View Full Version : Australia - Allison Baden-Clay, 43, Brisbane QLD, 19 April 2012 - #7
Kimster
05-10-2012, 02:02 PM
Thank you for joining Websleuths! :welcome3:
Please remember the following when discussing the Allison Baden-Clay case:
Websleuths is a moderated forum. We strive to discuss cases in a friendly environment.
Our rules can be reviewed here: The Rules (PLEASE make sure you know the rules!)
Currently, we are considering Allison's husband to be a suspected person of interest in this case. There is a possible second party involved per MSM and it is okay to discuss that aspect, but please refrain from accusing anyone of murder at this juncture. Speculating is one thing, accusing is another.
Thread 1
Thread 2 (http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=170913&page=46)
Thread 3 (http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=171159&page=18)
Thread 4
Thread 5
Thread 6
REMEMBER: No cutting and pasting of comments from other social or media websites. You may paraphrase and provide a link.
The only social media sites allowed are those belonging to the victim, Gerard Baden-Clay and any named (by law enforcement) POI or Suspect, or site created and devoted to the murder of Allison.
Media/Timeline Reference Thread: CLICK HERE
Kimster
05-12-2012, 11:48 AM
http://resources3.news.com.au/images/2012/05/04/1226347/023543-allison-baden-clay-at-seven.jpg
http://resources3.news.com.au/images/2012/05/04/1226347/023543-allison-baden-clay-at-seven.jpg
Lu-Lu
05-12-2012, 11:49 AM
Now, maybe we do imprison more people as nowadays we are only sending them to prison for wot 20 years...GBC will be out by the time he is 60 odd?....so my point is....is it easier to send someone to 20 years jail rather than death?
This guy was sentenced to life, with parole after 13yrs. So, he's probably been out by now for some time. :(
I don't know how they sleep at night. I positively sobbed for what seemed like an eternity after sentencing. I was sent a letter a couple years ago requisting me to be a juror again for the supreme court. I, of course asked to be excused. I found the whole process traumatic enough, being a single girl in my very early 20's. And now, since having kids, I cry at any sappy sad moment in a tv show, movie, or even commerical. I know I wouldn't be able to keep my composure being a juror again.
maevelorg
05-12-2012, 11:50 AM
Totally agree with you 'how do they sleep at night'
kind of sort of the old argument when they once could use death as a sentence....
'Do you have any doubt in your mind that this man did this murder'? 'if you are 100% sure he did do it - remember you are about to send this man to death'!
Now, maybe we do imprison more people as nowadays we are only sending them to prison for wot 20 years...GBC will be out by the time he is 60 odd?....so my point is....is it easier to send someone to 20 years jail rather than death?
Idk...its such a horrible horrible field of work and thank God there are people out there who put their hand up to prosecute, defend and work with these people - cos no way would I want to....
The Federal Govt of Australia abolished the death penalty in 1973 and as such there exists no provision for the death penalty in any State or Territory.
Life imprisonment in many cases means files marked 'Never to be Released' and sometimes, depending on various factors, the defendant's sentencing can be cumulative if multiple charges involved. This means that multiple sentences can be added together simultaneously but limitations may apply depending on jurisdiction.
Nothing like the US though where I've seen people sentenced to a couple of hundred years for crimes!
BrizzychickinUSA
05-12-2012, 11:55 AM
[QUOTE=BrizzychickinUSA;7909984]
Now, maybe we do imprison more people as nowadays we are only sending them to prison for wot 20 years...GBC will be out by the time he is 60 odd?....so my point is....is it easier to send someone to 20 years jail rather than death?
QUOTE]
This guy was sentenced to life, with parole after 13yrs. So, he's probably been out by now for some time. :(
I don't know how they sleep at night. I positively sobbed for what seemed like an eternity after sentencing. I was sent a letter a couple years ago requisting me to be a juror again for the supreme court. I, of course asked to be excused. I found the whole process traumatic enough, being a single girl in my very early 20's. And now, since having kids, I cry at any sappy sad moment in a tv show, movie, or even commerical. I know I wouldn't be able to keep my composure being a juror again.
((((hugs)))) you poor thing...thats so unfair....
They still have the death penalty here....I personally agree with it....however, I can see the case against it...
I wish we could just have crappy nothing islands in the middle of nowhere to send these people...
one island for the druggies,
one for the murders,
one for the pedo's etc etc...let them fight their own battles, feed there own addictions and leave them there....maybe give them seeds to grow their own food....or just do a parachute drop of army rat packs....bugger giving them cooks/educational offices,air-con,tv, and other such 'necessities' all paid for by the had earning aussie tax payer....
Neuromancer
05-12-2012, 12:11 PM
[quote=Lu-Lu;7910033]
I wish we could just have crappy nothing islands in the middle of nowhere to send these people...
Lol they did. Called Australia.
And we flourished on the beaches and sent back Dame Edna and Neighbours.
CaseClosed
05-12-2012, 12:13 PM
Well, time to zzzzzzzz .... Good Night. Let's hope the next few days will bring good news from QPS.
CaseClosed
05-12-2012, 12:15 PM
[quote=BrizzychickinUSA;7910050]
Lol they did. Called Australia.
And we flourished on the beaches and sent back Dame Edna and Neighbours.
:floorlaugh: :floorlaugh: :floorlaugh:
Lu-Lu
05-12-2012, 12:21 PM
I wish we could just have crappy nothing islands in the middle of nowhere to send these people...
one island for the druggies,
one for the murders,
one for the pedo's etc etc...let them fight their own battles, feed there own addictions and leave them there....maybe give them seeds to grow their own food....or just do a parachute drop of army rat packs....bugger giving them cooks/educational offices,air-con,tv, and other such 'necessities' all paid for by the had earning aussie tax payer....
Wouldn't that be nice..? I get the whole whilst being in gaol having systems in place to rehibilitate them. But then again, prisoners seems to have greater access to further education and health care and recreational facilities, than people who are working hard earning an honest living and are just bearly keeping their heads above water. And can you believe that they then grip about the pettiest things..? http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/sunday-mail/whats-wrong-inside-inmate-gripes/story-e6frep2f-1226353797289
Originally Posted by BrizzychickinUSA
Lol they did. Called Australia.
And we flourished on the beaches and sent back Dame Edna and Neighbours.
Lol! Yes, but now we need another Island. The Lost Island would be perfect!
Anyway, I am off to bed. Happy Mother's day to everyone out there. Happy Mother's day to Allison. Hopefully the girls can be with Priscilla and Vanessa today.
BrizzychickinUSA
05-12-2012, 12:23 PM
[quote=Neuromancer;7910078]
:floorlaugh: :floorlaugh: :floorlaugh:
LOL...they used to send em to florida & Georgia too...
oh...boy Im so late....I got an appointment at 2....aaaghhhh
hope we get some more info tomorow aussie time.
Solaris
05-12-2012, 01:03 PM
Allison knew killer, police confident of arrest, GBC has not given statement to police.
http://www.news.com.au/national/killer-was-not-a-stranger-say-police/story-e6frfkvr-1226353911863
http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/queensland/killer-was-not-a-stranger-say-police/story-e6freoof-1226353771264
Ixnaye
05-12-2012, 01:10 PM
Today's Sunday Mail Headline..Allison 'knew killer' police set for arrest.
POLICE believe the person who murdered Allison Baden-Clay was known to her, and are quietly confident they will make an arrest in the near future.
I hope that justice will be done for Allison and her family very soon. And I hope her killer is feeling the pressure!
Neuromancer
05-12-2012, 01:17 PM
Today's Sunday Mail Headline..Allison 'knew killer' police set for arrest.
POLICE believe the person who murdered Allison Baden-Clay was known to her, and are quietly confident they will make an arrest in the near future.
I hope that justice will be done for Allison and her family very soon. And I hope her killer is feeling the pressure!
LOL yes
I get the feeling DS Ainsworth enjoys fishing...
and wants to drag his catch through Mother's Day first :)
Rational
05-12-2012, 01:19 PM
How come the police are now saying that GBC has not given a statement to them when in his first near Oscar winning performance he stated whilst shaking his head that 'I have told the Police everything I know'? :what:
Ixnaye
05-12-2012, 01:25 PM
How come the police are now saying that GBC has not given a statement to them when in his first near Oscar winning performance he stated whilst shaking his head that 'I have told the Police everything I know'? :what:
The media reports have always said that he has at no point given an official statement to police. And you have to wonder why any innocent person would avoid giving a statement to police.
Rational
05-12-2012, 01:35 PM
You are right, I was being sarcastic. On the one hand saying he has told them 'everything' publicly and despite having reported her missing, being at the police station several times still not have given a formal statement.
Ixnaye
05-12-2012, 01:38 PM
You are right, I was being sarcastic. On the one hand saying he has told them 'everything' publicly and despite having reported her missing, being at the police station several times still not have given a formal statement.
Yes you really have to wonder why he hasn't done so, if he is innocent and has nothing to hide then why avoid giving a statement to police.
HN man
05-12-2012, 04:46 PM
@Indogwetrust - late in the last thread you stated:- "If only to be pedantic Berry, he's an SC, not quite a QC, but you never know it may make a difference"
At the risk of being pedantic back at you, i think you will find an SC is the equivalent of a QC. In NSW they ceased the appointment of any new QC's in 1992 which were formally appointed by the Governor upon advice from the Attorney General.
The NSW Bar Association subsequently established it's own equivalent rank of SC. I believe
they did the same thing in QLD a couple of years later.
Refer below from QLD Bar Association website:-
In Queensland, Queen's Counsel were appointed by the Governor-in-Council upon advice from the Chief Justice of Queensland.* In 1994, the Bar Association established its own equivalent rank of Senior Counsel (SC) who are appointed by the Chief Justice after an exhaustive process of consultation with members of the profession and the judiciary.
I just detest such authorative misinformation, particularly when we have so few facts to work with.
HN_man is quite correct. QC = SC. I think the Republican movement was to blame for the change ...
GBC has hired himself a 1st class brief (or his solicitor has).
I think hiring legal eagles the way he has is standard practice amongst those with the funds to do so, particularly when you're going to be the first person the police will suspect. My cousin is a senior partner for probably the most prestigious law firm in Australia and he said to me never talk to the police except to give your name, address and date of birth and call him immediately (this was back in my protest days). SO GBC's actions in this regard seem reasonable to me.
HN man
05-12-2012, 05:19 PM
I really don't think anyone could have anticipated the immense amount of nationwide media interest in this case, least of all GBC. The pressure must be enormous on those associated with the crime.
Jaguar88
05-12-2012, 05:33 PM
HN_man is quite correct. QC = SC. I think the Republican movement was to blame for the change ...
GBC has hired himself a 1st class brief (or his solicitor has).
Yep, QCs, knighthoods disappeared in QLD around the same time
JK673
05-12-2012, 06:50 PM
I think hiring legal eagles the way he has is standard practice amongst those with the funds to do so, particularly when you're going to be the first person the police will suspect. My cousin is a senior partner for probably the most prestigious law firm in Australia and he said to me never talk to the police except to give your name, address and date of birth and call him immediately (this was back in my protest days). SO GBC's actions in this regard seem reasonable to me.
When you are brought in for questioning maybe, not before you call the police to report a missing person.......
Hawkins
05-12-2012, 06:54 PM
Mr Baden Clay is under no obligation to provide a statement. If he is to be charged with an offence then it is up to the Crown to prove each element of the offence beyond reasonable doubt. It is not the job of either he or his lawyers to disprove anything. He does not have to prove, or even comment on, where he was or what he was doing at any time. If he is to eventually appear in court it is highly unlikely that he will take the witness stand to give evidence. If any of these realities and rights appear to the wider public to be a expression of a consciousness of guilt then it is a good thing that he would be tried by only twelve people, all of whom will be required to objectively assess the evidence tested in court, and not the evidence alleged by media or public speculation. As to how a lawyer can represent a person who makes admissions in relation to aspects of an offence, that is the essence of the lawyer's role. The Crown can accuse a citizen of a crime and then utilise the entire resources of the State to try and convict them. A single citizen, regardless of their status, has nothing like this power. Often times a person will be accused by police and the Crown of either the wrong offence, or of too many counts, and it is the job of the defence lawyers to make sure that this is brought to light. But lawyers do not generally have hundreds of searchers, forensic services on call, a compliant media and the weight of public opinion behind them. They can only use the law, their intellect and cross-examination skill to stand between a citizen and the State. Each year many people in Qld are accused of offences they did not commit or of the wrong offences. Rape is a common charge which is brought against the innocent. Put yourself in the position of such a person and ask what sort of lawyer you would then want standing between you and the State, plus a media calling for your blood.
Hawkins
05-12-2012, 06:56 PM
If the QPS were close to an arrest then they would simply carry out the arrest, not proclaim it in the media.
Caviar
05-12-2012, 07:07 PM
Happy Mothers Day to all fellow mums out there. I awoke to the wonderful news that an arrest looks imminent....bloody marvellous. I will save my final rejoicing for the life sentence.
I hope the girls are surrounded my grand maternal love today...thinking of them.
Just caught up reading....cannot believe my post about how often strangulation occurs (without death) in an abusive relationship turned into some sordid threesome...what the hell?! Totally did not suggest this!
Talking about abusive relationships, when i came home feeling beautiful with a lovely new hair do, my ex partner started world war 3. He much preferred me looking dowdy. A new hair do had to mean a new man and his jealousy was insane.
If GBC was like my ex, insecure and controlling, the hair do may have been enough to spark a violent rage. IMO.
Keyboredom
05-12-2012, 07:24 PM
Hmmm, think I'd rather the threesome than an argument over a hair-do phobia :moo: some blokes are a serious worry :(
Keentoknow
05-12-2012, 07:54 PM
LOL yes
I get the feeling DS Ainsworth enjoys fishing...
and wants to drag his catch through Mother's Day first :)
DS Ainsworth has been resposible for some big catches. He will get the catch of the day. A man to be well respected.:jail:
Fuskier
05-12-2012, 07:56 PM
Mr Baden Clay is under no obligation to provide a statement. If he is to be charged with an offence then it is up to the Crown to prove each element of the offence beyond reasonable doubt. It is not the job of either he or his lawyers to disprove anything. He does not have to prove, or even comment on, where he was or what he was doing at any time. If he is to eventually appear in court it is highly unlikely that he will take the witness stand to give evidence. If any of these realities and rights appear to the wider public to be a expression of a consciousness of guilt then it is a good thing that he would be tried by only twelve people, all of whom will be required to objectively assess the evidence tested in court, and not the evidence alleged by media or public speculation. As to how a lawyer can represent a person who makes admissions in relation to aspects of an offence, that is the essence of the lawyer's role. The Crown can accuse a citizen of a crime and then utilise the entire resources of the State to try and convict them. A single citizen, regardless of their status, has nothing like this power. Often times a person will be accused by police and the Crown of either the wrong offence, or of too many counts, and it is the job of the defence lawyers to make sure that this is brought to light. But lawyers do not generally have hundreds of searchers, forensic services on call, a compliant media and the weight of public opinion behind them. They can only use the law, their intellect and cross-examination skill to stand between a citizen and the State. Each year many people in Qld are accused of offences they did not commit or of the wrong offences. Rape is a common charge which is brought against the innocent. Put yourself in the position of such a person and ask what sort of lawyer you would then want standing between you and the State, plus a media calling for your blood.
Thanks HAWKINS for clarifying that the function of a Lawyer/Barrister is to stand between The Accused and The State - to ensure that Justice is done and the charges are proved beyond reasonable doubt. Their tool of trade is The Law, not lynch mob mentality.
Look forward to reading your inserts. They bridge our gaps in knowledge just where we need it. Thank you.
Liadan
05-12-2012, 08:04 PM
While I am really happy about the Courier Mail's proclaimation that an arrest will be made soon - I just can't help thinking that the police made a statement such 'yes we are getting there' or something quite mild and the paper has blown the statement up for headlines.
I love the fact that those involved will be shaking in their shoes but until I hear Aisworth say 'we are about to make an arrest' I don't hold much faith in the headlines. I do think the media have been very considerate to he family - generally by now we would see the whole life portraits of the suspected splashed over the news.
But I think like Hawkins said the QPS don't need to use the media to put the fear of hell into someone, they could simply say we are closing in and intend to make an arrest. (Then there would be a big shizzle in someones pants. )
DS Ainsworth has been resposible for some big catches. He will get the catch of the day. A man to be well respected.:jail:
Well said!
However, I have no respect for a man that defends a monster that abducts a baby girl, bites her, murders her and throws her on the roof of a toilet block.
Its his job, not a choice, really, everyone is entitled to a defence, no matter how abhorent he thinks it is.
Happy Mothers Day to all fellow mums out there. I awoke to the wonderful news that an arrest looks imminent....bloody marvellous. I will save my final rejoicing for the life sentence.
I hope the girls are surrounded my grand maternal love today...thinking of them.
Just caught up reading....cannot believe my post about how often strangulation occurs (without death) in an abusive relationship turned into some sordid threesome...what the hell?! Totally did not suggest this!
Talking about abusive relationships, when i came home feeling beautiful with a lovely new hair do, my ex partner started world war 3. He much preferred me looking dowdy. A new hair do had to mean a new man and his jealousy was insane.
If GBC was like my ex, insecure and controlling, the hair do may have been enough to spark a violent rage. IMO.
Right back at you Caviar!
Wishing all of you mum's out there a happy mothers day..
I am looking forward to spending time with my 2 beautiful girls today; I cherish them dearly.
This year, special thoughts not only to 3 little girls, and a loving mum who will never be able to celebrate this day together again, but to all mothers who have lost daughters, and daughters who have lost mum's ......
Have a wonderful day!
pugsandfrogs
05-12-2012, 08:56 PM
If the QPS were close to an arrest then they would simply carry out the arrest, not proclaim it in the media.
Perhaps to flush out more information. Make the perp (whoever it may be) get nervous and make a mistake.
Remember Kiesha Abrahams? NSW police knew who the killer was all along, but they waited months. Then the mother and step father made a fatal mistake.
plentyofnous
05-12-2012, 08:56 PM
Hi All
Long time lurker, first post. IMO, this is a complicated case, don t think the Police have much to go on and are looking desperate for evidence, for such a high profile case they need to be very careful not to jump too quickly as GBC s legal team will be ready to pounce. It must be remembered that Police, even seasoned Detectives don t normally have any legal qualifications and that the Courts will determine guilt, not the Police and the media. They will not want the perp to escape incarceration or be allowed bail ( where he/she will be able to liase with legal team more freely so will be building solid case which will be checked and double checked.
Most interesting, if GBC is innocent, they are dragging him ( and his family incl 3 little girls ) through the mud from which he/they will never recover.
What did happen, IMO is that there was a fight,she was seeing another as well, she threatened to leave , with the kids and money and he cracked. I think its that simple but he was very lucky that they didn t find her earlier and that evidence has been disposed of and eroded over time.
pugsandfrogs
05-12-2012, 08:59 PM
While I am really happy about the Courier Mail's proclaimation that an arrest will be made soon - I just can't help thinking that the police made a statement such 'yes we are getting there' or something quite mild and the paper has blown the statement up for headlines.
I love the fact that those involved will be shaking in their shoes but until I hear Aisworth say 'we are about to make an arrest' I don't hold much faith in the headlines. I do think the media have been very considerate to he family - generally by now we would see the whole life portraits of the suspected splashed over the news.
But I think like Hawkins said the QPS don't need to use the media to put the fear of hell into someone, they could simply say we are closing in and intend to make an arrest. (Then there would be a big shizzle in someones pants. )
Maybe that was what the 10 minute discussion with GBC at his parents house yesterday was?
Maybe that was what the 10 minute discussion with GBC at his parents house yesterday was?
Well, that could be the reason he didn't invite them in for tea and scones!
factfinda
05-12-2012, 09:05 PM
Not sure if this has been clarified before, but the reason for the comment from police regarding "a personal safety strategy for those exercising in isolated areas such as on bike paths or along river walkways, advising them to stay aware of their surroundings while maintaining a "streetwise" appearance" is because many residents had been asking whether the area was safe or whether a random killer was on the loose. Even if the killer in this case is not considered a threat to any other resident, it would be irresponsible of police to say there was no danger to anyone in the area - ever. Thus, police wanted to remind people of basic safety and common sense, otherwise if someone was out walking in a remote area and was attacked (by someone not related to this case), then the victim could say "well, we were told it was safe here so this is why I went walking alone at midnight, etc".
Ixnaye
05-12-2012, 09:14 PM
Unfortunately I agree that the headline of today's Sunday Mail is merely an attempt to rattle the cage of the culprit/s and keep the pressure on them. If they had enough evidence they would have arrested someone not just be talking about doing it. Fingers crossed they will be able to put all the pieces together soon and have an air tight case.
Personally I think Mr Baden-Clay Senior might be involved in this. A friend of mine used to work with him when he was in the insurance game and he can't understand why NGC and EBC would have been working in GBC's business at their age in life. My friend is the same age as them and he has been long retired and living the good life and he thought the Baden-Clays would have long been doing so too. Especially since NBC used to act as though he was somebody even way back then. My friend thinks that the only reason that they would have been working in the real estate business is because they had financially backed it so it was in their own best interests to be in there and working.
Now if the marriage was on the rocks and say ABC had decided to actually end the marriage and get a divorce then they would have to divide up assets etc and that would have no doubt jeopardised an already struggling business.
Maybe NBC knew ABC was home alone and the kids were at a sleepover so he went to speak with her about the divorce prospect, hoping to change her mind. ABC fed up with her cheating husband and sick of her in laws interference and domineering ways stands up for herself and an argument ensues.......NBC loses his temper and.......
Just throwing it out there.
Inanna
05-12-2012, 09:17 PM
Thank God for Hawkins!
I want to say again caution has to be exercised given this thread does not have the full information.
I think the reason why the police came immediately was likely because it was clear that something had gone down at the house. (the family home of A & G). GBC made a 000 call because it was obvious something violent/critical had occurred. NOT because his wife was an hour late back from her morning walk. Yes, it could have been part of the "disposal" plan... Or it could be that he knew nothing...
It is necessary for the QP to have all the bows tied.
I suggest that GBC isn't the killer but he knows & the QPS know who is. It just requires ensuring it is proven...
GBC profiles not as the perpetrator but as someone who has secrets that he doesn't want made public. I think his connection with this (apart from his spouse) is business dealings or a crime of passion from the OW...
IF TW is the OW - she is highly passionate and driven... if she did it I would say it was accidental. Perhaps she drove the pajero with the body in it...dumped it & returned the car back... This is why doors were open etc. As for strength. Adrenaline does amazing things. Forensics will know if her body was immersed in water, or if she was under the bridge for some days. This is all known now.
If the killer is not known to "us" - I still suggest this is probably what happened. The family car was used to dispose of the body.
I think also that GBC was living with his parents - and thus he has an alibi. However, I am sure he knows the killer. GBC's skeletons will all be clanging in a closet about to open - thus he is bunkered down.
I think that the visit was to advise an arrest is imminent so the press are going to go crazy...
plentyofnous
05-12-2012, 09:24 PM
Really, if the Police are closing down roundabouts 3 weeks after event, looking for clues, don t think we will see an arrest soon
oreily85
05-12-2012, 09:32 PM
IF TW is the OW...
Huh? Who or what is a TW and an OW?
plentyofnous
05-12-2012, 09:36 PM
think it is tm and "other woman"
Limaes
05-12-2012, 09:39 PM
Thank God for Hawkins!
I want to say again caution has to be exercised given this thread does not have the full information.
I think the reason why the police came immediately was likely because it was clear that something had gone down at the house. (the family home of A & G). GBC made a 000 call because it was obvious something violent/critical had occurred. NOT because his wife was an hour late back from her morning walk. Yes, it could have been part of the "disposal" plan... Or it could be that he knew nothing...
It is necessary for the QP to have all the bows tied.
I suggest that GBC isn't the killer but he knows & the QPS know who is. It just requires ensuring it is proven...
GBC profiles not as the perpetrator but as someone who has secrets that he doesn't want made public. I think his connection with this (apart from his spouse) is business dealings or a crime of passion from the OW...
IF TW is the OW - she is highly passionate and driven... if she did it I would say it was accidental. Perhaps she drove the pajero with the body in it...dumped it & returned the car back... This is why doors were open etc. As for strength. Adrenaline does amazing things. Forensics will know if her body was immersed in water, or if she was under the bridge for some days. This is all known now.
If the killer is not known to "us" - I still suggest this is probably what happened. The family car was used to dispose of the body.
I think also that GBC was living with his parents - and thus he has an alibi. However, I am sure he knows the killer. GBC's skeletons will all be clanging in a closet about to open - thus he is bunkered down.
I think that the visit was to advise an arrest is imminent so the press are going to go crazy...
Good post, that is possible but the thing is TM seems to have spoken with police at greater length than GBC and for most of it, without a lawyer.
GBC hired a lawyer almost immediately and he was the one with scratches on his face. Which either means he is the killer or a coward...or both.
Its his job, not a choice, really, everyone is entitled to a defence, no matter how abhorent he thinks it is.
I know...
Back at the end of Thread 6 we were discussing this; I'm not a lawyer - I can't even understand half of Hawkin's posts!! Thanks you Hawkins ( whatever your profession is) and all others - I am trying to get my head around what you say.
I just feel that if someone like PD ever had to go through what this little baby's mum has ( it would destroy me if I lost one of my children, especially under circumstances like this) would it be enough to make him switch camps? Prosecute, not defend?
And I am still trying to make sense of Hawkin's post - that a person can admit they murdered someone, say where they hid the body, and the lawyer has to keep quiet.. unless they think they will kill again. I just can't get my head around it.
So, for instance, say the police eventually arrest the person they think killed Allison. Even if they have admitted to their lawyer that they killed her - but want to deny it, can they go into court and lie under oath - and their lawyer ( or barrister ??) know they are lying?
I think a lot of people on this forum are just mum's like Allison, and want to see her murderer caught, and put away for a very long time....thinking with our hearts, not our heads..
plentyofnous
05-12-2012, 09:47 PM
What do I do if my client confesses guilt to me but wants to plead not guilty?
According to the Qld Solicitors' Rule 15.2 you have a choice as to how to proceed.
You can cease to act provided there is sufficent time for another lawyer to be briefed prior to the hearing and the client does not object (see 15.2.1); or
You can continue to act and put the Crown to proof, but there are limitations placed on your defence. You cannot, for example, put an argument that is inconsistent with what you know to be true. These limitations are spelled out in Solicitors' Rule 15.2.2 (a)-(c).
:woohoo:Good post, that is possible but the thing is TM seems to have spoken with police at greater length than GBC and for most of it, without a lawyer.
GBC hired a lawyer almost immediately and he was the one with scratches on his face. Which either means he is the killer or a coward...or both.
Or TM doesn't want to spend money on a lawyer.
This guy was sentenced to life, with parole after 13yrs. So, he's probably been out by now for some time. :(
I don't know how they sleep at night. I positively sobbed for what seemed like an eternity after sentencing. I was sent a letter a couple years ago requisting me to be a juror again for the supreme court. I, of course asked to be excused. I found the whole process traumatic enough, being a single girl in my very early 20's. And now, since having kids, I cry at any sappy sad moment in a tv show, movie, or even commerical. I know I wouldn't be able to keep my composure being a juror again.
Lu-Lu,
Allison's case upsets me; I can't imagine what it would be like being on a jury for this horrible, horrible crime. How on earth can you come up with a defence like 'she provoked me' And you were so young...
And this man could now be on the streets again. So wrong - has no right to be alive himself, IMO. Thank you for sharing this - so very, very traumatic for you. I don't ever want to be called for jury duty; I would not be a good juror. As stated before, my decisions would be guided by my heart and not my head : (
CaseClosed
05-12-2012, 09:57 PM
I know...
Back at the end of Thread 6 we were discussing this; I'm not a lawyer - I can't even understand half of Hawkin's posts!! Thanks you Hawkins ( whatever your profession is) and all others - I am trying to get my head around what you say.
I just feel that if someone like PD ever had to go through what this little baby's mum has ( it would destroy me if I lost one of my children, especially under circumstances like this) would it be enough to make him switch camps? Prosecute, not defend?
And I am still trying to make sense of Hawkin's post - that a person can admit they murdered someone, say where they hid the body, and the lawyer has to keep quiet.. unless they think they will kill again. I just can't get my head around it.
So, for instance, say the police eventually arrest the person they think killed Allison. Even if they have admitted to their lawyer that they killed her - but want to deny it, can they go into court and lie under oath - and their lawyer ( or barrister ??) know they are lying?
I think a lot of people on this forum are just mum's like Allison, and want to see her murderer caught, and put away for a very long time....thinking with our hearts, not our heads..
I understand exactly what you are saying, however, there is always someone who has to do the so called "dirty/ugly jobs" in our society. Also, in this country the Law works on the basis that you are "presumed innocent" and as such, the prosecution has to prove otherwise. I don't envy the role of a defence lawyer ... it must be terribly difficult for them to have to keep quiet about what they know, but I do understand it. Many innocent people have ended up in jail for long periods of time, but now thanks to DNA and other modern technologies, they are proven innocent. Imaging their defence team, believing that the person is innocent, how they must feel when they loose their cases. I'm sure defence lawyers have a conscience and are not inhumane, but they have to abide by what the Law stipulates. It goes both ways.
oreily85
05-12-2012, 10:07 PM
Good post, that is possible but the thing is TM seems to have spoken with police at greater length than GBC and for most of it, without a lawyer.
GBC hired a lawyer almost immediately and he was the one with scratches on his face. Which either means he is the killer or a coward...or both.
How do we know someone didn't attack Allison and he tried to stop it resulting in getting scratched... I know, I know.. Everything GBC has done doesn't seem like the actions of an innocent man... However, he doesn't strike me as a direct guilty one either. Sure, he's somehow involved and even tho I have no reasons besides gut instinct, I just think he's covering for someone else.. *cough* a snr member of the fam perhaps *cough*
I've wrangled my way out of jury duty several times but I'd quite like to be involved in this one. Mainly to find out the facts that we wish we all knew!
Lurker on Websleuths
05-12-2012, 10:11 PM
:woohoo:
Or TM doesn't want to spend money on a lawyer.
It is believed by me and others that TM has hired a lawyer to represent her interests in this matter .
Limaes
05-12-2012, 10:11 PM
We don't get the Courier Mail where I live. The interview with Allison's best friend is only available in print. If anyone reads it can you please give a recap of what's in it.
Thanks!
CaseClosed
05-12-2012, 10:13 PM
How do we know someone didn't attack Allison and he tried to stop it resulting in getting scratched... I know, I know.. Everything GBC has done doesn't seem like the actions of an innocent man... However, he doesn't strike me as a direct guilty one either. Sure, he's somehow involved and even tho I have no reasons besides gut instinct, I just think he's covering for someone else.. *cough* a snr member of the fam perhaps *cough*
Looking at the photos of the funeral, the big Bwana does not look concerned at all IMO. On the other hand, the husband seems very concerned (more than sad) and also almost like saying "sorry!" to the coffin and to the girls. I think that someone helped him after the fact, but time will tell.
I think hiring legal eagles the way he has is standard practice amongst those with the funds to do so, particularly when you're going to be the first person the police will suspect. My cousin is a senior partner for probably the most prestigious law firm in Australia and he said to me never talk to the police except to give your name, address and date of birth and call him immediately (this was back in my protest days). SO GBC's actions in this regard seem reasonable to me.
Thanks SKMA,
Personally, the only reason for me to just give my name, address, DOB and call my lawyer would be if I was guilty! If innocent, nothing to worry about. JMO.
I know that everyone is saying it was wise, as he would be the prime suspect, but the only thing on my mind so soon after my wife's disappearance would be her welfare - FIND HER, for god's sake!
indogwetrust
05-12-2012, 10:13 PM
At the risk of being pedantic back at you, i think you will find an SC is the equivalent of a QC.
I just detest such authorative misinformation, particularly when we have so few facts to work with.
This was my point, hence, my use of the word 'pedantic'. GBC's counsel IS an SC, not a QC in the pedantic sense of the word, though in all practicalities, this is the same thing.
This was not intended to be, nor was, 'authoritative misinformation' - I prefaced and qualified my comment clearly. My point was to illustrate his counsel's proper title i.e this is a 'fact we have to work with'.
This is the terminology now used, except for those barristers who where already a QC before the change was made and they could choose to either retain the title or move to SC.
Woah back a bit next time and take a closer look.
plentyofnous
05-12-2012, 10:13 PM
If the Police turned up, he said my wifes missing, had scratches on his face and torso, and her car / his car had been sighted at a roundabout when he said he was asleep, we would all be talking about his upcoming trial. Don t think he is covering for anybody, think he has just shut up, not said much at all, and is acting under his very expensive advice. IMO he may be playing the "depression" card to create REASONABLE DOUBT
Limaes
05-12-2012, 10:17 PM
How do we know someone didn't attack Allison and he tried to stop it resulting in getting scratched... I know, I know.. Everything GBC has done doesn't seem like the actions of an innocent man... However, he doesn't strike me as a direct guilty one either. Sure, he's somehow involved and even tho I have no reasons besides gut instinct, I just think he's covering for someone else.. *cough* a snr member of the fam perhaps *cough*
That may be true too. If it is, he is one hell of a weakling to not be able to stop a cat fight turning into murder.
I respect your opinion but I still feel that GBC is the 'main' player. :)
CaseClosed
05-12-2012, 10:18 PM
If the Police turned up, he said my wifes missing, had scratches on his face and torso, and her car / his car had been sighted at a roundabout when he said he was asleep, we would all be talking about his upcoming trial. Don t think he is covering for anybody, think he has just shut up, not said much at all, and is acting under his very expensive advice. IMO he may be playing the "depression" card to create REASONABLE DOUBT
I can see "temporary insanity" coming up (the pressures of life, failing business, separation, etc. sent him over the edge, blah blah blah)
jlydia
05-12-2012, 10:20 PM
We don't get the Courier Mail where I live. The interview with Allison's best friend is only available in print. If anyone reads it can you please give a recap of what's in it.
Thanks!
It's pretty crap to be honest. Goes on about Mother's Day and handmade cards and a family get together. Does mention that ABC's dad is turning 72 today, but apart from that, nothing that you can't read online.
Limaes
05-12-2012, 10:23 PM
It's pretty crap to be honest. Goes on about Mother's Day and handmade cards and a family get together. Does mention that ABC's dad is turning 72 today, but apart from that, nothing that you can't read online.
Thanks jlydia, but they don't have the entire article online, only a portion of it.
I was just wondering if she went into anymore detail about Allison's plans around that time E.G sleepover.
jlydia
05-12-2012, 10:24 PM
Thanks jlydia, but they don't have the entire article online, only a portion of it.
I was just wondering if she went into anymore detail about Allison's plans around that time E.G sleepover.
Nothing at all. I'll try and retype it . ..
plentyofnous
05-12-2012, 10:25 PM
"temporary insanity" is probably better called provocation, think he may have left his run for that a little too late, he would have been better cooperating immediately, think provocation defence has been modified recently
BrizzychickinUSA
05-12-2012, 10:30 PM
I can see "temporary insanity" coming up (the pressures of life, failing business, separation, etc. sent him over the edge, blah blah blah)
oooooohhhhh yeah.....so can I....
jlydia
05-12-2012, 10:31 PM
I figured tinypic is faster.. .
http://i45.tinypic.com/3582om9.jpg
plentyofnous
05-12-2012, 10:33 PM
3.22 The Queensland provision specifies three elements for murder to be
reduced to manslaughter. The defendant must kill:
(1) ‘in the heat of passion’;
(2) in circumstances where the passion has been caused by a ‘sudden
provocation’; and
(3) before there is time for the defendant’s ‘passion to cool’.
It is believed by me and others that TM has hired a lawyer to represent her interests in this matter .
Only more recently though.
plentyofnous
05-12-2012, 10:36 PM
3.35 The statistical information available to the Commission suggests that in
Queensland two main groups take advantage of the plea of provocation. The
first group are men who kill a partner (or former partner or rival) at or after
separation. In all these cases the central dynamic is the exercise by the partner
(or former partner) of her right to personal autonomy and the man’s denial of
her right to autonomy.
67
plentyofnous
05-12-2012, 10:36 PM
3.35 The statistical information available to the Commission suggests that in
Queensland two main groups take advantage of the plea of provocation. The
first group are men who kill a partner (or former partner or rival) at or after
separation. In all these cases the central dynamic is the exercise by the partner
(or former partner) of her right to personal autonomy and the man’s denial of
her right to autonomy.
67
HN man
05-12-2012, 10:36 PM
This was my point, hence, my use of the word 'pedantic'. GBC's counsel IS an SC, not a QC in the pedantic sense of the word, though in all practicalities, this is the same thing.
This was not intended to be, nor was, 'authoritative misinformation' - I prefaced and qualified my comment clearly. My point was to illustrate his counsel's proper title i.e this is a 'fact we have to work with'.
This is the terminology now used, except for those barristers who where already a QC before the change was made and they could choose to either retain the title or move to SC.
Woah back a bit next time and take a closer look.
Selective quoting ..... Read your full post, fairly apparent you didn't know the difference and you had attempted to correct another ..... No big deal
CaseClosed
05-12-2012, 10:38 PM
I figured tinypic is faster.. .
http://i45.tinypic.com/3582om9.jpg
... Gerard will have to step up now and play both roles in the future ???? ....
Does the family believe that he will be around for a long time ?????
Fuskier
05-12-2012, 10:42 PM
I've wrangled my way out of jury duty several times but I'd quite like to be involved in this one. Mainly to find out the facts that we wish we all knew!
We might never find out the facts. GBC does not have to speak. So accomplices may choose to remain silent too. The onus of proof on evidence gained is on the Police and the Prosecution at Court. Methinks The Law needs to be reviewed and changed.
Limaes
05-12-2012, 10:43 PM
... Gerard will have to step up now and play both roles in the future ???? ....
Does the family believe that he will be around for a long time ?????
What the...? :waitasec:
jlydia
05-12-2012, 10:44 PM
I'm more surprised by what wasn't in the article. Who does she think did it? Was it usual for ABC to take night walks? What ABC happy because of the separation? What were the last texts with ABC? What has been her opinion of GBC?
I think the friend has a lot more to say but none of it can in all likelihood, be published at this stage. :waitasec:
CaseClosed
05-12-2012, 10:45 PM
3.22 The Queensland provision specifies three elements for murder to be
reduced to manslaughter. The defendant must kill:
(1) ‘in the heat of passion’;
(2) in circumstances where the passion has been caused by a ‘sudden
provocation’; and
(3) before there is time for the defendant’s ‘passion to cool’.
The question here is "how long is enough time for the passion to cool" ... hitting someone over the head once (which takes a few seconds) versus strangling (which takes minutes) ... would the "mode" by which someone was killed have a bearing? I guess it would.
http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/queensland/badenclay-tests-may-lead-to-killers-arrest-20120513-1ykec.html
Nothing new in this new article.
indogwetrust
05-12-2012, 10:49 PM
Selective quoting ..... Read your full post, fairly apparent you didn't know the difference and you had attempted to correct another ..... No big deal
My 'full post' and my explanation support one another.
But what is 'fairly apparent' is that you:
1.don't know the meaning of 'pedantic'.
2. don't know when to apologise, when clearly, an apology was required.
Sure ... no big deal, just your big ego.
CaseClosed
05-12-2012, 10:52 PM
My 'full post' and my explanation support one another.
But what is 'fairly apparent' is that you:
1.don't know the meaning of 'pedantic'.
2. don't know when to apologise, when clearly, an apology was required.
Sure ... no big deal, just your big ego.
Common kids, stop the fighting, it's Mother's Day!! :peace:
I understand exactly what you are saying, however, there is always someone who has to do the so called "dirty/ugly jobs" in our society. Also, in this country the Law works on the basis that you are "presumed innocent" and as such, the prosecution has to prove otherwise. I don't envy the role of a defence lawyer ... it must be terribly difficult for them to have to keep quiet about what they know, but I do understand it. Many innocent people have ended up in jail for long periods of time, but now thanks to DNA and other modern technologies, they are proven innocent. Imaging their defence team, believing that the person is innocent, how they must feel when they loose their cases. I'm sure defence lawyers have a conscience and are not inhumane, but they have to abide by what the Law stipulates. It goes both ways.
I think because of why we are here ( the awful thing that has happened to Allison) the 'emotional influence' plays a major part in all of the judgements I make. Wrong, I know.
I agree - it is awful to think that people have spent many years in prison for crimes they did not commit. Thank goodness for forensics - help in proving the innocent are innocent - and the guilty are guilty!
I hope and pray there is enough solid evidence ( forensics, an accomplice willing to point the finger ' I was there, saw him/her do it' and admission of guilt!) in order to get the right result in this case, and that the sentence they receive fits the crime that they have committed.
Send them where the sun don't shine, for a very long time!
OMG - imagine if I were called up for jury duty on this case!! I would be lynched - 'she's got the murderer hung, drawn and quartered before they have opened the doors' - just joking!
Because of the attention it has received - would the case go to trial elsewhere in Australia?
Thanks, Caseload!
Limaes
05-12-2012, 10:53 PM
I'm more surprised by what wasn't in the article. Who does she think did it? Was it usual for ABC to take night walks? What ABC happy because of the separation? What were the last texts with ABC? What has been her opinion of GBC?
I think the friend has a lot more to say but none of it can in all likelihood, be published at this stage. :waitasec:
In the online portion she says Ms Walker said one of the last times she had coffee with her best friend; there was no sign of trouble.
``She said things were good. She was happy,'' Mrs Walker said.
``It (her death) was a complete shock to all of us.''
possumheart
05-12-2012, 10:55 PM
... Gerard will have to step up now and play both roles in the future ???? ....
Does the family believe that he will be around for a long time ?????
I was surpised to see that also. I am sure it will be a big shock to many if he is innocent. But he won't be the first person hung by the court of popular opinion for reacting to things in a way that seems strange to outsiders.
CoffeeDrinker
05-12-2012, 10:57 PM
It's pretty crap to be honest. Goes on about Mother's Day and handmade cards and a family get together. Does mention that ABC's dad is turning 72 today, but apart from that, nothing that you can't read online.
I really feel for Allison's dad (& her mum) as it is his birthday. How sad, he looks understandably totally devastated.
Limaes
05-12-2012, 10:58 PM
I was surpised to see that also. I am sure it will be a big shock to many if he is innocent. But he won't be the first person hung by the court of popular opinion for reacting to things in a way that seems strange to outsiders.
A big big shock :what:
CaseClosed
05-12-2012, 10:58 PM
I think because of why we are here ( the awful thing that has happened to Allison) the 'emotional influence' plays a major part in all of the judgements I make. Wrong, I know.
I agree - it is awful to think that people have spent many years in prison for crimes they did not commit. Thank goodness for forensics - help in proving the innocent are innocent - and the guilty are guilty!
I hope and pray there is enough solid evidence ( forensics, an accomplice willing to point the finger ' I was there, saw him/her do it' and admission of guilt!) in order to get the right result in this case, and that the sentence they receive fits the crime that they have committed.
Send them where the sun don't shine, for a very long time!
OMG - imagine if I were called up for jury duty on this case!! I would be lynched - 'she's got the murderer hung, drawn and quartered before they have opened the doors' - just joking!
Because of the attention it has received - would the case go to trial elsewhere in Australia?
Thanks, Caseload!
I understand. - I asked the same question a while back and a member explained that "no, it will be tried in Brisbane".
plentyofnous
05-12-2012, 11:00 PM
Dr Patel, tried in Brisbane, Gordon Nuttall tried in Brisbane....If charged he will be tried in Brisbane..if convicted may give avenue to appeal to higher court
I find it hard to believe that the media are still reporting two different scenarios for the way Allison was last seen by GBC. Some still say he saw her going for a walk at 10pm. Some still say he saw her watching TV at 10pm.
The parents said he told them she went for a walk and didn't come back. That doesn't say morning or night though.
Though At least that small point would have been straight by now
The gossip around legal circles is GBC did it accidentally and Bwana was called in to help clean up the mess but police have no evidence. Old man spotted sitting in bus shelter outside village at the roundabout late Thusday night or early FRiday morning. Female driver stopped to see if he was ok. Apparently he acted oddly and she thought he might have been crazy. Police are looking for anyone else who might have spotted him.
Make of it what you will.
Edited to add: the legal eagles say it's wasn't strangulation but rather a "love tap gone wrong". I'm quoting here.
Common kids, stop the fighting, it's Mother's Day!! :peace:
Bahahahahahha!
I love you guys!
CaseClosed
05-12-2012, 11:09 PM
I find it hard to believe that the media are still reporting two different scenarios for the way Allison was last seen by GBC. Some still say he saw her going for a walk at 10pm. Some still say he saw her watching TV at 10pm.
The parents said he told them she went for a walk and didn't come back. That doesn't say morning or night though.
Though At least that small point would have been straight by now
Agree. And first, the friend says "she told me things, I should have done more" but now it is like "he will get support, but will need to fill both roles of mother and father"?? This is getting more and more intriguing IMO!!
plentyofnous
05-12-2012, 11:10 PM
The media release information from ANY source, that is their business to create headlines which people will read and display their advertisements, they are not worried about what is technically correct. i am surprised that other family or friends havent come out swinging, look at Carolyn Byrnes father.
Neuromancer
05-12-2012, 11:13 PM
Unfortunately I agree that the headline of today's Sunday Mail is merely an attempt to rattle the cage of the culprit/s and keep the pressure on them. If they had enough evidence they would have arrested someone not just be talking about doing it. Fingers crossed they will be able to put all the pieces together soon and have an air tight case.
Personally I think Mr Baden-Clay Senior might be involved in this. A friend of mine used to work with him when he was in the insurance game and he can't understand why NGC and EBC would have been working in GBC's business at their age in life. My friend is the same age as them and he has been long retired and living the good life and he thought the Baden-Clays would have long been doing so too. Especially since NBC used to act as though he was somebody even way back then. My friend thinks that the only reason that they would have been working in the real estate business is because they had financially backed it so it was in their own best interests to be in there and working.
Yes.
Yes.
I thought that when reading the bio on the C21 site:
“Coming out of retirement to join Gerard in his enterprise has been a wonderful journey so far,” he says. “It’s a joy to apply the experience of relationship-building to the business of real estate.”
(http://web.archive.org/web/20080718224602/http://century21.com.au/westside/agenthome.htm)
The emphasis on "Coming out of retirement" was a bit 'protesteth too much' - justifying the move ("no, no, we don't need the money, just helping son...") +/- controlling Daddy wanting to oversee investment, if there was any.
I wonder though, because escaping Rhodies/S. Africans often took a huge loss on their cash/assets when coming over here, altho in (?1980) when they came over, it was nowhere near as bad as now.
HN man
05-12-2012, 11:16 PM
Bahahahahahha!
I love you guys!
I'm a big believer InDogWeTrust. .... Any doubt, lock both your wife and your dog in the boot of your car for an hour, and when you let them out, guess which one is happy to see you .. In-Dog-I-Trust.
No hard feelings
indogwetrust
05-12-2012, 11:25 PM
I'm a big believer InDogWeTrust. .... Any doubt, lock both your wife and your dog in the boot of your car for an hour, and when you let them out, guess which one is happy to see you .. In-Dog-I-Trust.
No hard feelings
Lol! Yes, no hard feelings HN man, it is good to 'lick' and make up!
We might never find out the facts. GBC does not have to speak. So accomplices may choose to remain silent too. The onus of proof on evidence gained is on the Police and the Prosecution at Court. Methinks The Law needs to be reviewed and changed.
Man!
I know everyone probably thinks I'm a Lawyer hater!!!
No - it's the Law that is really frustrating me- and yeah, I have a Science degree, not a Law degree - so I havn't got a bloody clue.
But it is wrong, wrong, wrong! I know it is innocent until proven guilty - but lets face it - someone isn't sitting in the dock because a woman was murdered in Brookfield the day they were sitting on a beach in the Bahama's!
In my field, current practice is guided by up to date scientific evidence - changes all the time.
I'm with you - think those Law textbooks need updating - cos there seems to be more protection for the guilty than the innocent!
CaseClosed
05-12-2012, 11:27 PM
Lol! Yes, no hard feelings HN man, it is good to 'lick' and make up!
:floorlaugh: :floorlaugh:
Random killer not prowling suburbs
Husband has yet to make statement to police
Police confident they'll make an arrest soon
Read more: http://www.news.com.au/national/killer-was-not-a-stranger-say-police/story-e6frfkvr-1226353911863#ixzz1uiUwcfOJ
Interesting collection of three sentences. The media is trying hard to say things they think they aren't allowed to say imo.
Moggill2
05-12-2012, 11:29 PM
... Gerard will have to step up now and play both roles in the future ???? ....
Does the family believe that he will be around for a long time ?????
This is what has bothered with the trust fund business. This man has a lot of financial problems, from what I read, he's been taking loans out, etc. No way will I contribute a cent that might be used to fix his financial problems.
I'm no expert on trust funds but I've been around too long to believe that he won't find a way to get his hands on this money and use it to bail himself out of his financial strife.
Attack my post all you like, but I abandoned my rose-colored glasses on human nature a long time ago.
BTW this has nothing to do with his guilt or innocence, but the character of the person himself. I know a self-centred egotistical spiv when i see one.
plentyofnous
05-12-2012, 11:31 PM
The law is there to protect the innocent as much as to convict the guilty. They would rather let 20 guilty people off than convict or take freedom from any innocent person. it also helps to keep an eye on abusive use of powers/policing, lets face it , Qld has not a great track record with this
Hope the money raised doesn't go to his legal defence Moggill2.
CaseClosed
05-12-2012, 11:35 PM
This is what has bothered with the trust fund business. This man has a lot of financial problems, from what I read, he's been taking loans out, etc. No way will I contribute a cent that might be used to fix his financial problems.
I'm no expert on trust funds but I've been around too long to believe that he won't find a way to get his hands on this money and use it to bail himself out of his financial strife.
Attack my post all you like, but I abandoned my rose-colored glasses on human nature a long time ago.
BTW this has nothing to do with his guilt or innocence, but the character of the person himself. I know a self-centred egotistical spiv when i see one.
For me, the Trust Fund was something set up by her parents to assist the children, in Allison's memory (which lead to believe that they thought he wasn't going to be around to look after the kids himself). However, certain things now reported by the media (yes, could all be made up) are concerning me, because it hints at the fact that maybe the father will be around for a long time to look after his daughters.
This is sounding more and more like the Madeleine McCann case: Lawyers on the scene pretty quickly, setting up of a Trust Fund, police unable to prove who did it although the police think it was "accidental plus cover-up", etc. etc.
I now think we will be waiting for a looooooong time for this to come to court, if indeed it does!!
indogwetrust
05-12-2012, 11:37 PM
Man!
I'm with you - think those Law textbooks need updating - cos there seems to be more protection for the guilty than the innocent!
The thing is, the onus of 'beyond reasonable doubt' which is applied to criminal cases which is much more stringent as opposed to civil ('on the balance of probabilities') works both ways.
If you were innocent - and there's been heaps of cases where innocent people have been convicted - you would want that level of onus. You would want the prosecution to have to jump through hoops to prove their case, because what is at stake is your liberty which is highly valued in our democratic, liberal society.
I feel ill when I think about people in the U.S who have been wrongly convicted, despite this onus of proof, and were executed, then found after the fact, to be innocent. I can't imagine the hell they would have gone through, knowing they were innocent.
So whilst it sucks in the cases where it looks really obvious that someone is guilty, it sucks less so if you are innocent.
Neuromancer
05-12-2012, 11:38 PM
GBC profiles not as the perpetrator but as someone who has secrets that he doesn't want made public.
Huh? :what:
Please explain?
plentyofnous
05-12-2012, 11:40 PM
Why would they be interested in an appeal anyway, GBC will ultimately determine where the children attend school anyway, unless he is in prison i guess, but I think there is plenty of unsaid animosity between the families and that one family thinks they are a little better than the other, your guess which way this is, but in the event of incarceration, the Family Court would more than likely place the children where they currently are , ie BC s , and not shift them IMO
Whatever the outcome, he and his family will move away, far away, as their existance here will be tainted forever
The gossip around legal circles is GBC did it accidentally and Bwana was called in to help clean up the mess but police have no evidence. Old man spotted sitting in bus shelter outside village at the roundabout late Thusday night or early FRiday morning. Female driver stopped to see if he was ok. Apparently he acted oddly and she thought he might have been crazy. Police are looking for anyone else who might have spotted him.
Make of it what you will.
Now we're cooking......
This is definitely more likely to be an 'out of place' thing at the roundabout! Not GBC riding down the road, on a little girls bike impersonating Mungo Jerry ( yeah - you will have to plough through Thread 6 if you want to know where that came from - speculation, haha!)
Thanks SKMA - I think we all have suspicions of who, why , mistresses involved - maybe/maybe not- but the
shannanagings at the roundabout - no idea!
Now IF this is anywhere near true... why on earth don't these people show some humanity, and fess up? They took those little girls mum away in the most horrific way - how could anyone live with that; if they had any shred of human decency in them, they would do the right thing.
I don't like the 'no evidence' bit...
Moggill2
05-12-2012, 11:53 PM
For me, the Trust Fund was something set up by her parents to assist the children, in Allison's memory (which lead to believe that they thought he wasn't going to be around to look after the kids himself). However, certain things now reported by the media (yes, could all be made up) are concerning me, because it hints at the fact that maybe the father will be around for a long time to look after his daughters.
This is sounding more and more like the Madeleine McCann case: Lawyers on the scene pretty quickly, setting up of a Trust Fund, police unable to prove who did it although the police think it was "accidental plus cover-up", etc. etc.
I now think we will be waiting for a looooooong time for this to come to court, if indeed it does!!
That's what really gets my goat sometimes. There are so many well-meaning people that do kind, thoughtful things and unfortunately there are just as many spivs out there ready to take advantage of this.
CoffeeDrinker
05-12-2012, 11:57 PM
Hopefully an arrest will be made some time this week, HOPE SO:jail::
http://brisbanetimes.com.au/queensland/badenclay-tests-may-lead-to-killers-arrest-20120513-1ykec.html
Midnight Louie
05-12-2012, 11:57 PM
Hi Everyone, I'm a first time poster and avid follower of these threads about ABC.
Just noticed an item on the Brissie Times website saying that:
Charges could be laid over the murder of Brookfield mum-of-three Allison Baden-Clay as early as this week with key test results due very soon.
Police said they were unlikely to make an arrest until they had the results of Mrs Baden-Clay’s autopsy and toxilogy tests.
The results are due some time this week with the usual turnaround for the tests two weeks.
Read more: http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/queensland/badenclay-tests-may-lead-to-killers-arrest-20120513-1ykec.html#ixzz1uibu7sd2
Gives us a time of a time frame as to when an arrest will be made....do I hear someone shizzing in their pants.....??
plentyofnous
05-12-2012, 11:57 PM
Why are they concerned about where they go to High School, that is years away, what about right now ? Where is the trauma counselling ? Why send them to school where no matter how good the intentions of everybody concerned are, they will be exposed to comments and sideways glances, Why arent they protecting those KIDS ? If they know something we don t , then scream, go to the media, DO SOMETHING
Makes me think ABC is not as innocent as we all think
plentyofnous
05-12-2012, 11:59 PM
Why are they concerned about where they go to High School, that is years away, what about right now ? Where is the trauma counselling ? Why send them to school where no matter how good the intentions of everybody concerned are, they will be exposed to comments and sideways glances, Why arent they protecting those KIDS ? If they know something we don t , then scream, go to the media, DO SOMETHING
Makes me think ABC is not as innocent as we all think
Why would they be interested in an appeal anyway, GBC will ultimately determine where the children attend school anyway, unless he is in prison i guess, but I think there is plenty of unsaid animosity between the families and that one family thinks they are a little better than the other, your guess which way this is, but in the event of incarceration, the Family Court would more than likely place the children where they currently are , ie BC s , and not shift them IMO
Whatever the outcome, he and his family will move away, far away, as their existance here will be tainted forever
So say daddy and grandpappy BC did do it - and went to prison, would the children be left with Grandma BC?
factfinda
05-13-2012, 12:03 AM
I find it hard to believe that the media are still reporting two different scenarios for the way Allison was last seen by GBC. Some still say he saw her going for a walk at 10pm. Some still say he saw her watching TV at 10pm.
The parents said he told them she went for a walk and didn't come back. That doesn't say morning or night though.
Though At least that small point would have been straight by now
It is important to understand that the media has printed information that reflects what has been said during the investigation. Instead of wondering why the media hasn't clarified his comments in relation to her last movements, you should instead wonder why there is a discrepancy in his version(s). At this point there is no official clarification from police regarding this piece of information, so therefore the media cannot do so either. You also have to remember that these pieces of information are not actually "facts" at this stage, but only what is reported to have been said - according to police. All of the versions of when she was last sighted may well prove to be incorrect down the track, and this is not the fault of the police or the media. Both groups can only report on what is "known" at one particular point in time. When, and if, this changes then that will also be reported.
CoffeeDrinker
05-13-2012, 12:04 AM
Why are they concerned about where they go to High School, that is years away, what about right now ? Where is the trauma counselling ? Why send them to school where no matter how good the intentions of everybody concerned are, they will be exposed to comments and sideways glances, Why arent they protecting those KIDS ? If they know something we don t , then scream, go to the media, DO SOMETHING
Makes me think ABC is not as innocent as we all think
:waitasec: Hi there, not sure what you mean: "Makes me think ABC is not as innocent as we all think" ?????
plentyofnous
05-13-2012, 12:07 AM
If she was a competent caregiver, the kids were happy there then probably, if it was contested by Dickies, then an argument of "the best interests of the children" would develop, it would be a question of capacity as well i spose, But remember, even convicted Fathers are Fathers and have some say in what happens to their children
plentyofnous
05-13-2012, 12:09 AM
:waitasec: Hi there, not sure what you mean: "Makes me think ABC is not as innocent as we all think" ?????
There has to be a reason the Dickies and ABC s friends are not condemning the BC s, there has to more to it if they know there was drama in their home, they have not said a damn word against them, WHY ?
you get a perfect view of that bus stop from the traffic camera so if Bwana was there, as suggested, the police would have that footage.
Moggill2
05-13-2012, 12:11 AM
Why would they be interested in an appeal anyway, GBC will ultimately determine where the children attend school anyway, unless he is in prison i guess, but I think there is plenty of unsaid animosity between the families and that one family thinks they are a little better than the other, your guess which way this is, but in the event of incarceration, the Family Court would more than likely place the children where they currently are , ie BC s , and not shift them IMO
Whatever the outcome, he and his family will move away, far away, as their existance here will be tainted forever
Very true. I was just thinking last night what a great job the media has done at steering our thoughts in particular directions without really making outright statements. Quotes given by the media from Allison's parents, best friend and other sources are very selective and because we don't know the whole of what was actually said by the person, these reported quotes can be taken completely out of context.
I've made a mental note to myself to be careful of being 'led' by the media.
I understand that the media may be trying to 'tell' the public things without actually telling them (if you know what i mean) but I get a bit wary when I read quotes from parents and best friend that seem to contradict the info the media have given us.
Neuromancer
05-13-2012, 12:12 AM
Random killer not prowling suburbs
Husband has yet to make statement to police
Police confident they'll make an arrest soon
Read more: http://www.news.com.au/national/killer-was-not-a-stranger-say-police/story-e6frfkvr-1226353911863#ixzz1uiUwcfOJ
Interesting collection of three sentences. The media is trying hard to say things they think they aren't allowed to say imo.
Yes - whoda thought the CM would become such subtle masters of juxtaposition.
Why are they concerned about where they go to High School, that is years away, what about right now ? Where is the trauma counselling ? Why send them to school where no matter how good the intentions of everybody concerned are, they will be exposed to comments and sideways glances, Why arent they protecting those KIDS ? If they know something we don t , then scream, go to the media, DO SOMETHING
Makes me think ABC is not as innocent as we all think
Yes - this is all about the kids... can you imagine the emotional scars these little ones will be left with; I know children can be resilient - but to have their mum taken away from them like this. I lost my dear dad to illness, and I was 50 - and I still feel traumatised. But I'm not sure about the ABC comment.
Allison was a victim - but so are those little ones. I am sure the little girls know more - children protect their parents, whatever! what a burden on them.
Are we allowed to talk about the children? even if we are just discussing the affect this has had on them? I'm not sure...
Midnight Louie
05-13-2012, 12:17 AM
What if ABC had a will. Do you think it might mention in there what would happen to the children if something happened to her and GBC?
plentyofnous
05-13-2012, 12:17 AM
Very true. I was just thinking last night what a great job the media has done at steering our thoughts in particular directions without really making outright statements. Quotes given by the media from Allison's parents, best friend and other sources are very selective and because we don't know the whole of what was actually said by the person, these reported quotes can be taken completely out of context.
I've made a mental note to myself to be careful of being 'led' by the media.
I understand that the media may be trying to 'tell' the public things without actually telling them (if you know what i mean) but I get a bit wary when I read quotes from parents and best friend that seem to contradict the info the media have given us.
IMO BC s have been tight lipped because of legal advice, Dickies showing great restraint or no ticker, if it was my daughter, I would like to see anyone stop me getting to the bottom of this, unless there was dirt on Allison which could fly back ? IMO only Thoughts ?
Neuromancer
05-13-2012, 12:18 AM
Now we're cooking......
This is definitely more likely to be an 'out of place' thing at the roundabout! Not GBC riding down the road, on a little girls bike impersonating Mungo Jerry
Damn you. I choked on my coffee. ;p
indogwetrust
05-13-2012, 12:18 AM
There has to be a reason the Dickies and ABC s friends are not condemning the BC s, there has to more to it if they know there was drama in their home, they have not said a damn word against them, WHY ?
This doesn't answer your question plentyofnous, which is a good one, but for me, what isn't being said, speaks just as loudly as what is being said.
Did you read Allison's funeral notice? This is just one example of the Dickies speaking loudly, but not directly.
itsthevibe
05-13-2012, 12:20 AM
The gossip around legal circles is GBC did it accidentally and Bwana was called in to help clean up the mess but police have no evidence. Old man spotted sitting in bus shelter outside village at the roundabout late Thusday night or early FRiday morning. Female driver stopped to see if he was ok. Apparently he acted oddly and she thought he might have been crazy. Police are looking for anyone else who might have spotted him.
Make of it what you will.
Edited to add: the legal eagles say it's wasn't strangulation but rather a "love tap gone wrong". I'm quoting here.
What on earth is a 'love tap'?
If the cause of death is strangulation I don't see it as accidental and I think we've established that due to the time it takes to strangle someone to death. Unless its the auto-erotic thing and i just don't accept that fits in this case - and the introduction of it into discussions was a bit of indulgent sensationalising (although i accept it happens occasionally).
factfinda
05-13-2012, 12:20 AM
Very true. I was just thinking last night what a great job the media has done at steering our thoughts in particular directions without really making outright statements. Quotes given by the media from Allison's parents, best friend and other sources are very selective and because we don't know the whole of what was actually said by the person, these reported quotes can be taken completely out of context.
I've made a mental note to myself to be careful of being 'led' by the media.
I understand that the media may be trying to 'tell' the public things without actually telling them (if you know what i mean) but I get a bit wary when I read quotes from parents and best friend that seem to contradict the info the media have given us.
Both families would have been advised not to publicly say anything about another party's guilt or innocence at this early stage in the investigations.
Caviar
05-13-2012, 12:23 AM
The gossip around legal circles is GBC did it accidentally and Bwana was called in to help clean up the mess but police have no evidence. Old man spotted sitting in bus shelter outside village at the roundabout late Thusday night or early FRiday morning. Female driver stopped to see if he was ok. Apparently he acted oddly and she thought he might have been crazy. Police are looking for anyone else who might have spotted him.
Make of it what you will.
Edited to add: the legal eagles say it's wasn't strangulation but rather a "love tap gone wrong". I'm quoting here.
Please excuse my ignorance, but what is a 'love tap'?
plentyofnous
05-13-2012, 12:25 AM
This doesn't answer your question plentyofnous, which is a good one, but for me, what isn't being said, speaks just as loudly as what is being said.
Did you read Allison's funeral notice? This is just one example of the Dickies speaking loudly, but not directly.
Still, why would a family sit quietly and make comments by ommision in funeral notices if their daughter was murdered and there 3 grandchildren sitting elswhere if there was trouble in the relationship
Does not make any sense
Why be a mouse ?
i believe a "love tap" is a horrible colloquialism for a punch or slap that one partner lands on the other during a domestic dispute.
I should also clarify that said eagles report the lack of evidence is in relation to Bwana not GBC.
There has to be a reason the Dickies and ABC s friends are not condemning the BC s, there has to more to it if they know there was drama in their home, they have not said a damn word against them, WHY ?
IMO the Dickies are decent people - waiting patiently for the police to finish their job, and arrest their daughters killer. Their behaviour has been exemplary. Now if it was hot head me - and I thought the BC's were involved - I'd be in there blasting the living daylights out of all of them, and be prepared to pay the price too!
Still, why would a family sit quietly and make comments by ommision in funeral notices if their daughter was murdered and there 3 grandchildren sitting elswhere if there was trouble in the relationship
Does not make any sense
Why be a mouse ?
Hopefully because the police have told them that there'll be an arrest very soon, so they are just biting their tongues and not jeopardising things.
plentyofnous
05-13-2012, 12:38 AM
Hopefully because the police have told them that there'll be an arrest very soon, so they are just biting their tongues and not jeopardising things.
The Police should only be reporting to GBC, he is next of kin, (regardless of any innuendo re his involvement) when she was married , all responsibility is GBC s not Dickies, She was 43 not 13, IMO there has to be a dark side to this investigation as I don t think anyone has acted as you would expect them to IMO
indogwetrust
05-13-2012, 12:40 AM
Still, why would a family sit quietly and make comments by ommision in funeral notices if their daughter was murdered and there 3 grandchildren sitting elswhere if there was trouble in the relationship
Does not make any sense
Why be a mouse ?
IMO, the Dickies are far from being mice, they are incredibly strong and courageous.
This case belongs to the police who have been extremely careful in everything they've said for a reason. Even when they were still calling Allison a missing person, to their own admission, on the day she was found, they said they had been treating it as a murder case for some time. So they were telling the media one thing, for a reason.
The Dickies are unable to make any accusations, even if they wanted to. But I do think that if you read between the lines, it is clear how they feel and they do it in a dignified way, which respects Allison and the children. Remember, he is the children's father. To call GBC vile names does them no service.
Also, I don't think the Dickies are haters, I'd imagine them to feel great pity and sadness toward the person capable of doing such a thing. I'm sure they must be so angry, but they wouldn't waste their time on someone who deserves pity rather than hate.
i believe a "love tap" is a horrible colloquialism for a punch or slap that one partner lands on the other during a domestic dispute.
I should also clarify that said eagles report the lack of evidence is in relation to Bwana not GBC.
Phew!!!!!! thanks, I was a bit worried about your evidence comment!
What's Bwana saying - he wanted to be first in line at Coles!
'Love slap' - it is truly horrible, isn't it. A slap that can leave someone dead!
Accident - OK. but he threw her in the river, for gods sake! If this is all true, there must be some evil male genes in that family...
This is just so awful.. I really hope it ends soon.
Strangeworld
05-13-2012, 12:49 AM
The gossip around legal circles is GBC did it accidentally and Bwana was called in to help clean up the mess but police have no evidence. Old man spotted sitting in bus shelter outside village at the roundabout late Thusday night or early FRiday morning. Female driver stopped to see if he was ok. Apparently he acted oddly and she thought he might have been crazy. Police are looking for anyone else who might have spotted him.
Make of it what you will.
Edited to add: the legal eagles say it's wasn't strangulation but rather a "love tap gone wrong". I'm quoting here.
Thanks for this insight SKMA. Just curious - do you think the gossip is based on substance i.e. some inside knowledge, or just legal minds with experience in these sorts of situations hypothesising. Would love to know!
My guess is GBC's done the deed at their place then called his father who'ds driven up to Kenmore, parked in the Village car park (directly behind the bus shelter) and has gone to wait at the bus stop so GBC can pull in and pick him up on his way through to Mt Crosby to dispose of the body.
GBC may have pulled into the village on the way back to get rid of evidence in industrial bins which are on the bus-stop side of the village (afaik). All this coming and going from the village would have been right in the sights of the traffic camera. This explains the industrial bin lead and how they knew to look there.
Thanks for this insight SKMA. Just curious - do you think the gossip is based on substance i.e. some inside knowledge, or just legal minds with experience in these sorts of situations hypothesising. Would love to know!
I think this gossip is top notch, knowing the sources, their sources (eg. the circles they move in) and their personal characters. I trust it 100%.
indogwetrust
05-13-2012, 12:56 AM
My guess is GBC's done the deed at their place then called his father who'ds driven up to Kenmore, parked in the Village car park (directly behind the bus shelter) and has gone to wait at the bus stop so GBC can pull in and pick him up on his way through to Mt Crosby to dispose of the body.
GBC may have pulled into the village on the way back to get rid of evidence in industrial bins which are on the bus-stop side of the village (afaik). All this coming and going from the village is right would have been right in the sights of the traffic camera. This explains the industrial bin lead and how they knew to look there.
SKMA, this is interesting, I posted earlier that the police had made inquiries with a shop owner at the village re: their CCTV, they were looking for Allison's car parked at the village.
DunnoZo
05-13-2012, 01:01 AM
Traffic camera site down again.... can anyone specify which bus stop exactly?
CoffeeDrinker
05-13-2012, 01:03 AM
:fight: IMO if someone gave me a "Love Tap" there would be hell to pay..... & I'd be out of there quick as lightening!!!
Couldbe
05-13-2012, 01:04 AM
My guess is GBC's done the deed at their place then called his father who'ds driven up to Kenmore, parked in the Village car park (directly behind the bus shelter) and has gone to wait at the bus stop so GBC can pull in and pick him up on his way through to Mt Crosby to dispose of the body.
GBC may have pulled into the village on the way back to get rid of evidence in industrial bins which are on the bus-stop side of the village (afaik). All this coming and going from the village would have been right in the sights of the traffic camera. This explains the industrial bin lead and how they knew to look there.
Terrible if true, but can understand this reasoning; and the 11.30pm to 4am could be the timeframe when the joint involvement occurred...including the returning home.
Kimster
05-13-2012, 01:05 AM
http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQNJF0wFfMUQCxQVSViS0QWL-0OAx3eTNKOgUPHEO1AGz4hMPBtZx2SBNtD
http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQNJF0wFfMUQCxQVSViS0QWL-0OAx3eTNKOgUPHEO1AGz4hMPBtZx2SBNtD
mumof2
05-13-2012, 01:05 AM
My guess is GBC's done the deed at their place then called his father who'ds driven up to Kenmore, parked in the Village car park (directly behind the bus shelter) and has gone to wait at the bus stop so GBC can pull in and pick him up on his way through to Mt Crosby to dispose of the body.
GBC may have pulled into the village on the way back to get rid of evidence in industrial bins which are on the bus-stop side of the village (afaik). All this coming and going from the village would have been right in the sights of the traffic camera. This explains the industrial bin lead and how they knew to look there.
i think you are probably pretty close here - only problem is i noticed yesterday that there are signs at the car park entrance saying that the car park is closed off every evening
i am also thinking that NBC is def involved though - the family dynamics make it pretty clear that he would be the go to man if things went pear shaped
IMO
i think you are probably pretty close here - only problem is i noticed yesterday that there are signs at the car park entrance saying that the car park is closed off every evening
there are three: one off Brookfield Rd, one off the roundabout (next to the bus stop practically) and one off Cederleigh Rd (although that one may have been closed since, I haven't been over there for awhile). Are they all closed off at night?
Traffic camera site down again.... can anyone specify which bus stop exactly?
It has to be the one by the monument.
indogwetrust
05-13-2012, 01:09 AM
i think you are probably pretty close here - only problem is i noticed yesterday that there are signs at the car park entrance saying that the car park is closed off every evening
Am not sure about it being closed off. I've got a private PO box around the back and I've always had access to it regardless what time of night/early morning.
minni
05-13-2012, 01:10 AM
you get a perfect view of that bus stop from the traffic camera so if Bwana was there, as suggested, the police would have that footage.
so maybe he parked his car in carpark, then waited at bus stop to be picked up? couldnt police identify him, and his car when it arrived, and GBC car as it picked him up etc etc....it seems like that would be a fair bit of evidence and they would have definately been bought in for questioning if they police had this type of footage? have the seniors been interviewed before? silly, but I have never really asked that question despite the raiding of their home..does anyone know?
Traffic camera site down again.... can anyone specify which bus stop exactly?
This link is working now:
http://www.tmr.qld.gov.au/Traffic-cameras-by-location/Traffic-cameras.aspx?name=Kenmore+-+Moggill+Road+-+Kenmore+Road+%28East%29
The bus stop is in the left-hand side of the picture - you can see the white shelter roof quite plainly; the roundabout is to the right and one of the entrances into the carpark is just below the bottom left hand corner of the picture just out of shot unless that was the one they closed off to traffic years ago because of all the roundabout accidents. Not sure if it's still there. But there are still at least two other entrances in to the carpark.
mumof2
05-13-2012, 01:14 AM
not sure about all of them - will look next time i go up there
there would be a way in but any car in there would be pretty obvious
the scenario still makes sense though
Champagne4lulu
05-13-2012, 01:16 AM
Everywhere you go peoole are talking about this case. I've heard a few very sad stories about it today. Just sends chills down your spine.
I think the dickies are not saying anything because they are desperate to get whoever did it charged and imprisoned. They don't want to jeopardize this so as much as I'm sure they are dying to scream, they have to stay silent for now.
I think the trust fund has been set up because they believe the kids will need it and GBC is prime suspect. If they didn't think that, why would they need the fund at all? He was the bread winner after all and ABC was a sahm wasn't she? So technically if they thought he was innocent it wouldn't be needed.
Just my opinion. What do you think?
Neuromancer
05-13-2012, 01:18 AM
Good post, that is possible but the thing is TM seems to have spoken with police at greater length than GBC and for most of it, without a lawyer.
I'm still out to lunch about identity of accomplice (just not enough evidence atm), but I've never been entirely convinced that the repeated interviews with "ex-colleague" and subsequent lawyer hiring are necessarily signs of complicity/involvement.
Just to play devil's advocate... willingness to participate in three long interviews without legal rep could point towards innocence and genuine "helping police with inquiries". Later engagement of lawyer could be to protect herself if she's going to be testifying for prosecution?
I'm still not convinced (as I've posted previously) that an innocent woman minding her own business at home on a Thursday night is going to willingly go and do very gross, unpleasant stuff to help someone who's just done something very stupid, horrible, frightening and the ultimate deal-breaker for a relationship (if they had one). Think of the choices (a) go to bed (b) drag body around muddy river banks in middle of the night, in the company of a highly agitated murderer, and become an accessory to murder. What would it take for you to choose (b)? What does she have to gain? What does she have to lose? For me, the losses here outweigh the gains dramatically.
If police thought she was involved in body disposal (sorry), why haven't they searched her place? There should be evidence like muddy shoes/clothes, mud in her car, maybe even DNA on her clothes. Why hasn't her computer been seized?
The places they have searched are Allison's house and BC senior's house.
Who has more to lose if person is arrested, enough to tip the scales to make such late-night shennanigans worth the effort? Someone with a financial stake in the business perhaps? And a highly valued social reputation to protect?
minni
05-13-2012, 01:18 AM
so maybe he parked his car in carpark, then waited at bus stop to be picked up? couldnt police identify him, and his car when it arrived, and GBC car as it picked him up etc etc....it seems like that would be a fair bit of evidence and they would have definately been bought in for questioning if they police had this type of footage? have the seniors been interviewed before? silly, but I have never really asked that question despite the raiding of their home..does anyone know?
well, Im sorry as usual I have posted before catching up!!!!! still would like to know if they seniors have been questioned yet? don't recall that they have, yet with this much possible roundabout activity you would think at least NBC had been?
Makara
05-13-2012, 01:18 AM
The gossip around legal circles is GBC did it accidentally and Bwana was called in to help clean up the mess but police have no evidence. Old man spotted sitting in bus shelter outside village at the roundabout late Thusday night or early FRiday morning. Female driver stopped to see if he was ok. Apparently he acted oddly and she thought he might have been crazy. Police are looking for anyone else who might have spotted him.
Make of it what you will.
Edited to add: the legal eagles say it's wasn't strangulation but rather a "love tap gone wrong". I'm quoting here.
Why sit in the bus shelter? Why not just sit in his car? :waitasec:
mumof2
05-13-2012, 01:21 AM
NBC has been posted as a likely accomplice since the beginning of the discussion at thread 1
Why sit in the bus shelter? Why not just sit in his car? :waitasec:
Because he was revved up by the phone call his son must have made to him, and the fact that his son was beside himself and just wanted to pick him up and get rid of the body asap? The words, "You be waiting!" spring to mind (no, I'm not being psychic, just guessing given the situation).
Neuromancer
05-13-2012, 01:25 AM
so maybe he parked his car in carpark
kinda random - but that's really funny to say out loud in a ex-Rhodesian accent ;)
plentyofnous
05-13-2012, 01:26 AM
NBC has been posted as a likely accomplice since the beginning of the discussion at thread 1
He hasn t even been questioned I thought ?
Makara
05-13-2012, 01:27 AM
Because he was revved up by the phone call his son must have made to him, and the fact that his son was beside himself and just wanted to pick him up and get rid of the body asap? The words, "You be waiting!" spring to mind (no, I'm not being psychic, just guessing given the situation).
Thanks, I get that. I was just thinking that an old bloke sitting in a bus shelter late at night would stand out like dog's balls.
My guess is GBC's done the deed at their place then called his father who'ds driven up to Kenmore, parked in the Village car park (directly behind the bus shelter) and has gone to wait at the bus stop so GBC can pull in and pick him up on his way through to Mt Crosby to dispose of the body.
GBC may have pulled into the village on the way back to get rid of evidence in industrial bins which are on the bus-stop side of the village (afaik). All this coming and going from the village would have been right in the sights of the traffic camera. This explains the industrial bin lead and how they knew to look there.
They would have to be a pair of ding dong heads to do this in view of the traffic camera! Why on earth wouldn't they have stayed off the main road? Thank god they were so stupid.
Just before you get to Kholo Creek Bridge there is a road sign - it has a camera on it - it's all to do with illegal rubbish dumping. I stupidly thought it was letting you know there was a speed camera on the camel humps!
It may be there just as a deterrent. Anyway - if there are camera's dotted around on the odd tree I'm sure any suspect footage would have resulted in a search up here earlier! at least it would show where they didn't go!
Big brother is watching you - careful what you get up to!
plentyofnous
05-13-2012, 01:28 AM
thanks, i get that. I was just thinking that an old bloke sitting in a bus shelter late at night would stand out like dog's balls.
on a cat
Makara
05-13-2012, 01:28 AM
kinda random - but that's really funny to say out loud in a ex-Rhodesian accent ;)
:floorlaugh: Get some on your fork. :floorlaugh:
Fuskier
05-13-2012, 01:29 AM
i believe a "love tap" is a horrible colloquialism for a punch or slap that one partner lands on the other during a domestic dispute.
I should also clarify that said eagles report the lack of evidence is in relation to Bwana not GBC.
Thanks for the interpretation of 'love tap'. Agreed, a horrible colloquialism. Is it actually a legal eagle colloquialism denoting domestic abuse/violence? Allison was brutally murdered and her body thrown into a creek like a piece of trash. This is not about love, it's about dark, hateful feelings, contempt, devaluation, objectification, revenge, power, and the ultimate control to end her life on this earth. Love tap is not a good term to be using as it obfuscates domestic violence.
Champagne4lulu
05-13-2012, 01:31 AM
Is it common knowledge there are cameras there and what they capture? Is it possible they didn't know it was there?
minni
05-13-2012, 01:32 AM
kinda random - but that's really funny to say out loud in a ex-Rhodesian accent ;)
are you sitting in front of your screen doing this?? haha
Thanks, I get that. I was just thinking that an old bloke sitting in a bus shelter late at night would stand out like dog's balls.
Yeah, but how straight are you thinking in that kind of a situation? Would being seen be top of your mind? And, yes, he would have been plainly visible to passing motorists, depending on which side of the shelter he was sitting (left or right - looking at Google maps, the sides of the shelter seem solid not transparent), from which direction the motorist was coming and how the shadow from the roundabout lights/other lights fell across the shelter itself.
Completelyconfused
05-13-2012, 01:34 AM
Why would they be interested in an appeal anyway, GBC will ultimately determine where the children attend school anyway, unless he is in prison i guess, but I think there is plenty of unsaid animosity between the families and that one family thinks they are a little better than the other, your guess which way this is, but in the event of incarceration, the Family Court would more than likely place the children where they currently are , ie BC s , and not shift them IMO
Whatever the outcome, he and his family will move away, far away, as their existance here will be tainted forever
I know this may not be palatable for some but even if GBC is in Gaol for the rest of his life it is unlikely his parental rights will be terminated. DOCS and family court won't need to be involved in this decision. He hasn't done anything to harm the children (at least physically) that we know of. He will still be responsible for deciding guardianship of his children etc.....and making any ultimate decisions regarding them even from gaol. My hunch is the Dickies and the best friend are pulling back from making outright accusations to try and protect their rights of access. He could refuse them all access and there isn't a whole lot they can do about it - except try and fight it in court and they still wouldn't get a whole lot. Sad as it is they need to maintain contact with the BC clan to ensure those girls know their mum and how much she loved them.
Why sit in the bus shelter? Why not just sit in his car? :waitasec:
Because they are dingdong heads! not yet perfected the art of murder.
Unbelievable, if true!
Neuromancer
05-13-2012, 01:35 AM
:floorlaugh: Get some on your fork. :floorlaugh:
:floorlaugh:
lol
Is it actually a legal eagle colloquialism denoting domestic abuse/violence?
The use of this term was a personal colloquialism.
Thanks, I get that. I was just thinking that an old bloke sitting in a bus shelter late at night would stand out like dog's balls.
Come on - he could say he had early onset dementia! I'm waiting for the next bus - valid excuse ( even if at 3 am!)
Neuromancer
05-13-2012, 01:38 AM
are you sitting in front of your screen doing this?? haha
maybe once or twice... ;p
Okera
05-13-2012, 01:38 AM
Usually only the middle carpark (next to the ANZ) is locked at night. The one you can see behind the bus shelter is unlocked, as is the larger one on the side of the shopping centre - no doubt to let the trucks through to unload as that is the only entrance to get to the Coles unloading bay.
They may have simply forgotten the cameras were there - I've been local for over 10 years now and totally forgot about the camera being there until this case.
Futureinsight
05-13-2012, 01:41 AM
What ever happens in this case it is going to be very interesting to be able to look back at the behaviours of all the people involved during this whole process after an arrest has been made....
plentyofnous
05-13-2012, 01:42 AM
I know this may not be palatable for some but even if GBC is in Gaol for the rest of his life it is unlikely his parental rights will be terminated. DOCS and family court won't need to be involved in this decision. He hasn't done anything to harm the children (at least physically) that we know of. He will still be responsible for deciding guardianship of his children etc.....and making any ultimate decisions regarding them even from gaol. My hunch is the Dickies and the best friend are pulling back from making outright accusations to try and protect their rights of access. He could refuse them all access and there isn't a whole lot they can do about it - except try and fight it in court and they still wouldn't get a whole lot. Sad as it is they need to maintain contact with the BC clan to ensure those girls know their mum and how much she loved them.
There are NO Parental rights in Australia, there are only children s rights, and if the above was the case, then the Parents or family could make application to Family Court "in the best interests of the children". Would have strong case if BC s involved. However in saying that, kids, even at that age, would be forming their own opinions, and feature very little in media releases regarding their mental state of mind, where is there help now, not in a few years at high school, sorry but that sounds so ridiculous.
Cccclllaareb
05-13-2012, 01:45 AM
Still, why would a family sit quietly and make comments by ommision in funeral notices if their daughter was murdered and there 3 grandchildren sitting elswhere if there was trouble in the relationship
Does not make any sense
Why be a mouse ?
Makes perfect sense to me, it's called having good grace. I'm sure the dickies have the sense to realise it won't do any good to jump up and down badmouthing others. To do so could be really damaging. I don't think there is anything mousy about them
minni
05-13-2012, 01:46 AM
Why sit in the bus shelter? Why not just sit in his car? :waitasec:
WHAT IS AT THE ROUNDABOUT THAT COULD MAKE NBC STAY THERE FOR A TIME ALONE WHILST GBC DEALT WITH OTHER THINGS???? I THINK ITS THE BINS
this takes me back to my earlier theory regarding the bins...is it possible NBC and GBC met in the carpark....GBC gave NBC 'evidence' (or worse) he then raced home to children or, god forbid NBC swapped kids for GBC's passenger, and GBC took them home whilst NBC dealt with whatever he was needed to...then he waited for GBC to return, pick him up, maybe head back to Brooky...sort out their sh%#, then back again etc etc etc..
WHAT IS AT THE ROUNDABOUT THAT COULD MAKE NBC STAY THERE FOR A TIME ALONE WHILST GBC DEALT WITH OTHER THINGS???? I THINK ITS THE BINS
this takes me back to my earlier theory regarding the bins...is it possible NBC and GBC met in the carpark....GBC gave NBC 'evidence' (or worse) he then raced home to children or, god forbid NBC swapped kids for GBC's passenger, and GBC took them home whilst NBC dealt with whatever he was needed to...then he waited for GBC to return, pick him up, maybe head back to Brooky...sort out their sh%#, then back again etc etc etc..
Do we know he was there for a long time? I thought he was just waiting to be picked up en route.
plentyofnous
05-13-2012, 01:50 AM
Makes perfect sense to me, it's called having good grace. I'm sure the dickies have the sense to realise it won't do any good to jump up and down badmouthing others. To do so could be really damaging. I don't think there is anything mousy about them
Sorry, if you thought i was being disrespectful to them, I wasn t, I am not really talking of bad mouthing , more about how quiet everything is, i don t see how it could be damaged more than it is for them, There daughter is murdered, their grandkids are with a family they don t seem to have much to do with, and they don t have any answers. I just would handle it completely differently, but thats not to say that they aren t full of grace, IMO they are a very very respectable family, with great kids, and are in shock and have my deepest sympathies. I just couldn t sit back
Champagne4lulu
05-13-2012, 01:51 AM
I'm guessing because GBC hasn't made a statement then he wouldn't have given a DNA sample either? Wouldn't they need that too? Or would they get a warrant for that when the forensic reports come back? To tie to crime scene/s or evidence I mean?
Do we know he was there for a long time? I thought he was just waiting to be picked up en route.
The pick-up-on-route idea, that was only my theory, nothing more. All I was told was that the father was seen sitting in the bus shelter at the roundabout that night.
minni
05-13-2012, 01:51 AM
Do we know he was there for a long time? I thought he was just waiting to be picked up en route.
I meant to suggest that maybe he was alone around CARPARK area for a while (busy taking care of something for GBC perhaps bin related?), then at bus stop just to be picked up
minni
05-13-2012, 01:56 AM
The pick-up-on-route idea, that was only my theory, nothing more. All I was told was that the father was seen sitting in the bus shelter at the roundabout that night.
the father? or an elderly man?
plentyofnous
05-13-2012, 01:57 AM
I don t really think BC s would dump a body on a main road under a bridge when there is many many secluded places not that far from the site, doesn t make sense and when it doesnt make sense usually isn t true
The pick-up-on-route idea, that was only my theory, nothing more. All I was told was that the father was seen sitting in the bus shelter at the roundabout that night.
Your theory sounds spot on - if he was sitting there for any length of time feeling remorse (what have we done?) we all probably wouldn't be here discussing this now; he may have confessed , and it would have all been done and dusted.
Futureinsight
05-13-2012, 01:58 AM
If any other search warrants were carried out in relation to this case eg Other womens house or any other person would it be known and reported by the media.... Is it at all possible that any other searches warrants have been executed that we are unaware of...
Also would the police bother to interview NBC knowing that he will only stay silent like his son until they had enough on him.
IMO The Dickie family are not doing or saying anything as that would jeopardise any access to the 3 girls. They can't change what has happened they know they have to be strong now for them girls. Also would you go saying anything to the media pointing or accusing GBC of something when he has a Lawyer and a Barrister waiting in the wings.... What will be achieved except more pain to them....
Ixnaye
05-13-2012, 02:01 AM
I'm still out to lunch about identity of accomplice (just not enough evidence atm), but I've never been entirely convinced that the repeated interviews with "ex-colleague" and subsequent lawyer hiring are necessarily signs of complicity/involvement.
Just to play devil's advocate... willingness to participate in three long interviews without legal rep could point towards innocence and genuine "helping police with inquiries". Later engagement of lawyer could be to protect herself if she's going to be testifying for prosecution?
I'm still not convinced (as I've posted previously) that an innocent woman minding her own business at home on a Thursday night is going to willingly go and do very gross, unpleasant stuff to help someone who's just done something very stupid, horrible, frightening and the ultimate deal-breaker for a relationship (if they had one). Think of the choices (a) go to bed (b) drag body around muddy river banks in middle of the night, in the company of a highly agitated murderer, and become an accessory to murder. What would it take for you to choose (b)? What does she have to gain? What does she have to lose? For me, the losses here outweigh the gains dramatically.
If police thought she was involved in body disposal (sorry), why haven't they searched her place? There should be evidence like muddy shoes/clothes, mud in her car, maybe even DNA on her clothes. Why hasn't her computer been seized?
The places they have searched are Allison's house and BC senior's house.
Who has more to lose if person is arrested, enough to tip the scales to make such late-night shennanigans worth the effort? Someone with a financial stake in the business perhaps? And a highly valued social reputation to protect?
I'm with you, I don't think TM had anything to do with the murder or disposing of the body. I think the police interviewed her to get knowledge of the family dynamics, what was happening in the business and of course what was happening in GBC's personal life etc etc. As part of establishing a motive.
I think she has lawyered up because she is scared of these people, I know I would be if I was her. Let's just say for arguments sake that GBC did it and his parents helped him to try and cover it up. I'm only a few years younger than her and I'm single, if my lover had just murdered his wife, the mother of his children, I know I would be terrified of him and his family and what they are capable of, I know I wouldn't be helping him dispose of her body.
Maybe TM has been threatened or intimated in some way and told to keep her mouth shut and stop assisting the police! Maybe she is just simply scared stiff and doesn't want to end up like Allison so that is why she has lawyered up so she doesn't have to assist the police any further.
Moggill2
05-13-2012, 02:03 AM
IMO, the Dickies are far from being mice, they are incredibly strong and courageous.
This case belongs to the police who have been extremely careful in everything they've said for a reason. Even when they were still calling Allison a missing person, to their own admission, on the day she was found, they said they had been treating it as a murder case for some time. So they were telling the media one thing, for a reason.
The Dickies are unable to make any accusations, even if they wanted to. But I do think that if you read between the lines, it is clear how they feel and they do it in a dignified way, which respects Allison and the children. Remember, he is the children's father. To call GBC vile names does them no service.
Also, I don't think the Dickies are haters, I'd imagine them to feel great pity and sadness toward the person capable of doing such a thing. I'm sure they must be so angry, but they wouldn't waste their time on someone who deserves pity rather than hate.
This was also my opinion up until after the funeral and what I mean about not wanting to be 'led' by the media.
I don't know any of the people personally so my opinion has then been based on what the media has been feeding me.
I don't know what kind of people the Dickies' are and regardless of this, my heart truly goes out to them for the loss of their child. What has happened to them is my own worst nightmare come true.
But I don't know that I personally would say it's dignified or respectful to Allison or her daughters to issue a funeral notice like that or say some of the things the media have reported they supposedly said. I think it would be more dignified to not say anything at all and wait for truth and justice to prevail (hopefully).
I understand that as grandparents they may not want to risk being cut off from their grand-daughters....and I understand they would have been instructed not to say anything ....so again, wouldn't it be better then not to say anything at all (directly or indirectly)?
Of late I find my thoughts switching daily from "they are taking advantage of the press to swing public opinion and sympathy their way" to "they are trying very hard to tell us something indirectly".
the father? or an elderly man?
an 'elderly man' was the report from the witness. The legal types said the police knew the father was involved in part because of this report. I am assuming there is other circumstantial evidence against the father also.
I think this gossip is top notch, knowing the sources, their sources (eg. the circles they move in) and their personal characters. I trust it 100%.
As we all know it's all gossip even from the most trusted of sources until the facts are made public, as I've heard from badges not directly involved in the case that the evidence for premeditation is on his computer that is still being held in custody, which point to financial motives and googling(researching) items such as your "right to remain silent"...... prior to the disappearance.
minni
05-13-2012, 02:04 AM
I don t really think BC s would dump a body on a main road under a bridge when there is many many secluded places not that far from the site, doesn t make sense and when it doesnt make sense usually isn t true
some one did..wasnt she found under a bridge.. not following
I don t really think BC s would dump a body on a main road under a bridge when there is many many secluded places not that far from the site, doesn t make sense and when it doesnt make sense usually isn t true
Bunya St is pretty quiet. A lot of activity up near Tyamolum - further upstream. Allison may have been left up there and carried downstream. I used to back on to a dry creek bed over in Karana Downs - when you had a downpour, it was a raging torrent - up to 20m across at times! We had lots of rain the weekend before she was found.
minni
05-13-2012, 02:06 AM
WHAT IS AT THE ROUNDABOUT THAT COULD MAKE NBC STAY THERE FOR A TIME ALONE WHILST GBC DEALT WITH OTHER THINGS???? I THINK ITS THE BINS
in previous post, I stated "a time alone'....not a long time....I think people may have misread this bit, sorry
you get a perfect view of that bus stop from the traffic camera so if Bwana was there, as suggested, the police would have that footage.
I reckon the old bastard was in on it from the start...
mountainhigh
05-13-2012, 02:08 AM
Yes you really have to wonder why he hasn't done so, if he is innocent and has nothing to hide then why avoid giving a statement to police.
He hasn't made an official statement because he hasn't been asked to yet. QPS will have their reasons for this obviously
Cccclllaareb
05-13-2012, 02:09 AM
Sorry, if you thought i was being disrespectful to them, I wasn t, I am not really talking of bad mouthing , more about how quiet everything is, i don t see how it could be damaged more than it is for them, There daughter is murdered, their grandkids are with a family they don t seem to have much to do with, and they don t have any answers. I just would handle it completely differently, but thats not to say that they aren t full of grace, IMO they are a very very respectable family, with great kids, and are in shock and have my deepest sympathies. I just couldn t sit back
I know what you're saying, but can you see how being quiet can actually help get justice for Allison? I think their approach is very wise under the circumstances.
It could certainly get worse for them! I'm sure they wouldn't want to say anything that could jeopardise the trial, assuming there will be one. The biggest favour they can do themselves and Allison is remain composed. They would know more about the family dynamics than us and maybe it's ok that the children get along really well with the other grandparents. It seems to be what they're used to so why upset that applecart?
I know of another case- Rhys Austin and Bianca girven, is anyone else following that? Well this young lady bianca was murdered and her poor family made quite a song and dance along with some colourful comments about the accused. They posted their opinions online. Of course they were well meaning, trying to give a voice to bianca but it was damaging to the case and they were instructed to take it down and shhhh. Sometimes being quiet is more helpful.
plentyofnous
05-13-2012, 02:11 AM
some one did..wasnt she found under a bridge.. not following
Someone else i think, this bridge is on a main roadway with a reasonable amount of traffic, they seemed to have a fair bit of time to dispose, so i think if it was BC s , they would have hidden much much better. Posters are making calls of BC s being strange, but they are not dumb, where ABC was found is too stupid a place to dispose of ABC when there are many many more alternatives where she would never been found.
Agent_99
05-13-2012, 02:13 AM
I'm guessing because GBC hasn't made a statement then he wouldn't have given a DNA sample either? Wouldn't they need that too? Or would they get a warrant for that when the forensic reports come back? To tie to crime scene/s or evidence I mean?
Hi, long time 'reader' - first time 'poster'.
IMO they would already have his DNA profile from a toothbrush or hairbrush of G B-C's they collected during the search of the two homes.
As we all know it's all gossip even from the most trusted of sources until the facts are made public, as I've heard from badges not directly involved in the case that the evidence for premeditation is on his computer that is still being held in custody, which point to financial motives and googling(researching) items such as your "right to remain silent"...... prior to the disappearance.
That is damning. I'm sure the IT people will have no trouble digging that out of his hard drive. I wonder what his reasons for that will be.
I trust my sources implicitly but it may be baseless and they're passing it on as gospel simply because they trust their sources implicitly.
At the end of the day, to those guys, it's just another topic of conversation fitted in between "how did your son's footy game go?" and the new house renovations. Very off-hand. "I heard from Pete Smith QC that the father was involved. Interesting, eh?" "Really? Yeah, interesting. John Blogs (LLB, Hons), said the same thing. ****, McArthur Coal's down again. That bloody financial planner should be sued for giving shithouse advice." etc. etc.
I believe the Dickies have been advised that being quiet and showing respect to everyone is the best course of action, for themselves, Allison and the girls.
As we all know it's all gossip even from the most trusted of sources until the facts are made public, as I've heard from badges not directly involved in the case that the evidence for premeditation is on his computer that is still being held in custody, which point to financial motives and googling(researching) items such as your "right to remain silent"...... prior to the disappearance.
Well, if this is right, if he didn't 'accidentally' strangle her, it was one hell of an 'accidental' love slap!
That is damning. I'm sure the IT people will have no trouble digging that out of his hard drive. I wonder what his reasons for that will be.
I trust my sources implicitly but it may be baseless and they're passing it on as gospel simply because they trust their sources implicitly.
At the end of the day, to those guys, it's just another topic of conversation fitted in between "how did your son's footy game go?" and the new house renovations. Very off-hand. "I heard from Pete Smith QC that the father was involved. Interesting, eh?" "Really? Yeah, interesting. John Blogs (LLB, Hons), said the same thing. ****, McArthur Coal's down again. That bloody financial planner should be sued for giving shithouse advice." etc. etc.
I agree though I personally think that evidence against the old ******* is what they are holding out for.....just my opinion though, nothing factual
plentyofnous
05-13-2012, 02:15 AM
I know what you're saying, but can you see how being quiet can actually help get justice for Allison? I think their approach is very wise under the circumstances.
It could certainly get worse for them! I'm sure they wouldn't want to say anything that could jeopardise the trial, assuming there will be one. The biggest favour they can do themselves and Allison is remain composed. They would know more about the family dynamics than us and maybe it's ok that the children get along really well with the other grandparents. It seems to be what they're used to so why upset that applecart?
I know of another case- Rhys Austin and Bianca girven, is anyone else following that? Well this young lady bianca was murdered and her poor family made quite a song and dance along with some colourful comments about the accused. They posted their opinions online. Of course they were well meaning, trying to give a voice to bianca but it was damaging to the case and they were instructed to take it down and shhhh. Sometimes being quiet is more helpful.
Who could instruct them to take it down, how can it damage a case, don t understand
Ippygal
05-13-2012, 02:17 AM
"whoever did it" would have more likely "dumped" upstream and the poor lady has ended up under the bridge with all the rain we had yeah?? Someone at work mentioned (rumour of course) something about body put in a hole near scout camp and it washed out with rain? Just another rumour I heard day after they found her.
Keyboredom
05-13-2012, 02:22 AM
This is great news. Tallies with the suggestion police seemed to think there were only 2 suspects and they had a lot of evidence against one of them, right back when they were searching and interviewing in the scout grounds area. Also supports the local gossip suggesting who helped the killer. And might explain why the police are just gathering as much as possible and not in a hurry for arrest, will be a better situation to nail both people at once with heaps of evidence against both.
Someone else i think, this bridge is on a main roadway with a reasonable amount of traffic, they seemed to have a fair bit of time to dispose, so i think if it was BC s , they would have hidden much much better. Posters are making calls of BC s being strange, but they are not dumb, where ABC was found is too stupid a place to dispose of ABC when there are many many more alternatives where she would never been found.
They were dumb enough to meet in front of a traffic camera. She could have been left anywhere up that creek area - I don't think they expected her to be found; and it would have been the amount of water that run into Kholo from Flaggy and Cameron's Creek. Enough to carry her downstream. They may not have expected that. They didn't have much time - probably didn't think of scout camp - lets face it - they didn't think of 'smile, you're on candid camera' Only our Super Sleuth Keyboredom made scout connection : )
Yes. ABC was found under a bridge but the 'thinking' IMO to date is that she was put somewhere up-stream (where she may never have been found, apparently, because there's so much 'obstruction' trapped up there due to last January's flood - trees, debris, junk etc) and because of heaving rains after she went 'missing' April 19 - the body came 'unstuck' and floated down the river. (Sorry, this sounds ghastly I know.)
SKMA your 'theory'/'advice' from lawyer-land makes 100% sense to me. An 'old man' waiting at a bus-stop in the dark...be a miracle if anyone could actually identify him there..ie 'isn't that Gerard's old man sitting there?!'....Brisbane's a small town, but not that small I think! (I worry about this 'lack of evidence' to convict the Elder BC too.)
Top-notch SKMA and is a great 'reason' for the police's concentration on this bloody round-about! Which has been so frustrating for many of us - some 'outlandish'/out there theories have been tabled - which is all good/interesting - but this sounds very, very plausible to me.
This 'love tap' - an argument gone-wrong, horror of horrors his plea of 'self-defence'...I worry that GBC sentence will be so light as to not to be worth anything...considering what he has taken from his family - the girls, the Dickies. Makes me SICK. I hate to think what the defence attorneys are 'cooking up' in respect to this. How CAN they live with themselves?!
The father being an accomplice - I think, YES. The TM? No. She would have to be a complete idiot to have been an accomplice in this - an 'old' affair - manslaughter/ murder? There is love/lust - but killing another human being? The wife? The mother of three children? (And I think she would have lawyered up much sooner if she was directly involved. I think the police are just 'scaring' her for details - hence all those interviews. Getting the 'dirt', for want of a better word and the 'details' on the marriage and on GBC.)
Only some awful father-son dynamic could get together and be complicit in this. Since Thread 1 there have been many, many comments on the 'distasteful' way GBC and elder BC's have acquitted themselves throughout this awful time. (Also that GBC had a BIG temper.) So I don't bat one eyelid that that Father is involved. Covering up for his son. The son - a big, bloody narcissist who is really a big coward asking for his Daddy's help when he's done something not just wrong...but.... Ugh...Just doesn't bear thinking about...Horrible, Horrible. IMO. If it is true.
plentyofnous
05-13-2012, 02:26 AM
This is great news. Tallies with the suggestion police seemed to think there were only 2 suspects and they had a lot of evidence against one of them, right back when they were searching and interviewing in the scout grounds area. Also supports the local gossip suggesting who helped the killer. And might explain why the police are just gathering as much as possible and not in a hurry for arrest, will be a better situation to nail both people at once with heaps of evidence against both.
If the Police had enough evidence to charge someone they would, they would not wait to be able to arrest 2 at once, its not the mentalist, Patrick Jane is not calling the shots. Don t think they would let a murderer with 3 kids alone for anything, funeral, gathering evidence anything.
possumheart
05-13-2012, 02:27 AM
There has to be a reason the Dickies and ABC s friends are not condemning the BC s, there has to more to it if they know there was drama in their home, they have not said a damn word against them, WHY ?
Because he is lawyered up and he would have them for slander. Not nice for the kids
plentyofnous
05-13-2012, 02:29 AM
Because he is lawyered up and he would have them for slander. Not nice for the kids
You can t slander/defame anybody with the truth
Keyboredom
05-13-2012, 02:30 AM
Is it common knowledge there are cameras there and what they capture? Is it possible they didn't know it was there?
It's possible they didn't know... I've been here 20 years and had no idea. Never really thought about cameras unless they were obvious :)
Strangeworld
05-13-2012, 02:32 AM
If this second-hand info about NBC is correct, I guess the real push for witnesses at the roundabout that night would be for identification of the person sitting at the bus stop. This could not be captured on CCTV, and could only come from a person who eye-balled his face on the night.
Neuromancer
05-13-2012, 02:35 AM
You can t slander/defame anybody with the truth
yeah imo the reason for any caution is to prevent a later argument that an accused can't get impartial jury/fair trial.
also someone who thinks they got away with it can get cocky/sloppy after a while
Ixnaye
05-13-2012, 02:36 AM
I reckon the old bastard was in on it from the start...
I agree Greg and I think EBC is fully aware of everything that happened that night too. I think that is what was behind that bizarre kissing scene. That was her way of saying that she was standing by her man so to speak.
Did you see the pictures of the Senior Baden-Clays at the funeral. Just looks of contempt on their faces.
Yes. ABC was found under a bridge but the 'thinking' IMO to date is that she was put somewhere up-stream (where she may never have been found, apparently, because there's so much 'obstruction' trapped up there due to last January's flood - trees, debris, junk etc) and because of heaving rains after she went 'missing' April 19 - the body came 'unstuck' and floated down the river. (Sorry, this sounds ghastly I know.)
SKMA your 'theory'/'advice' from lawyer-land makes 100% sense to me. An 'old man' waiting at a bus-stop in the dark...be a miracle if anyone could actually identify him there..ie 'isn't that Gerard's old man sitting there?!'....Brisbane's a small town, but not that small I think! (I worry about this 'lack of evidence' to convict the Elder BC too.)
Top-notch SKMA and is a great 'reason' for the police's concentration on this bloody round-about! Which has been so frustrating for many of us - some 'outlandish'/out there theories have been tabled - which is all good/interesting - but this sounds very, very plausible to me.
This 'love tap' - an argument gone-wrong, horror of horrors his plea of 'self-defence'...I worry that GBC sentence will be so light as to not to be worth anything...considering what he has taken from his family - the girls, the Dickies. Makes me SICK. I hate to think what the defence attorneys are 'cooking up' in respect to this. How CAN they live with themselves?!
The father being an accomplice - I think, YES. The TM? No. She would have to be a complete idiot to have been an accomplice in this - an 'old' affair - manslaughter/ murder? There is love/lust - but killing another human being? The wife? The mother of three children? (And I think she would have lawyered up much sooner if she was directly involved. I think the police are just 'scaring' her for details - hence all those interviews. Getting the 'dirt', for want of a better word and the 'details' on the marriage and on GBC.)
Only some awful father-son dynamic could get together and be complicit in this. Since Thread 1 there have been many, many comments on the 'distasteful' way GBC and elder BC's have acquitted themselves throughout this awful time. (Also that GBC had a BIG temper.) So I don't bat one eyelid that that Father is involved. Covering up for his son. The son - a big, bloody narcissist who is really a big coward asking for his Daddy's help when he's done something not just wrong...but.... Ugh...Just doesn't bear thinking about...Horrible, Horrible. IMO. If it is true.
:goodpost:
And don't get me started on the defence lawyers again... thought I got that out of my system earlier today ....
How can they sleep at night? counting the dollar signs...what is a death and a few ruined lives along the way..
Makara
05-13-2012, 02:37 AM
Wonder if the Big B lawyered up immediately? Bet he did.
This was also my opinion up until after the funeral and what I mean about not wanting to be 'led' by the media.
I don't know any of the people personally so my opinion has then been based on what the media has been feeding me.
I don't know what kind of people the Dickies' are and regardless of this, my heart truly goes out to them for the loss of their child. What has happened to them is my own worst nightmare come true.
But I don't know that I personally would say it's dignified or respectful to Allison or her daughters to issue a funeral notice like that or say some of the things the media have reported they supposedly said. I think it would be more dignified to not say anything at all and wait for truth and justice to prevail (hopefully).
I understand that as grandparents they may not want to risk being cut off from their grand-daughters....and I understand they would have been instructed not to say anything ....so again, wouldn't it be better then not to say anything at all (directly or indirectly)?
Of late I find my thoughts switching daily from "they are taking advantage of the press to swing public opinion and sympathy their way" to "they are trying very hard to tell us something indirectly".
I personally don't think they've "said" anything against GBC.
Berry
05-13-2012, 02:38 AM
So say daddy and grandpappy BC did do it - and went to prison, would the children be left with Grandma BC?
mmmm helps explain why we saw the granny pash.....getting lots a loving in before he "goes to the big house?" :panic:
Keyboredom
05-13-2012, 02:39 AM
If the Police had enough evidence to charge someone they would, they would not wait to be able to arrest 2 at once, its not the mentalist, Patrick Jane is not calling the shots. Don t think they would let a murderer with 3 kids alone for anything, funeral, gathering evidence anything.
I don't watch that sheet, but am assured by someone vaguely connected there is a LOT of evidence against one person. Guess we'll see. Police have let known murderers run around for some time as far as I know ... Keisha etc. .. Admittedly different situation...
DunnoZo
05-13-2012, 02:40 AM
I was able to have a quick glimpse on the website, then it went down again.... ahhh QLD Transport!
It looked as though if someone stopped in front of the bus stop they'd have to continue inbound on moggill rd towards Indooroopilly, and couldn't continue on the roundabout.. maybe picked someone up & reversed slightly ( this would be strange) to continue through towards Kholo? sorry if this has been mentioned.. jumped ahead
Moggill2
05-13-2012, 02:42 AM
I agree Greg and I think EBC is fully aware of everything that happened too. I think that is what was behind that bizarre kissing scene. That was her way of saying that she was standing by her man so to speak.
Did you see the pictures of the Senior Baden-Clays at the funeral. Just looks of contempt on their faces.
That's exactly what I thought! I don't know if EBC usually looks like that but saw that photo and thought of someone else's post earlier say that she is "evil" or maybe the word was "vile" - can't remember.
She's looking at her grieving grand-daughters for goodness sake!
mountainhigh
05-13-2012, 02:44 AM
[QUOTE=Inanna;7910921]Thank God for Hawkins!
I think also that GBC was living with his parents - and thus he has an alibi. However, I am sure he knows the killer. GBC's skeletons will all be clanging in a closet about to open - thus he is bunkered down.
Not so sure on the living with parents bit and has an alibi - I think its fair to say we all know that his story has been about going to bed at 10pm on the Thur and last seeing ABC watching the footy show.
They will def make an arrest soon, but in a situation like this where there are no witnesses to the actual murder and no murder weapon and possibly still a few remaining pieces of the puzzle not yet solved, then they simply have to wait on forensic test results incl COD.
plentyofnous
05-13-2012, 02:44 AM
I don't watch that sheet, but am assured by someone vaguely connected there is a LOT of evidence against one person. Guess we'll see. Police have let known murderers run around for some time as far as I know ... Keisha etc. .. Admittedly different situation...
I wasn t being disrespectful, just stating the obvious, I really think that if they had evidence, they would arrest perp, I don t know of any murderer with enough evidence to charge them running around anywhere. I have enjoyed your posts though and your views, just think there is a lot of skeletons in the closet to come out yet as a lot does nt make any sense to me.
Thinking
05-13-2012, 02:44 AM
My guess is GBC's done the deed at their place then called his father who'ds driven up to Kenmore, parked in the Village car park (directly behind the bus shelter) and has gone to wait at the bus stop so GBC can pull in and pick him up on his way through to Mt Crosby to dispose of the body.
GBC may have pulled into the village on the way back to get rid of evidence in industrial bins which are on the bus-stop side of the village (afaik). All this coming and going from the village would have been right in the sights of the traffic camera. This explains the industrial bin lead and how they knew to look there.
I totally get that noone would have been thinking clearly at the time if this is true - but I can't understand why on earth Bwana would wait in that bus shelter in the most public place in Kenmore? They live in Durness St, which is kind of on the way to the roundabout from the BC residence - why on earth wouldn't GBC have just dropped in there and collected him? Why sit at the bus shelter for all to see? Not sure if I'm flying with this one.
Couldbe
05-13-2012, 02:45 AM
They were dumb enough to meet in front of a traffic camera. She could have been left anywhere up that creek area - I don't think they expected her to be found; and it would have been the amount of water that run into Kholo from Flaggy and Cameron's Creek. Enough to carry her downstream. They may not have expected that. They didn't have much time - probably didn't think of scout camp - lets face it - they didn't think of 'smile, you're on candid camera' Only our Super Sleuth Keyboredom made scout connection : )
As well as Keyboredom;
Another poster named Rexo posted at 2.17pm on 28 Apr that he had sent an email to Searchers as follows:
Old 04-28-2012, 02:17 PM
Rexo
Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 11
If he was "frantically" phoning and sms'ing friends and relatives, as one of the news articles suggests, that would narrow the timeframe down somewhat. Have just sent an email to crimestoppers suggesting they check the Scout Camp here at Karana Downs. It is isolated from houses, only takes 10-15 minutes to drive from Brookfield, he would in all liklihood have been there at some time in his life due to his Scouts connection, and one would have to drive through the hot zone to get to it from his home, where mobile could have been thrown into the little creek at the centre of hot zone. His mobile phone info for that day would be interesting - especially the pings Ms G Norris referrred to.
Thanks
Makara
05-13-2012, 02:47 AM
This is starting to make a lot more sense now.
Three car loads of detectives arriving at the BC's home in the first week to confiscate evidence. I thought that was odd from the start considering Allison supposedly went missing from her own home at Brookfield. Some have mentioned that GBC was living at his parent's place but IMO it was still overkill on the part of the detectives unless they knew that there was someone else involved.
Keyboredom
05-13-2012, 02:47 AM
Only our Super Sleuth Keyboredom made scout connection : )
to be fair, I had a bit of a shotgun guess including gap creek along with the scout camp... Although I'd love to claim I was clever ;). Alicat named the actual spot Allison was found, that was impressive :rocker:
Liadan
05-13-2012, 02:48 AM
Wonder if GBC learned his techniques from the marriage enhancement facilitator? I am having a hard time getting over that statement. If NBC is involved it brings a new meaning to 'enhancing' a marriage. JMHO
Thinking
05-13-2012, 02:50 AM
I'm still out to lunch about identity of accomplice (just not enough evidence atm), but I've never been entirely convinced that the repeated interviews with "ex-colleague" and subsequent lawyer hiring are necessarily signs of complicity/involvement.
Just to play devil's advocate... willingness to participate in three long interviews without legal rep could point towards innocence and genuine "helping police with inquiries". Later engagement of lawyer could be to protect herself if she's going to be testifying for prosecution?
I'm still not convinced (as I've posted previously) that an innocent woman minding her own business at home on a Thursday night is going to willingly go and do very gross, unpleasant stuff to help someone who's just done something very stupid, horrible, frightening and the ultimate deal-breaker for a relationship (if they had one). Think of the choices (a) go to bed (b) drag body around muddy river banks in middle of the night, in the company of a highly agitated murderer, and become an accessory to murder. What would it take for you to choose (b)? What does she have to gain? What does she have to lose? For me, the losses here outweigh the gains dramatically.
If police thought she was involved in body disposal (sorry), why haven't they searched her place? There should be evidence like muddy shoes/clothes, mud in her car, maybe even DNA on her clothes. Why hasn't her computer been seized?
The places they have searched are Allison's house and BC senior's house.
Who has more to lose if person is arrested, enough to tip the scales to make such late-night shennanigans worth the effort? Someone with a financial stake in the business perhaps? And a highly valued social reputation to protect?
Yes. Perhaps GBC did text or ring her though - and she just didn't go? That would be enough for them to be very interested in her, even if she didn't actually do anything after that point. She would still want to get a lawyer as she would be terrified GBC may actually implicate her in some way.
I totally get that noone would have been thinking clearly at the time if this is true - but I can't understand why on earth Bwana would wait in that bus shelter in the most public place in Kenmore? They live in Durness St, which is kind of on the way to the roundabout from the BC residence - why on earth wouldn't GBC have just dropped in there and collected him? Why sit at the bus shelter for all to see? Not sure if I'm flying with this one.
I was thinking about this, too. If GBC had gone out the back way, up Rafting Ground, right on to Moggill, he could have met Bwana there. Bwana would only have had to drive into Kilkivan Avenue and turned right on to Moggill Rd, go maybe 500 metres to meet him.
Was it before or after the body had been dumped?
Maybe it was for anonymity? The backroads would have been awfully silent and empty at that time of night.
Was it specifically to dispose of crap in the industrial bins there?
Ixnaye
05-13-2012, 02:54 AM
That's exactly what I thought! I don't know if EBC usually looks like that but saw that photo and thought of someone else's post earlier say that she is "evil" or maybe the word was "vile" - can't remember.
She's looking at her grieving grand-daughters for goodness sake!
You have your opinion and I have mine.
I personally think she is looking at Mrs Dickie with contempt, not at her grieving granddaughters as you say.
Cccclllaareb
05-13-2012, 02:55 AM
Who could instruct them to take it down, how can it damage a case, don t understand
I'm just going to use the Austin/girven case for a real world example. Bianca was murdered so her family made a sort of tribute website for her. They added a list of media links and that sort of thing. Eventually Rhys was arrested and Bianca's family and friends made some comments on the site about Rhys's past behaviour, it wasn't all fabricated either (court records etc). They also made a page on facebook where people commented willy nilly about rhys (so careless!!!!). then it came to light that the defence was concerned Rhys would not be able to get a fair trial.
As well meaning as they were, trying so hard to get justice for Bianca and have a loud voice and online presence for her.... They almost unintentionally jeopardized the whole process. I might add that still hasn't gone to trial- and it was 2+years ago now.
They very promptly removed that site and the Facebook page!!!
Neuromancer
05-13-2012, 02:55 AM
I totally get that noone would have been thinking clearly at the time if this is true - but I can't understand why on earth Bwana would wait in that bus shelter in the most public place in Kenmore? They live in Durness St, which is kind of on the way to the roundabout from the BC residence - why on earth wouldn't GBC have just dropped in there and collected him? Why sit at the bus shelter for all to see? Not sure if I'm flying with this one.
Right - any travel between ABC house, NBC house and Kholo could all be done without going anywhere near there. So what would be the reason for being there at all? Unless doing some drive to get something, or going the long way round to make up some story? /perplexed.
Moggill2
05-13-2012, 02:56 AM
I was thinking about this, too. If GBC had gone out the back way, up Rafting Ground, right on to Moggill, he could have met Bwana there. Bwana would only have had to drive into Kilkivan Avenue and turned right on to Moggill Rd, go maybe 500 metres to meet him.
Was it before or after the body had been dumped?
Maybe it was for anonymity? The backroads would have been awfully silent and empty at that time of night.
Was it specifically to dispose of crap in the industrial bins there?
I wonder if QPC questioned the neighbors at Durness street on any unusual comings and goings that night/early morning?
Sheriff Surreal
05-13-2012, 02:56 AM
This is my first post here, but I have been following for a week or so, reading a few pages in each of the threads (so I haven't read every page - far from it).
Through my real estate connections I know everyone involved in this case except for Allison (I met her once, as I recall). It does shock me that GBC (and others) could even be accused of such a crime, and I hope that he had nothing to do with it. I know him reasonably well at a professional level, and I know he has made some poor business decisions that hit other people hard financially, but murder is taking it to another level (if he is guilty ... and I emphasise IF).
I have recently spoken with one person who has previously been mentioned in this series of threads, and they have read through some of the comments here. This has caused them a great deal of stress (can you imagine what it would be like if you were in their shoes???), as they know Allison well and they definitely had nothing to do with her tragic death.
Please, take care how you speak of people in this case. Some one (or perhaps two) are guilty parties, but the rest are innocent, so please think about that before posting as some of you have caused enormous stress for some people.
We all want the guilty person to be charged, but we also want all innocent parties to be treated with respect and the assumption of innocence.
Thanks :)
to be fair, I had a bit of a shotgun guess including gap creek along with the scout camp... Although I'd love to claim I was clever ;). Alicat named the actual spot Allison was found, that was impressive :rocker:
It was never going to be Brookfield; I know there is that 'search protocol' etc.
Gap Creek - not really any side roads to turn off into - but plenty up at the Mt - and the river!
Yep - Alicat def has some psychic abilities - she nailed that bridge!
Moggill2
05-13-2012, 02:57 AM
You have your opinion and I have mine.
I personally think she is looking at Mrs Dickie with contempt, not at her grieving granddaughters as you say.
Good point!
You have your opinion and I have mine.
I personally think she is looking at Mrs Dickie with contempt, not at her grieving granddaughters as you say.
I think she regards the whole scenario with contempt....
possumheart
05-13-2012, 02:59 AM
Those taxidermed animals heads at the BWANA's home deeply disturb me. I keep telling myself it is not rational to be so repulsed, but I really think they send a horrible message. I have never seen anything like it, and I haven't led a sheltered life.
Keyboredom
05-13-2012, 02:59 AM
Right - any travel between ABC house, NBC house and Kholo could all be done without going anywhere near there. So what would be the reason for being there at all? Unless doing some drive to get something, or going the long way round to make up some story? /perplexed.
One possible explanation is the teenager party suggested between bc house and rafting ground exit to Moggill road.. Some parties here are notorious for drunk street-wandering teens ... And they'd probably be seen and heard from some distance away. Would increAse chance of standing out/being seen. Maybe.
You have your opinion and I have mine.
I personally think she is looking at Mrs Dickie with contempt, not at her grieving granddaughters as you say.
I think she is just trying to hold herself together. It would have been a hell of a trying day for everybody regardless.
DunnoZo
05-13-2012, 03:03 AM
mmmm helps explain why we saw the granny pash.....getting lots a loving in before he "goes to the big house?" :panic:
I can't believe this image is in my head again.:sick:
Berry
05-13-2012, 03:05 AM
:fight: IMO if someone gave me a "Love Tap" there would be hell to pay..... & I'd be out of there quick as lightening!!!
Well a woman getting a 'love tap' DID go OUT like lightening from SKMAs' explanation...........OUT meaning stone dead when she hit the floor.
Had to be a hit so hard, like a car hitting her to cause that to go wrong and kill her.
Internal brain contusions from being ripped inside by the contra coup action (back and forward so fast) would instant haemorraging too.
plentyofnous
05-13-2012, 03:05 AM
I'm just going to use the Austin/girven case for a real world example. Bianca was murdered so her family made a sort of tribute website for her. They added a list of media links and that sort of thing. Eventually Rhys was arrested and Bianca's family and friends made some comments on the site about Rhys's past behaviour, it wasn't all fabricated either (court records etc). They also made a page on facebook where people commented willy nilly about rhys (so careless!!!!). then it came to light that the defence was concerned Rhys would not be able to get a fair trial.
As well meaning as they were, trying so hard to get justice for Bianca and have a loud voice and online presence for her.... They almost unintentionally jeopardized the whole process. I might add that still hasn't gone to trial- and it was 2+years ago now.
They very promptly removed that site and the Facebook page!!!
Look at the Patel case, the Courier mail and media hype/allegations were flying everywhere couldn t have been more prejudial IMO, didn t stop anything there, it s just been innuendo and nearly totally quiet from all concerned in this case, IMO there is a lot we have nt heard yet. GBC with high profile lawyer makes hard going but if it were me, and it respectfully isn t, how long do you wait,
If the Police had enough evidence to charge someone they would, they would not wait to be able to arrest 2 at once, its not the mentalist, Patrick Jane is not calling the shots. Don t think they would let a murderer with 3 kids alone for anything, funeral, gathering evidence anything.
Now I am confused..
So if the police wouldn't leave a murderer with 3 kids, GBC is def not a suspect, and they have no evidence against him - because if they did they would have arrested him by now?? or they just do not have enough evidence..
Cccclllaareb
05-13-2012, 03:09 AM
Look at the Patel case, the Courier mail and media hype/allegations were flying everywhere couldn t have been more prejudial IMO, didn t stop anything there, it s just been innuendo and nearly totally quiet from all concerned in this case, IMO there is a lot we have nt heard yet. GBC with high profile lawyer makes hard going but if it were me, and it respectfully isn t, how long do you wait,
Sorry how long do you wait for what?
Makara
05-13-2012, 03:09 AM
I agree Greg and I think EBC is fully aware of everything that happened that night too. I think that is what was behind that bizarre kissing scene. That was her way of saying that she was standing by her man so to speak.
Did you see the pictures of the Senior Baden-Clays at the funeral. Just looks of contempt on their faces.
When I first saw that photo on Saturday I was instantly drawn to the expression on EBC's face. What really freaks me out is the old boy looks like he's hiding behind EBC. (No smutty stuff on what he might be doing - I don't want to go there. LOL). He looks like the boogy man.
plentyofnous
05-13-2012, 03:14 AM
Now I am confused..
So if the police wouldn't leave a murderer with 3 kids, GBC is def not a suspect, and they have no evidence against him - because if they did they would have arrested him by now?? or they just do not have enough evidence..
He may be a suspect, POI, but they haven t clarified that I think, I don t think they have enough or any evidence, if they charge him without enough evidence, then they would be required to deliver a brief of evidence, which his SC would pull to bits, allow him bail and time to fight what they have told him they know. At this point he would IMO not be aware what they know or didn t know, its a game of cat and mouse.
itsthevibe
05-13-2012, 03:16 AM
Sorry, if you thought i was being disrespectful to them, I wasn t, I am not really talking of bad mouthing , more about how quiet everything is, i don t see how it could be damaged more than it is for them, There daughter is murdered, their grandkids are with a family they don t seem to have much to do with, and they don t have any answers. I just would handle it completely differently, but thats not to say that they aren t full of grace, IMO they are a very very respectable family, with great kids, and are in shock and have my deepest sympathies. I just couldn t sit back
I believe they have held back so they won't prejudice the case. If they made a big deal about any alleged belief GBC is the perp it would be all over the media and start a potential situation where GBC could use 'trial by media' as a way of saying he can't get a fair trial. I think everyone is laying low for all the same reaaons, to allow nothing dramatic to take off about GBC being guilty, so the police can get everything they need and then nail him! Revenge is best served cold, as they say.
plentyofnous
05-13-2012, 03:16 AM
Sorry how long do you wait for what?
wait to be gracious, I m glad its not my daughter I know where I would get the answers
When I first saw that photo on Saturday I was instantly drawn to the expression on EBC's face. What really freaks me out is the old boy looks like he's hiding behind EBC. (No smutty stuff on what he might be doing - I don't want to go there. LOL). He looks like the boogy man.
Yeah he is the boogy man and he's whispering something into her ear..........
Southern Rain
05-13-2012, 03:17 AM
What color is the BWANA car? Is it white? Sedan?
mountainhigh
05-13-2012, 03:17 AM
This is what has bothered with the trust fund business. This man has a lot of financial problems, from what I read, he's been taking loans out, etc. No way will I contribute a cent that might be used to fix his financial problems.
I'm no expert on trust funds but I've been around too long to believe that he won't find a way to get his hands on this money and use it to bail himself out of his financial strife.
Attack my post all you like, but I abandoned my rose-colored glasses on human nature a long time ago.
BTW this has nothing to do with his guilt or innocence, but the character of the person himself. I know a self-centred egotistical spiv when i see one.
One doesn't need to view life thru rose coloured glasses to know that there are horses for courses and that there are someetimes 'special circumstances' and I think this may just be that time don't you think...
1. The likliehood is that financial problems are the least of his problems and perhaps 25 years in the bin may be more of a pressing issue at the mo.
2. The trust fund I am sure will be handled with all the dignity and responsibility that goes with it. I hardly think anyone from ABC's side willl be mishandling their beloved Allison's childrens future in any way shape or form and I think that anyone who thinks that is probably a little out of touch with reality.
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