PDA

View Full Version : 2012.05.17 Doc Dump Thread



Pages : [1] 2 3 4 5

TonyGatto
05-17-2012, 05:07 PM
Her is the doc dump w/witness statements...

http://www.scribd.com/doc/93951121/State-v-Zimmerman-Evidence-released-by-prosecutor

Dr.Fessel
05-17-2012, 05:12 PM
Here is some discovery.

http://www.scribd.com/doc/93951121/State-v-Zimmerman-Evidence-released-by-prosecutor

vlpate
05-17-2012, 05:18 PM
Drugs found in Trayvon's system, per autopsy.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/trayvon-martin-documents-released-shooting-george-zimmerman/story?id=16371852#.T7VlishvB8E

jaded cat
05-17-2012, 05:22 PM
Drugs found in Trayvon's system, per autopsy.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/trayvon-martin-documents-released-shooting-george-zimmerman/story?id=16371852#.T7VlishvB8E

Marijuana is one drug, not drugs. No other drugs were found in his system.

beach
05-17-2012, 05:33 PM
Discuss here. Then please generate new threads as needed.


Mods will open and link here so the discussion can break out into topics.



Link to Documents Released today. (http://www.scribd.com/doc/93951121/State-v-Zimmerman-Evidence-released-by-prosecutor)

suzihawk
05-17-2012, 05:51 PM
http://www.scribd.com/doc/93951121/State-v-Zimmerman-Evidence-released-by-prosecutor

vlpate
05-17-2012, 05:53 PM
Bucal swabs were done on GZ - drug testing can be done from those.

http://htmlimg3.scribdassets.com/8eb81fq8jk1lwcso/images/5-c0f46d56ec.jpg

BiancaS
05-17-2012, 05:53 PM
Bringing my comment over from another thread on that black & white picture of GZ with "smashed nose." How come it was no longer smashed when he got to the police station, it does not look like that in the video. And...if it did look like that at any point, it would not have healed without being reset, it would have remained smashed in. And...if the back of his head was injured, why would the police not have taken a picture of the back, especially if it really looked like the leaked photo. And...is it black and white because the jacket does not quite match??? We do now know that they kept his clothes that night. ALL MOO!!!

HiHater
05-17-2012, 05:54 PM
ALL of Zimmerman's calls to report suspicious persons were in regard to black males. (while he resided at Twin Lakes)

pg 8 of 13

Emma Peel
05-17-2012, 06:01 PM
Oh thank goodness. Constipation relieved!
This was one dump that needed to happen a long time ago.

:woohoo:

hey, where's my lil' emoticons? :(

gxm
05-17-2012, 06:02 PM
Bringing my comment over from another thread on that black & white picture of GZ with "smashed nose." How come it was no longer smashed when he got to the police station, it does not look like that in the video. And...if it did look like that at any point, it would not have healed without being reset, it would have remained smashed in. And...if the back of his head was injured, why would the police not have taken a picture of the back, especially if it really looked like the leaked photo. And...is it black and white because the jacket does not quite match??? We do now know that they kept his clothes that night. ALL MOO!!!

Bringing my reply over from the other thread:

The video was taken at a distance and it was not high definition. Even so, both I and another WSer pointed out that we saw the bumps on the side of his nose even with the long distance and poor quality. IMO, this photo proves that we were correct in what we saw.

JMO, OMO, and :moo:

Reader
05-17-2012, 06:03 PM
Page 28....incident was 'utimately avoidable' if GZ had remained in his vehicle and waited on police to arrive, or if he had initiated contact with TM as a concerned citizen and relieved both of their concerns. There is NO evidence TM was involved in any criminal activity at the time.

Emma Peel
05-17-2012, 06:04 PM
ALL of Zimmerman's calls to report suspicious persons were in regard to black males. (while he resided at Twin Lakes)

pg 8 of 13

surprise, surprise. :cow:

LynnM
05-17-2012, 06:06 PM
p.32. Evidence collected list item 5. Where did the First-Aid kit come from?

AJ Noiter
05-17-2012, 06:08 PM
p.32. Evidence collected list item 5. Where did the First-Aid kit come from?

They also list the yellow medical blanket and the gloves used by emergency personnel.

pcrum12
05-17-2012, 06:11 PM
Drugs found in Trayvon's system, per autopsy.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/trayvon-martin-documents-released-shooting-george-zimmerman/story?id=16371852#.T7VlishvB8E

Well did ABC finally decide to stop the charade? No more little Trayvon, Big Bad Wolf George? Are they (ABC) finally characterizing George as a multi- racial hispanic instead of white? Shame on ABC - too late to save face in my opinion.

Elley Mae
05-17-2012, 06:15 PM
Page 136/183 TM was found behind 2861 Retreat View Circle

LynnM
05-17-2012, 06:16 PM
Well did ABC finally decide to stop the charade? No more little Trayvon, Big Bad Wolf George? Are they (ABC) finally characterizing George as a multi- racial hispanic instead of white? Shame on ABC - too late to save face in my opinion.

All this because Trayvon has traces of THC? It's no surprise given why he was suspended. That makes him bad?

According to the ME report, Trayvon was 5'11" tall and 158 pounds. Two inches taller but 27 pounds lighter.

HiHater
05-17-2012, 06:17 PM
pg 139 (Checklist for autopsy)

Notes read "confronted then shot"...maybe that's why the PCA uses that word?

saguaro
05-17-2012, 06:17 PM
Well did ABC finally decide to stop the charade? No more little Trayvon, Big Bad Wolf George? Are they (ABC) finally characterizing George as a multi- racial hispanic instead of white? Shame on ABC - too late to save face in my opinion.

I was shocked to see how slim GZ was during the bond hearing.

I thought he might not fit through the door from many saying how "fat" he was.

jaded cat
05-17-2012, 06:20 PM
I was shocked to see how slim GZ was during the bond hearing.

I thought he might not fit through the door from many saying how "fat" he was.

Weight loss will do that. His family has repeatedly said he lost a lot of weight after the shooting because of stress.

mikeysmommom
05-17-2012, 06:20 PM
Seems that GZ was telling the truth IMO When all evidence is out that he will be covered under the SYG law.IMO The judge will dismiss all charges and GZ is the one who will have the gigantic lawsuit against the state of FL. I wonder if GZ will be able to sue Mr.Crump and others who clearly lied to the media in order to smear GZ as a killer instead of a person who mostly saved his own life that night.

cityslick
05-17-2012, 06:21 PM
Page 136/183 TM was found behind 2861 Retreat View Circle

Wow, 'John' was right. It's right by the cut through.

pcrum12
05-17-2012, 06:21 PM
Item 14 pg 7 headphone in TM pocket? I thought it had been widely speculated he was talking on phone with headphones or headset when altercation started. How did headphones get in his pocket during a fight?

AJ Noiter
05-17-2012, 06:21 PM
Hm, on page 20 the officer/detective states that there was a live round in the chamber. What to believe, what to believe.

raeann
05-17-2012, 06:22 PM
I was shocked to see how slim GZ was during the bond hearing.

I thought he might not fit through the door from many saying how "fat" he was.

Size 38 pants and an extra large jacket do not indicate a "small" person.....as of the night he killed Trayvon, he was a pretty darned BIG person to say the least!

jmo

Reader
05-17-2012, 06:24 PM
http://www.centurylink.net/news/read.php?rip_id=%3CD9UQN7380%40news.ap.org%3E&ps=1011

Just a short article with this quote:

Also in the package is a photo of suspect George Zimmerman with a bloody nose taken the night of the fight. A paramedic report says Zimmerman had a 1-inch laceration on his head and forehead abrasion.

"Bleeding tenderness to his nose, and a small laceration to the back of his head. All injuries have minor bleeding," paramedic Michael Brandy wrote about Zimmerman's injuries in the report.

mikeysmommom
05-17-2012, 06:25 PM
Item 14 pg 7 headphone in TM pocket? I thought it had been widely speculated he was talking on phone with headphones or headset when altercation started. How did headphones get in his pocket during a fight?

I wonder how Mr.Crump will explain that one.

AJ Noiter
05-17-2012, 06:26 PM
ALL of Zimmerman's calls to report suspicious persons were in regard to black males. (while he resided at Twin Lakes)

pg 8 of 13

"All" ? According to page 26 there was 4 calls regarding young black males. 4 out of 64.. I don't even think Meatloaf would agree to that ratio as being "bad."

Edit: Yes, I did insert a silly comment. It's not snarky, it's meant to be silly.

JeannaT
05-17-2012, 06:26 PM
Marijuana is one drug, not drugs. No other drugs were found in his system.

When someone takes drugs, it's called "drugs", not drug.

You don't ever hear someone say "he's on drug".

Drugs were found in his system is the grammatical way to say marijuana was found. You don't say drug was found.

cityslick
05-17-2012, 06:27 PM
I wonder how Mr.Crump will explain that one.

The only thing I can think of is bluetooth? Unless we are talking about ear pods, which it may have been too. Can't jump to conclusion on that yet.

raeann
05-17-2012, 06:29 PM
Item 14 pg 7 headphone in TM pocket? I thought it had been widely speculated he was talking on phone with headphones or headset when altercation started. How did headphones get in his pocket during a fight?

On page 17 of the police information....it CLEARLY states that the headphones were found ON THE GROUND NEAR THE VICTIM.

cityslick
05-17-2012, 06:29 PM
Page 86 - witness narrative

Heard a man yelling but couldn't make out what he was saying, the same man yelled help.

gator
05-17-2012, 06:30 PM
Looks like a charge of manslaughter was indeed recommended. How about that.

AJ Noiter
05-17-2012, 06:32 PM
Looks like a charge of manslaughter was indeed recommended. How about that.

This has been explained away many times. They put that information at the top (charge and statutes) regardless of whether they press charges or not. It -is- manslaughter, but it was deemed to be "justifiable manslaughter" by the detective who wrote the report.

mikeysmommom
05-17-2012, 06:32 PM
TM had a lighter but no cigarettes possibly was used to light a joint since MJ was found in his system.People I know who carry lighters are smokers,never knew a non smoker to carry lighter in a pants pocket or even a pocketbook.

cityslick
05-17-2012, 06:32 PM
OMG, I can't believe this, page 92:

An investigator by the name of 'Chris' told me 'if it makes you feel any better, the cries were not from the person that died'.

suzihawk
05-17-2012, 06:34 PM
Seems that GZ was telling the truth IMO When all evidence is out that he will be covered under the SYG law.IMO The judge will dismiss all charges and GZ is the one who will have the gigantic lawsuit against the state of FL. I wonder if GZ will be able to sue Mr.Crump and others who clearly lied to the media in order to smear GZ as a killer instead of a person who mostly saved his own life that night.

This may be jumping the gun just a little. It's not a done deal by any means. There's still a lot of information to come and a long way to go. JMO

Elley Mae
05-17-2012, 06:35 PM
OMG, I can't believe this, page 92:

An investigator by the name of 'Chris' told me 'if it makes you feel any better, the cries were not from the person that died'.

Chris Who?

BiancaS
05-17-2012, 06:36 PM
All this because Trayvon has traces of THC? It's no surprise given why he was suspended. That makes him bad?

According to the ME report, Trayvon was 5'11" tall and 158 pounds. Two inches taller but 27 pounds lighter.


Let all that would not have had similar results in their teens cast the first stone!!! MOO.

And, don't forget by the time we got GZ's weight it was over a month later and he had lost substantial weight by then!!!

suzihawk
05-17-2012, 06:36 PM
Dr. Drew on HLN says the amount of THC in Trayvon's system is so low that it means 'almost nothing'.

cityslick
05-17-2012, 06:37 PM
Chris Who?

Chris Serino?

vlpate
05-17-2012, 06:37 PM
Seems that GZ was telling the truth IMO When all evidence is out that he will be covered under the SYG law.IMO The judge will dismiss all charges and GZ is the one who will have the gigantic lawsuit against the state of FL. I wonder if GZ will be able to sue Mr.Crump and others who clearly lied to the media in order to smear GZ as a killer instead of a person who mostly saved his own life that night.

I agree, he should be granted immunity. There is nothing here to show he committed murder2. Lots of misinformation was released, amazing.

elementary
05-17-2012, 06:38 PM
All this because Trayvon has traces of THC? It's no surprise given why he was suspended. That makes him bad?

According to the ME report, Trayvon was 5'11" tall and 158 pounds. Two inches taller but 27 pounds lighter.

Dr Drew Pinsky on HLN said that the level of THC means almost nothing. He could have smoked a couple of hours before or a couple of days. It's not going to make you aggressive.

My reaction is, wow, imagine if you were stoned and GZ stalked you and then you have to defend yourself.

Also, in the first reports that I read, GZ is described at 200lbs, which would make him 40lbs heavier than Trayvon.

katydid23
05-17-2012, 06:39 PM
Dr. Drew on HLN says the amount of THC in Trayvon's system is so low that it means 'almost nothing'.

It means 'nothing'---other than the fact he was smoking pot.

cityslick
05-17-2012, 06:40 PM
Direction of the projectile was directly, front to back.

Page 125

vlpate
05-17-2012, 06:40 PM
Dr. Drew on HLN says the amount of THC in Trayvon's system is so low that it means 'almost nothing'.

Fortunately we no longer have to go by what the reality TV doctor has to say, we have the documents and plenty of information on what that level of THC means.

vlpate
05-17-2012, 06:41 PM
It means 'nothing'---other than the fact he was smoking pot.

"on drugs or something"

BiancaS
05-17-2012, 06:41 PM
It means 'nothing'---other than the fact he was smoking pot.

But it could have been from days before, so it really means nothing in relation to this situation. MOO.

katydid23
05-17-2012, 06:42 PM
Dr Drew Pinsky on HLN said that the level of THC means almost nothing. He could have smoked a couple of hours before or a couple of days. It's not going to make you aggressive.

My reaction is, wow, imagine if you were stoned and GZ stalked you and then you have to defend yourself.

Smoking pot helps people make poor choices. When you are high, you tend to do impulsive, irrational things. I grew up in the SF Bay Area in the 60's. I was a dead head for years and have seen and known a million pot smokers. And as an old hippie, smoked it for many many years myself.

If Trayvon was smoking a joint that night, it would explain a lot, imo.

saguaro
05-17-2012, 06:43 PM
Photo of GZ from night.

Per abc news: http://abclocal.go.com/ktrk/story?section=news/national_world&id=8666187

daisy7
05-17-2012, 06:44 PM
Crime scene photos:

http://www.wesh.com/r-slideshow/31079394/detail.html

katydid23
05-17-2012, 06:46 PM
But it could have been from days before, so it really means nothing in relation to this situation. MOO.

Maybe it was, and maybe it wasn't. It would answer a lot of questions, imo,if he was smoking a joint that night. It would explain why he might have looked suspicious, as he might have been lingering and wasting time in order to finish smoking before he went back home. And he might have been paranoid, making the whole thing a vicious circle.

gator
05-17-2012, 06:46 PM
This has been explained away many times. They put that information at the top (charge and statutes) regardless of whether they press charges or not. It -is- manslaughter, but it was deemed to be "justifiable manslaughter" by the detective who wrote the report.

"Based on the facts and circumstances outlined in this narrative, I believe there exists probable cause for issuance of a capias charging George Michael Zimmerman with manslaughter." -p. 28 of 183

http://www.scribd.com/doc/93951121/State-v-Zimmerman-Evidence-released-by-prosecutor

The entire point of SYG is that a law enforcement agency cannot arrest someone for using force in a self-defense situation unless it determines that there is probable cause that the force that was used was unlawful. But an arrest was recommended in this situation, per the above.

elementary
05-17-2012, 06:46 PM
Hm, on page 20 the officer/detective states that there was a live round in the chamber. What to believe, what to believe.

I have no idea what this means. What does this imply?

In addition, maybe it would help to start a thread about the gun evidence.

saguaro
05-17-2012, 06:46 PM
Dr Drew Pinsky on HLN said that the level of THC means almost nothing. He could have smoked a couple of hours before or a couple of days. It's not going to make you aggressive.



Perhaps TM was suffering from THC abstinence symptoms.

"Abstinence following daily marijuana use can produce a withdrawal syndrome characterized by negative mood (eg irritability, anxiety, misery), muscle pain, chills, and decreased food intake."

http://www.nature.com/npp/journal/v29/n1/full/1300310a.html

IMO

AJ Noiter
05-17-2012, 06:48 PM
I have no idea what this means. What does this imply?

In addition, maybe it would help to start a thread about the gun evidence.

There was a report that there was not a live round in the chamber, which had us speculating what would've caused that. I stated that I would look at Mr. Martin's hands to see if he had injury from the slide when the gun went off. Now that we know there's no injury on the hand it was puzzling to me. Now we know why there wasn't an injury - the report was wrong, there WAS a live round in the chamber.

elementary
05-17-2012, 06:48 PM
But it could have been from days before, so it really means nothing in relation to this situation. MOO.

Yeah. Pinsky said if he had immediately been smoking, the THC would be closer to 100 than 1.5 or 2 whatchyamacallits.

rossva
05-17-2012, 06:48 PM
One drug or not, it is ILLEGAL in Florida.




Marijuana is one drug, not drugs. No other drugs were found in his system.

AJ Noiter
05-17-2012, 06:49 PM
How about that page 40 where the investigators received a copy of Mr. Zimmerman's medical report (faxed by his doctor) on 3/9/12. Didn't Investigator Gilbreath say he didn't have the records? Hmm.

BiancaS
05-17-2012, 06:49 PM
On page 17 of the police information....it CLEARLY states that the headphones were found ON THE GROUND NEAR THE VICTIM.

They also say the photo button was in the pocket, but GZ even admits that he saw him wearing a button on the 911 call. How did it get in his pocket??

saguaro
05-17-2012, 06:50 PM
How about that page 40 where the investigators received a copy of Mr. Zimmerman's medical report (faxed by his doctor) on 3/9/12. Didn't Investigator Gilbreath say he didn't have the records? Hmm.

Oh dear.

elementary
05-17-2012, 06:51 PM
There was a report that there was not a live round in the chamber, which had us speculating what would've caused that. I stated that I would look at Mr. Martin's hands to see if he had injury from the slide when the gun went off. Now that we know there's no injury on the hand it was puzzling to me. Now we know why there wasn't an injury - the report was wrong, there WAS a live round in the chamber.

Oh okay. Thanks. What are the implications of a live round in the chamber as opposed to not? Did I miss the thread on this? (Frankly, I haven't been interested in the gun thing until the reports came out.)

beach
05-17-2012, 06:51 PM
Dr. Drew on HLN says the amount of THC in Trayvon's system is so low that it means 'almost nothing'.


Dr Drew Pinsky on HLN said that the level of THC means almost nothing. He could have smoked a couple of hours before or a couple of days. It's not going to make you aggressive.

My reaction is, wow, imagine if you were stoned and GZ stalked you and then you have to defend yourself.

Also, in the first reports that I read, GZ is described at 200lbs, which would make him 40lbs heavier than Trayvon.

Martin Savidge on the same show said they checked with a medical professional to get an idea of the amount and how it might impair him (given in nanograms...can't recall the exact amount but it is in the docs)

He said according to medical marijuana standards - it was 'right on the line' with what is the legal standard with being impaired to drive a vehicle.

Hey, I don't make too much of a 17 yr. old kid who has smoked a few joints...HOWEVER, what I want to know is how long ago this marijuana had been ingested. IOW, if the level was high enough to be 'right on the line' to be considered legally imparied to operate a vehicle, then I would think it had to be fairly recent. Not a week ago, kwim? I don't know... here to learn.

Please don't attack or misinterpret my reason for asking this. My MAIN reason is if it was very recent, that means he smoked since he had been visiting his dad. That leads me to wonder where the heck he got it considering his hometown and any connections were far away. Or maybe he brought it with him? I dunno.

Elley Mae
05-17-2012, 06:51 PM
Crime scene photos:

http://www.wesh.com/r-slideshow/31079394/detail.html

Thanks, page 54 of 67 iirc that would be "john's" window up though the branches of the tree. correct me if I am wrong.

BiancaS
05-17-2012, 06:51 PM
There was a report that there was not a live round in the chamber, which had us speculating what would've caused that. I stated that I would look at Mr. Martin's hands to see if he had injury from the slide when the gun went off. Now that we know there's no injury on the hand it was puzzling to me. Now we know why there wasn't an injury - the report was wrong, there WAS a live round in the chamber.

Sorry if I am misunderstanding, I know nothing about guns, but are you saying you think Trayvon shot HIMSELF??

cityslick
05-17-2012, 06:53 PM
Page 37

When he investigated, he witnessed a black male, wearing a dark colored hoodie, on top of a white or hispanic male throwing punches 'MMA' style.


I'm guessing this is 'John'.

I'm still getting over an investigator telling a witness to calm down because the screams they heard didn't come from the guy who died.

BiancaS
05-17-2012, 06:57 PM
Martin Savidge on the same show said they checked with a medical professional to get an idea of the amount and how it might impair him (given in nanograms...can't recall the exact amount but it is in the docs)

He said according to medical marijuana standards - it was 'right on the line' with what is the legal standard with being impaired to drive a vehicle.

Hey, I don't make too much of a 17 yr. old kid who has smoked a few joints...HOWEVER, what I want to know is how long ago this marijuana had been ingested. IOW, if the level was high enough to be 'right on the line' to be considered legally imparied to operate a vehicle, then I would think it had to be fairly recent. Not a week ago, kwim? I don't know... here to learn.

Please don't attack or misinterpret my reason for asking this. My MAIN reason is if it was very recent, that means he smoked since he had been visiting his dad. That leads me to wonder where the heck he got it considering his hometown and any connections were far away. Or maybe he brought it with him? I dunno.

Could possibly have brought it with him, they drove from Miami, did not fly. If it was recent, based on what Dr. Drew said that may not be the case and Dr. Drew knows drugs!! As they also said on Dr. Drew, and I am not even close to the exact words, better to be around someone that smoked pot rather than someone that had a few drinks (as in pot makes you mellow, not agitated). Kids smoke pot, even my perfect children do that!! Although at 21 and 28, they are no longer "children." They find no reason no hide that from me, although it is illegal, it is pretty much what kids do. As well as a whole lot of adults.

AJ Noiter
05-17-2012, 06:57 PM
Sorry if I am misunderstanding, I know nothing about guns, but are you saying you think Trayvon shot HIMSELF??

No. With semi-automatic (such as the one Mr. Zimmerman owned) and automatic weapons, you do not have to manually load the next round - the gun will do it automatically. The report stated that there was not a live round in the chamber, which had us asking "why not?" One reason would be that the slide was obstructed for some reason - which led myself and many others to believe that Mr. Martin's hand WOULD have some kind of injury from where he would have been grabbing the weapon. It turns out Mr. Martin didn't have a wound to his hand, which made me (and possibly others) rethink the scenario. Now that we know there WAS a new live round in the chamber there is no need to rethink the scenario. Everything happened as it should have, as far as the functioning of gun being fired is concerned.

Elley Mae
05-17-2012, 06:57 PM
I saw that a 7-11 red lighter was also on TM's in pocket

page 82/ 183

Reader
05-17-2012, 06:58 PM
This has been explained away many times. They put that information at the top (charge and statutes) regardless of whether they press charges or not. It -is- manslaughter, but it was deemed to be "justifiable manslaughter" by the detective who wrote the report.

Not so...Chris Serino on p.44 recommends a capias against GZ for manslaughter and forwarded this and evidence to the SA.

cityslick
05-17-2012, 07:01 PM
So, two different witnesses who actually saw the struggle before the shot happened pretty much describe GZ being on the bottom getting beat up.

BiancaS
05-17-2012, 07:01 PM
Perhaps TM was suffering from THC abstinence symptoms.

"Abstinence following daily marijuana use can produce a withdrawal syndrome characterized by negative mood (eg irritability, anxiety, misery), muscle pain, chills, and decreased food intake."

http://www.nature.com/npp/journal/v29/n1/full/1300310a.html

IMO

Where did we hear that Trayvon had any of these symptoms? I don't think he would have made the trek to 7-11 for snacks if he was not feeling well. And if he had it in his bloodstream, he was not abstaining, IMO.

rossva
05-17-2012, 07:01 PM
It's PROOF Martin was predisposed to break the law.




But it could have been from days before, so it really means nothing in relation to this situation. MOO.

IzzyBlanche
05-17-2012, 07:02 PM
Has anyone come across the part where the witness possibly "John" saw GZ standing over TM and talking to someone with a flashlight after the shot?

I just saw that on a news report, I haven't seen it in the doc dump myself.

elementary
05-17-2012, 07:02 PM
Martin Savidge on the same show said they checked with a medical professional to get an idea of the amount and how it might impair him (given in nanograms...can't recall the exact amount but it is in the docs)

He said according to medical marijuana standards - it was 'right on the line' with what is the legal standard with being impaired to drive a vehicle.

Hey, I don't make too much of a 17 yr. old kid who has smoked a few joints...HOWEVER, what I want to know is how long ago this marijuana had been ingested. IOW, if the level was high enough to be 'right on the line' to be considered legally imparied to operate a vehicle, then I would think it had to be fairly recent. Not a week ago, kwim? I don't know... here to learn.

Please don't attack or misinterpret my reason for asking this. My MAIN reason is if it was very recent, that means he smoked since he had been visiting his dad. That leads me to wonder where the heck he got it considering his hometown and any connections were far away. Or maybe he brought it with him? I dunno.

AS I mentioned upthread, Trayvon had only 1.5 to 2 nanograms in his blood. Pinsky said that if he had been smoking at the time, it would be 100. It's possible, he also said, that he smoked it 2 hours ago. But possibly days ago as well.

cityslick
05-17-2012, 07:04 PM
AS I mentioned upthread, Trayvon had only 1.5 to 2 nanograms in his blood. Pinsky said that if he had been smoking at the time, it would be 100. It's possible, he also said, that he smoked it 2 hours ago. But possibly days ago as well.

Can you still be 'barely on the legal line for driving' by smoking two days ago?

IzzyBlanche
05-17-2012, 07:04 PM
It's PROOF Martin was predisposed to break the law.

Well.

I wonder how many posters here have ever broken the speed limit.

It is, after all, the law.

So any posters who have done so must be predisposed to break the law, according to this logic.

JMO of course.

vlpate
05-17-2012, 07:04 PM
But it could have been from days before, so it really means nothing in relation to this situation. MOO.

If you will research the amounts found in his system, you will see that the levels were from that day.

BiancaS
05-17-2012, 07:05 PM
JVM just showed photos of the nose at the police station, looked NOTHING like the black and white one that we saw. And the head one did not look like the other leaked one. What's up with this and why does someone feel like they have to make things look worse if they are genuine injuries??? MOO.

justbeachy
05-17-2012, 07:05 PM
Has anyone come across the part where the witness possibly "John" saw GZ standing over TM and talking to someone with a flashlight after the shot?

I just saw that on a news report, I haven't seen it in the doc dump myself.

I believe it is on pg 37 or 38. I'll double check....

It's on pg 38.

HTH

elementary
05-17-2012, 07:06 PM
Has anyone come across the part where the witness possibly "John" saw GZ standing over TM and talking to someone with a flashlight after the shot?

I just saw that on a news report, I haven't seen it in the doc dump myself.

Yes, from what I've read, a witness mentioned that immediately after the shooting, a man came up to GZ and was talking with him. Next on the scene was a cop and GZ hands were up and he was cuffed. No identifying that first one so far in what I've read. I don't know if it was LE or non LE.

MaryAnn
05-17-2012, 07:06 PM
Drugs found in Trayvon's system, per autopsy.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/trayvon-martin-documents-released-shooting-george-zimmerman/story?id=16371852#.T7VlishvB8E

It doesn't say in this article that drugs were found in Trayvon's system. Do you have a link?

Littleone48
05-17-2012, 07:07 PM
Martin Savidge on the same show said they checked with a medical professional to get an idea of the amount and how it might impair him (given in nanograms...can't recall the exact amount but it is in the docs)

He said according to medical marijuana standards - it was 'right on the line' with what is the legal standard with being impaired to drive a vehicle.

Hey, I don't make too much of a 17 yr. old kid who has smoked a few joints...HOWEVER, what I want to know is how long ago this marijuana had been ingested. IOW, if the level was high enough to be 'right on the line' to be considered legally imparied to operate a vehicle, then I would think it had to be fairly recent. Not a week ago, kwim? I don't know... here to learn.

Please don't attack or misinterpret my reason for asking this. My MAIN reason is if it was very recent, that means he smoked since he had been visiting his dad. That leads me to wonder where the heck he got it considering his hometown and any connections were far away. Or maybe he brought it with him? I dunno.

Too much is being made about THC being in his system or smoking a joint IMO. For my entire life I have been against any types of drugs. That all changed when I got MS. I don't smoke it everynight and I don't smoke an entire joint but when I am in a flare I do partake in it.

Pot is illegal in NH but not in Maine. My Dr is in Maine so he could discuss it with me but not prescribe it. It takes away the pain and relaxes me. It does NOT make me agressive, dopey or whatever else people have said.

When I have a urine test for my pain pills I cannot smoke it for a week before because the of the level of THC that will show. It takes very little to be impaired to drive (I never drive after partaking). IMO it has helped me to not take as many pain pills as I did without it. IMO I think this is a very good thing.

IMO smoking Pot did not make TM more aggresive in fact is makes you more passive.

BiancaS
05-17-2012, 07:07 PM
Screen capture from JVM of nose picture.

Dr.Fessel
05-17-2012, 07:08 PM
Trayvon was 5' 11" 158lbs

MaryAnn
05-17-2012, 07:09 PM
It's PROOF Martin was predisposed to break the law.

Really? You know this because?????

cityslick
05-17-2012, 07:09 PM
Screen capture from JVM of nose picture.

Did they say when that was taken? It's not the same one as the black and white shot.

mikeysmommom
05-17-2012, 07:09 PM
I agree, he should be granted immunity. There is nothing here to show he committed murder2. Lots of misinformation was released, amazing.

As an American citizen it is very upsetting to see how a person can be railroaded by people like Mr.Crump who tells mistruths or IMO lies in the media.Anyone could end up in the same position as GZ and IMO that is scary as H3ll.Very possibly when all is said and done GZ is telling the truth but is still facing life in prison even though IMO he had every right under the law to save his own life.

BiancaS
05-17-2012, 07:10 PM
If you will research the amounts found in his system, you will see that the levels were from that day.

On JVM, they just said that levels of 300 or higher means last 2-3 days, it is stored in fat cells.

Elley Mae
05-17-2012, 07:12 PM
Well.

I wonder how many posters here have ever broken the speed limit.

It is, after all, the law.

So any posters who have done so must be predisposed to break the law, according to this logic.

JMO of course.

I'll pay the fine, but I won't do the time.

katydid23
05-17-2012, 07:12 PM
Really? You know this because?????

Because he had THC in his system.

BiancaS
05-17-2012, 07:12 PM
Did they say when that was taken? It's not the same one as the black and white shot.

They said it was taken at the police station that night. And it DEFINITELY does not look like the one that was supposedly from the scene. That black and white one has to be fake, a smashed nose does not repair itself. MOO.

elementary
05-17-2012, 07:12 PM
No. With semi-automatic (such as the one Mr. Zimmerman owned) and automatic weapons, you do not have to manually load the next round - the gun will do it automatically. The report stated that there was not a live round in the chamber, which had us asking "why not?" One reason would be that the slide was obstructed for some reason - which led myself and many others to believe that Mr. Martin's hand WOULD have some kind of injury from where he would have been grabbing the weapon. It turns out Mr. Martin didn't have a wound to his hand, which made me (and possibly others) rethink the scenario. Now that we know there WAS a new live round in the chamber there is no need to rethink the scenario. Everything happened as it should have, as far as the functioning of gun being fired is concerned.

So does this mean that possibly Trayvon did not grab the weapon, or just that the gun shows no conclusive evidence of being grabbed by Trayvon?

vlpate
05-17-2012, 07:13 PM
Martin Savidge on the same show said they checked with a medical professional to get an idea of the amount and how it might impair him (given in nanograms...can't recall the exact amount but it is in the docs)

He said according to medical marijuana standards - it was 'right on the line' with what is the legal standard with being impaired to drive a vehicle.

Hey, I don't make too much of a 17 yr. old kid who has smoked a few joints...HOWEVER, what I want to know is how long ago this marijuana had been ingested. IOW, if the level was high enough to be 'right on the line' to be considered legally imparied to operate a vehicle, then I would think it had to be fairly recent. Not a week ago, kwim? I don't know... here to learn.

Please don't attack or misinterpret my reason for asking this. My MAIN reason is if it was very recent, that means he smoked since he had been visiting his dad. That leads me to wonder where the heck he got it considering his hometown and any connections were far away. Or maybe he brought it with him? I dunno.

He bought a lighter at 7-11 and doesn't smoke cigarettes, so he either had some weed, or was about to score some. JMO

MaryAnn
05-17-2012, 07:13 PM
If you will research the amounts found in his system, you will see that the levels were from that day.

What difference does it make if he did smoke? I'm sure there are lots of people on this board that smoke and that doesn't give someone the right to shoot them dead! What about the Adderal and other drugs GZ had in his system? Those are far worse than a little weed even if they are prescription drugs!

jaded cat
05-17-2012, 07:14 PM
Smoking pot helps people make poor choices. When you are high, you tend to do impulsive, irrational things. I grew up in the SF Bay Area in the 60's. I was a dead head for years and have seen and known a million pot smokers. And as an old hippie, smoked it for many many years myself.

If Trayvon was smoking a joint that night, it would explain a lot, imo.

I'm a medical marijuana patient and I don't make poor choices, do impulsive or irrational things. I didn't when I was smoking illegally in 1971. It reacts differrently for everyone.

We have no evidence of TM doing any of these things, other than GZ's statement. I choose not to believe GZ's version of events.

elementary
05-17-2012, 07:14 PM
They said it was taken at the police station that night. And it DEFINITELY does not look like the one that was supposedly from the scene. That black and white one has to be fake, a smashed nose does not repair itself. MOO.

The difference between the B&W one and the coloured ones is remarkable. I agree. It doesn't look like the same nose at all. .

cityslick
05-17-2012, 07:14 PM
They said it was taken at the police station that night. And it DEFINITELY does not look like the one that was supposedly from the scene. That black and white one has to be fake, a smashed nose does not repair itself. MOO.

How in the world is it fake if it's coming from the doc dump, taken by LE?

AJ Noiter
05-17-2012, 07:16 PM
So does this mean that possibly Trayvon did not grab the weapon, or just that the gun shows no conclusive evidence of being grabbed by Trayvon?

I wouldn't say it's conclusive proof that Mr. Martin didn't go for or grab the weapon. It simply states that the INITITAL REPORT which stated "there wasn't a new live round in the gun" was WRONG. That's it.

MaryAnn
05-17-2012, 07:16 PM
Because he had THC in his system.

Are you saying everyone who smokes week is destined to crime? NOT!!!

elementary
05-17-2012, 07:17 PM
I'm a medical marijuana patient and I don't make poor choices, do impulsive or irrational things. I didn't when I was smoking illegally in 1971. It reacts differrently for everyone.

We have no evidence of TM doing any of these things, other than GZ's statement. I choose not to believe GZ's version of events.

Yeah, the only impulse I ever had was to sleep, or to eat everything in sight. I would want to see studies that MJ makes one impulsive and irrational, etc. Never saw it in the people around me either. Never heard reports of it. So, only studies would convince me and I'm not looking for them.

However, alcohol, as Dr Pinsky stated, is more likely to make you aggressive. It's a shame GZ wasn't tested that night. Hmmmm.

cityslick
05-17-2012, 07:18 PM
The stuff in his system doesn't matter IMO.

He wasn't a squeaky clean kid, newsflash there.

We should move on.

katydid23
05-17-2012, 07:20 PM
I'm a medical marijuana patient and I don't make poor choices, do impulsive or irrational things. I didn't when I was smoking illegally in 1971. It reacts differrently for everyone.

We have no evidence of TM doing any of these things, other than GZ's statement. I choose not to believe GZ's version of events.

But you are not 17 yrs old. It is the combination of being 17 and being high that makes someone impulsive and sometimes irrational. And TM's school records, showing three suspensions prove that, imo.

jaded cat
05-17-2012, 07:20 PM
Can you still be 'barely on the legal line for driving' by smoking two days ago?

No, you can't.

BiancaS
05-17-2012, 07:20 PM
In the case of smoked marijuana, THC peaks rapidly in the first few minutes after inhaling, often to levels above 100 ng/ml in blood plasma. It then declines quickly to single-digit levels within an hour. High THC levels are therefore a good indication that the subject has smoked marijuana recently. THC can remain at low but detectable levels of 1- 2 ng/ml for 8 hours or more without any measurable signs of impairment. Chronic users have been found to show residual blood THC levels of 1.5 (+/- 0.5) ng/ml for a full week after ceasing use [Karschner].

http://www.canorml.org/healthfacts/drugtestguide/drugtestdetection.html

IzzyBlanche
05-17-2012, 07:20 PM
The stuff in his system doesn't matter IMO.

He wasn't a squeaky clean kid, newsflash there.

We should move on.


I agree. However I don't think he was destined for a life of crime, either.

jaded cat
05-17-2012, 07:21 PM
But you are not 17 yrs old. It is the combination of being 17 and being high that makes someone impulsive and sometimes irrational. And TM's school records, showing three suspensions prove that, imo.

It didn't when I was 17, in 1971. That's what I said in my post.

katydid23
05-17-2012, 07:21 PM
Are you saying everyone who smokes week is destined to crime? NOT!!!

Well, smoking pot is a crime in Florida, so Yes, I suppose so.

mikeysmommom
05-17-2012, 07:21 PM
Too much is being made about THC being in his system or smoking a joint IMO. For my entire life I have been against any types of drugs. That all changed when I got MS. I don't smoke it everynight and I don't smoke an entire joint but when I am in a flare I do partake in it.

Pot is illegal in NH but not in Maine. My Dr is in Maine so he could discuss it with me but not prescribe it. It takes away the pain and relaxes me. It does NOT make me agressive, dopey or whatever else people have said.

When I have a urine test for my pain pills I cannot smoke it for a week before because the of the level of THC that will show. It takes very little to be impaired to drive (I never drive after partaking). IMO it has helped me to not take as many pain pills as I did without it. IMO I think this is a very good thing.

IMO smoking Pot did not make TM more aggresive in fact is makes you more passive.

I agree with everything you said , I also feel it is so much healthier and safer then taking pain meds which will cause aggression in some people.The point of TM possible smoking a joint that night IMO is very important because that might explain why TM might have attacked GZ because if TM was either looking for a private spot to smoke or was seen in a hidden spot to GZ it might have looked very suspicious.Also some people do get paranoid when they smoke,TM might have freaked thinking to stop GZ from calling 911 on him and getting police involved.IF GZ took out his phone to call police and said I am calling the cops TM might have punched him in the face to prevent that call not knowing they were called already.TM was on his 3rd suspension from school , most likely his parents probably told him to stay out of trouble Le would be the last people he would want called on him IMO. I wonder if the amount was small in his blood if he had been looking for a spot to smoke in when GZ first spotted him and maybe he ditched any pot he had then came back to confront GZ.

MaryAnn
05-17-2012, 07:22 PM
As an American citizen it is very upsetting to see how a person can be railroaded by people like Mr.Crump who tells mistruths or IMO lies in the media.Anyone could end up in the same position as GZ and IMO that is scary as H3ll.Very possibly when all is said and done GZ is telling the truth but is still facing life in prison even though IMO he had every right under the law to save his own life.

GZ made his bed and now he needs to lie in it. If he hadn't been carelessly patroling with a gun he wouldn't be facing life in prison. Maybe others will learn from GZ's huge mistake that took out the life of a young Man!!!

GZ deserves to spend the rest of his life in jail in the very least. Trayvon has no life!

katydid23
05-17-2012, 07:22 PM
It didn't when I was 17, in 1971. That's what I said in my post.

But like you said, everyone is different. TM just that day, was given a 10 day suspension. He made some very poor, irrational choices, that led to that third suspension. JMO

BiancaS
05-17-2012, 07:23 PM
What difference does it make if he did smoke? I'm sure there are lots of people on this board that smoke and that doesn't give someone the right to shoot them dead! What about the Adderal and other drugs GZ had in his system? Those are far worse than a little weed even if they are prescription drugs!


And, to me, someone VERY familiar with ADHD, the symptoms of ADHD concern me even more!!! Impulsiveness means you do things without considering the consequences first, act without thinking, get angry easily. That has much more to do with what happened that night than Trayvon blowing a little weed (which would only make him mellow)!!! MOO.

m00c0w
05-17-2012, 07:23 PM
Are you saying everyone who smokes week is destined to crime? NOT!!!
If they are using illegal substances, then by definition...

elementary
05-17-2012, 07:26 PM
I wouldn't say it's conclusive proof that Mr. Martin didn't go for or grab the weapon. It simply states that the INITITAL REPORT which stated "there wasn't a new live round in the gun" was WRONG. That's it.

Actually I asked if the live round in the chamber diminishes an earlier theory that it may be proof that Trayvon grabbed the gun. I didn't suggest that it's conclusive proof that Trayvon didn't.

So the initial 'leak' was misleading. Big surprise there. Thanks!

IzzyBlanche
05-17-2012, 07:26 PM
But like you said, everyone is different. TM just that day, was given a 10 day suspension. He made some very poor, irrational choices, that led to that third suspension. JMO

He was given a suspension on a Sunday?

katydid23
05-17-2012, 07:27 PM
I agree. However I don't think he was destined for a life of crime, either.

I do not believe he was destined for a life of crime. NOT AT ALL>

My only point was in response to someone else, and I replied that smoking pot is a crime in Florida.

katydid23
05-17-2012, 07:28 PM
He was given a suspension on a Sunday?

On Friday, sorry.

suzihawk
05-17-2012, 07:28 PM
He bought a lighter at 7-11 and doesn't smoke cigarettes, so he either had some weed, or was about to score some. JMO

I remember reading some time back about a receipt from the 7-11 that only included the Skittles and Arizona Iced Tea that included the time and date of purchase. Until I can find a link, I'll just say it's my opinion.

MaryAnn
05-17-2012, 07:29 PM
Well, smoking pot is a crime in Florida, so Yes, I suppose so.

That doesn't make him destined to a life of crime! that's absolutely ridiculous

GZ was on pills and was carrying a gun! GZ is up for 2nd degree murder so I guess his pill taking can also lead to a life of crime. The pills he was taking make you aggitated and angry, weed mellows you out.

IzzyBlanche
05-17-2012, 07:29 PM
If they are using illegal substances, then by definition...


I'll say this again: if one speeds on the freeway, then by definition as well according to this logic.

And I bet a huge majority of posters here have done that. I know I have. So I guess we're all headed for San Quentin.

Back on topic.

Since you know a lot about guns, how do you think it's possible that the bullet trajectory was straight from front to back, with no angle reported?

elementary
05-17-2012, 07:32 PM
But you are not 17 yrs old. It is the combination of being 17 and being high that makes someone impulsive and sometimes irrational. And TM's school records, showing three suspensions prove that, imo.

And you know this, how? I believe this is your opinion which does not make it fact. Here it is presumed that Trayvon was stoned which led to the suspensions. Cause and effect. There is no evidence of him being stoned then, and no evidence that that is what caused his behaviour to incur suspensions and certainly no evidence that MJ leads to irrational and impulsive behaviour unless you care to provide some.

katydid23
05-17-2012, 07:33 PM
That doesn't make him destined to a life of crime! that's absolutely ridiculous

GZ was on pills and was carrying a gun! GZ is up for 2nd degree murder so I guess his pill taking can also lead to a life of crime. The pills he was taking make you aggitated and angry, weed mellows you out.

I NEVER SAID HE WAS DESTINED FOR A LIFE OF CRIME. Please, do not put words in my mouth.

I said smoking pot IS A CRIME in Florida. Note the difference in those two statements.

m00c0w
05-17-2012, 07:33 PM
I'll say this again: if one speeds on the freeway, then by definition as well according to this logic.

And I bet a huge majority of posters here have done that. I know I have. So I guess we're all headed for San Quentin.

Back on topic.

Since you know a lot about guns, how do you think it's possible that the bullet trajectory was straight from front to back, with no angle reported?
Sure. If you speed, you're a criminal. Of a different nature than someone that traffics and consumes illicit substances, but a criminal nonetheless.

It just means the barrel of the gun was approximately perpendicular to Martin's chest. Given the extremely close proximity (within inches), I don't find this surprising at all.

mikeysmommom
05-17-2012, 07:34 PM
Yeah, the only impulse I ever had was to sleep, or to eat everything in sight. I would want to see studies that MJ makes one impulsive and irrational, etc. Never saw it in the people around me either. Never heard reports of it. So, only studies would convince me and I'm not looking for them.

However, alcohol, as Dr Pinsky stated, is more likely to make you aggressive. It's a shame GZ wasn't tested that night. Hmmmm.

When I was a teen my 24 yr old aunt called me she was crying and very paranoid.It took me 10 minutes to run to her house she was shaken ,paranoid. I got her in her house(she was outside in her yard crying and screaming)and I had to talk and reassure her the police were not coming to get her, I stayed with her till she came down from whatever the pot was laced with or for some reason it just really affected her badly if it wasn't laced.This was in the late 70's and she smoked it before.So anything can happen, If I was not there for her who knows what would have happened.

IzzyBlanche
05-17-2012, 07:34 PM
That doesn't make him destined to a life of crime! that's absolutely ridiculous
GZ was on pills and was carrying a gun! GZ is up for 2nd degree murder so I guess his pill taking can also lead to a life of crime. The pills he was taking make you aggitated and angry, weed mellows you out.

BBM. It certainly is. Good grief, most of my college buddies would be lifers by now if that were true.

I myself tried it a couple of times, didn't really like it, and guess what? I've never had so much as a parking ticket.

IzzyBlanche
05-17-2012, 07:35 PM
Sure. If you speed, you're a criminal. Of a different nature than someone that traffics and consumes illicit substances, but a criminal nonetheless.

It just means the barrel of the gun was approximately perpendicular to Martin's chest. Given the extremely close proximity (within inches), I don't find this surprising at all.

Well, I do. It seems to me that the proximity would make it much more difficult to fire a completely straight shot. Thanks for answering.

BiancaS
05-17-2012, 07:35 PM
I remember reading some time back about a receipt from the 7-11 that only included the Skittles and Arizona Iced Tea that included the time and date of purchase. Until I can find a link, I'll just say it's my opinion.

There is a video from the 7-11.

katydid23
05-17-2012, 07:37 PM
And you know this, how? I believe this is your opinion which does not make it fact. Here it is presumed that Trayvon was stoned which led to the suspensions. Cause and effect. There is no evidence of him being stoned then, and no evidence that that is what caused his behaviour to incur suspensions and certainly no evidence that MJ leads to irrational and impulsive behaviour unless you care to provide some.

Imo, taking a pot pipe to school in your back pack, in itself, is a poor decision. It is an impulsive action, and a bad decision, imo. And it was his third suspension, and the other two were also products of poor decision making skills and bad judgment, imo.

And YES, there is plenty of evidence that smoking strong weed, like the kind young people smoke today, leads to poor decision making and often bad choices.

BiancaS
05-17-2012, 07:38 PM
Why would they take a buccal swab from GZ, and MORE IMPORTANTLY, can't that now be used to drug test GZ??? Medical experts??

IzzyBlanche
05-17-2012, 07:38 PM
Sure. If you speed, you're a criminal. Of a different nature than someone that traffics and consumes illicit substances, but a criminal nonetheless.

It just means the barrel of the gun was approximately perpendicular to Martin's chest. Given the extremely close proximity (within inches), I don't find this surprising at all.

So are you saying that Trayvon was a drug trafficker?

Because I don't see drug trafficking and drug consuming in the same criminal ballpark at all.

elementary
05-17-2012, 07:39 PM
As an American citizen it is very upsetting to see how a person can be railroaded by people like Mr.Crump who tells mistruths or IMO lies in the media.Anyone could end up in the same position as GZ and IMO that is scary as H3ll.Very possibly when all is said and done GZ is telling the truth but is still facing life in prison even though IMO he had every right under the law to save his own life.

Well I hope he's a better truth teller than when he perjured himself on the stand about his financial status. "Railroaded"? Trayvon was the victim, not GZ who had the gun and killed Trayvon. If truth is on his side, then his lawyer doesn't have to use dirty tricks, manipulate public opinion or leak information and disinformation, and the evidence will speak for itself, IMO.

Kimberlyd125
05-17-2012, 07:39 PM
Wow. I'm trying to read everything and this has most likely already been mentioned, but on page 56, it talks about Mr. Martin listening to the 911 tapes and he says the screams were not Trayvon.

mikeysmommom
05-17-2012, 07:39 PM
And you know this, how? I believe this is your opinion which does not make it fact. Here it is presumed that Trayvon was stoned which led to the suspensions. Cause and effect. There is no evidence of him being stoned then, and no evidence that that is what caused his behaviour to incur suspensions and certainly no evidence that MJ leads to irrational and impulsive behaviour unless you care to provide some.

There was evidence he was found to be in possession of a pipe and an empty bag that had contained MJ on school property leading to his 3rd suspension.That his behavior and also defacing school property caused him to be found with an altered screwdriver and woman's jewelry did in fact cause his suspension another time as well.Any teen who brigs a pipe and baggy that had pot in it to school is not thinking wisely IMO.

MaryAnn
05-17-2012, 07:40 PM
When I was a teen my 24 yr old aunt called me she was crying and very paranoid.It took me 10 minutes to run to her house she was shaken ,paranoid. I got her in her house(she was outside in her yard crying and screaming)and I had to talk and reassure her the police were not coming to get her, I stayed with her till she came down from whatever the pot was laced with or for some reason it just really affected her badly if it wasn't laced.This was in the late 70's and she smoked it before.So anything can happen, If I was not there for her who knows what would have happened.

It was probably angel dust. You are talking about the 70's, that was when everyone partied. The hippi days. I know because I graduated high school in 71 and drugs were everywhere. really bad drugs and pot laced with all kinds of carp. I seriously doubt just a joint would do that but everyone is different. That's not a normal reaction to MJ.

BiancaS
05-17-2012, 07:41 PM
Imo, taking a pot pipe to school in your back pack, in itself, is a poor decision. It is an impulsive action, and a bad decision, imo. And it was his third suspension, and the other two were also products of poor decision making skills and bad judgment, imo.

And YES, there is plenty of evidence that smoking strong weed, like the kind young people smoke today, leads to poor decision making and often bad choices.

Respectfully, we don't know that there were 3 suspensions, there has been some very bad reporting that was using leaked (unconfirmed info) in the Miami Herald. My understanding, from the parents, there was a situation with writing on a locker and because of it, they seized his backback and found the bag with marijuana residue (not a pipe from what I have heard), a screwdriver, and some jewelry. All one incident, not separate ones as some have suggested. He has been described favorably by teachers at his school, he was known as a good student. MOO.

m00c0w
05-17-2012, 07:42 PM
Well, I do. It seems to me that the proximity would make it much more difficult to fire a completely straight shot. Thanks for answering.

Why? The gun was almost pressed to his chest, from the reports. I would find a longer-distance shot more likely to be not-straight, as there's likelier to be a difference in elevation between the gun and where it hits.

cityslick
05-17-2012, 07:42 PM
Guys, I'm not a mod, but there is a ton of other stuff to be talking about that should have tons of debate.

Like for example why any officer or detective would tell a witness that the screams came from GZ, not TM as if he knew that information.

Like two separate witnesses collaborating GZ's story that he was at the bottom getting beat up.

Like the location of the body actually being closer to the cut through then we originally thought.

etc, etc

elementary
05-17-2012, 07:42 PM
Why would they take a buccal swab from GZ, and MORE IMPORTANTLY, can't that now be used to drug test GZ??? Medical experts??

I wondered about that as well. Usually it's for DNA, isn't it? They also swabbed the gun for DNA and took Trayvon's DNA. Maybe that's why, so they can use GZ's and Trayvon's DNA to see whose DNA was on the gun. That's my guess.

Oh, and they took fingernail scrapings from Trayvon.

m00c0w
05-17-2012, 07:42 PM
So are you saying that Trayvon was a drug trafficker?

Because I don't see drug trafficking and drug consuming in the same criminal ballpark at all.
Do you think that the drugs just appeared? He obviously bought them or acquired them at some point. That's trafficking.

mikeysmommom
05-17-2012, 07:46 PM
Well I hope he's a better truth teller than when he perjured himself on the stand about his financial status. "Railroaded"? Trayvon was the victim, not GZ who had the gun and killed Trayvon. If truth is on his side, then his lawyer doesn't have to use dirty tricks, manipulate public opinion or leak information and disinformation, and the evidence will speak for itself, IMO.

The LAW did speak loud and clear and said GZ acted in self defense it was only after Mr.Crumb used IMO dirty tricks, manipulate public opinion or leak information and disinformation to the media that was what started the railroading of GZ IMO and many others.The truth is speaking loud and clear with each piece of REAL info that is now being released to the public.The same evidence that already spoke loud and clear that night is once again speaking just as loud and clear IMO.Self defense is not murder it is our right under the law.Funny the judge did not feel GZ perjured himself because if he did he would be in a jail cell instead of being free.

marlame
05-17-2012, 07:46 PM
I agree with everything you said , I also feel it is so much healthier and safer then taking pain meds which will cause aggression in some people.The point of TM possible smoking a joint that night IMO is very important because that might explain why TM might have attacked GZ because if TM was either looking for a private spot to smoke or was seen in a hidden spot to GZ it might have looked very suspicious.Also some people do get paranoid when they smoke,TM might have freaked thinking to stop GZ from calling 911 on him and getting police involved.IF GZ took out his phone to call police and said I am calling the cops TM might have punched him in the face to prevent that call not knowing they were called already.TM was on his 3rd suspension from school , most likely his parents probably told him to stay out of trouble Le would be the last people he would want called on him IMO. I wonder if the amount was small in his blood if he had been looking for a spot to smoke in when GZ first spotted him and maybe he ditched any pot he had then came back to confront GZ.


Well according to Dr. Drew- someone i would consider an expert--

"In an interview Thursday night, HLN’s Dr. Drew Pinsky said, “The pot means, in my mind, almost nothing in this case. If you smoke pot … it can stay that way for hours or even days in heavy smokers. It means almost nothing in terms of someone being aggressive.”

He did explain that if someone is withdrawing from the drug, it is possible for that person to become slightly paranoid or irritable.

However, he noted, “I don't think it has any relevance and certainly doesn't in any way suggest that somebody should have been the object of lethal force because they have low level pot in their blood. To me, it’s outrageous.”
http://www.hlntv.com/video/2012/05/17/dr-drew-talks-trayvon-martin-autposy-report


Maybe it is time to move on from the Pot issue? Lots of other info in this DOC dump...

JMHO~

elementary
05-17-2012, 07:47 PM
Well, I do. It seems to me that the proximity would make it much more difficult to fire a completely straight shot. Thanks for answering.

Okay, I'm not crazy! I wondered about that as well! For the shot to be so straight, Trayvon would have to be absolutely parallel to GZ. I'm still trying to figure out how GZ got his gun out of his holster if Trayvon was on top of him and then was able to move the gun to his heart straight on.

mikeysmommom
05-17-2012, 07:48 PM
Guys, I'm not a mod, but there is a ton of other stuff to be talking about that should have tons of debate.

Like for example why any officer or detective would tell a witness that the screams came from GZ, not TM as if he knew that information.

Like two separate witnesses collaborating GZ's story that he was at the bottom getting beat up.

Like the location of the body actually being closer to the cut through then we originally thought.

etc, etc

Your right but talking about the things you mentioned all go to GZ telling the truth.

gxm
05-17-2012, 07:48 PM
IMO, the important aspect about THC being in TM's system is that it supports GZ's claim that he looked like he was on drugs. IMO, this can be used by the defense to show that GZ had reason to be suspicious.

JMO, OMO, and :moo:

AJ Noiter
05-17-2012, 07:49 PM
Well according to Dr. Drew- someone i would consider an expert--

"In an interview Thursday night, HLNs Dr. Drew Pinsky said, The pot means, in my mind, almost nothing in this case. If you smoke pot it can stay that way for hours or even days in heavy smokers. It means almost nothing in terms of someone being aggressive.

He did explain that if someone is withdrawing from the drug, it is possible for that person to become slightly paranoid or irritable.

However, he noted, I don't think it has any relevance and certainly doesn't in any way suggest that somebody should have been the object of lethal force because they have low level pot in their blood. To me, its outrageous.

Maybe it is time to move on from the Pot issue? Lots of other info in this DOC dump...

JMHO~



I've always liked Dr. Drew, and I agree with him. No one should be shot because they smoked some pot. He did not make a statement about being shot because you're assaulting someone.

TorisMom003
05-17-2012, 07:49 PM
I want to know why it is clearly in the report that Zimmerman's jacket is described as "One (1) grey/orange colored Free Country brand name jacket, size extra large, collected from Zimmerman at the Sanford Police Department" when it was clearly a black/red jacket that is seen in the video and described as that color by the officer on scene? If that kind of obvious mistake is made then what else is wrong in the reports about what was collected?

MaryAnn
05-17-2012, 07:49 PM
Imo, taking a pot pipe to school in your back pack, in itself, is a poor decision. It is an impulsive action, and a bad decision, imo. And it was his third suspension, and the other two were also products of poor decision making skills and bad judgment, imo.

And YES, there is plenty of evidence that smoking strong weed, like the kind young people smoke today, leads to poor decision making and often bad choices.

GZ was an adult, TM was still a minor. I think GZ's actions were far worse than anything TM ever thought about doing. I guess it's ok to take pills, leave your home patroling with a loaded gun, get agitated for no apparent reason, call 911 to report a kid minding his own business. This is all normal behavior? If GZ had been smoking he might have stayed home sat on the couch watched TV, ate, and we wouldn't be discussing this right now.

MaryAnn
05-17-2012, 07:51 PM
IMO, the important aspect about THC being in TM's system is that it supports GZ's claim that he looked like he was on drugs. IMO, this can be used by the defense to show that GZ had reason to be suspicious.

JMO, OMO, and :moo:

Wasn't it dark? If GZ could see TM's eyes that clearly he must be the Bionic Man

mikeysmommom
05-17-2012, 07:51 PM
Well according to Dr. Drew- someone i would consider an expert--

"In an interview Thursday night, HLNs Dr. Drew Pinsky said, The pot means, in my mind, almost nothing in this case. If you smoke pot it can stay that way for hours or even days in heavy smokers. It means almost nothing in terms of someone being aggressive.

He did explain that if someone is withdrawing from the drug, it is possible for that person to become slightly paranoid or irritable.

However, he noted, I don't think it has any relevance and certainly doesn't in any way suggest that somebody should have been the object of lethal force because they have low level pot in their blood. To me, its outrageous.
http://www.hlntv.com/video/2012/05/17/dr-drew-talks-trayvon-martin-autposy-report


Maybe it is time to move on from the Pot issue? Lots of other info in this DOC dump...

JMHO~

Dr.Drew is a paid talking head IMO what is outrageous is dimissing drug use when the reason GZ was even watching TM to begin with is because he was acting suspicious like he was on drugs and his blood shows he had THC in his system.IMO It lends truth to what GZ said to the 911 dispatch that night.

katydid23
05-17-2012, 07:53 PM
Well according to Dr. Drew- someone i would consider an expert--

"In an interview Thursday night, HLNs Dr. Drew Pinsky said, The pot means, in my mind, almost nothing in this case. If you smoke pot it can stay that way for hours or even days in heavy smokers. It means almost nothing in terms of someone being aggressive.

He did explain that if someone is withdrawing from the drug, it is possible for that person to become slightly paranoid or irritable.

However, he noted, I don't think it has any relevance and certainly doesn't in any way suggest that somebody should have been the object of lethal force because they have low level pot in their blood. To me, its outrageous.
http://www.hlntv.com/video/2012/05/17/dr-drew-talks-trayvon-martin-autposy-report


Maybe it is time to move on from the Pot issue? Lots of other info in this DOC dump...

JMHO~

Do Drew's words hold that much weight? He is just one of the many talking heads. Personally, I think the THC might be important in this case. I think it adds credibility to what GZ said in the 911 call. JMO

mikeysmommom
05-17-2012, 07:53 PM
I've always liked Dr. Drew, and I agree with him. No one should be shot because they smoked some pot. He did not make a statement about being shot because you're assaulting someone.

Your right no one should be shot for smoking pot.GZ shot TM for attacking him and in FL the SYG law gave GZ the right to save his own life.

IzzyBlanche
05-17-2012, 07:54 PM
Do you think that the drugs just appeared? He obviously bought them or acquired them at some point. That's trafficking.


No it isn't.

Under the federal sentencing guidelines, a "drug trafficking offense" as "an offense under federal, state, or local law that prohibits the manufacture, import, export, distribution, or dispensing of a controlled substance (or a counterfeit substance) or the possession of a controlled substance (or a counterfeit substance) with intent to manufacture, import, export, distribute, or dispense."

Source: http://definitions.uslegal.com/d/drug-trafficking/

m00c0w
05-17-2012, 07:56 PM
I just took a couple of pictures really quickly... I'll see if I can do better later. I need to think of how to depict what I'm thinking better.

In the first picture, you'll see the weapon is unloaded.

In the second picture, I just have it generally pointed towards my chest. Because it's so close, there's not really a lot of different ways you can aim the gun while still aiming it at the person. It's not like you're a few feet away and there's room for there to be a fairly noticeable angle.

mikeysmommom
05-17-2012, 07:56 PM
Do Drew's words hold that much weight? He is just one of the many talking heads. Personally, I think the THC might be important in this case. I think it adds credibility to what GZ said in the 911 call. JMO


GZ made his bed and now he needs to lie in it. If he hadn't been carelessly patroling with a gun he wouldn't be facing life in prison. Maybe others will learn from GZ's huge mistake that took out the life of a young Man!!!

GZ deserves to spend the rest of his life in jail in the very least. Trayvon has no life!

IMO If TM did not attack GZ he would be alive right now.If GZ did not have a gun, I am not so sure he would be.

m00c0w
05-17-2012, 07:57 PM
No it isn't.

Under the federal sentencing guidelines, a "drug trafficking offense" as "an offense under federal, state, or local law that prohibits the manufacture, import, export, distribution, or dispensing of a controlled substance (or a counterfeit substance) or the possession of a controlled substance (or a counterfeit substance) with intent to manufacture, import, export, distribute, or dispense."

Source: http://definitions.uslegal.com/d/drug-trafficking/
Did I say he violated the federal trafficking law?

2
: trade, barter
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/trafficking

katydid23
05-17-2012, 07:58 PM
GZ was an adult, TM was still a minor. I think GZ's actions were far worse than anything TM ever thought about doing. I guess it's ok to take pills, leave your home patroling with a loaded gun, get agitated for no apparent reason, call 911 to report a kid minding his own business. This is all normal behavior? If GZ had been smoking he might have stayed home sat on the couch watched TV, ate, and we wouldn't be discussing this right now.

As I have said a million times, I believe that GZ should have been arrested for manslaughter that night. He was wrong for leaving his car and making this whole tragedy happen.

But I do not agree that he is guilty of purposely murdering an innocent kid. I think it was a perfect storm of tragic circumstances, that led to the killing.

Montjoy
05-17-2012, 07:58 PM
The point of TM possible smoking a joint that night IMO is very important because that might explain why TM might have attacked GZ because if TM was either looking for a private spot to smoke or was seen in a hidden spot to GZ it might have looked very suspicious.

RSBM

Oh, was he found in possession of pot that night? I didn't read that.

mikeysmommom
05-17-2012, 07:58 PM
No it isn't.

Under the federal sentencing guidelines, a "drug trafficking offense" as "an offense under federal, state, or local law that prohibits the manufacture, import, export, distribution, or dispensing of a controlled substance (or a counterfeit substance) or the possession of a controlled substance (or a counterfeit substance) with intent to manufacture, import, export, distribute, or dispense."

Source: http://definitions.uslegal.com/d/drug-trafficking/

If you buy an ounce or 20 dollars worth and split it up and sell it to your friends it is trafficking.

jaded cat
05-17-2012, 07:59 PM
Why is this even a topic for discussion? He may or may not have smoked within the last few days, none was found on him that night and it's all more smoke and mirrors for GZ's attempted defense!

That makes him the recipient, not the dealer.

marlame
05-17-2012, 08:00 PM
IMO, the important aspect about THC being in TM's system is that it supports GZ's claim that he looked like he was on drugs. IMO, this can be used by the defense to show that GZ had reason to be suspicious.

JMO, OMO, and :moo:

But... It can also help the prosecution in that a kid smoking some dope would be far less inclined to start an altercation under the influence of a little POT.

A resonable person understands the effects of smoking pot---mellows you out!

Let's see... ADHD guy vs. kid under influence of pot which one would be the aggressor???? I am not saying either tells us what happened... but for the love of ducks, lets not get hung up on the POT. Please!

JMHO~

m00c0w
05-17-2012, 08:00 PM
That makes him the recipient, not the dealer.

Where did I say he was a dealer?

IzzyBlanche
05-17-2012, 08:01 PM
I want to know why it is clearly in the report that Zimmerman's jacket is described as "One (1) grey/orange colored Free Country brand name jacket, size extra large, collected from Zimmerman at the Sanford Police Department" when it was clearly a black/red jacket that is seen in the video and described as that color by the officer on scene? If that kind of obvious mistake is made then what else is wrong in the reports about what was collected?


IN some of the pictures I saw today it definitely looked more orange than red.

elementary
05-17-2012, 08:01 PM
I agree with everything you said , I also feel it is so much healthier and safer then taking pain meds which will cause aggression in some people.The point of TM possible smoking a joint that night IMO is very important because that might explain why TM might have attacked GZ because if TM was either looking for a private spot to smoke or was seen in a hidden spot to GZ it might have looked very suspicious.Also some people do get paranoid when they smoke,TM might have freaked thinking to stop GZ from calling 911 on him and getting police involved.IF GZ took out his phone to call police and said I am calling the cops TM might have punched him in the face to prevent that call not knowing they were called already.TM was on his 3rd suspension from school , most likely his parents probably told him to stay out of trouble Le would be the last people he would want called on him IMO. I wonder if the amount was small in his blood if he had been looking for a spot to smoke in when GZ first spotted him and maybe he ditched any pot he had then came back to confront GZ.

This may be your scenario and this may be your theory but it's not based on evidence about MJ. And if you've ever been stoned, you know that fear and avoidance are more likely than aggression. You make this kid sound like a heavy, heavy user and there is no evidence to that effect. It's not fair to perpetrate a myth about marijuana to make it fit this scenario. And it's not fair to perpetrate a criminal attitude concerning Trayvon by using misinformation and then continuing to perpetuate it, instead of looking at the evidence aligned to fact. IMO. If GZ, indeed, is innocent than the facts will speak for themselves, don't you think?

vlpate
05-17-2012, 08:01 PM
That doesn't make him destined to a life of crime! that's absolutely ridiculous

GZ was on pills and was carrying a gun! GZ is up for 2nd degree murder so I guess his pill taking can also lead to a life of crime. The pills he was taking make you aggitated and angry, weed mellows you out.

I haven't come to GZ's toxicology report yet, do you have a link? TIA

MaryAnn
05-17-2012, 08:01 PM
Dr.Drew is a paid talking head IMO what is outrageous is dimissing drug use when the reason GZ was even watching TM to begin with is because he was acting suspicious like he was on drugs and his blood shows he had THC in his system.IMO It lends truth to what GZ said to the 911 dispatch that night.

Doesn't it matter that GZ was on heavier drugs? Just because they are prescription doesn't mean he didn't have some kind of "high" going on. People abuse Adderal all the time.

Adderall is a drug of abuse and may be habit-forming. Keep track of the amount of medicine used from each new bottle. You should be aware if anyone is using your medicine improperly or without a prescription. Using this medication improperly can cause death or serious side effects on the heart.

http://www.drugs.com/adderall.html

mikeysmommom
05-17-2012, 08:02 PM
RSBM

Oh, was he found in possession of pot that night? I didn't read that.

He might have ditched it when he disappeared before he came back to confront GZ.That makes more sense to me if you read what I posted that is what I meant.He carried a lighter for a reason and yes he might have smoked a joint that night or like I said ditched his pot before he confronted GZ.IMO makes sense to me.

katydid23
05-17-2012, 08:02 PM
But... It can also help the prosecution in that a kid smoking some dope would be far less inclined to start an altercation under the influence of a little POT.

A resonable person understands the effects of smoking pot---mellows you out. Let's see ADHD guy vs. kid under influence of pot which one would be the aggressor???? I am not saying either tells us what happened... but for the love of ducks, lets not get hung up on the POT. Please!

JMHO~

Do you know how many times they have reported on the drug tests of kids who committed crimes or even killed their parents, or did a drive by shooting, and POT was found in their systems? It happens all of the time.

That kid who killed his parents and then threw a party, he smoked pot right before he bludgeoned them to death.

liedetector
05-17-2012, 08:03 PM
okay, anyone have any ideas about this: Sanford Fire Department at the scene for zimmerman: "Cause of Injury: Struck by blunt / thrown object. (9640) Mechanism of Injury: Blunt"

mikeysmommom
05-17-2012, 08:03 PM
Doesn't it matter that GZ was on heavier drugs? Just because they are prescription doesn't mean he didn't have some kind of "high" going on. People abuse Adderal all the time.

Adderall is a drug of abuse and may be habit-forming. Keep track of the amount of medicine used from each new bottle. You should be aware if anyone is using your medicine improperly or without a prescription. Using this medication improperly can cause death or serious side effects on the heart.

http://www.drugs.com/adderall.html

I haven't not seen any documentation stating he had it in his system,or whether or not he has a legal prescription.If you have a link I would like to read it.TIA

m00c0w
05-17-2012, 08:03 PM
Doesn't it matter that GZ was on heavier drugs? Just because they are prescription doesn't mean he didn't have some kind of "high" going on. People abuse Adderal all the time.

Adderall is a drug of abuse and may be habit-forming. Keep track of the amount of medicine used from each new bottle. You should be aware if anyone is using your medicine improperly or without a prescription. Using this medication improperly can cause death or serious side effects on the heart.

http://www.drugs.com/adderall.html
Was he? Do you have evidence that he was regularly taking his medication? Or that he was addicted to it? Or consuming it in quantities not prescribed (illegally)? Do you have any evidence at all to back up what you're implying?

IzzyBlanche
05-17-2012, 08:04 PM
If you buy an ounce or 20 dollars worth and split it up and sell it to your friends it is trafficking.


And where has it been stated that Trayvon did that?

jaded cat
05-17-2012, 08:04 PM
I'm also guessing that if TM had been smoking pot recently, it would have been obvious to both the EMTs and the police. I damn well know they are very familiar with that very distinctive smell.

suzihawk
05-17-2012, 08:04 PM
Do you think that the drugs just appeared? He obviously bought them or acquired them at some point. That's trafficking.

That's a huge stretch, IMO. Just because Trayvon had a minute amount of THC in his system (which could have been ingested days or weeks prior), it doesn't catapult him to the status of a drug trafficker.

vlpate
05-17-2012, 08:04 PM
But... It can also help the prosecution in that a kid smoking some dope would be far less inclined to start an altercation under the influence of a little POT.

A resonable person understands the effects of smoking pot---mellows you out!

Let's see... ADHD guy vs. kid under influence of pot which one would be the aggressor???? I am not saying either tells us what happened... but for the love of ducks, lets not get hung up on the POT. Please!

JMHO~

ADHD guy? The guy with the legal prescription vs the guy with the non-prescribed pot in his system? Hard to imagine the prosecution would dwell long on that.

songline
05-17-2012, 08:05 PM
Seems that GZ was telling the truth IMO When all evidence is out that he will be covered under the SYG law.IMO The judge will dismiss all charges and GZ is the one who will have the gigantic lawsuit against the state of FL. I wonder if GZ will be able to sue Mr.Crump and others who clearly lied to the media in order to smear GZ as a killer instead of a person who mostly saved his own life that night.

I sure hope he can.

m00c0w
05-17-2012, 08:05 PM
That's a huge stretch, IMO. Just because Trayvon had a minute amount of THC in his system (which could have been ingested days or weeks prior), it doesn't catapult him to the status of a drug trafficker.

Sigh.

I've already posted the definition of trafficking. It simply means he either imported and/or exported. He obviously imported if he had it. Nothing more, nothing less.

mikeysmommom
05-17-2012, 08:05 PM
okay, anyone have any ideas about this: Sanford Fire Department at the scene for zimmerman: "Cause of Injury: Struck by blunt / thrown object. (9640) Mechanism of Injury: Blunt"

Could that be GZ head hitting the sidewalk or a rock for his injuries to the back of his head ?

AJ Noiter
05-17-2012, 08:06 PM
How about that FBI report on page 147 where the FBI audio experts could not determine the word after "fu**ing" ?

Oh, and it also says the audio is of insufficient quality to make a determination on whose voice it is. Weird.

Phoenixfla
05-17-2012, 08:07 PM
I'm a medical marijuana patient and I don't make poor choices, do impulsive or irrational things. I didn't when I was smoking illegally in 1971. It reacts differrently for everyone.

We have no evidence of TM doing any of these things, other than GZ's statement. I choose not to believe GZ's version of events.

Exactly the point.

MaryAnn
05-17-2012, 08:07 PM
Was he? Do you have evidence that he was regularly taking his medication? Or that he was addicted to it? Or consuming it in quantities not prescribed (illegally)? Do you have any evidence at all to back up what you're implying?


According to the report, prior to the shooting Zimmerman had been prescribed Adderall and Temazepam, medications that can cause side effects such as agitation and mood swings, but in fewer than 10 percent of patients

http://taylormarsh.com/blog/2012/05/abc-report-george-zimmerman-injuries-described-prescription-drugs-also-cited-in-weeks-prior-to-shooting/

Dr.Fessel
05-17-2012, 08:07 PM
Sure looks a lot different then that pic in back of the car. LOL

http://i249.photobucket.com/albums/gg216/kensaroo/zimmerman_head_and_shoulders_good_portrait_shot.jp g

http://www.wftv.com/gallery/news/local/evidence-photos-show-bloodied-zimmerman-gun-more/ggFb/#1538974

jaded cat
05-17-2012, 08:07 PM
Do you know how many times they have reported on the drug tests of kids who committed crimes or even killed their parents, or did a drive by shooting, and POT was found in their systems? It happens all of the time.

That kid who killed his parents and then threw a party, he smoked pot right before he bludgeoned them to death.

Most often in conjunction with other drugs. Very few are done simply under the influence of pot.

m00c0w
05-17-2012, 08:08 PM
According to the report, prior to the shooting Zimmerman had been prescribed Adderall and Temazepam, medications that can cause side effects such as agitation and mood swings, but in fewer than 10 percent of patients

http://taylormarsh.com/blog/2012/05/abc-report-george-zimmerman-injuries-described-prescription-drugs-also-cited-in-weeks-prior-to-shooting/
Okay. And I have bottles and bottles of ibuprofen and even a bottle containing some Vicodin that I've been prescribed and never taken (as well as a script for an even higher dosage that I never had filled). How does this make it evident that he was abusing drugs in any form, or even taking them?

Elley Mae
05-17-2012, 08:09 PM
But... It can also help the prosecution in that a kid smoking some dope would be far less inclined to start an altercation under the influence of a little POT.

A resonable person understands the effects of smoking pot---mellows you out!

Let's see... ADHD guy vs. kid under influence of pot which one would be the aggressor???? I am not saying either tells us what happened... but for the love of ducks, lets not get hung up on the POT. Please!

JMHO~

bbbm
I totally agree

jaded cat
05-17-2012, 08:09 PM
Exactly the point.

I don't see that as a reason to turn this info around and claim it's all because TM may or may not have been smoking pot that night.

You are no doing that, I used your post as a jump off point for my own potentially pointless opinion. :)

Littleone48
05-17-2012, 08:10 PM
IMO, the important aspect about THC being in TM's system is that it supports GZ's claim that he looked like he was on drugs. IMO, this can be used by the defense to show that GZ had reason to be suspicious.

JMO, OMO, and :moo:

Really and you came to this how? With that little bit of THC in the blood I highly doubt that GZ could tell that TM was "on" drugs.

Really it's POT not meth, not percs, not herion, it's Pot which is LEGAL in 92% of the United States in small amounts.

I've talked to LE after smoking and once I had someone bring me a a few Pot cookies for a friend that is terminal so he would at least eat something. They were sitting on my desk and the cop picked them up, laughed and we had a fairly long conversation about it. He agreed with me that he would much rather deal with someone who was stoned than someone on the above mentioned drugs.

Pot has many Good uses and for me, it has helped me to be able to do my activities of daily living better than any pain pill I have taken. There is also a medication for cancer patients derived from pot.

There is so much more about this case than the small amount of TLC in TM blood...to me it is a moat point but one that those who feel GZ had the right to do what he did will jump all over simply because it's against the law...

IzzyBlanche
05-17-2012, 08:10 PM
Did I say he violated the federal trafficking law?

2
: trade, barter
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/trafficking

OK, I refuse to get in a pi$$ing match with you over semantics. IMO the commonly understood (as well as legal) definition of trafficking includes the element of intending to distribute, not a simple pot buy for personal use.

m00c0w
05-17-2012, 08:11 PM
Sure looks a lot different then that pic in back of the car. LOL

http://i249.photobucket.com/albums/gg216/kensaroo/zimmerman_head_and_shoulders_good_portrait_shot.jp g

http://www.wftv.com/gallery/news/local/evidence-photos-show-bloodied-zimmerman-gun-more/ggFb/#1538974

http://media.cmgdigital.com/shared/lt/lt_cache/thumbnail/615/img/photos/2012/05/17/06/ab/zimmerman_bloody_head_close_up.JPG
Sure looks a lot different than no visible injuries. LOL

vlpate
05-17-2012, 08:11 PM
That's a huge stretch, IMO. Just because Trayvon had a minute amount of THC in his system (which could have been ingested days or weeks prior), it doesn't catapult him to the status of a drug trafficker.

Dr. Wecht said the THC found in the blood shows it was ingested a few hours before. The urine levels would show earlier.

cityslick
05-17-2012, 08:12 PM
Sure looks a lot different then that pic in back of the car. LOL

http://i249.photobucket.com/albums/gg216/kensaroo/zimmerman_head_and_shoulders_good_portrait_shot.jp g

http://www.wftv.com/gallery/news/local/evidence-photos-show-bloodied-zimmerman-gun-more/ggFb/#1538974

The black and white was probably taken pre-EMT.

BTW, black eyes can show up after the fact.

m00c0w
05-17-2012, 08:12 PM
OK, I refuse to get in a pi$$ing match with you over semantics. IMO the commonly understood (as well as legal) of trafficking includes the element of intending to distribute, not a simple pot buy for personal use.
You're the one hanging onto a single word I used in a brief statement that really has no impact on anything...

Reader
05-17-2012, 08:12 PM
Page 136/183 TM was found behind 2861 Retreat View Circle

That typed apt. number conflicts with what the ME wrote by hand on p.135:

#2831......where is that and which one is correct?

suzihawk
05-17-2012, 08:13 PM
Mark Geragos on Anderson said the pot issues probably won't enter into the trial. He said, "I don't think it's going to be of any great moment. Most judges wouldn't let that in because it's not like it's meth or PCP or that type of drug. They have so much trouble detemining at what levels you're under the influence to begin with that I don't think it's of any great moment."

cityslick
05-17-2012, 08:14 PM
That typed apt. number conflicts with what the ME wrote by hand on p.135:

#2831......where is that and which one is correct?

ME may have written the wrong thing, I'm sure he was just copying it from the report.

m00c0w
05-17-2012, 08:14 PM
That typed apt. number conflicts with what the ME wrote by hand on p.135:

#2831......where is that and which one is correct?

The crime scene photos all appear to revolve around the 2861 address.

AJ Noiter
05-17-2012, 08:14 PM
The black and white was probably taken pre-EMT.

BTW, black eyes can show up after the fact.

It was. The officer who took it wrote a report that says it was taken while he was in the back seat of the police cruiser. He also had a trainee with him - this detail provided to help identify the police officer that wrote the report.

ariesgodofwar
05-17-2012, 08:14 PM
About the gunshot, think about it. If I am right handed, lying supine, and someone were on top of me, if I were to shift my weight weak side and draw from the 5 o'clock IWB holster I carry and fire, TM was hit exactly where you would expect someone in that position to be shot. Right hand of shooter to left side of close proximity "victim." (Keeping in mind that orientation wise, two folks facing each other, the left is the right side of the other.)

I would say information perfectly aligns with the claim that TM was indeed on top of GZ. The Keltec GZ carried was very, very thin. Much thinner than the CZ P-06 .40S&W I carry. I would have to exert much more effort to draw my sidearm with someone on top of me than GZ would have. You could have slipped that pistol in a back pocket it is so thin.

m00c0w
05-17-2012, 08:16 PM
About the gunshot, think about it. If I am right handed, lying supine, and someone were on top of me, if I were to shift my weight weak side and draw from the 5 o'clock IWB holster I carry and fire, TM was hit exactly where you would expect someone in that position to be shot. Right hand of shooter to left side of close proximity "victim." (Keeping in mind that orientation wise, two folks facing each other, the left is the right side of the other.)

I would say information perfectly aligns with the claim that TM was indeed on top of GZ. The Keltec GZ carried was very, very thin. Much thinner than the CZ P-06 .40S&W I carry. I would have to exert much more effort to draw my sidearm with someone on top of me than GZ would have. You could have slipped that pistol in a back pocket it is so thin.
Do we know he was carrying at the 5? I've always pictured appendix-carry, and I've seen references to that style on the news. I'm pretty sure if he was carrying it up front, it'd be no big deal to slide it out.

beach
05-17-2012, 08:16 PM
This thread is LOUD and contentious enough.


Please stop with the large font bold red shouting.


Everyone can hear just fine. No shouting or screaming here.

suzihawk
05-17-2012, 08:18 PM
Guys, I'm not a mod, but there is a ton of other stuff to be talking about that should have tons of debate.

Like for example why any officer or detective would tell a witness that the screams came from GZ, not TM as if he knew that information.

Like two separate witnesses collaborating GZ's story that he was at the bottom getting beat up.

Like the location of the body actually being closer to the cut through then we originally thought.

etc, etc

It appears that the THC found in Trayvon's system is quite a big deal to some posters. Since it's a part of this doc dump, it should be a subject that is open to debate, IMO.

elementary
05-17-2012, 08:20 PM
Dr.Drew is a paid talking head IMO what is outrageous is dimissing drug use when the reason GZ was even watching TM to begin with is because he was acting suspicious like he was on drugs and his blood shows he had THC in his system.IMO It lends truth to what GZ said to the 911 dispatch that night.

It might help to actually know something about marijuana and how it makes you behave. The film, "Reefer Madness" is laughable but I can understand if someone perceives the effects of MJ that way, which in that movie, showed people to act like raving lunatics. There is no weird behaviour on MJ unless you think stuffing your face is weird. There is no way GZ would have known if Trayvon were stoned unless he was on PCP or something. But I am sure there are lots of people out there who believe that MJ makes you wacky and suspect. Until you actually research it. Still waiting for that.

I don't understand the clinging to misinformation about MJ. I just don't understand it, when one can research it very readily.

And even though Pinsky, IMO, is a contemptible shill, the fact is, as an addictions physician, he knows his drugs. And IMO, the whole MJ issue is a tempest in a teapot because the effects of MJ are being distorted.

vlpate
05-17-2012, 08:21 PM
Guys, I'm not a mod, but there is a ton of other stuff to be talking about that should have tons of debate.

Like for example why any officer or detective would tell a witness that the screams came from GZ, not TM as if he knew that information.

Like two separate witnesses collaborating GZ's story that he was at the bottom getting beat up.

Like the location of the body actually being closer to the cut through then we originally thought.

etc, etc

ITA, and I'm trying to find the g/f's statement, is that here and I'm missing it? TIA!

songline
05-17-2012, 08:21 PM
AS I mentioned upthread, Trayvon had only 1.5 to 2 nanograms in his blood. Pinsky said that if he had been smoking at the time, it would be 100. It's possible, he also said, that he smoked it 2 hours ago. But possibly days ago as well.

We can imagine all day long but it was there in his blood and he smoked it minutes or 2 hours ago. All else is just imagine....

What if he was smoking till he felt he was being followed? Stopped because he did not want to get busted.
I can also imagine - what if he thought he lost GZ and did light up, but then saw him and got mad that he cant smoke in peace.
Whatever we want to make of this will only be our interpretation. I have nothing against marijuana, IT WAS in his blood, and other things that I read I think GZ sized him up right, I only wish that GZ was at a barbeque that day with family. But somehow he was where he was and I am sorry he got out of the car to get an address for the 911 operator, but he did.
So far the Docu Dump has not shown us anything to change my opinion of what has happened that night.

jaded cat
05-17-2012, 08:22 PM
Do we know he was carrying at the 5? I've always pictured appendix-carry, and I've seen references to that style on the news. I'm pretty sure if he was carrying it up front, it'd be no big deal to slide it out.

Hope you don't mind answering a question for me? Carrying at the 5? Does it matter if you are left or right handed?

beach
05-17-2012, 08:22 PM
It appears that the THC found in Trayvon's system is quite a big deal to some posters. Since it's a part of this doc dump, it should be a subject that is open to debate, IMO.

Jumping off of your post -

I agree, it is open for debate but we all should probably take it to a topical thread. It seems to be dominating the discussion of all the docs released today. Lots of other enlightening things were released and they are getting lost in here.

I will be happy to open one in just a few minutes. Got a chicken baking and I need to finish dinner. Will be back to do it. Patience please.

suzihawk
05-17-2012, 08:23 PM
I want to know why it is clearly in the report that Zimmerman's jacket is described as "One (1) grey/orange colored Free Country brand name jacket, size extra large, collected from Zimmerman at the Sanford Police Department" when it was clearly a black/red jacket that is seen in the video and described as that color by the officer on scene? If that kind of obvious mistake is made then what else is wrong in the reports about what was collected?

From what I'm gathering, the grey/orange jacket is the one brought to the police station by his wife after the officer's collected his clothes (the black/red jacket). But your point is very well taken. It's the kind of mistake that shouldn't be made by officer's documenting evidence.

JMO

jjenny
05-17-2012, 08:24 PM
Do Drew's words hold that much weight? He is just one of the many talking heads. Personally, I think the THC might be important in this case. I think it adds credibility to what GZ said in the 911 call. JMO

Doesn't hold any weight to me.

LambChop
05-17-2012, 08:24 PM
Really and you came to this how? With that little bit of THC in the blood I highly doubt that GZ could tell that TM was "on" drugs.

Really it's POT not meth, not percs, not herion, it's Pot which is LEGAL in 92% of the United States in small amounts.

I've talked to LE after smoking and once I had someone bring me a a few Pot cookies for a friend that is terminal so he would at least eat something. They were sitting on my desk and the cop picked them up, laughed and we had a fairly long conversation about it. He agreed with me that he would much rather deal with someone who was stoned than someone on the above mentioned drugs.

Pot has many Good uses and for me, it has helped me to be able to do my activities of daily living better than any pain pill I have taken. There is also a medication for cancer patients derived from pot.

There is so much more about this case than the small amount of TLC in TM blood...to me it is a moat point but one that those who feel GZ had the right to do what he did will jump all over simply because it's against the law...

I thought you had to have over a certain amount before LE will arrest you. Is it over an ounce? Trying to remember what it was years ago. Plus when GZ said he was on something I believe he meant something stronger than pot. To me smoking pot is like having a couple of beers. lol Plus we do know he was suspended for having an empty bag so we know he used it. jmo

Badlands
05-17-2012, 08:26 PM
Anyone could end up in the same position as GZ and IMO that is scary as H3ll.Very possibly when all is said and done GZ is telling the truth but is still facing life in prison even though IMO he had every right under the law to save his own life.

Anyone?? It sure wouldn't happen to me because I wouldn't be stupid enough to follow someone with a gun, while they're just walking through my neighborhood.

songline
05-17-2012, 08:26 PM
It might help to actually know something about marijuana and how it makes you behave. The film, "Reefer Madness" is laughable but I can understand if someone perceives the effects of MJ that way, which in that movie, showed people to act like raving lunatics. There is no weird behaviour on MJ unless you think stuffing your face is weird. There is no way GZ would have known if Trayvon were stoned unless he was on PCP or something. But I am sure there are lots of people out there who believe that MJ makes you wacky and suspect. Until you actually research it. Still waiting for that.

I don't understand the clinging to misinformation about MJ. I just don't understand it, when one can research it very readily.

And even though Pinsky, IMO, is a contemptible shill, the fact is, as an addictions physician, he knows his drugs. And IMO, the whole MJ issue is a tempest in a teapot because the effects of MJ are being distorted.

I do know a few things, I was a teen in the 60's it can make some people sleepy and dragg themselves around,
which is not a natural walk.
Let me stop there because I have anything against smokers, but yes you can tell when someone is stoned.

i.b.nora
05-17-2012, 08:27 PM
Cityslick mentioned "Like the location of the body actually being closer to the cut through then we originally thought."

Is there something in the document about the actual location of the body? Or about the location of the scuffle?

As I mentioned before, I am unable to view scribd documents with my antique computer, so any help would be appreciated.

TorisMom003
05-17-2012, 08:28 PM
Based on the released reports of the swabs done on the gun, I'd have to say that there was no struggle for the gun as Zimmerman claimed.

Swabs from gun~
DMS-21A ~ From grip of gun ~ George's present; Trayvon's excluded
DMS-21B ~ From trigger of gun ~ Not interpretable
DMS~21C ~ From slide of gun ~ At least one male ~ Can not determine if it was George or Trayvon.

Also, on a different note, Zimmerman told SFD that he was on Librax and Tamazepam. This is marked on the report that also lists Zimmerman's injuries.

MOO

m00c0w
05-17-2012, 08:28 PM
Hope you don't mind answering a question for me? Carrying at the 5? Does it matter if you are left or right handed?
Imagine your body is a clock. Carrying the gun at the 5:00 position (right-back side) is extremely popular. This is how I normally carry. If you're a righty, you'd most likely carry in-the-waistband at the 1-2:00 or the 4-5:00. The opposite if you're a lefty.

As for right vs left-handed, it actually has to do with your eye dominance. I know lefties that shoot right-handed, and vice versa.

<modsnip>

Dr.Fessel
05-17-2012, 08:28 PM
The ME did the autopsy on a John Doe, Sanford did not tell them who Martin was till 2/28 at 12:30 noon.

The autopsy was done on feb 27 at 10:30 am

HiHater
05-17-2012, 08:29 PM
Where did the first aid kit come from? If it was a first responders, why is it pictured in evidence? Weird.

Also, do we know if the THC was a trace amount or not? It's really much ado about nothing, especially when we don't know what GZ was on...

AJ Noiter
05-17-2012, 08:29 PM
Based on the released reports of the swabs done on the gun, I'd have to say that there was no struggle for the gun as Zimmerman claimed.

Swabs from gun~
DMS-21A ~ From grip of gun ~ George's present; Trayvon's excluded
DMS-21B ~ From trigger of gun ~ Not interpretable
DMS~21C ~ From slide of gun ~ At least one male ~ Can not determine if it was George or Trayvon.

Also, on a different note, Zimmerman told SFD that he was on Librax and Tamazepam. This is marked on the report that also lists Zimmerman's injuries.

MOO


Just because they didn't find his DNA on it doesn't mean he wasn't trying to get it.

Edit: Also, I'd like to point out that they did not say "they did not get his DNA on it" in two of the three (66%) they could not make a determination.

AJ Noiter
05-17-2012, 08:29 PM
Where did the first aid kit come from? If it was a first responders, why is it pictured in evidence? Weird.

Also, do we know if the THC was a trace amount or not? It's really much ado about nothing, especially when we don't know what GZ was on...

Why did they mark the emergency blanket and gloves as evidence also? Everything at the scene must be documented, whether police put it there or otherwise. That's my thought.

TorisMom003
05-17-2012, 08:30 PM
From what I'm gathering, the grey/orange jacket is the one brought to the police station by his wife after the officer's collected his clothes (the black/red jacket). But your point is very well taken. It's the kind of mistake that shouldn't be made by officer's documenting evidence.

JMO

No, the "orange/grey" jacket is the one that was tested for gunshot residue, DNA, etc. Trust me, I looked at those reports on the color very closely because it is a clear contradiction to what the officer on scene stated along with the video of Zimmerman at the police station.

elementary
05-17-2012, 08:30 PM
We can imagine all day long but it was there in his blood and he smoked it minutes or 2 hours ago. All else is just imagine....

What if he was smoking till he felt he was being followed? Stopped because he did not want to get busted.
I can also imagine - what if he thought he lost GZ and did light up, but then saw him and got mad that he cant smoke in peace.
Whatever we want to make of this will only be our interpretation. I have nothing against marijuana, IT WAS in his blood, and other things that I read I think GZ sized him up right, I only wish that GZ was at a barbeque that day with family. But somehow he was where he was and I am sorry he got out of the car to get an address for the 911 operator, but he did.
So far the Docu Dump has not shown us anything to change my opinion of what has happened that night.

No, not minutes or the nanograms would be closer to 100 not 1.5-2. The latter, according to Dr Pinsky suggests a couple of hours ago.

How did GZ size him up right? Being stoned on MJ is not going to make you act weird. If you don't want to believe, then fine. But distorting info is not helping the defence of GZ, IMO. Wait, maybe it is! (just thinking of the Pinellas outcome).

LambChop
05-17-2012, 08:30 PM
ITA, and I'm trying to find the g/f's statement, is that here and I'm missing it? TIA!

On some of the pages it appears the whole statement is redacted. Could those be the statements from the minors????

m00c0w
05-17-2012, 08:31 PM
Based on the released reports of the swabs done on the gun, I'd have to say that there was no struggle for the gun as Zimmerman claimed.

Swabs from gun~
DMS-21A ~ From grip of gun ~ George's present; Trayvon's excluded
DMS-21B ~ From trigger of gun ~ Not interpretable
DMS~21C ~ From slide of gun ~ At least one male ~ Can not determine if it was George or Trayvon.

Also, on a different note, Zimmerman told SFD that he was on Librax and Tamazepam. This is marked on the report that also lists Zimmerman's injuries.

MOO
There were no latent prints found on the gun. There was blood on the grip from Zimmerman. Nothing conclusive on the slide. I'm not sure how you can conclude anything from that, other than Zimmerman bled on his hand and then grabbed his gun.

jaded cat
05-17-2012, 08:31 PM
Imagine your body is a clock. Carrying the gun at the 5:00 position (right-back side) is extremely popular. This is how I normally carry. If you're a righty, you'd most likely carry in-the-waistband at the 1-2:00 or the 4-5:00. The opposite if you're a lefty.

As for right vs left-handed, it actually has to do with your eye dominance. I know lefties that shoot right-handed, and vice versa.

respectfully snipped.

So, it's around your body, not up and down. That's where I was confused! Thanks for the info!

mikeysmommom
05-17-2012, 08:31 PM
Doesn't it matter that GZ was on heavier drugs? Just because they are prescription doesn't mean he didn't have some kind of "high" going on. People abuse Adderal all the time.

Adderall is a drug of abuse and may be habit-forming. Keep track of the amount of medicine used from each new bottle. You should be aware if anyone is using your medicine improperly or without a prescription. Using this medication improperly can cause death or serious side effects on the heart.

http://www.drugs.com/adderall.html

Link Please.

HiHater
05-17-2012, 08:32 PM
Anybody see a grass stain? I don't...

http://static.globalgrind.com/sites/default/files/imagecache/gallery_image/images/2012_may/dsc_0076_20120517174317_640_480.jpg

http://globalgrind.com/news/evidence-trayvon-martin-case-george-zimmerman-sanford-florida-details?gpage=12&#gtop

whiteangora
05-17-2012, 08:32 PM
Since when is it more important to do tox tests on the dead victim and not on the murderer? I can't believe what I'm reading here. Are people really suggesting that GZ did the world a favor by killing Trayvon because he was (in some peoples opinion) on the fast track of becoming a career criminal? Because he smoked some pot? We aren't talking about some wild rabib animal here that needed to be euthanized..... just a boy, not quite a man who was walking home from a store doing nothing wrong.
The NY Times article states that GZ's vehicle was never even looked at because his wife came and got it. For all we know it could have been filled with empty beer bottles, and who knows what else. The Sanford PD needs to hide their heads in shame for the rotten job they did.
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/05/17/us...pagewanted=all (http://www.nytimes.com/2012/05/17/us/trayvon-martin-case-shadowed-by-police-missteps.html?_r=3&pagewanted=1&pagewanted=all)

m00c0w
05-17-2012, 08:33 PM
No, the "orange/grey" jacket is the one that was tested for gunshot residue, DNA, etc. Trust me, I looked at those reports on the color very closely because it is a clear contradiction to what the officer on scene stated along with the video of Zimmerman at the police station.

So it's a conspiracy and they got two totally different colored jackets with which to cover it up with? And the PD and ME are in on it?

I'm gonna go with "it was dark" and "poor lighting" on this one.

liedetector
05-17-2012, 08:33 PM
I haven't come to GZ's toxicology report yet, do you have a link? TIA

That's because they didn't order a toxicology report on GZ, only on the victim! So we'll never know how much speed, I mean Adderall - or anything else, George may have been in his system that night.

....From a justice standpoint it's too bad that GZ didn't go to the ER for a CT scan, because the docs would have performed a drug test there and then we would have that piece of the puzzle. Based on my experience with brain injury, I've found his avoidance of the ER mighty suspicious for a man who supposedly had his head beaten into cement, even once, let alone repeatedly.

gxm
05-17-2012, 08:34 PM
ALL of Zimmerman's calls to report suspicious persons were in regard to black males. (while he resided at Twin Lakes)

pg 8 of 13

So in a 7.5 year call history, the calls during a 4-1/2 month period prove GZ is a racist? IMO, no. Also, he did make other calls during that period, one involved a "W/M" which I presume stands for White Male (12/10/11 call).

JMO, OMO, and :moo:

Florida Native
05-17-2012, 08:35 PM
After reading the thread and the doc dump, here is my initial take.

The pot doesn't really matter that much except it goes to show that TM wasn't the perfect angel many in the press painted him to be. I don't think it makes him a bad person or anything but he wasn't what many in the media tried to make him out to be.

As for the pictures of GZ's injuries, I have lived in the world of EMT, Paramedic, and firefighters my adult life (being married to one) and they have all told me that it is common for people with the type of injuries GZ is claiming to be cleaned up on scene and the pics would be consistent with that.

saguaro
05-17-2012, 08:35 PM
Is global grind a news source now?

m00c0w
05-17-2012, 08:36 PM
Where did the first aid kit come from? If it was a first responders, why is it pictured in evidence? Weird.

Also, do we know if the THC was a trace amount or not? It's really much ado about nothing, especially when we don't know what GZ was on...

I assumed it was from the PD, and the plastic bags might have been provided at request by PD for first aid (to close off the chest wound). Since it's on the crime scene, it's documented.

Dr.Fessel
05-17-2012, 08:37 PM
Anybody see a grass stain? I don't...

http://static.globalgrind.com/sites/default/files/imagecache/gallery_image/images/2012_may/dsc_0076_20120517174317_640_480.jpg

http://globalgrind.com/news/evidence-trayvon-martin-case-george-zimmerman-sanford-florida-details?gpage=12&#gtop I don't see any stain or grass.

HiHater
05-17-2012, 08:38 PM
Is global grind a news source now?

I didn't present it as one. It's a picture, and nobody could reasonably dispute that the picture is true and accurate. Let's not get nitpicky...

AJ Noiter
05-17-2012, 08:38 PM
So it's a conspiracy and they got two totally different colored jackets with which to cover it up with? And the PD and ME are in on it?

I'm gonna go with "it was dark" and "poor lighting" on this one.

I'll go with "it could have been written by someone who has color vision deficiencies" - the jacket in the picture above looks grey and red to me.

Just my opinion.

gxm
05-17-2012, 08:39 PM
That's because they order a toxicology report on GZ, only on the victim! So we'll never know how much Adderall, or anything else, George may have been in his system that night.

....Too bad GZ didn't got to the ER for a CT scan that night, because the docs would have performed a drug test too. Based on my experience with brain injury I find his avoidance of the ER mighty suspicious for a man who supposedly had his head beaten into cement, even once, let alone repeatedly.

I had my head repeatedly slammed into a tile floor and I did not seek medical attention. Yes, I'd been told I'd be killed if I went to authorities, but I also did not know about the risks associated with head trauma. It should be noted that GZ went to his doctor the very next day.

saguaro
05-17-2012, 08:39 PM
I didn't present it as one. It's a picture, and nobody could reasonably dispute that the picture is true and accurate. Let's not get nitpicky...

I wondered because there have been a few things I had wanted to post from that website.

I didn't know Huffington post was a news source either until I asked.

Sorry it came off as being nitpicky.

HiHater
05-17-2012, 08:40 PM
So in a 7.5 year call history, the calls during a 4-1/2 month period prove GZ is a racist? IMO, no. Also, he did make other calls during that period, one involved a "W/M" which I presume stands for White Male (12/10/11 call).

JMO, OMO, and :moo:

That comes directly from the report. The officer who wrote it found it important to note, and I shared it here. That's all.

Dr.Fessel
05-17-2012, 08:40 PM
are there more pages of discovery then the 183 I just looked at? Where are all the pics?

katydid23
05-17-2012, 08:40 PM
Based on the released reports of the swabs done on the gun, I'd have to say that there was no struggle for the gun as Zimmerman claimed.

Swabs from gun~
DMS-21A ~ From grip of gun ~ George's present; Trayvon's excluded
DMS-21B ~ From trigger of gun ~ Not interpretable
DMS~21C ~ From slide of gun ~ At least one male ~ Can not determine if it was George or Trayvon.

Also, on a different note, Zimmerman told SFD that he was on Librax and Tamazepam. This is marked on the report that also lists Zimmerman's injuries.

MOO

How does it mean that there was no struggle over the gun?
There are prints on the slide, but they do not know whose, so couldn't Trayvon grabbed the top of the gun and tried to get a hold of it?

songline
05-17-2012, 08:41 PM
That's because they didn't order a toxicology report on GZ, only on the victim! So we'll never know how much Adderall, or anything else, George may have been in his system that night.

....Too bad GZ didn't got to the ER for a CT scan that night, because the docs would have performed a drug test too. Based on my experience with brain injury, I've found his avoidance of the ER mighty suspicious for a man who supposedly had his head beaten into cement, even once, let alone repeatedly.

Sadly 9 out of 10 head injuries do not land in the hospital and many do die.
I do not know the statistics. but it is common behavior.

Lovelymountains
05-17-2012, 08:41 PM
I'm a medical marijuana patient and I don't make poor choices, do impulsive or irrational things. I didn't when I was smoking illegally in 1971. It reacts differrently for everyone.

We have no evidence of TM doing any of these things, other than GZ's statement. I choose not to believe GZ's version of events.


As an American citizen it is very upsetting to see how a person can be railroaded by people like Mr.Crump who tells mistruths or IMO lies in the media.Anyone could end up in the same position as GZ and IMO that is scary as H3ll.Very possibly when all is said and done GZ is telling the truth but is still facing life in prison even though IMO he had every right under the law to save his own life.

As an American citizen I am very upset that an unstable person who has a violent history can get a permit to carry a gun and shoot someone who's appearance and race they don't like. Such a person should be in prison for a very long time.

HiHater
05-17-2012, 08:41 PM
The nose just looks so different in almost every pic...to me, anyway...

http://static.globalgrind.com/sites/default/files/imagecache/gallery_image/images/2012_may/dsc_0073_20120517174331_640_480.jpg

http://static.globalgrind.com/sites/default/files/imagecache/gallery_image/images/2012_may/dsc_0085_20120517174454_640_480.jpg

http://static.globalgrind.com/sites/default/files/imagecache/gallery_image/images/2012_may/dsc_0091_20120517180548_640_480_0.jpg

http://globalgrind.com/news/evidence-trayvon-martin-case-george-zimmerman-sanford-florida-details?gpage=14&#gtop

gxm
05-17-2012, 08:42 PM
Anybody see a grass stain? I don't...

http://static.globalgrind.com/sites/default/files/imagecache/gallery_image/images/2012_may/dsc_0076_20120517174317_640_480.jpg

http://globalgrind.com/news/evidence-trayvon-martin-case-george-zimmerman-sanford-florida-details?gpage=12&#gtop

I thought the grass stain was on his shirt, not his jacket? Does the doc dump say something different?

elementary
05-17-2012, 08:42 PM
I do know a few things, I was a teen in the 60's it can make some people sleepy and dragg themselves around,
which is not a natural walk.
Let me stop there because I have anything against smokers, but yes you can tell when someone is stoned.

It isn't terribly aggressive or threatening, is it?

I don't think you can make a blanket statement that you can tell that someone is stoned 100 per cent of the time. "Some" people, yes.

Ah, well, people will believe what they want to believe regardless. I'm waiting for separate threads because at this point (no offense to you) there are way more interesting things to explore, like GZ's meds, his injuries, his anger problems, the lack of injuries on Trayvon, the failure of SPD to test GZ for substances that night and who was that man who came up and was talking to GZ right after the shooting?

Dr.Fessel
05-17-2012, 08:42 PM
From the front and back it looks like Zimmerman fell into some bushes.

rossva
05-17-2012, 08:42 PM
1) He had thc in his system.
2) Having thc in your system is illegal in Florida.
3) Therefore, he broke the law.

I'll leave out the word "predisposed". We KNOW he broke the law, at least once.



Really? You know this because?????

HiHater
05-17-2012, 08:43 PM
I wondered because there have been a few things I had wanted to post from that website.

I didn't know Huffington post was a news source either until I asked.

Sorry it came off as being nitpicky.

I apologize for that. I misinterpreted what you were saying or getting at.

JBean
05-17-2012, 08:43 PM
Don't forget to break out into specific topics- this thread won't be open forever and we will not be able to bump discussion in the future-unless we break it out.
thanks.

Dr.Fessel
05-17-2012, 08:43 PM
The nose just looks so different in almost every pic...to me, anyway...

http://static.globalgrind.com/sites/default/files/imagecache/gallery_image/images/2012_may/dsc_0073_20120517174331_640_480.jpg

http://static.globalgrind.com/sites/default/files/imagecache/gallery_image/images/2012_may/dsc_0085_20120517174454_640_480.jpg

http://static.globalgrind.com/sites/default/files/imagecache/gallery_image/images/2012_may/dsc_0091_20120517180548_640_480_0.jpg

http://globalgrind.com/news/evidence-trayvon-martin-case-george-zimmerman-sanford-florida-details?gpage=14&#gtop

Doesn't look like a broken nose to me but some cops swore it did when those pics were taken.