Ramsey Friend, Member of "Small Foreign Faction", Was Never Investigated

[BlueCrab]

The Boulder Police Department failed to investigate, nor did they even know about, a Ramsey family friend who belonged to a suspicious foreign-oriented organization. The friend regularly provided care for JonBenet Ramsey, the six-year-old pageant beauty queen murdered on Christmas night of 1996 in Boulder, Colorado.

The perpetrators of the brutal rape, murder, and possible torture of JonBenet had left a three-page ransom note in the Ramsey house in which they identified themselves as representing a "small foreign faction". The murder has gone unsolved, with no viable suspects.

However, it has been learned that Colorado University student Nathan Inouye, who was a member of what would be considered a "small foreign faction", regularly baby-sat and drove JonBenet to school in 1996. Inouye belonged to the 29-member Asian Pacific American Coalition, called APAC, at Colorado University in Boulder.

APAC at Colorado was a liberal pro-active group of students who suspiciously disbanded their campus organization just weeks after JonBenet was murdered. APAC's stated goals were to advance the social and political well-being of Asian Americans. However, among the organization's concerns was its perception that violence and other serious crimes, including rape and murder, against Asian-American women were going unsolved and unpunished in the U.S.

For example, in reporting its list of activities and accomplishments to the University for the year of 1996, it wrote "Later that year APAC held a day of rememberance for Thingh Minh Lyh, a Vietnamese student in California who was a victim of racial violence. APAC members wore and passed out gray ribbons, and passed out flyers which described the incident."

Nathan Inouye, who in 1996 lived at the home of Glen and Susan Stine, had been hired by the Stines to provide care for their son Doug while the parents worked. The Stines, who were close friends of the Ramseys, were employed at Colorado University -- Glen as vice president, and Susan as a director. Their son Doug and Burke Ramsey, JonBenet's older brother, were also best friends. The Stines and the Ramseys lived five blocks apart in the upscale neighborhood and both houses were within walking distance of the University.

Inouye regularly helped baby-sit the Ramsey children, especially when the parents were out of town. He also regularly drove nine-year-old Doug, nine-year-old Burke, and six-year-old JonBenet to school as part of a carpool which included taking turns driving among the two mothers and himself.

Nevertheless, and despite what it called a thorough investigation of possible suspects not living in the Ramsey's house following the 1996 murder of JonBenet, the Boulder police, at least as of the year 2000, had apparently never even heard of Nathan Inouye nor the Asian Pacific American Coalition. These allegations are substantiated by the questions and responses between the Ramseys and a team of law enforcement investigators sent from Colorado to Georgia to interview the Ramseys in Atlanta in August of 2000. The Ramseys had moved to Atlanta in 1997.

In the offices of Ramsey attorney Lin Wood on August 28 and 29, the following discussion occurred with Patsy Ramsey:

DETECTIVE JANE HARMER (asking about the name "Nathan" mentioned in the Ramseys book "Death of Innocence"): "You mention a kid by the name of Nathan that was living with the Stines. Was he living with them prior to December of '96?"

PATSY RAMSEY: "Yes, he was."

DETECTIVE HARMER: "And at any time did he look after Burke or JonBenet?"

PATSY RAMSEY: "He would, on occasion, take them to school in the morning."

DETECTIVE HARMER: "Do you know anything more about him, his last name?"

PATSY RAMSEY: "Inouye, Nathan Inouye."

DETECTIVE HARMER: "Do you know how to spell that?"

PATSY RAMSEY: "I-N-O-U -- maybe Y-E or E."

DETECTIVE HARMER: "Is he a white male?"

PATSY RAMSEY: "He is an American, but of Japanese descent, I believe."

DETECTIVE HARMER: "How old is he?"

PATSY RAMSEY: "He has graduated now and is doing missionary work, I think. Susan would know exactly where he is, but at that time he was a college junior or senior."

ATTORNEY BRUCE LEVIN: "Mr. Wood, can you facilitate getting the information to us so we can contact him?"

ATTORNEY LIN WOOD: "I think we said yesterday, if you all make a hit list for me, so to speak, point by point what you want me to do, and we will do it."

DETECTIVE HARMER: "That is it."

John Ramsey's interview on August 29 immediately followed Patsy Ramsey's interview:

ATTORNEY BRUCE LEVIN: "Mr. Ramsey, your wife told us that there was a college student that was staying with the Stines, I believe, named Nathan Inouye?"

ATTORNEY LIN WOOD: "It was a reference in the book."

ATTORNEY BRUCE LEVIN: "Okay. Had you, prior to the murder of your daughter, had you any contact with him?"

JOHN RAMSEY: "Yeah. We would see him at their house. He would drive the kids to school occasionally in a carpool. Patsy would take them, sometimes Susan would, or Nathan would take them."

ATTORNEY BRUCE LEVIN: "Was there anything unusual about his conduct -- and I am asking for your contemporaneous impression, and then I'm going to ask you about the post-murder impression. Your contemporaneous impression of Mr. Inouye I assume was favorable if you let him drive your kids to school?"

JOHN RAMSEY: "Yes. He was a very, very kind, nice person."

ATTORNEY BRUCE LEVIN: "Keeping in mind you told us that you are suspicious of everyone, is there anything in particular about Mr. Inouye, using the power of hindsight, that causes you today to be particularly suspicious of him?"

JOHN RAMSEY: "Nothing specifically in terms of his actions or what he said. Have I eliminated him? No, I haven't. I thought about that from time to time, but I don't consider him of strong, strong interest."

When Patsy Ramsey, during her interview, mentioned that Nathan Inouye had graduated and is doing "missionary work", he was actually serving as an "environmental promoter" in Kingston, Jamaica as a member of the Peace Corps. After serving in the Peace Corps from 1999 to 2001, Inouye completed graduate work at UCLA in 2003 to get a secondary science teaching certificate and a masters in education. Inouye is now teaching science at a high school in California, his home state.

JMO

BlueCrab

[DocWatson]

BlueCrab,
Say it ain't so! You're back on NATHAN???????????????????????????????????????
Jeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeezzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz zzzzzzzzzz!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

1. Opportunity: To make this theory credible, you have to demonstrate that Nathan was in Boulder during Xmas 1996. You are well aware that his own self-report is that he was in California with his family, as well might be expected of a college student during a Xmas break (indeed NOT being home would be pretty unusual). You have provided no such evidence.

2. Motive: You haven't offered any credible explanation for why APAC would wish to either kidnap or murder JBR. Was JR secretly raping Asian-American students at CU? Being concerned about rape/violence against Asian-American women doesn't strike me as particularly sinister. On any large university campus there will be any number of activist student groups engaged in battling this and other perceived injustices of the world. That's what college kids do! Where is your evidence that APAC ever resorted to violence to achieve its objectives? What motivation do they have for penning a RN alluding to a kidnapping and demanding ransom, but then turning around and killing JBR instead? Exactly what political objective did that achieve? Ever notice that when Mideast terrorists capture someone and behead them, they exhibit no hesitation in announcing who they are since the whole point is to terrorize people and get them to fear the organization responsible and listen more seriously to their demands in the future etc. We see ZERO evidence of that behavior in this case.

Moreover, if the motivation was political, how do you explain all the sexual aspects of the crime? Given that Nathan presumably must have easily known John was worth quite a bit (his peers may not have paid attention to the billion dollar sales story about Access Graphics, but if you're driving around the kids of that CEO, it seems improbable you wouldn't take notice), why ask for only $118,000? Wouldn't the political objectives of this group been WAY better served by collecting the $118,000 or a much much higher amount (millions)?

3. Means: did Nathan sneak into the house or was he invited? If invited and he committed this crime, why didn't Burke or the parents rat him out? If uninvited, why select a time when the parents were home? It sounds as if he had plenty of less risky opportunities to snatch JBR, e.g., in the course of car-pooling he could have offered to take the boys down to the mall to play video games and had pretty unlimited access to her. This gets back to motivation. If it's only to commit a kidnapping, there's much easier ways to do this than a B&E in which you're taking a gamble of being seen/caught by a neighbor or even shot by John (would Nathan know that house SO well that he could be certain John had no gun hidden?).

From where I sit, this theory massively fails the "sniff test." Until you can establish means, motive AND opportunity, this theory will go nowhere fast.

Oh yeah, APAC disbanded in spring 1997 (their site was last updated April 14, 1997: http://ucsu.colorado.edu/%7Eapac/Home.html), not just "weeks" after JBR died. For a student group whose members were about to graduate, this is hardly an illogical to disband. I encourage everyone to look hard at the activities and photos at this site and see if you see anything remotely sinister about it. Then recall what John and Patsy kept saying even though pressed about whether there was anything about Nathan that would give him pause: there was NOTHING! In light of all this countervailing evidence, why would BlueCrab trot out such a theory?

[BlueCrab]

DocWatson,

What makes you think I think that Nathan Inouye is the killer in this theory?

He could be the killer, of course, but there were 29 members in APAC and Nathan was more than likely only the link between the privileged Ramseys and the liberal pro-active APAC members. NONE of them were investigated. Any one of them could have been a loose cannon eager to make a political statement by denigrating a rich white child beauty queen with a high profile in the community and a father whose name and picture was just in the news.

Yes, I agree with you that the evidence is skimpy, but that's because there was NO INVESTIGATION. That's the point of this thread. Nevertheless, the solid link between JonBenet and APAC exists, and IMO there's enough evidence to justify further investigation.

JMO

[DocWatson]

DocWatson,

What makes you think I think that Nathan Inouye is the killer in this theory?

He could be the killer, of course, but there were 29 members in APAC and Nathan was more than likely only the link between the privileged Ramseys and the liberal pro-active APAC members. NONE of them were investigated. Any one of them could have been a loose cannon eager to make a political statement by denigrating a rich white child beauty queen with a high profile in the community and a father whose name and picture was just in the news.

Yes, I agree with you that the evidence is skimpy, but that's because there was NO INVESTIGATION. That's the point of this thread. Nevertheless, the solid link between JonBenet and APAC exists, and IMO there's enough evidence to justify further investigation.

JMO
I'll freely concede I don't know the first thing about police investigations and perhaps they really do explore leads this weak. But the reality is, you haven't made a solid connection between JBR and APAC. The connection to APAC is derivative: it's a function of Nathan being a member. According to this theory, literally any acquaintance of Nathan's would count, or to draw more parallel analogy, police could investigate anyone who was a member of any club/organization/association that was somehow connected to anyone who had regular access to the Ramsey house (e.g., the postman, other delivery people, gardeners, contractors etc.). So if the mailman was a member of Rotary International (!!!), then the police, in your view, would have just cause to query everyone in Rotary and demand that they provide an alibi for Christmas night 1996. Does that sound even remotely reasonable to you?

The reality is that if any of the other 28 students demanded to know why they were being questioned, all the police could really offer was "well you knew Nathan Inouye, didn't you?" I pray that our civil liberties these days aren't that fragile that we've given the police that much leeway to do their business. Unless some reasonable grounds exist for suspicion (and I don't think knowing Nathan really qualifies), I would hope that the law would view questioning such remotely-connected individuals as beyond reason. Is there some lawyer on the boards who might confirm what's plausible here?

[aRnd2it]

Yes, I agree with you that the evidence is skimpy, but that's because there was NO INVESTIGATION.
You don't know that BlueCrab. The same as you don't know what Beckner has that disproves the stun gun, this information has never been released or leaked to the public. They might have completely investigated this kid and his cronies.

[Nehemiah]

BC, I think you make some very good points about APAC and the possibility of someone meeting or having knowledge of the Ramseys through Nathan. JAR was a student at CU himself, and the possibility exists that a friend/acquaintance of his (possibly thru Nathan) is the perp. I personally believe that the perp is someone very familiar with the house and grounds and someone who felt a degree of comfort inside the home, but hey....stranger things have happened.

[BlueCrab]

I'll freely concede I don't know the first thing about police investigations and perhaps they really do explore leads this weak. But the reality is, you haven't made a solid connection between JBR and APAC. The connection to APAC is derivative: it's a function of Nathan being a member. According to this theory, literally any acquaintance of Nathan's would count, or to draw more parallel analogy, police could investigate anyone who was a member of any club/organization/association that was somehow connected to anyone who had regular access to the Ramsey house (e.g., the postman, other delivery people, gardeners, contractors etc.). So if the mailman was a member of Rotary International (!!!), then the police, in your view, would have just cause to query everyone in Rotary and demand that they provide an alibi for Christmas night 1996. Does that sound even remotely reasonable to you?

The reality is that if any of the other 28 students demanded to know why they were being questioned, all the police could really offer was "well you knew Nathan Inouye, didn't you?" I pray that our civil liberties these days aren't that fragile that we've given the police that much leeway to do their business. Unless some reasonable grounds exist for suspicion (and I don't think knowing Nathan really qualifies), I would hope that the law would view questioning such remotely-connected individuals as beyond reason. Is there some lawyer on the boards who might confirm what's plausible here?




DocWatson,

So you don't think a young man who babysat JonBenet while her parents were out of town and who regularly drove her to school is not worth investigating? And his real-time connection to a suspicious "foreign faction" is not worth investigating?

And you naively ask should every one of the 29 members of APAC at Boulder be checked out? You damned right well they should! And so did the investigative team that was sent to Atlanta on August 28 and 29, 2000 to interview the Ramseys in behalf of the United States. That team consisted of:

Mike Kane
Bruce Levin
Mitch Morrissey
Mark Beckner
Tom wickman
Tom Trujillo, and
Jane Harmer.

The question is: Did they follow through and properly investigate Nathan Inouye and APAC? I doubt it. The investigation of Inouye probably got no further than a telephone call to Susan Stine and maybe a telephone call to Jamaica to talk to Nathan. Therefore, I still don't think they are aware of APAC and Inouye's membership in that "small foreign faction" at the time of the murder.

Even John Douglas, the ex-FBI profiler and author whom the Ramseys hired told the Ramseys that the killer was likely a young man who knew the house and its occupants and had a deep resentment of John Ramsey.

JMO

[BlueCrab]

You don't know that BlueCrab. The same as you don't know what Beckner has that disproves the stun gun, this information has never been released or leaked to the public. They might have completely investigated this kid and his cronies.



Rnd2,

Well, as of August 28, 2000, the cops didn't even know Nathan Inouye existed. That's clear from the Atlanta interviews. And if they didn't know about Nathan, then they didn't know about his membership in APAC.

I was the one who released the information on the internet about Nathan's membership in APAC, and that was less than two years ago. I doubt if Keenan has followed up with an investigation of her own on Nathan Inouye or APAC. There's no money in the Boulder budget for any further active investigations into the JonBenet Ramsey murder.

JMO

[aRnd2it]

BlueCrab,

Before you investigate APAC, the local UAW, or any other group, you first have to prove someone else other than the three surviving Ramseys was in the house. That has never been done, and never will be.

Then you have to address why Patsy would write a note to cover for the additional person, and why both she and John would lie to protect them.

[DocWatson]

DocWatson,

So you don't think a young man who babysat JonBenet while her parents were out of town and who regularly drove her to school is not worth investigating? And his real-time connection to a suspicious "foreign faction" is not worth investigating?

And you naively ask should every one of the 29 members of APAC at Boulder be checked out? You damned right well they should! And so did the investigative team that was sent to Atlanta on August 28 and 29, 2000 to interview the Ramseys in behalf of the United States. That team consisted of:

Mike Kane
Bruce Levin
Mitch Morrissey
Mark Beckner
Tom wickman
Tom Trujillo, and
Jane Harmer.

The question is: Did they follow through and properly investigate Nathan Inouye and APAC? I doubt it. The investigation of Inouye probably got no further than a telephone call to Susan Stine and maybe a telephone call to Jamaica to talk to Nathan. Therefore, I still don't think they are aware of APAC and Inouye's membership in that "small foreign faction" at the time of the murder.

Even John Douglas, the ex-FBI profiler and author whom the Ramseys hired told the Ramseys that the killer was likely a young man who knew the house and its occupants and had a deep resentment of John Ramsey.

JMO

"Hello, Mrs. Stine? Was Nathan living at your house on Xmas night 1996?"
"No, Detective Thomas, he had gone home to California for Xmas."
"Thanks so much."

"Hello, Mr. Inouye, was your son with you on the night of Xmas 1996."
"Yes he was. Would you like me to send you the photo we took of everyone at the Xmas family dinnner."
"Yes, that would be helpful to have in our files in case some WACKO on Websleuths accuses us of not investigating him."

End of investigation. It doesn't require an army of investigators to check out one person who has a rock-solid alibi, so you have no idea whether this easily-investigated possibility has in fact been explored. LE had already established that John didn't view Nathan with ANY misgivings. If Nathan had deep resentments towards John, then he evidently kept these well hidden. And if he was out of the picture physically, then your theory "works" if and only if he somehow transmitted those deep resentments to one of his fellow APAC members. The notion that LE should squander valuable resources checking out this 1 in a million possibility is ludicrous. As I say, using your "2 degrees of separation" logic, this would have automatically extended the investigation to potentially thousands of people. I am grateful you have no control over LE resources in my community else the taxes to live there would be sky high!

[Camper]

BC, I think you make some very good points about APAC and the possibility of someone meeting or having knowledge of the Ramseys through Nathan. JAR was a student at CU himself, and the possibility exists that a friend/acquaintance of his (possibly thru Nathan) is the perp. I personally believe that the perp is someone very familiar with the house and grounds and someone who felt a degree of comfort inside the home, but hey....stranger things have happened.




---------In a hurry have not read carefully all points on this thread - just skimmed so far. But, but, but, WHO - maybe a WHO involved here ??, WHO was yet to come home 'that' night, so House Alarm was not set!! Perhaps a wearer of a garment with some different fibers - maybe some of those found on Jon Benet/area.

NOTE: also on fibers my post on Stun Gun thread. Could some of those unidentified fibers be from the 'NEW scarf' that JR had tucked in the casket with JonBenet. A NEW scarf that JonBenet had never seen or heard of - a 'to be' Christmas gift, IF IF I recall correctly. That would be worth an 'exhumation wouldn't it'?


----------------A missionary, wonder what gave PR a thought like that? Nathan musta been a really NICE guy so was/is Scott Peterson. Hmmm




.

[Eagle1]

Hey, that's a very unusual thought, we overlooked so far. Yes, evidently there was someone still due to come in! (Or, we have to admit the family were a bit careless about some things like that.)

New scarf, I was thinking they said was silk, but I may be wrong, and yes, it does seem very strange that John would want it buried and not exhumed, I've always thought.

About APAC, I just checked "past events" at the link to see what they were about. Mostly about Asian womens' problems here? Nathan's DNA, prints, etc. were probably checked?

[Camper]

The one thing that I personally am comfortable in thinking, is that JonBenet would never have gone willingly to the basement with someone she did not know.

IF IF the scream was indeed heard by the neighbor, then it was determined the scream had to have come from the basement. The BPD established that fact, if I am remembering correctly.

IF IF the scream came from JonBenet bedroom, then the 'parents' would have awakened.

"The Scarf", the scarf, anyone know or that can point to specific information about 'the scarf'. Sounds like the title of a book. Eagle1, I cannot remember with any specifics about what the material was thought to be. I don't with clarity remember that it was thought to be silk.

I do remember there was reference to the scarf in DOI, I do not have that book at this time. Can someone find the reference in DOI for us??

In fact my muddled brain seems to think it was a Scottish pattern, IF IF that is a fact, then it would NOT most likely have been silk, and would have included multiply colored fibers. Seem odd to give a child a silk scarf in the dead of winter. MOP.

I also seem to remember that PR put such loving reference to the scarf, that it did not take on a life of its own as did other aspects of this case. I personally think 'the scarf' may have some excellent answers we have been looking for, for eight years. IF IF GA makes a decision on whether to exhume etc.



.

[Eagle1]

You're absolutely right that giving JonBenet a silk scarf in the middle of winter would not make a bit of sense. A Scottish plaid would make a lot more sense. I still have some of the books, not DOI, which was from the library.
Will do some looking today if I don't forget. They probably don't any of them have much of an index.

[mihaff]

Rnd2,

Well, as of August 28, 2000, the cops didn't even know Nathan Inouye existed. That's clear from the Atlanta interviews. And if they didn't know about Nathan, then they didn't know about his membership in APAC.

I was the one who released the information on the internet about Nathan's membership in APAC, and that was less than two years ago. I doubt if Keenan has followed up with an investigation of her own on Nathan Inouye or APAC. There's no money in the Boulder budget for any further active investigations into the JonBenet Ramsey murder.

JMOThe small foreign faction in the note does not exist. Someone like patsy made it up IMO. To twist the lie into an allegation against an innocent man is ridiculous. And you did accuse him in your post. Patsy and John KNOW this man is innocent, and I suspect so do you

[Camper]

I do remember that Patsy wrote in DOI, that 'John' had bought a beautiful scarf for JonBenet. WELLLLLLLLL how do WE know that it wasn't bought by John for John? I guess the length of the scarf would tell a tale for certain. Exhumation would tell us that.

IF IF IF it was a scarf bought by John for John, it would have been a mans scarf, and mens scarves are typically very very long.

A childs scarf would have been much much shorter. An exhumation would tell us the answer to this.

So Patsy's comment in DOI leaves an open ended wonderment, since she does NOT say that John bought it for her for Christmas, or for her birthday (that was past wasn't it - so how come JonBenet had not received it already). (I need definite clarification on m wonderment here.)

Just where was the scarf on the day after Christmas?

Buriel was quite some time later after murder ie autopsy fighting over body being released etc.

There again the 'missing/non existent' Christmas video was not available to see JonBenet opening her gifts, did JonBenet open her scarf gift Christmas morning.

Again we have Patsy saying in DOI, that JOHN HAD purchased a scarf for JonBenet, well how come she did not have it already? No mention in DOI whether JonBenet loved this 'beautiful scarf' IF IF OR WHEN she received it Christmas morning.

Welllllllll, he coulda purchased it after she died, but, the only way we would ever know that is IF IF IF the fibers found with JonBenet matched the scarf in the casket, huh?

I need someone to look up the phrasing in DOI, I no longer have my book DOI that Toltec sent to me. Toltec are you still reading here, Merry Christmas.

The size of the scarf in the casket would tell the whole story, since Patsy says John bought it FOR JonBenet.

I just don't see a 6 year old wearing a man sized scarf. So that is the LONG and the SHORT of my thoughts on 'the scarf'.




.

[BrotherMoon]

Is it true that four items were placed in the coffin. Scarf, Tiara, Bear and some thing that started with a C? S.B.T.C ?

[Nehemiah]

I do remember that Patsy wrote in DOI, that 'John' had bought a beautiful scarf for JonBenet. WELLLLLLLLL how do WE know that it wasn't bought by John for John? I guess the length of the scarf would tell a tale for certain. Exhumation would tell us that.

IF IF IF it was a scarf bought by John for John, it would have been a mans scarf, and mens scarves are typically very very long.

A childs scarf would have been much much shorter. An exhumation would tell us the answer to this.

So Patsy's comment in DOI leaves an open ended wonderment, since she does NOT say that John bought it for her for Christmas, or for her birthday (that was past wasn't it - so how come JonBenet had not received it already). (I need definite clarification on m wonderment here.)

Just where was the scarf on the day after Christmas?

Buriel was quite some time later after murder ie autopsy fighting over body being released etc.

There again the 'missing/non existent' Christmas video was not available to see JonBenet opening her gifts, did JonBenet open her scarf gift Christmas morning.

Again we have Patsy saying in DOI, that JOHN HAD purchased a scarf for JonBenet, well how come she did not have it already? No mention in DOI whether JonBenet loved this 'beautiful scarf' IF IF OR WHEN she received it Christmas morning.

Welllllllll, he coulda purchased it after she died, but, the only way we would ever know that is IF IF IF the fibers found with JonBenet matched the scarf in the casket, huh?

I need someone to look up the phrasing in DOI, I no longer have my book DOI that Toltec sent to me. Toltec are you still reading here, Merry Christmas.

The size of the scarf in the casket would tell the whole story, since Patsy says John bought it FOR JonBenet.

I just don't see a 6 year old wearing a man sized scarf. So that is the LONG and the SHORT of my thoughts on 'the scarf'.

Good thoughts here, Camper Girl. I think someone borrowed my DOI and didn't return it, so I can't look it up...but one thing that I truly believe, is that the Ramseys "wrote" that book to answer the questions that were floating around at that time, or that they thought would later surface. I think that was the entire purpose for DOI.

(Example..Patsy in DOI talks about hanging the phone back in the cradle. Now why would anyone even address that? I believe she does because she knows that coming down the pike is the allegation that the phone wasn't hung up properly and hence the 911 recording of Burke's voice. Just a side note here.... to make my point)

In other words, if they thought the scarf would be an issue down the road, then they addressed it in the book. So, Camper, you may be onto something because otherwise why would they spend time in describing the scarf?

[BrotherMoon]

...but one thing that I truly believe, is that the Ramseys "wrote" that book to answer the questions that were floating around at that time, or that they thought would later surface. I think that was the entire purpose for DOI.


Right, I'm sure we all had questions about the color purple, glad she set us straight on that.

[Nehemiah]

Is it true that four items were placed in the coffin. Scarf, Tiara, Bear and some thing that started with a C? S.B.T.C ?

Was it the stuffed cat, Sister Socks? Can't remember either. Not so sure about a bear. I don't think that was in the coffin.

[BlueCrab]

Was it the stuffed cat, Sister Socks? Can't remember either. Not so sure about a bear. I don't think that was in the coffin.



It's in DOI, Pg 39:

There were originally four items placed in the casket by the Ramseys as they were saying their goodbyes to JonBenet. Strangely, the initials of the four items were SBTC:

Scarf (by John)
Bracelet (by Nedra)
Tiara (by Aunt Pam)
Cross (by Aunt Polly)

Priscilla White rushed in at the last minute with Sister Socks, the fifth item. This surprised Patsy because unknown to her the toy cat had been at the White's house. Sister Socks was placed in the casket by Patsy, who tucked the stuffed animal under JonBenet's right arm.

The scarf was silk, and had been recently purchased by John for himself. He tucked the scarf around JonBenet as one would a blanket.

JMO

[BlueCrab]

"Yes, that would be helpful to have in our files in case some WACKO on Websleuths accuses us of not investigating him."



DocWatson,

I do believe thou protests too much when Nathan and APAC are discussed in a murder theory. Hmmm. And by the way, Nathan and APAC were NOT investigated by the cops. They didn't even know his name.

JMO

[BlueCrab]

DocWatson,

I do believe thou protests too much when Nathan and APAC are discussed in a murder theory. Hmmm. And by the way, Nathan and APAC were NOT investigated by the cops. They didn't even know his name.

JMO



Since DocWatson seems to have a special interest in Nathan Inouye and APAC, perhaps we should discuss this aspect in a little more depth.

The Asian Pacific American Coalition at Colorado, after suspiciously disbanding following the murder of JonBenet, strangely kept up its website but never updated it after April of 1997. A call to the University's Student Organization Financial Office disclosed the school discontinued funding APAC in early 1997 due to no activity. APAC had suddenly closed shop despite having scheduled speakers in 1996 for its 1997 meetings.

On that update of its website, APAC interestingly signed off with the following statement:

"Last updated on April 14, 1997 by K.J.L.B Groups Copyright 1997 Asian Pacific American Coalition"

There was no period following the last letter of the four initials, K.J.L.B, used by APAC as a name on its website. Likewise, there was no period following the last of four initials, S.B.T.C, used by the killers of JonBenet as a name at the end of their ransom note.

No one has ever figured out what S.B.T.C stands for. The letters are not an acronym. They are initials, and initials are usually used to identify a person, a place, or a thing. Here's one theory on what the initials stand for:

To remain an active member of APAC at Colorado, the bylaws state that each member had to earn points by participating in activities that benefited APAC or the Asian American community. APAC members consisted of people with backgrounds from many different Asian countries. I think that the initial of the Asian country from which a member represented was used to identify and give credit to the member who performed the activity that benefited APAC or the Asian American community. For instance, APAC's website signoff using the initials K.J.L.B could have stood for Korea, Japan, Laos, and Bhutan.

Thus, the JonBenet ransom note signoff using the initials S.B.T.C could, for instance, have stood for Singapore, Bhutan, Thailand, and China.

In this way APAC would be encryptically but publicly giving credit to its individual members for accomplishing an activity that earned points and benefited APAC or the Asian American community.

JMO

[Nehemiah]

BlueCrab, do you know if there were any connection at all to APAC and JAR? Did he date anyone that we know of who was a member? Were he and any members "friends"?

[BlueCrab]

BlueCrab, do you know if there were any connection at all to APAC and JAR? Did he date anyone that we know of who was a member? Were he and any members "friends"?


Nehemiah,

Sorry, but I don't know if John Andrew knew any APAC (Boulder, Colorado) members other than Nathan. Here's a list of APAC's 29 members in 1996-97:

Eric Sung
Michael Yang
Raji Adhikary
Nancy Easterbrook
Jonda Evans
Christine Ge
Cherie Ikeda
Jeff Inada
Nathan Inouye
YaoWen Jing
Alex Kajitani
In Koo Kim
John Kokko
Stuart Lee
Li-Anne Liew
Robert Matsuo
Lance Nakayama
Xia Ngiateng
Mao Nguyen
Suosdey Penn
Lasi Perincheril
Jun Ra
Shelly Ren
John Schunck
Tom Shelley
Henry Tam
Wayne Wong
HeeSun Yoon
Malcolm Yeung


JMO

[Miss Daisey]

Nehemiah,

Sorry, but I don't know if John Andrew knew any APAC (Boulder, Colorado) members other than Nathan. Here's a list of APAC's 29 members in 1996-97:

Eric Sung
Michael Yang
Raji Adhikary
Nancy Easterbrook
Jonda Evans
Christine Ge
Cherie Ikeda
Jeff Inada
Nathan Inouye
YaoWen Jing
Alex Kajitani
In Koo Kim
John Kokko
Stuart Lee
Li-Anne Liew
Robert Matsuo
Lance Nakayama
Xia Ngiateng
Mao Nguyen
Suosdey Penn
Lasi Perincheril
Jun Ra
Shelly Ren
John Schunck
Tom Shelley
Henry Tam
Wayne Wong
HeeSun Yoon
Malcolm Yeung


JMO

I've only recently read about the former activist group at UC and the name of Nathan Inouye and his connection to the Ramseys. In the interview of Patsy in Atlanta by the Bolder investigators, it was apparent they'd never heard of him until then either but somewhere in that interview I believe she said (or implied) that Nathan was one of the persons that she and John suspected of being involved in JBRs death.

On reading the account of that interview I had to wonder just how much time Nathan had spent in the company of the Ramseys, JBR, Burke and the friend of Burke named Doug Cline (?)...whom he apparently lived with in a home near the Ramseys. Patsy said Nathan drove the kids to school occassionally and baby sat the neighbors children while the neighbors were traveling. Did he ever baby sit for the Ramseys? I'm not sure whether she said he did or didn't. I don't think I would have left a 6yr old girl in the care of an older male even IF her brother Burke was in the home also.

Further, did Patsy ever give anyone a gift, birthday or perhaps a religious greeting card signed by her with the initials of SBTC? As someone suggested, that could have stood for (S)aved (B)y (T)he (Cross) as she had become quite fundamental in her religious life since the onset of her illness. Could someone have mimiced her writing style and salutation? Doesn't seem to me a 9yr old Burke would have been that observant or articulate enough to compose such a ransom note. Likewise, the same would seem doubtful that a 9yr old would have used a stun gun or any of the other devices found to have been possible weapons of death. Yet...Burke seems to be a compelling figure none the less.

Suppose that Burke was awakened and saw "somebody" in the darkness on the children's bedroom floor of the home (2nd floor) but couldn't identify them positively...or at least refused to identify them or just simply blocked it out of all memory. Truth is stranger than fiction sometime.

Perhaps Patsy felt that Burke knew it was Nathan in the home that night but was terrified of admitting it to his parents and she adamently refuse to allow her son to be drawn into a murder investigation...even though the victim was her beloved daughter.

Perhaps Patsy blamed herself for ever allowing N into her home to start with or for not being more vigilent in the protection of her children.

I know.... I'm all over the place in this post with no theory or evidence to support my suppositions.

[BlueCrab]

I've only recently read about the former activist group at UC and the name of ***** ***** and his connection to the Ramseys. In the interview of Patsy in Atlanta by the Bolder investigators, it was apparent they'd never heard of him until then either but somewhere in that interview I believe she said (or implied) that ***** was one of the persons that she and John suspected of being involved in JBRs death.

On reading the account of that interview I had to wonder just how much time ***** had spent in the company of the Ramseys, JBR, Burke and the friend of Burke named ***** Cline (?)...whom he apparently lived with in a home near the Ramseys. Patsy said ***** drove the kids to school occassionally and baby sat the neighbors children while the neighbors were traveling. Did he ever baby sit for the Ramseys? I'm not sure whether she said he did or didn't. I don't think I would have left a 6yr old girl in the care of an older male even IF her brother Burke was in the home also.

Further, did Patsy ever give anyone a gift, birthday or perhaps a religious greeting card signed by her with the initials of SBTC? As someone suggested, that could have stood for (S)aved (B)y (T)he (Cross) as she had become quite fundamental in her religious life since the onset of her illness. Could someone have mimiced her writing style and salutation? Doesn't seem to me a 9yr old Burke would have been that observant or articulate enough to compose such a ransom note. Likewise, the same would seem doubtful that a 9yr old would have used a stun gun or any of the other devices found to have been possible weapons of death. Yet...Burke seems to be a compelling figure none the less.

Suppose that Burke was awakened and saw "somebody" in the darkness on the children's bedroom floor of the home (2nd floor) but couldn't identify them positively...or at least refused to identify them or just simply blocked it out of all memory. Truth is stranger than fiction sometime.

Perhaps Patsy felt that Burke knew it was ***** in the home that night but was terrified of admitting it to his parents and she adamently refuse to allow her son to be drawn into a murder investigation...even though the victim was her beloved daughter.

Perhaps Patsy blamed herself for ever allowing N into her home to start with or for not being more vigilent in the protection of her children.

I know.... I'm all over the place in this post with no theory or evidence to support my suppositions.



Miss Daisey,

Good post. However, without an investigation of ***** and APAC we won't have the answers to most of the questions being raised. So far, we only have *****'s personal e-mail reply to a WS inquiry to him in which he replied that he was home in California when JonBenet was murdered. But there were 29 members of APAC, and any one of them could have been the loose cannon. The individual members of that pro-active "small foreign faction", which suspiciously disbanded following the murder of JonBenet, should be investigated to at least find out where they were on Christmas night.

With respect to ***** babysitting Burke and JonBenet I can state as a fact that on the weekend of December 6, 1996, three weeks before JonBenet was murdered, ***** helped Nedra babysit the children while John and Patsy Ramsey were in New York with Glen and Susan Stine.

In regard to the ransom note, the CBI handwriting experts could not eliminate Burke Ramsey as the writer.

JMO

[Miss Daisey]

Miss Daisey,

Good post. However, without an investigation of Nathan and APAC we won't have the answers to most of the questions being raised. So far, we only have Nathan's personal e-mail reply to a WS inquiry to him in which he replied that he was home in California when JonBenet was murdered. But there were 29 members of APAC, and any one of them could have been the loose cannon. The individual members of that pro-active "small foreign faction", which suspiciously disbanded following the murder of JonBenet, should be investigated to at least find out where they were on Christmas night.

With respect to Nathan babysitting Burke and JonBenet I can state as a fact that on the weekend of December 6, 1996, three weeks before JonBenet was murdered, Nathan helped Nedra babysit the children while John and Patsy Ramsey were in New York with Glen and Susan Stine.

In regard to the ransom note, the CBI handwriting experts could not eliminate Burke Ramsey as the writer.

JMO

Hmmmm.....I could e-mail you and tell you that I was at home on Christmas Eve and went to bed at 6:30pm with the flu. I couldn't prove it because everybody else went on to the party without me and I didn't see any of them until late the next afternoon.

How far is it from Bolder to Ca? Bet I could make a round trip in 24hrs.

An investigation of Nathan's alibi and that of his associates of APAC would seem the first order of business once investigators became aware of him.

Also, in whose home did Nathan help babysit the children and were there any other visitors to that home while the Ramseys and Stines were away?

In regard to the CBI handwritting analasis....."small foreign faction" "southern common sense" and reference to $118,000 isn't the language of a 9yr old. IMO

BTW the reference to the $118k (in the RN) was rumored to be the amount of John Ramseys company bonus. If true, an adult that was given access to their home while the Ramseys were away could easily have found that information laying in their home office. In deed, the RN may well have been written on Pasty's note paper before the murder took place.

Nope ! I don't buy the theory of someone entering or leaving that home through the broken basement window...or fashioning a "garrote" either. That person was an adult that knew this very large, unconventional floor plan. He had a planned escaped right out a door he had unlocked before the crime took place.

John Ramsey discribed the basement as "a lot of junk laying around". Among the "junk" lay the "garrote" that Burke had probably made while practicing his knot tying and was a handy source of binding the child.

Still.....there's Burke. What did he see, who did he see and where was he during the commission of the murder?

[BlueCrab]

Still.....there's Burke. What did he see, who did he see and where was he during the commission of the murder?


Miss Daisey,

IMO Burke was directly involved somehow in the death of JonBenet or the Ramseys wouldn't be lying their heads off, covering up, and refusing to fully cooperate with the investigation. They would do this ONLY if Burke was involved.

There was definitely a fifth person, and maybe a sixth person, in the house that night. And even though Burke was the likely writer of the ransom note (John was eliminated as the writer and Patsy was all but eliminated, but Burke could not be eliminated), he had to have had some help with the vocabulary in the note. The highly suspicious behaviors of the Stines following the killing of JonBenet causes me to theorize that Burke's best friend, ***** *****, was the fifth person in the house that night. ***** was only a fouth-grader like Burke, but he was an excellent writer. Therefore, if ***** was the fifth person in the house that night, then the sixth person, if any, most likely would have been *****'s live-in caregiver, ***** *****.

JMO

[Miss Daisey]

Miss Daisey,

IMO Burke was directly involved somehow in the death of JonBenet or the Ramseys wouldn't be lying their heads off, covering up, and refusing to fully cooperate with the investigation. They would do this ONLY if Burke was involved.

There was definitely a fifth person, and maybe a sixth person, in the house that night. And even though Burke was the likely writer of the ransom note (John was eliminated as the writer and Patsy was all but eliminated, but Burke could not be eliminated), he had to have had some help with the vocabulary in the note. The highly suspicious behaviors of the Stines following the killing of JonBenet causes me to theorize that Burke's best friend, Doug Stine, was the fifth person in the house that night. Doug was only a fouth-grader like Burke, but he was an excellent writer. Therefore, if Doug was the fifth person in the house that night, then the sixth person, if any, most likely would have been Doug's live-in caregiver, Nathan Inouye.

JMO
Blue Crab,

This is chilling ! I've needed a bit of time to digest it.

Let me get this streight here. You're saying that a college student and two 9yr olds may have committed this murder? How long do you think a grown man would trust those two kids to keep that secret and not expose him? Eight years ? !!! Not likely....not even probable.

This may have started out to be a late night visit to the basement with JBR, her brother and Doug Stine but when an adult is factored into it.......Patsy would have gone on the attack,immediatly, holding Nathan totally responsible. Now, she and the Stines could have collaborated to protect both kids but NOT if they knew there was an adult involved.

Should your theory be correct, you now have 4-5 people with knowledge of the murder of JBR. This case would have been broken wide open in this length of time. That many people are NOT going to keep their mouths shut or not have already implicated themselves in some way. IMO

What sort of "suspicious behavior" did the Stines display after the crime? I haven't heard or read anything about that. And I still don't understand your allegations that the Ramseys "lied their heads off" or "covering up". Their avoidance of the investigation, I understand, if they're protecting Burke and I agree he's the ONLY one they'd do it for.

The red turtleneck Patsy said JBR was wearing the night before was found wet...rolled up or something to that effect in her bathroom?? looks like something a kid would do...just wash it out and leave it laying there? She may have vomitted on it and Burke (or Doug) washed it and left it laying. Patsy wouldn't have done that, IMO.

The fact that the security system wasn't armed left open the successful exit of the home without being detected. It could have been Doug that left or Nathan but not both, IMO.

You said that Doug, as a fourth grader, was an "excellent writter"...How so? How do you know this about him? I'm not disputing it...just wondering if that was ever reported anywhere.

I'm still leaning to the theory that this is either Patsy and Burke's secret.. because John would have gotten the truth out of Burke.. knowing this isn't going to fly... or......an intruder, known to the family, was the perp. Not this gaggle of people...who would ALL be accesseries by now

If Burke murdered his little sister 8 yrs ago, Patsy must worry every night now that he's a 17yr old killer and his mother is the only other person that could give him away. The legal presedent for capital murder charges 25yrs later is met by the conviction of Martha Moxley's killer, Michael Scakel (?)

Whoa ! This case gets more freightening by the minute.

[Camper]

Frightening is a word for it. When I was a little girl, the world called it 'playing doctor'. Today however with the rampant usage of sex on TV, taped movies showing everything private that a human being can be a part of, and 'experienced college age boys involved in the household, we just might have to call it something else.

IMOP




.

[Miss Daisey]

Frightening is a word for it. When I was a little girl, the world called it 'playing doctor'. Today however with the rampant usage of sex on TV, taped movies showing everything private that a human being can be a part of, and 'experienced college age boys involved in the household, we just might have to call it something else.

IMOP




.
Maybe so, Camper

I couldn't be described as being niave at my age but I'm having a hard time with the possiblility of all those people having knowledge of this murder and not letting something slip by now. Especially the kids.

[Camper]

Welcome Miss Daisey to WS. Your point is a refreshing one at this 8 year mark.

IF it is on the spot, then that would explain all of the suits the Ramseys put forth to protect Burke, cuz he 'maybe' did not do it, (sorry BlueCrab). Would it explain the hiring of an attorney for the family in Georgia, cuz JAR didn't do it either?(this shoots down my pet theory)

Would it also explain why the Ramseys keep looking for the elusive drooling perp, OR OR OR as many have held tight to their beliefs that PR and JR did it?(this theory is held by many faithful WS posters as well)

I do believe that the Ramseys will NEVER see the inside of a court room where they will have been charged with murder of their little daughter.

There are considerably more dead end blind alleys that the investigators have traveled for little JonBenet. May her soul rest in peace. She did NOT deserve to be murdered.



.



.

[Miss Daisey]

Thanks for the welcome, Camper

I don't know to what degree Burke might have been involved. My gut tells me he has more than after the fact knowledge, however.

The most obvious reason, IMO, the Ramseys hired their Atlanta lawyer, Linn Wood, was to keep the Denver Police Dept. at bay. They filed suit against someone for accussing Burke. It didn't go to trial rather was settled out of court, I think. He must feel confident about them otherwise he'd advise against their continued appearances on TV. If they're ever charged in JBR's death, look for video from Larry King Live as evidence because the DPD is listening to every word....as in the Scott Peterson case. He might as well have testified in court, IMO.

I know many posters have strong feelings that John and Patsy killed their child. And they make very good arguements against them too. I just don't believe that's what happened.

[BlueCrab]

Blue Crab,

Let me get this streight here. You're saying that a college student and two 9yr olds may have committed this murder?

This may have started out to be a late night visit to the basement with JBR, her brother and ***** ***** but when an adult is factored into it.......Patsy would have gone on the attack,immediatly, holding ***** totally responsible.

Should your theory be correct, you now have 4-5 people with knowledge of the murder of JBR. This case would have been broken wide open in this length of time. That many people are NOT going to keep their mouths shut or not have already implicated themselves in some way.

What sort of "suspicious behavior" did the Stines display after the crime? I haven't heard or read anything about that.

You said that *****, as a fourth grader, was an "excellent writter"...How so? How do you know this about him? I'm not disputing it...just wondering if that was ever reported anywhere.



Miss Daisy,

I've taken the liberty of shrinking your original post down to a size that I may be able to answer.

1. Yes, I'm saying the crime could have been committed by one 9-yr-old, or by two 9-yr-olds, or by two 9-yr-olds and a college student. I have several theories about who killed JonBenet and why, but Burke Ramsey is in all of them because it is clear that neither John nor Patsy Ramsey killed JonBenet, yet the Ramseys are engaged in a coverup. There is overwhelming evidence there was no intruder, so that leaves Burke. John and Patsy wouldn't be lying, covering up, and deliberately obfuscating the investigation for anyone else but Burke -- and certainly not for the benefit of an unknown intruder.

2. In regard to the number of people who know who killed JonBenet and are keeping their mouths shut, try MANY DOZENS. They are all keeping their mouths shut because if they open them they will be convicted for contempt, fined, sent to jail, and lose their professional licenses and present means of making a living. IMO the people who know who killed JonBenet include the members of the Ramsey grand jury (who, IMO, solved the crime in 1999 after investigating it for 13 months), the D.A.'s office, certain judges and court personnel, Boulder officials, and certain publishers and media executives. The perpetrators of this crime were too young to be prosecuted and their identities are strictly protected by the Colorado Children's code and a court gag order slapped on the case immediately following the adjournment of the grand jury.

3. With respect to the suspicious behaviors of the Stines following the death of JonBenet, the list is long. The Stines, for instance, were the chief defenders and protectors of the Ramseys, to the extent that Susan Stine was referred to by the police as "Patsy's pit bull", and "The Gatekeeper". The Stines took the Ramsey family and the Paugh family into their single-family home in Boulder, where the Ramseys and the Paughs lived in cramped quarters with Glen Stine, Susan Stine, ***** *****, and ***** ***** for 5 months in early 1997. When the Ramseys moved to Atlanta later in 1997 the Stines sold their house and left their high-paying jobs in Boulder (Dr. Glen Stine was vice president of the University of Colorado at Boulder and Susan Stine was Director of Research at the University) and moved to Atlanta in 1998 to live, unemployed, in the same neighborhood as the Ramseys.

4. In regard to ***** *****'s writing abilities, I refer to a February 13, 2004 bulletin from *****'s high school which reported that ***** had attended a 3-day seminar at the University of Georgia representing Kuwait at a Model United Nations. The school article said "Delegates must give speeches, be skilled negotiators in caucuses, and excellent writers who compose and debate resolutions to solve pressing international problems." ***** ***** is obviously a talented kid and an excellent writer today, suggesting that for his age he was also likely an excellent writer 8 years ago.

JMO

[Miss Daisey]

Blue Crab,

Thank you for responding to my questions. You, obvious, have researched considerably on the subject(s).

You stated that you have serveral theories on the who and why in regard to the 9yr olds and Nathan. OK. Can you tell me about the "why" the child was murdered?

Also, are there no statutes in Colorado law that would allow a minor to be charged as an adult?

The grand jury, apparently, didn't hear any (or enough) evidence that Nathan was involved in the murder after 13 months investigation. I believe Burke did testify before them, didn't he?

[BlueCrab]

Blue Crab,

Thank you for responding to my questions. You, obvious, have researched considerably on the subject(s).

You stated that you have serveral theories on the who and why in regard to the 9yr olds and Nathan. OK. Can you tell me about the "why" the child was murdered?

Also, are there no statutes in Colorado law that would allow a minor to be charged as an adult?

The grand jury, apparently, didn't hear any (or enough) evidence that Nathan was involved in the murder after 13 months investigation. I believe Burke did testify before them, didn't he?


Miss Daisey,

In regard to WHY JonBenet was murdered my theories range from pure accidental to pure evil. All theories include erotic asphyxiation because that's what the device wrapped around JonBenet's neck was designed for. It was NOT a garrote. Children innocently experimenting with EA could have accidentally asphyxiated JonBenet. OR a politically-inspired and drug-crazy member of APAC, let into the house by Burke, could have tortured JonBenet with a stun gun and sexually molested her, and then posed her body grotesquely to send a message to the rest of the country of a high-profile defiled beautiful and privileged American child beauty queen.

With respect to the Colorado Children's Code, it is an unrelenting statute that positively prevents the identification of a child under 10 years old who is involved in a major crime. In such cases the district attorney (Alex Hunter in this instance) is given full authority to quietly resolve the issue behind the scenes in any way he or she deems appropriate. IMO this is why all of the lawsuits involving Burke are settled and not allowed to go forward to trial. Also, I think the major media networks have been made aware of the problem by the court and thus allow pro-Ramsey infomercials to be shown on TV in an effort to cooperate, blame it on an intruder, and put the Ramsey case to bed.

Nathan Inouye and APAC pose a problem for me. If this aspect of my theory is close to being true, I'm afraid the real perpetrators have slipped through the cracks and are walking away free. I know that youngsters Burke, Doug, and Fleet White III testified in front of the grand jury, but I don't think Nathan did. Since we found out from the Atlanta interviews in 2000 that investigators had never even heard of Nathan Inouye, the GJ may not have been aware of Nathan either.

JMO

[Camper]

Blue Crab, :clap::clap::clap: a very neat and tidy summation. Where do you think this leaves Fox and the Ramsey suit?

Do you think the broadcast was done on purpose, to have Lin Wood raise his head up yet again, in hopes of resolution to the case?

Fox should have some very deep pockets for a settlement, and not anxious to settle until they get the results they want. I wonder how LONG will this suit drag on?

It seems to me that filing 'this suit' leaves the Ramseys on some very LARGE horns of a dilehma. Although imop the must figure time is on their side, IF they have not been charged by now they most likely never will be, imop.



.

[BlueCrab]

Blue Crab, :clap::clap::clap: a very neat and tidy summation. Where do you think this leaves Fox and the Ramsey suit?

Do you think the broadcast was done on purpose, to have Lin Wood raise his head up yet again, in hopes of resolution to the case?

Fox should have some very deep pockets for a settlement, and not anxious to settle until they get the results they want. I wonder how LONG will this suit drag on?

It seems to me that filing 'this suit' leaves the Ramseys on some very LARGE horns of a dilehma. Although imop the must figure time is on their side, IF they have not been charged by now they most likely never will be, imop.




Thank you Camper. Here's how I see it:

Political conservative billionaire Rupert Murdoch, who owns Fox, will probably fight the Ramsey v Fox News battle all the way to a court conclusion. Burke is not the main subject in this defamation lawsuit, so the litigants won't likely be forced to settle due to the Colorado Children's Code that protects the identities of children under 10 years of age.

The politically liberal news networks (CBS, NBC, and ABC) will likely continue to cooperate with the legal coverup that has been in place since 1999 and they will try to convince the public that an intruder killed JonBenet by continuing to give the Ramsey camp forums to present their views. Don't expect those networks to give a venue to those who know better.

Neither John Ramsey nor Patsy Ramsey killed JonBenet, so they will never be charged with anything -- including the obstruction of justice.

JMO

[Jayelles]

Are you, or are you not posting at jamesons and saying you don't really believe the stuff you are posting here?

Enquiring minds want to know :D

[BlueCrab]

Are you, or are you not posting at jamesons and saying you don't really believe the stuff you are posting here?

Enquiring minds want to know :D



Jayelles,

I don't post at Jameson's forum, nor do I even read there. Is there someone using the BlueCrab name and posting over there? If so, it sounds like a typical Jameson dirty trick in progress.

BlueCrab

Edited to add that I wouldn't touch Jameson's site with a 10-foot pole. I made several posts over there 2 or 3 years ago but Jameson twisted what I had posted, said that "BlueCrab was full of it", and then promptly deleted all of my posts. That lady puts Joseph Goebbels, Nazi propaganda minister, to shame with her control of free speech.

BlueCrab

[Camper]

Isn't that interesting?

I am so dumb I did not even know Jameson still had a forum, OR that we could print her name out in full here?

It has always been enough to post here at WS, I never was too interested in what the neighbors had to say. One forum is plenty for me.




.

[Jayelles]

Yes, there is a Bluecrab posting at jamesons saying that Burke didn't do it and that you've been kidding us all on that this was your theory:-

http://www.webbsleuths.org/dcforum/DCForumID61/33.html#26

:-)

[BlueCrab]

Yes, there is a Bluecrab posting at jamesons saying that Burke didn't do it and that you've been kidding us all on that this was your theory:-

http://www.webbsleuths.org/dcforum/DCForumID61/33.html#26

:-)


Jayelles,

Thanks for letting me know what Jameson is up to. The imposter over there sure knows a lot about my BDI theories, which may narrow down the number of persons who may be the imposter. I'm gonna start a new thread and smoke him out.

BlueCrab

[Miss Daisey]

Thank you Camper. Here's how I see it:

Political conservative billionaire Rupert Murdoch, who owns Fox, will probably fight the Ramsey v Fox News battle all the way to a court conclusion. Burke is not the main subject in this defamation lawsuit, so the litigants won't likely be forced to settle due to the Colorado Children's Code that protects the identities of children under 10 years of age.

The politically liberal news networks (CBS, NBC, and ABC) will likely continue to cooperate with the legal coverup that has been in place since 1999 and they will try to convince the public that an intruder killed JonBenet by continuing to give the Ramsey camp forums to present their views. Don't expect those networks to give a venue to those who know better.

Neither John Ramsey nor Patsy Ramsey killed JonBenet, so they will never be charged with anything -- including the obstruction of justice.

JMO

Not so fast , Blue Crab

There's still the option of The United States vs Whomever in a civil rights case for the denial of one JonBenet Ramsey the right to Life and Persuit of Happiness. Federal law over rides state law. That's probably the only way to route this case out of Colorado state.

That child deserves justice !

[TressaRing28]

Not so fast , Blue Crab

There's still the option of The United States vs Whomever in a civil rights case for the denial of one JonBenet Ramsey the right to Life and Persuit of Happiness. Federal law over rides state law. That's probably the only way to route this case out of Colorado state.

That child deserves justice !


Miss Daisey very good point.

[Camper]

My oldest son when around four years old would say something was 'Instressting'. Wonder if MR. L. WOOD tole the Ramseys that might be an option?

Miss Daisey, how come you are so smart ?, welcome! :clap:





.

[BlueCrab]

I see where the DNA of Susannah Chase's killer has been analyzed by DNAPrint genomics and the race of the unknown killer is believed to be Hispanic or Native American. They aren't quite sure. Susannah was the CU student raped and killed with an aluminum baseball bat on the street in downtown Boulder on the night of December 20, 1997, almost exactly one year after JonBenet was murdered. Susannah was returning home from a CU graduation party when attacked. There have been no leads in Susannah's murder except for the DNA the killer left behind.

But here's one small but interesting part of the Susannah Chase investigation that could be a lead. Susannah Chase was a long-distance runner. In fact, she loved the sport so well that in October of each year, Susannah's family in Connecticut sponsors a long-distance charity race in her honor.

Nathan Inouye, even though he has an Asian name, in his picture does not appear to be Asian. Genetically, it's hard to determine his ethnic background from his picture on the APAC website.

Nevertheless, Nathan Inouye, about to graduate from CU, would also have likely been at a CU graduation party in Boulder on the night of December 20, 1997. I also have the records of Nathan Inouye's favorite competitive sport. Nathan, like Susannah, was a long-distance runner.

JMO

[Camper]

For those of you who have not been to this thread " Visit to Grave Site", you can play catch up on Blue Crabs information here.




.

[Miss Daisey]

Blue Crab,

I also questioned whether the DNA in the Chase case could be that of an Asian as in the link via Sissi's post. Interesting.

Also, the sir name, Inouye, is Japanese, I believe. (There's a possiblity it's origian is Somoian). Wouldn't that put a crimp in the theory that S.B.T.C represented Asian countries if N (Japanese) were involved?

Further....this is off topic....I read that one of the investigating officers (?) had reported a window open where an extention cord ran outside the Ramsey home to the outside Christmas lights. Obviously, another possible site of entry to the home.

[BlueCrab]

Blue Crab,

I also questioned whether the DNA in the Chase case could be that of an Asian as in the link via Sissi's post. Interesting.

Also, the sir name, Inouye, is Japanese, I believe. (There's a possiblity it's origian is Somoian). Wouldn't that put a crimp in the theory that S.B.T.C represented Asian countries if N (Japanese) were involved?




Miss Daisey,

Why would that put a crimp in my theory that the initials S.B.T.C represent the respective countries of the individual APAC members involved in the APAC activity? The S, like you just said, could stand for Somoa. Asian Americans, like most of the rest of us in the USA, are often hybrids. That's why, IMO, Nathan Inouye probably has a Japanese background, but his facial features don't appear to be Asian, and his DNA might also be hard to identify in regard to ethnicity.

JMO

[Miss Daisey]

Blue Crab,

We're on the same "page". Your point is well made of mixed heritage. My point was that if he's Japanese with no connection to another ethnesity then that would not fit the theory.

What do you know about the extention cord for the outside Christmas lights?

[BlueCrab]

Blue Crab,

We're on the same "page". Your point is well made of mixed heritage. My point was that if he's Japanese with no connection to another ethnesity then that would not fit the theory.

What do you know about the extention cord for the outside Christmas lights?


Miss Daisey,

The extension cords for the outside Christmas lights went through a small hole in the furnace room window. It was impossible for a person to enter the basement that way.

IMO there was indeed a fifth, and perhaps a sixth, person in the house that night. But that person wasn't an uninvited intruder; he had obviously been invited in by a Ramsey, probably by Burke. Otherwise, there wouldn't be a need for the Ramsey lies, coverup, and obstruction of the investigation by the Ramseys. They would lie and coverup only for Burke, not an uninvited and unknown intruder.

JMO

[Camper]

Copying my stuff from the Visit the Grave thread per Blue Crab request

As follows:

Camper
Know all see all mom of 8

Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Colorado
Posts: 1,775


Hmmm

Interesting Sissi, I do not personally remember seeing or reading anything about the dna in Susanna's case.

I did some research at the time, and discovered that Susanna was quite an outdoors lover and into boating and water. She began competing running at a very young age, I seem to recall about 8 years old. I don't have my notes handy, they are buried in my garage after two moves in the last five years. So memory has dimmed as well. I felt so bad about her death, such a senseless act, for such a lovely young lady.

I vaguely remember that Pasta Jay's had kept a ball bat to discourage roudy students in his restaurant. Anyone else remember that? I am wondering if Pasta Jay's employee roster during that time might have had some of Blue Crabs Asian connection might have worked there. I dimly recall that JAR worked at Pasta Jay's while a student also.

I do also recall that Pasta Jay was not happy about the media hounding him, (because of his connection to John Ramsey and the restaurant) and took after two
men with a ball bat, who he thought were reporters - but that were just local folks.

I don't recall if the ball bat was found that killed Susanna!!

At one time, the Boulder Daily Camera Newspaper had quite a lot of links with information on Susanna Chase.

It would be interesting if there are any ex alumni of CU reading here that could tell us of any associations that Susanna belonged to, or if she was a popular figure
on campus, that might have drawn attention to 'the' perp who took her life?
===================================

Can you please source your statement that Susannah Chase was a distance runner? NATHAN INOUYE WAS A DISTANCE RUNNER.

EDITED: Never mind Camper. I see the info about Susannah being a runner in the link from Sissi's post.

jmo

Last edited by BlueCrab : Today at 04:54 AM.
--------------------

#19
Today, 06:35 AM
Camper
Know all see all mom of 8

Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Colorado
Posts: 1,775


Ohhhhhh Sissi

Quote:
Originally Posted by sissi
hmm.. Camper, you just reminded me of something, not sure if I remember it well enough to share, however there was an employee of Pasta's that was arrested for something ...maybe attacking someone with a knife..I think Jay himself..I believe his name was "gardiner" a homeless man who thought Pasta had murdered Jonbenet..delusional..schizzy type?

okay..I looked around a bit and found this...

http://news4colorado.com/topstories..._020190649.html




Camper
----------->>>Sissi what a marvelous source you have provided.

Blue Crab, I am stunned by the info about Nathan I, being a runner. How did you find that??? Lets hope some pictures come forth that show him at the graduation. Wonder if he had pizza that night at ABO's, and did he use a credit card for it!!! Don't know how long credit card records are kept, probably on a disc or spool somewhere, huh?

Where is the car that Susanna was raped in? I don't know the process on student info, does it include drivers license info, checking by license registration could show a VIN# perhaps tying Nathan I to 'the car'.

I have goose bumps on this one, I think we could perhaps have a bingo!!!!!!!

Sissi, I don't take any local papers since my husband died last year, and NEVER took the Boulder Daily Camera, thanks for the great source to read further
about Susanna. www.news4Colorado.com.

I prowled the net last night for info on Susanna, Google only had one source - Cyber Sleuths, and Boulder D. C. has no archives and NOTHING on Susanna
on line anyway anymore!!!!!!! Everything that WAS archived is NOW gone.

My time online, age, and care for hubby did not give me the zest for tracking this case like Blue Crab has.

Let us pray that we have found something of value for PD.

Nothing was mentioned about the hi=tec dna system and Asian blood detecting abilities.



Blue Crab

You've asked a lot of good questions in this post. However, to help keep everything involving Nathan and APAC on one thread, would you consider transferring this post, or one like it, to the "Ramsey Friend, Member of Foreign Faction, Never Investigated" thread? Thanks.

BlueCrab




Ok stuff transferred to here, did I miss anything?


.

[Miss Daisey]

Blue Crab,

I never said the "intruder" was a stranger or an "uninvited intruder"...rather a non resident in the Ramsey home. In an earlier post I believe I did title it "a stranger in the house", however, in response to another poster.

I note that Fleet White III doesn't appear in your theory of the kids being involved.

I'm having a difficult time with the idea of an adult being involved with the kids in this murder. It doesn't seem likely that he would trust their silence.

Until the host of the unidentified DNA has been found it would seem that the path of discovery would suggest who and how many persons were in the basement with JonBenet.

[Camper]

Just a note, about my/our re arranging of the deck furniture.

Another Question or two:

Question: Why would Ramseys leave the burglar alarm not engaged Christmas night?

My answer: Someone dear had not yet come home.
--------------------------------------------------

Question: Did the Ramsey children AND the Stine boy go somewhere else with the Stine boy's tutor Nathan Inouye, Christmas night?

My answer: Hmmm ??
--------------------------------------------------------

Question: Did just Burke and Stine boy go somewhere else Christmas night with Nathan I.?

MY answer: Maybe, this would explain the dif in Burke and John answer about whether JonBenet walked up the stairs or was carried. Maybe Burke did not know cuz he was not with the Ramseys when they returned from delivering Christmas packages after Whites party.

------------------end of my questions for now.


When I was working hard on Susanna Chase case, I was trying to make a connection with her boating history and the Ramseys boating. Susanna family were avid boaters as well. There was a lot in the Boulder Daily Cam archives on that, but all the archives are gone - on line anyway.



.

[Camper]

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=Movies+that+were+playing+in+Boulder+Christmas+ni ght+1996

When you get here click on this link:

Rocky Mountain News:
This link is an incredible source of easy to read evidence connected to the Ramsey case, and tons of very easy to see picture of the home etc.

Edited to add: Here is a better link:
http://www.rockymountainnews.com/drmn/local/article/0,1299,DRMN_15_408302,00.html

[b]The corrected link is a wonderful source for newbies LOTS of pictures, stun gun ?, and note picture of Burke's bedroom photo #42, perfectly made - looks unslept in. I realize that John spirited Burke out of the house that morning, did John make the bed before the crime photographers came?

snippet from the link:
References to popular movies: Language in the ransom note reflects that in several popular movies. The movie Ransom was playing in Boulder during December 1996, the month of JonBenet's death. It is the story of a child taken hostage for money. In addition, Smit said, there are references in the ransom note that echo lines in similar movies, such as Dirty Harry, Speed, Nick of Time and Ruthless People. The Ramseys didn't have such movies in their home, and hadn't
seen those movies, Smit said.'

Did Nathan I go to this movie alone or with someone, OR the Ramsey children and Stine boy? Likely imop.

Check out the picture of JonBenet bedroom near bottom just past the snippet above.

It appears to me that IF IF IF the children went somewhere with Nathan I, that she never ever went to her bedroom that night after they came home. This is a whole new thought for
me after a great time has elapsed since last I looked at the picture of her bedroom.


.

[Miss Daisey]

Thank you Camper. Here's how I see it:

Political conservative billionaire Rupert Murdoch, who owns Fox, will probably fight the Ramsey v Fox News battle all the way to a court conclusion. Burke is not the main subject in this defamation lawsuit, so the litigants won't likely be forced to settle due to the Colorado Children's Code that protects the identities of children under 10 years of age.

The politically liberal news networks (CBS, NBC, and ABC) will likely continue to cooperate with the legal coverup that has been in place since 1999 and they will try to convince the public that an intruder killed JonBenet by continuing to give the Ramsey camp forums to present their views. Don't expect those networks to give a venue to those who know better.

Neither John Ramsey nor Patsy Ramsey killed JonBenet, so they will never be charged with anything -- including the obstruction of justice.

JMO

Rupert Murdoch's wealth trumps the Ramseys by a BUNCH. Wouldn't it be interesting if the judge allowed evidence about BR by Fox News in defense of their statements? After all, that's the purpose of a suit....a challenge to "prove it" or start writting that check.

There HAS to be a way (IMO) to move this case away from the Colorado courts.

I keep hoping a "former Federal Prosecutor" is reading the forum and will jump in here with some thoughts on the issue.

IMO

[BlueCrab]

There HAS to be a way (IMO) to move this case away from the Colorado courts.




Miss Daisey,

Ramsey v Fox News is a federal case. It was filed by the Ramseys in Atlanta's federal court.

JMO

[BlueCrab]

Camper,

Thanks for transferring that post on the "Gravesite" thread to this thread. I'd like to keep the Nathan and APAC questions, information and related comments together on this thread for the sake of future reference.

BlueCrab

[Miss Daisey]

Blue Crab,

Thank you. I thought it was but didn't I read that it had been moved to Colorado because it was more convinient(sp) for the Ramsey's? or was that another suit among the dozens of other folks they're suing.

How would it make it more convinient? The Ramseys live in Mn.

[BlueCrab]

Blue Crab,

Thank you. I thought it was but didn't I read that it had been moved to Colorado because it was more convinient(sp) for the Ramsey's? or was that another suit among the dozens of other folks they're suing.

How would it make it more convinient? The Ramseys live in Mn.


Miss Daisey,

Almost all of the documents and witnesses for the Ramsey v Fox News lawsuit are in Colorado.

JMO

[Miss Daisey]

Blue Crab,

How cool is THAT? And convinient, too ! :banghead:

[BlueCrab]

As I previously mentioned, Nathan Inouye was one of the 29 members of the Asian Pacific American Coalition at Colorado University, which folded shortly after the murder of JonBenet. APAC held bi-weekly meetings. Here's a sample of its programs during the meetings (this information is taken verbatim from APAC's website):

1995 -- "Kip Fulbeck delivers the observations and experiences of Asian men in America. He attacks media representation of Asian men, interracial dating patterns, cultural icons, and selling out."

1995 -- "Who killed Vincent Chin? is a film written by Christine Choy, a pioneer filmmaker in the Asian-American community."

1995 -- "Asian American activism and grassroots movements. Speaker Angela Eumjin Oh talks about racism and poor people. Ms. Oh is an attorney and also a community activist and advocate for civil rights and human rights causes."

1996 -- "Making Waves: Asians in Action': a Colorado performance group, 'Here and Now', presented experiences by and about Asian-American women."

1996 -- "Speaker Peter Kwong talked about the exploitation of illegal labor brought from China."

APAC's programs for 1997 that were scheduled but apparently abandoned following JonBenet's murder included:

"Hello (Sex) Kitty': Denise Uyehara is an internationally acclaimed actress, playwright, author, poet, and activist. She performs a one-woman performance which exposes issues of sexism and sexual oppression of the Asian-American experience. Denise Urehara discusses and exposes issues of homosexuality and bisexuality pertaining to Asian-Americans from the point of view of its women."

Among other programs on APAC's agenda for 1997, but cancelled when APAC disbanded, included "Bringing in professor, author, and activist, Debbie Wey. Debbie Wey will discuss various issues which currently affect the Asian-American community, and give suggestions on what steps of action one may take to remedy them."

JMO

[Camper]

Isn't that instresssting (as my 4 yr old used to say)! Sorta like me going to another country to make my way or go to school in that country, then standing on the street corner complaining about the way I am treated there.

To quote a black brother, sup with that?

My advice to that group would be to go to a different country and try that tune out on another piano, if there is a piano there.



Question: Blue Crab, where and how funded is the dna lab doing the ethnic dna testing on the Chase case?



.

[Miss Daisey]

As I previously mentioned, Nathan Inouye was one of the 29 members of the Asian Pacific American Coalition at Colorado University, which folded shortly after the murder of JonBenet. APAC held bi-weekly meetings. Here's a sample of its programs during the meetings (this information is taken verbatim from APAC's website):

1995 -- "Kip Fulbeck delivers the observations and experiences of Asian men in America. He attacks media representation of Asian men, interracial dating patterns, cultural icons, and selling out."

1995 -- "Who killed Vincent Chin? is a film written by Christine Choy, a pioneer filmmaker in the Asian-American community."

1995 -- "Asian American activism and grassroots movements. Speaker Angela Eumjin Oh talks about racism and poor people. Ms. Oh is an attorney and also a community activist and advocate for civil rights and human rights causes."

1996 -- "Making Waves: Asians in Action': a Colorado performance group, 'Here and Now', presented experiences by and about Asian-American women."

1996 -- "Speaker Peter Kwong talked about the exploitation of illegal labor brought from China."

APAC's programs for 1997 that were scheduled but apparently abandoned following JonBenet's murder included:

"Hello (Sex) Kitty': Denise Uyehara is an internationally acclaimed actress, playwright, author, poet, and activist. She performs a one-woman performance which exposes issues of sexism and sexual oppression of the Asian-American experience. Denise Urehara discusses and exposes issues of homosexuality and bisexuality pertaining to Asian-Americans from the point of view of its women."

Among other programs on APAC's agenda for 1997, but cancelled when APAC disbanded, included "Bringing in professor, author, and activist, Debbie Wey. Debbie Wey will discuss various issues which currently affect the Asian-American community, and give suggestions on what steps of action one may take to remedy them."

JMOOK. Got it. But you've just made the case for a "intruder". ie "uninvited intruder" or as I said, "non resident of the Ramsey household". When you tie that to the RN it makes sense to me.

May I suggest that BR SAW someone he recognized on the 2nd floor of the Ramsey home that night and was too frightened to ever admit he knows whom he saw?

the reference to "fat cat" in the RN is a term that I can't apply to a 4th grader. It sounds like a radical "left coast" term. IMO

[BlueCrab]

OK. Got it. But you've just made the case for a "intruder". ie "uninvited intruder" or as I said, "non resident of the Ramsey household". When you tie that to the RN it makes sense to me.




Miss Daisey,

There was no uninvited intruder. The Ramseys wouldn't be lying their asses off, throwing monkey wrenches into the investigative machinery, and covering up the crime, to protect the identity of an intruder whom they don't even know. They would do this ONLY if a family member was involved in the crime, and then probably only if that family member was Burke.

JMO

[mihaff]

the reference to "fat cat" in the RN is a term that I can't apply to a 4th grader. It sounds like a radical "left coast" term. IMO
It sounds like a woman who is trying unsuccessfully to sound like a man in a small foreign faction. maybe a patsy ramsey type. imo

[BlueCrab]

The person who was impersonating me over on Jameson's Webbsleuths JonBenet temporarily open forum has been uncovered as a phony. I knew this, of course, but it wasn't easy to prove that he was a phony on an open forum where anyone can post using any "hat" he wishes. It was an interesting and revealing incident that went on for over 100 posts on that thread.

The fake BlueCrab apparently tried to obfuscate my BDI theories and destroy my credibility. But why? It was obviously someone with an intense interest in the case, an interest that seemed to perk sharply when Nathan Inouye or APAC were mentioned.

"Thou doth protest too much" guided my thinking about who the imposter might be. The imposter had obviously thoroughly studied my posts over the last couple of years and knew my BDI theories to a tee. The only internet poster I know of who ever did that is DocWatson.

DocWatson has publicly admitted that he was previously known as DrC. It was DrC who, almost two years ago, reportedly sent an e-mail to Nathan Inouye "ratting me out" to him, so to speak, about my internet postings revealing Nathan's full name and about his association with the Stines and the Ramseys, and about Nathan's membership in APAC.

DrC's reported e-mail to Nathan and Nathan's reported reply to DrC that he was home in California on Christmas day of 1996, begins to ring hollow following the recent impersonation of me over on Jameson's Webbsleuths. I'd like to clear up this matter. Here's what DrC posted (exact wording and typos) in 2003 when I quizzed him about the e-mails he sent to Nathan and what Nathan's response was:

"BC,
This was my original query. I included link to WS but Nathan didn't copy this on his reply and I didn't keep originl:
<doctorc22@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> You probably already know this, but did you know
>> there was a poster named
>> Bluecrab who keeps naming you as one involved in the
>> killing of JonBenet?"

DrC then went on and typed long e-mails on the WS forum, which were reportedly messages between himself and Nathan. In Nathan's reported e-mail he states he was home in California when JonBenet was murdered.

DocWatson is likely reading this, so I'd like to ask him two questions:

1. DocWatson, we know you were DrC, but were you also the person who was impersonating BlueCrab at Jameson's Webbsleuths open forum several days ago? (I personally hold you harmless no matter what your response might be.)

2. DocWatson, are you Nathan Inouye?


JMO

BlueCrab

[Miss Daisey]

As I previously mentioned, Nathan Inouye was one of the 29 members of the Asian Pacific American Coalition at Colorado University, which folded shortly after the murder of JonBenet. APAC held bi-weekly meetings. Here's a sample of its programs during the meetings (this information is taken verbatim from APAC's website):

1995 -- "Kip Fulbeck delivers the observations and experiences of Asian men in America. He attacks media representation of Asian men, interracial dating patterns, cultural icons, and selling out."

1995 -- "Who killed Vincent Chin? is a film written by Christine Choy, a pioneer filmmaker in the Asian-American community."

1995 -- "Asian American activism and grassroots movements. Speaker Angela Eumjin Oh talks about racism and poor people. Ms. Oh is an attorney and also a community activist and advocate for civil rights and human rights causes."

1996 -- "Making Waves: Asians in Action': a Colorado performance group, 'Here and Now', presented experiences by and about Asian-American women."

1996 -- "Speaker Peter Kwong talked about the exploitation of illegal labor brought from China."

APAC's programs for 1997 that were scheduled but apparently abandoned following JonBenet's murder included:

"Hello (Sex) Kitty': Denise Uyehara is an internationally acclaimed actress, playwright, author, poet, and activist. She performs a one-woman performance which exposes issues of sexism and sexual oppression of the Asian-American experience. Denise Urehara discusses and exposes issues of homosexuality and bisexuality pertaining to Asian-Americans from the point of view of its women."

Among other programs on APAC's agenda for 1997, but cancelled when APAC disbanded, included "Bringing in professor, author, and activist, Debbie Wey. Debbie Wey will discuss various issues which currently affect the Asian-American community, and give suggestions on what steps of action one may take to remedy them."

JMO
Blue Crab,

Let's try it one more time. You keep saying, "there was no intruder"

What's the point of your investigation into APAC and Nathan Inouye if he couldn't have been considered an "uninvited intruder" into the Ramsey home...whether Burke let him in or not? !

To further define "intruder": One who trespasses on ones private property without the homeowners permission....in the middle of the night....on Christmas night....and murders one's child".

I understand you have more than one theory but can't decided where the heck you're going with NI and APAC when you're so certain that Burke played a material roll in this murder. I certainly KNOW that Patsy wouldn't cover for Nathan...and would only protect her son.

[BlueCrab]

Blue Crab,

Let's try it one more time. You keep saying, "there was no intruder"

What's the point of your investigation into APAC and Nathan Inouye if he couldn't have been considered an "uninvited intruder" into the Ramsey home...whether Burke let him in or not? !

.


Miss Daisey,

Please don't quote me unless you are sure what I said. I didn't say there was no intruder. I said there was no UNKNOWN intruder.

If a Ramsey, any Ramsey, invited a known person into the house, that person cannot be considered an intruder, even if the rest of the Ramseys are madder than hell about it. That's why, in the Ramsey case, I prefer saying "There was a fifth person in the house."

If there was a fifth person in the house that night, then Burke almost HAD to have known who it was. Otherwise, there would be no reason for the Ramseys to be involved in a coverup. They wouldn't cover up for anyone else but Burke -- not even for each other.

JMO

[Miss Daisey]

Miss Daisey,

There was no uninvited intruder. The Ramseys wouldn't be lying their asses off, throwing monkey wrenches into the investigative machinery, and covering up the crime, to protect the identity of an intruder whom they don't even know. They would do this ONLY if a family member was involved in the crime, and then probably only if that family member was Burke.

JMO

Blue Crab,

"There was no "uninvited intruder"". (See above)

If you want to change it to "unknown intruder" it's fine with me. I won't split hairs over it but now we're clear on a diffinition.

It would seem that your previously stated "serveral theories" are beginning to merge into one.

_____________________________________________
In my opinion

[BlueCrab]

Blue Crab,

It would seem that your previously stated "serveral theories" are beginning to merge into one.



Miss Daisey,

I hope not. There are still too many unknowns in this case to get locked into one theory.

JMO

[sissi]

I can understand why you would believe there was no "unknown" intruder, however, I would disagree when determining his "invitation" into the house.
I will not, can not believe that with a busy schedule and a family planned "quick" get together there would have been any invited guests ,either for the evening visit or for the trip. Later, yes, when they were returning home to ready for the Disney boat, I could understand hiring or inviting someone to go along to help with the kids.
Of course I do not believe the Ramseys are hiding or covering , I believe they honestly don't have answers and have had a lot of bad press.
I believe,as well, it is very possible Jonbenet knew her killer, or knew the accomplice of the killer, but I don't have a really solid clue as to who they are.

[BlueCrab]

[QUOTE=sissi
I will not, can not believe that with a busy schedule and a family planned "quick" get together there would have been any invited guests ,either for the evening visit or for the trip.[/QUOTE]

sissi,

The kids didn't have to pack and prep for the trip. The parents did that. The kids could have stayed up all night playing, and planning to sleep during the long flight to Michigan the next morning.

The Stines' were the last house the Ramseys visited on their return ride from the White's dinner party that night. It was Christmas and none of the children had full opportunity to play with some of their new toys -- such as Burke's new Nintendo.

to alleviate that problem, when the Ramseys left the Stines' house Doug could have joined them, and Nathan could have come along as a babysitter so the parents could get to bed early. Doug and Nathan, living just five blocks away, would have been dropped off on the way to the airport the next morning.

I'm not sure whether Nathan was even in town that day, but if he was then that could be one of the reasons there was no traditional Ramsey video tape of the events on Christmas day. Nathan could be in the tape.

JMO

[sissi]

I don't believe Burke would have held to lies and secrets in an interview ,by a professional, designed to uncover inconsistencies. There is the hole in this theory, IMO. It is MO as well, that Burke and the Ramseys really do not know what happened. Didn't Smart's little sister hold the secret for a short while, minutes, while under great fear that the someone who took her sister could harm her, as well? Wasn't she the same age as Burke? It's my belief that children can drop the secret when they feel they are safe.

[Camper]

Good points BC and Sissi.

I do think that family's that live hyper and very active lives do things on spur of the moment, that might take others a week to plan for.

I have written three different scenarios on what happened after the movie. Many cracks to be filled in.

Lots of sameness to the Ramsey ransom note and the movie Ransom.

Bet the White boy knows where Burke and Doug went that night, IF IF they did go to the movie.

I don't recall much being said about Burke and Doug at the Whites party, anyone else remember what they were doing? We had a whole set up about the fathers playing dolls with the girls on the floor, but where and what were the boys doing at the White's party?? HAD they left and gone to a movie?
Were they dressed up to the nines like the girls?



.


.

[BlueCrab]

Where was ***** ***** on Christmas night?

There were four people living at the home of the Stines -- Glen Stine, his wife Susan Stine, their 9-year-old son ***** *****, and teenage college student ***** *****.

This is far from a smoking gun, but Patsy's use of the plural word "friends" in her following response, instead of the singular word "friend", suggests that ***** could have been in the Stines' house on Christmas night.

From the 1998 police interviews (Patsy was being questioned about their drive home from the White's):

TOM HANEY: "And how many stops did you make along the way?"

PATSY RAMSEY: "Two."

TOM HANEY: "And these were at?"

PATSY RAMSEY: "The Walkers and the Stines."

TOM HANEY: "And you took some presents up to both of them?"

PATSY RAMSEY: "Right."

TOM HANEY: "Did anybody take presents up with you?"

PATSY RAMSEY: "Best as I remember, we went to the Walker's first and I took this bottle of perfume to Roxie. And then we went to the Stines and I had a basket of things to give to them. And I think I went by myself. Burke may have jumped out of the car, because it's his friends."

TOM HANEY: "The Stines?"

PATSY RAMSEY: "The Stines. So it was either -- it was either just myself or maybe Burke and myself."


There were just two people living at the Stines whom Burke could consider friends -- ***** and *****. If he jumped out of the car to see his FRIENDS, then ***** was there and not home in California.

JMO

[Miss Daisey]

Blue Crab,

I wouldn't put too much into the text of Patsy saying, "because it's his 'friends'". I'm from the deep south too and I might have read that to mean, because it's his friend's home. In that case, friends is singular. But, of course, she did answer that the Stines were the friends she refered to. Perhaps Nathan was considered one of the family members.

It does seem somewhat unlikely that Nathan had slipped below the radar for so long. The Stines were in positions to observe his behavior...not just his but many young students his age. IOW, in their positions, they know what these guys are like at that age. It would seem the police would have questioned him from the get-go. There doesn't appear to be any reason why the Stines wouldn't have mentioned him to the police...or the Ramseys either but, apparently, they didn't.....for several years.

[BlueCrab]

It does seem somewhat unlikely that ****** had slipped below the radar for so long. The ******s were in positions to observe his behavior...not just his but many young students his age. IOW, in their positions, they know what these guys are like at that age. It would seem the police would have questioned him from the get-go. There doesn't appear to be any reason why the ******s wouldn't have mentioned him to the police...or the Ramseys either but, apparently, they didn't.....for several years.



Miss Daisey,

It appears that both ****** ****** and ****** ****** were being kept under the radar. Here's my evidence:

When the paperback edition of Laurence Schiller's "Perfect Murder Perfect Town" was about to be published in 1999, the publisher's presses were being held up until the Ramsey grand jury, after investigating the case for 13 months, made its announcement re' indictments and permanently adjourned. Schiller's PMPT became the bible for the case because it had a name index in the back of it for easy reference that had about 500 names of people who had been interviewed or involved somehow in the case.

The grand jury permanently adjourned in October of 1999 stating that, due to a lack of evidence, no indictments would be issued at this time; and the court immediately slapped a protective order on the case.

Schiller then hurriedly made the necessary updates in his book and PMPT went on sale. Despite about 500 names in Schiller's book, ****** ******'s name appears just once in the text and ****** ******'s name doesn't appear at all.

But checking the names listed in the name index in the back of the book and comparing them to the names actually in the text, we find that "****** ******" was referenced nine times in the name index, even though "****** ******" appeared only once in the text. It looks like ******'s name had been purged from the text, except for one place, at the last minute -- but the editors didn't have time or forgot to remove his name from the name index where it remained listed multiple times.

****** ******'s name, amazingly, doesn't appear at all in the name index nor in the text of PMPT.

By way of comparison, "Burke Ramsey" appears 63 times in the name index and "Burke Ramsey" appears 62 times in the text (there was one typo).

What does this tell us? I don't know about you, but it tells me that Schiller had been pressured to edit his book to conform with the court protective order. That in turn tells me the grand jury likely solved the case, children too young to prosecute were involved, and the Colorado Children's Code kicked in. The Code protects the identities of children under 10 years of age who are involved in a major crime.

What I DON'T know is, was the grand jury even aware of ****** ******'s existence?

JMO

[BlueCrab]

Well, it looks like DocWatson is no longer on the WS membership list.

I wish he would have stayed long enough to answer my questions posed to him on a post earlier on this thread:

1. Were you the BlueCrab imposter on Jameson's forum last week?

2. Are you Nathan Inouye?

JMO

[Camper]

Well, it looks like DocWatson is no longer on the WS membership list.

I wish he would have stayed long enough to answer my questions posed to him on a post earlier on this thread:

1. Were you the BlueCrab imposter on Jameson's forum last week?

2. Are you Nathan Inouye?

JMO





----------------->>>Now that Doc seems to have been colored gone gone, I seem to recall that he mostly replied to posts by you, BlueCrab. He responded to me one time only that I remember. Do any of the rest of posters here on JonBenet, remember him responding to you???

So, IF IF I am correct in my memory, it would seem that he had a real bone to pick with BlueCrab.

I could have checked his posts, but now they are gone, gone.

Bingo or shall we check our cards again?

Wonder IF IF he kept his movie stub? Nah probably not.




.

[BlueCrab]

I don't believe Burke would have held to lies and secrets in an interview ,by a professional, designed to uncover inconsistencies. There is the hole in this theory, IMO.


sissi,

IMO Burke knows everything. But it apparently hasn't been easy for him to continue with the lies and to withhold the secrets, but he did. The counseling Burke has received in the past has also likely helped him to keep it together.

In June of 1998 the Ramseys, including Burke, were interviewed separately for three days by the police. Burke was 11 by then. Here's Patsy being interviewed by Tom Haney:

TOM HANEY: " ... but have you seen changes in Burke since the incident?"

PATSY RAMSEY: "Um, he's grown like a weed. I think he's a little more cautious, you know, looking around, see if anybody is parked where they shouldn't be parked. You know, locks the door when he comes in and goes out. You know, those kinds of things."

TOM HANEY: "How about with the moving and all of that, has that caused some problems for him, change of schools?"

PATSY RAMSEY: "Yeah. And I have been in touch with the counselors and the teachers and everybody, alert to this. And they said that -- they are remarkably surprised at how well he is doing. He just makes friends and gets good grades."

TOM HANEY: "So his adjustment's been pretty ..."

PATSY RAMSEY: "Been pretty good."

TOM HANEY: "You mentioned I think when I asked you yesterday, had you seen an interview from last week with Burke. You said no?"

PATSY RAMSEY: "No."

TOM HANEY: "There were like three days, and the first two days were pretty basic questions, but on the third day, there were questions where the discussion was around JonBenet and the death. And I am no psychologist, psychiatrist, but immediately noticed a change in Burke and his demeanor. He's curled up on the chair something like this, not sitting like this, and he's half in a fetal position and it seems to be a real struggle, a real difficult time. I am wondering if you had noticed anything similar, any changes?"

PATSY RAMSEY: "Well, I may have -- I have had him in therapy just for this reason. So that, I mean, the therapist explained to me that -- that Burke may be trying to hold it together and be real strong for John and I, you know."

TOM HANEY: "Does it seem like he knows more than he's saying, and obviously he's not saying much?

PATSY RAMSEY: "Right."

JMO

BlueCrab

[Jayelles]

Well, it looks like DocWatson is no longer on the WS membership list.

I wish he would have stayed long enough to answer my questions posed to him on a post earlier on this thread:

1. Were you the BlueCrab imposter on Jameson's forum last week?

2. Are you Nathan Inouye?

JMO
BlueCrab, jameson posted the BlueCrab imposter's IP numbers on her forum, but deleted them again rather quickly. I have to go out right now, but in an hour or so, I shall PM them to you and you can check them out for yourself (I'll send you instructions for doing this).

[Camper]

Good for you Jayelles. Hope you can narrow down our suspicious person BlueCrab.

Note: Several years ago a poster was doing me dirt, and it was determined that the poster was going a circuitous route through several ISP's to hide their identity.

'Our' BlueCrab imposter might not have been so savvy, good luck.

Interesting last comment by Patsy in the transcript.

Yes someone besides the 'drooling' perp knows more than they are saying. Even Patsy said so in the famous CNN broadcast after the murder. Something to the effect, that at least two people know something. I remember this, but do not have the exact verbage. Anyone feel free to quote her comment precisely please.

So HOW would PR know that well enough to pronounce it to a Global audience?

Our BIG question here on WS is just WHO is it that KNOWS the 'truth'.




.

[BlueCrab]

Well, it looks like DocWatson is no longer on the WS membership list.

I wish he would have stayed long enough to answer my questions posed to him on a post earlier on this thread:

1. Were you the BlueCrab imposter on Jameson's forum last week?

2. Are you Nathan Inouye?

JMO


Here's what is known so far in regard to the two questions posed to DocWatson:

1. Were you the BlueCrab imposter on Jameson's forum last week? The answer appears to be YES, there is evidence that points to DocWatson as the imposter.

2. Are you Nathan Inouye? The answer appears to be NO, unless Nathan was not in California at that time (last weekend). The BlueCrab imposter's five different ISP's were from North Carolina and Virginia. The most significant one was from Duke University in Durham, NC, which normally only students and faculty would have access to.

It would take a court subpoenae to further identify exactly what computers the BlueCrab imposter used to make his posts.

Thank you, Jayelles, in helping substantially with this.

BlueCrab

JMO

[BlueCrab]

Here's what is known so far in regard to the two questions posed to DocWatson:

1. Were you the BlueCrab imposter on Jameson's forum last week? The answer appears to be YES, there is evidence that points to DocWatson as the imposter.

2. Are you Nathan Inouye? The answer appears to be NO, unless Nathan was not in California at that time (last weekend). The BlueCrab imposter's five different ISP's were from North Carolina and Virginia. The most significant one was from Duke University in Durham, NC, which normally only students and faculty would have access to.

It would take a court subpoena to further identify exactly what computers the BlueCrab imposter used to make his posts.

Thank you, Jayelles, in helping substantially with this.

BlueCrab

JMO



It appears that the imposter BlueCrab (most likely DocWatson) probably posted his fraudulent messages from Duke University. There are, incidentally, two Inouye's at Duke:

Ronald B. Inouye is a PhD candidate in computer science.

Ken Inouye is involved in D.U.M.E. on the campus (Duke University Music Exchange).

JMO

[Camper]

As church lady (Dana Carvey) would say, "Now isn't that interesting".

Wonder what/which/whose computer Doc is using to read here, now that he is no longer a member?

The name ***** as populated in America might be rather small, who knows. BUT, and there is always a BUT, I find it strange that this particular Doc-found it impelling to rebut the ***** connection to the murder of JonBenet.

You could perhaps believe it to be an ongoing opinion by the phony Bluecrab, IF IF IF IF he/she had been an OLDTIMER WS poster.

BUT to show up recently when our thoughts have turned to the EXACT location and activities of one ***** I, on December 26, 1996, seems to have great weight to the case, in my mind at least.

:clap: :clap: to WS BlueCrab, keep it going!



.

[Miss Daisey]

Camper,

I agree. One might consider a Jones,Brown,Smith or Black....but an Inouye is just too much of a coinsidence. IMO

[TLynn]

How can Patsy NOT remember if Burke went with her to the Stine's door on Christmas night?

And, whose house did they not make it to - I remember there was another basket not delivered that night.

[BlueCrab]

How can Patsy NOT remember if Burke went with her to the Stine's door on Christmas night?

And, whose house did they not make it to - I remember there was another basket not delivered that night.


TLynn,

You're right, of course Patsy remembered. She was using Patsyese when responding to the question so as not to be pinned down later. It's Patsy's MO when being questioned.

The Ramseys didn't make it to the Fernie's house -- the third stop they had planned after leaving the White's house. Their excuse was it was getting too late.

JMO

[Camper]

TLynn,

You're right, of course Patsy remembered. She was using Patsyese when responding to the question so as not to be pinned down later. It's Patsy's MO when being questioned.

The Ramseys didn't make it to the Fernie's house -- the third stop they had planned after leaving the White's house. Their excuse was it was getting too late.

JMO




--------->>>I prefer my coined word of about 7 years ago, Ramnesia. OK TLynn, do WE remember what it was that was not delivered, was it a coffee assortment? In other words a gift that would not spoil when left to be delivered AFTER they returned from MI? My memory is dim on what the gifts were.

A tiny review here, I think this is a MIGHTY tidbit, that Burke remembers and states JonBenet WALKED up the stairs Christmas night when the 'family' returned from the Whites, and John remembers and states that he lovingly carried JonBenet up the stairs when the family returned from the Whites.

Ramnesia, had already infected Burke, no no no, IMOP, Burke said that because he was NOT with the family when they returned home that night.



.

[BlueCrab]

A RECAP OF THIS THREAD

Here's what we have so far as I see it:


1. Not until almost four years after the murder of JonBenet Ramsey by people purporting to be representing members of a "small foreign faction", do the cops find out that Ramsey family friend ***** *****, a member of such a group, even existed.

2. ***** ***** was a member of the 29-member Asian Pacific American Coalition at Colorado University, also known as APAC. APAC had a politically liberal pro-active agenda that could be interpreted as wanting to avenge what it perceived as unfair justice afforded Asian American females who have been victims of violence in America. JonBenet's body, with likely stun gun injuries on it, showed evidence of her having been tortured. APAC disbanded several weeks after JonBenet was murdered.

3. ***** ***** babysat, drove JonBenet to school, knew the layout of the Ramsey house, and lived at the home of the Stines. The Ramseys and Stines were best friends, as were their respective sons Burke and Doug.

4. At least as of August of 2000 neither ***** ***** nor any of the 29 members of APAC had been known about, much less investigated by the police.

5. It was discovered that Susannah Chase, murdered on the street in Boulder one year after JonBenet was murdered, was a long distance runner. Susannah had been run down and battered on the head with a child's aluminum baseball bat. A child's aluminum baseball bat, found in the Ramsey's yard, could also have been the weapon that split JonBenet's skull in two. ***** *****, like Susannah, was a long distance runner.

6. A poster on WS who went by the name of DocWatson, and before that went by the name of DrC, showed intense defensive interest when ***** ***** and APAC were discussed on WS. This interest progressed to apparent desperation when someone, and the evidence points to DocWatson, fraudulently assumed the name of BlueCrab, claimed he was me, and made numerous posts on another forum saying BlueCrab believed just the opposite of what he had been posting for years on the WS forum.

7. The posts from the fake BlueCrab were traced to an ISP on the campus of Duke University in Durham, NC. There are two *****'s on the campus at Duke -- Ronald ***** and Ken *****. ***** ***** lives and works in California.

JMO

[Camper]

of my mind I am remembering that Pasta Jay chased two innocent locals with a ball bat, because the thought they were media. I am also dimly remembering that somewhere I read that a 'ball bat' was kept in the Pasta Jay restaurant to threaten roudy customers. Does anyone remember that tidbit?

Certainly ex CU young student employees of Pasta Jay's would remember that. Perhaps a childs size bat would have been more appropriate for such a purpose in that type of setting.

As I recall also the alley access to Pasta Jay's was from the same alley that Susanna Chase ran in the night she was murdered.

Anyone have printed material to back my memory up on this?
Wonder how late Pasta Jays was open the night of Susanna's murder? OR how long closing clean up took that night, and who might have been on duty that night IF IF IF they were open late. IT was a festive graduation celebration time in Boulder, so perhaps they might have stayed open later in the evening.

ALSO where did the employees of Pasta Jays park their cars? IF IF the murderer was a fast runner, and had to go get their car, where was it, how close? Of course then we have to wonder just where the car is TODAY.





.

[BlueCrab]

With respect to tying the 1996 JonBenet Ramsey murder to the 1997 Susannah Chase murder, Boulder authorities need go no further than the DNA route.

The police now have what is likely the DNA of JonBenet's killer; and they have the DNA of Susannah Chase's killer. I hope they've made the comparison between the two by this time.

Nevertheless, IMO it wouldn't hurt to obtain DNA samples of the 29 members of the Asian Pacific American Coalition. APAC's sudden disbandment almost immediately following the murder of JonBenet is especially suspicious.

JMO

[Nehemiah]

BlueCrab, jameson posted the BlueCrab imposter's IP numbers on her forum, but deleted them again rather quickly. I have to go out right now, but in an hour or so, I shall PM them to you and you can check them out for yourself (I'll send you instructions for doing this).

Jayelles, just curious as to why she would post these and then delete them? What reasoning is behind that?

[Jayelles]

Jayelles, just curious as to why she would post these and then delete them? What reasoning is behind that?
I would be speculating only. It could be that she was demonstrating respect for posters' privacy - although I doubt that as she has posted IPs before. OTOH, it could be that she realised that another forum might recognise the IP. I really don't know. She also posted my IP at the same time. That was interesting because I checked it out of curiosity and it showed up as me being in Amsterdam! I thought "New Year was good, but it wasn't THAT good - I think I would have remembered the journey...." So I checked it using a different Whois service and it correctly came up as me being in the South of England (which I am not, but my ISP is).

[Camper]

Jayelles, just curious as to why she would post these and then delete them? What reasoning is behind that?




--------->>>>Nehemiah, maybe she had a pang of conscience and wanted to prove that 'she' was not the imposter, nah, huh, er.

She should have learned the courtesy route by now, and that would be IF IF IF 'WE' all wanted our REAL identities known to every flake on the planet 'WE' would use our REAL names instead of our nice hats.

I have a very olde hat here on WS.

Wonder HOW long the new DNA process has been in existence, glad someone in Boulder got hip to it.

Yes the two DNA's matching would indeed be a BINGO.




.

[BlueCrab]

Please do not speculate about the identity of another poster.

[Camper]

I missed the deleted post, thats what I get for spending the day out of town attending a birthday party.

To all posters in general, since posting on WS for so many years, any case that I worked on, IF IF IF I thought I had a brilliant point that could turn a case around, I have not hesitated to send the information to Law Enforcement, RATHER THAN POST IT ON THE FORUM.

The title of this thread was just enough to alert someone with Law Enforcement authority on something to INVESTIGATE.

Governor Owens has letters from me on this case, I have received responses from LE and the Gov. Gov response has always been a bobbling head type of form letter. My other case 'thoughts' have been responded to with the name of the detective who was given my information.

I am always suspicious about NEWBIE posters who have made 'few' posts, newbies with attitudes. It is so close to Christmas, some folks no doubt have NEW puters and come running to the JonBenet forum to voice their thoughts.

Right now I have a suspicion about a NEW poster who I believe may be an olde poster re-invented, with a new hat and strange 'attitude'.

Life goes on, but NOT JonBenets. This forum is about JonBenet. Lets not let her be lost in the muddle of someone that came 'NEW' with an agenda. SOMEONE DID in fact KILL JonBenet, WHO?

Where there is smoke, beware of fire.




.

[BlueCrab]

Re' ***** *****,

There's enough evidence in the Ramsey case to go almost anywhere with a theory about who killed JonBenet. The problem is there's always some exculpatory evidence that eventually pops up and short circuits most of the theories. IMO this hasn't happened yet with respect to the theory outlined in this thread. Therefore, I'll continue investigating *****'s possible involvement in the death of JonBenet until ***** or someone else proves I'm heading down the wrong path with this theory.

The most extreme of my BDI theories is that Burke and his 9-year-old friend let a person into the house that night who ended up torturing, raping, and killing JonBenet in a fit of vengeance for perceived injustices against his race, particularly the females of his race. A stun gun was used as one of the means of torture. As a member of APAC, ***** ***** or one of the 29 members of APAC, could have fitted that "small foreign faction" scenario described in the ransom note left behind by the killers.

*****, as noted earlier in this thread, volunteered in the Peace Corps after college and served in Kingston, Jamaica from 1999 to 2001. His work title in Jamaica was "Environmental Promoter". After completing his service in Jamaica, ***** obtained his master's degree in education at UCLA and is now teaching science at a high school in California.

The Peace Corps volunteers stick together and keep in touch after completing their tours in Jamaica. In 2002 the Peace Corps sent a form to all of its returned volunteers to bring everyone up to date on what's happening in their respective lives. At the end of his questionnaire ***** mysteriously answered the question "Any message for returned volunteers?" with two words, "Walk Good". That's all he wrote, just, Walk Good.

It turns out that Walk Good is the title of a book written by Roland Reimer about his personal experiences in Negril, Jamaica. Reimer takes the reader into some of the most notorious "adult only" places in Jamaica, including "Hedonism Resort", where naked bodies abound and weird things take place. Hedonism is the psychological belief that only pain and pleasure motivate people.

So what was ***** cryptographically telling his fellow veterans of Peace Corps Jamaica with his Walk Good message? Was it a reminder to review the book and carry on with hedonism? Or was it something much less sinister?

JMO

[gaia]

I'm not available for the shot you could take on me if I disagree with you. I don't. To me, Burke is a likely suspect. He is so naked I'm shielding my eyes.

The deal is, I just can't believe Burke could hide the truth in the face of intense scrufiny. Yes, he was summarily dismissed from the investigation, but this child gave off toxic fumes from the beinning. He was quoted to say his sister walked upstairs that night

Is that true?

[sissi]

I believe it's been stated clearly by LE that Burke has been cleared!

I'm not certain, but within BC's theory I believe it was never "burke" he really considered as the perp, I believe he suspected Burke may share some guilt over letting a friend into the house and witnessing the killing. This would be a tremendous burdon on a child, IMO his normal behaviors following the murder suggest he has no "clue" in the same way of his parents. They really do NOT know who killed their daughter/sister, however I'm certain they do have guesses as the rest of us.

[Camper]

Bump for BlueCrab.

This thread has some critically important thoughts on it.




.

[Eagle1]

According to posts on pg 4 of this thread, Jameson posted some IP numbers, regarding the BlueCrab impersonation caper, then rather quickly deleted them. I hadn't been to that forum in so long I decided last night to try it, and it seems she's also deleted nearly all of her JonBeent case information from all these years? Darn! I wanted to read up, and see if "B" is still there and all. If there's still something there, someone please tell me how to get in?

APAC probably gave the note writer the idea to say "small foreign faction", by the way. That's probably the only way they were involved. OTOH, I guess it is strange they would think of APAC at such a time.

:confused:

[DoYouReallyThink]

Where is BlueCrab?

I miss his posts here.

[BrotherMoon]

Where is BlueCrab?

I miss his posts here.

Ask JBRMod2.

[DoYouReallyThink]

To JBRMod2

Where is BlueCrab? I really do miss his messages here.

Thank you Brother Moon.

[Nehemiah]

It's not unusual for BlueCrab to be gone for periods of time; he's done that many times in the past. Hopefully, he will return soon.

[BrotherMoon]

I should have said ask by PM. I think BC is with Elvis and JFK investigating black helicopter activity.

[JBRMod2]

Bluecrab is still a member here and is welcome to post if he wishes.

[DoYouReallyThink]

Thank you for your replies. Maybe BlueCrab will come back. I hope so.

BrotherMoon, do you know where Jimmy Hoffa's body is? Could it be near the grassy knoll? Could that answer be found in TPMJB?

Oh, by the way, I have officially removed myself from lurker status here. :woohoo:

[BrotherMoon]

Thank you for your replies. Maybe BlueCrab will come back. I hope so.

BrotherMoon, do you know where Jimmy Hoffa's body is? Could it be near the grassy knoll? Could that answer be found in TPMJB?

Oh, by the way, I have officially removed myself from lurker status here. :woohoo:

Sociopaths of all stripes like to leave their calling cards. The ransom note is Patsy's.

"Sandy will make an excellent Secret Service agent, a great spy." - TPOMJB

You will be scanned for electronic devices ...

... we are familiar with Law enforcement countermeasures and tactics. - ransom note.

[BrotherMoon]

In TPOMJB Sandy falls in love with a policewoman that investigates a situation of indecent exposure. Sandy fantasizes that she is the officer's right-hand woman.

"So Sandy pushed her dark blue police force cap to the back of her head ... "

Sandy thinks she is a cop.

[DoYouReallyThink]

"Listen carefully" ransom note

"Get the facts first. You can distort them later." Mark Twain

I know who MJB is and I know all about Sandy, too.

Did Patsy "pen" the note, too?

Nice to finally meet you, Brother Moon. I have enjoyed your posts here for quite some time.

[BrotherMoon]

I know who MJB is and I know all about Sandy, too.

Did Patsy "pen" the note, too?



Good, then we can have an in depth conversation about TPOMJB.

I say Patsy wrote the note alone, while in a psychological state of dissociation and regression to a juvenile personality in the manner of DID/MPD.
That persona revolves around the image of Sandy Stranger. The conflict between Sandy and Jean Brodie parallels the unresolved conflict in Patsy Ramsey; the need to disengage from narcissism and engage in a moral life.

Nice to meet you too. What's your experience with TPOMJB? Have you read other works by Spark?

[Nehemiah]

Good, then we can have an in depth conversation about TPOMJB.

I say Patsy wrote the note alone, while in a psychological state of dissociation and regression to a juvenile personality in the manner of DID/MPD.
That persona revolves around the image of Sandy Stranger. The conflict between Sandy and Jean Brodie parallels the unresolved conflict in Patsy Ramsey; the need to disengage from narcissism and engage in a moral life.

I posted a thread about Dr. Dietz. What piqued my interest in him even more this week is something I saw on TV again. He was recently brought in to the Dr. Smith case (Dr. Smith is someone who is being charged with strapping bombs onto himself, and wrapping his body with barbed wire although he claims someone did this to him). All this is an aside, except that Dr. Dietz was reported to have been brought in to testify whether or not Dr. Smith has a psychological condition that would lend to him fabricating injury. When I heard that, my ears perked up, because I wondered if he could have possibly been brought in for Patsy's behavior/condition. I had never thought in that way before, but BrotherMoon makes some good points, and after all, Dr. Dietz was called upon in the Ramsey case....for some reason unknown to us.

[Miss Daisey]

Hey, Blue Crab. Nice to see you.

Anymore news on the "foreign faction"?

[BlueCrab]

Hey, Blue Crab. Nice to see you.

Anymore news on the "foreign faction"?


Miss Daisey,

Thank you for the welcome back. I won't be reporting on the "foreign faction" theory again until after my amateur investigation is complete.

[Nehemiah]

Miss Daisey,

Thank you for the welcome back. I won't be reporting on the "foreign faction" theory again until after my amateur investigation is complete.

So....you are investigating and you will be reporting at some time in the future?

[BlueCrab]

So....you are investigating and you will be reporting at some time in the future?


Correct.

[BrotherMoon]

Correct.

Will you be speaking to us from the future through a worm hole?

[Camper]

BrotherMoon, it is possible for you to be rude in a different location, other than this forum.

If I am mis interpreting your post, would you explain it in plain understandable terms, so that I might be enlightened, thank you in advance.



.

[Miss Daisey]

Hey, Camper

Wanta' borrow my voo-doo stick? I bought one during Marti Gras....and it MUST work too because nobody has been too mean to me since I got home. They KINDA' look at me "funny" though:crazy:

[BrotherMoon]

BrotherMoon, it is possible for you to be rude in a different location, other than this forum.

If I am mis interpreting your post, would you explain it in plain understandable terms, so that I might be enlightened, thank you in advance.


Yes, it is possible. In fact I can do that in several locations at one time.

Actually, that was a carefully thought out critique of a person's perspective, done in a warm and respectful manner. How could you have misinterpreted it?

[Camper]

Well Brother Moon, lets just say then that I donut understand your post.

All I know about holes in the ground is that Saddam Hussain was found in one.

Miss Daisey, I will just use my moms old cane, it works quite well just hanging on my doorknob for decoration.

Actually Blue Crab is thinking and doing, he is an action figure. Brother Moon is just a thinker, imop.



.

[RedChief]

BlueCrab,

Would you mind expanding your investigation to include the Richardson twins-the 30-yr-old gentlemen who lived with Melody Stanton? Isn't she the woman who heard the scream? I read somewhere on this forum the idea, formed with the knowledge of the twins, that the scream could have come from closer than the Ramsey basement. I didn't fully understand that observation. I do have a glimmer of understanding.

I doubt that the note writer would mention his affiliation with the faction if he were actually a member. Actually, the note doesn't say that he is a member; it says that he and others REPRESENT the faction. There is some ambiguity here, considering that the word, represent, has many conotations. However, if you consider that the writer also said, "We respect your business...", one might reasonably infer that he is a member of the faction; otherwise, one must interpret that, although he isn't a member-just a representative-he and the group he speaks for, too, respect John's business. Actually, a third interpretation is that ONLY the representatives respect his business; the feelings of the faction toward the business not having been expressed. Yet another interpretation is that the group constitutes a foreign faction, as in "These few men represent his entire army." Finally, a fifth interpretation is that the group represents a faction in the sense that they bring to mind a faction. I recall that John said that Wolfe represents a lot of unanswered questions. And, somewhat less relevant, I recall that he said that internet posters haven't been LISTENING with a critical ear. How does one listen to what is posted on the internet with ones eyes? For that matter, how does one Listen carefully to what is written in a ransom note?

"Whereof one cannot speak, thereof one must remain silent." LW

[Camper]

IF the erotic technique had been learned from a 'babysitter', this revelation could have stirred some artistic rendering of the ransom note, by a creative writer, to protect the family member.

I am wondering Blue Crab, just HOW many times the 'babysitter' had sat with all three children, and for HOW LONG? Certainly could have been long enough to fashion the 'device' at some earlier time and date.

A college student could certainly have been enabled to babysit during the childrens school year, given the versatility of a college schedule, and being home or being there to pick up the children from school, while parents were GONE out of town.

I am also wondering IF IF the 'babysitter' was in Boulder around Christmas of 1997, when Susanna Chase was murdered?

Also wondering IF IF the 'babysitter' ever worked at Pasta Jays?

Also wondering about the baseball bat that was wielded by Pasta Jay, when he chased two 'just guys' who Jay thought were reporters away from his restaurant. Wondering IF IF that baseball bat was still in Pasta Jay's restaurant the night that Susanna Chase was murdered with a baseball bat in the area near to Pasta Jay's.

So IF IF any of your amateur detective skills bring answers to my questions, I am certain that justice for JonBenet would be most appreciative.


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