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Salem
05-10-2012, 05:07 PM
Discuss the legal arguments here! What went on behind closed doors?

Remember the rules and DO NOT BICKER - just discuss what was happening. It is rare that WS is not the first to know and in this case we were deliberately held back - but the ban is LIFTED!

Salem

Wondergirl
05-10-2012, 05:13 PM
I expect Christie Blatchford and Randy Richmond to release pieces tonight, as they would already have articles ready to go, IMO.

TopTop
05-10-2012, 05:42 PM
For three months leading to the murder of Victoria 'Tori' Stafford, Michael Rafferty searched the Internet for 'underage rape, real underage rape, real underage rape pictures, pre-teen nude, pre-teen model galleries and nude pre-teen.'

read the article: http://www.lfpress.com/news/london/raffertytrial/2012/05/10/19741946.html

TopTop
05-10-2012, 05:43 PM
Mike Knoll: At first, a curled up Michael Rafferty whimpers and complains. But then he stares into space, and defies and denies.

At first, the police lean in close to talk soft and caring. But then they lean back in their chairs and taunt.

read the article: http://www.lfpress.com/news/london/raffertytrial/2012/05/10/19741811.html

TopTop
05-10-2012, 05:43 PM
Mike Knoll: This time, the interrogator was the one being interrogated.

And defence lawyer Dirk Derstine had no intentions of playing the good cop.

read the article: http://www.lfpress.com/news/london/raffertytrial/2012/05/10/19741721.html

Wondergirl
05-10-2012, 05:44 PM
For three months leading to the murder of Victoria 'Tori' Stafford, Michael Rafferty searched the Internet for 'underage rape, real underage rape, real underage rape pictures, pre-teen nude, pre-teen model galleries and nude pre-teen.'

read the article: http://www.lfpress.com/news/london/raffertytrial/2012/05/10/19741946.html

Did anyone really question the intent of this <self-imposed modsnip>?

Makes me want to vomit.

TopTop
05-10-2012, 05:44 PM
Mike Knoll: The woman came out of the blue to give Tara McDonald and boyfriend James Goris a hug on Woodstock's main street.

I'm glad you're not a reporter, McDonald told her.

read the article: http://www.lfpress.com/news/london/raffertytrial/2012/05/10/19741681.html

swedie
05-10-2012, 05:44 PM
HOLD ONTO YOUR HATS PEEPS! I BET THERE WILL BE SO MUCH TELLING INFORMATION WHICH WAS HELD BACK TO POINT MORE AT MR'S GUILT. We never heard anything about MR's laptop so I wonder if some of that info will come out. Even though MR tried to delete stuff (rumour), LE would still be able to find info in allocated space. Let's hear it MSM. We've waited long enough now. Spill it. MOO

ok now spill the beans lfp on what was held back! MOO

TopTop
05-10-2012, 05:44 PM
Mike Knoll: It took three interviews in the spring of 2009 - and three hours in the last one - to get Terri-Lynne McClintic to finger Michael Rafferty for Victoria (Tori) Stafford's murder.

read the article: http://www.lfpress.com/news/london/raffertytrial/2012/05/10/19741656.html

TopTop
05-10-2012, 05:45 PM
Mike Knoll: LFP also has a 4-hour police interview with Michael Rafferty that will soon appear on our site broken into 7 parts and an edited version.

Wondergirl
05-10-2012, 05:45 PM
http://storage.canoe.ca/v1/dynamic_resize/?src=http://www.lfpress.com/news/london/raffertytrial/2012/05/10/0511rafferty_mcclintic.jpg&size=248x186

Terri-Lynne McClintic and Michael Rafferty police interview.

Faulty warrant shielded Internet activity

By RANDY RICHMOND, The London Free Press

Alison
05-10-2012, 05:46 PM
SICK! SICK! SOB! No wonder Rodney had to leave.

TopTop
05-10-2012, 05:46 PM
Mike Knoll: All below articles had to be withheld until the jury was sequestered as they contain information that could not be submitted in court.

Wondergirl
05-10-2012, 05:46 PM
OMG.

Crying.


He also accessed a 'how-to-guide' on raping children and dozens of child pornography videos, including some featuring incest and one purporting to be a "snuff movie" involving a child.

http://www.lfpress.com/news/london/raffertytrial/2012/05/10/19741946.html

Wondergirl
05-10-2012, 05:47 PM
Breaking. My. Heart.

On March 28, 2009, 10 days before the kidnapping, Rafferty watched a movie about a man using a story about his lost dog to abduct a blonde, eight-year-old girl walking home alone after school. She is taken away in the man's car and forced later to perform sexual acts.

http://www.lfpress.com/news/london/raffertytrial/2012/05/10/19741946.html

TopTop
05-10-2012, 05:48 PM
I pray that jury finds him guilty. I will be sick if not. How will they live with themselves afterwords if not? They will eventually learn what we are now learning.

TopTop
05-10-2012, 05:48 PM
RaffertyLFP: What the jury didn't hear: Faulty search warrant shielded disturbing Internet activity. http://bit.ly/JhdXUW [via Twitter]

swedie
05-10-2012, 05:49 PM
For three months leading to the murder of Victoria 'Tori' Stafford, Michael Rafferty searched the Internet for 'underage rape, real underage rape, real underage rape pictures, pre-teen nude, pre-teen model galleries and nude pre-teen.'

read the article: http://www.lfpress.com/news/london/raffertytrial/2012/05/10/19741946.html

OMG WHAT A SICK &^*%! I always wondered why nothing was released about his laptop; now I know and I feel absolutely sick. I am so disgusted and this is very telling of whose idea it was to abduct Tori. WTH? Why was this held back from the jurors? It's who MR is and very telling of his mind frame. OMG! MOO

Wondergirl
05-10-2012, 05:50 PM
W.T.F.

I can't believe this wasn't allowed into evidence.

OMG.

The most explosive information comes from the OPP electronic crime unit's computer searches and other police reports:


- Rafferty 'joked' with girlfriends via emails that he'd like their young children as gifts, perhaps innocent, perhaps not. One woman texts him April 1, 2009 that she has two-year-old twin daughters. "lol, can I have one?" he texts back. To another, he admits he'd like to do "bad dirty stuff. . . things that some ppl would really take offence to." And, to yet another, he says he would like "ur first born" but "i cant say what i would like."


- Some of his girlfriends told police he exhibited strange behaviour toward their children.


- A London woman told police in January 2009 that Rafferty drugged her glass of wine while they watched a movie at her place. He tied her hands behind her back, choked her and forced to have anal sex, all the while telling her to pass out. When he was done he went to the bathroom, to clean up, then came back and untied her hands. He helped her into the bedroom, cleaned the wine glasses and left. Police determined the sex was not consensual, but the matter did not go to court.


- His desire for child porn extended back at least to 2006. A hard drive from an old computer found in Rafferty's house contained nine child pornography videos, "some with an outwardly coercive element," police reports say.


- He was also interested in adult and bestiality pornography and accessed necrophilia websites, including some that showed "apparently deceased bodies left in rural areas," police say. One image was of a dead woman in a field with no clothing from the waist down.


http://www.lfpress.com/news/london/raffertytrial/2012/05/10/19741946.html

Wondergirl
05-10-2012, 05:54 PM
It's everything.

WTF.

This is absolutely devastating.

<self-imposed modsnip>

There you go, there is your confirmation.

How does one defend a person like this? I realize they are entitled to a defense, but, truly, this is horrific.

JMO

sillybilly
05-10-2012, 05:54 PM
If this SOB is found NG, it will be the biggest travesty of justice in Canadian history.

gardenia
05-10-2012, 05:54 PM
OMG!!!!!!

I cannot believe this stuff didn't make it into evidence ... let me be one of the first to say that "I" was wrong in my estimation!!!

Flossie JMO
05-10-2012, 05:58 PM
I just read Michele Mandel's article in the Sun, disgusting. What a sick person :(

swedie
05-10-2012, 05:58 PM
OMG! Was this his mother's computer? If so, how did she not know? I'm not bashing her, I just don't understand how this is possible and then for her to say "My son is innocent". Did LE not tell her about this stuff found on possibly her computer? She may be recanting her "my son is innocent" statement now if she's just finding out. MOO


- His desire for child porn extended back at least to 2006. A hard drive from an old computer found in Rafferty's house contained nine child pornography videos, "some with an outwardly coercive element," police reports say.

- He was also interested in adult and bestiality pornography and accessed necrophilia websites, including some that showed "apparently deceased bodies left in rural areas," police say. One image was of a dead woman in a field with no clothing from the waist down.

sillybilly
05-10-2012, 05:59 PM
OMG!!!!!!

I cannot believe this stuff didn't make it into evidence ... let me be one of the first to say that "I" was wrong in my estimation!!!

Nobody would be been wrong if the world had known this gardenia ... and the jury could not possibly have difficulty with a verdict. This is on the heads of one damned faulty warrant.

I will feel so sorry for the jury if their finding is wrong.

Flossie JMO
05-10-2012, 06:02 PM
OMG!!!!!!

I cannot believe this stuff didn't make it into evidence ... let me be one of the first to say that "I" was wrong in my estimation!!!

Me too, reminds me of the case of the murdered Pickering girl Julie Ann Stanton by Peter John Stark, the jurors had no idea he had stabbed a hitch hiker prior and several other things :(

AbbeyR
05-10-2012, 06:02 PM
What a disgusting vile excuse for a human being. I can't believe he has the gall to put Tori's parents through this trial, not to mention waste court resources, tax dollars and all of the time, energy and emotion being spent on this trial.

Effing disgusting. I hope see never sees the light of day again.

swedie
05-10-2012, 06:02 PM
I sure hope the jurors see in the car photos the laptop and wonder why there was nothing brought out about it. I know they cannot decide on that fact but it may sway them in their decisions slightly, kwim. I am shock at some of this info coming out now, but not surprised. And this is just the beginning. MOO

sillybilly
05-10-2012, 06:04 PM
CTV Newsnet has reported that, in the days following Tori's murder, MTR had watched the movie "Karla" on his laptop.

swedie
05-10-2012, 06:04 PM
What a disgusting vile excuse for a human being. I can't believe he has the gall to put Tori's parents through this trial, not to mention waste court resources, tax dollars and all of the time, energy and emotion being spent on this trial.

Effing disgusting. I hope see never sees the light of day again.

Too bad the laws couldn't be changed to make those found guilty of these crimes, to extend their sentence time for wasting money on a trial. MOO Tack on another 25 years for financial pay back.

maxfactor
05-10-2012, 06:05 PM
What a disgusting piece of trash.

maxfactor
05-10-2012, 06:06 PM
He's a pedophile, TLM was the innocent dupe.

swedie
05-10-2012, 06:08 PM
I want to extend my deepest sympathies to anyone who feel victim to MR. All those women who he played and took advantage of, I am truly and deeply sorry for the pain and devastation he had left upon your lives. God bless you.

Flossie JMO
05-10-2012, 06:09 PM
this is so sick http://m.torontosun.com/2012/05/10/rafferty-jury-didnt-hear-the-worst-of-it

Peekaboo10
05-10-2012, 06:10 PM
OMG I knew he was 10000000% guilty before this article, but wow... this solidifies everything. I am LIVID! Please do NOT find this scum innocent of anything... please!!!

sillybilly
05-10-2012, 06:12 PM
What the hell ever happened to the concept that the "probative value" of the evidence outweighs the deficiences in the warrant? All i can think is that the evidence would have been so prejudicial to the defendant that he could not have possibly received a fair trial.

A real POS this creep !!

Tahorn
05-10-2012, 06:13 PM
I am disgusted in believing there was a chance he was duped. I am even more disgusted that our system is so broken that it let TLM out in the first place and then it did not allow that to be in evidence. I just could not wrap my head around what was missing ...

If that wasn't the smoking gun I dont know what is. I am going to church in a few minutes and pray that the Jury gets it right. Then I am going home to shower and cry my eyes out.

BorgQueen
05-10-2012, 06:15 PM
Insert an EXTREMELY LARGE LINE of expletives here.
Seriously.
How could they stuff up that warrant?! WHO IS RESPONSIBLE FOR MESSING THAT UP?!


"We have no evidence that he wanted children"
Yes, we do... it was just THROWN OUT.
And now, I am going to THROW UP.

maxfactor
05-10-2012, 06:20 PM
Mike Knoll: At first, a curled up Michael Rafferty whimpers and complains. But then he stares into space, and defies and denies.

At first, the police lean in close to talk soft and caring. But then they lean back in their chairs and taunt.

read the article: http://www.lfpress.com/news/london/raffertytrial/2012/05/10/19741811.html

Also from that article:
"What would your mother want you to do in this situation?" Loam asks.

"Get a lawyer," Rafferty replies.

sillybilly
05-10-2012, 06:22 PM
Insert an EXTREMELY LARGE LINE of expletives here.
Seriously.
How could they stuff up that warrant?! WHO IS RESPONSIBLE FOR MESSING THAT UP?!


"We have no evidence that he wanted children"
Yes, we do... it was just THROWN OUT.
And now, I am going to THROW UP.

I can only suppose LE thought that the warrant to search the vehicle was sufficient to search anything that was contained within it.

I feel the need to go a 1000 mile walk in the bush right now.

BorgQueen
05-10-2012, 06:23 PM
I wonder... can these findings on his computer, etc, be used later to charge him with other offences? (such as possession of child pornography)

brighidin
05-10-2012, 06:24 PM
For three months leading to the murder of Victoria 'Tori' Stafford, Michael Rafferty searched the Internet for 'underage rape, real underage rape, real underage rape pictures, pre-teen nude, pre-teen model galleries and nude pre-teen.'

read the article: http://www.lfpress.com/news/london/raffertytrial/2012/05/10/19741946.html

Wow. This is one of the most disturbing articles i have read in a long time.

I can't believe the search warrant was not executed properly.

Sick. he is a sick, sick person.
No wonder why Rodney couldn't stand to be in court sometimes.

Come on jury...find this sick pos guilty. if he gets off, it will be like Holmolka redux.

brighidin
05-10-2012, 06:25 PM
Insert an EXTREMELY LARGE LINE of expletives here.


No kidding.

Flossie JMO
05-10-2012, 06:26 PM
Yet another guilty person passing a poly, they are worthless imo

"In court, without the jury present, it was noted McClintic thought she had failed the polygraph test, although she hadn't."

http://www.lfpress.com/news/london/raffertytrial/2012/05/10/19741656.html

Bravo
05-10-2012, 06:26 PM
OMG WHAT A SICK &^*%! I always wondered why nothing was released about his laptop; now I know and I feel absolutely sick. I am so disgusted and this is very telling of whose idea it was to abduct Tori. WTH? Why was this held back from the jurors? It's who MR is and very telling of his mind frame. OMG! MOO

Me too. I assumed there was nothing on the computer. Monster. A Monster!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!

nursebeeme
05-10-2012, 06:28 PM
omg... how vile and disgusting.

I am at a serious loss of words esp the fact the warrant was screwed up

maxfactor
05-10-2012, 06:29 PM
I love Jim Smyth.


"The nice thing about the place you're going to be spending a good chunk of your life is they actually have glass cells so you and Bernardo can make googly eyes at each other all day, whatever you guys do in there. So it's nice meeting you, Mikey. Enjoy the rest of your life. This is the kind of room you're going to be spending it in.

http://www.lfpress.com/news/london/raffertytrial/2012/05/10/19741811.html

AbbeyR
05-10-2012, 06:30 PM
I want to extend my deepest sympathies to anyone who feel victim to MR. All those women who he played and took advantage of, I am truly and deeply sorry for the pain and devastation he had left upon your lives. God bless you.

I am sorry for them too, but there's a part of me that's angry after reading those news reports. I'm sorry, but who would continue a relationship with someone who "jokes" about turning their children into gifts??

I'm reminded of the warning about "willful blindness" given to the jury today. I hope this case will serve as a warning to people to take disturbing behavior seriously, especially when it comes to children, and to report violent crime -- if not for justice for yourself, for the protection of others.

Think of how many times people supporting Rafferty have pointed to the fact that he had no criminal record as evidence of his innocence! Doesn't mean much, does it.

Flossie JMO
05-10-2012, 06:33 PM
heartbreaking! and even Tara and Rodney showed as deceptive on polys, why do they even do them?

http://www.lfpress.com/news/london/raffertytrial/2012/05/10/19741681.html

God bless Tori and her family, this is just too much on top of what they have already gone through

nobodyzgirl
05-10-2012, 06:36 PM
He's a pedophile, TLM was the innocent dupe.

TLM a few opportunities to save Tori when MR was not in the car. I don't believe for a second she was an innocent dupe. She is just as involved.

BorgQueen
05-10-2012, 06:37 PM
I love Jim Smyth.




http://www.lfpress.com/news/london/raffertytrial/2012/05/10/19741811.html

I love him, too. :)

Flossie JMO
05-10-2012, 06:39 PM
would have been good for the jurors to know this about the rip off:

Many interviewed, including the dealer himself, told how Goris was involved in a deal that shortchanged the dealer $600 for some Oxycontins.

The dealer dismissed any suggestion he'd take a child for any debt, never mind one so small. If he felt that strongly about it, the dealer told police, he'd simply take a baseball bat to the offending party.

Friends interviewed by police described McDonald as too calm considering the circumstances, or in some cases, distracted by other matters. Some questioned why they were raising money for a trust fund.

maxfactor
05-10-2012, 06:40 PM
TLM a few opportunities to save Tori when MR was not in the car. I don't believe for a second she was an innocent dupe. She is just as involved.

Yes she was and she has accepted responsibility for it, I just can't help but wonder how different her life could have turned out had she not met this piece of garbage. MOO

Flossie JMO
05-10-2012, 06:45 PM
OMG! Was this his mother's computer? If so, how did she not know? I'm not bashing her, I just don't understand how this is possible and then for her to say "My son is innocent". Did LE not tell her about this stuff found on possibly her computer? She may be recanting her "my son is innocent" statement now if she's just finding out. MOO


- His desire for child porn extended back at least to 2006. A hard drive from an old computer found in Rafferty's house contained nine child pornography videos, "some with an outwardly coercive element," police reports say.

- He was also interested in adult and bestiality pornography and accessed necrophilia websites, including some that showed "apparently deceased bodies left in rural areas," police say. One image was of a dead woman in a field with no clothing from the waist down.

I can't blame his mother, she may have had absolutely no idea.

CarrieBean
05-10-2012, 06:45 PM
I just got home to see an article on my local news site. I haven't even read much of it yet. I'm not surprised but still don't have any words appropriate for this board at the moment.

brighidin
05-10-2012, 06:46 PM
would have been good for the jurors to know this about the rip off:

Many interviewed, including the dealer himself, told how Goris was involved in a deal that shortchanged the dealer $600 for some Oxycontins.

The dealer dismissed any suggestion he'd take a child for any debt, never mind one so small. If he felt that strongly about it, the dealer told police, he'd simply take a baseball bat to the offending party.

Friends interviewed by police described McDonald as too calm considering the circumstances, or in some cases, distracted by other matters. Some questioned why they were raising money for a trust fund.

Even the drug dealer has better morals that the (alleged) child-rapist/killer.

I would guess that Tara seemed calm because:
a) she was self-medicating
b) she doesn't seem the type to get all weepy and hysterical

Flossie JMO
05-10-2012, 06:49 PM
Even the drug dealer has better morals that the (alleged) child-rapist/killer.

I would guess that Tara seemed calm because:
a) she was self-medicating
b) she doesn't seem the type to get all weepy and hysterical

Oh I wasn't commenting on Tara, just wishing the jurors knew this info, it was something that gave me pause is what I'm saying, and now I know, but what I know is not important, the part I am upset about is the jurors don't know JMO

giantalkinghead
05-10-2012, 06:49 PM
OMG !!! I shut down the computer to make supper and just came back to check in and find THIS !!! OMG !!! I am SSSSSSSSSSSSOOOOOOOOOOOOOO angry with our justice system that evidence like this was withheld from the jury.....preteen google search etc. etc. etc............... I'm in SHOCK !! Back to reading............ OMG !!!! SICK SICK SICK

kmclaren
05-10-2012, 06:50 PM
I am beyond disgusted with what has come out so far, feeling sick to my stomach. Not sure if this has been posted so far, it's not really clear why this woman did not testify:

http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2012/05/10/what-the-jury-didnt-hear_n_1507746.html

The jury also did not know that in January 2009 a woman Rafferty met on dating website Plenty of Fish, where he met most of the other women he dated, invited Rafferty over to her house to watch a movie. According to a police complaint, he arrived with an already opened bottle of wine, poured her some, but did not drink any himself.

She told police she started to feel "fuzzy," the room started to spin and Rafferty climbed on top of her on the couch. He started choking her, removing her clothes and tying her hands behind her back, according to the police report, which was cited in court documents. She started vomiting, and Rafferty anally raped her while still choking her, she alleged.

There were no charges laid in the matter.

Flossie JMO
05-10-2012, 06:51 PM
Yes she was and she has accepted responsibility for it, I just can't help but wonder how different her life could have turned out had she not met this piece of garbage. MOO

JMO I doubt it would be much different JMO, only differnce to me is she is now off the streets, I just wish it had happened before and that poor Tori was still alive JMO

BorgQueen
05-10-2012, 06:56 PM
Yes she was and she has accepted responsibility for it, I just can't help but wonder how different her life could have turned out had she not met this piece of garbage. MOO

While I don't think 'innocent dupe' is the correct term for TLM, as she is definitely just as guilty, it is clear that she was used and manipulated. She was NOT the driving force. She is mentally ill and did it 'for a little bit of love'.

I don't think her life would have turned out much differently. She probably wouldn't have killed a child, unless she met a different man with such desires, but I do believe that she would have went on to kill somebody.

JMO

Flossie JMO
05-10-2012, 07:00 PM
Makes you wonder how two sick people end up meeting randomly, like Paul and Karla imo.

giantalkinghead
05-10-2012, 07:03 PM
I am beyond disgusted with what has come out so far, feeling sick to my stomach. Not sure if this has been posted so far, it's not really clear why this woman did not testify:

http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2012/05/10/what-the-jury-didnt-hear_n_1507746.html

The jury also did not know that in January 2009 a woman Rafferty met on dating website Plenty of Fish, where he met most of the other women he dated, invited Rafferty over to her house to watch a movie. According to a police complaint, he arrived with an already opened bottle of wine, poured her some, but did not drink any himself.

She told police she started to feel "fuzzy," the room started to spin and Rafferty climbed on top of her on the couch. He started choking her, removing her clothes and tying her hands behind her back, according to the police report, which was cited in court documents. She started vomiting, and Rafferty anally raped her while still choking her, she alleged.

There were no charges laid in the matter.

For the love of GOD !!! Do you know how angry I would be if I were on the jury.... after this is over and they find out all this extra crap ??? I would be soooo angry and I bet they will be too !!

SFB73
05-10-2012, 07:03 PM
Wonder what the people who didn't feel MR is guilty on all counts are thinking now...

sillybilly
05-10-2012, 07:03 PM
Oh I wasn't commenting on Tara, just wishing the jurors knew this info, it was something that gave me pause is what I'm saying, and now I know, but what I know is not important, the part I am upset about is the jurors don't know JMO

The jurors did hear that JG had a drug debt (as testified to by TM).

From the snippet you posted, it is my impression that the convo about taking a child was an interrogation between JG's dealer and LE, not a convo between JG and the dealer.

Make sense?

JMO

swedie
05-10-2012, 07:13 PM
MR had the chance to tell LE IMMEDIATELY AND HE DENIED, DENIED, DENIED ALL ALONG. He is a despicable piece of garbage. The truth is he has a sexual deviant mind and his laptop proves that. TLM is an angel by comparison (of course I'm a wee bit exaggerating on the angel word) as she had the decency to come forward and I am now really believing MR is the one who killed Tori. What will be more telling is to see what hidden info comes out about TLM. Probably none as I believe she wasn't as devious as MR. It took MR to poison her mind. MOO

TLM a few opportunities to save Tori when MR was not in the car. I don't believe for a second she was an innocent dupe. She is just as involved.

flipflop
05-10-2012, 07:13 PM
I just started watching the 7 part interview....in part one you can see MR gag and about to be sick after Investigator said "I am sitting across from a Paul Bernardo"

http://www.lfpress.com/news/london/raffertytrial/2012/05/10/19743421.html

MR's Interview in 7 parts
1/7
http://www.lfpress.com/news/london/raffertytrial/2012/05/10/19743421.html
2/7
http://www.lfpress.com/news/london/raffertytrial/2012/05/10/19743416.html
3/7
http://www.lfpress.com/news/london/raffertytrial/2012/05/10/19743351.html
4/7
http://www.lfpress.com/news/london/raffertytrial/2012/05/10/19743321.html
5/7
http://www.lfpress.com/news/london/raffertytrial/2012/05/10/19743301.html
6/7
http://www.lfpress.com/news/london/raffertytrial/2012/05/10/19743296.html
7/7
http://www.lfpress.com/news/london/raffertytrial/2012/05/10/19743266.html

maxfactor
05-10-2012, 07:13 PM
Well here it is folks, some of us have been waiting for this:

Christie Blatchford: As the jury in the Tori Stafford trial is sequestered to deliberate their verdict, we examine the evidence about Michael Rafferty they were barred from hearing

http://www.nationalpost.com/index.html

swedie
05-10-2012, 07:17 PM
So according to the interrogation MR did have a criminal record...hmm. Wow he sounds so pathetic in these interviews. "Poor sick guy". PUKE! MOO

nursebeeme
05-10-2012, 07:19 PM
MR had the chance to tell LE IMMEDIATELY AND HE DENIED, DENIED, DENIED ALL ALONG. He is a despicable piece of garbage. The truth is he has a sexual deviant mind and his laptop proves that. TLM is an angel by comparison (of course I'm a wee bit exaggerating on the angel word) as she had the decency to come forward and I am now really believing MR is the one who killed Tori. What will be more telling is to see what hidden info comes out about TLM. Probably none as I believe she wasn't as devious as MR. It took MR to poison her mind. MOO

bbm: I don't think there is a thing decent about her but I agree with all the rest

swedie
05-10-2012, 07:21 PM
I am beyond disgusted with what has come out so far, feeling sick to my stomach. Not sure if this has been posted so far, it's not really clear why this woman did not testify:

http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2012/05/10/what-the-jury-didnt-hear_n_1507746.html

The jury also did not know that in January 2009 a woman Rafferty met on dating website Plenty of Fish, where he met most of the other women he dated, invited Rafferty over to her house to watch a movie. According to a police complaint, he arrived with an already opened bottle of wine, poured her some, but did not drink any himself.

She told police she started to feel "fuzzy," the room started to spin and Rafferty climbed on top of her on the couch. He started choking her, removing her clothes and tying her hands behind her back, according to the police report, which was cited in court documents. She started vomiting, and Rafferty anally raped her while still choking her, she alleged.

There were no charges laid in the matter.

WTH, why was this information withheld from the jurors? All the ridiculous technicalities BS. I'm sure it was the defense who fought to keep this information at bay. I hope people take great notice of the type of information which can be held back during these trials and be very mindful should they ever find themselves sitting on a jury. MOO What you see is not always what you get, there's much more telling evidence.

kmclaren
05-10-2012, 07:25 PM
MR had the chance to tell LE IMMEDIATELY AND HE DENIED, DENIED, DENIED ALL ALONG. He is a despicable piece of garbage. The truth is he has a sexual deviant mind and his laptop proves that. TLM is an angel by comparison (of course I'm a wee bit exaggerating on the angel word) as she had the decency to come forward and I am now really believing MR is the one who killed Tori. What will be more telling is to see what hidden info comes out about TLM. Probably none as I believe she wasn't as devious as MR. It took MR to poison her mind. MOO

When TLM testified that she murdered Tori, I truly believed her. Now, I'm really not sure what to believe about who actually used the hammer. I guess as long as they are both doing life, I'll accept that...

And Swedie, I agree with you about TLM. Thou certainly no angel, it does seem she has at least a shred of decency to speak up and take responsibility. I've wondered what this trial might have been like without TLM's help in trying to find Tori's body, her drawings, her confessions, etc. Would they even have ever found Tori with just cell phone pings; would they have discovered the Home Depot video; or would they have even been able to match the suspicious Honda up with MTR?

maxfactor
05-10-2012, 07:31 PM
I just started watching the 7 part interview....in part one you can see MR gag and about to be sick after Investigator said "I am sitting across from a Paul Bernardo"

http://www.lfpress.com/news/london/raffertytrial/2012/05/10/19743421.html

MR's Interview in 7 parts
1/7
http://www.lfpress.com/news/london/raffertytrial/2012/05/10/19743421.html
2/7
http://www.lfpress.com/news/london/raffertytrial/2012/05/10/19743416.html
3/7
http://www.lfpress.com/news/london/raffertytrial/2012/05/10/19743351.html
4/7
http://www.lfpress.com/news/london/raffertytrial/2012/05/10/19743321.html
5/7
http://www.lfpress.com/news/london/raffertytrial/2012/05/10/19743301.html
6/7
http://www.lfpress.com/news/london/raffertytrial/2012/05/10/19743296.html
7/7
http://www.lfpress.com/news/london/raffertytrial/2012/05/10/19743266.html

With any luck a few days from now Mr will be sitting in the cell next to PB. Wonder how sick he will feel then.

kmclaren
05-10-2012, 07:32 PM
bbm: I don't think there is a thing decent about her but I agree with all the rest

I already replied to swedie but I did give TLM a "shred" of decency just for helping them find Tori and nail MTR...

Wondergirl
05-10-2012, 07:32 PM
What a disgusting vile excuse for a human being. I can't believe he has the gall to put Tori's parents through this trial, not to mention waste court resources, tax dollars and all of the time, energy and emotion being spent on this trial.

Effing disgusting. I hope see never sees the light of day again.

Thank-you.

I am not allowed to express what I really want to say.

maxfactor
05-10-2012, 07:33 PM
The jurors did hear that JG had a drug debt (as testified to by TM).

From the snippet you posted, it is my impression that the convo about taking a child was an interrogation between JG's dealer and LE, not a convo between JG and the dealer.

Make sense?

JMO

And from what I have heard the jury heard who the drug debt was with so they know this wasn't over a drug debt.

gardenia
05-10-2012, 07:33 PM
Wonder what the people who didn't feel MR is guilty on all counts are thinking now...

DUPED!

I am SHOCKED that this kind of information was withheld. It is SHAMEFUL! Those jurors will be FURIOUS!

I also feel SO NAIVE because I just could not have imagined that there could be yet "another" couple of SICK SICK SICK individuals that would happen to find each other!

sillybilly
05-10-2012, 07:37 PM
With any luck a few days from now Mr will be sitting in the cell next to PB. Wonder how sick he will feel then.

Maybe Roller-Eyes Rafferty was practising up for googly eyes at PB as Jim Smyth warned MTR in the interview.

Wondergirl
05-10-2012, 07:37 PM
No quetion the terms "underage rape", "real underage rape", "real underage rape picture" could in anyway be miscontrued for exactly what they are.

The same vile filth as what happened to Victoria.

Make me want to get sick.

Piece. Of. Trash.

I can only in my worst nightmare imagine what this POS did to Tori.

Rot in HELL, Rafferty.

JayFriend
05-10-2012, 07:37 PM
Wonder what the people who didn't feel MR is guilty on all counts are thinking now...
I believe they were going only by the evidence that was admitted and "innocent until proven guilty" and were swayed by Derstine's rhetoric. I also think there are people on this board who have aspirations to the legal profession and take the role of devil's advocate just for the sport and to see how far they can take it.

Knowing what we know now, it makes me wish that in its closing arguments, the Crown could have told the jury what they heard was only the tip of the iceberg and a large part of the evidence had to be suppressed because of a bungled search warrant and other technicalities.

What really frightens me is that the jury could find him not guilty, or just guilty of a lesser charge. They would never forgive themselves after learning the truth. I have always dreamed of serving on a jury, but when crap like this happens where a jury has to rule on inadequate evidence when the truth is withheld, I would want no part of it.

swedie
05-10-2012, 07:40 PM
Where can we follow the tweets minute by minute while jurors are deliberating and when a verdict comes forth? Please and thank you! <3

Peekaboo10
05-10-2012, 07:40 PM
No quetion the terms "underage rape", "real underage rape", "real underage rape picture" could in anyway be miscontrued for exactly what they are.

The same vile filth as what happened to Victoria.

Make me want to get sick.

Piece. Of. Trash.

I can only in my worst nightmare imagine what this POS did to Tori.

Rot in HELL, Rafferty.
Hell is too good for Rafferty.

Wondergirl
05-10-2012, 07:41 PM
I am beyond disgusted with what has come out so far, feeling sick to my stomach. Not sure if this has been posted so far, it's not really clear why this woman did not testify:

http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2012/05/10/what-the-jury-didnt-hear_n_1507746.html

The jury also did not know that in January 2009 a woman Rafferty met on dating website Plenty of Fish, where he met most of the other women he dated, invited Rafferty over to her house to watch a movie. According to a police complaint, he arrived with an already opened bottle of wine, poured her some, but did not drink any himself.

She told police she started to feel "fuzzy," the room started to spin and Rafferty climbed on top of her on the couch. He started choking her, removing her clothes and tying her hands behind her back, according to the police report, which was cited in court documents. She started vomiting, and Rafferty anally raped her while still choking her, she alleged.

There were no charges laid in the matter.

She was too terrifed to press charges.

The "fuzzy" part makes you wonder about the rape drug.

Sick bas&^^d.

Is it posible for your heart to break more than once?

Evil lurks.

Wondergirl
05-10-2012, 07:43 PM
This makes me sick.

http://nationalpostnews.files.wordpress.com/2012/05/rafferty-bernardo.jpg?w=620

Michael Rafferty’s police interview: ‘Am I sitting across from Paul Bernardo here?’


Cornered in a tiny room at the Woodstock, Ont., police station on May 19, 2009, a sniveling Rafferty nearly vomited into a bucket at the mention of Bernardo — who was convicted in 1995 of sexually assaulting and murdering two teenage girls, while he videotaped their torture.

“There’s no doubt in my mind that you’re involved in the abduction of Tori. No doubt at all. We’re past that,” says Det. Staff-Sgt. Chris Loam from the Ontario Provincial Police’s Behavioural Sciences unit.

http://news.nationalpost.com/2012/05/10/michael-raffertys-police-interview-am-i-sitting-across-from-paul-bernardo-here/

nursebeeme
05-10-2012, 07:45 PM
Where can we follow the tweets minute by minute while jurors are deliberating and when a verdict comes forth? Please and thank you! <3

http://twitter.com/#!/search/%23toristafford

this is general

Kamille
05-10-2012, 07:45 PM
I can't blame his mother, she may have had absolutely no idea.

If she was not informed of this via himself and/or his attorney he should be ashamed of himself even more.

If his mother is sitting at home right now and reading and hearing this for the first time I have no words.


MOO

matou
05-10-2012, 07:46 PM
Whoops, I started a new thread about what the jury didn't hear. Sorry, can you wipe my thread mods? xoxo

matou
05-10-2012, 07:47 PM
This proves he is a POS, can I say that now without a JMO?

sillybilly
05-10-2012, 07:47 PM
Sillybilly doesn't want to laugh or joke anymore today, or maybe even tomorrow. Want to throw up and sleep for an escape from one of the greatest injustices I have ever known.

IMO, the jurors will need more counselling as a result of what the justice system has done than what they have had to endure throughout this trial.

I am pro-victim, pro-LE, pro-justice, but today, the LAW IS AN ASS!!

Wondergirl
05-10-2012, 07:47 PM
Smyth had his number.


‘Mike, this is the girl you killed. She’s not missing anymore. She’s dead’


“You told her to get a girl and you wanted her young,” says Smyth.


Smyth, a seasoned interrogator who a year later drew a confession out of ex-Col. Russell Williams on the horrific murders of two women and sexual assault of two others in eastern Ontario, flies into a rage.

“Do you want to tell us your side of the story? Get rid of your f—ing security blanket and start being a man, because it is not going to be her semen we find on her body,” he says.

“Tori Stafford is all over your car. All over it. And Terri-Lynne explains everything we’re going to find and you’re explaining nothing. So I don’t give a f— if you say one more word, tell you the truth.”

http://news.nationalpost.com/2012/05/10/michael-raffertys-police-interview-am-i-sitting-across-from-paul-bernardo-here/

nursebeeme
05-10-2012, 07:48 PM
http://twitter.com/#!/raffertylfp

london free press twitter

nursebeeme
05-10-2012, 07:49 PM
Whoops, I started a new thread about what the jury didn't hear. Sorry, can you wipe my thread mods? xoxo

I think your thread is great! Keeps all the articles in one place!

Heliotrope
05-10-2012, 07:53 PM
So according to the interrogation MR did have a criminal record...hmm. Wow he sounds so pathetic in these interviews. "Poor sick guy". PUKE! MOO

Swedie, what do you mean about a criminal record? I just can't watch these videos right now.

Thanks

Wondergirl
05-10-2012, 07:53 PM
Victoria Stafford was not this creep's first victim.

I hope LE is going to charge him with other offenses.

nursebeeme
05-10-2012, 07:54 PM
can't they charge him with child porn? or was that also waylaid by the faulty warrant (most likely just answered my own question)

Wondergirl
05-10-2012, 07:55 PM
Christie Blatchford: The shocking child-porn evidence the Tori Stafford jury didn’t hear

Christie Blatchford (http://fullcomment.nationalpost.com/author/cblatchford/) May 10, 2012 – 4:58 PM ET | Last Updated: May 10, 2012 7:10 PM ET

http://fullcomment.nationalpost.com/2012/05/10/tori-stafford-michael-rafferty-evidence/

Wondergirl
05-10-2012, 07:57 PM
Even his Mother will be running for the hills with this garbage. She will be shocked, I am sure. Not like it wasn't bad enough with what we seen at trial.

Heliotrope
05-10-2012, 07:57 PM
I believe they were going only by the evidence that was admitted and "innocent until proven guilty" and were swayed by Derstine's rhetoric. I also think there are people on this board who have aspirations to the legal profession and take the role of devil's advocate just for the sport and to see how far they can take it.

Knowing what we know now, it makes me wish that in its closing arguments, the Crown could have told the jury what they heard was only the tip of the iceberg and a large part of the evidence had to be suppressed because of a bungled search warrant and other technicalities.

What really frightens me is that the jury could find him not guilty, or just guilty of a lesser charge. They would never forgive themselves after learning the truth. I have always dreamed of serving on a jury, but when crap like this happens where a jury has to rule on inadequate evidence when the truth is withheld, I would want no part of it.

If he's not found guilty, revelations like what we've just heard will seriously harm the jury system. The judge who worked so hard to protect the sanctity of the system has undermined it.

Every juror from now on will a little bit scared to acquit, scared of what they're not being shown, scared of letting the next Bernardo walk free.

Flossie JMO
05-10-2012, 07:59 PM
The jurors did hear that JG had a drug debt (as testified to by TM).

From the snippet you posted, it is my impression that the convo about taking a child was an interrogation between JG's dealer and LE, not a convo between JG and the dealer.

Make sense?

JMO

Hi yes makes sense and they heard when TM testified about the debt. I worry some jurors will think the debt was to TLM's mom. It was not clear before IMO, kwim?

Flossie JMO
05-10-2012, 08:01 PM
Wonder what the people who didn't feel MR is guilty on all counts are thinking now...

I can't speak for anyone else, but I'm sickened and angry and sad. I will still go with innocent until proven guilty with cases in the future, but very upset jurors couldn't hear it. They may be feeling the way I did, while they deliberate. JMO

swedie
05-10-2012, 08:02 PM
Thank you kindly Nurse! <3 The clock is ticking and in my heart and soul I feel Tori is guiding the jurors to do the right thing. Justice is hours away. MOO

http://twitter.com/#!/search/%23toristafford

this is general

nursebeeme
05-10-2012, 08:06 PM
guys.. it may not have been the warrant that was faulty after reading this!

Stripped to the core, the judge said that though the police had acted legally in getting search warrants for Mr. Rafferty’s home and car, and though they honestly believed that was sufficient to allow for a forensic examination of the hard drive, BlackBerry and laptop found therein, and though the law on such searches was then evolving, the police should have anticipated how it might change and sought another warrant to look at the devices.

In essence, Judge Heeney said, the police were good cops but bad lawyers.

As a “remedy” for what he called their carelessness, he deemed the search a violation of Mr. Rafferty’s Charter-guaranteed right against unreasonable search and seizure and threw the evidence out.

http://fullcomment.nationalpost.com/2012/05/10/tori-stafford-michael-rafferty-evidence/

another snip

In pre-trial arguments, Mr. Rafferty’s lawyer, Dirk Derstine, challenged almost everything about the search in trying to get the evidence tossed.

But Judge Heeney found the police had been honest and acted properly and legally — except that they sent the hard drive seized from Mr. Rafferty’s house and the BlackBerry and laptop found in his car to an OPP forensic examiner without getting a secondary warrant.

The law governing computer and electronic searches was then very much in a state of flux.

There had been judicial hints that without a secondary warrant, such searches might not survive a Charter challenge, but the matter simply wasn’t settled yet.

unbelievable... utterly

swedie
05-10-2012, 08:07 PM
Swedie, what do you mean about a criminal record? I just can't watch these videos right now.

Thanks

The detective talking to him in part 1 of 7 video said he has criminal issues in the past, saying car theft and MR corrected him about breaking into car and stealing. HTH

flipflop
05-10-2012, 08:08 PM
The judge ruled the child porn, the movies and the Google searches were all inadmissible because of a faulty search warrant. While police legally seized Rafferty's BlackBerry and computer with a May 22, 2009 warrant that allowed them to take items from his home and Honda Civic, the warrant didn't let them search the devices.

While "they were doing the best they could in the face of extremely difficult circumstances, the failure to later obtain a secondary warrant prior to searching the laptop and BlackBerry demonstrates a careless disregard as to whether the rights of (Rafferty) would be violated if they failed to do so," the judge said in a decision released Jan. 31, 2012.

http://m.torontosun.com/2012/05/10/rafferty-jury-didnt-hear-the-worst-of-it

swedie
05-10-2012, 08:10 PM
guys.. it may not have been the warrant that was faulty after reading this!



http://fullcomment.nationalpost.com/2012/05/10/tori-stafford-michael-rafferty-evidence/

another snip



unbelievable... utterly

As hard as it is to accept, I am glad judge Heeney did the right thing according to the law and hopefully prevented a mistrial. MOO

flipflop
05-10-2012, 08:13 PM
The Crown wanted to introduce all of this not as proof of his bad character — which wouldn't be allowed — but as evidence of Rafferty's planning to commit the rape of a child. But the judge refused to let jurors hear any of it.

"It would be hard for the jury to resist the temptation to conclude that (Rafferty) is a sexual deviant who is, therefore more likely to have committed the rape and murder of the victim, despite any instructions to the contrary."

So with no forensic evidence of a sexual assault — Tori's broken body was too badly decomposed — the jury was never given any reason to believe Rafferty was even interested in raping children, except for the word of McClintic, a self-confessed violent convicted killer.

They say justice is blind, but that shouldn't mean jurors are blindfolded.

http://m.torontosun.com/2012/05/10/rafferty-jury-didnt-hear-the-worst-of-it

Wondergirl
05-10-2012, 08:13 PM
The story behind McClintic's about-face

By RANDY RICHMOND, The London Free Press
Last Updated: May 10, 2012 1:04pm


It took three interviews in the spring of 2009 - and three hours in the last one - to get Terri-Lynne McClintic to finger Michael Rafferty for Victoria (Tori) Stafford's murder.

It took less than 10 minutes one day in the winter of 2012 for McClintic to change her mind and say she killed the girl.

Jurors in Rafferty's murder trial have part of, but not all of the strange path McClintic took to the stand as the Crown's key, but perhaps unreliable, witness.

http://www.lfpress.com/news/london/raffertytrial/2012/05/10/19741656.html

Wondergirl
05-10-2012, 08:15 PM
This rings pretty effing hollow right now. GMAFB

I could seriously vomit.


Rafferty jury deliberating

By HANK DANISZEWSKI, The London Free Press
Last Updated: May 10, 2012 8:02pm


"You can only imagine how any of us would be feeling in his circumstance," his lawyer Dirk Derstine said outside court. "Literally the rest of his life is before him right now."

http://www.lfpress.com/news/london/raffertytrial/2012/05/10/19743841.html

Flossie JMO
05-10-2012, 08:17 PM
If anyone hasn't seen it, Gardens of the Night is a disturbing and no doubt reflection of reality in abduction of children for sick sexual reasons. Tom Arnold did a great job as a vile disgusting character. As I watched it I thought omg it can be this easy for this sick b*astards. All the poor innocent defenseless kids breaks my heart. JMO

Wondergirl
05-10-2012, 08:17 PM
The Crown wanted to introduce all of this not as proof of his bad character — which wouldn't be allowed — but as evidence of Rafferty's planning to commit the rape of a child. But the judge refused to let jurors hear any of it.

"It would be hard for the jury to resist the temptation to conclude that (Rafferty) is a sexual deviant who is, therefore more likely to have committed the rape and murder of the victim, despite any instructions to the contrary."

So with no forensic evidence of a sexual assault — Tori's broken body was too badly decomposed — the jury was never given any reason to believe Rafferty was even interested in raping children, except for the word of McClintic, a self-confessed violent convicted killer.

They say justice is blind, but that shouldn't mean jurors are blindfolded.

http://m.torontosun.com/2012/05/10/rafferty-jury-didnt-hear-the-worst-of-it


BBM: And THAT is why I have faith that if he is found not-guilty, that an appeal will be strong, because, I fail to see how that Judge was not wrong in disallowing this evidence.

paris_paris
05-10-2012, 08:19 PM
Swedie, what do you mean about a criminal record? I just can't watch these videos right now.

Thanks

I thought I couldn't watch either, but in the first minute MTR is blubbering because he hasn't eaten since noon. Made me smile a little bit.

This video is easier to watch than reading the newest online articles.

BorgQueen
05-10-2012, 08:19 PM
guys.. it may not have been the warrant that was faulty after reading this!



http://fullcomment.nationalpost.com/2012/05/10/tori-stafford-michael-rafferty-evidence/

another snip



unbelievable... utterly

Child pornography should be exempt from such laws, and allowed, no matter what, as evidence. Period.
Children need to be protected, and if this guy gets off on some stupid technicality... 'upsetting' doesn't begin to describe how I feel about that

Oldsoul2
05-10-2012, 08:19 PM
After hearing MR's interrogation (amongst other evidence but hearing him speak) I have to say he is a pure psychopath to the 100th degree and a pathological liar

Wondergirl
05-10-2012, 08:21 PM
"Philandering Cad" is not exactly synonymous with "snuff films", "real underage rape pictures" and "drugged, forced, gagged, anal sex".

I am livid.

FFS

KMouse
05-10-2012, 08:23 PM
OMG.

Crying.

You are not the only one.

From day one I suspected this but I feel sick being right.

Poor child.

Allanae
05-10-2012, 08:25 PM
Child pornography should be exempt from such laws, and allowed, no matter what, as evidence. Period.
Children need to be protected, and if this guy gets off on some stupid technicality... 'upsetting' doesn't begin to describe how I feel about that
If he gets off because of this I think we need to fight for a new law on issues involving this type of crap involving our children.

They had a warrant to search his vehicle, so had a right to his laptop. I get that they need a second warrant to search the electronic devices but it doesn't make sense. Did they need a second warrant to open up his gym bag??!!

Wondergirl
05-10-2012, 08:26 PM
POS.

He is everything speculated, and so much more.

Children between the ages of 1 and 18?

Revolting.


``In my view, it cannot be said that society's interests in the adjudication of the case on its merits are best served by admitting evidence that was obtained by means of a charter breach, when its probative value is so weak and its prejudicial effect will be so devastating,'' Heeney wrote in his pre-trial ruling.

Data fragments on Rafferty's laptop indicate he had been downloading child pornography since 2005.

The Hollywood movie``Gardens of the Night,'' about the abduction of a young, blond girl -- which deviates substantially from what allegedly happened to Tori after the abduction -- was downloaded 11 days before she disappeared.

The movie ``Karla,'' about Karla Homolka and Paul Bernardo, was downloaded two weeks later.

Investigators also said they found evidence on the laptop of videos ``depicting 'how-to' instructions for child sexual assault,'' and evidence ``of recent possession of 'snuff' films inclusive of one with a title suggestive of a child target.''

Most of the videos depicted ``a variety of graphic and coercive images of violent sexual abuse involving children between one and eighteen years of age,'' the Crown documents say.

http://www.am980.ca/channels/news/local/Story.aspx?ID=1702061

nursebeeme
05-10-2012, 08:29 PM
If he gets off because of this I think we need to fight for a new law on issues involving this type of crap involving our children.

They had a warrant to search his vehicle, so had a right to his laptop. I get that they need a second warrant to search the electronic devices but it doesn't make sense. Did they need a second warrant to open up his gym bag??!!

the article I posted said that the law was in a state of flux at the time so no... they should have been fine at the time with the one warrant...

it was the judge who threw it out...

JayFriend
05-10-2012, 08:29 PM
If she was not informed of this via himself and/or his attorney he should be ashamed of himself even more.

If his mother is sitting at home right now and reading and hearing this for the first time I have no words.


MOO

Yeah, I bet she wishes she had never said the few words to the media that she did and wishes she had never attended the courthouse. Of course she never knew what her son did and never snooped through his computer because she respected his privacy.

Wondergirl
05-10-2012, 08:30 PM
Wtf.

Omg.


the crown was only seeking to introduce some of the searches - the ones directly related to the alleged offences - it says rafferty made on his laptop: ``underage rape,'' ``real underage rape,''``real underage rape pictures,'' ``nude preteen,'' ``how to find preteen websites,'' and ``preteen nude model galleries.''

they weren't seeking to include searches for: ``transgender,'' ``she male,'' ``necrophilia videos,'' ``real rape,'' ``best program to download child porn,'' ``naked girl seazing (sic),'' ``seizures girl,'' ``seizures videos,'' ``epileptic naked,'' ``epileptic naked attack,'' ``real gang rape'' and ``peeing.''
the crown says all the searches were made between jan. 25 and april 7, 2009. Tori was abducted on april 8

http://www.am980.ca/channels/news/local/story.aspx?id=1702061
.

nursebeeme
05-10-2012, 08:33 PM
Wtf.

Omg.
okay.. so now all this talk about Tori having to use the restroom and the defense talking about her being attacked when she used the restroom really makes my hair stand on end about his google of "peeing"

omg..

I don't think we will ever know what happened to Tori that day...

snoofer
05-10-2012, 08:34 PM
OMG WHAT A SICK &^*%! I always wondered why nothing was released about his laptop; now I know and I feel absolutely sick. I am so disgusted and this is very telling of whose idea it was to abduct Tori. WTH? Why was this held back from the jurors? It's who MR is and very telling of his mind frame. OMG! MOO

and derstine tried to say tlm was the engine behind it all; even though he knew what the evidence was that was being withheld from the jury.....ewwwwwwww. MOO

flipflop
05-10-2012, 08:34 PM
Mr. Rafferty actually had one of his reluctant partners sign a waiver, giving him consent to choke her. “I agree to what Mike and I are doing tonight, sexual choking and passing out and other things,” it read.

The sexual choking had some real significance given Ms. McClintic’s evidence — in her first version of the killing, when she claimed it was Mr. Rafferty who did it — that she had heard a “gurgling” sound coming from Tori in the moments before her death.

She interpreted that to mean the little girl was being choked, a practice with which she was not unfamiliar.

http://fullcomment.nationalpost.com/2012/05/10/tori-stafford-michael-rafferty-evidence/

Wondergirl
05-10-2012, 08:34 PM
okay.. so now all this talk about Tori having to use the restroom and the defense talking about her being attacked when she used the restroom really makes my hair stand on end about his google of "peeing"

omg..

I don't think we will ever know what happened to Tori that day...

My thoughts exactly.

Hair standing on end about the peeing.

Tori peeing was part of the crime too. No wonder it didn't make sense. I could vomit.

KMouse
05-10-2012, 08:35 PM
If he gets off because of this I think we need to fight for a new law on issues involving this type of crap involving our children.

They had a warrant to search his vehicle, so had a right to his laptop. I get that they need a second warrant to search the electronic devices but it doesn't make sense. Did they need a second warrant to open up his gym bag??!!

Regardless of the verdict we need to write to our MPs about this.

Flossie JMO
05-10-2012, 08:35 PM
I just started watching the 7 part interview....in part one you can see MR gag and about to be sick after Investigator said "I am sitting across from a Paul Bernardo"

http://www.lfpress.com/news/london/raffertytrial/2012/05/10/19743421.html

MR's Interview in 7 parts
1/7
http://www.lfpress.com/news/london/raffertytrial/2012/05/10/19743421.html
2/7
http://www.lfpress.com/news/london/raffertytrial/2012/05/10/19743416.html
3/7
http://www.lfpress.com/news/london/raffertytrial/2012/05/10/19743351.html
4/7
http://www.lfpress.com/news/london/raffertytrial/2012/05/10/19743321.html
5/7
http://www.lfpress.com/news/london/raffertytrial/2012/05/10/19743301.html
6/7
http://www.lfpress.com/news/london/raffertytrial/2012/05/10/19743296.html
7/7
http://www.lfpress.com/news/london/raffertytrial/2012/05/10/19743266.html

thanks for posting Flip, wonder why I can't view them? happens to me with a lot of videos for some reason? anyone know?

snoofer
05-10-2012, 08:39 PM
After hearing MR's interrogation (amongst other evidence but hearing him speak) I have to say he is a pure psychopath to the 100th degree and a pathological liar

what a game he played with the detectives in the interrogation video, wow when u hear him speak you can see the pathology in his words and demeaner. Imagine what a frustrating character he would have been at home...the lies and in school...it must have been a nightmare having him in their schools as a kid as this doesn't just appear over night. It is like he is from another planet. MOO

IMO his mother is lucky to be rid of him. What a nightmare. MOO This is the only way she would ever have been rid of that albatross. MOO

Wondergirl
05-10-2012, 08:40 PM
Rafferty had his victim sign a consent note to things she did not want to do.

There are no words.


Carnegie also noted the ``significant'' amount of cautions the Crown placed on the long string of former girlfriends who were called to testify, suggesting they had a lot of bad character evidence about Rafferty.

``The amount of restraint the Crown has exercised with respect to these former partners of Mr. Rafferty has been nothing short of herculean,'' Carnegie said.

``This is a case that has had character landmines all over it and we have been very delicate in how we have been trying to deal with those.''

Some of the girlfriends, Carnegie said, have ``interesting and perhaps disconcerting things to say and conclusions drawn from various behaviours of Mr. Rafferty about his behaviours towards their children.'' He did not elaborate.

However, the Crown documents say the investigation ``revealed a considerable history of alleged but previously unreported sexual violence that, if believed, demonstrates a rather significant escalation in violence over the few years and months preceding this matter."

The investigation uncovered 13 women who reported that Rafferty had a penchant for sexual choking - some of which they said was not consensual.

Investigators said they were told Rafferty had one woman who was reluctant to participate in his sexual violence sign a consent note, saying she agreed ``to what Mike and I are doing tonight sexual choking and passing out and other things.''

http://www.am980.ca/channels/news/local/Story.aspx?ID=1702061

Alison
05-10-2012, 08:44 PM
would have been good for the jurors to know this about the rip off:

Many interviewed, including the dealer himself, told how Goris was involved in a deal that shortchanged the dealer $600 for some Oxycontins.

The dealer dismissed any suggestion he'd take a child for any debt, never mind one so small. If he felt that strongly about it, the dealer told police, he'd simply take a baseball bat to the offending party.

Friends interviewed by police described McDonald as too calm considering the circumstances, or in some cases, distracted by other matters. Some questioned why they were raising money for a trust fund.

Exactly what I said. They would have took JG out to the back forty and fixed him good, not target a child.

Wondergirl
05-10-2012, 08:47 PM
O/T

No Verdict Tonight

London Free Press‏@RaffertyLFP (Press‏@RaffertyLFP)

The jurors are done deliberating for the night without a verdict - they will resume at 9 a.m. tomorrow.

KMouse
05-10-2012, 08:49 PM
http://fullcomment.nationalpost.com/2012/05/10/tori-stafford-michael-rafferty-evidence/

"Mr. Derstine worried that Mr. Rafferty would appear a deviant"

Is this world nuts or what?

Peekaboo10
05-10-2012, 08:50 PM
http://fullcomment.nationalpost.com/2012/05/10/tori-stafford-michael-rafferty-evidence/

"Mr. Derstine worried that Mr. Rafferty would appear a deviant"

Is this world nuts or what?
He IS a deviant!!!!!! OMG I am still so livid about all this BS!

snoofer
05-10-2012, 08:51 PM
I thought I couldn't watch either, but in the first minute MTR is blubbering because he hasn't eaten since noon. Made me smile a little bit.

This video is easier to watch than reading the newest online articles.

he was tired and hungry...poor baby...shoulda ripped that little yellow blanket off him and stop giving him timmies! MOO

snoofer
05-10-2012, 08:54 PM
will he be now charged with the rape and drugging of the other girl? and also the destroying of evidence etc etc etc..... MOO

Flossie JMO
05-10-2012, 08:54 PM
Exactly what I said. They would have took JG out to the back forty and fixed him good, not target a child.

well you were right with this case.

I hope the jurors think that way, however a child has been targeted in at least 1 other case I know of, and another it's possible as well but motive has not been disclosed.

Retired FBI profiler Van Zandt (sp) has spoken about children being taken for drug debts, he said the majority of child abductions by non family members is by drug cartels. JMO

flipflop
05-10-2012, 08:55 PM
Even his Mother will be running for the hills with this garbage. She will be shocked, I am sure. Not like it wasn't bad enough with what we seen at trial.

Im guessing she won't be making that statement to the media like she said she would. JMO

snoofer
05-10-2012, 08:58 PM
Im guessing she won't be making that statement to the media like she said she would. JMO

if she does, then we know...... MOO

Alison
05-10-2012, 08:58 PM
JMO But Derstine is a POS. Who would try and fight for this man. I don't give a rats ass if that is his job. How does he live with himself? Every defence lawyer should have turned this sick SOB down! I am so freaking mad.

Alison
05-10-2012, 08:59 PM
well you were right with this case.

I hope the jurors think that way, however a child has been targeted in at least 1 other case I know of, and another it's possible as well but motive has not been disclosed.

Retired FBI profiler Van Zandt (sp) has spoken about children being taken for drug debts, he said the majority of child abductions by non family members is by drug cartels. JMO

I think it is very rare in Canada JMO. Perhaps different in the States, closer to the Mexican border? JMO

snoofer
05-10-2012, 08:59 PM
JMO But Derstine is a POS. Who would try and fight for this man. I don't give a rats ass if that is his job. How does he live with himself? Every defence lawyer should have turned this sick SOB down! I am so freaking mad.

he said TLM was the engine. BS! Nice one Derstine. MOO

JayFriend
05-10-2012, 09:01 PM
As hard as it is to accept, I am glad judge Heeney did the right thing according to the law and hopefully prevented a mistrial. MOO
Well, I sure hope the jury comes back with guilty on all counts or no agreement, so there's a mistrial. Nothing else is acceptable.

I see from the tweets they're done for tonight with no verdict. The longer this takes, the worse it looks for justice.

Flossie JMO
05-10-2012, 09:01 PM
bbl, keep Tori and her loved ones in your prayers and pray for a just verdict :(

snoofer
05-10-2012, 09:02 PM
Well, MTR should have heard by now he is now the most hated deviant in Canada. MOO

pls pls pls put him in the worst hole in Kingston Pen then send him to Millhaven when it closes. MOO

Heliotrope
05-10-2012, 09:02 PM
Exactly what I said. They would have took JG out to the back forty and fixed him good, not target a child.

Yup, that was my personal experience, too - the person in my section who was a serious addict would show up to work with bruises, an elaborate explanation for the bruises and a sudden need to borrow cash.

In some ways, it is just another business. Drug dealer, Enron Exec...it's all about the money.

Alison
05-10-2012, 09:05 PM
Well, I sure hope the jury comes back with guilty on all counts or no agreement, so there's a mistrial. Nothing else is acceptable.

I see from the tweets they're done for tonight with no verdict. The longer this takes, the worse it looks for justice.

I figured 4 hours (wishful thinking). So tomorrow morning, fingers are crossed. I do agree that it has to be either or. I can not imagine him getting off. I just can not even stomach the thought.

giantalkinghead
05-10-2012, 09:05 PM
I still haven't finished getting caught up with all of the reading.... I am SOOOOO angry it is beyond belief !!! There are 12 people being duped in this story.... the JURY !!! I am soooo disgusted with the Justice system in Canada !! I wrote at one other time previously on this board that I am a family member of one of Bernardo and Homolka's victims. I have been praying that this jury gets the verdict right and that BOTH of them are locked up for the rest of their lives. The pain of losing a loved one to this sort of crime never goes away. It is with us for the rest of our lives. Living with the injustice that Homolka walks the streets a free woman, is beyond what any person should have to bear. I cannot promise that if I ever saw her walking down the street and I was driving by that I wouldn't run her down. I pray that the family will see justice !!!

and what is it with these damned defence lawyers ??? For the love of GOD !! I don't know how they sleep at night !!!

If I were in London right now --- I'd be trying to find out where that jury is staying... I'd be burning a candlight vigil and wrapping that courthouse or wherever they are in purple ribbons and balloons - I don't know..... I'm beyond angry.... I'm just about loosing it the more that I read !!! I'm thoroughly DISGUSTED !!!!!!!!!!!!

Alison
05-10-2012, 09:07 PM
I hope they send a copy of the LFP to Millhaven/Kingston just so they all know who they will be welcoming.

snoofer
05-10-2012, 09:07 PM
his mother best be telling him to plead guilty on all 3 counts. But she won't. MOO

Sailor Bug
05-10-2012, 09:07 PM
But among his episodes of Young and Restless, Rafferty left a computer record of frighteningly unhealthy appetites the jury would never know. He liked to visit ogrish.com, a web site with gruesome photos of terrible injuries and death. He Google searched "children for sale"; and looked for images of "naked girl hanged" and "girl beat up."

Between Jan. 25 and April 7, 2009, he was doing Internet searches on "underage rape" and "real underage rape pictures" as well as "necrophilia videos" and "epileptic naked attack" and "real gang rape."

Using the file-sharing LimeWire software, he had downloaded nine movies depicting child pornography. One was downloaded just a month before the abduction. It was called, "rape lolita real snuff."

http://m.torontosun.com/2012/05/10/rafferty-jury-didnt-hear-the-worst-of-it
------------------------------------------------------------------------------

OMG....so many tears tonight
This is all so horrific...Praying for JUSTICE for Tori

snoofer
05-10-2012, 09:08 PM
I hope they send a copy of the LFP to Millhaven/Kingston just so they all know who they will be welcoming.

I hope Det Smyth hands an lfp paper to MTR immediately in person. MOO So he knows all his dirty little secrets are out and he is the most hated deviant in the country right now. MOO
But then....MTR would just smirk...JMO

I know guys, I just feel tied in knots about this, there is an imbalance here and yes the true dupes are the jurors. MOO The law needs to make this right. JMO Somehow they have to make it right.

sillybilly
05-10-2012, 09:08 PM
As hard as it is to accept, I am glad judge Heeney did the right thing according to the law and hopefully prevented a mistrial. MOO

I disagree that Judge Heeney did the right thing. If the law wasn't even in effect at the time, he should not have ruled on a future event that it was impossible for him to predict. He had no way of knowing whether or not that law would be retroactive to the time of the warrant at issue, in which case it was a legal warrant at the time.

He should have allowed the evidence which was obtained in accordance with laws that existed at that time, and then any subsequent law that changed the laws of search & seizure which was retroactive could have been grounds for an appeal ... but such critical information would have been in the hands of the jury.

JMO

roseofsharon
05-10-2012, 09:09 PM
OMG! MTR is Sooo sick! Had this pair not been caught, the two of them, I'm sure, and in MOO, would have gone on to do this again and again.

He is so sick, he still believes he did not do anything. In the police interrogation, he is delusional.

All just MOO.

Heliotrope
05-10-2012, 09:12 PM
Well, MTR should have heard by now he is now the most hated man in Canada. MOO

You've got to scratch your head and wonder - does he think that he'll go back to normal life? Get his Civic and Blackberry and Pumas out of lockup and go back to doing what he was doing. Zipping around town... making friends and influencing people, raping and murdering other children. What a ****ing *******, an utter ****ing *******.

Where's the swear jar, BTW? I owe.

JayFriend
05-10-2012, 09:13 PM
thanks for posting Flip, wonder why I can't view them? happens to me with a lot of videos for some reason? anyone know?

What browser are you using? I was unable to see the LFP raw videos in Firefox and had to use IE Tab. Turns out Adblock Plus was the culprit, so I disabled it for the LFP site. Flashblock still blocks most of the ads.

sillybilly
05-10-2012, 09:13 PM
Child pornography should be exempt from such laws, and allowed, no matter what, as evidence. Period.
Children need to be protected, and if this guy gets off on some stupid technicality... 'upsetting' doesn't begin to describe how I feel about that

Had he been charged with rioting or highjacking or such, then I could see that the history of child porn and deviant behaviour would not be relevant, but to think that what was withheld was such a critical component that related to the charges at hand ... IMO that is a total miscarriage of justice.

snoofer
05-10-2012, 09:14 PM
You've got to scratch your head and wonder - does he think that he'll go back to normal life? Get his Civic and Blackberry and Pumas out of lockup and go back to doing what he was doing. Zipping around town... making friends and influencing people, raping and murdering other children. What a ****ing *******, an utter ****ing *******.

Where's the swear jar, BTW? I owe.

oh yes, back to mamma's house. omg, they need to crush that car! Do it now LE. MOO

sillybilly
05-10-2012, 09:16 PM
the article I posted said that the law was in a state of flux at the time so no... they should have been fine at the time with the one warrant...

it was the judge who threw it out...

It was a "faulty judge", not a "faulty warrant".

snoofer
05-10-2012, 09:22 PM
do the jurors KNOW that some stuff was withheld from them???moo

sillybilly
05-10-2012, 09:24 PM
I hope they send a copy of the LFP to Millhaven/Kingston just so they all know who they will be welcoming.

I'd prefer to slip a copy into the jury room with their morning coffee and croissants ;)

snoofer
05-10-2012, 09:25 PM
no wonder LE gets frustrated with the court system. They do the job and collect the info, track these POS's down, put their heart and soul into the effort....for what...to have it shot down in courts. MOO

myzzy
05-10-2012, 09:27 PM
Im in tears, I feel so horrible, and "Duped" . I'm sorry Tori and my heart will forever have you in it.

I pray that the jury will not be duped and some of the evidence that im sure we missed they were able to see through it.

Im sorry

Alison
05-10-2012, 09:29 PM
no wonder LE gets frustrated with the court system. They do the job and collect the info, track these POS's down, put their heart and soul into the effort....for what...to have it shot down in courts. MOO

I agree. Officers must get sick of the revolving door. They bring them in the courts toss them out. BS.

brighidin
05-10-2012, 09:29 PM
do the jurors KNOW that some stuff was withheld from them???moo

Ii would guess that they may know, just because of all the legal arguments they had to leave the courtroom for. I see that the child porn evidence was ruled inadmissible before the trial even started, so who knows.

I have a really, really bad feeling about this.

swedie
05-10-2012, 09:31 PM
I disagree that Judge Heeney did the right thing. If the law wasn't even in effect at the time, he should not have ruled on a future event that it was impossible for him to predict. He had no way of knowing whether or not that law would be retroactive to the time of the warrant at issue, in which case it was a legal warrant at the time.

He should have allowed the evidence which was obtained in accordance with laws that existed at that time, and then any subsequent law that changed the laws of search & seizure which was retroactive could have been grounds for an appeal ... but such critical information would have been in the hands of the jury.

JMO

Sorry Silly, I missed the fact that it was law at the time. I feel certain the jurors have sufficient information without this disgusting withheld information but it certainly would have been the cherry on top. MOO

snoofer
05-10-2012, 09:33 PM
Ii would guess that they may know, just because of all the legal arguments they had to leave the courtroom for. I see that the child porn evidence was ruled inadmissible before the trial even started, so who knows.

I have a really, really bad feeling about this.

I do too but at the same time I have faith in karma and the belief that things always come full circle. MOO We may not always see it, but karma is always on the march, it is patient and it is part of the cycle of life. JMO

maxfactor
05-10-2012, 09:33 PM
I hope they send a copy of the LFP to Millhaven/Kingston just so they all know who they will be welcoming.

No worries, I think they know. ;)

flipflop
05-10-2012, 09:35 PM
will he be now charged with the rape and drugging of the other girl? and also the destroying of evidence etc etc etc..... MOO

I read that the gf didn't press charges, so no.

swedie
05-10-2012, 09:35 PM
oh yes, back to mamma's house. omg, they need to crush that car! Do it now LE. MOO

And make him watch ;) Bye bye baby. Wasn't his car his baby IIRC? Well I don't think he'll be zipping around town now for at least 25 years hopefully never. MOO

snoofer
05-10-2012, 09:36 PM
I read that the gf didn't press charges, so no.

she could change her mind? MOO

sillybilly
05-10-2012, 09:37 PM
No worries, I think they know. ;)

Care to share? LOL

JK max

swedie
05-10-2012, 09:37 PM
I do too but at the same time I have faith in karma and the belief that things always come full circle. MOO We may not always see it, but karma is always on the march, it is patient and it is part of the cycle of life. JMO

Think positive peeps! JUSTICE FOR TORI!!

snoofer
05-10-2012, 09:37 PM
And make him watch ;) Bye bye baby. Wasn't his car his baby IIRC? Well I don't think he'll be zipping around town now for at least 25 years hopefully never. MOO

lol they could make one of those little car beds out of it!!!!!!! MOO

i hear the walls are color coded at millhaven....i think he should be in a purple room MOO Start painting!

swedie
05-10-2012, 09:39 PM
Ii would guess that they may know, just because of all the legal arguments they had to leave the courtroom for. I see that the child porn evidence was ruled inadmissible before the trial even started, so who knows.

I have a really, really bad feeling about this.

...and they will see in the car evidence photos where his laptop is sitting on his car seat and they never heard anything about that. MOO.

sillybilly
05-10-2012, 09:40 PM
she could change her mind? MOO

Actually, it's not up to her to press charges. In the case of rape (oh 'scuse me ... sexual assault), it is a criminal charge which would be laid by LE. Maybe she didn't go to LE at the time, or would have been reluctant to testify, in which case the Crown might not proceed to trial.

JMO

maxfactor
05-10-2012, 09:41 PM
Care to share? LOL

JK max

Well, any of the ones I come in contact with know. lol And they tell two friends, and they tell two friends...

jenniferleia
05-10-2012, 09:42 PM
I can't even express in words how upset I am. Been crying all night! How could this happen?!?!? It is much worse then I ever expected. I am so distraught by this. Everyone pray that the jury makes the right decision!

Alison
05-10-2012, 09:43 PM
He asks "what happens to all my friends?". What a sick bastard. Does not even care about the little girl he killed but about his social life.

swedie
05-10-2012, 09:43 PM
lol they could make one of those little car beds out of it!!!!!!! MOO

i hear the walls are color coded at millhaven....i think he should be in a purple room MOO Start painting!

Make him sleep on it without a mattress...ouchie lol. Purple everything!! Food colouring in his mush they will be feeding him. MR must like purple as he had the nerve to wear it in court a couple of times, so disgusted his lawyers brought him purple clothing and then more disgusted MR wore them. MOO

snoofer
05-10-2012, 09:43 PM
omg Det Smythe must have been so angry with MTR in that interview....I was soooo angry listening to his snide little remarks, so cocky and arrogant. MOO

giantalkinghead
05-10-2012, 09:44 PM
Even his Mother will be running for the hills with this garbage. She will be shocked, I am sure. Not like it wasn't bad enough with what we seen at trial.


His Mother should get herself down to wherever they are holding this piece of crap and tell him to change his plea to guilty if he can !!

sillybilly
05-10-2012, 09:44 PM
Well, any of the ones I come in contact with know. lol And they tell two friends, and they tell two friends...

Okay peeps ... just in case we get our wish, round up every criminal you've ever met and spread the good word !!

maxfactor
05-10-2012, 09:44 PM
Had he been charged with rioting or highjacking or such, then I could see that the history of child porn and deviant behaviour would not be relevant, but to think that what was withheld was such a critical component that related to the charges at hand ... IMO that is a total miscarriage of justice.

I totally agree with you!!! This goes to motive IMO, I can't for the life of me understand why the judge ruled as he did. Wouldn't this be grounds for an appeal by the Crown if the jury finds him not guilty?

snoofer
05-10-2012, 09:44 PM
pleeeeesssseeee millhaven paint his room barney purple!!!!!!!!!!!!! MOO

maxfactor
05-10-2012, 09:45 PM
Okay peeps ... just in case we get our wish, round up every criminal you've ever met and spread the good word !!

lol SB! I meant guards not criminals! lol But now that you mention it there's lots of them around here too!

swedie
05-10-2012, 09:46 PM
Aww hugs to you Dear. :( I have been pray from day one. Worse then anyone could have imagined. Prayers, prayers and more prayers. Stay positive Dear WS friends. MOO

I can't even express in words how upset I am. Been crying all night! How could this happen?!?!? It is much worse then I ever expected. I am so distraught by this. Everyone pray that the jury makes the right decision!

snoofer
05-10-2012, 09:46 PM
Okay peeps ... just in case we get our wish, round up every criminal you've ever met and spread the good word !!

k....it is a good idea....but..um...i don't know any criminals..not even one :O(

MOO

LilyMacBloom
05-10-2012, 09:47 PM
ummm...Judge Heeney do you have children?
Dirk, do you have children?
are they girls?
Honestly, if I was either of your wife right now, you'd be sleeping on the couch after today news!

I can't remember who posted this thought in the other trial thread, but it went something like some posters just get caught up with the minute details well, somewhere along the line someone really dropped the ball here and got caught up in minute details. Where did good old common sense go???
There had to be a better way to deal with the search warrant issue than the way it was handled.

It will be interesting to see what kind of public outcry there will be and what the response will be.

sillybilly
05-10-2012, 09:48 PM
I totally agree with you!!! This goes to motive IMO, I can't for the life of me understand why the judge ruled as he did. Wouldn't this be grounds for an appeal by the Crown if the jury finds him not guilty?

Max, I'm thinking the Crown will be on this like cheese on pizza (and probably have been preparing all along, just in case)

Am trying to recall within the last year or so, there was verdict handed down (may have even been out here in BC), where it was felt that the verdict was so unjust that the Solicitor General's office ordered a new trial.

maxfactor
05-10-2012, 09:49 PM
Aww hugs to you Dear. :( I have been pray from day one. Worse then anyone could have imagined. Prayers, prayers and more prayers. Stay positive Dear WS friends. MOO

You're such a sweetie Swedie, I hope you are right but I have a bit of a sick feeling.

snoofer
05-10-2012, 09:50 PM
ummm...Judge Heeney do you have children?
Dirk, do you have children?
are they girls?
Honestly, if I was either of your wife right now, you'd be sleeping on the couch after today news!

I can't remember who posted this thought in the other trial thread, but it went something like some posters just get caught up with the minute details well, somewhere along the line someone really dropped the ball here and got caught up in minute details. Where did good old common sense go???
There had to be a better way to deal with the search warrant issue than the way it was handled.

It will be interesting to see what kind of public outcry there will be and what the response will be.

i believe it was Tahorn. MOO

sillybilly
05-10-2012, 09:52 PM
I totally agree with you!!! This goes to motive IMO, I can't for the life of me understand why the judge ruled as he did. Wouldn't this be grounds for an appeal by the Crown if the jury finds him not guilty?

Also, maybe, hopefully ... what i said earlier about the search & seizure laws taht were in effect at the time, Crown may go forward with an Appeal on the grounds that Judge Heeney made an error in law related to the warrant.

For some reason, the more i think, the more i'm starting to feel hopeful that something can/will be done in the event of NG.

swedie
05-10-2012, 09:53 PM
He asks "what happens to all my friends?". What a sick bastard. Does not even care about the little girl he killed but about his social life.

Pffft I don't think he had any friends in all seriousness. Acquaintances and duped women only. JMHO. We've never heard about any male friends in his life. Something very odd about that IMHO. AND the women he had in his life, all he did was use them and abuse them (sexually and mentally) Again MOO.

snoofer
05-10-2012, 09:54 PM
Also, maybe, hopefully ... what i said earlier about the search & seizure laws taht were in effect at the time, Crown may go forward with an Appeal on the grounds that Judge Heeney made an error in law related to the warrant.

For some reason, the more i think, the more i'm starting to feel hopeful that something can/will be done in the event of NG.

yes it sounds like something that could be grounds for appeal by crown. I just cannot ever see them letting him walk without turning over every stone. MOO

roseofsharon
05-10-2012, 09:56 PM
He asks "what happens to all my friends?". What a sick bastard. Does not even care about the little girl he killed but about his social life.

He complains HE is hungry! He's cold, he's tired. He stikes me as very much a momma's boy ... no wonder he moved back home. Not that his crimes coincide with this comment --- but he is very immature for his age. MOO

snoofer
05-10-2012, 09:56 PM
Pffft I don't think he had any friends in all seriousness. Acquaintances and duped women only. JMHO. We've never heard about any male friends in his life. Something very odd about that IMHO. AND the women he had in his life, all he did was use them and abuse them (sexually and mentally) Again MOO.

guys tend to weed out those that don't fit, he was odd, and it was in his voice and the way he spoke and the types of things he said. MOO Also, let's face it, a man's man is working, they fix stuff, and have their own places. He was a loser. Most men would have no time of day for that. MOO

swedie
05-10-2012, 09:56 PM
You're such a sweetie Swedie, I hope you are right but I have a bit of a sick feeling.

Hugs Max. I think that is from the disgusting info we are now privy to. I feel ill too. STAY AND THINK POSITIVE PLEASE!! <3

Alison
05-10-2012, 09:57 PM
OMG all he does is whine. Can you imagine that in jail.

LilyMacBloom
05-10-2012, 09:58 PM
I'm not much of a praying girl myself, well not more than an OMG here and there, but tonight,
"now I lay me down to sleep, jury justice thus to keep"
Amen

Night folks, and thanks again for all the tweeters/news keepers/
Somehow I feel like we're also sequestered in our own support system.

Mystic
05-10-2012, 09:58 PM
If this SOB is found NG, it will be the biggest travesty of justice in Canadian history.

i'd like to add it would be 2nd biggest one off hand

snoofer
05-10-2012, 09:59 PM
OMG all he does is whine. Can you imagine that in jail. I would slap it...every chance I got. MOO

swedie
05-10-2012, 10:01 PM
guys tend to weed out those that don't fit, he was odd, and it was in his voice and the way he spoke and the types of things he said. MOO

You're right Snoof, very correct. There is obviously something very seriously wrong in more ways than one with MR. I cannot believe something didn't happen criminally long before this. It's quite possible it has, MR was just never caught. Example being the woman who was drugged and the women who spoke out about their children. (BTW, I still haven't finished reading that). UGH. MOO.

snoofer
05-10-2012, 10:04 PM
You're right Snoof, very correct. There is obviously something very seriously wrong in more ways than one with MR. I cannot believe something didn't happen criminally long before this. It's quite possible it has, MR was just never caught. Example being the woman who was drugged and the women who spoke out about their children. (BTW, I still haven't finished reading that). UGH. MOO.

scarey stuff. MOO

swedie
05-10-2012, 10:04 PM
He complains HE is hungry! He's cold, he's tired. He stikes me as very much a momma's boy ... no wonder he moved back home. Not that his crimes coincide with this comment --- but he is very immature for his age. MOO

Another characteristic of a narcissist; it's all about them and their needs. Looking for sympathy and trying to come off or feel like a victim pfft. MOO

snoofer
05-10-2012, 10:05 PM
He asks "what happens to all my friends?". What a sick bastard. Does not even care about the little girl he killed but about his social life.

and THAT is a true psychopath. MOO

flipflop
05-10-2012, 10:05 PM
yes it sounds like something that could be grounds for appeal by crown. I just cannot ever see them letting him walk without turning over every stone. MOO

I doubt he will be walking....but if he ever does....I don't think he will get too many steps in...

roseofsharon
05-10-2012, 10:07 PM
My thoughts are with Tori's loved ones tonight.

So many of us feeling sick tonight ;( My thoughts are also with everyone in our WS forum that have been together so long for TS!

flipflop
05-10-2012, 10:07 PM
He complains HE is hungry! He's cold, he's tired. He stikes me as very much a momma's boy ... no wonder he moved back home. Not that his crimes coincide with this comment --- but he is very immature for his age. MOO

He complained he was hungry as he hadn't eatten since lunch time.....hmmmm VS probably didn't eat since lunch time on APril 8....he should have been reminded of that fact!!!!!

jenniferleia
05-10-2012, 10:07 PM
Aww hugs to you Dear. :( I have been pray from day one. Worse then anyone could have imagined. Prayers, prayers and more prayers. Stay positive Dear WS friends. MOO

Thank you so much. This is the second time I sobbed for Victoria...there will be one more time (at least) when the verdict is reached and I hope it is a good sob!!!

snoofer
05-10-2012, 10:08 PM
His Mother should get herself down to wherever they are holding this piece of crap and tell him to change his plea to guilty if he can !!

and slap him a few times MOO

dar107
05-10-2012, 10:08 PM
I feel confident that the jury will come to the conclusion of guilty on all counts. I had many doubts at the beginning of this trial as to what really happened that horrible day. Those doubts slowly began to fade, and I think the videos of the detention centre visits was what really started turning my opinion on MR. I myself and I think maybe others wanted to hold on to the possibility that Tori did not have to suffer through a violent sexual assault before being brutally murdered. I hoped she had suffered as little as possible and it was not about MR, it was about Tori that I wanted to believe he was not an evil sick child predator. With the information out now, I have no doubt whatsoever and it is just heart breaking. I wish like all that the jury could have heard such compelling evidence that we are now, but I still think they have heard and seen enough. They will do the right thing and MR will spend his life in jail. There can never be enough justice for crimes against children, never. All I can hope is that there a special place with endless suffering reserved for those who do these things in the afterlife.

I want to thank each and everyone of you who have so contributed your opinions and thoughts so passionately in this forum from beginning to end. Things may get heated and feathers ruffled, but in the end I believe we are all here for Tori. She is what first brought me here to this wonderful site. She drew me here and I followed the stories of other little angels gone way to soon, Somer Thompson, Zarha Baker two angels whose stories I would probly never would have known about if I had not discovered Websleuths. All of their stories have touched my life and opened my eyes to many things.

Rest in Peace Tori sweet angel, they will not be able to ever hurt another innocent child again.

Mystic
05-10-2012, 10:09 PM
Too bad the laws couldn't be changed to make those found guilty of these crimes, to extend their sentence time for wasting money on a trial. MOO Tack on another 25 years for financial pay back.

i'd like the uproar to make them revisit our judical system, supposedly its all to protect the innocent but imo it's just a whole lot of red tape that allows the guilty to go free and commit more horrific crimes. Its ridiculous and I think it needs to change. If anything related to the crime that is found that would be indicative of the person having done the crime.. it should be admisable.. bottom line. The laptop, bb and anything to do with those women and their children, yup even charactor. There you have people be juror's whom are not educated or know much about the system alot of times being given less then needed to judge appropriately. MR was a sexual deviant and that should have been brought into the courtroom. An innocent person would not have all that crap going on. We need some balance here, we set ourselves to fail at protecting our children. jmo if MR gets off or out he will do it again

swedie
05-10-2012, 10:10 PM
OOHHH Part 4 video. Det. Smyth tells MR to get rid of the F&^%ing security blanket and be a man. :O I kinda lol ed as he is so right. That bit is tense. MOO

roseofsharon
05-10-2012, 10:11 PM
Make him sleep on it without a mattress...ouchie lol. Purple everything!! Food colouring in his mush they will be feeding him. MR must like purple as he had the nerve to wear it in court a couple of times, so disgusted his lawyers brought him purple clothing and then more disgusted MR wore them. MOO

I wish I had saved the picture, but I saw a picture of MR standing amongst purple balloons. The picture appeared to be taken inside a hotel.
I don't know if I would ever be able to find the link again.

maxfactor
05-10-2012, 10:12 PM
Sorry if this was already posted, here is what Rodney had to say today,

http://www.lfpress.com/news/london/raffertytrial/2012/05/10/19743571.html

jenniferleia
05-10-2012, 10:13 PM
Also, maybe, hopefully ... what i said earlier about the search & seizure laws taht were in effect at the time, Crown may go forward with an Appeal on the grounds that Judge Heeney made an error in law related to the warrant.

For some reason, the more i think, the more i'm starting to feel hopeful that something can/will be done in the event of NG.


I sure hope so. This is unbelievable.

Mystic
05-10-2012, 10:13 PM
He's a pedophile, TLM was the innocent dupe.

yes, its what i've pretty much felt from the beginning, he was the engine, the socialpath.. TLM was a young broken human being prone to do anything for a bit of love and attention. I knew it when she opted out of a trial, I just knew MR was going to try to do a KH and blame it all on her.

Alison
05-10-2012, 10:13 PM
"Terri-Lynne was arrested for a stabbing, Terri-Lynne was arrested for this, arrested for that". He really did pick a perfect scapegoat. Except it did not work!!!

Wondergirl
05-10-2012, 10:13 PM
Would anyone be completely offended if I added WTF to every post?

WTF?

Bizarrely, an enduring difficulty with the Google searches was that if all of them were introduced — Mr. Rafferty had also searched for “naked girl seizing,” “seizures girl,” and “epileptic naked” — Mr. Derstine worried that Mr. Rafferty would appear a deviant, and if only the child-rape ones were allowed, it would appear he was interested only in sex with children, when he was in fact interested in sex with epileptics too.

http://fullcomment.nationalpost.com/2012/05/10/tori-stafford-michael-rafferty-evidence/

snoofer
05-10-2012, 10:15 PM
OOHHH Part 4 video. Det. Smyth tells MR to get rid of the F&^%ing security blanket and be a man. :O I kinda lol ed as he is so right. That bit is tense. MOO

omg how did i miss that.....i woulda ripped it off him! That is too funny. MOO And who the devil gave him the coffee and twinkie! MOO

snoofer
05-10-2012, 10:16 PM
OOHHH Part 4 video. Det. Smyth tells MR to get rid of the F&^%ing security blanket and be a man. :O I kinda lol ed as he is so right. That bit is tense. MOO

link?

puppyraiser
05-10-2012, 10:18 PM
And to think, that sick SOB had the nerve to wear purple on the most difficult day of testimony.
Wonder if we'll ever hear about his past- you know, the past he regrets and wishes he could change. If he didn't feel remorse about what he did to Tori then what did he do that was so awful he felt the need to write about it on facebook?????

Are there any unsolved rape/murder cases involving the victim being choked to death that should be looked into a little more closely??

maxfactor
05-10-2012, 10:19 PM
But he was lying, Smyth said, when he told Rafferty he was having a good time.



http://www.woodstocksentinelreview.com/2012/05/10/cop-told-accused-lies

paris_paris
05-10-2012, 10:21 PM
If something goes wrong and he gets away with this, I'm making it my mission to find that damned car seat myself.

I'm so glad to see everyone on the same page here. What happened to all the posters who were so sure MTR was innocent?

Alison
05-10-2012, 10:21 PM
"being a sleeze ball does not make me ahh ah what I am being accused of" Even he can not even verbalize what it is he is.

P.S. Hi craziladi :)

roseofsharon
05-10-2012, 10:23 PM
At one time I thought his FB comment was related to his drug run that day, but now I really do think it was because he was going to live his sick fantasy. It is even sick that he would even want to post that comment on FB. MOO

dar107
05-10-2012, 10:24 PM
He's a pedophile, TLM was the innocent dupe.

I think they are both just as rotten as the other. TLM is nowhere near and anything but an innocent dupe in any of this JMO . MOO is she knew why she was taking Tori, and it makes her a sexual predator in my eyes as much as him. To me they are equals in every sense.

lightlady
05-10-2012, 10:24 PM
Unfortunately those posters that did not feel there was enough evidence were working off the same evidence the jury has! We all need to pray that they are coming to the right decisions, even though not privy to these latest details.

giantalkinghead
05-10-2012, 10:27 PM
For anyone intersted in writing to our Federal Minister of Justice , Rob Nicolson and letting him know what you feel about the "Blindfolding of the Justice system" Here is a link to the Government website and his email address :

http://www.justice.gc.ca/eng/contact/Comm3.html

Heliotrope
05-10-2012, 10:29 PM
His Mother should get herself down to wherever they are holding this piece of crap and tell him to change his plea to guilty if he can !!

His mother should have taken him down to the river and drowned him when she had the chance, 31 odd years ago.

That's something the old folks where I come from would say when someone turned out to be a 'bad apple' - rural Canada folk wisdom, we're not as nice as people think! It seemed a bit harsh at the time, but now I'm thinking the old folks were on to something. Or maybe I'm becoming one of the old folks.

Disclaimer - I'm venting. This has been a difficult day.

Wondergirl
05-10-2012, 10:30 PM
Indeed.

When the Jurors do find this information out, how will they NOT feel misled?

But how will they not feel misled, these jurors who are now deliberating the fate of Michael Rafferty, not knowing he had a hungry interest in child pornography and necrophilia, did extensive Internet searches on "underage rape" and downloaded a disturbing movie that featured an "angelic blonde" kidnapping victim who looked just like Tori Stafford?

http://m.torontosun.com/2012/05/10/rafferty-jury-didnt-hear-the-worst-of-it

crazyladi
05-10-2012, 10:31 PM
Okay I am back!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Salem I am sorry that I didnt think before I spoke and I said things I shouldn't have. During the last three days I was yelling out loud that there has to be more that is why Derstine didnt put him on the stand... So Salem and everyone I want to say to you all I am sorry I may have made comments that were not appropriate for this site and if I can say anything............LESSON LEARNED!!! It was tough reading and not being able to thank people.. there were so many good posts such as sillybilly. I am sorry for you loses and I cant imagine how that feels and I appreciate you being here.

I have to say I expected something to come out but not what they found on the lap top I was not expecting at all.

Yes I knew there were mothers out there that said something wasnt right with Rafferty and their children, that I sensed and that is why I was on the fence about the sexual assault and now.... I am saying 100% on all 3 charges but I am not certain the jury will. I am so saddened that this happened and that these things were not allowed to be brought up but I do think the crown has a very very very solid case. These jurors are going to be soooo angry when they found out what wasnt allowed once they reach a verdict. I feel bad for them its not right. Once you seize a car with a warrant you get it all why the heck do you have to get 2 warrants

I went through many tears in the last couple of hours and I really hope Justice is served. If this guy gets anything less than 1st degree murder I think I will not be able to stop the flow of tears falling.

Thank you for all those ladies/men that left me messages seeing if I was okay. You guys are awesome. I couldn't have survived this without your messages. you guys are just awesome and I am so happy I am back before the verdict is being read.... I swear he better go down or I seriously am not going to be okay.

I cant believe this creep existed. So sad for all of those mothers that have children and that he made those comments too, and the women that he raped.

I just cant believe what they have said. He is a true Paul Bernardo wannabee.

Wondergirl
05-10-2012, 10:32 PM
OMG.

There is no end to the despicable acts.


But among his episodes of Young and Restless, Rafferty left a computer record of frighteningly unhealthy appetites the jury would never know. He liked to visit ogrish.com, a web site with gruesome photos of terrible injuries and death. He Google searched "children for sale"; and looked for images of "naked girl hanged" and "girl beat up."

Between Jan. 25 and April 7, 2009, he was doing Internet searches on "underage rape" and "real underage rape pictures" as well as "necrophilia videos" and "epileptic naked attack" and "real gang rape."

Using the file-sharing LimeWire software, he had downloaded nine movies depicting child pornography. One was downloaded just a month before the abduction. It was called, "rape lolita real snuff."

http://m.torontosun.com/2012/05/10/rafferty-jury-didnt-hear-the-worst-of-it

dar107
05-10-2012, 10:36 PM
Unfortunately those posters that did not feel there was enough evidence were working off the same evidence the jury has! We all need to pray that they are coming to the right decisions, even though not privy to these latest details.

ITA agree and I don't think it is the time to try and single out those who were not on the same page as the majority. If someone wants to say, hey maybe i was wrong or if I had only known what is being reported now, etc. as i have already done, then that's great and I would hope it can be done in a friendly and respectful environment. JMO

Tahorn
05-10-2012, 10:41 PM
i believe it was Tahorn. MOO

With the evidence presented I believed he was duped, I couldn't understand how that could happen ... A dare, WTF a child was raped and killed over a dare.

However now I know I was wrong, so very very wrong ... like others I know to be honest reasonable people who also believed there was doubt ... How could we be so wrong. I couldn't understand why no laptop, nothing the women said made him out like a predator, nothing but TLM word ... I couldn't understand why the case wasn't presented in it's whole...now I know why.

I pray that none of the jury felt the way I did a few hours ago ... I went to church, for the first time in years and prayed for them to find him guilty...prayed that RS was able to find peace.

I am completely devastated this evidence was presented ... It is a travesty.

Mystic
05-10-2012, 10:45 PM
Child pornography should be exempt from such laws, and allowed, no matter what, as evidence. Period.
Children need to be protected, and if this guy gets off on some stupid technicality... 'upsetting' doesn't begin to describe how I feel about that

they sur do, and that's what Tori's law should be about, I hope something will come to a head that changes it so that critical evidence can not be withheld

dar107
05-10-2012, 10:48 PM
With the evidence presented I believed he was duped, I couldn't understand how that could happen ... A dare, WTF a child was raped and killed over a dare.

However now I know I was wrong, so very very wrong ... like others I know to be honest reasonable people who also believed there was doubt ... How could we be so wrong. I couldn't understand why no laptop, nothing the women said made home out like a predator, nothing but TLM word ... I couldn't understand why the case wasn't presented in it's whole...now I know way.

I pray that none of the jury felt the way I did a few hours ago ... I went to church, for the first time in years and prayed for them to find him guilty...prayed that RS was able to find peace.

I am completely devastated this evidence was presented ... It is a travesty.

BBM I could not understand that either, and i thought maybe because there was nothing on it that would incriminate him. I kept thinking surely they would have found something to do with child pornography on his PCs but when nothing was presented, ....

I can think of 2 cases off the top of my head where the perp watched child porn right before the crime. I can't believe the warrants got messed up! In a case of such proportions and all the time they needed, how could they have not dotted every I and crossed every T!!!!

crazyladi
05-10-2012, 10:49 PM
I am sorry you search a car with a warrant you should be allowed to search whatever there is in that car especially if the information is about child porn. This is where Canada is behind in the times. Pedophiles should have no rights!!

Tahorn
05-10-2012, 10:52 PM
Unfortunately those posters that did not feel there was enough evidence were working off the same evidence the jury has! We all need to pray that they are coming to the right decisions, even though not privy to these latest details.

I was one of those people that believed he was duped. I just hope that the jury was able to see more then I did. I prayed that the did ... After watching the video I hope they saw the smugness ... Dear god, I know we don't talk often but we need you know ... Please help VS find her justice ... Please protect our child ... Please god we need you now.

swedie
05-10-2012, 10:52 PM
During Det. Smyth's interrogation in part 6 he tells MR he's heard MR has a seven year old daughter, nieces, nephews and MR replies to all..."guess you'll find out". Woah very telling. Moo

puppyraiser
05-10-2012, 10:54 PM
With the evidence presented I believed he was duped, I couldn't understand how that could happen ... A dare, WTF a child was raped and killed over a dare.

However now I know I was wrong, so very very wrong ... like others I know to be honest reasonable people who also believed there was doubt ... How could we be so wrong. I couldn't understand why no laptop, nothing the women said made home out like a predator, nothing but TLM word ... I couldn't understand why the case wasn't presented in it's whole...now I know way.

I pray that none of the jury felt the way I did a few hours ago ... I went to church, for the first time in years and prayed for them to find him guilty...prayed that RS was able to find peace.

I am completely devastated this evidence was presented ... It is a travesty.

Interesting how people rationalize things or view the same evidence so differently. (And I sincerely mean no disrespect by that). For me, it was the TOTAL LACK of any info about the computer and the lack of anything whatsoever being said about his character and sexual preferences that made me realize there was a lot the defense was fighting VERY HARD to keep out. There were too many legal arguments during the ex-girlfriends' testimonies.

Mystic
05-10-2012, 10:55 PM
Well, I sure hope the jury comes back with guilty on all counts or no agreement, so there's a mistrial. Nothing else is acceptable.

I see from the tweets they're done for tonight with no verdict. The longer this takes, the worse it looks for justice.

i'm praying they already concluded he's guilty on all counts and are just feeling they should at least appear like they read all the charges & tree check list

mystic

crazyladi
05-10-2012, 10:56 PM
During Det. Smyth's interrogation in part 6 he tells MR he's heard MR has a seven year old daughter, nieces, nephews and MR replies to all..."guess you'll find out". Woah very telling. Moo

OMG!!! a 7yr old?? I couldnt get past the first one because of my connection at home but I will look at work tomorrow. Let me know if you have more info.

Man I totally knew there was more to him and if Derstine put him on the stand he would have been crushed. He did the best he could.

I tell you one thing I could never be a defense lawyer!!!!

sillybilly
05-10-2012, 10:58 PM
All so this slimeball could get a fair trial ... where's the fairness to Tori and her loved ones, and the general public who trusted the system wouldn't let them down.

Hey Big Guy ... we're needing some Divine Intervention here !!

<Amen and Thanks from Canada>

Wondergirl
05-10-2012, 10:59 PM
Child pornography should be exempt from such laws, and allowed, no matter what, as evidence. Period.
Children need to be protected, and if this guy gets off on some stupid technicality... 'upsetting' doesn't begin to describe how I feel about that

Re-posting, well said.

Wondergirl
05-10-2012, 11:03 PM
and derstine tried to say tlm was the engine behind it all; even though he knew what the evidence was that was being withheld from the jury.....ewwwwwwww. MOO


Exactly.

He doesn't actually WANT his POS client out on the street, does he?

Pretty disgusting.

Alison
05-10-2012, 11:03 PM
I think Smyth was goading MR. He was hoping he would make a threat towards him so he could take him down. JMO

Tahorn
05-10-2012, 11:06 PM
Interesting how people rationalize things or view the same evidence so differently. (And I sincerely mean no disrespect by that). For me, it was the TOTAL LACK of any info about the computer and the lack of anything whatsoever being said about his character and sexual preferences that made me realize there was a lot the defense was fighting VERY HARD to keep out. There were too many legal arguments during the ex-girlfriends' testimonies.

With TLM confessing before MR was arrested I could not imagine that any evidence would be keep out. How could a warrant be faulty when they already knew what they were looking for before they even arrested him. For me it had to be a lack of evidence, TLM change in testimony and no concrete evidence ... That made me question what was going on and gave me reason to doubt.

I hope no one on the jury feels the way I did ...

justicefortori
05-10-2012, 11:07 PM
Im still trying to catch up, but omg! how does this happen? how is it that everyone gets to know the truth, EXCEPT the 12 people deciding the verdict!! how does that make ANY sense?!!?! i dont care whether they found it under a faulty warrant. why do have to care about HIS rights??? what happened to Toris rights????? Unbelievable. I pray the jury comes to the right decision.... i will feel truly sorry for them if they dont.

Salem
05-10-2012, 11:09 PM
I figured 4 hours (wishful thinking). So tomorrow morning, fingers are crossed. I do agree that it has to be either or. I can not imagine him getting off. I just can not even stomach the thought.

If they went to dinner at 6 and there are 12 of them, they probably didn't finish until 7:15 to 7:30ish, then back to the Courthouse so they probably didn't even get started until 8:00ish, picked a foreman, maybe, maybe took an initial vote to see what everyone was thinking and then broke for the night to rest and get ready for a hard day tomorrow.

So tonight, I would conservatively guess 1 hour of actual deliberation time. Tomorrow.... we could get a verdict anytime after noon, I think. They had a lot of material to go over, so that will take them a couple of hours I think?

We could still get a verdict in 4 hours (or am I just wishful thinking?)

Salem

puppyraiser
05-10-2012, 11:10 PM
If he's found NG and the Crown files an appeal, then it's going to be difficult to find another jury of 12 who have not heard, read, seen this latest information. It's a complete outrage that this info was not heard by this jury.
As much as the 'deal with the devil' enraged Canadians, this latest bombshell is right there at the top of worst moments in Canadian legal history.