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JBean
05-23-2012, 07:17 PM
Perhaps we need another controversial topic LOL.

Moved a lot of OT posts to a new thread as it seems to be something you folks want to talk about. So if the posts don't make perfect sense at first it is because they were removed from a thread with an unrelated topic.


It has been reported that Trayvon had dying words of something like "you got me", "you shot me", "you got it"

The controversy is:
Did he say that?
Was it physically possible to have said that?
If he didn't or couldn't say it who created the story? George? LE? Tracy Martin? New sources?
Why would this story be created if not true?

As you can see there is all kinds of controvery surrounding this issue. Feel free to discuss- but as always please back up your statements with an MSM link and if you state an opinion, please keep it within WS Etiquette and show how you have arrived at your conclusions through documented information.

Karmady
05-23-2012, 09:51 PM
<modsnip>

Those words came from Tracy Martin based on his "recollection" of what Serino said to him as reprinted in the MSM. So double or triple hearsay at this point, and none of it from anyone who was in a position to actually have heard those words. None of the people who did hear something said anything about that. Not to mention that most of Mr. Martin's recollection of what Serino said to him is inconsistent with the non-emergency call and the girl friend's statement about how and where the verbal confrontation took place. jmo

Gayler99
05-23-2012, 09:59 PM
Those words came from Tracy Martin based on his "recollection" of what Serino said to him as reprinted in the MSM. So double or triple hearsay at this point, and none of it from anyone who was in a position to actually have heard those words. None of the people who did hear something said anything about that. Not to mention that most of Mr. Martin's recollection of what Serino said to him is inconsistent with the non-emergency call and the girl friend's statement about how and where the verbal confrontation took place. jmo

George Zimmerman's father and his brother stated George told them that TM said similar words after he was shot.

GZ's brother said it on Piers Morgan's show I believe and his father stated it on Hannity I believe.

IMO as I don't have links to the video.

Karmady
05-23-2012, 10:05 PM
George Zimmerman's father and his brother stated George told them that TM said similar words after he was shot.

GZ's brother said it on Piers Morgan's show I believe and his father stated it on Hannity I believe.

IMO as I don't have links to the video.

I haven't seen either of them. Maybe they got it from the msm. I've read here that George's brother had not spoken to him. Don't know where the Dad got it, assuming he said that or similar.

katydid23
05-23-2012, 10:06 PM
I think TM may have said ' You SHOT me...' that makes more sense, imo.

LambChop
05-23-2012, 10:25 PM
I think TM may have said ' You SHOT me...' that makes more sense, imo.

His heart exploded on impact along with his lung collapsing. I doubt he would have been able to even utter a sound. But then GZ wouldn't have known that, would he???? jmo

LambChop
05-23-2012, 10:29 PM
Those words came from Tracy Martin based on his "recollection" of what Serino said to him as reprinted in the MSM. So double or triple hearsay at this point, and none of it from anyone who was in a position to actually have heard those words. None of the people who did hear something said anything about that. Not to mention that most of Mr. Martin's recollection of what Serino said to him is inconsistent with the non-emergency call and the girl friend's statement about how and where the verbal confrontation took place. jmo

I thought Serino was relaying to Mr. Martin what GZ had stated on his statement to LE. Well, one of them, anyway. jmo

AJ Noiter
05-23-2012, 10:29 PM
His heart exploded on impact along with his lung collapsing. I doubt he would have been able to even utter a sound. But then GZ wouldn't have known that, would he???? jmo

K_Z spoke of this before Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Trayvon Martin's Autopsy

Karmady
05-23-2012, 10:45 PM
I thought Serino was relaying to Mr. Martin what GZ had stated on his statement to LE. Well, one of them, anyway. jmo

Not sure, but that may be the story. So right now it's George>Serino> Tracy>MSM at this point, and the only account we have of it is the msm's afaik. Could be that's what was said, but I'm not going to use it to draw any conclusions until I see it in George's statement because it sounds kind of far-fetched to me.

Actually, I'm not sure what conclusion I would even draw from it if I knew it were true. I assume the idea is that it fits the cop-wanna-be narrative?

LynnM
05-23-2012, 11:00 PM
Supposedly a LE source told a reporter that Zimmerman said that Trayvon's last words after being shot were "You got it. You got it." The story was presented in a news site that I don't think we can quote and then repeated throughout the media. It doesn't make sense - what's the IT and it's too many words for someone to be saying after being shot in the heart. We'll have to see whether this is really GZ's story.

Lovelymountains
05-24-2012, 04:28 PM
I haven't seen either of them. Maybe they got it from the msm. I've read here that George's brother had not spoken to him. Don't know where the Dad got it, assuming he said that or similar.

Or it is possible that they got it from GZ himself. I've heard that GZ's brother had been estranged for a couple of years but I haven't heard that he did not speak to his brother after the murder but before his media blitz. I doubt that either of them would report that TM said that as being true without speaking to George. But you could be right. The Zimmerman family has told some pretty incredible stories, so maybe they got it from MSM, which has done the same. But wherever the story came from, I think it is a figment of someone's imagination.

Lovelymountains
05-24-2012, 04:34 PM
Supposedly a LE source told a reporter that Zimmerman said that Trayvon's last words after being shot were "You got it. You got it." The story was presented in a news site that I don't think we can quote and then repeated throughout the media. It doesn't make sense - what's the IT and it's too many words for someone to be saying after being shot in the heart. We'll have to see whether this is really GZ's story.

I thought it was, "You got me!" But you could be right.

It was also reported that TM said to Zimmerman, "Tonight you die." I heard that on TV, but don't remember where so, IMO.

Lovelymountains
05-24-2012, 04:40 PM
I think TM may have said ' You SHOT me...' that makes more sense, imo.

Given the condition of TM's heart and lungs, I doubt he uttered a word. Maybe a sort of grunt with his lungs collapsing, but not a sentence. IMO it's just more of GZ's incredible story.

vlpate
05-25-2012, 01:22 AM
Supposedly a LE source told a reporter that Zimmerman said that Trayvon's last words after being shot were "You got it. You got it." The story was presented in a news site that I don't think we can quote and then repeated throughout the media. It doesn't make sense - what's the IT and it's too many words for someone to be saying after being shot in the heart. We'll have to see whether this is really GZ's story.

BEM: Where was this repeated "throughout the media"?

vlpate
05-25-2012, 01:27 AM
George Zimmerman's father and his brother stated George told them that TM said similar words after he was shot.

GZ's brother said it on Piers Morgan's show I believe and his father stated it on Hannity I believe.

IMO as I don't have links to the video.

Exact quote please? There are CNN transcripts that I've posted a couple of times, and neither said anything about what TM may have said after being shot. If you have a link, please post it. TIA

vlpate
05-25-2012, 01:33 AM
Those words came from Tracy Martin based on his "recollection" of what Serino said to him as reprinted in the MSM. So double or triple hearsay at this point, and none of it from anyone who was in a position to actually have heard those words. None of the people who did hear something said anything about that. Not to mention that most of Mr. Martin's recollection of what Serino said to him is inconsistent with the non-emergency call and the girl friend's statement about how and where the verbal confrontation took place. jmo

BEM: Exactly, it came from Tracy Martin (http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/04/03/us-usa-florida-shooting-trayvon-idUSBRE8320UK20120403).

"At that point Zimmerman is able to unholster his weapon and fire a shot, striking Trayvon in the chest. Trayvon falls on his back and says, 'You got me.'" The Martin family has been telling their story as part of a campaign to have Zimmerman arrested. He himself has kept quiet."

We also know he didn't fall on his back.

JBean
05-25-2012, 01:55 AM
Exact quote please? There are CNN transcripts that I've posted a couple of times, and neither said anything about what TM may have said after being shot. If you have a link, please post it. TIA

I think this may all be off topic but will review. In the mean time,FWIW,here is one report, but it says the information came from Zimmerman as told to investigators:

CBS: Zimmerman recalls Trayvon Martin's last words. "you got me"? "it's over" ? - YouTube

vlpate
05-25-2012, 08:46 AM
I think this may all be off topic but will review. In the mean time,FWIW,here is one report, but it says the information came from Zimmerman as told to investigators:

CBS: Zimmerman recalls Trayvon Martin's last words. "you got me"? "it's over" ? - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YlOw10koQZw)

Thank you, but the statement I was responding to was whether GZ's brother or father said Zimmerman told them TM said "you got me" after he was shot. I know Tracy Martin said it. I'd bet he's the "source" in this video as well.

cmsg2002
05-25-2012, 09:03 AM
Thank you, but the statement I was responding to was whether GZ's brother or father said Zimmerman told them TM said "you got me" after he was shot. I know Tracy Martin said it. I'd bet he's the "source" in this video as well.


What would make you think that after just being directed to a link that states it was GZ that was "the source"?

cityslick
05-25-2012, 09:07 AM
What would make you think that after just being directed to a link that states it was GZ that was "the source"?

This is the same story that quotes a responder that said they saw injuries (plural) on TM's knuckles that indicated he was in a fight.

What injuries were they looking at, the ME report only listed one cut?

Karmady
05-25-2012, 09:57 AM
What would make you think that after just being directed to a link that states it was GZ that was "the source"?

Do you think that George gave this account to the reporter himself?

cmsg2002
05-25-2012, 10:04 AM
Do you think that George gave this account to the reporter himself?

...."it says the information came from Zimmerman as told to investigators"


if you want to discount the reporter's info and/or source, then you also should apply that same standard to your assumption the source came from TM's father.

AJ Noiter
05-25-2012, 10:07 AM
...."it says the information came from Zimmerman as told to investigators"


if you want to discount the reporter's info and/or source, then you also should apply that same standard to your assumption the source came from TM's father.

I think they're trying to backtrack as to how this got into the hands of the media. Who told the reporter that Mr. Zimmerman said that? Does it say? If not, then the backtracking leads to Mr. Martin. In either case, we don't know how many mouths and ears it passed through BEFORE it got to the media - I think that's the whole point of trying to trace it.

lauriej
05-25-2012, 12:38 PM
http://usnews.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/03/29/10912176-george-zimmermans-dad-says-travyon-told-his-son-youre-gonna-die-now?lite
George Zimmerman's dad says Travyon told his son, 'You're gonna die now'

That’s when Martin spotted George Zimmerman’s gun, Robert Zimmerman said.
“Trayvon Martin said something to the effect of, ‘You're gonna die now,’ or ‘You're gonna die tonight,’ something to that effect.”

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/03/29/george-zimmermans-father-claims-trayvon-martin-beat-his-son-threatened-his-life/


"After nearly a minute of being beaten, George was trying to get his head off the concrete, trying to move with Trayvon on him, in the grass. In doing so, his firearm was shown. Trayvon Martin said something to the effect of, 'You're going to die now,' or 'You're going to die tonight' or something to that effect," Robert Zimmerman said.

Robert Zimmerman said Martin continued to beat his son, and George Zimmerman at some point pulled out his gun and "did what he did."

vlpate
05-25-2012, 01:00 PM
...."it says the information came from Zimmerman as told to investigators"


if you want to discount the reporter's info and/or source, then you also should apply that same standard to your assumption the source came from TM's father.

Tracy Martin is the only source for this statement, period. He says Serino told him this, and he also said Serino told him Trayvon fell backwards, which we know is not true, so take it for what it's worth.

There are no other references to the statement except Tracy Martin....which fits with "came from Zimmerman as told to Investigators" (as told to Tracy Martin by Serino).

vlpate
05-25-2012, 01:02 PM
This is the same story that quotes a responder that said they saw injuries (plural) on TM's knuckles that indicated he was in a fight.

What injuries were they looking at, the ME report only listed one cut?

Interesting.

LambChop
05-25-2012, 01:17 PM
This is the same story that quotes a responder that said they saw injuries (plural) on TM's knuckles that indicated he was in a fight.

What injuries were they looking at, the ME report only listed one cut?

The power of suggestion?????

Karmady
05-25-2012, 01:24 PM
...."it says the information came from Zimmerman as told to investigators"


if you want to discount the reporter's info and/or source, then you also should apply that same standard to your assumption the source came from TM's father.

I came back to post a link to an interview with Tracy where you can hear him say how he came by this information, but when I went to post it, the thread was temporarily closed, I guess. If you google "tracy martin" "you got me" and click on the video results, it should come right up. He was being interviewed with Sybrina by a woman with brown hair in a bob and a red jacket, I think. Can't remember the outlet.

vlpate
05-25-2012, 01:27 PM
Also from the LINK above:

00:14 "New details emerge from sources close to the investigation." IMO, Crump.

This reporter also says the new prosecutor had information that the SPD didn't have, like the autopsy report on Martin. Of course this is not correct, the autopsy was completed before being handed over to the prosecutor.

The reporter mentions that the special prosecutor now has Zimmerman's medical report. They have it now because Mark O'Mara gave it to them, but they didn't have it before they submitted the probable cause document.