View Full Version : NO BAIL! Australia - Allison Baden-Clay, Brisbane QLD, 19 April 2012 -#28
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SoSueMe
05-18-2012, 11:30 AM
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Currently, we are considering Allison's husband to be a suspected person of interest in this case. There is a possible second party involved per MSM and it is okay to discuss that aspect, but please refrain from accusing anyone of murder at this juncture. Speculating is one thing, accusing is another.
Thread 1
Thread 2 (http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=170913&page=46)
Thread 3 (http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=171159&page=18)
Thread 4
Thread 5
Thread 6
Thread 7
Thread 8
Thread 9
Thread 10
Thread 11
Thread 12
Thread 13
Thread 14 (http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=173624&page=37)
Thread 15
Thread 16
Thread 17
Thread 18
Thread 19
Thread 20
Thread 21 (http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=8045871&posted=1#post8045871)
Thread 22
Thread 23
Thread 24
Thread 25
Thread 26
Thread 27
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Kimster
05-22-2012, 10:05 AM
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05-27-2012, 11:26 AM
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06-17-2012, 10:10 AM
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Please continue here...
imamaze
06-24-2012, 09:24 AM
Please continue here...
Lu-Lu
06-24-2012, 09:28 AM
Numero Uno :)
willough
06-24-2012, 09:34 AM
Numero Uno :)
Tis like winning BINGO!!!!! giggles
bellgirl
06-24-2012, 09:46 AM
..... ok 5 mins of silence - no one saying anything - we need to get to bed! Goodnight, sleep tight great posters. :offtobed:
http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/city-rallies-for-allisons-children/story-e6freon6-1226407075884
New article.
Humdinger
06-24-2012, 09:52 AM
I've been wondering about GBC.... Who is he, what is he like, how does he put himself across to people?
I know that a lot of us have our opinions - I sure as heck do, but I'm wondering if those that did meet him or know him could give us some insight.
I guess I'm interested in the basics, is his voice soft like in the interview or is he normally jovial and confident? Does he have a decent handshake? Does he like to plan things or is he a spur of the moment kind of guy?
If anyone could enlighten me /us I'd sure appreciate it! I guess in my head I have this image, I'm just trying to work out how accurate I am.
TIA
Wonder Woman
06-24-2012, 09:53 AM
This could be it! Would anyone in Oz think that the fifth amendment was part of their own constitution in the express of rights?????????? I think so. More than half of our citizens don't know the name of our Vice President, so "they" say.
(I'm still not sure who "they" are, but "they" do throw out a lot of statistics).
I wonder if there is a type of fifth amendment in the express of rights. I took a brief look and didn't see it.
Constitution of Australia - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constitution_of_Australia)
Kimster, in Australia, IMO, the right against self incrimination is not specified in the Australian Constitution. Australia has a common law (judge made law) right against self incrimination. IMO, this right against self-incrimination provides an immunity from an individual's obligation to provide information that goes to prove their own guilt. Refer to the Australian High Court case of Sorby and Another v The Commonwealth of Australia and Others (1983) 152 CLR 281. As the law currently stands, the right against self incrimination may be overturned by federal, state or territory legislation.
IMO, the right against self incrimination does not mean that a person has the right to not answer any questions whatsoever. Under the right against self incrimination, a person is not required to provide information that may expose that person to conviction for a crime. A person may still be compelled by legislation to provide information, for example, a person’s full name, address and produce proof of identification eg. Drivers Licence. Also, a law enforcement agency may have the power under legislation to take a person's finger print, blood and hair samples in certain circumstances eg. by either consent or Court Order.
As CaseClosed said in Post 802 of Thread 27, Australia also has a right to silence. IMO, the right to silence is broader than the right against self incrimination. A person's right to remain silent applies, for instance, when being questioned by the Police in a criminal matter. That is, the Police cannot force a person to speak to them about anything except matters required by legislation to be responded to, such as the person’s name and address.
IMO, the right to silence also extends to criminal trials in which the defendant does not have to give evidence. If, however, a defendant chooses to give evidence in Court and thereby foregoes their right to silence, the Prosecution may cross examine the defendant. MOO :moo:
Kimster,
We don't have a Bill of Rights in our Constitution, so I can't imagine why he was looking up the fifth amendment.
What it says to me, is that he doesn't have a good grasp of the law and he was naive in thinking he could talk his way out of this mess IMO.
Who won the cricket at Brookfield today, sorry yesterday now? Great effort with the fundraiser in excess of $20,000. Great community, great spirit.
Don't they still have to say you have the right to remain silent when they are arresting people on Australian police shows? I thought they did, but with slightly different wording from the US.
Kimster,
We don't have a Bill of Rights in our Constitution, so I can't imagine why he was looking up the fifth amendment.
What it says to me, is that he doesn't have a good grasp of the law and he was naive in thinking he could talk his way out of this mess IMO.
Hello all, I am unsure if this will be of any interest to you, I found it very interesting.
http://expertrealestate.blogspot.com.au/2008/02/making-history.html
http://www.didp.com.au/index.cfm?action=home:page.adam-bayden-clay
http://www.scoutscan.com/issues/2007annualreport.pdf:what::waitasec:
Hello all, I am unsure if this will be of any interest to you, I found it very interesting.
http://expertrealestate.blogspot.com.au/2008/02/making-history.html
http://www.didp.com.au/index.cfm?action=home:page.adam-bayden-clay
http://www.scoutscan.com/issues/2007annualreport.pdf:what::waitasec:
Sorry, the third link didn't work for me.
Don't they still have to say you have the right to remain silent when they are arresting people on Australian police shows? I thought they did, but with slightly different wording from the US.
You are not obliged to say or do anything unless you wish to do so, but whatever you say or do may be used in evidence. Do you understand?
Miranda warning - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Trooper
06-24-2012, 10:13 AM
• the police officer states ‘you are under arrest’ (or similar words);
• the police officer states the reason for the arrest; and
• you either voluntarily give in to the offi cer’s control, or are
physically subdued by the police offi cer.
Sometimes, the police will only tell you that you are under arrest
after they physically take charge of you.
You may be arrested by the police if they have a warrant (that is,
written authorisation from the court signed by a judge, magistrate
or justice) for your arrest.
Trooper
06-24-2012, 10:14 AM
Despite a widely-held belief that police must ‘read you your
rights’ before arresting you, in fact, the Queensland police are not
required to give you a warning prior to arresting you. Sometimes
police offi cers will advise you about certain rights you have before
arrest; however, police are not required to caution you about your
right to silence unless they want to question you as a suspect
about your involvement in an indictable offence.19
Queensland’s criminal law system should not be confused with the
American legal system that is so often presented on television, with
it’s ‘Miranda warning’ requirement, which is quite different to the
legal processes here.
The police in Queensland normally must tell you (a) that you are
under arrest and (b) the basis of your arrest. You should always
ask the police offi cer if you are under arrest and why if it is not
clear. Remember what they say and when they say it, and write the
details down as soon as possible.
Trooper
06-24-2012, 10:15 AM
what the police usually say to one of my brothers friends, is, ...
'you know the routine, Brett.'
and thats all they say, actually. And they are right. he knows it.
Sorry, the third link didn't work for me.
sorry Nads, Ill have to check it out tomorrow as Im half a sleep trying to type in the dark as hubby is trying to sleep.
My thoughts are that I have read so much about OW, what about Adam the brother cant find the darn question mark, Im trying to type quietly.
itsthevibe
06-24-2012, 10:17 AM
Who won the cricket at Brookfield today, sorry yesterday now? Great effort with the fundraiser in excess of $20,000. Great community, great spirit.
The SES & Firies beat the Brookfield team. They raised a lot of the money from the Auction, they had so many items donated, including some framed, autographed memorabilia, some of which went for over $1000, expensive corporate box sporting tickets, a resort getaway, and heaps more. Plus proceeds from food sales went towards the total as well, and there was also a huge raffle at $5 a ticket.
The SES & Firies beat the Brookfield team. They raised a lot of the money from the Auction, they had so many items donated, including some framed, autographed memorabilia, some of which went for over $1000, expensive corporate box sporting tickets, a resort getaway, and heaps more. Plus proceeds from food sales went towards the total as well, and there was also a huge raffle at $5 a ticket.
I wanted to win the sunflowers painting. It was beautiful.
Brissie
06-24-2012, 10:26 AM
Hi there, I thought I you may like to view these links :
Sky News
http://www.skynews.com.au/topstories/article.aspx?id=764468&vId=3342906&cId=Top%20Stories
Brisbane News: "Community Spirit" video
http://ten.com.au/ten-news-brisbane.htm
bearbear
06-24-2012, 10:36 AM
Hi there, I thought I you may like to view these links :
Sky News
http://www.skynews.com.au/topstories/article.aspx?id=764468&vId=3342906&cId=Top%20Stories
Brisbane News: "Community Spirit" video
http://ten.com.au/ten-news-brisbane.htm
love your avatar, sooo cute!!!
appleblossom
06-24-2012, 03:30 PM
On the 'Gerard Bayden-Clay' video on the following link:
http://ten.com.au/ten-news-brisbane.htm
Did anyone notice when they showed GBC's google searches, that as well as searching 'taking the fifth' and 'self-incrimination', he also searched 'PSYCHIATRISTS IN THE BRISBANE WEST AREA' ??? any ideas why??
I haven't been able to sleep thinking about ABC. How painful it must have been to realise her husband was a cheater, and a liar and that their marriage was doomed with women like TM still hanging around (offering sly dirty sex and demanding a future with no care for Allison and the girls). And to also discover her husband had financially ruined the future for the girls, and then, finally, to be hunted down and killed like an animal on an african safari hunt.
And i'm still wondering about that caterpillar... don't boy scouts and descendants of great hunters learn how to deal with vicious creatures? Who is the person that is the caterpillar incident witness?
I hope he thinks every day about Allison taking her last breath and the sobs of his poor daughters.
BJsleuth
06-24-2012, 04:06 PM
<snipped>
Did anyone notice when they showed GBC's google searches, that as well as searching 'taking the fifth' and 'self-incrimination', he also searched 'PSYCHIATRISTS IN THE BRISBANE WEST AREA' ??? any ideas why??
I did! It could go to Psychiatric defense or alternatively perhaps it was in an attempt to source restricted medication? Purely speculation of course.
I have lots more half-baked theories which I'll put out there later! Some have probably already been covered.
Dlady
06-24-2012, 04:07 PM
Thank you for the warm welcomes and also for the answers to my Facebook-guestion. I didn't know about the glitch, we didn't have that on this side of the world. That would clarify things.
In the previous thread there was some discussion about the children being at home the night of the murder and about how much they know. It's so sad, but I think that they might know a lot. If the situation between the parents is very difficult (loud arguments, maybe domestic violence, a very unhappy parent), a child (usually the oldest one) can take the habit of monitoring things and trying to protect the weaker parent. Stay awake and listen to the arguments, ready to interrupt the situation if it gets too bad, or to comfort the younger siblings, if they wake up. I hope this is not the case here, but i think that there deffinately is a change for that. It breaks my heart to think that the children might have heard exactly what happened. I just hope that they were all so exhausted that they slept through the night.
Woombite
06-24-2012, 05:39 PM
Wonderful to see the Brissie/Brookie community pull together to show solidarity in support of Allison, her girls and the Dickie family.
No wonder GBC had to have his own business - had to have his own 'empire' so his minions could do the hard yacca to cover his now very glaring deficits. Little wonder his employment history was so chequered. C'mon, an IT manager who appears to know less than two-fifths of bugger all in basic computer/internet tech?
Though I give it to him for the ability to sucker people in. 'Gentleman agreements' with no paperwork? How dopey are the lenders not ensuring there was anything to secure their interest?
As for his lady paramour, she would look ok to him as she would at least have some equity in her ppty that he could tap into down the track if he hasn't already. I have had to deal with a character similar to this during my previous career, though he did not take a life. I was able to negotiate return of realty, antiques, artwork and jewellery by establishing rapport (it was icky) and listening to him proudly telling me stories of his conquests. Easier and less costly than further legal action.
I nicknamed him Bluebeard and there appears to be strong similarities except for the terrible loss of Allison's life.
Anyway just some random thoughts.
OakingtonAve
06-24-2012, 05:49 PM
Firstly, I must apologise for my last, and up until now, only post. Yes I am a relative local, but the rumours we have heard circulating were rumours only and I did not realise it contravened the rules to post gossip, however well intentioned....
Anyway, as I lay in bed last night, my thoughts again turned to the whole ABC case.
I started to wonder why I, and so many other people have been so fascinated by this case.
I am consumed by feelings of intense pity and love for those poor little girls - I am sure that many of you reading this will agree - I would dearly love to scoop them up and try to help somehow - however pathetic that sounds, I think the mother in all of us wants to help, to protect, and to reach out - and it's because Allison could have been ANY of us - the facade outwardly of a perfectly normal, and functioning family unit was that only - a facade - and the realisation that there were deep, deep cracks throughout the entire relationship is so confronting...
It is because of this - because of the intense feelings of anger, of indignation - WHY did it have to come to this - why chose a path that would have so many far reaching repercussions and involve so much pain on so many levels - that I, for one, am still trying to get my head around it all.
I hope and pray that justice is served and that the children are given the tools to find their way through it all...
YoureNicked
06-24-2012, 05:53 PM
Wonderful to see the Brissie/Brookie community pull together to show solidarity in support of Allison, her girls and the Dickie family.
No wonder GBC had to have his own business - had to have his own 'empire' so his minions could do the hard yacca to cover his now very glaring deficits. Little wonder his employment history was so chequered. C'mon, an IT manager who appears to know less than two-fifths of bugger all in basic computer/internet tech?
Though I give it to him for the ability to sucker people in. 'Gentleman agreements' with no paperwork? How dopey are the lenders not ensuring there was anything to secure their interest?
As for his lady paramour, she would look ok to him as she would at least have some equity in her ppty that he could tap into down the track if he hasn't already. I have had to deal with a character similar to this during my previous career, though he did not take a life. I was able to negotiate return of realty, antiques, artwork and jewellery by establishing rapport (it was icky) and listening to him proudly telling me stories of his conquests. Easier and less costly than further legal action.
I nicknamed him Bluebeard and there appears to be strong similarities except for the terrible loss of Allison's life.
Anyway just some random thoughts.
I think you've nailed this character's character (or lack of character) completely, woombite. Good post. I like it when I come across astute people on here. Means less of us will get sucked in by the parasites in future!
Woombite
06-24-2012, 05:56 PM
I did! It could go to Psychiatric defense or alternatively perhaps it was in an attempt to source restricted medication? Purely speculation of course.
I have lots more half-baked theories which I'll put out there later! Some have probably already been covered.
Very early at the time of the car crash, he was in hospital for two days - and I understood it was an eeo (emergency examination order) by police or QAS attending who may have formed the view that he was a risk to himself and/or others and required an assessment inder the Mental Health Act 2000.
I thought it interesting at the time but understandable given Allison had just gone missing, the intense media speculation and his ongoing care of their children. I also considered it a good move also to establish his state of mind close to the point of time that Allison had gone missing with a view to obtaining a formal assessment that could strike in or out a psych defence. The fact he was released and able to continue the care of the children indicated to me there was an absence of an organic mh condition that meant he was a risk to himself or others.
I for one are guessing he would have very little chance of using the mh defence.
I commented on an earlier thread that the forensic mh system is no soft option as persons have no definate 'head sentence' and are subject to intensive followup in hosp and if released to community for often a longer period of time than their jail sentence/parole period.
Elspeth
06-24-2012, 06:10 PM
Way back there was a post by a local? saying they were driving home late at night past the BC's house and happened to look up their driveway and saw 2 people putting something into the back of a car...Did this turn out to be completely a rumour/gossip ?...
Way back there was a post by a local? saying they were driving home late at night past the BC's house and happened to look up their driveway and saw 2 people putting something into the back of a car...Did this turn out to be completely a rumour/gossip ?...
I don't remember that one Elspeth, I remember a local saying all 4 doors of the Prado were open though and I am not sure a time was given.
JK673
06-24-2012, 06:36 PM
Very early at the time of the car crash, he was in hospital for two days - and I understood it was an eeo (emergency examination order) by police or QAS attending who may have formed the view that he was a risk to himself and/or others and required an assessment inder the Mental Health Act 2000.
I thought it interesting at the time but understandable given Allison had just gone missing, the intense media speculation and his ongoing care of their children. I also considered it a good move also to establish his state of mind close to the point of time that Allison had gone missing with a view to obtaining a formal assessment that could strike in or out a psych defence. The fact he was released and able to continue the care of the children indicated to me there was an absence of an organic mh condition that meant he was a risk to himself or others.
I for one are guessing he would have very little chance of using the mh defence.
I commented on an earlier thread that the forensic mh system is no soft option as persons have no definate 'head sentence' and are subject to intensive followup in hosp and if released to community for often a longer period of time than their jail sentence/parole period.
Apparently, when he crashed that car all he kept saying was 'I'm sorry' just something i heard about
Elspeth
06-24-2012, 06:40 PM
I don't remember that one Elspeth, I remember a local saying all 4 doors of the Prado were open though and I am not sure a time was given.
Mani I cannot completely recall the post but all 4 doors open seems to ring a bell as well, but did think it was very late when they supposedly drove past and looked up BC's driveway in passing as they were well known to them...
Firstly, I must apologise for my last, and up until now, only post. Yes I am a relative local, but the rumours we have heard circulating were rumours only and I did not realise it contravened the rules to post gossip, however well intentioned....
Anyway, as I lay in bed last night, my thoughts again turned to the whole ABC case.
I started to wonder why I, and so many other people have been so fascinated by this case.
I am consumed by feelings of intense pity and love for those poor little girls - I am sure that many of you reading this will agree - I would dearly love to scoop them up and try to help somehow - however pathetic that sounds, I think the mother in all of us wants to help, to protect, and to reach out - and it's because Allison could have been ANY of us - the facade outwardly of a perfectly normal, and functioning family unit was that only - a facade - and the realisation that there were deep, deep cracks throughout the entire relationship is so confronting...
It is because of this - because of the intense feelings of anger, of indignation - WHY did it have to come to this - why chose a path that would have so many far reaching repercussions and involve so much pain on so many levels - that I, for one, am still trying to get my head around it all.
I hope and pray that justice is served and that the children are given the tools to find their way through it all...
Hi Oakington - I would have liked to parle with you after your first post as you could have shed some light on what you posted. It would appear you are a local and what you wrote was fairly 'out there'. We have had a lot of posts here from locals that got us all thinking and analysing and we have spent a lot of time doing this. So it would have been great to ask you some questions about that original post.
Are you now saying that it was just local rumour/gossip with no bearing in fact? :)
Cheers
YoureNicked
06-24-2012, 06:47 PM
Apparently, when he crashed that car all he kept saying was 'I'm sorry' just something i heard about
Reminds me of his only media interview where he repeats 'I'm sorry,' a couple of times.
Almost as if, in saying it, the person he's talking to will let him go, unchallenged. Wouldn't surprise me if it was a tactic he'd learnt through life in order to avoid confrontation or being challenged.
So, he automatically resorts to the 'I'm sorry' in this more dire situation.
Only thing is, it hasn't worked for him this time.
MOO
Mani I cannot completely recall the post but all 4 doors open seems to ring a bell as well, but did think it was very late when they supposedly drove past and looked up BC's driveway in passing as they were well known to them...
Right, well if that's your memory, someone here should remember that one - possibly Marly or Caseclosed (who have remarkable memories)! :)
DunnoZo
06-24-2012, 07:06 PM
Right, well if that's your memory, someone here should remember that one - possibly Marly or Caseclosed (who have remarkable memories)! :)
I remember it too, but it was never verified.. what about it?
Way back there was a post by a local? saying they were driving home late at night past the BC's house and happened to look up their driveway and saw 2 people putting something into the back of a car...Did this turn out to be completely a rumour/gossip ?...
Yes I remember reading that rumour. Havent heard or read anymore about it.
whitechapel
06-24-2012, 07:13 PM
Way back there was a post by a local? saying they were driving home late at night past the BC's house and happened to look up their driveway and saw 2 people putting something into the back of a car...Did this turn out to be completely a rumour/gossip ?...
Hi Elspeth. I think you are refering to a post from Isadore on 5th May.
She wrote...
I was told that a neighbor of ABC has reported to police that on the night in question ,the white car belonging to GBC was parked in the driveway at 10pm with all 4 doors wide open.
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=7873452&highlight=%2BGBC+%2Bdriveway+%2Bdoors+%2Bcar+%2Bop en#post7873452
YoureNicked
06-24-2012, 07:13 PM
Way back there was a post by a local? saying they were driving home late at night past the BC's house and happened to look up their driveway and saw 2 people putting something into the back of a car...Did this turn out to be completely a rumour/gossip ?...
Hi Elspeth, I remember that post.
As I recall though, the person posting said someone they knew had driven by the GBC house late at night and seen two people putting something into one of the cars.
As I recall it was a second-hand account. 'Someone told me...'
Casper1
06-24-2012, 07:15 PM
what the police usually say to one of my brothers friends, is, ...
'you know the routine, Brett.'
and thats all they say, actually. And they are right. he knows it.
Ohhh this is great, lol
I don't remember that one Elspeth, I remember a local saying all 4 doors of the Prado were open though and I am not sure a time was given.
Mani I cannot completely recall the post but all 4 doors open seems to ring a bell as well, but did think it was very late when they supposedly drove past and looked up BC's driveway in passing as they were well known to them...
post 17, thread 3, so maybe the original is on thread 2.
Hi
I'm sorry I haven't worked out to quote but someone asked me if I knew whether 77 was empty - I really don't know. As to the white car having all 4 doors open at 10, the neighbor stating this has been interviewed several times by the police re this info and more. The theory re house is just speculation on part, just my opinion.
kalamityk
06-24-2012, 07:17 PM
I found this on thread 1- posted by Alicat
Quote:
Originally Posted by kiwijayne
Also further along there is Mt Crosby, a State Forest and even a Lake. The thing in this area there is plenty of places to hide something or someone.
I'm out this way and I kept getting eerie feelings around Kholo Creek overpass. I know it probably sounds silly, but its the 'what if.'
Sleuthilicious
06-24-2012, 07:33 PM
I found this on thread 1- posted by Alicat
Quote:
Originally Posted by kiwijayne
Also further along there is Mt Crosby, a State Forest and even a Lake. The thing in this area there is plenty of places to hide something or someone.
I'm out this way and I kept getting eerie feelings around Kholo Creek overpass. I know it probably sounds silly, but its the 'what if.'
That gives me the shivers. Yikes!
marlywings
06-24-2012, 07:37 PM
Apparently, when he crashed that car all he kept saying was 'I'm sorry' just something i heard about
That came from the member Radster...
#544 05-28-2012, 01:20 PM
Radster
Registered User Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 76
I'm new so this may have already been covered. I've been told GBC walked in to Indrops police station on the same day as his car accident and said "I'm sorry". The officers there were like, "For what exactly". He then left. Now he was obviously pretty shaken at the time so he could have meant "I'm sorry I've pranged my car up the road, now you'll have to do some paperwork", or "I'm sorry this search is taking up so much of your time and resources" (remembering that GBC was always extremely outwardly "polite") or "I'm sorry I killed my wife". I realise this event seems to make little sense (if he confessed, then what are we all still doing here?) but I have been told the EXACT same story now by three people close to events and so now I'm thinking there may be some substance to it. Any thoughts? Sorry if this has been discussed before.
Australia - Allison Baden-Clay, 43, Brisbane QLD, 19 April 2012 - #14 - Page 22 - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community
I don't think he "walked into Indrops police station" as he was taken to hospital where he spent a couple of days.
Elspeth
06-24-2012, 07:50 PM
Hi Elspeth, I remember that post.
As I recall though, the person posting said someone they knew had driven by the GBC house late at night and seen two people putting something into one of the cars.
As I recall it was a second-hand account. 'Someone told me...'
I recall it as definitely someone driving past late at night as I wondered why would you bother to look up a driveway...recall other posters saying they often look up driveways of people they know if driving past...
Just curious about it as I wondered if the time frame was similar to the phone call GBC made to his father ?... realize though it was possibly only a rumour anyway...
LauraMars
06-24-2012, 07:56 PM
Marlywings, you are so awesome at finding old posts! Thank you :)
I was recently talking to a friend I hadn't seen for ages. He works at the hospital GBC was taken to after 'that prang'. He said there was a lot of talk flying around the hospital about OW turning up soon afterwards, causing a bit of a scene/being demanding etc, and telling GBC not to say anything.
He said he was told GBC discharged himself (which wouldn't be that strange considering he was only a little bit hurt) but I am unsure whether he was actually in there 2 days, or whether it was just a matter of hours. I think I've seen reports of the 2 day stay, but unsure where, or if they are true.
Of course this could all be a load of it, who knows...some of the rumours that have flown around
Mind you, quite a few of the rumours have turned out to be pretty accurate
Hi Oakington - I would have liked to parle with you after your first post as you could have shed some light on what you posted. It would appear you are a local and what you wrote was fairly 'out there'. We have had a lot of posts here from locals that got us all thinking and analysing and we have spent a lot of time doing this. So it would have been great to ask you some questions about that original post.
Are you now saying that it was just local rumour/gossip with no bearing in fact? :)
Cheers
Are you perhaps allowed to say it's just a rumour ie don't present it as fact, and then we can decide for ourselves? Does anyone know?
marlywings
06-24-2012, 08:27 PM
Marlywings, you are so awesome at finding old posts! Thank you :)
I was recently talking to a friend I hadn't seen for ages. He works at the hospital GBC was taken to after 'that prang'. He said there was a lot of talk flying around the hospital about OW turning up soon afterwards, causing a bit of a scene/being demanding etc, and telling GBC not to say anything.
He said he was told GBC discharged himself (which wouldn't be that strange considering he was only a little bit hurt) but I am unsure whether he was actually in there 2 days, or whether it was just a matter of hours. I think I've seen reports of the 2 day stay, but unsure where, or if they are true.
Of course this could all be a load of it, who knows...some of the rumours that have flown around
Mind you, quite a few of the rumours have turned out to be pretty accurate
Re the two day hospital stay...
June 14, 2012 6:30AM
His injuries were minor but he was taken by ambulance to hospital where he remained for a couple of days - his talk with investigating officers delayed until he was adequately recovered
http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/not-one-single-word-said-about-allison-baden-clay-left-talking-to-others/story-e6freon6-1226395031444
LauraMars
06-24-2012, 08:41 PM
Re the two day hospital stay...
June 14, 2012 6:30AM
His injuries were minor but he was taken by ambulance to hospital where he remained for a couple of days - his talk with investigating officers delayed until he was adequately recovered
http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/not-one-single-word-said-about-allison-baden-clay-left-talking-to-others/story-e6freon6-1226395031444
Thanks for that marlywings, I thought I had read reports that it was a 2 day stay. My friend didn't actually mention the time of stay, just that he had discharged himself apparently (this was all second hand to him even), but he did say he was in the psych unit while there.
All heresay/third hand of course
CaseClosed
06-24-2012, 08:45 PM
Right, well if that's your memory, someone here should remember that one - possibly Marly or Caseclosed (who have remarkable memories)! :)
Yes, I do remember someone saying they saw 2 people putting something in the back of one of the cars. Someone else said something about all car doors open. And another person said something about police presence at the house the night before she was reported missing.
marlywings
06-24-2012, 08:46 PM
Are you perhaps allowed to say it's just a rumour ie don't present it as fact, and then we can decide for ourselves? Does anyone know?
Nads I deleted my post in which I included Kimster's front page post...that was about "verified professionals"....there was info from mods at one time mentioning rumours/facts along with becoming a verified local.
I'll have a look for that.
Aussie_expat.sg
06-24-2012, 08:47 PM
Hello all, I am unsure if this will be of any interest to you, I found it very interesting.
http://expertrealestate.blogspot.com.au/2008/02/making-history.html
http://www.didp.com.au/index.cfm?action=home:page.adam-bayden-clay
http://www.scoutscan.com/issues/2007annualreport.pdf:what::waitasec:
IMO GBC would be doing himself in if he tried to plead insanity. Look at ALL HIS BLOGS! They actually sound like a reasonable, likeable man who has a good handle on what is RIGHT and WRONG. Too bad that the rhetoric doesn't match the reality. His own writings could be presented by the Crown as proof of his "sanity". Surely narcissism is not equal to insanity.
LauraMars
06-24-2012, 08:51 PM
I must admit, I do get a bit confused as to what we are 'allowed' to post, even if we make it clear it's just heresay or overheard etc. Hope I haven't stepped over the line.
Apologies to mods, and other posters, if I have done.
CaseClosed
06-24-2012, 08:57 PM
I must admit, I do get a bit confused as to what we are 'allowed' to post, even if we make it clear it's just heresay or overheard etc. Hope I haven't stepped over the line.
Apologies to mods, and other posters, if I have done.
Many rumours are posted by many people ... we just have to take them for what they are. The problem is that if someone only reads the thread occasionally, then the rumour may become fact in the mind of many. IMO.
DunnoZo
06-24-2012, 08:57 PM
Someone else mentioned allison's car being @ the showground? which IMO was prob. not so..
Not many of us left from Day 1.. feel like we're going in circles. I tried to locate Maverick.au's theory posts, but so many , can't?
LOL. looking for a running in circles smile, but found this one instead.. :liar: Is that a scratch I see?
CaseClosed
06-24-2012, 09:00 PM
Someone else mentioned allison's car being @ the showground? which IMO was prob. not so..
Not many of us left from Day 1.. feel like we're going in circles. I tried to locate Maverick.au's theory posts, but so many , can't?
LOL. looking for a running in circles smile, but found this one instead.. :liar: Is that a scratch I see?
We are going in circles at the moment, but once the Committal Hearing starts on apparently July 9, and unless there is a suppression order, am sure there will be a lot more to discuss.
louisepiglet
06-24-2012, 09:04 PM
Yes, I do remember someone saying they saw 2 people putting something in the back of one of the cars. Someone else said something about all car doors open. And another person said something about police presence at the house the night before she was reported missing.
I remember reading that.
possumheart
06-24-2012, 09:08 PM
On the missing persons website for ABC, which I can't find ATM, there were varius pertinent news articles. One said GBC has suffered a breakdown after the car crash and was hospitalized for 2 days. Another said ABC's car was at home (it wasn't at the showgrounds). Sorry for not providing the link again this time.
marlywings
06-24-2012, 09:09 PM
Someone else mentioned allison's car being @ the showground? which IMO was prob. not so..
Not many of us left from Day 1.. feel like we're going in circles. I tried to locate Maverick.au's theory posts, but so many , can't?
LOL. looking for a running in circles smile, but found this one instead.. :liar: Is that a scratch I see?
DunnoZo...most of Maverick.au's posts were in first & second threads...anyway, here's all of his posts...
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/search.php?searchid=5703050
Cccclllaareb
06-24-2012, 09:11 PM
That came from the member Radster...
#544 05-28-2012, 01:20 PM
Radster
Registered User Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 76
I'm new so this may have already been covered. I've been told GBC walked in to Indrops police station on the same day as his car accident and said "I'm sorry". The officers there were like, "For what exactly". He then left. Now he was obviously pretty shaken at the time so he could have meant "I'm sorry I've pranged my car up the road, now you'll have to do some paperwork", or "I'm sorry this search is taking up so much of your time and resources" (remembering that GBC was always extremely outwardly "polite") or "I'm sorry I killed my wife". I realise this event seems to make little sense (if he confessed, then what are we all still doing here?) but I have been told the EXACT same story now by three people close to events and so now I'm thinking there may be some substance to it. Any thoughts? Sorry if this has been discussed before.
Australia - Allison Baden-Clay, 43, Brisbane QLD, 19 April 2012 - #14 - Page 22 - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community (http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=7974592#post7974592)
I don't think he "walked into Indrops police station" as he was taken to hospital where he spent a couple of days.
Well it's possible he did actually, there's a little police beat station RIGHT where he crashed the car. Only a matter of steps away
marlywings
06-24-2012, 09:16 PM
On the missing persons website for ABC, which I can't find ATM, there were varius pertinent news articles. One said GBC has suffered a breakdown after the car crash and was hospitalized for 2 days. Another said ABC's car was at home (it wasn't at the showgrounds). Sorry for not providing the link again this time.
Link for Australian Missing Person's register...
http://www.australianmissingpersonsregister.com/Baden-Clay.htm
marlywings
06-24-2012, 09:18 PM
Well it's possible he did actually, there's a little police beat station RIGHT where he crashed the car. Only a matter of steps away
Somehow I just can't see the "little bit hurt" GBC toddling over the road to police station...lol...
Meanwhile, a Department of Community Safety spokesman confirmed paramedics treated a man (Mr Baden-Clay) on Sunday afternoon after he crashed his car into a bus station outside Indooroopilly Shopping Centre on Musgrave Rd.
He said the man suffered "very minor injuries".
"He was treated with very minor injuries and initially had sore ribs," the DCS spokesman said.
"He was taken to the Royal Brisbane and Women's Hospital.
http://www.australianmissingpersonsregister.com/Baden-Clay.htm
Limaes
06-24-2012, 09:29 PM
RE: witness about the caterpillar. I wonder if this is why he went to see a Doctor the day after reporting her missing and a day before his accident at Indoorapilly? To have a medical practioner as his witness?
CaseClosed
06-24-2012, 09:33 PM
RE: witness about the caterpillar. I wonder if this is why he went to see a Doctor the day after reporting her missing and a day before his accident at Indoorapilly? To have a medical practioner as his witness?
Someone (apparently local) said that they knew GBC had gone to the doctors because of an infected wound .... I have had a seriously infected spider bite, which had to be treated medically, therefore it is possible that any sort of insect/kreepy krauly bite could have been infected and needed antibiotics. IMO.
Opinionsgalore
06-24-2012, 09:39 PM
I've tried to keep up with all the threads since GBC's arrest, so if anything below has already been brought up, my apologies.
The committal hearing is 2 weeks from today. I've had a quick look at the site, and if I'm reading it right, it's all about the prosecution presenting a case for the Magistrate to decide IF there is sufficient evidence for a trial. The defence cross examines but (if I've read it right) doesn't present a case. The accused is then asked by the magistrate whether they are pleaing guilty or not guilty- which would means that GBC will be there. My question is: will information about the prosecutions evidence be released ?
Cccclllaareb
06-24-2012, 09:41 PM
Somehow I just can't see the "little bit hurt" GBC toddling over the road to police station...lol...
Meanwhile, a Department of Community Safety spokesman confirmed paramedics treated a man (Mr Baden-Clay) on Sunday afternoon after he crashed his car into a bus station outside Indooroopilly Shopping Centre on Musgrave Rd.
He said the man suffered "very minor injuries".
"He was treated with very minor injuries and initially had sore ribs," the DCS spokesman said.
"He was taken to the Royal Brisbane and Women's Hospital.
http://www.australianmissingpersonsregister.com/Baden-Clay.htm
Hahaha. If he did in fact toddle in I can imagine him saying sorry, sorry for crashing the car! I probably would
Cccclllaareb
06-24-2012, 09:42 PM
I've tried to keep up with all the threads since GBC's arrest, so if anything below has already been brought up, my apologies.
The committal hearing is 2 weeks from today. I've had a quick look at the site, and if I'm reading it right, it's all about the prosecution presenting a case for the Magistrate to decide IF there is sufficient evidence for a trial. The defence cross examines but (if I've read it right) doesn't present a case. The accused is then asked by the magistrate whether they are pleaing guilty or not guilty- which would means that GBC will be there. My question is: will information about the prosecutions evidence be released ?
Yep it sure will! Will be very interesting indeed
OakingtonAve
06-24-2012, 09:44 PM
Are you perhaps allowed to say it's just a rumour ie don't present it as fact, and then we can decide for ourselves? Does anyone know?
Mine came from a gf who knows a helper at the school where the children are but has no doubt been proven to be heresay, hence the apology. It was not the first time I had heard the hands rumour but this too proved to be false.
Therefore I shall shut up and post no further gossip:what:
WhatTheHey
06-24-2012, 09:44 PM
Apparently longer-term custody decision in Family Court today. Don't know details.
Everything crossed for Dickies all the way
X
Cccclllaareb
06-24-2012, 09:44 PM
Really he wouldn't have needed to walk in, they would have walked out to him! It's right there. The police beat.
Limaes
06-24-2012, 09:45 PM
Can the Defence ask for details to be supressed?
WhatTheHey
06-24-2012, 09:45 PM
Apparently longer-term custody decision in Family Court today. Don't know details.
Everything crossed for Dickies all the way
X
:please:
Limaes
06-24-2012, 09:47 PM
Apparently longer-term custody decision in Family Court today. Don't know details.
Everything crossed for Dickies all the way
X
:please:
Do you know what time?
Opinionsgalore
06-24-2012, 09:47 PM
Yep it sure will! Will be very interesting indeed
Cheers !!
Oh my, I can only wonder at the evidence that hasn't been presented, and they may go more into the second charge of interfering with a corpse.
I was (even more) horrified when I heard that second charge, and I know there's been a lot of talk about what was actually meant by 'interfering'.
Aunty
06-24-2012, 09:49 PM
That gives me the shivers. Yikes!
Do you know who started the thread ? KJ
And when she joined ws and why? A murder occured in NZ ?
I got shivers when I saw this post too ? And other posts? :what:
CaseClosed
06-24-2012, 09:50 PM
I've tried to keep up with all the threads since GBC's arrest, so if anything below has already been brought up, my apologies.
The committal hearing is 2 weeks from today. I've had a quick look at the site, and if I'm reading it right, it's all about the prosecution presenting a case for the Magistrate to decide IF there is sufficient evidence for a trial. The defence cross examines but (if I've read it right) doesn't present a case. The accused is then asked by the magistrate whether they are pleaing guilty or not guilty- which would means that GBC will be there. My question is: will information about the prosecutions evidence be released ?
I think that's the million dollar question. I would think that, unless the Judge orders a suppression of the info, then the media will report from the Court.
WhatTheHey
06-24-2012, 09:50 PM
Do you know what time?
No - maybe on a court list somewhere? Heard from ABC relative
Woombite
06-24-2012, 09:51 PM
Thanks for that marlywings, I thought I had read reports that it was a 2 day stay. My friend didn't actually mention the time of stay, just that he had discharged himself apparently (this was all second hand to him even), but he did say he was in the psych unit while there.
All heresay/third hand of course
If he was assessed and not deemed a risk to himself or others and did not requiure treatment, he would not remain under the eeo or an ito - involuntary treatment order. If he was then a voluntary patient, he would have been free to leave at any time.
Again, this is an indication he was not a risk under the definitions in the MHA 2000.
possumheart
06-24-2012, 09:56 PM
Mine came from a gf who knows a helper at the school where the children are but has no doubt been proven to be heresay, hence the apology. It was not the first time I had heard the hands rumour but this too proved to be false.
Therefore I shall shut up and post no further gossip:what:
I heard the 'hand thing' from a very similar source to you, and from another source and was initially taken in. At the time it was all so strange (the case) that it was easy to be taken in by it. It is a small community after all and we are only human. I mean, Bruce Overland - pffft - if that was a rumor I would find it unbelievable due to its crassness.
CaseClosed
06-24-2012, 09:57 PM
If he was assessed and not deemed a risk to himself or others and did not requiure treatment, he would not remain under the eeo or an ito - involuntary treatment order. If he was then a voluntary patient, he would have been free to leave at any time.
Again, this is an indication he was not a risk under the definitions in the MHA 2000.
What is your opinion regarding him now being held in the medical unit at the remand centre? Do you think it could be because he has had a break-down and is suicidal or could there be other reasons?
WhatTheHey
06-24-2012, 09:57 PM
Apparently longer-term custody decision in Family Court today. Don't know details.
Everything crossed for Dickies all the way
X
:please:
Hang on, it was either today or tomov - sorry! School holidays brain. Anyhow, just sending white light for best outcome!!
Opinionsgalore
06-24-2012, 09:59 PM
I think that's the million dollar question. I would think that, unless the Judge orders a suppression of the info, then the media will report from the Court.
The suppression order didn't hold for any longer than the bail hearing (to the SC's chagrin I would imagine), given that the Committal hearing is about the prosecutions case, I wonder how much 'sway' the defender would have anyway.
Isabellnecessary
06-24-2012, 09:59 PM
I thought he'd crashed the car to give himself time to think away from the police. MOO.
In the last thread, someone mentioned divorce was expensive. Not if you're bankrupt or receiving Centrelink (government assistance in Australia).
My ex husband was a narcissist. I can completely get how BC presents this 'charming' man to people.
When my marriage finally fell apart, my ex had moments of extreme anger where he subjected me to hideous verbal abuse. He would stand on my doorstep, yelling how I had broken his heart, how I was a b**ch, slut, whore... he suggested I had become a prostitute which was how I was 'surviving' without him.... 'I hope you're not doing anything which will embarrass the family...' he said.
He told everyone in our local and small community that i was a pathological liar and that I was mentally unstable - and that he was going to have our children removed from me.
Nearly 5 years down the line, it is me who's active in our community, who has the children living with her other than two weekends a month, who runs a small local business, who has a wide network of friends. He... is not doing so great. I survived his abuse and his lies, rebuilt my life.
Whilst I lost all my friends (his friends actually), I also lost my family support because they could not get their heads around that the person they thought they knew could be as I said he was.
They sided with him because if I reported anything he'd done to me, they'd ring him up and he'd lie through his teeth about how I was ill and unstable. And they fell for it because he was a 'nice man'.
Ironically it was only when he decided he wouldn't pay his child support to me did my family start to believe he wasn't so nice. It all comes down to money.
BC could have declared bankruptcy, could have got some gov assistance and as a result, could have applied for a free divorce or greatly subsidised. Also, his wife who also could have received Centrelink benefits if he'd left her. Single parent income, free divorce. It's what she paid her taxes for.
The nice man I originally thought I married doesn't actually exist. It's just a 'charm offensive'. Therefore it's highly credible for his family to be sticking up for him, his sister etc, because they simply can't believe he can possibly have done it. It's only when the evidence is indisputable will they finally start to doubt the story. They are all going to have a very hard time over the coming months.
CaseClosed
06-24-2012, 10:02 PM
I heard the 'hand thing' from a very similar source to you, and from another source and was initially taken in. At the time it was all so strange (the case) that it was easy to be taken in by it. It is a small community after all and we are only human. I mean, Bruce Overland - pffft - if that was a rumor I would find it unbelievable due to its crassness.
Because the details revealed at the bail hearing were really minimal, the missing hand thing could still be true. Bear in mind the body was exposed to the elements and animals for 11 days. The hand(s) could be missing due to animals in the area. Forensic pathologists can determine if it is due to human intervention or due to animals.
Aunty
06-24-2012, 10:02 PM
I found this on thread 1- posted by Alicat
Quote:
Originally Posted by kiwijayne
Also further along there is Mt Crosby, a State Forest and even a Lake. The thing in this area there is plenty of places to hide something or someone.
I'm out this way and I kept getting eerie feelings around Kholo Creek overpass. I know it probably sounds silly, but its the 'what if.'
This is who I am referring to.
And B chick also named kholo creek .
Amazing coinsidance that these girls predicted where Allison was found.
ESP ? Amazing ?
Isabellnecessary
06-24-2012, 10:04 PM
Because the details revealed at the bail hearing were really minimal, the missing hand thing could still be true. Bear in mind the body was exposed to the elements and animals for 11 days. The hand(s) could be missing due to animals in the area. Forensic pathologists can determine if it is due to human intervention or due to animals.
I read another post where they said the hands were NOT missing and this had come from the bail hearing.
Opinionsgalore
06-24-2012, 10:05 PM
Because the details revealed at the bail hearing were really minimal, the missing hand thing could still be true. Bear in mind the body was exposed to the elements and animals for 11 days. The hand(s) could be missing due to animals in the area. Forensic pathologists can determine if it is due to human intervention or due to animals.
I had wondered more along the lines of: did the culprit try to make it look like hit & run ?
CaseClosed
06-24-2012, 10:06 PM
The suppression order didn't hold for any longer than the bail hearing (to the SC's chagrin I would imagine), given that the Committal hearing is about the prosecutions case, I wonder how much 'sway' the defender would have anyway.
Yes, however I suppose a Judge could order a suppression at any stage, but I'm not a lawyer. I hope it's not the case and the media can reveal all that is alleged.
marlywings
06-24-2012, 10:07 PM
RE: witness about the caterpillar. I wonder if this is why he went to see a Doctor the day after reporting her missing and a day before his accident at Indoorapilly? To have a medical practioner as his witness?
I was thinking about the caterpillar thing earlier....most of the hairy caterpillar's I've seen are in a web type nest at the base of trees although of course single ones can be found on a branch or leaf. I know GBC's house was on a rural type property with trees around it but I'm wondering if he was stung by them out at Kholo Creek??....maybe the hairs of caterpillars were found on his clothes & they were sent to that Forensic's doctor in Perth??...just a thought anyway.
Some info about caterpillar stings...
These hairs are fragile and easily dislodged from the caterpillar, they adhere to the surface of skin when the caterpiller is contacted, or they become airborne and on settling the barbed or dart hairs easily fragment and penetrate clothing or skin.
Clinical Presentation
The intensity of the irritation, whether it be caused by "venomous" or "irritating" hairs, will be dependent on the species of caterpillar and the sensitivity of the patient. Patients that come in contact with urticating hairs usually develop wheals and widespread rashes which can be accompanied by a burning sensation. Other symptoms include dermatitis, papules, pain, itching and swelling of the infected area. This inflammation can persist for days, although in most cases the symptoms are transitory. If mucous membranes have been affected there may be some swelling and irritation. Detached hairs can also be inhaled and the upper respiratory tract can be affected producing dyspnoea or laboured breathing. Injuries to the eye have been recorded, resulting in conditions such as nodular conjunctivitis and, less commonly, permanent damage to the cornea. In the case of a mistletoe browntail caterpillar infestation, large numbers of school age children have been known to become affected after sitting under infested Eucalyptus trees, or as a result of disturbing leaf litter and bark at the base of the trees where the caterpillars have rested or pupated
http://medent.usyd.edu.au/fact/caterpillars.htm
possumheart
06-24-2012, 10:07 PM
Because the details revealed at the bail hearing were really minimal, the missing hand thing could still be true. Bear in mind the body was exposed to the elements and animals for 11 days. The hand(s) could be missing due to animals in the area. Forensic pathologists can determine if it is due to human intervention or due to animals.
Yep, lots of wildlife in the area
Woombite
06-24-2012, 10:07 PM
What is your opinion regarding him now being held in the medical unit at the remand centre? Do you think it could be because he has had a break-down and is suicidal or could there be other reasons?
K2K would know more about procedure, but I understand Prison Mental Health keep a good eye on someone charged with something like murder anyhow. He would be subject to continual obs, particularly as there is a duty of care to ensure his safety. Remember he is still presumed to be innocent until proven guilty and that is a long way off. He could also be assessed as being at risk of harm from others in spite of it being a remand centre
If a person's health including mh deteriorates, transfer to a medical facility or authirised mh facility for short term assessment and treatment is always on the cards.
possumheart
06-24-2012, 10:10 PM
I read another post where they said the hands were NOT missing and this had come from the bail hearing.
I took this to mean they didn't say that the hands were missing ... Not that they said the hands weren't missing.
Sleuthilicious
06-24-2012, 10:10 PM
Do you know who started the thread ? KJ
And when she joined ws and why? A murder occured in NZ ?
I got shivers when I saw this post too ? And other posts? :what:
From memory, the poster lived quite close to the Baden-Clay's in Brookfield. She had good information...MOO
BreakingNews
06-24-2012, 10:10 PM
No - maybe on a court list somewhere? Heard from ABC relative
I don't think custody cases or family matters are open to the public. And I don't think names are used on court lists. That was my experience working with family services in the NT anyway.
CaseClosed
06-24-2012, 10:11 PM
I had wondered more along the lines of: did the culprit try to make it look like hit & run ?
I've always thought that his intention was to make it look like a random abduction/murder, hence the "she's gone for a walk" story.
WhatTheHey
06-24-2012, 10:12 PM
Because the details revealed at the bail hearing were really minimal, the missing hand thing could still be true. Bear in mind the body was exposed to the elements and animals for 11 days. The hand(s) could be missing due to animals in the area. Forensic pathologists can determine if it is due to human intervention or due to animals.
I tend to agree that we still cannot b sure either way (awful thought). Remember bail focused on COD, so there are issues post-mortem that might not have been presented at that particular hearing. Obviously hand thing (urrrgh) is not a COD issue as such. But all MOO, MOO etc
DunnoZo
06-24-2012, 10:13 PM
I was thinking about the caterpillar thing earlier....most of the hairy caterpillar's I've seen are in a web type nest at the base of trees although of course single ones can be found on a branch or leaf. I know GBC's house was on a rural type property with trees around it but I'm wondering if he was stung by them out at Kholo Creek??....maybe the hairs of caterpillars were found on his clothes & they were sent to that Forensic's doctor in Perth??...just a thought anyway.
Some info about caterpillar stings...
These hairs are fragile and easily dislodged from the caterpillar, they adhere to the surface of skin when the caterpiller is contacted, or they become airborne and on settling the barbed or dart hairs easily fragment and penetrate clothing or skin.
Clinical Presentation
The intensity of the irritation, whether it be caused by "venomous" or "irritating" hairs, will be dependent on the species of caterpillar and the sensitivity of the patient. Patients that come in contact with urticating hairs usually develop wheals and widespread rashes which can be accompanied by a burning sensation. Other symptoms include dermatitis, papules, pain, itching and swelling of the infected area. This inflammation can persist for days, although in most cases the symptoms are transitory. If mucous membranes have been affected there may be some swelling and irritation. Detached hairs can also be inhaled and the upper respiratory tract can be affected producing dyspnoea or laboured breathing. Injuries to the eye have been recorded, resulting in conditions such as nodular conjunctivitis and, less commonly, permanent damage to the cornea. In the case of a mistletoe browntail caterpillar infestation, large numbers of school age children have been known to become affected after sitting under infested Eucalyptus trees, or as a result of disturbing leaf litter and bark at the base of the trees where the caterpillars have rested or pupated
http://medent.usyd.edu.au/fact/caterpillars.htm
Just questioned a 9 yr.old who goes to Brookfield State School about hairy caterpillars. " We never touch them, we just squish them"
marlywings
06-24-2012, 10:15 PM
I read another post where they said the hands were NOT missing and this had come from the bail hearing.
From a post made by Nads who copied a post made by a mrs muddles on another site...
7. No visible signs of trauma on the body (no cut off hands), besides a chipped tooth
Opinionsgalore
06-24-2012, 10:15 PM
I've always thought that his intention was to make it look like a random abduction/murder, hence the "she's gone for a walk" story.
Mmmm, and probably where it all fell apart, random abduction/murder withOUT sexual assault would be incredibly 'random'.
MOO
CaseClosed
06-24-2012, 10:17 PM
I don't think custody cases or family matters are open to the public. And I don't think names are used on court lists. That was my experience working with family services in the NT anyway.
I agree re names not being made public. Even in findings of coroner's reports it is not stated, just some numbers, etc.
marlywings
06-24-2012, 10:21 PM
I've always thought that his intention was to make it look like a random abduction/murder, hence the "she's gone for a walk" story.
Yes & Inspector Ainsworth knocked the abduction thing on the head back on April 22, 2012
He ruled out the woman being abducted. Police said they "had some suspicions''
http://www.australianmissingpersonsregister.com/Baden-Clay.htm
CaseClosed
06-24-2012, 10:28 PM
I know that he is still considered innocent until proven guilty, but after the info revealed at the Bail Hearing, I have no doubt who committed this terrible horrible crime against an innocent good woman. I take some pleasure now knowing that he is behind steel doors, knowing he will be there for a few years at least, and not being able to enjoy anything at all. I take pleasure in thinking he is probably scratching walls, pounding tables, etc. All my personal opinion only.
Isabellnecessary
06-24-2012, 10:30 PM
Just questioned a 9 yr.old who goes to Brookfield State School about hairy caterpillars. " We never touch them, we just squish them"
Exactly.
For him to have got a caterpillar on his chest, I can imagine it could only have happened as he's in heavy undergrowth and one has got down his shirt. These things don't just crawl around everywhere, esp not in the world of the Real Estate office. They're usually on trees or bushes. I wonder when he could possibly have been in heavy undergrowth? :what:
Isabellnecessary
06-24-2012, 10:31 PM
Mmmm, and probably where it all fell apart, random abduction/murder withOUT sexual assault would be incredibly 'random'.
MOO
Perhaps this is where the 'interfering with the body' charge comes from? Perhaps he set her body up to look like it had been assaulted?
MOO
Firesnake
06-24-2012, 10:34 PM
Hi Everyone
Could somebody tell me if it is known where OW was on the Thursday night?
I know this has been discussed before but was it ever found out for sure?
Opinionsgalore
06-24-2012, 10:34 PM
I know that he is still considered innocent until proven guilty, but after the info revealed at the Bail Hearing, I have no doubt who committed this terrible horrible crime against an innocent good woman. I take some pleasure now knowing that he is behind steel doors, knowing he will be there for a few years at least, and not being able to enjoy anything at all. I take pleasure in thinking he is probably scratching walls, pounding tables, etc. All my personal opinion only.
I have been following these blogs for a while, and one thing that shone through was how much the people on this blog cared about Allison and want to see justice done for not only her, but her children and family.
The above quote (for me) exemplifies the shared feeling that many bloggers have openly displayed for the horror of the crime committed, and personally I agree with the sentiment of gaining satisfaction at the thought of her (accused) murderer being behind bars, and suffering deprivation.
All MOO
CaseClosed
06-24-2012, 10:35 PM
Perhaps this is where the 'interfering with the body' charge comes from? Perhaps he set her body up to look like it had been assaulted?
MOO
I think the interfering with the body is the moving of the body to another location and maybe also changing her clothes. If the perp went and dumped her under the bridge, then went back home to make up his story for the police and came up with the walking story, he then had to go back and change her clothes into sports gear. IMO.
marlywings
06-24-2012, 10:36 PM
Just questioned a 9 yr.old who goes to Brookfield State School about hairy caterpillars. " We never touch them, we just squish them"
Some years back, a high school teacher friend of mine, said some of the year 8 boys for some odd reason thought it a good idea to throw hairy caterpillars at each other during lunch break. Boys will be boys I guess!?!?!? ....one of them ended up at the doctor as he was allergic to them...his face/eyelids swelled up & had to be given antihistamines.
CaseClosed
06-24-2012, 10:37 PM
Hi Everyone
Could somebody tell me if it is known where OW was on the Thursday night?
I know this has been discussed before but was it ever found out for sure?
Another poster said his/her partner had seen OW at the cross country at the school on Thursday morning, hence we can probably assume she was in Brisbane that day.
marlywings
06-24-2012, 10:39 PM
Exactly.
For him to have got a caterpillar on his chest, I can imagine it could only have happened as he's in heavy undergrowth and one has got down his shirt. These things don't just crawl around everywhere, esp not in the world of the Real Estate office. They're usually on trees or bushes. I wonder when he could possibly have been in heavy undergrowth? :what:
In my post on previous page about caterpillars, I said I wondered if the caterpillar stings were from Kholo Creek.
Opinionsgalore
06-24-2012, 10:39 PM
Perhaps this is where the 'interfering with the body' charge comes from? Perhaps he set her body up to look like it had been assaulted?
MOO
I had thought that too, until the bail hearing said that there were no visible signs. Which was why I wondered about hit & run: was her body run over, ( oh- that's just horrible !!!!) no visible external signs, but perhaps marks on clothes and internal damage. MOO
possumheart
06-24-2012, 10:46 PM
I have always thought that the Indro car crash was a mind game with the little girls. Mummy is gone and you almost lost Daddy. Hold me close, poor daddy. MOO
CaseClosed
06-24-2012, 10:47 PM
I had thought that too, until the bail hearing said that there were no visible signs. Which was why I wondered about hit & run: was her body run over, ( oh- that's just horrible !!!!) no visible external signs, but perhaps marks on clothes and internal damage. MOO
If the body had no trauma (as stated at the bail hearing), she wasn't run over IMO. She would have had some broken bones and head injuries.
Opinionsgalore
06-24-2012, 10:50 PM
If the body had no trauma (as stated at the bail hearing), she wasn't run over IMO. She would have had some broken bones and head injuries.
Ah ok, my error :) I miscomprehended the 'no trauma', I thought they were just talking external - thanks for clearing that up :D
CaseClosed
06-24-2012, 10:51 PM
I have always thought that the Indro car crash was a mind game with the little girls. Mummy is gone and you almost lost Daddy. Hold me close, poor daddy. MOO
My thought is that he was trying to avoid questioning by police until he had time to seek legal advise and/or get his story right, especially if there was someone else involved after the fact. I don't believe the rumour that he walked into the police beat or station and said "I'm sorry", because it has been stated in the media that he was taken to hospital by ambulance from the scene of the accident.
angel1
06-24-2012, 10:56 PM
I think in one of the news reports (possibly one of the ones where he didn't get bail) i seen something mentioned about if this goes to trial Does anyone know what happens if it doesn't go to trial?? I'm trying to find the link but not having much success
OakingtonAve
06-24-2012, 10:57 PM
Omg - they say everyone in the world has a doppelganger - you are mine - your story is almost identical to mine - lol....
Sleuthilicious
06-24-2012, 10:58 PM
I found this on thread 1- posted by Alicat
Quote:
Originally Posted by kiwijayne
Also further along there is Mt Crosby, a State Forest and even a Lake. The thing in this area there is plenty of places to hide something or someone.
I'm out this way and I kept getting eerie feelings around Kholo Creek overpass. I know it probably sounds silly, but its the 'what if.'
Kalamityk, I've just been back through thread 1 and I can't find where Kiwijayne mentioned Kholo Creek Overpass. Would you mind popping in the link to this comment? It's a great observation by the initial poster and fantastic find by you :)
CaseClosed
06-24-2012, 11:00 PM
I think in one of the news reports (possibly one of the ones where he didn't get bail) i seen something mentioned about if this goes to trial Does anyone know what happens if it doesn't go to trial?? I'm trying to find the link but not having much success
If the Judge at the Committal Hearing establishes that there is not enough evidence, he will be released and the charges dropped. If at the Committal Hearing, the Judge decides there is enough evidence to got to trial, GBC will be asked to enter a plea. If he pleads "guilty", then there is no trial but just a sentencing hearing. If he pleads "not guilty", then a trial date is set.
Sleuthilicious
06-24-2012, 11:01 PM
Omg - they say everyone in the world has a doppelganger - you are mine - your story is almost identical to mine - lol....
Oakington, hi and welcome! It helps people to follow your posts a bit better if you press the 'quote' button on the relevant post that you are referring to or responding to. That way other posters know what you are referring to. You can then enter your response above or below he quoted text. For dummies like me it's helpful :)
See how silly I am, I didn't even mean to post the symbol in the header!!! Sorry :/
possumheart
06-24-2012, 11:01 PM
Another thought I had is that GBC might have made the enquiry about the insurance claim when the body was found under duress from his legal team who were worried about how he was going to pay for their services. If so it makes them all look grubby. MOO
possumheart
06-24-2012, 11:02 PM
Omg - they say everyone in the world has a doppelganger - you are mine - your story is almost identical to mine - lol....
Please elaborate
angel1
06-24-2012, 11:03 PM
If the Judge at the Committal Hearing establishes that there is not enough evidence, he will be released and the charges dropped. If at the Committal Hearing, the Judge decides there is enough evidence to got to trial, GBC will be asked to enter a plea. If he pleads "guilty", then there is no trial but just a sentencing hearing. If he pleads "not guilty", then a trial date is set.
Thankyou for explaining that i have no idea when it comes to legal talk lol :banghead:
CaseClosed
06-24-2012, 11:04 PM
Another thought I had is that GBC might have made the enquiry about the insurance claim when the body was found under duress from his legal team who were worried about how he was going to pay for their services. If so it makes them all look grubby. MOO
I don't think so, because his lawyers would know that this would be very incriminating for GBC.
possumheart
06-24-2012, 11:09 PM
I don't think so, because his lawyers would know that this would be very incriminating for GBC.
Who ever said they even like him or want to defend him if he can't pay? Not saying they dialed the insurance company for him. Thinking he needed some cash to keep them on side. MOO
LauraMars
06-24-2012, 11:10 PM
I keep thinking about the sketch of TM's home, that was apparently done by GBC and found in Allison's journal...
"-Entries in Allison's journal on April 18 and 19 talked of the affair and a hand drawn map of Ms McHugh's home was allegedly done by Baden-Clay - proving, the crown alleged, that they had been speaking about his relationship with another woman."
http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/security-sweep-ahead-of-gerard-baden-clay-bail-hearing/story-e6freon6-1226405120615
Why would that sketch be there in her journal? All I can think of is that either Allison found the drawing, and put it there, but more likely that it was one of the many sadistic, cruel things GBC did to Allison, in order to cause her grief. I can't for the life of me see how this could be a councelling exercise?
I was involved with a classic sociopath for a few years, over 20 years ago. (he was even professionally diagnosed as such, many years after I left him)
He had many other women in those years, some of whom admitted it to me, and a few that were caught in the act. The strange thing was he often used to drop hints and info to me about these women, things like what their house was like, their clothes/appearance, even little things like what perfume they wore. With one he even left her lacy undies on the passenger seat of our car lol, but definitely with the aim of me finding them. It was less than subtle game playing, although there was never a direct admission of the affairs, even when questioned. It was overall just another attempt from him to mind f--k me.
Some people like this seem to almost relish in causing suspician, while denying things to the bitter end.
CaseClosed
06-24-2012, 11:13 PM
Who ever said they even like him or want to defend him if he can't pay? Not saying they dialed the insurance company for him. Thinking he needed some cash to keep them on side. MOO
The way I see it, is that he is accused of murder. No insurance company will pay anything at this stage. Insurance companies conduct their own investigations, which in this case is just following what the Court is doing. IMO.
Isabellnecessary
06-24-2012, 11:16 PM
Why would that sketch be there in her journal? All I can think of is that either Allison found the drawing, and put it there, but more likely that it was one of the many sadistic, cruel things GBC did to Allison, in order to cause her grief. I can't for the life of me see how this could be a councelling exercise?
I had some weird, weird counselling with my now ex. Totally and utterly surreal.
As a child, my father had yelled at me a lot and yet one counsellor we saw said that it was totally ok for my ex to yell at me in our sessions and to let out all his anger... I was terrified.
The next counsellor said it was not ok.... and he should not do it because it was abusive... which was great.... But then she had totally weird methods and at one point we ended up in a session doing 'sandplay' ... which is something they usually do with children.
For me, having him draw a plan to his woman's house in a session wouldn't be such a far stretch. As the cheated on spouse, sometimes you have questions that you need answering... some of them are very odd questions.
My charming ex cheated on me with someone when I was pregnant... but denied it all the way through. I wanted intimate details of what their relationship was like but of course, he said they only ever kissed. Uh yeah, right.
When you're being cheated on, you're not rational.
Liadan
06-24-2012, 11:18 PM
I am so hoping that Mr. Danny Boyle is a total ace prosecutor. And it is interesting that Davis didn't get his supression wish for their case. I am wondering what information the prosecution will present and how they will run their case. I wonder if the defense guys are trying to get GBC to plead guilty??????
I was just doing some detective work about the names on the list that was published from the other site. And noticed that the respondents were previous and perhaps work colleagues that would have probably had to give character representations for GBC - from memory I think you need to get people to write a spiel about how long you have known them and that they are good person etc.
These are listed below from what I can come up friends of GBC from FB and also old colleagues from the real estate cliche. The one in green I couldn't find any info on. The blue ones are respondents and would anyone have any idea what they would be responding to? (Maybe I have go this the wrong way round the respondent and applicant thing.)
8 21/06/2012 Affidavit PA NEGEREVICH Respondent
9 21/06/2012 Affidavit PJ RODDICK Respondent
10 21/06/2012 Affidavit PB CRANNA Applicant
11 21/06/2012 Affidavit TE CRANNA Applicant
12 21/06/2012 Affidavit IL THOMAS Applicant
13 21/06/2012 Affidavit P NEGEREVICH Respondent
possumheart
06-24-2012, 11:19 PM
LauraMars
People like this have no respect for anyone who loves them. They see it as a fault. MOO
Spotted Reptile
06-24-2012, 11:21 PM
Just made my donation to Allison's Children Appeal. I'm so glad the Courier Mail printed the details. I keep thinking about those girls and their grandparents who never thought they'd be in the situation of raising 3 children and having to provide for their education and living expenses. 3 kids are expensive as we all know. I know they will get some support, but it's still an uphill struggle to provide for them in their retirement.
I just hope the Dickies found some comfort and faith in the cricket day and the responses from the community.
CaseClosed
06-24-2012, 11:24 PM
I had some weird, weird counselling with my now ex. Totally and utterly surreal.
As a child, my father had yelled at me a lot and yet one counsellor we saw said that it was totally ok for my ex to yell at me in our sessions and to let out all his anger... I was terrified.
The next counsellor said it was not ok.... and he should not do it because it was abusive... which was great.... But then she had totally weird methods and at one point we ended up in a session doing 'sandplay' ... which is something they usually do with children.
For me, having him draw a plan to his woman's house in a session wouldn't be such a far stretch. As the cheated on spouse, sometimes you have questions that you need answering... some of them are very odd questions.
My charming ex cheated on me with someone when I was pregnant... but denied it all the way through. I wanted intimate details of what their relationship was like but of course, he said they only ever kissed. Uh yeah, right.
When you're being cheated on, you're not rational.
Unfortunately, I think there are many people out there calling themselves "councellors" without the proper qualifications - this is just my very personal opinion. Also, in my personal opinion, these counselling sessions are stretched to continue lining the pockets of the councellor. I only believe in "mediation" in the sense of having someone neutral present while the two parties let out their feelings and talk without yelling, screaming, abusing, etc.
OakingtonAve
06-24-2012, 11:25 PM
I thought he'd crashed the car to give himself time to think away from the police. MOO.
In the last thread, someone mentioned divorce was expensive. Not if you're bankrupt or receiving Centrelink (government assistance in Australia).
My ex husband was a narcissist. I can completely get how BC presents this 'charming' man to people.
When my marriage finally fell apart, my ex had moments of extreme anger where he subjected me to hideous verbal abuse. He would stand on my doorstep, yelling how I had broken his heart, how I was a b**ch, slut, whore... he suggested I had become a prostitute which was how I was 'surviving' without him.... 'I hope you're not doing anything which will embarrass the family...' he said.
He told everyone in our local and small community that i was a pathological liar and that I was mentally unstable - and that he was going to have our children removed from me.
Nearly 5 years down the line, it is me who's active in our community, who has the children living with her other than two weekends a month, who runs a small local business, who has a wide network of friends. He... is not doing so great. I survived his abuse and his lies, rebuilt my life.
Whilst I lost all my friends (his friends actually), I also lost my family support because they could not get their heads around that the person they thought they knew could be as I said he was.
They sided with him because if I reported anything he'd done to me, they'd ring him up and he'd lie through his teeth about how I was ill and unstable. And they fell for it because he was a 'nice man'.
Ironically it was only when he decided he wouldn't pay his child support to me did my family start to believe he wasn't so nice. It all comes down to money.
BC could have declared bankruptcy, could have got some gov assistance and as a result, could have applied for a free divorce or greatly subsidised. Also, his wife who also could have received Centrelink benefits if he'd left her. Single parent income, free divorce. It's what she paid her taxes for.
The nice man I originally thought I married doesn't actually exist. It's just a 'charm offensive'. Therefore it's highly credible for his family to be sticking up for him, his sister etc, because they simply can't believe he can possibly have done it. It's only when the evidence is indisputable will they finally start to doubt the story. They are all going to have a very hard time over the coming months.
THIS was the post I was referring to re doppelganger - I DID press the quote button, but it didn't bring this one up...
Spotted Reptile
06-24-2012, 11:25 PM
I keep thinking about the sketch of TM's home, that was apparently done by GBC and found in Allison's journal...
"-Entries in Allison's journal on April 18 and 19 talked of the affair and a hand drawn map of Ms McHugh's home was allegedly done by Baden-Clay - proving, the crown alleged, that they had been speaking about his relationship with another woman."
http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/security-sweep-ahead-of-gerard-baden-clay-bail-hearing/story-e6freon6-1226405120615
Why would that sketch be there in her journal? All I can think of is that either Allison found the drawing, and put it there, but more likely that it was one of the many sadistic, cruel things GBC did to Allison, in order to cause her grief. I can't for the life of me see how this could be a councelling exercise?
I was involved with a classic sociopath for a few years, over 20 years ago. (he was even professionally diagnosed as such, many years after I left him)
He had many other women in those years, some of whom admitted it to me, and a few that were caught in the act. The strange thing was he often used to drop hints and info to me about these women, things like what their house was like, their clothes/appearance, even little things like what perfume they wore. With one he even left her lacy undies on the passenger seat of our car lol, but definitely with the aim of me finding them. It was less than subtle game playing, although there was never a direct admission of the affairs, even when questioned. It was overall just another attempt from him to mind f--k me.
Some people like this seem to almost relish in causing suspician, while denying things to the bitter end.
I'm glad you were able to get away from him. It must have been very difficult to fathom out why he was doing and saying what he did, and wondering whether you were the cause of some of it. At least you were given a reason, although it couldn't erase what he had done to you. :blowkiss:
Opinionsgalore
06-24-2012, 11:26 PM
Posted at midday:
Baden-Clay to be protected prisoner:
http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/watched-prisoner-not-able-to-cope/story-e6freon6-1226406495736
Opinionsgalore
06-24-2012, 11:27 PM
Posted at midday:
Baden-Clay to be protected prisoner:
http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/watched-prisoner-not-able-to-cope/story-e6freon6-1226406495736
My bad, this was from yesterday.
Isabellnecessary
06-24-2012, 11:30 PM
THIS was the post I was referring to re doppelganger - I DID press the quote button, but it didn't bring this one up...
Ohhh, hello. *waves*
There are some scary narcissist men out there, eh? Even worse, we fell for it.
Right now, BC will be trying to work out how to maintain his innocence. Even if he's jailed, he'll never tell the truth. To tell the truth would be to take off the mask that he wears. It's too difficult.
possumheart
06-24-2012, 11:31 PM
My bad, this was from yesterday.
Curious: is "my bad" an Americanism, because it makes no linguistic sense.
Isabellnecessary
06-24-2012, 11:33 PM
Unfortunately, I think there are many people out there calling themselves "councellors" without the proper qualifications - this is just my very personal opinion. Also, in my personal opinion, these counselling sessions are stretched to continue lining the pockets of the councellor. I only believe in "mediation" in the sense of having someone neutral present while the two parties let out their feelings and talk without yelling, screaming, abusing, etc.
Yeah, well I did mediation too and it was a disaster. The mediator took his side. Totally unprofessional and yes I put in a complaint to them.. they were meant to be neutral.
There are so many different types of counselling, you have to keep going until you find one you like. What other reason would be for her to have a drawing of the house, unless she's cased it and was planning to break in?
Perhaps truly what she needed was to see how well he knew the house? Or something. It's truly odd... who knows. I guess if they really want to know, they can get the counsellor to spill.... ?
Opinionsgalore
06-24-2012, 11:35 PM
Curious: is "my bad" an Americanism, because it makes no linguistic sense.
I have no idea, I'm a born & bred Aussie, and have used the expression for many years.
Curiousasacat
06-24-2012, 11:36 PM
RE: witness about the caterpillar. I wonder if this is why he went to see a Doctor the day after reporting her missing and a day before his accident at Indoorapilly? To have a medical practioner as his witness?
I am surprised no one has mentioned that perhaps the caterpillar bite came when he may have been in the bush near Kholo creek? MOO :moo:
Premature replyination.....Sorry Marly..... I see you did. I'll go back in my corner and catch up again. :blushing:
Isabellnecessary
06-24-2012, 11:38 PM
I have no idea, I'm a born & bred Aussie, and have used the expression for many years.
LOL - originally American yes. It's nearly as bad as ending a sentence with 'but'. :floorlaugh:
Isn't that right, but. ;)
Isabellnecessary
06-24-2012, 11:38 PM
I am surprised no one has mentioned that perhaps the caterpillar bite came when he may have been in the bush near Kholo creek? MOO :moo:
That has come up a few times before... .
BreakingNews
06-24-2012, 11:39 PM
I think in one of the news reports (possibly one of the ones where he didn't get bail) i seen something mentioned about if this goes to trial Does anyone know what happens if it doesn't go to trial?? I'm trying to find the link but not having much success
If he pleads guilty there is no need for a trial. Only sentencing.
Opinionsgalore
06-24-2012, 11:41 PM
LOL - originally American yes. It's nearly as bad as ending a sentence with 'but'. :floorlaugh:
Isn't that right, but. ;)
Lol, gotta love WS's I'm learning new things :D
Opinionsgalore
06-24-2012, 11:42 PM
If he pleads guilty there is no need for a trial. Only sentencing.
That's my understanding, when I looked up 'committal hearing' this was one of the points.
Sleuthilicious
06-24-2012, 11:45 PM
I am so hoping that Mr. Danny Boyle is a total ace prosecutor. And it is interesting that Davis didn't get his supression wish for their case. I am wondering what information the prosecution will present and how they will run their case. I wonder if the defense guys are trying to get GBC to plead guilty??????
I was just doing some detective work about the names on the list that was published from the other site. And noticed that the respondents were previous and perhaps work colleagues that would have probably had to give character representations for GBC - from memory I think you need to get people to write a spiel about how long you have known them and that they are good person etc.
These are listed below from what I can come up friends of GBC from FB and also old colleagues from the real estate cliche. The one in green I couldn't find any info on. The blue ones are respondents and would anyone have any idea what they would be responding to? (Maybe I have go this the wrong way round the respondent and applicant thing.)
8 21/06/2012 Affidavit PA NEGEREVICH Respondent
9 21/06/2012 Affidavit PJ RODDICK Respondent
10 21/06/2012 Affidavit PB CRANNA Applicant
11 21/06/2012 Affidavit TE CRANNA Applicant
12 21/06/2012 Affidavit IL THOMAS Applicant
13 21/06/2012 Affidavit P NEGEREVICH Respondent
Looking at some of those, the Cranna's appear to have very recently become fb friends with Most of the the Baden-Clay/Walton's clan. Including Nigelaine...
J-Diggety
06-24-2012, 11:46 PM
Curious: is "my bad" an Americanism, because it makes no linguistic sense.
Lot of people are using it now, I hear it everywhere.
Essentially its "My fault"
LauraMars
06-24-2012, 11:47 PM
I had some weird, weird counselling with my now ex. Totally and utterly surreal.
As a child, my father had yelled at me a lot and yet one counsellor we saw said that it was totally ok for my ex to yell at me in our sessions and to let out all his anger... I was terrified.
The next counsellor said it was not ok.... and he should not do it because it was abusive... which was great.... But then she had totally weird methods and at one point we ended up in a session doing 'sandplay' ... which is something they usually do with children.
For me, having him draw a plan to his woman's house in a session wouldn't be such a far stretch. As the cheated on spouse, sometimes you have questions that you need answering... some of them are very odd questions.
My charming ex cheated on me with someone when I was pregnant... but denied it all the way through. I wanted intimate details of what their relationship was like but of course, he said they only ever kissed. Uh yeah, right.
When you're being cheated on, you're not rational.
You're right Isabell, there are some pretty kooky councellors out there.
I guess it could have been at Allison's suggestion that he draw TM's house, particularly if they were talking separation and future logistics of where the girls might sleep?
I don't know...I just found that whole drawing thing so creepy
possumheart
06-24-2012, 11:48 PM
Have been through a biggie myself (victim) and I think all evidence is tabled at the Commital to see if there is a case to be answered.
BreakingNews
06-24-2012, 11:52 PM
Unfortunately, I think there are many people out there calling themselves "councellors" without the proper qualifications - this is just my very personal opinion. Also, in my personal opinion, these counselling sessions are stretched to continue lining the pockets of the councellor. I only believe in "mediation" in the sense of having someone neutral present while the two parties let out their feelings and talk without yelling, screaming, abusing, etc.
I've said this before. I know of a convicted murderer who did a psych or social work degree while he was in jail. Now he is out, with name change and maybe, just maybe using his qualification to counsel people. Makes me feel very sick. This was a pre-meditated cold blooded murder.
ozazure
06-24-2012, 11:52 PM
Hi Everyone
Could somebody tell me if it is known where OW was on the Thursday night?
I know this has been discussed before but was it ever found out for sure?
I wonder if she was staying at mum and dad's and using dad's ipad??
I am so glad that there is evidence that someone in the bc clan knew his sleeping alibi was a bunch of horsepoo and they were not upfront with the police. While their reputation is probably shot anyway, I am glad there is outright evidence they were a snake in the grass to Allison, mother of their grandchildren. Along with my 4 sister-in-laws, I also have ex-sister in laws, with varying degrees of contact, but their status as my nieces and nephews mothers is sacrosanct, they are family and deserving of the same loyalty as my siblings. I imagine I will have the same or even deeper feeling for the mother and father of any of my grandkids. You can support your son in his (created by himself) time of need while respecting your DIL and grandkids, all it requires is you tell the bloody truth.
As for the other charges, I will be surprised if the interfering with a body is much more than the indignity of dumping her like rubbish. It is so offensive.
Curiousasacat
06-24-2012, 11:53 PM
That has come up a few times before... .
Yep, edited my post. Sorry.
My bad but!
BJsleuth
06-24-2012, 11:54 PM
I read another post where they said the hands were NOT missing and this had come from the bail hearing.
I have a theory on this.. Degloving. It could just mean the hands weren't severed as part of the crime. It doesn't mean it didn't happen as part of natural processes post mortem. IMO
possumheart
06-24-2012, 11:54 PM
You're right Isabell, there are some pretty kooky councellors out there.
I guess it could have been at Allison's suggestion that he draw TM's house, particularly if they were talking separation and future logistics of where the girls might sleep?
I don't know...I just found that whole drawing thing so creepy
Yay. My quoter is working. I had a dreadful counsellor who wanted me to make clay phalluses, glaze them and kiln fire them, and then smash them. Dear oh dear. What a freak.
possumheart
06-24-2012, 11:56 PM
I have a theory on this.. Degloving. It could just mean the hands weren't severed as part of the crime. It doesn't mean it didn't happen as part of natural processes post mortem. IMO
I totally agree.
Opinionsgalore
06-24-2012, 11:58 PM
Yay. My quoter is working. I had a dreadful counsellor who wanted me to make clay phalluses, glaze them and kiln fire them, and then smash them. Dear oh dear. What a freak.
What the ...... ???
Good Lord ! Did the counsellor give an explanation as to why ? That's just wrong on so many levels !!
Spotted Reptile
06-24-2012, 11:59 PM
Yay. My quoter is working. I had a dreadful counsellor who wanted me to make clay phalluses, glaze them and kiln fire them, and then smash them. Dear oh dear. What a freak.
Ye gods. Was that his/her idea of positive reinforcement? :floorlaugh:
bearbear
06-25-2012, 12:00 AM
Mine came from a gf who knows a helper at the school where the children are but has no doubt been proven to be heresay, hence the apology. It was not the first time I had heard the hands rumour but this too proved to be false.
Therefore I shall shut up and post no further gossip:what:
no, dont shut up, its interesting hearing what the locals have to say. we all know its rumour at the moment but lots of these rumours and speculation have proven true so far. even the hands rumour may still prove to be true,(hope not!!) as horrible as that would be!
possumheart
06-25-2012, 12:01 AM
I am hoping that Allison laundered and ironed his business clothes and put hairy caterpillars inside them.
Curiousasacat
06-25-2012, 12:03 AM
I've always thought that his intention was to make it look like a random abduction/murder, hence the "she's gone for a walk" story.
IMO
Plan A - Suicide
Plan B -Abduction
Plan C- Just shut the F up. :moo:
LauraMars
06-25-2012, 12:04 AM
Yay. My quoter is working. I had a dreadful counsellor who wanted me to make clay phalluses, glaze them and kiln fire them, and then smash them. Dear oh dear. What a freak.
OMG possumheart! That's pretty out there isn't it?!
Isabellnecessary
06-25-2012, 12:05 AM
Yay. My quoter is working. I had a dreadful counsellor who wanted me to make clay phalluses, glaze them and kiln fire them, and then smash them. Dear oh dear. What a freak.
So wrong but so so so funny!
:floorlaugh:
Sorry! :blushing:
In my 'sandplay' session.... I had this tub of sand and the counsellor asked us to pick objects... and place them in the sand.
I picked up a pretty china fish and made ripples in the sand around it. He made this island with these people on it, trees, very intricate, big story behind it...
She asked me for my interpretation but I didn't have one... I just like minimalism. And I'm an artist so I went for aesthetically appealing on the basis I couldn't think of anything.
She went on to explain I thought I was a big fish in a little pond, that I didn't want to cause ripples... blah blah blah.
I asked her if she'd studied Freud.
She wasn't impressed. She later told my ex that I was a danger to him and that he must get away from me and the children... which sent him into hyperdrive weirdo territory. She caused a great deal of damage.
Firesnake
06-25-2012, 12:11 AM
I wonder if she was staying at mum and dad's and using dad's ipad??
I am so glad that there is evidence that someone in the bc clan knew his sleeping alibi was a bunch of horsepoo and they were not upfront with the police. While their reputation is probably shot anyway, I am glad there is outright evidence they were a snake in the grass to Allison, mother of their grandchildren. Along with my 4 sister-in-laws, I also have ex-sister in laws, with varying degrees of contact, but their status as my nieces and nephews mothers is sacrosanct, they are family and deserving of the same loyalty as my siblings. I imagine I will have the same or even deeper feeling for the mother and father of any of my grandkids. You can support your son in his (created by himself) time of need while respecting your DIL and grandkids, all it requires is you tell the bloody truth.
As for the other charges, I will be surprised if the interfering with a body is much more than the indignity of dumping her like rubbish. It is so offensive.
This has bugged me since I saw OW say she spoke to Allison the night before she went missing which I presumed to be the Wednesday night..then I know it could be rumour but I believed the poster at the time that OW was at the cross country that Thursday. Why didn't she say she had seen Allison the day she went missing, I'm under the impression that Allison also attended the cross country. Just something not right.
If OW was in Brisbane where would she have been staying??
WHO stayed with the girls while GBC was apparently at Kholo Creek. I can not imagine that they were left alone and I read not sure if true that OW took girls to school that Friday morning... Arghhh
I am just beyond sad for Allisons three beautiful daughters and what they have had taken away from them. Thank God they have the Dickies and Allisons wonderful friends.
All IMO
willough
06-25-2012, 12:13 AM
I had wondered more along the lines of: did the culprit try to make it look like hit & run ?
I think the culprit wanted it to lok like a suicide. She was depressed and went for a walk at night. She hitchhiked a ride out toward the direction of Kholo Creek.....and the person dropped her off. She walked aimlessly around, until she found this bridge and jumped. Only flaw, some say the height on the bridge isnt high enough to kill oneself.
Off topic....Those interested in Darcey Freeman....We drove over the bridge she was thrown off. It was the first time since she was murdered by her father....and it used to feel so wonderful going over that bridge....Both hubby and I agreed, it's just no fun anymore......We loved looking at the industrial aspect of Melbourne (I know weird). But we live in a beautiful rainforest like setting east of Melbourne and its nice to see the opposite sometimes. They have also put really high guard rails up so no-one can do this again and noone can kill themselves.....Its hard not to think of her as you go over :(
kalamityk
06-25-2012, 12:15 AM
Kalamityk, I've just been back through thread 1 and I can't find where Kiwijayne mentioned Kholo Creek Overpass. Would you mind popping in the link to this comment? It's a great observation by the initial poster and fantastic find by you :)
Sorry I didn't do the quote thing properly at the top I stated posted by alicat but then it quoted alicat's post and she/he was quoting kiwijane's post
Sorry for the confusion
FirstTimer
06-25-2012, 12:16 AM
LOL - originally American yes. It's nearly as bad as ending a sentence with 'but'. :floorlaugh:
Isn't that right, but. ;)
Yeah, hey !
LauraMars
06-25-2012, 12:19 AM
I can fully imagine that he would leave them alone sleeping in the house, if he's prepared to murder their mother.
I think there have been reports on here of people seeing GBC at the cross-country, but not Allison (doesn't mean she wasn't there of course)
Also so many varying posts about OW's whereabouts around the time - including she was in town by the Thursday, arrived Friday, and also arrived Saturday, so not sure we can really go on any one as being accurate?
MOO
CaseClosed
06-25-2012, 12:19 AM
This has bugged me since I saw OW say she spoke to Allison the night before she went missing which I presumed to be the Wednesday night..then I know it could be rumour but I believed the poster at the time that OW was at the cross country that Thursday. Why didn't she say she had seen Allison the day she went missing, I'm under the impression that Allison also attended the cross country. Just something not right.
If OW was in Brisbane where would she have been staying??
WHO stayed with the girls while GBC was apparently at Kholo Creek. I can not imagine that they were left alone and I read not sure if true that OW took girls to school that Friday morning... Arghhh
I am just beyond sad for Allisons three beautiful daughters and what they have had taken away from them. Thank God they have the Dickies and Allisons wonderful friends.
All IMO
A poster confirmed Allison was not at the cross country but she picked-up the kids at the end of it.
Curiousasacat
06-25-2012, 12:19 AM
Yay. My quoter is working. I had a dreadful counsellor who wanted me to make clay phalluses, glaze them and kiln fire them, and then smash them. Dear oh dear. What a freak.
Eeeww. OMG. Was it an old guy with a bald head who drove a car with Bwana number plates?
DunnoZo
06-25-2012, 12:20 AM
OT, Breaking News, FYI every time I see a post from you and see "Breaking News" it makes my heart race!
I'm sure the journal would be an interesting find. I wonder if someone else may have drawn the map? either allison, or one of the girls? I often wonder what kind of relationship A & the girls had, especially the elder, were they very close/honest/open? or not? Maybe the girls were close w/TM? If it was TM that GBC was with @ the Brooky show, the girls looked very comfortable with her. Dunno if it was indeed her though... MOOO
FirstTimer
06-25-2012, 12:21 AM
Yay. My quoter is working. I had a dreadful counsellor who wanted me to make clay phalluses, glaze them and kiln fire them, and then smash them. Dear oh dear. What a freak.
what a d i c k ! :what: (sorry)
CaseClosed
06-25-2012, 12:22 AM
I wonder what QPS tactics are now. Will there be another arrest before the Committal Hearing or will they wait for the outcome of the hearing? If they wait, IMO they run the risk of any accessories packing their bags and taking off. IMO.
Caviar
06-25-2012, 12:22 AM
RE: witness about the caterpillar. I wonder if this is why he went to see a Doctor the day after reporting her missing and a day before his accident at Indoorapilly? To have a medical practioner as his witness?
I believe you are right here.
Thinking
06-25-2012, 12:28 AM
OT, Breaking News, FYI every time I see a post from you and see "Breaking News" it makes my heart race!
I'm sure the journal would be an interesting find. I wonder if someone else may have drawn the map? either allison, or one of the girls? I often wonder what kind of relationship A & the girls had, especially the elder, were they very close/honest/open? or not? Maybe the girls were close w/TM? If it was TM that GBC was with @ the Brooky show, the girls looked very comfortable with her. Dunno if it was indeed her though... MOOO
I have also wondered if TM was at the funeral? I'm sure this has been discussed and I can't recall, I'm sorry. Greg could probably answer this from memory?
possumheart
06-25-2012, 12:29 AM
Eeeww. OMG. Was it an old guy with a bald head who drove a car with Bwana number plates?
No, but I had lost my court case and the accused 2 brothers used GBCs current barrister. So I was really worn down. She just said I had been totally screwed over by men. She hated the barrister also.
CaseClosed
06-25-2012, 12:30 AM
OT, Breaking News, FYI every time I see a post from you and see "Breaking News" it makes my heart race!
I'm sure the journal would be an interesting find. I wonder if someone else may have drawn the map? either allison, or one of the girls? I often wonder what kind of relationship A & the girls had, especially the elder, were they very close/honest/open? or not? Maybe the girls were close w/TM? If it was TM that GBC was with @ the Brooky show, the girls looked very comfortable with her. Dunno if it was indeed her though... MOOO
What do you mean? :what: Was he there with a woman? I don't recall hearing this before. Did you see them yourself?
Curious: is "my bad" an Americanism, because it makes no linguistic sense.
Ir's common Australian language now too.
Liadan
06-25-2012, 12:31 AM
So far we have been pretty aware of the movements of the elder BC's and GBC but have heard nothing about OW. What was she doing all day after the kids cross country. Was OW babysitting the 3 kids for ABC - maybe this is what ABC meant when she spoke to the hairdresser saying she had the night off.
And if OW was sleeping in GBC's house as well when ABC was being murdered. (She must have been a better sleeper than GBC if this is the case!)I can't fathom how she could be at GBC's house when ABC was murdered sometime that night and remain so pro BC.
Or was she staying at the EBC and NBC house. And maybe the phone call with face time was for her to answer because it was to the iPad and NBC had gone to bed by this stage I haven't had too much experience letting Facetime wake me up but that is just me.
So would have OW stayed to look after the kids with GBC all nite? Did she stay with GBC and did she go around that roundaboutand park at the bridge in her blue rental car?
If i was the QPS I would be examining the phone of Ms OW. Methinks she protests too much to be too honest in her dealings to date.
Mothergoose
06-25-2012, 12:32 AM
If he pleads guilty there is no need for a trial. Only sentencing.
:waitasec:Would I be right in assuming that if he pleads guilty ,that evidence gathered against him would thereby NOT BE PRESENTED .Making the importance of the face call between GBC and NBC not relevant, thereby releasing NBC from any suspicion in the case ? :waitasec:
willough
06-25-2012, 12:33 AM
A poster confirmed Allison was not at the cross country but she picked-up the kids at the end of it.
I wonder whether this means that Allison was leaving him....as in already told him, "That's it Gerard" and he had to do the AWFUL deed that night (like someone said earlier in the piece, it was intended to be done a month later, but had to be bought forward).
To me it seems that Olivia may have been at the cross country to support Gerard, incase he saw Allison and a blow up ensued. Instead Alison stayed away and came at the end to pick them up.
BJsleuth
06-25-2012, 12:35 AM
So far we have been pretty aware of the movements of the elder BC's and GBC but have heard nothing about OW. What was she doing all day after the kids cross country. Was OW babysitting the 3 kids for ABC - maybe this is what ABC meant when she spoke to the hairdresser saying she had the night off.
And if OW was sleeping in GBC's house as well when ABC was being murdered. (She must have been a better sleeper than GBC if this is the case!)I can't fathom how she could be at GBC's house when ABC was murdered sometime that night and remain so pro BC.
Or was she staying at the EBC and NBC house. And maybe the phone call with face time was for her to answer because it was to the iPad and NBC had gone to bed by this stage I haven't had too much experience letting Facetime wake me up but that is just me.
So would have OW stayed to look after the kids with GBC all nite? Did she stay with GBC and did she go around that roundaboutand park at the bridge in her blue rental car?
If i was the QPS I would be examining the phone of Ms OW. Methinks she protests too much to be too honest in her dealings to date.
If she was present then it's within her interest to have him not guilty isn't it? If it's declared he didn't do it then she can't be an accessory?
Curiousasacat
06-25-2012, 12:35 AM
OT, Breaking News, FYI every time I see a post from you and see "Breaking News" it makes my heart race!
I'm sure the journal would be an interesting find. I wonder if someone else may have drawn the map? either allison, or one of the girls? I often wonder what kind of relationship A & the girls had, especially the elder, were they very close/honest/open? or not? Maybe the girls were close w/TM? If it was TM that GBC was with @ the Brooky show, the girls looked very comfortable with her. Dunno if it was indeed her though... MOOO
Same re breaking news and Summer Breeze gets that song in my head all day :banghead:
Someone I know very well was at Allison's funeral. She was accompanying(as a helping hand and nothing else) an older "gossipy" lady who informed this person that they were sitting directly behind TM. TM was allegedly sitting quite far back in the church and the 3 girls acknowledged this lady with waves as did 3 boys in suits. The lady was seated between two other ladies and was apparently emotionless throughout the funeral(the person I know found this quite odd) This is all speculation as the person I know would not have a clue what TM looks like. Just passing on what I was told. The gossipy old lady though is quite involved in the local community of Ipswich. :moo:
Firesnake
06-25-2012, 12:37 AM
So far we have been pretty aware of the movements of the elder BC's and GBC but have heard nothing about OW. What was she doing all day after the kids cross country. Was OW babysitting the 3 kids for ABC - maybe this is what ABC meant when she spoke to the hairdresser saying she had the night off.
And if OW was sleeping in GBC's house as well when ABC was being murdered. (She must have been a better sleeper than GBC if this is the case!)I can't fathom how she could be at GBC's house when ABC was murdered sometime that night and remain so pro BC.
Or was she staying at the EBC and NBC house. And maybe the phone call with face time was for her to answer because it was to the iPad and NBC had gone to bed by this stage I haven't had too much experience letting Facetime wake me up but that is just me.
So would have OW stayed to look after the kids with GBC all nite? Did she stay with GBC and did she go around that roundaboutand park at the bridge in her blue rental car?
If i was the QPS I would be examining the phone of Ms OW. Methinks she protests too much to be too honest in her dealings to date.
Thanks Liadan
This is what I have been trying to get at my last couple of posts. I couldn't seem to put it into the right words. Might have taken another 10 posts LOL.
Opinionsgalore
06-25-2012, 12:38 AM
:waitasec:Would I be right in assuming that if he pleads guilty ,that evidence gathered against him would thereby NOT BE PRESENTED .Making the importance of the face call between GBC and NBC not relevant, thereby releasing NBC from any suspicion in the case ? :waitasec:
At the committal hearing the Prosecution presents their evidence, then the Magistrate decides if there's enough evidence for a trial THEN the accused makes plea.
If the accused pleads guilty before the committal.... Then I don't know, but I wouldn't imagine the police are in the practise of letting accomplices in murder walk away.
MOO
squizzey1
06-25-2012, 12:38 AM
What do you mean? :what: Was he there with a woman? I don't recall hearing this before. Did you see them yourself?
my grandchildrens father said he saw GBC at the show with the girls and without company. not saying TM wasnt there but my informant said he was alone with the children
Mothergoose
06-25-2012, 12:40 AM
I have a theory on this.. Degloving. It could just mean the hands weren't severed as part of the crime. It doesn't mean it didn't happen as part of natural processes post mortem. IMO
From what I have read on degloving...it is the skin and fingernails that come away from underlying tissue. Hence the term 'Degloving'.This can happen from day 10 onward from memory depending on the environment the body was in i.e. water etc.. The bone does not disconnect at the wrist. Only trauma can cause that at that stage of decomposition. I wrote about this quite a few threads ago. If what you are suggesting was correct a huge number of body recoveries would have no hands. IMO:what:
CaseClosed
06-25-2012, 12:42 AM
:waitasec:Would I be right in assuming that if he pleads guilty ,that evidence gathered against him would thereby NOT BE PRESENTED .Making the importance of the face call between GBC and NBC not relevant, thereby releasing NBC from any suspicion in the case ? :waitasec:
I think most times pleas are negotiated before the actual hearing and the Judge is made aware of it. The prosecution must agree to him pleading guilty to a lesser charge (manslaughter) and it could well be that if this is the case, we will never hear any of the evidence.
For the sake of the 3 girls, I think I would prefer him to plead guilty to manslaughter and put an end to it then, rather than have a trial with all the horrible details published everywhere. These details would be available for the girls to read once they are older, but if he pleads guilty to manslaughter, then the girls will live with the believe that he didn't mean to kill her (which would be less damaging to them in the long run). With manslaughter he will still spend over a decade in prison. IMO.
Bobbie Elliott
06-25-2012, 12:43 AM
Exactly.
For him to have got a caterpillar on his chest, I can imagine it could only have happened as he's in heavy undergrowth and one has got down his shirt. These things don't just crawl around everywhere, esp not in the world of the Real Estate office. They're usually on trees or bushes. I wonder when he could possibly have been in heavy undergrowth? :what:
In GBC's case, I think that the hairy caterpillar has been falsely accussed!!
BJsleuth
06-25-2012, 12:43 AM
I don't know if this has already been raised but I saw there were lots of questions about NBC and EBC's home being searched a few days ago. I think this probably would have happened due to the evidence of the phone call between GBC and NBC at 12:30am on the night Alison disappeared only being discovered by QPS just before the bail application hearing.
Same re breaking news and Summer Breeze gets that song in my head all day
At the cricket day the singer said beforehand something to the effect that his highlight was going to be singing Summer Breeze. Not that I'm sleuthing anyone!
Curiousasacat
06-25-2012, 12:45 AM
Whatever!! The lone media supporter.
WI- you might enjoy the Latin in this article???
Australia operates a common law legal system. A fundamental aspect is Ei incumbit probatio qui dicit, non qui negat - the presumption of innocence. The presumption of innocence is a FUNDAMENTAL aspect of our legal system. In other words, people who are charged with crimes, are innocent, until proven guilty. It is up to the DPP to prove beyond a reasonable doubt (and that legal hurdle is onerous) that Gerard Baden-Clay is guilty of murder.
http://kikiandtea.com/2012/06/gerard-baden-clay-innocent-until-proven-guilty/
I think most times pleas are negotiated before the actual hearing and the Judge is made aware of it. The prosecution must agree to him pleading guilty to a lesser charge (manslaughter) and it could well be that if this is the case, we will never hear any of the evidence.
For the sake of the 3 girls, I think I would prefer him to plead guilty to manslaughter and put an end to it then, rather than have a trial with all the horrible details published everywhere. These details would be available for the girls to read once they are older, but if he pleads guilty to manslaughter, then the girls will live with the believe that he didn't mean to kill her (which would be less damaging to them in the long run). With manslaughter he will still spend over a decade in prison. IMO.
Not sure the prosecution would agree, if they have lots of evidence that it was premeditated.
And not sure if G pleading guilty would let any accessories off the hook. It might be worse for them.
squizzey1
06-25-2012, 12:47 AM
I don't know if this has already been raised but I saw there were lots of questions about NBC and EBC's home being searched a few days ago. I think this probably would have happened due to the evidence of the phone call between GBC and NBC at 12:30am on the night Alison disappeared only being discovered by QPS just before the bail application hearing.
that makes a lot of sense now.
Curiousasacat
06-25-2012, 12:47 AM
Re the hospital stay -
Mr Baden-Clay is in hospital after reportedly suffering a breakdown.
http://www.australianmissingpersonsregister.com/Baden-Clay.htm
BJsleuth
06-25-2012, 12:47 AM
From what I have read on degloving...it is the skin and fingernails that come away from underlying tissue. Hence the term 'Degloving'.This can happen from day 10 onward from memory depending on the environment the body was in i.e. water etc.. The bone does not disconnect at the wrist. Only trauma can cause that at that stage of decomposition. I wrote about this quite a few threads ago. If what you are suggesting was correct a huge number of body recoveries would have no hands. IMO:what:
In most cases, yes, it is only the fingers and nails affected but definately never the bones. My suggestion is only that this could have been where that rumour came from.
Sleuthilicious
06-25-2012, 12:50 AM
I think the culprit wanted it to lok like a suicide. She was depressed and went for a walk at night. She hitchhiked a ride out toward the direction of Kholo Creek.....and the person dropped her off. She walked aimlessly around, until she found this bridge and jumped. Only flaw, some say the height on the bridge isnt high enough to kill oneself.
Off topic....Those interested in Darcey Freeman....We drove over the bridge she was thrown off. It was the first time since she was murdered by her father....and it used to feel so wonderful going over that bridge....Both hubby and I agreed, it's just no fun anymore......We loved looking at the industrial aspect of Melbourne (I know weird). But we live in a beautiful rainforest like setting east of Melbourne and its nice to see the opposite sometimes. They have also put really high guard rails up so no-one can do this again and noone can kill themselves.....Its hard not to think of her as you go over :(
Off topic, we're not far off leaving our gorgeous tropical treehouse and moving to a rainforest area, east of Melbourne!!!
Mothergoose
06-25-2012, 12:51 AM
I think most times pleas are negotiated before the actual hearing and the Judge is made aware of it. The prosecution must agree to him pleading guilty to a lesser charge (manslaughter) and it could well be that if this is the case, we will never hear any of the evidence.
For the sake of the 3 girls, I think I would prefer him to plead guilty to manslaughter and put an end to it then, rather than have a trial with all the horrible details published everywhere. These details would be available for the girls to read once they are older, but if he pleads guilty to manslaughter, then the girls will live with the believe that he didn't mean to kill her (which would be less damaging to them in the long run). With manslaughter he will still spend over a decade in prison. IMO.
I thought that was the case CC ...thanks. If the man has the slightest shred of conscience or decency I would think he would plead guilty before the committal hearing. I don't believe NBC was allegedly a willing participant.GBC
should fess up and spare further grief to everyone allegedly sucked in by him in this horrendous crime. IMO :maddening:
Isabellnecessary
06-25-2012, 12:52 AM
I thought that was the case CC ...thanks. If the man has the slightest shred of conscience or decency I would think he would plead guilty before the committal hearing. I don't believe NBC was allegedly a willing participant.GBC
should fess up and spare further grief to everyone allegedly sucked in by him in this horrendous crime. IMO :maddening:
He has no conscience if he's a narcissist. Right now, everything he may have done will be justified actions in his own head. It can never be his fault.
CaseClosed
06-25-2012, 12:54 AM
Not sure the prosecution would agree, if they have lots of evidence that it was premeditated.
And not sure if G pleading guilty would let any accessories off the hook. It might be worse for them.
Agree, however the prosecution has already acknowledged that the evidence is circumstantial and they also know they are going against a top Barrister. But, at this stage anything can happen at that hearing.
Curiousasacat
06-25-2012, 12:56 AM
Just reposting something I posted a long time ago.
To me this seems like bad blood with perhaps an ex business partner?
The business partner now works for a competing real estate agency.
"In reality, however, such pressure has the opposite effect on some agents, reducing them to tactics and behaviour that compromise not only their own integrity but the integrity of the industry as a whole. If their behaviour didn’t affect me and the community in which I live and work, then I would have nothing to say about this. But it does directly affect me and it directly affects you. No names or pack drills here – I seek not to expose the offender but the practice, the practice being to erect For Sale signs on properties prior to any contract being signed. It is first and foremost illegal. It is secondly unethical. And it is finally reprehensible." Article continues......
http://liveweb.archive.org/http://ex...t-cricket.html
BJsleuth
06-25-2012, 12:58 AM
I don't know about in QLD but here in a recent sentencing hearing where the accused plead guilty to murder, the evidence was presented to the court at that time for the purposes of demonstrating the heinous nature of the crime.
Mothergoose
06-25-2012, 12:59 AM
At the committal hearing the Prosecution presents their evidence, then the Magistrate decides if there's enough evidence for a trial THEN the accused makes plea.
If the accused pleads guilty before the committal.... Then I don't know, but I wouldn't imagine the police are in the practise of letting accomplices in murder walk away.
MOO
Sorry I wasn't clear enough. I meant if he decided to plead guilty prior to the commital hearing. The question has been answered now so thanks.:rocker:
Crime and punishment
06-25-2012, 12:59 AM
I am so hoping that Mr. Danny Boyle is a total ace prosecutor. And it is interesting that Davis didn't get his supression wish for their case. I am wondering what information the prosecution will present and how they will run their case. I wonder if the defense guys are trying to get GBC to plead guilty??????
I was just doing some detective work about the names on the list that was published from the other site. And noticed that the respondents were previous and perhaps work colleagues that would have probably had to give character representations for GBC - from memory I think you need to get people to write a spiel about how long you have known them and that they are good person etc.
These are listed below from what I can come up friends of GBC from FB and also old colleagues from the real estate cliche. The one in green I couldn't find any info on. The blue ones are respondents and would anyone have any idea what they would be responding to? (Maybe I have go this the wrong way round the respondent and applicant thing.)
8 21/06/2012 Affidavit PA NEGEREVICH Respondent
9 21/06/2012 Affidavit PJ RODDICK Respondent
10 21/06/2012 Affidavit PB CRANNA Applicant
11 21/06/2012 Affidavit TE CRANNA Applicant
12 21/06/2012 Affidavit IL THOMAS Applicant
13 21/06/2012 Affidavit P NEGEREVICH Respondent
The one you can't find might be Dr Ifor Thomas, a well respected and published doctor who is an Elder of the Baptist church Ashgrove. The very church GBC took his girls to while ABC was still missing. I Remember seeing pics of the girls coming out with balloons from Sunday School (pics were in MSM at the time).
DunnoZo
06-25-2012, 01:00 AM
What do you mean? :what: Was he there with a woman? I don't recall hearing this before. Did you see them yourself?
I saw the whole kit & kaboodle one night, I think it was (Sat) @ the Brookfield Show, I coincidentally sat a few rows in front of the Dickies,in the stands who had the girls coming & going. Soon after, GBC came and sat quite a distance away, but enough to see the glare in Mrs. D's eye watching him. Mr. D just looked like he was in another sad sad world. GBC sat with a dark haired woman, and his elder daughter sat on his lap for a long time, looking quite comfortable in the situation. I have no idea who it was,it could have been his great aunt or the horse trainer for all I know. It was the day before TM 'came out", but I'm sure there are others who would have seen them. The only contact w/ the Dickies would have been for the sake of juggling the girls.
I by no means want to entice discussion up about the girls, and feel children deserve more credit than most people generally give them, and these 3 will know the real deal. all IMO by the way,
possumheart
06-25-2012, 01:00 AM
Agree, however the prosecution has already acknowledged that the evidence is circumstantial and they also know they are going against a top Barrister. But, at this stage anything can happen at that hearing.
Well the once the committal is over, they are looking at jury driven judgement. So any evidence that can be held back from a jury will be what the hired help will be trying to identify at committal. This is where the defense earn their bucks.
CaseClosed
06-25-2012, 01:03 AM
Whatever!! The lone media supporter.
WI- you might enjoy the Latin in this article???
Australia operates a common law legal system. A fundamental aspect is Ei incumbit probatio qui dicit, non qui negat - the presumption of innocence. The presumption of innocence is a FUNDAMENTAL aspect of our legal system. In other words, people who are charged with crimes, are innocent, until proven guilty. It is up to the DPP to prove beyond a reasonable doubt (and that legal hurdle is onerous) that Gerard Baden-Clay is guilty of murder.
http://kikiandtea.com/2012/06/gerard-baden-clay-innocent-until-proven-guilty/
Yeah, this was written the day after the arrest. I wonder what the comments would be now after the info released at the bail hearing.
possumheart
06-25-2012, 01:03 AM
Well the once the committal is over, they are looking at jury driven judgement. So any evidence that can be held back from a jury will be what the hired help will be trying to identify at committal. This is where the defense earn their bucks.
Of course to will want Hawkins to validate this,but I have lived it
willough
06-25-2012, 01:04 AM
Off topic, we're not far off leaving our gorgeous tropical treehouse and moving to a rainforest area, east of Melbourne!!!
Wanna swap?....giggles. I do like the sound of a tropical treehouse.
I dont think he will plead guilty....They seem to be absolutely adamant that he is innocent (olivia email etc). Imagine if he did plead guilty after all the money they were trying to juice out of friends and family.
DunnoZo
06-25-2012, 01:04 AM
my grandchildrens father said he saw GBC at the show with the girls and without company. not saying TM wasnt there but my informant said he was alone with the children
hi squizz, welcome back! when I saw him in the evening,, he looked as though he had just arrived (back). looked around, spotted someone, then went to sit with her. a few min. later the eldest girl joined them.
Mothergoose
06-25-2012, 01:06 AM
In most cases, yes, it is only the fingers and nails affected but definately never the bones. My suggestion is only that this could have been where that rumour came from.
I think the difference between a hand with no skin and a missing hand is quite dramatic.Degloving is a natural process of decomposition (hand still visible and intact) apart from skin and nails. A detached had is definitely not natural at this stage decomposition. Animal interference is of course another aspect.I think a lot of rumors start with vivid imaginations IMO
Whatever!! The lone media supporter.
WI- you might enjoy the Latin in this article???
Australia operates a common law legal system. A fundamental aspect is Ei incumbit probatio qui dicit, non qui negat - the presumption of innocence. The presumption of innocence is a FUNDAMENTAL aspect of our legal system. In other words, people who are charged with crimes, are innocent, until proven guilty. It is up to the DPP to prove beyond a reasonable doubt (and that legal hurdle is onerous) that Gerard Baden-Clay is guilty of murder.
http://kikiandtea.com/2012/06/gerard-baden-clay-innocent-until-proven-guilty/
After reading yesterdays post on there Im tempted to reply to it :) IMO
BreakingNews
06-25-2012, 01:13 AM
OT, Breaking News, FYI every time I see a post from you and see "Breaking News" it makes my heart race!
I'm sure the journal would be an interesting find. I wonder if someone else may have drawn the map? either allison, or one of the girls? I often wonder what kind of relationship A & the girls had, especially the elder, were they very close/honest/open? or not? Maybe the girls were close w/TM? If it was TM that GBC was with @ the Brooky show, the girls looked very comfortable with her. Dunno if it was indeed her though... MOOO
Gee, I hope you don't have a heart condition.
There are some great creative names here. I luv them all. Cracks me up: itsthevibe, itchybum, Unfolding Truth, Rational, CaseClosed, Sheerluck Holmes, CIB, Thinking, Keentoknow, Curiousasacat, Sleuthilicious but my all time favourite has to be 'Youre Nicked' as that is what most of us wanted to hear in this case.
itsthevibe
06-25-2012, 01:32 AM
Way back there was a post by a local? saying they were driving home late at night past the BC's house and happened to look up their driveway and saw 2 people putting something into the back of a car...Did this turn out to be completely a rumour/gossip ?...
I am sure it did say there were 2 people loading something into a car, and I'm sure it mentioned the time of night. I have thought about this too. Now that we have an arrest and a lot more information to go on, I think it would be interesting to try to piece together the known facts and times, along with perhaps some of the unverified rumours to see if they fit in as possibilities. (I mean the more credible ones, which I realise is subjective, but there are some that seem more reliable and that may have been referred to twice, or that could now fit into the times quite well.)
We now have times that the phone was used to contact NBC, plus going on and off the charger. So I wondered about the times reported regarding the above rumour, and also the rumour about NBC being seen at the bus stop at the roundabout. Just wondered if the times were pieced together that it would all fit in (or not).
itsthevibe
06-25-2012, 01:39 AM
Are you perhaps allowed to say it's just a rumour ie don't present it as fact, and then we can decide for ourselves? Does anyone know?
I thought we were as long as we only referred to it as a rumour every time it was mentioned. Then it can also be added to the rumour list that can be posted and updated from time to time. I noticed when that rumour list was created one of the Mods seemed to remark about it, and also thanked the post when the first list was posted.
Curiousasacat
06-25-2012, 01:43 AM
Yeah, this was written the day after the arrest. I wonder what the comments would be now after the info released at the bail hearing.
She/He is still twittering most every day proclaiming Innocence until proven otherwise. She/He posts comments on the Facebook page too. May be one of the only people in Brisbane doing so.
BJsleuth
06-25-2012, 01:45 AM
I think the difference between a hand with no skin and a missing hand is quite dramatic.Degloving is a natural process of decomposition (hand still visible and intact) apart from skin and nails. A detached had is definitely not natural at this stage decomposition. Animal interference is of course another aspect.I think a lot of rumors start with vivid imaginations IMO
Very true Mothergoose.
I thought that was the case CC ...thanks. If the man has the slightest shred of conscience or decency I would think he would plead guilty before the committal hearing. I don't believe NBC was allegedly a willing participant.GBC
should fess up and spare further grief to everyone allegedly sucked in by him in this horrendous crime. IMO :maddening:
Mothergoose.. I know we don't always see eye to eye, but before you think 'crap, CJ again..'
I couldn't agree, agree agree with you more...
Spotted Reptile
06-25-2012, 01:52 AM
Off topic, we're not far off leaving our gorgeous tropical treehouse and moving to a rainforest area, east of Melbourne!!!
Wow, that's the opposite of what most Victorians do! Welcome to the dark side, Sleuthilicious . . . . :seeya:
Trooper
06-25-2012, 01:56 AM
:waitasec:Would I be right in assuming that if he pleads guilty ,that evidence gathered against him would thereby NOT BE PRESENTED .Making the importance of the face call between GBC and NBC not relevant, thereby releasing NBC from any suspicion in the case ? :waitasec:
bit late with input.. apologies.
If the defendant pleads guilty, the trial moves to its sentencing stage.
The judge then decides the sentence..
to justify the sentence, which the judge must do, even if its mandatory sentence for that particular crime, the judge reads out the body of the crime.
This includes, the police officers report, the timeline in its entirety of the crime, the particulars of it, the people involved in it, and the measure of their involvement, the statements if any of the defendant, the medical officers report, the coroners report, the admission of guilt by the defendant, and how that matches the charges laid against him. Then the victims statements. The sentence will be stated, and any discounts for pleading guilty will be deducted from the overall amount.
if he pleads not guilty, and is subsequently found to be guilty. for starters, no discount.. then all of the above, with the inclusion of witness statements, and which witness statement carries the most weight, and which dont, the judge is not averse to calling someone a brass faced liar, the weighing up of which witnesses the jury discarded, and which they didnt, and then the overall total of weighted evidence.. then the sentencing, and usually, but not always, a bit of the judges input from his/her point of view.
All this is avaliable to every citizen of AU.. it is not private.. Crime is public, Law is public, this is what you pay for. You can access the entire sentencing on the web with no charge.
A transcript of the trial does cost money. Quite a lot, sometimes.. it takes a bit longer to get, as it is checked thoroughly for errors, notarised as a true and authorised transcript, etc.. long post, a bugger to read. but thats how it is sometimes.
BJsleuth
06-25-2012, 02:02 AM
I wonder whether this means that Allison was leaving him....as in already told him, "That's it Gerard" and he had to do the AWFUL deed that night (like someone said earlier in the piece, it was intended to be done a month later, but had to be bought forward).
To me it seems that Olivia may have been at the cross country to support Gerard, incase he saw Allison and a blow up ensued. Instead Alison stayed away and came at the end to pick them up.
I was thinking along the same lines, particularly if GBC had told ABC that MT would be at the conference as it's been alleged MT asked him to. Wouldn't ABC have thought that odd that he was still in touch with MT if she believed the affair had ended in 2011?
Timmy
06-25-2012, 02:03 AM
Channel 10 news update- Fresh line of inquiry in Baden-Clay case.
Trooper
06-25-2012, 02:06 AM
any appeals at a later stage the convicted person may make, and this is usual, to be prepared for, are also public. that is, you can access the information in regard to what grounds, or new evidence , whatever, the prisoner may make, and when it comes before the court, the conclusions of the judge, and/or judges are public viewing.
At an Appeal.. the crime itself is outlined all over again, and the grounds for an Appeal are adjudicated, ..... a lot of Appeals rest mostly on where the judge erred in summing up the evidence, or instructions to the jurors.. this is common, but it is uncommon for it to be found as new grounds for a new trial.. new evidence, as such, is often found as grounds for a new trial. I am not speaking of swift and speedy stuff here.. I am talking years.
Seeking
06-25-2012, 02:08 AM
Channel 10 news update- Fresh line of inquiry in Baden-Clay case.
Timmy or someone, when the update comes through can you please tell us what it contains or send us a link. As I don't live in QLD I rely on Websleuths links for updates. We get some news down about it but not all. Thanks.
CaseClosed
06-25-2012, 02:10 AM
She/He is still twittering most every day proclaiming Innocence until proven otherwise. She/He posts comments on the Facebook page too. May be one of the only people in Brisbane doing so.
:floorlaugh:
Timmy
06-25-2012, 02:11 AM
Timmy or someone, when the update comes through can you please tell us what it contains or send us a link. As I don't live in QLD I rely on Websleuths links for updates. We get some news down about it but not all. Thanks.
Yep. Am assuming it will be on 5 o'clock news.
Trooper
06-25-2012, 02:11 AM
what I was saying in the long version is that.. ( short version) . whatever happened to Allison, in the event that Gerard is tried, and convicted will be public knowledge. right down to what she ate for dinner that night, the months leading up to her death and the interval between her death and a person being charged with her murder.
Every single thing.
Curiousasacat
06-25-2012, 02:12 AM
The latest from Mr. Tully.
He has added the news articles.
http://paulgtully.blogspot.com.au/
Rational
06-25-2012, 02:14 AM
I think in one of the news reports (possibly one of the ones where he didn't get bail) i seen something mentioned about if this goes to trial Does anyone know what happens if it doesn't go to trial?? I'm trying to find the link but not having much success
Sorry to say Angel but it will go to trial. A committal hearing is just so the defence and prosecution can outline their respective cases to the judge and say how much time they will need to prepare. The judge will than look in his diary (or rather his assistant will) and set aside 2 or 3 or more weeks depending on how much evidence either side has. This is no longer about if it will go to trial or not. I saw the post you mentioned but it was incorrect. He will be inside in the big house until his trial. He can attend the committal hearing, so he can instruct his LE. His trial will be in 2-3 years time.
willough
06-25-2012, 02:17 AM
I was thinking along the same lines, particularly if GBC had told ABC that MT would be at the conference as it's been alleged MT asked him to. Wouldn't ABC have thought that odd that he was still in touch with MT if she believed the affair had ended in 2011?
Yep, thanks BJ...It seems things were barreling down at a massive speed since he possibly told her......and had he not done this now, there may not be a chance again. The next day it seemed that Allison was going to be bringing items to Kerry-Anne's. It's always been open to conjecture what was being bought there.....Items for the girls, items for her.....Items for both her and the girls?
He was losing his opportunities of being around her, alone. It had to be done and it had to be done then. She wasnt taking his crap anymore and moving on. One flaw for her, dear love....Was that "He couldn't afford to divorce her" :(
JMO
BreakingNews
06-25-2012, 02:20 AM
Timmy or someone, when the update comes through can you please tell us what it contains or send us a link. As I don't live in QLD I rely on Websleuths links for updates. We get some news down about it but not all. Thanks.
Update probably on 5pm Channel 10 news. Or Channel 9 at 4.30pm. I'll watch and let you know.
CaseClosed
06-25-2012, 02:20 AM
Timmy or someone, when the update comes through can you please tell us what it contains or send us a link. As I don't live in QLD I rely on Websleuths links for updates. We get some news down about it but not all. Thanks.
I will watch the 4:30 pm short Nine News and see if anything is said and report back.
Mothergoose
06-25-2012, 02:21 AM
bit late with input.. apologies.
If the defendant pleads guilty, the trial moves to its sentencing stage.
The judge then decides the sentence..
to justify the sentence, which the judge must do, even if its mandatory sentence for that particular crime, the judge reads out the body of the crime.
This includes, the police officers report, the timeline in its entirety of the crime, the particulars of it, the people involved in it, and the measure of their involvement, the statements if any of the defendant, the medical officers report, the coroners report, the admission of guilt by the defendant, and how that matches the charges laid against him. Then the victims statements. The sentence will be stated, and any discounts for pleading guilty will be deducted from the overall amount.
if he pleads not guilty, and is subsequently found to be guilty. for starters, no discount.. then all of the above, with the inclusion of witness statements, and which witness statement carries the most weight, and which dont, the judge is not averse to calling someone a brass faced liar, the weighing up of which witnesses the jury discarded, and which they didnt, and then the overall total of weighted evidence.. then the sentencing, and usually, but not always, a bit of the judges input from his/her point of view.
All this is avaliable to every citizen of AU.. it is not private.. Crime is public, Law is public, this is what you pay for. You can access the entire sentencing on the web with no charge.
A transcript of the trial does cost money. Quite a lot, sometimes.. it takes a bit longer to get, as it is checked thoroughly for errors, notarised as a true and authorised transcript, etc.. long post, a bugger to read. but thats how it is sometimes.
Very informative......thank you Trooper :rocker:
This has bugged me since I saw OW say she spoke to Allison the night before she went missing which I presumed to be the Wednesday night..then I know it could be rumour but I believed the poster at the time that OW was at the cross country that Thursday. Why didn't she say she had seen Allison the day she went missing, I'm under the impression that Allison also attended the cross country. Just something not right.
If OW was in Brisbane where would she have been staying??
WHO stayed with the girls while GBC was apparently at Kholo Creek. I can not imagine that they were left alone and I read not sure if true that OW took girls to school that Friday morning... Arghhh
All IMO
Dont get me started!!!!!! :banghead::banghead::banghead:
willough
06-25-2012, 02:22 AM
Please do CC (anyone), if you can......The case still props up on the news sometimes, but not always now, down here in Melbourne.....Thanxabunch xx
CaseClosed
06-25-2012, 02:22 AM
Sorry to say Angel but it will go to trial. A committal hearing is just so the defence and prosecution can outline their respective cases to the judge and say how much time they will need to prepare. The judge will than look in his diary (or rather his assistant will) and set aside 2 or 3 or more weeks depending on how much evidence either side has. This is no longer about if it will go to trial or not. I saw the post you mentioned but it was incorrect. He will be inside in the big house until his trial. He can attend the committal hearing, so he can instruct his LE. His trial will be in 2-3 years time.
... unless he pleads guilty, then only a sentencing hearing and no trial.
I have also wondered if TM was at the funeral? I'm sure this has been discussed and I can't recall, I'm sorry. Greg could probably answer this from memory?
I did look for her but couldn't see her, so many faces in the crowd.
Trooper
06-25-2012, 02:27 AM
surely to god she wouldnt go to the funeral!!..
*
So far we have been pretty aware of the movements of the elder BC's and GBC but have heard nothing about OW. What was she doing all day after the kids cross country. Was OW babysitting the 3 kids for ABC - maybe this is what ABC meant when she spoke to the hairdresser saying she had the night off.
And if OW was sleeping in GBC's house as well when ABC was being murdered. (She must have been a better sleeper than GBC if this is the case!)I can't fathom how she could be at GBC's house when ABC was murdered sometime that night and remain so pro BC.
Or was she staying at the EBC and NBC house. And maybe the phone call with face time was for her to answer because it was to the iPad and NBC had gone to bed by this stage I haven't had too much experience letting Facetime wake me up but that is just me.
So would have OW stayed to look after the kids with GBC all nite? Did she stay with GBC and did she go around that roundaboutand park at the bridge in her blue rental car?
If i was the QPS I would be examining the phone of Ms OW. Methinks she protests too much to be too honest in her dealings to date.
This is exactly what I think aswell liadan thanks
angel1
06-25-2012, 02:27 AM
Channel 10 news update- Fresh line of inquiry in Baden-Clay case.
It will be interesting to see what it's about.
willough
06-25-2012, 02:30 AM
I did look for her but couldn't see her, so many faces in the crowd.
I find funerals so surreal. Looking at peoples faces, their emotions make them seem so magnified. Like it etches in you. It would have been so hard to know who to look for. Seeing different key players.....The perp, the victims, the BCs, the friends......I dont even think i'd know where to look.
I think i'd find it hard not to stare, then i'd realize i'm staring and would try to look away.....a funeral like this, shocking.
Some have said, that some people that went to the funeral were kind of rubber neckers, I guess. To me, it takes a strong person to go to such a funeral and take in such raw emotion. Even of those one doesn't know....disconcerting in the least.
EllaN
06-25-2012, 02:33 AM
A lot of people on here have been wondering why GBC's facebook friends haven't "unfriended " him. I think a LOT of these people are real estate agents or work in the industry. I also believe that some of these people are from SA. I know one of GBC's facebook friends and this person is from SA. Maybe they want to support him because they are from the same country and have similar backgrounds, which is fair enough.
willough
06-25-2012, 02:33 AM
surely to god she wouldnt go to the funeral!!..
*
The mind boggles doesnt. Surely she wouldnt even in the least be welcome there.
willough
06-25-2012, 02:34 AM
A lot of people on here have been wondering why GBC's facebook friends haven't "unfriended " him. I think a LOT of these people are real estate agents or work in the industry. I also believe that some of these people are from SA. I know one of GBC's facebook friends and this person is from SA. Maybe they want to support him because they are from the same country and have similar backgrounds, which is fair enough I suppose.
I believe many are most curious about the happenings, that they dont want to unfriend him, just in case he farts on facebook......and they saw him do it.
I don't believe his sister knew anything, she looked far too shocked following the bail hearing and has said nothing since, maybe she has gone home? Locals have also said on here? that she was at the cross country I believe, the day before.
EllaN
06-25-2012, 02:37 AM
I believe many are most curious about the happenings, that they dont want to unfriend him, just in case he farts on facebook......and they saw him do it.
Yeah I know LOL:floorlaugh:
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