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TheStupidTree
05-11-2012, 10:05 PM
:floorlaugh:

Camera, pretty girl, 'perfected salesman strut' ... this could go viral on youtube! 'how not to give a press conference in a murder investigation'

I actually find his approach to the reporter a bit immature. I have several (7) kids lol, his walk is almost child like, how I would see my boys approach me or hubby if they didn't want to talk to us but felt they had to (when they're in trouble). His arms are limp and kinda waving around by his side. It's like a mock performance of a kid "I don't wanna be here, I don't wanna talk to you".

Greg
05-11-2012, 10:08 PM
If info received is correct, the criminal lawyer was present when the police arrived (unverified source)

The police arrived in response to a summons by the husband who claimed his wife was missing (police and media sources)

The husband called the police quite early in the day. Many of us have asked why he called the police so quickly

Would a top criminal lawyer advise his client to call the police so early if there was a chance the police would find incriminating evidence within the residence?

Wouldn't a criminal lawyer cover all bases: computers, phones, physical evidence of a struggle, files and documents, etc. etc.?

So, how long had the criminal lawyer been there before the police were called?

In order to cover all bases, tutor his client in what to do and say, wouldn't the criminal lawyer have needed to be there several hours before the police were called?

And wouldn't the lawyer have spoken with his client for some time before even deciding to set off for the client's home?

This pushes back the time frame even further, doesn't it ?

If we do some rough arithmetic in this hypothetical scenario:

* 7.30 police arrive ?

* 7.15 the children arrive back home ? (unverified source, time unknown)

* 7.00 a.m. the husband phones the police? (pure guesswork. could be totally wrong)

* 5.00 a.m to 7.00 a.m. the lawyer covers bases by deleting info on computers, arranging other material to be picked-up and removed from premises by his junior ? Tutors his nervous-wreck client in what to say to police? Instructs client to shower and change, clean-up bedroom, etc.?

* 4.00 a.m. to 5.00 p.m. for lawyer to leave home and get to client's place?

* 3.00 a.m. to 4.00 a.m. discussing situation with client by phone ?

* 1.00 a.m. to 2.30 a.m. for husband to phone around frantically seeking assistance. Is finally provided criminal lawyer's contact details ?

* midnight to 1.00 p.m. for husband to get from wherever to home, quick whip-around the vehicle to clean up. Pacing up and down. Deciding to who to call ?

* wife died before midnight ? Phone ditched. Other items dumped, hidden

* wife departed hairdresser approx. 8.30 p.m.?

5am - 7am no chance a lawyer may coach and instruct on things a client should or shouldn't say or do, but they would NEVER interfere with evidence or a crime scene, that would make them liable to criminal charges....no lawyer would do this.

spratsmum
05-11-2012, 10:11 PM
BrookieLocal told us that Allison had mentioned that the kids were at a sleepover, so she had to have already dropped them off. We know that she was to be at West End the next morning no later than 9.00am. A few local members have said that, because of heavy traffic, she would have had to leave roughly 7.15 - 7.30am which means she wouldn't have been able to drop the kids off to school.

It makes sense to me that this was the reason the kids were at a sleepover on a school night. Whoever was minding them was going to take them to school. It also fits in with speculation that Allison & GBC were somewhat separated or at least on the verge of separating. If GBC was living there full time, you would think he would have dropped them to school and no need for the children to be spending the night elsewhere.

Like other couples who separate, sometimes tensions are simmering until the point in time when one of them starts moving their belongings out of the house and then things go downhill.

I'm wondering if GBC came to the home to collect some belongings while Allison was at the hairdressers and was still there when she got home. Emotions erupted which ended with Allison dying.

I also wonder if GBC was taking his belongings to the house of his female ex-colleague and knowing that she was expecting his return there that night, he contacted her and told her what happened. A plan was then made to hide the body.

It could be this simple. Perhaps Gerard took advantage of Allison not being home to collect something and his mistress accompanied him - sort of thing you would do when you are in love. Perhaps even Allison came home and found them in a compromising position.

Allison would feel annoyed " I have told you not to bring that woman here" , an argument ensues, perhaps a physical one between Allison and the mistress, Gerard tries to pull them apart and gets involved, the mistress challenges him - her or me, and the situation accelerates and a pillow or hands are used to suffocate or strangle Allison, and then the deception begins.

Just on the children, we know they were at a sleepover and they live very close to the school, at 7.30 or before school wouldn't have been opened and perhaps they had no idea how to sign in for OHC or it wsn't opened yet, so who ever it is says, "Look Mummy is still home , want to go say good morning, perhaps they forgot something, they run and are confronted by Daddy and/or the solicitor and the reasonable question is where is Mummy? he answers the question strangely and gets them out of the house quickly. If the police arrive during this time, it could look really strange, in particular if he says the girls were at home all night and one of them contradicts him.

Also the dynamics of having three daughter, means one will be seen by her siblings to be Daddy's favourite, quite an important role in a family dynamic, protects Daddy from Mummy, loves him better then Mummy but not ion the same way as the mistress. Too many woman in your life Gerard, you can't keep all of them happy.

Limaes
05-11-2012, 10:13 PM
5am - 7am no chance a lawyer may coach and instruct on things a client should or shouldn't say or do, but they would NEVER interfere with evidence or a crime scene, that would make them liable to criminal charges....no lawyer would do this.

Of course they wouldn't. Where did all this talk about the lawyer being there come from?

Thinking
05-11-2012, 10:15 PM
If what I was told yesterday is factual ( from a very reliable source with no history of fabricating stories) 2 vehicles were seen in a public area near the scout ground, between the hours of interest. One was said to be a white 4wd and the other was parked very close behind it. Neither was towing a trailer. I personally believe the interest in the roundabout is to determine movements of the second vehicle, and if this is the case, due to the location, this vehicle is unlikely to belong to senior BC's, and the description of the second car did not match either of the cars known to be theirs either. I was also told the police have a huge amount of solid evidence on the main suspect, which I was assured is from a very connected person.

All still hearsay, but hope it's true.

Thanks for this - very interesting! If your belief that the interest in the roundabout is to determine the movements of the second vehicle, this would answer the repeated query as to why on earth the perpetrator would take that route in their vehicle, when it is much quieter and darker heading along RG Rd (rather than via the roundabout).

minni
05-11-2012, 10:16 PM
I know I am going to appear dimwitted for this, but what is the latest regarding lawyer being there in the morning? I have missed a bit whilst having my little breakdown yesterday and not caught up properly!!

Fuskier
05-11-2012, 10:24 PM
Re ABC funeral, found link with footage of funeral stating Police step-up inquiry as ABC laid to rest/News.com.
This has now been deleted!
So checked direct website link: www.news.com.au/.../allison-baden-clay.../story-e6frfkvr-122635250 and guess what? deleted again!
Lawyers at work?

Limaes
05-11-2012, 10:24 PM
It could be this simple. Perhaps Gerard took advantage of Allison not being home to collect something and his mistress accompanied him - sort of thing you would do when you are in love. Perhaps even Allison came home and found them in a compromising position.

Allison would feel annoyed " I have told you not to bring that woman here" , an argument ensues, perhaps a physical one between Allison and the mistress, Gerard tries to pull them apart and gets involved, the mistress challenges him - her or me, and the situation accelerates and a pillow or hands are used to suffocate or strangle Allison, and then the deception begins.

Just on the children, we know they were at a sleepover and they live very close to the school, at 7.30 or before school wouldn't have been opened and perhaps they had no idea how to sign in for OHC or it wsn't opened yet, so who ever it is says, "Look Mummy is still home , want to go say good morning, perhaps they forgot something, they run and are confronted by Daddy and/or the solicitor and the reasonable question is where is Mummy? he answers the question strangely and gets them out of the house quickly. If the police arrive during this time, it could look really strange, in particular if he says the girls were at home all night and one of them contradicts him.

Also the dynamics of having three daughter, means one will be seen by her siblings to be Daddy's favourite, quite an important role in a family dynamic, protects Daddy from Mummy, loves him better then Mummy but not ion the same way as the mistress. Too many woman in your life Gerard, you can't keep all of them happy.

Ohhh...that is an interesting thought about the kids being dropped off at school and seeing Allison's car still there when it wasn't supposed to be.

At this point, I do feel that GBC took advantage of Allison being at the salon to stop by and collect some stuff and she came home before he expected her to. The only reason I don't think that he had someone with him is surely this person wouldn't stand by while someone was choking the life out of someone else, but who knows. Maybe GBC saw Allison's car in the parking lot and seized the opportunity to go to the house without having to interact with her but she came home before he finished.

I could imagine a woman coming home to find her husband packing his stuff into his car and all hell breaking loose.

minni
05-11-2012, 10:28 PM
Ohhh...that is an interesting thought about the kids being dropped off at school and seeing Allison's car still there when it wasn't supposed to be.

At this point, I do feel that GBC took advantage of Allison being at the salon to stop by and collect some stuff and she came home before he expected her to. The only reason I don't think that he had someone with him is surely this person wouldn't stand by while someone was choking the life out of someone else, but who knows. Maybe GBC saw Allison's car in the parking lot and seized the opportunity to go to the house without having to interact with her but she came home before he finished.

I could imagine a woman coming home to find her husband packing his stuff into his car and all hell breaking loose.

oh yes, what time did someone say previously that a resident saw the prado with all four doors open? was it early in the evening (that would fit your theory) or middle of the night (not likely to be packing your belongings then)

Southern Rain
05-11-2012, 10:31 PM
I think this observation re times is spot on!

Things I have previously noted:

1. Trailer & Roundabout Camera & White SUV (prado ?) - Prado tow ball - still nothing although Thursday evening around 3am, just gone when police were re-enacting at Kenmore, with the camera on roundabout, a white SUV towing a trailer went through. Earlier, just after 12 am, a white SUV went through, both with white rear tyre covers. Later in the morning, the camera went down for some reason. Why was that? Were the police showing the actual footage on the live camera stream so that the public could make comments on forums like this to confirm their own identifications?

2. Mistress - I believe TM is not the mistress. I am interested in a 22 year old who works in the rental division of C21 Westside, whom GBC is recent friends with on both of her Facebook profiles. Seems odd to have a boss be Facebook friends with. GBC seems thrilled with her listings on the C21 Westside Facebook page!

3. Missing iPhone & Computer & Social Media & Phone records. iPhone records. Surely the police are able to piece together communications between relevant people including ABC. Does or did GBC have an iPhone. Was GBC a frequent poster on Facebook. He has some 282 friends. Has anyone come forward to say his activity has changed? Did he have location services on? What did staff in the C21 Westside office know about the personal / home situation. What about the hairdresser? They are therapists, that know the deepest secrets of their customers. What is he/she saying about what was on ABC's mind?

4. The time that GBC last saw ABC. What is the official record here? 1. Did she go for walk 2. GBC go to bed while she was watching the Footy Show or 3. Both go to sleep together on the night she went missing?

5. Toxicology & Autopsy Report - what were the conclusions here. Was she drugged, and/ or strangled and/or bludgeoned etc etc

6. Police may have to change their tack as the perpetrator has obviously out played them to date, given what we understand to be the broad facts of this case.

Midsummer
05-11-2012, 10:35 PM
First post! Just news update

http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/queensland/police-visit-husband-as-hunt-continues/story-e6freoof-1226353620719

Text of article: POLICE have visited Gerard Baden-Clay at his parent's house this morning, as they continue to search for the killer of his wife Allison.

Two plainclothes detectives arrived at the Kenmore house just after 10am and spoke to Mr Baden-Clay for about 10 minutes at the front door of the house.

It is understood Mr Baden-Clay was visiting his parents this morning.

Police said it was part of their routine inquiries.

More than 600 people attended the funeral for Allison Baden-Clay, 43, at St Paul's Anglican Church in Ipswich yesterday.

Mr Baden-Clay reported his wife missing on the morning of April 20, after he told police he last saw her leaving their Brookfield home about 10pm the night before.

Her body was found under the Kholo Creek bridge on April 30.

Limaes
05-11-2012, 10:35 PM
oh yes, what time did someone say previously that a resident saw the prado with all four doors open? was it early in the evening (that would fit your theory) or middle of the night (not likely to be packing your belongings then)

I'm not sure what time that was. If it is true that police found something in the car, it could have been GBC's personal belongings which police believe shows that GBC was in the process of leaving but for some reason was unfinished.

Limaes
05-11-2012, 10:37 PM
First post! Just news update

Click here (http://http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/queensland/police-visit-husband-as-hunt-continues/story-e6freoof-1226353620719)

Hi Midsummer :) That link doesn't work for me :(

Greg
05-11-2012, 10:37 PM
And let's get something straight for anyone feeling sorry for the killer.....strangulation isn't an accidental escalation of DV, pushing and falling and hitting a head could be......but strangulation is rage....choking the life out of someone to quench their life out, holding their throat squeezing as hard as you can, gritting your teeth and going for broke as they try and scratch back possibly kneeing you in the ribs, fighting for life as he tries to extinguish hers...I'm sure you have all seen it in movies....

Don't offer him sympathy he doesn't deserve it, not one bit!

CaseClosed
05-11-2012, 10:40 PM
If a person is in someway involved in the death of another, but which falls short of an intentional killing, then the police are not their friend. The police will almost certainly do everything they can to establish intention, and that is their job. But when the alternatives are a couple of years in prsion versus at least 15yrs, then a lawyer will advise their client that the best course of action is to leave it to the police and the DPP to try and prove every element of the offence, including intention. In the public psyche, it is often very difficult to accept that one person can cause the death of another without an intention to kill, but it occurs frequently. In a high profile case such as this, where the deceased is (literally) portrayed as an innocent angel and the husband as some sort of cold, evil demon then the public mood is that they actually want the accused to have committed an intentional killing. Nothing else will assauge their passion. The lynch mentality is a very powerfl one. And it is fickle, potentially any of us can be the focus of the mob depending on circumstances. In a situation such as that, only the lawyer stands between the accused and the mob. And it is a thoroughly thankless role. The police are cast as heroes, the lawyers as evil, money grabbing opportunists.


Very true! Lawyers are doing a job, the same as the police. People condemn in particular defence lawyers, I don't (and am not involved in law). I agree that in the heat of a moment, someone can unintentionally kill someone, which is what I personally believe happened in this case. Police are being praised for the way they have handled this case, however there are many other cases when the mob have criticised police. Human nature.

Limaes
05-11-2012, 10:42 PM
And let's get something straight for anyone feeling sorry for the killer.....strangulation isn't an accidental escalation of DV, pushing and falling and hitting a head could be......but strangulation is rage....choking the life out of someone to quench their life out, holding their throat squeezing as hard as you can, gritting your teeth and going for broke as they try and scratch back possibly kneeing you in the ribs, fighting for life as he tries to extinguish hers...I'm sure you have all seen it in movies....

Don't offer him sympathy he doesn't deserve it, not one bit!

I don't feel sorry for anyone who would do that. Especially if rather than come clean about what happened, they chose to throw her away like she was a piece of rubbish.

Midsummer
05-11-2012, 10:45 PM
Hi Midsummer :) That link doesn't work for me :(

Fixed now

Southern Rain
05-11-2012, 10:46 PM
If it was in the heat of the moment, then why not come clean and cut a deal rather than a playing out this game of cat and mouse?

BrizzychickinUSA
05-11-2012, 10:47 PM
I know. You mentioned the tow-ball days before the tow-ball killer

When I heard about the tow-ball killer, it felt weird ! Almost as if someone was sending a message

No apparent reason for the tow-ball killer to have killed his wife.

yeah....I hear yah......thats how it felt for me too....

BrizzychickinUSA
05-11-2012, 10:49 PM
Hi Midsummer :) That link doesn't work for me :(

ME NEITHER....:floorlaugh::floorlaugh:

CaseClosed
05-11-2012, 10:49 PM
Oh sorry, no, elder BC's only had reported gear from their shed taken. Bwana wouldn't allow anyone to take the Love Wagon away :)


From what was reported in the media, the shed was searched, but we don't know if any gear was taken from the shed. They didn't specify this.

CJ60
05-11-2012, 10:50 PM
And let's get something straight for anyone feeling sorry for the killer.....strangulation isn't an accidental escalation of DV, pushing and falling and hitting a head could be......but strangulation is rage....choking the life out of someone to quench their life out, holding their throat squeezing as hard as you can, gritting your teeth and going for broke as they try and scratch back possibly kneeing you in the ribs, fighting for life as he tries to extinguish hers...I'm sure you have all seen it in movies....

Don't offer him sympathy he doesn't deserve it, not one bit!

Agree, agree, agree - even if someone put their hands around someones neck in temper - if they had a shred of humanity in their body - they would realise what they were doing, and stop! what has happened is horrific! And then to act like a gutless coward, and discard Allison in a creek like a piece of garbage... and try and save their own skin! I think the person needs a noose around their neck...

TheStupidTree
05-11-2012, 10:52 PM
And let's get something straight for anyone feeling sorry for the killer.....strangulation isn't an accidental escalation of DV, pushing and falling and hitting a head could be......but strangulation is rage....choking the life out of someone to quench their life out, holding their throat squeezing as hard as you can, gritting your teeth and going for broke as they try and scratch back possibly kneeing you in the ribs, fighting for life as he tries to extinguish hers...I'm sure you have all seen it in movies....

Don't offer him sympathy he doesn't deserve it, not one bit!

Strangulation by hand is also a very intimate way to kill someone. Up close. Poor Allison would have been looking into the face of her killer as she passed.

BrizzychickinUSA
05-11-2012, 10:56 PM
Re ABC funeral, found link with footage of funeral stating Police step-up inquiry as ABC laid to rest/News.com.
This has now been deleted!
So checked direct website link: www.news.com.au/.../allison-baden-clay.../story-e6frfkvr-122635250 and guess what? deleted again!
Lawyers at work?

WOTS BEEN GOING ON???? I been taking kids to work, out to dinner, and shopping...now..I hve a headache but

Im reading quickly and get, drugged, strangled, as maybe's?

I have always thought he put something in her drink or injected her with some horse tranqualizer...then strangled?

CoffeeDrinker
05-11-2012, 10:57 PM
This link if i have done it correctly has some interesting notations in relation to a gold coast property that the BCs owned through a company name & also in regards to BC senior:

http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/national/the-reclusive-side-of-a-grieving-husband-20120512-1yj5w.html

CaseClosed
05-11-2012, 11:01 PM
This is my first post after reading the threads. It's an interesting case, a lot of mystery, but very sad for all of those involved not least for those young girls.

The picture at the funeral of GBC with his arms around the three girls, he looks the most sad that I've seen him pictured since it started. No matter what happened to Allison this can't have been enjoyable for him and he did have a life with her. If he was involved in her death I'd be surprised if it were premeditated and he didn't care for her at all.

Now to share a theory circulating the local grapevine and rumour mill to see if any sleuths can prove or disprove it. I don't post it as fact but it's another angle to look at this from that i havent seen mentioned and is a possibility that I'd be interested in your thoughts on. The theory goes like this...

ABC and GBC were separated. She had become aware of an affair GBC was having and he was meant to have ended it with them having councilling. Apparently it wasn't over. According to this rumor GBC and the mistress would use the scout camp to meet. On this particular night the girls were at a sleepover so the thought is that she drove out to confront them there. The theory is that whatever happened to Allison happened there and that her car was then returned somehow to the house.

What so you think of this theory sleuths? Running with this idea how do you think things might have happened? It seems to me to be a viable theory to consider.

This indicates the murder scene was the scout camp, however IMO the police spent very little time there. But it is possible. Someone else indicated the police were analysing tyre marks found at the scout camp, but is all rumour at this stage. Do we know if the alleged mistress is single or married? If she is single, then it doesn't make sense that they would meed at a bush area and not at her home.

TheStupidTree
05-11-2012, 11:01 PM
POLICE have visited Gerard Baden-Clay at his parent's house this morning, as they continue to search for the killer of his wife Allison.

Two plainclothes detectives arrived at the Kenmore house just after 10am and spoke to Mr Baden-Clay for about 10 minutes at the front door of the house.

http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/queensland/police-visit-husband-as-hunt-continues/story-e6freoof-1226353620719

Why talk at front door in view of media?

Liadan
05-11-2012, 11:02 PM
Angel1 come back!:uthere: Hope you are still lurking!

minni
05-11-2012, 11:03 PM
The act of strangulation symbolizes an abuser’s power and control over the victim.Studies indicate that 23% to 68% of women victims of domestic violence have experienced at least one strangulation assault by a male partner during their lifetime;4,5 and 33% to 47.3% women report that their partner had tried to strangle them in the past year.6,7
http://www.sp2.upenn.edu/ortner/docs/factsheet_strangulation.pdf

I read somewhere else that strangulation is almost always carried out by men, rarely women....that would seem to indicate if a woman was involved that it most likely would be as accomplice and not as the killer? and as thestupidtree just said, its rather intimate

BrizzychickinUSA
05-11-2012, 11:07 PM
Thanks for this - very interesting! If your belief that the interest in the roundabout is to determine the movements of the second vehicle, this would answer the repeated query as to why on earth the perpetrator would take that route in their vehicle, when it is much quieter and darker heading along RG Rd (rather than via the roundabout).

maybe a quiet chat to the solicitor mater who he went to school with...considering there has been suggestions of him being at the house wen the cops arrived early in the morning...?:what:

CJ60
05-11-2012, 11:08 PM
Strangulation by hand is also a very intimate way to kill someone. Up close. Poor Allison would have been looking into the face of her killer as she passed.

It is so distressing to think of someones life being taken from them in this way..it reduces me to tears. Could anyone claim that they didn't intend to strangle someone? Say that they did it in the heat of the moment? This is obviously not an action that takes place in a moment - it involves deliberately choking the last breath out of someone. It is not like pushing them, and they fall and strike their head. And then to cover it up!!! Someone has to be held accountable for what they have taken from Allison, her children and parents. There is a worthless creep out there - with their freedom, and I am praying for the day that they pay for what they have done.

minni
05-11-2012, 11:08 PM
The act of strangulation symbolizes an abuserís power and control over the victim.Studies indicate that 23% to 68% of women victims of domestic violence have experienced at least one strangulation assault by a male partner during their lifetime;4,5 and 33% to 47.3% women report that their partner had tried to strangle them in the past year.6,7
http://www.sp2.upenn.edu/ortner/docs/factsheet_strangulation.pdf

I read somewhere else that strangulation is almost always carried out by men, rarely women....that would seem to indicate if a woman was involved that it most likely would be as accomplice and not as the killer? and as thestupidtree just said, its rather intimate

Now, to appear DOUBLT dimwitted....I still dont know what this is about the lawyer being at GBC in the morning... but do I have this right? toxicology has come back and drugs detected and autopsy is saying strangulation??? can someone fill me in PPPLLLEEEASSE?

Cccclllaareb
05-11-2012, 11:13 PM
Now, to appear DOUBLT dimwitted....I still dont know what this is about the lawyer being at GBC in the morning... but do I have this right? toxicology has come back and drugs detected and autopsy is saying strangulation??? can someone fill me in PPPLLLEEEASSE?

Minni I believe at this stage all of the above are rumours heard here and there.

Strangeworld
05-11-2012, 11:19 PM
There seems to be lots of new info that at this stage is only speculation/unconfirmed. Correct me if wrong, but the following has not been released by the police nor media:

-the picture of the car with trailer posted many pages back was not taken on the night of Allison's disappearance. Unless a recreation by police, it is a totally irrelevant vehicle to this case.

-the mention of a lawyer been present at the time the police first showed up to ABC's home is rumour - nothing confirmed, and I've only read it in one post on this thread (nothing indicated in any of the news articles or QPS press releases)

-the mention of strangulation has also only been mentioned on this thread on one post - nothing has been released through QPS or media at this point.

I just think we need to be wary of all info at the moment, as there seems to be so much out there, it's getting a bit confusing as to what is actually confirmed.

I believe many on here have inside info that most of us are not privy to, so it's great to have that input. I think we just need to be patient and wait for these sort of details to be confirmed before assuming they are true. Don't want to offend anyone, just putting it out there.

CJ60
05-11-2012, 11:19 PM
Now, to appear DOUBLT dimwitted....I still dont know what this is about the lawyer being at GBC in the morning... but do I have this right? toxicology has come back and drugs detected and autopsy is saying strangulation??? can someone fill me in PPPLLLEEEASSE?

Well, quick summary of the last 10 pages, the Brookfield jungle drums say that GBC told police kiddies were at home all night, but one of the little angels told the truth and said they were at a sleepover, poor Allison was strangled and Lawyer was there early the Friday morning that Allison was reported missing. Nothing stated as fact - from a poster who has brought reliable information to the forum in the past.

All rumour - but you will have to read the last 10 pages to catch up!

CaseClosed
05-11-2012, 11:20 PM
In light of new information, my theory is this:
GBC and Mistress arrange to meet up near scout camp. GBC is running late, Allison joins the mistress to confront her. There is an altercation and Allison is accidentally killed or severely injured. GBC arrives and sees what has happened. Being spineless he says, "I want nothing to do with this, you're on your own" and drives off. The mistress is left with a body to dispose of, who does she call?

My bet is she calls NBC or EBC. S/he arranges to meet mistress near the roundabout, she picks him/her up, they go back, dispose of the body and E/NBC drives Allison's car back to the family home. Mistress then drops E/NBC back near roundabout, they go their separate ways.

GBC looks so guilty because he is technically involved, and his plea for her to return is so unbelievable because he already knows she is not going to return. He contacts lawyer Immediately because he knows he will be implicated by the involvement of the mistress.

At has been reported by another member who said reliable source informed them the cause of death is strangulation (not established as fact yet). A woman would not be strong enough to do it to another woman.

maverik1
05-11-2012, 11:20 PM
This is my first post after reading the threads. It's an interesting case, a lot of mystery, but very sad for all of those involved not least for those young girls.

The picture at the funeral of GBC with his arms around the three girls, he looks the most sad that I've seen him pictured since it started. No matter what happened to Allison this can't have been enjoyable for him and he did have a life with her. If he was involved in her death I'd be surprised if it were premeditated and he didn't care for her at all.

Now to share a theory circulating the local grapevine and rumour mill to see if any sleuths can prove or disprove it. I don't post it as fact but it's another angle to look at this from that i havent seen mentioned and is a possibility that I'd be interested in your thoughts on. The theory goes like this...

ABC and GBC were separated. She had become aware of an affair GBC was having and he was meant to have ended it with them having councilling. Apparently it wasn't over. According to this rumor GBC and the mistress would use the scout camp to meet. On this particular night the girls were at a sleepover so the thought is that she drove out to confront them there. The theory is that whatever happened to Allison happened there and that her car was then returned somehow to the house.

What so you think of this theory sleuths? Running with this idea how do you think things might have happened? It seems to me to be a viable theory to consider.
I had also heard on the local grapevine that ABC met the "other woman" on that night, and that there were suspicious tyre marks at the scout camp...

BrizzychickinUSA
05-11-2012, 11:21 PM
Ok having had to endure GBC's nasal call-in-sick voice again, I can kind of imagine he is saying what a lawyer might have scripted for him. The issue is, he's doing a bloody awful job of delivering the message. God help the female journo if he's aroused by her presence.

I think the 'they've' is just his nasally rendition of 'we've'

If the lawyer was involved in allowing that interview, his next words to Gerard after seeing the footage (other than you '********* ******') may well have been 'we'd better get a barrister involved'!

anyone seen this ****?

Best Practice - The Great Culture at Century 21 Westside Brisbane - YouTube

OMG....the sick voice aint happening in this little performance

Bayside
05-11-2012, 11:33 PM
Double post sorry.

Elspeth
05-11-2012, 11:35 PM
First post! Just news update

http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/queensland/police-visit-husband-as-hunt-continues/story-e6freoof-1226353620719

Text of article: POLICE have visited Gerard Baden-Clay at his parent's house this morning, as they continue to search for the killer of his wife Allison.

Two plainclothes detectives arrived at the Kenmore house just after 10am and spoke to Mr Baden-Clay for about 10 minutes at the front door of the house.

It is understood Mr Baden-Clay was visiting his parents this morning.

Police said it was part of their routine inquiries.

More than 600 people attended the funeral for Allison Baden-Clay, 43, at St Paul's Anglican Church in Ipswich yesterday.

Mr Baden-Clay reported his wife missing on the morning of April 20, after he told police he last saw her leaving their Brookfield home about 10pm the night before.

Her body was found under the Kholo Creek bridge on April 30.

I would assume the police could have possibly been advising him that they now had the toxicology/autopsy results or perhaps there was to be an upcoming press release eg...in this case there would have been no reason for them to go inside the house but something which had to be communicated in person...

Bayside
05-11-2012, 11:40 PM
POLICE have visited Gerard Baden-Clay at his parent's house this morning, as they continue to search for the killer of his wife Allison.

Two plainclothes detectives arrived at the Kenmore house just after 10am and spoke to Mr Baden-Clay for about 10 minutes at the front door of the house.

http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/queensland/police-visit-husband-as-hunt-continues/story-e6freoof-1226353620719

Why talk at front door in view of media?

I guess Gerard didnt roll out the red carpet for the people who are working hard to find the mother of his childrens killer. He seems to be treating them more like annoying salesmen hoping they will leave quickly.

In a lot of cases like this the spouse will ride the detectives asses for updates and answers to the point of being annoying. I know if my husband had been murdered I would want to stay very involved and if I didnt kill him it would help me for the police to find the real killer.... Just saying.

Elspeth
05-11-2012, 11:44 PM
[QUOTE=TheStupidTree;7908283]POLICE have visited Gerard Baden-Clay at his parent's house this morning, as they continue to search for the killer of his wife Allison.

Two plainclothes detectives arrived at the Kenmore house just after 10am and spoke to Mr Baden-Clay for about 10 minutes at the front door of the house.

http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/queensland/police-visit-husband-as-hunt-continues/story-e6freoof-1226353620719

Why talk at front door in view of media?[/QUOTE

Possibly they may have been there to advise him that the toxicology/autopsy results had come back or perhaps to advise him of an upcoming media release eg ??...in this case there would have been no reason for them to go inside the house but it would be something which had to be communicated in person...

Raskolnikov
05-11-2012, 11:47 PM
Forgive me if this has been mentioned elsewhere, I've just returned to this thread and haven't read all of the previous entries.

Someone mentioned earlier that GBC at the funeral looked the most sad they have seen him while holding his children's hands. I saw this footage as well and can't dispute that I saw him crying which looked pretty genuine.

I noticed though that his beard is longer and I thought this a bit strange as I would have presumed that you would like to look smart at a solemn occasion as important as this. Even if it is a show of being strong for the children. But the image, that I feel is trying to be portrayed, is of someone so distraught that even the basics, like shaving, is not worth thinking about.

Also I see him surrounding himself with the kids and almost a defence. Everyone feels sorry for the children and while he has them close to him maybe he feels that he will not be targeted in some way.

These are little issues and can obviously be read in many different ways but I feel it is the little things in GBC's behaviour that are the most telling. It's the difference between being genuine and acting the way one thinks one must act in the situation.

Bayside
05-12-2012, 12:46 AM
[QUOTE=TheStupidTree;7908283]POLICE have visited Gerard Baden-Clay at his parent's house this morning, as they continue to search for the killer of his wife Allison.

Two plainclothes detectives arrived at the Kenmore house just after 10am and spoke to Mr Baden-Clay for about 10 minutes at the front door of the house.

http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/queensland/police-visit-husband-as-hunt-continues/story-e6freoof-1226353620719

Why talk at front door in view of media?[/QUOTE

Possibly they may have been there to advise him that the toxicology/autopsy results had come back or perhaps to advise him of an upcoming media release eg ??...in this case there would have been no reason for them to go inside the house but it would be something which had to be communicated in person...

I believe this is correct as he would have his lawyer present if being questioned.

Bayside
05-12-2012, 12:49 AM
anyone seen this ****?

Best Practice - The Great Culture at Century 21 Westside Brisbane - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hy-j7OLePAg&feature=related)

OMG....the sick voice aint happening in this little performance

He is really annoying to watch with the facial movement.

Makara
05-12-2012, 12:52 AM
a trailer is visible at gramps BC home at 0:38 and 0:43sec in this clip Missing Mother - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f82E7DyVRpA)

the screenshot was taken by google street view in December 2009

can anyone identify what the junk at the back of the captiva is.. http://www.google.com.au/imgres?q=baden-clay+car&hl=en&biw=1366&bih=661&gbv=2&tbm=isch&tbnid=AS1eZbNLP_nS-M:&imgrefurl=http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/queensland/police-appeal-over-family-cars/story-e6freoof-1226338105411&docid=wCXoRRBAVOttyM&imgurl=http://resources0.news.com.au/images/2012/04/25/1226338/108680-captiva.jpg&w=650&h=366&ei=Om6tT_H0OaHAiQemv4CYCQ&zoom=1&iact=hc&vpx=352&vpy=161&dur=4983&hovh=168&hovw=299&tx=140&ty=94&sig=105619531397325756967&page=1&tbnh=102&tbnw=181&start=0&ndsp=18&ved=1t:429,r:1,s:0,i:75

I posted the first pic of the rear of the Captiva a while back. In the second pic I've lightened it to show more detail of whatever the thing is behind the Captiva.

http://i127.photobucket.com/albums/p151/Brytech/Rear.jpg

http://i127.photobucket.com/albums/p151/Brytech/Rear2.jpg

http://www.news.com.au/national/search-to-resume-for-missing-brookfield-woman-allison-baden-clay/story-e6frfkvr-1226337675767

CJ60
05-12-2012, 12:53 AM
POLICE have visited Gerard Baden-Clay at his parent's house this morning, as they continue to search for the killer of his wife Allison.

Two plainclothes detectives arrived at the Kenmore house just after 10am and spoke to Mr Baden-Clay for about 10 minutes at the front door of the house.

http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/queensland/police-visit-husband-as-hunt-continues/story-e6freoof-1226353620719

Why talk at front door in view of media?

If the QPS had spent hundreds and hundred of hours, searching for my husband, and were now looking for his killer - not about to give up, I would be eternally grateful! I would not be discussing anything on my doorstep - for Gods sake - it is a murder investigation! He hasn't got the courtesy to invite them in! What picture does this send out to the media - I think this is an appalling way to treat these Detectives. Maybe they should just phone with updates! Don't take up any of GBC's time. Or don't bother updating me at all! And if the media appear disrespectful to GBC - is it any wonder! Yeah - we all behave differently, his kids may be inside - but he could take the detectives in to a room away from the children, or he has probably been told to keep his trap shut and say as little as possible by his lawyers...look at his last PR effort! Yeah Yeah - and if I come across as painting the picture of the QPS being 'heroes' .... say it as it is...JMO!

Bayside
05-12-2012, 12:54 AM
I think this case will come down to "money" more than "mistress".

Bayside
05-12-2012, 01:01 AM
If the QPS had spent hundreds and hundred of hours, searching for my husband, and were now looking for his killer - not about to give up, I would be eternally grateful! I would not be discussing anything on my doorstep - for Gods sake - it is a murder investigation! He hasn't got the courtesy to invite them in! What picture does this send out to the media - I think this is an appalling way to treat these Detectives. Maybe they should just phone with updates! Don't take up any of GBC's time. Or don't bother updating me at all! And if the media appear disrespectful to GBC - is it any wonder! Yeah - we all behave differently, his kids may be inside - but he could take the detectives in to a room away from the children, or he has probably been told to keep his trap shut and say as little as possible by his lawyers...look at his last PR effort! Yeah Yeah - and if I come across as painting the picture of the QPS being 'heroes' .... say it as it is...JMO!

I think it was rude to not invite them in and a bit telling.

I bet the media got excited to see the detectives at his door as it would be boring camped out watching.

Greg
05-12-2012, 01:03 AM
I think this case will come down to "money" more than "mistress".

Yep agreed , life insurance, a will and who would benefit....

Limaes
05-12-2012, 01:11 AM
A few things from this news broadcast:

1. "Police also cordoned off a crime scene near the banks of the Kholo Creek where a womans body was discovered yesterday. Forensic officers took DNA swabs from some snapped shrubs. But it is too early to say whether this is linked to this murder investigation."

I wonder if they tested the shrubs to look for any DNA, or if there was DNA evident to the naked eye and they tested it?

2. GBC's mother emerged from her home at the same time as GBC emerged from a house 6 doors down.

I wonder who lives 6 doors down from Nigelaine?

Body expected to be confirmed as Baden-Clay - YouTube

Bayside
05-12-2012, 01:13 AM
It is so distressing to think of someones life being taken from them in this way..it reduces me to tears. Could anyone claim that they didn't intend to strangle someone? Say that they did it in the heat of the moment? This is obviously not an action that takes place in a moment - it involves deliberately choking the last breath out of someone. It is not like pushing them, and they fall and strike their head. And then to cover it up!!! Someone has to be held accountable for what they have taken from Allison, her children and parents. There is a worthless creep out there - with their freedom, and I am praying for the day that they pay for what they have done.

Its a very brutal way to kill your wife, I thought it would end up being an accident like a head injury from a fight that got out of hand.

minni
05-12-2012, 01:13 AM
one of the number one reasons people kill for? greed,....some people will do anything to get it, to keep it and to stop someone from taking it.....

CJ60
05-12-2012, 01:15 AM
I think it was rude to not invite them in and a bit telling.

I bet the media got excited to see the detectives at his door as it would be boring camped out watching.

These men are looking for his wife's killer - how dare he treat them like that!

So.... I wonder what the media are waiting for??? hope they don't have to wait too long!

I really feel for the little girls, if they are in that house with the press outside. It would be so nice for them to be with the Dickies.

possumheart
05-12-2012, 01:19 AM
From my humble observations, once people have separated their conversations and arguments are about access to and schooling of children in the future ...

Blue Bottle
05-12-2012, 01:23 AM
one of the number one reasons people kill for? greed,....some people will do anything to get it, to keep it and to stop someone from taking it.....
Greed as a motive suggests the implication that those types of murders are premeditated (to a certain degree) rather than 'accidental' or in a moment of 'passion'. ?

CJ60
05-12-2012, 01:26 AM
Its a very brutal way to kill your wife, I thought it would end up being an accident like a head injury from a fight that got out of hand.

It is horrific! I prayed it would be a head injury that Allison had suffered. How can you do that to another living being! So in cases like this the victim is portrayed as an angel and the killer is an evil demon; well, the picture doesn't work the other way around for me - the 'angel' choking the living daylights out of the 'evil demon'. The police are here to protect us against the likes of cold, evil people. Thank god they catch them - and I am sure they do not want to see them go to court and get off scot free! It must be soul destroying...

WSmum
05-12-2012, 01:29 AM
This link if i have done it correctly has some interesting notations in relation to a gold coast property that the BCs owned through a company name & also in regards to BC senior:

http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/national/the-reclusive-side-of-a-grieving-husband-20120512-1yj5w.html

Sounds like the journalist had been reading WS threads

CJ60
05-12-2012, 01:31 AM
From my humble observations, once people have separated their conversations and arguments are about access to and schooling of children in the future ...

Sorry possumheart, if you mean me; I don't mean access or schooling of the children; I mean to be away from the house with the press camped outside - it must be awful for them.. it would be good for them to be with the Dickies away from the cameras at this time - sorry......

Limaes
05-12-2012, 01:33 AM
Sounds like the journalist had been reading WS threads

haha looks that way!

KG1
05-12-2012, 01:36 AM
Another interest report link, this one is from students of journalism at QUT -

http://www.qutnews.com/2012/05/11/baden-clay-investigation-continues/

Kimster
05-12-2012, 01:37 AM
Fixed now

Glad you joined us! :woohoo:

:wagon:

CJ60
05-12-2012, 01:44 AM
Sounds like the journalist had been reading WS threads

Do you think they are taking the mickey (of the friendly neighbourhood marriage enhancement facilitator ) especially as the program is defunct?
I wonder if that really would have helped Allison and GBC?

The press have been handling this case so well; they are being so restrained - JMO!

WSmum
05-12-2012, 01:46 AM
A few things from this news broadcast:

1. "Police also cordoned off a crime scene near the banks of the Kholo Creek where a womans body was discovered yesterday. Forensic officers took DNA swabs from some snapped shrubs. But it is too early to say whether this is linked to this murder investigation."

I wonder if they tested the shrubs to look for any DNA, or if there was DNA evident to the naked eye and they tested it?

2. GBC's mother emerged from her home at the same time as GBC emerged from a house 6 doors down.

I wonder who lives 6 doors down from Nigelaine?

Body expected to be confirmed as Baden-Clay - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nltYzlLa3bk)
In this clip there is a bright yellow car seen on the Kholo bridge along with all the police cars. I remember I think some news footage of a visitor to the senior BC's in a similar colour yellow car(not sure). Does anyone else remember this?Of course prob compl irrelevant

TheStupidTree
05-12-2012, 01:46 AM
I posted on the last page about GBC talking to the cops at the front door. I understand what smne say about it being a quick conversation etc. Personally though if that was me and my hubby was missing the deceased and his death investigated, I would bring them in. But hey, I would have made a statement to ansthe police too. He's says he's helping police all he can - make a formal statement. The only reason not to is if you're involved. If you're innocent, your lawyer doesn't tell you to make no comment or to say nothing to police. No one is above the law, some just think they are. The truth always wins.

TheStupidTree
05-12-2012, 01:48 AM
In this clip there is a bright yellow car seen on the Kholo bridge along with all the police cars. I remember I think some news footage of a visitor to the senior BC's in a similar colour yellow car(not sure). Does anyone else remember this?Of course prob compl irrelevant

I saw pics of someone else getting out of a bright colored car yesterday.

Liadan
05-12-2012, 01:49 AM
If the QPS had spent hundreds and hundred of hours, searching for my husband, and were now looking for his killer - not about to give up, I would be eternally grateful! I would not be discussing anything on my doorstep - for Gods sake - it is a murder investigation! He hasn't got the courtesy to invite them in! What picture does this send out to the media - I think this is an appalling way to treat these Detectives. Maybe they should just phone with updates! Don't take up any of GBC's time. Or don't bother updating me at all! And if the media appear disrespectful to GBC - is it any wonder! Yeah - we all behave differently, his kids may be inside - but he could take the detectives in to a room away from the children, or he has probably been told to keep his trap shut and say as little as possible by his lawyers...look at his last PR effort! Yeah Yeah - and if I come across as painting the picture of the QPS being 'heroes' .... say it as it is...JMO!

When the Police were canvassing Brookfield residents to see if they thought they had seen unusual on the day of ABC dissappearance - they preferred to ask the questions at the door and to not come in even tho they were asked.

WSmum
05-12-2012, 01:49 AM
Do you think they are taking the mickey (of the friendly neighbourhood marriage enhancement facilitator ) especially as the program is defunct?
I wonder if that really would have helped Allison and GBC?

The press have been handling this case so well; they are being so restrained - JMO!

That's how I read it :)

WSmum
05-12-2012, 01:50 AM
I saw pics of someone else getting out of a bright colored car yesterday.

? Did I misssomething. Who?

Curiousasacat
05-12-2012, 01:51 AM
Its a very brutal way to kill your wife, I thought it would end up being an accident like a head injury from a fight that got out of hand.

Yes, me too.

possumheart
05-12-2012, 01:51 AM
In this clip there is a bright yellow car seen on the Kholo bridge along with all the police cars. I remember I think some news footage of a visitor to the senior BC's in a similar colour yellow car(not sure). Does anyone else remember this?Of course prob compl irrelevant

You are correct about the yellow car. Is to the same one that was at BWANA's in the news report?

CJ60
05-12-2012, 01:53 AM
In this clip there is a bright yellow car seen on the Kholo bridge along with all the police cars. I remember I think some news footage of a visitor to the senior BC's in a similar colour yellow car(not sure). Does anyone else remember this?Of course prob compl irrelevant

The one at the house was friend/ex colleague - wouldn't be the one on the bridge - only police on the bridge that day - road blocked off

TheStupidTree
05-12-2012, 01:53 AM
? Did I misssomething. Who?

Someone who has worked closely with GBC and lawyered up.

Bayside
05-12-2012, 01:58 AM
In this clip there is a bright yellow car seen on the Kholo bridge along with all the police cars. I remember I think some news footage of a visitor to the senior BC's in a similar colour yellow car(not sure). Does anyone else remember this?Of course prob compl irrelevant

Great observation skills, but that car belongs to a young police officer sorry.

TheStupidTree
05-12-2012, 01:58 AM
Someone who has worked closely with GBC and lawyered up.

That does look like the sam car. It's one of those bubble looking new vws. But looks in video if it's not on the bridge. Maybe roadside?

possumheart
05-12-2012, 02:02 AM
Sorry possumheart, if you mean me; I don't mean access or schooling of the children; I mean to be away from the house with the press camped outside - it must be awful for them.. it would be good for them to be with the Dickies away from the cameras at this time - sorry......

No CJ60 I was just thinking out loud about generalities. I was wondering where A & G were up to with their separatio and discussions and what might have inflamed him if this was just a domestic dispute gone wrong.

Bayside
05-12-2012, 02:06 AM
These men are looking for his wife's killer - how dare he treat them like that!

So.... I wonder what the media are waiting for??? hope they don't have to wait too long!

I really feel for the little girls, if they are in that house with the press outside. It would be so nice for them to be with the Dickies.

I get the feeling that his parents are more involved with the kids day to day so I think its good for them to have them close at a time like this.

I think the media have handled themselves well considering but I think when things heat up soon they wont be so kind, so that would be a good time to take the kids away to stay elsewhere.

DunnoZo
05-12-2012, 02:08 AM
In this clip there is a bright yellow car seen on the Kholo bridge along with all the police cars. I remember I think some news footage of a visitor to the senior BC's in a similar colour yellow car(not sure). Does anyone else remember this?Of course prob compl irrelevant

That is sooo the same car! well done! well, IMO that's coincidental.

KG1
05-12-2012, 02:09 AM
In this clip there is a bright yellow car seen on the Kholo bridge along with all the police cars. I remember I think some news footage of a visitor to the senior BC's in a similar colour yellow car(not sure). Does anyone else remember this?Of course prob compl irrelevant

TM who was filmed leaving Baden-Clay Snrs house, and also another news clip where she was ambushed by media getting out of her car, show same TM getting out of a bright yellow car.

CJ60
05-12-2012, 02:10 AM
When the Police were canvassing Brookfield residents to see if they thought they had seen unusual on the day of ABC dissappearance - they preferred to ask the questions at the door and to not come in even tho they were asked.

Yes, but this is a little different; they had to be there to discuss the case, and his wife is the victim. It is much more personal. I understand a door knock to see if anyone has seen anything suspicious could be dealt with on the doorstep, but to discuss say, possibly a toxicology report at the door.... or cause of death.... I couldn't imagine a knock on the door, and being told my husband was strangled. It appears he doesn't want them inside, and to me comes across as indifferent to the fact his wife has been killed. JMO. This is why so many people I know feel so negative towards him.
All suggested topics discussed on doorstep just examples on my part - don't want people to read this and say Detectives knocked his door and told him his wife was strangled!

Jaguar88
05-12-2012, 02:16 AM
TM who was filmed leaving Baden-Clay Snrs house, and also another news clip where she was ambushed by media getting out of her car, show same TM getting out of a bright yellow car.

Hi everyone, new to the forum but have been lurking for quite a while, read every post since day 1.

Re the yellow car, looks similar to TM car, but hers has a glass sunroof and the one at the bridge doesn't. They also look slightly different in color, but that could just be the resolution/color saturation of the photos.

CJ60
05-12-2012, 02:17 AM
That does look like the sam car. It's one of those bubble looking new vws. But looks in video if it's not on the bridge. Maybe roadside?

Def not same car - only police allowed in that area - road blocked off from Hawkesbury Rd to Tanderra Way. No one but police anywhere near bridge.
Nice colour! Stands out!

Curiousasacat
05-12-2012, 02:19 AM
Wow, it has been an interesting read today.
This lawyer at the house has me totally confused! WHY would that happen?? WHY would he be there?? The lawyer quite possibly lives close by as this is an "upmarket" area.

I am sorry to send people off an this trailer thing but doesn't anyone think it's odd to see a trailer at that time of the night? There was an embargo on this so anything is possible???
It was strange that the camera was shut down at 423am. JUST TO STATE THIS WAS LAST THURSDAY NIGHT. Remember the original "witness" on F/B said she saw something odd at the roundabout,it was a particular time she saw this. She said it seemed small at the time but now seems odd.

Ok so the weirdest thing happened, a very close friend of mine ended up at the funeral,I won't go into details but she was basically there to assist someone else(this someone is not personally involved with the family but is entrenched in the local area) So this person who called me didn't know too much about the case so I was just drilling them with questions.
My first question- "Did the father look like he was looking after kids well?" She said yes, very much looked like he was a loving father.
Second question-"Did he actually look visibly upset? Yes
Third question-"Did you see any interaction with the other families" She said that when GBC walked in he went over to ABC's dad and shook hands with him. He caressed the mother? I asked again"caressed, not kissed she said no they caressed"
She said the girls are absolutely beautiful.
My friend then said that the lady she was with pointed to a lady in the second row and said that lady was apparently the mistress(this is hearsay,my friend knows nothing about a mistress and this lady could be just a gossip) I asked my friend about this lady and apparently she had dark hair and looked similar to Olivia(GBC's sister) My friend said it was strange as this lady sat there "stone face and emotionless" She had 2 ladies of the same age on either side of her. There were other kids at the funeral(little boys in black suits) who apparently saw this lady and waved. My friend thought they were the sisters children?
Apparently the rumors are that he did not do it but is involved.

I asked out of curiousity if "our hero" Detective Superintendent Mark Ainsworth was there and she said "yes,he still had stitching on the back of his suit like he just bought or hired the suit" Cute!!

Limaes
05-12-2012, 02:21 AM
In this clip there is a bright yellow car seen on the Kholo bridge along with all the police cars. I remember I think some news footage of a visitor to the senior BC's in a similar colour yellow car(not sure). Does anyone else remember this?Of course prob compl irrelevant

It looks as though those cars belong to the police officers. It looks as though a young female officer is about to get in it but the footage cuts to something else.

If the killer disposed of her body around where she was found, I hope to god he/she left a trace of themselves. Hard to explain why your DNA is at the crime scene.

CJ60
05-12-2012, 02:24 AM
I get the feeling that his parents are more involved with the kids day to day so I think its good for them to have them close at a time like this.

I think the media have handled themselves well considering but I think when things heat up soon they wont be so kind, so that would be a good time to take the kids away to stay elsewhere.

That is really comforting to hear - thank you; yes, I do think the media have been wonderful - they have taken very few pics with children in - rightly so. These poor little girls have gone through so much.

Curiousasacat
05-12-2012, 02:26 AM
QT article.
Funeral information and a timeline.

http://www.qt.com.au/story/2012/05/12/we-wont-rest-until-justice-is-delivered/

CJ60
05-12-2012, 02:30 AM
That is sooo the same car! well done! well, IMO that's coincidental.

no...DunnoZo, sorry - no way is it the same car. The one on the bridge has to be police; they were the only people allowed near the bridge, and the road was closed for between Hawkesbury and Tanderra - a few kilometres. The Press were initially getting aerial shots; no one else near the bridge.

The one at the house was the ex work colleague family friend - sorry!

Curiousasacat
05-12-2012, 02:36 AM
I forgot that part.
I said to my friend who went to the funeral how nice it was to see that Allison's mum comforting the children, she said no they were on the other side it was more his parents.
I said oh strange, going by the photo's outside they seem to be in the background more.

Just an observation....

CJ60
05-12-2012, 02:42 AM
Wow, it has been an interesting read today.
This lawyer at the house has me totally confused! WHY would that happen?? WHY would he be there?? The lawyer quite possibly lives close by as this is an "upmarket" area.

I am sorry to send people off an this trailer thing but doesn't anyone think it's odd to see a trailer at that time of the night? There was an embargo on this so anything is possible???
It was strange that the camera was shut down at 423am. JUST TO STATE THIS WAS LAST THURSDAY NIGHT. Remember the original "witness" on F/B said she saw something odd at the roundabout,it was a particular time she saw this. She said it seemed small at the time but now seems odd.

Ok so the weirdest thing happened, a very close friend of mine ended up at the funeral,I won't go into details but she was basically there to assist someone else(this someone is not personally involved with the family but is entrenched in the local area) So this person who called me didn't know too much about the case so I was just drilling them with questions.
My first question- "Did the father look like he was looking after kids well?" She said yes, very much looked like he was a loving father.
Second question-"Did he actually look visibly upset? Yes
Third question-"Did you see any interaction with the other families" She said that when GBC walked in he went over to ABC's dad and shook hands with him. He caressed the mother? I asked again"caressed, not kissed she said no they caressed"
She said the girls are absolutely beautiful.
My friend then said that the lady she was with pointed to a lady in the second row and said that lady was apparently the mistress(this is hearsay,my friend knows nothing about a mistress and this lady could be just a gossip) I asked my friend about this lady and apparently she had dark hair and looked similar to Olivia(GBC's sister) My friend said it was strange as this lady sat there "stone face and emotionless" She had 2 ladies of the same age on either side of her. There were other kids at the funeral(little boys in black suits) who apparently saw this lady and waved. My friend thought they were the sisters children?
Apparently the rumors are that he did not do it but is involved.

I asked out of curiousity if "our hero" Detective Superintendent Mark Ainsworth was there and she said "yes,he still had stitching on the back of his suit like he just bought or hired the suit" Cute!!

Lots to catch up on! Curiousasacat! thanks for your update!

Yep - if anything suss happens to me, please put in a request on my behalf; I would like DS Mark A on my case! That is lovely - 'our hero' DS; and not to forget all the people working under him, in all weather and conditions, looking for Allison ( in particular, those that went down abandoned mine shafts looking for her - putting there own lives at risk) Each and everyone of them, heroes!

Greg
05-12-2012, 02:52 AM
I forgot that part.
I said to my friend who went to the funeral how nice it was to see that Allison's mum comforting the children, she said no they were on the other side it was more his parents.
I said oh strange, going by the photo's outside they seem to be in the background more.

Just an observation....

The kids were primarily hanging around gbc so by default his parents would have had more interaction, the dickies kept there distance as best they could, all the detectives offered condolences to mr Dickie after the service, only mark ainsworth approached gbc and it was more of a cursory gesture rather than the heartfelt condolences offered to the dickies

Okera
05-12-2012, 02:55 AM
Hi everyone, new to the forum but have been lurking for quite a while, read every post since day 1.

Re the yellow car, looks similar to TM car, but hers has a glass sunroof and the one at the bridge doesn't. They also look slightly different in color, but that could just be the resolution/color saturation of the photos.

Hi Everyone, first post and have been obsessed with this forum since the beginning, probably because I know quite a few of the central characters involved.

Just wanted to say that the person who has been seen a few times coming out of Nigelaine's place is not TM. TM is almost 6ft tall and the person with the yellow car is shorter than EBC - so defiantely not the same person.

Curiousasacat
05-12-2012, 02:56 AM
Lots to catch up on! Curiousasacat! thanks for your update!

Yep - if anything suss happens to me, please put in a request on my behalf; I would like DS Mark A on my case! That is lovely - 'our hero' DS; and not to forget all the people working under him, in all weather and conditions, looking for Allison ( in particular, those that went down abandoned mine shafts looking for her - putting there own lives at risk) Each and everyone of them, heroes!

Thank you and you do the same for me : )
Yes, so many people working tirelessly 24 hours a day all over the world. I'm even considering a career change. I want to help find justice for more people.
" putting there own lives at risk) Each and everyone of them, heroes!" ***aww tears*** So true.........

Greg
05-12-2012, 02:57 AM
Hi Everyone, first post and have been obsessed with this forum since the beginning, probably because I know quite a few of the central characters involved.

Just wanted to say that the person who has been seen a few times coming out of Nigelaine's place is not TM. TM is almost 6ft tall and the person with the yellow car is shorter than EBC - so defiantely not the same person.

Yeah I didn't think it looked like her

Cccclllaareb
05-12-2012, 02:58 AM
Just trying to catch up on the latest....
Ok so it was my understanding that strangulation was (yet another) rumour- some people are talking as if it is fact. I don't see that confirmed anywhere-did I miss something?

Personally I see nothing weird about seeing a car with a trailer on the traffic camera on Thursday. I see no reason why a trailer would have been used, have heard no calls for people who saw suspicious trailer activity, and really I just don't believe trailers have anything to do with anything. I cannot think of any logical reason why trailers have been dragged into this to be honest.

Keyboredom
05-12-2012, 02:58 AM
This indicates the murder scene was the scout camp, however IMO the police spent very little time there. But it is possible. Someone else indicated the police were analysing tyre marks found at the scout camp, but is all rumour at this stage. Do we know if the alleged mistress is single or married? If she is single, then it doesn't make sense that they would meed at a bush area and not at her home.

I heard the opposite and that a large team scoured the scout camp and surrounds, in a LOT of detail.

Prepared to hang my hat on some details which i believe will be uncovered when charges are laid:
- one person killed Allison
- Allison was alone with her killer when it happened
- the killing was not premeditated
- the location of her murder was in or around her home
- a further person assisted the killer in disposal ( terrible term) of her body
- Allison was moved inside a vehicle (a car, not a trailer) and was deceased at the time
- her body was left somewhere near the scout camp
- heavy rain and minor flooding moved her body to the place she was discovered
- cause of death was strangulation or asphyxiation, or some form of blunt force but did not involve instruments or tow ball etc

These are just my guesses based on the most likely events based on any facts mentioned and any police statements so far. Shoot me down, my money is on all the above being 95 percent correct. Not as exciting as some theories but I believe this is close to being proven and the case against the killer and accessory/accomplice progressing.

Curiousasacat
05-12-2012, 02:59 AM
The kids were primarily hanging around gbc so by default his parents would have had more interaction, the dickies kept there distance as best they could, all the detectives offered condolences to mr Dickie after the service, only mark ainsworth approached gbc and it was more of a cursory gesture rather than the heartfelt condolences offered to the dickies



Hi Greg, glad you are here...I wanted to ask you if you saw this dark haired lady in the second row???

TheStupidTree
05-12-2012, 02:59 AM
Hello to the 152 guests!

Cccclllaareb
05-12-2012, 03:00 AM
Maybe the BC side just happen to be more involved with the children for whatever reason.

Curiousasacat
05-12-2012, 03:04 AM
I heard the opposite and that a large team scoured the scout camp and surrounds, in a LOT of detail.

Prepared to hang my hat on some details which i believe will be uncovered when charges are laid:
- one person killed Allison
- Allison was alone with her killer when it happened
- the killing was not premeditated
- the location of her murder was in or around her home
- a further person assisted the killer in disposal ( terrible term) of her body
- Allison was moved inside a vehicle (a car, not a trailer) and was deceased at the time
- her body was left somewhere near the scout camp
- heavy rain and minor flooding moved her body to the place she was discovered
- cause of death was strangulation or asphyxiation, or some form of blunt force but did not involve instruments or tow ball etc

These are just my guesses based on the most likely events based on any facts mentioned and any police statements so far. Shoot me down, my money is on all the above being 95 percent correct. Not as exciting as some theories but I believe this is close to being proven and the case against the killer and accessory/accomplice progressing.


Keyboredom, I have to say I couldn't agree more. The mistress stuff is so fun though. :what:

Curiousasacat
05-12-2012, 03:07 AM
hello to the 152 guests!

creepy!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Keyboredom
05-12-2012, 03:07 AM
Keyboredom, I have to say I couldn't agree more. The mistress stuff is so fun though. :what:

My version can still have a mistress inserted as/where needed ;)

CJ60
05-12-2012, 03:08 AM
I heard the opposite and that a large team scoured the scout camp and surrounds, in a LOT of detail.

Prepared to hang my hat on some details which i believe will be uncovered when charges are laid:
- one person killed Allison
- Allison was alone with her killer when it happened
- the killing was not premeditated
- the location of her murder was in or around her home
- a further person assisted the killer in disposal ( terrible term) of her body
- Allison was moved inside a vehicle (a car, not a trailer) and was deceased at the time
- her body was left somewhere near the scout camp
- heavy rain and minor flooding moved her body to the place she was discovered
- cause of death was strangulation or asphyxiation, or some form of blunt force but did not involve instruments or tow ball etc

These are just my guesses based on the most likely events based on any facts mentioned and any police statements so far. Shoot me down, my money is on all the above being 95 percent correct. Not as exciting as some theories but I believe this is close to being proven and the case against the killer and accessory/accomplice progressing.

All of the above - agree; yes, I heard a lot went on up Bunya, too! I do hope you are right about case progressing, and this is going to end in tears for someone soon.

Curiousasacat
05-12-2012, 03:09 AM
Maybe the BC side just happen to be more involved with the children for whatever reason.

I'd say only because the Dickies live down the coast.
They remind me so much of my parents.

Greg
05-12-2012, 03:10 AM
Hi Greg, glad you are here...I wanted to ask you if you saw this dark haired lady in the second row???

I didn't notice her I was quite a few rows back on the left side of the church, I'm pretty sure Olivia and the rest were in the second row

Blue Bottle
05-12-2012, 03:11 AM
This may have been posted at some stage but I came across this site today. It's a bit of a read and answers all different legal questions related to police interviews.


http://www.legalaid.qld.gov.au/legalinformation/thejusticesystem/Dealingswithpolice/Pages/DoIhavetotalktothepolice.aspx


The police want to interview me to tell my side of the story. If I've got nothing to hide it can't hurt to go for a police interview can it?

Yes, it can.

If you say something, it's recorded and you can't take it back. It can be used against you in court (unless you can get the interview thrown out, which is hard).

Even if you've done nothing wrong, you can feel nervous at the interview, misunderstand the question and perhaps answer incorrectly.

You might expect one charge, but what you say can lead to a different, more serious charge or more charges.

You can take a lawyer with you to the interview to advise you, but the lawyer cannot interfere in the interview.



Do I need legal advice?

You should get legal advice if you have concerns about participating in a police interview, providing a DNA sample, or if the police want to talk to you about a serious offence

barrosa
05-12-2012, 03:16 AM
My version can still have a mistress inserted as/where needed ;)

I agree Keyboredom ur on the right track. Thinking of all of you ladies tomorrow as I know our thoughts will be with allusions girls

Limaes
05-12-2012, 03:17 AM
I heard the opposite and that a large team scoured the scout camp and surrounds, in a LOT of detail.

Prepared to hang my hat on some details which i believe will be uncovered when charges are laid:
- one person killed Allison
- Allison was alone with her killer when it happened
- the killing was not premeditated
- the location of her murder was in or around her home
- a further person assisted the killer in disposal ( terrible term) of her body
- Allison was moved inside a vehicle (a car, not a trailer) and was deceased at the time
- her body was left somewhere near the scout camp
- heavy rain and minor flooding moved her body to the place she was discovered
- cause of death was strangulation or asphyxiation, or some form of blunt force but did not involve instruments or tow ball etc

These are just my guesses based on the most likely events based on any facts mentioned and any police statements so far. Shoot me down, my money is on all the above being 95 percent correct. Not as exciting as some theories but I believe this is close to being proven and the case against the killer and accessory/accomplice progressing.

I agree, the thing that I am stumped on is the round-a-bout situation. Did the abettor meet the killer there rather than risk being seen at the house? Did someone see one of them standing by the other's vehicle, possibly in a disheveled state because there was a dead body in it?

barrosa
05-12-2012, 03:17 AM
IPhone!! Allisons girls x

Keyboredom
05-12-2012, 03:19 AM
This may have been posted at some stage but I came across this site today. It's a bit of a read and answers all different legal questions related to police interviews.


http://www.legalaid.qld.gov.au/legalinformation/thejusticesystem/Dealingswithpolice/Pages/DoIhavetotalktothepolice.aspx


The police want to interview me to tell my side of the story. If I've got nothing to hide it can't hurt to go for a police interview can it?

Yes, it can.

If you say something, it's recorded and you can't take it back. It can be used against you in court (unless you can get the interview thrown out, which is hard).

Even if you've done nothing wrong, you can feel nervous at the interview, misunderstand the question and perhaps answer incorrectly.

You might expect one charge, but what you say can lead to a different, more serious charge or more charges.

You can take a lawyer with you to the interview to advise you, but the lawyer cannot interfere in the interview.



Do I need legal advice?

You should get legal advice if you have concerns about participating in a police interview, providing a DNA sample, or if the police want to talk to you about a serious offence


If the police wanted to interview me I would get a lawyer involved ... I've posted this doc before but it's a good read:
http://www.caxton.org.au/pdfs/Police%20Powers%20Your%20Rights.pdf

While I would be keen to protect my rights, always, I would never be so organised or prepared to think of a lawyer if I was frantically worried about a member of my family going missing. I would see the police force as do- whatever-you-need and give them total free rein. I guess that's where I'm different to Gerard, and sounds like many people would behave similar to me, so I hope i'm normal-ish.

minni
05-12-2012, 03:25 AM
Greed as a motive suggests the implication that those types of murders are premeditated (to a certain degree) rather than 'accidental' or in a moment of 'passion'. ?

unless she stumbled onto information that would jepoardise some plan? she could have threatened to expose him? Or she may have found out he was taking money or something?

Makara
05-12-2012, 03:26 AM
I heard the opposite and that a large team scoured the scout camp and surrounds, in a LOT of detail.

Prepared to hang my hat on some details which i believe will be uncovered when charges are laid:
- one person killed Allison
- Allison was alone with her killer when it happened
- the killing was not premeditated
- the location of her murder was in or around her home
- a further person assisted the killer in disposal ( terrible term) of her body
- Allison was moved inside a vehicle (a car, not a trailer) and was deceased at the time
- her body was left somewhere near the scout camp
- heavy rain and minor flooding moved her body to the place she was discovered
- cause of death was strangulation or asphyxiation, or some form of blunt force but did not involve instruments or tow ball etc

These are just my guesses based on the most likely events based on any facts mentioned and any police statements so far. Shoot me down, my money is on all the above being 95 percent correct. Not as exciting as some theories but I believe this is close to being proven and the case against the killer and accessory/accomplice progressing.

Thanks Maverick. :goodpost:

Keyboredom
05-12-2012, 03:26 AM
I agree, the thing that I am stumped on is the round-a-bout situation. Did the abettor meet the killer there rather than risk being seen at the house? Did someone see one of them standing by the other's vehicle, possibly in a disheveled state because there was a dead body in it?

I honestly think the roundabout query is to determine vehicle movement and their occupants. Either the killer or accessory 'may' have had to drive via there. Someone coming from Brookfield might have used that route to avoid the teenage party toward rafting ground/winrock. The accessory might have been forced to go via there depending on where they were coming from. jMO, but I think these are final finesse/details, not major points determining who the police know is involved.

JK673
05-12-2012, 03:26 AM
IPhone!! Allisons girls x

????????? I do not get your post

Keyboredom
05-12-2012, 03:27 AM
Thanks Maverick. :goodpost:

You got me. :rocker: ;)

Thinking
05-12-2012, 03:27 AM
Hi Everyone, first post and have been obsessed with this forum since the beginning, probably because I know quite a few of the central characters involved.

Just wanted to say that the person who has been seen a few times coming out of Nigelaine's place is not TM. TM is almost 6ft tall and the person with the yellow car is shorter than EBC - so defiantely not the same person.

Welcome Okera! :)

And thank you - I thought I was on my own thinking that there is no way the person at Nigelaine's place is TM - apart from the dark hair they look absolutely nothing alike!!!

Limaes
05-12-2012, 03:29 AM
Latest media story - Allison's best friend says her death was a complete shock.

http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/queensland/allison-baden-clay-a-model-mum-says-best-friend/story-e6freoof-1226353690726

Limaes
05-12-2012, 03:31 AM
Welcome Okera! :)

And thank you - I thought I was on my own thinking that there is no way the person at Nigelaine's place is TM - apart from the dark hair they look absolutely nothing alike!!!

Me too! I was looking at another website that has been following this case and am disgusted that they have screen grabbed images of the video and named her as TMac. That is going too far imo.

Limaes
05-12-2012, 03:33 AM
I honestly think the roundabout query is to determine vehicle movement and their occupants. Either the killer or accessory 'may' have had to drive via there. Someone coming from Brookfield might have used that route to avoid the teenage party toward rafting ground/winrock. The accessory might have been forced to go via there depending on where they were coming from. jMO, but I think these are final finesse/details, not major points determining who the police know is involved.

I wonder if a possible abettor's phone pinged to that location?

Curiousasacat
05-12-2012, 03:36 AM
Must go to bed. Night all and Happy Mothers day to our mum's here.
Happy Sleuthing xx

Makara
05-12-2012, 03:37 AM
You got me. :rocker: ;)

;) :floorlaugh:

CaseClosed
05-12-2012, 03:42 AM
Maybe the BC side just happen to be more involved with the children for whatever reason.

Looking at the funeral photos near the hearse, to me it looks like the father is showing a lot of possessive gestures towards the 3 kids, almost like he does not want the Dickies around the kids! Just speculating: if he is the perp, he is probably concerned that the Dickies would apply to be the legal guardians of the girls hence his parents would not be involved in their lives (and neither would he) IMO!

CJ60
05-12-2012, 03:46 AM
If the police wanted to interview me I would get a lawyer involved ... I've posted this doc before but it's a good read:
http://www.caxton.org.au/pdfs/Police%20Powers%20Your%20Rights.pdf

While I would be keen to protect my rights, always, I would never be so organised or prepared to think of a lawyer if I was frantically worried about a member of my family going missing. I would see the police force as do- whatever-you-need and give them total free rein. I guess that's where I'm different to Gerard, and sounds like many people would behave similar to me, so I hope i'm normal-ish.

Yep! that sounds like you belong in the normal -ish basket, with the rest of us; not the narcissistic sociopath basket!

Now, are you sure you ruled out GBC riding around the roundabout on a girls bike, Goony style, with a blonde wig, yellow jacket, towing a kayak on a trailer that was spotted in the garden 3 years ago on google earth?

Makara
05-12-2012, 03:49 AM
Hi Everyone, first post and have been obsessed with this forum since the beginning, probably because I know quite a few of the central characters involved.

Just wanted to say that the person who has been seen a few times coming out of Nigelaine's place is not TM. TM is almost 6ft tall and the person with the yellow car is shorter than EBC - so defiantely not the same person.

Thanks Okera. Almost 6ft tall? Wow. Does anyone know how tall Allison was?

Famous Five
05-12-2012, 03:50 AM
Hi everyone, I've read from first post, first thread and do have some questions I knawing at my brain but will put pen to paper when my phone has been rejuiced, promise.

For now though just one question? Keyboredom, didn't you out yourself as being Maverick.au a few threads back? Lol, I may have read it arse-about though.

Makara
05-12-2012, 03:51 AM
Yep! that sounds like you belong in the normal -ish basket, with the rest of us; not the narcissistic sociopath basket!

Now, are you sure you ruled out GBC riding around the roundabout on a girls bike, Goony style, with a blonde wig, yellow jacket, towing a kayak on a trailer that was spotted in the garden 3 years ago on google earth?

:floorlaugh:

And we all know that the solicitor was having a sleep-over at Gerry's place. :what:

Makara
05-12-2012, 03:51 AM
Hi everyone, I've read from first post, first thread and do have some questions I knawing at my brain but will put pen to paper when my phone has been rejuiced, promise.

For now though just one question? Keyboredom, didn't you out yourself as being Maverick.au a few threads back? Lol, I may have read it arse-about though.

Yes he did and most of you missed it! :floorlaugh:

CJ60
05-12-2012, 03:54 AM
Thanks Maverick. :goodpost:

???? Maverick or Keyboredom....

Keyboredom
05-12-2012, 03:55 AM
Yep! that sounds like you belong in the normal -ish basket, with the rest of us; not the narcissistic sociopath basket!

Now, are you sure you ruled out GBC riding around the roundabout on a girls bike, Goony style, with a blonde wig, yellow jacket, towing a kayak on a trailer that was spotted in the garden 3 years ago on google earth?

^^ you forget, as he was into swinging, he would have been dinky'ing / doubling a crusty old tart in lingerie, carrying a 4 litre cask. That girls bike would have been Malvern star, not that imported rubbish from the chain stores, to carry all that goodness. Down up pedals, down up down, gotta get thru to the other side of town, before the suuuuun goesssss down, hey ay ay.

:what:

CaseClosed
05-12-2012, 03:55 AM
Thanks Okera. Almost 6ft tall? Wow. Does anyone how tall Allison was?

Initial description said 165 cm tall.

Curiousasacat
05-12-2012, 03:56 AM
;) :floorlaugh:


NO!!!! Really???? Good one : )

CJ60
05-12-2012, 03:57 AM
Must go to bed. Night all and Happy Mothers day to our mum's here.
Happy Sleuthing xx

Early night! sleep tight! xx

TheStupidTree
05-12-2012, 03:58 AM
Initial description said 165 cm tall.

That's about 5'5/5'6

Curiousasacat
05-12-2012, 03:58 AM
Early night! sleep tight! xx

Oh my gosh I am really going now. It's 2am where I currently am. AAAAHHHHH

Blue Bottle
05-12-2012, 04:00 AM
If the police wanted to interview me I would get a lawyer involved ... I've posted this doc before but it's a good read:
http://www.caxton.org.au/pdfs/Police%20Powers%20Your%20Rights.pdf

While I would be keen to protect my rights, always, I would never be so organised or prepared to think of a lawyer if I was frantically worried about a member of my family going missing. I would see the police force as do- whatever-you-need and give them total free rein. I guess that's where I'm different to Gerard, and sounds like many people would behave similar to me, so I hope i'm normal-ish.
Thanks for the link, I must have missed it before.

I must admit, if I was in such a position I'd not think to lawyer up and just gab to the cops and later wonder what it was I said. Too much? Too little? Did I wrongly incrimate myself or anyone else? Did I accidently fib? Did that dog really bark or was it something else?

I figure that people in professional type jobs who deal with solicitors and lawyers in the their job on a regular basis are more aware of such matters and would more than likely seek legal advice than the average joe and jane blow.

I learnt heaps regards legal matters when my husband died just over a year ago. We were seperated for over 10 years, had joint property, but not divorced and he'd left everything to me and I was the execturess of his will as well. The fact that we were not divorced gave me full legal 'right'. I saved thousands of dollars by reading Aussie law sites about deceased estates etc and only had the solicitor do minimal, the stuff I couldn't be bothered getting into. The solicitor told me I did well which tickled me pink. He was a neat bloke and had lost his wife only a year before that and was no snake.

After my personal dealings and reading what I have lately, if put in a position of being unsure regards a serious criminal matter I'd seek legal advice too. There are times my mouth shoots out all sorts of verbal stuff much faster than my brain can think.

Keyboredom
05-12-2012, 04:01 AM
???? Maverick or Keyboredom....

Some threads ago a super sleuth suggested myself and maverick.au were one and the same, because I commended his logic (and before Miss Marple says 'how do u know he's a man', he mentioned his wife).

So I am playing along at this stage. Quite happy for the mods to confirm my IP address and his are different, which will of course set off theories that I have a complex web of different ISP's to post different hypotheses about our poor local's murder.

Not a very exciting investigation. The person most interested called me too wordy, in some of the longest forum posts known to humankind. Meanwhile maverick.au escaped completely. I tried, but obviously have too much time on my hands :)

I'm over the personality fun times, just concentrating on facts or very likely scenarios.

Bring on the push bikes and swingers :)

UnfoldingTruth
05-12-2012, 04:01 AM
And let's get something straight for anyone feeling sorry for the killer.....strangulation isn't an accidental escalation of DV, pushing and falling and hitting a head could be......but strangulation is rage....choking the life out of someone to quench their life out, holding their throat squeezing as hard as you can, gritting your teeth and going for broke as they try and scratch back possibly kneeing you in the ribs, fighting for life as he tries to extinguish hers...I'm sure you have all seen it in movies....

Don't offer him sympathy he doesn't deserve it, not one bit!

No if someone does that..sympathy is not the word. However if you are pointing to the husband as a fact, thats not yet proven and I think escalation of DV is a speculation and theory. I think when people were talking about feeling for the husband, its if he is indeed innocent. Nobody is or was condoning or feeling sorry for whoever killed Allison.

Makara
05-12-2012, 04:02 AM
Initial description said 165 cm tall.

Thank you. So 180 cm tall as opposed to 165 cm tall. :notgood:

Keyboredom
05-12-2012, 04:05 AM
Yes he did and most of you missed it! :floorlaugh:

Good god, really ????

I am actually Richard Branson and am coming over for dinner. I just typed that whimsically too, so it's now sleuth-fact.

In the words of GBc's number plate ........ SETTLE !!!

CJ60
05-12-2012, 04:05 AM
^^ you forget, as he was into swinging, he would have been dinky'ing / doubling a crusty old tart in lingerie, carrying a 4 litre cask. That girls bike would have been Malvern star, not that imported rubbish from the chain stores, to carry all that goodness. Down up pedals, down up down, gotta get thru to the other side of town, before the suuuuun goesssss down, hey ay ay.

:what:

:doh:

Keyboredom or Maverick.au?????????

If you are Maverick.au - you are dead if I ever get my hands on you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Wherever you are......

UnfoldingTruth
05-12-2012, 04:06 AM
Thanks for this Brookie. His lawyer lives on the Gold Coast, so he must have received an extremely early morning call if this is the case....

Or night before ;)

CaseClosed
05-12-2012, 04:07 AM
Who cares?? Maverick.au, Keyboredom, etc. We could all have multiples here, but I doubt it.

CaseClosed
05-12-2012, 04:09 AM
Or night before ;)

Hawkins explained that it is not unusual for lawyers to make calls during night hours.

Keyboredom
05-12-2012, 04:10 AM
:doh:

Keyboredom or Maverick.au?????????

If you are Maverick.au - you are dead if I ever get my hands on you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Wherever you are......

I promise, No mavericking happening here. :please:

WSmum
05-12-2012, 04:10 AM
The one at the house was friend/ex colleague - wouldn't be the one on the bridge - only police on the bridge that day - road blocked off

It's in the footage but perhaps isn't the bridge but the police command post

Makara
05-12-2012, 04:12 AM
Good god, really ????

I am actually Richard Branson and am coming over for dinner. I just typed that whimsically too, so it's now sleuth-fact.

In the words of GBc's number plate ........ SETTLE !!!

See you soon Richard. :woohoo:

Seriously, I don't want to sleuth you. Just keep the intelligent and refreshing posts coming.

CaseClosed
05-12-2012, 04:13 AM
9 News has just indicated a "new lead" in Brisbane murder case coming up after the break.

Keyboredom
05-12-2012, 04:14 AM
See you soon Richard. :woohoo:

Seriously, I don't want to sleuth you. Just keep the intelligent and refreshing posts coming.

LOL. I'm busy coaching flight attendants tonight ;)

CJ60
05-12-2012, 04:14 AM
^^ you forget, as he was into swinging, he would have been dinky'ing / doubling a crusty old tart in lingerie, carrying a 4 litre cask. That girls bike would have been Malvern star, not that imported rubbish from the chain stores, to carry all that goodness. Down up pedals, down up down, gotta get thru to the other side of town, before the suuuuun goesssss down, hey ay ay.

:what:

Now that wouldn't be classed as 'out of place'

Great work! :yourock:

CaseClosed
05-12-2012, 04:16 AM
9 News has just indicated a "new lead" in Brisbane murder case coming up after the break.

Different case!!

CJ60
05-12-2012, 04:16 AM
Oh my gosh I am really going now. It's 2am where I currently am. AAAAHHHHH

Thought you were local - man, I am getting everything wrong today!

UnfoldingTruth
05-12-2012, 04:16 AM
Hawkins explained that it is not unusual for lawyers to make calls during night hours.

Missed the explanation. And I wasn't questioning. All I was saying is my belief there was contact the Thurs night.

Straitfan
05-12-2012, 04:18 AM
I heard the opposite and that a large team scoured the scout camp and surrounds, in a LOT of detail.

Prepared to hang my hat on some details which i believe will be uncovered when charges are laid:
- one person killed Allison
- Allison was alone with her killer when it happened
- the killing was not premeditated
- the location of her murder was in or around her home
- a further person assisted the killer in disposal ( terrible term) of her body
- Allison was moved inside a vehicle (a car, not a trailer) and was deceased at the time
- her body was left somewhere near the scout camp
- heavy rain and minor flooding moved her body to the place she was discovered
- cause of death was strangulation or asphyxiation, or some form of blunt force but did not involve instruments or tow ball etc

These are just my guesses based on the most likely events based on any facts mentioned and any police statements so far. Shoot me down, my money is on all the above being 95 percent correct. Not as exciting as some theories but I believe this is close to being proven and the case against the killer and accessory/accomplice progressing.

My thoughts too...exactly..such a sad, sad case, guess they all are tho..

UnfoldingTruth
05-12-2012, 04:18 AM
I am totally confused on posts from today... I am trying to read back from last night and can't find where to start.. was thread 6 closed down?

WSmum
05-12-2012, 04:19 AM
All of the above - agree; yes, I heard a lot went on up Bunya, too! I do hope you are right about case progressing, and this is going to end in tears for someone soon.

From memory one of the early posters said on this forum that they rang the police and suggested they search the scout grounds. That might be why they searched them IMO

Keentoknow
05-12-2012, 04:20 AM
Thanks The Stupid Tree

Lurker on Websleuths
05-12-2012, 04:22 AM
Interestingly under the historial property owners records she jointly owned 3 properties in the area, they were all conjointly owned with the same man over the past decade....the last was sold in 2010 (the last sale making a loss) and the gentleman repurchased another property after that sale in the area solely in his name.

So that might point to a relationshop breakup for TM around July 2010.

When did she start working for GBC?

Ok guys good work on this bit , let me add to it a little. On the day that an ex colleague ( female ) appointed a lawyer , the news grabs for the channel 10 Brisbane 5 pm news had pictures of a large unit block as they were talking about this . MSM connection here. Now if you were a real estate type and had access to that database that contains all the sales information for the 3 transactions that involved the said person , (and yeah they look like they took a small loss
on that one ) , the vendors details for that record an address , now if you look at the details of that last known address for the person it looks like the unit block featured in those news grabs and for me ties in that person as the one helping with enquiries . I hope this helps .

Hillsdon
05-12-2012, 04:23 AM
Hi ho
I am interested in revisiting the Clarevoyant, medium post some threads back. Can anyone put their hand on it easily? Just which thread and post number would do.
Thanks

CJ60
05-12-2012, 04:24 AM
It's in the footage but perhaps isn't the bridge but the police command post

At the showgrounds? Thought someone said the bridge - I'll go back and look

CaseClosed
05-12-2012, 04:27 AM
Hi ho
I am interested in revisiting the Clarevoyant, medium post some threads back. Can anyone put their hand on it easily? Just which thread and post number would do.
Thanks

Mods said that they do not support mediums, tarot, etc. posting. They may have been deleted?

Keyboredom
05-12-2012, 04:28 AM
From memory one of the early posters said on this forum that they rang the police and suggested they search the scout grounds. That might be why they searched them IMO

I rang crime stoppers on Saturday lunch time and suggested Gap Creek Road and the tyomalum scout grounds as worth looking at (both being dark, secluded and close to Allison's last known location) and someone on here also stated they emailed them with info about scout grounds. As far as I know some locals also verbally mentioned scout grounds to police in the week prior, but no proof.

The scout grounds were searched from Monday onwards, after Allison's body was discovered. This is most likely because the scout area is just upstream from the area she was discovered, and that area had obviously been hit with flood waters.
I've maintained from the start she was accidentally washed down there...I still believe everything points to that, from what I've heard

Straitfan
05-12-2012, 04:30 AM
I am totally confused on poast from today... I am trying to read back from last night and can't find where to start.. was thread 6 closed down?

If you go to page one, first post on this thread you can click link to other threads, ie #5, etc.. Not sure why it was moved to "Hot Cases", think it will confuse one's not familar with this site

CaseClosed
05-12-2012, 04:32 AM
I rang crime stoppers on Saturday lunch time and suggested Gap Creek Road and the tyomalum scout grounds as worth looking at (both being dark, secluded and close to Allison's last known location) and someone on here also stated they emailed them with info about scout grounds. As far as I know some locals also verbally mentioned scout grounds to police in the week prior, but no proof.

The scout grounds were searched from Monday onwards, after Allison's body was discovered. This is most likely because the scout area is just upstream from the area she was discovered, and that area had obviously been hit with flood waters.
I've maintained from the start she was accidentally washed down there...I still believe everything points to that, from what I've heard

In my view, it is too much of a coincidence that her body just stopped floating exactly where the bridge is. I think she was dumped/placed there.

Keyboredom
05-12-2012, 04:33 AM
Mods said that they do not support mediums, tarot, etc. posting. They may have been deleted?

Seems a bit unusual not to support clairvoyants considering some of the quite outlandish alternatives that have been discussed. Alicat was first to sense Allison, right where she was discovered... Documented on here well before the announcement. That's 'other worldly' and a lot more real than some speculation.

Keyboredom
05-12-2012, 04:36 AM
In my view, it is too much of a coincidence that her body just stopped floating exactly where the bridge is. I think she was dumped/placed there.

There's a lot of swirling backwash around bridge pylons under flood. I've found large animal carcasses in very similar situations (which again is an awful comparison) following heavy rain and flash flood? Dead bodies after a week or more are likely to be floating and at the mercy of the water flow.

Straitfan
05-12-2012, 04:36 AM
Mods said that they do not support mediums, tarot, etc. posting. They may have been deleted?

Not sure but I do believe there is info re: mediums, etc may be in the "jury room" thread , have to be a member to read. Kimster I'm sure would know where it is.

WSmum
05-12-2012, 04:37 AM
???? Maverick or Keyboredom....

I d be more impressed if someone owned up to being Rexo

Ippygal
05-12-2012, 04:39 AM
Hi all seem to be spending far too much time on here, takes me hours upon hours to catch up lol. I drove over the bridge today my mum lives near there, was quite an odd feeling..... I heard a rumour... Just rumour of course that poor Allisons body may have been (hate to use this word ), "dumped" right up near the Mt Crosby weir... I notice the road over the weir has been closed for over a week.... Anything in that possibly??? Just thought I'd put it out there.... Love reading everyone's theories... But "Keyboredom" I think you are right on the money!

Fuskier
05-12-2012, 04:40 AM
In this clip there is a bright yellow car seen on the Kholo bridge along with all the police cars. I remember I think some news footage of a visitor to the senior BC's in a similar colour yellow car(not sure). Does anyone else remember this?Of course prob compl irrelevant
WOW! It is the same car we saw the dark haired woman getting out of at the BC home.
She has visited the crime site where they found ABC.

Keyboredom
05-12-2012, 04:42 AM
Hi all seem to be spending far too much time on here, takes me hours upon hours to catch up lol. I drove over the bridge today my mum lives near there, was quite an odd feeling..... I heard a rumour... Just rumour of course that poor Allisons body may have been (hate to use this word ), "dumped" right up near the Mt Crosby weir... I notice the road over the weir has been closed for over a week.... Anything in that possibly??? Just thought I'd put it out there.... Love reading everyone's theories... But "Keyboredom" I think you are right on the money!

I've heard the weir mentioned too. It could still be an alternative to the suggested scout ground dumping, but from what I've heard it's definitely the scout ground it's been narrowed down too. Less likely witnesses to the entry to scout area also.

Straitfan
05-12-2012, 04:43 AM
In my view, it is too much of a coincidence that her body just stopped floating exactly where the bridge is. I think she was dumped/placed there.

It's not odd to me, reminds me of Lacy Peterson case...Think she did end up there for a reason, to be found, sadly... and I am glad she was found tho horrible its better than never knowing.

UnfoldingTruth
05-12-2012, 04:44 AM
If you go to page one, first post on this thread you can click link to other threads, ie #5, etc.. Not sure why it was moved to "Hot Cases", think it will confuse one's not familar with this site

Thanks. I was all up to date until last night. have logged on here now and totally confused. trying to find end of last nights posts and todays. It appears jumbled(or perhaps its just my brain).. I know to look at the start of the thread for the previous ones, but am still a bit lost at the moment.

Strangeworld
05-12-2012, 04:45 AM
Would he really take Allison to grounds so strongly associated with his heritage? Just seems unlikely to me.

Ippygal
05-12-2012, 04:45 AM
The whole connection with the scout grounds astounds me given GBC'S family connection.. Assuming he is involved of course...

Straitfan
05-12-2012, 04:47 AM
I d be more impressed if someone owned up to being Rexo

Lol, y'all Aussie's are hilarous... Not me, I'm a Texan, couldn't fake it if I tried :)

Keentoknow
05-12-2012, 04:48 AM
Seems a bit unusual not to support clairvoyants considering some of the quite outlandish alternatives that have been discussed. Alicat was first to sense Allison, right where she was discovered... Documented on here well before the announcement. That's 'other worldly' and a lot more real than some speculation.

The clairvoyant that you are looking for is called ......Empathy Insight.

Neuromancer
05-12-2012, 04:49 AM
Prepared to hang my hat on some details which i believe will be uncovered when charges are laid:
- one person killed Allison
- Allison was alone with her killer when it happened
- the killing was not premeditated
- the location of her murder was in or around her home
- a further person assisted the killer in disposal ( terrible term) of her body
- Allison was moved inside a vehicle (a car, not a trailer) and was deceased at the time
- her body was left somewhere near the scout camp
- heavy rain and minor flooding moved her body to the place she was discovered
- cause of death was strangulation or asphyxiation, or some form of blunt force but did not involve instruments or tow ball etc



Agree, which is pretty much where we were a week ago :)

Journos were asking Ainsworth for confirmation of strangulation the day A's body was found, and that's always felt right to me (and makes me optimistic of them proving murder by neck bone/cartilage damage), and anyway it's the most popular way to kill a woman without weapons.

Still open on river position - I'm prolly about 60/40 to upstream -
Pro: less chance of witnesses when dumping, and i find it unlikely that it could have been missed under the bridge for up to a week (allowing for a previous few days sunken)
Con: a lot of snags in creek, not sure how far it could travel unimpeded.
Either way it doesn't really matter, as long as they can find evidence somewhere.

I think the roundabout stuff is just a matter of verifying vehicle movements - I don't think children, trailers, bodies, speedboats or suspicious looking briefcases were exchanged there. Are you real going to do anything suss in the most well-lit place for miles?

There didn't need to be anything more to make police suss on day 1 beyond scratch marks and demeanor (we've seen the performance after almost a week's practice; shudder to think what it was like previously) altho if i had to bet on anything I'd say organic matter in car.

CaseClosed
05-12-2012, 04:50 AM
At this time, Websleuths does not allow or condone the discussion of psychics, tarot readings, numerology or the paranormal.

We appreciate their efforts, but feel this is not always the best aid in helping victims or their families.

SoSueMe
WS Admin. Mgr./Co-Owner

This is what was posted by Mods earlier in this thread.

CaseClosed
05-12-2012, 04:53 AM
WOW! It is the same car we saw the dark haired woman getting out of at the BC home.
She has visited the crime site where they found ABC.

I'm pretty sure there are different cars. The one at the bridge is a VW Buggie, very light yellow. The other one at the BCs home is a darker yellow and not a VW IMO.

Neuromancer
05-12-2012, 04:54 AM
Thanks Maverick. :goodpost:

LOL - don't see why that would have to be maverick - it's the logical conclusions many people would draw on the evidence so far.

CJ60
05-12-2012, 04:55 AM
Hi all seem to be spending far too much time on here, takes me hours upon hours to catch up lol. I drove over the bridge today my mum lives near there, was quite an odd feeling..... I heard a rumour... Just rumour of course that poor Allisons body may have been (hate to use this word ), "dumped" right up near the Mt Crosby weir... I notice the road over the weir has been closed for over a week.... Anything in that possibly??? Just thought I'd put it out there.... Love reading everyone's theories... But "Keyboredom" I think you are right on the money!

It's not closed - I saw that sign there, and went to check why because it wasn't on the traffic website as closed; it was open - I drove over it. I thought the same - but not sure if pumping station is manned at night? what the current is like - and look at all the crap at Colleges.... trees etc, she may not have got past there.. I think we have all been looking for her - especially near water.

Nads
05-12-2012, 04:57 AM
It's so sad for Allison's girls that it's Mother's Day tomorrow.

I hope police are able to get more evidence and move faster than the Max Sica arrest did.

The perpetrator sure was lucky the body wasn't found for ten days so a lot of evidence would have been lost.

CaseClosed
05-12-2012, 04:57 AM
Would he really take Allison to grounds so strongly associated with his heritage? Just seems unlikely to me.

Totally agree with your view.

Neuromancer
05-12-2012, 04:58 AM
Now, are you sure you ruled out GBC riding around the roundabout on a girls bike, Goony style, with a blonde wig, yellow jacket, towing a kayak on a trailer that was spotted in the garden 3 years ago on google earth?

...and doubling a lawyer?

willough
05-12-2012, 04:59 AM
Who cares?? Maverick.au, Keyboredom, etc. We could all have multiples here, but I doubt it.

Agree.....and I dont think anyone missed it at all......I just think no-one cared. Purely because of the above reasons. Anyone could have multiples on here. Personally, why bother, unless you are wanting to put conflicting arguments forward......and even if that is ones reason, they are just plain WEIRD.

On so many forums you get people doing it though...and again, I just find it WEIRD.

Neuromancer
05-12-2012, 04:59 AM
:floorlaugh:

And we all know that the solicitor was having a sleep-over at Gerry's place. :what:

Haha beat me to it (I'm just answering as I read lol)

WSmum
05-12-2012, 04:59 AM
Lol, y'all Aussie's are hilarous... Not me, I'm a Texan, couldn't fake it if I tried :)

Hey Texas! Been to Texas and loved it... Reminded me quite a bit of qld but the bourbon is better here (at least that's what I thought after Dallas night out)

CJ60
05-12-2012, 05:03 AM
...and doubling a lawyer?

Oh man..the other comedian is back! Good evening!

Well, there are suggestions of a sleepover... explains why here was there bright eyed and bushy tailed at the crack of dawn.

SPECULATION!

Oh.. you know this..

willough
05-12-2012, 05:04 AM
But "Keyboredom" I think you are right on the money!

I think so too.....I think, he, she or they are right on the money. :floorlaugh:

CaseClosed
05-12-2012, 05:05 AM
Agree.....and I dont think anyone missed it at all......I just think no-one cared. Purely because of the above reasons. Anyone could have multiples on here. Personally, why bother, unless you are wanting to put conflicting arguments forward......and even if that is ones reason, they are just plain WEIRD.

On so many forums you get people doing it though...and again, I just find it WEIRD.


The only time I have seen someone with multiple IDs in a forum has been because they have been banned/put on time out for some reason, however, they were quickly identified by the ISP address (unless they were posting from a different location, i.e. office instead of home.)

Famous Five
05-12-2012, 05:09 AM
These are a few points that either don't add up for me or are in the 'alternative theory' basket (as opposed to IMO).
If G & A were in fact separated, is it possible that G didn't stay at the 'marital' home that night? He was, perhaps, there in the evening and again in the AM when he dropped the girls to school but at his parents/elsewhere to sleep. He may have regularly had the girls overnight if they were living in different homes.
This rolls on to my next point.
Why did he call 000 as opposed to the local police number? Unless of course he went to the house because Allison's car was still there when she should have left already and he found signs of a struggle? The 000 call has really bothered me; surely it would make more sense to call a station. But then why did police respond so quickly to the call, for all intents and purposes a missing person call, unless there was a history of violence as discussed previously.

Alt. theory: Bad business dealings/ bad blood from a realationship one or both were involved with, person comes over after G has left, nasty situation ensues, the white 4x4 is used by unkown person/people to move Allison's body, G comes back to the house to find disarray, calls police etc and is now acting as a foil for the investigators?

I haven't been overly specific with details or referenced some of my points which I know have been suggested before, but it is possible the WhoDunnit is not so cut and dried.

Do I duck now?? I love the humorous and tounge in cheek style of some members BTW. Lol

CJ60
05-12-2012, 05:14 AM
Agree.....and I dont think anyone missed it at all......I just think no-one cared. Purely because of the above reasons. Anyone could have multiples on here. Personally, why bother, unless you are wanting to put conflicting arguments forward......and even if that is ones reason, they are just plain WEIRD.

On so many forums you get people doing it though...and again, I just find it WEIRD.

I missed it - and there is only one of me here. If I spent time on here as a multiple I think I would be permanently sat at my laptop - 24/7. Actually I feel like that now!

CaseClosed
05-12-2012, 05:15 AM
These are a few points that either don't add up for me or are in the 'alternative theory' basket (as opposed to IMO).
If G & A were in fact separated, is it possible that G didn't stay at the 'marital' home that night? He was, perhaps, there in the evening and again in the AM when he dropped the girls to school but at his parents/elsewhere to sleep. He may have regularly had the girls overnight if they were living in different homes.
This rolls on to my next point.
Why did he call 000 as opposed to the local police number? Unless of course he went to the house because Allison's car was still there when she should have left already and he found signs of a struggle? The 000 call has really bothered me; surely it would make more sense to call a station. But then why did police respond so quickly to the call, for all intents and purposes a missing person call, unless there was a history of violence as discussed previously.

Alt. theory: Bad business dealings/ bad blood from a realationship one or both were involved with, person comes over after G has left, nasty situation ensues, the white 4x4 is used by unkown person/people to move Allison's body, G comes back to the house to find disarray, calls police etc and is now acting as a foil for the investigators?

I haven't been overly specific with details or referenced some of my points which I know have been suggested before, but it is possible the WhoDunnit is not so cut and dried.

Do I duck now?? I love the humorous and tounge in cheek style of some members BTW. Lol

My question is: Do we know from media that he in fact called 000? I haven't read anything about that. To my knowledge the media just said that he contacted police.

Lulubird
05-12-2012, 05:16 AM
Does he say... Ō'm trying to look after my children at the moment... THEY'VE got three young girls?"

I believe he does.

And, if you look at that clip again, you can see how almost as soon as he has said that, he does that smacking thing with his lips, almost a "tsk" which indicates to me an "Oops, didn't mean to say that" moment.

Makara
05-12-2012, 05:23 AM
I'm pretty sure there are different cars. The one at the bridge is a VW Buggie, very light yellow. The other one at the BCs home is a darker yellow and not a VW IMO.

Thanks CaseClosed. IMO they are different cars. See images below. The car at the BC house has a sunroof and the one in the video doesn't.

CLICK IMAGE TO ENLARGE.

The car at BC's house.
http://i127.photobucket.com/albums/p151/Brytech/th_At-BC-house.jpg (http://i127.photobucket.com/albums/p151/Brytech/At-BC-house.jpg)


CLICK IMAGE TO ENLARGE.

Car from the video.
http://i127.photobucket.com/albums/p151/Brytech/th_Video-car.jpg (http://i127.photobucket.com/albums/p151/Brytech/Video-car.jpg)

Famous Five
05-12-2012, 05:27 AM
My question is: Do we know from media that he in fact called 000? I haven't read anything about that. To my knowledge the media just said that he contacted police.

That really sums it up beautifully CaseClosed; how much of anything does the public actually know as real and unquestioable facts about this apart from the fact that a beautiful and lovely woman lost her life?

Limaes
05-12-2012, 05:30 AM
In my view, it is too much of a coincidence that her body just stopped floating exactly where the bridge is. I think she was dumped/placed there.

Agreed. I'm not a local nor have I ever been there. All I have to go on is news footage and Google street view. I just can't see how she would travel unaffected by debris and overgrowth and make a sharp turn to the left to end up where she did? Sorry if this sounds gross, just trying to make sense of it.

Plus, they did find "snapped shrubs" in the area she was found.

Neuromancer
05-12-2012, 05:31 AM
These are a few points that either don't add up for me or are in the 'alternative theory' basket (as opposed to IMO).
If G & A were in fact separated, is it possible that G didn't stay at the 'marital' home that night? He was, perhaps, there in the evening and again in the AM when he dropped the girls to school but at his parents/elsewhere to sleep. He may have regularly had the girls overnight if they were living in different homes.

Looked like if staying anywhere else it would have been with parents - it's where he seems to be all the time and computer was taken from there.

IMO the issue of married/separated is trivial. These things are messy and ill-defined at the best of times.


Why did he call 000 as opposed to the local police number? Unless of course he went to the house because Allison's car was still there when she should have left already and he found signs of a struggle? The 000 call has really bothered me; surely it would make more sense to call a station. But then why did police respond so quickly to the call, for all intents and purposes a missing person call, unless there was a history of violence as discussed previously.

Yes this is suss - overkill. A mess like the rest of the morning story.



Alt. theory: Bad business dealings/ bad blood from a realationship one or both were involved with, person comes over after G has left, nasty situation ensues, the white 4x4 is used by unkown person/people to move Allison's body, G comes back to the house to find disarray, calls police etc and is now acting as a foil for the investigators?


Too messy to be preplanned IMO (altho not saying it wasn't pre-mediated). Whole thing reeks of drama, panic, stupid decisions made in a rush.
Why would anyone else bother moving her? If you wanted to do a hit to get back at him, you'd leave her there and make it look like he did it.
or if you were on husb's side, you'd make sure it happened when he had a good alibi, and possibly out of the area.

minni
05-12-2012, 05:34 AM
These are a few points that either don't add up for me or are in the 'alternative theory' basket (as opposed to IMO).
If G & A were in fact separated, is it possible that G didn't stay at the 'marital' home that night? He was, perhaps, there in the evening and again in the AM when he dropped the girls to school but at his parents/elsewhere to sleep. He may have regularly had the girls overnight if they were living in different homes.
This rolls on to my next point.
Why did he call 000 as opposed to the local police number? Unless of course he went to the house because Allison's car was still there when she should have left already and he found signs of a struggle? The 000 call has really bothered me; surely it would make more sense to call a station. But then why did police respond so quickly to the call, for all intents and purposes a missing person call, unless there was a history of violence as discussed previously.

Alt. theory: Bad business dealings/ bad blood from a realationship one or both were involved with, person comes over after G has left, nasty situation ensues, the white 4x4 is used by unkown person/people to move Allison's body, G comes back to the house to find disarray, calls police etc and is now acting as a foil for the investigators?

I haven't been overly specific with details or referenced some of my points which I know have been suggested before, but it is possible the WhoDunnit is not so cut and dried.

Do I duck now?? I love the humorous and tounge in cheek style of some members BTW. Lol

here's an idea...the police had reason to believe something was wrong because GBC told them something was very wrong!! If he did in fact return to the house and find signs of a struggle, he could very well have called 000 in this case...this would mean he was innocent of course and we all have trouble with that one sometimes..
another theory following your same concern re:000, maybe it was premeditated, and GBC got someone else to do his dirty work.....he could 'wake up' or 'return to house', find (shock) signs of a struggle and call 000? what would police likely report to the public if they honestly believed she had met with foul play but didn't suspect GBC? would they alert the public or maybe start an immediate massive manhunt? because thats what they did

TheStupidTree
05-12-2012, 05:35 AM
[QUOTE=Makara;7909220]Thanks CaseClosed. IMO they are different cars. See images below. The car at the BC house has a sunroof and the one in the video doesn't.]



how many spokes on each wheel of each car?


Bwahaha

Elspeth
05-12-2012, 05:35 AM
These are a few points that either don't add up for me or are in the 'alternative theory' basket (as opposed to IMO).
If G & A were in fact separated, is it possible that G didn't stay at the 'marital' home that night? He was, perhaps, there in the evening and again in the AM when he dropped the girls to school but at his parents/elsewhere to sleep. He may have regularly had the girls overnight if they were living in different homes.
This rolls on to my next point.
Why did he call 000 as opposed to the local police number? Unless of course he went to the house because Allison's car was still there when she should have left already and he found signs of a struggle? The 000 call has really bothered me; surely it would make more sense to call a station. But then why did police respond so quickly to the call, for all intents and purposes a missing person call, unless there was a history of violence as discussed previously.

Alt. theory: Bad business dealings/ bad blood from a realationship one or both were involved with, person comes over after G has left, nasty situation ensues, the white 4x4 is used by unkown person/people to move Allison's body, G comes back to the house to find disarray, calls police etc and is now acting as a foil for the investigators?

I haven't been overly specific with details or referenced some of my points which I know have been suggested before, but it is possible the WhoDunnit is not so cut and dried.

Do I duck now?? I love the humorous and tounge in cheek style of some members BTW. Lol

There are certainly similarities in what you are saying to the Joanna Yeates murder in the UK in December 2010 which I have mentioned previously...

Karo
05-12-2012, 05:36 AM
Has it been determined that he called 000? Most people would not know that there is a normal police number to call, I think.

Neuromancer
05-12-2012, 05:36 AM
deleted

Neuromancer
05-12-2012, 05:43 AM
here's an idea...the police had reason to believe something was wrong because GBC told them something was very wrong!! If he did in fact return to the house and find signs of a struggle, he could very well have called 000 in this case...this would mean he was innocent of course and we all have trouble with that one sometimes..
another theory following your same concern re:000, maybe it was premeditated, and GBC got someone else to do his dirty work.....he could 'wake up' or 'return to house', find (shock) signs of a struggle and call 000? what would police likely report to the public if they honestly believed she had met with foul play but didn't suspect GBC? would they alert the public or maybe start an immediate massive manhunt? because thats what they did

Quote from parents "He told us she went for a walk and never returned".
Reporting of GBC's stories to police has been mixed, but nothing about struggle etc.

And again - if organised, it might look a bit more....organised?

Makara
05-12-2012, 05:43 AM
[QUOTE=Makara;7909220]Thanks CaseClosed. IMO they are different cars. See images below. The car at the BC house has a sunroof and the one in the video doesn't.]



how many spokes on each wheel of each car?


Bwahaha

:floorlaugh:

CJ60
05-12-2012, 05:44 AM
Agree, which is pretty much where we were a week ago :)

Journos were asking Ainsworth for confirmation of strangulation the day A's body was found, and that's always felt right to me (and makes me optimistic of them proving murder by neck bone/cartilage damage), and anyway it's the most popular way to kill a woman without weapons.

Still open on river position - I'm prolly about 60/40 to upstream -
Pro: less chance of witnesses when dumping, and i find it unlikely that it could have been missed under the bridge for up to a week (allowing for a previous few days sunken)
Con: a lot of snags in creek, not sure how far it could travel unimpeded.
Either way it doesn't really matter, as long as they can find evidence somewhere.


I am still leaning towards upstream. We had so much rain that
I think the roundabout stuff is just a matter of verifying vehicle movements - I don't think children, trailers, bodies, speedboats or suspicious looking briefcases were exchanged there. Are you real going to do anything suss in the most well-lit place for miles?

There didn't need to be anything more to make police suss on day 1 beyond scratch marks and demeanor (we've seen the performance after almost a week's practice; shudder to think what it was like previously) altho if i had to bet on anything I'd say organic matter in car.

Definitely not over side of bridge; possible at site of bridge - but once Allison resurfaced, river is tidal - so I agree; can't imagine her not being seen earlier. Kayakers use the river - it isn't that far from the mouth of the river itself and people were keeping a lookout - even up here. Also, if there were air searches along waterways, Allison would have been seen at low tide , if search carried out at low tide( I know they were not searching as thoroughly up here - if at all ??)

I think upstream - I drained my pool twice; hell of a lot of water would have drained into Camerons and Flaggy Creek - end up in Kholo Creek ( not from my pool!) so Allison could easily have been carried downstream. But yep - forensics should tell where. Duh - the Scout Camp?? well if we are all suspecting the same person - he doesn't appear to have been on his best form when using his noggin that night! That is me being polite!

So roundabout - is that just to confirm if someone/ more than one person, was out and about when they said they were in bed? because it was mentioned 'anything out of place' we have had some really out there theories!

Thinking
05-12-2012, 05:46 AM
Hi all - I have not read any article or report that said GBC called 000.

mumof2
05-12-2012, 05:50 AM
ooh snap - the canoeing guide I linked a few days back, had detailed instructions about how to navigate that last turn, since apparently it's a bit of a doozy. (under the photo it says "turn right after tree - caution!")
Landing spot "past the bridge on the left at a gravel bank" is just past where A was found.
_________
http://www.upstreampaddle.com/kholo.html

"Note that at the very end just before Kholo, there is a long pool 4 kilometre long. Here the river blind alleys, and the flowing stream moves right 400 metres before the dead end. Keep close to the right bank to pick the turn. Just downstream, stay clear of the pump station, and land either on the upstream side of the bridge on the right, or past the bridge on the left at a gravel bank. Note that vehicles are not secure overnight at this location. Further downstream is a restricted area, being water backupped from the Mt. Crosby water treatment plant weir."
________

this kyaking link is actually to a different area - she was found under the kholo creek bridge on mt crosby rd in brisbane - the weblink is to kholo bridge over the brisbane river at muirlea which is in ipswich. if you look at the info map on that site, the site she was found at would be off to the far right way off the map. you need to look for mt crosby road kholo creek bridge on suburb boundary of anstead/mt crosby

Makara
05-12-2012, 05:51 AM
Is it feasible to believe that a 6ft tall woman could easily overpower and strangle a woman of say 5' 6"? Yeah, I know - it would depend on how strong each of them were. Just thinking out loud is all.

minni
05-12-2012, 05:52 AM
Quote from parents "He told us she went for a walk and never returned".
Reporting of GBC's stories to police has been mixed, but nothing about struggle etc.

And again - if organised, it might look a bit more....organised?

hahaha yes, you would think so....
but we don't really know what was reported to police? only what they choose to tell us and what they released may have be aimed at misleading someone?....I am just thinking about the immediate search, and what could have caused it to be so big so quickly...if there was such an obvious suspicion of GBC as in enough to get half the QPS on it straight away, then I just think they would have maybe acted differently with him? my words arent getting out to well tonight I know what I want to say, but it sounds wrong...oh well see if you can decipher this one

bikerchick
05-12-2012, 05:53 AM
Just a thought.

TM is tall and quite stocky (have seen several open houses with her) and could have easily overpowered me (I'm the same height as Allison). She has a distinctive appearance (gap between front teeth) and is divorced with kids.

Maybe GBC has been helping the police - as the accessory to the murder?

Susan12
05-12-2012, 05:53 AM
Just thinking out loud.... Hypothetically if the person responsible for ABC's death was not GBC, say it was the mistress, and he had no involvement in her demise then if GBC was involved in covering it up in any way then in my view that's quite disrespectful to Allison and his daughters. I'm not sure who is responsible for ABC's death but based on GBC's behavior when she was missing I can't help but wonder if he at least knows something about what did happen.

If he is innocent of everything though, imagine what he must be going through losing his wife and being under suspicion. Probably not good for what sounds to have already been a struggling business too.

Hopefully the truth will be revealed, whatever that may be.

CaseClosed
05-12-2012, 05:54 AM
Is it feasible to believe that a 6ft tall woman could easily overpower and strangle a woman of say 5' 6"? Yeah, I know - it would depend on how strong each of them were. Just thinking out loud is all.

I don't think so. Women would probably hit, punch the head, grab the hair, grab a rock, kick, etc. Not strong enough to strangulate.

CaseClosed
05-12-2012, 05:58 AM
Just a thought.

TM is tall and quite stocky (have seen several open houses with her) and could have easily overpowered me (I'm the same height as Allison). She has a distinctive appearance (gap between front teeth) and is divorced with kids.

Maybe GBC has been helping the police - as the accessory to the murder?

I would think it is the other way around: TM helping the police with all she knows, trying to save her own skin.

CJ60
05-12-2012, 05:59 AM
ooh snap - the canoeing guide I linked a few days back, had detailed instructions about how to navigate that last turn, since apparently it's a bit of a doozy. (under the photo it says "turn right after tree - caution!")
Landing spot "past the bridge on the left at a gravel bank" is just past where A was found.
_________
http://www.upstreampaddle.com/kholo.html

"Note that at the very end just before Kholo, there is a long pool 4 kilometre long. Here the river blind alleys, and the flowing stream moves right 400 metres before the dead end. Keep close to the right bank to pick the turn. Just downstream, stay clear of the pump station, and land either on the upstream side of the bridge on the right, or past the bridge on the left at a gravel bank. Note that vehicles are not secure overnight at this location. Further downstream is a restricted area, being water backupped from the Mt. Crosby water treatment plant weir."
________

I think you are in the wrong part of the river; this is upstream from the Weir.
This is Burtons Bridge to Kholo Bridge. May sound stupid - but Kholo Bridge and Kholo Creek Crossing are two totally different places. I will find a map with both on if I can.

AllyG
05-12-2012, 05:59 AM
That's about 5'5/5'6
She was the same height as me :(

Neuromancer
05-12-2012, 06:02 AM
this kyaking link is actually to a different area - she was found under the kholo creek bridge on mt crosby rd in brisbane - the weblink is to kholo bridge over the brisbane river at muirlea which is in ipswich. if you look at the info map on that site, the site she was found at would be off to the far right way off the map. you need to look for mt crosby road kholo creek bridge on suburb boundary of anstead/mt crosby

Oh gosh! so it is - thanks!

itsthevibe
05-12-2012, 06:02 AM
And let's get something straight for anyone feeling sorry for the killer.....strangulation isn't an accidental escalation of DV, pushing and falling and hitting a head could be......but strangulation is rage....choking the life out of someone to quench their life out, holding their throat squeezing as hard as you can, gritting your teeth and going for broke as they try and scratch back possibly kneeing you in the ribs, fighting for life as he tries to extinguish hers...I'm sure you have all seen it in movies....

Don't offer him sympathy he doesn't deserve it, not one bit!

YES!! Exactly. And this issue has been bugging me for days as I read and hear more and more casually worded comments as if - if it wasn't premeditated it was accidental. There are a lot of horrific MURDERS which are neither pre-meditated nor accidental. If it is not pre-meditated, that doesnt mean you didnt murder them, didnt want to silence them by killing and, as Greg described, make a concerted effort to ensure they were dead.

So, it can very often mean that even if you didnt plan to murder them in advance, at the time of killing you did what had to be done to make sure of it, despite your victims pleas or their fight for life, and you looked at them and saw the terror in their face and it didnt have any affect on you, or might have ven made you feel powerful, it certainly didn't stop you, you just kept going until you were sure there was no life left in them. Then after the fact you might have thought, oh s*** I've changed my mind!

Murder by a partner, for example, is the ultimate DV escalation. If it is strangulation or smothering well as Greg has described with strangulation it takes an effort to ensure the person is killed, and who smothers someone accidentally for gods sake? From the reports about the body it appears Allison wasn't bludgeoned or stabbed to death so IMO accidental has nothing to do with it.

What is the world coming to when people can chat so casually and thoughtlessly about this aspect of it? A sign we are becoming conditioned to violence and not thoughtful enough about the seriousness of domestic violence and what it can lead to. Or a sign of just general slackness and not taking seriously the importance of language used? I'm going to take a break and cool my anger as a rational, responsible adult would do. Unlike murderers who choose to allow their feelings, desires and emotions to run rampant and destroy and ruin peoples lives.

And yes, i am well aware there are some legal defenses regarding diminished responsibility and heat of rage sort of stuff. I don't know all the details of those laws but I'm pretty sure they have been applied too laxly in many cases.

NOTE - This post falls where it may, not reacting to the most recent posts, or any particular post other than the one quoted as I'm still catching up with about 7 pages to go.

TheStupidTree
05-12-2012, 06:02 AM
I don't think so. Women would probably hit, punch the head, grab the hair, grab a rock, kick, etc. Not strong enough to strangulate.

I think they can. Adrenalin does amazing things. Also if you're straddling someone and using body weight.

Kinda don't wanna think about it actually..

clem1970
05-12-2012, 06:02 AM
I don't think so. Women would probably hit, punch the head, grab the hair, grab a rock, kick, etc. Not strong enough to strangulate.

I agree. IMO the only way a woman could strangle another woman is if a garotte was used or if the woman had unusually large and strong hands. Strangulation does not just happen in a few seconds like they show in the movies.

Makara
05-12-2012, 06:03 AM
I don't think so. Women would probably hit, punch the head, grab the hair, grab a rock, kick, etc. Not strong enough to strangulate.

Yeah, I know I would put up one hell of a fight.

Scenario: Grabbed around the throat enough to cause significent damage, head banged on hard surface enough to cause death?

I dont mean to be disrespectful and I apologise to the squeamish but I'm hypothesing here.

CaseClosed
05-12-2012, 06:03 AM
Just thinking out loud.... Hypothetically if the person responsible for ABC's death was not GBC, say it was the mistress, and he had no involvement in her demise then if GBC was involved in covering it up in any way then in my view that's quite disrespectful to Allison and his daughters. I'm not sure who is responsible for ABC's death but based on GBC's behavior when she was missing I can't help but wonder if he at least knows something about what did happen.

If he is innocent of everything though, imagine what he must be going through losing his wife and being under suspicion. Probably not good for what sounds to have already been a struggling business too.

Hopefully the truth will be revealed, whatever that may be.

My thinking is, if he did not do it, but helped with cover-up, he is as guilty as the person who did it and deserves the full force of the law. But, IMO, the other woman (if any) has nothing to do with it, except now provide info to assist police. If there is an accomplice, it would be someone in his family iMO.

AllyG
05-12-2012, 06:03 AM
Ok guys good work on this bit , let me add to it a little. On the day that an ex colleague ( female ) appointed a lawyer , the news grabs for the channel 10 Brisbane 5 pm news had pictures of a large unit block as they were talking about this . MSM connection here. Now if you were a real estate type and had access to that database that contains all the sales information for the 3 transactions that involved the said person , (and yeah they look like they took a small loss
on that one ) , the vendors details for that record an address , now if you look at the details of that last known address for the person it looks like the unit block featured in those news grabs and for me ties in that person as the one helping with enquiries . I hope this helps .
ARgh! I've had too many glasses of wine and reading that broke my brain.

mumof2
05-12-2012, 06:05 AM
I think you are in the wrong part of the river; this is upstream from the Weir.
This is Burtons Bridge to Kholo Bridge. May sound stupid - but Kholo Bridge and Kholo Creek Crossing are two totally different places. I will find a map with both on if I can.

thats what i just said - cant find anything on that section

CaseClosed
05-12-2012, 06:07 AM
I agree. IMO the only way a woman could strangle another woman is if a garotte was used or if the woman had unusually large and strong hands. Strangulation does not just happen in a few seconds like they show in the movies.

Exactly, it takes a few minutes.

DreamAWish
05-12-2012, 06:08 AM
First post.. Read every single post from day one though (yes completely obsessed like so so many others with this tragic story and so want whoever did this to Allison to be brought to justice). I registered while Allison was still missing - hence the tag name - hoping she would be found safe and sound and be brought home to her beautiful little daughters. I'm a local, have seen the century21 white 4WD running around over time, parked beside it at at the supermarket, recognise faces, probably know people who know people, etc.. although I do not know the family myself.

What I would like to say is this:

Someone mentioned a thread or 2 ago that America has their Marilyn Munro, the UK has their Princess Diana and we have our Allison... When I read that I realised that is exactly how I feel. I don't ever remember a news story that has ever touched me as much as this one has.. Perhaps its being a local, perhaps its being being a similar age and perhaps its because I relate to the person Allison was as described by her family/best friend. We meet people everyday, some have no affect whatsoever on us and we barely remember meeting them, others touch our world in some way because of some sort of interaction, many touch our hearts fleetingly or forever and then there are some we keep in our prayers at night and never forget. That's the way I feel about Allison.

I listened to the GBC interview 10 times or more and I'm certain he said "they've got three young girls" and then he realized his error. Who knows how you would feel in such a situation. He may well have been at the point of looking on the whole situation as an outsider would hence his verbal error.. Whether he is guilty or innocent, gee.. you would have to remove yourself just to mentally cope wouldn't you?

Would like to see maverick.com come back, Angel1 too.. Both passionate sleuthers. Had an inkling maverick.com and keyboredom were one and the same but who knows and at the end of the day does it matter? Enjoyed both points of view..

Undoubtedly my one and only post... Keep up the good work sleuths!

Neuromancer
05-12-2012, 06:08 AM
Definitely not over side of bridge; possible at site of bridge

Oh yes should have stipulated - never thought over side of bridge was possible. Too public and dangerous to stop on the bridge itself.

Bayside
05-12-2012, 06:11 AM
It's so sad for Allison's girls that it's Mother's Day tomorrow.

I hope police are able to get more evidence and move faster than the Max Sica arrest did.

The perpetrator sure was lucky the body wasn't found for ten days so a lot of evidence would have been lost.

It is a shame she wasnt found earlier, i dont think the killer expected her to be found at all.

bikerchick
05-12-2012, 06:12 AM
ARgh! I've had too many glasses of win and reading that broke my brain.

Ally, the location of those Unit Blocks is where she was last working as a real estate agent. HTH

AllyG
05-12-2012, 06:23 AM
Ally, the location of those Unit Blocks is where she was last working as a real estate agent. HTH
Ah cool. Thanks :) And thanks for not poking fun at my "glasses of win" comment. I'm sure tomorrow they wont feel like win at all :puke:

CJ60
05-12-2012, 06:23 AM
thats what i just said - cant find anything on that section

Yeah, cheers! Just seen your first post. Trying to find a map of Kholo Creek

mumof2
05-12-2012, 06:27 AM
Yeah, cheers! Just seen your first post. Trying to find a map of Kholo Creek

i've looked on google maps but its so overgrown that you cant see anything beyond where it joins into the brisbane river

Susan12
05-12-2012, 06:30 AM
My thinking is, if he did not do it, but helped with cover-up, he is as guilty as the person who did it and deserves the full force of the law. But, IMO, the other woman (if any) has nothing to do with it, except now provide info to assist police. If there is an accomplice, it would be someone in his family iMO.

I don't expect the police to take kindly to any accomplice either and even more than usual with all those man hours and tax payer dollars spent looking for her when they'd have known where she was all along.

If GBC did it and the mistress wasn't present then i'd agree, if you wanted to go to someone for help you would expect your parents to be the most likely to protect you.

Rational
05-12-2012, 06:31 AM
On a lighter note, after spending the last two weeks straining my eyes to read everything from post 1, I have just realised if I turn my iPad sideways the font is much larger!! Yes I am a Luddite from way back!

MysteriousWorld
05-12-2012, 06:33 AM
I am fairly sure that between setting up forward command posts and dedicating phone lines encouraging public interaction, the QPS absolutely want the public to provide leads, information and local inside information which may be useful in their investigations. Once received it is up to them what and how the information is used.

truth_morph
05-12-2012, 06:34 AM
But not for me.

Oh but I am. WS is for amatuer sleuthing, it's a bit of arm chair detective fun. It's NOT an extension of the law.

Elspeth
05-12-2012, 06:34 AM
These are a few points that either don't add up for me or are in the 'alternative theory' basket (as opposed to IMO).
If G & A were in fact separated, is it possible that G didn't stay at the 'marital' home that night? He was, perhaps, there in the evening and again in the AM when he dropped the girls to school but at his parents/elsewhere to sleep. He may have regularly had the girls overnight if they were living in different homes.
This rolls on to my next point.
Why did he call 000 as opposed to the local police number? Unless of course he went to the house because Allison's car was still there when she should have left already and he found signs of a struggle? The 000 call has really bothered me; surely it would make more sense to call a station. But then why did police respond so quickly to the call, for all intents and purposes a missing person call, unless there was a history of violence as discussed previously.

Alt. theory: Bad business dealings/ bad blood from a realationship one or both were involved with, person comes over after G has left, nasty situation ensues, the white 4x4 is used by unkown person/people to move Allison's body, G comes back to the house to find disarray, calls police etc and is now acting as a foil for the investigators?

I haven't been overly specific with details or referenced some of my points which I know have been suggested before, but it is possible the WhoDunnit is not so cut and dried.

Do I duck now?? I love the humorous and tounge in cheek style of some members BTW. Lol

Because there has been no *verification* by the police about times/dates of calls/anything much etc...there could always be the possibility that ABC gave the children early dinner then the husband took the children to his parents for a prearranged sleep over as they both had an early start...she said she was going for a walk whilst he was away..hence his knowing the clothes she wore even through the girls...he stayed talking for a while and when he came back she had not come home...he could have thought she had called in to see neighbours etc maybe called a friend to visit..we do not know when or who he called in what time frame...he could have been calling people all night for all we know...when she didn't return for the conference that is possibly when the police decided to act instantly...Her Mother only said he told them she went for a walk and did not return...times were not mentioned I don't think...

Maybe far fetched but I feel a possiblity as no definite details of these times have ever been confirmed by the police...

CaseClosed
05-12-2012, 06:35 AM
I don't expect the police to take kindly to any accomplice either and even more than usual with all those man hours and tax payer dollars spent looking for her when they'd have known where she was all along.

If GBC did it and the mistress wasn't present then i'd agree, if you wanted to go to someone for help you would expect your parents to be the most likely to protect you.

In particular because he seems to be very close to his family! I don't think there was anybody else present and I don't believe it was planned in advance. IMO it was a spur of the moment kind of thing with previous history of DV.

JK673
05-12-2012, 06:37 AM
I believe he does.

And, if you look at that clip again, you can see how almost as soon as he has said that, he does that smacking thing with his lips, almost a "tsk" which indicates to me an "Oops, didn't mean to say that" moment.

Can someone explain the "They've got three young girls" quote?? I do not get it

itsthevibe
05-12-2012, 06:38 AM
Very true! Lawyers are doing a job, the same as the police. People condemn in particular defence lawyers, I don't (and am not involved in law). I agree that in the heat of a moment, someone can unintentionally kill someone, which is what I personally believe happened in this case. Police are being praised for the way they have handled this case, however there are many other cases when the mob have criticised police. Human nature.

Could you elaborate in detail how this would happen - i mean step by step, an example of an actual killing? And why you would describe it as 'unintentional'? I was trying to point out in my recent post about this that there is a knowledge at the time that you are actually killing someone, you can either see clearly that you are, you continue actions until you have, or you are performing extremely violent actions that would reasonably be known to result in killing someone (such as bludgeoning them) and you can decide to stop. Unless you bash someone and stop while they are still conscious and then they die later, you have intentionally murdered them. (even if the intentions only arose in a short space of time).

But then, I don't agree that the rage takes over and therefore the person is excused in some way. There is a choice to control the rage at any point, or decide not to act it out it at all.

Just so you know, i am not trying to be sarcastic and am not angry right now, I am really trying to examine this issue. I've asked for a step by step example because I think that generalising can make it easier to make those kind of statements but when you break it down it becomes a bit harder to see how it could happen 'unintentionally' and say there was no choice at all. Well IMO, anyway.

I think this is relevant because at some point, hopefully, there will be an arrest and there is the possibility that this very issue will arise. I actually think in this case the police are trying to be as meticulous as possible to get as much evidence and hard facts and ensure every little detail is covered before they make a move, because they believe it is murder and they want to do all they can to have the case proceed as murder and be successful.

CaseClosed
05-12-2012, 06:38 AM
Because there has been no *verification* by the police about times/dates of calls/anything much etc...there could always be the possibility that ABC gave the children early dinner then the husband took the children to his parents for a prearranged sleep over as they both had an early start...she said she was going for a walk whilst he was away..hence his knowing the clothes she wore even through the girls...he stayed talking for a while and when he came back she had not come home...he could have thought she had called in to see neighbours etc maybe called a friend to visit..we do not know when or who he called in what time frame...he could have been calling people all night for all we know...when she didn't return for the conference that is possibly when the police decided to act instantly...Her Mother only said he told them she went for a walk and did not return...times were not mentioned I don't think...

Maybe far fetched but I feel a possiblity as no definite details of these times have ever been confirmed by the police...

... but he said he saw her last at 10 pm watching the Footy Show, at which point he went to bed ....

Rational
05-12-2012, 06:42 AM
But he didn't say where he went to bed.

Elspeth
05-12-2012, 06:42 AM
... but he said he saw her last at 10 pm watching the Footy Show, at which point he went to bed ....

But was this verified by the police or was it just in the media? If so I apologize for being so wrong...

CaseClosed
05-12-2012, 06:44 AM
Could you elaborate in detail how this would happen - i mean step by step, an example of an actual killing? And why you would describe it as 'unintentional'? I was trying to point out in my recent post about this that there is a knowledge at the time that you are actually killing someone, you can either see clearly that you are, you continue actions until you have, or you are performing extremely violent actions that would reasonably be known to result in killing someone (such as bludgeoning them) and you can decide to stop. Unless you bash someone and stop while they are still conscious and then they die later, you have intentionally murdered them. (even if the intentions only arose in a short space of time).

But then, I don't agree that the rage takes over and therefore the person is excused in some way. There is a choice to control the rage at any point, or decide not to act it out it at all.

Just so you know, i am not trying to be sarcastic and am not angry right now, I am really trying to examine this issue. I've asked for a step by step example because I think that generalising can make it easier to make those kind of statements but when you break it down it becomes a bit harder to see how it could happen 'unintentionally' and say there was no choice at all. Well IMO, anyway.

I think this is relevant because at some point, hopefully, there will be an arrest and there is the possibility that this very issue will arise. I actually think in this case the police are trying to be as meticulous as possible to get as much evidence and hard facts and ensure every little detail is covered before they make a move, because they believe it is murder and they want to do all they can to have the case proceed as murder and be successful.

I won't put a stop by step example because there could be many scenarios, but I admit the word "unintentional" was not what I meant (sorry, English is not my first language). I meant "not planned in advance". I don't think, if the husband killed her, that he walked into the room thinking: I'm going to kill you now!!
I think it evolved from an argument into a physical fight and rage took over. If, strangulation was the COD, then I still believe it evolved from an argument and it was not pre-planned.

coolcat
05-12-2012, 06:45 AM
Just catching up on Posts over the last 24hrs.....Wow! Not much has happened..Only 2 significant things that got my attention......

1. TM is 6ft tall and not person at BC snrs.
2. Police paid GBC a visit at GBC snrs home. (How did they know he was there?)

On the second point I woud just like to add my thoughts on this...If it were my spouse or loved one, I would invite them in and probe them for all the imformation they had and demand to know what was taking so long??

I would need more then 10mins of there time...That is for Sure!

I also liked the theory that ABC caught GBC with Lady friend at Scout Hall....I know people thought this to be out of charachter for ABC...But hell hath no fury for a woman scorned...(No one is angrier than a woman who has been rejected in love....)

This can apply to either ABC or TM.....Love makes us to strange things.....

Example..Follow husband to Mistress or Kill lovers Wife?

CaseClosed
05-12-2012, 06:47 AM
But was this verified by the police or was it just in the media? If so I apologize for being so wrong...

Sorry, I won't go back through all the threads and links to check if the police actually said it, but it has been widely reported in the press and TV as what he said about her disappearance.

clem1970
05-12-2012, 06:49 AM
I won't put a stop by step example because there could be many scenarios, but I admit the word "unintentional" was not what I meant (sorry, English is not my first language). I meant "not planned in advance". I don't think, if the husband killed her, that he walked into the room thinking: I'm going to kill you now!!
I think it evolved from an argument into a physical fight and rage took over. If, strangulation was the COD, then I still believe it evolved from an argument and it was not pre-planned.

This document by the CMC may help - it defines unintentional death and murder

www.cmc.qld.gov.au/research-and.../cjc/murder-in-queensland

If you get an error message just open the doc at the bottom of the page titled "Murder in Queensland"

TheStupidTree
05-12-2012, 06:55 AM
... but he said he saw her last at 10 pm watching the Footy Show, at which point he went to bed ....

I was wondering about this today. If my hubby didn't come to bed, I would know. I never sleep right through the night (not sure if anyone does) but I'd be checking on him by about 1am. This makes me wonder if they were sleeping in the same room. I know that when people are in the process of separating they sleep separately under the same roof.

MysteriousWorld
05-12-2012, 06:56 AM
theory that ABC caught GBC with Lady friend at Scout Hall.
This may appear to be pedantic, but I am 99% sure there is no hall at this particular site.

itsthevibe
05-12-2012, 06:56 AM
Because there has been no *verification* by the police about times/dates of calls/anything much etc...there could always be the possibility that ABC gave the children early dinner then the husband took the children to his parents for a prearranged sleep over as they both had an early start...she said she was going for a walk whilst he was away..hence his knowing the clothes she wore even through the girls...he stayed talking for a while and when he came back she had not come home...he could have thought she had called in to see neighbours etc maybe called a friend to visit..we do not know when or who he called in what time frame...he could have been calling people all night for all we know...when she didn't return for the conference that is possibly when the police decided to act instantly...Her Mother only said he told them she went for a walk and did not return...times were not mentioned I don't think...

Maybe far fetched but I feel a possiblity as no definite details of these times have ever been confirmed by the police...

Elspeth, it has already been established that the kids were having a sleepover with friends on that night. If you haven't been following the discussion here in detail from the beginning, there are a couple of things which were misreported or taken out of context at first, which have since been cleared up. One was the childrens sleepover location, the other was initial reports about the 10pm walk at night thing, but this was clarified fairly soon to reflect that GBC reported he last saw Allison at 10pm when he went to bed and she was watching the footy show. I am not sure which link, or links, to find all these details, it may be on the timeline, but as i recall GBC reported Allison missing to police at 7.30am after she didnt return from her mornig walk. This has been taken to mean that he is saying that he wouldnt have questioned her absence in the morning at first, because if she goes on a regular walk it could be reasonable to expect that on some mornings he may wake after she has left. So bascially he has reported her missing at 7.30am because she should have been back by say, 6.30am or 7am.

Others may be able to clarify if I've got this right, but I consider this is where we are now. some people have questioned why GBC would call police if Allison had been late back from her walk for only half an hour, or 1 hour maximum.

As for the news reports that he was frantically texting people as to her whereabouts, I'm not sure of the time he was supposed to have done the texting. I thought I read this very early on and it was when there was the confusion about her going for a walk in the evening. I think the report implied the texting was done in the evening because it prompted some discussion about why he would have then gone to bed if she hadnt come back. Personally i think this was misreported by journos extrapolating on the misinformation that GBC had said Allison went for a walk at 10pm.

Caviar
05-12-2012, 06:57 AM
If Allison did die by strangulation and if there was DV in the relationship (both unsubstantiated at this time), this may have not been the first time....just this time it may have gone further than usual.

Below is from a family violence website Ortner Unity...

Strangulation can be a recurring form of violence in abused women’s lives. In a study of 62 abused women who came to a shelter or a violence prevention center, 68% (n=42) had a history of strangulation, and on an average, each woman had been strangled 5.3 times in their intimate relationships.

I am still hoping that GBC was not involved in ABC's demise for the sake of the 3 girls and I'm keeping a very open mind.

My little boy told me this evening that he is very much looking forward to Mother's Day tomorrow so that he can show me how much he loves me.... He has already created a menu for breakfast in bed and a mummy day party in the garden for tea. I will cherish tomorrow so much more than usual as you never know when it may be your last. May Allison give her girls the strength to get through such a painful day.