woman who had been on it for quite awhile, I think. (Finding her was by sheer accident, of course.)

Frogzilla
05-07-2012, 05:45 PM
I think it is very easy to get confused following this case. Up is down, left is right and so on. We have multiple versions of the ongoing narrative from the Bobo family, cryptic and very pointed comments made by LE and 5 pounds of crazy in a 1 pound bag following it. The lack of ANY information provided in this case combined with LE stopping searches and repeatedly saying that they believe the abductor is local and the investigation has not left the Darden/Parsons area is the only way to read between the lines in this case. CB is a supposed eye witness to the events of that morning, his accounts are very skewed and lead nowhere. It would make sense that there is information he probably should not share, but that does not explain the convoluted stories we have been given. There is a really simple version that could be offered, CB woke up and saw his sister walking away. The problem here stems from all of the confusing perspectives we are given as CB tells his story. From meter readers, HB car still at home when CB knew it shouldn't be, calling his mother to see who he is looking at, phantom turkeys, to the quote that he did not think she would be coming back anytime soon and etc... (Also keep in mind we did not know any of the Bobo's actual story until they spoke with the media almost 3 months later)
CB is either telling bald faced lies or trying to fool other people, maybe the one who does know the missing parts to CB's narrative. CB supposedly gave a statement the first day and any deviation from that without LE being aware would of made him suspect number one very quickly.
I think the most likely scenario here is that somebody familiar with the Bobo family and specifically the area around their home is the abductor. Being in such a remote area, the odds heavily favor it as well as the way this case has played out.
LE at it's core is a business and plenty of time and resources have been used in this case, I don't believe LE had 10+ investigators on this case at one time to speculate about it while eating doughnuts.
Let's also not forget the subsequent drug busts during the search for HB. Another overlooked aspect of this case is the TBI investigation into the local drug task force (covers Decatur County, also look who requested the Governor offer a reward). I HAVE NO IDEA if it is connected to HB case or not, but I do know one thing-
Drugs investigations equal making money and missing young women investigations equal spending money. I think it's safe to assume politics play a role in this case and
it's impossible to read into others priorities, except to say the TBI is still investigating this case.

Carla Lashelle
05-07-2012, 06:22 PM
This is the most convoluted WITNESSED abduction I can think of. We know more about what happened to King Tut and he died 5,000 years ago.

Yoda
05-07-2012, 06:25 PM
Did anybody get any screen captures of fb pages before everything locked up tight?

houndstooth
05-07-2012, 06:33 PM
I think it is very easy to get confused following this case. Up is down, left is right and so on. We have multiple versions of the ongoing narrative from the Bobo family, cryptic and very pointed comments made by LE and 5 pounds of crazy in a 1 pound bag following it. The lack of ANY information provided in this case combined with LE stopping searches and repeatedly saying that they believe the abductor is local and the investigation has not left the Darden/Parsons area is the only way to read between the lines in this case. CB is a supposed eye witness to the events of that morning, his accounts are very skewed and lead nowhere. It would make sense that there is information he probably should not share, but that does not explain the convoluted stories we have been given. There is a really simple version that could be offered, CB woke up and saw his sister walking away. The problem here stems from all of the confusing perspectives we are given as CB tells his story. From meter readers, HB car still at home when CB knew it shouldn't be, calling his mother to see who he is looking at, phantom turkeys, to the quote that he did not think she would be coming back anytime soon and etc... (Also keep in mind we did not know any of the Bobo's actual story until they spoke with the media almost 3 months later)
CB is either telling bald faced lies or trying to fool other people, maybe the one who does know the missing parts to CB's narrative. CB supposedly gave a statement the first day and any deviation from that without LE being aware would of made him suspect number one very quickly.
I think the most likely scenario here is that somebody familiar with the Bobo family and specifically the area around their home is the abductor. Being in such a remote area, the odds heavily favor it as well as the way this case has played out.
LE at it's core is a business and plenty of time and resources have been used in this case, I don't believe LE had 10+ investigators on this case at one time to speculate about it while eating doughnuts.
Let's also not forget the subsequent drug busts during the search for HB. Another overlooked aspect of this case is the TBI investigation into the local drug task force (covers Decatur County, also look who requested the Governor offer a reward). I HAVE NO IDEA if it is connected to HB case or not, but I do know one thing-
Drugs investigations equal making money and missing young women investigations equal spending money. I think it's safe to assume politics play a role in this case and
it's impossible to read into others priorities, except to say the TBI is still investigating this case.

Froggie,
The last paragraph is an excellent summation to my way of thinking. (The whole thing is! ha)

Now when you say TBI is still investigating, I want you to know, that too, in my mind, consists of a desk jockey who made the mistake of taking Mehr's parking space one morning and is sentenced to the purgatory of this case, day after day.
That is who I picture still investigating this case.

Chili Fries
05-07-2012, 06:38 PM
I still think the most probable perp is someone from the UT-Martin Parsons campus, whether it's a fellow student or a staff member. It's the one group of people who obviously could have been familiar with her schedule. Now what probability would I place on that? Maybe only 20% since there are so many other possibilities but I'd say it's the most likely out of all of them given what I know.

And as for the searches...there were MASSIVE searches done after Holly went missing. Just massive, with over a thousand searchers and maybe thousands. There was probably more territory covered in searches for Holly than in 99% of the cases on these forums and more than in any case I can remember. And in all of these cases you see searching pretty much ceases once a certain amount of territory is covered (as time goes on it becomes mostly targeted searching due to tips). The great example is the Kyron search, where the intense searches only happened for less than two weeks, remember the Sheriff's office even said they expected to wrap it up a few days before they did...there are methods to the searches as Oriah and sarx can explain a lot better than I can but these coordinated search efforts can only do so much and once those limits are reached they are shut down in all of these cases.

After that you pretty much have to hope somebody stumbles onto the remains or that the person(s) who knows where the remains are gives up the info somehow. I still think there is a very slight chance Holly could be alive simply because the abduction seemed to be well-planned, and he may have had a plan for her. I don't think there's any chance she's living a free life though, and if she is still alive I think she's being held captive and is in far from decent circumstances. But I think there is a tiny sliver of hope her family could hold on to.

OldSteve
05-07-2012, 06:46 PM
Much has been said about the actions/reactions of Clint and his mom.... I gotta say that Karen Bobo reminds me so much of my mom - my mom would have acted the same way. Even though my mom was normally a happy person, she always seemed to fear the worse when anything would happen, she always feared some creep might be out to get my sister...
My mom's over reaction and fears had the opposite effect on me - leading me to think my sister was always safe, and no one was out to get her...
Add to that, my sister was popular and over the years I learned not to bud into her affairs, especially when it involved any of her boyfriends..

houndstooth
05-07-2012, 06:51 PM
Did anybody get any screen captures of fb pages before everything locked up tight?

I saw some screen captures many moons ago.

It started out with her getting home and posting at 3:30 on the dot on
facebook.
She said she wished she could go outside but that she had to study.

This was addressed to Drew.

Then she was looking forward to next week when everything would be wonderful, in a kind of noting of a poignant moment that really made no sense at the time. Only when viewed in retrospect!
I found it odd. Other people thought it was so sad that she was saying this not knowing what was coming.

Then I am told she said something about there being peace in the valley.

That I personally can't attest to. I didn't see it.
But, I did view the other parts.


ETA: Actually, come to think about it That might have been a part of her everything's going to be happiness and sunshine next week (when her test is over tomorrow on Wed.?).
Maybe I just don't have it screen captured to remember the precise wording just the gist of it.

She could very well have said the peace in the vally thing, because it was that kind of odd thing I remember her going overboard about the test.

Hatfield
05-07-2012, 07:54 PM
This is the most convoluted WITNESSED abduction I can think of. We know more about what happened to King Tut and he died 5,000 years ago.

This sums it up pretty good for me too...Convoluted is a good word for it.

When we saw how fast Nancy Grace dropped coverage and also JVM, I really think they drop cases when they sense either a lack of cooperation or they sense that they will not be getting at least some minimal amount of information for their shows. I have seen these types of shows drop cases like a hot potatoe, and this case was similar. Even the dad walked out on the JVM show, which was bizarre in itself.

One of the most frustrating interviews I saw was the one done with I think it was local Channel 5 news station, and the interviewer was trying to be polite, but it was really sad, as every single response was "nada to protect the investigation". It was ridiculous, as they really should not have had the interview at all.

Which makes me very frustrated because at some point, if you really want your relative found, most people would normally throw caution to the wind and share all they know to help find her. If it were me in that situation, I would be protecting NO ONE!!! Even if the perp looked like my Gram, I would jump on national TV, and say the person looked kind of like my Gram.

Which leads me to think they must be protecting someone that they have some sort of bond with. That is basically the only thing I can deduce from it all. I may be totally wrong of course, but something sure is strange about this case. I just don't get all the apprehension during the interviews in the past year. I would be sharing every minute detail to help find the person.

All JMO of course.

Hatfield
05-07-2012, 08:03 PM
And yes, like someone previously mentioned recently, when they did not make any statements for the first 3 months, it kind of set the tone that something is strange about this case. Why all the slience for 3 months when you have a missing family member that needs to be found.

It does not make any sense whatsoever IMO.

Oriah
05-08-2012, 09:48 AM
Perhaps people should start emailing and calling all of the local and national media outlets and requesting they approach LE about releasing the 911 calls.

Rather than beating the dead horse that is a constant and circular discussion regarding the 'oddness' of Holly's case and the 'constantly changing' or 'misrepresented in the media' stories, the 911 calls are solid evidence of a crime in progress.

Pressure from the media is what is going to affect LE, with the one exception being that there might be a darn good reason that LE has for not releasing the 911 calls- and it is not a coverup or cover for someone- it is because they feel it may affect the case integrity.

So I suggest a mass email and calling campaign to all media outlets, specifying how much renewed interest there would be in Holly's abduction... and the media outlet that can first get ahold of the 911 calls.

Mvho, of course.

wfgodot
05-08-2012, 09:54 AM
Remember, though, that if you call, write, or email the media, you do so as a representative of yourself and not of WebSleuths, unless you have made arrangements to do so.

Oriah
05-08-2012, 11:00 AM
Remember, though, that if you call, write, or email the media, you do so as a representative of yourself and not of WebSleuths, unless you have made arrangements to do so.

Thank you, wfgodot- I should have added that reminder.

Carla Lashelle
05-08-2012, 12:38 PM
But they are under no obligation to release anything. I think if they had any inclination to release the 911 calls they would have done so by now. after a year... I don't think so. Basically save your dime for someone who cares.

OldSteve
05-08-2012, 01:07 PM
Perhaps people should start emailing and calling all of the local and national media outlets and requesting they approach LE about releasing the 911 calls.

Rather than beating the dead horse that is a constant and circular discussion regarding the 'oddness' of Holly's case and the 'constantly changing' or 'misrepresented in the media' stories, the 911 calls are solid evidence of a crime in progress.

Pressure from the media is what is going to affect LE, with the one exception being that there might be a darn good reason that LE has for not releasing the 911 calls- and it is not a coverup or cover for someone- it is because they feel it may affect the case integrity.

So I suggest a mass email and calling campaign to all media outlets, specifying how much renewed interest there would be in Holly's abduction... and the media outlet that can first get ahold of the 911 calls.

Mvho, of course.

Interesting how the ID and Dateline shows seem to get access to actual 911 calls involving the cases they work on...

eileenhawkeye
05-08-2012, 01:35 PM
But they are under no obligation to release anything. I think if they had any inclination to release the 911 calls they would have done so by now. after a year... I don't think so. Basically save your dime for someone who cares.

I agree. I'm sure the media did request the 911 calls back when the case was in the news. Ultimately, it's probably up to LE when they are released. Although, some states might give more control to the media when it comes to obtaining that information. I don't know what the rules are for Tennessee.

The 911 call in the Ramsey case didn't come out until 2003. We still haven't heard the 911 call in this case or the Baby Lisa case or Isabel's case. I don't know if it's as simple as the media requesting the call, and it being played on the news the day later. I think it's up to LE and the laws in that particular state.

Carla Lashelle
05-08-2012, 01:53 PM
I know its different here in Florida where the sunshine laws make a lot of stuff public acccess

wishuwerehere
05-08-2012, 02:13 PM
"The Tennessee Senate has passed a Bill to block public rebroadcasting of 911 emergency calls without the written consent of the person whose voice is recorded."
(emphasis mine)

http://purplelawfirm.com/blog_news/2011/04/21/freedom-of-press-and-information-act-tennessee-senate-votes-to-prevent-broadcast-of-911-calls/

Chili Fries
05-08-2012, 02:46 PM
"The Tennessee Senate has passed a Bill to block public rebroadcasting of 911 emergency calls without the written consent of the person whose voice is recorded."
(emphasis mine)

http://purplelawfirm.com/blog_news/2011/04/21/freedom-of-press-and-information-act-tennessee-senate-votes-to-prevent-broadcast-of-911-calls/
I'm not so sure those bills were ever passed into law. I can't find a 911 confidentiality law in the TN Code:

http://www.lexisnexis.com/hottopics/tncode/

Maybe somebody else can find it, but it looks to me like there is no law that says the 911 caller must consent to having the audio released. I'm pretty sure it should be under Title 10, Part 5. My guess is LE is just somehow keeping the 911 calls under wraps as part of an active investigation.

wishuwerehere
05-08-2012, 03:33 PM
I'm not so sure those bills were ever passed into law. I can't find a 911 confidentiality law in the TN Code:

http://www.lexisnexis.com/hottopics/tncode/

Maybe somebody else can find it, but it looks to me like there is no law that says the 911 caller must consent to having the audio released. I'm pretty sure it should be under Title 10, Part 5. My guess is LE is just somehow keeping the 911 calls under wraps as part of an active investigation.

I see what you mean: http://www.capitol.tn.gov/Bills/107/Bill/HB1539.pdf

"This act shall take effect upon becoming a law, the public wefare requiring it."

For the time being, I guess it's in legislative limbo?

cluciano63
05-08-2012, 04:03 PM
I'm not sure what we would learn if we did hear the 911 calls...LE has heard them, and they can't seem to solve the case...JMO

marycarney
05-08-2012, 04:11 PM
I'm not sure what we would learn if we did hear the 911 calls...LE has heard them, and they can't seem to solve the case...JMO

But.....but... we're WEBSLEUTHS!!!!!!!!

wishuwerehere
05-08-2012, 04:14 PM
I'm not sure what we would learn if we did hear the 911 calls...LE has heard them, and they can't seem to solve the case...JMO

For my own perspective, I think it would put to rest some of the mystery surrounding the case.

jmo

wfgodot
05-08-2012, 07:46 PM
Well, for one, we might be able to get a good idea of the sense(s) of urgency transmitted by the caller(s) in relation to the disappearance IF WE COULD BUT HEAR THE D+MN 911 RECORDINGS!!

And if we ever get far enough along in the process of maybe, JUST MAYBE, having the 911 calls released and T.B.I. says well, we'd like to, but there are names named on the tape(s) so we are afraid we'll have to hold on to them, JUST TELL THEM TO BEEP OUT THE D+MN NAME(S) AND PROCEED FROM THERE!!

No, no, I'm not frustrated, no, no, not me. Thanks.

shefner
05-09-2012, 12:19 AM
If I ever get invaded, abducted, kidnapped, assaulted, murdered, hi-jacked, car-jacked, robbed, or stranded.....I pray to the good Lord I'm not in Tennessee.

Plumeria5
05-09-2012, 03:10 AM
If I ever get invaded, abducted, kidnapped, assaulted, murdered, hi-jacked, car-jacked, robbed, or stranded.....I pray to the good Lord I'm not in Tennessee. Poor Holly. I feel so bad that this case has gone so cold. It is almost like Holly never existed and everyone has moved on...except for us of course.

Trident
05-09-2012, 06:27 AM
After reading just this short thread (I have read since the beginning, but not stuck to it), I'm starting to see this case in a new light.

First, we have Holly going into the woods with SOMEONE, as witnessed by her brother.

Secondly, we have a near-hysterical mother who tells her son to "get the gun," or some such close words.

Then we have a friend who bursts out crying because Holly does not show up for "THE" most important test.

After that we hear the brother saying (paraphrase) "we might not be seeing Holly for a long while," or some such.

Then we have her mom saying collected money will be used for a "vacation" for Holly when this is over - another paraphrase.

After that there is a drug bust (shades of Haleigh Cummings), and an investigation.

Now, MY theory, and MINE only, and this is just what I'm surmising - suppose Holly was a "plant" in a drug ring/operation? Suppose, bear with my idea for a minute, that mom knew about it, and that's why she was hysterical? Now, maybe brother didn't know all the details and was not so concerned, maybe he thought it was all part and parcel of her participation?

I know this may sound far-fetched, but. . . let us not forget the pastor (involved with the Bobos???) who killed the father of the bride.

There are several more "interesting" happenings, but that's enough for now.

I do believe there's a LOT more going on here than anyone can fathom due, in part, to the shifting stories, and the information blackout - a LOT more.

My opinion only :cow:

Carla Lashelle
05-09-2012, 10:12 AM
If I ever get invaded, abducted, kidnapped, assaulted, murdered, hi-jacked, car-jacked, robbed, or stranded.....I pray to the good Lord I'm not in Tennessee.

Or Florida...

OldSteve
05-09-2012, 11:59 AM
Snipped for brevity:


........................................
After reading just this short thread (I have read since the beginning, but not stuck to it), I'm starting to see this case in a new light.

Now, MY theory, and MINE only, and this is just what I'm surmising - suppose Holly was a "plant" in a drug ring/operation? Suppose, bear with my idea for a minute, that mom knew about it, and that's why she was hysterical? Now, maybe brother didn't know all the details and was not so concerned, maybe he thought it was all part and parcel of her participation?

I know this may sound far-fetched, but. . . let us not forget the pastor (involved with the Bobos???) who killed the father of the bride.
.............................................


Forgive my ignorance, but what is a plant in a drug ring/operation?

Carla Lashelle
05-09-2012, 12:09 PM
I took that as like an undercover buyer working with the cops to bust a drug ring (a theory that I do not buy) Most of those people are druggies that got busted and cut a deal to go after the higher ups in the business to get a reduced sentence themselves.

wfgodot
05-09-2012, 12:16 PM
Or Florida...
Or Oklahoma. But I'd take Oklahoma over Florida and especially over Tennessee.

Chili Fries
05-09-2012, 02:50 PM
I think this video pretty much rules out Karen hiding any knowledge of what happened to Holly. It seems obvious to me that she's a woman who has been very worn down by the months of not knowing.

http://www.abc24.com/news/local/story/TBI-Holly-Bobo-Not-a-Cold-Case/Tfg3_JkGgkGZ9hsdgTKhwQ.cspx

Oriah
05-09-2012, 03:06 PM
I think this video pretty much rules out Karen hiding any knowledge of what happened to Holly. It seems obvious to me that she's a woman who has been very worn down by the months of not knowing.

http://www.abc24.com/news/local/story/TBI-Holly-Bobo-Not-a-Cold-Case/Tfg3_JkGgkGZ9hsdgTKhwQ.cspx

Thanks for reposting this Chili Fries. I think the Bobo's are suffering from the unbelievable pain that can only come from from having your worst nightmare come true.

Having your precious child abducted, essentially right in front of your eyes and the eyes of such a small, tight-knit community, I imagine is something no one can understand- even those who have experienced it.
Just as everyone loves differently, everyone suffers differently.

My heart breaks for the Bobo family.

Carla Lashelle
05-10-2012, 08:08 AM
I never believed the family knew much more than they have disclosed unless it was some details that LE had told them not to discuss. You wouldn't quit your job, drop out of school, and devote your time to searching for your daughter/sister for a whole year just as some sort of cover up.

Hatfield
05-10-2012, 09:56 AM
Thanks for the link. It is a very sad situation, as we all just want Holly found.

I am so confused by it all though because of the totality of all the other confusing interviews combined together. A very recent example of why this case is so bizarre as compared to others is the recent case with the Mayes person on the run. The poor mother that was missing + killed (Joanne Bain) had some facebook postings that were publisized of her last postings involving something like...."a good venting always makes you feel better" or something like that as one of her last facebook posts. This was released I suppose to offer any possible clues when they were originally looking for her before they found her. So, with Holly's case, why is her last facebook posts not released as to maybe help offer clues to what happened. Everything in this case has been kept so secretive, as if somebody has a reason to hide things or something. It just doesn't make any sense to me to hide any of the facts of this case, when trying to offer clues to what has happened.

The JVM interview stands out to me as if they were trying to hide information about what had happened. If you watch that interview, it was like Jane had to pull teeth to get even the simplest of questions answered, and when the son finally started talking about some things, the Mom had a really strange reaction, as if she was trying to get him to stop talking and stop saying anything, IMO.

I realize we all would behave differently, and you can't conclude anything from watching reactions, but most of the interviews I have seen, the overall impression I get IMO is to limit what is said and hide some information. That is just the impression I get when I summarize all the different interviews together as a whole. And that doesn't make any sense to me when it seems you would want to share all you know to help find someone.

At least as the months went on, more information was finally released, so we did finally end up hearing many more details of info that may help find her, but as we all know, a lot of it conflicted with past information provided, so it became very confusing. Unfortunately because of the length of time it took to provide info, and all the conflicting information, I am afraid they have lost a lot of public support.

If things would have been handled better from the very beginning by everyone, I think it may have helped.

All JMO, of course.

Hatfield
05-10-2012, 10:52 AM
I'm not sure what we would learn if we did hear the 911 calls...LE has heard them, and they can't seem to solve the case...JMO

IMO, I think the critical thing we could learn is the actual timeline of who called who and when, so that we can determine the exact time Holly got taken. It would also help to confirm if all the different people were totally honest in their stories of what happened. Especially, when comparing the actual phone call logs against some of the statements and calls mentioned in the main Jackson article where a lot of specific phone calls + times were mentioned.

I hate to be skeptical of LE, but I really don't think LE gathered all the necessary phone call logs they needed to get. The reason I think this is because of the sheer number of people and phones that would need to be gathered to get a good analysis done.

Below is a list of all the phone logs that I feel LE should acquire to help solve this case. If all these records were gathered by LE, I honestly think they could either confirm everything is as stated (OR) just maybe find the culprit!!!

Because if something stands out as grossly inaccurate, it would raise a huge red flag.

These are all the Phone Records that are Important IMO
-----------------------------------------------------
-Holly Cell
-Holly House phone
-Mom Cell
-Dad Cell
-Clint Cell
-Grams Cell
-Grams House
-School phone (all the ones used, if multiple)
-D Cell
-D House
-D dad
-Friend at school that called her Cell
-Friend at school's house phone
-Neighbor son cell
-Neighbor Mother Cell
-Neighbor house
-Other friend that was mentioned that may have called
-Friend that talked with Clint night before in the chat
-Anybody that was called from Moms cell, Dads cell, Clints Cell that morning prior to the 911 calls, get their phone logs too, and see who they called, as they may have used that info to know she was alone at the house.

I am sure there are others that may also be important to look at, but as you can see, I am very skeptical that LE was able to obtain all these phone records and do a thorough analysis. I do really believe that it is possible that if these records were obtained and analyzed, it may possibly provide a clue as to what happened that morning.

I am really afraid that LE only looked at very few phone logs.

All JMO of course.

Hatfield
05-10-2012, 11:41 AM
After reading just this short thread (I have read since the beginning, but not stuck to it), I'm starting to see this case in a new light.

First, we have Holly going into the woods with SOMEONE, as witnessed by her brother.

Secondly, we have a near-hysterical mother who tells her son to "get the gun," or some such close words.

Then we have a friend who bursts out crying because Holly does not show up for "THE" most important test.

After that we hear the brother saying (paraphrase) "we might not be seeing Holly for a long while," or some such.

Then we have her mom saying collected money will be used for a "vacation" for Holly when this is over - another paraphrase.

After that there is a drug bust (shades of Haleigh Cummings), and an investigation.

Now, MY theory, and MINE only, and this is just what I'm surmising - suppose Holly was a "plant" in a drug ring/operation? Suppose, bear with my idea for a minute, that mom knew about it, and that's why she was hysterical? Now, maybe brother didn't know all the details and was not so concerned, maybe he thought it was all part and parcel of her participation?

I know this may sound far-fetched, but. . . let us not forget the pastor (involved with the Bobos???) who killed the father of the bride.

There are several more "interesting" happenings, but that's enough for now.

I do believe there's a LOT more going on here than anyone can fathom due, in part, to the shifting stories, and the information blackout - a LOT more.

My opinion only :cow:


IMO, its possible and as good a theory as anything. It would explain some of the reactions if something like this was the case. Let's remember the Sheriff's reaction too during the first interview. He was crying, and that reaction could have been also if he felt some sort of responsiblity if somehow he had asked Holly to help in some type of undercover operation.

Afterall, they apparantly were friends or at least close with the Sheriff, so its possible that maybe Holly was doing some sort of favor for LE (OR) maybe even to help someone she cared about that may have gotten in some trouble, so maybe she volunteered to help. Anything is possible IMO.

That is what is so difficult with this case, is there are so many possibilities as to what happened.

This particular theory is possible IMO because of the timing of that rogue LE officer that got arrested for releasing the names of informants on some sort of LIST. That made big news, and that happened shortly before Holly disappeared, so I have always wondered if somehow that was connected in some way.

I realize a lot of our WS people have hashed + re-hashed some of these same discusssions over and over, so I apoligize for bringing up some of the same old discussions. I keep waiting for some breaking news that they have found her. I keep praying that will happen some day.

houndstooth
05-10-2012, 12:15 PM
I think this video pretty much rules out Karen hiding any knowledge of what happened to Holly. It seems obvious to me that she's a woman who has been very worn down by the months of not knowing.

http://www.abc24.com/news/local/story/TBI-Holly-Bobo-Not-a-Cold-Case/Tfg3_JkGgkGZ9hsdgTKhwQ.cspx

I can't believe that reporter actually had to say "A Christmas without Holly" with a straight face.
So lame.

Here's the most crucial part of the video for me.
Pause on 1:11.
Do you see who they are still saying was Clint?
Why it's Drew in the pic with Holly and Rascal!
AGAIN!
Granted that someone tried to blend or change the appearance so that
in a brief glimpse you thought that might be Clint, but it isn't.

Matter of fact, it's hard to even find a pic of Clint in amongst the
mountain of photos of Holly on the Piano Shrine.

What is up with that?

Point being, the media has followed this case longer than I have, why did they attempt
to deceive viewers after 8 months continuously about the Drew/Clint photo images, or as I have dubbed these morphs, Clew!

Hatfield
05-10-2012, 01:57 PM
I can't believe that reporter actually had to say "A Christmas without Holly" with a straight face.
So lame.

Here's the most crucial part of the video for me.
Pause on 1:11.
Do you see who they are still saying was Clint?
Why it's Drew in the pic with Holly and Rascal!
AGAIN!
Granted that someone tried to blend or change the appearance so that
in a brief glimpse you thought that might be Clint, but it isn't.

Matter of fact, it's hard to even find a pic of Clint in amongst the
mountain of photos of Holly on the Piano Shrine.

What is up with that?

Point being, the media has followed this case longer than I have, why did they attempt
to deceive viewers after 8 months continuously about the Drew/Clint photo images, or as I have dubbed these morphs, Clew!

That is an amazing "catch", and the News sure did try to quickly slide that blurred-to-clear frame or 2 in there very quickly. They purposely tried to mislead us there. Maybe they did that only because they did not find a good picture of Clint with Holly, but that sure is strange, and I can't believe they even did that. There are other pictures of just Clint they could have used, so they did not have to mislead us. Very strange and very odd indeed.

Along the lines of pictures, I have noticed there is an amazing number of different pictures with Holly + her BF together. They posed in many many pictures through multiple years it seems, so got to thinking about that. Which one of them wanted to take so many pictures together? Most guys do not like having their picture taken. They must have really felt like their relationship would be a very long lasting relationship for so many pictures to be taken together. Which makes me wonder about the rumored breakup. If the rumor of a breakup occurring 3 days prior has any merit, then it would have been very tramatic on the BF, just based on the number of pictures we see them together in. If that rumor is true, then it would have been absolutely devasting, and not a normal teen BF/GF breakup situation. If the rumor of a breakup is true, it would have been more like a divorce IMO. If we all think back to our early first loves, we can kind of remember just a glimmer of how devastating something like that could be. But when you add on the years of being together that it appears they were together, it amplifies that tremendously for 2 young people.

Not sure if any of this matters, but it could povide some insight to what was going on at the time and how people felt.

SUNchips
05-10-2012, 05:17 PM
Do you see who they are still saying was Clint?
Why it's Drew in the pic with Holly and Rascal!
AGAIN!
Granted that someone tried to blend or change the appearance so that
in a brief glimpse you thought that might be Clint, but it isn't.

Matter of fact, it's hard to even find a pic of Clint in amongst the
mountain of photos of Holly on the Piano Shrine.

What is up with that?


Respectfully snipped.
I still still nothing "blended" or changed in Drew's appearance in that picture, or any other for that matter. I remember this being discussed a while ago, but I have zoomed into that dog picture and others and do not see anything Photoshopped at all IMO. Probably the only photo to me that has ever seemed hinky was this one (I hope the link works)
http://i.ytimg.com/vi/Q1-BRZGXafA/0.jpg
Does anyone else think the top right corner of the photo looks weird? Like it has been Photoshopped out in a blue gray color. Just IMO.

IMO the piano shrine was made that way after Holly's disappearance. I assume there were maybe 3-5 pictures up there before the disappearance, and for whatever reason they put all the other pictures of her up there too, as a remembrance to their missing child. Not weird to me at all.

Hatfield
05-10-2012, 06:16 PM
Respectfully snipped.
I still still nothing "blended" or changed in Drew's appearance in that picture, or any other for that matter. I remember this being discussed a while ago, but I have zoomed into that dog picture and others and do not see anything Photoshopped at all IMO. Probably the only photo to me that has ever seemed hinky was this one (I hope the link works)
http://i.ytimg.com/vi/Q1-BRZGXafA/0.jpg
Does anyone else think the top right corner of the photo looks weird? Like it has been Photoshopped out in a blue gray color. Just IMO.

IMO the piano shrine was made that way after Holly's disappearance. I assume there were maybe 3-5 pictures up there before the disappearance, and for whatever reason they put all the other pictures of her up there too, as a remembrance to their missing child. Not weird to me at all.

For the "news clip video" that was linked to, I had to stop it with the PAUSE button exactly at that 1:11 minute mark that Houndstooth indicates, and as I moved back 1 second and forward 1 second, the photo shifts from a very blurry picture to a real clear picture of "Drew" (not Clint), so to me, the part that bothered me the most, is why would the News try to claim that was Clint. Unless they just wanted a picture of with Holly in it too, and couldnt find a good one with Clint in it, so they used one of Drews. But jeeezzzz, to go that far, would seem a little ridiculous to me. The fact that it truly is blurred in one frame and clear in the next, does kind of make me believe they purposely knew it wasn't Clint and pulled a "fast one". LOL A really fast one, because that frame flies by so fast, you kind of miss the whole picture anyway. LOL

For the picture you mention above, I think the top right corner could be maybe a gold fish pond or some other type of water behind her. If you look real close near her left ear, you can see where the rock path ends, and I am wondering if that is just a small pond of water there. Just a guess. But I do agree that corner of the photo jumps out as being different, but I am thinking it is some water possibly.

Hatfield
05-10-2012, 06:28 PM
For the "news clip video" that was linked to, I had to stop it with the PAUSE button exactly at that 1:11 minute mark that Houndstooth indicates, and as I moved back 1 second and forward 1 second, the photo shifts from a very blurry picture to a real clear picture of "Drew" (not Clint), so to me, the part that bothered me the most, is why would the News try to claim that was Clint. Unless they just wanted a picture of with Holly in it too, and couldnt find a good one with Clint in it, so they used one of Drews. But jeeezzzz, to go that far, would seem a little ridiculous to me. The fact that it truly is blurred in one frame and clear in the next, does kind of make me believe they purposely knew it wasn't Clint and pulled a "fast one". LOL A really fast one, because that frame flies by so fast, you kind of miss the whole picture anyway. LOL

For the picture you mention above, I think the top right corner could be maybe a gold fish pond or some other type of water behind her. If you look real close near her left ear, you can see where the rock path ends, and I am wondering if that is just a small pond of water there. Just a guess. But I do agree that corner of the photo jumps out as being different, but I am thinking it is some water possibly.

Just to clarify how I saw it change from blurry to clear is I had to left click the scrolling button and drag it to where I thought 1:11 would be exactly and let it go. Once I found the spot, I would drag it slightly in front and let it go, and that is where the blurred image came up. It is tough to drag it perfectly on the spot, but I think it is immediately before the 1:11 spot. I tried it a bunch of times, and only managed to find the spot a couple times. It is hard to drag and drop the position just right to see the blurred image. I think 1:11 is slightly too far....I think it is about 1 frame before that.

Its almost as if they spliced the film, and inserted a blurred frame or 2 in there in the movie. JMO

Reality Orlando
05-10-2012, 07:59 PM
Or Oklahoma. But I'd take Oklahoma over Florida and especially over Tennessee.

Seriously, I love Florida. I'd take it over most every state I've been in. I think the Florida bashing is uncalled for. Keep in mind that the Sunshine Laws make FL crimes much more transparent than other states. There are also pockets in FL that are bad but certainly not the whole state.

eileenhawkeye
05-10-2012, 08:20 PM
Seriously, I love Florida. I'd take it over most every state I've been in. I think the Florida bashing is uncalled for. Keep in mind that the Sunshine Laws make FL crimes much more transparent than other states. There are also pockets in FL that are bad but certainly not the whole state.

I agree. There are unsolved cases in every state. There are missing children in every state. There are horrific murders in every state. Why people will judge an entire state by one or two high-profile cases is beyond me.

houndstooth
05-10-2012, 10:11 PM
That is an amazing "catch", and the News sure did try to quickly slide that blurred-to-clear frame or 2 in there very quickly. They purposely tried to mislead us there. Maybe they did that only because they did not find a good picture of Clint with Holly, but that sure is strange, and I can't believe they even did that. There are other pictures of just Clint they could have used, so they did not have to mislead us. Very strange and very odd indeed.

Along the lines of pictures, I have noticed there is an amazing number of different pictures with Holly + her BF together. They posed in many many pictures through multiple years it seems, so got to thinking about that. Which one of them wanted to take so many pictures together? Most guys do not like having their picture taken. They must have really felt like their relationship would be a very long lasting relationship for so many pictures to be taken together. Which makes me wonder about the rumored breakup. If the rumor of a breakup occurring 3 days prior has any merit, then it would have been very tramatic on the BF, just based on the number of pictures we see them together in. If that rumor is true, then it would have been absolutely devasting, and not a normal teen BF/GF breakup situation. If the rumor of a breakup is true, it would have been more like a divorce IMO. If we all think back to our early first loves, we can kind of remember just a glimmer of how devastating something like that could be. But when you add on the years of being together that it appears they were together, it amplifies that tremendously for 2 young people.

Not sure if any of this matters, but it could povide some insight to what was going on at the time and how people felt.

They did this a number of times in the media. Showed a picture of Drew and called him Clint.
To understand what you are seeing in the video, you might want to trekk on over to Cranky Crankerson's photos of Holly's case and look for this picture of Holly, Drew and the dog.
There you can see again, probably better because you can enlarge it to see what has been done to the photo there also. So if you liked it in the video, you're going to love the individual pic!

What I found odd about the Drew/Holly pics was yeah the shear number of them, but more that she never took one of just Drew...ever that we have been shown.
Most girls would want a pic of their bf to put by a nightstand.
She only took a picture of him with herself in it.
There is something to the psychology of that also.

In the video interview done at their house in the closed in garageroom.
There is a pic there also, I freeze on. It is of Karen, Clint and Holly on a balcony. This photo is left with the whole right side of it erased out inside the frame. You can see an intact version of this photo at Cranky's also.

houndstooth
05-10-2012, 10:16 PM
Respectfully snipped.
I still still nothing "blended" or changed in Drew's appearance in that picture, or any other for that matter. I remember this being discussed a while ago, but I have zoomed into that dog picture and others and do not see anything Photoshopped at all IMO. Probably the only photo to me that has ever seemed hinky was this one (I hope the link works)
http://i.ytimg.com/vi/Q1-BRZGXafA/0.jpg
Does anyone else think the top right corner of the photo looks weird? Like it has been Photoshopped out in a blue gray color. Just IMO.

IMO the piano shrine was made that way after Holly's disappearance. I assume there were maybe 3-5 pictures up there before the disappearance, and for whatever reason they put all the other pictures of her up there too, as a remembrance to their missing child. Not weird to me at all.

I think her arm looks weird somehow. But, it doesn't bother me like a lot of others do. Drew's height being changed in several for one thing.

You might not think anything about the piano shrine, but then you aren't the son living with parents who did. The only time I really feel sorry for Clint is when I see something like that and get an insight to what life must be like for HIM now.

houndstooth
05-10-2012, 10:26 PM
For the "news clip video" that was linked to, I had to stop it with the PAUSE button exactly at that 1:11 minute mark that Houndstooth indicates, and as I moved back 1 second and forward 1 second, the photo shifts from a very blurry picture to a real clear picture of "Drew" (not Clint), so to me, the part that bothered me the most, is why would the News try to claim that was Clint. Unless they just wanted a picture of with Holly in it too, and couldnt find a good one with Clint in it, so they used one of Drews. But jeeezzzz, to go that far, would seem a little ridiculous to me. The fact that it truly is blurred in one frame and clear in the next, does kind of make me believe they purposely knew it wasn't Clint and pulled a "fast one". LOL A really fast one, because that frame flies by so fast, you kind of miss the whole picture anyway. LOL

For the picture you mention above, I think the top right corner could be maybe a gold fish pond or some other type of water behind her. If you look real close near her left ear, you can see where the rock path ends, and I am wondering if that is just a small pond of water there. Just a guess. But I do agree that corner of the photo jumps out as being different, but I am thinking it is some water possibly.

It has bothered me A LOT, ever since I first came across some of those that were photoshopped, and then the media would have to KNOW they are also.
I'd never come across this in a case before.

When you get to Cranky's

http://s296.photobucket.com/albums/mm166/crankycrankerson/Holly%20Bobo%20%20-TN-/

Just scroll through and examine the pics enlarged between 200%-400%,
and just look at how much the pics have nearly one and all been photo edited.

Thanks. Most people don't even want to talk about it.

Mr. Noatak
05-11-2012, 05:09 AM
As most know a lot of us have been around from the start of Holly's "believed abduction" and have combed over the ever changing details of that morning in every single way imaginable.. Plugging in and editing out new or different details that we've been told over the course of the last year.. It is mind numbing after a while and while still holding hope that her case can be solved one day.. It's definitely not a case that after having followed and analyzed every detail by detail that you can daily rinse and repeat.. It truly could make one crazy simply for the fact that those most close to her.. Are the very ones that were witness and present yet to this day over a year later cannot relay the events of that morning with any consistency whatsoever.. It is more than baffling..

Many know my hard questions I've asked and have thoroughly combed through those particulars I have such a problem with(many agree, some do not.. And that is all ok, too:)).. Those issues and questions remain and IMO may not ever be answered.. Just as Holly may not ever be brought home.. IMO its not gonna happen unless there is a definite change in the mode of the case.. Her case still has the "staying power" in the media.. She very easily could be right back in the center of media spotlight(and I think we all can agree that can only be a positive).. Her case can be revived and resolved as a result.. At this time I see no one interested in seeing this happen in fact there are ppl who want this to just all go Away and act as tho it never even happened.. Forget that Holly Bobo ever even existed.. That's just not an option and I so wish that there could be a revived movement to her case:(.. Most are of the opinion it's very unlikely to happen(and I'm one of them)..

As far as anything new or different.. Naa.. Moo but the basic skeleton of the case has remained intact for me.. To put in a nutshell what I mean is the basics that are important to me without getting into the thousands of details that any who have been around know that there are literal hundreds of my extremely long winded posts where I have thoroughly broke down and discussed ALL OF THEM AND THEN SOME!!!.. Along with a minute by minute breakdown of the detailed timeline of that morning.. I will not bore you all with a repeat of all of that, but rather just put in a nutshell these basics that are present and remain no matter what version is given by what member of the family.. These basic issues remain..

-Clint throughout the entire sequence of events that morning WAS IN NO WAY believing Holly to be in any danger, nor that there was ANYTHING SERIOUS OR WORRISOME taking place.. Clint stays in that very specific frame of mind.. Throughout his seeing kneeling figures, turkey or not, throughout phonecallS(plural) with mom(who we know was falling out in hysterics) Clint remained of the frame of mind that Holly was in NoDanger..his sisters pool of blood next to her car.. STILL NO ANGST AND CONCERN.. After his mother having told him otherwise CLINT STILL WATCHED HOLLY AND CAMO MAN WALK TOWARDS THE WOODS without so much as even a calling out to Holly from the door..NOTHING.. Even after mom told him it wasnt Drew.. Clint still BELIEVED IT TO BE DREW AND OF THE FRAME OF MIND THERE WAS ZERO DANGER..

This frame of mind for Clint remained consistent throughout the entire events of the morning..

- as I've thoroughly discussed Mom's frame of mind could have not been more opposite to Clint's in complete hysterics before anything was even "known".. Falling out in hysterics, crying out to Clint to get the gun and go after Holly.. Numerous 911 calls and setting in motion the emergency calls for all to come immediately to the Bobo residence..

Her frame of mind could not be more opposite of Clint's.. It could not be more black to Clint's being bright white.. Truly polar opposites AND MOST IMPORTANT IMO IS THE FACT THAT NEITHER END OF THAT HUGE SPECTRUM THAT EACH WERE FIRMLY PLANTED AT.. Clint at ZERO ANXIETY/CONCERN.. All the way to the other end of the spectrum.. Mom at FULL BLOWN ANXIETY/HYSTERICS before ever even finding out that Holly had even walked "towards" their backyard treeline with a man her son said was Drew..

Neither of each of their extremes on the spectrum are "normal".. Normal in a sense of standard human behavior.. Yes it's relative.. But I believe most will agree that neither of those two extreme, polar opposite frame of minds is really appropriate for what events were occurring..AS THEY WERE OCCURRING.. I wont drone on most know exactly what I mean and agree that the two extremes are far from what would match with the sequence of events that occurred..

I'll leave it at that and only say that when looking at the details and sequence of events as WE ALL KNOW THEM TO HAVE OCCURRED PER CLINT MAINLY.. And know that Clint had zero worry, anxiety, or concern for or about Holly throughout it all including finding a pool of her blood next to her car.. Still no worry, concern.. Remember it was turkey blood he thought:eye roll: ..

So of ALL the people.. And of ALL the things to say why in the hell would Clint have made the statement that HIS FRAME OF MIND WAS THAT THEY WOULD NOT BE GETTING HOLLY BACK ANY TIME SOON??????????..

Talk about not adding up??.. And there is no southern drawl or southern "way"(remember I am right here in Tennessee for the last 34years of my 36 years of life) or lack of education or intelligence to excuse the issue here(as is known to be thrown out as the excuses for Clint, specifically and especially).. Those do not apply here AT ALL..

Until the truth is known about that April 13, 2011 morning at the Bobo residence IMPHO Holly doesn't stand a chance of being found and certainly not having justice served on her behalf!!


____________________...
Posting via mobile as well as via tablet so plz forgive all typos.. Btwn the sucky touch keyboard and the obsessive auto-correct it's a big ol' mess :crazy:

My opinions only, no facts here:

The official line is that on the morning of the abduction, Holly's mother knew that Holly's boyfriend was out hunting and far away, but Holly's brother did not know this detail. That could explain why the mother was immediately terrified and the brother was not.

I have been away from Websleuths for awhile, because in the absence of new information, I decided to focus on where to look for Holly if this is indeed a homicide. I earlier favored an area about a mile north of Holly's house. I am now becoming equally interested in Bible Hill proper.

On another tangent, I believe that at some point, the withholding of information from the public actually decreases the chances of solving a case. And the point at which this occurs is when witness memories begin to fade. For example, if investigators had the report of a vehicle of a certain model and color, it will do very little good to release that info 5 years from now. Frankly, I think it is already too late for a release of information, but strangely... this case is still solvable.

Mr. Noatak
05-11-2012, 05:14 AM
As most know a lot of us have been around from the start of Holly's "believed abduction" and have combed over the ever changing details of that morning in every single way imaginable.. Plugging in and editing out new or different details that we've been told over the course of the last year.. It is mind numbing after a while and while still holding hope that her case can be solved one day.. It's definitely not a case that after having followed and analyzed every detail by detail that you can daily rinse and repeat.. It truly could make one crazy simply for the fact that those most close to her.. Are the very ones that were witness and present yet to this day over a year later cannot relay the events of that morning with any consistency whatsoever.. It is more than baffling..

Many know my hard questions I've asked and have thoroughly combed through those particulars I have such a problem with(many agree, some do not.. And that is all ok, too:)).. Those issues and questions remain and IMO may not ever be answered.. Just as Holly may not ever be brought home.. IMO its not gonna happen unless there is a definite change in the mode of the case.. Her case still has the "staying power" in the media.. She very easily could be right back in the center of media spotlight(and I think we all can agree that can only be a positive).. Her case can be revived and resolved as a result.. At this time I see no one interested in seeing this happen in fact there are ppl who want this to just all go Away and act as tho it never even happened.. Forget that Holly Bobo ever even existed.. That's just not an option and I so wish that there could be a revived movement to her case:(.. Most are of the opinion it's very unlikely to happen(and I'm one of them)..

As far as anything new or different.. Naa.. Moo but the basic skeleton of the case has remained intact for me.. To put in a nutshell what I mean is the basics that are important to me without getting into the thousands of details that any who have been around know that there are literal hundreds of my extremely long winded posts where I have thoroughly broke down and discussed ALL OF THEM AND THEN SOME!!!.. Along with a minute by minute breakdown of the detailed timeline of that morning.. I will not bore you all with a repeat of all of that, but rather just put in a nutshell these basics that are present and remain no matter what version is given by what member of the family.. These basic issues remain..

-Clint throughout the entire sequence of events that morning WAS IN NO WAY believing Holly to be in any danger, nor that there was ANYTHING SERIOUS OR WORRISOME taking place.. Clint stays in that very specific frame of mind.. Throughout his seeing kneeling figures, turkey or not, throughout phonecallS(plural) with mom(who we know was falling out in hysterics) Clint remained of the frame of mind that Holly was in NoDanger..his sisters pool of blood next to her car.. STILL NO ANGST AND CONCERN.. After his mother having told him otherwise CLINT STILL WATCHED HOLLY AND CAMO MAN WALK TOWARDS THE WOODS without so much as even a calling out to Holly from the door..NOTHING.. Even after mom told him it wasnt Drew.. Clint still BELIEVED IT TO BE DREW AND OF THE FRAME OF MIND THERE WAS ZERO DANGER..

This frame of mind for Clint remained consistent throughout the entire events of the morning..

- as I've thoroughly discussed Mom's frame of mind could have not been more opposite to Clint's in complete hysterics before anything was even "known".. Falling out in hysterics, crying out to Clint to get the gun and go after Holly.. Numerous 911 calls and setting in motion the emergency calls for all to come immediately to the Bobo residence..

Her frame of mind could not be more opposite of Clint's.. It could not be more black to Clint's being bright white.. Truly polar opposites AND MOST IMPORTANT IMO IS THE FACT THAT NEITHER END OF THAT HUGE SPECTRUM THAT EACH WERE FIRMLY PLANTED AT.. Clint at ZERO ANXIETY/CONCERN.. All the way to the other end of the spectrum.. Mom at FULL BLOWN ANXIETY/HYSTERICS before ever even finding out that Holly had even walked "towards" their backyard treeline with a man her son said was Drew..

Neither of each of their extremes on the spectrum are "normal".. Normal in a sense of standard human behavior.. Yes it's relative.. But I believe most will agree that neither of those two extreme, polar opposite frame of minds is really appropriate for what events were occurring..AS THEY WERE OCCURRING.. I wont drone on most know exactly what I mean and agree that the two extremes are far from what would match with the sequence of events that occurred..

I'll leave it at that and only say that when looking at the details and sequence of events as WE ALL KNOW THEM TO HAVE OCCURRED PER CLINT MAINLY.. And know that Clint had zero worry, anxiety, or concern for or about Holly throughout it all including finding a pool of her blood next to her car.. Still no worry, concern.. Remember it was turkey blood he thought:eye roll: ..

So of ALL the people.. And of ALL the things to say why in the hell would Clint have made the statement that HIS FRAME OF MIND WAS THAT THEY WOULD NOT BE GETTING HOLLY BACK ANY TIME SOON??????????..

Talk about not adding up??.. And there is no southern drawl or southern "way"(remember I am right here in Tennessee for the last 34years of my 36 years of life) or lack of education or intelligence to excuse the issue here(as is known to be thrown out as the excuses for Clint, specifically and especially).. Those do not apply here AT ALL..

Until the truth is known about that April 13, 2011 morning at the Bobo residence IMPHO Holly doesn't stand a chance of being found and certainly not having justice served on her behalf!!


____________________...
Posting via mobile as well as via tablet so plz forgive all typos.. Btwn the sucky touch keyboard and the obsessive auto-correct it's a big ol' mess :crazy:

My opinions only, no facts here:

The official line is that on the morning of the abduction, Holly's mother knew that Holly's boyfriend was out hunting and far away, but Holly's brother did not know this detail. That could explain why the mother was immediately terrified and the brother was not.

I have been away from Websleuths for awhile, because in the absence of new information, I decided to focus on where to look for Holly if this is indeed a homicide. I earlier favored an area about a mile north of Holly's house. I am now becoming equally interested in Bible Hill proper.

On another tangent, I believe that at some point, the withholding of information from the public actually decreases the chances of solving a case. And the point at which this occurs is when witness memories begin to fade. For example, if investigators had the report of a vehicle of a certain model and color, it will do very little good to release that info 5 years from now. Frankly, I think it is already too late for a release of information, but strangely... this case is still solvable.

Carla Lashelle
05-11-2012, 08:25 AM
Seriously, I love Florida. I'd take it over most every state I've been in. I think the Florida bashing is uncalled for. Keep in mind that the Sunshine Laws make FL crimes much more transparent than other states. There are also pockets in FL that are bad but certainly not the whole state.

I already mentioned the Sunshine laws on the last page. I live in Florida and its a mess here. I can think of probably two dozen botched major crimes in the last couple of years. The Denise Amber Lee case being one of them, but essentially the same thing happened here in Tampa just a short while later.

houndstooth
05-11-2012, 10:00 AM
I am trying to think of any case I've followed recently that went to trial and got a conviction.

Either they ended unsatisfactorily with a plea bargain and no trial so that you never got answers.
Or it went to trial and the person either acquitted or found guilty on lesser charges.
Or arrested for an unrelated case and held in limboland.

Or they remain a mystery unsolved to this day.

Maybe I'm following the wrong cases if I want a sense of justice at the end and secrets revealed.

OldSteve
05-11-2012, 10:32 AM
My opinions only, no facts here:

The official line is that on the morning of the abduction, Holly's mother knew that Holly's boyfriend was out hunting and far away, but Holly's brother did not know this detail. That could explain why the mother was immediately terrified and the brother was not.

I have been away from Websleuths for awhile, because in the absence of new information, I decided to focus on where to look for Holly if this is indeed a homicide. I earlier favored an area about a mile north of Holly's house. I am now becoming equally interested in Bible Hill proper.

On another tangent, I believe that at some point, the withholding of information from the public actually decreases the chances of solving a case. And the point at which this occurs is when witness memories begin to fade. For example, if investigators had the report of a vehicle of a certain model and color, it will do very little good to release that info 5 years from now. Frankly, I think it is already too late for a release of information, but strangely... this case is still solvable.

Always enjoy reading your thoughts on cases, as well as your interesting style of expressing them! Glad to see you back!

Hatfield
05-11-2012, 11:02 AM
My opinions only, no facts here:

The official line is that on the morning of the abduction, Holly's mother knew that Holly's boyfriend was out hunting and far away, but Holly's brother did not know this detail. That could explain why the mother was immediately terrified and the brother was not.

I have been away from Websleuths for awhile, because in the absence of new information, I decided to focus on where to look for Holly if this is indeed a homicide. I earlier favored an area about a mile north of Holly's house. I am now becoming equally interested in Bible Hill proper.

On another tangent, I believe that at some point, the withholding of information from the public actually decreases the chances of solving a case. And the point at which this occurs is when witness memories begin to fade. For example, if investigators had the report of a vehicle of a certain model and color, it will do very little good to release that info 5 years from now. Frankly, I think it is already too late for a release of information, but strangely... this case is still solvable.

Good Post. Especially the part I bolded above, as I think at the very beginning when LE got there, that is exactly what they needed to do. Grab their guns and go in and get her, darn it. The whole...."wait on dogs, protect the investigation, keep people from trampling on tracks--this part from witness no less!!", is a bunch of crap because they got there literally minutes after it supposedly happened, so run in there and try to get her back, darn it.

I just cringe when I hear ......"witholding info to protect the investigation"...........because until you get her back, nothing matters. Look at it this way......So what if you have enough info to prosecute someone......If she never comes back or is never found, what good is that?

I've always said to find her first is the main priority, and to release all you know from the get go is very important to help find her. So, all this withholding of info and secrecy, and changing stories.......of course it makes one suspicious of things.

Sorry, end rant.

OldSteve
05-11-2012, 12:40 PM
I think at the very beginning there was too much confusion, too many cooks spoiling the broth as I think the old saying goes...
Remember there was a interview where Karen said how she felt roadblocks should have set up right away, and how she felt too many were just mulling around and nothing was happening (I'm paraphrasing)...
I really thought this case would be solved since LE was involved so early on, whereas many missing person cases go through a waiting period before LE goes into action... but, as I've mentioned on other threads I follow, thanks to all the CSI shows, some perps seem to be more savvy these days...

Chili Fries
05-11-2012, 02:29 PM
I think at the very beginning there was too much confusion, too many cooks spoiling the broth as I think the old saying goes...
Remember there was a interview where Karen said how she felt roadblocks should have set up right away, and how she felt too many were just mulling around and nothing was happening (I'm paraphrasing)...
I really thought this case would be solved since LE was involved so early on, whereas many missing person cases go through a waiting period before LE goes into action... but, as I've mentioned on other threads I follow, thanks to all the CSI shows, some perps seem to be more savvy these days...

Not to let the local law enforcement off the hook, but I think these type of failures by the first responders are in part due to the fact that these types of small towns and counties don't usually have experience dealing with these situations. Whether it's Boulder CO, Mitchell County/Colorado City TX, Parsons/Decatur County TN or wherever. The question is...what can be done about that? It would be nice to see more of these localities undergo training for these moments of serious criminal crisis but there are so many of these small, usually safe towns/rural counties all over the country and training has to be paid for and kept up to date. The problem is that you don't know when one of these type of crimes is going to randomly happen somewhere.

Still, every locality large or small should be very alert to complacency and any erosion of professionalism in it's day to day operations. I know how that from my own line of work...I worked as an analytical chemist and geochemist for many years and it's easy to get complacent with your quality control procedures and documentation. That stuff is tedious and often seems redundant because it usually turns out the same, but you do it for the one time out of 100 when things are unusual, not the other 99 times when they are routine.

And as for them releasing more info...maybe they really don't have any other than the blood, lunchbox and cell phone. I'm sure LE have their suspicions about local creeps, people who may have had friction with Holly or the Bobo family, maybe even people close to Holly like some here think or whoever. But maybe nothing solid so they can't going to come out in public and name a POI.

Hatfield
05-11-2012, 03:32 PM
Not to let the local law enforcement off the hook, but I think these type of failures by the first responders are in part due to the fact that these types of small towns and counties don't usually have experience dealing with these situations. Whether it's Boulder CO, Mitchell County/Colorado City TX, Parsons/Decatur County TN or wherever. The question is...what can be done about that? It would be nice to see more of these localities undergo training for these moments of serious criminal crisis but there are so many of these small, usually safe towns/rural counties all over the country and training has to be paid for and kept up to date. The problem is that you don't know when one of these type of crimes is going to randomly happen somewhere.

Still, every locality large or small should be very alert to complacency and any erosion of professionalism in it's day to day operations. I know how that from my own line of work...I worked as an analytical chemist and geochemist for many years and it's easy to get complacent with your quality control procedures and documentation. That stuff is tedious and often seems redundant because it usually turns out the same, but you do it for the one time out of 100 when things are unusual, not the other 99 times when they are routine.

And as for them releasing more info...maybe they really don't have any other than the blood, lunchbox and cell phone. I'm sure LE have their suspicions about local creeps, people who may have had friction with Holly or the Bobo family, maybe even people close to Holly like some here think or whoever. But maybe nothing solid so they can't going to come out in public and name a POI.

Good points about the training, and I agree with all of that part. There should be enough money from Homeland Security for most places to have updated training on how to handle an abduction situation, I would think, because I had heard so much about how money was being given to LE departments from this type of fund. But whether each small town got money or not, that is a good question, and whether each town used it all for the same reasons, etc. They all probably have different needs, and maybe more dire needs like new police cars or something become important to them. But, anyway, I do agree they should have the training, as it is important.

IMO, regarding releasing information, I don't recall LE releasing practically anything. It wasn't until the intereviews and the Jackson article where we started hearing some more details about some things, but this is quite different than LE giving a statement. Because people could be mistaken or had forgot some things or maybe even purposely left out some critical things. I would love to have LE confirm some things and release all the facts of this case, in some sort of media event, which could possibly help this case. If nothing else, it would help to bring more focus to the case, after a year already.

Here's a hypothetical. Wouldn't it be something if it went something like this with LE speaking at an advance notice press conference.......

"Hello ladies + gentleman.....We are here today to release all the facts of this case as we know it, with the hopes of helping to find Holly. And we will be taking questions afterwards.

First, we will be releasing the actual 911 calls + Sheriffs calls we received that morning in their entirety (play tapes). Now, we want to begin with the reported statements as reported to us that morning, and we have provided a copy of those statements to the media. Next, we want to state all the evidence we have uncovered that are proven to be owned by Holly and exactly where they were found, and what day they were found. We searched them for fingerprints, and the results were....

We also found small amounts of blood (explained in full exactly how much and where exactly it was found). We tested that blood and it proved to be (explains who it belongs to). We feel this blood was (either fresh or not fresh).

We also......(explain anything + everything else you possibly can here).

Thank you all for coming today, and please help us find Holly. Now, we are ready for ALL questions"

TxLady2
05-11-2012, 05:29 PM
After reading just this short thread (I have read since the beginning, but not stuck to it), I'm starting to see this case in a new light.

First, we have Holly going into the woods with SOMEONE, as witnessed by her brother.

Secondly, we have a near-hysterical mother who tells her son to "get the gun," or some such close words.

Then we have a friend who bursts out crying because Holly does not show up for "THE" most important test.

After that we hear the brother saying (paraphrase) "we might not be seeing Holly for a long while," or some such.

Then we have her mom saying collected money will be used for a "vacation" for Holly when this is over - another paraphrase.

After that there is a drug bust (shades of Haleigh Cummings), and an investigation.

Now, MY theory, and MINE only, and this is just what I'm surmising - suppose Holly was a "plant" in a drug ring/operation? Suppose, bear with my idea for a minute, that mom knew about it, and that's why she was hysterical? Now, maybe brother didn't know all the details and was not so concerned, maybe he thought it was all part and parcel of her participation?

I know this may sound far-fetched, but. . . let us not forget the pastor (involved with the Bobos???) who killed the father of the bride.

There are several more "interesting" happenings, but that's enough for now.

I do believe there's a LOT more going on here than anyone can fathom due, in part, to the shifting stories, and the information blackout - a LOT more.

My opinion only :cow:

Pardon me, but since when does LE use a civilian as a "plant" in a drug sting? They do not usually send a civilian, particularly a young woman, into a drug operation because that would be dangerous. Drug dealers carry guns. I've never heard of anything like this. Informants, yes... but not a plant. That's a job for an undercover cop.

TxLady2
05-11-2012, 05:35 PM
I think it is very easy to get confused following this case. Up is down, left is right and so on. We have multiple versions of the ongoing narrative from the Bobo family, cryptic and very pointed comments made by LE and 5 pounds of crazy in a 1 pound bag following it. The lack of ANY information provided in this case combined with LE stopping searches and repeatedly saying that they believe the abductor is local and the investigation has not left the Darden/Parsons area is the only way to read between the lines in this case. CB is a supposed eye witness to the events of that morning, his accounts are very skewed and lead nowhere. It would make sense that there is information he probably should not share, but that does not explain the convoluted stories we have been given. There is a really simple version that could be offered, CB woke up and saw his sister walking away. The problem here stems from all of the confusing perspectives we are given as CB tells his story. From meter readers, HB car still at home when CB knew it shouldn't be, calling his mother to see who he is looking at, phantom turkeys, to the quote that he did not think she would be coming back anytime soon and etc... (Also keep in mind we did not know any of the Bobo's actual story until they spoke with the media almost 3 months later)
CB is either telling bald faced lies or trying to fool other people, maybe the one who does know the missing parts to CB's narrative. CB supposedly gave a statement the first day and any deviation from that without LE being aware would of made him suspect number one very quickly.
I think the most likely scenario here is that somebody familiar with the Bobo family and specifically the area around their home is the abductor. Being in such a remote area, the odds heavily favor it as well as the way this case has played out.
LE at it's core is a business and plenty of time and resources have been used in this case, I don't believe LE had 10+ investigators on this case at one time to speculate about it while eating doughnuts.
Let's also not forget the subsequent drug busts during the search for HB. Another overlooked aspect of this case is the TBI investigation into the local drug task force (covers Decatur County, also look who requested the Governor offer a reward). I HAVE NO IDEA if it is connected to HB case or not, but I do know one thing-
Drugs investigations equal making money and missing young women investigations equal spending money. I think it's safe to assume politics play a role in this case and
it's impossible to read into others priorities, except to say the TBI is still investigating this case.

Can you explain the part I bolded, please?? Making money for WHOM?

Carla Lashelle
05-12-2012, 09:17 AM
Pardon me, but since when does LE use a civilian as a "plant" in a drug sting? They do not usually send a civilian, particularly a young woman, into a drug operation because that would be dangerous. Drug dealers carry guns. I've never heard of anything like this. Informants, yes... but not a plant. That's a job for an undercover cop.

Happened here in Florida and the girl was shot and killed before the cops could close in.

http://www.baynews9.com/content/news/baynews9/news/article.html/content/news/articles/bn9/2012/3/30/settlement_reached_i.html

Frogzilla
05-12-2012, 12:39 PM
Can you explain the part I bolded, please?? Making money for WHOM?
Asset forfeiture - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
http://www.tn.gov/safety/thp/forfeitFAQ.shtml
http://www.stategazette.com/story/1727735.html
http://www.mediaite.com/tv/report-tennessee-anti-drug-task-force-gets-to-keep-portion-of-confiscated-drug-money/
http://www.newschannel5.com/story/14643085/police-profiting-off-drug-trade
http://timesfreepress.com/news/2011/aug/17/theft-drug-use-24th-judicial-task-force-report-say/?breakingnews
http://media.wbbjtv.com/documents/24DASpecialReport.pdf

Limaes
05-12-2012, 09:25 PM
Respectfully snipped

Good Post. Especially the part I bolded above, as I think at the very beginning when LE got there, that is exactly what they needed to do. Grab their guns and go in and get her, darn it. The whole...."wait on dogs, protect the investigation, keep people from trampling on tracks--this part from witness no less!!", is a bunch of crap because they got there literally minutes after it supposedly happened, so run in there and try to get her back, darn it.


But CB said he couldn't stop people from going in there plus KB said they rushed into the woods. I wonder how far they went?

When the dogs did arrive they never found HB's scent around the entrance to the woods. There doesn't seem to be any evidence that she ever went in there. jmo

nosyone
05-12-2012, 09:56 PM
I have been thinking a lot about CB's statement that he didn't think that they would be getting HB back for a while (paraphrasing) and in my opinion only, I think that he felt that way because who knew who has her and why.

Plumeria5
05-12-2012, 10:52 PM
I have been thinking a lot about CB's statement that he didn't think that they would be getting HB back for a while (paraphrasing) and in my opinion only, I think that he felt that way because who knew who has her and why.

I find Clint's statement a strange choice of words. It really bothers me.

How about, "I am afraid I will never see my sister again."
"I am going to do everything in my power to find my sister."

But right away he says he didn't think Holly would be coming home anytime soon. Sure sounds like he had a reason for saying that...but what?

TANEYTOWN76
05-12-2012, 11:49 PM
Why do u think the pictures were edited? Also what am I looking for?

Yoda
05-13-2012, 12:27 AM
I can't believe that reporter actually had to say "A Christmas without Holly" with a straight face.
So lame.

Here's the most crucial part of the video for me.
Pause on 1:11.
Do you see who they are still saying was Clint?
Why it's Drew in the pic with Holly and Rascal!
AGAIN!
Granted that someone tried to blend or change the appearance so that
in a brief glimpse you thought that might be Clint, but it isn't.

Matter of fact, it's hard to even find a pic of Clint in amongst the
mountain of photos of Holly on the Piano Shrine.

What is up with that?

Point being, the media has followed this case longer than I have, why did they attempt
to deceive viewers after 8 months continuously about the Drew/Clint photo images, or as I have dubbed these morphs, Clew!

From my iPad it was clear as a bell that that was Drew not Clint. But two other things immediately stood out to me. First, when mom says we'll never give up, we'll never give up looking for her. The first time she says never give up she shakes her head slightly back and forth, but when she reiterates they will never give up she shakes her head up and down, as in yes we will give up. The things she said in the interview did not flow, she said we instead of I, and she censored what she was saying a few times. She quit teaching because she searching full time but what she says does to search for holly is "things". Secondly, the piano shrine. Soooooo where were the photos of Holly at any other age of physical development?????? Wouldn't you have your favorite photos of your daughter mixed in? Ballet recitals, parties, favorite shots as a toddler or newborn? No other family photos? Holly and daddy riding a four wheeler or reading a book or special moments? Moo

Yoda
05-13-2012, 01:29 AM
I went through some of cranky's photos and a few things caught my I. I haven't gotten the hang of fotoforensics yet but i linked to the analysis of the photos in case someone else could understand how to figure out if they have been photoshopped. Tia and moo and I'm wondering if I am just looking for things that aren't there because there is nothing else to go on.:/

This photo I think Holly's hair was lengthened. On the right she has one piece that does a curve that if straightened out would be too long and she has a piece in her left sleeve again that does not match the length of the rest of the hair.
http://fotoforensics.com/analysis.php?id=57d794ed1277ab1dddf84cdb3767bc3e6b f4df5e.39903

This photo that can't be his hand?! His arm would be so short.
http://fotoforensics.com/analysis.php?id=a6abd93a322029c1b3aa9805717db56d79 f607a8.52245

Look at the wall to the right of Karen's head. It is pink/peach where it should be white. And is the red Christmas vest photoshopped?
http://fotoforensics.com/analysis.php?id=98b87e1908519e773f71f0c782fdc476c2 503721.27977

SUNchips
05-13-2012, 05:46 AM
MOO I still see nothing wrong with really any of the pictures that others seem to have a problem with. And I am actually very experienced in Photoshopping. Why would it matter that little things like wall color ect. is changed? Does this mean you think Holly isn't really a part of the Bobo family? That she doesn't exist at all? What would be the point in changing all these pictures and who would do such a thing?

I must admit, that one thing I do agree with that Yoda just brought up, is regarding younger pictures of Holly. Why no baby pics? Not one picture of her as a child anywhere? I haven't seen one at least, and it is pretty weird to me actually. IMO.

Carla Lashelle
05-13-2012, 08:09 AM
IMHO the Foto Forensics stuff is hogwash. its like people seeing Jesus'face in a bowl of spaghetti or some such. You can analize photos but its not done like this either.

Trident
05-13-2012, 08:32 AM
Happened here in Florida and the girl was shot and killed before the cops could close in.

http://www.baynews9.com/content/news/baynews9/news/article.html/content/news/articles/bn9/2012/3/30/settlement_reached_i.html

Matter of fact, I have a close relative who was used MANY times in drug stings. Said relative came close to meeting his/her maker a few times.

houndstooth
05-13-2012, 09:02 AM
I went through some of cranky's photos and a few things caught my I. I haven't gotten the hang of fotoforensics yet but i linked to the analysis of the photos in case someone else could understand how to figure out if they have been photoshopped. Tia and moo and I'm wondering if I am just looking for things that aren't there because there is nothing else to go on.:/

This photo I think Holly's hair was lengthened. On the right she has one piece that does a curve that if straightened out would be too long and she has a piece in her left sleeve again that does not match the length of the rest of the hair.
http://fotoforensics.com/analysis.php?id=57d794ed1277ab1dddf84cdb3767bc3e6b f4df5e.39903

This photo that can't be his hand?! His arm would be so short.
http://fotoforensics.com/analysis.php?id=a6abd93a322029c1b3aa9805717db56d79 f607a8.52245

Look at the wall to the right of Karen's head. It is pink/peach where it should be white. And is the red Christmas vest photoshopped?
http://fotoforensics.com/analysis.php?id=98b87e1908519e773f71f0c782fdc476c2 503721.27977

Thank you Yoda for looking.
I know there are a lot of programs, but I don't use them.
I use my eyes. I look for odd angles of limbs, length of limbs, disembodied hands to "tie in" persons added to a picture.

On the first page of Cranky's the red background pic and the green one that were so often used by the media are both OBVIOUSLY photo edited using photoshop.

I discussed this on another site also. A person who thought many photos looked strange, but couldn't put his finger on it asked his ps3 savvy daughter to look over the pics at Cranky's. When he asked which ones were photoshopped she said ALL of the ones he showed her.

But, as to why this would be, I don't have an answer. I just think it's definitely worth discussing.

I also find the lack of baby pics or adolescent pics, family pics rather unusual also.

Now for something really strange. You remember on the recent video reenactment Karen did for the news?
In it she is watching a video of "Holly" moonwalking?

Well I looked up the name of the show as per the sign on the stage.
I couldn't find it for the November 2008 year but was the name of the
show they were doing that Spring 2012 at Scots Hill High School.
I'll have to take a look at the video again to get the correct name in case anyone else wants to look for it.

telemag
05-13-2012, 09:10 AM
Pardon me, but since when does LE use a civilian as a "plant" in a drug sting? They do not usually send a civilian, particularly a young woman, into a drug operation because that would be dangerous. Drug dealers carry guns. I've never heard of anything like this. Informants, yes... but not a plant. That's a job for an undercover cop.

It's happened before. I recall a girl being used a part of a deal to drop charges against her and things went wrong and she was killed before police could get to her. I'm sure it's rare though. Only time I have ever heard it that happening.

houndstooth
05-13-2012, 09:17 AM
MOO I still see nothing wrong with really any of the pictures that others seem to have a problem with. And I am actually very experienced in Photoshopping. Why would it matter that little things like wall color ect. is changed? Does this mean you think Holly isn't really a part of the Bobo family? That she doesn't exist at all? What would be the point in changing all these pictures and who would do such a thing?

I must admit, that one thing I do agree with that Yoda just brought up, is regarding younger pictures of Holly. Why no baby pics? Not one picture of her as a child anywhere? I haven't seen one at least, and it is pretty weird to me actually. IMO.

There are so many obvious anomalies that I am surprised someone experienced hasn't noticed them!

I watched a news video featuring Whitney Duncan and she has her arm around "Holly". Except this is obviously Holly's head shopped on top of a frumpily dressed woman in bermuda shorts and pointed hush puppy dress shoe flats! The woman is a bit chunkier than I would imagine Holly to be.

Now why was this done? I would guess that Whitney didn't have any photos of her and Holly together in recent years.


There are all sorts of picture anomalies just like that with arms that would be extraordinarily long in order to tie her to the person in the pic.

Like I said, I don't have the answers, but I can sure supply the questions.

~n/t~
05-13-2012, 09:27 AM
I went through some of cranky's photos and a few things caught my I. I haven't gotten the hang of fotoforensics yet but i linked to the analysis of the photos in case someone else could understand how to figure out if they have been photoshopped. Tia and moo and I'm wondering if I am just looking for things that aren't there because there is nothing else to go on.:/

This photo I think Holly's hair was lengthened. On the right she has one piece that does a curve that if straightened out would be too long and she has a piece in her left sleeve again that does not match the length of the rest of the hair.
http://fotoforensics.com/analysis.php?id=57d794ed1277ab1dddf84cdb3767bc3e6b f4df5e.39903

This photo that can't be his hand?! His arm would be so short.
http://fotoforensics.com/analysis.php?id=a6abd93a322029c1b3aa9805717db56d79 f607a8.52245

Look at the wall to the right of Karen's head. It is pink/peach where it should be white. And is the red Christmas vest photoshopped?
http://fotoforensics.com/analysis.php?id=98b87e1908519e773f71f0c782fdc476c2 503721.27977

She has the same length hair in all the photos I've seen

<modsnip>

I don't see anything suspicious in the photos to be honest. The one with Drew with his arm around her does look like his arm is shorter but I think it's just the way the photo was taken.

The Christmas photo? Why do you think the wall should be white? Some people have 2 colors in the same area. The lamp could also cause a change in the color. I have flood lights in my kitchen. The walls are white but when I turn on the lights....the walls look peachy.

I agree with the Drew/Clint mix up by the reporters early on in the case.

TANEYTOWN76
05-13-2012, 03:28 PM
Why in the world would they photo shop pictures?

wfgodot
05-13-2012, 03:42 PM
I hate to be a grumpus, but just where is this "analysis" of photos taking us?

It might make for a very good thread if the Bobo case were given its own forum or sub-forum, there serving as a branch of the case - a very esoteric branch, but a branch nevertheless - surrounded with other case-specific, more concrete, threads (anything from What Did Clint See? to Was the Lunch Container Planted? to What Was Up with the Tony Calabrese Warrant? etc.).

But, as it stands, it sort of serves only to help us wander down a perhaps unproductive path in terms of a general discussion thread, as here.

Carla Lashelle
05-13-2012, 08:07 PM
Its not even real analysis. In the three photos linked there is NOTHING WRONG with them IMHO. Hair looks fine. Arm is fine its called PERSPECTIVE...

OldSteve
05-13-2012, 08:47 PM
I hate to be a grumpus, but just where is this "analysis" of photos taking us?

It might make for a very good thread if the Bobo case were given its own forum or sub-forum, there serving as a branch of the case - a very esoteric branch, but a branch nevertheless - surrounded with other case-specific, more concrete, threads (anything from What Did Clint See? to Was the Lunch Container Planted? to What Was Up with the Tony Calabrese Warrant? etc.).

But, as it stands, it sort of serves only to help us wander down a perhaps unproductive path in terms of a general discussion thread, as here.

Well said! Just shows the frustration that sets in when there is nothing but nothing new in a case, sadly.

wfgodot
05-13-2012, 08:55 PM
Oh, almost forgot my "Holly sighting." As I was leaving Family Dollar a young blonde woman and a friend (maybe two) were coming in - young blonde close enough to a dead ringer for HB that I did stop and look twice. Features were quite similar, but face was thinner and the features thus somewhat sharper; height and weight about right. (This entire incident, including the thought, "Now what in the hell would Holly Bobo be doing in a dollar store in Miami, Oklahoma?" transpired in, oh, about ten seconds, I'd say.) And it was out the door and in the car and so to home. A bit eerie, though. Certainly hadn't been on the lookout for Holly at any point in the past year-plus. The resemblance was beyond "could pass as sisters," but not exact enough to cause any sort of "Eureka! I have found her!" moment. Close, but not quite.

cluciano63
05-13-2012, 10:28 PM
I'm not sure there are any truly productive conversations to have about this case, at this point, not without more information. JMO
It is by no means a "hot case."

Mr. Noatak
05-14-2012, 04:53 AM
I'm not sure there are any truly productive conversations to have about this case, at this point, not without more information. JMO
It is by no means a "hot case."

My opinions only, no facts here:

An overriding difficulty with resolving the Holly Bobo case is explaining the strategy of the unidentified suspect or suspects.

If you research other solved or partially-solved (e.g. Morgan Harrington) female abduction cases that involved a vehicle, you will see that the purse (=lunchbag) and cell phone are discarded at the crime scene or as soon as possible after the abduction (say 1 to 2 miles away), or are never found. If the abductor was careless or stupid and the victim’s cell phone stayed with them and had power, then… the suspect identification and arrest came quicker (I am aware of the contra-indications of the Michelle Parker case, but this case is also somewhat atypical with regards to recovered evidence). I have seen a separation of a mile between the cell phone and the purse of the victim in some cases (this suggests that the purse was examined for money or trophies or that the crime is not what it seems to be), but overall I expect all personal belongings to be found closer together. As an example, I cite the Morgan Harrington case. In spite of all the after-the-fact “sightings” of her on some strange walkabout down the roadway, her purse and cell phone were found together in the parking lot outside the music concert and presumably this is exactly where she was grabbed. Her personal belongings were dumped on the spot.

Holly Bobo was not abducted for her money or jewelry. The timing of the lunch bag find suggests that this could have been discarded not long after Holly’s disappearance. Holly’s cell phone is more problematic. It was found so much later, that unless it was very well hidden in the weeds, it could have been placed there days later. Using my logic cited above, Holly’s phone would have been deactivated not very long after her disappearance, but not necessarily dumped immediately. Whether Holly’s purse or pocketbook with her ID/credit cards was recovered is of great importance. Maybe the investigators could hold a press conference and tell us only what THEY DID NOT FIND and WHAT THEY DO NOT KNOW. I mean, would this simple request truly endanger the investigation?

When females disappear of their own choice, they commonly leave ALL of their personal items at a provocative location, such as their house, in their car, in front of a cafe, etc. Or, they take all of their belongings with them.

And then there are theories that Holly’s abductor was someone from out of town who was vending for a local event or just some opportunistic stranger passing through: this does not fit because the responsible person KNEW Holly’s schedule down to the scale of minutes, AND was intimate with the relative safety of the situation. Seriously, if you were from out of town, would you follow Holly home onto a rural property in Tennessee, wait all night next to her house, and in the morning spend 5 to 10 minutes at the kidnap site discussing politics and weather with your victim? (check my previously-posted timeline on Websleuths for the possibility of this 5 to 10 minute safety period for the perpetrator)

I am now studying the Bible Hill area, because it is approximately mid-way between the abduction site and the lunch bag find. The precise location of the lunch bag could be meaningful and significant, totally serendipitous, OR it could have been deliberately planted in that specific location in a crude attempt to deflect suspicion towards someone else that lives nearby.

In summary, the official details of the case and the placement of the evidence has a personal, local, insular, and naive feel to it. It seems to me that the perpetrator was someone from the immediate area who knew Holly through previous and/or present associations AND knew her daily schedule. I also have a hunch that this person has since talked or hinted about the crime, and now it is up to those he communicated with, whether or not they want to take the legal risk of going down with him or coming clean. In my judgment, the case remains solvable.

OldSteve
05-14-2012, 12:47 PM
Mr. Noatak, much of what you say applies to the Sierra Lamar case...

SPOTLIGHT CASE CA - Sierra Lamar, 15, Santa Clara County, 16 March 2012 - #15 - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community

ETA:
"In my judgment, the case remains solvable" - I agree, and would think in time someone who knows something will spill-the-beans; friend of a friend, someone in jail looking... oh, that reward of 250K might help too...

ETA ETA: I was looking for a link to the reward notice itself... is it just for her safe return? I would think it would be better if it was for info leading to the arrest of a perp...

Carla Lashelle
05-14-2012, 03:51 PM
The problem is that many of us have looked at the same, scant, contradictory, and paltry "evidence" for over a year. When it comes to looking at facebook photos and claiming imaginary photo-shopping conspiracies thats a sign that things are at a DEAD END. Pretty much anything constructive has been thought of and discussed 1000 times over in the last year.

Chili Fries
05-14-2012, 04:55 PM
One thing about Holly's case that has stuck with me is that it's been reported that her cellphone was found as a result of a phone tip. At the time it was just called a "significant item" (http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504083_162-20056986-504083.html) officially but there were reports that it was the cellphone and the AMW feature seemed to confirm that.

Mr Noatak brought up the Morgan Harrington case, and in Morgan's case her t-shirt was found in an odd place 3 weeks after she went missing:

http://www.readthehook.com/67960/pantera-find-shirt-15th-street-was-morgan-harringtons

Since the t-shirt was found on a bush right next to where students regularly walk, there has been a lot of speculation that it was put there deliberately and well after her disappearance.

Holly's phone was found 12 days after her disappearance, reportedly after a phone tip and reports have also said it was found on an industrial property (although we don't know how far off the road). I don't think it's a stretch to wonder if Holly's phone was used as some kind of message or diversion like Morgan's t-shirt may have been.

MizStery
05-14-2012, 06:40 PM
<snipped>
Holly Bobo was not abducted for her money or jewelry. The timing of the lunch bag find suggests that this could have been discarded not long after Holly’s disappearance. Holly’s cell phone is more problematic. It was found so much later, that unless it was very well hidden in the weeds, it could have been placed there days later. Using my logic cited above, Holly’s phone would have been deactivated not very long after her disappearance, but not necessarily dumped immediately. Whether Holly’s purse or pocketbook with her ID/credit cards was recovered is of great importance. Maybe the investigators could hold a press conference and tell us only what THEY DID NOT FIND and WHAT THEY DO NOT KNOW. I mean, would this simple request truly endanger the investigation?

.

Sheriff Wyatt - Significant Find

Missing Holly Bobo Update: Cell Phone Found Roadside
By Robin Stanfill
Published Apr 25, 2011

The new evidence found during the search for Holly Bobo was her cell phone, found roadside on Hwy. 69.

Although law enforcement are not revealing any information concerning the "significant" item found during Sunday's search, a member of the search teams has revealed the item was believed to be Holly's cell phone.

Reportedly, the cell phone was located on side of the road on Hwy. 69 in Parsons, near Holly's father's place of employment, as well as Kolpack, a nearby factory, and the Tennessee Technology Center, where Holly was attending school.

Decatur County Sheriff Roy Wyatt has related that law enforcement received a tip Sunday, April 24, 2011, which lead the investigation and search for Holly Bobo into Northern Decatur County. The Sheriff stated that a tip was received by phone, prompting a search of the area, during the late evening hours of Easter Sunday. In the course of the search, a new item was discovered, which law enforcement considered "significant", and apparently substantial enough for the Decatur County rescue squad and volunteer firefighters to be dispatched in order to perform a specialized foot search of the area. Law enforcement are not revealing any further information about the lead or the item found, at this time.

<snipped>
The phone tip is a no brainer.....LE that received the tip should just have used caller ID to identify who was phoning in the tip. Unless the phone tip was from someone well known to the investigation. It seems like every time I read a report .......there are more questions raised than answers. Maybe this why Easter was the end of any additional information being released by LE. Websleuths poster Shafer (a few posts back on the thread) pointed out Easter was the end of LE updates(well there were a few more.....but I believe they were all later identified has not accurate and information released had never taken place. MOO

Mr. Noatak
05-15-2012, 03:05 AM
My opinions only, no facts here:

Concerning the Holly Bobo case, there is something else….

Many episodes of the ID Discovery show “Fatal Encounters” reveal a common type of criminal case that I cynically refer to as ‘manifest destiny’. Let me explain. There are some people who through a series of uncharacteristic decisions, end up as innocent victims. It almost seems that they had a date with destiny and nothing could prevent the terrible outcome. There is an old parable involving a man in the desert fleeing death, but I will not bore you with it. Anyway, the concept is ancient. Events may or may not be random, but events can collectively conspire against you.

Permit me to give you a made-up story that does not involve a crime, to explain my point about “manifest destiny”:

1) There is a young man who works at a lumber mill in the woods.
2) He stays up late one night and drinks more alcohol than usual. His best friend and co-worker, Jack is with him and drinks even more.
3) The next morning the young man has a hangover, wakes up late and barely makes it to work on time.
4) In his rush to get to work on time, he forgets his hardhat.
5) When he shows up, the boss tells him to get a hardhat from the trailer, but he finds that the trailer door is locked.
6) So, he goes to work without his hardhat.
7) His daily job is peeling poles in the mill, but when he gets into the mill the section boss rings his phone.
8) The section boss tells him that Jack did not show up for work and asks him to climb up the hill to help with felling a few trees until Jack shows up.
9) The young man is walking up the hill, and is struck by a falling tree on his bare unprotected head and is killed.

What is actually happening here is that with each “act of the play” the future victim is knowingly or unknowingly placing themselves in gradually increasing danger. At some point, they are dead. The optimist would say, “well he should not have drank so much” or “he should not have let his best friend get so bombed” or “he should have told his boss that the trailer was locked” or “he should not have climbed the hill without his hardhat”. But the cynic says “the die was cast in advance”.

In contrast with this imaginary storyline, the die was NOT cast in advance in the Holly Bobo case. She did nothing that I am aware of that was uncharacteristic, leading up to the time of her abduction. She was NOT engaging in progressively risky behavior or exposing herself to progressively increasing danger. There is no evidence of so-called ‘manifest destiny’. To me this means that the crime was either one of unpredictable passion AND/OR was conspired on a fairly short timetable.

Sleuth On!

Hatfield
05-15-2012, 10:04 AM
My opinions only, no facts here:

Concerning the Holly Bobo case, there is something else….

Many episodes of the ID Discovery show “Fatal Encounters” reveal a common type of criminal case that I cynically refer to as ‘manifest destiny’. Let me explain. There are some people who through a series of uncharacteristic decisions, end up as innocent victims. It almost seems that they had a date with destiny and nothing could prevent the terrible outcome. There is an old parable involving a man in the desert fleeing death, but I will not bore you with it. Anyway, the concept is ancient. Events may or may not be random, but events can collectively conspire against you.

Permit me to give you a made-up story that does not involve a crime, to explain my point about “manifest destiny”:

1) There is a young man who works at a lumber mill in the woods.
2) He stays up late one night and drinks more alcohol than usual. His best friend and co-worker, Jack is with him and drinks even more.
3) The next morning the young man has a hangover, wakes up late and barely makes it to work on time.
4) In his rush to get to work on time, he forgets his hardhat.
5) When he shows up, the boss tells him to get a hardhat from the trailer, but he finds that the trailer door is locked.
6) So, he goes to work without his hardhat.
7) His daily job is peeling poles in the mill, but when he gets into the mill the section boss rings his phone.
8) The section boss tells him that Jack did not show up for work and asks him to climb up the hill to help with felling a few trees until Jack shows up.
9) The young man is walking up the hill, and is struck by a falling tree on his bare unprotected head and is killed.

What is actually happening here is that with each “act of the play” the future victim is knowingly or unknowingly placing themselves in gradually increasing danger. At some point, they are dead. The optimist would say, “well he should not have drank so much” or “he should not have let his best friend get so bombed” or “he should have told his boss that the trailer was locked” or “he should not have climbed the hill without his hardhat”. But the cynic says “the die was cast in advance”.

In contrast with this imaginary storyline, the die was NOT cast in advance in the Holly Bobo case. She did nothing that I am aware of that was uncharacteristic, leading up to the time of her abduction. She was NOT engaging in progressively risky behavior or exposing herself to progressively increasing danger. There is no evidence of so-called ‘manifest destiny’. To me this means that the crime was either one of unpredictable passion AND/OR was conspired on a fairly short timetable.

Sleuth On!

All JMO.
The very last sentence could possibly be true, and if so, the "AND" would be my vote, and I would even expand this a little further as shown belowi.

In a previous post, you also mentioned this:

"In summary, the official details of the case and the placement of the evidence has a personal, local, insular, and naive feel to it. It seems to me that the perpetrator was someone from the immediate area who knew Holly through previous and/or present associations AND knew her daily schedule.""

I definitely agree with this and especially that the case had a "naive" feel to it. If we expand upon this thought, lets suppose the perp was someone close to her that decided to talk with her before her class that day, and lets suppose a serious argument / fight occurred which caused her to fall and maybe hit her head or something. The person could have walked her back to their vehicle and maybe was even going to take her to the hospital or something. Then, lets suppose she suddenly passes away in the vehicle or on the way to the vehicle. Panic would surely set in, and the person maybe was not thinking rationally, so rather than just calling for help, maybe they panicked and left her somewhere, because they felt they caused her fall.

Now, if something like this happened, that person would surely see the news about how everyone thought a random kidnapper took her, so maybe they used that news to come up with the idea to plant some of her things to help that theory along. Then, as time went on, this person could not believe how the story grew and took on a life of its own about a kidnapper. So they were at the point of no return, and maybe they realized there was still her phone in his vehicle, so they dumped the phone on that last Easter day and made a phone call tip to be sure they found the phone. That last tip about the phone had a very "naive" feel to it, almost amaturish feel to it.

This is just one of the possiblities that could have happened that day, and when someone panics, they can do strange things. I keep wondering that maybe the news media about a "kidnapper" began to drive itself and the person who really knew what happened maybe was using the news stories, and maybe they planted the evidence to help it along.

Anyway, I totally agree that this case has a very "naive" feel to it, which is why I think this could be a possiblity. I totally realize there are many other possiblities, and that is what makes this case so hard. There is no one theory that we can pin down yet.

All JMO of course.

nosyone
05-15-2012, 10:26 AM
In the very beginning of this case, I had a "gut feeling" about what happened, and since then, I have read everything, watched every video clip, and read all the boards I could find, to find a theory different from my original thought. Every scenario imaginable has run through my head, from human trafficking to fatal attraction, but I still always come back to the old "gut feeling" of it being close to home. Just my opinion only!

Hatfield
05-15-2012, 10:43 AM
SNIPPED.....The phone tip is a no brainer.....LE that received the tip should just have used caller ID to identify who was phoning in the tip.

This is a very good point. Surely, LE could have pulled all phone records from literally everyone in the town for that 1-2 minute time period to identify who called in the tip. So, LE should have been able to identify who called in the tip. The only way that they could not identify them, was if the person was using one of those throw-away phones, which is possible, but unlikely IMO.

I am kind of thinking that LE knows who called in the tip, and maybe that is why all searches stopped at that point. It is possible that LE and maybe even the family knows who called in the tip, and maybe this goes back to having some kind of personal "bond" or "empathy" with the person.

OldSteve
05-15-2012, 11:43 AM
In the very beginning of this case, I had a "gut feeling" about what happened, and since then, I have read everything, watched every video clip, and read all the boards I could find, to find a theory different from my original thought. Every scenario imaginable has run through my head, from human trafficking to fatal attraction, but I still always come back to the old "gut feeling" of it being close to home. Just my opinion only!

That's my feeling too (perp being close to home).... I also think LE has an idea of who the perp might be, but that person has a very good alibi, thanks to family or friends, an so LE has to wait...

shefner
05-19-2012, 05:19 PM
I think the perp was a local young man that Holly knew. I think she was startled to find him there when she went out to her car. Perhaps, in the surprise of the moment, she was injured and the perp became frightened and took her.

I do believe the case is solvable....but not by us, with what little we actually know. I still would like to hear all three 911 calls. Those would help tremendously.

R.U.Kidding!
05-20-2012, 03:29 PM
I have noticed the conversation has revolved around Holly's abduction being "naive" of sorts, a plan hatched at the last minute due to unforeseen circumstances--perhaps by someone she knew or was acquainted with.

My question would be, it would seem this kind of last minute act of desperation would lead to a very "sloppy" and amateurish cover-up, why has she not been found? Furthermore if it was someone in her circle of familiars ,would that not be reason to think it would have been solved by now, because this person would have been on the radar from the beginning, right?

wfgodot
05-20-2012, 03:45 PM
I don't think it was a crime of opportunity; I think it was planned - at least roughed out beforehand.

I guess much hinges on our old familiar discussion re: whether Clint was supposed to be home or not.

R.U.Kidding!
05-20-2012, 03:57 PM
Actually, I am almost afraid to post this thought....so Websleuthers, don't go all squirrelly on me--just sayin

The similarities in these cases almost make me think it could be the same guy.

Holly Bobo and Sierra LaMar anyway--
We have actually had 3 Early Morning going to school or work abductions, there was also Jennifer Kesse.

Who knows maybe even Morgan Harrington or do all the abductors know to throw out the cell phones,purses,and personal belongings of their victims.

I am just thinking out loud, but is it that "out there"--I mean these young women are not being found, so I think this guy has had a very methodical way of stalking and disposing of victims, and is so far removed from his victims, there is no common thread.:moo:

MizStery
05-20-2012, 04:31 PM
Actually, I am almost afraid to post this thought....so Websleuthers, don't go all squirrelly on me--just sayin

The similarities in these cases almost make me think it could be the same guy.

Holly Bobo and Sierra LaMar anyway--
We have actually had 3 Early Morning going to school or work abductions, there was also Jennifer Kesse.

Who knows maybe even Morgan Harrington or do all the abductors know to throw out the cell
phones,purses,and personal belongings of their victims.

I am just thinking out loud, but is it that "out there"--I mean these young
women are not being found, so I think this guy has had a very methodical way of stalking and
disposing of victims, and is so far removed from his victims, there is no common thread.:moo:

If they are related than "Holly's" is unique because there was an eye witness? So,are you saying.... it
might be a serial abductor...this makes it even more urgent to find Holly's abductor before he strikes
again ?





I am not trying to put words in your mouth but I just was trying to connect the dots.:smile:

R.U.Kidding!
05-20-2012, 05:37 PM
If they are related than "Holly's" is unique because there was an eye witness? So are you saying.... it might be a serial abductor...this makes it even more urgent to find Holly's abductor before he strikes again ?

LOL!! I am really not sure what I am thinking. It is hard for me to comprehend the similarities in these cases, and the fact there has been no sign of the victims , like they just disappeared. That there was a witness in Holly's case makes it even stranger that they literally found NO trace of her within minutes of the last sighting--How does that happen, no footprints, no tire tracks, no vehicle, no evidence of them in the woods--just POOFF!!!

.....and yes he will strike again, maybe had he been found in one of the earlier abductions, maybe if they had been able to find "sketch" from the Morgan Harrington case, The rest of these missing young women would have been safe. At least in the Morgan Harrington case they found her body and even with that I feel the VSP really messed that case up.

All I know is it would be the best news possible if when they caught this guy they could tie all of these abductions together. Think how many lives would be saved by removing this ONE monster. Who am I kidding, life just doesn't work out that way:banghead:

OldSteve
05-20-2012, 06:49 PM
Actually, I am almost afraid to post this thought....so Websleuthers, don't go all squirrelly on me--just sayin

The similarities in these cases almost make me think it could be the same guy.

Holly Bobo and Sierra LaMar anyway--
We have actually had 3 Early Morning going to school or work abductions, there was also Jennifer Kesse.

Who knows maybe even Morgan Harrington or do all the abductors know to throw out the cell phones,purses,and personal belongings of their victims.

I am just thinking out loud, but is it that "out there"--I mean these young women are not being found, so I think this guy has had a very methodical way of stalking and disposing of victims, and is so far removed from his victims, there is no common thread.:moo:

It is interesting - in both cases cell phones are found, and Holly's lunch box is a similar find to SL's Juicy Couture bag... and both going to school and taken at almost the same time in the morning...
Both in out-of-the-way places, and right outside their homes...
A variation, could SL be a copy cat abduction?

TxLady2
05-21-2012, 04:23 PM
There have been so many missing teens and young women who have gone missing in this country over the years, and never found. Literally hundreds. There is no way it could be the same guy, he'd have to be 150 years old by now. The reality is, that there are way too many perps going around abducting young women or children, and way too many who get away with it for a long, long time.

As for throwing out the cell phone, what person wouldn't know to do that? Even teens seem to know that cell phones can be traced.

Most people don't realize how difficult it is to find a missing person. There are so many places they can be hidden away, so where do you look? The best chance of finding her is to try to figure out who did it. They may have narrowed down the list of suspects by now and are just waiting on more proof... or they may have no suspects whatsoever. She may end up on that long list of missing that are never found.

I'm sure there are parents out there who have died never knowing what happened to their child, sad as that is to say.

wfgodot
05-21-2012, 04:28 PM
Yes, the only thing that makes this even slightly unique in the continuing annals of young women who go missing in America is that the Bobo case began with another person observing the person in the act of disappearing at the hands of an unknown other. (Unless that story's all wrong [instead of just being hopelessly muddled] of course.)

R.U.Kidding!
05-21-2012, 06:03 PM
There have been so many missing teens and young women who have gone missing in this country over the years, and never found. Literally hundreds. There is no way it could be the same guy, he'd have to be 150 years old by now. The reality is, that there are way too many perps going around abducting young women or children, and way too many who get away with it for a long, long time.

As for throwing out the cell phone, what person wouldn't know to do that? Even teens seem to know that cell phones can be traced.

Most people don't realize how difficult it is to find a missing person. There are so many places they can be hidden away, so where do you look? The best chance of finding her is to try to figure out who did it. They may have narrowed down the list of suspects by now and are just waiting on more proof... or they may have no suspects whatsoever. She may end up on that long list of missing that are never found.

I'm sure there are parents out there who have died never knowing what happened to their child, sad as that is to say.

Well DUH!
LOL!! Thanks TXLady, that's funny! ....but I don't think I am that dumb to think ALL missing young women have been taken be one Guy, your right he would have be REALLLLLY OLD.

I just meant some of the cases recently with similar set of circumstances.
Of course you are right in thinking they may already have a suspect and are closing in as we speak. My Post was a "what if" kinda post

Irish_Eyes
05-22-2012, 08:01 AM
It is interesting - in both cases cell phones are found, and Holly's lunch box is a similar find to SL's Juicy Couture bag... and both going to school and taken at almost the same time in the morning...
Both in out-of-the-way places, and right outside their homes...
A variation, could SL be a copy cat abduction?



I think it's less of a copycat thing then a thing where similar creatures behave in similar fashions. The similarities may mean that these abductors are more similar to each other than either is to other abductors.

OldSteve, you were the first person who laid out the eerie similarities in these two cases in a cogent way that made sense to me. Perhaps this is a good time to build on your observations.

We are saying these two abductors may be similar because certain elements of their crimes were similar, and in some ways, their victims were also similar.

Noted similarities and differences:

- Holly was 20 and Sierra was 15. Holly's offender may be older than Sierra's offender, or may simply have a preference for women, and not girls.

- Both women were uniquely pretty. Further, both girls derived some confidence/fulfillment from unique gifts and talents. Holly was known in her area for her singing, and was related to an up and coming country singer. Sierra was actively involved in cheer squads. This set of facts leads me to believe that these girls were specifically targeted and not random.

- Furthering the theory that the girls were specifically targeted is that both girls lived on streets with little traffic, and both crimes occurred in the driveway area. It is unlikely, but not impossible, that someone would have happened on this area accidentally. If the girls were specifically targeted, it would seem that they were also probably watched for an indefinite period of time. How else could the perpretrator know what time they were leaving the home, and if they would be alone? Again, it could have just been happenstance, but I find that unlikely.

- In both cases the girls items were discarded within hours (or less) of the crime occurring, along the roadway. There has been speculation about whether the items were discarded along the route of escape to avoid detection, by the victims for various reasons, or by the attackers in an attempt to taunt police.

As more information comes out in Sierra's case, I hope we can ask if it could have any useful application in Holly's case. We know now that Sierra's abductor was only 6 years her senior. Perhaps because of that, it may come out that he attempted some sort of verbal trickery or coercion first, evading suspicion if Sierra viewed him more as a peer. I think there is some evidence in Holly's case to suggest that her abductor was likely a young man, possibly 20's, as Clint thought from the back he resembled Holly's boyfriend. We also know that there was verbal contact, which became argumentative, prior to Holly's disappearance, presumably under threat of force.

I really hope we know WHEN Sierra's things ended up where they did, and WHY. That could be useful when brainstorming about Holly's case. I also want to know if Sierra's alleged abductor is employed, and if people who know him noticed any changes in him over the last two months.

Some people suspected Sierra's family too. I hope these developments give some pause to those people who have not been supportive of the Bobos.

Carla Lashelle
05-22-2012, 08:59 AM
If you look at a lot of crimes there are unintentional similarities that do not imply any connection.

Lots of people are abducted leaving or returning to their home

More women/girls are abducted by men

Abductions probably are more often than not planned rather than strictly random. Although I think even a random abduction implies planning in that you have to come up wtih the idea to snatch someone, find someone that fits the bill etc.

There is probably some sort of sexual/power/posession motive

AWOLNATION
05-22-2012, 09:51 AM
Would it be far out to think that with all the similarities in these cases that, in spite of finding a connection there be a perfectly reasonable link...the internet...think about it, we all know people from all over the world can talk to one another in a millisecond, we all know the evils that lurk on the web, from hacking, illegal pirating, groups in which pedophiles and such communicate and can go undetected. Now you have Facebook, you have millions of people at your fingertips, now suppose there's groups out there who have their own "forums" where they cab discuss the girls the see on Facebook...they could trade info from one end of the country to the other...they could be giving each other tips on how to do it, when to do it, ways in which to dispose of the bodies. Because its more than a coincidence that with all these cases take place and all details are similar. Without law enforcement knowing where to start as far as looking into these groups, it would be easy for the abductors to switch it up and find a new place on the web to plot. Facebook as of lately seems to be a common thread that these girls all share, and it wouldnt be hard for someone to create a sock puppet account and get live details about the whereabouts of these girls and then strike. The key to catching the bad guys would to catch one and do everything possible to dig deeper than deep into any online activity....if LE could gain that knowledge than other cases could follow suit and be solved.

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Carla Lashelle
05-22-2012, 07:19 PM
The thing is that aside from general similarities in some cases (being female and perhaps blonde) their lives, life styles, etc. seem so different that I doubt there is some common thread. Its not like X number of missing girls from the same town that went to the same school... You have older married women going through a divorce (Shelly Mook) a party girl (Lauren Spirer) wandering around downtown in the middle of the night barefoot... etc.

OldSteve
05-22-2012, 08:13 PM
Now that we sadly know the sad fate of Sierra, and a perp has been arrested, there may somethings to be learned and applied to Holly's case:

Sierra was taken by someone who saw an opportunity... fate placed him where he observed a vulnerable teen.

All of Sierra's social media activity did not play a part, nor did contact with anyone from her schools.

The perp was experienced, and this was his boldest attack.

He appears to have used a stun gun.

He is big and powerful.

He followed a rule of three - abduction at one location, discard things at another, and leave body at a third.

He lives locally.

Okay, feel free to add to this, or correct where wrong..

wfgodot
05-22-2012, 08:29 PM
Now that we sadly know the sad fate of Sierra, and a perp has been arrested, there may somethings to be learned and applied to Holly's case:

Sierra was taken by someone who saw an opportunity... fate placed him where he observed a vulnerable teen.

All of Sierra's social media activity did not play a part, nor did contact with anyone from her schools.

The perp was experienced, and this was his boldest attack.

He appears to have used a stun gun.

He is big and powerful.

He followed a rule of three - abduction at one location, discard things at another, and leave body at a third.

He lives locally.

Okay, feel free to add to this, or correct where wrong..
Great work here, Old Steve. This one's particularly chilling:
He followed a rule of three - abduction at one location, discard things at another, and leave body at a third.
A stun gun - maybe! Perhaps would account for Holly and perp in silhouette, kneeling, Clint said he saw.

Locally - I'd have to say, on balance, probably.

I don't see Holly as the prototypical "vulnerable teen" somehow. The risk factor at point of abduction was high. (Seems to have worked though.)

Clint's description was a shade lower than "big and powerful" - a bit stocky and maybe well put-together, though.

Not sure about experienced, but ballsy - my little theory has the abductor doing so at the command of another.

The "had an opportunity" seems to rest on whether Clint's being home was expected. (Again though, whatever - it worked.)

As TBI hasn't "gotten back to us" about social media's possible role, that's up in the air.

OldSteve
05-22-2012, 08:48 PM
Thanks wfgodot!
I see I need to correct my list...

Sierra was taken by someone who saw an opportunity... he didn't seek Sierra out, simply happened to see she walked to a get a school bus alone and waited alone for it in a remote area.

All of Sierra's social media activity did not play a part, nor did contact with anyone from her schools.

The perp was experienced, linked to attempted attacks in the past, may have succeeded (we don't yet) and this was his boldest attack.

He appears to have used a stun gun, but also knife another time.

He is powerful.

He followed a rule of three - abduction at one location, discard things at another, and leave body at a third.

He lives locally but not close by.

LE had their eyes on him from early on but never mentioned him - hoping he would lead them to her.

LE had his DNA and identified it, but never let on.
Okay, feel free to add to this, or correct where wrong..

Hatfield
05-22-2012, 11:20 PM
Thanks wfgodot!
I see I need to correct my list...

Sierra was taken by someone who saw an opportunity... he didn't seek Sierra out, simply happened to see she walked to a get a school bus alone and waited alone for it in a remote area.

All of Sierra's social media activity did not play a part, nor did contact with anyone from her schools.

The perp was experienced, linked to attempted attacks in the past, may have succeeded (we don't yet) and this was his boldest attack.

He appears to have used a stun gun, but also knife another time.

He is powerful.

He followed a rule of three - abduction at one location, discard things at another, and leave body at a third.

He lives locally but not close by.

LE had their eyes on him from early on but never mentioned him - hoping he would lead them to her.

LE had his DNA and identified it, but never let on.
Okay, feel free to add to this, or correct where wrong..


The one that I think really applies to Holly's case (and quite a few others) is definitely this one below:

"He followed a rule of three - abduction at one location, discard things at another, and leave body at a third. "

I can think of quite a few cases, like Morgan H case (t-shirt), etc. that also have this one.

So if this rule applies to Hollys case, then basically, that would mean Holly is probably not real close to where any of the evidence was found, nor near her home. This is pretty valuable information to go on, because it could rule out a lot of areas where they should not be focusing so much on.

I keep trying to go back to the very beginning and remember all the main pieces of information that were first released (before the changes). Like the original height + weight of the perp, the word dragging being used, the lack of interviews from anyone, etc. I am putting more weight on the original information.

I keep thinking if there was something that was originally released that may have been the accurate story as compared to what we heard later on, and if so, why was it changed later on. What would be the motive to change and alter stories? Was their someone that maybe they were trying to protect? Did they forgive someone for what may have happened because it may have been somewhat accidental or some argument got way out of hand? Or maybe they just got bad advice from LE? So many questions, and not many answers.

Let's assume that we find out someday exactly what happened. Then, what scenario would make all the confusion and twisted stories that followed make sense, if we assume the stories were changed on purpose?

~n/t~
05-23-2012, 10:28 AM
IMO, we'll find out in Sierra's case that the perp was indeed stalking her. He may have seen Sierra on his way to work or wherever a few times and noticed she was alone on her walks to the bus stop for school.

In Holly's case, if the perp had an obsession with Holly, would he be just as brazen to go to her house and grab her in the driveway/carport when, imo there could have been a less risky way of taking her? He would've had to have known mom and dad weren't home. He would've had to have known Clint shouldn't have been home.

Also, Holly's clothes haven't been found. Her lunchbag and cellphone were. Does that mean the perp took her somewhere else to do whatever he did to her and disposed of her with her clothes on or did they not find her clothes yet? She had flip flops.

AWOLNATION
05-23-2012, 10:33 AM
If the perp was stalking, it would give credence to the fact he was camouflaged...he may of spent many days in those woods watching every move, their patterns, and when he though it was safe he approached Holly

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~n/t~
05-23-2012, 10:40 AM
If the perp was stalking, it would give credence to the fact he was camouflaged...he may of spent many days in those woods watching every move, their patterns, and when he though it was safe he approached Holly

Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk 2

And casually walked with her into the woods in her flip flops?

Trident
05-23-2012, 10:50 AM
The Sierra case is very sad, but it also gives us more insight. However, I'm pursuing another course here, welcome or not.

A few observations, if I may:

1) Religion. I see more makeup and provocative clothing than many “religious” young ladies would be wearing. I could be wrong. Maybe “today’s” culture, which would be somewhat at odds with the good Christian religion, sees this as fine. I freely admit, I do not know, simply an observation.

2) What young man, Holly’s brother, calls his mother at work, to ask what’s up with the voices outside their home? Like, he couldn’t go out and look? He twenty some odd years old. Wazzup with that?

3) What mother, being called at work about voices/girl friend and boy friend, with a “turkey” in the middle, tells her son to get the gun? Wazzup with that?

4) What brother, seeing his sister moving on into the woods with her boy friend thinks it will be a “while” before we see her again?

5) What mother collects donatations from wherever and says they are for her daughter’s “vacation”?

6) What bunch of intelligent people sit here and wonder what is going on? US? I guess maybe.

Something STINKS to me.

IF, it were allowed, and I understand why it isn’t, I’ll betcha there would be a lot of good ideas on this case.

MY OPINION ONLY, JUST A FEW OBSERVATIONS, IF I MAY?

Let me add, there are many triads, but triads are good, one just has to find the right combo - I did leave a few out.

AWOLNATION
05-23-2012, 11:13 AM
And casually walked with her into the woods in her flip flops?

Stranger things have happened. Besides, were you there? Do you know how "casual" it was? Or is it second and third hand like all the info? And what's the diff between flip flops and sneakers when faced with a man and a weapon?

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Trident
05-23-2012, 11:25 AM
Stranger things have happened. Besides, were you there? Do you know how "casual" it was? Or is it second and third hand like all the info? And what's the diff between flip flops and sneakers when faced with a man and a weapon?

Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk 2

Who wears flip flops to school? I don't know, not being from Tennessee. Maybe this is standard dress? Maybe a dress-down day since there was a test?

~n/t~
05-23-2012, 11:29 AM
Stranger things have happened. Besides, were you there? Do you know how "casual" it was? Or is it second and third hand like all the info? And what's the diff between flip flops and sneakers when faced with a man and a weapon?

Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk 2

No need to get snarky Her brother said they walked side by side into the woods and he only thought she was in danger after the neighbour showed up and even then, he was still convinced it was Drew and the blood was turkey so yes, I would consider his account of the events as a casual stroll into the woods with her boyfriend to look at dead turkeys.

Yes, there is a huge difference between flip flops and sneakers when faced with a man with a weapon especially if there was a struggle of some sort considering blood was found in the carport.

But of course, this case is so bizarre in itself with the perp kneeling with Holly in the carport so who knows. Maybe he let her take her lunchbag and walked slowly with her so she wouldn't lose her flipflops.

wfgodot
05-23-2012, 11:36 AM
One would be more prone to wear flip-flops inside and not to school - did Holly first encounter the perp inside then and was subsequently taken without time allowed for tying her shoes on? If so, though, why'd she have all the other stuff - cell phone, lunch "wallet," etc.?

I feel I knew more about this case the first day I read about it than I do now - not in terms of details, but just having an idea as to what took place early on.

deca
05-23-2012, 11:56 AM
FWIW

Flip flops seem to be the footwear of choice for young college age women, no matter the weather. I overheard one 18 yo say they were "casual cute". Anyways, I imagine that Holly wanted to look cute walking from her car to class across campus and then would change into "appropriate" footwear for the nursing program if she had actual class that day (labs). If all they were doing was testing, maybe the footwear didn't matter.

So I think she was probably walking out to her car- not surprised in the house.

~n/t~
05-23-2012, 12:13 PM
One would be more prone to wear flip-flops inside and not to school - did Holly first encounter the perp inside then and was subsequently taken without time allowed for tying her shoes on? If so, though, why'd she have all the other stuff - cell phone, lunch "wallet," etc.?

I feel I knew more about this case the first day I read about it than I do now - not in terms of details, but just having an idea as to what took place early on.

Well if we believe the initial release by TBI it was a home invasion. :crosseyed:

wfgodot
05-23-2012, 12:14 PM
Well if we believe the initial release by TBI it was a home invasion. :crosseyed:
Yes, meant to throw that factoid in my post but became confused thinking about this whole thing and wound up in kitchen making a sandwich instead, lol.

MizStery
05-23-2012, 03:58 PM
Well if we believe the initial release by TBI it was a home invasion. :crosseyed:

If we are to believe the narration of the events of the morning Holly's abduction...she communicated to her friend that she was putting on her shoes.MOO

10-8-2010
Jackson Sun

Family and. Friends reconstruct events leading up to Holly's abduction
<snipped>
Right after Karen left, Holly spoke on the phone with Hannah Reece, her friend and fellow nursing
student. Reece was the last of Holly’s classmates to speak with her.“I knew Holly before I started the nursing program, but at the start of the year she was just a nursing classmate,” Reese said.“By April, she was like my best friend.”
The morning Holly disappeared, Reece and Holly texted back and forth about their test that morning.
Reece’s cell phone signal was weak.“So around 7 o’clock I called her on her cell phone from my
house phone,” she said. Holly told Reece she was going to eat breakfast and put her
shoes on and said goodbye.“All right, Weece,” Holly said, calling Reece by her nickname,
I’ll see you. Love you.

Now,this is consistent with what I would expect a nursing student would wear. There are all kinds of reasons that a nurse in training,would be expected to wear closed toe shoes. Foremost,is tripping in flip flops and futher injuring your patient. Health professional's
for hygienic reasons .....(i.e. working with bodily fluids,risk of spreading disease,infecting patients wounds,contamination of all kinds in a sterile setting)would make it suspect,a nursing
student,would be allowed to go to the classroom (in nursing school)for any reason in an open toed shoe. Isn't that why they're in nursing school to develop good habits for their eventual profession. MOO

wfgodot
05-23-2012, 04:14 PM
Where'd the "black flip-flops" info come from in the first place? Was that from Clint? The NCMEC description of what Holly was wearing when she disappeared still does not include mention of any sort of footwear whatsoever.

~n/t~
05-23-2012, 06:05 PM
Where'd the "black flip-flops" info come from in the first place? Was that from Clint? The NCMEC description of what Holly was wearing when she disappeared still does not include mention of any sort of footwear whatsoever.

No clue. I'm guessing Clint or Karen. Clint as the eye witness or Karen as the mom who may have noticed her black flip flops missing.

~n/t~
05-23-2012, 06:08 PM
If we are to believe the narration of the events of the morning Holly's abduction...she communicated to her friend that she was putting on her shoes.MOO

10-8-2010
Jackson Sun

Family and. Friends reconstruct events leading up to Holly's abduction
<snipped>
Right after Karen left, Holly spoke on the phone with Hannah Reece, her friend and fellow nursing
student. Reece was the last of Holly’s classmates to speak with her.“I knew Holly before I started the nursing program, but at the start of the year she was just a nursing classmate,” Reese said.“By April, she was like my best friend.”
The morning Holly disappeared, Reece and Holly texted back and forth about their test that morning.
Reece’s cell phone signal was weak.“So around 7 o’clock I called her on her cell phone from my
house phone,” she said. Holly told Reece she was going to eat breakfast and put her
shoes on and said goodbye.“All right, Weece,” Holly said, calling Reece by her nickname,
I’ll see you. Love you.

Now,this is consistent with what I would expect a nursing student would wear. There are all kinds of reasons that a nurse in training,would be expected to wear closed toe shoes. Foremost,is tripping in flip flops and futher injuring your patient. Health professional's
for hygienic reasons .....(i.e. working with bodily fluids,risk of spreading disease,infecting patients wounds,contamination of all kinds in a sterile setting)would make it suspect,a nursing
student,would be allowed to go to the classroom (in nursing school)for any reason in an open toed shoe. Isn't that why they're in nursing school to develop good habits for their eventual profession. MOO


Yes I agree but I already got poo poo'd over and over about the flip flops and how it's not unusal for kids to wear flip flops to school even in winter months.

What do I know. I live in cold country and have never seen kids wear flip flops in the snow but I was told some do.

AnonymousD
05-23-2012, 09:12 PM
Who wears flip flops to school? I don't know, not being from Tennessee. Maybe this is standard dress? Maybe a dress-down day since there was a test?

BBM

I wouldn't be afraid to say 1/2 the people I went to school with & 1/2 the kids at my daughter's school. (guys included)

Most of the kids at my daughter's school wear flip flops (Rainbows, mainly) until it gets around 55 degrees, then they switch up to whatever winter boots are "in" that year.

MizStery
05-23-2012, 09:56 PM
This is what I was meant to say, that nursing students have a dress code and footwear would be lace up shoes. I do not believe Holly was allowed to wear open toed shoes. Sure,if there were not rules in their nursing handbook(syllabus ) . I am sure many students ...nursing or other wise would wear flp flops. That is why her friend Reese said Holly was putting on her shoes (I think she wore lace up tennis shoes.) So I call BS on her wearing flip flops on the way to her classroom exam.MOO


Jackson Regional Practical Nursing Program Campuses

Barbara W. Avent, B.S.N., R.N. Program Coordinator

424-0691, Ext 120

TENNESSEE TECHNOLOGY CENTER @ JACKSON

2468 Technology Center Drive, Jackson, TN 38301 731-424-0691
Ms. Lana Pierce, Interim Director




Mrs. Helen Riggs, A.D.N., R.N., Instructor, Parsons Campus

Ms. Heather Collazo, B.S.N., R.N., Clinical Faculty, Parsons, Campus

Dress Code
During classroom hours students may wear casual clothing that projects a non-offensive appearance to a diverse population. Clothing must cover the tops of the shoulders, cleavage, back, stomach and thighs.

*Uniforms are to be clean, wrinkle-free, and in good repair. Dresses are to be worn knee- length. Shoes and laces are to be clean, polished, and in good repair. Students are expected to bathe daily and exhibit non-offensive personal hygiene in classroom and clinical.

*Complete uniform is worn with appropriate skin tone undergarments and plain white hose, knee-hi or trouser socks in all clinical areas except when given other
instructions by the instructor. Complete uniform includes hospital photo ID badge (where applicable) and name tag.

*Hair is to be worn neat, clean, and off the collar. Extreme hair fashion, hair coloring and/or ornaments are not permitted.*

OldSteve
05-23-2012, 10:51 PM
Trying to think, in all these threads for Holly did we ever get caught up in discussing her flip-flops?
Keep in mind, she was going in for tests that day...
The school she went to was an extension, not a main campus.

MizStery
05-23-2012, 11:15 PM
Trying to think, in all these threads for Holly did we ever get caught up in discussing her flip-flops?
Keep in mind, she was going in for tests that day...
The school she went to was an extension, not a main campus.

:deadhorse: I hope you do not think I am a broken record.

The handbook includes the Parsons Extention Campus. This syllabus is a PDF which I copied and pasted in my post #133 MOO

It specifically mentions in the beginning of the LPN handbook at the Parsons Extention Campus the dress code. The administrators of the LPN program listted in the handbook are Mrs. Helen Riggs, A.D.N., R.N., Instructor, Parsons Campus and Ms. Heather Collazo, B.S.N., R.N., Clinical Faculty, Parsons, Campus.

Irish_Eyes
05-24-2012, 12:54 AM
Trying to think, in all these threads for Holly did we ever get caught up in discussing her flip-flops?
Keep in mind, she was going in for tests that day...
The school she went to was an extension, not a main campus.

Exactly, thank you. The post above says that casual clothes can be worn to class, but that lacing shoes must be worn with uniforms. There is clearly a difference between classroom and clinical attire. And we know Holly was taking a test that morning.

This wasn't the middle of winter. We're talking April in Tennessee, right? April in Ohio is a little dicier - it could be 80 degrees, or it could be snowing, you never know. But on warm April days in college, flip flops to class was not at all unusual.

OldSteve, your rule of three has really got me thinking.....

Hatfield
05-24-2012, 05:10 AM
One would be more prone to wear flip-flops inside and not to school - did Holly first encounter the perp inside then and was subsequently taken without time allowed for tying her shoes on? If so, though, why'd she have all the other stuff - cell phone, lunch "wallet," etc.?

I feel I knew more about this case the first day I read about it than I do now - not in terms of details, but just having an idea as to what took place early on.


This post just got me to re-thinking about a very early theory that none of the items that were eventually found actually left the house area attached to Holly. The theory is she dropped ALL of them there outside of the house, and the perp is the one who took them and then scattered them later on.

The reason I had kept thinking this may be the case is because.....

Assuming she was just going to the car to warm it up or maybe take some things out to the car like the backpack, of which most people would never wear a backpack to their car, but carry it to the car. Then the theory is she gets confronted by either a friend or stranger, and there is some sort of fight/argument/etc. She drops ALL of her things of course during the confrontation. After the confrontation, she is in no condition to carry anything, and probably does not even care about going to class anymore because she may have been seriously hurt + semi-concious, so the theory is he would have been the one to take the items from the house area.

If we assume the items that were found were all planted, rather than tossed by Holly, then the perp obviously had those items in his possession during the planting, so the theory goes that the perp also was the one picking up the items and carrying them away from the house area.

cluciano63
05-24-2012, 06:22 AM
We did the whole flip-flop argument a year ago...and solved nothing. JMO

TxLady2
05-24-2012, 08:38 AM
Well DUH!
LOL!! Thanks TXLady, that's funny! ....but I don't think I am that dumb to think ALL missing young women have been taken be one Guy, your right he would have be REALLLLLY OLD.

I just meant some of the cases recently with similar set of circumstances.
Of course you are right in thinking they may already have a suspect and are closing in as we speak. My Post was a "what if" kinda post

Sorry, not my intention to offend you. I was just pointing out that there are similarities in a lot of cases of missing persons. And the same guy could have abducted quite a few of them, then another could have been responsible for several more and on and on. I was just making the point that even though there are similarities, the two states are pretty far apart, so I can't see a connection.
There are serial killers who target certain types of women, though, and there is never a shortage of these thugs running around, so the possibility that this guy who took Holly has done this before... yes, it's something to think about. But since they've got the perp who kidnapped Sierra in custody, I guess we can put that one to rest.

TxLady2
05-24-2012, 08:47 AM
Would it be far out to think that with all the similarities in these cases that, in spite of finding a connection there be a perfectly reasonable link...the internet...think about it, we all know people from all over the world can talk to one another in a millisecond, we all know the evils that lurk on the web, from hacking, illegal pirating, groups in which pedophiles and such communicate and can go undetected. Now you have Facebook, you have millions of people at your fingertips, now suppose there's groups out there who have their own "forums" where they cab discuss the girls the see on Facebook...they could trade info from one end of the country to the other...they could be giving each other tips on how to do it, when to do it, ways in which to dispose of the bodies. Because its more than a coincidence that with all these cases take place and all details are similar. Without law enforcement knowing where to start as far as looking into these groups, it would be easy for the abductors to switch it up and find a new place on the web to plot. Facebook as of lately seems to be a common thread that these girls all share, and it wouldnt be hard for someone to create a sock puppet account and get live details about the whereabouts of these girls and then strike. The key to catching the bad guys would to catch one and do everything possible to dig deeper than deep into any online activity....if LE could gain that knowledge than other cases could follow suit and be solved.

Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk 2

You're absolutely right... the internet is full of groups like you described. I read a book recently about an online group of pedophiles who traded ID's sometimes so they could go undetected while they went about their "business" of stalking and raping young children. It was fiction, of course, but still we know that fiction is sometimes based on real events. And if one were to be curious, I'm sure you could google key words and find these groups and do a little reading. It would startle some people to realize the things you can find on the internet today.

I have always believed that the guy who took Holly was, if not well known, at least a casual acquaintance of hers. Someone who she had encountered in her daily life who developed a crush on her and it went from there.

TxLady2
05-24-2012, 09:03 AM
The Sierra case is very sad, but it also gives us more insight. However, I'm pursuing another course here, welcome or not.

A few observations, if I may:

1) Religion. I see more makeup and provocative clothing than many “religious” young ladies would be wearing. I could be wrong. Maybe “today’s” culture, which would be somewhat at odds with the good Christian religion, sees this as fine. I freely admit, I do not know, simply an observation.

2) What young man, Holly’s brother, calls his mother at work, to ask what’s up with the voices outside their home? Like, he couldn’t go out and look? He twenty some odd years old. Wazzup with that?

3) What mother, being called at work about voices/girl friend and boy friend, with a “turkey” in the middle, tells her son to get the gun? Wazzup with that?

4) What brother, seeing his sister moving on into the woods with her boy friend thinks it will be a “while” before we see her again?

5) What mother collects donatations from wherever and says they are for her daughter’s “vacation”?

6) What bunch of intelligent people sit here and wonder what is going on? US? I guess maybe.

Something STINKS to me.

IF, it were allowed, and I understand why it isn’t, I’ll betcha there would be a lot of good ideas on this case.

MY OPINION ONLY, JUST A FEW OBSERVATIONS, IF I MAY?

Let me add, there are many triads, but triads are good, one just has to find the right combo - I did leave a few out.

I'm not even going to respond to some of your questions because they're all good points. But I can respond to the point about religion. There are certain Christian faiths here in the South that no longer frown on makeup, like they did 50 years ago. Baptists and Methodists come to mind, because I was raised Baptist and my older two sons joined the Methodist church with their wives. Most young women wear lots of makeup, but when I was growing up, my parents were a bit more conservative and wouldn't allow it. Not because it went against their faith, but because my dad said no daughter of his was going to make themselves up to look like a hooker. He didn't use that word, but I can't type the correct one. I was also not allowed to wear shorts any place other than at home. And the school forbid girls to wear jeans or pants of any kind, other than pep rally days. Now they wear anything to school.
We do have some churches here in the South that still preach against makeup and provacative clothes, but their rules seem to be relaxing all the time, because you can see eye makeup on the teens and young women, whereas 50 years ago, that was forbidden. They would have been kicked out of the church. Parents, too, for that matter.

TxLady2
05-24-2012, 09:21 AM
If we are to believe the narration of the events of the morning Holly's abduction...she communicated to her friend that she was putting on her shoes.MOO

10-8-2010
Jackson Sun

Family and. Friends reconstruct events leading up to Holly's abduction
<snipped>
Right after Karen left, Holly spoke on the phone with Hannah Reece, her friend and fellow nursing
student. Reece was the last of Holly’s classmates to speak with her.“I knew Holly before I started the nursing program, but at the start of the year she was just a nursing classmate,” Reese said.“By April, she was like my best friend.”
The morning Holly disappeared, Reece and Holly texted back and forth about their test that morning.
Reece’s cell phone signal was weak.“So around 7 o’clock I called her on her cell phone from my
house phone,” she said. Holly told Reece she was going to eat breakfast and put her
shoes on and said goodbye.“All right, Weece,” Holly said, calling Reece by her nickname,
I’ll see you. Love you.

Now,this is consistent with what I would expect a nursing student would wear. There are all kinds of reasons that a nurse in training,would be expected to wear closed toe shoes. Foremost,is tripping in flip flops and futher injuring your patient. Health professional's
for hygienic reasons .....(i.e. working with bodily fluids,risk of spreading disease,infecting patients wounds,contamination of all kinds in a sterile setting)would make it suspect,a nursing
student,would be allowed to go to the classroom (in nursing school)for any reason in an open toed shoe. Isn't that why they're in nursing school to develop good habits for their eventual profession. MOO

Depends on how far advanced in nursing school she was. For a period of time, it's all done in the classroom. It's not until they begin doing their labs or clinicals that they would be required to wear proper shoes. But I have seen nurses in hospitals wearing open toed shoes.
Around here, you see women wearing flip flops in just about any setting, even church. But she could have had other shoes in her car and intended to put them on once she got to the school.

Carla Lashelle
05-24-2012, 09:29 AM
Look, Holly was going to more or less the modern equivalent of the "one room schoolhouse" for an exam... She was not going to a hosptial etc. I can't see any restriction on wearing flip flops or sandals to a sit down test in a campus building.

People do wear flip flops year round. I can also see calling them shoes. Or if you tell someone you are going to put your shoes on, then go into your bedroom and spy a pair of flip flops so you slip into those. I don't think this is a very important issue here.

It is important to know what Holly was wearing. The initial missing person reports described her as wearing sneakers or tennis shoes but some time (months?) later it became black flip flops.

TxLady2
05-24-2012, 09:30 AM
This post just got me to re-thinking about a very early theory that none of the items that were eventually found actually left the house area attached to Holly. The theory is she dropped ALL of them there outside of the house, and the perp is the one who took them and then scattered them later on.

The reason I had kept thinking this may be the case is because.....

Assuming she was just going to the car to warm it up or maybe take some things out to the car like the backpack, of which most people would never wear a backpack to their car, but carry it to the car. Then the theory is she gets confronted by either a friend or stranger, and there is some sort of fight/argument/etc. She drops ALL of her things of course during the confrontation. After the confrontation, she is in no condition to carry anything, and probably does not even care about going to class anymore because she may have been seriously hurt + semi-concious, so the theory is he would have been the one to take the items from the house area.

If we assume the items that were found were all planted, rather than tossed by Holly, then the perp obviously had those items in his possession during the planting, so the theory goes that the perp also was the one picking up the items and carrying them away from the house area.

She wasn't semi-conscious if she walked casually beside him into the woods, as her brother stated. She could have still been carrying a purse and the lunch bag, though that seems a little far-fetched to me, it's possible.
Anyway, it morphed from being dragged into the woods, to led into the woods, and then into walking casually into the woods with the perp. Makes one wonder what really did happen. The blood in the carport would explain her being hurt, but she would not have been able to walk had she been semi--conscious, I don't think, but maybe dazed?

TxLady2
05-24-2012, 09:44 AM
Just wanted to make a point before I sign off. People keep talking about Clint being an eyewitness. If he still can't identify the perp, it does not help. You could have a dozen eyewitnesses, but if they don't see the face, what good does it do? None. And his account of that morning doesn't seem to be very consistent, or at least whoever was reporting what he said wasn't consistent. He could have been still half-asleep.
Lots of folks are sketchy on details if they've just woke up. We could have a burglar come into our home and rob us blind, but if my husband just woke up, he wouldn't know if he was black or white, short or tall, or had long hair or was bald. He is absolutely useless until he's had a cup of coffee.
Not making excuses for Clint, but from what I've seen so far, he only saw him from a little distance and then with his back to Clint. He didn't see his face, and can only give a general body-type description, so bringing up that he is an eyewitness means very little, IMO. Some are making sound as if Clint was right there within 10 feet of him and looked him in the eyes, and that is false.

wfgodot
05-24-2012, 10:51 AM
Yes, eyewitness testimony, while it can gain convictions, is generally quite suspect as what we think we see, or recall seeing, frequently is not what transpired at all.

Frogzilla
05-24-2012, 12:21 PM
Just wanted to make a point before I sign off. People keep talking about Clint being an eyewitness. If he still can't identify the perp, it does not help. You could have a dozen eyewitnesses, but if they don't see the face, what good does it do? None. And his account of that morning doesn't seem to be very consistent, or at least whoever was reporting what he said wasn't consistent. He could have been still half-asleep.
Lots of folks are sketchy on details if they've just woke up. We could have a burglar come into our home and rob us blind, but if my husband just woke up, he wouldn't know if he was black or white, short or tall, or had long hair or was bald. He is absolutely useless until he's had a cup of coffee.
Not making excuses for Clint, but from what I've seen so far, he only saw him from a little distance and then with his back to Clint. He didn't see his face, and can only give a general body-type description, so bringing up that he is an eyewitness means very little, IMO. Some are making sound as if Clint was right there within 10 feet of him and looked him in the eyes, and that is false.
I find myself referring to CB as a supposed eye witness because his accounts are quite skewed. We really have no idea what he did or did not see and what his original written statement to LE was. I think we can assume that LE wasn't sure what to think of his account since KB has said that she didn't understand all of the suspicion that CB received early on in the case. With the versions that have been given over time, it's very easy to be skeptical but one thing CB can do is place camo man at the home with his sister leaving together (possible component for a circumstantial case. It is LE job to prove who this camo man was, CB account would just be another nail in the coffin). Another point to make about his accounts is that for as confusing as it is as a whole, the silhouettes in the garage and the walking away sequences are far and away the most obscured parts of the story and those are the parts of the story where he does visually place an unknown person with his sister.
In the end, I think most people are past caring about all the discrepancies in his account and just want this case to show some sign of progress, other than being told a couple LE members are eating doughnuts while discussing it on a daily basis.

wfgodot
05-24-2012, 12:26 PM
Can't see Holly wearing flip-flops to anything relating to her nursing education. When I was dating my ex- in college, when she was working on her RN/BSN, while their attire was not formal, it was not casual either, not flip-flop casual at least.

OldSteve
05-24-2012, 12:42 PM
Is it possible she wasn't going out the door to go to class at the time she was taken, but simply going outside quickly in her flip-flops to meet whomever the she the person was outside?

Was this discussed before?

Of course, it's all mood as they say now...

Carla Lashelle
05-24-2012, 03:04 PM
Can't see Holly wearing flip-flops to anything relating to her nursing education. When I was dating my ex- in college, when she was working on her RN/BSN, while their attire was not formal, it was not casual either, not flip-flop casual at least.

IDK here in FLorida you go in the College of Public Health, College of Nursing etc at USF and its flip flops, shorts, etc. These are not medical facilities but rather class rooms. No different than going to English or Animal Husbandry.

wfgodot
05-24-2012, 03:09 PM
IDK here in FLorida you go in the College of Public Health, College of Nursing etc at USF and its flip flops, shorts, etc. These are not medical facilities but rather class rooms. No different than going to English or Animal Husbandry.
Definitely could be. MizStery's Jackson Sun link above about the phone call with Reece where the latter reported H. had said she was "going to eat breakfast and put her shoes on" does make me think she was interrupted in the process whilst wearing flip-flops though.

Frogzilla
05-24-2012, 03:43 PM
Definitely could be. MizStery's Jackson Sun link above about the phone call with Reece where the latter reported H. had said she was "going to eat breakfast and put her shoes on" does make me think she was interrupted in the process whilst wearing flip-flops though.
The confusion really did start right away with this case. You can find the discussions about what she was wearing that day very early in the threads here. There are mentions, and for some reason I thought this as well before looking back, of different missing posters having flip flops, others had sneakers or no footwear description whatsoever.
I tend to think she had sneakers in her car already and wore the flip flops whenever she could, maybe contributing to the initial confusion.
Also in the Jackson Sun article, the conversation with her friend was BEFORE the "flurry" of phone calls between KB, DS, HB and maybe others (?) about DS being confronted by other family members on the Grandmother's property that morning. So whatever happened to HB happened after she just completed umpteen phone calls.
-- Holly told Reece she was going to eat breakfast and put her shoes on and said goodbye.
"All right, Weece," Holly said, calling Reece by her nickname. "I'll see you. Love you."
Holly studied at the kitchen table for a few minutes, then got a call from her boyfriend, Drew Scott, who had been turkey hunting on the other side of Decatur County on Holly's grandmother's property. Since April 2, the opening day of turkey season, hunters from around the state had been entering the woods a half hour before daybreak.
One of Karen's relatives did not recognize Drew and his dad, and Drew explained to them that he was Holly's boyfriend and that Holly's grandmother, Karen's mother, had given him permission to hunt on her 60 acres on the south end of the county. Drew called Holly and told her what happened. That was just before 7:30 a.m., according to the family.
A flurry of phone calls followed between Holly, Drew and Karen about the confusion over Drew hunting on Karen's mother's property.
Karen said she last spoke with her daughter between 7:30 and 7:35, while Clint was still asleep in his room.
Investigators have tried to determine what happened to Holly in the next 20 minutes.
Authorities say they need people to speak up if they saw anything out of the ordinary that morning.
http://www.jacksonsun.com/article/20120101/NEWS25/102200007/Final-hours-Holly-Family-friends-police-reconstruct-time-before-Holly-Bobo-s-abduction

Chili Fries
05-24-2012, 06:17 PM
Definitely could be. MizStery's Jackson Sun link above about the phone call with Reece where the latter reported H. had said she was "going to eat breakfast and put her shoes on" does make me think she was interrupted in the process whilst wearing flip-flops though.

Who knows. When my nieces here in Alabama say "put my shoes on" they mean whatever shoes they need to go outside, it could be flip flops or or it could be sneakers. Just means they are going to put something on their bare feet.

wfgodot
05-24-2012, 06:22 PM
Holly's now been missing for 406 days.

Last TBI press release: 400 days ago!

marycarney
05-24-2012, 06:37 PM
Holly's now been missing for 406 days.

Last TBI press release: 400 days ago!

Wow! Just wow!

~n/t~
05-24-2012, 06:48 PM
Is it possible she wasn't going out the door to go to class at the time she was taken, but simply going outside quickly in her flip-flops to meet whomever the she the person was outside?

Was this discussed before?

Of course, it's all mood as they say now...

Where does finding her lunchbag and cellphone fit in though? If, let's say, she heard something and she went outside to check what was going on, would she bring her lunchbag with her? Maybe her cellphone but not the lunchbag, imo.

~n/t~
05-24-2012, 06:49 PM
Holly's now been missing for 406 days.

Last TBI press release: 400 days ago!

I think that in itself speaks volumes, imo Something ain't right with this case.

~n/t~
05-24-2012, 06:54 PM
The confusion really did start right away with this case. You can find the discussions about what she was wearing that day very early in the threads here. There are mentions, and for some reason I thought this as well before looking back, of different missing posters having flip flops, others had sneakers or no footwear description whatsoever.
I tend to think she had sneakers in her car already and wore the flip flops whenever she could, maybe contributing to the initial confusion.
Also in the Jackson Sun article, the conversation with her friend was BEFORE the "flurry" of phone calls between KB, DS, HB and maybe others (?) about DS being confronted by other family members on the Grandmother's property that morning. So whatever happened to HB happened after she just completed umpteen phone calls.
-- Holly told Reece she was going to eat breakfast and put her shoes on and said goodbye.
"All right, Weece," Holly said, calling Reece by her nickname. "I'll see you. Love you."
Holly studied at the kitchen table for a few minutes, then got a call from her boyfriend, Drew Scott, who had been turkey hunting on the other side of Decatur County on Holly's grandmother's property. Since April 2, the opening day of turkey season, hunters from around the state had been entering the woods a half hour before daybreak.
One of Karen's relatives did not recognize Drew and his dad, and Drew explained to them that he was Holly's boyfriend and that Holly's grandmother, Karen's mother, had given him permission to hunt on her 60 acres on the south end of the county. Drew called Holly and told her what happened. That was just before 7:30 a.m., according to the family.
A flurry of phone calls followed between Holly, Drew and Karen about the confusion over Drew hunting on Karen's mother's property.
Karen said she last spoke with her daughter between 7:30 and 7:35, while Clint was still asleep in his room.
Investigators have tried to determine what happened to Holly in the next 20 minutes.
Authorities say they need people to speak up if they saw anything out of the ordinary that morning.http://www.jacksonsun.com/article/20120101/NEWS25/102200007/Final-hours-Holly-Family-friends-police-reconstruct-time-before-Holly-Bobo-s-abduction

bbm

And nobody is speaking up except for the neighbour's son who allegedly heard a scream and told his mom to go check the Bobo house.

nosyone
05-25-2012, 08:02 PM
Does anyone know if there has ever been a case of this magnitude that LE doesn't comment on?

wfgodot
05-25-2012, 08:21 PM
Does anyone know if there has ever been a case of this magnitude that LE doesn't comment on?
Probably has, but I can't think of a one.

Honestly, this investigation has been so poorly handled that it's shut me up about the lack of quality LE where I live - in OK. Because OSBI, compared to TBI, has come to seem an oasis of info and a keen and professional investigative agency in comparison. For that to have happened, I guarantee it has to be bad.

Carla Lashelle
05-25-2012, 10:12 PM
Where does finding her lunchbag and cellphone fit in though? If, let's say, she heard something and she went outside to check what was going on, would she bring her lunchbag with her? Maybe her cellphone but not the lunchbag, imo.

supposedly also there was a spilled soda by her car. I assume Holly had gone out not to investigate anything but to get in her car and go to school. She was surpised...

~n/t~
05-27-2012, 07:44 PM
supposedly also there was a spilled soda by her car. I assume Holly had gone out not to investigate anything but to get in her car and go to school. She was surpised...

I was replying to OldSteve's post speculating that she perhaps didn't go out to go to class and that's why I asked where the lunchbag would fit into that scenario.

cluciano63
05-27-2012, 08:35 PM
Other than the behavior of Clint, from beginning to end, the strangest thing of all to me is the number of minutes that passed between this person appearing on scene and he and Holly leaving the property. JMO

wfgodot
05-27-2012, 08:41 PM
Other than the behavior of Clint, from beginning to end, the strangest thing of all to me is the number of minutes that passed between this person appearing on scene and he and Holly leaving the property. JMO
How many minutes do we estimate that to be? Or is it an impossible question, given the uncertainty of a witness account?

Frogzilla
05-27-2012, 10:33 PM
How many minutes do we estimate that to be? Or is it an impossible question, given the uncertainty of a witness account?
I believe the neighbor heard a scream at 7:40, CB wakes up at 7:50 and for all the events to play out that CB describes is at least 5 minutes.. So I think the general consensus is somewhere between 10-15~ minutes.

wfgodot
05-27-2012, 10:54 PM
I believe the neighbor heard a scream at 7:40, CB wakes up at 7:50 and for all the events to play out that CB describes is at least 5 minutes.. So I think the general consensus is somewhere between 10-15~ minutes.
Thanks. I'd forgotten all that - brain clogged. I did think it was somewhere around 20 minutes, which seems a hell of a long time, so I wasn't that far off I guess.

So if he was there 10-15 minutes, I'd say it had to be someone known to Holly.

Whisperer
05-27-2012, 11:09 PM
Family has not made much attempt to keep it in the media but they did make many appearances locally to raise money. The first few days, they raised almost $30,000 selling t'shirts and such...and it goes way up from the first week.

Whisperer
05-27-2012, 11:16 PM
Does anyone know if there has ever been a case of this magnitude that LE doesn't comment on?

Yeah, mostly the deep South. Look at the Tara Grinstead case for starters.

These Sheriff/Pastor types like to keep things to themselves....and the people don't seem to mind either. They follow the Sheriff/Pastors' orders....like sheep.

The Bobo case and the Grinstead case should have both been solved in the first 48 hrs. Can you imagine any LE in the U.S arriving at the scene of the crime within x10 min of 911 (Bobo), with an eye witness and NOT solving the crime. In GA and TN, it seems to happen more than anywhere else in the country.

cluciano63
05-27-2012, 11:20 PM
I believe the neighbor heard a scream at 7:40, CB wakes up at 7:50 and for all the events to play out that CB describes is at least 5 minutes.. So I think the general consensus is somewhere between 10-15~ minutes.

Even 5 minutes would be a long time...they had to have been having some conversation to last 10-20 minutes before it went bad, or she agreed, for better or worse (obviously worse), to go.

Frogzilla
05-28-2012, 12:14 AM
Even 5 minutes would be a long time...they had to have been having some conversation to last 10-20 minutes before it went bad, or she agreed, for better or worse (obviously worse), to go.
Trying to put this in the best chronological order that makes sense to me (also trying really hard not to include any bias I may have!). It is all so confusing when you consider the overall time spent at the home. A neighbor hears screaming from the Bobo property, 7:40, as he is leaving for work and doesn't take the time to check it out but instead takes the time to inform his mother about it, who I believe was living in a separate dwelling on the same property. Ten minutes pass by and CB wakes up to the sound of dogs barking, 7:50. CB checks windows for meter man and eventually sees HB car in the garage. He calls his mother to see if HB was suppose to be home still but the secretary answers to pass along a message. CB hears arguing voices outside and one he describes as a younger sounding male. He then sees silhouettes kneeling in the garage (looking at a turkey). About this time CB talks with his mother to ask if anyone was suppose to be home. CB then catches a supposed glimpse of HB and camo man walking away together, casually walking with elbows bent. He tries to call HB phone and DS phone, both rings five times and go to voicemail, and CB believes because they are not answering that they must be together. CB then talks with his mother who tells him that is not DS, to grab a gun and call 911. CB then goes out to the garage and sees blood where the silhouettes were kneeling (thinks it's turkey blood), pokes around the property some and the neighbor lady arrives at the home a little after 8AM. As the neighbor lady pulls up, CB then calls 911 but as he is dialing he can hear that the police are close to his home.

Hatfield
05-29-2012, 10:48 AM
Trying to put this in the best chronological order that makes sense to me (also trying really hard not to include any bias I may have!). It is all so confusing when you consider the overall time spent at the home. A neighbor hears screaming from the Bobo property, 7:40, as he is leaving for work and doesn't take the time to check it out but instead takes the time to inform his mother about it, who I believe was living in a separate dwelling on the same property. Ten minutes pass by and CB wakes up to the sound of dogs barking, 7:50. CB checks windows for meter man and eventually sees HB car in the garage. He calls his mother to see if HB was suppose to be home still but the secretary answers to pass along a message. CB hears arguing voices outside and one he describes as a younger sounding male. He then sees silhouettes kneeling in the garage (looking at a turkey). About this time CB talks with his mother to ask if anyone was suppose to be home. CB then catches a supposed glimpse of HB and camo man walking away together, casually walking with elbows bent. He tries to call HB phone and DS phone, both rings five times and go to voicemail, and CB believes because they are not answering that they must be together. CB then talks with his mother who tells him that is not DS, to grab a gun and call 911. CB then goes out to the garage and sees blood where the silhouettes were kneeling (thinks it's turkey blood), pokes around the property some and the neighbor lady arrives at the home a little after 8AM. As the neighbor lady pulls up, CB then calls 911 but as he is dialing he can hear that the police are close to his home.


This is a very good summary.

JMO that I think some of the main storyline we have been using is based on the information that was provided in the Jackson article. When that article came out, I began to get very sceptic of the information for 3 main reasons.

First, it took a very long time before these types of details were released, and they were only released from friends + family members and not LE statements. If LE would have provided some of the info, I would have felt much better about what we saw in the article.

Secondly, the Jackson paper began soliciting information from the public before that article came out, so they were going to run an article based on feedback they got. I began to wonder why the paper did not use other local people's feedback, and predominantly only used family + friends feedback. Surely, other people provided some other feedback, but none of that was included at all. If I recall it correctly, the paper actually asked the public to submit their questions and anything they had to say about the case, so I would have thought there would have been other comments included.

Thirdly, the stated 7:50 wake up time. I just cannot see this late wake up time being accurate, with all that was mentioned by the witness happening after he woke up. Just getting out of bed is about a minute or 2, and then with all the phone calls, running around the house, letting phones ring out 5 times each, etc. etc. I just cannot see this time as being accurate. So, IMO only, I have to throw out this wake up time. And, if I then assume this is not accurate, then what else is not accurate.

So, basically, I am sceptic of a lot of the information that was provided. If LE would have confirmed some of the information, I would feel better about it, but I have huge concerns about parts of that article. Especially the parts that seemed to be more about establishing alibis than anything else. For example, the part where it is pointed out about "being across town" and the reason for the flurry of calls. But the wake-up time just seems to be way too late to me to be accurate and still accomplish all that is stated was accomplished.

All JMO.

Hatfield
05-29-2012, 10:59 AM
OT, but maybe not.....

I had chosen this screen name (Hatfield) quite awhile ago because of the area of the country this case has taken place, and I had no idea at the time, that the HISTORY Channel (HIST) would be running a 3 part show on the "Hatfields and the McCoys". I saw part 1 last night. It is a really good show if anyone gets a chance to see it. It helps to explain how 2 families can get into a very serious long-term fued that ends up with tragedy in both families.

Anyway, just wanted to mention this, as Part 1 last night was really good. I am not sure when Part 2 or 3 will be running, but it is easy to lookup for the History Channel, if anybody is interested.

OldSteve
05-29-2012, 11:57 AM
Disappearance of Louisiana college student Michaela "Mickey" Shunick eerily similar to Lauren Spierer case

Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/disappearance-louisiana-college-student-michaela-mickey-shunick-eerily-similar-lauren-spierer-case-article-1.1085903#ixzz1wH5kZruf

http://assets.nydailynews.com/polopoly_fs/1.1085902.1338305801!/img/httpImage/image.jpg_gen/derivatives/landscape_635/image.jpg

When I saw this, I immediately thought they should add Holly's picture as well...

Carla Lashelle
05-29-2012, 01:34 PM
I don't see a connection between Holly and those two aside from them being young and blonde.

S and S were abducted at night Holly was abducted in the morning/daylight
S and S were in the city Holly lives out of town/rural area
S and S were alone, away from home, Holly was at home
S and S were leaving parties, Holly was going to school
S and S could have been impaired (drinking or drugs at party) Holly was probably not
White pick up truck (coincidence?) seen around S and S... no vehicle linked to Holly

wfgodot
05-29-2012, 01:38 PM
Disappearance of Louisiana college student Michaela "Mickey" Shunick eerily similar to Lauren Spierer case

Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/disappearance-louisiana-college-student-michaela-mickey-shunick-eerily-similar-lauren-spierer-case-article-1.1085903#ixzz1wH5kZruf

http://assets.nydailynews.com/polopoly_fs/1.1085902.1338305801!/img/httpImage/image.jpg_gen/derivatives/landscape_635/image.jpg

When I saw this, I immediately thought they should add Holly's picture as well...
Yes, and it was good to see Holly's name in the news also, attached to articles about the two others as evidence that unsolved disappearances are ever with us.

Good to see Holly Bobo's name, yes, ALTHOUGH NOT THROUGH ANY EFFORT ON THE PART OF TBI AND LE TO KEEP HER NAME IN THE PAPERS, THOUGH, AS IT WOULD SEEM THEY HAVE WRITTEN THIS CASE OFF ENTIRELY.

Damn.

Whisperer
05-29-2012, 02:40 PM
So has the family...

clarabelle
05-29-2012, 04:33 PM
The confusion really did start right away with this case. You can find the discussions about what she was wearing that day very early in the threads here. There are mentions, and for some reason I thought this as well before looking back, of different missing posters having flip flops, others had sneakers or no footwear description whatsoever.
I tend to think she had sneakers in her car already and wore the flip flops whenever she could, maybe contributing to the initial confusion.
Also in the Jackson Sun article, the conversation with her friend was BEFORE the "flurry" of phone calls between KB, DS, HB and maybe others (?) about DS being confronted by other family members on the Grandmother's property that morning. So whatever happened to HB happened after she just completed umpteen phone calls.
-- Holly told Reece she was going to eat breakfast and put her shoes on and said goodbye.
"All right, Weece," Holly said, calling Reece by her nickname. "I'll see you. Love you."
Holly studied at the kitchen table for a few minutes, then got a call from her boyfriend, Drew Scott, who had been turkey hunting on the other side of Decatur County on Holly's grandmother's property. Since April 2, the opening day of turkey season, hunters from around the state had been entering the woods a half hour before daybreak.
One of Karen's relatives did not recognize Drew and his dad, and Drew explained to them that he was Holly's boyfriend and that Holly's grandmother, Karen's mother, had given him permission to hunt on her 60 acres on the south end of the county. Drew called Holly and told her what happened. That was just before 7:30 a.m., according to the family.
A flurry of phone calls followed between Holly, Drew and Karen about the confusion over Drew hunting on Karen's mother's property.
Karen said she last spoke with her daughter between 7:30 and 7:35, while Clint was still asleep in his room.
Investigators have tried to determine what happened to Holly in the next 20 minutes.
Authorities say they need people to speak up if they saw anything out of the ordinary that morning.
http://www.jacksonsun.com/article/20120101/NEWS25/102200007/Final-hours-Holly-Family-friends-police-reconstruct-time-before-Holly-Bobo-s-abduction

This is so ridiculous its funny. Unfortunately the info is correct and Holly is still missing. There are so many inane details with no relevant information. Don't they say that when people lie they provide lots of details to back up their story and make it sound more true?

Some things that stand out and make no sense to me (BBM):

Is it normal to tell someone you are going to put your shoes on? She's about to take a big test and she is thinking of shoes? And its never been released what kind of shoes she was wearing.

Drew has to get to work. Holly has to get to school. Drew calls Holly to tell her about the turkey hunting fiasco. Should be a short phone call. Somehow Karen becomes involved. Karen is at work, Karen is a teacher, and generally when you are teaching classes you cannot take unimportant phone calls and chat about turkeys (at least my teacher friends wouldn't)

I tend to run late but I would think that you would want to be a bit early particularly if you have a major exam. Just to get in your car, drive (next door for example), park and get out of your car and walk to your destination could take just under 10 minutes. No traffic, no lights. Oh and you have to put on your shoes first. Isn't that pushing it?

Its normal to carry your backpack and lunch to your car. If suddenly interrupted you might drop them but you are not very likely to carry them off into the woods with someone you may or may not know. If you are being kidnapped from your yard why would the abductor care about your stuff?

I won't get started on the sleeping brother, the neighbor hearing a scream, the neighbors son stopping to tell her then going on his merry way, the neighbor calling Karen at work to ask whats going on at her home, the brother calling Karen at work to ask who is in the yard, and the brother remotely thinking that his sister would want to kneel down to see a dead turkey.

I tend to think the article is questioning the information as much as reporting it.

nosyone
05-29-2012, 08:50 PM
I am beginning to wonder if it could be possible that Holly ran away with someone. With LE not communicating anything from the 6th day of the incident, and CB saying that he had a feeling that they wouldn't be getting HB back for a long time (paraphrasing), it almost sounds like he knew the person she was walking off with. We all have posted inconsistencies in EVERYONE who is reportedly involved stories. I just wish I knew what in the world is going on here, and what truly happened.

wfgodot
05-29-2012, 08:52 PM
LE has made statements after the sixth day. But of course they've not put them in writing.

Additionally, I find nothing strange in that morning until the time when everything became very strange indeed.

Frogzilla
05-30-2012, 02:13 AM
There were two parts to the Jackson Sun article, I'm going to bring the other one forward.
http://www.jacksonsun.com/article/20120101/NEWS25/102200005/Holly-Bobo-s-family-questions-early-handling-investigation
"A lot of people stuck their nose in law enforcement business that day, and too many people showed up there at one time," Wyatt (county sheriff) said. "We were trying to keep people away as best as we could, but when you have a few hundred people showing up, it is hard to do."
"As I was writing my statement, I guess I kind of had a feeling that we might not get Holly back right away," Clint said. "So I was trying to preserve the crime scene and keep it from being disrupted because I knew the only thing we might have would be footprints, and I knew if someone stepped on them, then that's ruined.
"After I had stopped Mom and a few people and said, 'Don't walk up the trail and in the woods,' people started walking up there, so I just sat down in the car and continued writing my statement out," he said. "I wasn't going to be able to stop everyone who was coming up here from walking where they had been."
"I don't believe that was the case," Mehr (TBI) said. "We have to believe what was told to us by the initial responders. . .And I have no doubt the initial responders told us the truth."
"It was so disorganized I got disgusted," Middleton (local resident) said. "With the people ripping through the woods on four-wheelers in the rain, you wouldn't be able to track anybody." "To drive in and drive out, you would to know those back roads."

Whisperer
05-30-2012, 06:12 AM
Clint saw the perp and said he was wearing FULL turkey gear. Clint also said he thought it was Drew. What if it was? Darn sure they know who would be wearing FULL turkey gear on their own property. Turkey camo is very distinctive...and unlike regular camo.

.....where is Drew? Did he fall off the face of the earth?

Whisperer
05-30-2012, 06:15 AM
There were two parts to the Jackson Sun article, I'm going to bring the other one forward.
http://www.jacksonsun.com/article/20120101/NEWS25/102200005/Holly-Bobo-s-family-questions-early-handling-investigation
"A lot of people stuck their nose in law enforcement business that day, and too many people showed up there at one time," Wyatt (county sheriff) said. "We were trying to keep people away as best as we could, but when you have a few hundred people showing up, it is hard to do."
"As I was writing my statement, I guess I kind of had a feeling that we might not get Holly back right away," Clint said. "So I was trying to preserve the crime scene and keep it from being disrupted because I knew the only thing we might have would be footprints, and I knew if someone stepped on them, then that's ruined.
"After I had stopped Mom and a few people and said, 'Don't walk up the trail and in the woods,' people started walking up there, so I just sat down in the car and continued writing my statement out," he said. "I wasn't going to be able to stop everyone who was coming up here from walking where they had been."
"I don't believe that was the case," Mehr (TBI) said. "We have to believe what was told to us by the initial responders. . .And I have no doubt the initial responders told us the truth."
"It was so disorganized I got disgusted," Middleton (local resident) said. "With the people ripping through the woods on four-wheelers in the rain, you wouldn't be able to track anybody." "To drive in and drive out, you would to know those back roads."

How in the world did a few hundred people arrive at the scene within the first few minutes of the crime. Why didn't LE tape it off? I also want to know why the people that know those woods couldn't find the vehicle that took Holly, if there ever was one. Where was Clint's car parked when he was writing his narrative for LE? Why wasn't he driving his car to cut off the vehicle that had to leave the woods eventually? With that many people there, one of them must have been the perp....at least that's how I figure it.

Whisperer
05-30-2012, 06:22 AM
Why is Dana left out of the story? Everything circles around Karen. Not one person asked Dana if he saw Holly. The male neighbor called his mom and Clint called his mom. I don't know, the entire story is false, imo.

A turkey camoed perp appears and talks to Holly at her house and brothe never engages him. The man must have harmed Holly (she screamed) and her own brother never heard anything but a neighbor 1/4 mi. away did. Holly went with a guy in a vehicle and the guy threw out her phone and lunchbag soon after It is also rumored her books were scattered on the main drag near her school. Of course the LE/pastors there won't confirm a darn thing.

Dana let the cat out of the bag about the blood in the garage belonging to Holly. He was then wisked from his seat on national TV by one of those pastor/sheriff/spokespeople type. Things that make you go hmmmmmm.

goldiegirl
05-30-2012, 06:28 AM
I honestly can't believe I'm saying this. I really, really can't. And I'm not saying I necessarily believe this, but it's a possible scenario. What if Holly did run away with someone, and Clint made all this up to cover for her? Maybe that's why nothing makes sense.

It's been mentioned over and over how odd it is that LE got to the scene relatively quickly, there was an eye witness, yet the case has gone nowhere. It seems very difficult for someone to get out of the area and to leave no trace in such a short period of time, given the description of the area, yet supposedly that's what happened. That just doesn't add up.

I really do believe this could explain a lot of things. It could either be that at this point the story got so out of control that Clint just can't bring himself to tell the truth or maybe he even has told his parents, and that's why they say we don't know the whole story and why Clint said he had a feeling we wouldn't be getting Holly back soon? Again, I'm not suggesting that the family is withholding information from LE, just throwing this out there. This could also explain that randomly placed items of Holly's that were found - it could have all been a ploy.

I might even go so far as to say that LE might know this, too, and that may be why they haven't released anymore information, but I'd think the FBI would retract its "abducted" label.

Honestly, at this point this is beginning to be the only thing that makes sense to me. I guess the one part that kind of goes against this theory is that I would assume LE has gone through Holly's computer and phone records and would have found out about any plans to meet up with someone, unless they really did this in a sneaky way. And I just can't believe that LE would know that she ran away and would not change their press release or her poster to "endangered runaway," but you never know.

goldiegirl
05-30-2012, 06:37 AM
I know I just threw out a theory to the contrary, but I'm just playing devil's advocate in both cases.

I wanted to address the confusion about Holly's shoes that she had on that morning and the discrepancies in the missing posters. Although this initially seems odd, it doesn't really concern me too much, and here's why...

First of all, how would anyone know what shoes she was wearing that morning for sure? Just by process of elimination regarding which shoes were missing? Or does Clint claim that he saw her shoes as she was walking into the woods?

My husband went missing a couple years ago, and I went down to the PD to file a missing person report. I HAD seen my husband when he walked out the door, but when they asked me to describe his shorts, I had to guess between basketball shorts or khakis, which are nothing alike. Then, when I got home I thought I saw the shorts I had told them he was wearing in the dirty clothes pile, so I had to call and ask them to change the information on his posters. So, alreadly, we had two batches of posters with completely different descriptions of clothing. THEN, when he was found, it turns out he was wearing an entirely different pair of shorts.

Between my not being able to recall what I last saw him in, his changing at the last minute, my not having an inventory of all of his shorts and mistaking what I saw in the closet for his "only" pair of khaki shorts when he had others, etc., it was really a complete mess and it was anyone's guess what he was wearing on the bottom.

Fortunately, in our case he was found safe and the shorts never mattered, but I just wanted to use this example because I had a clear shot of him, had a conversation with him, and still could not recall what he was wearing. I had to do it by process of elimination, ended up getting it wrong, and we produced two different copies of MP posters, so I can see how this shoe confusion would happen, and I don't make much of it. After all, the only eye witness was her brother, and what 25-yr-old brother pays much attention to his sister's shoes, especially if he only sees her for a split second while she's being abducted?

But as with most things in this case, you just never know....

Mysterylover
05-30-2012, 07:58 AM
I am beginning to wonder if it could be possible that Holly ran away with someone.
With LE not communicating anything from the 6th day of the incident, and CB saying that he had a feeling that they wouldn't be getting HB back for a long time (paraphrasing),
it almost sounds like he knew the person she was walking off with. We all have posted inconsistencies in EVERYONE who is reportedly involved stories.
I just wish I knew what in the world is going on here, and what truly happened....

nosyone, Bingo!
Common sense says the SILENCE since the cell phone was found speaks for itself..
the numerous changing descriptions of her disappearance and the abduction changed to just missing...
imo, she left with someone K. did not approve of, and that is the reason C. said what he said, 'she won't be found anytime soon....why else make that remark??jmo

Mysterylover
05-30-2012, 08:11 AM
Why is Dana left out of the story?
Everything circles around Karen.
Not one person asked Dana if he saw Holly.
The male neighbor called his mom and Clint called his mom. I don't know, the entire story is false, imo.

A turkey camoed perp appears and talks to Holly at her house and brothe never engages him. The man must have harmed Holly (she screamed) and her own brother never heard anything but a neighbor 1/4 mi. away did. Holly went with a guy in a vehicle and the guy threw out her phone and lunchbag soon after It is also rumored her books were scattered on the main drag near her school.
Of course the LE/pastors there won't confirm a darn thing.

Dana let the cat out of the bag about the blood in the garage belonging to Holly.
He was then wisked from his seat on national TV by one of those pastor/sheriff/spokespeople type.
Things that make you go hmmmmmmmm....

Whisperer, It comes across like 'they' don't want Dana to say much and seems that he isn't the one pulling the strings in this story.

From the very first hours, most everything/everyone involved with this case makes you go Hmmmm!
IMO, this case was Never what it seemed...Hmmmm!, is anyone wearing 'hip boots'?

Mysterylover
05-30-2012, 08:22 AM
How in the world did a few hundred people arrive at the scene within the first few minutes of the crime.

Why didn't LE tape it off?

I also want to know why the people that know those woods couldn't find the vehicle that took Holly, if there ever was one.

Where was Clint's car parked when he was writing his Narrative for LE?

Why wasn't he driving his car to cut off the vehicle that had to leave the woods eventually?
With that many people there, one of them must have been the perp....at lest that's how I figure it....

Whisperer, Excellent points, why?..

Mysterylover
05-30-2012, 08:35 AM
Clint saw the perp and said he was wearing FULL turkey gear. Clint also said he thought it was Drew.
What if it was?
Darn sure they know who would be wearing FULL turkey gear on their own property.
Turkey camo is very distinctive...and unlike regular camo.

.....where is Drew? Did he fall off the face of the earth?....

Whisperer, Per grandmother, in love and talking marriage, spending every night together for the last yr...
and not one word of concern from this guy for over a yr. for the love of his life who's missing....Hmmmmm!...
and yet, it was so urgent/important to make so many calls about turkey hunting the morning H. went missing...Hmmmm!..imo

cluciano63
05-30-2012, 09:22 AM
I honestly can't believe I'm saying this. I really, really can't. And I'm not saying I necessarily believe this, but it's a possible scenario. What if Holly did run away with someone, and Clint made all this up to cover for her? Maybe that's why nothing makes sense.

It's been mentioned over and over how odd it is that LE got to the scene relatively quickly, there was an eye witness, yet the case has gone nowhere. It seems very difficult for someone to get out of the area and to leave no trace in such a short period of time, given the description of the area, yet supposedly that's what happened. That just doesn't add up.

I really do believe this could explain a lot of things. It could either be that at this point the story got so out of control that Clint just can't bring himself to tell the truth or maybe he even has told his parents, and that's why they say we don't know the whole story and why Clint said he had a feeling we wouldn't be getting Holly back soon? Again, I'm not suggesting that the family is withholding information from LE, just throwing this out there. This could also explain that randomly placed items of Holly's that were found - it could have all been a ploy.

I might even go so far as to say that LE might know this, too, and that may be why they haven't released anymore information, but I'd think the FBI would retract its "abducted" label.

Honestly, at this point this is beginning to be the only thing that makes sense to me. I guess the one part that kind of goes against this theory is that I would assume LE has gone through Holly's computer and phone records and would have found out about any plans to meet up with someone, unless they really did this in a sneaky way. And I just can't believe that LE would know that she ran away and would not change their press release or her poster to "endangered runaway," but you never know.


Regarding the FBI's choice of labeling on their site, they have little Lindsey Baum, Kyron and others under 12 as "Missing" and yet Holly as "Kidnapped." So I am not sure that they pay close attention to what they write on on the photos. JMO

Hatfield
05-30-2012, 09:25 AM
How in the world did a few hundred people arrive at the scene within the first few minutes of the crime. Why didn't LE tape it off? I also want to know why the people that know those woods couldn't find the vehicle that took Holly, if there ever was one. Where was Clint's car parked when he was writing his narrative for LE? Why wasn't he driving his car to cut off the vehicle that had to leave the woods eventually? With that many people there, one of them must have been the perp....at least that's how I figure it.

To help answer this highlighted question, there was a recent interview with the Mom, where she claimed that they began calling everyone they knew, so IMO, they themselves caused all the people to come over and cause disruption to the investigation. I dont want to try and look up what interview that was in, but it was one of the more recent ones. When I saw that stated, it made me even more suspicious of things because why would someone begin to call everyone they knew when they haven't even figured out why she left. For all they knew at the time, she may have just gone off with a friend after a shouting match or something.

Also, wouldn't most people wait to talk with LE to see what LE directed them to do before calling everyone + their cousins to spread the news around town to come over and help. This just seems bizarre to me.

cluciano63
05-30-2012, 10:01 AM
To help answer this highlighted question, there was a recent interview with the Mom, where she claimed that they began calling everyone they knew, so IMO, they themselves caused all the people to come over and cause disruption to the investigation. I dont want to try and look up what interview that was in, but it was one of the more recent ones. When I saw that stated, it made me even more suspicious of things because why would someone begin to call everyone they knew when they haven't even figured out why she left. For all they knew at the time, she may have just gone off with a friend after a shouting match or something.




Also, wouldn't most people wait to talk with LE to see what LE directed them to do before calling everyone + their cousins to spread the news around town to come over and help. This just seems bizarre to me.

Mom seems to have known something was going on with Holly, whether she had had a bad break-up at some point, or a stalker, or a threat. That is all that makes sense anyway, but why should anything make sense in this case...yet if so, Clint was unaware...surprise, surprise.

Hatfield
05-30-2012, 10:16 AM
Mom seems to have known something was going on with Holly, whether she had had a bad break-up at some point, or a stalker, or a threat. That is all that makes sense anyway, but why should anything make sense in this case...yet if so, Clint was unaware...surprise, surprise.


I agree. The immediate falling down at the school, etc. It all points to that she almost expected something like this could happen.

I'm convinced of one thing. The public has not been told all that is known about this case, and if we were informed, then some of the confusing things would probably make more sense.

Which totally boggles my mind, because if you really want your daughter found, you would think you would share all that is known and protect NO ONE!!! Something is not making sense about this case. It leads me to think they are protecting someone they care about almost as much as their daughter. JMO of course

OldSteve
05-30-2012, 10:46 AM
How in the world did a few hundred people arrive at the scene within the first few minutes of the crime. Why didn't LE tape it off? I also want to know why the people that know those woods couldn't find the vehicle that took Holly, if there ever was one. Where was Clint's car parked when he was writing his narrative for LE? Why wasn't he driving his car to cut off the vehicle that had to leave the woods eventually? With that many people there, one of them must have been the perp....at least that's how I figure it.

You raise the questions that I've wondered about on these threads as well:
The crime scene seemed to instantly have lots of LE, and agencies become involved. Ironically, with so many involved it was like they didn't know what to do first.
No road blocks, no copter in the sky...

The governor became involved in providing a reward faster than I've ever seen it done.

The plight of the family seemed to go viral somehow and lots and lots of locals showed up, but despite all the people pouring into the crime scene none report seeing HB being taken out of the area or even in the woods...

wfgodot
05-30-2012, 10:51 AM
Tennessee LE in the Bobo matter: they came, they saw, they threw reward money at it, and they left.

froginTtown
05-30-2012, 11:00 AM
I know this much,,,
Why didn't a cop go around, and try to head them off at the end off the logging road...?? If Clint seen them enter the woods and within minutes the police showed up as he was dialing 911...
Sorry... not buying into any story at this point... LE's or the family....
Prayers for Holly..

~n/t~
05-30-2012, 12:18 PM
Someone correct me if I'm wrong but IIRC, the case stalled when her cellphone was allegedly found (around Easter ??). I think that is when searches stopped and we hadn't heard anything from LE since then.

~n/t~
05-30-2012, 12:22 PM
There were two parts to the Jackson Sun article, I'm going to bring the other one forward.
http://www.jacksonsun.com/article/20120101/NEWS25/102200005/Holly-Bobo-s-family-questions-early-handling-investigation
"A lot of people stuck their nose in law enforcement business that day, and too many people showed up there at one time," Wyatt (county sheriff) said. "We were trying to keep people away as best as we could, but when you have a few hundred people showing up, it is hard to do."
"As I was writing my statement, I guess I kind of had a feeling that we might not get Holly back right away," Clint said. "So I was trying to preserve the crime scene and keep it from being disrupted because I knew the only thing we might have would be footprints, and I knew if someone stepped on them, then that's ruined.
"After I had stopped Mom and a few people and said, 'Don't walk up the trail and in the woods,' people started walking up there, so I just sat down in the car and continued writing my statement out," he said. "I wasn't going to be able to stop everyone who was coming up here from walking where they had been."
"I don't believe that was the case," Mehr (TBI) said. "We have to believe what was told to us by the initial responders. . .And I have no doubt the initial responders told us the truth."
"It was so disorganized I got disgusted," Middleton (local resident) said. "With the people ripping through the woods on four-wheelers in the rain, you wouldn't be able to track anybody." "To drive in and drive out, you would to know those back roads."


bbm

The bolded part is so ominous, imo

It can be interpreted in so many ways. It's as if he knew Holly wouldn't be coming back and he may not necessarily be referring to the "footprints" as the perp's footprints but Holly's. That would be the only thing left of her. Her footprints and if people stepped on them, it would be ruined. Almost like a memory of Holly.

wishuwerehere
05-30-2012, 04:35 PM
bbm

The bolded part is so ominous, imo

It can be interpreted in so many ways. It's as if he knew Holly wouldn't be coming back and he may not necessarily be referring to the "footprints" as the perp's footprints but Holly's. That would be the only thing left of her. Her footprints and if people stepped on them, it would be ruined. Almost like a memory of Holly.

I agree. I interpret it as Clint believed Holly was already dead. Couple that with Karen’s level of grief at the family’s initial press conference, it seems her reaction was of a mother who believed her child not only missing, but deceased.

jmo

Frogzilla
05-30-2012, 05:19 PM
This is just IMO, but I think HB was abducted and i'm willing to bet that CB was to scared to intervene (like a child hiding under their bed when their parents argue, thinking it will be okay as long as they are under there). It is hard for me to reconcile the dragging suddenly morphing into forcefully led, which is countered with CB saying they casually walked into the forest.
I still think about the assumed 1st conversation KB and CB must of had (mostly based from JVM interview)-
CB- HB car is here mom, shouldn't she be gone?
KB- Yes, do you see her there still?
CB- No, but I see/saw silhouettes in the garage, should anyone else be here?
KB- Is she there or not?
CB- I don't know, but i'm going to hang up and look out this window for awhile.

Mysterylover
05-30-2012, 06:25 PM
I agree.

I interpret it as Clint believed Holly was already dead.

Couple that with Karen’s level of grief at the family’s initial press conference,
it seems her reaction was of a mother who believed her child not only missing, but deceased.

jmo

wishuwerehere, K's reaction at school had to be because of what was told to her by Clint on the phone....something really, really bad that took place....:please:
certainly not what we were led to believe..@ D (believe..@ D). and H. casually walking in the yard...imo

Mysterylover
05-30-2012, 06:28 PM
I agree.
I interpret it as Clint believed Holly was already dead.
Couple that with Karen’s level of grief at the family’s initial press conference,
it seems her reaction was of a mother who believed her child not only missing, but deceased.

jmo

Forgot to ad, 'actions speak louder than words'....most of the time.

deca
05-30-2012, 07:11 PM
Clint saw the perp and said he was wearing FULL turkey gear. Clint also said he thought it was Drew. What if it was? Darn sure they know who would be wearing FULL turkey gear on their own property. Turkey camo is very distinctive...and unlike regular camo.

.....where is Drew? Did he fall off the face of the earth?

I think I have read most of the threads of the past year. Has Drew or the cousin or uncle (or whoever was involved in the turkey hunting incident) even made clear what happened that morning from their perspective? It seems extremely vague to me-- just that there was some miscommunication about who was allowed to hunt, some phone calls back and forth...This seems to be something that should be totally out in the open- I am sure LE has looked into it, but it seems totally logical to me that one of those players could have come by to talk to Holly. They weren't THAT far away, were they?

wishuwerehere
05-30-2012, 08:28 PM
I’ve been reading on the Holly Bobo thread for almost a year now and I have composed the following list of excuses that other posters (as well as myself) have made for Clint:

Sleepy
Scared
Confused
Mistaken
Slow
Naked
Mama’s boy
Threatened
Nearsighted
Country bumpkin
Hung over
Stoned
Timid
Hard of hearing
Third wheel
Eavesdropper
(I'm sure there are more excuses, but I can't remember them all.)

nosyone
05-30-2012, 08:50 PM
I seem to remember reading, more than once, that the tracking dogs did not pick up Holly's scent even at the edge of the woods. Can anyone confirm reading that as well?

Frogzilla
05-30-2012, 10:16 PM
I seem to remember reading, more than once, that the tracking dogs did not pick up Holly's scent even at the edge of the woods. Can anyone confirm reading that as well?
I believe that came from Mark Fuhrman early on and he said he got it from a dispatcher.
The rumor mill has her going through the woods and the scent stopping in an area accessible to a road. Just like every other part of the story, there are two versions and you can just pick which one you like as you move through it.

Carla Lashelle
05-31-2012, 08:42 AM
I seem to remember reading, more than once, that the tracking dogs did not pick up Holly's scent even at the edge of the woods. Can anyone confirm reading that as well?

This was a muddled statement made by Mark Fuhrman on the NG or JVM show early on. His quote was something like "I called Tennessee and they said..." . So he called a state? It is not a statement that holds a lot of weight. And there could be a logical explaination, even if it were true... like the suspect had a vehicle parked there (not hard to do based on photos).

Carla Lashelle
05-31-2012, 08:43 AM
I think I have read most of the threads of the past year. Has Drew or the cousin or uncle (or whoever was involved in the turkey hunting incident) even made clear what happened that morning from their perspective? It seems extremely vague to me-- just that there was some miscommunication about who was allowed to hunt, some phone calls back and forth...This seems to be something that should be totally out in the open- I am sure LE has looked into it, but it seems totally logical to me that one of those players could have come by to talk to Holly. They weren't THAT far away, were they?

No... no comments from anyone except the relative few from the Karen, Clint and to a lesser extent, Dana.

cluciano63
05-31-2012, 04:08 PM
No... no comments from anyone except the relative few from the Karen, Clint and to a lesser extent, Dana.

I feel like :seeya: hey family-we are here and desperate for news and info about Holly...how can we help?

But I don't think anyone would answer...

wfgodot
05-31-2012, 05:22 PM
If a clue fell in a forest and there was no one in the immediate vicinity to hear it when it happened, would TBI move a muscle?

dejavoodoo64
05-31-2012, 06:54 PM
This is the case that got me hooked on missing persons cases. Its not too far away from home and due to tornadoes we only had cell phones for getting online. Every day and night I searched for info on her. My first impression was no way this happened this way, it had to be a hoax. Then I wondered through all the different theories like boyfriends, ex's, drug/gambling, sex slavery and human trafficking. Now over a year later I'm back to no way this happened this way. * Interesting enough though there was the case of the guy who was friends with Prince Andrew I think that lived in Florida and imported girls for him and his friends. Paid people to bring them to him. I wish I could remember his name, but I do remember that either wasn't prosecuted or found not guilty. Seems like he was a billionaire also. Just disgusting behavior and no consequences. I didn't mean to ramble on, the point being I guess something like that is possible, but I dang if I can believe it in this case.

*I'm gonna research that and post it. Hate to leave it hanging there without more of a reference.

Ok found it. Jeffrey Epstein and he did do 13 months on what they could get him for.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/02/25/jeffrey-epstein-im-not-a-_n_828389.html

Disgusted
05-31-2012, 10:49 PM
Someone correct me if I'm wrong but IIRC, the case stalled when her cellphone was allegedly found (around Easter ??). I think that is when searches stopped and we hadn't heard anything from LE since then.

Lets look at that for a moment. Supposing it is true that the finding of evidence based on a tip that day is what stopped searches and LE statements, try this on for size:

Perhaps the tip that day was not "hey theres a phone laying in the road", but perhaps the tip was more like this: "hey i just saw ______________ (insert name) throwing something out of their car window while driving. i thought it was odd considering the missing persons case."

Perhaps law enforcement knows who put the phone there, or whatever it was that was found that day. Maybe there was a witness to it being discarded, who provided the tip.

If that were the case, who could be the person(s) dumping the evidence that would cause LE to stop searches and stop making statements?

Just my opinions based on a theory I'm working on that perhaps the game changer on that day was not the evidence that was found, but who put it there.

dejavoodoo64
06-01-2012, 10:00 PM
Lets look at that for a moment. Supposing it is true that the finding of evidence based on a tip that day is what stopped searches and LE statements, try this on for size:

Perhaps the tip that day was not "hey theres a phone laying in the road", but perhaps the tip was more like this: "hey i just saw ______________ (insert name) throwing something out of their car window while driving. i thought it was odd considering the missing persons case."

Perhaps law enforcement knows who put the phone there, or whatever it was that was found that day. Maybe there was a witness to it being discarded, who provided the tip.

If that were the case, who could be the person(s) dumping the evidence that would cause LE to stop searches and stop making statements?

Just my opinions based on a theory I'm working on that perhaps the game changer on that day was not the evidence that was found, but who put it there.

I think that is an excellent theory and it would explain a lot to me. It might just be that the Holly left. Maybe she didn't want to get married to Drew and started seeing someone else and Mom most likely objected. Maybe car wasn't in her name so she couldn't take it and left with someone else. It would also explain why Drew hasn't been to any of the vigils or asking for help in finding her. He knows and was probably deeply hurt and would probably be embarassed if the truth came out. That may be the part of the story we don't know when Karen and I think Whitney said not to blame Clint because the public didn't know the whole story. Might explain the Sheriffs saying all is not as it appears also. It probably explains more, but I've been following the Michey Shunick case so long I can't think straight right now. LOL.JMO

CocoChanel
06-02-2012, 01:59 PM
I think that is an excellent theory and it would explain a lot to me. It might just be that the Holly left. Maybe she didn't want to get married to Drew and started seeing someone else and Mom most likely objected. Maybe car wasn't in her name so she couldn't take it and left with someone else. It would also explain why Drew hasn't been to any of the vigils or asking for help in finding her. He knows and was probably deeply hurt and would probably be embarassed if the truth came out. That may be the part of the story we don't know when Karen and I think Whitney said not to blame Clint because the public didn't know the whole story. Might explain the Sheriffs saying all is not as it appears also. It probably explains more, but I've been following the Michey Shunick case so long I can't think straight right now. LOL.JMO

And it would expain the radio guy making a statement on his FB page claiming that Holly is alive, but then nothing further afterward. There is discussion about this in the Basement.

charminglane
06-02-2012, 03:53 PM
It could also have been the reason behind her Mother saying that the donations would go to a "trip" for Holly when she comes home.
Bribery for coming back.

dejavoodoo64
06-02-2012, 09:03 PM
And it would expain the radio guy making a statement on his FB page claiming that Holly is alive, but then nothing further afterward. There is discussion about this in the Basement.

Oooh, yeah thats good right there. Maybe family almost had it worked out and then it fell apart. :rocker: I don't know what the Basement is, but I'm gonna look for it.

dejavoodoo64
06-02-2012, 09:10 PM
It could also have been the reason behind her Mother saying that the donations would go to a "trip" for Holly when she comes home.
Bribery for coming back.

Oh wow that's good to. :woohoo: Now if we are on to something here, given the publicity of this case, how has Holly hid or disguised herself all this time. That would be incredible to me. Just assume a new identity? or does that bring us back to witness protection? I'm reluctant with that path, but I guess it does open it up again. Anybody agree? Thoughts on this?

~n/t~
06-03-2012, 10:33 AM
It's as good a theory as any but I wish we had absolute confirmation from LE or her family that she did run off. I would hate for people to stop looking for Holly based on that theory alone.

Remember the FBI still has her listed as Kidnapped so we have to be careful with jumping to any kind of conclusion about voluntary disappearance.

My theory about the possible cellphone being found and searches stalled around that time is there may have been information discovered on the phone itself. I'm going to go with the theory that the alleged "flurry" of phone calls involved another person in the mix. One we may not have been privy to.

JMO

cluciano63
06-03-2012, 11:12 AM
Why would there be blood and a scream if Holly was simply "eloping"
Wouldn't she want to get away as quickly and quietly as possible and have her absence not even be noted by her family until much later in the day?

I do not believe this at all, but that is JMO.

I do think it is possible her mother believed something like this, at least for a time, or wanted to believe it.

wfgodot
06-03-2012, 11:38 AM
+1.
..

dejavoodoo64
06-03-2012, 08:44 PM
Why would there be blood and a scream if Holly was simply "eloping"
Wouldn't she want to get away as quickly and quietly as possible and have her absence not even be noted by her family until much later in the day?

I do not believe this at all, but that is JMO.

I do think it is possible her mother believed something like this, at least for a time, or wanted to believe it.

The only theory I have on that is to make it look like an abduction. That way it didn't appear that she ran away from family, Drew and her nursing career. With her car there when she should have been at school it wasn't gonna be long before her family knew she was missing. That is if she knew Clint was there at all, since he wasn't suppose to be there that morning. I think if you are gonna pull a hoax, home would be where to do it. Too many people at school to try it. I think it was reported she was up very early studying. I wonder if she was studying or readying herself to run away. JMO

Disgusted
06-03-2012, 10:41 PM
Interesting resonses to my theory. It seems some of you thought I was suggesting Holly had run away and her family was helping her. That was not at all what I meant.

Whisperer
06-04-2012, 02:47 AM
Whisperer, Per grandmother, in love and talking marriage, spending every night together for the last yr...
and not one word of concern from this guy for over a yr. for the love of his life who's missing....Hmmmmm!...
and yet, it was so urgent/important to make so many calls about turkey hunting the morning H. went missing...Hmmmm!..imo

Yep! No sign of Drew. Perhaps he is missing also.

Ok, I officially believe this family is whacko and if Holly found a means to get away from them, more power to her.

We know Drew was hunting turkeys (according to Karen) and we know Clint saw somebody in full turkey gear talkiing to his sister. How hard is this?

Are we all going to assume a stranger appeared on her property wearing Turkey Camo and just happened to talk Holly for a car ride?

I would like to talk to Karen and Drew...they both should make a public appearance. Wouldn't that be interesting? My instincts tell me Karen is covering for somebody. Whether it is Clint, Drew or Dana, I don't know.

Whisperer
06-04-2012, 02:54 AM
.....about the scream? Who heard it? If it was the male neighbor, why didn't he go over and check it out? Why call his mother, FGS? A grown man calling his mother. Clint calling his mommy. WTH?

....my other question is how in the world did a few hundred people get notified that Hollly was missing and all make it over to her property? Clint, meantime, is worried they are going to ruin the crime scene. What is Clint doing? He is sitting in his vehicle writing his narrative, not chasing a car or trying to head off the perp but writing in his car. If I am wrong about this crazy family just put me back on the turnip truck.

Sarahlou
06-04-2012, 04:48 AM
This case makes my head hurt. I no longer have any guesses as to what happened, all I know is it stinks!
I will be peeved if it turned out that Holly had just run away. (although at least that would mean she's alive) I don't believe that though, but who knows.

dejavoodoo64
06-04-2012, 06:27 AM
Interesting resonses to my theory. It seems some of you thought I was suggesting Holly had run away and her family was helping her. That was not at all what I meant.

I don't think her family is helping her. I do think they are covering for her to keep the community from knowing. The family may not of known immediately, but I believe they did when the phone was recovered and the searches stopped. As far as who put it there, perhaps it was someone that Holly was known to have a romantic interest in due to evidence gathered since the beginning of the investigation. Things like texts, phone calls and her computer could have revealed that. When I think about it, things like Hollys blood is easily explained by her nursing classes. How hard would it have been for her to stick herself and draw a little blood? And I agree with Whisperer on the scream, there may have been one, but Clint didn't hear it. I'm only thinking along this line because the abduction doesn't make sense to me. It doesn't seem LE has made any progress and seems to have shut down since the phone or whatever was found due to a tip. I can also see that who placed the cell phone/evidence could of caused the investigation to shut down also. Thats an excellent idea and is an angle that needs exploring also IMO. JMO

dejavoodoo64
06-04-2012, 07:01 AM
Why would there be blood and a scream if Holly was simply "eloping"
Wouldn't she want to get away as quickly and quietly as possible and have her absence not even be noted by her family until much later in the day?

I do not believe this at all, but that is JMO.

I do think it is possible her mother believed something like this, at least for a time, or wanted to believe it.

Well she is a nurse and could of withdrew a little blood and squirted on the carport or wherever it was found. As for the scream, Clint didn't hear it. If Holly screamed further from her home and the neighbor heard it, wouldn't she have been too far away from home, at that point, for Clint to see her walk into the woods with her abductor? I think between the time of the scream and Clint seeing her go into the woods and the reported 911 calls means the perp spent like 15-20 minutes at the home. That doesn't sound like something an abductor would do IMO.

Carla Lashelle
06-04-2012, 08:32 AM
The screams occurred early on in the "incident" not towards the end (I had thought that at first). So its unlikely the suspect took Holly away, she screamed, then they came back to the house where Clint saw them some time after the screams. For whatever reason it is likely Holly screamed out behind the house when she was accosted and Clint (for whatever reason) did not hear it per se although it could have woken him up or contributed to him waking up.

I find the theory of a girl deliberately drawing blood and dribbling it around, screaming, dropping a soda can AND BEING SEEN WALKING OFF WITH A STRANGER to be an odd way to "disappear". And aside from Topix speculation and unfounded rumors there is zero evidence that Holly had any reason to "disappear" or any inclination to. And, again, if Holly voluntarily "disappeared" that does not explain various evidence (unnamed) collected in locations in the area like on the highway in front of Holly's school. There was also that piece of duct tape with blonde hair found on it that was never clarified. If she did disappear, who did she disappear with/to? Since it seems unlikely that any of her friends and family know where she went or went with. I don't see the family hiding or covering this up by quitting their job, dropping out of school, and spending a year looking for Holly if they knew this was a fake abduction. I would assume also that law enforcement would look into things like Holly's bank account (no activity?), log ins to sites like Facebook etc. It seems unlikely that she would leave with just the clothes on her back, leaving her prized car, money, clothes, everything, and then remain totally invisible for over a year.

Most planned disappearances like the Runaway Bride etc. fall apart pretty quick once the cops and FBI get involved. I can't think of any/many that are really successful.

Hatfield
06-04-2012, 12:22 PM
Yep! No sign of Drew. Perhaps he is missing also.

Ok, I officially believe this family is whacko and if Holly found a means to get away from them, more power to her.

We know Drew was hunting turkeys (according to Karen) and we know Clint saw somebody in full turkey gear talkiing to his sister. How hard is this?

Are we all going to assume a stranger appeared on her property wearing Turkey Camo and just happened to talk Holly for a car ride?

I would like to talk to Karen and Drew...they both should make a public appearance. Wouldn't that be interesting? My instincts tell me Karen is covering for somebody. Whether it is Clint, Drew or Dana, I don't know.


JMO + only speculation follows

At this point, this is where I am at as well (highlighted above). Because based on the statements in the Jackson article where there was some sort of "disagreement" over hunting rights, I am leaning towards a theory that goes something like this.......

The first part of the theory is based on a rumor only. The rumor was that supposedly there was a breakup 3 days prior. That rumor is so critical in this theory because, if that rumor was true, then imagine the pain that he had with the breakup. Remember, it was stated they were together every night. So, to me, if that rumor is true, then I am thinking it was being taken very hard, like a total life disaster, like nothing else in the world matters now.

So, back to the theory (assuming rumor is true). I am thinking he arrived to hunt, and when he got confronted, he automatically thought that Holly had called over to the Grams house to purposely not allow him to hunt anymore (after the rumored breakup). Even if Holly never did this, it wouldn't matter, because he would have thought she was behind it. The "flurry of calls" was somebody beginning to freak out about this situation. The article is never clear that he got to hunt that morning, so I am assuming he immediately left and maybe had gone back to confront her and maybe even with the hope of getting back together. But, things went terribly wrong, and there was a skirmish, and maybe she accidentally hit her head on the concrete. I am thinking its possible he even offered her a ride to the hospital, but perhaps she passed away on the way, and then he really freaked out.

There was even a recent incident nearby there where a pastor punched someone, and the person fell and hit their head and died, so people can die by hitting their head on the concrete, as that does happen. This situation may have only been a skirmish and maybe she slipped + fell trying to get away from him or something along those lines.

If something like this occurred, and maybe the person even went to talk with Karen after the fact and admitted to everything and was deeply sorry for what occurred, so then a coverup-of sorts began because they care deeply for him as well, and dont want him getting into any trouble.

I realize this is all speculation, but I could see something like this occurring. His absolute total non-appearance in any interviews or statements just makes no sense to me, except to give more ammunition to this theory.

dejavoodoo64
06-04-2012, 04:05 PM
The screams occurred early on in the "incident" not towards the end (I had thought that at first). So its unlikely the suspect took Holly away, she screamed, then they came back to the house where Clint saw them some time after the screams. For whatever reason it is likely Holly screamed out behind the house when she was accosted and Clint (for whatever reason) did not hear it per se although it could have woken him up or contributed to him waking up.

I find the theory of a girl deliberately drawing blood and dribbling it around, screaming, dropping a soda can AND BEING SEEN WALKING OFF WITH A STRANGER to be an odd way to "disappear". And aside from Topix speculation and unfounded rumors there is zero evidence that Holly had any reason to "disappear" or any inclination to. And, again, if Holly voluntarily "disappeared" that does not explain various evidence (unnamed) collected in locations in the area like on the highway in front of Holly's school. There was also that piece of duct tape with blonde hair found on it that was never clarified. If she did disappear, who did she disappear with/to? Since it seems unlikely that any of her friends and family know where she went or went with. I don't see the family hiding or covering this up by quitting their job, dropping out of school, and spending a year looking for Holly if they knew this was a fake abduction. I would assume also that law enforcement would look into things like Holly's bank account (no activity?), log ins to sites like Facebook etc. It seems unlikely that she would leave with just the clothes on her back, leaving her prized car, money, clothes, everything, and then remain totally invisible for over a year.

Most planned disappearances like the Runaway Bride etc. fall apart pretty quick once the cops and FBI get involved. I can't think of any/many that are really successful.

Thats true that many aren't successful. Its just right now I'm not so sure she didn't disappear on her own, even though it's hard for me to imagine. As far as blood, spilled soda and blonde hair on duct tape, I can imagine going to those links if one really wanted to disappearand it look like an abduction. The same goes for other evidence found. If it really was an abduction would the perp of allowed Holley to carry her books and lunchbox that she could leave behind as evidence? Or if he allowed her to carry them would he let her drop them to leave a trail? As for her car, she is young, so it may not of been in her name and a car would be very traceable. Money means nothing if you ran off with, or to someone who had plenty of money. And lets face it the girl is gorgeous and may have drawn someones attention that had money. Yeah runaway brides stories fall apart when LE can find them and thats not the case here. Family? I think the mother is just crushed and destroyed. Father and brother I'm unsure of. Dad probably has to work for them to live. The brother given his age and still around home probably just does what his mother says. It is unknown what LE knows about this case and what was going on in Hollys life. What was on her computer or her cell phone records or even the 911 calls have not been released. This is about as deep south as I am and family pride runs very deep. Especially in a small community where generation after generation continued to stay in the same area. I'm sure if there were something that was different from the norm the family, especially the mother would not like it known. A family thats big in the church and the mother knows everyone since she taught school for a lot of years would shut down I think. I say that knowing what my community is like, and would be like if such a scandal got out. First it was an abduction, then she just ran away? I doubt Holly could come home if she wanted to. The ridicule and shunning would never end.

Now do I believe every bit of what I've typed? I'm really not sure, but I do believe its possible given how this case shut down. If she ran away LE has can do nothing as she is of age. All they need is verification and that she did so of her own free will. They may of gotten that on Easter or Mothers day(can't remember which) that Karen was relieved and the organized searches stopped. Is the family covering for her at this point? I would say yes based on the interviews and absence at vigils, gatherings and not demanding media keep Hollys name out there. Wearing t-shirts, praying and releasing pink balloons just doesn't do it for me. KWIM?

I know this was way too long and you folks can give me a hard time for it if you want. I will say though that certain life experiences(that won't be explained):cool: allow me to think such things are possible. It may not of happened this way, but I no longer believe she was abducted without being complicent in some way. And all of the above is JMO

*And I don't read Topix. And after seeing a couple of quotes I'm glad I don't.:hills:

Yoda
06-05-2012, 02:39 AM
JMO + only speculation follows

At this point, this is where I am at as well (highlighted above). Because based on the statements in the Jackson article where there was some sort of "disagreement" over hunting rights, I am leaning towards a theory that goes something like this.......

The first part of the theory is based on a rumor only. The rumor was that supposedly there was a breakup 3 days prior. That rumor is so critical in this theory because, if that rumor was true, then imagine the pain that he had with the breakup. Remember, it was stated they were together every night. So, to me, if that rumor is true, then I am thinking it was being taken very hard, like a total life disaster, like nothing else in the world matters now.

So, back to the theory (assuming rumor is true). I am thinking he arrived to hunt, and when he got confronted, he automatically thought that Holly had called over to the Grams house to purposely not allow him to hunt anymore (after the rumored breakup). Even if Holly never did this, it wouldn't matter, because he would have thought she was behind it. The "flurry of calls" was somebody beginning to freak out about this situation. The article is never clear that he got to hunt that morning, so I am assuming he immediately left and maybe had gone back to confront her and maybe even with the hope of getting back together. But, things went terribly wrong, and there was a skirmish, and maybe she accidentally hit her head on the concrete. I am thinking its possible he even offered her a ride to the hospital, but perhaps she passed away on the way, and then he really freaked out.

There was even a recent incident nearby there where a pastor punched someone, and the person fell and hit their head and died, so people can die by hitting their head on the concrete, as that does happen. This situation may have only been a skirmish and maybe she slipped + fell trying to get away from him or something along those lines.

If something like this occurred, and maybe the person even went to talk with Karen after the fact and admitted to everything and was deeply sorry for what occurred, so then a coverup-of sorts began because they care deeply for him as well, and dont want him getting into any trouble.

I realize this is all speculation, but I could see something like this occurring. His absolute total non-appearance in any interviews or statements just makes no sense to me, except to give more ammunition to this theory.

This was similar to my thoughts early on. The calls over permission to hunt on the property stuck out to me. My experience with rural/hunting property owners is they are VERY possessive, even among families.
I hadn't heard the initial rumor of a break up so I thought it might have been a relative (uncle, cousin) that came by ticked off that Holly was giving permission to others to hunt on family land. She possibly sassed him, got smacked, drops of blood, he walked her to the woods to calm her down or give her a talking to over respect. During that walk either he became more violent and hurt her or he made her get into the car to go talk to her mom/grandma/whomever over her letting people hunt on what he thinks is rightfully his or is going to be his property. Then, in the vehicle violence escalates.
This could explain Clint calling Mom- "hey mom uncle so and so is over here talking to holly." Mom has talked to him/holly on the phone during the flurry of calls so knows he is pissed and if he is her blood relative knows he is violent. Maybe on the phone during the calls he threatens "if I see her, or I'll teach her a lesson". So when Clint calls she freaks. This could also explain mom and clint's ever changing vague stories and why dad always has his lips pursed shut and won't speak in recent interviews. They don't want to implicate a family member. Iirc, I thought in one of the versions Clint did say he thought the camo man was a relative?
It also could explain why Drew has been invisible. He knows so and so probably took her but doesn't want to put himself in the situation where he will have to lie to the public. And maybe he feels guilty because he was the reason for the possible altercation.
Then searches stop because of the call on Easter. This could have been the relative perp, or grandma, or other relative who tells Karen to zip it.
LE knows a relative was involved but doesn't have proof and, if I gather correctly for all the posters who don't think highly of the tenn LE, LE thinks "hey, this is a family matter, we'll back off then.".
Whew. If you read all that you are dedicated to this case ;). Of course this is MOO and only explains some of the crazy behavior of the family.

Ps First photo of Drew, tmk, since December,was posted on fb Friday. (On big bro's fb page.)

Clarification- I don't know anything about the relatives or even who was upset about the use of the property. This was just a scenario revolving around the property use calls.

Whisperer
06-05-2012, 03:10 AM
The family kept raising money (lots) but hardly any appearances for the media. The few they did was closely monitored by the Pastor/Sheriff who describes himself as a Spokesperson. This family behaves like they have legal counsel..MO.

Carla Lashelle
06-05-2012, 04:11 PM
The trouble with creating detailed, complicated theories based on unsubstantiated rumors is that they tend to contradict common sense and the few known details in the case.

Hatfield
06-05-2012, 06:44 PM
This was similar to my thoughts early on. The calls over permission to hunt on the property stuck out to me. My experience with rural/hunting property owners is they are VERY possessive, even among families.
I hadn't heard the initial rumor of a break up so I thought it might have been a relative (uncle, cousin) that came by ticked off that Holly was giving permission to others to hunt on family land. She possibly sassed him, got smacked, drops of blood, he walked her to the woods to calm her down or give her a talking to over respect. During that walk either he became more violent and hurt her or he made her get into the car to go talk to her mom/grandma/whomever over her letting people hunt on what he thinks is rightfully his or is going to be his property. Then, in the vehicle violence escalates.
This could explain Clint calling Mom- "hey mom uncle so and so is over here talking to holly." Mom has talked to him/holly on the phone during the flurry of calls so knows he is pissed and if he is her blood relative knows he is violent. Maybe on the phone during the calls he threatens "if I see her, or I'll teach her a lesson". So when Clint calls she freaks. This could also explain mom and clint's ever changing vague stories and why dad always has his lips pursed shut and won't speak in recent interviews. They don't want to implicate a family member. Iirc, I thought in one of the versions Clint did say he thought the camo man was a relative?
It also could explain why Drew has been invisible. He knows so and so probably took her but doesn't want to put himself in the situation where he will have to lie to the public. And maybe he feels guilty because he was the reason for the possible altercation.
Then searches stop because of the call on Easter. This could have been the relative perp, or grandma, or other relative who tells Karen to zip it.
LE knows a relative was involved but doesn't have proof and, if I gather correctly for all the posters who don't think highly of the tenn LE, LE thinks "hey, this is a family matter, we'll back off then.".
Whew. If you read all that you are dedicated to this case ;). Of course this is MOO and only explains some of the crazy behavior of the family.

Ps First photo of Drew, tmk, since December,was posted on fb Friday. (On big bro's fb page.)

Clarification- I don't know anything about the relatives or even who was upset about the use of the property. This was just a scenario revolving around the property use calls.

I appreciate this feedback, as I had not considered a possible upset relative before now. I agree it is possible, and this is basically a close "tangent theory" along the same lines of the one I had, so thanks a bunch for the feedback.

And you are correct, that one of the most recent interviews had C changing his story again to now saying it may have been a "cousin" he saw. That was in some fairly recent interview, but do not remember where it can be referenced.

The quietness + "hush hush" the first few months sure leads one to think they just wanted this to go away, so some form of this theory is definitely possible IMO. Thanks again.

Hippy Chick
06-05-2012, 10:29 PM
I feel like :seeya: hey family-we are here and desperate for news and info about Holly...how can we help?

But I don't think anyone would answer...

IMO they don't want any help they want this to go away. If my child were missing nothing on Gods green earth, not cops, FBI, CIA or the President could make me keep my mouth shut. I would be screaming from the roof tops:banghead:

dejavoodoo64
06-05-2012, 10:50 PM
The trouble with creating detailed, complicated theories based on unsubstantiated rumors is that they tend to contradict common sense and the few known details in the case.

You are absolutely correct. In this case though the only details I have seen released are a lunchbox and the Clint thought he saw his sister being led by her boyfriend into the woods. Then proceeded to put 4 to 6 inches on him and a good 40 to 50 pounds on him in his description. We also have the blood confirmed as Hollys by her father. Everything other than that, to me, is unsubstantiated rumor. I don't believe I posted any unsubstantiated rumor. I am only constructing a way Holly could disappear if she wanted to. Doesn't mean she did. Of course this is aided by how the case has been handled and all the hush hush around it. Above all I believe the case contradicts common sense. That applies to what details we have also. My first reaction was this was a hoax of some sort and after tossing it around for a year, I'm back to hoax. Or a very elaborate kidnapping that has left everyone puzzled, and done in such a way that its almost unbelievable. JMO

OldSteve
06-06-2012, 08:20 PM
The trouble with creating detailed, complicated theories based on unsubstantiated rumors is that they tend to contradict common sense and the few known details in the case.

Excellent point! In fact I'd like to copy it and post on some of the other cases I follow where this very thing is taking place!

Whisperer
06-06-2012, 10:16 PM
Just follow the story about the Darden Pastor who cold-c*cked the father of the bride. You will see how LE works in the Deep South. Pastors and Sheriffs are tight. They keep their communities run the way they want them to run. I bet the church/pastor receives and handles some of the monies collected from this case....and there was a lot of it.

This case reeks of a cover-up. Any LE in the country would be able to figure out this case when they arrive within 10 minutes of a crime and there is an eye witness. Are you kidding me?

dejavoodoo64
06-06-2012, 11:17 PM
Just follow the story about the Darden Pastor who cold-c*cked the father of the bride. You will see how LE works in the Deep South. Pastors and Sheriffs are tight. They keep their communities run the way they want them to run. I bet the church/pastor receives and handles some of the monies collected from this case....and there was a lot of it.

This case reeks of a cover-up. Any LE in the country would be able to figure out this case when they arrive within 10 minutes of a crime and there is an eye witness. Are you kidding me?

Exactly. I don't know what it is for sure, hoax, professional job, cover up, run away or a kidnapping that has had confusing info thrown in on purpose, to deliberately keep the case from being solved. I see my scenario for Holly leaving on her own, without it being known and presented as a kidnapping is not everyones cup of tea. Thats ok, time will tell. However people have disappeared on their own, for their own reasons before. Usually they are found, but sometimes its years later and by accident. It just seems to me that at this point all the possibles and impossibles have been eliminated by LE enforcement as they hold all the cards. As the old saying goes whatever is left, no matter how improbable must be the truth. Or in this case may be the truth. JMO

docwho3
06-07-2012, 03:47 AM
. . .However people have disappeared on their own,
for their own reasons before. Usually they are found, but sometimes its years later. . .
I agree that it does sometimes happen that way and I also believe that this
possibility along with the other possibilities should be considered
until such time as evidence rules it out completely.

I have made a point of paying attention to adult runaway cases and have
come to watch for certain factors to be present. Unfortunately this
case has so little real background released about the missing person
that it has not been possible for me to make any such determination.

For the moment I tend to lean towards her being the victim of a crime
because that is where the little evidence that has been released
seems to point.
Still, I will certainly not sneer at other possibilities and will keep an open
mind to other possibilities so long as evidence permits.

Carla Lashelle
06-07-2012, 08:37 AM
The thing is, going by what has been put out by the FBI, TBI, local LE and the family we know:

Holly was in school, doing well. No known issues or problems
Holly was active in her church and community. Well known. Seemingly well liked.
Holly was in a long time relationship with her BF. No known issues and one of the few quotes from non family members confirms this.
No evidence of any sort of family issues (abuse, etc). Everyone seemed happy. The family did things together as a group.
No known motive for Holly to just vanish. Also would she leave her car, clothes, money etc.? I doubt it.
Law Enforcement reacted to this as an abduction. I doubt that if this was a hoax they would have maintained that status for over a year.
Screams, blood, a suspect being spotted, various evidence being found (and a lot not disclosed) does not indicate a run away, etc. Nor does the initial description of the case as a home invasion.

OldSteve
06-07-2012, 12:16 PM
The thing is, going by what has been put out by the FBI, TBI, local LE and the family we know:

Holly was in school, doing well. No known issues or problems
Holly was active in her church and community. Well known. Seemingly well liked.
Holly was in a long time relationship with her BF. No known issues and one of the few quotes from non family members confirms this.
No evidence of any sort of family issues (abuse, etc). Everyone seemed happy. The family did things together as a group.
No known motive for Holly to just vanish. Also would she leave her car, clothes, money etc.? I doubt it.
Law Enforcement reacted to this as an abduction. I doubt that if this was a hoax they would have maintained that status for over a year.
Screams, blood, a suspect being spotted, various evidence being found (and a lot not disclosed) does not indicate a run away, etc. Nor does the initial description of the case as a home invasion.

Ergo - Holly was taken by someone local who wants her but knows she is or will not be interested in him, OR Holly was taken by someone who recently saw her and realized he had the opportunity to take her. Because the thug was in turkey camouflage gear, must be local or familiar with customs of area - knowing it was the 1st day of turkey hunting and seemingly using that to advantage...

Eileen730
06-07-2012, 12:21 PM
Ergo - Holly was taken by someone local who wants her but knows she is or will not be interested in him, OR Holly was taken by someone who recently saw her and realized he had the opportunity to take her. Because the thug was in turkey camouflage gear, must be local or familiar with customs of area - knowing it was the 1st day of turkey hunting and seemingly using that to advantage...

I dont think there was a camo man!

wfgodot
06-07-2012, 12:26 PM
Did we finally ever establish that Camo Man was indeed wearing turkey camo?

If there was a Camo Man?

Eileen730
06-07-2012, 12:28 PM
You are absolutely correct. In this case though the only details I have seen released are a lunchbox and the Clint thought he saw his sister being led by her boyfriend into the woods. Then proceeded to put 4 to 6 inches on him and a good 40 to 50 pounds on him in his description. We also have the blood confirmed as Hollys by her father. Everything other than that, to me, is unsubstantiated rumor. I don't believe I posted any unsubstantiated rumor. I am only constructing a way Holly could disappear if she wanted to. Doesn't mean she did. Of course this is aided by how the case has been handled and all the hush hush around it. Above all I believe the case contradicts common sense. That applies to what details we have also. My first reaction was this was a hoax of some sort and after tossing it around for a year, I'm back to hoax. Or a very elaborate kidnapping that has left everyone puzzled, and done in such a way that its almost unbelievable. JMO

I agree with you!
I think its a cover up!
I dont believe any of the versions of the story of what happend!
JMO

Eileen730
06-07-2012, 12:31 PM
Did we finally ever establish that Camo Man was indeed wearing turkey camo?

If there was a Camo Man?

I dont think it was ever said!

Why no Equisearch?
Or Marc Klass?

Eileen730
06-07-2012, 12:35 PM
I do hope they find this young woman and i hope the truth comes out.
This is the strangest missing persons case i have ever followed.
There is this HUGE reward yet no one is looking for her nor has been for quite a long time!

JMO

nursebeeme
06-07-2012, 12:36 PM
I thought the brother said that he initially thought it was the boyfriend because he had turkey cammo on?
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Also: gentle reminder that we are NOT sleuthing the brother.

Eileen730
06-07-2012, 12:48 PM
I thought the brother said that he initially thought it was the boyfriend because he had turkey cammo on?
---------


Also: gentle reminder that we are NOT sleuthing the brother.

LOL i know i never mentioned bro lol!

I think he thought it was the BF because she was walking off with him!
but then didnt he say he thought it was his cousin?
I dont know,,,, i try to stay away from this case lol

Frogzilla
06-07-2012, 03:26 PM
When you look at the statement of known facts that Carla posted and weigh that against how desolate the area is she lived in, she was as low risk a victim as you could find, but an extremely high risk victim to any local predators who knew her situation in life. This was a PLANNED attack on her property, on a Wednesday morning (one of the two days during the week she attended classes and left home at 7:40AM~), in the middle of nowhere, by a man in full camoflauge clothing, in no hurry to abduct her, partially witnessed by her brother when he was not usually home, blood found where her brother saw silhouettes kneeling in the garage and she is escorted off the property towards the woods within a couple minutes of CB seeing figures in the garage. How many people could navigate the woods on her property and disappear within minutes of LE being on the scene? The suspect list in this case was very short and is probably very, very small right now. This case has been bogged down for over a year now with NOTHING new, it's a stalemate.
The 250k reward is also very misleading, I believe 25k was what was originally offered, 5k from local LE, 50k from governor and the 170k that was later added is questionable because it has no obvious backing behind it (anonymous donor and no bank account affiliated with it), MSM didn't even bother to report on it. This case could of used the media in the worst way to progress it, but everyone seems fine with it being handled behind closed doors and it is leading nowhere.

Chili Fries
06-07-2012, 05:04 PM
LOL i know i never mentioned bro lol!

I think he thought it was the BF because she was walking off with him!
but then didnt he say he thought it was his cousin?
I dont know,,,, i try to stay away from this case lol

The cousin was only mentioned by John Walsh on America's Most Wanted and AMW gets stuff wrong all the time. For example, just last week they showed a picture of the wrong truck when doing an update on Mickey Shunick. Instead of showing the picture of the truck that LE needs to ID, AMW showed a picture of the truck that was already cleared. And just the week before they got the route that Mickey had probably ridden home wrong. I wouldn't put any stock in the cousin being mentioned by Clint unless we hear it come out of Clint's mouth.