View Full Version : ARRESTED- Luka Rocco Magnotta:1st deg murder charge;INTERPOL alert #6
imamaze
06-03-2012, 08:52 PM
Story still developing, but these two events may be connected. A suspicious package that turned up at Conservative Party HQ in our nation's capital seems to have contained a human foot. On the same day a torso was found in a suitcase in Montreal in a garbage skip. Political wags are already homing in on the symbolism of the act, but something far more serious may in play here.
Thread #1
Thread #2
Thread #3
http://ca.news.yahoo.com/body-found-garbage-c-te-des-neiges-184939144.html
Torso found in Montreal garbage pile
The major crimes unit of the Montreal police is investigating the discovery of a torso in a pile of garbage in the Côte-des-Neiges borough, west of Décarie Boulevard.
http://ca.news.yahoo.com/blogs/canada-politics/human-foot-found-suspicious-package-conservative-party-headquarters-191024177.html
Human foot found in ‘suspicious package’ at Conservative Party headquarters
Authorities say they were called to the Tory offices at Albert Street at 11:20am.
"Upon arrival, officers noted that the ... package had blood stains on it," the Ottawa Police Service said in a release, according to the Globe and Mail.
WARNING: the video that is online depicting the murder is extremely graphic and we are not posting links to it here at websleuths.
TIMELINE/MEDIA/INFO THREAD
Please continue here...
Salem
06-06-2012, 12:38 PM
Please continue here and REMEMBER - no pics, stills, audio, etc. to the video. And no pics of innocent people.
TOs will be issued if you can't remember this rule. Not everyone wants to see the video or parts thereof. You can get to it by link because it is all over the net. So go where ever it is and don't bring back more than discussion, okay?
Thanks,
Salem
Nope. In examining all of the coverage of the Magnotta case that I can, I have found Justin Ling's reporting to be the most accurate, factual, insightful and not sensationalized compared to other media outlets.
While I agree that Xtra! is not known for it's journalism, Ling's been doing old school journalism and provided important insights about Magnotta. I've been following his Magnotta coverage since his first article and he has not misreported anything; the same cannot be said for most other "news" outlets.
He is doing a great job but the question in question is exactly the type of question a good journalist writing for the audience he writes for would be expected to ask. The Globe and Mail and National Post readers are likely more interested in how this crime will affect the economy or how it plays into a debate about the DP :) JMO- I read them all
Wondergirl
06-06-2012, 12:43 PM
Removing the video will only cause it to become more widespread, study the Streisand effect for the reasons why that is.
Streisand effect - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Streisand_effect)
Every time something like this happens there is a segment of society that immediately wants to ban things and give the government power to create more laws and crack down on our freedom. It is the very same reactionary behavior that allowed Stalin and Hitler, among others, to accomplish what they did, tyrants love to take advantage of the fear and insecurity of the people they have power over and this case is no different, those who have a desire to censor the internet and take away more of our freedom will use this case to further their perverted agenda.
Decisions about matters such as banning websites and making certain things illegal should not be made until long after events like this after people have settled down and gotten their heads about them.
Further, in the words of the great Ben Franklin:
They who would give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety.
I personally do not like gore sites but there is something I hate even more, people telling me what parts of reality I can and cannot see.
That video, while digusting beyond measure, is an unfortunate part of the reality we live in, to stick your head in the sand and deny its existence is the ultimate insult to the victim.
No need to answer this, just posing the question:
If your friend said to you, "come on over and watch a real snuff film tonight", would you?
There are some people who would never, ever, in a million years deliberately go and watch a snuff and dismemberment film, but, because of many different influences and factors, not the least of which is because it was so readily available on the Internet, hundreds of thousands of people watched that real life snuff and dismemberment video of the victim Jun Lin.
That, to me, is an issue worth discussing, because we all know those types of videos are out there. Not choosing to watch them, is not "sticking my head in the sand". I am hopeful that some poor soul who has to track these monsters down, catches them as a repurcussion of sites like these.
To blatantly display the video that is known to be a true, real life murder and dismemberment, crosses the boundaries, and to deliberately leave it on, is a crime, IMO.
HastingsChi
06-06-2012, 12:44 PM
As we begin a new thread, let's all take a moment to remember the victim of this senseless crime, Jun/Justin Lin
http://images.ctv.ca/archives/CTVNews/img2/20120601/800_jun_lin_cp_120601.jpg
matou
06-06-2012, 12:46 PM
Notes were in the first packages opened as well:
Montreal Police Cmdr. Ian Lafreniere said Wednesday that one note was in the package opened last week at the ruling Conservative Party headquarters. He did not give details, but suspect Luka Rocco Magnotta faces a charge of threatening Canadian Prime Minister Stephen Harper.
Read it on Global News: Global News | Canada police say notes found in body parts packages mailed in dismemberment case (http://www.globalnews.ca/world/canada+police+say+notes+found+in+body+parts+packag es+mailed+in+dismemberment+case/6442655324/story.html#ixzz1x24quZu0)
HastingsChi
06-06-2012, 12:47 PM
Please continue here and REMEMBER - no pics, stills, audio, etc. to the video. And no pics of innocent people.
TOs will be issued if you can't remember this rule. Not everyone wants to see the video or parts thereof. You can get to it by link because it is all over the net. So go where ever it is and don't bring back more than discussion, okay?
Thanks,
Salem
Salem: Thanks for your great moderation of these threads. I wanted to ask you at what point would it be appropriate to change the name of the thread to reflect the victim, Jun/Justin Lin, and not the Montreal Monster?
Jujercu
06-06-2012, 12:47 PM
Ok since I am new I have a question...when you close an old thread is it still available for viewing? If so..where does one access that? Thanks
MONTREAL – Police are investigating suspicious envelopes containing white powder that turned up Wednesday morning at a total of nine different locations across the city, including at Quebec-government-related offices and two building occupied by the the Quebecor media group.
All were signed by the “Forces armées révolutionaires du Québec."
That can be roughly translated as "the revolutionary armed forces of Quebec."
One of the envelopes, sent to 3400 Jean Talon St. W., contained baking soda, Montreal police Constable Yannick Ouimet said.
Envelopes containing an “unknown substance” were also received at the following five locations, Ouimet added:
* 1600 Henri-Bourassa Blvd. W.;
* 1600 de Maisonneuve Blvd. E.;
* 612 St. Jacques St. W. in Old Montreal, the Quebecor head office;
* 7665 St. Laurent Blvd; and
* 500 Sherbrooke St. W., the Loto Quebec head office
Read more: http://www.montrealgazette.com/Nine+suspicious+envelopes+received+around+city+Mon treal+police/6739088/story.html#ixzz1x259RsKL
Lera213
06-06-2012, 12:50 PM
Ok since I am new I have a question...when you close an old thread is it still available for viewing? If so..where does one access that? Thanks
you an view it but not post, scroll down to the very bottom here in this thread and it will show you the others. Also usually the mod will post prior threads in the first post of each thread...linking to ie. Thread 1, Thread 2, and so on.
Wondergirl
06-06-2012, 12:50 PM
I am pretty confused on this whole issue.
Luka Rocco Magnotta may have posted videos while on the run, Montreal police say
Luka Rocco Magnotta (http://www.thestar.com/topic/lukaroccomagnotta) appears to have posted new videos of himself while he was on the run, including one that began, “Hi to all my fans.”
“We think it is recent. We must check the clothing, the physical aspects. The French police will give us a hand. It would be very surprising if it was filmed before the murder,” Montreal police Cmdr. Denis Mainville confirmed to the newspaper La Presse.
http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/article/1206739--luka-rocco-magnotta-may-have-posted-videos-while-on-the-run-montreal-police-say
No_Stone_Unturned
06-06-2012, 12:50 PM
Don't know if this has already been posted - but the Montreal Police have now taken over the situation with the packages delivered to Vancouver schools.
Man, I am praying that they nail this dude to the wall!!:jail:
Jujercu
06-06-2012, 12:51 PM
http://www.lifewithcats.tv/2012/06/06/animal-advocacy-org-claims-role-in-setting-up-luka-magnotta/
Not sure if this was posted yet...it from Last Chance for Animals who has been trying to get LM for awhile.
AudreyRose
06-06-2012, 12:52 PM
MONTREAL – Police are investigating suspicious envelopes containing white powder that turned up Wednesday morning at a total of nine different locations across the city, including at Quebec-government-related offices and two building occupied by the the Quebecor media group.
All were signed by the “Forces armées révolutionaires du Québec."
That can be roughly translated as "the revolutionary armed forces of Quebec."
One of the envelopes, sent to 3400 Jean Talon St. W., contained baking soda, Montreal police Constable Yannick Ouimet said.
Envelopes containing an “unknown substance” were also received at the following five locations, Ouimet added:
* 1600 Henri-Bourassa Blvd. W.;
* 1600 de Maisonneuve Blvd. E.;
* 612 St. Jacques St. W. in Old Montreal, the Quebecor head office;
* 7665 St. Laurent Blvd; and
* 500 Sherbrooke St. W., the Loto Quebec head office
Read more: http://www.montrealgazette.com/Nine+suspicious+envelopes+received+around+city+Mon treal+police/6739088/story.html#ixzz1x259RsKL
Is this from today? I clicked on the link but it's saying the story is no longer available.
HastingsChi
06-06-2012, 12:53 PM
While there are some inaccuracies (Magnotta DID perform in pornographic films whereas the Globe & Mail article states otherwise), I thought that the cultural analysis of this article is something that others might find most interesting:
From the Globe & Mail: Is Magnotta the avatar of online alienation? France thinks so
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/world/world-view/is-magnotta-the-avatar-of-online-alienation-france-thinks-so/article4234762/
PAXIMUS
06-06-2012, 12:54 PM
People who want the video banned keep referring to it as a snuff film as if somehow calling it something that it is not is going to further their counterpoint or something.
It is not a snuff film, there is no murder recorded in the video.
The film is digusting enough on its own that it doesnt need embellishment.
I dont the like video, I think it is disgusting and I dont care to ever see anything like it again but I only make decisions for myself, what others want to watch is up to them. We dont need a nanny state to tell us what parts of reality is ok for us to see.
james62
06-06-2012, 12:54 PM
I am pretty confused on this whole issue.
There were articles a couple of hours back cnfirming that these are old videos. Some news portals seem to be a bit slow to catch up, or think the idea of him posting taunting vids while on the run is a 'better story', even if not true.
HastingsChi
06-06-2012, 12:55 PM
http://www.lifewithcats.tv/2012/06/06/animal-advocacy-org-claims-role-in-setting-up-luka-magnotta/
Not sure if this was posted yet...it from Last Chance for Animals who has been trying to get LM for awhile.
If these groups and those crime solving masterminds the Barbie Twins were more successful in their efforts in "getting" Magnotta, Jun Lin would still be alive...
Wondergirl
06-06-2012, 12:56 PM
Is Magnotta the avatar of online alienation? France thinks so.
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/world/world-view/is-magnotta-the-avatar-of-online-alienation-france-thinks-so/article4234762/
Without the Web, the "butcher of Montreal would not exist," Mr. de Boni concludes. "This killer character is a narcissistic and deviant avatar, one of many virtual identities he invented in order to create celebrity."
udar55
06-06-2012, 12:56 PM
I am pretty confused on this whole issue.
The "hi to my fans" video has already been debunked. It was an excerpt from a video in 2008 where he was trolling FAMILY GUY fans on Youtube. I'm shocked the police aren't aware of this.
~n/t~
06-06-2012, 12:56 PM
Worked minutes ago when first posted, but not anymore......
dotr, it was baking soda. I'm sure it's connected to the student protests. Nothing to do with Magnotta.
Amandes
06-06-2012, 12:56 PM
haha, yea Germany is a nanny state, with all the banning and censorship of music, games and movies
http://www.canada.com/technology/Nine+suspicious+envelopes+received+around+city+Mon treal+police/6739088/story.html
The mysterious group does not appear to have any online presenc
However, the name on the envelopes bears a striking similarity to the Armée révolutionnaire du Québec (ARQ).
The ARQ served as the militant arm of the former Front de libération du Québec (FLQ) in the 1960s.
It was best-known for supplying ammunition and other weaponry to the FLQ through a series of daytime raids of various ammunition caches in Montreal.
The name “Forces armées révolutionnaires du Québec” also bears some resemblance to the Fuerzas Armadas Revolucionarias de Colombia (FARC), known in Ferench as Les Forces armées révolutionnaires de Colombie, a group of guerrillas based in Colombia
mysteriew
06-06-2012, 12:59 PM
people should lay off the tipster.. yea hes asking for money and it looks bad, but non of you know his financial situation.. what if hes close to loosing his house and business? internet cafes arent exactly lucritive.. in a struggling economy..
personally it wouldnt be my choice of actions, but its not worthy of getting worked up about.. the media pays people for exclusive content ALL the time
I agree. Plus you have to look at the time. He is a clerk, so his pay would be minimal and he probably is looking at a life time for that. He deals with the public on a daily basis, the good days and the bad days for a minimal amount of money. Usually the time is boring, then suddenly the most exciting thing in his life happens.
Then following this exciting event, he is suddenly getting attention. Maybe too much attention. The store is small, and there are people coming in who possibly don't want to buy. They just want to talk and talking could endanger his job. He has a job to do and they could be interfering with it. They crowd the customers. Some reporters don't have the best reputation as far as politeness. Plus demands for your attention can wear on you after a while. Then someone probably offered him money.
So while I can't agree with his requiring money, I can at least understand the temptation.
HastingsChi
06-06-2012, 12:59 PM
There were articles a couple of hours back cnfirming that these are old videos. Some news portals seem to be a bit slow to catch up, or think the idea of him posting taunting vids while on the run is a 'better story', even if not true.
They ARE old videos, watch them and then look at his mugshot; compare the two and it will be obvious that unchangeable features (weight, complexion, etc) are so different that it would be impossible for the videos to be recent...
I'm overwhelmed by the awful reporting and the unending inaccuracies that supposed "news" outlets are publishing...
Girlwiththestartat
06-06-2012, 12:59 PM
While there are some inaccuracies (Magnotta DID perform in pornographic films whereas the Globe & Mail article states otherwise), I thought that the cultural analysis of this article is something that others might find most interesting:
From the Globe & Mail: Is Magnotta the avatar of online alienation? France thinks so
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/world/world-view/is-magnotta-the-avatar-of-online-alienation-france-thinks-so/article4234762/
In regards to this as well, not sure if it sensationalizing but they do mention in the same article he was caught looking at 'pornographic pictures of himself'.
Maybe this means it was due to him being narcissistic, and not an overly sexual need?
Again, could just be news outlets 'jumbling' various reports.
Lera213
06-06-2012, 12:59 PM
http://www.lifewithcats.tv/2012/06/06/animal-advocacy-org-claims-role-in-setting-up-luka-magnotta/
Not sure if this was posted yet...it from Last Chance for Animals who has been trying to get LM for awhile.
Wow, I know many on this forum clicked on those video's several times. Poor Police now have to weed those of us that clicked on it.
Meowen
06-06-2012, 01:00 PM
The "hi to my fans" video has already been debunked. It was an excerpt from a video in 2008 where he was trolling FAMILY GUY fans on Youtube. I'm shocked the police aren't aware of this.
Why did LRM hate Family Guy anyway? I missed that..
HastingsChi
06-06-2012, 01:01 PM
In regards to this as well, not sure if it sensationalizing but they do mention in the same article he was caught looking at 'pornographic pictures of himself'.
OMG I totally missed that tidbit.
Has it been confirmed or even reported elsewhere that he was caught looking at 'pornographic pictures of himself'. ????
BBM
~n/t~
06-06-2012, 01:04 PM
http://www.canada.com/technology/Nine+suspicious+envelopes+received+around+city+Mon treal+police/6739088/story.html
The mysterious group does not appear to have any online presenc
However, the name on the envelopes bears a striking similarity to the Armée révolutionnaire du Québec (ARQ).
The ARQ served as the militant arm of the former Front de libération du Québec (FLQ) in the 1960s.
It was best-known for supplying ammunition and other weaponry to the FLQ through a series of daytime raids of various ammunition caches in Montreal.
The name “Forces armées révolutionnaires du Québec” also bears some resemblance to the Fuerzas Armadas Revolucionarias de Colombia (FARC), known in Ferench as Les Forces armées révolutionnaires de Colombie, a group of guerrillas based in Colombia
Great. That's all we need. :banghead: This is crazy.
AudreyRose
06-06-2012, 01:07 PM
I found a thread where Justin Lin posts the following (translated by Google):
"Looking for a MM to get married. Have relatives in CA. I work in Beijing, Wuhan, October 2005 FN. Undergraduate. IELTS5 5, for five years, the IT 175 65 28, is still relatively handsome, interested, contact ljustinian@gmail.com
Please do not call me. ! ~ ~"
Can anyone clarify for me what an "MM" might be?
thefragile7393
06-06-2012, 01:09 PM
If these groups and those crime solving masterminds the Barbie Twins were more successful in their efforts in "getting" Magnotta, Jun Lin would still be alive...
Kind of hard to do when they don't have police tools at their disposal. I am sure their info helped police in a small way since they had info on this guy long before he got on authorities radar.
Sent from my SGH-T989 using Tapatalk 2
http://www.globalnews.ca/world/canada+police+say+notes+found+in+body+parts+packag es+mailed+in+dismemberment+case/6442655324/story.html
"Montreal Police Cmdr. Ian Lafreniere said Wednesday that one note was in the package opened last week at the ruling Conservative Party headquarters. He did not give details, but suspect Luka Rocco Magnotta faces a charge of threatening Canadian Prime Minister Stephen Harper."
Police previously denied there were notes
prima.facie
06-06-2012, 01:15 PM
I found a thread where Justin Lin posts the following (translated by Google):
"Looking for a MM to get married. Have relatives in CA. I work in Beijing, Wuhan, October 2005 FN. Undergraduate. IELTS5 5, for five years, the IT 175 65 28, is still relatively handsome, interested, contact ljustinian@gmail.com
Please do not call me. ! ~ ~"
Can anyone clarify for me what an "MM" might be?
masculine man?
PAXIMUS
06-06-2012, 01:16 PM
haha, yea Germany is a nanny state, with all the banning and censorship of music, games and movies
The US isnt far behind, Nanny State central New York has eliminated large helpings of soda pop, you can only buy 16 ounces at a time now because some people drink too much, so because some people abuse things the rest of us who do not have to be punished for it. By that logic we should ban or limit everything and let the government decide what is good and what is not good for us, since everything can be abused, there is no reason to allow people the right to make decisions for themselves anymore, we cant be trusted to do anything right only our perfect and all knowing elected leaders can make those decisions for us.
Here is the problem with all of this, where do we draw the line, we ban gore websites, then next week it is something else and the next week its another thing and it just keeps repeating itself over and over until suddenly you find yourself living back in Germany 1933 and the state defines your reality for you since your own eyes, ears, nose and mouth cannot be trusted to do so any longer.
I personally do not like the fact that history books show jewish people piled up atfter being killed in death camps but those pictures are an important part of our history and if there is one thing I am FOR it is the documentation of our lives and the things we do BOTH GOOD AND BAD for future generations to study and learn from. While this video is indeed disgusting and it challenges us in ways few things ever have it is important, for the sake of POSTERITY ALONE that we document it and make it available for future generations to study so as to prevent it from continuing to happen again.
I am sure it is very hurtful to the family of the victim to see these things on the internet but the fact that a few trees fall in the forest is not reason to immediately cut the rest of them down. There is a big picture to consider and the need to protect that big picture far outweighs the smaller issues that are the result of it.
Is this from today? I clicked on the link but it's saying the story is no longer available.
Try again AudreyRose. It worked for me.
Wondergirl
06-06-2012, 01:18 PM
People who want the video banned keep referring to it as a snuff film as if somehow calling it something that it is not is going to further their counterpoint or something.
It is not a snuff film, there is no murder recorded in the video.
The film is digusting enough on its own that it doesnt need embellishment.
I dont the like video, I think it is disgusting and I dont care to ever see anything like it again but I only make decisions for myself, what others want to watch is up to them. We dont need a nanny state to tell us what parts of reality is ok for us to see.
The semantics do not matter.
It is a crime to film what he filmed.
It is a crime to knowingly publish that film.
You call it a nanny state, I call it what is morally and legally right.
Where do you draw the line? Do you not draw the line at murder? Sexual assault? Dismemberment. That stuff should NOT be online.
No wonder LE has their hands full with the proliferation of crimes throughout the Internet. The deviant images and videos are prolific, and a LEO once told me the proliferation absolutely has an effect on criminals, and would-be criminals.
JMO
Dushi
06-06-2012, 01:18 PM
I found a thread where Justin Lin posts the following (translated by Google):
"Looking for a MM to get married. Have relatives in CA. I work in Beijing, Wuhan, October 2005 FN. Undergraduate. IELTS5 5, for five years, the IT 175 65 28, is still relatively handsome, interested, contact ljustinian@gmail.com
Please do not call me. ! ~ ~"
Can anyone clarify for me what an "MM" might be?
MM Male male
prima.facie
06-06-2012, 01:20 PM
The US isnt far behind, Nanny State central New York has eliminated large helpings of soda pop, you can only buy 16 ounces at a time now because some people drink too much, so because some people abuse things the rest of us who do not have to be punished for it. By that logic we should ban or limit everything and let the government decide what is good and what is not good for us, since everything can be abused, there is no reason to allow people the right to make decisions for themselves anymore, we cant be trusted to do anything right only our perfect and all knowing elected leaders can make those decisions for us.
Here is the problem with all of this, where do we draw the line, we ban gore websites, then next week it is something else and the next week its another thing and it just keeps repeating itself over and over until suddenly you find yourself living back in Germany 1933 and the state defines your reality for you since your own eyes, ears, nose and mouth cannot be trusted to do so any longer.
I personally do not like the fact that history books show jewish people piled up atfter being killed in death camps but those pictures are an important part of our history and if there is one thing I am FOR it is the documentation of our lives and the things we do BOTH GOOD AND BAD for future generations to study and learn from. While this video is indeed disgusting and it challenges us in ways few things ever have it is important, for the sake of POSTERITY ALONE that we document it and make it available for future generations to study so as to prevent it from continuing to happen again.
I am sure it is very hurtful to the family of the victim to see these things on the internet but the fact that a few trees fall in the forest is not reason to immediately cut the rest of them down. There is a big picture to consider and the need to protect that big picture far outweighs the smaller issues that are the result of it.
no need to copy exactly what i said....
ARRESTED- Luka Rocco Magnotta:1st deg murder charge;INTERPOL alert #5 - Page 31 - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community
ARRESTED- Luka Rocco Magnotta:1st deg murder charge;INTERPOL alert #5 - Page 32 - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community
:snooty::p lol
james62
06-06-2012, 01:20 PM
Wow, I know many on this forum clicked on those video's several times. Poor Police now have to weed those of us that clicked on it.
arrgghh! LCA are claiming way too much credit with no proof.
"LCA says they were able to track Magnotta’s movements when repeated hits for the videos came first from France and then from Germany. They sent out the following press release on their role in the case yesterday.["
Just what does the above prove?? As I said earlier, there are over 60 million people in France and over 80 million in Germany. The fact that people were clicking on the clips in those countries proves nothing at all. Of course people were clicking on them, this was a big news story in their countries. Geez. :banghead:
AudreyRose
06-06-2012, 01:22 PM
Try again AudreyRose. It worked for me.
It's working now - thanks! Geez, what is going ON with people these days?!?
Jujercu
06-06-2012, 01:25 PM
http://www.youtube.com/channel/UC8wV5ykmTTtcUEXDxBzrp2Q/videos
This guy had many pro-Luka vids that seem to be all gone now. He also commented on some of luka's stuff.
PAXIMUS
06-06-2012, 01:25 PM
The semantics do not matter.
It is a crime to film what he filmed.
It is a crime to knowingly publish that film.
You call it a nanny state, I call it what is morally and legally right.
Where do you draw the line? Do you not draw the line at murder? Sexual assault? Dismemberment. That stuff should NOT be online.
No wonder LE has their hands full with the proliferation of crimes throughout the Internet. The deviant images and videos are prolific, and a LEO once told me the proliferation absolutely has an effect on criminals, and would-be criminals.
JMO
I understand that but who are the people who get to make these decisions about what is morally right for the rest of us. Is there some group of people we can trust to make these decisions and know they will make the right ones each time. I think we right now we call them "congress" and by my math they get it WRONG 9 times out of 10.
The point is what is moral for you may not be moral for someone else and nobody has a right to tell others what is good or bad for them, people can make those decisions themselves. Read the book 1984 and see how you feel about having a Ministry of Morality making decisions for everyone about what they can watch, read, SEE, HEAR, taste, all of it decided by some group of people who we are just supposed to trust, why? JUST BECAUSE.
You also seem to assume the only reason to watch the video is PLEASURE OR AMUSEMENT but there are many, many other reasons for watching that video, be creative and you will realize that.
nursebeeme
06-06-2012, 01:26 PM
Police in Canada say notes were included in mailed packages containing body parts after the videotaped killing and dismemberment of a Chinese student.
Montreal Police Cmdr. Ian Lafreniere said Wednesday that one note was in the package opened last week at the ruling Conservative Party headquarters. He did not give details, but suspect Luka Rocco Magnotta faces a charge of threatening Canadian Prime Minister Stephen Harper.
Police previously denied there were notes. Lafreniere says police don't want copycats and are not releasing details.
Read more: http://www.seattlepi.com/news/article/Canada-police-Notes-found-in-body-parts-packages-3613274.php#ixzz1x2Epj9fz
---------
cerem0ny
06-06-2012, 01:27 PM
The US isnt far behind, Nanny State central New York has eliminated large helpings of soda pop, you can only buy 16 ounces at a time now because some people drink too much, so because some people abuse things the rest of us who do not have to be punished for it. By that logic we should ban or limit everything and let the government decide what is good and what is not good for us, since everything can be abused, there is no reason to allow people the right to make decisions for themselves anymore, we cant be trusted to do anything right only our perfect and all knowing elected leaders can make those decisions for us.
Here is the problem with all of this, where do we draw the line, we ban gore websites, then next week it is something else and the next week its another thing and it just keeps repeating itself over and over until suddenly you find yourself living back in Germany 1933 and the state defines your reality for you since your own eyes, ears, nose and mouth cannot be trusted to do so any longer.
I personally do not like the fact that history books show jewish people piled up atfter being killed in death camps but those pictures are an important part of our history and if there is one thing I am FOR it is the documentation of our lives and the things we do BOTH GOOD AND BAD for future generations to study and learn from. While this video is indeed disgusting and it challenges us in ways few things ever have it is important, for the sake of POSTERITY ALONE that we document it and make it available for future generations to study so as to prevent it from continuing to happen again.
I am sure it is very hurtful to the family of the victim to see these things on the internet but the fact that a few trees fall in the forest is not reason to immediately cut the rest of them down. There is a big picture to consider and the need to protect that big picture far outweighs the smaller issues that are the result of it.
I agree with you. First time poster btw, been following this scumbag character with morbid intensity for the past few days.
This issue is raised in 'crime and punishment' where, the protagonist hacks two women to death (pawnbrokers) for the 'betterment of humanity'. Whether he is morally right in doing so is left up to you, but as far as the law goes, its wrong, and law seems to trump all.
No need to answer this, just posing the question:
If your friend said to you, "come on over and watch a real snuff film tonight", would you?
There are some people who would never, ever, in a million years deliberately go and watch a snuff and dismemberment film, but, because of many different influences and factors, not the least of which is because it was so readily available on the Internet, hundreds of thousands of people watched that real life snuff and dismemberment video of the victim Jun Lin.
That, to me, is an issue worth discussing, because we all know those types of videos are out there. Not choosing to watch them, is not "sticking my head in the sand". I am hopeful that some poor soul who has to track these monsters down, catches them as a repurcussion of sites like these.
To blatantly display the video that is known to be a true, real life murder and dismemberment, crosses the boundaries, and to deliberately leave it on, is a crime, IMO.
Well said! Good for you for saying it!!
nursebeeme
06-06-2012, 01:28 PM
welcome to websleuths cerem0ny! :cheer:
Meowen
06-06-2012, 01:30 PM
I found a thread where Justin Lin posts the following (translated by Google):
"Looking for a MM to get married. Have relatives in CA. I work in Beijing, Wuhan, October 2005 FN. Undergraduate. IELTS5 5, for five years, the IT 175 65 28, is still relatively handsome, interested, contact ljustinian@gmail.com
Please do not call me. ! ~ ~"
Can anyone clarify for me what an "MM" might be?
male model?
Sigh Sister
06-06-2012, 01:31 PM
Found some more LM postings:
http://upload.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=221&topic_id=136758&mesg_id=136758
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=105&topic_id=8838204&mesg_id=8838204
Apparently, he was quickly banned. Ha.
Sorry if these have already been posted
PAXIMUS
06-06-2012, 01:31 PM
I agree with you. First time poster btw, been following this scumbag character with morbid intensity for the past few days.
This issue is raised in 'crime and punishment' where, the protagonist hacks two women to death (pawnbrokers) for the 'betterment of humanity'. Whether he is morally right in doing so is left up to you, but as far as the law goes, its wrong, and law seems to trump all.
Good films make you think about uncomfortable matters. Great example!
prima.facie
06-06-2012, 01:33 PM
The semantics do not matter.
It is a crime to film what he filmed.
It is a crime to knowingly publish that film.
You call it a nanny state, I call it what is morally and legally right.
Where do you draw the line? Do you not draw the line at murder? Sexual assault? Dismemberment. That stuff should NOT be online.
No wonder LE has their hands full with the proliferation of crimes throughout the Internet. The deviant images and videos are prolific, and a LEO once told me the proliferation absolutely has an effect on criminals, and would-be criminals.
JMO
but do you really want.........the government........to define what is moral?
because if you do, being overweight will soon be legally a crime.....
viewing any type of pornography may soon be legally a crime.....
what if they demand that is is moral that you attend church at least once a week? or that is inmoral to do so.
i just dont understand people wanting the government to put us all on puppet strings or turn us into "yessir" robots....
shouldnt it be up to YOU an individual as to what is moral for YOU?
because like i said on my other post...i most certainly do not want ANY MORE people telling me HOW to live my life and what i am allowed to eat, drink, view, read and listen to.
while i dont indulge in gore and all that.....that is MY choice.
BANNING things NEVER EVER EVER EVER EVER works. it didnt work back in the days of prohibition....it doesnt work now. look at the drugs that are ILLEGAL and yet it does not stop people from using them and commiting crimes while strung out on them. when we take away personal freedoms, people will rebel and find other ways of obtaining what is morally wrong to individuals.
less government....more personal responsbility.
/rant. lol with that, I respect your opinion on it all :)
kevmoley
06-06-2012, 01:34 PM
wow, a lot to catch up on.. I too am new but do have a couple of questions:
1st, I read on here regarding body parts (hand & foot) being found outside a school in Acapulco. Yes, I know Mexico is notorious for its drug cartels but has any of those parts been identified to belong to rival gangs.
What if LM met the 66 year old, retired Mexican Airlines employee, HM and HM being much older want to impress the younger LM by taking him on a vacation to Mexico? He would assume he would have free access to fly anytime being retire from an airline.
Has anyone looked into seeing if HM flew out of the country around the time of the murders in Acapuco? Did he have a companion on the flight? If yes, could there be hotel footage of the two in Acapulco that could finally connect LM with HM?
I know it is a far fetched thought but I had to ask
Oh, the other question is regard the so called snuff film? How do we know he was already murdered on the tape? Couldn't he have been heavily sedated? I read on here that ML was interested in the drugs to sedate.
not_my_kids
06-06-2012, 01:34 PM
The semantics do not matter.
It is a crime to film what he filmed.
It is a crime to knowingly publish that film.
You call it a nanny state, I call it what is morally and legally right.
Where do you draw the line? Do you not draw the line at murder? Sexual assault? Dismemberment. That stuff should NOT be online.
No wonder LE has their hands full with the proliferation of crimes throughout the Internet. The deviant images and videos are prolific, and a LEO once told me the proliferation absolutely has an effect on criminals, and would-be criminals.
JMO
the semantics matter quite a bit. IMO. There are many that have said for years that there are no such things as snuff videos. None are known to exist, and they've never seen them, therefore they can't exist. Obviously, they exist, especially if there is an unedited version that LE has.
What was on that tape is not snuff material, there was no snuff. Some of us have fought hard to make the public aware of these things, and so yes, the terminology matters. The video that was posted online does not contain the act of murder.
Personally, I draw no lines. I believe that our world should be uncensored, and that we as humans should be responsible for censoring ourselves and the content we allow into our lives. Of course, if someone were to post a video of a crime they committed, then they should be prosecuted using that evidence, but to sanitize our world by removing everything that doesn't appeal to the majority is dangerous practice and completely nonsensical.
Dushi
06-06-2012, 01:34 PM
male model?
Male/Male
he is looking for a gay partner
scapa
06-06-2012, 01:35 PM
I'm no fan of censorship, but I'd venture to say that the web is not the drugstore of yore, with the skin mags tucked up behind the counter with only their titles showing. It's a whole lot easier to stumble on disturbing material, to share and store it, to replicate it. LRM's video isn't something I'll ever want to watch. I have no objections to others choosing to watch it, but the fact that it (a few days back, anyway) popped up early in the links on various search engines concerns me, as does the fact that the video's main character, the savagely murdered and degraded J Lin, has absolutely no way of choosing not to be distributed, viewed and chatted about in this way. And (speaking as a neutral) Why should a snuff video of a man involuntarily being abused and murdered (and abused again) not be treated in the same way as, say, rape or child porn in terms of moral or legal sanctions? All involve serious crimes with the notion of non-consent at their core, surely.
s
Girlwiththestartat
06-06-2012, 01:35 PM
The 29-year-old porn actor used different music in each video but all of the songs dated to 1987. Police were unable to explain whether the year had particular significance for Magnotta, who was born Eric Newman in Scarborough in 1982.
This is mentioned in this article, not sure if it has been brought up here. I think we have made the connection to the American Psycho music.. but not sure if 1987 is relevant. As they mention he was born in '92 - so would have been 5. Maybe thats when things went really bad for him?
http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/article/1206739--luka-rocco-magnotta-may-have-posted-videos-while-on-the-run-montreal-police-say
HastingsChi
06-06-2012, 01:36 PM
arrgghh! LCA are claiming way too much credit with no proof.
"LCA says they were able to track Magnotta’s movements when repeated hits for the videos came first from France and then from Germany. They sent out the following press release on their role in the case yesterday.["
Just what does the above prove?? As I said earlier, there are over 60 million people in France and over 80 million in Germany. The fact that people were clicking on the clips in those countries proves nothing at all. Of course people were clicking on them, this was a big news story in their countries. Geez. :banghead:
Just another example of oportunistic people and organizations trying to have their "LOOK AT ME!" moment by almost literally stepping over a corpse to further their own agenda by capitalizing on a global news story.
YUCK!
Sent from my Samsung Galaxy S II
x_files
06-06-2012, 01:37 PM
I understand that but who are the people who get to make these decisions about what is morally right for the rest of us. Is there some group of people we can trust to make these decisions and know they will make the right ones each time. I think we right now we call them "congress" and by my math they get it WRONG 9 times out of 10.
The point is what is moral for you may not be moral for someone else and nobody has a right to tell others what is good or bad for them, people can make those decisions themselves. Read the book 1984 and see how you feel about having a Ministry of Morality making decisions for everyone about what they can watch, read, SEE, HEAR, taste, all of it decided by some group of people who we are just supposed to trust, why? JUST BECAUSE.
You also seem to assume the only reason to watch the video is PLEASURE OR AMUSEMENT but there are many, many other reasons for watching that video, be creative and you will realize that.
This is an excellent debate.
I do NOT approve of Nanny State laws like banning sodas over 16 oz, but do have a problem with snuff/violent gore involving humans, animals, children being online for entertainment or research for other copycat killers.
It's a tricky balancing act because, I do not like extreme censorship that leads to fascist regimes.
I do think the owner of the site should remove the film.
nursebeeme
06-06-2012, 01:37 PM
jmhoo: I am not for bans on things.
In this case, however, I AM for trying to get this particular video PULLED from the internet (yeah I know, good luck with that) for the sake of the VICTIM who was murdered and dismembered in a horrid way.
not_my_kids
06-06-2012, 01:38 PM
wow, a lot to catch up on.. I too am new but do have a couple of questions:
1st, I read on here regarding body parts (hand & foot) being found outside a school in Acapulco. Yes, I know Mexico is notorious for its drug cartels but has any of those parts been identified to belong to rival gangs.
What if LM met the 66 year old, retired Mexican Airlines employee, HM and HM being much older want to impress the younger LM by taking him on a vacation to Mexico? He would assume he would have free access to fly anytime being retire from an airline.
Has anyone looked into seeing if HM flew out of the country around the time of the murders in Acapuco? Did he have a companion on the flight? If yes, could there be hotel footage of the two in Acapulco that could finally connect LM with HM?
I know it is a far fetched thought but I had to ask
I doubt that simply because if I'm remembering correctly, the Hollywood murder victim was in extremely bad financial situation (homeless or close to it) and wouldn't have been financing any trips anywhere.
Please, anyone that followed the Hollywood case more closely than I, if I am incorrect, correct me please.
You also seem to assume the only reason to watch the video is PLEASURE OR AMUSEMENT but there are many, many other reasons for watching that video, be creative and you will realize that.
respectfully snipped by me-
Interesting you should use the word creative. I'd love to hear your creative reasons for wanting the right to witness this poor mans degradation other than for twisted pleasure or fun? I mean I understand why a jury needs to see it or LE needs to see it or even why the media needs to see it to describe it to us. But why must YOU???
Are you planning on solving the crime? Are you a forensic psychiatrist? Or are you just someone whose right to having your fascination satisfied outweighs the rights of the victim and his family to privacy.
Best Gore exists to make money for it's twisted owner not to better the human condition.
Following your logic it would be remiss of the principal of those schools in Vancouver not to show the elementary students the snuff film linked to the package they received. Where do you draw the line. Children should have the same creative rights as the rest of us. If it's an educational tool for the masses what better place to start the creative education than in a school right.
Girlwiththestartat
06-06-2012, 01:40 PM
Investigators are also attempting to determine whether Magnotta commented anonymously on the grisly video of the butchery and dismemberment of a Chinese university student, apparently on May 25.
“It's possible. This will be verified in interrogation, but I did see the comments (that might seem to be from him),” Mainville, the head of the Montreal police Major Crimes unit, told La Presse.
Sorry to quote the same article twice, didn't read this far before posting prior.
Commenting on the actual video, I would take this to mean they have been looking at the documentingreality comments? Was there anywhere else he was suspected to be commenting on the actual killvid?
nursebeeme
06-06-2012, 01:41 PM
does anyone remember that case where the girl was killed in a car crash and there was video of it and her parents tried to get it (without success) removed from the internet? In fact the attention that it drew (reports of them trying to get it removed) actually increased the number of people trying to find it to watch it...
I could see that happening here.. (re: making a huge deal about it=more people trying to find it to watch, etc etc etc)
I hope that made sense
kevmoley
06-06-2012, 01:42 PM
I doubt that simply because if I'm remembering correctly, the Hollywood murder victim was in extremely bad financial situation (homeless or close to it) and wouldn't have been financing any trips anywhere.
Please, anyone that followed the Hollywood case more closely than I, if I am incorrect, correct me please.
To be honest, I do not know anything about the case in Hollywood or Mexico until I read them on here.. I just thought it could be another angle to look at.
not_my_kids
06-06-2012, 01:43 PM
respectfully snipped by me-
Interesting you should use the word creative. I'd love to hear your creative reasons for wanting the right to witness this poor mans degradation other than for twisted pleasure or fun? I mean I understand why a jury needs to see it or LE needs to see it or even why the media needs to see it to describe it to us. But why must YOU???
Are you planning on solving the crime? Are you a forensic psychiatrist? Or are you just someone whose right to having your fascination satisfied outweighs the rights of the victim and his family to privacy.
Best Gore exists to make money for it's twisted owner not to better the human condition.
To examine not the victim, but the killer.
To further understanding of how someone can do something like this.
To be able to remind ourselves that this is what we are fighting...things this depraved do happen.
To be able to prove to ourselves and others that the net is a dark place, not just the dark web, but all of it.
To remind people of what they are letting into their lives (potentially) when they live their lives online.
To document that humans aren't all goodness and light.
I could go on if necessary.
PAXIMUS
06-06-2012, 01:43 PM
the semantics matter quite a bit. IMO. There are many that have said for years that there are no such things as snuff videos. None are known to exist, and they've never seen them, therefore they can't exist. Obviously, they exist, especially if there is an unedited version that LE has.
What was on that tape is not snuff material, there was no snuff. Some of us have fought hard to make the public aware of these things, and so yes, the terminology matters. The video that was posted online does not contain the act of murder.
Personally, I draw no lines. I believe that our world should be uncensored, and that we as humans should be responsible for censoring ourselves and the content we allow into our lives. Of course, if someone were to post a video of a crime they committed, then they should be prosecuted using that evidence, but to sanitize our world by removing everything that doesn't appeal to the majority is dangerous practice and completely nonsensical.
Well said, it is not my job or business to go around drawing lines for everyone else anyway, I can only draw lines for myself and let you decide where you draw your own lines.
Like I said before and like Prima said, banning things doesnt work anyway, it just makes people more curious and want that which is banned even more, better that we EDUCATE PEOPLE and we do that by first making sure they define things properly and in this case, IT IS NOT A SNUFF FILM and yes it matters if we call a thing something that it is not, the definition of doing that is PROPAGANDA. And those who are willing to use PROPAGANDA to influence the rest of us and how we think are FAR MORE DANGEROUS TO A FREE SOCIETY than that film WILL EVER BE.
Girlwiththestartat
06-06-2012, 01:44 PM
respectfully snipped by me-
Interesting you should use the word creative. I'd love to hear your creative reasons for wanting the right to witness this poor mans degradation other than for twisted pleasure or fun? I mean I understand why a jury needs to see it or LE needs to see it or even why the media needs to see it to describe it to us. But why must YOU???
Are you planning on solving the crime? Are you a forensic psychiatrist? Or are you just someone whose right to having your fascination satisfied outweighs the rights of the victim and his family to privacy.
Best Gore exists to make money for it's twisted owner not to better the human condition.
Just a note on your last comment there - Best Gore exists to make money for its twisted owner.
I'll agree - he probably had the wrong intentions when starting the site. However, one thing he said has stuck with me. He commented that because of his site, people are able to see possible consequences of actions they make daily - for example speeding. It can deter people from speeding, or other high risk scenarios. Plenty of organizations use this scare tactic, I have been to a P.A.R.T.Y. program or D.A.R.E. program where they show teens horrific pictures to scare them out of drinking and driving.
The 1 lunatic 1 ice pick video is for sure well out of this range, and I would expect it be housed somewhere on the deep web as opposed to a gore site to garner attention - so I agree with the fact it should be removed and not accessible.
But in the broad stream I think best gore does have a minimal reason to show SOME of the things they do.
DD_bwest
06-06-2012, 01:44 PM
does anyone remember that case where the girl was killed in a car crash and there was video of it and her parents tried to get it (without success) removed from the internet? In fact the attention that it drew (reports of them trying to get it removed) actually increased the number of people trying to find it to watch it...
I could see that happening here.. (re: making a huge deal about it=more people trying to find it to watch, etc etc etc)
I hope that made sense
i believe someone posted this before.. ill scroll up and edit in a credit..
edit: i believe it was Paximus
Streisand effect - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
AudreyRose
06-06-2012, 01:44 PM
This is mentioned in this article, not sure if it has been brought up here. I think we have made the connection to the American Psycho music.. but not sure if 1987 is relevant. As they mention he was born in '92 - so would have been 5. Maybe thats when things went really bad for him?
http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/article/1206739--luka-rocco-magnotta-may-have-posted-videos-while-on-the-run-montreal-police-say
Apparently he had some interest in the "Moors Murders" and used the name "John Kilbride" to sign the e-mail he wrote to The Sun in England. John Kilbride was one of the moors murder victims. His Alexisvaranovich YT account also had favourited a video related to the Moors murders I believe. One of the bodies of the moors murder victims was discovered in 1987 (thought I'm not sure which). Just a possibility.
SurfieTX
06-06-2012, 01:45 PM
The foot and hand that were mailed to two Vancouver-area schools are believed to belong to Lin Jun — the man Luka Rocco Magnotta is accused of killing, dismembering and cannibilizing, police say.
The body parts were mailed from Montreal, and all evidence collected thus far indicates they belong to Lin, Montreal police Cmdr. Ian Lafreniere said Wednesday.
DNA testing will be conducted to be certain. Vancouver police are delivering the foot and hand back to Montreal.
Montreal police revealed at a news conference Tuesday that the head, right foot and right hand of Lin were still missing.
Read more: http://www.canada.com/news/Foot+hand+mailed+schools+believed+from+Luka+Magnot ta+alleged+victim/6739411/story.html#ixzz1x2Jg1K61
wow, a lot to catch up on.. I too am new but do have a couple of questions:
1st, I read on here regarding body parts (hand & foot) being found outside a school in Acapulco. Yes, I know Mexico is notorious for its drug cartels but has any of those parts been identified to belong to rival gangs.
What if LM met the 66 year old, retired Mexican Airlines employee, HM and HM being much older want to impress the younger LM by taking him on a vacation to Mexico? He would assume he would have free access to fly anytime being retire from an airline.
Has anyone looked into seeing if HM flew out of the country around the time of the murders in Acapuco? Did he have a companion on the flight? If yes, could there be hotel footage of the two in Acapulco that could finally connect LM with HM?
I know it is a far fetched thought but I had to ask
Oh, the other question is regard the so called snuff film? How do we know he was already murdered on the tape? Couldn't he have been heavily sedated? I read on here that ML was interested in the drugs to sedate.
W.S. thread for victim Harvey Medallion
http://websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=160272&page=3
not_my_kids
06-06-2012, 01:51 PM
I said when he was arrested that I expected more pieces to be mailed within the next few days. If not mailed, then recieved, having been mailed prior. He wasn't done yet.
He still isn't. I'm waiting for whatever he has planned for his birthday. There is something somewhere either waiting with an accomplice or set to upload automatically. I just...feel it. If that makes sense, which I know it doesn't.
By the way, has there been any more said about the person he was spotted with earlier, at the bar/pub/whatever it was in Paris. I don't know if that person might be a victim, an accomplice, or just an unlucky person now forever linked to Luka, but I'd like to know.
PAXIMUS
06-06-2012, 01:52 PM
To examine not the victim, but the killer.
To further understanding of how someone can do something like this.
To be able to remind ourselves that this is what we are fighting...things this depraved do happen.
To be able to prove to ourselves and others that the net is a dark place, not just the dark web, but all of it.
To remind people of what they are letting into their lives (potentially) when they live their lives online.
To document that humans aren't all goodness and light.
I could go on if necessary.
You answered for me, people study crime, period. We need to study it and get in to the heads of killers in order to prevent it and catch them.
Hand and foot mailed to Vancouver schools linked to Luka Magnotta case
http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/article/1206724--hand-and-foot-mailed-to-vancouver-schools-linked-to-luka-magnotta-case
PAXIMUS
06-06-2012, 01:53 PM
i believe someone posted this before.. ill scroll up and edit in a credit..
edit: i believe it was Paximus
Streisand effect - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Streisand_effect)
Yes, SE is very real, happens a lot online with things.
x_files
06-06-2012, 01:53 PM
respectfully snipped by me-
Interesting you should use the word creative. I'd love to hear your creative reasons for wanting the right to witness this poor mans degradation other than for twisted pleasure or fun? I mean I understand why a jury needs to see it or LE needs to see it or even why the media needs to see it to describe it to us. But why must YOU???
Are you planning on solving the crime? Are you a forensic psychiatrist? Or are you just someone whose right to having your fascination satisfied outweighs the rights of the victim and his family to privacy.
Best Gore exists to make money for it's twisted owner not to better the human condition.
Following your logic it would be remiss of the principal of those schools in Vancouver not to show the elementary students the snuff film linked to the package they received. Where do you draw the line. Children should have the same creative rights as the rest of us. If it's an educational tool for the masses what better place to start the creative education than in a school right.
I choose not to watch the video. I am not LE or on the jury. I have no interest on having this scarred into my memory forever.
I will leave it to the professionals and let justice be served.
prima.facie
06-06-2012, 01:53 PM
does anyone remember that case where the girl was killed in a car crash and there was video of it and her parents tried to get it (without success) removed from the internet? In fact the attention that it drew (reports of them trying to get it removed) actually increased the number of people trying to find it to watch it...
I could see that happening here.. (re: making a huge deal about it=more people trying to find it to watch, etc etc etc)
I hope that made sense
the problem is...the deep web and torrents. that video can never be removed....the deep web is alive and active and this video and similar will be sent all around the world. then there are the people who have downloaded..
once something has been posted online, the chance of it ever going away is nearly impossible w/out 100% censorship and an army of people working to remove what they want removed....it would be never ending....
that is why its always a good rule of thumb that if you dont want what you post ever coming back to haunt you, keep your thoughts to yourself....
prima.facie
06-06-2012, 01:55 PM
respectfully snipped by me-
Interesting you should use the word creative. I'd love to hear your creative reasons for wanting the right to witness this poor mans degradation other than for twisted pleasure or fun? I mean I understand why a jury needs to see it or LE needs to see it or even why the media needs to see it to describe it to us. But why must YOU???
Are you planning on solving the crime? Are you a forensic psychiatrist? Or are you just someone whose right to having your fascination satisfied outweighs the rights of the victim and his family to privacy.
Best Gore exists to make money for it's twisted owner not to better the human condition.
im not speaking for PAX as he is capable himself :floorlaugh:
but for me....when i first viewed it, it was BEFORE this story hit WS and the news. I was following something else and it led me there. i didnt think it was real. when it hit the news and it was being discussed here - many many many people did not believe it was real. they also did not believe LM had anything to do with it.
as a criminal investigation major i have GREAT inerest in these things....i study these things. so i went back and watched the video to look at the blood, the post mordem death stuff.................and to analyze the vid against known pics of LM to prove it was all actually him.
there are many people like me on this forum and thruout who study this stuff and it is a learning experience.
do you know how many people have admitted here and other places they didnt even realize this sh.t was going on across the world? they had no idea this kind of evil was existing......NOW they know. now they realize life isnt about rainbows....
while i find it disgustingly horrible what happened, i also can learn from it. may not make sense to many, but when i look at dead bodies (from various means) all the time, this is one more example, i learn.....
i most certainly didnt just sit there watching it because there wasnt something else on TV....
in regards to your comment on bestgore's owner.....i am absolutely sure he would beg to defer with you....he has made comment after comment of his intention for his site....people dont have to visit it. and people wont.
with that said....what are your thoughts on the mass amount of books out there for educational purposes in which anyone can buy that show MUCH MUCH more gory stuff?
does anyone remember that case where the girl was killed in a car crash and there was video of it and her parents tried to get it (without success) removed from the internet? In fact the attention that it drew (reports of them trying to get it removed) actually increased the number of people trying to find it to watch it...
I could see that happening here.. (re: making a huge deal about it=more people trying to find it to watch, etc etc etc)
I hope that made sense
Makes total sense but in a perfect world the person who posted it online would have had enough empathy not to post it or the grace to comply with her grieving relatives request to remove it. We need to fight for a world where empathy thrives, not the rights of those who possess none but want to satisfy their morbid curiosity.
What if that was me on that video is what people should be asking. If you wouldn't want to be internet fodder for the masses then you have to be the change you want to see in the world and not exploit the victim here who has no voice. Do unto others as you would have them do onto you. It's humanity 101 really IMO.
for what its worth
06-06-2012, 01:56 PM
No need to answer this, just posing the question:
If your friend said to you, "come on over and watch a real snuff film tonight", would you?
There are some people who would never, ever, in a million years deliberately go and watch a snuff and dismemberment film, but, because of many different influences and factors, not the least of which is because it was so readily available on the Internet, hundreds of thousands of people watched that real life snuff and dismemberment video of the victim Jun Lin.
That, to me, is an issue worth discussing, because we all know those types of videos are out there. Not choosing to watch them, is not "sticking my head in the sand". I am hopeful that some poor soul who has to track these monsters down, catches them as a repurcussion of sites like these.
To blatantly display the video that is known to be a true, real life murder and dismemberment, crosses the boundaries, and to deliberately leave it on, is a crime, IMO.
I'd like to add, what about the rights of the person who met their end in the most horrific way imaginable? For those arguing about their rights to view 'reality', are your rights greater than the rights of this person?
I'm not in favour of censorship but in the case of murder or the like, I am. It's a respect issue and one which I think most of us would want when we meet our end. I for one, would never want photos of my death to be made available for anyone to see. It's my life. It fills me with dread, actually and I really feel it's a violation of the victim's rights.
[EDIT: I also did not watch the video for this reason as well as not thinking that I could handle viewing it]
Dushi
06-06-2012, 01:59 PM
I'd like to add, what about the rights of the person who met their end in the most horrific way imaginable? For those arguing about their rights to view 'reality', are your rights greater than the rights of this person?
I'm not in favour of censorship but in the case of murder or the like, I am. It's a respect issue and one which I think most of us would want when we meet our end. I for one, would never want photos of my death to be made available for anyone to see and given that it's my life. It fills me with dread, actually and I really feel it's a violation of the victim's rights.
[EDIT: I also did not watch the video for this reason as well as not thinking that I could handle viewing it]
This is how I feel
I couldn't find the words to express it
Thank You
matou
06-06-2012, 02:02 PM
In regards to this as well, not sure if it sensationalizing but they do mention in the same article he was caught looking at 'pornographic pictures of himself'.
Maybe this means it was due to him being narcissistic, and not an overly sexual need?
Again, could just be news outlets 'jumbling' various reports.
He may have wanted to post a new `sexy` video of himself to his "fans" by editing those porno photos of himself. JMO
Sigh Sister
06-06-2012, 02:03 PM
Hand and foot mailed to Vancouver schools linked to Luka Magnotta case
http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/article/1206724--hand-and-foot-mailed-to-vancouver-schools-linked-to-luka-magnotta-case
Thanks for the link. Now we know it's not a copycat.
The problem I mostly have with the dissemination of the video is that so many people make rude and disrespectful comments in response to it. If everyone were like websleuths members who have studied the video to possibly help LE and understand that kind of sick mind, I wouldn't mind it so much.
sillybilly
06-06-2012, 02:07 PM
Hey guyz ... catching up and still in thread #5 but wanted to point this out:
The addy for JL re the sublet of the apartment is different from the one in the whois search for the homobjs website ... both on St. Mathieu, but different street numbers (2121 vs 1160)
not_my_kids
06-06-2012, 02:08 PM
You answered for me, people study crime, period. We need to study it and get in to the heads of killers in order to prevent it and catch them.
I hope I didn't step on your toes, but it bothers me deeply when someone says, "there is no use in this for me, so there should be no use in it for anyone else."
The world is scary. The things that happen in it are scary. The people that allow themselves to see that and learn to function with that knowledge are the ones that are better prepared for evil when they do come face to face with it. It is my personal belief, nothing more, and no more valid than anyone else's beliefs to the contrary, but I'm still going to defend it.
I hope I didn't seem to be trying to fight your battles or speak for you, you are perfectly capable of doing all that on your own.
Jujercu
06-06-2012, 02:13 PM
In regards to this as well, not sure if it sensationalizing but they do mention in the same article he was caught looking at 'pornographic pictures of himself'.
Maybe this means it was due to him being narcissistic, and not an overly sexual need?
Again, could just be news outlets 'jumbling' various reports.
Its always possible he was just looking at one of the many sites that also include shots from his porn movie (BTW I have only been able to find 1 porn movie he did..others are labeled as him, but if you look at the face it's not him...I heard he was trying to "bury" any real ones out there?)and he wasn't looking at naked pics of himself, so much as he was checking out the ED site (who happens to have some shots of the only real LM porno I've seen)..
This also brings up my question as to why the headlines even bother to call him a porn actor...if he only did one or two...
Just some thoughts...need to go back and read...was away :)
im not speaking for PAX as he is capable himself :floorlaugh:
but for me....when i first viewed it, it was BEFORE this story hit WS and the news. I was following something else and it led me there. i didnt think it was real. when it hit the news and it was being discussed here - many many many people did not believe it was real. they also did not believe LM had anything to do with it.
as a criminal investigation major i have GREAT inerest in these things....i study these things. so i went back and watched the video to look at the blood, the post mordem death stuff.................and to analyze the vid against known pics of LM to prove it was all actually him.
there are many people like me on this forum and thruout who study this stuff and it is a learning experience.
do you know how many people have admitted here and other places they didnt even realize this sh.t was going on across the world? they had no idea this kind of evil was existing......NOW they know. now they realize life isnt about rainbows....
while i find it disgustingly horrible what happened, i also can learn from it. may not make sense to many, but when i look at dead bodies (from various means) all the time, this is one more example, i learn.....
i most certainly didnt just sit there watching it because there wasnt something else on TV....
in regards to your comment on bestgore's owner.....i am absolutely sure he would beg to defer with you....he has made comment after comment of his intention for his site....people dont have to visit it. and people wont.
with that said....what are your thoughts on the mass amount of books out there for educational purposes in which anyone can buy that show MUCH MUCH more gory stuff?
As a criminal investigation major I agree you may have a legitimate reason for viewing the tape. I'm a Nurse and contributing to the degradation of a victim isn't in my job description. I've had the written report and know enough about physiology and anatomy to not need a slideshow or video on what damage an icepick can do or what masturbation with a severed limb might look like. Being creative, I can use my imagination.
In a market economy, if there was no market there would be no need for the product. Obviously there's a huge market of criminal investigators satisfying a demand for educational material depicting snuff. As long as there's a market I guess we can expect a constant need for new even more creative gorier gore.
Regarding the Best Gore site. I've heard and read his justifications and I'm calling BS on him. If he's providing an educational service then people should be required to register and verify their age before accessing his educational material. But no, that would cut down on the number of hits he gets and the revenue his 'public service' provides.
MO
udar55
06-06-2012, 02:17 PM
Found some more LM postings:
http://upload.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=221&topic_id=136758&mesg_id=136758
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=105&topic_id=8838204&mesg_id=8838204
Apparently, he was quickly banned. Ha.
Sorry if these have already been posted
Great find! Had not seen those before.
It is really insane at how much this guy put himself all over the place online. I've found Youtube channels where literally his various personas are all agreeing with each other about Luka. It is like schizophrenia captured in text.
thefragile7393
06-06-2012, 02:18 PM
I have an appt to tend to but for the record I did not watch the video right away it took a lot for me to get to that point, having served in a war theater and seen that type of violence first hand I dont need to revisit it in my free time and bring back those haunting memories. But since I do work in criminal law I founid I was unable to have a real conversation about this case without knowing what was on that video so I watched it ONE TIME and that is it, I do sort of regret it but at least now I can have an informed discussion about this case and I also understand that our world isnt the place many think it is, those rose colored glasses are nice but they dont tell us the truth.
You don't need to watch this video to have an informed discussion or understand that the world is ugly. To each their own of course...
Sent from my SGH-T989 using Tapatalk 2
not_my_kids
06-06-2012, 02:18 PM
the problem is...the deep web and torrents. that video can never be removed....the deep web is alive and active and this video and similar will be sent all around the world. then there are the people who have downloaded..
once something has been posted online, the chance of it ever going away is nearly impossible w/out 100% censorship and an army of people working to remove what they want removed....it would be never ending....
that is why its always a good rule of thumb that if you dont want what you post ever coming back to haunt you, keep your thoughts to yourself....
I watched it once not fully knowing what was on it. Yes, I knew the basis, but not enough to prepare myself. I ended up skimming it in one minute intervals, and then threw up, poured myself a good shot of Jack, threw up again, got smart enough to put the Jack in some Coke, and determined that I was never going online again.
Then I watched it a second time because there was some controversy about the type of animal in the vid and because I felt that those that didn't watch it still needed to know what they were getting involved in when they got involved with the case. I detached as much as possible (meaning I got just buzzed enough to pretend it wasn't real), and watched it a second time, transcribing carefully what I saw. This way others could know exactly what was on it, and any future questions that I might have about it would already be answered. (Luka wasn't caught yet.)
I never downloaded it, and frankly, that is the only part that bothers me about the vid being out there, is teh ability to download it for whatever reason.
It'll never be gone. There are other vids out there that are worse, and just like Jun's final moments and dismemberment, those vidoes will never be removed either. Videos like this that are posted on the surface web might be used for something besides entertainment. Those that are posted deep web and downloaded into private collections are almost always used for further immoral purposes.
Jezbel
06-06-2012, 02:19 PM
respectfully snipped by me-
Following your logic it would be remiss of the principal of those schools in Vancouver not to show the elementary students the snuff film linked to the package they received. Where do you draw the line. Children should have the same creative rights as the rest of us. If it's an educational tool for the masses what better place to start the creative education than in a school right.
RSBM:
No offense intended but your last paragraph went a bit too far off the deep end. They never said it was educational, the website owner did and that website is intended for adults not elementary school children.
Adults have the right to watch/read/listen to what they want a child should never be subjected to anything like this.
JMO
A_News_Junkie
06-06-2012, 02:20 PM
does anyone remember that case where the girl was killed in a car crash and there was video of it and her parents tried to get it (without success) removed from the internet? In fact the attention that it drew (reports of them trying to get it removed) actually increased the number of people trying to find it to watch it...
I could see that happening here.. (re: making a huge deal about it=more people trying to find it to watch, etc etc etc)
I hope that made sense
I will never forget the horror of that. Nikki Catsouras was the girl.
Nikki Catsouras photographs controversy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Sigh Sister
06-06-2012, 02:21 PM
The suggestion that those of us who feel that these types of videos should not be on the internet are wearing rose colored glasses is condescending. I'm fully aware of the evils that exist in this world, and I know this without ever having watched the video or any like it.
Jujercu
06-06-2012, 02:23 PM
This is mentioned in this article, not sure if it has been brought up here. I think we have made the connection to the American Psycho music.. but not sure if 1987 is relevant. As they mention he was born in '92 - so would have been 5. Maybe thats when things went really bad for him?
http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/article/1206739--luka-rocco-magnotta-may-have-posted-videos-while-on-the-run-montreal-police-say
Was just going to post that! lol...maybe something bad happened to him that year...he would have been 5...or maybe no meaning other than the songs themselves..
pippirose
06-06-2012, 02:23 PM
This is mentioned in this article, not sure if it has been brought up here. I think we have made the connection to the American Psycho music.. but not sure if 1987 is relevant. As they mention he was born in '92 - so would have been 5. Maybe thats when things went really bad for him?
http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/article/1206739--luka-rocco-magnotta-may-have-posted-videos-while-on-the-run-montreal-police-say
I remember reading (somewhere) that he went to live with his grandmother when he was five?
james62
06-06-2012, 02:23 PM
Its always possible he was just looking at one of the many sites that also include shots from his porn movie (BTW I have only been able to find 1 porn movie he did..others are labeled as him, but if you look at the face it's not him...I heard he was trying to "bury" any real ones out there?)and he wasn't looking at naked pics of himself, so much as he was checking out the ED site (who happens to have some shots of the only real LM porno I've seen)..
This also brings up my question as to why the headlines even bother to call him a porn actor...if he only did one or two...
Just some thoughts...need to go back and read...was away :)
Interesting post.
Many sites are still talking about him as a porn actor, and some (in the UK at least) are referring to him as a porn star, which he certainly never was.
He made a couple of low-grade porn flicks for the web, that's it. Thousands of people have done that. He also posted a clip purporting to be him which isn't.
**maybe too much info for some**
I saw a preview clip of one of his rare porno clips from a few years back. He was cute, but seemed very detached. He seemed so bored I wondered how he had an e******n. It reminded me of the escort review he had which said that trying to make love with him was like trying to do it with a wet fish.
AudreyRose
06-06-2012, 02:24 PM
"Body found in burning car near Boucherville"
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montreal/story/2012/06/06/montreal-body-burned-car.html
The police in Montreal are being kept ridiculously busy. I have to tip my hat to them, the past few weeks have been unreal. One thing after another.
Found some more LM postings:
http://upload.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=221&topic_id=136758&mesg_id=136758
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=105&topic_id=8838204&mesg_id=8838204
Apparently, he was quickly banned. Ha.
Sorry if these have already been posted
Same or similar text
http://estrip.org/articles/read/lukamagnotta/49152/My-Letter-To-A-Moron.html
http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20090510140736AAeY1i9
More posts
http://estrip.org/articles/read/lukamagnotta/49154/Someone-Sent-Me-This...-So-Cute.html
http://verytags.com/family-relationships-marriage-divorce/43481/
prima.facie
06-06-2012, 02:28 PM
The suggestion that those of us who feel that these types of videos should not be on the internet are wearing rose colored glasses is condescending. I'm fully aware of the evils that exist in this world, and I know this without ever having watched the video or any like it.
i dont think the meaning was "those who dont want to watch it" nor was it meant to offend anyone here...
i read numerous comments here and other places where people admitted they were naive to the evils that happen in this world....
i have a friend whom i was sort of discussing this case with and she was SHOCKED that things like this happened in the world.
so in reality, there are a load of people who truly do not realize what evil lurks out there.....
jeanne
06-06-2012, 02:30 PM
Poor Luka...he's frightened...his new identity? VICTIM>
http://news.nationalpost.com/2012/06/06/luka-rocco-magnotta-fearing-for-his-safety-in-berlin-prison-lawyer-reveals/?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter
x_files
06-06-2012, 02:30 PM
As a criminal investigation major I agree you may have a legitimate reason for viewing the tape. I'm a Nurse and contributing to the degradation of a victim isn't in my job description. I've had the written report and know enough about physiology and anatomy to not need a slideshow or video on what damage an icepick can do or what masturbation with a severed limb might look like. Being creative, I can use my imagination.
In a market economy, if there was no market there would be no need for the product. Obviously there's a huge market of criminal investigators satisfying a demand for educational material depicting snuff. As long as there's a market I guess we can expect a constant need for new even more creative gorier gore.
Regarding the Best Gore site. I've heard and read his justifications and I'm calling BS on him. If he's providing an educational service then people should be required to register and verify their age before accessing his educational material. But no, that would cut down on the number of hits he gets and the revenue his 'public service' provides.
MO
I would be in favor of the videos only to be available to those studying law, investigation, etc...however, I know that will not happen.
There's no need for teenagers or weirdos to be viewing it.
prima.facie
06-06-2012, 02:32 PM
Poor Luka...he's frightened...his new identity? VICTIM>
http://news.nationalpost.com/2012/06/06/luka-rocco-magnotta-fearing-for-his-safety-in-berlin-prison-lawyer-reveals/?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter
he should be....he is a walking target in just about any prison....for so many reasons...
for what its worth
06-06-2012, 02:33 PM
i dont think the meaning was "those who dont want to watch it" nor was it meant to offend anyone here...
i read numerous comments here and other places where people admitted they were naive to the evils that happen in this world....
i have a friend whom i was sort of discussing this case with and she was SHOCKED that things like this happened in the world.
so in reality, there are a load of people who truly do not realize what evil lurks out there.....
To be fair though, you just have to read or watch the news to realise that these things happen in the world. Viewing the video isn't imperative to understanding that there are some truly twisted individuals out there.
Jujercu
06-06-2012, 02:33 PM
the problem is...the deep web and torrents. that video can never be removed....the deep web is alive and active and this video and similar will be sent all around the world. then there are the people who have downloaded..
once something has been posted online, the chance of it ever going away is nearly impossible w/out 100% censorship and an army of people working to remove what they want removed....it would be never ending....
that is why its always a good rule of thumb that if you dont want what you post ever coming back to haunt you, keep your thoughts to yourself....
That was the "Porsche Girl"..but it wasn't a video from what I understand it was pictures. The young girl got into an argument with her parents and grabbed her dads keys and took the 150k porsche up to 150 mph and crashed it into a concrete toll both. The pictures were leaked and all over the internet. The worst part was some a**hats sent them to her father with the title "Hi Daddy..I miss you" or something of the like..horrible..and heartbreaking.. I don't have a specific link..but google porsche girl and you will find the stories and reports.
Lexiintoronto
06-06-2012, 02:33 PM
I understand that but who are the people who get to make these decisions about what is morally right for the rest of us. Is there some group of people we can trust to make these decisions and know they will make the right ones each time. I think we right now we call them "congress" and by my math they get it WRONG 9 times out of 10.
The point is what is moral for you may not be moral for someone else and nobody has a right to tell others what is good or bad for them, people can make those decisions themselves. Read the book 1984 and see how you feel about having a Ministry of Morality making decisions for everyone about what they can watch, read, SEE, HEAR, taste, all of it decided by some group of people who we are just supposed to trust, why? JUST BECAUSE.
You also seem to assume the only reason to watch the video is PLEASURE OR AMUSEMENT but there are many, many other reasons for watching that video, be creative and you will realize that.
BBM
I don't think anyone here is presuming that people here are watching the Jun Lin murder video with 'pleasure or amusement', although I still can't comprehend why any rational person would choose to view a snuff film and then openly discuss it frame by frame.
You've suggested being 'creative' in order to find the reason that people are choosing to watch the video. Part of my living is made by my creative thinking and I'm still failing to see how viewing the video, knowing full well what it depicts, can be excused by anyone other than LE and the Crown.
SmoothOperator
06-06-2012, 02:33 PM
Oops..
~n/t~
06-06-2012, 02:35 PM
Montreal police confirmed Tuesday that some body parts are still missing from Lin's remains, but authorities did not believe they were in the postal system.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montreal/story/2012/06/06/bc-body-parts-schools.html
How does he know?
DD_bwest
06-06-2012, 02:37 PM
Poor Luka...he's frightened...his new identity? VICTIM>
http://news.nationalpost.com/2012/06/06/luka-rocco-magnotta-fearing-for-his-safety-in-berlin-prison-lawyer-reveals/?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter
the inmates probably do wanna beat his ass.. not because of what they've heard about him.. but because hes such an arrogant prick.. i hear germany is hardly paying attention to him because they had a grizzly murder of their own..
PAXIMUS
06-06-2012, 02:38 PM
I hope I didn't step on your toes, but it bothers me deeply when someone says, "there is no use in this for me, so there should be no use in it for anyone else."
The world is scary. The things that happen in it are scary. The people that allow themselves to see that and learn to function with that knowledge are the ones that are better prepared for evil when they do come face to face with it. It is my personal belief, nothing more, and no more valid than anyone else's beliefs to the contrary, but I'm still going to defend it.
I hope I didn't seem to be trying to fight your battles or speak for you, you are perfectly capable of doing all that on your own.
You didnt step on any toes, your voice is as important as anyone else and I am glad you took the time to share your thoughts on the very important matter of internet censorship, a matter of which I am personally fighting with every resource possible.
PAXIMUS
06-06-2012, 02:41 PM
BBM
I don't think anyone here is presuming that people here are watching the Jun Lin murder video with 'pleasure or amusement', although I still can't comprehend why any rational person would choose to view a snuff film and then openly discuss it frame by frame.
You've suggested being 'creative' in order to find the reason that people are choosing to watch the video. Part of my living is made by my creative thinking and I'm still failing to see how viewing the video, knowing full well what it depicts, can be excused by anyone other than LE and the Crown.
Several fine members have already listed many of the countless reasons and I do not wish to continue to beat a dead horse, my intent is NOT to try and argue this point to get everyone to agree with me, I do not care who agrees with me, my only purpose is to suggest there are other ways of looking at this issue beyond those which I feel are reactionary and emotional.
greenthumb
06-06-2012, 02:41 PM
RSBM:
No offense intended but your last paragraph went a bit too far off the deep end. They never said it was educational, the website owner did and that website is intended for adults not elementary school children.
Adults have the right to watch/read/listen to what they want a child should never be subjected to anything like this.
JMO
BBM
That is the problem with allowing it to be a on a website that is freely accessed - children certainly may be subjected to it. Not every child's internet use is monitored. Many folks here found it easily, so I have to believe that a child could, too. And IMO, that is wrong. All just MOO
pippirose
06-06-2012, 02:41 PM
Was just going to post that! lol...maybe something bad happened to him that year...he would have been 5...or maybe no meaning other than the songs themselves..
Just to clarify--my previous post was wrong. I had thought he went to live with his grandmother at age 5.
I found the original posting on a psychforum, the last one on the page, under "cutelittlenemo" (which I believe has already been stated that it was one of LM's aliases online).
He states that "My mother had me when she was 16, I am a male. I lived the majority of my childhood with my grandmother. My mother was always stubborn and she married my father and had me without telling her family. When I was 5 she unexpectedly came and took me away from my home with my grandmother. From that moment on my life was hell."
http://answers.psychcentral.com/Depression/i-hate-my-mother-and-i-dont-care-enough-to-change-it-/
I personally do not like the fact that history books show jewish people piled up atfter being killed in death camps but those pictures are an important part of our history and if there is one thing I am FOR it is the documentation of our lives and the things we do BOTH GOOD AND BAD for future generations to study and learn from. While this video is indeed disgusting and it challenges us in ways few things ever have it is important, for the sake of POSTERITY ALONE that we document it and make it available for future generations to study so as to prevent it from continuing to happen again
Respectfully snipped by me ...
I absolutely disagree. Teens and youth today are all about outdoing each other - coming up with the next extreme that outdoes the last one (just like reality TV). I see no historical value in memorializing a murderer like Eric Newman by ensuring that video of his murderous acts are preserved. I think everything he is, stands for and produces should be wiped from history in the same way that Russell William's history was wiped out. All that remains of Russell William's history is documentary regarding his murders ... none of his video is necessary. There is absolutely nothing similar between Eric Newman and the murder of 6 million Jewish people during WW2.
Case in point ... have you ever heard of Marcel Petiot? His actions were horrific ... but video of his actions are not needed to ensure that people never forget who he was.
It's D-Day today ...
HastingsChi
06-06-2012, 02:46 PM
he should be....he is a walking target in just about any prison....for so many reasons...
Given his known support of white supremacist propaganda, if he spoke German I'm sure he wouldn't have a problem connecting with like-minded individuals in the Berlin jail... Oh yeah, that's right, he doesn't speak German and he probably can't pull off his malarkey when he isn't hiding behind a keyboard... Poor thing, if he never hired that "crazy manager" in the first place, none of this would be happening to him...
prima.facie
06-06-2012, 02:49 PM
BBM
That is the problem with allowing it to be a on a website that is freely accessed - children certainly may be subjected to it. Not every child's internet use is monitored. Many folks here found it easily, so I have to believe that a child could, too. And IMO, that is wrong. All just MOO
again, we are talking about responsibility. if a child's internet is not monitored, that is on the parents. there is PLENTY of stuff out there that is not appropriate for children. just going to google images and you can find a crapload of it...is it appropriate for a child to stumble upon penthouse or any beastiality website or any other porn site? no. but they can easily do it. a kid types in XXX by pounding on a keyboard, nothing but porn will pop up.
have a teen and they come across a site that says..............ENTER YOUR YEAR OF BIRTH.....all a teen has to do is make up a year and wala they are in.
so what is the solution? ban everything that one does not agree with? ban children from the internet? ban irresponsible people from having children?
when im around my friends with kids i NEVER discipline their kids or tell her that i think giving her fat kid a can of soda and full bag of chips is BAD....that is on them...my moral belief that fat kids are a result of lazy abusive parents because they let their kids eat crap all day and sit in front of a TV is MY moral opinion and i have no say in how they raise their kids. eh...beating a dead horse......
again, i respect everyone's opinions and everyone is entitled to their beliefs. i just dont want anyone telling me what i can and cannot view, read, listen to, etc....
james62
06-06-2012, 02:50 PM
Poor Luka...he's frightened...his new identity? VICTIM>
http://news.nationalpost.com/2012/06/06/luka-rocco-magnotta-fearing-for-his-safety-in-berlin-prison-lawyer-reveals/?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter
Controversial opinion here.
Do I feel sorry for Magnotta? Yes.
Do I think he came across as friendly to his lawyer? Yes
Do I think he should be locked up forever?: Absolutely.
Here are the reasons why I do and do not feel sorry for him:
- He is now cut off from his internet world which was the only world he could really exist in, and is scared. The fact that he seemed scared during the flight as well as in Paris and Berlin would witness that. As would the fact that prison guards in Berlin have described him as 'meek'.
-He needs to be locked up forever. As much as I feel sorry for him (and I do) I feel so much more empathy for his victim, poor Justin. Justin by all accounts was looking for companionship and love, and this is what he stumbled across. Words fail me.
I hope people don't take this post the wrong way. Magnotta has to, and will be locked up for life. But this is such a complex case, the likes of wich we haven't seen for a very long time.
RSBM:
No offense intended but your last paragraph went a bit too far off the deep end. They never said it was educational, the website owner did and that website is intended for adults not elementary school children.
Adults have the right to watch/read/listen to what they want a child should never be subjected to anything like this.
JMO
The entire argument is off the deep end IMO.
I don't believe every adult does have the right to watch/ read or listen to whatever they want.
I'm sure half the medical students in Canada would love to watch Mrs. Jones have her double lung transplant but unless Mrs. Jones agrees to allow them to have that learning opportunity at her expense, they're ***** out of luck. Students who have a legitimate reason for watching and participating in her care, who have been vetted by the professionals assigned to her care, do get to participate and observe and patients are advised of this.
Wanting access to something and having a right to it are two very different things. I personally believe the victims rights outweigh ours.
jeanne
06-06-2012, 02:50 PM
Given his known support of white supremacist propaganda, if he spoke German I'm sure he wouldn't have a problem connecting with like-minded individuals in the Berlin jail... Oh yeah, that's right, he doesn't speak German and he probably can't pull off his malarkey when he isn't hiding behind a keyboard... Poor thing, if he never hired that "crazy manager" in the first place, none of this would be happening to him...
I imagine some of this is 'lawyer speak' for get him out of Germany QUICK so I don't have to respresent him!!!
Jezbel
06-06-2012, 02:51 PM
BBM
That is the problem with allowing it to be a on a website that is freely accessed - children certainly may be subjected to it. Not every child's internet use is monitored. Many folks here found it easily, so I have to believe that a child could, too. And IMO, that is wrong. All just MOO
I get what your saying GT and agree that children's internet use, but my comment was more in response as to how it would be remiss for the principle of the schools not to show the video to the children as people are stating it's educational.
Booth&Brennan
06-06-2012, 02:51 PM
Hi all, long time reader but first time poster. I didn't feel I had much to contribute until now.
Firstly, I just watched the 11:15 am Montreal press conference on and here are some points I jotted down. I am waiting to be added into the forum so these may have been posted by the time I am activated, excuse me if they are I am going to cut and paste from my notepad when I am activated. (its been more than 3 hours to get activated so I am sure these are up now but going to post anyway)
From the Press Conference:
-Packages in vancouver originated from montreal, different post office. the outside packaging (possibly labels?) was very similar
-They won't give the total number of body parts because the scene was so greusome but will say that the head is now still missing and that is the only one part they are looking for.
-A false special fx foot was found in montreal raising copycat fears, it was discovered it is a movie quality prop and is definitely a fake but very convincing
- People in montreal trying to raise money for Lin's family to help them out in montreal and have places to stay while there. The family will be meeting with police today.
- Confirmed that Magnotta spent time on american west coast and are currently trying to link him to vancouver
-There are notes in the packages both new and the original ones sent to ottawa, I do not believe this was mentioned previously.
-I believe they said the genatalia was on the scene and not removed. I can't be sure because a reporter not with the station i was watching asked the question so i couldn't hear their wording but the officer said "no we are not looking for that, that was found on the scene and was not removed" but it could have been anything.
-Police in no rush to bring LM back, paperwork is underway and montreal police are using the time to focus on the ongoing investigation
Secondly, I'm in Ontario area and not surpised to have a bit of a 6 degrees to the suspect. I was surfing facebook and found this convo under a post by a friend about the case. I have taken names out since they are friends of my friend and not me,
"Mr.X: He went to my elementary school and jr. high.
Mr. Y: You remember him being a weird person at all?
Mr.X: He came to my school in grade 5, but he had been home schooled up until then. He was really effeminate and quiet and got picked on a lot because he only hung out with girls. Apparently he didn't have the best situation at home (surprise, surprise), but I've only read about that stuff recently. I never really spoke too much too much while we were in school together."
So that seems to support a lot of what we knew about his school days at least (the homeschooling, the antisocial stuff, bullying).
neesaki
06-06-2012, 02:52 PM
Poor Luka...he's frightened...his new identity? VICTIM>
http://news.nationalpost.com/2012/06/06/luka-rocco-magnotta-fearing-for-his-safety-in-berlin-prison-lawyer-reveals/?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter
I just started reading about this case and am sick to my stomach and in my heart. This sick, evil, demon possessed, scum of the earth, poor excuse for a human being commits such inhuman and unthinkable horrific acts against others, and now he's fearing for his own safety, poor, poor thing. :boohoo:
I understand that but who are the people who get to make these decisions about what is morally right for the rest of us. Is there some group of people we can trust to make these decisions and know they will make the right ones each time. I think we right now we call them "congress" and by my math they get it WRONG 9 times out of 10.
The point is what is moral for you may not be moral for someone else and nobody has a right to tell others what is good or bad for them, people can make those decisions themselves. Read the book 1984 and see how you feel about having a Ministry of Morality making decisions for everyone about what they can watch, read, SEE, HEAR, taste, all of it decided by some group of people who we are just supposed to trust, why? JUST BECAUSE.
You also seem to assume the only reason to watch the video is PLEASURE OR AMUSEMENT but there are many, many other reasons for watching that video, be creative and you will realize that.
How would you feel about video of the murders of Leslie Mahaffy, Kristen French, Jessica Lloyd, or Cpl. Marie-France Comeau plastered all over the internet? It's sickening and it would be devastating for the family to have that video circulating so everyone could watch the torturous final hours of their loved ones. What happens when a 12 year old accidentally stumbles onto video of actual torture and murder? It is not censorship to keep video of murders off the internet ... in my opinion, it is common decency.
One thing I know for sure ... the murderers would like nothing better than to know that their videos of the torture and murder of innocent people are all over the internet.
not_my_kids
06-06-2012, 02:53 PM
I don't see the evil in his pictures post arrest. I don't see anything. I think without someone to mimic and an idol to imitate, Luka will turn out to be quite the blob. Not really any real personality of his own to be seen.
It cracks me up that his lawyer says he is nice and polite and looks nothing like a psychopath. There's a video she should watch..
I wonder what she thinks a psychopath looks like. i hope that no one is fooled or charmed by the act.
neesaki
06-06-2012, 02:55 PM
I don't see the evil in his pictures post arrest. I don't see anything. I think without someone to mimic and an idol to imitate, Luka will turn out to be quite the blob. Not really any real personality of his own to be seen.
It cracks me up that his lawyer says he is nice and polite and looks nothing like a psychopath. There's a video she should watch..
I wonder what she thinks a psychopath looks like. i hope that no one is fooled or charmed by the act.
Yeah, Ted Bundy was quite handsome and a real charmer.
livingstone
06-06-2012, 02:56 PM
Greetings,
Great work done here on WS. You are a great group of people.
I will post in three posts so as not to make a very long post.
If you are interested…..
***graphic ***
The perpetrator: In analyzing the perp’s psychology, actions, and his videos, (3 animal killing videos and 1 human body desecration video) an interesting pattern comes to light.
Pattern in the “kitten” videos: in all three cases of the documented kitten killings, there is no real physical contact between killer and victim at the time of actual death. Contact is limited to pre and post-mortem.
Most murderous sadists, or ritual killers (particularly those who do not kill with guns, but rather bare hands, knives, blunt instruments, etc.) get fulfillment from the intimate and close physical contact (sexual and/or non sexual) during the suffering of the live victim, as well as the close physical and personal contact with the live victim at the time of actual death.
In other words…..It takes one hearty/sadistic (for lack of better terms) person to physically inflict fatal wounds, with their hands (even by instrument) to a being who is still moving around and still has the breath of life.
Think of BTK, Gacy, or Dahmer. All were very personal and intimate killers who enjoyed the aforementioned.
Compare those crimes to this perp. A bit of a difference.
Next post: Kitten /Human Killings
jeanne
06-06-2012, 02:56 PM
Controversial opinion here.
Do I feel sorry for Magnotta? Yes.
Do I think he came across as friendly to his lawyer? Yes
Do I think he should be locked up forever?: Absolutely.
Here are the reasons why I do and do not feel sorry for him:
- He is now cut off from his internet world which was the only world he could really exist in, and is scared. The fact that he seemed scared during the flight as well as in Paris and Berlin would witness that. As would the fact that prison guards in Berlin have described him as 'meek'.
-He needs to be locked up forever. As much as I feel sorry for him (and I do) I feel so much more empathy for his victim, poor Justin. Justin by all accounts was looking for companionship and love, and this is what he stumbled across. Words fail me.
I hope people don't take this post the wrong way. Magnotta has to, and will be locked up for life. But this is such a complex case, the likes of wich we haven't seen for a very long time.
James, thank you for this. I too, feel a small amount of empathy for him. I as well came from a horrific start in life...and was fortunate to be removed and placed with a more caring family. Nevertheless, I have struggled all my life with abandonment issues, and pyschological scarring from "failure to thrive" conditions of the first year of my life. So, I can somewhat identify with the early Eric Newman. I had a support system growing up. It seems he did not, not a healthy one in any case. Earlier I mentioned that I feel he is am empty hole looking desperately to be filled up, and the path he took to find "himself" turned out to be a dark and evil road. He needs to be locked up forever. He needs to pay for his crime. I don't believe he can redeem himself ever. But, my heart cries for young Eric Newman, the boy everyone overlooked.
PAXIMUS
06-06-2012, 02:57 PM
Respectfully snipped by me ...
I absolutely disagree. Teens and youth today are all about outdoing each other - coming up with the next extreme that outdoes the last one (just like reality TV). I see no historical value in memorializing a murderer like Eric Newman by ensuring that video of his murderous acts are preserved. I think everything he is, stands for and produces should be wiped from history in the same way that Russell William's history was wiped out. All that remains of Russell William's history is documentary regarding his murders ... none of his video is necessary. There is absolutely nothing similar between Eric Newman and the murder of 6 million Jewish people during WW2.
Case in point ... have you ever heard of Marcel Petiot? His actions were horrific ... but video of his actions are not needed to ensure that people never forget who he was.
It's D-Day today ...
You can pick and choose all sorts of individual reasons why this or that should not be allowed, my concern here is the BIG PICTURE and the smaller issue of a few people being offended by something is a lot less important than the larger issue of freedom of expression and a free uncensored internet. I respect everyone's opinion but what I do have a hard time respecting is those who do not consider the LONG TERM CONSEQUENCES OF THE THINGS THEY ADVOCATE FOR AND SUPPORT. The IMMEDIATE gratification that may result in censoring something like this from the internet is not worth sacrificing the larger issue of a free and uncensored world wide web in my opinion. I realize that not everyone cares about the big picture and they are more concerned with the here and now but I just cant bring myself to support things in the here and now that will likely have devastating effects on the type of world my grandchildren will grow up in? Does that mean I want my grandchildren to grow up in a world where videos like this are OK, no, it does not, but I certainly DO NOT want them, even more so, to grow up in a world where a SELECT FEW get to decide everything for everyone else, and that is the world we are headed to full steam ahead and I will personally do everything I can to prevent that world or slow down the train that is headed for it.
for what its worth
06-06-2012, 02:58 PM
Given his known support of white supremacist propaganda, if he spoke German I'm sure he wouldn't have a problem connecting with like-minded individuals in the Berlin jail... Oh yeah, that's right, he doesn't speak German and he probably can't pull off his malarkey when he isn't hiding behind a keyboard... Poor thing, if he never hired that "crazy manager" in the first place, none of this would be happening to him...
He doesn't speak the language so likely can't chat with many people. He won't understand any television that may be available to him. His hideous crime was overshadowed by Berlin's own horrific dismemberment story so he's likely not all over the news. He has no way to lap up his infamy which is why he likely did all of this to begin with (IMO). He's surrounded by the hardest of criminals in a maximum security prison who would undoubtedly like to induct him in ways which he would be powerless to; he should be terrified.
Poor, poor Eric didn't think this one through very well.
AudreyRose
06-06-2012, 02:59 PM
Same or similar text
http://estrip.org/articles/read/lukamagnotta/49152/My-Letter-To-A-Moron.html
http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20090510140736AAeY1i9
More posts
http://estrip.org/articles/read/lukamagnotta/49154/Someone-Sent-Me-This...-So-Cute.html
http://verytags.com/family-relationships-marriage-divorce/43481/
Wow, I haven't seen any of this blog before. There's lots of rambling entries about how much he hates his family, how beautiful he is, how he's better looking than a prince...it goes on and on. Some of the comments on his entries are amusing.
KOUKLA75
06-06-2012, 02:59 PM
Hello all again!!! :seeya:
I'd like to re-post my post from thread #5 again cos I'm sure many ppl missed it since it was locked, I would like everyone's feedback, since Jun was not reported missing till May 29th, we know LE did not log into his account on the 28th of May, who did???:ohoh::ohoh: :ohoh: so I think this info is reallyyyyy strange..
Here goes:
Well I just stumbled on the above post, and decided based on his e-mail address ( Jun's) to see what can be found. I found some personal pics which I don't think should be added here.
But what was more disturbing is that I found a Quebec forum http://www.sinoquebec.com (Chinese language) which he was registered on (based on the help from Google Translate he was subleting or trying to share his apt) what is MORE disturbing is that the last login was MAY 28th at 3.48PM and his last post May 24th @ 8.55am!!!!!!!!
:what:
Here is what Google translated from the ad: (chinese) he had posted this ad numerous times since Feb 12
Thread: 2121 st-mathieu junior half, June and July, short rent every month 700
by ljustin
2121 st-mathieu junior half, short rent per month in June and July 700
The newly renovated, wood floors, bright and large windows, away from the guy-concordia metro station, very close to the swimming pool, sauna. Price: 950 $ now
I registered on the forum just so I can see his profile, and I took both print screens so I can post them here
Profile with last login May 28th:
http://s17.postimage.org/dkani2uhr/Fire_Shot_Screen_Capture_014_View_Profile_l.jpg
Last post on May 24th....8:55am
http://s15.postimage.org/mv5nh2edn/Fire_Shot_Screen_Capture_015_Search_Results.jpg
ALL THIS IS VERY STRANGE.
not_my_kids
06-06-2012, 02:59 PM
Yeah, Ted Bundy was quite handsome and a real charmer.
Oh believe me, I know. Wasn't part of the reason he was able to escape because people didn't see the psychopath in him and lock him down like they should have, even inside the courthouse?
I fear Luka doing the same thing, because I think if he gets loose, he'll try to take out as many people as he can just because he knows his internet addiction will get him caught again anyway.
Now that I think of it, if he tries to use Internet addiction as a defense I'll go completely insane. Is there any way that could fly in Canadian court, or would they shut that down right away?
livingstone
06-06-2012, 02:59 PM
***graphic ***
Re: Kitten killings- Notice there is always a barrier between perp and victim. With the drowning….the cat is placed on a stick. In the python killing, the python does the actual killing. Then, we have the suffocation. As is the case with the previous deaths, there is a barrier (a plastic bag) between the perp and the victim. No physical contact between killer and victim at time of death.
This is a most telling observation. It displays a certain cowardice but that given time, maybe could have been tamed and the barrier broken through.
The human killing: We know the actual act was not made available to the general public. We do not know if it exists. It seems out of sorts that this is the case, particularly when this individual tends to show that portion and because this showcase to the public nourishes the deepest depths of himself by him feeding on the visceral reactions of his audience both real and imagined.
Noteworthy also, is that in observation of the screen shot of the decapitated head, the blood pattern/spill indicates that this action was most likely taken post mortem. If this action was taken pre-mortem the pattern would look quite different. That said, I was not on the scene investigating and can only make statements based on the video evidence.
A few possibilities …….
1. Perp was unable to carry out physically murderous actions due to either unintended or purposeful overdose of his victim. If purposeful OD, (because could not stomach the cutting of live victim) this would create the said “barrier” between perp and victim at time of death, as has been his pattern thus far. If unintended OD, this would frustrate the perp greatly and destroy the climax of the killing.
2. Perp suffocated victim with a pillow. (barrier)
3. Perp wants to edit that portion for future defense purposes.
I believe that this is the perps first human killing. Perhaps, an experimental action that given time would have escalated. He was clumsy, gleeful, and childlike in his frenzied eagerness to desecrate this person’s body, doing things that had no real value to him (the beer bottle, the dog, the humping, the hand stuff, etc.) other than to display this to an audience. Superfluous, IMO.
He can handle the post mortem activity because it is easier to disassociate from the being. For example, a person would have a different reaction to an autopsy versus being on the scene of a dying human being who is still alive. Very different animals.
On line persona (barrier between perp and public)
With the Kittens (barrier between perp and victim)
Meeting victim on internet (barrier between perp and victim)
Editing of killing (barrier between perp, perp’s act and public)
Next: the Victim
PAXIMUS, I'm not sure which country you're in, but Canada has very reasonable laws regarding the rights of individuals. Canada does not have anything similar to the US Patriot Act. Canadians have many rights, but it is not a right to make a film of the torture, murder, dismemberent of anyone and then publish it for an international audience. It is not censorship to ensure that this does not happen.
jeanne
06-06-2012, 03:02 PM
Hello all again!!! :seeya:
I'd like to re-post my post from thread #5 again cos I'm sure many ppl missed it since it was locked, I would like everyone's feedback, since Jun was not reported missing till May 29th, we know LE did not log into his account on the 28th of May, who did???:ohoh::ohoh: :ohoh: so I think this info is reallyyyyy strange..
Here goes:
Well I just stumbled on the above post, and decided based on his e-mail address ( Jun's) to see what can be found. I found some personal pics which I don't think should be added here.
But what was more disturbing is that I found a Quebec forum http://www.sinoquebec.com (Chinese language) which he was registered on (based on the help from Google Translate he was subleting or trying to share his apt) what is MORE disturbing is that the last login was MAY 28th at 3.48PM and his last post May 24th @ 8.55am!!!!!!!!
:what:
Here is what Google translated from the ad: (chinese) he had posted this ad numerous times since Feb 12
Thread: 2121 st-mathieu junior half, June and July, short rent every month 700
by ljustin
2121 st-mathieu junior half, short rent per month in June and July 700
The newly renovated, wood floors, bright and large windows, away from the guy-concordia metro station, very close to the swimming pool, sauna. Price: 950 $ now
I registered on the forum just so I can see his profile, and I took both print screens so I can post them here
Profile with last login May 28th:
http://s17.postimage.org/dkani2uhr/Fire_Shot_Screen_Capture_014_View_Profile_l.jpg
Last post on May 24th....8:55am
http://s15.postimage.org/mv5nh2edn/Fire_Shot_Screen_Capture_015_Search_Results.jpg
ALL THIS IS VERY STRANGE.
I seem to remember in early news reports that it was said his friends checked his email accounts and whatnot for news of him. I wouldn't make too much of this.
livingstone
06-06-2012, 03:03 PM
Re: Mr. Lin- First, I am sorry when any human loses their life. Human life has value. There is no such thing as “acceptable” murder.
In this case we see an individual, (Mr. Lin) for whatever reason, and like hundreds of thousands of others, sought out sexual trysts on the internet. (his right and privilege as an adult) I am certain that he met the perp on the web. In such cases where a person chooses to meet up with a stranger, it is a possibility they may meet a disturbed person who could kill them. The chances are slim, but it has happened before, as you all know.
This does not mean the victim is to be blamed. However, it does mean that when this man (Mr. Lin) agreed to meet up with the perp, he took that risk.
It must be admitted that I do have different “levels” of sympathy…For right or wrong. When I was exposed to crime, I did not react the same when I saw a murder, of say a gang member, who was participating in activities that had great risk, as I did seeing a crime with a child or adult who was I will call a “wholly innocent” human being.
That said, with the killing of what I will call a “wholly innocent” I sympathize differently.
I can understand those who mentioned they had a stronger emotional reaction to the kittens. I agree with those on this board who said that this is perfectly normal. For reasons already stated by others, and I believe here, there is nothing wrong with this. And, if there are those who react stronger to the human killing rather than the kittens….. that’s fine too. These are personal matters that we must reckon on our own. Same goes for viewing the video/s.
That concludes my analysis. I would be curious and interested as to what others may care to add. If not, it was great to follow your threads as I have from the beginning.
Now on a more personal note:
There are some posters who I especially enjoy reading.
“It puts the lotion in the basket” Very good Gypsy Road. I thought so too. Exactly. Ha Ha…….
revampz , have enjoyed your levelheaded comments.
And others too.
Thank you.
He doesn't speak the language so likely can't chat with many people. He won't understand any television that may be available to him. His hideous crime was overshadowed by Berlin's own horrific dismemberment story so he's likely not all over the news. He has no way to lap up his infamy which is why he likely did all of this to begin with (IMO). He's surrounded by the hardest of criminals in a maximum security prison who would undoubtedly like to induct him in ways which he would be powerless to; he should be terrified.
Poor, poor Eric didn't think this one through very well.
Quite true ... they have their own beheading of a woman by her husband while her children may have watched ... all because she asked him to move out after discovering that he was seeing another woman.
but do you really want.........the government........to define what is moral?
because if you do, being overweight will soon be legally a crime.....
viewing any type of pornography may soon be legally a crime.....
what if they demand that is is moral that you attend church at least once a week? or that is inmoral to do so.
i just dont understand people wanting the government to put us all on puppet strings or turn us into "yessir" robots....
shouldnt it be up to YOU an individual as to what is moral for YOU?
because like i said on my other post...i most certainly do not want ANY MORE people telling me HOW to live my life and what i am allowed to eat, drink, view, read and listen to.
while i dont indulge in gore and all that.....that is MY choice.
BANNING things NEVER EVER EVER EVER EVER works. it didnt work back in the days of prohibition....it doesnt work now. look at the drugs that are ILLEGAL and yet it does not stop people from using them and commiting crimes while strung out on them. when we take away personal freedoms, people will rebel and find other ways of obtaining what is morally wrong to individuals.
less government....more personal responsbility.
/rant. lol with that, I respect your opinion on it all :)
ITA however in a democracy we are the government we elect and we have the power to rewrite the social norms we want our democracy to reflect. We aren't living under a dictatorship or some communism regime.
scarlett_hues
06-06-2012, 03:05 PM
Oh believe me, I know. Wasn't part of the reason he was able to escape because people didn't see the psychopath in him and lock him down like they should have, even inside the courthouse?
I fear Luka doing the same thing, because I think if he gets loose, he'll try to take out as many people as he can just because he knows his internet addiction will get him caught again anyway.
Now that I think of it, if he tries to use Internet addiction as a defense I'll go completely insane. Is there any way that could fly in Canadian court, or would they shut that down right away?
Luka.. charming? I don't think you have to worry about him charming his way to freedom. He is scary looking.. his voice, eyes & manner of speaking are disturbing.
You could see the "charm" in pictures of Bundy smiling and such.. he looks like the boy next door. THIS freak.. he gives me chills... especially his eyes that flicker between evil & dead. :couch:
~n/t~
06-06-2012, 03:05 PM
Cops in Quebec town to search for ties between Magnotta and unsolved 2011 murder
http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/canada/gatineau-police-to-search-for-ties-between-magnotta-and-unsolved-2011-murder-157299545.html
I don't think there is a connection but who knows. The alleged suspect was fluent in french which I don't believe LRM is.
Here is the sketch of the suspect.
http://storage.canoe.ca/v1/dynamic_resize/sws_path/suns-prod-images/1297204848876_ORIGINAL.jpg/?quality=75&size=297
KOUKLA75
06-06-2012, 03:05 PM
I seem to remember in early news reports that it was said his friends checked his email accounts and whatnot for news of him. I wouldn't make too much of this.
Well, we know he was online (internet) on the 24th @8:55am now
2goldfish
06-06-2012, 03:07 PM
Makes total sense but in a perfect world the person who posted it online would have had enough empathy not to post it or the grace to comply with her grieving relatives request to remove it. We need to fight for a world where empathy thrives, not the rights of those who possess none but want to satisfy their morbid curiosity.
What if that was me on that video is what people should be asking. If you wouldn't want to be internet fodder for the masses then you have to be the change you want to see in the world and not exploit the victim here who has no voice. Do unto others as you would have them do onto you. It's humanity 101 really IMO.
BBM with all due respect for your opnion, the person that posted that video to begin with is the same person who did the things IN the video, which I am with you fully that in a perfect world, these things would not happen.
it's on the web - forever. magnotta KNEW that and this is why he posted it.
I havent watched it - I wont watch it - I accept that people will - good ones like some as WS, not so good ones like people like magnotta.
I fully agree it should have never been online ....if it was me murdered and filmed I would be absolutely devastated to know that the only glimpse most of the world had of me would be in such a way and linked visually for eternity to my murderer - my opinion goes for anyone I know INCLUDING THE VICTIM JUN LING. it's sick how unfair it is.
but the argument as I see it in this thread ...does the gov't get to censor the web? they should not and in most cases they CAN NOT. on a canadian or US server? sure. on a chinese one with a chinese national as the victim? possibly ....in any other country's? not bloody likely.
pippirose
06-06-2012, 03:09 PM
PAXIMUS, I'm not sure which country you're in, but Canada has very reasonable laws regarding the rights of individuals. Canada does not have anything similar to the US Patriot Act. Canadians have many rights, but it is not a right to make a film of the torture, murder, dismemberent of anyone and then publish it for an international audience. It is not censorship to ensure that this does not happen.
I agree.
Just my 2 cents:
Not even talking about the morality issue or anything else, what about just the legal issue? It is the film of a crime. For that reason alone, I would think it should be illegal for any sites to host it.
Same with videos that have "real" rape shown.
And obviously, child pornography and violence.
jeanne
06-06-2012, 03:09 PM
Well, we know he was online (internet) on the 24th @8:55am now
There's nothing important about that detail. We know Lin Jun was alive until at least 9pm on the 24th when he left a text message for a friend.
Dutchie43
06-06-2012, 03:10 PM
Hi everybody,
I have been reading this thread since yesterday and it is horrible what LM has done. He's a sick man....all these different names he uses on the internet. All these pictures he posted of himself. These stories he's made up.....how many personalities does he have???
I have found some pictures of him, probably you have seen them already, but I shivered when I saw them....like he was already planning this thing months ago. Especially the last photo is weird.....
http://www.abproject.org/gallery3/index.php/VBKK/Luka-s-Photobucket-Accounts/wonderfulme34
PS: sorry for my poor writing, I am dutch so I probably have made some mistakes in my text.
KOUKLA75
06-06-2012, 03:11 PM
There's nothing important about that detail. We know Lin Jun was alive until at least 9pm on the 24th when he left a text message for a friend.
Oh well, I think it's important :)
Jezbel
06-06-2012, 03:11 PM
The entire argument is off the deep end IMO.
I don't believe every adult does have the right to watch/ read or listen to whatever they want.
I'm sure half the medical students in Canada would love to watch Mrs. Jones have her double lung transplant but unless Mrs. Jones agrees to allow them to have that learning opportunity at her expense, they're ***** out of luck. Students who have a legitimate reason for watching and participating in her care, who have been vetted by the professionals assigned to her care, do get to participate and observe and patients are advised of this.
Wanting access to something and having a right to it are two very different things. I personally believe the victims rights outweigh ours.
The difference is the video was out and available for people to view, unlike the the double lung transplant of Mrs Jones.
Yes wanting something and having the right are two different things, but like I stated, people who wanted to watch the video could as it was freely available.
I am not saying our rights out weight the victims, I never said anything regarding that at all. I feel terrible for his family and hop that none of them has bared witness to it.
That being said there are many many more videos like this out there, some could be a lot worse and depicting the actual death too, and really there will never be enough resources to take the billions posted online off and there will be more sick people that do similar things as LM did and post online too. Stuff like this will always be out there.
SmoothOperator
06-06-2012, 03:12 PM
**WARNING my response to Wondergirl's post below may be way too soap box-ish for some.. please don't hesitate to scroll on past if need be**
Originally Posted by Wondergirl
<respectfully snipped by moì>
If you were asked by a friend to come over an watch a real snuff film tonight, would you?
There are some people who would never, ever in a million years deliberately go watch a snuff and dismemberment film, but because of many different influences and factors, not the least of which is because it was so readily available on the internet, hundreds of thousands of people watched that real life snuff and dismemberment video of Jun Lin.
That to me is an issue worth discussing because we all know those types of videos are out there. Not choosing to watch them, is not "sticking my head in the sand". I am hopeful that some poor soul who has to track these monsters down, catches them because of repurcussion of sites like these.
To blatantly display the video that is known to be a true, real life murder and dismemberment, crosses the boundaries, and to deliberately leave it on is a crime, IMO.
You pose a very good, relevant, thought provoking question.. A question that IMO could spark a very important and rather in depth conversation about the varying different individuals that we are combined with what technology has laid in our laps, that is always at our convenience only mere finger "taps" away.. And what such easy access along with open, full media coverage of some of this universe's most evil and despicable subjects and issues(that not so long ago were even more than taboo.. They were just downright WRONG and weren't to be openly displayed).. And certainly not openly displayed and documented on international prime time news coverage.. IMO the combination of these subjects and gaping, wide open up close&personal in full *color these particular subjects that are of the purest of evil are not only documented in recording, but then blasted at peak volume with megaphones and plastered worldwide in the clearest and latest gazillion.5 mega pixel clarity FOR ANY/ALL TO SEE.. To SEE FOREVER.. FOR ETERNITY.. Not just here today and gone tomorrow.. BUT FOREVER IN LIVING COLOR OF THE BEST CLARITY EACH DAYS TECHNOLOGY CONTINUES TO IMPROVE AND HAVE AT OUR DISPOSAL..
The evil is out there in such a vivid and raw view that IMO(and in MOO!) it can ONLY bring about, further encourage, and continue its path of destroying the good that's left here in this universe.. And I haven't a doubt that is exactly what this combination will in fact do, will in fact ravage, will in fact ruin, will in fact steal the very souls of innocence from our precious children.. IMO that is the path of such wide, open gaping "coverage" and "documentation" of the evil that daily walks among us WILL CONTINUE TO DO!!! We are being desensitized by the millisecond..
And let me be very clear here in I am not making these statements of judging anyone's view, and certainly no individual.. Because I am one who chose to press play on that wide, open gaping REAL LIFE EVIL DISPLAYED RIGHT BEFORE MY VERY EYES!!.. I'm one of those that some are of the opinion that must be "sick" for choosing to press play on what I full well knew was going to be evil personified and in the flesh to watch with my very own eyes, with my very own soul bear witness to what is IMO pure evil that has made its way into you and I's home.. Our very own living rooms or bedrooms..
IMO this combination is spreading more rapidly than any drought riddled wildfire burning through and across the earth at lightning fast speeds.. These few combinations that MOST alone, and by themselves are for ALL INTENTS AND PURPOSES positive entities that our intelligence and hard work have allowed us to bring forth in technology for ALL "POSITIVE" INTENTS AND PURPOSES.. Created by individuals with nothing but the best of intentions of bettering our lives, serving to better protect the good from the "bad".. The *24/7/365 FULL MEDIA COVERAGE was not intended to bring us harm, nor detriment, but rather to enable us to better protect ourselves from the storms of mother nature, or the RSO that's newly moved into your child's community.. Same goes for the leaps and bounds made in forward progression of interlinking OUR ENTIRE GLOBE AND UNIVERSE VIA THE WORLD WIDE WEB.. For all "positive" intents and purposes in an infinite amount of differing ways..
But yet you add in the evil that any who are not totally and completely blind know walks among us.. And everything good somehow seems to spin a millimeter at a time in the opposite direction, in such small and tiny increments that we in and about our daily lives do not even remotely begin to notice or even be the least bit suspicious of.. Yet it's continually, ever growing, millimeter by millimeter taking and spinning into a completely opposite direction.. Into each of these different areas that our intelligence and hard work have diligently worked to provide as positive technologies to "benefit" us ... They are within the blink of our eyes opening up gaping, wide open views of the evil that has crept into that which is "good".. And well.. Once there we, the very people who have created and worked hard for the good of mankind begin to be the very ones that inadvertently begin to not only allow the evil to continue to creep in, but even more destructively we begin to actually inadvertently "protect" the right for the evil to be here and literally are responsible for encouraging and protecting its growth and continued wide spread path it's suddenly set as its permanent course.
I get it!! I very much get exactly what Wondergirl and many others are posting about in their great concern in seeing happen *to the world we live in.. And at the very same time I get just how damn easy it is to without any ill intention whatsoever have IMO in some ways allowed the evil to further become open, widespread, and our individual right to do so if we so should choose.. Just as I blatantly with full knowledge chose to press play on that 10+ minute window allowing me to personally bear witness to evil in its purest form savagely and brutally slaughter a fellow human being and for that evil to desecrate, dehumanize, and inflict, incite, and enjoy every last second of having NOT only done this to innocent, Jun Lin.. *IMO this evil that I witnessed, his greatest and most fulfilling intent and purpose was for you and me and her.. And her.. And him.. And the 10 down the road.. And the couple thousand in the neighboring town.. And the hundreds of thousands in the metropolitan cities.. States.. And. Countries..
"IT'S" GREATEST INTENT AND MOTIVE WAS FOR EACH OF US AS INDIVIDUALS AND ALL OF US *MILLIONS AS A WHOLE TO HAVE FIRST HAND BEARED WITNESS, UP CLOSE AND PERSONAL TO HIS EVIL FOREVER DOCUMENTED ON THAT 10+ MINUTES OF FOOTAGE!!!.. Forever now engrained in our hearts, minds, and souls..
Without a doubt I get exactly what you are saying Wondergirl and while I am for each to have their rights.. And to each their own.. But how far does that go?? How deep does that continue to apply?? Because IMO that's where the line blurs and the good intentions are unintentionally blurred into the negative that absolutely eventually leads to literally protecting that which is evil.. IMO its exactly what in a very real sense is happening in situations such as this..
In the end this is nothing more than strictly my own opinion that sadly formed after unwisely choosing to press play.. That very simple.. Yet in reality that VERY COMPLEX "tiny" issue..
Sorry for the soap box but as I said I absolutely "get" both sides of the issue here and in truly looking at what these doors that we are opening are leading to.. Well.. IMO its definitely worth discussing as well as individuals thinking twice about and taking a closer look at what "IT" really is..
(again my apologies for the long soap box.. Please those who are mildly irritated to strongly irritated by my sometimes long, droning posts.. Please don't hesitate to just scroll on past when ya see my username or pop me onto the Ignore List.. Lol.. Sorry for my long winded nature:blushing: )
prima.facie
06-06-2012, 03:13 PM
I don't see the evil in his pictures post arrest. I don't see anything. I think without someone to mimic and an idol to imitate, Luka will turn out to be quite the blob. Not really any real personality of his own to be seen.
It cracks me up that his lawyer says he is nice and polite and looks nothing like a psychopath. There's a video she should watch..
I wonder what she thinks a psychopath looks like. i hope that no one is fooled or charmed by the act.
that is the begninng of her defending him....
a good defense lawyer is going to make sure the jury sees him as a nice & polite boy....no way someone like him could do these things....
and so on...
Fl Breeze
06-06-2012, 03:13 PM
This case has stirred strong emotions.
I believe that no government has the right to interfer with ones private life nor how they live it.
But, if how I live my life infringes on the rights of others then society has to create laws to prevent this.
For example: If I want to murder someone who's to say it is wrong? It is wrong because I have taken someone's right to life away.
There has to be certain restrictions on individual rights for the society as a whole to function.
Some individual freedoms have to be compromised to protect the rights that all people are entitled to.
I believe that a victim's right to privacy is such a right that should be protected.
If a rape is recorded by the assailant and put on the web, does my right to watch it trump the victim's right to have it taken down?
Does the family of a victim of violent crime have the right of privacy to not have that crime shown?
I don't think it is a question of morals or censorship but the balancing of rights.
Just because the internet makes things easy to see doesn't make viewing them my right.
kevmoley
06-06-2012, 03:14 PM
Cops in Quebec town to search for ties between Magnotta and unsolved 2011 murder
http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/canada/gatineau-police-to-search-for-ties-between-magnotta-and-unsolved-2011-murder-157299545.html
I don't think there is a connection but who knows. The alleged suspect was fluent in french which I don't believe LRM is.
Here is the sketch of the suspect.
http://storage.canoe.ca/v1/dynamic_resize/sws_path/suns-prod-images/1297204848876_ORIGINAL.jpg/?quality=75&size=297
Didn't they say this guy was over 200lbs too? What is ML? 90lbs wet .. I think these are two different cases
You can pick and choose all sorts of individual reasons why this or that should not be allowed, my concern here is the BIG PICTURE and the smaller issue of a few people being offended by something is a lot less important than the larger issue of freedom of expression and a free uncensored internet. I respect everyone's opinion but what I do have a hard time respecting is those who do not consider the LONG TERM CONSEQUENCES OF THE THINGS THEY ADVOCATE FOR AND SUPPORT. The IMMEDIATE gratification that may result in censoring something like this from the internet is not worth sacrificing the larger issue of a free and uncensored world wide web in my opinion. I realize that not everyone cares about the big picture and they are more concerned with the here and now but I just cant bring myself to support things in the here and now that will likely have devastating effects on the type of world my grandchildren will grow up in? Does that mean I want my grandchildren to grow up in a world where videos like this are OK, no, it does not, but I certainly DO NOT want them, even more so, to grow up in a world where a SELECT FEW get to decide everything for everyone else, and that is the world we are headed to full steam ahead and I will personally do everything I can to prevent that world or slow down the train that is headed for it.
The big picture is that Canadians will not tolerate the publication of videos made by someone that is torturing and murdering someone. In the past, videos of that nature have been destroyed and they will continue to be destroyed. There is no value in preserving or memorializing the sickness inside the minds of violent criminals.
"Danson successfully obtained a court order following the Bernardo and Homolka proceedings to have the videotapes depicting the sexual assault and torture of their victims destroyed."
http://www.cbc.ca/news/pointofview/2010/10/col-russell-williams-should-the-videos-and-photos-be-destroyed.html
"I know with the Frenches and Mahaffys the only way they could guarantee their daughters would never be violated again was to destroy the videotapes."
Read more: http://www.ctv.ca/CTVNews/W5Archive/20101022/williams-lawyer-101022/#ixzz1x2exd0Nc
"Burgess told a packed courtroom that all evidence collected in the arrest and conviction of former CFB Trenton base commander Russell Williams should be destroyed or forfeited, a request Justice Robert Scott also agreed to."
http://www.trentonian.ca/ArticleDisplay.aspx?e=2810464
PAXIMUS
06-06-2012, 03:15 PM
BBM
That is the problem with allowing it to be a on a website that is freely accessed - children certainly may be subjected to it. Not every child's internet use is monitored. Many folks here found it easily, so I have to believe that a child could, too. And IMO, that is wrong. All just MOO
That is taking one issue and confusing it with another. The issue you present is one of bad parenting and not an issue that has anything to do with censoring the internet. If parents cant prevent their children from seeing things they should not see no amount of internet censorship or any kind of censorship for that matter is going to fix that. Kids were seeing things they should not see long before there was an internet and they will continue to see things long after. That is an issue for parents to address and to suggest that we should punish everyone else for their laziness and inability to properly supervise their children is terribly short-sighted and small-minded. And I am not calling YOU such, just the IDEA. I do not attack people but I will attack certain ideas.
That is taking one issue and confusing it with another. The issue you present is one of bad parenting and not an issue that has anything to do with censoring the internet. If parents cant prevent their children from seeing things they should not see no amount of internet censorship or any kind of censorship for that matter is going to fix that. Kids were seeing things they should not see long before there was an internet and they will continue to see things long after. That is an issue for parents to address and to suggest that we should punish everyone else for their laziness and inability to properly supervise their children is terribly short-sighted and small-minded. And I am not calling YOU such, just the IDEA. I do not attack people but I will attack certain ideas.
Allowing a child to use a computer is not bad parenting as it's an educational tool that they require. Allowing a child to use youtube is not bad parenting ... that's how they access lots of music.
The bottom line is that Canadians will not tolerate anything similar to the Patriot Act and they will not tolerate the publication of video of the torture and murder of innocent victims. It's not censorship, it's about protecting our rights. We have a right to use youtube and the internet and not fear that we will stumble onto horrific footage that re-victimes the victims and perpetuates the sickness of the criminal.
PAXIMUS
06-06-2012, 03:24 PM
The big picture is that Canadians will not tolerate the publication of videos made by someone that is torturing and murdering someone. In the past, videos of that nature have been destroyed and they will continue to be destroyed. There is no value in preserving or memorializing the sickness inside the minds of violent criminals.
"Danson successfully obtained a court order following the Bernardo and Homolka proceedings to have the videotapes depicting the sexual assault and torture of their victims destroyed."
http://www.cbc.ca/news/pointofview/2010/10/col-russell-williams-should-the-videos-and-photos-be-destroyed.html
"I know with the Frenches and Mahaffys the only way they could guarantee their daughters would never be violated again was to destroy the videotapes."
Read more: http://www.ctv.ca/CTVNews/W5Archive/20101022/williams-lawyer-101022/#ixzz1x2exd0Nc
"Burgess told a packed courtroom that all evidence collected in the arrest and conviction of former CFB Trenton base commander Russell Williams should be destroyed or forfeited, a request Justice Robert Scott also agreed to."
http://www.trentonian.ca/ArticleDisplay.aspx?e=2810464
I dont believe ALL Canadians support that, in fact there are many fine Canadians right here in this thread who have said otherwise. So the big picture is not that Canadians wont tolerate it but rather that certain Canadians, typically the ones who are intolerant of just about anything that they dont like or agree with including homosexuality, a woman's right to choose and other controversial issues, do not tolerate it. And that is really no surprise as they are usually the same people who are trying to tell everyone else how they should live, what they should like and what they should be allowed to do in the privacy of their bedrooms. Fortunately for them, there is the rest of us, who work tirelessly to fight for the right for people to believe whatever they want and to express those beliefs so that even if we dont agree with intolerance we fight for them to have the right to be intolerant anyway.
PAXIMUS
06-06-2012, 03:26 PM
Allowing a child to use a computer is not bad parenting as it's an educational tool that they require. Allowing a child to use youtube is not bad parenting ... that's how they access lots of music.
The bottom line is that Canadians will not tolerate anything similar to the Patriot Act and they will not tolerate the publication of video of the torture and murder of innocent victims. It's not censorship, it's about protecting our rights. We have a right to use youtube and the internet and not fear that we will stumble onto horrific footage that re-victimes the victims and perpetuates the sickness of the criminal.
Where did I say allowing them to use any of that is bad parenting, I simply suggested allowing them to use it UNSUPERVISED could be a problem since a poster here was trying to argue that certain things should be censored because kids could have access to it. The fix for that problem is not to censor the internet but to supervise the kids and if you choose not to then you really cant argue that what they may see on the net could hurt them, to do so, would in fact be to admit, you are a bad parent and instead of doing your duty to protect your kids you want the government to do that for you.
Dushi
06-06-2012, 03:27 PM
I dont believe ALL Canadians support that, in fact there are many fine Canadians right here in this thread who have said otherwise. So the big picture is not that Canadians wont tolerate it but rather that certain Canadians, typically the ones who are intolerant of just about anything that they dont like or agree with including homosexuality, a woman's right to choose and other controversial issues, do not tolerate it. And that is really no surprise as they are usually the same people who are trying to tell everyone else how they should live, what they should like and what they should be allowed to do in the privacy of their bedrooms. Fortunately for them, there is the rest of us, who work tirelessly to fight for the right for people to believe whatever they want and to express those beliefs so that even if we dont agree with intolerance we fight for them to have the right to be intolerant anyway.
Where do the rights of the victim and his family come into this?
I am certainly not going to debate you about womens rights etc etc
I just want to know how you feel about victims rights
PAXIMUS
06-06-2012, 03:31 PM
Allowing a child to use a computer is not bad parenting as it's an educational tool that they require. Allowing a child to use youtube is not bad parenting ... that's how they access lots of music.
The bottom line is that Canadians will not tolerate anything similar to the Patriot Act and they will not tolerate the publication of video of the torture and murder of innocent victims. It's not censorship, it's about protecting our rights. We have a right to use youtube and the internet and not fear that we will stumble onto horrific footage that re-victimes the victims and perpetuates the sickness of the criminal.
I understand your point but you have no such right, nowhere in any law book or statute in any nation I am aware of, is there such a right. You know when you go on the internet that there are bad things on there and you use it anyway, to suggest you have a RIGHT to not expect that is really absurd. Youre smarter than that, no such right exists, people use the word RIGHT a little too loosely, rights are in things like the bill of rights and constitutions and nowhere is such a right given or implied.
You are suggesting by saying that that you also have a right to go out in public and not see bad things, which is just..absurd my friend. There is no such right anywhere granted to any human being.
~n/t~
06-06-2012, 03:32 PM
CBC News Alerts @CBCAlerts
Family of murder victim Jun Lin meets with Montreal police .Police: family has gone through 'horrible episode.'
So sad. My heart breaks for the family. :cry:
bluelena69
06-06-2012, 03:39 PM
This is my first reply here, but I think I shall enjoy this site. I was a research librarian for 10 years before I was reborn into my present career as a UX designer.
Anyhow, I can empathize with the sentiment that this story of LM carries some degree of tragedy, not only for the victim, but also the perpetrator. Strangely, I don't think it's odd to feel this way.
I don't believe that humans are born evil or with the ability to commit acts such as those this freak has committed. Learned behavior, an intense desire to fill a void in one's life or simple erosion of empathy over the course of one's life leads to this. And it is quite sad that anyone brought into this world is forced to deal with this. Sadly, it is quite common but fortunately, an overwhelming majority of people are equipped with sufficient coping mechanisms. LM was not.
I will also add that I disagree completely with the notion that we cannot ban things, as "adults have the inherent right to choose what they want to view..." Why do I disagree? Because we share this world with innocent people (children) and people who are not properly equipped to process what they manage to see (sick people). Thus, a hallmark of a civil and just society is sacrifice for the common good. We pay taxes so that we can have common services and that is an acceptable sacrifice. We should have limitations on what is freely available as viewing materials in order to protect society and our children. It too is an acceptable sacrifice. No single person's individual right to watch whatever they want is as valuable as the innocence of a child.
I dont believe ALL Canadians support that, in fact there are many fine Canadians right here in this thread who have said otherwise. So the big picture is not that Canadians wont tolerate it but rather that certain Canadians, typically the ones who are intolerant of just about anything that they dont like or agree with including homosexuality, a woman's right to choose and other controversial issues, do not tolerate it. And that is really no surprise as they are usually the same people who are trying to tell everyone else how they should live, what they should like and what they should be allowed to do in the privacy of their bedrooms. Fortunately for them, there is the rest of us, who work tirelessly to fight for the right for people to believe whatever they want and to express those beliefs so that even if we dont agree with intolerance we fight for them to have the right to be intolerant anyway.
I'm not convinced that many a Canadian would agree that the videos of the torture and murder of Leslie Mahaffy, Kristen French, Jessica Lloyd, or Cpl. Marie-France Comeau should be posted on the internet. In fact, there was no opposition to have those videos destroyed when the application was presented in Court. These is nothing to be gained by making the video of the torture and murder of anyone available to everyone except that it will make the murderers very happy.
It is not true that intolerant people are the only people that do not want the videos produced by Russell Williams and Paul Bernardo posted on the internet.
Jujercu
06-06-2012, 03:40 PM
Re: Mr. Lin- First, I am sorry when any human loses their life. Human life has value. There is no such thing as “acceptable” murder.
In this case we see an individual, (Mr. Lin) for whatever reason, and like hundreds of thousands of others, sought out sexual trysts on the internet. (his right and privilege as an adult) I am certain that he met the perp on the web. In such cases where a person chooses to meet up with a stranger, it is a possibility they may meet a disturbed person who could kill them. The chances are slim, but it has happened before, as you all know.
This does not mean the victim is to be blamed. However, it does mean that when this man (Mr. Lin) agreed to meet up with the perp, he took that risk.
It must be admitted that I do have different “levels” of sympathy…For right or wrong. When I was exposed to crime, I did not react the same when I saw a murder, of say a gang member, who was participating in activities that had great risk, as I did seeing a crime with a child or adult who was I will call a “wholly innocent” human being.
That said, with the killing of what I will call a “wholly innocent” I sympathize differently.
I can understand those who mentioned they had a stronger emotional reaction to the kittens. I agree with those on this board who said that this is perfectly normal. For reasons already stated by others, and I believe here, there is nothing wrong with this. And, if there are those who react stronger to the human killing rather than the kittens….. that’s fine too. These are personal matters that we must reckon on our own. Same goes for viewing the video/s.
That concludes my analysis. I would be curious and interested as to what others may care to add. If not, it was great to follow your threads as I have from the beginning.
Now on a more personal note:
There are some posters who I especially enjoy reading.
“It puts the lotion in the basket” Very good Gypsy Road. I thought so too. Exactly. Ha Ha…….
revampz , have enjoyed your levelheaded comments.
And others too.
Thank you.
Well said. :)
elizabethie
06-06-2012, 03:46 PM
Karla Homolka was accused of drugging her own sister, Tammy, and performing "acts" on her.... Interesting that either LRM or others are alledging that Luka MAY have done the same or something similar to his mother's sister. (the A Yourkin previously mentioned).
PAXIMUS
06-06-2012, 03:46 PM
I think both sides of this debate has made excellent points and none of this is personal, we all agree LM is a monster and we all hope he is punished for it, I dont want to try and make everyone agree with me I am only sharing what I believe to be important and I know others are doing the same. That said we should probably move on or take this somewhere else before we get slapped by a mod.
Jujercu
06-06-2012, 03:48 PM
:truce::truce:I think both sides of this debate has made excellent points and none of this is personal, we all agree LM is a monster and we all hope he is punished for it, I dont want to try and make everyone agree with me I am only sharing what I believe to be important and I know others are doing the same. That said we should probably move on or take this somewhere else before we get slapped by a mod.
magpie8
06-06-2012, 03:48 PM
I'd like to quote passionflower from the last thread, as she raised a good question, but since it has been closed, I cannot.
No matter how much analysis is done here (and it's been extremely impressive--I thank you for it), I think that in the end, all we will learn is the crushingly depressing fact that monsters live among us. Always have, and likely always will. It's even somewhat of a misnomer to call them 'monsters', or even evil, IMO.
For being capable of evil, to me, means that you grasp the difference between good and bad. I don't know Eric Newman any more than I do Paul Bernardo, Karla Homolka, Jeffrey Dahmer, or the inumerable other seeming psychopaths who have committed such heinous crimes, not to mention the ones who walk among us still. But it appears to me that questioning 'why?' is unfortunately fruitless. These people are clearly born without the ability to feel empathy, sympathy, remorse, or any of the related emotions which cause the overwhelming rest of us pain, pause and preventive behaviour.
Lord knows I don't want to launch an abortion debate (I'm personally conflicted on the matter, but respect any other adult's right to choose). But I do know that work is being done to isolate the psychopathy/sociopathy gene. Perhaps that prenatal filtering process would prove the only way to remove the Luka Magnottas from our midst before they have a chance to inflict such horror on others.
Rehabilitation seems sadly impossible, on the other hand.
Fl Breeze
06-06-2012, 03:48 PM
Victims rights are a very tricky thing, while I do understand that a video like this hurts the family and other loved ones, you simply cannot sacrifice the larger issue of a free and uncensored internet in order to prevent individual people from being offended or hurt by something.
In this case the smaller issue of victims rights is sadly less important than the larger issue of a free and uncensored internet because it isnt just about a free and uncensored internet, those who wish to take that away from us would only use that as a starting point to push another even more perverted agenda, that of a war against the very notion of a free society itself.
There has never been a totally free society, that would be a lawless anarchy.
I understand your point but you have no such right, nowhere in any law book or statute in any nation I am aware of, is there such a right. You know when you go on the internet that there are bad things on there and you use it anyway, to suggest you have a RIGHT to not expect that is really absurd. Youre smarter than that, no such right exists, people use the word RIGHT a little too loosely, rights are in things like the bill of rights and constitutions and nowhere is such a right given or implied.
You are suggesting by saying that that you also have a right to go out in public and not see bad things, which is just..absurd my friend. There is no such right anywhere granted to any human being.
In the US, people have the right to use the internet but the government has the right to search it without permission or a court order. In Canada, that can't happen. Rights in the US and Canada are different, so if you're debating from the US, then you would have different points than if you were debating from Canada. In Canada, there is legal precedent such that Canadians want snuff films destroyed, not published.
\What benefit is there to anyone to have the murder and torture videos of the victims of Paul Bernardo, Russell Williams and Eric Newman published?
susan1122
06-06-2012, 03:50 PM
CBC News Alerts @CBCAlerts
Family of murder victim Jun Lin meets with Montreal police .Police: family has gone through 'horrible episode.'
So sad. My heart breaks for the family. :cry:
Me, too....just thinking of Jun's family makes me want to cry. Ugh. So heart breaking. This is unimaginable......to have a loved one go through that kind of murder. And the family that has to go through the aftermath. It's just too sad and horrible.
DD_bwest
06-06-2012, 03:50 PM
I think both sides of this debate has made excellent points and none of this is personal, we all agree LM is a monster and we all hope he is punished for it, I dont want to try and make everyone agree with me I am only sharing what I believe to be important and I know others are doing the same. That said we should probably move on or take this somewhere else before we get slapped by a mod.
i was just about to to say, while i love a good political debate, maybe this debate deserves a thread of its own? im not sure hows mods look at that stuff, as that subject can get rather heated and opinionated..
There's nothing important about that detail. We know Lin Jun was alive until at least 9pm on the 24th when he left a text message for a friend.
Yes it is important. I'd like to establish the timeline for Jun Lin. Victimology is always important in understanding crime.
Dushi
06-06-2012, 03:52 PM
All I can say is a family has lost a beloved member, someone who was important to them, in a most horrendous way
I will gladly give up all rights to view this video , freely.
I feel that these innocent people are being victimized again, for the rights of others to view someone being tortured and killed
JMO
SilkySifaka
06-06-2012, 03:54 PM
As far as I am concerned bravo to those who had the courage to view the video and help us who didn't understand what was being done, who this man was and what level of evil he was.
You did most of us a service, especially those who knew they couldn't handle it. The poster who transcribed it for us did an extra service as well.
To suggest these people who wanted to help find and catch a monster are just looky loos wanting titillation is so unfair and so wrong.
And yes...victims often lose rights..their murder photos and videos are shown to the public in courtrooms around the country and in some cases televised to the world outside the country. We have all seen situations like this.
But here..the movie was on the web, it isn't a question of should it be put on it..that answer i think is no for most of us. GIVEN that it is available, was used as a tool in making this case become an international manhunt by many ws'ers it is just not right to demean those who spent so many hours on this case from day 1.
Cappuccino
06-06-2012, 03:56 PM
I don't think anybody has a right to watch somebody else's murder, or the desecration of a murder victim's corpse by the killer. There is no larger issue of freedom here, the rights that are paramount are those of Jun Lin and his family. This video revictimises those people every time its watched, and those websites hosting it should be prosecuted for it.
Or to put it another way, your right to swing your fist ends at the tip of my nose.
jeanne
06-06-2012, 03:57 PM
Yes it is important. I'd like to establish the timeline for Jun Lin. Victimology is always important in understanding crime.
I totally agree. Timeline is important. But the fact that he logged onto his computer at 8:54 am on the morning of the 24th is not an important detail as it is known he showed up at his job later in the day, left it around 5pm AND communicated with his friends up to 9pm. This is known. Lets put our efforts into shoaring what has yet to be discovered.
I think both sides of this debate has made excellent points and none of this is personal, we all agree LM is a monster and we all hope he is punished for it, I dont want to try and make everyone agree with me I am only sharing what I believe to be important and I know others are doing the same. That said we should probably move on or take this somewhere else before we get slapped by a mod.
Current articles related to this case are about whether the video produced during the murder should have been removed from the Edmonton website where it was published. The owner of the site believes it's his right to publish the material and it seems that investigators disagree.
muse98
06-06-2012, 03:59 PM
Miami Zombies, Florida Vampires, and Snuff Films
We'll start things off by briefly examining the religious and mythological significance of cannibalism throughout the ages. Of cannibalism, the legendary anthropologist James George Frazer states:
"Strange as it may seem to us, one motive which induces a savage warrior to eat the flesh or drink the blood of the foe whom he has slain appears to be a wish to form an indissoluble covenant of friendship and brotherhood with his victim. For it is a widespread belief among savages that by transfusing a little of their blood into each other's bodies two men become kinsmen and allies; the same blood now circulating in the veins of both, neither can injure the other without at the same time injuring himself; the two have therefore given each other the strongest bond, the best possible hostages, for their good behaviour. Acting on this theory, the primitive warrior seeks to convert his slain for into the firmest of friends by imbibing the dead man's blood or swallowing his flesh."
(The Golden Bough, pg. 518)
Legendary mythologist Joseph Campbell goes further than Frazer and breaks the act of cannibalism down to its Archetypal core:
"We all know the fairy tale of the witch who lives in a candy house that would be nice to eat. Indeed, we have seen already what a scare she gave to a child who conjured her up in play. She is kind to children and invites them into her tasty house only because she wants to eat them. She is a cannibal. (And for some six hundred thousand years of human experience cannibals, it should be born in mind --and even cannibal mothers --were grim and gruesome, ever-present realities.) Cannibal ogresses appear in the folklore of peoples, high and low, throughout the world; and on the mythological level the archetype is even more magnified into a universal symbol in such cannibal-mother goddesses as the Hindu Kali, the 'Black One,' who is personified of 'all-consuming Time'; or in the medieval European figure of the consumer of the wicked dead, the female mouth and belly of Hel."
(The Masks of God Volume I, pg. 68)
One of the most curious instances of recent cannibalism comes from Canada, once again. It involves the bisexual porn actor Luka Magnotta, who was just recently arrested on June 4, 2012, in Germany. He stands accused of murdering, dismembering, and eating parts of a Chinese man...
more at http://visupview.blogspot.com/2012/06/miami-zombies-florida-vampires-and.html
matou
06-06-2012, 04:02 PM
CBC right now reporting that police are looking into the possibility that Magnotta may have met Jun Lin at his work.
BorgQueen
06-06-2012, 04:03 PM
As we begin a new thread, let's all take a moment to remember the victim of this senseless crime, Jun/Justin Lin
http://images.ctv.ca/archives/CTVNews/img2/20120601/800_jun_lin_cp_120601.jpg
Reposting this before I play catch up.
:angel:
matou
06-06-2012, 04:04 PM
CBC news: Police stating that the parts were wrapped in plastic and then sent to Ottawa. Police are saying that the time for parcels to arrive would be ending now and that they don`t think the head was mailed (or other parts sent in the mail).
orapronobis
06-06-2012, 04:05 PM
Great find! Had not seen those before.
It is really insane at how much this guy put himself all over the place online. I've found Youtube channels where literally his various personas are all agreeing with each other about Luka. It is like schizophrenia captured in text.
This is why it irritates me when people like the Xtra reporter refer to LRM's "white supremacist" link just because he poste on the Stormfront forums. That's either poor analytical ability or intentionally buying into sensationalism.
LRM'S posted on TONS of popular message boards. He was on bodybuilding.com, the psych forums, DU, aLl those YouTube discussions, about.com, and many more. He went anywhere he could get in front of large amounts of readers, and where he thought he could most effectively leave his trail of bread crumbs.
jeanne
06-06-2012, 04:06 PM
I totally agree. Timeline is important. But the fact that he logged onto his computer at 8:54 am on the morning of the 24th is not an important detail as it is known he showed up at his job later in the day, left it around 5pm AND communicated with his friends up to 9pm. This is known. Lets put our efforts into shoaring what has yet to be discovered.
And, may I add that the police went to Lin Jun's apartment and removed his computer, so I am sure all relevant clues to be found in his online activities are being followed already by LE.
Cappuccino
06-06-2012, 04:07 PM
http://images.ctv.ca/archives/CTVNews/img2/20120601/800_jun_lin_cp_120601.jpg
This is the image that should be all over the internet, not that grisly product of Luka's sick mind.
smart blonde
06-06-2012, 04:08 PM
I don't think anybody has a right to watch somebody else's murder, or the desecration of a murder victim's corpse by the killer. There is no larger issue of freedom here, the rights that are paramount are those of Jun Lin and his family. This video revictimises those people every time its watched, and those websites hosting it should be prosecuted for it.
Or to put it another way, your right to swing your fist ends at the tip of my nose.
Thank you. I absolutely agree.
I feel one has as much 'right' to watch this video as they have the 'right' to view child pornography for it's 'entertainment value'.
Sickening.
Cappuccino
06-06-2012, 04:08 PM
I would probably agree but there was no murder to watch on that video so that point is moot.
Read the post again, especially the part about desecrating the corpse of a murder victim.
KOUKLA75
06-06-2012, 04:09 PM
I don't know if any of this is relevant, but Jun was online with various names,I've been doing a thorough research for the past 5 hrs or so, I don't know if I'm allowed to post them here though?
Mwitah
06-06-2012, 04:12 PM
I'm a few pages behind so forgive me if this is posted already
http://laist.com/2012/06/04/is_the_canadian_cannibal_killer_beh.php
It says a few things that make me think he's connected to the hollywood hills case that I didn't know.
The hollywood case had hands found nearby, and also the victim was homosexual. It also says Luka was in LA within at least a month of the killing per a post on facebookl
But - not sure the sources. Makes me very likely to believe the connection if true.
Again, sorry if duplicate post.
jeanne
06-06-2012, 04:14 PM
I don't know if any of this is relevant, but Jun was online with various names,I've been doing a thorough research for the past 5 hrs or so, I don't know if I'm allowed to post them here though?
Does anyone else find this online sleuthing of the VICTIM as objectionable as I do? The police are in possession of his computer and I am sure are doing their work regarding his online activities. Is these a valid reason we need to be making public his secrets?
Cappuccino
06-06-2012, 04:16 PM
I would probably agree but there was no murder to watch on that video so that point is moot. If you think that the rights of one family and their pain outweighs the larger issue of freedom and the very notion of a FREE SOCIETY then well we wont be agreeing on much, I just cant bring myself to see the world that way. It may be cold and heartless to some but to others who understand the larger issue it is the only way.
Absolute nonsense. The rights which come first here are those which are most important - the victim. Jun Lin did not consent to be in that video, nor to have those sick acts performed on his corpse and viewed by all and sundry. You don't have the right to over ride his lack of consent, any more than you have the "right" to rape someone, or view child porn.
There is no such thing as an absolute freedom, and no amount of patronisation about the "larger issue" will change that. The line has to be drawn somewhere and this particular video is on the unacceptable side of the line. Not just to those of us using our hearts, but to those of us using our heads too.
Does anyone else find this online sleuthing of the VICTIM as objectionable as I do? The police are ibn possession of his computer and I am sure are doing their work regardning his online activities. Is these a valid reason we need to be making public his secrets?
Not to me. Im more like a cop a lead is a lead. check out all that is available.
AudreyRose
06-06-2012, 04:16 PM
CBC news: Police stating that the parts were wrapped in plastic and then sent to Ottawa. Police are saying that the time for parcels to arrive would be ending now and that they don`t think the head was mailed (or other parts sent in the mail).
I dunno - first LE said they didn't think there were any more parts in the mail after the initial discoveries and they were wrong. Then it took Canada Post TWO WEEKS to get the rest of the parts to Vancouver. I'm personally not convinced that nothing else will show up in the mail. Although one poster previously made a good point about how heavy the head would be and the cost to ship it.
I'd still like to know where that backpack is the woman said he had with him when she picked him up hitchhiking...
Either way, for the sake of the family, I hope they locate the head. I think the only thing worse than having it turn up would be the family wondering forever what happened to it.
Nana46
06-06-2012, 04:17 PM
Poor Luka...he's frightened...his new identity? VICTIM>
http://news.nationalpost.com/2012/06/06/luka-rocco-magnotta-fearing-for-his-safety-in-berlin-prison-lawyer-reveals/?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter
GMAB.....He should be thrilled...is in a place where there of lots of men....too bad so sad he is afraid...I am quite sure his victim was afraid also.....get over yourself LRM...you are nothing. IMO
OT: Everytime I click on this thread I see Maggot instead of Magnotta at the top....yeah I need new glasses,lol.
The Gael
06-06-2012, 04:17 PM
The rights and wrongs of the hosting of the video both have good arguments but I'm not sure I can agree with those who feel it should be banned. If that was the case then should all footage of the JFK assassination also be removed from places such as youtube as this shows an innocent man literally having his brains blown out whilst sitting beside his wife?
Is it wrong for people to watch that also? Or is there a fundamental difference between the death of a powerful man and the death of an ordinary man?
For the record I haven't seen the video and have no interest in seeing it but I am almost certain that if that video was not released Magnotta would be still walking the streets now. It ensured the international interest in the case and without it that internet cafe worker would not have thought twice about some random Canadian tourist just looking to use a computer.
neesaki
06-06-2012, 04:18 PM
I don't see the evil in his pictures post arrest. I don't see anything. I think without someone to mimic and an idol to imitate, Luka will turn out to be quite the blob. Not really any real personality of his own to be seen.
It cracks me up that his lawyer says he is nice and polite and looks nothing like a psychopath. There's a video she should watch..
I wonder what she thinks a psychopath looks like. i hope that no one is fooled or charmed by the act.
May be right, just an empty shell now, but still capable of doing what he's done if he is ever free again, because to commit the atrocities he committed he has no goodness, no conscience, certainly no empathy for others in his heart or being.
Makes me think of the movie "Fallen" with John Goodman and Denzel Washington, where the evil spirit moves around from person to person. So maybe the "demon" in this sicko just moved on. After all, can't be much fun for an evil spirit if it's locked up behind bars. jmo
Cappuccino
06-06-2012, 04:19 PM
I dont like it either but if you read and understand what I am saying this is not about arguing in favor of some video, there is a larger issue here and we are at a TIME right now where our leaders are doing everything they can to censor the internet, have you read some of the recent legislation that would allow such. Support for the ban of ANY WEBSITE would only give them the legal precedent they would need to go behind the voters backs and do whatever they want and there is no way I can rightfully support that mostly because I have taken the time to consider what the world may look like if we began to go down that road, I would suggest others take the time to do so also but you have to set aside your emotions and the fact that you are upset about what happened to LIN (I am too, trust me I am repulsed by this whole case), you cant make decisions like this when you are emotionally invested and thinking irrationally.
A slippery slope argument followed by a patronising comment about my alleged lack of ability to think rationally.
That won't wash. Any legislature worth its salt should be able to outlaw videos of this nature without infringing on further freedoms, just as they have been able to outlaw child porn without criminalising all porn, or just as they have been able to outlaw rape without criminalising all sexual acts.
If you don't have such a legislature in Canada then maybe you should vote one in.
http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/Canada/2012/06/06/19843016.html
"Earlier Wednesdaay, police in Montreal claimed they had found a foot found in the Notre-Dame-de-Grace neighbourhood. Shortly afterward, they announced the foot was a fake made of rubber."
prima.facie
06-06-2012, 04:21 PM
Absolute nonsense. The rights which come first here are those which are most important - the victim. Jun Lin did not consent to be in that video, nor to have those sick acts performed on his corpse and viewed by all and sundry. You don't have the right to over ride his lack of consent, any more than you have the "right" to rape someone, or view child porn.
There is no such thing as an absolute freedom, and no amount of patronisation about the "larger issue" will change that. The line has to be drawn somewhere and this particular video is on the unacceptable side of the line. Not just to those of us using our hearts, but to those of us using our heads too.
Im not sure if that is a road you want to go down - rights imposed by the govt. Because the very people whom you want to control the freedoms and rights of people are the very people who have made VIEWING CHILD PORN LEGAL.
You sure you want the govt in control of morals and the rights of people??? Because I dont think they have YOUR same moral code....or mine....or the next persons....
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/05/10/child-pornography-legal-new-york-porn-possession-james-kent_n_1505916.html
It is now not illegal to view child pornography on the internet in New York.
The state's Court Of Appeals ruled Tuesday that simply looking at child pornography online does not constitute criminal possession or procurement of the images.
so since we CANNOT depend on the Govt nor should we.....we are left with what? Self responsability.
....wonder which states will follow....
scapa
06-06-2012, 04:21 PM
So the big picture is not that Canadians wont tolerate it but rather that certain Canadians, typically the ones who are intolerant of just about anything that they dont like or agree with including homosexuality, a woman's right to choose and other controversial issues, do not tolerate it. And that is really no surprise as they are usually the same people who are trying to tell everyone else how they should live, what they should like and what they should be allowed to do in the privacy of their bedrooms. Fortunately for them, there is the rest of us, who work tirelessly to fight for the right for people to believe whatever they want and to express those beliefs so that even if we dont agree with intolerance we fight for them to have the right to be intolerant anyway.
Come on. To desire that a video depicting the brutal murder and degradation of an innocent victim -- an invasion of rights of the very grossest kind -- not be available to be freely enjoyed in the privacy of one's bedroom is surely not the expression of some crude nanny-state intolerance. It isn't a question of freedom of expression, artistic licence or reproductive or other bodily rights. It's rank voyeurism, and the reason you're able to watch it (arguing a point, not setting out my own personal tent posts here) is through the fruit of another's criminal action. And what then distinguishes the distribution of videos of the violent murder and abuse of this victim from the violent murder and abuse of infants or elders or veterans or anyone else?
I have no doubt you work tirelessly as you say you do to ensure freedoms. But this is not in my view a slippery-slope argument; deciding that we as a society don't endorse the murder of persons or animals for the home-viewing pleasure of others is minimally prescriptive, to my mind, and unlikely to seriously impact the fundamental rights of freedom-loving persons like yourself, and myself, come to that. To link being anti-snuff movie to being anti-abortion, anti-equity or anti-anything that really matters is to argue speciously and uncharitably.
IMO
s
http://www.torontosun.com/2012/06/06/former-schools-not-worried-about-magnotta-mail
“He hasn’t been here in 20 years,” principal Peter Sellenkowitsch of Charlottetown Junior Public School said Wednesday. Magnotta, 29, attended grades five and six at Charlottetown.
“We have no concerns,” added Sellenkowitsch. “Everything comes into our office and if I have a concern over something I’ll address it, but nothing suspicious has come in.”
"Magnotta also attended high school in Toronto, where he was enrolled at Sir Oliver Mowat Collegiate Institute.
Mowat Principal Tom Lazarou said exams are just a week away and he’s more concerned with preparing his students than worrying Magnotta picked his school for a grisly delivery"
DD_bwest
06-06-2012, 04:24 PM
stop argueing about it if should be online or not.. the fact remains its online and its never going to be removed. its impossible!
this isnt the place for a political debate, start its own thread if you want
As far as I am concerned bravo to those who had the courage to view the video and help us who didn't understand what was being done, who this man was and what level of evil he was.
You did most of us a service, especially those who knew they couldn't handle it. The poster who transcribed it for us did an extra service as well.
To suggest these people who wanted to help find and catch a monster are just looky loos wanting titillation is so unfair and so wrong.
And yes...victims often lose rights..their murder photos and videos are shown to the public in courtrooms around the country and in some cases televised to the world outside the country. We have all seen situations like this.
But here..the movie was on the web, it isn't a question of should it be put on it..that answer i think is no for most of us. GIVEN that it is available, was used as a tool in making this case become an international manhunt by many ws'ers it is just not right to demean those who spent so many hours on this case from day 1.
Thank you!! I wanted to help right that vicious wrong done to Jun Lin by looking for clues in that video, but I couldn't stop closing my eyes. That poor puppy, too! Hats off to those who wouldn't look away.
I totally agree. Timeline is important. But the fact that he logged onto his computer at 8:54 am on the morning of the 24th is not an important detail as it is known he showed up at his job later in the day, left it around 5pm AND communicated with his friends up to 9pm. This is known. Lets put our efforts into shoaring what has yet to be discovered.
Thank you for your reply. However, I disagree where my time should be best spent. Most respectfully...
Cappuccino
06-06-2012, 04:28 PM
Im not sure if that is a road you want to go down - rights imposed by the govt. Because the very people whom you want to control the freedoms and rights of people are the very people who have made VIEWING CHILD PORN LEGAL.
You sure you want the govt in control of morals and the rights of people??? Because I dont think they have YOUR same moral code....or mine....or the next persons....
so since we CANNOT depend on the Govt nor should we.....we are left with what? Self responsability.
....wonder which states will follow....
You have misunderstood the issues raised in that case completely. Possibly the article you read is inaccurate, so don't feel I'm being snarky with you about it. The MSM, as we can all see from this case, is frequently less than accurate.
I followed the thread here about that very case. The NY ruling means that a person cannot be prosecuted for possession of child porn merely on the grounds that they have child porn in their cache. There needs to be supporting evidence first. That was a sound ruling, because as anyone who is internet savvy knows, having child porn in your cache doesn't mean you've ever viewed it, or even know its there.
And if you don't like your government vote in a better one.
Portabella
06-06-2012, 04:28 PM
If these groups and those crime solving masterminds the Barbie Twins were more successful in their efforts in "getting" Magnotta, Jun Lin would still be alive...
No disrespect meant here, but I can attest to the fact that Sia Barbi is passionate about her love and devotion for saving animals. It is unfair to group all "activists" together as they differ from group to group. I will also say that because this was known about the kitten killings for two long years and literally handed to Law Enforcement on a silver platter and was essentially put on the back burner is not the fault of the "activists". The blame falls solely on not only the Law Enforcement that does not have the time to waste evidently on animal abuse cases, but also on the public who does not demand better laws to protect animals. .... IMHO
However I forgive you for lashing out at "activists" emotions are running high and someone has to have the blame ...
I personally lay the blame on LM....IMHO
for what its worth
06-06-2012, 04:29 PM
GMAB.....He should be thrilled...is in a place where there of lots of men....too bad so sad he is afraid...I am quite sure his victim was afraid also.....get over yourself LRM...you are nothing. IMO
OT: Everytime I click on this thread I see Maggot instead of Magnotta at the top....yeah I need new glasses,lol.
Montreal Maggot is the best moniker I've heard so far.
http://images.ctv.ca/archives/CTVNews/img2/20120601/800_jun_lin_cp_120601.jpg
This is the image that should be all over the internet, not that grisly product of Luka's sick mind.
He's adorable. He was everything Magnotta could never be.
Intermezzo
06-06-2012, 04:30 PM
Cops in Quebec town to search for ties between Magnotta and unsolved 2011 murder
http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/canada/gatineau-police-to-search-for-ties-between-magnotta-and-unsolved-2011-murder-157299545.html
I don't think there is a connection but who knows. The alleged suspect was fluent in french which I don't believe LRM is.
Here is the sketch of the suspect.
http://storage.canoe.ca/v1/dynamic_resize/sws_path/suns-prod-images/1297204848876_ORIGINAL.jpg/?quality=75&size=297
The murder of that girl was gruesome and horrific
I heard today on local news that the Police were going to take another look into this case because it still remains unsolved.
HastingsChi
06-06-2012, 04:31 PM
TO TRY TO GET US BACK ON TRACK:
As we know Luka Rocco Magnotta is not his given name but the name he chose for himself. Given the way we have tirelessly analyzed the various screen names he has used, I am curious:
Has anyone determined the significance of the name Luka Rocco Magnotta?
If not, what might it be?
Does anyone else find this online sleuthing of the VICTIM as objectionable as I do? The police are in possession of his computer and I am sure are doing their work regarding his online activities. Is these a valid reason we need to be making public his secrets?
I don't understand the objection? He wasn't doing anything wrong as far as I can tell. I'd like to find out how he may have met Magnotta.
jeanne
06-06-2012, 04:34 PM
TO TRY TO GET US BACK ON TRACK:
As we know Luka Rocco Magnotta is not his given name but the name he chose for himself. Given the way we have tirelessly analyzed the various screen names he has used, I am curious:
Has anyone determined the significance of the name Luka Rocco Magnotta?
If not, what might it be?
We know that Magnotta is the name of a winery near where he grew up...quite a notable name in the area I am told.
Cappuccino
06-06-2012, 04:35 PM
He's adorable. He was everything Magnotta could never be.
I read in one new article, (sorry I forget where), that Jun Lin had already come out as gay some time before he left China. That must have taken courage, I don't imagine China would be the most liberal environment in which to out yourself as a homosexual.
He was ten times the man Luka Magnotta could ever be, and he was better looking too, without any need for make up or photoshop.
Nana46
06-06-2012, 04:36 PM
Montreal Maggot is the best moniker I've heard so far.
Totally agree!!!!!!!!!!!!
neesaki
06-06-2012, 04:36 PM
I understand your point but you have no such right, nowhere in any law book or statute in any nation I am aware of, is there such a right. You know when you go on the internet that there are bad things on there and you use it anyway, to suggest you have a RIGHT to not expect that is really absurd. Youre smarter than that, no such right exists, people use the word RIGHT a little too loosely, rights are in things like the bill of rights and constitutions and nowhere is such a right given or implied.
You are suggesting by saying that that you also have a right to go out in public and not see bad things, which is just..absurd my friend. There is no such right anywhere granted to any human being.
The internet created a whole new and different world which changed everything, imo. There is bad, then there is Really Bad then there is Beyond Really Bad. If a very bad and violent criminal act is committed, it is immoral and a crime and illegal. So it's just my opinion that it can't be right, moral, or legal to film such a violent, criminal, illegal act and publish it on the internet for anyone to see.
Otto I understand your point and I am really not trying to argue IN FAVOR of such videos what I AM TRYING TO ARGUE is AGAINST this little thing we in the legal profession call PRECEDENT. That is to say once we allow them to ban one website that SETS LEGAL PRECEDENT for them to do it again and again and again and you should know, as intelligent as you seem to be, once you give them a litte rope they will then take as much as they can.
That is my only concern here, I would be remiss in my profession if I allowed my emotion to get in the way of the larger issue here and only considered the fact that SOME may be offended by something by allowing a legal precedent to be set so that further censorship by those who push that perverted agenda would be easy for them to accomplish. So this issue here is not about this video PER SE, it is about the larger issue of allowing them to censor ONE THING thereby giving them the legal power and precedent to censor others and THEY WILL do so, you can bet on it, history doesnt LIE.
I have more faith in Canadian people than that. Canadians are a laid back lot ... not inclined to get upset about much of anything ... but when it comes to something like allowing video of murder to be published, Canadians draw the line. Preventing the publication of video made by murderers does not mean that Canadians will now be subjected to the Patriot Act ... it's apples and oranges.
seahawks
06-06-2012, 04:38 PM
It really bothers me that nobody within the media has at least asked the question about the dog, given LRM's history with animals.
BorgQueen
06-06-2012, 04:38 PM
GMAB.....He should be thrilled...is in a place where there of lots of men....too bad so sad he is afraid...I am quite sure his victim was afraid also.....get over yourself LRM...you are nothing. IMO
OT: Everytime I click on this thread I see Maggot instead of Magnotta at the top....yeah I need new glasses,lol.
BBM:
You're not the only one who has misread that. :floorlaugh:
I have a tendency to misread things quite a bit, between poor vision and reading too fast.
Back to the article... oh, boo hoo. If he is afraid in prison, I wonder if he thinks back to how his victim felt?
As for him seeming polite and friendly, I have joked (not on this thread, but with a friend overseas), that if one was to be mugged in Canada, the perp would ask "Would you kindly give me your wallet, please? If you don't comply, I am afraid I will have to shoot you. Thank you, have a nice day"
Seeming polite and friendly really doesn't mean anything. It doesn't mean that one is not capable of terrible things.
Jujercu
06-06-2012, 04:39 PM
Magnotta comes from a video game he played called Ripper http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ripper_(computer_game)
HastingsChi
06-06-2012, 04:39 PM
We know that Magnotta is the name of a winery near where he grew up...quite a notable name in the area I am told.
Does the Magnotta winery sell something fancy like white zinfandel in a box? :blushing:
HastingsChi
06-06-2012, 04:40 PM
Magnotta comes from a video game he played called Ripper http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ripper_(computer_game)
Interesting.
Seems we have conflicting information: Winery or Video Game?
Also: I've always noted the unique way of spelling Luka. Anyone know why?
SmoothOperator
06-06-2012, 04:40 PM
Idk about actual meaning of this person choosing Magnotta as his legal alter ego name..but i do know I'm right there with Nana continuing to mistake him for Maggot.. err I mean his name for Maggot.
http://www.cp24.com/servlet/an/local/CTVNews/20120606/120606_montreal_foot/20120606/?hub=CP24Home
"Police were trying to determine whether Magnotta had any personal connection to Vancouver.
"Our suspect travelled extensively," said Montreal police Cmdr. Ian Lafreniere.
"We know he's travelled to the American West Coast. (We're now investigating), has he been to the Canadian West Coast?"
As for the rubber limb found in Montreal, Lafreniere said there had been all sorts of rumours in recent days including some fuelled on the Internet by "fans" of Magnotta.
Police said the rubber-limb incident might warrant a criminal mischief charge".
PAXIMUS
06-06-2012, 04:41 PM
It really bothers me that nobody within the media has at least asked the question about the dog, given LRM's history with animals.
I agree, I have not heard a single report about what happened to that dog, I really, really would like to know.
jeanne
06-06-2012, 04:44 PM
Interesting.
Seems we have conflicting information: Winery or Video Game?
Also: I've always noted the unique way of spelling Luka. Anyone know why?
Some say it's Russian, and given his preoccupation with his VERY IMPORTANT job with the Russion Mafia, it could be that. There is also that Song Luka, about the child being abused?
Jujercu
06-06-2012, 04:46 PM
Interesting.
Seems we have conflicting information: Winery or Video Game?
Also: I've always noted the unique way of spelling Luka. Anyone know why?
No conflict ...the fact the name of the winery is Magnotta has nothing to do with LM...the winery released a statement days ago and there were a few articles stating they didn't want to be connected with LM....the fact that he got the name from a video game he often played is where the name camefrom.. from what I have seen and it makes the most sense...I haven't read about any connections with the winery. I have no links but if I come across it again I'll post the link..
HastingsChi
06-06-2012, 04:47 PM
It really bothers me that nobody within the media has at least asked the question about the dog, given LRM's history with animals.
I absolutely agree seahawks.
Funny that JVM failed to mention it in her hard hitting interview with one of the Barbie Twins who, if you didn't know, is now a "master detective" who [very unsuccessfully] "hunted" Magnotta for those kitten videos. Oddly enough in that segment which mentioned there was a victim but focused solely on the kitten crimes (her only coverage of Magnotta on Monday) the well being of the dog was not mentioned.
DD_bwest
06-06-2012, 04:48 PM
has anyone been able to find his very first reference to himself as luka? im trying to do a dated search right now.. track his early days
The murder of that girl was gruesome and horrific
I heard today on local news that the Police were going to take another look into this case because it still remains unsolved.
WS thread for V.L.(latest news has her Mom thinking there is no connection,) but I am glad they are checking it out .
http://websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=147934&page=7
BorgQueen
06-06-2012, 04:49 PM
I read in one new article, (sorry I forget where), that Jun Lin had already come out as gay some time before he left China. That must have taken courage, I don't imagine China would be the most liberal environment in which to out yourself as a homosexual.
He was ten times the man Luka Magnotta could ever be, and he was better looking too, without any need for make up or photoshop.
I didn't read that he came out before leaving China. I agree, that was very brave of him. I also commend his family. It seems like they accepted him for who he was, and loved him anyway, as a parent should. From what I have been told, customs and traditions in China can be quite strict, and a homosexual there could easily be "disowned", but it doesn't seem that he was. Without knowing much more, it sounds like his parents were good people who raised a good man.
Canada should have been the perfect place for him to move to, to build and improve his life, find a nice man to love and be loved by. This should never have happened. Sounds like all he wanted was love and a good life.
for what its worth
06-06-2012, 04:49 PM
Interesting.
Seems we have conflicting information: Winery or Video Game?
Also: I've always noted the unique way of spelling Luka. Anyone know why?
Video Game seems likely as he is reported to have played it and it falls within his interests it would seem (serial killer + blending of fantasy and reality)
Though, I'll throw this out there as a potential lead. I noticed that Karla Homolka's sister is friends with 2 Magnotta's. She's also friends with Maggot, one of 26 people (or something like that) so it may not even be a real FB page and instead possibly one set up by Maggot. It's worth mentioning though in the event that there is something in it.
It really bothers me that nobody within the media has at least asked the question about the dog, given LRM's history with animals.
I know. The media doesn't even mention that poor pup. Maybe, just maybe, if what Magnotta did to those other innocent furbabies had been taken more seriously, Magnotta may have realized that he could NOT get away with murdering a person!
susan1122
06-06-2012, 04:50 PM
He doesn't speak the language so likely can't chat with many people. He won't understand any television that may be available to him. His hideous crime was overshadowed by Berlin's own horrific dismemberment story so he's likely not all over the news. He has no way to lap up his infamy which is why he likely did all of this to begin with (IMO). He's surrounded by the hardest of criminals in a maximum security prison who would undoubtedly like to induct him in ways which he would be powerless to; he should be terrified.
Poor, poor Eric didn't think this one through very well.
These are probably some of the reasons he isn't fighting extradition.
HastingsChi
06-06-2012, 04:51 PM
Some say it's Russian, and given his preoccupation with his VERY IMPORTANT job with the Russion Mafia, it could be that. There is also that Song Luka, about the child being abused?
I thought my name is Luka I live on the second floor was about violence against women, not child abuse (and Luka was a girl)...
I wonder why he thought he could pull off Russian? Does he have Russian heritage? I'm surprised the Russian [there is no] Mafia didn't go after him; from what I understand they don't enjoy people saying their part of the group when they are not...
HastingsChi
06-06-2012, 04:53 PM
Video Game seems likely as he is reported to have played it and it falls within his interests it would seem (serial killer + blending of fantasy and reality)
Though, I'll throw this out there as a potential lead. I noticed that Karla Homolka's sister is friends with 2 Magnotta's. She's also friends with Maggot, one of 26 people (or something like that) so it may not even be a real FB page and instead possibly one set up by Maggot. It's worth mentioning though in the event that there is something in it.
Folks, every time we insinuate a connection or relationship to the Homolka's, somewhere Magnotta is smiling...
for what its worth
06-06-2012, 04:53 PM
These are probably some of the reasons he isn't fighting extradition.
Undoubtedly. Added to this, I think he'd love to be close to his mentor, Paul Bernardo as it has been speculated on that he would be held in the same prison.
PAXIMUS
06-06-2012, 04:54 PM
Hastingschi earlier you proposed a time line about when and how Luka first became a NOTABLE MEDIA figure and I think that would be a great idea, I would help if I can. I would like to know if Luka was known to the media BEFORE the kitten killings and how that became to be the case, it seems to be that he wasnt KNOWN before then, but I may be missing something, from what I have seen he was IDed by 4chan and the Anonymous hacker collective after the kitten video went viral and he then capitalized on that media attention to begin making a bigger name for himself by planting various forum comments and videos all over the net using sock puppets to both call attention to himself and create the illusion of a fan base.
What say you, do we have any evidence that Luka was a notable media character before the kitten video whether in the adult entertainment industry or otherwise.
In any case I think you should go forward with that project.
Lera213
06-06-2012, 04:54 PM
You can bet that the FBI and other law enforcement agency will without a doubt know every isp list of computers that hit the play button on that killvid. They will start a new database with it. Count on it.
for what its worth
06-06-2012, 04:55 PM
Folks, every time we insinuate a connection or relationship to the Homolka's, somewhere Magnotta is smiling...
I haven't insinuated a connection, merely pointing out that he may have copied the name from their connections. He desperately tried to link himself to KH so would this be out of the question?
"German police have been investigating where he spent his time since arriving by bus from Paris on Friday. After reaching Paris from Montreal on an Air Canada flight, Magnotta apparently met at least one and possibly two different men who he made have relationships with. Although he spoke French poorly, he had spent time in the City of Love in 2010."
Read more: http://www.montrealgazette.com/news/Luka+Rocco+Magnotta+have+eaten+part+slaying+victim/6732562/story.html#ixzz1x35Nl1IN
HastingsChi
06-06-2012, 04:58 PM
Hastingschi earlier you proposed a time line about when and how Luka first became a NOTABLE MIDIA figure and I think that would be a great idea, I would help if I can. I would like to know if Luka was known to the media BEFORE the kitten killings and how that became to be the case, it seems to be that he wasnt KNOWN before then, but I may be missing something, from what I have seen he was IDed by 4chan and the Anonymous hacker collective after the kitten video went viral and he then capitalized on that media attention to begin making a bigger name for himself by planting various forum comments and videos all over the net using sock puppets to both call attention to himself and create the illusion of a fan base.
What say you, do we have any evidence that Luka was a notable media character before the kitten video whether in the adult entertainment industry or otherwise.
In any case I think you should go forward with that project.
Absolutely, that Naked News 10 minute interview was from 2007, years before the kitten videos.
It was around that time 07/08 that he began spreading the false rumor of a connection to KH.
jeanne
06-06-2012, 04:58 PM
I thought my name is Luka I live on the second floor was about violence against women, not child abuse (and Luka was a girl)...
I wonder why he thought he could pull off Russian? Does he have Russian heritage? I'm surprised the Russian [there is no] Mafia didn't go after him; from what I understand they don't enjoy people saying their part of the group when they are not...
Honestly, who knows why he did any of the things he did. His mother's name does sound Slavic sounding? Perhaps she has a Russian background? As far as Magnotta, yes I completely agree that the video game reference is more likely the source, but I recall reading, in the volumous amount of material on him that he had some dealings with a son of the Magnotta family in school? Could be a jealousy thing. It is a fairly well-to-do family in the area he grew up in. Perhaps both sources interlap.
Lera213
06-06-2012, 04:58 PM
My guess is luka's first animal kill was when he was still very young. Maybe age between 7 and 13. Unless his family comes out and speaks about his childhood life and not the words that LM stated but from his family I don't think anyone can really piece together his life and when that brain clicked into a sick sadistic mind.
I personally think he is possessed.
BorgQueen
06-06-2012, 05:01 PM
Notes were found... I am curious about the content of the notes.
http://www.cp24.com/servlet/an/local/CTVNews/20120606/120606_body_parts/20120606/?hub=CP24Home
Interesting.
Seems we have conflicting information: Winery or Video Game?
Also: I've always noted the unique way of spelling Luka. Anyone know why?
I think its so he can find sluth himself and differ from most. peeter nyte is allot easier to find then the millions of hits you would get with peter night.
Girlwiththestartat
06-06-2012, 05:02 PM
You can bet that the FBI and other law enforcement agency will without a doubt know every isp list of computers that hit the play button on that killvid. They will start a new database with it. Count on it.
Maybe they will start a list, but do you really expect they are going to investigating every person who watched it?
PAXIMUS
06-06-2012, 05:03 PM
Absolutely, that Naked News 10 minute interview was from 2007, years before the kitten videos.
It was around that time 07/08 that he began spreading the false rumor of a connection to KH.
Yes that is true and as you pointed out a Naked Media interview is no small matter in that industry so how and why would they want to interview some 2 bit male hooker with no real accomplishments to speak of and who at the time wasnt even known as the kitten killer, I dont get it. He must have ********ed his way in to those few notable media gigs and then ran with them.
susan1122
06-06-2012, 05:04 PM
has anyone been able to find his very first reference to himself as luka? im trying to do a dated search right now.. track his early days
I remember reading that he asked to be called that when he was in his early 20's.....sorry I don't have a link. This case has an overwhelming amount of info! To stay somewhat caught up I have had to skip tons of pages.....too bad because I like to read everything.
In Suzanne Vega's song she spells the name Luka.....and it is about child abuse, I think. Chances are he took the name from this song.
http://www.google.com/search?q=suzanne+vega+luka&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&hl=en&client=safari
Lera213
06-06-2012, 05:05 PM
Maybe they will start a list, but do you really expect they are going to investigating every person who watched it?
They will cross reference the isp's...what other sites with that ISP that they visit....did they download the video,,,ect It's called a data base for a reason.
The Gael
06-06-2012, 05:05 PM
His mother's name does sound Slavic sounding? Perhaps she has a Russian background?
I believe his grandfather was in the Soviet army.
HastingsChi
06-06-2012, 05:05 PM
You can bet that the FBI and other law enforcement agency will without a doubt know every isp list of computers that hit the play button on that killvid. They will start a new database with it. Count on it.
I doubt the FBI would have a list, they have enough on there hands in the States...
A Canadian agency might track that information...
jeanne
06-06-2012, 05:05 PM
Yes that is true and as you pointed out a Naked Media interview is no small matter in that industry so how and why would they want to interview some 2 bit male hooker with no real accomplishments to speak of and who at the time wasnt even known as the kitten killer, I dont get it. He must have ********ed his way in to those few notable media gigs and then ran with them.
I agree, I found that interview very strange, to say the least. Why would they chose to interview a low-rent callboy. Someone should ask the producers.
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