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View Full Version : The influence of MSM coverage regarding the Trayvon Martin case


beach
05-18-2012, 08:35 PM
I see this topic peppered through almost every thread here. :)


Responsible? Irresponsible?

How has it influenced the public perception?

What are your views?


Please discuss civilly.

K_Z
05-18-2012, 08:41 PM
CBS, IMO, made a major gaffe today when they published that TM had bruises and blood on his head, based on someone's interpretation of the handwriting on the AR diagrams. They really need to print a retraction!

http://miami.cbslocal.com/2012/05/18/zimmerman-atty-dont-judge-by-piecemeal-evidence/

"Diagrams also note Martin was hurt in the fight: blood on his head, a bruise around his eye, scarring on both hands."
~~~~~

The abbrieviations/ handwriting actually says "Black short" near the hair, and "brown" near the eyes. Both of these are repeated in the narrative. The diagram is a worksheet used during the autopsy itself-- weights and fluids are listed there in shorthand, etc.

I REALLY wonder who interpreted this for CBS as "blood" and "bruise"? That is more than an error or embarrassing-- it is potentially inflammatory, and misleading. That should have been VERY easily confirmed. I really hope CBS prints a retraction. I notice the reporter, or whomever, didn't comment on any other abbrieviations or shorthand on the diagrams. That makes me think "someone" was either jumping to conclusions, or deliberately misleading/ inflaming the public.

Let's hear the apology on this one!

Dr.Fessel
05-18-2012, 09:02 PM
Here is one of the first nonsense articles I saw in the case. They said John saw the whole fight.

The article was deleted or the addy was changed. Here it is scribbed.

http://www.scribd.com/doc/87068236/Witness-Martin-Attacked-Zimmerman

beach
05-18-2012, 09:18 PM
I have a feeling this thread is gonna be quite enlightening. I kinda doubt the media will love it, but that is okay. They need to be held responsible.

WTH ever happened to caring more about getting it accurate than grabbing a scoop? Very disheartening. <sigh>

Maxim
05-18-2012, 09:57 PM
The truth isn't important, anymore.

First I heard was the NBC fiasco with the 911 call. Someone at NBC selectively edited the dispatcher and included GZ saying that TM was black. NBC admitted the tape was edited. (NBC deleted the part when the dispatcher asked the race.) Strange how one of the most important parts was deleted. I heard they apologized--probably at 4 in the morning after a public service announcement.

I watched the ABC tape of GZ arriving at the Police Station. You couldn't see much of anything important. Later, ABC supposedly took a layer of filtering(?) off to see more clearly.

I think it was a CNN commentator who remarked about the co*n word on the 911 tape. Another commentator thought GZ was saying "F'n cold." The FBI couldn't figure out the word after "F'n."

MSM is demonstrating what a cluster-of-idiots is.

stmarysmead
05-19-2012, 09:47 AM
It is chilling when the Media chooses sides and clings on for dear life. As a veteran of another high profile Media Hoax, I can explain some of their "tricks."

Usually the side they choose is linked immediately to an historical metanarrative..often one that has great emotional resonance to a group of people. I am NOT disparaging these metanarratives or the historical reasons they exist. I'm pointing out that making an accusation of a crime FIT into old grievances, hurts and wrongs...helps the media begin its process of shaping a case and pre-convicting one side. To that end, the Duke hoax was immediately linked to the Metanarrative of White Men of Privilege raping poor Black women. This was referenced constantly. In this case, it is White Men killing innocent Blacks because of Profiling.

So now we bring all the anger at past profiling and racial disparity and we dump it on this Watch Captain in Florida. He can subsequently do no right in the media and the "victim" becomes immediately "perfect."

To that end, we need pictures. Let's take an old picture of a mean looking GZ and use that. OOPS cannot use any recent pictures of TM where he is pretending that Gang banger look...because the public will not embrace him if we do. So the media finds a picture of him at 13 years old...a CHILD'S picture...no stubble, no gold teeth...a child's picture. And a beautiful child who...yes, does look like a popular President.

So they use that old picture for weeks. This is NOT the face GZ saw that night...it's a child's face. But the Media is about building outrage. Profiling THIS innocent child? How ridiculous, readers fume. (including ME, at first.)

Now we constantly reference the Skittles....a child's treat. Later we hear this 17 year old has an illegal drug in his system but that is WELL after the image of a 13 year old child with Skittles is seared in the publics brain.

The media Image Making and linking to the emotional Metanarrative sets the stage.

Now the mechanics. Any unflattering info about TM must immediately be downplayed or ignored...the changing of schools in mid-year, the three suspensions, the Facebook page, how LONG till they are mentioned and in what context? Where is info placed...beneath a headline ravaging GZ...who has every possible grudge holder interviewed for dirt and reported with zeal. GZ is demonized...by cutting the 911 tape and running it cut many times...by denying his injuries...by finding an "expert" that identifies the screams as TM's...when we are never told that TM's FATHER SAID they were NOT his sons Screams.

Headlines are a tool as well. Today ABC has a headline :

WITNESS BELIEVES GM INTENDED TM TO DIE!!!!

http://abcnews.go.com/US/trayvon-martin-witness-believes-intended-kid-die/t/story?id=16380864

Read the article and you also see at the end that the WITNESS at the scene supports GZ's story AND has TM beating him with Martial Arts Style...but the Media LIKED this quote for a headline...to smear GZ some more...made by a woman who apparently thinks that GZ KNEW he was going to be beaten to a inch of his life and therefore premediated the whole deal. She suggests he could have shot a peson straddling him and beating him...in the LEG! Could someone explain exactly HOW to implement that? Maybe diagram the mechanics when someone is straddling you? That is so ridiculous and DUMB that it is appalling that this is considered relevant at all. That "witness" is giving a NON FACTUAL OPINION that no one can PROVE...but it is the Big Headine. Why? Because the media knows many folks just SCAN headlines and do not actually read. So this headline feeds anger...makes it harder for GZ to get a fair trial. And many will never READ the full context of this Witness' statement at all. Mission of fomenting more hate...ACCOMPLISHED!

Which is the whole idea...because the Media has chosen "a side" before they know the evidence. In fact they are CREATING False evidence to inflame potential jurors and force weak political DAs to file weak cases the Law does not support. Nifong. Corey. Placating public opinion first and foremost. Public opinion fueled by a rabid biased press...inciting for Mob justice. Based on their often later proven FALSE evidence. You cannot unring a Bell.

And if Race is part of the case...The Media is glad to use that to infuriate as well. Subsequently, we have the media reporting on racial slurs that later , much later...they admit were never spoken. That is RECKLESS. Knowing the implications, the hurt, THAT CHARGE should never be made unless it is 100 SOLID. But the Media is like excited gossipy Neighbors...OMG...OMG ...say anything then check it later!!


They initally call GZ "White"....to fit the Metanarrative of "Whites Killing Blacks Because of Profiling"....then when GZ's heritage is unfortunately MIXED...they invent the term "White Hispanic." Then, horrors, he has Black Heritage, Black friends, has mentored Black children. But this is DOWNPLAYED. Instead, the Congressional Black Caucus is interviewed for quotes about TM being "shot like a dog." etc. This is all part of making this case so RACIAL...that defending GZ in any manner makes one a RACIST. This is a useful "Shut-UP" tool that the media uses. If you don't see Crystal Mangum as Sister Survivor raped by three White Men of Privilege JUST BECAUSE she has no LAX DNA and every orifice is chock full of OTHER male DNA...then you are a RACIST! Or you hate women and love rape!

This is terribly unfair. It is possible to respect folks of all races but base one's opinons on FACT not emotion or allegiance. A Black friend who says GZ is not a racist should be allowed to speak and shown the same respect by the media...as any of us would wish. It takes bravery.

If you read about GZ's injuries, read the Law and say, as Harvard Professor Dershowitz says...there should never have been charges...the editorials and media spin is that you are racist, or a gun-nut. How do they do this....by quoting in articles "experts" who analyze people who do not agree with them...as possessing these evil qualities. How many of these erroneous emotional "quotes" are ever retracted or corrected by the Media in later articles? Have you seen articles about the exaggerations made by these Congresspeople about this case? Why not? Does the Media have no responsibility to the truth?

Once the Media sets the hysteria going...witness statements change. The young boy who saw G on top is "corrected" by his Mother. Dad "corrects" whose voice he heard screaming. Because it becomes scary to oppose the Media in full outrage. Then they report death threats by the Black Panthers and our Government tolerates those threats. Gee, any witness, any reader...now gets the point to shut up or go with the Media Mob.

Of couse, we have the Entertainment Ghouls...who exploit these tragedies for ratings...another "media." How often they show their ignorance of the evidence is STUNNING. But they feel NO OBLIGATION to be INFORMED. They exist to pander emotion...push hatred...convict in the public's mind before trial. It is a barbaric profession. Lawyers who go on TV and push slander, lies and misinformation for RATINGS and personal enrichment. And they are quoted as if they are "serious media." Remember NG's wailing about how the Duke accusers fingernails were brutally ripped off?

Lee press on nails. She did her nails in the bathroom...the OTHER stripper testified to that.

Now we have an array of disgruntled old girlfriends, Middle Easterner work associates...blah, blah. The Media takes their every word as GOSPEL...they are the embodiments of perfect truth. No one who smears GZ could ever be lying, have an agenda or a grudge. After all, it's only those who SUPPORT GZ who MUST be liars, racists, or all of the above.

We live in an age where Media credibility is near ZERO...but we love to believe them when their VENDETTAS fit our opinions.

jjenny
05-19-2012, 09:58 AM
CBS, IMO, made a major gaffe today when they published that TM had bruises and blood on his head, based on someone's interpretation of the handwriting on the AR diagrams. They really need to print a retraction!

http://miami.cbslocal.com/2012/05/18/zimmerman-atty-dont-judge-by-piecemeal-evidence/

"Diagrams also note Martin was hurt in the fight: blood on his head, a bruise around his eye, scarring on both hands."
~~~~~

The abbrieviations/ handwriting actually says "Black short" near the hair, and "brown" near the eyes. Both of these are repeated in the narrative. The diagram is a worksheet used during the autopsy itself-- weights and fluids are listed there in shorthand, etc.

I REALLY wonder who interpreted this for CBS as "blood" and "bruise"? That is more than an error or embarrassing-- it is potentially inflammatory, and misleading. That should have been VERY easily confirmed. I really hope CBS prints a retraction. I notice the reporter, or whomever, didn't comment on any other abbrieviations or shorthand on the diagrams. That makes me think "someone" was either jumping to conclusions, or deliberately misleading/ inflaming the public.

Let's hear the apology on this one!

I still don't see any retractions. If the author didn't understand the handwriting on the diagram, is it to much to ask that the author read the actual type written report that lists as injuries only the bullet wound and abrasion to left fourth finger?
That article also claims the bullet had "horizontal" trajectory whereas autopsy says it was directly from front to back.

Maxim
05-19-2012, 11:58 AM
It is chilling when the Media chooses sides and clings on for dear life. As a veteran of another high profile Media Hoax, I can explain some of their "tricks."

Usually the side they choose is linked immediately to an historical metanarrative..often one that has great emotional resonance to a group of people. I am NOT disparaging these metanarratives or the historical reasons they exist. I'm pointing out that making an accusation of a crime FIT into old grievances, hurts and wrongs...helps the media begin its process of shaping a case and pre-convicting one side. To that end, the Duke hoax was immediately linked to the Metanarrative of White Men of Privilege raping poor Black women. This was referenced constantly. In this case, it is White Men killing innocent Blacks because of Profiling.

So now we bring all the anger at past profiling and racial disparity and we dump it on this Watch Captain in Florida. He can subsequently do no right in the media and the "victim" becomes immediately "perfect."

To that end, we need pictures. Let's take an old picture of a mean looking GZ and use that. OOPS cannot use any recent pictures of TM where he is pretending that Gang banger look...because the public will not embrace him if we do. So the media finds a picture of him at 13 years old...a CHILD'S picture...no stubble, no gold teeth...a child's picture. And a beautiful child who...yes, does look like a popular President.

So they use that old picture for weeks. This is NOT the face GZ saw that night...it's a child's face. But the Media is about building outrage. Profiling THIS innocent child? How ridiculous, readers fume. (including ME, at first.)

Now we constantly reference the Skittles....a child's treat. Later we hear this 17 year old has an illegal drug in his system but that is WELL after the image of a 13 year old child with Skittles is seared in the publics brain.

The media Image Making and linking to the emotional Metanarrative sets the stage.

Now the mechanics. Any unflattering info about TM must immediately be downplayed or ignored...the changing of schools in mid-year, the three suspensions, the Facebook page, how LONG till they are mentioned and in what context? Where is info placed...beneath a headline ravaging GZ...who has every possible grudge holder interviewed for dirt and reported with zeal. GZ is demonized...by cutting the 911 tape and running it cut many times...by denying his injuries...by finding an "expert" that identifies the screams as TM's...when we are never told that TM's FATHER SAID they were NOT his sons Screams.

Headlines are a tool as well. Today ABC has a headline :

WITNESS BELIEVES GM INTENDED TM TO DIE!!!!

http://abcnews.go.com/US/trayvon-martin-witness-believes-intended-kid-die/t/story?id=16380864

Read the article and you also see at the end that the WITNESS at the scene supports GZ's story AND has TM beating him with Martial Arts Style...but the Media LIKED this quote for a headline...to smear GZ some more...made by a woman who apparently thinks that GZ KNEW he was going to be beaten to a inch of his life and therefore premediated the whole deal. She suggests he could have shot a peson straddling him and beating him...in the LEG! Could someone explain exactly HOW to implement that? Maybe diagram the mechanics when someone is straddling you? That is so ridiculous and DUMB that it is appalling that this is considered relevant at all. That "witness" is giving a NON FACTUAL OPINION that no one can PROVE...but it is the Big Headine. Why? Because the media knows many folks just SCAN headlines and do not actually read. So this headline feeds anger...makes it harder for GZ to get a fair trial. And many will never READ the full context of this Witness' statement at all. Mission of fomenting more hate...ACCOMPLISHED!

Which is the whole idea...because the Media has chosen "a side" before they know the evidence. In fact they are CREATING False evidence to inflame potential jurors and force weak political DAs to file weak cases the Law does not support. Nifong. Corey. Placating public opinion first and foremost. Public opinion fueled by a rabid biased press...inciting for Mob justice. Based on their often later proven FALSE evidence. You cannot unring a Bell.

And if Race is part of the case...The Media is glad to use that to infuriate as well. Subsequently, we have the media reporting on racial slurs that later , much later...they admit were never spoken. That is RECKLESS. Knowing the implications, the hurt, THAT CHARGE should never be made unless it is 100 SOLID. But the Media is like excited gossipy Neighbors...OMG...OMG ...say anything then check it later!!


They initally call GZ "White"....to fit the Metanarrative of "Whites Killing Blacks Because of Profiling"....then when GZ's heritage is unfortunately MIXED...they invent the term "White Hispanic." Then, horrors, he has Black Heritage, Black friends, has mentored Black children. But this is DOWNPLAYED. Instead, the Congressional Black Caucus is interviewed for quotes about TM being "shot like a dog." etc. This is all part of making this case so RACIAL...that defending GZ in any manner makes one a RACIST. This is a useful "Shut-UP" tool that the media uses. If you don't see Crystal Mangum as Sister Survivor raped by three White Men of Privilege JUST BECAUSE she has no LAX DNA and every orifice is chock full of OTHER male DNA...then you are a RACIST! Or you hate women and love rape!

This is terribly unfair. It is possible to respect folks of all races but base one's opinons on FACT not emotion or allegiance. A Black friend who says GZ is not a racist should be allowed to speak and shown the same respect by the media...as any of us would wish. It takes bravery.

If you read about GZ's injuries, read the Law and say, as Harvard Professor Dershowitz says...there should never have been charges...the editorials and media spin is that you are racist, or a gun-nut. How do they do this....by quoting in articles "experts" who analyze people who do not agree with them...as possessing these evil qualities. How many of these erroneous emotional "quotes" are ever retracted or corrected by the Media in later articles? Have you seen articles about the exaggerations made by these Congresspeople about this case? Why not? Does the Media have no responsibility to the truth?

Once the Media sets the hysteria going...witness statements change. The young boy who saw G on top is "corrected" by his Mother. Dad "corrects" whose voice he heard screaming. Because it becomes scary to oppose the Media in full outrage. Then they report death threats by the Black Panthers and our Government tolerates those threats. Gee, any witness, any reader...now gets the point to shut up or go with the Media Mob.

Of couse, we have the Entertainment Ghouls...who exploit these tragedies for ratings...another "media." How often they show their ignorance of the evidence is STUNNING. But they feel NO OBLIGATION to be INFORMED. They exist to pander emotion...push hatred...convict in the public's mind before trial. It is a barbaric profession. Lawyers who go on TV and push slander, lies and misinformation for RATINGS and personal enrichment. And they are quoted as if they are "serious media." Remember NG's wailing about how the Duke accusers fingernails were brutally ripped off?

Lee press on nails. She did her nails in the bathroom...the OTHER stripper testified to that.

Now we have an array of disgruntled old girlfriends, Middle Easterner work associates...blah, blah. The Media takes their every word as GOSPEL...they are the embodiments of perfect truth. No one who smears GZ could ever be lying, have an agenda or a grudge. After all, it's only those who SUPPORT GZ who MUST be liars, racists, or all of the above.

We live in an age where Media credibility is near ZERO...but we love to believe them when their VENDETTAS fit our opinions.

An Excellent Post! (Agatha?)

There is an agenda--sensationalism = viewers = money; and, there is racial bias.

Where is the media on this?

http://www.nationalreview.com/articles/299918/censored-race-war-thomas-sowell#

They are absent.

SwampMama
05-19-2012, 01:07 PM
It is chilling when the Media chooses sides and clings on for dear life. As a veteran of another high profile Media Hoax, I can explain some of their "tricks."

Usually the side they choose is linked immediately to an historical metanarrative..often one that has great emotional resonance to a group of people. I am NOT disparaging these metanarratives or the historical reasons they exist. I'm pointing out that making an accusation of a crime FIT into old grievances, hurts and wrongs...helps the media begin its process of shaping a case and pre-convicting one side. To that end, the Duke hoax was immediately linked to the Metanarrative of White Men of Privilege raping poor Black women. This was referenced constantly. In this case, it is White Men killing innocent Blacks because of Profiling.

So now we bring all the anger at past profiling and racial disparity and we dump it on this Watch Captain in Florida. He can subsequently do no right in the media and the "victim" becomes immediately "perfect."

To that end, we need pictures. Let's take an old picture of a mean looking GZ and use that. OOPS cannot use any recent pictures of TM where he is pretending that Gang banger look...because the public will not embrace him if we do. So the media finds a picture of him at 13 years old...a CHILD'S picture...no stubble, no gold teeth...a child's picture. And a beautiful child who...yes, does look like a popular President.

So they use that old picture for weeks. This is NOT the face GZ saw that night...it's a child's face. But the Media is about building outrage. Profiling THIS innocent child? How ridiculous, readers fume. (including ME, at first.)

Now we constantly reference the Skittles....a child's treat. Later we hear this 17 year old has an illegal drug in his system but that is WELL after the image of a 13 year old child with Skittles is seared in the publics brain.

The media Image Making and linking to the emotional Metanarrative sets the stage.

Now the mechanics. Any unflattering info about TM must immediately be downplayed or ignored...the changing of schools in mid-year, the three suspensions, the Facebook page, how LONG till they are mentioned and in what context? Where is info placed...beneath a headline ravaging GZ...who has every possible grudge holder interviewed for dirt and reported with zeal. GZ is demonized...by cutting the 911 tape and running it cut many times...by denying his injuries...by finding an "expert" that identifies the screams as TM's...when we are never told that TM's FATHER SAID they were NOT his sons Screams.

Headlines are a tool as well. Today ABC has a headline :

WITNESS BELIEVES GM INTENDED TM TO DIE!!!!

http://abcnews.go.com/US/trayvon-martin-witness-believes-intended-kid-die/t/story?id=16380864

Read the article and you also see at the end that the WITNESS at the scene supports GZ's story AND has TM beating him with Martial Arts Style...but the Media LIKED this quote for a headline...to smear GZ some more...made by a woman who apparently thinks that GZ KNEW he was going to be beaten to a inch of his life and therefore premediated the whole deal. She suggests he could have shot a peson straddling him and beating him...in the LEG! Could someone explain exactly HOW to implement that? Maybe diagram the mechanics when someone is straddling you? That is so ridiculous and DUMB that it is appalling that this is considered relevant at all. That "witness" is giving a NON FACTUAL OPINION that no one can PROVE...but it is the Big Headine. Why? Because the media knows many folks just SCAN headlines and do not actually read. So this headline feeds anger...makes it harder for GZ to get a fair trial. And many will never READ the full context of this Witness' statement at all. Mission of fomenting more hate...ACCOMPLISHED!

Which is the whole idea...because the Media has chosen "a side" before they know the evidence. In fact they are CREATING False evidence to inflame potential jurors and force weak political DAs to file weak cases the Law does not support. Nifong. Corey. Placating public opinion first and foremost. Public opinion fueled by a rabid biased press...inciting for Mob justice. Based on their often later proven FALSE evidence. You cannot unring a Bell.

And if Race is part of the case...The Media is glad to use that to infuriate as well. Subsequently, we have the media reporting on racial slurs that later , much later...they admit were never spoken. That is RECKLESS. Knowing the implications, the hurt, THAT CHARGE should never be made unless it is 100 SOLID. But the Media is like excited gossipy Neighbors...OMG...OMG ...say anything then check it later!!


They initally call GZ "White"....to fit the Metanarrative of "Whites Killing Blacks Because of Profiling"....then when GZ's heritage is unfortunately MIXED...they invent the term "White Hispanic." Then, horrors, he has Black Heritage, Black friends, has mentored Black children. But this is DOWNPLAYED. Instead, the Congressional Black Caucus is interviewed for quotes about TM being "shot like a dog." etc. This is all part of making this case so RACIAL...that defending GZ in any manner makes one a RACIST. This is a useful "Shut-UP" tool that the media uses. If you don't see Crystal Mangum as Sister Survivor raped by three White Men of Privilege JUST BECAUSE she has no LAX DNA and every orifice is chock full of OTHER male DNA...then you are a RACIST! Or you hate women and love rape!

This is terribly unfair. It is possible to respect folks of all races but base one's opinons on FACT not emotion or allegiance. A Black friend who says GZ is not a racist should be allowed to speak and shown the same respect by the media...as any of us would wish. It takes bravery.

If you read about GZ's injuries, read the Law and say, as Harvard Professor Dershowitz says...there should never have been charges...the editorials and media spin is that you are racist, or a gun-nut. How do they do this....by quoting in articles "experts" who analyze people who do not agree with them...as possessing these evil qualities. How many of these erroneous emotional "quotes" are ever retracted or corrected by the Media in later articles? Have you seen articles about the exaggerations made by these Congresspeople about this case? Why not? Does the Media have no responsibility to the truth?

Once the Media sets the hysteria going...witness statements change. The young boy who saw G on top is "corrected" by his Mother. Dad "corrects" whose voice he heard screaming. Because it becomes scary to oppose the Media in full outrage. Then they report death threats by the Black Panthers and our Government tolerates those threats. Gee, any witness, any reader...now gets the point to shut up or go with the Media Mob.

Of couse, we have the Entertainment Ghouls...who exploit these tragedies for ratings...another "media." How often they show their ignorance of the evidence is STUNNING. But they feel NO OBLIGATION to be INFORMED. They exist to pander emotion...push hatred...convict in the public's mind before trial. It is a barbaric profession. Lawyers who go on TV and push slander, lies and misinformation for RATINGS and personal enrichment. And they are quoted as if they are "serious media." Remember NG's wailing about how the Duke accusers fingernails were brutally ripped off?

Lee press on nails. She did her nails in the bathroom...the OTHER stripper testified to that.

Now we have an array of disgruntled old girlfriends, Middle Easterner work associates...blah, blah. The Media takes their every word as GOSPEL...they are the embodiments of perfect truth. No one who smears GZ could ever be lying, have an agenda or a grudge. After all, it's only those who SUPPORT GZ who MUST be liars, racists, or all of the above.

We live in an age where Media credibility is near ZERO...but we love to believe them when their VENDETTAS fit our opinions.

A simple thank you was not enough. This post needs to be printed in all MSM. I am so tired of the BS in this case with overly zealous reporters whipping people into a frenzy with inaccurate or exaggerated reporting. I find it disgusting and it completely turns me off of a case when they do that.

jjenny
05-19-2012, 03:01 PM
Here is an example of reporting from NYT. Now I listened to the actual interview where she claims she heard "get off." That supposed "get off" she heard, was after the head set already fell off. By her own admission she says she could only hear " a little bit." And that is after the interviewer asks her something to the effect if the last thing she heard was a noise (when head set fell off) and she responds with a "yea." Then he keeps on probing and she says she could still hear a "little bit" after head set fell off.

So how did Mr. Martin's voice peaked with words like "get off, get off?"

"A girl who talked on the phone with Trayvon Martin on the night of Feb. 26 has told a state prosecutor that she heard rising fear in Mr. Martin’s voice that peaked with words like “get off, get off,” right before she lost contact with him and he was shot to death."

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/05/19/us/trayvon-martins-friend-tells-what-she-heard-on-phone.html?_r=1

tehcloser
05-19-2012, 03:06 PM
He was scared so he got louder.......

stmarysmead
05-19-2012, 03:07 PM
Here is an example of reporting from NYT. Now I listened to the actual interview where she claims she heard "get off." That supposed "get off" she heard, was after the head set already fell off. By her own admission she says she could only hear " a little bit." And that is after the interviewer asks her something to the effect if the last thing she heard was a noise (when head set fell off) and she responds with a "yea." Then he keeps on probing and she says she could still hear a "little bit" after head set fell off.

So how did Mr. Martin's voice peaked with words like "get off, get off?"

"A girl who talked on the phone with Trayvon Martin on the night of Feb. 26 has told a state prosecutor that she heard rising fear in Mr. Martin’s voice that peaked with words like “get off, get off,” right before she lost contact with him and he was shot to death."

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/05/19/us/trayvon-martins-friend-tells-what-she-heard-on-phone.html?_r=1

Excellent example. We could make this thread the longest in history because the Media is shameless.

jjenny
05-19-2012, 03:08 PM
He was scared so he got louder.......

You should listen to the actual interview.
Again, it was after head set fell off, and she says she could only hear a "little bit."
And that after probing by interviewer.
And the lawyer is previously quoted last thing she heard was someone hitting the phone, without mentioning anything about "get off."

tehcloser
05-19-2012, 03:25 PM
You should listen to the actual interview.Again, it was after head set fell off, and she says she could only hear a "little bit."
And that after probing by interviewer.
And the lawyer is previously quoted last thing she heard was someone hitting the phone, without mentioning anything about "get off."

bbm

I did. I heard a nervous kid doing her best to answer.

jjenny
05-19-2012, 03:29 PM
bbm

I did. I heard a nervous kid doing her best to answer.

And was there anything about Trayvon's voice peaking with "get off" as claimed by NYT? It sounds to me that she could barely hear anything after the head set fell off. And even the lawyer (Mr. Crump) is quoted saying last thing the g/f heard was something hitting the phone. Now all of the sudden "get off" was loud and clear and in fact Trayvon's voice peaked on "get off" if one is to read NYT article?

Dr.Fessel
05-19-2012, 03:47 PM
The disgusting illegal leaking of school records by a criminal then the media does a story on it without showing the report.

In October, a school police investigator said he saw Trayvon on the school surveillance camera in an unauthorized area “hiding and being suspicious.” Then he said he saw Trayvon mark up a door with “W.T.F” — an acronym for “what the f---.” The officer said he found Trayvon the next day and went through his book bag in search of the graffiti marker.

Read more here: http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/03/26/2714778/thousands-expected-at-trayvon.html#storylink=cpy

jjenny
05-19-2012, 04:03 PM
And lets not forget a reporter who claimed Trayvon made his own 911 call.

stmarysmead
05-19-2012, 04:27 PM
And how could NBC allow a producer to modify the 911 tape in the most damning way...and never catch it themselves? You mean they don't vet these things several times...even through their legal department before airing?

jjenny
05-19-2012, 04:38 PM
The only thing that surprises me about nbc story is that some people actually got punished for it.

sleonardelli
05-19-2012, 04:57 PM
Since we've moved into the 24 hour news cycle, when has the media NOT sensationalized in compelling reports. They're competing with one another. I think it's time to return to the Fairness Doctrine (http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,1880786,00.html).

The act is rooted in the media world of 1949, when lawmakers became concerned that by virtue of their near-stranglehold on nationwide TV broadcasting, the three main television networks — NBC, ABC and CBS — could misuse their broadcast licenses to set a biased public agenda. The Fairness Doctrine, which mandated that broadcast networks devote time to contrasting views on issues of public importance, was meant to level the playing field. Congress backed the policy in 1954, and by the 1970s the FCC called the doctrine the "single most important requirement of operation in the public interest — the sine qua non for grant of a renewal of license."
IMO, the Fairness Doctrine shouldn't just include politics but ALL news reporting.

Phoenixfla
05-19-2012, 05:06 PM
A simple thank you was not enough. This post needs to be printed in all MSM. I am so tired of the BS in this case with overly zealous reporters whipping people into a frenzy with inaccurate or exaggerated reporting. I find it disgusting and it completely turns me off of a case when they do that.

I agree. Stmarysmead, that was a remarkable post. Very well thought out. Too bad there isn't a way to get THAT in the big papers. Maybe we can start a fund and put it in as an ad.

Once again great post.

vlpate
05-19-2012, 08:51 PM
It is chilling when the Media chooses sides and clings on for dear life. As a veteran of another high profile Media Hoax, I can explain some of their "tricks."

Usually the side they choose is linked immediately to an historical metanarrative..often one that has great emotional resonance to a group of people. I am NOT disparaging these metanarratives or the historical reasons they exist. I'm pointing out that making an accusation of a crime FIT into old grievances, hurts and wrongs...helps the media begin its process of shaping a case and pre-convicting one side. To that end, the Duke hoax was immediately linked to the Metanarrative of White Men of Privilege raping poor Black women. This was referenced constantly. In this case, it is White Men killing innocent Blacks because of Profiling.

So now we bring all the anger at past profiling and racial disparity and we dump it on this Watch Captain in Florida. He can subsequently do no right in the media and the "victim" becomes immediately "perfect."

To that end, we need pictures. Let's take an old picture of a mean looking GZ and use that. OOPS cannot use any recent pictures of TM where he is pretending that Gang banger look...because the public will not embrace him if we do. So the media finds a picture of him at 13 years old...a CHILD'S picture...no stubble, no gold teeth...a child's picture. And a beautiful child who...yes, does look like a popular President.

So they use that old picture for weeks. This is NOT the face GZ saw that night...it's a child's face. But the Media is about building outrage. Profiling THIS innocent child? How ridiculous, readers fume. (including ME, at first.)

Now we constantly reference the Skittles....a child's treat. Later we hear this 17 year old has an illegal drug in his system but that is WELL after the image of a 13 year old child with Skittles is seared in the publics brain.

The media Image Making and linking to the emotional Metanarrative sets the stage.

Now the mechanics. Any unflattering info about TM must immediately be downplayed or ignored...the changing of schools in mid-year, the three suspensions, the Facebook page, how LONG till they are mentioned and in what context? Where is info placed...beneath a headline ravaging GZ...who has every possible grudge holder interviewed for dirt and reported with zeal. GZ is demonized...by cutting the 911 tape and running it cut many times...by denying his injuries...by finding an "expert" that identifies the screams as TM's...when we are never told that TM's FATHER SAID they were NOT his sons Screams.

Headlines are a tool as well. Today ABC has a headline :

WITNESS BELIEVES GZ INTENDED TM TO DIE!!!!

http://abcnews.go.com/US/trayvon-martin-witness-believes-intended-kid-die/t/story?id=16380864

Read the article and you also see at the end that the WITNESS at the scene supports GZ's story AND has TM beating him with Martial Arts Style...but the Media LIKED this quote for a headline...to smear GZ some more...made by a woman who apparently thinks that GZ KNEW he was going to be beaten to a inch of his life and therefore premediated the whole deal. She suggests he could have shot a peson straddling him and beating him...in the LEG! Could someone explain exactly HOW to implement that? Maybe diagram the mechanics when someone is straddling you? That is so ridiculous and DUMB that it is appalling that this is considered relevant at all. That "witness" is giving a NON FACTUAL OPINION that no one can PROVE...but it is the Big Headine. Why? Because the media knows many folks just SCAN headlines and do not actually read. So this headline feeds anger...makes it harder for GZ to get a fair trial. And many will never READ the full context of this Witness' statement at all. Mission of fomenting more hate...ACCOMPLISHED!

Which is the whole idea...because the Media has chosen "a side" before they know the evidence. In fact they are CREATING False evidence to inflame potential jurors and force weak political DAs to file weak cases the Law does not support. Nifong. Corey. Placating public opinion first and foremost. Public opinion fueled by a rabid biased press...inciting for Mob justice. Based on their often later proven FALSE evidence. You cannot unring a Bell.

And if Race is part of the case...The Media is glad to use that to infuriate as well. Subsequently, we have the media reporting on racial slurs that later , much later...they admit were never spoken. That is RECKLESS. Knowing the implications, the hurt, THAT CHARGE should never be made unless it is 100 SOLID. But the Media is like excited gossipy Neighbors...OMG...OMG ...say anything then check it later!!


They initally call GZ "White"....to fit the Metanarrative of "Whites Killing Blacks Because of Profiling"....then when GZ's heritage is unfortunately MIXED...they invent the term "White Hispanic." Then, horrors, he has Black Heritage, Black friends, has mentored Black children. But this is DOWNPLAYED. Instead, the Congressional Black Caucus is interviewed for quotes about TM being "shot like a dog." etc. This is all part of making this case so RACIAL...that defending GZ in any manner makes one a RACIST. This is a useful "Shut-UP" tool that the media uses. If you don't see Crystal Mangum as Sister Survivor raped by three White Men of Privilege JUST BECAUSE she has no LAX DNA and every orifice is chock full of OTHER male DNA...then you are a RACIST! Or you hate women and love rape!

This is terribly unfair. It is possible to respect folks of all races but base one's opinons on FACT not emotion or allegiance. A Black friend who says GZ is not a racist should be allowed to speak and shown the same respect by the media...as any of us would wish. It takes bravery.

If you read about GZ's injuries, read the Law and say, as Harvard Professor Dershowitz says...there should never have been charges...the editorials and media spin is that you are racist, or a gun-nut. How do they do this....by quoting in articles "experts" who analyze people who do not agree with them...as possessing these evil qualities. How many of these erroneous emotional "quotes" are ever retracted or corrected by the Media in later articles? Have you seen articles about the exaggerations made by these Congresspeople about this case? Why not? Does the Media have no responsibility to the truth?

Once the Media sets the hysteria going...witness statements change. The young boy who saw G on top is "corrected" by his Mother. Dad "corrects" whose voice he heard screaming. Because it becomes scary to oppose the Media in full outrage. Then they report death threats by the Black Panthers and our Government tolerates those threats. Gee, any witness, any reader...now gets the point to shut up or go with the Media Mob.

Of couse, we have the Entertainment Ghouls...who exploit these tragedies for ratings...another "media." How often they show their ignorance of the evidence is STUNNING. But they feel NO OBLIGATION to be INFORMED. They exist to pander emotion...push hatred...convict in the public's mind before trial. It is a barbaric profession. Lawyers who go on TV and push slander, lies and misinformation for RATINGS and personal enrichment. And they are quoted as if they are "serious media." Remember NG's wailing about how the Duke accusers fingernails were brutally ripped off?

Lee press on nails. She did her nails in the bathroom...the OTHER stripper testified to that.

Now we have an array of disgruntled old girlfriends, Middle Easterner work associates...blah, blah. The Media takes their every word as GOSPEL...they are the embodiments of perfect truth. No one who smears GZ could ever be lying, have an agenda or a grudge. After all, it's only those who SUPPORT GZ who MUST be liars, racists, or all of the above.

We live in an age where Media credibility is near ZERO...but we love to believe them when their VENDETTAS fit our opinions.

Excellent post.

Bold emphasis mine. :)

vlpate
05-19-2012, 10:20 PM
I agree. Stmarysmead, that was a remarkable post. Very well thought out. Too bad there isn't a way to get THAT in the big papers. Maybe we can start a fund and put it in as an ad.

Once again great post.

Or maybe we should stop giving so much credit to the MSM, like thinking they would actually allow any type of negative rebuttal.

IMO, when all is said and done, this forum should revisit all the blog sites that had this story pegged from day one and consider them legitimate in the future. The truth has been out there for weeks, even months in some cases, but MSM wanted nothing to do with it. There are excellent writers making a living getting the truth out and playing by their own rules on blogs. I predict blogosphere will be the end of the media as the source for truth and unbiased information in the future. At the very least, they will hold the MSM accountable and the public will listen.

JMO.

Karmady
05-19-2012, 10:47 PM
Or maybe we should stop giving so much credit to the MSM, like thinking they would actually allow any type of negative rebuttal.

IMO, when all is said and done, this forum should revisit all the blog sites that had this story pegged from day one and consider them legitimate in the future. The truth has been out there for weeks, even months in some cases, but MSM wanted nothing to do with it. There are excellent writers making a living getting the truth out and playing by their own rules on blogs. I predict blogosphere will be the end of the media as the source for truth and unbiased information in the future. At the very least, they will hold the MSM accountable and the public will listen.

JMO.

That is an excellent point, imo. I find that, without even realizing it, I have turned more and more to blogs and other non-msm sources if I want to know the actual facts, or even hear a reasonable debate of them. The only thing I still read in the msm is sports scores, celebrity and lifestyle fluff and straight facts like how much the dow is up or down and current weather conditions.

Dr.Fessel
05-19-2012, 11:07 PM
This one gets the reward for the most things wrong in one sentence. LOL LOL


Paramedics found Martin lying on his stomach, the can of iced tea, still cold, in his sweatshirt pocket. They flipped over his body and attempted CPR for six minutes.


1. Wrong, when paramedics got there Martin was on his back.

2. Wrong. Was not a can of ice tea.

3. Wrong. Was not in his pocket when paramedics got there.

4. Wrong. Paramedics did not flip him over.

5. Wrong. Nobody knows how long CPR was given.

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-505263_162-57436911/zimmerman-atty-dont-judge-by-piecemeal-evidence/

vlpate
05-20-2012, 01:03 AM
Perfect Example of testing the waters:

Family of Florida boy killed by Neighborhood Watch seeks arrest (http://news.yahoo.com/family-florida-boy-killed-neighborhood-watch-seeks-arrest-044537742.html) March 7, 2012
(Excerpts from article)
"ORLANDO, Florida (Reuters) - The family of a 17-year-old African-American boy shot to death last month in his gated Florida community by a white Neighborhood Watch captain..."
.
http://img.ibtimes.com/www/data/images/full/2012/03/21/251779-george-zimmerman-trayvon-martin-shooter-has-no-protection-under-law.jpg
.
Link (http://www.ibtimes.com/articles/318992/20120324/trayvon-martin-case-geroge-zimmerman-lawyer-attorney.htm)
"Trayvon Martin was shot dead after he took a break from watching NBA All-Star game television coverage to walk 10 minutes to a convenience store to buy snacks including Skittles candy requested by his 13-year-old brother, <modsnip>...."
"On his way home, a Neighborhood Watch loose cannon shot and killed him."
"Trayvon, who lived in Miami with his mother, had been visiting his father and stepmother"
.
http://www.prlog.org/11833241-trayvon-martin.jpg
.
Link (http://www.prlog.org/11833241-radio-host-beverly-mahone-discusses-trayvon-martin-case-on-the-boomer-beat.html)
"What do the police find in his pocket? Skittles," Crump said. "A can of Arizona ice tea in his jacket pocket and Skittles in his front pocket for his brother Chad."
"they [dispatcher]told him not to get involved. He disobeyed that order..."
.

vlpate
05-20-2012, 02:34 AM
The disgusting illegal leaking of school records by a criminal then the media does a story on it without showing the report.

In October, a school police investigator said he saw Trayvon on the school surveillance camera in an unauthorized area “hiding and being suspicious.” Then he said he saw Trayvon mark up a door with “W.T.F” — an acronym for “what the f---.” The officer said he found Trayvon the next day and went through his book bag in search of the graffiti marker.

Read more here: http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/03/26/2714778/thousands-expected-at-trayvon.html#storylink=cpy

IMO, this story had very little influence and was, in fact, downplayed by the media via the family, especially Sybrina, 'they killed Trayvon and now they are trying to demonize him' (paraphrasing). In fact, I don't recall hearing this much at all on the MSM and the usual opinion type shows. Anytime it was mentioned here it was diminished with phrases like, "he was just being a teenager" or "all kids his age do things like that".

JMO

Dr.Fessel
05-20-2012, 05:01 AM
IMO, this story had very little influence and was, in fact, downplayed by the media via the family, especially Sybrina, 'they killed Trayvon and now they are trying to demonize him' (paraphrasing). In fact, I don't recall hearing this much at all on the MSM and the usual opinion type shows. Anytime it was mentioned here it was diminished with phrases like, "he was just being a teenager" or "all kids his age do things like that".

JMO


There was probably about a thousand post on here referring to it.

mikeysmommom
05-20-2012, 05:11 AM
It is chilling when the Media chooses sides and clings on for dear life. As a veteran of another high profile Media Hoax, I can explain some of their "tricks."

Usually the side they choose is linked immediately to an historical metanarrative..often one that has great emotional resonance to a group of people. I am NOT disparaging these metanarratives or the historical reasons they exist. I'm pointing out that making an accusation of a crime FIT into old grievances, hurts and wrongs...helps the media begin its process of shaping a case and pre-convicting one side. To that end, the Duke hoax was immediately linked to the Metanarrative of White Men of Privilege raping poor Black women. This was referenced constantly. In this case, it is White Men killing innocent Blacks because of Profiling.

So now we bring all the anger at past profiling and racial disparity and we dump it on this Watch Captain in Florida. He can subsequently do no right in the media and the "victim" becomes immediately "perfect."

To that end, we need pictures. Let's take an old picture of a mean looking GZ and use that. OOPS cannot use any recent pictures of TM where he is pretending that Gang banger look...because the public will not embrace him if we do. So the media finds a picture of him at 13 years old...a CHILD'S picture...no stubble, no gold teeth...a child's picture. And a beautiful child who...yes, does look like a popular President.

So they use that old picture for weeks. This is NOT the face GZ saw that night...it's a child's face. But the Media is about building outrage. Profiling THIS innocent child? How ridiculous, readers fume. (including ME, at first.)

Now we constantly reference the Skittles....a child's treat. Later we hear this 17 year old has an illegal drug in his system but that is WELL after the image of a 13 year old child with Skittles is seared in the publics brain.

The media Image Making and linking to the emotional Metanarrative sets the stage.

Now the mechanics. Any unflattering info about TM must immediately be downplayed or ignored...the changing of schools in mid-year, the three suspensions, the Facebook page, how LONG till they are mentioned and in what context? Where is info placed...beneath a headline ravaging GZ...who has every possible grudge holder interviewed for dirt and reported with zeal. GZ is demonized...by cutting the 911 tape and running it cut many times...by denying his injuries...by finding an "expert" that identifies the screams as TM's...when we are never told that TM's FATHER SAID they were NOT his sons Screams.

Headlines are a tool as well. Today ABC has a headline :

WITNESS BELIEVES GM INTENDED TM TO DIE!!!!

http://abcnews.go.com/US/trayvon-martin-witness-believes-intended-kid-die/t/story?id=16380864

Read the article and you also see at the end that the WITNESS at the scene supports GZ's story AND has TM beating him with Martial Arts Style...but the Media LIKED this quote for a headline...to smear GZ some more...made by a woman who apparently thinks that GZ KNEW he was going to be beaten to a inch of his life and therefore premediated the whole deal. She suggests he could have shot a peson straddling him and beating him...in the LEG! Could someone explain exactly HOW to implement that? Maybe diagram the mechanics when someone is straddling you? That is so ridiculous and DUMB that it is appalling that this is considered relevant at all. That "witness" is giving a NON FACTUAL OPINION that no one can PROVE...but it is the Big Headine. Why? Because the media knows many folks just SCAN headlines and do not actually read. So this headline feeds anger...makes it harder for GZ to get a fair trial. And many will never READ the full context of this Witness' statement at all. Mission of fomenting more hate...ACCOMPLISHED!

Which is the whole idea...because the Media has chosen "a side" before they know the evidence. In fact they are CREATING False evidence to inflame potential jurors and force weak political DAs to file weak cases the Law does not support. Nifong. Corey. Placating public opinion first and foremost. Public opinion fueled by a rabid biased press...inciting for Mob justice. Based on their often later proven FALSE evidence. You cannot unring a Bell.

And if Race is part of the case...The Media is glad to use that to infuriate as well. Subsequently, we have the media reporting on racial slurs that later , much later...they admit were never spoken. That is RECKLESS. Knowing the implications, the hurt, THAT CHARGE should never be made unless it is 100 SOLID. But the Media is like excited gossipy Neighbors...OMG...OMG ...say anything then check it later!!


They initally call GZ "White"....to fit the Metanarrative of "Whites Killing Blacks Because of Profiling"....then when GZ's heritage is unfortunately MIXED...they invent the term "White Hispanic." Then, horrors, he has Black Heritage, Black friends, has mentored Black children. But this is DOWNPLAYED. Instead, the Congressional Black Caucus is interviewed for quotes about TM being "shot like a dog." etc. This is all part of making this case so RACIAL...that defending GZ in any manner makes one a RACIST. This is a useful "Shut-UP" tool that the media uses. If you don't see Crystal Mangum as Sister Survivor raped by three White Men of Privilege JUST BECAUSE she has no LAX DNA and every orifice is chock full of OTHER male DNA...then you are a RACIST! Or you hate women and love rape!

This is terribly unfair. It is possible to respect folks of all races but base one's opinons on FACT not emotion or allegiance. A Black friend who says GZ is not a racist should be allowed to speak and shown the same respect by the media...as any of us would wish. It takes bravery.

If you read about GZ's injuries, read the Law and say, as Harvard Professor Dershowitz says...there should never have been charges...the editorials and media spin is that you are racist, or a gun-nut. How do they do this....by quoting in articles "experts" who analyze people who do not agree with them...as possessing these evil qualities. How many of these erroneous emotional "quotes" are ever retracted or corrected by the Media in later articles? Have you seen articles about the exaggerations made by these Congresspeople about this case? Why not? Does the Media have no responsibility to the truth?

Once the Media sets the hysteria going...witness statements change. The young boy who saw G on top is "corrected" by his Mother. Dad "corrects" whose voice he heard screaming. Because it becomes scary to oppose the Media in full outrage. Then they report death threats by the Black Panthers and our Government tolerates those threats. Gee, any witness, any reader...now gets the point to shut up or go with the Media Mob.

Of couse, we have the Entertainment Ghouls...who exploit these tragedies for ratings...another "media." How often they show their ignorance of the evidence is STUNNING. But they feel NO OBLIGATION to be INFORMED. They exist to pander emotion...push hatred...convict in the public's mind before trial. It is a barbaric profession. Lawyers who go on TV and push slander, lies and misinformation for RATINGS and personal enrichment. And they are quoted as if they are "serious media." Remember NG's wailing about how the Duke accusers fingernails were brutally ripped off?

Lee press on nails. She did her nails in the bathroom...the OTHER stripper testified to that.

Now we have an array of disgruntled old girlfriends, Middle Easterner work associates...blah, blah. The Media takes their every word as GOSPEL...they are the embodiments of perfect truth. No one who smears GZ could ever be lying, have an agenda or a grudge. After all, it's only those who SUPPORT GZ who MUST be liars, racists, or all of the above.

We live in an age where Media credibility is near ZERO...but we love to believe them when their VENDETTAS fit our opinions.

Best Post EVER IMO

mikeysmommom
05-20-2012, 05:18 AM
I agree. Stmarysmead, that was a remarkable post. Very well thought out. Too bad there isn't a way to get THAT in the big papers. Maybe we can start a fund and put it in as an ad.

Once again great post.

Excellent idea! Count me in.

pcrum12
05-20-2012, 08:16 AM
Perfect Example of testing the waters:

Family of Florida boy killed by Neighborhood Watch seeks arrest (http://news.yahoo.com/family-florida-boy-killed-neighborhood-watch-seeks-arrest-044537742.html) March 7, 2012
(Excerpts from article)
"ORLANDO, Florida (Reuters) - The family of a 17-year-old African-American boy shot to death last month in his gated Florida community by a white Neighborhood Watch captain..."
.
http://img.ibtimes.com/www/data/images/full/2012/03/21/251779-george-zimmerman-trayvon-martin-shooter-has-no-protection-under-law.jpg
.
Link (http://www.ibtimes.com/articles/318992/20120324/trayvon-martin-case-geroge-zimmerman-lawyer-attorney.htm)
"Trayvon Martin was shot dead after he took a break from watching NBA All-Star game television coverage to walk 10 minutes to a convenience store to buy snacks including Skittles candy requested by his 13-year-old brother, Chad...."
"On his way home, a Neighborhood Watch loose cannon shot and killed him."
"Trayvon, who lived in Miami with his mother, had been visiting his father and stepmother"
.
http://www.prlog.org/11833241-trayvon-martin.jpg
.
Link (http://www.prlog.org/11833241-radio-host-beverly-mahone-discusses-trayvon-martin-case-on-the-boomer-beat.html)
"What do the police find in his pocket? Skittles," Crump said. "A can of Arizona ice tea in his jacket pocket and Skittles in his front pocket for his brother Chad."
"they [dispatcher]told him not to get involved. He disobeyed that order..."
.

This is the exact article that I can't get off my mind because of the inaccuracy! And the crap about stepmother and brother! GMAB. I mean if we can't even tell the truth about who /what the relationships are, how can we ever believe a thing that is printed? Crazy.

stmarysmead
05-20-2012, 09:00 AM
This is the exact article that I can't get off my mind because of the inaccuracy! And the crap about stepmother and brother! GMAB. I mean if we can't even tell the truth about who /what the relationships are, how can we ever believe a thing that is printed? Crazy.

When the media decides to "take a side"...one of the first clues is the "Father Knows Best/ Bill Cosby Show treatment of the preferred side.

They "mainstream' rather than tell the truth. They are appealing to "middle America"...they think...so the "girlfriend" must be "the StepMother." The other kid is "the brother." He just ran out for 10 minutes to get Skittles.

And then you put a child's picture...YEARS younger than the FACE GZ saw....

That's the process.

Now this story COULD have been written this way.

"A young man lost his life in a Sanford condo Community last night. He was shot during a physical confrontation with the Neighbor Watch Captain who did not recognize the 17 year old...who had just begun his stay at his Father's girlfriends condo after his third school suspension in his second high school this year.

The neighborhood has been under seige from break-ins from youths, many of whom enter the area on foot. Residents were on guard after a several terrifying incidents and, under those circumstances, young Mr. Martin was being observed as he returned home from a convenience store.

Mr. Martin was shot once during the aletrcation which left Mr. Zimmermann, the Watch Captain with a broken nose and head lacerations. Mr. Zimmermann has invoked Florida's STG law. "



Watch the word choices too. On one side ..they will use words like "resisting"..rather than "attacking."

"Loose Cannon"...yup, the demonization has started.

suzihawk
05-20-2012, 09:17 AM
When the media decides to "take a side"...one of the first clues is the "Father Knows Best/ Bill Cosby Show treatment of the preferred side.

They "mainstream' rather than tell the truth. They are appealing to "middle America"...they think...so the "girlfriend" must be "the StepMother." The other kid is "the brother." He just ran out for 10 minutes to get Skittles.

And then you put a child's picture...YEARS younger than the FACE GZ saw....

That's the process.

Now this story COULD have been written this way.

"A young man lost his life in a Sanford condo Community last night. He was shot during a physical confrontation with the Neighbor Watch Captain who did not recognize the 17 year old...who had just begun his stay at his Father's girlfriends condo after his third school suspension in his second high school this year.

The neighborhood has been under seige from break-ins from youths, many of whom enter the area on foot. Residents were on guard after a several terrifying incidents and, under those circumstances, young Mr. Martin was being observed as he returned home from a convenience store.

Mr. Martin was shot once during the aletrcation which left Mr. Zimmermann, the Watch Captain with a broken nose and head lacerations. Mr. Zimmermann has invoked Florida's STG law. "



Watch the word choices too. On one side ..they will use words like "resisting"..rather than "attacking."

"Loose Cannon"...yup, the demonization has started.

Wouldn't the BBM above tend to slant the story in a certain direction since it had nothing to do with the shooting?

daisy7
05-20-2012, 09:50 AM
When the media decides to "take a side"...one of the first clues is the "Father Knows Best/ Bill Cosby Show treatment of the preferred side.

They "mainstream' rather than tell the truth. They are appealing to "middle America"...they think...so the "girlfriend" must be "the StepMother." The other kid is "the brother." He just ran out for 10 minutes to get Skittles.

And then you put a child's picture...YEARS younger than the FACE GZ saw....

That's the process.

Now this story COULD have been written this way.

"A young man lost his life in a Sanford condo Community last night. He was shot during a physical confrontation with the Neighbor Watch Captain who did not recognize the 17 year old...who had just begun his stay at his Father's girlfriends condo after his third school suspension in his second high school this year.

The neighborhood has been under seige from break-ins from youths, many of whom enter the area on foot. Residents were on guard after a several terrifying incidents and, under those circumstances, young Mr. Martin was being observed as he returned home from a convenience store.

Mr. Martin was shot once during the aletrcation which left Mr. Zimmermann, the Watch Captain with a broken nose and head lacerations. Mr. Zimmermann has invoked Florida's STG law. "



Watch the word choices too. On one side ..they will use words like "resisting"..rather than "attacking."

"Loose Cannon"...yup, the demonization has started.

Respectfully bolded and underlined by me. IMO, I don't understand how these parts could be considered impartial reporting?

TM was killed -- a court will decide it the killing was justified, but "lost his life" is normally something I read about a person who has been battling cancer or something.

If you're gonna include any negative history about TM (and GZ did not know his school suspension history), then you gotta include the negative history of GZ (which TM did not know that night). Such as, "GZ had been arrested in the past on assaulting a law enforcement officer. The felony charge was later lowered to a misdemeanor charge after GZ agreed to go into a pre-trial diversion program, that included anger management counseling." Also, include the details about what TM's suspensions were for.

Is it known that the youth that were committing the break-ins entered by foot?

I haven't seen any resident describe these break-ins as terrifying?

GM just "observed" TM? I'm not sure why anyone would describe what he did as merely observing, because in GZ's own words, he followed him?

I would also add that there are conflicting witness statements and it is not know who started the physical altercation. Also, AFAIK, GZ has not legally invoked SYG. But, we have yet to see his statement to SPD from that evening. But, MOM has said that he is not sure if he is going to use this defense.

JMO.

stmarysmead
05-20-2012, 10:15 AM
Of course, that is NOT impartial reporting. It is another way to slant a story. I could have made it much more slanted toward GZ and it still would hardly touch some of the odious biased reporting that has passed as journalism in this case.

I notice you want balance. You want any negativity toward TM countered by negativity toward GZ. Can we agree then that THAT VERY STANDARD should have been applied in reverse?

We cannot demand that TM's parents be off limits if we do not allow GZ's parents to be off limits too. We cannot extend copious amounts of credibilty to TM's friends and trash friends of GZ. We cannot scream at unflattering pictures of TM in Gangsta mode if we say nothing about unflattering pictures of GZ looking similarly bad. We can not say TM's Facebook, language, school problems, and "topics" on his own accounts are off limits if...we allow every bit of gossip from everyone who ever knew GZ to be tauted as GOSPEL truth.

Someone asked where is our empathy for the death of TM. Our empathy for this lost life should be great. Every Mom can identify with his Mother's grief. But the Media did THEM a disservice too. Their overkill in demonizing GZ and shouting down any defense of his...alienates people. Demands that we jail this man for "profiling" without understanding that crime from Black youth was a problem in that neighborhood..is unfair to the extreme. These Talking Heads can shout people down, and shut them up....but they also TURN OFF their empathy. By the time this gets to trial, there had better be SOLID evidence to fit te Media Witchhunt...or Ms. Corey may be the next Mike Nifong...disbarred because of the Hoax of the Duke case.

Overkill by the Media creates a backlash. I think it is already starting. They demonized GZ too much...they sainted TM more than any teenager could be. They ma nipulated 911 calls, try to deny GZ's injuries, and invent the wildest theories when their stories fall apart.

Overkill.

krimekat
05-20-2012, 11:21 AM
We (StL metro) don't hear much about this case now that evidence is being released. In the first 2 weeks it was overkill . . . now there's nothing.

Pictures provided of a young TM did it for me . . . first misrepresentation of the "case".

jjenny
05-20-2012, 03:33 PM
Another example. While the article itself is critical of Angela Corey, whoever wrote the title came up with "George Zimmerman: Angela Corey needs her head examined."
That makes it sound as if Zimmerman is saying he wants Angela Corey to have her head examined. But Zimmerman did not write this article and did not say Angela Corey needs to have her head examined.

"That's the solution in a free society? I think she needs to have her head examined. She also sounds awfully defensive."

http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2012-05-19/entertainment/os-george-zimmerman-angela-corey-20120519_1_fatal-shooting-special-prosecutor-angela-corey-civic-forum

stmarysmead
05-21-2012, 08:55 AM
Look at this incindiary article in the Orlando Sentinel. It references the latest appearance of TM's Mother at a large church. It ASSUMES that "profiling" is at the heart of this matter.Fulton, who brought her mother, aunt and sister with her to Baltimore, praised Bryant extravagantly, as did her attorney, Ben Crump, who also spoke at the church.

"At the beginning, Pastor Bryant was there to help support this family ... telling them that God [doesn't] make mistakes and there will be justice," Crump said.

"Before she went out to meet the congregation, Fulton told reporters that this trip and others she's made recently aren't just for her son but for all young people who might be the victims of racial profiling."

http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2012-05-20/news/bs-ae-trayvon-mother-20120520_1_pastor-bryant-congregation-demand-justice

NO where does it address Black teenage crime statistics in that condo area that might explain GZ's state of mind.

In fact, it quotes an attendee that says GZ had hate in his Blood.

This is all being reported and this Tour by the Parents going on pre-trial. What worth is on this article but to intensify emotion and hatred toward GZ. This is appalling.
No outrageous. And why is the Atty taking this to trial ingratiating himself with the public by these emotional appearances. And why is the media enabling this with publicity?
This "tour" and these types of articles shouls STOP till the man has his day in court.

stmarysmead
05-21-2012, 09:08 AM
Is this a new precedence in a new media stategy. Having the grieving parents go on the road WITH THE LAWYER ...pre-trial? And then friendly media write emotional fury-inducing articles?

Maybe the parents of Eve Carson who truly WAS shot in the street like a dog should have made the national rounds pre-trial of her killers? And the Channon/Newsome families? This is justice now in America?

Should we make this a new media PRE TRial norm.

You can delete this but it is SHAMEFUL. Raise money AFTER trial and report about it then.

stmarysmead
05-21-2012, 09:13 AM
Will juries be excused for attending these "rallies" or being a member of these churches or any church affliated with ones holding these events? How can anyone know the damage the Crump/Martin entourage is doing to the jury pool?

Innocent until proven guilty or until the grieving parents are brought to your Church to move you to fury.

If GZ has his charges dismissed, I hope he sues.

LambChop
05-21-2012, 09:37 AM
Will juries be excused for attending these "rallies" or being a member of these churches or any church affliated with ones holding these events? How can anyone know the damage the Crump/Martin entourage is doing to the jury pool?

Innocent until proven guilty or until the grieving parents are brought to your Church to move you to fury.

If GZ has his charges dismissed, I hope he sues.

Okay, I'll bite. What would he sue for?

cityslick
05-21-2012, 09:51 AM
Okay, I'll bite. What would he sue for?

Defamation of character?

I don't know, just throwing it out there.

LambChop
05-21-2012, 10:31 AM
Defamation of character?

I don't know, just throwing it out there.

Ahhhhh, we've heard the call GZ made to dispatch and his description of TM. His past arrest records are public knowledge. I think the parents are after the SYG law are they not? All the Martin's have asked for is justice, a trial. Seems pretty standard stuff up to this point. GZ is responsible for his character and he admitted shooting TM. That doesn't leave a whole lot more for anyone to say about him. It's out there and with the trial there will be more to come. jmo

vlpate
05-21-2012, 11:22 AM
Is it known that the youth that were committing the break-ins entered by foot?
One pair were in a car, the others on the reports were coming through a cut through in the back of the community.
I haven't seen any resident describe these break-ins as terrifying?
The details of the Twin Lakes Burglary Reports (https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q=cache:XDAkNnJA6iUJ:www.sanfordfl.gov/investigation/docs/BurglaryReports.pdf+&hl=en&gl=us&pid=bl&srcid=ADGEESjij8EORTKBdK-Hr8S2dBn0C7Yxk3JGmEgJ5APjXfXkTyn3UL22SasMHOKKb5zJX DjM2eZzWME1MPv3JsNf1W-XYKXgR2-o06Q6SOf0CTc5n63F7eNviSTU7nRZ2eXQYf3EYGyu&sig=AHIEtbTdVoeh6Zdjt7H8uiWwXJSlAuqTgA) with witness statements detail one victim who was so terrified she moved out immediately. This was the woman who observed two black youths at her door from her bedroom window. When she didn't answer, they came in and she hid with her baby while calling 911. She listened to them going through her house until police came. GZ knew this because he spoke with the poor woman after it happened. I imagine he was afraid for his own wife who studied at home while he worked. Of course this didn't make headlines during or after the big media blitz - Corey made sure those reports came down before submitting her over-charged probable cause document.

How "terrified" does a person have to be to warrant wanting to protect their home and loved ones? It's like the degree of terror GZ was supposed feel before shooting TM, at what point do we decide how much is enough to satisfy the masses and shoot our attacker?

JMO

LambChop
05-21-2012, 11:27 AM
One pair were in a car, the others on the reports were coming through a cut through in the back of the community.

The details of the Twin Lakes Burglary Reports (https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q=cache:XDAkNnJA6iUJ:www.sanfordfl.gov/investigation/docs/BurglaryReports.pdf+&hl=en&gl=us&pid=bl&srcid=ADGEESjij8EORTKBdK-Hr8S2dBn0C7Yxk3JGmEgJ5APjXfXkTyn3UL22SasMHOKKb5zJX DjM2eZzWME1MPv3JsNf1W-XYKXgR2-o06Q6SOf0CTc5n63F7eNviSTU7nRZ2eXQYf3EYGyu&sig=AHIEtbTdVoeh6Zdjt7H8uiWwXJSlAuqTgA) with witness statements detail one victim who was so terrified she moved out immediately. This was the woman who observed two black youths at her door from her bedroom window. When she didn't answer, they came in and she hid with her baby while calling 911. She listened to them going through her house until police came. GZ knew this because he spoke with the poor woman after it happened. I imagine he was afraid for his own wife who studied at home while he worked. Of course this didn't make headlines during or after the big media blitz - Corey made sure those reports came down before submitting her over-charged probable cause document.

How "terrified" does a person have to be to warrant wanting to protect their home and loved ones? It's like the degree of terror GZ was supposed feel before shooting TM, at what point do we decide how much is enough to satisfy the masses and shoot our attacker?

JMO

We buy an alarm system with a loud horn on the outside. Scare the carpola out of them I say. Makes more sense then getting into an altercation with an innocent young man who was just walking home. jmo

Nana46
05-21-2012, 11:33 AM
Ahhhhh, we've heard the call GZ made to dispatch and his description of TM. His past arrest records are public knowledge. I think the parents are after the SYG law are they not? All the Martin's have asked for is justice, a trial. Seems pretty standard stuff up to this point. GZ is responsible for his character and he admitted shooting TM. That doesn't leave a whole lot more for anyone to say about him. It's out there and with the trial there will be more to come. jmo

LambChop you have the most respectful posts....I admire you. Keep up the good work!!!!

vlpate
05-21-2012, 11:36 AM
Will juries be excused for attending these "rallies" or being a member of these churches or any church affliated with ones holding these events? How can anyone know the damage the Crump/Martin entourage is doing to the jury pool?

Innocent until proven guilty or until the grieving parents are brought to your Church to move you to fury.

If GZ has his charges dismissed, I hope he sues.

I would think NBC would be first up. They are the ones who put out the story again, as if it were new, that the FBI could file charges on GZ for a hate crime. Much wishful thinking on their part, methinks.

cityslick
05-21-2012, 11:52 AM
He probably could also go after NBC for the whole 911 fiasco.

Karmady
05-21-2012, 12:07 PM
We buy an alarm system with a loud horn on the outside. Scare the carpola out of them I say. Makes more sense then getting into an altercation with an innocent young man who was just walking home. jmo

I don't want to buy an alarm system with a loud horn. I want, and have an absolute right, not to have criminals break in to my home. If there are problems attorney Crump should be focusing on, they are the crime committed by black youth (assuming he wants to continue to confine his efforts to the black community), the reasons for that, and the justice system that slaps them on the wrist and turns them lose. Otherwise, we will continue to have more and more crime with fewer and fewer consequences. Not to mention the fact that jail/prison life is now so relatively non-punitive many criminals don't even mind being there. jmo

suzihawk
05-21-2012, 12:37 PM
I don't want to buy an alarm system with a loud horn. I want, and have an absolute right, not to have criminals break in to my home. If there are problems attorney Crump should be focusing on, they are the crime committed by black youth (assuming he wants to continue to confine his efforts to the black community), the reasons for that, and the justice system that slaps them on the wrist and turns them lose. Otherwise, we will continue to have more and more crime with fewer and fewer consequences. Not to mention the fact that jail/prison life is now so relatively non-punitive many criminals don't even mind being there. jmo

Wouldn't that be ideal? Of course, we all want, and have a right, not to be victims of crime. Unfortunately, that's not the society we currently live in. We live in a society that bestows more rights to the criminals and the accused than to the victims of those criminals. Until the victims (or potential victims) have the same rights as the criminals under the law, we're left to provide whatever protection for ourselves as individually deemed necessary.

Karmady
05-21-2012, 12:51 PM
Wouldn't that be ideal? Of course, we all want, and have a right, not to be victims of crime. Unfortunately, that's not the society we currently live in. We live in a society that bestows more rights to the criminals and the accused than to the victims of those criminals. Until the victims (or potential victims) have the same rights as the criminals under the law, we're left to provide whatever protection for ourselves as individually deemed necessary.

haha...finally found something we can agree on!

gxm
05-21-2012, 01:03 PM
We buy an alarm system with a loud horn on the outside. Scare the carpola out of them I say. Makes more sense then getting into an altercation with an innocent young man who was just walking home. jmo

What if they don't have the money to afford and install an alarm system?

gxm
05-21-2012, 01:25 PM
Is this a new precedence in a new media stategy. Having the grieving parents go on the road WITH THE LAWYER ...pre-trial? And then friendly media write emotional fury-inducing articles?

Maybe the parents of Eve Carson who truly WAS shot in the street like a dog should have made the national rounds pre-trial of her killers? And the Channon/Newsome families? This is justice now in America?

Should we make this a new media PRE TRial norm.

You can delete this but it is SHAMEFUL. Raise money AFTER trial and report about it then.

BBM. It's interesting that you mention Eve Carson. I've been thinking about her, and I'm wondering when the folks who cry "profiling" think it would have been okay for her to shoot her killers. Would have it been okay for her to shoot them as they approached her? Or would she have to wait until right before they killed her? If she had "profiled" them as they approached her, she would be alive today, and probably sitting in jail even though she would have been correct in assuming they meant her harm. It's a catch 22.

With that in mind, let's consider that GZ waited until TM was beating him to draw his gun. He did not get out of his car, draw his gun and shoot TM when he first saw him. He waited until he was being beaten and felt his life was in danger.

IMO, this whole "anti-profiling" propaganda that the MSM is trying to sell is really rather bizarre. Why can't citizens assess their personal threat level? Why are white people being told that if they feel threatened by a person of color they're racist? Nobody tells people of color they aren't allowed to feel threatened by a white person. IMO, the individual—who is living in the real world in real time and is not just some abstract demographic—is probably much more able to gauge their personal situation than some ideologue meme-maker who is sitting miles away in the comfort of his own private vacuum.

JMO, OMO, and MOO

annalia
05-21-2012, 01:45 PM
Any comparison to Eve Carson or the Newsome/Channon murders is absurd on every level.

The circumstances surrounding those brutal, horrific murders don't in any way shape or from compare to what happened in this case. And in both those cases police did their jobs, their killers were also tried and convicted, to which I'm sure their grieving families were grateful to our justice system for, even though the horrors of their deaths will remain with them for the rest of their lives.

If it's that important to compare them and if one really wanted to be honest, then Trayvon would be compared to the victims as he was doing nothing more than minding his own business going to and from the store, when GZ spotted him and decided that he was his judge, jury and executioner.

There's also no comparison in trying to claim that white people cannot feel threatened by people of color to this case, GZ had the option to stay in his car and wait for police instead of gunning down an innocent kid on the way home from the store. Trayvon was no threat to him whatsoever. Trayvon forced him to do nothing, everything was in GZ's court that night, it started and ended with him, he made the choices that ended a kid's life.

gxm
05-21-2012, 02:14 PM
Any comparison to Eve Carson or the Newsome/Channon murders is absurd on every level.

The circumstances surrounding those brutal, horrific murders don't in any way shape or from compare to what happened in this case. And in both those cases police did their jobs, their killers were also tried and convicted, to which I'm sure their grieving families were grateful to our justice system for, even though the horrors of their deaths will remain with them for the rest of their lives.

If it's that important to compare them and if one really wanted to be honest, then Trayvon would be compared to the victims as he was doing nothing more than minding his own business going to and from the store, when GZ spotted him and decided that he was his judge, jury and executioner.

There's also no comparison in trying to claim that white people cannot feel threatened by people of color to this case, GZ had the option to stay in his car and wait for police instead of gunning down an innocent kid on the way home from the store. Trayvon was no threat to him whatsoever. Trayvon forced him to do nothing, everything was in GZ's court that night, it started and ended with him, he made the choices that ended a kid's life.

My point is that the media, with Crump's guidance, created this whole false "profiling" meme. IMO, citizens can't profile. They're just citizens. Profiling is a term that should be used in law enforcement, not the way the media has distorted it. If someone's hinky meter goes off, they should be allowed to listen to it and not be called racist. Instead, we read about how black men hear car doors lock when they walk by as if this is some sort of confrontational and/or aggressive form of racism that causes great emotional harm.

TM became a threat to GZ when he started physically attacking him. And that's when GZ defended himself. Which seems to me to be the appropriate time to introduce the gun. As opposed to just stepping out of his car and shooting TM as he walked by. Which GZ didn't do.

JMO, OMO, and MOO

vlpate
05-21-2012, 02:16 PM
We buy an alarm system with a loud horn on the outside. Scare the carpola out of them I say. Makes more sense then getting into an altercation with an innocent young man who was just walking home. jmo

The loud horns only scare them from your house and family, but there are always others with easier access.

Mendara
05-21-2012, 02:52 PM
BBM. It's interesting that you mention Eve Carson. I've been thinking about her, and I'm wondering when the folks who cry "profiling" think it would have been okay for her to shoot her killers. Would have it been okay for her to shoot them as they approached her? Or would she have to wait until right before they killed her? If she had "profiled" them as they approached her, she would be alive today, and probably sitting in jail even though she would have been correct in assuming they meant her harm. It's a catch 22.

With that in mind, let's consider that GZ waited until TM was beating him to draw his gun. He did not get out of his car, draw his gun and shoot TM when he first saw him. He waited until he was being beaten and felt his life was in danger.

IMO, this whole "anti-profiling" propaganda that the MSM is trying to sell is really rather bizarre. Why can't citizens access their personal threat level? Why are white people being told that if they feel threatened by a person of color they're racist? Nobody tells people of color they aren't allowed to feel threatened by a white person. IMO, the individual—who is living in the real world in real time and is not just some abstract demographic—is probably much more able to gauge their personal situation than some ideologue meme-maker who is sitting miles away in the comfort of his own private vacuum.

JMO, OMO, and MOO

This may be OT:

First I want to say I am Puerto Rican (just in case you thought I was white, but to some I am a WHITE Hispanic eyes rolling.)

Next I want to say I agree with you. Do we live in a world where criminals come with a sign that tell us right away that they are criminals? Do the signs also tell you if they are about to commit their first offense on you?

NO I think NOT. We live in a world of statistics, MSM polarizations of criminals and local facts.

THE PROFILE of the criminals that were breaking into these homes was in fact BLACK YOUTH. Trayvon was a BLACK YOUTH, he fit the profile because he was BLACK and a YOUTH in a neighborhood where BLACK YOUTHS were breaking into homes. GZ did not make this up. He saw a BLACK YOUTH walking around looking like he was ON DRUGS in a neighborhood that was having this specific issue. His first thought was not simply that Trayvon must be a criminal because he is black, but he had the local facts which were that YES he fit the profile of what GZ was watching out for. This was not a racial crime. It may be a crime of another beast but NOT racial. IMO

We live in a world where it is not okay to describe a suspicious person who is looking suspicious IF THEY ARE BLACK. If they are WHITE then we can say they are WHITE and suspicious. But if they are BLACK then we are saying that they are suspicious to us BECAUSE they are BLACK EVEN THOUGH we didn’t SAY THOSE WORDS, but only if the person who is reporting is not also BLACK because black on black profiling is RIDICULOUS (sarcasm).

I never understood why it is a huge no no to use race when you suspect someone might be dangerous. Like why I am a horrible person if I get nervous on a plane with a middle eastern man who I think looks suspicious, the terrorist who scarred me for life on 9-11 look like this man sitting next to me. I am sorry if I get nervous but those are facts that that man will have to live with. He may be innocent, but I don't know this.

If I know there is a rapist loose and he was described as a black male wearing red pants and I see a black man wearing red pants and I think could this be him and I cross the street, why am I wrong? Why should I assume I live in some UTOPIA where all black men should be considered innocent unless they are wearing a sign. If the rapist was described as white male wearing red pants and I have the SAME feelings when I see a white male am I wrong? Or am I just wrong when he is black?

I live in NYC and it looks to me like rikers (prison) is mostly full of minorities and most criminals polarized in the news are minorities here in NYC. That makes me sad and I hate that this is what it is, but it is a fact. Why is it wrong to say it out loud?

I think what happened that night was a chain of errors - bad situation made worse by bad choices and hysteria. I think what happened in the MSM after was horribly damaging and made things worse.

The real story was that a neighborhood was being burglarized by black youths and a neighborhood watch person thought he had spotted one in the neighborhood, he was ampted up, he was suspicious of the youth, he was following him thinking he caught one of them before a crime was committed, he at some point tells the 911 operator that "these as**oles always get away" which means that he really wants to catch him, why? To be the hero neighborhood watch guy? Maybe (error in judgement on GZ part).

Trayvon notices GZ and starts coming toward him according to GZ who is growing more suspicious and more ampted because he is convinced this is one of the youths. He think Trayvon has something in his hand.

Trayvon RUNS (misunderstanding) - why does he run? Is he afraid of GZ? Does he think GZ is a cop? Doesn't matter because now GZ is even more convinced that he is right. MO

Meanwhile the young teen had no idea what was happening in the neighborhood and saw a man watching him and seemed to be following him. He had no idea he fit the profile of the criminal teens. A misunderstanding came to ahead the youth believing he was being followed, the man believing he was looking at a criminal.

At one point on the call GZ loses TM. What happened next? How did they find each other again? Did Trayvon simply run and then come up behind GZ?

MO: The youth not knowing the man was armed confronted the man and knocked him to the ground the man not knowing the teen was not involved in the criminal acts fights the teen and becomes overtaken by who he believes is a criminal and he shoots him. The situation confusing and hysterical at that point. I heard the screams and they sound like GZ screaming for help. MO

What is the answer to what happened? Who was wrong? If GZ is right that he was being attacked, had he not had a gun and TM continued to beat him, would we care? or would this just go down in the neighborhood as another attack by a black youth?

Errors made by both. TM if he did have drugs in his system perhaps felt angry that he was being followed and did attack GZ, but in his ignorance did not expect to be shot and perhaps did not deserve to die over a few blows.

GZ should have called the police and stayed put, but did he know this was just some 17 year old kid who was visiting the neighborhood who currently was high and may lose his temper due to being followed?

GZ had a gun and may have invisioned some kind of citizens arrest, but it just did not go down that way.

MO - this is a huge tragedy and TM's parents at least do deserve to know what happened and the SYG law does not apply here. If GZ is claiming self defense then there needs to be a trial and a jury will decide. He should not get an automatic pass because of SYG - this is a life he took because of a misunderstanding, he should not have gone as far as he did and that needs to be investigated.

The MEDIA was wrong to make this about RACE.

MO

stmarysmead
05-21-2012, 03:12 PM
BBM. It's interesting that you mention Eve Carson. I've been thinking about her, and I'm wondering when the folks who cry "profiling" think it would have been okay for her to shoot her killers. Would have it been okay for her to shoot them as they approached her? Or would she have to wait until right before they killed her? If she had "profiled" them as they approached her, she would be alive today, and probably sitting in jail even though she would have been correct in assuming they meant her harm. It's a catch 22.

With that in mind, let's consider that GZ waited until TM was beating him to draw his gun. He did not get out of his car, draw his gun and shoot TM when he first saw him. He waited until he was being beaten and felt his life was in danger.

IMO, this whole "anti-profiling" propaganda that the MSM is trying to sell is really rather bizarre. Why can't citizens access their personal threat level? Why are white people being told that if they feel threatened by a person of color they're racist? Nobody tells people of color they aren't allowed to feel threatened by a white person. IMO, the individual—who is living in the real world in real time and is not just some abstract demographic—is probably much more able to gauge their personal situation than some ideologue meme-maker who is sitting miles away in the comfort of his own private vacuum.

JMO, OMO, and MOO

Great post. And since when is it a law that I stay in my car if I suspect that a stranger in my neighborhood might pose a threat. And WHO has to stay in the car...can I charge profiling if I am watched for a few minutes by a resident in a minority neighborhood.
Profiling exists. It needs to be addressed when RACE is the prime reason or motivation for the action. To say GZ was "profiling" cheapens" the definition. And makes it so over broad that it is ridiculous.

He watched TM because the neighborhood had a problem with Black teenage CRIME.
Preventing that crime was the motivation. Are we to the point now that it's a hate crime punishable by death to observe strangers in your neighborhood?

This case should be about the shooting ALONE. Get the race element OUT. Why did GZ shoot? How did it happen?

We may as well be debating if TM hated White/Hispanics and was that the reason for the fight. This whole "profiling" aspect is unworthy of discussion.

IT WAS THE NEIGHBORHOOD CRIME PROBLEM!! Race only mattered because statistically Black teens were causing a lot of the problem.

stmarysmead
05-21-2012, 03:17 PM
I bring up Eve Carson because that was a crime that also raised emotions very high. She asked her killers to pray with her before they shot her several times...truly like a dog...for what seemed like no reason.

Yet IMO those young men deserved a fair trial and a jury open to hearing evidence that might favor them. Maybe they were the wrong guys ...or one was. They deserved a jury untainted by the kind of media. PR strategies that are in play in this case.

Every defendant does.

I would not want to have seen Eve Carson's parents and their lawyer visiting Southern mega churches PRE-trial. This is absolutely appropriate after the trial...but pre-trial, it is determental to the ability to sit a impartial jury. It seems like a PR campaign and certainly is an extremely emotional experience judging by media reports. Is it fair or ethical (peaking of the lawyer here) pre-trial? I'm sure the parents in their grief look to the lawyers about what they should do.

I wonder if GZ's lawyer will question potential jurors about attending these emotional and yes, heart-wrenching events. I am NOT criticizing the parents here, but the Atty who should have a higher regard for justice and a fair trial for all.

tehcloser
05-21-2012, 03:29 PM
We have known the media was screwed up for many years. Long before we ever heard of Trayvon Martin. It started getting screwed up about the time everyone started making everything political. Earthlings ceased being human and became fodder for the machine...it's not only the media's fault. It became acceptable by John Q. when he got lazy and didn't look outside his box. He simply accepted what the head in the box told him.

vlpate
05-21-2012, 03:36 PM
Look at this incindiary article in the Orlando Sentinel. It references the latest appearance of TM's Mother at a large church. It ASSUMES that "profiling" is at the heart of this matter.Fulton, who brought her mother, aunt and sister with her to Baltimore, praised Bryant extravagantly, as did her attorney, Ben Crump, who also spoke at the church.

"At the beginning, Pastor Bryant was there to help support this family ... telling them that God [doesn't] make mistakes and there will be justice," Crump said.

"Before she went out to meet the congregation, Fulton told reporters that this trip and others she's made recently aren't just for her son but for all young people who might be the victims of racial profiling."

http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2012-05-20/news/bs-ae-trayvon-mother-20120520_1_pastor-bryant-congregation-demand-justice

NO where does it address Black teenage crime statistics in that condo area that might explain GZ's state of mind.

In fact, it quotes an attendee that says GZ had hate in his Blood.

This is all being reported and this Tour by the Parents going on pre-trial. What worth is on this article but to intensify emotion and hatred toward GZ. This is appalling.
No outrageous. And why is the Atty taking this to trial ingratiating himself with the public by these emotional appearances. And why is the media enabling this with publicity?
This "tour" and these types of articles shouls STOP till the man has his day in court.
BEM: The civil suit to follow is my guess. He won the last family 7 million, of which he received a hefty fee. This, without a conviction. He sued the police department as well.

Unless there's a payday at the end, he's spent many months totally dedicated to a case he is making zero money on. He should have backed off already, the arrest he proclaimed to want has been made. He needs to keep this in the media and he needs to continue to demonize GZ for the end to justify the means. JMO

LambChop
05-21-2012, 04:01 PM
What if they don't have the money to afford and install an alarm system?

It's about $25 a month. If you can manage cable in your budget you can certainly manage a security system. That would have kept GZ plenty busy. And with that many condos I bet the HOA could have worked a deal with a local security company. It's not that expensive if you fear breakins. How much is your life worth??? If you can afford to live in a gated community, you can afford the extra security. Also your local police department can also tell you how to keep your home safe and it's not expensive. Charlie bars, locks on downstairs windows, etc. all of which are relatively inexpensive. jmo

claudicici
05-21-2012, 04:22 PM
I find this threat so ironic.For years and years and years MSM has helped vilify young black guys.IMO MSM has a lot to do with people profiling young black guys as criminals.In this case I have yet to see prove that young black guys were causing most of the crimes in the gated community.I think to realize that GZ was racial profiling is common sense to those of us who feel that way and none of us needed MSM or the Martins attorneys to point it out.I don't think MSM has influenced anyone in either direction in this case.
And what about blogs like "theconservativetreehouse"? Without prove of anything they claim to have discovered who the minor witness in this case is that is supposed to stay anonymous and everyone one is influenced by it and takes it as the truth.

Karmady
05-21-2012, 04:26 PM
I find this threat so ironic.For years and years and years MSM has helped vilify young black guys.IMO MSM has a lot to do with people profiling young black guys as criminals.In this case I have yet to see prove that young black guys were causing most of the crimes in the gated community.I think to realize that GZ was racial profiling is common sense to those of us who feel that way and none of us needed MSM or the Martins attorneys to point it out.I don't think MSM has influenced anyone in either direction in this case.
And what about blogs like "theconservativetreehouse"? Without prove of anything they claim to have discovered who the minor witness in this case is that is supposed to stay anonymous and everyone one is influenced by it and takes it as the truth.

I had asked about the alleged girl friend up thread in response to a post where you suggested that the wrong girl was identified. I was wondering whether there is a reason you can share about why they have the wrong girl, and where information about that might be. Without name her, of course. If I'm wrong about who this witness is, I'd like to know. TIA :)

LambChop
05-21-2012, 04:27 PM
I think most of the big media outlets want to get it right. Misinformation comes from people who want to "sell" their information to media and that is the biggest problem and why so much of the information is incorrect. The media runs with it because it's protected information they can't confirm so they release it. It's a gamble. Recently some of those reporters lost their jobs. It was a gamble, they lost.

Reading through the posts I'm amazed at how many people think TM was the aggressor and GZ was totally, and I mean totally, innocent even after hearing the charges. Without any proof other than TM was a young black male walking from 7-11 after buying a drink and candy and was on his way home. That somehow this is all his fault. That somehow he did not walk fast enough, did not run, should not have been hiding, maybe doubled back just to attack GZ. If TM made it all the way home and doubled back in that small amount of timeframe how would he have known GZ was still following him???

The media is not perfect but they do appear to be doing the best they can. Covering the Martins is news. It's still a free country, thank goodness, and unless the Martins were calling for riots I believe they have a right to be heard. This was their son, they could be banging the drum a lot harder. They do not want this to happen again to any young innocent teen. Can we blame them???? jmo

cityslick
05-21-2012, 04:29 PM
I think most of the big media outlets want to get it right. Misinformation comes from people who want to "sell" their information to media and that is the biggest problem and why so much of the information is incorrect. The media runs with it because it's protected information they can't confirm so they release it. It's a gamble. Recently some of those reporters lost their jobs. It was a gamble, they lost.

Reading through the posts I'm amazed at how many people think TM was the aggressor and GZ was totally, and I mean totally, innocent even after hearing the charges. Without any proof other than TM was a young black male walking from 7-11 after buying a drink and candy and was on his way home. That somehow this is all his fault. That somehow he did not walk fast enough, did not run, should not have been hiding, maybe doubled back just to attack GZ. If TM made it all the way home and doubled back in that small amount of timeframe how would he have known GZ was still following him???

The media is not perfect but they do appear to be doing the best they can. Covering the Martins is news. It's still a free country, thank goodness, and unless the Martins were calling for riots I believe they have a right to be heard. This was their son, they could be banging the drum a lot harder. They do not want this to happen again to any young innocent teen. Can we blame them???? jmo

NBC didn't want to get it right. How can that be explained as anything else by trying to lead a story in one direction?

LambChop
05-21-2012, 04:31 PM
I had asked about the alleged girl friend up thread in response to a post where you suggested that the wrong girl was identified. I was wondering whether there is a reason you can share about why they have the wrong girl, and where information about that might be. Without name her, of course. If I'm wrong about who this witness is, I'd like to know. TIA :)

If the court sealed her name we shouldn't be sleuthing her, should we? The point of keeping her name out is the exact reason we should not be trying to find out who she is. We shouldn't be sleuthing any witnesses who names are sealed that we don't already know. The judge sealed them for that very reason. He does not want outside interference that will influence their testimony or threats to them. jmo

LambChop
05-21-2012, 04:42 PM
NBC didn't want to get it right. How can that be explained as anything else by trying to lead a story in one direction?

How many stories does NBC get right? Someone was not watching or editing this person. They lost their job which was the right action for NBC to take. It's a mistake that can be rectified. IMO the error was caught by readers. The same people who read the original will probably read about those getting fired. It all evens out in the end. If you don't like a particular media station, don't watch them. That is what many people do. Enough people stop watching they'll clean up their act.

Until the media learns that "money is the route to all evil" and continue to pay big bucks for these stories (pictures) this problem will never go away. jmo

pcrum12
05-21-2012, 04:47 PM
This may be OT:

First I want to say I am Puerto Rican (just in case you thought I was white, but to some I am a WHITE Hispanic eyes rolling.)

Next I want to say I agree with you. Do we live in a world where criminals come with a sign that tell us right away that they are criminals? Do the signs also tell you if they are about to commit their first offense on you?

NO I think NOT. We live in a world of statistics, MSM polarizations of criminals and local facts.

THE PROFILE of the criminals that were breaking into these homes was in fact BLACK YOUTH. Trayvon was a BLACK YOUTH, he fit the profile because he was BLACK and a YOUTH in a neighborhood where BLACK YOUTHS were breaking into homes. GZ did not make this up. He saw a BLACK YOUTH walking around looking like he was ON DRUGS in a neighborhood that was having this specific issue. His first thought was not simply that Trayvon must be a criminal because he is black, but he had the local facts which were that YES he fit the profile of what GZ was watching out for. This was not a racial crime. It may be a crime of another beast but NOT racial. IMO

We live in a world where it is not okay to describe a suspicious person who is looking suspicious IF THEY ARE BLACK. If they are WHITE then we can say they are WHITE and suspicious. But if they are BLACK then we are saying that they are suspicious to us BECAUSE they are BLACK EVEN THOUGH we didn’t SAY THOSE WORDS, but only if the person who is reporting is not also BLACK because black on black profiling is RIDICULOUS (sarcasm).

I never understood why it is a huge no no to use race when you suspect someone might be dangerous. Like why I am a horrible person if I get nervous on a plane with a middle eastern man who I think looks suspicious, the terrorist who scarred me for life on 9-11 look like this man sitting next to me. I am sorry if I get nervous but those are facts that that man will have to live with. He may be innocent, but I don't know this.

If I know there is a rapist loose and he was described as a black male wearing red pants and I see a black man wearing red pants and I think could this be him and I cross the street, why am I wrong? Why should I assume I live in some UTOPIA where all black men should be considered innocent unless they are wearing a sign. If the rapist was described as white male wearing red pants and I have the SAME feelings when I see a white male am I wrong? Or am I just wrong when he is black?

I live in NYC and it looks to me like rikers (prison) is mostly full of minorities and most criminals polarized in the news are minorities here in NYC. That makes me sad and I hate that this is what it is, but it is a fact. Why is it wrong to say it out loud?

I think what happened that night was a chain of errors - bad situation made worse by bad choices and hysteria. I think what happened in the MSM after was horribly damaging and made things worse.

The real story was that a neighborhood was being burglarized by black youths and a neighborhood watch person thought he had spotted one in the neighborhood, he was ampted up, he was suspicious of the youth, he was following him thinking he caught one of them before a crime was committed, he at some point tells the 911 operator that "these as**oles always get away" which means that he really wants to catch him, why? To be the hero neighborhood watch guy? Maybe (error in judgement on GZ part).

Trayvon notices GZ and starts coming toward him according to GZ who is growing more suspicious and more ampted because he is convinced this is one of the youths. He think Trayvon has something in his hand.

Trayvon RUNS (misunderstanding) - why does he run? Is he afraid of GZ? Does he think GZ is a cop? Doesn't matter because now GZ is even more convinced that he is right. MO

Meanwhile the young teen had no idea what was happening in the neighborhood and saw a man watching him and seemed to be following him. He had no idea he fit the profile of the criminal teens. A misunderstanding came to ahead the youth believing he was being followed, the man believing he was looking at a criminal.

At one point on the call GZ loses TM. What happened next? How did they find each other again? Did Trayvon simply run and then come up behind GZ?

MO: The youth not knowing the man was armed confronted the man and knocked him to the ground the man not knowing the teen was not involved in the criminal acts fights the teen and becomes overtaken by who he believes is a criminal and he shoots him. The situation confusing and hysterical at that point. I heard the screams and they sound like GZ screaming for help. MO

What is the answer to what happened? Who was wrong? If GZ is right that he was being attacked, had he not had a gun and TM continued to beat him, would we care? or would this just go down in the neighborhood as another attack by a black youth?

Errors made by both. TM if he did have drugs in his system perhaps felt angry that he was being followed and did attack GZ, but in his ignorance did not expect to be shot and perhaps did not deserve to die over a few blows.

GZ should have called the police and stayed put, but did he know this was just some 17 year old kid who was visiting the neighborhood who currently was high and may lose his temper due to being followed?

GZ had a gun and may have invisioned some kind of citizens arrest, but it just did not go down that way.

MO - this is a huge tragedy and TM's parents at least do deserve to know what happened and the SYG law does not apply here. If GZ is claiming self defense then there needs to be a trial and a jury will decide. He should not get an automatic pass because of SYG - this is a life he took because of a misunderstanding, he should not have gone as far as he did and that needs to be investigated.

The MEDIA was wrong to make this about RACE.

MO

BEM: Totally Agree with Bolded.

stmarysmead
05-21-2012, 04:49 PM
Re: Nbc:nothing gets on the air with just one person vetting it. Every media outlet has "checkers." Think of how attorneys involve themselves today ALL across the media for fear of lawsuits. Yes, this was "reviewe d. It wasn't ONE persson. NBC had an agenda to put out a false report. Ooops, They were caught. They have zero credibility henceforth.

And yes, there is BIG money now at play here. Crump has PR machine and a srategy hat includes polluting the jury pool with emotionalim through this PR tour. I do not blame the grieving parents. I BLAME HIM.

vlpate
05-21-2012, 04:52 PM
This may be OT:

First I want to say I am Puerto Rican (just in case you thought I was white, but to some I am a WHITE Hispanic eyes rolling.)

Next I want to say I agree with you. Do we live in a world where criminals come with a sign that tell us right away that they are criminals? Do the signs also tell you if they are about to commit their first offense on you?

NO I think NOT. We live in a world of statistics, MSM polarizations of criminals and local facts.

THE PROFILE of the criminals that were breaking into these homes was in fact BLACK YOUTH. Trayvon was a BLACK YOUTH, he fit the profile because he was BLACK and a YOUTH in a neighborhood where BLACK YOUTHS were breaking into homes. GZ did not make this up. He saw a BLACK YOUTH walking around looking like he was ON DRUGS in a neighborhood that was having this specific issue. His first thought was not simply that Trayvon must be a criminal because he is black, but he had the local facts which were that YES he fit the profile of what GZ was watching out for. This was not a racial crime. It may be a crime of another beast but NOT racial. IMO

We live in a world where it is not okay to describe a suspicious person who is looking suspicious IF THEY ARE BLACK. If they are WHITE then we can say they are WHITE and suspicious. But if they are BLACK then we are saying that they are suspicious to us BECAUSE they are BLACK EVEN THOUGH we didn’t SAY THOSE WORDS, but only if the person who is reporting is not also BLACK because black on black profiling is RIDICULOUS (sarcasm).

I never understood why it is a huge no no to use race when you suspect someone might be dangerous. Like why I am a horrible person if I get nervous on a plane with a middle eastern man who I think looks suspicious, the terrorist who scarred me for life on 9-11 look like this man sitting next to me. I am sorry if I get nervous but those are facts that that man will have to live with. He may be innocent, but I don't know this.

If I know there is a rapist loose and he was described as a black male wearing red pants and I see a black man wearing red pants and I think could this be him and I cross the street, why am I wrong? Why should I assume I live in some UTOPIA where all black men should be considered innocent unless they are wearing a sign. If the rapist was described as white male wearing red pants and I have the SAME feelings when I see a white male am I wrong? Or am I just wrong when he is black?

I live in NYC and it looks to me like rikers (prison) is mostly full of minorities and most criminals polarized in the news are minorities here in NYC. That makes me sad and I hate that this is what it is, but it is a fact. Why is it wrong to say it out loud?

I think what happened that night was a chain of errors - bad situation made worse by bad choices and hysteria. I think what happened in the MSM after was horribly damaging and made things worse.

The real story was that a neighborhood was being burglarized by black youths and a neighborhood watch person thought he had spotted one in the neighborhood, he was ampted up, he was suspicious of the youth, he was following him thinking he caught one of them before a crime was committed, he at some point tells the 911 operator that "these as**oles always get away" which means that he really wants to catch him, why? To be the hero neighborhood watch guy? Maybe (error in judgement on GZ part).

Trayvon notices GZ and starts coming toward him according to GZ who is growing more suspicious and more ampted because he is convinced this is one of the youths. He think Trayvon has something in his hand.

Trayvon RUNS (misunderstanding) - why does he run? Is he afraid of GZ? Does he think GZ is a cop? Doesn't matter because now GZ is even more convinced that he is right. MO

Meanwhile the young teen had no idea what was happening in the neighborhood and saw a man watching him and seemed to be following him. He had no idea he fit the profile of the criminal teens. A misunderstanding came to ahead the youth believing he was being followed, the man believing he was looking at a criminal.

At one point on the call GZ loses TM. What happened next? How did they find each other again? Did Trayvon simply run and then come up behind GZ?

MO: The youth not knowing the man was armed confronted the man and knocked him to the ground the man not knowing the teen was not involved in the criminal acts fights the teen and becomes overtaken by who he believes is a criminal and he shoots him. The situation confusing and hysterical at that point. I heard the screams and they sound like GZ screaming for help. MO

What is the answer to what happened? Who was wrong? If GZ is right that he was being attacked, had he not had a gun and TM continued to beat him, would we care? or would this just go down in the neighborhood as another attack by a black youth?

Errors made by both. TM if he did have drugs in his system perhaps felt angry that he was being followed and did attack GZ, but in his ignorance did not expect to be shot and perhaps did not deserve to die over a few blows.

GZ should have called the police and stayed put, but did he know this was just some 17 year old kid who was visiting the neighborhood who currently was high and may lose his temper due to being followed?

GZ had a gun and may have invisioned some kind of citizens arrest, but it just did not go down that way.

MO - this is a huge tragedy and TM's parents at least do deserve to know what happened and the SYG law does not apply here. If GZ is claiming self defense then there needs to be a trial and a jury will decide. He should not get an automatic pass because of SYG - this is a life he took because of a misunderstanding, he should not have gone as far as he did and that needs to be investigated.

The MEDIA was wrong to make this about RACE.

MO

It's all they have, really. The crime is not heinous enough without racial profiling.

Unfortunately the media never put any emphasis on the fact that the dispatcher was sending a mixed message, at least GZ may have felt that way.

"which way is he running?" GZ has to think for a second, "toward the back entrance".

"Let me know if he does anything else." This may have given GZ the impression the dispatcher wanted GZ to keep an eye on him. The NW says one thing, but the police trump the neighborhood watch.

When the dispatcher realized GZ was following, he told him he didn't need to do that. GZ said Ok.

The media has never talked about the timeline, ever. Why not? Because anyone with common sense and remedial math skills would know that it does not take seven minutes to walk 100 yards.

Calling anyone who believes in due process, rather than emotional chaos, a racist, cheapens the term and cheapens their argument. JMO

stmarysmead
05-21-2012, 04:52 PM
The media and the lawyers looking for a payday have made this about race. It should be about a tragic death and WHAT and why it happened . Nothing more. The Brits, I beieve, allow nothing after a person haas been charged.

That is fair.

Ths media and PR campaign is a abomination to justice. And,it might just reult in a backlash that will complcate us ever knowing the truth. Or achieving justice for ANYONE.

gxm
05-21-2012, 04:55 PM
It's about $25 a month. If you can manage cable in your budget you can certainly manage a security system. That would have kept GZ plenty busy. And with that many condos I bet the HOA could have worked a deal with a local security company. It's not that expensive if you fear breakins. How much is your life worth??? If you can afford to live in a gated community, you can afford the extra security. Also your local police department can also tell you how to keep your home safe and it's not expensive. Charlie bars, locks on downstairs windows, etc. all of which are relatively inexpensive. jmo

We had a security system almost 10 years ago and it was twice that. I'm pretty sure that the system my DD has now is closer to $70/month. That's a significant amount of money for a family or individual on a budget.

stmarysmead
05-21-2012, 05:07 PM
Why should people , in these hard times, havev to spend money from their budget to protect themselves from crime?

Neighborhood Watch is an excellent concept...and it is based on watching strangers in one's neighborhood...particularly those who fit the demographic of THOSE committing the MOST crime.

If it is old Blond women, or bearded Amish guys in buggies..THAT is whom you watch. If it is Black teens....BINGO...you watch a stranger that fits that description.

It should insult NO ONE..if Neighborhood WAtches focus on Whomever is causing the problem in their area. There is no racism in statistics. This was a diverse neighborhood. ALL those good people just wanted to live in peace.

Would it have been "profiling" if the Condo Watch Captain were Black and watched TM that night? Must we examine statistics and choose someone of that race or ethnicity in order to avoid lawsuits and cries of profiling? " Okay, old White Men are terrorizing our Neighborhood. We need an old White Watch Captain?"

If the AA woman who said the "Elephant in the living Room was Black teenage crime in that area" was Watch Captain....would SHE have been "profiling" TM if she followed him?

What is the definition of "profiling?" these days?

Karmady
05-21-2012, 05:20 PM
If the court sealed her name we shouldn't be sleuthing her, should we? The point of keeping her name out is the exact reason we should not be trying to find out who she is. We shouldn't be sleuthing any witnesses who names are sealed that we don't already know. The judge sealed them for that very reason. He does not want outside interference that will influence their testimony or threats to them. jmo

I'm not sleuthing her. Apparently, the OP is the one with information about who she is. And I was very clear that my request was for information that she could share and w/o a name. If that information was obtained from sleuthing a minor and can't be shared here, why bring it up to suggest that others are ill-informed? jmo

stmarysmead
05-21-2012, 05:46 PM
I find this threat so ironic.For years and years and years MSM has helped vilify young black guys.IMO MSM has a lot to do with people profiling young black guys as criminals.In this case I have yet to see prove that young black guys were causing most of the crimes in the gated community.I think to realize that GZ was racial profiling is common sense to those of us who feel that way and none of us needed MSM or the Martins attorneys to point it out.I don't think MSM has influenced anyone in either direction in this case.
And what about blogs like "theconservativetreehouse"? Without prove of anything they claim to have discovered who the minor witness in this case is that is supposed to stay anonymous and everyone one is influenced by it and takes it as the truth.

I live in an area near a very poor White area. There is a lot of crime from young WHITE teens. It's a problem but it does not offend me to admit it. It has a lot to do with poverty and Fatherless homes. The reasons for crime are not about skin hue anymore than they are about eye color.

This is why I am offended by this "profiling"charge. Do you think that people n my area should have less awareness of White teens if that is statistically who is causing the majority of our problem? If my Black neighbor does me a favor by watching a White kid we do not know...is he a "profiler?" Can he be charged with a "hate crime" if something happens?

vlpate
05-21-2012, 07:37 PM
I find this threat so ironic.For years and years and years MSM has helped vilify young black guys.IMO MSM has a lot to do with people profiling young black guys as criminals.In this case I have yet to see prove that young black guys were causing most of the crimes in the gated community.
I find this incredible after almost 90 days of having this information at our fingertips.
I think to realize that GZ was racial profiling is common sense to those of us who feel that way and none of us needed MSM or the Martins attorneys to point it out.I don't think MSM has influenced anyone in either direction in this case.
Respectfully, I'm very honestly curious -- without MSM, Crump, or the Martins, how did you come to the conclusion this was a racially motivated shooting. TIA
And what about blogs like "theconservativetreehouse"? Without prove of anything they claim to have discovered who the minor witness in this case is that is supposed to stay anonymous and everyone one is influenced by it and takes it as the truth.
Blog sites are under no obligation to keep the minor witness anonymous, although I believe the one you mention did. This particular site has also gotten about 99% of this case right so far, and they do have proof of everything MSM ignores because it does not fit their bias.

JMO

stmarysmead
05-21-2012, 08:11 PM
It is easier to just repeat the same "charge" of profiling than give an intellectual rational reply as to why we should assume RACE, not CRIME caused GZ to be watched.

This is why I believe that GZ cannot get a fair trial.

claudicici
05-21-2012, 08:24 PM
I find this incredible after almost 90 days of having this information at our fingertips.
never saw anything convincing at all

Respectfully, I'm very honestly curious -- without MSM, Crump, or the Martins, how did you come to the conclusion this was a racially motivated shooting. TIA
the 911 call !!!!
Blog sites are under no obligation to keep the minor witness anonymous, although I believe the one you mention did. This particular site has also gotten about 99% of this case right so far, and they do have proof of everything MSM ignores because it does not fit their bias.
in who's opinion did they get 99% of the case right?

JMO
IMO jmo

vlpate
05-21-2012, 10:45 PM
IMO jmo

The burglary reports are facts not open to interpretation. All but one suspect were young black males.

LambChop
05-21-2012, 10:53 PM
It is easier to just repeat the same "charge" of profiling than give an intellectual rational reply as to why we should assume RACE, not CRIME caused GZ to be watched.

This is why I believe that GZ cannot get a fair trial.

There was no crime. There was only a young black male walking home. Where was the crime?? If GZ determined because TM was young, black, his clothes he was wearing, the way he was walking, etc. made him a suspect....that is profiling. That is the definition of profiling. You can't target someone as a suspect without any proof. Just being a young black male is not proof he was doing anything wrong. jmo

LambChop
05-21-2012, 10:55 PM
The burglary reports are facts not open to interpretation. All but one suspect were young black males.

Were these apprehended criminals or just suspected because there was a breakin and it was assumed they were black. How many were arrested? Do we know? jmo

stmarysmead
05-22-2012, 10:41 AM
Media overkill seems to be failing. New poll numbers show increases that favor GZ.

http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/lifestyle/general_lifestyle/may_2012/40_now_say_trayvon_martin_shot_in_self_defense_24_ say_it_was_murder

LambChop
05-22-2012, 10:56 AM
Media overkill seems to be failing. New poll numbers show increases that favor GZ.

http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/lifestyle/general_lifestyle/may_2012/40_now_say_trayvon_martin_shot_in_self_defense_24_ say_it_was_murder

I believe that is due to the discovery just released. With the witness statements is may appear to some it was self defense if they are not following this case closely. I believe that is good for the jury pool because it does show people are not following the case that closely. The higher the numbers the better because if or when GZ's statements are released it could change people's point of view. We have yet to see the State presenting the "inconsistencies" in GZ's statements. I also don't see the average person sitting down and doing a diagram regarding how TM was shot. I do see them listing to FT on these media shows and believing every word FT might have to say. All-in-all I think it's a good sign for seating a jury. jmo

stmarysmead
05-22-2012, 11:01 AM
I believe that is due to the discovery just released. With the witness statements is may appear to some it was self defense if they are not following this case closely. I believe that is good for the jury pool because it does show people are not following the case that closely. The higher the numbers the better because if or when GZ's statements are released it could change people's point of view. We have yet to see the State presenting the "inconsistencies" in GZ's statements. I also don't see the average person sitting down and doing a diagram regarding how TM was shot. I do see them listing to FT on these media shows and believing every word FT might have to say. All-in-all I think it's a good sign for seating a jury. jmo

I agree.

cityslick
05-22-2012, 11:16 AM
I believe that is due to the discovery just released. With the witness statements is may appear to some it was self defense if they are not following this case closely. I believe that is good for the jury pool because it does show people are not following the case that closely. The higher the numbers the better because if or when GZ's statements are released it could change people's point of view. We have yet to see the State presenting the "inconsistencies" in GZ's statements. I also don't see the average person sitting down and doing a diagram regarding how TM was shot. I do see them listing to FT on these media shows and believing every word FT might have to say. All-in-all I think it's a good sign for seating a jury. jmo

I'm now thinking they may not get released. I read an article where it said that a defendants 'confession' (as GZ admitted to shooting TM) is exempt from public record laws.

vlpate
05-22-2012, 11:57 AM
Media overkill seems to be failing. New poll numbers show increases that favor GZ.

http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/lifestyle/general_lifestyle/may_2012/40_now_say_trayvon_martin_shot_in_self_defense_24_ say_it_was_murder

When I first heard about this case on CNN, I would run and turn the TV down because I didn't want to hear that horrible monster murdering the little boy they were showing in the photos. Then I started reading here, and found the current pictures, read about both people and listened to the 911 call. It didn't take long to see, clearly, the media was up to their old tricks. When Sharpton joined in, all doubt was removed.

I actually posted a poll about a week ago that showed a high number now believing it was self defense, seems like it was prior to the document dump, but I'd have to look. I've never believed this was anything stronger than manslaughter, after the document dump, I'm convinced it was self defense. Watching the media completely ignore some of the key facts of the case, even now, is despicable. I hope heads roll when this is all over.

I find it amazing that 39% believe neighborhood watch should be allowed to carry a gun.

vlpate
05-22-2012, 11:59 AM
Were these apprehended criminals or just suspected because there was a breakin and it was assumed they were black. How many were arrested? Do we know? jmo

The reports are still online. Reading them answers all of the above.

JBean
05-22-2012, 01:20 PM
We have a local case here regarding the beating death of Kelly Thomas- a homeless, mentally ill man by Fullerton police because he was "resisting".This case also was basically unreported and ignored for a month before being brought to the public's attention by Kelly Thomas's father through the media.
There were protests ,demonstrations and a LOT of public outrage.Ultimately ended with the arrest of 2 officers who are going to trial-one for 2nd degree murder and one for manslaughter.
So does anyone think that the media influence can be a good thing to bring about change?

Interestingly and as an aside, the officer being charged with the highest crime is not the one that actually did the most beating,or the final blow or anything physically related to the man's death.
They are charging him because he set the wheels in motion for it all to happen. he created the opportunity for the other officers to beat him to death.

LambChop
05-22-2012, 01:49 PM
We have a local case here regarding the beating death of Kelly Thomas- a homeless, mentally ill man by Fullerton police because he was "resisting". (http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=171421)This case also was basically unreported and ignored for a month before being brought to the public's attention by Kelly Thomas's father through the media.
There were protests ,demonstrations and a LOT of public outrage.Ultimately ended with the arrest of 2 officers who are going to trial-one for 2nd degree murder and one for manslaughter.
So does anyone think that the media influence can be a good thing to bring about change?

Interestingly and as an aside, the officer being charged with the highest crime is not the one that actually did the most beating,or the final blow or anything physically related to the man's death.
They are charging him because he set the wheels in motion for it all to happen. he created the opportunity for the other officers to beat him to death.

Sort of like sharks. The first one was responsible for the drawing of the blood and the 20 or so other sharks showed up afterwards to finish the job in a feeding frenzy. I think the media is the only thing that will bring about change...one way or the other. jmo

LambChop
05-22-2012, 01:51 PM
When I first heard about this case on CNN, I would run and turn the TV down because I didn't want to hear that horrible monster murdering the little boy they were showing in the photos. Then I started reading here, and found the current pictures, read about both people and listened to the 911 call. It didn't take long to see, clearly, the media was up to their old tricks. When Sharpton joined in, all doubt was removed.

I actually posted a poll about a week ago that showed a high number now believing it was self defense, seems like it was prior to the document dump, but I'd have to look. I've never believed this was anything stronger than manslaughter, after the document dump, I'm convinced it was self defense. Watching the media completely ignore some of the key facts of the case, even now, is despicable. I hope heads roll when this is all over.

I find it amazing that 39% believe neighborhood watch should be allowed to carry a gun.

I wonder if they asked what percentage of those 39% own guns. lol

Karmady
05-22-2012, 03:18 PM
I happen to have a copy of the April 9 issue of People Magazine in front of me. Found it in my carry-on. I haven't re-read the whole article but this emphatic statement jumped out at me:

bbm~

"This much is indisputable: There were cries of 'Help,' then Zimmerman fired two bullets from a semiautomatic hand-gun, one of which fatally struck the teen in the chest."

stmarysmead
05-22-2012, 03:34 PM
We have a local case here regarding the beating death of Kelly Thomas- a homeless, mentally ill man by Fullerton police because he was "resisting". (http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=171421)This case also was basically unreported and ignored for a month before being brought to the public's attention by Kelly Thomas's father through the media.
There were protests ,demonstrations and a LOT of public outrage.Ultimately ended with the arrest of 2 officers who are going to trial-one for 2nd degree murder and one for manslaughter.
So does anyone think that the media influence can be a good thing to bring about change?

Interestingly and as an aside, the officer being charged with the highest crime is not the one that actually did the most beating,or the final blow or anything physically related to the man's death.
They are charging him because he set the wheels in motion for it all to happen. he created the opportunity for the other officers to beat him to death.

The problem presents when the media distorts and misrepresents because of its own biases. There is no innocent explanation for the editing of a 9-11 tape, the reporting of 2 shots, the use of a child's picture when the new video CLEARLY shows that TM had become a man. This is out right manipulation of a story. The media these days is most often shameless...but, of course, even "a stopped clock is right twice a day."

When one can choose an article almost every day from major media sources and find sloopiness/or pure malice in their reporting, that media becomes irrelevant. In is wonderful when we get to see the actual court docs and witness statements, etc...and do not have to rely on someone with an agenda to "fix" what we read to scam us into a false belief. Thank God the 911 tape was available for all to hear.

AJ Noiter
05-22-2012, 03:34 PM
There was no crime. There was only a young black male walking home. Where was the crime?? If GZ determined because TM was young, black, his clothes he was wearing, the way he was walking, etc. made him a suspect....that is profiling. That is the definition of profiling. You can't target someone as a suspect without any proof. Just being a young black male is not proof he was doing anything wrong. jmo


There was no crime. There was only a hispanic male going to Target. Where was the crime? If Mr. Zimmerman profiled, followed or even asked the individual a question, where is the crime? You can't target someone as a suspect without any proof. Just being a hispanic male on their way to Target, then stops to call 911, is not proof of doing anything wrong.

Both of these are logical fallacies. Just because one is white, black, asian, hispanic, etc doesn't mean they can not, or will not, commit a crime. Walking while black certainly isn't a crime, but assault certainly IS a crime and it doesn't matter the color of your skin. You punch someone in the nose for following you, that IS a crime.

LambChop
05-22-2012, 04:15 PM
There was no crime. There was only a hispanic male going to Target. Where was the crime? If Mr. Zimmerman profiled, followed or even asked the individual a question, where is the crime? You can't target someone as a suspect without any proof. Just being a hispanic male on their way to Target, then stops to call 911, is not proof of doing anything wrong.

Both of these are logical fallacies. Just because one is white, black, asian, hispanic, etc doesn't mean they can not, or will not, commit a crime. Walking while black certainly isn't a crime, but assault certainly IS a crime and it doesn't matter the color of your skin. You punch someone in the nose for following you, that IS a crime.

This is what was reported by media and a talk show where RZ, Sr. was a guest. According to RZ the reason GZ was following TM is because TM cut in between the houses (which would have been a common area) from the street instead of using the main gate. RZ said he did not use the sidewalk (thinking he meant the main street outside the gate) or the street. Since there are no sidewalks in that community at the front side of the homes there is only one place to walk and that would be the street. So TM's crime was cutting through that area off the main street which I think a lot of people would do if it were raining? I think all kids might do that instead of walking all the way down to the gate and more likely if it were raining (shortcut).

But wait how is it possible that GZ saw TM cutting through when he was parked on Twin Trees facing the clubhouse and was no where near that area. If he were on his way to the store how could he have seen TM cutting through that area when he was driving on Twin Trees and on his way out for milk? That area certainly isn't visible from his home. It would be visible from FT's home from the looks of the map we have viewed but certainly not GZ's. So how did GZ just happen to run into TM?

In order for TM to get by GZ's truck and continue his walk home he had to walk right past him in the street (no sidewalks) (he's comin to check me out).

Anyone, anyone could be guilty of a crime but common sense, logical people just do not run around looking at people as if they are about to commit a crime. It makes no sense when there was nothing, nothing GZ had to go on.

I would certainly hope most gun owners do not feel this way. That they are responsible, clear thinking individuals who know the difference between someone who calls LE and lets them do their job and a person who calls LE and then goes ahead and takes matters into their own hands. GZ had nothing, nothing in the way of evidence to prove TM was guilty of anything and yet he went after him. Why do we have police if we don't respect the law and how it is supposedly enforced? jmo

2goldfish
05-22-2012, 05:38 PM
It is easier to just repeat the same "charge" of profiling than give an intellectual rational reply as to why we should assume RACE, not CRIME caused GZ to be watched.

This is why I believe that GZ cannot get a fair trial.

ITA although I think we're on different sides of the fence...I deeply worry about high profile crimes in FL jmo moo imo much as I want to know I wish they'd stop talking about it til court.

2goldfish
05-22-2012, 05:42 PM
We have a local case here regarding the beating death of Kelly Thomas- a homeless, mentally ill man by Fullerton police because he was "resisting". (http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=171421)This case also was basically unreported and ignored for a month before being brought to the public's attention by Kelly Thomas's father through the media.
There were protests ,demonstrations and a LOT of public outrage.Ultimately ended with the arrest of 2 officers who are going to trial-one for 2nd degree murder and one for manslaughter.
So does anyone think that the media influence can be a good thing to bring about change?

Interestingly and as an aside, the officer being charged with the highest crime is not the one that actually did the most beating,or the final blow or anything physically related to the man's death.
They are charging him because he set the wheels in motion for it all to happen. he created the opportunity for the other officers to beat him to death.

oh man JB how can you do this to me :( I couldnt get through your OP in that thread without crying....I need a break from being human ...man sometimes I just dont get it.

2goldfish
05-22-2012, 05:57 PM
There was no crime. There was only a hispanic male going to Target. Where was the crime? If Mr. Zimmerman profiled, followed or even asked the individual a question, where is the crime? You can't target someone as a suspect without any proof. Just being a hispanic male on their way to Target, then stops to call 911, is not proof of doing anything wrong.

Both of these are logical fallacies. Just because one is white, black, asian, hispanic, etc doesn't mean they can not, or will not, commit a crime. Walking while black certainly isn't a crime, but assault certainly IS a crime and it doesn't matter the color of your skin. You punch someone in the nose for following you, that IS a crime.

second b is bbm

I dont know whether or not you've got kids, but if you do, and one is a daughter, what do you advise her to do if she's being following on a dark rainy night, perhaps after they grab her? do you tell him she should remain absolutely calm and obey everything s/he tells her to do? if not your daughter, are you a lady? what would YOU do? how about your mom, your sister? should they remain absolutely helpless, no matter what the follower wants of them?

I'm not trying to pick on you, I am genuinely curious. I cannot shake the feeling that perhaps some people would see this case a little differently if trayvon had been a female. would everyone blame him, if he were a her, for fighting back in the exact same situation?


eta: ok I am in the wrong thread with this, I cant bring myself to delete cause I spent this whole time writing it while both hubby and son are trying to tell me stupid jokes while I am still snivelling over another case I was reading about, I'm too dang proud I managed it.

AJ Noiter
05-22-2012, 06:11 PM
second b is bbm

I dont know whether or not you've got kids, but if you do, and one is a daughter, what do you advise her to do if she's being following on a dark rainy night, perhaps after they grab her? <snip>

Until they grab her, they have done nothing illegal - and I assure you, anyone who grabs a daughter of mine will wish they hadn't. As I can see from your example, you couldn't come up with a scenario that -only- involves following so I'm going to assume you're indirectly agreeing that following is not a crime.

HMSHood
05-22-2012, 09:43 PM
It is chilling when the Media chooses sides and clings on for dear life. As a veteran of another high profile Media Hoax, I can explain some of their "tricks."

Usually the side they choose is linked immediately to an historical metanarrative..often one that has great emotional resonance to a group of people. I am NOT disparaging these metanarratives or the historical reasons they exist. I'm pointing out that making an accusation of a crime FIT into old grievances, hurts and wrongs...helps the media begin its process of shaping a case and pre-convicting one side. To that end, the Duke hoax was immediately linked to the Metanarrative of White Men of Privilege raping poor Black women. This was referenced constantly. In this case, it is White Men killing innocent Blacks because of Profiling.

So now we bring all the anger at past profiling and racial disparity and we dump it on this Watch Captain in Florida. He can subsequently do no right in the media and the "victim" becomes immediately "perfect."

To that end, we need pictures. Let's take an old picture of a mean looking GZ and use that. OOPS cannot use any recent pictures of TM where he is pretending that Gang banger look...because the public will not embrace him if we do. So the media finds a picture of him at 13 years old...a CHILD'S picture...no stubble, no gold teeth...a child's picture. And a beautiful child who...yes, does look like a popular President.

So they use that old picture for weeks. This is NOT the face GZ saw that night...it's a child's face. But the Media is about building outrage. Profiling THIS innocent child? How ridiculous, readers fume. (including ME, at first.)

Now we constantly reference the Skittles....a child's treat. Later we hear this 17 year old has an illegal drug in his system but that is WELL after the image of a 13 year old child with Skittles is seared in the publics brain.

The media Image Making and linking to the emotional Metanarrative sets the stage.

Now the mechanics. Any unflattering info about TM must immediately be downplayed or ignored...the changing of schools in mid-year, the three suspensions, the Facebook page, how LONG till they are mentioned and in what context? Where is info placed...beneath a headline ravaging GZ...who has every possible grudge holder interviewed for dirt and reported with zeal. GZ is demonized...by cutting the 911 tape and running it cut many times...by denying his injuries...by finding an "expert" that identifies the screams as TM's...when we are never told that TM's FATHER SAID they were NOT his sons Screams.

Headlines are a tool as well. Today ABC has a headline :

WITNESS BELIEVES GM INTENDED TM TO DIE!!!!

http://abcnews.go.com/US/trayvon-martin-witness-believes-intended-kid-die/t/story?id=16380864

Read the article and you also see at the end that the WITNESS at the scene supports GZ's story AND has TM beating him with Martial Arts Style...but the Media LIKED this quote for a headline...to smear GZ some more...made by a woman who apparently thinks that GZ KNEW he was going to be beaten to a inch of his life and therefore premediated the whole deal. She suggests he could have shot a peson straddling him and beating him...in the LEG! Could someone explain exactly HOW to implement that? Maybe diagram the mechanics when someone is straddling you? That is so ridiculous and DUMB that it is appalling that this is considered relevant at all. That "witness" is giving a NON FACTUAL OPINION that no one can PROVE...but it is the Big Headine. Why? Because the media knows many folks just SCAN headlines and do not actually read. So this headline feeds anger...makes it harder for GZ to get a fair trial. And many will never READ the full context of this Witness' statement at all. Mission of fomenting more hate...ACCOMPLISHED!

Which is the whole idea...because the Media has chosen "a side" before they know the evidence. In fact they are CREATING False evidence to inflame potential jurors and force weak political DAs to file weak cases the Law does not support. Nifong. Corey. Placating public opinion first and foremost. Public opinion fueled by a rabid biased press...inciting for Mob justice. Based on their often later proven FALSE evidence. You cannot unring a Bell.

And if Race is part of the case...The Media is glad to use that to infuriate as well. Subsequently, we have the media reporting on racial slurs that later , much later...they admit were never spoken. That is RECKLESS. Knowing the implications, the hurt, THAT CHARGE should never be made unless it is 100 SOLID. But the Media is like excited gossipy Neighbors...OMG...OMG ...say anything then check it later!!


They initally call GZ "White"....to fit the Metanarrative of "Whites Killing Blacks Because of Profiling"....then when GZ's heritage is unfortunately MIXED...they invent the term "White Hispanic." Then, horrors, he has Black Heritage, Black friends, has mentored Black children. But this is DOWNPLAYED. Instead, the Congressional Black Caucus is interviewed for quotes about TM being "shot like a dog." etc. This is all part of making this case so RACIAL...that defending GZ in any manner makes one a RACIST. This is a useful "Shut-UP" tool that the media uses. If you don't see Crystal Mangum as Sister Survivor raped by three White Men of Privilege JUST BECAUSE she has no LAX DNA and every orifice is chock full of OTHER male DNA...then you are a RACIST! Or you hate women and love rape!

This is terribly unfair. It is possible to respect folks of all races but base one's opinons on FACT not emotion or allegiance. A Black friend who says GZ is not a racist should be allowed to speak and shown the same respect by the media...as any of us would wish. It takes bravery.

If you read about GZ's injuries, read the Law and say, as Harvard Professor Dershowitz says...there should never have been charges...the editorials and media spin is that you are racist, or a gun-nut. How do they do this....by quoting in articles "experts" who analyze people who do not agree with them...as possessing these evil qualities. How many of these erroneous emotional "quotes" are ever retracted or corrected by the Media in later articles? Have you seen articles about the exaggerations made by these Congresspeople about this case? Why not? Does the Media have no responsibility to the truth?

Once the Media sets the hysteria going...witness statements change. The young boy who saw G on top is "corrected" by his Mother. Dad "corrects" whose voice he heard screaming. Because it becomes scary to oppose the Media in full outrage. Then they report death threats by the Black Panthers and our Government tolerates those threats. Gee, any witness, any reader...now gets the point to shut up or go with the Media Mob.

Of couse, we have the Entertainment Ghouls...who exploit these tragedies for ratings...another "media." How often they show their ignorance of the evidence is STUNNING. But they feel NO OBLIGATION to be INFORMED. They exist to pander emotion...push hatred...convict in the public's mind before trial. It is a barbaric profession. Lawyers who go on TV and push slander, lies and misinformation for RATINGS and personal enrichment. And they are quoted as if they are "serious media." Remember NG's wailing about how the Duke accusers fingernails were brutally ripped off?

Lee press on nails. She did her nails in the bathroom...the OTHER stripper testified to that.

Now we have an array of disgruntled old girlfriends, Middle Easterner work associates...blah, blah. The Media takes their every word as GOSPEL...they are the embodiments of perfect truth. No one who smears GZ could ever be lying, have an agenda or a grudge. After all, it's only those who SUPPORT GZ who MUST be liars, racists, or all of the above.

We live in an age where Media credibility is near ZERO...but we love to believe them when their VENDETTAS fit our opinions.

You can't trust the media. I remember the Duke Lacrosse case and that fell apart fast.

HMSHood
05-22-2012, 09:48 PM
Is this a new precedence in a new media stategy. Having the grieving parents go on the road WITH THE LAWYER ...pre-trial? And then friendly media write emotional fury-inducing articles?

Maybe the parents of Eve Carson who truly WAS shot in the street like a dog should have made the national rounds pre-trial of her killers? And the Channon/Newsome families? This is justice now in America?

Should we make this a new media PRE TRial norm.

You can delete this but it is SHAMEFUL. Raise money AFTER trial and report about it then.

You're right. Some people choose to go on road with lawyers and some don't. That can be said about father and relatives of Shaniya Davis. She was sold to sex slavery by her own mother, Antoinette Davis, and raped and murdered by Mario McNeil. That case is truly sickening and I don't hear much of it. Frankly, I think it deserved much attention as Casey Anthony because it so atrocious.

rossva
05-22-2012, 10:19 PM
BBM Let's take your theroy one step further. If you can afford to live in a gate community (even temporarily) you can afford extra security. Perhaps young Martin should have paid to have an armed security escort with him everywhere he went. It is just as unreasonable to say that as it is to suggest if the residents had alarm systems they wouldn't need a Citizens Watch. and therefore, no George Zimmerman as watch capitan.



It's about $25 a month. If you can manage cable in your budget you can certainly manage a security system. That would have kept GZ plenty busy. And with that many condos I bet the HOA could have worked a deal with a local security company. It's not that expensive if you fear breakins. How much is your life worth??? If you can afford to live in a gated community, you can afford the extra security. Also your local police department can also tell you how to keep your home safe and it's not expensive. Charlie bars, locks on downstairs windows, etc. all of which are relatively inexpensive. jmo

Dr.Fessel
05-22-2012, 10:46 PM
You can't trust the media. I remember the Duke Lacrosse case and that fell apart fast.I never followed that just remember dancers and players and the media took a beating on it.

LambChop
05-22-2012, 11:02 PM
BBM Let's take your theroy one step further. If you can afford to live in a gate community (even temporarily) you can afford extra security. Perhaps young Martin should have paid to have an armed security escort with him everywhere he went. It is just as unreasonable to say that as it is to suggest if the residents had alarm systems they wouldn't need a Citizens Watch. and therefore, no George Zimmerman as watch capitan.

Right. That is why all police department's have and have had for many, many, many years a crime prevention unit that tells you to do this same exact thing. Officer McDuff.....take a bite out of crime. LE will tell you exactly how to protect yourself WITHOUT a gun. All you have to do is ask. Their suggestions are not expensive and most households could afford to take these extra precautions. It's not a theory it's a fact. You just have to be responsible enough to find out how to protect yourself. And I know LE is more than willing to help. My husband was also a crime prevention officer for a couple of years and lectured home owners on what to do to keep their homes safe from breakins in a city that had a high crime rate. And young Martin needing an arm escort to walk him home would put us back about 200 years, wouldn't it now? They never needed GZ, ever, and IMO it is unreasonable to think so. jmo

stmarysmead
05-23-2012, 07:20 AM
I never followed that just remember dancers and players and the media took a beating on it.

As the media Should have. For months they and DA Nifong insisted there was a strong case against the players. It became a case about race as much as rape. Because of the terribly inciteful reporting, the Naacp, Jesse Jackson, The Black Panthers, all became involved. The police chief tok a leave of absence. Witness statements began to change to favor prosecution. When a Black cab driver refused to lie after giving one of the accused an alibi, Nifong put him on trial for shoplifting. Thank God he was acquitted. He received a Hero of the Year award from Readers Digest.

Many see similarities to things in this case... "the DA must have SOMETHING," when the cae looked weak...the Racial sensitivites, the Media hysteria, and many of the same figures including the Black Panthers involving themselves.

in the end,it was shown that Nifong withheld exculpatory DNA evidence. Crystal Mangum had DNA in every orifice and on her underwear from numerous other men but nothing from any LAX player. Nifong was disbarred.

Mangum now sits in jail on charge of murder. A Black man who took her in after her trial for setting an arson fire in another man's home...is dead.

Many people knew of her previous mental and substance abuse problems, but she was portrayed as perfect for a long while..." Sister Survivor. " She had to be peect and the LAX players EVIL. No middle ground.
Yes, it's a different case. But there are strong similarities in the way the media emphasized the racial aspect of the case to incite hatred before the facts/evidence were known. There is a lesson of caution to be learned from that. ALso lessons about the pressure Media can bring on a DA to go forward with a weak or non existant case.

2goldfish
05-23-2012, 07:50 AM
Until they grab her, they have done nothing illegal - and I assure you, anyone who grabs a daughter of mine will wish they hadn't. As I can see from your example, you couldn't come up with a scenario that -only- involves following so I'm going to assume you're indirectly agreeing that following is not a crime.

dont assume that, my friend, while I understand that legally it is not a crime, I absolutely believe it is the wrong thing to do on pretty much all occasions. I am uncertain if you answered my question but I agree of course on your reaction to your daughter being grabbed - I hope you feel the same for a son if you have one/some ;)

what you might have inferred is that it is my belief that GZ grabbed trayvon to detain him - which is not legal AFAIK. he did not see him committing a crime where I think that detaining someone in that case is generally accepted?

I just think if trayvon was female we would not be seeing such disagreements in here - I think most people would assume a female cant possibly be an agressor, whereas a black male almost certainly is. I am not saying YOU think that, I am saying that as I read things across the web, I strongly think that people have their idea of "female being followed (etc)" and "black male being followed (etc)", it creates different storylines in people's heads. come on, look at all the fights in these threads about whether or not GZ was racially profiling (I personally see no evidence that he was) would you be hearing any such thing if it was a woman or girl, even regardless of race? my guess is probably not - although if the theoretical girl/woman in question was overweight, obviously mentally ill, obviously drunk etc, we'd see similar victim blaming. it's all over WS in many, many cases...people have their prejudices whether they know it or not.


forgive typos, insomnia week.

K_Z
05-23-2012, 11:34 AM
It is easier to just repeat the same "charge" of profiling than give an intellectual rational reply as to why we should assume RACE, not CRIME caused GZ to be watched.

This is why I believe that GZ cannot get a fair trial.

Intellectual curiosity and rational thinking are rarely sought after qualities in potential jurors for high profile cases. By either prosecutors or defense attorneys. IMO.

The influence of MSM coverage cannot be underestimated on the pool of potential jurors.

I think the trial can be fair, but the juries are never a true representative slice of society in high profile cases that the trial will go on for weeks (or months). The higher the profile of the case, the more that publicity skews who is available and willing to serve on the jury. And clearly, some of those people have agendas that have been heavily influened by the MSM coverage of the case. (The simple fact of being employed often produces dismissal, as jurors are not required to endure financial hardship for service.)

And then there are considerations such as "racial balance" of the jury-- also heavily commented on by the MSM. In the Casey Anthony case we saw the defense play the "racial balance" card when the prosecution dismissed a woman juror candidate who clearly and repeatedly said she could not "judge" another person. The woman is black, and the defense protested that he believed that the reason the juror was dismissed was due to race, and at that point there were not AA's on the jury. The judge agreed, and the woman was seated.

zenreaper
05-23-2012, 11:42 AM
dont assume that, my friend, while I understand that legally it is not a crime, I absolutely believe it is the wrong thing to do on pretty much all occasions. I am uncertain if you answered my question but I agree of course on your reaction to your daughter being grabbed - I hope you feel the same for a son if you have one/some ;)

what you might have inferred is that it is my belief that GZ grabbed trayvon to detain him - which is not legal AFAIK. he did not see him committing a crime where I think that detaining someone in that case is generally accepted?

I just think if trayvon was female we would not be seeing such disagreements in here - I think most people would assume a female cant possibly be an agressor, whereas a black male almost certainly is. I am not saying YOU think that, I am saying that as I read things across the web, I strongly think that people have their idea of "female being followed (etc)" and "black male being followed (etc)", it creates different storylines in people's heads. come on, look at all the fights in these threads about whether or not GZ was racially profiling (I personally see no evidence that he was) would you be hearing any such thing if it was a woman or girl, even regardless of race? my guess is probably not - although if the theoretical girl/woman in question was overweight, obviously mentally ill, obviously drunk etc, we'd see similar victim blaming. it's all over WS in many, many cases...people have their prejudices whether they know it or not.


forgive typos, insomnia week.

If you believe GZ attempted to "detain" TM, how do you think that occured and what evidence are you using to justify it? I am serious, did he grab his clothing, because that would have, problany, left abrasions on where the clothing tightened, and there were none. It would have caused stretching of the material, of which there were none reported. If GZ grabbed TM by, say, an ARM, there would have been finger marks, etc.

I have seen a few people theorize that GZ grabbed TM, and TM defended himself. I really am curious as to what evidence leads you and they to that theory.

gxm
05-23-2012, 11:57 AM
dont assume that, my friend, while I understand that legally it is not a crime, I absolutely believe it is the wrong thing to do on pretty much all occasions. I am uncertain if you answered my question but I agree of course on your reaction to your daughter being grabbed - I hope you feel the same for a son if you have one/some ;)

what you might have inferred is that it is my belief that GZ grabbed trayvon to detain him - which is not legal AFAIK. he did not see him committing a crime where I think that detaining someone in that case is generally accepted?

I just think if trayvon was female we would not be seeing such disagreements in here - I think most people would assume a female cant possibly be an agressor, whereas a black male almost certainly is. I am not saying YOU think that, I am saying that as I read things across the web, I strongly think that people have their idea of "female being followed (etc)" and "black male being followed (etc)", it creates different storylines in people's heads. come on, look at all the fights in these threads about whether or not GZ was racially profiling (I personally see no evidence that he was) would you be hearing any such thing if it was a woman or girl, even regardless of race? my guess is probably not - although if the theoretical girl/woman in question was overweight, obviously mentally ill, obviously drunk etc, we'd see similar victim blaming. it's all over WS in many, many cases...people have their prejudices whether they know it or not.


forgive typos, insomnia week.

BBM. I disagree. If there were witnesses to a young woman on top of GZ beating him, then I think most people would agree that she was the aggressor. IMO, this has nothing to do with TM's race (or gender). It has to do with witnesses who saw him beating GZ while GZ was on the ground screaming for help.

Hope this isn't OT but there was a case a while back where two women confronted a fast food clerk (one slapped him, the other did not). The clerk beat them both with a metal rod even after they were clearly on the ground and screaming (heard in the videotape) for help. One of the young women has possible brain damage because of the beating. IIRC, I was the only commenter who felt the clerk was in the wrong. The vast majority of commenters felt the two young woman got what they deserved.

JMO, OMO, and MOO

Florida Native
05-23-2012, 12:53 PM
It's all they have, really. The crime is not heinous enough without racial profiling.

Unfortunately the media never put any emphasis on the fact that the dispatcher was sending a mixed message, at least GZ may have felt that way.

"which way is he running?" GZ has to think for a second, "toward the back entrance".

"Let me know if he does anything else." This may have given GZ the impression the dispatcher wanted GZ to keep an eye on him. The NW says one thing, but the police trump the neighborhood watch.

When the dispatcher realized GZ was following, he told him he didn't need to do that. GZ said Ok.

The media has never talked about the timeline, ever. Why not? Because anyone with common sense and remedial math skills would know that it does not take seven minutes to walk 100 yards.

Calling anyone who believes in due process, rather than emotional chaos, a racist, cheapens the term and cheapens their argument. JMO

I agree with your entire post but especially the part I bolded.

2goldfish
05-23-2012, 02:37 PM
If you believe GZ attempted to "detain" TM, how do you think that occured and what evidence are you using to justify it? I am serious, did he grab his clothing, because that would have, problany, left abrasions on where the clothing tightened, and there were none. It would have caused stretching of the material, of which there were none reported. If GZ grabbed TM by, say, an ARM, there would have been finger marks, etc.

I have seen a few people theorize that GZ grabbed TM, and TM defended himself. I really am curious as to what evidence leads you and they to that theory.


I am basing it on my life experience, partly, which obviously accounts for nothing but my opinion, and basing it on the gf's statement that the last thing she heard was "get off, get off". if trayvon then struck out I frankly cannot see how anyone could blame him.

stretching when pulled? heaven help me, I have a 5 year old that hangs off me all day long...I *tell* him to stop or it will pull my clothes out of shape, but so far, not a once, regardless of fabric....yet I continue to tell him this, perhaps I shall direct him to your post :D (kids never listen to their mothers!!)

2goldfish
05-23-2012, 02:43 PM
BBM. I disagree. If there were witnesses to a young woman on top of GZ beating him, then I think most people would agree that she was the aggressor. IMO, this has nothing to do with TM's race (or gender). It has to do with witnesses who saw him beating GZ while GZ was on the ground screaming for help.

Hope this isn't OT but there was a case a while back where two women confronted a fast food clerk (one slapped him, the other did not). The clerk beat them both with a metal rod even after they were clearly on the ground and screaming (heard in the videotape) for help. One of the young women has possible brain damage because of the beating. IIRC, I was the only commenter who felt the clerk was in the wrong. The vast majority of commenters felt the two young woman got what they deserved.

JMO, OMO, and MOO


first bbm: I disagree, I think with ALL THINGS BEING IDENTICAL if GZ had followed a female instead of a male, after GZ followed the theoretical female who then ended up winning, she's be championed if not shot and martyred if shot. there's be none of this "it's not a crime to follow someone!! obviously GZ feared for his life!" etc JMO IMO MOO etc ..that's what I am saying, no one at all is claming that I know of that GZ was happily in his vehicle and trayvon busted a window to get at his innocent <modsnip>. I think we pretty much all agree that if GZ stayed in the vehicle none of this would have happened - it's what happened once the confrontation began that we cant all agree on - I get that we all disagree whether he should have obeyed the dispather and what not.

second bbm: I remember that case, I read it in dailymail not on here I think; I agree with you, the clerk was in the wrong.

AJ Noiter
05-23-2012, 04:00 PM
dont assume that, my friend, while I understand that legally it is not a crime, I absolutely believe it is the wrong thing to do on pretty much all occasions. I am uncertain if you answered my question but I agree of course on your reaction to your daughter being grabbed - I hope you feel the same for a son if you have one/some ;)

what you might have inferred is that it is my belief that GZ grabbed trayvon to detain him - which is not legal AFAIK. he did not see him committing a crime where I think that detaining someone in that case is generally accepted?

I just think if trayvon was female we would not be seeing such disagreements in here - I think most people would assume a female cant possibly be an agressor, whereas a black male almost certainly is. I am not saying YOU think that, I am saying that as I read things across the web, I strongly think that people have their idea of "female being followed (etc)" and "black male being followed (etc)", it creates different storylines in people's heads. come on, look at all the fights in these threads about whether or not GZ was racially profiling (I personally see no evidence that he was) would you be hearing any such thing if it was a woman or girl, even regardless of race? my guess is probably not - although if the theoretical girl/woman in question was overweight, obviously mentally ill, obviously drunk etc, we'd see similar victim blaming. it's all over WS in many, many cases...people have their prejudices whether they know it or not.


forgive typos, insomnia week.

And then there are times where following is absolutely necessary. For example, one night the closest store to my house was closed. It was a nice night so I decided to walk a mile to the next closest store. On my way back a young lady was getting off work at Kentucky Fried Chicken and I "followed" her for about 5 blocks before she had to stop at a busy intersection. When I caught up I informed her that I didn't mean to scare her and we continued our walk while talking back and forth. In this scenario I was already walking the direction I was - was I to change my path simply because someone started walking 20ft in front of me? Should I be tossed in jail because I followed someone?

I haven't seen any proof that Mr. Zimmerman grabbed Mr. Martin. Not even the "girlfriend's" story says that he did, and that would be the closest I've seen.

You can give me any scenario you like, white male following hispanic female, hispanic female following black male, etc. The race and sex do not matter. Following is not a crime.

LambChop
05-23-2012, 08:21 PM
And then there are times where following is absolutely necessary. For example, one night the closest store to my house was closed. It was a nice night so I decided to walk a mile to the next closest store. On my way back a young lady was getting off work at Kentucky Fried Chicken and I "followed" her for about 5 blocks before she had to stop at a busy intersection. When I caught up I informed her that I didn't mean to scare her and we continued our walk while talking back and forth. In this scenario I was already walking the direction I was - was I to change my path simply because someone started walking 20ft in front of me? Should I be tossed in jail because I followed someone?

I haven't seen any proof that Mr. Zimmerman grabbed Mr. Martin. Not even the "girlfriend's" story says that he did, and that would be the closest I've seen.

You can give me any scenario you like, white male following hispanic female, hispanic female following black male, etc. The race and sex do not matter. Following is not a crime.

But the difference is you were not looking at her as if she were a criminal, which GZ clearly was. Staring at TM as he passed his vehicle and complaining the TM was doing the same. TM had already made visual contact GZ and we know that did not go well by GZ's description to LE. GZ had already made the decision that TM was a criminal.

We are off topic but let me say one thing GZ did not want TM to get away and that is why he went after him. The motivation was to keep TM from getting away, to stop TM. Why would TM care about GZ? He was just some crazy white man.

While you may think you did not scare this woman who is to say she did not have a small gun in her pocket and that is why she was not afraid of you. It's a natural instinct to be afraid of people who do not smile at you and give you dirty looks and the follow you for god knows what reason.

It also was how Mr. Bundy got a lot of his victims. Being Mr. Nice Guy. "Stranger danger" they teach it to the kids in school. Bet TM took one of those classes. jmo