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believe09
07-12-2012, 11:57 AM
Admin gave me the go ahead to start a separate thread so that posters can help one another with pieces of the report, MSM articles and twitter feeds etc as everything is dissected.

As in the Grand Jury Indictment and the trial, there is graphic information contained within the report.


Freeh Special Investigative Counsel Report-CNN link (http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnn/2012/images/07/12/freeh.report.pdf?hpt=hp_c1)


Bring over posts you would like included on this thread.

:banghead:

believe09
07-12-2012, 12:05 PM
I have read this twice now. All I can say is that emeritus award and the lump sum payment approved by Spanier (if I have that detail correct) makes me really really really wonder what Spanier actually knew and why JS was treated so handsomely. To be blunt.

believe09
07-12-2012, 12:08 PM
Some posts from the other thread-
Report: Paterno, other leaders 'repeatedly concealed' facts about Sandusky sex abuse

http://openchannel.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/07/12/12699159-report-finds-penn-state-president-paterno-concealed-facts-about-sandusky-sex-abuse?lite


Penn State football coach Joe Paterno and other university leaders "repeatedly concealed critical facts" relating to assistant football coach Jerry Sandusky’s child sex abuse from authorities, according to Louis Freeh, the former FBI director who conducted an investigation for the university in the Sandusky scandal.

Freeh also found that "although concern to treat the child abuser humanely was expressly stated, no such sentiments were ever expressed" by university officials, including Paterno and the university president, for Sandusky’s victims. The report says that five boys were assaulted by Sandusky on university property after officials knew about a 1998 criminal investigation.

The report says the main cause of the university's failure was a desire to avoid bad publicity. Also contributing:
•A striking lack of empathy for child abuse victims.
•Lack of oversight by the board of trustees.
•"A president who discouraged discussion and dissent."
•Ignorance of child abuse issues and laws.
•A football program that had opted out of university programs and training on reporting requirements.
•"A culture of reverence for the football program that is ingrained at all levels of the campus community."

Freeh's findings may affect the reputation of legendary coach Paterno, who died soon after the Sandusky allegations became public, as well as the university's standing with the National Collegiate Athletic Association, which so far has not announced any punishments of Penn State. The NCAA said Thursday it is studying the report.

Follows with quotes from Freeh's reports and past quotes of the principals....IMO they must charge Spanier now....

Janitors Didn’t Report Jerry Sandusky’s 2000 Rape Incident Because They Feared Joe Paterno (http://deadspin.com/5925417/janitors-didnt-report-jerry-sanduskys-2000-rape-incident-because-they-feared-joe-paterno-would-fire-them) (Deadspin)

Some pretty damning quotes on Cynthia Baldwin, Penn State counsel in 2010, regarding her reaction to initial suggestion of an independent investigation:

Spanier and Baldwin opposed in independent investigation of the Sandusky issue, with Baldwin stating the "if we do this we will never get rid of the [outside investigative] group in some shape or form. The Board will then think that they should have such a group." Spanier agreed.

believe09
07-12-2012, 12:14 PM
Freeh's Press Conference Remarks:

LINK (http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnn/2012/images/07/12/freeh.statement.pdf?hpt=hp_t1)


Our most saddening and sobering finding is the total disregard for the safety and welfare of Sandusky’s child victims by the most senior leaders at Penn State. The most powerful men at Penn State failed to take any steps for 14 years to protect the children who Sandusky victimized. Messrs. Spanier, Schultz, Paterno and Curley never demonstrated, through actions or words, any concern for the safety and well-being of Sandusky’s victims until after Sandusky’s arrest.

wfgodot
07-12-2012, 12:15 PM
TVs at PSU student center suddenly switched to public access (http://www.philly.com/philly/news/breaking/20120712_TVs_at_PSU_student_center_suddenly_switch _to_public_access.html?c=r) (philly.com)
The handful of students and alumni that gathered in Penn State's student center this morning to watch the release of the Freeh report live were stunned when the channel suddenly switched.
---
But, just as an anchor was ready to speak about the report, the television screens suddenly went blank. They then turned to a public access channel featuring a reporter from The Morning Call newspaper in Allentown about the state budget.
---
the rest at link above

(smh)

believe09
07-12-2012, 12:16 PM
TVs at PSU student center suddenly switched to public access (http://www.philly.com/philly/news/breaking/20120712_TVs_at_PSU_student_center_suddenly_switch _to_public_access.html?c=r) (philly.com)

the rest at link above

(smh)

You have GOT to be kidding me.

costalpilot
07-12-2012, 12:21 PM
PATERNO FAMILY REACTS TO REPORT...AFTER REPORT RESPONSE:

post freeh report response from PATERNO family...note that at the end they try to dilute Joes responsibility by saying :"everyone" shares in the responsibility...well i've heard the report summarzied and it doesnt point to"everyones" responsibility, but to the responsibility of four men---joe paterno is one of those men...the Paterno family remains in obscuration mode, no matter what.


http://www.sbnation.com/ncaa-football/2012/7/12/3154884/joe-paterno-freeh-report-family-statement

The Paterno family released the following statement with regard to the release of Louis Freeh's report:

We are in the process of reviewing the Freeh report and will need some time before we can comment in depth on its findings and conclusions. From the moment this crisis broke, Joe Paterno supported a comprehensive, fair investigation. He always believed, as we do, that the full truth should be uncovered.

From what we have been able to ****** at this time, it appears that after reviewing 3 million documents and conducting more than 400 interviews, the underlying facts as summarized in the report are almost entirely consistent with what we understood them to be. The 1998 incident was reported to law enforcement and investigated. Joe Paterno reported what he was told about the 2001 incident to Penn State authorities and he believed it would be fully investigated. The investigation also confirmed that Sandusky's retirement in 1999 was unrelated to these events.

One great risk in this situation is a replaying of events from the last 15 years or so in a way that makes it look obvious what everyone must have known and should have done. The idea that any sane, responsible adult would knowingly cover up for a child predator is impossible to accept. The far more realistic conclusion is that many people didn't fully understand what was happening and underestimated or misinterpreted events. Sandusky was a great deceiver. He fooled everyone - law enforcement, his family, coaches, players, neighbors, University officials, and everyone at Second Mile.

Joe Paterno wasn't perfect. He made mistakes and he regretted them. He is still the only leader to step forward and say that with the benefit of hindsight he wished he had done more. To think, however, that he would have protected Jerry Sandusky to avoid bad publicity is simply not realistic. If Joe Paterno had understood what Sandusky was, a fear of bad publicity would not have factored into his actions.

We appreciate the effort that was put into this investigation. The issue we have with some of the conclusions is that they represent a judgment on motives and intentions and we think this is impossible. We have said from the beginning that Joe Paterno did not know Jerry Sandusky was a child predator. Moreover, Joe Paterno never interfered with any investigation. He immediately and accurately reported the incident he was told about in 2001.

It can be argued that Joe Paterno should have gone further. He should have pushed his superiors to see that they were doing their jobs. We accept this criticism. At the same time, Joe Paterno and everyone else knew that Sandusky had been repeatedly investigated by authorities who approved his multiple adoptions and foster children. Joe Paterno mistakenly believed that investigators, law enforcement officials, University leaders and others would properly and fully investigate any issue and proceed as the facts dictated.

This didn't happen and everyone shares the responsibility

believe09
07-12-2012, 12:21 PM
Again from Freeh's press conference.


Based on the evidence, the only known, intervening factor between the decision made on February 25, 2001 by Messrs. Spanier, Curley and Schulz to report the incident to the Department of Public Welfare, and then agreeing not to do so on February 27th, was Mr. Paterno’s February 26th conversation with Mr. Curley.

We never had the opportunity to talk with Mr. Paterno, but he did say what he told McQueary on February 10, 2011 when McQueary reported what he saw Sandusky doing in the shower the night before: “You did what you had to do. It is my job now to figure out what we want to do.” Why would anyone have to figure out what had to be done in these circumstances? We also know that he delayed reporting Sandusky’s sexual conduct because Mr. Paterno did not “want to interfere” with people’s weekend.
To his credit, Mr. Paterno stated on November 9, 2011, “With the benefit of hindsight, I wish I had done more.”

believe09
07-12-2012, 12:24 PM
PATERNO FAMILY REACTS TO REPORT...AFTER REPORT RESPONSE:

(snip)

It can be argued that Joe Paterno should have gone further. He should have pushed his superiors to see that they were doing their jobs. We accept this criticism. At the same time, Joe Paterno and everyone else knew that Sandusky had been repeatedly investigated by authorities who approved his multiple adoptions and foster children. Joe Paterno mistakenly believed that investigators, law enforcement officials, University leaders and others would properly and fully investigate any issue and proceed as the facts dictated.

This didn't happen and everyone shares the responsibility

That was pretty weak. Everyone dropped the ball so why judge JoPa harshly for dropping the ball too???

wfgodot
07-12-2012, 12:29 PM
Deadspin coverage of the Freeh report thus far:

Everything You Need To Know About Today’s Damning Report On Penn State

• Joe Paterno Gave Jerry Sandusky The Option To Keep Coaching "As Long As He Was The Coach" (http://deadspin.com/5925401/joe-paterno-gave-jerry-sandusky-the-option-to-keep-coaching-as-long-as-he-was-the-coach)
• Janitors Didn't Report Jerry Sandusky's 2000 Rape Incident Because They Feared Joe Paterno Would Fire Them (http://deadspin.com/5925417/)
• In '98, Buying $400 Of Clothes For A Player Got You Banned. Being Investigated For Child Sexual Assault Didn't. (http://deadspin.com/5925403/in-1998-buying-400-worth-of-clothes-for-a-player-got-you-banned-from-penn-state-being-investigated-for-sexual-assault-did-not)
• The Second Mile Took No Action After Being Informed Of Sandusky's 2001 Shower Incident (http://deadspin.com/5925419/the-second-mile-took-no-action-after-being-informed-of-sanduskys-2001-shower-incident)

believe09
07-12-2012, 12:29 PM
Sanduskyvictims@websleuths.com

Please send in letters of support for the brave men who came forward for the first trial, please send along any information regarding other victims, or if you are a victim. Ms Balfour has contact information for the Attorney General's office, private attorneys, counselors set up to speak with victims....

Please-you are not alone.

costalpilot
07-12-2012, 12:34 PM
That was pretty weak. Everyone dropped the ball so why judge JoPa harshly for dropping the ball too???

Presumably the family totally agrees with joes reasoning that he shouldnt "interfere' with anyones ""weekend" whe n\he heard about sandusky raping a child in the penn state showers..oh, sorry, myabe not raping..maybe just abusing...maybe just inappopriate touching...maybe just showing the boy how to soap up his back...who knows, we werent there.



the paternos are in the process of destroying whatever is left of joes name as they continue to defend the indefensible. they do not see this.

interesting. they are deluded.

Mama-cita
07-12-2012, 12:44 PM
Presumably the family totally agrees with joes reasoning that he shouldnt "interfere' with anyones ""weekend" whe n\he heard about sandusky raping a child in the penn state showers..oh, sorry, myabe not raping..maybe just abusing...maybe just inappopriate touching...maybe just showing the boy how to soap up his back...who knows, we werent there.



the paternos are in the process of destroying whatever is left of joes name as they continue to defend the indefensible. they do not see this.

interesting. they are deluded.

They are way past deluded. Shame on them. They should just shut up now

BeginnersLuck
07-12-2012, 12:47 PM
TVs at PSU student center suddenly switched to public access (http://www.philly.com/philly/news/breaking/20120712_TVs_at_PSU_student_center_suddenly_switch _to_public_access.html?c=r) (philly.com)

the rest at link above

(smh)

IMO - bad, bad move on their part

This just comes across as another attempt to hide the truth. What a horrible move to make when your trying to regain credibility.

believe09
07-12-2012, 12:48 PM
JoPa's name is gone. I think whether or not his legacy is gone...well it will be up to them and how they continue to handle this.

LNL
07-12-2012, 12:53 PM
I've lost track of the number of times I've said "wow" or "OMG" while reading this report.

The callousness and disregard for these kids is astonishing.

Makes you want to cry.

Jayarre
07-12-2012, 01:03 PM
Paterno's family has to adjust their thinking....Joe is not a victim.....the victims are young boys that suffered sexual abuse and rape while powerful respected men covered these crimes to protect their legacy .
SICK

dog.gone.cute
07-12-2012, 01:07 PM
snipped from : http://openchannel.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/07/12/12699159-report-finds-penn-state-president-paterno-concealed-facts-about-sandusky-sex-abuse?lite

Freeh's team of investigators found:

"The most saddening finding by the Special Investigative Counsel is the total and consistent disregard by the most senior leaders at Penn State for the safety and welfare of Sandusky's child victims. As the Grand Jury similarly noted in its presentment, there was no "attempt to investigate, to identify Victim 2, or to protect that child or any others from similar conduct except as related to preventing its re-occurrence on University property.

"Four of the most powerful people at The Pennsylvania State University -- President Graham B. Spanier, Senior Vice President-Finance and Business Gary C. Schultz, Athletic Director Timothy M. Curley and Head Football Coach Joseph V. Paterno -- failed to protect against a child predator harming children for over a decade. These men concealed Sandusky's activities from the Board of Trustees, the University community and authorities. They exhibited a striking lack of empathy for Sandusky's victims by failing to inquire as to their safety and well-being, especially by not attempting to determine the identity of the child who Sandusky assaulted in the Lasch Building in 2001. Further, they exposed this child to additional harm by alerting Sandusky, who was the only one who knew the child's identity, of what McQueary saw in the shower on the night of February 9, 2001.



RBBM: :maddening:

Question : Will these other 3 -- Spanier, Schultz, Curley -- be HELD RESPONSIBLE for their LACK of ACTION to protect these young children from Sandusky as well as their participation in the cover-up ? I sure hope so !

:moo: They belong in :jail::jail::jail: along with Sandusky !

:moo:

wfgodot
07-12-2012, 01:13 PM
Deadspin, adding to their Everything You Need To Know About Today’s Damning Report On Penn State reports:
• Freeh Report: Joe Paterno Knew In 1998 (http://deadspin.com/5925408/freeh-report-joe-paterno-knew-in-1998)
• ESPN Trots Out Matt Millen To Fumble His Way Through The Freeh Report (http://deadspin.com/5925472/espn-trots-out-matt-millen-to-tard-his-way-through-the-freeh-report)
• Freeh Report: Detective Alludes To Penn State Administrators’ Habit Of Interfering With Investigations (http://deadspin.com/5925456/freeh-report-detective-alludes-to-penn-state-administrators-habit-of-interfering-with-investigations)
• TVs At Penn State's Student Center Were Switched Away From Live Coverage Of The Freeh Report's Release (http://deadspin.com/5925445/report-tvs-at-penn-states-student-center-were-switched-away-from-live-coverage-of-the-freeh-reports-release)
• In 1998, Jerry Sandusky Told State Officials And University Police “He Had Done This With Other Children In The Past” (http://deadspin.com/5925453/?utm_campaign=socialflow_deadspin_twitter&utm_source=deadspin_twitter&utm_medium=socialflow)

Elphaba
07-12-2012, 01:14 PM
I was reading some of our local tv stations postings and was shocked by comments from "JoPa" supporters... people want his "legacy" left alone. Sorry, but the day he turned a blind eye to this he lost his legacy.

ETA: a blind eye to the victims...

believe09
07-12-2012, 01:22 PM
I find that really interesting-at what time are people willing to give a pass??

If I am as dispassionate as I can possibly be, and IF I choose to believe that JoPa knew nothing prior to 1998 (although he told Freeh's investigators that he had heard rumors) I think that you have to count the number of assaults by Jer from 1998 after...and decide if he deserves the accolades. Because, at a minimum, Jer would not have been able to use PennState as his bait. At least as obviously.

Jer used Penn state as his bait-isnt that something? In spite of his fantasy world in his head, no one really wanted him at all. Sorry, o/t for a moment.

wfgodot
07-12-2012, 01:25 PM
From Deadspin:
• Nike Strips Joe Paterno’s Name From Its Child Care Center (http://deadspin.com/5925497/nike-strips-joe-paternos-name-from-its-child-care-center)

J. J. in Phila
07-12-2012, 01:28 PM
I find that really interesting-at what time are people willing to give a pass??

If I am as dispassionate as I can possibly be, and IF I choose to believe that JoPa knew nothing prior to 1998 (although he told Freeh's investigators that he had heard rumors) I think that you have to count the number of assaults by Jer from 1998 after...and decide if he deserves the accolades. Because, at a minimum, Jer would not have been able to use PennState as his bait. At least as obviously.


I think you mean 2001. Paterno knew 1998, just after it happened, but there is no suggestion he knew about any pre-1998 stuff. He knew about 1998 in 2001.


Jer used Penn state as his bait-isnt that something? In spite of his fantasy world in his head, no one really wanted him at all. Sorry, o/t for a moment.

believe09
07-12-2012, 01:28 PM
From Deadspin:

I think it had to be done. :(

nursebeeme
07-12-2012, 01:31 PM
whaaat? the board tells him not to bring guests to the locker room?

that's it?

unbelievable! (I am still reading)

J. J. in Phila
07-12-2012, 01:32 PM
Statement from the Board of Trustees:

Today with the report released by Judge Louis Freeh, the Penn State Board of Trustees delivered on the commitment we made last November when we engaged Judge Freeh to conduct an independent investigation into the University's actions regarding former Penn State employee, Jerry Sandusky, and the handling of allegations of the child abuse crimes of which he has since been found guilty.

Judge Freeh and his team conducted a rigorous, eight-month investigation into all aspects of the University's actions to determine where breakdowns occurred and what changes should be made for the future. We like many others have eagerly anticipated Judge Freeh's Report of the findings of his investigation.

His report has just been released at http://thefreehreportonpsu.com/ and we currently are reviewing his findings and recommendations. We expect a comprehensive analysis of our policies, procedures and controls related to identifying and reporting crimes and misconduct, including failures or gaps that may have allowed alleged misconduct to go undetected or unreported. We will provide our initial response later today.

We want to ensure we are giving the report careful scrutiny and consideration before making any announcements or recommendations. We are convening an internal team comprising the Board of Trustees, University administration and our legal counsel to begin analyzing the report and digesting Judge Freeh's findings.

As we anticipate the review and approval process will take some time, our initial response and immediate next steps will be presented at 3:30 at the Dayton/Taylor Conference Room at the Hilton Scranton & Conference Center.

These top-line reactions will provide an overview of our process for developing and implementing a plan once we have studied the report and have a better understanding of what it means and how we can implement findings to strengthen Penn State's role as a leading academic institution and ensure that what occurred will never be allowed to happen again.

believe09
07-12-2012, 01:34 PM
I think you mean 2001. Paterno knew 1998, just after it happened. He knew about 1998 in 2001.

I think we are saying the same thing. To me, all roads lead to those brave two boys who were interviewed and the mom who got Jer to talk about it while investigators were listening. If JoPa was following the investigation into the 1998 incident closely, then he must have known about Jer's virtual confession I would think.

I mean, Jer went to the child's baseball games. He tried repeatedly to contact him.

I may be confused, but then by the time 2001 rolled around, they should have jumped to report to LE, but Freeh's report implies that JoPa's intervention changed the plan to notify Second Mile and DW...do I have that timeline correct?

wfgodot
07-12-2012, 01:34 PM
Boink!
Michael Rosenberg ‏@Rosenberg_Mike
Penn State should keep the Joe Paterno statue. Just move it so he is looking the other way.
And again from Deadspin:
• Paterno Family Statement Blames Everyone But Joe Paterno, Who Is To Blame (http://deadspin.com/5925463/paterno-family-statement-blames-everyone-but-joe-paterno-who-is-to-blame)

believe09
07-12-2012, 01:36 PM
whaaat? the board tells him not to bring guests to the locker room?

that's it?

unbelievable! (I am still reading)

Yup-clear as mud. And how about the decisionmaking regarding his tickets to the games...football and BB?

Yeah, no one knew. Riiight. Hat's off to the ones that started this all.

nursebeeme
07-12-2012, 01:40 PM
the whole situation is utterly disgusting.

if this is what power and money can buy a person I will be weak and penniless gladly.

wfgodot
07-12-2012, 01:45 PM
Penn State was famous for not having their players' names on the back of their uniforms.

Penn State should now be infamous for having their administrators' prison numbers on the back of theirs.

BetteDavisEyes
07-12-2012, 01:49 PM
I was out this morning and haven't had much time to read all the news articles about the investigative findings, but I'm "listening" to In Session and will make an effort to catch up on the report today. In recent weeks, it seemed that the Paterno family tried desperately to turn attention away from Joe having any knowledge of Sandusky's sexual proclivities, and I found myself thinking that they "protested too much".

Sadly, Joe Paterno's Penn State legacy has been forever tarnished. He had the opportunity to become a hero and do what was morally right by reporting Sandusky's "crimes", but he put football first, allowed the behavior to continue, and made every effort to conceal what he knew and gave others the green light to hide it, as well :furious:

BennyProfane
07-12-2012, 01:57 PM
Admin gave me the go ahead to start a separate thread so that posters can help one another with pieces of the report, MSM articles and twitter feeds etc as everything is dissected.

As in the Grand Jury Indictment and the trial, there is graphic information contained within the report.



Bring over posts you would like included on this thread.

:banghead:

I'm bringing this over since it was the subject of such a protracted debate on the other thread about Paterno being a mandated reporter and Schultz being a proper legal channel of communication for that reporting. Freeh's report is very specific (pg. 118):

The Special Investigative Counsel found no indication that Paterno, Curley and McQueary met their responsibilities as CSAs by reporting, or ensuring that someone reported, this incident to the University Police Department. As a result, no timely warning could have been issued to the University community and the incident was not included in the University's Clery Crime statistics for 2001.
McQueary, Paterno and Curley did report the incident to Schultz who, as SVP-FB, was ultimately in charge of the University Police Department. However, Schultz was not a law enforcement officer and was not the person designated to receive Clery Crime reports or to collect Clery Crime statistics for the University.
Arguably, as the most senior leaders of the University, Schultz and Spanier should have ensured compliance with the Clery Act regarding this incident. There is no record that Spanier or Schultz reported, or designated someone to report, the incident to the University Police Department, which should have caused the incident to be included in the University's Clery Crime statistics and may have triggered the issuance of a timely warning to the University community.

wfgodot
07-12-2012, 01:58 PM
Update (1:21 p.m. EDT): After having switched to public access the moment the report was released at 9 a.m., the TVs in the student center did eventually show the Freeh Group's 10 a.m. press conference.
Deadspin (http://deadspin.com/5925445/report-tvs-at-penn-states-student-center-were-switched-away-from-live-coverage-of-the-freeh-reports-release)

dog.gone.cute
07-12-2012, 02:07 PM
Penn State was famous for not having their players' names on the back of their uniforms.

Penn State should now be infamous for having their administrators' prison numbers on the back of theirs.


BBM: Yep ... I knew nothing about Penn State UNTIL this !

:waitasec: 1 down ... 3 to go ...

:waiting: for Spanier :behindbar
:waiting: for Schultz :behindbar
:waiting: for Curley :behindbar

:cow:

costalpilot
07-12-2012, 02:09 PM
just reported on the scott van pelt (espn) show that NIKE has taken joe paterno's name off a building that was nam3ed after him on its campus, and that Phil Knight mad ea a statement that he was apparently wrong in his support of paterno after his death. knight, the president of nike, made an impassio0ned speech in support of paterno at his funeral..appaerently even phil gets it.

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/report-nike-change-name-paterno-172013250--ncaaf.html



incidentially the co host on van pelts show just called on the paterno fami9ly to stop issuing statements in support of joe, that they were not hgelping him

as i said, they are deluded and hurting his already disturbed image at this point.

dog.gone.cute
07-12-2012, 02:17 PM
just reported on the scott van pelt (espn) show that NIKE has taken joe paterno's name off a building that was named after him on its campus, and that Phil Knight mad ea a statement that he was apparently wrong in his support of paterno after his death. knight, the president of nike, made an impassio0ned speech in support of paterno at his funeral..appaerently even phil gets it.

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/report-nike-change-name-paterno-172013250--ncaaf.html


Snipped and RBBM : :clap::clap::clap::clap::clap:

And THANKS for this update !

:moo:

BetteDavisEyes
07-12-2012, 02:18 PM
July 12, 2012, 1:09 pm

Freeh Report: Did Joe Paterno conceal the abuse?
Louis Freeh on if Joe Paterno used his power as head football coach to concealed reports of the rapes. 07/12/12

After Jerry Sandusky was initially arrested, Joe Paterno issued a statement. In it, the former Penn State head coach said he wished “he had done more” to prevent what happened. Now we know he could have done more, quite a bit more, but knowingly failed to do so.

In November, Penn State’s Board of Trustees empowered Former FBI director Louis Freeh and his law firm to conduct an independent investigation concerning the university’s involvement with, knowledge of, and culpability stemming from Sandusky’s criminal sexual activities. (Sandusky was recently convicted on 45 of 48 counts and is awaiting sentencing.) You can read the full findings here. The report is beyond damning – for the university, its most powerful leaders, its carefully crafted and once-pristine image, and particularly Paterno.

http://www.csnphilly.com/xfinity/No-doubts-remain-Paternos-legacy-tarnish?blockID=739220&feedID=704&awid=7162790296513867767-689

BetteDavisEyes
07-12-2012, 03:04 PM
HLN reporting that there will be a live press conference with Penn State officials. No specific time yet.

J. J. in Phila
07-12-2012, 03:06 PM
I may be confused, but then by the time 2001 rolled around, they should have jumped to report to LE, but Freeh's report implies that JoPa's intervention changed the plan to notify Second Mile and DW...do I have that timeline correct?

In 1998, it was reported, with no interference from the Big Four. Univ Police investigated, reported it to the DA's Office and DPW. DA's didn't press charges; DPW drops the investigation after that. In the process, the Univ Police informed the Big Four.

2001, McQueary reports it to Pateno, who reports to Curley, who reports it to Schultz and, eventually, to Spanier. The Big Four originally plan to report it to DPW, but backs off.

nursebeeme
07-12-2012, 03:07 PM
re: penn state officials press conference:

really?

I think out of respect for all the victims they should at least give the latest a little time to sink in before starting more damage control

J. J. in Phila
07-12-2012, 03:13 PM
hln reporting that there will be a live press conference with penn state officials. No specific time yet.

3:30 pm.

Tipstaff
07-12-2012, 03:19 PM
Joe Paterno's family is suffering from the same disorder as Paterno himself. They are in OZ and still believe in the wizard.

In their effort to protect Paterno's legacy they are continuing to deny the egregious behavior of Paterno, Spanier, Schultz and Curley and it becomes apparent they believe they can control Paterno's legacy - just like Paterno believed he could hide Sandusky in plain sight and allow him to continue his criminal abuse of young boys.

Their willingness to continue the verbal discourse ie 'sharing' the responsibility is vile and disgusting....apparently they, Paterno's family, still believe they have power.

To this end Jay Paterno will react after the 3 30PM Penn State News Conference.

StellarsJay
07-12-2012, 03:20 PM
Bumped
Aargh! Have downloaded the report (thanks for the link) and seached for two names- dranov and raykovitz-
Nothing.
It appears that Freeh confined his report tightly within Penn State .
I'm disappointed that nothing is said about the responsibilities of these men.
OTT, its a great report.

BetteDavisEyes
07-12-2012, 03:27 PM
re: penn state officials press conference:

really?

I think out of respect for all the victims they should at least give the latest a little time to sink in before starting more damage control

This oughta be good: Wash. Rinse. Spin, spin, spin...

OT: Nurse, did you hear about the bomb threat at the Detroit/Windsor tunnel? It's been evacuated during an investigation.

costalpilot
07-12-2012, 03:31 PM
BoT news conference now being carried live on espn now

nursebeeme
07-12-2012, 03:39 PM
phil knight issues statement (most likely due to his "other" statement)

more damage control

http://espn.go.com/blog/bigten/post/_/id/53036/phil-knight-issues-statement-on-joe-paterno

Reader
07-12-2012, 03:40 PM
Just to say I finally got into the report and still reading and seeing the same as everybody here....damning, damning, damning on Paterno...just what I and others thought:


Spanier and Paterno, as well as former university vice president Gary Schultz and ex-athletic director Tim Curley, failed to protect victims from Sandusky, the report found. "Some coaches, administrators and football program staff members ignored the red flags of Sandusky's behaviors and no one warned the public about him," the report says.

The probe's leader, former FBI Director Louis Freeh, also said Thursday that Curley consulted with Paterno following sex abuse allegations against Sandusky, and "they changed the plan and decided not to make a report to the authorities."

That's it for me....TAKE DOWN THE STATUE!!!

CNN is posting a good report on it as they read it also:

http://news.blogs.cnn.com/2012/07/12...sed/?hpt=hp_t1

costalpilot
07-12-2012, 03:41 PM
phil knight issues statement (most likely due to his "other" statement)

more damage control

http://espn.go.com/blog/bigten/post/_/id/53036/phil-knight-issues-statement-on-joe-paterno

yeah, seems joe "missed" something and phil "missed that joe missed"

right

Tipstaff
07-12-2012, 03:46 PM
Curley and Schultz's lawyers will have a field day saying that after the Freeh report that they will NOT be able to receive a fair trial.

Tipstaff
07-12-2012, 03:49 PM
The Board at Penn State needs time to reflect - IMO they need time to gage public opinion and donation levels before they decide on how to react.

Not getting a lot of confidence from the board members speaking that once the spotlight goes away that it won't be business as usual.

Not seeing anything of value in this press conference.

wfgodot
07-12-2012, 03:54 PM
Again, from Deadspin:

The NCAA Is Reading The Freeh Report Very Closely (http://deadspin.com/5925525/the-ncaa-is-reading-the-freeh-report-very-closely)
---
Whatever the NCAA decides, there is still the DOE, and the Clery Act, and the Justice Department (which happens to be asking around if school funds were ever used to buy Sandusky victims' silence). It's not simple for anyone.
---
much more at the link

costalpilot
07-12-2012, 03:54 PM
i'll say the reporters arent backing down

they are right in their face

Reader
07-12-2012, 03:55 PM
Does anybody have a link to a copy of the report where you can 'copy&paste'?
I tried to convert it but can't since it has a password. TIA

Besides all of the bombshells about the 4 principal actors (they just were acting concerned about children), the next thing that floored me was how Spanier and BALDWIN lied by omission and downplayed the 2001 report to the previous Board of Trustees. Of course, the 1998 report was not mentioned to the BOT either...so they had no history or facts to go on...no wonder their statements seemed a little off, plus Spanier changing them to cover his butt more.

I still say as president of the school, he had the ultimate responsibility for deciding how both reports were handled, no matter the power anyone else had. He should be right beside Curley and Schultz in court on charges.

Tipstaff
07-12-2012, 03:56 PM
I get it now the Paterno foundation can be sued by the victims in civil court. Follow the money!

costalpilot
07-12-2012, 03:57 PM
Again, from Deadspin:

The NCAA Is Reading The Freeh Report Very Closely (http://deadspin.com/5925525/the-ncaa-is-reading-the-freeh-report-very-closely)

much more at the link

one thing about the ncaa is


throw a feather in the air and base on where it lands what they are gonna do, ya got as good a chance as being right as any other other method

an enigma wrapped in a mystery...for sure

SuziQ
07-12-2012, 03:58 PM
July 12, 2012, 1:09 pm

Freeh Report: Did Joe Paterno conceal the abuse?
Louis Freeh on if Joe Paterno used his power as head football coach to concealed reports of the rapes. 07/12/12

After Jerry Sandusky was initially arrested, Joe Paterno issued a statement. In it, the former Penn State head coach said he wished “he had done more” to prevent what happened. Now we know he could have done more, quite a bit more, but knowingly failed to do so.

In November, Penn State’s Board of Trustees empowered Former FBI director Louis Freeh and his law firm to conduct an independent investigation concerning the university’s involvement with, knowledge of, and culpability stemming from Sandusky’s criminal sexual activities. (Sandusky was recently convicted on 45 of 48 counts and is awaiting sentencing.) You can read the full findings here. The report is beyond damning – for the university, its most powerful leaders, its carefully crafted and once-pristine image, and particularly Paterno.

http://www.csnphilly.com/xfinity/No-doubts-remain-Paternos-legacy-tarnish?blockID=739220&feedID=704&awid=7162790296513867767-689

JP's legacy is a joke since he was never man enough to have deserved it in the first place. Small pathetic (unusual person).

costalpilot
07-12-2012, 03:58 PM
I get it now the Paterno foundation can be sued by the victims in civil court. Follow the money!

oh...no wonder they are so sure joe was so right all along

costalpilot
07-12-2012, 04:00 PM
these things happen. all over.

thanks president erickson

so, its not just football, which is SO important to penn state?

Rlaub44
07-12-2012, 04:00 PM
Interesting that Wendell Courtney, the counsel for both PSU and 2nd Mile, declined to be interviewed by the Freeh Group under the advice of his legal counsel.

I sure hope the legal process doesn't rest with the conviction of Sandusky and the upcoming trials for Curley and Schultz. There are many others who have much to answer for.

wfgodot
07-12-2012, 04:04 PM
I get it now the Paterno foundation can be sued by the victims in civil court. Follow the money!
Yup, "cui bono?" is almost always the important question: "as a benefit to whom?" a.k.a., "who profits?"

wfgodot
07-12-2012, 04:10 PM
Deadspin:

The 10 Most Appalling Revelations About Graham Spanier, And Why He Could Be The Next One Charged (http://deadspin.com/5925539/the-ten-most-appalling-revelations-about-graham-spanier-and-why-he-could-be-the-next-one-charged)

Damning.

costalpilot
07-12-2012, 04:16 PM
some sports reporter who deals with the ncaa says his experts tell him the 2A won
t pursue.

but another Th points out that the 2A could do it

the reporter still insists it doesn appear likely


well i have news for him...nothing the 2A does "appears likely"

nursebeeme
07-12-2012, 04:17 PM
board says they are accountable...

The chairwoman of Penn State's board of trustees says the panel "accepts full responsibility for the failures that occurred" in the Jerry Sandusky sex abuse scandal.

Karen Peetz and other board members pledged to make changes to ensure similar abuse can't go on unchecked in the future. They say the board failed to ask tough questions about Sandusky.

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-201_162-57471348/penn-state-trustees-we-are-accountable/

bbm: I think they don't deserve to be the ones to make changes if they were the ones that were culpable to begin with..

seat a new board.

:moo:

and let that NEW board make the changes

Reader
07-12-2012, 04:22 PM
Yup, "cui bono?" is almost always the important question: "as a benefit to whom?" a.k.a., "who profits?"

Yep, we were following that in some of the earlier threads....I think some of the boys are suing 2nd Mile now and I hope others join in...they should get every penny that is left from that farce and front for JS to abuse boys....and they should sue Dottie too...for not protecting them in her own home....

J. J. in Phila
07-12-2012, 04:27 PM
board says they are accountable...

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-201_162-57471348/penn-state-trustees-we-are-accountable/

bbm: I think they don't deserve to be the ones to make changes if they were the ones that were culpable to begin with..

seat a new board.

:moo:

and let that NEW board make the changes

Much of the board has been replaced. There is rotation of the board.

nursebeeme
07-12-2012, 04:29 PM
Much of the board has been replaced. There is rotation of the board.

bbm.. all of the board would be even better.. but that is good news

Reader
07-12-2012, 04:36 PM
Bringing these links over:

Freeh's prepared remarks:

http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnn/2012/im....pdf?hpt=us_c1

-------

Google has a good list of reports from different sources:

http://news.google.com/news/rtc?pz=1...dzfCgM&topic=h

Rlaub44
07-12-2012, 04:40 PM
Freeh found no evidence that McQueary's hiring was related to his witnessing Sandusky assault the boy in the shower.

wfgodot
07-12-2012, 04:44 PM
• Penn State’s Board Of Trustees Hired The Freeh Group, But They Did Not Escape Its Scrutiny (http://deadspin.com/5925511/penn-states-board-of-trustees-hired-the-freeh-group-but-they-did-not-escape-its-scrutiny)
• When Current PSU President Rodney Erickson Bent The Rules For Jerry Sandusky (http://deadspin.com/5925561/when-current-penn-state-president-rodney-erickson-bent-the-rules-for-jerry-sandusky)
Deadspin

luvhockey
07-12-2012, 04:46 PM
Just heard on HLN Sandusky has filed an appeal today
Here's a link (http://www.post-gazette.com/stories/sports/psu/sandusky-attorney-files-appeal-notice-of-judges-order-644470/) from Post Gazette

StellarsJay
07-12-2012, 04:47 PM
Prognistication:
13th of the litigants now suing Penn State is Dorothy Sandusky, represented by Karl Rominger. She is claiming $3MM in specific damages and $20 MM in punitive damages. Sandusky states that by malfiesance, incompetence and criminal indifference the Penn State institution, its administration, and its janitors conspired to deny her husband medical and psychological therapy which would have cured his treatable personality disorder and saved his reputation and their marriage.
She is further suing for her own pain and suffering during many years of anxiety, denial of conubial benefits and having to wear ear plugs to sleep .

Reader
07-12-2012, 04:50 PM
On Penn State culture:

"One of the most challenging of the tasks confronting the Penn State community is transforming the culture that permitted Sandusky's behavior, as illustrated throughout this report, and which directly contributed to the failure of Penn State's most powerful leaders to adequately report and respond to the actions of a serial sexual predator."

"It is up to the entire University community -- students, faculty, staff, alumni, the Board, and the administration -- to undertake a thorough and honest review of its culture. The current administration and Board of Trustees should task the University community, including students, faculty, staff, alumni, and peers from similar institutions and outside experts in ethics and communications, to conduct such a review. The findings from such a review may well demand further changes."

http://edition.cnn.com/2012/07/12/us/penn-state-report-excerpts/

Reader
07-12-2012, 04:56 PM
Watch Penn State and Sandusky Report Press Conference - YouTube

J. J. in Phila
07-12-2012, 04:57 PM
Just heard on HLN Sandusky has filed an appeal today
Here's a link (http://www.post-gazette.com/stories/sports/psu/sandusky-attorney-files-appeal-notice-of-judges-order-644470/) from Post Gazette

He is appealing the leak order.

Reader
07-12-2012, 05:00 PM
Penn State's Board of Trustees:

"Once the Board was made aware of the investigations of Sandusky and the fact that senior University officials had testified before the Grand Jury in the investigations, it should have recognized the potential risk to the University community and to the University's reputation. Instead, the Board, as a governing body, failed to inquire reasonably and to demand detailed information from Spanier."

"The Board's overconfidence in Spanier's abilities to deal with the crisis, and its complacent attitude left them unprepared to respond to the November 2011 criminal charges filed against two senior Penn State leaders and a former prominent coach. Finally, the Board's subsequent removal of Paterno as head football coach was poorly handled, as were the Board's communications with the public."

"The Board did not take steps that might have protected the University, such as conducting an internal investigation, engaging experienced criminal counsel, or preparing for the possibility that the results of the Grand Jury investigation could have a negative impact on the University. "

http://edition.cnn.com/2012/07/12/us/penn-state-report-excerpts/

Tipstaff
07-12-2012, 05:16 PM
Prognistication:
13th of the litigants now suing Penn State is Dorothy Sandusky, represented by Karl Rominger. She is claiming $3MM in specific damages and $20 MM in punitive damages. Sandusky states that by malfiesance, incompetence and criminal indifference the Penn State institution, its administration, and its janitors conspired to deny her husband medical and psychological therapy which would have cured his treatable personality disorder and saved his reputation and their marriage.
She is further suing for her own pain and suffering during many years of anxiety, denial of conubial benefits and having to wear ear plugs to sleep .

If this suit is filed by Dorothy Sandusky she is as evil as her husband. She ignored what was going on in her own home.

BetteDavisEyes
07-12-2012, 05:25 PM
I can't imagine what Penn State sponsors/supporters - corporations and/or individuals who generously contribute to the university - are thinking and feeling right now about their donations being used to compensate Jerry Sandusky's victims? The victims are also likely go after Paterno's Estate and anyone else who might have deep pockets and participated in this disgusting, shameful coverup. :moo:

Reader
07-12-2012, 05:25 PM
Prognistication:
13th of the litigants now suing Penn State is Dorothy Sandusky, represented by Karl Rominger. She is claiming $3MM in specific damages and $20 MM in punitive damages. Sandusky states that by malfiesance, incompetence and criminal indifference the Penn State institution, its administration, and its janitors conspired to deny her husband medical and psychological therapy which would have cured his treatable personality disorder and saved his reputation and their marriage.
She is further suing for her own pain and suffering during many years of anxiety, denial of conubial benefits and having to wear ear plugs to sleep .


Love it!

otto
07-12-2012, 05:28 PM
If this suit is filed by Dorothy Sandusky she is as evil as her husband. She ignored what was going on in her own home.

" ...having to wear ear plugs to sleep" ??? ... so she wants 23 million dollars? What am I missing. Let me guess ... she had to block out the screams for help from the victims in the basement?

Tipstaff
07-12-2012, 05:35 PM
"denial of conubial benefits"...................................that phrase in relationship to Dottie Sandusky and Jerry Sandusky is going to give me tonight's nightmare..........thanks....thanks at lot Stellars!

waltzingmatilda
07-12-2012, 05:37 PM
Spaniers attys release statement.

http://www.whptv.com/news/local/story/Attorneys-for-Graham-Spanier-release-statement-on/5SUkbMRD6kqSEyHafbIAkA.cspx

Seems everyone is in CYA mode.

moo

wm

FrayedKnot
07-12-2012, 05:49 PM
That woman should thank her lucky stars that her behind isn't in the pokey with her pederast rapist husband.

But she isn't grateful at all. WTF? Charge the woman as an accessory! Dottie wants to mess with the bull, by God, give her the horns!

ETA: oops. Did NOT see the "prognostication" part of the post about a litigious Dottie S.! Boy is my face red!

nursebeeme
07-12-2012, 05:49 PM
Spaniers attys release statement.

http://www.whptv.com/news/local/story/Attorneys-for-Graham-Spanier-release-statement-on/5SUkbMRD6kqSEyHafbIAkA.cspx

Seems everyone is in CYA mode.

moo

wm

bbm: everyone in a power (or former power) position sure is. That is surly the theme of the day with all these "statements".....

Not one thing yet from the poor victims that I have seen.

My thoughts and prayers are with them today.

Reader
07-12-2012, 05:54 PM
Joe Paterno’s shame

http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/eugene-robinson-joe-paternos-shame/2012/07/12/gJQAu0HwfW_story.html

Outside the Penn State football stadium stands a statue of legendary coach Joe Paterno, his arm raised in victory. Right next to it, university officials should erect another figure in bronze: a young boy crying out in anguish and being coldly ignored.

Penn State’s Board of Trustees commissioned former FBI director Louis Freeh to investigate how child molester Jerry Sandusky — for years one of Paterno’s most trusted and loyal assistants — could have committed his awful crimes under the noses of university officials. The answer is simple and shocking: Those officials simply looked the other way.

More at link.....

IzzyBlanche
07-12-2012, 05:56 PM
Presumably the family totally agrees with joes reasoning that he shouldnt "interfere' with anyones ""weekend" whe n\he heard about sandusky raping a child in the penn state showers..oh, sorry, myabe not raping..maybe just abusing...maybe just inappopriate touching...maybe just showing the boy how to soap up his back...who knows, we werent there.



the paternos are in the process of destroying whatever is left of joes name as they continue to defend the indefensible. they do not see this.

interesting. they are deluded.

LOL I wrote nearly the exact same thing on the other thread. :rocker:

x_files
07-12-2012, 06:00 PM
Prognistication:
13th of the litigants now suing Penn State is Dorothy Sandusky, represented by Karl Rominger. She is claiming $3MM in specific damages and $20 MM in punitive damages. Sandusky states that by malfiesance, incompetence and criminal indifference the Penn State institution, its administration, and its janitors conspired to deny her husband medical and psychological therapy which would have cured his treatable personality disorder and saved his reputation and their marriage.
She is further suing for her own pain and suffering during many years of anxiety, denial of conubial benefits and having to wear ear plugs to sleep .

Is this real??? holy...
Why did she have to wear ear-plugs for?
She must have known something. This cover-up goes deep.

BetteDavisEyes
07-12-2012, 06:03 PM
Penn State should get death penalty
Jen Floyd Engel, FOX Sports
2 hours ago

Let former FBI director Louis Freeh tell you a story, one he detailed in his Penn State University-Jerry Sandusky report released Thursday.

There was this big, respected university with an iconic legend as its football coach.

It also had a pedophile operating in its program.

School officials knew this back in 1998 and covered it up.

They chose this “humane” route of covering up, turning their backs and protecting themselves rather than kids for more than a decade as boys went on being raped in the campus showers and on football trips. They did this because it benefited them, was easier for them and protected what they valued most — the football program...

http://xfinity.comcast.net/articles/sports-cfb/20120712/Engel-PSU-Death-Penalty/

StellarsJay
07-12-2012, 06:03 PM
But she isn't grateful at all. WTF? Charge the woman as an accessory! Dottie wants to mess with the bull, by God, give her the horns!
Sorry people, that report about Dorothy suing is my joke, I didn't mean to fray anyone's knots-- the real thing already does that enough.. But I can easily imagine it happening.

BetteDavisEyes
07-12-2012, 06:08 PM
Sorry people, that report about Dorothy suing is my joke, I didn't mean to fray anyone's knots-- the real thing already does that enough.. But I can easily imagine it happening.

;) You called your post a "prognostication", so I didn't take it seriously and :lol:

FrayedKnot
07-12-2012, 06:11 PM
Sorry people, that report about Dorothy suing is my joke, I didn't mean to fray anyone's knots-- the real thing already does that enough.. But I can easily imagine it happening.

Man oh man, I did realize that, post-post and went back to edit. Perhaps I should read more carefully before getting my knickers in a twist over something!

:D

TobyWong*
07-12-2012, 06:33 PM
Prognistication:
13th of the litigants now suing Penn State is Dorothy Sandusky, represented by Karl Rominger. She is claiming $3MM in specific damages and $20 MM in punitive damages. Sandusky states that by malfiesance, incompetence and criminal indifference the Penn State institution, its administration, and its janitors conspired to deny her husband medical and psychological therapy which would have cured his treatable personality disorder and saved his reputation and their marriage.
She is further suing for her own pain and suffering during many years of anxiety, denial of conubial benefits and having to wear ear plugs to sleep .

Haha stop it! I had to look up prognistication. Hahaha. It took me a few minutes of saying to myself. "No way. No she is not"

costalpilot
07-12-2012, 06:34 PM
now i totally understand the aggressive responses from the Paterno family as regards the report. espn has had his son, Jay paterno, on all afternoon arguing the finer, legally weak points involved in the report, and basically jay paterno is making the argument that many of the conclusions in the report were made based on evidence that would not be admitted into a court of law, and that, therefore, the conclusions in the report should be disregarded.

jay paterno is not a lawyer. but he looks like a lawyer, and now that i think about it, I believe his arguments were probably formulated by the family's lawyers and he was sent out to make their case.

as i watched him it occurred to me that the family needed a media consultant to advise them instead of a lawyer.

they have done nothing to help their dead patriarch's legacy. in fact, he is made to look even sleazier by these legalistic arguments. don't they realize that children were raped and terrorized as a result of their fathers action (and the actions of the puppets he installed to support him and the football program)? don't they realize that a former dirtector of the FBI has plainly told the nation all this, and that the nation believes it?

in response, they make legal arguments.

in earnest.

hubris run amuck. its very telling, imo.

Reader
07-12-2012, 06:42 PM
Penn State leaders disregarded victims, 'empowered' Sandusky, review finds

http://edition.cnn.com/2012/07/12/us/pennsylvania-penn-state-investigation/index.html

...........Even before the 1998 investigation, "Several staff members and football coaches regularly observed Sandusky showering with young boys," and none of those interviewed ever notified their superiors, the report found.

A year later, in 1999, Paterno, Spanier, Schultz and Curley decided to allow Sandusky to retire, "not as a suspected child predator, but as a valued member of the Penn State football legacy," the report says. That allowed him to continue to work with children at the university, "essentially granting him license to bring boys to campus facilities for 'grooming' as targets for his assaults."

He retained unlimited access to university facilities until November 2011, the report says. The school also approved a one-time lump sum payment of $168,000 to Sandusky in 1999. Top university officials said they had never known Penn State "to provide this type of payment to a retiring employee."

What was that payment for?

Indianagirl
07-12-2012, 06:43 PM
This quote says it all!!!!

"At the very least, Mr Paterno could have alerted the entire football staff, in order to prevent Sandusky from bringing another child into the Lasch Building."

teeandcee
07-12-2012, 06:45 PM
its very telling, imo.

Exactly what I was thinking. The right thing to do is so obvious to everyone except those involved in trying to continue this cover-up. And that's exactly how I see the family reaction....the same old cover-up by another generation.

Just say horrible mistakes were made and apologize. Offer some financial compensation and support for the victims. Anything. Do the right thing, people. Yeesh. I don't think these people are like the rest of us normal human beings.

DevilsPlayThing
07-12-2012, 06:49 PM
I have one question. What ever became of the 2001 victim ? Is he overseas in Military? Or never identified at all. Not identified publicly - due to when LE made positive ID - the 2001 victim was no longer physically available?
Or just never identified ?

IzzyBlanche
07-12-2012, 07:04 PM
whaaat? the board tells him not to bring guests to the locker room?

that's it?

unbelievable! (I am still reading)

"Guests?" Is that what they are calling them now? :maddening:

LNL
07-12-2012, 07:06 PM
This is a good article by Dan Wetzel for Yahoo! Sports

Joe Paterno's new legacy: Coach turned his back on helpless boys to protect himself and Sandusky

Page after page, damning detail after damning detail, direct document after direct document, it all comes crashing down in a confirmation of the worst assumptions once imaginable about Joe Paterno's role in the Jerry Sandusky sexual molestation scandal.

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/ncaaf--joe-paterno-blame-freeh-report-jerry-sandusky-penn-state-tarnished-legacy.html

IzzyBlanche
07-12-2012, 07:16 PM
Exactly what I was thinking. The right thing to do is so obvious to everyone except those involved in trying to continue this cover-up. And that's exactly how I see the family reaction....the same old cover-up by another generation.

Just say horrible mistakes were made and apologize. Offer some financial compensation and support for the victims. Anything. Do the right thing, people. Yeesh. I don't think these people are like the rest of us normal human beings.

And most of all, shut the [self-bleep] up. :maddening:

believe09
07-12-2012, 07:16 PM
In 1998, it was reported, with no interference from the Big Four. Univ Police investigated, reported it to the DA's Office and DPW. DA's didn't press charges; DPW drops the investigation after that. In the process, the Univ Police informed the Big Four.

2001, McQueary reports it to Pateno, who reports to Curley, who reports it to Schultz and, eventually, to Spanier. The Big Four originally plan to report it to DPW, but backs off.

Yes I knew this part. My understanding was that the big 4 did not interfere in 1998. My query is why, when it all came back around again in 2001, didnt the big 4 leap to the proper reporting channels...They hoped the 1998 incident was behind them, but clearly it wasnt.

I know why they didnt-that part is a rhetorical question.

believe09
07-12-2012, 07:18 PM
Deadspin:

The 10 Most Appalling Revelations About Graham Spanier, And Why He Could Be The Next One Charged (http://deadspin.com/5925539/the-ten-most-appalling-revelations-about-graham-spanier-and-why-he-could-be-the-next-one-charged)

Damning.

I think there is fire here. jmvho.

BrownRice
07-12-2012, 07:22 PM
I haven't watched any of this except for the 10:00 broadcast with Mr. Freeh. The entire time, I kept thinking of everyone here at WS and thinking WE HAVE BEEN SAYING THIS ALL ALONG!!!!! It's nice to see the public outrage and shame now.

J. J. in Phila
07-12-2012, 07:24 PM
I have one question. What ever became of the 2001 victim ? Is he overseas in Military? Or never identified at all. Not identified publicly - due to when LE made positive ID - the 2001 victim was no longer physically available?
Or just never identified ?

Victim 2, from 2001, was never identified.

believe09
07-12-2012, 07:26 PM
Victim 2, from 2001, was never identified.

That was the most chilling aspect of the report imo. They tipped Sandusky off.

So what happened to him? I hope he is OK. :(

teeandcee
07-12-2012, 07:57 PM
And most of all, shut the [self-bleep] up. :maddening:

That too. :banghead:

And it has to be said; I'm mad that the man is dead and not being shamed in person. Yeah, I'm petty that way sometimes.

costalpilot
07-12-2012, 08:00 PM
"Guests?" Is that what they are calling them now? :maddening:

yes...its talking in code, in hopes that an investigation is never instituted but if it is, the investigators wont understand what you are talking ABOUT.

guess the penn state 'leaders" didnt count on former fbi investigators. too bad for them.


btw, i liked it that Freeh kept referring to the consipirators as "leaders"

SuziQ
07-12-2012, 08:05 PM
I keep thinking that the only reason for covering up and perpetuating child rape is if you are into that too. I realize there has been no evidence of this brought forward. But. I. can't. get. that. thought. outta. my. head. It's like there is this big ole jagged puzzle piece that's not fitting.

Does anyone else wonder why Sandusky held so much power over men that were more powerful than he was?

believe09
07-12-2012, 08:05 PM
yes...its talking in code, in hopes that an investigation is never instituted but if it is, the investigators wont understand what you are talking ABOUT.

guess the penn state 'leaders" didnt count on former fbi investigators. too bad for them.


btw, i liked it that Freeh kept referring to the consipirators as "leaders"

What got me was the exhibit emails from 2001 while Spanier was in Australia, I believe. It is abundantly clear that a cover up was going on since they didnt simply speak candidly about the plan to approach Sandusky, which then changed after JoPa had his say. It was ridiculous.

ETA: 5F 5G 5H

Freeh Special Counsel Report-CNN version (http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnn/2012/images/07/12/freeh.report.pdf?hpt=hp_c1)

teeandcee
07-12-2012, 08:09 PM
I keep thinking that the only reason for covering up and perpetuating child rape is if you are into that too. I realize there has been no evidence of this brought forward. But. I. can't. get. that. thought. outta. my. head. It's like there is this big ole jagged puzzle piece that's not fitting.

Does anyone else wonder why Sandusky held so much power over men that were more powerful than he was?


YES and I've wondered this from the beginning. No kidding, I was just sitting here trying to word the question when I read your comment.

DevilsPlayThing
07-12-2012, 08:12 PM
Victim 2, from 2001, was never identified.

Thank you. Beyond heartbreaking.

You know I am feeling that in search of answers can possibly have some unwanted triggering effects. A media personality who was once LE was on a segment earlier today. He was discussing the report - then started yelling about JoePa being close enough to kick in the door.

Everywhere you listen look or read - it is all about protecting children. Trying to hold everyone responsible. Even the dead. When I was growing up it was not that long ago - and protecting children was not a priority. Not the impression I ever got as a child. If ever anyone saw children hurting - they would shut their doors. If dad hit - mom joined in. When we screamed for help - neighbours windows would slam shut. We had been hit and pinched and dragged out of Church by an arm as a toddler. No one said a word. Same goes for grocery stores - parking lots. Many public places. Left in hot cars alone. Left home alone - age 4. Dad tried to hit us with the car in the parking lot of a pizza place. Dad would come to school and scream and threaten. We couldn't be the only family like this. Huge city too.

It is just really different for some to see this complete turnaround - and so many saying if ever I saw a child being harmed I would rescue them. The truth is people did not know how to act when they saw abuse in public. They were probably scared too. And after seeing one time - and doing nothing they are no longer surprised by the 10th time and why report it then.

That is my own perspective - and I was a child when it all went down so might not mean much.

HMSHood
07-12-2012, 08:14 PM
Not surprised, but very sickening. Joe Paterno, Graham Spanier, Tim Curley, and Gary Schultz are scumbags. They are enablers and just as bad.

Penn State should get death penalty
http://msn.foxsports.com/collegefootball/story/penn-state-should-lose-football-privileges-dealth-penalty-in-wake-of-freeh-report-child-sex-abuse-071212

Penn State football team should be disbanded. The Penn State Scandal is the worst sports scandal ever. This makes SMU, 1919 Black Socks, and 2003 Baylor Basketball Scandal nothing. A whole institution took part. They Baylor scandal was a coach, Dave Bliss.

believe09
07-12-2012, 08:18 PM
Tim Curley- "I am planning on meeting with the other person next Monday on the other subject."



Gary Schultz- "Tim I am assuming you have got the ball to 1) talk with the subject ASAP regarding the future appropriate use of the University facility..."


These are quotes from the emails included as exhibits in the Freeh report. Why all of the secrecy between one another?

LNL
07-12-2012, 08:24 PM
I keep thinking that the only reason for covering up and perpetuating child rape is if you are into that too. I realize there has been no evidence of this brought forward. But. I. can't. get. that. thought. outta. my. head. It's like there is this big ole jagged puzzle piece that's not fitting.

Does anyone else wonder why Sandusky held so much power over men that were more powerful than he was?
I've always wondered the same thing. Makes me think that there are a lot of people in state college who are into little kids.

passionflower
07-12-2012, 08:26 PM
Birds of a feather? flock together? Just MOO

passionflower
07-12-2012, 08:28 PM
I've always wondered the same thing. Makes me think that there are a lot of people in state college who are into little kids.

yep and what about the creep that took his grand daughter into the men's shower. He testified FOR Sandusky.......hope someone looks into his past also!

wfgodot
07-12-2012, 08:34 PM
Three more from Deadspin's Everything You Need To Know About Today’s Damning Report On Penn State:

• Penn State Failed To Comply With Federal Law For Two Decades (http://deadspin.com/5925546/penn-state-failed-to-comply-with-federal-law-for-two-decades)
• Columnist Who Did Joe Paterno’s Full-Of-Sh// Last Interview Now Agrees Paterno Was Full Of Sh// (http://deadspin.com/5925615/columnist-who-did-joe-paternos-full+of+****-last-interview-now-agrees-paterno-was-full-of-****)
• Jay Paterno: The Freeh Report Contains “No New Facts,” Just “Some New Interpretations Of Things” (http://deadspin.com/5925598/jay-paterno-the-freeh-report-contains-no-new-facts-just-some-new-interpretations-of-things)

costalpilot
07-12-2012, 08:41 PM
[QUOTE=SuziQ;8141518]I keep thinking that the only reason for covering up and perpetuating child rape is if you are into that too. I realize there has been no evidence of this brought forward. But. I. can't. get. that. thought. outta. my. head. It's like there is this big ole jagged puzzle piece that's not fitting.

Does anyone else wonder why Sandusky held so much power over men that were more powerful than he was?[/QUOT

freeh got itr...they were protecting the program, NOT sandusky. E]



freeh nailed it...it was ALL about protecting the program and their jobs...in 1998 and 2001 when this all came down, penn state was going thru a really down period of wins vs losses....if this had come out, it would have killed recruiting, and it would have cost paterno his jobs, and probably these guys their jobs too. they werent protecting sandusky...they were protecting their jobs and the football program.

HMSHood
07-12-2012, 08:44 PM
I've always wondered the same thing. Makes me think that there are a lot of people in state college who are into little kids.

Jerry Sandusky was the 800 pound gorilla fueled by his enablers.

ynotdivein
07-12-2012, 08:55 PM
<modsnip>

What follows is :cow: and a very humble :cow: at that... but I don't think that it was Sandusky that held the power. I think these four were in thrall to a larger god, one that they each felt they had helped create, and that god was the Image of Penn State & Its Football Team.

Sandusky appeared to be a good apostle for this god, suitable for rolling out at golf tourneys and fundraisers, crafty with defensive coaching and hoistable on padded shoulders after wins. Maybe a little awkward socially, but he does SUCH good work with KIDS... Kids that they could hold up as examples of what a good and gracious god they had created. Kids who with a little hard work and spit-shining might someday be worthy of becoming followers of this god too.

And when it turned out that the apostle was no saint, they couldn't go in for public excommunication and exposure, since that would tarnish the golden idol they had created and sustained. They had to keep feeding innocent children to the hungry god they had created, and so it seemed sensible to treat the sinful apostle "humanely;" it seemed wise not to desire too many details of the sins; it seemed that since they had birthed this god or served it so well that its strength would always protect them.

I am not a religious person, and please know that I do not mean any of the above to offend those who are. The Old Testament story of the Golden Calf (Exodus?) just seems to offer so many fitting parallels here.

Aaaand to wind circuitously back to my original point, I don't think JS had any sway over C, S, S and P that he did not derive from simply having the fortune to land the job he did, when he did, working under the people he did.

Did I say :moo: ?

IzzyBlanche
07-12-2012, 09:06 PM
I've always wondered the same thing. Makes me think that there are a lot of people in state college who are into little kids.

Sadly, I think there are a lot of people everywhere who are into little kids.

It's mind-boggling.

BetteDavisEyes
07-12-2012, 09:11 PM
I usually don't watch Dr. Drew, but he is covering the Penn State issue on HLN now.

BrownRice
07-12-2012, 09:24 PM
I am sitting here watching/listening to Vinnie's show earlier today. Love his outrage and disgust. This is how I have felt typing on this forum all year.

I am slowly reading the report. CANNOT believe JS wanted to be the volunteer coordinator for middle school boys and suggests this in his retirement package? And JP goes along with it????? Un-*&^-believable.

J. J. in Phila
07-12-2012, 09:35 PM
freeh nailed it...it was ALL about protecting the program and their jobs...in 1998 and 2001 when this all came down, penn state was going thru a really down period of wins vs losses....if this had come out, it would have killed recruiting, and it would have cost paterno his jobs, and probably these guys their jobs too. they werent protecting sandusky...they were protecting their jobs and the football program.

Actually, 1997 (the last season before the 1998 incident), they were 9 and 3, a very good year. 2000 was a losing season, but only 5 to 7, and it was their first losing season in 12 years.

I'm also not seeing how a former assistant coach being a child molester would hurt recruiting. This whole scandal hasn't been that damaging.

Minette
07-12-2012, 09:37 PM
I keep thinking that the only reason for covering up and perpetuating child rape is if you are into that too. I realize there has been no evidence of this brought forward. But. I. can't. get. that. thought. outta. my. head. It's like there is this big ole jagged puzzle piece that's not fitting.

Does anyone else wonder why Sandusky held so much power over men that were more powerful than he was?

Yes! And it wouldn't have necessarily had to have been one of the Gang of Four, either--if it was a big name alumni or donor to the school who was somehow tied to Sandusky that might have been enough to trigger a cover-up. I hope LE is looking closely at donors to the school or 2nd Mile, especially those who might have been involved with Jerry's 'charity work' with boys. :maddening:

pferrin
07-12-2012, 09:39 PM
yep and what about the creep that took his grand daughter into the men's shower. He testified FOR Sandusky.......hope someone looks into his past also!

Passion I have thought about that creep many times since I heard that. I hope and pray someone is protecting his granddaughter and keeping him away. Makes me sick.

azwriter
07-12-2012, 09:44 PM
Joe Paterno's family is suffering from the same disorder as Paterno himself. They are in OZ and still believe in the wizard.

In their effort to protect Paterno's legacy they are continuing to deny the egregious behavior of Paterno, Spanier, Schultz and Curley and it becomes apparent they believe they can control Paterno's legacy - just like Paterno believed he could hide Sandusky in plain sight and allow him to continue his criminal abuse of young boys.

Their willingness to continue the verbal discourse ie 'sharing' the responsibility is vile and disgusting....apparently they, Paterno's family, still believe they have power.

To this end Jay Paterno will react after the 3 30PM Penn State News Conference.

The Paterno family needs to sit down and shut up, especially now that this report is so fresh.
Great post Tipstaff.

IzzyBlanche
07-12-2012, 09:46 PM
Actually, 1997 (the last season before the 1998 incident), they were 9 and 3, a very good year. 2000 was a losing season, but only 5 to 7, and it was their first losing season in 12 years.

I'm also not seeing how a former assistant coach being a child molester would hurt recruiting. This whole scandal hasn't been that damaging.

A former assistant coach being a child molester wouldn't have hurt recruiting, and probably would have helped it, had he been exposed for what he was by those in power who preached success with honor the minute they heard about it.

Hasn't been that damaging? No offense meant, but did you leave out a word again? Who would possibly want to attend Pedo U?

I mean just imagine, for one thing, the snarky signs fans of the opposing teams are going to be holding up for years to come. At the very least.

I just can't imagine anyone wanting to link his name to a program that is now so tarnished.

wfgodot
07-12-2012, 09:47 PM
I'm also not seeing how a former assistant coach being a child molester would hurt recruiting. This whole scandal hasn't been that damaging.
NCAA Sanctions Won't Be Necessary; Penn State Is Already Dead (http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1256675-ncaa-sanctions-wont-be-necessary-penn-state-is-already-dead) (Bleacher Report)

Penn State deserves death penalty for Sandusky cover-up (http://blogs.ajc.com/jeff-schultz-blog/2012/07/12/penn-state-football-deserves-death-penalty-for-cover-up/) (Atlanta Journal Constitution)

If Penn State is serious, shut down football now (http://www.usatoday.com/sports/columnist/brennan/story/2012-07-12/paterno-penn-state-shut-down-football/56166544/1) (USA Today)

Penn State deserves death penalty for football, prison for officials (http://www.suntimes.com/sports/13733985-419/penn-state-deserves-death-penalty-for-football-prison-for-officials.html) (Chicago Sun-Times)

Penn State should shut down football program (http://www.bostonglobe.com/sports/2012/07/12/penn-state-should-shut-down-program/O6U5mLADVma5EAZSQAUA5K/story.html) (Boston Globe)

Penn State should get death penalty (http://msn.foxsports.com/collegefootball/story/penn-state-should-lose-football-privileges-dealth-penalty-in-wake-of-freeh-report-child-sex-abuse-071212) (Fox Sports)

Penn State should get the death penalty (http://nbcsports.msnbc.com/id/48126484/ns/sports-college_football/) (NBC Sports)

Jerry Sandusky should cost Penn State football, too (http://www.tennessean.com/article/20120625/COLUMNIST0202/306250015/David-Climer-Jerry-Sandusky-should-cost-Penn-State-football-too?odyssey=tab%7Ctopnews%7Ctext%7CFRONTPAGE&nclick_check=1) (Nashville Tennessean)

Penn State deserves death penalty (http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2012-06-23/sports/os-jerry-sandusky-conviction-diaz_1_death-penalty-jerry-sandusky-child-molestation) (Orlando Sentinel)

ynotdivein
07-12-2012, 09:48 PM
Actually, 1997 (the last season before the 1998 incident), they were 9 and 3, a very good year. 2000 was a losing season, but only 5 to 7, and it was their first losing season in 12 years.

I'm also not seeing how a former assistant coach being a child molester would hurt recruiting. This whole scandal hasn't been that damaging.

J.J., you make a good point. Didn't Penn State set an internal record for fundraising this year?

I do think that back in '98 or '01 their fears of what would happen if they popped the pimple may have been inflated by protectionism and fear of "what might be."

azwriter
07-12-2012, 09:53 PM
I keep thinking that the only reason for covering up and perpetuating child rape is if you are into that too. I realize there has been no evidence of this brought forward. But. I. can't. get. that. thought. outta. my. head. It's like there is this big ole jagged puzzle piece that's not fitting.

Does anyone else wonder why Sandusky held so much power over men that were more powerful than he was?

This is the winning question SuziQ and thanks for posing it.
It makes me think of this question: Just what did Jerry have on these men that made him able to ignore them and keep on his merry way abusing young boys?

jmO

ynotdivein
07-12-2012, 09:54 PM
Mod note: please keep the conversation here confined to the Freeh Report and its ramifications. Suggestions that other case players are pedophiles or have pedophile tendencies are unsubstantiated, and as such are subject to removal & restrictions for those who post such rumors.

This post falls at random.

:tyou:

pferrin
07-12-2012, 09:55 PM
Actually, 1997 (the last season before the 1998 incident), they were 9 and 3, a very good year. 2000 was a losing season, but only 5 to 7, and it was their first losing season in 12 years.

I'm also not seeing how a former assistant coach being a child molester would hurt recruiting. This whole scandal hasn't been that damaging.

For me this is similar to the Catholic Church scandal..they may not lose alot of their members ..but how many still trust the leaders.

Doing the right thing would have been so good for Penn St.

I agree that this would not have hurt recruiting. Actually it would have been good for recruiting..parents would trust their kids would be safer had they done the right thing.

Best I can figure is they thought this would just go away. I dont think they wanted to deal with it..that didnt work out for them.

Minette
07-12-2012, 10:07 PM
From one of the articles wfgodot linked above in the Chicago Sun-Times:

Two years without football will allow a university to ponder how a program could become so big that it needed to be protected at all costs – even if it meant children’s lives would continue to be shattered.

In the silence on Saturdays you might hear the faint screams of boys who had been looking for an adult to rescue them. And found none.

Wow. My thoughts exactly.

Tipstaff
07-12-2012, 10:15 PM
I keep thinking that the only reason for covering up and perpetuating child rape is if you are into that too. I realize there has been no evidence of this brought forward. But. I. can't. get. that. thought. outta. my. head. It's like there is this big ole jagged puzzle piece that's not fitting.

Does anyone else wonder why Sandusky held so much power over men that were more powerful than he was?

A while back Quiche posted the information about the buildings these guys were all invested in to be built near the football stadium - maybe they all planned to cash in financially and it benefited each to keep things hush up - but the condo's never took off - but IIRC it was 2004 or 2005.

Anyone else remember details of this?

IzzyBlanche
07-12-2012, 10:18 PM
self mod-slapped.

Sorry.

Tipstaff
07-12-2012, 10:28 PM
Sports by Brooks is saying that there was security posted around Paterno's statue today.

BigCat
07-12-2012, 10:31 PM
I've been thinking the same thing. And, it could extend to influence over the DA's Office. The decision not to prosecute in 1998.

It is almost like Sandusky was protected by someone.

You're over-thinking it. It was about avoiding bad publicity.


Freeh report: Top officials at Penn State hid key facts in Sandusky investigation to avoid bad press

It was all about bad publicity.

According to the Freeh report, the top officials at Penn State — former President Graham Spanier, former Senior Vice President‐Finance and Business Gary Schultz, Athletic Director Timothy M. Curley and head football coach Joe Paterno — repeatedly concealed critical facts relating to Jerry Sandusky ’s child abuse from the authorities, the University’s board of trustees, the Penn State community, and the public at large, in order to avoid the consequences of bad publicity.


http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2012/07/freeh_report_top_officials_at.html

I grew up a college football fan. Sadly, I'm not surprised by the revelations today. And I'm also not surprised RFG didn't prosecute because he feared the wrath of the "crazy football fans." You do not want to be seen as the person bringing bad publicity to the football program. Players and coaches aren't responsible, of course. It's the fault of LE and the media in the minds of the school's football fans.

To the non-football-fanatics, the thought is there must be more to it. That can't be it.

I think it is.

JMO

IzzyBlanche
07-12-2012, 10:31 PM
NCAA Sanctions Won't Be Necessary; Penn State Is Already Dead (http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1256675-ncaa-sanctions-wont-be-necessary-penn-state-is-already-dead) (Bleacher Report)

Penn State deserves death penalty for Sandusky cover-up (http://blogs.ajc.com/jeff-schultz-blog/2012/07/12/penn-state-football-deserves-death-penalty-for-cover-up/) (Atlanta Journal Constitution)

If Penn State is serious, shut down football now (http://www.usatoday.com/sports/columnist/brennan/story/2012-07-12/paterno-penn-state-shut-down-football/56166544/1) (USA Today)

Penn State deserves death penalty for football, prison for officials (http://www.suntimes.com/sports/13733985-419/penn-state-deserves-death-penalty-for-football-prison-for-officials.html) (Chicago Sun-Times)

Penn State should shut down football program (http://www.bostonglobe.com/sports/2012/07/12/penn-state-should-shut-down-program/O6U5mLADVma5EAZSQAUA5K/story.html) (Boston Globe)

Penn State should get death penalty (http://msn.foxsports.com/collegefootball/story/penn-state-should-lose-football-privileges-dealth-penalty-in-wake-of-freeh-report-child-sex-abuse-071212) (Fox Sports)

Penn State should get the death penalty (http://nbcsports.msnbc.com/id/48126484/ns/sports-college_football/) (NBC Sports)

Jerry Sandusky should cost Penn State football, too (http://www.tennessean.com/article/20120625/COLUMNIST0202/306250015/David-Climer-Jerry-Sandusky-should-cost-Penn-State-football-too?odyssey=tab%7Ctopnews%7Ctext%7CFRONTPAGE&nclick_check=1) (Nashville Tennessean)

Penn State deserves death penalty (http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2012-06-23/sports/os-jerry-sandusky-conviction-diaz_1_death-penalty-jerry-sandusky-child-molestation) (Orlando Sentinel)

From the Fox article:

JoePalogists

:floorlaugh:

Except it really isn't all that funny. :cry:

ynotdivein
07-12-2012, 10:36 PM
PLEASE hold off on speculating about JS and the victims/survivors and any wider accusations of anyone, until further notice.

The Freeh Report focused on Penn State and the topic of this thread is discussion of that report.

No one, especially no one at WS, is insensitive to the potential ramifications and repercussions of this report.

But until we have more-solid information, I must repeat, speculations about the sexual proclivities and procurement practices of PS or TSM leaders or anyone else are off-limits at this time.

Rlaub44
07-12-2012, 10:39 PM
Actually, 1997 (the last season before the 1998 incident), they were 9 and 3, a very good year. 2000 was a losing season, but only 5 to 7, and it was their first losing season in 12 years.

I'm also not seeing how a former assistant coach being a child molester would hurt recruiting. This whole scandal hasn't been that damaging.

And surprisingly, Rivals.com has their current recruiting class ranked 15th in the country, so even after the scandal and cover-up came to light, high school athletes haven't been scared away.

Some of this might be the opportunity to play for new coach Bill O'Brien, which may override the stain on the Penn State name.

J. J. in Phila
07-12-2012, 10:46 PM
J.J., you make a good point. Didn't Penn State set an internal record for fundraising this year?

I do think that back in '98 or '01 their fears of what would happen if they popped the pimple may have been inflated by protectionism and fear of "what might be."

Second largest year, but a large portion was an $88 million donation for a hockey arena, I think.

The problem, as I see it, is in 1998 prosecuting Sandusky could damage the football program. What did the Big Four do? Apparently, absolutely nothing. They were not overly involved in the investigation, and it was being handled off campus, by the DA's Office.

There is no evidence that they pressured RFG; during the rest of his career, RFG prosecuted cases touching on Paterno, and did aggressively prosecute Penn State football players. He still could have prosecuted Sandusky until the day he disappeared on the 1998 incident.

There is zero evidence of bribery, and I've been looking at RFG's finances for a while. He was grossing over $100 K in 1998 and his wife worked. His house was worth $190 K in 2002 and his car was a Mitsubishi Spider; nothing points to an extravagant lifestyle.

The Seasock Report was cited by Freeh. He had the Chambers' Report. Seasock was not a licensed psychologist at the time, he didn't have his doctorate, and he had less experience than Dr. Chambers. Further, neither the conclusions of Seasock or Chambers were admissible in court.

A very bright guy made an extremely stupid decision, but apparently without the help of the Big Four.

J. J. in Phila
07-12-2012, 10:50 PM
You're over-thinking it. It was about avoiding bad publicity.



They didn't do it in 1998, when the publicity would have been worse. Sandusky was still part of the program then.

LNL
07-12-2012, 10:59 PM
I was surprised there wasn't more discussion in the report about the lady who used to be in the Office of Student Affairs ( I think) who was so critical of how JoePa handled the football players going bonkers at the party and beating people up. She quit because she was so frustrated by JoePa.

I guess her comments/sentiments might have been echoed in the comments about the culture at Penn State.

I just expected her to be more prominent in the report, even though this wasn't a student issue. She just seemed to have a lot to say about the old boys club.

BigCat
07-12-2012, 11:00 PM
They didn't do it in 1998, when the publicity would have been worse. Sandusky was still part of the program then.

You're comparing two different situations. Victim 6's mother reported the incident to university police. What could the Penn State 4 have done to cover up that incident? Nothing. They would have if they could. Who doubts that?

IzzyBlanche
07-12-2012, 11:05 PM
Brought over from the other thread:

Whoa....

According to college football talk, McQueary was not interviewed by the Freeh Group. How is that possible????

Whoa.

It's right there on page 12. The Freeh Group did not interview him at the request of the Attorney General.

BigCat
07-12-2012, 11:14 PM
Please excuse me if this has already been posted. It's the latest article from Sara Ganim. Wow, she's a smart one. And brave. And ahead of the game, as usual. If anyone has the courage to find out who was covering for Joe Pa, it's Sara.

Analysis: FBI Director Louis Freeh, state's results differ greatly. Why?

So how could they have come up with such different results about who was to blame for Jerry Sandusky’s rampant abuse of young boys on campus?

http://www.pennlive.com/midstate/index.ssf/2012/07/analysis_fbi_director_louis_fr.html

BigCat
07-12-2012, 11:15 PM
Brought over from the other thread:



Whoa.

It's right there on page 12. The Freeh Group did not interview him at the request of the Attorney General.

Probably because he's the key witness in the Curley/Schultz perjury trial.

SyraKelly
07-12-2012, 11:26 PM
I am wondering to about victim # 2-Freeh said at least twice in his report-no one took measures to name this boy or to see if he needed help-and them telling Sandusky about the inveg put that boy at risk when Sandusky was the only one who knew his name--I am wondering if this boy is still alive!!

IzzyBlanche
07-12-2012, 11:27 PM
Penn State leaders disregarded victims, 'empowered' Sandusky, review finds

snipped for focus

He retained unlimited access to university facilities until November 2011, the report says. The school also approved a one-time lump sum payment of $168,000 to Sandusky in 1999. Top university officials said they had never known Penn State "to provide this type of payment to a retiring employee."

What was that payment for?


Well, the report refers in the timeline on page 24, "Schultz leads a transaction to sell a parcel of University property to The Second Mile for $168,500-- the same as the University's 1999 acquisition cost.

Hmm.

HMSHood
07-12-2012, 11:27 PM
Since the Freeh report goes back to 1998, I have to wonder if this was going on before 1998 at Penn State. Also, I noticed this happened after Sandusky was told he would not be the head coach in 1998.

IzzyBlanche
07-12-2012, 11:40 PM
Probably because he's the key witness in the Curley/Schultz perjury trial.

Maybe, but it seems to me at this point their own emails are the key witnesses.

IzzyBlanche
07-12-2012, 11:41 PM
I am wondering to about victim # 2-Freeh said at least twice in his report-no one took measures to name this boy or to see if he needed help-and them telling Sandusky about the inveg put that boy at risk when Sandusky was the only one who knew his name--I am wondering if this boy is still alive!!

Maybe he and Gricar are hanging out together somewhere. Just a thought.

J. J. in Phila
07-13-2012, 12:08 AM
The school also approved a one-time lump sum payment of $168,000 to Sandusky in 1999. Top university officials said they had never known Penn State "to provide this type of payment to a retiring employee."

What was that payment for?

Lump sum payments are not too unusual for early retirements. It is basically to encourage people to take them, because their replacement doesn't make as much. A lot of salaries are based on longevity.

Sally, an employee might be making $100,000 a year after 25 years of employment. Because he's older, she has higher insurance costs as well. She could continue to work for the next 5 years.

Mary, a prospective new employee, might be hired at $25,000 for the same position. She won't get hired if Sally is still there.

You're the employer. Over the next 5 years, Sally gets $500 K. If Sally retires, and you hire Mary, you'll pay her $125 K. You'd save $375,000, if you can convince Sally to retire. You offer Sally $175,000 to retire. Even with that, you will save $200,000 over five years.

Rlaub44
07-13-2012, 12:25 AM
I was surprised there wasn't more discussion in the report about the lady who used to be in the Office of Student Affairs ( I think) who was so critical of how JoePa handled the football players going bonkers at the party and beating people up. She quit because she was so frustrated by JoePa.

I guess her comments/sentiments might have been echoed in the comments about the culture at Penn State.

I just expected her to be more prominent in the report, even though this wasn't a student issue. She just seemed to have a lot to say about the old boys club.

Vicki Triponey definitely had a lot to say, but she brought some baggage with her that may have discredited some of her opinions. I don't have the links at the ready, but there were several articles posted in the PSU student newspaper, The Daily Collegian, when she left that were very critical of the culture she brought to the office. None of the comments seemed to have anything to do with the athletic department, but more about how, for no clear reason, she disbanded several student organizations that gave students a voice in the University, and was responsible for closing the student-operated radio station.

The feeling at the time seemed to be that she was very out-of-touch with student affairs, was hard to work with, and headstrong; no wonder she clashed with Paterno, who was also notoriously stubborn and, as we have seen, very protective of his turf.

Rlaub44
07-13-2012, 12:32 AM
Lump sum payments are not too unusual for early retirements. It is basically to encourage people to take them, because their replacement doesn't make as much. A lot of salaries are based on longevity.

Sally, an employee might be making $100,000 a year after 25 years of employment. Because he's older, she has higher insurance costs as well. She could continue to work for the next 5 years.

Mary, a prospective new employee, might be hired at $25,000 for the same position. She won't get hired if Sally is still there.

You're the employer. Over the next 5 years, Sally gets $500 K. If Sally retires, and you hire Mary, you'll pay her $125 K. You'd save $375,000, if you can convince Sally to retire. You offer Sally $175,000 to retire. Even with that, you will save $200,000 over five years.

From reading the report, it seemed that they agreed on this as a counter-offer to Sandusky's request for a $20,000 a year, which in only 9 years would have amounted to more than his lump sum.

In one of the emails, Curley indicated wanting to settle the retirement without costing the University an arm and a leg. Funny now, because what they will pay as a result of covering up Sandusly's actions will far outstrip what they haggled over back then.

Reader
07-13-2012, 12:42 AM
Paterno's legacy may now be damaged beyond repair

http://centurylink.net/news/read.php?rip_id=%3CD9VVKBBO0%40news.ap.org%3E&ps=1013&page=1

For decades Penn State was considered special, immune from the corruption of college athletics by virtue of Joe Paterno's high ideals, long list of victories and even longer list of graduates.

Now, to many people outside Penn State and even some insiders, that's been exposed as an illusion............

"I doubt anybody could have imagined this. In eight months, he's gone from St. Joe to something approaching the devil," said Frank Fitzpatrick, a Philadelphia Inquirer columnist and author of two books on Paterno and Penn State, including a biography last year, "Pride of the Lions."

"The contrast between the ethical standards we always associated with Joe and the complete lack of them in how this was handled — if what the Freeh Report says is true, and I have no reason to doubt it is, to sacrifice kids for the reputation of a football program, that's pretty despicable. I can't imagine anything more shocking than that.".............

"We should look at (Paterno) as a willing enabler of a convicted child molester," Brennan said. "I absolutely understand and respect the past. The games he won, the number of players he graduated, that's a tremendous record. This supercedes all of that. ... What happened to these children because of Joe Paterno — it's because of Jerry Sandusky first and foremost. But Joe Paterno did not stop it and he enabled it, and that's just tragic.".........

"I always thought he knew. To what extent, that was the only question," said Brad Benson, a former Penn State offensive lineman who won a Super Bowl with the New York Giants. "I thought that anyone who didn't think he knew was pretty naive. Joe knew pretty much everything going on there.".............

"There's no way out of this to make it a good story. It's a shame," Benson said. "But we're being selfish saying it's a shame. It's a shame for these kids. Penn State will recover, these kids won't."............

IzzyBlanche
07-13-2012, 12:42 AM
Lump sum payments are not too unusual for early retirements. It is basically to encourage people to take them, because their replacement doesn't make as much. A lot of salaries are based on longevity.

Sally, an employee might be making $100,000 a year after 25 years of employment. Because he's older, she has higher insurance costs as well. She could continue to work for the next 5 years.

Mary, a prospective new employee, might be hired at $25,000 for the same position. She won't get hired if Sally is still there.

You're the employer. Over the next 5 years, Sally gets $500 K. If Sally retires, and you hire Mary, you'll pay her $125 K. You'd save $375,000, if you can convince Sally to retire. You offer Sally $175,000 to retire. Even with that, you will save $200,000 over five years.


However, the report says that JP said JS was welcome to continue coaching as long as he was head coach. (Unless the news reports I read are wrong. I'm slowly reading the report first-hand, and I haven't reached that part yet.)

So why would PSU administrators be throwing JS a carrot to encourage early retirement for monetary reasons, while JP apparently was willing to provide him employment for as long as he desired it, with no apparent cost concern?

Reader
07-13-2012, 12:49 AM
Lump sum payments are not too unusual for early retirements. It is basically to encourage people to take them, because their replacement doesn't make as much. A lot of salaries are based on longevity.

Sally, an employee might be making $100,000 a year after 25 years of employment. Because he's older, she has higher insurance costs as well. She could continue to work for the next 5 years.

Mary, a prospective new employee, might be hired at $25,000 for the same position. She won't get hired if Sally is still there.

You're the employer. Over the next 5 years, Sally gets $500 K. If Sally retires, and you hire Mary, you'll pay her $125 K. You'd save $375,000, if you can convince Sally to retire. You offer Sally $175,000 to retire. Even with that, you will save $200,000 over five years.

I'm well aware that these things happen at some places, but that doesn't answer my question about Sandusky. Since "Top university officials said they had never known Penn State "to provide this type of payment to a retiring employee."

What was that payment for?

Reader
07-13-2012, 12:53 AM
The shameless 4 (they are not big in my eyes) not only enabled and empowered Sandusky, they also enriched him...even after they knew all about what he was doing...WTH?

IzzyBlanche
07-13-2012, 12:53 AM
snipped for focus




Well, the report refers in the timeline on page 24, "Schultz leads a transaction to sell a parcel of University property to The Second Mile for $168,500-- the same as the University's 1999 acquisition cost.

Hmm.

Sorry to bump my own post...but Reader? Notice the similarities in amounts?

Reader
07-13-2012, 01:02 AM
Sorry to bump my own post...but Reader? Notice the similarities in amounts?

Thanks, yes I did notice....so does it look like they were giving him the money to buy the land? IDK, it seems like the 2nd Mile with all its own millions would have enough to take care of that...I think this was personal money for JS....

J. J. in Phila
07-13-2012, 01:03 AM
However, the report says that JP said JS was welcome to continue coaching as long as he was head coach. (Unless the news reports I read are wrong. I'm slowly reading the report first-hand, and I haven't reached that part yet.)

So why would PSU administrators be throwing JS a carrot to encourage early retirement for monetary reasons, while JP apparently was willing to provide him employment for as long as he desired it, with no apparent cost concern?

"Willing" and "preferred" are two different things. There were non-sexual questions about Sandusky's involvement with TSM prior to the Victim 6 incident.

There was also Jay Paterno. He was brought in, and any vacancies near the top (and Sandusky was right below that) could help advance his career.

IzzyBlanche
07-13-2012, 01:04 AM
Thanks, yes I did notice....so does it look like they were giving him the money to buy the land? IDK, it seems like the 2nd Mile with all its own millions would have enough to take care of that...I think this was personal money for JS....

IDK. I just know I think true coincidences are rare.

J. J. in Phila
07-13-2012, 01:05 AM
I'm well aware that these things happen at some places, but that doesn't answer my question about Sandusky. Since "Top university officials said they had never known Penn State "to provide this type of payment to a retiring employee."

What was that payment for?

I think that asked and answered. :)

IzzyBlanche
07-13-2012, 01:17 AM
"Willing" and "preferred" are two different things. There were non-sexual questions about Sandusky's involvement with TSM prior to the Victim 6 incident.

Thank you. But that doesn't answer my question of why, according to your theoretical scenario, PSU administrators wanted to dump Sandusky to save $--but Paterno didn't seem to have any such monetary concerns.

I'll take it a step further. In your scenario administrators are eager to bump Sally out because she's been there so long she makes way more than Mary, whom they could bring in off the street to make far less.

The idea that this is the logic when it comes to football, or any other big-time college sport, is just silly.

No one is going to try to get rid of Sally, the mastermind behind the defense of wildly successful "Linebacker U," because she makes half a million a year, so they can save money by hiring assistant coaching intern Mary who has no record to speak of.

If anything, they will happily pay Sally virtually anything more she asks, as long as her work continues to make a significant contribution to Linebacker U's winning seasons.

Reader
07-13-2012, 01:24 AM
Penn State is now faced with a horrible reality check

http://blog.pennlive.com/patriotnewssports/2012/07/post_198.html

LOS ANGELES— “Failed to protect a child predator from harming children for over a decade.”

This is Joe Paterno. This is Penn State.

“A striking lack of empathy for child-abuse victims.”

This is the one of the most revered leaders in the history of American sports. This is the school that blindly followed him.............

“In order to avoid the consequences of bad publicity, the most powerful leaders at the university repeatedly concealed critical facts relating to Sandusky’s child abuse,” the report said, adding that this inaction actually endorsed the serial child molester and “provided Sandusky with the very currency that enabled him to attract his victims.”

Read it and weep. Read it and heed. This is what happens when a university sports program becomes bigger than the university. This is what happens when a coach becomes more important than the ideals and values he is hired to coach. This is what happens when we are so blinded by the pursuit of fame and glory that we stop looking closely at the leaders charged with taking us there.............

The winningest Division 1 college football coach in history didn’t symbolize the best of sports leadership, but the worst.

The program he built on the motto of “Success With Honor” was really about “Success With Horror.”............

Even at the expense of the most common tenets of human decency, one of the greatest football coaches in history was intent on protecting his football team until his last pitiful breath. Shame on us if we’re not watching and learning.

In other Penn State news this week, it was announced that the university had collected $208.7 million in donations during the recently completed school year, the second-most in school history.

According to university spokesman David LeTorre, the donations “send a loud and distinct message.”

Sadly, they do.

J. J. in Phila
07-13-2012, 01:30 AM
Thank you. But that doesn't answer my question of why, according to your theoretical scenario, PSU administrators wanted to dump Sandusky to save $--but Paterno didn't seem to have any such monetary concerns.


Paterno is a coach; Curley was an administrator. They have different goals, hence Curley's concern about money.



No one is going to try to get rid of Sally, the mastermind behind the defense of wildly successful "Linebacker U," because she makes half a million a year, so they can save money by hiring assistant coaching intern Mary who has no record to speak of.


No, but that would explain the money. Paterno wasn't going to retire immediately, so why not bring in someone who might be his replacement or advance the replacement through the ranks.

From an administrative standpoint, I'm not seeing this as strange in the least.

Reader
07-13-2012, 01:33 AM
I think that asked and answered. :)

I'm glad you''re satisfied with that answer, I'm not, it just was about the arithmetic....what was it about Sandusky that they even agreed to give him a bonus to leave when this had never been done before? It's very fishy to me.....

IzzyBlanche
07-13-2012, 01:48 AM
Paterno is a coach; Curley was an administrator. They have different goals, hence Curley's concern about money.

Pshaw. I won't even address the numerous indicators that Curley, and all the other so-called high-ranking PSU officials, were JP's minions rather than the opposite. Nor the absurd idea that Curley's goal would be to save money at the possible expense of JP's goal of his football team's success.

OK, I guess I did address those things.

But anyway.

Name me one instance, just one, in the history of the world in which a college administrator wanted to get rid of a winning coach to save money on his/her salary.

The money brought in by a winning team would pay for that salary multiple times over. Which is why winning coaches make obscene salaries.



No, but that would explain the money. Paterno wasn't going to retire immediately, so why not bring in someone who might be his replacement or advance the replacement through the ranks.

From an administrative standpoint, I'm not seeing this as strange in the least.

Pshaw. A winning coach will retain his employment (and salary) whether or not he's a candidate for head coach, as long as the team continues to win.

costalpilot
07-13-2012, 02:27 AM
Actually, 1997 (the last season before the 1998 incident), they were 9 and 3, a very good year. 2000 was a losing season, but only 5 to 7, and it was their first losing season in 12 years.

I'm also not seeing how a former assistant coach being a child molester would hurt recruiting. This whole scandal hasn't been that damaging.
JJ with all due respect, plenty of observors who follow college football are seeing hiw this would have decimated the football program. in fact, even the observors who think that the NCAA should not get involved, beccause it has been a legal question, even ALL of them see how this would have negatively affected the football program.

and Freeh said, in his report today, that the reason the "leaders" covered this up was to protect the" football program from bad publicity."

you may keep saying you dont see how it could have affected the program all you want, and you probably will.

knowledgable football commentators nationwide DO see. They ALL see. and I'm beginning to change my mind about the NCAA. i am beginning to not be able to see how they can possibly look the other way and pretend they don't see.

I still wouldnt risk a guess as to what they might do, but they are going to have to weather a tremendous amount of negative publicity to not see how this abuse benefited the nittany lion football program. and I wonder if even they will be able to do it.

costalpilot
07-13-2012, 02:49 AM
but JJ isnt seeing it. and that is precisely why the football program at penn state has to be hammered.

they dont get it, even now.


shut it down. maybe then they will see.


NCAA Sanctions Won't Be Necessary; Penn State Is Already Dead (http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1256675-ncaa-sanctions-wont-be-necessary-penn-state-is-already-dead) (Bleacher Report)

Penn State deserves death penalty for Sandusky cover-up (http://blogs.ajc.com/jeff-schultz-blog/2012/07/12/penn-state-football-deserves-death-penalty-for-cover-up/) (Atlanta Journal Constitution)

If Penn State is serious, shut down football now (http://www.usatoday.com/sports/columnist/brennan/story/2012-07-12/paterno-penn-state-shut-down-football/56166544/1) (USA Today)

Penn State deserves death penalty for football, prison for officials (http://www.suntimes.com/sports/13733985-419/penn-state-deserves-death-penalty-for-football-prison-for-officials.html) (Chicago Sun-Times)

Penn State should shut down football program (http://www.bostonglobe.com/sports/2012/07/12/penn-state-should-shut-down-program/O6U5mLADVma5EAZSQAUA5K/story.html) (Boston Globe)

Penn State should get death penalty (http://msn.foxsports.com/collegefootball/story/penn-state-should-lose-football-privileges-dealth-penalty-in-wake-of-freeh-report-child-sex-abuse-071212) (Fox Sports)

Penn State should get the death penalty (http://nbcsports.msnbc.com/id/48126484/ns/sports-college_football/) (NBC Sports)

Jerry Sandusky should cost Penn State football, too (http://www.tennessean.com/article/20120625/COLUMNIST0202/306250015/David-Climer-Jerry-Sandusky-should-cost-Penn-State-football-too?odyssey=tab%7Ctopnews%7Ctext%7CFRONTPAGE&nclick_check=1) (Nashville Tennessean)

Penn State deserves death penalty (http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2012-06-23/sports/os-jerry-sandusky-conviction-diaz_1_death-penalty-jerry-sandusky-child-molestation) (Orlando Sentinel)

BrownRice
07-13-2012, 06:51 AM
Paterno's legacy may now be damaged beyond repair

http://centurylink.net/news/read.php?rip_id=%3CD9VVKBBO0%40news.ap.org%3E&ps=1013&page=1

[...]

"There's no way out of this to make it a good story. It's a shame," Benson said. "But we're being selfish saying it's a shame. It's a shame for these kids. Penn State will recover, these kids won't."............

BBM
One of the truest statements made regarding this.

BrownRice
07-13-2012, 06:55 AM
http://blog.pennlive.com/patriotnewssports/2012/07/post_199.html

Seriously, I'm going to scream. I need to stop reading local news comments. People are STILL supporting JP. I just don't get it. Unbelievable.

BrownRice
07-13-2012, 07:13 AM
I started reading back through Sara Ganim's early reporting (Back in 3/01) and love this lady. I think they should remove JP's statue and replace it with her!

DevilsPlayThing
07-13-2012, 07:16 AM
So Penn State hired a company to compile and release this Report. Talk about self sabotage.

BigCat
07-13-2012, 07:29 AM
I have no idea why ESPN paraded Matt Millen out continually yesterday to discuss the Freeh report. Penn Staters are simply incapable of discussing Paterno objectively. Millen might be the worse, considering he played for Paterno and Sandusky was his position coach.

In the below article a writer from the NY Daily News calls him out.

Matt Millen’s biased defense of Joe Paterno on ESPN indefensible

Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/i-team/matt-millen-biased-defense-joe-paterno-espn-indefensible-article-1.1113568#ixzz20V6RZw5U

Not only was Millen running interference for the late Mr. Paterno, he was playing viewers for morons. Paterno, according to the report, went ostrich while Sandusky was raping little boys. And Spanier didn’t blow his nose without getting Paterno’s permission.

For years, the college football establishment, which includes the media, has confidently reported that Paterno ran the show at Penn State. Allowing Sandusky to run wild, ruining lives of kids and families, must have been considered a small price to keep Paterno’s sainted image,and the university’s, intact.

Millen knows Spanier was Paterno’s personal bobblehead doll. To suggest to millions of viewers that Spanier could have stood up to Paterno at any point was disingenuous — and that’s being kind.

Millen, straight-faced, contended Paterno was running a “pristine program.” Maybe from the outside looking in. Yet the Freeh report concludes Paterno first knew about Sandusky’s deviance in 1998, which would certainly strip Paterno’s program of the “pristine” status Millen anointed it with.

“My opinion is he (Paterno) made a mistake. “… I’m going to believe the (Freeh) report. He (Paterno) made a mistake and it was compounded and it was over a course of time,” Millen said. “ What means something to me is what he (Paterno) stood for. And what he was. And the character part and the character side of what he was. And what he stood for was significant.

“It (the report) shows he was fallible,” Millen continued. “He made a mistake for whatever his reasons are. Is it spoiled? It’s absolutely spoiled but there is still a lot of good there.”


Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/i-team/matt-millen-biased-defense-joe-paterno-espn-indefensible-article-1.1113568#ixzz20V5rwSs2

And why do Penn Staters, and the Paterno family, need to keep telling us that Joe Pa was not perfect.

WE never thought he was perfect!

It's sad it took the worst sports scandal in US history to happen at their university before they came to that realization.

Tipstaff
07-13-2012, 08:27 AM
From the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette this morning (7/13/12)

Freeh Report is suitable template for civil suits, experts say
Penn State inquiry establishes 'culture of self-preservation'
July 13, 2012 12:26 am




By Moriah Balingit / Pittsburgh Post-Gazette
In no uncertain terms, Louis Freeh's team connected the dots between the horrific pattern of child sexual abuse perpetrated by one man, Jerry Sandusky, and a culture of self-preservation pervasive in the highest levels at Penn State University, attorneys for the victims said Thursday.

That, they said, may aid those victims seeking justice through civil litigation, some of whom have already indicated they will sue the university.

To read the complete article go to....
http://www.post-gazette.com/stories/local/state/freeh-report-is-suitable-template-for-civil-suits-experts-say-644552/#ixzz20VMCJKty

J. J. in Phila
07-13-2012, 08:37 AM
JJ with all due respect, plenty of observors who follow college football are seeing hiw this would have decimated the football program. in fact, even the observors who think that the NCAA should not get involved, beccause it has been a legal question, even ALL of them see how this would have negatively affected the football program.


Who? Something far worse and far more involving the football program happened, and the program was not decimated. 1998 more involved the football program, and there is no indicated in the Freeh report that the Big Four interfered. I'd expect them interfere in 1998; that one of the things I actually was looking at.

Remember, the Big Four knew about 1998, even Paterno. If they were worried about that, why not pressure the police, and the DA to bury it. We don't see that pressure.


I still wouldnt risk a guess as to what they might do, but they are going to have to weather a tremendous amount of negative publicity to not see how this abuse benefited the nittany lion football program. and I wonder if even they will be able to do it.

In 2001, this is a former coach, so that doesn't involve the football program. If they reported it, properly, what happens, regarding the NCAA.

1. McQueary, a coach assistant, sees abuse, and reports to his superior, Paterno. That happened.

2. Paterno gets the report and reports it to Curley. That happened.

3. Curley reports it to Schultz and Spanier (which happened, though possibly through Schultz). That happened.

4. They report it to DPW. That is what didn't happen.

The commentators are talking about the problem of not reporting the 2001 incident. There is no problem if they report it.

The damage to the football program was not done by Sandusky being a pervert. It was done by the Big Four by not reporting it. The problem, involving the football program, and Penn State in general, isn't that Sandusky abused a child in 2001. It was that the Big Four didn't report that abuse.

BetteDavisEyes
07-13-2012, 09:01 AM
Report on abuse scandal tarnishes Paterno legacy
By MARC LEVY and MICHAEL RUBINKAM, AP
4 hours ago

STATE COLLEGE, Pa. (AP) — A blistering report that claims Joe Paterno and other top Penn State officials concealed what they knew about Jerry Sandusky's sexual abuse of children may prove to be an indelible stain on the beloved coach's 61-year tenure at the school where he preached ``success with honor.''

Paterno's supporters are legion, though, and some insist the late coach got a raw deal from former FBI Director Louis Freeh, whose 267-page report on the Sandusky scandal Thursday asserted that Paterno and senior Penn State officials made a decision to protect Sandusky to avoid damaging the image of the school and its powerful football program.

Penn State's internal investigation into one of the worst scandals in sports history is unlikely to settle the debate about Paterno's culpability - even as it showed him to be more deeply involved in the university's response to 1998 and 2001 abuse complaints about Sandusky than previously thought...

http://xfinity.comcast.net/articles/sports-cfb/20120713/US-Penn.State-Abuse/?cid=hero_media

TxJan1971
07-13-2012, 09:02 AM
I have my own opinion on whether or not they should take down Joe Pa’s statue. Personally, I think they should keep it – exactly as it is – exactly where it is! Absolutely! Without a doubt. I wouldn’t even waste the money altering it in any way. I just think there needs to be “additional” statues “erected”.

I say PSU should agree to create a life size statue of Curley, Shultz and Spanier – but for symbolic purposes – their eyes should all be closed and perhaps a piece of duct tape positioned over each of their mouths – including Joe. (Hear no evil - see no evil - speak no evil)

Next, I think they should create 8 statutes of children – with their faces softened such that no distinguishing facial features can be seen – to symbolize that these children were virtually faceless/voiceless (At the time of the assaults)!

Finally, they need to create a life-size statue of Jerry – but he needs to be naked – with his outstretched hands at hip level containing soap! They can be discrete and not show any “privates” – but the message needs to be clear.

And while they are at it – they need to create a life size statue of McQueary, preferably next to a bronze locker – with McQueary’s mouth open in horror, his face demonstrating shock, and his hand up and extended to indicate he is slamming the locker door!

Next they need to “erect” a bronze wall with shower heads and place the bronze wall directly in front of Joe’s statue – his face to the shower head wall! I believe Joe already has one hand outstretched – sort of up in the air – and to save money – they could just leave the other hand where it is at his side. I think folks would get the message clear enough.

Right next to Joe – they should position the statues of Curley, Shultz and Spanier – all three lined up right next to Joe – all of them “in the shower” with their faces to the shower wall – just like Joe!

Behind the “four leaders” - they need to position the statue of naked Jerry – preferably the artist will be able to show Jerry’s natural smirk

Finally, they should position the statues of the 8 kids – preferably in front of the shower scene – and in front of the four leaders/shower wall scene – to symbolize that THEY are the most important part of this PSU tribute to greatness at Happy Valley.

High above the ENTIRE bronze sculpture display there should be a HUGE sign that is so symbolic of Happy Valley – it should read:

WE ARE - PENN STATE!

Another HUGE sign should be positioned on the ground and in front of ALL of them that should read: VICTIMS

After all is said and done, regardless of who did what or didn’t do what, they were ALL screwed in one way or another by Sandusky so they are equally “VICTIMS”.

I think one final addition would suffice: There should be a large sign made that can be plastered directly across the backsides of all four leaders: ADVOCATE FOR HORSEPLAY - GOT SCREWED BY JERRY

wfgodot
07-13-2012, 09:19 AM
Penn State could have achieved separation from the child-raper in their employ over a decade ago. But now there is no distance between the crime and the cover-up: PSU inaction allowed Sandusky, a predatory child rapist, to rape and rape again, and provided him access to campus. The action and the allowance are not separate things. They must be seen in the same light.

J. J. in Phila
07-13-2012, 10:03 AM
I'm to the point where I think the statue should be moved.

The campus is big and putting it in a less prominent spot is appropriate.

Maybe it should be near Old Main, where future administrators can look at it out of their windows, just as a reminder.

IzzyBlanche
07-13-2012, 10:09 AM
So Penn State hired a company to compile and release this Report. Talk about self sabotage.

I don't liken it to self-sabotage as much as to giving oneself a much-needed enema.

luvhockey
07-13-2012, 10:14 AM
I don't see the NCAA giving Penn State the death penalty. Only once has this been done and it was for a much smaller, much less significant school in SMU.
Penn State, 2 years ago was the 3rd highest revenue producing football program, second to only Texas and Notre Dame. That is a lot of money coming into the BIG10 network, national television and any other trickle down subsidiaries including all the other revenue sharing BIG10 universities.

I just don't see the NCAA giving the death penalty. I think the network, since Penn State was the cash cow would pursue legal action to recoup all the lost revenue.

Sorry if the above is a little disjointed. Just looking at a different perspective.
Would it be appropriate, yes but I just don't think it will happen. I believe they will be given some penalties but not total death.

BigCat
07-13-2012, 10:29 AM
I still don't follow JJ's point. The Penn State 4 covered up 2001 to avoid bad publicity, that was the conclusion of the Freeh report.

If they could have covered up 98, they would have. It's not like one of them reported JS to university police. It was out of their hands.

waltzingmatilda
07-13-2012, 10:37 AM
I'm to the point where I think the statue should be moved.

The campus is big and putting it in a less prominent spot is appropriate.

Maybe it should be near Old Main, where future administrators can look at it out of their windows, just as a reminder.

I could live with that. Personally, I prefer it to be moved off the grounds of PSU, where so many fine people have studied and worked. The actions of a handful do not reflect the majority at the University. Also, I feel leaving it there in front of Beaver stadium is like living in the past.

It is a new era in PSU history. The football team has a brand new coach and IMO, it would be disrespectful to the new coach and the survivors to leave it in it's current location.

While Paterno supporters may not understand or accept Joe's cupability in this scandal, and oppose moving it, stop and think for a moment the distaste that may be felt by fans of opposing teams who visit for games.

It is also a 'slap in the face' to the survivors, who are the real heroes here, for bravely testifying in a court of law, about horrific abuse BTW, against a MONSTER and helping to stop further abuse of innocent boys.

Lastly, noone can change the fact that JP was a part of the University. But that bronze doesn't deserve such a prominent place and his name should be removed from the library too. JP is dead, it's time to move forward.

JMO and all that jazz...

wm

Tipstaff
07-13-2012, 11:07 AM
I'm to the point where I think the statue should be moved.

The campus is big and putting it in a less prominent spot is appropriate.

Maybe it should be near Old Main, where future administrators can look at it out of their windows, just as a reminder.

J.J. has come around!!!:yourock:

cityslick
07-13-2012, 11:13 AM
I don't know what to think about the statue. On one hand you have it serving as a reminder to what was covered up, what wasn't followed up on. On the other hand you have a guy that basically made Penn State the university it is today. JP's influence goes way beyond football there. By taking the statue down, it does send a message that you are putting a lot of blame on JP for what happened, almost as much as JS and I don't think that's accurate or fair. There are a lot of people to blame, JP is just one part of it.

There still a bust of OJ Simpson in the Football Hall of Fame and I think most people can agree that what he did compared to JP is not in the same realm. I don't know, it's a conflicting argument.

waltzingmatilda
07-13-2012, 11:14 AM
I don't see the NCAA giving Penn State the death penalty. Only once has this been done and it was for a much smaller, much less significant school in SMU.
Penn State, 2 years ago was the 3rd highest revenue producing football program, second to only Texas and Notre Dame. That is a lot of money coming into the BIG10 network, national television and any other trickle down subsidiaries including all the other revenue sharing BIG10 universities.

I just don't see the NCAA giving the death penalty. I think the network, since Penn State was the cash cow would pursue legal action to recoup all the lost revenue.

Sorry if the above is a little disjointed. Just looking at a different perspective.
Would it be appropriate, yes but I just don't think it will happen. I believe they will be given some penalties but not total death.

No, it's not disjointed at all luvhockey. Mr.wm and I were discussing this NCAA subject last night. I partially agree with you. I think there will be some sanctions but will be surprised if PSU gets the death penalty for the upcoming season. But maybe next season. Has summer practice started yet, I wonder? It would upset scheduled games at this late date for NCAA to issue the death penalty. It's mid July already.

Mr.wm graduated from a B1G 10 university. His opinion is that this PSU scandal will force the NCAA to be more vigilant and tough on college athletics violations. Ncaa has an image to protect also, he said. I respect his opinion as he is a smart man and follows B1g 10 basketball. Time will tell I guess.

moo

wm

costalpilot
07-13-2012, 11:46 AM
this is a heartfelt reaction from a Penn State alumnus that makes one so very glad this did not happen at your own school but also reveals how it could only have happened at a very few schools. definitely worth a read:

http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/8160271/joe-paterno-legacy-penn-state-aftermath-freeh-report


Failed Experiment

The scandal at State College infects an entire system in the aftermath of the Freeh Report
By Michael Weinreb on July 12, 2012PRINT

Last November, as the worst month in my alma mater's history unfolded, a Penn State medical-school researcher named Craig Meyers went on the radio to detail a remarkable scientific discovery: He had discovered a potential cure for cancer. It went largely unnoticed, because Craig Meyers is a scientist and because no one associated with Penn State gave a good goddamn about science in that moment, because they were enveloped by football.

That's what we are left with now that former FBI director Louis Freeh's damning independent report on Penn State has been released: It is everything the lawyers and flacks and message-board apologists assured us it wasn't. It is a football scandal, it is a Penn State scandal, and it is a fundamental violation of the very Grand Experiment — of the balance between academics and athletics, of the notion that football can elevate a university rather than weigh it down, of the idea that men like Craig Meyers benefit from men like Joe Paterno — that the school had espoused since the 1960s. It is a betrayal of every academic advancement Penn State has made since Paterno became its head coach; it is a betrayal of all of us who came of age within Paterno's sphere of influence; and it is a betrayal, most of all, of those abused children who grew up as my neighbors, and who were ignored and then abandoned by their elders in apparent deference to the abuser himself




...........

costalpilot
07-13-2012, 11:48 AM
the statute should be left where it is but eye patches should be added to it.

IzzyBlanche
07-13-2012, 11:58 AM
I don't see the NCAA giving Penn State the death penalty. Only once has this been done and it was for a much smaller, much less significant school in SMU.


snipped for focus

However, it could be argued that being dealt the death penalty is one reason SMU is less significant today. At the time, though, it was up and coming.

From wikipedia:

"They posted a record of 55-14-1 and won three Southwest Conference titles. They nearly won their second national title in 1982."

Southern Methodist University football scandal - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

elainebenice
07-13-2012, 12:30 PM
I don't see the NCAA giving Penn State the death penalty. Only once has this been done and it was for a much smaller, much less significant school in SMU.
Penn State, 2 years ago was the 3rd highest revenue producing football program, second to only Texas and Notre Dame. That is a lot of money coming into the BIG10 network, national television and any other trickle down subsidiaries including all the other revenue sharing BIG10 universities.

I just don't see the NCAA giving the death penalty. I think the network, since Penn State was the cash cow would pursue legal action to recoup all the lost revenue.

Sorry if the above is a little disjointed. Just looking at a different perspective.
Would it be appropriate, yes but I just don't think it will happen. I believe they will be given some penalties but not total death.

The NCAA will never give another school the death penalty after what happened with SMU for numerous reasons, including revenue. That being said, I don't believe this situation is one where the death penalty would be an appropriate punishment, even if it was on the table. Obviously, what was allowed to happen here is unfathomable and those responsible should be punished. (yes, I said allowed b/c I believe after PSU was aware of the 1st incident, everything that Sandusky did after that time on PSU's campus could have been prevented) However, I don't believe that this very unusual situation (compared to those the NCAA usually deals with) is one where it would be appropriate for the NCAA to levy the death penalty or really even take any action before the criminal legal process is allowed to run its course regarding all involved parties. The first bite at the apple that is the PSU administrators should and will go to LE. Once that process is completed, that would be the appropriate time for the NCAA to come in and address any compliance issues involving NCAA regs. I'm sure they have already begun their investigation and will be prepared to announce their findings/possible sanctions as soon as the legal process has run its course. I would expect them to address the obvious "lack of institutional control issue," while taking into consideration the changes PSU has already made to address any compliance issues. Since basically all (I hope/assume) parties who had anything substantive to do with this situation are no longer employed by PSU, I think it would be extremely overreaching and unfair to the current students/players/employees for the NCAA to levy the death penalty at this point. That's not meant to be seen as me having a sympathetic molecule in my body for PSU regarding anything that may happen to them as a result of Sandusky, but simply a fair/unbiased (as much as is possible) assessment of the NCAA's appropriate role in this particular situation.

TxJan1971
07-13-2012, 12:35 PM
Good article, "Good Riddance, Joe Paterno" by Dr. Keith Ablow who has treated victims of sexual abuse:


Mr. Paterno may have known what it took to win on a football field. He may have known something about courage when facing big men running full tilt toward you, intent on stopping you, but he apparently knew exactly nothing about moral courage, nor how to protect those among us who really need protection. It’s time that we made that distinction plain.

Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2012/07/13/good-riddance-joe-paterno/#ixzz20WMpQa3J

elainebenice
07-13-2012, 12:35 PM
snipped for focus

However, it could be argued that being dealt the death penalty is one reason SMU is less significant today. At the time, though, it was up and coming.

From wikipedia:

"They posted a record of 55-14-1 and won three Southwest Conference titles. They nearly won their second national title in 1982."

Southern Methodist University football scandal - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southern_Methodist_University_football_scandal)

You just hit the nail on the head. SMU was decimated by the death penalty and most likely will NEVER recover, at least never get back to the place their program was at the time it received the death penalty. When they got the death penalty they were far from a small, insignificant school/football program, they were among the elite. This crushing impact that will most likely never be overcome (at least in our lifetimes) is the reason the NCAA will never again give another school the death penalty.

al66pine
07-13-2012, 12:49 PM
The Paterno family's statement Thursday “...The idea that any sane, responsible adult would
knowingly cover up for a child predator is impossible to accept....”

http://blog.pennlive.com/patriotnewssports/2012/07/post_198.html
-------------------------------------------------------------------

Is stmt saying the idea of cover-up is "impossible to accept" meaning
-- it did not happen and could not have happened, or
-- nobody wd hv accepted cover up.

I do not find it impossible to accept that a sane (ostensibly)
responsible (ostensibly) adult, e.g., JerSan, would
knowingly be a child predator, so I can accept the idea of a knowing coverup by...

... a or one sane (ostensibly), responsible (ostensibly) adult, and
... multiple sane (ostensibly), responsible (ostensibly) adults.
Especially when doing so protects or furthers their interests,
whether ---
---solely their own individual interests, such as continued employment or
---a shared or collective interest such as, oh, say, univ. image generally, or football program and/or head coach specifically.

Was JoPa family's (rhetorical?) question asking listeners/readers about cover up by ---
---JoPa,
---other PennSt officials, or
---larger group of people.

Some adroit wordsmithing in the stmt.

JMO.

Reader
07-13-2012, 12:51 PM
Vicki Triponey definitely had a lot to say, but she brought some baggage with her that may have discredited some of her opinions. I don't have the links at the ready, but there were several articles posted in the PSU student newspaper, The Daily Collegian, when she left that were very critical of the culture she brought to the office. None of the comments seemed to have anything to do with the athletic department, but more about how, for no clear reason, she disbanded several student organizations that gave students a voice in the University, and was responsible for closing the student-operated radio station.

The feeling at the time seemed to be that she was very out-of-touch with student affairs, was hard to work with, and headstrong; no wonder she clashed with Paterno, who was also notoriously stubborn and, as we have seen, very protective of his turf.

IMO, Ms. Triponey is an unsung hero in the background of this football/child abuse scandal at Penn. State. I imagine she had to be tough and confrontational in order to fight the cover up culture that was being nurtured at the school and which is the basis for this scandal, according to the Freeh report. She lost but if she had not and had been able to penetrate the cover up of some of the cases she tried to work on, maybe, just maybe it would have shown a light on other things too. Penn State made a huge mistake in letting her go it is clear to me since she was the ONLY one in the whole school who had the gumption to stand up to Paterno and his cowardly cronies.

BBM - 'very protective of his turf' is such a tame way of describing what he was doing....concealing and lying about child sexual abuse on 'his turf', his kingdom, for 14 years to protect his god almighty football progam, IMO....

IzzyBlanche
07-13-2012, 12:52 PM
snipped for focus

I think it would be extremely overreaching and unfair to the current students/players/employees for the NCAA to levy the death penalty at this point.

This is the argument made opposing any NCAA punishment for any school. There's no way the NCAA can punish a school for anything without punishing players and others who weren't involved in the infractions.

To use just one of many examples, none of the USC players who have been ineligible for bowl games for the past two years had anything to do with Reggie Bush's parents' housing arrangements.

So by that argument, the NCAA should never punish any school for anything.

Just jumping off your post. I'm not arguing that the NCAA should give PSU the death penalty.

waltzingmatilda
07-13-2012, 12:57 PM
this is a heartfelt reaction from a Penn State alumnus that makes one so very glad this did not happen at your own school but also reveals how it could only have happened at a very few schools. definitely worth a read:

http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/8160271/joe-paterno-legacy-penn-state-aftermath-freeh-report


Failed Experiment

The scandal at State College infects an entire system in the aftermath of the Freeh Report
By Michael Weinreb on July 12, 2012PRINT

Last November, as the worst month in my alma mater's history unfolded, a Penn State medical-school researcher named Craig Meyers went on the radio to detail a remarkable scientific discovery: He had discovered a potential cure for cancer. It went largely unnoticed, because Craig Meyers is a scientist and because no one associated with Penn State gave a good goddamn about science in that moment, because they were enveloped by football.

That's what we are left with now that former FBI director Louis Freeh's damning independent report on Penn State has been released: It is everything the lawyers and flacks and message-board apologists assured us it wasn't. It is a football scandal, it is a Penn State scandal, and it is a fundamental violation of the very Grand Experiment — of the balance between academics and athletics, of the notion that football can elevate a university rather than weigh it down, of the idea that men like Craig Meyers benefit from men like Joe Paterno — that the school had espoused since the 1960s. It is a betrayal of every academic advancement Penn State has made since Paterno became its head coach; it is a betrayal of all of us who came of age within Paterno's sphere of influence; and it is a betrayal, most of all, of those abused children who grew up as my neighbors, and who were ignored and then abandoned by their elders in apparent deference to the abuser himself




...........

((((coastalpilot))))

Reader
07-13-2012, 01:13 PM
I'm to the point where I think the statue should be moved.

The campus is big and putting it in a less prominent spot is appropriate.

Maybe it should be near Old Main, where future administrators can look at it out of their windows, just as a reminder.

You are not alone:


Posted on Fri, Jul. 13, 2012

READER POLL


Should Penn State remove its statue of Joe Paterno?



Yes. Paterno should not be honored in that way.

2589 (73.7%)


No. He was still a great football coach and generous donor to the school.

925 (26.3%)


Total votes = 3514


http://www.philly.com/philly/polls/162302546.html?c=r

Reader
07-13-2012, 01:41 PM
How Penn State officials buried suspicions about Jerry Sandusky

http://www.philly.com/philly/news/20120713_How_Penn_State_officials_buried_suspicion s.html

In May 1998, Gary Schultz scribbled two words that in hindsight look chilling.

"Other children?" he wrote............

Schultz's handwritten notes were among the most damning evidence disclosed Thursday in the long-awaited report on what the most powerful men at Penn State, including former football coach Joe Paterno and president Graham B. Spanier, did about signs that Sandusky was sexually abusing boys.

Its conclusion: Not much.

Instead, the team of investigators headed by former FBI Director Louis Freeh found a paper trail suggesting that Paterno, Schultz, Spanier, and then-athletic director Timothy Curley discussed and worried about - but ultimately ignored - suspicions in order to avoid scandal, a decision that effectively allowed Sandusky to assault more children............

"The evidence clearly shows, in my view, an active agreement to conceal," Freeh said during a news conference at a Philadelphia hotel.............

Curley and Schultz are awaiting trial next year on charges they failed to report Sandusky's 2001 assault on the second boy and later lied to a grand jury about it. Sources have said they also expect Spanier to be charged.........

A month after it started, campus police closed the 1998 investigation and stashed the report in a file labeled "administrative information."

Schultz was relieved, according to his files. "I think the matter has been appropriately investigated and I hope it is now behind us," he told Spanier and Curley in an e-mail, the report says.

Freeh said he was struck that none of the four men interviewed Sandusky about the report, "including the coach, who was a few steps away from his office."

At his news conference, Freeh walked a tightrope in describing Paterno. He said the coach left a "terrific" legacy but also might have made the worst mistake of his life.

"The facts are the facts," Freeh said. "There's a whole host of evidence here and we're saying the reasonable conclusion from that evidence is that he was an integral part of this active conspiracy to conceal. I regret that, based on the damage it does, obviously, to his legacy."...........

Spanier later told Freeh's investigators he meant it was "humane" to explain to Sandusky the reason they were taking steps against him.

According to the report, Curley told a lawyer for the Second Mile soon afterward that "publicity issues" were the reason Sandusky could no longer bring children on campus............Despite being copied on the 1998 e-mails, Spanier told investigators that "the subject matter of a university employee in a shower with a child had never come up before" 2001. ...............

Attorney General Linda Kelly said the report would not impact her office's investigations or [B]the forthcoming prosecutions.

"The Freeh report should prove helpful to decisionmakers, the Penn State community, and the public at large in understanding how this disturbing situation developed, as well as how to prevent it from being repeated in the future," she said.

More at link.....

wfgodot
07-13-2012, 02:28 PM
Jason Whitlock at Fox Sports thinks outside the box, this time probing the role of sexism in the scandal:
---
What I do believe is you could scan the globe and it would be impossible to find four women who climbed the leadership ladder within a major institution who would conspire to protect a child molester. A group of women wouldn’t sympathize with a molester. They wouldn’t fret about how to “humanely” treat an adult who couldn’t control his criminal and sick sexual urges while ignoring the welfare of kids. Women wouldn’t understand.
---
the whole column here: Sexism played role in Penn St. horror (http://msn.foxsports.com/collegefootball/story/all-male-hierarchy-sexism-played-role-in-penn-state-joe-paterno-jerry-sandusky-cover-up-071212)

costalpilot
07-13-2012, 02:44 PM
Jason Whitlock at Fox Sports thinks outside the box, this time probing the role of sexism in the scandal:

the whole column here: Sexism played role in Penn St. horror (http://msn.foxsports.com/collegefootball/story/all-male-hierarchy-sexism-played-role-in-penn-state-joe-paterno-jerry-sandusky-cover-up-071212)

wlock is always ready to blame anything on whatever ism he might conjur up. he specializes in finding ism's. he might have a point here, but so what, it was four men. i'm surprised he didnt say, "four white men" but that might be taking it too far even for him

oh and I note the two bot's most promiment at the press conference were> 1. a black man, and 2. a womanism...and that Freeh indicted the board as well as the four leaders for not doing its job and for helping create the atmosphere that allowed the coverup and enabling to flourish.

wfgodot
07-13-2012, 02:47 PM
wlock is always ready to blame anything on whatever ism he might conjur up. he specializes in finding ism's. he might have a point here, but so what, it was four men. i'm surprised he didnt say, "four white men" but that might be taking it too far even for him
Couldn't disagree more. Your criticisms seem to jerk at the same knee as many of his other detractors. I've read Jason since his early days at the Kansas City Star, and such criticisms show only intellectual laziness and Twitter-level thought.

costalpilot
07-13-2012, 03:07 PM
Couldn't disagree more. Your criticisms seem to jerk at the same knee as many of his other detractors. I've read Jason since his early days at the Kansas City Star, and such criticisms show only intellectual laziness and Twitter-level thought.

i dont twitter. And i fail to see how an observation on my part might be categorized as "intellectual laziness". It makes no sense to me how something I have observed over the years about Whitlock could accurately be described as laziness. It could be wrong, but its not. But I do like the zing in your pretenious dismissals.

elainebenice
07-13-2012, 03:27 PM
This is the argument made opposing any NCAA punishment for any school. There's no way the NCAA can punish a school for anything without punishing players and others who weren't involved in the infractions.

To use just one of many examples, none of the USC players who have been ineligible for bowl games for the past two years had anything to do with Reggie Bush's parents' housing arrangements.

So by that argument, the NCAA should never punish any school for anything.

Just jumping off your post. I'm not arguing that the NCAA should give PSU the death penalty.

Fair point, but I'm also not saying there should be no punishment, just that there should be no death penalty. Also, in almost all other cases, including USC, most of the school's administration/athletic dept personnel was the same for the period of time the school was under sanctions as it was when the infractions occurred and in many cases some, if not all, of the coaching staff remained. There will always be the problem with the kids who have to deal with the punishment usually weren't even on campus when the infractions occurred, but that's something that can't be avoided due to the fact that they only have 4 years of eligibility. In this situation, none of the people on any level who were involved in the actions that would bring punishment are still at PSU, at least none of the people with culpability or any oversight obligations. I don't think they are still there anyway, but I continue to be surprised at PSU's actions in this case so it wouldn't surprise me to find out there are some leftovers.

gitana1
07-13-2012, 03:47 PM
I hope this report finally clears up any "confusion" there may have been regarding Paterno and his cronies' responsibility to the young children abused by Sandusky during their watch.

It was clear to me before and it is even clearer to me now: JoePa and his friends did not do their job. They shirked their responsibility, morally, ethically, as leaders AND legally, to take decisive action when the first reports of Sandusky's "romps" with young boys were made.

I am heartsick about this. Football was simply more important than a little child's life.

gitana1
07-13-2012, 04:05 PM
Jason Whitlock at Fox Sports thinks outside the box, this time probing the role of sexism in the scandal:

the whole column here: Sexism played role in Penn St. horror (http://msn.foxsports.com/collegefootball/story/all-male-hierarchy-sexism-played-role-in-penn-state-joe-paterno-jerry-sandusky-cover-up-071212)

Whitlock is not probing the role of sexism. Instead, he himself is expressing a sexist view, IMO.

I understand, somewhat the sentiments you quoted. Because I have mostly believed that women are inherit nurturers. We protect. Our inborn job is to ensure the survival of the species so we are alert for danger to children.

However, it is my above-stated belief, actually and Whitlock's argument (that these men protected Sandusky out of an innate understanding of a man's sexual urges), that is sexist. Sexism didn't play a role in what happened. It is the argument as to why it happened that is sexist.

In reality, there are plenty of men, real men, who would never excuse or justify or brush off sexual abuse of children due to their subconscious identification with Sandusky's inability to control his urges. Really, that's kind of a horrible thing to say - that men are less likely to report such abuse because they understand out of control sexual urges. What?

And my own belief in women's innate need to nurture and protect is disproved every day as "mother" after "mother" allows some man to beat, rape and murder her child.

So I don't think sexism played a role in this horrific cover-up but I do think it may play a role in justifying or excusing it.

J. J. in Phila
07-13-2012, 04:27 PM
I still don't follow JJ's point. The Penn State 4 covered up 2001 to avoid bad publicity, that was the conclusion of the Freeh report.

If they could have covered up 98, they would have. It's not like one of them reported JS to university police. It was out of their hands.

First, they didn't know about the 1998 incident, until the police reported it. There is no evidence that they tried to influence RFG regarding it. Anything that goes back to 1998, and the answer is, **It was reported and investigated to the DA and DPW. They made the decisions.**

2001, Sandusky is no longer part of the football program. Yes, it's a bit of an embarrassment, like a graduated player being charged with a crime committed after he graduated. It doesn't reflect on the football program.

Now, I'm thinking, could it somehow involve TSM? They had ties to PSU and Sandusky was active in it, and part of the leadership.

Reader
07-13-2012, 04:33 PM
I'm to the point where I think the statue should be moved.

The campus is big and putting it in a less prominent spot is appropriate.

Maybe it should be near Old Main, where future administrators can look at it out of their windows, just as a reminder.

Agree...but even if they move it I like the idea that was in one of the articles I posted yesterday:

Right next to it, university officials should erect another figure in bronze: a young boy crying out in anguish and being coldly ignored.

That would be a reminder that could not be ignored.

Reader
07-13-2012, 05:50 PM
Legal experts say Paterno could have faced charges

http://www.centurylink.net/news/read.php?id=19003757&ps=1011&srce=news_class&action=5&lang=en&_LT=UNLC_USNWU00L5_UNEWS

HARRISBURG, Pa. (AP) — If he were alive today, Joe Paterno — the coach who stood for so long for character and integrity both on and off the football field — could be looking at charges such as child endangerment, perjury and conspiracy.

Legal experts said emails and other evidence in the Penn State investigative report released Thursday suggest that Paterno may have misled a grand jury when asked when he first heard about Jerry Sandusky's misconduct, and show that Paterno and other university officials put boys in danger with their failure to report sexual abuse allegations against Sandusky more than a decade ago.

Duquesne University law professor Wes Oliver said the report by former FBI Director Louis Freeh reads like a prosecution case for a child endangerment charge against Paterno, then-President Graham Spanier, athletic director Tim Curley and now-retired vice president Gary Schultz. Oliver noted that a former top official in the Philadelphia Archdiocese was convicted of that charge in June for allowing a suspected pedophile priest to be around children.

"If you look at what happened here, it's very clear that they were aware that they had a pedophile on their campus," Oliver said.

Will Spade, a former Philadelphia prosecutor who worked on a grand jury investigation of priests about a decade ago, agreed: "Spanier, Paterno, Schultz and Curley are arguably responsible for endangering all of those kids that were abused later."

More at link.....

LNL
07-13-2012, 05:55 PM
Wonder what ole Dottie thinks about all this and if she is expecting her season tickets to the Nittany Lion Club this season?

BigCat
07-13-2012, 06:00 PM
First, they didn't know about the 1998 incident, until the police reported it. There is no evidence that they tried to influence RFG regarding it. Anything that goes back to 1998, and the answer is, **It was reported and investigated to the DA and DPW. They made the decisions.**

2001, Sandusky is no longer part of the football program. Yes, it's a bit of an embarrassment, like a graduated player being charged with a crime committed after he graduated. It doesn't reflect on the football program.

Now, I'm thinking, could it somehow involve TSM? They had ties to PSU and Sandusky was active in it, and part of the leadership.

That's it. You said it, it would have been a bit of an embarrassement. The Penn State 4 enabled a child predator to avoid a bit of an embarrassment. It difficult to wrap one's mind around that kind of evil, but that's what were dealing with here.

That was the conclusion of the Freeh report. (And this is, after all, the Freeh report thread.)

What are you suggesting? Freeh was wrong? Crooked? What exactly?

al66pine
07-13-2012, 06:25 PM
Curious about the timing of the release of the Freeh Rpt.

Post JerSan conviction. Pre-JerSan sentencing. Coincidence?
What effect, if any, will this rpt, have on JerSan sentencing? Of course, no official effect.
Judge-imposed sentencing, I take it?

Had Bd/Tee's set deadline for report completion?
IIRC, initially, arrangement was that B/T wd be able to preview a draft, before final release.
If so, did they? Could B/T's preview or reactions hv influenced rpt-release timing?

Could release timing hv/bn influcenced by upcoming fall elections?

Could rpt release timing affect other crim investigations & proceedings?

TIA to the many knowledgeable and local folks commenting here.

BigCat
07-13-2012, 06:32 PM
Here's a column from one of the top 2 or 3 sportswriters, in my opinion, Rick Reilly.

The sins of the father

What a stooge I was.

I talked about Paterno's "true legacy" in all of this. Here's his true legacy: Paterno let a child molester go when he could've stopped him. He let him go and then lied to cover his sinister tracks. He let a rapist go to save his own recruiting successes and fundraising pitches and big-fish-small-pond hide.

Here's a legacy for you. Paterno's cowardice and ego and fears allowed Sandusky to molest at least eight more boys in the years after that 1998 incident -- Victims 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 8, 9 and 10. Just to recap: By not acting, a grown man failed to protect eight boys from years of molestation, abuse and self-loathing, all to save his program the embarrassment. The mother of Victim 1 is "filled with hatred toward Joe Paterno," the victim's lawyer says. "She just hates him, and reviles him." Can you blame her?

What a sap I was.

I hope Penn State loses civil suits until the walls of the accounting office cave in. I hope that Spanier, Schultz and Curley go to prison for perjury. I hope the NCAA gives Penn State the death penalty it most richly deserves. The worst scandal in college football history deserves the worst penalty the NCAA can give. They gave it to SMU for winning without regard for morals. They should give it to Penn State for the same thing. The only difference is, at Penn State they didn't pay for it with Corvettes. They paid for it with lives.

What a chump I was.

I tweeted that, yes, Paterno should be fired, but that he was, overall, "a good and decent man." I was wrong. Good and decent men don't do what Paterno did. Good and decent men protect kids, not rapists. And to think Paterno comes from "father" in Italian.

This throws a can of black paint on anything anybody tells me about Paterno from here on in. "No NCAA violations in all those years." I believe it. He was great at hiding stuff. "He gave $4 million to the library." In exchange for what? "He cared about kids away from the football field." No, he didn't. Not all of them. Not when it really mattered.


http://m.espn.go.com/wireless/story?storyId=8162972

J. J. in Phila
07-13-2012, 06:35 PM
That's it. You said it, it would have been a bit of an embarrassement. The Penn State 4 enabled a child predator to avoid a bit of an embarrassment. It difficult to wrap one's mind around that kind of evil, but that's what were dealing with here.

Slightly embarrassing, but not enough of a scandal to endanger anything, if reported. It only becomes a problem if it is covered up.

That was the conclusion of the Freeh report. (And this is, after all, the Freeh report thread.)

What are you suggesting? Freeh was wrong? Crooked? What exactly?

I think we are missing something. It is virtual insanity to risk that much over some very minor embarrassment.

LNL
07-13-2012, 06:51 PM
Here's a column from one of the top 2 or 3 sportswriters, in my opinion, Rick Reilly.
What a great column.

Think Victim #1's mother and all other parents of one of these kids deserve settlements also. It is an outrage that this was allowed to continue unabated.

Parents have to live with this for the rest of their lives also. Sad, sad, sad.

Reader
07-13-2012, 09:27 PM
Curious about the timing of the release of the Freeh Rpt.

Post JerSan conviction. Pre-JerSan sentencing. Coincidence?
What effect, if any, will this rpt, have on JerSan sentencing? Of course, no official effect.
Judge-imposed sentencing, I take it?

Had Bd/Tee's set deadline for report completion?
IIRC, initially, arrangement was that B/T wd be able to preview a draft, before final release.
If so, did they? Could B/T's preview or reactions hv influenced rpt-release timing?

Could release timing hv/bn influcenced by upcoming fall elections?

Could rpt release timing affect other crim investigations & proceedings?

TIA to the many knowledgeable and local folks commenting here.

Not local, but I don't think the Freeh report will influence JS's sentencing....the judge has his legal guidelines to follow, there will be a report from probation, and the victims are supposed to be there to give statements I understand. JS also has to be evaluated to see if he is a
sexually violent predator and that might make a difference.

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Penn State Sandusky Trial #12 (GUILTY-post verdict discussion)


As far as I know there was not a deadline from the BOT and the report was released to all parties including the public and BOT by Freeh at the same time, 9am on Thurs. on a special website.

Can't help with Penn. politics, lol...help from locals?

The AG made a statement that the report will be helpful to the school and community in making needed changes (close) but their investigations for future prosecutions continue. From me: Spanier!
Freeh did say his group shared information with the AG.

Reader
07-13-2012, 09:37 PM
First, they didn't know about the 1998 incident, until the police reported it. There is no evidence that they tried to influence RFG regarding it. Anything that goes back to 1998, and the answer is, **It was reported and investigated to the DA and DPW. They made the decisions.**

2001, Sandusky is no longer part of the football program. Yes, it's a bit of an embarrassment, like a graduated player being charged with a crime committed after he graduated. It doesn't reflect on the football program.

Now, I'm thinking, could it somehow involve TSM? They had ties to PSU and Sandusky was active in it, and part of the leadership.

BBM - well, Freeh could not get to TSM but I really hope the AG with their subpeona powers is able to get into their files and get testimony from the CEO and Courtney among others...wouldn't be surprised if there are more charges involving TSM and JS's involvement with the kids there with their knowledge...need Pensfan here....lol

BigCat
07-13-2012, 11:17 PM
First, they didn't know about the 1998 incident, until the police reported it. There is no evidence that they tried to influence RFG regarding it. Anything that goes back to 1998, and the answer is, **It was reported and investigated to the DA and DPW. They made the decisions.**

**Respectfully shortened**

I meant to adress this part earlier but I forgot. Pages 42 and 43 of the report address how the 98 incident was reported. Victim 6's mother reported Sandusky to Schreffler around 11am on May 4th. Schreffler interviewed the boy and the psychologist who informed the mother to report the incident and then he contacted CYS. That afternoon he called Karen Arnold directly because he did not want to "have to worry about Old Main sticking their nose in the investigation." (a direct quote of Schreffler)

It would have been impossible to cover up the incident with all those people aware of the allegation and, yet, Schreffler still felt the need to go directly to the prosecutor because he feared interference.

So my point is, if the could have covered up 98, they would have.

JMO

J. J. in Phila
07-13-2012, 11:30 PM
I meant to adress this part earlier but I forgot. Pages 42 and 43 of the report address how the 98 incident was reported. Victim 6's mother reported Sandusky to Schreffler around 11am on May 4th. Schreffler interviewed the boy and the psychologist who informed the mother to report the incident and then he contacted CYS. That afternoon he called Karen Arnold directly because he did not want to "have to worry about Old Main sticking their nose in the investigation." (a direct quote of Schreffler)

It would have been impossible to cover up the incident with all those people aware of the allegation and, yet, Schreffler still felt the need to go directly to the prosecutor because he feared interference.

So my point is, if the could have covered up 98, they would have.



It would make perfect (though disgusting) sense to suppress the 1998 incident of Victim 6. Sandusky was still with the program. It would have been 20 times more damaging than 2001 (Victim 2).

The thing is, there is no evidence they ever tried to do that. Nobody said, **I talked to Gricar,** or **Ray will kill this for us,** from the Freeh report.

Even suppressing 2001 would make somewhat more sense, if they were protecting a hypothetical 1998 cover up.

JBean
07-13-2012, 11:42 PM
you are here in this new forum:

Jerry Sandusky-Cover Up at Penn State - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community


Currently on this thread:

Penn State Sandusky-Report of the Special Investigative Counsel - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community


Please make a note of it.

StellarsJay
07-14-2012, 12:36 AM
Big Cat said "It would have been impossible to cover up the incident with all those people aware of the allegation and, yet, Schreffler still felt the need to go directly to the prosecutor because he feared interference.

So my point is, if the could have covered up 98, they would have."

And JJ replied:

It would make perfect (though disgusting) sense to suppress the 1998 incident of Victim 6. Sandusky was still with the program. It would have been 20 times more damaging than 2001 (Victim 2).

The thing is, there is no evidence they ever tried to do that. Nobody said, **I talked to Gricar,** or **Ray will kill this for us,** from the Freeh report.

Even suppressing 2001 would make somewhat more sense, if they were protecting a hypothetical 1998 cover up.

But it was covered up, at the College Police level. Freeh (p35) says that in 1998 Thomas Harmon (Sandusky’s old neighbour) is Director of University Police reporting to the Assistant Vice President of Police and Public Safety; in April 1998 the AVP position was eliminated, leaving Harmon top dog.
On May 3, Sandusky molests Victim 6 in the shower and the child's mother calls police- unfortunately it is the University police under Harmon, who now is reporting straight to Schultz. (Exhibits 2C, 2D) Despite promising work by Schreffler the Chambers psychological report is left out, the investigation is dropped, and the report is (mis)filed as an administrative file. The Freeh report comments that more experienced police might have gotten more out of Jerry.
Freeh P 20: Harmon emails Scultz- "We're going to hold off making any crime log entry. At this point in time I can justify that decision because of the lack of clear evidence of a crime."
Harmon used to be Jerry's neighbour, but I doubt if he would have scr*d this investigation so thoroughly without believing that was the way it was wanted.

J. J. in Phila
07-14-2012, 12:55 AM
Big



But it was covered up, at the College Police level. Freeh (p35) says that in 1998 Thomas Harmon (Sandusky’s old neighbour) is Director of University Police reporting to the Assistant Vice President of Police and Public Safety; in April 1998 the AVP position was eliminated, leaving Harmon top dog.
On May 3, Sandusky molests Victim 6 in the shower and the child's mother calls police- unfortunately it is the University police under Harmon, who now is reporting straight to Schultz. (Exhibits 2C, 2D) Despite promising work by Schreffler the Chambers psychological report is left out, the investigation is dropped, and the report is (mis)filed as an adminsitrative file. The Freeh report comments that more experienced police might have gotten more out of Jerry.



But it wasn't covered up at the DA's Office level. Chambers filed a report with the DPW hotline. Schreffler filed everything with the DA's Office. The Chambers' Report was sent to the DA's Office, according to Schreffler's report. It was actually sent there before Seasock became involved.

Victim 6 is the more devastating case to Penn State, especially the football program, because, in 1998, Sandusky is actually working there. So, why didn't the Big Four try to stop LE in 1998, and why do they seem more concerned about the less damaging 2001 incident?

StellarsJay
07-14-2012, 01:03 AM
The Chambers' Report was sent to the DA's Office, according to Schreffler's report. It was actually sent there before Seasock became involved.

Thanks, JJ, I missed that. So who should have passed it on to Lauro?

JodyMT
07-14-2012, 01:07 AM
This whole case makes me sick to my stomach. From that child rapist Sandusky, to everyone who helped cover up what he was doing, all for the sake of saving their reputations and bringing in alumni donations and such.

Every last one of them should burn.

J. J. in Phila
07-14-2012, 01:14 AM
The Chambers' Report was sent to the DA's Office, according to Schreffler's report. It was actually sent there before Seasock became involved.

Thanks, JJ, I missed that. So who should have passed it on to Lauro?

I'm not sure, but I would think that the DA's Office should have made sure that it was done. Follow up.

IzzyBlanche
07-14-2012, 01:43 AM
Slightly embarrassing, but not enough of a scandal to endanger anything, if reported. It only becomes a problem if it is covered up.



I think we are missing something. It is virtual insanity to risk that much over some very minor embarrassment.

If I am understanding you correctly, you are saying that there has to be more to the 2001 coverup than avoiding minor embarrassment.

Yes, there is: if the 2001 incident had been made public, undoubtedly the 1998 incident would have come to light at that time as well, and there would have been major embarrassment over the fact that they all knew about 1998 but continued to let Sandusky have access to PSU facilities, with kids, instead of erring on the side of caution.

Even though no charges were filed, at the very least--as we have seen--there is a gigantic ICK factor associated with a grown middle-aged man showering with a young boy not his son or other very close relative. They understandably would have feared major fallout for their inaction after 1998.

If I am not understanding you correctly, then never mind. :seeya:

otto
07-14-2012, 01:55 AM
It looks like Paterno knew as early as 1998, but participated in discussions regarding notification of proper authorities and chose to remain silent. A couple of years later, there was another related incident. Again, it was decided that silence would protect the reputation of the football team and thus the academic institution.

I guess they were all dirty ... and more, no doubt. I think the school should withdraw from the football association for at least a year while they sort this out. If Sandusky was abusing boys on the teams, how deep does it go. We all know that victims of abuse often become the perps.

Tipstaff
07-14-2012, 08:03 AM
Penn State raises tuition 2.4% and former Penn Stater and Pittsburgh Steeler questions the integrity of the Freeh Report. Per the Post Gazette.

Matt Freed/Post-Gazette

Franco Harris: "A lot of people are taking it as gospel, that this is the truth. I don't think there's absolute truth to the Freeh Report. There's no way it can be unless you have [former president Graham Spanier, Curley and Schultz] as part of that."


Read more: http://www.post-gazette.com/stories/sports/psu/harris-has-his-doubts-but-is-willing-to-listen-to-findings-644673/#ixzz20b7bDwB7

J. J. in Phila
07-14-2012, 08:27 AM
If I am understanding you correctly, you are saying that there has to be more to the 2001 coverup than avoiding minor embarrassment.


I'm saying it would make more sense to move heaven and earth to cover up 1998 than 2001. Yet, though the Big Four knew about 1998, there is no evidence they tried. The decisions there were made off campus.

Yes, there is: if the 2001 incident had been made public, undoubtedly the 1998 incident would have come to light at that time as well, and there would have been major embarrassment over the fact that they all knew about 1998 but continued to let Sandusky have access to PSU facilities, with kids, instead of erring on the side of caution.


Well, in 2001, they could have said, **1998 was handled by law enforcement. They didn't find anything.** They could say that, if they reported Victim 2 and charges were filed.

Even though no charges were filed, at the very least--as we have seen--there is a gigantic ICK factor associated with a grown middle-aged man showering with a young boy not his son or other very close relative. They understandably would have feared major fallout for their inaction after 1998.


Well, that's just it. The DA and DPW would be hit with that. It would be a major scandal with them, but not with PSU.

I think there could be some other reason for covering up 2001. But what?

J. J. in Phila
07-14-2012, 08:29 AM
It looks like Paterno knew as early as 1998, but participated in discussions regarding notification of proper authorities and chose to remain silent. A couple of years later, there was another related incident. Again, it was decided that silence would protect the reputation of the football team and thus the academic institution.

In 1998, by the time any of the Big Four knew about it, it was reported. Victim 6 decisions were made off campus.

Elley Mae
07-14-2012, 08:57 AM
http://www.philly.com/philly/news/20120714_Fallout_from_the_Freeh_report_is_high_on_ Penn_State_trustees__agenda.html

"I want the board to go away. It's that simple," she said as she took a seat among a dozen members of the public at a meeting held amid the release of the damning Freeh report on how child sex-abuse allegations against Jerry Sandusky were mishandled and covered up. "I feel the board has handled this situation badly in many ways."

BigCat
07-14-2012, 09:42 AM
I'm saying it would make more sense to move heaven and earth to cover up 1998 than 2001. Yet, though the Big Four knew about 1998, there is no evidence they tried. The decisions there were made off campus.

Well, in 2001, they could have said, **1998 was handled by law enforcement. They didn't find anything.** They could say that, if they reported Victim 2 and charges were filed.

Well, that's just it. The DA and DPW would be hit with that. It would be a major scandal with them, but not with PSU.

I think there could be some other reason for covering up 2001. But what?

You really aren't a football fan. :)

There's no big mystery to me. They didn't want to damage the football program, not one tiny bit. If children suffered, that's the price that must be paid.

It was obvious that Freeh is not a football fan either (he called Sandusky one of Paterno's "chief defense coaches", a very awkward phrasing) but he gets it.

Louis Freeh, asked why Penn State officials concealed their knowledge about Sandusky incidents, replied, "The motivation to avoid the consequences of bad publicity."

Asked in a follow-up question if it was to protect the football program, Freeh said, "I think that's an inference that you can draw. But I think bad publicity affects a panorama of different events, including the brand of Penn State, including the university, including the reputation of coaches, including the ability to do fundraising. It's got huge implications."

http://www.altoonamirror.com/page/content.detail/id/562402/Freeh-report-updates.html

The Penn State 4 did not need to remind RFG of this in 98. He already knew it and made the calculation it was not worth it to press charges. I'm sure he didn't care about Penn State football, but he knew those "crazy football fans" would put him through hell for harming the football program. Yes, RFG. Not, Sandsusky. That's the way a fanatic thinks.

JMO

J. J. in Phila
07-14-2012, 09:54 AM
You really aren't a football fan. :)

There's no big mystery to me. They didn't want to damage the football program, not one tiny bit. If children suffered, that's the price that must be paid.



I'm definitely not a football fan. However, 2001 would damage the program far less than 1998. There is no suggestion that the
Big Four interfered in 1998.



The Penn State 4 did not need to remind RFG of this in 98. He already knew it and made the calculation it was not worth it to press charges. I'm sure he didn't care about Penn State football, but he knew those "crazy football fans" would put him through hell for harming the football program. Yes, RFG. Not, Sandsusky. That's the way a fanatic thinks.



You are basically saying that he was scared. But he wasn't in other cases.

BigCat
07-14-2012, 10:08 AM
I'm definitely not a football fan. However, 2001 would damage the program far less than 1998. There is no suggestion that the
Big Four interfered in 1998.

You are basically saying that he was scared. But he wasn't in other cases.

You just said 98 would damage Penn State far worse than 2001. No case he did prosecute compares to the potential damage to the program caused by an assistant coach molesting a boy in the football shower.

Yes, it's possible that he was scared. I'm an ex-marine. I often get scared. There's no shame in admitting that. We're human...all too human.

J. J. in Phila
07-14-2012, 10:41 AM
You just said 98 would damage Penn State far worse than 2001. No case he did prosecute compares to the potential damage to the program caused by an assistant coach molesting a boy in the football shower.


Phillips was close, and that was much more closely tied to Paterno. It was also a weaker case; RFG lost it.


Yes, it's possible that he was scared. I'm an ex-marine. I often get scared. There's no shame in admitting that. We're human...all too human.

It is possible, and not the worst possibility.

The problem I have is that RFG, if he was scared, could have prosecuted it after Sandusky retired. RFG probably didn't know that Paterno had already said that Sandusky would never be the coach, but within a year, he knew Sandusky wouldn't be part of the program.

costalpilot
07-14-2012, 11:22 AM
Legal experts say Paterno could have faced charges

http://www.centurylink.net/news/read.php?id=19003757&ps=1011&srce=news_class&action=5&lang=en&_LT=UNLC_USNWU00L5_UNEWS

HARRISBURG, Pa. (AP) — If he were alive today, Joe Paterno — the coach who stood for so long for character and integrity both on and off the football field — could be looking at charges such as child endangerment, perjury and conspiracy.

Legal experts said emails and other evidence in the Penn State investigative report released Thursday suggest that Paterno may have misled a grand jury when asked when he first heard about Jerry Sandusky's misconduct, and show that Paterno and other university officials put boys in danger with their failure to report sexual abuse allegations against Sandusky more than a decade ago.

Duquesne University law professor Wes Oliver said the report by former FBI Director Louis Freeh reads like a prosecution case for a child endangerment charge against Paterno, then-President Graham Spanier, athletic director Tim Curley and now-retired vice president Gary Schultz. Oliver noted that a former top official in the Philadelphia Archdiocese was convicted of that charge in June for allowing a suspected pedophile priest to be around children.

"If you look at what happened here, it's very clear that they were aware that they had a pedophile on their campus," Oliver said.

Will Spade, a former Philadelphia prosecutor who worked on a grand jury investigation of priests about a decade ago, agreed: "Spanier, Paterno, Schultz and Curley are arguably responsible for endangering all of those kids that were abused later."

More at link.....

the Paternos ought to pay more attention to reports like this and less to their lawyers, who have sent them out to attack Freeh's findings centered about the complaint that his report would not be admissable in court. Jay Paterno spent all day on espn making that argument, which espn was only too glad to air but the arguments were clearly narrow, legalistc arguments which ignored the weight of the evidence which Freeh presented and which everyone understood clearly. The result is that the Paterno's seem to be giving some context to how misunderstood Joepa was all those years, and are demonstrating how he could have responded so tragically and improperly to the greatest crisis of his life. If the Paternos are more concerned with his reputation than the truth, well isn't that exactly what Freeh accused Joepa of? Yes, it was.

They dont get it. and he didnt either.

LNL
07-14-2012, 11:37 AM
Paterno Won Sweeter Deal Even as Scandal Played Out
By JO BECKER
Published: July 14, 2012

In January 2011, Joe Paterno learned prosecutors were investigating his longtime assistant coach Jerry Sandusky for sexually assaulting young boys. Soon, Mr. Paterno had testified before a grand jury, and the rough outlines of what would become a giant scandal had been published in a local newspaper.

That same month, Mr. Paterno, the football coach at Penn State, began negotiating with his superiors to amend his contract, with the timing something of a surprise because the contract was not set to expire until the end of 2012, according to university documents and people with knowledge of the discussions. By August, Mr. Paterno and the university’s president, both of whom were by then embroiled in the Sandusky investigation, had reached an agreement.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/07/14/sports/ncaafootball/joe-paterno-got-richer-contract-amid-jerry-sandusky-inquiry.html?_r=1&hp

All I can say is that the BOT was and is pathetic. Talk about spineless.

costalpilot
07-14-2012, 02:33 PM
This is getting uglier and uglier as Paterno's last dealings with the University and the BOTs are being revealed. when you factor in that 3 Paterno supporters have just been added to the BOT's, including an outspoken advocate of forcing the board to APOLOGIZE to Paterno for his firing, it has the potential to get worse and worse.

What is becomming clear that, is that, far from putting this behind them, the University and the bot have still been unable to overcome the cult of the individual and the power of football in insular Happy Valley and that the great Penn State University is in for a protracted seige of sorts, rather than honestly attempting to put this sordid mess behind them.

in retrospect it is somewhat surprising that the bot was even able to commission an independent investigation of the affair, but they did.

I have wondered as this unfolded about the lack of comment from the leaders of the University at levels other than the administration and the BOT. Where are the nationally respected professional leaders of the academic community? Where is even one comment from them about all this? Penn State has produced leading professionals across the years, Doctors, lawyers, historians, social scientists and physical scientists of note and national reputation. Have none of these people anything to say? Have none of them felt the need to comment on the terrible tragedy that has befallen their University?

Where are they?

as for the Paterno family, they are clearly demonstrating what he and they are made of, and that his reputation, so carefully crafted and nutured over the years (by HIM), was a lie. If there was ever any doubt about who or what he was, they are in the process of clearing it up finally and completely. and the irony is, they don't have a clue. Armed with their Lawyers legalistic arguments against the Freeh report, Jay Paterno spent the entire day on ESPN attacking the report and attempting to diminish its impact in the community at large.

what the Paternos are going to find out, in short order, is that the world is a LOT bigger than Happy Valley, and that the TRUTH cannot be hidden forever nowadays, not outside the confines of Paterno's lost kingdom.

this is increasingly becoming a sad affair made even sadded but clearer by their pathetic and futile attempts to control it.

the same is true for the bot and the administration. no doubt they feel empowered to make statements like "a contract is a contract" as regards their final pathetic acquiesance to Paterno with his obscence retirement contract, but as the details emerge it is clear that the last word has not been spoken: judgements of them, him and that insular culture will be the final word.

The ncaa may be forced in the final analysis to do what they really dont want to do, kill the football program at penn state.

kill it in order to save the university itself. For anything less may not be enough.

Reader
07-14-2012, 02:41 PM
J. J. in Phila
But it wasn't covered up at the DA's Office level. Chambers filed a report with the DPW hotline. Schreffler filed everything with the DA's Office. The Chambers' Report was sent to the DA's Office, according to Schreffler's report. It was actually sent there before Seasock became involved.

Victim 6 is the more devastating case to Penn State, especially the football program, because, in 1998, Sandusky is actually working there. So, why didn't the Big Four try to stop LE in 1998, and why do they seem more concerned about the less damaging 2001 incident?

IMO, it may be because after 1998, which they did not control but all 4 knew about, they did not take any corrective action with JS who was still in the football program then and under their supervision. Even though no charges were filed by the DA in 1998, it would look horrible if knowing what happened with the victim, they did not restrict him absolutely from bringing children into the school facilities and taking them to other functions and on trips. They had the power over him at the time to do this. Plus they had given him that handsome retirement package, even with a big bonus, knowing he was a probable pedophile, and were still associating the football program with him and his programs at 2nd mile. They had even sold him the land to expand it, attended fundraisers, all with someone they knew had done this before in 1998 and this new incident more or less proves he is what they suspected in back then.

Then in 2001, when they found out about the new incident that occurred in the school facilities with a believable witness no less, I imagine panic set in (I'm pretty sure there were verbal discussions not known to us or Freeh) about how could this happen again in OUR football showers? what will people say? how will this affect the football program? how will this affect our reputations? That SOB promised he would not do this again!! And now he's out of our control so the only thing left to do is not let it get out or we are burned. Plus we've still been supporting that SOB at 2nd Mile and how will that look, since we knew what he did back in 1998 and took no action to control him. Hell, we didn't even discuss it with him! How will that look to all the fans?

You find this type of criticism from the public, rightfully so most of the time, in other child abuse cases especially when there has been previous involvement with the family and child about abuse. Why didn't the agency do something back then? Why was the child still in the home? Why wasn't the parent charged before?

All IMO from a little past experience.....

J. J. in Phila
07-14-2012, 02:48 PM
This is getting uglier and uglier as Paterno's last dealings with the University and the BOTs are being revealed. when you factor in that 3 Paterno supporters have just been added to the BOT's, including an outspoken advocate of forcing the board to APOLOGIZE to Paterno for his firing, it has the potential to get worse and worse.


I think that this was before the Freeh Report. The world changed with that.

I was someone that defended Paterno, absent of any evidence that he was involved in the decision making in 2001. Well, it is there, and a lot clearer.

You have people that hero worship; sometimes when that hero is less than heroic they either are in denial or they come around.



I have wondered as this unfolded about the lack of comment from the leaders of the University at levels other than the administration and the BOT. Where are the nationally respected professional leaders of the academic community? Where is even one comment from them about all this? Penn State has produced leading professionals across the years, Doctors, lawyers, historians, social scientists and physical scientists of note and national reputation. Have none of these people anything to say? Have none of them felt the need to comment on the terrible tragedy that has befallen their University?


Some of us are speaking.



as for the Paterno family, they are clearly demonstrating what he and they are made of, and that his reputation, so carefully crafted and nutured over the years (by HIM), was a lie. If there was ever any doubt about who or what he was, they are in the process of clearing it up finally and completely. and the irony is, they don't have a clue. Armed with their Lawyers legalistic arguments against the Freeh report, Jay Paterno spent the entire day on ESPN attacking the report and attempting to diminish its impact in the community at large.

what the Paternos are going to find out, in short order, is that the world is a LOT bigger than Happy Valley, and that the TRUTH cannot be hidden forever nowadays, not outside the confines of Paterno's lost kingdom.


Legacy protection never works.

J. J. in Phila
07-14-2012, 02:53 PM
IMO, it may be because after 1998, which they did not control but all 4 knew about, they did not take any corrective action with JS who was still in the football program then and under their supervision. Even though no charges were filed by the DA in 1998, it would look horrible if knowing what happened with the victim, they did not restrict him absolutely from bringing children into the school facilities and taking them to other functions and on trips. They had the power over him at the time to do this. Plus they had given him that handsome retirement package, even with a big bonus, knowing he was a probable pedophile, and were still associating the football program with him and his programs at 2nd mile. They had even sold him the land to expand it, attended fundraisers, all with someone they knew had done this before in 1998 and this new incident more or less proves he is what they suspected in back then.


They knew about 1998, but they also knew that it was not found to be improper.


You find this type of criticism from the public, rightfully so most of the time, in other child abuse cases especially when there has been previous involvement with the family and child about abuse. Why didn't the agency do something back then? Why was the child still in the home? Why wasn't the parent charged before?

All IMO from a little past experience.....

Well they would have been asking that of the DA's Office and DPW, but not PSU or the football program.

IzzyBlanche
07-14-2012, 03:07 PM
They knew about 1998, but they also knew that it was not found to be improper.

Legally, no. But there is nothing proper about a middle-aged man showering with a young boy not his son or close relative.

Well they would have been asking that of the DA's Office and DPW, but not PSU or the football program.

Reader laid it out very clearly why they WOULD have been asking that of the football program. The hint of impropriety alone should have made them bar JS from bringing kids to PSU facilities.

Had Joe been the great humanitarian it says he was behind his statue, of course.

BigCat
07-14-2012, 03:47 PM
IMO, it may be because after 1998, which they did not control but all 4 knew about, they did not take any corrective action with JS who was still in the football program then and under their supervision. Even though no charges were filed by the DA in 1998, it would look horrible if knowing what happened with the victim, they did not restrict him absolutely from bringing children into the school facilities and taking them to other functions and on trips. They had the power over him at the time to do this. Plus they had given him that handsome retirement package, even with a big bonus, knowing he was a probable pedophile, and were still associating the football program with him and his programs at 2nd mile. They had even sold him the land to expand it, attended fundraisers, all with someone they knew had done this before in 1998 and this new incident more or less proves he is what they suspected in back then.

Then in 2001, when they found out about the new incident that occurred in the school facilities with a believable witness no less, I imagine panic set in (I'm pretty sure there were verbal discussions not known to us or Freeh) about how could this happen again in OUR football showers? what will people say? how will this affect the football program? how will this affect our reputations? That SOB promised he would not do this again!! And now he's out of our control so the only thing left to do is not let it get out or we are burned. Plus we've still been supporting that SOB at 2nd Mile and how will that look, since we knew what he did back in 1998 and took no action to control him. Hell, we didn't even discuss it with him! How will that look to all the fans?

You find this type of criticism from the public, rightfully so most of the time, in other child abuse cases especially when there has been previous involvement with the family and child about abuse. Why didn't the agency do something back then? Why was the child still in the home? Why wasn't the parent charged before?

All IMO from a little past experience.....

The Freeh report is very clear that Paterno took no action against Sandusky whatsoever.

"The evidence shows that Mr. Paterno was made aware of the 1998 investigation of Sandusky, followed it closely, but failed to take any action, even though Sandusky had been a key member of his coaching staff for almost 30 years, and had an office just steps away from Mr. Paterno's.

"At the very least, Mr. Paterno could have alerted the entire football staff, in order to prevent Sandusky from bringing another child'' into the building where Sandusky abused several children."

Also, we know that Sandusky took victim 4 with him to bowl games in 98 and 99 AFTER the investigation was closed. That revelation would have been a PR nightmare for Penn State.

StellarsJay
07-14-2012, 04:36 PM
A recent Deadspin article links to a part of Spanier's interview with the Freeh group that I can't find elsewhere- it's a photo of something.
http://img.gawkerassets.com/post/11/2012/07/spanierstatement_1.jpg

azwriter
07-14-2012, 05:05 PM
This is getting uglier and uglier as Paterno's last dealings with the University and the BOTs are being revealed. when you factor in that 3 Paterno supporters have just been added to the BOT's, including an outspoken advocate of forcing the board to APOLOGIZE to Paterno for his firing, it has the potential to get worse and worse.

What is becomming clear that, is that, far from putting this behind them, the University and the bot have still been unable to overcome the cult of the individual and the power of football in insular Happy Valley and that the great Penn State University is in for a protracted seige of sorts, rather than honestly attempting to put this sordid mess behind them.

in retrospect it is somewhat surprising that the bot was even able to commission an independent investigation of the affair, but they did.

I have wondered as this unfolded about the lack of comment from the leaders of the University at levels other than the administration and the BOT. Where are the nationally respected professional leaders of the academic community? Where is even one comment from them about all this? Penn State has produced leading professionals across the years, Doctors, lawyers, historians, social scientists and physical scientists of note and national reputation. Have none of these people anything to say? Have none of them felt the need to comment on the terrible tragedy that has befallen their University?

Where are they?

as for the Paterno family, they are clearly demonstrating what he and they are made of, and that his reputation, so carefully crafted and nutured over the years (by HIM), was a lie. If there was ever any doubt about who or what he was, they are in the process of clearing it up finally and completely. and the irony is, they don't have a clue. Armed with their Lawyers legalistic arguments against the Freeh report, Jay Paterno spent the entire day on ESPN attacking the report and attempting to diminish its impact in the community at large.

what the Paternos are going to find out, in short order, is that the world is a LOT bigger than Happy Valley, and that the TRUTH cannot be hidden forever nowadays, not outside the confines of Paterno's lost kingdom.

this is increasingly becoming a sad affair made even sadded but clearer by their pathetic and futile attempts to control it.

the same is true for the bot and the administration. no doubt they feel empowered to make statements like "a contract is a contract" as regards their final pathetic acquiesance to Paterno with his obscence retirement contract, but as the details emerge it is clear that the last word has not been spoken: judgements of them, him and that insular culture will be the final word.

The ncaa may be forced in the final analysis to do what they really dont want to do, kill the football program at penn state.

kill it in order to save the university itself. For anything less may not be enough.


Absolutely one great post, costal! Reading it brought me to this question - where do we go from here. What now will be the answer to the chant "We Are:"

Will it be "We are: Sorry" or :We Are: Ashamed."

You all can have a chance to fill in the blank "We Are:______________.

Tipstaff
07-14-2012, 05:16 PM
A recent Deadspin article links to a part of Spanier's interview with the Freeh group that I can't find elsewhere- it's a photo of something.
http://img.gawkerassets.com/post/11/2012/07/spanierstatement_1.jpg

Spannier saying "I have no recollection of that meeting other than Tim was worried about how he should handle things if he informed Sandusky that we were forbidding him from bringing Second Mile youth into our facilities and then Sandusky disagreed with this directive" is an admission from Spannier he knew exactly what what going on. Yet he claims to have no recollection.

And we are/were expected to believe this? Are these people living on planet earth?

costalpilot
07-14-2012, 05:54 PM
Absolutely one great post, costal! Reading it brought me to this question - where do we go from here. What now will be the answer to the chant "We Are:"

Will it be "We are: Sorry" or :We Are: Ashamed."

You all can have a chance to fill in the blank "We Are:______________.

i have been to the scout.com/pennstate forum and I have been surprised at the recognition by MANY of their fans of their fate. it is a FOOTBALL forum, so they are fans, and die hard fans at that. some still defend paterno, and hard as that is to believe, I get it. some folks will never learn. but actually i have seen more than one redo the chant along those lines. many of them understood the Freeh report, and it really hurt. for those, I can feel some compassion and empathy. its a sad thing to see.

thanks azwriter.