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JBean
06-20-2012, 12:27 PM
Please discuss the possible location of the missing head here.

pannekoek
06-20-2012, 01:30 PM
Lin Jun’s missing head made me think of the Moors murders.

Ian Brady still refuses to disclose where he buried the body of little Keith Bennet. A psychiatrist said that that was a way for him to maintain power/control over the victim, his family and the rest of society.

I wonder if LM may have hidden the head. Its symbolicly the most important part of a body, with heart and penis (for men ?) following. Hiding a head is much easier compared to a whole body, especially if you dont have a car.

Since LM doesnt seem to be able to get an original idea of his own he might have copied the idea. It’s the ultimate way of keeping power and control over everyone, even when caught.

(Some of LM sock puppets linked to youtube films about the Moors murders. He also signed the email to the english reporter with Jonh Kilbride, a Moors victim.)

pannekoek
06-20-2012, 02:10 PM
Can somebody tell me how the garbage system works in the area where LM lived? I would like to know if it would have been possible for LE to find the ‘garbage’ that LM put outside after the murder and that was collected. I’ve read that they searched at the garbage disposel site for 16 or 18 hours but they didn’t find his head.

Im asking this bec if it was possibility for LE to track the ‘garbage’ down before it was destroyed, incinarated (don’t know how to spell it, but burned completely), it just wasn’t there. Then it didn’t go there.

If they were to late, it leaves the question open if it went there.

Ps I cant research it myself on the internet at the moment bec my laptop passed away last weekend. Had to get my ‘vintage’ Mac Os out of the closet, but it isnt compatable with all the new software, browser stuff etc... Feels like ‘90s internet all over again... :)

Dushi
06-20-2012, 02:12 PM
I don't understand why he would separate it from the torso unless he had specific plans for it

pingpattern
06-20-2012, 03:08 PM
It wouldn't shock me if LE already had the head, be it from a delivery that fell after their "no more comments" statement, a hint from LM, or simply being found. Since they are being tight-lipped about everything now, I doubt we'd hear about such a discovery until after the trial.

Cappuccino
06-20-2012, 04:01 PM
I very much hope you're right, Pingpattern. It strikes me as too cruel that they would have to bury Jun Lin without his head.

find
06-20-2012, 04:56 PM
I know the area very well there is not really a wooded area he could have disposed it. i dont think he had a car. So unless he took it on the bus subway or train my bet is its in the garbage dump or the river.

But if he had a car its farm and Forest within 30min drive.

claudicici
06-20-2012, 05:05 PM
since he mailed out various other parts of Jun's body I just can't believe he didn't do the same with the most shocking part someone could receive......

find
06-20-2012, 05:10 PM
since he mailed out various other parts of Jun's body I just can't believe he didn't do the same with the most shocking part someone could receive......

At first i had thought the same thing. But its been just under a month.

Unless it was shipped to someone that wanted to receive it.

thefreshestthing
06-20-2012, 05:11 PM
The head is the trophy. You keep that for yourself.

claudicici
06-20-2012, 05:20 PM
At first i had thought the same thing. But its been just under a month.

Unless it was shipped to someone that wanted to receive it.

...or I was thinking if he send it to his own family maybe they were too shocked and freaked out to admit they received it?

claudicici
06-20-2012, 05:23 PM
The head is the trophy. You keep that for yourself.

he couldn't tote it around with him all over Europe....and since i believe he did not do this for himself,like other killers, I think he did this for us,for our attention so IMO he would not be interested in a trophy.

Haunted82
06-20-2012, 05:27 PM
These are all good theories, and any one of them is possible. I thinj the bottom line is, unless LE knows but hasn't released it, its up to LRM to decide whether he will tell us. The problem LE faced, they were all gung ho to start interrogating him the moment he set foot into the detention center Monday night. He was dazed, exhausted, likely hadn't had any legal counsel from a Canadian lawyer, so why would he start talking. Furthermore, telling them what happened with the head, is basically a roundabout confession. He plead not guilty. If it hasn't been found by now, we may never know, and most likely, since it hasn't turned up, it was disposed of. Or.... ? (it could go on forever).

thefreshestthing
06-20-2012, 05:40 PM
he couldn't tote it around with him all over Europe....and since i believe he did not do this for himself,like other killers, I think he did this for us,for our attention so IMO he would not be interested in a trophy.


The killing was most definitely done for an audience. Agreed.

I remember a website. You paid for the opportunity to go into a room and shoot a person in the head. All you had to do was pay the money. The room, the gun, the person, the cleanup was all provided. The bodies were dismembered but the heads were kept. Not by the person who paid to do the killing, though.

Kind of like the movie Hostel but much more underground.

pannekoek
06-20-2012, 06:00 PM
It wouldn't shock me if LE already had the head, be it from a delivery that fell after their "no more comments" statement, a hint from LM, or simply being found. Since they are being tight-lipped about everything now, I doubt we'd hear about such a discovery until after the trial.

Do you really think they would/or could be capable of keeping that a secret? After examination they would have to release the body to his parents for burial. Keeping it longer would be unhuman to the family.

Sigh Sister
06-20-2012, 06:06 PM
Do you really think they would/or could be capable of keeping that a secret? After examination they would have to release the body to his parents for burial. Keeping it longer would be unhuman to the family.

I don't think LE has the head. They said that that was one of the first things they were going to question him about if I'm remembering correctly.

pannekoek
06-20-2012, 06:09 PM
he couldn't tote it around with him all over Europe....and since i believe he did not do this for himself,like other killers, I think he did this for us,for our attention so IMO he would not be interested in a trophy.

You can tote a head around Europe for sure, if its nicely wrapped and doesnt leak or smell, you hardly ever get checked. You just wouldnt be able to fly it in...

Sigh Sister
06-20-2012, 06:11 PM
The killing was most definitely done for an audience. Agreed.

I remember a website. You paid for the opportunity to go into a room and shoot a person in the head. All you had to do was pay the money. The room, the gun, the person, the cleanup was all provided. The bodies were dismembered but the heads were kept. Not by the person who paid to do the killing, though.

Kind of like the movie Hostel but much more underground.

:gasp:

sinwonderland
06-20-2012, 06:14 PM
I guess they searched around where he was hitchhiking? Or was he close to his house when he was picked up? Also, wouldn't the video of him at the Canada Post show how many packages he had?

pingpattern
06-20-2012, 06:19 PM
I don't think LE has the head. They said that that was one of the first things they were going to question him about if I'm remembering correctly.

Good point, it just struck me as odd that they made the secrecy statement right around the time the last delivery was expected, and LM was still awaiting extradition. As far as the ability to keep such a thing secret, I sort of agree, but LE has prevented leaks of A lot of things in this case (what the letters accompanying the limbs said, the full video version, etc.). its probably just wistful thinking on my part.

wfgodot
06-20-2012, 06:20 PM
The head is the trophy. You keep that for yourself.
Have there been many cases of the victim's head being kept as a trophy by their killer?

I think such was the case with one of Jeffrey Dahmer's victims. Trying to think of others.

pannekoek
06-20-2012, 06:21 PM
I don't think LE has the head. They said that that was one of the first things they were going to question him about if I'm remembering correctly.


Thats what I thought also. Another thing that made me think.. At LM’s apartment building there is CCTV, he was if I remember correctly filmed while putting the ‘garbage’ outside after the murder and when he went out to post the boxes with body parts. (Dont know if they could see the spot where he put the garbage)

It should then be sort of possible to deduct some information from those movements on camera.

If someone is putting garbage outside. The time they walk out with something and walk back in is short. So LE should have some idea about what was put on the street to be collected. The time between walking out to post a box or going to hide a box will be way longer. And they would be able to count the boxes.

Lera213
06-20-2012, 06:22 PM
LM was fixated on serial killers, he wanted to out do them all. I would start by looking at serial killers that had heads missing, or decapitated. Since the pigfarm was pretty big in the Candian news I'm thinking LM wanted to out do that serial killer. Did he feed it to pigs, did he feed it to the animals at the zoo? Something along those lines if I were LE I would take a look.

pannekoek
06-20-2012, 06:24 PM
boxes or bags

x_files
06-20-2012, 06:38 PM
...or I was thinking if he send it to his own family maybe they were too shocked and freaked out to admit they received it?

Wouldn't it be a crime to not inform LE? I'd hope they'd report something like that!

sinwonderland
06-20-2012, 07:05 PM
The killing was most definitely done for an audience. Agreed.

I remember a website. You paid for the opportunity to go into a room and shoot a person in the head. All you had to do was pay the money. The room, the gun, the person, the cleanup was all provided. The bodies were dismembered but the heads were kept. Not by the person who paid to do the killing, though.

Kind of like the movie Hostel but much more underground.

Quote from Eli Roth on the making of Hostel:

"I was trying to raise more money and we were talking about the sickest thing you could find on the internet. And he showed me this site where you could go to Thailand, pay ten thousand dollars to go into a room and shoot someone in the head. It said all these people were volunteers because part of the money would go to the family because they were so poor or had a terminal illness. And I thought, God, is this fake or is it real? And I thought it doesn't even matter because someone still thought of this and took the time to make site, you could go and pay money to kill somebody."

http://www.<modsnip>.com/newdesign/promo/hostel/interview.htm

(hope it's alright to post the link here to show where the quote is from)

x_files
06-20-2012, 07:07 PM
Quote from Eli Roth on the making of Hostel:

"I was trying to raise more money and we were talking about the sickest thing you could find on the internet. And he showed me this site where you could go to Thailand, pay ten thousand dollars to go into a room and shoot someone in the head. It said all these people were volunteers because part of the money would go to the family because they were so poor or had a terminal illness. And I thought, God, is this fake or is it real? And I thought it doesn't even matter because someone still thought of this and took the time to make site, you could go and pay money to kill somebody."

http://www.<modsnip>.com/newdesign/promo/hostel/interview.htm

(hope it's alright to post the link here to show where the quote is from)

Horrific.

LadyL
06-21-2012, 12:32 AM
I think poor Jun's head was picked up by garbage collectors, otherwise it would've turned up by now. The only exception might be if Luka mailed it to someone as proof that the deed was done in return for payment.

sillybilly
06-21-2012, 02:24 AM
This is probably a long shot, but

Pondering if somehow LRM mailed a package to himself or someone else in Paris

When I made the post with the pic of the big "pliers", another poster (sorry i can't recall who) commented they looked like "bolt cutters" (and I do feel that is a more accurate description). I find his interest in purchasing this particular tool puzzling, and have wondered if LRM possibly had a storage locker in Paris. Someone I know manages a storage facility. The tenant can put their own lock on, but if they are behind in rent, management puts another lock on the unit (to force the renters to contact management), but tenants will sometimes use bolt cutters to cut off the locks.

sillybilly
06-21-2012, 02:30 AM
I think poor Jun's head was picked up by garbage collectors, otherwise it would've turned up by now. The only exception might be if Luka mailed it to someone as proof that the deed was done in return for payment.

I'm confused on the garbage collection. Of all the garbage that was put out for the particular scheduled pick-up, was ALL of it left or was part of it picked up?

IOW, if the torso and head were put out at the same time, why would the garbage men take some items and leave the others? Unless pick-up was earlier in the morning, and some were put out in time for the collection, and other items were too late for that same pickup. (Mind you, from the pics we have seen, it seemed like a lot of garbage that was either missed or late).

Baudi Moovan
06-21-2012, 02:47 AM
Looking at the footage, it looks like all the garbage was left.

Sent from my Xoom using Tapatalk 2

Dion
06-21-2012, 10:16 AM
I don't know what kind of building he was living in. Was it one where you had to take all of your garbage outside, or was it like most larger apartment buildings, where you put your garbage in a plastic bag and dispose of it down the garbage shute?

If the building had a garbage shute, then he could have used that to dispose of the head. The body would be too large for this method of disposal.

Given his propensity for drama, it would seem unlikely that he would have missed the opportunity to "make a statement" by mailing it to someone, but who knows..

Haunted82
06-21-2012, 10:33 AM
The building was a 4 story walk-up with no garbage chute, so everyone walks their garbage around to the back alley. I remember reading the report from the building manager that he was observed "looking nervous" taking 6 bags of garbage out to the area. (Plus the suitcase) . This was presumably sometime during Friday the 25th... not sure what time of day. They have it on video anyways (would love to see that) .

There has been some inconsistencies on the reporting of the garbage pickup. I've read reports the garbage was picked up but they left the suitcase (it was apparently 'like new' condition on the outside) . Yet, the police were there on the Tuesday the 29th and recovered many piece of evidence from the garbage.
What's hard to believe is a like-new suitcase sitting in an alley sat untouched for all those days, with many people observing it. If the rest of the garbage bags were picked up prior to Tuesday, how did they recover so much evidence?
My guess is the garbage was not picked up (much to LRM's demise) , as I saw some photos the police had setup a crime scene in the alley and were apparently fishing through all the garbage there. I also believe his computer, likely a laptop was recovered in the garbage and thats where they recovered the 15 min version of the video.
If he had disposed of the suitcase better (walk it down the street at night and throw it in a proper bin and bury it under other garbage bags, he may have bought himself a lot more time before they were able to connect the dots, get a warrant and find his apartment scene, then put together a warrant. By that time, the alley garbage would have been gone.
I don't think the head was with that other garbage, or it would have been recovered. Since he had 6 bags of garbage, he likely disposed of some of his other belongings too, clothes, dishes, etc. He was living in a furnished apt, so he likely was more or less living out of a backpack.

missm
06-21-2012, 11:00 AM
I'm confused on the garbage collection. Of all the garbage that was put out for the particular scheduled pick-up, was ALL of it left or was part of it picked up?

IOW, if the torso and head were put out at the same time, why would the garbage men take some items and leave the others? Unless pick-up was earlier in the morning, and some were put out in time for the collection, and other items were too late for that same pickup. (Mind you, from the pics we have seen, it seemed like a lot of garbage that was either missed or late).

Garbage collection and larger garbage items (old furnture, mattresses, boxes of junk) are generally collected seperately, as is recycling.

Normal garbage is put out, but when you have larger garbage items, you are tequired to call the borough you live in for specific removal.

June/July are heavy moving months in this city specifically. Leases almost always end July 1st, otherwise known as "moving day" here (some say this was made up specifically so people would be too busy to celebrate Canada Day, but the 'French' holiday of Jean Baptiste day is a week earlier of course, but that is another story for another time....). Many people begin early dumping lots of household items out, figuring somebody else has already called for removal.

A heavy suitcase would be an item regular unionized garbage collectors would conceivably refuse (pardon the pun!) to pick up with the normal bags.

HastingsChi
06-21-2012, 11:10 AM
I don't know what kind of building he was living in. Was it one where you had to take all of your garbage outside, or was it like most larger apartment buildings, where you put your garbage in a plastic bag and dispose of it down the garbage shute?

If the building had a garbage shute, then he could have used that to dispose of the head. The body would be too large for this method of disposal.

Given his propensity for drama, it would seem unlikely that he would have missed the opportunity to "make a statement" by mailing it to someone, but who knows..

You raise some great points Dion.

IMO the head would be a very important "trophy" for someone like Magnotta. I've previously speculated that Magnotta may rent a self-storage unit under an assumed name and paid the rent of such a unit in advance for a couple years (think Hester Mofet in Silence of the Lambs). I speculate that if such a self-storage unit of Magnotta's exists it would be a treasure trove of evidence...

Mbshafeena
06-21-2012, 11:19 AM
This post will be "graphic". I was pondering because the head was not found in the garbage outside of his apartment, if perhaps he could have thrown it out in a further location from the apartment, such as the university campus where Jun Lin attended or at the location where Jun Lin lived or could he have boiled the head and broken the skull into smaller piece and disposed that way or did he sent the skull to someone?

KDOGG
06-21-2012, 11:49 AM
what if he threw it in a body of water (lake/pond/ocean/etc)? the thing would sink & be eaten up. we'd probly never find it if this was the case, correct?

HastingsChi
06-21-2012, 12:04 PM
what if he threw it in a body of water (lake/pond/ocean/etc)? the thing would sink & be eaten up. we'd probly never find it if this was the case, correct?

Scott Peterson thought this would be the case... Didn't turn out that way for Scott...

nursebeeme
06-21-2012, 12:38 PM
I think (just my thoughts) that he put the head in another dumpster while he was making his escape.

:moo:

jacksonsquare
06-21-2012, 01:03 PM
Hostel and 8 Millimeter were the two most disturbing movies I have ever seen.

Donyale
06-22-2012, 03:06 PM
I think since LM made references to several movies, he probably hid the head in a jar in a car in the storage area like in the Silence of the Lambs.

CuriousRus
06-22-2012, 03:32 PM
Did the torso in the suitcase come from any movie? I would guess this was probably brought up already, but I'm sadly guessing the head and the pup were in the bags he took out and were disposed of by the trash removers. Maybe in his mind, the head would reveal the victim too soon for his plan.

Donyale
06-22-2012, 05:10 PM
Did the torso in the suitcase come from any movie? I would guess this was probably brought up already, but I'm sadly guessing the head and the pup were in the bags he took out and were disposed of by the trash removers. Maybe in his mind, the head would reveal the victim too soon for his plan.

I can't remember any movie that had a torso in a suitcase.... There was the canadian torso murder killer called Evelyn Dick who dumped a torso somewhere and also hid a suitcase with a mummified baby at home, but I don't know there is any reference, except the last name White, one of Luka's aliases was Rebecca White...
http://home.cogeco.ca/~mrcarle/evelyn.htm
Evelyn Dick - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Crimes with the missing head:
I found murder of Julia Martha Thomas and William Heirens 'the lipstick killer'. She cooked the head and hid in a near pub also packed the other body parts in boxes. The head was discovered more than 100years later. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Julia_Martha_Thomas#Murder_and_the_dispo sal_of_the_body

The other killer hid the victim's head (Suzanne Degnan) in the storm drain sewer that was in an alley a block away. He dismembered the body in a basement laundry, blood was found in the drains of all tubs...
William Heirens - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

CuriousRus
06-23-2012, 11:20 AM
I wonder if anyone theorized that he sent the head to an old childhood abuser or just an abuser of his, who is also a criminal, who received the body part and never went to the police due to that person's own law breaking activity so he/she simply got rid of it in a panic.

Haunted82
06-23-2012, 10:07 PM
I wonder if anyone theorized that he sent the head to an old childhood abuser or just an abuser of his, who is also a criminal, who received the body part and never went to the police due to that person's own law breaking activity so he/she simply got rid of it in a panic.

Possible. I've also been thinking the package may have been leaking so was just disposed of by the postal service (without them opening it ), or it was lost in transition.

CARIIS
06-24-2012, 12:09 AM
I heard that story too YUK

CARIIS
06-24-2012, 12:10 AM
I wonder if anyone theorized that he sent the head to an old childhood abuser or just an abuser of his, who is also a criminal, who received the body part and never went to the police due to that person's own law breaking activity so he/she simply got rid of it in a panic.
Interesting

CARIIS
06-24-2012, 12:15 AM
Can somebody tell me how the garbage system works in the area where LM lived? I would like to know if it would have been possible for LE to find the ‘garbage’ that LM put outside after the murder and that was collected. I’ve read that they searched at the garbage disposel site for 16 or 18 hours but they didn’t find his head.

Im asking this bec if it was possibility for LE to track the ‘garbage’ down before it was destroyed, incinarated (don’t know how to spell it, but burned completely), it just wasn’t there. Then it didn’t go there.

If they were to late, it leaves the question open if it went there.

Ps I cant research it myself on the internet at the moment bec my laptop passed away last weekend. Had to get my ‘vintage’ Mac Os out of the closet, but it isnt compatable with all the new software, browser stuff etc... Feels like ‘90s internet all over again... :)
bec my laptop passed away last weekend.

That is priceless!!!!!!!!!!!!!

otto
06-24-2012, 02:15 AM
The thread title sure is grim: The Missing Head.

Is there really any mystery about what happened to the head?
It was most likely left on the sidewalk in a box next to the suitcase ... the difference being that garbage pickup left the suitcase behind.

I don't believe that Eric Newman expected to get caught. If garbage picked had collected the suitcase, it would have taken some time to connect Lin Jun with Eric Newman. I think it was Eric's intention to make the head disappear with the torso, but he couldn't fit it all into one package.

It sounds gruesome, but I think Eric planned what he would send and disposed of the rest in a very strange way ... wasn't there a leg in the fridge?

Sunday
06-24-2012, 02:49 AM
:gasp:
My sentiment exactly!

randomdiet
06-24-2012, 03:15 AM
I was wondering if it is possible for LM to have hidden the victim's head in charity/donation related venues such as Clothing Donation Bins, or boxes given to toy drives/canned food drives?

All the communities I've been to before have had a fair number of clothing bins distributed around local areas. I think (as someone who is not familiar with how these donation process works) that the boxes or the bags collected may sometimes sit for awhile before being processed.

What do the other seasoned members think? Does it sound logically possible in LM's case?

randomdiet
06-24-2012, 04:42 AM
I wonder if anyone theorized that he sent the head to an old childhood abuser or just an abuser of his, who is also a criminal, who received the body part and never went to the police due to that person's own law breaking activity so he/she simply got rid of it in a panic.

I was thinking about these kind of scenarios too, however assuming that LM's sole mission was after celebrity and recognition, mailing Lin's head to an old abuser (individual) would be quite a low-profile (ineffective) choice compared to his other four mailing destinations.

Since it is relatively low profile, sending Lin's head to a person to me would have meant LM puts the value of the chosen destination not in disturbing or shocking people but on why he is the way he is.

Assuming that he wants to tell the story (of his real or imagined "tragic" past) by sending Lin's head to his past "abusers" then I feel he should also have a strong incentive to want it to be found eventually, so much so he would cooperate with the police soon after the other 4 parts are discovered, so he can follow up with his story.

However, by now not only have him refused to tell the police where Lin's head is, his trio of lawyers have decided everything will stay mum until the trial begins next year. I don't know how to make of it so far. @@

Sunday
06-24-2012, 05:50 AM
I think it is very black and white. Either he ditched the head with the torso hoping that it would disappear, or it was more important and purposeful like the appendages, in which case it was also sent someplace meaningful, or it was given to someone for safer keeping. I still hold to my theory that it is with its intended owner (i.e., whoever paid him to make the video in the first place).

randomdiet
06-24-2012, 06:54 AM
I think it is very black and white. Either he ditched the head with the torso hoping that it would disappear, or it was more important and purposeful like the appendages, in which case it was also sent someplace meaningful, or it was given to someone for safer keeping. I still hold to my theory that it is with its intended owner (i.e., whoever paid him to make the video in the first place).I agree it is black and white like that. As to that Lin's head is with its intended owner though, I actually think it is very likely too, but have you thought about the kind of person that would do this kind of dealing with LM?

Suppose someone actually commissioned LM to make the snuff film, that buyer ought to know the serious nature of this business transaction. The stakes will be very high if the buyer's cover is blown. This will require extreme trustworthiness on LM's part to not to rat him/her out when **** hits the fan as it had now. Thus my feeling that a transaction like this was unlikely because simply put: LM's history and backgrounds do not suggest trustworthiness:

Financial: bankruptcy, large sums of money owing, credit card/identity fraud
Personal: creation of 70+ facebook accounts to misrepresent himself, for example
Family: severed family ties, dissent against family members, anonymous aunt: "sick...he has delusions of grandeur..."
Career: Seasonal, unstable income

I think if someone were to partake in such an atrocious and serious business transaction, he/she would want extreme discretion which LM does not seem to have. He/she would also have done the risk assessment and perhaps have something of importance to hold hostage against LM in case of betrayal. But looking at LM - he has little of anything to lose. In fact, he probably would betray in a heartbeat if things are not turning out well.

I know I am possibly projecting too much here, but having just ended a rather personally devastating dealing with a person who fit all of the criteria of the DSM-V narcissism diagnosis criteria, I feel anyone choosing to put his/her trust in a known narcissist is ridiculously out of their mind. And someone who dared to commission such a serious crime, knowing its risk to go public like this, are probably not the reckless type.

ergo I think the existence of a person who directed LM to do this is unlikely. However, it is very possible that Lin's head is in the hands of someone who wants it for perverted reasons. One'd never know just what kind of network LM had built and people he had come in contact with during his career as a low-end escort among others.

Scientific
06-24-2012, 08:13 AM
This scenario is unlikely because it adds an element of uncertainty whereas Luka sought control and attention when it came to the handling of body parts. Also, assuming that the head was unwrapped for the most part, the stench would be incredible. He most likely mailed the head somewhere.

Ugh, this is making my stomach turn just to type about. How gruesome.

I was wondering if it is possible for LM to have hidden the victim's head in charity/donation related venues such as Clothing Donation Bins, or boxes given to toy drives/canned food drives?

All the communities I've been to before have had a fair number of clothing bins distributed around local areas. I think (as someone who is not familiar with how these donation process works) that the boxes or the bags collected may sometimes sit for awhile before being processed.

What do the other seasoned members think? Does it sound logically possible in LM's case?

GoBrewers
06-24-2012, 09:03 AM
After waking up to another trainrun close to my home, the thought occured to me that there has to be a possibility of him meeeting someone by way of the train, and if he included a usb/dvd of the 15 minute version, as more than one person have stated the beginning includes the body moving slightly and that gives reason to there being a time cut between the slight movements and the recovering of the face after. He could meet with someone via way of trains or other mostly untraceable ways. This way, the person who most likely supported this act (the longer version) could be interested in having the trophy people have discussed, and would give more reasoning to Luka wanting fame but most likely not having cash to just freely fly around and travel extensively with cash on hand. (no idea how much, but i would assume it would have been stated if he was traced by credit, and i haven't seen that so far at all)

We know the cctv will show how large the bags are, and most likely how many packages were shipped at the one time, and hopefully police know already, but speculation is what is keeping me so interested in what happened. I should have typed it out before trying to sleep because my brain is still all rambled from reading the post on Hostel and this immediately before bed last night.

Justme84
06-24-2012, 01:08 PM
We really can't assume much. If all the transaction was online
LM didn't have to know ANYTHING about the
other person. He just had to send it through One of
the deep net transaction services. I don't believe
that this is what happened but it's not an impossibility
due to discretion.

I believe that either he sent it somewhere to
horrify someone and something happened along the way
with it, such as the postal worker who was supposed to
deliver it thought it was a dead animal
and threw it away without mentioning it to anyone
then was ashamed to admit they didn't report it, or didn't put 2 and 2 together.

OR
He has it somewhere as a bargaining chip.

Sunday
06-24-2012, 05:30 PM
I agree it is black and white like that. As to that Lin's head is with its intended owner though, I actually think it is very likely too, but have you thought about the kind of person that would do this kind of dealing with LM?

Suppose someone actually commissioned LM to make the snuff film, that buyer ought to know the serious nature of this business transaction. The stakes will be very high if the buyer's cover is blown. This will require extreme trustworthiness on LM's part to not to rat him/her out when **** hits the fan as it had now. Thus my feeling that a transaction like this was unlikely because simply put: LM's history and backgrounds do not suggest trustworthiness:

Financial: bankruptcy, large sums of money owing, credit card/identity fraud
Personal: creation of 70+ facebook accounts to misrepresent himself, for example
Family: severed family ties, dissent against family members, anonymous aunt: "sick...he has delusions of grandeur..."
Career: Seasonal, unstable income

I think if someone were to partake in such an atrocious and serious business transaction, he/she would want extreme discretion which LM does not seem to have. He/she would also have done the risk assessment and perhaps have something of importance to hold hostage against LM in case of betrayal. But looking at LM - he has little of anything to lose. In fact, he probably would betray in a heartbeat if things are not turning out well.

I know I am possibly projecting too much here, but having just ended a rather personally devastating dealing with a person who fit all of the criteria of the DSM-V narcissism diagnosis criteria, I feel anyone choosing to put his/her trust in a known narcissist is ridiculously out of their mind. And someone who dared to commission such a serious crime, knowing its risk to go public like this, are probably not the reckless type.

ergo I think the existence of a person who directed LM to do this is unlikely. However, it is very possible that Lin's head is in the hands of someone who wants it for perverted reasons. One'd never know just what kind of network LM had built and people he had come in contact with during his career as a low-end escort among others.
Great reasoning! Someone did mention deep web transactions, which is plausible if such a thing exists. Anyone who would pay for a snuff film plus an accompanying token would be an inherent risk taker and adrenaline junky. I don't think they'd need to necessarily trust the filmmaker. I mean, could you ever trust anyone willing to make a snuff film in the first place? Even if it was your own mother you'd be weary somewhere deep inside. A person whacked enough to entertain this idea is whacked enough to get off on the risk.

CuriousRus
06-28-2012, 04:00 AM
Im just playing armchair detective here, but....What was the packaging like for the other mailings? If it was a specific type of box or styrofoam, maybe it can be determined where he purchased it, and, if so, security cameras could be checked for the store and with times tracked and receipts checked. Then LE could figure out all items he bought that day. I'm guessing it was a hardware store and there were other tools he purchased to do the deed. I wonder how close the closest hardware store is to his home. That might be a good start.

randomdiet
06-28-2012, 10:17 AM
Thanks Sunday and Justme. I hope (if this is the case) that the person who commissioned the snuff be dragged out too by the end of it.

I have a thought: Would it be useful, in this case, to offer monetary rewards to viable links to locating Lin's head and/or to turning his head in - with no potential legal penalty.

Animal rights activists placed a 5,000 USD reward on LM in relation to the kitten killings, which reportedly had such an effect on LM that he scurried to a lawyer from Montana with the mythological Manny excuse, hoping to shift the responsibility. Perhaps they were able to get this close to him (?) due to this strategy?

If Lin's head was turned over to another person or if it were the postal workers who threw it away, would monetary rewards and (not sure if this is possible) no responsibility be a viable incentive for they to spill the beans?

fittzi
06-28-2012, 01:26 PM
Animal rights activists placed a 5,000 USD reward on LM in relation to the kitten killings, which reportedly had such an effect on LM that he scurried to a lawyer from Montana with the mythological Manny excuse, hoping to shift the responsibility. Perhaps they were able to get this close to him (?) due to this strategy?

<snipped>

FWIW, it was a lawyer from Montana that contacted LE about the video. The lawyer LM contacted about Manny is located in NY.

Reannan
06-28-2012, 09:20 PM
There are still shots towards the end of the video where you see an arm in what is obviously a freezer compartment of a refrigerator/freezer - probably the one in his apartment. The general public has seen the blood in the refrigerator compartment on mainstream news media, so there was some body part stored in the refrigerator as well. There are at least two still shots in the video of the head.... one is angled so you are looking at the base of skull where it was severed from the neck. This view is laying on some sort of red fabric-like material and the face is pressed up against some sort of white plastic material like the side of a cheap bathtub or something. The other view of the head is on a bed of ice along with a foot, an arm and a leg. There is what appears to be a black garbage bag pressed down into the ice as well. This is a MUCH larger area than what he would have had in a normal refrigerator. The bed of ice with the body parts is either in the bathtub, or in a large cooler. It could even be ice in a large industrial ice machine of some sort. I have still shots of this, but I don't want to post them because I would hate for JL's family to ever stumble upon them. Did anyone else see this in the video? Did LM have access to any large ice machines??? Could the head be down in an ice machine that the public is still using ice from? That seems unlikely because you would think, even on ice, there would have been an odor by now, right? Why would LM have even put the body parts on ice? He disposed of them or mailed them within hours, right? What is the purpose of this ice?

Haunted82
06-28-2012, 11:00 PM
There are still shots towards the end of the video where you see an arm in what is obviously a freezer compartment of a refrigerator/freezer - probably the one in his apartment. The general public has seen the blood in the refrigerator compartment on mainstream news media, so there was some body part stored in the refrigerator as well. There are at least two still shots in the video of the head.... one is angled so you are looking at the base of skull where it was severed from the neck. This view is laying on some sort of red fabric-like material and the face is pressed up against some sort of white plastic material like the side of a cheap bathtub or something. The other view of the head is on a bed of ice along with a foot, an arm and a leg. There is what appears to be a black garbage bag pressed down into the ice as well. This is a MUCH larger area than what he would have had in a normal refrigerator. The bed of ice with the body parts is either in the bathtub, or in a large cooler. It could even be ice in a large industrial ice machine of some sort. I have still shots of this, but I don't want to post them because I would hate for JL's family to ever stumble upon them. Did anyone else see this in the video? Did LM have access to any large ice machines??? Could the head be down in an ice machine that the public is still using ice from? That seems unlikely because you would think, even on ice, there would have been an odor by now, right? Why would LM have even put the body parts on ice? He disposed of them or mailed them within hours, right? What is the purpose of this ice?

Yes, the first shot of the head is on a red mat of some sort. This is on the bathroom floor, as there is a small showing of the bathroom tile and that is the side of the bathtub you're seeing there as well. The other view of the head and other items is in the bathtub. What you are seeing there may not be ice but water droplets running. He appeared to be rinsing off the parts in the tub. Yes, the one hand/arm was in the freezer and apparently there was something in the fridge with the bloodtrail left there. If that was ice in the tub, it may have been just a temporary preserver, as decomposition and odours start within an hour or two of death and rapidly increase.

Mbshafeena
06-29-2012, 04:34 PM
I say give him truth serum and have at it

Truth drug - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

At this point I don't care if it's not admissible in court. We need to give closure to this family.

sillybilly
06-29-2012, 06:05 PM
I say give him truth serum and have at it

Truth drug - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Truth_drug)

At this point I don't care if it's not admissible in court. We need to give closure to this family.

I actually humoured myself with that same thought re his flight back from Germany and his somewhat stoned demeanour. Then when he tells the courts that he was victimized by being injected with sodium pentothal, everyone else on board would just claim it's another of his outrageous stories :D

No_Stone_Unturned
06-30-2012, 06:44 AM
You're not alone - I also was thinking of shooting him up with sodium pentothal for the truth. It's not half as bad as what he's done to others.

:jail:

Mozzmo
06-30-2012, 12:51 PM
****Graphic Question****

I recall a snap shot of Lin Jun's head with throat slit before he was obviously decapitated. On the left side of his face I believe LM mutilated it some. My question is that it looks like part of his left ear was sliced off. Does anyone else see this detail or is it an illusion based upon the positioning of the head?

Here is a link to photo I am talking about:

http://www.google.com/imgres?q=lin+jun&start=93&hl=en&sa=X&rlz=1T4ADRA_enUS483US483&biw=1141&bih=595&addh=36&tbm=isch&prmd=imvnsu&tbnid=a1Xi3OMbtzfcpM:&imgrefurl=http://negro-power.tumblr.com/page/5&docid=-FP07Eg2ETNUuM&imgurl=http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m5175741pr1rpk1f8o1_500.jpg&w=469&h=348&ei=JzLvT4mTA82_2QWckLyxAQ&zoom=1

HastingsChi
06-30-2012, 01:04 PM
Regarding the location of the victim's body parts that have not yet been disclosed, I see two possibilities:

1. LE secured these items but did not publicly disclose this information.

2. Magnotta has a pre-paid storage locker under an alias and this locker contains the victim's missing remains and other trinkets of his past actions that Magnotta would view as trophies.



Sent from my Samsung Galaxy S 2

CuriousRus
06-30-2012, 04:39 PM
****Graphic Question****

I recall a snap shot of Lin Jun's head with throat slit before he was obviously decapitated. On the left side of his face I believe LM mutilated it some. My question is that it looks like part of his left ear was sliced off. Does anyone else see this detail or is it an illusion based upon the positioning of the head?

Here is a link to photo I am talking about:

http://www.google.com/imgres?q=lin+jun&start=93&hl=en&sa=X&rlz=1T4ADRA_enUS483US483&biw=1141&bih=595&addh=36&tbm=isch&prmd=imvnsu&tbnid=a1Xi3OMbtzfcpM:&imgrefurl=http://negro-power.tumblr.com/page/5&docid=-FP07Eg2ETNUuM&imgurl=http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m5175741pr1rpk1f8o1_500.jpg&w=469&h=348&ei=JzLvT4mTA82_2QWckLyxAQ&zoom=1

I think it's an illusion and might be covered with blood so it looks like part of it is missing. His right ear is intact in a later photo where the head is cleaned and is leaning against what looks like a bathtub and on a red or blood stained mat. I'm not going to link it, but it's not hard to find.

CuriousRus
06-30-2012, 04:53 PM
Regarding the location of the victim's body parts that have not yet been disclosed, I see two possibilities:

1. LE secured these items but did not publicly disclose this information.

2. Magnotta has a pre-paid storage locker under an alias and this locker contains the victim's missing remains and other trinkets of his past actions that Magnotta would view as trophies.



Sent from my Samsung Galaxy S 2

On 1, I would think the family would be given the body parts out of respect and dignity to both victim and family, it just doesn't seem likely that this information would be withheld. Having said that, I guess the family could have been told to keep it quiet by LE, so it might be possible. There must be some protocol about this sort of thing in LE.

On 2, the locker idea seems very possible, but where can one get a pre-paid locker? Storage units in larger cities can be quite expensive, a 10 by 10 is just over $200 US a month in some US big cities.

He also cleaned the head, which makes me think he mailed it as well, or stored it. I still think any hardware store around the area should check security video within a week or two of the murder.

HastingsChi
06-30-2012, 05:15 PM
On 1, I would think the family would be given the body parts out of respect and dignity to both victim and family, it just doesn't seem likely that this information would be withheld. Having said that, I guess the family could have been told to keep it quiet by LE, so it might be possible. There must be some protocol about this sort of thing in LE.

On 2, the locker idea seems very possible, but where can one get a pre-paid locker? Storage units in larger cities can be quite expensive, a 10 by 10 is just over $200 US a month in some US big cities.

He also cleaned the head, which makes me think he mailed it as well, or stored it. I still think any hardware store around the area should check security video within a week or two of the murder.

If the missing human remains were obtained by LE as I mentioned as possibility 1, I'm confident that LE would have released them to the victim's family in a dignified manner. Knowing the passionate desire of the family that Magnotta is convicted, I'm sure the family writes comply with a request by LE to not share such info.

Regarding the storage locker scenario: Magnotta loves taking bits and pieces from culture and if you recall that Dr Lecter pre-paid his 10 year lease at "Your Self Storage" and used the alias Hester Mofet. It seems possible if not probable that a frequent mover like Magnotta might have such a place.

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy S 2

Sunday
06-30-2012, 05:28 PM
I think it's an illusion and might be covered with blood so it looks like part of it is missing. His right ear is intact in a later photo where the head is cleaned and is leaning against what looks like a bathtub and on a red or blood stained mat. I'm not going to link it, but it's not hard to find.
It looks like his ears are sinking into the pool of blood, so it is hard to say; however, the left side of his face seems all messed up (the eye, skin, etc).

sillybilly
06-30-2012, 05:33 PM
Regarding the storage locker scenario: Magnotta loves taking bits and pieces from culture and if you recall that Dr Lecter pre-paid his 10 year lease at "Your Self Storage" and used the alias Hester Mofet. It seems possible if not probable that a frequent mover like Magnotta might have such a place.<rsbm>

Also not a bad place to couch surf if need be.

ToBeHonest
06-30-2012, 07:23 PM
****Graphic Question****

I recall a snap shot of Lin Jun's head with throat slit before he was obviously decapitated. On the left side of his face I believe LM mutilated it some. My question is that it looks like part of his left ear was sliced off. Does anyone else see this detail or is it an illusion based upon the positioning of the head?

Here is a link to photo I am talking about:

http://www.google.com/imgres?q=lin+jun&start=93&hl=en&sa=X&rlz=1T4ADRA_enUS483US483&biw=1141&bih=595&addh=36&tbm=isch&prmd=imvnsu&tbnid=a1Xi3OMbtzfcpM:&imgrefurl=http://negro-power.tumblr.com/page/5&docid=-FP07Eg2ETNUuM&imgurl=http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m5175741pr1rpk1f8o1_500.jpg&w=469&h=348&ei=JzLvT4mTA82_2QWckLyxAQ&zoom=1

I haven't seen the video nor will I, but I wonder if there's some form of significance to the left side of the face being focused on in terms of mutilation while it seems the right side was left alone. Any thoughts?

OEJ
06-30-2012, 08:11 PM
The weirdest thing happened while I was trying to watch this video. The first time, I could only get through about 10 seconds before I shut my eyes. I only looked again when I heard the puppy bark.

I finally did watch the whole thing the other day but without the music. I watched it all from beginning to end, but I cannot remember any of it except seeing Jun Lin's head.

pannekoek
06-30-2012, 10:51 PM
Regarding the storage locker scenario: Magnotta loves taking bits and pieces from culture and if you recall that Dr Lecter pre-paid his 10 year lease at "Your Self Storage" and used the alias Hester Mofet. It seems possible if not probable that a frequent mover like Magnotta might have such a place.

A couple of weeks ago I checked prices for storage places in Montreal. The cheapest I found was 39 dollar/month. So thats 468 a year and 4680 for ten year. On the ten you probably be able to get a discount but thats still a lot of money...

I dont know if its the same in Canada as here in the Netherlands but outside the big cities, the more rural area, its a lot more cheap to get a storage place. I know my father for years had a place at a farmer where he storaged stuff.. was really cheap..

Makes me think of the lady and her son who claimed to have picked up LM hitchicking. Was that ever disproven?

Haunted82
06-30-2012, 11:52 PM
Makes me think of the lady and her son who claimed to have picked up LM hitchicking. Was that ever disproven?

It's never been proven to be true , thats for sure. Generally believed to be a crock. I can't remember the actual day she said she picked him up, but where she was going it made no sense he was heading way out to there. Also, we know he was busy on the friday mailing the packages, cleaning up, then he skipped the country sat night, and he didn't live too far from the airport, so it just never added up. Another attention seeker.

vorpal22
07-01-2012, 01:02 AM
The weirdest thing happened while I was trying to watch this video. The first time, I could only get through about 10 seconds before I shut my eyes. I only looked again when I heard the puppy bark.

I finally did watch the whole thing the other day but without the music. I watched it all from beginning to end, but I cannot remember any of it except seeing Jun Lin's head.

Similarly to what you're saying, I think my brain has deliberately filtered out huge parts of the video: people mention things that happened in it, and I have no idea what they're talking about.

That being said, when I watched the video, it really affected me: I was depressed and unable to function for about four days after the fact, and the song playing in the background just kept looping over and over in my head on repeat.

It was absolutely a mistake for me to have chosen to watch the video, unfortunately.

OEJ
07-01-2012, 08:09 AM
Similarly to what you're saying, I think my brain has deliberately filtered out huge parts of the video: people mention things that happened in it, and I have no idea what they're talking about.

That being said, when I watched the video, it really affected me: I was depressed and unable to function for about four days after the fact, and the song playing in the background just kept looping over and over in my head on repeat.

It was absolutely a mistake for me to have chosen to watch the video, unfortunately.

I thought I was posting in the "Graphic Video Discussion" thread when I posted here, vorpall22, so I moved the discussion there.

Sorry everyone.

HastingsChi
07-01-2012, 02:27 PM
A couple of weeks ago I checked prices for storage places in Montreal. The cheapest I found was 39 dollar/month. So thats 468 a year and 4680 for ten year. On the ten you probably be able to get a discount but thats still a lot of money...

I dont know if its the same in Canada as here in the Netherlands but outside the big cities, the more rural area, its a lot more cheap to get a storage place. I know my father for years had a place at a farmer where he storaged stuff.. was really cheap..

Makes me think of the lady and her son who claimed to have picked up LM hitchicking. Was that ever disproven?

Thanks for your thoughtful reply. I appreciate the info on storage facility prices, I had no idea how much storage units cost until you shared that.

Like Magnotta I have moved many times- in the last 10 years I've lived all over the United States - from the east coast to west coast to the south and currently the Midwest... When it comes to certain possessions I keep them at my parents house knowing that they'll be safe and not get lost in a move. When I finally settle down permanently in a city I'll reclaim them. So, based on my own experience, to me it would seem logical that Magnotta might utilize a storage unit for his trophies...

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy S 2

Justme84
07-01-2012, 02:34 PM
I did not watch the video because you can't unwatch but I do
completely understand why some people
would have blocked it from their mind. To know its a real
murder and to not have seen things like that
before could seriously be traumatic. That's why this
video is so horrible. I think maybe that was
the intent with each body part. As much trauma as possible
I just have a hard time believing he wouldn't have used the head
for that.

pannekoek
07-01-2012, 04:34 PM
<snipsnip>(...) utilize a storage unit for his trophies... <snip>

I think Lin Juns head might be his biggest trophie...

Im wondering about some things, maby you can enlighten me.

LM killed and dismembered Jin Lun somewere between the time he left work and friday morning. On friday he put out the ‘garbage’ and the suitcase with Lin Juns torso. He also mailed the boxes (4 we know for sure). Now what I dont understand is this. At some point during that day he must have noticed that the garbage men hadn’t picked up the garbage and that the suitcase with torso was still standing there.

What would you do? I would freak out and realise that there was a change that someone would notice/want that shiny new suitcase and subsequently discover the torso. People saw him put the ‘garbage’ out. So he would know that if the torso was found they would know it was him. To me there are four possible reactions. Firstly to move the suitcase, killing tools (dont think he cleaned them) and the laptop back to the appartment. Second option, pack my stuff and run like Forrest Gumb. If not immediately then early the next morning. Third option, do nothing. Take the risk and just stay there another night, very cold blooded. Last option, he had already planned to leave that same day so nothing changes.

In the psych thread I just read that the guys next to him in the plane noticed that he smelt faul, of sweat. So he probably didnt take a shower in the hours before the plane took off. Which seems a bit out character for somebody whose life revolves around his appearence. And if theres one thing gay men dont like it is smelling faul.. Yes, that is a generalisation but true nonetheless. It might explain his crying in the plane though, LOL

So the big question: when did he take his last shower at the appartment? I think he left not long after that..

Mozzmo
07-01-2012, 04:57 PM
I think Lin Juns head might be his biggest trophie...

Im wondering about some things, maby you can enlighten me.

LM killed and dismembered Jin Lun somewere between the time he left work and friday morning. On friday he put out the ‘garbage’ and the suitcase with Lin Juns torso. He also mailed the boxes (4 we know for sure). Now what I dont understand is this. At some point during that day he must have noticed that the garbage men hadn’t picked up the garbage and that the suitcase with torso was still standing there.

What would you do? I would freak out and realise that there was a change that someone would notice/want that shiny new suitcase and subsequently discover the torso. People saw him put the ‘garbage’ out. So he would know that if the torso was found they would know it was him. To me there are four possible reactions. Firstly to move the suitcase, killing tools (dont think he cleaned them) and the laptop back to the appartment. Second option, pack my stuff and run like Forrest Gumb. If not immediately then early the next morning. Third option, do nothing. Take the risk and just stay there another night, very cold blooded. Last option, he had already planned to leave that same day so nothing changes.

In the psych thread I just read that the guys next to him in the plane noticed that he smelt faul, of sweat. So he probably didnt take a shower in the hours before the plane took off. Which seems a bit out character for somebody whose life revolves around his appearence. And if theres one thing gay men dont like it is smelling faul.. Yes, that is a generalisation but true nonetheless. It might explain his crying in the plane though, LOL

So the big question: when did he take his last shower at the appartment? I think he left not long after that..


Yes, a normal person would freak out, but psychopaths don't have that alarm feature, its part of the why/how of what they do.

IMO, LM had a lot of work to do to complete his plan, get the dog,make sure he bought ice pick/bindings, post possible CL ad for victim selection, lure a victim, drug victim, bind victim/kill/butcher/defile/act out sex crap all on video, clean up body parts, package body parts, take body parts to different post stations, edit video, dispose of dog, dispose of unused/unwanted body parts, possibly hide any kept trophies such as Lin Jun's head/material possessions. He then had to get to the airport, clear security and get on a plan to Europe. Who knows when he took his last shower, minimally all the work/stress of completing the plan would increase perspiration and hence body odor.

I don't think he was sooo concerned about the evidence left behind in that apartment, otherwise he would have likely killed the individual some place not as closely tied to himself. Given this, I don't think he much cared about the torso not being taken away by the trash. In fact, I think the macabre element of a putrid smelling suitcase may have even titillated him.

Shimmers
07-01-2012, 05:00 PM
<snipsnip> <snip>

In the psych thread I just read that the guys next to him in the plane noticed that he smelt faul, of sweat. So he probably didnt take a shower in the hours before the plane took off. Which seems a bit out character for somebody whose life revolves around his appearence. And if theres one thing gay men dont like it is smelling faul.. Yes, that is a generalisation but true nonetheless. It might explain his crying in the plane though, LOL

So the big question: when did he take his last shower at the appartment? I think he left not long after that..

There is something called stress sweating. One can imagine that LM had a certain level of stress during the aftermath. During a stress moment the hormone cortisol releases and it has all sort effect on the body, including sweating. How ridiculous it may sound, this type of sweat smells different then for example heat sweat or sport sweat. Due to the nature of the sweating, it has a more penetrating odeur. Another effect of stress is also crying, not feeling well ( stomach issues ) which was said in an interview.

Channy
07-01-2012, 08:38 PM
I just saw this breaking new on Cyberpresse : http://www.lapresse.ca/actualites/quebec-canada/justice-et-faits-divers/201207/01/01-4539931-des-restes-humains-auraient-ete-retrouves-au-parc-angrignon.php

It's in french, sorry, but it says that human remains have been found in Parc Angrignon and that they could be related to this case. It seems that LE received an "information" and that's what prompted them to search there...

Baudi Moovan
07-01-2012, 08:42 PM
http://montreal.ctvnews.ca/possible-body-part-found-in-angrignon-park-1.861897

and

http://tvanouvelles.ca/lcn/infos/faitsdivers/archives/2012/07/20120701-191715.html


"A human head was found on Lake Angrignon Park, Sunday, in the southwest of Montreal, told QMI Agency. It not immediately clear to whom this head could belong, but she would not confirm that of the Chinese student Jun Lin, alleged victim of the so-called "skinning of Montreal," Luka Rocco Magnotta, nor even that what was found is a human head, the police department of the City of Montreal said it is information obtained by investigators of major crimes in the context of the case that led Magnotta Angrignon park."

deanna82437
07-01-2012, 08:59 PM
https://twitter.com/#!/justin_ling

Justin Ling ‏@justin_ling

We, of course, do not know that this is Lin Jun. It could be a mafia killing! (I say that with a straight face. It really could be.)
from Montréal, Québec

Justin Ling ‏@justin_ling

Okay, I just walked through the park and haven't seen a single cop. I suspect I am too late. Fun adventure, though. Beautiful park.

Baudi Moovan
07-01-2012, 09:23 PM
One thing I found sort of interesting:

http://www.ottawasun.com/2012/07/01/human-head-found-in-montreal-park

"The major crimes squad investigators were in the park, they got information that led them there," Lemieux told QMI Agency."

Baudi Moovan
07-01-2012, 09:32 PM
"Information obtained over the course of the investigation of murder suspect Luka Rocca Magnotta led police to Angrignon Park, a 110-acre green space in Montreal’s Ville Emard/La Salle district. The park has several densely wooded areas and is just a few kilometres from Magnotta’s apartment in N.D.G."

Read more: http://www.montrealgazette.com/Human+remains+suspected+Angrignon+Park/6870411/story.html#ixzz1zQOR3jzC

If that story is acurate; that seems pretty significant to me.

sinwonderland
07-01-2012, 09:34 PM
This article mentions that they have let the Lin family know about the head:

http://www.torontosun.com/2012/07/01/human-head-found-in-montreal-park

Would they tell the family if they didn't know it was JLs?

Baudi Moovan
07-01-2012, 09:36 PM
"Montreal police say investigators working on the Magnotta investigation had information that led them to Montreal’s Angrignon Park. Police will not say where the information came from."

http://www.globalnational.com/investigators+working+on+magnotta+case+make+a+find ing+in+montreal+park/6442671786/story.html

Haunted82
07-01-2012, 09:37 PM
"She added that the item found near the lake would be examined in the coming days. Test results are expected to be completed within a week."

So confirmation either way could take up to a week.

Hamsterdance
07-01-2012, 09:40 PM
http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/article/1220185--luka-rocco-magnotta-head-found-in-montreal-park

'Montreal police found what may be a human head Sunday afternoon at a public park.

The major crime squad was called to Angrignon Park, which was closed after a suspicious object was found in a pond.

Montreal police spokesperson Anie Lemieux said in a message that “we must wait for results of analysis that will be done over the next few days” or even a week. She added that it was too early to confirm if what was found was a human body part...."

Baudi Moovan
07-01-2012, 09:46 PM
The park was apparently closed in the morning when they found the head.

Montreal police spokeswoman Anie Lemieux confirmed a discovery was made in the park Sunday morning but she wouldn't say if it was a human head.

http://www.ottawasun.com/2012/07/01/human-head-found-in-montreal-park

Sigh Sister
07-01-2012, 09:57 PM
One thing I found sort of interesting:

http://www.ottawasun.com/2012/07/01/human-head-found-in-montreal-park

"The major crimes squad investigators were in the park, they got information that led them there," Lemieux told QMI Agency."

LM talked, someone saw it and called police, or ???

Baudi Moovan
07-01-2012, 10:04 PM
I guess there are a few possibilities.

1) SVPM found evidence in the trash? Bus Ticket, something?

2) Luka talked.

3) Possible Accomplice spoke up?

Pure speculation...

tarabull
07-01-2012, 10:15 PM
snipped...Acting on information from an unidentified source, police officers seized what reportedly appeared to be a human head from a pond in a park in the west-end neighbourhood of Angrignon.

Montreal police have been questioning Luka Magnotta, who is charged with murder in the case, hoping he might reveal the location of Mr. Lin's head. Police had said he was not co-operating.

...Angrignon Park is on the western terminus of the Montreal subway system's green line, which runs through a neighbourhood where both Mr. Magnotta and Mr. Lin once lived.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/possible-human-remains-found-in-montreal-park-ties-to-magnotta-case-probed/article4384259/

Hazel
07-01-2012, 10:25 PM
Possible human remains found in Montreal park; ties to Magnotta case probed
Last updated Sunday, Jul. 01 2012, 10:02 PM EDT
Acting on information from an unidentified source, police officers seized what reportedly appeared to be a human head from a pond in a park in the west-end neighbourhood of Angrignon.
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/police-investigate-magnotta-tie-as-possible-human-remains-found-in-montreal-park/article4384259/?cmpid=rss1

sillybilly
07-01-2012, 10:28 PM
This article mentions that they have let the Lin family know about the head:

http://www.torontosun.com/2012/07/01/human-head-found-in-montreal-park

Would they tell the family if they didn't know it was JLs?

Yes, even without a definite ID, LE would prepare the family in the event it does turn out to belong to Lin Jun.

Haunted82
07-01-2012, 10:30 PM
Could be something as simple as somebody walking by at the location noticed something odd and reported it.

Hazel
07-01-2012, 10:35 PM
(1) http://i.huffpost.com/gen/669227/thumbs/s-HUMAN-HEAD-MONTREAL-ANGRIGNON-PARK-large.jpg .. (2) http://storage.canoe.ca/v1/dynamic_resize/?src=http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/Crime/2012/07/01/248-parc.jpg&size=256x600&quality=85

(1) The park where a human head was found Sunday in Montreal. (QMI Agency)
(2) A human head has been found in a pond in Montreal's Angrignon Park, Canoe.ca reported. (QMI)

source for pictures:
http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2012/07/01/human-remains-montreal-angrignon-park_n_1641879.html

http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/Crime/2012/07/01/19940796.html

tarabull
07-01-2012, 10:37 PM
Montreal police find human remains linked to Luka Rocco Magnotta:report
10:10pm

Read more: http://www.montrealgazette.com/news/national/Montreal+police+find+human+remains+linked+Luka+Roc co+Magnotta/6870529/story.html#ixzz1zQePB1rG

Sunday
07-01-2012, 10:52 PM
Montreal police find human remains linked to Luka Rocco Magnotta:report
10:10pm

Read more: http://www.montrealgazette.com/news/national/Montreal+police+find+human+remains+linked+Luka+Roc co+Magnotta/6870529/story.html#ixzz1zQePB1rG
I was wondering how they could not be able to tell if it were a human head/skull or not. Guessing they just didn't want to confirm that detail in the media until they ID'd it. Apparently they were unable to keep it as hushed as they would have liked. I do wonder if Luka disposed of it there himself or if someone else did. I believe it is good that it was placed in the water because they can determine how long it had been in water and thus the likelihood that he had placed it there himself. If it was dumped in the grass it may be more difficult, unless of course it were obviously preserved somewhere and dumped only recently.

Ignore this post - Just thinking out loud!

sillybilly
07-01-2012, 10:54 PM
Lin Jun / Justin also went by Patrick.

Google maps shows Angrignon Park is just south of Boulevard Newman which is south of Rue Saint Patrick

Hazel
07-01-2012, 11:00 PM
http://storage.canoe.ca/v1/dynamic_resize/sws_path/suns-prod-images/1340766539160_ORIGINAL.jpg?quality=80&size=800x

http://www.ottawasun.com/2012/07/01/human-head-found-in-montreal-park

MAP: showing Angrignon Park, Montreal http://goo.gl/maps/OnHM

Mozzmo
07-01-2012, 11:04 PM
I thought the newspaper said it was found on the shoreline of a lake/pond? All I see in the photos is tall grass. Is that obstructing the view of the pond?

sillybilly
07-01-2012, 11:13 PM
I thought the newspaper said it was found on the shoreline of a lake/pond? All I see in the photos is tall grass. Is that obstructing the view of the pond?

I suspect the grass is just blocking the view Mozzmo. The following link shows another view of the forensics vehicle .. can't tell if it's parked or leaving the area. And in the pic Hazel posted, we see the back end of the vehicle close to where the officers are standing. Seems it might not have been too far off a roadway.

http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/canada/montreal-police-find-human-remains-linked-to-luka-rocco-magnottareport-161029115.html

Maybe some Montrealers can confirm, but I see the Metro station is Terminus Angrignon which appears to be very close to the park itself.

For the family's sake, I do hope it is Lin Jun's remains. Just makes me so sad and ill to think that once again, their son's death and recovery of his remains are being so sensationalized.

Karmady
07-01-2012, 11:18 PM
I suspect the grass is just blocking the view Mozzmo. The following link shows another view of the forensics vehicle .. can't tell if it's parked or leaving the area. And in the pic Hazel posted, we see the back end of the vehicle close to where the officers are standing. Seems it might not have been too far off a roadway.

http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/canada/montreal-police-find-human-remains-linked-to-luka-rocco-magnottareport-161029115.html

Maybe some Montrealers can confirm, but I see the Metro station is Terminus Angrignon which appears to be very close to the park itself.

For the family's sake, I do hope it is Lin Jun's remains. Just makes me so sad and ill to think that once again, their son's death and recovery of his remains are being so sensationalized.

The caption on the photo says that the vehicle is leaving, fwiw. I wonder if the source is that crazy fanpage girl...hmmm

Hazel
07-01-2012, 11:21 PM
I thought the newspaper said it was found on the shoreline of a lake/pond? All I see in the photos is tall grass. Is that obstructing the view of the pond?

Found this picture on Flickr .... gives a good idea of the area:

Parc Angrignon, Montreal | Flickr - Photo Sharing!

matou
07-01-2012, 11:25 PM
Sorry. I can't see LM placing Lin Jun's head in a pond. Someone else did it, in my opinion and that would necessitate an accomplice (I never thought I would think that). He wouldn't "trash" the head. JMO

Baudi Moovan
07-01-2012, 11:28 PM
The caption on the photo says that the vehicle is leaving, fwiw. I wonder if the source is that crazy fanpage girl...hmmm

Was thinking the same thing after reading this:

"Montreal police spokesperson Anie Lemieux said investigators made their way to Park Angrignon on Sunday afternoon after the major crimes unit received a tip."

Im sure I wasnt the only person who called the Police about her statements regarding having communication with Luka while he was on the run. Perhaps they paid her a visit?

Source: http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/official-police-found-human-head-16692043

matou
07-01-2012, 11:31 PM
I think he sent the head to someone and that person got rid of it in the pond. JMO

maxfactor
07-01-2012, 11:41 PM
I think he sent the head to someone and that person got rid of it in the pond. JMO

And what a coincidence that it was found on Canada Day...

Scientific
07-01-2012, 11:44 PM
My 2 cents: They found a way to bribe Luka into talking because it was clear how important it was to the victim's family to have their son's entire body for burial. Maybe the authorities allowed him out of solitary confinement in exchange for the info, since it must have driven him mad pretty quickly since he would hate to feel controlled/trapped. His whole life has been about trying to control and fabricate a self in spite of others.

If it was a crazy fan spilling the beans, it seems likeliest to have been the Russian woman with the morbid interests. The other young woman just seemed like she needed a bf ...IMO.

I knew he didn't keep it in a locker. That just didn't add up. He didn't like to be responsible with money. Payments/submission to authority were not things he liked to bother with. I can definitely picture him taking public trans to a nature spot where he could be alone, far from people, to submerge his trophy. I had pictured him doing something like Bundy did, alone in the woods with his trophy (trophies?).

matou
07-01-2012, 11:44 PM
And what a coincidence that it was found on Canada Day...

I know. The disclosure of the girl who befriended LM is also a coincidence, and she made the news this past week. I remember reading that Karla Homolka sent Paul the clipped tail of a puppy from the vet clinic she worked at. I think LM might have sent a present to a fan as well. JMO

Sunday
07-01-2012, 11:53 PM
The caption on the photo says that the vehicle is leaving, fwiw. I wonder if the source is that crazy fanpage girl...hmmm
Do you have a link to the crazy fan girl's site?

Baudi Moovan
07-02-2012, 12:07 AM
Do you have a link to the crazy fan girl's site?

Last I checked it was removed or deactivated.

Karmady
07-02-2012, 12:57 AM
Do you have a link to the crazy fan girl's site?

no i don't...sorry. Her name is in this thread, though. I believe it's surname St. Denis (one "l") and iirc her first name is Destiny, but spelled oddly...maybe destiney? Could be wrong, though. I've been busy irl and not following closely.

eta: should say the name is in the armchair psych thread, not this one. Pretty sure that's where I saw it. Sorry!

Mozzmo
07-02-2012, 01:40 AM
Could be interesting to know more historical facts about this park. Or even more in depth info about killers he idolized and how they disposed of the bodies. Seems LM ribboned nods to so many other killers in his crime, perhaps if he placed the head in this park it has meaning attached to it in this type of manner.

Cappuccino
07-02-2012, 02:25 AM
Sorry. I can't see LM placing Lin Jun's head in a pond. Someone else did it, in my opinion and that would necessitate an accomplice (I never thought I would think that). He wouldn't "trash" the head. JMO

With hindsight, it makes sense that Magnotta would put Jun Lin's head underwater. Its not "trashing" it, there are all kinds of psychological ramifications to disposing of a body, (or body part), in water. Mothers who kill their own babies often do it, supposedly its a subconscious desire to return the baby to the womb. It can also be a way to destroy evidence.

Between wanting to hide his guilt and keep the head in a special, safe place, placing it in water seems "logical", (if you're a weirdo that kills people and chops their heads off that is).

pannekoek
07-02-2012, 02:25 AM
I guess there are a few possibilities.

1) SVPM found evidence in the trash? Bus Ticket, something?

2) Luka talked.

3) Possible Accomplice spoke up?

Pure speculation...

4) The park is also used by gays for cruising. It could be someone who noticed something strange but didnt dare to tell till now. Fear of being outed. A lot of 'straight' men with wife and kids use area's like that to have anonymous gay sex. Just speculation...

http://www.cruisinggays.com/montreal/areas/4528-parc-angrignon/#

claudicici
07-02-2012, 02:34 AM
no i don't...sorry. Her name is in this thread, though. I believe it's surname St. Denis (one "l") and iirc her first name is Destiny, but spelled oddly...maybe destiney? Could be wrong, though. I've been busy irl and not following closely.

eta: should say the name is in the armchair psych thread, not this one. Pretty sure that's where I saw it. Sorry!

https://www.facebook.com/Helter5kelter
this is her facebook.....June 22nd "- Out celebrating my success, then watching a marathon of dexter♥"....wonder what that's all about?

misstyker
07-02-2012, 03:43 AM
I honestly think it was Luka who tipped off the source, it also being Canada Day so why not tip them off this special day? Although I do believe he had "friends" on the outside, I highly doubt they would go as far as dumping the head in the park/water. It does seem weird that the head (if it is confirmed to be Lin Jun's) would be ditched in the water like that, I wonder how it ended up there...like did Luka hide it in a bag or conceal the head and drag it, something or somebody else drag it? Ugh they probably won't hear anything for at least a week to confirm 100%.

Sunday
07-02-2012, 03:46 AM
https://www.facebook.com/Helter5kelter
this is her facebook.....June 22nd "- Out celebrating my success, then watching a marathon of dexter♥"....wonder what that's all about?
She from Canada too?

pannekoek
07-02-2012, 04:01 AM
She from Canada too?

Isnt this illegal in Canada? Looks like canabis plants..

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10150194488410756&set=a.428567130755.218705.644705755&type=3

thedissent
07-02-2012, 05:28 AM
Isnt this illegal in Canada? Looks like canabis plants..

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10150194488410756&set=a.428567130755.218705.644705755&type=3

haha. looks like she has a mini grow operation. surprised no journalists have reported about the photo...

No_Stone_Unturned
07-02-2012, 06:35 AM
Regarding the missing head - please see the latest news I just posted in the news thread. A head has been found in a Montreal park, DNA tests will be done.

~n/t~
07-02-2012, 07:26 AM
I needed a break from this case so was away from this forum for a while. The latest news of the discovery is disturbing. I don't know what to make of it yet. Angrignon Park is very popular and frequented by hundreds of people year round. I'm still trying to find out the exact location where the remains were found. I'm shocked that it wasn't discovered before now if the remains are Jun Lin's.

~n/t~
07-02-2012, 07:33 AM
They keep saying just a few kilometers from Magnotta's apartment but that's not true at all unless I'm confused.

It's about an hour and half walk from his apartment in NDG to that Park. I'm saying "walk" because I don't think he had a vehicle and seriously doubt he would take the metro (subway) with remains or would he?

angela
07-02-2012, 07:37 AM
I don't know what to make of this. It is certainly not what I suspected. Putting the head in a pond just doesn't seem to fit with the rest of the crime.

Lera213
07-02-2012, 07:41 AM
In a park? And nobody finds it until now? WTH!!!!!!!!! Wonder if someone else placed it there as to not be involved any further...just a random thought. My mystery mind likes to wander every now and then.

~n/t~
07-02-2012, 07:42 AM
I think he sent the head to someone and that person got rid of it in the pond. JMO

Is it a coincidence she apologized just days before this discovery? I'm still very skeptical it was Magnotta who disposed of the remains in that Park!!

According to 21-year-old Destiney St. Denis from Saskatoon, she’s now passed the Facebook page administrator status to another person and says she feels she was “somewhat” manipulated by the now infamous Magnotta.

“I talked to him about it prior to what happened, he didn’t tell me anything about the murder, but he asked me if I could make a page about him,” said St. Denis who initially messaged Magnotta about videos he had posted online of himself suffocating kittens.


When asked why she continued communication with Magnotta she explained, “I don’t know … he would always send me hearts in messages if I don’t reply to him.”

http://metronews.ca/news/saskatoon/277753/magnotta-fan-sorry-for-any-offence/

OK she's from Saskatoon so the chances she disposed of the remains is impossible after all this time ....but I wonder about his other "fans". OR was Destiney in Montreal at any time after his arrest? This woman needs to be investigated! UGH! I can't believe there are sickos like her in this world.

Lera213
07-02-2012, 07:58 AM
What caught my eye on this link is Bolded by me:http://metronews.ca/news/saskatoon/277753/magnotta-fan-sorry-for-any-offence/




“The last message he sent me was on the fourth, right before he got caught (http://metronews.ca/news/world/254075/germany-magnotta-extradition-decision-within-days/),” she said.

St. Denis said even though she is sorry for offending people with her Facebook page, when asked if she regrets it, she said, “I don’t know.”
And when asked further if she would forgive him for manipulating her she replied, “Yes.” She answered “No comment” when asked if she would keep in touch with Magnotta.


Couldn't she be charged for impeding an investigation or helping a fugitive or something? Her smile in her picture for this article strikes me the wrong way too.

~n/t~
07-02-2012, 08:01 AM
There's a video at the link of where the remains were allegedly found.

http://www.journaldemontreal.com/2012/07/01/une-tete-humaine-aurait-ete-retrouvee

~n/t~
07-02-2012, 08:06 AM
What caught my eye on this link is Bolded by me:http://metronews.ca/news/saskatoon/277753/magnotta-fan-sorry-for-any-offence/





Couldn't she be charged for impeding an investigation or helping a fugitive or something? Her smile in her picture for this article strikes me the wrong way too.

I guess they have to have more on her than a facebook fan page. IDK

BUT I do agree with you that she should be charged with impeding an investigation. It sounds like she knew where he was before he got caught. At the very least, they should get a search warrant for her computer and start from there. I have a feeling he sent her more than just "hearts" on computer messages. Ugh!

pannekoek
07-02-2012, 08:08 AM
<snipsnip>seriously doubt he would take the metro (subway) with remains or would he?

I think he would, for sure. He also handed the boxes with bodyparts over to the people of the postoffice..

matou
07-02-2012, 08:10 AM
The head was found on the shore of a lake in Angrignon park, a few kilometres south of Magnotta's apartment where his lover, Jun Lin, was killed in late May.

Does this mean in the water or outside of the water? Was is wrapped in a container or exposed? Was is near the edge of a footpath or boardwalk?

http://www.torontosun.com/2012/07/01/human-head-found-in-montreal-park

matou
07-02-2012, 08:11 AM
OK that fan seems to be a necrophile to me. JMO. Gross.

~n/t~
07-02-2012, 08:14 AM
ok this is in french but the police spokesperson said "it" wasn't found in the water but near the water.

«Ce n'était pas dans l'eau, c'était près de l'eau», a précisé Anie Lemieux, porte-parole de la police.

http://www.lapresse.ca/actualites/quebec-canada/justice-et-faits-divers/201207/01/01-4539931-magnotta-possibles-restes-humains-retrouves.php


Also, the use of singular indicates it was ONE item. Ce n'était pas = It wasn't found.

matou
07-02-2012, 08:16 AM
ok this is in french but the police spokesperson said "it" wasn't found in the water but near the water.

«Ce n'était pas dans l'eau, c'était près de l'eau», a précisé Anie Lemieux, porte-parole de la police.

http://www.lapresse.ca/actualites/quebec-canada/justice-et-faits-divers/201207/01/01-4539931-magnotta-possibles-restes-humains-retrouves.php


Also, the use of singular indicates it was ONE item. Ce n'était pas = It wasn't found.

Thank you. That's what I just read too. It seems that the head might have been dumped. Someone in a hurry or nervous about being seen? Or a drop off for someone else to come pick it up? JMO

Sigh Sister
07-02-2012, 08:21 AM
I will be surprised if LM told them where the head was. He has a history of denying involvement in his crimes and has claimed that he has been stalked/framed in the past. News reports continue to say he is not cooperating. So, IMO, that leaves someone in the park saw it and contacted police or he has an accomplice.

~n/t~
07-02-2012, 08:23 AM
<snipsnip>

I think he would, for sure. He also handed the boxes with bodyparts over to the people of the postoffice..

OK I suppose it would be possible he would take public transit but again it would take him some time to get there and back. Unless that was the last item he disposed of before taking off to the airport? Do we know how he got to the airport?

====

To the Park:

Here is the metro map. He would've had to hop on the blue line at Cote-Des-Neiges (one stop). Then changed train to the orange line (3 stops). At Lionel Groulx, he would've had to take the green line (7 stops)! That's a heck of a long way carrying remains, imo.

http://www.stm.info/metro/mapmetro.htm

~n/t~
07-02-2012, 08:26 AM
I will be surprised if LM told them where the head was. He has a history of denying involvement in his crimes and has claimed that he has been stalked/framed in the past. News reports continue to say he is not cooperating. So, IMO, that leaves someone in the park saw it and contacted police or he has an accomplice.

I just don't see him wasting all that time walking or taking public transit, imo. He either got rides (hitch hiked) or took cabs or had an accomplice with a vehicle.

No_Stone_Unturned
07-02-2012, 08:43 AM
This is getting upsetting (as if it wasn't already upsetting).

Thoughts/questions:

1. I doubt the remains were there from late May until last night.

2. There's no way he led police to find the remains. That would admit guilt right away, why bother with a trial?

3. BIG QUESTION - you guys are talkng about a female friend of his. WHO IS THIS PERSON, PLEASE.

Thanks!

:jail:

~n/t~
07-02-2012, 08:45 AM
What is very disturbing is the remains were found on Canada Day and I'm sure Parc Angrignon was packed with people just enjoying a family day. They have all sorts of activities for children including a zoo. There's an outdoor farmer's market with fresh fruit and vegetables. I hope whoever found the remains wasn't a child. It appears the remains were found in an isolated part of the Park so hopefully it wasn't where most people were enjoying family picnics, etc.

No_Stone_Unturned
07-02-2012, 08:46 AM
Quoted from ~n/t~'s link to explain in English:

«Ce n'était pas dans l'eau, c'était près de l'eau», a précisé Anie Lemieux, porte-parole de la police.



Translation = "It wasn't found in the water, it was beside/near the water......"

~n/t~
07-02-2012, 08:47 AM
This is getting upsetting (as if it wasn't already upsetting).

Thoughts/questions:

1. I doubt the remains were there from late May until last night.

2. There's no way he led police to find the remains. That would admit guilt right away, why bother with a trial?

3. BIG QUESTION - you guys are talkng about a female friend of his. WHO IS THIS PERSON, PLEASE.

Thanks!

:jail:

Do you mean his fan? I posted about her upthread. Destiney is her name and she's from Saskatchewan.

No_Stone_Unturned
07-02-2012, 08:49 AM
Thanks ~n/t~. I'm way behind here because I'm trying to distance myself from this crime until it gets crazier in March!!

~n/t~
07-02-2012, 08:54 AM
ok this article (sorry again in french) so I'll paraphrase in English. It says it was information received that lead officers to this location. So it wasn't a physical find by someone walking the area which makes sense because it's so isolated. Someone may have called in a tip, imo.

«C'est une information reçue par les enquêteurs des crimes majeurs dans le dossier Magnotta qui les a menés au parc Angrignon», a spécifié la porte-parole du Service de police de la Ville de Montréal (SPVM), Anie Lemieux,

http://tvanouvelles.ca/lcn/infos/faitsdivers/archives/2012/07/20120701-191715.html


http://tvanouvelles.ca/archives/lcn/infos/faitsdivers/media/2012/07/20120701-191715-a.jpg

http://tvanouvelles.ca/archives/lcn/infos/faitsdivers/media/2012/07/20120701-191715-b.jpg

http://tvanouvelles.ca/archives/lcn/infos/faitsdivers/media/2012/07/20120701-191715-d.jpg

~n/t~
07-02-2012, 08:59 AM
Interesting....rereading the statement it says information received from the Magnotta file (dossier).

Thoughts anyone? Did they find something whilst looking through his computer files?

matou
07-02-2012, 08:59 AM
Montreal police spokesperson Anie Lemieux said the remains were found near a lake in the park late this afternoon after investigators received a tip.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montreal/story/2012/07/01/montreal-remains-found.html

It doesn't sound like LM revealed the info to investigators. JMO

italianWSfan
07-02-2012, 09:04 AM
This is getting upsetting (as if it wasn't already upsetting).

Thoughts/questions:

1. I doubt the remains were there from late May until last night.

2. There's no way he led police to find the remains. That would admit guilt right away, why bother with a trial?

3. BIG QUESTION - you guys are talkng about a female friend of his. WHO IS THIS PERSON, PLEASE.

Thanks!

:jail:

Why do you doubt the head was there from late May until last night?

I dont know, but I find it very possible. A human head would sink in the water, wouldnt it? If not, he probably put it in a bag along with some heavy stones. This way, it would stay under water for some time. Then as time went by, the bag got destroyed the water slowly washed it ashore?
Anyone know how big/deep this lake is? And is there a river ending in that lake? LM could also have thrown the head into a river somewhere, which took it into that lake.

Just my thoughts, but I believe that this is in fact Jun Lins head, I definitely hope so for his family!

Thank you all for the quick info and link about this update.

~n/t~
07-02-2012, 09:05 AM
Video at link....in English

http://www.sunnewsnetwork.ca/sunnews/canada/archives/2012/07/20120702-071038.html

matou
07-02-2012, 09:05 AM
Anie Lemieux, en ajoutant que l'information n'avait pas été transmise par un passant.

This means that the info/tip was not received from a passerby. Hmmmmm.

http://tvanouvelles.ca/lcn/infos/faitsdivers/archives/2012/07/20120701-191715.html

~n/t~
07-02-2012, 09:07 AM
Why do you doubt the head was there from late May until last night?

I dont know, but I find it very possible. A human head would sink in the water, wouldnt it? If not, he probably put it in a bag along with some heavy stones. This way, it would stay under water for some time. Then as time went by, the bag got destroyed the water slowly washed it ashore?
Anyone know how big/deep this lake is? And is there a river ending in that lake? LM could also have thrown the head into a river somewhere, which took it into that lake.

Just my thoughts, but I believe that this is in fact Jun Lins head, I definitely hope so for his family!

Thank you all for the quick info and link about this update.

It wasn't in water according to the spokesperson.

No_Stone_Unturned
07-02-2012, 09:09 AM
Why do you doubt the head was there from late May until last night?

I dont know, but I find it very possible. A human head would sink in the water, wouldnt it? If not, he probably put it in a bag along with some heavy stones. This way, it would stay under water for some time. Then as time went by, the bag got destroyed the water slowly washed it ashore?
Anyone know how big this lake is? And is there a river ending in that lake? LM could also have thrown the head into a river somewhere, which took it into that lake.

Just my thoughts, but I believe that this is in fact Jun Lins head, I definitely hope so for his family!

Thank you all for the quick info and link about this update.

I was simply thinking that the parc, being such a heavily populated parc, would surely have people walking all over the place and therefore the remains would have been found.

That said.......of course the remains could have been there all along, hidden in the dense growth of grasses and trees.

I also have a strong feeling that is indeed the remains of Lin Jun.

You know, I can't even imagine how much worse this is going to get once the trial starts.:maddening:

Lera213
07-02-2012, 09:15 AM
If they have his computer, it is possible that they were able to get past emails or post he made and in one of the emails or post, perhaps he stated where he put it.

I'm thinking there is going to be another arrest soon.

No_Stone_Unturned
07-02-2012, 09:17 AM
:what: I just read the part about it not being found by a passerby!

So..........did *someone* alert police? It would seem so. Then, WHO??

You know, we were talking last week (jokingly!) about sodium pentathol being used on him (I cannot even bring myself to use his stupid initials!). I'm wondering now if LE "had ways" of getting him to to spill some info.

Hmmmm............:what:

No_Stone_Unturned
07-02-2012, 09:18 AM
If they have his computer, it is possible that they were able to get past emails or post he made and in one of the emails or post, perhaps he stated where he put it.

I'm thinking there is going to be another arrest soon.

Well, if he has had help......I surely hope you're right in that.

:jail:

Mbshafeena
07-02-2012, 10:03 AM
This means that the info/tip was not received from a passerby. Hmmmmm.

http://tvanouvelles.ca/lcn/infos/faitsdivers/archives/2012/07/20120701-191715.html

You are correct and by this article the informant was female. I am starting to wonder if it was indeed the girl who started his fan page and then apologized after in the media.

Mbshafeena
07-02-2012, 10:07 AM
It could also be someone, female, who remembers seeing someone behaving strangely in the park with a box. It could be as simple as that but it was for sure a female who reported information to the police and this case.

matou
07-02-2012, 10:09 AM
It could also be someone, female, who remembers seeing someone behaving strangely in the park with a box. It could be as simple as that but it was for sure a female who reported information to the police and this case.

Where are getting that the info came from a female?

Mbshafeena
07-02-2012, 10:20 AM
The only other thing I can think of is that he travelled by subway, prior to leaving for the airport, took the metro that would take him to this park, disposed of the head, and then took the metro or I understand there are buses from this point and headed directly to the airport. Perhaps this was one of the reasons that the person sitting next to him on the flight to Paris said he smelled bad.

Mbshafeena
07-02-2012, 10:21 AM
Where are getting that the info came from a female?

Read the article and when talk about the person who gave them the information they use "la" which is female and not "le" .

Oops just read again and "la porte parole" I now see is referring to the female Officer.

Mbshafeena
07-02-2012, 10:30 AM
You know the way the article is written it could also mean that something in the notes they received with the other body parts could very well be the "information received" and not necessarily information received by an informant.

"«C'est une information reçue par les enquêteurs des crimes majeurs dans le dossier Magnotta qui les a menés au parc Angrignon», a spécifié la porte-parole du Service de police de la Ville de Montréal (SPVM), Anie Lemieux, en ajoutant que l'information n'avait pas été transmise par un passant. Mme Lemieux a indiqué que «c'est quelque chose qui ressemblerait à des restes humains» qui a été retrouvé."

Something in one of the notes alluding to a possible location. We all know how LM liked To play cat and mouse.

prima.facie
07-02-2012, 10:51 AM
Made front of Yahoo News...

Police think they found head from a victim of porn actor murderer
TORONTO (AP) — Police found what appears to be a human head in a park in Montreal and are investigating whether it is the missing head of a Chinese student who they say was dismembered by a Canadian porn actor, an official said Sunday.
http://news.yahoo.com/official-police-think-found-human-head-021823975.html

matou
07-02-2012, 10:52 AM
It's really sounding like it was a tip.

"A tip led police investigating the killing of Chinese student Jun Lin and the arrest of Luka Rocco Magnotta to a Montreal park Sunday, where remains were discovered near a small lake."

and

"They have not given the source of the tip. "

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montreal/story/2012/07/02/montreal-remains-found-link-magnotta-lin.html

italianWSfan
07-02-2012, 10:57 AM
It wasn't in water according to the spokesperson.

Just because it wasnt found in the water, doesnt necessarily mean it has never been in the water?
The article says "The head was found on the shore of a lake in Angrignon park"...
IMO:
the head was thrown in the water, and sank. So nobody noticed it, because it was under water. Someday on Saturday or Sunday it was washed ashore - someone noticed it lying there and reported the location af a suspicious item to the police, maybe anonymously (hence the "tip received").
Police were not sure if it is indeed a human head because it was probably a skull by then and they were afraid it would be fake - another Halloween product like the foot that was found in Montreal.

Or did I miss something?

matou
07-02-2012, 10:57 AM
I guess police need to determine if the head is not part of a hoax like with the foot.

~n/t~
07-02-2012, 11:10 AM
I guess police need to determine if the head is not part of a hoax like with the foot.

I think we would've heard by now if it's a hoax. The foot was plastic and almost immediately was dismissed as being real.

The question is what was found and if whatever was found is connected to this case.

I hope it is the rest of Jun Lin's remains so his family can finally take him home where he can be laid to rest. :cry:

~n/t~
07-02-2012, 11:12 AM
Police cruisers remained at a Montreal park on Monday after an object believed to be human remains was found on Canada Day.



http://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/montreal-police-continue-probe-of-possible-remains-1.862166

~n/t~
07-02-2012, 11:13 AM
I suppose it could be animal remains but I doubt it.

~n/t~
07-02-2012, 11:19 AM
Parc Angrignon: In Brief


An especially family-friendly park in Montreal, Parc Angrignon is 97 hectares (240 acres) of mildly manicured grounds with over 20,000 trees, including a iris and weeping willow-lined pond. Just a short walk from Angrignon Metro station, the park has a playground and is in close proximity to a farm with 25 animal species, open free to the public. The grounds also include Fort Angrignon, a "fortress" filled with physical challenges involving mazes and rock climbing walls. Ample picnicking facilities are available on site, including barbecues, but you'll have to bring your own matches to light them.

http://montreal.about.com/od/montrealparks/a/parc_angrignon_montreal_parks.htm


If he took the subway, he didn't have to walk very far to get to the park. I still can't imagine someone on the metro carrying remains in a box or suitcase or whatever. It's like one of those horror movies. :(

No_Stone_Unturned
07-02-2012, 11:20 AM
I believe it's Lin Jun's remains because LE have contacted his family about today's discovery. (It's in one of the links here).

I find it odd that LE are not "giving the source of the tip"..... that tells me that LE knows exactly from whom the tip came.

This gets more bizarre by the moment. :eek:

No_Stone_Unturned
07-02-2012, 11:24 AM
Quoted from ~n/t~ above:

If he took the subway, he didn't have to walk very far to get to the park. I still can't imagine someone on the metro carrying remains in a box or suitcase or whatever. It's like one of those horror movies.


But really......would anything this freakin' lunatic did amaze us now? I know, I know......the Montreal Metro is so nice (much nicer than the subway in Toronto) it's just impossible for us to imagine that he'd take it on the Metro. But, we're dealing with a socio/psychopath here. He's really horrific!

:maddening:

CuriousRus
07-02-2012, 11:38 AM
Just because it wasnt found in the water, doesnt necessarily mean it has never been in the water?
The article says "The head was found on the shore of a lake in Angrignon park"...
IMO:
the head was thrown in the water, and sank. So nobody noticed it, because it was under water. Someday on Saturday or Sunday it was washed ashore - someone noticed it lying there and reported the location af a suspicious item to the police, maybe anonymously (hence the "tip received").
Police were not sure if it is indeed a human head because it was probably a skull by then and they were afraid it would be fake - another Halloween product like the foot that was found in Montreal.

Or did I miss something?

The only thing I question is whether the tip was called in based on someone actually finding the head while at the park or someone just having knowledge of the head (LM's legal team? or someone LM confided in prior to the arrest). Do any of the articles make this clear?

Mbshafeena
07-02-2012, 11:44 AM
It's really sounding like it was a tip.

"A tip led police investigating the killing of Chinese student Jun Lin and the arrest of Luka Rocco Magnotta to a Montreal park Sunday, where remains were discovered near a small lake."

and

"They have not given the source of the tip. "

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montreal/story/2012/07/02/montreal-remains-found-link-magnotta-lin.html

The tip could
Have come from a person, or something they received which led them to perhaps a location. Those notes could have mentioned a lake, pond, park, we won't know till later what they meant and the language used can be interpreted diferenly from the French version of the story versus the English story.

thedissent
07-02-2012, 11:54 AM
From a different thread, my thoughts on the possibility that the "tip" came from LRM's legal team:

It's hard to say, but it's not impossible. Since the Homolka / Bernardo video debacle-- where their first lawyer failed to disclose a video of the couples' various crimes-- many law societies "clarified" the ethical obligations of criminal defense lawyers: that such evidence ought to be disclosed, but in a way that also protects the lawyer's client.

One of the ways in which a lawyer can meet his or her obligations-- that is, both the duty to his or her client and the need to disclose evidence to the police-- is to do so anonymously. Thus, the police get the relevant evidence, and there is no obvious link back to the client (the way there would be if the lawyer himself disclosed the evidence).

Qualification: this is merely speculation; I'm only saying that the legal team should not be ruled out. I don't think we'll ever know either way, even if it was one of LRM's lawyers.

Mozzmo
07-02-2012, 12:05 PM
I agree with others who find the location of the head a bit disjointed from the rest of LM's crime (no pun intended). Maybe the LE are being evasive about the "tip" because they got it from the computer and don't want to let LM know just how much and what kind of info they are getting off his computer at this time. No matter how much incriminating info they have, a confession from LM would be best case scenario in presecuting him. I suppose it could be included in an email or text he sent. That would be a confession IMO. No one but LM would know where the head was put. On the other hand, if LE found searches on LM's computer about the park or how to get there through the public transit system, that could have tipped them off to go and look with the most obvious place to start being the pond.

pannekoek
07-02-2012, 12:50 PM
If he dumbed the head in the lake thinking it would stay there forever, it makes sence. Then he would have hidden the ‘trophie’ and would be the only one to know where it was. That would give him control/power over us, even when caught he could keep playing his cat and mouse games and feel like a genius. Just like the Moors murderer.

Haunted82
07-02-2012, 12:54 PM
I agree with others who find the location of the head a bit disjointed from the rest of LM's crime (no pun intended). Maybe the LE are being evasive about the "tip" because they got it from the computer and don't want to let LM know just how much and what kind of info they are getting off his computer at this time. No matter how much incriminating info they have, a confession from LM would be best case scenario in presecuting him. I suppose it could be included in an email or text he sent. That would be a confession IMO. No one but LM would know where the head was put. On the other hand, if LE found searches on LM's computer about the park or how to get there through the public transit system, that could have tipped them off to go and look with the most obvious place to start being the pond.

That's a very realistic possiblity. Remember, they subpoena the internet records so they can scan through everywhere he was online (at least from his home connection and his devices) , so that could easily show if there was research being done for that park.

matou
07-02-2012, 01:13 PM
That park seems pretty large. I think LE found the head due to a specific tip, so specific that LE didn't need to search very long to find it. JMO.

sillybilly
07-02-2012, 01:16 PM
That park seems pretty large. I think LE found the head due to a specific tip, so specific that LE didn't need to search very long to find it. JMO.

I agree matou ... IMO, a tip is a tip (heh, another profundity from sb ;) ). Seriously though, had LE simply found info on his computer, it would more than likely be worded along the lines of "as a result of ongoing investigation ....".

Sunday
07-02-2012, 01:19 PM
It's possible that a communication between Luka and someone else was intercepted by jail officials. However, I'd like to think that both Luka and anyone else would be smart enough not to include anything incriminating in jail correspondences.

It is likely that the crazy fan girl agreed to manipulate Luka into sharing information as part of a deal with LE to avoid prosecution for her role in communications while he was on the run. That's IF she is credible in the first place.

sillybilly
07-02-2012, 01:29 PM
Remember this pic that elepher posted and we were trying to figure out where it was in Vancouver?

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Luka Rocco Magnotta: charged with first degree murder; worldwide red alert:INTERPOL


I don't know a date or elepher's source for the pic, but LRM's comment was "Luka's favourite resort in Vancouver". When i first saw the pic, my thought was "that looks more like Ontario or Quebec". Mind you, the body of water looks too big to be in Angrignon Park, but can't help but wonder if it was a hint (more along the lines of a taunt).

sillybilly
07-02-2012, 01:39 PM
Hey WSrs ... Tricia's post about the Sandusky and Fr. Michael Kelly victims had the misfortune of landing on this forum about the same time this news broke yesterday. Although it's not related to this case, please read her post and acknowledge it, even if you can' find the right words at the moment.

Please Offer Words of Support to the Victim's of Abuse at the Hands of Jerry Sandusky - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community

Baudi Moovan
07-02-2012, 01:48 PM
Starting at about 1:45m in (Please note that I typed this up while listening and there might be one or two words mistyped or out of place!)

‎"The Police tell us it was *not* a passerby that made the discovery, rather it was throughout the Magnotta investigation, they were doing thier work. They received a piece of information that led them to a very specific spot and based on what we could see and hear yesterday afternoon it seems like the police arrived on site, knew exactly where to look, found it, and by 9:20pm they were ready to leave"

http://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/montreal-police-continue-probe-of-possible-remains-1.862166

pannekoek
07-02-2012, 02:16 PM
Hmz, received? So someone send/gave/told them? You dont 'recieve' something by reviewing evidence? Them also saying it was though them doing their job sort of implies that the found a person that then gave them the information.

They are being very cryptical for someone whose first language isnt english. Im confused... can someone clarify, please?

Mozzmo
07-02-2012, 02:25 PM
Maybe the received something from the specialists working on reviewing the information stored on LM's computer/cell phone. The part I found puzzling is knowing exactly where to go in the park....

Mozzmo
07-02-2012, 02:33 PM
Knowing how fascinated LM was with the Moor murders...perhaps he had some sort of photo that marked the spot where the head could be found...even if taken without the head in sight. So like the Moor murders it could look like a benign landscape photo or posing benignly in the landscape, yet it was really a reminder of where a trophy was kept. Additionally, if it were photo images that led to finding the head, depending on the devise used it may have date/time stamps on it that fit the timeline of the crime and the dispensing of the parts. The Moor murders took place within rolling grassy hills and a riverbed area. The park would be the closest and most convenient wilderness for LM to mimic this if that was his plan.

pannekoek
07-02-2012, 02:37 PM
Was the statement by police made in french or english?

pannekoek
07-02-2012, 02:39 PM
That Mozzmo is excellent thinking!

Shimmers
07-02-2012, 02:47 PM
I just heared this news this morning, before leaving for work. It's justs gets weirder and weirder.

How can a head be in/near a pond can be unnoticed for 4 weeks? Aren't there park cleaners or some sort? The smell of decomb get through bonemarrow. Even if it was dumped in the water, hidden in a bag, it would still float to the surface due to the decomb gasses after some time. Mostly human remains found in the water ( who have been there for 2-3 weeks ) are inflated like no other. If this was the case, then it could be why they cannot say it is a human head that was found for the fully 100%.
( sorry about being so graphic but someone i knew, worked for a funeral company and also picked up bodies from crime scenes and bodies found in the water )

Going to the excact location of the park is inside information, or perp knowledge ( as we say it here ). If this info comes from a third person, or info regarding a third person ( hmmm lets say an email or a text message ), then omg what kind of cesspool are we gonna get???

Still, there is another option which would be, ofcourse, the most likey one to believe.... it was Manny *dun dun* ;)

Tucarra
07-02-2012, 03:06 PM
[QUOTE=~n/t~;8107936]ok this article (sorry again in french) so I'll paraphrase in English. It says it was information received that lead officers to this location. So it wasn't a physical find by someone walking the area which makes sense because it's so isolated. Someone may have called in a tip, imo.



http://tvanouvelles.ca/lcn/infos/faitsdivers/archives/2012/07/20120701-191715.html

matou
07-02-2012, 03:07 PM
I just heared this news this morning, before leaving for work. It's justs gets weirder and weirder.

How can a head be in/near a pond can be unnoticed for 4 weeks? Aren't there park cleaners or some sort? The smell of decomb get through bonemarrow. Even if it was dumped in the water, hidden in a bag, it would still float to the surface due to the decomb gasses after some time. Mostly human remains found in the water ( who have been there for 2-3 weeks ) are inflated like no other. If this was the case, then it could be why they cannot say it is a human head that was found for the fully 100%.
( sorry about being so graphic but someone i knew, worked for a funeral company and also picked up bodies from crime scenes and bodies found in the water )

Going to the excact location of the park is inside information, or perp knowledge ( as we say it here ). If this info comes from a third person, or info regarding a third person ( hmmm lets say an email or a text message ), then omg what kind of cesspool are we gonna get???

Still, there is another option which would be, ofcourse, the most likey one to believe.... it was Manny *dun dun* ;)

I agree. An animal would have moved the head around if it was just there exposed for weeks. The stink in the heat would have been noticeable.

Tucarra
07-02-2012, 03:15 PM
This is the only video I have seen that is directly from a police spokesperson, Const. Annie Lemieux. Her statement is in French. I am a native Montrealer, and although anglophone, I am bilingual. I would be hard-pressed to interpret her reference to "une information recu" (sorry French keyboard not set up atm) any other way than an actual tip was received. "Recu" = received, as opposed to "decouvert = discovered", "trouve" = "found", "a sorti" = "emerged" , etc....

Perhaps a bilingual francophone could offer a perspective...?

Or just wait for statement from Ian Lafraniere...

matou
07-02-2012, 03:18 PM
TVA Nouvelles a appris que c'est bel et bien une tête humaine qui a été retrouvée, hier, dans le parc Angrignon (http://tvanouvelles.ca/lcn/infos/faitsdivers/archives/2012/07/20120701-191715.html), à Montréal. Il faudra toutefois attendre encore quelques jours pour savoir s'il s'agit de celle de Jun Lin, victime présumée de Luka Rocco Magnotta.

This is saying that TVA news has learned that it is in fact a human head that was found in the park. It will take some time to determine whether the head belongs to Lin Jun.

http://tvanouvelles.ca/lcn/infos/faitsdivers/archives/2012/07/20120702-134247.html

Channy
07-02-2012, 03:18 PM
Tucarra, you're right. She said that a tip was received and she even mentioned that the information was NOT given by someone who found the head.

Cappuccino
07-02-2012, 03:28 PM
This is the only video I have seen that is directly from a police spokesperson, Const. Annie Lemieux. Her statement is in French. I am a native Montrealer, and although anglophone, I am bilingual. I would be hard-pressed to interpret her reference to "une information recu" (sorry French keyboard not set up atm) any other way than an actual tip was received. "Recu" = received, as opposed to "decouvert = discovered", "trouve" = "found", "a sorti" = "emerged" , etc....

Perhaps a bilingual francophone could offer a perspective...?

Or just wait for statement from Ian Lafraniere...

I'm another bilingual anglophone who interpreted the statement the same as yourself.

Maybe he blabbed to someone inside prison? Magnotta doesn't seem a very discreet type.

Mbshafeena
07-02-2012, 03:36 PM
This is the only video I have seen that is directly from a police spokesperson, Const. Annie Lemieux. Her statement is in French. I am a native Montrealer, and although anglophone, I am bilingual. I would be hard-pressed to interpret her reference to "une information recu" (sorry French keyboard not set up atm) any other way than an actual tip was received. "Recu" = received, as opposed to "decouvert = discovered", "trouve" = "found", "a sorti" = "emerged" , etc....

Perhaps a bilingual francophone could offer a perspective...?

Or just wait for statement from Ian Lafraniere...

I am French, my first language, and it could mean that in the notes received in the boxes with the other body parts was something written that the police finally deciphered to be this specific location. I am not convinced that another individual knew where it was from the get go. Why would they wait all this time?

Channy
07-02-2012, 03:38 PM
I just heard on TV that LE confirmed that the remain found is actually a human head. They are performing tests to determine if it's JL's head.

~n/t~
07-02-2012, 03:42 PM
This is the only video I have seen that is directly from a police spokesperson, Const. Annie Lemieux. Her statement is in French. I am a native Montrealer, and although anglophone, I am bilingual. I would be hard-pressed to interpret her reference to "une information recu" (sorry French keyboard not set up atm) any other way than an actual tip was received. "Recu" = received, as opposed to "decouvert = discovered", "trouve" = "found", "a sorti" = "emerged" , etc....

Perhaps a bilingual francophone could offer a perspective...?

Or just wait for statement from Ian Lafraniere...

Isn't that what I posted? :waitasec: Information "received". Not sure where your confusion is.

I'm fluently bilingual and from Montreal. When I posted that this morning we were trying to find out how they received this information? Tip? From information in his computer? A note sent with one of the earlier body parts? etc etc etc

Sunday
07-02-2012, 03:48 PM
I am French, my first language, and it could mean that in the notes received in the boxes with the other body parts was something written that the police finally deciphered to be this specific location. I am not convinced that another individual knew where it was from the get go. Why would they wait all this time?
It's hard to say, but they did specify that the "tip was received on Sunday afternoon" which makes it sound like someone informed LE. If they uncovered anything during the normal investigation they would have probably said something like, "following up on a lead or development in the investigation."

Keep in mind that LE often words things to be intentionally vague and/or misleading because they are still gathering information in an ongoing investigation. Giving out accurate details can compromise an investigation.

Sierra20
07-02-2012, 03:48 PM
I'm another bilingual anglophone who interpreted the statement the same as yourself.

Maybe he blabbed to someone inside prison? Magnotta doesn't seem a very discreet type.

I thought he is in solitary confinement... or he could still get the chance to blab to another prisoner?

pannekoek
07-02-2012, 03:49 PM
Not sure where your confusion is.

The confusion was here. Tucara only clarified something :)

~n/t~
07-02-2012, 03:51 PM
It's hard to say, but they did specify that the "tip was received on Sunday afternoon" which makes it sound like someone informed LE. If they uncovered anything during the normal investigation they would have probably said something like, "following up on a lead or development in the investigation."

Keep in mind that LE often words things to be intentionally vague and/or misleading because they are still gathering information in an ongoing investigation. Giving out accurate details can compromise an investigation.

I haven't seen it where it was specified a "tip was received Sunday afternoon". Do you have a link for that? I'm in and out today because of the holiday and would like to read it later.

Gotta go for now.

Baudi Moovan
07-02-2012, 03:58 PM
So funny; I literally was just having this debate about 'received' vs 'found' elsewhere. Good stuff :)

Sierra20
07-02-2012, 04:00 PM
Knowing how fascinated LM was with the Moor murders...perhaps he had some sort of photo that marked the spot where the head could be found...even if taken without the head in sight. So like the Moor murders it could look like a benign landscape photo or posing benignly in the landscape, yet it was really a reminder of where a trophy was kept. Additionally, if it were photo images that led to finding the head, depending on the devise used it may have date/time stamps on it that fit the timeline of the crime and the dispensing of the parts. The Moor murders took place within rolling grassy hills and a riverbed area. The park would be the closest and most convenient wilderness for LM to mimic this if that was his plan.

I don't agree with all this speculation it was considered a trophy. I think it is totally over-thinking. LM had to dispose of the head somewhere, to him it was something he had to get rid of before he went on the run. IMO

matou
07-02-2012, 04:02 PM
I don't agree with all this speculation it was considered a trophy. I think it is totally over-thinking. LM had to dispose of the head somewhere, to him it was something he had to get rid of before he went on the run. IMO

But why not just dispose of it with the other garbage with the torso?

Tucarra
07-02-2012, 04:02 PM
I am French, my first language, and it could mean that in the notes received in the boxes with the other body parts was something written that the police finally deciphered to be this specific location. I am not convinced that another individual knew where it was from the get go. Why would they wait all this time?


Along these same lines...and this may be a wild tangent, but as much of a presumable narcissist as he is, with a penchant for photo, film, drama, and shock.....find it difficult he'd 'relinquish' control to someone else to 'pass along' the message

Is it possible he mailed photos of the scene at the park somewhere ? perhaps time-delayed (to China, Russia, wherever?)....and the recipient then had to assess, interpret, solve , or forward to Montreal LE for interpretation ?

Crazy thinking, but this is crazy case...

pannekoek
07-02-2012, 04:05 PM
I don't agree with all this speculation it was considered a trophy. I think it is totally over-thinking. LM had to dispose of the head somewhere, to him it was something he had to get rid of before he went on the run. IMO

If that was the fact, then why didnt he leave it with the rest of the 'garbage'
in the alley or just dump it in a garbage container?

Baudi Moovan
07-02-2012, 04:08 PM
I don't think it was a trophy in the sense that it was something that he would cherish or visit (if he were free to do so). I think the information about the head was the trophy. The fact that he knew, and LE & General Public didn't. I think that's his trophy. Just another way for him to Troll everyone and be a jackass.

katriana
07-02-2012, 04:12 PM
If that was the fact, then why didnt he leave it with the rest of the 'garbage'
in the alley or just dump it in a garbage container?


i think perhaps he separated the dump sites for identification purposes, to give him time to get out of dodge, so to speak...if the head was found with the torso, it would possibly be identified faster...thus luka would have been possibly captured while still in canada...just my opinion...

Apple OC
07-02-2012, 04:16 PM
I haven't seen it where it was specified a "tip was received Sunday afternoon". Do you have a link for that? I'm in and out today because of the holiday and would like to read it later.

Gotta go for now.

this news article reported a "tip was received Sunday afternoon"

http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2012/07/01/human-remains-montreal-angrignon-park_n_1641879.html?utm_hp_ref=canada

I do not think the tip came from LRM ... I would not be suprised to see another arrest soon.

pannekoek
07-02-2012, 04:21 PM
i think perhaps he separated the dump sites for identification purposes, to give him time to get out of dodge, so to speak...if the head was found with the torso, it would possibly be identified faster...thus luka would have been possibly captured while still in canada...just my opinion...

That would have made sence if he hadnt put the kill video online.. IMO

Sierra20
07-02-2012, 04:22 PM
But why not just dispose of it with the other garbage with the torso?

If that was the fact, then why didnt he leave it with the rest of the 'garbage'
in the alley or just dump it in a garbage container?

I think he was just trying to hide the body parts in order to evade capture and get out of Canada. I tend to think its that simple. Maybe he found it difficult to carry both the torso and the head to the park via the metro, would the head be lighter to carry than the torso? Or its just too heavy to carry both? So he thought he would just dispose of the torso with the garbage, and just take the head to the park...

Mozzmo
07-02-2012, 04:22 PM
I don't agree with all this speculation it was considered a trophy. I think it is totally over-thinking. LM had to dispose of the head somewhere, to him it was something he had to get rid of before he went on the run. IMO

The head didn't technically have to be a trophy in order for LM to use it in a manner that copied the Moor murders. He knew that authorities would want the head in particular as well as the family. So why not continue the cat/mouse game which is his calling card, and do something with the head that left authorities hunting for it, or gave him a secret card to play at a later date. It's just a theory/possibility. If the head meant nothing to him as you assert, then why not just put it in the trash with the torso? Why go all the way to the park to dispose of it? It meant something different to LM because he treated it different.

otto
07-02-2012, 04:24 PM
I haven't seen it where it was specified a "tip was received Sunday afternoon". Do you have a link for that? I'm in and out today because of the holiday and would like to read it later.

Gotta go for now.

In the few articles I've read, "information obtained during the investigation of Magnotta led investigators to the Montreal park" on Sunday afternoon. The park was closed and police used dogs to search. They found human remains and sent them for testing.

It would be pretty weird if they had the information a week ago and did nothing about it ... so it's obvious to me that they searched the park immediately after obtaining the information.

otto
07-02-2012, 04:29 PM
Isn't that what I posted? :waitasec: Information "received". Not sure where your confusion is.

I'm fluently bilingual and from Montreal. When I posted that this morning we were trying to find out how they received this information? Tip? From information in his computer? A note sent with one of the earlier body parts? etc etc etc

Perhaps it should be "information obtained". 'Received' implies that it was delivered to them, 'obtained' implies that they discovered the information during the course of their investigation. By using terms that are obtuse, it's obvious that police do not want media and others interfering with the investigation by attempting to sleuth out the source of their information.

Sigh Sister
07-02-2012, 04:32 PM
this news article reported a "tip was received Sunday afternoon"

http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2012/07/01/human-remains-montreal-angrignon-park_n_1641879.html?utm_hp_ref=canada

I do not think the tip came from LRM ... I would not be suprised to see another arrest soon.

From your link:

"Montreal's Major Crime Squad cordoned off parts of the Angrignon Park in the city's west end after the discovery was made following a tip on Sunday."

Sierra20
07-02-2012, 04:33 PM
That would have made sence if he hadnt put the kill video online.. IMO

Well if he wasn't concerned about getting captured then why not just stay in Canada and not go on the run?

No_Stone_Unturned
07-02-2012, 04:35 PM
A TIP:

http://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/investigation-into-jun-lin-killing-leads-police-to-montreal-park-1.862166

Police are saying very little else about the discovery, but have said they were brought to the park by a tip in connection to the murder of Lin, a 33-year-old computer engineering student and Chinese national, who was gruesomely murdered and dismembered in late May.



Read more: http://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/investigation-into-jun-lin-killing-leads-police-to-montreal-park-1.862166#ixzz1zV2ehuCn

thedissent
07-02-2012, 04:37 PM
i don't think it was a trophy in the sense that it was something that he would cherish or visit (if he were free to do so). I think the information about the head was the trophy. The fact that he knew, and le & general public didn't. I think that's his trophy. Just another way for him to troll everyone and be a jackass.

+1000.

Sierra20
07-02-2012, 04:40 PM
The head didn't technically have to be a trophy in order for LM to use it in a manner that copied the Moor murders. He knew that authorities would want the head in particular as well as the family. So why not continue the cat/mouse game which is his calling card, and do something with the head that left authorities hunting for it, or gave him a secret card to play at a later date. It's just a theory/possibility. If the head meant nothing to him as you assert, then why not just put it in the trash with the torso? Why go all the way to the park to dispose of it? It meant something different to LM because he treated it different.

Well it is a human head, I mean it is a bit different to other parts of the body. It's like the main part of the body! Maybe it would be the part you would want to get rid of somewhere far away, or put more thought in where to dispose of it.

otto
07-02-2012, 04:47 PM
A TIP:

http://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/investigation-into-jun-lin-killing-leads-police-to-montreal-park-1.862166

Police are saying very little else about the discovery, but have said they were brought to the park by a tip in connection to the murder of Lin, a 33-year-old computer engineering student and Chinese national, who was gruesomely murdered and dismembered in late May.



Read more: http://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/investigation-into-jun-lin-killing-leads-police-to-montreal-park-1.862166#ixzz1zV2ehuCn

Per CBC ... same thing ... a tip received on Sunday afternoon.

Shimmers
07-02-2012, 05:08 PM
Maybe I'm think a bit too far, but I was studying the metro-map (kindly provided by ~n/t~) and the map of Montreal and something stood out to me.
He lived around may 2011 in the rue charlevoix area, same as around feb 2012. From the metreo station at Charlevoix it is only a few stops to that park, same is for the Decarie blvd, although he has to travel longer and has to switch lines. On the map the distance between both adresses and that park don't differ that much. So my thoughts were this: he lived at a reasonable travelling distance from the park and from what I've read it is also known as a gay cruising area. Him being known for doing tricks with men, does it sound too crazy if i think that he might have been a visitor after dark in the park? Maybe even know the "hidden spots" to preform his devastatingly good looking act?

I don't know how long a metro ride would take from both adresses to the park, but maybe some Montrealers would be so kind to shed a light on this?

If i'm overboard on this one just say so... but this is just a thought after studying the maps. ( which by now i know my way in Montreal if i ever going to visit it hehe )

Sunday
07-02-2012, 05:11 PM
I haven't seen it where it was specified a "tip was received Sunday afternoon". Do you have a link for that? I'm in and out today because of the holiday and would like to read it later.

Gotta go for now.
I am on way out the door but will dredge up link upon return. I want to say it was CBS article online but can't recall. I'll get back to you!

matou
07-02-2012, 05:24 PM
Maybe I'm think a bit too far, but I was studying the metro-map (kindly provided by ~n/t~) and the map of Montreal and something stood out to me.
He lived around may 2011 in the rue charlevoix area, same as around feb 2012. From the metreo station at Charlevoix it is only a few stops to that park, same is for the Decarie blvd, although he has to travel longer and has to switch lines. On the map the distance between both adresses and that park don't differ that much. So my thoughts were this: he lived at a reasonable travelling distance from the park and from what I've read it is also known as a gay cruising area. Him being known for doing tricks with men, does it sound too crazy if i think that he might have been a visitor after dark in the park? Maybe even know the "hidden spots" to preform his devastatingly good looking act?

I don't know how long a metro ride would take from both adresses to the park, but maybe some Montrealers would be so kind to shed a light on this?

If i'm overboard on this one just say so... but this is just a thought after studying the maps. ( which by now i know my way in Montreal if i ever going to visit it hehe )

I read in the Toronto Star that the driving distance from his last address to the location of the head is 14 minutes and the public transit would take 34 minutes.

map from the link: Boulevard Décarie & Place Lucy, Montréal, QC H3X 3Z4, Canada to Angrignon Park, Montréal, Québec, Canada - Google Maps

http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/article/1220185--luka-rocco-magnotta-head-found-in-montreal-park

Donyale
07-02-2012, 06:28 PM
i think perhaps he separated the dump sites for identification purposes, to give him time to get out of dodge, so to speak...if the head was found with the torso, it would possibly be identified faster...thus luka would have been possibly captured while still in canada...just my opinion...

I agree... It is not uncommon to spread around across the city the body parts, this is exactly what drug dealers who kill junkies in debt do here where I live, this modus operandis makes a lot harder for the police to identify the victim. I hope it's JL head, at least it gives some closure and his family can bury their son. I will wait for the dna results.

HastingsChi
07-02-2012, 06:52 PM
If this discovery turns out to be the remains of Jun Lin, it raises more questions than provides answers...

More importantly, would folks agree that the tip likely came from an individual who simply stumbled upon the remains or is it more likely that it came from someone with intimate knowledge of the crime and it's aftermath?




Sent from my Samsung Galaxy S 2

HastingsChi
07-02-2012, 06:55 PM
I agree... It is not uncommon to spread around across the city the body parts, this is exactly what drug dealers who kill junkies in debt do here where I live, this modus operandis makes a lot harder for the police to identify the victim. I hope it's JL head, at least it gives some closure and his family can bury their son. I will wait for the dna results.

I completely agree with your logic, but when related to Magnotta it doesn't fit the pattern of an attention seeking fame whore... Then again not much about Magnotta's actions seems to fit a specific model...




Sent from my Samsung Galaxy S 2

matou
07-02-2012, 06:57 PM
If this discovery turns out to be the remains of Jun Lin, it raises more questions than provides answers...

More importantly, would folks agree that the tip likely came from an individual who simply stumbled upon the remains or is it more likely that it came from someone with intimate knowledge of the crime and it's aftermath?




Sent from my Samsung Galaxy S 2

There was a report that LE stated it was not found as a result of a passerby. From a french article earlier today.

HastingsChi
07-02-2012, 07:02 PM
There was a report that LE stated it was not found as a result of a passerby. From a french article earlier today.

Thanks matou! But might it come from someone anonymously who stumbled on it and reported it later? I ask because someone mentioned the location being a cruising area and let's say a married, closeted seemingly heterosexual male made the discovery and need to report it in such a manner as to not be connected to a gay cruising area himself?



Sent from my Samsung Galaxy S 2

matou
07-02-2012, 07:11 PM
Thanks matou! But might it come from someone anonymously who stumbled on it and reported it later? I ask because someone mentioned the location being a cruising area and let's say a married, closeted seemingly heterosexual male made the discovery and need to report it in such a manner as to not be connected to a gay cruising area himself?



Sent from my Samsung Galaxy S 2

True enough but the "tip" came in on a national holiday, yesterday was Canada Day. I'm guessing there would be a lot of people in the park and it would make clandestine meetings a bit risky. It would be believable that someone just stumbled upon it if it left out in in the open with many people walking around and someone might have noticed a raunchy smell. But LE stated that the tip was not from a passerby.

EDIT: oh I see. Maybe someone called in an anonymous tip based on seeing it earlier. OK.

Sigh Sister
07-02-2012, 07:11 PM
Thanks matou! But might it come from someone anonymously who stumbled on it and reported it later? I ask because someone mentioned the location being a cruising area and let's say a married, closeted seemingly heterosexual male made the discovery and need to report it in such a manner as to not be connected to a gay cruising area himself?



Sent from my Samsung Galaxy S 2

Makes sense! More so than someone who has intimate knowledge suddenly deciding to have a conscience.

Sigh Sister
07-02-2012, 07:15 PM
True enough but the "tip" came in on a national holiday, yesterday was Canada Day. I'm guessing there would be a lot of people in the park and it would make clandestine meetings a bit risky. It would be believable that someone just stumbled upon it if it left out in in the open with many people walking around and someone might have noticed a raunchy smell. But LE stated that the tip was not from a passerby.

Maybe the person saw it before yesterday, and it took some time for them to report it? And the person may have been very vague regarding their tip due to being paranoid about being associated with this "cruising"area?

HastingsChi
07-02-2012, 07:20 PM
Makes sense! More so than someone who has intimate knowledge suddenly deciding to have a conscience.

I tend to agree but with reservations-- in all our sleuthing we've not been able to point to one individual who in the last 18 months could be identified as a potential friend or acquaintance of Magnotta, this would make the idea of an accomplice hard to accept... However, given No_Stone's brilliant analysis earlier about the specific targets of all things Canada, the discovery occurring on Canada Day gives credence to the idea of someone with intimate knowledge providing the tip...

Color me perplexed.

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy S 2

Baudi Moovan
07-02-2012, 07:22 PM
I tend to agree but with reservations-- in all our sleuthing we've not been able to point to one individual who in the last 18 months could be identified as a potential friend or acquaintance of Magnotta, this would make the idea of an accomplice hard to accept... However, given No_Stone's brilliant analysis earlier about the specific targets of all things Canada, the discovery occurring on Canada Day gives credence to the idea of someone with intimate knowledge providing the tip...

Color me perplexed.

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy S 2

He absolutely had at least two friends during this time period. Im not trying to be super secret in not revealing who they were, as I cant go into details but I can say with certainty that he did. Ill say this upfront too: I respect your right to disagree or not believe me on this, Id question me about it too.

Mbshafeena
07-02-2012, 07:25 PM
What if, when on the run, he decided to sent an electronic card, a Canada Day Celebration card, that some sites offer free of charge, and where you can choose what day it is to be delivered. He could have sent this to the Montreal police with a clue to where the head is. He could have sent such a card anytime before he was caught and anonymously.

matou
07-02-2012, 07:28 PM
He absolutely had at least two friends during this time period. Im not trying to be super secret in not revealing who they were, as I cant go into details but I can say with certainty that he did. Ill say this upfront too: I respect your right to disagree or not believe me on this, Id question me about it too.

I believe it. Someone was taking photos of him around town. I don't think he was living in a bubble, he must have had at least one friend in town.

Mbshafeena
07-02-2012, 07:28 PM
He absolutely had at least two friends during this time period. Im not trying to be super secret in not revealing who they were, as I cant go into details but I can say with certainty that he did. Ill say this upfront too: I respect your right to disagree or not believe me on this, Id question me about it too.

If this is the case and one of his friends finally came forward could they not be charged with obstructing justice or accessory after the fact...?

Apple OC
07-02-2012, 07:32 PM
I personally do not think it is a casual person that saw the head and then decided to come forward later for fear of being outed. There are umpteen reasons one could give for being in the park. This tip is big news.

This may be the first real clue that someone other than LRM knows something and has tipped police. The police may be tight lipped about the discovery because they may also be floored by this and are still trying to figure out where the tip came from.

HastingsChi
07-02-2012, 07:33 PM
He absolutely had at least two friends during this time period. Im not trying to be super secret in not revealing who they were, as I cant go into details but I can say with certainty that he did. Ill say this upfront too: I respect your right to disagree or not believe me on this, Id question me about it too.

I have no reason to doubt you- you've been consistently spot-on with almost everything you've shared.

In your opinion, would these two individuals be considered to be his: Friends? Acquaintances? Enablers? Something else?



Sent from my Samsung Galaxy S 2

~n/t~
07-02-2012, 07:56 PM
I am on way out the door but will dredge up link upon return. I want to say it was CBS article online but can't recall. I'll get back to you!

No worries. Others have posted the link. Thanks!!

~n/t~
07-02-2012, 07:58 PM
I read in the Toronto Star that the driving distance from his last address to the location of the head is 14 minutes and the public transit would take 34 minutes.

map from the link: Boulevard Décarie & Place Lucy, Montréal, QC H3X 3Z4, Canada to Angrignon Park, Montréal, Québec, Canada - Google Maps (http://maps.google.com/maps?saddr=Boulevard+D%C3%A9carie+%26+Place+Lucy,+ Montr%C3%A9al,+QC+H3X+3Z4,+Canada&daddr=Parc+Angrignon,+Montreal,+Canada&hl=en&ie=UTF8&sll=45.487461,-73.638227&sspn=0.011403,0.01929&geocode=FWUVtgIdrV6c-yntsKUs4BnJTDGte7juvajueQ%3BFf9stQId1euc-yFeBfLPNQ6nbSmRzhELHRHJTDFeBfLPNQ6nbQ&oq=Parc+An&t=h&mra=ls&z=14)

http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/article/1220185--luka-rocco-magnotta-head-found-in-montreal-park

Correct. Then he would have to walk to the location where he disposed of the remains. Did he go back to the apartment afterwards? So many questions.....

I still question how he got to the airport? Does anybody know? Did I miss the discussion?

sillybilly
07-02-2012, 08:09 PM
Correct. Then he would have to walk to the location where he disposed of the remains. Did he go back to the apartment afterwards? So many questions.....

I still question how he got to the airport? Does anybody know? Did I miss the discussion?

We don't know how he got to the airport, but it was a night flight. If he took the Metro to Terminus Angrignon and walked into the park, he may have simply walked right back to the station and hailed a cab to the airport. Cabbie wouldn't think anything of someone grabbing a cab from the Metro to airport. Might also explain his dishevelled, unkempt appearance while going through airport security.

~n/t~
07-02-2012, 08:10 PM
May 24th is when Jun Lin was last seen.

May 29th. is when the suitcase was found at his apartment.


Didn't a neighbour see him that same day? So when did he dispose of the remains? The body parts sent to the politicians was received on May 29th, correct? The same day the suitcase was found?

Did the video have a time stamp?


PS There are surveillance cameras at the metro stations.

~n/t~
07-02-2012, 08:12 PM
We don't know how he got to the airport, but it was a night flight. If he took the Metro to Terminus Angrignon and walked into the park, he may have simply walked right back to the station and hailed a cab to the airport. Cabbie wouldn't think anything of someone grabbing a cab from the Metro to airport. Might also explain his dishevelled, unkempt appearance while going through airport security.

Right. I'm just trying to get a timeline. Did he go to the Park on the 29th or did he go on the same days he went to the post office to mail the packages which, IIRC, were received on the 29th so it would've had to have been a few days before.

~n/t~
07-02-2012, 08:16 PM
I personally do not think it is a casual person that saw the head and then decided to come forward later for fear of being outed. There are umpteen reasons one could give for being in the park. This tip is big news.

This may be the first real clue that someone other than LRM knows something and has tipped police. The police may be tight lipped about the discovery because they may also be floored by this and are still trying to figure out where the tip came from.


Another thought is perhaps someone did find the remains but police won't reveal that information to the public for two reasons.

1) Safety reasons for the person.

2) The person will be a witness at trial.


Just speculation on my part as to other possibilities.

Baudi Moovan
07-02-2012, 08:20 PM
I have no reason to doubt you- you've been consistently spot-on with almost everything you've shared.

In your opinion, would these two individuals be considered to be his: Friends? Acquaintances? Enablers? Something else?


1 Friend and 1 Lover.