Troll Psychology: A discussion on ‘internet bullying’ [Archive]

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~n/t~

07-17-2012, 10:20 AM

Many times we think bullying occurs with persons we may know such as coworkers, friends, neighbours, etc.

Reality is it does NOT. I found this article very interesting and wonder how many of us have experienced this type of bullying. Reading the article, I can certainly say I did.

An interesting suggestion was put forward to me on Yahoo answers the other day by ‘Patricia’ who said that I should write an article about internet bullying and more specifically why the internet bullies; or trolls are compelled to purposely to post inflammatory comments on websites in the first place. Please be warned that this article does contain some strong language, if you are easily offended please do not read any

http://daily-grind.net/troll-psychology-an-insight-into-internet-bullying/

jaroba07

07-17-2012, 10:49 AM

I personally think everyone who has ever been on the internet and socialized in any way has encountered a "troll".

It is sad and we will probably never really know the "why" of it. Being allowed to be anonymous tends to let the worst in people out. Always has, always will!

~n/t~

07-17-2012, 11:39 AM

Another article from PC World

Internet Trolls: The Psychology Behind the Rants

Dr. David Solly at University of the Rockies, a graduate school specializing in social and behavioral sciences, says complaining -- be it on the Web or alone in front of a mirror -- releases stress and makes the grumbler feel physically better. And the Internet, with its endless assortment of social forums, gives consumers "the capability of voicing their opinions with grandeur on a global scale."

http://www.pcworld.com/article/242526/internet_trolls_the_psychology_behind_the_rants.ht ml

jaroba07

07-17-2012, 12:09 PM

I have facebook and twitter but only so I can be nosy...hehe

When I am really stressed and want to start complaining I always grab a notebook and write it all down. It usually makes no sense and too many run on sentences but it makes me feel better. After writing all my complaints out, I tear it out of the notebook and throw it away.

Mind you I wasn't always this way. I used to complain all the time, mainly to my husband. One day, about 3 years ago I noticed myself doing it which I had never noticed before. I thought to myself, good grief if I'm hearing myself do this he definitely does. Which of course he did. I felt so bad about it that I had to figure out another way to deal with it.

Not that I still don't complain now and again about certain things, but I don't complain about every last little thing like I used to.

I know that got a little off topic, sorry about that!

HMSHood

11-01-2012, 01:13 AM

Internet trolls can’t help themselves
http://www.salon.com/2012/08/01/online_comments_are_toxic_salpart/

“Most people who troll are people who are just like you and me, but just a bit more intense,” says Olivier Morin, a cultural anthropologist who has written about trolling.

One website breaks trolls into categories: the hater, the moral crusader, the debunker, the defender. But trolls might not retain those qualities in real life. It’s just that the Internet’s anonymity makes it impossible for them to resist spewing vitriol from the protective cave of cyberspace. Psychologists call it the “disinhibition effect,” in which “the frequency of self-interested unethical behavior increases among anonymous people.” Non-academics refer to it as “John Gabriel’s Greater Internet F-wad Theory”: the combination of anonymity and an audience brings out the absolute worst in people.

Sonya610

11-01-2012, 09:15 AM

I don't see how most internet trolling can be compared to bullying. Not everything annoying is bullying.

Trolls don't typically bully individuals, they just trigger the group go off topic or become enraged and often trigger the group to BULLY the troll. I have met quite a few very funny internet trolls as well, if people don't take themselves (or their group mindset) they will see what the troll is doing and find it amusing.

JeannaT

11-01-2012, 09:57 AM

I totally agree with Sonya. I really don't see how an anonymous persona attacking another anonymous persona through a technical device that can very easily be turned off compares to bullying in person in a venue like a school where a child literally can not legally flee.

Although, I have seen people believe they are being mercilessly bullied online. I was on a dog training website once, (had some real dog issues at the time) and there was a girl there who had a very public dog issue (sorry, trying to stay anonymous here, you can still trace this woman to her real live and breathe address and name online) and she would come to that board every night and they would bully her. And the next night she'd be there again, crying, saying they don't understand her, and they were SO CRUEL.

This went on for at least a year. Literally. I've seen other things kind of similar, not that bizarre, online with people who perceive they're being bullied against their will.

I don't understand it. Turn the dang thing off. Almost always, NO ONE on that site knows who you are, there's no reason to return and subject yourself to it!

Chewy

11-01-2012, 10:31 AM

It's funny though how trolls don't think they are being trolls. One gossip site I've gone to has grown women sitting around all day making fun of celebrities children. Making fun of 5 year olds. They think it's funny. If you point out how wrong this is they go insane and gang up on the poster and try to bully them off the site. Yet they seriously think they are the good guys and the others are the trolls.

JeannaT

11-01-2012, 02:26 PM

I agree Chewy, and have to add that internet forums can become so entrenched with the regulars and so very polarized that it's actually comical. I needed advice on cage bedding for new pet mice - because mice stink - and ran afoul of some very very VERY passionate rodent owners who screamed troll at me for asking if there was anything better at controlling odor than cedar wood shavings. Haha. Apparently, people have very passionate feelings about rodent cage bedding, and I wasn't able to convince anyone I wasn't a troll trying to start a board war.

So ya never know. ;D

Tricia

11-01-2012, 11:54 PM

Trolling and bullying on discussion sites is out of control. It's disruptive and hurtful In so many ways.

This is why Websleuths has such tight rules. If we want to have mature discussions about crime we have to have strict rules AND constant moderation. If we don't the trolls get in and start up.

It's too bad we have to do it this way but it is the only way to make it work.

What gets me is these jerks would NEVER post their hateful lies if they had to use their real names. This just proves that trolls are cowards. They hide behind their keyboards.

-----_____________________

Tricia

11-01-2012, 11:59 PM

christee

11-02-2012, 12:14 AM

There is a LOT of trolls and bullying on Twitter! Everything from teen issues to criminals! It can be real dirty bird kind of nest :giggle:

HMSHood

11-02-2012, 08:32 PM

This may be an urban legend but I think one of the first lawsuits over fighting and name calling happened on a forum discussing how to make soap.

How to make soap. These bullies couldn't stop themselves on a forum about soap because they felt they had power. The power of hiding behind their keyboard and saying what they wanted without showing the world who they really are.

_____________-------_

If true, that is really pathetic. I mean why troll a soap making forum? :crazy:

There is a LOT of trolls and bullying on Twitter! Everything from teen issues to criminals! It can be real dirty bird kind of nest :giggle:

Those news sites are bad as well.

Sonya610

11-09-2012, 09:11 AM

I was on a dog training website once, (had some real dog issues at the time) and there was a girl there who had a very public dog issue (sorry, trying to stay anonymous here, you can still trace this woman to her real live and breathe address and name online) and she would come to that board every night and they would bully her. And the next night she'd be there again, crying, saying they don't understand her, and they were SO CRUEL.

Haha...yeah dog training sites often are often quite brutal. They frequently have a "pack" mentality and assume anyone new to their forum is stupid and needs to be ridiculed (as if that helps the dog any). Add the fact that many hard core dog people don't like humans that much (myself included) and they often aren't the warmest, fuzziest folks around.

In cases like the one you described it is sometimes hard to tell whether the person being victimized is a troll, or whether they are serious. If she hung around for a year she probably was serious and had some mental problems.

Most trolls aren't bullys though. The word "trolling" means throwing bait in the water to see what it attracts, not targeting individuals for harassment. When people start hunting each other down and making real life threats that isn't trolling, that is harassment, and it can sometimes violate the law.

Any site where people hold tightly to a set group of beliefs and get easily upset, or even enraged, when others deviate from those beliefs is ripe for trolling. I can see why WS has to be strict as this site would fertile ground in that respect; lots of emotion and very strong belief systems in place.

Confusion

11-12-2012, 11:50 AM

Haha...yeah dog training sites often are often quite brutal. They frequently have a "pack" mentality and assume anyone new to their forum is stupid and needs to be ridiculed (as if that helps the dog any). Add the fact that many hard core dog people don't like humans that much (myself included) and they often aren't the warmest, fuzziest folks around.

In cases like the one you described it is sometimes hard to tell whether the person being victimized is a troll, or whether they are serious. If she hung around for a year she probably was serious and had some mental problems.

Most trolls aren't bullys though. The word "trolling" means throwing bait in the water to see what it attracts, not targeting individuals for harassment. When people start hunting each other down and making real life threats that isn't trolling, that is harassment, and it can sometimes violate the law.

Any site where people hold tightly to a set group of beliefs and get easily upset, or even enraged, when others deviate from those beliefs is ripe for trolling. I can see why WS has to be strict as this site would fertile ground in that respect; lots of emotion and very strong belief systems in place.

I agree completely. Trolls usually post something that they know will set off a lot of people (best if it sets off both sides of an issue), and then sits back and watches the fight. There are times when an internet bully may also troll, but it's not that common. It does seem to be that they do tend to choose issues that "bullies" will disagree with a lot of times; I'm guessing it's so that potential "victims" will actually participate in the discussion by starting out just saying that they agree with the troll. I tend to think of them as more passive-aggressive than bullies. It's not all that uncommon for them to also pretend to play "peacemaker", and then start things back up when it starts to calm down.

Bullies are more likely to pick one target, or maybe a few, and aim attacks directly. Sometimes it may be because they dislike the person, but it often seems to just be that they've found someone who is easily upset. Ironically, I think trolls are usually much more aware of what they're doing and willing to admit it than bullies are. I'm not sure if it's because they aren't aware of what they write (how it comes across to others) or if they just have a different definition of the word bully, or it could just be that they really do know they do it but don't want to admit it.

I think it's more common on the internet than in real life mainly because it's more obvious in real life. If someone just responds negatively to all of your posts on line, it's easy enough to just say that it's nothing personal - you just disagree on everything. If someone were to follow you around physically and argue with everything you said, they'd probably be charged with stalking. MOO

~n/t~

11-12-2012, 02:00 PM

Cyber bullying is very real and IMO it starts off as trolling and escalates from there.

Confusion

11-12-2012, 03:09 PM

Cyber bullying is very real and IMO it starts off as trolling and escalates from there.

I think it's more common than a lot of people think partially because I don't think most cyber bullies believe they're bullies. There are many times that complaints of bullying remind me of an old joke; Mom comes in and finds the kids fighting, she asks, "Okay, who started it?" and the younger one says, "He did, he hit me back!"

Unfortunately, what usually happens in cases like that here (meaning on the internet, not necessarily WS) is that someone else will make a comment and they'll both turn on the third person. I often think it's just to try to save face because they know the other bully won't back down. I don't always succeed, but I usually try to either stay out of those things completely or just report them and let the mods deal with it.

Glow

11-12-2012, 03:14 PM

A most interesting thread topic since I just witnessed this happening recently!

Sonya610

11-12-2012, 04:09 PM

Cyber bullying is very real and IMO it starts off as trolling and escalates from there.

I have been online for 15 years and been involved in plenty of arguments and met my share of unpleasant people however I don't EVER recall seeing anyone truly bullied. I have seen people PICKED ON for quite a while because they are stupid and keep begging for more but never bullied.

I can see high school kids that know each other in REAL LIFE bullying each other on face book but honestly I don't quite see how that happens with adults.

I assume "bullying" does not refer to someone stalking another and digging up R/L info but tht others are "mean" to someone.

How does that happen with adults? Why don't they just ignore (possible on most forums and chats) the offending personas or leave the forum/chat/whatever?

Confusion

11-12-2012, 04:24 PM

Sonya610

11-12-2012, 04:50 PM

That's exactly how it happens.

Yeah and that just doesn't make sense to me. In my mind "being bullied" means you can't get away from them (like at school or even work, they can and will come after you and you can't avoid them).

Online you can make anyone disappear from your reality with just one click of a button -- no one can harass you if you don't let them. I have found if people start targeting you on forums or anywhere else it is best to put them on ignore sooner rather than later, don't let them get under your skin and don't try to "reason" with them. If you ignore them early on the situation won't escalate.

Confusion

11-12-2012, 05:04 PM

Yeah and that just doesn't make sense to me. In my mind "being bullied" means you can't get away from them (like at school or even work, they can and will come after you and you can't avoid them).

Online you can make anyone disappear from your reality with just one click of a button -- no one can harass you if you don't let them.

Just like real life bullies. They can't pick on you if you don't leave home. The thing about bullies is that they don't just pick on one person and act sweet and loving with everyone else; if they chase off one victim, they'll just choose a new one. Why should all but a few kids have to play in some dirty alley just because a bully wants the playground for only him and his friends? Likewise, why should someone here (as an example) have to leave the forums to avoid being criticized, insulted, etc. constantly? On most sites, there is a way to report the bully, and I think more people need to use that button rather than the ignore button.

I have had people who annoy me a lot online, but only a couple of them were people I'd consider to be bullies. One happened to be a poster on a site I moderated who got way over the line with other posters and the staff. I finally talked to our manager to see if there was a way to block him and his other personae more long-term/permanently. He asked who it was, looked up the account information and got back to me a few minutes later saying the problem was solved. It happened to be the 14 year old son of somebody he knew; he called the kid's mother and she took away his computer for 6 months. He was a changed person when he finally did come back.

Sonya610

11-12-2012, 06:29 PM

Likewise, why should someone here (as an example) have to leave the forums to avoid being criticized, insulted, etc. constantly? On most sites, there is a way to report the bully, and I think more people need to use that button rather than the ignore button.

A lot of sites are poorly moderated or the mods simply do not care. All websites and most all chat rooms are privately run therefore the owners dictate the rules. Sometimes the owners/admins are fair, sometimes not. If people don't like how things are run they can leave.

It is like when people claim "they have the right to free speech" on forums, there IS NO RIGHT to free speech when you are posting on a site unless you OWN that site.

Confusion

11-12-2012, 07:14 PM

A lot of sites are poorly moderated or the mods simply do not care. All websites and most all chat rooms are privately run therefore the owners dictate the rules. Sometimes the owners/admins are fair, sometimes not. If people don't like how things are run they can leave.

It is like when people claim "they have the right to free speech" on forums, there IS NO RIGHT to free speech when you are posting on a site unless you OWN that site.

It's very seldom the people who are running the site who are the problem. I personally don't think most people would enjoy a site where the admins encouraged/condoned bullying, so I don't really think that has much to do with what I was talking about (I can't speak for other people about what they were). In most cases, the mods are overworked, but will eventually remove offensive posts; they'll do it sooner if people use report rather than ignore more often, or worse yet responding.

I'm sure there are more people who agree with you about just leaving if someone bothers you, but I've seen too many people run off from various sites. There may be truth in what people say, but it still bothers me to have them saying that the target needs to get a thicker skin, should just leave if they're offended, should just grow up and act like an adult, and 101 other things. I'd prefer to see them reporting the attacks rather than laughing about them, joining in or just ignoring them, and I have left forums because of bullies even though I wasn't attacked personally.

Tricia

11-13-2012, 12:57 AM

I have been online for 15 years and been involved in plenty of arguments and met my share of unpleasant people however I don't EVER recall seeing anyone truly bullied. I have seen people PICKED ON for quite a while because they are stupid and keep begging for more but never bullied.

I can see high school kids that know each other in REAL LIFE bullying each other on face book but honestly I don't quite see how that happens with adults.

I assume "bullying" does not refer to someone stalking another and digging up R/L info but tht others are "mean" to someone.

How does that happen with adults? Why don't they just ignore (possible on most forums and chats) the offending personas or leave the forum/chat/whatever?

In my case Websleuths is not only something I love dearly but it is business.

When the personal attacks happened to me(and continue to this day) my son, my family, my friends, and God knows how who else, all read them and became upset.

The out right falsehoods posted by people angry at me for banning them are really horrific.

I do ignore most of it but I am here to tell you it hurts and it is awful. Yes it does affect me.

If people criticize me that's fine. Go for it. It's the cruel comments about my looks or the lies that I have done this or that cut deep. Especially when my son reads them.

My real name and all my personal info is out there. That makes mean easy target.

If it was just me posting on some board anonymously and I was being attack I think I could ignore it.

What is happening more and more is these trolls are finding out personal info about people even if they are posting anonymously . Then they use what they know to continue the harassment with their new info.

It is important to remember how powerful our words really are and to always remember there is a real person reading what you write.

Thanks :)

Trixia

the seeker

11-13-2012, 03:10 AM

Sonya610

11-13-2012, 09:05 AM

My real name and all my personal info is out there. That makes mean easy target.

If it was just me posting on some board anonymously and I was being attack I think I could ignore it.

Your situation is very unique. Yes this is a business, you use your real name, but also the very nature of this site means you are likely to peeve off people that are aggressive and unbalanced (i.e. crazy relatives/friends of folks that are accused or convicted of horrible crimes).

What is happening more and more is these trolls are finding out personal info about people even if they are posting anonymously . Then they use what they know to continue the harassment with their new info.

Yes it is getting easier to find out real info because so many are using Facebook, Photobucket, and other sites that advertise their real name, friends, family, personal photos, etc... The mean folks aren't getting smarter, there are just a lot more naive people online these days. Plus the Internet superpowers like Google and Facebook are actively encouraging folks to link everything up to their real identities for marketing purposes.

If someone is posting real life info that is not trolling, I believe that is called "doxing", it is intended to humiliate individuals and/or force them off certain websites or out of online social circles.

Trolling is very specific, it isn't stalking and it isn't personal to an individual. It is simply making statements that will fire up random people's emotions and get a response, people that have a sense of humor usually laugh when they realize they got all upset over a troll that was cleverly pushing their buttons and causing folks to freak out behind their keyboards with just a few statements (but then again a lot of folks on the internet take themselves too seriously). Trolls have a sense of humor.

~n/t~

11-13-2012, 03:54 PM

Time is up for Twitter trolls and bullies

Acting Prime Minister Wayne Swan joined the #StoptheTrolls campaign even as a malicious and obscene tweet was sent to Julia Gillard over the death of her father John.
"This is a very worthwhile initiative by The Daily Telegraph that we fully support. Anonymous abuse and harassment can have devastating consequences," Mr Swan said.

"Some of the abuse that gets thrown at people on the internet makes me sick to the stomach. It takes a particular type of gutlessness to fire off the sort of anonymous abuse we've seen recently."

More at the link

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/time-is-up-for-twitter-trolls-and-bulllies/story-e6frf7jo-1226472133504

~n/t~

11-13-2012, 03:57 PM

Victory over cyber bullies: Legal first as High Court orders Facebook to reveal trolls who tormented mother for defending X Factor star

A mother who was sent death threats by so-called internet ‘trolls’ has won a landmark legal case against Facebook.
Nicola Brookes was tormented for months by anonymous internet bullies after she left an innocent message of support for an X Factor contestant on the social networking site.
She went to police to make a complaint but claimed officers told her to go home.

Now she has won a legal order forcing Facebook to disclose the identities of the trolls. It is the first time an individual has won such an order and Miss Brookes, 45, hopes to pursue private prosecutions against those responsible for her months of ‘vicious and depraved’ abuse.
Charities said the High Court ruling sent a message to the cyber bullies that their anonymity can be stripped away, leaving them open to prosecution.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2156365/Nicola-Brookes-victim-internet-trolls-wins-High-Court-backing-reveal-identities-targeted-her.html

JeannaT

11-13-2012, 04:31 PM

It's really weird but a good friend of a friend is a self proclaimed troll. I was shocked when I was told this. I asked my friend why this person did it and apparently it is for sheer amusement. She thinks its funny that people get enraged over what is said online.,, so she stirs the pots and sits back and laughs. Meeting this person, one would never guess.....sees one hundred percent normal.,,,,,

Hmm. Well, it depends on what it is that's "stirring the pot". If it's something like what I posted upthread about appropriate pet mice cage bedding and people get their knickers in a knot over that, to me that IS funny. I wasn't doing it on purpose, I just wanted to know about odor control bedding options but what happened next was truly funny.

My husband is a collector of Omega watches and he showed me the most vicious, angry, cut throat argument on a forum, fed by trolls, about whether you should repair an Omega with Omega parts, or whether it was okay to use cheaper generic parts. It was really funny, honestly.

But trolls who post purposely cruel things when people are hurting are another thing all together.