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paris_paris
05-11-2012, 06:33 PM
Did anybody notice how Rafferty was holding his hands towards the end of the interview with the police after his arrest in this video on May 20, 2009? Around the 45 minute mark on the video.

Just passing time waiting for the guilty verdict on all charges.

http://www.lfpress.com/news/london/raffertytrial/2012/05/10/19743241.html

Not sure what you think is wrong with his hands... fingers crossed, thumbs pressed together.

Couple of things said in the video that stood out. He was asked if he blamed TLM because she grabbed a child that was too old... one who could tell the police what they looked like and describe his car.

Other thing mentioned was Tori met TLM, was friendly, thought TLM was nice. Until they got to the car and TLM opened the back door and Tori thought she wasn't so nice any more.

I think when this is over I'll take a big break from it. I wish it was done because I can't seem to stop myself from reading articles, watching videos, repeating the stories to anyone who will listen...

Wondergirl
05-11-2012, 06:34 PM
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=22202&stc=1&d=1336775427

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=22203&stc=1&d=1336775560

http://www.therecord.com/news/canada/article/723002--jury-in-rafferty-trial-asks-judge-for-definition-of-sexual-assault

Jezbel
05-11-2012, 06:35 PM
Okay, now this is absolutely bizarre !!! One of my chores was to go outside to do poo patrol. People give me plastic bags as I go through a lot of them. I grabbed a bag to line the bucket (it is from a liquor store in Vancouver where i do not live). As i shook the bag to open it, what do i find in the bottom of the bag .... a purple balloon !!! I have never had a purple balloon in my house in my lifetime that I am aware of.

I'm not a big believer in signs either, that is bizarre, it means something good :)

I have been seeing butterflies fluttering around my house the past couple of days and just now two landed on my porch. I sure hope with all the good vibes And prayers people are sending it helps true jury come to the right decision.

Heading out soon for a few days visiting family, so will not get to see MR break down when the verdict is read out, oh well I know he is going to cry in his prisoner box, bye bye Rafferty may you rot in your dingy little cell.
Must DL twitter on my phone so I can keep up if anything happens.

Wondergirl
05-11-2012, 06:35 PM
I am either tired or not as swift as I thought, because, this "clarification" from the Judge is confusing as hell.

Anyone want to indulge and translate to common person speak? (Seriously, Judge Heeney??)


At the request of jurors, Heeney also issued a clarification of his final instructions, telling them, “If you totally reject evidence that points to innocence, meaning you neither believe it nor does it even leave you with a reasonable doubt, that does not amount to affirmative evidence of guilt.

http://www.therecord.com/news/canada/article/723002--jury-in-rafferty-trial-asks-judge-for-definition-of-sexual-assault

mofo75ca
05-11-2012, 06:36 PM
Thanks for the welcome. I have a 2 year old daughter and this whole thing makes me so sick. I really don't know if I can deal with anything less than guilty of 1st degree. I SO hope Det. Smyth gets to wave goodbye to MR just like he said 3 years ago! Justice for Tori MUST be had!!

elepher50
05-11-2012, 06:36 PM
Not sure what you think is wrong with his hands... fingers crossed, thumbs pressed together.

Couple of things said in the video that stood out. He was asked if he blamed TLM because she grabbed a child that was too old... one who could tell the police what they looked like and describe his car.

Other thing mentioned was Tori met TLM, was friendly, thought TLM was nice. Until they got to the car and TLM opened the back door and Tori thought she wasn't so nice any more.

I think when this is over I'll take a big break from it. I wish it was done because I can't seem to stop myself from reading articles, watching videos, repeating the stories to anyone who will listen...

Just simply body language ... forefingers pointed upwards and palms in towards his body usually indicates defiance and contempt I think. MOO is that Rafferty thought he was too smart to get caught.

Thinkzerz
05-11-2012, 06:38 PM
What a beautiful bracelet.

snoofer
05-11-2012, 06:39 PM
Did anybody notice how Rafferty was holding his hands towards the end of the interview with the police after his arrest in this video on May 20, 2009? Around the 45 minute mark on the video.

Just passing time waiting for the guilty verdict on all charges.

http://www.lfpress.com/news/london/raffertytrial/2012/05/10/19743241.html

you mean having them clasped tightly and not moving???

elepher50
05-11-2012, 06:41 PM
you mean having them clasped tightly and not moving???

That and the positioning of hands/palms and forefingers. Defiance and contempt imo.

Wondergirl
05-11-2012, 06:42 PM
I hope so elepher. I'm a pretty steely old coot, and can usually steel myself against a lot of things. But earlier this afternoon, I said one of the biggest prayers of my life for the right verdict for Tori ... both the butterflies and balloon happened afterwards. I can't stop crying and I just feel overwhelmed.

http://images.fineartamerica.com/images-medium-large/when-i-die-do-not-stand-at-my-grave-and-weep-sherri-of-palm-springs.jpg

TopTop
05-11-2012, 06:42 PM
I made and ate supper since 5:30...c'mon....

elepher50
05-11-2012, 06:44 PM
I am either tired or not as swift as I thought, because, this "clarification" from the Judge is confusing as hell.

Anyone want to indulge and translate to common person speak? (Seriously, Judge Heeney??)

My interpretation: Just because you think Rafferty is not entirely innocent it does not mean that he is automatically guilty.

Really Judge Heeney ... stop the double speak!

Heliotrope
05-11-2012, 06:44 PM
I am either tired or not as swift as I thought, because, this "clarification" from the Judge is confusing as hell.

Anyone want to indulge and translate to common person speak? (Seriously, Judge Heeney??)

I read it as "If you don't believe TLM's confession that she was the one that actually committed the murder, that cannot be automatically interpreted to mean Rafferty committed the murder."

This I don't like. I hope I'm wrong. After all, there was no one else there - who else could have done it?

ETA - I've been known to be a bit Eeyore-ish from time to time. I'm almost certainly wrong.

Peekaboo10
05-11-2012, 06:45 PM
Rafferty on 'pins and needles'
http://www.lfpress.com/news/london/raffertytrial/2012/05/11/19746896.html (http://www.lfpress.com/news/london/raffertytrial/2012/05/11/19746896.html)

I hope those pins hurt like a son of a biatch!

Now that I am caught up, I can tell you I drove by the court house after my Dr's appointment, it was hard to get a good look at what was going on with Dundas being closed due to construction... I was able to see a few people on the front steps, likely family? Seen some purple clothing.

16 more minutes until 7:00... I sure hope there is a verdict shortly after *crossing fingers*

swedie
05-11-2012, 06:47 PM
Originally Posted by Confusedashell
Well now that everything of MRs past is out of the closet I am going to come out as well. I am one of the victims of MR. I was one of the women on the stand. This is one of the hardest things I have ever had to do. Reading all that stuff about him last night made me sick as I am sure it did everyone who read it. I at the time we dated had a little girl 3 years of age. I am so very thankful that neither of us were hurt in anyway. I pray for little Tori and hope to god for justice for her and her family. Through this I have become quite close with Tara. She is such a great lady. She has been amazing and I truly commend her for her strength.

Dear Confused I am so so sorry to hear you were a victim of MR. Wow am I thankful everything turned out ok and you and your daughter where not harmed. What a shocker. Keep your chin up Dear and pray for justice for sweet Tori and justice for all the little children that this demon doesn't get out to cause anymore despair and grief in anyone's life ever again. Hugs to you, stay strong. moo

crazyladi
05-11-2012, 06:48 PM
Omg I hope they come to a verdict soon, hubby wants alone time since my mother has her tonight and he doesn't understand how important today and tomorrow is....sigh... We got into a fight in the car about it. I need to be here it's been three years but I feel guilty argh!!! I should have stayed single lololol

matou
05-11-2012, 06:48 PM
HOLD UP!

@RaffertyLFP (https://twitter.com/#%21/RaffertyLFP) Jury has another question.

sillybilly
05-11-2012, 06:49 PM
Tweeted 1 minute ago?? !!

London Free Press‏@RaffertyLFP

Jury has another question.

Peekaboo10
05-11-2012, 06:49 PM
Jury has another question according to @RaffertyLFP (https://twitter.com/#%21/RaffertyLFP)

sillybilly
05-11-2012, 06:50 PM
WTH? Were we just TOLD they went for dinner while they continued deliberations or have they returned and resumed.

matou
05-11-2012, 06:50 PM
@cbcsteve (https://twitter.com/#%21/cbcsteve) #Rafferty (https://twitter.com/#%21/search/%23Rafferty) jury coming back with another question

Wondergirl
05-11-2012, 06:51 PM
Bring it, Jury!

Questions are good (aren't they eating?)

matou
05-11-2012, 06:51 PM
I think they had a short dinner. Makes me think they are really working hard to push through this. JMO

Wondergirl
05-11-2012, 06:52 PM
I think they had a short dinner. Makes me think they are really working hard to push through this. JMO

I agree, verdict coming peeps!!!

Nurse, get the heck back here!

TopTop
05-11-2012, 06:52 PM
Aren't they eating? Is it another false alarm?

Sailor Bug
05-11-2012, 06:53 PM
The jury in the Michael #Rafferty trial has another question. Court is resuming in a few minutes #ToriStafford

jury is back from dinner and has another question for the judge. @CTVKitchener

Former mayor of Woodstock, Ontario talks about how city is coping after #ToriStafford's murder: http://ow.ly/aRoId - via @globaltvnews

Jury has another question. Fourth in the first full day of deliberations.

TopTop
05-11-2012, 06:55 PM
AM980.ca ‏ @AM980_Court
The jury returned from dinner early. Question was brought up then. Waiting for lawyers to return.

matou
05-11-2012, 06:55 PM
‏ @cristina_CHCHTV (https://twitter.com/#%21/cristina_CHCHTV) #Rafferty (https://twitter.com/#%21/search/%23Rafferty)'s lawyer says crimes against kids are serious and should be dealt with severely


I absolutely agree. JMO

flipflop
05-11-2012, 06:55 PM
AM980.ca ‏ @AM980_Court
The jury returned from dinner early. Question was brought up then. Waiting for lawyers to return.

TopTop
05-11-2012, 06:56 PM
Mark Carcasole ‏ @MarkCarc1010
@LibArtsAndMinds: they're still not back yet. We've just been told early.

swedie
05-11-2012, 06:57 PM
I don't know if this video has been posted in the past but I want to remind everyone either way; there are decent, loving, caring, kind people out there. Tori's tragic death has touch so many people in so many ways. May Tori's spirit live on and on forever! MOO

What a Sweetheart Krystin is! You rock little girl!

Remembering Tori Stafford "My Way" - YouTube

swedie
05-11-2012, 06:59 PM
Maybe they didn't need or want the whole hour and a half break for dinner. Right back at 'er, get 'em done lol. They mean business. MOO


WTH? Were we just TOLD they went for dinner while they continued deliberations or have they returned and resumed.

myzzy
05-11-2012, 07:00 PM
Got my song ready for the GUILTY verdict!

Shania Twain - Up! (Green Version) - YouTube

I think dancing in my socks will be just what we need!

robynhood
05-11-2012, 07:00 PM
AveryFreeFMNews Jury has yet another question. 4th one today. Back to the court room. #Rafferty


Cp24 news said they felt jury took a short dinner and news broadcast thought they are working VERY hard... Jury he said are going thru judges questions thoroughly ...one by one.... going thru what judge advised them to do....robynhood

Oldsoul2
05-11-2012, 07:01 PM
Omg I hope they come to a verdict soon, hubby wants alone time since my mother has her tonight and he doesn't understand how important today and tomorrow is....sigh... We got into a fight in the car about it. I need to be here it's been three years but I feel guilty argh!!! I should have stayed single lololol

OMG! LOL...You are too funny, I let out a roaring laugh...I know how you feel sometimes...

snoofer
05-11-2012, 07:02 PM
the jurors who had their verdict in the first 5 mins must be feeling antsy in there! MOO

yes crazilady my husband is feeling same, he just walked by my laptop and closed it while I was using it. Pffftt...he has given up and is playing NHL on playstation. ;O)

myzzy
05-11-2012, 07:05 PM
I don't know if this video has been posted in the past but I want to remind everyone either way; there are decent, loving, caring, kind people out there. Tori's tragic death has touch so many people in so many ways. May Tori's spirit live on and on forever! MOO

What a Sweetheart Krystin is! You rock little girl!


Thanks for making me cry again!

robynhood
05-11-2012, 07:06 PM
...live coverage from Cp24 on right now...7;03 Toronto time showing woodstock coverage too ...court room has all lawyers in court to answer question#4 from Jury !...also coverage on cp24 internet ...once verdict is in lots of coverage from mayor of woodstock...etc...no one has any idea when verdict will be in...IMO..omg robynhood

Wondergirl
05-11-2012, 07:06 PM
Omg I hope they come to a verdict soon, hubby wants alone time since my mother has her tonight and he doesn't understand how important today and tomorrow is....sigh... We got into a fight in the car about it. I need to be here it's been three years but I feel guilty argh!!! I should have stayed single lololol

LMAO

Tell Hubby to go out with the boys! Git......

sillybilly
05-11-2012, 07:07 PM
AM980.ca‏@AM980_Court

Rafferty is in the courtroom now

flipflop
05-11-2012, 07:07 PM
AM980.ca ‏ @AM980_Court
Rafferty is in the courtroom now.

elepher50
05-11-2012, 07:07 PM
Another question - hopefully no double speak from the Judge. I just want this over and in the right way. Waiting for justice for Tori.

robynhood
05-11-2012, 07:08 PM
AM980_Court Rafferty is in the courtroom now.

anyone clarify that ????...

snoofer
05-11-2012, 07:08 PM
AM980.ca‏@AM980_Court

Rafferty is in the courtroom now

insert "rolling eyes"

just kidding, and I will NEVER EVER roll my eyes in my whole life from here on in....

I can hear parents now..."don't you dare roll your eyes"!!

Wondergirl
05-11-2012, 07:08 PM
the jurors who had their verdict in the first 5 mins must be feeling antsy in there! MOO

yes crazilady my husband is feeling same, he just walked by my laptop and closed it while I was using it. Pffftt...he has given up and is playing NHL on playstation. ;O)


Git.....to him too! lol

Shew!

How about this (at midnight last night), "what in the hell are you typing about now?" LMAO

matou
05-11-2012, 07:08 PM
@RaffertyLFP (https://twitter.com/#%21/RaffertyLFP) Media back in court. Jury not in. Rafferty putting on his tie.

Bravo
05-11-2012, 07:08 PM
Short dinner. I think they are forging thru. God Bless them.

sillybilly
05-11-2012, 07:09 PM
London Free Press‏@RaffertyLFP

Media back in court. Jury not in. Rafferty putting on his tie

TopTop
05-11-2012, 07:09 PM
London Free Press ‏ @RaffertyLFP
Media back in court. Jury not in. Rafferty putting on his tie.

I hope he puts it on too tight...

snoofer
05-11-2012, 07:10 PM
London Free Press‏@RaffertyLFP

Media back in court. Jury not in. Rafferty putting on his tie

rolling eyes to me is saying..I am tired of listening to you....I have no respect for you. MOO

matou
05-11-2012, 07:10 PM
‏ @RaffertyLFP (https://twitter.com/#%21/RaffertyLFP) Judge back in court.

sillybilly
05-11-2012, 07:10 PM
London Free Press‏@RaffertyLFP

Judge back in court.

TopTop
05-11-2012, 07:11 PM
London Free Press ‏ @RaffertyLFP
Judge back in court.

matou
05-11-2012, 07:11 PM
@RaffertyLFP (https://twitter.com/#%21/RaffertyLFP) Question about sexual assault law.

TopTop
05-11-2012, 07:12 PM
AM980.ca ‏ @AM980_Court
The question is: Does removal of a child's clothing in an unlawful confinement situation constitute sexual assault causing bodily harm?

sillybilly
05-11-2012, 07:12 PM
London Free Press‏@RaffertyLFP

Question about sexual assault law.

Oldsoul2
05-11-2012, 07:12 PM
[QUOTE=TopTop;7906593]London Free Press ‏ @RaffertyLFP
Media back in court. Jury not in. Rafferty putting on his tie.

I hope he puts it on too tight...[/QUOTE

LOL.....I thought that he only comes in when they reach a verdict? He's putting on his tie??

Dmman
05-11-2012, 07:12 PM
If I sign up for a twitter account, that's where I'll find all these updates too?

Sailor Bug
05-11-2012, 07:12 PM
Jury has asked another question about sexual assault.

Jury is asking for clarification of what elements constitute sexual assault causing bodily harm #Rafferty #ToriStafford

Jury has asked another question in regards to the law surrounding sexual assault causing bodily harm.

The question is: Does removal of a child's clothing in an unlawful confinement situation constitute sexual assault causing bodily harm?

Heeney says yes. He will read them a portion of his charge.

Bravo
05-11-2012, 07:12 PM
ROFLMAO Mine just asked what is happening with the trial. So as per usual i launched into my long bravado. Caught myself and shortened it up. Don't want him to stop asking or think I have lost my mind-again. Like during the Anthony trial and verdict.

Oldsoul2
05-11-2012, 07:12 PM
Again with this question!

matou
05-11-2012, 07:13 PM
Oh no. That`s his charge isn`t it?

sillybilly
05-11-2012, 07:13 PM
LOL ... seems it takes my tweets a few seconds more to arrive than you downeasters :)

swedie
05-11-2012, 07:13 PM
LMAO

Tell Hubby to go out with the boys! Git......

Yeah good plan, go meet the boys. Mine has been bugging me for supper lol. I just order pizza :D I can hardly pry my eyes and fingers off my laptop. I did manage to clean one bathroom today.

Ugh, I miss our similes mods. How are we going to do without them when the verdict comes back MR is guilty. I want to set off all kinds of fireworks, ROFLMAO, JAIL, woohoo. Please reconsider Dear MODS and SUE!!! PLEASE!!

crazyladi
05-11-2012, 07:13 PM
I thought that they asked this already

TopTop
05-11-2012, 07:13 PM
[QUOTE=TopTop;7906593]London Free Press ‏ @RaffertyLFP
Media back in court. Jury not in. Rafferty putting on his tie.

I hope he puts it on too tight...[/QUOTE

LOL.....I thought that he only comes in when they reach a verdict? He's putting on his tie??

He's present for all of the questions.

sillybilly
05-11-2012, 07:13 PM
AM980.ca‏@AM980_Court

The question is: Does removal of a child's clothing in an unlawful confinement situation constitute sexual assault causing bodily harm?

Dmman
05-11-2012, 07:13 PM
My grammar & spelling is shot these days, pls forgive :)

robynhood
05-11-2012, 07:13 PM
rolling eyes to me is saying..I am tired of listening to you....I have no respect for you. MOO


I agree 100 perecent ..he has no respect for anyone ...pitful person..imo....robynhood

snoofer
05-11-2012, 07:13 PM
[QUOTE=TopTop;7906593]London Free Press ‏ @RaffertyLFP
Media back in court. Jury not in. Rafferty putting on his tie.

I hope he puts it on too tight...[/QUOTE

LOL.....I thought that he only comes in when they reach a verdict? He's putting on his tie??

that tie is going to start collecting some dust soon enough... MOO

TopTop
05-11-2012, 07:14 PM
AM980.ca ‏ @AM980_Court
Heeney says yes. He will read them a portion of his charge.

For heaven's sake...even the judge is saying he is guilty.

sillybilly
05-11-2012, 07:14 PM
AM980.ca‏@AM980_Court

Heeney says yes. He will read them a portion of his charge.

matou
05-11-2012, 07:14 PM
not the causing bodily harm part. Is that different from just sexual assault?

maxfactor
05-11-2012, 07:14 PM
London Free Press‏@RaffertyLFP

Media back in court. Jury not in. Rafferty putting on his tie

Guess that means they don't let him keep it in the cell.

robynhood
05-11-2012, 07:14 PM
LindaNguyenPN The jury's question is related to what constitutes sexual assault causing bodily harm #ToriStafford

Bravo
05-11-2012, 07:14 PM
[QUOTE=TopTop;7906593]London Free Press ‏ @RaffertyLFP
Media back in court. Jury not in. Rafferty putting on his tie.

I hope he puts it on too tight...[/QUOTE

LOL.....I thought that he only comes in when they reach a verdict? He's putting on his tie??

No he is present for every question.

Sailor Bug
05-11-2012, 07:14 PM
The only difference between this question and the last is the change of "sexual assault" to "sexual assault causing bodily harm"#Rafferty

RT @raffertylfp: Question about sexual assault law.

4th question is similar to jury's 2nd question today, but adds "causing bodily harm" #Rafferty

Derstine asks if they're asking about the accused or another party. He wants a clarification to be made to the jury.

Heeney says they have aiding and abetting instructions already, and do not need more.

taagean
05-11-2012, 07:15 PM
I think they're asking about sexual assault causing bodily harm now.

robynhood
05-11-2012, 07:15 PM
AveryFreeFMNews The only difference between this question and the last is the change of "sexual assault" to "sexual assault causing bodily harm"#Rafferty

matou
05-11-2012, 07:16 PM
OK whew! It`s OK then. He will get the guilty charge for sexual assault IMO.

myzzy
05-11-2012, 07:16 PM
where on the tree would this question fall under? got to go find that tree again

Im not liking them stuck on the same thing I was.

TopTop
05-11-2012, 07:16 PM
AM980.ca ‏ @AM980_Court
Derstine asks if they're asking about the accused or another party. He wants a clarification to be made to the jury.

Oldsoul2
05-11-2012, 07:16 PM
With this question, it's hard for me to believe that they think he raped her, they keep asking about removing her clothes does it mean he is guilty....do they think TLM raped her??? Or she pulled down her pants to kill her?? Come on

crazyladi
05-11-2012, 07:17 PM
Ahhh best thing that can happen in the hubby falls asleep however it's not looking promising lololol

sillybilly
05-11-2012, 07:17 PM
Seems they are struggling with the fine line of removal of clothing constituting sexual assault, but does it in fact cause physical injury?

robynhood
05-11-2012, 07:17 PM
AM980_Court Derstine asks if they're asking about the accused or another party. He wants a clarification to be made to the jury.

IMO ..Omg destine ...one guess who they are talking about....oh wait for destines next darn question...refreshing twiiter!

~n/t~
05-11-2012, 07:18 PM
just got home from work, guess no verdict yet, sheesh and loads of threads to catch up on, oh my

I'll join you. I just got home also. I'm cheating and reading from the last page and moving UP.

sillybilly
05-11-2012, 07:18 PM
AM980.ca‏@AM980_Court

Derstine asks if they're asking about the accused or another party. He wants a clarification to be made to the jury.

Sailor Bug
05-11-2012, 07:18 PM
Judge and lawyers are discussing how best to answer the 4th question from the jury. Derstine raising issues. #Rafferty

Judge says: sex assault cause bodily harm is 1) force applied 2) in a sexual situation 3) causes bodily harm #Rafferty #ToriStafford

TopTop
05-11-2012, 07:18 PM
AM980.ca ‏ @AM980_Court
Heeney says they have aiding and abetting instructions already, and do not need more.
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Allanae
05-11-2012, 07:18 PM
LMAO

Tell Hubby to go out with the boys! Git......
I just gave my husband some gift cards I had to cineplex and told him to go see a movie with a buddy! :-)

maxfactor
05-11-2012, 07:18 PM
OK whew! It`s OK then. He will get the guilty charge for sexual assault IMO.

And that would mean guilty, murder 1 wouldn't it?

sillybilly
05-11-2012, 07:18 PM
AM980.ca‏@AM980_Court

Heeney says they have aiding and abetting instructions already, and do not need more.

Heliotrope
05-11-2012, 07:18 PM
AM980.ca ‏ @AM980_Court
Derstine asks if they're asking about the accused or another party. He wants a clarification to be made to the jury.

I'd like Derstine to sit down and shut up. He doesn't have a right to know what goes on in the deliberation room.

taagean
05-11-2012, 07:18 PM
With this question, it's hard for me to believe that they think he raped her, they keep asking about removing her clothes does it mean he is guilty....do they think TLM raped her??? Or she pulled down her pants to kill her?? Come on

That's what I'm wondering too.

TopTop
05-11-2012, 07:19 PM
[QUOTE=TopTop;7906671][QUOTE=crazyladi;7906652]Ahhh best thing that can happen in the hubby falls asleep however it's not looking promising lololol[/QUOTE

Mine wants to go to Costco!!!! :(

robynhood
05-11-2012, 07:19 PM
LindaNguyenPN The jury wants to know if removing child's underclothing during confinement can result in sexual assault causing bodily harm? #ToriStafford

...jury aswers Derstines question!

Sailor Bug
05-11-2012, 07:19 PM
4th question #rafferty Does removing a child's clothing in an unlawful confinement constitute sexual assault causing bodily harm

The jury wants to know if removing child's underclothing during confinement can result in sexual assault causing bodily harm?

In Heeney's charge, he only gave them the option of sexual assault causing bodily harm, as assaulting a child automatically is upgraded...

elepher50
05-11-2012, 07:19 PM
where on the tree would this question fall under? got to go find that tree again

Im not liking them stuck on the same thing I was.

Link to decision tree (there are 3 of them):

http://www.scribd.com/doc/93170323/Rafferty-Tree03

TopTop
05-11-2012, 07:19 PM
AM980.ca ‏ @AM980_Court
In Heeney's charge, he only gave them the option of sexual assault causing bodily harm, as assaulting a child automatically is upgraded...

sillybilly
05-11-2012, 07:19 PM
London Free Press‏@RaffertyLFP

Question from jury is whether removing a child's clothing during unlawful confinement constitutes sexual assault causing bodily harm.

snoofer
05-11-2012, 07:20 PM
TS was supposed to go home after school that day.

They took her into his car.

She is dead.

Guilty. Full Stop. I cannot understand the problem here. MOO

crazyladi
05-11-2012, 07:20 PM
AM980.ca‏@AM980_Court

Heeney says they have aiding and abetting instructions already, and do not need more.

What does this mean? Is this a bad sign?

robynhood
05-11-2012, 07:20 PM
LindaNguyenPN Justice Heeney and lawyers are debating how he should answer this question to the jury #Rafferty #ToriStafford

Sailor Bug
05-11-2012, 07:20 PM
Jury still not in court as the judge and lawyers are discussing the 4th question

Tori's family is in the overflow room, watching the courtroom on a large tv screen

...If an attempt is made to have intercourse with the child. Jury's question doesn't deal with intercourse, just clothing removal.

sillybilly
05-11-2012, 07:21 PM
AM980.ca‏@AM980_Court

In Heeney's charge, he only gave them the option of sexual assault causing bodily harm, as assaulting a child automatically is upgraded...

SmoothOperator
05-11-2012, 07:21 PM
Sorry to butt in but isn't this the exact question that they asked earlier? Question #2??


____________________...
Posting via mobile as well as via tablet so plz forgive all typos.. Btwn the sucky touch keyboard and the obsessive auto-correct it's a big ol' mess :crazy:

crazyladi
05-11-2012, 07:21 PM
TS was supposed to go home after school that day.

They took her into his car.

She is dead.

Guilty. Full Stop. I cannot understand the problem here. MOO

Tell me about it!!! Gawd

Oldsoul2
05-11-2012, 07:21 PM
Sounds like the judge is getting irritated.....he said go look at the tree again for aiding and abetting.....seriously I'm not even on the jury and I know the whole tree

sillybilly
05-11-2012, 07:21 PM
AM980.ca‏@AM980_Court

...If an attempt is made to have intercourse with the child. Jury's question doesn't deal with intercourse, just clothing removal.

robynhood
05-11-2012, 07:22 PM
AveryFreeFMNews Judge says sexual assault causing bodily harm is when force is applied, the force of a sexual nature and caused bodily harm. #Rafferty

taagean
05-11-2012, 07:22 PM
[QUOTE=TopTop;7906671][QUOTE=crazyladi;7906652]Ahhh best thing that can happen in the hubby falls asleep however it's not looking promising lololol[/QUOTE

Mine wants to go to Costco!!!! :(

Tell him it's too busy on Friday nights, especially with Mother's Day coming up.

Sailor Bug
05-11-2012, 07:22 PM
Judge says sexual assault causing bodily harm is when force is applied, the force of a sexual nature and caused bodily harm. #Rafferty

Judge worries about being asked to decide for them. Says he can re-read the charge and let them decide as triers of the facts

RT @LindaNguyenPN The jury's question is related to what constitutes sexual assault causing bodily harm #ToriStafford #Rafferty

It's interesting that none of the jury's question in the #rafferty trial have nothing to do with Tori's murder.

SFB73
05-11-2012, 07:23 PM
Bodily harm could refer to the crushing of the ribs during the sexual assault, or throwing the child out of the car after the assault.

I feel they strongly think he sexually assaulted TS but are going to go with TLM story as the one who actually murdered Tori

robynhood
05-11-2012, 07:23 PM
RaffertyLFP Heeney says his preference is to tell the jury what the law is and leave it to the jury to decide.

sillybilly
05-11-2012, 07:24 PM
London Free Press‏@RaffertyLFP

Heeney says his preference is to tell the jury what the law is and leave it to the jury to decide.

Bravo
05-11-2012, 07:24 PM
Ahhh best thing that can happen in the hubby falls asleep however it's not looking promising lololol

LOL give him a coupla beers. He will be snoozing in no time LOL Or quality time at 9 p.m. lol

~n/t~
05-11-2012, 07:25 PM
TS was supposed to go home after school that day.

They took her into his car.

She is dead.

Guilty. Full Stop. I cannot understand the problem here. MOO

I don't get it either. What's with all these questions? I think the stupid tree made them even more confused.

Heliotrope
05-11-2012, 07:25 PM
Bodily harm could refer to the crushing of the ribs during the sexual assault, or throwing the child out of the car after the assault.

I feel they strongly think he sexually assaulted TS but are going to go with TLM story as the one who actually murdered Tori

I'm going the other way - I don't think they believed her Jan 12 confession.

2goldfish
05-11-2012, 07:27 PM
Bodily harm could refer to the crushing of the ribs during the sexual assault, or throwing the child out of the car after the assault.

I feel they strongly think he sexually assaulted TS but are going to go with TLM story as the one who actually murdered Tori


with all due respect I hope very much that you are wrong :(

myzzy
05-11-2012, 07:27 PM
Link to decision tree (there are 3 of them):

http://www.scribd.com/doc/93170323/Rafferty-Tree03

thank you i was still searching post by post lol..

If they are stuck on the clothing and if im reading it right they are roughly looking at the 2nd portion of that tree ? manslaughter section?

crazyladi
05-11-2012, 07:27 PM
LOL give him a coupla beers. He will be snoozing in no time LOL Or quality time at 9 p.m. lol

I gave him some wine but not looking good I know what he wants lolol for the love of God lol

Oldsoul2
05-11-2012, 07:27 PM
AveryFreeFMNews Judge says sexual assault causing bodily harm is when force is applied, the force of a sexual nature and caused bodily harm. #Rafferty

IE: Broken ribs, lacerated liver

taagean
05-11-2012, 07:28 PM
Sorry to butt in but isn't this the exact question that they asked earlier? Question #2??


____________________...
Posting via mobile as well as via tablet so plz forgive all typos.. Btwn the sucky touch keyboard and the obsessive auto-correct it's a big ol' mess :crazy:

Not quite the same. They're now asking if removing clothing is sexual assault causing bodily harm. Before, it was does removing clothing constitute sexual assault. I think.

Sailor Bug
05-11-2012, 07:28 PM
Crown asks for 5 minute break to discuss jury question

Crown asks for a few minutes. Court recessed for 5 minutes. Still discussing how to answer jury's 4th question.

crazyladi
05-11-2012, 07:28 PM
thank you i was still searching post by post lol..

If they are stuck on the clothing and if im reading it right they are roughly looking at the 2nd portion of that tree ? manslaughter section?

They friggen better not be!!!! Jmo

sillybilly
05-11-2012, 07:28 PM
London Free Press‏@RaffertyLFP

Court recessed for five minutes.

kmclaren
05-11-2012, 07:30 PM
I don't get it either. What's with all these questions? I think the stupid tree made them even more confused.

This is what I'm thinking... Perhaps most of the jury give a guilty on the sexual assault charge but maybe 1 or 2 of them aren't quite there yet - so these questions are to try and get everyone on the same page??

crazyladi
05-11-2012, 07:30 PM
Thank God my real estate agent is supposed to come by to pick up the girl guide cookies!!! Lol

matou
05-11-2012, 07:30 PM
‏ @RaffertyLFP (https://twitter.com/#%21/RaffertyLFP) Court recessed for five minutes.


Let me guess....Derstine has objected to something..JMO

sillybilly
05-11-2012, 07:31 PM
IMO they seem to want to make sure they get it right ... which makes me think they are leaning towards a Guilty. The good thing is, they don't have to explain to anyone afterward how and why they reached their decision.

~n/t~
05-11-2012, 07:31 PM
Hope the jury knows who is on trial here. :/

taagean
05-11-2012, 07:31 PM
Thank God my real estate agent is supposed to come by to pick up the girl guide cookies!!! Lol

Saved by the bell!!

crazyladi
05-11-2012, 07:31 PM
IMO they seem to want to make sure they get it right ... which makes me think they are leaning towards a Guilty. The good thing is, they don't have to explain to anyone afterward how and why they reached their decision.

Man I hope so!!

Oldsoul2
05-11-2012, 07:32 PM
The judge should tell them to look at the evidence again in regards to the rape and the condition of Toris body

robynhood
05-11-2012, 07:32 PM
RaffertyLFP The difference between this question and an earlier one is this time the jury wants to know if it includes bodily harm or not.

jury has recess as lawyers and Judge decide answer now...jury recess/break

myzzy
05-11-2012, 07:32 PM
They friggen better not be!!!! Jmo

I hope not also!

Everything on my body including my fingers are crossed

Bravo
05-11-2012, 07:34 PM
I gave him some wine but not looking good I know what he wants lolol for the love of God lol

LOL Well ya had an hour window during the dinner hour LOL Go spend time. I'm sure we will still be here when ya get back.

sillybilly
05-11-2012, 07:34 PM
Because it is MTR's trial and they are enquiring about the removal of the clothing wrt sexual assault, what other reason do they think he would be removing the clothing for in the first place?

~n/t~
05-11-2012, 07:34 PM
‏ @RaffertyLFP (https://twitter.com/#%21/RaffertyLFP) Court recessed for five minutes.


Let me guess....Derstine has objected to something..JMO

That or Judge will have to have a talk with the jurors. They seem lost, imo.

Sailor Bug
05-11-2012, 07:35 PM
Def suggests #ToriStafford clothing might have bee removed b/c she wet herself, not for a sexual purpose.

Q was, does removing the child's underclothing during an unlawful confinement constitute sexual assault causing bodily harm.

jury asks if removing a child's clothing in an unlawful confinement constitutes sexual assault causing bodily harm.

Oldsoul2
05-11-2012, 07:35 PM
Sorry but its a very stupid question IMO..if you remove clothing on its own your not causing bodily harm unless your trying to get out of a wired dress....your causing bodily harm when you rape the person after you removed their clothing. What I think they have is someone on that jury who needs to complicate things. They either believe she was raped or they don't.

snoofer
05-11-2012, 07:36 PM
thanks goodness for my blood pressure medication! MOO

wondered a few times, if someone is keeping an eye on RS blood pressure. MOO

For some reason i worry about that for him.

~n/t~
05-11-2012, 07:36 PM
I think what they're trying to do is figure out who did what and that's not their job. Their job is to look at evidence and testimony and figure out if MR is guilty. Not TLM.

Wow. I'm depressed.

Sailor Bug
05-11-2012, 07:37 PM
Lawyers took a break to discuss. Back now.

Judge, and lawyers are back after five minute break

Everyone is back in court after 5 minute break

Carnegie is reviewing law on the issue, and legal definitions of sexual assault. It does NOT require sexual gratification of the perpetrator

robynhood
05-11-2012, 07:38 PM
AM980_Court Lawyers took a break to discuss. Back now.

SFB73
05-11-2012, 07:38 PM
with all due respect I hope very much that you are wrong :(

The only evidence they have as to who killed TS was her confession, If they believe TLM, that also should mean that they will believe the sexual assault allegations against MR. That being said, they would return guilty on both kidnapping and sexual assualt.

Either way, MR won't be going home after the verdict.

sillybilly
05-11-2012, 07:38 PM
London Free Press‏@RaffertyLFP

Court back in session. No jury.

robynhood
05-11-2012, 07:38 PM
AveryFreeFMNews Everyone is back in court after 5 minute break. #Rafferty

matou
05-11-2012, 07:38 PM
There`s full coverage on the National on CBC at 9 pm tonight about the stuff the jury didn`t hear about Rafferty.

crazyladi
05-11-2012, 07:39 PM
I think what they're trying to do is figure out who did what and that's not their job. Their job is to look at evidence and testimony and figure out if MR is guilty. Not TLM.

Wow. I'm depressed.

Exactly it's all straight forward minus the rape so make a decision already!! Either way it's 25yrs so leave it he will get his in prison

myzzy
05-11-2012, 07:39 PM
There`s full coverage on the National on CBC at 9 pm tonight about the stuff the jury didn`t hear about Rafferty.

ty ty ty wonder if its online streaming, i gave up cable tv years ago

Edited to add i found it streaming tonight for those like me who dont have cable = http://www.cbc.ca/thenational/watch/

sillybilly
05-11-2012, 07:39 PM
London Free Press‏@RaffertyLFP

Crown arguing that sexual gratification doesn't have to be part of the act to make it sexual assault.

JayFriend
05-11-2012, 07:39 PM
Bodily harm could refer to the crushing of the ribs during the sexual assault, or throwing the child out of the car after the assault.

I feel they strongly think he sexually assaulted TS but are going to go with TLM story as the one who actually murdered Tori

Sexual assault can mean a wide variety of things ranging from unwelcome touching to forced intercourse. The fact that TLM said she peed blood indicated bodily harm to me. JMO

Bravo
05-11-2012, 07:40 PM
If we are still here this time tomorrow night???? I'll be......I dont know what I'll be.

sillybilly
05-11-2012, 07:40 PM
AM980.ca‏@AM980_Court

Carnegie is reviewing law on the issue, and legal definitions of sexual assault. It does NOT require sexual gratification of the perpetrator

Allanae
05-11-2012, 07:40 PM
To me it sounds like there is probably a juror that doesn't think MR was involved with a sexual assault, but they are trying to get the judge to tell this juror that if Tori had her clothes removed for any reason during the confinement it is considered sexual assault (by him) if he was there while it was done. So this juror probably thinks TLM was the one that removed the clothing, maybe?

robynhood
05-11-2012, 07:40 PM
RaffertyLFP Crown arguing that sexual gratification doesn't have to be part of the act to make it sexual assault.

matou
05-11-2012, 07:41 PM
@RaffertyLFP (https://twitter.com/#%21/RaffertyLFP) Crown arguing that sexual gratification doesn't have to be part of the act to make it sexual assault.


What..whether he has an orgasm? It`s still sexual assault regardless. Pffttt....JMO

Sailor Bug
05-11-2012, 07:41 PM
question still hasn't been answered for them. Debating what to tell them.


tweeters are getting very upset

Allanae
05-11-2012, 07:41 PM
If we are still here this time tomorrow night???? I'll be......I dont know what I'll be.
A few of us might be divorced!

crazyladi
05-11-2012, 07:41 PM
Come on people!! I am so impatient

snoofer
05-11-2012, 07:41 PM
London Free Press‏@RaffertyLFP

Crown arguing that sexual gratification doesn't have to be part of the act to make it sexual assault.

omg and they are missing the link ...that shows there WAS sexual gratification. GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR moo

Oldsoul2
05-11-2012, 07:42 PM
These jurors are even capable of confusing the judge and the lawyers, please dont let this be CAs trial all over again

roseofsharon
05-11-2012, 07:42 PM
LOL Well ya had an hour window during the dinner hour LOL Go spend time. I'm sure we will still be here when ya get back.

5 minutes!!!?? I'm sorry Crazylady, I couldn't help myself and you are making me LOL!!!

robynhood
05-11-2012, 07:42 PM
RaffertyLFP Crown arguing that sexual gratification doesn't have to be part of the act to make it sexual assault.

IMO we know what the crown knows ...IMO great work CROWN!

crazyladi
05-11-2012, 07:42 PM
A few of us might be divorced!

Me being one of them lol

sillybilly
05-11-2012, 07:42 PM
RaffertyLFP Crown arguing that sexual gratification doesn't have to be part of the act to make it sexual assault.

Right, if all one does is grope, there is no "evidence" of a sexual assault.

snoofer
05-11-2012, 07:43 PM
A few of us might be divorced!

tell me about it...all I hear is...blahblahblah.... :O)

SFB73
05-11-2012, 07:43 PM
I'm starting to think there may be some simple minded people on that jury... Just what the defense would hope for....

sillybilly
05-11-2012, 07:44 PM
London Free Press‏@RaffertyLFP

Heeney says will make instructions completely neutral.

crazyladi
05-11-2012, 07:44 PM
I wonder if they are debating his jerking his monkey down the lane way as sexual gratification?

snoofer
05-11-2012, 07:44 PM
I'm starting to think there may be some simple minded people on that jury... Just what the defense would hope for....

there is always one.... :O( drives me crazy!

always that one that just won't "be like others" just for the sake of being annoying it seems. moo

that one with the contrary personality..........oy! Every workplace has one for example. MOO

brighidin
05-11-2012, 07:44 PM
Derstine says #rafferty is also on pins and needles.



Excuse me while I don't give a <modsnip> what that guy is feeling.

Oldsoul2
05-11-2012, 07:45 PM
Why are they stuck on this issue??? Is there whole verdict depend on whether or not they believe he raped her?

sillybilly
05-11-2012, 07:45 PM
No, make the instructions factual and according to how the law reads !!

robynhood
05-11-2012, 07:45 PM
RaffertyLFP Heeney says will make instructions completely neutral.

...he tells that jury could be asking about TLM or Rafferty....IMO...they did it all together ...aside from the perv Rafferty ...

sillybilly
05-11-2012, 07:46 PM
London Free Press‏@RaffertyLFP

Jury could be asking about either McClintic or Rafferty, Heeney says.

Peekaboo10
05-11-2012, 07:46 PM
I wonder if they are debating his jerking his monkey down the lane way as sexual gratification?
*barf*

Bravo
05-11-2012, 07:46 PM
A few of us might be divorced!

LMAO It's Mother's Day weekend so all Mothers just milk it. It's all about "me" lol

Sailor Bug
05-11-2012, 07:46 PM
'There's a lot of hatred.' #ToriStafford's dad talks #Rafferty, new evidence and more with @Caryn_Lieberman: http://bit.ly/K97kiU #SunNews

crazyladi
05-11-2012, 07:47 PM
Why are they stuck on this issue??? Is there whole verdict depend on whether or not they believe he raped her?

Better not be that's all I can say

TopTop
05-11-2012, 07:47 PM
I had to go to Costco - on my iPhone when hubby is not looking!

~n/t~
05-11-2012, 07:48 PM
These jurors are even capable of confusing the judge and the lawyers, please dont let this be CAs trial all over again

Actually, I think the Judge confused them with his extended closing arguments/charges, imo.


Going through each testimony and then giving them the tree and basically told them to figure it out.

Personally, I was confused from reading the tweets but I figured the jury had a better understanding and were LIVE in that court room with testimony and evidence presented in front of them.

I guess not :/

sillybilly
05-11-2012, 07:48 PM
London Free Press‏@RaffertyLFP

Court recesses again.

justicefortori
05-11-2012, 07:49 PM
CP24: TRIAL UPDATE: The jury wants to know if removing child's undergarments while confined constitutes sex assault causing bodily harm #Stafford



What is a the worst charge of the two? Sexual assault or sex assault causing bodily harm?

Oldsoul2
05-11-2012, 07:49 PM
I had to go to Costco - on my iPhone when hubby is not looking!

Oh you got guilted into going...LOL should have gone on the crazyladi plan LOL don't forget the wine..

sillybilly
05-11-2012, 07:49 PM
Ummm ... Judge Heeney, sir? The jurors are aware that this is Michael Rafferty's trial. Are you?

snoofer
05-11-2012, 07:50 PM
I had to go to Costco - on my iPhone when hubby is not looking!

get something nice!!!!!!!!!!

robynhood
05-11-2012, 07:50 PM
RaffertyLFP Court recesses again.

...OMG why are they making this so complicated!...Ontario Justice is ......IMO....they better see the light of day for Tori...IMO ...at this rate we could be here a very long time ....id only the jury knew the WHOLE truth...IMo ..no questions in our minds...JMO!

Sailor Bug
05-11-2012, 07:50 PM
They need to make the decision, says judge- he says he'll be back (steps out for a moment)

Watching the events in London courtroom closely in case the #rafferty jury reaches a verdict; various guests offer insight @cbcconnect 8 ET

hope you are right, hard to imagine #Rafferty jury finding anything other then 1st degree

crazyladi
05-11-2012, 07:51 PM
Oh you got guilted into going...LOL should have gone on the crazyladi plan LOL don't forget the wine..

Haaha so true buying me some time thanks to my agent and his sugar tooth lol

matou
05-11-2012, 07:51 PM
One hour and 10 minutes left for today. Will they decide tonight?

sillybilly
05-11-2012, 07:51 PM
They need to make the decision, says judge- he says he'll be back (steps out for a moment)

He's coming to WS to see what to do ;)

Peekaboo10
05-11-2012, 07:52 PM
I feel lucky I have a hubby who likes his alone time as much I like mine lol... we will be meeting for Fringe at 9:00 though!

Sailor Bug
05-11-2012, 07:52 PM
After a short discussion of how judge should to answer question, court is recessed once again. Unknown for how long

Heeney writing out what he will tell the jury. Another break.

Justice Heeney is leaving briefly to write up his answer to the question. Court is recessed briefly.

Judge has left to re-write charge to #Rafferty jury. Stay tuned.

Jurors will deliberate until 9. If no decision, back at 9 am tomorrow.

crazyladi
05-11-2012, 07:52 PM
Ummm ... Judge Heeney, sir? The jurors are aware that this is Michael Rafferty's trial. Are you?

If I could say thanks 5 million times I would. Come on Heaney !

Allanae
05-11-2012, 07:53 PM
He's coming to WS to see what to do ;)
Too bad he isn't giving them a laptop to help with their decision!

matou
05-11-2012, 07:53 PM
@MarkCarc1010 (https://twitter.com/#%21/MarkCarc1010) Another brief recess as judge prepares response to jury in response to Q #4. Will give details of charge w/o mentioning #Rafferty (https://twitter.com/#%21/search/%23Rafferty)'s name.

‏ @cityfrancis (https://twitter.com/#%21/cityfrancis)
Judge has left to re-write charge to #Rafferty (https://twitter.com/#%21/search/%23Rafferty) jury. Stay tuned.

robynhood
05-11-2012, 07:53 PM
They need to make the decision, says judge- he says he'll be back (steps out for a moment)

Watching the events in London courtroom closely in case the #rafferty jury reaches a verdict; various guests offer insight @cbcconnect 8 ET

hope you are right, hard to imagine #Rafferty jury finding anything other then 1st degree

...who agrees that this is insanity already????....hmmm costico shopping anyone???...robynhood

SFB73
05-11-2012, 07:54 PM
Someone doesn't think there was a sex assault, the smarter members of the jury are breaking it down to the lowest common denominator to get the person(s) to agree a sex assault took place. So if he removed her clothes and even if you don't think he touched her, it is still sexual assault....

~n/t~
05-11-2012, 07:54 PM
He's coming to WS to see what to do ;)

hahahahaha!

taagean
05-11-2012, 07:54 PM
This jury is starting to scare me. I hope they are sure of themselves when they reach a verdict.

Bravo
05-11-2012, 07:55 PM
Only a little over an hour til they shut it down grrrrr......

robynhood
05-11-2012, 07:55 PM
AM980_Court Jurors will deliberate until 9. If no decision, back at 9 am tomorrow.

...many more days at this rate...IMO???...anyone agree...

snoofer
05-11-2012, 07:55 PM
wonders if the judge is XXXXXXXX his pants ....he made some..decisions that can seriously affect the outcome which will have nothing to do with justice IMO

Bravo
05-11-2012, 07:56 PM
I do think there is one or two on the Jury making it dfficult. Guess we will never know tho.

robynhood
05-11-2012, 07:56 PM
AM980_Court Jurors will deliberate until 9. If no decision, back at 9 am tomorrow.

IMo ..ya right Am 980 ..do not hold your breath on verdict...IMO...they better come to websleuthers to figure this out ...I agree!

roseofsharon
05-11-2012, 07:57 PM
*barf*

I've wanted to ask this for a long time. I know absolutely nothing about Oxycontin, however, I would have thought being so high, would produce the opposite effect ...... BUT ..... MR is a sex addict, but OMG, it is all he could ever think about. No wonder he could not hold down a legitimate job, as it would have interrupted his sex life too much. Just MOO of course.

Oldsoul2
05-11-2012, 07:57 PM
Too bad he isn't giving them a laptop to help with their decision!

I think hes at the point where he will have to grow the tree outside and stick post it notes to it, they've brought him back to the courthouse four times already probably interrupted his supper, hes annoyed

paris_paris
05-11-2012, 07:57 PM
This jury is starting to scare me. I hope they are sure of themselves when they reach a verdict.

I think the majority of them are sure of themselves and they're asking the questions to help the 1 or 2 who aren't sure.

snoofer
05-11-2012, 07:58 PM
I do think there is one or two on the Jury making it dfficult. Guess we will never know tho.

the problem is...they rarely budge on their positions....unless something dramatic occurs. grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr moo

Allanae
05-11-2012, 07:58 PM
I was recently in a jury pool in Ontario. If there is one thing I learned about that experience is if I am ever before the courts I do not want to be tried by a jury of my peers.

Dmman
05-11-2012, 07:59 PM
I do think there is one or two on the Jury making it dfficult. Guess we will never know tho.

I agree! I'm trying sooo hard to think positive but I hate this taking so long thing this jury is doing :(

snoofer
05-11-2012, 07:59 PM
yes i think i would prefer trial by judge only...too many unknowns about the people on the jury. moo

myzzy
05-11-2012, 08:00 PM
CP24: TRIAL UPDATE: The jury wants to know if removing child's undergarments while confined constitutes sex assault causing bodily harm #Stafford



What is a the worst charge of the two? Sexual assault or sex assault causing bodily harm?

I would think the 2nd of the two. but im no lawyer it just sounds right


...who agrees that this is insanity already????....hmmm costico shopping anyone???...robynhood

OHHH Costco's French Fries and Hotdogs are one of my quick cheap favorite meals.... I drive and run in to just have lunch there... hehe

Bravo
05-11-2012, 08:00 PM
I dont know if my arse can take another 12 hrs. lol

Sailor Bug
05-11-2012, 08:02 PM
yes, they deliberate 9a-9p Saturday and Sunday too. Verdict can be reached, and announced, over the weekend. We'll have it.

Feeling sick to my stomach while waiting for the verdict in the #rafferty trial.

robynhood
05-11-2012, 08:02 PM
IMO ...and from personal expeience...I can tell ya Judges in Ontario are not nice at all ....unbeliveable in our courts...HONESTLY >>>>IMO! ..been there with an abusive idot ...2 years!!!!...I had to comment...JMO!..hard t watch this all play out...sorry just being real honest ...and I said ...IMO!!!!!!...robynhood

Bravo
05-11-2012, 08:02 PM
If anyone heads to costco and they still have the cupcake sampler. Go for the lemon. The red velvet were dry.

taagean
05-11-2012, 08:02 PM
I think hes at the point where he will have to grow the tree outside and stick post it notes to it, they've brought him back to the courthouse four times already probably interrupted his supper, hes annoyed

That made me laugh!!

~n/t~
05-11-2012, 08:03 PM
I think hes at the point where he will have to grow the tree outside and stick post it notes to it, they've brought him back to the courthouse four times already probably interrupted his supper, hes annoyed

Imagine the accused child killer having to remove his three piece suit and tie and getting into his jail clothes and then having to do this 4 times. LOL

Peekaboo10
05-11-2012, 08:03 PM
What bugs me is that it's either a great thing they have so many questions, or a horrible thing... there is no in between :/

myzzy
05-11-2012, 08:04 PM
Any one ever think "what if" about the regulars who suddenly disappeared????

What if What? Confused but then again i usually am

Oldsoul2
05-11-2012, 08:05 PM
I dont know if my arse can take another 12 hrs. lol

LOL LOL, I sat on mine all day at work and now I haven't left the computer since I got home. I think i put on a pound or two today.

taagean
05-11-2012, 08:05 PM
I think I've had too much wine - a lot of these comments are giving me the giggles. Even the cupcakes that are dry.

Thinkzerz
05-11-2012, 08:07 PM
Any one ever think "what if" about the regulars who suddenly disappeared????

Some may feel awful seeing any Possible innocence in MR and then with the new news feels ashamed to ever think MR was innocent. I know i am.

myzzy
05-11-2012, 08:07 PM
What bugs me is that it's either a great thing they have so many questions, or a horrible thing... there is no in between :/

I think we are all going crazy waiting for this verdict even more so now that we have heard about the evidence the jury is not able to hear...

Anyone know witchcraft and can cast a spell on MR :) /runs off singing Itzy Bitzy Spider ......

~n/t~
05-11-2012, 08:07 PM
Sunday is mother's day. There are 9 women on this jury. I'm guessing some are moms and want to be home to celebrate with their kids. :/

sillybilly
05-11-2012, 08:08 PM
Imagine the accused child killer having to remove his three piece suit and tie and getting into his jail clothes and then having to do this 4 times. LOL

I'm visualizing him removing his trousers, his skivvies, socks, shoes and jacket ... when he craps himself at the verdict ;)

myzzy
05-11-2012, 08:08 PM
Some may feel awful seeing any Possible innocence in MR and then with the new news feels ashamed to ever think MR was innocent. I know i am.

Ohhh that what if,, see i did miss something... I was one of the few who was on the fence and I have no problem admitting i was wrong and very sorry I was.

Tori's Justice is worth so much more then my pride

Kamille
05-11-2012, 08:08 PM
This jury is starting to scare me. I hope they are sure of themselves when they reach a verdict.

This jury would have returned the verdict in less than an hour if they were given all the evidence to work with. Grrrrr

MOO

SFB73
05-11-2012, 08:09 PM
Some may feel awful seeing any Possible innocence in MR and then with the new news feels ashamed to ever think MR was innocent. I know i am.

No... No... Perhaps they just don't have access to a means to post....

Bravo
05-11-2012, 08:11 PM
I'm visualizing him removing his trousers, his skivvies, socks, shoes and jacket ... when he craps himself at the verdict ;)

The thoughts of that Gavel coming down is eerily symbolic

justicefortori
05-11-2012, 08:11 PM
No... No... Perhaps they just don't have access to a means to post....

Ive thought about this a few times today also...

~n/t~
05-11-2012, 08:12 PM
London Free Press‏@RaffertyLFP

Jury could be asking about either McClintic or Rafferty, Heeney says.

I knew it! They're lost. They need to refocus and look at evidence and testimony as it relates to the accused not the one who is already convicted!

AAAARGGHHH!

~n/t~
05-11-2012, 08:13 PM
This jury would have returned the verdict in less than an hour if they were given all the evidence to work with. Grrrrr

MOO

I agree.

Heliotrope
05-11-2012, 08:13 PM
Imagine what Smyth, Renton et al are feeling right now, and the hundreds of police that were involved that we didn't see. As well as the Crown prosecutors.

matou
05-11-2012, 08:13 PM
@jamesarmstrong7 (https://twitter.com/#%21/jamesarmstrong7) Judge and lawyers are back again

robynhood
05-11-2012, 08:13 PM
LindaNguyenPN The judge is still working on his answer to question on sexual assault causing bodily harm. Jury can deliberate past 9 pm if they want too

Sailor Bug
05-11-2012, 08:14 PM
Jurors coming back.

Judge back with his instructions. Jury is coming back into the court room to hear the answer to the 4th question of the day

Judge and lawyers are back again

Jurors come back to hear the answer from the judge #rafferty

sillybilly
05-11-2012, 08:14 PM
London Free Press‏@RaffertyLFP

Court back in session, jury returning

matou
05-11-2012, 08:14 PM
robynhoo: LindaNguyenPN The judge is still working on his answer to question on sexual assault causing bodily harm. Jury can deliberate past 9 pm if they want too

good!

~n/t~
05-11-2012, 08:15 PM
I was recently in a jury pool in Ontario. If there is one thing I learned about that experience is if I am ever before the courts I do not want to be tried by a jury of my peers.

That's scary.

Sailor Bug
05-11-2012, 08:15 PM
Heeney reads his response to the question: "the instruction deals with a person who removes the clothing of a confined child..."

Sexual assault causing bodily harm definition read. Person applied force to victim, force was sexual, force caused bodily harm.

Even a slight touch is force. Remove of under clothing is force. It was intentional.

JayFriend
05-11-2012, 08:16 PM
Sunday is mother's day. There are 9 women on this jury. I'm guessing some are moms and want to be home to celebrate with their kids. :/

And they ALL have moms.

sillybilly
05-11-2012, 08:16 PM
AM980.ca‏@AM980_Court

Heeney reads his response to the question: "the instruction deals with a person who removes the clothing of a confined child..."

Sailor Bug
05-11-2012, 08:17 PM
Rather than give you the answer to your question, I will give you the analytical tools to answer it yourselves." - J. Heeney

Instead of answering question 4-judge gives #Rafferty jury analytical tools to answer on thier own

Acts to demean for sexual pleasure are also sexual assault. If removal of clothing violated sexual integrity of the child, that occurred.

sillybilly
05-11-2012, 08:17 PM
AM980.ca‏@AM980_Court

Even a slight touch is force. Remove of under clothing is force. It was intentional.


1m AM980.ca‏@AM980_Court

Sexual assault causing bodily harm definition read. Person applied force to victim, force was sexual, force caused bodily harm.

sillybilly
05-11-2012, 08:18 PM
AM980.ca‏@AM980_Court

Acts to demean for sexual pleasure are also sexual assault. If removal of clothing violated sexual integrity of the child, that occurred.