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~n/t~
06-19-2012, 03:44 PM
No, there's no restriction.

Are you serious? OMG! That's insane. So we can have these 13 year old kids showing up at the trial? No way. :thud:

DD_bwest
06-19-2012, 03:44 PM
Don't they have to be 18 to enter? :waitasec:

no, as a kid i used to go to court all the time just to watch.. some of the things you see, it can be better then peoples court..

i actually saw a case between neighbours, where a video was produced showing the 2 of them on the edges of their property, in a leaf blower war blowing the leaves at eachother and onto the other property.. :floorlaugh:

Sealuzna
06-19-2012, 03:44 PM
No in Canada, the legal system, it's "The Queen vs defendant."

And boy is she pissed.Actually it's "R. v. [Defendant]".

R. meaning Regina.

Cappuccino
06-19-2012, 03:44 PM
Just curious--what evidence is there against him being a hermaphrodite?

What evidence is there for him being a hermaphrodite? None - and what has been asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.

griffon
06-19-2012, 03:45 PM
Actually it's "R. v. [Defendant]".

R. meaning Regina.

Back when I was a young punk I was always up against the Queen... lol.

Mbshafeena
06-19-2012, 03:46 PM
It's not senseless at all if he and his lawyer decide to go the "not criminally responsible" route. It would provide him a defense and give Jun Lin's family closure re: the body.

It's perfectly legal and his lawyer has already opened the door to it.

"Not Criminally Responsible: No person is criminally responsible for an
act committed or an omission made while suffering from a mental
disorder that rendered the person incapable of appreciating the nature
and quality of the act or omission or of knowing that it was wrong."

If he didn't know it was wrong than WHY in heaven hide the torso in the suitcase hoping it would get picked-up by the garbage men. WHY would he have mailed the body parts to various places, WHY would he have fled the country. Also, IF the plane ticket was purchased before the murder happenned, that will be a BIG one. "Not criminally responsible" will be a very difficult sell to a jury, JMOO.

OEJ
06-19-2012, 03:47 PM
Just curious--what evidence is there against him being a hermaphrodite?

Video evidence. He has a few viewable porn videos online. Extended close-up shots.

Sealuzna
06-19-2012, 03:48 PM
If he didn't know it was wrong than WHY in heaven hide the torso in the suitcase hoping it would get picked-up by the garbage men. WHY would he have mailed the body parts to various places, WHY would he have fled the country. Also, IF the plane ticket was purchased before the murder happenned, that will be a BIG one. "Not criminally responsible" will be a very difficult sell to a jury, JMOO.It'll be interesting to see how that plays out, for sure.

~n/t~
06-19-2012, 03:48 PM
3m Judy Trinh ‏@JudyTrinhCBC
#MTL cops to take #Magnotta's DNA 2 see if there R links to unsolvd crimes Once in DATABS #Ottpolice will look at DNA too #ottnews #cbcott

sinwonderland
06-19-2012, 03:49 PM
Doesn't a hermaphrodite have both male and female parts?? From his nude pictures and adult site pics, looks like just male parts...

~n/t~
06-19-2012, 03:49 PM
no, as a kid i used to go to court all the time just to watch.. some of the things you see, it can be better then peoples court..

i actually saw a case between neighbours, where a video was produced showing the 2 of them on the edges of their property, in a leaf blower war blowing the leaves at eachother and onto the other property.. :floorlaugh:

ok but that's silly petty stuff. This is a horrific murder trial. I'm sure the Judge will put age restrictions, imo

Mbshafeena
06-19-2012, 03:50 PM
Are you serious? OMG! That's insane. So we can have these 13 year old kids showing up at the trial? No way. :thud:

Sounds like the movie "To Kill a Mockingbird" and the children in court.

I doubt a 13 year old would be allowed in court if and when the trial starts and the video is shown.

CARIIS
06-19-2012, 03:51 PM
Lineup at courthouse for Magnotta appearance

MONTREAL - There's a lineup at the Montreal courthouse for Luka Rocco Magnotta's expected 2:30 p.m. appearance.

Journalists and curious onlookers have gathered outside the courtroom. A half-dozen Grade 7 students, still wearing their school uniforms, are waiting patiently in line.

One 13-year-old boy named Nykolas, who hopes to be a lawyer one day, says he wants to see how the defence team operates.

The students are not accompanied by an adult.

A woman just ahead of the students in line says she wants to attend Magnotta's appearance because of the intense media attention around the case.

Allegations that the killer posted a grisly video of his crime online also encouraged the retired 76-year-old to show up.

When asked why she was so interested in the case, Michelle, who only gave her first name, said: "It's hot."

http://www.1310news.com/news/national/article/374901--lineup-at-courthouse-for-magnotta-appearance
My goodness.......................

CARIIS
06-19-2012, 03:52 PM
Video evidence. He has a few viewable porn videos online. Extended close-up shots.
I have no idea, someone else mentioned it !

DD_bwest
06-19-2012, 03:54 PM
ok but that's silly petty stuff. This is a horrific murder trial. I'm sure the Judge will put age restrictions, imo

no, i also got to see some pretty gruesome crimes.. i was in my teens tho..

but then again i never got to see a murder trial..

Karmady
06-19-2012, 03:54 PM
If he didn't know it was wrong than WHY in heaven hide the torso in the suitcase hoping it would get picked-up by the garbage men. WHY would he have mailed the body parts to various places, WHY would he have fled the country. Also, IF the plane ticket was purchased before the murder happenned, that will be a BIG one. "Not criminally responsible" will be a very difficult sell to a jury, JMOO.

Two things. If that is the correct standard (I can't see the quote you quoted in the reply box, so paraphrasing), first, it's written with an "or" meaning either you must not appreciate the nature or quality of your actions, OR you must not know that they are wrong. Second, you can know that others will perceive something as wrong while, you, yourself, don't see them as wrong for whatever reason. In lm's case, I think the second one is very likely to be the case.

Not saying those arguments would prevail, but that's what I'd argue if I were lm's defense attorney (heaven forbid!) and assuming that is, in fact, a correct statement of the test under Canadian law. jmo

OEJ
06-19-2012, 03:55 PM
I have no idea, someone else mentioned it !

It's no big deal. I just wanted to see if LM was uncomfortable with his scenes. He did appear somewhat uncomfortable at times.

CARIIS
06-19-2012, 03:56 PM
Lineup at courthouse for Magnotta appearance

MONTREAL - There's a lineup at the Montreal courthouse for Luka Rocco Magnotta's expected 2:30 p.m. appearance.

Journalists and curious onlookers have gathered outside the courtroom. A half-dozen Grade 7 students, still wearing their school uniforms, are waiting patiently in line.

One 13-year-old boy named Nykolas, who hopes to be a lawyer one day, says he wants to see how the defence team operates.

The students are not accompanied by an adult.

A woman just ahead of the students in line says she wants to attend Magnotta's appearance because of the intense media attention around the case.

Allegations that the killer posted a grisly video of his crime online also encouraged the retired 76-year-old to show up.

When asked why she was so interested in the case, Michelle, who only gave her first name, said: "It's hot."

http://www.1310news.com/news/national/article/374901--lineup-at-courthouse-for-magnotta-appearance
At 13, isn't there a thing called SCHOOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
A two year "outing" sounds problematic to me !

Scientific
06-19-2012, 03:57 PM
Guess what I was thinking was that he might have been born as one and had an operation but still lived with certain stigmas, that he might have had an operation to change his sex but not wanted to lose his original organ, or might have suffered from gender confusion over having been born one but never known about his original condition if his parents had an operation done quickly. I was trying to understand why he might shun sexual intimacy and be a tranny who didn't want to lose his male genitals (the porn videos might have been shot before an operation). Maybe I was over-thinking things.

Doesn't a hermaphrodite have both male and female parts?? From his nude pictures and adult site pics, looks like just male parts...

HastingsChi
06-19-2012, 03:57 PM
Doesn't a hermaphrodite have both male and female parts?? From his nude pictures and adult site pics, looks like just male parts...

As the appointed go-to know-it-all on all things male anatomy and gay (Thanks FootballMom and the countless people who apparently agree with FB LOL), I want to end speculation that Magnotta is a hermaphrodite; sorry to end everyone's dual part obsession but he only has boy parts.

CARIIS
06-19-2012, 03:59 PM
no, as a kid i used to go to court all the time just to watch.. some of the things you see, it can be better then peoples court..

i actually saw a case between neighbours, where a video was produced showing the 2 of them on the edges of their property, in a leaf blower war blowing the leaves at eachother and onto the other property.. :floorlaugh:
Some things never change only get more intense huh!

HastingsChi
06-19-2012, 03:59 PM
Sounds like the movie "To Kill a Mockingbird" and the children in court.

I doubt a 13 year old would be allowed in court if and when the trial starts and the video is shown.

Why drag poor Scout and Jem into this??? :floorlaugh:

Sealuzna
06-19-2012, 04:00 PM
At 13, isn't there a thing called SCHOOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
A two year "outing" sounds problematic to me !Yes, and there are also things called parents. ;)

Having said that, it was a simple (less than 7 minute) hearing today, which can be educational for children.

I'm sure the judge will use his discretionary powers to limit age groups in future hearings, depending on the content.

Karmady
06-19-2012, 04:01 PM
Is there a video of the court appearance, or are we not allowed "inside" Canadian courts?

CARIIS
06-19-2012, 04:02 PM
Guess what I was thinking was that he might have been born as one and had an operation but still lived with certain stigmas, that he might have had an operation to change his sex but not wanted to lose his original organ, or might have suffered from gender confusion over having been born one but never known about his original condition if his parents had an operation done quickly. I was trying to understand why he might shun sexual intimacy and be a tranny who didn't want to lose his male genitals (the porn videos might have been shot before an operation). Maybe I was over-thinking things.
But when someone asked the other day I dont know , but I would think female would be inner and not seen his male stuff but folks here have said "Little Luka" so when it was mentioned I went more for psychological damage stuff ............ and the body dysmorphic notion, today, forgot who posted it , is wildly accurate !

No_Stone_Unturned
06-19-2012, 04:04 PM
Why drag poor Scout and Jem into this??? :floorlaugh:

To see Atticus Finch nail this dude to the wall.......for life! :rocker:

CARIIS
06-19-2012, 04:05 PM
Guess what I was thinking was that he might have been born as one and had an operation but still lived with certain stigmas, that he might have had an operation to change his sex but not wanted to lose his original organ, or might have suffered from gender confusion over having been born one but never known about his original condition if his parents had an operation done quickly. I was trying to understand why he might shun sexual intimacy and be a tranny who didn't want to lose his male genitals (the porn videos might have been shot before an operation). Maybe I was over-thinking things.
You were not S (overthinking _ I too have pondered much _ I think humans, as cognitive entities need to put stuff in an understandable "place" and he sure is an interesting enigma) - LM is a complicated , scary, fascinating mess of a <modsnip>

CARIIS
06-19-2012, 04:06 PM
As the appointed go-to know-it-all on all things male anatomy and gay (Thanks FootballMom and the countless people who apparently agree with FB LOL), I want to end speculation that Magnotta is a hermaphrodite; sorry to end everyone's dual part obsession but he only has boy parts.
Would externally, one be able to tell , like visually male out, female in, your with me ?

No_Stone_Unturned
06-19-2012, 04:06 PM
Is there a video of the court appearance, or are we not allowed "inside" Canadian courts?

Mostly it's no cameras in high-profile court cases. This one is high-profile.

Man, I love my country!! :rocker:

Mbshafeena
06-19-2012, 04:07 PM
appreciate the nature or quality of your actions, OR you must not know that they are wrong.

I am sure he "appreciated" that his action would lead to the death of his victim....
I think he realized what he did as he fled the country so afraid to be found out.

DD_bwest
06-19-2012, 04:08 PM
Yes, and there are also things called parents. ;)

Having said that, it was a simple (less than 7 minute) hearing today, which can be educational for children.

I'm sure the judge will use his discretionary powers to limit age groups in future hearings, depending on the content.

im actually impressed with a 13yo taking true interest in the legal system. He wants to be a lawyer and wants to learn. I say let him, why block his intellectual curiosity? He seems pretty bright so far, so he would probably know how to watch the video if he wanted to..

jeanne
06-19-2012, 04:08 PM
Would externally, one be able to tell , like visually male out, female in, your with me ?

<modsnip>! :maddening:

OEJ
06-19-2012, 04:09 PM
Guess what I was thinking was that he might have been born as one and had an operation but still lived with certain stigmas, that he might have had an operation to change his sex but not wanted to lose his original organ, or might have suffered from gender confusion over having been born one but never known about his original condition if his parents had an operation done quickly. I was trying to understand why he might shun sexual intimacy and be a tranny who didn't want to lose his male genitals (the porn videos might have been shot before an operation). Maybe I was over-thinking things.


He may have been just trying on yet another identity. He may have been uncomfortable with more or less normal forms of sexual intimacy because his sexual tastes go in another direction. He said his first memory of sexual arousal was at 8 years old watching someone being eaten by a shark in the movie, Jaws.

prima.facie
06-19-2012, 04:09 PM
LOL! Yes, HChi...do tell. Yeah, but I "looked." Anatomically correct. Maybe a little "thin."

puts a whole new meaning to a nerd's pocket protector...everyone needs a place to store their pencils.....




:what:

No_Stone_Unturned
06-19-2012, 04:11 PM
<modsnip>! :maddening:


Encore une fois aujourd'hui - merci beaucoup!! Ca suffit, n'est-ce pas? :)

jeanne
06-19-2012, 04:13 PM
Encore une fois aujourd'hui - merci beaucoup!! Ca suffit, n'est-ce pas? :)

vraiment!!!!

prima.facie
06-19-2012, 04:14 PM
Lineup at courthouse for Magnotta appearance

MONTREAL - There's a lineup at the Montreal courthouse for Luka Rocco Magnotta's expected 2:30 p.m. appearance.

Journalists and curious onlookers have gathered outside the courtroom. A half-dozen Grade 7 students, still wearing their school uniforms, are waiting patiently in line.
One 13-year-old boy named Nykolas, who hopes to be a lawyer one day, says he wants to see how the defence team operates.

The students are not accompanied by an adult.

A woman just ahead of the students in line says she wants to attend Magnotta's appearance because of the intense media attention around the case.

Allegations that the killer posted a grisly video of his crime online also encouraged the retired 76-year-old to show up.

When asked why she was so interested in the case, Michelle, who only gave her first name, said: "It's hot."

http://www.1310news.com/news/national/article/374901--lineup-at-courthouse-for-magnotta-appearance


i think my face has just hit the ground....
dang. i cant even think of anything else to say.....:waitasec:

Mbshafeena
06-19-2012, 04:14 PM
As the appointed go-to know-it-all on all things male anatomy and gay (Thanks FootballMom and the countless people who apparently agree with FB LOL), I want to end speculation that Magnotta is a hermaphrodite; sorry to end everyone's dual part obsession but he only has boy parts.

He has male private parts unless he photoshopped that in too, ROFL. Nothing would surprise me.:what:

nursebeeme
06-19-2012, 04:15 PM
peeps... unless there is something out there that says this guy is a hermaphrodite let's drop it and move on please... And also... nurse does not speak french but I do know how to use babble fish just so you know :nurse:

CARIIS
06-19-2012, 04:15 PM
Mostly it's no cameras in high-profile court cases. This one is high-profile.

Man, I love my country!! :rocker:
I am American , traditionially, will Canada allow the WHOLE thing (like OJ) to be broadcast?

fittzi
06-19-2012, 04:15 PM
Encore une fois aujourd'hui - merci beaucoup!! Ca suffit, n'est-ce pas? :)

Oui, CA SUFFIT!

prima.facie
06-19-2012, 04:17 PM
He has male private parts unless he photoshopped that in too, ROFL. Nothing would surprise me.:what:

oh come on...if he were going to photoshop a male sexual organ, you think that would have been his choice?


:floorlaugh:


(i so needed to laugh today)....

Sealuzna
06-19-2012, 04:17 PM
im actually impressed with a 13yo taking true interest in the legal system. He wants to be a lawyer and wants to learn. I say let him, why block his intellectual curiosity? He seems pretty bright so far, so he would probably know how to watch the video if he wanted to..He'll probably make a great lawyer someday with his natural curiousity and initiative. :)

HastingsChi
06-19-2012, 04:17 PM
If I may add to your post/thoughts here - it seems to me that many people are obsessed with the sexual element of this case almost moreso than the murder itself! And, it's driving me nuts!! :maddening: :nuts: :maddening:

Spot-on No_Stone.

Mbshafeena
06-19-2012, 04:18 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by No_Stone_Unturned
Encore une fois aujourd'hui - merci beaucoup!! Ca suffit, n'est-ce pas?

vraiment!!!!

Je pense que nous sommes tous fatigué :-)

No_Stone_Unturned
06-19-2012, 04:19 PM
I am American , traditionially, will Canada allow the WHOLE thing (like OJ) to be broadcast?


NO WAY!! We don't broadcast trials. There will be a gag order but little bits and pieces will leak out during the trial. We won't know the entire story until the trial is over and he's been sentenced.

Did that help??

nursebeeme
06-19-2012, 04:20 PM
peeps... unless there is something out there that says this guy is a hermaphrodite let's drop it and more on please... And also... nurse does not speak french but I do know how to use babble fish just so you know :nurse:

bumping up! please post responsibly... Come on you guys. Also if you have a problem with a post alert it... do not POST about it.

Mbshafeena
06-19-2012, 04:21 PM
peeps... unless there is something out there that says this guy is a hermaphrodite let's drop it and more on please... And also... nurse does not speak french but I do know how to use babble fish just so you know :nurse:

lol, well if I start now and teach everyone french here so we are all ready for the trial you won`t need babble fish :-). Just don`t use that needle on me nursebeme. I hate needles. ;-)

I think people are tired and need some sleep like I do. Stayed up way past my bedtime last night.

CARIIS
06-19-2012, 04:21 PM
NO WAY!! We don't broadcast trials. There will be a gag order but little bits and pieces will leak out during the trial. We won't know the entire story until the trial is over and he's been sentenced.

Did that help??
God that is gonna be years!

CARIIS
06-19-2012, 04:23 PM
TY! Way off base !
Im new, should I delete mine?

HastingsChi
06-19-2012, 04:23 PM
Posted this yesterday and ask if a Mod might add it to the OP

Highly Suggested Read for Everyone

The Canadian Justice System and the Media
www.cjc-ccm.gc.ca/cmslib/general/news_pub_other_cjsm_en.pdf

A great primer on the role of the media in the Canadian justice system published by the Canadian Judicial Council.

I've found this to be a endlessly useful resource to help me, as a non-Canadian, better understand the role and limitations of the media coverage in Canada criminal cases such as this.

prima.facie
06-19-2012, 04:24 PM
bumping up! please post responsibly... Come on you guys. Also if you have a problem with a post alert it... do not POST about it.

sorry...been one of those days :/

:violin: << yeah i know. lol

CARIIS
06-19-2012, 04:24 PM
Im new, should I delete mine?
Funny i Just thought ugh something else to figure out how to do ! OK I will try wish me luck !

No_Stone_Unturned
06-19-2012, 04:25 PM
God that is gonna be years!


Yes, it will be many years. There's a cop killer in Toronto (he killed the cop TWO winters ago) and he's still awaiting trial.

We're a patient bunch up here. :rocker:

Scientific
06-19-2012, 04:28 PM
Yeah, I've considered the things you mention here. I've just brainstormed a lot, trying to map out possibilities rather than sticking with known facts only. Maybe I should have kept things simpler but didn't feel there was a whole lot of known data to work with.

If his first sexual memory is real then perhaps in his infancy or childhood his brain learned through abuse or neglect, to link pleasure with pain. I've read some literature that supports this possibility for the development of a psychopathic brain.

He may have been just trying on yet another identity. He may have been uncomfortable with more or less normal forms of sexual intimacy because his sexual tastes go in another direction. He said his first memory of sexual arousal was at 8 years old watching someone being eaten by a shark in the movie, Jaws.

CARIIS
06-19-2012, 04:29 PM
Im new, should I delete mine?
Cant find any of it so I assume the whole exchange was deleted ?

nursebeeme
06-19-2012, 04:29 PM
Posted this yesterday and ask if a Mod might add it to the OP

Highly Suggested Read for Everyone

The Canadian Justice System and the Media
www.cjc-ccm.gc.ca/cmslib/general/news_pub_other_cjsm_en.pdf

A great primer on the role of the media in the Canadian justice system published by the Canadian Judicial Council.

I've found this to be a endlessly useful resource to help me, as a non-Canadian, better understand the role and limitations of the media coverage in Canada criminal cases such as this.

Your wish is my command (added to OP)

CARIIS
06-19-2012, 04:30 PM
Posted this yesterday and ask if a Mod might add it to the OP

Highly Suggested Read for Everyone

The Canadian Justice System and the Media
www.cjc-ccm.gc.ca/cmslib/general/news_pub_other_cjsm_en.pdf

A great primer on the role of the media in the Canadian justice system published by the Canadian Judicial Council.

I've found this to be a endlessly useful resource to help me, as a non-Canadian, better understand the role and limitations of the media coverage in Canada criminal cases such as this.
If there would be one main diff between Us and Can what would it be?

nursebeeme
06-19-2012, 04:30 PM
Cant find any of it so I assume the whole exchange was deleted ?

yes it was.... we are moving along now......... :sweep:

Justme84
06-19-2012, 04:30 PM
My goodness guys!
I posted this on last thread! Thank god it closed. My first sentence was suppossed to read : I do not like LM. Well lucky piere "not" was not in the sentance! I freaked ugh god!
Let me repeat I do not like LM!

Morning all!
First and foremost I do NOT like LM!

The notions surrounding his intelligence are interesting. I am with Scientific on this one! I think he is bright. This belief does not translate to my respecting him! The chronicity and depth of his ability to create all his alias, lies, stories, and tales most certainly indicate that he is NOT psychotic!

There is a difference between smart and bright (alter ego stuff, creativity in just being all over the internet as different entities , different jobs, different ages, names, vocations, each with different family histories etc. etc. .

Pause folks, --- what do screenwriters, novelists and playwrights do? The exact same thing! Create characters in depth. Create names, identities, looks, mannerisms etc. My notions surrounding him being bright are centered in the “creativity” demonstrated throughout his entire “created” existence.

Again folks – when I shared my notions regarding his IQ earlier some folks were angry. I am not saying his behaviors and or his life were positive. I am saying that bright/ creativity is most def. a component of intelligence. Solid intelligence.

The capacity to anticipate others needs, in order to manipulate effectively, are also indicative of intelligence. And from what we all have learned this guy’ face should be next to world “manipulate” in dictionaries everywhere. The capacity for that kind of deviance (think Bundy?) is correlated with intelligence. High intelligence!

And if we think about it, there most certainly (it is beguiling though!) nothing, “dumb”, in his planning, to assume, that the garbage folks WOULD HAVE picked up the suitcase. In fact, for some time I have wondered if that was fate of some sort. By this I mean it was not a really big error on his part. (LM’S) at all. Twist of fate?

His pathological narcissism (I am so smart) is what got him caught not stupidity – there is a difference! But wait; let’s even hold off right here! And roll with me here for a sec guys: What you all think: of this: He split thinking suitcase was gone. The notion that he went out for his first couple of nights over there (evidently with no effort at disguise) to me indicates that he was not really aware of how fast he was being tied to everything.
– I do not think he had a clue for the first 3-4 days that LE knew what he did (his apt/linked the video to him/learning all his internet proclivities etc.).

Then let’s move on a couple more days – he starts to see his face everywhere. Oh S*** so even at some level going to the café that day could be interpreted as heck, I better really find out what it going on, as opposed to him being stupid. In fact, considering the dynamics of what was unfolding, it is what a prudent individual, on the run would do – find out what the “enemy” (!) know and are doing! That is survival……………………….
How I read this is that you place high importance
in resourcefulness and imagination. I think your last line said much
on what I think his "bright" behaviors are all about. It's merely survival.
As a manipulator of other people, a street hustler who has
to be seen a certain way to get paid, he has developed
the skill to create elaborate lies. For the sake of perspective,
Casey Anthony had those skills as well. She had
a story for everything and kept them all straight.

I do find it interesting but in no way would I call
him bright for his ability to manipulate. Even in your
own reference you define someone much
more astute in Ted Bundy was in fact brighter
than LM intellectually and in his evils.

HastingsChi
06-19-2012, 04:31 PM
Yes, it will be many years. There's a cop killer in Toronto (he killed the cop TWO winters ago) and he's still awaiting trial.

We're a patient bunch up here. :rocker:

Would a log detailing Magnotta's belongings when arrested in Berlin be made available to media?

Sunday
06-19-2012, 04:31 PM
Of all our opinions, I am sure you are right (maybe we all are?)! He seems to be a huge narcissist, possibly with body dysmorphic disorder.

Someone had mentioned BDD earlier after looking at the video for the plastic surgery show. It's possible, IMO.

Body dysmorphic disorder - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Body_dysmorphic_disorder)

Umm, yeah, he nearly admits to body dismorphic disorder. Sadly enough, we ignore this reality amongst the male population. WTF would possess a guy to permanently damage his body via steriods like so many have and do for so many years? Reverse sexism.

CARIIS
06-19-2012, 04:31 PM
Your wish is my command (added to OP)
Also, overall would Canada be quicker or slower than US , cause boy oh boy, ours is endless..............................

CARIIS
06-19-2012, 04:32 PM
yes it was.... we are moving along now......... :sweep:
That little ICON is adorable!

Kimster
06-19-2012, 04:32 PM
I've been asked about posting in other languages.

As long as the poster also interprets the post to English, I have no problem with it. We don't have any bilingual moderators at this time. :tyou:

HastingsChi
06-19-2012, 04:33 PM
Your wish is my command (added to OP)

You're the greatest (even though as someone terrified of needles your avatar frightens me each time I see it...) :blushing:

No_Stone_Unturned
06-19-2012, 04:33 PM
Would a log detailing Magnotta's belongings when arrested in Berlin be made available to media?


I don't know but I highly doubt it now that he's here in Canada with Canadian laws involved.

Kimster
06-19-2012, 04:35 PM
You're the greatest (even though as someone terrified of needles your avatar frightens me each time I see it...) :blushing:

That's the "point".

:floorlaugh:

Sorry....couldn't help myself!

:giggle:

Sunday
06-19-2012, 04:36 PM
How I read this is that you place high importance
in resourcefulness and imagination. I think your last line said much
on what I think his "bright" behaviors are all about. It's merely survival.
As a manipulator of other people, a street hustler who has
to be seen a certain way to get paid, he has developed
the skill to create elaborate lies. For the sake of perspective,
Casey Anthony had those skills as well. She had
a story for everything and kept them all straight.

I do find it interesting but in no way would I call
him bright for his ability to manipulate. Even in your
own reference you define someone much
more astute in Ted Bundy was in fact brighter
than LM intellectually and in his evils.

Haha. The Artful Dodger, no?

CARIIS
06-19-2012, 04:37 PM
Umm, yeah, he nearly admits to body dismorphic disorder. Sadly enough, we ignore this reality amongst the male population. WTF would possess a guy to permanently damage his body via steriods like so many have and do for so many years? Reverse sexism.
And the whole James Dean thing! I do not know , do we KNOW , he had all that surgury that stuff is expensive yes? Also did he ever get the surgery he was on that tape asking for (the stuff something about devil horns or something on a friend of his......

No_Stone_Unturned
06-19-2012, 04:38 PM
I've been asked about posting in other languages.

As long as the poster also interprets the post to English, I have no problem with it. We don't have any bilingual moderators at this time. :tyou:

Hi Mods = Allo Mods!

Shall post in two languages = Je vais ecrire en deux langues!

Thanks for your help = Merci beaucoup pour votre aide!!

:biggrin:

We're tired right now = Nous sommes fatigues maintenant!

CARIIS
06-19-2012, 04:38 PM
How I read this is that you place high importance
in resourcefulness and imagination. I think your last line said much
on what I think his "bright" behaviors are all about. It's merely survival.
As a manipulator of other people, a street hustler who has
to be seen a certain way to get paid, he has developed
the skill to create elaborate lies. For the sake of perspective,
Casey Anthony had those skills as well. She had
a story for everything and kept them all straight.

I do find it interesting but in no way would I call
him bright for his ability to manipulate. Even in your
own reference you define someone much
more astute in Ted Bundy was in fact brighter
than LM intellectually and in his evils.
TY Appreciate your notions! This is addictive !

dallydilly
06-19-2012, 04:41 PM
And the whole James Dean thing! I do not know , do we KNOW , he had all that surgury that stuff is expensive yes? Also did he ever get the surgery he was on that tape asking for (the stuff something about devil horns or something on a friend of his......

No he FAILED to get through mwahahahahah
:pullhair:

nursebeeme
06-19-2012, 04:42 PM
That's the "point".

:floorlaugh:

Sorry....couldn't help myself!

:giggle:

I think your light saber and pink space ship are waaaaay skeeeerier!

:escape:

nursebeeme
06-19-2012, 04:43 PM
Hi Mods = Allo Mods!

Shall post in two languages = Je vais ecrire en deux langues!

Thanks for your help = Merci beaucoup pour votre aide!!

:biggrin:

We're tired right now = Nous sommes fatigues maintenant!

gracias: thank you
danke shon: thank you

for your post (cannot translate that into any known language!)

:lol:

BorgQueen
06-19-2012, 04:46 PM
And the whole James Dean thing! I do not know , do we KNOW , he had all that surgury that stuff is expensive yes? Also did he ever get the surgery he was on that tape asking for (the stuff something about devil horns or something on a friend of his......

No, we don't know that he has had surgery. HE has claimed he has, but if you compare his pictures of when he was a child to now, there really isn't any difference. His eyebrows are bigger and his face is thinner, neither of these things need surgery.
In my opinion, he never had any surgery. There is no proof of it, and it really does not look like he has.

CARIIS
06-19-2012, 04:47 PM
TY Appreciate your notions! This is addictive !
Tech question folks, starting to think I may be doing this the "complicated way"! If I am reading page 2 out of 6 -- and want to respond to post on pag 2, I am clicking on the post quick icon. But then it takes me to the end - page 6 . So I go back and go back two pages and am going back and forth, up down etc!!

Is there a better way ! or am I doing it right. I am left brain (!) and remembering what page and post I am on before a response is well -- right brain !

I have got to be doing this wrong!

Amandes
06-19-2012, 04:48 PM
gracias: thank you
danke shon: thank you

for your post (cannot translate that into any known language!)

:lol:

'thank you' = Danke schön and 'for your post' = für deinen Beitrag :D

Sunday
06-19-2012, 04:51 PM
oh come on...if he were going to photoshop a male sexual organ, you think that would have been his choice?


:floorlaugh:


(i so needed to laugh today)....

For Christ's sake, THANK YOU! :)

I'm going to go out on a limb here (Ga! I feel like I'm offending someone w/every sort of comment/analogy like this!) and say that he was not even very skilled w/Photoshop or any other editing software anyway. He could have broadened his shoulders, given himself some pecs, larger parts, etc. Or perhaps he may have embraced his boyish scrawniness? IDK WTF I am talking about - all pure speculation (like the rest of you). Personally, I think he is quite attractive minus his Sharpie'd brows. Frankly, I'm not hung up on muscles and large penises, so none of that is relavent to me. I think people just love to hate him, and maybe rightfully so. Unless you are a total empath, you will have no use for him at this point.

sillybilly
06-19-2012, 04:55 PM
peeps... unless there is something out there that says this guy is a hermaphrodite let's drop it and move on please... And also... nurse does not speak french but I do know how to use babble fish just so you know :nurse:

oh nurse ... too ay intelligent et magnifeek !! See, i babble in French AND English ;)

CARIIS
06-19-2012, 04:58 PM
For Christ's sake, THANK YOU! :)

I'm going to go out on a limb here (Ga! I feel like I'm offending someone w/every sort of comment/analogy like this!) and say that he was not even very skilled w/Photoshop or any other editing software anyway. He could have broadened his shoulders, given himself some pecs, larger parts, etc. Or perhaps he may have embraced his boyish scrawniness? IDK WTF I am talking about - all pure speculation (like the rest of you). Personally, I think he is quite attractive minus his Sharpie'd brows. Frankly, I'm not hung up on muscles and large penises, so none of that is relavent to me. I think people just love to hate him, and maybe rightfully so. Unless you are a total empath, you will have no use for him at this point.
Yeh . I thought there were some pics where he was, as he described himself, fab perfect or whatever -- but most of em I thought he looked very dainty and not attractive, while in tons of em he looked just MAD! Would be interesting to read what others think in terms (male or female) regarding his looks.

Like your notions S your interesting!

Sunday
06-19-2012, 04:58 PM
Tech question folks, starting to think I may be doing this the "complicated way"! If I am reading page 2 out of 6 -- and want to respond to post on pag 2, I am clicking on the post quick icon. But then it takes me to the end - page 6 . So I go back and go back two pages and am going back and forth, up down etc!!

Is there a better way ! or am I doing it right. I am left brain (!) and remembering what page and post I am on before a response is well -- right brain !

I have got to be doing this wrong!

Yeah, I am still WS challenged myself. I wish that I could just search my posts and have all the responses to those comments show up as well, but they don't. I'm all over the friggin place making random comments w/out followup or reply. I'm a friggin 'tard. Eventually I'll figure it all out!

sillybilly
06-19-2012, 05:00 PM
NO WAY!! We don't broadcast trials. There will be a gag order but little bits and pieces will leak out during the trial. We won't know the entire story until the trial is over and he's been sentenced.

Did that help??

I think a gag order would only apply between the preliminary (if there is one) and trial. If you recall the Rafferty trial, we got tweets from the courtroom as they were happening.

Sealuzna
06-19-2012, 05:01 PM
More details about today's spectators, plus the prosecutor says he will not be giving any further interviews until after the trial is over:


http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/canada/lineup-at-courthouse-for-magnotta-appearance-159593115.html

Sunday
06-19-2012, 05:02 PM
Yeh . I thought there were some pics where he was, as he described himself, fab perfect or whatever -- but most of em I thought he looked very dainty and not attractive, while in tons of em he looked just MAD! Would be interesting to read what others think in terms (male or female) regarding his looks.

Like your notions S your interesting!

Well, spank you very much! :P

CARIIS
06-19-2012, 05:02 PM
Yeah, I am still WS challenged myself. I wish that I could just search my posts and have all the responses to those comments show up as well, but they don't. I'm all over the friggin place making random comments w/out followup or reply. I'm a friggin 'tard. Eventually I'll figure it all out!
That is what I have been telling myself the last 24 hours! And it is funny, when you answered " I wish" i thought gosh I do not even know how I wished it worked but I MUST be doing this wrong! That is funny!
Did not anticpate the addictive quality of this yesterday when I did my first post!
A Few minutes ago it was ugh, ask for help I can't be doing this right!
Is multi quote better ! Whew

HastingsChi
06-19-2012, 05:06 PM
Justin Ling's latest article on today's court appearance:
From Xtra! Canada's Gay & Lesbian News:

Luka Magnotta pleads not guilty
Prosecutors will soon meet with Lin Jun's family
http://www.xtra.ca/public/National/Luka_Magnotta_pleads_not_guilty-12166.aspx

Highly suggested read.

I'm happy to share that Justin let me know that he will be covering this until the conclusion of the trial.

Sunday
06-19-2012, 05:09 PM
More details about today's spectators, plus the prosecutor says he will not be giving any further interviews until after the trial is over:


http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/canada/lineup-at-courthouse-for-magnotta-appearance-159593115.html

One of the comments to the article states that he requested a psychiatric evaluation along w/his NG plea. Is that correct?

CARIIS
06-19-2012, 05:11 PM
Well, spank you very much! :P
Sunday
We Must be doing it wrong! In this day and age.......................ahh eagerly awaiting guidance from the many much wiser than me here ! Nother funny thing last night a poster said something like your answering yourself, I thought oh god, no idea where I am in terms of navigating!

sillybilly
06-19-2012, 05:11 PM
Tech question folks, starting to think I may be doing this the "complicated way"! If I am reading page 2 out of 6 -- and want to respond to post on pag 2, I am clicking on the post quick icon. But then it takes me to the end - page 6 . So I go back and go back two pages and am going back and forth, up down etc!!

Is there a better way ! or am I doing it right. I am left brain (!) and remembering what page and post I am on before a response is well -- right brain !

I have got to be doing this wrong!

i.e. After you submit and see your post on Pg 6, go the back arrow at the top left of your page, right click, and click on "ARRESTED-Luka Rocco Magnotta ...". It will take you back to Pg 2 or whatever previous page you were viewing.

Sealuzna
06-19-2012, 05:14 PM
One of the comments to the article states that he requested a psychiatric evaluation along w/his NG plea. Is that correct?
No, that is incorrect. Luka only said one word today: "OK".

His lawyer stated that he may be asking the court for a 672.11(b) on Thursday.

nursebeeme
06-19-2012, 05:16 PM
CARIIS Here is a link to forum finesse... has all sorts of topics to help you navigate, etc (including how to use taptalk... I think someone else asked about that earlier)... simply check out all the topics there

Forum Finesse - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community

sillybilly
06-19-2012, 05:16 PM
Another interesting article wrt who Panaccio has defended:

When Quebec provincial police launched Operation Piranha in February 2004 to investigate a drug-smuggling ring with links to traditional organized crime and the Mafia, they likely weren’t expecting to put the bite on a Montreal lawyer.

But found in their net after about 150 Sûeté du Québec officers carried out a mid-March 2006 raid was Louis D. Pasquin, no stranger to drug dealers or major police probes as a well-known defender of bikers and mobsters from the Hells Angels to the Montreal Mafia’s notorious Cotroni clan.


full article at:
http://www.canadianlawyermag.com/Gangsta-rap.html

CARIIS
06-19-2012, 05:16 PM
i.e. After you submit and see your post on Pg 6, go the back arrow at the top left of your page, right click, and click on "ARRESTED-Luka Rocco Magnotta ...". It will take you back to Pg 2 or whatever previous page you were viewing.
Oh my god, you are a "lifesaver" much better TYTYTY!
Sunday I hope you read this too!

Justme84
06-19-2012, 05:19 PM
Yeh . I thought there were some pics where he was, as he described himself, fab perfect or whatever -- but most of em I thought he looked very dainty and not attractive, while in tons of em he looked just MAD! Would be interesting to read what others think in terms (male or female) regarding his looks.

Like your notions S your interesting!

I have seen photos where I felt he was attractive but the majority
Of them he looked too overdone for my tastes
I also think he's very fake, without makeup and photoshop,
he is not a man I would guess was a model at all.
I am a straight female BTW, for reference.

Also based on what I have seen in interviews and
such, he is way too cocky ( be it falsely so) for
my blood. I have a soft spot for men who are humble.

BorgQueen
06-19-2012, 05:25 PM
Justin Ling's latest article on today's court appearance:
From Xtra! Canada's Gay & Lesbian News:

Luka Magnotta pleads not guilty
Prosecutors will soon meet with Lin Jun's family
http://www.xtra.ca/public/National/Luka_Magnotta_pleads_not_guilty-12166.aspx

Highly suggested read.

I'm happy to share that Justin let me know that he will be covering this until the conclusion of the trial.

Thank you (and thank him). Was the most detailed article I haven't finished reading yet so far.
Going the insanity route, eh.... the only thing insane about him is that he is insanely devastatingly good looking. :woohoo:
Personally, I think he knows exactly what he is doing. He is not 'insane' to the point where he is not criminally responsible. He was on a quest for fame. never got it, so he went for infamy. Simple. And my opinion.


And good luck to him covering this trial. Hopefully it isn't too exhausting, physically and psychologically.

HastingsChi
06-19-2012, 05:26 PM
Body Dysmorphic Disorder : A Personal Perspective

There has been a great deal of discussion today about body dysmorphic disorder and I've tried to avoid discussing this topic because it is something I am way too aware of as it is something I have experienced; it is something that combined with anorexia athletica almost killed me. Body dysmophic disorder and/or male eating disorders are very serious issues.

I'll share with you some of my story, which received notable media visibility years ago, to better help understand this condition:

Looking back on college, which I began as a 220-pound college-football player who had never had eaten Lucky Charms or Trix but always had a strict, healthy diet. After Freshman year I discarded football to enjoy the other aspects of college life: internships, bar-tending, friends, taking in junk food & booze and typical college fare. My fit, healthy athlete's body had turned into 320 pounds of YUCK.

I never had been shunned or made fun of because of my weight. I always was the life of the party. I never was made to feel awkward. I was a fun guy. It was never an issue. I hear people say that overweight people are depressed and unhappy. I was just the opposite.

It wasn't until I got my college graduation pictures back in the mail that I really saw myself and was horrified by the way I looked; who is this tremendously fat person in these photos? OMG it's me.

So I decided to go back to my roots, as a competitive swimmer since the age of 5 and 3 sport athlete in high school I knew what I needed to do: rediscover my passion for athletics and get back in shape. I went to one of those fitness centers with multiple locations and joined; I'm sure that the woman who signed me up took one look at me and probably thought I was an easy commission and that I'd never be back.

However I went back to the gym morning's and evening's seven days a week; it became more than a workout, it became an obsession. What began as a fun thing to do for myself before and after work began to run my life-- as my commitment to fitness continued and the weight dropped fast, I noticed all of the compliments on my appearance I received from people. As someone who was already well-liked and not shunned for being fat, these compliments added fuel to my passion for working out. In order to cut out fast foods I became a vegetarian.

I began my workouts at 320-pounds in June and by October of that same year I was competing in running competitions and down to about 170-pounds (statistically my ideal weight) and should have gone into maintenance mode. Unfortunately, I did not; I actually became more obsessed with my fitness and appearance. When I looked into the mirror, I saw the 320-pound person in my college graduation photos looking back at me. No matter what I did or what mirror I used, the 170-pound me saw the 320-pound me in the mirror. I was working out for 90 minutes twice a day. I became obsessed with my caloric intake and kept a diary of everything I ate which averaged a caloric intake of 320 calories per day.

By February (less than 8 months after joining the gym) I weighed 120 pounds and still saw the 320 pound man in the mirror. I shunned my friends and became a totally different person who was not pleasant (no longer the well-liked, jovial person everyone adored), uncomfortable in my own skin and in total denial about my condition. In that same months I traveled to a family function and my family essentially staged an intervention in a very smart manner. The doctors evaluated me and told me that if my anorexia continued I would be dead within months. I was also made to agree to begin to talk with a friend of my brother-in-law's who is a sports nutritionist, sports psychologist and multi-sport coach.

I begrudgingly agreed to this and he saved my life, literally, by reprogramming me to understand that food is not the enemy but the fuel for training and racing. To assist with this we began a plan that I would start to train for triathlons and, in doing so, rebuild my body and see the importance of food. I also began the long process of beginning to deal with my body dysmorphic disorder; not an easy process at all.

A few months after beginning to rebuild my body and relationships in my life and try not to see the 320-pound man in the mirror anymore, I competed in my first triathlon which I placed 2nd or 3rd in my age group. Soon after photos once again impacted my life: I saw the photos of this fit, svelte guy in a speedo surrounded by other folks in speedos and thought the fit, svelte guy was in as good or better shape than the others; that fit, svelte guy was me.

Years and countless Ironman triathlon competitions later I write this a happy, fit, healthy person who truly loves and appreciates life and those in my life.

I could ramble on about this for pages but please understand that both anorexia and body dysmorphic disorder are serious conditions which are never cured but one has to deal with every day in order to not relapse.

Thanks for reading this.

CARIIS
06-19-2012, 05:30 PM
Body Dysmorphic Disorder : A Personal Perspective

There has been a great deal of discussion today about body dysmorphic disorder and I've tried to avoid discussing this topic because it is something I am way too aware of as it is something I have experienced; it is something that combined with anorexia athletica almost killed me. Body dysmophic disorder and/or male eating disorders are very serious issues.

I'll share with you some of my story, which received notable media visibility years ago, to better help understand this condition:

Looking back on college, which I began as a 220-pound college-football player who had never had eaten Lucky Charms or Trix but always had a strict, healthy diet. After Freshman year I discarded football to enjoy the other aspects of college life: internships, bar-tending, friends, taking in junk food & booze and typical college fare. My fit, healthy athlete's body had turned into 320 pounds of YUCK.

I never had been shunned or made fun of because of my weight. I always was the life of the party. I never was made to feel awkward. I was a fun guy. It was never an issue. I hear people say that overweight people are depressed and unhappy. I was just the opposite.

It wasn't until I got my college graduation pictures back in the mail that I really saw myself and was horrified by the way I looked; who is this tremendously fat person in these photos? OMG it's me.

So I decided to go back to my roots, as a competitive swimmer since the age of 5 and 3 sport athlete in high school I knew what I needed to do: rediscover my passion for athletics and get back in shape. I went to one of those fitness centers with multiple locations and joined; I'm sure that the woman who signed me up took one look at me and probably thought I was an easy commission and that I'd never be back.

However I went back to the gym morning's and evening's seven days a week; it became more than a workout, it became an obsession. What began as a fun thing to do for myself before and after work began to run my life-- as my commitment to fitness continued and the weight dropped fast, I noticed all of the compliments on my appearance I received from people. As someone who was already well-liked and not shunned for being fat, these compliments added fuel to my passion for working out. In order to cut out fast foods I became a vegetarian.

I began my workouts at 320-pounds in June and by October of that same year I was competing in running competitions and down to about 170-pounds (statistically my ideal weight) and should have gone into maintenance mode. Unfortunately, I did not; I actually became more obsessed with my fitness and appearance. When I looked into the mirror, I saw the 320-pound person in my college graduation photos looking back at me. No matter what I did or what mirror I used, the 170-pound me saw the 320-pound me in the mirror. I was working out for 90 minutes twice a day. I became obsessed with my caloric intake and kept a diary of everything I ate which averaged a caloric intake of 320 calories per day.

By February (less than 8 months after joining the gym) I weighed 120 pounds and still saw the 320 pound man in the mirror. I shunned my friends and became a totally different person who was not pleasant (no longer the well-liked, jovial person everyone adored), uncomfortable in my own skin and in total denial about my condition. In that same months I traveled to a family function and my family essentially staged an intervention in a very smart manner. The doctors evaluated me and told me that if my anorexia continued I would be dead within months. I was also made to agree to begin to talk with a friend of my brother-in-law's who is a sports nutritionist, sports psychologist and multi-sport coach.

I begrudgingly agreed to this and he saved my life, literally, by reprogramming me to understand that food is not the enemy but the fuel for training and racing. To assist with this we began a plan that I would start to train for triathlons and, in doing so, rebuild my body and see the importance of food. I also began the long process of beginning to deal with my body dysmorphic disorder; not an easy process at all.

A few months after beginning to rebuild my body and relationships in my life and try not to see the 320-pound man in the mirror anymore, I competed in my first triathlon which I placed 2nd or 3rd in my age group. Soon after photos once again impacted my life: I saw the photos of this fit, svelte guy in a speedo surrounded by other folks in speedos and thought the fit, svelte guy was in as good or better shape than the others; that fit, svelte guy was me.

Years and countless Ironman triathlon competitions later I write this a happy, fit, healthy person who truly loves and appreciates life and those in my life.

I could ramble on about this for pages but please understand that both anorexia and body dysmorphic disorder are serious conditions which are never cured but one has to deal with every day in order to not relapse.

Thanks for reading this.
Tnx for sharing ED tough stuff!

HastingsChi
06-19-2012, 05:31 PM
Thank you (and thank him). Was the most detailed article I haven't finished reading yet so far.
Going the insanity route, eh.... the only thing insane about him is that he is insanely devastatingly good looking. :woohoo:
Personally, I think he knows exactly what he is doing. He is not 'insane' to the point where he is not criminally responsible. He was on a quest for fame. never got it, so he went for infamy. Simple. And my opinion.


And good luck to him covering this trial. Hopefully it isn't too exhausting, physically and psychologically.

I asked him about friends that Magnotta had in Montreal in the past 18 months and he shared with me that neither he or anyone he knew of has been able to identify someone connected to Magnotta (friend, acquaintance) in the past 18 months.

Note: the people that have been previously discussed/interviewed and identified as former friends or lovers of Magnotta have NOT been part of his life for over 18 months.

I find something so troubling and empty about him having such a visible online presence (under his own name and countless personalities he created) and no real-world connections in the last 18 months... This is so key to me for some yet to be determined reason.

prima.facie
06-19-2012, 05:31 PM
For Christ's sake, THANK YOU! :)

I'm going to go out on a limb here (Ga! I feel like I'm offending someone w/every sort of comment/analogy like this!) and say that he was not even very skilled w/Photoshop or any other editing software anyway. He could have broadened his shoulders, given himself some pecs, larger parts, etc. Or perhaps he may have embraced his boyish scrawniness? IDK WTF I am talking about - all pure speculation (like the rest of you). Personally, I think he is quite attractive minus his Sharpie'd brows. Frankly, I'm not hung up on muscles and large penises, so none of that is relavent to me. I think people just love to hate him, and maybe rightfully so. Unless you are a total empath, you will have no use for him at this point.

eh i can see why/how some see him as attractive. physically speaking he is not ugly, IMO. he just would never be my type.....now mike rowe (for example).....well i shall stop there...:floorlaugh:

but when you know what kind of person he is, it is hard to see attractive features on him. i truly believe that beauty comes from w/in and your insides can greatly affect what your outside looks like. ive known people who were hot or attractive (models, etc) and once I got to know them, they became very physically unattractive to me. ive also known some who were not model material (by societies standards) and because i knew what was inside of them, I found them extremely physically attractive.

does that make sense?

i mean, there are crap loads of people out there who think justin bieber is all hot and sexy and all i want to do is vomit when i see him :giggle:

Sunday
06-19-2012, 05:34 PM
IDK... I feel that Luka emulates everything that is wrong with our society today. He is the poster child for the dysfunctional family and crappy parenting as well as self-absorbed, narcissistic, attention-needy, celebrity-inspired and internet-driven youth. You know, this was just the perfect combination of combination of ingredients. It's like a chemical reaction - you just keep dumping compound after compound together you are likely to eventually blow something up. You have a dysfunctional family, troubled childhood, abuse, mental illness, perhaps drugs, the media, the internet, horror movies, fame/celebrity, reality TV, sexual dysfunction, the deep web, blurred boundaries... the list is never ending. Well, world, look at what you created. Seems to me like this is a reaction that is unlikely to cease.

HastingsChi
06-19-2012, 05:38 PM
eh i can see why/how some see him as attractive. physically speaking he is not ugly, IMO. he just would never be my type.....now mike row (for example).....well i shall stop there...:floorlaugh:

but when you know what kind of person he is, it is hard to see attractive features on him. i truly believe that beauty comes from w/in and your insides can greatly affect what your outside looks like. ive known people who were hot or attractive (models, etc) and once I got to know them, they became very physically unattractive to me. ive also known some who were not model material (by societies standards) and because i knew what was inside of them, I found them extremely physically attractive.

does that make sense?

i mean, there are crap loads of people out there who think justin bieber is all hot and sexy and all i want to do is vomit when i see him :giggle:

Definitely makes sense prima. Appreciate, as always, your most interesting posts.

Hate to admit it but in his younger years from a purely superficial standpoint he appeared he was attractive, definitely someone I'd say hey to him out and about... But I imagine that it wouldn't take more than 10 minutes to see a bunch of red flags-- too many to even wanna smooch with him...

Scientific
06-19-2012, 05:44 PM
Precisely my sentiments on the matter (red flags galore). But I guess this topic only has so much relevancy to the case. One might ask if he was attractive enough like Ted Bundy to lure victims in, and so forth. But mostly it doesn't really seem pertinent to discuss his attractiveness. And lest we forget that age-old adage: Beauty is in the mind of the beholder.

~Peace~


Definitely makes sense prima. Appreciate, as always, your most interesting posts.

Hate to admit it but in his younger years from a purely superficial standpoint he appeared he was attractive, definitely someone I'd say hey to him out and about... But I imagine that it wouldn't take more than 10 minutes to see a bunch of red flags-- too many to even wanna smooch with him...

thedissent
06-19-2012, 05:45 PM
Since Susan reposted Scientific's original post on LRM's intelligence, I'm reposting my reply to Scientific.

In short: I disagree strongly with Scientific's suggestion that LRM is "brilliant" and has high intelligence/high IQ.

Below is Scientific's original post, and my original response and my own view: that LRM is of average intelligence, at most.

=======================

I'm guessing that his intelligence quotient is in the bright (but not genius) range (115-135) for a number of reasons:

1. his mind would become sharpened and hyper-vigilant due to his stressful, dangerous lifestyle

2. it seems that he knew a fair amount of both French and Russian. and he might have taught himself what he did know.

3. there is a tremendous amount of fantasy and imagination that went into his personas and his methods. he seems more the organized offender with an elaborate imagination than the disorganized offender.

4. while his online presence might create a sense of idiocy in some regards, it seems to have mostly been smoke and mirrors so our assessment of his intellect (via grammar and sentence structure) should not be based directly off these online writings

5. his writing reflects that he lacks higher education but it says almost nothing about his fluid intellect

6. he doesn't look dumb. i realize this is a vague point but mentally challenged people don't have that kind of poise. neither am I saying that he's got grace. he just doesn't look like an imbecile.

7. he traveled the world to some degree (yes, he doctored some travel photos but not all) and explored many alternate lifestyle choices, which seems to betray a curiosity and independence that would allow for higher intellect.

8. supposedly he was computer savvy enough to use proxies and the deep web. sure, anyone could use them but your average person is usually not going to be that aware of these things because of it being challenging to navigate initially.


The things that I believe prevented him from having a genius iq are a one-track obsessiveness, lack of an environment that would have nurtured his intellect rather than simply heightening his survival skills, emotional rigidity that may or may not have resulted from abuse, and a preference for self-indulgence over learning. Further, he wasn't able to escape the lifestyle that was crushing him; he simply adapted to it and let it warp him whereas someone smarter would have in time realized that there were other options. Drugs might also have played a part though I think the role of drugs in limiting intellect is often overstated.

As for his dignity and compassion and every other virtue, he gets a big fat zero...no, he gets a negative value.


I disagree with much of this. LRM's intelligence appears to me to be no more than average, if that.

Some responses.

1. First, I know of no sound scientific or social science evidence suggesting that intelligence is "honed" by "dangerous lifestyles". Moreover, it seems his life in recent years-- however he was making money-- mostly involved creating a fantasy world online, of lies and disinformation about himself (he may very well be the Internet's Greatest Troll Ever).

2. What evidence do we have that LRM knew a "fair amount" of French and Russian? He lived it Montreal; it's not unusual for someone of even below average intelligence to pick up some passable French in a city where French is the first language. As for Russian, we have no evidence that he could speak any of it. And like much of his false stories, lies, and other disinformation posted online, he plagiarized countless works on his website and many blogs; the "Russian" portions on his site are more likely simply cut-and-pastes from Google Translate. That seems more consistent with his tendency to create false stories about himself, including his "ties" to Russian mafia.

3. This is a personal opinion. I find much of his "imagined" world quite prosaic and most often (like his many blog posts) simply plagiarized or borrowed from movies, pop culture, and other objects of his obsessions: serial killers and violence. His song "True Faith" he uses in so many vids is ripped from American Psycho, and his mirror line (about him being a reflection of society) famously comes from Charles Manson. He lived in a fantasy world, no doubt. But I don't think you need to be highly intelligent to plagiarize and copy the many false stories LRM tells about himself.

LRM seems more often to me, to be a doofus who continually overestimates his own intelligence and persistently underestimates those pursuing him. That's typical of narcissists. And we can see it with the video and how quickly he was caught.

LRM is an attention seeker who quite obviously wanted to be caught; so he left blatant clues in the video (Casablanca) poster; but his execution of the crime was clumsy, with plenty of missteps and angles overlooked on his part. The suitcase clumsily left by his curb (where it was not picked up by the garbage collectors); being seen on video surveillance at the apartment at at the Canada Post; communicating on his phone in Europe. LRM expected police to link the kill video to him; but it was traditional police work that did him in, and quickly. This is not the result of a brilliant or intelligent mind.

As for the rest -- all of his online posts should be treated with skepticism, as he has a penchant for pathological lying and story telling. Moreover, "Looks" and "Travel" are not a statistically significant association with intelligence.

And I don't think it takes a genius to figure out how to negotiate the Internet, create YouTube pages, and troll blogs, 4chan, and even to download, install, and set up Tor in order to surf the Deep Web. A person with average intelligence and sufficient time (and commitment) could figure it out; especially given the amount of time that LRM obviously spent online. This was his world.

===

Due to a sampling bias, early research on psychopathy incorrectly found that psychopaths were typically above average intelligence. Subsequent research has shown no such association. Psychopaths come from a range of intelligence and IQ. People should not make the mistake of assuming LRM must be brilliant because he's a narcissistic psychopath who often lies about his own intelligence and IQ.

My assessment is that LRM is of fairly average intelligence, with a high degree of narcissism that leads him to overestimate his own intelligence and capabilities (and underestimate others). That is typical of a psychopath.

It is true that, at times, LRM writes more intelligently than others; but whenever that seems to be the case, someone reveals that his more "intelligent" writing has been copied or plagiarized from somewhere else.

Boodi Moovan was on here the other day talking about her group had gone through his website and sourced pretty much all his more "original" and more intelligent writing to other people and sources. That is, he plagiarized everything.

My theory, as previously stated, is that he's ultimately an attention seeker, which is necessary to feed his psychopathic egoism. So, as with his animal torture videos, he really did want the kill video to eventually be linked back to him, so he could have the fame (like other notorious serial killers); hence the YouTube sockpuppets posting about "1 Lunatic, 1 Icepick" before it was even made.

LRM expected the video to eventually be linked back to him; he just figured he would be long gone by then. He wasn't expecting the police to link him to the murder so quickly, via the torso & suitcase outside his apartment and surveillance videos from his apartment.

His clumsiness and missteps led to his capture much sooner than he expected. Proving, again, his average capacity.

FootballMom
06-19-2012, 05:46 PM
As the appointed go-to know-it-all on all things male anatomy and gay (Thanks FootballMom and the countless people who apparently agree with FB LOL), I want to end speculation that Magnotta is a hermaphrodite; sorry to end everyone's dual part obsession but he only has boy parts.


With our WS friends as witnesses... I am hereby officially proclaiming my true & devoted love for HChi and asking him to be my gaysband...

(picture Cricket Caruth-Reilly and Blake Reilly from GCB... so sad it was canceled)

:heartbeat: :cake: :heartbeat:

pippirose
06-19-2012, 05:49 PM
What I see in all of LM's photos is someone trying so hard to be someone else.
Attractive, not attractive, it doesn't really matter. Even with all his "bravado", I still think deep down he didn't feel good enough, attractive enough, young enough.
Not saying we should feel sorry for him--not at all.
But the mother in me, at times, looks at an earlier photograph and wonders if a genuine hug from somebody who truly cared, would have made a difference.

Scientific
06-19-2012, 05:52 PM
I keep having to correct people on this. I never said he was brilliant, just that he most likely has an above average iq. There's a difference.

Since Susan reposted Scientific's original post on LRM's intelligence, I'm reposting my reply to Scientific.

In short: I disagree strongly with Scientific's suggestion that LRM is "brilliant" and has high intelligence/high IQ.

Below is Scientific's original post, and my original response and my own view: that LRM is of average intelligence, at most.

=======================




I disagree with much of this. LRM's intelligence appears to me to be no more than average, if that.

Some responses.

1. First, I know of no sound scientific or social science evidence suggesting that intelligence is "honed" by "dangerous lifestyles". Moreover, it seems his life in recent years-- however he was making money-- mostly involved creating a fantasy world online, of lies and disinformation about himself (he may very well be the Internet's Greatest Troll Ever).

2. What evidence do we have that LRM knew a "fair amount" of French and Russian? He lived it Montreal; it's not unusual for someone of even below average intelligence to pick up some passable French in a city where French is the first language. As for Russian, we have no evidence that he could speak any of it. And like much of his false stories, lies, and other disinformation posted online, he plagiarized countless works on his website and many blogs; the "Russian" portions on his site are more likely simply cut-and-pastes from Google Translate. That seems more consistent with his tendency to create false stories about himself, including his "ties" to Russian mafia.

3. This is a personal opinion. I find much of his "imagined" world quite prosaic and most often (like his many blog posts) simply plagiarized or borrowed from movies, pop culture, and other objects of his obsessions: serial killers and violence. His song "True Faith" he uses in so many vids is ripped from American Psycho, and his mirror line (about him being a reflection of society) famously comes from Charles Manson. He lived in a fantasy world, no doubt. But I don't think you need to be highly intelligent to plagiarize and copy the many false stories LRM tells about himself.

LRM seems more often to me, to be a doofus who continually overestimates his own intelligence and persistently underestimates those pursuing him. That's typical of narcissists. And we can see it with the video and how quickly he was caught.

LRM is an attention seeker who quite obviously wanted to be caught; so he left blatant clues in the video (Casablanca) poster; but his execution of the crime was clumsy, with plenty of missteps and angles overlooked on his part. The suitcase clumsily left by his curb (where it was not picked up by the garbage collectors); being seen on video surveillance at the apartment at at the Canada Post; communicating on his phone in Europe. LRM expected police to link the kill video to him; but it was traditional police work that did him in, and quickly. This is not the result of a brilliant or intelligent mind.

As for the rest -- all of his online posts should be treated with skepticism, as he has a penchant for pathological lying and story telling. Moreover, "Looks" and "Travel" are not a statistically significant association with intelligence.

And I don't think it takes a genius to figure out how to negotiate the Internet, create YouTube pages, and troll blogs, 4chan, and even to download, install, and set up Tor in order to surf the Deep Web. A person with average intelligence and sufficient time (and commitment) could figure it out; especially given the amount of time that LRM obviously spent online. This was his world.

===

Due to a sampling bias, early research on psychopathy incorrectly found that psychopaths were typically above average intelligence. Subsequent research has shown no such association. Psychopaths come from a range of intelligence and IQ. People should not make the mistake of assuming LRM must be brilliant because he's a narcissistic psychopath who often lies about his own intelligence and IQ.

My assessment is that LRM is of fairly average intelligence, with a high degree of narcissism that leads him to overestimate his own intelligence and capabilities (and underestimate others). That is typical of a psychopath.

It is true that, at times, LRM writes more intelligently than others; but whenever that seems to be the case, someone reveals that his more "intelligent" writing has been copied or plagiarized from somewhere else.

Boodi Moovan was on here the other day talking about her group had gone through his website and sourced pretty much all his more "original" and more intelligent writing to other people and sources. That is, he plagiarized everything.

My theory, as previously stated, is that he's ultimately an attention seeker, which is necessary to feed his psychopathic egoism. So, as with his animal torture videos, he really did want the kill video to eventually be linked back to him, so he could have the fame (like other notorious serial killers); hence the YouTube sockpuppets posting about "1 Lunatic, 1 Icepick" before it was even made.

LRM expected the video to eventually be linked back to him; he just figured he would be long gone by then. He wasn't expecting the police to link him to the murder so quickly, via the torso & suitcase outside his apartment and surveillance videos from his apartment.

His clumsiness and missteps led to his capture much sooner than he expected. Proving, again, his average capacity.

BorgQueen
06-19-2012, 05:53 PM
I asked him about friends that Magnotta had in Montreal in the past 18 months and he shared with me that neither he or anyone he knew of has been able to identify someone connected to Magnotta (friend, acquaintance) in the past 18 months.

Note: the people that have been previously discussed/interviewed and identified as former friends or lovers of Magnotta have NOT been part of his life for over 18 months.

I find something so troubling and empty about him having such a visible online presence (under his own name and countless personalities he created) and no real-world connections in the last 18 months... This is so key to me for some yet to be determined reason.

It is sad, but I do know how it feels. Having a kid taught me who my friends really are. Turned out to be nobody. I have been isolated for about 5 years now, with no friends or others in my life. I have no time to myself to go out and try to make friends, plus social anxiety which makes that difficult. But, instead of going and killing somebody, I joined WS, and have also made friends in random places of the world, whom I talk to online. It is a lonely existence, and I sometimes binge drink, but that is the worst thing I do. I have no desire to kill anybody. Not even Magnotta.
His loneliness may be related to something (such as mental illness) which may have caused him to flip out the way he has, but the loneliness itself is not the cause of it. Only a symptom.

I look at Magnotta and try to feel some sort of compassion or sympathy... but then I get to the point where I just can't, because of what he has done. But, there is no doubt that his life and existence has been quite sad. Troubling, indeed.

HastingsChi
06-19-2012, 05:54 PM
What I see in all of LM's photos is someone trying so hard to be someone else.
Attractive, not attractive, it doesn't really matter. Even with all his "bravado", I still think deep down he didn't feel good enough, attractive enough, young enough.
Not saying we should feel sorry for him--not at all.
But the mother in me, at times, looks at an earlier photograph and wonders if a genuine hug from somebody who truly cared, would have made a difference.

pippirose I think you nailed it.

I think that Magnotta's lack of real-world friends or relationships in the last 18 months would completely support your thoughts.

Cappuccino
06-19-2012, 05:57 PM
IDK... I feel that Luka emulates everything that is wrong with our society today. He is the poster child for the dysfunctional family and crappy parenting as well as self-absorbed, narcissistic, attention-needy, celebrity-inspired and internet-driven youth. You know, this was just the perfect combination of combination of ingredients. It's like a chemical reaction - you just keep dumping compound after compound together you are likely to eventually blow something up. You have a dysfunctional family, troubled childhood, abuse, mental illness, perhaps drugs, the media, the internet, horror movies, fame/celebrity, reality TV, sexual dysfunction, the deep web, blurred boundaries... the list is never ending. Well, world, look at what you created. Seems to me like this is a reaction that is unlikely to cease.

This has been said before in an earlier thread, and my response now is the same as it was then. Luka Magnotta is not the product of modern problems or a sign that the world has gone to hell in a handbasket. There have been Lukas in every day and age. The Zodiac killer sent letters to the newspapers, Jack the Ripper taunted Scotland Yard with letters and parcels containing body parts of his victims. Albert Fish sent a letter to the mother of one of his victims detailing what he did to her child, and then there was that Holmes character who built an entire house of horrors in which to torture his victims.

This is the internet era so the modern incarnation of those named above posted it on a gore site. And the result? He was caught a week later. If you ask me the only difference between this day and age and times past is that its harder to get away with murder now than it used to be.

HastingsChi
06-19-2012, 05:58 PM
But, instead of going and killing somebody, I joined WS

Thank goodness WS was accepting new members when you had to choose between joining WS or killing somebody; if they weren't we might be sleuthing your trail of kills...


BorgQueen luv ya and I appreciate what you wrote and it deserves a proper reply by me and others, but being me I had to snip your post to be a snarky dope.

CARIIS
06-19-2012, 06:00 PM
I asked him about friends that Magnotta had in Montreal in the past 18 months and he shared with me that neither he or anyone he knew of has been able to identify someone connected to Magnotta (friend, acquaintance) in the past 18 months.

Note: the people that have been previously discussed/interviewed and identified as former friends or lovers of Magnotta have NOT been part of his life for over 18 months.

I find something so troubling and empty about him having such a visible online presence (under his own name and countless personalities he created) and no real-world connections in the last 18 months... This is so key to me for some yet to be determined reason.
And you know what I would love to know more about - or even if its accurate - was the trick or whatever it was reported that he was with the first two days he was over there (Paris)? Was that a friend? Was that a hustle?

The one that said he did not know it was LM .

THAT is a story imagine, oh god, the dude in my living room is HIM!
Never heard one more thing about it?

BorgQueen
06-19-2012, 06:02 PM
Thank goodness WS was accepting new members when you had to choose between joining WS or killing somebody; if they weren't we might be sleuthing your trail of kills...


BorgQueen luv ya and I appreciate what you wrote and it deserves a proper reply by me and others, but being me I had to snip your post to be a snarky dope.

I enjoy snarky dopiness. It makes me giggle :Banane13:

Shimmers
06-19-2012, 06:05 PM
What I see in all of LM's photos is someone trying so hard to be someone else.
Attractive, not attractive, it doesn't really matter. Even with all his "bravado", I still think deep down he didn't feel good enough, attractive enough, young enough.
Not saying we should feel sorry for him--not at all.
But the mother in me, at times, looks at an earlier photograph and wonders if a genuine hug from somebody who truly cared, would have made a difference.

Amen ( and i do feel that it would have made a difference )

HastingsChi
06-19-2012, 06:05 PM
And you know what I would love to know more about - or even if its accurate - was the trick or whatever it was reported that he was with the first two days he was over there (Paris)? Was that a friend? Was that a hustle?

He was discussed several threads ago and here is what I said

My take on the Paris trick and 2 1/2 day "hookup": The only hookups that I have heard about that last over 24 hours include a PNP (party and play) element to them. For those unfamiliar with the term PNP, it is a sexual encounter which includes the use of drugs (crystal meth, cocaine, heroin or MDMA) which fuel and/or enhance the experience. People who PNP scare me.

That being said, given the symptoms of vomiting and crying that Magnotta demonstrated on the flight to Paris (per the blog of the gentleman sitting next to him on the flight), I believe Magnotta might have been experiencing withdrawal from heroin. If this is the case, upon his arrival in Paris he would be desperate for a "fix" of heroin or another drug which would tame his withdrawal symptoms. If that is the case and he met someone who could help him get that "fix", that would explain the 2 1/2 day hookup to me.

However, I am VERY SKEPTICAL if this guy ever met Magnotta or was just trying to have his own "look at me" moment...

BorgQueen
06-19-2012, 06:06 PM
And you know what I would love to know more about - or even if its accurate - was the trick or whatever it was reported that he was with the first two days he was over there (Paris)? Was that a friend? Was that a hustle?

The one that said he did not know it was LM .

THAT is a story imagine, oh god, the dude in my living room is HIM!
Never heard one more thing about it?

I imagine that the person in question doesn't want the attention that going to the media would bring. Can't say I blame him.

CARIIS
06-19-2012, 06:07 PM
I keep having to correct people on this. I never said he was brilliant, just that he most likely has an above average iq. There's a difference.
It tis I that thinks he is very,very bright - sorry S that they think it is you! S, IMO, if tested and LM woud do it for real -- I vote he would hit MENSA stuff! Just my notions......

..But you and appear to be on the same page in that by my saying very bright and you saying above average neither of us are saying anything positive about him. My sense has been people were angry that I thought so.... its an observation .......
...think it is easier to only say negative things about such a horrific character ....wherein my notions are although not smart, bright indeed it is at, for me . some level as saying the same thing as he is 5 foot 9 or whatever you know what I mean .... just a opinion!

prima.facie
06-19-2012, 06:08 PM
Body Dysmorphic Disorder : A Personal Perspective

There has been a great deal of discussion today about body dysmorphic disorder and I've tried to avoid discussing this topic because it is something I am way too aware of as it is something I have experienced; it is something that combined with anorexia athletica almost killed me. Body dysmophic disorder and/or male eating disorders are very serious issues.

I'll share with you some of my story, which received notable media visibility years ago, to better help understand this condition:

Looking back on college, which I began as a 220-pound college-football player who had never had eaten Lucky Charms or Trix but always had a strict, healthy diet. After Freshman year I discarded football to enjoy the other aspects of college life: internships, bar-tending, friends, taking in junk food & booze and typical college fare. My fit, healthy athlete's body had turned into 320 pounds of YUCK.

I never had been shunned or made fun of because of my weight. I always was the life of the party. I never was made to feel awkward. I was a fun guy. It was never an issue. I hear people say that overweight people are depressed and unhappy. I was just the opposite.

It wasn't until I got my college graduation pictures back in the mail that I really saw myself and was horrified by the way I looked; who is this tremendously fat person in these photos? OMG it's me.

So I decided to go back to my roots, as a competitive swimmer since the age of 5 and 3 sport athlete in high school I knew what I needed to do: rediscover my passion for athletics and get back in shape. I went to one of those fitness centers with multiple locations and joined; I'm sure that the woman who signed me up took one look at me and probably thought I was an easy commission and that I'd never be back.

However I went back to the gym morning's and evening's seven days a week; it became more than a workout, it became an obsession. What began as a fun thing to do for myself before and after work began to run my life-- as my commitment to fitness continued and the weight dropped fast, I noticed all of the compliments on my appearance I received from people. As someone who was already well-liked and not shunned for being fat, these compliments added fuel to my passion for working out. In order to cut out fast foods I became a vegetarian.

I began my workouts at 320-pounds in June and by October of that same year I was competing in running competitions and down to about 170-pounds (statistically my ideal weight) and should have gone into maintenance mode. Unfortunately, I did not; I actually became more obsessed with my fitness and appearance. When I looked into the mirror, I saw the 320-pound person in my college graduation photos looking back at me. No matter what I did or what mirror I used, the 170-pound me saw the 320-pound me in the mirror. I was working out for 90 minutes twice a day. I became obsessed with my caloric intake and kept a diary of everything I ate which averaged a caloric intake of 320 calories per day.

By February (less than 8 months after joining the gym) I weighed 120 pounds and still saw the 320 pound man in the mirror. I shunned my friends and became a totally different person who was not pleasant (no longer the well-liked, jovial person everyone adored), uncomfortable in my own skin and in total denial about my condition. In that same months I traveled to a family function and my family essentially staged an intervention in a very smart manner. The doctors evaluated me and told me that if my anorexia continued I would be dead within months. I was also made to agree to begin to talk with a friend of my brother-in-law's who is a sports nutritionist, sports psychologist and multi-sport coach.

I begrudgingly agreed to this and he saved my life, literally, by reprogramming me to understand that food is not the enemy but the fuel for training and racing. To assist with this we began a plan that I would start to train for triathlons and, in doing so, rebuild my body and see the importance of food. I also began the long process of beginning to deal with my body dysmorphic disorder; not an easy process at all.

A few months after beginning to rebuild my body and relationships in my life and try not to see the 320-pound man in the mirror anymore, I competed in my first triathlon which I placed 2nd or 3rd in my age group. Soon after photos once again impacted my life: I saw the photos of this fit, svelte guy in a speedo surrounded by other folks in speedos and thought the fit, svelte guy was in as good or better shape than the others; that fit, svelte guy was me.

Years and countless Ironman triathlon competitions later I write this a happy, fit, healthy person who truly loves and appreciates life and those in my life.

I could ramble on about this for pages but please understand that both anorexia and body dysmorphic disorder are serious conditions which are never cured but one has to deal with every day in order to not relapse.

Thanks for reading this.

i totally get what you are saying...

i danced for 20+ years of my life, yet im not built like a dancer (tall/rail thin). im built like a gymnast (short and muscular) and having to hear for 20+ years that i needed to look a certain way and basically dont eat a damn thing and that i am not tall enough, im not lean enough, im too muscular blah blah blah blah.....i myself developed my own eating disorders which basically was barely eating anything on a daily basis. once i left the world of dance i entered the world of fitness and lived at the gym...and then watched my brothers enter the world of modeling, fashion shows, celebrities and so on, i was surrounded by perfect beautiful people (according to what society tells us) and then looked at myself in the mirror and thought: well i dont look like THEM (im not tall enough, thin enough, pretty enough, etc); therefore, i must look horrible. to this day my own brothers are so incredibly fixated on looks (along w/ their friends) that i cant even be around them w/out it affecting how i feel about myself. how crappy is that? lol

and ive already told the story of one of my exboyfriends who had an addiction to porn and at the time i thought well im not perfect and im not bad, but WTF im not even enough you need that 24/7?!

on top of that my father was a pastor of a church and i grew up hearing: everyone is looking at you, watching you......so i felt like i lived in a glass house and i always had to be on my best behavior and look my best and so on....

so it doesnt just affect women. it doesnt just affect straight women. it truly does affect all kinds of people.....it truly sucks to have a society who is so focused on what you look like on the outside....none of us will ever be enough to satisfy what we are told we should be....

so yeah, i get LMs issues in that sense....because i grew up in a world of "everyone is looking at you and you need to look like ....this...." and it is hard to to turn from all of that and look in the mirror and accept what you see and not think youre not enough....

thanks for sharing your story....im sure it was not easy to tell...

~n/t~
06-19-2012, 06:09 PM
So where were we? I see some posting wanting to hug the accused killer and it's giving me the heebie jeebies.

thedissent
06-19-2012, 06:10 PM
I keep having to correct people on this. I never said he was brilliant, just that he most likely has an above average iq. There's a difference.

You pegged him as "bright", an IQ of 115-130. That would put in the top 15% of the population in terms of IQ.

I would say closer to 85-100, which is low average to average (in the 45-55% range).

His writing, spelling, and grammar really is terrible. :)

maxfactor
06-19-2012, 06:11 PM
It is sad, but I do know how it feels. Having a kid taught me who my friends really are. Turned out to be nobody. I have been isolated for about 5 years now, with no friends or others in my life. I have no time to myself to go out and try to make friends, plus social anxiety which makes that difficult. But, instead of going and killing somebody, I joined WS, and have also made friends in random places of the world, whom I talk to online. It is a lonely existence, and I sometimes binge drink, but that is the worst thing I do. I have no desire to kill anybody. Not even Magnotta.
His loneliness may be related to something (such as mental illness) which may have caused him to flip out the way he has, but the loneliness itself is not the cause of it. Only a symptom.

I look at Magnotta and try to feel some sort of compassion or sympathy... but then I get to the point where I just can't, because of what he has done. But, there is no doubt that his life and existence has been quite sad. Troubling, indeed.

I'm sending a huge hug to you through my laptop!!! You have lots of friends here!

Scientific
06-19-2012, 06:12 PM
If you look at the original thread about this you can understand the context of my post better. I wasn't arguing that he was brilliant, but rather that he wasn't mentally retarded. Eventually someone cleared up that a wiki post assigning Luka a low iq was just more Luka bashing.

It's easy to become confused on this board, especially when someone responds to a post from another thread so that people no longer understand the context of the original post.

Since Susan reposted Scientific's original post on LRM's intelligence, I'm reposting my reply to Scientific.

In short: I disagree strongly with Scientific's suggestion that LRM is "brilliant" and has high intelligence/high IQ.

Below is Scientific's original post, and my original response and my own view: that LRM is of average intelligence, at most.

=======================




I disagree with much of this. LRM's intelligence appears to me to be no more than average, if that.

Some responses.

1. First, I know of no sound scientific or social science evidence suggesting that intelligence is "honed" by "dangerous lifestyles". Moreover, it seems his life in recent years-- however he was making money-- mostly involved creating a fantasy world online, of lies and disinformation about himself (he may very well be the Internet's Greatest Troll Ever).

2. What evidence do we have that LRM knew a "fair amount" of French and Russian? He lived it Montreal; it's not unusual for someone of even below average intelligence to pick up some passable French in a city where French is the first language. As for Russian, we have no evidence that he could speak any of it. And like much of his false stories, lies, and other disinformation posted online, he plagiarized countless works on his website and many blogs; the "Russian" portions on his site are more likely simply cut-and-pastes from Google Translate. That seems more consistent with his tendency to create false stories about himself, including his "ties" to Russian mafia.

3. This is a personal opinion. I find much of his "imagined" world quite prosaic and most often (like his many blog posts) simply plagiarized or borrowed from movies, pop culture, and other objects of his obsessions: serial killers and violence. His song "True Faith" he uses in so many vids is ripped from American Psycho, and his mirror line (about him being a reflection of society) famously comes from Charles Manson. He lived in a fantasy world, no doubt. But I don't think you need to be highly intelligent to plagiarize and copy the many false stories LRM tells about himself.

LRM seems more often to me, to be a doofus who continually overestimates his own intelligence and persistently underestimates those pursuing him. That's typical of narcissists. And we can see it with the video and how quickly he was caught.

LRM is an attention seeker who quite obviously wanted to be caught; so he left blatant clues in the video (Casablanca) poster; but his execution of the crime was clumsy, with plenty of missteps and angles overlooked on his part. The suitcase clumsily left by his curb (where it was not picked up by the garbage collectors); being seen on video surveillance at the apartment at at the Canada Post; communicating on his phone in Europe. LRM expected police to link the kill video to him; but it was traditional police work that did him in, and quickly. This is not the result of a brilliant or intelligent mind.

As for the rest -- all of his online posts should be treated with skepticism, as he has a penchant for pathological lying and story telling. Moreover, "Looks" and "Travel" are not a statistically significant association with intelligence.

And I don't think it takes a genius to figure out how to negotiate the Internet, create YouTube pages, and troll blogs, 4chan, and even to download, install, and set up Tor in order to surf the Deep Web. A person with average intelligence and sufficient time (and commitment) could figure it out; especially given the amount of time that LRM obviously spent online. This was his world.

===

Due to a sampling bias, early research on psychopathy incorrectly found that psychopaths were typically above average intelligence. Subsequent research has shown no such association. Psychopaths come from a range of intelligence and IQ. People should not make the mistake of assuming LRM must be brilliant because he's a narcissistic psychopath who often lies about his own intelligence and IQ.

My assessment is that LRM is of fairly average intelligence, with a high degree of narcissism that leads him to overestimate his own intelligence and capabilities (and underestimate others). That is typical of a psychopath.

It is true that, at times, LRM writes more intelligently than others; but whenever that seems to be the case, someone reveals that his more "intelligent" writing has been copied or plagiarized from somewhere else.

Boodi Moovan was on here the other day talking about her group had gone through his website and sourced pretty much all his more "original" and more intelligent writing to other people and sources. That is, he plagiarized everything.

My theory, as previously stated, is that he's ultimately an attention seeker, which is necessary to feed his psychopathic egoism. So, as with his animal torture videos, he really did want the kill video to eventually be linked back to him, so he could have the fame (like other notorious serial killers); hence the YouTube sockpuppets posting about "1 Lunatic, 1 Icepick" before it was even made.

LRM expected the video to eventually be linked back to him; he just figured he would be long gone by then. He wasn't expecting the police to link him to the murder so quickly, via the torso & suitcase outside his apartment and surveillance videos from his apartment.

His clumsiness and missteps led to his capture much sooner than he expected. Proving, again, his average capacity.

~n/t~
06-19-2012, 06:12 PM
Me thinks we need better sketch artists. Wait. Maybe he does look like this. I don't think he'd be too happy with this. :floorlaugh:

http://images.ctv.ca/archives/CTVNews/img2/20120619/800_luka_magnotta_sketch_120619.jpg

http://www.ctv.ca/CTVNews/Canada/20120619/magnotta-montreal-police-interrogation-120619/

CARIIS
06-19-2012, 06:12 PM
pippirose I think you nailed it.

I think that Magnotta's lack of real-world friends or relationships in the last 18 months would completely support your thoughts.
I think i would have made a world of diff for LM (hug) , my god his families complete disassocation with this human takes my breath away. Gosh for 15 days your son brother aunt uncle (whatever family role) is the front page globally for doing horrid things -- NOT one has come "out" for lack of better word , even tried to say something, reached out , told him they cared NOTHING - now that is ALONE.

Cappuccino
06-19-2012, 06:13 PM
It tis I that thinks he is very,very bright - sorry S that they think it is you! S, IMO, if tested and LM woud do it for real -- I vote he would hit MENSA stuff! Just my notions......

..But you and appear to be on the same page in that by my saying very bright and you saying above average neither of us are saying anything positive about him. My sense has been people were angry that I thought so.... its an observation .......
...think it is easier to only say negative things about such a horrific character ....wherein my notions are although not smart, bright indeed it is at, for me . some level as saying the same thing as he is 5 foot 9 or whatever you know what I mean .... just a opinion!

Its not that anybody is angry about what you think, its just that people disagree.

I, for one, literally lol'd when I read your comment that his IQ is Mensa level. Pfft. And I'm the Queen of Sheba.

DD_bwest
06-19-2012, 06:13 PM
I imagine that the person in question doesn't want the attention that going to the media would bring. Can't say I blame him.

totally agree

gay or straight, closeted or not.. who would want the world to know they associated with lm.. people like to give the impression they have atleast SOME standards..

~n/t~
06-19-2012, 06:13 PM
I'm sending a huge hug to you through my laptop!!! You have lots of friends here!

Amen! :rocker:

prima.facie
06-19-2012, 06:15 PM
You pegged him as "bright", an IQ of 115-130. That would put in the top 15% of the population in terms of IQ.

I would say closer to 85-100, which is low average to average (in the 45-55% range).

His writing, spelling, and grammar really is terrible. :)


when typing...writing, spelling and grammar is not indicative of IQ....
it just isnt....

in school, i write A+ papers....but on forums and if im chatting or sending a casual email...my typing sucks because im just not trying hard or im in a hurry or doing a few things at once.

i see zero correlation to typing online and IQ....

DD_bwest
06-19-2012, 06:15 PM
Me thinks we need better sketch artists. Wait. Maybe he does look like this. I don't think he'd be too happy with this. :floorlaugh:

http://images.ctv.ca/archives/CTVNews/img2/20120619/800_luka_magnotta_sketch_120619.jpg

http://www.ctv.ca/CTVNews/Canada/20120619/magnotta-montreal-police-interrogation-120619/

ahahaha that picture makes him look asian.. and depressed as hell.. i sure hope someone gives him a copy of that picture!

~n/t~
06-19-2012, 06:15 PM
Some psychopaths have families, children, wives, girlfriends who love and hug them but yet they murdered. Some multiple victims.

I don't think a hug would make a difference folks. Seriously.

Cappuccino
06-19-2012, 06:16 PM
Me thinks we need better sketch artists. Wait. Maybe he does look like this. I don't think he'd be too happy with this. :floorlaugh:

http://images.ctv.ca/archives/CTVNews/img2/20120619/800_luka_magnotta_sketch_120619.jpg

http://www.ctv.ca/CTVNews/Canada/20120619/magnotta-montreal-police-interrogation-120619/


Oh that's hilariously bad. :floorlaugh:

That, to Luka Magnotta, would constitute cruel and unusual punishment.

CARIIS
06-19-2012, 06:16 PM
This has been said before in an earlier thread, and my response now is the same as it was then. Luka Magnotta is not the product of modern problems or a sign that the world has gone to hell in a handbasket. There have been Lukas in every day and age. The Zodiac killer sent letters to the newspapers, Jack the Ripper taunted Scotland Yard with letters and parcels containing body parts of his victims. Albert Fish sent a letter to the mother of one of his victims detailing what he did to her child, and then there was that Holmes character who built an entire house of horrors in which to torture his victims.

This is the internet era so the modern incarnation of those named above posted it on a gore site. And the result? He was caught a week later. If you ask me the only difference between this day and age and times past is that its harder to get away with murder now than it used to be.
Fair observation! I think that for those who watched the video the impact is the only thing different. I could not watch did you watch it? Who, who has been active here the last 24 hours watched it?

~n/t~
06-19-2012, 06:17 PM
Oh that's hilariously bad. :floorlaugh:

That, to Luka Magnotta, would constitute cruel and unusual punishment.

I know. Oh the irony of it all, eh? :floorlaugh:

Cappuccino
06-19-2012, 06:18 PM
Fair observation! I think that for those who watched the video the impact is the only thing different. I could not watch did you watch it? Who, who has been active here the last 24 hours watched it?

I watched it. I started out determined not to watch it, but curiosity got the better of me after a while.

Scientific
06-19-2012, 06:19 PM
Trust me, I'm a graduate student who has studied at several prestigious universities and have known people from all walks of life. There are some really brilliant people who can't spell worth a damn. Some of them are far smarter than I am and I only score borderline genius (and, yes, I was tested in school as a child, and have taken various other IQ tests so I know for a fact). That is not to say that Luka is brilliant. ...Intelligence is not measured by spelling ability. This is why IQ tests are designed to be culture-blind. Math is another culture-blind rule-based system, unlike spelling and grammar.

Also, being in the 15th percentile would mean that about one in seven people would share his IQ. That is not an extreme outlying number. If you rounded up a small group of people from the street several of them would have his iq. It's still within an average range.

You pegged him as "bright", an IQ of 115-130. That would put in the top 15% of the population in terms of IQ.

I would say closer to 85-100, which is low average to average (in the 45-55% range).

His writing, spelling, and grammar really is terrible. :)

CARIIS
06-19-2012, 06:21 PM
He was discussed several threads ago and here is what I said



However, I am VERY SKEPTICAL if this guy ever met Magnotta or was just trying to have his own "look at me" moment...
OK, the withdrawal angle makes sense, cause when I first heard the crying in the back of the plane piece, it was like, what now the guy is gonna start having all this profound sadness (while running !) after all the stuff he had been doing - that is a good hunch - .....

BorgQueen
06-19-2012, 06:22 PM
Me thinks we need better sketch artists. Wait. Maybe he does look like this. I don't think he'd be too happy with this. :floorlaugh:

http://images.ctv.ca/archives/CTVNews/img2/20120619/800_luka_magnotta_sketch_120619.jpg

http://www.ctv.ca/CTVNews/Canada/20120619/magnotta-montreal-police-interrogation-120619/

:floorlaugh:

It is all wrong! The eyebrows aren't big enough, most importantly. But his eyes also look like they are looking in the opposite direction. And the picture gives the impression that he is in his 40s.

This made my day! :great:

prima.facie
06-19-2012, 06:22 PM
Me thinks we need better sketch artists. Wait. Maybe he does look like this. I don't think he'd be too happy with this. :floorlaugh:

http://images.ctv.ca/archives/CTVNews/img2/20120619/800_luka_magnotta_sketch_120619.jpg

http://www.ctv.ca/CTVNews/Canada/20120619/magnotta-montreal-police-interrogation-120619/

oh lord...if luka sees that he may indeed kill himself...
its almost as if the artist tried everything possible to dispel the image that luka tried to create of him being HOT.

CARIIS
06-19-2012, 06:24 PM
I watched it. I started out determined not to watch it, but curiosity got the better of me after a while.
Did you nightmare?

~n/t~
06-19-2012, 06:24 PM
Magnotta prosecutors reveal their other mission: comforting victim's family

"My colleague and I really want them to believe in our justice system and we'll do our best to reassure them that we'll work very, very hard in this case," Di Salvo said Tuesday at the Montreal courthouse, following Magnotta's first Canadian court appearance since his arrest in Germany earlier this month.

"It's the beginning of a very, very long year or two years, so we'll try to help them (get) through this."

Di Salvo said that even after Lin's family returns to China, the prosecution team will stay in touch with them and explain each legal step along the way.

The prosecution will be represented by two experienced Crown lawyers. Bouthillier and Di Salvo have worked numerous high-profile cases. In 2001, Di Salvo successfully prosecuted former world-champion boxer Dave Hilton for repeatedly molesting his daughters.

She has not yet met with Lin's relatives, but says she knows that his death has been extremely difficult for them.

Di Salvo also says that finding Lin's missing head is critical for the family's healing process.




http://www.globaltoronto.com/canada/magnotta+prosecutors+reveal+their+other+mission+co mforting+victims+family/6442664533/story.html


So sad for his family :rose:

pannekoek
06-19-2012, 06:24 PM
I was wondering about the significance of Lin Jun’s missing head and then I had to think about the Moors murders.

Ian Brady still refuses to disclose where he buried the body of little Keith Bennet. A psychiatrist said that that was a way for him of maintaining power/control over the victim, his family and the rest of society.

I wonder if LM may have hidden the head for that purpose, power and control. Its symbolicly the most important part of a body, with heart and penis (for men :)) following.

Some of LM sock puppets linked to youtube films about the Moors murders. He also signed the email to the english reporter with Jonh Kilbride, a Moors victim.

Since LM doesnt seem to be able to get an original idea of his own he might have copied it.

(Or the head ended up at the dump. I dont know how the Canadian garbage system works. How fast picked up garbage gets destroyed etc etc.. )

Ps excuse my english, its not my native tong.

prima.facie
06-19-2012, 06:26 PM
ahahaha that picture makes him look asian.. and depressed as hell.. i sure hope someone gives him a copy of that picture!

members of ANON need to hack into every single site that LM created and replace ALL pictures of luka with THAT :floorlaugh::floorlaugh::floorlaugh:

then someone needs to take screen shots of the hackjob and send to luka in prison.....

:floorlaugh::floorlaugh: that would be some serious punishment

~n/t~
06-19-2012, 06:27 PM
Magnotta court appearance stirs public curiosity at Montreal courthouse

http://media.winnipegfreepress.com/images/648*370/pch102037922_high.jpg


http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/canada/lineup-at-courthouse-for-magnotta-appearance-159593115.html

Our prosecution team! Team Jun Lin!

Jujercu
06-19-2012, 06:28 PM
Fair observation! I think that for those who watched the video the impact is the only thing different. I could not watch did you watch it? Who, who has been active here the last 24 hours watched it?

I have seen the video. It didn't give me nightmares.

FootballMom
06-19-2012, 06:29 PM
Two things. If that is the correct standard (I can't see the quote you quoted in the reply box, so paraphrasing), first, it's written with an "or" meaning either you must not appreciate the nature or quality of your actions, OR you must not know that they are wrong. Second, you can know that others will perceive something as wrong while, you, yourself, don't see them as wrong for whatever reason. In lm's case, I think the second one is very likely to be the case.

Not saying those arguments would prevail, but that's what I'd argue if I were lm's defense attorney (heaven forbid!) and assuming that is, in fact, a correct statement of the test under Canadian law. jmo

/\THIS/\

I am sure he "appreciated" that his action would lead to the death of his victim....
I think he realized what he did as he fled the country so afraid to be found out.


The difference between knowing right & wrong (legal & illegal) behaviour VS. the inability to understand OR appreciate the immoral behaviour.

IMO... LRM knew his actions were illegal... he fails to appreciate them as immoral because in his mind his illegal actions are valid or justifiable (for whatever psychotic reason he has bouncing around in there).

"An accused still has to establish that he or she was, as a result of a mental disorder, “incapable of appreciating the nature and quality of the act or omission or of knowing that it was wrong.” In 1990, the Supreme Court of Canada reversed its previous position on the interpretation of “wrong” in that context. In R. v. Chaulk, six of nine judges held that this word meant “morally wrong,” as opposed to “legally wrong.”(39) That interpretation of section 16 was further refined by the Supreme Court in a 1994 decision establishing that “[t]he accused must possess the intellectual ability to know right from wrong in an abstract sense. But he or she must also possess the ability to apply that knowledge in a rational way to the alleged criminal act.”(40)

(39) R. v. Chaulk, [1990] 3 S.C.R. 1303.

(40) R. v. Oommen, [1994] 2 S.C.R. 507, at p. 516.

http://publications.gc.ca/Collection-R/LoPBdP/BP/prb9922-e.htm#3.%20Hospitaltxt


An insane or psychotic person is perfectly capable of committing well planned out & premeditated murder. A quick Google search for the following terms will provide pages and pages documenting such behaviour & trails:

"military" "murder" "psychotic" "mental illness" "premeditated" "altruistic murders" (especially the latter with regard to infanticide committed by mothers)

Jujercu
06-19-2012, 06:30 PM
Me thinks we need better sketch artists. Wait. Maybe he does look like this. I don't think he'd be too happy with this. :floorlaugh:

http://images.ctv.ca/archives/CTVNews/img2/20120619/800_luka_magnotta_sketch_120619.jpg

http://www.ctv.ca/CTVNews/Canada/20120619/magnotta-montreal-police-interrogation-120619/

Yeah. Where are the caterpillars? He looks constipated and yes. Asian.

Cappuccino
06-19-2012, 06:30 PM
Did you nightmare?

No. I found it more depressing than anything.

prima.facie
06-19-2012, 06:32 PM
has this been posted and I missed it (probably so huh lol)

Pierre Panaccio
http://www.canadalawyerlist.com/lawyer/11464.html

Mr Magnotta appeared before the court via video link, under guard watch, and pleaded not guilty through his lawyer Pierre Panaccio

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-18509405

OEJ
06-19-2012, 06:32 PM
So where were we? I see some posting wanting to hug the accused killer and it's giving me the heebie jeebies.

I've often seen photos of killers when they were little kids and felt very sad for the lost lives and potential. So what?

~n/t~
06-19-2012, 06:36 PM
:floorlaugh:

It is all wrong! The eyebrows aren't big enough, most importantly. But his eyes also look like they are looking in the opposite direction. And the picture gives the impression that he is in his 40s.

This made my day! :great:

Well they did use black marker for the eyebrows. :floorlaugh:

Scientific
06-19-2012, 06:42 PM
My emotional response to Luka, in reviewing details related to this case, has ranged from complete terror and disgust when learning graphic details of the murder, to empathy when considering what might have driven him to do something so awful. A lot of us are trying to wrap our heads around something we find bizarre and disturbing, and there are differing responses in the process.

I couldn't stomach the video. Didn't make it through 5 seconds and know I won't ever see the full footage. And the stills have really shaken me. Mostly I worry about his family and the media circus and hope we are not contributing in some way to sensationalism about Luka. I hope the family has space to (if it is possible) heal.

I've often seen photos of killers when they were little kids and felt very sad for the lost lives and potential. So what?

~n/t~
06-19-2012, 06:42 PM
I've often seen photos of killers when they were little kids and felt very sad for the lost lives and potential. So what?

That's fine. It makes me sad when I see them as innocent children. It's the adult pyschopaths they turn out to be because of choice (imo) that makes me hate them.

Yes choice. IMO, I don't believe Magnotta is mentally ill. He's a psycho. Like all those before him who took pleasure in murdering innocent victims and enjoyed every second of it including evading authorities.

Mbshafeena
06-19-2012, 06:43 PM
I think i would have made a world of diff for LM (hug) , my god his families complete disassocation with this human takes my breath away. Gosh for 15 days your son brother aunt uncle (whatever family role) is the front page globally for doing horrid things -- NOT one has come "out" for lack of better word , even tried to say something, reached out , told him they cared NOTHING - now that is ALONE.

I understand what you are saying but we do not know if he has received a phone call from his family. I understand that it is being reported that journalists, etc are "following" them. The entire situation is sad for both families but it doesn't take away the anger at what he has done.

Mbshafeena
06-19-2012, 06:47 PM
I asked him about friends that Magnotta had in Montreal in the past 18 months and he shared with me that neither he or anyone he knew of has been able to identify someone connected to Magnotta (friend, acquaintance) in the past 18 months.

Note: the people that have been previously discussed/interviewed and identified as former friends or lovers of Magnotta have NOT been part of his life for over 18 months.

I find something so troubling and empty about him having such a visible online presence (under his own name and countless personalities he created) and no real-world connections in the last 18 months... This is so key to me for some yet to be determined reason.

In the document he wrote about how to disappear he talks about distancing yourself from friends.... Wonder if he has planned that long ago to go down this route.

jamiect
06-19-2012, 06:47 PM
Body Dysmorphic Disorder : A Personal Perspective

There has been a great deal of discussion today about body dysmorphic disorder and I've tried to avoid discussing this topic because it is something I am way too aware of as it is something I have experienced; it is something that combined with anorexia athletica almost killed me. Body dysmophic disorder and/or male eating disorders are very serious issues.

I'll share with you some of my story, which received notable media visibility years ago, to better help understand this condition:

Looking back on college, which I began as a 220-pound college-football player who had never had eaten Lucky Charms or Trix but always had a strict, healthy diet. After Freshman year I discarded football to enjoy the other aspects of college life: internships, bar-tending, friends, taking in junk food & booze and typical college fare. My fit, healthy athlete's body had turned into 320 pounds of YUCK.

I never had been shunned or made fun of because of my weight. I always was the life of the party. I never was made to feel awkward. I was a fun guy. It was never an issue. I hear people say that overweight people are depressed and unhappy. I was just the opposite.

It wasn't until I got my college graduation pictures back in the mail that I really saw myself and was horrified by the way I looked; who is this tremendously fat person in these photos? OMG it's me.

So I decided to go back to my roots, as a competitive swimmer since the age of 5 and 3 sport athlete in high school I knew what I needed to do: rediscover my passion for athletics and get back in shape. I went to one of those fitness centers with multiple locations and joined; I'm sure that the woman who signed me up took one look at me and probably thought I was an easy commission and that I'd never be back.

However I went back to the gym morning's and evening's seven days a week; it became more than a workout, it became an obsession. What began as a fun thing to do for myself before and after work began to run my life-- as my commitment to fitness continued and the weight dropped fast, I noticed all of the compliments on my appearance I received from people. As someone who was already well-liked and not shunned for being fat, these compliments added fuel to my passion for working out. In order to cut out fast foods I became a vegetarian.

I began my workouts at 320-pounds in June and by October of that same year I was competing in running competitions and down to about 170-pounds (statistically my ideal weight) and should have gone into maintenance mode. Unfortunately, I did not; I actually became more obsessed with my fitness and appearance. When I looked into the mirror, I saw the 320-pound person in my college graduation photos looking back at me. No matter what I did or what mirror I used, the 170-pound me saw the 320-pound me in the mirror. I was working out for 90 minutes twice a day. I became obsessed with my caloric intake and kept a diary of everything I ate which averaged a caloric intake of 320 calories per day.

By February (less than 8 months after joining the gym) I weighed 120 pounds and still saw the 320 pound man in the mirror. I shunned my friends and became a totally different person who was not pleasant (no longer the well-liked, jovial person everyone adored), uncomfortable in my own skin and in total denial about my condition. In that same months I traveled to a family function and my family essentially staged an intervention in a very smart manner. The doctors evaluated me and told me that if my anorexia continued I would be dead within months. I was also made to agree to begin to talk with a friend of my brother-in-law's who is a sports nutritionist, sports psychologist and multi-sport coach.

I begrudgingly agreed to this and he saved my life, literally, by reprogramming me to understand that food is not the enemy but the fuel for training and racing. To assist with this we began a plan that I would start to train for triathlons and, in doing so, rebuild my body and see the importance of food. I also began the long process of beginning to deal with my body dysmorphic disorder; not an easy process at all.

A few months after beginning to rebuild my body and relationships in my life and try not to see the 320-pound man in the mirror anymore, I competed in my first triathlon which I placed 2nd or 3rd in my age group. Soon after photos once again impacted my life: I saw the photos of this fit, svelte guy in a speedo surrounded by other folks in speedos and thought the fit, svelte guy was in as good or better shape than the others; that fit, svelte guy was me.

Years and countless Ironman triathlon competitions later I write this a happy, fit, healthy person who truly loves and appreciates life and those in my life.

I could ramble on about this for pages but please understand that both anorexia and body dysmorphic disorder are serious conditions which are never cured but one has to deal with every day in order to not relapse.

Thanks for reading this.

Thank you for sharing your story. As an occasional poster, it is stories like yours that keeps bringing me back to WS. Thanks again for your honesty. :blowkiss:

Dutchie43
06-19-2012, 06:49 PM
I don't want to be rude or insult anyone.....but see what is happening here?
You make fun of Luka, make fun of how he looks and acts. This happens every day to a lot of people. People like LM. People who don't "fit in", who are abandoned by their family, who have mental problems or disorders and are being treated like scum. Tormented souls.

I am NOT defending his actions, I am not on 'his side". But this is how society treats people who are different. They are being shut out, picked on, etc.
And once in a while, a "Luka" can't handle it anymore and does awfull things to other human beings. An answer to neglect, a loveless life, being bullied, being misunderstood.
Following this case, it fulfills me with sadness. For both victim and killer.

There is nothing funny about this case.

x_files
06-19-2012, 06:50 PM
ahahaha that picture makes him look asian.. and depressed as hell.. i sure hope someone gives him a copy of that picture!

He looks 50 years old and nothing like him! yikes!

CARIIS
06-19-2012, 06:54 PM
Since Susan reposted Scientific's original post on LRM's intelligence, I'm reposting my reply to Scientific.

In short: I disagree strongly with Scientific's suggestion that LRM is "brilliant" and has high intelligence/high IQ.

Below is Scientific's original post, and my original response and my own view: that LRM is of average intelligence, at most.

=======================




I disagree with much of this. LRM's intelligence appears to me to be no more than average, if that.

Some responses.

1. First, I know of no sound scientific or social science evidence suggesting that intelligence is "honed" by "dangerous lifestyles". Moreover, it seems his life in recent years-- however he was making money-- mostly involved creating a fantasy world online, of lies and disinformation about himself (he may very well be the Internet's Greatest Troll Ever).

2. What evidence do we have that LRM knew a "fair amount" of French and Russian? He lived it Montreal; it's not unusual for someone of even below average intelligence to pick up some passable French in a city where French is the first language. As for Russian, we have no evidence that he could speak any of it. And like much of his false stories, lies, and other disinformation posted online, he plagiarized countless works on his website and many blogs; the "Russian" portions on his site are more likely simply cut-and-pastes from Google Translate. That seems more consistent with his tendency to create false stories about himself, including his "ties" to Russian mafia.

3. This is a personal opinion. I find much of his "imagined" world quite prosaic and most often (like his many blog posts) simply plagiarized or borrowed from movies, pop culture, and other objects of his obsessions: serial killers and violence. His song "True Faith" he uses in so many vids is ripped from American Psycho, and his mirror line (about him being a reflection of society) famously comes from Charles Manson. He lived in a fantasy world, no doubt. But I don't think you need to be highly intelligent to plagiarize and copy the many false stories LRM tells about himself.

LRM seems more often to me, to be a doofus who continually overestimates his own intelligence and persistently underestimates those pursuing him. That's typical of narcissists. And we can see it with the video and how quickly he was caught.

LRM is an attention seeker who quite obviously wanted to be caught; so he left blatant clues in the video (Casablanca) poster; but his execution of the crime was clumsy, with plenty of missteps and angles overlooked on his part. The suitcase clumsily left by his curb (where it was not picked up by the garbage collectors); being seen on video surveillance at the apartment at at the Canada Post; communicating on his phone in Europe. LRM expected police to link the kill video to him; but it was traditional police work that did him in, and quickly. This is not the result of a brilliant or intelligent mind.

As for the rest -- all of his online posts should be treated with skepticism, as he has a penchant for pathological lying and story telling. Moreover, "Looks" and "Travel" are not a statistically significant association with intelligence.

And I don't think it takes a genius to figure out how to negotiate the Internet, create YouTube pages, and troll blogs, 4chan, and even to download, install, and set up Tor in order to surf the Deep Web. A person with average intelligence and sufficient time (and commitment) could figure it out; especially given the amount of time that LRM obviously spent online. This was his world.

===

Due to a sampling bias, early research on psychopathy incorrectly found that psychopaths were typically above average intelligence. Subsequent research has shown no such association. Psychopaths come from a range of intelligence and IQ. People should not make the mistake of assuming LRM must be brilliant because he's a narcissistic psychopath who often lies about his own intelligence and IQ.

My assessment is that LRM is of fairly average intelligence, with a high degree of narcissism that leads him to overestimate his own intelligence and capabilities (and underestimate others). That is typical of a psychopath.

It is true that, at times, LRM writes more intelligently than others; but whenever that seems to be the case, someone reveals that his more "intelligent" writing has been copied or plagiarized from somewhere else.

Boodi Moovan was on here the other day talking about her group had gone through his website and sourced pretty much all his more "original" and more intelligent writing to other people and sources. That is, he plagiarized everything.

My theory, as previously stated, is that he's ultimately an attention seeker, which is necessary to feed his psychopathic egoism. So, as with his animal torture videos, he really did want the kill video to eventually be linked back to him, so he could have the fame (like other notorious serial killers); hence the YouTube sockpuppets posting about "1 Lunatic, 1 Icepick" before it was even made.

LRM expected the video to eventually be linked back to him; he just figured he would be long gone by then. He wasn't expecting the police to link him to the murder so quickly, via the torso & suitcase outside his apartment and surveillance videos from his apartment.

His clumsiness and missteps led to his capture much sooner than he expected. Proving, again, his average capacity.
Where I disagree, in terms of intelligence - spelling is not an indicator - in ANY way - intelligence to a large degree is a genetic starting point, and I am the one that did the brilliant.
I am new here, yesterday, and I cut and paste the first writing that blew me away but evidently I did something wrong because it was removed. But I have learned so... that being said.... here is (I hope the right way to do this) the piece of writing that BLEW me away
It is this:
http://luka-magnotta.com/?page_id=37 ONLY the piece
"RECKLESS DISREGARD FOR THE TRUTH"

AND as I learned later, much of the stuff on THAT site was not his writing "BUT RECKLESS DISREGARD FOR THE TRUTH" is not, like copy and paste, internet research stuff. It is creative writing with great vocab, word choice, clarity in writing etc.

Now, can I say I know he wrote it - certainly not - BUT if read in the context of all his stuff, his games, his personas etc., it "feels" as if it was indeed written by him.....It is a first person kind of writing that so mirrors all his crap (kind of like a giant exercise in projection -accusing everyone of doing all the stuff he was doing (manipulative stuff) -

My conclusions with the sloppy writing/spelling were drugs /indifference/being in a rage while he was doing his stuff and writing etc.!

If "RECKLESS DISREGARD FOR THE TRUTH" is read only in the context of all the stuff he has been doing, his whole lofe, it is a first person account ... nothing internet "research" can formulate, nor anything "others" can know not sure if that makes sense ....

In addition, verbally, he is articulate -- another indicator of inteligence.

One more thing from this AM's post :
There is a difference between smart and bright (alter ego stuff, creativity in just being all over the internet as different entities , different jobs, different ages, names, vocations, each with different family histories etc. etc.

Pause folks, --- what do screenwriters, novelists and playwrights do? The exact same thing! Create characters in depth. Create names, identities, looks, mannerisms etc.

My notions surrounding him being bright are centered in the “creativity” demonstrated throughout his entire “created” existence.

OEJ
06-19-2012, 06:54 PM
I don't want to be rude or insult anyone.....but see what is happening here?
You make fun of Luka, make fun of how he looks and acts. This happens every day to a lot of people. People like LM. People who don't "fit in", who are abandoned by their family, who have mental problems or disorders and are being treated like scum. Tormented souls.

I am NOT defending his actions, I am not on 'his side". But this is how society treats people who are different. They are being shut out, picked on, etc.
And once in a while, a "Luka" can't handle it anymore and does awfull things to other human beings. An answer to neglect, a loveless life, being bullied, being misunderstood.
Following this case, it fulfills me with sadness. For both victim and killer.

There is nothing funny about this case.

There's an awesome documentary on youtube called, "Child of Rage" about a little girl who was hurting her little brother and animals and wanted to kill her whole family and everyone else in the world. She went into intensive therapy that really worked for her, but they caught it early.

DD_bwest
06-19-2012, 06:55 PM
ctv must have gotten their sketch artists from montreal's Just for Laughs Festival

CARIIS
06-19-2012, 06:57 PM
I watched it. I started out determined not to watch it, but curiosity got the better of me after a while.
Overall , do you regret you watched?

Dutchie43
06-19-2012, 06:58 PM
There's an awesome documentary on youtube called, "Child of Rage" about a little girl who was hurting her little brother and animals and wanted to kill her whole family and everyone else in the world. She went into intensive therapy that really worked for her, but they caught it early.

She was sexually abused, and then adopted wasn't she? Or is that another story......

thedissent
06-19-2012, 06:59 PM
If you look at the original thread about this you can understand the context of my post better. I wasn't arguing that he was brilliant, but rather that he wasn't mentally retarded. Eventually someone cleared up that a wiki post assigning Luka a low iq was just more Luka bashing.

It's easy to become confused on this board, especially when someone responds to a post from another thread so that people no longer understand the context of the original post.

Fair enough! Yeah, I definitely don't think he's borderline intelligence, or necessarily even below average.

The one sad part about LRM's background, is that he probably never really had a chance to pursue any kind of higher education. That just was never in the cards for him. He seems to have come from a broken home, and went on to lead a broken life.

CARIIS
06-19-2012, 07:00 PM
I understand what you are saying but we do not know if he has received a phone call from his family. I understand that it is being reported that journalists, etc are "following" them. The entire situation is sad for both families but it doesn't take away the anger at what he has done.
Thats true I dont know if anyone has contacted him.

Jujercu
06-19-2012, 07:00 PM
http://www.theprovince.com/news/Luka+Magnotta+prosecutors+reveal+mission+help+fami ly/6808317/story.html

Luka Magnotta prosecutors reveal mission to help Jun Lin’s family

FootballMom
06-19-2012, 07:03 PM
I don't want to be rude or insult anyone.....but see what is happening here?
You make fun of Luka, make fun of how he looks and acts. This happens every day to a lot of people. People like LM. People who don't "fit in", who are abandoned by their family, who have mental problems or disorders and are being treated like scum. Tormented souls.

I am NOT defending his actions, I am not on 'his side". But this is how society treats people who are different. They are being shut out, picked on, etc.
And once in a while, a "Luka" can't handle it anymore and does awfull things to other human beings. An answer to neglect, a loveless life, being bullied, being misunderstood.
Following this case, it fulfills me with sadness. For both victim and killer.

There is nothing funny about this case.

I am guilty... so much of what you stated is sobering... Humor is my coping mechanism but abuse of it can lead to a pack mentality and be counter-productive.

I carry enormous guilt from my childhood for the vast majority of my classmates and I picking on the "weird girl" from kindergarten through middle school... We tormented that innocent girl with our words, insults and shunning. I can only imagine how horrific her childhood must have been being surrounded by bullies (boys & girls).

I tried to find her on FB & through Classmates to apologize but she isn't listed. I pray that we did not ruin her life psychologically.

Also not by any means excusing LRM's actions (nor mine) but I am definitely holding my head in shame at the moment.

~n/t~
06-19-2012, 07:04 PM
Luka Rocco Magnotta pleads not guilty (with video)

http://www.montrealgazette.com/news/Luka+Rocco+Magnotta+pleads+guilty/6807044/story.html

CARIIS
06-19-2012, 07:06 PM
/\THIS/\




The difference between knowing right & wrong (legal & illegal) behaviour VS. the inability to understand OR appreciate the immoral behaviour.

IMO... LRM knew his actions were illegal... he fails to appreciate them as immoral because in his mind his illegal actions are valid or justifiable (for whatever psychotic reason he has bouncing around in there).

"An accused still has to establish that he or she was, as a result of a mental disorder, “incapable of appreciating the nature and quality of the act or omission or of knowing that it was wrong.” In 1990, the Supreme Court of Canada reversed its previous position on the interpretation of “wrong” in that context. In R. v. Chaulk, six of nine judges held that this word meant “morally wrong,” as opposed to “legally wrong.”(39) That interpretation of section 16 was further refined by the Supreme Court in a 1994 decision establishing that “[t]he accused must possess the intellectual ability to know right from wrong in an abstract sense. But he or she must also possess the ability to apply that knowledge in a rational way to the alleged criminal act.”(40)

(39) R. v. Chaulk, [1990] 3 S.C.R. 1303.

(40) R. v. Oommen, [1994] 2 S.C.R. 507, at p. 516.

http://publications.gc.ca/Collection-R/LoPBdP/BP/prb9922-e.htm#3.%20Hospitaltxt


An insane or psychotic person is perfectly capable of committing well planned out & premeditated murder. A quick Google search for the following terms will provide pages and pages documenting such behaviour & trails:

"military" "murder" "psychotic" "mental illness" "premeditated" "altruistic murders" (especially the latter with regard to infanticide committed by mothers)
On this one, I have no doubt he knew what he was doing IT WAS EXACTLY that ---what he was doing is so horrific that made him WANT to do it Does he have mental issues most certainly, but 1 icepick i lunatic (reverse sorry!) was evil to the core with full awareness .
Throw in a trip to the post office ...(boxes/tape/addresses/going to post office/funds for postage(!) all indicate .he knew EXACTLY (with much planning ) and I do not believe a jury will buy that "flavor" of mental illiness ...

Pls he made a trailer two weeks earlier prior to release! Coming soon Opens everywhere May 29!!!!!!!!!!

Karmady
06-19-2012, 07:07 PM
I have seen the video. It didn't give me nightmares.

No nightmares here, either. It was very surreal to me. And I think it made a huge difference (for me) that the victim was already dead when the assaults happened. I'm sure I could not watch an attack on a live human or animal. I can't even watch those in the movies and have a hard time reading them in books. I still haven't watched the kitten vids, for example, and I'm pretty sure I won't ever.

~n/t~
06-19-2012, 07:07 PM
I don't want to be rude or insult anyone.....but see what is happening here?
You make fun of Luka, make fun of how he looks and acts. This happens every day to a lot of people. People like LM. People who don't "fit in", who are abandoned by their family, who have mental problems or disorders and are being treated like scum. Tormented souls.

I am NOT defending his actions, I am not on 'his side". But this is how society treats people who are different. They are being shut out, picked on, etc.
And once in a while, a "Luka" can't handle it anymore and does awfull things to other human beings. An answer to neglect, a loveless life, being bullied, being misunderstood.
Following this case, it fulfills me with sadness. For both victim and killer.

There is nothing funny about this case.

I have no empathy for the accused killer. He's a POS. My empathy and sympathy go to Jun Lin and his family.

Frankly, if Eric Newman kills himself tomorrow, I would not shed one single tear. He's the bully. He took an innocent man's life. Period.

Jujercu
06-19-2012, 07:10 PM
No nightmares here, either. It was very surreal to me. And I think it made a huge difference (for me) that the victim was already dead when the assaults happened. I'm sure I could not watch an attack on a live human or animal. I can't even watch those in the movies and have a hard time reading them in books. I still haven't watched the kitten vids, for example, and I'm pretty sure I won't ever.

My feelings exactly! I can't look at still shots of the kitten videos. I wouldn't have been able to watch the killvid if he actually did the killing while filming it. Surreal was the exact word I used as well. It must have been surreal for JL and his family as well.

Sunday
06-19-2012, 07:10 PM
You pegged him as "bright", an IQ of 115-130. That would put in the top 15% of the population in terms of IQ.

I would say closer to 85-100, which is low average to average (in the 45-55% range).

His writing, spelling, and grammar really is terrible. :)

Oh, Lord, here we go again. Scientific has jumped through hoops and provided logical evidence to support his ascertation that LM is at least of average+ intelligence, and that grammatical skills are NOT an indication of IQ, but more indicative of formal education. There is no way in hell anyone can assign an actual value. Nobody said he's a genius. <modsnip>

Karmady
06-19-2012, 07:11 PM
She was sexually abused, and then adopted wasn't she? Or is that another story......

She was. Horifically iirc. She's a nurse now.

BorgQueen
06-19-2012, 07:12 PM
I don't want to be rude or insult anyone.....but see what is happening here?
You make fun of Luka, make fun of how he looks and acts. This happens every day to a lot of people. People like LM. People who don't "fit in", who are abandoned by their family, who have mental problems or disorders and are being treated like scum. Tormented souls.

I am NOT defending his actions, I am not on 'his side". But this is how society treats people who are different. They are being shut out, picked on, etc.
And once in a while, a "Luka" can't handle it anymore and does awfull things to other human beings. An answer to neglect, a loveless life, being bullied, being misunderstood.
Following this case, it fulfills me with sadness. For both victim and killer.

There is nothing funny about this case.

I see where you are coming from, and I do agree. I can't speak for others, but I think that the taunting you see here stems from rage. People are mad at him for what he has done.
Personally, if he had never killed anybody, I would feel sympathetic toward him. I'd probably defend him and perhaps even attempt to befriend him. I know what bullying feels like, and it is not fun. But not everybody who has been bullied, who is lonely and isolated, goes on to kill people. I have seen many people who have expressed some sort of sympathy for this guy and the life he has lived... up until the moment he killed Lin Jun. After that point, there is nothing but anger and rage at the accused, which is where the eyebrow jokes and other teasing begins.

I, personally, doubt that anybody here who is teasing him would be doing that if he didn't go on to murder. I suspect many would attempt to help him and show compassion. But, perhaps that would have ended with one of us as the victim instead of Mr. Lin.

:moo: :twocents:

Meowen
06-19-2012, 07:13 PM
Where I disagree, in terms of intelligence - spelling is not an indicator - in ANY way - intelligence to a large degree is a genetic starting point, and I am the one that did the brilliant.
I am new here, yesterday, and I cut and paste the first writing that blew me away but evidently I did something wrong because it was removed. But I have learned so... that being said.... here is (I hope the right way to do this) the piece of writing that BLEW me away
It is this:
http://luka-magnotta.com/?page_id=37 ONLY the piece
"RECKLESS DISREGARD FOR THE TRUTH"

AND as I learned later, much of the stuff on THAT site was not his writing "BUT RECKLESS DISREGARD FOR THE TRUTH" is not, like copy and paste, internet research stuff. It is creative writing with great vocab, word choice, clarity in writing etc.

Now, can I say I know he wrote it - certainly not - BUT if read in the context of all his stuff, his games, his personas etc., it "feels" as if it was indeed written by him.....It is a first person kind of writing that so mirrors all his crap (kind of like a giant exercise in projection -accusing everyone of doing all the stuff he was doing (manipulative stuff) -

My conclusions with the sloppy writing/spelling were drugs /indifference/being in a rage while he was doing his stuff and writing etc.!

If "RECKLESS DISREGARD FOR THE TRUTH" is read only in the context of all the stuff he has been doing, his whole lofe, it is a first person account ... nothing internet "research" can formulate, nor anything "others" can know not sure if that makes sense ....

In addition, verbally, he is articulate -- another indicator of inteligence.

One more thing from this AM's post :
There is a difference between smart and bright (alter ego stuff, creativity in just being all over the internet as different entities , different jobs, different ages, names, vocations, each with different family histories etc. etc.

Pause folks, --- what do screenwriters, novelists and playwrights do? The exact same thing! Create characters in depth. Create names, identities, looks, mannerisms etc.

My notions surrounding him being bright are centered in the “creativity” demonstrated throughout his entire “created” existence.

He doesn't seem to know the definition of "telekenitic" which is the ability to move things with your mind. I don't think this writing is brilliant..

OEJ
06-19-2012, 07:13 PM
She was sexually abused, and then adopted wasn't she? Or is that another story......

Yes, that's the one.

CARIIS
06-19-2012, 07:16 PM
My feelings exactly! I can't look at still shots of the kitten videos. I wouldn't have been able to watch the killvid if he actually did the killing while filming it. Surreal was the exact word I used as well. It must have been surreal for JL and his family as well.
God I hope his family did not watch it .....irony...... right when everything breaking 1 lunatic I did go there (before it was banned) sat there and a voice kept saying NO

but the kitten videos no stuggle there ABSOL NOT!

but as I sit here now I am glad I listened to my voice that night and did NOT click play...

..Now I must confess for the first 48 hours as it was breaking I stuggled!!

And it was a struggle NOT to check it out , .....

thedissent
06-19-2012, 07:17 PM
Oh, Lord, here we go again. Scientific has jumped through hoops and provided logical evidence to support his ascertation that LM is at least of average+ intelligence, and that grammatical skills are NOT an indication of IQ, but more indicative of formal education. There is no way in hell anyone can assign an actual value. Nobody said he's a genius. <modsnip>

Uh, before launching into a tirade, could you please go back and re-read my post which responded to *each* and every bit of Scientific's post?

ARRESTED- Luka Rocco Magnotta:1st deg murder charge #10 - Page 15 - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community


Thanks.

Dutchie43
06-19-2012, 07:18 PM
I am guilty... so much of what you stated is sobering... Humor is my coping mechanism but abuse of it can lead to a pack mentality and be counter-productive.

I carry enormous guilt from my childhood for the vast majority of my classmates and I picking on the "weird girl" from kindergarten through middle school... We tormented that innocent girl with our words, insults and shunning. I can only imagine how horrific her childhood must have been being surrounded by bullies (boys & girls).

I tried to find her on FB & through Classmates to apologize but she isn't listed. I pray that we did not ruin her life psychologically.

Also not by any means excusing LRM's actions (nor mine) but I am definitely holding my head in shame at the moment.

When I was a child, I was the "weird girl". I was bullied for 7 years. They beat me up, shut me out, ignored me, called me names. I also had problems at home. I was completely isolated, because no one would listen or would take the time to see the signs there was something wrong.
It took me years to recover. I never hurt anyone, but I can understand people like me are pushed over the edge. Hate can build up and some people (like LM) apperently can't controll that hate for other human beings. To me it looks like LM hated society and people so much, he created his own imaginary perfect world. I believe at some point he "woke up" and found himself completely alone. With nothing but hate, sadness. Like I said before, I believe this was his answer to all the pain.

Sunday
06-19-2012, 07:20 PM
Me thinks we need better sketch artists. Wait. Maybe he does look like this. I don't think he'd be too happy with this. :floorlaugh:

http://images.ctv.ca/archives/CTVNews/img2/20120619/800_luka_magnotta_sketch_120619.jpg

http://www.ctv.ca/CTVNews/Canada/20120619/magnotta-montreal-police-interrogation-120619/

I'm pretty sure that's my Uncle Stan.

~n/t~
06-19-2012, 07:20 PM
Lest we forget who the true victim is here.

http://images.ctv.ca/archives/CTVNews/img2/20120601/800_jun_lin_cp_120601.jpg

http://www.ctv.ca/CTVNews/Canada/20120601/french-police-magnotto-search-120601/

scapa
06-19-2012, 07:25 PM
Me thinks we need better sketch artists. Wait. Maybe he does look like this. I don't think he'd be too happy with this. :floorlaugh:

http://images.ctv.ca/archives/CTVNews/img2/20120619/800_luka_magnotta_sketch_120619.jpg

http://www.ctv.ca/CTVNews/Canada/20120619/magnotta-montreal-police-interrogation-120619/

My 3 year-old, he of the vivid imagination, confidently identified this as image as a "blechy worm-man being washed by the sky." All sorts of symbolic possibilities there.

And no, he does not have unfettered access to WS.

s

Sunday
06-19-2012, 07:26 PM
Uh, before launching into a tirade, could you please go back and re-read my post which responded to *each* and every bit of Scientific's post?

ARRESTED- Luka Rocco Magnotta:1st deg murder charge #10 - Page 15 - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community (http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=8065730#post8065730)


Thanks.

I did, and I disagree with most of your counter-arguments, as well.

~n/t~
06-19-2012, 07:27 PM
If the POS accused killer had any remorse, he'd plead guilty and tell authorities where the rest of the victim's remains are so he can be finally taken home by his family and receive a proper funeral service.

Jezbel
06-19-2012, 07:29 PM
It is sad, but I do know how it feels. Having a kid taught me who my friends really are. Turned out to be nobody. I have been isolated for about 5 years now, with no friends or others in my life. I have no time to myself to go out and try to make friends, plus social anxiety which makes that difficult. But, instead of going and killing somebody, I joined WS, and have also made friends in random places of the world, whom I talk to online. It is a lonely existence, and I sometimes binge drink, but that is the worst thing I do. I have no desire to kill anybody. Not even Magnotta.
His loneliness may be related to something (such as mental illness) which may have caused him to flip out the way he has, but the loneliness itself is not the cause of it. Only a symptom.

I look at Magnotta and try to feel some sort of compassion or sympathy... but then I get to the point where I just can't, because of what he has done. But, there is no doubt that his life and existence has been quite sad. Troubling, indeed.

Sending hugs your way. I'm glad you have found friends here and other places online, I can only imagine how lonely it must get. I live in a city where I know no one, just me, my other half and my lil girl, my friends are two hours away and never visit, so I have some idea how it feels sometimes. I remember you telling your story in another thread. I'm glad you decided to join WS instead of other dreadful things
Chin up girl :)

thedissent
06-19-2012, 07:29 PM
I did, and I disagree with most of your counter-arguments, as well.

Well, that's unfortunate.

OEJ
06-19-2012, 07:32 PM
She was. Horifically iirc. She's a nurse now.

IIRC, she had been abused and terribly neglected in just the first year of life before she was rescued. But, she remembered it and remained deeply affected even though she was in a great, loving home.

x_files
06-19-2012, 07:32 PM
When I was a child, I was the "weird girl". I was bullied for 7 years. They beat me up, shut me out, ignored me, called me names. I also had problems at home. I was completely isolated, because no one would listen or would take the time to see the signs there was something wrong.
It took me years to recover. I never hurt anyone, but I can understand people like me are pushed over the edge. Hate can build up and some people (like LM) apperently can't controll that hate for other human beings. To me it looks like LM hated society and people so much, he created his own imaginary perfect world. I believe at some point he "woke up" and found himself completely alone. With nothing but hate, sadness. Like I said before, I believe this was his answer to all the pain.

Whether or not Luka was born a psychopath we do not know yet, but abuse at home and bullying at school sure would not help matters. Some psychopaths go off to be CEO's , work on Wall Street or become performers but, do not kill.
I think his genetic makeup and predisposition for psychopathy, mixed with environment created the perfect storm.
This is why bullying is an extremely dangerous and evil act. My parents did not allow bullying or encourage it (I have seen parents encourage horrible teasing/bullying) and I did not bully or tease. I stood up for my friends who were teased and I stood up to my bullies. Thank god, I had supportive and loving family. If they abused me also, I am unsure what I would have become.

Sealuzna
06-19-2012, 07:33 PM
When I was a child, I was the "weird girl". I was bullied for 7 years. They beat me up, shut me out, ignored me, called me names. I also had problems at home. I was completely isolated, because no one would listen or would take the time to see the signs there was something wrong.
It took me years to recover. I never hurt anyone, but I can understand people like me are pushed over the edge. Hate can build up and some people (like LM) apperently can't controll that hate for other human beings. To me it looks like LM hated society and people so much, he created his own imaginary perfect world. I believe at some point he "woke up" and found himself completely alone. With nothing but hate, sadness. Like I said before, I believe this was his answer to all the pain.
I'm so sorry you had to endure that, Dutchie43.

CARIIS
06-19-2012, 07:36 PM
Oh, Lord, here we go again. Scientific has jumped through hoops and provided logical evidence to support his ascertation that LM is at least of average+ intelligence, and that grammatical skills are NOT an indication of IQ, but more indicative of formal education. There is no way in hell anyone can assign an actual value. Nobody said he's a genius. <modsnip>
Question for veterns! The pages here fill up fast! Is this faster than normal cause of the last 24 hours or typical?

prima.facie
06-19-2012, 07:36 PM
When I was a child, I was the "weird girl". I was bullied for 7 years. They beat me up, shut me out, ignored me, called me names. I also had problems at home. I was completely isolated, because no one would listen or would take the time to see the signs there was something wrong.
It took me years to recover. I never hurt anyone, but I can understand people like me are pushed over the edge. Hate can build up and some people (like LM) apperently can't controll that hate for other human beings. To me it looks like LM hated society and people so much, he created his own imaginary perfect world. I believe at some point he "woke up" and found himself completely alone. With nothing but hate, sadness. Like I said before, I believe this was his answer to all the pain.

you and zillions of other people....HOWEVER....you chose not to take the life of innocent beings, right?

there is ZERO excuse for making the choice to kill animals and an innocent man. that is all on luka and so is any treatement he gets from here on out. he should have reached out for professional help...but nope, he chose to kill animals and a human.....

screw him.

at what point do we stop sympathizing for people who chose to be monsters and harm others and stand up and not make excuses for them? does it have to hit close to home? does it have to be a child? where is that line? because for me that line is immiediately upon the choice to take an innocent life.


with that said, im very sorry you went thru that in your life. im sure there are many people here who can relate, including myself, on some level. the difference is we dont make the choice to kill animals and other humans and deny them the right to life.

Dutchie43
06-19-2012, 07:38 PM
I'm so sorry you had to endure that, Dutchie43.

Thank you. I'm perfectly fine now.......

jeanne
06-19-2012, 07:38 PM
I am guilty... so much of what you stated is sobering... Humor is my coping mechanism but abuse of it can lead to a pack mentality and be counter-productive.

I carry enormous guilt from my childhood for the vast majority of my classmates and I picking on the "weird girl" from kindergarten through middle school... We tormented that innocent girl with our words, insults and shunning. I can only imagine how horrific her childhood must have been being surrounded by bullies (boys & girls).

I tried to find her on FB & through Classmates to apologize but she isn't listed. I pray that we did not ruin her life psychologically.

Also not by any means excusing LRM's actions (nor mine) but I am definitely holding my head in shame at the moment.

I am one of those kids who was bullied and laughed at. I was the only adopted kid in my school back at a time when adopted kids were automatically considered 'bad seed', and then as I got older, I was one of a very few 'out' gay people in my neighborhood. The effects of childhood bullying stay with your throughout life, and I still feel the pain of it from time to time, so I can empathize with Luka somehwat, as I am certain he was an ostracized kid, and no doubt that played a part in his mental deterioration.

OEJ
06-19-2012, 07:40 PM
I see were you are coming from, and I do agree. I can't speak for others, but I think that the taunting you see here stems from rage. People are mad at him for what he has done.
Personally, if he had never killed anybody, I would feel sympathetic toward him. I'd probably defend him and perhaps even attempt to befriend him. I know what bullying feels like, and it is not fun. But not everybody who has been bullied, who is lonely and isolated, goes on to kill people. I have seen many people who have expressed some sort of sympathy for this guy and the life he has lived... up until the moment he killed Lin Jun. After that point, there is nothing but anger and rage at the accused, which is where the eyebrow jokes and other teasing begins.

I, personally, doubt that anybody here who is teasing him would be doing that if he didn't go on to murder. I suspect many would attempt to help him and show compassion. But, perhaps that would have ended with one of us as the victim instead of Mr. Lin.

:moo: :twocents:

Heck, the kitten killing videos did it for me, much less Jun Lin. However, we NEED people who can feel empathy for these lost souls if for no other reason, they might be reached at some point enough to keep them from killing anyone. Whether we like it or not, there are people who are having intrusive thoughts of murder and other horrible things, and they're not telling anyone because of the fall-out they perceive they will receive.

People like this need to realize they can go get counseling and meds to help them.

CARIIS
06-19-2012, 07:41 PM
I am one of those kids who was bullied and laughed at. I was the only adopted kid in my school back at a time when adopted kids were automatically considered 'bad seed', and then as I got older, I was one of a very few 'out' gay people in my neighborhood. The effects of childhood bullying stay with your throughout life, and I still feel the pain of it from time to time, so I can empathize with Luka somehwat, as I am certain he was an ostracized kid, and no doubt that played a part in his mental deterioration.
Football hey at least you took responsibility and attempted to at some level address your wounding....................thats a lot no?

scapa
06-19-2012, 07:42 PM
When I was a child, I was the "weird girl". I was bullied for 7 years. They beat me up, shut me out, ignored me, called me names. I also had problems at home. I was completely isolated, because no one would listen or would take the time to see the signs there was something wrong.
It took me years to recover. I never hurt anyone, but I can understand people like me are pushed over the edge. Hate can build up and some people (like LM) apperently can't controll that hate for other human beings. To me it looks like LM hated society and people so much, he created his own imaginary perfect world. I believe at some point he "woke up" and found himself completely alone. With nothing but hate, sadness. Like I said before, I believe this was his answer to all the pain.

Difference can be crippling, especially when it is met by hostility through bullying -- I am truly sorry for what you went through.

Part of my problem in making sense of this case is that LRM seems not to have had coherent idea of what his "perfect world" might look like. What did he like? Not sex, not love (seemingly), not other people, not himself, not thinking -- travel, perhaps, but more obviously travel pix with himself in them, real or not, after-the-fact simulacra of himself and the world. Beyond that, he liked to provoke and shock and unsettle and hurt -- that was clearly his life's calling, recently at any rate. I agree that LRN was broken, but if the breaking, the story of it, is interesting, the product (him) just isn't. He's a void, IMO.

s

OEJ
06-19-2012, 07:43 PM
When I was a child, I was the "weird girl". I was bullied for 7 years. They beat me up, shut me out, ignored me, called me names. I also had problems at home. I was completely isolated, because no one would listen or would take the time to see the signs there was something wrong.
It took me years to recover. I never hurt anyone, but I can understand people like me are pushed over the edge. Hate can build up and some people (like LM) apperently can't controll that hate for other human beings. To me it looks like LM hated society and people so much, he created his own imaginary perfect world. I believe at some point he "woke up" and found himself completely alone. With nothing but hate, sadness. Like I said before, I believe this was his answer to all the pain.

I think it's a bit more complicated than that, but I can relate to your story. Thank you for sharing.

Dutchie43
06-19-2012, 07:45 PM
you and zillions of other people....HOWEVER....you chose not to take the life of innocent beings, right?

there is ZERO excuse for making the choice to kill animals and an innocent man. that is all on luka and so is any treatement he gets from here on out. he should have reached out for professional help...but nope, he chose to kill animals and a human.....

screw him.

at what point do we stop sympathizing for people who chose to be monsters and harm others and stand up and not make excuses for them? does it have to hit close to home? does it have to be a child? where is that line? because for me that line is immiediately upon the choice to take an innocent life.


with that said, im very sorry you went thru that in your life. im sure there are many people here who can relate, including myself, on some level. the difference is we dont make the choice to kill animals and other humans and deny them the right to life.

I do agree with what you are saying. But what I was trying to say, is that in LM's case it may be a combination of the things I wrote AND a disorder.
In my opinion that is the difference between people who are "just"bullied, and people who have a disorder also. I was only trying to say that we all must be carefull with who we pick on.

Pfew, I don't think I am getting my point across. Sorry. It's not easy to express myself in English.

If I stepped on any toes, sorry. And offcourse my sympathy goes out to JL and his family. I feel very sorry for them.

~n/t~
06-19-2012, 07:46 PM
I don't think the accused killer needs people to compare themselves to his "possible" bullying life without any proof whatsoever that he was even bullied as a child or anytime in his life.

What we do know is he craved fame. He sought and admired two of Canada's worse serial killers. He made up a fairytale story of dating one of them and then went out to seek a reporter to tell his BS story and denied the allegations he, himself made up. He is alleged to have killed kittens and again posted the video and gained notoriety because of his horrific pleasures in shocking people but that wasn't enough. He then went to kill an innocent human being, taping the horror and posting it online to the shock and horror of those who viewed the video.

Nah. The only bully here is Eric Newman. He took innocent lives for his own sick pleasure.

FootballMom
06-19-2012, 07:49 PM
When I was a child, I was the "weird girl". I was bullied for 7 years. They beat me up, shut me out, ignored me, called me names. I also had problems at home. I was completely isolated, because no one would listen or would take the time to see the signs there was something wrong.
It took me years to recover. I never hurt anyone, but I can understand people like me are pushed over the edge. Hate can build up and some people (like LM) apperently can't controll that hate for other human beings. To me it looks like LM hated society and people so much, he created his own imaginary perfect world. I believe at some point he "woke up" and found himself completely alone. With nothing but hate, sadness. Like I said before, I believe this was his answer to all the pain.

I am soooo very sorry. Please accept my sincerest & most heartfelt apology for being a "mean girl". I know that I can never make up for the emotional pain that you endured or that I inflicted onto her.

I can only raise my son to be a better person than I was and so far I've managed to do a pretty outstanding job. (Bragging alert: He was one of a few hundred kids in the US who have been accepted into a prestigious peer counseling committee against stereotyping.)

I know what it is like to suffer from emotional, physical & sexual abuse. It isn't pretty and yes... I can say when you get pushed to the edge it changes everything. Life is never the same and each trip back to the edge gets easier. Unless you have been there yourself it is not possible for another to understand the seduction of its grasp. It is both frightening & intoxicating.

Yes, I appear empathetic towards the mentally ill but that does not mean I am sympathetic towards their crimes nor do I lose my heartbreak for the victim & both families. I make no apologies for having compassion towards the suffering of anyone.

Yes, I believe LRM is insane. Yes, I believe he planned out every murder he committed (kittens & humans). Yes, I believe he did it to try to quell & satiate his screaming inner demons.

It matters to me how those demons came into existence. Were they born or nature, nurture, abuse, environment, all of the aforementioned or combination or were they conjured through some unknown means?

We won't know until or if his psychological profile is released and I for one am totally fascinated to find out who LRM really is underneath his skin.

Sealuzna
06-19-2012, 07:51 PM
... what I was trying to say, is that in LM's case it may be a combination of the things I wrote AND a disorder.
In my opinion that is the difference between people who are "just"bullied, and people who have a disorder also. I was only trying to say that we all must be carefull with who we pick on.

Pfew, I don't think I am getting my point across. Sorry. It's not easy to express myself in English.
That is exactly how I read your post, Dutchie43, when you said some people are unable to contain their hate and act out.

I don't believe you have anything to apologize for. :)

jeanne
06-19-2012, 07:54 PM
I don't think the accused killer needs people to compare themselves to his "possible" bullying life without any proof whatsoever that he was even bullied as a child or anytime in his life.

What we do know is he craved fame. He sought and admired two of Canada's worse serial killers. He made up a fairytale story of dating one of them and then went out to seek a reporter to tell his BS story and denied the allegations he, himself made up. He is alleged to have killed kittens and again posted the video and gained notoriety because of his horrific pleasures in shocking people but that wasn't enough. He then went to kill an innocent human being, taping the horror and posting it online to the shock and horror of those who viewed the video.

Nah. The only bully here is Eric Newman. He took innocent lives for his own sick pleasure.

I am sorry that our empathy is upsetting to you. I think in the end, we are all trying to understand why and the only measuring stick we have is our own life experiences. We want to know why someone goes on to become a monster, and perhaps why we didn't. I think this is a normal human response to something almost to horrible to believe. Call it 'anatomy of a monster', if you will, we are dissecting his life, comparing it to aspects of our own and trying to make sense of it all. None of us are apologists for Luka, and all of us want to see him properly punished...make no mistake about it, but it says something wonderful to me that we can even have empathy for someone like LRM.

CARIIS
06-19-2012, 07:54 PM
That is exactly how I read your post, Dutchie43, when you said some people are unable to contain their hate and act out.

I don't believe you have anything to apologize for. :)
I agree no apology needed!

Dutchie43
06-19-2012, 07:57 PM
I am soooo very sorry. Please accept my sincerest & most heartfelt apology for being a "mean girl". I know that I can never make up for the emotional pain that you endured or that I inflicted onto her.

I can only raise my son to be a better person than I was and so far I've managed to do a pretty outstanding job. (Bragging alert: He was one of a few hundred kids in the US who have been accepted into a prestigious peer counseling committee against stereotyping.)

I know what it is like to suffer from emotional, physical & sexual abuse. It isn't pretty and yes... I can say when you get pushed to the edge it changes everything. Life is never the same and each trip back to the edge gets easier. Unless you have been there yourself it is not possible for another to understand the seduction of its grasp. It is both frightening & intoxicating.

Yes, I appear empathetic towards the mentally ill but that does not mean I am sympathetic towards their crimes nor do I lose my heartbreak for the victim & both families. I make no apologies for having compassion towards the suffering of anyone.

Yes, I believe LRM is insane. Yes, I believe he planned out every murder he committed (kittens & humans). Yes, I believe he did it to try to quell & satiate his screaming inner demons.

It matters to me how those demons came into existence. Were they born or nature, nurture, abuse, environment, all of the aforementioned or combination or were they conjured through some unknown means?

We won't know until or if his psychological profile is released and I for one am totally fascinated to find out who LRM really is underneath his skin.

It's ok....;-) And I admire your honesty!

And the things you wrote were exactly the things I was trying to say.

CARIIS
06-19-2012, 08:01 PM
I am sorry that our empathy is upsetting to you. I think in the end, we are all trying to understand why and the only measuring stick we have is our own life experiences. We want to know why someone goes on to become a monster, and perhaps why we didn't. I think this is a normal human response to something almost to horrible to believe. Call it 'anatomy of a monster', if you will, we are dissecting his life, comparing it to aspects of our own and trying to make sense of it all. None of us are apologists for Luka, and all of us want to see him properly punished...make no mistake about it, but it says something wonderful to me that we can even have empathy for someone like LRM.
That is exactly what I was tyrying to say you did it great -- what we all are really attempting to do is somehow someway understand this . I do not LIKE him , but understand that there ARE things that occurred in his existance (not under his control) that resulted in why we all are here at WS attemptng to understand, clarify , catagorize and verbilize our own confusions , questions, notions - its all about each of us in our own way an attempt to put this in some understandable framework.

In some way each of us are greiving but we all do it in different ways etc. THe past 24 hours have been helpful for me - I have followed this from the beginning but I am sure you all experience same thing - there are LOTS of people who do not follow it, nor want to rap about it . This has been helpful- its cathartic at some level.

~n/t~
06-19-2012, 08:03 PM
I am sorry that our empathy is upsetting to you. I think in the end, we are all trying to understand why and the only measuring stick we have is our own life experiences. We want to know why someone goes on to become a monster, and perhaps why we didn't. I think this is a mornal human response to something almost to horrible to believe. Can it 'anatomy of a monster', if you will, we are dissecting his life, comparing it to aspects of our own and trying to make sense of it all. None of us are apologists for Luka, and all of us want to see him properly punished...make no mistake about it, but it says something wonderful to me that we can even have empathy for someone like LRM.

I'm not upset in the least. I don't empathize with killers. IMO, if he's got many empathizing, he achieved his goal.

Let's put him in a mental ward and declare him rehabilitated in a year or 2. Hey, if it worked for child killer Turcotte, it may work for Eric Newman. Or let's lock him up for a ummm let's say 12 years and send him to the Carribean like Homolka.

FootballMom
06-19-2012, 08:04 PM
Heck, the kitten killing videos did it for me, much less Jun Lin. However, we NEED people who can feel empathy for these lost souls if for no other reason, they might be reached at some point enough to keep them from killing anyone. Whether we like it or not, there are people who are having intrusive thoughts of murder and other horrible things, and they're not telling anyone because of the fall-out they perceive they will receive.

People like this need to realize they can go get counseling and meds to help them.

BBM

And WE as their families, friends and community need to help those who do not understand mental illness and those who do not believe they have a mental illness. The latter is a fine line because trying to rationalize with an irrational person generally pushes them away and into a deeper & darker hole.

CARIIS
06-19-2012, 08:05 PM
It's ok....;-) And I admire your honesty!

And the things you wrote were exactly the things I was trying to say.
You know what just hit me -- there is NO WAY (pleading not guilty) he is going to tell anyone about location of head. We all need to let go of that - can't (with a not guilty plea) happen............................................ ...............

OEJ
06-19-2012, 08:06 PM
I am soooo very sorry. Please accept my sincerest & most heartfelt apology for being a "mean girl". I know that I can never make up for the emotional pain that you endured or that I inflicted onto her.

I can only raise my son to be a better person than I was and so far I've managed to do a pretty outstanding job. (Bragging alert: He was one of a few hundred kids in the US who have been accepted into a prestigious peer counseling committee against stereotyping.)

I know what it is like to suffer from emotional, physical & sexual abuse. It isn't pretty and yes... I can say when you get pushed to the edge it changes everything. Life is never the same and each trip back to the edge gets easier. Unless you have been there yourself it is not possible for another to understand the seduction of its grasp. It is both frightening & intoxicating.

Yes, I appear empathetic towards the mentally ill but that does not mean I am sympathetic towards their crimes nor do I lose my heartbreak for the victim & both families. I make no apologies for having compassion towards the suffering of anyone.

Yes, I believe LRM is insane. Yes, I believe he planned out every murder he committed (kittens & humans). Yes, I believe he did it to try to quell & satiate his screaming inner demons.

It matters to me how those demons came into existence. Were they born or nature, nurture, abuse, environment, all of the aforementioned or combination or were they conjured through some unknown means?

We won't know until or if his psychological profile is released and I for one am totally fascinated to find out who LRM really is underneath his skin.

Excellent post. Thank you so much for sharing. I've been on both sides. Victimizer and victim. Thank God I found my humanity along the way. I managed not to kill anyone, human or animal, but I was pretty mean.

jeanne
06-19-2012, 08:08 PM
I'm not upset in the least. I don't empathize with killers. IMO, if he's got many empathizing, he achieved his goal.

Let's put him in a mental ward and declare him rehabilitated in a year or 2. Hey, if it worked for child killer Turcotte, it may work for Eric Newman. Or let's lock him up for a ummm let's say 12 years and send him to the Carribean like Homolka.

Better still, why don't we set up the gallows again and hang him by the neck until dead?

I want him punished. I want him locked up for the rest of his natural life so he can never harm anyone again. But that doesn't stop me for having pity for his miserable existence and hope that Lin Jun's death leads to us being able to understand the 'next' Luka, and get him help before he ends up another murdering statistic.

Dutchie43
06-19-2012, 08:09 PM
It's time for me to go to sleep......Stay save! And be sweet to each other!

@~n/t~ Being cynical is fine......but let's respect each others opinion, ok?

GROUPHUGGGGGGGGGGGG!!!!!!!

~n/t~
06-19-2012, 08:10 PM
It's Canada. He's liable to get 2 or 3 years on probation.

You're right!

Sealuzna
06-19-2012, 08:11 PM
You know what just hit me -- there is NO WAY (pleading not guilty) he is going to tell anyone about location of head. We all need to let go of that - can't (with a not guilty plea) happen............................................ ...............

He can tell police where the head is and plead not guilty as, and if, his lawyer pursues the 672.11b.

jeanne
06-19-2012, 08:11 PM
You're right!

No. He most certainly is NOT right.

BorgQueen
06-19-2012, 08:16 PM
A little bit off topic:

Reading stories that people have shared on this board over time has been very interesting. So many people from different walks of life, with different (and often quite horrible) experiences and life stories. And we aren't killers. Goes to show that no matter what has happened to somebody in their life, there is absolutely no excuse to kill. There are other ways to deal with the built up negative emotions. Nobody needs to get hurt.

~n/t~
06-19-2012, 08:17 PM
Better still, why don't we set up the gallows again and hang him by the neck until dead?

I want him punished. I want him locked up for the rest of his natural life so he can never harm anyone again. But that doesn't stop me for having pity for his miserable existence and hope that Lin Jun's death leads to us being able to understand the 'next' Luka, and get him help before he ends up another murdering statistic.

I'm good with that. I'm 100% for reinstating the death penalty in this country.

jeanne
06-19-2012, 08:18 PM
I'm good with that. I'm 100% for reinstating the death penalty in this country.

I am not. I am for a more civilized society, not less.

Sealuzna
06-19-2012, 08:20 PM
I'm good with that. I'm 100% for reinstating the death penalty in this country.I'm not.

~n/t~
06-19-2012, 08:21 PM
I am not. I am for a more civilized society, not less.

An eye for an eye. Someone murders an innocent human being, they deserve to suffer the same fate.

These killers are not civilized. They murder men, women and children.

CARIIS
06-19-2012, 08:22 PM
He can tell police where the head is and plead not guilty as, and if, his lawyer pursues the 672.11b.
basically what does 672.11b say?

LadyL
06-19-2012, 08:23 PM
IDK... I feel that Luka emulates everything that is wrong with our society today. He is the poster child for the dysfunctional family and crappy parenting as well as self-absorbed, narcissistic, attention-needy, celebrity-inspired and internet-driven youth. You know, this was just the perfect combination of combination of ingredients. It's like a chemical reaction - you just keep dumping compound after compound together you are likely to eventually blow something up. You have a dysfunctional family, troubled childhood, abuse, mental illness, perhaps drugs, the media, the internet, horror movies, fame/celebrity, reality TV, sexual dysfunction, the deep web, blurred boundaries... the list is never ending. Well, world, look at what you created. Seems to me like this is a reaction that is unlikely to cease.

[bbm]

excellent observation IMO

Reannan
06-19-2012, 08:24 PM
Overall , do you regret you watched?
I watched it, and I regret that the murder happened, but no, I don't regret watching it. That is just how my mind works. For me, discussing the case without seeing the video would be like discussing a book I had never read. My career in Pathology also tends to make me very clinical and I analyze the world from data. I understand and support other people for NOT watching it. I can't watch the kitten videos. I am not sure what that means, but it is the same reason I can work in a hospital but not in a Veterinary clinic.

susan1122
06-19-2012, 08:25 PM
I highly recommend this be watched. Graphic content. ABC report. Please watch to the end and listen to the statement about the blank look, no remorse, etc. Sounds familiar to me.

The Mind of a Psychopath - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6V7EL-Yg8Gg&feature=related)

This is so scary. And sad. What strikes me is how honest Tommy Lee Sells is about himself. "I am about hate. Two words I don't use: love and sorry" (paraphrased). It's chilling. I hope the girl that survived is OK.

Sealuzna
06-19-2012, 08:26 PM
basically what does 672.11b say?

Under section 672.11(b) of the Criminal Code of Canada, a court can order a psychiatric assessment of the mental condition of the accused to see if he or she should be exempt from criminal responsibility.

Sunday
06-19-2012, 08:28 PM
I know what it is like to suffer from emotional, physical & sexual abuse.

I immediately knew that you must have experienced something to cause you to behave this way.

I was bullied pretty hard from grades 2-6. I lived in a beautiful, large, 16 room house on 6 acres in upstate NY, but because we were right on the line between two school districts (one good, one bad) I was required to attend the bad district with a lot of poor kids, migrant worker children, etc. There was extreme poverty. Some of the kids who rode my school bus lived in ramshackled houses with no electricity or indoor plumbing, and others lived in motels with drugs addicted parents. Needless to say, I was picked on and beat up every single day by these kids. My hair was clean and neatly styled so they'd spit or stick gum in it. They'd cut my new clothes, coats, etc., with scissors. Once I was invited to a birthday party by the kids up the street and my parents reluctantly let me go. I was invited only to be tortured and beat up by the entire group of kids for 2 straight hours.

At first I didn't understand and was just so humiliated and didn't know why they all seemed to hate me. As I got older I realized that they were acting out due to their own horrible circumstances, and they were jealous of my home and family. Little did they know that appearances are deceiving and my home was nowhere near as great as they thought it to be.

Anyway, my point is that bullies are usually experiencing rage and taking out their anger on someone else. There is always a method to the madness.

LadyL
06-19-2012, 08:28 PM
What I see in all of LM's photos is someone trying so hard to be someone else.
Attractive, not attractive, it doesn't really matter. Even with all his "bravado", I still think deep down he didn't feel good enough, attractive enough, young enough.
Not saying we should feel sorry for him--not at all.
But the mother in me, at times, looks at an earlier photograph and wonders if a genuine hug from somebody who truly cared, would have made a difference.

[bbm]

I do that too and I do believe it would have made a difference.

jeanne
06-19-2012, 08:29 PM
An eye for an eye. Someone murders an innocent human being, they deserve to suffer the same fate.

These killers are not civilized. They murder men, women and children.

"An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind. Mahatma Gandhi"

Mbshafeena
06-19-2012, 08:30 PM
I am wondering if it is basically his lawyer in germany who suggested he plead not guilty and ask for an evaluation when he returned here.

thefragile7393
06-19-2012, 08:34 PM
An eye for an eye. Someone murders an innocent human being, they deserve to suffer the same fate.

These killers are not civilized. They murder men, women and children.

I agree. Keeping some people alive does no good. Why should he get 3 squares and a bed every day when his victim does not have this? In prison he will be alive and breathing...something he deliberately took away from his victim. How is this just?

Some crimes are so heinous and horrible.....why should they be rewarded with the very thing they took away from someone in such a deranged way? What he did was beyond uncivilized....and yet keeping him alive serves what purpose?

I read about some of the sickest killers in history and some of them have been put to death already. In reading interviews with some of the families...they are not mourning them and wishing that they didn't get the death penalty for killing their loved one.
Sent from my SGH-T989 using Tapatalk 2

~n/t~
06-19-2012, 08:37 PM
"An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind. Mahatma Gandhi"

Poor Gandhi. Did he die before or after the death penalty law (by hanging) in his country?

But that's for another day, another forum.

Sunday
06-19-2012, 08:38 PM
I watched it, and I regret that the murder happened, but no, I don't regret watching it. That is just how my mind works. For me, discussing the case without seeing the video would be like discussing a book I had never read. My career in Pathology also tends to make me very clinical and I analyze the world from data. I understand and support other people for NOT watching it. I can't watch the kitten videos. I am not sure what that means, but it is the same reason I can work in a hospital but not in a Veterinary clinic.

I feel exactly the same way - can't watch the kitten videos! But years of working in hospitals and dissecting human body parts as a pre-med has enabled me to detach and view everything from a very clinical perspective. However, I would have had to FF through the murder had that been filmed.

jeanne
06-19-2012, 08:41 PM
Poor Gandhi. Did he die before or after the death penalty law (by hanging) in his country?

But that's for another day, another forum.

I have empathy right now for your lack of empathy. We will have to agree to disagree on this point.

JayFriend
06-19-2012, 08:42 PM
Justin Ling's latest article on today's court appearance:
From Xtra! Canada's Gay & Lesbian News:

Luka Magnotta pleads not guilty
Prosecutors will soon meet with Lin Jun's family
http://www.xtra.ca/public/National/Luka_Magnotta_pleads_not_guilty-12166.aspx

Highly suggested read.

I'm happy to share that Justin let me know that he will be covering this until the conclusion of the trial.
The prosecutors acknowledged that there will be some difficulty in finding a jury to sit through what is sure to be a gruesome trial, especially because it stands to drag through much of the summer, but said that these cases are “always hard.”I didn't know the justice system moves so quickly in Quebec. In Ontario we wouldn't expect a trial for at least three years.

CARIIS
06-19-2012, 08:43 PM
Poor Gandhi. Did he die before or after the death penalty law (by hanging) in his country?

But that's for another day, another forum.
Thats great!

LadyL
06-19-2012, 08:43 PM
This has been said before in an earlier thread, and my response now is the same as it was then. Luka Magnotta is not the product of modern problems or a sign that the world has gone to hell in a handbasket. There have been Lukas in every day and age. The Zodiac killer sent letters to the newspapers, Jack the Ripper taunted Scotland Yard with letters and parcels containing body parts of his victims. Albert Fish sent a letter to the mother of one of his victims detailing what he did to her child, and then there was that Holmes character who built an entire house of horrors in which to torture his victims.

This is the internet era so the modern incarnation of those named above posted it on a gore site. And the result? He was caught a week later. If you ask me the only difference between this day and age and times past is that its harder to get away with murder now than it used to be.

that doesn't invalidate the original post IMO

yeah, Luka is a modern incarnation of everything that is wrong with humanity ... just like others before him were an indication of what was wrong with society then

MOO

~n/t~
06-19-2012, 08:43 PM
I agree. Keeping some people alive does no good. Why should he get 3 squares and a bed every day when his victim does not have this? In prison he will be alive and breathing...something he deliberately took away from his victim. How is this just?

Some crimes are so heinous and horrible.....why should they be rewarded with the very thing they took away from someone in such a deranged way? What he did was beyond uncivilized....and yet keeping him alive serves what purpose?

I read about some of the sickest killers in history and some of them have been put to death already. In reading interviews with some of the families...they are not mourning them and wishing that they didn't get the death penalty for killing their loved one.
Sent from my SGH-T989 using Tapatalk 2

Yah but there are also those who had their little girls murdered by some sick perv who are now advocates for the death penalty......so I think I'll support the victims and their family rather than a murderer.

CARIIS
06-19-2012, 08:44 PM
Thats great!
AHHH was responding to
Originally Posted by jeanne
"An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind.

FootballMom
06-19-2012, 08:45 PM
I am not. I am for a more civilized society, not less.

I'm definitely pro-death penalty for murders & child molesters (too bad that can't happen) BUT only if they are mentally sane. Capital punishment for the mentally ill is certainly not justifiable under any circumstance.

It really does bother me that so many people do not understand that mental illness is as much a disease as cancer. One eats the mind & soul and the other the body but both can be catastrophic.

The same fear that engulfs a cancer patient can be ten-fold in the mind of a mentally ill person who spends their life with terror (internally & externally).

Some forms cancer cannot be cured... the same is true for some forms of mental illness. Some of each can be held at bay through medical science. Not all at so fortunate.

If you dare, read some blogs written by schizophrenics & bipolar I's living with psychosis. They are not as cut & dry as one may believe. Their spectrum is as vast as the universe and unimaginable for most but it can give one a glimpse into what life is like inside their minds.

I think LRM is one of those who cannot be cured. I think he passed the point of no return. I believe his illness has permanently damaged the ability of his brain to ever function enough to live in society even with medical intervention.

BorgQueen
06-19-2012, 08:46 PM
Lest we forget who the true victim is here.

http://images.ctv.ca/archives/CTVNews/img2/20120601/800_jun_lin_cp_120601.jpg

http://www.ctv.ca/CTVNews/Canada/20120601/french-police-magnotto-search-120601/

Just bumping this, before we all end up bumping each other :slapfight: :bigfight:

:Banane11:

Sealuzna
06-19-2012, 08:46 PM
I didn't know the justice system moves so quickly in Quebec. In Ontario we wouldn't expect a trial for at least three years.I hope you're not speaking for me when you say "we" in Ontario.

The criminal courts in Canada have been clear in the matter of the accused's right to a trial without unnecessary delay.

3 years was deemed excessive years ago.

~n/t~
06-19-2012, 08:47 PM
I have empathy right now for your lack of empathy. We will have to agree to disagree on this point.

Thanks but I don't need empathy. Save it for the victim's family. They need it more than me during this nightmare they're living every single day and for the rest of their lives.

LadyL
06-19-2012, 08:47 PM
So where were we? I see some posting wanting to hug the accused killer and it's giving me the heebie jeebies.

completely taken out of context IMO

x_files
06-19-2012, 08:47 PM
I'm not upset in the least. I don't empathize with killers. IMO, if he's got many empathizing, he achieved his goal.

Let's put him in a mental ward and declare him rehabilitated in a year or 2. Hey, if it worked for child killer Turcotte, it may work for Eric Newman. Or let's lock him up for a ummm let's say 12 years and send him to the Carribean like Homolka.

My empathy extends to him as a child before he turned to torturing animals, and murder. I do not want to see him released ever. At this point I believe he should receive the death penalty.
I wish we had all the details of his life story and DNA, and mental state ( I doubt we ever will). If psychopathy could be prevented, treated or cured then somebody better get busy, but he should never be released back into society-ever.

Sealuzna
06-19-2012, 08:49 PM
Yah but there are also those who had their little girls murdered by some sick perv who are now advocates for the death penalty......so I think I'll support the victims and their family rather than a murderer.

Link, please.

~n/t~
06-19-2012, 08:50 PM
I'm definitely pro-death penalty for murders & child molesters (too bad that can't happen) BUT only if they are mentally sane. Capital punishment for the mentally ill is certainly not justifiable under any circumstance.

It really does bother me that so many people do not understand that mental illness is as much a disease as cancer. One eats the mind & soul and the other the body but both can be catastrophic.

The same fear that engulfs a cancer patient can be ten-fold in the mind of a mentally ill person who spends their life with terror (internally & externally).

Some forms cancer cannot be cured... the same is true for some forms of mental illness. Some of each can be held at bay through medical science. Not all at so fortunate.

If you dare, read some blogs written by schizophrenics & bipolar I's living with psychosis. They are not as cut & dry as one may believe. Their spectrum is as vast as the universe and unimaginable for most but it can give one a glimpse into what life is like inside their minds.

I think LRM is one of those who cannot be cured. I think he passed the point of no return. I believe his illness has permanently damaged the ability of his brain to ever function enough to live in society even with medical intervention.

There's no evidence to suggest he's mentally ill. As with every murderer in this province (so far I know of 3), the defence requests psych evaluations sometimes the process lasts years. I posted a case earlier. It's been 3 years for a woman who killed her two daughters. She's free on bail until the psych evaluations are completed.

novaspy
06-19-2012, 08:51 PM
Whether you agree with the death penalty or life in prison with or without parole, I think we are all here because of our interest in the case. No one here, from what I can see, admires LRM. However, many of us are interested in understanding what drove him to commit this heinous act. There is really no point in arguing and making rude remarks towards each other, as I believe we all want justice for the victim and the victim's family. I can see both arguments, but in Canada there is no such thing as the death penalty. All we can hope is that the court sees LRM's premeditation in this case and complete understanding of what he had done (as evidenced by his online postings and fleeing the country).

Reannan
06-19-2012, 08:53 PM
I had a crippling bone disease as a child and had to wear a brace on my leg. I was made fun of and ostracized by all of the "cool kids". I think that is where my need to understand humanity comes from. Why would they treat me like that? What was wrong with THEM that made them try and make ME feel bad? I found the following story years ago, and I have it hanging in my office, over the brace that I wore as a child.

The Two Wolves
An old Cherokee chief was teaching his grandson about life.

"A fight is going on inside me," he said to the boy. "It is a terrible fight and it is between two wolves." "One is evil - he is anger, envy, sorrow, regret, greed, arrogance, self-pity, guilt, resentment, inferiority, lies, false pride, superiority, self-doubt, and ego." "The other is good - he is joy, peace, love, hope, serenity, humility, kindness, benevolence, empathy, generosity, truth, compassion, and faith." "This same fight is going on inside you - and inside every other person, too."

The grandson thought about it for a minute and then asked his grandfather, "Which wolf will win?"

The old chief simply replied, "Whichever one you feed."

jeanne
06-19-2012, 08:54 PM
Thanks but I don't need empathy. Save it for the victim's family. They need it more than me during this nightmare they're living every single day and for the rest of their lives.

A nightmare that will never be eased, even by Luka's death. Closure is a fancy term that to a grieving family holds no meaning. I understand your anger and your hatred, but killing Luka won't make it better for his family. They will go to their own graves with the horror of their son's tragic death engraved in their souls.

Rather than killing Luka, I will state AGAIN, that I would prefer to see him studied so that maybe, just maybe we can stop others like him before they become the monsters he has become, and to that end, we will see some good come of thise senseless death. I am not, in anyway, suggesting soft treatment for him and I really resent your attempts at belittling me, and others on this board for having empathy for the young Eric who became Luka.

"Sympathy is a feeling of care and understanding for suffering beings. Empathy is understood as the ability to mutually experience the thoughts, emotions, and direct experience of others without them being directly communicated intentionally."

LadyL
06-19-2012, 08:54 PM
I think i would have made a world of diff for LM (hug) , my god his families complete disassocation with this human takes my breath away. Gosh for 15 days your son brother aunt uncle (whatever family role) is the front page globally for doing horrid things -- NOT one has come "out" for lack of better word , even tried to say something, reached out , told him they cared NOTHING - now that is ALONE.

they said in the beginning that they were 'waiting by the phone' for him to call

back when Luka was hiding out in NY from the animal activists, he gave his mother's name & phone # to a lawyer as a contact person

if he really felt so abandoned by family, would he have done that?

I'm sure their family dynamics are very complicated but the family shouldn't be expected to expose themselves to a media storm and public scrutiny to show him they care - they either do or they don't and he would know that regardless

JMO

Sealuzna
06-19-2012, 08:54 PM
There's no evidence to suggest he's mentally ill. As with every murderer in this province (so far I know of 3), the defence requests psych evaluations sometimes the process lasts years. I posted a case earlier. It's been 3 years for a woman who killed her two daughters. She's free on bail until the psych evaluations are completed.Again, link please.