PDA

View Full Version : Australia - Allison Baden-Clay, 43, Brisbane QLD, 19 April 2012 - #7


Pages : 1 [2] 3 4 5

BCD
05-13-2012, 03:19 AM
I hope when an arrest is made we get some 'connected dots' but for what it's worth some information from a relative who lives in that area, is a mum and 'plugged' into the gossip...I hate hearsay..but it's all I have right now:
-GBC was living at home
-ABC went to have her hair done (in prep for Friday's conference for which she'd have to leave home much earlier than usual)
-there was a sleepover that Thursday night (no girls at home)
-so GBC and ABC were alone
-my relative 'assumed' that they were at Elder GBC's...but not sure now

Which, when this first happened, made me think that it was premeditated on GBC's part...but of course not so sure now.

The fact that they may have 'left' ABC's body up-stream near the scout camp (sounded crazy because how much guilter does that make GBC look? but maybe he wasn't arrogant, pannicked, didn't think that SO MANY PEOPLE would notice his wife missing?)!!!

I saw that pic that Ixnaye uploaded - the Elder BC's at the funeral - contempt, arrogance? Just awful to look at. It makes me think - they had the kids that night, EBC Grandad got called out to 'help', the girls were asleep at Grandma's...of course Grandad would eventually tell Grandma 'something'...hence that god-awful 'kiss' - we're in this together - us against them (very South African, I can say that, because I married one first time round)....again...so awful...IMO if it is true.

oreily85
05-13-2012, 03:19 AM
Those taxidermed animals heads at the BWANA's home deeply disturb me. I keep telling myself it is not rational to be so repulsed, but I really think they send a horrible message. I have never seen anything like it, and I haven't led a sheltered life.

Ditto, I think the message it sends is probably what alot of people are thinking...

plentyofnous
05-13-2012, 03:20 AM
I believe they have held back so they won't prejudice the case. If they made a big deal about any alleged belief GBC is the perp it would be all over the media and start a potential situation where GBC could use 'trial by media' as a way of saying he can't get a fair trial. I think everyone is laying low for all the same reaaons, to allow nothing dramatic to take off about GBC being guilty, so the police can get everything they need and then nail him! Revenge is best served cold, as they say.

There doesn t seem to be a case except for the odd we are going to make an arrest, there may be an accomplice, IMO the longer this drags the less likely they will be able to secure perp, if it was GBC should have happened by now IMO more to it im guessing

Ippygal
05-13-2012, 03:20 AM
Geez his financial problems aren't about to get any better now he's got 2 lawyers to pay for!

Couldbe
05-13-2012, 03:23 AM
It was never going to be Brookfield; I know there is that 'search protocol' etc.
Gap Creek - not really any side roads to turn off into - but plenty up at the Mt - and the river!

Yep - Alicat def has some psychic abilities - she nailed that bridge!

Know what you mean too.

tessawa
05-13-2012, 03:28 AM
Yes. ABC was found under a bridge but the 'thinking' IMO to date is that she was put somewhere up-stream (where she may never have been found, apparently, because there's so much 'obstruction' trapped up there due to last January's flood - trees, debris, junk etc) and because of heaving rains after she went 'missing' April 19 - the body came 'unstuck' and floated down the river. (Sorry, this sounds ghastly I know.)

SKMA your 'theory'/'advice' from lawyer-land makes 100% sense to me. An 'old man' waiting at a bus-stop in the dark...be a miracle if anyone could actually identify him there..ie 'isn't that Gerard's old man sitting there?!'....Brisbane's a small town, but not that small I think! (I worry about this 'lack of evidence' to convict the Elder BC too.)

Top-notch SKMA and is a great 'reason' for the police's concentration on this bloody round-about! Which has been so frustrating for many of us - some 'outlandish'/out there theories have been tabled - which is all good/interesting - but this sounds very, very plausible to me.

This 'love tap' - an argument gone-wrong, horror of horrors his plea of 'self-defence'...I worry that GBC sentence will be so light as to not to be worth anything...considering what he has taken from his family - the girls, the Dickies. Makes me SICK. I hate to think what the defence attorneys are 'cooking up' in respect to this. How CAN they live with themselves?!

The father being an accomplice - I think, YES. The TM? No. She would have to be a complete idiot to have been an accomplice in this - an 'old' affair - manslaughter/ murder? There is love/lust - but killing another human being? The wife? The mother of three children? (And I think she would have lawyered up much sooner if she was directly involved. I think the police are just 'scaring' her for details - hence all those interviews. Getting the 'dirt', for want of a better word and the 'details' on the marriage and on GBC.)

Only some awful father-son dynamic could get together and be complicit in this. Since Thread 1 there have been many, many comments on the 'distasteful' way GBC and elder BC's have acquitted themselves throughout this awful time. (Also that GBC had a BIG temper.) So I don't bat one eyelid that that Father is involved. Covering up for his son. The son - a big, bloody narcissist who is really a big coward asking for his Daddy's help when he's done something not just wrong...but.... Ugh...Just doesn't bear thinking about...Horrible, Horrible. IMO. If it is true.

Yes. She would've lawyered up sooner, and 'battened down the hatches' like gbc did, if she was directly involved. Seemed confident body would never be found. TM was quite amenable and willing to assist police prior to the discovery of body, without legal rep.
Don't be too hasty to put TM on the sideline just yet. She may not have been involved directly with abc's disappearance on 19/4, but implicated in some other way. If it was pre-meditated, as suggested earlier, it's possible.

Futureinsight
05-13-2012, 03:34 AM
This is my first post here, but I have been following for a week or so, reading a few pages in each of the threads (so I haven't read every page - far from it).

Through my real estate connections I know everyone involved in this case except for Allison (I met her once, as I recall). It does shock me that GBC (and others) could even be accused of such a crime, and I hope that he had nothing to do with it. I know him reasonably well at a professional level, and I know he has made some poor business decisions that hit other people hard financially, but murder is taking it to another level (if he is guilty ... and I emphasise IF).

I have recently spoken with one person who has previously been mentioned in this series of threads, and they have read through some of the comments here. This has caused them a great deal of stress (can you imagine what it would be like if you were in their shoes???), as they know Allison well and they definitely had nothing to do with her tragic death.

Please, take care how you speak of people in this case. Some one (or perhaps two) are guilty parties, but the rest are innocent, so please think about that before posting as some of you have caused enormous stress for some people.

We all want the guilty person to be charged, but we also want all innocent parties to be treated with respect and the assumption of innocence.

Thanks :)

Yeh I could imagine how Distressing it would be to be named here as a possible murderer or accessory to a murder or even as the other woman.... Just because you worked at the real estate... There has been someone named often on this thread as the OW but is this based on any fact??? Sorry I may have missed this during the Hundreds of posts on these threads... From local rumour there definately is suggestion of one existing that ABC became aware of in weeks previous to her death.... But is it the one being named here constantly???? I doubt the person who gets interviewed 3 times by police and gets a lawyer would pop around for coffee to the BCs house... Pretty sure lawyers from all parties would not be suggesting that....

crissyz
05-13-2012, 03:37 AM
I agree Greg and I think EBC is fully aware of everything that happened that night too. I think that is what was behind that bizarre kissing scene. That was her way of saying that she was standing by her man so to speak.

Did you see the pictures of the Senior Baden-Clays at the funeral. Just looks of contempt on their faces.

Thank you! This was the pic I was trying to find to post after seeing their faces... how harsh! I hope the girls never have to see this pic :(

Cccclllaareb
05-13-2012, 03:37 AM
wait to be gracious, I m glad its not my daughter I know where I would get the answers

I've never been in their shoes, so I have no idea how I would behave. I like to think I would know exactly what I'd do but I understand situational forces can be very strong. With this in mind, I choose to refrain from thinking things like 'if i were so and so i would do this or that'. So I'm looking at all the aspects of this case objectively, and from my personal perspective I think they are going about things in the most constructive and sensible way possible

EllaN
05-13-2012, 03:47 AM
Is it common knowledge there are cameras there and what they capture? Is it possible they didn't know it was there?

Sorry mate, but I didn't know that there are cameras there

Southern Rain
05-13-2012, 03:49 AM
1. Do we know any more about the trailer? I believe this is being deliberately being overlooked
2. What about the camera footage from the roundabout?
3. Is there a mistress involved and who is she?

Candarella
05-13-2012, 03:57 AM
Um...very South African...what does that mean?

Champagne4lulu
05-13-2012, 04:00 AM
Geez his financial problems aren't about to get any better now he's got 2 lawyers to pay for!

That's what I don't understand. How do people in this situation afford lawyers like these? My guess is they dont come cheap! If GBC has financial issues how is he affording it? I'm guessing this situation is not exactly helping his financial status?

Inanna
05-13-2012, 04:04 AM
Now I am confused..
So if the police wouldn't leave a murderer with 3 kids, GBC is def not a suspect, and they have no evidence against him - because if they did they would have arrested him by now?? or they just do not have enough evidence..

IF GBC is infact the murderer in this case - they wouldn't necessarily have arrested him yet. We cannot just go and arrest people because they are the most likely to have committed the crime! When a case cannot be proven due to lack of evidence in 75% of cases the suspect makes an error that aids in their arrest.
The final results have not come back from the autopsy - I suggest until that happens an arrest is unlikely.

This is all just conjecture that it is the husband - yes the spouse is the most likely to be the murderer in these cases. Therefore he is suspected. BUT lynching by public opinion is grossly unfair and is actually what we have fought for - a just JUSTICE system.

mumof2
05-13-2012, 04:08 AM
Someone else i think, this bridge is on a main roadway with a reasonable amount of traffic, they seemed to have a fair bit of time to dispose, so i think if it was BC s , they would have hidden much much better. Posters are making calls of BC s being strange, but they are not dumb, where ABC was found is too stupid a place to dispose of ABC when there are many many more alternatives where she would never been found.

i think it has been established that she was dumped up near the scout camp and was washed down - it is very secluded up there.

would be interesting to see if GBC/NBC/TM have any history of selling any houses in the wirrabarra/bunya st area - they would know exactly how quiet is out there

minni
05-13-2012, 04:09 AM
I was thinking about this, too. If GBC had gone out the back way, up Rafting Ground, right on to Moggill, he could have met Bwana there. Bwana would only have had to drive into Kilkivan Avenue and turned right on to Moggill Rd, go maybe 500 metres to meet him.

Was it before or after the body had been dumped?

Maybe it was for anonymity? The backroads would have been awfully silent and empty at that time of night.

Was it specifically to dispose of crap in the industrial bins there?

i really do think so

Neuromancer
05-13-2012, 04:09 AM
1. Do we know any more about the trailer? I believe this is being deliberately being overlooked
Oh dear. Maybe explain why there even should be anything about a trailer? There are no reports of one, and no logical reason to use one, in fact it would have been incredibly stupid to use one, so...?

2. What about the camera footage from the roundabout?
Any that exists is only in police hands.

3. Is there a mistress involved and who is she?
Rumour says yes but it would be unfair to name as such. Even so there's abundant speculation in the preceeding 200 pages - try putting relevant terms into search and you can find plenty. :)

factfinda
05-13-2012, 04:10 AM
This is my first post here, but I have been following for a week or so, reading a few pages in each of the threads (so I haven't read every page - far from it).

Through my real estate connections I know everyone involved in this case except for Allison (I met her once, as I recall). It does shock me that GBC (and others) could even be accused of such a crime, and I hope that he had nothing to do with it. I know him reasonably well at a professional level, and I know he has made some poor business decisions that hit other people hard financially, but murder is taking it to another level (if he is guilty ... and I emphasise IF).

I have recently spoken with one person who has previously been mentioned in this series of threads, and they have read through some of the comments here. This has caused them a great deal of stress (can you imagine what it would be like if you were in their shoes???), as they know Allison well and they definitely had nothing to do with her tragic death.

Please, take care how you speak of people in this case. Some one (or perhaps two) are guilty parties, but the rest are innocent, so please think about that before posting as some of you have caused enormous stress for some people.

We all want the guilty person to be charged, but we also want all innocent parties to be treated with respect and the assumption of innocence.

Thanks :)


This person makes an excellent point. It would be a shame to destroy innocent people's lives/reputations just for the sake of some over-enthusiastic gossip.

CJ60
05-13-2012, 04:11 AM
I agree Greg and I think EBC is fully aware of everything that happened that night too. I think that is what was behind that bizarre kissing scene. That was her way of saying that she was standing by her man so to speak.

Did you see the pictures of the Senior Baden-Clays at the funeral. Just looks of contempt on their faces.

IMO GBC and BC Seniors all know what happened that night. I feel nothing but contempt for this family; how can they look at those little girls and not feel any guilt or remorse - you would have to be selfish, evil people to not feel anything, and just try to save your own skin. Allison's mum and dad deserve answers. Allison will never get to see her children finish school, help them plan for their formal, graduate from Uni, marry, have children or be a grandmother herself. Someone took her life. If they know what has happened, they are just as guilty as the person that killed her. Well, I hope the rantings of that holy man and his prophecy comes true - the worst is yet to come for that family.

minni
05-13-2012, 04:11 AM
and also...NBC may believe he was thinking quickly and sharply at the time and thought he was avoiding any witnesses near his home...all the time unaware of, or not considering the cctvat roundabout?

SKMA
05-13-2012, 04:13 AM
If you are interested in a taste of the Baden-Clay family, follow the link; it is the order of service for GBC's grandfather. Three-quarters of the way down the page are the memories Nigel Clay has of his father. It illustrates their place in society and why, perhaps, they may mistakenly consider themselves above the law (and also why he has animal skulls proudly displayed outside his house).

http://www.spanglefish.com/gervasclay/index.asp?pageid=158939

Southern Rain
05-13-2012, 04:14 AM
http://radar.oreilly.com/2011/04/apple-location-tracking.html

Interesting - what do they get when the compared GBC's phone signal to ABC's signal at the times between 11pm and 4am on the evening she apparently disappeared? What about other persons of interest? Would make an interesting overlay...

Ippygal
05-13-2012, 04:15 AM
That's what I don't understand. How do people in this situation afford lawyers like these? My guess is they dont come cheap! If GBC has financial issues how is he affording it? I'm guessing this situation is not exactly helping his financial status?

His business will be massively affected too I would imagine, even if he's not convicted- reputation will be tarnished forever... I've often wondered how suspects pay their legal costs, especially when they're convicted and locked up!!!

Inanna
05-13-2012, 04:16 AM
Oh dear. Maybe explain why there even should be anything about a trailer? There are no reports of one, and no logical reason to use one, in fact it would have been incredibly stupid to use one, so...?

Thank God someone has finally said it! There was no trailer - it is the least likely way of transporting the body!

Southern Rain
05-13-2012, 04:18 AM
Oh dear. Maybe explain why there even should be anything about a trailer? There are no reports of one, and no logical reason to use one, in fact it would have been incredibly stupid to use one, so...?


Any that exists is only in police hands.


Rumour says yes but it would be unfair to name as such. Even so there's abundant speculation in the preceeding 200 pages - try putting relevant terms into search and you can find plenty. :)


So what you are saying is that you don't know. Why would not a trailer be used? How can you discount that? It seems you know only what you have read in the press.

Southern Rain
05-13-2012, 04:21 AM
Thank God someone has finally said it! There was no trailer - it is the least likely way of transporting the body!

I suppose you could put the body in the boot/trunk? Strap on to the roof racks? Place in a seat secured with a seat belt ala weekend at Bernies.

How people discount a trailer? I am sure the police have not!

Cccclllaareb
05-13-2012, 04:22 AM
There is no reason why anyone would think a trailer was involved, so there's no point starting that rumour up (again)

Southern Rain
05-13-2012, 04:27 AM
It's not a rumour re the trailer. Someone posted some CCTV footage at the intersection with a white SUV towing at 3am or so in the morning on this forum on last Friday morning. There have been possibly 2 sightings of the trailers at GBC and his father's house. Why are people here now discounting? Its totally plausible or are some posters trying to shut down conversation??

crissyz
05-13-2012, 04:27 AM
I doubt they used a trailer.... they would have been in a hurry and not wanting to have the caution of having to tow a trailer, esp if they didn't know where they would dump the body.... if they did drive thru the scout grounds, imagine how much more difficult it would be getting the trailer down there? Not to mention obvious....

Ixnaye
05-13-2012, 04:28 AM
His business will be massively affected too I would imagine, even if he's not convicted- reputation will be tarnished forever... I've often wondered how suspects pay their legal costs, especially when they're convicted and locked up!!!

I think their business is now well and truly finished. I don't think there would be any chance that it will survive this, even if he or anyone else in his family is not found to be responsible for Allison's murder the way the family has behaved and conducted themselves throughout this whole ordeal is so strange/disturbing I doubt that anyone would ever want them selling or managing their property again.

Kimster
05-13-2012, 04:29 AM
Police said they were unlikely to make an arrest until they had the results of Mrs Baden-Clay’s autopsy and toxilogy tests.

The results are due some time this week with the usual turnaround for the tests two weeks.

Read more: http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/queensland/badenclay-tests-may-lead-to-killers-arrest-20120513-1ykec.html#ixzz1ujimov3Q

Seems to me there was blood evidence. What other tests would take two weeks?

Completelyconfused
05-13-2012, 04:29 AM
There are NO Parental rights in Australia, there are only children s rights, and if the above was the case, then the Parents or family could make application to Family Court "in the best interests of the children". Would have strong case if BC s involved. However in saying that, kids, even at that age, would be forming their own opinions, and feature very little in media releases regarding their mental state of mind, where is there help now, not in a few years at high school, sorry but that sounds so ridiculous.

I'm not sure what of my comment sounded so ridiculous to you. I'm sorry if I got the term incorrect re parental right however I work in this area and parents have a lot of rights and it is incredibly difficult to change those even when a parent is in custody - hence why children fester in foster care for so long unable to be adopted as their parents drift in and out of their lives. I wasn't saying a sympathetic judge wouldn't agree to allow access from both families only that it might be tough. Also worse case is that GBC isn't guilty and maintains custody of the girls and cuts off contact with Allison's family altogether as he feels they didn't support him.

Also there are counsellors at the school and there have been sessions run for parents and teachers in how to support the girls and other students through this. They ARE getting help now to deal with it.

The trust fund was suggested to the Dickies as a way to remember their daughter. Often people buy flowers and then those die and wither. They suggested that instead people donate money for the girls. People have donated to flood victims, bushfire appeals, other cases where children have lost parents etc. No one is holding a gun to anyone's head to donate. Does it affect you if they get a little money? No not really. The Dickies have started it in their daughters memory therefore they will control it!!

I don't know if he is guilty or not - I really hope he isn't for the sake of the girls. Some of the out there theories are a bit off though. I think we have to be a bit careful about pointing fingers when in fact we know nothing. Does he look suss - absolutely but as for the rest of it the media clips and photos of his family are not the whole story - they are edited moments designed to cause chatter. IMO!!

Southern Rain
05-13-2012, 04:30 AM
You put a body in a car, chance of threads from clothes found unless wrapped.

I am with the trailer theory whether some of you like it or not. Police have not ruled it in or out.

plentyofnous
05-13-2012, 04:30 AM
I think their business is now well and truly finished. I don't think there would be any chance that it will survive this, even if he or anyone else in his family is not found to be responsible for Allison's murder or anyone in the family the way the family has behaved and conducted themselves throughout this whole ordeal is so disturbing I doubt that anyone would ever want them selling or managing their property again.

BC Car Sales next

Kimster
05-13-2012, 04:31 AM
The rules of this forum are specific about naming persons not associated with the case. If it has been named in main stream media then we are free to post. And this forum is just another avenue that people will talk these days - yes its uncomfortable for the people involved- but I bet you are unhappy with the written media coverage and go and complain about twitter as well while your at it !!! Social media is always getting a bad wrap - gotta deal with it mate! The world has embraced social media so to be so naive to think that you can stop people bouncing ideas off each other as this forum is set up specifically for is ludicrous.

Sensitivity for livelihoods - well don't read it. If you can't control it chances are you shouldn't be worrying about it! And nobody here wants anything less than the perpertrator put behind bars. So if you think you can do that by antogonising posters here- then you are entitled to your opinion as well.

This is a very good statement and I couldn't put it better myself. Now let's put this conversation behind us and move forward with discussion of the crime. :tyou:

Southern Rain
05-13-2012, 04:32 AM
I doubt they used a trailer.... they would have been in a hurry and not wanting to have the caution of having to tow a trailer, esp if they didn't know where they would dump the body.... if they did drive thru the scout grounds, imagine how much more difficult it would be getting the trailer down there? Not to mention obvious....

1, Well if you see the picture of the GBC C21 Prado - what stands out at the back of the car?

2, Having previously been involved in scouting and going off to scout camps, trailers were used to take in tents, patrol, unit cooking and camping equipment. Not a problem towing a trailer with a 4WD like a Prado.

itsthevibe
05-13-2012, 04:34 AM
I wasn t being disrespectful, just stating the obvious, I really think that if they had evidence, they would arrest perp, I don t know of any murderer with enough evidence to charge them running around anywhere. I have enjoyed your posts though and your views, just think there is a lot of skeletons in the closet to come out yet as a lot does nt make any sense to me.

They are trying to make sure everything is watertight, and waiting for the toxicology reports. When they've got that they'll make an arrest.

They know they are going to be dealing with a hotshot Barrister with a reputation for getting horrific killers off, so they don't want to stuff this up, they've got one shot to arrest him for murder.

BCD
05-13-2012, 04:34 AM
Oh, puh-lease not the trailer thing again - have you been reading for the past 7 threads and 2 weeks? There has been no posting of a trailer evidence - apart from one being in their back yard 2 years ago on Google Earth. I mean, really, put the body in the trailer and let's go Dad....Again, will EAT MY HAT, if they did that. They're way too cunning for that overt public display.

plentyofnous
05-13-2012, 04:38 AM
I'm not sure what of my comment sounded so ridiculous to you. I'm sorry if I got the term incorrect re parental right however I work in this area and parents have a lot of rights and it is incredibly difficult to change those even when a parent is in custody - hence why children fester in foster care for so long unable to be adopted as their parents drift in and out of their lives. I wasn't saying a sympathetic judge wouldn't agree to allow access from both families only that it might be tough. Also worse case is that GBC isn't guilty and maintains custody of the girls and cuts off contact with Allison's family altogether as he feels they didn't support him.

Also there are counsellors at the school and there have been sessions run for parents and teachers in how to support the girls and other students through this. They ARE getting help now to deal with it.

The trust fund was suggested to the Dickies as a way to remember their daughter. Often people buy flowers and then those die and wither. They suggested that instead people donate money for the girls. People have donated to flood victims, bushfire appeals, other cases where children have lost parents etc. No one is holding a gun to anyone's head to donate. Does it affect you if they get a little money? No not really. The Dickies have started it in their daughters memory therefore they will control it!!

I don't know if he is guilty or not - I really hope he isn't for the sake of the girls. Some of the out there theories are a bit off though. I think we have to be a bit careful about pointing fingers when in fact we know nothing. Does he look suss - absolutely but as for the rest of it the media clips and photos of his family are not the whole story - they are edited moments designed to cause chatter. IMO!!

Under the Australian family law Act Parents have no " rights " it is the children who have rights , the maternal grandparents could apply for access or " care and control ". I hope the kids are receiving help, just don t agree with them attending school so soon after this horrific event, I know some people will say normal activity is good activity but sideways glances and whispers can t be controlled 100 % I believe very damaging

BCD
05-13-2012, 04:40 AM
Oh and I am with Kimster. If I was (awfully) one of the people who are in the middle of this. I wouldn't be reading this. Friends of friends etc. I have NEVER gone into any forum like this. EVER. But I have found the people here (99%) thoughtful, respectful, insightful and never ghoulish or nasty. I can't say why I or a lot of people are so interested in this case - I'm still working it out/all through myself - but it has been a good, communicative and supportive forum. And I think the people who run this forum (in the un-regulated world of the web) have done a FANTASTIC job of keeping it respectful, helpful and about helping find out how this might have happened so someone/somewhere is held culpable for this crime. I'm not saying we're going to solve it here - but it helps to 'talk'/share with people who are interested, intelligent, sensitive and ultimately care enough to spend a lot of time on this site! (Hello, it's Mother's Day - and my 2 kids are in here playing Barbies..while I type..before it's time for Bath & Bed.) XX

Neuromancer
05-13-2012, 04:40 AM
If you are interested in a taste of the Baden-Clay family, follow the link; it is the order of service for GBC's grandfather. Three-quarters of the way down the page are the memories Nigel Clay has of his father. It illustrates their place in society and why, perhaps, they may mistakenly consider themselves above the law (and also why he has animal skulls proudly displayed outside his house).

http://www.spanglefish.com/gervasclay/index.asp?pageid=158939

Thanks for the link!

The elitism is expected, considering both the family background and the colonial experience.

While I don't enjoy the animal skulls, they make sense when seen as a reminder of a much happier time in Africa, just as a cultural artifact. I don't think they're sinister in themselves, but more a sign of living a bit in the past, and proudly hanging on to it. A time of abundance, the freedom and privilege that comes with being at the top of the social order, and of having hot and cold running servants.

Neuromancer
05-13-2012, 04:46 AM
So what you are saying is that you don't know. Why would not a trailer be used? How can you discount that? It seems you know only what you have read in the press.

Yes - and that we're only meant to be discussing things that can be verified by media and other available reference sources, and our analysis of same.

Why would you want to talk about a trailer? What difference would it make? what's the point?

Karo
05-13-2012, 04:51 AM
I don't think it will affect the business in the long term, anyone selling or buying a property is really only interested in results, not the personal lives of the agent.

indogwetrust
05-13-2012, 04:51 AM
They are trying to make sure everything is watertight, and waiting for the toxicology reports. When they've got that they'll make an arrest.

They know they are going to be dealing with a hotshot Barrister with a reputation for getting horrific killers off, so they don't want to stuff this up, they've got one shot to arrest him for murder.

I couldn't agree more. For example drink drivers - there are a number of instances where people have been caught for drink driving, have an astronomical blood alcohol reading but due to a technicality, have gotten off because the police did not follow procedure to the 'T'. The barristers jump on any departure from proper procedure.

See the PPRA (Police Powers and Responsibilities Act) and am sure they are governed by other legislation regarding evidence gathering etc.

The police have come so far, they are up against a formidable barrister who will be looking for any hint of the police stuffing up.

itsthevibe
05-13-2012, 04:51 AM
I totally get that noone would have been thinking clearly at the time if this is true - but I can't understand why on earth Bwana would wait in that bus shelter in the most public place in Kenmore? They live in Durness St, which is kind of on the way to the roundabout from the BC residence - why on earth wouldn't GBC have just dropped in there and collected him? Why sit at the bus shelter for all to see? Not sure if I'm flying with this one.

Yes, i'm not 100% convinced on this either. Unless it was purely to do with being in a panic and trying to do it very quickly. So GBC rings Daddy and tells him what happened and suggests he says she went missing on a walk - or he and Daddy cook this up together. They then turn to getting rid of the body, Daddy says pick me up and I'll help you, they name the spot, Daddy says for gods sake hurry, I'll see you at the roundabout. Maybe he goes out to the roundabout to actually explain why he's leaving the house, maybe initially he doesnt tell wifey what he is doing exactly, just says "I'm going out to get a late night snack from the servo". This gives him time to think, he parks in the Kenmore Village carpark, Gerard still isnt there, so to save time he goes out to the bus stop. so Gerard can just whizz by and pick him up quickly. Still not sure about this.

The other option is that NBC might not have been the guy at the bus stop, maybe the out of place activity at the roundabout was just the two of them parking there and getting out to dispose of the mobile phone and other items in bins or something.

Not sure what happened but i do think it makes sense that if there is an accomplice it is NBC and not the woman mentioned, for the reasons others have said.

Strangeworld
05-13-2012, 04:52 AM
It's not a rumour re the trailer. Someone posted some CCTV footage at the intersection with a white SUV towing at 3am or so in the morning on this forum on last Friday morning. There have been possibly 2 sightings of the trailers at GBC and his father's house. Why are people here now discounting? Its totally plausible or are some posters trying to shut down conversation??

That was a random screen shot of a vehicle towing a trailer NOT on the night Allison disappeared. The only thing relating it to the case was that it was posted on here.

plentyofnous
05-13-2012, 04:53 AM
I don't think it will affect the business in the long term, anyone selling or buying a property is really only interested in results, not the personal lives of the agent.

I think his Business is 100 % finished regardless of the outcome, good for his competitors i guess

Neuromancer
05-13-2012, 04:53 AM
It's not a rumour re the trailer. Someone posted some CCTV footage at the intersection with a white SUV towing at 3am or so in the morning on this forum on last Friday morning. There have been possibly 2 sightings of the trailers at GBC and his father's house. Why are people here now discounting? Its totally plausible or are some posters trying to shut down conversation??

That was nothing to do with the investigation - it was just a screenshot taken on the night police were questioning people at the roundabout. Was just a random car driving past. I was here when the poster was trying to work out how to upload it.

Why on earth would you want to use a trailer when you have two big SUVs? I could transport a body in my Mirage! :)

tessawa
05-13-2012, 04:54 AM
Yes but these armchair sleuths should not be mentioning names of people who have not been mentioned by the Police or the media otherwise where does it end and we are talking about people's lives here for Christ sakes. Why should someone or other parties who had nothing to do with this henious act come 'out punching' or justifying themselves ? what a silly remark to say that shutting up and hiding is doing them no favours!! These women that keep being named on this forum or mentioned regularly owe nothing at this stage or may never owe anything to this case whasoever.

show some sensitivity about these people's lives and livliehoods!

Its a shame that no sensitivity was shown in the disposal of abc's body.

itsthevibe
05-13-2012, 04:58 AM
Those taxidermed animals heads at the BWANA's home deeply disturb me. I keep telling myself it is not rational to be so repulsed, but I really think they send a horrible message. I have never seen anything like it, and I haven't led a sheltered life.

Yes, especially as they are in such pride of place in the front entry where you can even see them when you approach the house. Obviously placed there to show off to as many people as possible.

Doidy
05-13-2012, 05:00 AM
Unfortunately I agree that the headline of today's Sunday Mail is merely an attempt to rattle the cage of the culprit/s and keep the pressure on them. If they had enough evidence they would have arrested someone not just be talking about doing it. Fingers crossed they will be able to put all the pieces together soon and have an air tight case.

Personally I think Mr Baden-Clay Senior might be involved in this. A friend of mine used to work with him when he was in the insurance game and he can't understand why NGC and EBC would have been working in GBC's business at their age in life. My friend is the same age as them and he has been long retired and living the good life and he thought the Baden-Clays would have long been doing so too. Especially since NBC used to act as though he was somebody even way back then. My friend thinks that the only reason that they would have been working in the real estate business is because they had financially backed it so it was in their own best interests to be in there and working.

Now if the marriage was on the rocks and say ABC had decided to actually end the marriage and get a divorce then they would have to divide up assets etc and that would have no doubt jeopardised an already struggling business.

Maybe NBC knew ABC was home alone and the kids were at a sleepover so he went to speak with her about the divorce prospect, hoping to change her mind. ABC fed up with her cheating husband and sick of her in laws interference and domineering ways stands up for herself and an argument ensues.......NBC loses his temper and.......

Just throwing it out there.

I had actually wondered the same thing

indogwetrust
05-13-2012, 05:00 AM
Yes, especially as they are in such pride of place in the front entry where you can even see them when you approach the house. Obviously placed there to show off to as many people as possible.

I don't see them as aesthetic, they're a statement, similar to the 'BWANA' n/plate.

Southern Rain
05-13-2012, 05:03 AM
http://video.goldcoast.com.au/2230232878/Scout-grounds-search



GOOGLE MAPS - BROOKFIELD ROAD TO TYAMOLUM SCOUT CAMP

DRIVE TIME and DISTANCE: 20 MINS, 16.3KM

Driving directions to 31 Bunya St, Mt Crosby QLD 4306

Brookfield Rd
Brookfield QLD 4069

1. Head south-east on Brookfield Rd towards Deerhurst Rd


3.3 km
2. At the roundabout, take the 2nd exit onto Moggill Rd/State Route 33


400 m
3. Turn right to stay on Moggill Rd/State Route 33


6.6 km
4. Turn right onto State Route 37


5.7 km
5. Turn right onto Bunya St

Destination will be on the right



350 m

31 Bunya St
Mt Crosby QLD 4306

Southern Rain
05-13-2012, 05:08 AM
Does anyone think they labs were able to get samples of any skin left under the nails of the deceased (assuming there was a struggle and ABC say scratched the perpetrator(s)) and do a match with some of the DNA taken from any suspect?

PolyDot
05-13-2012, 05:10 AM
I agree Greg and I think EBC is fully aware of everything that happened that night too. I think that is what was behind that bizarre kissing scene. That was her way of saying that she was standing by her man so to speak.

Did you see the pictures of the Senior Baden-Clays at the funeral. Just looks of contempt on their faces.


doesnt look like contempt to me - bit hard to draw conclusions from random photo ,,

plentyofnous
05-13-2012, 05:10 AM
Does anyone think they labs were able to get samples of any skin left under the nails of the deceased (assuming there was a struggle and ABC say scratched the perpetrator(s)) and do a match with some of the DNA taken from any suspect?

that would only prove they had a fight

Cccclllaareb
05-13-2012, 05:11 AM
That was nothing to do with the investigation - it was just a screenshot taken on the night police were questioning people at the roundabout. Was just a random car driving past. I was here when the poster was trying to work out how to upload it.

Why on earth would you want to use a trailer when you have two big SUVs? I could transport a body in my Mirage! :)

LOL!!! I was just about to say the same thing about my Getz :-p I have also moved a fridge in a barina :-D

Inanna
05-13-2012, 05:15 AM
It's not a rumour re the trailer. Someone posted some CCTV footage at the intersection with a white SUV towing at 3am or so in the morning on this forum on last Friday morning. There have been possibly 2 sightings of the trailers at GBC and his father's house. Why are people here now discounting? Its totally plausible or are some posters trying to shut down conversation??

Southern Rain yes someone posted footage but I think that footage was of the roundabout and cars travelling through said roundabout. Because of this people latched onto the trailer and decided that the body was travelling around in a trailer.

pudwink
05-13-2012, 05:17 AM
Hi everyone,

first time poster here. I've been following this case since the beginning. Like many of you, somewhat baffled as to why this particular case has made such an impression, to the point of almost becoming slightly obsessive (only slightly). What an amazing woman ABC was. So talented, and by all accounts, a beautiful mum. Right from the word go I had a feeling that she 'knew' the person who ended her life. Accident or premeditated, who knows. But def more than one person involved. I share the opinion that blood is thicker than water-more than likely Main perp had help from family member in covering up crime. I'm praying that the police can get all the evidence they need to seal this.Sooner would be great-but no matter how long it takes...

Inanna
05-13-2012, 05:18 AM
Police said they were unlikely to make an arrest until they had the results of Mrs Baden-Clay’s autopsy and toxilogy tests.

The results are due some time this week with the usual turnaround for the tests two weeks.

Read more: http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/queensland/badenclay-tests-may-lead-to-killers-arrest-20120513-1ykec.html#ixzz1ujimov3Q

Seems to me there was blood evidence. What other tests would take two weeks?

DNA this is what takes time

willough
05-13-2012, 05:18 AM
I don't see them as aesthetic, they're a statement, similar to the 'BWANA' n/plate.

Im disgusted by them (the dead animals...and possibly the BCs)......But, I know, i'm from a different world to them.

With that said....I look at the taxidermist crap, the BWANA crap....and just laugh. I think NBC thinks he is Mufasa from the Lion King.

He thinks he is King of the Pride.....Like he probably did back in his homeland.

possumheart
05-13-2012, 05:19 AM
We are talking about 30 detectives, a very competent forensic pathologist who will want to be peer reviewed and confident in his findings, and MA all of whom are going to face this SC in some shape or form. We shouldn't put any pressure on to want answers yet

Hawkins
05-13-2012, 05:19 AM
As to how people can afford expensive legal representation. The solicitor would require that the client place an initial sum of money into his trust account, and monthly invoices will be drawn against this. The barrister will also require this. The barrister is paid by the solicitor, not directly by the client. In many cases the client will not have the cash needed and so will mortgage a property that they own to cover it. The solicitor may then be the mortgage holder or it may be done through a bank. If the client is subsequently acquited then the fees paid for their defence are not recoverable from the State. People (and their relatives/friends) quite often lose their homes after successfully defending criminal charges. Legal aid is very difficult to obtain due to the relevant means tests. If you are going to mortgage your home, or ask your relatives to, in order to defend yourself then you might as well use the money to get the best you can afford, since the money will not be recouped.

As to lawyers dealing with clients who make admissions or confessions but who want to plead not guilty. The lawyer must inform the client that the lawyer is unable to say anything in court which is inconsistent with what the client has said. They cannot, for instance, assert that the client was not present at the time of the offence, suggest to eye-witnesses that they are mistaken or suggest to the jury some other version of events other than what the client has told them. They can only put the Crown to proof and suggest to the jury that the Crown has not met this evidentiary burden. That is sometimes effective where the Crown case is largely circumstantial. If the client insists on giving oral evidence in court then the lawyer cannot allow the client to say anything under oath which is inconsistent with the confession made. If the client does this, regardless, then the lawyer must withdraw from the matter, without telling the court why. The judge will of course realise what is going on.

Barristers do not generally have the option of refusing, or withdrawing from, a case because they dislike or disapprove of a client. The cab rank rule requires them to accept a brief where the matter is within their expertise and they have the time. Criticising barristers for complying with their ethical responsibilities is pointless. Outside many court buildings you will see a statue of a lady with a blindfold holding scales. Themis represents justice being blind. Meaning that cases are decided on the evidence, not on personal feelings, hunches, biases or community outrage. If a prosecution fails it is either because the accused was indeed innocent, or the evidence was insufficient to establish guilt beyond reasonable doubt, or the prosecution was incompetent. The idea of some clever barrister getting a person off is a myth. There are no secret arguments or rules to find. Witnesses may not be tricked. But defective evidence and insufficient procedural work can and should be identified by a competent lawyer.

SKMA
05-13-2012, 05:20 AM
I don't see them as aesthetic, they're a statement, similar to the 'BWANA' n/plate.

They're saying "Ask me about my past life in Rhodesia, back when I was somebody, back when I was a big wheel. My father taught me to shoot. He was an Oxford man, you know." etc, etc. Cue self-aggrandisment etc.

Or they could simply be kept as reminders of a much-enjoyed boyhood spent in circles where shooting animals was a common past time and something to which many young boys aspired. Instead of being excited to get a drivers licence, I suspect being allowed to go hunting with the men was the big thriill of young lives.

I see it as horses for courses. I don't think it goes to character, just culture.

Neuromancer
05-13-2012, 05:21 AM
Its a shame that no sensitivity was shown in the disposal of abc's body.

Yes - I think the treatment of Allison's body tells us a lot, about both the perp's attitude towards Allison, and his ability to consider how her daughters and parents would remember that for the rest of their lives.

ie (1) utter disregard and distain (2) none

Even if you could argue accidental death by misadventure, the callous body treatment says "no way". And the person responsible has displayed their utter self-absorption, and lack of empathy and human decency.

Inanna
05-13-2012, 05:22 AM
You put a body in a car, chance of threads from clothes found unless wrapped.

I am with the trailer theory whether some of you like it or not. Police have not ruled it in or out.

Nobody has to like your theory - nor do they have to agree with it.

If you put a body in a trailer it's no more or less difficult for forensics than in a car.

The police have not ruled it in or out as I believe you will find that the body was transported in the white pajero. A trailer has never been suggested, investigated as the mode of transport I believe has been ascertained.

PolyDot
05-13-2012, 05:24 AM
You put a body in a car, chance of threads from clothes found unless wrapped.

I am with the trailer theory whether some of you like it or not. Police have not ruled it in or out.

yes, and you would expect to find clothes fibers and her DNA as she woudl ahve been in cars many times.. really a trailer seems unlikely- even in a panic you can work out ABC may have been in the cars many many times - whereas DNA clothes fibers etc in the trailer woudl be suspicious as i bet she didnt regualary sit/lie down in trailer..

Champagne4lulu
05-13-2012, 05:24 AM
As to how people can afford expensive legal representation. The solicitor would require that the client place an initial sum of money into his trust account, and monthly invoices will be drawn agains this. The barrister will also require this. The barrister is paid by the solicitor, not directly by the client. In many cases the client will not have the cash needed and so will mortgage a property that they own to cover it. The solicitor may then be the mortgage holder or it may be done through a bank. If the client is subsequently acquited then the fees paid for their defence are not recoverable from the State. People (and their relatives/friends) quite often lose their homes after successfully defending criminal charges. Legal aid is very difficult to obtain due to the relevant means tests. If you are going to mortgage your home, or ask your relatives to, in order to defend yourself then you might as well use the money to get the best you can afford, since the money will not be recouped.

As to lawyers dealing with clients who make admissions or confessions but who want to plead not guilty. The lawyer must inform the client that the lawyer is unable to say anything in court which is inconsistent with what the client has said. They cannot, for instance, assert that the client was not present at the time of the offence, suggest to eye-witnesses that they are mistaken or suggest to the jury some other version of events other than what the client has told them. They can only put the Crown to proof and suggest to the jury that the Crown has not met this evidentiary burden. That is sometimes effective where the Crown case is largely circumstantial. If the client insists on giving oral evidence in court then the lawyer cannot allow the client to say anything under oath which is inconsistent with the confession made. If the client does this, regardless, then the lawyer must withdraw from the matter, without telling the court why. The judge will of course realise what is going on.

Barristers do not generally have the option of refusing, or withdrawing from, a case because they dislike or disapprove of a client. The cab rank rule requires them to accept a brief where the matter is within their expertise and they have the time. Criticising barristers for complying with their ethical responsibilities is pointless. Outside many court buildings you will see a statue of a lady with a blindfold holding scales. Themis represents justice being blind. Meaning that cases are decided on the evidence, not on personal feelings, hunches, biases or community outrage.



Wow that really puts things in perspective. I didn't know anything about this. Thanks for clearing that up!

Inanna
05-13-2012, 05:26 AM
Oh, puh-lease not the trailer thing again - have you been reading for the past 7 threads and 2 weeks? There has been no posting of a trailer evidence - apart from one being in their back yard 2 years ago on Google Earth. I mean, really, put the body in the trailer and let's go Dad....Again, will EAT MY HAT, if they did that. They're way too cunning for that overt public display.

Yes: "hey pops can I swing by and grab your trailer"... NBC: But son it's 2am..."Yes, I just have to dispose of a body quietly and unobtrusively"...

Sorry it's just my over worked weekend poor humour... I can see the fervent imaginations running wild...

bellgirl
05-13-2012, 05:26 AM
Well a woman getting a 'love tap' DID go OUT like lightening from SKMAs' explanation...........OUT meaning stone dead when she hit the floor.

Had to be a hit so hard, like a car hitting her to cause that to go wrong and kill her.

Internal brain contusions from being ripped inside by the contra coup action (back and forward so fast) would instant haemorraging too.

If this was the case, do you think that she would have been bleeding either from where she was hit or from her nose, mouth etc. I'm sorry to be graphic - but fairly sure that you can handle it Berry. If she was bleeding, then there would have to be blood in the house, car, site of disposal ............ ?

CaseClosed
05-13-2012, 05:26 AM
Wonder if GBC learned his techniques from the marriage enhancement facilitator? I am having a hard time getting over that statement. If NBC is involved it brings a new meaning to 'enhancing' a marriage. JMHO

Marriage Facilitator: Beat your wife into submission, but be careful not to killer her!!!

indogwetrust
05-13-2012, 05:27 AM
They're saying "Ask me about my past life in Rhodesia, back when I was somebody, back when I was a big wheel. My father taught me to shoot. He was an Oxford man, you know." etc, etc. Cue self-aggrandisment etc.

Or they could simply be kept as reminders of a much-enjoyed boyhood spent in circles where shooting animals was a common past time and something to which many young boys aspired. Instead of being excited to get a drivers licence, I suspect being allowed to go hunting with the men was the big thriill of young lives.

I see it as horses for courses. I don't think it goes to character, just culture.

Yeah good point, but I don't think culture can be separated from character, it informs it to some extent. Perhaps they say a bit about both?

Either way, they have creeped me out from the outset and I read them negatively, although I get that depending where you come from, this may be a perfectly normal thing to do. But in the context of suburban Kenmore??? Am more with Willough on this one.

itsthevibe
05-13-2012, 05:28 AM
IF GBC is infact the murderer in this case - they wouldn't necessarily have arrested him yet. We cannot just go and arrest people because they are the most likely to have committed the crime! When a case cannot be proven due to lack of evidence in 75% of cases the suspect makes an error that aids in their arrest.
The final results have not come back from the autopsy - I suggest until that happens an arrest is unlikely.

This is all just conjecture that it is the husband - yes the spouse is the most likely to be the murderer in these cases. Therefore he is suspected. BUT lynching by public opinion is grossly unfair and is actually what we have fought for - a just JUSTICE system.

I am not sure what you are referring to as a public lynching but if you mean the conjecture and speculation on this forum, let me point out a few things.

In addition to the fact that this is a forum for exactly that, speculation, and it does have some very sound rules to go with that, having a look at the number of people on here might get things into perspective. At the moment we have roughly 50 members and 175 guests online. On any given day the average number of people online here would be no more than 200. During some periods its only about 50. Granted the guests might be changing, as a guess 50% different people and the rest the same people who visit but never join. Many of the visitors may only read a few pages if that. The members - well occasionally we get a new member but the majority have been here since the first couple of threads.

The number of voters in the State electorate of Moggill is around 31,000 and the number of voters in Queensland at the last State election is 2.75 million. This is only people over 18 years who have enrolled, the entire population is much more, including everyone under 18 and people who haven't yet become citizens. My point is the numbers who view and read all the posts on this forum would be no more than a few hundred, and the visitors in total might be no more than a thousand, and most of them will have only read a small amount.

Although this is a public site I really dont think it is featuring heavily in the overall opinion of the general public of the State of Queensland, almost all of whom have never heard of Websleuths. For those of us who are regulars it is a big part of our world, and for a small number of others a brief curiosity that they have no time for. Yes, I'm sure some of the people connected to the case also check it out, but the numbers speak for themselves.

I hope this allays the concerns some people have about such things as GBC getting a fair trial, and women named having their reputation ruined.

That said, I do understand why the women/co-workers etc might feel upset. I feel that comments about them have been minimised for some time, with now only initials or not even that being referenced when speaking about the case and the woman who has been interviewed numerous times.

Bayside
05-13-2012, 05:29 AM
Oh geez looks like losts of posts for me to read in bed tonight to catch up lol,

I hope everyone had a great Mothers day, my dear husband hasnt had a day off in 3weeks so we had a wonderful day together on the water. I was a bit selfish and left the kids behind lol, it was nice to be able to talk without constant interruptions lol.

I thought about Allisons little girls and hope they managed to do something special to help ease their pain. Maybe this weekend would hve been a good one to take them away... sigh.

MissPiggy
05-13-2012, 05:30 AM
This is my first ever post to this amazing site which has taken over my life - It is so interesting to see everybody's ideas of what has happened to this lovely lady. Who could do such a horrid thing???????

I have two thoughts that come to my mind


1. What sort of parent could cover up such a horrific murder for their son/daughter?????

2. If GBC and Mr. and Mrs. GBC know what has happened to ABC - what about GBC's sister???? do you think she knows the going on within her family?? She did seemed very destressed at her SIL funeral - it just makes me ponder does the whole family know??? and surely if they did they would be hiding facts from the police and could go to jail themselves. So would that mean that the whole family could up end up in Jail IF it is what it seems???

Sorry lots of questions

Love this site and I am now a fully pledge addict to this site.

Cheers to you all

Miss Piggy oink oink

truth_morph
05-13-2012, 05:31 AM
Oh, puh-lease not the trailer thing again

and, the necrophilia AND the local gossip AND the nuisance calls to Crimestoppers.

Honestly, about 15% of what has been discussed throughout the seven threads on this crime is true sleuthing. The remaining 85% has been useless information.

I've followed a few Australian crimes here at WS and for the first time ever, I'm hanging on to the words of MSM for updates/information/interest. There are far too many 'I know someone connected to *BC' trolls spamming these threads.

willough
05-13-2012, 05:33 AM
They're saying "Ask me about my past life in Rhodesia, back when I was somebody, back when I was a big wheel. My father taught me to shoot. He was an Oxford man, you know." etc, etc. Cue self-aggrandisment etc.

Or they could simply be kept as reminders of a much-enjoyed boyhood spent in circles where shooting animals was a common past time and something to which many young boys aspired. Instead of being excited to get a drivers licence, I suspect being allowed to go hunting with the men was the big thriill of young lives.

I see it as horses for courses. I don't think it goes to character, just culture.

I agree with that reasoning too. Though, I do think that if he had such pride in that culture, why not remain there in Zimbabwe. He obviously left because of the atypical Zimbabwe/South African reason, that they were worried for their childrens future in such a violent environment.

Being in Australia, over time, they would realize the dead animals hangings are probably a little inappropriate and that in Australia, we are not about boasting about our wild catches, but moreso into the protecting of animals.

My parents are French, they had to let go alot of what was their culture because it was politically incorrect in our country here. Just so you know, they eat horse over there.....My parents went to france in the 1990s and were fed horse steak..............they didnt know till afterwards........and were MORTIFIED and both vomited at the thought that they ate horse.

Tis verrrrrrry weird here in Australia to be hanging the dead animals up for all to see.......Very Weird.

plentyofnous
05-13-2012, 05:33 AM
I am not sure what you are referring to as a public lynching but if you mean the conjecture and speculation on this forum, let me point out a few things.

In addition to the fact that this is a forum for exactly that, speculation, and it does have some very sound rules to go with that, having a look at the number of people on here might get things into perspective. At the moment we have roughly 50 members and 175 guests online. On any given day the average number of people online here would be no more than 200. During some periods its only about 50. Granted the guests might be changing, as a guess 50% different people and the rest the same people who visit but never join. Many of the visitors may only read a few pages if that. The members - well occasionally we get a new member but the majority have been here since the first couple of threads.

The number of voters in the State electorate of Moggill is around 31,000 and the number of voters in Queensland at the last State election is 2.75 million. This is only people over 18 years who have enrolled, the entire population is much more, including everyone under 18 and people who haven't yet become citizens. My point is the numbers who view and read all the posts on this forum would be no more than a few hundred, and the visitors in total might be no more than a thousand, and most of them will have only read a small amount.

Although this is a public site I really dont think it is featuring heavily in the overall opinion of the general public of the State of Queensland, almost all of whom have never heard of Websleuths. For those of us who are regulars it is a big part of our world, and for a small number of others a brief curiosity that they have no time for. Yes, I'm sure some of the people connected to the case also check it out, but the numbers speak for themselves.

I hope this allays the concerns some people have about such things as GBC getting a fair trial, and women named having their reputation ruined.

That said, I do understand why the women/co-workers etc might feel upset. I feel that comments about them have been minimised for some time, with now only initials or not even that being referenced when speaking about the case and the woman who has been interviewed numerous times.

But it certainly goes a fair way into what people are thinking around this fair state

Neuromancer
05-13-2012, 05:35 AM
They're saying "Ask me about my past life in Rhodesia, back when I was somebody, back when I was a big wheel. My father taught me to shoot. He was an Oxford man, you know." etc, etc. Cue self-aggrandisment etc.

Or they could simply be kept as reminders of a much-enjoyed boyhood spent in circles where shooting animals was a common past time and something to which many young boys aspired. Instead of being excited to get a drivers licence, I suspect being allowed to go hunting with the men was the big thriill of young lives.

I see it as horses for courses. I don't think it goes to character, just culture.

Well put. Kinda what I was trying to get at but you said it better :)

CaseClosed
05-13-2012, 05:37 AM
Well a woman getting a 'love tap' DID go OUT like lightening from SKMAs' explanation...........OUT meaning stone dead when she hit the floor.

Had to be a hit so hard, like a car hitting her to cause that to go wrong and kill her.

Internal brain contusions from being ripped inside by the contra coup action (back and forward so fast) would instant haemorraging too.

Doesn't need to be a hard hit, it's just the way one falls and hits their head. A lady I knew fell at home, hit her head on the floor and died instantly.

itsthevibe
05-13-2012, 05:38 AM
Yes but these armchair sleuths should not be mentioning names of people who have not been mentioned by the Police or the media otherwise where does it end and we are talking about people's lives here for Christ sakes. Why should someone or other parties who had nothing to do with this henious act come 'out punching' or justifying themselves ? what a silly remark to say that shutting up and hiding is doing them no favours!! These women that keep being named on this forum or mentioned regularly owe nothing at this stage or may never owe anything to this case whasoever.

show some sensitivity about these people's lives and livliehoods!

I do agree with this and i think that not naming names is important, or even initials. Discussion aboout the women who has been interviewed by police is important to the case and our discussions here though. If I was in their position i would lay low and keep a low profile, as Sherrif said it would very distressing for them, and if they had known Allison even more so. If the person who has been interviewed by police had nothing to do with the murder in any way well I can understand her distress.

But if she has been the mistress of GBC well I dont have any sympathy, yes, compassion and understanding that she got involved with the wrong guy as many of us have at some stage in our lives, but if you get involved with a married man you have to accept you become part of that couples marriage problems and your actions could have contributed to why they were arguing. However, I acknowledge we dont have any proof there was a mistress.

Champagne4lulu
05-13-2012, 05:39 AM
Slight gear change. Wasn't it an amazing day here for mothers day in seq? Couldn't help but think a bit (quite a lot actually) about ABC, her girls, family and friends and wondered how they were doing today. I feel so sad for them and that they should have had a very different day today. I'm trying to keep an open mind in all this but I hope they catch whomever it was quickly with strong water tight evidence and they receive a suitably long Jail sentence. Happy mothers day to all the mums.

Keyboredom
05-13-2012, 05:39 AM
and, the necrophilia ...

I think everyone else has referred to that as the granny pash. It's not quite necrophilia, but not far off.

Hawkins
05-13-2012, 05:40 AM
it just makes me ponder does the whole family know??? and surely if they did they would be hiding facts from the police and could go to jail themselves. So would that mean that the whole family could up end up in Jail IF it is what it seems???


People are generally not under any obligation to report crimes or to forward to police any confessions they hear in relation to crimes. Neither are there any Good Samaritan laws in Queensland. Helping an offender to cover up an offence could, however, make the person helping complicit in the offence. Also do not be too quick to judge other people in a moral sense if they do not inform on relatives. In the case of murder it could put a person in an intolerably stressful situation to be torn in such a way. Homicides often destroy many more lives than those of the deceased and the killer.

Rational
05-13-2012, 05:45 AM
Like most I am just wishing something would happen in terms of an arrest put at the same time am mindful that the QPS will want to have every possible angle covered.
Just reading through the latest posts, in particular with regards to NBC, I was wondering if some of the theories are right (ie he was an accomplice) could this maybe be why the body was dumped in such an awful manner. I cannot remember who suggested early on in the threads that people who are close to those they murder or have feelings tend to cover up the body.mcould it be that NBC took over the car and dumped the body and left GBC to go back home to continue his frantic texting. On my phone bills it shows the location where I texted from.

Southern Rain
05-13-2012, 05:45 AM
We now have people on here discounting theory for the sake of imposing their own views on how this crime would have been carried out.

People should keep an open mind on all aspects whether they think they could use a mini minor to transport a billard table rather than a trailer. The point I made was that the initial photo of the GBC C21 (White Toyota Prado) by the MSM showed pointedly the silver tow ball, which stood out - perhaps to jog memories of the general public.

There are too many here just shutting down discussion or discounting theory to impute their own or views of others.

DNA and forensics will nail this person, IMHO. I also believe the police have put together or are in the process of putting together a very robust brief of evidence for the QLD DPP, in view of the broad facts and time lines believed to be known.

If there are any web sleuths interested in a good article on DNA, the following may be of interest. Have a good evening people and enjoy the rest of this mother's day, as it will have been particularly sad for three young children,

http://www.lexisnexis.com.au/aus/products/samples/documents/plp_3_9.pdf

MissPiggy
05-13-2012, 05:49 AM
People are generally not under any obligation to report crimes or to forward to police any confessions they hear in relation to crimes. Neither are there any Good Samaritan laws in Queensland. Helping an offender to cover up an offence could, however, make the person helping complicit in the offence. Also do not be too quick to judge other people in a moral sense if they do not inform on relatives. In the case of murder it could put a person in an intolerably stressful situation to be torn in such a way. Homicides often destroy many more lives than those of the deceased and the killer.

Absolutely you are correct it would be an intolerably stressful situation to be in and I would not like to think I was "judging" them in any terms. Just an awful situation to be in.

Oink Oink

HN man
05-13-2012, 05:53 AM
Trailer ... Hmmmm ?

Begs the question whether Tomkat or Brangelina were recently spotted in Brookefield as possible accomplices rather than Nigelaine.

Champagne4lulu
05-13-2012, 05:53 AM
Ok, so there's been a bit of discussion about GBC's barrister who seems to be... Well...pretty determined for lack of a better word. How do the prosecution "barristers" (if that's what they are called) in qld measure up? Are they sharp? Are they equally as aggressive? How successful do they tend to be? I realize we don't even have anyone charged yet so don't even know who will control this case but interested in the process in a general sense nonetheless. I hope they have a talented, aggressive pit bull that will bury the murderer.

spratsmum
05-13-2012, 05:55 AM
I think perhaps the cultural differences i.e. the display on the front of the GB home is an interesting point.

I was just pondering why if it was a "love tap" gone wrong, you wouldn't ring the police, tell them what happened. The punishment couldn't be has bad as it is for murder and disposing of a body. I then thought of the culture of SA regarding police, from what I have read police are seen as being untrustworthy, open to corruption and certainly not the type of relationship that most Australians have for the majority.

I wonder if the love tap theory is right, would BC snr have said, you can't trust the police son, we need to get rid of the body etc.

My other question is - what "evidence" would have needed to be got rid of in industrial bins, or any bins?

Rational
05-13-2012, 05:59 AM
Let's put the trailer to bed.....Including Tomkat and Brangelina... Allison's clothes fibres etc would have been all over the cars prior. Forensics would be interested in cars for blood and other post mortem clues.

Hawkins
05-13-2012, 05:59 AM
Ok, so there's been a bit of discussion about GBC's barrister who seems to be... Well...pretty determined for lack of a better word. How do the prosecution "barristers" (if that's what they are called) in qld measure up? Are they sharp? Are they equally as aggressive? How successful do they tend to be? I realize we don't even have anyone charged yet so don't even know who will control this case but interested in the process in a general sense nonetheless. I hope they have a talented, aggressive pit bull that will bury the murderer.

The best Crown prosecutors are a match for any members of the private bar practicing crime in Queensland. Some complex matters are briefed out to private barristers and in a matter like this it would go to one of a handful of the best. No advantage to Mr Baden Clay if there is a trial in terms of quality of lawyers. The advantages are all to the prosecution who have far greater resources.

itsthevibe
05-13-2012, 06:00 AM
Yes - and that we're only meant to be discussing things that can be verified by media and other available reference sources, and our analysis of same.

Why would you want to talk about a trailer? What difference would it make? what's the point?

Untrue - we are allowed to speculate. Some people have speculated about a trailer which is perfectly OK. I personally am unsure about a trailer but I dont see anything wrong with others discussing it as it does no harm, and still could have credence.

truth_morph
05-13-2012, 06:00 AM
I think everyone else has referred to that as the granny pash. It's not quite necrophilia, but not far off.

Um, then you're having micro naps between posts. There was previous discussion on this subject. That's the pivotal moment that I realised whatever is claimed here, particularly by the supposed 'locals', I take zero notice of. There's been nothing of substance since about the second thread.

Is there high unemployment in QLD or something? Some people have far too much time on their hands.:floorlaugh:

Hawkins
05-13-2012, 06:04 AM
I hope they have a talented, aggressive pit bull that will bury the murderer.

It is also premature to talk of burying a murderer. The death may well have been the result of a manslaughter. The distinction is not a technical one. The best criminal advocates are rarely those who are aggressive. Witnesses generally do not respond well to aggressiona and neither do juries. The best advocates are thoughtful, analytical and thorough.

itsthevibe
05-13-2012, 06:06 AM
Does anyone think they labs were able to get samples of any skin left under the nails of the deceased (assuming there was a struggle and ABC say scratched the perpetrator(s)) and do a match with some of the DNA taken from any suspect?

Someone who seemed to have forensic knowledge did post on one of the earlier threads after the body had been found - and they raised this issue and said that it is possible that even samples under the nails could be gone. :( Not definitely but very possibly I think was the implication. I remember being quite downcast about this at the time - as it would help so much.

Rational
05-13-2012, 06:07 AM
I think everyone else has referred to that as the granny pash. It's not quite necrophilia, but not far off.


Thanks Keyboredom of once again reminding us all of that moment ( Not!!) but I believe this sense of humour has kept us all going from time to time even if not appreciated by all! It is by me.

itsthevibe
05-13-2012, 06:08 AM
that would only prove they had a fight

Yes, but it could still be helpful in conjunction with other evidence.

Limaes
05-13-2012, 06:09 AM
I wish we could just have crappy nothing islands in the middle of nowhere to send these people...



Lol they did. Called Australia.



Gold!! If we had a pool room this would be going straight there :clap:

indogwetrust
05-13-2012, 06:09 AM
Um, then you're having micro naps between posts. There was previous discussion on this subject. That's the pivotal moment that I realised whatever is claimed here, particularly by the supposed 'locals', I take zero notice of. There's been nothing of substance since about the second thread.

Is there high unemployment in QLD or something? Some people have far too much time on their hands.:floorlaugh:

Am curious truth morph - how do you tell the difference between a supposed local and a local? Is it just a hunch, do you meditate on the words ... what?

Am just wondering if you use a similar method in determining what is and isn't of substance?

There's been some great info posted lately, shame you've not seen it.

plentyofnous
05-13-2012, 06:10 AM
Yes, but it could still be helpful in conjunction with other evidence.

thats what I was alluding to

Inanna
05-13-2012, 06:11 AM
Of course we can speculate. I have just been noticing though that speculation has occurred over "facts" that are not at all fact. Such as the trailer being seen on CCV.

It is easy to blame the husband. The public has run with that (understandably). The public has little facts - this is not because there isn't evidence but because the public don't need it. When the forensics come in there will be much more clarity - DNA matching of fibres and fluids is important in this case.

Neuromancer
05-13-2012, 06:11 AM
Trailer ... Hmmmm ?

Begs the question whether Tomkat or Brangelina were recently spotted in Brookefield as possible accomplices rather than Nigelaine.

It was Suri!

SKMA
05-13-2012, 06:13 AM
My other question is - what "evidence" would have needed to be got rid of in industrial bins, or any bins?

Perhaps the blanket or sheet or whatever that might have been used to wrap the body in. Once the body had been dumped, they took it with them and needed a place to dispose of it. And anything else that had been in contact with the body.

kiwi50
05-13-2012, 06:14 AM
It appears we know a lot less than we thought, now we discover GBC hasn't even given the police a statement. No wonder the police were so suspicious, even more so if a lawyer was present. What if NBC was also there?

If GBC killed Alison I think he is more like to have rung his father, and asked him to come to the house not meet him at a roundabout, and doubt if he would have told his father by phone what the emergency actually was. it would certainly be easier to dispose of a body with two people.
If there was an accomplice I see NBC as a better option than your lover.

I can't see a trailer being used, when you could wrap a body and easily fit it in a 4WD. Would be a lot harder trying to find somewhere to dump a body, when you had to be able to drive a car with trailer into dumping place.

Was something actually SEEN at roundabout or was something FOUND?
Any thoughts on what this could be?

I can see the first solicitor saying to GBC, we won't need to hire a barrister
UNLESS Alison's body is found, well what do you know....
I guess GBC could have told first solicitor the truth, seeing he is no longer acting for him, I can't see that it would compromise him.

willough
05-13-2012, 06:17 AM
I don't dismiss the idea of the trailer. Though since the only part of the trailer we have actually seen, shows a GAWDY, BRIGHT yellow trailer, I highly doubt a trailer would have been used. That is the sort of color that anyone would notice in the midst of the night.....I just cant imagine the perpetrator wanting to be so obvious.

But again....Since we dont know....WHO KNOWS BAYBEE!!!!

Champagne4lulu
05-13-2012, 06:18 AM
The best Crown prosecutors are a match for any members of the private bar practicing crime in Queensland. Some complex matters are briefed out to private barristers and in a matter like this it would go to one of a handful of the best. No advantage to Mr Baden Clay if there is a trial in terms of quality of lawyers. The advantages are all to the prosecution who have far greater resources.

Well that's good to hear :)

God even the thought of one of those guys interrogating me for anything and i think I'd burst into tears. They are so intimidating and from what I've seen, pretty damn clever. as they should be. God help whomever has to take them on

Ixnaye
05-13-2012, 06:18 AM
There has been theories of Domestic Violence and "Love Taps" etc mentioned. Does anyone know if there is actually a history of DV in the house? Have the police ever responded to the house in the past due to reports of arguments or DV?

I grew up beside a man that would regularly beat the crap out of his wife and kids, his wife was never the one to call the police, it was everyone else in the street who called them, she would never press charges, they would take him away for the night to cool off and he would be back the next day.

So while there may have been no charges laid of anything like that I'm wondering if the police did have a record of attending previous incident/s at the house and if that is why the police responded so fast when Allison was reported as not returning from a morning walk.

The QPS Facebook site is constantly posting stories about missing people and they have not been seen for days/weeks but they don't respond to those like they responded to Allison being missing. There must have been a reason why they were so concerned for her wellbeing and reacted so swiftly and in numbers as they did.

itsthevibe
05-13-2012, 06:18 AM
As to how people can afford expensive legal representation. The solicitor would require that the client place an initial sum of money into his trust account, and monthly invoices will be drawn against this. The barrister will also require this. The barrister is paid by the solicitor, not directly by the client. In many cases the client will not have the cash needed and so will mortgage a property that they own to cover it. The solicitor may then be the mortgage holder or it may be done through a bank. If the client is subsequently acquited then the fees paid for their defence are not recoverable from the State. People (and their relatives/friends) quite often lose their homes after successfully defending criminal charges. Legal aid is very difficult to obtain due to the relevant means tests. If you are going to mortgage your home, or ask your relatives to, in order to defend yourself then you might as well use the money to get the best you can afford, since the money will not be recouped.

As to lawyers dealing with clients who make admissions or confessions but who want to plead not guilty. The lawyer must inform the client that the lawyer is unable to say anything in court which is inconsistent with what the client has said. They cannot, for instance, assert that the client was not present at the time of the offence, suggest to eye-witnesses that they are mistaken or suggest to the jury some other version of events other than what the client has told them. They can only put the Crown to proof and suggest to the jury that the Crown has not met this evidentiary burden. That is sometimes effective where the Crown case is largely circumstantial. If the client insists on giving oral evidence in court then the lawyer cannot allow the client to say anything under oath which is inconsistent with the confession made. If the client does this, regardless, then the lawyer must withdraw from the matter, without telling the court why. The judge will of course realise what is going on.

Barristers do not generally have the option of refusing, or withdrawing from, a case because they dislike or disapprove of a client. The cab rank rule requires them to accept a brief where the matter is within their expertise and they have the time. Criticising barristers for complying with their ethical responsibilities is pointless. Outside many court buildings you will see a statue of a lady with a blindfold holding scales. Themis represents justice being blind. Meaning that cases are decided on the evidence, not on personal feelings, hunches, biases or community outrage. If a prosecution fails it is either because the accused was indeed innocent, or the evidence was insufficient to establish guilt beyond reasonable doubt, or the prosecution was incompetent. The idea of some clever barrister getting a person off is a myth. There are no secret arguments or rules to find. Witnesses may not be tricked. But defective evidence and insufficient procedural work can and should be identified by a competent lawyer.

The idea of some clever barrister getting a person off is a myth.

Well no it's not - this doesnt fit in with your argument. The Barrister is clever as he is better at identifying and highlighting defective evidence and insufficient procedural work, cross-examining, and everything else within his/her scope of things.

plentyofnous
05-13-2012, 06:20 AM
It appears we know a lot less than we thought, now we discover GBC hasn't even given the police a statement. No wonder the police were so suspicious, even more so if a lawyer was present. What if NBC was also there?

If GBC killed Alison I think he is more like to have rung his father, and asked him to come to the house not meet him at a roundabout, and doubt if he would have told his father by phone what the emergency actually was. it would certainly be easier to dispose of a body with two people.
If there was an accomplice I see NBC as a better option than your lover.

I can't see a trailer being used, when you could wrap a body and easily fit it in a 4WD. Would be a lot harder trying to find somewhere to dump a body, when you had to be able to drive a car with trailer into dumping place.

Was something actually SEEN at roundabout or was something FOUND?
Any thoughts on what this could be?

I can see the first solicitor saying to GBC, we won't need to hire a barrister
UNLESS Alison's body is found, well what do you know....
I guess GBC could have told first solicitor the truth, seeing he is no longer acting for him, I can't see that it would compromise him.

Most competent Solicitors will not let you talk to them, rather they will ask you questions to prevent them finding out about admissions or evidence, there job is to defend you, they ll want to know what they need to know, not necessarily what you want to tell them, Solicitors of the caliber of these are very skilled in this area

plentyofnous
05-13-2012, 06:21 AM
Well that's good to hear :)

God even the thought of one of those guys interrogating me for anything and i think I'd burst into tears. They are so intimidating and from what I've seen, pretty damn clever. as they should be. God help whomever has to take them on

I know plenty who would disagree

coolcat
05-13-2012, 06:22 AM
:floorlaugh:I think everyone else has referred to that as the granny pash. It's not quite necrophilia, but not far off.

:floorlaugh:......rofl

pudwink
05-13-2012, 06:23 AM
IMO if it was a DV incident, then GBC freaked, big time. If his character were to lean toward the narcissistic, arrogant, aggressive side, then self-preservation would have been on his mind. "crap, what do I do now? hmmm, too scared to call police or ambo's" Maybe he called BCsenior. Maybe BCsenior is also narcissistic, arrogant, aggressive...how do we know GBC didn't want to turn himself in eventually but was talked into/coerced/convinced to do otherwise? Long shot I know, but who knows? I doubt it played out this way. But I don't doubt for a second, the ability of some people on this planet to put their own interests before others, no what what the cost or consequence. Esp if said people have a strong sense of 'entitlement', the attitude that "I deserve to keep living as I am, I was...(stressed, provoked, etc etc." rather than own up to what they have done. I believe the perp/s believed/hoped they could get away with it.

willough
05-13-2012, 06:23 AM
The idea of some clever barrister getting a person off is a myth.

Well no it's not - this doesnt fit in with your argument. The Barrister is clever as he is better at identifying and highlighting defective evidence and insufficient procedural work, cross-examining, and everything else within his/her scope of things.

I agree, through the simple thought that if that was the case, you wouldnt see clever barristers in the role of defence Attorney. There would simply be no money there..........and barristers (defence ones) must purely be in it for the money....so they must get the person off sometimes................ie Greg Domaszewicz

willough
05-13-2012, 06:24 AM
:floorlaugh:

:floorlaugh:......rofl

STOP IT....Laughing..........Im still mortified by it...:floorlaugh:

itsthevibe
05-13-2012, 06:24 AM
and, the necrophilia AND the local gossip AND the nuisance calls to Crimestoppers.

Honestly, about 15% of what has been discussed throughout the seven threads on this crime is true sleuthing. The remaining 85% has been useless information.

I've followed a few Australian crimes here at WS and for the first time ever, I'm hanging on to the words of MSM for updates/information/interest. There are far too many 'I know someone connected to *BC' trolls spamming these threads.

I understand how you feel but i think these comments are a bit insulting. the perecentage of 85% useless information is simply something you have plucked out of the air and i certainly dont think it is correct even thought there are things discussed that I personally might think are a waste of time on occasions. some of the people caliming to be connected to GBC or Allison maybe perfectly genuine people trying to help, and giving quite credible information, and calling them trolls is not appropriate.

Inanna
05-13-2012, 06:24 AM
You're right Kiwi. The public does not have much to go by.

CaseClosed
05-13-2012, 06:25 AM
You put a body in a car, chance of threads from clothes found unless wrapped.

I am with the trailer theory whether some of you like it or not. Police have not ruled it in or out.

So, if there was a trailer at Bwana's, why haven't we heard of it being confiscated for forensic examination? After all, the Media is staking their homes.

FYI, that photo of the trailer was just a test done by a poster to try 'cut and paste' of a photo here in the forum. Nothing more nothing less. It took a life of its own after that.

plentyofnous
05-13-2012, 06:26 AM
So, if there was a trailer at Bwana's, why haven't we heard of it being confiscated for forensic examination? After all, the Media is staking their homes.

FYI, that photo of the trailer was just a test done by a poster to try 'cut and paste' of a photo here in the forum. Nothing more nothing less. It took a life of its own after that.

Is the media still stalking their homes

SKMA
05-13-2012, 06:28 AM
IMO if it was a DV incident, then GBC freaked, big time. If his character were to lean toward the narcissistic, arrogant, aggressive side, then self-preservation would have been on his mind. "crap, what do I do now? hmmm, too scared to call police or ambo's" Maybe he called BCsenior. Maybe BCsenior is also narcissistic, arrogant, aggressive...how do we know GBC didn't want to turn himself in eventually but was talked into/coerced/convinced to do otherwise? Long shot I know, but who knows? I doubt it played out this way. But I don't doubt for a second, the ability of some people on this planet to put their own interests before others, no what what the cost or consequence. Esp if said people have a strong sense of 'entitlement', the attitude that "I deserve to keep living as I am, I was...(stressed, provoked, etc etc." rather than own up to what they have done. I believe the perp/s believed/hoped they could get away with it.

Plus there's the family name to think about and let's face it, it's a pretty heavy-duty family name and there are many branches around the world who would be pretty pissed off, to say the least, about this whole thing.

Liadan
05-13-2012, 06:32 AM
Don't forget the police spent AGES at EBC and NBC's home - if the trailer was there the police would have been all over it forensically. There is nothing much to hide in metal tray trailer put a big piece of sticky plastic over it and you pretty much get whatever fibre evidence has been in it.

Likely tho that the trailer had been bathed and scented so it would not have revealed too much to the police.

Susan12
05-13-2012, 06:35 AM
It would surprise me if the killer would stop on Mt Crosby road to dispose of the body because although a quiet area by some standards there is still the possibility of a car coming by at any time.

It'd also surprise me if the killer and/or accomplice used the roundabout as a meeting place because it is well lit and busy there, there are always cars traveling through even late at night. You would meet a bit away from the roundabout to safely stop. Unless that's what the police consider to be 'out of place'. Maybe there was some strange driving?

Re the theory of NBC as the accomplice, if that is true then I wonder why after meeting with police for quite a while more than once without lawyering up this female has now lawyered up. Seems to be something to that IMHO. I reckon you'd call your parents if you were in trouble but maybe not if there was someone else already present who could help. Has me wondering about what role in this the woman has played if any.

HN man
05-13-2012, 07:20 AM
Has this web site been down for the last hour? Just wondering if the problem was at my end?

Neuromancer
05-13-2012, 07:21 AM
2. If GBC and Mr. and Mrs. GBC know what has happened to ABC - what about GBC's sister???? do you think she knows the going on within her family?? She did seemed very destressed at her SIL funeral - it just makes me ponder does the whole family know??? and surely if they did they would be hiding facts from the police and could go to jail themselves. So would that mean that the whole family could up end up in Jail IF it is what it seems???



Welcome! :)

I was working on a post on this topic so it might as well go here.

Was just looking at this video which i hadn't seen before, from the day of the search of BC senior house (26 Apr), interviewing sister:
http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/queensland/house-searched-for-missing-mum-clues-20120425-1xk24.html

"Gerard loves Allision, he's desperate for her to be returned home"
(VO) Sister Olivia says he's helping police as much as possible. (!)
"She seemed normal, delightful.. Please, darling Al come home."

I'd be interested to see what people think about this footage, I found it made me very uncomfortable.

I'm disturbed by the "please come home" stuff. After 6 days missing, when the person was known to be reliable, last reported happy, (? just been to hairdresser) about to go to conference they were looking forward to, I would not be thinking they'd be anywhere watching TV and just hiding out, or in any position to come home. I'd be worried they were lost in the bush, had broken leg, heart attack, head injury, something that meant they were stuck or trapped, knocked unconscious, dying of thirst/starvation or maybe abducted. Why would anyone say "please come home" rather than beg public for help?

willough
05-13-2012, 07:21 AM
Was it just me, or did the site have problems then? My computer is rather slow at the moment, as I have gone way over my internet allowance....But WooooooW, it seemed ot be right offline. :(

clem1970
05-13-2012, 07:21 AM
Has this web site been down for the last hour? Just wondering if the problem was at my end?

I think so. I lost it too.

SKMA
05-13-2012, 07:22 AM
There has been theories of Domestic Violence and "Love Taps" etc mentioned. Does anyone know if there is actually a history of DV in the house? Have the police ever responded to the house in the past due to reports of arguments or DV?

I grew up beside a man that would regularly beat the crap out of his wife and kids, his wife was never the one to call the police, it was everyone else in the street who called them, she would never press charges, they would take him away for the night to cool off and he would be back the next day.

So while there may have been no charges laid of anything like that I'm wondering if the police did have a record of attending previous incident/s at the house and if that is why the police responded so fast when Allison was reported as not returning from a morning walk.

My sources say 2 previous dv orders have been taken out against GBC.

itsthevibe
05-13-2012, 07:22 AM
Has this web site been down for the last hour? Just wondering if the problem was at my end?

Look at the times of postings - yes I've had the same problem. Unfortunately I had just written a thoughtful post which took me a while and I lost the site when i clicked to post it :(

willough
05-13-2012, 07:23 AM
Has this web site been down for the last hour? Just wondering if the problem was at my end?

I think so too....I dont think it's just you mate....Ive had the same problem :)

Oz Jen
05-13-2012, 07:23 AM
Gold!! If we had a pool room this would be going straight there :clap:
BEST comment yet!:floorlaugh:

possumheart
05-13-2012, 07:23 AM
There has been theories of Domestic Violence and "Love Taps" etc mentioned. Does anyone know if there is actually a history of DV in the house?

yes. Reliable heresy early on.

Neuromancer
05-13-2012, 07:24 AM
Here's a link to a blog site I just found on Aussie Criminals - discourse analysis of the GBC interview video.

http://tiny.cc/taw8dw

Some great points.

EDIT: replaced with shortened link

willough
05-13-2012, 07:24 AM
My sources say 2 previous dv orders have been taken out against GBC.

This makes me angry on so many levels, if this is true.

Barram5
05-13-2012, 07:25 AM
I think so. I lost it too.

Me to :banghead:

HN man
05-13-2012, 07:27 AM
Here's a link I just found on Aussie Criminals - discourse analysis of the GBC interview video.

http://***************************.au/2012/05/husband-of-missing-wife-breaks-silence.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Feed:+StatementAnalysis+%28Statement+ Analysis%29

Some great points.

The site to which you refer above I find unbelievably slow and it freezes my ipad every time I go there ... I've given up on it ... Anyone else have this problem?
The owner of the site wants us to contribute for his beer money .... I told him I would when he fixes his site !

willough
05-13-2012, 07:29 AM
The site to which you refer above I find unbelievably slow and it freezes my ipad every time I go there ... I've given up on it ... Anyone else have this problem?

Yep....and i'm not sure why, but when I go there, I can only see posts up to the 5th May.....Anything more recent isn't there for me.

possumheart
05-13-2012, 07:30 AM
The site to which you refer above I find unbelievably slow and it freezes my ipad every time I go there ... I've given up on it ... Anyone else have this problem?

On iPhone it is hopeless as it is on iMac
Very unstable

MissPiggy
05-13-2012, 07:30 AM
I would say they have deleted the link because I cannot find it. That is why the site was down I would say.

clem1970
05-13-2012, 07:31 AM
The site to which you refer above I find unbelievably slow and it freezes my ipad every time I go there ... I've given up on it ... Anyone else have this problem?
The owner of the site wants us to contribute for his beer money .... I told him I would when he fixes his site !

I have the same problem when using my ipad. Works better on laptop but still slow.

truth_morph
05-13-2012, 07:32 AM
Best you toddle off then, don't let us keep you

Oh, c'mon. Let's play the 'I'm the tough new forum member with a quirky sense of fun' (hoping for stacks of 'thanks'). Seriously, there are an unfortunate handful of you that have really dumbed down this thread. I've noticed a lot of regular Aus posters steering clear.

Heck, you've all been mentioned on another couple of forums (and I'm not talking flattery).

So, let's see, according to a select few .... we have 1) a love triangle, 2) a trailer 3) money, power, jealousy and 4) necrophilia:floorlaugh::floorlaugh::floorlaugh: ROFL, pen the book now purlease.

Give it away. Now. I can't stop laughing.

Neuromancer
05-13-2012, 07:32 AM
Untrue - we are allowed to speculate. Some people have speculated about a trailer which is perfectly OK. I personally am unsure about a trailer but I dont see anything wrong with others discussing it as it does no harm, and still could have credence.

And I posted "Why would you want to talk about a trailer? What difference would it make? what's the point?" to give the poster opportunity to demonstrate some relevance.

We could also talk about what colour socks GBC was wearing - but would it matter?

Greg
05-13-2012, 07:34 AM
I think everyone else has referred to that as the granny pash. It's not quite necrophilia, but not far off.

Lmao!!!!

pudwink
05-13-2012, 07:34 AM
I had probs getting back on as well. To Neuromancer- two things made me uncomfortable...1. Lots of eye blinking...might be nothing or it might me a sign that her thoughts are not matching the words coming out
2. "...desperate for her to be returned home... be returned? If she were pleading with ABC directly wouldn't she say "desperate for her to come home" or "Al, we are desperate for you to come home?" I just felt the words "for her to be returned home" objectified her -almost to the point of 'past tense' you know, she is no longer alive. How would she know that? IMO she may know or strongly suspect something at this point..I agree with you...uncomfortable to watch

coolcat
05-13-2012, 07:35 AM
Was it just me, or did the site have problems then? My computer is rather slow at the moment, as I have gone way over my internet allowance....But WooooooW, it seemed ot be right offline. :(

I was frustratingly offline aswell...Thooght it had been shut down deliberatley??

In regards to post with sister in law link...I have not seen that one...It actually made me think that maybe they were suggesting a kidnap?

Do you think that there is a ransom note's or maybe Allison left a message that she was meeting someone?

Olivia's tears did look like the crocodile variety though......

BTW...I'hate the veranda ornaments on Bc snr's house...tacky and redneck looking....IMO

Candarella
05-13-2012, 07:36 AM
My sources say 2 previous dv orders have been taken out against GBC.

Oh dear - wish we knew about those dv orders? So sad.

willough
05-13-2012, 07:36 AM
Heck, you've all been mentioned on another couple of forums (and I'm not talking flattery).


:floorlaugh:

Atleast we are worth the mention. In a word :

WHATEVER!!!!

Ixnaye
05-13-2012, 07:40 AM
My sources say 2 previous dv orders have been taken out against GBC.

Thanks SKMA that is very interesting. Is there anyway members of the public can do a criminal history check or anything to get information about those orders? Or is that restricted information only available to police, courts and lawyers etc?

willough
05-13-2012, 07:41 AM
I was frustratingly offline aswell...Thooght it had been shut down deliberatley??

In regards to post with sister in law link...I have not seen that one...It actually made me think that maybe they were suggesting a kidnap?

Do you think that there is a ransom note's or maybe Allison left a message that she was meeting someone?

Olivia's tears did look like the crocodile variety though......

BTW...I'hate the veranda ornaments on Bc snr's house...tacky and redneck looking....IMO

I know others feel she was genuinely upset....and HN (the little monkey...giggles), thought I was being a hard ass harsh moo....lol

I felt it was a bit crocodile tears in the eyes....and wasnt impressed with the depression mention and the "we want her bought back to us"....um....cringeworthy.

But, I can be a hard moo at times.....Maybe I just wasnt looking for the sincerity.

Neuromancer
05-13-2012, 07:41 AM
My sources say 2 previous dv orders have been taken out against GBC.

Hmm!

Orders? reports? charges? or just police visits? Anything that can be looked up on public records?

Greg
05-13-2012, 07:45 AM
Welcome! :)

I was working on a post on this topic so it might as well go here.

Was just looking at this video which i hadn't seen before, from the day of the search of BC senior house (26 Apr), interviewing sister:
http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/queensland/house-searched-for-missing-mum-clues-20120425-1xk24.html

"Gerard loves Allision, he's desperate for her to be returned home"
(VO) Sister Olivia says he's helping police as much as possible. (!)
"She seemed normal, delightful.. Please, darling Al come home."

I'd be interested to see what people think about this footage, I found it made me very uncomfortable.

I'm disturbed by the "please come home" stuff. After 6 days missing, when the person was known to be reliable, last reported happy, (? just been to hairdresser) about to go to conference they were looking forward to, I would not be thinking they'd be anywhere watching TV and just hiding out, or in any position to come home. I'd be worried they were lost in the bush, had broken leg, heart attack, head injury, something that meant they were stuck or trapped, knocked unconscious, dying of thirst/starvation or maybe abducted. Why would anyone say "please come home" rather than beg public for help?

I hadn't seen that one before, Olivia's acting was almost as bad as her brothers in the other interview....IMO

CaseClosed
05-13-2012, 07:46 AM
Um, then you're having micro naps between posts. There was previous discussion on this subject. That's the pivotal moment that I realised whatever is claimed here, particularly by the supposed 'locals', I take zero notice of. There's been nothing of substance since about the second thread.

Is there high unemployment in QLD or something? Some people have far too much time on their hands.:floorlaugh:

Are you unemployed? ... because I see you here quite often ....

You have choice, read it (and comment) or skip it (and ignore it). Simple!

Neuromancer
05-13-2012, 07:47 AM
The site to which you refer above I find unbelievably slow and it freezes my ipad every time I go there ... I've given up on it ... Anyone else have this problem?
The owner of the site wants us to contribute for his beer money .... I told him I would when he fixes his site !

The link isn't on that site, it's on blogspot

The link seems too long to work properly from here - i'll give you a shortened one:
http://tiny.cc/taw8dw

Greg
05-13-2012, 07:48 AM
Oh, c'mon. Let's play the 'I'm the tough new forum member with a quirky sense of fun' (hoping for stacks of 'thanks'). Seriously, there are an unfortunate handful of you that have really dumbed down this thread. I've noticed a lot of regular Aus posters steering clear.

Heck, you've all been mentioned on another couple of forums (and I'm not talking flattery).

So, let's see, according to a select few .... we have 1) a love triangle, 2) a trailer 3) money, power, jealousy and 4) necrophilia:floorlaugh::floorlaugh::floorlaugh: ROFL, pen the book now purlease.

Give it away. Now. I can't stop laughing.

Don't forget child pornography, homosexual affairs, sexual asphyxiation.

willough
05-13-2012, 07:53 AM
Don't forget child pornography, homosexual affairs, sexual asphyxiation.

and the 15 pairs of initials (I know im overboard) of women GBC has had affairs with.....with varying ages of 22 - approx 60.

With that said, we constantly have around 200 people watching this thread....and until all the toxicology reports come out (if they are even made public), we know nothing and it's interesting, then, the 200 surmounts to a fair amount of people, who are quite interested in what is being said around here......whether it be a little bit of fact and mainly fiction.

Always love your posts Greg :)

Neuromancer
05-13-2012, 07:55 AM
I had probs getting back on as well. To Neuromancer- two things made me uncomfortable...1. Lots of eye blinking...might be nothing or it might me a sign that her thoughts are not matching the words coming out
2. "...desperate for her to be returned home... be returned? If she were pleading with ABC directly wouldn't she say "desperate for her to come home" or "Al, we are desperate for you to come home?" I just felt the words "for her to be returned home" objectified her -almost to the point of 'past tense' you know, she is no longer alive. How would she know that? IMO she may know or strongly suspect something at this point..I agree with you...uncomfortable to watch

Yes it was a funny mismatch of two extreme ways of talking about A, as indirect object of sentence then in direct address.

Ok i hadn't noticed the blinking - nice catch. Did think the eyes didn't quite match the voice somehow. And something about the high-pitched crying voice just felt wrong.

It's funny cos the one from 2 days earlier, with BGC, seemed more genuine (it was just something like "we really need to find her"). But then compared to his performance in that, anything else is Oscar winning.

Rational
05-13-2012, 08:01 AM
Let's all give Greg and Willough lots of thanks and Truthmorph if you cannot deal with what has been written over the last few weeks in this forum and cannot take the heat; you know the saying. This forum has had its moments but in a typical Aussie way we all have been able to have some laughs amongst some really varied and interesting posts. That is what fora like this are about. And I do not give a rats .... What they say on other sites.

HN man
05-13-2012, 08:06 AM
Yes it was a funny mismatch of two extreme ways of talking about A, as indirect object of sentence then in direct address.

Ok i hadn't noticed the blinking - nice catch. Did think the eyes didn't quite match the voice somehow. And something about the high-pitched crying voice just felt wrong.

It's funny cos the one from 2 days earlier, with BGC, seemed more genuine (it was just something like "we really need to find her")

Interesting ... Also at around the 20 second mark, the sister didn't seem to welcoming of the detectives going into the house ... No audio, but odd body language ?.. After all, this was the point in time where one would be grateful to have such significant resources employed in an effort to return a loved one safely.

http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/queensland/house-searched-for-missing-mum-clues-20120425-1xk24.html

possumheart
05-13-2012, 08:08 AM
I hadn't seen that one before, Olivia's acting was almost as bad as her brothers in the other interview....IMO

Ok so I can't see that video so let's all acknowledge we are on different 'platforms'

clem1970
05-13-2012, 08:08 AM
Back to the topic at hand - if there were DV orders or incidents in the past, wouldn't there be Dept Families involved and concern over the children's welfare?

Rational
05-13-2012, 08:10 AM
I think I posted yesterday or that day before that on the shots after the service only 3 people were wearing sunnies: Nigelaine and their daughter. Indeed the body language is very interesting.

bellgirl
05-13-2012, 08:13 AM
Yes it was a funny mismatch of two extreme ways of talking about A, as indirect object of sentence then in direct address.

Ok i hadn't noticed the blinking - nice catch. Did think the eyes didn't quite match the voice somehow. And something about the high-pitched crying voice just felt wrong.

It's funny cos the one from 2 days earlier, with BGC, seemed more genuine (it was just something like "we really need to find her"). But then compared to his performance in that, anything else is Oscar winning.

The earlier video would have been just after Olivia arrived in Brissie and she would have been genuinely worried about where her sister-in-law was. Two days later, the video of her suggests that she either knows what has happened (brother and possibly father's involvement in ABC's homicide) or she's been fed a huge story about ABC's depression and possible suicide, and is trying to believe and stand by their stories. I feel sorry for her, being the one to speak - where are the men in this family?

Rational
05-13-2012, 08:13 AM
Child Safety as part of the Dept of Communites would only get involved if there were notifications of Child Abuse or neglect by either teachers, doctors or others who would know the children

marlywings
05-13-2012, 08:16 AM
I think I posted yesterday or that day before that on the shots after the service only 3 people were wearing sunnies: Nigelaine and their daughter. Indeed the body language is very interesting.

Appearances are also interesting. GBC with the full on beard....NBC with the shaved head....

willough
05-13-2012, 08:21 AM
Interesting ... Also at around the 20 second mark, the sister didn't seem to welcoming of the detectives going into the house ... No audio, but odd body language ?.. After all, this was the point in time where one would be grateful to have such significant resources employed in an effort to return a loved one safely.

http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/queensland/house-searched-for-missing-mum-clues-20120425-1xk24.html

Yep...On a few occasions, I thought her odd....Ages back, I mentioned the reversing ofthe car out of the driveway....and then after she is on the road, she winds up the passenger side window, as if trying to block out the media. If one didnt really want the media attention, they would have the window wound up, before they got out the driveway.

One area I think a few have been nasty on, is Elaine, racing to the letterbox. She is probably nervous that the media are stealing from her letterbox.....In a way, if I was in her position, maybe waiting for lawyer/barrister invoice letters etc, i'd be running to the letterbox too....lol (not wanting anyone to know my business)

possumheart
05-13-2012, 08:21 AM
Back to the topic at hand - if there were DV orders or incidents in the past, wouldn't there be Dept Families involved and concern over the children's welfare?

Emergency services would be aware from their records if a situation arose at said address. A guidance counselor at the school may have been advised.

HN man
05-13-2012, 08:21 AM
I'm curious to know from any Brisbanites whether this matter is the topic of much talkback radio, or is it sort of off limits?

CaseClosed
05-13-2012, 08:24 AM
If the husband and father are involved, I don't think his sister knows. They would be absolutely stupid to tell more people because of the risks associated with someone slipping and messing up their plan, and also implicating her in the whole matter. I do believe though that she suspects all is not quite right!! ... Why on earth would you say: "Gerard loves her ....". Is she apologising for him, just in case?

Moggill2
05-13-2012, 08:27 AM
The link isn't on that site, it's on blogspot

The link seems too long to work properly from here - i'll give you a shortened one:
http://tiny.cc/taw8dw

Very interesting read, thanks!

willough
05-13-2012, 08:27 AM
If the husband and father are involved, I don't think his sister knows. They would be absolutely stupid to tell more people because of the risks associated with someone slipping and messing up their plan, and also implicating her in the whole matter. I do believe though that she suspects all is not quite right!! ... Why on earth would you say: "Gerard loves her ....". Is she apologising for him, just in case?

Almost like she is justifying his feelings....or....actions maybe?

bellgirl
05-13-2012, 08:31 AM
I'm curious to know from any Brisbanites whether this matter is the topic of much talkback radio, or is it sort of off limits?

Not that I've heard. The "topic" is discussed amongst the general public, in private. The Media (including Radio Stations) only give bare minimum headlines and details. My best friend in Adelaide, is hearing/seeing the same info via Media down there, and as I am here in Brissie. Lots of "off limits" going on ....... IMO. And, if it helps put the perp away for life ....... I'm happy to let them drive us crazy for details!

HN man
05-13-2012, 08:33 AM
Almost like she is justifying his feelings....or....actions maybe?

But you have to feel seriously sorry for anyone placed in that position ... On one hand you would naturally be supportive of your family, but to have your doubts about a loved one doing the incomprehensible, would tear you to bits .... There won't be any winners

Thinking
05-13-2012, 08:34 AM
I'm curious to know from any Brisbanites whether this matter is the topic of much talkback radio, or is it sort of off limits?

Hi HN, on two occasions I've heard ads for Greg Carey's morning program on 4BC while I was on the school run - one was when Allison was missing and another last Thursday. He indicated he would be talking about the case and asking questions, speaking to reporters etc.

Unfortunately both times I then went to work and missed the programs. Would have been interested to hear the conversation and talkback.

Rational
05-13-2012, 08:35 AM
As for criminal histories they are only available through official channels and not available to the general public. For instance various government departments ( incl office of children and dept of communities) require all staff to have undergone a check, also anyone applying for a blue card to work with children.

willough
05-13-2012, 08:37 AM
But you have to feel seriously sorry for anyone placed in that position ... On one hand you would naturally be supportive of your family, but to have your doubts about a loved one doing the incomprehensible, would tear you to bits .... There won't be any winners

Hell yeah....That's why I think maybe I am being a hard ass. To have the media infront of you like that, firing questions at you.....and then having people critique your every word, would make it very hard to know what to say.

You know me.....Im a :moo: lol

I also take into account the closeness of the family. They are obviously very close, thus the bunkering down etc.....and they would want to support each other. Lets say, if GBC has nothing to do with this or has portrayed as such, how can she not be supportive.....if there is one alliance one must have, it's FAMILY.......even if deep down, one may know, it's not all kosher in Israel...

bellgirl
05-13-2012, 08:37 AM
But you have to feel seriously sorry for anyone placed in that position ... On one hand you would naturally be supportive of your family, but to have your doubts about a loved one doing the incomprehensible, would tear you to bits .... There won't be any winners

Well said! ABSOLUTELY! :/

willough
05-13-2012, 08:39 AM
As for criminal histories they are only available through official channels and not available to the general public. For instance various government departments ( incl office of children and dept of communities) require all staff to have undergone a check, also anyone applying for a blue card to work with children.

Absolutely......and even police officers can't just go into their system and check on people for no reason. Each time they check up on someone, they must have reasonable cause to look up that person, in their system......or else, the heirachy can come on them for looking people up for no darn good reason.

pudwink
05-13-2012, 08:40 AM
Got to get thyself to bed fellow Sleuthers, my little boy has WAY too much energy for me! I'll sign off with some pearls of wisdom from GBC's great-grandfather...

"Happiness does not come from being rich, nor merely being successful in your career, nor by self-indulgence. Be contented with what you have got and make the best of it. Look on the bright side of things instead of the gloomy one. But the real way to get happiness is by giving out happiness to other people. Try and leave this world a little better than you found it and when your turn comes to die, you can die happy in feeling that at any rate you have not wasted your time but have done your best."

I wonder if GBC ever read this????

Greg
05-13-2012, 08:40 AM
I know there are a few competing theories going my favorite is murder for financial gain so I've been thinking about that.

Gbc took out a 300k loan before Christmas for something that should have worked but didn't??????

He is renting so I'm guessing he doesn't own property to use as collateral.

So what was the surety on the loan.......did the parents have skin in the game and have there property as guarantee on this or another loan incurred in the business, after all they came out of retirement to sell sell sell...... Was it on the line and the debt was being called.....and not only was the business going to go down but so was the parents home...

It was mentioned that abc had a $600k price tag on her life cover..not a massive amount by any means, but enough to get out of ****.....gbc possibly had other intimate interests, he's a very proud and important man from a proud and important family, to lose face by losing the business and his parents home maybe too much....possibly his parents don't like abc, never had...photo of cleaning fathers home after the flood not with abc but gbc with someone else.......

I can hear the conversation now.....

We can't lose the home son it would kill your mother....

He starts googling, the wheels are in motion.........she never stood a chance from then...


Just a theory ....happy to be challenged.

willough
05-13-2012, 08:44 AM
Greg......You're guess is as good as any. :) Sounds plausible enough and not overly outlandish....and it doesn't involve Brangelina ;)

Neuromancer
05-13-2012, 08:47 AM
Why on earth would you say: "Gerard loves her ....". Is she apologising for him, just in case?

yes - you'd kinda take that as a given, being married and all.

Makes me wonder what the actual question was. Sounded defensive, like it was in response to asking if GBC was involved. In which case the "he loved her" stuff might be a deflection away from answering directly.

Neuromancer
05-13-2012, 08:49 AM
Ok so I can't see that video so let's all acknowledge we are on different 'platforms'

It's just a standard news webpage - so you prolly need to download the latest Adobe Flash player

HN man
05-13-2012, 08:50 AM
I know there are a few competing theories going my favorite is murder for financial gain so I've been thinking about that.

Gbc took out a 300k loan before Christmas for something that should have worked but didn't??????

He is renting so I'm guessing he doesn't own property to use as collateral.

So what was the surety on the loan.......did the parents have skin in the game and have there property as guarantee on this or another loan incurred in the business, after all they came out of retirement to sell sell sell...... Was it on the line and the debt was being called.....and not only was the business going to go down but so was the parents home...

It was mentioned that abc had a $600k price tag on her life cover..not a massive amount by any means, but enough to get out of ****.....gbc possibly had other intimate interests, he's a very proud and important man from a proud and important family, to lose face by losing the business and his parents home maybe too much....possibly his parents don't like abc, never had...photo of cleaning fathers home after the flood not with abc but gbc with someone else.......

I can hear the conversation now.....

We can't lose the home son it would kill your mother....

He starts googling, the wheels are in motion.........she never stood a chance from then...


Just a theory ....happy to be challenged.

Interesting theory. A real estate agents rent roll (management properties) is a valuable asset that one can borrow against, but since they only had one property manager on staff, it obviously wasn't that big a business. The current website has recently removed all staff profiles, but prior to it being withdrawn, there were only 6 (approx) staff, which isn't a big real estate business by any means, especially, contrary to the projection and media reports otherwise ie: the big signage on a building I presume they only leased in part.

Nads
05-13-2012, 08:51 AM
If the husband and father are involved, I don't think his sister knows. They would be absolutely stupid to tell more people because of the risks associated with someone slipping and messing up their plan, and also implicating her in the whole matter. I do believe though that she suspects all is not quite right!! ... Why on earth would you say: "Gerard loves her ....". Is she apologising for him, just in case?

She is shaking her head no when she is saying G loves her and wants her to come home.

Rational
05-13-2012, 08:52 AM
Thanks Neuromancer, I have just managed to get on that link and I agree with some of the analysis but what has really intrigued me is the way in which he continues to use the word 'we ' this is picked up by the analysis but certainly very interesting in relation to the discussion today re the other person involved. Why say'we have great family support' ....does he mean him and the other person involved?
Anyway this is it for me otherwise will have Mondayitis worth than usual. Goodnight everyone.

willough
05-13-2012, 08:53 AM
She is shaking her head no when she is saying G loves her and wants her to come home.

Yep....the mouth saying one thing, but the brain was thinking another, it seemed.

Susan12
05-13-2012, 08:53 AM
Something makes me think this is more personal and heat of the moment than about financial gain but time will tell (hopefully as this case has got me curious!)

CaseClosed
05-13-2012, 08:54 AM
I know there are a few competing theories going my favorite is murder for financial gain so I've been thinking about that.

Gbc took out a 300k loan before Christmas for something that should have worked but didn't??????

He is renting so I'm guessing he doesn't own property to use as collateral.

So what was the surety on the loan.......did the parents have skin in the game and have there property as guarantee on this or another loan incurred in the business, after all they came out of retirement to sell sell sell...... Was it on the line and the debt was being called.....and not only was the business going to go down but so was the parents home...

It was mentioned that abc had a $600k price tag on her life cover..not a massive amount by any means, but enough to get out of ****.....gbc possibly had other intimate interests, he's a very proud and important man from a proud and important family, to lose face by losing the business and his parents home maybe too much....possibly his parents don't like abc, never had...photo of cleaning fathers home after the flood not with abc but gbc with someone else.......

I can hear the conversation now.....

We can't lose the home son it would kill your mother....

He starts googling, the wheels are in motion.........she never stood a chance from then...


Just a theory ....happy to be challenged.

Follow the money ... that's what people say. I tend to agree with you except that I cannot for a minute think that someone could be so callous, someone who has 3 young children with that person?

I am more inclined to think this is related to history of DV, I'm the boss you do what I say, etc. PLUS the pressure of their financial woes, which ended horribly wrong. I don't think he intended to kill her IMO. But, he cannot face the music now (or as someone else said, he was pushed by big Kahuna to perpetuate the situation with a cover-up) - all of the above in my humble opinion!

Keentoknow
05-13-2012, 08:57 AM
Interesting theory. A real estate agents rent roll (management properties) is a valuable asset that one can borrow against, but since they only had one property manager on staff, it obviously wasn't that big a business. The current website has recently removed all staff profiles, but prior to it being withdrawn, there were only 6 (approx) staff, which isn't a big real estate business by any means, especially, contrary to the projection and media reports otherwise ie: the big signage on a building I presume they only leased in part.

What a mess to be in.......would take the edge off any romance he had....:floorlaugh:

possumheart
05-13-2012, 09:08 AM
Interesting theory. A real estate agents rent roll (management properties) is a valuable asset that one can borrow against, but since they only had one property manager on staff, it obviously wasn't that big a business. The current website has recently removed all staff profiles, but prior to it being withdrawn, there were only 6 (approx) staff, which isn't a big real estate business by any means, especially, contrary to the projection and media reports otherwise ie: the big signage on a building I presume they only leased in part.

Allison had been managing the rentals until recent (months) I think

Moggill2
05-13-2012, 09:09 AM
I know there are a few competing theories going my favorite is murder for financial gain so I've been thinking about that.

Gbc took out a 300k loan before Christmas for something that should have worked but didn't??????

He is renting so I'm guessing he doesn't own property to use as collateral.

So what was the surety on the loan.......did the parents have skin in the game and have there property as guarantee on this or another loan incurred in the business, after all they came out of retirement to sell sell sell...... Was it on the line and the debt was being called.....and not only was the business going to go down but so was the parents home...

It was mentioned that abc had a $600k price tag on her life cover..not a massive amount by any means, but enough to get out of ****.....gbc possibly had other intimate interests, he's a very proud and important man from a proud and important family, to lose face by losing the business and his parents home maybe too much....possibly his parents don't like abc, never had...photo of cleaning fathers home after the flood not with abc but gbc with someone else.......

I can hear the conversation now.....

We can't lose the home son it would kill your mother....

He starts googling, the wheels are in motion.........she never stood a chance from then...


Just a theory ....happy to be challenged.

This seems a possible motive to me as well, but my thoughts would be with a possible divorce happening.

Most divorces turn ugly when it comes to the children and finances. If the parents house has been used to finance any loans, I have no doubt they would be livid at the possibility of losing it as part of the financial settlement in the divorce.

itsthevibe
05-13-2012, 09:14 AM
And I posted "Why would you want to talk about a trailer? What difference would it make? what's the point?" to give the poster opportunity to demonstrate some relevance.

We could also talk about what colour socks GBC was wearing - but would it matter?

Sure, I was just saying people have the right to post things that they think are relevant even if you dont think they are. I also dont subscribe to the trailer theory and i agree with you, i dont see the point, but then not everyone sees things my way either.

willough
05-13-2012, 09:16 AM
What a mess to be in.......would take the edge off any romance he had....:floorlaugh:

and possibly any future romances......Even if he wasnt involved. I could just imagine meeting him... "Hi, Im Valerie" He says "Hi, I'm Gerard......Um Baden Clay"..........He'd need not say more......................I'd be a running Baybee....Right out that friggin door, so quick, before someone could say DV, BWANA, taxidermist, whatever..........................IM GONE!!!!

linette
05-13-2012, 09:16 AM
How long ago were the DV's taken out? It would seem that would be rather relevant if true.
Alot of interesting theories here... hopefully whoever did this will be caught very soon, and the police will have ALL the information they need to make it a solid case.

itsthevibe
05-13-2012, 09:18 AM
I know others feel she was genuinely upset....and HN (the little monkey...giggles), thought I was being a hard ass harsh moo....lol

I felt it was a bit crocodile tears in the eyes....and wasnt impressed with the depression mention and the "we want her bought back to us"....um....cringeworthy.

But, I can be a hard moo at times.....Maybe I just wasnt looking for the sincerity.

My original impressions were that she was very concerned for Allison, but defensive because she felt there might have been something amiss with Gerard. If Gerard did it i dont think the sister knows this, but maybe suspects.

KG1
05-13-2012, 09:18 AM
I figured tinypic is faster.. .

http://i45.tinypic.com/3582om9.jpg

I find the quote in this article very intriguing - the part where Allison's sister, Vanessa Fowler says that Gerard will have to step up now and fulfil both roles for his daughters. This doesn't sound to me as if the family believes that he is guilty. Vanessa is the same person who vowed at the funeral that justice would be found for Allison.
Are we all on the wrong track?

UnfoldingTruth
05-13-2012, 09:18 AM
I've never been in their shoes, so I have no idea how I would behave. I like to think I would know exactly what I'd do but I understand situational forces can be very strong. With this in mind, I choose to refrain from thinking things like 'if i were so and so i would do this or that'. So I'm looking at all the aspects of this case objectively, and from my personal perspective I think they are going about things in the most constructive and sensible way possible

Agreed its easy to say "i would do this, or act this way in that situation"/ But really unless you are in the situation you can't possibly know how you would act.

Berry
05-13-2012, 09:20 AM
Yes - I think the treatment of Allison's body tells us a lot, about both the perp's attitude towards Allison, and his ability to consider how her daughters and parents would remember that for the rest of their lives.

ie (1) utter disregard and distain (2) none

Even if you could argue accidental death by misadventure, the callous body treatment says "no way". And the person responsible has displayed their utter self-absorption, and lack of empathy and human decency.

Thank you Neuro, this is aptly stated, admire you, as a survivor of an ex rhodesian 'LOVE TAP' that caused me to suffer subdural haematomas and being unconscious for 2days after being dumped back in my own home, his sentence was larger due to that lack of remorse and no summoning of Emergency Medical help immediately/ He did press 000 but hung up straight away from his phone records.........he next rang a girlfriend for a ride to drive me to my homeand leave me there, not a river though.

possumheart
05-13-2012, 09:22 AM
This seems a possible motive to me as well, but my thoughts would be with a possible divorce happening.

Most divorces turn ugly when it comes to the children and finances. If the parents house has been used to finance any loans, I have no doubt they would be livid at the possibility of losing it as part of the financial settlement in the divorce.

Nigelaine has a business address in Wavell Heights. Don't know if BWANAS own the property. It is an insurance business.

Neuromancer
05-13-2012, 09:23 AM
and possibly any future romances......Even if he wasnt involved. I could just imagine meeting him... "Hi, Im Valerie" He says "Hi, I'm Gerard......Um Baden Clay"..........He'd need not say more......................I'd be a running Baybee....Right out that friggin door, so quick, before someone could say DV, BWANA, taxidermist, whatever..........................IM GONE!!!!

LOL - Sadly murderers seem to attract a particular subculture of groupies. The worst ones seem the most popular...
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2009/09/27/BA8M19PDAN.DTL

Keentoknow
05-13-2012, 09:25 AM
and possibly any future romances......Even if he wasnt involved. I could just imagine meeting him... "Hi, Im Valerie" He says "Hi, I'm Gerard......Um Baden Clay"..........He'd need not say more......................I'd be a running Baybee....Right out that friggin door, so quick, before someone could say DV, BWANA, taxidermist, whatever..........................IM GONE!!!!

He has not spoken very much to the media.......maybe waltz with the media and then you waltz with the devil. Wonder what he is thinking tonight. Tick, tick, tick, tick, :seeya:

Ixnaye
05-13-2012, 09:25 AM
Today's Newspaper has just gone online.....

<modsnip>

As police reveal they are close to an arrest, one of Australia's best-known biological scientists, professor emeritus Barry Boettcher, said pathology results would be telling police what Mrs Baden-Clay can't.

<modsnip>

"I noticed the investigating detective said he did not believe it was a random killing - and if that is true then they have eliminated at least one theory."

<modsnip>


http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/queensland/facts-on-allison-baden-clays-murder-to-be-revealed-by-pathology-tests-says-expert/story-e6freoof-1226354327501

KG1
05-13-2012, 09:26 AM
3.35 The statistical information available to the Commission suggests that in
Queensland two main groups take advantage of the plea of provocation. The
first group are men who kill a partner (or former partner or rival) at or after
separation. In all these cases the central dynamic is the exercise by the partner
(or former partner) of her right to personal autonomy and the man’s denial of
her right to autonomy.
67

Following the 'Ramage' case in Victoria some years back, the defence of provocation was removed from the statute books. Dead men tell no tales, and it was very easy for killing husbands to claim that the deceased had said words (often attacking the perpetrators manhood), which provoked the attack. This is what was alleged by Ramage in this case, and he got a fairly lenient sentence. It was an outrage here, particularly as there was a history of his DV. Her twin sister fought long and hard for the law to be changed. Now they try and claim 'defensive homicide', but are not as successful as they were with provocation.

willough
05-13-2012, 09:26 AM
Thank you Neuro, this is aptly stated, admire you, as a survivor of an ex rhodesian 'LOVE TAP' that caused me to suffer subdural haematomas and being unconscious for 2days after being dumped back in my own home, his sentence was larger due to that lack of remorse and no summoning of Emergency Medical help immediately/ He did press 000 but hung up straight away from his phone records.........he next rang a girlfriend for a ride to drive me to my homeand leave me there, not a river though.

Thank god....I feel for you.....I can easily think to myself of how I would be in that situation....or if I was in a marriage that involved DV. One can never know until they are in that situation though.

I am just so very sorry you.....and anyone here, that has been through this. I got bashed once at high school.....and that scared the crap out of me. To have someone you think cares for you, do that, would be awful. Unimaginable.

UnfoldingTruth
05-13-2012, 09:26 AM
As we all know it's all gossip even from the most trusted of sources until the facts are made public, as I've heard from badges not directly involved in the case that the evidence for premeditation is on his computer that is still being held in custody, which point to financial motives and googling(researching) items such as your "right to remain silent"...... prior to the disappearance.

Greg I too heard indirectly about legal searches on the computer. But not what they actually were. And along with other bits n pieces, thought there could be a number of reasons for legal searches. If you are of the belief GBC did it then of course it will point to premeditation and seal the case for you. If you don't believe he did or aren't convinced there may be other explanations, like something gone wrong with another party/threats etc.

frostythesnowman
05-13-2012, 09:27 AM
Hell yeah....That's why I think maybe I am being a hard ass. To have the media infront of you like that, firing questions at you.....and then having people critique your every word, would make it very hard to know what to say.

You know me.....Im a :moo: lol

I also take into account the closeness of the family. They are obviously very close, thus the bunkering down etc.....and they would want to support each other. Lets say, if GBC has nothing to do with this or has portrayed as such, how can she not be supportive.....if there is one alliance one must have, it's FAMILY.......even if deep down, one may know, it's not all kosher in Israel...

To tell the truth, if that was my family and I thought my son was innocent..no one would be getting to him...

Moggill2
05-13-2012, 09:29 AM
Something makes me think this is more personal and heat of the moment than about financial gain but time will tell (hopefully as this case has got me curious!)

Yes, that's the 2nd possibility in my thinking. An argument that escalated and got out of hand.

Or a combination of the two as CaseClosed has suggested.

I think the bizarreness is in everything that happened after that. The who, why, what & where.

I keep trying to imagine driving from Brookfield (presumably) to Kholo Creek and all I can think is that you would have to have nerves of steel. Geez, what if it just happened to be one of those nights the police set up their RBT down near Rafting Ground Rd (as they've done sometimes). Nerves of steel, I say!

Limaes
05-13-2012, 09:33 AM
Can anyone confirm if NBC & EBC are still working at C21 as Salespersons? If not when did they leave?

They don't seemed to be currently licenced R/E salespersons...TIA :)

http://www.fairtrading.qld.gov.au/are-you-licensed.htm

willough
05-13-2012, 09:33 AM
To tell the truth, if that was my family and I thought my son was innocent..no one would be getting to him...

I agree completely....As I turn around and watch him sleeping (he is still a little boy), the very thought he could do something like this, just wouldnt equate to me. I would back him to the hilt.




Hey IXNAYE.......Thanks for that info from today's newspaper....Very helpful.

Ixnaye
05-13-2012, 09:35 AM
Let's hope Allison's body does indeed give the detectives all answers they need to catch her killer as per todays Courier-Mail article.

Cccclllaareb
05-13-2012, 09:35 AM
Thank you ixnae for the news report. Very interesting. Was interested about the fingernails! Didn't know that

kailee
05-13-2012, 09:36 AM
Thinking back to the granny pash (I've watched it once, don't need to see it again thanks) - my interpretation at the time was he went in for the kiss [is everything alright dear?] and she layed it back on him twofold [sure is!] in a display of support towards him. If he's involved, she knew it, and was showing she's standing by him.

I'm guessing gramps is paying the legal fees.

If an 'elderly gent' was stationed at the bus stop for any length of time, I'm guessing he'd be making a few phone calls pacing about angry as $h!+. Just out of curiousity, is there a pay phone nearby? If children were sleeping over, all those dealings would be best done out of earshot.

Does BWANA have a towball? If not, do they own a second car with a towball? If not, why own a trailer and have it in pride of place in the front yard for years...? (I LOL'd @ mufasa reference) I fully understand the random snap of the trailer the other night taking a life of its own, but that shiney towball on the Prado got me thinking and I honestly can't rule a trailer out. Though you'd think they would have seized it in the raid...

I recall industrial bins being searched the same day of the car accident - was that Saturday? Anyone know what day those bin are normally collected? In a case at Alexandra Headland (Justine Jones) she went missing the night bins were awaiting collection so they sent them all to a special area to be searched for evidence. They ended up finding her remains through this method, otherwise she may never have been found in landfill. Was there anything like this done in Brookfield? Or Kenmore? I realise it's a much bigger collection than the section of Alexandra Headland.

Berry
05-13-2012, 09:37 AM
As to how people can afford expensive legal representation. The solicitor would require that the client place an initial sum of money into his trust account, and monthly invoices will be drawn against this. The barrister will also require this. The barrister is paid by the solicitor, not directly by the client. In many cases the client will not have the cash needed and so will mortgage a property that they own to cover it. The solicitor may then be the mortgage holder or it may be done through a bank. If the client is subsequently acquited then the fees paid for their defence are not recoverable from the State. People (and their relatives/friends) quite often lose their homes after successfully defending criminal charges. Legal aid is very difficult to obtain due to the relevant means tests. If you are going to mortgage your home, or ask your relatives to, in order to defend yourself then you might as well use the money to get the best you can afford, since the money will not be recouped.

As to lawyers dealing with clients who make admissions or confessions but who want to plead not guilty. The lawyer must inform the client that the lawyer is unable to say anything in court which is inconsistent with what the client has said. They cannot, for instance, assert that the client was not present at the time of the offence, suggest to eye-witnesses that they are mistaken or suggest to the jury some other version of events other than what the client has told them. They can only put the Crown to proof and suggest to the jury that the Crown has not met this evidentiary burden. That is sometimes effective where the Crown case is largely circumstantial. If the client insists on giving oral evidence in court then the lawyer cannot allow the client to say anything under oath which is inconsistent with the confession made. If the client does this, regardless, then the lawyer must withdraw from the matter, without telling the court why. The judge will of course realise what is going on.

Barristers do not generally have the option of refusing, or withdrawing from, a case because they dislike or disapprove of a client. The cab rank rule requires them to accept a brief where the matter is within their expertise and they have the time. Criticising barristers for complying with their ethical responsibilities is pointless. Outside many court buildings you will see a statue of a lady with a blindfold holding scales. Themis represents justice being blind. Meaning that cases are decided on the evidence, not on personal feelings, hunches, biases or community outrage. If a prosecution fails it is either because the accused was indeed innocent, or the evidence was insufficient to establish guilt beyond reasonable doubt, or the prosecution was incompetent. The idea of some clever barrister getting a person off is a myth. There are no secret arguments or rules to find. Witnesses may not be tricked. But defective evidence and insufficient procedural work can and should be identified by a competent lawyer.

Thanks Hawky, in my case of nearly dying because an ex rhodesian 'love tapped' me, a very devoted girlfriend was very rich and left her husband and sons to marry him before my court case (as I was in hospital and Brain Injury Rehab Unit for a long time before I could make my own statement).

She paid over $180 000 to defend him with an SC/QC.

I will tell you what he the SC (who is now a JUDGE) told my prosecutor though..'cannot stand the b itch wife of his...........so ignorant, he is as guilty as sin and I will never do an appeal for him after he is convicted'.

I found out this after he WAS convicted and cried and sobbed with relief to hear good does prevail even with with defense SC.

On a side note 5 jurors came to ex rhodesians' sentencing, so family told me, those jurors cried with relief he got what he got too.

God it was horrible and now it's been 10 yrs without any closure for me, I hope it is with this case involving ex rhodesians..........I need it selfishly for me and Allison

Ixnaye
05-13-2012, 09:38 AM
Hey IXNAYE.......Thanks for that info from today's newspaper....Very helpful.

You are welcome Willough, it's a good article isn't it. I thought it would be handy to post the article for those who are not actually located here in Brisbane.

willough
05-13-2012, 09:38 AM
LOL - Sadly murderers seem to attract a particular subculture of groupies. The worst ones seem the most popular...
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2009/09/27/BA8M19PDAN.DTL

Weird isn't it.....A twee insane in the membrane, to get involved. To me, it would be like russian roulette......Waiting for your turn. :what:

Berry
05-13-2012, 09:41 AM
If this was the case, do you think that she would have been bleeding either from where she was hit or from her nose, mouth etc. I'm sorry to be graphic - but fairly sure that you can handle it Berry. If she was bleeding, then there would have to be blood in the house, car, site of disposal ............ ?

Well no, this is often a "closed head injury", meaning happens inside sweetie and no outside sign of foul play........MINE WAS.

Berry
05-13-2012, 10:58 AM
I think perhaps the cultural differences i.e. the display on the front of the GB home is an interesting point.

I was just pondering why if it was a "love tap" gone wrong, you wouldn't ring the police, tell them what happened. The punishment couldn't be has bad as it is for murder and disposing of a body. I then thought of the culture of SA regarding police, from what I have read police are seen as being untrustworthy, open to corruption and certainly not the type of relationship that most Australians have for the majority.

I wonder if the love tap theory is right, would BC snr have said, you can't trust the police son, we need to get rid of the body etc.

My other question is - what "evidence" would have needed to be got rid of in industrial bins, or any bins?

Good points:

1. Who would be able to tell if poor Allison was dead??

2. Pulse on wrist/neck?

3. If proven or not proven as a death..........why not ring for Ambo?

4. If non compliance to ring immediately for Ambo, why?

5. Use of bins would therefore be used to be rid of clothes she was wearing after putting 'walking gear' on her to cover this story of his?

All above is JMO if GBC and NBC were involved.

Ixnaye
05-13-2012, 11:05 AM
Thank you ixnae for the news report. Very interesting. Was interested about the fingernails! Didn't know that

Yes the fingernails was a surprise to me as well, by the sound of it they won't be able to get any clues from under her nails. It also was very interesting how they deduce if a body has been moved from the pooling of the blood inside the body.

Kimster
05-13-2012, 11:25 AM
Please forgive me if I'm missing the obvious. Although I am here often, time doesn't allow me to read every post.

They've only searched GBC's house and his parents' house? And they are merely awaiting toxicology reports to make an arrest? I would think they would have searched another person's property that Allison knew before releasing the information that they are about to arrest her killer - unless her killer lives in either one of those homes....

itsthevibe
05-13-2012, 11:28 AM
Please forgive me if I'm missing the obvious. Although I am here often, time doesn't allow me to read every post.

They've only searched GBC's house and his parents' house? And they are merely awaiting toxicology reports to make an arrest? I would think they would have searched another person's property that Allison knew before releasing the information that they are about to arrest her killer - unless her killer lives in either one of those homes....

Correct. No searches of other homes have been reported. So unless they have searched others and not reported it, well I'd say you're right!

Neuromancer
05-13-2012, 12:15 PM
Thank you Neuro, this is aptly stated, admire you, as a survivor of an ex rhodesian 'LOVE TAP' that caused me to suffer subdural haematomas and being unconscious for 2days after being dumped back in my own home, his sentence was larger due to that lack of remorse and no summoning of Emergency Medical help immediately/ He did press 000 but hung up straight away from his phone records.........he next rang a girlfriend for a ride to drive me to my homeand leave me there, not a river though.

That's good to know that sentencing considers this (I'd only thought about it in the psych profiling sense).

And glad you lived to tell the tale.

what a classic psychopath - calling another girl to give him (and your unconscious body!) a lift home. And that boys and girls, is how psychopaths think...

Neuromancer
05-13-2012, 12:18 PM
Can anyone confirm if NBC & EBC are still working at C21 as Salespersons? If not when did they leave?

They don't seemed to be currently licenced R/E salespersons...TIA :)

http://www.fairtrading.qld.gov.au/are-you-licensed.htm

Nice sleuthing!

Well their names were still on the webpage until it was taken down after all this.
Although that doesn't necessarily mean licenses were current.

Neuromancer
05-13-2012, 12:21 PM
They've only searched GBC's house and his parents' house? And they are merely awaiting toxicology reports to make an arrest? I would think they would have searched another person's property that Allison knew before releasing the information that they are about to arrest her killer - unless her killer lives in either one of those homes....

Disco ;)

Ixnaye
05-13-2012, 12:34 PM
Nigelaine has a business address in Wavell Heights. Don't know if BWANAS own the property. It is an insurance business.

That address in Wavell Heights is 10 doors away from me, it's a house the same people have owned it and lived in it for 23 years, no idea what connection they would have with the Baden-Clays but I have lived here myself for 13 years and as far as I am aware they do not run any type of business from out of that house. Although if they were insurance agents then a home office would be all they would need.

Keyboredom
05-13-2012, 12:35 PM
Um, then you're having micro naps between posts. There was previous discussion on this subject. That's the pivotal moment that I realised whatever is claimed here, particularly by the supposed 'locals', I take zero notice of. There's been nothing of substance since about the second thread.

Is there high unemployment in QLD or something? Some people have far too much time on their hands.:floorlaugh:

I think a few locals have had some pivotal moments reading your posts too. Considering you're posting on the 7th thread while stating there's nothing of substance on it, is what we call in micro-napping dole-budging Queensland, 'ironic'.

Keyboredom
05-13-2012, 12:47 PM
Oh, c'mon. Let's play the 'I'm the tough new forum member with a quirky sense of fun' (hoping for stacks of 'thanks'). Seriously, there are an unfortunate handful of you that have really dumbed down this thread. I've noticed a lot of regular Aus posters steering clear.

Heck, you've all been mentioned on another couple of forums (and I'm not talking flattery).

So, let's see, according to a select few .... we have 1) a love triangle, 2) a trailer 3) money, power, jealousy and 4) necrophilia:floorlaugh::floorlaugh::floorlaugh: ROFL, pen the book now purlease.

Give it away. Now. I can't stop laughing.

I think the point you're missing is no ne cares if you're laughing or not, and aren't seeking your thanks. Judging by your online demeanour the guess would be you haven't laughed or thanked someone in real life for quite a long time. Over-using emoticons doesn't justify your opinion over others. Despite the vibe you give out, most on here would support your right to an opinion. But the sheer rudeness and nastiness: 'Give it away. Now'.

Neuromancer
05-13-2012, 12:47 PM
Good points:

1. Who would be able to tell if poor Allison was dead??

2. Pulse on wrist/neck?



It's pretty easy to tell, Berry, if that's any reassurance.

The immediate physical signs are obvious - breathing stops, eyes go fixed and dilated, pallor (paler than a living person ever goes).
Then cooling starts and rigor mortis after a bit.

Neuromancer
05-13-2012, 12:54 PM
Just like yesterday, the CM headlines in order on the front page are interesting:

1.THE man whose expert evidence freed Lindy Chamberlain says Allison Baden-Clay's body would be telling the story of her murder to investigators.
2.Baden-Clay: Allison 'knew killer', police set for arrest
3.Search: Police visit husband as hunt continues

Neuromancer
05-13-2012, 01:08 PM
___________

Charges could be laid over the murder of Brookfield mum-of-three Allison Baden-Clay as early as this week with key test results due very soon.

Police said they were unlikely to make an arrest until they had the results of Mrs Baden-Clay’s autopsy and toxilogy tests.

The results are due some time this week with the usual turnaround for the tests two weeks.

http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/queensland/badenclay-tests-may-lead-to-killers-arrest-20120513-1ykec.html#ixzz1ulo9BU2U
___________

So sounds like, as Kimster said, they've pretty much had it worked out, but just had to make sure nothing in the tests conflicts with their other conclusions.

Keyboredom
05-13-2012, 01:09 PM
Just like yesterday, the CM headlines in order on the front page are interesting:

1.THE man whose expert evidence freed Lindy Chamberlain says Allison Baden-Clay's body would be telling the story of her murder to investigators.
2.Baden-Clay: Allison 'knew killer', police set for arrest
3.Search: Police visit husband as hunt continues

Seems while each article doesn't provide the public much new info, each one contains something to make the killer squirm. If the killer felt above everyone else in the past, bet they're not self-congratulating at the moment. Can't imagine too much "I think we've got away with this" talk.

BrizzychickinUSA
05-13-2012, 01:15 PM
If she was a competent caregiver, the kids were happy there then probably, if it was contested by Dickies, then an argument of "the best interests of the children" would develop, it would be a question of capacity as well i spose, But remember, even convicted Fathers are Fathers and have some say in what happens to their children

The Dickies are on the Goldie....an hour and a bit from the kids school....where as the BC grans are walking distance from the girls school; that may have something to do with the careing...

I hope they can grab the girls and put them into Staidens at Sthport....lovely anglican girls school that has day boarding Mon to Fri

Neuromancer
05-13-2012, 01:20 PM
Seems while each article doesn't provide the public much new info, each one contains something to make the killer squirm. If the killer felt above everyone else in the past, bet they're not self-congratulating at the moment. Can't imagine too much "I think we've got away with this" talk.

Yes, lol.

Note to self - never deny the press interviews, even if you're guilty!

Neuromancer
05-13-2012, 01:22 PM
The Dickies are on the Goldie....an hour and a bit from the kids school....where as the BC grans are walking distance from the girls school; that may have something to do with the careing...

I hope they can grab the girls and put them into Staidens at Sthport....lovely anglican girls school that has day boarding Mon to Fri

St Hilda's you mean?

IGGS does weekly boarding too.

Greg
05-13-2012, 01:29 PM
This seems a possible motive to me as well, but my thoughts would be with a possible divorce happening.

Most divorces turn ugly when it comes to the children and finances. If the parents house has been used to finance any loans, I have no doubt they would be livid at the possibility of losing it as part of the financial settlement in the divorce.

Yeah that is rolling around in my thoughts as well...

Keyboredom
05-13-2012, 01:29 PM
Just on the trailer issue, recent posts remind me everyone should be entitled to voice their opinion. But, on the justification given for it to be of interest: my vehicle has a tow ball, not recently used, not greasy or rusty, and my trailer has been sitting around in the way for a number of years, Which would show up on google earth :)... used a couple of times per year at best. I think the fact gbc car has tow ball and bwana has trailer is just coincidence (or maybe gbc would borrow it to do a run to the dump once every couple of years, if he was feeling all 'manly'). Police haven't shown any interest in the trailer and I think they were already clear which vehicles / transport methods they were looking for. The lack of witnesses to trailer (versus rumoured vehicle sightings) plus the added difficulty of attaching and moving a trailer with a body in it makes no sense. Which in itself doesn't discount it, as a lot of Allison's case makes no sense, and is so surreal and sad... But I'd join everyone else who's bet the trailer and truth_viper's necrophilia aren't going to feature in the prosecution ;)

Neuromancer
05-13-2012, 01:30 PM
the BC grans are walking distance from the girls school;

They might even have some extra room soon!

Keyboredom
05-13-2012, 01:33 PM
The Dickies are on the Goldie....an hour and a bit from the kids school....where as the BC grans are walking distance from the girls school; that may have something to do with the careing...

I hope they can grab the girls and put them into Staidens at Sthport....lovely anglican girls school that has day boarding Mon to Fri

I really hope those poor girls aren't forced to board after all they've been through ... I think they will need all the love and nurturing they can get in a home environment after the magnitude and circumstance of their loss. :(

Futureinsight
05-13-2012, 01:39 PM
I find the quote in this article very intriguing - the part where Allison's sister, Vanessa Fowler says that Gerard will have to step up now and fulfil both roles for his daughters. This doesn't sound to me as if the family believes that he is guilty. Vanessa is the same person who vowed at the funeral that justice would be found for Allison.
Are we all on the wrong track?


I was thinking this could be more a statement of the past, meaning GBC never did any part of the taking care of the kids. Eg ABC has an early morning start one morning for a conference and GBC didn't step up to take kids to school etc they stayed at BC Grandparents home... Step up meaning you aren't even close mate!!!!! It was like she was challenging him...Well buddy hope you can handle it, you didn't want her or respect her or anything she did... Not a comment about the future or a long term indication and definitely not a supportive hes going to be around for a long time response IMO.

Neuromancer
05-13-2012, 01:48 PM
I was thinking this could be more a statement of the past, meaning GBC never did any part of the taking care of the kids. Eg ABC has an early morning start one morning for a conference and GBC didn't step up to take kids to school etc they stayed at BC Grandparents home... Step up meaning you aren't even close mate!!!!! It was like she was challenging him...Well buddy hope you can handle it, you didn't want her or respect her or anything she did... Not a comment about the future or a long term indication and definitely not a supportive hes going to be around for a long time response IMO.

lol yes.

There's a telling blog entry here: http://www.expertrealestate.blogspot.com.au/2008_11_01_archive.html
_________
Mr Mum!
27.11.08 The past week I have been trying to do my best impersonation of my dear wife – and struggling! Allison turned the big “four-o” earlier this year and to mark the occasion she and her best friend have taken a week off at the Golden Door health spa. Whilst she has been enjoying the rest and quietude, I have been trying to manage the house and transport my three girls to all of their activities – and I am knackered! It’s a bit of a cliché that most men have no idea how hard it is to run a household, and I thought that I was pretty in tune with the day-to-day routine, but I can honestly say that this week has given me a real insight into the challenges of managing a family. Waking up, getting dressed, having breakfast, making lunches, getting to school, collecting from school, bath, cook dinner, eat dinner, homework, teeth, bed! And that doesn’t include any extracurricular activities like ballet, swimming and music! And, I haven’t done any vacuuming, dusting, cleaning or a single load of washing!

Futureinsight
05-13-2012, 02:20 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by KG1
I find the quote in this article very intriguing - the part where Allison's sister, Vanessa Fowler says that Gerard will have to step up now and fulfil both roles for his daughters. This doesn't sound to me as if the family believes that he is guilty. Vanessa is the same person who vowed at the funeral that justice would be found for Allison.
Are we all on the wrong track?


In response to the are we all on the wrong track.... Well stranger things have happened!!!! It will shock the majority if that happens... I havent heard one single person in public that doesn't believe that either he did it or that he knows who did.... Lots say but it is possible that he didn't as not many people feel it right to make such a statement based on very little fact...

Futureinsight
05-13-2012, 02:24 PM
I'm sure this has been discussed at length but sometimes it's hard to remember..... I find it very odd that ABC was found wearing exactly what GBC said she was... Most husbands would struggle to be able to say what there wife was wearing even if they were sitting across the table from them.. Let alone the next day and then work out what's missing from there items of clothing....

minni
05-13-2012, 02:26 PM
In light of Greg's post re: computer evidence, I am starting to again lean very strongly towards the theory that Allison stumbled upon some shady business dealings that may have had something to do with her or her children...insurance seems probable especially with the '13 month' posts going around earlier (someone said ABC policy had just reached the 13 month mark?) or some scheme to access money entitled to her children maybe? I think its possible she confronted him and when you consider the reports of previous DV, then.......well, we all know the rest.
It could also be possible GBC was conspiring with father or 'dodgy business partner/co-conspirator' of some kind in a shady business deal, someone who would also want to silence her? We talked before about how family and loved ones might possibly cover up or help some who's committed murder, but many of us have trouble believing that could happen (even though it does)...so it makes more sense to me that greed would encourage a 'business partner' to help cover up the crime and save their own arse too!

Futureinsight
05-13-2012, 02:52 PM
In light of Greg's post re: computer evidence, I am starting to again lean very strongly towards the theory that Allison stumbled upon some shady business dealings that may have had something to do with her or her children...insurance seems probable especially with the '13 month' posts going around earlier (someone said ABC policy had just reached the 13 month mark?) or some scheme to access money entitled to her children maybe? I think its possible she confronted him and when you consider the reports of previous DV, then.......well, we all know the rest.
It could also be possible GBC was conspiring with father or 'dodgy business partner/co-conspirator' of some kind in a shady business deal, someone who would also want to silence her? We talked before about how family and loved ones might possibly cover up or help some who's committed murder, but many of us have trouble believing that could happen (even though it does)...so it makes more sense to me that greed would encourage a 'business partner' to help cover up the crime and save their own arse too!

Yeh I think its the business the money the marriage and talk of divorce the affair I think there lives were on fire!!! Pressures from all angles.. GBC having an affair to feel adequate, needed, important, powerful and in control cause in reality he had none!!!! He had no way out, pressure from his parents with his failing business venture there lively hood in retirement in question and ABC not wanting to keep losing money in his poor decisions or keep doing the hard yards with the business and life and marriage when GBC has again had an affair and lied!!!!

An explosive situation for anyone to be in and if neither of them was getting any personal counselling there whole world would have been spinning out of control while they put on up a front and a brave face "never complaining" to the community, friends Etc...

Curiousasacat
05-13-2012, 03:10 PM
"whoever did it" would have more likely "dumped" upstream and the poor lady has ended up under the bridge with all the rain we had yeah?? Someone at work mentioned (rumour of course) something about body put in a hole near scout camp and it washed out with rain? Just another rumour I heard day after they found her.



I have been waiting for this to be mentioned. I remember reading a news article on QT.com.au and read the above statement. I'm sorry I can't link it. I remember reading it really quick and thought it was strange no one saw it and commented on it here. So I thought I imagined it or dreamed it.
It said on the lines of - The body was dumped/hidden in scrub land and had it not been for the large amounts of rain the body would probably never had been found but the rain caused it to slide down to where it was found : (


Just read Ippygals post again and to clarify I don't recall anything about a "hole"

HN man
05-13-2012, 03:48 PM
Can anyone confirm if NBC & EBC are still working at C21 as Salespersons? If not when did they leave?

They don't seemed to be currently licenced R/E salespersons...TIA :)

http://www.fairtrading.qld.gov.au/are-you-licensed.htm

The response you received from Neuromancer is not quite correct. The parents used to work there, but certainly not when this tragedy came to light. There are numerous previous links provided throughout these threads from a cached website that displays them and others as being staff. For approx one week immediately after ABC was reported missing, the total current staff of about 6 did appear on the C21 website, which I can confidently recall did not include Allison, but current "meet the team" page has since been taken off their website.
In support of this, the previous links to which I refer, are directed via a website called Way,Wayback. Will see if I can find it.

Update: here is the old link which I note is dated 2008 (go to meet the team)
http://web.archive.org/web/20080813142527/http://century21.com.au/westside/

Curiousasacat
05-13-2012, 03:59 PM
This person makes an excellent point. It would be a shame to destroy innocent people's lives/reputations just for the sake of some over-enthusiastic gossip.


Actually, the media has given definite indications to a certain lady. Directly quoting her blurb from Century 21. Maybe have a talk to them instead.

Curiousasacat
05-13-2012, 04:06 PM
IMO GBC and BC Seniors all know what happened that night. I feel nothing but contempt for this family; how can they look at those little girls and not feel any guilt or remorse - you would have to be selfish, evil people to not feel anything, and just try to save your own skin. Allison's mum and dad deserve answers. Allison will never get to see her children finish school, help them plan for their formal, graduate from Uni, marry, have children or be a grandmother herself. Someone took her life. If they know what has happened, they are just as guilty as the person that killed her. Well, I hope the rantings of that holy man and his prophecy comes true - the worst is yet to come for that family.


A mother that deserved to be able to do these things with her babies. How dare someone selfishly take that away from girls or mother. It makes me so angry. Everyday of those girls lives destroyed. Every day those 3 girls are alive they will be wishing "I wish my mum was here today for this special/sad/happy/lifechanging/first boyfriend/I need advice/anything day"

It also makes me angry with all of you on here defending people named,insinuated etc. If these people are reading this blog, why don't you post a quick message or why not go to the media and make a statement that takes away any implications.?????? It is in your hands to clear up any speculation.


cranky pants on today.

Curiousasacat
05-13-2012, 04:11 PM
It's not a rumour re the trailer. Someone posted some CCTV footage at the intersection with a white SUV towing at 3am or so in the morning on this forum on last Friday morning. There have been possibly 2 sightings of the trailers at GBC and his father's house. Why are people here now discounting? Its totally plausible or are some posters trying to shut down conversation??


Oh Geez, I mean no disrespect but if you had read the messages/posts around this incident you would understand how the trailer topic came up. 2 threads back last page I believe.

Honestly I do mean no disrespect I have enjoyed reading your posts : )

kailee
05-13-2012, 04:42 PM
Anyone know when QPS started to focus on the roundabout?
I seem to recall someone on this forum mentioning the camera in here well before it was ever mentioned in MSM, but I could be wrong.
In other words, will WS get a mention in the credits when this is done and dusted?

Futureinsight
05-13-2012, 04:48 PM
Actually, the media has given definite indications to a certain lady. Directly quoting her blurb from Century 21. Maybe have a talk to them instead.

Where are these?? I have been wanting to read more about all that's been reported on any other women involved in this case... There seems to be three seperate women that have been getting mixed up as one or something.... IMO (which i have some info on but limited and confused) there is:
1 Ex Business partner female which has been only interviewed once for 4hours and is owed a very large amount of money
2 female identified as ex employee potentially Working for Remax??
3 current employee TM profiled on meet the team and has been seen at the residence of the BC family by media, which doesn't make sense if she has a lawyer
4 well there really could be more!!! Ladies we are not even aware of...

Either 2 or 3 has been interviewed 3 times and has hired a lawyer.. My thoughts is 2... But need way more info...
And well 1 could have hired a lawyer as they are owed a very large sum of money and well the business isn't going to improve anytime soon now it's only going to get worse...
Do we even know if the lawyer hired by a female is even a criminal lawyer???

Keyboredom
05-13-2012, 04:59 PM
I remember reading it really quick and thought it was strange no one saw it and commented on it here. So I thought I imagined it or dreamed it.
It said on the lines of - The body was dumped/hidden in scrub land and had it not been for the large amounts of rain the body would probably never had been found but the rain caused it to slide down to where it was found : (


I think that referred to an Ipswich politician's tweet? They probably received some info about how much the Kholo creek flooded. Locals (despite having to hide to avoid the ire of online woodpeckers) know how quickly the creeks here rise, and having had decent rainfall for a while, they tend to come up (and go down) quite quick. I wasn't near Kholo that weekend but when I went to Upper Brookfield mid-Saturday the creeks were suprisingly high and fast flowing after what seemed like not a huge amount of rain.

When you walk some of these creeks when they're dry, there are a lot of drop-offs into washed out pits of silt or gravel where the majority of flow goes - and they're bone dry and look like they'd never flood in a million years. Someone could conceivably think they look like a ready made grave and place a body in there covered with rocks..without the benefit of current rain that could look like a long term option. Then when it rains a lot, that's going to be the first place to get unsettled by the water. Total guess, but if a hole's been mentioned, it could be along those lines.

I think someone from right near the bridge confirmed things were fast-flowing there...if Allison's body was upstream, being moved by the water is totally plausible. Coming to rest where the bridge pylons create current / backwash might also be expeceted - that's where a lot of the larger floating debris often ends up (not meaning to use the term in the same sentence as poor Allison) rather than going into the river.