View Full Version : *DEVELOPING*CO Shooting at Movie Theater #3
JBean
07-21-2012, 07:55 PM
Official List (http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/US_COLORADO_SHOOTING_VICTIMS_GLANCE?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT) of the deceased
Twelve people who died in the Colorado movie shooting have been identified by the Arapahoe County coroner.
-Jessica Ghawi, 24, of Denver; aspiring sports journalist
-Veronica Moser, 6, whose mother was critically injured
-Matt McQuinn, 27, of Denver; technical support provider
-Alex Sullivan, 27, of Aurora; worked at Red Robin restaurant
- Micayla Medek, 23, of Westminster, Colo.
-John Larimer, 27, of Buckley Air Force Base, Navy cryptologist
-Jesse Childress, 29, of Thornton, Colo., Air Force cyber-systems operator
-Gordon W. Cowden, 51
-Jonathan T. Blunk, 26
-Rebecca Ann Wingo, 32
-Alexander C. Teves, 24, earned master's degree in counseling psychology in June from University of Denver
-Alexander J. Boik, 18
Thread #1
Thread #2
Official Documents w/ Links
imamaze
07-24-2012, 11:36 AM
Reminders...
You can make general references to gun control laws, no in depth discussion on the topic.
Parents and Family members:
NO SLEUTHING them at all
You can discuss them only as to what is reported in MSM.
We are a victim friendly forum, parents and family are victims as well.
Anything unflattering or blaming in nature will be removed.
If more information comes out then this would change, but for now - these people are off limits except for what they themselves put out in the news.
We will make changes and modify rules if and when necessary.
Please Continue Here...
Astrella613
07-24-2012, 11:41 AM
Has anyone heard about this one?
http://www.unionleader.com/article/20120724/NEWS03/707239914
jjenny
07-24-2012, 11:50 AM
"Fox News has learned that the door was wired with a booby-trap and a backup system that would have triggered an explosive designed to "cut in half" the first person through the door. After that, explosions and flames would have likely consumed the entire building, presumably with the intention of trapping other residents as they slept and forcing a massive response of police and rescue personnel."
Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/07/23/colorado-massacre-gunman-entered-theater-ready-to-kill-even-more-source-says/#ixzz21VLhASX5
CARIIS
07-24-2012, 11:52 AM
People with psychological disorders may display variations in their affect:
may show little outward response to social environments
the face expressionless, and the body immobile.
display of emotion is out of context for the situation
Read more: Affect - person, people, mood, Definition, Description http://www.minddisorders.com/A-Br/Affect.html#ixzz21YTbjQWs
Manifest as a failure to express feelings either verbally or non-verbally,
Especially when talking about issues that would normally be expected to engage the emotions.
Has none or nearly no emotional expression.
Instead of being in contact with what is going on'
.
Diminishment of, or absence of, emotional expressiveness.
Blunted affect - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
songline
07-24-2012, 11:58 AM
I do not know how to bring a post forward:
this one is from OneLostGirl
Lots and lots of "normal" people kill. They snap and kill. A person does not have to be mentally ill to kill.. there are millions of mentally ill people in this world who never and would never hurt anyone. Please, please don't turn this into "only a mentally ill person could do this" because it's just not true and it makes society afraid of those of us with mental illness. Many of us with mental illness had to study hard, had stress, rejection, emotional tauma, etc... we did not kill anyone either. Mental illness does not=a killing disease.
I love you songline but Stigma Stigma Stigma
MY REPLY to OLG
If you had read other posts Where I say that many MI people are not dangerous, but some are.
You are correct many MI people live a full and healthy life. You are one of my favorite people to look up to -
you have done an amazing job and I am so proud of you.
but normal people do not kill. and temporary insanity is also not part of being normal.
this guy was MI and EVIL. I also posted that most of the world has challenges, stress,
emotional upheaval and do not kill.
I love you too :blowkiss:
songline
07-24-2012, 12:03 PM
Official List (http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/US_COLORADO_SHOOTING_VICTIMS_GLANCE?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT) of the deceased
Twelve people who died in the Colorado movie shooting have been identified by the Arapahoe County coroner.
-Jessica Ghawi, 24, of Denver; aspiring sports journalist
-Veronica Moser, 6, whose mother was critically injured
-Matt McQuinn, 27, of Denver; technical support provider
-Alex Sullivan, 27, of Aurora; worked at Red Robin restaurant
- Micayla Medek, 23, of Westminster, Colo.
-John Larimer, 27, of Buckley Air Force Base, Navy cryptologist
-Jesse Childress, 29, of Thornton, Colo., Air Force cyber-systems operator
-Gordon W. Cowden, 51
-Jonathan T. Blunk, 26
-Rebecca Ann Wingo, 32
-Alexander C. Teves, 24, earned master's degree in counseling psychology in June from University of Denver
-Alexander J. Boik, 18
Thread #1 (http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=179332)
Thread #2 (http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=179526)
:please::please::please:
the oldest one was 51 and the rest are children from 6 - 30 years of age.
most of them in thier 20's. :(
SO sad.
CARIIS
07-24-2012, 12:09 PM
That is mortifing! IMOIMOIMO
Kinda expected like a couple of punks to go buy some smoke bombs by now cause sheer and utter madness (but this time whatever place all screen and auditoriums would have people in them 0
seriouos injuries in stampede
then theatre chains go coo coo armies in theatres!
no purses no backpacks
guards at every exit
metal detectors
total over reaction
but this dude sound AHHHHHHHHHHH
and surprised we all did not "discover" this
great catch
scary
Elley Mae
07-24-2012, 12:09 PM
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/source-james-holmes-totally-faking-sleepy-act-article-1.1120735
The accused Colorado mass murderer’s catatonic courtroom appearance was all an act — and not the result of prescription medications, a jail employee told the Daily News.
James Holmes, 24, was not under the influence of any medication during his strange 12-minute cameo at the Monday hearing, the source insisted Tuesday.
“We don’t just hand out meds,” the Arapahoe County Detention Center worker told the Daily News. “It just doesn’t work like that.
“If he was acting sleepy, he was faking it,” the source added.
CARIIS
07-24-2012, 12:10 PM
Do you think he could be selling those items - what could one person do with that arsonal (unless they have 19 arms!)
JBounds
07-24-2012, 12:15 PM
This man was not mentally ill. He is just just evil. Normal people do kill. War for example. People defending themselves. They kill and they're normal.
Smart people kill, dumb people, poor, rich, drug induced, not drug induced...
This always happens when there is a mass killing or killing in general. The person must be mentally ill and is labeled as such. He knew what he was doing.
jjenny
07-24-2012, 12:16 PM
Do you think he could be selling those items - what could one person do with that arsonal (unless they have 19 arms!)
I really don't know why he would be selling items he purchased and had with him or in the car. When exactly would he plan on selling them?
21merc7
07-24-2012, 12:21 PM
This man was not mentally ill. He is just just evil. Normal people do kill. War for example. People defending themselves. They kill and they're normal.
Smart people kill, dumb people, poor, rich, drug induced, not drug induced...
This always happens when there is a mass killing or killing in general. The person must be mentally ill and is labeled as such. He knew what he was doing.
I have to agree.
And, normal people do kill, all of the time.
I think this guy just wanted to "make a name for himself". Yep, it can be that simple. I've actually heard a confession where the reason was "we were just driving around, it seemed like something to do." Just something to do.
Rallihanna
07-24-2012, 12:21 PM
If the jail employees are correct- and this was a "show" for the court and public.. a lot of people bought into it.
~n/t~
07-24-2012, 12:26 PM
This man was not mentally ill. He is just just evil. Normal people do kill. War for example. People defending themselves. They kill and they're normal.
Smart people kill, dumb people, poor, rich, drug induced, not drug induced...
This always happens when there is a mass killing or killing in general. The person must be mentally ill and is labeled as such. He knew what he was doing.
Sorry but "normal" people don't just wake up one day and decide, "oh I'm bored and devise an elaborate plan to murder hundreds of people at the movie theatre". I say that is mentally ill. Insane maybe not. Mentally ill, definitely.
I wouldn't include the military in the same category.
:moo:
21merc7
07-24-2012, 12:27 PM
Some kill because they are angry. No mental illness, just fed up.
Some kill because they caught their spouse in bed with another. That falls under crime of passion.
Some kill for money.
Some kill to be rid of a responsibility.
Some kill for the thrill.
Some kill for notoriety.
CARIIS
07-24-2012, 12:28 PM
I really don't know why he would be selling items he purchased and had with him or in the car. When exactly would he plan on selling them?
No, the guy in Maine, there were like 18 in picture
CARIIS
07-24-2012, 12:31 PM
Some kill because they are angry. No mental illness, just fed up.
Some kill because they caught their spouse in bed with another. That falls under crime of passion.
Some kill for money.
Some kill to be rid of a responsibility.
Some kill for the thrill.
Some kill for notoriety.
IMO, all those could be true, as could mental illiness!
broomboys
07-24-2012, 12:39 PM
This is in the MSM today:
"The gunman who allegedly killed 12 people during a screening of The Dark Knight Rises in Aurora, Colorado was due to be kicked out of his apartment and may have broken up with a girlfriend in the days before his shooting spree, it has emerged."
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2177294/James-Holmes-broke-girlfriend-just-Dark-Knight-Rises-shooting-spree-Colorado.html#ixzz21YiEuVpp
Does anyone have any leads on who the girlfriend is?
nutkin
07-24-2012, 12:39 PM
Apparently, he was prescribed several medications before committing the murders. So, if that is the case, the jail cannot withhold those medications from him. Now, what those medications actually are, I'm not sure.
Boytwnmom
07-24-2012, 12:46 PM
and it's been all over the news. I didn't read the linked article but I've heard the story about the guns being the same as "no-name's" and clippings about the colorado killings and he told them he had gone to the Batman movie with a gun etc. He was stopped for speeding going 112mph. Apparently he has told police he was going to shoot his employer-he had abruptly quit his job last week.
http://bostonherald.com/news/regional/view.bg?articleid=1061148009&srvc=news&position=4
Has anyone heard about this one?
http://www.unionleader.com/article/20120724/NEWS03/707239914
jjenny
07-24-2012, 12:46 PM
Apparently, he was prescribed several medications before committing the murders. So, if that is the case, the jail cannot withhold those medications from him. Now, what those medications actually are, I'm not sure.
He hasn't been put on any meds while in jail.
nutkin
07-24-2012, 12:47 PM
And I can guarantee at any jail in the country, if you come in spitting at everyone, they are going to medicate you and quickly.
jjenny
07-24-2012, 12:48 PM
And I can guarantee at any jail in the country, if you come in spitting at everyone, they are going to medicate you and quickly.
While you can guarantee it, I don't think that rumor about him spitting is accurate.
shadowraiths
07-24-2012, 12:50 PM
Old but relevant article.
They Threaten, Seethe and Unhinge, Then Kill in Quantity ( link (http://www.nytimes.com/2000/04/09/us/they-threaten-seethe-and-unhinge-then-kill-in-quantity.html) )
By FORD FESSENDEN; Reporting for this series was by Fox Butterfield, Ford Fessenden, William Glaberson and Laurie Goodstein, with research assistance from Anthony Zirilli and other members of the news research staff of The New York Times
Published: April 09, 2000
They are not drunk or high on drugs. They are not racists or Satanists, or addicted to violent video games, movies or music.
Most are white men, but a surprising number are women, Asians and blacks. Many have college degrees, but most are unemployed. Many are military veterans.
They give lots of warning and even tell people explicitly what they plan to do. They carry semiautomatic weapons they have obtained easily and, in most cases, legally.
They do not try to get away. In the end, half turn their guns on themselves or are shot dead by others. They not only want to kill, they also want to die.
That is the profile of the 102 killers in 100 rampage attacks examined by The New York Times in a computer-assisted study looking back more than 50 years and including the shootings in 1999 at Columbine High School in Littleton, Colo., and one by a World War II veteran on a residential street in Camden, N.J., in 1949. Four hundred twenty-five people were killed and 510 people were injured in the attacks. The database, which primarily focused on cases in the last decade, is believed to be the largest ever compiled on this phenomenon in the United States.
[...]
These are among the findings:
While the killings have caused many people to point to the violent aspects of the culture, a closer look shows little evidence that video games, movies or television encouraged many of the attacks. In only 6 of the 100 cases did the killers have a known interest in violent video games. Seven other killers showed an interest in violent movies.
In a decade that had a sharp decrease in almost all kinds of homicides, the incidence of these rampage killings appears to have increased, according to a separate computer analysis by The Times of nearly 25 years of homicide data from the Federal Bureau of Investigation. Still, these killings remain extremely rare, much less than 1 percent of all homicides.
Society has turned to law enforcement to resolve the rampage killings that have become almost a staple of the nightly news. There has been an increasing call for greater security in schools and in the workplace. But a closer look shows that these cases may have more to do with society's lack of knowledge of mental health issues, rather than a lack of security. In case after case, family members, teachers and mental health professionals missed or dismissed signs of deterioration.
[...]
Perhaps the aspect that most set these crimes apart, aside from their spectacular nature, was this: Regular criminals try to get away with their crimes. More than a third of regular homicides went unsolved in 1997. But among the 102 killers in the Times database, not one got away. Eighty-nine never even left the scene of the crime.
Troubled
07-24-2012, 12:52 PM
Lets please try to keep things civil. This is a very sad and tragic incident that has happened. Many people have many different theories thoughts and ideas which is ok. Its good to hear everyones point of view even if we dont agree with them. Its good to talk through things but please keep it nice.
sapoho
07-24-2012, 12:57 PM
And I can guarantee at any jail in the country, if you come in spitting at everyone, they are going to medicate you and quickly.
No. You will quickly be placed in restraints, a spit guard placed on you and moved to isolation. Jails do not take it upon themselves to dispense medication. If you are convulsing on the floor, they'll come in & take you to the hospital. If you are already on a prescription med, you do not automatically get it. It can take days for a prescription to be validated, brought in & dispensed.
I mean, did he say, Hey, I'm on XXX med and I need it!!
Ok, let me run to CVS and get that for you! Or better yet, have a friend bring in an opened bottle of pills and we'll just take your word on what it is.
He is being held in county, not State or Federal where there is typically medical staff (other than a booking nurse) employed.
jjenny
07-24-2012, 12:57 PM
Please stop. Don't make this so personal. It's not necessary.
In my Sheriff days back in CA in the late 1990's, we did NOT automatically send a spitter to the nurse's station for meds.
Spit masks, have them sit there for a few hours. Yep, worked many times.
Just my experience.
There was never any names given of who exactly claims JH is a spitter. And the jail official denied it. And another article claim JH is very polite and says "thank you" to jail employees who bring him food. There is no indication than this spitting story is any more accurate than the one about JH not being medicated while in jail.
And I can guarantee at any jail in the country, if you come in spitting at everyone, they are going to medicate you and quickly.
Not in my county.
DEPUTYDAWG
07-24-2012, 01:11 PM
Not in my county.
Agree. That's what spit masks are for.
Elley Mae
07-24-2012, 01:15 PM
http://www.denverpost.com/ci_21142116
In blog posts, at water coolers and on websites, people are endlessly speculating about the demeanor of shooting suspect James Eagan Holmes in his first courtroom appearance Monday.
Levin, the author of "Serial Killers and Sadistic Murderers: Up Close and Personal," has studied mass murderers for more than 30 years.
Holmes' alleged behavior differed from most other mass murderers, and that suggests he is psychotic, Levin said.
jjenny
07-24-2012, 01:21 PM
"Other experts, like David Eagleman, director of the Initiative on Neuroscience and the Law, believe that a schizophrenic would have a hard time following such an ambitious plan as that which Holmes allegedly devised."
Read more: Criminology professor says interpreting any expression is subjective - The Denver Post http://www.denverpost.com/ci_21142116#ixzz21ViR7BM6
Read The Denver Post's Terms of Use of its content: http://www.denverpost.com/termsofuse
Elley Mae
07-24-2012, 01:23 PM
http://www.coloradoan.com/article/20120724/NEWS11/307240008/Theater-shooting-suspect-Holmes-received-26K-year-studies?nclick_check=1
The program to which Holmes was accepted last fall admits just six students a year. Candidates have top grades and “near perfect” test scores, Shur said. They undergo a background check but no mental examination. “No program requires psychiatric evaluation, to the best of my knowledge,”
bbm
CARIIS
07-24-2012, 01:24 PM
Great post sir trying to post this and my ISP crashed !
The NYT has “found” that over 50% of all rampage killers are simply “victims of mental illness.”
1. www.navlog.org/rampage_killers.html
They plan everything about the killings, he says, except how to get away.
It's very unusual for the killer to open fire on strangers. He's much more likely to be selective in his choice of victims,"
"The more indiscriminate the massacre, the more likely it is that mental illness plays a part."
But they don't 'snap,' as you so often hear people say," Welner says. "It's more like a hinge swings open, and all this anger comes out."
http://www.businessinsider.com/scientists-explain-what-makes-a-mass-murderer-2012-7
The NYT has “found” that over 50% of all rampage killers are simply “victims of mental illness.”
2. www.navlog.org/rampage_killers.html
3.
The issue has been studied specifically per rampage killings, and about half of the individuals studied were formally diagnosed mentally ill and often schizophrenic. Many were reported as receiving no treatment for their mental illnesses or were not taking their prescribed medications prior to the rampage killings.
http://www.wrongplanet.net/postxf204653-0-75.html
It also found that rampage killers share several traits. Most are better educated than typical murderers,
Cultural influences on this group, such as violent entertainment, seemed to have little impact. Instead, the most common factor was serious mental health problems.
Most of their rampage attacks were not sudden, impulsive acts but the culmination of years of rage, depression and mental illness.
http://www.wrongplanet.net/postxf204653-0-75.html
21merc7
07-24-2012, 01:25 PM
(Reuters) - The booby-trapped apartment of the man accused of killing 12 people and wounding 58 others in last week's movie theater shooting in Colorado was effectively a "house bomb" rarely seen outside of war zones, a former FBI agent said on Tuesday.
"We've seen them in places like Iraq and Afghanistan," said Lopez, who was an explosives expert during his FBI career, which included a stint in Afghanistan. "But this is the first one that I can actually recall ever reading or seeing about in the United States where it was actually set to destroy the home."
Lopez said the array in Holmes' apartment, which police believe was designed to kill first responders, required no special training to set up.
"This kind of information exists on the Internet," Lopez said. "If you're looking to wire explosives, it is on the Internet. With a little bit of common sense, and he has quite a bit of that, he's very intelligent, he just put it all together and had something ready for the apartment."
more at link:
http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/07/24/us-usa-shooting-denver-idUSBRE86N0WT20120724
jjenny
07-24-2012, 01:27 PM
http://www.coloradoan.com/article/20120724/NEWS11/307240008/Theater-shooting-suspect-Holmes-received-26K-year-studies?nclick_check=1
The program to which Holmes was accepted last fall admits just six students a year. Candidates have top grades and “near perfect” test scores, Shur said. They undergo a background check but no mental examination. “No program requires psychiatric evaluation, to the best of my knowledge,”
bbm
I believe it would not even be legal for a school to require psychiatric evaluation.
CARIIS
07-24-2012, 01:29 PM
Not in my county.
I think in may depend on state statues, I worked forensic correctionial and they medicated immed!
*~Aimee~*
07-24-2012, 01:30 PM
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-505245_162-57478765/3-arrested-in-separate-dark-knight-incidents/
At least 3 men accused of making threats during or after watching the new Batman movie have been arrested in separate incidents, underscoring moviegoers' anxieties and heightened security in the wake of a deadly mass shooting at a Colorado theater showing the film.
CARIIS
07-24-2012, 01:31 PM
http://www.coloradoan.com/article/20120724/NEWS11/307240008/Theater-shooting-suspect-Holmes-received-26K-year-studies?nclick_check=1
The program to which Holmes was accepted last fall admits just six students a year. Candidates have top grades and “near perfect” test scores, Shur said. They undergo a background check but no mental examination. “No program requires psychiatric evaluation, to the best of my knowledge,”
bbm
I would think, especially in grad school (often small group who "travel" the program together(!) collegues, academic folks would be certainly alarmed if someones performance plummeted as it has been reported JH did.
CARIIS
07-24-2012, 01:32 PM
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-505245_162-57478765/3-arrested-in-separate-dark-knight-incidents/
At least 3 men accused of making threats during or after watching the new Batman movie have been arrested in separate incidents, underscoring moviegoers' anxieties and heightened security in the wake of a deadly mass shooting at a Colorado theater showing the film.
I saw this did your opinion of situation change when you got to the last third (I think mine was MSNBC! That one linked here in Maine is really really really scary tho !
DEPUTYDAWG
07-24-2012, 01:32 PM
I think in may depend on state statues, I worked forensic correctionial and they medicated immed!
Seriously? Just for spitting? Good Lord, we had arrestees spit at us/on us in the patrol car and we'd get to the jail and they'd spit away. Never once!!!! did we request, or did any jailer decide a person needed to be medicated because they were spitting. Geez, that seems a little extreme.
gitana1
07-24-2012, 01:32 PM
People with psychological disorders may display variations in their affect:
may show little outward response to social environments
the face expressionless, and the body immobile.
display of emotion is out of context for the situation
Read more: Affect - person, people, mood, Definition, Description http://www.minddisorders.com/A-Br/Affect.html#ixzz21YTbjQWs
Manifest as a failure to express feelings either verbally or non-verbally,
Especially when talking about issues that would normally be expected to engage the emotions.
Has none or nearly no emotional expression.
Instead of being in contact with what is going on'
.
Diminishment of, or absence of, emotional expressiveness.
Blunted affect - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blunted_affect)
According to this article, the coward who shall remain nameless had none of the symptoms of blunted affect as he went on his rampage. he sure wasn't immobile or without expression. Instead, he was running around the theater, screaming at people:
As Young lay prone, Davies watched the shooter move around the room, shouting and targeting fellow moviegoers.
“He would shout, ‘What are you doing? I said stand up!’ And he would pick people up. I saw him stand over someone. I just see hair and him holding the shirt, and boom,” she said.
http://www.latimes.com/news/nation/nationnow/la-na-nn-colorado-heroine-20120723,0,6247841,full.story
This is horrifying to me. Horrifying. As frightened people huddled on the ground, this horrible monster screamed at them to get up and when they wouldn't he shouted, "I said stand up!" while grabbing them and pulling them upright. Once he got them upright, he blew them away.
The evil in that makes my stomach sick - methodically compelling terrified innocent people to stand up and be shot like cattle.
wfgodot
07-24-2012, 01:35 PM
Aurora theater shooting: Gun sales up since tragedy (http://www.denverpost.com/news/ci_21142159?stopRedirect=true&refresh=no) (Denver Post)
Background checks for people wanting to buy guns in Colorado jumped more than 41 percent after Friday morning's shooting at an Aurora movie theater, and firearms instructors say they're also seeing increased interest in the training required for a concealed-carry permit.
"It's been insane," Jake Meyers, an employee at Rocky Mountain Guns and Ammo in Parker, said Monday.
---
the rest at the link above
jjenny
07-24-2012, 01:36 PM
And I also presume he wasn't confused when he allegedly set up a very elaborate apartment bomb. Yes, of course, you can find anything on the internet (I presume that was where he acquired the knowledge) but most people would not be able to manage something like that and not blow themselves up in the process. But now he is supposedly confused in court.
CARIIS
07-24-2012, 01:37 PM
I just tried to get the picture of all the guns this guy , according to them , had They took the picture down?
THey sure did - cause I sent it to my talk radio folk about 45 minutes ago and now the pic is not on the page????????????????
Gave me chills
AHHHHHHHHHH
wfgodot
07-24-2012, 01:37 PM
Baby of man wounded in Colo. shooting is born (http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/US_COLORADO_SHOOTING_FAMILY?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT) (AP)
DENVER (AP) -- A woman whose husband was critically wounded in the Colorado movie theater shooting has given birth to the couple's first child.
Hugo Jackson Medley was born at 7:11 a.m. MT Tuesday at University of Colorado Hospital in Aurora, the same hospital where his father, 23-year-old Caleb Medley, lies in critical condition.
---
the rest at the link above
CARIIS
07-24-2012, 01:38 PM
I just tried to get the picture of all the guns this guy , according to them , had They took the picture down?
THey sure did - cause I sent it to my talk radio folk about 45 minutes ago and now the pic is not on the page????????????????
Gave me chills
AHHHHHHHHHH
ah forgot
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/48292930/ns/us_news/
jjenny
07-24-2012, 01:39 PM
Aurora theater shooting: Gun sales up since tragedy (http://www.denverpost.com/news/ci_21142159?stopRedirect=true&refresh=no) (Denver Post)
the rest at the link above
If this people worry about gun control, I think it's a fair guess they shouldn't. Nobody is going to take their guns away. Politicians are scared to bring that up because they are afraid of not getting elected.
prima.facie
07-24-2012, 01:41 PM
And I can guarantee at any jail in the country, if you come in spitting at everyone, they are going to medicate you and quickly.
that is absolutely not true.
you start spitting, they will throw you into solitary confinement....probably put a mask over your face - looks like pantyhose sort of...a spit mask...
jails do not typically have a pharmacy on site. they are not doctors. nor is a jail a medical facility. they cant just hand out meds not knowing the inmates medical history. he was not in jail long enough to even get a full medical history completed much less a psyc profile done.
*~Aimee~*
07-24-2012, 01:42 PM
I saw this did your opinion of situation change when you got to the last third (I think mine was MSNBC! That one linked here in Maine is really really really scary tho !
I agree the Maine one is def scary! He needed to be arrested/detained. Why would anyone need all this amo/guns?
Then the other 2 are not as bad. I could see a teen (not 52 yo) saying something like that. I would hope someone older would have more respect for the victims.
The 3rd is crazy too.
I bet we see more & more of this. If not stop showing the movie? I doubt the later so we will hear more getting detained/questioned for statement.
oceanblueeyes
07-24-2012, 01:43 PM
IMO, this man is not insane.
When arrested he was sane and coherent.
He knew his constitutional rights and asked for an attorney right away.
imo
jjenny
07-24-2012, 01:47 PM
IMO, this man is not insane.
When arrested he was sane and coherent.
He knew his constitutional rights and asked for an attorney right away.
imo
ITA. He is also very intelligent. Managed to allegedly wire his apartment like a bomb, and not blow himself up, and apparently figured it all out simply from information found on the internet. And then he is sitting in court looking like the potted plant.
CARIIS
07-24-2012, 01:47 PM
IMO, this man is not insane.
When arrested he was sane and coherent.
He knew his constitutional rights and asked for an attorney right away.
imo
Just friendly reminder there are four options here not only insane or not.
HarvestMoon
07-24-2012, 01:48 PM
According to this article Holmes was adopted.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2178304/James-Holmes-Gunman-used-police-evidence-bags-hand-puppets-mother-admits-feared-disturbed-years.html
jjenny
07-24-2012, 01:50 PM
Daily mail? Should it even be considered msm? His mother through the lawyer denied everything that article tries to attribute to her.
*~Aimee~*
07-24-2012, 01:50 PM
IMO, this man is not insane.
When arrested he was sane and coherent.
He knew his constitutional rights and asked for an attorney right away.
imo
I agree he is not insane. But his wiring is off.
He planned this and was able to get everything done in 4 months. Booby rigged his apartment. Turned up the radio thinking someone would go there. Then did this. Knew what to wear so if LE shot at him he should be well protected.
Then asked for a attorney. But does stupid things like play with his hands that are covered to contain evidence like pupets. He knows when to "play" dumb.
If anything maybe mental illness but def not insane.
QueenD
07-24-2012, 01:50 PM
According to this article, the coward who shall remain nameless had none of the symptoms of blunted affect as he went on his rampage. he sure wasn't immobile or without expression. Instead, he was running around the theater, screaming at people:
http://www.latimes.com/news/nation/nationnow/la-na-nn-colorado-heroine-20120723,0,6247841,full.story
This is horrifying to me. Horrifying. As frightened people huddled on the ground, this horrible monster screamed at them to get up and when they wouldn't he shouted, "I said stand up!" while grabbing them and pulling them upright. Once he got them upright, he blew them away.
The evil in that makes my stomach sick - methodically compelling terrified innocent people to stand up and be shot like cattle.
That is so sad. I had not heard that. The whole thing is horrible, but that is so, so terrible. What a nightmare. I feel so sorry for the ones that endured all of that. May he (the killer) rot in h$77!
prima.facie
07-24-2012, 01:50 PM
I think in may depend on state statues, I worked forensic correctionial and they medicated immed!
im not sure exactly what your referring to as forensic correctional, but the perp was just in a reg ol' county jail.........
in a prison - after they have been charged/sentenced - they will have had a full medical history and psyc history done.....and yes then prescribed meds if needbe...
but in a county jail just after an arrest.....no way! if he had medical issues, he would have been rushed off to a hospital. they dont medicate for BAD BEHAVIOR...they restrain!
CARIIS
07-24-2012, 01:51 PM
ITA. He is also very intelligent. Managed to allegedly wire his apartment like a bomb, and not blow himself up, and apparently figured it all out simply from information found on the internet. And then he is sitting in court looking like the potted plant.
Just a friendly reminder IMO , being wildly bright , in know way, is a rule out for severe mental illiness - there is no correlation between the two .IMO NONE , that list , I posted, with dozens and dozens of folks sufferring with mental illiness that lived their entire lives making huge contributions to society, functionality, making millions, parenting, etc etc
wfgodot
07-24-2012, 01:53 PM
Daily mail? Should it even be considered msm? His mother through the lawyer denied everything that article tries to attribute to her.One has to handle my beloved DM with tongs - I almost always try to find a U.S. MSM link to verify info when possible, and, on UK stories, the same: BBC News, Guardian, Telegraph, etc. - but in the main its articles are trustworthy, fact-wise. And, being a tabloid, it has a preponderance of pictures.
Yes, it's MSM. It does not court controversy and is very seldom out on a limb.
DEPUTYDAWG
07-24-2012, 01:53 PM
im not sure exactly what your referring to as forensic correctional, but the perp was just in a reg ol' county jail.........
in a prison - after they have been charged/sentenced - they will have had a full medical history and psyc history done.....and yes then prescribed meds if needbe...
but in a county jail just after an arrest.....no way! if he had medical issues, he would have been rushed off to a hospital. they dont medicate for BAD BEHAVIOR...they restrain!
Thank you!
Goodness, I can't imagine all the lawsuits there would be for a pattern of drugging people just for spitting! :blushing:
leslo
07-24-2012, 01:55 PM
http://www.inquisitr.com/283716/heavily-armed-man-busted-after-taking-loaded-weapon-into-batman-movie/
I just tried to get the picture of all the guns this guy , according to them , had They took the picture down?
THey sure did - cause I sent it to my talk radio folk about 45 minutes ago and now the pic is not on the page????????????????
Gave me chills
AHHHHHHHHHH
jjenny
07-24-2012, 01:56 PM
One has to handle my beloved DM with tongs - I almost always try to find a U.S. MSM link to verify info when possible, and, on UK stories, the same: BBC News, Guardian, Telegraph, etc. - but in the main its articles are trustworthy, fact-wise. And, being a tabloid, it has a preponderance of pictures.
Yes, it's MSM. It does not court controversy and is very seldom out on a limb.
What they attributed to the mother was categorically denied by her.
*~Aimee~*
07-24-2012, 01:58 PM
I know JH dad went to CO but I was wondering was he in court yesterday? I have not seen anything say one way or another. If he was how did the family of the victims react? This would be a very hard situation to be in. You love your child but HATE the act he did.
songline
07-24-2012, 01:59 PM
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/source-james-holmes-totally-faking-sleepy-act-article-1.1120735
The accused Colorado mass murderer’s catatonic courtroom appearance was all an act — and not the result of prescription medications, a jail employee told the Daily News.
James Holmes, 24, was not under the influence of any medication during his strange 12-minute cameo at the Monday hearing, the source insisted Tuesday.
“We don’t just hand out meds,” the Arapahoe County Detention Center worker told the Daily News. “It just doesn’t work like that.
“If he was acting sleepy, he was faking it,” the source added.
IMHO it was not an act and you do not need meds to look like this.
ALL his pictures show us expressions that say "This guy is off"
The red hair was part of his show time get up.
but his face is not a mask, it is what it is. He is a mess...
He belongs behind a lock and key.
songline
07-24-2012, 02:01 PM
Do you think he could be selling those items - what could one person do with that arsonal (unless they have 19 arms!)
HARM anyone who gets in thier way.
SICKO
wfgodot
07-24-2012, 02:01 PM
What they attributed to the mother was categorically denied by her.
Haven't read the story in question yet (as for the "adopted" story, it appears elsewhere only in another tabloid, New York Post, from what I've found). DM will get some things wrong just as more traditional broadsheet reporting does; it generally corrects on line in subsequent postings of the story.
The troubling links we condone here - Examiner, Gather, et al. - are more of a concern to me.
jjenny
07-24-2012, 02:05 PM
Haven't read the story in question yet (as for the "adopted" story, it appears elsewhere only in another tabloid, New York Post, from what I've found). DM will get some things wrong just as more traditional broadsheet reporting does; it generally corrects on line in subsequent postings of the story.
The troubling links we condone here - Examiner, Gather, et al. - are more of a concern to me.
New York Post attributes the "adopted" story to cops telling it to the father of one of the victims. I don't know why cops would be in possession of such information to begin with.
Waddles
07-24-2012, 02:06 PM
http://abcnews.go.com/US/james-holmes-goofy-behavior-sign-psychosis-faking-expert/story?id=16844456#.UA7jk6DMCfQ
not sure about the expert's conclusion about him not being sociopathic
But Randazzo also said there was a third possibility. He might simply be faking it.
"It's possible," she said when asked if Holmes' behavior could be all an act. "It is possible. We'll leave that open," she said, adding that most people who lie about that sort of behavior are sociopaths and "What we've heard about his history does not suggest sociopath at all."
Tricksy
07-24-2012, 02:07 PM
IMO, this man is not insane.
When arrested he was sane and coherent.
He knew his constitutional rights and asked for an attorney right away.
imo
With all due respect, I don't think asking for an attorney straight away deserves as much emphasis as you are placing on it.
It might be slightly different as I am in the UK, but the majority of criminal defence lawyers I know would prefer their clients to stay silent when arrested and only submit to questioning after a) Speaking to their lawyer and b) Having the lawyer in with them on all Police interviews.
When arrested over here, you are offered the option of legal representation.
Regardless of whether I was guilty or innocent, I would still want a lawyer next to me. This is a right (the right to a defence counsel) everyone over here knows about and is pretty much drummed in to you from an early age and reinforced through countless cop shows on TV! To me, requesting a lawyer would be just be a natural reaction.
wfgodot
07-24-2012, 02:07 PM
New York Post attributes the "adopted" story to cops telling it to the father of one of the victims. I don't know why cops would be in possession of such information to begin with.
Yeppers, sounds a bit odious, it does.
songline
07-24-2012, 02:09 PM
This man was not mentally ill. He is just just evil. Normal people do kill. War for example. People defending themselves. They kill and they're normal.
Smart people kill, dumb people, poor, rich, drug induced, not drug induced...
This always happens when there is a mass killing or killing in general. The person must be mentally ill and is labeled as such. He knew what he was doing.
I dont agree,
Normal people do not kill... this guy was not in a war, not a cop, not defending anyone.
That would be normal.
this guy was evil and Mentaly ill. Normal folks do not do that.
Just because he knew what he was doing does not mean he is well.
I was in the streets of NYC one day this summer during the heat wave.
A guy insisted he had to take all his clothes off because he was hot.
The cops arrived, and he acted as if it was normal....
He said it is too hot to wear cloths... When the cops told him it is not allowed but he can go home and do that. he said he is home, and he lives on that street.
YES he was a homeless MI and he did know what he was doing. He kept telling the cops he does not care how they want to dress, he does not have to listen to them he is over 18...
OK - ambulance arrived and took him to mental hospital.
MAYBE he just wanted to be in the A/C and not on the hot pavement...
but he was MI.
MANY MI people are brilent and do know what they are doing. but they seem to think it is OK when they are not on meds.
Waddles
07-24-2012, 02:09 PM
According to this article Holmes was adopted.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2178304/James-Holmes-Gunman-used-police-evidence-bags-hand-puppets-mother-admits-feared-disturbed-years.html
Wow I did not know that, thanks
jjenny
07-24-2012, 02:12 PM
With all due respect, I don't think asking for an attorney straight away deserves as much emphasis as you are placing on it.
It might be slightly different as I am in the UK, but the majority of criminal defence lawyers I know would prefer their clients to stay silent when arrested and only submit to questioning after a) Speaking to their lawyer and b) Having the lawyer in with them on all Police interviews.
When arrested over here, you are offered the option of legal representation.
Regardless of whether I was guilty or innocent, I would still want a lawyer next to me. This is a right (the right to a defence counsel) everyone over here knows about and is pretty much drummed in to you from an early age and reinforced through countless cop shows on TV! To me, requesting a lawyer would be just be a natural reaction.
It does when we are discussing legal insanity defense. If you don't know right from wrong, why would you ask for legal representation?
jjenny
07-24-2012, 02:13 PM
http://abcnews.go.com/US/james-holmes-goofy-behavior-sign-psychosis-faking-expert/story?id=16844456#.UA7jk6DMCfQ
not sure about the expert's conclusion about him not being sociopathic
We are now going to have experts coming out the wazoo giving all kind of differing opinions. Even at trail, I bet, different experts are going to say different things.
songline
07-24-2012, 02:14 PM
I think this movie is going DVD.
No more theater exposure. :waitasec:
I remember the first one it was scary movie....
This one has a stigma to it now.
CARIIS
07-24-2012, 02:16 PM
I got into lots of stuff with my hang up on quote being "you have your man" indicating to me that mom knows how sick her child is and that family has struggled for years with his illness. I expressed my notions regarding this for some time! Now breaking:
as his mother admits she had feared he was disturbed ( I found this adjective compelling!) for years'
I think, IMO, as it relates to lots of dialog being about we have no information from family regarding his history IMO, this is what we need, a family member finally confirming, his chronic mental health issues No?
I shared my notions, the last 48 hours, surrounding family knowing about his mental illness for years, that he has a long history of medication noncompliance, and that mom, as result of being a nurse knows what his problems are
mother reveals she had urged him to seek help years before attack
And... we all gotta , quietly admit , that the old adage "mom knows best" might apply here is it relates to there being no speculation any longer regarding his mental health status .
As far as post earlier regarding spitting, whoever asked for link for this angle of the story report:
'He was spitting at the door and spitting at the guards,' a released inmate said outside the jail. 'He’s spitting at everything. Dude was acting crazy.'
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2178304/James-Holmes-Gunman-used-police-evidence-bags-hand-puppets-mother-admits-feared-disturbed-years.html#ixzz21Z2nd23o
Just sharing new details and as it relates to Daily mail -----with Luka and Michael J and Amy Winehouse a lot of their stuff panned out
JBounds
07-24-2012, 02:17 PM
Sorry but "normal" people don't just wake up one day and decide, "oh I'm bored and devise an elaborate plan to murder hundreds of people at the movie theatre". I say that is mentally ill. Insane maybe not. Mentally ill, definitely.
I wouldn't include the military in the same category.
:moo:
Tell that to the disabled man that two teens killed recently. They decided to play the knock out game and killed him.
Besides he didn't just wake up one day and decide to do it. When people stew in anger and self pity, they kill other people. G/F, B/F, co-workers, etc. He's not mentally ill.
21merc7
07-24-2012, 02:18 PM
We are now going to have experts coming out the wazoo giving all kind of differing opinions. Even at trail, I bet, different experts are going to say different things.
Yeah. I hate the t.v. experts, and article experts. Really this should not be done. No one can diagnose the defendant until they spend time with him. It always chaffs me. I know the public wants an "expert" to agree with their own thinking, but really, it is not good for a case. It is not even proper to give an opinion if you are an expert and have never spent time with the accused.
Yet I have no problem giving my own unprofessional opinion on a crime message board. Not conflicting much, huh? :blushing:
Waddles
07-24-2012, 02:18 PM
I think this movie is going DVD.
No more theater exposure. :waitasec:
I remember the first one it was scary movie....
This one has a stigma to it now.
Yet it's a major major box office success, although down on forecasts
CARIIS
07-24-2012, 02:18 PM
Daily mail? Should it even be considered msm? His mother through the lawyer denied everything that article tries to attribute to her.
This was posted by them 12:36 EST, 24 July 2012 no? Are u referring to Abc thing?
wfgodot
07-24-2012, 02:18 PM
Why the Mail is one of my "go-to" sources is simply because, as traditionally tabloids always have, it concerns itself with crime stories - and that is our chief interest at WS.
Tricksy
07-24-2012, 02:19 PM
IMHO it was not an act and you do not need meds to look like this.
ALL his pictures show us expressions that say "This guy is off"
The red hair was part of his show time get up.
but his face is not a mask, it is what it is. He is a mess...
He belongs behind a lock and key.
I can see it not being an act either tbh.
I take on board what you are saying, then I'm factoring in on top of that a huge crash to the system (after all the adrenalin he would have been running on that terrible day) plus a come down from whatever drugs he had in his system. It really doesn't suprise me that he looked the way he did.
songline
07-24-2012, 02:20 PM
IMO, this man is not insane.
When arrested he was sane and coherent.
He knew his constitutional rights and asked for an attorney right away.
imo
MY MI Daughter can act so in control and sane..
she once convinced the Dr. that She is just fine and I need care. Yes it took a couple of days and they have it now on her record. She can’t manipulate anyone in the hospital again.
THIS IS NOT uncommon.
We know a guy when his mom called 911 he had her removed because she was nervous, but he calmed down smiled and said "Do I look crazy to you? Look at her she is shaking" THIS IS CLASSIC...
I have been asked to teach the courses for MI - I took many courses, because I have a bipolar daughter.
songline
07-24-2012, 02:23 PM
Yet it's a major major box office success, although down on forecasts
JMO
It is a success; I just think some theaters may be scared of copy cats.
Waddles
07-24-2012, 02:24 PM
MY MI Daughter can act so in control and sane..
she once convinced the Dr. that She is just fine and I need care. Yes it took a couple of days and they have it now on her record. She can’t manipulate anyone in the hospital again.
THIS IS NOT uncommon.
We know a guy when his mom called 911 he had her removed because she was nervous, but he calmed down smiled and said "Do I look crazy to you? Look at her she is shaking" THIS IS CLASSIC...
I have been asked to teach the courses for MI - I took many courses, because I have a bipolar daughter.
So true- and sorry to hear about your daughter; the manipulative and convincing side of MI people is very scary-I have a sister with it.
songline
07-24-2012, 02:27 PM
I got into lots of stuff with my hang up on quote being "you have your man" indicating to me that mom knows how sick her child is and that family has struggled for years with his illness. I expressed my notions regarding this for some time! Now breaking:
as his mother admits she had feared he was disturbed ( I found this adjective compelling!) for years'
I think, IMO, as it relates to lots of dialog being about we have no information from family regarding his history IMO, this is what we need, a family member finally confirming, his chronic mental health issues No?
I shared my notions, the last 48 hours, surrounding family knowing about his mental illness for years, that he has a long history of medication noncompliance, and that mom, as result of being a nurse knows what his problems are
mother reveals she had urged him to seek help years before attack
And... we all gotta , quietly admit , that the old adage "mom knows best" might apply here is it relates to there being no speculation any longer regarding his mental health status .
As far as post earlier regarding spitting, whoever asked for link for this angle of the story report:
'He was spitting at the door and spitting at the guards,' a released inmate said outside the jail. 'He’s spitting at everything. Dude was acting crazy.'
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2178304/James-Holmes-Gunman-used-police-evidence-bags-hand-puppets-mother-admits-feared-disturbed-years.html#ixzz21Z2nd23o
Just sharing new details and as it relates to Daily mail -----with Luka and Michael J and Amy Winehouse a lot of their stuff panned out
MOTHERS KNO LONG BEFORE THE DOCTORS DO.
I think the parents were also in a strained relationship because of the son.
I think Mom Knew
I think Dad was in denial.
Can I give you a link? NO….
AudreyRose
07-24-2012, 02:29 PM
This is in the MSM today:
"The gunman who allegedly killed 12 people during a screening of The Dark Knight Rises in Aurora, Colorado was due to be kicked out of his apartment and may have broken up with a girlfriend in the days before his shooting spree, it has emerged."
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2177294/James-Holmes-broke-girlfriend-just-Dark-Knight-Rises-shooting-spree-Colorado.html#ixzz21YiEuVpp
Does anyone have any leads on who the girlfriend is?
This information about the girlfriend may have sprung from a posting on TMZ's web site. They claimed to have spoken to 3 females from that "Adult Friend Finder" web site who said they were contacted by Holmes in the days leading up to the shooting spree, and they all turned him down. I haven't heard anything else about a girlfriend. The neighbours that were interviewed said he was a bit of a loner and never mentioned seeing him with a girl...
Link: http://www.tmz.com/2012/07/23/james-holmes-colorado-shooter-sex-adult-friend-finder-rejected/
Granted that's TMZ. Take it with a grain of salt.
BrownRice
07-24-2012, 02:29 PM
I will NOT believe the Daily Mail "facts" unless it's reported by a more respectable news agency. For days, DM was reporting the 6 year old victim's mother was despondent when told her daughter had passed. It was just reported yesterday (?) that she was finally told. After a couple of days DM updated their story to the correct version.
JH mother did not say "you have your man." According to her atty's statement yesterday, she ONLY confirmed he was her son. Everything else was taken out of context and/or completely misrepresented for sensationalism. Since they wouldn't even talk about their son at all during the press conference yesterday, I doubt she is telling DM (or their sources) she was convinced for years he would do this. And that article even has the audacity to say since she was a nurse she is feeling guilty because she could have averted this tragedy. Really?
Tricksy
07-24-2012, 02:30 PM
It does when we are discussing legal insanity defense. If you don't know right from wrong, why would you ask for legal representation?
Because most people know that it is their right to legal counsel. Its conditioned in to many people from a fairly young age when they cover the legal system in school.
At the moment we don't know if this person is mentally ill or not, but from my limited exerience of mental illness, I have seen people have episodes where they seem to have no control/understanding of what they are doing and then moments of clarity.
CARIIS
07-24-2012, 02:30 PM
I think this movie is going DVD.
No more theater exposure. :waitasec:
I remember the first one it was scary movie....
This one has a stigma to it now.
Thats funny online in two days !
wfgodot
07-24-2012, 02:32 PM
And, speaking of, here's the latest collection of possibly disputable yet undeniably interesting "facts" from DM, lol:
Dark Knight gunman 'used police evidence bags as hand puppets during
his arrest - as his mother admits she had feared he was disturbed for years' (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2178304/James-Holmes-Gunman-used-police-evidence-bags-hand-puppets-mother-admits-feared-disturbed-years.html)
Note the chartacterisitic "upside-down commas" that bracket the headline - that's Mail's none-too-coy signal that these are allegations, not yet, what could we say, set in stone.
AudreyRose
07-24-2012, 02:32 PM
MOTHERS KNO LONG BEFORE THE DOCTORS DO.
I think the parents were also in a strained relationship because of the son.
I think Mom Knew
I think Dad was in denial.
Can I give you a link? NO….
Holmes' mother is now claiming the comment "You have the right person" was actually in reference to the reporter asking about her own name, and not about her son; and that the reporter got it wrong. Just to clarify.
http://www.idigitaltimes.com/articles/10384/20120724/james-holmes-mother-arlene.htm
QueenD
07-24-2012, 02:33 PM
Not sure if this has been posted
HLN News and ViewsVerified @HLNTV
Warner Bros. makes donation to Aurora victims http://on.hln.tv/7YgBoY via @ShowbizTonight
CARIIS
07-24-2012, 02:34 PM
MOTHERS KNO LONG BEFORE THE DOCTORS DO.
I think the parents were also in a strained relationship because of the son.
I think Mom Knew
I think Dad was in denial.
Can I give you a link? NO….
I agree totally with piece about strained marriage mom a nurse , dad logical, MI is hard on families, esp if a family member does not believe any of it is valid , real, impactful, painful, scary..............
....
headline:
Dark Knight gunman 'used police evidence bags as hand puppets during his arrest - as his mother admits she feared he was disturbed for years'
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/ushome/index.html
CARIIS
07-24-2012, 02:36 PM
And, speaking of, here's the latest collection of possibly disputable yet undeniably interesting "facts" from DM, lol:
Dark Knight gunman 'used police evidence bags as hand puppets during
his arrest - as his mother admits she had feared he was disturbed for years' (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2178304/James-Holmes-Gunman-used-police-evidence-bags-hand-puppets-mother-admits-feared-disturbed-years.html)
Note the chartacterisitic "upside-down commas" that bracket the headline - that's Mail's none-too-coy signal that these are allegations, not yet, what could we say, set in stone.
Confused does single quotes mean something more than a typo lord knows I hate typing!
wfgodot
07-24-2012, 02:38 PM
Confused does single quotes mean something more than a typo lord knows I hate typing!
No, it's just, for one thing, a way Daily Mail can avoid litigation - by noting that the phrase in question contains information reported though not yet entirely legitimized. They do this all the time on crime stories. On the advice, I'm sure, of the paper's attorneys.
Tricksy
07-24-2012, 02:39 PM
Why the Mail is one of my "go-to" sources is simply because, as traditionally tabloids always have, it concerns itself with crime stories - and that is our chief interest at WS.
They do cover crime stories, that's true.
However, as far as the Daily Mail goes, I don't think it is the most reliable newspaper over here. I would always look to The Guardian and the Daily Telegraph as more relaible sources.
Don't get me wrong, I do read occassionally it. But sometimes you have to take it with a pinch of salt. Its overly sensationalist and can be biased.
This sums up the Daily Mail: The Daily Mail Song - YouTube
wfgodot
07-24-2012, 02:41 PM
Don't get me wrong, I do read occassionally it. But sometimes you have to take it with a pinch of salt. Its overly sensationalist and can be biased.
Can be very biased, as their headlines almost always, when dealing with immigrants, point out that fact and thus signal their political viewpoint, i.e., anti-immigration. I'd much rather quote the Guardian but they rarely cover crime, especially breaking crime stories.
A good "follow" on Twitter is @DMReporter, which regularly lampoons the Mail's more-than-occasional outlandishness.
DEPUTYDAWG
07-24-2012, 02:43 PM
I will NOT believe the Daily Mail "facts" unless it's reported by a more respectable news agency. For days, DM was reporting the 6 year old victim's mother was despondent when told her daughter had passed. It was just reported yesterday (?) that she was finally told. After a couple of days DM updated their story to the correct version.
JH mother did not say "you have your man." According to her atty's statement yesterday, she ONLY confirmed he was her son. Everything else was taken out of context and/or completely misrepresented for sensationalism. Since they wouldn't even talk about their son at all during the press conference yesterday, I doubt she is telling DM (or their sources) she was convinced for years he would do this. And that article even has the audacity to say since she was a nurse she is feeling guilty because she could have averted this tragedy. Really?
BBM -
Thank you. That was my immediate thought. Yesterday they were guiding their privacy (where hubby is/was, what their travel plans are, how they were feeling, etc. etc. etc. etc).....and now they're being interviewed and saying she was concerned for years????
Nope, media taking it and running...sensationalism.
Until I see a video of her saying that, I'm not going to believe it at this point.
JMO
CARIIS
07-24-2012, 02:44 PM
Accidently found mainstream place that references that 86 Batman comic strip i linked last night
http://abcnews.go.com/US/alleged-colorado-gunman-james-holmes-family-stand-son/story?id=16840162
joe2857
07-24-2012, 02:44 PM
Apologies if it's already been posted, but this is from the Washington Post, which is more reputable than the Daily Mail. Of course, it's coming from anonymous sources, and it only says that the mother was concerned about her son becoming withdrawn, not that she suspected he'd do something criminal:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/suspect-in-colorado-massacre-due-in-court/2012/07/23/gJQAa3oN4W_story_1.html
Neighbors and people close to the family said Arlene Holmes had confided to friends that she was very concerned about her son’s social isolation and had sought counseling for him years earlier. They spoke on the condition of anonymity because of the sensitivity of the subject.
Waddles
07-24-2012, 02:45 PM
Gosh the photos of Gordon Cowden's teenage daughters in that dailymail article really show their agony and are just so heartbreaking, all that pain for the rest of their lives over a completely senseless act in a place they should have been in complete safety
Padua
07-24-2012, 02:46 PM
I dont agree,
Normal people do not kill... this guy was not in a war, not a cop, not defending anyone.
That would be normal.
this guy was evil and Mentaly ill. Normal folks do not do that.
Just because he knew what he was doing does not mean he is well.
I was in the streets of NYC one day this summer during the heat wave.
A guy insisted he had to take all his clothes off because he was hot.
The cops arrived, and he acted as if it was normal....
He said it is too hot to wear cloths... When the cops told him it is not allowed but he can go home and do that. he said he is home, and he lives on that street.
YES he was a homeless MI and he did know what he was doing. He kept telling the cops he does not care how they want to dress, he does not have to listen to them he is over 18...
OK - ambulance arrived and took him to mental hospital.
MAYBE he just wanted to be in the A/C and not on the hot pavement...
but he was MI.
MANY MI people are brilent and do know what they are doing. but they seem to think it is OK when they are not on meds.
I don't know what you mean by "normal" people.
Tricksy
07-24-2012, 02:46 PM
Can be very biased, as their headlines almost always, when dealing with immigrants, point out that fact and thus signal their political viewpoint, i.e., anti-immigration. I'd much rather quote the Guardian but they rarely cover crime, especially breaking crime stories.
I absolutely agree with all your points here. I've noticed on the DM website that even their celebrity stories can be incorrect in their details and they don't seem to change them until their readers call them out on the mistakes!
I suppose that The Guardian is always a lot more careful in sourcing and checking their facts, which could be why they don't seem to cover breaking crime stories.
Waddles
07-24-2012, 02:48 PM
Apologies if it's already been posted, but this is from the Washington Post, which is more reputable than the Daily Mail. Of course, it's coming from anonymous sources, and it only says that the mother was concerned about her son becoming withdrawn, not that she suspected he'd do something criminal:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/suspect-in-colorado-massacre-due-in-court/2012/07/23/gJQAa3oN4W_story_1.html
thank you, I hadn't seen that
CARIIS
07-24-2012, 02:49 PM
Yeah. I hate the t.v. experts, and article experts. Really this should not be done. No one can diagnose the defendant until they spend time with him. It always chaffs me. I know the public wants an "expert" to agree with their own thinking, but really, it is not good for a case. It is not even proper to give an opinion if you are an expert and have never spent time with the accused.
Yet I have no problem giving my own unprofessional opinion on a crime message board. Not conflicting much, huh? :blushing:
Well sure that happens with medical doctors, lawyers, professors, research studies, lab results, dentists, lab tests, medication results --
best source of info mom dad sister professors ---IMO those that had contact with him for long peroids of time..................
wfgodot
07-24-2012, 02:49 PM
I absolutely agree with all your points here. I've noticed on the DM website that even their celebrity stories can be incorrect in their details and they don't seem to change them until their readers call them out on the mistakes!
I suppose that The Guardian is always a lot more careful in sourcing and checking their facts, which could be why they don't seem to cover breaking crime stories.
Traditionally, Guardian readership has not clamored to read true crime accounts.
CARIIS
07-24-2012, 02:51 PM
Why the Mail is one of my "go-to" sources is simply because, as traditionally tabloids always have, it concerns itself with crime stories - and that is our chief interest at WS.
I never read em before have you found them accurate (like in long term) historically - lots bashing of them here . What has your exp been , in terms of them not being exploitation junk?
cece5300
07-24-2012, 02:52 PM
I think this movie is going DVD.
No more theater exposure. :waitasec:
I remember the first one it was scary movie....
This one has a stigma to it now.
Huh? The movie has been estimated to have made $161 million over the opening weekend and I am still seeing previews for it on TV. I saw it with my husband over the weekend and it was good and everyone in our theater had an enjoyable experience.
This tragedy was HORRIBLE. It sickens me. But there's no reason to blame Warner brothers, the dark knight, the actors, the theater, moviegoers, or anyone EXCEPT the shooter for what happened. People should not refrain from going to the movies out of fear of something like this happening. I for one am not going to let the shooter get the satisfaction of scaring me out of an innocent activity such as going to the movies.
It is sad that this movie will forever be associated with a terrible tragedy, but Warner Brothers is donating money to the victims and their families in Colorado, and while that does nothing to bring the victims back or anything, we can't forget to place the blame where it belongs: with JH.
MOTHERS KNO LONG BEFORE THE DOCTORS DO.
I think the parents were also in a strained relationship because of the son.
I think Mom Knew
I think Dad was in denial.
Can I give you a link? NO….
This scenario, I can see happening....I guess maybe in the future some other info might come out but with the gag order in place we probably won't know much for a long time to come
CARIIS
07-24-2012, 02:52 PM
I can see it not being an act either tbh.
I take on board what you are saying, then I'm factoring in on top of that a huge crash to the system (after all the adrenalin he would have been running on that terrible day) plus a come down from whatever drugs he had in his system. It really doesn't suprise me that he looked the way he did.
He is a mess...
Thank you!
QueenD
07-24-2012, 02:53 PM
And the first I have seen of the lawsuits to began.
Lawsuit: Witness Torrence Brown, Jr. (right) is about to bring a lawsuit against the cinema, Holmes' doctors and Warner Brothers after suffering extreme trauma after his friend AJ Boik (left) was shot dead
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2178304/James-Holmes-Gunman-used-police-evidence-bags-hand-puppets-mother-admits-feared-disturbed-years.html#ixzz21ZFhicDl
gitana1
07-24-2012, 02:53 PM
that is absolutely not true.
you start spitting, they will throw you into solitary confinement....probably put a mask over your face - looks like pantyhose sort of...a spit mask...
jails do not typically have a pharmacy on site. they are not doctors. nor is a jail a medical facility. they cant just hand out meds not knowing the inmates medical history. he was not in jail long enough to even get a full medical history completed much less a psyc profile done.
Thank you!
Goodness, I can't imagine all the lawsuits there would be for a pattern of drugging people just for spitting! :blushing:
Those of us familiar with the process at county jails understand that the coward was highly unlikely to have been medicated at the hearing, 72 hours after he was arrested.
Here's the process:
1. Arrest.
2. Booking.
3. Meet with a nurse.
4. If you state you take medications and have someone who can bring the prescriptions to the jail and have them reviewed by the nurse, you MAY be able to get them without having to be examined by a physician. This is more common in cases like diabetes (but not always). It is far less common in cases of mental disorders.
5. If you exhibit bizarre behaviors, you may be isolated or restrained and in some case, placed on suicide watch which just means your clothing is taken from you and you are observed more often than others who have been arrested. This includes if you are screaming for help, eating your own waste or begging for medication. You will likely not be given any: May Molina was a prominent civil rights activist who was known for protesting police actions. In May 2004, Molina was arrested on a drug tip. When Molina was arrested, she told the police officers that she took thyroid and diabetes medications, but the police told her she could not bring her medications to the jail as they "were not permitted in lockup."
About 16 hours into her detention, Molina met with her long-time attorney. According to Molina's attorney, she could barely stand, walk, or speak. Molina's attorney told the jail guards to get her to a hospital because she was in very poor health, and Molina repeatedly asked for her medications from her cell. However, none of the guards on duty responded, and a few hours later, Molina was found dead in her cell.
. http://www.lexisnexis.com/community/emergingissues/blogs/emergingissueslawblog/archive/2011/09/15/when-does-deprivation-of-medicine-to-a-person-in-jail-constitute-
Hoff has exhibited erratic behavior since he was 5, and he was treated with anti-psychotic medications, kept at group homes and received other services for the mentally ill through adolescence.
He recently earned a 60-day jail stay for theft, and sheriff's officials denied his parent's attempts to get him his meds while behind bars. His parents now fear he has sunk into full-blown psychosis.http://blogs.ocweekly.com/navelgazing/2012/02/matt_hoff_missing_oc_jail.php
Gregg County authorities on Thursday confirmed medications were denied an inmate who died because they were on the jail’s list of non-approved drugs.
Amy Lynn Cowling, 33, of Gilmer was found unresponsive in a separation cell just before midnight Tuesday. She was declared dead on arrival about 12:30 a.m. Wednesday at Good Shepherd Medical Center.
“Cowling’s family and friends repeatedly contacted the sheriff’s office to inform them about the inmate’s medical situation and that it was imperative that she be administered her physician-prescribed medications, but the family’s requests were dismissed each time,” Tefteller said in a written statement.
Davis said there was a reason for the refusal.
“All three medications that Cowling had been taking for the past 10 years were not approved by the jail,” he said.
Davis said Cowling was taking methadone, a synthetic opiate; Seroquel, used to treat the symptoms of schizophrenia; and Xanax, used to treat anxiety disorders and panic attacks.
In lieu of the medications she was prescribed, a doctor’s assessment prompted approved medications to be administered to Cowling.
http://www.news-journal.com/news/local/article_b742dff5-f175-5ceb-b769-e493ddfd9c1e.html
Timothy Smith, who according to his family is bipolar and diabetic, was reportedly unable to get his medication while serving a three-day sentence for a traffic violation at the Twin Towers Correctional Facility.
“They had information that he had some sort of physical and we believe also some sort of mental condition,” said attorney Jamon Hicks. “At a minimum, they knew he was on medication.”
http://losangeles.cbslocal.com/2011/10/20/attorney-deputies-assaulted-bipolar-diabetic-inmate-after-meds-denied/
GRAND RAPIDS, Mich. (WOOD) - A Fruitport man served about six weeks in the Ottawa County jail in 2007. For seven days, he claims he was denied medication for his bipolar disorder and diabetes.
Randy Modd and his attorneys filed a lawsuit last week in Grand Rapids federal court, stating because he was denied "critical medication," he needed to be hospitalized for his bipolar condition.
"It was a terrible being put in isolation -- maximum security," Modd said. "It was horrifying, just terrifying and nobody cared. I could have died in there and nobody would have cared less."
http://www.woodtv.com/dpp/news/local/ottawa_county/Former-inmate-sues-Ottawa-County-jailUPDATED: CLEVELAND -- R&B singer Sean Levert entered the Cuyahoga County Jail on March 24 clutching the prescribed medication he took regularly for anxiety.
Jail staff took the bottle of Xanax away from him and failed to give him a single pill during the six days he was there, investigators said. Even when he began suffering horrifying delusions, he wasn't given his medication and never saw a doctor.
Instead, on March 30, jailers strapped Levert into a restraint chair, still fighting the monstrous visions in his head caused by withdrawal from the medication. Minutes later, the 39-year-old son of O'Jays star Eddie Levert stopped breathing. His heart then stopped and doctors couldn't save him.
http://blog.cleveland.com/metro/2008/11/post_15.html
OCALA - Thoughts of suicide began to form in James Johnson's mind. He felt nauseous. He couldn't sleep. He was confused.
"Please give me my Paxil," he begged the jail's corrections officers.
Johnson, 50, had been booked into the Marion County Jail in March on a charge of driving with a suspended driver's license.
What he didn't understand then - or now - is why the jail's medical staff refused to give him the legally prescribed medications he had taken for years for his clinical depression, including the anti-depressant Paxil, an anti-psychotic called Seroquel and the sedative Trazodone.
"The psych nurse came to me and said, 'You're not going to get this medication,'" Johnson said in a recent interview. "I said I'd get violently ill."
And so he did.
He began throwing up.
He grew increasingly agitated.
Nurses wrote in his medical records, day after day, that he was asking for his medication; that Johnson was "doubled over in anguish evidenced by facial expressions"; that he was making suicidal statements.
He was taken in and out of a suicide prevention cell.
At one point, he sat on the floor and began to pray with his cellmates.
The Lord is my shepherd, I shall not want.
As Johnson's pleas for help went unanswered, he became more desperate.
By the seventh day, he was wailing and flinging himself headlong into the concrete walls hoping to either lose consciousness or alert the guards to the depth of his agony.
"He started going crazy in front of my eyes," said Kyle Morrill, one of his cellmates. "I woke up in the middle of the night and he was running from one side of the cell and banging his head on the other side."
Johnson's frightened cellmates begged officers to do something - anything - to relieve his suffering.
But nothing changed.
So when officers opened Johnson's cell on the 10th day after his arrest, he bolted up a nearby stairway and leapt off the balcony, crashing onto the hard floor 14 feet below and shattering his right leg.
That jump earned him a trip to the hospital, where a psychiatrist put him back on an anti-depressant and painkillers and sent him back to jail.
A SICK HEALTH SYSTEM?
Johnson's harrowing story isn't unique to the Marion County Jail, or for that matter, to many jails across the country.
http://www.ocala.com/article/20071216/NEWS/212160331?p=2&tc=pg
6. Whether you came in with a diagnosis and/or prescription or not, after several days, maybe weeks, you may be able to see a jailhouse doctor. At that time, you may be evaluated and diagnosed and prescribed medications. They often are not the same as those prescribed on the outside.
7. If you begin to display obvious medical problems like convulsions, unconsciousness, you will likely be taken to a medical wing or to a hospital. But not until then - unless you are a famous and rich celebrity like Paris Hilton.
The guy who killed all those people in AZ and who shot Gabrielle Giffords, was smearing feces all over the place, sobbing uncontrollably, went without sleep for 50 hours and had to be forcibly removed from the courtroom for his outbursts: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/us-election/8999318/A-year-since-Gabrielle-Giffords-shooting-Jared-Loughners-fate-is-still-unclear.html
Despite this, he was not medicated for almost seven months after his arrest, until June 21, 2011: http://www.nytimes.com/2011/07/24/us/24loughner.html
Here's the thing. Jails usually don't have the resources to provide the medical care inmates may need. They don't have the staff. They are underfunded. Also, inmates in jails scream yell and make demands incessantly. They often fake illnesses or otherwise act bizarrely. Jailers are used to this and thus often do not pay attention to inmates with issues. Further, many medications an inmate may be already prescribed, are not on "approved" lists. Finally, jails are reluctant to prescribe anything to anyone, especially on an emergency basis. They don't know if the inmate is allergic, or already on something that could cause complications. The potential for lawsuits is incredible.
If the coward had already been given medications while in jail, he would not be on suicide watch. He would be in the hospital wing or in a regular hospital, heavily guarded. That's because only a severe and obvious medical emergency would cause the jail staff to have him be given medications to control "behavior". Otherwise, the staff is used to screaming, poo throwing, writhing on the floor, banging heads on the wall, spitting, mania, etc. None of that is considered a medical emergency to jail staffers. Sorry, they don't have the time or resources to deem such behavior a medical issue.
This murderer was not on any medication at his court appearance, IMO and in my experience. No way, no how.
wfgodot
07-24-2012, 02:55 PM
I never read em before have you found them accurate (like in long term) historically - lots bashing of them here . What has your exp been , in terms of them not being exploitation junk?
Well, they're the most reputable of the British tabloids, though that doesn't say much, I realize: "better than the Sun" is a backhanded compliment. But, generally, their reporting on crime holds up over time. One always must consider the source, of course.
Tricksy
07-24-2012, 02:56 PM
Traditionally, Guardian readership has not clamored to read true crime accounts.
That surprises me! I never knew that!
We read a lot about true crime in this household and also read The Guardian.
The article I have read on law and order in that paper are usually thought provoking. I wish they would cover more true crime accounts.
CARIIS
07-24-2012, 02:56 PM
He is a mess...
Thank you!
And , boy am I in trouble now, ha, so sad, when I saw him yesterday oh poor thing (NOT forgiving everyone) this is a human being that is so so so sick it is sad
this human being has had a metamorphosis
in his existance the last couple of years , human behavior does not change that much that quick IMO with out medical (MI) S O M E T H I NG
Just a question , if someone weighed 385 pounds for 23 years and the last 6 months his weight dropped to 92, without dieting, would anyone not conclude gosh there must be something going on
Just curious!
wfgodot
07-24-2012, 02:58 PM
That surprises me! I never knew that!
We read a lot about true crime in this household and also read The Guardian.
The article I have read on law and order in that paper are usually thought provoking. I wish they would cover more true crime accounts.
Surely you know that they achieved the nickname "Grauniad" from Private Eye as a result of their typo-prone ways in days of yore.
I read it because it's the best source of leftish opinion that I've found, both on national and international issues. It's the anti-Telegraph, essentially, in terms of the broadsheets. Great coverage of cultural matters as well.
CARIIS
07-24-2012, 02:59 PM
MOre I read here I think it has to be state laws, we had a family member telling us that inmate has been on XX (Psyc med) it was gotten IMMED -- liability -- withdrawal from this stuff when cold turkeyed trecherous!
HMSHood
07-24-2012, 03:02 PM
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/source-james-holmes-totally-faking-sleepy-act-article-1.1120735
The accused Colorado mass murderer’s catatonic courtroom appearance was all an act — and not the result of prescription medications, a jail employee told the Daily News.
James Holmes, 24, was not under the influence of any medication during his strange 12-minute cameo at the Monday hearing, the source insisted Tuesday.
“We don’t just hand out meds,” the Arapahoe County Detention Center worker told the Daily News. “It just doesn’t work like that.
“If he was acting sleepy, he was faking it,” the source added.
Faking it is one of Holme's grand schemes.
CARIIS
07-24-2012, 03:05 PM
Have you seen like they say the x and weeks later NBC HLN HNN etc say wrong or validate it cause a lot of the stuff they got right like the mainstream folks got the scoop (more scared to go with the scoop??)
HMSHood
07-24-2012, 03:07 PM
IMO, this man is not insane.
When arrested he was sane and coherent.
He knew his constitutional rights and asked for an attorney right away.
imo
I don't think he is mentally ill either. More like personality disorder. Like I have said, he is a psychopath.
CARIIS
07-24-2012, 03:07 PM
Is there something with single quote and " as it relates to alledged or fact? Someone impled that ' means maybe (!) while " is what we all know it as !
i.b.nora
07-24-2012, 03:09 PM
http://www.tmz.com/2012/07/24/james-holmes-lawsuit-shooting/
This was linked to from that Daily Mail article, for those who are curious about where or how they get some of their stories and do some of their 'reporting'.
I have a feeling the ambulance chasing attorneys are out and about in full force. I wonder if Greta van Susteren has her husband with her as she reports from Aurora?
DEPUTYDAWG
07-24-2012, 03:10 PM
Regarding drugs/medications given to the suspect for Monday:
Do we - - -
1) Believe he was given nothing (because the Sheriff's Department and his defense team have said he was given nothing);
2) Not believe the Sheriff's Department and his defense team, because we thing they're covering up and/or protecting suspect's privacy (or because the Sheriff's Dept was using an unnamed source); or
3) Other (i.e., that's now he normally is/was....or he was sleep deprived...or faking.....or ????)
DEPUTYDAWG
07-24-2012, 03:12 PM
Is there something with single quote and " as it relates to alledged or fact? Someone impled that ' means maybe (!) while " is what we all know it as !
Yes, it can be a subtle difference,
Quotations should only be used if it's a direct quote, word for word.
gitana1
07-24-2012, 03:13 PM
With all due respect, I don't think asking for an attorney straight away deserves as much emphasis as you are placing on it.
It might be slightly different as I am in the UK, but the majority of criminal defence lawyers I know would prefer their clients to stay silent when arrested and only submit to questioning after a) Speaking to their lawyer and b) Having the lawyer in with them on all Police interviews.
When arrested over here, you are offered the option of legal representation.
Regardless of whether I was guilty or innocent, I would still want a lawyer next to me. This is a right (the right to a defence counsel) everyone over here knows about and is pretty much drummed in to you from an early age and reinforced through countless cop shows on TV! To me, requesting a lawyer would be just be a natural reaction.
Because most people know that it is their right to legal counsel. Its conditioned in to many people from a fairly young age when they cover the legal system in school.
At the moment we don't know if this person is mentally ill or not, but from my limited exerience of mental illness, I have seen people have episodes where they seem to have no control/understanding of what they are doing and then moments of clarity.
Wow. Tell that to every criminal defense attorney in America. Respectfully, they would laugh.
My evidence professor in law school was a federal public defender for 20 years. He said the Miranda warning (the right to remain silent language that must be uttered to those arrested or detained in most cases), is a joke. He drilled repeat offenders over and over again on not talking and demanding a lawyer. 99.9% of them talk anyway.
I see this with my law partner's criminal clients all the time. Maybe it's different in England but here, it's a joke. Only the most informed AND rational would ask to speak to an attorney.
Really, are you guys telling me that this coward was so mentally ill that he was spitting all over the place and could not be controlled, thus he had to be medicated, yet he was calm enough to request an attorney and refuse to cooperate with LE?
Not to mention that he was calm enough to quietly build an arsenal, create a sophisticated booby trap, enter a theater without garnering attention, precisely on the opening night of a movie whose characters he wanted to emulate, quietly leave that theater, not screaming, or spitting or rolling his eyes, then, after propping open the door, put on layers of body armor and outfitted himself with a deadly arsenal before re-entering the theater, where he had the wherewithall to lob a few gas canisters, and then shoot into the ceiling, in perfect imitation of what the joker character did in another Batman film, before methodically murdering and injuring 70 innocent people, ordering the, to "get up!" while he grabbed them upright and shot into them?
But now he's suddenly so insane and incapable of controlling himself, that he has to be medicated into a stupor?
I'm sorry guys, this defies logic.
wfgodot
07-24-2012, 03:16 PM
Yes, it makes many here angry, but the necessary thing to do upon arrest is to "lawyer up."
CARIIS
07-24-2012, 03:16 PM
Faking it is one of Holme's grand schemes.
Heck if that is true Meryl Streep should be doing movies from jail with him! IMO we all gotta remember that the serious get down psyc meds take days to leave bloodstream!
And probably very little sleep the last week, obviouly been doing drugs (in car / his report) in prison, just shot a whole bunch of people etc etc
I would suppose kinda AUTHENTICALLY wiped -- to be able to give an academy award winning performance - hey it got the world talking huh?
IF an act it was the best performance I IMO, have every seen!
gitana1
07-24-2012, 03:18 PM
Regarding drugs/medications given to the suspect for Monday:
Do we - - -
1) Believe he was given nothing (because the Sheriff's Department and his defense team have said he was given nothing);
2) Not believe the Sheriff's Department and his defense team, because we thing they're covering up and/or protecting suspect's privacy (or because the Sheriff's Dept was using an unnamed source); or
3) Other (i.e., that's now he normally is/was....or he was sleep deprived...or faking.....or ????)
Other - that he was finally coming down after the high of accomplishing what he set out to do and was exhausted. Monster wanted to be famous. He wanted to be noticed. He wanted to prove he was worth more than everyone else and could take lives if he chose too. Thanks to the media and to society, he got what he wanted as far as fame and notoriety and he was high as a kite from it all, IMO.
Sad. I can see future monsters cuing up for some of that "fame".
QueenD
07-24-2012, 03:21 PM
Wow. Tell that to every criminal defense attorney in America. Respectfully, they would laugh.
My evidence professor in law school was a federal public defender for 20 years. He said the Miranda warning (the right to remain silent language that must be uttered to those arrested or detained in most cases), is a joke. He drilled repeat offenders over and over again on not talking and demanding a lawyer. 99.9% of them talk anyway.
I see this with my law partner's criminal clients all the time. Maybe it's different in England but here, it's a joke. Only the most informed AND rational would ask to speak to an attorney.
Really, are you guys telling me that this coward was so mentally ill that he was spitting all over the place and could not be controlled, thus he had to be medicated, yet he was calm enough to request an attorney and refuse to cooperate with LE?
Not to mention that he was calm enough to quietly build an arsenal, create a sophisticated booby trap, enter a theater without garnering attention, precisely on the opening night of a movie whose characters he wanted to emulate, quietly leave that theater, not screaming, or spitting or rolling his eyes, then, after propping open the door, put on layers of body armor and outfitted himself with a deadly arsenal before re-entering the theater, where he had the wherewithall to lob a few gas canisters, and then shoot into the ceiling, in perfect imitation of what the joker character did in another Batman film, before methodically murdering and injuring 70 innocent people, ordering the, to "get up!" while he grabbed them upright and shot into them?
But now he's suddenly so insane and incapable of controlling himself, that he has to be medicated into a stupor?
I'm sorry guys, this defies logic.
:goodpost:
broomboys
07-24-2012, 03:22 PM
Before we all get too caught up debating the merits of the British tabloid press... do we have any further information on finding out who Holmes' 'relationship' was with, that the cops suggested was the reason for the massacre. I think that's what we're all interested in now....."Why".
Also, can we turn our attention to his real parents? If he is adopted, can we somehow find who his biological parents are?
Padua
07-24-2012, 03:22 PM
I wouldn't think an inmate would be sedated before appearing before a judge. Aren't they supposed to be lucid and understand what the judge is saying to them?
QueenD
07-24-2012, 03:25 PM
Before we all get too caught up debating the merits of the British tabloid press... do we have any further information on finding out who Holmes' 'relationship' was with, that the cops suggested was the reason for the massacre. I think that's what we're all interested in now....."Why".
Also, can we turn our attention to his real parents? If he is adopted, can we somehow find who his biological parents are?
BBM
I dont think that is allowed here.
wfgodot
07-24-2012, 03:28 PM
Reminders...
You can make general references to gun control laws, no in depth discussion on the topic.
Parents and Family members:
NO SLEUTHING them at all
You can discuss them only as to what is reported in MSM.
We are a victim friendly forum, parents and family are victims as well.
Anything unflattering or blaming in nature will be removed.
If more information comes out then this would change, but for now - these people are off limits except for what they themselves put out in the news.
We will make changes and modify rules if and when necessary.
Please Continue Here...
.....
Waddles
07-24-2012, 03:28 PM
Before we all get too caught up debating the merits of the British tabloid press... do we have any further information on finding out who Holmes' 'relationship' was with, that the cops suggested was the reason for the massacre. I think that's what we're all interested in now....."Why".
Also, can we turn our attention to his real parents? If he is adopted, can we somehow find who his biological parents are?
It has been said earlier in posts that the "girlfriend" rumor is likely false info from confusion brought by the fact of being turned down by 3 different AFF women online
It has also been suggested he was not adopted at all and this arose out of a comment made by an LE officer which was taken from there
jjenny
07-24-2012, 03:29 PM
Yes, it makes many here angry, but the necessary thing to do upon arrest is to "lawyer up."
It doesn't make me angry. But legally insane person isn't supposed to know right from wrong. Therefore, why would a legally insane person ask for a lawyer? Take Andrea Yates, for example. I am pretty sure she didn't ask for a lawyer, admitted what she did right away, etc.
CARIIS
07-24-2012, 03:30 PM
Yeh!
That’s a writing thing (creating a headline!) IMO
Sought counseling for him years earlier
She feared he was disturbed for years'
Saying same thing what is therapy (counseling)
Feared --what does a parent do when they think child has issue Get help….
IMO they both are talking about the same thing,.
.... and in this instance IMO, most important is it is from people that have been around him a long time!
Headline writing!
It would be diff if one headline said
The sky is gray
And the next one said
The sky is orange
But if one headline declares:
The sky is aqua
And another said
The sky is blue
Neither is not true two publications just wrote a headline diff!
There is congruency!
jjenny
07-24-2012, 03:32 PM
Apologies if it's already been posted, but this is from the Washington Post, which is more reputable than the Daily Mail. Of course, it's coming from anonymous sources, and it only says that the mother was concerned about her son becoming withdrawn, not that she suspected he'd do something criminal:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/suspect-in-colorado-massacre-due-in-court/2012/07/23/gJQAa3oN4W_story_1.html
Which is a far cry from her thinking he was going to be a mass murderer. Everybody else pretty much confirms he was a loner.
CARIIS
07-24-2012, 03:34 PM
Totally agree !
See, he asked for an attorney, that means, that just because he got done trying to kill 70 people 21 minutes ago, this indicates that he is not mentally sick........
IMO that is just nonsensical conclusions IMO
I agree with you !
CARIIS
07-24-2012, 03:37 PM
Diff between insanity and incomptency, IMO, that is gonna be the deal here ! IMO!
Even if he pleaded guilty incomptency, would still be a years long ordeal IMO
jjenny
07-24-2012, 03:38 PM
This information about the girlfriend may have sprung from a posting on TMZ's web site. They claimed to have spoken to 3 females from that "Adult Friend Finder" web site who said they were contacted by Holmes in the days leading up to the shooting spree, and they all turned him down. I haven't heard anything else about a girlfriend. The neighbours that were interviewed said he was a bit of a loner and never mentioned seeing him with a girl...
Link: http://www.tmz.com/2012/07/23/james-holmes-colorado-shooter-sex-adult-friend-finder-rejected/
Granted that's TMZ. Take it with a grain of salt.
Or maybe somebody thinks that semi-naked woman behind him in an AFF photo is a real girl. That is not a real woman behind him. That's a model and she never met him. He had a poster of her behind him when that photo was taken.
:floorlaugh:
QueenD
07-24-2012, 03:41 PM
Would an insane person take the measure he did to survive? (armour he suited up in)
zvzvzv
07-24-2012, 03:41 PM
British tabloids are one thing, but TMZ reporting on this is really
tasteless to me. i'm only familiar with their TV show and
that is like America's Funniest Videos but about celebrities
complete with obnoxious voice-overs & commentary.
when you look at an article about the shooting on their
webpage all other the links are about movie stars.
they seem to be treating him no different from a 'famous person'.
not to mention they're just scooping reddit.
CARIIS
07-24-2012, 03:42 PM
As he has proven last 24 years (up till recent) he is bright the notion that he IN THE BIGGEST CASE OF THE YEAR LE would not cover there butts and ASK per AMerican law
Do you want a lawyer
and he utters yes
does not mean he does not have issues
it means he is not stupid they are not one or the other
One can be, IMO, both bright and very very mentally ill ....
The most studied Bundy BRILLANT
he was diagnosed as a manic depressive
a severe mental illiness!
http://uk.answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20100121070235AAtIzVc
....
CARIIS
07-24-2012, 03:45 PM
Before we all get too caught up debating the merits of the British tabloid press... do we have any further information on finding out who Holmes' 'relationship' was with, that the cops suggested was the reason for the massacre. I think that's what we're all interested in now....."Why".
Also, can we turn our attention to his real parents? If he is adopted, can we somehow find who his biological parents are?
That would be awesome - telling-!
~n/t~
07-24-2012, 03:47 PM
Apologies if it's already been posted, but this is from the Washington Post, which is more reputable than the Daily Mail. Of course, it's coming from anonymous sources, and it only says that the mother was concerned about her son becoming withdrawn, not that she suspected he'd do something criminal:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/suspect-in-colorado-massacre-due-in-court/2012/07/23/gJQAa3oN4W_story_1.html
Thank you. Very interesting to note the differences between siblings. One outgoing, lots of friends. The suspect = loner/anti social.
5 year difference. A sister. The suspect good at school but sucked at relationships. The sister was very social. Lots of friends. Brother loner.
I think a piece of the puzzle is emerging.:moo:
CARIIS
07-24-2012, 03:49 PM
Would an insane person take the measure he did to survive? (armour he suited up in)
I do not remember, did the joker try to protect himself, in some way when he was gonna save the world or commit a bad act etc
broomboys
07-24-2012, 03:52 PM
I think a piece of the puzzle is emerging.:moo:
Which is.....?
~n/t~
07-24-2012, 03:55 PM
Which is.....?
I think the more we learn about the family dynamics, the more some of our questions will be answered. Too early to say. Like I said, it's only a piece of the puzzle.
21merc7
07-24-2012, 03:59 PM
British tabloids are one thing, but TMZ reporting on this is really
tasteless to me. i'm only familiar with their TV show and
that is like America's Funniest Videos but about celebrities
complete with obnoxious voice-overs & commentary.
when you look at an article about the shooting on their
webpage all other the links are about movie stars.
they seem to be treating him no different from a 'famous person'.
not to mention they're just scooping reddit.
I dislike it too, but TMZ has covered star crime cases before. Michael Jackson's Doctor trial was one. You could even watch live stream there, from the Courtroom. They also did a good job hunting down the docs that gave MJ prescriptions over the years - live recording -asking them pertinent questions for a criminal matter. Hard to believe, I know.
I think it is for 2 reasons, that one guy, don't know his name, is a lawyer, he owns it. He would be interested. I also think they are trying become more than just celeb gossip, albeit it a rather slow process.
QueenD
07-24-2012, 03:59 PM
I do not remember, did the joker try to protect himself, in some way when he was gonna save the world or commit a bad act etc
LOL, asking the wrong person here. I have not beena batman follower for years. Probably since my son got old enough to drive himself to the movies.
And usually I would take him and a friend to see their movie and I would go see a "chic flick".
CARIIS
07-24-2012, 04:01 PM
Thank you. Very interesting to note the differences between siblings. One outgoing, lots of friends. The suspect = loner/anti social.
5 year difference. A sister. The suspect good at school but sucked at relationships. The sister was very social. Lots of friends. Brother loner.
I think a piece of the puzzle is emerging.:moo:
WOuld that validate that he was not bio child of parents?
HMSHood
07-24-2012, 04:02 PM
Apologies if it's already been posted, but this is from the Washington Post, which is more reputable than the Daily Mail. Of course, it's coming from anonymous sources, and it only says that the mother was concerned about her son becoming withdrawn, not that she suspected he'd do something criminal:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/suspect-in-colorado-massacre-due-in-court/2012/07/23/gJQAa3oN4W_story_1.html
Also his sister was more outgoing in contrast to James. I have seen this family dynamic before with Seung-Hui Cho.
Seung-Hui Cho=Introverted and loner
Sun-Kyung Cho=Extroverted and outgoing
However, Seung-Hui Cho was youngest in family, unlike James Holmes, who is first born.
wfgodot
07-24-2012, 04:04 PM
Warner Bros. donating $1 million to theater shooting victims (http://kdvr.com/2012/07/24/warner-bros-donating-substantial-amount-to-theater-shooting-victims/) (kdvr.com)
AURORA, Colo. — The studio that made “The Dark Knight Rises” has told sources it will be making a donation to victims of the July 20 shooting at an Aurora movie theater that was screening a premiere of the film.
While the studio has said it will not disclose the exact amount, but told the Hollywood Reporter it will be “substantial”, FOX31 Denver has confirmed the studio’s donation is for the amount of $1 million.
---
more at the link
Waddles
07-24-2012, 04:08 PM
http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lanow/2012/07/colorado-shooting-suspects-ties-to-sex-website-matchcom-examined.html
interesting, the Match profile name quoted in above article comes up on other sites too, could be him-the proofreading and mp3 offers, twitter etc
wfgodot
07-24-2012, 04:10 PM
Apparent confirmation by MSM of DM's previous headline:
Sources: James Holmes Used Evidence Bags As Hand Puppets (http://www.thedenverchannel.com/news/31296912/detail.html) (denverchannel.com / ABC 7 News)
DENVER, Colo. -- Shortly after being arrested by police and taken to headquarters, James Holmes acted bizarrely and used evidence bags as hand puppets, according to sources familiar with the investigation.
Sources told CALL7 Investigator John Ferrugia that when Holmes, 24, was brought in after the mass shooting at an Aurora movie theater he sat wide-eyed, with his eyebrows twitching as detectives watched him.
---
more at the link
cece5300
07-24-2012, 04:11 PM
Thank you. Very interesting to note the differences between siblings. One outgoing, lots of friends. The suspect = loner/anti social.
5 year difference. A sister. The suspect good at school but sucked at relationships. The sister was very social. Lots of friends. Brother loner.
I think a piece of the puzzle is emerging.
WOuld that validate that he was not bio child of parents
I don't see a correlation. Anyone with children would know that some siblings have vastly different personalities. That's not at all unusual. And being a "loner" certainly does not mean they're going to grow up to be a mass murderer. Some kids are loners and end up being perfectly normal citizens. Some are very social and still end up being killers (the columbine shooters had friends, girlfriends, etc).
We may find out there were sme family secrets or histories, but it's also possible we may find that they're just a normal American family, go to church, go to school, have friends, and one child develops a mental illness and goes awry.
ETA
Also his sister was more outgoing in contrast to James. I have seen this family dynamic before with Seung-Hui Cho.
I've seen this dynamic with many family members and it does not mean anything though. My younger brother is more outgoing than I am, and I'm a normal citizen.
CARIIS
07-24-2012, 04:13 PM
Warner Bros. donating $1 million to theater shooting victims (http://kdvr.com/2012/07/24/warner-bros-donating-substantial-amount-to-theater-shooting-victims/) (kdvr.com)
more at the link
Hate big companies humm how did they get that number they could care less, IMO there worry is what is the frequency of copy cats gonna do to there pics run?
IMO if it keeps going (copy cats) talking heads are gonna start hassling WB to pull the release - which IMO they would gladly do in 9 weeks but now they WB will stall....
broomboys
07-24-2012, 04:14 PM
http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lanow/2012/07/colorado-shooting-suspects-ties-to-sex-website-matchcom-examined.html
interesting, the Match profile name quoted in above article comes up on other sites too, could be him-the proofreading and mp3 offers, twitter etc
THE FIVERR.COM account was accessed 15 hours ago, thus was likely not James Holmes.
21merc7
07-24-2012, 04:15 PM
^^^cece, I agree. I've said it before, being a loner does not mean you have any mental issues.
Also, anyone with siblings knows every single one is markedly different. Family of 3 siblings, 3 different personalities and different ways of dealing with the world. Including a law abiding loner.
Friends with 11 children. (Yes, 11 naturally born, lol!) All 11 are very different from each other psychologically. All healthy, happy, normal, but different.
21merc7
07-24-2012, 04:17 PM
Hate big companies humm how did they get that number they could care less, IMO there worry is what is the frequency of copy cats gonna do to there pics run?
IMO if it keeps going (copy cats) talking heads are gonna start hassling WB to pull the release - which IMO they would gladly do in 9 weeks but now they WB will stall....
Warner Bros is trying to nip any lawsuits in the bud, it is also a kind gesture, but you know. Not that I think any would be too successful, but if they went to a jury, the jury would give compensation. Also, lawsuits based on PTSD have a deadline of 2 years to file, so we will not know for about 2 1/2 years, if anyone actually files what the outcome would be.
oceanblueeyes
07-24-2012, 04:18 PM
I agree he is not insane. But his wiring is off.
He planned this and was able to get everything done in 4 months. Booby rigged his apartment. Turned up the radio thinking someone would go there. Then did this. Knew what to wear so if LE shot at him he should be well protected.
Then asked for a attorney. But does stupid things like play with his hands that are covered to contain evidence like pupets. He knows when to "play" dumb.
If anything maybe mental illness but def not insane.
I think the playing with the puppets was to convey he was rather bored and doesnt care about what he has done.
CARIIS
07-24-2012, 04:18 PM
I don't see a correlation. Anyone with children would know that some siblings have vastly different personalities. That's not at all unusual. And being a "loner" certainly does not mean they're going to grow up to be a mass murderer. Some kids are loners and end up being perfectly normal citizens. Some are very social and still end up being killers (the columbine shooters had friends, girlfriends, etc).
We may find out there were sme family secrets or histories, but it's also possible we may find that they're just a normal American family, go to church, go to school, have friends, and one child develops a mental illness and goes awry.
ETA
I've seen this dynamic with many family members and it does not mean anything though. My younger brother is more outgoing than I am, and I'm a normal citizen.
Check out the guy who wrote the book about them (Dave Cullen) -- actually there was one of each one very isolated and angery the other had freiends etc.
IMO the book was awesome and he has been ( Dave Cullen) ) huge this week.
Very bright , his stuff is based on TONS of research he did
awesome -- and I am sure you can find video of him from this week
his stuff really interesting...................
prima.facie
07-24-2012, 04:18 PM
I don't see a correlation. Anyone with children would know that some siblings have vastly different personalities. That's not at all unusual. And being a "loner" certainly does not mean they're going to grow up to be a mass murderer. Some kids are loners and end up being perfectly normal citizens. Some are very social and still end up being killers (the columbine shooters had friends, girlfriends, etc).
We may find out there were sme family secrets or histories, but it's also possible we may find that they're just a normal American family, go to church, go to school, have friends, and one child develops a mental illness and goes awry.
ETA
I've seen this dynamic with many family members and it does not mean anything though. My younger brother is more outgoing than I am, and I'm a normal citizen.
exactly.
that dynamic is found in my very own family....
i find it means absolutely nothing in regards to this case....
we are all wired differently - even w/in our families :)
jjenny
07-24-2012, 04:19 PM
Warner Bros is trying to nip any lawsuits in the bud, it is also a kind gesture, but you know. Not that I think any would be too successful, but if they went to a jury, the jury would give compensation. Also, lawsuits based on PTSD have a deadline of 2 years to file, so we will not know for about 2 1/2 years, if anyone actually files.
If movie companies were required to pay compensation for producing violent movies, they would have gone broke a long time ago.
21merc7
07-24-2012, 04:19 PM
I think the playing with the puppets was to convey he was rather bored and doesnt care abot what he has done.
While making fun of LE.
21merc7
07-24-2012, 04:20 PM
If movie companies were required to pay compensation for producing violent movies, they would have gone broke a long time ago.
They are not required.
prima.facie
07-24-2012, 04:20 PM
Hate big companies humm how did they get that number they could care less, IMO there worry is what is the frequency of copy cats gonna do to there pics run?
IMO if it keeps going (copy cats) talking heads are gonna start hassling WB to pull the release - which IMO they would gladly do in 9 weeks but now they WB will stall....
i find it a bit disingenuous to say a company does not care about the victims. how can anyone know that?
if they had done NOTHING...the same comments would be made...
damned if they do...damned if they dont.....
CARIIS
07-24-2012, 04:20 PM
THE FIVERR.COM account was accessed 15 hours ago, thus was likely not James Holmes.
Ah that is just a very odd way to state his sexual orientation!
"girls who like guys."
jjenny
07-24-2012, 04:22 PM
They are not required.
Well, assuming the company that made this movie is sued, why would the jury find them liable for anything?
21merc7
07-24-2012, 04:23 PM
Well, assuming the company that made this movie is sued, why would the jury find them liable for anything?
Juries are known to award large sums of money in civil suits, especially if the company/person is known to have $$$$.
I don't think WB has any liability in this at all, but that is me. People sue when they think they can. I would not sue WB. It has nothing to do with the company, movie, or anything tied to them.
CARIIS
07-24-2012, 04:24 PM
Warner Bros is trying to nip any lawsuits in the bud, it is also a kind gesture, but you know. Not that I think any would be too successful, but if they went to a jury, the jury would give compensation. Also, lawsuits based on PTSD have a deadline of 2 years to file, so we will not know for about 2 1/2 years, if anyone actually files what the outcome would be.
Really! That is amazing is that cause there gonna say you cant prove your really SUFFERING until you lose two years of life to the illiness
that is aweful
that would not do that with stright medical (MI stigma nonsense) if you cant breathe, for two years we can file a suit with X for COPD
HA ! Sad!
CARIIS
07-24-2012, 04:26 PM
Well, assuming the company that made this movie is sued, why would the jury find them liable for anything?
I agree at the end of the day (2019!) I think who is gonna have huge problems --- the University - he was a loner -
- that setting, (mainly proffs/admin) were the only group of people who could have been in the position to watch this person disintegrate................
jjenny
07-24-2012, 04:27 PM
I agree at the end of the day (2019!) I think who is gonna have huge problems --- the University - he was a loner -
- that setting, (mainly proffs/admin) were the only group of people who could have been in the position to watch this person disintegrate................
Being a loner is not illegal.
CARIIS
07-24-2012, 04:28 PM
exactly.
that dynamic is found in my very own family....
i find it means absolutely nothing in regards to this case....
we are all wired differently - even w/in our families :)
BUt definative correlation between mental illiness and genetics --- so if bio mom dad siblings suffer that is HUGE !
cece5300
07-24-2012, 04:29 PM
Suing Warner brothers is ridiculous. Should you also sue looney tunes for putting the idea in kids heads to blow stuff up with TNT/dynamite? While they're at it, sue people who make guns, because you know, guns kill people. Sue Marvel comics, too! Sue the Twilight people because you know, people could die if they get bit in the neck while playing vampire. Why don't we just sue everybody and their mother just because of something one unhinged person did??
I grew up with two brothers and two sisters - watching Batman, Spiderman, played Mortal Kombat. All of us are honor students, gifted, excelled in gymnastics, dance, science fair. I'm a college graduate with a husband and a baby and my brother is in college; sisters are just finishing high school.
Simply: you can't blame video games and movies for this kind of thing. You can't. Millions and millions of people have played a violent game or seen a violent movie and they're not rampaging mass murderers. Leave the blame with the person it belongs.
Also, good luck to the guy suing Warner Bros. he BOUGhT a ticket to the movie! He was all gung ho to see it. I understand he went through a traumatic experience, but that's not Warner Brothers fault and I think he's doing it for attention.
Check out the guy who wrote the book about them (Dave Cullen) -- actually there was one of each one very isolated and angery the other had freiends etc.
IMO the book was awesome and he has been ( Dave Cullen) ) huge this week.
Very bright , his stuff is based on TONS of research he did
awesome -- and I am sure you can find video of him from this week
Such a well written book! I own it. Highly recommend it. It clears up a lot of misconceptions I, as well as others, had about the tragedy.
CARIIS
07-24-2012, 04:32 PM
Being a loner is not illegal.
NO, my notion about his isolation is that (in terms of lawsuit junk) they were the only ones who (he was around noone) could have tried to get him help, could have called his parents and said we have some concerns here he has been at the top of the class and he just failed orals.
Like if you saw your neighbors lawn which had always been cut (anaolgy folks I know no reports of lawns!) and over a peroid of three months it was 9 feet high you might get concerned etc NO?
BUt u live next door - it seems other than school he was in his apt alone - so the only people who watched him fall apart is them that is what I meant............
CARIIS
07-24-2012, 04:34 PM
Suing Warner brothers is ridiculous. Should you also sue looney tunes for putting the idea in kids heads to blow stuff up with TNT/dynamite? While they're at it, sue people who make guns, because you know, guns kill people. Sue Marvel comics, too! Sue the Twilight people because you know, people could die if they get bit in the neck while playing vampire. Why don't we just sue everybody and their mother just because of something one unhinged person did??
I grew up with two brothers and two sisters - watching Batman, Spiderman, played Mortal Kombat. All of us are honor students, gifted, excelled in gymnastics, dance, science fair. I'm a college graduate with a husband and a baby and my brother is in college; sisters are just finishing high school.
Simply: you can't blame video games and movies for this kind of thing. You can't. Millions and millions of people have played a violent game or seen a violent movie and they're not rampaging mass murderers. Leave the blame with the person it belongs.
Also, good luck to the guy suing Warner Bros. he BOUGhT a ticket to the movie! He was all gung ho to see it. I understand he went through a traumatic experience, but that's not Warner Brothers fault and I think he's doing it for attention.
Such a well written book! I own it. Highly recommend it. It clears up a lot of misconceptions I, as well as others, had about the tragedy.
Me too awesome and I agree videos bunch of silliness and even if we go with there is a correlation you dont go sueing everyone you tell your kids you cant do it . You know ......parents job noone elses..........
*~Aimee~*
07-24-2012, 04:34 PM
I think the playing with the puppets was to convey he was rather bored and doesnt care about what he has done.
exactly - I think he thinks everyone is now wasting his intelligent time.
DevilsPlayThing
07-24-2012, 04:35 PM
Regarding prisoner treatment while in Sheriff custody. This varies from state and county - some counties have more than one facility for persons in Sheriff custody. Some are basic. Some have comprehensive medical facilities. Someone mentioned if a situation occurred - lawsuits would be filed against Sheriff Office.
In AZ - the Sheriff mostly - but combinations of The Sheriff, The Governor, The County, individual guards and deputies, The Jail itself, The State have all been named as Defendants in literally thousands of lawsuits. Some prisoner rights violations. Many prisoner next of kin whose family member died in the jail. There are just too many to explain the dynamic. Some of the lawsuits are filed by Government agencies against The Sheriff as well. So to say what does or does not occur - really varies. Sheriff custody is not the same as Police custody.
Anyone remember the college boy arrested and placed in custody. 5 days later no one had checked on him and he basically had a mental break. Handcuffed alone he tried to eat his own eyeglasses. Finally someone came and let him out.
Obviously not standard - trying to imagine what the inside of a jail is like and how people are treated is most likely not close to the reality.
CARIIS
07-24-2012, 04:36 PM
NO, my notion about his isolation is that (in terms of lawsuit junk) they were the only ones who (he was around noone) could have tried to get him help, could have called his parents and said we have some concerns here he has been at the top of the class and he just failed orals.
Like if you saw your neighbors lawn which had always been cut (anaolgy folks I know no reports of lawns!) and over a peroid of three months it was 9 feet high you might get concerned etc NO?
BUt u live next door - it seems other than school he was in his apt alone - so the only people who watched him fall apart is them that is what I meant............
ANd Virginia Tech gone through YEARS or this --- for same thing........................
*~Aimee~*
07-24-2012, 04:38 PM
Could the company be paying 1 mil with in the fine print if you accept you can't sue. Because if all 70+ goers (even ones not hurt but witnessed it) sued it would be well over 1 mil?
I am all for them to donate.....I am just wondering this??
CARIIS
07-24-2012, 04:38 PM
Regarding prisoner treatment while in Sheriff custody. This varies from state and county - some counties have more than one facility for persons in Sheriff custody. Some are basic. Some have comprehensive medical facilities. Someone mentioned if a situation occurred - lawsuits would be filed against Sheriff Office.
In AZ - the Sheriff mostly - but combinations of The Sheriff, The Governor, The County, individual guards and deputies, The Jail itself, The State have all been named as Defendants in literally thousands of lawsuits. Some prisoner rights violations. Many prisoner next of kin whose family member died in the jail. There are just too many to explain the dynamic. Some of the lawsuits are filed by Government agencies against The Sheriff as well. So to say what does or does not occur - really varies. Sheriff custody is not the same as Police custody.
Anyone remember the college boy arrested and placed in custody. 5 days later no one had checked on him and he basically had a mental break. Handcuffed alone he tried to eat his own eyeglasses. Finally someone came and let him out.
Obviously not standard - trying to imagine what the inside of a jail is like and how people are treated is most likely not close to the reality.
Yeh This varies from state and county that is what I learned from today here ---- it has to be different in some states here you get them their meds PEROID PEROID psyc or medical
lawsuit stuff
CARIIS
07-24-2012, 04:39 PM
Could the company be paying 1 mil with in the fine print if you accept you can't sue. Because if all 70+ goers (even ones not hurt but witnessed it) sued it would be well over 1 mil?
I am all for them to donate.....I am just wondering this??
AH ha I bet your right!
Rdw1981
07-24-2012, 04:42 PM
Heck if that is true Meryl Streep should be doing movies from jail with him! IMO we all gotta remember that the serious get down psyc meds take days to leave bloodstream!
And probably very little sleep the last week, obviouly been doing drugs (in car / his report) in prison, just shot a whole bunch of people etc etc
I would suppose kinda AUTHENTICALLY wiped -- to be able to give an academy award winning performance - hey it got the world talking huh?
IF an act it was the best performance I IMO, have every seen!
I do believe that he was and is very capable of faking his performance. We are not talking about your average killer here. Not taking into account that in all likelihood his IQ is in the genius level based on his academic history, the monster was studying nuroscience. One of the branches of neoscience is psychology issues related to nurological disorders. He not only is an extremely educated genius but most likely knows a whole lot more about psych disorders and the typical symptoms that individuals display with diagnosed with these dissorders. Disserves an accedemy award is saying the least. Most likely he's reviewed and studied countless case studies regarding neurological disorders. I'd bet the bank he's courtroom appearance was well thought out. Although I'm sure every shrink in the woodwork will be flooding the gates claiming that he suffers from this or that dissorder, in the end I'm convinced he is just down right evil right down to the core.
*~Aimee~*
07-24-2012, 04:42 PM
Suing Warner brothers is ridiculous. Should you also sue looney tunes for putting the idea in kids heads to blow stuff up with TNT/dynamite? While they're at it, sue people who make guns, because you know, guns kill people. Sue Marvel comics, too! Sue the Twilight people because you know, people could die if they get bit in the neck while playing vampire. Why don't we just sue everybody and their mother just because of something one unhinged person did??
I grew up with two brothers and two sisters - watching Batman, Spiderman, played Mortal Kombat. All of us are honor students, gifted, excelled in gymnastics, dance, science fair. I'm a college graduate with a husband and a baby and my brother is in college; sisters are just finishing high school.
Simply: you can't blame video games and movies for this kind of thing. You can't. Millions and millions of people have played a violent game or seen a violent movie and they're not rampaging mass murderers. Leave the blame with the person it belongs.
Also, good luck to the guy suing Warner Bros. he BOUGhT a ticket to the movie! He was all gung ho to see it. I understand he went through a traumatic experience, but that's not Warner Brothers fault and I think he's doing it for attention.
Such a well written book! I own it. Highly recommend it. It clears up a lot of misconceptions I, as well as others, had about the tragedy.
Kind of like the parents that tried to sue OZZY for suicide solution (I think it was that song) because their son commented suicide? They did not win but - and the ones that bought the record to burn so it would not sell only gave more $ to Ozzy (than not even buying it)
jjenny
07-24-2012, 04:44 PM
Could the company be paying 1 mil with in the fine print if you accept you can't sue. Because if all 70+ goers (even ones not hurt but witnessed it) sued it would be well over 1 mil?
I am all for them to donate.....I am just wondering this??
What are they going to sue for? They all purchased the ticket to see this movie.
CARIIS
07-24-2012, 04:45 PM
AN aside IMO IMO i think we all are in for a real info lapse .............Olympics in 3 days (awesome) but media gonna really go away................Most folks who dont like this stuff are over it IMO, it is depressing, new reporters are prob burnt out and welcomeing somethying happy
Ugh now watch something horrible happen there but u know what I mean...............
jjenny
07-24-2012, 04:48 PM
NO, my notion about his isolation is that (in terms of lawsuit junk) they were the only ones who (he was around noone) could have tried to get him help, could have called his parents and said we have some concerns here he has been at the top of the class and he just failed orals.
Like if you saw your neighbors lawn which had always been cut (anaolgy folks I know no reports of lawns!) and over a peroid of three months it was 9 feet high you might get concerned etc NO?
BUt u live next door - it seems other than school he was in his apt alone - so the only people who watched him fall apart is them that is what I meant............
Whether you got or didn't get concerned over your neighbor's lawn, are you proposing that you become responsible/liable for your neighbor's behavior if he didn't cut his lawn? Your neighbor didn't cut his lawn, and therefore you are now responsible/liable for anything he did?
*~Aimee~*
07-24-2012, 04:48 PM
What are they going to sue for? They all purchased the ticket to see this movie.
Well there already is one trying to sue - so ask them?
http://theblemish.com/2012/07/the-first-lawsuit-against-james-holmes-is-here/
1. The theater. Karpel claims it was negligent for the theater to have an emergency door in the front that was not alarmed or guarded. It’s widely believed Holmes entered the theater with a ticket, propped the emergency door open from inside, went to his car and returned with guns.
2. Holmes’ doctors. Karpel says it appears Holmes was on several medications — prescribed by one or more doctors – at the time of the shooting and he believes the docs did not properly monitor Holmes.
3. Warner Bros. Karpel says “Dark Knight Rises” was particularly violent and Holmes mimicked some of the action. The attorney says theater goers were helpless because they thought the shooter was part of the movie. Karpel tells TMZ, “Somebody has to be responsible for the rampant violence that is shown today.”
*~Aimee~*
07-24-2012, 04:49 PM
AN aside IMO IMO i think we all are in for a real info lapse .............Olympics in 3 days (awesome) but media gonna really go away................Most folks who dont like this stuff are over it IMO, it is depressing, new reporters are prob burnt out and welcomeing somethying happy
Ugh now watch something horrible happen there but u know what I mean...............
until July 30th - then will be news again - when he returns to court.
jjenny
07-24-2012, 04:54 PM
Well there already is one trying to sue - so ask them?
http://theblemish.com/2012/07/the-first-lawsuit-against-james-holmes-is-here/
1. The theater. Karpel claims it was negligent for the theater to have an emergency door in the front that was not alarmed or guarded. It’s widely believed Holmes entered the theater with a ticket, propped the emergency door open from inside, went to his car and returned with guns.
People can sue for anything and everything. Doesn't mean they are going to get any money out of it.
DevilsPlayThing
07-24-2012, 04:55 PM
Regarding the person filing suit - it is not a good idea. Some persons who were victims of a 1999 event were interviewed on media. Even took part in a movie. Some went on Sally Jesse Raphael. After each media appearance or sometimes just a comment to a friend - a statement was taken once again. These were child victims. Some now in wheelchairs.
One of these child victims after years of trying to heal and change laws - moved out of state. He was placed involuntary into a psych hospital by the Governor.
It will not be the money - that any one cares about in this lawsuit. It will be the information that comes out.
*~Aimee~*
07-24-2012, 04:58 PM
People can sue for anything and everything. Doesn't mean they are going to get any money out of it.
only the court would know - I am just answering your question.
Originally Posted by jjenny:
What are they going to sue for? They all purchased the ticket to see this movie.
I guess it depends on the jury and everything - Shoot look at CA (we all thought pretty much guilty and nope she was aquitted - only the court time will tell if they get $)
DEPUTYDAWG
07-24-2012, 05:01 PM
NO, my notion about his isolation is that (in terms of lawsuit junk) they were the only ones who (he was around noone) could have tried to get him help, could have called his parents and said we have some concerns here he has been at the top of the class and he just failed orals. Like if you saw your neighbors lawn which had always been cut (anaolgy folks I know no reports of lawns!) and over a peroid of three months it was 9 feet high you might get concerned etc NO?
BUt u live next door - it seems other than school he was in his apt alone - so the only people who watched him fall apart is them that is what I meant............
BBM -
Respectfully, I disagree, at least on what we know so far.
First, he's an adult in a graduate program. Where is their responsibility to call his parents to tell them they've seen a decline in his academics? I don't think most colleges do that when students have poor academic performance in one semester, etc.
We don't really know yet, what outward personality/hygiene/behavior changes he had in the last 6 months or so. If he was always a loner, always shy, always quiet, maybe that's his normal behavior.
As a human being, I would hope someone in his group (professor/staff or other student) would care and try to help or say something IF they did see a marked decline in his well being. But we don't know yet...maybe there wasn't a big change in his demeanor, behavior, personal habits, etc.
Or, have I missed something, that he really was spiraling out of control?
CARIIS
07-24-2012, 05:04 PM
OH yea that is the divide! Evil or ill. Isn’t that the mystery for the world not just here --- my notion however, is there is a lot of miss communication - in that folks who think ill , we are not forgiving his harm , just giving causation a different flavor.
There is no reason, IMO; if we even go there (!) for this dude to possibly believe that faking being out of it is going to do anything as it relates to his future
What does his faking do for him? Prolong execution- ash we can’t even impose a death penalty on someone with one charge!!
IMO THAT makes no sense, if those who believe he is faking (indicating they believe he is oriented to what is going on) THEN he KNOWS insanity is irrelvant this is going to (71 charges please!) go on until 2025! If he is that present he knows it does nothing for him.
sadly it is totally irrelevant - he will be off the streets for 48 years while they work through charges, and then as a result of the body count no system is going to let him free so when the case is on its first verdict when he is 48 and the appeals start and then he is 62 and the next appeal happens........
Actually the mental health field (much like Bundy IMO IMO) has an opportunity here in that, unlike most other rampage killers, he is alive....an opportunity (IMO Bundy tought forensic psyc TONS) to learn warning signs, treatment , prevenation etc
. That is the only possible positive thing out of this mess...........
CARIIS
07-24-2012, 05:12 PM
BBM -
Respectfully, I disagree, at least on what we know so far.
First, he's an adult in a graduate program. Where is their responsibility to call his parents to tell them they've seen a decline in his academics? I don't think most colleges do that when students have poor academic performance in one semester, etc.
We don't really know yet, what outward personality/hygiene/behavior changes he had in the last 6 months or so. If he was always a loner, always shy, always quiet, maybe that's his normal behavior.
As a human being, I would hope someone in his group (professor/staff or other student) would care and try to help or say something IF they did see a marked decline in his well being. But we don't know yet...maybe there wasn't a big change in his demeanor, behavior, personal habits, etc.
Or, have I missed something, that he really was spiraling out of control?
As a human being, I would hope someone in his group (professor/staff or other student) would care and try to help or say something IF they did see a marked decline in his well being. all I am trying to say!
Repectfully, I disagree, grad school is really diff its very small , diff relatioship with proffs , my hang up with admin from the beginning is only three days later did someone find out about him failing the progression test.
That is HUGE HUGE in grad school, and we got a 3.9 genius, who failed, and was offerred to give it a go again, and the next thing is an email, see ya IMO any grad program in the world would address it.
BUt IMO this admin did not cause what everyone saw (students are not gonna "tell" they want their degree!) they all IMO know they should have addressed it, i bet they are quietly doing guilt
70 people lives are messed up now cause the few people that saw changes did nothing ....that is sad, IMO he has slipped through the cracks, and as a result of that , here we all are ...............................sad more than anything
OneLostGrl
07-24-2012, 05:13 PM
And I can guarantee at any jail in the country, if you come in spitting at everyone, they are going to medicate you and quickly.
Ever been to jail? It can take awhile before you are even seen by a nurse. I have Bipolar and ended up going off all my meds and ending up psychotic before I got my meds... all while in jail. You don't get meds just for spitting at people, trust me.
jjenny
07-24-2012, 05:14 PM
BBM -
Respectfully, I disagree, at least on what we know so far.
First, he's an adult in a graduate program. Where is their responsibility to call his parents to tell them they've seen a decline in his academics? I don't think most colleges do that when students have poor academic performance in one semester, etc.
We don't really know yet, what outward personality/hygiene/behavior changes he had in the last 6 months or so. If he was always a loner, always shy, always quiet, maybe that's his normal behavior.
As a human being, I would hope someone in his group (professor/staff or other student) would care and try to help or say something IF they did see a marked decline in his well being. But we don't know yet...maybe there wasn't a big change in his demeanor, behavior, personal habits, etc.
Or, have I missed something, that he really was spiraling out of control?
He is an adult. It would not even be legal for the University to call his parents. And University is not a babysitter for a 24 year old adult male. Nobody is going to follow him around watching his every mood swing.
OneLostGrl
07-24-2012, 05:15 PM
While you can guarantee it, I don't think that rumor about him spitting is accurate.
Nobody can guarantee anything like that.
lovelydork
07-24-2012, 05:18 PM
a complete lack of empathy and compassion for fellow human beings? YES
mental illness? NO
This was careful, meticulous, drawn-out calculation
could have called his parents and said we have some concerns here he has been at the top of the class and he just failed orals.
This would be a violation of Federal Law. The Family Educational Rights and Privacy Act (FERPA) to be specific.
The school cannot share that information with the parents of an adult student unless that student has specifically authorized them to in writing.
http://www2.ed.gov/policy/gen/guid/fpco/ferpa/index.html
CARIIS
07-24-2012, 05:19 PM
Whether you got or didn't get concerned over your neighbor's lawn, are you proposing that you become responsible/liable for your neighbor's behavior if he didn't cut his lawn? Your neighbor didn't cut his lawn, and therefore you are now responsible/liable for anything he did?
Not responsible -------------a caring homo sapian!
And trust me IMO, that is not gonna be the only thing that is gonna emerge. IMo colleagues school officials would have noticed just my opinion just my opinion just my opinion just my opinion degradation in personal care, missing some classes, missing work, increased agitation, probably more stuff that indicates he is getting high (calm calm everyone) -- go for gun dude that said he basically sounded DRUNK on outgoing VM)
My guess purchasing 6000 rounds might be time consuming! NOw the big unaddressed issue is $???????
From where?
Just my opinion Just my opinion Just my opinion Just my opinion
wfgodot
07-24-2012, 05:19 PM
Judge William Sylvester has ordered that no cameras will be allowed in an Arapahoe County courtroom when James Holmes is formally brought on charges next Monday.
---
Reuters (http://live.reuters.com/Event/Colorado_Dark_Knight_Shooting/35837113)
HMSHood
07-24-2012, 05:19 PM
I wonder if there is any handwriting from James Holmes. It would certainly reveal something about him.
CARIIS
07-24-2012, 05:22 PM
Ever been to jail? It can take awhile before you are even seen by a nurse. I have Bipolar and ended up going off all my meds and ending up psychotic before I got my meds... all while in jail. You don't get meds just for spitting at people, trust me.
BUt go for the whole presentation -- where you are - that cities attitude toward mental health -- laws -- staffing-- liabilites-- etc etc. I really do think it is diff in states .......
What you just shared IS HORRIBLE - do I know it happens YES-- have I seen it change slowly _- yes --- my anguish is it has changed only cause everyone is afraid of $$$ not more caring or doing what is right , or helping those suffering with mental illiness
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
Pathetic huh - you suffered....................
HMSHood
07-24-2012, 05:22 PM
a complete lack of empathy and compassion for fellow human beings? YES
mental illness? NO
This was careful, meticulous, drawn-out calculation
I am thinking Holmes has very low tolerance for failure and is emotionally immature. He does not have any empathy. I have seen his kind before. Osama bin Laden, Lori Drew, and Seung-Hui Cho come to mind. Bin Laden, Drew, and Cho have very low tolerance for failure. Immaturity runs rampant in them.
Footwarrior
07-24-2012, 05:23 PM
AN aside IMO IMO i think we all are in for a real info lapse .............Olympics in 3 days (awesome) but media gonna really go away................Most folks who dont like this stuff are over it IMO, it is depressing, new reporters are prob burnt out and welcomeing somethying happy
Ugh now watch something horrible happen there but u know what I mean...............
The media can be counted on to chase the latest story. There were several dozen media companies that camped outside Columbine high school after the massacre. So many that reporters were having trouble finding where their crews. They all pulled up stakes and headed south after tornados hit Oklahoma City,
CARIIS
07-24-2012, 05:23 PM
Reuters (http://live.reuters.com/Event/Colorado_Dark_Knight_Shooting/35837113)
oh dear that is terrible, just like Luka.................I do kinda think those of us in the world who do want to know (OJ/Casey) I think that is IMO WRONG IMO
21merc7
07-24-2012, 05:24 PM
Reuters (http://live.reuters.com/Event/Colorado_Dark_Knight_Shooting/35837113)
Whew! At least we will get written updates! I was scared until I read the Order.
Sonya610
07-24-2012, 05:25 PM
AURORA, Colo. — The studio that made “The Dark Knight Rises” has told sources it will be making a donation to victims of the July 20 shooting at an Aurora movie theater that was screening a premiere of the film.
While the studio has said it will not disclose the exact amount, but told the Hollywood Reporter it will be “substantial”, FOX31 Denver has confirmed the studio’s donation is for the amount of $1 million.
1 mil? Very generous of them. Without a doubt this movie will do MUCH better after this incredible publicity, many people (like me) that never would have considered watching it will now watch just for the heck of it.
Unless the profits from in theater sale losses (vs online/cable/video sales) are substantial the Producers know this is the best publicity possible.
CARIIS
07-24-2012, 05:27 PM
The media can be counted on to chase the latest story. There were several dozen media companies that camped outside Columbine high school after the massacre. So many that reporters were having trouble finding where their crews. They all pulled up stakes and headed south after tornados hit Oklahoma City,
That is what I am saying relusive parents, no cameras, gag orders, olympics, guys we are s******* just like Luka
Except for true crime lovers this is done.................... I know people that did not even want (or care) to talk about it Friday morning
Aweful huh , I need bananas gotta go (!!) you know what I mean guys............
CARIIS
07-24-2012, 05:28 PM
Whew! At least we will get written updates! I was scared until I read the Order.
BUt is that gonna be only like a bunch of legal jargon ??
i.b.nora
07-24-2012, 05:30 PM
Reuters (http://live.reuters.com/Event/Colorado_Dark_Knight_Shooting/35837113)
The judge's order can be seen here:
http://www.scribd.com/doc/100971407/State-v-Holmes-EMC-Order-Dated-7-24-12
21merc7
07-24-2012, 05:30 PM
BUt is that gonna be only like a bunch of legal jargon ??
I read it. Scratch that, I re-read it. Now I think it just means that the 3 new media outlets that asked cannot bring in cameras. I'm confusing myself now.
CARIIS
07-24-2012, 05:33 PM
1 mil? Very generous of them. Without a doubt this movie will do MUCH better after this incredible publicity, many people (like me) that never would have considered watching it will now watch just for the heck of it.
Unless the profits from in theater sale losses (vs online/cable/video sales) are substantial the Producers know this is the best publicity possible.
I never thought of that angle -- I agree! Disgusting huh! back to $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
CARIIS
07-24-2012, 05:35 PM
I read it. Scratch that, I re-read it. Now I think it just means that the 3 new media outlets that asked cannot bring in cameras. I'm confusing myself now.
OH good all we need is one!
21merc7
07-24-2012, 05:38 PM
OH good all we need is one!
Yep, well, I can't watch, I'll be at work. But I will sneak peaks at everyones updates and any tweet sites I can find.
Wait a minute, I'm confused again. Why does Rueters say NO cameras. I've gotta' go re-read the Order again and stop doing 12 things at once.
cece5300
07-24-2012, 05:39 PM
In the order I thought it says the hearing is open to public and media?
ETA
I read it. Scratch that, I re-read it. Now I think it just means that the 3 new media outlets that asked cannot bring in cameras. I'm confusing myself now.
Oh! Thank you! It is confusing to me too so thanks for clearing it up!
jjenny
07-24-2012, 05:40 PM
This would be a violation of Federal Law. The Family Educational Rights and Privacy Act (FERPA) to be specific.
The school cannot share that information with the parents of an adult student unless that student has specifically authorized them to in writing.
http://www2.ed.gov/policy/gen/guid/fpco/ferpa/index.html
Exactly.
The University couldn't have called his parents even if they did notice something. And there is no information that there was anything to notice. From the description of his fellow students, he was quiet, he would show up in class. Nobody mentioned any sort of outburst. It's not illegal to be a quiet loner.
CARIIS
07-24-2012, 05:42 PM
Yep, well, I can't watch, I'll be at work. But I will sneak peaks at everyones updates and any tweet sites I can find.
Wait a minute, I'm confused again. Why does Rueters say NO cameras. I've gotta' go re-read the Order again and stop doing 12 things at once.
Is this another state to state thing ause heck here we did Casey (to the point of vomiting!)
prima.facie
07-24-2012, 05:44 PM
BUt go for the whole presentation -- where you are - that cities attitude toward mental health -- laws -- staffing-- liabilites-- etc etc. I really do think it is diff in states .......
What you just shared IS HORRIBLE - do I know it happens YES-- have I seen it change slowly _- yes --- my anguish is it has changed only cause everyone is afraid of $$$ not more caring or doing what is right , or helping those suffering with mental illiness
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
Pathetic huh - you suffered....................
im curious what state you are talking about? what state do you know of that when a suspect is booked he is handed his jumpsuit and a little cup of pills based on.....???......
*bad behavior (ever seen how drunks act when arrested? they will spit on you, throw a toddler tantrum, etc.....bad behavior)
*based on believing the suspect when he says "hey i need me some percs because im in pain"?
*based on the opinion of jail staff that he needs some meds because they dont like the way he looks or acts?
who makes THAT decision to hand them over a cup of pills? we really want our law enforcement dishing out pills based on their opinions? that is some dangerous territory to be entering....what if you get arrested for drinking too much and acting out and the government decides to medicate you w/out knowing if that pill will cause you to have a heart attack or die?
logic says that law enforcement officers at a county jail cannot nor should hand out medication to a newly incarcerated suspect w/out a full medical history diagnosis by a doctor.
has nothing to do with $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ it has to do with 1. liability 2. the profession of people who are handling the subject 3. medical history given by a professional (ie doctor).
on top of that, it is not the duty of a LE professional at the county jail to sit around and care about and be counselor to the inmate and diagnosis mental disorders. i think you may be confusing law enforcement with the medical community ?
21merc7
07-24-2012, 05:46 PM
In the order I thought it says the hearing is open to public and media?
ETA
Oh! Thank you! It is confusing to me too so thanks for clearing it up!
I haven't cleared it up. I've messed it up! I keep getting confused on the only 3 stations asking, it was granted to the first hearing, but denied now. So I'm guessing only the 3 stations were there for the first hearing. They cannot bring cameras for the coming hearing. They can be there.
ETA: Okay, looked at the first order for the hearing that was televised. It is here:
http://www.courts.state.co.us/userfiles/file/Court_Probation/18th_Judicial_District/18th_Courts/12CR1522/Extended%20Media%20Coverage%20and%20Decorum%20Orde r%207-20-12.pdf
Only 3 news outlets asked and were granted cameras, etc..., then. Now that is denied, so, NO CAMERAS.
Rdw1981
07-24-2012, 05:51 PM
OH yea that is the divide! Evil or ill. Isn’t that the mystery for the world not just here --- my notion however, is there is a lot of miss communication - in that folks who think ill , we are not forgiving his harm , just giving causation a different flavor.
There is no reason, IMO; if we even go there (!) for this dude to possibly believe that faking being out of it is going to do anything as it relates to his future
What does his faking do for him? Prolong execution- ash we can’t even impose a death penalty on someone with one charge!!
IMO THAT makes no sense, if those who believe he is faking (indicating they believe he is oriented to what is going on) THEN he KNOWS insanity is irrelvant this is going to (71 charges please!) go on until 2025! If he is that present he knows it does nothing for him.
sadly it is totally irrelevant - he will be off the streets for 48 years while they work through charges, and then as a result of the body count no system is going to let him free so when the case is on its first verdict when he is 48 and the appeals start and then he is 62 and the next appeal happens........
Actually the mental health field (much like Bundy IMO IMO) has an opportunity here in that, unlike most other rampage killers, he is alive....an opportunity (IMO Bundy tought forensic psyc TONS) to learn warning signs, treatment , prevenation etc
. That is the only possible positive thing out of this mess...........
Actually faking it could get him out of it someday if he convinces the court that he is insane. If this happens he will be sent to a mental hospital where if it is determined the he is someday cured he can be set free. It's called innocent be reason of insanity. The implying that he is "innocent" once he is determined to no longer be a threat to society (in other words cured) he can be discharged from a mental hospital because he would not be "legally guilty" of anything. For example, Susan Smith's doctors are trying to get her released from the mental hospital she was sent to following killing her 5 children. I'm not saying that he will get off; what I am saying is I believe he's trying to fake insanity with the hopes of this happening. As for my labeling him as pure evil, sorry if thats not a politically correct term but some serious offenders are just that. I don't believe in coddling these monsters by giving them some classy mental illness term. He's sick, hes evil, he's a monster.
CARIIS
07-24-2012, 05:52 PM
Exactly.
The University couldn't have called his parents even if they did notice something. And there is no information that there was anything to notice. From the description of his fellow students, he was quiet, he would show up in class. Nobody mentioned any sort of outburst. It's not illegal to be a quiet loner.
No, law you referrring to would be overrided by any notion of possible harm to self or others..... again IMO folks only thinking there were IMO only one "sign" (failed a test)
.
Again IMO we shall find there were such glaring data as to decomp it will blow our minds , danger to self will trump showing a report card! Neighbor stating he saw him smoking pot out back (poor judegement he lived alone why not inside HIS apt?)
Obviously his outer behaviors in folks who either passed him from a far while he was buying a gun OR EVEN A PERSON WHO HEARD HIS vm were alarmed --- those in grad school with him (and their educated they would know danger to self or others stuff)
This IMO was slow degragatin.. but we do have data from the lady in bar, gun store , rifele range, that he drew attention and made most uncomfortable. Classic metnal health issue........................
wfgodot
07-24-2012, 05:55 PM
AURORA, Colo. (AP) — Batman star Christian Bale is in Colorado visiting victims of the shooting at a theater showing "The Dark Knight Rises."
A Warner Bros. spokeswoman told The Denver Post on Tuesday that Bale was representing himself, not the movie studio.
---
a bit more at the link:
BATMAN STAR CHRISTIAN BALE VISITS SHOOTING VICTIMS (http://bigstory.ap.org/article/batman-star-christian-bale-visits-shooting-victims) (AP)
CARIIS
07-24-2012, 05:56 PM
im curious what state you are talking about? what state do you know of that when a suspect is booked he is handed his jumpsuit and a little cup of pills based on.....???......
*bad behavior (ever seen how drunks act when arrested? they will spit on you, throw a toddler tantrum, etc.....bad behavior)
*based on believing the suspect when he says "hey i need me some percs because im in pain"?
*based on the opinion of jail staff that he needs some meds because they dont like the way he looks or acts?
who makes THAT decision to hand them over a cup of pills? we really want our law enforcement dishing out pills based on their opinions? that is some dangerous territory to be entering....what if you get arrested for drinking too much and acting out and the government decides to medicate you w/out knowing if that pill will cause you to have a heart attack or die?
logic says that law enforcement officers at a county jail cannot nor should hand out medication to a newly incarcerated suspect w/out a full medical history diagnosis by a doctor.
has nothing to do with $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ it has to do with 1. liability 2. the profession of people who are handling the subject 3. medical history given by a professional (ie doctor).
on top of that, it is not the duty of a LE professional at the county jail to sit around and care about and be counselor to the inmate and diagnosis mental disorders. i think you may be confusing law enforcement with the medical community ?
Base level staff , get mental health person . FL . Worked in jails. Staff contacted us for further eval. But no, never in the past 10 years (cover you a** mentality) would an inmate that was behaving that way be left for days!
How long ago was your experience with being neglected in that setting? Dont remember if it was you but if it was what year........................
CARIIS
07-24-2012, 05:57 PM
a bit more at the link:
BATMAN STAR CHRISTIAN BALE VISITS SHOOTING VICTIMS (http://bigstory.ap.org/article/batman-star-christian-bale-visits-shooting-victims) (AP)
THATS AWESOME that warms my heart more than WB million............
i.b.nora
07-24-2012, 05:57 PM
The judge's order can be seen here:
http://www.scribd.com/doc/100971407/State-v-Holmes-EMC-Order-Dated-7-24-12
I interpret the order to mean that because the hearing will be open to both the public and the media and because the defense is opposed to 'live' or expanded media coverage of the proceeding, the judge has weighed the pros and cons and has ruled that there will be NO audio, video, or still camera coverage of the hearing by the media. They will need to pay attention to the proceedings and then go outside and report it to their respective audiences.
Thats how I understand the order.
rollinginit
07-24-2012, 06:01 PM
My daughter goes to OSU. 2 yr.
I don't know her grades, professors, money situation, her aid or scholarship info, I receive
NO correspondences from the school at all, nor do I know or have anything to do with her schedule or classes. I have my own sign in information....and trust me, it's basically just a "you owe this" page. That's it.
Even though I have fill out FAFSA every year and enter our life story on there.....and they base everything off of us and our income.......the school still does not tell us anything
about her at all. Trust me....shooter parents didn't know anything other than what the shooter told them. They wouldn't have even known if he dropped out.....well, maybe so if a few months down the road (usually 6 mths after you quit, graduate, or drop below full time)and the shooter may
have got a few "you owe us money" bills from sally Mae or whoever else if he had loans. Depending on how and if the parents co- signed of course. But most loans are based on repayment that doesn't start until 6 mths.
Edited to add... I really do know all that stuff listed above bc my daughter tells me or shows me. But if she was out of state or something....I might not know.
*~Aimee~*
07-24-2012, 06:01 PM
1 mil? Very generous of them. Without a doubt this movie will do MUCH better after this incredible publicity, many people (like me) that never would have considered watching it will now watch just for the heck of it.
Unless the profits from in theater sale losses (vs online/cable/video sales) are substantial the Producers know this is the best publicity possible.
I don't plan on watching it. The last one was supposed to be big since Heath Ledger's last movie and I could not sit through it even though I am a big Heath Ledger fan.
BrownRice
07-24-2012, 06:02 PM
Warner Bros. donating $1 million to theater shooting victims (http://kdvr.com/2012/07/24/warner-bros-donating-substantial-amount-to-theater-shooting-victims/) (kdvr.com)
more at the link
Oh that should really impact their pockets. A million dollars?
I know it's not their fault, but really? That's like pennies to us.
CARIIS
07-24-2012, 06:02 PM
Base level staff , get mental health person . FL . Worked in jails. Staff contacted us for further eval. But no, never in the past 10 years (cover you a** mentality) would an inmate that was behaving that way be left for days!
How long ago was your experience with being neglected in that setting? Dont remember if it was you but if it was what year........................
And I would hope that a DUI arrest claiming that he she was on meds would be different in terms of LE knowing they better get a doc in for eval after the arrested shot up a theatre, booby trapped an apartment, is found in the back of a theatre, with more ammo that the war in Iran, claiming to be the joker, with some substance in his car, admitted he did some vicodin.
I would certainly hope that even in that sit they would know they prob ought to get someone with training for an eval.
I would also hope that if same individual started a puppet show that would be an indicator that someone with training might have to check it out! STAT!
katydid23
07-24-2012, 06:03 PM
As a human being, I would hope someone in his group (professor/staff or other student) would care and try to help or say something IF they did see a marked decline in his well being. all I am trying to say!
Repectfully, I disagree, grad school is really diff its very small , diff relatioship with proffs , my hang up with admin from the beginning is only three days later did someone find out about him failing the progression test.
That is HUGE HUGE in grad school, and we got a 3.9 genius, who failed, and was offerred to give it a go again, and the next thing is an email, see ya IMO any grad program in the world would address it.
BUt IMO this admin did not cause what everyone saw (students are not gonna "tell" they want their degree!) they all IMO know they should have addressed it, i bet they are quietly doing guilt
70 people lives are messed up now cause the few people that saw changes did nothing ....that is sad, IMO he has slipped through the cracks, and as a result of that , here we all are ...............................sad more than anything
How exactly does the school 'address' it? Is it now illegal for a student to drop out of an elite graduate program?
What are they supposed to do ? Call an adult's parents? Call a mental hospital or call the cops?
Are you seriously trying to blame the school for these deaths now?
CARIIS
07-24-2012, 06:04 PM
I interpret the order to mean that because the hearing will be open to both the public and the media and because the defense is opposed to 'live' or expanded media coverage of the proceeding, the judge has weighed the pros and cons and has ruled that there will be NO audio, video, or still camera coverage of the hearing by the media. They will need to pay attention to the proceedings and then go outside and report it to their respective audiences.
Thats how I understand the order.
Ok so it will not be live 9 hours a day but there is not a deal wherein noone can say anything about what went on daily?
BrownRice
07-24-2012, 06:05 PM
Could the company be paying 1 mil with in the fine print if you accept you can't sue. Because if all 70+ goers (even ones not hurt but witnessed it) sued it would be well over 1 mil?
I am all for them to donate.....I am just wondering this??
Is it $1M total or each person? I thought it was total.
jjenny
07-24-2012, 06:07 PM
How exactly does the school 'address' it? Is it now illegal for a student to drop out of an elite graduate program?
What are they supposed to do ? Call an adult's parents? Call a mental hospital or call the cops?
Are you seriously trying to blame the school for these deaths now?
For whatever reason, some people want to blame everybody and everything, except the person responsible. Schools really can not do much even if their student does some really bizarre stuff, and in this case there is no information JH was doing anything bizarre while in school.
CARIIS
07-24-2012, 06:09 PM
How exactly does the school 'address' it? Is it now illegal for a student to drop out of an elite graduate program?
What are they supposed to do ? Call an adult's parents? Call a mental hospital or call the cops?
Are you seriously trying to blame the school for these deaths now?
No this is not about blame none if it..... it is about caring for another human being , but the pattern is folks seem to have this beleif in my opin that there were not a whole host of behaviors prior to quitting GRAD school.
IMO the world will see, there were months of stuff that would give anyone cause for concern and they did nothing. All they had to do was call LE and if LE felt he needed an eval they would have taken him to get one!
None of this is blame, none even if I was not "friends" with a colleague in grad school, and I noticed, that he she had gone from 3.9 to fail it would have been discussed, we would have asked the person, we would have bought it to our proffs,
obviously several people near the end had concerns over both his behaviors and his dress ... SIGNS SIGNS SIGNS !
that is ALL I am saying
BrownRice
07-24-2012, 06:10 PM
a bit more at the link:
BATMAN STAR CHRISTIAN BALE VISITS SHOOTING VICTIMS (http://bigstory.ap.org/article/batman-star-christian-bale-visits-shooting-victims) (AP)
Now that's cool.
katydid23
07-24-2012, 06:11 PM
No, law you referrring to would be overrided by any notion of possible harm to self or others..... again IMO folks only thinking there were IMO only one "sign" (failed a test)
.
Again IMO we shall find there were such glaring data as to decomp it will blow our minds , danger to self will trump showing a report card! Neighbor stating he saw him smoking pot out back (poor judegement he lived alone why not inside HIS apt?)
Obviously his outer behaviors in folks who either passed him from a far while he was buying a gun OR EVEN A PERSON WHO HEARD HIS vm were alarmed --- those in grad school with him (and their educated they would know danger to self or others stuff)
This IMO was slow degragatin.. but we do have data from the lady in bar, gun store , rifele range, that he drew attention and made most uncomfortable. Classic metnal health issue........................
If every neighbor that saw a college student smoking pot out side his apt, called to try and report it, our entire planet would be in gridlock.
CARIIS
07-24-2012, 06:12 PM
No this is not about blame none if it..... it is about caring for another human being , but the pattern is folks seem to have this beleif in my opin that there were not a whole host of behaviors prior to quitting GRAD school.
IMO the world will see, there were months of stuff that would give anyone cause for concern and they did nothing. All they had to do was call LE and if LE felt he needed an eval they would have taken him to get one!
None of this is blame, none even if I was not "friends" with a colleague in grad school, and I noticed, that he she had gone from 3.9 to fail it would have been discussed, we would have asked the person, we would have bought it to our proffs,
obviously several people near the end had concerns over both his behaviors and his dress ... SIGNS SIGNS SIGNS !
that is ALL I am saying
To me, this is an open and shut case. The school has already received a $55,000 fine from the U.S. Education Department after a state panel investigation found officials erred in not sending a warning alert out earlier
THis is my deal I think they are being hush hush now
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/mari-fagel/did-virginia-tech-fail_b_1321378.html
wfgodot
07-24-2012, 06:13 PM
Christian Bale (http://yfrog.com/nty56utj), at the hospital.
matou
07-24-2012, 06:16 PM
Christian Bale (http://yfrog.com/nty56utj), at the hospital.
:heartbeat::heartbeat::heartbeat::heartbeat::heart beat::heartbeat::heartbeat:
magnolia
07-24-2012, 06:16 PM
Actually faking it could get him out of it someday if he convinces the court that he is insane. If this happens he will be sent to a mental hospital where if it is determined the he is someday cured he can be set free. It's called innocent be reason of insanity. The implying that he is "innocent" once he is determined to no longer be a threat to society (in other words cured) he can be discharged from a mental hospital because he would not be "legally guilty" of anything. For example, Susan Smith's doctors are trying to get her released from the mental hospital she was sent to following killing her 5 children. I'm not saying that he will get off; what I am saying is I believe he's trying to fake insanity with the hopes of this happening. As for my labeling him as pure evil, sorry if thats not a politically correct term but some serious offenders are just that. I don't believe in coddling these monsters by giving them some classy mental illness term. He's sick, hes evil, he's a monster.
Susan Smith was never sent to a mental institution. She was sent to prison for killing her two sons.
Andrea Yates was sent to a mental institution for drowning her five children.
CARIIS
07-24-2012, 06:16 PM
If every neighbor that saw a college student smoking pot out side his apt, called to try and report it, our entire planet would be in gridlock.
Patterns,dying hair odd color , failing boards, dropping outof elite grad school after doing great a year, , scaring gun store owners, gun range people refusing admission, and that is all we know now there will be IMO tons of signs for months . IMO IMOIMOIMOIMOIMO
jjenny
07-24-2012, 06:20 PM
Susan Smith was never sent to a mental institution. She was sent to prison for killing her two sons.
Andrea Yates was sent to a mental institution for drowning her five children.
Yes, it was Andrea Yates. In the near future, she could be released back into society.
http://abcnews.go.com/Health/MindMoodNews/andrea-yates-released-psychiatric-hospital-attend-church/story?id=16021269#.UA5opaDwGSo
jjenny
07-24-2012, 06:22 PM
To me, this is an open and shut case. The school has already received a $55,000 fine from the U.S. Education Department after a state panel investigation found officials erred in not sending a warning alert out earlier
THis is my deal I think they are being hush hush now
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/mari-fagel/did-virginia-tech-fail_b_1321378.html
You are talking about apples and oranges. In Virgina Tech, their student killed other students on their campus. They are fined because they didn't send an alert earlier about a gunman being on campus. JH was not on campus.
katydid23
07-24-2012, 06:27 PM
No this is not about blame none if it..... it is about caring for another human being , but the pattern is folks seem to have this beleif in my opin that there were not a whole host of behaviors prior to quitting GRAD school.
IMO the world will see, there were months of stuff that would give anyone cause for concern and they did nothing. All they had to do was call LE and if LE felt he needed an eval they would have taken him to get one!
None of this is blame, none even if I was not "friends" with a colleague in grad school, and I noticed, that he she had gone from 3.9 to fail it would have been discussed, we would have asked the person, we would have bought it to our proffs,
obviously several people near the end had concerns over both his behaviors and his dress ... SIGNS SIGNS SIGNS !
that is ALL I am saying
You say you are not 'blaming' the school, yet reread your own words:
"BUt IMO this admin did not cause what everyone saw (students are not gonna "tell" they want their degree!) they all IMO know they should have addressed it, i bet they are quietly doing guilt
70 people lives are messed up now cause the few people that saw changes did nothing ....that is sad, IMO he has slipped through the cracks, and as a result of that , here we all are ...............................sad more than anything"
It sounds to me like you are blaming the University. I think that is pretty unfair.
You say they should have called LE. About what? A student drops out of his grad program and LE is going to do what?
And is there a link to your final statement :
"obviously several people near the end had concerns over both his behaviors and his dress ... SIGNS SIGNS SIGNS ! "
To me, this is an open and shut case. The school has already received a $55,000 fine from the U.S. Education Department after a state panel investigation found officials erred in not sending a warning alert out earlier
THis is my deal I think they are being hush hush now
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/mari-fagel/did-virginia-tech-fail_b_1321378.html
The fine is because you had a shooting on campus and no one was notified for two hours....and at that point it was too late because more people had been shot.
CARIIS
07-24-2012, 06:31 PM
a study at a mental institution in New York found that patients spend a far larger amount of time committed than they would have spent in prison for their crimes.
are likely to spend as much or more time confined in a psychiatric ..
www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/crime/trial/faqs.html.
When it succeeds, offenders generally spend more time in mental institutions than they would have spent in prison if they had ..www.cliffsnotes.com/.../Legal-Defenses-Justifications-for-Crimes
. insanity can easily spend more time in a mental institution than the defendant .suite101.com › ... › Law, Crime & Justice › Penal System
Persons judged NGRI spend more time in mental hospitals than in jail.www.u.arizona.edu/~dusana/psych381winter05/lecture13.ppt
www.nolo.com/legal.../defenses-criminal-charges-30275.html
These defendants can spend more time in a mental institution than they would have spent in prison had they been convicted
they may actually spend more time locked up in a mental institution than if they ...
ncadp.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=usa&action=display
use the insanity plea often spend more time institutionalized than they would ...www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/crime/talk/
Spend more time in mental hospitals than in jail
www.abac.edu/PSYC2201/pdf6/Ch16.pdf
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