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View Full Version : Despite ‘Castle Doctrine,’ defendant is convicted in slaying


Reality Orlando
05-31-2012, 12:14 PM
Once again the victim is punished. When are we going to start protecting our law abiding citizens instead of these type of scum...18 arrests and awaiting trial for knocking out a woman's teeth during a robbery, yet...ugh. Civilized society is doomed IMO.

"During the two-day nonjury trial, Lowe and his attorney, Samuel C. Stretton, argued that he acted in self-defense on the evening of Oct. 1, 2011, when he was jumped by Loren Manning Jr., 51, and at least two other men on Cecil B. Moore Avenue near Bouvier Street.

"When he had his hands around my neck, I pulled out my knife and started stabbing him," Lowe testified Wednesday.

Stretton noted that Lowe stayed at the scene and cooperated with police, believing himself to be the victim.

Stretton said case law barred him from introducing Manning’s 18 criminal convictions at trial because Lowe wasn’t aware of them and most of them were too old, the most recent from 2002. According to court records, Manning was awaiting trial for allegedly knocking out a woman’s teeth while robbing her two years ago Thursday."

During the two-day nonjury trial, Lowe and his attorney, Samuel C. Stretton, argued that he acted in self-defense on the evening of Oct. 1, 2011, when he was jumped by Loren Manning Jr., 51, and at least two other men on Cecil B. Moore Avenue near Bouvier Street. "When he had his hands around my neck, I pulled out my knife and started stabbing him," Lowe testified Wednesday. Stretton noted that Lowe stayed at the scene and cooperated with police, believing himself to be the victim. Stretton said case law barred him from introducing Manning’s 18 criminal convictions at trial because Lowe wasn’t aware of them and most of them were too old, the most recent from 2002. According to court records, Manning was awaiting trial for allegedly knocking out a woman’s teeth while robbing her two years ago Thursday.

animlzrule
05-31-2012, 01:21 PM
It seems it's not that clear cut. I'm glad these laws are being heavily scrutinized and in some cases challenged.

http://www.philly.com/philly/news/local/155849945.html?cmpid=15585797

Naylor seized on inconsistencies between the testimonies of Lowe and the students, including where the stabbing took place. She argued that before the students came upon the struggle, Lowe stabbed Manning from behind before both men ended up on the ground.

She noted that two stab wounds were in Manning’s back. She also said Lowe showed intent to kill with malice because after Manning fell mortally wounded, Lowe taunted him and even tried to stab him some more.

Civilized society is only doomed if we allow everyone to run around with weapons. Good on the judge for sending a message about being willing to deal with the consequences of arming yourself in public. Pennsylvania's Castle Doctrine seems dangerously broad....there must have been some pretty compelling evidence of a degree of culpability on the part of the defendant.

jjenny
05-31-2012, 02:19 PM
I think it's very unfair to not allow evidence of previous criminal history. And why didn't he go for a jury trial? All you have to do is convince one juror of reasonable doubt. And there appears to be plenty of doubt.

Sonya610
06-01-2012, 11:12 AM
She also said Lowe showed intent to kill with malice because after Manning fell mortally wounded, Lowe taunted him and even tried to stab him some more.


If I am ever attacked by some vicious thug and have to defend myself (with witnesses) I would have a heck of a time controlling the words that came out of my mouth.

jjenny
06-01-2012, 11:13 AM
ITA. Haven't people heard about adrenaline?
"Imperfect self-defense" my ***.

Sonya610
06-01-2012, 11:25 AM
Civilized society is only doomed if we allow everyone to run around with weapons.

Wonder if the woman that had her teeth knocked out feels that way? As a woman I know most males have 3 times my body strength and they don't NEED a weapon to kill me thefore I DO need weapons.

not_my_kids
06-01-2012, 01:16 PM
Seems like their message is clear. If you feel that you might ever need to defend yourself with lethal force, don't move to PA. That's fine. I won't. Message received.