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View Full Version : Allison Baden-Clay - GENERAL DISCUSSION THREAD #37


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SoSueMe
05-18-2012, 11:30 AM
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Gerard Bayden-Clay has been arrested and charged with the murder of Allison Bayden-Clay


Thread 1

Thread 2 (http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=170913&page=46)
Thread 3 (http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=171159&page=18)
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Thread 14 (http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=173624&page=37)
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Thread 21 (http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=8045871&posted=1#post8045871)
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Thread 31 ( http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=177738)
Thread 32

Thread 33

Thread 34

Thread 35

Thread 36


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Kimster
05-22-2012, 10:05 AM
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05-27-2012, 11:26 AM
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06-17-2012, 10:10 AM
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summer_breeze
07-21-2012, 07:42 AM
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LauraMars
08-07-2012, 09:41 AM
First in, first served, for the first time! :)

BigT
08-07-2012, 10:18 AM
Consider for a moment the evidence so far is weak. He might be guilty of a lot of things and is certainly accused of just about anything in this forum, but, he is on remand and is not convicted of a crime yet. What is the behavior anyone one in jail that really should not be there?

So what has not been offered up from GBC side of the story is a plausible excuse for who did it. Put yourself in his place, would you be screaming for whoever did it to flush them out?

What sort of turn up would it be to find that NBC is the one and was at the house to follow up on being called bwanna or something or was accused of covering up affair, and GBC won't dob him. Part of knowing someone is guilty is knowing that no one else did it. Possibilities are still there.

Maigret
08-07-2012, 05:34 PM
Oh I think googling 'Taking the Fifth' when you are just reporting that your wife hasn't returned from an early morning walk pretty much means that you know exactly where she is and what has happened to her - did he go looking - no because he knew it was a waste of time - she was far far away from the search area

linette
08-07-2012, 05:41 PM
This is what has always been missing... the fact that there has never been any cry outs from the BC's "Please, please find whoever did this to our Allison." If GBC was innocent, or if his family really thought he was, then we would have seen their pleads, but we haven't. IMO

ollijack
08-07-2012, 06:35 PM
Consider for a moment the evidence so far is weak. He might be guilty of a lot of things and is certainly accused of just about anything in this forum, but, he is on remand and is not convicted of a crime yet. What is the behavior anyone one in jail that really should not be there?

So what has not been offered up from GBC side of the story is a plausible excuse for who did it. Put yourself in his place, would you be screaming for whoever did it to flush them out?

What sort of turn up would it be to find that NBC is the one and was at the house to follow up on being called bwanna or something or was accused of covering up affair, and GBC won't dob him. Part of knowing someone is guilty is knowing that no one else did it. Possibilities are still there.

Yes, Yes, Yes......I do think GBC did it. but......NBC ring's lot's of bell's for me.......have alway's thought it may have been him (NBC)....we have heard of his arrogant short fuse personality.......hmmmmmmm

linette
08-07-2012, 06:40 PM
Yes, Yes, Yes......I do think GBC did it. but......NBC ring's lot's of bell's for me.......have alway's thought it may have been him (NBC)....we have heard of his arrogant short fuse personality.......hmmmmmmm

It is possible... but if that's the case then GBC is going to have to answer to his kids as to why he thought his fathers wellbeing was anymore important than their mothers.

For him to 'take the blame' for something his father did, makes me think that they really believe he will get off. It is also an awful lot for any parent to expect their child to pay the price for them.

Personally, I'm still going with GBC did it, but his father either helped or knows exactly what happened. Anymore than that, I'm not sure of. Not sure of who else might be involved. But 'daddy' a sure thing for me. IMO

linette
08-07-2012, 06:56 PM
If my son was arrested for something that I KNEW he didn't do I'd be shouting from the rooftops "You're wasting time here, the real killer is still out there!! PLEASE stop looking at my son, and find the real killer." Plus, I'd be heartbroken for the loss of his wife, and for the fact that my son could spend his life in jail for something he didn't do. Plus, I'd be hurting over the fact my son has just lost his wife and is now being accused of her murder and in pain for my grandkids that they're losing BOTH parents. There are sooooo many things come into play here. I couldn't function.

In this case, it's more a "How can we get him off? Best if we shut our mouths and hope for the best."

Where is the anguish and pain? Where is the desperation to find who really committed this crime? I guess there's not much you can do when you know they have the right person and all you have left is to try and get them off.

enthralled
08-07-2012, 06:58 PM
Consider for a moment the evidence so far is weak. He might be guilty of a lot of things and is certainly accused of just about anything in this forum, but, he is on remand and is not convicted of a crime yet. What is the behavior anyone one in jail that really should not be there?

So what has not been offered up from GBC side of the story is a plausible excuse for who did it. Put yourself in his place, would you be screaming for whoever did it to flush them out?

What sort of turn up would it be to find that NBC is the one and was at the house to follow up on being called bwanna or something or was accused of covering up affair, and GBC won't dob him. Part of knowing someone is guilty is knowing that no one else did it. Possibilities are still there.

Interesting idea however it doesnt make sense for gbc to take the fall for nbc.
nbc is getting on in age so his years are definitely numbered. gbc on the other hand has a young family and many years yet still. he also has tm to run off to. I cant imagine him taking the wrap for his dad or the rest of the family letting him.

On a lighter note - nbc (according to his realestate profile) sees himself as a "big game hunter". he likes to put his victims on a wall, not in a creek bed. all qps would have to do is check the local dry cleaners and see if his safari suit has been put in to be cleaned around the time of the murder.

ollijack
08-07-2012, 07:14 PM
If my son was arrested for something that I KNEW he didn't do I'd be shouting from the rooftops "You're wasting time here, the real killer is still out there!! PLEASE stop looking at my son, and find the real killer." Plus, I'd be heartbroken for the loss of his wife, and for the fact that my son could spend his life in jail for something he didn't do. Plus, I'd be hurting over the fact my son has just lost his wife and is now being accused of her murder and in pain for my grandkids that they're losing BOTH parents. There are sooooo many things come into play here. I couldn't function.

In this case, it's more a "How can we get him off? Best if we shut our mouths and hope for the best."

Where is the anguish and pain? Where is the desperation to find who really committed this crime? I guess there's not much you can do when you know they have the right person and all you have left is to try and get them off.

Linette....you are absolutely spot on.....xxxxx

Dodo
08-07-2012, 08:38 PM
If my son was arrested for something that I KNEW he didn't do I'd be shouting from the rooftops "You're wasting time here, the real killer is still out there!! PLEASE stop looking at my son, and find the real killer." Plus, I'd be heartbroken for the loss of his wife, and for the fact that my son could spend his life in jail for something he didn't do. Plus, I'd be hurting over the fact my son has just lost his wife and is now being accused of her murder and in pain for my grandkids that they're losing BOTH parents. There are sooooo many things come into play here. I couldn't function.

In this case, it's more a "How can we get him off? Best if we shut our mouths and hope for the best."

Where is the anguish and pain? Where is the desperation to find who really committed this crime? I guess there's not much you can do when you know they have the right person and all you have left is to try and get the

off.

So true! They haven't done ANY of these things. Personally i think they're too scared to even attempt any of the above scenarios because they will be seen through straight away as 'acting'. What a shame that lack of appropriate response to situations can't be analyzed by experts and used 'to an extent' as evidence. I know that is what happened to Lindy chamberlain and that was dreadful, but there are so many examples of 'strange' behavior exhibited by the BC clan that I think cumulatively if they were read out to a jury, there wouldn't be much doubt.

All just my opinion (and anybody who can breathe me thinks) of course. MOO etc

louisepiglet
08-07-2012, 09:19 PM
Consider for a moment the evidence so far is weak. He might be guilty of a lot of things and is certainly accused of just about anything in this forum, but, he is on remand and is not convicted of a crime yet. What is the behavior anyone one in jail that really should not be there?

So what has not been offered up from GBC side of the story is a plausible excuse for who did it. Put yourself in his place, would you be screaming for whoever did it to flush them out?

What sort of turn up would it be to find that NBC is the one and was at the house to follow up on being called bwanna or something or was accused of covering up affair, and GBC won't dob him. Part of knowing someone is guilty is knowing that no one else did it. Possibilities are still there.


I can see NBC being involved in a cover up for GBC but not the other way around. IMO GBC killed ABC, either in a rage or in a premeditated act, but I feel he still loves his children. I can't see him taking the fall for daddy at the expense of not being with his daughters and having them think that he killed their mother. IMO.

louisepiglet
08-07-2012, 09:22 PM
If my son was arrested for something that I KNEW he didn't do I'd be shouting from the rooftops "You're wasting time here, the real killer is still out there!! PLEASE stop looking at my son, and find the real killer." Plus, I'd be heartbroken for the loss of his wife, and for the fact that my son could spend his life in jail for something he didn't do. Plus, I'd be hurting over the fact my son has just lost his wife and is now being accused of her murder and in pain for my grandkids that they're losing BOTH parents. There are sooooo many things come into play here. I couldn't function.

In this case, it's more a "How can we get him off? Best if we shut our mouths and hope for the best."

Where is the anguish and pain? Where is the desperation to find who really committed this crime? I guess there's not much you can do when you know they have the right person and all you have left is to try and get them off.

Ye, yes, yes Linette. Exactly my thoughts.

Humdinger
08-07-2012, 10:36 PM
Page 1 and so many good posts already :) I did snort a little about NBC's safari suit LOL

squizzey1
08-07-2012, 11:02 PM
If my son was arrested for something that I KNEW he didn't do I'd be shouting from the rooftops "You're wasting time here, the real killer is still out there!! PLEASE stop looking at my son, and find the real killer." Plus, I'd be heartbroken for the loss of his wife, and for the fact that my son could spend his life in jail for something he didn't do. Plus, I'd be hurting over the fact my son has just lost his wife and is now being accused of her murder and in pain for my grandkids that they're losing BOTH parents. There are sooooo many things come into play here. I couldn't function.

In this case, it's more a "How can we get him off? Best if we shut our mouths and hope for the best."

Where is the anguish and pain? Where is the desperation to find who really committed this crime? I guess there's not much you can do when you know they have the right person and all you have left is to try and get them off.
exactly linette. if i was gbc and i hadn't done it i would be saying to cops and everyone else for christs sake leave me alone and go find the bastard/s who did this and let me get back to my kids, i will even get a Private eye in so this can be sorted. guilty , guilty guilty

enthralled
08-08-2012, 01:29 AM
http://www.icac.nsw.gov.au/dmdocuments/pub2_27ia1.pdf

Hope I have done this correctly. This is a link provided by "keentoknow" back in thread 36. I found it quite an eye opener. the first 20 pages really gave me a different picture of prison life and more importantly protective custody. I had visions of protective custody being a bit like the holiday inn. This document soon changed that idea. Admittedly it is not the same prison nor has it happened whilst gbc is incarcerated but it does show what type of things can still happen in there and that gbc will always have to watch his back, no matter what.

GEANIE
08-08-2012, 02:42 AM
Page 1 and so many good posts already :) I did snort a little about NBC's safari suit LOL

It's a wonder GBC didn't wear his scout uniform to court for the bail hearing?????:fence:
Might have won him some 'Brownie Points'.....:jail:

linette
08-08-2012, 03:09 AM
It's a wonder GBC didn't wear his scout uniform to court for the bail hearing?????:fence:
Might have won him some 'Brownie Points'.....:jail:

haha, he probably only uses that for 'special occassions'. :blushing:

GEANIE
08-08-2012, 03:44 AM
haha, he probably only uses that for 'special occassions'. :blushing:

Sarafi suits might be back in fashion by the time he gets out????:woohoo:
He might need one??? 'Africa Calls'

I think NBC did not do the deed....or that would give GBC a home and hosed suitation....the money, the sympathy and the right to continue on...'Business as Usual' he couldn't give a rats a%$^..... some one would have done him a favour!!!!....Even his father would not mean 'Jack ****' as long as he was free to continue with his blindfolding every one....:banghead: Business and socially wise...The people he was trying to impress...:what:
Also OW must have had an eye opener at the bail hearing to go from spokes woman to 'Ostrich' burying her head in the sand.:please:

I have a theory on the bomb scare.... ( re; first bail hearing)....but not game to post.....:banghead:
This is not my theory but it was funny how evidence of 12.30 face line call came into place just before court hearing...which day was that????
:moo::banghead::maddening::what::please:

linette
08-08-2012, 04:31 AM
Sarafi suits might be back in fashion by the time he gets out????:woohoo:
He might need one??? 'Africa Calls'

I think NBC did not do the deed....or that would give GBC a home and hosed suitation....the money, the sympathy and the right to continue on...'Business as Usual' he couldn't give a rats a%$^..... some one would have done him a favour!!!!....Even his father would not mean 'Jack ****' as long as he was free to continue with his blindfolding every one....:banghead: Business and socially wise...The people he was trying to impress...:what:
Also OW must have had an eye opener at the bail hearing to go from spokes woman to 'Ostrich' burying her head in the sand.:please:

I have a theory on the bomb scare.... ( re; first bail hearing)....but not game to post.....:banghead:
This is not my theory but it was funny how evidence of 12.30 face line call came into place just before court hearing...which day was that????
:moo::banghead::maddening::what::please:

Re the bomb scare... what came of that? Did police say what their suspicions were? I know at first they thought it might have been linked to a bikie case earlier in the day, the they found out it was directed at the room GBC was appearing in. Correct me if I'm wrong there. So is it possible that it was the same judge presiding over both cases, or a direct threat on the murder case?

If it was anything to do with GBC it could be 2 reasons... 1. someone was trying to hold up proceedings or 2. someone was trying to send him a message {like, we don't like what you've done}

Hopefully the police could in some way find out where the call came from?

I also don't think NBC killed Allison, but I reckon he helped or knows a lot.

Humdinger
08-08-2012, 05:27 AM
Yes the bomb threat was fascinating! I could list a heap of possibilities, but TBH none of them seem plausible... It is just crazy that it happened, I really really hope that we get to find out the truth about that!

Keentoknow
08-08-2012, 06:46 AM
I may be wrong but I thought we could not discuss the bomb scare, have a vague memory of Summer telling us this?? Can someone clarify please?'

marlywings
08-08-2012, 07:17 AM
I may be wrong but I thought we could not discuss the bomb scare, have a vague memory of Summer telling us this?? Can someone clarify please?'

Yep you're right Keentoknow...



Everyone:

There will be no (none, zero, zilch) discussion or comments or speculation or opinions about whether or not police/law enforcement were involved in the court house bomb scare permitted.

Further discussion or comments will earn you an immediate time out.

summer_breeze
08-08-2012, 07:20 AM
I may be wrong but I thought we could not discuss the bomb scare, have a vague memory of Summer telling us this?? Can someone clarify please?'

Hi Keentoknow. We can discuss the bomb scare itself.

Just to clarify:

My ask was that we not say/speculate that the police, lawyers on the GBC case, or court personnel were involved and staged the bomb scare!!! (Unless there is official information otherwise)

I find it odd that there seems to be little follow up public information on the bomb scare.

linette
08-08-2012, 07:23 AM
Yep you're right Keentoknow...

I'm sorry, I thought it meant no discussion about if police were involved. I wasn't implying that in any way at all.

Keentoknow
08-08-2012, 07:24 AM
Yep you're right Keentoknow...

Should I remove my post as well?

summer_breeze
08-08-2012, 07:26 AM
You are both fine! No worries. :D

linette
08-08-2012, 07:27 AM
Hi Keentoknow. We can discuss the bomb scare itself.

Just to clarify:

My ask was that we not say/speculate that the police, lawyers on the GBC case, or court personnel were involved and staged the bomb scare!!! (Unless there is official information otherwise)

I find it odd that there seems to be little follow up public information on the bomb scare.

Thank you for the explanation, Summer. That's what I thought you meant in your request.
I think a lot of us find it odd that there has been so little information about it.

Keentoknow
08-08-2012, 07:37 AM
Thank you for the explanation, Summer. That's what I thought you meant in your request.
I think a lot of us find it odd that there has been so little information about it.

Hi Linette....I never heard anymore about the bomb scare either.....
They would have ways of being able to trace the call.
When we would get a bomb scare we would try to hold the person on the phone long enough to get a trace on them.

CJ60
08-08-2012, 07:42 AM
Posters!

Where the b***** hell are you!
:floorlaugh::floorlaugh::floorlaugh::floorlaugh:

Just call me Lara Bingle, Berry!

Keentoknow
08-08-2012, 07:47 AM
Posters!

Where the b***** hell are you!
:floorlaugh::floorlaugh::floorlaugh::floorlaugh:

I was the only person here before..I felt like an onion sitting in a Petunia patch.:floorlaugh:

Berry
08-08-2012, 07:48 AM
Hi Linette....I never heard anymore about the bomb scare either.....
They would have ways of being able to trace the call.
When we would get a bomb scare we would try to hold the person on the phone long enough to get a trace on them.

This Bomb Scare info would be damaging to the case I feel and be prejudicial and the 'public' would be tainted for jury etc....

Hence no news about this JMO

Keentoknow
08-08-2012, 07:58 AM
This Bomb Scare info would be damaging to the case I feel and be prejudicial and the 'public' would be tainted for jury etc....

Hence no news about this JMO

You are so right. Less is best.....Good to see you Berry:angel:

linette
08-08-2012, 08:07 AM
Hi Linette....I never heard anymore about the bomb scare either.....
They would have ways of being able to trace the call.
When we would get a bomb scare we would try to hold the person on the phone long enough to get a trace on them.

Did it say the person called, or was there a note? I forget now.

Keentoknow
08-08-2012, 08:12 AM
Did it say the person called, or was there a note? I forget now.

Not sure. Either way they are very disrupting.

possumheart
08-08-2012, 08:48 AM
Not sure. Either way they are very disrupting.

It is always stressful to remember the drill in a crisis. But QLDers have alot of smarts for floods, fires, bombscares, Inland tsunamis, so on ... Business as usual

linette
08-08-2012, 09:04 AM
It is always stressful to remember the drill in a crisis. But QLDers have alot of smarts for floods, fires, bombscares, Inland tsunamis, so on ... Business as usual

But clearly there is one QLD'er who doesn't have a lot of smarts... for anything. :floorlaugh:

Well... at LEAST one

Keentoknow
08-08-2012, 09:09 AM
But clearly there is one QLD'er who doesn't have a lot of smarts... for anything. :floorlaugh:

Well... at LEAST one

Sometimes their elevator does not go to the top or they have one wheel in the sand lol:floorlaugh::floorlaugh:

BigT
08-08-2012, 09:26 AM
It does not make sense that a hoax is related to GBC bail hearing IMO, his SC was in the middle of an important address apparently. There was last days of Sica, and some Bikies being heard in the same court on the day, so there would be a high potential for someone to have an axe to grind. Chief Justice was furious, rightly so, some of the most expensive park benches ever seen in Brisbane that day.

Berry
08-08-2012, 09:39 AM
Haha sorry to laugh Big T but that was good

BigT
08-08-2012, 09:49 AM
Haha sorry to laugh Big T but that was good

What's the rate of fundamental invoice for time sitting on the park bench, maybe it gets higher? Can it get any higher? :twocents:

Keentoknow
08-08-2012, 09:54 AM
What's the rate of fundamental invoice for time sitting on the park bench, maybe it gets higher? Can it get any higher? :twocents:

Wonder what the cost was to GBC for the 2 days and if they raised enough money to pay for it.

Mountain Misst
08-08-2012, 05:03 PM
You are both fine! No worries. :D

This sounds like someone is picking up the Aussie lingo does it not? What a cracker. Will have to give you the Aussie salute Summer Breeze....

BigT
08-08-2012, 05:52 PM
SC about $5,000 per day, allow a couple of days for reading and consulting so $20,000 should cover him, Lawyer to make the applications and instruct would add about $10,000. All up bail application you would budget about $30,000. This would also give you an idea of how much you need to budget to go to trial. I dont think that justice can be bought, but it seems people without the budget receive the greater share of injustice...

Tully2
08-08-2012, 06:07 PM
SC about $5,000 per day, allow a couple of days for reading and consulting so $20,000 should cover him, Lawyer to make the applications and instruct would add about $10,000. All up bail application you would budget about $30,000. This would also give you an idea of how much you need to budget to go to trial. I dont think that justice can be bought, but it seems people without the budget receive the greater share of injustice...

Great posts :rocker:

Keentoknow
08-08-2012, 06:10 PM
SC about $5,000 per day, allow a couple of days for reading and consulting so $20,000 should cover him, Lawyer to make the applications and instruct would add about $10,000. All up bail application you would budget about $30,000. This would also give you an idea of how much you need to budget to go to trial. I dont think that justice can be bought, but it seems people without the budget receive the greater share of injustice...

Defiantly not Sunday school money.

possumheart
08-08-2012, 11:12 PM
On topic as this relates to Arthur Gorrie correctional centre

"A Queensland Corrective Services spokesman said prisoners could make as many calls as they could afford a day ... Each prisoner has 10 nominated numbers and the prison will call these people to confirm their permission."

http://www.news-mail.com.au/story/2012/07/26/stalker-targets-victim-from-his-jailc-ell/

Woof
08-08-2012, 11:26 PM
It does not make sense that a hoax is related to GBC bail hearing IMO, his SC was in the middle of an important address apparently. There was last days of Sica, and some Bikies being heard in the same court on the day, so there would be a high potential for someone to have an axe to grind. Chief Justice was furious, rightly so, some of the most expensive park benches ever seen in Brisbane that day.

I was just about to say this Big T! It's possible that the caller was not involved with GBC. Which coud be why we have heard nothing further.

possumheart
08-08-2012, 11:52 PM
Bomb threat at Brisbane court
http://www.sunshinecoastdaily.com.au/story/2012/06/21/bomb-threat-brisbane-court/

Interesting this wording: "That was the court where Baden-Clay's lawyers were making his bid for freedom a week after he was accused of murdering his wife Allison at their Brookfield home on April 19 and interfering with her corpse at Kholo Creek the same night."

... at Kholo Creek the same night??? Does this reinforce the placement rather than the washed down theory????

Makara
08-09-2012, 12:26 AM
It does not make sense that a hoax is related to GBC bail hearing IMO, his SC was in the middle of an important address apparently. There was last days of Sica, and some Bikies being heard in the same court on the day, so there would be a high potential for someone to have an axe to grind. Chief Justice was furious, rightly so, some of the most expensive park benches ever seen in Brisbane that day.

I agree BigT. IMO the bomb scare had nothing at all to do with GBC. The Sica and bikie trials had the potential to attract some nut job wanting attention.

Bomb threat at Brisbane court
http://www.sunshinecoastdaily.com.au/story/2012/06/21/bomb-threat-brisbane-court/

Interesting this wording: "That was the court where Baden-Clay's lawyers were making his bid for freedom a week after he was accused of murdering his wife Allison at their Brookfield home on April 19 and interfering with her corpse at Kholo Creek the same night."

... at Kholo Creek the same night??? Does this reinforce the placement rather than the washed down theory????

It does sound that way Possum. Perhaps the investigators have found evidence that Allison was actually dumped under the bridge as opposed to being washed down by floodwaters.

Possum, you've been to where Allison was found, do you think there is any possibility whatsoever for someone to conceal their car there and dump Allison's body where it was found? Let's say for example that this was actually how it happened and forget all other scenarios, how difficult would it be and what would be the physical aftermath on the perp? Firstly they would have to be reasonably fit IMO. From the photos I've seen of where Allison was found, the perp would more than likely have sustained scratches from foliage, had muddy shoes and clothing and could possibly have been bitten by insects etc. Maybe even a caterpillar or two. :floorlaugh: Mud and flora would have then been transferred into his vehicle. Could one person have disposed of Allison where she was found? And the big question, why Kholo Creek? Why there? So many questions! :banghead:

Humdinger
08-09-2012, 12:31 AM
Bomb threat at Brisbane court
http://www.sunshinecoastdaily.com.au/story/2012/06/21/bomb-threat-brisbane-court/

Interesting this wording: "That was the court where Baden-Clay's lawyers were making his bid for freedom a week after he was accused of murdering his wife Allison at their Brookfield home on April 19 and interfering with her corpse at Kholo Creek the same night."

... at Kholo Creek the same night??? Does this reinforce the placement rather than the washed down theory????

Good spotting Possum! I think that she was put there rather than washed there.

linette
08-09-2012, 12:54 AM
Good spotting Possum! I think that she was put there rather than washed there.

Not knowing the area, apart from photos, I'm still not 100% on whether Allison was left there or somewhere else.
By the forensics, do you think that the police would KNOW for sure, or still be unsure? I know forensics give away a lot of info.

Mountain Misst
08-09-2012, 12:55 AM
Bomb threat at Brisbane court
http://www.sunshinecoastdaily.com.au/story/2012/06/21/bomb-threat-brisbane-court/

Interesting this wording: "That was the court where Baden-Clay's lawyers were making his bid for freedom a week after he was accused of murdering his wife Allison at their Brookfield home on April 19 and interfering with her corpse at Kholo Creek the same night."

... at Kholo Creek the same night??? Does this reinforce the placement rather than the washed down theory????

We have to think literally when we read anything legal - the corpse could have been deposited in any part of the Kholo Creek precinct. By that I mean anywhere along Kholo Creek not just at the bridge.

Makara
08-09-2012, 01:13 AM
We have to think literally when we read anything legal - the corpse could have been deposited in any part of the Kholo Creek precinct. By that I mean anywhere along Kholo Creek not just at the bridge.

I agree Mountain Misst but is there easy access anywhere else along Kholo Creek is what I'm wondering? There's the scout camp further upstream I suppose, so then I'm back to square one. :banghead:

I'm also wondering if the defence will publicly reveal any of the prosecution's details when they hand it over on 20 August? Do the defence jump up and down saying the prosecution is wrong in this, this and this etc.?

Opinionsgalore
08-09-2012, 01:22 AM
Not knowing the area, apart from photos, I'm still not 100% on whether Allison was left there or somewhere else.
By the forensics, do you think that the police would KNOW for sure, or still be unsure? I know forensics give away a lot of info.

If Allisons body had been dumped under the bridge, the evidence would be in the soil that was under her body.
Bodily fluids, decay would have seeped into the area directly beneath her, so I imagine forensics would be able to determine when her body was either put there as opposed to washed down.


All MOO.

possumheart
08-09-2012, 01:26 AM
Possum, you've been to where Allison was found, do you think there is any possibility whatsoever for someone to conceal their car there and dump Allison's body where it was found? Let's say for example that this was actually how it happened and forget all other scenarios, how difficult would it be and what would be the physical aftermath on the perp? Firstly they would have to be reasonably fit IMO. From the photos I've seen of where Allison was found, the perp would more than likely have sustained scratches from foliage, had muddy shoes and clothing and could possibly have been bitten by insects etc. Maybe even a caterpillar or two. :floorlaugh: Mud and flora would have then been transferred into his vehicle. Could one person have disposed of Allison where she was found? And the big question, why Kholo Creek? Why there? So many questions! :banghead:

The first time I went there I really felt he could have parked on the left and two people could have gone to the edge of the slope and swung the body down by hands and feet (sorry). But when I went back and went down under the bridge I didn't feel as strongly about that possibility. The problem is I am going on a feeling. That's not science ... so I hope forensics sorted that out very clearly. You look down from the slope, you feel dizzy. You go under the bridge, look up, feel dizzy. The emotions take over.

possumheart
08-09-2012, 01:44 AM
Not forgetting to mention the black duck that swam by when I was under the bridge.
He's not talking either

DrWatson
08-09-2012, 01:45 AM
Bomb threat at Brisbane court
http://www.sunshinecoastdaily.com.au/story/2012/06/21/bomb-threat-brisbane-court/

Interesting this wording: "That was the court where Baden-Clay's lawyers were making his bid for freedom a week after he was accused of murdering his wife Allison at their Brookfield home on April 19 and interfering with her corpse at Kholo Creek the same night."

... at Kholo Creek the same night??? Does this reinforce the placement rather than the washed down theory????

Kholo Creek is quite long. It doesn't say specifically "under the road bridge"....

I still reckon (and it's a pure guess, of course) that it would have been either somewhere up near the scout camp, or (perhaps more likely) just off the road on the upstream side of the bridge, and right at the point where Little Ugly Creek flows into Kholo Creek. Down the bank in the scrub right there. Then the rains came.........

Makara
08-09-2012, 02:09 AM
Kholo Creek is quite long. It doesn't say specifically "under the road bridge"....

I still reckon (and it's a pure guess, of course) that it would have been either somewhere up near the scout camp, or (perhaps more likely) just off the road on the upstream side of the bridge, and right at the point where Little Ugly Creek flows into Kholo Creek. Down the bank in the scrub right there. Then the rains came.........

No Doc, the bridge isn't mentioned at all but I do recall that the bail hearing affidavit mentioned Allison being dumped at Kholo Creek where she was found or words to that effect. I'll have to find the link to that one. I do agree with you that placing Allison's body at the junction of Little Ugly and Kholo Creeks is feasible but surely there would be a strong likelihood of being seen at or near the bridge? Little Ugly Creek bridge stands out for me to be the place where a body could be dumped without being seen. The body could then have been washed into Kholo Creek by the floodwaters and came to rest where it was found but that doesn't seem to be what QPS are saying. :banghead:

Makara
08-09-2012, 02:20 AM
I contacted the Mt. Crosby Historical Society a while back asking for information on the origin of the name Kholo as I couldn't find much about it on line. Below is the reply I received. What I was wanting to know is whether Little Ugly Creek was ever known as Kholo Creek. Were these two waterways ever referred to as one and the same.

Dear Makara,

I'm afraid the Mt Crosby Historical Society has not yet been able to ascertain the origins of the name "Kholo". This is the name of the surrounding parish, and it appears in the official records from the mid 19th century. Kholo Creek was also known as "Ugly Gully" - if you search for either of these terms on Trove (www.trove.nla.gov.au) you will find many interesting photographs and newspaper articles. Note that Kholo Bridge is some distance away from Kholo Creek - the bridge crosses the Brisbane River from the Kholo peninsula area, heading towards Ipswich. Kholo Creek is near Mt Crosby and is crossed by a bridge on Mt Crosby Road on the way into Brisbane.

I'm sorry I can't be of any further assistance, but best of luck with your researches.

Judy Nissen
Professional Historian
judith.nissen@internode.on.net

DrWatson
08-09-2012, 02:47 AM
No Doc, the bridge isn't mentioned at all but I do recall that the bail hearing affidavit mentioned Allison being dumped at Kholo Creek where she was found or words to that effect.

Good point, Makara. Will be interesting to see it all unfold, albeit ever so slowly....

marlywings
08-09-2012, 03:21 AM
No Doc, the bridge isn't mentioned at all but I do recall that the bail hearing affidavit mentioned Allison being dumped at Kholo Creek where she was found or words to that effect. I'll have to find the link to that one. I do agree with you that placing Allison's body at the junction of Little Ugly and Kholo Creeks is feasible but surely there would be a strong likelihood of being seen at or near the bridge? Little Ugly Creek bridge stands out for me to be the place where a body could be dumped without being seen. The body could then have been washed into Kholo Creek by the floodwaters and came to rest where it was found but that doesn't seem to be what QPS are saying. :banghead:

Each report seems to have used different wording...

June 14, 2012

Court documents record he is charged with Allison's murder "at or about the 19th of April 2012" at their home address.

The charge for interfering with a corpse is registered at Kholo Creek in the suburb of Mount Crosby, also "at or about the 19th of April 2012".

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/nation/gerard-baden-clay-has-appeared-in-court-charged-with-murder-of-his-wife-allison/story-e6frg6nf-1226395232344

-----------------------------------------
June 27, 2012

He has also been charged with interfering with her body, by moving her to the creek where she was found

http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/queensland/taking-the-fifth-the-case-against-alleged-wifekiller-gerard-badenclay-20120626-210bz.html#ixzz231yufm6I

marlywings
08-09-2012, 03:43 AM
Then there's Courier Mail report which states...

June 22, 2012

Mr Baden-Clay has been charged with murdering his wife Allison, 43, at their Brookfield home on April 20 and interfering with her corpse at Kholo Creek on the same night.

http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/security-sweep-ahead-of-gerard-baden-clay-bail-hearing/story-e6freon6-1226405120615

Keentoknow
08-09-2012, 04:06 AM
If Allisons body had been dumped under the bridge, the evidence would be in the soil that was under her body.
Bodily fluids, decay would have seeped into the area directly beneath her, so I imagine forensics would be able to determine when her body was either put there as opposed to washed down.


All MOO.

There had been a lot of soil removed from under the bridge in places.

possumheart
08-09-2012, 04:11 AM
There had been a lot of soil removed from under the bridge in places.

That was my observation too.

Keentoknow
08-09-2012, 04:27 AM
That was my observation too.


The same samples should match his clothing and carpet in the car.

Thats why I am not concerned about old blood, new blood in the car from previous use. Many other kinds of samples will overide this.

Tishy
08-09-2012, 04:31 AM
It must have been very unsettling to have been there, KTK, Poss, Indromum and all who have been brave enough. Thank you to you all and for the flowers on our behalves, from those of us who aren't or can't. Xxx

Keentoknow
08-09-2012, 04:38 AM
It must have been very unsettling to have been there, KTK, Poss, Indromum and all who have been brave enough. Thank you to you all and for the flowers on our behalves, from those of us who aren't or can't. Xxx

I could not go under the bridge.....I sent my husband...I am a woooooosey.

I will always remember placing the cross there ( with permission).
Just we opened the car door it was announced that he had been charged. How good was that?

possumheart
08-09-2012, 04:43 AM
It must have been very unsettling to have been there, KTK, Poss, Indromum and all who have been brave enough. Thank you to you all and for the flowers on our behalves, from those of us who aren't or can't. Xxx

I was glad to be able to tell her how sorry I am. And so pleased to see the flowers and know their story. Like a group of people holding hands in the ether.

Thinking
08-09-2012, 04:48 AM
The same samples should match his clothing and carpet in the car.

Thats why I am not concerned about old blood, new blood in the car from previous use. Many other kinds of samples will overide this.

Nothing has ever been mentioned about his clothing has it - it would be very interesting to know what he did with it.

Keentoknow
08-09-2012, 04:53 AM
Nothing has ever been mentioned about his clothing has it - it would be very interesting to know what he did with it.

Would also be interesting to see what happened to her clothing that she was wearing at the hairdressers.

Would be interesting to see what the tests revealed on all the drain pipes in the house as well.

ellou
08-09-2012, 07:27 AM
Consider for a moment the evidence so far is weak. He might be guilty of a lot of things and is certainly accused of just about anything in this forum, but, he is on remand and is not convicted of a crime yet. What is the behavior anyone one in jail that really should not be there?

So what has not been offered up from GBC side of the story is a plausible excuse for who did it. Put yourself in his place, would you be screaming for whoever did it to flush them out?

What sort of turn up would it be to find that NBC is the one and was at the house to follow up on being called bwanna or something or was accused of covering up affair, and GBC won't dob him. Part of knowing someone is guilty is knowing that no one else did it. Possibilities are still there.

I so get what you are saying,What if.....?So often I have had similar thoughts too yours.I have tried too place myself in his shoes.....Want Dadda too take notice ,....Stand up, sit down, don't cry,blah, blah ,blah....What a nightmare,for a little boy ,that just wants aprroval.....
I do believe ,he did it,....although,...for some strange reason, I feel sorry for him...
I think he never got Dadda's approval..........Never got noticed,he loved his Dad ,looked up to him,maybe just wanted too be ,just like him.

ellou
08-09-2012, 07:46 AM
[QUOTE=Makara;8244274]I agree BigT. IMO the bomb scare had nothing at all to do with GBC. The Sica and bikie trials had the potential to attract some nut job wanting attention.



It does sound that way Possum. Perhaps the investigators have found evidence that Allison was actually dumped under the bridge as opposed to being washed down by floodwaters.

Possum, you've been to where Allison was found, do you think there is any possibility whatsoever for someone to conceal their car there and dump Allison's body where it was found? Let's say for example that this was actually how it happened and forget all other scenarios, how difficult would it be and what would be the physical aftermath on the perp? Firstly they would have to be reasonably fit IMO. From the photos I've seen of where Allison was found, the perp would more than likely have sustained scratches from foliage, had muddy shoes and clothing and could possibly have been bitten by insects etc. Maybe even a caterpillar or two. :floorlaugh: Mud and flora would have then been transferred into his vehicle. Could one person have disposed of Allison where she was found

LauraMars
08-09-2012, 08:10 AM
I can't feel any sympathy for him. I do feel he killed Allison, but I believe he knew what he was doing, and may well have planned it somewhat. He certainly knew what he'd done after the fact (IMO), yet he can't/won't own up to it.

I do think it's likely that Big Daddy was involved, at least after the fact. I think Mama would know at least some of it also. So no, can't feel sorry for any of them. I think they've all acted in such a despicable way, they make me feel repulsed.

It's weird, because I think I can sort of feel sorry for some criminals, even if the crimes are horrendous, but with this one, the deception and cover up, the refusal to help, or talk, takes all of that away for me.

I do think it's quite possible he has a sociopathic personality, in which case he was either born that way, or made/raised that way, but they still know what they do, they just don't care. I can't feel sorry for him at all.

MOO

LollyPop
08-09-2012, 08:11 AM
It must have been very unsettling to have been there, KTK, Poss, Indromum and all who have been brave enough. Thank you to you all and for the flowers on our behalves, from those of us who aren't or can't. Xxx

Agreed Tishy. I could drive that way to Ipswich but don't want to cross the bridge. And I lived in Karana Downs as a kid so am very familiar with that area and it's always been a kind of eerie place. Isolated and dark.

LauraMars
08-09-2012, 08:13 AM
As for OW, maybe she was just totally naive, but seriously, if your family was acting like that, the awful way they did, and still do, then why on earth would you be supporting them?

Maybe she doesn't support him/them since the bail hearing though.

MOO

LollyPop
08-09-2012, 08:15 AM
As for OW, maybe she was just totally naive, but seriously, if your family was acting like that, the awful way they did, and still do, then why on earth would you be supporting them?

MOO

Maybe cause OW has lived with their behavior all her life, therefore doesn't see it as awful etc. just a thought. But yes, I think naive and trying to do the right thing by standing by her brother. IMOO

ellou
08-09-2012, 08:17 AM
I can't feel any sympathy for him. I do feel he killed Allison, but I believe he knew what he was doing, and may well have planned it somewhat. He certainly knew what he'd done after the fact (IMO), yet he can't/won't own up to it.

I do think it's likely that Big Daddy was involved, at least after the fact. I think Mama would know at least some of it also. So no, can't feel sorry for any of them. I think they've all acted in such a despicable way, they make me feel repulsed.

It's weird, because I think I can sort of feel sorry for some criminals, even if the crimes are horrendous, but with this one, the deception and cover up, the refusal to help, or talk, takes all of that away for me.

I do think it's quite possible he has a sociopathic personality, in which case he was either born that way, or made that way, but they still know what they do, they just don't care. I can't feel sorry for him at all.

MOO

Thankyou for your thoughts,I'm so confused,...I just ...don't get it ...

ellou
08-09-2012, 08:23 AM
Thankyou for your thoughts,I'm so confused,...I just ...don't get it ...

Hey,I think he killed Allison too....I'm sure he is guilty,just my opinion............
Still can't make any sence of it all.

LauraMars
08-09-2012, 08:29 AM
Ellou, I don't think anyone gets it. I'm not saying you're wrong for feeling sorry for him, not at all. Sorry if I implied that.

Maybe you just have a bigger heart than me when it comes to this?

I just feel he is probably as close to evil as they come.

ellou
08-09-2012, 08:29 AM
Sorry if I am a little out of the loop......Who is the oldest ?Olivia or Gerad ?

LauraMars
08-09-2012, 08:31 AM
Gerard is older than Olivia I think, not sure where the other brother fits in.

ellou
08-09-2012, 08:39 AM
Ellou, I don't think anyone gets it. I'm not saying you're wrong for feeling sorry for him, not at all. Sorry if I implied that.

Maybe you just have a bigger heart than me when it comes to this?

I just feel he is probably as close to evil as they come.

I am confused,yet ,you....are right...Laura.!!!! I think he is guitly too...THATS A GIVEN.....
I just sometimes,try too think of things in a different way,I don't believe people are born bad....
Thankyou for your thoughts

LauraMars
08-09-2012, 08:46 AM
I'm not right Ellou, it's just my opinion.

I actually think 'bad' can be nature or nurture, and sometimes, or often, a mixture of both, so in that regard, maybe some people have no hope/chance? I don't know, it's such a hard one. Thank you for your thoughts also :)

No1 Ladies Detective
08-09-2012, 08:48 AM
Their rented house is now listed for rent with photos on realestate.cOm for anyone wanting to see. The address is withheld but you can see the photo- I was shocked to see it there since the owners said in the newspaper a few weeks ago they wouldn't rent it and would use it for training (child care). I was surprised the house was fairly ordinary and wonder if it is the scene of the crime. It is so sad thinking about the girls and how it was their family home for six years. Good news is they are back at Brookfield school as Allison's parents have moved closer to it. Now the girls at least have some stability and can keep their school and friendships there.

Mystique75
08-09-2012, 09:05 AM
I thought it would be interesting to see the photos of the house, but it just made me feel incredibly sad :(

Thanks for the info, though. :)

whitechapel
08-09-2012, 09:25 AM
Their rented house is now listed for rent with photos on realestate.cOm for anyone wanting to see.

Thank you.
Is this the property?
http://www.realestate.com.au/property-house-qld-brookfield-408376583

possumheart
08-09-2012, 09:25 AM
Hi Doctor I see you. Just after a quick opinion of how adrenal activity affects vitals and how this may translate to postmortem assessment

possumheart
08-09-2012, 09:27 AM
Thank you.
Is this the property?
http://www.realestate.com.au/property-house-qld-brookfield-408376583

Yep : )

BigT
08-09-2012, 09:30 AM
Who rings their father on the night they kill the wife / daughter in law? There is something to discover here. if I rang my Dad he might say I will help you, stay put, and then ring the police.

ellou
08-09-2012, 09:37 AM
I'm not right Ellou, it's just my opinion.

I actually think 'bad' can be nature or nurture, and sometimes, or often, a mixture of both, so in that regard, maybe some people have no hope/chance? I don't know, it's such a hard one. Thank you for your thoughts also :)

You are right with that one!!!!!I am of the belief,some people just don't get that chance in life..Not all of us get too hear,how wonderful we are,hearing some say I love you everyday.I was very blessed with that one......

ollijack
08-09-2012, 09:44 AM
Oh my goodness. That house makes me feel sick for some reason.

possumheart
08-09-2012, 09:51 AM
Oh my goodness. That house makes me feel sick for some reason.

:sick:

Bayside
08-09-2012, 09:57 AM
Yep : )

The house is still really dirty, the shower screen is thick with scum and windows and curtains are filthy. You would think the landlords would at least get it cleaned from top to bottom esp considering what happened there.

I wouldnt rent it for $20 a week but that sort of thing creeps me out.

Berry
08-09-2012, 10:09 AM
The house is still really dirty, the shower screen is thick with scum and windows and curtains are filthy. You would think the landlords would at least get it cleaned from top to bottom esp considering what happened there.

I wouldnt rent it for $20 a week but that sort of thing creeps me out.

Mmmmm agree, also in the kitchen, there is a slight side view of a fridge and hand towel in place.....very weird.

No children items left there though...wonder where the BCs dumped them>>>

Bayside
08-09-2012, 10:31 AM
Mmmmm agree, also in the kitchen, there is a slight side view of a fridge and hand towel in place.....very weird.

No children items left there though...wonder where the BCs dumped them>>>

I feel sad for Allison that her home is on display like that, I am sure she would only want her home seen at its vest.

So damn sad... He didnt need to do it the greedy sob ruined all their lives for his selfish f greed.

marlywings
08-09-2012, 10:36 AM
The house is still really dirty, the shower screen is thick with scum and windows and curtains are filthy. You would think the landlords would at least get it cleaned from top to bottom esp considering what happened there.

I wouldnt rent it for $20 a week but that sort of thing creeps me out.

Yes I agree...you'd think he'd hire a professional cleaner...what would that cost..around $200-300??. I think he'll pushing it to get anyone to rent it...not only because it needs cleaning but it's not even four months since Allison was killed there.

marlywings
08-09-2012, 10:38 AM
Mmmmm agree, also in the kitchen, there is a slight side view of a fridge and hand towel in place.....very weird.

No children items left there though...wonder where the BCs dumped them>>>

The owner may have notified the Dickies to get the children's things if they'd been left there by the BC's.

marlywings
08-09-2012, 10:42 AM
It's a horrible thought but in image10 of the bathroom...there's a bar there for a shower curtain but no curtain on it. Could he have used that to suffocate her with??

Curiousasacat
08-09-2012, 12:05 PM
Thank you.
Is this the property?
http://www.realestate.com.au/property-house-qld-brookfield-408376583


Hi guys,
Have been away and have just caught up with reading.Nice to see some great posts still being written.

Now this link has blown me away!! I can't believe they are renting this house out. Can you imagine moving in there. The house is not what I expected.
There is a bathtub in the very small bathroom,would this be the ensuite?
The other bathroom is shower only by the looks of it. Interesting to note that the carpets haven't been replaced so I guess there was no "mess" made on them.
Makes me kind of sick seeing the photos as my imagination has gone into overdrive.

Maigret
08-09-2012, 04:26 PM
Hi guys,
Have been away and have just caught up with reading.Nice to see some great posts still being written.

Now this link has blown me away!! I can't believe they are renting this house out. Can you imagine moving in there. The house is not what I expected.
There is a bathtub in the very small bathroom,would this be the ensuite?
The other bathroom is shower only by the looks of it. Interesting to note that the carpets haven't been replaced so I guess there was no "mess" made on them.
Makes me kind of sick seeing the photos as my imagination has gone into overdrive.

The ensuite is the bathroom with the shower screen - you can see it in the picture of the main bedroom - peach curtains
This makes me very sad - how could anyone live there - I can't help but think how happy Allison probably was when they moved in each of the girls to have their own room :(

DrWatson
08-09-2012, 05:42 PM
Hi Doctor I see you. Just after a quick opinion of how adrenal activity affects vitals and how this may translate to postmortem assessment

Morning Possum - just saw your question. Was out last night.

Adrenal activity would mainly centre around the secretion of adrenaline, with some noradrenaline as well. I'm sure if GBC was guilty, then his adrenals would have been working overtime.

However, although I'm not an endocrinologist, I don't think there is any lasting effect of adrenaline.

If Allison was murdered relatively slowly, such as by strangulation or suffocation, or a screaming fight before a fatal blow, her adrenals would have been in full "fight-or-flight" mode, with massive adrenaline release, but adrenaline is a very rapid-acting and short-acting hormone. However, as death ensues, I don't think the adrenaline hangs around - some increase may be detectable in the levels, but nowhere near what was actually secreted.. And I'm not aware of any post-mortem changes to the physical structure of organs that would be detectable either. One of the effects of adrenaline is vasoconstriction - the blood vessels (mainly on the arterial side of the circulation) constrict, which in turn puts the blood pressure up (by increasing peripheral resistance to flow.)

However, as death ensues, everything relaxes, including the blood vessels, and vasodilatation occurs - which is the reason the blood can then pool at the body's lowest point relative to gravity. This causes the discolouration seen on the body, known as post mortem lividity, or livor mortis.

So I wouldn't think that any structural effects of the adrenaline surge would be visible in the tissues post mortem.

As for adrenaline levels in the blood and other fluids - they can be measured, but apart from certain causes of death (eg hypothermia which tends to preserve the status quo of physiology), I'm not aware of any significant correlation that would indicate the CAUSE of death. Adrenaline and noradrenaline levels can be measure in the blood, the cerebrospinal fluid (CSF), and in the vitreous compartment of the eye.

Of course, the adrenaline levels would be higher in violent death situations, especially those in which the victim is aware of the impending death - eg strangulation, suffocation, etc. In sudden violent death by surprise - eg the gunshot to the back of the head - adrenaline levels wouldn't necessarily be raised. Likewise, if the victim had been drugged, or heavily sedated, then death may occur relatively peacefully with little or no adrenaline release.

Mountain Misst
08-09-2012, 06:07 PM
Gerard is older than Olivia I think, not sure where the other brother fits in.

Gerard born 1970; Olivia 1973; Adam 1975 (as per peerage)

ozazure
08-09-2012, 06:10 PM
I wouldn't rent it either, even if I wasn't a big sook - it's not uncommon for the crime scene to be visited and videotaped if there is a confession or deal made with the perp. Until the matter is settled completely your life could be turned upside down at any time.

It shows how upscale the area must be that they can (attempt to) command $460 a week for a colour scheme screaming late 80's and pretty scruffy looking overall. I am surprised Mr Real Estate wasn't living somewhere with hardwood floors and the theatre room he postulated fathers are expected to provide these days.

linette
08-09-2012, 06:20 PM
Thank you.
Is this the property?
http://www.realestate.com.au/property-house-qld-brookfield-408376583

I'm wondering if they are old pics... you know how sometimes real estates use their standard pics for any time the house is leased? Looks like a fridge in the kitchen.
Very eerie to think this is where it could have happened.

When we rented our current house, the pics on the net were when it had just been built, yet it was 4 yrs old when we moved here and had been rented out 4 times before.

Liadan
08-09-2012, 06:25 PM
Thank you.
Is this the property?
http://www.realestate.com.au/property-house-qld-brookfield-408376583


Gosh the house needs new floor covering and a good coat of paint. That would really gussy it up. But I guess the pics put paid to the rumours of holes in the walls - they could have been fixed but considering the state of the house - it doesn't look like the landlord was too active in getting it ready for rental. No curtains in some of the rooms - interesting it would enable sound to carry more.

linette
08-09-2012, 06:31 PM
Gosh the house needs new floor covering and a good coat of paint. That would really gussy it up. But I guess the pics put paid to the rumours of holes in the walls - they could have been fixed but considering the state of the house - it doesn't look like the landlord was too active in getting it ready for rental. No curtains in some of the rooms - interesting it would enable sound to carry more.

Sometimes you have to supply your own curtains in some rooms though. Maybe they had their own? As I've mentioned, these pics could be old ones, not taken since GBC moved out. I know sometimes pics on the net are nothing like the house when it is advertised. Just a thought though, they could be recent pics after all. I know on some photos they have the date on them and it can go back 3 or 4 years.

But I agree, it looks kind of grubby in these pics, regardless of what may have happened there.

linette
08-09-2012, 06:35 PM
Yes I agree...you'd think he'd hire a professional cleaner...what would that cost..around $200-300??. I think he'll pushing it to get anyone to rent it...not only because it needs cleaning but it's not even four months since Allison was killed there.

A simple bond clean can be up to $2000... and still not done well. Maybe the BC's didn't put much effort into cleaning it, just got the hell out of there... fast. Still, it is then up to the landlord to correct everything before some other poor person moves in.

enthralled
08-09-2012, 06:50 PM
I do recall reading or hearing in the media, someone who knew Allison saying she was "domestically challenged".
When bogged down depression it can be very hard to motivate yourself to do the housework. You need the love and support of your partner to help you through these difficult times. Out wining and dining your "bit of fluff" is not being supportive.
After seeing the pics of that house, I too would be domestically challenged and very depressed that after many many years of hard work this is where I had to live while my so called husband was out trying to impress and act like he was mr society.

From all I have read and heard Allison was a great mother and a lovely lady and her and her daughters did not deserve to have suffered like they have.

linette
08-09-2012, 07:53 PM
I do recall reading or hearing in the media, someone who knew Allison saying she was "domestically challenged".
When bogged down depression it can be very hard to motivate yourself to do the housework. You need the love and support of your partner to help you through these difficult times. Out wining and dining your "bit of fluff" is not being supportive.
After seeing the pics of that house, I too would be domestically challenged and very depressed that after many many years of hard work this is where I had to live while my so called husband was out trying to impress and act like he was mr society.

From all I have read and heard Allison was a great mother and a lovely lady and her and her daughters did not deserve to have suffered like they have.

Yes, domestically challenged... that could be me sometimes. Totally understandable. I like to keep my place clean and tidy... but when I'm thrown by something that's really upsetting etc I find it hard to function and that's when the housework might suffer. I'd say in Allison's case, yes, that would be enough not to do as much.
BUT having said all of that, to each their own really. There's a difference between a dirty house and an untidy one.
Haha, how many of us would fall into the domestically challenged category at times? I know I would. {esp since finding websleuths,:floorlaugh:}

Mystique75
08-09-2012, 08:03 PM
Domestically challenged is right, there's barely enough bench space in that kitchen for two people, let alone five!

I thought that too, Linette, that they may be old photos. In my experience, current photos of a rental property are the exception, rather than the rule.

But that leaves the question - why use such photos which show the place as it is? If they were old photos, wouldn't they be good ones? Looks to me like a rush job, rent it before the committal hearing, get that lease signed before the particulars are made public, while they can still deny anything horrible happened there.

Sorry if that sounds cynical, but I am a long time renter lol so I'm kinda qualified to make assumptions. Just in case though, IMO.

linette
08-09-2012, 08:09 PM
Domestically challenged is right, there's barely enough bench space in that kitchen for two people, let alone five!

I thought that too, Linette, that they may be old photos. In my experience, current photos of a rental property are the exception, rather than the rule.

But that leaves the question - why use such photos which show the place as it is? If they were old photos, wouldn't they be good ones? Looks to me like a rush job, rent it before the committal hearing, get that lease signed before the particulars are made public, while they can still deny anything horrible happened there.

Sorry if that sounds cynical, but I am a long time renter lol so I'm kinda qualified to make assumptions. Just in case though, IMO.
You're right. Wouldn't they pick good pics? Unless it has always been shabby looking, maybe this is as good as it gets.
About the kitchen space, that's exactly what I thought. Not much room there, is there? Imagine trying to entertain people? {I assume because GBC was so 'great' that maybe they did this?}
One of my daughters has this problem in their house, hardly any bench space at all... while my other girl has so much that she doesn't know what to do with it all.

enthralled
08-09-2012, 08:13 PM
Yes, domestically challenged... that could be me sometimes. Totally understandable. I like to keep my place clean and tidy... but when I'm thrown by something that's really upsetting etc I find it hard to function and that's when the housework might suffer. I'd say in Allison's case, yes, that would be enough not to do as much.
BUT having said all of that, to each their own really. There's a difference between a dirty house and an untidy one.
Haha, how many of us would fall into the domestically challenged category at times? I know I would. {esp since finding websleuths,:floorlaugh:}

Oh linette, we sounds like peas in a pod :floorlaugh:

I too like a clean house but cant say that happens all the time and as someone who has suffered from depression, I know how trying to motivate yourself in those times is very very difficult and like fighting a losing battle.

Your comment about there being a difference between and dirty house and a clean one is one that my mother always says and I too believe.

As for webslueths, well it has sure corrupted me and it is does at times take priority over housework, like right now lol

Indromum
08-09-2012, 08:15 PM
Morning Possum - just saw your question. Was out last night.

Adrenal activity would mainly centre around the secretion of adrenaline, with some noradrenaline as well. I'm sure if GBC was guilty, then his adrenals would have been working overtime.

However, although I'm not an endocrinologist, I don't think there is any lasting effect of adrenaline.

If Allison was murdered relatively slowly, such as by strangulation or suffocation, or a screaming fight before a fatal blow, her adrenals would have been in full "fight-or-flight" mode, with massive adrenaline release, but adrenaline is a very rapid-acting and short-acting hormone. However, as death ensues, I don't think the adrenaline hangs around - some increase may be detectable in the levels, but nowhere near what was actually secreted.. And I'm not aware of any post-mortem changes to the physical structure of organs that would be detectable either. One of the effects of adrenaline is vasoconstriction - the blood vessels (mainly on the arterial side of the circulation) constrict, which in turn puts the blood pressure up (by increasing peripheral resistance to flow.)

However, as death ensues, everything relaxes, including the blood vessels, and vasodilatation occurs - which is the reason the blood can then pool at the body's lowest point relative to gravity. This causes the discolouration seen on the body, known as post mortem lividity, or livor mortis.

So I wouldn't think that any structural effects of the adrenaline surge would be visible in the tissues post mortem.

As for adrenaline levels in the blood and other fluids - they can be measured, but apart from certain causes of death (eg hypothermia which tends to preserve the status quo of physiology), I'm not aware of any significant correlation that would indicate the CAUSE of death. Adrenaline and noradrenaline levels can be measure in the blood, the cerebrospinal fluid (CSF), and in the vitreous compartment of the eye.

Of course, the adrenaline levels would be higher in violent death situations, especially those in which the victim is aware of the impending death - eg strangulation, suffocation, etc. In sudden violent death by surprise - eg the gunshot to the back of the head - adrenaline levels wouldn't necessarily be raised. Likewise, if the victim had been drugged, or heavily sedated, then death may occur relatively peacefully with little or no adrenaline release.
I work for an Endo.....I'll ask him.

alioop
08-09-2012, 08:19 PM
I see on the real estate site that the house is open for inspection today from 4.30 to 4.40. Is anyone available to have a look and report back to us. At least we would then know if the photos are current or old. I tend to think they are current as I think I read somewhere that the BC's had lived there for maybe 6 years. I remember thinking at the time that the youngest girl would have lived there her whole life.

linette
08-09-2012, 08:34 PM
I see on the real estate site that the house is open for inspection today from 4.30 to 4.40. Is anyone available to have a look and report back to us. At least we would then know if the photos are current or old. I tend to think they are current as I think I read somewhere that the BC's had lived there for maybe 6 years. I remember thinking at the time that the youngest girl would have lived there her whole life.

So the inspection is only for 10 mins?

Keentoknow
08-09-2012, 08:34 PM
I wouldn't rent it either, even if I wasn't a big sook - it's not uncommon for the crime scene to be visited and videotaped if there is a confession or deal made with the perp. Until the matter is settled completely your life could be turned upside down at any time.

It shows how upscale the area must be that they can (attempt to) command $460 a week for a colour scheme screaming late 80's and pretty scruffy looking overall. I am surprised Mr Real Estate wasn't living somewhere with hardwood floors and the theatre room he postulated fathers are expected to provide these days.

Like you. I am sure he would have had many other opportunities to rent something better.

STELLA85
08-09-2012, 08:34 PM
I am shocked it's to be rented out, the owners were so adamant they wouldn't do that. The place looks awful and who on earth would live in a house where a murder took place, wouldn't they have to disclose that fact? I would feel weird inspecting the place. I'd be scared it was haunted.
Those poor girls :-( My heart truly breaks for them.

linette
08-09-2012, 08:37 PM
I am shocked it's to be rented out, the owners were so adamant they wouldn't do that. The place looks awful and who on earth would live in a house where a murder took place, wouldn't they have to disclose that fact? I would feel weird inspecting the place. I'd be scared it was haunted.
Those poor girls :-( My heart truly breaks for them.

Didn't someone say something about the need to disclose things like that? I remember that from a while ago. Who knows, some poor unsuspecting person from interstate might jump on it without even knowing it's history.

linette
08-09-2012, 08:41 PM
It's a hard one though, because the person who owns the home has a right to get money through renting out his property...even though it was said the childcare would be taking it over, but I guess that isn't happening now?
What would we do if we owned a home and someone was murdered there? It could be someones income, and the rental money may be much needed. On the other hand, I totally understand nobody wanting to live there.
Maybe the owner could sue GBC for loss of rental income due to the fact no-one will want to live there. {joking, but it would be good}

LauraMars
08-09-2012, 08:46 PM
The kitchen does look tiny alright, and yes you'd think the owners/real estate would at least get the carpets cleaned.

I can understand why a lot of people would not want to live there, considering what happened, though I don't think that would really bother me. I think a home is what you make it.

I had a house for years which everyone swore was haunted, including me, my family, housemates and friends. I'm not even sure I believe in ghosts as such, though my daughter would say she would see a man (and there were no men living in my house at that time) - she described him as being like 'a man in a ghost', even at 3 yrs old, when I didn't even think she knew what a ghost was lol. So many very strange things would happen, even tenants who rented it off me later felt it. But regardless, we all felt the house had a really good vibe, and despite the many odd things that went down, I never felt scared there, quite the opposite.

possumheart
08-09-2012, 08:46 PM
I work for an Endo.....I'll ask him.

This is the only analogy I can make and sorry if it is upsetting to anyone.

Animals for human consumption are much tougher when slaughered when stressed. Therefore the stress levels at time of death are discernable by a physiological change which must be linked to the adrenals. I have also heard of dogs bursting their adrenal sacs when stress/fight situation, but don't know what the correct term is. This may be of no use in the case of forensics I suppose, but naturally I got wondering if it was relevant.

:waitasec: I was thinking that a surgeon would be aware of this but I might be barking up the wrong tree.

Thanks Indro

enthralled
08-09-2012, 08:50 PM
It's a hard one though, because the person who owns the home has a right to get money through renting out his property...even though it was said the childcare would be taking it over, but I guess that isn't happening now?
What would we do if we owned a home and someone was murdered there? It could be someones income, and the rental money may be much needed. On the other hand, I totally understand nobody wanting to live there.
Maybe the owner could sue GBC for loss of rental income due to the fact no-one will want to live there. {joking, but it would be good}

I think these would be current pics seeing as the family lived there for 6 years.
I do understand the owners advertising it again as it is a business situation for them. I wish I could find where the owner talks about the property because I thought they were "thinking" about their options of re-renting it or using it as a training facility.
What does surprise me though is that due to the houses history, I would have expected the owners to definitely spruce it up because I think right now they need to pull out all stops so that viewers might definitely be interested in renting it. I wouldnt be taking any chances of turning people off it.

alioop
08-09-2012, 08:53 PM
So the inspection is only for 10 mins?

Yes. That seems not to be unusual for rental these days. I went to a couple of rental open for inspections a few weeks ago in Brisbane and about 20 people were waiting outside, then the agent turned up and everyone went through. It was very quick. I think the agent actually stays longer than 10 minutes but just advertises the small window for inspection so people turn up early.

Keentoknow
08-09-2012, 08:58 PM
This is the only analogy I can make and sorry if it is upsetting to anyone.

Animals for human consumption are much tougher when slaughered when stressed. Therefore the stress levels at time of death are discernable by a physiological change which must be linked to the adrenals. I have also heard of dogs bursting their adrenal sacs when stress/fight situation, but don't know what the correct term is. This may be of no use in the case of forensics I suppose, but naturally I got wondering if it was relevant.

:waitasec: I was thinking that a surgeon would be aware of this but I might be barking up the wrong tree.

Thanks Indro

There is such a thing as Adrenalin Overflow.


After being exposed to severe trauma, either witnessing it, be in it, or fighting during it, our adrenalin rush goes higher then ever before.

The longer the exposure, the higher the level of adrenalin, and the continuation of that adrenalin to be heightened after the trauma is no longer present.

http://c-ptsd.webs.com/apps/forums/topics/show/3628503-adrenalin-overflow-after-trauma-exposure

marlywings
08-09-2012, 09:05 PM
I think these would be current pics seeing as the family lived there for 6 years.
I do understand the owners advertising it again as it is a business situation for them. I wish I could find where the owner talks about the property because I thought they were "thinking" about their options of re-renting it or using it as a training facility.
What does surprise me though is that due to the houses history, I would have expected the owners to definitely spruce it up because I think right now they need to pull out all stops so that viewers might definitely be interested in renting it. I wouldnt be taking any chances of turning people off it.


July 01, 2012

They sought a periodic lease thereafter,'' said the owner, who did not want to be named. "We've just been going from week to week.

"They haven't given us a date, as of yet, and we are trying to be considerate of their circumstances.

"But I understand Mr and Mrs Baden-Clay Senior are packing up with a view to moving from the house.''

The same owners have a childcare centre next door and, when the Baden-Clays leave, the house may be used for training rooms rather than being rented out again, she said.

Asked if she had concerns about how the property would be viewed because of its connection to the tragic case, she said: "I can't say how other people will view it. Certainly, for our own purposes, we'd be very happy to utilise the space.''

http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/queensland/parents-of-accused-killer-gerard-baden-clay-empty-rented-brookfield-house/story-e6freoof-1226413239229

linette
08-09-2012, 09:13 PM
The kitchen does look tiny alright, and yes you'd think the owners/real estate would at least get the carpets cleaned.

I can understand why a lot of people would not want to live there, considering what happened, though I don't think that would really bother me. I think a home is what you make it.

I had a house for years which everyone swore was haunted, including me, my family, housemates and friends. I'm not even sure I believe in ghosts as such, though my daughter would say she would see a man - she described him as being like 'a man in a ghost', even at 3 yrs old, when I didn't even think she knew what a ghost was lol. So many very strange things would happen, even tenants who rented it off me later felt it. But regardless, we all felt it had a really good vibe, and despite the many odd things that went down, I never felt scared there, quite the opposite.

That is true, it would not bother everyone. I am also a firm believer in a home being what you make it.
I also lived in a home that I swear was haunted... I'm not even sure that I believe in that stuff either, but geez! There was one day when 3 of us all saw the same thing at the same time... a vision of a young boy who looked a lot like my then 8 year old son... who was at school at the time. We all just stared at eachother and basically said WTF !! Also, even though we didn't have fences or anything {not that it matters} but we had a total flea infestation that stopped on the would-be fenceline. Step over it, there was nothing. I guess the fleas thought there was a fence there? :floorlaugh:
There were other things like doors flying open, but hey, don't want to get off topic here. {Ummm, I think may have already, so...}

linette
08-09-2012, 09:17 PM
Yes. That seems not to be unusual for rental these days. I went to a couple of rental open for inspections a few weeks ago in Brisbane and about 20 people were waiting outside, then the agent turned up and everyone went through. It was very quick. I think the agent actually stays longer than 10 minutes but just advertises the small window for inspection so people turn up early.

Ok, I'm probably thinking of the open houses for buying a house, not rentals. I know they go for a hour or more. I guess 10 mins is long enough to look at the place and get an application form.

enthralled
08-09-2012, 09:19 PM
There is such a thing as Adrenalin Overflow.


After being exposed to severe trauma, either witnessing it, be in it, or fighting during it, our adrenalin rush goes higher then ever before.

The longer the exposure, the higher the level of adrenalin, and the continuation of that adrenalin to be heightened after the trauma is no longer present.

http://c-ptsd.webs.com/apps/forums/topics/show/3628503-adrenalin-overflow-after-trauma-exposure

After reading that link re adrenalin overflow I wonder if that could be used in gbc's defence. Did he experience something shocking in his life e.g. how old was he when they left africa?

Personally I dont think that is an excuse but you never know what lawyers will throw out there.

It was very interesting, if I understood it properly, when it said that the length of the actual stressful experience can have an effect on how long the adrenalin buildup lasts. Could that also mean that depending how long Allison and gbc were full on arguing that night (if thats how it happened) could have an effect on how much strength gbc had and for how long?(re disposing of body)

Hope this makes sense or am I completely off track?

Katie1Eighty
08-09-2012, 09:20 PM
well, considering the rent they have lost recently, perhaps they owners had no money to spend on sprucing it up. for the record i too am surprised by the shocking colour scheme of the curtins and carpet.

LauraMars
08-09-2012, 09:21 PM
No doubt most people would think of Allison and her murder at times, if they lived there and knew, but then we all do anyway, but yes, I do get why many people would find it too weird.

Should we go to the chit chat room if we want to discuss spooky things? (Are we allowed to discuss such things in the chat room Marlywings?)

LauraMars
08-09-2012, 09:25 PM
Katie, the curtains give me a horrible reminder of the dreadful bridesmaid dress I had to wear at one of my sister's wedding - salmon pink taffeta - it was late 80's, though even then I was appalled at the dress lol

marlywings
08-09-2012, 09:30 PM
No doubt most people would think of Allison and her murder at times, if they lived there and knew, but then we all do anyway, but yes, I do get why many people would find it too weird.

Should we go to the chit chat room if we want to discuss spooky things? (Are we allowed to discuss such things in the chat room Marlywings?)

The chat room would be a good idea Laura...

DrWatson
08-09-2012, 09:42 PM
There is such a thing as Adrenalin Overflow.


After being exposed to severe trauma, either witnessing it, be in it, or fighting during it, our adrenalin rush goes higher then ever before.

The longer the exposure, the higher the level of adrenalin, and the continuation of that adrenalin to be heightened after the trauma is no longer present.

http://c-ptsd.webs.com/apps/forums/topics/show/3628503-adrenalin-overflow-after-trauma-exposure

Not sure what they mean by "adrenalin overflow"....? Do they mean the normal secretion of adrenalin under stress, which boosts the adrenaline levels higher than in a relaxed, resting state? The person posting that doesn't seem to have any particular qualifications, and phrases like this one

After being exposed to severe trauma, either witnessing it, be in it, or fighting during it, our adrenalin rush goes higher then ever before.

The longer the exposure, the higher the level of adrenalin, and the continuation of that adrenalin to be heightened after the trauma is no longer present.

Acting out in anger outburst, isolating, taking your anger out on another, or doing the opposite, hiding it like it never happened, are all signs of this adrenalin overflow.

Sometimes without knowing one can reenact the trauma of the past, in the present.

are very generalised - in fact I'm not even sure what she means, especially the bit about "continuation of that adrenalin to be heightened after the trauma is no longer present".... huh?

And I think the whole bit about "without knowing one can reenact the trauma of the past in the present" is drawing a VERY long bow, IMHO. Adrenaline (to give it the English/Australian spelling) is a very short-acting hormone as I stated before. It starts to act very rapidly, both in the natural occurrence (your hackles rise, so to speak) and also when given intravenously in surgery or for something like anaphyllactic shock. It is also very SHORT acting - the effect wears off in a few minutes. If given I/V during resuscitation, for example, the heart rate increases, the BP rises, etc - but it all wears off in a few minutes and the dose may need to be repeated if the patient's own systems can't keep things going on their own.

The only way that I can think of adrenaline being involved in reenacting traumas of the past would be if the THOUGHTS of the trauma result in fresh adrenaline output. It would not be anything to do with the original adrenaline secretion.

And just re the slaughtering of animals in a stressed state is concerned, I am under the impression that the tougher meat was due to the breakdown of glycogen in the muscle due to the stress, resulting in lower levels of lactic acid which is one of the things that makes meat tender. Whether or not adrenaline is involved in the breakdown of that glycogen I'm not sure. But the point you make is a good one.

However, its relevance in the examination of a body that has been lying outdoors for 10 or 11 days is questionable....

LauraMars
08-09-2012, 10:10 PM
Doc, would the "continuation of that adrenalin to be heightened after the trauma is no longer present" be similar to eg. when one gets a huge fright, but the heart remains pounding etc for a time afterwards, even once everything is ok?

ellou
08-09-2012, 10:44 PM
As for OW, maybe she was just totally naive, but seriously, if your family was acting like that, the awful way they did, and still do, then why on earth would you be supporting them?

Maybe she doesn't support him/them since the bail hearing though.

MOO

she knows,no better....keep everyone happy...

Woof
08-09-2012, 10:48 PM
Sorry if I am a little out of the loop......Who is the oldest ?Olivia or Gerad ?

Gerard, then Olivia, then Adam.

http://olavebadenpowell.worldguiding.net/family/tree.pdf

squizzey1
08-09-2012, 10:51 PM
Didn't someone say something about the need to disclose things like that? I remember that from a while ago. Who knows, some poor unsuspecting person from interstate might jump on it without even knowing it's history.

i know real estate agents when selling or renting HAVE to disclose the fact that someone died in the house IF they know . this is a bit tricky though. can anyone say for a fact that allison died there. she may have been severely injured there and died in the yard. wouldnt want to be the agent renting it out.

DrWatson
08-09-2012, 10:52 PM
Doc, would the "continuation of that adrenalin to be heightened after the trauma is no longer present" be similar to eg. when one gets a huge fright, but the heart remains pounding etc for a time afterwards, even once everything is ok?

You may be right - it's just the way it's worded is a bit odd. But I think you may have got the point of what she is saying. Basically, she is saying that the adrenaline secretion continues after the initial stimulus has gone, the way you describe it, and I think that you're probably right.

And yes, that is true - the adrenaline does continue after the stimulus settles down. Talk to the "adrenaline junkies" who do the extreme sports - the high lasts for quite a while afterwards, although a lot of that would be due to endorphins that kick in after the initial adrenaline rush.

Thanks for clarifying what she almost certainly meant.

But I'm still somewhat doubtful as to the relevance of that when examining a body that has been exposed for 10 days or so.

Woof
08-09-2012, 10:59 PM
I am shocked it's to be rented out, the owners were so adamant they wouldn't do that. The place looks awful and who on earth would live in a house where a murder took place, wouldn't they have to disclose that fact? I would feel weird inspecting the place. I'd be scared it was haunted.
Those poor girls :-( My heart truly breaks for them.

Because it has not been proven in court that there was a murder there, I don't think they have to disclose anything. JMO.

LauraMars
08-09-2012, 11:00 PM
I have no idea doc, I just wondered, as when I've had a really bad fright, the heart seems to race for sometime afterwards, even though you know everything's OK.

I have no idea about the post mortem side of things obviously, but I imagine after ten days or so, there's only so much one can get?

I did read somewhere that Allison's organs were still intact and appeared healthy, apart from some decomposition of the brain, but not sure how accurate that is, so I'll MOO.

LauraMars
08-10-2012, 12:06 AM
Just out of interest doc, is it possible for someone to die of fright so to speak.

I don't mean in relation to this case obviously, but just wondered if that can happen. Like can a very bad scare give someone a heart attack? Silly question I suppose lol.

possumheart
08-10-2012, 12:46 AM
Just out of interest doc, is it possible for someone to die of fright so to speak.

I don't mean in relation to this case obviously, but just wondered if that can happen. Like can a very bad scare give someone a heart attack? Silly question I suppose lol.

By the looks of it DocW is up to his elbows again

BigApple
08-10-2012, 01:31 AM
I have not been on for ages, and am pages and pages behind, been busy busy with EOFY... But how dirty and old is that house, what a dump.....how sad for Allison and the girls living there while someone else was out living the high life (so they thought) and they had to live like that.....It really speaks volumes to me, that someone did not really care about anyone but himself..Just saying...

DrWatson
08-10-2012, 01:54 AM
Just out of interest doc, is it possible for someone to die of fright so to speak.

I don't mean in relation to this case obviously, but just wondered if that can happen. Like can a very bad scare give someone a heart attack? Silly question I suppose lol.

Certainly can. Rare, but happens. Especially if someone has a pre-existing problem with say coronary artery disease, hypertension, or a combination of problems.

By the looks of it DocW is up to his elbows again

Yup - elbows, shoulders, and eyebrows...! ;)

Judicious
08-10-2012, 02:05 AM
Hello fellow bloggers..I'm new to this site. I have been reading this site for a few weeks and thought it best if I register and say 'hello' :)

Mountain Misst
08-10-2012, 02:47 AM
Hello fellow bloggers..I'm new to this site. I have been reading this site for a few weeks and thought it best if I register and say 'hello' :)

Love the puddy with the earphones....... welcome!
:partyguy:

Fuskier
08-10-2012, 03:03 AM
I do recall reading or hearing in the media, someone who knew Allison saying she was "domestically challenged"...
...From all I have read and heard Allison was a great mother and a lovely lady and her and her daughters did not deserve to have suffered like they have.

IMO this is a rumour: "I heard Allison was domestically challenged". We need to be circumspect about such rumours. Who put this rumour about? Their motivation? Were they 'hostile' or a 'rival' to Allison? Were they distant and unempathetic to the pressures on a multi-tasking mother? It is easy to criticise if there is no empathy. Caring for the daily needs of three children under the age of 10 years is demanding, travelling to/from afterschool activites, part-time work, a failing marriage and money problems, etc. This sounds more like a criticism IMO. People have the right to prioritise where they expend their energy. From all accounts Allison looked after her children well. My opinion only, not fact.

Tully2
08-10-2012, 03:09 AM
Dr Watson, speaking of adrenaline, I have a friend who gets SVTs and their heart rate races for hours. What is the situation with regards to adrenaline here?

Judicious
08-10-2012, 03:09 AM
thank you Mountain Misst..still feeling my way around :)

Keentoknow
08-10-2012, 03:12 AM
By the looks of it DocW is up to his elbows again

Hi Possum regardless of what Dr said Adrenaline overflow is real and it does not discriminate during and long after the event.

I have witnessed people giving evidence and they were given adjournments because of adrenaline overflow. One was allowed a hand up statement.

Tully2
08-10-2012, 03:16 AM
Hi Possum regardless of what Dr said Adrenaline overflow is real and it does not discriminate during and long after the event.

I have witnessed people giving evidence and they were given adjournments because of adrenaline overflow. One was allowed a hand up statement.

Well do you reckon GBC would have been working off adrenaline? It can give you a lot of strength. MOO

they'll get you
08-10-2012, 03:22 AM
IMO this is a rumour: "I heard Allison was domestically challenged". We need to be circumspect about such rumours. Who put this rumour about? Their motivation? Were they 'hostile' or a 'rival' to Allison? Were they distant and unempathetic to the pressures on a multi-tasking mother? It is easy to criticise if there is no empathy. Caring for the daily needs of three children under the age of 10 years is demanding, travelling to/from afterschool activites, part-time work, a failing marriage and money problems, etc. This sounds more like a criticism IMO. People have the right to prioritise where they expend their energy. From all accounts Allison looked after her children well. My opinion only, not fact.

I can only imagine the enviornment Allison was living in before her murder. That would have given anyone some sort of depression to cause a feeling of helplessness. How many 'hats' did this little sweetheart have to wear? Corporate, mummy, wife and wonderwife to a 5 timing pr*ck ! OMG we all want justice for you girl !! Such a reminder to all of us to speak to family, friends or doctor before this can happen again.

LauraMars
08-10-2012, 03:25 AM
Dr Watson, speaking of adrenaline, I have a friend who gets SVTs and their heart rate races for hours. What is the situation with regards to adrenaline here?

Hi Tully2, what's an SVT?

Keentoknow
08-10-2012, 03:31 AM
Well do you reckon GBC would have been working off adrenaline? It can give you a lot of strength. MOO

He would have been like a spider on Mogadon....all over the place.

Mountain Misst
08-10-2012, 03:34 AM
Hi Possum regardless of what Dr said Adrenaline overflow is real and it does not discriminate during and long after the event.

I have witnessed people giving evidence and they were given adjournments because of adrenaline overflow. One was allowed a hand up statement.

I went looking for what a "hand up statement" was and came across this info, which I think is useful information to read in relation to committal mentions, hearings and the court procedures as we approach Sept 3... Clarifies some of the mumbo jumbo for me.

http://www.gnl.com.au/index.php?action=view&pid=&view=3708

LauraMars
08-10-2012, 03:36 AM
OK, Tully has gone, so I just googled SVT - Supraventricular tachycardia (SVT) I gather, but reading the spiel on it, way over my head lol

EllaN
08-10-2012, 03:37 AM
I have not been on for ages, and am pages and pages behind, been busy busy with EOFY... But how dirty and old is that house, what a dump.....how sad for Allison and the girls living there while someone else was out living the high life (so they thought) and they had to live like that.....It really speaks volumes to me, that someone did not really care about anyone but himself..Just saying...


I agree what a dump. He spent money on his mistresses and Allison and the kids had to live in that house. The house reminds me of the student accommodation I used to share in Auchenflower in the 90's.

Keentoknow
08-10-2012, 03:39 AM
I went looking for what a "hand up statement" was and found what I think is useful information to read in relation to committal hearings and mentions and the like as we approach Sept 3... Clarifies some of the mumbo jumbo for me.
http://www.gnl.com.au/index.php?action=view&pid=&view=3708

Thank you for the link. Very handy for everyone.

Tully2
08-10-2012, 03:40 AM
Hi Tully2, what's an SVT?

Really fast heartbeat or Supraventricular tachycardia

I just know the name because my friend has it

Tully2
08-10-2012, 03:50 AM
OK, Tully has gone, so I just googled SVT - Supraventricular tachycardia (SVT) I gather, but reading the spiel on it, way over my head lol

I want the doc to explain the adrenaline side of things and my friend's SVT - would adrenaline be surging through her?

Was GBC full of it?

Liadan
08-10-2012, 03:52 AM
He would have been like a spider on Mogadon....all over the place.


God love ya KTK - I somehow read this as 'spiderman' on Mogadon - and loved it when I got the idea of mad a spidey guy all over the shop - his spider senses going ape shyte not just tingling!:floorlaugh::floorlaugh::floorlaugh:

they'll get you
08-10-2012, 03:58 AM
I agree what a dump. He spent money on his mistresses and Allison and the kids had to live in that house. The house reminds me of the student accommodation I used to share in Auchenflower in the 90's.

Yes, it's not a 'home' anymore, it's empty. Allison and the children made it a home & they have gone. They shared Christmas, birthdays, homework and many wonderful memories. I wonder how many nights Allison and the girls were alone in their home, I wonder.....
I imagine she made it as pretty with what she had, remember the sunflower picture she had hanging? I wonder what happened to that picture? Hopefully Pashpap Incorporated didn't sell it at the garage sale.....or made it's way to the tip.

Mountain Misst
08-10-2012, 04:03 AM
Further to my enquiry into the court proceedings, I want to share something which has caused me to worry and may have done to others about the charge of the interference with the body at Kholo Creek (versus Little Ugly Creek or elsewhere). What if they have the wrong place? I have found that the charge can be modified:

"If a magistrate commits an accused person for trial, the accused person must enter into a fresh bail undertaking and the matter is committed to the appropriate higher court. Some months later, an “indictment” is presented to the higher court. This is simply a document containing the charges to be heard by the higher court (usually the original charges brought by the police, unless modified following the committal).

http://www.gnl.com.au/index.php?action=view&pid=&view=3708

LauraMars
08-10-2012, 04:06 AM
While the house looks very dated, I think it's impossible to tell what kind of 'housekeeper' Allison was from a few pics, and I don't think it matters. The house may have looked lovely with all their 'stuff' in it. When people move out of a home, there is usually a fair bit of a mess after all the packing and moving, especially on the carpets - I just think they weren't cleaned properly before those pics were taken (whenever that was)

I'm sure Enthralled didn't mean any disrespect with the 'domestically challenged' thing, though I have never read that anywhere, certainly not in any media reports. There were hints at depression being a factor, but again, that is rumour as far as we know.

Personally, I'd rather live in a character filled old Queenslander any day, rather than a modern tiny box, but then again, I'm the sort of weirdo that prefers a camping holiday to a 5 star hotel lol :)

Liadan
08-10-2012, 04:07 AM
Honestly how do you keep a dump like that 'looking good'. That is an oxymoron if I ever came across one. You can't make a silk purse from a sow's ear - so I doubt any woman could turn that house into a majestic abode. No one is going to spend money on a rental - so new fixtures and are out of the question and the money situation was non-existant for Allison so I doubt she could have spent money on nice things that made the house look good. She would have just done her best to put up and shut up!!!!! Poor girl!

Tully2
08-10-2012, 04:08 AM
IMO this is a rumour: "I heard Allison was domestically challenged". We need to be circumspect about such rumours. Who put this rumour about? Their motivation? Were they 'hostile' or a 'rival' to Allison? Were they distant and unempathetic to the pressures on a multi-tasking mother? It is easy to criticise if there is no empathy. Caring for the daily needs of three children under the age of 10 years is demanding, travelling to/from afterschool activites, part-time work, a failing marriage and money problems, etc. This sounds more like a criticism IMO. People have the right to prioritise where they expend their energy. From all accounts Allison looked after her children well. My opinion only, not fact.

I agree. Us women get a bad rap. MOO

LauraMars
08-10-2012, 04:23 AM
Maybe Allison didn't place so much importance on the material things? Maybe that's all she felt they could afford - if they're charging $460 now, it probably wasn't much less 6 months ago? Maybe she felt they had no choice, maybe she was too stressed to care?

Who knows?

If she'd been living in a palace, chances are he still would have been rooting someone else, if not many others. If they'd been renting a gorgoeus house that they couldn't afford, he still might have killed her. I don't know, at the end of the day, I just don't see how the house thing is that relevant to what happened to her

Keentoknow
08-10-2012, 04:26 AM
Honestly how do you keep a dump like that 'looking good'. That is an oxymoron if I ever came across one. You can't make a silk purse from a sow's ear - so I doubt any woman could turn that house into a majestic abode. No one is going to spend money on a rental - so new fixtures and are out of the question and the money situation was non-existant for Allison so I doubt she could have spent money on nice things that made the house look good. She would have just done her best to put up and shut up!!!!! Poor girl!

I'm sure that her stress would have been impossible to measure up.

All she would have owned was his washing.

they'll get you
08-10-2012, 04:28 AM
Maybe Allison didn't place so much importance on the material things? Maybe that's all she felt they could afford - if they're charging $460 now, it probably wasn't much less 6 months ago? Maybe she felt they had no choice, maybe she was too stressed to care?

Who knows?

If she'd been living in a palace, chances are he still would have been rooting someone else, if not many others. If they'd been renting a gorgoeus house that they couldn't afford, he still might have killed her. I don't know, at the end of the day, I just don't see how the house thing is that relevant to what happened to her

:what: Say it like it is ! A rootathon :floorlaugh::floorlaugh:

DrWatson
08-10-2012, 04:43 AM
I want the doc to explain the adrenaline side of things and my friend's SVT - would adrenaline be surging through her?

Was GBC full of it?

Hi again - sorry for the delay.

SVT (very fast heart rate, triggered from the atria, the "upper" chambers): adrenaline would exacerbate it, or bring it on if it not present, sometimes. But it is mainly an exacerbation rather than a cause. Most cases of SVT are due to things such as hyperthyroidism, aberrant conduction pathways in the electrical conducting system of the heart, and various other causes -probably enough potential causes to fill half a page in a textbook ;)

But yes, adrenaline would exacerbate the problem.

And KTK - what you are calling "adrenaline overflow" isn't really a medical entity as such. What you're describing is most likely acute anxiety, which in turn would be tied in with adrenaline secretion, either as a partial cause or an effect of the anxiety. But the stress response that we're all familiar with consists of more than just adrenaline. There are other hormones involved (part of a group called catecholamines) and including thyroid hormone and corticosteroids. Also acute changes in blood sugar levels, and numerous other physiological changes are all part of the stress response. It's not just adrenaline.

However, I think we may be drifting a wee bit off topic... ;)

Onlyone
08-10-2012, 04:44 AM
I see on the real estate site that the house is open for inspection today from 4.30 to 4.40. Is anyone available to have a look and report back to us. At least we would then know if the photos are current or old. I tend to think they are current as I think I read somewhere that the BC's had lived there for maybe 6 years. I remember thinking at the time that the youngest girl would have lived there her whole life.

Did anyone go, I thought about it but decided it would be too sad.

enthralled
08-10-2012, 04:47 AM
IMO this is a rumour: "I heard Allison was domestically challenged". We need to be circumspect about such rumours. Who put this rumour about? Their motivation? Were they 'hostile' or a 'rival' to Allison? Were they distant and unempathetic to the pressures on a multi-tasking mother? It is easy to criticise if there is no empathy. Caring for the daily needs of three children under the age of 10 years is demanding, travelling to/from afterschool activites, part-time work, a failing marriage and money problems, etc. This sounds more like a criticism IMO. People have the right to prioritise where they expend their energy. From all accounts Allison looked after her children well. My opinion only, not fact.

Fuskier I wish I could remember who it was. What I do know is that at the time they were not meaning to say anything bad or negative about Allison. They were full of praise. It came across as a pure after thought or that they didnt think it was a big deal. Besides if Allison was depressed as it has been printed in the media, domestically challenged is quite the norm.

I truly believe the person who said it was not saying it as a slight against Allison, as I did not post it to be a negative. I was only stating that it was mentioned in the media (not sure if it was print or tv)

Tully2
08-10-2012, 04:54 AM
Hi again - sorry for the delay.

SVT (very fast heart rate, triggered from the atria, the "upper" chambers): adrenaline would exacerbate it, or bring it on if it not present, sometimes. But it is mainly an exacerbation rather than a cause. Most cases of SVT are due to things such as hyperthyroidism, aberrant conduction pathways in the electrical conducting system of the heart, and various other causes -probably enough potential causes to fill half a page in a textbook ;)

But yes, adrenaline would exacerbate the problem.

And KTK - what you are calling "adrenaline overflow" isn't really a medical entity as such. What you're describing is most likely acute anxiety, which in turn would be tied in with adrenaline secretion, either as a partial cause or an effect of the anxiety. But the stress response that we're all familiar with consists of more than just adrenaline. There are other hormones involved (part of a group called catecholamines) and including thyroid hormone and corticosteroids. Also acute changes in blood sugar levels, and numerous other physiological changes are all part of the stress response. It's not just adrenaline.

However, I think we may be drifting a wee bit off topic... ;)

Dr Watson, would it be possible that killing someone would produce a lot of adrenaline in a person and then that person would be working off adrenaline and not thinking straight? Does adrenaline give you extra strength that you wouldn't have usually?

ellou
08-10-2012, 05:16 AM
Hello fellow bloggers..I'm new to this site. I have been reading this site for a few weeks and thought it best if I register and say 'hello' :)

Welcome...

possumheart
08-10-2012, 05:16 AM
I swear I just saw footage on ABC of Campbell Newman driving away and his numberplate was MOO

ellou
08-10-2012, 05:25 AM
While the house looks very dated, I think it's impossible to tell what kind of 'housekeeper' Allison was from a few pics, and I don't think it matters. The house may have looked lovely with all their 'stuff' in it. When people move out of a home, there is usually a fair bit of a mess after all the packing and moving, especially on the carpets - I just think they weren't cleaned properly before those pics were taken (whenever that was)

I'm sure Enthralled didn't mean any disrespect with the 'domestically challenged' thing, though I have never read that anywhere, certainly not in any media reports. There were hints at depression being a factor, but again, that is rumour as far as we know.

Personally, I'd rather live in a character filled old Queenslander any day, rather than a modern tiny box, but then again, I'm the sort of weirdo that prefers a camping holiday to a 5 star hotel lol :)

Ditto...

DrWatson
08-10-2012, 05:39 AM
Dr Watson, would it be possible that killing someone would produce a lot of adrenaline in a person and then that person would be working off adrenaline and not thinking straight? Does adrenaline give you extra strength that you wouldn't have usually?

Hi Tully :)

Yes to both. Killing somebody, especially if in a rage, is highly likely to raise the levels of adrenaline. And yes, people running on adrenaline would have extra strength, speed, etc. That's the basis for a lot of the so-called performance enhancing drugs, including good old caffeine - it triggers adrenaline secretion by the adrenals.

I would think that a truly psychopathic killer - and I'm speaking generally here, not referring to anyone in particular - would be so emotionless, especially if they'd killed before, that they may get little or no extra adrenaline surge. But certainly soldiers, sportsmen, fighters of all types, tend to "run on adrenaline". Part of the training in many of those areas is directed at controlling the adrenaline surges, or timing when you want them to occur. A lot of it is not normally under conscious control, but with training, it can be brought under control.

The classic example is "shooter's shake". An experience shooter, especially military ones, will be able to control the adrenaline, the breathing rate, and even the heart rate. A novice will get awful shakes, which get worse the harder they try to steady the weapon.

Tully2
08-10-2012, 07:22 AM
Hi Tully :)

Yes to both. Killing somebody, especially if in a rage, is highly likely to raise the levels of adrenaline. And yes, people running on adrenaline would have extra strength, speed, etc. That's the basis for a lot of the so-called performance enhancing drugs, including good old caffeine - it triggers adrenaline secretion by the adrenals.

I would think that a truly psychopathic killer - and I'm speaking generally here, not referring to anyone in particular - would be so emotionless, especially if they'd killed before, that they may get little or no extra adrenaline surge. But certainly soldiers, sportsmen, fighters of all types, tend to "run on adrenaline". Part of the training in many of those areas is directed at controlling the adrenaline surges, or timing when you want them to occur. A lot of it is not normally under conscious control, but with training, it can be brought under control.

The classic example is "shooter's shake". An experience shooter, especially military ones, will be able to control the adrenaline, the breathing rate, and even the heart rate. A novice will get awful shakes, which get worse the harder they try to steady the weapon.

So adrenaline could have worked for GBC the night he killed his wife and given him extra strength for lifting her out of the car. I joined a gun club when I was younger and it gave me a healthy respect for firearms. To shoot targets, the controlled breathing stills your mind as you have to focus and I never had the shakes.
Do the effects of adrenaline last a long time? Would GBC have been awake all night after he murdered Allison, running on adrenaline?

bellgirl
08-10-2012, 07:29 AM
I was wondering if anyone knew anything about electronic surveillance?

If the Police have a warrant, can they install bugs and listening devices? Do they have to inform the occupants of what they've done? If the Police capture incriminating evidence from phone calls or conversations within the house, can they use it in a Court of Law?

I would really like to think that the QPS installed such surveillance in the senior BC home and that they could legally use any evidence from these devices against GBC - but not sure.

Tully2
08-10-2012, 07:36 AM
The house looked dowdy and like it needed a coat of paint. The kitchen looks very small. MOO

Keentoknow
08-10-2012, 07:40 AM
I was wondering if anyone knew anything about electronic surveillance?

If the Police have a warrant, can they install bugs and listening devices? Do they have to inform the occupants of what they've done? If the Police capture incriminating evidence from phone calls or conversations within the house, can they use it in a Court of Law?

I would really like to think that the QPS installed such surveillance in the senior BC home and that they could legally use any evidence from these devices against GBC - but not sure.



http://www.parliament.qld.gov.au/Documents/TableOffice/TabledPapers/2011/5311T5559.pdf


This might help.

LollyPop
08-10-2012, 08:01 AM
Thank you.
Is this the property?
http://www.realestate.com.au/property-house-qld-brookfield-408376583

Chills right down my spine and i took 2 seconds to look at the link ....No words

Nads
08-10-2012, 08:59 AM
http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/queensland/brookfield-home-of-baden-clay-is-back-on-the-rental-market-for-460-a-week/story-e6freoof-1226447852628

Someone is reading these forums.

Nads
08-10-2012, 09:03 AM
How long does Luminol last? I remember seeing a movie where the in-laws believed the son-in-law had nothing to do with family murders until they stayed in the house overnight and where the police had sprayed luminol it showed all the blood smears and splashes when they turned off the lights to go to sleep. I think it may just have been a movie based on a true story. Just thinking about the BC rental property, that's all.

No1 Ladies Detective
08-10-2012, 09:03 AM
The Courier Mail just published a brief article on the house being listed for rent. The secret is out and I admit I do feel guilty for sharing this news. I feel bad for her family if people are saying negative things about her house. From the outside it looks really nice and it is the location they would have loved, being around the corner from the school,
so living with dated decor and a small kitchen was obviously worth it for her. She did a brilliant job making do, and her priorities were elsewhere, like with raising her kids. I think that says a lot about her character.

possumheart
08-10-2012, 09:18 AM
The Courier Mail just published a brief article on the house being listed for rent. The secret is out and I admit I do feel guilty for sharing this news. I feel bad for her family if people are saying negative things about her house. From the outside it looks really nice and it is the location they would have loved, being around the corner from the school,
so living with dated decor and a small kitchen was obviously worth it for her. She did a brilliant job making do, and her priorities were elsewhere, like with raising her kids. I think that says a lot about her character.

The house would have been full of singing and cooking smells. I am sure there would have been pirouettes and cheeky conversations.

SouthAussie
08-10-2012, 10:05 AM
Century 21 are showing new ads on TV here in SA. Saw the ad titled Why Call a Century 21 Agent (in this link) during prime time TV last night, thought of Allison right away when I saw their use of sunflowers in the ad. I choose to think of it as their tribute to her.

http://www.century21.com.au/advertisements/

possumheart
08-10-2012, 10:13 AM
Century 21 are showing new ads on TV here in SA. Saw the ad titled Why Call a Century 21 Agent (in this link) during prime time TV last night, thought of Allison right away when I saw their use of sunflowers in the ad. I choose to think of it as their tribute to her.

http://www.century21.com.au/advertisements/

Thanks for the link but it actually screamed of aggressive over paced viral marketing and disgusted me. Glad it made you think of Allison but souls aren't for sale. That is the point. MOO

SouthAussie
08-10-2012, 10:19 AM
Yes .... does scream of over paced viral marketing. By association Century 21 always makes me think of the whole horrible mess now.

DrWatson
08-10-2012, 10:20 AM
How long does Luminol last? I remember seeing a movie where the in-laws believed the son-in-law had nothing to do with family murders until they stayed in the house overnight and where the police had sprayed luminol it showed all the blood smears and splashes when they turned off the lights to go to sleep. I think it may just have been a movie based on a true story. Just thinking about the BC rental property, that's all.

The Luminol itself lasts quite a while, but the reaction with the iron in blood etc only lasts for about 30 minutes or less. Also, it needs to be illuminated by "black light" i.e. UV light with the blue tint to it - as used to be used in discos etc. You remember - the light that showed up every bit of lint on your clothes and made your teeth look weird ;)

So unless there was fresh blood, and the Luminol hadn't been washed off or painted over, and somebody decided to go all retro and put up a UV light - i doubt it would be a problem :moo:

Cyansea
08-10-2012, 10:23 AM
I feel ill after looking at the photos of the house, like everyone else here.
There's been over 1,000 views which is not surprising really.
What would it have taken for GBC to get a bucket with some sugar soap it and clean the walls down for his family. The booty calls were too pressing. Poor Allison, I think she was essentially a single parent doing everything on her own. He just wanted to drive around in flash cars with a yellow jacket so he could stand out like a beacon. MOO

possumheart
08-10-2012, 10:25 AM
Yes .... does scream of over paced viral marketing. By association Century 21 always makes me think of the whole horrible mess now.

I didn't mean to sound harsh. Interesting link, honestly. But yuk.

SouthAussie
08-10-2012, 10:32 AM
That's okay ..... wasn't thinking of the ad itself, more the Century 21/sunflower thing when I posted.

Mountain Misst
08-10-2012, 05:15 PM
http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/queensland/brookfield-home-of-baden-clay-is-back-on-the-rental-market-for-460-a-week/story-e6freoof-1226447852628

Someone is reading these forums.

There are lots of people working behind the scenes Nads (am not CM) and we're all on the side of justice for Allison.

Completelyconfused
08-10-2012, 05:33 PM
Thank you.
Is this the property?
http://www.realestate.com.au/property-house-qld-brookfield-408376583

That is bizarre - it doesn't even look like they've cleaned it after taking out the furniture - why would you as the owner be happy putting pictures like that out there - not inviting at all!!

Maigret
08-10-2012, 06:49 PM
That is bizarre - it doesn't even look like they've cleaned it after taking out the furniture - why would you as the owner be happy putting pictures like that out there - not inviting at all!!

The curtains in the main bedroom are dreadful lets hope Allison had others up and they were in a cupboard for the last six years (that's what I did when renting)

Mystique75
08-10-2012, 07:10 PM
The Courier Mail just published a brief article on the house being listed for rent. The secret is out and I admit I do feel guilty for sharing this news. I feel bad for her family if people are saying negative things about her house. From the outside it looks really nice and it is the location they would have loved, being around the corner from the school,
so living with dated decor and a small kitchen was obviously worth it for her. She did a brilliant job making do, and her priorities were elsewhere, like with raising her kids. I think that says a lot about her character.

So well said, I totally agree! When I first saw the pictures, I could actually picture the girls talking and giggling, I don't know why.

This can't be easy for the owners either, they would have needed to make some tough decisions.

Tishy
08-10-2012, 07:22 PM
That's okay ..... wasn't thinking of the ad itself, more the Century 21/sunflower thing when I posted.

IMOO if those are new ads, the sunflower reference has got to be either an incredibly insensitive oversight or a sick attempt to repair the battering the company's image has taken by using a direct positive association.

Maybe they simply severely underestimated how deep and wide (yes, even in beautiful SA! Go The Crows!!!) the perception of the company's association with this goes; the public perception of a broader corporate culture of complete disregard for ethical and moral behaviour - sex with staff? Using client properties for extra-marital liaisons? Yuck. Sleazy, seedy behaviour representative of and simply perpetuating the apparently well-founded poor reputation of the industry. And of course despite their head's previous seeming 'support' - the company appears to have gone to ground - a classic error in corporate image management where convention says the best approach to a potential image disaster is to be fast and up-front in dealing with the issue. D'oh.
Pity the other poor franchisees and honourable people in the company and the broader industry who actually do care, have morals and ethics, and work in their clients' interests at all times rather than their own.

Quite aside from The Accused's apparent complete stupidity, despicable behaviour and cold, cruel selfishness...

I'm in the media industry; IMOO considered independently of the link to Allison's MURDER, I thought the ads were an interesting departure from the norm of real estate television advertising. I will find out whether the sunflower reference is a new inclusion in their advertising creative.

Even if only for my own peace of mind so I can know whether they are in fact just stupid and insensitive, or cold and calculating.

Rant over. I feel better now, thank you for your patience. :banghead:

No1 Ladies Detective
08-10-2012, 07:44 PM
On a different topic, I wanted to check this out since I have rarely looked on this forum, did the issue of the missing hand(s) get confirmed? *I have heard it from two completely different local sources- one via a solicitor and one via an ambo on the scene reportedly. *The legal thought it was to hide DNA evidence after Allison scratched Gerard. *I know this is horrible to think about, but if it is true it will all come out in the trial. *It would of course explain all the blood found in the Prado, but that would mean it was done prior to moving the body, right? *So most likely at home or outside the home, in the garden? *It does look private at the house, especially with the child care next door being vacant at night. *

The other thing I was wondering about was the fact the kids must have been home since Gerard was sending those rediculous texts early in the morning saying they were waking up, etc. *Yet the neighbours heard arguing and screaming. *The arguing and screaming made me think it was impulsive and anger driven, though it does look premeditated at least in fantasy land (since he rang the life insurance co before she went missing and had all the money problems with no other way out). *If it all blew up on that night with the arguing, then wouldn't the girls have heard, or at least there was a high risk they would hear- unless he drugged them? *If he drugged them before bedtime, then it was completely premeditated and he would be stupid to allow an argument to start and would have done many things much better- blood in the car for one. *It makes me think it was a rage and he was damn lucky the girls didn't wake up (heavy sleepers?) and he was desperate and scrambling after the fact which is why he made mistakes- despite having fantasized about doing it before hand. *But did his mum come" babysit" or did he leave the girls home alone? *When he contacted his dad, did his dad expect this call would come (if not that night then some other planned night)? *And not to be horrible, but I imagine his dad doing the hand removal since he was a hunter in Africa by all accounts with the skulls at his house, so would be desensitized to such things, at least with animals.

they'll get you
08-10-2012, 07:59 PM
So well said, I totally agree! When I first saw the pictures, I could actually picture the girls talking and giggling, I don't know why.

This can't be easy for the owners either, they would have needed to make some tough decisions.

The amount of police and forensic people swarming through the house with luminol, dusting for fingerprints & dirty shoes/boots would have been a shocker. Me too, I pictured Allison and the girls with all the good times.

alioop
08-10-2012, 08:57 PM
Hi No 1 LD, welcome to the forum. I believe we have established that the missing hand rumour is untrue. There was only some blood smears in the captiva, not a lot of blood but a lot of cleaning fluid around the smears. Also it appears the girls were home that night. We don't know what they heard or saw. Nothing we hope for their sakes.




On a different topic, I wanted to check this out since I have rarely looked on this forum, did the issue of the missing hand(s) get confirmed? *I have heard it from two completely different local sources- one via a solicitor and one via an ambo on the scene reportedly. *The legal thought it was to hide DNA evidence after Allison scratched Gerard. *I know this is horrible to think about, but if it is true it will all come out in the trial. *It would of course explain all the blood found in the Prado, but that would mean it was done prior to moving the body, right? *So most likely at home or outside the home, in the garden? *It does look private at the house, especially with the child care next door being vacant at night. *

The other thing I was wondering about was the fact the kids must have been home since Gerard was sending those rediculous texts early in the morning saying they were waking up, etc. *Yet the neighbours heard arguing and screaming. *The arguing and screaming made me think it was impulsive and anger driven, though it does look premeditated at least in fantasy land (since he rang the life insurance co before she went missing and had all the money problems with no other way out). *If it all blew up on that night with the arguing, then wouldn't the girls have heard, or at least there was a high risk they would hear- unless he drugged them? *If he drugged them before bedtime, then it was completely premeditated and he would be stupid to allow an argument to start and would have done many things much better- blood in the car for one. *It makes me think it was a rage and he was damn lucky the girls didn't wake up (heavy sleepers?) and he was desperate and scrambling after the fact which is why he made mistakes- despite having fantasized about doing it before hand. *But did his mum come" babysit" or did he leave the girls home alone? *When he contacted his dad, did his dad expect this call would come (if not that night then some other planned night)? *And not to be horrible, but I imagine his dad doing the hand removal since he was a hunter in Africa by all accounts with the skulls at his house, so would be desensitized to such things, at least with animals.

SouthAussie
08-10-2012, 09:27 PM
IMOO if those are new ads, the sunflower reference has got to be either an incredibly insensitive oversight or a sick attempt to repair the battering the company's image has taken by using a direct positive association.

Maybe they simply severely underestimated how deep and wide (yes, even in beautiful SA! Go The Crows!!!) the perception of the company's association with this goes; the public perception of a broader corporate culture of complete disregard for ethical and moral behaviour - sex with staff? Using client properties for extra-marital liaisons? Yuck. Sleazy, seedy behaviour representative of and simply perpetuating the apparently well-founded poor reputation of the industry. And of course despite their head's previous seeming 'support' - the company appears to have gone to ground - a classic error in corporate image management where convention says the best approach to a potential image disaster is to be fast and up-front in dealing with the issue. D'oh.
Pity the other poor franchisees and honourable people in the company and the broader industry who actually do care, have morals and ethics, and work in their clients' interests at all times rather than their own.

Quite aside from The Accused's apparent complete stupidity, despicable behaviour and cold, cruel selfishness...

I'm in the media industry; IMOO considered independently of the link to Allison's MURDER, I thought the ads were an interesting departure from the norm of real estate television advertising. I will find out whether the sunflower reference is a new inclusion in their advertising creative.

Even if only for my own peace of mind so I can know whether they are in fact just stupid and insensitive, or cold and calculating.

Rant over. I feel better now, thank you for your patience. :banghead:

I was surprised to see the ad Tishy, and thought that perhaps the ads were made in the USA for worldwide distribution (with appropriate voice-overs) and Century 21 just assumed that SA was far enough away from Qld to use the ads here. Little do they know that many of us in this fair land of ours have been following this tragedy closely, and will continue to do so until justice has been served. It will be a long, long time before I don't think of the Baden Clays every time I see Century 21. Not good for Century 21 as a business, I know, but that is just the way it is now.

alioop
08-10-2012, 09:42 PM
Century 21 is a huge international business and they have to continue with "business as usual" despite the damage done to their reputation at least locally, by the arrest of GBC for the murder of his wife Allison.

Maigret
08-10-2012, 09:52 PM
Century 21 is a huge international business and they have to continue with "business as usual" despite the damage done to their reputation at least locally, by the arrest of GBC for the murder of his wife Allison.

Really no different from newsagent's assistant arrested for murder- we don't stop using newsagent's

SouthAussie
08-10-2012, 09:53 PM
Yes .... I just wish the sunflowers didn't feature so predominantly in the ad ... or maybe the sunflowers aren't dominating the ad and I just noticed them so much due to following this case so closely.
Anyway .... not a big deal, just thought it was an interesting coincidence.

Mountain Misst
08-10-2012, 10:19 PM
I was surprised to see the ad Tishy, and thought that perhaps the ads were made in the USA for worldwide distribution (with appropriate voice-overs) and Century 21 just assumed that SA was far enough away from Qld to use the ads here. Little do they know that many of us in this fair land of ours have been following this tragedy closely, and will continue to do so until justice has been served. It will be a long, long time before I don't think of the Baden Clays every time I see Century 21. Not good for Century 21 as a business, I know, but that is just the way it is now.

Century 21 has advertised on TV in Q'land as well, so I have heard. Don't know about the sunflowers, however the mustard jackets were seen.

Tishy
08-10-2012, 10:38 PM
Century 21 is a huge international business and they have to continue with "business as usual" despite the damage done to their reputation at least locally, by the arrest of GBC for the murder of his wife Allison.

Absolutely right they do, and they have every right and responsibility to their clients and employees to do 'business as usual' as well. Unfortunately in this age of social media, internet and the 'global village', in corporate terms one local incident like this - particularly given the scale of the coverage both locally and internationally- can permanently tarnish the reputation of a whole company and the other people who work for it; despite the majority of those people, as in any large corporation, being without doubt honourable, normal people.

You'd think though that the high profile and the direct involvement of the local head of C21 vis a vis lent funds, press coverage and direct relationship with The Accused, that such a large company in an industry already burdened by a (however undeserving) reputation for unethical behaviour, would monitor and handle these sorts of local issues with the potential for brand damage with extreme sensitivity; be actively monitoring the situation to as to not cause further brand damage (or offence to those involved).

So much money is harvested from their franchisees and spent promoting the brand, it seems only sensible to closely protect its value. Coincidental or not, simply running a TV campaign while this murder is still in the media, ain't gonna fix that damage. Especially when its creative content has the potential (however unintended) to offend those who care.

SA has a point too; the depth of passion about this one may cause us to see meanings where there is nothing. MOO, and hope this discussion is not off-topic.... ;)

Nads
08-10-2012, 11:10 PM
That is bizarre - it doesn't even look like they've cleaned it after taking out the furniture - why would you as the owner be happy putting pictures like that out there - not inviting at all!!

The houses we have lived in and sold have looked extremely sad when the furniture was taken out. The carpet and walls can look awful, but when you are in them with furniture they look fine. My son does photography work for rental agencies and he hates to photograph places unfurnished as he says they always look like that unless they are brand new.

Rational
08-10-2012, 11:39 PM
IMOO if those are new ads, the sunflower reference has got to be either an incredibly insensitive oversight or a sick attempt to repair the battering the company's image has taken by using a direct positive association.

Maybe they simply severely underestimated how deep and wide (yes, even in beautiful SA! Go The Crows!!!) the perception of the company's association with this goes; the public perception of a broader corporate culture of complete disregard for ethical and moral behaviour - sex with staff? Using client properties for extra-marital liaisons? Yuck. Sleazy, seedy behaviour representative of and simply perpetuating the apparently well-founded poor reputation of the industry. And of course despite their head's previous seeming 'support' - the company appears to have gone to ground - a classic error in corporate image management where convention says the best approach to a potential image disaster is to be fast and up-front in dealing with the issue. D'oh.
Pity the other poor franchisees and honourable people in the company and the broader industry who actually do care, have morals and ethics, and work in their clients' interests at all times rather than their own.

Quite aside from The Accused's apparent complete stupidity, despicable behaviour and cold, cruel selfishness...

I'm in the media industry; IMOO considered independently of the link to Allison's MURDER, I thought the ads were an interesting departure from the norm of real estate television advertising. I will find out whether the sunflower reference is a new inclusion in their advertising creative.

Even if only for my own peace of mind so I can know whether they are in fact just stupid and insensitive, or cold and calculating.

Rant over. I feel better now, thank you for your patience. :banghead:Tishy
I couldn't have said it better myself. You are spot on!! IMO

SouthAussie
08-11-2012, 02:03 AM
A substantial donation towards the fund for Allison's girls would do more to lift their public profile, in my opinion. Although, they may have done that already and we haven't heard about it?

enthralled
08-11-2012, 02:43 AM
I hope that someone does rent the house and is able to make it a happy family home as no doubt Allison would have done for her girls. It would have been rather difficult for her when there was only four people committed to the family and not five. I was just very disappointed that after all the years of hard work and the love and commitment for her daughters that gbc didn't provide what his family deserved.

enthralled
08-11-2012, 03:12 AM
If the house doesn't rent can the owner try to get compensation from the bc family?
The photos don't give a good impression of the agent handling it? I thought one of the responsibilities of an agent is to follow and make sure the house is clean for the next tenant. Why haven't the bc family been made to come back and clean it up seeing as they emptied it?

ozazure
08-11-2012, 04:14 AM
If the house doesn't rent can the owner try to get compensation from the bc family?
The photos don't give a good impression of the agent handling it? I thought one of the responsibilities of an agent is to follow and make sure the house is clean for the next tenant. Why haven't the bc family been made to come back and clean it up seeing as they emptied it?

It's very sloppy work, in one photo the Venetian blinds could have been put to similar heights and made to look nice at least ... in the bathroom it is at half mast with the cord dangling. Maybe if someone had spent the $ on having the floors cleaned and the walls wiped it'd look even better again. I have to assume the market is so robust there they can afford not to bother.

Maigret
08-11-2012, 04:26 AM
It's very sloppy work, in one photo the Venetian blinds could have been put to similar heights and made to look nice at least ... in the bathroom it is at half mast with the cord dangling. Maybe if someone had spent the $ on having the floors cleaned and the walls wiped it'd look even better again. I have to assume the market is so robust there they can afford not to bother.

Must be I know when my daughter and her boyfriend were looking for a flat it was a real race to get applications in etc ( but we are in Sydney)
But yes just a bit of a wipe around shake those curtains down so they sit right and adjust all the blinds to look like they might actually work
Is it normal for a fridge to be with the rental or maybe because it's a tight spot so easier to leave one there that fits the spot
Also how weird is it to take the toilet paper ?

alioop
08-11-2012, 05:14 AM
I think a lot of rental property managers don't overly care about the presentation of the property. In Brisbane the rental vacancy rate is very low so there is competition for rentals.

I have a unit in another city and when our tenant left our agent advertised for a new tenant and didn't get any applications. After about 6 weeks we went to check it out and I was really embarrassed that the the agent had been showing people through as it was grubby. 3 family members including me spent 5 hours scrubbing it and it was rented a week later. The agent just didn't see or care about the dirty windows, blinds etc. Presentation does make a difference.

In view of the possible difficulty of re renting the BC house, one would think that all efforts would be made by the owner to present it as sparkling clean as possible.

Having said all that, I am sure that Allison would have made it a lovely happy home for her family as best she could.

From looking at real estate.com, other than a 1 bedroom cottage, it is the cheapest house to currently rent in Brookfield.

Keentoknow
08-11-2012, 05:45 AM
I think a lot of rental property managers don't overly care about the presentation of the property. In Brisbane the rental vacancy rate is very low so there is competition for rentals.

I have a unit in another city and when our tenant left our agent advertised for a new tenant and didn't get any applications. After about 6 weeks we went to check it out and I was really embarrassed that the the agent had been showing people through as it was grubby. 3 family members including me spent 5 hours scrubbing it and it was rented a week later. The agent just didn't see or care about the dirty windows, blinds etc. Presentation does make a difference.

In view of the possible difficulty of re renting the BC house, one would think that all efforts would be made by the owner to present it as sparkling clean as possible.

Having said all that, I am sure that Allison would have made it a lovely happy home for her family as best she could.

From looking at real estate.com, other than a 1 bedroom cottage, it is the cheapest house to currently rent in Brookfield.

I have landlords insurance for our units with Terri Scheer. Our rent is always covered.

https://terrischeer.com.au/campaign/property-owners-b/?cmpid=TER:GI:PI:NPS:SEM:20111024:501&2473PSEM&gclid=CI-V_daj37ECFSZKpgodtVQAgA&https://terrischeer.com.au/campaign/property-owners-b/?cmpid=TER:GI:PI:NPS:SEM:20111024:501&2473PSEM

Should the owner of GBC's rental property have this insurance he would have been covered for rental.

I have also given a copy of the Tennancy Agreements as well.

http://www.rta.qld.gov.au/Resources/Forms/Forms-for-general-tenancies/General-tenancy-agreement-Form-18a

KG1
08-11-2012, 06:04 AM
I think a lot of rental property managers don't overly care about the presentation of the property. In Brisbane the rental vacancy rate is very low so there is competition for rentals.

I have a unit in another city and when our tenant left our agent advertised for a new tenant and didn't get any applications. After about 6 weeks we went to check it out and I was really embarrassed that the the agent had been showing people through as it was grubby. 3 family members including me spent 5 hours scrubbing it and it was rented a week later. The agent just didn't see or care about the dirty windows, blinds etc. Presentation does make a difference.

In view of the possible difficulty of re renting the BC house, one would think that all efforts would be made by the owner to present it as sparkling clean as possible.

Having said all that, I am sure that Allison would have made it a lovely happy home for her family as best she could.

From looking at real estate.com, other than a 1 bedroom cottage, it is the cheapest house to currently rent in Brookfield.

I am in Melbourne and almost 3 years ago I was looking for a rental property for my youngest daughter. After looking at many houses and units at exhorbitant prices and sub standard presentation and facilities, I decided the money would be better spent on purchasing a property. (Rental properties were and still are very difficult to get here and it was/is an owner's market - charging what they like). My daughter is very happy with the property, which she shares with a house mate, pays me market rent and I negatively gear the property. I was able to use my own fully paid house as security. In this arrangement, she is not subject to losing her home if the owner sells, has any maintenance attended to promptly and I know the property is looked after. It was a good solution to the accommodation problem, apart from the mortgage.

However, one night last year, she arrived on my doorstep in tears and hysterics, after unsuccessfully trying to phone me. She asked me why I was selling the house and not telling her. When she calmed down, I was able to ascertain that she had come home from work in darkness, and found a large agent's 'For Sale' sign erected and attached to the front fence. Unable to contact the agent that night, they got a blast from me in the morning. They blamed the contractor, but it turned out that the agent's were at fault and had erected the sign in the wrong street. I was shocked that my daughter would even think that I would do such a thing as sell and not tell her, but in her shock, she was unable to consider any other explanation. We can laugh now, but not then.

Keentoknow
08-11-2012, 06:18 AM
I think a lot of rental property managers don't overly care about the presentation of the property. In Brisbane the rental vacancy rate is very low so there is competition for rentals.

I have a unit in another city and when our tenant left our agent advertised for a new tenant and didn't get any applications. After about 6 weeks we went to check it out and I was really embarrassed that the the agent had been showing people through as it was grubby. 3 family members including me spent 5 hours scrubbing it and it was rented a week later. The agent just didn't see or care about the dirty windows, blinds etc. Presentation does make a difference.

In view of the possible difficulty of re renting the BC house, one would think that all efforts would be made by the owner to present it as sparkling clean as possible.

Having said all that, I am sure that Allison would have made it a lovely happy home for her family as best she could.

From looking at real estate.com, other than a 1 bedroom cottage, it is the cheapest house to currently rent in Brookfield.

I agree that presentation does make a difference. I this case it is very poor.

ellou
08-11-2012, 06:39 AM
Hi No 1 LD, welcome to the forum. I believe we have established that the missing hand rumour is untrue. There was only some blood smears in the captiva, not a lot of blood but a lot of cleaning fluid around the smears. Also it appears the girls were home that night. We don't know what they heard or saw. Nothing we hope for their sakes.




QUOTE=No1 Ladies Detective;8250662]On a different topic, I wanted to check this out since I have rarely looked on this forum, did the issue of the missing hand(s) get confirmed? *I have heard it from two completely different local sources- one via a solicitor and one via an ambo on the scene reportedly. *The legal thought it was to hide DNA evidence after Allison scratched Gerard. *I know this is horrible to think about, but if it is true it will all come out in the trial. *It would of course explain all the blood found in the Prado, but that would mean it was done prior to moving the body, right? *So most likely at home or outside the home, in the garden? *It does look private at the house, especially with the child care next door being vacant at night. *

The other thing I was wondering about was the fact the kids must have been home since Gerard was sending those rediculous texts early in the morning saying they were waking up, etc. *Yet the neighbours heard arguing and screaming. *The arguing and screaming made me think it was impulsive and anger driven, though it does look premeditated at least in fantasy land (since he rang the life insurance co before she went missing and had all the money problems with no other way out). *If it all blew up on that night with the arguing, then wouldn't the girls have heard, or at least there was a high risk they would hear- unless he drugged them? *If he drugged them before bedtime, then it was completely premeditated and he would be stupid to allow an argument to start and would have done many things much better- blood in the car for one. *It makes me think it was a rage and he was damn lucky the girls didn't wake up (heavy sleepers?) and he was desperate and scrambling after the fact which is why he made mistakes- despite having fantasized about doing it before hand. *But did his mum come" babysit" or did he leave the girls home alone? *When he contacted his dad, did his dad expect this call would come (if not that night then some other planned night)? *And not to be horrible, but I imagine his dad doing the hand removal since he was a hunter in Africa by all accounts with the skulls at his house, so would be desensitized to such things, at least with animals.[/QUOTE]

HeyNo1 and Alioop,What if her hand or hands were removed ,away from the house?When I looked into interfering with a corpse,it stated,one disturbs a grave ,or has sex with a dead corpse or ...remove body parts,Hate too think there is any truth in that,but it will all come out later...

ellou
08-11-2012, 07:07 AM
The houses we have lived in and sold have looked extremely sad when the furniture was taken out. The carpet and walls can look awful, but when you are in them with furniture they look fine. My son does photography work for rental agencies and he hates to photograph places unfurnished as he says they always look like that unless they are brand new.

Two months ago ,I packed up and sold, my rather large home having lived there for 12 yrs.I took photos the day the removalist left ,and must admit ,it looked horrid.Furniture,paintings,pot plants can makes a huge difference.
My house was sold while I was still living there.
I tend to agree with your son.

alioop
08-11-2012, 08:36 AM
Hi Ellou, I think anything is possible but all we know of the prosecution's case at this stage is that they allege GBC killed Allison in or about their home and then he moved her body in the captiva to Kholo Creek. The interference with the corpse charge could just relate to the moving of her body.





HeyNo1 and Alioop,What if her hand or hands were removed ,away from the house?When I looked into interfering with a corpse,it stated,one disturbs a grave ,or has sex with a dead corpse or ...remove body parts,Hate too think there is any truth in that,but it will all come out later...[/QUOTE]

they'll get you
08-11-2012, 08:40 AM
I agree that presentation does make a difference. I this case it is very poor.

Possibly the photographer & agents are 'spooked' & can't wait to get outta there. As an owner I would have presented it better & with so many hits looking at this house I hope they are seen for what they are or is the demand for rentals so high they don't need to give a poop .iMOO

AAAA
08-11-2012, 09:27 AM
Ok so the rumours are coming out again. I would never negate anybody's sources, and I can only repeat mine. I have been told by the media that hands were intact (sighted) except for damage done by water creatures. There is, apparently, a little bit of truth to the chain story and that will come out in the hearing, if what I'm told is fact. And the story that it wasn't a happy household seems to ring true, if what I'm told is right. IMO.

Maigret
08-11-2012, 06:03 PM
Ok so the rumours are coming out again. I would never negate anybody's sources, and I can only repeat mine. I have been told by the media that hands were intact (sighted) except for damage done by water creatures. There is, apparently, a little bit of truth to the chain story and that will come out in the hearing, if what I'm told is fact. And the story that it wasn't a happy household seems to ring true, if what I'm told is right. IMO.

The chains? Were they used to anchor Allison somewhere? Is that what may have been seen at the roundabout?

As for not a happy household how could it be if he's off with another woman and not really hiding it apparently

Nads
08-11-2012, 07:34 PM
The chains? Were they used to anchor Allison somewhere? Is that what may have been seen at the roundabout?

As for not a happy household how could it be if he's off with another woman and not really hiding it apparently

My interpretation of what AAAA said would be that perhaps Allison was weighted down in some way. And that Allison may have had evidence of previous domestic violence?

AAAA
08-11-2012, 08:05 PM
My interpretation of what AAAA said would be that perhaps Allison was weighted down in some way. And that Allison may have had evidence of previous domestic violence?

Not sure about how chains may or may not have been used, just that they were taken. And I believe that it is the reason for the interest at Kenmore Village. IMO

Maigret
08-11-2012, 08:27 PM
My interpretation of what AAAA said would be that perhaps Allison was weighted down in some way. And that Allison may have had evidence of previous domestic violence?

The domestic violence is a rumour only isn't it? It hasn't been reported in MSM as such has it?

possumheart
08-11-2012, 08:34 PM
My current thinking that is the night before a conference with your hair done you would be trying on clothes in the walk in wardrobe and bedroom. You would probably have picked up dry cleaning which is covered in those plastic bags that are unsafe for children. No doubt at least the C21 suits were dry cleaned as it is tax deductible. GBC had a workware employment history so would absolutely have taken advantage of that perk.

DrWatson
08-11-2012, 08:40 PM
Not sure about how chains may or may not have been used, just that they were taken. And I believe that it is the reason for the interest at Kenmore Village. IMO

While I can see your point, it still strikes me as a really strange thing to do, especially in the heat of the moment. Where would they get the chains from anyway - aren't the Coles trolleys all locked up inside overnight? Woolies at the Plaza has them just outside the store - easier to get at.

But how would they get the chains off the trolleys anyway, if that is the type of chain the rumours are about? Were they carrying a bolt cutter?

It just seems REALLY odd even to think about going up there just to get a chain - there are chains at the showgrounds, I think, as well as other places.

And why chain, anyway? What's wrong with good old rope? And a Besser block or two?

And with that degree of pre-planning - to take a bolt cutter to get some chain, for example (rumour only, of course) - how does that tie in with the theory that the body was supposed to be found, for insurance purposes?

None of it makes much sense at the moment, and it is very difficult to sort rumour from fact. Really, we actually have very few facts. I'm trying to keep an open mind to all possibilities, as facts emerge.

alioop
08-11-2012, 08:42 PM
Perhaps the interference with a corpse at Kholo Creek charge could also be related to the use of chains in relation to disposing of the body. I have been wondering for some time that if the interference was just the moving of the body to Kholo Creek, then the QPS could have worded the charge something like "interference with a corpse by moving the body to Kholo Creek" . But they have left it open to possibly include something else happening AT Kholo Creek.

I would think that if you were using chains somehow that they wouldn't be involved until the body was placed somewhere. So chains in the car obtained maybe from Kenmore Village, then taken with the body or separately by someone else perhaps, to Kholo Creek. Remember the QPS searched NBC'S shed. Maybe a connection there.

AAAA
08-11-2012, 10:32 PM
I guess we'll just have to wait until September.

enthralled
08-12-2012, 12:40 AM
I'm with drwatson on the chains. That sounds like too much drama just to weigh a body down. Bad enough having murdered someone and having to find a spot to dispose of the body, let alone adding the trouble of stealing a chain. If they had a chain at home maybe they might take it in one of the cars just incase a vehicle got stuck near rivers edge.
It is rather difficult trying to figure out how and why things were done that night because I have never murdered anyone and therefore don't know how ones mind reacts and I don't ever want that first hand experience. As previously mentioned, we are all thinking with clear, calm minds and snippets of info. Goodness knows how those involved in this whole disgusting drama think.

enthralled
08-12-2012, 01:03 AM
I have landlords insurance for our units with Terri Scheer. Our rent is always covered.

https://terrischeer.com.au/campaign/property-owners-b/?cmpid=TER:GI:PI:NPS:SEM:20111024:501&2473PSEM&gclid=CI-V_daj37ECFSZKpgodtVQAgA&https://terrischeer.com.au/campaign/property-owners-b/?cmpid=TER:GI:PI:NPS:SEM:20111024:501&2473PSEM

Should the owner of GBC's rental property have this insurance he would have been covered for rental.

I have also given a copy of the Tennancy Agreements as well.

http://www.rta.qld.gov.au/Resources/Forms/Form

s-for-general-tenancies/General-tenancy-agreement-Form-18a

Keentoknow with the landlords insurance are there different time frames available for the rent to be covered e.g. Higher premium rate for more weeks or is it just a flat rate for a set time and is there an option for something terrible happening in the house and you can't seem to find new tenants?

Maigret
08-12-2012, 01:27 AM
My current thinking that is the night before a conference with your hair done you would be trying on clothes in the walk in wardrobe and bedroom. You would probably have picked up dry cleaning which is covered in those plastic bags that are unsafe for children. No doubt at least the C21 suits were dry cleaned as it is tax deductible. GBC had a workware employment history so would absolutely have taken advantage of that perk.

That's a really good point about the plastic dry cleaner bags
And I agree Allison would have been looking for something to look her best in especially if she thought TM would be there- I think Allison had been told the affair was over and she would be wanting to show TM that she was still gorgeous. Though what anyone ever saw in him is beyond me:banghead:

Mountain Misst
08-12-2012, 02:32 AM
I'm with drwatson on the chains. That sounds like too much drama just to weigh a body down. Bad enough having murdered someone and having to find a spot to dispose of the body, let alone adding the trouble of stealing a chain. If they had a chain at home maybe they might take it in one of the cars just incase a vehicle got stuck near rivers edge.
It is rather difficult trying to figure out how and why things were done that night because I have never murdered anyone and therefore don't know how ones mind reacts and I don't ever want that first hand experience. As previously mentioned, we are all thinking with clear, calm minds and snippets of info. Goodness knows how those involved in this whole disgusting drama think.

We know that there was a cold calculating mind at work before April 19, 2012 when it came to enquiring re life insurance monies. Why should it have been any different on that fatal night. IMO I doubt very much that we are dealing with a crime of passion. The timing may not have been of the killer's choosing, however much of the aftermath would have been considered by a very cold, calculating mind or possibly even a pair of cold calculating minds.

I might add though that these minds may not have been of the highest intellect - despite their 'instructing' us otherwise.

kiwi50
08-12-2012, 03:49 AM
Today I was in my local library and saw a sign "fill a bag with books for $1" they were having a cull of old books.
Next moment I saw the book "Olave Baden-Powell The Authorised biography of the World Chief Guide"
I couldn't resist filling a bag after that.
Have had a look at the pictures and saw the family tree again, GBC was shown but must have been before his brother and sister were born.
If I ever get around to reading the book, will let you know if anything interesting there.
Maybe I could send it to GBC to add to the prison library.

The Observer
08-12-2012, 03:54 AM
Honestly how do you keep a dump like that 'looking good'. That is an oxymoron if I ever came across one. You can't make a silk purse from a sow's ear - so I doubt any woman could turn that house into a majestic abode. No one is going to spend money on a rental - so new fixtures and are out of the question and the money situation was non-existant for Allison so I doubt she could have spent money on nice things that made the house look good. She would have just done her best to put up and shut up!!!!! Poor girl!

IMO I am very doubtful Allison went without. Yes her husband was a cheating scumbag but c'mon.. Hair cut and colour is expensive, girls had dancing and other extra curricular things. Let's not forget Allison went away for a week to a spa with her bestie for her birthday. I think they both spent.

I'm NOT sticking up for GBC at all, but lets not jump to conclusions how he had everything and she had nothing. Its doubtful he racked up 45k credit card debt alone. I think IMO they both liked to spend and have a certain "lifestyle". I mean it appears they lived in that house just to be within the postcode. I am in no way casting judgements on them just stating how I see it. No offense intended.

Also IMO I dont think GBC was entirely a bad businessman, he was winning awards for highest sales and such things. I think the floods were a HUGE turning point in the BC family. Possibly for the first time they'd experienced hard times. Money puts an enormous strain on a marriage and team that with an long standing relationship on the side plus god knows how many flings.

IMO I'd bet his personality did a 180 from that point, and clearly for the worst. I think the hard times the flood had caused possibly brought out a side to him, Allison especially, never knew existed sadly.

LauraMars
08-12-2012, 04:05 AM
Observer, while I agree that money worries can put a huge strain on a relationship, it doesn't usually (if ever) turn people into murderers. I think he was quite possibly always an evil sod. IMO

As for the birthday spa treat, remember that would have been fairly early days of his relationship with Toni McHugh. GBC was probably pleased that Allison went away for a week, as he would have been able to wet his wick a little easier, with nobody around to be watching him.

MOO

Keentoknow
08-12-2012, 04:08 AM
Keentoknow with the landlords insurance are there different time frames available for the rent to be covered e.g. Higher premium rate for more weeks or is it just a flat rate for a set time and is there an option for something terrible happening in the house and you can't seem to find new tenants?

Any claims that we have made have been paid within weeks be it for rent or damage.

GBC's rent was from a week to week basis it seems.

Loss of Rent

To calculate the loss of rent: Loss of rent will start from the day after the tenant's last paid rent (e.g. - if tenant is paid up to and including the 10th May, your claim will begin from the 11th May) and will be calculated until whichever of the following events occur first:
The day before the property is re-let
The expiry of the lease agreement
The date the landlord withdraws the property from the rental market
The date from which the tenant vacated if no effort is made to replace the tenant
The maximum amount claimable is reached

We will not pay more than the Landlord would be legally entitled to if the tenant had complied with their lease agreement, nor would we pay more than what could be legally recovered from the tenant.

Once the tenant has vacated complete the Long Stay Tenancies Claim Form with as much detail as possible, ensuring all of the documents listed on the back of the claim form are provided. Ensure you retain the bond and use towards non claimable items such as re-letting expenses (cleaning, gardening, rubbish removal etc) - refer to Bond Dispersal for further information.


http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/queensland/parents-of-accused-killer-gerard-baden-clay-empty-rented-brookfield-house/story-e6freoof-1226413239229

They sought a periodic lease thereafter,'' said the owner, who did not want to be named. "We've just been going from week to week.

You would be best to ring Terri Scheer re your last question. We have not been in that position.

The Observer
08-12-2012, 04:15 AM
Observer, while I agree that money worries can put a huge strain on a relationship, it doesn't usually (if ever) turn people into murderers. I think he was quite possibly always an evil sod. IMO
MOO

Oh please don't think I meant murder was from money strain. No way at all is that an excuse for what he did!! I meant merely as a change in their relationship in terms oh how he treated her.. As I beleive this is when any emotional abuse would've started. JMO.

LauraMars
08-12-2012, 05:09 AM
Observer, sorry, I see what you mean. I agree, the money strain may well have exacerbated the stress, and that in turn could have affected the way he treated her.

It's possible though, that he may have been emotionally, or even physically abusive, long before the floods, but we don't know that of course.

Actually, he began the affair in 2008, floods Jan 2011, so he was obviously not being Mr nice guy then.

LauraMars
08-12-2012, 05:16 AM
One thing that amazes me is that it was apparently about 3 years before Allison learned of the affair. I find that very surprising. Many women (not all) know very early on in the piece once their partner starts playing around, especially if it's an ongoing thing.

He must have been a really good lier I suppose.

alioop
08-12-2012, 05:21 AM
Hi observer, I think you make some good points some of which I have been thinking for a while also.

alioop
08-12-2012, 05:24 AM
One thing that amazes me is that it was apparently about 3 years before Allison learned of the affair. I find that very surprising. Many women (not all) know very early on in the piece once their partner starts playing around, especially if it's an ongoing thing.

He must have been a really good lier I suppose.

I agree LauraMars, and more so that it was happening right under Allison's nose at Century 21 where they all worked together.

Fuskier
08-12-2012, 05:30 AM
Observer, sorry, I see what you mean. I agree, the money strain may well have exacerbated the stress, and that in turn could have affected the way he treated her.

It's possible though, that he may have been emotionally, or even physically abusive, long before the floods, but we don't know that of course.

Actually, he began the affair in 2008, floods Jan 2011, so he was obviously not being Mr nice guy then.
This is interesting speculation. Just a thought. It is possible that he may have experienced disappointment that the desired male heir to carry on the Baden-Clay name had not eventuated. This may have been a disappointment for the B C Snrs. which may have added pressure on this couple. In MSM it is alleged that the affair with TMcH of four years duration may have commenced sometime after the birth of this third child IMO there were disappointments, pressures and fractures in the relationship which pre-dated the catastrophe of the floods. My opinion only, not fact.