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View Full Version : ARRESTED- Luka Rocco Magnotta:1st deg murder charge #8


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imamaze
06-03-2012, 08:52 PM
Story still developing, but these two events may be connected. A suspicious package that turned up at Conservative Party HQ in our nation's capital seems to have contained a human foot. On the same day a torso was found in a suitcase in Montreal in a garbage skip. Political wags are already homing in on the symbolism of the act, but something far more serious may in play here.


Thread #1
Thread #2
Thread #3
Thread #5
Thread #6
Thread #7


http://ca.news.yahoo.com/body-found-garbage-c-te-des-neiges-184939144.html
Torso found in Montreal garbage pile
The major crimes unit of the Montreal police is investigating the discovery of a torso in a pile of garbage in the Côte-des-Neiges borough, west of Décarie Boulevard.

http://ca.news.yahoo.com/blogs/canada-politics/human-foot-found-suspicious-package-conservative-party-headquarters-191024177.html
Human foot found in ‘suspicious package’ at Conservative Party headquarters
Authorities say they were called to the Tory offices at Albert Street at 11:20am.
"Upon arrival, officers noted that the ... package had blood stains on it," the Ottawa Police Service said in a release, according to the Globe and Mail.

WARNING: the video that is online depicting the murder is extremely graphic and we are not posting links to it here at websleuths.

TIMELINE/MEDIA/INFO THREAD

Please continue here...


Here are some PRELIMINARY guidelines. Staff continues to reivew and assess, so please be patient. This list will change as necessart to keep up with the case.

What is Allowed:

MSM - may quote only ~10% of article. Anything more is a copyright violation.

Photos - they MUST be linked and they may NOT be of innocent people - LM ONLY

Links to the Kitten Killer investigation site - do NOT copy and paste comments. Provide direction for other posters to find the comments and you can paraphrase or summarize and discuss.

LM's Facebook pages - They must be his. No sleuthing of friends/family or others that are found on these Facebook pages. Other LM social sites need to be approved by a Mod because of content/authenticity.

Links to the KHolmoka discussion board - do NOT copy and paste comments. Same rule as the kitten investigation site.

Jun Lin's social media sites - but again, you may NOT sleuth his friends or family.

NOT ALLOWED:

Links to sex sites

Photos of LM with unknown and/or innocent people (we know LM doctored many photos to make it look like he had friends - DO NOT post those).

Links to graphic youtube files.

Links to unapproved blogs - if you want to link to a blog - obtain moderater permission FIRST.

Donation sites - donation sites are not allowed without the express approval of WS's owners.

Petition sites - petition sites are not allowed without the express approval of WS's owners.

FrayedKnot
06-10-2012, 10:54 AM
His arrest photo looks very different than the other photos (I thought that even his neck looked longer) ... perhaps it's the make-up he uses to give the illusion of refined, or chiseled, high cheek bones.

True dat. I would have walked right by him and never glanced twice.

The arrest photo definitely does not show the gamine, emo-ish face that was depicted in all the other photos we had seen of him. That, and the ruddy complexion, gingery hair and brows, and hazelish eyes......totally different person. (not really, I know- just looks it)

Lera213
06-10-2012, 10:56 AM
Thanks Imamaze!

Sonya610
06-10-2012, 11:03 AM
I've always heard everyone is born with blue eyes. It seems that blue and green eyes are the most desirable, so maybe people put "blue" on birth certificates before they change.


All Caucasian babies are born with blue/gray eyes (as are all puppies). Asian and Black babies are born with brown eyes. The eye color changes within few weeks (if it changes), well within 3-4 weeks for puppies not sure about human babies.

james62
06-10-2012, 11:21 AM
I wanted to quote from jujercu on the other thread, but as it's closed i've copied and pasted the post I am replying to:

'Thanks so much for caring and trusting us posters to share this very touching account of your life. I feel it gives many some very good insight on what we are talking about..much respect to you james...and for what its worth I think you arOe a very valuable member here and it was your familys loss to not include you in their version of what a life is...but IMO that was probably better for you.'

I am actually now reconciled with my Dad and Stepmum and we have an excellent relationship now, tho I never would've thought that possible given everything I went through growing up.

I will be following all aspects of this case, but I am particularly interested in the mental health aspect given my own background. Of course we don't know exactly the state of LRM's mind or exactly what conditions he may have, but I am interested in how people's upbringing and childhood experiences affect them later in life, and if anything can be done through intervention.

When I was discharged by my Clinical Psychologist, she told me that my condition is not totally curable but told me not to take that as only negative. She added something like 'the fact that you have had this condition since you were a small child is what has enabled you to become the caring, compassionate person you are now.' That has stuck in my mind.

Now, it seems likely that LM had severe childhood abuse/trauma, and we don't know how that might have affected him later in life, or whether he does also have other underlying conditions such as psychopathy. But I'd be very interested to try and understand why he turned out like he did, and whether things could have been different.

I realise I'm rambling here, but I sincerely hope that something can be learned from this appalling case.

I also really hope that Lin Jun gets the justice he deserves, for both him and his family.

deanna82437
06-10-2012, 11:21 AM
As seen on another thread and so well worth the read and applicable in this case IMO

Athena Research Group
Behavioral Evidence Analysis & Security Consulting

The Less Dead

Not much thought is put into research about the victims of serial crime. Most accounts of serial killers that are found in true crime books give lurid details of rape/murder/dismemberment, but do not ever go into much detail about the victim. With interest in forensics and criminal investigation and profiling at a high peak these days, online(in particular) Universities have begun to offer degree plans specifically in criminal profiling, looking through the plan of study lots of information about the criminal but not much information about his (or in some cases her) victim.


Read more at the site ..
http://www.athenaresearchgroup.org/thelessdead.htm

HastingsChi
06-10-2012, 11:34 AM
I'd like to welcome you my friends, so glad you could attend the show that never ends...

AKA

Good morning (or whatever time of day it might be in your locale) boys and girls. Hope everyone is having a great Sunday.

What's new in the Magnotta world today?

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy S II

james62
06-10-2012, 11:35 AM
As seen on another thread and so well worth the read and applicable in this case IMO

Athena Research Group
Behavioral Evidence Analysis & Security Consulting

The Less Dead



Read more at the site ..
http://www.athenaresearchgroup.org/thelessdead.htm

I'm not sure I'm that happy with the way gay people are referred to in that link, it seems to have been written by someone with quite dated attitudes, i.e. that a lot of gay people hate themselves.

I found this part very strange:

Not all (or even most) members of the gay community are killers. Some serial killers have been gay men. The reason behind their crimes may be, as proposed by Maghan and Sagarin the simple fact that they are taking out their rage at being gay on their victims. Or another way to explain the crime is that the victim because a symbolic victim, the victim becomes a symbol of what the offender hates the most...himself.

As a gay man myself, that sounds like something that might have been written a few decades ago.

I will have a bit more of a look at the site tho.

HastingsChi
06-10-2012, 11:41 AM
I'm not sure I'm that happy with the way gay people are referred to in that link, it seems to have been written by someone with quite dated attitudes, i.e. that a lot of gay people hate themselves.

I found this part very strange:

Not all (or even most) members of the gay community are killers. Some serial killers have been gay men. The reason behind their crimes may be, as proposed by Maghan and Sagarin the simple fact that they are taking out their rage at being gay on their victims. Or another way to explain the crime is that the victim because a symbolic victim, the victim becomes a symbol of what the offender hates the most...himself.

As a gay man myself, that sounds like something that might have been written a few decades ago.

I will have a bit more of a look at the site tho.

James62, thank you for both your sensitivity and dedication to examining information shared here and highlighting key information to help prove or disprove a writer's theory; I greatly admire that about you and many other members.

I'd guess the author may have seen this (which I shared on the Magnotta thread on Friday as part of my Friday Funnies):

Marijuana will kill you- the same way that homosexuals are dangerous and will rape and murder you according to this 1950's Public Service Announcement:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v3S24ofEQj4&feature=related

As I stated in the Friday Funnies:
Since everything in a Public Service Announcement is true, I think we can all agree that Magnotta committed this crime SOLELY because he was a marijuana smoking homosexual. Since these two PSAs say so, let's agree there can be no other possible factors. Case closed my friends, case closed...

Sonya610
06-10-2012, 11:47 AM
I will be following all aspects of this case, but I am particularly interested in the mental health aspect given my own background. Of course we don't know exactly the state of LRM's mind or exactly what conditions he may have, but I am interested in how people's upbringing and childhood experiences affect them later in life, and if anything can be done through intervention.

When I was discharged by my Clinical Psychologist, she told me that my condition is not totally curable but told me not to take that as only negative. She added something like 'the fact that you have had this condition since you were a small child is what has enabled you to become the caring, compassionate person you are now.' That has stuck in my mind.

Take heart in the fact that no one is "normal". From my experience counselors and shrinks are some of the most messed up people (as a group) out there.

Behavior is largely in the genes. Everyone that knows dogs knows that Basset Hounds are different than Jack Russell Terriers, doesnt matter how they were raised they are DIFFERENT yet when it comes to humans it is supposed to be all environmental?

Do the best you can with the hand you were dealt.

Sonya610
06-10-2012, 11:57 AM
Marijuana will kill you- the same way that homosexuals are dangerous and will rape and murder you according to this 1950's Public Service Announcement...

One of the things I like about this thread is that it has bought out some interesting personalities and attracted some interesting new posters.

Most threads bring out the "June Cleaver" reactions and fake personas, this thread has a healthy dose of reality thrown in.

james62
06-10-2012, 11:58 AM
Take heart in the fact that no one is "normal". From my experience counselors and shrinks are some of the most messed up people (as a group) out there.

Behavior is largely in the genes. Everyone that knows dogs knows that Basset Hounds are different than Jack Russell Terriers, doesnt matter how they were raised they are DIFFERENT yet when it comes to humans it is supposed to be all environmental?

Do the best you can with the hand you were dealt.

yes, i'd heard that about counsellors and shrinks being some of the most messed up people- it was my clinical psychologist who told me :floorlaugh:

I know that a lot of what I've gone through has been environmental. there will almost certainly have been genetic elements sure. My main condition is a form of anxiety which can be extremely severe. It was explained to me that the sudden disappearance of a primary care giver (i.e. parent) at a young age is probably the most severe trauma a young child can experience. In my case it expresses itself in many ways, but the worst is 'catastrophisation', i.e. being convinced that something dreadful is about to happen. For me it's logical that I should fear that, because it actually did happen when I was 6, and very sudden it was two. One minute she was there, next minute gone until i found her 35 years later.

For me depression is a secondary condition brought on by the anxiety disorder.

Anyway I'm finding your posts on this (mental health) aspect very interesting. Thank you.

otto
06-10-2012, 11:59 AM
This seems to describe Eric Newman.

"Today, social media provide a forum for budding deviants to publicly display their narcissistic tendencies, a space where they can seek out validation or admiration for their ideas and fetishes and even "rehearse" their crimes."

http://www.canada.com/technology/Magnotta+case+highlights+importance+Internet+intel ligence+enforcement/6757682/story.html#ixzz1xPC5Wr43

No_Stone_Unturned
06-10-2012, 12:02 PM
Thread #8 already! I wonder what will happen in Berlin this week - they did say he'd be extradited 'soon'.

otto
06-10-2012, 12:05 PM
Take heart in the fact that no one is "normal". From my experience counselors and shrinks are some of the most messed up people (as a group) out there.

Behavior is largely in the genes. Everyone that knows dogs knows that Basset Hounds are different than Jack Russell Terriers, doesnt matter how they were raised they are DIFFERENT yet when it comes to humans it is supposed to be all environmental?

Do the best you can with the hand you were dealt.

Nature V Nurture is a very old debate. There's no answer. That said, it seems to me that behavior is not an innate trait, but rather something that is learned through social conditioning.

If it is true that Eric was abused by an older man as a young child (per the interview with the former partner), then that social conditioning probably played a role in who he is today.

otto
06-10-2012, 12:06 PM
Thread #8 already! I wonder what will happen in Berlin this week - they did say he'd be extradited 'soon'.

The end of June is what I've read.

HastingsChi
06-10-2012, 12:07 PM
One of the things I like about this thread is that it has bought out some interesting personalities and attracted some interesting new posters.

Most threads bring out the "June Cleaver" reactions and elements, this thread has a healthy dose of reality thrown in.

I too am really enjoying the wonderful dialogue that continues throughout these threads.

I am impressed how many others are as comfortable as I am using elements of personalization in their posts which allow other members to better understand how or why we are viewing things from an angle or perspective different than their own and, in doing so, learn from each other and potentially agree with, respect or just appreciate the global patchwork of diversity that the dialogue of this thread is quilted into.

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy S II

HastingsChi
06-10-2012, 12:11 PM
This seems to describe Eric Newman.

"Today, social media provide a forum for budding deviants to publicly display their narcissistic tendencies, a space where they can seek out validation or admiration for their ideas and fetishes and even "rehearse" their crimes."

http://www.canada.com/technology/Magnotta+case+highlights+importance+Internet+intel ligence+enforcement/6757682/story.html#ixzz1xPC5Wr43

I recently viewed the documentary Paradise Lost 3 and it seems like every 10 years we make another excuse for behavior...

Am I the only one who misses the early American colony system where they threw the accused in a lake and if the sank they were innocent and if they float they're guilty... Sure the tiny little flaw was the dead innocent people at the bottom of the lake....

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy S II

Sonya610
06-10-2012, 12:12 PM
This seems to describe Eric Newman.

"Today, social media provide a forum for budding deviants to publicly display their narcissistic tendencies, a space where they can seek out validation or admiration for their ideas and fetishes and even "rehearse" their crimes."


I personally think in many ways it has been equally good and bad. Eric Newman is an oddity.

Many people are born different, if they have certain ideas or fantasies that don't fit into mainstream they can think they are monstrous and evil and destined to do evil etc... The net is the global mind and it has allowed individuals that otherwise would have NEVER met or talked to likeminded people to realize they are not alone. They are not the only one that think certain things, there are others out there like them and those other folks lead "normal" lives and don't follow a predestined path.

In the case of people that have death fetishes I do believe the social networking has been a good and positive thing. Social isolation combined with deviant ideas can be very dangerous, it can lead to a lot of self-hate and that is never a good thing for someone that has homicidal tendencies. For some folks the net has provided much needed role models and acceptance in a good way.

deanna82437
06-10-2012, 12:13 PM
I'm not sure I'm that happy with the way gay people are referred to in that link, it seems to have been written by someone with quite dated attitudes, i.e. that a lot of gay people hate themselves.

I found this part very strange:

Not all (or even most) members of the gay community are killers. Some serial killers have been gay men. The reason behind their crimes may be, as proposed by Maghan and Sagarin the simple fact that they are taking out their rage at being gay on their victims. Or another way to explain the crime is that the victim because a symbolic victim, the victim becomes a symbol of what the offender hates the most...himself.

As a gay man myself, that sounds like something that might have been written a few decades ago.

I will have a bit more of a look at the site tho.

Honestly, no offense intended James. I was taken more by the references to the victim than the offender in this case. The book referenced was published in 2001, so your take on attitude towards gay may be appropriate. I have absolutely nothing against gay people and as a matter of fact I have a brother that is gay and announced same to the family many years ago.

Take care James and thank you for your valuable input here.

livingstone
06-10-2012, 12:14 PM
There was a video clip on Toronto Sun around 6/2 or so where a behavioral profiler was discussing the perp's dismemberment video.

This profiler had viewed the video and was working with police in Canada.

He stated that the 'THE' video went on for over an hour.

That means police do have an unedited version.

No guarantee I can find the video. Working on it.

HastingsChi
06-10-2012, 12:17 PM
There was a video clip on Toronto Sun around 6/2 or so where a behavioral profiler was discussing the perp's dismemberment video.

This profiler had viewed the video and was working with police in Canada.

He stated that the 'THE' video went on for over an hour.

That means police do have an unedited version.

No guarantee I can find the video. Working on it.

It's possible. If the unnamed profiler is blabbing details police have not released to the media, I doubt he or she will be working with the police in a few hours from now...

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy S II

james62
06-10-2012, 12:18 PM
Nature V Nurture is a very old debate. There's no answer. That said, it seems to me that behavior is not an innate trait, but rather something that is learned through social conditioning.

If it is true that Eric was abused by an older man as a young child (per the interview with the former partner), then that social conditioning probably played a role in who he is today.

I think that in all likelihood it's a combination of both nature and nurture. I know that in my case life events are at the root of the illness. That said, it is also possible that someone else would not have reacted in the same way as I did to the same life events. Which would be where nature came in.

I agree too that if LM was abused by older men, that could have played a role. It was in the video link I posted earlier where there were interviews with a forensic psychologist and LM's ex (the transexual writer). The latter mentioned that he kept on sleeping with older men (altho for money), kind of replicating it.

Chorley8
06-10-2012, 12:21 PM
I should add Mariam was Georgian Ingushetia borders Georgia.

HastingsChi
06-10-2012, 12:21 PM
There's nothing similar between the murder of Lin and the suicide of Mariam. She was found fully clothed, with injuries consistent with a fall, beneath an underpass in a park that her family sometimes visited. She was depressed and lonely after arriving in Canada.

Otto, I know Magnotta wasn't born at the time but I read on the internet that Magnotta or a post that a screen name that might have been used by Magnotta may have written that Luka Rocco Magnotta is the real assassin of JFK and Lee Harvey Oswald was truthful that he was "just a patsy"...

:-)

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy S II

badhorsie
06-10-2012, 12:22 PM
All Caucasian babies are born with blue/gray eyes (as are all puppies). Asian and Black babies are born with brown eyes. The eye color changes within few weeks (if it changes), well within 3-4 weeks for puppies not sure about human babies.

Same with kittens

badhorsie
06-10-2012, 12:26 PM
yes, i'd heard that about counsellors and shrinks being some of the most messed up people- it was my clinical psychologist who told me :floorlaugh:

I know that a lot of what I've gone through has been environmental. there will almost certainly have been genetic elements sure. My main condition is a form of anxiety which can be extremely severe. It was explained to me that the sudden disappearance of a primary care giver (i.e. parent) at a young age is probably the most severe trauma a young child can experience. In my case it expresses itself in many ways, but the worst is 'catastrophisation', i.e. being convinced that something dreadful is about to happen. For me it's logical that I should fear that, because it actually did happen when I was 6, and very sudden it was two. One minute she was there, next minute gone until i found her 35 years later.

For me depression is a secondary condition brought on by the anxiety disorder.

Anyway I'm finding your posts on this (mental health) aspect very interesting. Thank you.

I am a psych nurse/ desperate housewife and my husband is a psychotherapist, nuff said :floorlaugh:

HastingsChi
06-10-2012, 12:27 PM
Honestly, no offense intended James. I was taken more by the references to the victim than the offender in this case. The book referenced was published in 2001, so your take on attitude towards gay may be appropriate. I have absolutely nothing against gay people and as a matter of fact I have a brother that is gay and announced same to the family many years ago.

Take care James and thank you for your valuable input here.

deanna82437 both you and James shared great information; the human behavior theory was so interesting that James read the whole thing and only highlighted info that caused concern about the author's logic. I can't imagine James was judging you or implying that you espoused the view of the author he mentioned (unless you are the author of that article LOL)

Thanks to both of you for sharing such valuable information and a great dialogue about such journal articles.


Sent from my Samsung Galaxy S II

Sonya610
06-10-2012, 12:29 PM
Nature V Nurture is a very old debate. There's no answer. That said, it seems to me that behavior is not an innate trait, but rather something that is learned through social conditioning.

If it is true that Eric was abused by an older man as a young child (per the interview with the former partner), then that social conditioning probably played a role in who he is today.

I am sure the social conditioning DID play a role. Having said that crazy parents pass along their genes and then often act crazy when raising their offspring. Does that make it all about nurture? We don't know who that "older man" was do we? We don't know if the man was related, or if his parents failed to protect him etc....

It is a combination. 50/50 at the best of times. Good nurturing can reduce certain traits and enhance other traits. Anyone that has taken an interest in domestic non-human animals realizes that fact, but when the word "human" is mentioned genetics are supposed to be non-relevant with regards to behavior.

PAXIMUS
06-10-2012, 12:30 PM
yes, i'd heard that about counsellors and shrinks being some of the most messed up people- it was my clinical psychologist who told me :floorlaugh:

I know that a lot of what I've gone through has been environmental. there will almost certainly have been genetic elements sure. My main condition is a form of anxiety which can be extremely severe. It was explained to me that the sudden disappearance of a primary care giver (i.e. parent) at a young age is probably the most severe trauma a young child can experience. In my case it expresses itself in many ways, but the worst is 'catastrophisation', i.e. being convinced that something dreadful is about to happen. For me it's logical that I should fear that, because it actually did happen when I was 6, and very sudden it was two. One minute she was there, next minute gone until i found her 35 years later.

For me depression is a secondary condition brought on by the anxiety disorder.

Anyway I'm finding your posts on this (mental health) aspect very interesting. Thank you.

It is very likely that ones genes determine how they deal with and respond to, the environment.

Some people are abused, sexually and/or otherwise, growing up, and when they are adults they become abusers themselves to dismay of everyone since they of all people should know the pain it causes others but they become abusers anyway, whereas others who are abused become adults would never do such a thing or even consider it because they indeed know the pain it brings to a person. This is likely due to genes and those genes playing a role in how one responds to environmental factors.

livingstone
06-10-2012, 12:31 PM
It's possible. If the unnamed profiler is blabbing details police have not released to the media, I doubt he or she will be working with the police in a few hours from now...

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy S II

Yeah, most likely. It was at the beginnings of the case.

And, like you said it most likely LE did not appreciate that detail being discussed publicly.

I remember hearing that the video was fairly longer than what the public had seen and thinking "wow, over an hour long...what happened to the other portions?" I assumed that was most likely for potential buyers or perp's personal use.

Agree with the people who believe that an extended version in fact exists. It would make no sense to not record the whole thing.

Imagine being on the jury and having to see the unedited version.

For those who cannot stomach things like that very well it would be traumatic.

Salem
06-10-2012, 12:38 PM
Lists for what is allowed and what is not allowed have been added to the first post of this thread. Please take a look at it. Also, please understand this is preliminary and will be adjusted as we move forward and additional information becomes available or questions arise.

As always - if you have questions or concerns, please pm a moderator.

Thanks,

Salem

james62
06-10-2012, 12:39 PM
Honestly, no offense intended James. I was taken more by the references to the victim than the offender in this case. The book referenced was published in 2001, so your take on attitude towards gay may be appropriate. I have absolutely nothing against gay people and as a matter of fact I have a brother that is gay and announced same to the family many years ago.

Take care James and thank you for your valuable input here.

Hey, no offence taken at all. The reason I clicked on the link was what you said about references to the victim rather than the offender, and wanted to read more. I will continue to browse that site, there's quite a lot of stuff there and it might be interesting.

Sonya610
06-10-2012, 12:39 PM
He stated that the 'THE' video went on for over an hour.

If you find it I would appreciate a link. There had to be a WHOLE lot more video of that situation. Not sure it will be released, Armin had a whole lot of video and 10 years later to my knowledge (please correct me if I am wrong) it has never been released.

HastingsChi
06-10-2012, 12:42 PM
Yeah, most likely. It was at the beginnings of the case.

And, like you said it most likely LE did not appreciate that detail being discussed publicly.

I remember hearing that the video was fairly longer than what the public had seen and thinking "wow, over an hour long...what happened to the other portions?" I assumed that was most likely for potential buyers or perp's personal use.

Agree with the people who believe that an extended version in fact exists. It would make no sense to not record the whole thing.

Imagine being on the jury and having to see the unedited version.

For those who cannot stomach things like that very well it would be traumatic.

I've never murdered someone, never decapitated someone, never committed cannibalism and never committed acts of necrophilia; but would agree that doing all those acts might take well over an hour if not hours.

Depending on what his endgame for filming it was, I would not be surprised if there are several different 'director's cut' version of the video.

Although, speaking form experience, having worked at MSM outlets in which the 'one man band' video journalism model was utilized (reporter produces it, shoots it, writes scripts, does VO and edits the footage into the final package for review by an editor), I can tell you that even using the best software, the video editing process is always time consuming no matter how proficient one could be. I'm not sure he had the time to do a ton of editing...

PAXIMUS
06-10-2012, 12:46 PM
I have seen several people state that the authorities have now for certain determined that it is Luka in the video. This is NOT apparent in the edited version and the assumption is that in the unedited version that the authorities have he can be seen. I have found NO reports that indicates this but it has been stated here as fact several times, so can anyone show me a report where it indicates that he can be SEEN in the unedited version and the authorities have FOR CERTAIN tied him to the video, because I dont believe that is the case.

I am looking for stuff myself but not finding anything yet.

Chorley8
06-10-2012, 12:47 PM
1. The post is dated September 18th 2010 4 days past the 1 year anniversary of Mariam's disappearance also note he uses 2009 in his user name. It is not impossible of course that Mariam was murdered on the 18th.

2. before the body was found many in blogs and chat rooms many did not think the video was real they emphasized how easily L.M. cut up the body. Perhaps like someone not only who has done this before but who had training. Anyone have a perspective on this know somebody who is a doctor etc.? It is an important clue from the video looking beyond this one man's death to others.

HastingsChi
06-10-2012, 12:49 PM
1. The post is dated September 18th 2010 4 days past the 1 year anniversary of Mariam's disappearance also note he uses 2009 in his user name. It is not impossible of course that Mariam was murdered on the 18th.

2. before the body was found many in blogs and chat rooms many did not think the video was real they emphasized how easily L.M. cut up the body. Perhaps like someone not only who has done this before but who had training. Anyone have a perspective on this know somebody who is a doctor etc.? It is an important clue from the video looking beyond this one man's death to others.

Sounds like the Mariam case is important to you. Maybe a mod might allow you to start a thread focused on that case.

Sealuzna
06-10-2012, 12:52 PM
I have seen several people state that the authorities have now for certain determined that it is Luka in the video. This is NOT apparent in the edited version and the assumption is that in the unedited version that the authorities have he can be seen. I have found NO reports that indicates this but it has been stated here as fact several times, so can anyone show me a report where it indicates that he can be SEEN in the unedited version and the authorities have FOR CERTAIN tied him to the video, because I dont believe that is the case.

I am looking for stuff myself but not finding anything yet.You won't find a report because none exists, nor does a one-hour uncut video viewed by a Sun TV guest "profiler". :)

HastingsChi
06-10-2012, 12:53 PM
I have seen several people state that the authorities have now for certain determined that it is Luka in the video. This is NOT apparent in the edited version and the assumption is that in the unedited version that the authorities have he can be seen. I have found NO reports that indicates this but it has been stated here as fact several times, so can anyone show me a report where it indicates that he can be SEEN in the unedited version and the authorities have FOR CERTAIN tied him to the video, because I dont believe that is the case.

I am looking for stuff myself but not finding anything yet.

IMO the silly goose got too caught up in the enjoyment of the unspeakable acts he was committing and, in an unedited version, allowed his face shown on camera. As this horrific act was the epitome of him carrying out his most twisted sexual desires, I believe he would want to keep an unedited version and "Little Luka" probably is most responsive when "big Luka's" face is shown...

PAXIMUS
06-10-2012, 12:58 PM
IMO the silly goose got too caught up in the enjoyment of the unspeakable acts he was committing and, in an unedited version, allowed his face shown on camera. As this horrific act was the epitome of him carrying out his most twisted sexual desires, I believe he would want to keep an unedited version and "Little Luka" probably is most responsive when "big Luka's" face is shown...

Well that could be true but from a legal perspective I really want to know if they can tie him to that video for certain, a few have stated that they can but I dont see how that can be the case unless they can see his face in the unedited version but I have not seen anyone official suggest that is the case yet it was stated here in several posts that he can be seen in it. Where did that information come from is my question.

Sonya610
06-10-2012, 12:59 PM
<modsnip>
Warning amateur forensic opinion don't read if squeemish:

I don't really see Luka dismembering females (as in identified as female at birth).

Having said that I was surprised at the dismemberment thing too. The cuts appeared to be clean, real clean with no hesitation marks. Just seered through the bone maybe with a power saw? (I can't review the video because the major gore sites are getting heat from their web hosts and pulling the video... temporarily). This happened in an apartment? I guess power saws could be used but would make a lot of noise. Worse case -- building manager shows up and makes a frowny face and says keep down the noise.

Generally dismemberment involves the joints, deal with the muscle/tissue and break the joint (I know this following a dismemberment case an researching the rendering of deer).

The throat cut was also very very clean, like....errmmmm...either the body was washed off after or already deceased, obviously the later.

I completely agree the dismembered arm thing seemed odd. I am not sure what I can and can't say without getting mod snipped, just talking about the known facts of the case here.

LadyL
06-10-2012, 12:59 PM
It is very likely that ones genes determine how they deal with and respond to, the environment.

Some people are abused, sexually and/or otherwise, growing up, and when they are adults they become abusers themselves to dismay of everyone since they of all people should know the pain it causes others but they become abusers anyway, whereas others who are abused become adults would never do such a thing or even consider it because they indeed know the pain it brings to a person. This is likely due to genes and those genes playing a role in how one responds to environmental factors.

or it's due to some people being exposed to 'good' influences and others not so much

this debate could go on and on (& already has) ... like James' therapist said - it's the chicken/egg argument

girlinblue
06-10-2012, 01:00 PM
IMO the silly goose got too caught up in the enjoyment of the unspeakable acts he was committing and, in an unedited version, allowed his face shown on camera. As this horrific act was the epitome of him carrying out his most twisted sexual desires, I believe he would want to keep an unedited version and "Little Luka" probably is most responsive when "big Luka's" face is shown...

I don't think he cared to hide his face. This wasn't frenzied. He wasn't in a rush. He wasn't excited about it. There is not one scene in the "sampler" that indicates he's into what he's doing. He was just doing something he thought of as necessary to get an end result. I'm sure he would have edited a "full" version of the video when a buyer or time was right, to keep his face out. But only to make it more interesting. He fancies himself a manipulator. But I get the impression this guy couldn't program a VCR.

Lera213
06-10-2012, 01:02 PM
It doesn't matter to me if LM was abused and how it played into what he did. The fact that he took off after the crime shows he knew it was wrong.

To understand a serial killer and why they do things well that is another story. James stated his life story, however James by all accounts that I can see has empathy, emotions, and was not narcissistic whereas LM without a doubt was narcissistic.

PAXIMUS
06-10-2012, 01:03 PM
The only thing I think the unedited version shows is him actually dismembering the body as you do not see that in the edited version, you only see the non-dismembered body then a cut away and suddenly the body is dismembered, he likely edited that out because it would take a long time and a lot of work to dismember the arms, legs, head etc that is not easy to do and would likely require more tools than just the little steak knife that he uses to play around with in the edited version.

He may have slipped up and showed his face in it, that is possible, I would just like to know where the posters who have suggested such got that info, for my own notes.

It is not that I doubt the posters I just want to document that for my own research.

PAXIMUS
06-10-2012, 01:07 PM
It doesn't matter to me if LM was abused and how it played into what he did. The fact that he took off after the crime shows he knew it was wrong.

To understand a serial killer and why they do things well that is another story. James stated his life story, however James by all accounts that I can see has empathy, emotions, and was not narcissistic whereas LM without a doubt was narcissistic.

That is a good point but he also didnt try and hide, he was at a bar partying and talking to people while his face was on every news channel and the front of every newspaper, he openly went to internet cafes etc. Certainly not the behavior of someone living in fear of getting caught because he did something very bad. I think a case could be made that he is not criminally responsible because of insanity and a case could be made otherwise, I could effectively argue both sides of that to some degree of success.

HastingsChi
06-10-2012, 01:08 PM
Well that could be true but from a legal perspective I really want to know if they can tie him to that video for certain, a few have stated that they can but I dont see how that can be the case unless they can see his face in the unedited version but I have not seen anyone official suggest that is the case yet it was stated here in several posts that he can be seen in it. Where did that information come from is my question.

The Canadian legal system is something that I am looking forward to better understanding. I am embarrassed by the ethnocentric ignorance I currently have about the in's and out's of Canada's system of justice and the wheels that make it turn. While we export and seem to flood Canadians with our media, we rarely take the opportunity to learn about them. The film Canadian Bacon is a great illustration of American ignorance about Canada.

Based on your legal background and what you shared with me PAX, you've learned much more about the Canadian legal burden of proof that must be met for conviction and the manner which they conduct legal cases. Therefore I give the points you raised much more weight in my mind.

otto
06-10-2012, 01:08 PM
I have seen several people state that the authorities have now for certain determined that it is Luka in the video. This is NOT apparent in the edited version and the assumption is that in the unedited version that the authorities have he can be seen. I have found NO reports that indicates this but it has been stated here as fact several times, so can anyone show me a report where it indicates that he can be SEEN in the unedited version and the authorities have FOR CERTAIN tied him to the video, because I dont believe that is the case.

I am looking for stuff myself but not finding anything yet.

I believe that it was stated in the press release after the arrest, as that is where details of the RAW video were released. Police would not have issued an arrest warrant without evidence implicating Eric.

Sonya610
06-10-2012, 01:09 PM
He may have slipped up and showed his face in it, that is possible, I would just like to know where the posters who have suggested such got that info, for my own notes.

It is not that I doubt the posters I just want to document that for my own research.

It is a given that there was more video, lots more. I don't think for a minute Luka spent hours in that bathroom and didn't videotape any of it, that part was hard work. Perhaps the video taken in the bathroom didn't focus enough on HIM so that part was edited out?

Lera213
06-10-2012, 01:10 PM
I think the problem LE might have is this: They have LM on video clearly in the act, however his attorney will argue that someone force him, it is not LM but a look alike, and on the charges of uploading the video they have to authenticate he actually uploaded. This tells me they found a data disc or found it online the unedited version.

I am wondering if he didn't have a photobucket account that we are not aware of where the video was set private. This way he could rewatch the video any place he can get online.

I'm kind of thinking outloud again so I'm all over the place.

Lera213
06-10-2012, 01:12 PM
That is a good point but he also didnt try and hide, he was at a bar partying and talking to people while his face was on every news channel and the front of every newspaper, he openly went to internet cafes etc. Certainly not the behavior of someone living in fear of getting caught because he did something very bad. I think a case could be made that he is not criminally responsible because of insanity and a case could be made otherwise, I could effectively argue both sides of that to some degree of success.
if reports are correct, he left is cell phone in car in order for the cops to follow it (something like that) he left stuff in his hotel room, he wore glasses, a wig, and was in a different country were he thought he wouldn't be recognized as easy with his glasses, or wig on.

livingstone
06-10-2012, 01:13 PM
If you find it I would appreciate a link. There had to be a WHOLE lot more video of that situation. Not sure it will be released, Armin had a whole lot of video and 10 years later to my knowledge (please correct me if I am wrong) it has never been released.

I have never heard of the Armin video going public either. There was that movie "Grimm Love." You see that?


Just watched about 8 videos, and I cannot find it yet. Unfortunately, no linky......I stinky.

I do recall (absolutely) that this male criminologist stated verbatim that "the video went on for over an hour."

Will give it a few more tries, then I give up.


You know, an unedited copy could exist somewhere with somebody. Never know.

If it did, I doubt the person/s would ever risk uploading it. Maybe though. Anything's possible.

james62
06-10-2012, 01:14 PM
I believe that it was stated in the press release after the arrest, as that is where details of the RAW video were released. Police would not have issued an arrest warrant without evidence implicating Eric.

I thought they had CCTV footage of him dropping the black bags outside, which also contained papers and documents identifying him, plus film of him appearing to send the parcels, plus it happened at his appartment. I would have thought that together would be grounds for arrest on suspicion of murder.

girlinblue
06-10-2012, 01:15 PM
I have never heard of the Armin video going public either. There was that movie "Grimm Love." You see that?


Just watched about 8 videos, and I cannot find it yet. Unfortunately, no linky......I stinky.

I do recall (absolutely) that this male criminologist stated verbatim that "the video went on for over an hour."

Will give it a few more tries, then I give up.


You know, an unedited copy could exist somewhere with somebody. Never know.

If it did, I doubt the person/s would ever risk uploading it. Maybe though. Anything's possible.

I wouldn't waste your energy on it, Livingstone. If it was out there it would've blown up by now. I don't think we'll ever see it.

james62
06-10-2012, 01:16 PM
if reports are correct, he left is cell phone in car in order for the cops to follow it (something like that) he left stuff in his hotel room, he wore glasses, a wig, and was in a different country were he thought he wouldn't be recognized as easy with his glasses, or wig on.

I read in an MSM report (sorry no link) that he threw his phone in a rubbish bin in the Paris metro. However, the phone was found by a cleaner and used, leading police to think he was still in Paris when he was actually in Berlin.

Sealuzna
06-10-2012, 01:16 PM
if reports are correct, he left is cell phone in car in order for the cops to follow it (something like that) he left stuff in his hotel room, he wore glasses, a wig, and was in a different country were he thought he wouldn't be recognized as easy with his glasses, or wig on.He left it in a subway car in the Paris Metro.

Lera213
06-10-2012, 01:17 PM
Oh wait, is Candian law the same as the US as in, in a court of law, if LE cannot autenticate the video it will be deem unmissable in court?

Sealuzna
06-10-2012, 01:18 PM
I thought they had CCTV footage of him dropping the black bags outside, which also contained papers and documents identifying him, plus film of him appearing to send the parcels, plus it happened at his appartment. I would have thought that together would be grounds for arrest on suspicion of murder.You are exactly correct. :)

otto
06-10-2012, 01:18 PM
I thought they had CCTV footage of him dropping the black bags outside, which also contained papers and documents identifying him, plus film of him appearing to send the parcels, plus it happened at his appartment. I would have thought that together would be grounds for arrest on suspicion of murder.

I'm sure that there is plenty of evidence. We also have heard from police that they have the RAW video. If it was someone other than Eric Newman committing the murder, we would have heard about it.

PAXIMUS
06-10-2012, 01:19 PM
The Canadian legal system is something that I am looking forward to better understanding. I am embarrassed by the ethnocentric ignorance I currently have about the in's and out's of Canada's system of justice and the wheels that make it turn. While we export and seem to flood Canadians with our media, we rarely take the opportunity to learn about them. The film Canadian Bacon is a great illustration of American ignorance about Canada.

Based on your legal background and what you shared with me PAX, you've learned much more about the Canadian legal burden of proof that must be met for conviction and the manner which they conduct legal cases. Therefore I give the points you raised much more weight in my mind.

I have a lot more to learn about their system myself, I have just started that part of my research but I am starting to get some idea of the differences between that system and our own, while most of those differences seem minor to the untrained eye they will indeed play a big role in how this case is tried and defended there as opposed to how it may be tried an defended here.

Lera213
06-10-2012, 01:20 PM
The problem LE has is not who killed him, for that I think shows on the raw video, but they have to authenticate he was the one that recorded it and uploaded it in order for it to be admissable in court. Also this will be needed to for the other charges other than the Murder 1

Sonya610
06-10-2012, 01:20 PM
I have never heard of the Armin video going public either. There was that movie "Grimm Love." You see that?

Nope, but will search for it. I am a netflix member and was sad to realize someone told me about "A Serbian Film" ages ago and it WAS on netflix for a bit but then censored/deleted before I knew it was there.

I am not so comfy with downloading non-legit sources of full length movies because of the virus risks, plus i don't know how to unzip them.

HastingsChi
06-10-2012, 01:25 PM
I have a lot more to learn about their system myself, I have just started that part of my research but I am starting to get some idea of the differences between that system and our own, while most of those differences seem minor to the untrained eye they will indeed play a big role in how this case is tried and defended there as opposed to how it may be tried an defended here.

PAX, given the information about this potential case that has been confirmed up until this point, what would you think his potential defense case might be? (Others, especially those with intimate knowledge of the Canadian justice system please feel free to chime in on this question)

livingstone
06-10-2012, 01:26 PM
Warning amateur forensic opinion don't read if squeemish:

I don't really see Luka dismembering females (as in identified as female at birth).

Having said that I was surprised at the dismemberment thing too. The cuts appeared to be clean, real clean with no hesitation marks. Just seered through the bone maybe with a power saw? (I can't review the video because the major gore sites are getting heat from their web hosts and pulling the video... temporarily). This happened in an apartment? I guess power saws could be used but would make a lot of noise. Worse case -- building manager shows up and makes a frowny face and says keep down the noise.

Generally dismemberment involves the joints, deal with the muscle/tissue and break the joint (I know this following a dismemberment case an researching the rendering of deer).

The throat cut was also very very clean, like....errmmmm...either the body was washed off after or already deceased, obviously the later.

I completely agree the dismembered arm thing seemed odd. I am not sure what I can and can't say without getting mod snipped, just talking about the known facts of the case here.

Graphic

In my first post I had stated that my opinion (same as yours) was that the throat was cut postmortem.

The blood pattern and especially the amount was one that indicates a "smooth and even spillage." This would suggest no blood pressure was present at the time.

This is why I suggested that OD, or smothering, could have been the method of death. There was no obvious trauma to the victim when he was shown postmortem, and prior to the ice pick frenzy.

Yes, I too noticed the smooth and clean cuts.

Re: getting through bone....there was an article posted here a while back that stated the police found "several sharp and blunt instruments." Essentially one could use a mallet and hammer if need be to cut through bone. May take a while and be messy, but, it could be done.

And, true a power saw could have been used. But as you pointed out there is the noise issue.

He obviously practiced on household pets. I cannot see this kid going hunting and dressing large game.

Cappuccino
06-10-2012, 01:29 PM
The problem LE has is not who killed him, for that I think shows on the raw video, but they have to authenticate he was the one that recorded it and uploaded it in order for it to be admissable in court. Also this will be needed to for the other charges other than the Murder 1

I'm not sure they need to prove who uploaded or recorded it for it to be admissable in court. If it shows him committing the murder it will be evidence no matter who recorded/uploaded it - after all, if he'd been caught on CCTV camera committing a murder that would be admissable in court, so I see no reason why this video shouldn't be.

They will need to establish that for the other charges though.

9InchNails
06-10-2012, 01:30 PM
I read in an MSM report (sorry no link) that he threw his phone in a rubbish bin in the Paris metro. However, the phone was found by a cleaner and used, leading police to think he was still in Paris when he was actually in Berlin.

Yes, that's also what I read.

http://www.europe1.fr/France/Depeceur-de-Montreal-le-travail-de-fourmi-de-la-police-1113881/

Sauf que le tueur présumé s'était débarrassé de son téléphone dans une poubelle du métro. En réalité, le mobile avait été récupéré par un agent de nettoyage qui s'en est servi pour appeler chez lui, en Afrique.

Translation: But the suspected killer had thrown his phone away in a bin in the metro. Actually, the mobile phone had been recovered by a cleaner who then used it to call his family in Africa.

Salem
06-10-2012, 01:30 PM
Sounds like the Mariam case is important to you. Maybe a mod might allow you to start a thread focused on that case.

WS sleuths followed Miriam's case closely. It is highly unlikely that it is connected to this case. Miriam's threads may be found here:

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=165585&highlight=Miriam


Salem

GatsbyGrace
06-10-2012, 01:31 PM
I have to say that given the highly disturbing nature of this case & the graphic images that are floating around the interwebs, I am glad that the mods have put the rules in place about not linking to blogs, etc.

The other night, I was catching up on one of the threads & clicked a blog link & almost lost my dinner. There was a horrifying graphic still pic from the killvid at the bottom of the page. I messaged the poster & asked them to put a warning on that post (which he/she did ... thank you!), and they messaged me back a very gracious apology & said that those images were NOT there earlier in the day when he/she posted the link.

At this point, it's nearly impossible to guarantee that what is there when a link is posted will be the same content minutes, hours or days later.

livingstone
06-10-2012, 01:31 PM
I wouldn't waste your energy on it, Livingstone. If it was out there it would've blown up by now. I don't think we'll ever see it.

Am not concerned about the unedited version other than to hope it exists for purposes of the criminal proceeding. An unedited version would help to assure conviction.

If an unedited version existed and found its way to the internet, I would not personally view it. The 10 minute version was quite enough for my professional interest.

In fact, the reason I watched the video at all was because it is in line with my profession and this perp is one I care to study a bit, due to his unique profile.

HastingsChi
06-10-2012, 01:34 PM
In the six days since Magnotta's arrest, I've been looking for additional reporting on one aspect of the investigation that seems to have gone silent: From the Mirror (a UK based tabloid considered as MSM)
"French clubber reveals terror after spending two nights with fugitive gay porn star"
www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/cannibal-killer-i-slept-with-luka-rocco-861745

My roots as a journalist immediately made me recognize that, if true, this story has legs. The details and discussion of their alleged time together would merit coverage not only in tabloid publications, but also: MSM throughout Canada, local Paris media, GLBT-focused media and other MSM organizations because, in my opinion, if this is true, this guy has a story to tell.

However this story has completely disappeared.

Thoughts?

GatsbyGrace
06-10-2012, 01:34 PM
I'm sure that there is plenty of evidence. We also have heard from police that they have the RAW video. If it was someone other than Eric Newman committing the murder, we would have heard about it.

BBM.

Exactly. It would be sinking to LM's level to think that they've let the 'real killer' roam free while he sits in a Berlin prison, 'framed' by the Montreal police for a murder he did not commit.

LadyL
06-10-2012, 01:35 PM
if reports are correct, he left is cell phone in car in order for the cops to follow it (something like that) he left stuff in his hotel room, he wore glasses, a wig, and was in a different country were he thought he wouldn't be recognized as easy with his glasses, or wig on.

I read in an MSM report (sorry no link) that he threw his phone in a rubbish bin in the Paris metro. However, the phone was found by a cleaner and used, leading police to think he was still in Paris when he was actually in Berlin.

He left it in a subway car in the Paris Metro.

[bbm]

this is like a game of telephone tag IMO & this is why we need to post MSM links

HastingsChi
06-10-2012, 01:37 PM
I have to say that given the highly disturbing nature of this case & the graphic images that are floating around the interwebs, I am glad that the mods have put the rules in place about not linking to blogs, etc.

The other night, I was catching up on one of the threads & clicked a blog link & almost lost my dinner. There was a horrifying graphic still pic from the killvid at the bottom of the page. I messaged the poster & asked them to put a warning on that post (which he/she did ... thank you!), and they messaged me back a very gracious apology & said that those images were NOT there earlier in the day when he/she posted the link.

At this point, it's nearly impossible to guarantee that what is there when a link is posted will be the same content minutes, hours or days later.

Thank you for sharing that GatsbyGrace and I am so sorry that you had to experience viewing such images.

I know that after viewing such images I will never, ever be able to forget the image of Mr Lin's face following the unspeakable horrors that were done to him. I've prayed to forget to remember that image but as of now that has not happened.

jeanne
06-10-2012, 01:39 PM
In the six days since Magnotta's arrest, I've been looking for additional reporting on one aspect of the investigation that seems to have gone silent: From the Mirror (a UK based tabloid considered as MSM)
"French clubber reveals terror after spending two nights with fugitive gay porn star"
www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/cannibal-killer-i-slept-with-luka-rocco-861745

My roots as a journalist immediately made me recognize that, if true, this story has legs. The details and discussion of their alleged time together would merit coverage not only in tabloid publications, but also: MSM throughout Canada, local Paris media, GLBT-focused media and other MSM organizations because, in my opinion, if this is true, this guy has a story to tell.

However this story has completely disappeared.

Thoughts?

I can think of two possible reasons: one, the guy is scared and has disappeared to avoid being deluged by the press, or two, there's no story to tell beyond a two evening sexual tryst.

james62
06-10-2012, 01:42 PM
Yes, that's also what I read.

http://www.europe1.fr/France/Depeceur-de-Montreal-le-travail-de-fourmi-de-la-police-1113881/



Translation: But the suspected killer had thrown his phone away in a bin in the metro. Actually, the mobile phone had been recovered by a cleaner who then used it to call his family in Africa.

Ah yes, thank you. I'm sure that's where I saw it too.

PAXIMUS
06-10-2012, 01:42 PM
PAX, given the information about this potential case that has been confirmed up until this point, what would you think his potential defense case might be? (Others, especially those with intimate knowledge of the Canadian justice system please feel free to chime in on this question)

That is a good question, it is really hard to know what sort of defense may be in play here without having all of the evidence laid out in front of me to pick apart and witnesses to cross examine in pre trial deposition etc but from what I DO know and knowing what I do about Luka, right now, I would suggest he is going to argue he was framed and from the evidence I DO SEE right now, I could very well, and to some degree of success, make that argument well enough to plant some reasonable doubt in at least one juror.

However, if I were able to get a diagnoses for an Axis 1 mental disorder I would very likely put not criminally responsible by reason of insanity OR guilty but insane if they have his face on the video, on the table. If he is diagnosed with an Axis 2 mental disorder then insanity, at least in the states is likely not a possible defense. Common Axis I disorders include depression, anxiety disorders, bipolar disorder, ADHD, and schizophrenia/psychosis. Common Axis 2 disorders include borderline personality disorder, schizotypal personality disorder, antisocial personality disorder, and mild mental retardation. Axis 1 disorders can be treated with medication and are the ones normally used in an insanity defense. Axis 2 disorders can very rarely be treated with medication and are generally not accepted by the court as evidence of being criminally insane, with the exception of mental retardation which is usually ruled as not competent to stand trial.


As you know a defendant is not required to put on any defense and he could simply plead not guilty and then take his chances with the state being able to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that he is guilty. Or he could put on an active defense arguing that he was framed or insane etc. Again, right now, I would probably argue he was framed, even though I dont believe that personally I could argue it in court, but if I had an actual Axis 1 diagnoses I would definitely consider some sort of insanity defense.

Karmady
06-10-2012, 01:43 PM
yes, i'd heard that about counsellors and shrinks being some of the most messed up people- it was my clinical psychologist who told me :floorlaugh:
I know that a lot of what I've gone through has been environmental. there will almost certainly have been genetic elements sure. My main condition is a form of anxiety which can be extremely severe. It was explained to me that the sudden disappearance of a primary care giver (i.e. parent) at a young age is probably the most severe trauma a young child can experience. In my case it expresses itself in many ways, but the worst is 'catastrophisation', i.e. being convinced that something dreadful is about to happen. For me it's logical that I should fear that, because it actually did happen when I was 6, and very sudden it was two. One minute she was there, next minute gone until i found her 35 years later.

For me depression is a secondary condition brought on by the anxiety disorder.

Anyway I'm finding your posts on this (mental health) aspect very interesting. Thank you.

I think this is very true. Just speculating, but I would think that many people who study psychology do so because they have an interest in the subject for personal reasons and are trying to better understand their own situation. I know that is very true for myself. I'm not a practicing psychologist, but I do hold a degree in it. I found the subject matter extremely interesting in its own right, but there was a very personal element to it, too. In fact, I wrote my senior paper on my personal topic, unbeknownst to anyone but myself.

So if there's any truth to my speculation, many people who follow that professional path have their own childhood traumas to deal with. jmo

HastingsChi
06-10-2012, 01:44 PM
I think it is important in the early pages of a new thread to ask that we all might take a moment and remember Jun / Justin Lin and his family and friends who are going through a very difficult time.

http://www.cbc.ca/gfx/images/news/topstories/2012/06/02/hi-junlin-852-8col.jpg

While I shared this article in the previous thread, I feel it is important to highlight again from the Calgary Herald:

Stricken with grief, family of Jun Lin says: 'We come to take you home'http://www.calgaryherald.com/news/national/Family+dismemberment+victim+makes+emotional+journe y+from/6744263/story.html#ixzz1xPh7Y2z3

A wave of sorrow washes over Yan Shi's face as he describes meeting the mother of the victim of one of Canada's most horrific crimes.

Jun Lin's mother could barely be understood amid her sobs but Shi said one message for her murdered son came out clear as a bell — "We come to bring you home now."


Lin's mother struggled to stay on her feet and was so overcome with grief that she could barely express herself.

"The entire scene was heartbreaking," Shi told The Canadian Press in an interview.

"Lin's mother was very emotional. She was crying the entire time. It's really terrible just being there. We didn't understand a word she was saying, she was crying a lot.

"She was barely walking. We had to help her."


Read more:




http://www.cbc.ca/gfx/images/news/photos/2012/06/06/si-lin-christmas-300.jpg
Jun Lin, a man of peace

livingstone
06-10-2012, 01:45 PM
Nope, but will search for it. I am a netflix member and was sad to realize someone told me about "A Serbian Film" ages ago and it WAS on netflix for a bit but then censored/deleted before I knew it was there.

I am not so comfy with downloading non-legit sources of full length movies because of the virus risks, plus i don't know how to unzip them.

Yeah, that movie was disturbing. There was not a high degree of gore, it was more the psychological implications that were disturbing. Very dark and soul piercing.

The video with Magnotta had a high degree of gore, yet it affected me less than that movie. I suppose that it was due to the fact that the Magnotta video seemed so excessive, so over the top and desperate, that there were few psychological elements to it.

Sure the fact it was created at all is disturbing, but I think you may know what I am getting at.

(I know may sound terrible to some here that a studio movie with no real victim (but in real life there was) would disturb one more that an actual video with an actual victim. But, when a person has seen death they develop certain coping mechanisms)

9InchNails
06-10-2012, 01:45 PM
In the six days since Magnotta's arrest, I've been looking for additional reporting on one aspect of the investigation that seems to have gone silent: From the Mirror (a UK based tabloid considered as MSM)
"French clubber reveals terror after spending two nights with fugitive gay porn star"
www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/cannibal-killer-i-slept-with-luka-rocco-861745

My roots as a journalist immediately made me recognize that, if true, this story has legs. The details and discussion of their alleged time together would merit coverage not only in tabloid publications, but also: MSM throughout Canada, local Paris media, GLBT-focused media and other MSM organizations because, in my opinion, if this is true, this guy has a story to tell.

However this story has completely disappeared.

Thoughts?

I think I've read this story in the french media too but it seems that it's not in my browser history. Anyway, there wasn't much info in the report.

JBean
06-10-2012, 01:47 PM
I read in an MSM report (sorry no link) that he threw his phone in a rubbish bin in the Paris metro. However, the phone was found by a cleaner and used, leading police to think he was still in Paris when he was actually in Berlin.
need a link please.

LadyL
06-10-2012, 01:48 PM
In the six days since Magnotta's arrest, I've been looking for additional reporting on one aspect of the investigation that seems to have gone silent: From the Mirror (a UK based tabloid considered as MSM)
"French clubber reveals terror after spending two nights with fugitive gay porn star"
www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/cannibal-killer-i-slept-with-luka-rocco-861745 (http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/cannibal-killer-i-slept-with-luka-rocco-861745)

My roots as a journalist immediately made me recognize that, if true, this story has legs. The details and discussion of their alleged time together would merit coverage not only in tabloid publications, but also: MSM throughout Canada, local Paris media, GLBT-focused media and other MSM organizations because, in my opinion, if this is true, this guy has a story to tell.

However this story has completely disappeared.

Thoughts?

maybe he is a potential future witness & has been advised not to talk or maybe he's in hiding from all the vulturistic photogs (or maybe he never existed to begin with and the 'police source' was full of it)

Chorley8
06-10-2012, 01:48 PM
Hastings it is not a news source it is potentially in fact likely a primary source in the case a letter of a friend of L.M. or L.M. himself. Of course we can't authenticate it from here (!) in fact my comment was in the form of an enquiry. Anyway the video itself is not from a trusted news source.

Trust me the police are searching for knowledge of L.M.'s movements and his link to other cases I doubt they are dusting off their first year psychology textbooks and discussing nature vs. nurture. But ok I will stick to the thread on that other case to discuss it though I do not see why we can't discuss possible links of L.M. to other cases. Even where he lived blocks away, really? Isn't that what the police are doing?

Bot? Let's all stay calm. There is great pressure in the Canadian media at least to contain this story and keep out all elements that link L.M. to 1. politics even though he sent a threatening letter to the P.M. 2. racist anti-immigrant groups even though he posted on Stormfront etc.3. organized crime and I don't think we only have to think Russian here 4. maybe especially high end prostitutes with high end clients and the potential fall-out if names get named. If you read the Wiki article on L.M.'s girlfriend she claims some high end contacts.

But we don't have to mirror that reluctance here.

GatsbyGrace
06-10-2012, 01:48 PM
In the six days since Magnotta's arrest, I've been looking for additional reporting on one aspect of the investigation that seems to have gone silent: From the Mirror (a UK based tabloid considered as MSM)
"French clubber reveals terror after spending two nights with fugitive gay porn star"
www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/cannibal-killer-i-slept-with-luka-rocco-861745

My roots as a journalist immediately made me recognize that, if true, this story has legs. The details and discussion of their alleged time together would merit coverage not only in tabloid publications, but also: MSM throughout Canada, local Paris media, GLBT-focused media and other MSM organizations because, in my opinion, if this is true, this guy has a story to tell.

However this story has completely disappeared.

Thoughts?

The guy might not be 'out' to his family & I can't think of a worse way to come out ...

"Mom, Dad ... I'm gay & by the way, you're going to be seeing some interviews I did in the news about how I harbored the Butcher of Montreal for 2 nights after I met him in a nightclub."

HastingsChi
06-10-2012, 01:49 PM
I think I've read this story in the french media too but it seems that it's not in my browser history. Anyway, there wasn't much info in the report.

Thanks 9InchNails. Given the sensational nature of the "reporting" of this case, would you agree that the guy who made the two day hookup claim and the details he could share of Magnotta's activities during those two days is something that would get huge media attention?

Sonya610
06-10-2012, 01:49 PM
In fact, the reason I watched the video at all was because it is in line with my profession and this perp is one I care to study a bit, due to his unique profile.

No doubt "Grimm Love" was also watched for professional reasons, Hollywood is the best source of unbiased factual research.

If the full video came out I would watch it. I have a problem watching hard core non-consentual sadism however I doubt the video contains any such thing.

Does anyone know how he met the victim? If not, why is that still such a mystery? I am guessing it was online and LE knows how they met.

GatsbyGrace
06-10-2012, 01:50 PM
Graphic

He obviously practiced on household pets. I cannot see this kid going hunting and dressing large game.

<rsbm>/BBM.

:floorlaugh:

HastingsChi
06-10-2012, 01:51 PM
The guy might not be 'out' to his family & I can't think of a worse way to come out ...

"Mom, Dad ... I'm gay & by the way, you're going to be seeing some interviews I did in the news about how I harbored the Butcher of Montreal for 2 nights after I met him in a nightclub."

The MSM could easily protect his identity (using the proper, ethical sourcing methods to do this) if this was the case. The MSM does this all the time, like when Greta's opinion program interviewed the Anthony juror.

james62
06-10-2012, 01:55 PM
need a link please.

a link has since been posted by 9InchNails.

PAXIMUS
06-10-2012, 01:58 PM
I am very interested in what sort of tools LE found in his apartment, the dismemberment cuts are VERY CLEAN and almost such that you would assume they were done professionally by a surgeon, the body is not all hacked up, the cuts are clean and precise and there IS NO WAY he was able to hack through the bone with the little steak knife he had in the video because he did not dismember at JOINTS he had to have cut through bone on several occasions leading me to believe he at least used a hand saw, since the neighbor did not hear anything I doubt he was using an electrical saws although they do have cordless saws these days that are pretty quiet. But there is no doubt he had more tools than just the steak knife you see in the video and it seems he certainly must have had some experience with dismemberment because it doesnt look like the job of a rookie.

Chorley8
06-10-2012, 01:58 PM
"Canadian police have launched a cold case review on suspicion Magnotta may be a serial killer who has murdered many times".

This is from the article on the French guy who picked him up in Paris it is the Mirror online since someone else has linked to it a few posts back I am hoping it fits into the definition of a trusted news source. To be honest it is not what I myself would call a trusted or official news source but I think it fits the rules here.

GatsbyGrace
06-10-2012, 01:59 PM
Thanks 9InchNails. Given the sensational nature of the "reporting" of this case, would you agree that the guy who made the two day hookup claim and the details he could share of Magnotta's activities during those two days is something that would get huge media attention?

He has no obligation to speak to the media. His obligation ends with telling his story to LE. At least he didn't come out & publicly state he was entertaining bids for his story like the internet cafe employee.

I have a hunch that the French are more tight-lipped about such matters than we Americans are. Can anyone shed any light on this?

Cappuccino
06-10-2012, 02:01 PM
My hunch is this is his first murder, because he made a lot of mistakes. Having said that, if I was LE I would be checking his past movements very carefully for any link with previous murders, because there's always the chance that he got away with a few before and just got sloppy.

deanna82437
06-10-2012, 02:01 PM
I have seen several people state that the authorities have now for certain determined that it is Luka in the video. This is NOT apparent in the edited version and the assumption is that in the unedited version that the authorities have he can be seen. I have found NO reports that indicates this but it has been stated here as fact several times, so can anyone show me a report where it indicates that he can be SEEN in the unedited version and the authorities have FOR CERTAIN tied him to the video, because I dont believe that is the case.

I am looking for stuff myself but not finding anything yet.

I posted this on that last page of the last thread. Catching up AGAIN, sorry if it's been answered already. :blushing:

Originally Posted by susan1122 View Post
A bit of ESP going on there? Yes, it must have blown you away!

About if it was him in the video.....I just hope that they have irrefutable evidence.

Catching up again, but would this be "irrefutable evidence"?

http://www.montrealgazette.com/news/...#ixzz1x35Nl1IN

Quote:
May 30: Viewing of the video at 4 a.m. allowed Montreal police to ascertain the victim was Asian. They linked this to a missing person’s report filed May 28 for 33-year-old Concordia University student Lin, who was last seen on May 24. A close friend of Lin later confirms the identity

Chorley8
06-10-2012, 02:01 PM
"not a rookie" yes Paximus I agree and maybe not just someone who has practiced rather someone who was trained/taught.

Sealuzna
06-10-2012, 02:03 PM
[bbm]

this is like a game of telephone tag IMO & this is why we need to post MSM links
I agree about links, but I think we all understand what basics are true: that Luka left it in the subway and from that point on it was not moved on Luka's person. Whether the cleaner who found it then traveled by car or subway train or foot or a mixture of all three, I think it's irrelevant at this point. It's interesting though, but personally I'm focusing on finding evidence that proves guilt beyond reasonable doubt; otherwise I would have spent the time finding a link for you. :)

james62
06-10-2012, 02:03 PM
He has no obligation to speak to the media. His obligation ends with telling his story to LE. At least he didn't come out & publicly state he was entertaining bids for his story like the internet cafe employee.

I have a hunch that the French are more tight-lipped about such matters than we Americans are. Can anyone shed any light on this?

I lived in France for 7 years, and definitely found them to be bigger on privacy than us in the UK at least. There is quite a big barrier between media and private life, and stricter privacy laws than we have here.

Sonya610
06-10-2012, 02:04 PM
Yeah, that movie was disturbing. There was not a high degree of gore, it was more the psychological implications that were disturbing. Very dark and soul piercing.

Back to gay cannibals, the film you mentioned. They are about the happiest friendliest least sadistic folks one could ever meet in those circles. Also IMO the most real online as far as actual incidents go (not that I have any stats, I am sure there have been a whole lot of "accidental" hangings with web cams running as well).

A few years ago I was corresponding with one guy, he was very friendly and sent me several stories (cause I was running a story site at the time). Nice guy, funny, chipper etc.... I am certain he went down that road and he ever came back. He had been with the same partner for 20 years, they found his jeep abandoned.

He was looking for real, much like Armin's "victim", and he found it. I wish him God's Speed as he was a nice guy.

PAXIMUS
06-10-2012, 02:06 PM
"not a rookie" yes Paximus I agree and maybe not just someone who has practiced rather someone who was trained/taught.

Well this isnt the place for my crazy far out theories but I do have some about who and what Luka might really be, what the purpose of this all could be and who he may be working for and trained by. From the sound of your previous posts I think we are on the same page wrt some of that.

livingstone
06-10-2012, 02:06 PM
I believe this was Magnotta's first human kill. I know there are tons who will disagree vehemently with that opinion.

Why do I think that? Because there is no way he could keep quiet. Yes, I know that he hinted at the "Hollywood Sign Murder." I don't buy it. If he did it I believe he would more than hint at it. It would have come out on one of his many posts on the internet.

This guy cannot keep his mouth shut. Not since 2010, only to start hinting at it now.

Of course there is the other side of the coin where people may believe perhaps he did this before and held it in for a later day so that as this unfolds, he keeps his story in the news with other cases coming out.

I still don't see his profile being one that can exercise that kind of willpower, given his narcissistic nature. His tell is that he is impatient to excess, impulsive, and cannot keep his trap shut.

PAXIMUS
06-10-2012, 02:07 PM
I posted this on that last page of the last thread. Catching up AGAIN, sorry if it's been answered already. :blushing:

Originally Posted by susan1122 View Post


Catching up again, but would this be "irrefutable evidence"?

http://www.montrealgazette.com/news/...#ixzz1x35Nl1IN

Quote:

Ok just to clarify so this says they can definitely ID the victim from the unedited version but there is NO indication that Luka can be seen in that video for certain right?

girlinblue
06-10-2012, 02:08 PM
No doubt "Grimm Love" was also watched for professional reasons, Hollywood is the best source of unbiased factual research.

If the full video came out I would watch it. I have a problem watching hard core non-consentual sadism however I doubt the video contains any such thing.

Does anyone know how he met the victim? If not, why is that still such a mystery? I am guessing it was online and LE knows how they met.

Has anyone been able to verify anything on that Craigslist ad for "a movie I'm making" that was posted threads ago? I don't think that's how they met, but I was just curious if there was any other info on it.

It's so hard to discern what is truth and what isn't here. I don't know how they met but I don't think it was a situation where, say, it was a week before this happened. It was reported that they had been dating and one was upset the other had moved on to someone else. If Jun Lin was new, foreign, and lonely, there could've been so many possibilities.

The most depressing thing about this case is that it seems like Jun Lin just needed a friend.

PAXIMUS
06-10-2012, 02:08 PM
i posted this on that last page of the last thread. Catching up again, sorry if it's been answered already. :blushing:

Originally posted by susan1122 view post


catching up again, but would this be "irrefutable evidence"?

http://www.montrealgazette.com/news/...#ixzz1x35nl1in

quote:

your link in here says page not found by the way.

Sonya610
06-10-2012, 02:11 PM
I still don't see his profile being one that can exercise that kind of willpower, given his narcissistic nature. His tell is that he is impatient to excess, impulsive, and cannot keep his trap shut.

You think he is a narcissist too? I get the suspicion you are in the field of mental health. If he managed to kill and dismember a few before this it would be surprising, but then again he had an agenda didn't he? To become infamous!

It is possible that he did a few before this video. One kill does not make a serial killer. He could have shown restraint. He apparently planned and advertised the video weeks in advance. Plus the video was really clean, really really clean. Not the work of a first timer.

girlinblue
06-10-2012, 02:12 PM
Am not concerned about the unedited version other than to hope it exists for purposes of the criminal proceeding. An unedited version would help to assure conviction.

If an unedited version existed and found its way to the internet, I would not personally view it. The 10 minute version was quite enough for my professional interest.

In fact, the reason I watched the video at all was because it is in line with my profession and this perp is one I care to study a bit, due to his unique profile.

When I said "see it" I meant see it hit the light of day. I watched the sampler a few times, although not completely through. That said, I am burnt out on this and wouldn't watch it. I've no interest in seeing the actual kill.

I don't judge anyone for watching anything on the internet. People are different.

LadyL
06-10-2012, 02:19 PM
I agree about links, but I think we all understand what basics are true: that Luka left it in the subway and from that point on it was not moved on Luka's person. Whether the cleaner who found it then traveled by car or subway train or foot or a mixture of all three, I think it's irrelevant at this point. It's interesting though, but personally I'm focusing on finding evidence that proves guilt beyond reasonable doubt; otherwise I would have spent the time finding a link for you. :)

we can't understand what 'basics are true' if different info is posted by several different people and not one link accompanies that info comprendez vous?

the person posting the information has the responsibility to provide the MSM link, according to WS TOS, so you won't be finding the link for me, per se, but for the mods and all people (members & guests) who read this thread and then continue to propogate the rumours they read

there are also legal implications to think about

this site is about responsible sleuthing but I'm sure you must already know that from thoroughly reading the TOS and the mods warnings posted at the beginning of every thread

Chorley8
06-10-2012, 02:22 PM
Discussion here on the trial: one problem they will have is controlling L.M. at the trial. There will be a blackout or something will happen first.

Some years ago a Quebec politician was arrested for sex with young girls he said ok he was going to name everything he knew about everyone in politico-land in Canada. The case was dropped.

Since L.M. is likely to name names real or imagined they will have to find some way to control him.

I don't think it is his first murder but I think he is very angry now and recently and not just at his mother. Many of the exposes on CSIS, Mossad, the CIA have been from disenchanted former employees. I get a sense of that here that he is would like to take others down with him and he is angry about something much more recent.

Actually and although I meant that just for comparison is there any chance of that, that L.M. has a relationship to that other shady world, intelligence. All the secret police orgs. hire and protect bizarre people at times for example if they were investigating snuff films etc.

FootballMom
06-10-2012, 02:22 PM
O... M... G... I spent about 10 hours last night putting our collective timelines, sockpuppet info, MSM reports, links, etc. into a spreadsheet... I had a bad link for one of the items so I did a search...

I AM KINDA PIZZED (and very tired) so bare with me... I discovered that our work is not only being ripped off it is being pulled DIRECTLY from our postings (at least they identify our user names) and uploaded to another website!

Is this just news to me or did everyone know that there is another sleuthing website out there that does this????

I know WBS is open to all to browse and that some of our peeps do use other sites but this just... I dunno... I kinda feel violated because it is so blatant.

deanna82437
06-10-2012, 02:23 PM
your link in here says page not found by the way.

I see that when I went back to check if it mentioned Luka.

The page WAS there! Honest!! :what:

PAXIMUS
06-10-2012, 02:23 PM
Thank you to Facie who sent me this:


http://www.cbs12.com/news/top-storie.../vid_722.shtml
MONTREAL -- Canadian police say video footage from the killing and dismembering of a Chinese student seems to show the suspect eating the body.

Montreal Police Cmdr. Ian Lafreniere said Tuesday that police have not been able to conclusively confirm what was seen on the video - that suspect Luka Magnotta did eat parts of the body.

MONDAY: Man suspected of killing lover, mailing body parts to politicians is arrested in Berlin

Lafreniere said "as gross and as graphic it could be, yes, it was seen on the video."

Magnotta was arrested in Berlin on Monday, and police in Germany said Tuesday he told authorities he will not fight extradition.






The BOLDED parts indicates to me that YES they can SEE SOMEONE eating parts but they CANNOT CONFIRM it is MAGNOTTA so this, to me, answers the question that they cannot directly tie him to that video conclusively and his face is never shown as such.

Cappuccino
06-10-2012, 02:24 PM
Some years ago a Quebec politician was arrested for sex with young girls he said ok he was going to name everything he knew about everyone in politico-land in Canada. The case was dropped.

Link please?

Jujercu
06-10-2012, 02:25 PM
Has anyone been able to verify anything on that Craigslist ad for "a movie I'm making" that was posted threads ago? I don't think that's how they met, but I was just curious if there was any other info on it.

It's so hard to discern what is truth and what isn't here. I don't know how they met but I don't think it was a situation where, say, it was a week before this happened. It was reported that they had been dating and one was upset the other had moved on to someone else. If Jun Lin was new, foreign, and lonely, there could've been so many possibilities.

The most depressing thing about this case is that it seems like Jun Lin just needed a friend.
There were 2 CL ads that were posted in here...the first one was a guy in LMs area looking for a small dog a few days before the murder. I responded to it asking if they had found what they were looking for and to let me know if I could assist them in finding a local shelter that might have what they are looking for. I never got an answer. I sent the response after LM had been arrested.

The second CL ad you are talking about..the one asking for someone to make a fun movie with no money being exchanged ...I didn't feel comfortable responding to that one for obvious reasons...but someone in the thread did and also..never got a response to date. This was also done after LM had been arrested.

Those are the facts...

LadyL
06-10-2012, 02:25 PM
I lived in France for 7 years, and definitely found them to be bigger on privacy than us in the UK at least. There is quite a big barrier between media and private life, and stricter privacy laws than we have here.

yep, that's why many big celebrities have homes there ...

PAXIMUS
06-10-2012, 02:25 PM
O... M... G... I spent about 10 hours last night putting our collective timelines, sockpuppet info, MSM reports, links, etc. into a spreadsheet... I had a bad link for one of the items so I did a search...

I AM KINDA PIZZED (and very tired) so bare with me... I discovered that our work is not only being ripped off it is being pulled DIRECTLY from our postings (at least they identify our user names) and uploaded to another website!

Is this just news to me or did everyone know that there is another sleuthing website out there that does this????

I know WBS is open to all to browse and that some of our peeps do use other sites but this just... I dunno... I kinda feel violated because it is so blatant.
Whose stuff did they hijack?

livingstone
06-10-2012, 02:26 PM
Back to gay cannibals, the film you mentioned. They are about the happiest friendliest least sadistic folks one could ever meet in those circles. Also IMO the most real online as far as actual incidents go (not that I have any stats, I am sure there have been a whole lot of "accidental" hangings with web cams running as well).

A few years ago I was corresponding with one guy, he was very friendly and sent me several stories (cause I was running a story site at the time). Nice guy, funny, chipper etc.... I am certain he went down that road and he ever came back. He had been with the same partner for 20 years, they found his jeep abandoned.

He was looking for real, much like Armin's "victim", and he found it. I wish him God's Speed as he was a nice guy.

A person TRULY and SOBERLY resigned to their chosen fate has a certain resolve and peace with that decision. May not even indicate mental illness, (hence your contact for the story?) but certain desires. Desires I do not completely understand but yet that reflect some part of human nature. (even my own) That scares me sometimes. You know what I mean?

If we stop and take an honest evaluation of our own heart it should terrify us. If not, we are lying to ourselves. To deny that it exists, is a form mental illness, IMHO. The point is to acknowledge and control such portions of our nature.

Most will not turn into murder, however, murder is not just a physical act. There are plenty who passively/aggressively and like a drip, drip, drip......slowly suffocate and kill those around them. Never to murder with weapons, but with behavior that causes a death of sorts.

I have more understanding for the actions of gay cannibal with a willing participant, than for the aforementioned who never physically killed a single human bieng.

Warning signs to me regarding this Magnotta video are comments with this sort of tone "he doth protest too much."

PAXIMUS
06-10-2012, 02:27 PM
Discussion here on the trial: one problem they will have is controlling L.M. at the trial. There will be a blackout or something will happen first.

Some years ago a Quebec politician was arrested for sex with young girls he said ok he was going to name everything he knew about everyone in politico-land in Canada. The case was dropped.

Since L.M. is likely to name names real or imagined they will have to find some way to control him.

I don't think it is his first murder but I think he is very angry now and recently and not just at his mother. Many of the exposes on CSIS, Mossad, the CIA have been from disenchanted former employees. I get a sense of that here that he is would like to take others down with him and he is angry about something much more recent.

Actually and although I meant that just for comparison is there any chance of that, that L.M. has a relationship to that other shady world, intelligence. All the secret police orgs. hire and protect bizarre people at times for example if they were investigating snuff films etc.

It is common when a big scandal breaks that people who suggest they are going to talk either have charges dropped or are found with TWO BULLET holes in their head and a suicide note next to them lol.

Sonya610
06-10-2012, 02:28 PM
The song was stuck in my head; after much googling I found it.

Interesting and meaningful lyrics. Makes me wanna give that sick pup a hug (if he hadn't been snuffing kittens of course). The mental health experts might see a bit of symbolism in this.

New Order -True Faith (Lyrics) - YouTube

scapa
06-10-2012, 02:29 PM
I can think of two possible reasons: one, the guy is scared and has disappeared to avoid being deluged by the press, or two, there's no story to tell beyond a two evening sexual tryst.

Or the guy has hired an agent/publicist and is negotiating for the highest bidder. I can already hear the creak of lurid details being ground into newsprint...

s

Sealuzna
06-10-2012, 02:30 PM
we can't understand what 'basics are true' if different info is posted by several different people and not one link accompanies that info comprendez vous?

the person posting the information has the responsibility to provide the MSM link, according to WS TOS, so you won't be finding the link for me, per se, but for the mods and all people (members & guests) who read this thread and then continue to propogate the rumours they read

there are also legal implications to think about

this site is about responsible sleuthing but I'm sure you must already know that from thoroughly reading the TOS and the mods warnings posted at the beginning of every threadI guess I'm just a little confused about how often we have to keep repeating links to stuff that I honestly believed had become common knowledge on this forum for some time now.

I think I've been very good at providing links and respecting the TOS, but if all it takes is a minor error about whether a refuse bin was on a moving subway car or on a platform in the Metro to get a talking down from a fellow poster, I'll refrain from commenting at all.

Have a nice day.

prima.facie
06-10-2012, 02:30 PM
O... M... G... I spent about 10 hours last night putting our collective timelines, sockpuppet info, MSM reports, links, etc. into a spreadsheet... I had a bad link for one of the items so I did a search...

I AM KINDA PIZZED (and very tired) so bare with me... I discovered that our work is not only being ripped off it is being pulled DIRECTLY from our postings (at least they identify our user names) and uploaded to another website!

Is this just news to me or did everyone know that there is another sleuthing website out there that does this????

I know WBS is open to all to browse and that some of our peeps do use other sites but this just... I dunno... I kinda feel violated because it is so blatant.

what exactly was taken and where?

not_my_kids
06-10-2012, 02:30 PM
I believe this was Magnotta's first human kill. I know there are tons who will disagree vehemently with that opinion.

Why do I think that? Because there is no way he could keep quiet. Yes, I know that he hinted at the "Hollywood Sign Murder." I don't buy it. If he did it I believe he would more than hint at it. It would have come out on one of his many posts on the internet.

This guy cannot keep his mouth shut. Not since 2010, only to start hinting at it now.

Of course there is the other side of the coin where people may believe perhaps he did this before and held it in for a later day so that as this unfolds, he keeps his story in the news with other cases coming out.

I still don't see his profile being one that can exercise that kind of willpower, given his narcissistic nature. His tell is that he is impatient to excess, impulsive, and cannot keep his trap shut.

I would have to say that I am inclined to agree. At first, I felt it wasnt his first kill, then I changed my mind to thinking it was, and I've gone back and forth a couple times since. I've finally settled on the opinion that this was his first human kill. I agree that he couldn't shut up about anything he did, and plenty of things he didn't do.

The only way that he would have been able to keep quiet about another murder that he committed would have been if it were shameful in his mind, and I'm not quite sure what would be considered shameful to someone like him.

GatsbyGrace
06-10-2012, 02:35 PM
O... M... G... I spent about 10 hours last night putting our collective timelines, sockpuppet info, MSM reports, links, etc. into a spreadsheet... I had a bad link for one of the items so I did a search...

I AM KINDA PIZZED (and very tired) so bare with me... I discovered that our work is not only being ripped off it is being pulled DIRECTLY from our postings (at least they identify our user names) and uploaded to another website!

Is this just news to me or did everyone know that there is another sleuthing website out there that does this????

I know WBS is open to all to browse and that some of our peeps do use other sites but this just... I dunno... I kinda feel violated because it is so blatant.

First of all, WOW! 10 Hours?? Can't wait to see what you've come up with!

That sucks about the other site (can you name it, or is that against the rules?). If you think about it, it's kinda funny ... most of LM's 'blog' posts were plagarized from other sources. Do you think the people who are ripping off WS posts under the guise of 'sleuthing' realize they're doing the same thing? It's like life imitating ... life? IDK. :waitasec:

prima.facie
06-10-2012, 02:36 PM
self editing....

Cappuccino
06-10-2012, 02:37 PM
The song was stuck in my head; after much googling I found it.

Interesting and meaningful lyrics. Makes me wanna give that sick pup a hug (if he hadn't been snuffing kittens of course).

New Order -True Faith (Lyrics) - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2VAIamFKtI0)

I've always loved New Order, and I hate the fact that one of their best songs is now associated with this horrible murder.

Streets
06-10-2012, 02:37 PM
Questions.

1. If LE has a full length, unedited video, where did they get it?
2. I read awhile back in the thread that one of LM's fake accounts posted a "hypothetical" question similar to "If someone were to meet me through an app and kill me, could they just erase the app from my phone and no-one would know?" I don't know how to find that post, but that makes me think that they met through some phone dating app, and not craigslist.

livingstone
06-10-2012, 02:38 PM
You think he is a narcissist too? I get the suspicion you are in the field of mental health. If he managed to kill and dismember a few before this it would be surprising, but then again he had an agenda didn't he? To become infamous!

It is possible that he did a few before this video. One kill does not make a serial killer. He could have shown restraint. He apparently planned and advertised the video weeks in advance. Plus the video was really clean, really really clean. Not the work of a first timer.

Yes, like you I do see narcissism.

I agree with you 100% that it is possible this perp has had a human kill prior to Lin. 100%. I just do not think so.

Very good point that this perp did show a degree of restraint ie. the advertizing. That is noteworthy. But, this was prior to and part of the foreplay leading to the climax of the kill. At the point of climax he is acting like a Chimp, (picture that) complete with ball handling. Kooky.

Ok, yes, the cuts are very professional in appearance. VERY.

But, there are things I can do the first time and do them well if I put my mind to it. And, we do not know that he did not practice on dogs too. Or iof there were perhaps MANY animal victims. I would say the if one could master the skill of dismemberment on animals, it is possible to translate that to a larger subject. Yes? Not possible?

not_my_kids
06-10-2012, 02:38 PM
I would love to be offended, and I would be much more offended IF lots of us weren't using information gathered by others, like from the For Great Justice facebook page. As long as they identify us, and are actually trying to do the same thing we are (make some sense of it) then I'm alright with it. Public domain and all, and at least they aren't trying to pass it all off as their own...there are other sites that do that.

girlinblue
06-10-2012, 02:42 PM
Questions.

1. If LE has a full length, unedited video, where did they get it?
2. I read awhile back in the thread that one of LM's fake accounts posted a "hypothetical" question similar to "If someone were to meet me through an app and kill me, could they just erase the app from my phone and no-one would know?" I don't know how to find that post, but that makes me think that they met through some phone dating app, and not craigslist.


Sounds like Grindr. Didn't think of the app possibility!

Jujercu
06-10-2012, 02:43 PM
Yes, like you I do see narcissism.

I agree with you 100% that it is possible this perp has had a human kill prior to Lin. 100%. I just do not think so.

Very good point that this perp did show a degree of restraint ie. the advertizing. That is noteworthy. But, this was prior to and part of the foreplay leading to the climax of the kill. At the point of climax he is acting like a Chimp, (picture that) complete with ball handling. Kooky.

Ok, yes, the cuts are very professional in appearance. VERY.

But, there are things I can do the first time and do them well if I put my mind to it. And, we do not know that he did not practice on dogs too. Or iof there were perhaps MANY animal victims. I would say the if one could master the skill of dismemberment on animals, it is possible to translate that to a larger subject. Yes? Not possible?

Sonya and Livingstone...the first thing I saw was narcissism..but I have a little experience with narcissism with someone very close in my personal life..so that stood out to me right away.

Sonya610
06-10-2012, 02:46 PM
self editing....

Self edited 1 second too late. Your comment implies killing small animals isn't a problem. Okay then.

nike
06-10-2012, 02:48 PM
I would have to say that I am inclined to agree. At first, I felt it wasnt his first kill, then I changed my mind to thinking it was, and I've gone back and forth a couple times since. I've finally settled on the opinion that this was his first human kill. I agree that he couldn't shut up about anything he did, and plenty of things he didn't do.

The only way that he would have been able to keep quiet about another murder that he committed would have been if it were shameful in his mind, and I'm not quite sure what would be considered shameful to someone like him.

With his 30th birthday coming up next month, maybe he thought his modeling career, and thus his life, was over. This murder might have been an "F-YOU" to the world that didn't give him what he wanted.

livingstone
06-10-2012, 02:50 PM
I would have to say that I am inclined to agree. At first, I felt it wasnt his first kill, then I changed my mind to thinking it was, and I've gone back and forth a couple times since. I've finally settled on the opinion that this was his first human kill. I agree that he couldn't shut up about anything he did, and plenty of things he didn't do.

The only way that he would have been able to keep quiet about another murder that he committed would have been if it were shameful in his mind, and I'm not quite sure what would be considered shameful to someone like him.


Yeah, I went back and forth too. Just can't see him keeping the trap shut.

I know that we have no true idea of the actual truth of the matter. Could turn out that surprisingly he was able to keep his mouth shut. if so, my whole theory will have to be adjusted. Uhhhhh, won't be the first time.

You know what is annoying???

The MSM misreporting any potential connections as almost like they are connected. Then when LE is quoted they only say "This is standard with unsolved murders with similar MO's"

For example the dismembered body in Miami, you know the parts found in garbage bags in the water? Well, in Miami dismemberment is not unheard of. In fact a huge percentage of the people who live in Miami come from cultures where dismemberment is quite common. But the MSM reports is as if already there is DEFINITELY, going to be connection.

Just adds to the sensationalism. And, many some tend to run with that.

Gotta wait and see huh?

9InchNails
06-10-2012, 02:50 PM
Thanks 9InchNails. Given the sensational nature of the "reporting" of this case, would you agree that the guy who made the two day hookup claim and the details he could share of Magnotta's activities during those two days is something that would get huge media attention?

Sure, I agree. What I found strange (or maybe not?) is that french media seems to completely have forgotten about LM now. I know he has been arrested and it has been proved that he spent only three or four days in Paris but I would have expected further coverage of the story especially as media love this kind of sensational crimes. And I'm sure if the guy who hooked up with LM was willing to talk some media would be very eager to report what he has to say so I guess he doesn't want to be in the media or had been asked by LE to remain silent about this.

Oh and while we talk about french media, someone stated in the last thread that a leg had been discovered in a park in Paris on thursday. I don't know if someone already shared this info but the leg is one of a woman. Local media stated that it had probably not stayed very long in the park as it would have been discovered earlier but it was in a state of decomposition. But I don't think it is related to LM's stay in Paris.

http://paris-ile-de-france.france3.fr/info/une-jambe-retrouvee-dans-le-bois-de-vincennes-74322005.html

LadyL
06-10-2012, 02:50 PM
I guess I'm just a little confused about how often we have to keep repeating links to stuff that I honestly believed had become common knowledge on this forum for some time now.

I think I've been very good at providing links and respecting the TOS, but if all it takes is a minor error about whether a refuse bin was on a moving subway car or on a platform in the Metro to get a talking down from a fellow poster, I'll refrain from commenting at all.

Have a nice day.

when different people are posting different things, then it's not common knowledge to me

your last sentence in which you spoke about looking for actual evidence of murder 'instead of finding a link for me' struck me as derogatory & I took offence but I shouldn't have responded so harshly

I apologize and do hope you continue posting

:truce:

Sonya610
06-10-2012, 02:52 PM
Yes, like you I do see narcissism.

I agree with you 100% that it is possible this perp has had a human kill prior to Lin. 100%. I just do not think so.

Very good point that this perp did show a degree of restraint ie. the advertizing. That is noteworthy. But, this was prior to and part of the foreplay leading to the climax of the kill. At the point of climax he is acting like a Chimp, (picture that) complete with ball handling. Kooky.

Ok, yes, the cuts are very professional in appearance. VERY.

But, there are things I can do the first time and do them well if I put my mind to it. And, we do not know that he did not practice on dogs too. Or iof there were perhaps MANY animal victims. I would say the if one could master the skill of dismemberment on animals, it is possible to translate that to a larger subject. Yes? Not possible?

Acting like a chimp? The guy was making wussy ice pick motions. He was not comfortable with violence.

As far as whether he was practicing on dogs I don't want to go there okay? Some people are freaked about gay porn, some about dismemberment videos, some freaked out about obvious facts in the case, no one said ANYTHING about dog killing or mutilation and for me that is out of bounds and offensive.

There is NO reason to think that fits into this case so don't go there. The other offensive topics ARE relevant but the torturing of dogs has no place in this discussion.

PAXIMUS
06-10-2012, 02:52 PM
Self edited 1 second too late. Your comment implies killing small animals isn't a problem. Okay then.

What in the world is that about, who implied killing small animals is ok? I saw the comment and didnt see that.

scapa
06-10-2012, 02:59 PM
Acting like a chimp? The guy was making wussy ice pick motions. He was not comfortable with violence.

As far as whether he was practicing on dogs I don't want to go there okay? Some people are freaked about gay porn, some about dismemberment videos, some freaked out about obvious facts in the case, no one said ANYTHING about dog killing or mutilation and for me that is out of bounds and offensive.

There is NO reason to think that fits into this case so don't go there. The other offensive topics ARE relevant but the torturing of dogs has no place in this discussion.

Was the dog (or dog-like creature) in the video ever identified or located?

s

Chorley8
06-10-2012, 03:01 PM
Yes, like you I do see narcissism.

I agree with you 100% that it is possible this perp has had a human kill prior to Lin. 100%. I just do not think so.

Very good point that this perp did show a degree of restraint ie. the advertizing. That is noteworthy. But, this was prior to and part of the foreplay leading to the climax of the kill. At the point of climax he is acting like a Chimp, (picture that) complete with ball handling. Kooky.

Ok, yes, the cuts are very professional in appearance. VERY.

But, there are things I can do the first time and do them well if I put my mind to it. And, we do not know that he did not practice on dogs too. Or if there were perhaps MANY animal victims. I would say the if one could master the skill of dismemberment on animals, it is possible to translate that to a larger subject. Yes? Not possible?

Can't answer but your comment is a good one. Also your comment on the chimp is interesting I have not watched it(I am NOT against watching it though) but compare the last scene in the New Order video here:

New Order - True Faith - Video Dailymotion

In the video the figure watching the combattants below appears to me made of cut meat, steaks. At one point he/she takes three plastic shapes and tries to balance them one on top another. Can anyone here read sign language? I think the person signing in the video is doing the lyrics but it would be interesting to know if there is any additional "text". Maybe you can tell me if you think there is a commonality between L.M.'s final "sequence" and the final sequence in the film.

dallydilly
06-10-2012, 03:02 PM
Was the dog (or dog-like creature) in the video ever identified or located?

s

Nope, nor been mentioned at all :( I beleive it was a puppy, more than likely starved for awhile.

PAXIMUS
06-10-2012, 03:02 PM
Was the dog (or dog-like creature) in the video ever identified or located?

s

Not that I know of, it was a dog not a dog like creature and it was a puppy and he is a disgusting piece of crap for putting it on the bed and letting it eat what it did.

livingstone
06-10-2012, 03:02 PM
Acting like a chimp? The guy was making wussy ice pick motions. He was not comfortable with violence.

As far as whether he was practicing on dogs I don't want to go there okay? Some people are freaked about gay porn, some about dismemberment videos, some freaked out about obvious facts in the case, no one said ANYTHING about dog killing or mutilation and for me that is out of bounds and offensive in context to this crime.

There is NO reason to think that fits into this case so don't go there. The other offensive topics ARE relevant but the torturing of dogs has no place in this discussion.


Once the video got to the dismemberment portion, what I saw was frenzied, animalistic, Chimp like behavior. Perhaps you did not see it in that way. OK.

As far as I am concerned the Kitten videos suggest to me there could have been other species practiced on as well. That to me is relevant as far as potential charges, particularly regarding the dog in the video. If something nefarious happened to that dog, I would like to see that added to the charges. I am sure the Animal Activists who have been pursuing this person for 2 years would like that too.

PAXIMUS
06-10-2012, 03:04 PM
Nope, nor been mentioned at all :( I beleive it was a puppy, more than likely starved for awhile.

Yeap, I think he starved it for a while because it was clearly very hungry when he put it on the bed, oh did that outrage me.

Sonya610
06-10-2012, 03:04 PM
Was the dog (or dog-like creature) in the video ever identified or located?

s

Yes there was dog in the video. No word about where the dog is.

There were also babies in several photographs, I would suspect discussing how those babies could have been tortured or killed and mutilated (without proof) would also be out of bounds if the ideas strike some as offensive and obscene.

dallydilly
06-10-2012, 03:06 PM
Yeap, I think he starved it for a while because it was clearly very hungry when he put it on the bed, oh did that outrage me.

Yes I wanted to say something along them lines, but didn't know how to put it :blushing:

FootballMom
06-10-2012, 03:06 PM
Whose stuff did they hijack?

They require you to register to access more pages, links, etc... BUT I can see their freakin copy & paste job of YOUR posts, Wangtangkiki, thedissent and mine...

james62
06-10-2012, 03:07 PM
The song was stuck in my head; after much googling I found it.

Interesting and meaningful lyrics. Makes me wanna give that sick pup a hug (if he hadn't been snuffing kittens of course). The mental health experts might see a bit of symbolism in this.

New Order -True Faith (Lyrics) - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2VAIamFKtI0)


It's really pretty disturbing (and sad) when you listen to the lyrics. I've known this song for years, but this is the first time I've listened to it since watching the video.

Agreed the mental health experts might indeed see symbolism here. There's just too much stuff in there.

LadyL
06-10-2012, 03:07 PM
O... M... G... I spent about 10 hours last night putting our collective timelines, sockpuppet info, MSM reports, links, etc. into a spreadsheet... I had a bad link for one of the items so I did a search...

I AM KINDA PIZZED (and very tired) so bare with me... I discovered that our work is not only being ripped off it is being pulled DIRECTLY from our postings (at least they identify our user names) and uploaded to another website!

Is this just news to me or did everyone know that there is another sleuthing website out there that does this????

I know WBS is open to all to browse and that some of our peeps do use other sites but this just... I dunno... I kinda feel violated because it is so blatant.

alert the mods so they can investigate

girlinblue
06-10-2012, 03:07 PM
Once the video got to the dismemberment portion, what I saw was frenzied, animalistic, Chimp like behavior. Perhaps you did not see it in that way. OK.

As far as I am concerned the Kitten videos suggest to me there could have been other species practiced on as well. That to me is relevant as far as potential charges, particularly regarding the dog in the video. If something nefarious happened to that dog, I would like to see that added to the charges. I am sure the Animal Activists who have been pursuing this person for 2 years would like that too.

Yeah, see, I didn't see that at all. It was very stiff and mechanical to me. Not rushed, not frantic. Just going through motions. He really didn't do this for the act of murder, for the pleasure of necrophilia or dismemberment. It was all about becoming a name. What he did to Jun Lin was not the objective.

I don't know. I know we're all going to see it differently.

9InchNails
06-10-2012, 03:08 PM
He has no obligation to speak to the media. His obligation ends with telling his story to LE. At least he didn't come out & publicly state he was entertaining bids for his story like the internet cafe employee.

I have a hunch that the French are more tight-lipped about such matters than we Americans are. Can anyone shed any light on this?

I do not read american media very often so I'm not sure I can compare but I'd say french are not that tight-lipped. Whenever there's a high profile crime here you always read what the neighbours or acquaintances of the victim/perp have to say.

A good example is the Dupont de Ligonnès case which had very important coverage in the french media last year. Xavier Dupont de Ligonnès and his family were reported missing and several days later, the bodies of his wife, three kids and dog were found under their terrace, a discovery which was followed by an unsuccessful manhunt to find XDdL. Their neighbours, classmates, coworkers and families all shared their memories/theories with the media and an ex-mistress of XDdL also came forward. Family members also made public letters that were sent by the suspect before their disappearance... So I wouldn't say french are so tight-lipped ;)

dallydilly
06-10-2012, 03:08 PM
Yes there was dog in the video. No word about where the dog is.

There were also babies in several photographs, I would suspect discussing how those babies could have been tortured or killed and mutilated (without proof) would also be out of bounds if the ideas strike some as offensive and obscene.

I am assuming that the children were his nieces/nephews....least I hope so, really don't wanna go down that route. Although him pictured cradling children sickened me to my stomach.

ccaudill0062
06-10-2012, 03:09 PM
I don't know if anyone has seen them, but I though it might help anyways. There is a guy who argued with Luka on the internet back in 2007-2008, he had made the videos private but with what happened made them public again (it will have a recent posting date but that's b/c they was just put back on, but you can see there's older comments from like four years ago), and he also made a new video on that account reading some of the old e-mails luka sent from various accounts (acting as others or fans) to him back at that time saying that LM was to be praised as a prince and loved cupcakes, would forgive them if they helped him sell his shirts to make money for a boat to travel to Bahamas, and etc.. His account on youtube is bloglops. It really gives a interesting look into his personality. Also on the videos are some comments from supposedly "luka fans" which he (and I do too) believe was posted by LM himself, which I listed below with some reasons why I think their from accounts made by him. But maybe you guys can dig a little deeper and find some more stuff out. Hope it helps.

canadiancccp (some bernardo && homolka vids && luka pics)
simplythebestyes1 (comments defending luka)
LittleFuryThings (not sure about this one, but b/c of the name && defending comments about luka)
pricelessstud19 (comments praising luka as prine && refernces michael jackson)
liquid666liquid (has I love luka as title && defends luka in comments
megaman666megaman (defends luka && calls him prince)

dallydilly
06-10-2012, 03:10 PM
Yeah, see, I didn't see that at all. It was very stiff and mechanical to me. Not rushed, not frantic. Just going through motions. He really didn't do this for the act of murder, for the pleasure of necrophilia or dismemberment. It was all about becoming a name. What he did to Jun Lin was not the objective.

I don't know. I know we're all going to see it differently.

I agree, it was like "what can I do to this guy to cause the most shock ever!"

Sonya610
06-10-2012, 03:14 PM
Once the video got to the dismemberment portion, what I saw was frenzied, animalistic, Chimp like behavior. Perhaps you did not see it in that way. OK.

As far as I am concerned the Kitten videos suggest to me there could have been other species practiced on as well. That to me is relevant as far as potential charges, particularly regarding the dog in the video. If something nefarious happened to that dog, I would like to see that added to the charges. I am sure the Animal Activists who have been pursuing this person for 2 years would like that too.

There was nothing frenzied about it, the ice pick stabs were hesitant at best. It was part of the show with no real emotion.

There won't be any animal cruelty charges added, that would just demean the human victim (which explains why crush films are made in Russia and China and no one gives darn, and why millions of companion animals are killed in U.S. "shelters" each year without receiving attention in the MSM). I didn't watch the kitten killing videos because I can't deal with that sort of thing, in case it isn't obvious I get very emotional on that topic.

shanaya
06-10-2012, 03:15 PM
Answer:
Here is the way this thing looks: How can an apparition show itself, if it has no self?

That is the answer. The narcissist has no self, no sense of who he is. There are no

core values, no code ethics, an empty shell. Is this clearer now? To experience a

narcissist, to feel for a narcissist, to put faith in a narcissist, is one life lesson you will

not forget. NO- Emphatically! This is a person who will lie to gain whatever he needs

to feed his supply source of endless need. The need of unconditional love, admiration,

kudos, adoration, approval, applause, more, more, more. Then, you? You are his

supply. You are a mirror on the wall; meant only to show him his perfect image. You ?

You are gone because he will suck the life out of you. That man who so charmed you,

loved you,cherished and adored you, now finds no value in you, and he is gone. Truth,

no truth. The most consumate of actors. He will tell you he has been faithfull always,

when he has never. He will lie, over, and over, he cares nothing for your tears.

He has no empathy. This I tell you..

1.) -RUN-NOW-DON'T-LOOK-BACK-EVER-KNOW HIM WELL THROUGH THE MISTAKE OF OTHERS LIKE ME.

2.)-DON'T PUT FAITH IN OPINIONS OF HIM MADE BY OTHERS. HE IS CHARMING AND CAN BE VERY PERSUASIVE.

3.)-DON'T WORK ON ASSUMPTION- THE BEST PSYCHIATRISTS HAVE DIFFICULTY WITH THIS DIAGNOSIS, AND THEY HAVE TOOLS-SUCH AS-THE A.P.A. BIBLE- DSM IV [Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders]

4.)-WRITE IT DOWN. NOW, GO WRITE DOWN EACH AND EVERY FAULT, YOU KNOW HE HAS MANY. LIST ALL THE INCONSISTANT BEHAVIOR, THE LIES YOU'RE AWARE OF. HIS JEALOSY(DON'T BE FLATTERED BY IT, YOU'RE AN OBJECT) HIS EMPTY CORE THAT CAN'T BE FILLED.

5.)-HIS HIGHS AND HIS LOWS, WILL SUCK THE LIFE OUT OF YOU.

6.) IF YOU HAVE TO THINK OF THE INCEPTION OF THIS RELATIONSHIP-HIS INTENSE NEED OF YOU? THEN REMEMBER IT WAS A PLOY; MEANT ONLY TO LURE YOU, GAIN YOUR APPROVAL, AND THEN ASAULT YOU WITH HIS DARK SIDE.

7.) IF YOU STAY WITH HIM UNDERSTAND THIS; YOU WON'T SURVIVE WITHOUT STRONG SUPPORT AND COUNSELING. YOU WON'T CHANGE HIM. AND NO, HE DOESN'T LOVE YOU-NO. I DON'T WISH TO HURT YOU, I CAN IMAGINE YOUR PAIN. I KNOW YOU ARE STRONG ENOUGH TO LEAVE, EVEN IF YOU THINK NOT.

References

DSM-IV-TR Handbook of Differential Diagnosis

M.D., First, Michael B. , M.D., Frances, Allen , M.D., Pincus, Harold Alan
American Psychiatric Publishing, Inc. (2002)
1000 Wilson Boulevard
Arlington, VA 22209-3901

Malignant self Love

Ph.D. Vaknin, Sam (2007)

Read more: http://wiki.answers.com/Q/How_can_you_get_a_narcissist_to_tell_the_truth#ixz z1xQ3p7xn9

PAXIMUS
06-10-2012, 03:18 PM
Yeah, see, I didn't see that at all. It was very stiff and mechanical to me. Not rushed, not frantic. Just going through motions. He really didn't do this for the act of murder, for the pleasure of necrophilia or dismemberment. It was all about becoming a name. What he did to Jun Lin was not the objective.

I don't know. I know we're all going to see it differently.

Yea I dont see Luka as having the type of compulsion to murder like a Dahmer or Gacy who needed to kill for some strange reason within them, for Luka it was all about the production all for show, his compulsion was more about being known for something, anything, rather than a compulsion to kill and the same could be said about the kittens, I dont think he just killed them because he gets some sort of pleasure from killing animals but rather because it would get people's attention and for the shock value.

livingstone
06-10-2012, 03:20 PM
Can't answer but your comment is a good one. Also your comment on the chimp is interesting I have not watched it(I am NOT against watching it though) but compare the last scene in the New Order video here:

In the video the figure watching the combattants below appears to me made of cut meat, steaks. At one point he/she takes three plastic shapes and tries to balance them one on top another. Can anyone here read sign language? I think the person signing in the video is doing the lyrics but it would be interesting to know if there is any additional "text". Maybe you can tell me if you think there is a commonality between L.M.'s final "sequence" and the final sequence in the film.

Geez, that is strange to see the chimp in the video.

I picked Chimp because that is what he reminded me of without getting to graphic, by the way he handled certain body parts and his excessive overkill. Not the actions of a controlled methodical criminal. Just making actions to add shock value. Like if you gave a Chimp a knife, that' s what he may do.

And his "great escape." Amateur.

BTW, weird video.

No_Stone_Unturned
06-10-2012, 03:22 PM
O... M... G... I spent about 10 hours last night putting our collective timelines, sockpuppet info, MSM reports, links, etc. into a spreadsheet... I had a bad link for one of the items so I did a search...

I AM KINDA PIZZED (and very tired) so bare with me... I discovered that our work is not only being ripped off it is being pulled DIRECTLY from our postings (at least they identify our user names) and uploaded to another website!

Is this just news to me or did everyone know that there is another sleuthing website out there that does this????

I know WBS is open to all to browse and that some of our peeps do use other sites but this just... I dunno... I kinda feel violated because it is so blatant.

No, this is NOT news to many of us here. It has happened before - in the Sonia Varaschin case, in the Audrey Gleave case and perhaps others. It's sad but true.

I haven't bothered to go over to that other sleuthing site lately, but I certainly believe what you say. It's nothing new at all. Sadly!!:banghead:

Jujercu
06-10-2012, 03:22 PM
Was the dog (or dog-like creature) in the video ever identified or located?

s
No we never came to any conclusion about what creature it was...some in this thread think it was a puppy and I am inclined to agree...however it's notable that many other people all over the net (MSM and otherwise) have noted it as other things...a rabbit being one of them. I will surly post the MSM link if I find it again referring to it as anything other than a dog...but I honestly don't remember what article it was. But i have indeed noticed others questioning that it was a canine.

FootballMom
06-10-2012, 03:24 PM
what exactly was taken and where?

Well it IS NOT a MSM website (cause we've established they are the only reliable source of information)... anyway... that being said, I don't know if I am allowed to link to their forum or even if I want to give them the publicity.

I know very well that a significant amount of our efforts were gained through other resources (FB - FGJ for the historical info, MSM, blogs, videos for new info, etc.). A great deal of it was written & pieced together by us from countless resources...

Maybe I'm just being overly sensitive because the fact is we operate in a public community where information is shared... I guess I just feel disappointed. We spent so much time putting this together and someone just copies our posts and puts them onto their forum. If they like our work so much then why not join our efforts?

Sigh... I think I need a nap.

prima.facie
06-10-2012, 03:31 PM
I don't know if anyone has seen them, but I though it might help anyways. There is a guy who argued with Luka on the internet back in 2007-2008, he had made the videos private but with what happened made them public again (it will have a recent posting date but that's b/c they was just put back on, but you can see there's older comments from like four years ago), and he also made a new video on that account reading some of the old e-mails luka sent from various accounts (acting as others or fans) to him back at that time saying that LM was to be praised as a prince and loved cupcakes, would forgive them if they helped him sell his shirts to make money for a boat to travel to Bahamas, and etc.. His account on youtube is bloglops. It really gives a interesting look into his personality. Also on the videos are some comments from supposedly "luka fans" which he (and I do too) believe was posted by LM himself, which I listed below with some reasons why I think their from accounts made by him. But maybe you guys can dig a little deeper and find some more stuff out. Hope it helps.

canadiancccp (some bernardo && homolka vids && luka pics)
simplythebestyes1 (comments defending luka)
LittleFuryThings (not sure about this one, but b/c of the name && defending comments about luka)
pricelessstud19 (comments praising luka as prine && refernces michael jackson)
liquid666liquid (has I love luka as title && defends luka in comments
megaman666megaman (defends luka && calls him prince)



i actually found that and sent to another member for our own personal discussion...i didnt even bother posting here, since we arent allowed to post the YT stuff anymore...

it is actually very ineresting to read and listen to the flame wars between LM and this guy....

prima.facie
06-10-2012, 03:32 PM
Well it IS NOT a MSM website (cause we've established they are the only reliable source of information)... anyway... that being said, I don't know if I am allowed to link to their forum or even if I want to give them the publicity.

I know very well that a significant amount of our efforts were gained through other resources (FB - FGJ for the historical info, MSM, blogs, videos for new info, etc.). A great deal of it was written & pieced together by us from countless resources...

Maybe I'm just being overly sensitive because the fact is we operate in a public community where information is shared... I guess I just feel disappointed. We spent so much time putting this together and someone just copies our posts and puts them onto their forum. If they like our work so much then why not join our efforts?

Sigh... I think I need a nap.

have you contacted WS owners?
i know on another forum im at, if things are "stolen" they have a "legal take down notice" that is sent to the offending site!

livingstone
06-10-2012, 03:33 PM
There was nothing frenzied about it, the ice pick stabs were hesitant at best. It was part of the show with no real emotion.

There won't be any animal cruelty charges added, that would just demean the human victim (which explains why crush films are made in Russia and China and no one gives darn, and why millions of companion animals are killed in U.S. "shelters" each year without receiving attention in the MSM). I didn't watch the kitten killing videos because I can't deal with that sort of thing, in case it isn't obvious I get very emotional on that topic.

To me it seemed frenzied. Of course it is quite acceptable for you to disagree. You know what they say of all our opinions. Like a*******. I for one find that saying to be genius. Wonder who actually first came up with that.

OFF TOPIC>>>>

Incidentally, I worked at a county shelter back in the 80's, became a vegetarian in the 90's. I have several pets, all of which were abused severely at one time. One cat I have has permanent brain damage from 26 bird shots in his body and head, but he is quite happy and healthy now. And have a dog whose collar grew into his neck from owner neglect and I had to have it surgically removed after his rescue.

Also, I was associated with a group (whose name I cannot mention here) in the 90's that had to do with covertly investigating certain actions occurring on factory farms. So, you are preaching to the choir.

But, I understand what you are saying about animals. I did not view the kitten videos. Could'nt.

Chorley8
06-10-2012, 03:33 PM
the video is darker than the song though the lines where he sings When I was a very small boy/Other small boys talked to me/Now that we've grown up together/They're afraid of what they see/ is significant.

It is possible to read the song in an innocuous way but I think the video shows that the writer is suspicious of the extraordinary feeling of liberty the "I" of the song celebrates. Transgression, libertinism, it's true they're potentially dangerous, the slippery slope.

When I first went to university authors especially French were celebrated some like G. Bataille wrote pornographic violent novels like The Eye at the same time they held prestigious jobs in his case as the national director of the museum of anthropology. They were fascinated with human sacrifice in cultures. De Sade was celebrated. I cautiously agree with a previous poster who asked us to look at our own fascination with the case, the element of "spectacle" and the dark primeval emotions even memories the case evokes in our delightful species Homo Sapiens Sapiens (sic)

Not only this case of course.

joe2857
06-10-2012, 03:37 PM
2. I read awhile back in the thread that one of LM's fake accounts posted a "hypothetical" question similar to "If someone were to meet me through an app and kill me, could they just erase the app from my phone and no-one would know?" I don't know how to find that post, but that makes me think that they met through some phone dating app, and not craigslist.

You may be thinking of one of my posts earlier in the thread about someone on the gay discussion forum DataLounge who had posted several messages that made it appear as if he had firsthand knowledge of LM and the crime. That person also posted on DataLounge to ask whether phone apps are traceable. However, those posts were all made in the past few days, after LM's arrest. And the same person has gone on to post several other weird messages on DataLounge that seem to indicate he is just a troll based in Texas who is making stuff up to get attention and has no connections to the case.

livingstone
06-10-2012, 03:39 PM
Sonya and Livingstone...the first thing I saw was narcissism..but I have a little experience with narcissism with someone very close in my personal life..so that stood out to me right away.

Just saw this.

Yeah, if you know someone who is a narcissist, you can spot it a mile off. Same here with someone close to me.

PAXIMUS
06-10-2012, 03:39 PM
Friend of mine made a new FB page to try and get some answers about the puppy please spread it around so we can get some attention called to where the puppy is.

http://www.facebook.com/pages/What-Happened-to-Luka-Magnottas-Puppy/437610502929876

ccaudill0062
06-10-2012, 03:39 PM
i actually found that and sent to another member for our own personal discussion...i didnt even bother posting here, since we arent allowed to post the YT stuff anymore...

it is actually very ineresting to read and listen to the flame wars between LM and this guy....


Ohh I'm new to this site and didn't know you wasn't suppose to post anything from youtube. I'm sorry, If someone can explain how to delete them, as I'm not sure, I will remove the two posts I made.

PAXIMUS
06-10-2012, 03:43 PM
Ohh I'm new to this site and didn't know you wasn't suppose to post anything from youtube. I'm sorry, If someone can explain how to delete them, as I'm not sure, I will remove the two posts I made.

I think you can post a link to the YT page but we just cant copy and paste the comments.

jeanne
06-10-2012, 03:48 PM
This isn't really about LM but I was on the account I mentioned in a previous post and seen a someone making this comment that there is a guy on youtube who I guess claims he knew Luka, and says he will outdo him. He has these videos talking about this book" The Lords of 2112", and a video of him supposedly channeling demons through himself and that person also provided a link to a video he believe is the same guy acting like he has killing a child, and putting parts into a bag and setting fire to it, the guy in video claims he is going to upload his snuff film to a website, it looks kinda fake to me but it scares me a little to think that she might be serious given that LM made claims like this and then really did it. The guys account is dmmjr1211976...and more videos on another account where they think it's the same guy and with some kind of meat parts in it && another with some kid crying in it is these on a account called Trolley Rulle


will someone check these out, idk if this guy is serious or just looking for attention but it's disturbing

The guy is wearing underwear on his head. Definitely unbalanced.

jeanne
06-10-2012, 03:51 PM
Just saw this.

Yeah, if you know someone who is a narcissist, you can spot it a mile off. Same here with someone close to me.

My ex was a diagnosed Histrionic, which is the female version of a narcissist, and yes...once bitten you tend to be able to spot them a mile away. I agree that narcissism is one of Luka's disorders.

ccaudill0062
06-10-2012, 03:55 PM
Ohh I'm new to this site and didn't know you wasn't suppose to post anything from youtube. I'm sorry, If someone can explain how to delete them, as I'm not sure, I will remove the two posts I made.

Yeah I was watching a video just now on his Trolley Rulle account where he says he is on the run and that the cops came looking for him and someone in his family let him know and claims to have kidnapped the kid in the other video and implies that he will have a video up soon, and at the end starts speaking like he is a demon...Idk if this guy is for real or not, but regardless he has some serious issues but it still scares me.

dallydilly
06-10-2012, 03:56 PM
Yeah I was watching a video just now on his Trolley Rulle account where he says he is on the run and that the cops came looking for him and someone in his family let him know and claims to have kidnapped the kid in the other video and implies that he will have a video up soon, and at the end starts speaking like he is a demon...Idk if this guy is for real or not, but regardless he has some serious issues but it still scares me.

Can't watch it, not knowing there is a child involved :(


Welcome BTW :seeya:

dallydilly
06-10-2012, 03:58 PM
Friend of mine made a new FB page to try and get some answers about the puppy please spread it around so we can get some attention called to where the puppy is.

http://www.facebook.com/pages/What-Happened-to-Luka-Magnottas-Puppy/437610502929876

:please:

Sonya610
06-10-2012, 03:58 PM
Hate to sound all paranoid and such....

But some folks were worried about Luka posting here. They got all paranoid about other posters and such.

I am getting a bit paranoid about PETA members taking advantage of this story. Sociopathic PETA members...well I have 5 rescue dogs and one breeder bought Anatolian. None of us would be cool with being "liberated" and released from suffering if you get my meaning. None of us. It is kind of creepy.

udar55
06-10-2012, 04:00 PM
ARGH!

MSM still going on with the "hi to my fans" video was posted while on the run.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2155672/Luka-Rocco-Magnotta-Video-Canadian-cannibal-sent-fans-run.html

livingstone
06-10-2012, 04:02 PM
A final thought IF anyone is interested....

What is the point to all this discussion?

Well IMHO, whether or not you watched the video, this is a case that instead of a victim that is afar off, there is an actual film of the victim. A real person who was flesh and blood and existed. Much different to see the victim in actual death than to read ABOUT him/her in a news story.

Even if you did not see the video, you know it is real and it exists. Perhaps someone close to you was a victim of a heinous crime. Either way it is a wake up call to further alert us, motivate us to alert our children in the digital age, and an opportunity to discuss with our children the very real danger that exists on the internet....and finally, to direct us as to what clues may be present online that point to any future crimes that may be similar.

I for one think LE will be more apt to take such things (on line clues) more seriously. That is REAL progress.

All those who put in the hours and efforts contribute to this cause.

Sometimes to stop an injustice, to educate and protect our children, (or ourselves) we must stare ugliness in the face and conquer it. We cannot do that with our eyes covered, even when it hurts. We may not fully understand, but that is not the point.


Just like with animal abuse, (included in the case) in this Magnotta case, there must be those brave enough to put aside emotion and stomach reality.

My heartfelt empathy goes to those who will have to study the full length video, (assuming it exists) those who watched the video in order to investigate, and those who know about the video.

You are no less or more of a person for watching or not watching. Facing reality may be just knowing of the video. Nonetheless, you are all very brave to be here.

Nice meeting you. Have to go soon.

jeanne
06-10-2012, 04:05 PM
ARGH!

MSM still going on with the "hi to my fans" video was posted while on the run.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2155672/Luka-Rocco-Magnotta-Video-Canadian-cannibal-sent-fans-run.html

What bothers me more, is their insistance in calling Lin Jun his "lover". There is no evidence they even knew each other before the killing.

shanaya
06-10-2012, 04:06 PM
Yea I dont see Luka as having the type of compulsion to murder like a Dahmer or Gacy who needed to kill for some strange reason within them, for Luka it was all about the production all for show, his compulsion was more about being known for something, anything, rather than a compulsion to kill and the same could be said about the kittens, I dont think he just killed them because he gets some sort of pleasure from killing animals but rather because it would get people's attention and for the shock value.

LM killed to fill a void of a self he did not own or claim to be his, as opposed to other serial killers who possessed stronger senses of themselves, probably due to more stable upbringing which both Dahmer and Gacy had. This void was filled with fantasy - pop, media, film, internet - and through oblivion from the pain via drugs, alcohol and sex. He changed his body and face to become something he'd hoped he'd fit - like a Warhol pop icon - a James Dean, Madonna, a Luka - an icon that shined. He lacked remorse or a conscience, so deviant behavior made no impact on him. From incest with his step mother to selling his body to bestiality to cannibalism. They were all aspects of becoming someone, claiming a self that stood out among the crowd and to become that self, anything was fair game.

livingstone
06-10-2012, 04:09 PM
PETA is a bit on the far side. I came in contact on occasion with members. IMO, it's a cult that can often do more damage to the cause than good.

Although animal life has great value, still human beings are unique.

Some would consider animal life to be superior to that of a human.


Sure do wonder what happened to the dog in the video though.

I am going to check out the FB that guy here posted before I sign off this evening. (Thanks for the link)

dandan08
06-10-2012, 04:09 PM
I don't know if anyone has seen them, but I though it might help anyways. There is a guy who argued with Luka on the internet back in 2007-2008, he had made the videos private but with what happened made them public again (it will have a recent posting date but that's b/c they was just put back on, but you can see there's older comments from like four years ago), and he also made a new video on that account reading some of the old e-mails luka sent from various accounts (acting as others or fans) to him back at that time saying that LM was to be praised as a prince and loved cupcakes, would forgive them if they helped him sell his shirts to make money for a boat to travel to Bahamas, and etc.. His account on youtube is bloglops. It really gives a interesting look into his personality. Also on the videos are some comments from supposedly "luka fans" which he (and I do too) believe was posted by LM himself, which I listed below with some reasons why I think their from accounts made by him. But maybe you guys can dig a little deeper and find some more stuff out. Hope it helps.

canadiancccp (some bernardo && homolka vids && luka pics)
simplythebestyes1 (comments defending luka)
LittleFuryThings (not sure about this one, but b/c of the name && defending comments about luka)
pricelessstud19 (comments praising luka as prine && refernces michael jackson)
liquid666liquid (has I love luka as title && defends luka in comments
megaman666megaman (defends luka && calls him prince)

I posted a fair bit about the bloglops video's back in thread 4 I think (maybe even before that), especially reading through the comments etc and them him reading the emails he used to get during the time when LM was trying to get Family Guy banned. I thought it was relevant as it showed the kind of character LM was 5 or so years ago. I was then told by a couple of members on here that this bloglops was probably just trying to get into the spotlight and not to believe anything he said.

MechanicalMan
06-10-2012, 04:10 PM
I am not so comfy with downloading non-legit sources of full length movies because of the virus risks, plus i don't know how to unzip them.
There isn't any virus risk from the files themselves. Video files are not executable, so there is no way for them to install any type of malware on your computer. Likewise, opening archives will not install anything. There shouldn't be anything to worry about unless you make the very bad mistake of opening something like "Name of move.exe." Also, shady websites could attempt to install malware. But that isn't a problem on trusted, mainstream sites, and hopefully you have software installed that will protect you from malicious websites.

ccaudill0062
06-10-2012, 04:11 PM
Can't watch it, not knowing there is a child involved :(


Welcome BTW :seeya:


Yeah I definitly understand...Like I said I don't know if maybe he's just making them to get attention or what but on the Trolley Rulle acounnt he has 3 videos...One of him driving talking about the cops and being on the run, one where he has some kid in it crying for his mommy (which may just fake) that he says is a preview to his snuff film, and another where has some kind of meat (maybe ribs) that he is implying is the kids and putting in garbage bags to burn "to get rid of the evidence", and goes on to say how he will putting the movie of the killing up and he will be more famous than Luka....but like I said maybe just someone acting to get attention, just creepy that they would even "pretend" to do something like that. He also claims he knew Luka.

Baudi Moovan
06-10-2012, 04:13 PM
ARGH!

MSM still going on with the "hi to my fans" video was posted while on the run.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2155672/Luka-Rocco-Magnotta-Video-Canadian-cannibal-sent-fans-run.html

I have been trying to get the press to fix that. So far only one success with the Toronto Star.

FWIW: PETA was the only organization that would work with us on the issues. They opened up a lot of doors for us with the Police and Private Sources. They are a controversial group, no doubt, but they did help and sunk thier teeth into this with us, for all the good it did :(

Sonya610
06-10-2012, 04:14 PM
What bothers me more, is their insistance in calling Lin Jun his "lover". There is no evidence they even knew each other before the killing.

Well there probably is evidence that has not been disclosed regarding how they met.

Lin Jun was obviously "into it" in the beginning of the video. Obviously. If they weren't lovers it was only because sex wasn't on the agenda.

jeanne
06-10-2012, 04:18 PM
Well there probably is evidence that has not been disclosed regarding how they met.

Lin Jun was obviously "into it" in the beginning of the video. Obviously. If they weren't lovers it was only because sex wasn't on the agenda.

I didn't personally watch the video, but have heard from enough people to believe that Lin Jun was NOT into it. The man was drugged.

james62
06-10-2012, 04:18 PM
Well there probably is evidence that has not been disclosed regarding how they met.

Lin Jun was obviously "into it" in the beginning of the video. Obviously. If they weren't lovers it was only because sex wasn't on the agenda.

Not sure where you get that he was obviously 'into it'. Couldn't he have been drugged? No real evidence that he agreed to be tied up (none to the contrary either, agreed....)

Streets
06-10-2012, 04:19 PM
Does anyone know which authorities to report this to? This guy sounds demented, and I hope that this is not real.

That's what I was wondering. He claims in a video on the Trolley Rulle account that he is "on the run". But idk...I've seen a few other ppl commenting, but in a way idk if it's real b/c it seems like YT would have took it down if it was serious cause a few have claimed they reported it.

I felt sick to my stomach seeing video 2 and if I find out that is real I'll probably throw up knowing I saw it. I just keep telling myself it was a deer or something and not a child.

PAXIMUS
06-10-2012, 04:19 PM
I have been trying to get the press to fix that. So far only one success with the Toronto Star.

FWIW: PETA was the only organization that would work with us on the issues. They opened up a lot of doors for us with the Police and Private Sources. They are a controversial group, no doubt, but they did help and sunk thier teeth into this with us, for all the good it did :(

Welcome to the site BM, appreciate your JUSTICE FB PAGE and all your efforts on this case!

Any chance you could put this on your site so we can find that puppy!

http://www.facebook.com/pages/What-Happened-to-Luka-Magnottas-Puppy/437610502929876

prima.facie
06-10-2012, 04:19 PM
Does anyone know which authorities to report this to? This guy sounds demented, and I hope that this is not real.

seriously....stupid me watched it and had to go wash my mind....

ya know...whether he is joking or not...how many people thought that the things that LM said were just him being a sick **** joking around?

id report too....

prima.facie
06-10-2012, 04:20 PM
I have been trying to get the press to fix that. So far only one success with the Toronto Star.

FWIW: PETA was the only organization that would work with us on the issues. They opened up a lot of doors for us with the Police and Private Sources. They are a controversial group, no doubt, but they did help and sunk thier teeth into this with us, for all the good it did :(

Welcome! I love your FB group and follow it daily. THANK YOU for yalls work on this....

Sonya610
06-10-2012, 04:20 PM
I didn't personally watch the video, but have heard from enough people to believe that Lin Jun was NOT into it. The man was drugged.

I have seen the video, he was definitely good to go and up for some fun. No fear, no fighting against the restraints when someone sat on his chest and....errrm......trust me he was into it.

ccaudill0062
06-10-2012, 04:21 PM
I hope that facebook page will help figure out what happened to the "animal" what ever it was, I'm a big animal lover, have 2 cats that I adore, and it's awful what he did to both Lin Jun and kittens in the other videos. :(

prima.facie
06-10-2012, 04:22 PM
Well there probably is evidence that has not been disclosed regarding how they met.

Lin Jun was obviously "into it" in the beginning of the video. Obviously. If they weren't lovers it was only because sex wasn't on the agenda.

oh please.....the VICTIM was NOT obviously into it.

he actually appeared very out of it as if drugged. there was ZERO signs of him being into this.

that is offensive to the victim.

james62
06-10-2012, 04:23 PM
ARGH!

MSM still going on with the "hi to my fans" video was posted while on the run.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2155672/Luka-Rocco-Magnotta-Video-Canadian-cannibal-sent-fans-run.html

That link is from 3 days ago tho.

Reporting is slowly catching up with what we have been sleuthing here, but it's still behind.

MechanicalMan
06-10-2012, 04:23 PM
I am getting a bit paranoid about PETA members taking advantage of this story.
You mean kind of like how LCA did? By coming to this site, reading a May 31st post questioning a possible link to the Hollywood murder, on June 1st pretending to be Luka on YouTube and taking credit for that murder, with no regard for how this taunting could torment the loved ones of Hervey Medellin and Jun Lin, all for the shameless self-promotion of their animal rights organization?

Yeah, I think there are animal rights extremists who will exploit this murder in any way that they can think of. I think it has already been proven.

Baudi Moovan
06-10-2012, 04:23 PM
There were 2 CL ads that were posted in here...the first one was a guy in LMs area looking for a small dog a few days before the murder. I responded to it asking if they had found what they were looking for and to let me know if I could assist them in finding a local shelter that might have what they are looking for. I never got an answer. I sent the response after LM had been arrested.

The second CL ad you are talking about..the one asking for someone to make a fun movie with no money being exchanged ...I didn't feel comfortable responding to that one for obvious reasons...but someone in the thread did and also..never got a response to date. This was also done after LM had been arrested.

Those are the facts...

I also responded to the ad looking for a dog. I also got no response. The movie making post was odd to me too, and very much Magnotta's style.

Baudi Moovan
06-10-2012, 04:24 PM
I hope that facebook page will help figure out what happened to the "animal" what ever it was, I'm a big animal lover, have 2 cats that I adore, and it's awful what he did to both Lin Jun and kittens in the other videos. :(

The admin group has been trying to find out; but we aren't getting very far at all. The Montreal SPCA are on it. I think that most information is going to come from the Police right now, even on the dog, and they arent saying much.

ccaudill0062
06-10-2012, 04:24 PM
I felt sick to my stomach seeing video 2 and if I find out that is real I'll probably throw up knowing I saw it. I just keep telling myself it was a deer or something and not a child.

I know that is what I was hoping is that it's just some twisted person with some kind of fake meat or something. I tried to report it on youtube but for some reason it's not working..I pray it's not real...but even if it isn't I worry over that person still b/c it's sick to even pretend that your doing something like that.

otto
06-10-2012, 04:26 PM
He has no obligation to speak to the media. His obligation ends with telling his story to LE. At least he didn't come out & publicly state he was entertaining bids for his story like the internet cafe employee.

I have a hunch that the French are more tight-lipped about such matters than we Americans are. Can anyone shed any light on this?

It's quite possible that he is considered to be a witness and that he has been instructed to not discuss those two days.

PAXIMUS
06-10-2012, 04:26 PM
Jin Lun was VERY LIKELY drugged, Sonya, you can see that and it is plainly obvious, likely against his will too, I dont see where you get this idea that he was "in to it" I dont care what you post and I dont get offended by anything but that seems really far fetched to me IMO. He was drugged.

PAXIMUS
06-10-2012, 04:28 PM
I hope that facebook page will help figure out what happened to the "animal" what ever it was, I'm a big animal lover, have 2 cats that I adore, and it's awful what he did to both Lin Jun and kittens in the other videos. :(

Me too, I am hoping the new FB page about the puppy will bring someone out who knows what happened to it since a lot of people want to know.

DD_bwest
06-10-2012, 04:28 PM
The Canadian legal system is something that I am looking forward to better understanding. I am embarrassed by the ethnocentric ignorance I currently have about the in's and out's of Canada's system of justice and the wheels that make it turn. While we export and seem to flood Canadians with our media, we rarely take the opportunity to learn about them. The film Canadian Bacon is a great illustration of American ignorance about Canada.

Based on your legal background and what you shared with me PAX, you've learned much more about the Canadian legal burden of proof that must be met for conviction and the manner which they conduct legal cases. Therefore I give the points you raised much more weight in my mind.


while ive got pages to catch up on, i wanted to mention before i forgot.. COMPLETLY OT.. while not everyone south of the border is ignorant about canada, we do get a good laugh from the ones that dont know crap. A well known canadian TV comedian/political commentator Rick Mercer ran a special many years ago called "talking to Americans" where he travelled the US, talking to those in the streets/campuses about made up news reports that were all around hilarious.. like canada getting its first 100 km of paved road, finally adopting the 24 hour clock, joining north america, and a few other gems.. he even tricked some well known people. like having mike huckabee congrats canada on preserving its national igloo

Baudi Moovan
06-10-2012, 04:28 PM
You mean kind of like how LCA did? By coming to this site, reading a May 31st post questioning a possible link to the Hollywood murder, on June 1st pretending to be Luka on YouTube and taking credit for that murder, with no regard for how this taunting could torment the loved ones of Hervey Medellin and Jun Lin, all for the shameless self-promotion of their animal rights organization?

Yeah, I think there are animal rights extremists who will exploit this murder in any way that they can think of. I think it has already been proven.

Ive been on this for 18 months; with a month break here and there in between. I never once heard that LCA was working on *anything* in relation to Magnotta. Im was fan of LCA, but I, and everyone else in our admin group was absolutely digusted with what they did. Honey Pots are a useful tool, but I honestly don't know what they thought they would find? Then to release a press statement on it? It makes NO sense, and I honestly believe it was a way for them to somehow capitalize on this and get their name in the papers or something. I just don't get what they wanted to accomplish.

LCA never once worked with our team.

Sonya610
06-10-2012, 04:28 PM
please stop posting these things. the VICTIM was NOT obviously into it.

he actually appeared very out of it as if drugged. there was ZERO signs of him being into this.

that is offensive to the victim.

I guess I am the only adult on this site that has had sex and knows what posturing and sexual foreplay looks like. I know it when I see it, and the video of the victim when alive was definitely all about sex and foreplay. "Victims" that are drugged out of their mind don't squirm seductively or keep shifting TOWARDS the assailant with their legs open.

They lay their quietly, or if they are in fear and being attacked they fight against their bonds.

writer7
06-10-2012, 04:29 PM
I'm not sure I'm that happy with the way gay people are referred to in that link, it seems to have been written by someone with quite dated attitudes, i.e. that a lot of gay people hate themselves.

I found this part very strange:

Not all (or even most) members of the gay community are killers. Some serial killers have been gay men. The reason behind their crimes may be, as proposed by Maghan and Sagarin the simple fact that they are taking out their rage at being gay on their victims. Or another way to explain the crime is that the victim because a symbolic victim, the victim becomes a symbol of what the offender hates the most...himself.

As a gay man myself, that sounds like something that might have been written a few decades ago.

I will have a bit more of a look at the site tho.

I hope my earlier post about wondering when he came out, etc, didn't strike y'all that way. I hate that stereotype of gay people!

OTOH, some folks do have a very bad time of it. Individual GLBT people may have some self-loathing or anger issues going on that do relate to their sexuality, or at least to how their family or similar view non-heteronormative people.

I think Eric did have a preoccupation with anger over how he was viewed by too many people due to sexuality issues. If his writings included a kernel of truth, he was not at all happy with being rejected by anyone again, particularly for something he couldn't control (his own words). He was angry with society and felt very rejected. IMHO.

I'd guess his family was probably very bad about LGBT stuff. That just an inkling of mine.

Classmates have said that he was 'very effeminate' as a kid, so his anger about the bullying and rejections may well be important to understand him.

Jujercu
06-10-2012, 04:29 PM
Hate to sound all paranoid and such....

But some folks were worried about Luka posting here. They got all paranoid about other posters and such.

I am getting a bit paranoid about PETA members taking advantage of this story. Sociopathic PETA members...well I have 5 rescue dogs and one breeder bought Anatolian. None of us would be cool with being "liberated" and released from suffering if you get my meaning. None of us. It is kind of creepy.

Google the founder of PETA and read all her creepy actions...I don't touch PETA with a ten foot pole. :snooty:

jeanne
06-10-2012, 04:31 PM
oh please.....the VICTIM was NOT obviously into it.

he actually appeared very out of it as if drugged. there was ZERO signs of him being into this.

that is offensive to the victim.

THANK YOU! This is disgusting.

Sigh Sister
06-10-2012, 04:34 PM
Jin Lun was VERY LIKELY drugged, Sonya, you can see that and it is plainly obvious, likely against his will too, I dont see where you get this idea that he was "in to it" I dont care what you post and I dont get offended by anything but that seems really far fetched to me IMO. He was drugged.

Do you happen to have a link to the news story that said the police found a glass with traces of some type of drug or drugs in LM's apartment? I've been trying to find it with no success. I haven't watched the video, but I believe the general consensus is that he was drugged.

Baudi Moovan
06-10-2012, 04:34 PM
I don't think he'll talk to the police or the media. He wants that air of mysteriousness around him. Here's what one of his sockpuppets said to us at Christmas time 2011:

"This man has brought on so much attention to himself , the things he is apparently involved in are horendous and now he is going deeper and deeper underground. I think with each crime , he is getting smarter and smarter so eventually none of the public will know what he is doing. Thats why its so important for the media to start keeping an eye on him... but they cant because he wont talk ...and THATS why he wont talk because he doesnt want to be found or be followed."

Also, I don't believe he killed out of some great compulsion to do so. I don't think he enjoys or savors the killings, but I don't think he minds them either. He did this purely for attention. Magnotta is a professional troll. And he is VERY good at it.

Every act that is supposed to be 'shocking' is simulated. The Necrophilia with the kittens and the human victim here are simulated; he did it to get a rise. First with Animal folks, but that wasn't enough. There were only 3000 of us, with like 12 working it full time. It wasnt enough attention.

PAXIMUS
06-10-2012, 04:37 PM
I dont see how PETA is any more extreme than the POS who stuff 300 chickens in to 3 square feet of space in those chicken farms. Have you ever seen the conditions the animals on those meat farms are raised in? Disgusting and extreme.

PAXIMUS
06-10-2012, 04:38 PM
Do you happen to have a link to the news story that said the police found a glass with traces of some type of drug or drugs in LM's apartment? I've been trying to find it with no success. I haven't watched the video, but I believe the general consensus is that he was drugged.

No I havent but he sure looked drugged to me, he was very groggy looking and only half conscious from the looks of the way he moved and struggled to lift his head up.

Sonya610
06-10-2012, 04:41 PM
Do you happen to have a link to the news story that said the police found a glass with traces of some type of drug or drugs in LM's apartment? I've been trying to find it with no success. I haven't watched the video, but I believe the general consensus is that he was drugged.

The victim was not forced at gunpoint or otherwise kidnapped, let us just put it that way. He was tied up consentually because he thought it would be fun. Gay males make up what....maybe 10% of the male population? Or more like 5%? If someone were to grab a victim off of the street what is the likelihood that they would also just happen to be gay and such.

Hmmmmm. Statistically unlikely.

Cappuccino
06-10-2012, 04:42 PM
[quote=Streets;8033687]

I know that is what I was hoping is that it's just some twisted person with some kind of fake meat or something. I tried to report it on youtube but for some reason it's not working..I pray it's not real...but even if it isn't I worry over that person still b/c it's sick to even pretend that your doing something like that.

Just had a look around that guy's channel, and I'm pretty sure that guy's on a wind up. Its a sick way to get a rise out of people, but sick jokes always follow quickly in the wake of events like these.

MechanicalMan
06-10-2012, 04:45 PM
It's really pretty disturbing (and sad) when you listen to the lyrics. I've known this song for years, but this is the first time I've listened to it since watching the video.

Agreed the mental health experts might indeed see symbolism here. There's just too much stuff in there.
You can imagine why he might be drawn to the lyrics of True Faith, but I suspect that the song's appearance in American Psycho is likely what brought it to his attention. He's clearly obsessed with killers, both real and fictional. I wonder if his online comments about homeless people are also evidence of him borrowing from American Psycho.

girlinblue
06-10-2012, 04:47 PM
The victim was not forced at gunpoint or otherwise kidnapped, let us just put it that way. He was tied up consentually because he thought it would be fun. Gay males make up what....maybe 10% of the male population? Or more like 5%? If someone were to grab a victim off of the street what is the likelihood that they would also just happen to be gay and such.

Hmmmmm. Statistically improbable.

I don't think anyone is disputing there was a sexual element. However, I don't think Jun Lin was all, OKAY, KILL ME UP!

I personally didn't see any want from the victim. He adjusted a few times, but not in a sexual manner toward LRM. He moved about lazily, when he was moving, like someone in a deep sleep.

Sigh Sister
06-10-2012, 04:47 PM
No I havent but he sure looked drugged to me, he was very groggy looking and only half conscious from the looks of the way he moved and struggled to lift his head up.

I know I read that in a news report which adds credence to the HIGH probability that he was drugged. Hopefully, someone will have a link.

Sonya610
06-10-2012, 04:48 PM
You can imagine why he might be drawn to the lyrics of True Faith, but I suspect that the song's appearance in American Psycho is likely what brought it to his attention. He's clearly obsessed with killers, both real and fictional. I wonder if his online comments about homeless people are also evidence of him borrowing from American Psycho.

I found the lyrics moving. Sheesh he didn't choose any of the great songs from one of Rob Zombie's movies. The lyrics had meaning.

Not much else about him does so let us focus on those rare elements of realism, or project onto those elements. : )

Cappuccino
06-10-2012, 04:48 PM
You can imagine why he might be drawn to the lyrics of True Faith, but I suspect that the song's appearance in American Psycho is likely what brought it to his attention. He's clearly obsessed with killers, both real and fictional. I wonder if his online comments about homeless people are also evidence of him borrowing from American Psycho.

That's what I think too. Luka Magnotta is probably not deep enough to be attracted to a song by its profound lyrics, he's too superficial. The song featured in a controversial movie scene, which is probably the only reason he's ever heard it, and the only reason he chose it. It was probably a toss up between that and Stealer's Wheel's "Stuck in the Middle With You."

matou
06-10-2012, 04:48 PM
I have seen the video, he was definitely good to go and up for some fun. No fear, no fighting against the restraints when someone sat on his chest and....errrm......trust me he was into it.

He wasn't moving at all when LM sat on his chest. He was soooo NOT into it because either:
1. he was dead already.
2. he was passed out completely.

If he was "into it" he would have moved when LM sat on him.

ccaudill0062
06-10-2012, 04:48 PM
I have to say that while it is only my opinion, I do think the victim might have possibly been drugged, now that's only my opinion, but from what I've seen (yes, I watched the video) his movements at the beginning looked uncoordinated and like that of someone who may have been out of it. I have used drug's before, though I wish I hadn't and no longer do, and know what that kind of out of it feeling is and that's what it looked like to me. Even if he was there willingly and maybe even tied up willingly (sexually) I still get this feeling as if he wasn't fully aware of his situation and the danger his was in. I won't go on to speculate as to whether he was drugged by the person who done the killing (who I do believe was LM) or whether he may have took them willingly if he was indeed going to partake in consensual sex with Luka, b/c I have no idea, but I do believe on way or the other that he was under the influence of something. But that is just speculation on my part, and in no way means he was, or that anyone else's opinion aren't correct. IMO

dandan08
06-10-2012, 04:49 PM
No I havent but he sure looked drugged to me, he was very groggy looking and only half conscious from the looks of the way he moved and struggled to lift his head up.

Coupled with the fact LM (allegedly) posted under his alias cutelittlenemo1 saying the best sedative is liquid morphine as it is extremely quick and doesn't take much time to kick in.

Sigh Sister
06-10-2012, 04:49 PM
The victim was not forced at gunpoint or otherwise kidnapped, let us just put it that way. He was tied up consentually because he thought it would be fun. Gay males make up what....maybe 10% of the male population? Or more like 5%? If someone were to grab a victim off of the street what is the likelihood that they would also just happen to be gay and such.

Hmmmmm. Statistically unlikely.

Can you entertain the possibility that LM invited him over for a drink? And then gave him a drink that was spiked with drugs?

james62
06-10-2012, 04:50 PM
The victim was not forced at gunpoint or otherwise kidnapped, let us just put it that way. He was tied up consentually because he thought it would be fun. Gay males make up what....maybe 10% of the male population? Or more like 5%? If someone were to grab a victim off of the street what is the likelihood that they would also just happen to be gay and such.

Hmmmmm. Statistically unlikely.

I could be misinterpreting you here, but are you saying that gay males are more likely to want to be tied up than anyone else??

I don't see the connection between him being gay and being tied up.

jeanne
06-10-2012, 04:50 PM
The victim was not forced at gunpoint or otherwise kidnapped, let us just put it that way. He was tied up consentually because he thought it would be fun. Gay males make up what....maybe 10% of the male population? Or more like 5%? If someone were to grab a victim off of the street what is the likelihood that they would also just happen to be gay and such.

Hmmmmm. Statistically unlikely.

I have to say that I really resent this line of reasoning. A man was brutally murdered and to suggest that he was "INTO" his murder is just wrong on so many levels. Yes, it is probable that he went willingly to Luka's apartment. It is also probable that he was given something to drink that rendered him unable to defend himself, and I believe that is clear in the video, if I am to believe the 99% of people who watched it and agree he was drugged. You are the 1% suggesting he was enjoying himself. Please. Stop.

otto
06-10-2012, 04:51 PM
Thank you to Facie who sent me this:
The BOLDED parts indicates to me that YES they can SEE SOMEONE eating parts but they CANNOT CONFIRM it is MAGNOTTA so this, to me, answers the question that they cannot directly tie him to that video conclusively and his face is never shown as such.

"Police confirmed Tuesday they have video evidence Luka Rocco Magnotta, accused of the grisly murder of a Chinese national studying in Montreal, may have eaten some of his victim before sending parts in the mail to political parties.

http://www.montrealgazette.com/news/Magnotta+accused+eating+part+slain+student+body+pa rts+still+missing/6731784/story.html#ixzz1xQQEXESl

Baudi Moovan
06-10-2012, 04:52 PM
Coupled with the fact LM (allegedly) posted under his alias cutelittlenemo1 saying the best sedative is liquid morphine as it is extremely quick and doesn't take much time to kick in.

cutelittlenemo1 was absolutely him. In fact, one of his sockpuppets pointed us in the direction of cutelittlenemo1's posts only minutes after they were posted.

sillybilly
06-10-2012, 04:52 PM
That is a good point but he also didnt try and hide, he was at a bar partying and talking to people while his face was on every news channel and the front of every newspaper, he openly went to internet cafes etc. Certainly not the behavior of someone living in fear of getting caught because he did something very bad. I think a case could be made that he is not criminally responsible because of insanity and a case could be made otherwise, I could effectively argue both sides of that to some degree of success.

IMO, his "real" face was really not that recognizable, compared to the pictures that had been published of him as a wanted man. I believe it is possible that he was cunning enough to know this.

Sorry if this has been addressed ... guess i'll have to move to the east coast to keep up with this particular forum.

Baudi Moovan
06-10-2012, 04:53 PM
I dont know what kind of foreplay you are in to but when I am with a chick and foreplay is going on she is usually flopping around, kicking and screaming pretty actively and not acting like she is half conscious and struggling to move or lift her head up to see what the hell is going on.

Its possible that he was drugged. It's also possible that him acting like he was drugged as part of Magnotta's 'movie' (if you believe the craigslisting posts are his) and that he was killed via the throat slash.

PAXIMUS
06-10-2012, 04:55 PM
"Police confirmed Tuesday they have video evidence Luka Rocco Magnotta, accused of the grisly murder of a Chinese national studying in Montreal, may have eaten some of his victim before sending parts in the mail to political parties.

http://www.montrealgazette.com/news/Magnotta+accused+eating+part+slain+student+body+pa rts+still+missing/6731784/story.html#ixzz1xQQEXESl


Everything I have read indicates that they do see someone eating something but they cant be certain it is him, of course we all know it is him but it isnt what you know its what can be proven in court, I dont think they can see his face on the video, the key word here is MAY have eaten. In otherwords it MAY have been Luka but they are not certain because they cant see his face.

Sonya610
06-10-2012, 04:55 PM
I don't think anyone is disputing there was a sexual element. However, I don't think Jun Lin was all, OKAY, KILL ME UP!

I personally didn't see any want from the victim. He adjusted a few times, but not in a sexual manner toward LRM. He moved about lazily, when he was moving, like someone in a deep sleep.

He wasn't that lazy, he was shifting his hips around quite a bit, and shifting towards the killer, no testing the bonds or appearing even slighty stressed.

Were drugs involved? Oh most certainly! Did June Lin say "kill me up", probably not. Having said probably not there is NO word on how these two met. Not sure why the MSM is being so quiet about that aspect.

Maybe some Canadian PC thing? They don't want to bring gay hook up sites into this?

PAXIMUS
06-10-2012, 04:56 PM
Its possible that he was drugged. It's also possible that him acting like he was drugged as part of Magnotta's 'movie' (if you believe the craigslisting posts are his) and that he was killed via the throat slash.

Yes that is possible too.

Sonya610
06-10-2012, 05:01 PM
Yes that is possible too.

If he was killed via throat slash the killer cleaned up the throat with a firehose and dried it off afterward. If the killer isn't a clean freak that despises blood (?) then the throat slash was post mortem.

jeanne
06-10-2012, 05:02 PM
If he was killed via throat slash the killer cleaned up the throat with a firehose and dried it off afterward.

I have personally seen the throat slash picture. Where do you come up with these things? There was plenty of blood.

james62
06-10-2012, 05:03 PM
Maybe some Canadian PC thing? They don't want to bring gay hook up sites into this?

I have used gay hook up sites in the past and never been tied up. Sometimes I've just had a coffee with the guy, sometimes gone further, and twice even ended up in a relationship. All permutations.

Are gay hook up sites any more likely than straight hook up sites to have people looking for S & M? I don't think so.

Why are you trying to link the fact of being gay to the fact that some people, of all perusasions, like a bit of bondage?

otto
06-10-2012, 05:04 PM
What bothers me more, is their insistance in calling Lin Jun his "lover". There is no evidence they even knew each other before the killing.

"Magnotta and Lin knew each other, according to Montreal police. A source told QMI the men were lovers and Magnotta became upset because Lin ended the relationship and was seeing another man."

June 9, 2012
http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/Crime/2012/06/09/19858446.html

"“We believe those two individuals knew each other,” Lafrenière said of Lin and Magnotta."

June 1, 2012
http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/article/1204107--luka-rocco-magnotta-manhunt-continues-body-parts-killing-victim-identified-as-concordia-student-lin-jun

girlinblue
06-10-2012, 05:05 PM
He wasn't that lazy, he was shifting his hips around quite a bit, and shifting towards the killer, no testing the bonds or appearing even slighty stressed.

Were drugs involved? Oh most certainly! Did June Lin say "kill me up", probably not. Having said probably not there is NO word on how these two met. Not sure why the MSM is being so quiet about that aspect.

Maybe some Canadian PC thing? They don't want to bring gay hook up sites into this?

I'm not sure where you see suggestive sexual positioning.

At :30 he shifts to the left while Luka is on the right.

At :40 he shifts again, slightly toward Luka, who is still on the right, he raises his head and moves his legs in a manner that suggest he might wish to sit up (IMO) but can't, then lays his head back down and shifts to the left again, away from Luka.

Then he's dead and the stabbing starts. Am I missing other movement? (Not being snippy, genuinely asking.)

ETA: Also I'm confused about people thinking they just met or met for sex. There were several articles and report stating a friend, the one who had reported Jun Lin missing, confirmed they had been dating. And one was upset about the other seeing someone else. Am I misremembering or missing something there too? It's hard to keep up at times.

Nevermind, I see that was answered above me.

jeanne
06-10-2012, 05:06 PM
"Magnotta and Lin knew each other, according to Montreal police. A source told QMI the men were lovers and Magnotta became upset because Lin ended the relationship and was seeing another man."

June 9, 2012
http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/Crime/2012/06/09/19858446.html

"“We believe those two individuals knew each other,” Lafrenière said of Lin and Magnotta."

June 1, 2012
http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/article/1204107--luka-rocco-magnotta-manhunt-continues-body-parts-killing-victim-identified-as-concordia-student-lin-jun

Yes, those things were reported very very early in the case, but later Lin Jun's friends disputed that and said they had never heard of Magnotta.

scapa
06-10-2012, 05:06 PM
The guy is wearing underwear on his head. Definitely unbalanced.

Uh... yeah... :ohdear::ohdear::innocent:

** REMOVES PANTS FROM HEAD IN SHAME **

S

PAXIMUS
06-10-2012, 05:06 PM
I have read 3 different reports and they all say something to the effect that he MAY HAVE eaten body parts. Lets look at what that means.

If you say "Luka ate body parts" that means you seen body parts being eaten and you seen him eating them.

If you say "Luka MAY HAVE eaten body parts" you are saying BODY PARTS CAN BE SEEN BEING EATEN but we do not know FOR SURE IT WAS LUKA that was eating them, it may have been him but we arent certain it was him, we ARE CERTAIN body parts were being eaten though AS WE CAN SEE THAT MUCH.


So that tells me they cannot SEE HIS FACE even on the unedited video. Which is going to be interesting when this goes to trial.

Sonya610
06-10-2012, 05:07 PM
Google the founder of PETA and read all her creepy actions...I don't touch PETA with a ten foot pole. :snooty:

Yeah I know. They are crazy and their marketing tactics are idiotic. I get a bit paranoid because they claim to care about animals yet they love to kill domestic animals in order to "save them". Me and my domestics aren't cool with that. : )

Scales
06-10-2012, 05:08 PM
I have seen the video, he was definitely good to go and up for some fun. No fear, no fighting against the restraints when someone sat on his chest and....errrm......trust me he was into it.

I'm sorry, but I can't "trust you" on this one. I have the exact opposite opinion.

otto
06-10-2012, 05:09 PM
Everything I have read indicates that they do see someone eating something but they cant be certain it is him, of course we all know it is him but it isnt what you know its what can be proven in court, I dont think they can see his face on the video, the key word here is MAY have eaten. In otherwords it MAY have been Luka but they are not certain because they cant see his face.

The article says that it is confirmed that Luka Magnotta may have eaten ... not that it may be Luka Magnotta.

PAXIMUS
06-10-2012, 05:11 PM
If he was killed via throat slash the killer cleaned up the throat with a firehose and dried it off afterward. If the killer isn't a clean freak that despises blood (?) then the throat slash was post mortem.

I dont think he was killed by a throat slash, I think he was probably suffocated/strangled, I was agreeing with the poster who suggested JL could have been ACTING DRUGGED as part of a movie he thought he was playing a part in as we do have evidence that Luka may have posted on CL looking for an actor in a movie he wanted to make. But I personally think he was INDEED DRUGGED and not acting, although it is possible otherwise.

Scales
06-10-2012, 05:11 PM
Yeah I definitly understand...Like I said I don't know if maybe he's just making them to get attention or what but on the Trolley Rulle acounnt he has 3 videos...One of him driving talking about the cops and being on the run, one where he has some kid in it crying for his mommy (which may just fake) that he says is a preview to his snuff film, and another where has some kind of meat (maybe ribs) that he is implying is the kids and putting in garbage bags to burn "to get rid of the evidence", and goes on to say how he will putting the movie of the killing up and he will be more famous than Luka....but like I said maybe just someone acting to get attention, just creepy that they would even "pretend" to do something like that. He also claims he knew Luka.

That dude has been posting all week. I saw his first video and flagged it. Not because I thought it was real, because he was just being a troll.

His videos look incredibly fake. Those looked like barbeque ribs he probably stole from his parents house. What a waste, that looked like some expensive meat.

Cappuccino
06-10-2012, 05:11 PM
I think we have too little information at this stage to know what exactly is in the full version of the killvid, or whether or not his face his shown.

Sonya610
06-10-2012, 05:13 PM
I'm sorry, but I can't "trust you" on this one. I have the exact opposite opinion.

I don't recall a gag being used, do you?????

Drugged and able to shift around, but no need for a gag. Must have used a second drug that paralyzed the vocal cords. Didn't paralyze the legs or arms or body or head but the vocal cords were non-functional.

Uh huh. Spin on that theory. What kind of drug do you think was used?

girlinblue
06-10-2012, 05:15 PM
Yes, those things were reported very very early in the case, but later Lin Jun's friends disputed that and said they had never heard of Magnotta.

Thanks Otto & Jeanne. It's hard to discern information when there is so much of it, so much of it is false, and from so many different sources. Thanks (everyone) for extending patience when repeat questions or already answered things are brought up. I tend to read this case in spurts, and no longer try to keep up with 50+ pages of missed threads. It's a lot to take in and easy to burn out.

PAXIMUS
06-10-2012, 05:15 PM
The article says that it is confirmed that Luka Magnotta may have eaten ... not that it may be Luka Magnotta.

How do you explain the "MAY HAVE" then, if you say he MAY HAVE eaten you are saying that there is EATING GOING ON and it MAY HAVE BEEN LUKA, if there was some QUESTION AS TO WHETHER there was eating going on then why even bring up the EATING and the word CONFIRMED? I read it as:

Police say Luka may have been eating body parts, that means they can SEE SOMEONE EATING BODY PARTS that much is confirmed and it MAY HAVE been Luka but they cant be certain because they cant see him but they CAN SEE body parts being eaten.

Does anyone follow me here, the may have clearly indicates they cant prove it is LUKA doing the eating only that there IS EATING GOING ON and it MAY HAVE BEEN LUKA but since they cant see his face they are not CERTAIN it was him.

find
06-10-2012, 05:16 PM
Warning talk about the video




The first man tied up moving to me has much longer hair. and differs from the last picture in the video stills. head by the bathtub.