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View Full Version : Australia - Allison Baden-Clay, 43, Brisbane QLD, 19 April 2012 - #7



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LisB
05-13-2012, 05:09 PM
I am a first time poster but have read and followed this case since page one. I agree with the 'innocent till proven guilty ' scenario and I am usually a poor judge of character and need to actually see things for myself before believing them. But I have had an uneasy feeling about all I have seen / read in regards to this case.

I am originally from the UK and have relocated to Brisbane 12 weeks ago. Currently living in 'Brookfield'. Hence the reason for me being so focused and saddened by this case.

I feel that the fact the the police are not looking at this as a random attack and believe Allison knew her killer, that they are requesting any witnesses that saw either of the 'family' cars, and the fact that GBC has not made an official statement speaks volumes. Especially the 'family' cars...........

IMHO I believe it was not premeditated but a domestic gone wrong and then panic set in. I believe there is regret and that the 'devastation' shown at funeral was genuine as the full realisation of the events suddenly hit home.

I think the time has come to show respect and admit the horrendous error of your ways.

My heart goes out to the 3 girls and Allisons parents, siblings and friends. RIP lovely lady

Curiousasacat
05-13-2012, 05:24 PM
Where are these?? I have been wanting to read more about all that's been reported on any other women involved in this case... There seems to be three seperate women that have been getting mixed up as one or something.... IMO (which i have some info on but limited and confused) there is:
1 Ex Business partner female which has been only interviewed once for 4hours and is owed a very large amount of money
2 female identified as ex employee potentially Working for Remax??
3 current employee TM profiled on meet the team and has been seen at the residence of the BC family by media, which doesn't make sense if she has a lawyer
4 well there really could be more!!! Ladies we are not even aware of...

Either 2 or 3 has been interviewed 3 times and has hired a lawyer.. My thoughts is 2... But need way more info...
And well 1 could have hired a lawyer as they are owed a very large sum of money and well the business isn't going to improve anytime soon now it's only going to get worse...
Do we even know if the lawyer hired by a female is even a criminal lawyer???

http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/national/did-two-people-kill-mum-allison-baden-clay/story-e6freuzr-1226351430100

It is understood a former colleague of Mr Baden-Clay's also hired a lawyer after being interviewed by police three times. The woman, a fellow real estate agent, worked closely with Mr Baden-Clay at his Century 21 office and the pair were listed as the joint selling agents on various properties.

The woman's professional profile said she "wouldn't have worked for just anyone" and that she brought to the business "empathy, understanding, a talent for solving problems and above all, a true love of property".



Therefore the media have told us WHO has hired the lawyer!!

Curiousasacat
05-13-2012, 05:28 PM
That address in Wavell Heights is 10 doors away from me, it's a house the same people have owned it and lived in it for 23 years, no idea what connection they would have with the Baden-Clays but I have lived here myself for 13 years and as far as I am aware they do not run any type of business from out of that house. Although if they were insurance agents then a home office would be all they would need.



How strange is that????

True
05-13-2012, 05:58 PM
I'm back. Word of warning, don't disrespect the moderator, she WILL ban you lol.

I've been sitting back doing a lot of reading during my ban and I can't believe the amount of crazy theories. I have been loling.

Happy Mothers Day for yesterday everyone. I watched some of Allisons beautiful service on the news. Obviously she was much loved. It was very sad. particulary when the best friend spoke. I thought it were odd that GBC never spoke. VERY ODD.

I don't think a threesome was involved. I don't think Allison was that type of person. Someone who strived so hard to set a good example doesn't partake in things like that. I also believe she was inherently good and of high morals.

I also don't think her getting her hair done was one of the reasons for her murder. I don't think it would be unusual for a woman who puts such pride her appearance to get her hair done. She probably visited the hair dresser often.

I still think it was a simmering resentment that eventually came to an argument and subsequent attack on her. Crazy moment for someone who was already under massive pressure. Did it and probably didn't mean to, and afterwards thought "oh no what have I done!".

whitechapel
05-13-2012, 05:59 PM
First Post.



Update: here is the old link which I note is dated 2008 (go to meet the team)
http://web.archive.org/web/20080813142527/http://century21.com.au/westside/

Thanks for the link to the old C21 Bios.

EBC Extract
English-born Elaine has a fascinating life story {EVEN MORE FACINATING NOW}spanning three continents, three children and six grandchildren, parts of which she has already documented into short stories just for the family – and which she is keen to turn into a book when she has a rare spare moment. {PROBABLY NOT SO MUCH TIME IF VISITING SON IN THE BIG HOUSE} Her many interests include psychology, reading, music, travel and taking an active interest in her grandchildren’s development {MAYBE TOO ACTIVE OVER LAST 3 WEEKS}.

ABC Extract
Qualified Real Estate Sales Person
{NOTHING MORE - DEAFENING SILENCE, SPEAKS VOLUMES}

Fingers crossed for a postive news from the QPS early this week.

Strangeworld
05-13-2012, 05:59 PM
Can anyone confirm if NBC & EBC are still working at C21 as Salespersons? If not when did they leave?

They don't seemed to be currently licenced R/E salespersons...TIA :)

http://www.fairtrading.qld.gov.au/are-you-licensed.htm

ABC and NBC come up as registered, but not GBC. Can anyone think of a reason why GBC wouldn't come up in a search as a registered real estate agent?

Sorry correction - he does come up - just that Baden Clay is not hyphenated.

linette
05-13-2012, 06:00 PM
Sorry, but I can't find the previous post to quote... but I think it was SKMA who wrote that they had a source which stated GBC had 2 DVO's against him in the past? Just wondering if these were taken out by Allison or someone else? Wondering also how long ago these may have been taken out?
IMO this would be very relevant.
Keep up the great work sleuths!!

minni
05-13-2012, 06:11 PM
In light of Greg's post re: computer evidence, I am starting to again lean very strongly towards the theory that Allison stumbled upon some shady business dealings that may have had something to do with her or her children...insurance seems probable especially with the '13 month' posts going around earlier (someone said ABC policy had just reached the 13 month mark?) or some scheme to access money entitled to her children maybe? I think its possible she confronted him and when you consider the reports of previous DV, then.......well, we all know the rest.
It could also be possible GBC was conspiring with father or 'dodgy business partner/co-conspirator' of some kind in a shady business deal, someone who would also want to silence her? We talked before about how family and loved ones might possibly cover up or help some who's committed murder, but many of us have trouble believing that could happen (even though it does)...so it makes more sense to me that greed would encourage a 'business partner' to help cover up the crime and save their own arse too!

having said abovementioned theory, I still cannot picture GBC spending the required amount of time needed to strangle someone (whom he once loved) without stopping and realising what he was doing. Remember he would be looking right into her face to do this. I don't know him from Jack, but my mind simply cannot picture his face whilst doing this. The face I DO picture when I think of this is NBC. I don't know why, its nothing but my opinion...but he appears much more ruthless and cold blooded, again I don't know him from Jack, JMO. As for the disposing of Allison...again I see NBC. I think GBC would have wrapped her in something to 'protect' her, rather than leave her like she was. but obviously a blanket, sheet would link him directly.

minni
05-13-2012, 06:17 PM
If COD turns out to not be strangulation, this theory wouldn't make much sense, and probably be irrelevant. I know husbands usually carry out that crime, I just can't picture this particular husband in the act of doing it

True
05-13-2012, 06:19 PM
I think wrapping her in a blanket would have screamed "GUILTY HUSBAND". He might have still been a little fond of her, but he wouldn't have want to leave her in any way that implicated him.

I suspect. IMO. He spent the whole night trying to think about what a random attacker would do, to make it look like someone else had done it. I can see strangulation. Or a head injury IMO. Strangulation does not always take 10 mins, from what I've researched. If you cut off the vein in the side of the neck that supplies oxygen, death can occur in a minute or two.

Rational
05-13-2012, 06:20 PM
I agree Minni. Maybe he had her wrapped up and Bwana took control and decided that there was too much evidence and did it his way instead. Just possible IMO

kiwi50
05-13-2012, 06:40 PM
Has GBC and Alison sold a family property recently? I find it odd that a "so called top agent" would rent a house.

Also find it strange that children would be at a sleepover on a school night. Surely GBC would have been able to get children ready for school. Wasn't he the boss at Century 21, wouldn't have had to open the office, also wouldn't think it was a job that required you to be physically at the office early.

Rational
05-13-2012, 06:40 PM
[QUOTE=Futureinsight;
Do we even know if the lawyer hired by a female is even a criminal lawyer???[/QUOTE]

I think this is a great question. Does anyone know? It could be a corporate lawyer for all we know this could strengthen the 'business deal gone wrong' and/or 'financial problems'

minni
05-13-2012, 06:40 PM
I think wrapping her in a blanket would have screamed "GUILTY HUSBAND". He might have still been a little fond of her, but he wouldn't have want to leave her in any way that implicated him.



maybe GBC DID wrap her, then either he went back to get it, or maybe NBC went back to fix up GBC's mess? yet another reason for all the alleged back and forth through roundabout?

jendo
05-13-2012, 06:47 PM
I think that referred to an Ipswich politician's tweet? They probably received some info about how much the Kholo creek flooded. Locals (despite having to hide to avoid the ire of online woodpeckers) know how quickly the creeks here rise, and having had decent rainfall for a while, they tend to come up (and go down) quite quick. I wasn't near Kholo that weekend but when I went to Upper Brookfield mid-Saturday the creeks were suprisingly high and fast flowing after what seemed like not a huge amount of rain.

When you walk some of these creeks when they're dry, there are a lot of drop-offs into washed out pits of silt or gravel where the majority of flow goes - and they're bone dry and look like they'd never flood in a million years. Someone could conceivably think they look like a ready made grave and place a body in there covered with rocks..without the benefit of current rain that could look like a long term option. Then when it rains a lot, that's going to be the first place to get unsettled by the water. Total guess, but if a hole's been mentioned, it could be along those lines.

I think someone from right near the bridge confirmed things were fast-flowing there...if Allison's body was upstream, being moved by the water is totally plausible. Coming to rest where the bridge pylons create current / backwash might also be expeceted - that's where a lot of the larger floating debris often ends up (not meaning to use the term in the same sentence as poor Allison) rather than going into the river.

The upper reach of Kholo creek runs directly behind my house and I can confirm that it is usually just a very small running creek where I am in dry weather, but after a day or two of good rain I can definitely confirm that the water level can rise CONSIDERABLY and VERY quickly. My house is a fair distance from the creek itself but once it comes up I can hear the flow 'roaring' (meaning a LOT OF WATER is passing through at a fast rate). It can be quite surprising just how much water rushes through in a short space of time. IMO definitely enough water to wash a body out of any original position.

Thinking
05-13-2012, 06:55 PM
Morning all,

So does anyone know if GBC is going to work these days? Surely he wouldn't be dealing with any clients. He seems to be in a kind of hellish limbo. That business can't survive this, I wonder who is running it.

Couldbe
05-13-2012, 06:57 PM
The upper reach of Kholo creek runs directly behind my house and I can confirm that it is usually just a very small running creek where I am in dry weather, but after a day or two of good rain I can definitely confirm that the water level can rise CONSIDERABLY and VERY quickly. My house is a fair distance from the creek itself but once it comes up I can hear the flow 'roaring' (meaning a LOT OF WATER is passing through at a fast rate). It can be quite surprising just how much water rushes through in a short space of time. IMO definitely enough water to wash a body out of any original position.

Where would the water flow from; would it have anything to do with the Wivenhoe Dam? Thank you

Thinking
05-13-2012, 07:00 PM
I think the point you're missing is no ne cares if you're laughing or not, and aren't seeking your thanks. Judging by your online demeanour the guess would be you haven't laughed or thanked someone in real life for quite a long time. Over-using emoticons doesn't justify your opinion over others. Despite the vibe you give out, most on here would support your right to an opinion. But the sheer rudeness and nastiness: 'Give it away. Now'.

Couldn't have said it better myself. We certainly do support your right to an opinion truth_morph and would be interested to see some sleuthing done by your good self. There doesn't appear to have been any significant attempt to date. Show us your stuff super-sleuth, clearly you believe you are the expert :)

jendo
05-13-2012, 07:06 PM
Where would the water flow from; would it have anything to do with the Wivenhoe Dam? Thank you

No, not from Wivenhoe. Several creeks feed into Kholo creek including Camerons ck, Little Ugly ck and Flaggy ck. All are rain-fed from the mountains behind Mt Crosby.

coolcat
05-13-2012, 07:12 PM
I find the quote in this article very intriguing - the part where Allison's sister, Vanessa Fowler says that Gerard will have to step up now and fulfil both roles for his daughters. This doesn't sound to me as if the family believes that he is guilty. Vanessa is the same person who vowed at the funeral that justice would be found for Allison.
Are we all on the wrong track?

I read Vanessa's Quote to mean - Gerard will have to raise the children on his own now which will be a struggle for him seeing as though he did nothing for them most of their lives because Allison had to give up everything to raise them because you wouldn't! ...... (if he doesn't go to Jail)

True
05-13-2012, 07:25 PM
:fence:
maybe GBC DID wrap her, then either he went back to get it, or maybe NBC went back to fix up GBC's mess? yet another reason for all the alleged back and forth through roundabout?

Yes. Perp would be likely to grab a blanket to wrap her in initially. Maybe they did and maybe went back to retrieve. A blanket known to come from home of Perp or someone he knew might have been an "oh ****!" after thought.

It would also leave fibre evidence or collect it :)

BUT if he were thinking calm and rationally and knew his crime investigation techniques, he wouldn't have used a blanket....interesting

Limaes
05-13-2012, 07:29 PM
ABC and NBC come up as registered, but not GBC. Can anyone think of a reason why GBC wouldn't come up in a search as a registered real estate agent?

Sorry correction - he does come up - just that Baden Clay is not hyphenated.

Thanks for that...I didn't think to hyphenate the names. EBC must have stood down from her role.

Limaes
05-13-2012, 07:37 PM
You would think that she was wrapped or placed in something before removing her (sounds horrible I know). She had to have been transported by car and he/they couldn't take the chance of someone seeing her in the back. It would have been an awful task undertaken only by someone saving their own arse. That was their only priority. It also doesn't show remorse imo.

coolcat
05-13-2012, 07:39 PM
lol yes.

There's a telling blog entry here: http://www.expertrealestate.blogspot.com.au/2008_11_01_archive.html
_________
Mr Mum!
27.11.08 The past week I have been trying to do my best impersonation of my dear wife – and struggling! Allison turned the big “four-o” earlier this year and to mark the occasion she and her best friend have taken a week off at the Golden Door health spa. Whilst she has been enjoying the rest and quietude, I have been trying to manage the house and transport my three girls to all of their activities – and I am knackered! It’s a bit of a cliché that most men have no idea how hard it is to run a household, and I thought that I was pretty in tune with the day-to-day routine, but I can honestly say that this week has given me a real insight into the challenges of managing a family. Waking up, getting dressed, having breakfast, making lunches, getting to school, collecting from school, bath, cook dinner, eat dinner, homework, teeth, bed! And that doesn’t include any extracurricular activities like ballet, swimming and music! And, I haven’t done any vacuuming, dusting, cleaning or a single load of washing!

I also came across this one aswell on the same blog site...About Fathers!

http://www.expertrealestate.blogspot.com.au/2008_09_01_archive.html

jendo
05-13-2012, 07:40 PM
NBC and EBC have 2 mortgages over their property at Kenmore taken out in 2005 for a total secured amount of $300,000 - exactly the same amount we've heard that GBC apparently borrowed recently? To pay back perhaps? Coincidence?

Limaes
05-13-2012, 07:46 PM
About TM...we don't know who else the Qp have spoken to, but we know she was interviewed THREE times and one of those times for FOUR hours...and then lawyered up. I think this is pretty relevant and she knows something.

She may have been the one to contact them...who knows? She is not the woman seen at Nigelaine's house and whoever that woman is has been unfairly cast in a negative light on another website.

When an arrest/s has been made and this goes to court, we will hear more about TM and her role in this.

coolcat
05-13-2012, 07:50 PM
lol yes.

There's a telling blog entry here: http://www.expertrealestate.blogspot.com.au/2008_11_01_archive.html
_________
Mr Mum!
27.11.08 The past week I have been trying to do my best impersonation of my dear wife – and struggling! Allison turned the big “four-o” earlier this year and to mark the occasion she and her best friend have taken a week off at the Golden Door health spa. Whilst she has been enjoying the rest and quietude, I have been trying to manage the house and transport my three girls to all of their activities – and I am knackered! It’s a bit of a cliché that most men have no idea how hard it is to run a household, and I thought that I was pretty in tune with the day-to-day routine, but I can honestly say that this week has given me a real insight into the challenges of managing a family. Waking up, getting dressed, having breakfast, making lunches, getting to school, collecting from school, bath, cook dinner, eat dinner, homework, teeth, bed! And that doesn’t include any extracurricular activities like ballet, swimming and music! And, I haven’t done any vacuuming, dusting, cleaning or a single load of washing!

I also found this quite interesting on the same link as above..Actually there is quite a few interesting things to be learned about GBC??...I wonder what Peter is thinking about GBC now and if Peter is that good a Mate that he Knows something?

"Now Pete is not your average friend, he’s the kind of guy you’d want around if you were stranded on a desert island – honest, genuine, intelligent, humorous …. a lot like me really! The great thing about Pete (apart from the free ticket I manage to “score” each year!), though, is that we are comfortable in each other’s company, so we don’t have to make small talk just for the sake of it. We can sit in contented, companionable silence for hours. In fact, we’ve both been known to fall asleep occasionally, wake with a sheepish grin and then continue to enjoy the “action” out in the middle with the banter of the ABC radio commentary team wired into the off ear so we can still communicate with each other should the desire arise. "

ActusReus
05-13-2012, 07:55 PM
Hi

I've been following this for a while and decided to put my two cents worth in.

I think that there is a lot of information floating about that may not be entirely relevant. If you look closely at any persons life you will find inevitably find skeletons in the cupboard.

IMO there are a few key things that are important:

1. The movement of the family vehicles on the night in question. QPS are clearly focussing on this and therefore we can make an assumption that the evidence doesn't match the story first provided to them.

2. GBC has worked out early on that he is in the frame for this and hence his solicitor instructing a Barrister. Generally barristers are not instructed unless you are fairly certain a court appearance is on the cards.

3. The lack of police comment over the last week. Early on press conferences/statements were we being issued quite regularly. IMO QPS now believe they have enough information from the general public and are waiting on forensics to validate the evidence already collected. The behavior of any POI will be interesting to follow now that police are close to an arrest.

Anyway that's my take on the current situation.

Fuskier
05-13-2012, 07:57 PM
NBC and EBC have 2 mortgages over their property at Kenmore taken out in 2005 for a total secured amount of $300,000 - exactly the same amount we've heard that GBC apparently borrowed recently? To pay back perhaps? Coincidence?
I wonder if QPS know about this? Were they at risk of losing a substantial amount of money, maybe their own house if a divorce happened?

CJ60
05-13-2012, 07:57 PM
:fence:

Yes. Perp would be likely to grab a blanket to wrap her in initially. Maybe they did and maybe went back to retrieve. A blanket known to come from home of Perp or someone he knew might have been an "oh ****!" after thought.

It would also leave fibre evidence or collect it :)

BUT if he were thinking calm and rationally and knew his crime investigation techniques, he wouldn't have used a blanket....interesting

There has been some speculation about something being dumped in the industrial bins near that roundabout. Couldn't be the murder weapon if it was the back of someone's hand! What about a blanket? I can't imagine driving around in a car without covering Allison. I agree - wouldn't leave it at the site. Maybe couldn't face taking it home - or maybe it had been contaminated with soil from where they left Allison. Just speculating!

marlywings
05-13-2012, 07:59 PM
The upper reach of Kholo creek runs directly behind my house and I can confirm that it is usually just a very small running creek where I am in dry weather, but after a day or two of good rain I can definitely confirm that the water level can rise CONSIDERABLY and VERY quickly. My house is a fair distance from the creek itself but once it comes up I can hear the flow 'roaring' (meaning a LOT OF WATER is passing through at a fast rate). It can be quite surprising just how much water rushes through in a short space of time. IMO definitely enough water to wash a body out of any original position.


No, not from Wivenhoe. Several creeks feed into Kholo creek including Camerons ck, Little Ugly ck and Flaggy ck. All are rain-fed from the mountains behind Mt Crosby.

So if all this water is passing through at such a fast rate, this could also mean a body placed quite a long distance, well up stream, could be brought down by the water to where Allison's body was found. The Little Ugly Creek you mentioned, going by maps, seems to flow right through that State Forest.

It just seems to me dumping her body somewhere near that scout camp would be a bit of a too obvious place...considering the familys scout connections.

A State Forest would be a better hiding place?? What sort of access or entrance points does that forest have??

coolcat
05-13-2012, 08:05 PM
In light of Greg's post re: computer evidence, I am starting to again lean very strongly towards the theory that Allison stumbled upon some shady business dealings that may have had something to do with her or her children...insurance seems probable especially with the '13 month' posts going around earlier (someone said ABC policy had just reached the 13 month mark?) or some scheme to access money entitled to her children maybe? I think its possible she confronted him and when you consider the reports of previous DV, then.......well, we all know the rest.
It could also be possible GBC was conspiring with father or 'dodgy business partner/co-conspirator' of some kind in a shady business deal, someone who would also want to silence her? We talked before about how family and loved ones might possibly cover up or help some who's committed murder, but many of us have trouble believing that could happen (even though it does)...so it makes more sense to me that greed would encourage a 'business partner' to help cover up the crime and save their own arse too!

I also metioned this before...I think the reason behind the Dickies requesting monies donated to a Trust for the girls was because perhaps GBC had accessed Money that was meant for the Girls education - in order to get him out of financial trouble...I think maybe Allison had found this out and confronted him about it and perhaps a violent altercation arupted and Allison was dealt a Murderous "Love Tap" ( I hate that term By the Way?)

I think this is going to all lead to Finances because my impression of the BC's is that they are all about appearing "ABOVE EVERYONE" I get this from all of the Blogs and Bio's that I have read about every single one of them.

I haven't really come accross anything where they have tried to relate to the average person...They don't want to come over as being ordinary - It is all about Wealth and Connections - If it wasn't then they wouldn't of felt that they needed to change there name to "Baden- Clay" if they were happy with being who they were and getting by on there own Merit they would of simply stayed with just plain old "Clay".....

If this family are found to be innocent it still won't change how people feel about them now...It will open people's eyes...We now know that they are "Frauds" and "would be if they could be's" ..All of the above is MOO!

Isadora
05-13-2012, 08:06 PM
yes - you'd kinda take that as a given, being married and all.

Makes me wonder what the actual question was. Sounded defensive, like it was in response to asking if GBC was involved. In which case the "he loved her" stuff might be a deflection away from answering directly.


Disco ;)


No, not from Wivenhoe. Several creeks feed into Kholo creek including Camerons ck, Little Ugly ck and Flaggy ck. All are rain-fed from the mountains behind Mt Crosby.


I still maintain what I stated on the 5th re body coming down from Flaggy Ck. It's well known that the creek was used as a watering hole for cattle and flows directly into Kholo Ck where Alisons body was found. The area is very close to the scouting ground and is very private.
Re mistress, I think there are other players here apart from the couple who have been identified here and on other forums. Maybe his current mistress had knowledge of empty properties that fit the bill. I.e seclusion, area, waterway.
Can I just add that I joined this forum only when this murder occurred. I have enjoyed reading ALL the posts. <modsnip> I agree that it is a tragedy for those girls and Alisons parents and friends. I feel very deeply about how her body was left to rot in the water for that amt of time. No-one deserves that. <modsnip>.

marlywings
05-13-2012, 08:13 PM
I'm curious to know from any Brisbanites whether this matter is the topic of much talkback radio, or is it sort of off limits?

I don't listen to a lot of radio but I'd presume the same embargoes apply to radio as it seems to be with other areas of media.

I did find this recording from a Bris radio site when they spoke to a forensic doctor although she's mostly speaking about forensics tests done following Bali bomb. Still it's very interesting & worth a listen....


While police wait for forensic testing on the Baden-Clay case, Moyd and Loretta asked Dr Linzi Wilson-Wilde why forensic testing takes so long to get back and what exactly are they doing during the tests?

http://www.4bc.com.au/blogs/4bc-blog/forensic-testing/20120510-1yem4.html

Greg
05-13-2012, 08:14 PM
Nigelaine has a business address in Wavell Heights. Don't know if BWANAS own the property. It is an insurance business.

lol theres another alarm bell for me the BWANA is into insurance.........

CJ60
05-13-2012, 08:19 PM
I also metioned this before...I think the reason behind the Dickies requesting monies donated to a Trust for the girls was because perhaps GBC had accessed Money that was meant for the Girls education - in order to get him out of financial trouble...I think maybe Allison had found this out and confronted him about it and perhaps a violent altercation arupted and Allison was dealt a Murderous "Love Tap" ( I hate that term By the Way?)

I think this is going to all lead to Finances because my impression of the BC's is that they are all about appearing "ABOVE EVERYONE" I get this from all of the Blogs and Bio's that I have read about every single one of them.

I haven't really come accross anything where they have tried to relate to the average person...They don't want to come over as being ordinary - It is all about Wealth and Connections - If it wasn't then they wouldn't of felt that they needed to change there name to "Baden- Clay" if they were happy with being who they were and getting by on there own Merit they would of simply stayed with just plain old "Clay".....

If this family are found to be innocent it still won't change how people feel about them now...It will open people's eyes...We now know that they are "Frauds" and "would be if they could be's" ..All of the above is MOO!

I think you are right on the money - literally!

IMO Allison was over the 'mistress' - the affair, 'on' or 'off' had been going on for a while. They stayed together for the kids sake/ keep up appearances? Even with possible DV?? Man - we can learn a lesson just from this. If your hubby gives you a backhander - time to pack up and leave.

IMO has to be about money. Allison was working for the business up until recently; moved on - training with Pathways. If Allison had decided 'enough - I want out' if he was the high flier he claimed to be - money wouldn't be an issue - split the assets ( at their age, you would have expected them to have assets!!) and go. But there doesn't appear to be a lot of money! So Allison wanting to leave, has custody of the children - IMO would be enough to tip him over.

I have seen a number of marriages break up - mortgaged up to the hilt - and the straw that breaks the camels back - finances. JMO

Fuskier
05-13-2012, 08:32 PM
I also metioned this before...I think the reason behind the Dickies requesting monies donated to a Trust for the girls was because perhaps GBC had accessed Money that was meant for the Girls education - in order to get him out of financial trouble...I think maybe Allison had found this out and confronted him about it and perhaps a violent altercation arupted and Allison was dealt a Murderous "Love Tap" ( I hate that term By the Way?)

I think this is going to all lead to Finances because my impression of the BC's is that they are all about appearing "ABOVE EVERYONE" I get this from all of the Blogs and Bio's that I have read about every single one of them.

I haven't really come accross anything where they have tried to relate to the average person...They don't want to come over as being ordinary - It is all about Wealth and Connections - If it wasn't then they wouldn't of felt that they needed to change there name to "Baden- Clay" if they were happy with being who they were and getting by on there own Merit they would of simply stayed with just plain old "Clay".....

If this family are found to be innocent it still won't change how people feel about them now...It will open people's eyes...We now know that they are "Frauds" and "would be if they could be's" ..All of the above is MOO!
I agreed with MINNI's blog earlier, but the link did not work. I agree with COOLCAT and MINNI that the financial angle could provide motive. More than one person had a lot to lose if Allison divorced and gained custody of the three girls. By her death they may gain an Insurance payout of approx $600,000 (?), keep the BC Snr house, not have to divide finances, no child support payments, custody of the 3 girls without Allison being in the way(?) GBC could legitimize his current relationship and they could continue their life 'as normal'. IMO If this scenario is at all close, then it shows callous disregard for Allison's life and her significance to the girls as their mother. It shows callous disregard for the girls' own separate relationship with their own mother. Hypothetically, if there was a degree of premeditation along these lines, we could be looking at familial psychopathy.

Karo
05-13-2012, 08:35 PM
Divorce is a much better option if one is unhappy in a marriage.

Rational
05-13-2012, 08:40 PM
I agreed with MINNI's blog earlier, but the link did not work. I agree with COOLCAT and MINNI that the financial angle could provide motive. More than one person had a lot to lose if Allison divorced and gained custody of the three girls. By her death they may gain an Insurance payout of approx $600,000 (?), keep the BC Snr house, not have to divide finances, no child support payments, custody of the 3 girls without Allison being in the way(?) GBC could legitimize his current relationship and they could continue their life 'as normal'. IMO If this scenario is at all close, then it shows callous disregard for Allison's life and her significance to the girls as their mother. It shows callous disregard for the girls' own separate relationship with their own mother. Hypothetically, if there was a degree of premeditation along these lines, we could be looking at familial psychopathy.

But instead pay all that money to the legal defence team!! Not very clever. For the girls sake they would be better to just fess up and at least leave them something. No wonder the Dickies established a trust fund. At least that cannot be touched for paying off debts and lawyers. All of course IMHO

coolcat
05-13-2012, 08:42 PM
Has GBC and Alison sold a family property recently? I find it odd that a "so called top agent" would rent a house.

Also find it strange that children would be at a sleepover on a school night. Surely GBC would have been able to get children ready for school. Wasn't he the boss at Century 21, wouldn't have had to open the office, also wouldn't think it was a job that required you to be physically at the office early.

There was a member who posted back in thread 1 or 2 that explained who owned that house that GBC and ABC rent and also the one's around it...From memory that house or the one close by on the Hill???? belongs to the parents of infamous Daniel Tzvetkoff...He did go into quite a bit of detail from memory of the homes in that immediate area...I just can't remember what it was (Sorry) If you feel like trawling back through it, I am pretty sure it is in thread 2??

Whoever posted it was a local all of their lives or their parents are??

If you can be bothered to look it would be worth posting again?

Keyboredom
05-13-2012, 08:51 PM
There was a member who posted back in thread 1 or 2 that explained who owned that house that GBC and ABC rent and also the one's around it...From memory that house or the one close by on the Hill???? belongs to the parents of infamous Daniel Tzvetkoff...He did go into quite a bit of detail from memory of the homes in that immediate area...I just can't remember what it was (Sorry) If you feel like trawling back through it, I am pretty sure it is in thread 2??

Whoever posted it was a local all of their lives or their parents are??

If you can be bothered to look it would be worth posting again?

That might have been me. The house the BC's are in was on the original block of land that the Child Care Centre was then built on. Opposite them is a house that Daniel Tzvetkoff's parents brought from him when he encountered a few 'financial issues' (he's not really relevant to the case so I guess I shouldn't mention him, although the occupants of the house looking down on the BC house would have a decent vantage point and possibly hear things on nights with minimal traffic)

I don't know anything about the Baden-Clay's real estate interests, except that he unsuccessfully tried to purchase a particular local house, probably to set up a real esate office as it was in a main road location. He was beaten to it by someone with a better offer.

I also think the guy is a lot of talk and it's not surprising he couldn't afford to buy a house, if this is the case. His real estate methods strike me as puffery and all a bit hollow compared to the hard core old school successful property salespeople/offices. An old mate of mine running a successful franchise said it is all about hard work and foot slogging, not websites (other than realestate.com.au) and blogs. I get the idea GBC wasn't into the hard work, and possibly thought property was all about kissing babies and shaking hands, and writing about himself a lot.

minni
05-13-2012, 08:53 PM
I wonder if QPS know about this? Were they at risk of losing a substantial amount of money, maybe their own house if a divorce happened?

i reckon they would know that plus a hell of a lot more about this family

HocusFocus
05-13-2012, 08:53 PM
I can't stop thinking about the position of the body.
My apologies if I am way off here, but someone posted footage from channel 10 a few threads back. It apparently showed the position of the body. I haven't been able to watch it as I'm on my iPhone and it won't load on here.
It was described that she was on her side with one arm stretched above her head.
Now if someone was hiding a body - dumping it in a dry creek bed or anywhere else, wouldn't they position the arms and legs together - arms by side or in front of the chest? You wouldn't want any stray limbs sticking out (sorry that sounds so awful!). So my thoughts are that the body has moved shortly after being dumped, or dumped well after being killed when rigor has set in (apparently reaches full rigor mortis around 12 hours after death.
Maybe being in water for so long changes this though.
Also sorry if this has aleady been brought up, I'm frantically trying to keep up!!

mountainhigh
05-13-2012, 08:56 PM
Its a shame that no sensitivity was shown in the disposal of abc's body.

There is no way anyone in their right mind can argue with that comment, and whilst 18 people thanked you for this comment, there is also no evidence to suggest that any of the 'women' had anything to do with evil act.

minni
05-13-2012, 08:57 PM
There has been some speculation about something being dumped in the industrial bins near that roundabout. Couldn't be the murder weapon if it was the back of someone's hand! What about a blanket? I can't imagine driving around in a car without covering Allison. I agree - wouldn't leave it at the site. Maybe couldn't face taking it home - or maybe it had been contaminated with soil from where they left Allison. Just speculating!

that was me...I got the feeling that the police may have seen some activity or cars in the village carpark, because on the CCTV you can see a section of carpark, which got me thinking about the bins out the back. Its possible something was put in them, or taken out again after change of heart, or something was just put there whilst a plan was made? blanket seems like a good possibility (my first thought was worse...perhaps Allison had been placed there temporarily, but it was logically pointed out how difficult it would be to not only get something large in the bin (sorry) but more so to get something back out)

minni
05-13-2012, 08:58 PM
So if all this water is passing through at such a fast rate, this could also mean a body placed quite a long distance, well up stream, could be brought down by the water to where Allison's body was found. The Little Ugly Creek you mentioned, going by maps, seems to flow right through that State Forest.

It just seems to me dumping her body somewhere near that scout camp would be a bit of a too obvious place...considering the familys scout connections.

A State Forest would be a better hiding place?? What sort of access or entrance points does that forest have??

the autopsy will reveal if the body was moved....hope we find out soon

marlywings
05-13-2012, 08:59 PM
they would know

Wondering just how much the computers will tell police....as well as the "shredded papers"....

possumheart
05-13-2012, 08:59 PM
There was a member who posted back in thread 1 or 2 that explained who owned that house that GBC and ABC rent and also the one's around it...From memory that house or the one close by on the Hill???? belongs to the parents of infamous Daniel Tzvetkoff...He did go into quite a bit of detail from memory of the homes in that immediate area...I just can't remember what it was (Sorry) If you feel like trawling back through it, I am pretty sure it is in thread 2??

Whoever posted it was a local all of their lives or their parents are??

If you can be bothered to look it would be worth posting again?

How bizarre

UnfoldingTruth
05-13-2012, 09:18 PM
It also makes me angry with all of you on here defending people named,insinuated etc. If these people are reading this blog, why don't you post a quick message or why not go to the media and make a statement that takes away any implications.?????? It is in your hands to clear up any speculation.


cranky pants on today.

For one thing those people may not be reading and I don't think the onus is on them to explain anything to us who are speculating on them. Yes they do have the onus to tell all that they know to Police, but as for the rest of us..not. I also feel just as others are outright accusing and treating as fact those that are named or insinuated here as fact they comitted crime, others have the right to put forward suggestions or thought that they don't believe it to be so.

CJ60
05-13-2012, 09:19 PM
I can't stop thinking about the position of the body.
My apologies if I am way off here, but someone posted footage from channel 10 a few threads back. It apparently showed the position of the body. I haven't been able to watch it as I'm on my iPhone and it won't load on here.
It was described that she was on her side with one arm stretched above her head.
Now if someone was hiding a body - dumping it in a dry creek bed or anywhere else, wouldn't they position the arms and legs together - arms by side or in front of the chest? You wouldn't want any stray limbs sticking out (sorry that sounds so awful!). So my thoughts are that the body has moved shortly after being dumped, or dumped well after being killed when rigor has set in (apparently reaches full rigor mortis around 12 hours after death.
Maybe being in water for so long changes this though.
Also sorry this has been brought up, I'm frantically trying to keep up!!

I have googled some dreadful things after joining this forum. I think I read somewhere that the process reverses itself? I'm no expert, but there are some very knowledgable people on this forum - so when they read your post, they will be able to explain far better than I. And the changes that happen after being in water so long..... I had nightmares after googling that, especially when an image came up.

UnfoldingTruth
05-13-2012, 09:24 PM
Tried to post on this last night, but seems the forum was down..

Thank God for Hawkins!

I want to say again caution has to be exercised given this thread does not have the full information.

I think the reason why the police came immediately was likely because it was clear that something had gone down at the house. (the family home of A & G). GBC made a 000 call because it was obvious something violent/critical had occurred. NOT because his wife was an hour late back from her morning walk. Yes, it could have been part of the "disposal" plan... Or it could be that he knew nothing...

It is necessary for the QP to have all the bows tied.

I suggest that GBC isn't the killer but he knows & the QPS know who is. It just requires ensuring it is proven...

GBC profiles not as the perpetrator but as someone who has secrets that he doesn't want made public. I think his connection with this (apart from his spouse) is business dealings or a crime of passion from the OW...

IF TW is the OW - she is highly passionate and driven... if she did it I would say it was accidental. Perhaps she drove the pajero with the body in it...dumped it & returned the car back... This is why doors were open etc. As for strength. Adrenaline does amazing things. Forensics will know if her body was immersed in water, or if she was under the bridge for some days. This is all known now.

If the killer is not known to "us" - I still suggest this is probably what happened. The family car was used to dispose of the body.

I think also that GBC was living with his parents - and thus he has an alibi. However, I am sure he knows the killer. GBC's skeletons will all be clanging in a closet about to open - thus he is bunkered down.

I think that the visit was to advise an arrest is imminent so the press are going to go crazy...



I have been coming to this thought for sometime also. I am not certain GBC is guilty as most seem to believe. I am not sure of course, and I in the beginning also was leaning towards him being it. I am not so sure now, there are some things that make me question. I have never outright accused on here regardless. Because we don't know and don't have the facts. And its not our jobs, the QPS are doing a fantastic job and hope they get the person/s responsible soon. I think its a matter of time.

As I have said previously, if not guilty, I do think GBC has some knowledge of what happened or at the least who is responsible. (I could be wrong). And I agree he may have stuff to hide that he does not want out there.

I have decided to take it easy on the posting of late. There has not been alot of facts coming out and have found it a little difficult to read the rehashing over of things and people picking apart every little thing of people involved to support the fact - they believe to be true. I am not having a dig at anyone here. People are entitled to say what they feel within reason. I guess its the fact some have hung drawn and quartered a couple of people in the case, and made as factual some things that are just opinions and theory..those things I don't mind so much its just when it turns all of a sudden to fact. Again I am not directing this at anyone, just my feelings- nothing more.

coolcat
05-13-2012, 09:29 PM
That might have been me. The house the BC's are in was on the original block of land that the Child Care Centre was then built on. Opposite them is a house that Daniel Tzvetkoff's parents brought from him when he encountered a few 'financial issues'.

I don't know anything about the Baden-Clay's real estate interests, except that he unsuccessfully tried to purchase a particular local house, probably to set up a real esate office. He was beaten to it by someone with a better offer.

I also think the guy is a lot of talk and it's not surprising he couldn't afford to buy a house, if this is the case. His real estate methods strike me as puffery and all a bit hollow compared to the hard core old school successful property salespeople/offices. An old mate of mine running a successful franchise said it is all about hard work and foot slogging, not websites (other than realestate.com.au) and blogs. I get the idea GBC wasn't into the hard work.

I have often wondered over the last few weeks what he has actually done with his money...ost of the properties he has sold oe are on the Market are over 350,000 the commission on these would be quite substantial - I know that he has had alot of staff in the past but even still with the Rental Role and Sales he would still be earning quite a bit - enough at least to have a mortgage on someting. It could be possible that the businees owns the house they live in and they pay rent back to the business - Some sort of tax thing...I am not an expert on how this works but am assuming that maybe the business can claim back the rent or the property in some way? Just a thought on why they possibly rent...It really does strike me as odd that they do rent though given that he promotes owning your own home.

I am also assuming that ABC would of earned a fair chunk of change in her position at Flight Centre as she was quite high up on the ladder - Where did that money go if it wasn't invested in property...I wonder if her Superannuation was worth quite a bit and this is what GBC had planned to collect upon her death...I am assuming that she made GBC the benificiary to this?

Zorro
05-13-2012, 09:38 PM
1. where has any woman's name been mentioned in the media that now gives you right of way to be throwing her/their names about??

I think the public characters of this case are:
GBC and his sister OW (media)
NBC & EBC (parents and business associates of GBC)
ABC (deceased wife of GBC)
TM (former colleague of GBC)
The Dickies (parents of ABC)
SHE (children of ABC and GBC)

TM was identified cleary in the media by quoting directly from her C21 work website profile.

There has been a lot of wild speculation here about cars and faces in media video clips as well as former C21 people which as far as I can see amount to factual zip-zero in terms of the murder case.

I believe there will be an arrest later this week of one of the characters above because of the political reality that the police commissioner would have to brief the police minister and QPS media management can't swing from one Sunday newspaper suggesting an arrest is imminent to the next Sunday without an arrest. I think there will be charges laid against at least one of the other characters above for their part.

factfinda
05-13-2012, 09:38 PM
1. where has any woman's name been mentioned in the media that now gives you right of way to be throwing her/their names about??

2. No point about complaining to media outlets as you have suggested because I don't believe any of them have once printed a name??

3. this is not about social media getting a bad wrap, this is about the fact that many in here think its 'ok' to mention names or initialls when these people's names have not been made public..

4. "Sensitiivity for livliehoods - well don't read it!"
what sort of comment is that even supposed to be?? I am sure the women you are mentioning very freely on this forum are not worried about themselves reading it, but perhaps its crossed their minds that they are worried about the people they sit next to at work, or thier friends and family, their neighbours, their children's friends and family etc etc etc etc etc..

I think if you were in their shoes you may have a largey different opinion on the throwing around of people's names that have not been reported in media or by the police..

whatever happened to the presumption of innocence until proven guilty! And nobody has even been charged yet??


I couldn't agree more. When this whole case is over I am sure there will be innocent people's names/initials who have been dragged through the mud and everyone's accusations will be on here for anyone to Google for many years to come.

marlywings
05-13-2012, 09:40 PM
whatever happened to the presumption of innocence until proven guilty! And nobody has even been charged yet??

I think it's fair to say the majority of people on here & in the wider community of Allison's are really just looking for answers.

Last night I was looking into "appearances" of people who've committed murders, been found guilty & subsequently sentenced. One of those I looked at was the "wild" looking Arthur Freeman, who I'm sure, most would remember.....threw his daughter over the side of a bridge in Vic.

In the sentencing of Freeman, Justice Paul Coghlan said the following...

“You brought the broader community into this case in a way that has been rarely, if ever, seen before. It offends our collective conscience.”

Yes, to date, no-one has been charged with Allison's murder but I think this "offends our collective conscience" explains why people are looking for those answers. At the same time, this shouldn't be used an excuse to throw around any old tom, dick or harry's name...who may not be in any way, shape or form connected to this case.

Bayside
05-13-2012, 09:40 PM
I have googled some dreadful things after joining this forum. I think I read somewhere that the process reverses itself? I'm no expert, but there are some very knowledgable people on this forum - so when they read your post, they will be able to explain far better than I. And the changes that happen after being in water so long..... I had nightmares after googling that, especially when an image came up.

I have seen a couple of pics of deceased bodies that have drowned. This isn’t something I like to look at as it sticks in my mind and these pics I saw have ever since.

Something I noticed and asked about was that in both pics the deceased had there arms up and knees bent. I asked why both were like that (not both drowned at same time).

In simple terms it was explained to me that was how they floated when riga mortise set in they stay in that position. Also the bodies which were both retrieved several days after drowning looked nothing like what the poor people looked like, I don’t know you could tell it was them. Both of these ended up being accidental drowning btw.

Keyboredom
05-13-2012, 09:43 PM
I have often wondered over the last few weeks what he has actually done with his money...ost of the properties he has sold oe are on the Market are over 350,000 the commission on these would be quite substantial - I know that he has had alot of staff in the past but even still with the Rental Role and Sales he would still be earning quite a bit - enough at least to have a mortgage on someting. It could be possible that the businees owns the house they live in and they pay rent back to the business - Some sort of tax thing...I am not an expert on how this works but am assuming that maybe the business can claim back the rent or the property in some way? Just a thought on why they possibly rent...It really does strike me as odd that they do rent though given that he promotes owning your own home.

I am also assuming that ABC would of earned a fair chunk of change in her position at Flight Centre as she was quite high up on the ladder - Where did that money go if it wasn't invested in property...I wonder if her Superannuation was worth quite a bit and this is what GBC had planned to collect upon her death...I am assuming that she made GBC the benificiary to this?

Not sure what his commission split was but the salesperson generally gets around 1-1.5% of the sale price, and the office/principal gets the remainder (the other 1-1.5%) Looking at sales on the property sites for the last couple of years, Century 21 Westside doesn't feature very often. Poor turnover coupled with a taste for the black Lexus, moving to large flash offices (which are not very visible and way off the main drag, completely at odds with the visibility most offices want) would be a bad mix. Not sure what the rental roll is like (I think Allison was listed as property management back in '08 and someone more junior on the recent site?). He'd be paying rent, some salaries for staff not on commission only, vehicle/s fuel etc, maintenance, accounting, dry cleaning the yellow jacket etc. I think it's easy to believe he wasn't/isn't very flush with cash. On top of his own issues the entire industry is in the crapper, compared to 5-7 years ago.

I'd say the "self made man" used every bit of money Allison brought into the relationship in pursuit of his dreams.

The house they are in is not owned by anyone associated with them or by a company they control, afaik. Even if he was financial enough to buy the property (which I think may be a single title containing both the house and child care centre, so he'd need $1.5M+) he probably wouldn't be able to legally claim deductions renting something that was not at arms length (ie. if he bought something purely as a tax dodge, the ATO would be a lot smarter than him when it came to tax time). The parents don't appear to be flush either if they have a $300K mortgage over the type of house they're in (purchased for $150k originally), I think Durness Street got pretty wet during the floods.

ynotdivein
05-13-2012, 09:45 PM
Bumping the original post for a refresher....



Thank you for joining Websleuths! :welcome3:


Please remember the following when discussing the Allison Baden-Clay case:
Websleuths is a moderated forum. We strive to discuss cases in a friendly environment.

Our rules can be reviewed here: The Rules (http://www.websleuths.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=159) (PLEASE make sure you know the rules!)


Currently, we are considering Allison's husband to be a suspected person of interest in this case. There is a possible second party involved per MSM and it is okay to discuss that aspect, but please refrain from accusing anyone of murder at this juncture. Speculating is one thing, accusing is another.


Thread 1 (http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=169529)

Thread 2 (http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=170913&page=46)
Thread 3 (http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=171159&page=18)
Thread 4 (http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=171285)

Thread 5 (http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=171505)

Thread 6 (http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=171751)



REMEMBER: No cutting and pasting of comments from other social or media websites. You may paraphrase and provide a link.

The only social media sites allowed are those belonging to the victim, Gerard Baden-Clay and any named (by law enforcement) POI or Suspect, or site created and devoted to the murder of Allison.


Media/Timeline Reference Thread: CLICK HERE (http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=7871813#post7871813)

minni
05-13-2012, 09:47 PM
Tried to post on this last night, but seems the forum was down..




I have been coming to this thought for sometime also. I am not certain GBC is guilty as most seem to believe. I am not sure of course, and I in the beginning also was leaning towards him being it. I am not so sure now, there are some things that make me question. I have never outright accused on here regardless. Because we don't know and don't have the facts. And its not our jobs, the QPS are doing a fantastic job and hope they get the person/s responsible soon. I think its a matter of time.

As I have said previously, if not guilty, I do think GBC has some knowledge of what happened or at the least who is responsible. (I could be wrong). And I agree he may have stuff to hide that he does not want out there.

I have decided to take it easy on the posting of late. There has not been alot of facts coming out and have found it a little difficult to read the rehashing over of things and people picking apart every little thing of people involved to support the fact - they believe to be true. I am not having a dig at anyone here. People are entitled to say what they feel within reason. I guess its the fact some have hung drawn and quartered a couple of people in the case, and made as factual some things that are just opinions and theory..those things I don't mind so much its just when it turns all of a sudden to fact. Again I am not directing this at anyone, just my feelings- nothing more.

thanks UnfoldingTruth...I have visited this idea a few times both on this forum and in my head. I'm sorry to say I have also been one of the first people to jump on the next theory bandwagon and see the possibilities in those theories too. I think about how I will feel about my comments if he is innocent. But agree that lately I find it hard to picture him in the act of both murdering and covering up. I don't know him..I just feel this way.

HocusFocus
05-13-2012, 09:56 PM
I have seen a couple of pics of deceased bodies that have drowned. This isn’t something I like to look at as it sticks in my mind and these pics I saw have ever since.

Something I noticed and asked about was that in both pics the deceased had there arms up and knees bent. I asked why both were like that (not both drowned at same time).

In simple terms it was explained to me that was how they floated when riga mortise set in they stay in that position. Also the bodies which were both retrieved several days after drowning looked nothing like what the poor people looked like, I don’t know you could tell it was them. Both of these ended up being accidental drowning btw.

Are you saying the body would still maintain the same position it was in when rigor mortis sets in?

UnfoldingTruth
05-13-2012, 09:56 PM
thanks UnfoldingTruth...I have visited this idea a few times both on this forum and in my head. I'm sorry to say I have also been one of the first people to jump on the next theory bandwagon and see the possibilities in those theories too. I think about how I will feel about my comments if he is innocent. But agree that lately I find it hard to picture him in the act of both murdering and covering up. I don't know him..I just feel this way.


Its easy to do, and I think we can all have our theories or be open to possibilites. Its just sometimes I think theory and speculation, have all of a sudden become fact at times.

Yes I try to keep in mind the possibilty of innocence. I imagine the hell one would be going though if you are innocent.

I definitely before I joined this forum was thinking guilt, but as time has gone on and a few little things have made me doubt a little and now think I am not so sure. I do have faith in QPS in solving this and I guess then our minds will be put to rest.

Zorro
05-13-2012, 10:01 PM
I agreed with MINNI's blog earlier, but the link did not work. I agree with COOLCAT and MINNI that the financial angle could provide motive. More than one person had a lot to lose if Allison divorced and gained custody of the three girls. By her death they may gain an Insurance payout of approx $600,000 (?), keep the BC Snr house, not have to divide finances, no child support payments, custody of the 3 girls without Allison being in the way(?) GBC could legitimize his current relationship and they could continue their life 'as normal'. IMO If this scenario is at all close, then it shows callous disregard for Allison's life and her significance to the girls as their mother. It shows callous disregard for the girls' own separate relationship with their own mother. Hypothetically, if there was a degree of premeditation along these lines, we could be looking at familial psychopathy.

I think pre-meditated murder for financial gain is very wild speculation. IMO this family is not sinister and is probably very conservative. They obviously value highly the link to the Baden-Powell name and feel they have some status in their community. A few minutes/hours of really bad judgement has wreaked a tragedy of huge proportions on all of them.

Humdinger
05-13-2012, 10:01 PM
As time goes on it makes me wonder if there really is more involved and I wonder what will come out at the end... I think we might be looking at a couple of seperate issues here? So obviously there's the murder of Allison but I wonder if the computers and shredded papers etc are going to to be related to something else?

I hope that an arrest is made this week, I hope that it's not GBC and I hope that those poor little darlins are coping and don't lose any more family...

coolcat
05-13-2012, 10:01 PM
Not sure what his commission split was but the salesperson generally gets around 1-1.5% of the sale price, and the office/principal gets the remainder (the other 1-1.5%) Looking at sales on the property sites for the last couple of years, Century 21 Westside doesn't feature very often. Poor turnover coupled with a taste for the black Lexus, moving to large flash offices (which are not very visible and way off the main drag, completely at odds with the visibility most offices want) would be a bad mix. Not sure what the rental roll is like (I think Allison was listed as property management back in '08 and someone more junior on the recent site?). He'd be paying rent, some salaries for staff not on commission only, vehicle/s fuel etc, maintenance, accounting, dry cleaning the yellow jacket etc. I think it's easy to believe he wasn't/isn't very flush with cash. On top of his own issues the entire industry is in the crapper, compared to 5-7 years ago.

I'd say the "self made man" used every bit of money Allison brought into the relationship in pursuit of his dreams.

The house they are in is not owned by anyone associated with them or by a company they control, afaik. Even if he was financial enough to buy the property (which I think may be a single title containing both the house and child care centre, so he'd need $1.5M+) he probably wouldn't be able to legally claim deductions renting something that was not at arms length (ie. if he bought something purely as a tax dodge, the ATO would be a lot smarter than him when it came to tax time). The parents don't appear to be flush either if they have a $300K mortgage over the type of house they're in (purchased for $150k originally), I think Durness Street got pretty wet during the floods.

About my theory on ABC's Superannuation do you think it was possible that given that she was quite high up on the Ladder at FC that it would be quite significant..Seems to me that she was pretty savvy when it came to business and that she was the Brain in the Family - so would imagine that her Superannuation was also well looked after - If she didn't make contributions to it herself she would still have enough I presume that would help someone out of financial problems??

This would depend on who she made beneficiary and then who would control it if it were to be put in trust for her daughters?

I am assuming that GBC would be beneficiary of the Super in which case he could well have a lot to gain from it....I know how much mine is worth at the moment and I am around the same age a bit younger by 2 years...If I was to die today my beneficiary would be quite comfortable for a while??

Alot of people these days contribute to Super instead of Life insurance because it is a safer option...If you stop paying Life insuarance (in most cases) you lose the lot although your Super still grows providing you still work or contribute plus the interest it earns - Minus Fees of course?

I am leaning towards Super for financial gain not so much Life Insurance as previously speculated upon....JMO..Of course.

plentyofnous
05-13-2012, 10:04 PM
Its easy to do, and I think we can all have our theories or be open to possibilites. Its just sometimes I think theory and speculation, have all of a sudden become fact at times.

Yes I try to keep in mind the possibilty of innocence. I imagine the hell one would be going though if you are innocent.

I definitely before I joined this forum was thinking guilt, but as time has gone on and a few little things have made me doubt a little and now think I am not so sure. I do have faith in QPS in solving this and I guess then our minds will be put to rest.

I agree with your comment. But it is interesting that a high profile Real Estate Business Owner with semmingly endless Business Contacts and associations, employees etc hasn t really had anyone come out of the woodwork and say anything positive about anything. For a high profile in a very affluent and educated area, he seems to have a very low profile. Thoughts

Humdinger
05-13-2012, 10:07 PM
I agree with your comment. But it is interesting that a high profile Real Estate Business Owner with semmingly endless Business Contacts and associations, employees etc hasn t really had anyone come out of the woodwork and say anything positive about anything. For a high profile in a very affluent and educated area, he seems to have a very low profile. Thoughts

Great point!!! I don't recall reading anything positive about GBC! You'd think that someone with his supposed social standing etc would have people standing up supporting him... Very interesting indeed!

Candarella
05-13-2012, 10:08 PM
Could of sworn I just drove passed GBC in Hillcrest driving white Prado. Any guesses on his registration. I am on stake out mode.

UnfoldingTruth
05-13-2012, 10:09 PM
I agree with your comment. But it is interesting that a high profile Real Estate Business Owner with semmingly endless Business Contacts and associations, employees etc hasn t really had anyone come out of the woodwork and say anything positive about anything. For a high profile in a very affluent and educated area, he seems to have a very low profile. Thoughts

yes its interesting. Maybe no-one is game to for one reason or another.

UnfoldingTruth
05-13-2012, 10:10 PM
Could of sworn I just drove passed GBC in Hillcrest driving white Prado. Any guesses on his registration. I am on stake out mode.

The white Prado has century 21 signage emblazoned across the back window..if thats any help. lol.. you probably wouldn't miss that.

CJ60
05-13-2012, 10:11 PM
I have seen a couple of pics of deceased bodies that have drowned. This isn’t something I like to look at as it sticks in my mind and these pics I saw have ever since.

Something I noticed and asked about was that in both pics the deceased had there arms up and knees bent. I asked why both were like that (not both drowned at same time).

In simple terms it was explained to me that was how they floated when riga mortise set in they stay in that position. Also the bodies which were both retrieved several days after drowning looked nothing like what the poor people looked like, I don’t know you could tell it was them. Both of these ended up being accidental drowning btw.

When it was stated that it would be hard to get forensic evidence from a person that had been in water, I found an image, and a description of what happens to the body. All I can say if anyone is curious, don't search. The image did not look human. I feel for the poor person that found Allison. I feel for the people that come across/ search for victims, and the horrific sights they see as part of their day to day lives. If I did this for a living, I would need counselling on a day to day basis. Many people have joined this forum because they have a moral conscience - they feel that what has happened to Allison is so wrong, and want justice. There have been many emotionally driven posts - this forum is up to Thread 7. It gives members support that there are good people out there, that feel the same way. If you don't want to read the emotive based posts, skip them.

But this has opened my eyes to so much more - I have an even greater appreciation for those out there at the front line. It has given me insight into the horrific things they see in searching for answers in order to bring the monsters that commit these terrible crimes to justice.

Cccclllaareb
05-13-2012, 10:12 PM
Great point!!! I don't recall reading anything positive about GBC! You'd think that someone with his supposed social standing etc would have people standing up supporting him... Very interesting indeed!

Perhaps no one wants to come forward to say anything positive juuuust in case.

UnfoldingTruth
05-13-2012, 10:13 PM
As time goes on it makes me wonder if there really is more involved and I wonder what will come out at the end... I think we might be looking at a couple of seperate issues here? So obviously there's the murder of Allison but I wonder if the computers and shredded papers etc are going to to be related to something else?

I hope that an arrest is made this week, I hope that it's not GBC and I hope that those poor little darlins are coping and don't lose any more family...

Yep. I do think similar. And something I have felt for awhile. But guess we will see. I hope and going by what Police have said, if they aren't just trying to make someone sweat, I think it will be this week.

I agree..I so hope for the kids sake their dad is not guilty and they will still have him round. They aare definitely going to need all the love and support they can get throughout the years as they deal with what has happened.

UnfoldingTruth
05-13-2012, 10:14 PM
Not so. In the event of proven innocent, then posters have the option to 'delete' posts so that the children may not read them in the future.

you only have 2 hours to delete, otherwise you need to ask a Mod to do so ..I believe.

And can you imagine how busy they will be if everyone on here asked them to do that!

Fuskier
05-13-2012, 10:15 PM
I couldn't agree more. When this whole case is over I am sure there will be innocent people's names/initials who have been dragged through the mud and everyone's accusations will be on here for anyone to Google for many years to come.
In the event of proven innocent, then posters have the option to 'delete' posts so the children may not read them in the future.

Rational
05-13-2012, 10:23 PM
Today marks two weeks since Allison was found. This is usually the timeframe for forensics to finalise results and DNA testing, so hopefully for everyone's sake there will be an arrest soon.

Fuskier
05-13-2012, 10:24 PM
But instead pay all that money to the legal defence team!! Not very clever. For the girls sake they would be better to just fess up and at least leave them something. No wonder the Dickies established a trust fund. At least that cannot be touched for paying off debts and lawyers. All of course IMHO
Further along the financial thread, in addition to Insurance benefits, Allison's Superannuation Funds may have a nominated beneficiary upon her death.
If it is proven that GBC and children are victims of a crime, then they could be eligible for Victims of Crime Compensation, approx. $100,000 (?) per person. This would pay the school fees. Further other family members may also be eligible for Victims of Crime Compensation.
QPS certainly need thorough investigation skills. Hope they gain the evidence needed to prove beyond reasonable doubt.

plentyofnous
05-13-2012, 10:31 PM
Just interested in your thoughts, Who here has reasonable doubt BC responsible ?

coolcat
05-13-2012, 10:32 PM
I think pre-meditated murder for financial gain is very wild speculation. IMO this family is not sinister and is probably very conservative. They obviously value highly the link to the Baden-Powell name and feel they have some status in their community. A few minutes/hours of really bad judgement has wreaked a tragedy of huge proportions on all of them.

I don't know if it would be Financial "GAIN" as such but I really do believe "IF" any of the family is involved in this it would be due to Financial Reasons...ie:- Hide Financial Mistakes or Prevent Possible Property Settlement?

Although, I don't think the possibility of Financial gain is "WILD" specualtion...Money makes people do crazy things to people especially if you think you are entitled to it or it is YOURS and know one else desrves it??

IMO

Elspeth
05-13-2012, 10:35 PM
In the event of proven innocent, then posters have the option to 'delete' posts so the children may not read them in the future.

Perhaps so... but in the case of the Joanna Yeates murder in the UK where the innocent landlord was ruthlessly slandered by the press and individuals...his legal counsel went on to successfully sue all parties involved as all public defamation had been of course recorded by his legal counsel...

possumheart
05-13-2012, 10:35 PM
Just interested in your thoughts, Who here has reasonable doubt BC responsible ?

me - there is not enough info yet

plentyofnous
05-13-2012, 10:36 PM
I don't know if it would be Financial "GAIN" as such but I really do believe "IF" any of the family is involved in this it would be due to Financial Reasons...ie:- Hide Financial Mistakes or Prevent Possible Property Settlement?

Although, I don't think the possibility of Financial gain is "WILD" specualtion...Money makes people do crazy things to people especially if you think you are entitled to it or it is YOURS and know one else desrves it??

IMO

It would take a very sick mind to do something this crazy when at the end of the day you are the most likely suspect, standing in front of the headlights with everything pointing to you, if he has, more of a sudden thing IMO where possibly kids, money , power threatened to be taken from him

mountainhigh
05-13-2012, 10:39 PM
In the event of proven innocent, then posters have the option to 'delete' posts so the children may not read them in the future.

slight technicality: you are not proven innocent. you ARE innocent until proven guilty in a democratic society...

plentyofnous
05-13-2012, 10:40 PM
Perhaps so... but in the case of the Joanna Yeates murder in the UK where the innocent landlord was ruthlessly slandered by the press and individuals...his legal counsel went on to successfully sue all parties involved as all public defamation had been of course recorded by his legal counsel...

Defamation is a very complex and expensive legal avenue where you need to prove actual loss/ damages in Aust, unlikely public opinion and Truthful, factual statements would end up there, IMO

plentyofnous
05-13-2012, 10:43 PM
slight technicality: you are not proven innocent. you ARE innocent until proven guilty in a democratic society...

The guy imprisoned for the Holland murder would respectfully disagree

minni
05-13-2012, 10:44 PM
I agree with your comment. But it is interesting that a high profile Real Estate Business Owner with semmingly endless Business Contacts and associations, employees etc hasn t really had anyone come out of the woodwork and say anything positive about anything. For a high profile in a very affluent and educated area, he seems to have a very low profile. Thoughts

that is quite interesting I agree. But it may be that his acquaintances and associates have been advised not to or don't feel its appropriate to comment unless he is specifically accused of something, as for close friends..I think they definantely would have been advised against it, and he must have some close friends (he went to Gold Coast with friends the other week and they must have been supportive and pretty damn close to him to do this?

mountainhigh
05-13-2012, 10:45 PM
Just interested in your thoughts, Who here has reasonable doubt BC responsible ?

as night follows day, i believe BC is involved. a reliable source has indicated on the 2nd person to be implicated is believed to be a woman (but is NOT any former employees/partners). a little closer to home.......

mountainhigh
05-13-2012, 10:47 PM
The guy imprisoned for the Holland murder would respectfully disagree

prisons are full of wrongly convicted people unfortunately.

minni
05-13-2012, 10:47 PM
Just interested in your thoughts, Who here has reasonable doubt BC responsible ?

me...given what little evidence there really is...I think its impossible to say with any certainty that he is guilty

itsthevibe
05-13-2012, 10:48 PM
Yeh I think its the business the money the marriage and talk of divorce the affair I think there lives were on fire!!! Pressures from all angles.. GBC having an affair to feel adequate, needed, important, powerful and in control cause in reality he had none!!!! He had no way out, pressure from his parents with his failing business venture there lively hood in retirement in question and ABC not wanting to keep losing money in his poor decisions or keep doing the hard yards with the business and life and marriage when GBC has again had an affair and lied!!!!

An explosive situation for anyone to be in and if neither of them was getting any personal counselling there whole world would have been spinning out of control while they put on up a front and a brave face "never complaining" to the community, friends Etc...

This isn't official, but on one of the early threads someone who IMO seemed quite credible, claimed they were close friends with people in Allison's circle and posted a few things about their situation, and one of them was that Allison and GBC were having counselling, and that part of the work they had to do as a couple was that they had to have a discussion every night. Possibly as a way to ensure they were communicating and staying in touch, and also sorting out issues promptly rather than letting them fester. Sounds feasible. If this is the case another reason for a raging argument could simply have been that Allison wanted to have the discussion and there were plenty of 'issues' to talk about, and GBC wanted to avoid the discussion altogether.

I have experienced something similar in 2 past relationships and in both cases my partners at the time would do almost anything not to discuss issues, and would go into rages if you tried to bring anything up. There was never a good time, there was never a nice or tactful or positive way to discuss things that would make them any more amenable. They simply did not want to hear about any problems that involved them having to change or do anything, just the very mention could cause a frightening reaction. This of course is not sustainable, there is only so long you can go sweeping things under the carpet and expecting your partner to say nothing.

plentyofnous
05-13-2012, 10:48 PM
that is quite interesting I agree. But it may be that his acquaintances and associates have been advised not to or don't feel its appropriate to comment unless he is specifically accused of something, as for close friends..I think they definantely would have been advised against it, and he must have some close friends (he went to Gold Coast with friends the other week and they must have been supportive and pretty damn close to him to do this?

If my friend, Business assoc was in a similar position, I would think I would be in a strong enough position to stick up for him, even it was only my opinion, I certainly ( if I invested ,000 s of $, would be close enough, ) wouldn t stand too far back, it is just interesting to me that no one has come out, no one, plenty for ABC ,which makes me think they were quite reclusive, private, the opposite to which his website portrays

coolcat
05-13-2012, 10:49 PM
Great point!!! I don't recall reading anything positive about GBC! You'd think that someone with his supposed social standing etc would have people standing up supporting him... Very interesting indeed!

Yes! Particularly the Guy mentioned in his Blog that I posted about not long ago today...GBC gave this guy such a huge wrap that you would think he would have something to say...but then again who is going to come out and say anything at all good or bad...I know I wouldn't want to associate myself in this in any WAY SHAPE or FORM......It really is nasty business that will forever be remembered...Particulary because of the way GBC has conducted himself. Even if GBC is found innocent, he hasn't appeared to be a genuine, grieving, concerned husband and the media has given him plenty of opportunity to do so......HE SHOULD OF BEEN AT THAT NEWS CONFERENCE with the Dickies despite his children or his apparent grief....He should of appealed to the public to help find his wife...I will never forget that he didn't do that and I am assuming that no one else will either.

To me and IMO "He simply didn't care enough" of that has how it has appeared to the Public??

minni
05-13-2012, 10:51 PM
I don't know if it would be Financial "GAIN" as such but I really do believe "IF" any of the family is involved in this it would be due to Financial Reasons...ie:- Hide Financial Mistakes or Prevent Possible Property Settlement?

Although, I don't think the possibility of Financial gain is "WILD" specualtion...Money makes people do crazy things to people especially if you think you are entitled to it or it is YOURS and know one else desrves it??

IMO

I am of same opinion...money causes a hell of lot of 'bad behaviour'

ActusReus
05-13-2012, 10:52 PM
Just found this post on what appears to be a blog by a local politician. Not knowing this fellow, I don't know how much weight to give his claim of up to 5 arrests being made by QPS?

http://paulgtully.blogspot.com.au/2012/05/how-long-more-till-police-pounce-on.html

Humdinger
05-13-2012, 10:54 PM
me...given what little evidence there really is...I think its impossible to say with any certainty that he is guilty

This! My gut and my head say 2 very different things... Basically, given the factual info I have, if I were a detective, I wouldn't be arresting him, or anyone for that matter.
Thankfully though, the real D's do have a lot more info and I have faith that QPS will be able to make an arrest!

CJ60
05-13-2012, 10:55 PM
I don't know if it would be Financial "GAIN" as such but I really do believe "IF" any of the family is involved in this it would be due to Financial Reasons...ie:- Hide Financial Mistakes or Prevent Possible Property Settlement?

Although, I don't think the possibility of Financial gain is "WILD" specualtion...Money makes people do crazy things to people especially if you think you are entitled to it or it is YOURS and know one else desrves it??

IMO

If GBC responsible, I don't think premeditated for financial gain - but finance may have been why this has happened. Barney that gets out of control due to money ( divorce, assets , kids) And you lash out in anger - bang!

If anything has been found on the hard drives that indicates pre med - well, whole different kettle of fish - but I think not at this stage.

And if there has been family involvement to cover up I think it would be more to do with family name than thinking of financial gain. JMO

coolcat
05-13-2012, 10:55 PM
When it was stated that it would be hard to get forensic evidence from a person that had been in water, I found an image, and a description of what happens to the body. All I can say if anyone is curious, don't search. The image did not look human. I feel for the poor person that found Allison. I feel for the people that come across/ search for victims, and the horrific sights they see as part of their day to day lives. If I did this for a living, I would need counselling on a day to day basis. Many people have joined this forum because they have a moral conscience - they feel that what has happened to Allison is so wrong, and want justice. There have been many emotionally driven posts - this forum is up to Thread 7. It gives members support that there are good people out there, that feel the same way. If you don't want to read the emotive based posts, skip them.

But this has opened my eyes to so much more - I have an even greater appreciation for those out there at the front line. It has given me insight into the horrific things they see in searching for answers in order to bring the monsters that commit these terrible crimes to justice.

I don't know that the body was washed there....I think if the current was as fast as locals say it gets that some of her clothes would of potentially washed off her? IMO

From memory I think I remember Police stating that a woman had been found wearing the clothes last reported being seen in? Something to that affect.

Surely if she was being dragged and at times lodged on debris alot of clothing would of been washed off or torn significantly? Just a thought.

I really believe that she was placed where found after the killing?

I am sorry if this sounds gruesome!

Zorro
05-13-2012, 10:57 PM
I don't know if it would be Financial "GAIN" as such but I really do believe "IF" any of the family is involved in this it would be due to Financial Reasons...ie:- Hide Financial Mistakes or Prevent Possible Property Settlement?

Although, I don't think the possibility of Financial gain is "WILD" specualtion...Money makes people do crazy things to people especially if you think you are entitled to it or it is YOURS and know one else desrves it??

IMO

What I think is wild speculations is to suggest premeditation along the lines of: "How about I/we kill ABC next Thursday night and then report her missing so we can claim insurance/superannuation." A highly unlikely scenario IMO especially as any payout is probably contingent on proving the insured person is actually deceased.

If a domestic argument that went down the "I'll financially ruin you and your business" responding rage may have got out of control but that is as close as I can get to some financial intrigue.

ozazure
05-13-2012, 10:59 PM
They can bide their time getting to the arrest. GBS isn't going anywhere fast, except perhaps if he decides to commit suicide.

I am hoping that the woman interviewed multiple times has got legal representation not directly in relation with Allison's murder - perhaps as a result of murky business matters and getting implicated in the days after. I would imagine after your first meeting with them, tough questions would have been asked and if you did not plan to cooperate you would need a lawyer, not meet repeatedly with police again and then get one. Could be wrong, maybe she is a lot better under pressure than GBC and didn't feel she needed one at the start. I just want Allison to have an ally even if she wasn't in life.

Be ace if we didn't have to go down the path of trying to scare posters about defamation charges again. Based on one case in the UK where the media is irresponsible and probably deserves suing at times. On the very long shot we are all a bunch of misguided idiots and GBC is another victim of this horrific crime, I am sure websleuths will be the last thing on his mind. This site represents the general consensus out there and his reputation will heal with time if warranted. The magnitude of their loss will mean he doesn't give a damn about whether the business survives, or he gets voted to the school council again.

itsthevibe
05-13-2012, 11:00 PM
Where are these?? I have been wanting to read more about all that's been reported on any other women involved in this case... There seems to be three seperate women that have been getting mixed up as one or something.... IMO (which i have some info on but limited and confused) there is:
1 Ex Business partner female which has been only interviewed once for 4hours and is owed a very large amount of money
2 female identified as ex employee potentially Working for Remax??
3 current employee TM profiled on meet the team and has been seen at the residence of the BC family by media, which doesn't make sense if she has a lawyer
4 well there really could be more!!! Ladies we are not even aware of...

Either 2 or 3 has been interviewed 3 times and has hired a lawyer.. My thoughts is 2... But need way more info...
And well 1 could have hired a lawyer as they are owed a very large sum of money and well the business isn't going to improve anytime soon now it's only going to get worse...
Do we even know if the lawyer hired by a female is even a criminal lawyer???

I think there are only 2 - 1 a former business partner/colleague who is not involved in anything now, and 2 a lady friend, former employee who is the unsubstantiated mistress or former mistress, who has been interviewed by police several times and who has now engaged a lawyer.

Either way we shouldnt be using names, initials, approximate or specific home address references, or current workplaces, to respect their privacy and to comply with forum rules. At this point we are not certain of some of the details including if No 2 was a mistress, and the police questioning may have simply been to get as much information on GBC and family from someone close to him outside the family. (not due to involvement in the crime).

minni
05-13-2012, 11:00 PM
If my friend, Business assoc was in a similar position, I would think I would be in a strong enough position to stick up for him, even it was only my opinion, I certainly ( if I invested ,000 s of $, would be close enough, ) wouldn t stand too far back, it is just interesting to me that no one has come out, no one, plenty for ABC ,which makes me think they were quite reclusive, private, the opposite to which his website portrays

yeah maybe it is a little odd... I guess people JUST AREN'T SURE ENOUGH to make that call otherwise they would have....as for ABC, she is the victim, not a suspect, and it makes sense for her to have a lot of public support. We KNOW what happened to her and want to find justice, and her friends and family want to voice their love and admiration for the person she was. With all the speculation on how and why she died, people close to main POI probably just aren't sure how to approach it? I remember at first there WAS supportive gestures from political friends/acquaintances of his? they may have been advised against this at the moment

factfinda
05-13-2012, 11:01 PM
Just found this post on what appears to be a blog by a local politician. Not knowing this fellow, I don't know how much weight to give his claim of up to 5 arrests being made by QPS?

http://paulgtully.blogspot.com.au/2012/05/how-long-more-till-police-pounce-on.html


He's been known to be off-track in the past:
http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/two-bodies-found-in-flood-hit-goodna-home-says-ipswich-councillor-paul-tully/story-e6freon6-1225990202826

In that case he tweeted some information before having it verified by police, and it was later discovered to be untrue.

Humdinger
05-13-2012, 11:02 PM
Just found this post on what appears to be a blog by a local politician. Not knowing this fellow, I don't know how much weight to give his claim of up to 5 arrests being made by QPS?

http://paulgtully.blogspot.com.au/2012/05/how-long-more-till-police-pounce-on.html

Very very interesting read!! I wonder if it's true that they put microphones into the flowers? It would make sense and possibly GBC would utter a 'sorry' to Allison as he farewelled her - if indeed he were guilty. Then even if he wasn't he could still utter a 'sorry' because he didn't protect her... Hhhhmmm scrap that LOL

coolcat
05-13-2012, 11:03 PM
as night follows day, i believe BC is involved. a reliable source has indicated on the 2nd person to be implicated is believed to be a woman (but is NOT any former employees/partners). a little closer to home.......

Mamma Bear perhaps?

Greg
05-13-2012, 11:05 PM
I don't know if it would be Financial "GAIN" as such but I really do believe "IF" any of the family is involved in this it would be due to Financial Reasons...ie:- Hide Financial Mistakes or Prevent Possible Property Settlement?

Although, I don't think the possibility of Financial gain is "WILD" specualtion...Money makes people do crazy things to people especially if you think you are entitled to it or it is YOURS and know one else desrves it??

IMO

Avoiding a loss can be considered a gain...

Strangeworld
05-13-2012, 11:06 PM
Just found this post on what appears to be a blog by a local politician. Not knowing this fellow, I don't know how much weight to give his claim of up to 5 arrests being made by QPS?

http://paulgtully.blogspot.com.au/2012/05/how-long-more-till-police-pounce-on.html

Wow, he's going out on a limb posting that. Interesting. Thanks for the link.

Zorro
05-13-2012, 11:06 PM
Just found this post on what appears to be a blog by a local politician. Not knowing this fellow, I don't know how much weight to give his claim of up to 5 arrests being made by QPS?

http://paulgtully.blogspot.com.au/2012/05/how-long-more-till-police-pounce-on.html

That's interesting. Paul Tully is an Ipswich City Councillor and is himself qualified in Law. He would know who to talk to and hopefully would know better than to feed the rumour mill.

SKMA
05-13-2012, 11:07 PM
Either way we shouldnt be using names, initials, approximate or specific home address references, or current workplaces, to respect their privacy and to comply with forum rules.

How about Big Bwana and Little Bwana for starters? Big B and Little B? Big Ted and Little Ted? Starsky and Hutch? The choice is yours...

Humdinger
05-13-2012, 11:07 PM
Mamma Bear perhaps?

It would not surprise me in the least if she was involved! She comes across as a 'Stephanie Forrester' type character - (From the soapie Bold and the Beautiful).
Protect cubs at ALL costs!

possumheart
05-13-2012, 11:10 PM
Very very interesting read!! I wonder if it's true that they put microphones into the flowers? LOL

That is just silly, I can't believe that!

plentyofnous
05-13-2012, 11:11 PM
It would not surprise me in the least if she was involved! She comes across as a 'Stephanie Forrester' type character - (From the soapie Bold and the Beautiful).
Protect cubs at ALL costs!

How many people invested money with him

SKMA
05-13-2012, 11:11 PM
That's interesting. Paul Tully is an Ipswich City Councillor and is himself qualified in Law. He would know who to talk to and hopefully would know better than to feed the rumour mill.

I think the police are using various media outlets to put pressure on suspects eg: the ABC announcer who "accidentally" broke the embargo on a police operation at the roundabout last week. I listen to that announcer every morning and he is the type that publicly agonizes over his mistakes but that night he was back on Twitter shortly after the rebuke from the QPS media person (executive director, no less) twittering away as if nothing had happened.

I think this is more of the same because Paul Tully DOES know better than to fuel speculation.

Fuskier
05-13-2012, 11:12 PM
This isn't official, but on one of the early threads someone who IMO seemed quite credible, claimed they were close friends with people in Allison's circle and posted a few things about their situation, and one of them was that Allison and GBC were having counselling, and that part of the work they had to do as a couple was that they had to have a discussion every night. Possibly as a way to ensure they were communicating and staying in touch, and also sorting out issues promptly rather than letting them fester. Sounds feasible. If this is the case another reason for a raging argument could simply have been that Allison wanted to have the discussion and there were plenty of 'issues' to talk about, and GBC wanted to avoid the discussion altogether.

I have experienced something similar in 2 past relationships and in both cases my partners at the time would do almost anything not to discuss issues, and would go into rages if you tried to bring anything up. There was never a good time, there was never a nice or tactful or positive way to discuss things that would make them any more amenable. They simply did not want to hear about any problems that involved them having to change or do anything, just the very mention could cause a frightening reaction. This of course is not sustainable, there is only so long you can go sweeping things under the carpet and expecting your partner to say nothing.
In addition, secondary schooling: Allison sounded like an organized person and would want to forward plan schools for the girls and fees payments, etc. These discussions come to a head around 10 years when secondary schooling is on the horizon. If the parents are not on the same page, have different values, different ideas, then deeply held values and aspirations can present intense conflict between the parents. If money marked for the girls education was found missing and financial problems would prevent the girls education, this could trigger intense conflict as we know that IGGS for the girls was an aspiration of both Alison's and her parents.

Barram5
05-13-2012, 11:15 PM
thanks UnfoldingTruth...I have visited this idea a few times both on this forum and in my head. I'm sorry to say I have also been one of the first people to jump on the next theory bandwagon and see the possibilities in those theories too. I think about how I will feel about my comments if he is innocent. But agree that lately I find it hard to picture him in the act of both murdering and covering up. I don't know him..I just feel this way.

I to have thought from the beginning of other senarios and that he may not be guilty but have not posted till now .I had a feeling from the outset that more than one person was involved..MOO

Greg
05-13-2012, 11:17 PM
I think pre-meditated murder for financial gain is very wild speculation. IMO this family is not sinister and is probably very conservative. They obviously value highly the link to the Baden-Powell name and feel they have some status in their community. A few minutes/hours of really bad judgement has wreaked a tragedy of huge proportions on all of them.

Lol not sinister and very conservative.....the dickies yes but the marriage enhancement facilitator and co I'm not so sure......

;)

coolcat
05-13-2012, 11:19 PM
Just found this post on what appears to be a blog by a local politician. Not knowing this fellow, I don't know how much weight to give his claim of up to 5 arrests being made by QPS?

http://paulgtully.blogspot.com.au/2012/05/how-long-more-till-police-pounce-on.html

Holy Moley...If thid guy's sources are correct then this is......HUGE!

Poor Poor Allison.

Who is this Guy for Non Queenslanders?

Is he anyone of note?

possumheart
05-13-2012, 11:20 PM
In addition, secondary schooling: Allison sounded like an organized person and would want to forward plan schools for the girls and fees payments, etc. These discussions come to a head around 10 years when secondary schooling is on the horizon. If the parents re not on the same page, have different values, different ideas, then deeply held values and aspirations can present intense conflict between the parents.

My thoughts exactly, which I had posted in the past ... but I didn't put it as well as you have. :takeabow:

Greg
05-13-2012, 11:22 PM
Just found this post on what appears to be a blog by a local politician. Not knowing this fellow, I don't know how much weight to give his claim of up to 5 arrests being made by QPS?

http://paulgtully.blogspot.com.au/2012/05/how-long-more-till-police-pounce-on.html

Hot damn that would be sweet

WheresColumbo
05-13-2012, 11:22 PM
G'Day y'all! This is my first post.

My head is done in with this case! I first stumbled upon WS just after poor ABC was found under the bridge. I was gobsmacked that the CM had printed GBC as being 'DEVASTATED' at this dreadful find...note the use of the inverted commas! This is what started my googling around to find out if there were others out there who were reading between the lines as I was!

This site is mind-blowing and I have become totally obsessed ever since. You guys are amazing.

For the record, I believe 100% that GBC is the main perp, with the old NBC the other 'evil-doer'! No question in my mind. IMO

However, QPS are obviously being super, super thorough in gathering all the hard evidence in order to put these evil-doers away for life! Think Casey Anthony! I think I spied Columbo sneeking into HQ the other day! Hope so.

I reckon the deed was done in the heat of a terrible mix of explosive factors...infidelity, devastating financial problems, divorce looming, heated accusations, name-calling, anger beyond control...AND the kids ARE NOT AT HOME! No hushing... 'the kids are listening blah, blah, blah'. And too late he's strangled the life out of the poor, poor woman. The gutless mongrel then thinks of his wonderful reputation, calls big daddy-O, howling down the line ...'the b***h made me do it'! Yeah right...I watch too many real life crime shows. But still reckon that's what went down that terrible night.

Gawd I sure hope they do not get away with it. My heart goes out to the three little girls and ABC's family.

plentyofnous
05-13-2012, 11:25 PM
In addition, secondary schooling: Allison sounded like an organized person and would want to forward plan schools for the girls and fees payments, etc. These discussions come to a head around 10 years when secondary schooling is on the horizon. If the parents are not on the same page, have different values, different ideas, then deeply held values and aspirations can present intense conflict between the parents. If money marked for the girls education was found missing and financial problems would prevent the girls education, this could trigger intense conflict as we know that IGGS for the girls was an aspiration of both Alison's and her parents.

It might not have been an aspiration of BC s, he might have wanted something different, I really don t know what all the fuss about IGGS is about, ( ABC didn t appear to have a great deal to do with it since school herself ) they are years away from it, high school that is, I would be more interested in what they are doing to help them now, I, certainly wouldn t be picking out High Schools now, last thing I would be doing. This is not meant to be cold just my opinion

justice23
05-13-2012, 11:26 PM
Just found this post on what appears to be a blog by a local politician. Not knowing this fellow, I don't know how much weight to give his claim of up to 5 arrests being made by QPS?

http://paulgtully.blogspot.com.au/2012/05/how-long-more-till-police-pounce-on.html

First time poster!

wow that’s extreme? Hard to believe

“There is even a suggestion in legal circles that up to 5 people may be arrested over the murder, including accessories after the fact.” http://paulgtully.blogspot.com.au/2012/05/how-long-more-till-police-pounce-on.html

However nothing surprises me anymore…

IMO
1. GBC – kills ABC
2. BWANA – called to help with the body
3. Mamma bear – someone had to wash their cloths/ shoes? Mud, blood? (Destroying evidence)
4. Lady friend- possibly provided a fake alibi for GBC
5. ???

Rational
05-13-2012, 11:28 PM
How about Big Bwana and Little Bwana for starters? Big B and Little B? Big Ted and Little Ted? Starsky and Hutch? The choice is yours...

Or Dumb and Dumber! And let's not forget Jemimah.

mountainhigh
05-13-2012, 11:34 PM
First time poster!

wow that’s extreme? Hard to believe

“There is even a suggestion in legal circles that up to 5 people may be arrested over the murder, including accessories after the fact.” http://paulgtully.blogspot.com.au/2012/05/how-long-more-till-police-pounce-on.html

However nothing surprises me anymore…

IMO
1. GBC – kills ABC
2. BWANA – called to help with the body
3. Mamma bear – someone had to wash their cloths/ shoes? Mud, blood? (Destroying evidence)
4. Lady friend- possibly provided a fake alibi for GBC
5. ???

you are probably off the mark on point number 4. I think the 'going to bed at 10pm leaving ABC watching TV' is probably fairly accurate. I feel if point 4 was raised then he would be in custody by now, as it is a complete contradictory to the initial story of events given to police. pretty sure if it was point 4 then this would have been reported by now...and perhaps even raised/revised to media during the search for her.

coolcat
05-13-2012, 11:42 PM
Just found this post on what appears to be a blog by a local politician. Not knowing this fellow, I don't know how much weight to give his claim of up to 5 arrests being made by QPS?

http://paulgtully.blogspot.com.au/2012/05/how-long-more-till-police-pounce-on.html


It would not surprise me in the least if she was involved! She comes across as a 'Stephanie Forrester' type character - (From the soapie Bold and the Beautiful).
Protect cubs at ALL costs!

That is exactly who she reminded me of when I first seen her...lol!
(I used to watch it with my Nan when she was alive..God Rest her Beautiful soul)....

In Pics on C21 Website..She does appear to look a little softer with her hair a bit longer but now she just looks fierce and aggresive almost!

mountainhigh
05-13-2012, 11:42 PM
It might not have been an aspiration of BC s, he might have wanted something different, I really don t know what all the fuss about IGGS is about, ( ABC didn t appear to have a great deal to do with it since school herself ) they are years away from it, high school that is, I would be more interested in what they are doing to help them now, I, certainly wouldn t be picking out High Schools now, last thing I would be doing. This is not meant to be cold just my opinion

its been raised before, it was obviously something that her parents (the Dickies) felt strongly about and believed it would have been her dying wish or at least one of them no doubt. Even if it hadn't been a dying wish then her parents feel strongly about it, and one could assume its been raised within the family at some stage. If you have ever experiened loss then you will know its important for close family to 'do things'. it helps them through the grieving process. This is clearly deeply personal to them and its their business. certainly not ours. I also understand the trust is to be used for general purposes and ongoing welfare costs, also including counselling for the children as we speak. So I guess that answers your Qn as to what they are doing 'now' for them.
You are not being particularly cold but let people do what they feel they have to, especially under these circumstances. its thier family and their loss not ours. Dealing with loss is horrible under any circumstance, never mind a devastating and untimely death/murder such as this, and all played out in the public (something else none of us will typically experience or endure)

SKMA
05-13-2012, 11:43 PM
First time poster!

wow that’s extreme? Hard to believe

“There is even a suggestion in legal circles that up to 5 people may be arrested over the murder, including accessories after the fact.” http://paulgtully.blogspot.com.au/2012/05/how-long-more-till-police-pounce-on.html

However nothing surprises me anymore…

IMO
1. GBC – kills ABC
2. BWANA – called to help with the body
3. Mamma bear – someone had to wash their cloths/ shoes? Mud, blood? (Destroying evidence)
4. Lady friend- possibly provided a fake alibi for GBC
5. ???

Don't relegate a woman to the domestic drudgery!! They're just as good at killing and maiming as any man! Maybe Mamma Bear did the killing and NBC washed the clothes... just saying...

Ms Fawn
05-13-2012, 11:47 PM
First post here but I have been following the thread with great interest.

To me the defining moment was the first (and only I think) time GBC spoke to the press.

As soon as he opened his mouth the first thing he said was:
"I'm just trying to lookk after my children at the moment"
NOT "I'm looking for my wife", pleading for her to return etc.
As soon as he said that, I knew that HE knew she wasn't coming back.
Then he went on with ME,ME,ME blah blah "but I'm ok" who cares this should be the least of your worries your wife is MISSING.
He also looked sideways when mentioning her which seemed shameful or deceptive to me.

I wish he had spoken more but he lawyered up (which is probably a wise move considering how much he gave up in this speech!)

Anyway just my humble opinion.

itsthevibe
05-13-2012, 11:49 PM
I think wrapping her in a blanket would have screamed "GUILTY HUSBAND". He might have still been a little fond of her, but he wouldn't have want to leave her in any way that implicated him.

I suspect. IMO. He spent the whole night trying to think about what a random attacker would do, to make it look like someone else had done it. I can see strangulation. Or a head injury IMO. Strangulation does not always take 10 mins, from what I've researched. If you cut off the vein in the side of the neck that supplies oxygen, death can occur in a minute or two.

I think someone who had scientific knowledge posted recently that in strangulation it takes 3-4 minutes to ensure they are dead. That is a long time and in that time (unless you strangle from behind which is unusual) you are looking at the victim, they are usually fighting back, and you are continuing to squeeze until they are dead. If you strangle someone to death it is a very conscious thing you are doing in trying to kill them IMO, because you keep going until the job is done.

It's not as common, not even sure if its possible, that if you start to strangle someone and then stop that they die later, whereas if you were hitting them over the head with a blunt instrument and didnt kill them they could get a brain haemorrhage or have other internal bleeding where they would die later.

If it turns out to be strangulation, lets get this straight, it's not an 'accident'. Being regretful for your actions later doesnt mean you didnt mean to kill the person, it could mean you suddenly realise you might have ruined your own life and now you might wish to reconsider. If it is strangulation, let's keep it in mind that this is a person who watched their victim's face as they died in a state of terror, and the reaction in front of them wasn't enough to make them stop. The usual intention is to slience the person, and if that means killing them, that is what they do.

By the way, I know I've said this before but I'll say it again as there are different people on the forum at different times, just because someone did not pre-plan the murder does not mean they didn't 'intend' to kill the person. When you actually killed the person you could very well have intended it, and very much wanted it. It is NOT any less of a crime because the desire to kill only arose in a short space of time. For all we know the murderer might have had a wish to kill their victim on many occasions, and this was the one time they actually did it.

Bayside
05-13-2012, 11:49 PM
[QUOTE=HocusFocus;7913333]Are you saying the body would still maintain the same position it was in when rigor mortis sets in?[/QUOT

Yes, so it looked like they were floating.

Neuromancer
05-13-2012, 11:52 PM
I think that referred to an Ipswich politician's tweet? They probably received some info about how much the Kholo creek flooded. Locals (despite having to hide to avoid the ire of online woodpeckers) know how quickly the creeks here rise, and having had decent rainfall for a while, they tend to come up (and go down) quite quick. I wasn't near Kholo that weekend but when I went to Upper Brookfield mid-Saturday the creeks were suprisingly high and fast flowing after what seemed like not a huge amount of rain.

This? (from Paul Tully)
http://paulgtully.blogspot.com.au/2012/05/allison-baden-clay-body-would-never.html

plentyofnous
05-13-2012, 11:54 PM
I think someone who had scientific knowledge posted recently that in strangulation it takes 3-4 minutes to ensure they are dead. That is a long time and in that time (unless you strangle from behind which is unusual) you are looking at the victim, they are usually fighting back, and you are continuing to squeeze until they are dead. If you strangle someone to death it is a very conscious thing you are doing in trying to kill them IMO, because you keep going until the job is done.

It's not as common, not even sure if its possible, that if you start to strangle someone and then stop that they die later, whereas if you were hitting them over the head with a blunt instrument and didnt kill them they could get a brain haemorrhage or have other internal bleeding where they would die later.

If it turns out to be strangulation, lets get this straight, it's not an 'accident'. Being regretful for your actions later doesnt mean you didnt mean to kill the person, it could mean you suddenly realise you might have ruined your own life and now you might wish to reconsider. If it is strangulation, let's keep it in mind that this is a person who watched their victim's face as they died in a state of terror, and the reaction in front of them wasn't enough to make them stop. The usual intention is to slience the person, and if that means killing them, that is what they do.

By the way, I know I've said this before but I'll say it again as there are different people on the forum at different times, just because someone did not pre-plan the murder does not mean they didn't 'intend' to kill the person. When you actually killed the person you could very well have intended it, and very much wanted it. It is NOT any less of a crime because the desire to kill only arose in a short space of time. For all we know the murderer might have had a wish to kill their victim on many occasions, and this was the one time they actually did it.

Intention is a very objective matter and provacation under Qld Criminal Law is a defence

Neuromancer
05-13-2012, 11:56 PM
EBC Extract
English-born Elaine has a fascinating life story {EVEN MORE FACINATING NOW}spanning three continents, three children and six grandchildren, parts of which she has already documented into short stories just for the family – and which she is keen to turn into a book when she has a rare spare moment. {PROBABLY NOT SO MUCH TIME IF VISITING SON IN THE BIG HOUSE} Her many interests include psychology, reading, music, travel and taking an active interest in her grandchildren’s development {MAYBE TOO ACTIVE OVER LAST 3 WEEKS}.

LOL :floorlaugh:

justice23
05-13-2012, 11:57 PM
you are probably off the mark on point number 4. I think the 'going to bed at 10pm leaving ABC watching TV' is probably fairly accurate. I feel if point 4 was raised then he would be in custody by now, as it is a complete contradictory to the initial story of events given to police. pretty sure if it was point 4 then this would have been reported by now...and perhaps even raised/revised to media during the search for her.

hmm true..

however she has been interviewed multiple times... I get the feeling (and that’s all it is) that she is being treated like an accomplice/ or guilty in some form rather than just a helpful witness who might have infomation to help the case.

Rational
05-13-2012, 11:59 PM
This? (from Paul Tully)
http://paulgtully.blogspot.com.au/2012/05/allison-baden-clay-body-would-never.html

Neuromancer I just checked your link toTully's blog but it is a different one. Maybe trying the direct link when it was first mentioned.

minni
05-14-2012, 12:03 AM
I think someone who had scientific knowledge posted recently that in strangulation it takes 3-4 minutes to ensure they are dead. That is a long time and in that time (unless you strangle from behind which is unusual) you are looking at the victim, they are usually fighting back, and you are continuing to squeeze until they are dead. If you strangle someone to death it is a very conscious thing you are doing in trying to kill them IMO, because you keep going until the job is done.



this face to face intense and prolonged act is what made me state earlier that I simply can't imagine GBC doing it....it is just so incredibly cold blooded and he doesnt come across like he has the capacity. I can't really say why I feel this but do feel it really strongly. It's not just his somewhat feminine demeanour (probably not the right description but I dont know how else to put it) I am also aware that this is often done by husbands against their wives so my thoughts about this don't really make sense I know

Curiousasacat
05-14-2012, 12:04 AM
This Paul Tully thing is huge. He would stand to be in a lot of poop to say this. He is a guy you love or hate. Personally I like him. He's a straight shooter and tends to speak his mind. IMO......He does like the media though ; Oh my goodness, this is massive.

justice23
05-14-2012, 12:04 AM
Don't relegate a woman to the domestic drudgery!! They're just as good at killing and maiming as any man! Maybe Mamma Bear did the killing and NBC washed the clothes... just saying...

point taken :blushing:

plentyofnous
05-14-2012, 12:06 AM
I wonder whether they ll wear those bloody yellow jackets to court

Greg
05-14-2012, 12:08 AM
Don't relegate a woman to the domestic drudgery!! They're just as good at killing and maiming as any man! Maybe Mamma Bear did the killing and NBC washed the clothes... just saying...

Yeah how sexist is that, i feel like ripping my bra off and burning it!!!!

:truce:

Hawkins
05-14-2012, 12:11 AM
I really don t know what all the fuss about IGGS is about, ( ABC didn t appear to have a great deal to do with it since school herself ) they are years away from it, high school that is, I would be more interested in what they are doing to help them now, I, certainly wouldn t be picking out High Schools now, last thing I would be doing. This is not meant to be cold just my opinion

For some private schools in Qld, including some girl's schools, parents need to apply for places for their children virtually as soon as they are born. They will often need to pay $1,000 or more to apply and then a couple of thousand more when a place is offered, usually 3-4 years before commencing there. These fees are nonrefundable and do not get subtracted from tuition fees. With three children this would be a significant outlay for some familes. I am unaware of the fees or enrolment procedures at IGGS but their policies could well be similar.

To put three children through six years of education at a top tier secondary school in Brisbane would probably cost 300K-400K factoring in uniforms and levees. This figure is likely to rise significantly due to mooted changes to Commonwealth funding policies in coming years. For a couple to cope with that sort of financial committment they need to be either quite wealthy or very much on the same page. Many parents of modest means do indeed make such a commitment, but it can be a source of tension.

plentyofnous
05-14-2012, 12:15 AM
For some private schools in Qld, including some girl's schools, parents need to apply for places for their children virtually as soon as they are born. They will often need to pay $1,000 or more to apply and then a couple of thousand more when a place is offered, usually 3-4 years before commencing there. These fees are nonrefundable and do not get subtracted from tuition fees. With three children this would be a significant outlay for some familes. I am unaware of the fees or enrolment procedures at IGGS but their policies could well be similar.

To put three children through six years of education at a top tier secondary school in Brisbane would probably cost 300K-400K factoring in uniforms and levees. This figure is likely to rise significantly due to mooted changes to Commonwealth funding policies in coming years. For a couple to cope with that sort of financial committment they need to be either quite wealthy or very much on the same page. Many parents of modest means do indeed make such a commitment, but it can be a source of tension.

Reeks a little of "class/perception" i think, especially when you are renting, and borrowing seeking investors for Business ventures

coolcat
05-14-2012, 12:16 AM
First post here but I have been following the thread with great interest.

To me the defining moment was the first (and only I think) time GBC spoke to the press.

As soon as he opened his mouth the first thing he said was:
"I'm just trying to lookk after my children at the moment"
NOT "I'm looking for my wife", pleading for her to return etc.
As soon as he said that, I knew that HE knew she wasn't coming back.
Then he went on with ME,ME,ME blah blah "but I'm ok" who cares this should be the least of your worries your wife is MISSING.
He also looked sideways when mentioning her which seemed shameful or deceptive to me.

I wish he had spoken more but he lawyered up (which is probably a wise move considering how much he gave up in this speech!)

Anyway just my humble opinion.

That is a good point you make - because the children would have been fine being taken care of by sister , mum or Dad...I am sure if they cared enough for Allison and the girls all of the above would of said to him...We will deal with the children whilst you go and look for your wife and their Mother...As far as I know the children were not in immediate danger and would of understood if Daddy was not there because he would of been out looking for Mummy.....Simple.

Greg
05-14-2012, 12:17 AM
First post here but I have been following the thread with great interest.

To me the defining moment was the first (and only I think) time GBC spoke to the press.

As soon as he opened his mouth the first thing he said was:
"I'm just trying to lookk after my children at the moment"
NOT "I'm looking for my wife", pleading for her to return etc.
As soon as he said that, I knew that HE knew she wasn't coming back.
Then he went on with ME,ME,ME blah blah "but I'm ok" who cares this should be the least of your worries your wife is MISSING.
He also looked sideways when mentioning her which seemed shameful or deceptive to me.

I wish he had spoken more but he lawyered up (which is probably a wise move considering how much he gave up in this speech!)

Anyway just my humble opinion.

Your humble opinion is well regarded!!! the minute I saw that I said 'That bugger has bumped her off, check him out!!!" then i kept showing the clip to anyone that was interested and to those that weren't as well....

and then I saw her parents and how devestated they were and it was the start of the obsession for me I couldnt for the life of me allow that human refuse and anyone associated to get away with it......

:peace:

Bayside
05-14-2012, 12:17 AM
I wonder whether they ll wear those bloody yellow jackets to court

I think he should sell them on ebay, don't think he will need those again.

I bet he is nicely shaven and presented for court tho.

Curiousasacat
05-14-2012, 12:19 AM
Neuromancer I just checked your link toTully's blog but it is a different one. Maybe trying the direct link when it was first mentioned.



This was the one I mentioned earlier today!-
http://paulgtully.blogspot.com.au/2012/05/allison-baden-clay-body-would-never.html

Allison Baden-Clay's killer must have been a meticulous, cold-blooded individual determined her body would never be found.

And there is every chance it would have been concealed forever in the thick vines and undergrowth which line Kholo Creek near Mt Crosby in Brisbane's west.

But the killer did not count on heavy autumn rain on the weekend of 28 - 29 April 2012 which put a one metre flush in Kholo Creek washing her body downstream almost to the mouth of the creek where it enters the Brisbane River, opposite the Ipswich suburb of Karalee.

If Mrs Baden-Clay's body had been dumped further upstream in Kholo Creek closer to the Tyamolum Scout Camp, it is likely to have remained trapped and concealed beneath fallen trees which line the creek bank following the devastating January 2011 Brisbane River flood.

Had this year's unseasonal April showers not hit Brisbane and Ipswich 10 days after she disappeared, it is almost a statistical certainty her body would have slowly perished into oblivion beneath those almost impenetrable vines and undergrowth.

The killer was banking on the fact her body would never be located, just like the disappearance of another former Ipswich girl Sharron Phillips on the Ipswich Motorway at Wacol in 1986.

But the unlikely late autumn rain is now almost certain to lead to the undoing of this callous killer.

Whoever is responsible for this dastardly deed is a cold, calculating brutal killer who knew exactly what they were doing by showing a degree of extreme cunning in the disposal of the victim's body.

But one thing they could never count on was the vagaries of Brisbane's sub-tropical weather and the unseasonal torrent of rain in our creeks and river systems at the end of April which ultimately exposed one of our state's worst crimes in Queensland's 153 year history.

Keyboredom
05-14-2012, 12:20 AM
I think someone who had scientific knowledge posted recently that in strangulation it takes 3-4 minutes to ensure they are dead. That is a long time and in that time (unless you strangle from behind which is unusual) you are looking at the victim, they are usually fighting back, and you are continuing to squeeze until they are dead. If you strangle someone to death it is a very conscious thing you are doing in trying to kill them IMO, because you keep going until the job is done.

It's not as common, not even sure if its possible, that if you start to strangle someone and then stop that they die later, whereas if you were hitting them over the head with a blunt instrument and didnt kill them they could get a brain haemorrhage or have other internal bleeding where they would die later.

If it turns out to be strangulation, lets get this straight, it's not an 'accident'. Being regretful for your actions later doesnt mean you didnt mean to kill the person, it could mean you suddenly realise you might have ruined your own life and now you might wish to reconsider. If it is strangulation, let's keep it in mind that this is a person who watched their victim's face as they died in a state of terror, and the reaction in front of them wasn't enough to make them stop. The usual intention is to slience the person, and if that means killing them, that is what they do.

By the way, I know I've said this before but I'll say it again as there are different people on the forum at different times, just because someone did not pre-plan the murder does not mean they didn't 'intend' to kill the person. When you actually killed the person you could very well have intended it, and very much wanted it. It is NOT any less of a crime because the desire to kill only arose in a short space of time. For all we know the murderer might have had a wish to kill their victim on many occasions, and this was the one time they actually did it.

If the 'love tap' rumour is likely to be true, a small female being punched in the face or side of head, by any male (even a pasty limp-wrist) would create potential for unexpected consequences. If the attacker delivered something more than a slap, they wouldn't have to be a big strong guy to do a lot of damage. The victim's brain can bounce inside their skull (along the lines of a knockout in boxing) and render them unconscious, doing damage or causing clots to the brain then, or other damage striking their head in the resulting fall. The artery in the neck can also rupture from any sudden forceful sideways jerking of the head. The initial blow or the unconscious fall could be just as bad as getting hit with an iron bar.

If something like this happened, the attacker could claim there was never any intention to kill the victim, simply delivering a single punch. There's been plenty of cases revolving around an unlikely single punch death of large solid males who were prepared for the blow, let alone a defenceless 60-ish kg woman (but fewer cases - or none I know of - dealing with the killer hiding the body of the victim).

dansw
05-14-2012, 12:23 AM
A question for you all.....How far would you go to to protect your children? HEART VS BRAIN......

Bayside
05-14-2012, 12:23 AM
That is a good point you make - because the children would have been fine being taken care of by sister , mum or Dad...I am sure if they cared enough for Allison and the girls all of the above would of said to him...We will deal with the children whilst you go and look for your wife and their Mother...As far as I know the children were not in immediate danger and would of understood if Daddy was not there because he would of been out looking for Mummy.....Simple.

He seemed to spend a lot of time in his office after, while the children were being watched by others. I think he was trying to get sympathy that he was struggling to care for the kids so they wouldnt bother him.

CoffeeDrinker
05-14-2012, 12:23 AM
That is a good point you make - because the children would have been fine being taken care of by sister , mum or Dad...I am sure if they cared enough for Allison and the girls all of the above would of said to him...We will deal with the children whilst you go and look for your wife and their Mother...As far as I know the children were not in immediate danger and would of understood if Daddy was not there because he would of been out looking for Mummy.....Simple.

Couldn't agree more, there is no way i would not be there looking! or if was not allowed due to perhaps contaminating the scene with DNA, i would be there showing support for the searchers. Mind you i would probably be having to be under some sort of sedation as well i reckon.

Neuromancer
05-14-2012, 12:25 AM
I think wrapping her in a blanket would have screamed "GUILTY HUSBAND". He might have still been a little fond of her, but he wouldn't have want to leave her in any way that implicated him.

I suspect. IMO. He spent the whole night trying to think about what a random attacker would do, to make it look like someone else had done it. I can see strangulation. Or a head injury IMO. Strangulation does not always take 10 mins, from what I've researched. If you cut off the vein in the side of the neck that supplies oxygen, death can occur in a minute or two.

Hard to know if there was any wrapping or not, if the site was further upstream. Lots of water turbulance on the journey could have removed things.

Strangulation has a couple of mechanisms - compressing airways so you can't breathe and occluding both carotid arteries and jugular veins, to prevent blood flow to/from brain. These require sustained pressure (more for airway than blood vessels because airways are more rigid structures).

What's significant though, is that it needs to be applied for a lot longer to kill someone than render them unconscious (if they pass out and pressure is removed they'll just start breathing again, blood flow resumes, which is why you can't manually strangle yourself, or die from holding your breath). This is where it gets really disturbing - the victim is already limp and unresponsive but the strangulation needs to continue well beyond that to be fatal.

(btw in RL I'm a healthcare professional, not a murderer, just fyi :) )

Karo
05-14-2012, 12:26 AM
IGGS, fees for high school are around $15,000 pa. You can apply up to 4 yrs before but you pay $500 fee which is non refundable. Up to 2 yrs before expected enrolment you have a face to face interview.

Barram5
05-14-2012, 12:27 AM
This Paul Tully thing is huge. He would stand to be in a lot of poop to say this. He is a guy you love or hate. Personally I like him. He's a straight shooter and tends to speak his mind. IMO......He does like the media though ; Oh my goodness, this is massive.

Paul Tully lives in our suburb and I like him and hope he hasn't got it wrong ..sounds like we'll know soon

marlywings
05-14-2012, 12:28 AM
I agree with your comment. But it is interesting that a high profile Real Estate Business Owner with semmingly endless Business Contacts and associations, employees etc hasn t really had anyone come out of the woodwork and say anything positive about anything. For a high profile in a very affluent and educated area, he seems to have a very low profile. Thoughts

I've a feeling this "high profile" was a part of the reason the massive search was underway so quickly....as opposed to say a jane doe from Woodridge.

That, & whatever it was the police found at the house for them to, very quickly, label it as a crime scene.

Blue Bottle
05-14-2012, 12:32 AM
Just interested in your thoughts, Who here has reasonable doubt BC responsible ?
Interesting question. But.... a difficult question to answer because as yet there isn't enough facts published to know what the evidence and circumstances are.

I don't commit myself either way because of that.

Greg
05-14-2012, 12:32 AM
Hard to know if there was any wrapping or not, if the site was further upstream. Lots of water turbulance on the journey could have removed things.

Strangulation has a couple of mechanisms - compressing airways so you can't breathe and occluding both carotid arteries and jugular veins, to prevent blood flow to/from brain. These require sustained pressure (more for airway than blood vessels because airways are more rigid structures).

What's significant though, is that it needs to be applied for a lot longer to kill someone than render them unconscious (if they pass out and pressure is removed they'll just start breathing again, blood flow resumes, which is why you can't manually strangle yourself, or die from holding your breath). This is where it gets really disturbing - the victim is already limp and unresponsive but the strangulation needs to continue well beyond that to be fatal.

(btw in RL I'm a healthcare professional, not a murderer, just fyi :) )

No worries thanks Dexter!!!!

Neuromancer
05-14-2012, 12:34 AM
NBC and EBC have 2 mortgages over their property at Kenmore taken out in 2005 for a total secured amount of $300,000 - exactly the same amount we've heard that GBC apparently borrowed recently? To pay back perhaps? Coincidence?

There's some serious sucking up to NBC by GBC in the blog (eg the link Coolcat just gave above) and business website, which strikes me as a little excessive and manipulative, which would fit with that, and mentions "help" starting the biz, presumably financial.

coolcat
05-14-2012, 12:37 AM
He seemed to spend a lot of time in his office after, while the children were being watched by others. I think he was trying to get sympathy that he was struggling to care for the kids so they wouldnt bother him.

Exactly...What could of been more important at Work and Lawyers then to be out looking for the Mother of your Children even if there marriage was on the Rocks.

It is a little odd also to be notified of your wifes death at work.

If Allison's Best friend was at the command Post 24/7 and gave up everything just to be there and support The Dickies, then i think he should of been there aswell...After all he is her husband and Allison is the Mother of his children........What could be more important then that!!

This ahs irritated me from the get go...and with every comment from posters saying they believe him to be innocent....He is definetly not innocent of being a complete TOOL.

These are not the action of a caring human being let alone a devoted and caring huband and Father....IMO

Strangeworld
05-14-2012, 12:40 AM
For those with insight into the law...

If the person/s who took Allison's life was charged with murder/manslaughter and proclaimed death was not intentional (i.e. intended assault but not death), would the potential sentence be impacted much by the related charge of interfering with a corpse/not seeking medical assistance (which may have potentially saved her life?).

Kimster
05-14-2012, 12:41 AM
:seeya:

We have a lot of guests right now! If you'd like to join the conversation, consider joining up tonight. I'll check the new registrants in 30 minutes so you can start posting right away! Websleuths is 100% free and we have a lot of interesting private forums for our members too. :D

Caviar
05-14-2012, 12:42 AM
Someone asked earlier if GBC is bunkered down....he has been at his Taringa offices today. (mate works in Taringa)

coolcat
05-14-2012, 12:43 AM
For those with insight into the law...

If the person/s who took Allison's life was charged with murder/manslaughter and proclaimed death was not intentional (i.e. intended assault but not death), would the potential sentence be impacted much by the related charge of interfering with a corpse/not seeking medical assistance (which may have potentially saved her life?).

They will be charged with numerous offences....

Humdinger
05-14-2012, 12:45 AM
A question for you all.....How far would you go to to protect your children? HEART VS BRAIN......

Depends on the situation.
If they were in legal trouble I would support them and encourage them to do the right thing. I cannot imagine that I would support illegal behaivour!

If they were in danger or missing, I'd never ever give up trying to help them or find them etc. I expect (and hope I never need to know) that I'd be like the dickies.

coolcat
05-14-2012, 12:48 AM
Someone asked earlier if GBC is bunkered down....he has been at his Taringa offices today. (mate works in Taringa)

For Christ Sake.......This Man is so keen to be at work!

Why wasn't he this active in looking for his wife?

Imagine being a staff member there at the moment....How do you act around a man that is suspected of killing his wife and someone you knew for that matter?????

I wonder if there have been any resignations?

plentyofnous
05-14-2012, 12:49 AM
For those with insight into the law...

If the person/s who took Allison's life was charged with murder/manslaughter and proclaimed death was not intentional (i.e. intended assault but not death), would the potential sentence be impacted much by the related charge of interfering with a corpse/not seeking medical assistance (which may have potentially saved her life?).

1 interference is a separate offence for which any sentence would be concurrent ie served at the same time

2 not seeking medical assistance is IMO circumstances surrounding offence which would be objective in any defence of provocation

Sentencing takes into account many different things, ie chance of rehab, early plea, etc etc

coolcat
05-14-2012, 12:54 AM
"This is shaping up as the murder trial to end all trials in Queensland with justice for Allison Baden-Clay hopefully only hours away."

Does he know something we don't know...Could it only just be hours away...God I hope something happens today?

Neuromancer
05-14-2012, 12:57 AM
I can't stop thinking about the position of the body.
My apologies if I am way off here, but someone posted footage from channel 10 a few threads back. It apparently showed the position of the body. I haven't been able to watch it as I'm on my iPhone and it won't load on here.
It was described that she was on her side with one arm stretched above her head.
Now if someone was hiding a body - dumping it in a dry creek bed or anywhere else, wouldn't they position the arms and legs together - arms by side or in front of the chest? You wouldn't want any stray limbs sticking out (sorry that sounds so awful!). So my thoughts are that the body has moved shortly after being dumped, or dumped well after being killed when rigor has set in (apparently reaches full rigor mortis around 12 hours after death.
Maybe being in water for so long changes this though.
Also sorry if this has aleady been brought up, I'm frantically trying to keep up!!

Rigor mortis varies due to conditions, but wears off after a few days at the most.

Blue Bottle
05-14-2012, 12:59 AM
Just found this post on what appears to be a blog by a local politician. Not knowing this fellow, I don't know how much weight to give his claim of up to 5 arrests being made by QPS?

http://paulgtully.blogspot.com.au/2012/05/how-long-more-till-police-pounce-on.html
Maybe I've been drinking too much bath water but I can't find a date of when that was posted.

Anyone?

Limaes
05-14-2012, 01:01 AM
"This is shaping up as the murder trial to end all trials in Queensland with justice for Allison Baden-Clay hopefully only hours away."

Does he know something we don't know...Could it only just be hours away...God I hope something happens today?

Was thinking the same thing when I read it! Oh my gawd!

CJ60
05-14-2012, 01:02 AM
this face to face intense and prolonged act is what made me state earlier that I simply can't imagine GBC doing it....it is just so incredibly cold blooded and he doesnt come across like he has the capacity. I can't really say why I feel this but do feel it really strongly. It's not just his somewhat feminine demeanour (probably not the right description but I dont know how else to put it) I am also aware that this is often done by husbands against their wives so my thoughts about this don't really make sense I know

I cannot imagine a husband strangling their wife, even if the marriage has soured, and they do it in a fit of rage. Especially after reading recent posts on strangulation. I described strangling a person to my husband - very graphically, then asked if our marriage was going down the gurgler and he was mad, could he do that to me. I expected him to say no - his response was 'if I hated you, yes' I was quite shocked - maybe I should be worried....

Not that we know the cause of death - and I would prefer for Allison's sake for it to be a single blow that caused her death. But again - I don't see that as 'accidental' when you hit someone with brute force - you mean to hurt them. And then, to cover it up - sheer cowardice.

Limaes
05-14-2012, 01:05 AM
Exactly...What could of been more important at Work and Lawyers then to be out looking for the Mother of your Children even if there marriage was on the Rocks.

It is a little odd also to be notified of your wifes death at work.

If Allison's Best friend was at the command Post 24/7 and gave up everything just to be there and support The Dickies, then i think he should of been there aswell...After all he is her husband and Allison is the Mother of his children........What could be more important then that!!

This ahs irritated me from the get go...and with every comment from posters saying they believe him to be innocent....He is definetly not innocent of being a complete TOOL.

These are not the action of a caring human being let alone a devoted and caring huband and Father....IMO

In one of the news footage clips, the reporter said that GBC told them he was banned from attending the Command Post, when they spoke to police they said... umm no we didn't ban him.

He wouldn't have wanted to be put in a situation where he would be asked questions. He was thinking only of himself imo.

plentyofnous
05-14-2012, 01:08 AM
the Tahitian Prince and GBC , a great jailyard combination

CJ60
05-14-2012, 01:08 AM
Maybe I've been drinking too much bath water but I can't find a date of when that was posted.

Anyone?

Ditto - I couldn't find date either.

Limaes
05-14-2012, 01:09 AM
I cannot imagine a husband strangling their wife, even if the marriage has soured, and they do it in a fit of rage. Especially after reading recent posts on strangulation. I described strangling a person to my husband - very graphically, then asked if our marriage was going down the gurgler and he was mad, could he do that to me. I expected him to say no - his response was 'if I hated you, yes' I was quite shocked - maybe I should be worried....

Not that we know the cause of death - and I would prefer for Allison's sake for it to be a single blow that caused her death. But again - I don't see that as 'accidental' when you hit someone with brute force - you mean to hurt them. And then, to cover it up - sheer cowardice.

This isn't high on my theory list but...perhaps the husband was feeling a bit frisky but the wife wasn't. He keeps trying to persuade her but she says no. He then forces her to anyway and she then says she is calling the police. He thinks about his family name and his 'reputation' and silences her anyway he can. Just a thought.

Limaes
05-14-2012, 01:11 AM
In one of the news footage clips, the reporter said that GBC told them he was banned from attending the Command Post, when they spoke to police they said... umm no we didn't ban him.

He wouldn't have wanted to be put in a situation where he would be asked questions. He was thinking only of himself imo.

Wanted to add..he wouldn't have wanted to answer questions or come face to face with ALLISON's FAMILY!

plentyofnous
05-14-2012, 01:12 AM
This isn't high on my theory list but...perhaps the husband was feeling a bit frisky but the wife wasn't. He keeps trying to persuade her but she says no. He then forces her to anyway and she then says she is calling the police. He thinks about his family name and his 'reputation' and silences her anyway he can. Just a thought.

His family name doesn t appear to be doing him much good at present, nor his reputation

Humdinger
05-14-2012, 01:14 AM
This isn't high on my theory list but...perhaps the husband was feeling a bit frisky but the wife wasn't. He keeps trying to persuade her but she says no. He then forces her to anyway and she then says she is calling the police. He thinks about his family name and his 'reputation' and silences her anyway he can. Just a thought.

From my understanding of spousal rape the women usually are in shock and filled with disbelief when this happens, not running for the phone.

Neuromancer
05-14-2012, 01:16 AM
This isn't official, but on one of the early threads someone who IMO seemed quite credible, claimed they were close friends with people in Allison's circle and posted a few things about their situation, and one of them was that Allison and GBC were having counselling, and that part of the work they had to do as a couple was that they had to have a discussion every night. Possibly as a way to ensure they were communicating and staying in touch, and also sorting out issues promptly rather than letting them fester. Sounds feasible. If this is the case another reason for a raging argument could simply have been that Allison wanted to have the discussion and there were plenty of 'issues' to talk about, and GBC wanted to avoid the discussion altogether.

I have experienced something similar in 2 past relationships and in both cases my partners at the time would do almost anything not to discuss issues, and would go into rages if you tried to bring anything up. There was never a good time, there was never a nice or tactful or positive way to discuss things that would make them any more amenable. They simply did not want to hear about any problems that involved them having to change or do anything, just the very mention could cause a frightening reaction. This of course is not sustainable, there is only so long you can go sweeping things under the carpet and expecting your partner to say nothing.

If you look through the blog, http://www.expertrealestate.blogspot.com.au, you can find statements that look like they've come from counselling directions, or the sort of things that Allison (as a psych grad) could have identified as personal deficiencies (eg lack of empathy).

"fathers are also trying to make better use of family time. To engage with their children. To empathise with their wife or partner."

Easier to write about than do, IMO.

Limaes
05-14-2012, 01:17 AM
From my understanding of spousal rape the women usually are in shock and filled with disbelief when this happens, not running for the phone.

My experience of spousal rape is through a friend of mine about 8 yrs ago. She didn't phone the police the first time. But she did the second time.

Humdinger
05-14-2012, 01:25 AM
My experience of spousal rape is through a friend of mine about 8 yrs ago. She didn't phone the police the first time. But she did the second time.

Sorry, I wasn't really thinking of repeated episodes :( So glad that she did it and I hope that they were helpful!
It's so sad that we live in a society where this does happen... This fits in with the narssisistic behaivour, the 'right' to have what he wants.

CJ60
05-14-2012, 01:28 AM
This isn't high on my theory list but...perhaps the husband was feeling a bit frisky but the wife wasn't. He keeps trying to persuade her but she says no. He then forces her to anyway and she then says she is calling the police. He thinks about his family name and his 'reputation' and silences her anyway he can. Just a thought.

Holy dooley! if my hubby says he is capable of strangling me, I think I am in need of some serious marriage enhancement. Wonder if the esteemed counsellor will do phone consults from the big house with bars!

marlywings
05-14-2012, 01:31 AM
If you look through the blog, http://www.expertrealestate.blogspot.com.au, you can find statements that look like they've come from counselling directions, or the sort of things that Allison (as a psych grad) could have identified as personal deficiencies (eg lack of empathy).

"fathers are also trying to make better use of family time. To engage with their children. To empathise with their wife or partner."

Easier to write about than do, IMO.

Or perhaps it was written by the "marriage enhancement facillitator"...who seemed to love his computer...according to a speech he gave at his father's funeral. He'd probably have all the time in the world to write such rubbish.

whitechapel
05-14-2012, 01:31 AM
Holy dooley! if my hubby says he is capable of strangling me, I think I am in need of some serious marriage enhancement. Wonder if the esteemed counsellor will do phone consults from the big house with bars!
quick, asking him what he thinks of 'love taps'

CJ60
05-14-2012, 01:31 AM
Someone asked earlier if GBC is bunkered down....he has been at his Taringa offices today. (mate works in Taringa)

? wrapping up the business...

Champagne4lulu
05-14-2012, 01:33 AM
Ditto - I couldn't find date either.

I couldn't find a date either but he does say in the blog that the killer might have attended the funeral LAST FRIDAY, which I take to mean it must have been written yesterday or today. So very recently.

Oh please let there be an arrest today!!!!

Futureinsight
05-14-2012, 01:34 AM
http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/national/did-two-people-kill-mum-allison-baden-clay/story-e6freuzr-1226351430100

It is understood a former colleague of Mr Baden-Clay's also hired a lawyer after being interviewed by police three times. The woman, a fellow real estate agent, worked closely with Mr Baden-Clay at his Century 21 office and the pair were listed as the joint selling agents on various properties.

The woman's professional profile said she "wouldn't have worked for just anyone" and that she brought to the business "empathy, understanding, a talent for solving problems and above all, a true love of property".



Therefore the media have told us WHO has hired the lawyer!!

Thank you!!! Totally missed that report.. Ok so only question from that is I thought TM was a current employee not former colleague???

Neuromancer
05-14-2012, 01:34 AM
Very very interesting read!! I wonder if it's true that they put microphones into the flowers? It would make sense and possibly GBC would utter a 'sorry' to Allison as he farewelled her - if indeed he were guilty. Then even if he wasn't he could still utter a 'sorry' because he didn't protect her... Hhhhmmm scrap that LOL

Not replying to you specifically Shel, but the idea of mics in the flowers. I think Tully's just trying to stir something up/put the wind up murderer.

If you think about the usual position of flowers in the church (off to the front and side, not right on top of where ppl are sitting) that's kinda silly. Unless he means the posies family held (but then how would you get access?)
You might as well just plant them under the seats at the front where you know family will be sitting.
And if he means the flowers on casket, well any time anyone is near that they're going to be under scrutiny.

And surely at funeral everyone is going to be on best behaviour anyway, and be careful even of what they are seen whispering/mouthing. And it's not the place you'd whisper something secret - that church has great acoustics and a lot of hard surfaces that amplify sound (been there a lot).

plentyofnous
05-14-2012, 01:34 AM
? wrapping up the business...

2 blocks of land and 10 houses to sell, what Business

Champagne4lulu
05-14-2012, 01:35 AM
When they make an arrest how will it be done? Press conference after the fact I guess?

Limaes
05-14-2012, 01:35 AM
Sorry, I wasn't really thinking of repeated episodes :( So glad that she did it and I hope that they were helpful!
It's so sad that we live in a society where this does happen... This fits in with the narssisistic behaivour, the 'right' to have what he wants.

No harm done :) Their marriage ended. She didn't go through with charges because she didn't want it to go to court. I think it happens more than we realise. Some women suffer in silence. I'm not saying this is what happened to Allison but if we are speculating then maybe it should be on the table somewhere.

Humdinger
05-14-2012, 01:36 AM
? wrapping up the business...

He might as well, he'll be ruined after all this innocent or not! No one's gonna buy a house from him now!!

CJ60
05-14-2012, 01:36 AM
I couldn't find a date either but he does say in the blog that the killer might have attended the funeral LAST FRIDAY, which I take to mean it must have been written yesterday or today. So very recently.

Oh please let there be an arrest today!!!!

Yep - has to be quite recent; but he also says simultaneous arrests over next few days - so I'll keep my champers on ice for the time being!

CJ60
05-14-2012, 01:39 AM
He might as well, he'll be ruined after all this innocent or not! No one's gonna buy a house from him now!!

I can't believe he still has 12 listings for sale - but then, look at all the publicity he's getting! Imagine how many hits his website is getting ( then again, most of them probably from posters on this forum!)

clara123
05-14-2012, 01:40 AM
Hello All,


Have been reading here for a while but this is my first post. Given the topic of family psycopathy has been raised, and reading into the comment by the MP this afternoon (...up to five..) I was wondering whether QPS would be able to access any police records in Sth Africa if they existed? Not that anything would be admissible I imagine.

Does anyone know how that intercontinental stuff works?

CJ60
05-14-2012, 01:41 AM
2 blocks of land and 10 houses to sell, what Business

Good point! Flashy premises, glossy brochures etc etc All arse and no knickers...

marlywings
05-14-2012, 01:42 AM
I can't believe he still has 12 listings for sale - but then, look at all the publicity he's getting! Imagine how many hits his website is getting ( then again, most of them probably from posters on this forum!)

Quite a few journos would have paid a visit also....

Limaes
05-14-2012, 01:43 AM
Not replying to you specifically Shel, but the idea of mics in the flowers. I think Tully's just trying to stir something up/put the wind up murderer.

If you think about the usual position of flowers in the church (off to the front and side, not right on top of where ppl are sitting) that's kinda silly. Unless he means the posies family held (but then how would you get access?)
You might as well just plant them under the seats at the front where you know family will be sitting.
And if he means the flowers on casket, well any time anyone is near that they're going to be under scrutiny.

And surely at funeral everyone is going to be on best behaviour anyway, and be careful even of what they are seen whispering/mouthing. And it's not the place you'd whisper something secret - that church has great acoustics and a lot of hard surfaces that amplify sound (been there a lot).

He might have meant the flowers on top of her casket. Police investigating the JBR murder put microphones near the headstone of her grave trying to catch an "I'm sorry" confession.

Ok saw that you already said the casket :)

Bayside
05-14-2012, 01:45 AM
I can't believe he still has 12 listings for sale - but then, look at all the publicity he's getting! Imagine how many hits his website is getting ( then again, most of them probably from posters on this forum!)

I would be very concerned if I had a rental property with that real estate and would get an accountant to check all transactions/payments.

CJ60
05-14-2012, 01:46 AM
Quite a few journos would have paid a visit also....

Nah, they just log on to us ..... most up to date info - first port of call - Websleuths! Seen the stats on this site...

Humdinger
05-14-2012, 01:47 AM
I would be very concerned if I had a rental property with that real estate and would get an accountant to check all transactions/payments.

Good point! I wonder how many rentals they manage, probably not as many as they used to!!

itsthevibe
05-14-2012, 01:48 AM
Perhaps so... but in the case of the Joanna Yeates murder in the UK where the innocent landlord was ruthlessly slandered by the press and individuals...his legal counsel went on to successfully sue all parties involved as all public defamation had been of course recorded by his legal counsel...

I wonder what would have to be proven for it to be slander. One thing I pointed out recently is that the particpants (and that includes 'guests' who read but do not post - the number of members and guests is shown at the bottom of the page ) in relation to the general population of say, the Moggill Electorate or really the State of Queensland, is extremely small. There are 31,000 voters in Moggill and 1.75 million voters in Queensland. Voters of course only include people over 18 who are citizens and have enrolled.

Whereas the number of members and guests on here, when taking into account repeat visitors, might only come to about 1,000 over the time the 7 versions of the thread has been going. And some guests might only visit once and read a few pages and then never return. The number of regulars would only be a few hundred people.

In view of that, I dont think this forum is really having a big impact on public opinion as most people have never heard of it. I really dont think it could be classified as having much impact on the scheme of things. Only my opinion of course. I also don't think the media have been sensationalising the case or dragging GBC through the mud at all. In fact it has been discussed here that it is considered the media and the police are deliberately taking a low profile to prevent any accusations of trial by media.

I don't know anything about the Joanna Yeates case but I suspect the circumstances of the legal action might have been a bit different. Do you have more information on what actually happened in terms of the slander and defamation? The extent of it, the numbers of people and the reach of it?

CJ60
05-14-2012, 01:50 AM
Hello All,


Have been reading here for a while but this is my first post. Given the topic of family psycopathy has been raised, and reading into the comment by the MP this afternoon (...up to five..) I was wondering whether QPS would be able to access any police records in Sth Africa if they existed? Not that anything would be admissible I imagine.

Does anyone know how that intercontinental stuff works?

Hi Clara,

Welcome - no sorry, I don't know -but I am sure someone on this site does! I could take on multiple professions after reading posts here!

marlywings
05-14-2012, 01:50 AM
Nah, they just log on to us ..... most up to date info - first port of call - Websleuths! Seen the stats on this site...

Going back a couple of weeks I think the media were well & truly checking out whatever, wherever they could.

Let's not forget they do a hell load of checking using "freedom of information act"

I think we are wayyy behind the ball...lol.

UnfoldingTruth
05-14-2012, 01:51 AM
Just found this post on what appears to be a blog by a local politician. Not knowing this fellow, I don't know how much weight to give his claim of up to 5 arrests being made by QPS?

http://paulgtully.blogspot.com.au/2012/05/how-long-more-till-police-pounce-on.html

Just catching up here, but read Paul Tullys Blog, and WOW!..I wonder if he has some inside info or just speculating like the rest of us. I have had my suspicions for some time on multiple people involved.

Neuromancer
05-14-2012, 01:53 AM
I think someone who had scientific knowledge posted recently that in strangulation it takes 3-4 minutes to ensure they are dead. That is a long time and in that time (unless you strangle from behind which is unusual) you are looking at the victim, they are usually fighting back, and you are continuing to squeeze until they are dead. If you strangle someone to death it is a very conscious thing you are doing in trying to kill them IMO, because you keep going until the job is done.

It's not as common, not even sure if its possible, that if you start to strangle someone and then stop that they die later, whereas if you were hitting them over the head with a blunt instrument and didnt kill them they could get a brain haemorrhage or have other internal bleeding where they would die later.

If it turns out to be strangulation, lets get this straight, it's not an 'accident'. Being regretful for your actions later doesnt mean you didnt mean to kill the person, it could mean you suddenly realise you might have ruined your own life and now you might wish to reconsider. If it is strangulation, let's keep it in mind that this is a person who watched their victim's face as they died in a state of terror, and the reaction in front of them wasn't enough to make them stop. The usual intention is to slience the person, and if that means killing them, that is what they do.

By the way, I know I've said this before but I'll say it again as there are different people on the forum at different times, just because someone did not pre-plan the murder does not mean they didn't 'intend' to kill the person. When you actually killed the person you could very well have intended it, and very much wanted it. It is NOT any less of a crime because the desire to kill only arose in a short space of time. For all we know the murderer might have had a wish to kill their victim on many occasions, and this was the one time they actually did it.

Great post.

Rational
05-14-2012, 01:53 AM
? wrapping up the business...
Too funny! But cannot appear to make smilies work :-(

Bayside
05-14-2012, 01:54 AM
Nah, they just log on to us ..... most up to date info - first port of call - Websleuths! Seen the stats on this site...

I agree.

Makara
05-14-2012, 01:54 AM
Just catching up here, but read Paul Tullys Blog, and WOW!..I wonder if he has some inside info or just speculating like the rest of us. I have had my suspicions for some time on multiple people involved.

I can think of four people. Number five has me stumped. :waitasec:

I know, it's the bloke in the bus shelter! :what:

mountainhigh
05-14-2012, 01:56 AM
Yep - has to be quite recent; but he also says simultaneous arrests over next few days - so I'll keep my champers on ice for the time being!

that's a little bit off don't you think. Probably worth keeping in mind this is not side show alley, and at the end of the day there are 3 poor little girls who are potentially going to have their whole damn life and world go from so horribly bad (which is what it is now after losing their mothe)r, to just a horrific nightmare that only very few children in this world will ever have to endure!!

Therefore whilst justice is naturally important, perhaps keep this in mind and maintain some dignity about this whole situation and spare a thought for these poor little souls. because their life is just about to go from bad to worse in a manner that is clearly indescribeable for adults, let alone 3 minors.

Humdinger
05-14-2012, 01:57 AM
Just catching up here, but read Paul Tullys Blog, and WOW!..I wonder if he has some inside info or just speculating like the rest of us. I have had my suspicions for some time on multiple people involved.

Your posts always interest me! Would you share with us your theory?

Rational
05-14-2012, 01:57 AM
I am just hanging in here today hoping that something is not far off. Anyone else feel the same?

Humdinger
05-14-2012, 02:00 AM
I am just hanging in here today hoping that something is not far off. Anyone else feel the same?

I need for this to be over... I've been online almost all day and my house is a mess!!! But then even once arrests have been made I'm then going to be hanging in here discussing the hows and whys and waiting for court dates etc...

I feel like they're close, but then I wonder if I think that because I can't bear the thought of it being any other way??!!

spratsmum
05-14-2012, 02:00 AM
Holy Moley...If thid guy's sources are correct then this is......HUGE!

Poor Poor Allison.

Who is this Guy for Non Queenslanders?

Is he anyone of note?

Paul Tully is an Ipswich City Councillor, the city of Ipswich is very close to Brookfield.

Paul Tully has been a bit of a "celebrity" for a long time, he is the type of politician who likes to have a big presence, and has been, in the past, quite outrageous. In his defense though, he does champion the "underdog". Bit similar to Wilson Tuckey in Federal politics.

I have read what he said in this case, and I believe he might "know" something. His statements are very blunt in the recent post about Allison and tell very specific details. I won't be surprise if there is some truth in what he says.

CJ60
05-14-2012, 02:01 AM
Too funny! But cannot appear to make smilies work :-(

Well someone who usually loves to smile for the camera is soon going to have it wiped off his face

spratsmum
05-14-2012, 02:01 AM
I am just hanging in here today hoping that something is not far off. Anyone else feel the same?

the trouble is I feel like that everyday and go to bed hoping each tomorrow will be the "one"

UnfoldingTruth
05-14-2012, 02:02 AM
I can think of four people. Number five has me stumped. :waitasec:

I know, it's the bloke in the bus shelter! :what:

Lol! Nah, I wasn't really thinking people we know of..but I could be way off base.

Rational
05-14-2012, 02:03 AM
I need for this to be over... I've been online almost all day and my house is a mess!!! But then even once arrests have been made I'm then going to be hanging in here discussing the hows and whys and waiting for court dates etc...

I feel like they're close, but then I wonder if I think that because I can't bear the thought of it being any other way??!!

I know same here! Was going to do lots when I got home but unfortunately even when I wake up at night have to have a quick look on iPad to see if there is any news. Than lie awake running all scenarios through my head.

spratsmum
05-14-2012, 02:05 AM
I can think of four people. Number five has me stumped. :waitasec:

I know, it's the bloke in the bus shelter! :what:

My ideas on the 5 are :

1. GBC

2. Papabear

3. Mamabear

4. Sisterbear

5. Bedbear

I don't know whether I can post this? Apologies if I can't

marlywings
05-14-2012, 02:06 AM
I am just hanging in here today hoping that something is not far off. Anyone else feel the same?

Going by news reports, & really, that's all we can go by, media seems to be going with the idea that there will be an arrest this week with the forensics due back....can only hope they're correct.

Charges could be laid over the murder of Brookfield mum-of-three Allison Baden-Clay as early as this week with key test results due very soon.

Police said they were unlikely to make an arrest until they had the results of Mrs Baden-Clay’s autopsy and toxilogy tests.

The results are due some time this week with the usual turnaround for the tests two weeks.

http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/queensland/badenclay-tests-may-lead-to-killers-arrest-20120513-1ykec.html#ixzz1uoygsWjB

AllyG
05-14-2012, 02:07 AM
I like the cut of your gib! Welcome :greetings:

Ms Fawn
05-14-2012, 02:08 AM
Can anyone point me to a link with good quality close up picture of GBC and his parents at the funeral? or video? I would be very interested in looking at their facial expressions and body language.

UnfoldingTruth
05-14-2012, 02:09 AM
Your posts always interest me! Would you share with us your theory?

Hi Shelbinator.. I am really not sure.. I guess I don't necessarily subscribe to the whole Baden-clay clan theory cover up. But you know who knows! I have just had this eery feeling of multiple people. Not necessarily those we know or have mentioned. There are reasons for my thoughts, but nothing I can put down to fact and don't want to start the whole rumour thing based on that. I am really interested to see where this goes. I have had this feeling of something big when it all comes out. But will wait and see.

Neuromancer
05-14-2012, 02:10 AM
this face to face intense and prolonged act is what made me state earlier that I simply can't imagine GBC doing it....it is just so incredibly cold blooded and he doesnt come across like he has the capacity. I can't really say why I feel this but do feel it really strongly. It's not just his somewhat feminine demeanour (probably not the right description but I dont know how else to put it) I am also aware that this is often done by husbands against their wives so my thoughts about this don't really make sense I know


Have a look at these convicted murderers, esp the two wife killers John Sharpe and Mark Galante, who both do teary, pathetic sooky-la-la performances for camera.
http://sixtyminutes.ninemsn.com.au/stories/847286/unmasking-the-truth

Makara
05-14-2012, 02:12 AM
Interesting article.

Women's Killers Are Very Often Their Partners, A Study Finds

http://www.nytimes.com/specials/women/warchive/970331_1651.html

WheresColumbo
05-14-2012, 02:14 AM
Where can I see the link to the MBB (Mumma Bwana Bear) big pash in the carport? Anyone have any links please.

Humdinger
05-14-2012, 02:14 AM
Hi Shelbinator.. I am really not sure.. I guess I don't necessarily subscribe to the whole Baden-clay clan theory cover up. But you know who knows! I have just had this eery feeling of multiple people. Not necessarily those we know or have mentioned. There are reasons for my thoughts, but nothing I can put down to fact and don't want to start the whole rumour thing based on that. I am really interested to see where this goes. I have had this feeling of something big when it all comes out. But will wait and see.

Yeah I defs feel like there is something more than Allison's murder that will come out of this! I can't get my head around other theories though, anything else I think of just seems too far fetched - I'd love to do a massive list of theories on here, no matter how crazy they seem and just look at them all...

Humdinger
05-14-2012, 02:15 AM
Where can I see the link to the MMB (Mumma Bwana Bear) big pash in the carport? Anyone have any links please.

I missed this too and wanted to ask for a link but wasn't sure if I really wanted to see it IYKWIM LOL.

Blue Bottle
05-14-2012, 02:17 AM
I also don't think the media have been sensationalising the case or dragging GBC through the mud at all. In fact it has been discussed here that it is considered the media and the police are deliberately taking a low profile to prevent any accusations of trial by media.

I don't know anything about the Joanna Yeates case but I suspect the circumstances of the legal action might have been a bit different. Do you have more information on what actually happened in terms of the slander and defamation? The extent of it, the numbers of people and the reach of it?
I've been a lurker here for more years than I care to remember, regularly following certain cases but it wasn't until the Joanna Yeates case that I actually joined, only because I read something in one of the threads about her murder where I wanted to comment on.

The big difference with the Joanna Yeates case to Allison's murder case was that the landlord was initally arrested for the crime and the media went to town bagging him personally and exploring every avenue of his life and publishing it. They also freely published many hersay stories told by people who claimed to have known the landlord... over the top nasty defamation, not only by the media, but on internet forums too. It was nasty nasty nasty.

No trial date was set (to what I remember) and then not long after his arrest, the police let him go because they said he didn't do it and the things the media said about him changed dramatically. Then it wasn't that long after they arrested the rightful murderer who was someone unexpected and who had not been made mention of in any way before his actual arrest. It was quite a surprise. He's now sitting rotting in jail.

It was the newspapers, the media who were successfully sued and rightfully so because they ceratinly did overstep the mark.


Edit:
If I remember correctly, when the landlord was arrested for the murder he wasn't actually charged for it and then they let him go.
Something about how you can only hold someone for x number of days without making a charge. Ended up he was innocent.

mayday
05-14-2012, 02:18 AM
Hello All,


Have been reading here for a while but this is my first post. Given the topic of family psycopathy has been raised, and reading into the comment by the MP this afternoon (...up to five..) I was wondering whether QPS would be able to access any police records in Sth Africa if they existed? Not that anything would be admissible I imagine.

Does anyone know how that intercontinental stuff works?



The family is originally from Rhodesia now known as Zimbabwe ( not South Africa) and I am sure with the state the country is in - Mugabe probably had all records destroyed a long time ago. :what:

Limaes
05-14-2012, 02:18 AM
My ideas on the 5 are :

1. GBC

2. Papabear

3. Mamabear

4. Sisterbear

5. Bedbear

I don't know whether I can post this? Apologies if I can't

Hmm... what would they be charged with?

1. Murder/manslaughter, interfering with a corpse, obstruction of justice

2. Accessory after the fact, interfering with a corpse, obstruction of justice

3. Accessory after the fact, obstruction of justice

4. Obstruction of justice

5. Obstruction of justice - possibly accessory after the fact

Neuromancer
05-14-2012, 02:19 AM
If the 'love tap' rumour is likely to be true, a small female being punched in the face or side of head, by any male (even a pasty limp-wrist) would create potential for unexpected consequences. If the attacker delivered something more than a slap, they wouldn't have to be a big strong guy to do a lot of damage. The victim's brain can bounce inside their skull (along the lines of a knockout in boxing) and render them unconscious, doing damage or causing clots to the brain then, or other damage striking their head in the resulting fall. The artery in the neck can also rupture from any sudden forceful sideways jerking of the head. The initial blow or the unconscious fall could be just as bad as getting hit with an iron bar.

If something like this happened, the attacker could claim there was never any intention to kill the victim, simply delivering a single punch. There's been plenty of cases revolving around an unlikely single punch death of large solid males who were prepared for the blow, let alone a defenceless 60-ish kg woman (but fewer cases - or none I know of - dealing with the killer hiding the body of the victim).

There was a landmark case a few years back that led to a gov't ad campaign about "a single punch can kill", instigated by the sister of someone who died that way. The upshot of that is that it is harder to use that as defence now, because it can be considered public knowledge.

http://www.police.qld.gov.au/programs/cscp/personalSafety/youth/onePunch.htm

marlywings
05-14-2012, 02:19 AM
Where can I see the link to the MBB (Mumma Bwana Bear) big pash in the carport? Anyone have any links please.

If it's still there....

http://video.au.msn.com/watch/video/...mother/xp1r8ud

CoffeeDrinker
05-14-2012, 02:20 AM
I missed this too and wanted to ask for a link but wasn't sure if I really wanted to see it IYKWIM LOL.

Quite sure you will find it disgusting & very inappropriate unfortunately. MOO

Rational
05-14-2012, 02:21 AM
Can anyone point me to a link with good quality close up picture of GBC and his parents at the funeral? or video? I would be very interested in looking at their facial expressions and body language.

Plenty in thread 6 or on Courier Mail website.

UnfoldingTruth
05-14-2012, 02:21 AM
There was a landmark case a few years back that led to a gov't ad campaign about "a single punch can kill", instigated by the sister of someone who died that way. The upshot of that is that it is harder to use that as defence now, because it can be considered public knowledge.

http://www.police.qld.gov.au/programs/cscp/personalSafety/youth/onePunch.htm

Yes that was to do with the Mathew Stanley case. Punched at a Party by another youth. Think it was his Father actually that instigated the campaign.

AllyG
05-14-2012, 02:22 AM
I haven't done a lot of posting lately. Mostly that's because there hasn't been a lot to to talk about. No new information released by the police or the media. I've kind of skipped through the posts, missing some pages completely. I think that it was just becoming a bit overwhelming, thinking about Allison all the time, feeling helpless and clueless. However finding a link to the Tulley blog was very exciting today. So I went back and read over a few more posts.

Seriously, some of you are so clever, witty and hilarious. Some of you frustrate me, some of you I'd love to share a bottle of wine with, some of you I just want to marry.

Humdinger
05-14-2012, 02:22 AM
If it's still there....

http://video.au.msn.com/watch/video/...mother/xp1r8ud

Thanks, and yeah, that was disgusting! She totally staged that...

LisB
05-14-2012, 02:25 AM
Divorce is a much better option if one is unhappy in a marriage.

So very true

UnfoldingTruth
05-14-2012, 02:26 AM
I haven't done a lot of posting lately. Mostly that's because there hasn't been a lot to to talk about. No new information released by the police or the media. I've kind of skipped through the posts, missing some pages completely. I think that it was just becoming a bit overwhelming, thinking about Allison all the time, feeling helpless and clueless. However finding a link to the Tulley blog was very exciting today. So I went back and read over a few more posts.

Seriously, some of you are so clever, witty and hilarious. Some of you frustrate me, some of you I'd love to share a bottle of wine with, some of you I just want to marry.

Lol, wonder which category who fits into!

But I agree, I have dropped out a bit too. I think it got all a bit much. I too am interested in the Paul Tully blog. I do wonder if he is just shooting his mouth off, so to speak. But I actually feel there is probably something to it. I am sure he may know some things we don't.

factfinda
05-14-2012, 02:27 AM
Nah, they just log on to us ..... most up to date info - first port of call - Websleuths! Seen the stats on this site...

I can assure you this absolutely isn't the case. Why wade through thousands of posts lookings for grains of truth when you have first-hand access to primary sources of information?

Keyboredom
05-14-2012, 02:28 AM
There was a landmark case a few years back that led to a gov't ad campaign about "a single punch can kill", instigated by the sister of someone who died that way. The upshot of that is that it is harder to use that as defence now, because it can be considered public knowledge.

http://www.police.qld.gov.au/programs/cscp/personalSafety/youth/onePunch.htm

Good point :) But if a punch-too-far turns out to be the cause of death, and the killer isn't Gen Y and hasn't regularly used one of the media/platforms that campaign is targetting, their Barrister could pretty easily claim they never heard of the likelihood of a single punch being potentially fatal. I think it's a great campaign but not targetting the demographic of Allison's likely killer and nowhere near 'public knowledge'.

AllyG
05-14-2012, 02:29 AM
Lol, wonder which category who fits into!

But I agree, I have dropped out a bit too. I think it got all a bit much. I too am interested in the Paul Tully blog. I do wonder if he is just shooting his mouth off, so to speak. But I actually feel there is probably something to it. I am sure he may know some things we don't.
Hahahahaha well it's a bit hard to admit which ones I'd marry. Not sure which are male and female for the most part :D

From what I've seen on his blog he doesn't tend to run off at the mouth which, in my mind, gives him a degree of credibility. I see that he was wrong about information he was given by someone else, but this seems a bit different. One thing is for sure, I will be refreshing the Courier Mail website like a madwoman!

itsthevibe
05-14-2012, 02:30 AM
G'Day y'all! This is my first post.

My head is done in with this case! I first stumbled upon WS just after poor ABC was found under the bridge. I was gobsmacked that the CM had printed GBC as being 'DEVASTATED' at this dreadful find...note the use of the inverted commas! This is what started my googling around to find out if there were others out there who were reading between the lines as I was!

This site is mind-blowing and I have become totally obsessed ever since. You guys are amazing.

For the record, I believe 100% that GBC is the main perp, with the old NBC the other 'evil-doer'! No question in my mind. IMO

However, QPS are obviously being super, super thorough in gathering all the hard evidence in order to put these evil-doers away for life! Think Casey Anthony! I think I spied Columbo sneeking into HQ the other day! Hope so.

I reckon the deed was done in the heat of a terrible mix of explosive factors...infidelity, devastating financial problems, divorce looming, heated accusations, name-calling, anger beyond control...AND the kids ARE NOT AT HOME! No hushing... 'the kids are listening blah, blah, blah'. And too late he's strangled the life out of the poor, poor woman. The gutless mongrel then thinks of his wonderful reputation, calls big daddy-O, howling down the line ...'the b***h made me do it'! Yeah right...I watch too many real life crime shows. But still reckon that's what went down that terrible night.

Gawd I sure hope they do not get away with it. My heart goes out to the three little girls and ABC's family.

It's a simple, grassroots, practical explanation and as a few others have said sometimes the simplest explanation is the correct one. The details of how a body was disposed of and other extraneous factors may vary, but I believe this is the guts of what happened. At another time I'll explain a bit more about my thoughts based on personal experience. But I'll say it doesnt even take a lot of screaming and accusations to inflame someone of a certain type - like a narcissist or sociopath. Even a calm mention of something they don't want to hear (which needs to be discussed) can evoke a wild rage. Yet those same people can seem very sweet and mild mannered when they are out in public.

WheresColumbo
05-14-2012, 02:30 AM
If it's still there....

http://video.au.msn.com/watch/video/...mother/xp1r8ud

Thanks Marlywings. That's gross especially so, considering the circs :what:

possumheart
05-14-2012, 02:32 AM
I missed this too and wanted to ask for a link but wasn't sure if I really wanted to see it IYKWIM LOL.

It is pretty boring, I finally looked at it on the weekend and it was just stupid, it should have been edited out. But my interpretation of it was very much 'stand by your man' as others have said. It could mean nothing. It was just the weird context.

CoffeeDrinker
05-14-2012, 02:34 AM
I haven't done a lot of posting lately. Mostly that's because there hasn't been a lot to to talk about. No new information released by the police or the media. I've kind of skipped through the posts, missing some pages completely. I think that it was just becoming a bit overwhelming, thinking about Allison all the time, feeling helpless and clueless. However finding a link to the Tulley blog was very exciting today. So I went back and read over a few more posts.

Seriously, some of you are so clever, witty and hilarious. Some of you frustrate me, some of you I'd love to share a bottle of wine with, some of you I just want to marry.

So pleased you are back, you are very insightful! Also like to see Alicat back too at some stage.

willough
05-14-2012, 02:38 AM
Lol, wonder which category who fits into!

But I agree, I have dropped out a bit too. I think it got all a bit much. I too am interested in the Paul Tully blog. I do wonder if he is just shooting his mouth off, so to speak. But I actually feel there is probably something to it. I am sure he may know some things we don't.

I tell you.....If AllyG wants to marry me. I'm a running (again, like i'd run from GBC). I love her and all.....But, i'm a GURRRRRLLLL....and she's a GURRRLLLLLLL and if other GURRRLLLLs like the GURRLLLLL thing, that's OK. But im not into the GURRRRRLLLLLL thing.......Giggles

AllyG - We love you too........Big hugs xx Get a bottle of red, and ill run back to you baybee!!!! :)

Neuromancer
05-14-2012, 02:39 AM
He might have meant the flowers on top of her casket. Police investigating the JBR murder put microphones near the headstone of her grave trying to catch an "I'm sorry" confession.



Oh cool! What was the JBR case?

AllyG
05-14-2012, 02:41 AM
Awww thank you :coffeecup:

Sometimes I think I'm a bit too emotional for all of this. However the belief that someone will be arrested for Allison's murder keeps me coming back.

I have high hopes that some of the earlier crew who haven't been posting of late will find their way back once an arrest is made. Then we can all talk about what's happening, and hopefully debrief and let go of some sadness and anger.

Bayside
05-14-2012, 02:42 AM
If it's still there....

http://video.au.msn.com/watch/video/...mother/xp1r8ud

I am not going to watch it again as I dont have a strong stomach lol.

When I saw it the first time I thought how odd, something was not right about it.

I showed my husband and he said that is not passion, it is FEAR big mumma is showing.

I looked at it again and I agree, she looks like a woman who is scared and clinging on to her husband.

Greg
05-14-2012, 02:42 AM
Yeah I defs feel like there is something more than Allison's murder that will come out of this! I can't get my head around other theories though, anything else I think of just seems too far fetched - I'd love to do a massive list of theories on here, no matter how crazy they seem and just look at them all...

Maybe this site has a poll feAture and we run 2polls , who did it, and the motive

willough
05-14-2012, 02:43 AM
Oh cool! What was the JBR case?

Im thinking Jon Benet Ramsey (may be wrong though)