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JBean
07-21-2012, 07:55 PM
Official List (http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/US_COLORADO_SHOOTING_VICTIMS_GLANCE?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT) of the deceased
Twelve people who died in the Colorado movie shooting have been identified by the Arapahoe County coroner.
-Jessica Ghawi, 24, of Denver; aspiring sports journalist
-Veronica Moser, 6, whose mother was critically injured
-Matt McQuinn, 27, of Denver; technical support provider
-Alex Sullivan, 27, of Aurora; worked at Red Robin restaurant
- Micayla Medek, 23, of Westminster, Colo.
-John Larimer, 27, of Buckley Air Force Base, Navy cryptologist
-Jesse Childress, 29, of Thornton, Colo., Air Force cyber-systems operator
-Gordon W. Cowden, 51
-Jonathan T. Blunk, 26
-Rebecca Ann Wingo, 32
-Alexander C. Teves, 24, earned master's degree in counseling psychology in June from University of Denver
-Alexander J. Boik, 18


Thread #1

shadowraiths
07-21-2012, 08:21 PM
Motive still a blank in Aurora shooter's story link (http://www.washingtonpost.com/national/health-science/motive-still-a-blank-in-aurora-shooters-story/2012/07/21/gJQAD69T0W_story.html) )
By Joel Achenbach
Washington Post, Saturday, July 21, 10:45 AM


If police have discovered the motive for the Colorado movie theater rampage, they haven’t revealed it. Motive remains a missing piece of the terrible story of the Aurora massacre.

All such crimes can be described as senseless, or as the manifestation of evil, but what unfolded Friday at the midnight showing of the new Batman movie was something that so far lacks even a madman’s explanation.

[...]

Police say the killer at the movie theater had a small arsenal of weapons and a massive amount of ammunition, and he evidently wanted to kill as many innocent people as possible, as dramatically as possible.

[...]

The picture is likely to become clearer as investigators obtain more information about the suspect, but for the moment, the motive remains speculative, something inferred from the gunman’s actions more than from anything he communicated directly.

“Mass-shooting cases have the common motive of an attacker seeking immortality,” said Michael Welner, a forensic psychiatrist who is chairman of the Forensic Panel in New York. “Mass shootings are invariably, invariably carried out by people who have had high self-esteem. They are people who had high expectations of themselves.”

JBean
07-21-2012, 08:36 PM
Aurora theater shootings: Booby-traps in apartment deadly
http://www.denverpost.com/breakingnews/ci_21128252/aurora-theater-shootings-booby-traps-apartment-deadly


AURORA — If anyone had opened the door to James Holmes' booby-trapped apartment, they would have suffered serious injuries and likely lost their life.
Jim Yacone, FBI special agent in charge for Denver, said at a Saturday afternoon news conference that the explosives and IEDs in the apartment were as dangerous as feared. The threat is not over, he said, but is greatly reduced.

JBean
07-21-2012, 08:38 PM
Police: Colo. suspect planned theater shooting for months, rigged apartment with bombs

AURORA, Colo. — The Colorado shooting suspect planned the rampage that killed 12 midnight moviegoers with “calculation and deliberation,” police said Saturday, receiving deliveries for months which authorities believe armed him for battle and were used to rig his apartment with dozens of bombs.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/entertainment/police-colo-suspect-planned-theater-shooting-for-months-rigged-apartment-with-bombs/2012/07/21/gJQA2Nf20W_story.html

Zoe Bogart
07-21-2012, 08:42 PM
Bringing from the other thread:


I watched the bombs being detonated just now (ch 9 KUSA), and after seeing the explosions and the amount of fire involved, I hope they charge that "person" with many more counts of attempted murder. The lives of everyone in his apartment building were in serious danger. The carnage could have been so much worse.

One bomb exploded like a mushroom of fire. It was huge, another didn't quite look as bad on explosion but it burned longer and more violently.

The guy's actions are beyond evil.

I watched on the live stream, an aerial view. It was stunning.

They may post clips on their site soon:

http://www.9news.com/default.aspx

sfbaynancydrew
07-21-2012, 08:43 PM
I suddenly wish I knew the plot/story to the Dark Knight. I'm going to have to read about it.

Since James Holmes' only spoken indication of his "dark side" was saying, "i am the joker" does anyone know exactly what the jokers MO is in this movie??? Does he use explosives, create traps for LE, etc? I'm just wondering if this guy is emulating something and wondering if he hasn't rigged more surprises to come. I really know NOTHING about Batman and am regretting that now!

debirlfan
07-21-2012, 08:45 PM
Quoting from the last thread....


This part is baffling. The thought that comes to my mind is he took some perverse enjoyment from telling LE in advance in order for them to spend hours trying to dismantle his set-up. In other words, to LE: "see if you're smarter than I am".

He also may be taking some pleasure in seeing his neighbors displaced.

MOO

Maybe he thought the bombs in the apartment had already gone off, and let it slip?

If he did actually receive a phone call at the theater (as opposed to just faking one as an excuse for going outside), perhaps it was actually an automated call from his apartment. If he was capable of rigging the music on a timer and hanging numerous trip wires, then he could have set something up to call him when someone turned his door knob/rattled his door. That would have served as an indication to him that the bombs had gone off, and first responders were otherwise occupied.

When police responded so quickly and apprehended him, he might have said something like "I thought you'd be busy dealing with the explosion."

orora
07-21-2012, 08:55 PM
I believe it is critical to understand the role both the Batman movie as well as the trailer Gangsters Squad played that night.

Preplanning is evident over a significant period of time. If motive was over a school issue, the target should have reflected that. We have an apparently anonymous target. Or do we?

Odds of probability come into play in the initial investigation phase. We have a person here who simulates almost to a T, a scene just played in the theater from a movie trailer. (Gangsters Squad) That same person leaves a bomb at his home almost like a simulation of the premise of the batman movie he attends. Two aspects of coincidence but the big kicker is that this was the first showing!

Did he spend all this time preparing an attack with no target in mind? I would speculate an inside connection, an inside knowledge of the coming event, scouting of the theater and maybe even test runs or tampering of the rear exit door. If persued and if found to be so, no defence will fly. If he knew, how did he know?

Bravo
07-21-2012, 08:55 PM
The heroic stories coming out today are uplifting. I just saw video of "his Father" My heart goes out to "his" Family. They are Victims too.

panthera
07-21-2012, 08:56 PM
Quoting from the last thread....



Maybe he thought the bombs in the apartment had already gone off, and let it slip?

If he did actually receive a phone call at the theater (as opposed to just faking one as an excuse for going outside), perhaps it was actually an automated call from his apartment. If he was capable of rigging the music on a timer and hanging numerous trip wires, then he could have set something up to call him when someone turned his door knob/rattled his door. That would have served as an indication to him that the bombs had gone off, and first responders were otherwise occupied.

When police responded so quickly and apprehended him, he might have said something like "I thought you'd be busy dealing with the explosion."
Interesting thought! I did see the interview with the neighbor who noticed his apartment door unlocked, however didn't catch what time of the night she said it was.

LE would have his cell phone records which will show if indeed a call was made when he was exiting the theater, or if it was just a ruse to use the emergency exit door. Even a cell phone call shouldn't warrant access to that door, in my opinion.

MOO

Zoe Bogart
07-21-2012, 08:58 PM
Interesting thought! I did see the interview with the neighbor who noticed his apartment door unlocked, however didn't catch what time of the night she said it was.

LE would have his cell phone records which will show if indeed a call was made when he was exiting the theater, or if it was just a ruse to use the emergency exit door. Even a cell phone call shouldn't warrant access to that door, in my opinion.

MOO

The neighbor said the music started at midnight and stopped at 1am. She checked after the music played for a while. Since it was so loud, she went knocking at his door and had the feeling the door was unlocked, but didn't open it.

Benny08
07-21-2012, 09:00 PM
Quoting from the last thread....



Maybe he thought the bombs in the apartment had already gone off, and let it slip?


When police responded so quickly and apprehended him, he might have said something like "I thought you'd be busy dealing with the explosion."

I'm definitely thinking he thought his booby-traps went off and probably mentioned them when he was arrested. He was probably like I'm the Joker did you have fun with the booby-traps? Or at least that's where my imagination is at right now.

passionflower
07-21-2012, 09:01 PM
Evedently he never had anyone over to hang out in his apartment.
No friends?
No family dropping in? from out of state?

rollinginit
07-21-2012, 09:02 PM
I think the shooters motive is....fame. I think all these sick people are trying to out-do each other to be bigger and badder. The constant news coverage, the constant replays and repost of what he/she said. The constant "experts" giving their expert opinions. It's on a 24 an hour loop.

The shooter has no information on the web except his dating site...and that's still a big ? Mark. It's possible he erased everything before he did this horrible thing. Hes probably seen all the coverage of the other shooters...and see how fast information is spread.

I have guns....well, my hubby has them. He has collected them forever. I know nothing about them. I don't care for them at all. Would I ever use one? Well......I look at my 2 children down the hall. Yes. Yes I would to protect them. No doubt about it. Would I carry a gun to go see a movie? No. But I would protect my kids with my body. I would fight for them if I had to. I think most everybody would. That's why we are hearing stories of people shielding their loved in the theater.

I think shooter was missing a few cells in the brain...added with the fact that he wanted to make a boom exit and go down in history as a shooter and mass murderer. Now he will forever have his name added on wiki and other informational sites about this tragedy.

Just my 2 cents

passionflower
07-21-2012, 09:03 PM
The neighbor said the music started at midnight and stopped at 1am. She checked after the music played for a while. Since it was so loud, she went knocking at his door and had the feeling the door was unlocked, but didn't open it.

Thank goodness she never opened that door!
Imagine the lives that could of been lost!

jjenny
07-21-2012, 09:04 PM
Thank goodness she never opened that door!
Imagine the lives that could of been lost!

Yes, by not going in, she not only saved herself but likely a lot of other people too.

Benny08
07-21-2012, 09:05 PM
Random thought.. if he was "really smart" he could have been watching a webcam stream of his apartment on his phone while at the movies. (you can really do this these days) He probably wasn't that smart though. :floorlaugh:

mysterygirl
07-21-2012, 09:05 PM
Not one girlfriend (ex) has surfaced......

panthera
07-21-2012, 09:06 PM
The neighbor said the music started at midnight and stopped at 1am. She checked after the music played for a while. Since it was so loud, she went knocking at his door and had the feeling the door was unlocked, but didn't open it.

Thank you. It would fit in the timeline during the movie, however, doesn't appear to coincide with him exiting the theater using his phone to start the music.

MOO

Zoe Bogart
07-21-2012, 09:07 PM
Thank goodness she never opened that door!
Imagine the lives that could of been lost!

You're right about that. I was so shocked to see the HUGE mushroom of fire after one of the bombs was detonated, I immediately thought of the people in the apt. complex. The building would have blown up and burned immediately if all bombs had gone off at once, or one after the other. It was shocking to see and I was watching online, and the video was being shot from the air. Close up and personal would have been horrible.

jjenny
07-21-2012, 09:08 PM
Random thought.. if he was "really smart" he could have been watching a webcam stream of his apartment on his phone while at the movies. (you can really do this these days) He probably wasn't that smart though. :floorlaugh:

He obviously was smart enough to rig it all up and not blow himself up in the process.

Benny08
07-21-2012, 09:10 PM
He obviously was smart enough to rig it all up and not blow himself up in the process.

I was being sarcastic. He's getting all this "he's really smart" pub right now.

orora
07-21-2012, 09:11 PM
Holmes likely studied his neighbours and thought he had a good feel for what they would do in reaction to the loud music. He was a psych student. I imagine he thought it out pretty good right down to who he figured would trigger the explosion and when. Maybe there was an alert wired to the door or someother phone triggering device?

In the batman movie where the citizens were being held hostage to the bomb threat, I wonder if he was replicating the event? A huge and elaborately constructed device with unknown damage potential dangled in front of LE. Threats of timers, multiple triggeres etc etc, almost as if he were playing the movie out in real life.

Zoe Bogart
07-21-2012, 09:15 PM
The "person" asked neighbors in a small apartment building down the street if there were any vacancies in their building:

http://www.9news.com/news/local/article/278965/635/A-tough-unnerving-day-for-Holmes-neighbors

ggg
07-21-2012, 09:15 PM
An eyewitness said;


“From what we saw he wasn’t alone, he had somebody with him. A second can of tear gas came from the other side… what he was wearing was thick, so I think he would stand out in a crowd”.


James Holmes Possible Second Shooter in tragic Batman Denver Shooting Eyewitness Account - YouTube

HMSHood
07-21-2012, 09:17 PM
I wonder if James Holmes could face federal charges for killing two soldiers.

jjenny
07-21-2012, 09:18 PM
Eyewitness testimony is quite unreliable. Especially in a situation such as this.

wfgodot
07-21-2012, 09:20 PM
An eyewitness said;


“From what we saw he wasn’t alone, he had somebody with him. A second can of tear gas came from the other side… what he was wearing was thick, so I think he would stand out in a crowd”.


James Holmes Possible Second Shooter in tragic Batman Denver Shooting Eyewitness Account - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yoPqz4bQqJY&feature=player_embedded)
What's the news source of the video?

rollinginit
07-21-2012, 09:20 PM
As far as the second person theory.....is it not possible he had a friend that opened the door for him? It is possible if that happened the friend had NO IDEA what happened would happen.

I personally don't think there was a second person. I think he was in that movie theater many times. He probably tried out that door many times. I can't see him NOT doing a test run beforehand

I wonder if they had cameras in the theater. I know our local one does. Actually both do and one is just a dollar theater.

jjenny
07-21-2012, 09:22 PM
As far as the second person theory.....is it not possible he had a friend that opened the door for him? It is possible if that happened the friend had NO IDEA what happened would happen.

I personally don't think there was a second person. I think he was in that movie theater many times. He probably tried out that door many times. I can't see him NOT doing a test run beforehand

I wonder if they had cameras in the theater. I know our local one does. Actually both do and one is just a dollar theater.

The guy is described as a loner.
Doesn't appear that he even had close friends.

JDB
07-21-2012, 09:23 PM
From what was being said last night. It sounded like the LE feels he acted alone.

sherbetjello
07-21-2012, 09:24 PM
I

Since James Holmes' only spoken indication of his "dark side" was saying, "i am the joker" does anyone know exactly what the jokers MO is in this movie???

I read this in the last thread, Ledger did not have red hair in that movie -- it was always GREEN or washed green/yellow.

From what I remember, the Joker in that movie was a ruthless robber.

Here is a good synopsis link:

http://batman.wikia.com/wiki/The_Joker_(Heath_Ledger)

JBean
07-21-2012, 09:25 PM
yes we need a source for that youtube interview, please.

wfgodot
07-21-2012, 09:25 PM
President Obama heading to visit shooting victims, families (http://bigstory.ap.org/article/obama-heading-visit-shooting-victims-families) (AP)

---
In his weekly radio address, Obama called for prayer and reflection on the shooting rampage in Aurora, Colo., which claimed 12 lives. He urged Americans to embrace the families who lost loved ones in Aurora and to "let them know we will be there for them as a nation."
---
more at the link

Benny08
07-21-2012, 09:26 PM
Yeah, pretty sure that kid didn't realize that the shooter entered, exited and re-entered in his gear. That canister from the other direction is interesting but he's probably wrong there too.

Zoe Bogart
07-21-2012, 09:27 PM
I heard at least one guy say there was a second person (probably the one in the video above) but everyone else said the shooter was alone, especially the people who were sitting down in front near that door.

Although I believe one female said the bombs came from both sides, but she was sitting way up high in the theatre and could have just seen reflections from the events on the movie screen. I don't know. All other witnesses I've heard said "one person".

I'm also thinking they assumed the guy who went out the door wasn't the shooter, when in reality, it was.

panthera
07-21-2012, 09:29 PM
The guy is described as a loner.
Doesn't appear that he even had close friends.

That is what I understood too after watching hours of coverage today.

HMSHood
07-21-2012, 09:29 PM
Details on Colorado Shooting Suspect James Holmes
http://www.insideedition.com/news/8592/details-on-colorado-shooting-suspect-james-holmes.aspx

I know this is from Inside Edition, so I don't know how reliable they are. This caught my attention.

Criminal profiler Pat Brown says Holmes is evidently a psychopath and she wouldn't be surprised if he had long history of mental problems.

"Nobody can commit a mass murder like this unless he's a psychopath. This is not a normal person who snapped. He was not healthy psychologically up until this particular day. This is a person who has always had problems with other people," said Brown.

Benny08
07-21-2012, 09:29 PM
I don't think anyone has mentioned seeing JH and his red hair before the film have they? Did anyone say they remember him from before the movie?

sherbetjello
07-21-2012, 09:33 PM
Not releasing the mugshot and covering his head while getting booked is disturbing me for some reason.

I feel that they would want the public to see that this disgrace is in the right spot; jail.

pinkwaterlily
07-21-2012, 09:33 PM
I suddenly wish I knew the plot/story to the Dark Knight. I'm going to have to read about it.

Since James Holmes' only spoken indication of his "dark side" was saying, "i am the joker" does anyone know exactly what the jokers MO is in this movie??? Does he use explosives, create traps for LE, etc? I'm just wondering if this guy is emulating something and wondering if he hasn't rigged more surprises to come. I really know NOTHING about Batman and am regretting that now!


The Joker's motive was to create chaos, which he succeeds in doing to some extent. The apt quote is something along the lines of "Some men like to watch the world burn." He does use explosives (both successfully and unsuccessfully) and creates traps for LE in a more roundabout way. The Joker does not rig an apartment to blow but uses a cellphone bomb to escape from the jail while most of the police and Batman are trying to rescue two District Attorneys in separate locations rigged with oil (or kerosene or gasoline, do not remember if it was specified) drums.

One irony to keep in mind is that Batman's origin story is that he watched a mugger murder his parents by shooting them so he does not use guns. He is suppose to be more of a thinking superhero.

It is also not the Joker who is the Batman villain that has red hair - it is the Riddler but he has not appeared in any of the recent Batman movies, only in one of the ones in the 90s.

shadowraiths
07-21-2012, 09:34 PM
Okay, found a number of research papers discussing MicroRNA (MiRNA aka micro ribonucleic acid) biomarkers and possible correlation to various psychiatric disorders, to include but not limited to schizophrenia, bipolar, and autism. These papers primarily address MicroRNA dysregulation.

Here ( link (http://www.plosone.org/article/info:doi/10.1371/journal.pone.0000873) ) is a peer-reviewed paper that is freely accessible.

MiRNA appears to be quite closely tied to genetic research, which is one of the many reasons I was trying to find more. Esp considering that this guy not only rigged his apartment but didn't suicide and immediately clammed up after telling LE about his place. I admittedly came away wondering if he had much, much, more nefarious plans, such as some sort of bioweapon, up his sleeve. Or rather, in his apartment.

Being totally unfamiliar with this field, I remain at a loss. However, since there are so many incredibly bright folk here, am hoping someone can/will clarify whether (or not) this is even something to be concerned about.

ETA ~ there is also this customer review ( link (http://reviews.invitrogen.com/1160/A1014201/reviews.htm) ) which indicates he was playing around with binding "something" to neural stem cell substrates.

Zoe Bogart
07-21-2012, 09:35 PM
Here's another eyewitness statement.

Colorado mourns after theater shooting

http://www.9news.com/default.aspx

Benji_UK
07-21-2012, 09:35 PM
Hi everyone,

I have to say this is a fascinating case. I have never heard of someone shooting up a cinema / booby-trapping up his own place before. I have been watching the coverage here in the UK. I have a few questions ..

When James Holmes left the cinema to get his weapons, did he leave the fire door propped open?

How long did the shooting last?

Any ideas if he had been to that cinema before?

rollinginit
07-21-2012, 09:37 PM
I don't know if this has been bought up.....by the org. " to write Love on her arms" says that in one of the tv interviews in front of the parents (shooters) home yesterday....that bumper sticker was on their car.....TWLOHA.

You can read their statement on their web site.

Benny08
07-21-2012, 09:39 PM
Hi everyone,

I have to say this is truly a fascinating case. I have never heard of someone shooting up a cinema / booby-trapping up his own place before. I have been watching the coverage here in the UK. I have a few questions ..

When James Holmes left the cinema to get his weapons, did he leave the fire door propped open?

How long did the shooting last?

Any ideas if he had been to that cinema before?

Yes he propped the door ajar.

Shooting lasted only a couple minutes.

He's probably been to that theater several times would be my guess. He'd probably at least driven around it a few times and I bet even watched movies and went out the back door to see what happens. But that's just a guess.

badhorsie
07-21-2012, 09:40 PM
Not releasing the mugshot and covering his head while getting booked is disturbing me for some reason.

I feel that they would want the public to see that this disgrace is in the right spot; jail.

It disturbs me too, I wonder why we are not allowed to see his face...

passionflower
07-21-2012, 09:41 PM
Not releasing the mugshot and covering his head while getting booked is disturbing me for some reason.

I feel that they would want the public to see that this disgrace is in the right spot; jail.

I am thinking he disfigured himself or someone helped tatoo him or something that LE must find out how/when etc.
All other mass murderers that were captured always had mugshots released.

scorekeeper
07-21-2012, 09:42 PM
An eyewitness said;


“From what we saw he wasn’t alone, he had somebody with him. A second can of tear gas came from the other side… what he was wearing was thick, so I think he would stand out in a crowd”.


James Holmes Possible Second Shooter in tragic Batman Denver Shooting Eyewitness Account - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yoPqz4bQqJY&feature=player_embedded)

I don't have an exact MSM link but I thought he bought a ticket, came into #9, went out fire door and proped it open so he could get back in. At which time, I thought he went to his car, dressed in full body armour, got his guns and came back in.

Zoe Bogart
07-21-2012, 09:42 PM
Hi everyone,

I have to say this is truly a fascinating case. I have never heard of someone shooting up a cinema / booby-trapping up his own place before. I have been watching the coverage here in the UK. I have a few questions ..

When James Holmes left the cinema to get his weapons, did he leave the fire door propped open?

How long did the shooting last?

Any ideas if he had been to that cinema before?

Witnesses said the shooting lasted only a short time, maybe one to two minutes, but it seemed like forever.

Obviously he been to the theatre before to know the lay of it, where to park his car, and how to get in and out of the door.

I haven't heard if he propped the door. I wouldn't think he did although he probably fixed it so it would close but not lock, which can be done by putting tape or taping cardboard or a slime credit card over the latch hole.

When people say he propped the door, do they mean he left it wide open? Maybe I'm misunderstanding.

IzzyBlanche
07-21-2012, 09:43 PM
I cannot imagine the agony his parents are feeling. They are his victims, too.:moo:

PenelopePetunia
07-21-2012, 09:45 PM
I read this in the last thread, Ledger did not have red hair in that movie -- it was always GREEN or washed green/yellow.

From what I remember, the Joker in that movie was a ruthless robber.

Here is a good synopsis link:

http://batman.wikia.com/wiki/The_Joker_(Heath_Ledger)

That is what I was trying to say earlier. The Riddler, on the other hand, had red hair. The Joker's hair is green!

matou
07-21-2012, 09:46 PM
What were his plans after committing the murders and trying to blow up his apartment? Get arrested? Leave the country? Did he have any aliases set up?

mrsu
07-21-2012, 09:46 PM
I wonder if James Holmes could face federal charges for killing two soldiers.

On CNN it said there were 4 military members.

PenelopePetunia
07-21-2012, 09:46 PM
I cannot imagine the agony his parents are feeling. They are his victims, too.:moo:

So true. This act of violence will have a ripple effect over hundreds of people.
May they be blessed with comfort at this time.

sherbetjello
07-21-2012, 09:47 PM
That is what I was trying to say earlier. The Riddler, on the other hand, had red hair. The Joker's hair is green!

Could be based off the comics though?

Here is from a part of Dark Knight, where a character in the story starts shooing in a movie theater.

http://i.imgur.com/cAKMD.jpg

Twitter is a flurry of comic related posts.

Benji_UK
07-21-2012, 09:48 PM
Yes he propped the door ajar.

Shooting lasted only a couple minutes.

He's probably been to that theater several times would be my guess. He'd probably at least driven around it a few times and I bet even watched movies and went out the back door to see what happens. But that's just a guess.

Thanks Benny.

This picture (http://relentlesslife.files.wordpress.com/2012/07/article-2176377-1426433e000005dc-40_634x426.jpg) just shows how close his car and the fire exit was.

He does seem like an organised guy, so as you say, he probably has good knowledge of that particular cinema.

If his motive is due to frustrations concerning his education, why did he target a cinema? Unless, of course, he just went for an easy option of a packed crowd in the middle of the night. Anyways, I'm sure his motive will come out in due course.

HMSHood
07-21-2012, 09:49 PM
Thanks Benny.

This picture (http://relentlesslife.files.wordpress.com/2012/07/article-2176377-1426433e000005dc-40_634x426.jpg) just shows how close his car and the fire exit was.

He does seem like an organised guy, so as you say, he probably has good knowledge of that particular cinema.

If his motive is due to frustrations concerning his education, why did he target a cinema? Unless, of course, he just went for an easy option of a packed crowd in the middle of the night. Anyways, I'm sure his motive will come out in due course.

That is what I am wondering too. He was struggling academically, but chose a movie theater to attack.

badhorsie
07-21-2012, 09:50 PM
AURORA - The father of the six-year old who was killed in the movie theater shooting told 9NEWS that his daughter meant more to him than anything in the world.

More at link (http://www.9news.com/news/article/278927/188/Father-She-is-the-last-girl-I-will-ever-love), including a photo of this precious little girl

shadowraiths
07-21-2012, 09:50 PM
Holmes had help: Aurora shooting witnesses indicate potential accomplices ( link (http://www.examiner.com/article/holmes-had-help-aurora-shooting-witnesses-indicate-potential-accomplices) )
Rustyn Rose
Examiner. July 21, 2012


Corbin Date was seated in the second row of the Century 16 theater in Aurora, Colo. when Holmes entered the theater. Date told the press and authorities that he saw the alleged shooter, James Holmes take a seat in the front row near the exit door. Holmes acted as if he received a phone call and went to the emergency door which opened onto the parking lot. Date told police it appeared as if Holmes was waving someone else to the door before he stepped outside.

[...]

Date described the shooter as approximately 5’9”. Holmes stands 6’3”, a full half foot taller. While it is easy to misgauge height under such circumstances, it is a noticeable difference.

Another witness, seen in the video at left, stated a second canister was thrown from the opposite side of the theater indicating a potential accomplice as well.

Comment: This may be why they're not releasing his mugshot as well as covering his face. That is, to mitigate potential eyewitness testimony issues.

Rallihanna
07-21-2012, 09:51 PM
They haven't released the mug shot... but we're going to see him Monday won't we? Well guess not.. they won't necessarily have cameras or video.

SmoothOperator
07-21-2012, 09:54 PM
Does anyone know where any photos are of the layout of these particular theaters in century 16??.. i couldnt locate any but just quickly looked.. am curious to see their exact layout as they were said to have actual second floor balcony seating.. anyone know?

badhorsie
07-21-2012, 09:55 PM
I don't know if this has been bought up.....by the org. " to write Love on her arms" says that in one of the tv interviews in front of the parents (shooters) home yesterday....that bumper sticker was on their car.....TWLOHA.

You can read their statement on their web site.

Mum is a psychiatic nurse

rollinginit
07-21-2012, 09:55 PM
I do wonder why they won't show the mugshot. That is strange

Maybe has has something wrote on his face in sharpie....or he had a tattoo on his face. It can't be bc of the hair color.

Unless....hahahaha...the cops blacked his eyes really good when they found him

PenelopePetunia
07-21-2012, 09:56 PM
Could be based off the comics though?

Here is from a part of Dark Knight, where a character in the story starts shooing in a movie theater.

http://i.imgur.com/cAKMD.jpg

Twitter is a flurry of comic related posts.

Yes I am trying to KEEP up with twitter. I did some research on comics. On the riddler and the joker.

Quite interesting.

panthera
07-21-2012, 09:57 PM
Witnesses said the shooting lasted only a short time, maybe one to two minutes, but it seemed like forever.

Obviously he been to the theatre before to know the lay of it, where to park his car, and how to get in and out of the door.

I haven't heard if he propped the door. I wouldn't think he did although he probably fixed it so it would close but not lock, which can be done by putting tape or taping cardboard or a slime credit card over the latch hole.

When people say he propped the door, do they mean he left it wide open? Maybe I'm misunderstanding.

Not sure of the method he used, other than preventing the door from closing so he could use it to re-enter the theater.

MOO

SmoothOperator
07-21-2012, 09:58 PM
Last night it was stated the shooting began at 1230 almost exactly 10 mins into the actual movie.. they asked was there a certain scene of violence occurring when it began aand they said no, it was actually just a scene between Bruce and the butler.. they said first 911 call was at 1239..

mrsu
07-21-2012, 09:59 PM
AURORA - The father of the six-year old who was killed in the movie theater shooting told 9NEWS that his daughter meant more to him than anything in the world.

More at link (http://www.9news.com/news/article/278927/188/Father-She-is-the-last-girl-I-will-ever-love), including a photo of this precious little girl

I'm not trying to be judgmental, but WHY in the world was a 6yo (and other small children) at a midnight viewing of The Dark Knight Rises?? It is NOT a children's movie! And the movie was almost 3 hours long.

debirlfan
07-21-2012, 10:00 PM
The neighbor said the music started at midnight and stopped at 1am. She checked after the music played for a while. Since it was so loud, she went knocking at his door and had the feeling the door was unlocked, but didn't open it.

Chances are that if the music started at midnight, it was at least 10-15 minutes before she went to investigate. If the apartment called him when she touched the door, it would have taken him a few minutes to go outside and "gear up."

Neighbor said that after going back to her own apartment, she called police to report the music, and by then they were dealing with the shooting. I wouldn't be surprised if she walked back downstairs and maybe debated for a few minutes if she should call before she actually did. I'd say the times seem to fit pretty close...

Zoe Bogart
07-21-2012, 10:00 PM
On CNN it said there were 4 military members.

Two sailors and two airmen. One sailor and one airman murdered. I believe the other two were wounded, but they are alive.

Benji_UK
07-21-2012, 10:00 PM
Usually a small block of wood placed in-between the gap does the trick when it comes to leaving a fire exit just about open. I imagine he used something similar.

Benny08
07-21-2012, 10:02 PM
Last night it was stated the shooting began at 1230 almost exactly 10 mins into the actual movie.. they asked was there a certain scene of violence occurring when it began aand they said no, it was actually just a scene between Bruce and the butler.. they said first 911 call was at 1239..

I thought the shooting started at 1239? I know that some witnesses have said as soon as the shooting started they immediately called 911. So probably withing 10 seconds of shots the phone was ringing.

ggg
07-21-2012, 10:03 PM
Not sure of the method he used, other than preventing the door from closing so he could use it to re-enter the theater.

MOO

How did he prevent the emergency exit door alarm from sounding?

Benny08
07-21-2012, 10:05 PM
How did he prevent the emergency exit door alarm from sounding?

It probably had no alarm. I've left a movie out the back door before and no alarm went off. That was probably 15+ years ago though.

mrsu
07-21-2012, 10:05 PM
I doubt any of the people even saw what he looked like in the dark theater with a gas mask on, running for their lives.

And there is MOST DEFINITELY a scene in The Dark Knight where Heath Ledger dons a red wig and acts like a nurse. Whether it matters or not, I don't know, but I posted a link in the last thread. That's one of my favorite movies. :)

JDB
07-21-2012, 10:05 PM
They haven't released the mug shot... but we're going to see him Monday won't we? Well guess not.. they won't necessarily have cameras or video.

Be honest with you . I could give a rats arse to see his face again. Maybe when he is sentenced to death for killing 12 innocent people. And I do hope federal charges are brought up for murdering those that serve and protect us.

mrsu
07-21-2012, 10:06 PM
The story is on 48 HOURS right now.

Zoe Bogart
07-21-2012, 10:07 PM
Holmes had help: Aurora shooting witnesses indicate potential accomplices ( link (http://www.examiner.com/article/holmes-had-help-aurora-shooting-witnesses-indicate-potential-accomplices) )
Rustyn Rose
Examiner. July 21, 2012


Corbin Date was seated in the second row of the Century 16 theater in Aurora, Colo. when Holmes entered the theater. Date told the press and authorities that he saw the alleged shooter, James Holmes take a seat in the front row near the exit door. Holmes acted as if he received a phone call and went to the emergency door which opened onto the parking lot. Date told police it appeared as if Holmes was waving someone else to the door before he stepped outside.

[...]

Date described the shooter as approximately 5’9”. Holmes stands 6’3”, a full half foot taller. While it is easy to misgauge height under such circumstances, it is a noticeable difference.

Another witness, seen in the video at left, stated a second canister was thrown from the opposite side of the theater indicating a potential accomplice as well.

Comment: This may be why they're not releasing his mugshot as well as covering his face. That is, to mitigate potential eyewitness testimony issues.

This is his video:

http://www.9news.com/default.aspx

BigCat
07-21-2012, 10:07 PM
Shooting suspect had federal grant, university says

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/07/21/shooting-suspect-had-federal-grant-university-says/

mysterygirl
07-21-2012, 10:09 PM
The witness that saw the guy taking the phone call......did he give a description?

sherbetjello
07-21-2012, 10:10 PM
Shooting suspect had federal grant, university says

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/07/21/shooting-suspect-had-federal-grant-university-says/

You can rule out the insanity theory here, that's for sure.

Mind boggling, isn't it?

rollinginit
07-21-2012, 10:10 PM
Okay. I'm gonna tell y'all the dirty secret about the emergency exits. The few times I have dragged my hubby, he goes out the exit to smoke. He uses a candy box and sticks it between the knob and hole the knob goes into. I think when we seen the hunger games...there was already a tissue paper stuck in the hole of the knob. Sometimes there is already a wood chunk on the ground to stick and hold the door.

Zoe Bogart
07-21-2012, 10:10 PM
They haven't released the mug shot... but we're going to see him Monday won't we? Well guess not.. they won't necessarily have cameras or video.

Channel 9 KUSA said they were given permission to live stream the court proceeding.

sapoho
07-21-2012, 10:14 PM
Video of the bombs being detonated:

http://www.9news.com/video/default.aspx?bctid=1747378887001

IzzyBlanche
07-21-2012, 10:15 PM
I'm not trying to be judgmental, but WHY in the world was a 6yo (and other small children) at a midnight viewing of The Dark Knight Rises?? It is NOT a children's movie! And the movie was almost 3 hours long.

I figure they expected their small children to sleep through it rather than watch it.

Benny08
07-21-2012, 10:16 PM
Okay. I'm gonna tell y'all the dirty secret about the emergency exits. The few times I have dragged my hubby, he goes out the exit to smoke. He uses a candy box and sticks it between the knob and hole the knob goes into. I think when we seen the hunger games...there was already a tissue paper stuck in the hole of the knob. Sometimes there is already a wood chunk on the ground to stick and hold the door.

Yes this. And if there is supposedly an alarm it's probably BS. I worked at a place that had alarmed exits and they were never turned on lol.

Bravo
07-21-2012, 10:16 PM
Cant remember if i said this earlier but i wonder if his mugshot is simply inappropriate to show. Especially right now. Disrespectful to the Victims and Families. If reports are accurate and he was spitting and carrying on I can believe he would not cooperate for a mugshot.

mrsu
07-21-2012, 10:17 PM
2 victims yet in the hospital were shot in the face. 1 has already lost an eye and needed 3 surgeries. :( PER 48 HOURS

IzzyBlanche
07-21-2012, 10:17 PM
They usually have a big red sign warning that an alarm will sound in the office if you open the door--check it out the next theater you are in.



With all due respect, please, as the moderators have already requested, stop. We are here to discuss the case, not gun control politics.

rollinginit
07-21-2012, 10:18 PM
IMO....I think he picked the movie theater bc.....OMG, think about it, no security alarms, mostly young workers, most have no security, LARGE crowds, condensed crowds, and easy to control and keep an eye on the crowd. Most have 2 double doors and the two emergency exits. Easy to keep an eye on.

mrsu
07-21-2012, 10:20 PM
One of the most complex and brilliant he's ever seen. Said about shooter in regards to the bombs and booby traps. Bomb specialist per 48 HOURS

mrsu
07-21-2012, 10:21 PM
He had even booby trapped his fridge. per 48 HOURS

IzzyBlanche
07-21-2012, 10:23 PM
Okay, with the latest news that evidence shows he planned this attack for months, I officially rescind my opinion posted earlier that there was some fairly recent trigger that caused him to snap.

Anyone who plans something that elaborately has numerous opportunities to cancel the plans.

Bravo
07-21-2012, 10:23 PM
48 hours is doing excellent coverage

mrsu
07-21-2012, 10:24 PM
Found key evidence in dumpsters and trash. Found receipts and shipping labels. Had 90 packages delivered to address on campus. per 48 HOURS

Roxye
07-21-2012, 10:24 PM
I think it is inappropriate to question the parents for having their children at the showing! Be it 4 months old or 6 years old. Until last night, a movie theater WAS a safe place. NO violence had ever happened before.....other then in THIS movie!

These parents are in NO way at fault!!! Questioning them only adds to the defense of the EVIL man that did this!

PenelopePetunia
07-21-2012, 10:25 PM
He had even booby trapped his fridge. per 48 HOURS

He really was quite serious. Really curious what is motive was. Scary to think all this could be bought online. As per 48 hrs. he had packages sent to his campus address.

ggg
07-21-2012, 10:26 PM
AURORA, CO -- A man who was at the Colorado movie theater where a dozen people were killed this morning, says he saw the gunman.

He says he thinks someone deliberately let the gunman inside once the movie started.

Here's what he told TV station KCNC this morning live on their newscast.

Expanded coverage

"As I was sitting down to get my seat, I noticed that a person came up to the front row, the front right, sat down, and as credits were going, it looked like he got a phone call. He went out toward the emergency exit doorway, which I thought was unusual to take a phone call. And it seemed like he probably pried it open, or probably did not let it latch all the way. As soon as the movie started, somebody came in, all black, gas mask, armor, and threw a gas can into the audience, and it went off, and then there were gunshots that took place."
http://www.wkyc.com/news/article/252995/396/Witness-Someone-let-gunman-inside-Colorado-movie-theater-

Benny08
07-21-2012, 10:26 PM
48 hours is doing excellent coverage

Thanks, I guess I have to wait until it airs on the west coast. What episode does it say is supposed to be on?

debirlfan
07-21-2012, 10:27 PM
Okay, found a number of research papers discussing MicroRNA (MiRNA aka micro ribonucleic acid) biomarkers and possible correlation to various psychiatric disorders, to include but not limited to schizophrenia, bipolar, and autism. These papers primarily address MicroRNA dysregulation.

Here ( link (http://www.plosone.org/article/info:doi/10.1371/journal.pone.0000873) ) is a peer-reviewed paper that is freely accessible.

MiRNA appears to be quite closely tied to genetic research, which is one of the many reasons I was trying to find more. Esp considering that this guy not only rigged his apartment but didn't suicide and immediately clammed up after telling LE about his place. I admittedly came away wondering if he had much, much, more nefarious plans, such as some sort of bioweapon, up his sleeve. Or rather, in his apartment.

Being totally unfamiliar with this field, I remain at a loss. However, since there are so many incredibly bright folk here, am hoping someone can/will clarify whether (or not) this is even something to be concerned about.

ETA ~ there is also this customer review ( link (http://reviews.invitrogen.com/1160/A1014201/reviews.htm) ) which indicates he was playing around with binding "something" to neural stem cell substrates.


A different thought...

Is there any way this guy could have been experimenting on himself (whether via drugs or some sort of biological agent) that, for want of a better term, "messed up his brain?"

scorekeeper
07-21-2012, 10:28 PM
48 hours reported......spent either $12,000 or $15,000 this past few months??? I know he was getting paid but that's a lot of money for a grad student to have. I have kids in college and they are lucky if they have $200 a month to spend...

Benny08
07-21-2012, 10:29 PM
48 hours reported......spent either $12,000 or $15,000 this past few months??? I know he was getting paid but that's a lot of money for a grad student to have. I have kids in college and they are lucky if they have $200 a month to spend...

Credit cards.

Blue_Dolphin308
07-21-2012, 10:29 PM
Someone mentioned that they only defense this guy would have was insanity. I believe that he can;'t even claim this. This was all premeditated.

1. He ordered guns, ammo, and chemicals, months in advance
2. he booby trapped his apartment
3. he set his music to loop, trying to lure someone to open that door.
4. He purchased a movie ticket,
5. he went out the door, knowing full well what he was gonna do
6. he surrendered to police

Someone who is mentally ill would not pre plan all that he did. Nor would they have everything set up perfectly. If someone snapped, or had a psychotic break they don't take time to think about their actions, they just react. He took a lot of time to plan this out, so an insanity defense may not even work here. The only thing he may be able to claim is being a sociopath, and even then that won't get him off, he will still be doing hard time.

I think the only thing that might save him from the Death penatly is that he told the police that his apartment was booby trapped. This helped to save many more lives.

Benji_UK
07-21-2012, 10:29 PM
Any ideas how long he has been planning this? I bet he is kicking himself concerning the flat - that didn't go to plan.

Bravo
07-21-2012, 10:31 PM
Thanks, I guess I have to wait until it airs on the west coast. What episode does it say is supposed to be on?

48 hours Tragedy in Aurora

wfgodot
07-21-2012, 10:33 PM
Insanity Defense (http://www.enotes.com/criminal-law-reference/insanity-defense) (enotes.com)

COLORADO: M'Naghten Rule with irresistible impulse test, burden of proof on state

Zoe Bogart
07-21-2012, 10:34 PM
Video of the bombs being detonated:

http://www.9news.com/video/default.aspx?bctid=1747378887001

Thanks, I've been waiting to see it again. I watched it live, full screen, and it was stunning. Imagine if those explosions had gone off in that apartment!

debirlfan
07-21-2012, 10:35 PM
They usually have a big red sign warning that an alarm will sound in the office if you open the door--check it out the next theater you are in.

There might be a sign, but if people habitually sneak out to smoke, etc - then is the alarm actually turned on? I don't imagine it would go over well with the other patrons if the alarm was often triggered in non-emergency situations. The perp might even have tried opening the door at this theater sometime in the past to see if it actually did trigger an alarm.

Bravo
07-21-2012, 10:35 PM
Someone mentioned that they only defense this guy would have was insanity. I believe that he can;'t even claim this. This was all premeditated.

1. He ordered guns, ammo, and chemicals, months in advance
2. he booby trapped his apartment
3. he set his music to loop, trying to lure someone to open that door.
4. He purchased a movie ticket,
5. he went out the door, knowing full well what he was gonna do
6. he surrendered to police

Someone who is mentally ill would not pre plan all that he did. Nor would they have everything set up perfectly. If someone snapped, or had a psychotic break they don't take time to think about their actions, they just react. He took a lot of time to plan this out, so an insanity defense may not even work here. The only thing he may be able to claim is being a sociopath, and even then that won't get him off, he will still be doing hard time.

I think the only thing that might save him from the Death penatly is that he told the police that his apartment was booby trapped. This helped to save many more lives.

I have posted I believe his Defense will try. I expect them to. That's all they have. Will it stick? No. I dont think the DP will be spared with the magnitude of this crime :moo:

jjenny
07-21-2012, 10:35 PM
Details on Colorado Shooting Suspect James Holmes
http://www.insideedition.com/news/8592/details-on-colorado-shooting-suspect-james-holmes.aspx

I know this is from Inside Edition, so I don't know how reliable they are. This caught my attention.

Criminal profiler Pat Brown says Holmes is evidently a psychopath and she wouldn't be surprised if he had long history of mental problems.

"Nobody can commit a mass murder like this unless he's a psychopath. This is not a normal person who snapped. He was not healthy psychologically up until this particular day. This is a person who has always had problems with other people," said Brown.

Psychopath-that something I would expect Pat Brown to say. She pretty much always gives out this diagnosis. By the way the reporter completely misinterpreted her. Her quote is that he "always had problems with other people" but the reporter somehow interprets it into "long history of mental problems." And by the way nothing suggests he actually did have problems with other people, since he was described as shy, quiet and a loner.

IzzyBlanche
07-21-2012, 10:36 PM
Cant remember if i said this earlier but i wonder if his mugshot is simply inappropriate to show. Especially right now. Disrespectful to the Victims and Families. If reports are accurate and he was spitting and carrying on I can believe he would not cooperate for a mugshot.

IDK but IIRC and I very well may not, there has been no other case of mass killing where the mugshot wasn't released out of respect for the victims.

mrsu
07-21-2012, 10:36 PM
I think it is inappropriate to question the parents for having their children at the showing! Be it 4 months old or 6 years old. Until last night, a movie theater WAS a safe place. NO violence had ever happened before.....other then in THIS movie!

These parents are in NO way at fault!!! Questioning them only adds to the defense of the EVIL man that did this!

I can appreciate your opinion, however, having seen the movie last night, the characters in the movie are killing and picking off people left and right just as the shooter did in the theater. I am not saying it is their fault by any means, but I am entitled to my opinion that a midnight showing of a very violent movie that lasts 3 hours is not the place for a 6yo.

katydid23
07-21-2012, 10:36 PM
48 hours reported......spent either $12,000 or $15,000 this past few months??? I know he was getting paid but that's a lot of money for a grad student to have. I have kids in college and they are lucky if they have $200 a month to spend...

My sons gf is starting grad school next semester. She just got a student loan check for 12, 000 bucks last month. She has to make that last for quite awhile, but since JH was not going to school anymore he could have spent it all at once if he wanted to.

panthera
07-21-2012, 10:37 PM
Credit cards.

Especially if the purchases were online, shipped to his address.

Unfortunately there weren't any "red flags" with the c/c issuer.......

:(

MOO

Benny08
07-21-2012, 10:37 PM
48 hours Tragedy in Aurora

Thanks. That title is not in my guide. What time did it start where you are? I got one coming up at 8pm and 9pm on CBS.

jjenny
07-21-2012, 10:39 PM
Someone mentioned that they only defense this guy would have was insanity. I believe that he can;'t even claim this. This was all premeditated.

1. He ordered guns, ammo, and chemicals, months in advance
2. he booby trapped his apartment
3. he set his music to loop, trying to lure someone to open that door.
4. He purchased a movie ticket,
5. he went out the door, knowing full well what he was gonna do
6. he surrendered to police

Someone who is mentally ill would not pre plan all that he did. Nor would they have everything set up perfectly. If someone snapped, or had a psychotic break they don't take time to think about their actions, they just react. He took a lot of time to plan this out, so an insanity defense may not even work here. The only thing he may be able to claim is being a sociopath, and even then that won't get him off, he will still be doing hard time.

I think the only thing that might save him from the Death penatly is that he told the police that his apartment was booby trapped. This helped to save many more lives.

Being sociopath or psychopath doesn't qualify someone for legal insanity.

Bravo
07-21-2012, 10:40 PM
IDK but IIRC and I very well may not, there has been no other case of mass killing where the mugshot wasn't released out of respect for the victims.

Good point. I am just stating if he is laughing and carrying on like the lunatic he is not I think the public doesn't need to see it right now. I know what he looks like. I'm sure the reason will come to light.

jjenny
07-21-2012, 10:40 PM
48 hours reported......spent either $12,000 or $15,000 this past few months??? I know he was getting paid but that's a lot of money for a grad student to have. I have kids in college and they are lucky if they have $200 a month to spend...

He might have been maxing out his credit cards. It's not like he is going to need good credit.

scorekeeper
07-21-2012, 10:41 PM
Thanks. That title is not in my guide. What time did it start where you are? I got one coming up at 8pm and 9pm on CBS.

shows as West Memphis 3 on my guide...

maedlamsmom
07-21-2012, 10:41 PM
Thanks. That title is not in my guide. What time did it start where you are? I got one coming up at 8pm and 9pm on CBS.

The website said it is preempting the story "West Memphis Three: Free" if that helps.

Bravo
07-21-2012, 10:41 PM
Thanks. That title is not in my guide. What time did it start where you are? I got one coming up at 8pm and 9pm on CBS.

10 p.m. EST

Benny08
07-21-2012, 10:42 PM
shows as West Memphis 3 on my guide...

Beautiful. I got that one listed at 9pm, thanks!

IzzyBlanche
07-21-2012, 10:43 PM
AURORA, CO -- A man who was at the Colorado movie theater where a dozen people were killed this morning, says he saw the gunman.

He says he thinks someone deliberately let the gunman inside once the movie started.

Here's what he told TV station KCNC this morning live on their newscast.

Expanded coverage

"As I was sitting down to get my seat, I noticed that a person came up to the front row, the front right, sat down, and as credits were going, it looked like he got a phone call. He went out toward the emergency exit doorway, which I thought was unusual to take a phone call. And it seemed like he probably pried it open, or probably did not let it latch all the way. As soon as the movie started, somebody came in, all black, gas mask, armor, and threw a gas can into the audience, and it went off, and then there were gunshots that took place."
http://www.wkyc.com/news/article/252995/396/Witness-Someone-let-gunman-inside-Colorado-movie-theater-

The guy going out and the guy coming in were most likely the same person. Nothing in this story indicates someone let the guy in.

Not directed at the O/P, just conjecture on the story.

debirlfan
07-21-2012, 10:43 PM
Any ideas how long he has been planning this? I bet he is kicking himself concerning the flat - that didn't go to plan.

According to this:

http://news.yahoo.com/police-colo-suspect-planned-attack-months-232812400.html

It sounds like he's been planning it for four months or more. IMHO, that would indicate to me that it's got nothing to do with his recent grades - if anything, his grades started falling either because he was so busy plotting this, or because he knew he wouldn't be going to school much longer and didn't care.

Bravo
07-21-2012, 10:44 PM
Yes I'll bet 48 hours is a special tonight and regular programming preempted

IzzyBlanche
07-21-2012, 10:45 PM
Someone mentioned that they only defense this guy would have was insanity. I believe that he can;'t even claim this. This was all premeditated.

1. He ordered guns, ammo, and chemicals, months in advance
2. he booby trapped his apartment
3. he set his music to loop, trying to lure someone to open that door.
4. He purchased a movie ticket,
5. he went out the door, knowing full well what he was gonna do
6. he surrendered to police

Someone who is mentally ill would not pre plan all that he did. Nor would they have everything set up perfectly. If someone snapped, or had a psychotic break they don't take time to think about their actions, they just react. He took a lot of time to plan this out, so an insanity defense may not even work here. The only thing he may be able to claim is being a sociopath, and even then that won't get him off, he will still be doing hard time.

I think the only thing that might save him from the Death penatly is that he told the police that his apartment was booby trapped. This helped to save many more lives.

Agreed.

At heart the insanity defense is that the perpetrator did not understand what he/she was doing was wrong.

That will be difficult if not impossible to prove here.

panthera
07-21-2012, 10:47 PM
Someone mentioned that they only defense this guy would have was insanity. I believe that he can;'t even claim this. This was all premeditated.

1. He ordered guns, ammo, and chemicals, months in advance
2. he booby trapped his apartment
3. he set his music to loop, trying to lure someone to open that door.
4. He purchased a movie ticket,
5. he went out the door, knowing full well what he was gonna do
6. he surrendered to police

Someone who is mentally ill would not pre plan all that he did. Nor would they have everything set up perfectly. If someone snapped, or had a psychotic break they don't take time to think about their actions, they just react. He took a lot of time to plan this out, so an insanity defense may not even work here. The only thing he may be able to claim is being a sociopath, and even then that won't get him off, he will still be doing hard time.

I think the only thing that might save him from the Death penatly is that he told the police that his apartment was booby trapped. This helped to save many more lives.
It is quite doubtful a jury would believe an insanity defense, however, being caught at the scene combined with what he had in his apartment, it is probably the only thing his defense could be able to try. There certainly isn't any doubt he is the perpetrator, in my opinion.

As for being saved from the DP by telling LE the apartment was booby-trapped, he put their lives at risk, the lives of everyone in the building, and countless manhours to get the devices out of the apartment. He may think telling them may spare his life, but again, it probably won't work. It is my belief he told them as a dare, such as "see if you're smarter than I am".

MOO

mrsu
07-21-2012, 10:47 PM
Thanks. That title is not in my guide. What time did it start where you are? I got one coming up at 8pm and 9pm on CBS.

Mine says the West Memphis 3 episode. :)

LinasK
07-21-2012, 10:48 PM
I think somehow, his education/study got into his head.

He is studying this :

Biological Basis of Psychiatric and Neurological Disorders
NRSC 7614 - Spring 2012

Department of Psychiatry and Neuroscience Program

Jason Tregellas, PhD, Course Director

These suggested reading materials are an educational resource for UCD faculty and students taking NRSC 7614, a course offered at UCSOM during the spring in even-numbered years.



Alzheimer's D​isease, by Christopher Filley, MD

Alzheimer's disease. Cummings JL. N Engl J Med. 2004 Jul 1;351(1):56-67

Alzheimer's disease. Querfurth HW, LaFerla FM. N Engl J Med. 2010 Jan 28;362(4):329-44. ​

Multiple Sclerosis, by Timothy Vollmer, M.D.

Cognitive reserve

Demyelination, Inflammation, and Neurodegeneration in Multiple Sclerosis Deep Gray Matter

Evidence for progressive gray matter loss in patients with relapsingremitting MS

Inflammation, demyelination, and degeneration — Recent insights from MS pathology

Pathophysiology of implammation and tissue injury in ms What ar the targets for therapy​
Traumatic Brain Injury, by David Arciniegas, M.D.



Movement Disorders, by Al Anderson, M.D.



Substance Abuse, by Nancy Zahniser, Ph.D.



Depression, by Christopher Schneck, M.D.

http://www.ucdenver.edu/academics/co.../NRSC7614.aspx (http://www.ucdenver.edu/academics/colleges/medicalschool/departments/psychiatry/PsychEducation/interdepttraining/NRSC7614/Pages/NRSC7614.aspx) I am fairly confident in saying that I don't believe it was anything in the above coursework of his that caused him to commit the murders. In college I got my Bachelor's in Linguistics with a Minor in Cognitive Psychology, and my Master's in Communicative Disorders because I was fascinated with the study of the Brain.(I studied most of the above topics, and did my Thesis on Alzheimer's). I also have a strong interest in True Crime, as evidenced by my presence on Websleuths. For 13 years, I used my studies to help people with brain disorders as a Speech-Language Pathologist, not to harm people!!! This guy clearly had other issues going on with him, his eyes look creepy in his photos that have been in the news and his smirk is evil, not "normal",IMO.:twocents:

scorekeeper
07-21-2012, 10:48 PM
Guess he won't be repaying his student loans, unless somehow the government can garnish his future wages

debirlfan
07-21-2012, 10:48 PM
IDK but IIRC and I very well may not, there has been no other case of mass killing where the mugshot wasn't released out of respect for the victims.

I'm betting that he was wearing full Joker make-up - it may even have been applied with some sort of permanent or semi-permanent dye (like magic-marker) so that it was not easily removed.

jjenny
07-21-2012, 10:50 PM
Guess he won't be repaying his student loans, unless somehow the government can garnish his future wages

What future wages is he going to have?

wfgodot
07-21-2012, 10:51 PM
Agreed.

At heart the insanity defense is that the perpetrator did not understand what he/she was doing was wrong.

That will be difficult if not impossible to prove here.
In Colorado, the burden of proof is on the state.

http://www.enotes.com/criminal-law-reference/insanity-defense

Zoe Bogart
07-21-2012, 10:52 PM
Thanks. That title is not in my guide. What time did it start where you are? I got one coming up at 8pm and 9pm on CBS.

It's almost over now. I tuned in about 35 minutes ago. (9 pm, Central time)

shadowraiths
07-21-2012, 10:53 PM
A different thought...

Is there any way this guy could have been experimenting on himself (whether via drugs or some sort of biological agent) that, for want of a better term, "messed up his brain?"
This is something I also wondered...

Rallihanna
07-21-2012, 10:53 PM
Watching the tv... how eerie... old comic, man with red hair shoots up that theater. I know it's been talked about on here, but this made it come to life.

IzzyBlanche
07-21-2012, 10:54 PM
I can appreciate your opinion, however, having seen the movie last night, the characters in the movie are killing and picking off people left and right just as the shooter did in the theater. I am not saying it is their fault by any means, but I am entitled to my opinion that a midnight showing of a very violent movie that lasts 3 hours is not the place for a 6yo.

As I posted before, they may have kept the child up past his/her usual nap so he/she would sleep through it.

My parents had me when they were very young and naive and this was exactly the kind of thing they might have done.

And I also agree with the OP that no parents, however naive, would have ever expected a crowded movie theater--which I am sure had added security for this event--to turn into a killing field.

zvzvzv
07-21-2012, 10:54 PM
if there was a system in place to call his phone when his
apartment was to explode, theoretically the calling device
would have been destroyed before completing the call.
he could have simply set a timed bomb in his apartment
for midnight which would have diverted first responders.
thankfully he didn't think of that, but considering the
methodical planning involved in this, the apartment
bomb plot seems sloppy.

buffetoflies
07-21-2012, 10:54 PM
I'm not trying to be judgmental, but WHY in the world was a 6yo (and other small children) at a midnight viewing of The Dark Knight Rises?? It is NOT a children's movie! And the movie was almost 3 hours long.

My thought was that they just didn't want to spend money on a sitter. The 'sleeping thru the movie' is questionable to me, b/c a ticket was bought for them, although the ticket was probs about $10, and to pay a sitter it would have been around $50...

Benji_UK
07-21-2012, 10:55 PM
According to this:

http://news.yahoo.com/police-colo-suspect-planned-attack-months-232812400.html

It sounds like he's been planning it for four months or more. IMHO, that would indicate to me that it's got nothing to do with his recent grades - if anything, his grades started falling either because he was so busy plotting this, or because he knew he wouldn't be going to school much longer and didn't care.

You could well be right.

jjenny
07-21-2012, 10:56 PM
In Colorado, the burden of proof is on the state.

http://www.enotes.com/criminal-law-reference/insanity-defense

I hope the feds get to try him.
He was ordering stuff on-line, right? At least some possibly from other states? Doesn't that mean Feds could try him?

jjenny
07-21-2012, 10:57 PM
if there was a system in place to call his phone when his
apartment was to explode, theoretically the calling device
would have been destroyed before completing the call.
he could have simply set a timed bomb in his apartment
for midnight which would have diverted first responders.
thankfully he didn't think of that, but considering the
methodical planning involved in this, the apartment
bomb plot seems sloppy.

The apparent bomb plot almost worked. His neighbor almost went in by her own admission. She knocked on the door, was thinking of going in, but decided not to.

Reannan
07-21-2012, 10:57 PM
Just got home from gonig to see the Batman movie tonight. I generally do not go to movies - I am on the interenet instead!!! :crazy: It was sort of surreal being in the movie and trying to figure out what I would do if under assault, and thinking about all of the victims and what they would have experienced. So incredibly sad!!!! My impression is that the movie has a very political overtone, and I predict this crime will as well. In the movie, the "primary" villain - Bane, is a horrible person, but once you learn his story, there is room to have sympathy for him. I will say no more about that for the sake of those who have not yet seen the movie.

Rallihanna
07-21-2012, 10:58 PM
I don't think we should be judgemental against the victims here.. JMHO

wfgodot
07-21-2012, 10:59 PM
I hope the feds get to try him.
He was ordering stuff on-line, right? At least some possibly from other states? Doesn't that mean Feds could try him?
Dunno. State shouldn't have many problems disproving insanity defense though it will be a drag on resources. Colorado is one of the few states, post-Hinckley, that still require the state to do so.

Lava
07-21-2012, 10:59 PM
Any ideas how long he has been planning this? I bet he is kicking himself concerning the flat - that didn't go to plan.

I really am interested in how long he had this in mind. I know he started receiving packages about 4 months ago - but he had to be planning it before that. How long was he at this school for? It makes me wonder if he picked this community, due to the closeness of Columbine. Very curious about this.

scorekeeper
07-21-2012, 10:59 PM
3 of the gentlemen killed were shielding their friend/girlfriends from the bullets.......RIP

mrsu
07-21-2012, 10:59 PM
I wonder:

1. Did he REALLY live in that apartment? How could you? It would have taken a serious amount of time to get all those booby traps wired. Would he do that AND live there? On 48 HOURS a couple of his neighbors from his building said they rarely saw him. In fact, I think 1 of them said she had never seen him.

2. Thinking about the possibility of an accomplice...I wonder if it was actually the shooter who took a seat in that front row? Perhaps it was an accomplice and shooter called accomplice once he had arrived and everything was in place. By all accounts a person left thru the emergency exit, and then another entered with the guns. I would imagine it would have taken him quite sometime to go out into his car and get dressed in all his gear, how would he be back so soon? I wonder if the person who he sat next to has given a description of what this person looked like? Was it someone with red hair? What if it wasn't? Maybe that's why we aren't seeing the mugshot??

3. IIRC wasn't it mentioned that a 4th gun was found in the theater? Does anyone remember this? On 48 HOURS tonight it said that he had purchased 4 guns over the last year, 2 of them were handguns. Did someone else have the 2nd one?

mysterygirl
07-21-2012, 11:00 PM
But if he bought a ticket then went out to his car and came back he wouldn't have had time for full face makeup.

Unless he went in that way........?

IzzyBlanche
07-21-2012, 11:01 PM
I am fairly confident in saying that I don't believe it was anything in the above coursework of his that caused him to commit the murders. In college I got my Bachelor's in Linguistics with a Minor in Cognitive Psychology, and my Master's in Communicative Disorders because I was fascinated with the study of the Brain.(I studied most of the above topics, and did my Thesis on Alzheimer's). I also have a strong interest in True Crime, as evidenced by my presence on Websleuths. For 13 years, I used my studies to help people with brain disorders as a Speech-Language Pathologist, not to harm people!!! This guy clearly had other issues going on with him, his eyes look creepy in his photos that have been in the news and his smirk is evil, not "normal",IMO.:twocents:

Funny you should say this, because a therapist friend of mine told me that he could tell instantly from his mugshot that J. Laughner (is that correct? too lazy to look it up right now, but I am referring to the guy who shot Gabrielle Giffords) was off his rocker (not the term my friend used of course) because of the vacancy in his eyes.

That was the first thing that sprang to mind when I saw that picture of JH. The same sort of quality about the eyes.

jjenny
07-21-2012, 11:02 PM
But if he bought a ticket then went out to his car and came back he wouldn't have had time for full face makeup.

Unless he went in that way........?

I don't think it takes long to put on Joker type make up.

IzzyBlanche
07-21-2012, 11:02 PM
In Colorado, the burden of proof is on the state.

http://www.enotes.com/criminal-law-reference/insanity-defense

??

The burden of proof (to prove a crime) is on the state in any state.

But in an insanity defense, the burden of proof for insanity is on the defense. Isn't it? Why would prosecutors try to prove an insanity defense?

I don't understand.

wfgodot
07-21-2012, 11:03 PM
??

The burden of proof is on the state in any state.

But in an insanity defense, the burden of proof for insanity is on the defense.
No, it's not. Not in Colorado.

It's one of eight states where the burden of proof is on the prosecution.

COLORADO: M'Naghten Rule with irresistible impulse test, burden of proof on state.
http://www.enotes.com/criminal-law-reference/insanity-defense

orora
07-21-2012, 11:03 PM
Two witnesses now say two perps were involved? Shooter is 5'9" ish Holmes is 6'3". Would any eyewitness not knowing Holmes really be able to recognize who left the theater let alone whether it were the same who returned to do the shooting? Did one let another in? How long between one leaving and the other entering? Was it even Holmes doing the shooting? Proof? Why aren't we seeing his face?

Defence issues can arise from any number of issues. The early live stuff is critical to watch and record. Wish I had recorded the movie clip of the Gangster Squad theater shooting.

Reannan
07-21-2012, 11:04 PM
I wonder:

1. Did he REALLY live in that apartment? How could you? It would have taken a serious amount of time to get all those booby traps wired. Would he do that AND live there? On 48 HOURS a couple of his neighbors from his building said they rarely saw him. In fact, I think 1 of them said she had never seen him.

2. Thinking about the possibility of an accomplice...I wonder if it was actually the shooter who took a seat in that front row? Perhaps it was an accomplice and shooter called accomplice once he had arrived and everything was in place. By all accounts a person left thru the emergency exit, and then another entered with the guns. I would imagine it would have taken him quite sometime to go out into his car and get dressed in all his gear, how would he be back so soon? I wonder if the person who he sat next to has given a description of what this person looked like? What it someone with red hair? What if it wasn't? Maybe that's why we aren't seeing the mugshot??

3. IIRC wasn't it mentioned that a 4th gun was found in the theater? Does anyone remember this? On 48 HOURS tonight it said that he had purchased 4 guns over the last year, 2 of them were handguns. Did someone else have the 2nd one?

All of your questions are excellent. I remember hearing there was a 4th gun, but it was in his car. This was a HIGHLY organized and planned crime. When did he start the plans, and did anyone help him? Waiting to hear....

jjenny
07-21-2012, 11:06 PM
Two witnesses now say two perps were involved? Shooter is 5'9" ish Holmes is 6'3". Would any eyewitness not knowing Holmes really be able to recognize who left the theater let alone whether it were the same who returned to do the shooting? Did one let another in? How long between one leaving and the other entering? Was it even Holmes doing the shooting? Proof? Why aren't we seeing his face?

Defence issues can arise from any number of sources. The early live stuff is critical to watch and record. Wish I had recorded the movie clip of the Gangster Squad theater shooting.

Shooter is 5'9" and you know that how? Was somebody measuring the shooter during the shooting?

SmoothOperator
07-21-2012, 11:10 PM
I wonder:

1. Did he REALLY live in that apartment? How could you? It would have taken a serious amount of time to get all those booby traps wired. Would he do that AND live there? On 48 HOURS a couple of his neighbors from his building said they rarely saw him. In fact, I think 1 of them said she had never seen him.

2. Thinking about the possibility of an accomplice...I wonder if it was actually the shooter who took a seat in that front row? Perhaps it was an accomplice and shooter called accomplice once he had arrived and everything was in place. By all accounts a person left thru the emergency exit, and then another entered with the guns. I would imagine it would have taken him quite sometime to go out into his car and get dressed in all his gear, how would he be back so soon? I wonder if the person who he sat next to has given a description of what this person looked like? What it someone with red hair? What if it wasn't? Maybe that's why we aren't seeing the mugshot??

3. IIRC wasn't it mentioned that a 4th gun was found in the theater? Does anyone remember this? On 48 HOURS tonight it said that he had purchased 4 guns over the last year, 2 of them were handguns. Did someone else have the 2nd one?

1) he did live there in fact one of his neighbors stated he saw him leaving his apt the evening of the shooting as he was loading black duffel bags into his car. The neighbor says he spoke to him, but that he did not reply with so much as even a hi!..

2) while I know some believe it to possible or even likely(according to some) that he had an accomplice IMO he acted alone.. As far as the mug shot being kept out of public for reasons that it would show a different male and the persons sitting next to him would recognize it was a different person.. IMO this isn't the reason as theyve released the arrestee/suspects name and we have plenty of pics that the witnesses would already be able to see and say hey that's not him.. So IMO that's not the cause for their with holding the mug shot..

3) the fourth gun, which was the other glock handgun was recovered from the suspects car..


____________________...
Posting via mobile as well as via tablet so plz forgive all typos.. Btwn the sucky touch keyboard and the obsessive auto-correct it's a big ol' mess :crazy:

Lava
07-21-2012, 11:10 PM
Two witnesses now say two perps were involved? Shooter is 5'9" ish Holmes is 6'3". Would any eyewitness not knowing Holmes really be able to recognize who left the theater let alone whether it were the same who returned to do the shooting? Did one let another in? How long between one leaving and the other entering? Was it even Holmes doing the shooting? Proof? Why aren't we seeing his face?

Defence issues can arise from any number of sources. The early live stuff is critical to watch and record. Wish I had recorded the movie clip of the Gangster Squad theater shooting.


This is actually very common in situations like this. Conflicting witness statements, confusion, plus the fact that looks like he did buy a ticket - go out and come back in. I can see how people, trying to pay attention to trailers or the movie itself wouldn't notice if the phone call person came back in before the shooter. Police are confident that he acted alone, and so am I.

Benny08
07-21-2012, 11:13 PM
I wonder:

1. Did he REALLY live in that apartment? How could you? It would have taken a serious amount of time to get all those booby traps wired. Would he do that AND live there? On 48 HOURS a couple of his neighbors from his building said they rarely saw him. In fact, I think 1 of them said she had never seen him.

2. Thinking about the possibility of an accomplice...I wonder if it was actually the shooter who took a seat in that front row? Perhaps it was an accomplice and shooter called accomplice once he had arrived and everything was in place. By all accounts a person left thru the emergency exit, and then another entered with the guns. I would imagine it would have taken him quite sometime to go out into his car and get dressed in all his gear, how would he be back so soon? I wonder if the person who he sat next to has given a description of what this person looked like? Was it someone with red hair? What if it wasn't? Maybe that's why we aren't seeing the mugshot??

3. IIRC wasn't it mentioned that a 4th gun was found in the theater? Does anyone remember this? On 48 HOURS tonight it said that he had purchased 4 guns over the last year, 2 of them were handguns. Did someone else have the 2nd one?

Good post. It was said earlier today that the shooter asked some neighbors across the way in another building if they had any open apts for rent. Maybe he wanted to expand his explosives or maybe the place he was staying in was getting a little cramped with all the booby-traps etc.

I still don't buy the accomplice thing but I suppose it's possible. I think he left the theater at 1230, that's when people first noticed the guy go outside right? Then the shooting starts at 1239. His car was right out that back door. 9 minutes to gear up and move inside sounds about right to me.

jjenny
07-21-2012, 11:13 PM
This is actually very common in situations like this. Conflicting witness statements, confusion, plus the fact that looks like he did buy a ticket - go out and come back in. I can see how people, trying to pay attention to trailers or the movie itself wouldn't notice if the phone call person came back in before the shooter. Police are confident that he acted alone, and so am I.

It is very common. Description of suspects/number of suspects/race of suspects can vary widely.
I don't believe this guy had an accomplice. He is described as a loner.
It'd have to be a pretty close friend to act as an accomplice in something like that-like in Columbine shooting, the two of the high school students were hanging together a lot. And nobody said this guy was constantly hanging out with anyone.

IzzyBlanche
07-21-2012, 11:14 PM
No, it's not. Not in Colorado.

It's one of eight states where the burden of proof is on the prosecution.

http://www.enotes.com/criminal-law-reference/insanity-defense

Thank you.

I'm sorry. I'm obviously being dumb. I still don't understand.

You are prosecuting someone whom you don't believe is insane but instead acted willfully, yet you have to prove he's insane?

How does that work? :waitasec:

debirlfan
07-21-2012, 11:15 PM
if there was a system in place to call his phone when his
apartment was to explode, theoretically the calling device
would have been destroyed before completing the call.
he could have simply set a timed bomb in his apartment
for midnight which would have diverted first responders.
thankfully he didn't think of that, but considering the
methodical planning involved in this, the apartment
bomb plot seems sloppy.

At a guess - calling device is rigged to call him when someone turns the doorknob/rattles the door. Bombs are set to go off when someone actually enters and hits a trip wire. Normally there would be only seconds between the two, but that should be long enough to put the call through. Pretty sneaky and smart, if that's what he did. He just never counted on neighbor not actually opening the door.

SmoothOperator
07-21-2012, 11:15 PM
Two witnesses now say two perps were involved? Shooter is 5'9" ish Holmes is 6'3". Would any eyewitness not knowing Holmes really be able to recognize who left the theater let alone whether it were the same who returned to do the shooting? Did one let another in? How long between one leaving and the other entering? Was it even Holmes doing the shooting? Proof? Why aren't we seeing his face?

Defence issues can arise from any number of sources. The early live stuff is critical to watch and record. Wish I had recorded the movie clip of the Gangster Squad theater shooting.

So do you think it's a conspiracy to protect the name of the shooter and the "real person" who was arrested?.. Because we've been given the name of the shooter as well as the name of the man arrested for the litany of crimes including first degree murder(tho not formally charged of course).. These two persons(shooter/arrestee) are one and the same, JEH..


____________________...
Posting via mobile as well as via tablet so plz forgive all typos.. Btwn the sucky touch keyboard and the obsessive auto-correct it's a big ol' mess :crazy:

scorekeeper
07-21-2012, 11:16 PM
perhaps this was answered earlier; why did the car have Tennessee plates?

mrsu
07-21-2012, 11:19 PM
1) he did live there in fact one of his neighbors stated he saw him leaving his apt the evening of the shooting as he was loading black duffel bags into his car. The neighbor says he spoke to him, but that he did not reply with so much as even a hi!..

2) while I know some believe it to possible or even likely(according to some) that he had an accomplice IMO he acted alone.. As far as the mug shot being kept out of public for reasons that it would show a different male and the persons sitting next to him would recognize it was a different person.. IMO this isn't the reason as theyve released the arrestee/suspects name and we have plenty of pics that the witnesses would already be able to see and say hey that's not him.. So IMO that's not the cause for their with holding the mug shot..

3) the fourth gun, which was the other glock handgun was recovered from the suspects car..


____________________...
Posting via mobile as well as via tablet so plz forgive all typos.. Btwn the sucky touch keyboard and the obsessive auto-correct it's a big ol' mess :crazy:

Okay, so the 4th gun was in the car, I was mistaken about that.

Regarding #1. To me that doesn't say he lived there, only that he was leaving from there that day. Who knows how often he stayed there?

#2. How do you know this? From everything we have heard from the gear he was wearing, it hair was not even visible from under the helmet. There is quite a good chance, IMO, that people were not even able to see what he looked like especially with the gas mask on in the dark. They said they were not releasing the mugshots for "investigative" reasons. What else could it be?

I am very very interested in knowing if there are video cameras in the parking lot and around the movie theater.

Tucarra
07-21-2012, 11:20 PM
Not sure of the method he used, other than preventing the door from closing so he could use it to re-enter the theater.

MOO

As a long time smoker, exiting my own workplace or other buildings to sneak a puff, (ackk...shouldn't be smoking),there are numerous and easy ways to keep a door 'propped open'...pebble, matchbook, cigarette pack, brochure, program, popcorn pack...you name it....

wfgodot
07-21-2012, 11:21 PM
Thank you.

I'm sorry. I'm obviously being dumb. I still don't understand.

You are prosecuting someone whom you don't believe is insane but instead acted willfully, yet you have to prove he's insane?

How does that work? :waitasec:
No, you have to prove he's not insane. The defense just makes the claim; the prosecution has to disprove it.

I wasn't up on my law either and blinked twice when I saw that. But, in many states, that used to be the case, until, post-Hinckley-verdict, many shifted the burden.

mrsu
07-21-2012, 11:23 PM
This is actually very common in situations like this. Conflicting witness statements, confusion, plus the fact that looks like he did buy a ticket - go out and come back in. I can see how people, trying to pay attention to trailers or the movie itself wouldn't notice if the phone call person came back in before the shooter. Police are confident that he acted alone, and so am I.

Not trying to be argumentative but just wondering have they said for sure they have him 100% on video purchasing a ticket to the movie? Seems like that has just been assumed up to this point.

Rallihanna
07-21-2012, 11:26 PM
What am I missing? I thought he had a mask on- where is there a report that he was wearing makeup?

debirlfan
07-21-2012, 11:27 PM
Two witnesses now say two perps were involved? Shooter is 5'9" ish Holmes is 6'3".

I think the nature of a theater (with each set of seats a few inches higher than the preceding row) might tend to throw off an estimate of height.

debirlfan
07-21-2012, 11:29 PM
What am I missing? I thought he had a mask on- where is there a report that he was wearing makeup?

No report, just speculation regarding why the police might not be showing his booking photo, and why other prisoners at the jail reported him being brought in with a towel hiding his face.

mrsu
07-21-2012, 11:29 PM
What am I missing? I thought he had a mask on- where is there a report that he was wearing makeup?

No, there is not. People are assuming that is a reason they might not be showing the mugshot?

Sonya610
07-21-2012, 11:31 PM
Not sure if this has been mentioned but he TOLD the police the apartment was booby trapped when they apprehended him.

Plus if the timed music was a lure to get someone to the apartment why not leave the door open a crack? Many folks won't open a closed door but if it was already open they very well might push it open more. Better still why not just rig it to go off remotely with a cell phone or some such thing? He invested so much research/time/money in those explosives why not be sure they go boom?

As far as the alarms on movie theater doors, many years ago I worked at a theater and when we have full crowds the ushers would often tell people to exit through those back doors because the lobby was full of people waiting to enter for the next show. People would often decide to use them on their own instead of waiting for the crowds to go through the lobby too. In theaters they aren't just used for emergencies.

mrsu
07-21-2012, 11:32 PM
I think the nature of a theater (with each set of seats a few inches higher than the preceding row) might tend to throw off an estimate of height.

On 48 HOURS one witness said the person who went to the door seemed to wave to someone, the he saw 2 shadows, one a bit shorter than the other.

scorekeeper
07-21-2012, 11:33 PM
If someone saw him loading black duffel bags in his car, was his hair colored red? Perhaps he had a hat on?

If he was asking about other apartments, was he expecting his to be blown to pieces?

If he had pointed his gun(s) at LE, would they have not opened fire?

Did he not have time to get in his car and drive away? Was he casually standing there waiting on LE to arrive?

jjenny
07-21-2012, 11:34 PM
Not sure if this has been mentioned but he TOLD the police the apartment was booby trapped when they apprehended him. Why bother rigging the apartment if he didn't want anyone to go in it?

Plus if the timed music was a lure to get someone to the apartment why not leave the door open a crack? Many folks won't open a closed door but if it was already open they very well might go inside.

As far as the alarms on movie theater doors, many years ago I worked at a theater and when we have full crowds the ushers would often tell people to exit through those back doors because the lobby was full of people waiting to enter for the next show. People would often decide to use them on their own instead of waiting for the crowds to go through the lobby too. In theaters they aren't just used for emergencies.

Why not leave the door open? Because it was set to blow up when somebody opened the door? If the door were already opened what would cause it to blow up?

Rallihanna
07-21-2012, 11:38 PM
I swore the neighbor downstairs said on Fox at one point that the door was just "slightly" ajar and that's how she knew it was unlocked... but in later interviews she didn't say it again.

wfgodot
07-21-2012, 11:38 PM
Not sure if this has been mentioned but he TOLD the police the apartment was booby trapped when they apprehended him.
snip

Here's a link for that info:

Holmes told police shortly after he was apprehended in the rear parking lot of the movie theater that he had rigged his apartment, [Chief] Oates said.

cnn.com (http://www.cnn.com/2012/07/20/us/colorado-shooting-suspect-apartment/index.html)

scorekeeper
07-21-2012, 11:39 PM
Why not leave the door open? Because it was set to blow up when somebody opened the door? If the door were already opened what would cause it to blow up?

The trip wire?

jjenny
07-21-2012, 11:41 PM
I swore the neighbor downstairs said on Fox at one point that the door was just "slightly" ajar and that's how she knew it was unlocked... but in later interviews she didn't say it again.

No, she said it rattled when she knocked on it.

Benny08
07-21-2012, 11:42 PM
I swore the neighbor downstairs said on Fox at one point that the door was just "slightly" ajar and that's how she knew it was unlocked... but in later interviews she didn't say it again.

What she said was the door was closed, but she could tell it wasn't locked when she was knocking on the door. She could tell that it was unlocked because her door is the same way it has a certain rattle to it when it's unlocked.

shadowraiths
07-21-2012, 11:44 PM
Two portraits of suspect James Holmes emerge ( link (http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/story/2012-07-21/james-holmes-suspected-colorado-shooter/56397778/1) )
By Marisol Bello, Elizabeth Weise and Susan Gembrowski
USA TODAY, July 21, 2012


Those who knew Holmes in the upscale San Diego community where he grew up remember a polite young man who kept to himself and excelled academically.
"He was really talented, really smart," said Porsche Parkman, 19, who attended Westview High School with Holmes' younger sister, Chris. Holmes graduated from the school in 2006. "He was so nice and his family was always there for him. Nothing seemed wrong."

[...]

Oates said the FBI Behavioral Analysis Unit is working with local police to figure out a motive for the shooting.

Holmes seems to have little online presence. Unlike many people his age, he does not have accounts on Twitter, Facebook or other social media.

[...]

William Parkman marveled at how Holmes had gone from a proud example of a successful graduate of their high school to one of the most hated people in the country.

"The news reports you hear about him, it's as if people are talking about one person in San Diego and one in Colorado," Parkman said. "Who he is now is not who he was in San Diego."

jjenny
07-21-2012, 11:45 PM
I don't see the two portraits. It's the same portrait. A loner who kept to himself.

mrsu
07-21-2012, 11:48 PM
I swore the neighbor downstairs said on Fox at one point that the door was just "slightly" ajar and that's how she knew it was unlocked... but in later interviews she didn't say it again.

Yes, on 48 HOURS she said it moved slightly when she touched it. So I do think he left it slightly ajar, presumably if LE came to check out the loud music, they wouldn't have to bang down the door and would be more likely to push it open and glance in. Then BOOM!

wfgodot
07-21-2012, 11:48 PM
"Two portraits of killer" = lazy journalism.

mrsu
07-21-2012, 11:49 PM
I don't understand about asking about a new apartment. Did he think his would be blown up? Did he think he wouldn't get caught? Maybe he wanted to live somewhere else while building the traps? What is the significance?

PenelopePetunia
07-21-2012, 11:50 PM
Here is a map of the events:

Map (http://www.usatoday.com/News/Interactives/Gunman_kills_12_at_Batman_movie_premiere.htm)

jjenny
07-21-2012, 11:51 PM
I don't understand about asking about a new apartment. Did he think his would be blown up? Did he think he wouldn't get caught? Maybe he wanted to live somewhere else while building the traps? What is the significance?

Probably it was beginning to be difficult to live in his old one with not triggering all the booby traps and all. I suspect he wanted to live somewhere else while building the traps. I don't see how he envisioned not getting caught.

IzzyBlanche
07-21-2012, 11:52 PM
No, you have to prove he's not insane. The defense just makes the claim; the prosecution has to disprove it.

I wasn't up on my law either and blinked twice when I saw that. But, in many states, that used to be the case, until, post-Hinckley-verdict, many shifted the burden.

Thank you. I thought I was losing my mind. No pun intended.

Sonya610
07-21-2012, 11:52 PM
Yes, on 48 HOURS she said it moved slightly when she touched it. So I do think he left it slightly ajar, presumably if LE came to check out the loud music, they wouldn't have to bang down the door and would be more likely to push it open and glance in. Then BOOM!

Except the timing was off, she called the police after the shooting had already started and they didn't have the manpower to send a car to the apartment.

Still odd that he then told the police the apartment was rigged, once he was arrested they surely would have headed right over there and opened that door!

orora
07-21-2012, 11:53 PM
As far as whether there are two involved or not, I and the others posting the information are doing so from witness reports. Nothing to do with whether or not we believe that. Same as whether that means there is a conspiracy to keep a name out of it or not. Just posting the information which anyone is entitled to believe or discount. I haven't decided myself.

In regard to the apartment bomb.

mrsu
Registered User Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 1,572

One of the most complex and brilliant he's ever seen. Said about shooter in regards to the bombs and booby traps. Bomb specialist per 48 HOURS

Holmes expertice is not in this area. Bomb building is not something you can pull off to this extent without training. Maybe someone else involved? Just questioning..

Shooter was pegged at 5'9" by a witness description. Do I know that is true? No, just quoting a witness.

I have read how many believe the lone shooter theory to be true and you may all be right. Just too premature for me to abandon where else the evidence may lead.

jjenny
07-21-2012, 11:53 PM
Except the timing was off, she called the police after the shooting had already started and they didn't have the manpower to send a car to the apartment.

Still odd that he then told the police the apartment was rigged, once he was arrested they surely would have headed right over there and opened that door!

You don't know that they would have opened the door. Because they could have suspected it being rigged without him telling them.

PenelopePetunia
07-21-2012, 11:54 PM
Found this on Twitter

According to KDVR (http://kdvr.com/2012/07/20/at-least-14-killed-dozens-injured-in-shooting-at-aurora-movie-theater/)

"9:05 PM: Police are looking for a second “person of interest” in connection with the Aurora theater shooting and suspected gunman James Holmes"

SmoothOperator
07-21-2012, 11:56 PM
Well I'll be damned theyre looking for a second person of interest!?!? Wth?
http://kdvr.com/2012/07/21/police-looking-for-second-person-of-interest-in-theater-shooting/


____________________...
Posting via mobile as well as via tablet so plz forgive all typos.. Btwn the sucky touch keyboard and the obsessive auto-correct it's a big ol' mess :crazy:

jjenny
07-21-2012, 11:56 PM
Found this on Twitter

According to KDVR (http://kdvr.com/2012/07/20/at-least-14-killed-dozens-injured-in-shooting-at-aurora-movie-theater/)

"9:05 PM: Police are looking for a second “person of interest” in connection with the Aurora theater shooting and suspected gunman James Holmes"

Who exactly is tweeting that? Certainly police hasn't said anything during any press conferences about there being a second person of interest.

mrsu
07-21-2012, 11:56 PM
Here is a map of the events:

Map (http://www.usatoday.com/News/Interactives/Gunman_kills_12_at_Batman_movie_premiere.htm)

Hmmm...looking at this map, doesn't it look like from where he parked at the back of the theater he could have seen across the fields to whether his place had blown up or not?

PenelopePetunia
07-21-2012, 11:57 PM
Here is another link

Police looking for second “person of interest” in theater shooting (http://kdvr.com/2012/07/21/police-looking-for-second-person-of-interest-in-theater-shooting/)

PenelopePetunia
07-21-2012, 11:58 PM
Who exactly is tweeting that? Certainly police hasn't said anything during any press conferences about there being a second person of interest.

After the Tweet I went to KDVR's site.

The link is on my post.

mrsu
07-21-2012, 11:59 PM
Found this on Twitter

According to KDVR (http://kdvr.com/2012/07/20/at-least-14-killed-dozens-injured-in-shooting-at-aurora-movie-theater/)

"9:05 PM: Police are looking for a second “person of interest” in connection with the Aurora theater shooting and suspected gunman James Holmes"

I knew it! This was making more and more sense to me. OMG :what:

wfgodot
07-21-2012, 11:59 PM
here is another link

police looking for second “person of interest” in theater shooting (http://kdvr.com/2012/07/21/police-looking-for-second-person-of-interest-in-theater-shooting/)
wth??

Aurora, Colo. — sources tell fox31 denver reporter justin joseph that a second man is now a person-of-interest in the Aurora theater shooting investigation. We are not disclosing his identity because he has not been charged.

jjenny
07-21-2012, 11:59 PM
Here is another link

Police looking for second “person of interest” in theater shooting (http://kdvr.com/2012/07/21/police-looking-for-second-person-of-interest-in-theater-shooting/)

I am not clear from this if this person is connected or they are looking for him because of threatening phone call.
If there is more than one of them that makes terrorism more likely (for whatever reason).

SmoothOperator
07-22-2012, 12:00 AM
The person of interest’s Facebook page shows he has a master’s degree in bio-medical science.
Anshutz Medical Center confirms he is in their doctorate program, the same program from which Holmes withdrew several months ago.
Snipped from my link above..

They've had the second poi's apt staked out since last night!!


____________________...
Posting via mobile as well as via tablet so plz forgive all typos.. Btwn the sucky touch keyboard and the obsessive auto-correct it's a big ol' mess :crazy:

IzzyBlanche
07-22-2012, 12:00 AM
I don't understand about asking about a new apartment. Did he think his would be blown up? Did he think he wouldn't get caught? Maybe he wanted to live somewhere else while building the traps? What is the significance?

I wondered about this too. Especially since the inquiry was only about a week ago, correct? I could see it a few months ago if he wanted a new place to live while he booby trapped the old one.

Donyale
07-22-2012, 12:01 AM
I doubt any of the people even saw what he looked like in the dark theater with a gas mask on, running for their lives.

I think LE we will get more details when they examinate cctv / surveillance system in JH bulding /movie theater/ parking lot area, etc
He was probably filmed somewhere like Anders Breivik was.
ps: One year since the norwegian tragedy on 22 July 2011

matou
07-22-2012, 12:03 AM
The person of interest’s Facebook page shows he has a master’s degree in bio-medical science.
Anshutz Medical Center confirms he is in their doctorate program, the same program from which Holmes withdrew several months ago.

http://kdvr.com/2012/07/21/police-looking-for-second-person-of-interest-in-theater-shooting/

This article is saying the person of interest left with his roommate a few hours before the massacre.

Rallihanna
07-22-2012, 12:05 AM
Okay- so this person went to class with him it appears; bio medical.. makes sense. But did I read that both him and his roomie are missing, but they're only looking for him?

mrsu
07-22-2012, 12:05 AM
Here is another link

Police looking for second “person of interest” in theater shooting (http://kdvr.com/2012/07/21/police-looking-for-second-person-of-interest-in-theater-shooting/)

Sources tell Justin Joseph someone made a call from the person of interest’s phone threatening violence if James Egan Holmes was not released from jail. That call prompted police to issue an alert to find and detain him.

Sources also say a picture of Holmes with red hair on an adult website is what Egan looked like when he was arrested.

Neighbors recognized him instantly but they say he recently dyed his hair.

“I`ve seen him before,” said a neighbor to the person of interest.

The person of interest’s Facebook page shows he has a master’s degree in bio-medical science.

Anshutz Medical Center confirms he is in their doctorate program, the same program from which Holmes withdrew several months ago.

Who would do this for this monster? Scary!

matou
07-22-2012, 12:06 AM
Sources tell Justin Joseph someone made a call from the person of interest’s phone threatening violence if James Egan Holmes was not released from jail. That call prompted police to issue an alert to find and detain him.
Sources also say a picture of Holmes with red hair on an adult website is what Egan looked like when he was arrested.

http://kdvr.com/2012/07/21/police-looking-for-second-person-of-interest-in-theater-shooting/

jjenny
07-22-2012, 12:06 AM
I don't understand police in this situation. If they have a POI missing, shouldn't they have warned the public instead of telling them to go to the movies?

IzzyBlanche
07-22-2012, 12:11 AM
I wish the media would leave his family alone.

They are going through enough. :maddening:

From link:

Media from all over the world are still camped out in front of the home, waiting for further word from the Holmes family

http://www.10news.com/news/31292953/detail.html

What do they expect them to say? "Yeah, he told us all about his plans and we were thrilled at his initiative so we didn't tell anyone he was going to kill a bunch of people."

He's a grown man. His family isn't responsible for his actions nor is obligated to comment on them.

Disclaimer: As I've stated, I also live in Rancho Penasquitos but I don't know the Holmes family.

Rallihanna
07-22-2012, 12:11 AM
unless they don't think he was involved but rather just has information on Holmes...

jjenny
07-22-2012, 12:14 AM
unless they don't think he was involved but rather just has information on Holmes...

But then he would be a witness, not a POI?

SmoothOperator
07-22-2012, 12:14 AM
snipped from my same kdvr link:
Sources tell Justin Joseph someone made a call from the person of interest’s phone threatening violence if James Egan Holmes was not released from jail. That call prompted police to issue an alert to find and detain him.

This has me fearful. Up til now I thought the threatening phonecall demanding the shooters release from or else further violence.. I assumed it was bs..

Now seeing its true along with the fact that the caller and roommate are still unaccounted for(and with this much manpower being put into locating them yet they remain at large).. Has me very fearful that the reign of evil terror is not yet over.. If there is indeed an accomplice and he threatened further retaliation.. Why in the world would we not have every reason to believe that threat will full well come to fruition.. We've seen the ruthless evil abandon.. Human life even that of babies and small children not spared.. Whose to actually believe these involved will not full well follow thru???

And could strike anywhere!!! Anywhere!! Any mass gathering .. I'm fearful..jmo


____________________...
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matou
07-22-2012, 12:14 AM
This person "threatened violence" if Holmes was not released from jail. This is terrorism to me. JMO. The call came from the phone of the person of interest.

jjenny
07-22-2012, 12:16 AM
I think the public should be warned that police are looking for a POI who is missing.
Instead police were acting as if it was a done deal and there is nothing more to worry about.

IzzyBlanche
07-22-2012, 12:16 AM
But then he would be a witness, not a POI?

Or an aider and abetter?

Katrinka
07-22-2012, 12:17 AM
The public is interested in information on what kind of person can do such a thing. Who knows better than his family? It's huge news and the media swarm goes with the territory.

Rallihanna
07-22-2012, 12:18 AM
Do we know when the call was made? Maybe it was recent?

IzzyBlanche
07-22-2012, 12:18 AM
This has me fearful. Up til now I thought the threatening phonecall demanding the shooters release from or else further violence.. I assumed it was bs..

Now seeing its true along with the fact that the caller and roommate are still unaccounted for(and with this much manpower being put into locating them yet they remain at large).. Has me very fearful that the reign of evil terror is not yet over.. If there is indeed an accomplice and he threatened further retaliation.. Why in the world would we not have every reason to believe that threat will full well come to fruition.. We've seen the ruthless evil abandon.. Human life even that of babies and small children not spared.. Whose to actually believe these involved will not full well follow thru???

And could strike anywhere!!! Anywhere!! Any mass gathering .. I'm fearful..jmo


____________________...
Posting via mobile as well as via tablet so plz forgive all typos.. Btwn the sucky touch keyboard and the obsessive auto-correct it's a big ol' mess :crazy:

ITA. If this is true, who knows what mayhem may erupt at these people's hands.

jjenny
07-22-2012, 12:18 AM
The public is interested in information on what kind of person can do such a thing. Who knows better than his family? It's huge news and the media swarm goes with the territory.

Sometimes family doesn't have a clue.
Especially since he was not living at home.

BigCat
07-22-2012, 12:19 AM
I think LE we will get more details when they examinate cctv / surveillance system in JH bulding /movie theater/ parking lot area, etc
He was probably filmed somewhere like Anders Breivik was.
ps: One year since the norwegian tragedy on 22 July 2011

Good point. Anniversaries of other massacres are important in the minds of these mass murderers.

Timothy McVeigh chose April 19th to blow up the Murrah Building because it was the 2nd anniversary of the massacre at Waco.

The Columbine Massacre occurred on April 20th, five years later, I believe. The killers chose that date because they intended to kill more people than McVeigh.

It's possible Holmes' goal was to kill more people than Breivik. He couldn't wait until July 22nd because only opening night of The Dark Knight Rises promised a packed movie theatre.

Obviously just speculation on my part. I don't think it's out of the question. He did seem to copy many of Breivik's tactics.

JMO

wfgodot
07-22-2012, 12:19 AM
(Reuters) - The 24-year-old graduate student accused of killing 12 people in a shooting rampage at a Denver-area screening of the new "Batman" film was being held in solitary confinement for his own protection from other inmates, authorities said on Saturday.
---
Suspect in Colorado "Batman" shooting held in solitary confinement (http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/07/21/us-usa-shooting-denver-suspect-idUSBRE86K0KF20120721)

SpriteGal
07-22-2012, 12:19 AM
As someone that lives in Aurora, the possible info that somebody else could be involved has me terrified. :(

matou
07-22-2012, 12:20 AM
I think the public should be warned that police are looking for a POI who is missing.
Instead police were acting as if it was a done deal and there is nothing more to worry about.

ITA. The police have been parked at his address since TWO DAYS ago. WTF?

Could this have to do with the deli the police were checking that I remember hearing about or the apartment across the street where Holmes was looking for an apartment? :waitasec:

Rallihanna
07-22-2012, 12:21 AM
They are reporting the POI's name on some websites...

PHB
07-22-2012, 12:22 AM
If this POI was dumb enough to make the threatening call from his own phone, let's hope he makes another stupid mistake and is caught soon.

matou
07-22-2012, 12:24 AM
They are reporting the POI's name on some websites...

Reuters is MSM.

Rallihanna
07-22-2012, 12:24 AM
Facebook page is interesting.. skimmed the Friends list... but that's about all you can see.

PenelopePetunia
07-22-2012, 12:25 AM
Will keep my eyes on Twitter until I fall asleep...

wfgodot
07-22-2012, 12:25 AM
Police: Colo. suspect planned massacre for months (http://www.seattlepi.com/news/article/Bomb-squads-prepare-to-enter-Colo-suspect-s-apt-3724591.php) (AP/seattlepi.com)

AURORA, Colo. (AP) — The shooting suspect accused in a deadly rampage inside a Colorado theater planned the attack with "calculation and deliberation," police said Saturday, receiving deliveries by mail that authorities believe armed him for battle and were used to rig his apartment with dozens of bombs.

Meanwhile, new details about 24-year-old James Holmes emerged, including summer jobs the suspect held in Southern California as a camp counselor and as an intern at a prominent research institute.
---
lengthy, two-page article at link above

matou
07-22-2012, 12:25 AM
Name is here: http://live.reuters.com/Event/Colorado_Dark_Knight_Shooting

IzzyBlanche
07-22-2012, 12:26 AM
The public is interested in information on what kind of person can do such a thing. Who knows better than his family? It's huge news and the media swarm goes with the territory.

Oh. So the media is expecting the family to come out with something like, "yeah, we beat him every day of his life and that's probably what caused this"? Or, "He wet his bed until he was 19 so we're not surprised"?

Also IMO "goes with the territory" applies to someone who deliberately seeks media attention and should have known what to expect. These parents didn't.

Zoe Bogart
07-22-2012, 12:26 AM
Here is another link

Police looking for second “person of interest” in theater shooting (http://kdvr.com/2012/07/21/police-looking-for-second-person-of-interest-in-theater-shooting/)

From the above link:

"Sources tell Justin Joseph someone made either a call or a text from the person of interest’s phone threatening violence if James Egan Holmes was not released from jail. That call prompted police to issue an alert to find and detain him." :waitasec:

Would an accomplice do that? Or some nut looking for drama? Odd.

Or was this poi accepting some of the packages the accused had ordered? Curious.

Rallihanna
07-22-2012, 12:31 AM
As soon as you send a text like that, you know you're in trouble. So why send it unless you already know you are in trouble?

debirlfan
07-22-2012, 12:31 AM
I don't understand about asking about a new apartment. Did he think his would be blown up? Did he think he wouldn't get caught? Maybe he wanted to live somewhere else while building the traps? What is the significance?

I wouldn't be surprised if he was actually living/sleeping somewhere else - sounds like his apartment would have been pretty crowded, and it would have taken quite awhile to set all that stuff up.

mysterygirl
07-22-2012, 12:32 AM
OMG

I tune out for a few minutes............

I'm horrified.

SmoothOperator
07-22-2012, 12:32 AM
Deleted post due to it being duplicate info


____________________...
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wantjustice
07-22-2012, 12:32 AM
Quoting from the first thread from Mystergirl

"All valid points.

BUT.................I think this body armor deal is misleading people to think this man was invincible.

If you hit someone with a shot ....a 45 or a 357...............in full armor..........they will fall.

He is not a human tank.

That creates windows of opportunities."

Not sure how to fully quote from a closed thread. I see your points too. It is hard to know what would have happened on the road not traveled. I am not to familiar with body armor so I am not sure what would penetrate or not. Everyone was so caught off guard. That's what is so tragic about this. We will all be looking over our shoulder now that it has happened but who would of thought a summer night at the movies would be the perfect place for a mad man?! Now I do but it is so shocking. Of course I know it can happen any place any time, but I do let my guard down. I have to or I'd drive myself crazy. Not sure how the man could be stopped. The smoke, the darkness, chaos all of it would make me want to get out too. Survival kicks in and the first thing that comes to mind is get to out of that theater. I feel for the victims and the families. It is so sad and overwhelming!

PenelopePetunia
07-22-2012, 12:32 AM
Name is here: http://live.reuters.com/Event/Colorado_Dark_Knight_Shooting

Thank you!

mysterygirl
07-22-2012, 12:33 AM
So he probably had help.........

Seems more feasible.

wfgodot
07-22-2012, 12:34 AM
@ProducerMatthew = the hot "follow" for Twitterers.

orora
07-22-2012, 12:35 AM
Earlier on someone reported that they were looking for a second person at the theater of "Indian" heritage. The second poi they are now searching for appears to be of Asian ethnicity. He apparently has a missing room mate as well? The Police staked them out and waited a whole day for them to return?

I don't have twitter so wanting to make sure I got this straight.

Katrinka
07-22-2012, 12:35 AM
Also IMO "goes with the territory" applies to someone who deliberately seeks media attention and should have known what to expect. These parents didn't.
No, but their son knew.

Rallihanna
07-22-2012, 12:35 AM
Now to see if this guy is closer to 5'9"

mrsu
07-22-2012, 12:36 AM
"People are using the word 'loner' to describe him, and that's not a fair representation," said a fellow doctoral student at the University of Colorado Anschutz Medical Campus who knew Holmes and agreed to be interviewed on condition of anonymity.

"He has friends. He's quiet and keeps a low profile, but we're all like that. We're PhD students. There's not a lot of time to do other stuff," the student said.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/07/22/us-usa-shooting-denver-holmes-idUSBRE86L01220120722

IzzyBlanche
07-22-2012, 12:39 AM
So he probably had help.........

Seems more feasible.

Thank you. I agree. It does.

Even given his reported brilliance, I had trouble figuring out where all the weapons/booby trapping knowledge would have come from.

Heck for that matter I've been wondering how he knew what to do to his hair to produce just that exact color of red.

IzzyBlanche
07-22-2012, 12:40 AM
No, but their son knew.

So it's okay for them to be hounded for the actions of their son?

jjenny
07-22-2012, 12:41 AM
Thank you. I agree. It does.

Even given his reported brilliance, I had trouble figuring out where all the weapons/booby trapping knowledge would have come from.

Heck for that matter I've been wondering how he knew what to do to his hair to produce just that exact color of red.

A lot of knowledge could be off the internet.

mysterygirl
07-22-2012, 12:41 AM
Oh god I hope his pair didn't rig some surprises elsewhere in the city.....

mrsu
07-22-2012, 12:46 AM
http://www.mobypicture.com/user/yeompyo/view/7055752