View Full Version : ARREST!!! Australia - Allison Baden-Clay, Brisbane QLD, 19 April 2012 -#25
willough
06-21-2012, 07:35 AM
Judy Moran - exactly my point gangsters moll.
So you chop and choose, who you decide is a gangster moll? You wanted examples of relatives who put on displays in courtrooms like what OW did today. I have provided you with two examples. If you choose to call one a gangster moll, over the others......then that is your choice. Either way, all people chosen have had relatives who were up for murder (OW inclided). I have no intention of trying to change your mind, just because the lady in question looks a little more savoury and sporty, than the two I mentioned....It is not my fault, if your eyes are deceiving you with a pretty pink scarf.
Petro
06-21-2012, 07:37 AM
I know nothing about the other one educate me, I can't be bothered googling.
UnfoldingTruth
06-21-2012, 07:38 AM
Just wanted to let everyone know that there was news reports online and video of the raid on BC father's car this evening but was removed from all media outlets approx 29minutes later or less.
Very suss, it could be by request of police in regards to 'media trial'
Oh..this is really interesting, thanks to you and Molly55, for posting.
Keentoknow
06-21-2012, 07:38 AM
:panic::goodpost::panic:
I have been reading this forum for some time now and just thought I should add some info as I am surprised it has not been written"I think"
At around 6pm this evening 5 detectives raided NBC home (search warrant I guess) searched his car and spent the best part of the hour inside the home.
I hope I am not doubling on this info already.
Makara
06-21-2012, 07:40 AM
Wow. If this is true, so coincidental that it was inacted the night of the interrupted bail hearing. This case just gets more and more cryptic every day.
Maybe the phone call re: a bomb has been traced to a particular number.
Just saying.
willough
06-21-2012, 07:40 AM
I believe OW is so on the edge and probably thought she was being asked to exit the proceedings (not be witness to them) for her to to say "I'm not going anywhere". I doubt OW would want to create a scene by disobeying court orders and placing a negative light on anyone. She probably had been told previously she was allowed to be there. I'd like to give her the benefit of doubt.
I'd hate to be in her shoes.
I agree MG.....Shee looked on the edge going in and looked on the edge sitting down. I feel even sending the emails was possibly an on the edge thing to do.
As a side note (and not directed at you MG)
I have an incredibly uneasy feeling of the lengths she is going to to "support" him. Some posts have displayed that this is very normal.....BUt I feel absolutely not. Many who state it fully normal behaviour, were those the other night....crying that this case now is "purely about Allison's children".....But dont bat an eyelid at the fact that while this support is going on...................................a lady has her children in Townsville....who have a mother on the edge who isnt there looking after them.
I dont think this is where Olivia needs to be........unless there is more to this than meets the eye..............AND I THINK THERE IS.
CaseClosed
06-21-2012, 07:42 AM
Channel 9 news said they handcuffed the prisoners to the bike racks
:floorlaugh::floorlaugh:
Makara
06-21-2012, 07:43 AM
Judy Moran - exactly my point gangsters moll.
So what are you saying Petro. Olivia Walton is a gangster's moll? Do you have a link for that?
Someone on another site who was at the hearing today sat very close to OW.
Her description of how OW appeared today was interesting. Apparently this person is going back for the hearing again tomorrow...
CaseClosed
06-21-2012, 07:47 AM
There are not too many amongst the accuseds supporters/family members who do not 'come out swinging', are there?
In fact, many families and supporters of convicted murderers are still yelling to anyone who'll listen that ' He's a good boy. He didn't do it. I know he couldn't have done it. He's going to appeal again. etc '
So the fact that an accused's family member is in complete denial and keen to be seen as such carries no weight with most people. It's commonplace
As to what she may have chosen to do -- time may yet force her to wish she'd done it
Blind faith and denial cannot repair damage done to one's reputation. But if only the 'swinging' individual him/herself stands to suffer then their prerogative
Doesn't the 'swinging' sibling have children to consider, though? Does she not have her spouse's livlihood to consider ?
Simply 'wanting' a certain resolution is absolutely NO guarantee one will get one's wishes granted
Deciding to ignore what the majority public has observed doesn't make fact disappear
Believing one is entitled to have the world march to one's own beat is a symptom of mental illness, imo
If I were guilty of serious crime, the LAST thing I would want would be to take my family and friends, associates etc. down with me. I wouldn't want them to risk on my behalf. Instead, I'd ask then tell them to go away, get on with their lives and if it all panned out well for me, then I'd see them some time in the future
MOO
Lindy Chamberlain fought for 32 year .... I don't think I need to say more.
Makara
06-21-2012, 07:48 AM
Actually her reaction in court is very Kath Pettingill and Judy Moran.....Another two ladies that refused to believe her relatives were criminals, and often degraded to such acts in the courtroom.
Nah, she's not that good at being bad.
itchybum
06-21-2012, 07:49 AM
I believe OW is so on the edge and probably thought she was being asked to exit the proceedings (not be witness to them) for her to to say "I'm not going anywhere". I doubt OW would want to create a scene by disobeying court orders and placing a negative light on anyone. She probably had been told previously she was allowed to be there. I'd like to give her the benefit of doubt.
I'd hate to be in her shoes.
There was no explanation given for the clearing of the court. As everyone left, OW stood in front of the public gallery (probably like the rest of us wondering what what going on). I don't think there was any big deal at all...
willough
06-21-2012, 07:50 AM
I know nothing about the other one educate me, I can't be bothered googling.
Gangster sons.....One accused of the Walsh street killings of two officers.
I try not to judge people on whether they are low socio/middle class and so forth. I have learnt from my husbands work as a police officer that it comes in all shades.
Another similarity with the three families is that all had a sense of entitlement. For different reasons. But what they wanted, they got....and it always involved money..
Makara
06-21-2012, 07:52 AM
Just wanted to let everyone know that there was news reports online and video of the raid on BC father's car this evening but was removed from all media outlets approx 29minutes later or less.
Very suss, it could be by request of police in regards to 'media trial'
Thanks Lovely. I feel another arrest coming on. :woohoo:
Fuskier
06-21-2012, 07:52 AM
Maybe the phone call re: a bomb has been traced to a particular number.
Just saying.
Funny that. Read post from Aberline_1979 re bomb scare at Supreme Court this afternoon:
ABERLINE_1979 Post no: 376
' ...So are we guessing (repeat: I said GUESSING!) that someone has phoned in a bomb threat?
I don't know about everyone else here, but that's what my logic would suggest. I'm not saying that it isn't just a coincidence that this "security threat" has occurred when it did...but really, what are the odds?
I wonder if the voice on the phone had a slight South African accent to it? Was there a female voice in the background? Did the call end with the sound of a garage door closing and an aging couple tongue-pashing?...'
Davita
06-21-2012, 07:53 AM
:floorlaugh::floorlaugh:
Oh really, I would have laughed if I saw that. Like in the olden days they tied the horses to poles. lmao. :rocker:
Keentoknow
06-21-2012, 07:57 AM
Thanks Lovely. I feel another arrest coming on. :woohoo:
look in your ball:floorlaugh:
alicat
06-21-2012, 07:58 AM
:banghead:In my opinion... if the public, the media, the police and the investigators saw right through him, how can his close family not see what we see? Perhaps it is hard for them to accept what is happening.
It can happen. It's called denial.
My brother has been a long term drug user. I can see it, my husband can see it and my friends see it. My parents however choose to deny it and state he's off the drugs. Then he comes home after an OD. I give my parents a hard time and 'oops, he's just slipped again. He was drugged.'
Some people just choose to ignore it for their sanity. I believe that's what my parents do.
willough
06-21-2012, 07:58 AM
Nah, she's not that good at being bad.
Awwwwww....But she wears the sunglasses as well. :floorlaugh:
Thinking
06-21-2012, 07:59 AM
Just wanted to let everyone know that there was news reports online and video of the raid on BC father's car this evening but was removed from all media outlets approx 29minutes later or less.
Very suss, it could be by request of police in regards to 'media trial'
I wonder if it was the BWANA car or the gold suzuki 4Wd GBC has been driving around.
Mothergoose
06-21-2012, 07:59 AM
I agree MG.....Shee looked on the edge going in and looked on the edge sitting down. I feel even sending the emails was possibly an on the edge thing to do.
As a side note (and not directed at you MG)
I have an incredibly uneasy feeling of the lengths she is going to to "support" him. Some posts have displayed that this is very normal.....BUt I feel absolutely not. Many who state it fully normal behaviour, were those the other night....crying that this case now is "purely about Allison's children".....But dont bat an eyelid at the fact that while this support is going on...................................a lady has her children in Townsville....who have a mother on the edge who isnt there looking after them.
I dont think this is where Olivia needs to be........unless there is more to this than meets the eye..............AND I THINK THERE IS.
In extraordinary circumstances people behave in extraordinary ways. Let's hope that none of us have to be tested in the way she has been. I agree her place and more importantly her desire IMO is to be with her husband and children. Her husband may have encouraged her to help her brother and assured her he could care for the children. It's a big call all round.
She would be going through the full gamete of emotions and would only be human if doubt was in the mix.What a horrific situation. IMO
itsthevibe
06-21-2012, 08:09 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by spratsmum I thought the exact opposite Mothergoose , I thought a lot of what was written today was quite understanding to the BC and empathetic. There was certainly a very different from posts a couple of weeks ago.
I think now that the suspicion has gone from Nigel Baden Clay posters are starting to feel for them as well as for Olivia.
As I said before every day someone else seems to be suffering from this murder and you feel for them all on some level. The Baden Clay's are elderly and have had an enormous stress put on them in the last weeks.
Olivia looks to me, like she is going to crack under the pressure. She has a young family and a husband who is a minister. I once had neighbour who's husband was a pastor and the amount of work she was required to do was extraordinary and she bore it all with good grace. I can imagine a lot is expected of Olivia on many fronts, her parents not being the least. I have always felt some sympathy for them, I found the business about the kiss quite wrong as I do now about the email. Many people on here are afraid to post because they a frightened by the criticism if they post an alternate view ( I have got a number of private messages that attest to that) but if you are strong enough and keep putting another idea out there, you will surprised how many people will agree with you.
I think regarding the BCs it is a somewhat difficult scenario in relation to empathy. It is almost a two pronged effort.
On one hand, if they had nothing to do with this crime, then how can one not feel for them. Although I feel their reaction to Allison's missing status and their reaction to her being dead was absolutely flatlined, I feel so very sorry their son has done this to their family.....I feel sorry that they are not seeing the girls because of his mistakes......I feel very sorry that they are being hounded by the media and even feel sorry for criticising them at times, including the "pash".
But on the other hand, if they were involved.....then PLUCK the lot of em.
Simple.......and I think that is why some who may have empathy for the family, dont display it. They are either waiting to hear what comes next.....As to whether there are 4 more bottles of beer on the wall, so to speak. Also I feel some just cannot get past the fact they were so unsupportive at the command post....I have a bad taste in my mouth about that too.
Willough I agree and thanks for illuminating this subject further. I have based my own views of what happened on a few things and a big part of that are the Police actions, reports and ultimate arresting of GBC. They have also alluded to more than one person involved in the murder or body disposal, and the 2 cars that were sighted implies that is the case. So for me I can't really see many alternatives in who the guilty parties might be, and I can't see that it is only one person involved. I questioned myself often in the early days but there's been a lot of time since then.
But - I still find myself feeling sorry for GBC - Yes, I looked at that photo of him in handcuffs in the car and I felt sick and I felt so terrible for him, like he was a child or someone who had a degree of innocence and vulnerability showing through and he was shattered and scared about how it has come to this. I also can relate to his sister and feel for his family to some extent in having their son and brother arrested for a horrible crime, and now having to navigate the court and jail system.
But then I feel guilty for feeling those feelings about him and his family, when I remember what Allison must have felt in her last moments of life, possibly a horror that is unimaginable. And I don't have a favourable view of people who hunt and kill animals for sport and personal glory, and display trophies of animal heads in pride of place in their homes. I consider these people have a different way of looking at the value of living things. I also don't have much time for pretentious people who do things like change their names to be associated with someone they consider to have more prestige than they themselves have. Not that it's a crime, but to me it's trying to be what you are not, and placing more of a value on image than other things of more substance.
Then, of course, there are the reactions of GBC and family to the Allisons disappearance and the discovery of her body, which I find hard to justify and really can't accept that everything can be explained away by saying "everyone is different and everyone reacts and handles things differently".
After todays opening comments at the bail hearing before everything went pear-shaped, and GBC's lawyer referring to some of the allegations being 'extraordinary' I do wonder if the murder and interference with the corpse involve something more confronting than a violent attack such as strangling and then the placing of the body under the bridge (as if that isnt bad enough).
I think some of these things are what holds people back from being empathetic to GBC or his family, because in the back of minds there is the feeling the case is worse than we expect and some of the family are involved. Even if the involvement is simply knowing it happened, it's hard to feel sympathy for anyone who said nothing and allowed the incredible waste of time and money and all of the associated stress and anxiety for so many people.
Thinking
06-21-2012, 08:10 AM
Just wanted to let everyone know that there was news reports online and video of the raid on BC father's car this evening but was removed from all media outlets approx 29minutes later or less.
Very suss, it could be by request of police in regards to 'media trial'
I wonder if they will report it at all - perhaps wait until after the bail hearing tomorrow? The timing is really bizarre.
Makara
06-21-2012, 08:11 AM
:banghead:
It can happen. It's called denial.
My brother has been a long term drug user. I can see it, my husband can see it and my friends see it. My parents however choose to deny it and state he's off the drugs. Then he comes home after an OD. I give my parents a hard time and 'oops, he's just slipped again. He was drugged.'
Some people just choose to ignore it for their sanity. I believe that's what my parents do.
Hugs to you alicat. That must be so hard for you and your family.
WhatIsTruth?
06-21-2012, 08:14 AM
I have been reading this forum for some time now and just thought I should add some info as I am surprised it has not been written"I think"
At around 6pm this evening 5 detectives raided NBC home (search warrant I guess) searched his car and spent the best part of the hour inside the home.
I hope I am not doubling on this info already.
And the plot thickens... can it thicken any more before it sets into concrete??? This is driving me crazy!
willough
06-21-2012, 08:16 AM
Willough I agree and thanks for illuminating this subject further. I have based my own views of what happened on a few things and a big part of that are the Police actions, reports and ultimate arresting of GBC. They have also alluded to more than one person involved in the murder or body disposal, and the 2 cars that were sighted implies that is the case. So for me I can't really see many alternatives in who the guilty parties might be, and I can't see that it is only one person involved. I questioned myself often in the early days but there's been a lot of time since then.
But - I still find myself feeling sorry for GBC - Yes, I looked at that photo of him in handcuffs in the car and I felt sick and I felt so terrible for him, like he was a child or someone who had a degree of innocence and vulnerability showing through and he was shattered and scared about how it has come to this. I also can relate to his sister and feel for his family to some extent in having their son and brother arrested for a horrible crime, and now having to navigate the court and jail system.
But then I feel guilty for feeling those feelings about him and his family, when I remember what Allison must have felt in her last moments of life, possibly a horror that is unimaginable. And I don't have a favourable view of people who hunt and kill animals for sport and personal glory, and display trophies of animal heads in pride of place in their homes. I consider these people have a different way of looking at the value of living things. I also don't have much time for pretentious people who do things like change their names to be associated with someone they consider to have more prestige than they themselves have. Not that it's a crime, but to me it's trying to be what you are not, and placing more of a value on image than other things of more substance.
Then, of course, there are the reactions of GBC and family to the Allisons disappearance and the discovery of her body, which I find hard to justify and really can't accept that everything can be explained away by saying "everyone is different and everyone reacts and handles things differently".
After todays opening comments at the bail hearing before everything went pear-shaped, and GBC's lawyer referring to some of the allegations being 'extraordinary' I do wonder if the murder and interference with the corpse involve something more confronting than a violent attack such as strangling and then the placing of the body under the bridge (as if that isnt bad enough).
I think some of these things are what holds people back from being empathetic to GBC or his family, because in the back of minds there is the feeling the case is worse than we expect and some of the family are involved. Even if the involvement is simply knowing it happened, it's hard to feel sympathy for anyone who said nothing and allowed the incredible waste of time and money and all of the associated stress and anxiety for so many people.
I agree with you too isthevibe......Spot on post :)
CaseClosed
06-21-2012, 08:16 AM
Is it full moon tonight? ... :truce: :banghead:
Blue Bottle
06-21-2012, 08:20 AM
:banghead:
It can happen. It's called denial.
My brother has been a long term drug user. I can see it, my husband can see it and my friends see it. My parents however choose to deny it and state he's off the drugs. Then he comes home after an OD. I give my parents a hard time and 'oops, he's just slipped again. He was drugged.'
Some people just choose to ignore it for their sanity. I believe that's what my parents do.
Yep... I totally agree with that... denial is a coping mechanism just as strong and as valid for some people as affirmation is to others.
We each have our own 'nightmare(s)' and something that doesn't seem to be such a big deal for one person, is for another.
angel1
06-21-2012, 08:23 AM
Does anyone know what this means please?
"An examination of it will demonstrate the weakness of the case against my client," he said.
CaseClosed
06-21-2012, 08:26 AM
Does anyone know what this means please?
"An examination of it will demonstrate the weakness of the case against my client," he said.
I gather the Barrister will come up with things refuting whatever the prosecution is basing their case on. But I'm not a lawyer.
possumheart
06-21-2012, 08:28 AM
Is it full moon tonight? ... :truce: :banghead:
New moon and a Thursday again, same as Allison's last night on Earth. However it is Winter Solstice tonight (shortest day) and Summer Solstice in the Northern Hemisphere, so it is a mega-natural time
angel1
06-21-2012, 08:29 AM
I gather the Barrister will come up with things refuting whatever the prosecution is basing their case on. But I'm not a lawyer.
Thankyou CaseClosed :)
grannie
06-21-2012, 08:29 AM
It's called unconditional love IMO, some would call it denial. I am not in her head and I don't know her but she seems like a very devoted sister a pretty nice person and passionate supporter to GBC's innocence to me. Pretty simple really IMO
Mothergoose, do you think it's possible for OW to worry about her own reputation, her husband's reputation and consequences for their religious enterprise? It's not that I don't believe in unconditional love and devotion.. I do, but I just fail to see the connection of all this to the family in question. The case has made international headlines. Townsville is a small town, where OW's family it somewhat in the centre of something. If GBC is convicted of murder, his sister will automatically become the sister of a murderer, and so on for other family members. Friends will go like autumn leaves.. So in my opinion, OW is fighting for herself and her family. JMO.
grannie
06-21-2012, 08:36 AM
Is it full moon tonight? ... :truce: :banghead:
Not yet, it's on the 4th of July.
New moon and a Thursday again, same as Allison's last night on Earth. However it is Winter Solstice tonight (shortest day) and Summer Solstice in the Northern Hemisphere, so it is a mega-natural time
Love the way you think possumheart :rocker:
UnfoldingTruth
06-21-2012, 08:39 AM
Does anyone know what this means please?
"An examination of it will demonstrate the weakness of the case against my client," he said.
Lawyer speak trying to get a client off charges or out on bail. I would take it with a grain of salt. I am not saying the accused is guilty, but that his lawyers are employed to defend him and so they will say- within reason what is necessary- then again maybe the case is weak against him. I am doubting that., because I really do not believe police would just arrest with out some substantial evidence. But his lawyers will do what they need to disprove it. it is their job.
MOO
willough
06-21-2012, 08:39 AM
I wonder if this news about NBCs car is true.....I cant stop thinking about it...
angel1
06-21-2012, 08:44 AM
Lawyer speak trying to get a client of charges or out on bail. I would take it with a grain of salt. I am not saying the accused is guilty, but that his lawyers are employed to defend him and so they will say- within reason what is necessary- then again maybe the case is weak against him. I am doubting that., because I really do not believe police would just arrest with out some substantial evidence. But his lawyers will do what they need to disprove it. it is their job.
MOO
Thankyou for that i understand it now :)
marlywings
06-21-2012, 08:44 AM
It could be that I have an unrealistic expectation of where we are at as a society these days. In some places in the world that I've been there is almost no law and order and what law they have seems almost barabric to me. Stoning women to death, genital mutilation of young girls and assasination of lawyers, judges and government officers seems to be accepted in some places. I've seen people laughing while they watch victims of mob violence bleed to death. And worse. I condemn that stuff from a position of thinking wecin this country are better, and when some idiot threatens violence at a court it feels like I am being hypocritical. It just seems to me that what this fool did today (assuming it was a considered act and not the result of a mental health issue) strikes right at the heart of our society and our decision to settle disputes nonviolently. We can't let our fundamental institutions be abused like that or we are no better than those other places I was referring to. End of rant.
I've not been to any of those barbaric countries you mention...have no desire at all to do so although I have seen plenty online, all of which I wish I hadn't seen....it's horrific stuff....like you, I condemn it....just as I condemn the barbaric murder of Allison.
Whatever happened at the courts today which delayed proceedings, I'm sure police will get to the bottom of it & whoever was responsible, probably some tosspot from the backblocks of nowhere, will face the consequences..... perhaps even in the same court building he/she/they disrupted.
In your previous post you said you were ashamed to be Australian today because of that. I wasn't ashamed to be an Australian today....I'm ashamed of the human species that allows these barbaric murders to happen in the first place.
What cheers me though is the fact there are all these good people, not only on this forum but countless other forums, of this same human species who continually speak out loud against these barbaric acts ....& that makes me damn proud to be an Aussie.
laserdisc10
06-21-2012, 08:45 AM
I wonder if this news about NBCs car is true.....I cant stop thinking about it...
Mmmmmm. Me too
Wondering also which 'family member' advised investigators that the accused's mental state was rapidly deteriorating (as has been claimed)
alicat
06-21-2012, 08:47 AM
Is there anything on Twitter about NBC? Mine isn't working atm.
UnfoldingTruth
06-21-2012, 08:48 AM
:banghead:
It can happen. It's called denial.
My brother has been a long term drug user. I can see it, my husband can see it and my friends see it. My parents however choose to deny it and state he's off the drugs. Then he comes home after an OD. I give my parents a hard time and 'oops, he's just slipped again. He was drugged.'
Some people just choose to ignore it for their sanity. I believe that's what my parents do.
Totally agree. It does happen. I can see how difficult it would be for a family in the situation the family of GBC, to come to grips with the thought he may have allegedly killed his wife. I do think it may be a case of their mind just can not go there. The mind is a very complex thing...
(now on the other alternative considering the info tonight of police raiding BC seniors..it could be that they are aware and unbelieveably involved...but not jumping to that conclusion yet- just looking at alternatives)
CaseClosed
06-21-2012, 08:50 AM
Channel 10 Late News - Police with sniffer dogs have cleared the Supreme Court building.
I gather nothing was found.
CaseClosed
06-21-2012, 08:52 AM
Is there anything on Twitter about NBC? Mine isn't working atm.
I can't see anything new since this afternoon Courts developments.
My logs are in lieu of sunflowers too. :D
Bahahahhahha - no not the logs, please not the logs! :what:
Hey Alicat you might be able to answer this.
Do you know if there is any flat land that goes down to the Kholo Creek with horses on it?
Do you know Wirrabara Road? Does that have any horses on it on the creek side?
We have missed you BTW.
Wozzle
06-21-2012, 08:57 AM
Willough I agree and thanks for illuminating this subject further. I have based my own views of what happened on a few things and a big part of that are the Police actions, reports and ultimate arresting of GBC. They have also alluded to more than one person involved in the murder or body disposal, and the 2 cars that were sighted implies that is the case. So for me I can't really see many alternatives in who the guilty parties might be, and I can't see that it is only one person involved. I questioned myself often in the early days but there's been a lot of time since then.
But - I still find myself feeling sorry for GBC - Yes, I looked at that photo of him in handcuffs in the car and I felt sick and I felt so terrible for him, like he was a child or someone who had a degree of innocence and vulnerability showing through and he was shattered and scared about how it has come to this. I also can relate to his sister and feel for his family to some extent in having their son and brother arrested for a horrible crime, and now having to navigate the court and jail system.
But then I feel guilty for feeling those feelings about him and his family, when I remember what Allison must have felt in her last moments of life, possibly a horror that is unimaginable. And I don't have a favourable view of people who hunt and kill animals for sport and personal glory, and display trophies of animal heads in pride of place in their homes. I consider these people have a different way of looking at the value of living things. I also don't have much time for pretentious people who do things like change their names to be associated with someone they consider to have more prestige than they themselves have. Not that it's a crime, but to me it's trying to be what you are not, and placing more of a value on image than other things of more substance.
Then, of course, there are the reactions of GBC and family to the Allisons disappearance and the discovery of her body, which I find hard to justify and really can't accept that everything can be explained away by saying "everyone is different and everyone reacts and handles things differently".
After todays opening comments at the bail hearing before everything went pear-shaped, and GBC's lawyer referring to some of the allegations being 'extraordinary' I do wonder if the murder and interference with the corpse involve something more confronting than a violent attack such as strangling and then the placing of the body under the bridge (as if that isnt bad enough).
I think some of these things are what holds people back from being empathetic to GBC or his family, because in the back of minds there is the feeling the case is worse than we expect and some of the family are involved. Even if the involvement is simply knowing it happened, it's hard to feel sympathy for anyone who said nothing and allowed the incredible waste of time and money and all of the associated stress and anxiety for so many people.
Itsthevibe: What a tremendous post! Common sense with compassion. And I too looked at that pic of GBC cuffed in the car and saw: terror, humiliation and pain. Who amongst us hasn't done something really rotten in their lives that they regret and think of over the years, wishing it had been different? Of course noone can condone killing, but much as I hope GBC experiences the full wrath of the law, I can't help but looking at him and thinking how absolutely horrendous it must be to be in his shoes. I also find myself thinking that if they're all guilty of either assisting with the 'deed' or at the very least knowing about it, and if they were not fond of Allison (or she of them) then it would have been so hypocritical of them to be bleating to the public in the media....as someone said: they're damned if they do, and damned if they don't. It's such a horrible tragedy (including for the BCs) but I feel the most for the SHEs (girls) - innocents who will have to carry this for the rest of their lives, whatever transpires from here on in.
I laughed along with you all to defuse the tension of what was 'going down' (I was imagining each of us grabbling one of Unfoldingtruth's koppers logs and marching on the courthouse in our avatar garb with placards nailed to our logs 'JUSTICE FOR ALLISON' etc. - as a group we could be 'The Koppers', rather than the 'coppers'!!)....and I felt nervous waiting for the hearing as if I was going to give a speech in court myself. I am a bit alarmed at feeling so 'involved' when I know none of the players, but as Hawkins and others have pointed out, we are a very giving and caring society, and often feel the pain of others, whether it be through death, floods, fire etc. etc. (Cynics might say we like to 'suffer' vicariously through others, but I don't subscribe to this view!) I was trying to explain the whole story to my husband this afternoon, and honestly, you couldn't write a book of fiction that is more convoluted. But I really think that we have to oust Occam's Razor and the KISS principle, because IMO it IS going to be ugly and complicated in the end. Why? Everything has already been said before but the police were NEVER looking elsewhere for the perpetrator/s and wouldn't make an arrest without being absolutely bloody sure....it's just too big a case not to have 'enough' before arresting. As to COD - if there was blood in the car as MSM have now told us, then that had to come from somewhere on Allison. If she was strangled or drowned in the bath = no blood, unless she happened to burst a few vessels and bled. Jungle drums and smoke signals have only mentioned these two possible CODs, so where would the blood have come from? I guess if she was stabbed there would have been a great deal of blood evidence, which I don't think is the case. I don't think we can completely dismiss the excision of the hands hypothesis - it's been bandied about a number of times. The SC in court today got as far as saying there had been outrageous claims about GBC. IMO this means that there IS something very ugly or unusual in the whole business. Whether this is premeditation, the collusion of many others, the excision of hands, strangling in the bath and redressing of the body, and even the most recent 'salacious rumour' ie a 'boyfriend' (which has been alluded to a few times before - yes, I've read EVERY post godammit!), IMO SOMETHING is bizarro here......and I'm going to go MAD if we don't find out soon. I'm nothing but a sloth at the moment....just as I was going to 'retire' from WS GBC was arrested!...so on we go! I'm supposed to be editing a book for my BIL, but instead of wondering who is going to play who in the 'movie version' (it's a REALLY good book!) I'm wondering who is going to play who in the movie 'Feet of Clay'!!! Thank you all for being such caring folk - any humour here is JUST diffusion, and I know you all care deeply for Allison and her family, particularly the girls. (Any mob of people gathered together for anything at all squabble and carry on don't they? Forums....families.....workplaces................. ..............
Mothergoose
06-21-2012, 08:57 AM
Mothergoose, do you think it's possible for OW to worry about her own reputation, her husband's reputation and consequences for their religious enterprise? It's not that I don't believe in unconditional love and devotion.. I do, but I just fail to see the connection of all this to the family in question. The case has made international headlines. Townsville is a small town, where OW's family it somewhat in the centre of something. If GBC is convicted of murder, his sister will automatically become the sister of a murderer, and so on for other family members. Friends will go like autumn leaves.. So in my opinion, OW is fighting for herself and her family. JMO.
Hi Grannie, Yes of course re the highlighted section I totally agree. I did say in an earlier post that she is a devoted daughter and sister as well.Though my comments have mainly been in response to comments about her loyalty being misplaced or unwarranted. Olivia has been by her brothers side from the very beginning (before his arrest). To me her support has been unwavering. As time has gone on her quest has probably shifted from ----I have to be here for Gerard. I love him and he didn't do this. to OMG they have arrested Gerard . How can they do that !! What will this do to his girls, mum, dad,the Dickies me and my family...I just have to do something.....this can't be happening !!!
By standing by him , she is putting herself on the firing line ,and if GBC is found guilty she will get more than her share flack. Imagine how this will affect her if she unquestionably thinks her brother is totally innocent. Yes she is fighting for her whole family ,and their reputation by standing by her brother. I don't doubt it for a minute. Some would call her extraordinary some would call her a fool. I think she is just doing the best she can under horrific circumstances and I wouldn't want to be in her shoes for anything. Sorry to ramble on. All Moo of course.
alicat
06-21-2012, 08:58 AM
Bahahahhahha - no not the logs, please not the logs! :what:
I clearly missed the logs thing. What thread was it all in, or did it go over a few? Thanks.
itsthevibe
06-21-2012, 09:01 AM
One other thing about posters on this site, there are a few people (quite a few really) whose opinions I respect and I am always glad when there names appear as thanks under my posts. Some of these people don't agree with some of my opinions, and I don't agree with all of there's, but I respect what they and am happy when they do the same to me. an example is the post before re the Baden Clay and Willough's response.
Hi spratsmum, I just came across this as I went back to try to read some of the pages i missed earlier tonight, and realised I also quoted your post recently, along with Willoughs response. I agree it's nice to have positive, fruitful discussions with people you respect, whether they totally agree with you or not. Despite the periodic stints of craziness around here, overall I think WS and this whole series of threads is amazing, as are so many of the people posting here. Love youse all!! umm, lol maybe not all ;)
Trooper
06-21-2012, 09:01 AM
Oddly, I saw nothing of Olivia when Gerards adultery came to the public notice.
Apparently thats ok... ??
Now he 'deserves the very best? '.........
alicat
06-21-2012, 09:03 AM
Hey Alicat you might be able to answer this.
Do you know if there is any flat land that goes down to the Kholo Creek with horses on it?
Do you know Wirrabara Road? Does that have any horses on it on the creek side?
We have missed you BTW.
Mmm I don't know... I personally haven't been down those roads before but I will take a drive tomorrow and let you know.
Thanks, I've been lurking but trying to catch up with all the posts! :)
laserdisc10
06-21-2012, 09:05 AM
Hi Grannie, Yes of course re the highlighted section I totally agree. I did say in an earlier post that she is a devoted daughter and sister as well.Though my comments have mainly been in response to comments about her loyalty being misplaced or unwarranted. Olivia has been by her brothers side from the very beginning (before his arrest). To me her support has been unwavering. As time has gone on her quest has probably shifted from ----I have to be here for Gerard. I love him and he didn't do this. to OMG they have arrested Gerard . How can they do that !! What will this do to his girls, mum, dad,the Dickies me and my family...I just have to do something.....this can't be happening !!!
By standing by him , she is putting herself on the firing line ,and if GBC is found guilty she will get more than her share flack. Imagine how this will affect her if she unquestionably thinks her brother is totally innocent. Yes she is fighting for her whole family ,and their reputation by standing by her brother. I don't doubt it for a minute. Some would call her extraordinary some would call her a fool. I think she is just doing the best she can under horrific circumstances and I wouldn't want to be in her shoes for anything. Sorry to ramble on. All Moo of course.
Appreciate all you've said and Thanked your post
There's the other side of the coin too, of course
There's a third sibling, a brother. He's remained out of the fray. He hasn't chosen to draw attention to himself
It may be and probably is, that he is working assiduously on GBC's behalf, but he's chosen to be discreet
OW could, had she chosen, have gone the same route and her privacy would have been respected, as is her and GBC's brother
She chose otherwise. She put herself in the spotlight
Wozzle
06-21-2012, 09:06 AM
Thanks Lovely. I feel another arrest coming on. :woohoo:
:what:What's that Makara? Are you sweaty and pale? Feel like there is a weight on your chest? Have pain radiating down your left arm? Have a sense of impending doom? I'll be right there!:bud::what:
Diagnosis::spinner: You're not having a heart attack pet, it's just this case...in this case! (But see your doctor if pain persists:hot:)
UnfoldingTruth
06-21-2012, 09:06 AM
Willough I agree and thanks for illuminating this subject further. I have based my own views of what happened on a few things and a big part of that are the Police actions, reports and ultimate arresting of GBC. They have also alluded to more than one person involved in the murder or body disposal, and the 2 cars that were sighted implies that is the case. So for me I can't really see many alternatives in who the guilty parties might be, and I can't see that it is only one person involved. I questioned myself often in the early days but there's been a lot of time since then.
But - I still find myself feeling sorry for GBC - Yes, I looked at that photo of him in handcuffs in the car and I felt sick and I felt so terrible for him, like he was a child or someone who had a degree of innocence and vulnerability showing through and he was shattered and scared about how it has come to this. I also can relate to his sister and feel for his family to some extent in having their son and brother arrested for a horrible crime, and now having to navigate the court and jail system.
But then I feel guilty for feeling those feelings about him and his family, when I remember what Allison must have felt in her last moments of life, possibly a horror that is unimaginable. And I don't have a favourable view of people who hunt and kill animals for sport and personal glory, and display trophies of animal heads in pride of place in their homes. I consider these people have a different way of looking at the value of living things. I also don't have much time for pretentious people who do things like change their names to be associated with someone they consider to have more prestige than they themselves have. Not that it's a crime, but to me it's trying to be what you are not, and placing more of a value on image than other things of more substance.
Then, of course, there are the reactions of GBC and family to the Allisons disappearance and the discovery of her body, which I find hard to justify and really can't accept that everything can be explained away by saying "everyone is different and everyone reacts and handles things differently".
After todays opening comments at the bail hearing before everything went pear-shaped, and GBC's lawyer referring to some of the allegations being 'extraordinary' I do wonder if the murder and interference with the corpse involve something more confronting than a violent attack such as strangling and then the placing of the body under the bridge (as if that isnt bad enough).
I think some of these things are what holds people back from being empathetic to GBC or his family, because in the back of minds there is the feeling the case is worse than we expect and some of the family are involved. Even if the involvement is simply knowing it happened, it's hard to feel sympathy for anyone who said nothing and allowed the incredible waste of time and money and all of the associated stress and anxiety for so many people.
Thank you for your honest and well written post. I have also felt some sadness for him(and everyone affected) in the situation you mentioned. I did not want to post here as I was concerned it may come across 'wrong'- I am not as good at writing these things.. Don't get me wrong IF he is indeed guilty of this crime, and I am wondering what horrifying information is going to come out in evidence. It does not forgive or condone that at all. I could see what you saw the shattered, shell shocked feeling.. I think there is sadness for the situation as a whole that ended up this way and has split apart so many lives. (Was it an escalation of an argument that caused her death, was it more?.. ) And certainly none of this takes away from what happened to Allison or how it has ripped apart the lives of those she loved. And I find it hard to accept an escalation situation and then go to the lengths of disposing of body and all the rest, though I do realize sometimes people get into a situation and see no other way out.... Anyway in short before I waffle more, thanks for your well written and thought out post.
CaseClosed
06-21-2012, 09:08 AM
I have decided I will not discuss OW anymore. She has not been named a POI, arrested or charged with anything! She is a sister supporting a sibling who is innocent until proven guilty.
UnfoldingTruth
06-21-2012, 09:10 AM
I clearly missed the logs thing. What thread was it all in, or did it go over a few? Thanks.
lol, probably better you missed it.. Not sure which thread, but some posters were not aware what exactly Koppers Logs were..some of us took the time to enlighten them..:D.. Now many websleuthers can extoll the virtues of the humble Koppers Log. lol
willough
06-21-2012, 09:12 AM
Appreciate all you've said and Thanked your post
There's the other side of the coin too, of course
There's a third sibling, a brother. He's remained out of the fray. He hasn't chosen to draw attention to himself
It may be and probably is, that he is working assiduously on GBC's behalf, but he's chosen to be discreet
OW could, had she chosen, have gone the same route and her privacy would have been respected, as is her and GBC's brother
She chose otherwise. She put herself in the spotlight
I agree......and with so much on the line, like what grannie and mothergoose have mentioned (which I do agree with them)......WHY? Why is she allowing her family (hubby and little ones), her world be involved in this, when she could have pulled away?........................................I do not feel that him being her brother is the reason why..............There must be a reason she would put so much on the line.
linette
06-21-2012, 09:14 AM
I agree......and with so much on the line, like what grannie and mothergoose have mentioned (which I do agree with them)......WHY? Why is she allowing her family (hubby and little ones), her world be involved in this, when she could have pulled away?........................................I do not feel that him being her brother is the reason why..............There must be a reason she would put so much on the line.
Do you mean maybe she is involved in whatever might go down if exposed? ... or something like that? Or because she can't stand the family name being dragged through the mud when they are so involved in the church?
laserdisc10
06-21-2012, 09:17 AM
I agree......and with so much on the line, like what grannie and mothergoose have mentioned (which I do agree with them)......WHY? Why is she allowing her family (hubby and little ones), her world be involved in this, when she could have pulled away?........................................I do not feel that him being her brother is the reason why..............There must be a reason she would put so much on the line.
As well, I don't consider her a plus from GBC's perspective. It's possible GBC's legal reps consider her more of a hindrance
Maybe she just enjoys the limelight? Maybe she's accustomed to having a great deal of control?
The Dickies and the third BC sibling understand that the media will exploit and then burn. So maybe that's a life-lessons OW and spouse are destined to learn ?
Blue Bottle
06-21-2012, 09:17 AM
Appreciate all you've said and Thanked your post
There's the other side of the coin too, of course
There's a third sibling, a brother. He's remained out of the fray. He hasn't chosen to draw attention to himself
It may be and probably is, that he is working assiduously on GBC's behalf, but he's chosen to be discreet
OW could, had she chosen, have gone the same route and her privacy would have been respected, as is her and GBC's brother
She chose otherwise. She put herself in the spotlight
I may be wrong about this. Hard to keep up with all the information of who is who and who does what or lives where... but....
I think it would be much harder for the other brother because to what I understand he lives in Canada and went back home after Allison's funeral. Not like he can just pop in and out from home within reason and without high travelling costs involved.
?
UnfoldingTruth
06-21-2012, 09:19 AM
Itsthevibe: What a tremendous post! Common sense with compassion. And I too looked at that pic of GBC cuffed in the car and saw: terror, humiliation and pain. Who amongst us hasn't done something really rotten in their lives that they regret and think of over the years, wishing it had been different? Of course noone can condone killing, but much as I hope GBC experiences the full wrath of the law, I can't help but looking at him and thinking how absolutely horrendous it must be to be in his shoes. I also find myself thinking that if they're all guilty of either assisting with the 'deed' or at the very least knowing about it, and if they were not fond of Allison (or she of them) then it would have been so hypocritical of them to be bleating to the public in the media....as someone said: they're damned if they do, and damned if they don't. It's such a horrible tragedy (including for the BCs) but I feel the most for the SHEs (girls) - innocents who will have to carry this for the rest of their lives, whatever transpires from here on in.
I laughed along with you all to defuse the tension of what was 'going down' (I was imagining each of us grabbling one of Unfoldingtruth's koppers logs and marching on the courthouse in our avatar garb with placards nailed to our logs 'JUSTICE FOR ALLISON' etc. - as a group we could be 'The Koppers', rather than the 'coppers'!!)....and I felt nervous waiting for the hearing as if I was going to give a speech in court myself. I am a bit alarmed at feeling so 'involved' when I know none of the players, but as Hawkins and others have pointed out, we are a very giving and caring society, and often feel the pain of others, whether it be through death, floods, fire etc. etc. (Cynics might say we like to 'suffer' vicariously through others, but I don't subscribe to this view!) I was trying to explain the whole story to my husband this afternoon, and honestly, you couldn't write a book of fiction that is more convoluted. But I really think that we have to oust Occam's Razor and the KISS principle, because IMO it IS going to be ugly and complicated in the end. Why? Everything has already been said before but the police were NEVER looking elsewhere for the perpetrator/s and wouldn't make an arrest without being absolutely bloody sure....it's just too big a case not to have 'enough' before arresting. As to COD - if there was blood in the car as MSM have now told us, then that had to come from somewhere on Allison. If she was strangled or drowned in the bath = no blood, unless she happened to burst a few vessels and bled. Jungle drums and smoke signals have only mentioned these two possible CODs, so where would the blood have come from? I guess if she was stabbed there would have been a great deal of blood evidence, which I don't think is the case. I don't think we can completely dismiss the excision of the hands hypothesis - it's been bandied about a number of times. The SC in court today got as far as saying there had been outrageous claims about GBC. IMO this means that there IS something very ugly or unusual in the whole business. Whether this is premeditation, the collusion of many others, the excision of hands, strangling in the bath and redressing of the body, and even the most recent 'salacious rumour' ie a 'boyfriend' (which has been alluded to a few times before - yes, I've read EVERY post godammit!), IMO SOMETHING is bizarro here......and I'm going to go MAD if we don't find out soon. I'm nothing but a sloth at the moment....just as I was going to 'retire' from WS GBC was arrested!...so on we go! I'm supposed to be editing a book for my BIL, but instead of wondering who is going to play who in the 'movie version' (it's a REALLY good book!) I'm wondering who is going to play who in the movie 'Feet of Clay'!!! Thank you all for being such caring folk - any humour here is JUST diffusion, and I know you all care deeply for Allison and her family, particularly the girls. (Any mob of people gathered together for anything at all squabble and carry on don't they? Forums....families.....workplaces................. ..............
:goodpost:.. I too was taking a break and a step back, retiring.. when the arrest happened too.. I think sometimes I need to just do that.. I feel sometimes I should be concentrating on other things in my life, lol. But it is hard to not check back.. by the way..I do have plenty of logs to go around. ;)
mum73
06-21-2012, 09:19 AM
lol, probably better you missed it.. Not sure which thread, but some posters were not aware what exactly Koppers Logs were..some of us took the time to enlighten them..:D.. Now many websleuthers can extoll the virtues of the humble Koppers Log. lol
I feel a little guilty in the whole Koppers Log situation...I suggested it may have been a Koppers Log that GBC had hit in the 4WD. I thought that was what they were all called, but I have since learnt (thanks to Websleuthers...) that Koppers is just a brand...along with all the other info I now know about these fascinating logs...
laserdisc10
06-21-2012, 09:21 AM
I may be wrong about this. Hard to keep up with all the information of who is who and who does what or lives where... but....
I think it would be much harder for the other brother because to what I understand he lives in Canada and went back home after Allison's funeral. Not like he can just pop in and out from home within reason and without high travelling costs involved.
?
That's a point. Although I've heard it rumoured that he's been back since, which of course could well be just another rumour. Maybe he's fighting GBC's corner via forums ?
Trooper
06-21-2012, 09:21 AM
OLiva has been cleaning up Gerards messes forever, obviously.. if Nige and Elaine knew and they most certainly did about Ms McHugh, so did Olivia.. complicit in keeping that from Allison. When Toni McHugh was fired , when Allison eventualy did find out about it,, it went on , certainly Nige and Elaine knew about that too, and it stands to reason Olivia did.
and if Olivia knew about this, so did the Pastor.
Not what I would call exactly a friendly environment for Allison. hard hard times.
Trooper
06-21-2012, 09:23 AM
When the Dickies come out and say, well. Olivia is just peachy, and so is Nige, and Elaine, and by golly, Gerard, well... he had his faults, but ..
Until then.. as far as I can see, they made Allisons life hell. the whole lot of them. They stay on my black list.
laserdisc10
06-21-2012, 09:23 AM
OLiva has been cleaning up Gerards messes forever, obviously.. if Nige and Elaine knew and they most certainly did about Ms McHugh, so did Olivia.. complicit in keeping that from Allison. When Toni McHugh was fired , when Allison eventualy did find out about it,, it went on , certainly Nige and Elaine knew about that too, and it stands to reason Olivia did.
and if Olivia knew about this, so did the Pastor.
Not what I would call exactly a friendly environment for Allison. hard hard times.
Yes and thanks for focusing sympathy where it rightly belongs, imo
willough
06-21-2012, 09:24 AM
Do you mean maybe she is involved in whatever might go down if exposed? ... or something like that? Or because she can't stand the family name being dragged through the mud when they are so involved in the church?
Her presence will have no bearing on the outcome for her brother. He either did it or didnt. Being there, not being there bares no relevance, unless she knows more or possibly was involved (just like everyone, I havent a clue).
She can stand by, or walk away.....Either way will not change the evidence the police have. It will not undo what has happened. Her support of him will be hurting her life at home. The parish must know she is supporting a suspected murderer.
This is her choice. How one handles themselves is ones choice. She choice to behave the way she did infront of the media. She chose to cause issue in court.
I feel there is more to her here.
laserdisc10
06-21-2012, 09:24 AM
When the Dickies come out and say, well. Olivia is just peachy, and so is Nige, and Elaine, and by golly, Gerard, well... he had his faults, but ..
Until then.. as far as I can see, they made Allisons life hell. the whole lot of them. They stay on my black list.
Mine too
If the siblings weren't so photogenic, others would be agreeing also imo
Mothergoose
06-21-2012, 09:25 AM
Appreciate all you've said and Thanked your post
There's the other side of the coin too, of course
There's a third sibling, a brother. He's remained out of the fray. He hasn't chosen to draw attention to himself
It may be and probably is, that he is working assiduously on GBC's behalf, but he's chosen to be discreet
OW could, had she chosen, have gone the same route and her privacy would have been respected, as is her and GBC's brother
She chose otherwise. She put herself in the spotlight
I would suggest the following:- When Allison was declared missing the family closed ranks. Realising there would be media interest from the immediate police response on day one.
Apart from many , many other things that were allegedly discussed the decision on who would front the media on behalf of the family, may have been decided. OW may have more experience addressing groups of people where as the other brother may be shy and less able to do so. MOO On the other had she may have just been overwhelmed by it all and fell into the protective mode. As I don't know her this is just what I think may have happened. I felt she was very genuine in her concern for Allison when she fronted the media initially and she has probably been swept away by it all in an emotional sense ,and logic , re her at home needs have become secondary , if she is content they are being well cared for.. MOO and MOO That's all I want to say about OW..no offence intended.
marlywings
06-21-2012, 09:26 AM
As well, I don't consider her a plus from GBC's perspective. It's possible GBC's legal reps consider her more of a hindrance
Maybe she just enjoys the limelight? Maybe she's accustomed to having a great deal of control?
The Dickies and the third BC sibling understand that the media will exploit and then burn. So maybe that's a life-lessons OW and spouse are destined to learn ?
It wouldn't at all surprise me if at some stage down the track she does the old 60mins interview...to add $$$s to the coffer.
laserdisc10
06-21-2012, 09:26 AM
Her presence will have no bearing on the outcome for her brother. He either did it or didnt. Being there, not being there bares no relevance, unless she knows more or possibly was involved (just like everyone, I havent a clue).
She can stand by, or walk away.....Either way will not change the evidence the police have. It will not undo what has happened. Her support of him will be hurting her life at home. The parish must know she is supporting a suspected murderer.
This is her choice. How one handles themselves is ones choice. She choice to behave the way she did infront of the media. She chose to cause issue in court.
I feel there is more to her here.
:goodpost:
Trooper
06-21-2012, 09:26 AM
It is interesting that the charge of 'interfering with the corpse' takes place at the Kholo bridge.. specifically at the Kholo bridge
maybe Gerard had to scramble back home, and get walking gear for the body, once a story had been created, undress her , dress her in the walking gear and scramble back home again.
Makara
06-21-2012, 09:28 AM
I've not been to any of those barbaric countries you mention...have no desire at all to do so although I have seen plenty online, all of which I wish I hadn't seen....it's horrific stuff....like you, I condemn it....just as I condemn the barbaric murder of Allison.
Whatever happened at the courts today which delayed proceedings, I'm sure police will get to the bottom of it & whoever was responsible, probably some tosspot from the backblocks of nowhere, will face the consequences..... perhaps even in the same court building he/she/they disrupted.
In your previous post you said you were ashamed to be Australian today because of that. I wasn't ashamed to be an Australian today....I'm ashamed of the human species that allows these barbaric murders to happen in the first place.
What cheers me though is the fact there are all these good people, not only on this forum but countless other forums, of this same human species who continually speak out loud against these barbaric acts ....& that makes me damn proud to be an Aussie.
BBM: I'm right there with you Marly. I refuse to be ashamed of being an Australian! If certain (so callled) Aussies choose to be obnoxious, cruel, barbaric etc. IMO, it doesn't reflect on Australia as a nation or it's people. These people are in the minitory and should be dealt with according to our law.
laserdisc10
06-21-2012, 09:28 AM
It wouldn't at all surprise me if at some stage down the track she does the old 60mins interview...to add $$$s to the coffer.
Well now you mention it ....
Maybe a barter-type deal for legal representation ?
' And there's talk of a mini-series, tv doco and book deal too, so if you could just hold off a bit with the bills ... '
All just my fanciful imagination based on other criminal cases I've observed. And of course, MOO and allegedly
willough
06-21-2012, 09:31 AM
I agree marly and makara......My family are french....Though I was born here and have never been to France. I consider myself Australian and even my family do. I will not be ashamed of being Australian just because some few silly noodles choose to go against the Australian way.
UnfoldingTruth
06-21-2012, 09:32 AM
I feel a little guilty in the whole Koppers Log situation...I suggested it may have been a Koppers Log that GBC had hit in the 4WD. I thought that was what they were all called, but I have since learnt (thanks to Websleuthers...) that Koppers is just a brand...along with all the other info I now know about these fascinating logs...
Actually I believe Koppers is both a brand and THE brand. The original and most are I believe 'Koppers Logs'.. from the website.'Koppers has established an enviable reputation for quality treated wood products in Australia. Our products are well known and our brand name is synonymous with treated wood.'
Lol, I am sorry, there I go again.. perhaps I could be PR for the company..:blushing:
Blue Bottle
06-21-2012, 09:32 AM
I just had a thought... a dangerous happening my family reckons whan that happens to me.
Was wondering if during the trial, not only will Gerard's dirty washing be dragged into it (as has already been done), but am wondering if attempts will be made to pull apart and bring up issues about Allison we may not know about.
laserdisc10
06-21-2012, 09:34 AM
It wouldn't at all surprise me if at some stage down the track she does the old 60mins interview...to add $$$s to the coffer.
Maybe that's why it's so important to be photographed and filmed in attendance at the court ? Legitimises any first-hand/personal accounts or ghost-written versions of events, later on
willough
06-21-2012, 09:36 AM
Maybe that's why it's so important to be photographed and filmed in attendance at the court ? Legitimises any first-hand/personal accounts or ghost-written versions of events, later on
She would need to clear a few things up that wont be nice on camera though....Like "Gerard loves Allison"...."She was delightful". and so forth.
laserdisc10
06-21-2012, 09:36 AM
I just had a thought... a dangerous happening my family reckons whan that happens to me.
Was wondering if during the trial, not only will Gerard's dirty washing be dragged into it (as has already been done), but am wondering if attempts will be made to pull apart and bring up issues about Allison we may not know about.
Remains to be seen
They'll have their work cut out for them trying to blacken a murdered woman's reputation. The public will not be receptive. I certainly will not. Allison is not here to defend herself
A wise lawyer would resist the temptation
Trooper
06-21-2012, 09:37 AM
I just had a thought... a dangerous happening my family reckons whan that happens to me.
Was wondering if during the trial, not only will Gerard's dirty washing be dragged into it (as has already been done), but am wondering if attempts will be made to pull apart and bring up issues about Allison we may not know about.
There wouldnt be any point in doing that, unless he is defending his killing of her.
No point in making out that Gerard has a reason to kill Allison. In fact, let that be Gerards cross to bear.. he has to maintain that she was an 'angel'.. why would he kill her?
Trooper
06-21-2012, 09:38 AM
if his story is he didnt kill her.. its now his lifetime job to portray Allison as without fault.
Otherwise his story, yet again, goes to shite.
Susan12
06-21-2012, 09:39 AM
I guess another option is if the defense only just heard some of the allegations against GBC as part of the prosecutions reasons for not allowing bail (??) someone might arrange a bomb threat to get it adjourned for more time to prepare counterargumetns?
Options for motive behind bomb threat:
1. Total nutter with no other purpose in mind other than to cause trouble - no actual bomb
2. Real bomb threat by persons unknown
3. Stunt by someone favouring GBC to try to show that he can't receive a fair trial - no bomb just an attempt to influence ultimately getting him off
4. Stunt by someone believing in GBC's guilt, to try to show that to release him on bail would be a danger to him and the public - no bomb just an attempt to ensure he stays in jail
5. Stunt by someone with an interest in ensuring the public are not allowed to be present at the bail hearing, or possibly any other hearing for that matter - as a way of ensuring the public hear very little of the facts of the case - wanting to prevent any chances of the prosecution case being ruined by accusations of trial by media and social media
6. Stunt by someone with an interest in ensuring the public are not allowed to be present at the bail hearing, or possibly any other hearing for that matter - as a way of ensuring the public hear very little additional facts of the case - someone involved who doesn't want the public to know how bad it was and what actually happened, which could be worse than we imagined
What do you think?
Cccclllaareb
06-21-2012, 09:42 AM
Actually I believe Koppers is both a brand and THE brand. The original and most are I believe 'Koppers Logs'.. from the website.'Koppers has established an enviable reputation for quality treated wood products in Australia. Our products are well known and our brand name is synonymous with treated wood.'
Lol, I am sorry, there I go again.. perhaps I could be PR for the company..:blushing:
The face of Koppers logs! That's you.
Limaes
06-21-2012, 09:42 AM
I just had a thought... a dangerous happening my family reckons whan that happens to me.
Was wondering if during the trial, not only will Gerard's dirty washing be dragged into it (as has already been done), but am wondering if attempts will be made to pull apart and bring up issues about Allison we may not know about.
I hope they don't go down that road and put the victim on trial. It's not something a grieving husband would do and it wouldn't endear him to a jury. But then he has never really played the part of a grieving husband. Regardless of what was written about him being a POI at the start, can't blame the Police or media for his lack of actions in finding his wife. He should have joined forces with them imo.
Personally, I feel he will continue to proclaim innocence and never offer a reason as to why.
laserdisc10
06-21-2012, 09:42 AM
She would need to clear a few things up that wont be nice on camera though....Like "Gerard loves Allison"...."She was delightful". and so forth.
And let us not forget the big bottom lip once GBC was no longer in receipt of public sympathy as the grieving spouse awaiting his 'missing' wife to be 'returned to him'
such as the bolting by sis across neighbour's lawns and down their side alley in order, reportedly, to pick up bro who was waiting round the corner. To me that looked like something someone with arrested development would do
Then when the media approached sis as she was returning home, her arms laden with newspapers and we saw a woman who can shift gears in a second, from sulky-looking, 'oh no, not them again' to 'concerned sister in law' speaking in that pastor's-wife voice (which I personally find incredibly annoying and condescending. But then I'm not amongst the worshipful congregation)
All my personal opinion
laserdisc10
06-21-2012, 09:47 AM
if his story is he didnt kill her.. its now his lifetime job to portray Allison as without fault.
Otherwise his story, yet again, goes to shite.
If he intends to have any sort of relationship with his three daughters, he'd better not ever speak badly of their mother, in court or out
Seeking
06-21-2012, 09:47 AM
OW Lives in Townsville and could possibly have been totally out of the loop re goings on in GBC's life. He's he brother she loves him and the brother she knows and loves ,could never have done this------no way!! It's called unconditional love IMO, some would call it denial. I am not in her head and I don't know her but she seems like a very devoted sister a pretty nice person and passionate supporter to GBC's innocence to me. Pretty simple really IMO
I can fully understand OW fully supporting her brother if she genuinely believes he is innocent. It is quite possible that she feels the responsibility of being the primary support person for her brother even to protect her parents who (if they are not involved) may be in deep stress/ grief and confusions and this could all be potentially compounded by the possibility of age related health issues. The other brother lives overseas and is less able to help.
It is an incredibly difficult position for OW to be in and probably a lot for her to process and comprehend especially if she is innocent of any involvement or knowledge of what happened. I believe it is right for her to support her brother and her parents. GBC is entitled to a fair trial. Helping her brother through the various trials that will follow will either confirm in her mind his innocence, or help her to comprehend and accept his guilt if he in fact is guilty. I can fully understand her wanting to support her family. That is quite normal. We really don't know what has gone on behind the scenes in terms of relationships between various sides of the family even prior to this horrid crime, or even whether OW has asked GBC directly whether he was involved in Allison's demise or not. We just don't know those things. Perhaps OW has wrestled with herself about whether to help GBC or not and decided that this is the best way forward. Again we don't know.
The person my husband and I supported through a court case we actually had conversations with encouraging him that if he was guilty to just confess. But you have to be careful in these conversations to not discourage and disbelief a person, who if they are indeed innocent of what they have been charged with, is quite likely to be in a significant state of stress and anxiety and disbelief themselves about the situation that they find themselves in. If he said that he was guilty we would have still supported him through the process which in no way would have condoned what he was said to have done. We would have been supporting him not to try and get him off but to deal positively and constructively with what he was faced with.
To support this person through this court case was an incredible demand on my family and also for my husband and I personally. It was a logistical nightmare with our children. But it was something that my husband and I knew that we had to do and we don't regret our support of that person. It took us a long time to get over it. So I do really feel for the Walton's at this time especially if they have absolutely no involvement in this horrid crime. They have been through a lot and it is not likely to be over for some time. If OW genuinely believes that GBC is innocent I believe that she is displaying great courage in supporting him especially given what seems to be public perception of the case and GBC's involvement. Obviously if she is in any way involved or covering up for the family the scenario is quite different.
These are all just my humble opinions as we wait for justice to unfold for Allison.
Limaes
06-21-2012, 09:47 AM
And let us not forget the big bottom lip once GBC was no longer in receipt of public sympathy as the grieving spouse awaiting his 'missing' wife to be 'returned to him'
such as the bolting by sis across neighbour's lawns and down their side alley in order, reportedly, to pick up bro who was waiting round the corner. To me that looked like something someone with arrested development would do
Then when the media approached sis as she was returning home, her arms laden with newspapers and we saw a woman who can shift gears in a second, from sulky-looking, 'oh no, not them again' to 'concerned sister in law' speaking in that pastor's-wife voice (which I personally find incredibly annoying and condescending. But then I'm not amongst the worshipful congregation)
All my personal opinion
That was...strange!
Trooper
06-21-2012, 09:49 AM
What we may hear is witnesses who speak of what Gerard said to them about Allison. .
That wont be pretty, I am sure of it.
His whole line pre murder has to be Allisons not understanding him... so original, too.
UnfoldingTruth
06-21-2012, 09:49 AM
There was no explanation given for the clearing of the court. As everyone left, OW stood in front of the public gallery (probably like the rest of us wondering what what going on). I don't think there was any big deal at all...
I did wonder if it was not really known by those in there why they were being told to leave. And that may account for OW reaction.
Now, I didn't really expect GBC's lawyer (Peter Davis, SC) to say in his opening remarks that the Crown has a very sound case and a strong likelihood of success at trial, but...
...prior to the bomb threat, he did say that the allegations were "extraordinary" (I think) and that the Crown had a "weak case".
Before the security scare, Mr Davis had been responding to a police affidavit which detailed why the prosecution said Baden-Clay should not be granted bail.
"An examination of it will demonstrate the weakness of the case against my client," he said.
"(And) the extraordinary nature of some of the allegations being made."
Read more: http://www.news.com.au/national/security-threat-at-baden-clays-bail-hearing/story-e6frfkvr-1226403669080#ixzz1yR22aL16
I understand the defense attorney will try to put the evidence in the poorest light possible, but for a highly respected lawyer to describe the evidence as "weak", when that evidence is going to come out in the course of that very same hearing, surely means the case against GBC is not water-tight.
grannie
06-21-2012, 09:51 AM
Maybe she just enjoys the limelight? Maybe she's accustomed to having a great deal of control?
In my opinion, she is not enjoying the limelight at all. Not that limelight. She looks very stressed. Her husband and herself have been a moral amplificateur in society until recently. Now they are at risk to lose this status. JMO.
marlywings
06-21-2012, 09:51 AM
Thanks Makara & Willough...I realllly had my cranky pants on back there for a while...lol.
Makara
06-21-2012, 09:51 AM
Wozzle,
thank you, I thoroughly enjoy your posts. I don't agree with everything you say, mainly because my thinking and logic are more black and white. There are no shades of grey in my thoughts on Allison's murder.
BBM: Below. Feet of Clay IMO is an excellent title for a book and perhaps a movie down the track. Although I hate to think of Allison's daughters either reading or sitting down to watch either in years to come.
Itsthevibe: What a tremendous post! Common sense with compassion. And I too looked at that pic of GBC cuffed in the car and saw: terror, humiliation and pain. Who amongst us hasn't done something really rotten in their lives that they regret and think of over the years, wishing it had been different? Of course noone can condone killing, but much as I hope GBC experiences the full wrath of the law, I can't help but looking at him and thinking how absolutely horrendous it must be to be in his shoes. I also find myself thinking that if they're all guilty of either assisting with the 'deed' or at the very least knowing about it, and if they were not fond of Allison (or she of them) then it would have been so hypocritical of them to be bleating to the public in the media....as someone said: they're damned if they do, and damned if they don't. It's such a horrible tragedy (including for the BCs) but I feel the most for the SHEs (girls) - innocents who will have to carry this for the rest of their lives, whatever transpires from here on in.
I laughed along with you all to defuse the tension of what was 'going down' (I was imagining each of us grabbling one of Unfoldingtruth's koppers logs and marching on the courthouse in our avatar garb with placards nailed to our logs 'JUSTICE FOR ALLISON' etc. - as a group we could be 'The Koppers', rather than the 'coppers'!!)....and I felt nervous waiting for the hearing as if I was going to give a speech in court myself. I am a bit alarmed at feeling so 'involved' when I know none of the players, but as Hawkins and others have pointed out, we are a very giving and caring society, and often feel the pain of others, whether it be through death, floods, fire etc. etc. (Cynics might say we like to 'suffer' vicariously through others, but I don't subscribe to this view!) I was trying to explain the whole story to my husband this afternoon, and honestly, you couldn't write a book of fiction that is more convoluted. But I really think that we have to oust Occam's Razor and the KISS principle, because IMO it IS going to be ugly and complicated in the end. Why? Everything has already been said before but the police were NEVER looking elsewhere for the perpetrator/s and wouldn't make an arrest without being absolutely bloody sure....it's just too big a case not to have 'enough' before arresting. As to COD - if there was blood in the car as MSM have now told us, then that had to come from somewhere on Allison. If she was strangled or drowned in the bath = no blood, unless she happened to burst a few vessels and bled. Jungle drums and smoke signals have only mentioned these two possible CODs, so where would the blood have come from? I guess if she was stabbed there would have been a great deal of blood evidence, which I don't think is the case. I don't think we can completely dismiss the excision of the hands hypothesis - it's been bandied about a number of times. The SC in court today got as far as saying there had been outrageous claims about GBC. IMO this means that there IS something very ugly or unusual in the whole business. Whether this is premeditation, the collusion of many others, the excision of hands, strangling in the bath and redressing of the body, and even the most recent 'salacious rumour' ie a 'boyfriend' (which has been alluded to a few times before - yes, I've read EVERY post godammit!), IMO SOMETHING is bizarro here......and I'm going to go MAD if we don't find out soon. I'm nothing but a sloth at the moment....just as I was going to 'retire' from WS GBC was arrested!...so on we go! I'm supposed to be editing a book for my BIL, but instead of wondering who is going to play who in the 'movie version' (it's a REALLY good book!) I'm wondering who is going to play who in the movie 'Feet of Clay'!!! Thank you all for being such caring folk - any humour here is JUST diffusion, and I know you all care deeply for Allison and her family, particularly the girls. (Any mob of people gathered together for anything at all squabble and carry on don't they? Forums....families.....workplaces................. ..............
Trooper
06-21-2012, 09:52 AM
Olivia obviously supported Gerard in his horizontal adventures.. no reason why she wouldnt support him in murder..
I suppose if you are asking for money from people for Gerards 'defense'...you have to put in the hard yards yourself.
Blue Bottle
06-21-2012, 09:52 AM
I hope they don't go down that road and put the victim on trial.
Personally, I feel he will continue to proclaim innocence and never offer a reason as to why.
You worded that well. I'm sort of semi tired and couldn't find the right words.
I've seen it where as a trial continues and what gets revealed doesn't seem to go quite to plan, a victim gets 'put on trial' (that's the expression I was looking for) so as to make it appear as if the victim was somehow partly responsible for, (asking for it) what happened.
It would be dreadful if that was the case. I honestly hope that doesn't happen because noone deserves to be murdered.
UnfoldingTruth
06-21-2012, 09:52 AM
The face of Koppers logs! That's you.
As long as its not a face like a Koppers Log.:floorlaugh:
marlywings
06-21-2012, 09:53 AM
Maybe that's why it's so important to be photographed and filmed in attendance at the court ? Legitimises any first-hand/personal accounts or ghost-written versions of events, later on
I think she'll be well & truly taking notes of every word that's mentioned...for laters.
laserdisc10
06-21-2012, 09:54 AM
That was...strange!
To me, suggests someone who's been raised in siege mentality, someone either accustomed to living in an atmosphere of ' It's us against the world, kids' (and then you ask why this would be? What else has gone on with them in the past)?
or someone not quite right in the head - lacking emotional-intelligence, prone to unpredictability, even someone with PTSD
It doesn't jell: the pastor's-wife voice one minute and the crazy sprint the next
all my own opinion
Cccclllaareb
06-21-2012, 09:55 AM
I did wonder if it was not really known by those in there why they were being told to leave. And that may account for OW reaction.
That's right, no one knew why they were being asked to leave and they all had to leave via the fire escape.
Trooper
06-21-2012, 09:55 AM
In my opinion, she is not enjoying the limelight at all. Not that limelight. She looks very stressed. Her husband and herself have been a moral amplificateur in society until recently. Now they are at risk to lose this status. JMO.
What society?
UnfoldingTruth
06-21-2012, 09:55 AM
Now, I didn't really expect GBC's lawyer (Peter Davis, SC) to say in his opening remarks that the Crown has a very sound case and a strong likelihood of success at trial, but...
...prior to the bomb threat, he did say that the allegations were "extraordinary" (I think) and that the Crown had a "weak case".
Before the security scare, Mr Davis had been responding to a police affidavit which detailed why the prosecution said Baden-Clay should not be granted bail.
"An examination of it will demonstrate the weakness of the case against my client," he said.
"(And) the extraordinary nature of some of the allegations being made."
Read more: http://www.news.com.au/national/security-threat-at-baden-clays-bail-hearing/story-e6frfkvr-1226403669080#ixzz1yR22aL16
I understand the defense attorney will try to put the evidence in the poorest light possible, but for a highly respected lawyer to describe the evidence as "weak", when that evidence is going to come out in the course of that very same hearing, surely means the case against GBC is not water-tight.
Interesting. I don't look at it that way. But guess we will see. I tend to think a good barrister is going to do his best to pick apart a case and say all the right things in terms of defence. But it doesn't actually mean it is weak.. but they will find things to try to prove it is weak.. MOO
Limaes
06-21-2012, 09:56 AM
As long as its not a face like a Koppers Log.:floorlaugh:
:giggle:
UnfoldingTruth
06-21-2012, 09:57 AM
That's right, no one knew why they were being asked to leave and they all had to leave via the fire escape.
Were you there Cccclllaareb? Just asking out of curiousity..:)
Solaris
06-21-2012, 09:57 AM
http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/police-search-gerard-baden-clays-parents-car/story-e6freon6-1226404830587
Wozzle
06-21-2012, 09:58 AM
I would suggest the following:- When Allison was declared missing the family closed ranks. Realising there would be media interest from the immediate police response on day one.
Apart from many , many other things that were allegedly discussed the decision on who would front the media on behalf of the family, may have been decided. OW may have more experience addressing groups of people where as the other brother may be shy and less able to do so. MOO On the other had she may have just been overwhelmed by it all and fell into the protective mode. As I don't know her this is just what I think may have happened. I felt she was very genuine in her concern for Allison when she fronted the media initially and she has probably been swept away by it all in an emotional sense ,and logic , re her at home needs have become secondary , if she is content they are being well cared for.. MOO and MOO That's all I want to say about OW..no offence intended.
That may be Mothergoose! I am an only daughter with two brothers and tend to do all the liaising and looking after in the family, particularly where our parents are concerned. (Coincidentally one of my brothers is 'Nigel' and his daughter is 'Olivia Elaine'............but there, any similarity ends!!)
PS I have long wondered what was on your avatar (maybe my screen isn't big enough!) and then you mentioned when joining the fray - issued with your own Koppers log, of course - you'd be the one wearing the 'sandals' like the goose....and then the penny dropped! I've had geese in the past and loved them - Polly, Molly and Wally. Can you tell us why your goose is 'shod'?:waitasec:
Mothergoose
06-21-2012, 09:58 AM
I can fully understand OW fully supporting her brother if she genuinely believes he is innocent. It is quite possible that she feels the responsibility of being the primary support person for her brother even to protect her parents who (if they are not involved) may be in deep stress/ grief and confusions and this could all be potentially compounded by the possibility of age related health issues. The other brother lives overseas and is less able to help.
It is an incredibly difficult position for OW to be in and probably a lot for her to process and comprehend especially if she is innocent of any involvement or knowledge of what happened. I believe it is right for her to support her brother and her parents. GBC is entitled to a fair trial. Helping her brother through the various trials that will follow will either confirm in her mind his innocence, or help her to comprehend and accept his guilt if he in fact is guilty. I can fully understand her wanting to support her family. That is quite normal. We really don't know what has gone on behind the scenes in terms of relationships between various sides of the family even prior to this horrid crime, or even whether OW has asked GBC directly whether he was involved in Allison's demise or not. We just don't know those things. Perhaps OW has wrestled with herself about whether to help GBC or not and decided that this is the best way forward. Again we don't know.
The person my husband and I supported through a court case we actually had conversations with encouraging him that if he was guilty to just confess. But you have to be careful in these conversations to not discourage and disbelief a person, who if they are indeed innocent of what they have been charged with, is quite likely to be in a significant state of stress and anxiety and disbelief themselves about the situation that they find themselves in. If he said that he was guilty we would have still supported him through the process which in no way would have condoned what he was said to have done. We would have been supporting him not to try and get him off but to deal positively and constructively with what he was faced with.
To support this person through this court case was an incredible demand on my family and also for my husband and I personally. It was a logistical nightmare with our children. But it was something that my husband and I knew that we had to do and we don't regret our support of that person. It took us a long time to get over it. So I do really feel for the Walton's at this time especially if they have absolutely no involvement in this horrid crime. They have been through a lot and it is not likely to be over for some time. If OW genuinely believes that GBC is innocent I believe that she is displaying great courage in supporting him especially given what seems to be public perception of the case and GBC's involvement. Obviously if she is in any way involved or covering up for the family the scenario is quite different.
These are all just my humble opinions as we wait for justice to unfold for Allison.
Very well said. Sometimes friends and family support those they love in such situations, because they just feel so strongly compelled to do so.Others would run a mile. Takes all kinds huh? On that note I bid you G'nite. Thanks for the post. Enlightening perspective. Cheers.
UnfoldingTruth
06-21-2012, 10:00 AM
I can fully understand OW fully supporting her brother if she genuinely believes he is innocent. It is quite possible that she feels the responsibility of being the primary support person for her brother even to protect her parents who (if they are not involved) may be in deep stress/ grief and confusions and this could all be potentially compounded by the possibility of age related health issues. The other brother lives overseas and is less able to help.
It is an incredibly difficult position for OW to be in and probably a lot for her to process and comprehend especially if she is innocent of any involvement or knowledge of what happened. I believe it is right for her to support her brother and her parents. GBC is entitled to a fair trial. Helping her brother through the various trials that will follow will either confirm in her mind his innocence, or help her to comprehend and accept his guilt if he in fact is guilty. I can fully understand her wanting to support her family. That is quite normal. We really don't know what has gone on behind the scenes in terms of relationships between various sides of the family even prior to this horrid crime, or even whether OW has asked GBC directly whether he was involved in Allison's demise or not. We just don't know those things. Perhaps OW has wrestled with herself about whether to help GBC or not and decided that this is the best way forward. Again we don't know.
The person my husband and I supported through a court case we actually had conversations with encouraging him that if he was guilty to just confess. But you have to be careful in these conversations to not discourage and disbelief a person, who if they are indeed innocent of what they have been charged with, is quite likely to be in a significant state of stress and anxiety and disbelief themselves about the situation that they find themselves in. If he said that he was guilty we would have still supported him through the process which in no way would have condoned what he was said to have done. We would have been supporting him not to try and get him off but to deal positively and constructively with what he was faced with.
To support this person through this court case was an incredible demand on my family and also for my husband and I personally. It was a logistical nightmare with our children. But it was something that my husband and I knew that we had to do and we don't regret our support of that person. It took us a long time to get over it. So I do really feel for the Walton's at this time especially if they have absolutely no involvement in this horrid crime. They have been through a lot and it is not likely to be over for some time. If OW genuinely believes that GBC is innocent I believe that she is displaying great courage in supporting him especially given what seems to be public perception of the case and GBC's involvement. Obviously if she is in any way involved or covering up for the family the scenario is quite different.
These are all just my humble opinions as we wait for justice to unfold for Allison.
At the risk of my posts just handing out platitudes and warm fuzzies tonight- though we can all use them sometimes(warm fuzzies).. another great post ..
On that note G'night.:bedtime:
mum73
06-21-2012, 10:01 AM
Olivia obviously supported Gerard in his horizontal adventures.. no reason why she wouldnt support him in murder..
I suppose if you are asking for money from people for Gerards 'defense'...you have to put in the hard yards yourself.
I'm curious as to why you say she "obviously supported" him in his "horizontal adventures". She lives in Townsville, I don't really understand why/how you come to this conclusion.
If anything, I would think it would be something GBC would want to be kept secret from a Pastors' wife.
UnfoldingTruth
06-21-2012, 10:02 AM
http://http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/police-search-gerard-baden-clays-parents-car/story-e6freon6-1226404830587
Thank You! oops..page is not loading..
marlywings
06-21-2012, 10:02 AM
June 22, 2012 12:00AM
DETECTIVES investigating the alleged murder of Allison Baden-Clay returned last night to her in-laws' home where they conducted further searches of their property.
The Courier-Mail can reveal the car owned by Gerard Baden-Clay's parents was searched. Police rifled through the boot and back seat of the couple's silver Holden Statesman about 6pm.
After Nigel and Elaine Baden-Clay walked their dog, they were intercepted by five detectives who spent about an hour with them, mostly inside the house, only coming out briefly about halfway through with Mr Baden-Clay to search the vehicle before leaving about 6.20pm.
http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/police-search-gerard-baden-clays-parents-car/story-e6freon6-1226404830587
Mothergoose
06-21-2012, 10:03 AM
That may be Mothergoose! I am an only daughter with two brothers and tend to do all the liaising and looking after in the family, particularly where our parents are concerned. (Coincidentally one of my brothers is 'Nigel' and his daughter is 'Olivia Elaine'............but there, any similarity ends!!)
PS I have long wondered what was on your avatar (maybe my screen isn't big enough!) and then you mentioned when joining the fray - issued with your own Koppers log, of course - you'd be the one wearing the 'sandals' like the goose....and then the penny dropped! I've had geese in the past and loved them - Polly, Molly and Wally. Can you tell us why your goose is 'shod'?:waitasec:
Well I couldn't take her (Camilla the goose)to court barefooted could I ? We aren't hippies you know. :pullhair:
Limaes
06-21-2012, 10:04 AM
You worded that well. I'm sort of semi tired and couldn't find the right words.
I've seen it where as a trial continues and what gets revealed doesn't seem to go quite to plan, a victim gets 'put on trial' (that's the expression I was looking for) so as to make it appear as if the victim was somehow partly responsible for, (asking for it) what happened.
It would be dreadful if that was the case. I honestly hope that doesn't happen because noone deserves to be murdered.
In my opinion, in the killer's mind it was all her fault. I have always thought her killer is a dumbarse, surely he won't put that beyond doubt by going that route in court.
laserdisc10
06-21-2012, 10:05 AM
I'm curious as to why you say she "obviously supported" him in his "horizontal adventures". She lives in Townsville, I don't really understand why/how you come to this conclusion.
If anything, I would think it would be something GBC would want to be kept secret from a Pastors' wife.
The media's reported that GBC announced to staff (and his parents were staff) that Allison had learned of his affair with TM, after which TM left, allegedly
That's pretty poor behaviour from a business principal, scoutmaster, husband, father, head of chamber of commerce, etc. and I suspect the parents would have put OW in the loop re: events. What reason would they have not to tell OW? What reason would Allison or even GBC have to not mention it to OW, seeing they were all such a close family unit, even working together
Makara
06-21-2012, 10:06 AM
:what:What's that Makara? Are you sweaty and pale? Feel like there is a weight on your chest? Have pain radiating down your left arm? Have a sense of impending doom? I'll be right there!:bud::what:
Diagnosis::spinner: You're not having a heart attack pet, it's just this case...in this case! (But see your doctor if pain persists:hot:)
You are such a dag! :floorlaugh: I shouldn't laugh, DH had those exact symtoms not that long ago. Not good!
Trooper
06-21-2012, 10:06 AM
I'm curious as to why you say she "obviously supported" him in his "horizontal adventures". She lives in Townsville, I don't really understand why/how you come to this conclusion.
If anything, I would think it would be something GBC would want to be kept secret from a Pastors' wife.
This is a close family. Nigel and Elaine knew, they worked in the office daily with them both, Gerard and Toni.. if Nige and Elaine knew it would be a long stretch to say that Olivia didnt know.. why the distance comes into it is baffling to me. Phones are commonly used , chats are had.. Olivia was of the opinion, and careful to publicly state this, that Allison was depressed.. well why?? Olivia would have known WHY..
Do you think he told Nige and Elaine NOT to tell Olivia? and do you think N and E would have obeyed that edict?
I find that hard to believe. However, luckily I dont have to believe it. Which doesnt prevent you from doing so.
Certainly, Nige and Elaine were not going to tell Allison about it.
CaseClosed
06-21-2012, 10:07 AM
To me, suggests someone who's been raised in siege mentality, someone either accustomed to living in an atmosphere of ' It's us against the world, kids' (and then you ask why this would be? What else has gone on with them in the past)?
or someone not quite right in the head - lacking emotional-intelligence, prone to unpredictability, even someone with PTSD
It doesn't jell: the pastor's-wife voice one minute and the crazy sprint the next
all my own opinion
With all due respect, would you please elaborate on how you come to all these conclusions?
laserdisc10
06-21-2012, 10:07 AM
June 22, 2012 12:00AM
DETECTIVES investigating the alleged murder of Allison Baden-Clay returned last night to her in-laws' home where they conducted further searches of their property.
The Courier-Mail can reveal the car owned by Gerard Baden-Clay's parents was searched. Police rifled through the boot and back seat of the couple's silver Holden Statesman about 6pm.
After Nigel and Elaine Baden-Clay walked their dog, they were intercepted by five detectives who spent about an hour with them, mostly inside the house, only coming out briefly about halfway through with Mr Baden-Clay to search the vehicle before leaving about 6.20pm.
http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/police-search-gerard-baden-clays-parents-car/story-e6freon6-1226404830587
Thank you :)
The link didn't work for me and I couldn't find it on CM site
So a supposed 'rumour' of an hour ago has swiftly been confirmed as fact, yet again
and thank you again. Nice to see the investigators still working hard
Makara
06-21-2012, 10:07 AM
http://http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/police-search-gerard-baden-clays-parents-car/story-e6freon6-1226404830587
Broken link. Thanks anyway.
Trooper
06-21-2012, 10:08 AM
ANd when Allison did find out about, and Toni was fired.. and it then went on. ..... my bet is that Nige and Elaine knew about that, too. and Olivia as well.
Mothergoose
06-21-2012, 10:08 AM
I'm curious as to why you say she "obviously supported" him in his "horizontal adventures". She lives in Townsville, I don't really understand why/how you come to this conclusion.
If anything, I would think it would be something GBC would want to be kept secret from a Pastors' wife.
I have so wanted to say that but bit my tongue so hard my hot chocolate hurt it. :rocker: As I said in a previous post I think OW was 'Out of the loop re GBC extra marital. exploits. :rocker::rocker::rocker:
marlywings
06-21-2012, 10:09 AM
""After Nigel and Elaine Baden-Clay walked their dog, they were intercepted by five detectives who spent about an hour with them, mostly inside the house, only coming out briefly about halfway through with Mr Baden-Clay to search the vehicle before leaving about 6.20pm."""
That ^ is some serious stuff happening there...they don't send out FIVE detectives if it's piddly stuff!!!
angel1
06-21-2012, 10:11 AM
Now, I didn't really expect GBC's lawyer (Peter Davis, SC) to say in his opening remarks that the Crown has a very sound case and a strong likelihood of success at trial, but...
...prior to the bomb threat, he did say that the allegations were "extraordinary" (I think) and that the Crown had a "weak case".
Before the security scare, Mr Davis had been responding to a police affidavit which detailed why the prosecution said Baden-Clay should not be granted bail.
"An examination of it will demonstrate the weakness of the case against my client," he said.
"(And) the extraordinary nature of some of the allegations being made."
Read more: http://www.news.com.au/national/security-threat-at-baden-clays-bail-hearing/story-e6frfkvr-1226403669080#ixzz1yR22aL16
I understand the defense attorney will try to put the evidence in the poorest light possible, but for a highly respected lawyer to describe the evidence as "weak", when that evidence is going to come out in the course of that very same hearing, surely means the case against GBC is not water-tight.
I'm kind of thinking that too after reading that report again. My partner thought it meant the same thing too. That's mine and my partners opinion only not fact
itsthevibe
06-21-2012, 10:12 AM
OLiva has been cleaning up Gerards messes forever, obviously.. if Nige and Elaine knew and they most certainly did about Ms McHugh, so did Olivia.. complicit in keeping that from Allison. When Toni McHugh was fired , when Allison eventualy did find out about it,, it went on , certainly Nige and Elaine knew about that too, and it stands to reason Olivia did.
and if Olivia knew about this, so did the Pastor.
Not what I would call exactly a friendly environment for Allison. hard hard times.
Yes, another very relevant perspective here. That's what is so confusing to me. On the one hand I can understand the concept of supporting ones family no matter what, and going in to bat for them. And i can sympathise to some extent with any of them who did not have any involvement or knowledge of Allisons murder. But if the family actually supported TM being in the picture, well it's just not nice. Someone posted here when this was mentioned ages ago that there was a photo of GBC & TM together, looking very much the couple, captioned simply 'Gerard & Toni' on the Facebook page of OW and of Nigelaine. And Nigelaine worked in the C21 office. I'm starting to get a picture that Allison really had some huge crosses to bear and that despite the joy of her 3 daughters she may well have been very troubled.
UnfoldingTruth
06-21-2012, 10:13 AM
""After Nigel and Elaine Baden-Clay walked their dog, they were intercepted by five detectives who spent about an hour with them, mostly inside the house, only coming out briefly about halfway through with Mr Baden-Clay to search the vehicle before leaving about 6.20pm."""
That ^ is some serious stuff happening there...they don't send out FIVE detectives if it's piddly stuff!!!
Oh yes. this IS getting very interesting and making me think maybe the BC elders do know something.. it is just MOO..but the Police seem intent on finding something there.. again just MOO..
and I forgot..I was heading to bed..
mum73
06-21-2012, 10:14 AM
This is a close family. Nigel and Elaine knew, they worked in the office daily with them both, Gerard and Toni.. if Nige and Elaine knew it would be a long stretch to say that Olivia didnt know.. why the distance comes into it is baffling to me. Phones are commonly used , chats are had.. Olivia was of the opinion, and careful to publicly state this, that Allison was depressed.. well why?? Olivia would have known WHY..
Do you think he told Nige and Elaine NOT to tell Olivia? and do you think N and E would have obeyed that edict?
I find that hard to believe. However, luckily I dont have to believe it. Which doesnt prevent you from doing so.
Certainly, Nige and Elaine were not going to tell Allison about it.
Sorry, I still don't understand how possible knowledge translates to obvious support. But each to their own.
Trooper
06-21-2012, 10:15 AM
I have so wanted to say that but bit my tongue so hard my hot chocolate hurt it. :rocker: As I said in a previous post I think OW was 'Out of the loop re GBC extra marital. exploits. :rocker::rocker::rocker:
may I ask why you think this, though?? " I think OW was 'Out of the loop re GBC extra marital. exploits' mother goose?
Why I think she was IN the loop is this is a family that visits back and forth all the time. . Olivia is right IN the loop of it all. So I am interested in why you think she was unaware of this ongoing and long term event, if you have time to respond, I would appreciate it.
angel1
06-21-2012, 10:15 AM
This case is getting so confusing :banghead: :banghead: My partner is still saying that he thinks there was more involved than just GBC. Like i said in one of the threads my partner said IF anyone else was involved he was hoping GBC would actually tell them. Does this case seem very confusing to anyone else? Or is it just me ?
Trooper
06-21-2012, 10:18 AM
even in Olivias begging letter for funds, she just wipes Gerard CLEAN as a whistle. yet it is public knowledge, confirmed by the police, yet Olivia doesnt mention this in her haste to say that Gerard 'deserves the best'..
well. why does he?
an Adulterous brother.. ??
and her a pastors wife?
what doesnt add up here?
Cccclllaareb
06-21-2012, 10:20 AM
Were you there Cccclllaareb? Just asking out of curiousity..:)
No but I may as well have been! I was getting a live commentary with accompanying photographs, from a certain someone I know, who was at the supreme court today.
marlywings
06-21-2012, 10:22 AM
Oh yes. this IS getting very interesting and making me think maybe the BC elders do know something.. it is just MOO..but the Police seem intent on finding something there.. again just MOO..
and I forgot..I was heading to bed..
I don't think we found out whether or not the BC's went to Arthur Gorrie or the courts today??? IF it was the prison...were they going to take something in for GBC??...stupid idea I know but stupider things have happened.
Seems odd & out of the blue detectives turned up there on this very night.
Solaris
06-21-2012, 10:23 AM
Apologies - not sure why the link I initially posted didn't work.
Maybe this one will work. :-)
It's just MSM confirmation of the information that Molly kindly shared with us earlier. The police attended the BC seniors' property and searched their car this evening.
http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/police-search-gerard-baden-clays-parents-car/story-e6freon6-1226404830587
Wozzle
06-21-2012, 10:27 AM
Well I couldn't take her (Camilla the goose)to court barefooted could I ? We aren't hippies you know. :pullhair:
Biggest guffaw from me for the day! Goodnight!:laugh:
Limaes
06-21-2012, 10:27 AM
may I ask why you think this, though?? " I think OW was 'Out of the loop re GBC extra marital. exploits' mother goose?
Why I think she was IN the loop is this is a family that visits back and forth all the time. . Olivia is right IN the loop of it all. So I am interested in why you think she was unaware of this ongoing and long term event, if you have time to respond, I would appreciate it.
Also, OW spoke to Allison the night before she disappeared. The following is my opinion only and I am not stating it as fact ...OW said Allison was fine and this is where I feel she has lied. I don't think she was fine at all and if she did in fact speak with her it was due to the fact that she had heard about recent "incidents" and was fully aware that Allison was not happy. If this is the case then she is withholding information. Perhaps Allison trusted her and confided in her. How else would she know she was "depressed"?
whitechapel
06-21-2012, 10:27 AM
Apologies - not sure why the link I initially posted didn't work.
Thanks Solaris.
The reason the link did not work in your original post... One too many "http://" in the url link.
Blue Bottle
06-21-2012, 10:29 AM
This is a close family. Nigel and Elaine knew, they worked in the office daily with them both, Gerard and Toni.. if Nige and Elaine knew it would be a long stretch to say that Olivia didnt know.. why the distance comes into it is baffling to me. Phones are commonly used , chats are had.. Olivia was of the opinion, and careful to publicly state this, that Allison was depressed.. well why?? Olivia would have known WHY..
I come from a really close, very supportive of each other family and no way would my two sisters and I tell everything to our brother nor to our mum. My dad died a couple of years ago, but when he was alive noone told him anything much and we mostly kept him in the dark like a mushroom, much to his annoyance if he did happen to find anything out. With my mum often enough saying... owhhh no, don't tell your dad and we'd all laugh coz we knew what she meant. lol...
Families 'learn' after a while which family members to say what to because if you tell so and so, (my dad mostly when it came to my family), he'll go on and have some rant and rave at how immoral it is and bla bla bla... and then some more bla and bleat... yet we were all close to him. You just didn't want to go through all 'that' with him, so to avoid it, you didn't tell him.
Limaes
06-21-2012, 10:29 AM
This case is getting so confusing :banghead: :banghead: My partner is still saying that he thinks there was more involved than just GBC. Like i said in one of the threads my partner said IF anyone else was involved he was hoping GBC would actually tell them. Does this case seem very confusing to anyone else? Or is it just me ?
No it is not just you LOL
mum73
06-21-2012, 10:33 AM
I don't think we found out whether or not the BC's went to Arthur Gorrie or the courts today??? IF it was the prison...were they going to take something in for GBC??...stupid idea I know but stupider things have happened.
Seems odd & out of the blue detectives turned up there on this very night.
I was thinking along these lines too.
If they were looking for an item, you wouldn't think it could be related to Allisons' murder, as surely they would expect anything like that to have been removed a long time ago (making it difficult to get a warrant on that basis).
...and I was under the impression QPS suspect Allison was transported in the Captiva, hence the reason for releasing the information about the blood found in the car.
So I believe this search was related to something more recent.
Makara
06-21-2012, 10:34 AM
It is interesting that the charge of 'interfering with the corpse' takes place at the Kholo bridge.. specifically at the Kholo bridge
maybe Gerard had to scramble back home, and get walking gear for the body, once a story had been created, undress her , dress her in the walking gear and scramble back home again.
Hey Trooper, I can't find the link now, but I recall it was mentioned in MSM as Knolo Creek, not bridge.
minni
06-21-2012, 10:34 AM
This is an interesting twist! It doesn't seem to make sense to be searching papa smurfs car at this point in time does it? I get the distinct impression that mind games are being played by QPS, and they are putting the pressure on somebody
Mothergoose
06-21-2012, 10:35 AM
may I ask why you think this, though?? " I think OW was 'Out of the loop re GBC extra marital. exploits' mother goose?
Why I think she was IN the loop is this is a family that visits back and forth all the time. . Olivia is right IN the loop of it all. So I am interested in why you think she was unaware of this ongoing and long term event, if you have time to respond, I would appreciate it.
Well you are more informed than I am then. I have no idea how many times she flies to Brisbane in a year to visit the family. I base my opinion (and that is all it is) on the fact that she lives in Townsville with her pastor husband and her children.Has her own life. There would be pretty strong demands on her time being the wife of a pastor.A friend of mine his Pastor of our Anglican Church and is wife is flat out all the time. So based on those two things alone (distance and her busy life) she may not be so involved with GBC's goings on as you might think.
That you base your opinion on the fact that OW has been going back and forth lately is not rational to me. These are extraordinary circumstances. As someone else said knowledge is not acceptance. She certainly knows now and is probably not happy about it. My favorite quote is "Information is not knowledge" Albert Einstein. Do you have her yearly Itinerary. Even if you did it would not prove she was in the loop would it.Your opinion based on her recent travel does not convince me she was 'In the loop'.I suggest we agree to disagree. Please don't ask me about OW again. My thoughts have been fairly clear no offence intended.:please:
minni
06-21-2012, 10:39 AM
Also, OW spoke to Allison the night before she disappeared. The following is my opinion only and I am not stating it as fact ...OW said Allison was fine and this is where I feel she has lied. I don't think she was fine at all and if she did in fact speak with her it was due to the fact that she had heard about recent "incidents" and was fully aware that Allison was not happy. If this is the case then she is withholding information. Perhaps Allison trusted her and confided in her. How else would she know she was "depressed"?
I believe that its possible too that olivia spoke to her in the days prior to her murder, and that phonecall prompted olivia t io come down from townsville. If she was in brisbane it would explain why she was there early
marlywings
06-21-2012, 10:42 AM
I was thinking along these lines too.
If they were looking for an item, you wouldn't think it could be related to Allisons' murder, as surely they would expect anything like that to have been removed a long time ago (making it difficult to get a warrant on that basis).
...and I was under the impression QPS suspect Allison was transported in the Captiva, hence the reason for releasing the information about the blood found in the car.
So I believe this search was related to something more recent.
Whatever it was all about it was something damn serious to warrant five detectives going in...two or three maybe but not five!!!
I remember reading a case some time back, a shed or warehouse had to be searched...two detectives were sent in.
marlywings
06-21-2012, 10:45 AM
Hey Trooper, I can't find the link now, but I recall it was mentioned in MSM as Knolo Creek, not bridge.
He is further charged with improperly interfering with her body at Kholo Creek, where she was eventually found 10 days after being reported missing
http://www.fairfieldchampion.com.au/news/national/national/general/badenclay-faces-court-charged-with-wifes-murder/2590270.aspx
Thinking
06-21-2012, 10:53 AM
I was thinking along these lines too.
If they were looking for an item, you wouldn't think it could be related to Allisons' murder, as surely they would expect anything like that to have been removed a long time ago (making it difficult to get a warrant on that basis).
...and I was under the impression QPS suspect Allison was transported in the Captiva, hence the reason for releasing the information about the blood found in the car.
So I believe this search was related to something more recent.
Without wanting to sound outlandish (because it certainly sounds that way) - but something to do with the bomb threat today?
Or something to do with further tests that have come back?
Or something to do with them seeing GBC today?
But if they just searched the boot and back seat, they must have been looking for a particular item, right? They would impound the car if they wanted to test it for anything. I'm bamboozled. Good night.
mum73
06-21-2012, 10:55 AM
Whatever it was all about it was something damn serious to warrant five detectives going in...two or three maybe but not five!!!
I remember reading a case some time back, a shed or warehouse had to be searched...two detectives were sent in.
So many new questions!
Were the BC seniors cooperative in this search? The article says they were inside most of the time and only came out briefly to search the car. So they weren't searching it as the potential vehicle to transport the body.
Maybe something had been reported to QPS (eg I saw such and such in the back of their car...) and BC's allowed them to search the car, rather than the execution of a warrant?
Also wondering if OW is staying with the BC seniors.
Thinking
06-21-2012, 10:56 AM
Whatever it was all about it was something damn serious to warrant five detectives going in...two or three maybe but not five!!!
I remember reading a case some time back, a shed or warehouse had to be searched...two detectives were sent in.
Hmmm there may indeed be a further reason why the girls have not remained with the paternal grandparents.
Good night.
OldAussie
06-21-2012, 11:17 AM
I guess another option is if the defense only just heard some of the allegations against GBC as part of the prosecutions reasons for not allowing bail (??) someone might arrange a bomb threat to get it adjourned for more time to prepare counterargumetns?
Hi Susan these were my thoughts too, if PDSC's first few lines are anything to go by it looks like it is in fact HE, who has the weak case and extra time would suit him just fine, not to mention he likes the money so having to appear again today would suit him too.
Makara
06-21-2012, 11:20 AM
You worded that well. I'm sort of semi tired and couldn't find the right words.
I've seen it where as a trial continues and what gets revealed doesn't seem to go quite to plan, a victim gets 'put on trial' (that's the expression I was looking for) so as to make it appear as if the victim was somehow partly responsible for, (asking for it) what happened.
BBM:
It would be dreadful if that was the case. I honestly hope that doesn't happen because noone deserves to be murdered.
Blue Bottle, unfortunately I feel that is exactly what will happen if this case goes to trail. :please:
Bayside
06-21-2012, 11:30 AM
""After Nigel and Elaine Baden-Clay walked their dog, they were intercepted by five detectives who spent about an hour with them, mostly inside the house, only coming out briefly about halfway through with Mr Baden-Clay to search the vehicle before leaving about 6.20pm."""
That ^ is some serious stuff happening there...they don't send out FIVE detectives if it's piddly stuff!!!
Well that would have topped the day off the BC clan haha.
Bayside
06-21-2012, 11:39 AM
Sorry Bayside, from what I understand the email from OW was a private email to family and friends. In saying that we also don't have any other private emails from the family.
Well it is not private any more.
Bayside
06-21-2012, 11:43 AM
So it looks like no Websleuths were at the court today as nobody has filled us in on what the defence counsel was refuting of the police's claims. Has anybody heard?
BTW I'm lying in bed at Maui, listening to the sound of the rolling surf.
Does anyone have any thoughts on whether the accused or any of his family will be at the cricket day on Sunday? I'm thinking they'd be too stressed even if he makes bail.
What a frustrating day for all concerned.
Can you imagine the balls he would have to get out on bail and turn up.
Makara
06-21-2012, 11:45 AM
This case is getting so confusing :banghead: :banghead: My partner is still saying that he thinks there was more involved than just GBC. Like i said in one of the threads my partner said IF anyone else was involved he was hoping GBC would actually tell them. Does this case seem very confusing to anyone else? Or is it just me ?
Hey Angel,what do YOU you think about this case?
Bayside
06-21-2012, 11:52 AM
It would be very difficult to be a supporter of an accused murderer. The problem families in these situations seem to face is that their support often seems quite disrespectful of the victim. Guilty or innocent, what is happening to Gerard is nothing compared to what has happened to Allison. Gerard is safe and receiving medical care while Allison was murdered and left to the elements for 11 days. Gerard will know (of) his daughters as they grow, we have to rely on faith regarding the afterlife to believe Allison will have that opportunity. It would do GBC much more good for those supporting him to keep Allison front and centre while supporting their relative. The apparent lack of grief for Allison hurts the perception of them all.
Well said thanks.
Curiousasacat
06-21-2012, 11:53 AM
I saw NBC but it was dark as I walked by , ( and stood and had a prolonged peak!!!)
Love your work Molly. : )
OldAussie
06-21-2012, 11:56 AM
At times I feel sorry for the BC's, they would never have imagined being thrust into a nightmare like this, then I think, no, if they had told the truth and been co operative with the police they would have the same relationship the Dickies have with the police.
There would be no surprise searches, they would not be always waiting for the other shoe to drop, the police would phone and tell them what they need and the BC's could give it peacefully and everyone's happy.
Bayside
06-21-2012, 11:56 AM
I saw the camera people there taking photos etc, but I have not seen it anywhere in the media, I was very surprised , I thought the media would be in a frenzy, but I will check the late news.
Good reporting Molly, thanks.
Bayside
06-21-2012, 11:58 AM
At times I feel sorry for the BC's, they would never have imagined being thrust into a nightmare like this, then I think, no, if they had told the truth and been co operative with the police they would have the same relationship the Dickies have with the police.
There would be no surprise searches, they would not be always waiting for the other shoe to drop, the police would phone and tell them what they need and the BC's could give it peacefully and everyone's happy.
Yeah true and I think when they were aware of his affair with Toni they should have stepped in and opposed it and supported Allison.
OldAussie
06-21-2012, 11:59 AM
Well it is not private any more.
I wonder who the rat in the ranks is who leaked the email to the press.
Presumably, they would have only sent those emails to people they trusted.
Curiousasacat
06-21-2012, 11:59 AM
Someone on another site who was at the hearing today sat very close to OW.
Her description of how OW appeared today was interesting. Apparently this person is going back for the hearing again tomorrow...
Amee, can you elaborate? Can you also please keep an eye on their comments today, pretty please if you can?
jubillee
06-21-2012, 12:00 PM
ANd when Allison did find out about, and Toni was fired.. and it then went on. ..... my bet is that Nige and Elaine knew about that, too. and Olivia as well.
My brother lives in another state. Would not have a clue what he gets up to.
jubillee
06-21-2012, 12:04 PM
Yeah true and I think when they were aware of his affair with Toni they should have stepped in and opposed it and supported Allison.
Honestly how do we know what they did or did not do in regards to his affair. They may have been very opposed to it and said so but at the end of the day he is a grown man and there was very little control his family would have on that situation.
Bayside
06-21-2012, 12:04 PM
Funny that. Read post from Aberline_1979 re bomb scare at Supreme Court this afternoon:
ABERLINE_1979 Post no: 376
' ...So are we guessing (repeat: I said GUESSING!) that someone has phoned in a bomb threat?
I don't know about everyone else here, but that's what my logic would suggest. I'm not saying that it isn't just a coincidence that this "security threat" has occurred when it did...but really, what are the odds?
I wonder if the voice on the phone had a slight South African accent to it? Was there a female voice in the background? Did the call end with the sound of a garage door closing and an aging couple tongue-pashing?...'
Lolol too funny.
itsthevibe
06-21-2012, 12:05 PM
may I ask why you think this, though?? " I think OW was 'Out of the loop re GBC extra marital. exploits' mother goose?
Why I think she was IN the loop is this is a family that visits back and forth all the time. . Olivia is right IN the loop of it all. So I am interested in why you think she was unaware of this ongoing and long term event, if you have time to respond, I would appreciate it.
If GBC is the murderer, I think OW was out of the loop about the murder. Not so sure about the TM affair though. Which makes it harder to empathise with her. However I do think she is the most genuine of the lot of them and believes her brother is innocent of murder. I thought this from the beginning, my interpretation of her attitude and body language during 'that' interview was that she was dreadfully worried, possibly suspecting something or at least hoping there was nothing, yet concerned that her brother might make things look bad for himself. I don't think she actually knew anything and I feel that since then she has been convinced he is innocent.
I agree with whoever mentioned about not telling certain things to different members of the family. Happens in my family - my siblings always hide any misdemeanours from me but tell each other, either because they know I'l disapprove or because they want to give me a better impression of who they are.
itsthevibe
06-21-2012, 12:12 PM
Itsthevibe: What a tremendous post! Common sense with compassion. And I too looked at that pic of GBC cuffed in the car and saw: terror, humiliation and pain. Who amongst us hasn't done something really rotten in their lives that they regret and think of over the years, wishing it had been different? Of course noone can condone killing, but much as I hope GBC experiences the full wrath of the law, I can't help but looking at him and thinking how absolutely horrendous it must be to be in his shoes. I also find myself thinking that if they're all guilty of either assisting with the 'deed' or at the very least knowing about it, and if they were not fond of Allison (or she of them) then it would have been so hypocritical of them to be bleating to the public in the media....as someone said: they're damned if they do, and damned if they don't. It's such a horrible tragedy (including for the BCs) but I feel the most for the SHEs (girls) - innocents who will have to carry this for the rest of their lives, whatever transpires from here on in.
I laughed along with you all to defuse the tension of what was 'going down' (I was imagining each of us grabbling one of Unfoldingtruth's koppers logs and marching on the courthouse in our avatar garb with placards nailed to our logs 'JUSTICE FOR ALLISON' etc. - as a group we could be 'The Koppers', rather than the 'coppers'!!)....and I felt nervous waiting for the hearing as if I was going to give a speech in court myself. I am a bit alarmed at feeling so 'involved' when I know none of the players, but as Hawkins and others have pointed out, we are a very giving and caring society, and often feel the pain of others, whether it be through death, floods, fire etc. etc. (Cynics might say we like to 'suffer' vicariously through others, but I don't subscribe to this view!) I was trying to explain the whole story to my husband this afternoon, and honestly, you couldn't write a book of fiction that is more convoluted. But I really think that we have to oust Occam's Razor and the KISS principle, because IMO it IS going to be ugly and complicated in the end. Why? Everything has already been said before but the police were NEVER looking elsewhere for the perpetrator/s and wouldn't make an arrest without being absolutely bloody sure....it's just too big a case not to have 'enough' before arresting. As to COD - if there was blood in the car as MSM have now told us, then that had to come from somewhere on Allison. If she was strangled or drowned in the bath = no blood, unless she happened to burst a few vessels and bled. Jungle drums and smoke signals have only mentioned these two possible CODs, so where would the blood have come from? I guess if she was stabbed there would have been a great deal of blood evidence, which I don't think is the case. I don't think we can completely dismiss the excision of the hands hypothesis - it's been bandied about a number of times. The SC in court today got as far as saying there had been outrageous claims about GBC. IMO this means that there IS something very ugly or unusual in the whole business. Whether this is premeditation, the collusion of many others, the excision of hands, strangling in the bath and redressing of the body, and even the most recent 'salacious rumour' ie a 'boyfriend' (which has been alluded to a few times before - yes, I've read EVERY post godammit!), IMO SOMETHING is bizarro here......and I'm going to go MAD if we don't find out soon. I'm nothing but a sloth at the moment....just as I was going to 'retire' from WS GBC was arrested!...so on we go! I'm supposed to be editing a book for my BIL, but instead of wondering who is going to play who in the 'movie version' (it's a REALLY good book!) I'm wondering who is going to play who in the movie 'Feet of Clay'!!! Thank you all for being such caring folk - any humour here is JUST diffusion, and I know you all care deeply for Allison and her family, particularly the girls. (Any mob of people gathered together for anything at all squabble and carry on don't they? Forums....families.....workplaces................. ..............
Thanks and a fascinating and clever post. Loveya work! :seeya:
Curiousasacat
06-21-2012, 12:15 PM
Itsthevibe: What a tremendous post! Common sense with compassion. And I too looked at that pic of GBC cuffed in the car and saw: terror, humiliation and pain. Who amongst us hasn't done something really rotten in their lives that they regret and think of over the years, wishing it had been different? Of course noone can condone killing, but much as I hope GBC experiences the full wrath of the law, I can't help but looking at him and thinking how absolutely horrendous it must be to be in his shoes. I also find myself thinking that if they're all guilty of either assisting with the 'deed' or at the very least knowing about it, and if they were not fond of Allison (or she of them) then it would have been so hypocritical of them to be bleating to the public in the media....as someone said: they're damned if they do, and damned if they don't. It's such a horrible tragedy (including for the BCs) but I feel the most for the SHEs (girls) - innocents who will have to carry this for the rest of their lives, whatever transpires from here on in.
I laughed along with you all to defuse the tension of what was 'going down' (I was imagining each of us grabbling one of Unfoldingtruth's koppers logs and marching on the courthouse in our avatar garb with placards nailed to our logs 'JUSTICE FOR ALLISON' etc. - as a group we could be 'The Koppers', rather than the 'coppers'!!)....and I felt nervous waiting for the hearing as if I was going to give a speech in court myself. I am a bit alarmed at feeling so 'involved' when I know none of the players, but as Hawkins and others have pointed out, we are a very giving and caring society, and often feel the pain of others, whether it be through death, floods, fire etc. etc. (Cynics might say we like to 'suffer' vicariously through others, but I don't subscribe to this view!) I was trying to explain the whole story to my husband this afternoon, and honestly, you couldn't write a book of fiction that is more convoluted. But I really think that we have to oust Occam's Razor and the KISS principle, because IMO it IS going to be ugly and complicated in the end. Why? Everything has already been said before but the police were NEVER looking elsewhere for the perpetrator/s and wouldn't make an arrest without being absolutely bloody sure....it's just too big a case not to have 'enough' before arresting. As to COD - if there was blood in the car as MSM have now told us, then that had to come from somewhere on Allison. If she was strangled or drowned in the bath = no blood, unless she happened to burst a few vessels and bled. Jungle drums and smoke signals have only mentioned these two possible CODs, so where would the blood have come from? I guess if she was stabbed there would have been a great deal of blood evidence, which I don't think is the case. I don't think we can completely dismiss the excision of the hands hypothesis - it's been bandied about a number of times. The SC in court today got as far as saying there had been outrageous claims about GBC. IMO this means that there IS something very ugly or unusual in the whole business. Whether this is premeditation, the collusion of many others, the excision of hands, strangling in the bath and redressing of the body, and even the most recent 'salacious rumour' ie a 'boyfriend' (which has been alluded to a few times before - yes, I've read EVERY post godammit!), IMO SOMETHING is bizarro here......and I'm going to go MAD if we don't find out soon. I'm nothing but a sloth at the moment....just as I was going to 'retire' from WS GBC was arrested!...so on we go! I'm supposed to be editing a book for my BIL, but instead of wondering who is going to play who in the 'movie version' (it's a REALLY good book!) I'm wondering who is going to play who in the movie 'Feet of Clay'!!! Thank you all for being such caring folk - any humour here is JUST diffusion, and I know you all care deeply for Allison and her family, particularly the girls. (Any mob of people gathered together for anything at all squabble and carry on don't they? Forums....families.....workplaces................. ..............
itsthevibe and wozzle Two brilliant posts!!!
Posts like these that can bring an actual lump to my chest and a tear in my eye is why I keep reading.
Thanks you guys,what an amazing bunch of people we have on this forum.
Bayside
06-21-2012, 12:15 PM
When the Dickies come out and say, well. Olivia is just peachy, and so is Nige, and Elaine, and by golly, Gerard, well... he had his faults, but ..
Until then.. as far as I can see, they made Allisons life hell. the whole lot of them. They stay on my black list.
Culdnt agree with you more.
OldAussie
06-21-2012, 12:15 PM
Yeah true and I think when they were aware of his affair with Toni they should have stepped in and opposed it and supported Allison.
Exactly, but it appears only Gerard's happiness was always upmost in their minds, and still is. They were probably happy for him to move on and hopefully one day find someone how would provide him with a son to carry on the name they are so proud of.
Perhaps when Allison didn't produce the heir and the spare, they were happy to toss her aside. I have no idea really, it's just thoughts that run through my head.
OldAussie
06-21-2012, 12:19 PM
Honestly how do we know what they did or did not do in regards to his affair. They may have been very opposed to it and said so but at the end of the day he is a grown man and there was very little control his family would have on that situation.
True, there's always another way too look at it.
Curiousasacat
06-21-2012, 12:20 PM
I clearly missed the logs thing. What thread was it all in, or did it go over a few? Thanks.
I strongly suggest you do not go there alicat. You do not need to learn about logs, it is nothing relevant. In fact the talk of logs makes some posters ill.
(There was tremendous talk of the damage to the car possibly resulting from hitting a log,The research that went into these koppers logs was boring oh um,astounding)
Kimster
06-21-2012, 12:34 PM
FYI:
If the mods have time, we are going to start moving off topic posts to the chat room. If there's not time, they are just being removed.
Here's the link to the chat room if you don't know what I'm talking about: Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community
Curiousasacat
06-21-2012, 01:08 PM
Hi Kimster, if you haven't had a chance to read yet as you know the bail hearing was postponed. It is meant to be back in court at 10am today Brisbane time(currently it is 310am) at 630am the court list should be updated. I'll be back then to check.
Oz Jen
06-21-2012, 01:09 PM
Itsthevibe: What a tremendous post! Common sense with compassion. And I too looked at that pic of GBC cuffed in the car and saw: terror, humiliation and pain. Who amongst us hasn't done something really rotten in their lives that they regret and think of over the years, wishing it had been different? Of course noone can condone killing, but much as I hope GBC experiences the full wrath of the law, I can't help but looking at him and thinking how absolutely horrendous it must be to be in his shoes. I also find myself thinking that if they're all guilty of either assisting with the 'deed' or at the very least knowing about it, and if they were not fond of Allison (or she of them) then it would have been so hypocritical of them to be bleating to the public in the media....as someone said: they're damned if they do, and damned if they don't. It's such a horrible tragedy (including for the BCs) but I feel the most for the SHEs (girls) - innocents who will have to carry this for the rest of their lives, whatever transpires from here on in.
I laughed along with you all to defuse the tension of what was 'going down' (I was imagining each of us grabbling one of Unfoldingtruth's koppers logs and marching on the courthouse in our avatar garb with placards nailed to our logs 'JUSTICE FOR ALLISON' etc. - as a group we could be 'The Koppers', rather than the 'coppers'!!)....and I felt nervous waiting for the hearing as if I was going to give a speech in court myself. I am a bit alarmed at feeling so 'involved' when I know none of the players, but as Hawkins and others have pointed out, we are a very giving and caring society, and often feel the pain of others, whether it be through death, floods, fire etc. etc. (Cynics might say we like to 'suffer' vicariously through others, but I don't subscribe to this view!) I was trying to explain the whole story to my husband this afternoon, and honestly, you couldn't write a book of fiction that is more convoluted. But I really think that we have to oust Occam's Razor and the KISS principle, because IMO it IS going to be ugly and complicated in the end. Why? Everything has already been said before but the police were NEVER looking elsewhere for the perpetrator/s and wouldn't make an arrest without being absolutely bloody sure....it's just too big a case not to have 'enough' before arresting. As to COD - if there was blood in the car as MSM have now told us, then that had to come from somewhere on Allison. If she was strangled or drowned in the bath = no blood, unless she happened to burst a few vessels and bled. Jungle drums and smoke signals have only mentioned these two possible CODs, so where would the blood have come from? I guess if she was stabbed there would have been a great deal of blood evidence, which I don't think is the case. I don't think we can completely dismiss the excision of the hands hypothesis - it's been bandied about a number of times. The SC in court today got as far as saying there had been outrageous claims about GBC. IMO this means that there IS something very ugly or unusual in the whole business. Whether this is premeditation, the collusion of many others, the excision of hands, strangling in the bath and redressing of the body, and even the most recent 'salacious rumour' ie a 'boyfriend' (which has been alluded to a few times before - yes, I've read EVERY post godammit!), IMO SOMETHING is bizarro here......and I'm going to go MAD if we don't find out soon. I'm nothing but a sloth at the moment....just as I was going to 'retire' from WS GBC was arrested!...so on we go! I'm supposed to be editing a book for my BIL, but instead of wondering who is going to play who in the 'movie version' (it's a REALLY good book!) I'm wondering who is going to play who in the movie 'Feet of Clay'!!! Thank you all for being such caring folk - any humour here is JUST diffusion, and I know you all care deeply for Allison and her family, particularly the girls. (Any mob of people gathered together for anything at all squabble and carry on don't they? Forums....families.....workplaces................. ..............
Fantastic post! Sums up so much of my feelings and reactions to this case - perfectly.
itsthevibe
06-21-2012, 01:13 PM
I can fully understand OW fully supporting her brother if she genuinely believes he is innocent. It is quite possible that she feels the responsibility of being the primary support person for her brother even to protect her parents who (if they are not involved) may be in deep stress/ grief and confusions and this could all be potentially compounded by the possibility of age related health issues. The other brother lives overseas and is less able to help.
It is an incredibly difficult position for OW to be in and probably a lot for her to process and comprehend especially if she is innocent of any involvement or knowledge of what happened. I believe it is right for her to support her brother and her parents. GBC is entitled to a fair trial. Helping her brother through the various trials that will follow will either confirm in her mind his innocence, or help her to comprehend and accept his guilt if he in fact is guilty. I can fully understand her wanting to support her family. That is quite normal. We really don't know what has gone on behind the scenes in terms of relationships between various sides of the family even prior to this horrid crime, or even whether OW has asked GBC directly whether he was involved in Allison's demise or not. We just don't know those things. Perhaps OW has wrestled with herself about whether to help GBC or not and decided that this is the best way forward. Again we don't know.
The person my husband and I supported through a court case we actually had conversations with encouraging him that if he was guilty to just confess. But you have to be careful in these conversations to not discourage and disbelief a person, who if they are indeed innocent of what they have been charged with, is quite likely to be in a significant state of stress and anxiety and disbelief themselves about the situation that they find themselves in. If he said that he was guilty we would have still supported him through the process which in no way would have condoned what he was said to have done. We would have been supporting him not to try and get him off but to deal positively and constructively with what he was faced with.
To support this person through this court case was an incredible demand on my family and also for my husband and I personally. It was a logistical nightmare with our children. But it was something that my husband and I knew that we had to do and we don't regret our support of that person. It took us a long time to get over it. So I do really feel for the Walton's at this time especially if they have absolutely no involvement in this horrid crime. They have been through a lot and it is not likely to be over for some time. If OW genuinely believes that GBC is innocent I believe that she is displaying great courage in supporting him especially given what seems to be public perception of the case and GBC's involvement. Obviously if she is in any way involved or covering up for the family the scenario is quite different.
These are all just my humble opinions as we wait for justice to unfold for Allison.
Yes, I agree and I have been through something similar, supporting a young person, who got himself into real trouble after 'being in with the wrong crowd' and getting involved in various theft offences. It is a very big commitment but in my case I did it because I believed it was worthwhile for all concerned. Results were he received a jail sentence (which was deserved) but not as severe as it could have been (there were others involved and they more or less left him holding the bag). He's now turned his life around, so a very good outcome. But it was a huge responsiblity and I identified with OW especially when I read the email asking for money. Not in the bit about asking for money as I never did that, but clearly shes started getting involved with the case and trying to assist, and she appears to truly believe in her brothers innocence.
In my case I took on the role of managing all of the issues around our relative being in jail and the court cases etc, it is actually very necessary to have someone who organises everyone and everything as it is a huge job. One thing is that if you dont have unlimited money to pay your lawyers for as many hours as you really need, you can do some of the groundwork to make their job easier, virtually spoon feed them stuff, helpful background info and heaps more. I see OW is starting to take on this role, and she could be the helper, the responsible one who is not told the full story.
Please note, none of my empathetic comments are indicators of my views on who was involved in the murder.
BTW, I could ZZzzzz ........ Oh dear I am so tired, falling asleep at keyboard. Sorry guys! Will continue this another time ............
Kimster
06-21-2012, 01:25 PM
Hi Kimster, if you haven't had a chance to read yet as you know the bail hearing was postponed. It is meant to be back in court at 10am today Brisbane time(currently it is 310am) at 630am the court list should be updated. I'll be back then to check.
I did miss that and appreciate the recap!
:cheers:
Sooner Fan#1
06-21-2012, 01:43 PM
I did miss that and appreciate the recap!
:cheers:
I second that! Thanks Curiousasacat:rocker:!
Matilda1
06-21-2012, 02:03 PM
Been following since the beginning, but couldn't read all the posts, I'm a single mum with two boys and a dog!, so I don't know if what I have to say has been already noted. Anyway, in the news.com.au article today about the 5 police showing up at NBC-EBC's place, the photo of GBC in the article CLEARLY shows a small circular band-aid/plaster, and a distinctly visible mark under it that looks like stitches.
The previous photos have not been of sufficient quality to blow them up to see detail. The photo of GBC today in the news.com.au, and the Courier Mail articles is of a better quality, and when I made it bigger (I press the control "ctrl" key with the "+" key), the circular band-aid is very, very clearly visible. It is above GBC's right eye, towards the middle.
Such a cut would have been very obvious to the police when they showed up the morning GBC called the police to report Allison's "disappearance". I think that would have been sufficient to have a reasonable suspiscion GBC was involved and there had been some unusual event. I recall GBC's family "explaining" why he had "scratches" on his face. Because he "fell" on his head.
I have subsequently been searching all the photos to see these scratches, as others on WS have, but never felt I found anything with certainty. Either the lines on GBC's face that might have been scratches were a bit tenuous/insignificant, or the photo quality was not sufficient to blow up the photo to see the detail. Today, this photo in this article finally clearly showed me what must have been a deep cut to his head. I'm not sure it looks like it was a scratch made by someone else (doesn't seem too long, but does look deep). IMO, looks more like the result of a fall, or something hard hitting his head. Perhaps, IMO, he fell when he was carrying her body down the stairs of the house, or getting in / out of the boot/trunk of the vehicle. All totally speculation. But at least now I finally see the cut.
The round band-aid/plaster is well camoflaged. Wonder if there is a bit of make up? JMO. But it is clearly visible.
Another night without sleep...and it is almost morning. Searching again through WS and et al, looking into the depths of evil and asking why, how could it have come to this. bless you ABC and girls. I hate to see human dignity fall to such depths, and for these three young girls to be thrust into it all at such an innocent age.
I already dread seeing ABC's life dragged through the proverbially mud in the endless legal proceedings to come. Seeing her in the creek mud was enough. Damn, why can't he confess. jmho. Time to go to bed!
It wouldn't at all surprise me if at some stage down the track she does the old 60mins interview...to add $$$s to the coffer.
And then they surely wouldn't be able to complain about the media any more!
The media's reported that GBC announced to staff (and his parents were staff) that Allison had learned of his affair with TM, after which TM left, allegedly
That's pretty poor behaviour from a business principal, scoutmaster, husband, father, head of chamber of commerce, etc. and I suspect the parents would have put OW in the loop re: events. What reason would they have not to tell OW? What reason would Allison or even GBC have to not mention it to OW, seeing they were all such a close family unit, even working together
So, not only would the Pastor Walton congregation and friends be giving money to a possible murderer, but also someone who had been cheating on his wife for a long time. Much more worthy charities I would say!
Curiousasacat
06-21-2012, 04:04 PM
I second that! Thanks Curiousasacat:rocker:!
Thank you and you're welcome :blushing:
Curiousasacat
06-21-2012, 04:05 PM
Still nothing on the daily law list in regard to the case but there was this twitter-
Alison Ariotti @AlisonAriotti
No charges have yet been laid over yesterday's bomb hoax at the BNE Supreme Court. #BadenClay bail hearing to resume this morning.
https://twitter.com/AlisonAriotti and
Alison Ariotti @AlisonAriotti
Take 2 for Gerard Baden-Clay's bail hearing today.. After a dramatic bomb scare closed court yesterday. Details @thetodayshow
Curiousasacat
06-21-2012, 04:07 PM
Been following since the beginning, but couldn't read all the posts, I'm a single mum with two boys and a dog!, so I don't know if what I have to say has been already noted. Anyway, in the news.com.au article today about the 5 police showing up at NBC-EBC's place, the photo of GBC in the article CLEARLY shows a small circular band-aid/plaster, and a distinctly visible mark under it that looks like stitches.
The previous photos have not been of sufficient quality to blow them up to see detail. The photo of GBC today in the news.com.au, and the Courier Mail articles is of a better quality, and when I made it bigger (I press the control "ctrl" key with the "+" key), the circular band-aid is very, very clearly visible. It is above GBC's right eye, towards the middle.
Such a cut would have been very obvious to the police when they showed up the morning GBC called the police to report Allison's "disappearance". I think that would have been sufficient to have a reasonable suspiscion GBC was involved and there had been some unusual event. I recall GBC's family "explaining" why he had "scratches" on his face. Because he "fell" on his head.
I have subsequently been searching all the photos to see these scratches, as others on WS have, but never felt I found anything with certainty. Either the lines on GBC's face that might have been scratches were a bit tenuous/insignificant, or the photo quality was not sufficient to blow up the photo to see the detail. Today, this photo in this article finally clearly showed me what must have been a deep cut to his head. I'm not sure it looks like it was a scratch made by someone else (doesn't seem too long, but does look deep). IMO, looks more like the result of a fall, or something hard hitting his head. Perhaps, IMO, he fell when he was carrying her body down the stairs of the house, or getting in / out of the boot/trunk of the vehicle. All totally speculation. But at least now I finally see the cut.
The round band-aid/plaster is well camoflaged. Wonder if there is a bit of make up? JMO. But it is clearly visible.
Another night without sleep...and it is almost morning. Searching again through WS and et al, looking into the depths of evil and asking why, how could it have come to this. bless you ABC and girls. I hate to see human dignity fall to such depths, and for these three young girls to be thrust into it all at such an innocent age.
I already dread seeing ABC's life dragged through the proverbially mud in the endless legal proceedings to come. Seeing her in the creek mud was enough. Damn, why can't he confess. jmho. Time to go to bed!
Hi Matilda, Interesting. I looked and looked and zoomed but still can't see it : (
SapphireSteel
06-21-2012, 04:09 PM
I did read the last few pages, apologies if this is already posted but I couldn't see it. Personally I'm wondering if this had anything to do with the bomb threat, the timing seems a bit suspect IMO -
DETECTIVES investigating the alleged murder of Allison Baden-Clay returned last night to her in-laws' home where they conducted further searches of their property.
The Courier-Mail can reveal the car owned by Gerard Baden-Clay's parents was searched. Police rifled through the boot and back seat of the couple's silver Holden Statesman about 6pm.
After Nigel and Elaine Baden-Clay walked their dog, they were intercepted by five detectives who spent about an hour with them, mostly inside the house, only coming out briefly about halfway through with Mr Baden-Clay to search the vehicle before leaving about 6.20pm.
The couple's daughter, Olivia Walton, was the only family member to attend the bail application hearing, which had to be rescheduled yesterday after a bomb threat. The hearing will continue today.
more at link
Read more: http://www.news.com.au/national/police-search-gerard-baden-clays-parents-car/story-e6frfkvr-1226404924501#ixzz1ySbXr9Nb
Barram5
06-21-2012, 04:11 PM
The Baden Clay Seniors house searched again last night
http://www.news.com.au/national/police-search-gerard-baden-clays-parents-car/story-e6frfkvr-1226404924501
Kimster
06-21-2012, 04:16 PM
The Baden Clay Seniors house searched again last night
http://www.news.com.au/national/police-search-gerard-baden-clays-parents-car/story-e6frfkvr-1226404924501
I really hope the parents didn't do a cover up. :tears: That will break my heart!
Barram5
06-21-2012, 04:16 PM
New search starts at BCs house
http://video.couriermail.com.au/2248476165/New-search-begins
Kimster
06-21-2012, 04:23 PM
New search starts at BCs house
http://video.couriermail.com.au/2248476165/New-search-begins
Wow! I wonder if GBC said something??? This is so different than most of the cases I've followed - having a search at this stage of the game.
Curiousasacat
06-21-2012, 04:34 PM
If the hearing is in fact going ahead today I can't understand why the case is not listed??
http://www.courts.qld.gov.au/__external/CourtsLawList/Brisbane.htm
kalamityk
06-21-2012, 04:52 PM
Hi Matilda, Interesting. I looked and looked and zoomed but still can't see it : (
I can see it - definitely got make up over it :moo:
Oz Jen
06-21-2012, 04:52 PM
If the hearing is in fact going ahead today I can't understand why the case is not listed??
http://www.courts.qld.gov.au/__external/CourtsLawList/Brisbane.htm
Is it possible they're still uploading the info - the cases so far only indicate those up til 9.30am?
Curiousasacat
06-21-2012, 05:00 PM
Is it possible they're still uploading the info - the cases so far only indicate those up til 9.30am?
I have a feeling it's suppressed or in fact not going ahead today. Of course I could be wrong.
loveandlite2012
06-21-2012, 05:06 PM
Yes, another very relevant perspective here. That's what is so confusing to me. On the one hand I can understand the concept of supporting ones family no matter what, and going in to bat for them. And i can sympathise to some extent with any of them who did not have any involvement or knowledge of Allisons murder. But if the family actually supported TM being in the picture, well it's just not nice. Someone posted here when this was mentioned ages ago that there was a photo of GBC & TM together, looking very much the couple, captioned simply 'Gerard & Toni' on the Facebook page of OW and of Nigelaine. And Nigelaine worked in the C21 office. I'm starting to get a picture that Allison really had some huge crosses to bear and that despite the joy of her 3 daughters she may well have been very troubled.
I was thinking the same things this morning, what kind of life did Allison have marrying into this family. I'm sure at first it was all wonderful, but as the years went on Allison would have struggled with this lot, all of what we have seen and heard since she went missing just makes my heart feel so sad for Allison at how hard it must have been for her to deal with this family and their betrayal of her, but also she must have been horrified over the years with their actions and disloyalty to her, all whilst she is doing her best at being a good mother and wife, to get no loyalty in return. It makes me feel ill to my stomach. And if she had depression(which I'm starting to think, why wouldn't she, I would) they are to blame for it.
I don't know what I think about OW anymore, is she being so supportive with this whole bail thing, because she is most likely the one who police spoke to the day before the arrest and voiced her concerns about his wellbeing, and now she has the big guilts on? Is she just a loyal, supportive sister? Or is it that she is also involved in this crime somehow, so in a way protecting her own arse so GBC keeps quiet. I don't know.:banghead:
Looking forward to another arrest, hope it's sooner rather then later!!! :jail:
Justice for Allison today, and every day through the trial. Let's hope this Judicial system of ours gives Allison the voice that I feel has been quietened for a long time before she went missing by those responsible for her death.
Curiousasacat
06-21-2012, 05:07 PM
This should "impress" some of you. Courier mail's story has a link where you can donate.
(Unreal IMO)
"Earlier this week, Mrs Walton and husband Ian, sent an email to family and friends urging them to donate to a bank account to help fund her brother's legal defence."
http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/queensland/police-search-gerard-baden-clays-parents-car/story-e6freoof-1226404830587
Curiousasacat
06-21-2012, 05:12 PM
Supreme court still in lock down???
HUH??
Michelle Tapper @Michelle_Tapper
Supreme Court still in lockdown this morning after yesterday's bomb scare. Baden-Clay's bail application still expected to go ahead.
BreakingNews
06-21-2012, 05:20 PM
Wow! I wonder if GBC said something??? This is so different than most of the cases I've followed - having a search at this stage of the game.
Yeah, something new must have come to light. They've searched there before.
Crime and punishment
06-21-2012, 05:36 PM
even in Olivias begging letter for funds, she just wipes Gerard CLEAN as a whistle. yet it is public knowledge, confirmed by the police, yet Olivia doesnt mention this in her haste to say that Gerard 'deserves the best'..
well. why does he?
an Adulterous brother.. ??
and her a pastors wife?
what doesnt add up here?
Maybe it's a case of 'hate the sin , love the sinner' -that is the way Christians are supposed to think ... IMO.
Rational
06-21-2012, 05:42 PM
I've not been to any of those barbaric countries you mention...have no desire at all to do so although I have seen plenty online, all of which I wish I hadn't seen....it's horrific stuff....like you, I condemn it....just as I condemn the barbaric murder of Allison.
Whatever happened at the courts today which delayed proceedings, I'm sure police will get to the bottom of it & whoever was responsible, probably some tosspot from the backblocks of nowhere, will face the consequences..... perhaps even in the same court building he/she/they disrupted.
In your previous post you said you were ashamed to be Australian today because of that. I wasn't ashamed to be an Australian today....I'm ashamed of the human species that allows these barbaric murders to happen in the first place.
What cheers me though is the fact there are all these good people, not only on this forum but countless other forums, of this same human species who continually speak out loud against these barbaric acts ....& that makes me damn proud to be an Aussie.
Marly
I read your post when I woke up in the middle of the night, but was too groggy to respond. Thank you for your post. One sad/bad or mad person cannot define or undermine what is our strength and what is good.
Crime and punishment
06-21-2012, 05:44 PM
So, not only would the Pastor Walton congregation and friends be giving money to a possible murderer, but also someone who had been cheating on his wife for a long time. Much more worthy charities I would say!
I will mention again- the church where IW is the Pastoral care Pastor HAS NOT been asked to contribute to the bail. The email was sent to the Waltons' relatives and friends- not the general church population.
ozazure
06-21-2012, 05:56 PM
Been following since the beginning, but couldn't read all the posts, I'm a single mum with two boys and a dog!, so I don't know if what I have to say has been already noted. Anyway, in the news.com.au article today about the 5 police showing up at NBC-EBC's place, the photo of GBC in the article CLEARLY shows a small circular band-aid/plaster, and a distinctly visible mark under it that looks like stitches.
The previous photos have not been of sufficient quality to blow them up to see detail. The photo of GBC today in the news.com.au, and the Courier Mail articles is of a better quality, and when I made it bigger (I press the control "ctrl" key with the "+" key), the circular band-aid is very, very clearly visible. It is above GBC's right eye, towards the middle.
Such a cut would have been very obvious to the police when they showed up the morning GBC called the police to report Allison's "disappearance". I think that would have been sufficient to have a reasonable suspiscion GBC was involved and there had been some unusual event. I recall GBC's family "explaining" why he had "scratches" on his face. Because he "fell" on his head.
I have subsequently been searching all the photos to see these scratches, as others on WS have, but never felt I found anything with certainty. Either the lines on GBC's face that might have been scratches were a bit tenuous/insignificant, or the photo quality was not sufficient to blow up the photo to see the detail. Today, this photo in this article finally clearly showed me what must have been a deep cut to his head. I'm not sure it looks like it was a scratch made by someone else (doesn't seem too long, but does look deep). IMO, looks more like the result of a fall, or something hard hitting his head. Perhaps, IMO, he fell when he was carrying her body down the stairs of the house, or getting in / out of the boot/trunk of the vehicle. All totally speculation. But at least now I finally see the cut.
The round band-aid/plaster is well camoflaged. Wonder if there is a bit of make up? JMO. But it is clearly visible.
Another night without sleep...and it is almost morning. Searching again through WS and et al, looking into the depths of evil and asking why, how could it have come to this. bless you ABC and girls. I hate to see human dignity fall to such depths, and for these three young girls to be thrust into it all at such an innocent age.
I already dread seeing ABC's life dragged through the proverbially mud in the endless legal proceedings to come. Seeing her in the creek mud was enough. Damn, why can't he confess. jmho. Time to go to bed!
I read this quite skeptically but I have gone and had a look and I think you are right!! Here is my enhanced version of this image
http://resources2.news.com.au/images/2012/06/01/1226341/930050-gerard-baden-clay.gif
Rational
06-21-2012, 05:57 PM
This case is getting so confusing :banghead: :banghead: My partner is still saying that he thinks there was more involved than just GBC. Like i said in one of the threads my partner said IF anyone else was involved he was hoping GBC would actually tell them. Does this case seem very confusing to anyone else? Or is it just me ?
Dear Angel
I think for all of us on WS regarding Allison it is very hard to explain all we know and learn from reading all posts to those of us near and dear. At times when I say something about it to someone they look at me like 'are you still on about this, get a life!'.
I believe that the best we can do is trust our own intelligence, our own moral compass, and insights gleaned from reading and testing them against other posters and our own thoughts.
I am sure if you go back to your strength you will have your own thoughts and views that don't need to be moderated or checked back with others. Go back to your own gut instinct and test it out, and throw it out here. We love to hear what you have to say.
whitechapel
06-21-2012, 05:59 PM
in the news.com.au article today about the 5 police showing up at NBC-EBC's place, the photo of GBC in the article CLEARLY shows a small circular band-aid/plaster, and a distinctly visible mark under it that looks like stitches.
IMO...
I saw it.
I zoomed in and eventually saw a circle with three bumps underneath.
After zooming out to the normal sized picture, and knowing where to look, it was also visible.
Curiousasacat
06-21-2012, 06:01 PM
Michelle Tapper @Michelle_Tapper
Sniffer dogs r combing the Supreme Court and extra police r on duty after yesterday's bomb scare. Baden-Clay bail application at 10am.
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Curiousasacat
06-21-2012, 06:02 PM
I read this quite skeptically but I have gone and had a look and I think you are right!! Here is my enhanced version of this image
http://resources2.news.com.au/images/2012/06/01/1226341/930050-gerard-baden-clay.gif
Thanks for the circle Oz, I was not looking in the right area.
Nice job. :rocker:
Could be ringworm??? LOL
Strangeworld
06-21-2012, 06:05 PM
I don't think it's a circular bandaid. To me, it looks more like when you rest your head on something and it leaves an imprint - like a watch face. i.e. he might have been resting his head on his arm and it left the imprint. But I can see why some are seeing a bandaid. Who knows!
Meant to also say it could just be a wrinkle. And those little bumps appear on other parts of his face, so whether they are injuries, skin abnormalities, etc, they are not isolated to just that circular pattern on his forehead.
spratsmum
06-21-2012, 06:06 PM
Appreciate all you've said and Thanked your post
There's the other side of the coin too, of course
There's a third sibling, a brother. He's remained out of the fray. He hasn't chosen to draw attention to himself
It may be and probably is, that he is working assiduously on GBC's behalf, but he's chosen to be discreet
OW could, had she chosen, have gone the same route and her privacy would have been respected, as is her and GBC's brother
She chose otherwise. She put herself in the spotlight
GBC brother lives in Canada doesn't he? So his dynamics in the family would be different.
OW is like most daughters and trying to hold it together for everyone. She looks really overwrought in the photos in the Courier Mail this morning. She has so much on her plate, her husband, her children, her parents and her brother without anything else. I did pray for her last night, I hope she finds some peace somewhere and somehow.
Oz Jen
06-21-2012, 06:08 PM
Poster on another site says they were in court yesterday. Remarked on odd behaviour of OW. Said that in contrast to the few published photos, OW giggled most of the time and appeared immature. Please note this is only the poster's own opinion, it came from another site. I'm merely re-stating.
Rational
06-21-2012, 06:08 PM
If he intends to have any sort of relationship with his three daughters, he'd better not ever speak badly of their mother, in court or out
Agree Laser! But he has already let his actions and words speak very loud.
He flaunted his affairs and even spoke about them at the Brookfield show after her death.
BrissyLass
06-21-2012, 06:12 PM
Michelle Tapper @Michelle_Tapper
Sniffer dogs r combing the Supreme Court and extra police r on duty after yesterday's bomb scare. Baden-Clay bail application at 10am.
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Thank you for the tweets, they are much appreciated while I am chained to my desk. I walked past the courts about 15 minutes ago on my way to work and all is fairly quiet there at the moment....news crews/media are set up and there were a few police around the courtyard....lets hope this morning's hearing goes ahead with no unneccesary dramas
Fuskier
06-21-2012, 06:12 PM
...In your previous post you said you were ashamed to be Australian today because of that. I wasn't ashamed to be an Australian today....I'm ashamed of the human species that allows these barbaric murders to happen in the first place.
What cheers me though is the fact there are all these good people, not only on this forum but countless other forums, of this same human species who continually speak out loud against these barbaric acts ....& that makes me damn proud to be an Aussie.
We are fortunate in this country because we have Laws which protect civil society and these need to be respected by all who settle in this land. HAWKINS's comments seem broadly pitched at Australia and what being Australian is all about and the importance of having respect for our judiciary. So important. MARLYWINGS's comments speak about the everyday ordinary person, like us on this thread and other sites, who speak out about these horrible crimes by other human beings. Equally important. Unfortunately, there are some among us who go against 'authority'. IMO it is important to speak out against those who commit these crimes against other human beings. It is life affirming and validates a civil society. We need to see that justice is seen to be done. As ACTUS REUS said, we need transparent legal proceedings to have faith in our Judiciary to have a just society. Whoever called in a bomb threat to our Supreme Court has committed a crime against society and should be held to account. IMO
Rational
06-21-2012, 06:16 PM
Now, I didn't really expect GBC's lawyer (Peter Davis, SC) to say in his opening remarks that the Crown has a very sound case and a strong likelihood of success at trial, but...
...prior to the bomb threat, he did say that the allegations were "extraordinary" (I think) and that the Crown had a "weak case".
Before the security scare, Mr Davis had been responding to a police affidavit which detailed why the prosecution said Baden-Clay should not be granted bail.
"An examination of it will demonstrate the weakness of the case against my client," he said.
"(And) the extraordinary nature of some of the allegations being made."
Read more: http://www.news.com.au/national/security-threat-at-baden-clays-bail-hearing/story-e6frfkvr-1226403669080#ixzz1yR22aL16
I understand the defense attorney will try to put the evidence in the poorest light possible, but for a highly respected lawyer to describe the evidence as "weak", when that evidence is going to come out in the course of that very same hearing, surely means the case against GBC is not water-tight.
Hi gmws
Were you in court yesterday?
I have heard vey respected barristers using those very words in cases that are very strong. I do not for one moment believe this. They are getting paid to try and take apart the prosecution's case and the opening statements are always very floury and strongly worded.
Wow! I wonder if GBC said something??? This is so different than most of the cases I've followed - having a search at this stage of the game.
That's what my hubby thought too; that GBC has said something in remand that has alerted police. The timing of it is a bit strange i.e. on the same day as the bail hearing.
whitechapel
06-21-2012, 06:16 PM
This MSM article includes video of the car search.
http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/queensland/police-search-gerard-baden-clays-parents-car/story-e6freoof-1226404830587
Been following since the beginning, but couldn't read all the posts, I'm a single mum with two boys and a dog!, so I don't know if what I have to say has been already noted. Anyway, in the news.com.au article today about the 5 police showing up at NBC-EBC's place, the photo of GBC in the article CLEARLY shows a small circular band-aid/plaster, and a distinctly visible mark under it that looks like stitches.
The previous photos have not been of sufficient quality to blow them up to see detail. The photo of GBC today in the news.com.au, and the Courier Mail articles is of a better quality, and when I made it bigger (I press the control "ctrl" key with the "+" key), the circular band-aid is very, very clearly visible. It is above GBC's right eye, towards the middle.
Such a cut would have been very obvious to the police when they showed up the morning GBC called the police to report Allison's "disappearance". I think that would have been sufficient to have a reasonable suspiscion GBC was involved and there had been some unusual event. I recall GBC's family "explaining" why he had "scratches" on his face. Because he "fell" on his head.
I have subsequently been searching all the photos to see these scratches, as others on WS have, but never felt I found anything with certainty. Either the lines on GBC's face that might have been scratches were a bit tenuous/insignificant, or the photo quality was not sufficient to blow up the photo to see the detail. Today, this photo in this article finally clearly showed me what must have been a deep cut to his head. I'm not sure it looks like it was a scratch made by someone else (doesn't seem too long, but does look deep). IMO, looks more like the result of a fall, or something hard hitting his head. Perhaps, IMO, he fell when he was carrying her body down the stairs of the house, or getting in / out of the boot/trunk of the vehicle. All totally speculation. But at least now I finally see the cut.
The round band-aid/plaster is well camoflaged. Wonder if there is a bit of make up? JMO. But it is clearly visible.
Another night without sleep...and it is almost morning. Searching again through WS and et al, looking into the depths of evil and asking why, how could it have come to this. bless you ABC and girls. I hate to see human dignity fall to such depths, and for these three young girls to be thrust into it all at such an innocent age.
I already dread seeing ABC's life dragged through the proverbially mud in the endless legal proceedings to come. Seeing her in the creek mud was enough. Damn, why can't he confess. jmho. Time to go to bed!
Hi, yes I can see what appears to be a plaster - I see a more rectangular one with curved ends on the right side of forehead below hairline.
Curiousasacat
06-21-2012, 06:19 PM
I have to go and get busy for an hour or so. I will be back close to 10am and will endeavor to keep providing the twitter feeds. See you all soon x
spratsmum
06-21-2012, 06:19 PM
I just had a thought... a dangerous happening my family reckons whan that happens to me.
Was wondering if during the trial, not only will Gerard's dirty washing be dragged into it (as has already been done), but am wondering if attempts will be made to pull apart and bring up issues about Allison we may not know about.
Of course that will happen BlueBottle.
Yeah true and I think when they were aware of his affair with Toni they should have stepped in and opposed it and supported Allison.
How do we know that they didn't in the early days?
Oz Jen
06-21-2012, 06:25 PM
There may be some who have not read this....GBC's 'take' on success and happiness.
http://expertrealestate.blogspot.com.au/2008/02/making-history.html
This MSM article includes video of the car search.
http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/queensland/police-search-gerard-baden-clays-parents-car/story-e6freoof-1226404830587
Thanks for this link whitechapel - good on you! I looked last night and came up with nought!
Now here is a scenario - I posted the other day what if GBC did not use his own cars to allegedly dispose of Allison?
What if the reason that NBC was at the bus stop with his head in his hands (as was reported by another member here) was due to his son having dropped him off there and gone on to the bridge alone with Allison in the back of his father's car?
What if NBC's car was used as the vehicle to allegedly transport Allison to her final resting place?
Thoughts...........
spratsmum
06-21-2012, 06:39 PM
Warning this post may offend and upset some people, so please do not read if you feel you will affected by it
wozzle asked last night about where blood would have if the two probable causes of death are correct.
I have considered this myself Wozzle and this is the opinion I have formed, and please do not read if you feel something I say underneath may offend you, I have wondered how GBC could have taken her body from the house to the car particularly if he was the only person involved, the only scenario I can come up with is, the GBC dragged her body from the house and then down the front stairs, The weight of her head falling down those stairs would cause some injury to the corpse and may be the cause for blood to be found, even if the cause of death is not something that involves bleeding.
My apologies once again I know that image is unpleasant and I hesitated to post, but I do think it answers Wozzles question.
marlywings
06-21-2012, 06:44 PM
Thanks for this link whitechapel - good on you! I looked last night and came up with nought!
Now here is a scenario - I posted the other day what if GBC did not use his own cars to allegedly dispose of Allison?
What if the reason that NBC was at the bus stop with his head in his hands (as was reported by another member here) was due to his son having dropped him off there and gone on to the bridge alone with Allison in the back of his father's car?
What if NBC's car was used as the vehicle to allegedly transport Allison to her final resting place?
Thoughts...........
I think if NBC's car was in any way involved it would have been in impound around 8 or 9 weeks ago....or from the time police raided NBC's house.
Blood in the Captiva was said to be found...I think that is the car which was used to transport Allison's body.
marlywings
06-21-2012, 06:48 PM
Warning this post may offend and upset some people, so please do not read if you feel you will affected by it
wozzle asked last night about where blood would have if the two probable causes of death are correct.
I have considered this myself Wozzle and this is the opinion I have formed, and please do not read if you feel something I say underneath may offend you, I have wondered how GBC could have taken her body from the house to the car particularly if he was the only person involved, the only scenario I can come up with is, the GBC dragged her body from the house and then down the front stairs, The weight of her head falling down those stairs would cause some injury to the corpse and may be the cause for blood to be found, even if the cause of death is not something that involves bleeding.
My apologies once again I know that image is unpleasant and I hesitated to post, but I do think it answers Wozzles question.
I don't think we'll ever really know the reason for the blood until more info is released. I've also wondered if perhaps he punched her in the face which resulted in nose bleed...or maybe pushed her down the stairs. I think there's quite a few different scenarios which could have happened that night but until we learn more it's really just all guessing.
I think if NBC's car was in any way involved it would have been in impound around 8 or 9 weeks ago....or from the time police raided NBC's house.
Blood in the Captiva was said to be found...I think that is the car which was used to transport Allison's body.
Yes I remember reading that about the Captiva. However, is that fact - do we have a link from the msm? Just asking Marly as often on here things get blurred over the weeks. I can't remember seeing a link to the blood in Captiva. The QPS still have it impounded however.
What are your thoughts on them searching NBC's car?
spratsmum
06-21-2012, 06:49 PM
Thanks for this link whitechapel - good on you! I looked last night and came up with nought!
Now here is a scenario - I posted the other day what if GBC did not use his own cars to allegedly dispose of Allison?
What if the reason that NBC was at the bus stop with his head in his hands (as was reported by another member here) was due to his son having dropped him off there and gone on to the bridge alone with Allison in the back of his father's car?
What if NBC's car was used as the vehicle to allegedly transport Allison to her final resting place?
Thoughts...........
The image I have sometimes of GBC is this - after Allison was killed his actions, if we are to believe some of our ideas, become like someoen who suddenly remember and puts together the scenarios form lots of crimes shows.
Your post here Mani, gives me a picture of a flapping Gerard, suddenly ringing his Dad for the umpteenth time that evening, "No, changed my mind, I will take your car, police are sure to check mine for DNA", I will meet you at the bus stop". The meeting around the corner incident with OW reminds me of this as well,"They won't see us, if we meet around the corner, you get the car", the put on voice and the over acting of the TV interview is another example, the business as usual, the car accident they go on and on. He is becoming in my mind a cross between someone on "CSI" and "Midsommer Murders". perhaps with a bit of "The Bill" for good measure.
Sheerluck Holmes
06-21-2012, 06:51 PM
I think if NBC's car was in any way involved it would have been in impound around 8 or 9 weeks ago....or from the time police raided NBC's house.
Blood in the Captiva was said to be found...I think that is the car which was used to transport Allison's body.
I think the search has got to have something to do with the bomb hoax too coincidental to me.
marlywings
06-21-2012, 06:55 PM
Yes I remember reading that about the Captiva. However, is that fact - do we have a link from the msm? Just asking Marly as often on here things get blurred over the weeks. I can't remember seeing a link to the blood in Captiva. The QPS still have it impounded however.
What are your thoughts on them searching NBC's car?
Blood in the Captiva was reported in tv news media the night of GBC's arrest.....it was when they mentioned the $900,000 life insurance policy. IF the video link is still there I'll post it.
We don't know if the Captiva is still in impound or not.
marlywings
06-21-2012, 06:57 PM
I think the search has got to have something to do with the bomb hoax too coincidental to me.
Yes I agree...something to do with yesterday for sure....I still can't get over the FIVE detectives being sent in.
Oz Jen
06-21-2012, 06:59 PM
Warning this post may offend and upset some people, so please do not read if you feel you will affected by it
wozzle asked last night about where blood would have if the two probable causes of death are correct.
I have considered this myself Wozzle and this is the opinion I have formed, and please do not read if you feel something I say underneath may offend you, I have wondered how GBC could have taken her body from the house to the car particularly if he was the only person involved, the only scenario I can come up with is, the GBC dragged her body from the house and then down the front stairs, The weight of her head falling down those stairs would cause some injury to the corpse and may be the cause for blood to be found, even if the cause of death is not something that involves bleeding.
My apologies once again I know that image is unpleasant and I hesitated to post, but I do think it answers Wozzles question.
This makes sense. What has me confused, though, is QPS stating there were no visible signs of foul play when ABC's body was discovered. Ok, let's face it, I'm just plain confused about this whole tragic case! The more that happens, the more I'm just not sure what happened.
marlywings
06-21-2012, 07:00 PM
CC if you're reading...some days are diamonds...some days are stone...just have to take the good with the bad....hope to see you soon :)
J-Diggety
06-21-2012, 07:04 PM
Been following since the beginning, but couldn't read all the posts, I'm a single mum with two boys and a dog!, so I don't know if what I have to say has been already noted. Anyway, in the news.com.au article today about the 5 police showing up at NBC-EBC's place, the photo of GBC in the article CLEARLY shows a small circular band-aid/plaster, and a distinctly visible mark under it that looks like stitches.
The previous photos have not been of sufficient quality to blow them up to see detail. The photo of GBC today in the news.com.au, and the Courier Mail articles is of a better quality, and when I made it bigger (I press the control "ctrl" key with the "+" key), the circular band-aid is very, very clearly visible. It is above GBC's right eye, towards the middle.
Such a cut would have been very obvious to the police when they showed up the morning GBC called the police to report Allison's "disappearance". I think that would have been sufficient to have a reasonable suspiscion GBC was involved and there had been some unusual event. I recall GBC's family "explaining" why he had "scratches" on his face. Because he "fell" on his head.
I have subsequently been searching all the photos to see these scratches, as others on WS have, but never felt I found anything with certainty. Either the lines on GBC's face that might have been scratches were a bit tenuous/insignificant, or the photo quality was not sufficient to blow up the photo to see the detail. Today, this photo in this article finally clearly showed me what must have been a deep cut to his head. I'm not sure it looks like it was a scratch made by someone else (doesn't seem too long, but does look deep). IMO, looks more like the result of a fall, or something hard hitting his head. Perhaps, IMO, he fell when he was carrying her body down the stairs of the house, or getting in / out of the boot/trunk of the vehicle. All totally speculation. But at least now I finally see the cut.
The round band-aid/plaster is well camoflaged. Wonder if there is a bit of make up? JMO. But it is clearly visible.
Another night without sleep...and it is almost morning. Searching again through WS and et al, looking into the depths of evil and asking why, how could it have come to this. bless you ABC and girls. I hate to see human dignity fall to such depths, and for these three young girls to be thrust into it all at such an innocent age.
I already dread seeing ABC's life dragged through the proverbially mud in the endless legal proceedings to come. Seeing her in the creek mud was enough. Damn, why can't he confess. jmho. Time to go to bed!
The car accident from early on in the piece maybe?
Sooner Fan#1
06-21-2012, 07:06 PM
What time is it over there? I'm showing a little after 9:00 A.M.
Sooner Fan#1
06-21-2012, 07:07 PM
The car accident from early on in the piece maybe?.
I have said from the beginning "the cars will tell the story" :what:
What time is it over there? I'm showing a little after 9:00 A.M.
Hi Sooner, yes it is 9:10am
J-Diggety
06-21-2012, 07:15 PM
What time is it over there? I'm showing a little after 9:00 A.M.
0915 as i type this
wakeskate
06-21-2012, 07:17 PM
What has me confused, though, is QPS stating there were no visible signs of foul play when ABC's body was discovered.
To me that meant no gun shots, stab wounds or visible trauma from a car accident, also that the body wasn't bound at all.
Sooner Fan#1
06-21-2012, 07:17 PM
Thanks guys! :rocker:
BrissyLass
06-21-2012, 07:18 PM
my gut feelings are telling me that there is more to come/more arrests/more revelations and IMO the QPS have the senior BC's at the top of ther list of "things to do today"
Warning this post may offend and upset some people, so please do not read if you feel you will affected by it
wozzle asked last night about where blood would have if the two probable causes of death are correct.
I have considered this myself Wozzle and this is the opinion I have formed, and please do not read if you feel something I say underneath may offend you, I have wondered how GBC could have taken her body from the house to the car particularly if he was the only person involved, the only scenario I can come up with is, the GBC dragged her body from the house and then down the front stairs, The weight of her head falling down those stairs would cause some injury to the corpse and may be the cause for blood to be found, even if the cause of death is not something that involves bleeding.
My apologies once again I know that image is unpleasant and I hesitated to post, but I do think it answers Wozzles question.
We can see the stairs at the front of the house but I wonder if like a lot of houses, there is a slope to the block and the back of the house is level with the ground there?
Keentoknow
06-21-2012, 07:19 PM
Hi Sooner, yes it is 9:10am
Hi everyone. Wonder what today will bring? Got my crackers ready.
:jail:
peony88
06-21-2012, 07:21 PM
I have been following this case since day one as well.....
I have always wondered why dogs were not used to find Allison?
Furthermore, why don't they hook up GBC and his Dad to a lie detector?
Indromum
06-21-2012, 07:25 PM
BOMB THREAT? Hello...I have been travelling all of yesterday and just logged on in Malaysia. I can't believe I missed the whole kerfuffle yesterday!!!! And I haven't the time to read everyones posts....
Is the bail application going ahead today?
Flinders
06-21-2012, 07:25 PM
GBC parent's have left their Kenmore home. Channel Nine News https://twitter.com/#!/sophie_walsh9
I have been following this case since day one as well.....
I have always wondered why dogs were not used to find Allison?
Furthermore, why don't they hook up GBC and his Dad to a lie detector?
I wondered also re the dogs.
They can't even make GBC give a statement let alone do a LDT. The lawyers would never allow it!
marlywings
06-21-2012, 07:27 PM
This Channel9 video says..."blood allegedly found in a four wheel drive owned by the couple". (Channel7 was the one, I think, mentioned the blood & life insurance policy...will look for that vid later)
Search on the site for "Baden-Clay behind bars"
http://channelnine.ninemsn.com.au/video
In that same video it also mentions...allegedly police were going to arrest him on three separate occasions but they held off......wonder when those times were.
...also spotted in the video, towards the end, at the bridge, what looks like our good man Danny Boyle.
Sooner Fan#1
06-21-2012, 07:29 PM
Hi everyone. Wonder what today will bring? Got my crackers ready.
:jail:
I'm ready! :rollercoaster::popcorn::please::waiting:
Aunty
06-21-2012, 07:31 PM
iPad in Coles doing groceries .
Don't want to miss any posts.
I am praying the accused stays where he is ,
or at least the Prosecutor gets exactly what he wants. Fingers and toes crossedxxx
Damn those expensive b..dy l aw y e r. S.
Oz Jen
06-21-2012, 07:31 PM
BOMB THREAT? Hello...I have been travelling all of yesterday and just logged on in Malaysia. I can't believe I missed the whole kerfuffle yesterday!!!! And I haven't the time to read everyones posts....
Is the bail application going ahead today?
And quite a kerfuffle it was! Looks like its all systems 'go' for this morning...Baden-Clays have just left their home.
http://instagr.am/p/MJ3LIDCvrU/
spratsmum
06-21-2012, 07:32 PM
GBC parent's have left their Kenmore home. Channel Nine News https://twitter.com/#!/sophie_walsh9
Again? so where were they yesterday? In the barrister chamber perhaps or some room in the court complex?
Does anyone know where OW is staying, as she never seems to be mentioned as leaving her parents home to attend court.
marlywings
06-21-2012, 07:32 PM
BOMB THREAT? Hello...I have been travelling all of yesterday and just logged on in Malaysia. I can't believe I missed the whole kerfuffle yesterday!!!! And I haven't the time to read everyones posts....
Is the bail application going ahead today?
Yes full steam ahead to 10.00am...1/2hr to go...
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